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Talk:Adrian Rogers

NPOV?
I'm not sure the word "staunchly" as an adjective to conservative is neutral. Isn't "staunchly" pointing "conservative" to a negative?

"The denomination has remained staunchly conservative since Rogers' first term as president."

There's no cite, so I don't know where the sentence came from. Recommend removing staunchly to maintain NPOV. But this is my first visit to this page so I'm not changing it now. I could be wrong anyway. :)

70.185.248.54 (talk) 23:46, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Recent Changes
Since Dr. Rogers death, there have been multiple anon editors that have removed or substantially altered two or three sections of this article. I wanted to discuss some of these changes, and especially the recent changes made by 70.60.84.90.

First, regarding the theological/ideological tilt of the SBC, I don't know whether the SBC was conservative historically or not. However, I am certain that the SBC, as a whole, somewhat moderate by the late 1970s, given that, at the very least, there were moderate pastors in leadership positions. This hasn't been the case since 1979 when Rogers was elected (whether he was the catalyst or merely a symptom is debatable, and the article doesn't really take a position). Thus, it is an accurate description to say that Rogers' election precipitated a sharp rightward shift in the denomination, and news obituaries (including the AP obit cited in the article) agree on this point. Casting rightward shifts as "return to historical roots" (whether the description fits the situation or not, and i'm not passing judgment on this particular situation) is a common conservative rhetorical tool (this is especially true in politics), and is employed quite often when rightward shifts of any nature occur. Thus, describing the shift as a return to historical roots in this article is POV and inappropriate, in my opinion.

Second, I am not entirely familiar with Rogers' involvement in the revision of the Baptist Faith and Message. I imagine that the article should more thoroughly describe his involvement, assuming that this is done in an NPOV manner.

Finally, the slavery quote. It has been deleted repeatedly, without explanation, by anons. A more recent revision didn't remove the quote, but attempted to defend it by stating that it was "taken out of context" (stating that Rogers was talking about biblical slavery, not 18th and 19th century slavery). First, this apology doesn't make logical sense, given that Rogers tied his statement to welfare, not the Hebrews, linking his statement to contemporary America, which casts doubt on the anon's explanation. Second, and this is just my personal opinion here, maybe slavery, in any context, is unjustifiable. My personal prejudice against slavery aside, the "take it in context" explanation given doesn't make logical sense given my first argument. - Jersyko 21:36, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) I totally agree that the wording of "return to historical roots" is inappropriate. When I read the edit for the first time, I was struck by it.  In my mind, that phrasing makes the sentence sound in favor of the shift and is also misleading because as we all well know that "conservatism" now is different than how it was defined 50 years ago.  A more accurate and neutral phrase should be used.
 * 2) Further agreement on more info desired on the topic of Roger's involvement in the BFM.
 * 3) Most people do not like to be called racists, and I do not think that the article directly states that. The quote could possibly be intrepreted as a moment when Rogers showed a poor choice of words, considering the history of conservative southern churches and racism.  Nonetheless, wikipedia does not need to begin a habit in selectively omitting information that some people find offensive.  As long as the article is NPOV, potential problems are usually avoided.  Any more information on his views of race would be welcome, just as his support in revising the BFM.  The quotation in the article is referenced from a published source and other related references about his life can be included.  If that first quote is misleading to Roger's life, then the other facts can help to better fully describe his views/actions. -Dozenist  talk  01:11, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Here is a question posted on my talk page by an anon followed by my response. I think it might be useful to have this on this talk page, so I'm reproducing it here. -  Jersyko

Why are you insisting on including reference to a one-time "slavery" comment that was obviously taken out of context? That does not at all define who Adrian Rogers was, as all that knew him can attest. If this reference has to be included, there should be a reference to a rebuttal as well. - 70.60.86.45 (unsigned anon)
 * Hi, thanks for your comment. While I did not add the slavery quote to the Adrian Rogers article in the first place, I do think, after some consideration, it belongs in the article.  While the quote is taken out of context, as quotes often are, I think the contextual issue as it has been presented is not very relevant, as I explain on the article's talk page (see above).
 * I am all for offering evidence in the article that Dr. Rogers was not, in fact, a racist or a supporter of slavery. I think the article does indicate, in the sentence following the slavery quote, that Dr. Rogers was not a racist or a slavery supporter, but more could be added.  I'm vaguely familiar with a story about when Dr. Rogers was fairly new at Bellevue and told some deacons, who were contemplating not allowing African-Americans to join the church, that he would resign in protest if they decided to ban blacks from the church.  I would love to see something about this in the article, assuming that it's true and a source for the story can be found.  If you can find verification for this story, and can add something in the article about it in a neutral point of view manner, I, among other editors, would welcome such an addition, i'm sure. -  Jersyko   talk  22:44, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I just wanted to point out that a story like that, if eventually is included in the article, would be best to be referenced to some sort of source that can be verified by others. An eyewitness account technically is a source, but something we can all find (like a book, reputable website, etc.) would be better.  Otherwise, the story can easily be called into question. -Dozenist  talk  01:14, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

More on recent changes
Being unfamiliar with the Wiki protocols, I made revisions to Dr. Rogers' article before registering here. None of them were in any way inappropriate--yet, rather than just changing things back, I will explain them, and give others the opportunity to restore the previous, appropriate changes, so that there's no back-and-forth between deleting and replacing.

When one confesses lack of information regarding the ideology of an organization, one puts oneself in the position of being unable to judge whether or not statements regarding that organization are, or are not, accurate. Any research into the history of the SBC, regardless of the viewpoint of the information, will make it clear that the SBC had drifted from its historical conservatism by the 1970s; even the Wiki article on the Convention makes that obvious. The idea that the truthful statement saying the denomination returned "to its historical roots" is merely a "conservative rhetorical tool" is nonsense--unless it's wrong to have the truth as a tool. At best, such an accusation is POV in and of itself.

The slavery quote is from a single, unreliable source--an individual who wrote a book and took no pains to make it "NPOV," yet the quote is taken to be not only legitimate, but worthwhile in this article. It should either be amplified, as it was, or deleted altogether.

If these edits need to be discussed, then let's discuss them. Otherwise, I will reinstate the changes I made previously, changes that make the article more accurate and not pejorative. Mike Bratton

 * In response: Any research into the history of the SBC, regardless of the viewpoint of the information, will make it clear that the SBC had drifted from its historical conservatism by the 1970s; even the Wiki article on the Convention makes that obvious. Perhaps you are correct.  However, the phrase is a common conservative rhetorical tool (as I say above, I'm not passing judgment on whether you have used it as such).  Is the current phrasing about Dr. Rogers' presidency precipitating a shift to the right inaccurate?  Then why, may I ask, would you prefer to describe the shift in the way you have described if the most simple, universally understandable explanation is "rightward shift"?  I stand by my statements regarding this in the above section.
 * The slavery quote is from a single, unreliable source--an individual who wrote a book and took no pains to make it "NPOV," yet the quote is taken to be not only legitimate, but worthwhile in this article. It should either be amplified, as it was, or deleted altogether.  I think consensus has been reached on this issue, and it has been explained well enough in the above sections of this page (it involves adding a bit to that section, which hasn't been done yet).  Also, regardless of whether that particular cited source is reliable, at least one editor initially attempting to remove the quote admitted that the quote was accurate (though taken out of context). -  Jersyko   talk  21:15, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * A tool is a tool. Indicting the tool because it had the temerity to be used wrongly would mean blaming a baseball bat for being used by vandals to knock down a mailbox.  The SBC was a conservative denomination; in the mid-1960s and into the 1970s, it began a drift to the left, which was reversed in the late 1970s.  This is not opinion, and there is no "perhaps" about it; people on both sides of the SBC debate agree about the timeframe, and about the outcome.  Merely referring to the "Conservative Resurgence" as a "rightward shift" only tells half the story, and is thus inaccurate.  Objections to the phrase "return to its historical roots" are groundless, since they seek to argue well-established facts.
 * Ed Babinski has an anti-Christian agenda to push, and is not a reputable source. An Internet debating acquaintance of mine, Dave Armstrong, relates this quote from Mr. Babinski regarding his worldview:  "I am frankly sick of religion, and (sic) it's middle men, and polite attempts to suggest everyone else is in eternal error by them and their beliefs."
 * Scores of lazy reporters have picked up on the manipulated quote--stripped of context which had been added, mind you--and have used it in attempts to taint Dr. Rogers' reputation; anyone involved with irresponsibly removing the contextual information bears at least some responsibility for these acts.
 * Even the slightest effort to research the quote would've yielded this contextual information in a review, by Chad Brand on the founders.org website, of the book "The Godmakers": "Gourley's use of his sources is also problematic. Granted that he makes use almost exclusively of sources whose authors have a vested interest to critique the conservative resurgence. But does he use those sources accurately? In many cases he does not. In Chapter Four he critiques the conservative movement for its racism. "It is a tragedy, however, that the white God which Southern Baptists of the 1800s worshipped is still alive in the minds of many Southern Baptists, particularly in fundamentalist circles" (p. 75). As a prime example he presents this: ". . . Adrian Rogers, fundamentalist pastor and past SBC president, recently revealed his racist beliefs when asked about slavery: `Well, I believe slavery is amuch-maligned institution. If we had slavery today, we would not have this welfare mess'" (p. 75). Gourley seeks with this quote to prove that Rogers is a racist in his attitude toward African-Americans. The footnote for this comment cites an essay by Cecil Sherman, former head of the CBF. But when one looks at the essay by Sherman, an entirely different perspective is apparent. Sherman asked Rogers the question about slavery in the context of their work together on the Peace Committee. But the question he asked was about slavery in the Bible, not the American institution of racial subservience. This is very plain in Sherman's essay ("Moderate Responses to the Fundamentalist Movement," in Walter Shurden, ed., The Struggle for the Soul of the SBC, p. 36). Sherman did not take Rogers' comment to refer to the American institution of Southern injustice, and there is no reason why Gourley should have taken the text in this manner, either. One may disagree with Rogers' statement in any event, but to twist his words willfully in order to score a rhetorical point is unconscionable reporting."
 * I heartily agree with the last sentence in that last quote. Mike Bratton
 * Rather than merely rehash my responses to what you're saying here, I'll simply refer to my prior comments on essentially the same subjects. I'll also refer to Dozenist's comments in the same section regarding the "return to historical roots" language and adopt his position as my own. -  Jersyko   talk  17:34, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

