text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Changes to the Sunnah made by the Rashidun

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Eugene van der Pijll 15:48, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Changes to the Sunnah made by the Rashidun
Striver created this article as part of his new strategy -- instead of facing community criticism of his changes to the "established" Islamic articles, he's just going to write his own Shi'a POV articles and then link them to the main articles.

This article can't be kept because even the TITLE is a Shi'a indictment of the first three caliphs -- they say that the first three caliphs made law and changed custom, whereas the community should have adhered strictly to the sunnah, or custom of the time of Muhammad. There is no way that a traditional Sunni Muslim can argue that any changes were OK -- the Sunni Muslim is going to have to deny any changes whatsoever. At which point the article just becomes a catalogue of "did" and "did not".

There is a secular, academic argument to be made about the extent of the authority ceded to the first caliphs -- best exemplified in Crone's book, God's Caliph -- but it should be made at Caliph or Sharia or possibly Ulema. Not in this abortion of an article. Zora 09:39, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

The Sunnis believe that the words and deeds of the Prophet, who is, according to the Quran (XXX, 21), the uswah hasahah (noble paradigm), must be followed in every walk of life, as they were followed by his sahabah (companions), tabi'un (followers of the companions), and atba' al-tabi'in (followers of the followers of the companions). "It is incumbent upon you," said the Prophet, "to follow my Sunnah AND the sunnah of the righteous caliphs (al-khulafa' al-rashidun) (ref)

Why do you think Ali did not get choosen as the second Khalif?

 * ''After such consultation, Abdur Rahman formed the impression that the majority of the people favored the election of Othman. Contacting the two candidates separately he put to them the question whether they would follow in the footsteps of the previous Caliphs. Ali said that he would do so as far as possible subject to his best judgment in the light of the Quran and Sunnah. Othman replied to the question in the affirmative without any reservation. Thereupon Abdur Rahman gave his verdict in favor of Othman who was acclaimed as the Caliph, and the people ordered the oath of allegiance to him. (ref)

Notice the Sunni twist to it. Ali refused to Follow Umar's changes, hence Uthman was selected.

Zora, you really know how to annoy me. Why did you start a vote for deletion when you only meant to change the name of the article?

All Sunnis that are going to vote, could you also include in your vote you view on what the Sunni schol says about the issue, Did Umar change anything in the Sunnah, Are Sunnis expected to follow the Sunnah of Muhammad (sa) AND the Sunnah of the four caliphs?

Do Sunnis regard triple talaq permisible, yes or no?

--Striver 14:54, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

 *  keep --Striver 23:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * keep The title does need changing but there is nothing wrong with the article.--Ya Ali 19:26, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This article is ridiculous. It doesn't even explain how many of the items are related to the sunna to begin with (is it sunna to exile Marwan ibn al-Hakam, or to not exile Abu Dharr Ghifari?)  It also makes incorrect claims about Sunni belief (for instance, with remarkable chutzpah, it claims that "Umar took the solitary prayer of the month of ramadhan and changed it to congretional] prayer. (Muslim, Bukhari)" when just 3 hadith down from the Muslim citation (by Abu Hurairah) is a hadith via Aisha confirming that congregational prayer was indeed practiced in Ramadan by the Prophet.  I suppose it could be NPOVed, but given that the topic is scarcely encyclopedic to begin with, why bother?  Delete. - Mustafaa 00:09, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment - somewhat NPOVed now, but still unencyclopedic (and POV magnet.) Possibly it could, to some extent, be merged to sunnah. - Mustafaa 17:43, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete as per Mustafaa. JamesBurns 08:36, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * If Zora thinks it is just "two shias insisting that Wikipedia be their soapbox", I challenge her to bring in any other Shia that would be fundamentally opposed to Striver and YaAli. Why is it OK for "the establishment" to say Shi'as deviated? Soapboxes should not be discriminatory. keep.--Zereshk 22:40, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think someone like you should be allowed to even edit Wikipedia considering your extremely aggressive and uncivilized behavior as best exemplified in Ray, Iran article (where you aggressively disallowed another contributor's correct information  into the article, and even his explanation in the discussion area wasn't enough for you) and in Talk:Afghanistan where you have behave dishonorably beyond belief.  --Paul Chiu

 * Fortunately, that decision is not yours to make. At least Zora has the integrity not to personally attack other editors. I'm just waiting for you to make that slip and attack me with a racial insult one more time so that I can have your IP address blocked for good.--Zereshk 09:15, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Merge with sunnah. Zora, I feel you need to accept that articles can include religious POVs as well as "academic" ones. So long as those POVs are sourced and are not the personal opinion of contributors, there's no problem with that. Grace Note 03:54, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * It's not that I don't want to have the Shi'a view represented. I want it represented WELL, and readably. I have incurred the anger of the three Shi'a working on Wikipedia (Striver, Zereshk, and Ya Ali) by objecting to arguments that consist mainly of hadith dumps, copyvios, and misspellings. For an example of an Islamic-related article that I rewrote recently, trying to do justice to the Shi'a view, see Fatima Zahra. Zora 05:07, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Coment

 * To exile Marwan ibn al-Hakam is Sunnah, simply because Muhammad (as) did it. But if you dont agree, we can move it down to the shia view. And of cource, in shia view, its Sunnah to not exile Abu Dharr, Muhammad (as) called him the most truthfull man betwen heaven and earth!

 * About the solitary prayer, that is why its under Shia view and not Sunni view. We Shia belive that it is not Sunnah, and Ali dispersed those who did it during his Caliphat. As goes for Muslim, whe dont consider all of it as Authentic.

There is no pov problem, except for maybe Marwan. Ill toss down Marwan to the Shia view. Is there any more POV issues left after that?

And by the whay, POV is not solved by deleting the whole article, its solved by NPOVing or in worst case, deleting. I know that Sunni dont like to see that list. But not liking the list does not warant a deletion.

--Striver 00:16, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Comments
What we've got here is two Shi'a insisting that Wikipedia be their soapbox, that they get to have articles devoted to their "personalistic" view of history, in which everything is reduced to piety and personality. The good pious Muslims followed Ali, and were persecuted for it; the bad worldly Muslims followed the Sunni path. Anyone who did not choose Ali was a bad person, which is to be shown by oral traditions (possibly folktales or bazaar gossip) collected hundreds of years later, showing the Sunni leaders as monsters of depravity and hatred. Really -- this is history as comic book material. It IS possible to present history from a Shi'a viewpoint without turning it all into personalities. I was quite impressed with Reza Aslan's 2005 book No God But God, which is based on extensive academic research, and shows the early Muslims as making choices based on conflicting interpretations of Islam, views of how the political process was to be managed, etc. Aslan presents a Shi'a POV without turning it into hagiography/demonology.

The insistence on stuffing this material into a frame which ASSUMES that innovation is bad is also inherently POV. This is the POV of current traditionalist Islam, of "fundamentalis", of Wahabi, Salafi, and Islamist Muslims -- but it is not the POV of non-Muslims, or of Muslim liberals and reformers. Part of the material in the article could go into the Shi'a Islam article, as describing Shi'a belief, and part of it could go into Caliph, discussing early Muslim views of the authority of the caliph.

Crone makes a good argument that current-day Muslims fail to fully understand the fluid situation in the early days of the Islamic empire, in which the caliphs believed themselves to be entitled to deliver legal judgements and set precedents just as Muhammad had -- because they were his successors, and wielded his authority. Crone also points to the tremendous challenges faced by the new Islamic empire, in dealing with situations that were completely outside anything faced by Muhammad and raised questions not easily or quickly answered. The response, as many secular, academic scholars have observed, was to grant the early caliphs a great deal of legal authority, and also to adopt customary Byzantine and Sassanid law.

Crone is not the ultimate authority, and there are many academic historians who would disagree with her, but there is a dimension of this argument of which Striver and Ya Ali seem to be unaware. The article is basically a traditionalist Shi'a indictment of the first three caliphs. It deserves to be presented in Wikipedia, but in context, and in articles where alternate POVs can be presented. Zora 23:00, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

 * If you feel you it, go ahead and add all that to the article. But fact stands: Shia and Sunni agree that Umar reinstituded Triple talaq, fact stands: Shia belive he banned Nikah Mut'ah. Fact stands: That belife have the right to be represented. And since they are related, in a list.

 * You want to bring a socio-thoelogical-political-Crone-Zora aspect to it: Be my guest. But the list stands.

 * --Striver 23:30, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

coment actually, i now also oppose to change the name of the article. SeeTalk:Changes to the Sunnah made by the Rashidun, it proves that Umar was acting beliving that he was in charge of the Sunnah. So the name of the article is accurate.

--Striver 02:11, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Petite-Synthe

Petite-Synthe (Klein-Sinten) is a former commune of the Nord département in northern France.

The commune of Saint-Pol-sur-Mer was created in 1877, by its territory being detached from Petite-Synthe. In 1971 the commune of Dunkerque absorbed Petite-Synthe and Rosendaël. In 1980, a large part of Petite-Synthe was detached from Dunkerque and merged into Grande-Synthe.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Petite-Synthe


text:
Ocean's Eleven

Ocean's Eleven is a 2001 American heist comedy film directed by Steven Soderbergh from a screenplay by Ted Griffin. The first installment in the Ocean's film trilogy, it is a remake of the 1960 Rat Pack film of the same name. The film features an ensemble cast including George Clooney, Matt Damon, Andy García, Brad Pitt, Julia Roberts, Casey Affleck, Scott Caan, Elliott Gould, Bernie Mac, and Carl Reiner. The story follows friends Danny Ocean (Clooney) and Rusty Ryan (Pitt), who plan a heist of $160million from casino owner Terry Benedict (García), the lover of Ocean's ex-wife Tess (Roberts).

Ocean's Eleven was theatrically released in the United States on December7, 2001, by Warner Bros. Pictures. The film received positive reviews from critics and was a major box-office hit, grossing $450.7million worldwide and becoming the fifth-highest-grossing film of 2001. Soderbergh directed two sequels, Ocean's Twelve in 2004 and Ocean's Thirteen in 2007. Ocean's 8, a spin-off with an all-female lead cast, was released in 2018.

Plot
Professional thief Danny Ocean is released from a New Jersey prison after four years and travels to Los Angeles to reunite with his friend and colleague Rusty Ryan. The pair travel to Las Vegas to secure the financial backing of their wealthy friend Reuben Tishkoff to undertake a multi-million dollar heist in which they will rob three casinos owned by Tishkoff's ruthless rival Terry Benedict: the Bellagio, the Mirage, and the MGM Grand. Legally required to have enough cash available to cover all their patrons' bets, Danny estimates that on the eve of an upcoming high-profile boxing match, the casinos will hold over $150   million in an underground vault guarded by virtually unassailable security measures and systems. Having been forced out of his casino by Benedict, Tishkoff readily agrees to participate.

Danny and Rusty recruit six former acquaintances: con man Frank Catton, aging and retired con man Saul Bloom, auto specialists Virgil and Turk Malloy, explosives expert Basher Tarr, and surveillance technician Livingston Dell, as well as acrobat Yen and pickpocket Linus Caldwell. Each member is assigned to infiltrate or surveil the Bellagio to learn about the security, the routines, the behaviors of the casino staff, and the building itself. They also build a precise replica of the vault to practice the heist. Linus is tasked with tracking Benedict himself, eventually uncovering that he is dating Danny's ex-wife Tess. Furious at Danny's deception and believing he is motivated mainly by reconnecting with Tess, Rusty tells him to call off the heist, but Danny refuses. Danny later meets with Tess, who is still hurt by their former relationship, and Benedict who has Danny barred from his casinos.

The team commence the heist while Danny enters the Bellagio and Benedict has him detained in a surveillance-free room to be beaten by Bruiser, who is secretly working with Danny. Danny uses the room's vent to reach the vault elevator and meet up with Linus who has infiltrated the casino as a gambling official. Meanwhile, Saul convinces Benedict to secure a briefcase of jewels—actually disguised explosives—in the vault, while Virgil and Turk smuggle Yen into the vault in a casino trolley. Basher triggers a stolen EMP device which disables electricity across Las Vegas including the laser grid protecting the elevator shaft, allowing Danny and Linus to descend to the vault entrance. The pair neutralize the guards and, with Yen, use Saul's "jewels" to destroy the vault locks and secure the cash.

Rusty calls Benedict and reveals the robbery, blackmailing him to surrender half the cash to a van waiting outside or they will blow up all of the money. Verifying the compromised vault by camera, Benedict complies but has his men pursue the van while summoning a SWAT team to retake the vault. During the SWAT team's assault the explosives are detonated, destroying the remaining half of the cash while the thieves seemingly escape. Meanwhile, the van is discovered to be under remote control and the money bags filled with advertisements. Benedict dismisses the SWAT team before realizing that the footage he witnessed was manipulated as the vault in the video lacked the Bellagio logo on its floor; the footage was created using the team's replica vault.

It is revealed that, after intercepting the 911 call, the team entered the casino disguised as SWAT members and left the vault unhindered with duffel bags containing over $160   million in cash. Danny returns to the secure room before Benedict arrives to confront him. Tess receives a call telling her to watch her TV which shows a surveillance camera feed of Danny tricking Benedict into admitting that he would give up Tess in exchange for the money's return. Unable to connect Danny to the heist, Benedict instead has him arrested for violating his parole by leaving New Jersey; Danny and Tess reconcile before he is taken away. As dawn breaks, the remaining team contemplate their victory in front of the Fountains of Bellagio before going their separate ways.

Several months later, Danny is released from prison and picked up by Rusty and Tess. They drive off, followed by Benedict's men.

The Eleven
In order of recruitment:

 * George Clooney as Danny Ocean, an ex-con who establishes a heist
 * Bernie Mac as Frank Catton, a discredited croupier and con man
 * Brad Pitt as Robert "Rusty" Ryan, Danny's friend and partner in crime
 * Elliott Gould as Reuben Tishkoff, a former casino owner who is Danny's wealthy friend
 * Casey Affleck as Virgil Malloy, a gifted mechanic
 * Scott Caan as Turk Malloy, a gifted mechanic and Virgil's brother
 * Eddie Jemison as Livingston Dell, an electronics and surveillance expert
 * Don Cheadle as Basher Tarr, an explosives expert
 * Qin Shaobo as "The Amazing" Yen, an acrobat
 * Carl Reiner as Saul Bloom, an elderly con man
 * Matt Damon as Linus Caldwell, a pickpocket who aids Danny

Others

 * Andy García as Terry Benedict, the owner of the robbed casinos and Reuben's rival
 * Julia Roberts as Tess Ocean, Danny's ex-wife and Terry's girlfriend
 * Scott L. Schwartz as Bruiser, a huge bruiser working with Ocean

Cameos

 * Five television actors make cameos as themselves, being taught how to play poker by Rusty:
 * Holly Marie Combs
 * Topher Grace
 * Joshua Jackson
 * Barry Watson
 * Shane West
 * Jerry Weintraub as Denny Shields, a high-roller gambler
 * Siegfried & Roy as themselves
 * Wayne Newton as himself
 * Henry Silva and Angie Dickinson as themselves (both appeared in the original film)
 * Eydie Gormé and her husband Steve Lawrence as themselves
 * Boxers Wladimir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis as themselves
 * Boxing commentator Larry Merchant and sportscaster James Lampley as themselves

Production
In 1987, David Permut, who had produced a film adaptation of the 1950s TV show Dragnet, declared his intention to remake the 1960 film, but the project never materialized. In January 2000, Warner Bros. was reported to be moving forward with Steven Soderbergh on development of an Ocean's Eleven remake, starring George Clooney, Brad Pitt, and Julia Roberts. Johnny Depp was being considered for Linus Caldwell, while Luke and Owen Wilson were in discussions to play the Malloy twins. The Wilson brothers had to decline due to their commitment to The Royal Tenenbaums. Mike Myers, Bruce Willis, Ewan McGregor, Alan Arkin, and Ralph Fiennes were considered for roles but also ended up dropping out. Filmmakers Joel and Ethan Coen were considered as replacements for the Wilson brothers, but Soderbergh cast Caan and Affleck instead. Mark Wahlberg was originally cast as Caldwell, but left in favor of starring in another remake, Planet of the Apes, and was subsequently replaced with Damon. Clooney's commitment to Ocean's Eleven forced him to turn down the lead role in Unfaithful.

Ocean's Eleven was filmed between February11 and June7, 2001, primarily in Las Vegas, but with some scenes shot in New Jersey, Chicago, Los Angeles, Florida, and Burbank. As producer Jerry Weintraub was friends with the Bellagio's owner, Kirk Kerkorian, the production team was granted permission to film there; also, the cast stayed at the hotel during the shoot. The "pinch" used in the film to black out power in Las Vegas was based on the real-life Sandia Z-pinch. However, the effect shown is unrealistic, as no device of the size shown could achieve that effect.

Cheadle was uncredited for his role. In an interview, Cheadle said, "there was some stuff that happened behind the scenes that I didn’t like how it went down, so I just said, 'Take my name off it.'"