--- Either get a good citation on this slavery quote or remove it. The citation link for the slavery remark is pretty much a dead link. If this is a real quote, get a real citation, and a legitimate one that can be validated. It's been over a year since I requested the same thing. If someone is prepared to stand up and accept responsibility for the quotation and face up to the legal challenges it will present then do so. Otherwise it needs to be removed. Odestiny (talk) 02:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * After reading all of this, I still don't understand why the author of the slavery statement is not named if you are using his statement. Otherwise it appears to have no validity. Can't you replace "one author" with a name? - Odestiny 18:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Random
This is a random thought, and does not belong in the article, but Dr. Rogers had the strongest hand-shake grip of any man ever. If you weren't on guard, he'd crush your hand. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Even though I disagreed with most of his views, I can't deny he was a great guy. I'm sure he'll be missed. - orion  eight  (talk) 03:54, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I have been a life long Southern Baptist and have a father and grandfather who are both ordained ministers within the Denomination. I would simply like to point out that it is futile to argue over the historical validity of certain stances presently held by the Convention. The Baptist movement in general has a very long and detailed history. Unlike protestant groups, like the Methodists, who formed out of the theology of a singular individual (John Wesley, or a single group of individuals if you count his brother Charles and others associated with them), the Baptist movement has developed out of several essentially independent movements. In truth, it appears that the belief in a cognitive profession of faith as a prerequisite for baptism and the belief in the independence of the individual congregations, may be the only two characteristics common among all Baptist sects. From the very beginning, there have been Baptist groups that have tended towards more Anabaptist theological roots and there have others who have tended towards more Calvinistic theological roots. This variety was still present when Baptist congregations began forming in the United States. While there were several factors that led to the formation of the Southern Baptist Convention, theological differences (of the sort in question) played a very minor role. Not because they were universally agreed upon, but because the issues surrounding the rift were of a wholly different nature. Because of this those who claim the current theological stance as historical have just as valid of an argument as those who oppose them. It is sad that these disagreements have been able to fester the way they have. Baptists have a strong tradition of independence that unfortunately seems to have been lost on the Convention, with groups on both sides being at fault. Let’s hope this needles quarreling soon comes to an end. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.155.122.251 (talk • contribs).

I deleted the slavery quotation attributed to doctor Rogers simply because there was no source listed for this quote. When I clicked on the reference number to see where this quote came from there was a link to ouramericanvalues.org which was actually the source for the quote before this one.

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The unprofessional conduct on this page. Last Time I visited this page I found that the person responsible for this page was Just a Liar,I am glade that either he was moved to lie in another page,or was promoted or just somebody confronted him and restrained his unethical and unprofessional behavior. But I can say that I don't trust any thing on Wikipedia after that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.215.243 (talk) 04:41, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Slavery redux
If there are sources which exist and are citeable which contradict the position taken in the pro slavery quote, an addition to the article would be appropriate stating that Rogers also preached on the ills of slavery. It doesn't change the fact, however, that a source exists which verifies the pro slavery quote, so it doesn't support deletion of the pro slavery quote unless the source is somehow unreliable. Interwebs (talk) 17:51, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

I added a refernce that include an audio sermon ,In which,Adrian Rogers States that he is grateful that Abraham Lincolin signed that emancipation proclaimation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PaulHijazin (talk • contribs) 04:17, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You completely ignored the substance of my comment above and deleted the relevant passage, however. Interwebs (talk) 12:17, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

A. your comment was "DO NOT DELETE THIS SECTION, AND DO NOT CHANGE CONTENT UNLESS YOU HAVE REFERENCES" which is ambiguous, unfortunately ,I understood that I can delete if I have a reference. May be you should change it to “DO NOT DELETE THIS SECTION. DO NOT CHANGE CONTENT UNLESS YOU HAVE REFERENCES" . B.you changed the content to "Supporters of Rogers point out, however, that he also allegedly preached favorably about Abraham Lincoln and the Emancipation Proclamation." although it sounds well ,but I have some objections: 1.you don't have to use "allegedly",just follow this link and then press on play audio,the sermon title is "Liberated Living " .if you don't want to listen to all of it,just listen to minute 42. http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Love_Worth_Finding/archives.asp?bcd=2010-4-13 2.you don't have to say supporters of Adrian Rogers to describe anybody who comments in his favor,unless you want to describe commenter's who comment against him as adversaries or opponents. 3. it’s obvious that an audio reference in his own voice should annul,in case of contradiction, a reference with a reported speech, of which the context of the speech -sense he could have been sarcastic about the welfare system-and the truthfulness of the reporter is unverifiable.thanks--PaulHijazin (talk) 14:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * You're misreading my comment. Two sources exist which support the inclusion of the pro-slavery quote.  Unless a reliable source exists which disputes the two sources directly, then the quote should remain.  I've added a sentence noting that Rogers allegedly took a contrary position in a sermon (I cannot listen to the sermon, so I cannot confirm). Interwebs (talk) 15:02, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

The source that I have added is verifiable, and as I mentioned if you don’t want to listen to the whole sermon for some religious affiliation or whatever other reasons, that’s fine. The quote starts at 41:58 and ends at 42:10, but that doesn’t justify ignoring an important reference in such a significant issue. And honestly, I still wait for a response to my previous objections. --PaulHijazin (talk) 15:23, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I haven't listened to the sermon because I do not have access to a method to playback audio at this exact moment. I deleted the "supports of Rogers" portion of the sentence to address your concerns.  Regarding #3 in your comment, I would point to WP:PRIMARY.  Primary sources (e.g., a Rogers sermon) may be used, but not in an interpretive sense (secondary reliable sources are required for that).  Thus, we can't use the Rogers sermon to "prove" that Rogers never made the comments about slavery or that he never held the views reported by secondary sources.  We CAN use it to prove that Rogers made the statement that the Emancipation Proclamation was a good thing, which we do by adding a sentence after the other, cited material.  Even without referencing Wikipedia policy, does it not make sense that Rogers' view of slavery might have changed over time, and that he actually took both positions supported by the sources?  If so, we include both, as the article currently states.  As it stands, there are two sources which support inclusion of the quote.  I've seen no evidence presented that the sources are unreliable. Interwebs (talk) 16:23, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, hope that our discussion will lead to a more accurate representation of the facts. I want to make three points: 1. I agree with you, the reference that I presented will not negate the references that are cited with regards to Mr. Adrian statements in favor of Slavery against Welfare system. Sense as you justly pointed out that we are discussing discrete events. 2. My main concern now is that the content of the article at this point doesn’t accurately reflect the available evidences, precisely in the following segment: “Rogers later allegedly preached favorably about Abraham Lincoln and the Emancipation Proclamation.” My objections are: a.	The main signification of allegedly is “to assert without a proof” which doesn’t reflect the facts of the case. There is a proof that he spoke out in favor of Abraham’s Lincoln Emancipation Proclamation. b.	The use of preach; in the context of a sermon preach will signify “to proclaim or to make known the gospel”, but we are dealing with a statement with regard to a historical event and not a biblical or theological issue. c.	The content should emphasize that the primary source, which is a direct speech, is more reliable than a reported sources; because in the direct speech we have both the content and the context. With out even going in any argument against or with the truthfulness of the writers.

So I would suggest that the sentence should be changed to " Rogers later in a documented Occasion(Sermon) spoke out in favor of the emancipation proclamation ,signed by President Abraham Lincoln, which restored the freedom to the slaves.he described ,in the same occasion,the slavery as it was practiced in the United States as "Unspeakably Immoral "

3. Regarding the technical problem that deprives you from listening to the sermon, you can move the audio content using the knob on the real player window to any specific point and just listen, so I think that this a good way to go around your technical issue that prevents you from confirming the reference”

I have written down the statements that support my point of view: Adrian Rogers Sermon Titled “Liberated Living” “http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Love_Worth_Finding/archives.asp?bcd=2010-4-13”

13:20-13:31 “..Suppose a man is a slave, he is owned by some one –Slavery as it was practiced in the United States was unspeakably Immoral”

41:58-42:10 “…Abraham Lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation, and that freed the slaves, and I am grateful for that” And he continued “But did you know that historians tell us that there were some slaves that continued to live in slavery, they stayed on the plantation. Do you know why? Some of them had never even heard about the emancipation proclamation, others of them had heard, but heard it un-intellectually and they didn’t believe; so sadly and tragically! they continued…"--PaulHijazin (talk) 18:20, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no substantial objection to your addition. I take you at your word regarding the sermon, but I will not be able to listen to it until later today.  I will add a proper reference for it then. Interwebs (talk) 19:02, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I am Adrian Rogers son. I know for a fact, personally, that he did not support slavery, with the only exception being a recognition of the Old Testament practice under the theocratic society of Israel, as stipulated by the Old Testament law. He never once suggested, however, that such Old Testament practices, carried out historically in a very specific context, justified in any way the modern-day practice of slavery, either in early American life, or anything similar.