Music

 * "Cha Cha Cha" written by James D'Angelo, Leo Johns, Jimmy Kelleher, Marc Lanjean, Henri Salvador and Marcel Stellman; performed by Jimmy Luxury and The Tommy Rome Orchestra
 * "The Projects" (P Jays) written by Dan Nakamura, Paul Huston, Tarin Jones and Trugoy The Dove (as David Jolicoeur); performed by Handsome Boy Modeling School" featuring De La Soul (as Trugoy (De La Soul)) and Del (as Del Tha Funkee Homosapien)
 * "Papa Loves Mambo" written by Al Hoffman, Dick Manning and Bickley Reichner; performed by Perry Como
 * "Take My Breath Away" written by Giorgio Moroder and Tom Whitlock; performed by Berlin
 * "Spirit in the Sky" written and performed by Norman Greenbaum
 * "Blues in the Night" written by Harold Arlen and Johnny Mercer; performed by Quincy Jones
 * "Caravan" written by Duke Ellington and Juan Tizol; performed by Arthur Lyman
 * "A Little Less Conversation" written by Billy Strange and Mac Davis; performed by Elvis Presley
 * "Gritty Shaker" written and performed by David Holmes
 * "Spanish Flea" written by Julius Wechter; performed by Powerpack Orchestra
 * "Misty" composed by Erroll Garner; performed by Liberace
 * "Dream, Dream, Dream" written by Jimmy McHugh, Jean Pierre Mottier, Mitchell Parish and Jeannine Melle; performed by Percy Faith and His Orchestra
 * "Moon River" written by Henry Mancini and Johnny Mercer; performed by Liberace
 * "Theme From A Summer Place" written by Max Steiner
 * "Theme for Young Lovers" written and performed by Percy Faith and His Orchestra
 * "69 Police" written by David Holmes, Phil Mossman, Darren Morris, Aldo Tagliapietra, Stanley Walden and Giovanni Smeraldi; performed by David Holmes (remix of the Le Orme song Ad Gloriam)
 * "Clair de Lune" written by Claude Debussy and arranged by Lucien Cailliet; performed by The Philadelphia Orchestra; conducted by Eugene Ormandy

Critical response
On review aggregator website Rotten Tomatoes, the film holds an approval rating of based on  reviews, with an average rating of. The site's critical consensus reads, "As fast-paced, witty, and entertaining as it is star-studded and coolly stylish, Ocean's Eleven offers a well-seasoned serving of popcorn entertainment." On Metacritic the film has a weighted average score of 74 out of 100, based on 35 critics, indicating "generally favorable reviews". Audiences polled by CinemaScore gave the film an average grade of "B+" on an A+ to F scale.

People magazine called the film "pure fun from start to finish," and included it in its end-of-year Best of Screen list. Newsweek said Ocean's Eleven "bounces along with finger-snapping high spirits," and said that while Soderbergh has "made deeper films, ...this carefree caper movie is nothing to sneeze at." Time magazine's reviewer Richard Corliss criticized the film, saying it "doesn't offer much." In a poll during November 2008, Empire magazine called Ocean's Eleven the 500th best film on The 500 Greatest Movies of All Time. For Don Cheadle's role in this film, he needed to learn to speak with a cockney accent, which drew harsh reviews from critics and is recognized as being one of the worst accents in film. Cheadle commented on his accent, saying "My British friends ... tell me [it's] a truly terrible London accent in Ocean's Thirteen. You know something, I really worked on that accent. Went to London, spoke to people, got to know it... my agent said it was fine, so I'm stuck with this thing. Even though everyone laughs at me. So I sacked her, of course".

Entertainment Weekly put "The Ocean's Eleven heist scene" on its end-of-the-decade, "best-of" list, saying, "Featuring three impregnable Vegas casinos and 11 ring-a-ding criminals, Steven Soderbergh's 2001 roll of the dice provided the most winning robbery sequence of the decade."

Box office
Ocean's Eleven had a budget of about $85 million. On its opening weekend, it grossed an estimate of $38.1 million and was the top box-office draw for the weekend, dethroning Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. The film surpassed What Women Want to have the highest December opening weekend. That record was very brief, as it was quickly surpassed by The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring two weeks later. Moreover, Ocean's Eleven had the largest opening weekend for both a Brad Pitt film and a Julia Roberts film, beating Interview with the Vampire and Runaway Bride simultaneously. It also had the third-highest opening weekend for any film starring George Clooney, behind Batman & Robin and The Perfect Storm. The film grossed $183,418,150 in the United States, $267,311,379 overseas, totaling $450,728,529 worldwide.

Home media
Ocean's Eleven was released on VHS and DVD on May 7, 2002.

Sequels
Soderbergh directed two sequels, Ocean's Twelve in 2004 and Ocean's Thirteen in 2007, which make up the Ocean's Trilogy.

An Ocean's film with an all-female cast led by Sandra Bullock, titled Ocean's 8, was released June 8, 2018. It was conceived by producer Jerry Weintraub, Soderbergh and Clooney. Olivia Milch and Gary Ross were writer of the screenplay, and director respectively. Cate Blanchett, Helena Bonham Carter, Anne Hathaway, Sarah Paulson, Rihanna, Mindy Kaling and Awkwafina made up the ensemble cast.

Other adaptations
Takarazuka Revue adapted the movie as a musical in 2011–2012 in Japan (Takarazuka Grand Theater; Tokyo Takarazuka Theater). The production was performed by Star Troupe and the cast included Reon Yuzuki as Danny Ocean, Nene Yumesaki as Tess Ocean and Shio Suzumi as Rusty Ryan.

The 2014 Bollywood film Happy New Year draws heavily on the plot of Ocean's Eleven, with Shah Rukh Khan starring as the protagonist.

title: Ocean's Eleven


text:
User:Bcatt

=All About Me!=

Interests
Africa; Agriculture; Anthropology; Art; Astrology; Astronomy; Australia; Biochemistry; Biography; Biology; Botany; Business; Canada; Cats; Chemistry; Child development; Classics; Communication; Computer Science; Cooking; Cosmology; Current Events; Cycles; Dance; Developmental biology; Drugs and Drug addiction; Ecology; Education; Engineering; Esoterics; Film; Games (board, card, computer); Gender studies and history; Genealogy; Geography; Geology; History; Human development; Ireland; Journalism; Labour Movement; Languages; Latin America; Law; Linguistics; Literature; Marketing and Propaganda; Medicine; Music; Mythology; Neuroscience; New Zealand; Nutrition; Personal development; Philosophy; Photographic film development; Photography; Physics; Poetry; Political science/Political Philosophy; Psychology; Religion; Scotland; Sign Language; Sociology; Surrealism; Theater; Transhumanism; Unusual topics; Utopia.

Areas of Knowledge
Advertising and Marketing; Art (primarily aesthetics); Astrology; Astronomy (limited); Business (entrepreneurial); Canada; Cats; Child Development; Classics (limited); Communication (limited); Computer Science (media and some programming languages); Cooking (limited); Cosmology; Cycles; Developmental biology (limited); Drugs and Drug addiction; Education (limited); Esoterics; Film (limited); Gender studies and history; Human development; Journalism (limited); Law (limited); Linguistics (limited); Literature (limited); Medicine (limited); Music; Mythology (limited); Neuroscience (limited); Nutrition (especially pre- and post-natal); Personal development; Pharmacology (limited); Philosophy (somewhat limited); Photographic film development; Photography (professional); Physics (limited); Poetry; Political Philosophy; Proofreading; Psychology; Religion (limited); Sociology; Surrealism; Unusual topics; Utopia.

There Are Two Kinds of People In the World: Those Who Put People Into Categories and Those Who Don't (TATKPIW:TWPPIC&TWD)
Canadians; Wiki-age.

title: User:Bcatt


text:
A Gathering of the Tribes

A Gathering of the Tribes was a two-day music and culture festival organized by Ian Astbury and promoter Bill Graham, held in California in October 1990. It is considered the precursor to the Lollapalooza touring festivals of the 1990s, an opinion shared by Astbury himself. The festival was held at the Shoreline Amphitheatre in Mountain View on October 6 and the Pacific Amphitheatre in Costa Mesa on October 7. The event was intended to raise money for and awareness of Native-American-related causes. A performance by the American Indian Dance Theatre preceded the festival each day. The concert grounds also hosted tents for Act Up, Amnesty International, Greenpeace, Rock the Vote, and local animal rights organizations.

The artists featured were Soundgarden, Ice-T, Indigo Girls, Queen Latifah, Joan Baez, Steve Jones, Michelle Shocked, Iggy Pop, The Cramps, London Quireboys, The Mission UK and Public Enemy. The Los Angeles Times music critic described Canadian band Crash Vegas and UK band The Charlatans UK as the festival's "least-known performers", both deserving "fuller hearings in more intimate surroundings". Iggy Pop's performance was described as "restrained" compared to his typical "combustive live" performances. According to Astbury, the diversity of bands demonstrated that "us and them doesn't exist any more".

Because of violence at previous Public Enemy concerts, Public Enemy did not appear on the bill for the concert in Costa Mesa. When addressing the crowd, Ice-T, Queen Latifah, and Astbury all stated that Public Enemy was not at the festival owing to "pressure from local authorities", a claim denied by the Costa Mesa police chief. A show organizer stated that Public Enemy did not appear because of a scheduling conflict. Lenny Kravitz, also on the bill, did not perform that day. Astbury had wanted other performers to be part of the program, including Guns N' Roses, Tracy Chapman, Living Colour, Ziggy Marley, and Julian Lennon, but they could not participate because of previous commitments. He also excluded his own band, The Cult, from performing because he "didn't want people to think we were using this to boost our career".

Both concerts sold out, with over 10,000 attendees for each, but Astbury lost around $50,000 on the festival. Some of the tents for the advocacy groups drew long lineups from attendees, who signed up to support the causes.

A Gathering of the Tribes was revisited in 1991 but this time as a traveling festival that was to visit multiple venues, with a bill featuring X, Fishbone, Steve Earle, EPMD, Hoodoo Gurus, Primus, and King's X, among others. However, this version of the tour was a financial failure and was cancelled before all the dates could be completed.

Inspiration
Astbury was inspired to start A Gathering of the Tribes after having dinner with a Native American man whom he met in North Dakota while on a 1989 tour with Metallica. The man told Astbury that he was planning to study resource management at college in order to help purify his tribe's drinking water, then asked Astbury what he was doing for his community. Astbury had no answer for the man, then began to think about running a music festival. It led to the creation of a music festival "of contrasting stylists ranging from hard rock to folk to rap", because he wanted to oppose the musical and racial segregation prominent in pop music at the time. Astbury had considered hosting the concert in Monterey, as he had been interested in the 1967 Monterey Pop Festival.

title: A Gathering of the Tribes


text:
Muhammad Mian Soomro

Muhammad Mian Soomro (born 19 August 1950) is a Pakistani politician, banker and senator who has also served as the federal minister for Privatization. Born to a Native Sindhi family originally linked to the Soomra dynasty, he previously served as the chairman of the Senate from 2003 to 2009, the Caretaker prime minister of Pakistan from 2007 to 2008, and the acting president of Pakistan from 18 August 2008 to 9 September 2008.

Soomro hails from an influential Sindhi feudal family that has been active in national politics since 1923. His father, the late Ahmed Mian Soomro, was Deputy Speaker of the West Pakistan Assembly and a member of the Senate and helped to establish the Senate Committee Systems. He is the grandson of another politician, Khan Bahadur Haji Moula Bux Soomro. He was Caretaker Prime Minister of Pakistan from 16 November 2007 to 25 March 2008 to oversee the 2008 General Elections and became the 5th Acting President of Pakistan upon the resignation of Pervez Musharraf on 18 August 2008, both by virtue of his office of the Chairman of the Senate.

Professional life
An internationally recognised professional banker, Soomro held various top positions both at home and abroad in national and international organisations.

He has also worked in important positions for major banks:

 * Bank of America
 * general manager and chief executive officer of International Bank of Yemen
 * Faysal Islamic Bank of Bahrain
 * MCB Bank
 * Zarai Taraqiati Bank Limited formally known as Agriculture Development Bank of Pakistan
 * Federal Bank of Cooperatives
 * President, National Bank of Pakistan

Soomro earned great recognition for his achievements during his time with these organisations. He was also instrumental in the establishment of microcredit banking in Pakistan.

He also held a position at the board of directors of Shell Pakistan Ltd.

Governorship
Soomro's public service role started with his appointment as the Governor of Sindh on 25 May 2000.

Chairman of the Senate
Soomro resigned from the office of Sindh Governor on 26 December 2002 to contest the Senate elections. He was elected as a Senator on 23 February 2003 and was subsequently elected as Chairman of the Senate on 12 March 2003.

Caretaker Prime Minister
Soomro was appointed as caretaker prime minister on 15 November 2007, at the expiration of the term of the previous prime minister, Shaukat Aziz, ahead of a new parliamentary election. On 16 November, Soomro was sworn in as prime minister by President Pervez Musharraf. His term ended on 25 March 2008, when Syed Yousaf Raza Gilani was sworn in as prime minister.

President of Pakistan
As required by the constitution, Soomro (in his position as Chairman of the Senate) automatically became President on 18 August 2008, upon the resignation of Pervez Musharraf. The constitution also required that a new President be elected by Parliament within 30 days.

Asif Ali Zardari was elected President and subsequently sworn in on 9 September 2008, succeeding Soomro.

Trustee of ILM Trust and Member of UMT Board of Governors
Soomro is a trustee of ILM Trust and member of UMT Board of Governors. UMT is a non-profit private-sector research university located in Lahore, Pakistan. In the recent QS Rankings, UMT was placed amongst the Top 500 universities of Asia.

title: Muhammad Mian Soomro


text:
Mortmain

Mortmain is the perpetual, inalienable ownership of real estate by a corporation or legal institution; the term is usually used in the context of its prohibition. Historically, the land owner usually would be the religious office of a church; today, insofar as mortmain prohibitions against perpetual ownership still exist, it refers most often to modern companies and charitable trusts. The term mortmain is derived from Mediaeval Latin mortua manus, literally "dead hand", through Old French morte main (in modern French, mainmorte).

History
During the Middle Ages in Western European countries such as England, the Roman Catholic Church acquired a substantial amount of real estate. As the Church and religious orders were each recognised as a legal person separate from the office holder who administered the Church land (such as the abbot or the bishop), the land would not escheat on the death of the holder, or pass by inheritance, as the Church and the religious orders would not die. The land was held in perpetuity. This was in contrast to feudal practice in which the nobility would hold land granted by the king in return for service, especially service in war. Over time, the Church gained a large share of land in many feudal states; this was a cause of increasing tension between the Church and the Crown.

In 1279, and again in 1290, Statutes of Mortmain were enacted under King Edward I to impose limits on the Church's holding of property, although limits on the Church's power to hold land are also found in earlier statutes, including Magna Carta (1215) and the Provisions of Westminster (1259). The broad effect of these provisions was that the authorisation of the Crown was needed before the land could vest perpetually in a corporation. As an example of the response of the institutions, the chartulary of Chertsey Abbey records that "shortly after one of these statutes vulgarly called Mortmain" 11 acres in Ash, Surrey, were held by Robert de Zathe with sufficient common pasture for his flocks and herds, while Geoffrey de Bacsete and his brother William had 28 acres.

Corporate mortmain is legal in most countries today. In a person's making of their own trusts, provisions and settlements, to newly proposed founded bodies or groups of persons, there are commonly still laws against perpetuities, preventing their "dead hand" from prevailing more than, for example, 80 years away and there is the common law rule in Saunders v Vautier enabling all of the adult beneficiaries to draw special legal agreements together to override any historic provisions. See rule against perpetuities—each rule varies by jurisdiction.

Mortmain was a key underlying interdiction in legal history, contextualising much early case law. The decision of Thornton v Howe held that a trust for publishing the writings of Joanna Southcott was charitable, being for the "advancement of religion". This decision is often held up as setting the bar extremely low in determining whether a charity is for the advancement of religion. At the time of her trust-making the statutes against mortmain were in force and having not met the narrow, high-authority formalities for such a trust to be valid it was void, rather than imbuing it with special privileges in relation to taxation and viability. Identifying the trust within the general run of mortmain forbiddance shapes the case's reasoning (ratio).

Etymology
William Blackstone wrote, in 1765, "The reason of [this] appellation Sir Edward Coke offers many conjectures; but there is one which seems more probable than any that he has given us: viz. that these purchases being usually made by ecclesiastical bodies, the members of which (being professed) were reckoned dead persons in law, land therefore, holden by them, might with great propriety be said to be held in mortua manu. [in dead hands]."

title: Mortmain


text:
Grande-Synthe

Grande-Synthe (Groot-Sinten) is a commune in the Nord department in the Nord-Pas de Calais region in northern France.

It is the third-largest suburb of the city of Dunkerque (Dunkirk) and lies adjacent to it on the west.

History
In 1980, a large part of Petite-Synthe was detached from Dunkerque and included in Grande-Synthe.

International relations
Grande-Synthe is twinned with:
 * 🇵🇱 Suwałki in Poland

Personalities

 * Remy Vercoutre, footballer
 * Lucas Pouille, tennis player

Transport

 * Gare de Grande-Synthe railway station.

title: Grande-Synthe


text:
List of Orthoptera and allied insects of Great Britain

The following is a list of the species of grasshopper, cricket and allied insects recorded from Britain. The insect orders covered by this list are:
 * the Orthoptera - Grasshoppers and crickets
 * the Dermaptera - earwigs
 * the Blattodea - cockroaches

This article lists the native species only. A number of other species have been found in the wild as vagrants or accidental introductions. Many of the Orthopteran common names were synthesised from older sources or coined where necessary by Dr. DR Ragge.