Evidently, the quote by Cecil Sherman, in his autobiography, relaying a supposed personal conversation with my father, hinges on Sherman’s personal credibility. I was not there personally to verify what was or was not said in that conversation. However, I can say that the quote, as stands, in Wikipedia, is totally out of character for what my father may have normally said, and fails to provide the necessary context for understanding it correctly, even if it were recorded accurately.

It is also well known that Mr. Sherman has been actively vocal in his leadership on the opposite pole of my father in denominational politics, and his opposition to the movement with which my father was identified, and may well have motive for manifesting personal bias in the things he says and/or writes about my father.

Paul Pressler, in A Hill on which to Die, published in 1999, by Broadman & Holman Publishers, Nashville, TN, said the following, in regard to Mr. Sherman, and his conflicting statements on the authority of the Bible:

“Having listened to Cecil Sherman in later years and knowing he was one of the top leaders of the moderate cause in the Southern Baptist Convention controversy and later led the breakaway group, the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship (CBF), I have wondered whether he actually believed what he signed and told the deacons he believed, or whether he misrepresented himself. If he changed, I wondered when and what caused him to change, since he later took up a cause that is counter to this statement” (p. 23).

And, in regard to an election for the presidency of the Southern Baptist Convention:

“When the results were announced, Richard looked as if he had been crushed. He and his wife soon left the convention hall. I said to Nancy, ‘Praise God, the Southern Baptist Convention is being saved.’ Unbeknownst to me, Cecil Sherman and his wife Dot were sitting in front of us and heard me say that. Cecil later had some caustic remarks to make about my statement that day” (p. 116).

Jerry Sutton, in The Baptist Reformation, published in 2000, by Broadman & Holman Publishers, Nashville, TN, wrote the following:

“A November 30, 1982, article published in the Raleigh, North Carolina, newspaper by John Robinson was entitled, ‘Moderates Vow to Fight Swing to Conservatism Among Baptists.’ In the article Robinson said, ‘An influential group of Southern Baptist moderates agreed Monday to continue to fight the denomination’s move towards conservatism. “We will do our homework and try to popularize the views that we think are important to being a Baptist, views that are different from the fundamentalists,” said the Reverend Cecil E. Sherman, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Asheville and leader of the group that met Monday in Atlanta’” (p. 128).

“Meanwhile, moderates were continuing to articulate their displeasure with the entire direction of the Southern Baptist Convention, especially the work of the Peace Committee and the prospects of a peaceful coexistence around the norms established by the Peace Committee. In a page of quotes circulated in November 1986, two leaders of the moderates had very pointed remarks to say … Cecil Sherman, former member of the Peace Committee, said, ‘We have a problem. We are trying to live with some people we are not like, and it’s difficult. And we’re not going to live with those people forever. Why, on certain days, I wouldn’t even want to go to heaven with them’” (p. 180).

The following quotes, from recorded sermons preached at Bellevue Baptist Church, in Cordova, TN, demonstrate Adrian Rogers’ opposition to slavery:

1.	"Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation and the scourge and the blight of slavery began to be erased in this country. We still bear the scars of it. But you know the sad thing? When Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, potentially, potentially every slave was freed. But, you know, in actuality, every slave wasn't freed? Do you know why? Some of them didn't know it. Some of them didn't know it. And, do you know what else? Some of them who knew it, it was too big. They couldn't take it in. They just could not take it in. I mean, they'd been slaves so long, they just could not take it in. They could not believe it. So, while they knew it here, they didn't know how to reckon it here. And then, some of them continued to serve as slaves, because they'd served as slaves so long they were intimidated by their own master. And, he would tell them to do this and that, and they would yield to him, when they didn't have to. You see? Do you see, friend? What good is the gospel of Jesus Christ? What good is the gospel of grace? What good is God's Emancipation Proclamation, if you don't know it, if you don't reckon to it, and if you don't yield on it.”

Sermon title: “God versus Humanity” (catalogue #2050), preached on Feb. 15, 1998, at Bellevue Baptist Church, in Cordova, TN. Recording and transcript available from Love Worth Finding Ministries, P.O. Box 38300, Memphis, TN 38183-0300, Phone: (901) 382-7900 (8:00 am - 4:45 pm CT).

2. “Look, if you will, in verses 18 and 19: ‘Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. For this is thank worthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.” Now, the word servant here literally means household slave. It’s not talking about a domestic servant like we have today who is paid, but it’s talking about a person who is a slave. And these slaves were not inferior people. In that day, a man would have a doctor slave to take care of him. He would have a teacher slave to educate his children. But, Aristotle, uh, his philosophy had come to full flower, and he said, Aristotle said, “Master and slave had nothing in common. A slave is a living tool, just as a tool is an inanimate slave.” Slaves were not treated as persons; they were treated as things. And yet, Peter says, “Slaves, be in submission to your master as unto the Lord.” You say, well now, wait a minute. Shouldn’t we be against slavery? With all of our heart. And what Peter taught here brought slavery crashing down. He was speaking of reality. They found themselves in a situation over which they had no control. But he said, “Now, guard your spirit. Have a submissive spirit.” Maybe some of you today are not a slave in that sense, but you work for what you call a slave driver. Let me tell you something. There is no better place for you to demonstrate the power of the gospel of Jesus Christ if you have an unfair or an ungodly boss.”

Sermon title: “The Problem with Unworthy Authority” (catalogue #1958), preached on Nov. 3, 1996, at Bellevue Baptist Church, in Cordova, TN. Recording and transcript available from Love Worth Finding Ministries, P.O. Box 38300, Memphis, TN 38183-0300, Phone: (901) 382-7900 (8:00 am - 4:45 pm CT).

3.	“Suppose a man is a slave. He’s owned by someone. And slavery, as it was practiced in the United States, was unspeakably immoral. But, suppose a man had a slave. And, the master tells him when to go to bed, when to get up, what to eat, how to dress, what to do, where to go, where to come. And then, the slave dies. What then can his master do? Nothing. He is dead. You’re no longer Satan’s slave because of Calvary.”

Sermon title: “Liberated Living” (catalogue #2466), preached on Nov. 3, 1996, at Bellevue Baptist Church, in Cordova, TN. Recording and transcript available from Love Worth Finding Ministries, P.O. Box 38300, Memphis, TN 38183-0300, Phone: (901) 382-7900 (8:00 am - 4:45 pm CT).

4.	“Now, of course Christians are opposed to slavery. And, what Paul was talking about here were household slaves. Unjust slavery. But, he said, don’t have the spirit of a rebel. Now, today, we in America thank God we don’t have slavery as such.”

Sermon title: “The Problem of Unworthy Authorities” (catalogue #8203–KA), preached November, 2002, at Bellevue Baptist Church, in Cordova, TN. Recording and transcript available from Love Worth Finding Ministries, P.O. Box 38300, Memphis, TN 38183-0300, Phone: (901) 382-7900 (8:00 am - 4:45 pm CT).

Based on these statements from my father, Adrian Rogers, and the contradictory statements by Cecil Sherman, I recommend you delete all the comments regarding views on slavery attributed to my father by Mr. Sherman. David C Rogers (talk) 02:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

This whole thread is laughable and shows just how untrustworthy Wikipedia is regarding truth and people of faith, primarily those of right leaning persuasion. Dr. Rogers wife and four kids could verify that he never said anything remotely close to pro-slavery and have it certified and verified by God Himself and Wikipedia would doubt the source. Adrian Rogers was never a racist and never once gave any pinch of salt to supporting slavery. Wikipedia should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this one-sided joke to continue. Cecil Sherman HATED Adrian Rogers and this is just one last jab from beyond the grave that has no truth to it, to authenticity and absolutely no bearing whatsoever on who Adrian Rogers was as a man and as follower of the triune God. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fred Matthews (talk • contribs)

This article contained some major inaccuracies....
The article claimed that Rogers, "when he was no longer president" of the SBC, "significantly revised" the Baptist Faith and Message. The statement implied that he did so inappropriately and singlehandedly. The truth is, he was chairman of the committee that drew up a new Baptist Faith and Message. He was appointed by Dr. Paige Patterson (who was SBC president at the time), and his appointment was approved by the convention.