Family Tettigoniidae (bush-crickets)

 * 1) Oak bush-cricket Meconema thalassinum
 * 2) Southern oak bush-cricket Meconema meridionale (since 2001)
 * 3) Great green bush-cricket Tettigonia viridissima
 * 4) Wart-biter Decticus verrucivorus
 * 5) Dark bush-cricket Pholidoptera griseoaptera
 * 6) Grey bush-cricket Platycleis albopunctata
 * 7) Bog bush-cricket Metrioptera brachyptera
 * 8) Roesel's bush-cricket Roeseliana roeselii
 * 9) Long-winged conehead Conocephalus fuscus
 * 10) Short-winged Conehead Conocephalus dorsalis
 * 11) Speckled bush-cricket Leptophyes punctatissima

Super-family Grylloidea
Family Gryllidae Family Mogoplistidae Family Trigonidiidae
 * 1) House cricket Acheta domesticus
 * 2) Field cricket Gryllus campestris
 * 1) Scaly cricket Pseudomogoplistes squamiger
 * 1) Wood cricket Nemobius sylvestris

Family Gryllotalpidae (mole-crickets)

 * 1) Mole cricket Gryllotalpa gryllotalpa

Family Tetrigidae (groundhoppers)

 * 1) Cepero's groundhopper Tetrix ceperoi
 * 2) Slender groundhopper Tetrix subulata
 * 3) Common groundhopper Tetrix undulata

Family Acrididae (grasshoppers)

 * 1) Large marsh grasshopper Stethophyma grossum - rare and restricted to the New Forest and Dorset
 * 2) Stripe-winged grasshopper Stenobothrus lineatus
 * 3) Lesser mottled grasshopper Stenobothrus stigmaticus (Isle of Man only)
 * 4) Woodland grasshopper Omocestus rufipes
 * 5) Common green grasshopper Omocestus viridulus
 * 6) Field grasshopper Chorthippus brunneus
 * 7) Heath grasshopper Chorthippus vagans
 * 8) Lesser marsh grasshopper Chorthippus albomarginatus
 * 9) Meadow grasshopper Pseudochorthippus parallelus
 * 10) Rufous grasshopper Gomphocerippus rufus
 * 11) Mottled grasshopper Myrmeleotettix maculatus

Family Blattellidae

 * 1) Dusky cockroach Ectobius lapponicus
 * 2) Tawny cockroach Ectobius pallidus
 * 3) Lesser cockroach Capraiellus panzeri

Family Spongiphoridae

 * Lesser earwig Labia minor

Family Forficulidae

 * 1) Short-winged earwig Apterygida media
 * 2) Chelidurella acanthopygia
 * 3) Common earwig Forficula auricularia
 * 4) Lesne's earwig Forficula lesnei


text:
Debaser

"Debaser" is a song by American alternative rock band Pixies, released in April 1989 as the opening track on their album Doolittle and later as a promotional single following the dissolution of the band.

Releases
The band's 1991 "Head On" single includes a live version of "Debaser" recorded in Chicago on August 9, 1989. The album version of the song was later released as a single in 1997 to promote the Death to the Pixies compilation. A live recording from December 16, 2004, in New York City appears on "Hey" – Live Pixies 2004–2005.

A version of this song was also used in the game DJ Hero 2, remixed with The Prodigy's song "Invaders Must Die"; this mix is available as downloadable content for the game.

Lyrics and meaning
The lyrics of "Debaser" are based on Un Chien Andalou, a 1929 short film by Luis Buñuel and Salvador Dalí. The film includes a scene in which a woman's eye is apparently cut open by a razor, which is referenced in the lyric "slicin' up eyeballs." According to frontman and songwriter Black Francis:

 * I wish Buñuel were still alive. He made this film about nothing in particular. The title itself is a nonsense. With my stupid, pseudo-scholar, naive, enthusiast, avant-garde-ish, amateurish way to watch Un chien andalou (twice), I thought: 'Yeah, I will make a song about it.' [He sings:] "Un chien andalou"... It sounds too French, so I will sing "un chien andalusia", it sounds good, no?

The title "Debaser" references the fact that Un Chien Andalou "debases" contemporary morality and standards of art: "I guess it means: one who debases. A debaser. It was an attempt to introduce a new word into the lexicon, but I don’t think it’s been successful, else I would have heard about it."

In the earliest version of the song, the line "un chien andalusia" was originally "Shed, Apollonia!", a reference to a scene from Purple Rain.

Track listing
Debaser – Demo
 * 1) "Debaser" (Demo) – 2:59
 * 2) "No. 13 Baby" (Demo) – 3:10

Debaser – Live
 * 1) "Debaser" (Live in Chicago, August 10, 1989) – 2:44
 * 2) "Holiday Song" (Live in Chicago, August 10, 1989) – 2:10
 * 3) "Cactus" (Live in Chicago, August 10, 1989) – 2:27
 * 4) "Nimrod's Son" (Live in Chicago, August 10, 1989) – 3:08

Debaser – Studio
 * 1) "Debaser" – 2:52
 * 2) "Bone Machine" (Live in Netherlands, 1990) – 3:03
 * 3) "Gigantic" (Live in Netherlands, 1990) – 3:24
 * 4) "Isla de Encanta" (Live in Netherlands, 1990) – 1:44

title: Debaser


text:
Miss Supertest III

Miss Supertest III was a hydroplane designed and built by Canadians that won the 1959 Detroit Memorial Regatta and the 1959, 1960 and 1961 Harmsworth Cup races —the only four races she ever entered. She was the only three-time Harmsworth Cup winner and the first non-U.S. winner in 39 years.

Racing out of Sarnia, Ontario, Miss Supertest III was owned by J. Gordon Thompson, owner of Supertest Petroleum (later acquired by BP). The team was managed by his son, Jim Thompson, and the boat piloted by Bob Hayward. Miss Supertest III was inducted into Canada's Sports Hall of Fame. She is currently owned by Murray Walker. Her predecessor, Miss Supertest II, was briefly the fastest propeller-driven motorboat in the world, setting a water speed record of 296.96 km/h (184.494 mph) on November 1, 1957, at Picton, Ontario, with Art Asbury at the wheel. She broke a record that had stood for five years, but a new record was set only a few weeks later. The Harmsworth Cup races near Picton were broadcast on CJBQ radio by Jack Devine.

The first Miss Supertest was originally known as Miss Canada IV and competed in hydroplane races from 1949 to the mid-1950s.

The Miss Supertest boats were retired following the death of Bob Hayward. He was killed while racing Miss Supertest II about a month after winning the 1961 Harmsworth Cup with Miss Supertest III.

Canada Post issued a commemorative stamp in 2011 honouring Miss Supertest III, her driver Bob Hayward and businessman Jim Thompson, who designed and built her.

title: Miss Supertest III


text:
Talk:The Kingdom (miniseries)

The number of Seasons
The articles claims there is 1 season of 8 episodes. The First "Original" season was the first 4 episodes was aired in late 1994. Then the Tv network DR ordered another season, that was then written and produced and first aired in late 1997, 3 years later. I Don't see how one could argue that season 1&2 is not separate. The Second season also has another opening title (but same theme) and there is changes in the soundtrack, new characters is introduced, the plot is faster and with more action, etc. In December 2020 a third season is confirmed for 2022, and for instance IMDB list them as 3 seasons.

In Denmark on DVD, the 2nd season was also referred to as a sequel and a 2nd season, and then the first season was "Roget I" and the Second season is namned "Riget II"

I suggest changing it to 2 seasons.

https://www.dr.dk/om-dr/nyheder/riget-vender-tilbage https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108906/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 https://www.coolshop.dk/produkt/riget-1-dvd/AG5SD7/

--RobertoDenmark (talk) 22:36, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

The number of episodes
There seems to be some confusion with the number of episodes in this series. In the original version as screened om Danish television there were four episodes pr. season, which gives eight in total. This is confirmed by the Danish DVD. Those episodes might have been recut for other countries, so that the number of episodes would be higher. --Maitch 09:54, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Episode Titles
I have taken the ep titles directly off the episodes themselves, on the odd chance there should be some controversy. --Mark Temporis

New Image in Info Box
Since the Riget series has just come out on DVD in America (yet, for some reason, it's unavailable; I've checked!), the image in the Info Box should be that, the DVD's front cover.

The Kingdom (television) redirected from Riget?
How did you redirect Riget from The Kingdom? --68.37.116.234 15:34, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lars von Trier The Kingdom DVD cover.jpg
Image:Lars von Trier The Kingdom DVD cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 22:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Danskjävlar
I have some difficulty making sense of this sentence from the series: In every episode, two dishwashers (each with Down syndrome) in the cellar discuss the strange happenings at Riget, and Stig Helmer stands on the roof and screams his famous catchphrase: Danskjävlar (subtitled as "Danish scum", but "Danish bastards" or even "Danish assholes" might be nearer in meaning). Apart from a general slur and curse, the catchphrase literally means Danish Devils or Danish Demons, and I wonder if that is what's referred to here... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 14:09, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

 * The current wording in the article has the literal translation added, but why?
 * The meaning is clearly (to native speakers) "Danish bastards", which I guess the production company doesn't want to put into the subtitles so they use "Danish scum". The literal translation is only misleading, and not of interest to readers of this article. The frequent use of religion and the devil in Swedish swearing can be read about in its own Wp article for anyone with a special interest.
 * I would even argue that the whole "In every episode" sentence is superfluous to the Plot synopsis section, it is like a mini trivia piece. 83.250.6.202 (talk) 08:50, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Cleanup and Expansion
This article is underdeveloped and is missing important information on the series production, release, and reception which needs to be added to the article. This article is also improperly referenced and only lists a single reference in the entire article, most of it's information remains unsourced and should be given proper citations for its information. The plot section is poorly developed and should have the plot of both Riget and Riget 2 added in separate sections and in more detail. All of these changes and additions need to happen in order fro this article to meet Wikipiedia's standards and guidelines of a well developed and properly sourced article.--Paleface Jack (talk) 00:04, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Ida Engvoll's character's name
Background
 * The article has Ida Engvoll's character's name as "Kalle".
 * On screen at ~53m58s in episode 9 we see Henning Jensen's character writing and sending an email to her, using the address kali@regionh.dk, seemingly indicating that her name would be Kali.