The article also claimed that Rogers is the only man to serve three terms as president of the SBC. Obviously the person who added this statement is quite ignorant of SBC history. Many of the early SBC presidents served several consecutive terms. Sometime in the mid-20th century the SBC adopted a new bylaw that prevented the president from serving more than two consecutive terms.97.73.64.169 (talk) 16:44, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

I wanted to address the statement regarding slavery from the article: "While Rogers has repeatedly taken a position against slavery in his sermons, moderate Cecil Sherman questioned Rogers about biblical inerrancy with reference to New Testament passages that seem to support slavery." What does that mean? If there is meaningful data to support the notion that Rogers supported slavery, let's make it available. Otherwise, it seems a bit leading and unfair. Most public figures face criticism from opponents, and NPOV requires that a reason be provided for an implication like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.170.131 (talk) 00:45, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

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Benedict Crowell

Benedict Crowell (October 12, 1869 – September 8, 1952) was a United States military officer and politician particularly influential in military organization during and following World War I. He was United States Assistant Secretary of War from 1917 to 1920.

Biography
Crowell was born on October 12, 1869, in Cleveland, Ohio, to William Crowell.

He attended Yale University, where he was admitted to the Zeta Psi fraternity, graduating in 1891 with both a Ph.D. and M.A. He returned to Cleveland to pursue a business career in steel and mining, and married Julia Cobb in December 1904.

As the First World War loomed, he rose quickly through the ranks of the United States Army Reserve, being made first an honorary major on his entry in 1916, and eventually a brigadier general before being tapped for political positions.

During the war he went on to serve as Assistant Secretary of War and Director of Munitions, founded the Army Ordnance Association in 1919, and eventually became a special consultant to the Secretary of War during World War II.

He remained influential and active in politics between the wars, serving as a principal framer of the National Defense Act of 1920, and was president of the Army Ordnance Association, a lobbying group, for a quarter of a century.

In December 1922 he was indicted with six others for conspiracy to defraud the US Government on contracts for construction of war camps. The indictment was dismissed on January 30, 1925.

He served as president of the National Rifle Association of America 1930–1931.

He died in Cleveland on September 8, 1952. Crowell is buried with his wife Julia Cobb Crowell, in Arlington National Cemetery.

Air crash
On 8 October 1919, Crowell was involved in an aviation accident at Roosevelt Field, Long Island, New York.

 * “MINEOLA, L. I., Oct. 8. – Benedict Crowell, assistant secretary of war, narrowly escaped injury this afternoon when an airplane in which he was riding, fell 50 feet to the ground here and overturned. Both Crowell and his pilot, Maurice Cleary, were buried under the machine, but escaped with a shaking up. The accident occurred when Cleary tried to avoid striking a hangar. Crowell announced his intention at once of going up in another machine.”

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Benedict Crowell


text:
User talk:Redwolf24/Bands

Oh man, The Cars are awesome!! Also, you should try out Duran Duran. Peaceman 01:00, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I shall. Thank you :) Redwolf24 12:10, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I listened to waaaaayyyyy too much of The Cars when I was in high school. Can't stand hearing them anymore. But I don't think they or Duran Duran fit your musical tastes.

 * Have you listened to The Sisters of Mercy? Or Joy Division? I think you might like them. -asx- 05:23, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I haven't even heard of those two bands haha... Redwolf24 05:47, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Wow, you got a lot of my favorite bands. You should try out these bands/solo artists: and other bands I sent to you on your talk page earlier. -- Mike Garcia | talk 05:07, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Bad Religion
 * Black Label Society (side project band of Ozzy Osbourne's Zakk Wylde)
 * Faith No More
 * Jerky Boys (they're prank call, not any kind of rock, rap or electronic music, just comedian)
 * Stuart Hamm (bass player of Joe Satriani and Steve Vai)
 * Pennywise
 * Primus
 * Bob Seger
 * Social D

As for Faith No More, I do listen to them. Black Label Society is in my "To Listen" group. The others I'll give a listen to some time :) Redwolf24 05:10, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

 * OK. Well, right now, I just want to say it was great talking to you about bands and other msuic. I'm going to bed soon, have a good night, Mr. Music Man! We'll talk about more bands and other music later (tomorrow, the next day, whatever). -- Mike Garcia | talk 05:12, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Suggestions from WolfDreams
I certainly recommend you check out Dillinger Escape Plan and Iced Earth. I know that you've already heard "43% Burnt" by Dillinger Escape Plan, so I'm sure you'd enjoy the rest of their stuff if you liked that song. They're about as complex and insane as it gets. As for Iced Earth, if you like Iron Maiden and other traditional metal, then you should like them as well. Really great stuff; thrashy riffs and extremely fast (and lengthy!) solos. Good vocals too, just be sure to try out the albums Burnt Offerings and Night of the Stormrider - they're my personal favorites. Just thought I'd comment, take care red.

Suggestions from the wub
Great stuff there, but why don't you like American Idiot?. I think you might like Everclear, and if you're after a bit of straight up classic punk, you can't really go wrong with The Buzzcocks. Manic Street Preachers are excellent as well, they earlier stuff is more punk and their recent stuff is more mature, but its all good IMO. I'll have to make one of these pages myself sometime.

 * The reason I don't like American Idiot is its way to poppy for me and not to mention a bit too political. As Alice Cooper once said, "To me, that's treason. I call it treason against rock 'n' roll because rock is the antithesis of politics. Rock should never be in bed with politics. When I was a kid and my parents started talking about politics, I'd run to my room and put on the Rolling Stones as loud as I could. So when I see all these rock stars up there talking politics, it makes me sick. If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are. Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal. I think we all should support a great guy like Bush and Rock Stars should back him up." Redwolf24 02:35, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh one other thing, American Idiot as a rock opera doesnt even compare in depth to that of Tommy or Quadrophenia. I mean cmon the main character is "Jesus of Suburbia". (Eh I seem to be coming off a bit hostile, know that that is NOT my intent.) Redwolf24 02:44, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh I agree, I wish Green Day wouldn't keep trying to push their political views. But personally I still think American Idiot is a great album musically and lyrically, maybe not as deep as the ones you mentioned but a pretty great development for a punk band who used to write songs about masturbation. IMO apart from the title track it isn't really all that political, it's more about teenage angst and 'finding oneself' (shudder... I hate that phrase, but it seems the only way to describe it) At least they're better than Michael Moore. the wub  "?/!"  08:25, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Suggestions
The Cure, Smashing Pumpkins, Billy Corgan's solo stuff, Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Minor Threat, Mind Funk, Zwan, Tool, A Perfect Circle, The Melvins, Mudhoney, Murderdolls, Temple of the Dog, New Order, and Black Flag. thats just some of my suggestions seeing as to what you have on your list. Jobe6 08:00, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Linkin Park
Listen to them! NOW!!! Go! Get away from your computer, run to a store and by one or their CD's! Father Howabout1 Talk to me! 01:39, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

 * I thought I mentioned that I hate them. Sorry! Redwolf24 03:51, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

 * P Father Howabout1 Talk to me! 19:19, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

Suggestion from Jaxl
You should check out Robert Palmer. He's got a couple of good songs, such as "Simply Irresistable". I also saw you've never head of Everclear (it had the asterisk). If you have yet to hear them, I suggest you listen to the songs "A.M. Radio" and "Otis Redding" on the album Songs from an American Movie, Vol. 1: Learning How to Smile (I think that album's one of their best). Jaxl | talk 00:48, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot one more. Electric Light Orchestra is pretty good — "Mr. Blue Sky" is one of their best songs. Jaxl | talk 21:54, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I can't believe I forgot to mention ELO on my bands to try out! *takes credit* Redwolf24 22:29, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Suggestions from Michael
Before I say something else, you never heard Minor Threat? I just saw the asterisk. They were just an early 80s hardcore punk band which included recent Bad Religion guitarist Brian Baker and Fugazi singer Ian MacKaye.

Here are some other bands you may as well check out:
 * ALL (a band who included Descendents members after splitting up)
 * Aleka's Attic (it included actor River Phoenix, just a few years before he died on Halloween Day 1993)
 * Blink-182
 * Conflict (related to Crass)
 * Crass (a Wikipedia user Quercusrobur has known a lot about those guys, that's where he got all the information)
 * Descendents
 * Fear Factory
 * Institute (a new band project of Bush's frontman Gavin Rossdale)
 * Michael Schenker (guitarist of The Scorpions and UFO)
 * Millencolin
 * Operation Ivy (included Rancid members)
 * NOFX
 * Rancid
 * Joe Satriani (one of my guitar heroes of all time)
 * Skid Row
 * Spinal Tap
 * Strapping Young Lad (included Steve Vai guitarist Devin Townsend and Fear Factory's current bassist Byron Stroud)
 * Steve Vai (another one of my guitar heroes of all time)
 * T. Rex
 * The Transplants (side project band of blink-182 drummer Travis Barker and Rancid frontman Tim Armstrong)
 * The Vandals

Anyway, I'd just want to say "nice job" for all those music-related articles you've done. I just really can't even tell how much I've been liking music in years. -- Mike Garcia | talk 04:19, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

More suggestions
Cheap Trick and Mayhem (band), I saw cheap trick last thursday and they were awesome. Mayhmes good if u like Black Metal. Jobe 6   01:35, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Intrested in metal bands?
Here are some metal bands you might be intrested in which what have you heard of or never before: Again, I'd just want to say "nice job" for all those music-related articles you've worked on. -- Mike Garcia | talk 03:53, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept
 * Badlands (included Ozzy Osbourne's Bark at the Moon to The Ultimate Sin-era guitarist Jake E. Lee)
 * Danzig (started by singer Glenn Danzig after Samhain broke up)
 * Dark Angel
 * Death (one of the legendary death metal band of the 80s)
 * Death Angel
 * Dokken
 * Exodus
 * Living Colour
 * The Misfits
 * Morbid Angel
 * Obituary
 * Overkill
 * Possessed (a band that included Larry LaLonde before he joined Primus)
 * Samhain (started by singer Glenn Danzig after The Misfits broke up)
 * Testament
 * Venom

Neil Young
You don't have Neil Young!!! --hydnjo talk 23:18, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

 * He's under to try out ;-) R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 23:28, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Bands
It's usually kind of odd to edit a user subpage, but I just stuck two bands I thought you should try right on your list, so you don't have to do it yourself. :) Jacqui  ★ 03:54, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

My suggestion...
Hello, I recently discovered a band called The Secret Machines, and I suggest you give them a listen. I recently started articles here on Wikipedia concerning two of their albums.