So there is a possible discrepancy here. Alas, there are no character names to find in the start or end titles. Should the character's name then be listed as Kalle or Kali in the article? What is the original article source for Kalle?

Circumstances pointing to Kalle as the correct name
 * Kalle (a nickname for Karl/Carl) is a (very common) name in Sweden (Swedish being the nationality of Engvoll's character). But see more below!
 * ViaPlay subtitles for Nordic languages and English use the name Kalle.
 * IMDB has the character as Kalle: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108906/characters/nm4206052
 * Kali could be used only as an online nickname (quite suitable for her "hacker" character) while her given name is still Kalle/Karl.
 * Subtitles could be intentionally misleading, and a future plot point building on the Kalle/Kali similarity.
 * Some of the minor plot in episodes 1-2 revolve around gender and gender-related name issues, making it not improbable that using a very typical male name for a female character could be a further play on that theme.

Circumstances pointing to Kali as the correct name 83.250.6.202 (talk) 09:23, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * While being a very common name among Swedish male persons, Kalle is an extremely unusual name for a female person.
 * Kali, while being an unusual name for a native Swede, typically refers to a female person.
 * Subtitles are not seldom found to be incorrect compared to production intentions.
 * The pronunciation of the names Kalle and Kali can be quite (but not completely!) similar in Danish, as an explanation for a subtitling mistake.
 * IMDB using the name Kalle could be part of a circular reference issue.

title: Talk:The Kingdom (miniseries)


text:
Talk:Saurischia

Considering that Dinosauria is part of the class Archosauria, shouldn't Saurischia be part of this same class instead of Reptilia? DarthVader 09:54, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Class Archosauria seems to be standard across the dinosaur entries. Fixing this and the mis-spell of Aves as "Avis" in the taxobox. Dinoguy2 02:33, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Visible
Is it possible to see the different types of hips reflected in external form or stance?
 * The main visible difference in life would have been the size of the "gut"--the back-pointing pubis of ornithischians (and also herbivorous theropods) allowed for a longer digestive track and a longer belly. The more anterior center of gravity created by this may be why so many ornithischians were quadrupeds.Dinoguy2 23:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

In reply to the comments about classification above, Archosauria is NOT a class. It is a subclass of Reptilia. Archosaurians were most definitely reptiles, diapsids specifically. See the website of the University of California Museum of Paleontology here: http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/taxa/verts/archosaurs/archosauria.php

You will see a discussion of Archosauria as a subclass of Reptilia in the most authoritative general work on dinosaurs, The Dinosauria by David B. Weishampel and Halszka Osmólska. See also this abstract from the study Phylogenetic taxonomy and the major archosaurian (Reptilia) clades The abstract may be seen here: http://www.mendeley.com/research/phylogenetic-taxonomy-major-archosaurian-reptilia-clades-13/.

Dinosaurs were reptiles. I'm not sure why there is any doubt about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.113.28.134 (talk) 02:00, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Rank?
Why is Saurischia an unranked clade rather than an order in the taxobox? Petter Bøckman (talk) 16:22, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Because most paleontologists working in this area no longer rank it as an order. You reverted the change to clade in the taxobox saying that an "absolute majority of relevant sources" use order. Where is this demonstrated? It is no where in the article text and not backed up by reliable sources. I can't recall the last time I saw Saurischia referred to as an "order" in any source other than Benton 2004, and I read a lot of sources on this topic ;) A Google Scholar search for the past 10 years for "order saurischia" returns 74 sources, while "saurischia" alone returns over 1400. It does not look to me like a majority of modern sources rank this clade as an order. If I'm mistaken please include relevant sources in the text and then change the taxobox to follow. MMartyniuk (talk) 17:10, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I thnik we have been over this before, but I guess this is a secondary versus primary sources problem. We're supposed to follow textbooks like Benton rather than primary articles for such things. Petter Bøckman (talk) 17:28, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have many current, popular books (also secondary sources) that refer to Saurischia as a clade. Why are textbooks the favored secondary source? IMO we should use sources that best reflect the state of the art. There is very little of Benton's dinosaur classification that's currently up to date, and some of it flies in the face of all other sources (like avian oviraptorosaurs). MMartyniuk (talk) 15:36, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree that this is a primary/secondary problem. A source in the primary literature for a piece of information isn't necessarily a primary source. This is especially true for facts like "saurischia is an unranked clade", which would have been referenced and discussed over and over again. For all we know any given article mentioning that fact is ten degrees of separation its original primary source n the primary literature. Abyssal (talk) 16:20, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that in a science like paleontology, unlike say history, a journal article isn't a primary source--the fossils it describes are the primary sources. That's why it's OR to write personal observations about published photographs but not to report the findings of the studies of those bones. If we had to use textbooks alone as sources, a vast majority of dino articles should not exist. Most species are never mentioned in your average textbook. Benton's classification doesn't even include any taxa between Family and Infracohortlegion, let aloone genera that do not fall under any particular family. MMartyniuk (talk) 16:50, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Fossils are the primary source? Are you pulling my leg here, or are you really arguing that dinosaur study is somehow fundamentally different from all other branches of science? According to Wikipedia policy, [|research papers are the primary sources]. As to you question why, the reason seems to me at least to be that the typical overview textbook is written by an expert with years of experience in the field, and presents a well rounded picture of the knowledge. Whatever makes it into such a textbook is likely to be well tested and well known. While the criterion for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, it would be nice if the facts are true too, and secondary facts are better checked than primary ones.

 * Having said that, I have no problem with primary sources for facts that are questionable or not covered in the secondary literature, as in the example you cite above (avian oviraptorosaurs). With the knowledge of dinosaur phylogeny is in constant flux these days (we live in the dinosaur renaissance apparently), primary sources obviously have their place, but we need to show due caution when using them. Someone calling Saurischia a clade does not mean it also can't be an order. I've written research papers myself (some small stuff in an entirely unrelated field), and I don't use the formal family and genus other than in the rare occasions when I need to list a formal classification (i.e. next to never, I'm an ecologist). Perhaps the next generation of entry level university textbooks on dinosaurs will be written without any formal ranking at all, but we'll have to wait for someone to write the next "Vertebrate palaentology" to find out. Petter Bøckman (talk) 10:58, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * "we'll have to wait for someone to write the next "Vertebrate palaentology" to find out." Again, why this book in particular? There are numerous non-textbook secondary sources, also written by experts with years in the field (like Tom Holtz's popular audience books) which explicitly reject ranked nomenclature already. Benton is rather infamous as being one of the last holdouts of ranks within vert. paleontology. This is somewhat analogous to saying that since many secondary sources on Mesozoic birds are written by Alan Feduccia and Larry Martin, we should adopt a bird-are-not-dinosaurs position until they decide to "update" their texts with the "new fact" that birds are in fact dinosaurs. Never gonna happen. MMartyniuk (talk) 13:35, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

 * It doesn't need to be this book in particular at all :-) As you may remember from some of our conversations, I'm not overly enamoured by Benton's classification either. I could have suggested any title along the same lines (Vertebrate Paleontology and Evolution - Carroll, Evolution of the Vertebrates - Colbert, to mention two), it's just that books on this topic tend to be named "Vertebrate palaentology" (Benton, Romer, Russell, Schoch). I was trying to put through the point that the basic overview book of this type is just the type of source that is ideal for general Wikipedia articles. These books seem to have a lifespan of perhaps 30 years (Romer's were in print for about 40, over 50 if you include "The Vertebrate Body"), so it is a bit early to call.

 * There's a fundamental difference between this argument and Feduccias stance on birds. Feduccia & Martin makes statements on objective facts (phylogeny) which can be tested scientifically. Whether using ranks is right or wrong is not a scientific question, it is one of philosophy, tradition and practicality.

 * Reguarding Holtz's books, I think we again may see a bit of cultural difference here. As I have said earlier, rankless numenclature seems to have their strongest following in the US, France and Germany, less so in Britain and the rest of Europe. This is why I argue for a "live and let live" approach, English Wikipedia is the de facto main Wikipedia, and caters to more than the an US audience. Petter Bøckman (talk) 13:31, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

"I was trying to put through the point that the basic overview book of this type is just the type of source that is ideal for general Wikipedia articles."I don't disagree in principle. The questions are, do all of these various books include ranked classifications? If so, do they all agree on the ranks? If not, what is the majority usage? All the various schemes can and should be discussed in the text. But for the taxobox, we need to follow consensus where it exists. Right now there are zero sources regarding modern use of ranks for Saurischia discussed and cited in the text. All the sources besides Benton I personally have access to, popular and technical, treat this taxon as unranked. If you have more popular sources/textbooks that rank it, by all means add the cites and change the taxobox. But it needs to be verifiable, not "well, everybody knows it's an Order, and Benton calls it that, so good enough". If other sources rank it, we need to add them to the classification section, determine if they're the majority, and determine if they agree on the rank. If only Benton is calling this thing an Order during the last decade, he;s a fringe minority and should be ignored. MMartyniuk (talk) 13:54, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen those by Russell, Schoch (both whom appear to be article collections rather than textbooks), but all the other books I mentioned have Saurischia as an order. I can have a look at others if you want me to. Afters Seeley ranked Saurischia and Ornithischia as orders in 1888, they have generally kept that rank, even among the "Dinosaurs are a class!"-people. I haven never seen it ranked otherwise, hence my surprise at Saurischia as an unranked clade. Benton has his unusual ideas (I think Synapsida as a class is his invention), but he's very much a traditionalist, and there's no compelling reason for changing the rank of a well defined and well understood unit like Saurischia. While since 1888 is hardly "always", it is a very long time of taxonomic stability. Petter Bøckman (talk) 15:47, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt most people traditionally rank it as an order, but I'm wondering if the majority of textbooks rank it at all. By the way, in Spencer Lucas' Dinosaurs: The Textbook, I see he ranks all the traditional "suborders" as orders, so Saurischia is presumably a higher rank. Greg Paul and Bob Bakker have also given various different taxa the Order rank (justifiably IMO, as the primary de facto divisions of dinosaurs aren't Saurischians & Ornithischians but Theropods, Sauropodomorphs and Ornithischians). MMartyniuk (talk) 17:37, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if they were to find it is a three way split (or even with Bakker's old "Dinosaur heresies" with an Theropoda-Ornitischia clade), that would be reason to change the ranking. If it were all up to me, I'd go with three orders, but I'm not the ICZN. Seems I need to check out Spencer Lukas. Isn't the monophyly of Saurischia fairly certain? I'm not a dinosaur guy per se, so I haven't followed the literature closely. Petter Bøckman (talk) 19:41, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The monophyly is certain, the division is more a reflection of the "major groups". Sauropods branched off one node closer to theropods than ornithischians, but nobody ever really talks about "saurischians" in general because sauropods and theropods ended up diverging so much. If by "oder" we mean a major body plan within a larger group, it doesn't make much sense to put Apatosaurus and Tyrannosaurus in the same "order" to the exclusion of Edmontosaurus. The only real commonality are hip arrangement (also shared with very primitive ornithischians) and air sacs. (and the ICZN doesn't govern anything above family, which is why everybody has their own scheme ;) ). MMartyniuk (talk) 20:55, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * My impression is that one of the advantages Wikipedia has over other encyclopedic venues is that it can react quicker than the latter to changes in various fields. While that may lead to some fickleness, I do feel that it's a characteristic to maintain and even strive for. Also the prevalence of typological thinking vs tree-thinking in the rest of Europe... well at least in Portugal, is more due to the inertia of the educational system (unchanging requirements? lack of time to update syllabi?) than anything else. For instance, a more recent (3 years) syllabus for Botany at the University of Algarve does include a moderately up to date cladistic classification of plants, though some 5 years earlier I was still hearing about protozoans as animals. As such I'd rather that Wikipedia reflected next-to-current usage by scientists in the pertinent fields. Dracontes (talk) 10:02, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You are right in seeing this as a larger question, Dracontes. My personal motivation is to try to preserve what is best from both traditions, they each have their good and weak sides. Petter Bøckman (talk) 13:44, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Birds evolved from ornitischians?
An editor have now twice put in an edit stating that birds evolved from "bird-hipped" Ornitischians. This is not correct. The term ornitischia is a reference to the other order of dinosaurs, the order that birds did not evolve from. While a similarly structured hip-bone evolved separately in the theropod family Therizinosauridae, does not make them in any way ornitischians, they are still saurischians. The typical hip-bone found in modern birds actually evolved after the early birds had evolved from maniraptoran ancestors. The whole (grade) Maniraptora had straight up lizard-like hips, and so did Archaeopteryx. So even if the terms Saurischia and Ornitischia are used as anatomical terms rather than systematic (which they never are btw), the edits that birds evolved from ornitischian dinosaurs are wrong. Petter Bøckman (talk) 05:53, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Duh, you don't get it don't you? I'm not saying that at all! The way the text is written makes it appear as bird hips evolved separately from Saurischian hips! But this is not true. They ARE Saurischians who evolved a hip-structure similar to Ornithischians as a form of convergent Evolution! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.187.110.13 (talk) 11:05, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This is a case of confusing grammar in the article. "evolved independently from" didn't mean "independent origin than" but "from among" saurischians. I edited the paragraph to clarify things. MMartyniuk (talk) 19:13, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Much better now. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.187.110.110 (talk) 21:26, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * AH, good! Only I suppose it should be "evolved trice", we must not forget the therizinosaurs. Petter Bøckman (talk) 06:29, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Why removed theropoda?
Why did you remove the Theropoda with this edit: ? --Jules (Mrjulesd) 21:50, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm guessing it's because a recent paper showed that Theropodas were more closely related to Ornithischians than to Sauropods, which from a cladistic standpoint makes sense (feathers are found in both theropods and primitive ornithischians, but not in sauropods or primitive saurischians). Of course other scientists are reviewing the paper and so it might take time for it to officially change, but the overall view of the paper are positive as it solves many of the problems with the current classifications. --2602:306:3160:6420:8D30:2EBE:15E1:45BA (talk) 16:10, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
 * There is no such thing as an "official" change, what matters is how widely the idea is accepted in the literature. And we have no idea yet, since there have been no published reactions to it. In any case, Theropoda can't be removed from here before there is scientific consensus, and that is unlikely to happen any time soon, so we should just present the different hypotheses. FunkMonk (talk) 16:13, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Aren't crocodiles saurischians, too?
At the end of the Cretaceous Period, all saurischians except the birds became extinct in the course of the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event.

What about the crocodiles? They are also still around.--2003:CE:BF18:60BF:310A:2384:DFE0:58EB (talk) 13:08, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Crocodilians are not neither saurischians nor dinosaurs. See Archosaur.Kiwi Rex (talk) 14:05, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Saurischia


text:
User talk:Acerimusdux

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Sam Vimes 09:54, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style
 * Merging, redirecting, and renaming pages
 * If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Topical index.

Are your saying....?
I'm all for editing articles into concise information, but do you really believe ALL of the info you excised should not be included? Moriori 07:28, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, half the article was devoted to this guy's "invented" theory of the "inverted ad-hominem". It was interspersed throughout. Cleaning it up isn't easy, and there's one or two sentences that maybe can be added back in - like, perhaps the reference to Aristotle. But, given the source (I know - ad hominem), I'd like to see a link for that as well. It's public domain stuff, so I'll probably find it available at Project Guttenberg. But read the two; see the talk page - and tell me if you think the previous version made more sense. It appeared to me to be one user having corrupted what had been a mostly sound article, with alot of people disagreeing with it but too timid to go ahead and make the changes. Acerimusdux 07:46, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * OK. However, you say there is content that maybe can be added back. Would be a good idea, to balance the article. Moriori 20:28, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Image:NA-Congdist-GA13 109.gif listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:NA-Congdist-GA13 109.gif, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. -Tobogganoggin talk 03:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Comment on edits
Hi, I glanced through your recent contributions to American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 and although I didn't double-check the numbers they seem to be good. Many of these small edits are within minutes of each other, however - have you thought about sitting for 15 minutes and doing fewer but more comprehensive edits, and perhaps including edit summaries? It eases the review burden somewhat. Thanks for your work. II | (t - c) 18:45, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

title: User talk:Acerimusdux


text:
Alexander ALX400

The Alexander ALX400 (later known as the TransBus ALX400 and the Alexander Dennis ALX400) was a 2-axle double-decker bus body built by Walter Alexander Coachbuilders (later by TransBus International/Alexander Dennis). It was one of the ALX-series bodywork, all of which (except the ALX100) featured the same designs on the front and rear panels that were originally designed for the new generation of mainly low-floor bus chassis produced since the late 1990s.

Description
First unveiled in 1997, the Alexander ALX400 replaced the step-entrance Alexander R-series and was fitted to numerous chassis, including the Dennis/TransBus Trident 2, the DAF/VDL DB250LF and the Volvo B7TL.