If you decide to try them out, I hope you like them. :) Albrozdude 03:40, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Redwolf24/Bands


text: User talk:172.156.230.181

title: User talk:172.156.230.181


text:
Luigi Barzini Jr.

Luigi Barzini Jr. (21 December 1908 – 30 March 1984) was an Italian journalist, writer and politician most famous for his 1964 book The Italians, delving deeply into the Italian national character and introducing many English and German speaking readers to Italian life and culture.

Early life
Barzini junior was born in Milan, Lombardy, the son of Luigi Barzini Sr., a famous journalist. In the 1920s, his father left the Corriere della Sera and moved to the United States, where he directed the Italian-American newspaper Corriere d'America from 1923 to 1931.

After completing his studies in Italy and at Columbia University, Barzini Jr. worked for two New York newspapers, including the New York World. In 1928, together with Richard Washburn Child, former Ambassador to Italy and a supporter of Benito Mussolini, he ghostwrote The Autobiography of Benito Mussolini. He returned to Italy in 1930 to become a correspondent for Corriere della Sera.

His father, who was made senator in 1934, had pro-Fascist sentiments and had access to highest political circles of Benito Mussolini's Fascist regime. Luigi Jr., however, frequently associated with the younger generation of fascists around Galeazzo Ciano, the Italian Minister of Foreign Affairs and Mussolini's son-in-law.

Panay incident
As the Corriere della Sera Asian correspondent, he went to China. On 11 December 1937, he was aboard the USS Panay (PR-5) on the Yangtze Patrol in Nanking at the prompting of George Atcheson, a U.S. Embassy official. Also aboard were Universal News cameraman Norman Alley, Movietone News' Eric Mayell, the New York Times's Norman Soong, Collier's Weekly correspondent Jim Marshall, and La Stampa correspondent Sandro Sandri. Atcheson had invited them aboard the Panay so that they could document the fall of the city from relative safety. The four journalists had been covering the ongoing Japanese invasion of China in the mid-1930s, and found themselves in the thick of things in early December 1937 as Japanese forces moved on Nanking.

According to Alley, writing in his memoir I Witness, Atcheson proclaimed that aboard the gunboat the group would be "as safe as you would be on good old American soil." Little did any of them know that in just a week's time, the Panay would be attacked and sunk, Sandri killed, and that they would witness the Rape of Nanking.

During the attack Barzini, although wounded, performed heroically helping to bring the wounded ashore and providing first aid to the best of his ability. As Sandri, known as "the Floyd Gibbons of Italy," was stretched out in the reeds with excruciatingly painful, fatal stomach wounds, Barzini could only comfort him with an occasional cigarette and a word from time to time. This episode of the incident was captured on Alley's and Mayell's cameras and in a 1937 Wide World Photos shot titled "Consoling dying Panay victim".

Banned by the Fascists
In April 1940, he was arrested on charges of leaking confidential information to the enemy and making disparaging remarks about Mussolini. He was confined by the Fascists to forced residence in a village for five years. In 1944, when Rome was liberated, he returned to journalism.

Journalism
In 1944 he resumed his journalistic career as the editor-in-chief of daily and weekly publications. He founded Il Globo. Subsequently, he served in turn as the chief editor of several newspapers and magazines.

Parliamentarian
A staunch anti-Communist, he was a member of the Italian Chamber of Deputies from 1958 to 1972, for the centre-right Italian Liberal Party (Partito Liberale Italiano – PLI).

Later life and family
He was the father of five children, and lived on a small farm near Rome, where he produced his own olive oil, wine, vegetables, and fruit. Barzini died in 1984 of cancer at his home in Rome. His son is the filmmaker Andrea Barzini and his granddaughter is the writer Chiara Barzini. His daughter Benedetta, by his first wife Giannalisa Feltrinelli, was a successful fashion model during the 1960s. His marriage to Feltrinelli also made him the stepfather of Italian publisher and left-wing political activist Giangiacomo Feltrinelli, of whom Barzini eventually disapproved, saying that he thought Giangiacomo preferred the company of men who "despised the masses as he did, who thought them something they could play with." Barzini also rejected as implausible conspiracy theories concerning Giangiacomo's death.

Works

 * Americans are Alone in the World (1953)
 * The Italians (1964)
 *  Die Italiener, German Edition, Publisher: Heinrich Scheffler GmbH & Co., Frankfurt a. M. (1965)
 * From Caesar to the Mafia: Sketches of Italian Life (1971)
 * O, America! (1977); US title: O America: When You and I Were Young
 * The Impossible Europeans (1983); US title: The Europeans

title: Luigi Barzini Jr.


text:
1939–40 in English football

The 1939–40 season was the 65th season of competitive football in England. It was suspended in September after the outbreak of World War II.

Overview
World War II broke out early into this season. Shortly after war was declared, most competitions, including the Football League, were abandoned as the country's attention turned to the war effort. A few leagues, such as the Northern League, did manage to complete a season, but more than half of the teams were unable to fulfil all their fixtures and resigned.

Blackpool sat at the top of the First Division table at the time the abandonment occurred. The FA Cup Extra-Preliminary Round was played, but with hostilities declared before replays took place, that competition too was abandoned. Entry fees received for the 1939–40 Cup were honoured for the next Cup in 1945–46.

Many footballers signed up to fight in the war and as a result many teams were depleted, and fielded guest players instead. Regional league competitions were set up. Appearances in these tournaments do not count in players' official records. The FA Cup was resumed for the 1945–46 season and The Football League for the 1946–47 season.

Wartime
After the abandonment of the football programme, the league was split into ten mini regional leagues. A national cup competition was also held.

title: 1939–40 in English football


text:
1945–46 in English football

The 1945–46 season was the 66th season of competitive football in England.

Overview
1945–46 was the first peacetime football season since the 1939–40 season was cut short due to World War II. On 7 May (as the war was ending), it was announced that the FA Cup would be resumed, and that the 44 clubs in the top two divisions of the 1938–39 season would play in the Football League North and Football League South without promotion and relegation from the previous peacetime season. This arrangement was debated by the clubs over the following two months – with Wolverhampton Wanderers proposing an immediate return to a peacetime Football League as was to happen in France – before it was agreed at The Football League's annual meeting in London on 25 July that regional leagues should continue for one more season.

To make up for the lack of quality matches, all FA Cup rounds from round one up to and including the quarter-finals were made two-legged ties (rather than the traditional single matches) with the aggregate score determining who went through to the next round. Derby County eventually won the Cup.

From the next season, a full football programme was restored, including The Football League and international matches.

Honours
Notes = Number in parentheses is the times that club has won that honour. * indicates new record for competition

title: 1945–46 in English football


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Stephen Kamer

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was speedy delete. – ABCD 16:04, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Paul Stephen Kamer
Nonsensical, non-notable, and probably a hoax. Delete. Natalinasmpf 01:02, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Hoax, vandalism, nonsense. jni 06:04, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Asp (rocket)

ASP, (Atmospheric Sounding Projectile is the designation of an American sounding rocket family.   ASP-I was used to sample nuclear explosions and resultant clouds The ASP was the fastest single stage sounding rocket when developed. The Asp was manufactured by Cooper Development Corporation, California. The solid propellant motor was made by Grand Central Rocket company.

The ASP-I has a payload ability of 11 kg, a maximum flight height of 110 km, a takeoff thrust of 42.00 kN, a mass of 111 kg, a diameter of 0.17 m, a length of 3.68 m and a fin span of 0.51 m. The ASP rocket was used in connection with other sounding rockets.

ASP-II (Cleansweep I) had a slightly lower total impulse and a significantly shorter burn time (3.6 seconds vs. 5.6). Cleansweep I was used to collect particulate air sample from nuclear explosions at the Nevada Test Range.

ASP-III (Cleansweep II) had slightly lower specs. It was also modified for use in the South Pacific. Two or four LOKI rockets were strapped on the basic ASP. Results were less than expected and ASP-III was a failure.

ASP-IV used an ASP motor case with B.F. Goodrich E-107M propellant.

ASP-V was to utilize a polysulfide propellant but erratic burning and resultant burn through proved insoluble. ASP-V was canceled.

ASP was combined with a Nike booster to create the ASPAN which exceeded performance of the Nike-Cajun and Nike Deacon.

When ASP-I was combined with a one-fifth scale Sergeant this was designates as ASCAMP (also known as Nike-ASP ). ASCAMP had to be launched from a remotely controlled launcher due to the necessary closeness to the nuclear blast.

In NASA service it was flown from a number of locations as a sounding rocket. ASP was used for a variety of uses, including research into hypersonic speed and to propel rocket sleds. The selection by NASA of the Apache and Javelin rockets for the jobs performed by ASP led to its retirement.

title: Asp (rocket)


text:
Maraba

Maraba may refer to:
 * Marabá, Pará, a municipality (município) in the state of Pará in Brazil
 * Marabá Paulista, a municipality in the state of São Paulo in Brazil
 * Maraba, Rwanda, a location in southern Rwanda
 * Maraba Coffee, a fairtrade coffee produced in the Maraba area of Rwanda
 * Maraba, Nasarawa state, the border between Abuja and nasarawa state Nigeria

title: Maraba


text:
Talk:Pandolfo Petrucci

Untitled
German wikipedia has a different birthyear

title: Talk:Pandolfo Petrucci


text:
Talk:Human Cannonball (album)

VfD results
This article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep, but move to this title. For details, please see Votes for deletion/Human Cannonball. -- BD2412 talk 03:03, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Schooloffish hc.jpg
Image:Schooloffish hc.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Human Cannonball (album)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nuohkgp

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was speedily deleted per request by author and voters supporting that. jni 05:46, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Nuohkgp
Spam for for some non-notable organization. --Canderson7 01:06, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable, or else nonsense and/or a hoax. Gwk 01:08, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I thought Wikipedia was supposed to have all the information it could have, I am sorry for spamming. Please accept my apologies. AlexJohnc3 21:23, 11 July 2005 (EST)
 * Speedy, as its own creator has even blanked it. -mysekurity 01:49, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy as per above. royblumy 05:15, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nuohkgp


text:
Talk:Harry Stinson

Untitled
Can anyone upload his picture. Maybe some comments about his 2am marketing.

Pic: http://www.thecondoshow.com/images/harry2.jpg

BTW it is indeed a 90-storey tower as planned. National Post information is old. If you dig back long enough, this tower was originally 45-storeys when first launched as the Downtown Plaza by Stinson.

VFD results
This article has survived a VFD nomination with the result of No consensus. --Allen3 talk 01:06, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

This Stinson character is funny! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.186.29.65 (talk) 02:39, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Harry Stinson


text:
User talk:Adyakaushik

Hi, My name is Kaushik Adya and I am a graduate student at Southern Illinois University's Department of COmputer Science. I will be graduating very soon and I am looking out for jobs. Thanks.

title: User talk:Adyakaushik


text:
Richard Décarie

Richard Décarie is a Canadian politician and business consultant from Montréal, Québec.

Background
Décarie holds a bachelor’s degree in finance from Université du Québec à Montréal, and a Master's degree in philosophy from Université de Sherbrooke.

Business and media career
Décarie has worked for World Vision Canada, the Quebec Food Processing Council (CTAQ), and the Associations touristiques régionales associées du Québec (ATRAQ).

In 2014, Décarie co-hosted the lunchtime talk show Duhaime le midi with Éric Duhaime on RNC Media’s Radio X Montréal 91.9FM. From September 2014 to August 2015, Décarie was the political commentator on the same station’s daily morning talk show, Lemieux in the Morning.

Political career
Décarie was deputy chief of staff to Stephen Harper while he was the Leader of the Official Opposition, after he became leader of the Conservative Party of Canada. He had previously been chief of staff and senior advisor to then Premier of Quebec Daniel Johnson Jr.

Conservative leadership campaign
Décarie announced his candidacy for the 2020 Conservative Party leadership race. Public and party criticism followed his statements regarding LGBTQ2 rights after mentioning he would "defund abortion", that being gay is a "choice" and that marriage should be reserved for a "man and a woman." The Conservative Party's Leadership Candidate Nomination Committee decided not to approve Décarie's candidacy for party leadership in the month following these statements.

title: Richard Décarie


text:
Joachim Sauer

Joachim Sauer ForMemRS (born 19 April 1949) is a German quantum chemist and professor emeritus of physical and theoretical chemistry at the Humboldt University of Berlin. He is the husband of the former chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel. He is one of the seven members of the board of trustees of the Friede Springer Foundation, together with former German president Horst Köhler and others.

Education and early life

Joachim Sauer was born in Hosena, a small town in the marshy Lusatian countryside between Dresden and Cottbus. He grew up with his twin sister and an elder brother. His father, Richard Sauer, had trained as a confectioner, but worked as an insurance representative. Sauer excelled at school.

Career and research
Sauer studied chemistry from 1967 to 1972 at the Humboldt University of Berlin and was awarded a doctorate in chemistry in 1974. He continued to do research there until 1977, when he joined the Academy of Sciences, Central Institute of Physical Chemistry in Berlin, one of the leading scientific institutes of the former GDR (East Germany).

For a brief time during and after the German reunification (1990–1991) he was the deputy technical director (catalysis and sorption) for BIOSYM Technologies in San Diego, California (now BIOVIA). He remained an advisor for BIOSYM until 2002.

In 1992, he joined the Max Planck Society as head of the Quantum Chemistry Group in Berlin. In 1993, he became full professor of physical and theoretical chemistry at the Humboldt University of Berlin. He retired from his chair in October 2017 and was succeeded by Martin Schütz, who died the following year. Sauer remains affiliated with the university as a senior research fellow.

He is an active research scientist in quantum chemistry and computational chemistry. His computational studies have allowed for a better understanding of the structures and activities of some catalysts such as zeolites, specifically their acid sites, as well as the interpretation of solid state NMR spectra of nucleus Si-29, and quadrupolar nuclei such as Na-23,  Al-27 and O-17.

Awards and honours

 * 1991: Chemistry Prize of the Göttingen Academy of Sciences and Humanities
 * 1995: Member of the Berlin-Brandenburg Academy of Sciences and Humanities
 * 2006: External scientific member of the Fritz Haber Institute of the Max Planck Society
 * 2007: Member of the Academy of Sciences Leopoldina
 * 2009: Member of the Academia Europaea
 * 2010: Liebig Medal
 * 2013: Honorary Doctor of Science, University College London
 * 2018: Foreign Member of the Royal Society
 * 2019: Schrödinger Medal

Personal life
From his previous marriage to a fellow chemist, Sauer has two sons: Daniel and Adrian. On 30 December 1998, he married Angela Merkel (herself a doctor of physics who had once worked in quantum chemistry research), who later became the chairwoman of the Christian Democratic Union. Due to the fact that Merkel became the first female chancellor of Germany on 22 November 2005, Sauer also assumed a role in diplomatic protocol as third-highest ranking spouse. In German order of precedence, the chancellor is the third-highest ranking office behind the President of Germany and the President of the Bundestag.

Because of his wife's political career, Sauer has received far more media attention than is usual for a research scientist. On several occasions, he has stated that he is not fond of this publicity.

During the 2005 election campaign Sauer kept a very low profile, declining to give any interviews not related to his scientific work. He attended the Bayreuth Festival, an opera festival and a highly visible social event in Germany, with his wife. Sauer is known as a great lover of Wagner's music.

Even during his wife's election in the Bundestag, her inauguration, and later her taking the oath of office, Sauer was not present but reportedly briefly followed the event on TV from his university chemistry lab.

title: Joachim Sauer


text:
Jeffrey Mylett

Jeffrey Mylett (June 8, 1949 – May 7, 1986) was an American actor and songwriter. He was best known for his roles in both the stage and film productions of Godspell.

Personal life
Mylett was born in North Canton, Ohio. He attended Hoover High School and studied theater at Carnegie Mellon University.

He followed the spiritual teacher Meher Baba, and he appears in The God-Man, a documentary about Meher Baba produced for Australian television in 1976. In the documentary, Mylett is interviewed and performs his song, "House of the Lord."

Mylett died at the age of 36 in Los Angeles in 1986 as a result of complications of HIV/AIDS.

Theater, film, and television
He appeared in the original off-Broadway production of Godspell in 1971. During the musical's initial two-week run at La MaMa Experimental Theatre Club, the show featured songs by cast members, including two songs by Mylett. A team of producers then transferred the show to commercial theaters and hired Stephen Schwartz to compose a new score. All the original songs were replaced, except for "By My Side" by Jay Hamburger and Peggy Gordon.

Mylett also appeared in Thoughts, written by Godspell castmate Lamar Alford, at La MaMa in 1972 and again in 1973. In 1974, he appeared in the Broadway musical The Magic Show, in which he was Doug Henning's understudy and played Henning's role while he was away. During Mylett's scheduled appearances in the show, the character's name was changed from "Doug" to "Jeff."

In early 1977, he participated in the workshop which created the musical Working. When the show premiered at the Goodman Theatre in Chicago and later on Broadway, the roles Mylett had developed in the workshop were performed by Joe Mantegna.

Mylett recreated his stage role in the 1973 film version of Godspell. He also appeared in the films Money Talks (1972), Brewster's Millions (1985), and My Man Adam (1985).