Various seating configurations were available, with Transport for London (TfL) specification models fitted with a central exit door. There are typically 45 seats on the upper deck, and between 17 and 22 seats on the lower deck depending on chassis variant and length. Longer models for use elsewhere have up to 47 seats on the upper deck, and 24 below with a central door. Stagecoach subsidiaries outside London have ALX400s on long-wheelbase Dennis Trident 2 chassis, fitted with 51 seats upstairs (47 on later models) and 28 downstairs. These buses have been used all over the UK, in major cities including London, Birmingham, Manchester and Newcastle.

Operators
The Alexander ALX400 proved to be a major success with national operators; large numbers of the buses served London and the rest of the United Kingdom. Arriva London took delivery of the first ALX400 in May 1998, numbered DLA1 and built on DAF DB250LF chassis, which was also London's first low-floor double decker. Arriva London would go on to order 388 more ALX400s on DAF DB250LF chassis between 1998 and 2005, and from 2017 to 2019, DLA1 would be restored to as-new condition by Alexander Dennis, with plans for it to be exhibited at the London Transport Museum before it was later sold into private ownership.

From its introduction until 2006, the Alexander ALX400 on the Dennis Trident 2 chassis was the favoured 2-axle double-decker bus model for the Stagecoach Group. Stagecoach London operated the most ALX400s in the group, continuously taking delivery of 998 ALX400s to its various garages from 1998 to 2006. Stagecoach's first low-floor double-decker bus outside London was one of a pair of ALX400-bodied Dennis Tridents that were delivered to Stagecoach Manchester in 1998; this bus would later be donated to and restored by Museum of Transport, Greater Manchester. Deliveries were made to Stagecoach operations across the United Kingdom such as in Oxford, Devon, Canterbury, Cambridge, and Kingston upon Hull, among others.

In London, other operators of Alexander ALX400s on Dennis Trident 2 and Volvo B7TL chassis included Arriva London, who took delivery of 179 ALX400-bodied B7TLs alongside their DAF DB250LFs; London United, who took delivery of 156 ALX400-bodied Tridents and 62 B7TLs;   Metroline, who took delivery of 154 ALX400-bodied Tridents;  Connex, who took 128 Trident-bodied ALX400s;  First London, who took delivery of 64 Tridents and 27 B7TLs;   London Central, who took one batch of 46 ALX400-bodied Volvo B7TLs in 1999 before moving onto the Plaxton President,  and Armchair Passenger Transport, who took 22 ALX400-bodied Tridents in 2002.

The ALX400 was also popular with Dublin Bus of Ireland, which ordered 658 between 2000 and 2006. All but ten were fitted on Volvo B7TL chassis, with a batch of ten fitted on the TransBus Trident chassis delivered in 2003 to compare against the B7TLs with a view to splitting future orders. Most of these featured 76 seat single door bodies although there were various seating capacities used on a small minority of rail and airport link services; Summerhill based AV 116-130 were built with dual-door bodies for use on the Airlink services.

Alexander ALX400s on both the Dennis Trident 2 and Volvo B7TL chassis were also extensively delivered to the National Express's bus operations in the West Midlands, Coventry and Dundee, with over 400 orders received for all three operations from 2001 to 2005. Translink of Northern Ireland purchased over 150 Alexander ALX400s on Volvo B7TL chassis for its Ulsterbus and Citybus (later rebranded Metro) operations between 2001 and 2006, with the first batch of 20 delivered to Citybus in 2001 marking the return of double-decker buses to Belfast for the first time since their withdrawal in 1989.

Outside London, Arriva ordered ALX400s on both the Dennis Trident and Volvo B7TL chassis in comparatively smaller numbers compared to Stagecoach and the FirstGroup. On the Volvo B7TL chassis, 20 ALX400s were delivered to Arriva Yorkshire in 2000, 49 were delivered to Arriva Medway Towns in 2004 as part of Operation Overdrive, two ALX400s were delivered to Arriva North East in 2005 as part of a larger investment in 24 new buses for the region, and 30 ALX400s were delivered to Arriva Merseyside in 2006. On the Dennis Trident chassis, 30 ALX400s were delivered to Arriva Shires & Essex in 2000.

Smaller operators of Alexander ALX400-bodied buses included Lothian Buses, who had five delivered on Dennis Trident chassis in 1999; UK North, who had four ALX400s on DAF DB250 chassis delivered in 1999; the Oxford Bus Company, who had 20 dual-door ALX400s on Dennis Trident 2 chassis delivered for use on the Oxford Park and Ride in 1999; East Yorkshire Motor Services and Finglands Coachways, who took delivery of two ALX400s each on Dennis Trident 2 chassis for evaluation against Plaxton President-bodied Volvo B7TLs in 2000; and Newport Transport, who took delivery of six ALX400s on Dennis Trident chassis in 2000.

In late 2005 Alexander Dennis launched the Enviro400 model, intended as a replacement for the ALX400. Despite the bulk of the 2006 Stagecoach double-decker bus order favouring the Enviro400 model, also chosen by London operator Metroline, in July 2006 Dublin Bus placed a repeat order for 100 of the type on Volvo B7TL chassis. Production of the ALX400 bodywork ceased after the delivery of these 100 ALX400-bodied Volvo B7TLs in late 2006.

title: Alexander ALX400


text: User talk:69.3.114.171

title: User talk:69.3.114.171


text:
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Udine

The Archdiocese of Udine (Archidioecesis Utinensis) is a Latin Church ecclesiastical territory or archdiocese of the Catholic Church in Italy. The see was established in 1752 when the Patriarchal see of Aquileia was divided. From 1818 to 1846 it was a suffragan diocese of the Patriarch of Venice.

Archbishops of Udine, 1752–1818

 * Cardinal Daniele Delfino (1752 Appointed – 13 Mar 1762 Died), former Patriarch of Aquileia
 * Archbishop Bartolomeo Gradenigo (13 Mar 1762 Succeeded – 2 Nov 1765 Died)
 * Archbishop Giovanni Hieronymo Gradenigo, C.R. † (27 Jan 1766 Appointed – 1786 Died)
 * Archbishop Niccolò Sagredo ( 1786 Appointed – 1792 Died)
 * Cardinal Pietro Antonio Zorzi, C.R.S. † (24 Sep 1792 Appointed – 17 Dec 1803 Died)
 * Archbishop Baldassare Rasponti (18 Sep 1807 Appointed – 14 Feb 1814 Died)

Bishops of Udine, 1818–1846

 * Bishop Emmanuele Lodi, O.P. (28 Aug 1819 Appointed – Feb 1845 Died)
 * Archbishop Zaccaria Bricito (21 Dec 1846 Appointed – 6 Feb 1851 Died)

Archbishops of Udine, 1846–present

 * Cardinal Giuseppe Luigi Trevisanato (27 Sep 1852 Appointed – 7 Apr 1862 Appointed, Patriarch of Venice)
 * Archbishop Andrea Casasola (28 Sep 1863 Appointed – 1884 Died)
 * Archbishop Giovanni Maria Berengo (10 Nov 1884 Appointed – 1896 Died)
 * Archbishop Pietro Zamburlini (22 Jun 1896 Appointed – 1909 Died)
 * Archbishop Antonio Anastasio Rossi (8 Jan 1910 Appointed – 19 Dec 1927 Appointed, Latin Patriarch of Constantinople)
 * Archbishop Giuseppe Nogara (27 Jan 1928 Appointed – 9 Dec 1955 Died)
 * Archbishop Giuseppe Zaffonato (31 Jan 1956 Appointed – 29 Sep 1972 Resigned)
 * Archbishop Alfredo Battisti (13 Dec 1972 Appointed – 28 Oct 2000 Retired)
 * Archbishop Pietro Brollo (28 Oct 2000 Appointed – 20 Aug 2009 Retired)
 * Archbishop Andrea Bruno Mazzocato (20 Aug 2009 – 23 February 2024 Retired)
 * Archbishop Riccardo Lamba (23 February 2024 – current)

Books

 * p. 775.

title: Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Udine


text:
Lucent Public License

The Lucent Public License is an open-source license created by Lucent Technologies. It has been released in two versions: Version 1.0 and 1.02.

While the Lucent Public License is not one of the more popular open-source licenses, a number of products have been released under it. Notably, the license was the only open source license available to the public for the Plan 9 from Bell Labs operating system until 2014, when the University of California, Berkeley was "authorised by Alcatel-Lucent to release all Plan 9 software previously governed by the Lucent Public License, Version 1.02 under the GNU General Public License, Version 2."

The license has been approved by the Open Source Initiative as a license meeting The Open Source Definition, while the Free Software Foundation considers it a free software license, but suggests to eschew use of the license, stating: “This is a free software license, but it is incompatible with the GNU GPL because of its choice of law clause. We recommend that you not use this license for new software that you write, but it is ok to use and improve Plan 9 under this license.” The clause in particular that causes it to be incompatible with the GNU GPL is "This Agreement is governed by the laws of the State of New York and the intellectual property laws of the United States of America."

title: Lucent Public License