He hosted The Rock 'n' Fun Magic Show, a 1975 television special featuring music, magic, and comedy. The special featured appearances by Doug Henning, Bill Cosby, and the Hudson Brothers, among others. The series initially intended to follow this special was never produced.

title: Jeffrey Mylett


text:
User:Nathan8225

Man of Science. Man of Faith. Hopeless Romantic. Cynical realist. A Geek that spends his free time soaking up mostly useless knowledge. tumblelog twitter

title: User:Nathan8225


text:
Lee Valley VeloPark

Lee Valley VeloPark is a cycling centre in Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park in Stratford, London, England. It is owned and managed by Lee Valley Regional Park Authority, and it was opened to the public in March 2014. The facility was one of the permanent venues for the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Lee Valley VeloPark is at the northern end of Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park. It has an indoor velodrome and a BMX racing track, which have been used for the Games, as well as a one-mile (1.6 km) road course and 5 miles (8 km) of mountain bike trails. The park replaces the Eastway Cycle Circuit demolished to make way for it. The facilities built for the Olympics were constructed between 2009 and 2011. The first event in the Velopark was the London round of the 2011 UCI BMX Supercross World Cup series.

Planning
In February 2005, plans were announced for a £22 million VeloPark. Sport England would invest £10.5 million, Lee Valley Regional Park Authority £6 million and the Mayor of London and Transport for London would invest £3 million and £2.5 million respectively. The site was to be 34 hectares on the northern end of the proposed Olympic Park, next to the A12. The park would include a velodrome seating 1,500, which could be increased to 6,000 if London's bid for the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games were successful. The site would also have an international competition BMX circuit, a BMX freestyle park, cyclo-cross/cross-country course mountain bike course and an outdoor cycle speedway track. The facilities would be used by internationals as well as those learning to ride. It was estimated that the park would attract 88,000 users a year, replacing the Eastway Cycle Circuit. Eastway Cycle Circuit opened in 1975, it was the first purpose built road cycling venue in Britain.

The facility closed in September 2006 to make way for London's VeloPark. The velodrome is the third 250 m covered track in Great Britain. In September 2008 plans for the VeloPark were revealed, which were chosen with help from Chris Hoy. However, by March 2007, the VeloPark was revealed to be only a third of its original size, rescaled from 34 to 10 hectares. The decrease in the size of the site led to users of the Eastway cycle circuit to protest to the Mayor of London.

Builders
On 12 July 2007, the Olympic Delivery Authority selected the design team: Hopkins Architects, Expedition Engineering, BDSP, and Grant Associates, following an architectural design competition managed by RIBA Competitions.

The Velopark was scheduled to be completed by the contractor, ISG, in 2011. In 2004, during London's Olympic and Paralympic bid, the estimated cost was £37 million, including £20 million for the velodrome.

Velodrome
In 2009, at the time work began on the construction of the velodrome, the estimated cost of that facility alone was £105 million. Work on the velodrome was completed in February 2011, and was the first Olympic Park venue to be completed. The roof is designed to reflect the geometry of cycling as well as being lightweight and efficient reflecting a bike. There is also a 360-degree concourse level with windows allowing people views of the Olympic Park. The velodrome is energy efficient—rooflights reduce the need for artificial lights, and natural ventilation reduces the need for air condition. Rain water is also collected, which reduces the amount of water used from the municipal water system. Designer Ron Webb, who designed the velodrome tracks for the Sydney and Athens Games, was in charge of the design and installation of the track. The 250-metre track was made with 56 km of Siberian Pine and 350,000 nails.

The velodrome was officially opened by many successful British athletes including Chris Hoy and Victoria Pendleton. It is informally known as "The Pringle" due to its distinctive shape. It was shortlisted for the 2011 RIBA Stirling Prize. and won the 2011 Structural Awards Supreme Award for Structural Engineering. In 2011, it also won the Prime Minister's Better Public Building Award at British Construction Industry Awards.

The venue was used for the first time in competition during the UCI Track Cycling World Cup in February 2012. The velodrome was also used for the 2012 Paralympics.

BMX track
The outdoor BMX racing track was scheduled to have a spectator capacity of 6,000. Work began on its construction in March 2011. After the games the seating was removed and the track reconfigured to accommodate all abilities. The first competition on the venue was the test event for the Olympic Games, a round of the 2011 UCI Supercross BMX World Cup series. The track for men is 470 metres long and features a berm jump, an S-bend transfer, a box jump and a rhythm section in the final straight. The women's course is 430 metres long featuring three jumps in the opening straight and a tunnel before like the men's including a rhythm section in the final straight. It has been called one of the most challenging BMX tracks to date. The track also features an 8-metre high starting ramp and was designed by the UCI with the aim of pushing the boundaries of the sport. 14000 m3 of soil was used to build the track. After the Supercross world cup event, Shanaze Reade called for changes to the track. She stated that the track was "on the limit" if the wind changed. Sarah Walker echoed Reade's calls stating that the track could "get ugly" on a windy day.

In preparation for the 2012 Summer Olympics, in 2010 the Dutch National Olympic Committee commissioned a replica of the planned BMX track at their National Sports Centre Papendal. It came into use in March 2011, ahead of the hand over of the London Velopark BMX venue.

London 2012
The venue was used for the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic track cycling competition was held in the Velodrome with the adjoining BMX track hosting the Olympic BMX competition. Team GB dominated the track cycling competition winning seven out of a possible ten gold medals plus one silver and one bronze. The GB Paralympic track cycling team won a total of 15 medals, comprising five golds, seven silver and three bronze.

Post-games
The Eastway Cycle Circuit was demolished for the VeloPark before being merged with the new park. It was announced that along with the VeloPark there would be three new cycle circuits created around London. In early February 2007 the plans for the VeloPark were revised with no mountain bike course. By mid-February it was announced that Hog Hill would be the temporary relocation of the Eastway Cycle Centre. The promised cycle speedway track will not be built. In August 2011 it was announced that the road race course will be rerouted to allow more space and parkland after suggestions from Sport England and British Cycling. The course will now cross the River Lee and parkland linking up with other cycle routes in London.

British Cycling will remain based at the Olympic-standard Manchester Velodrome which has been a catalyst for the success of British Cycling in recent years, most notably at the 2008 Olympic Games. Team manager of British Cycling, David Brailsford has stated that the new indoor National BMX Arena in Manchester and the undulating terrain of North West England, ideal for practising road race cycling, offer a distinct advantage over London. An agreement was struck in 2012 to bring track cycling to the London Velodrome post-2012 Olympics, with events such as Revolution series which have proved popular in Manchester. In September 2013 the UCI announced that the Velodrome will host the 2016 UCI Track Cycling World Championships.

The London Development Agency (LDA) have funded a new permanent road cycle circuit and mountain bike course at the Redbridge Cycling Centre, costing £5m. The London Borough of Redbridge will be funding the facility up to the completion of the legacy London Velopark. Work is underway to identify an operator of Hog Hill beyond 2012.

Later events
Since opening for the public in March 2014, Lee Valley VeloPark has staged a number of major international events. The first that took place in the venue was the grand finale of the Revolution series in February 2014. This was followed by the opening round of the 2014–15 Revolution Series in October 2014 and in December 2014, the UCI Track Cycling World Cup took place at Lee Valley VeloPark. In February 2015, round five of the Revolution Series was staged at the venue while in February 2016, it hosted the 2016 UCI Track Cycling World Championships.

On 7 June 2015, Sir Bradley Wiggins broke the UCI Hour record at the Velodrome, setting a distance of 54.526 km.

The facility hosted the 2022 Commonwealth Games track cycling competition.

Velodrome awards

 * Winner 2011 the Architects' Journal 100 Building of the Year Awards
 * Winner 2011 Prime Minister's Better Public Building Award
 * Winner 2011 RIBA (Royal Institute of British Architects) Stirling Prize for Architecture Public Vote
 * Finalist 2011 RIBA Stirling Prize for Architecture
 * Winner 2011 IStructE (The Institution of Structural Engineers) Structural Awards Supreme Award for Structural Engineering
 * Winner 2012 Architecture Award Design Museum's Design Awards
 * Winner 2012 Elle Decoration British Design Awards
 * Winner 2013 International Association for Bridge and Structural Engineering Outstanding Structure Award

title: Lee Valley VeloPark


text:
Boone Speedway

Boone Speedway, also known as “Iowa’s Action Track", is a 1/3-mile high-banked dirt oval raceway located in Boone, Iowa. Races are held on Saturday nights sanctioned by the IMCA. Regular events include IMCA Modifieds, IMCA Stock Cars, IMCA Northern Sport Modifieds, IMCA Hobby Stocks, and IMCA Mod Lites. The track's weekly races can be viewed on IMCA.tv streaming platform.

History
Boone Speedway opened as a 3/8th mile high banked dirt track in 1967 and was built by Vern Carman. The track was built due to the limitations and small size of the Dayton track that Vern promoted and was closed in 1967. The first documented race was The Grand National on July 23, 1967 with a $4,000 purse. Boone ran weekly races as well as several special races annually such as The Grand Nationals, the Tri-State 100, the Deery Brothers IMCA Late Model Series, IMCA Super Nationals, and Hawkeye 50. Ramo Stott, a former ARCA champion and Daytona 500 pole sitter competed at Boone in the 1970's.

Throughout the 1990's and early 2000's numerous upgrades were made to the track. These included upgraded walls along the front and back stretch, increased catwalks and pit side grandstands, a new leader board, and safety enhancements. In addition, a jet dryer was purchased which is claimed to be the only jet dryer in dirt track racing. Over the years a number of John Deere tractors have been purchased to prepare the track. This has been dubbed farming the track which has become popularized with the playing of "Green Acres" during the prep and through the sale of track merchandise.

IMCA Super Nationals
During the first week of September, Boone Speedway holds the Speedway Motor's IMCA Super Nationals racing event. Many of the top drivers from across the United States come to Boone to compete in the weeklong event. The event is the crown jewel of the series. Making the final feature is considered a career highlight. In 2022 995 cars registered for the race. The events are broadcast on the IMCA.tv.

The IMCA Super Nationals were first held in Vinton, Iowa in 1983. After moving to different tracks the Super Nationals found a permanent home at the Boone Speedway. Today the race is a weeklong featuring the IMCA Sport Compacts, IMCA Hobby Stocks, IMCA Northern Sport Mods, IMCA Stock Cars, IMCA Late Models, and IMCA Modifieds. From 1989 to 2008 the IMCA Sprint Cars also competed in the event.

Besides racing the Super Nationals also feature a Cornhole Tourney. Previously there were a number of other events including a golf tournament, pit crew competition, and several unofficial activities. One of the most well known among racers is the engine auction following Saturday's championships. The auction total for each class gets dispersed to each driver who started the feature. The winning driver gets a new IMCA legal engine donated by Karl Performance in Des Moines.

Hawkeye 50/100
The Hawkeye 50/100 is a World of Outlaws Late Model Series race that was scheduled to begin in 2020. Due to the Covid 19 Pandemic the inaugural race was canceled. The initial event was a two-day event held April 30 - May 1, 2021. This two-day event featured the WoO Late Models, IMCA SportMods, IMCA Stock Cars, and IMCA Modifieds. The initial event had "Twin Hawk" features for the late models paying $2,500 to the winner of each race. The Saturday race was the highest paying in Boone history with $1,500 to start and $30,000 to win. In 2022 the event was downsized to one day due to shortages of both dirt racing tires and racing fuel. This created a one-day 50- lap event with a $20,000 purse. The support class for the second event was the IMCA Northern Sport Mods.

title: Boone Speedway


text: User talk:71.241.177.80

title: User talk:71.241.177.80


text:
User talk:Falphin/My version

I'm not sure how to conform this to the Categories under vote. My suggestion proposes the creation of new categories. I'm not sure how that will work with the voting if at all. In that case it is fine if my version is declared invalid. I can't say I like the current categories being voted on either as I feel that its not that defined. Falphin 01:10, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm going to include all the templates in the section, I have two proposals so I guess they would just be voted on seperately. I believe it can be figured out. My other templates would just be considered invalid for vote Falphin 01:21, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Falphin/My version


text:
User talk:Astronomy Divine

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles will be removed quickly. Please see the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. Joyous (talk) 20:01, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Old messages
Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. CryptoDerk 01:11, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Don't vandalise, you will be blocked. Evil Monkey∴Hello 04:15, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Please stop vandalizing wikipedia. --DuKot 02:31, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Astronomy Divine


text:
Talk:Transport Workers Act 1928

Australian Council of Trade Unions
The Australian Council of Trade Unions formed in 1927. Therefore, this legislation could not be a factor in the formation of the ACTU. It may have given some impetus to the consolidation of the ACTU.--Takver 01:11, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Transport Workers Act 1928


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of counties in Yegi by population

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was speedily deleted as vandalism and/or patent nonsense. jni 06:08, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

List of counties in Yegi by population
Unencylopedic, poor context; I can't possibly see how this could be useful. Delete. Natalinasmpf 01:11, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedily deleted as patent nonsense/hoax. Yegi's not a state and nothing listed is a county. --FCYTravis 01:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text: User talk:68.7.6.238

title: User talk:68.7.6.238


text:
ISPE

ISPE may refer to:

 * International Society for Pharmacoepidemiology
 * Instituto Superior Parque de España
 * International Society for Philosophical Enquiry; see
 * 4-(cytidine 5'-diphospho)-2-C-methyl-D-erythritol kinase (IspE)

title: ISPE


text:
Poi Dog Pondering

Poi Dog Pondering is an American musical group which is noted for its cross-pollination of diverse musical genres, including various forms of acoustic and electronic music. Frank Orrall founded the band in Hawaii in 1984, initially as a solo project. In 1985 Orrall formed the first line-up of PDP to perform its first concert at the Honolulu Academy of Arts. The band embarked on a yearlong street performance busking tour across North America. They eventually settled down in Austin, Texas in 1987, where they recorded their first three albums. In 1992, the band relocated to Chicago and they began to incorporate orchestral arrangements and elements of electronic, house music, and soul music into their acoustic rock style. The membership of Poi Dog Pondering has evolved from album to album, with Frank Orrall a constant player since the inception of the band.

Hawaii / Street performing years; members
During the Hawaii years (1985–1986), the band had the following lineup:
 * Frank Orrall – Guitar, vocals, marimba, penny whistle
 * Abra Moore – Guitar, vocals, accordion
 * Sean Coffey – Drums
 * John "el John" Nelson – Percussion
 * Kalea Chapman – Guitar, vocals
 * Jean Francois Berneron – Photographer, cook, vocals, recorder
 * Cliff Kamida – Guitar, harmonica
 * Ted Cho – Mandolin, guitar
 * Joe Espinda – Guitar, recording engineer
 * Matt Miller – Bass, vocals

Austin years; members
During the Austin years (1987–1992), the band had the following lineup:
 * Frank Orrall – guitar, tin flute, drums, vocals
 * Ted Cho – electric guitar, mandolin, bass
 * Dave Max Crawford – organ, trumpet, accordion
 * Darren Hess – drum kit (1991–1992)
 * Bruce Hughes – bass, vocals, guitar
 * John Nelson – congas, maracas, tom-toms, background vocals (1989–1992)
 * Dick Ross – drum kit (1987–1990)
 * Adam Sultan – electric guitar, acoustic guitar, vocals
 * Susan Voelz – violin, guitar, vocals

Additionally, the records featured literally dozens of musicians credited as "Satellite Poi Members". Most prominent amongst these satellite members were vocalists Abra Moore and Malford Milligan, sound artist Ellen Fullman, drummer Sean Coffey and (on their third album) turntable operator Ashton "DJ Cassanova" Irons.

Beginning with that third album, 1992's Volo Volo, the band began to experiment with new musical styles, including fully incorporating DJ Cassanova into the line-up. Orrall's emerging interest in dance and house music led the band to relocate to Chicago in 1992, where it developed a loyal local following and was named best band by Chicago magazine in 1997 & "Best Pop and Rock Act" in the 2009 Chicago Readers Poll.

Early Chicago years; members
From 1993 to 1999, the band recorded the albums Pomegranate and Natural Thing and performed live with the following members in the lineup:
 * Frank Orrall – guitar, vocals
 * Dave Max Crawford – keyboards, clavinet
 * Paul Mertens – sax, clarinet, flute
 * Susan Voelz – violin
 * Dag Juhlin – guitar
 * Eddie Carlson – Bass
 * Brent Olds – bass
 * Tom Ray – Bass
 * Nick Kitsos – Drums
 * Steve Goulding – drums
 * Leddie Garcia – Percussion
 * Arlene Newson – backing vocals
 * Kornell Hargrove – backing vocals
 * Robert Cornelius – backing vocals

Satellite Members
 * Brigid Murphy – Alto Saxophone
 * Jason More – Berimbau
 * Lloyd Brodnax King – Alto Flute
 * Katherine Pisaro – Oboe

Mid Chicago years; members
From 1999 to 2013, (and for the album releases "In Seed Comes Fruit", "7" and "Audio Love Letter") the band had the following members in the lineup:

 * Frank Orrall – vocals, guitar, piano, synth. vibes, drums, samples, sequencing
 * Susan Voelz – violin, vocals
 * Paul Mertens – flute, sax, clarinet
 * Leddie Garcia – congas, bongos, ganzas, bells, shakers, various percussion
 * Kornell Hargrove – vocals
 * Ron Hall – bass
 * Rick Gehrenbeck – rhodes electric piano, clavinet, organ, synthesizers
 * Charlette Wortham – vocals
 * Alison Chesley – cello
 * Carla Prather – vocals
 * Tim Gant – piano, synthesizers
 * John "El John" Nelson – Percussion, drums
 * Earl A. Talbot – Drums
 * Dan Leali – Drums

Current Poi Dog Pondering Line-up; members

 * Frank Orrall – vocals, guitar, piano, synth. vibes, drums, samples, sequencing
 * Susan Voelz – violin, vocals
 * Dave Max Crawford – organ, piano, trumpet, trombone, flugelhorn, electric piano [Wurlitzer], clavinet, synthesizer, theremin
 * John Nelson – congas, bongos, drums, various percussion
 * Ted Cho – Guitar, Mandolin
 * Dag Juhlin – guitar
 * Kornell Hargrove – vocals
 * Ron Hall – bass
 * Rick Gehrenbeck – rhodes electric piano, clavinet, organ, synthesizers
 * Charlette Wortham – vocals
 * Robert Cornelius – vocals
 * Carla Prather – vocals
 * Ryan Murphy – Drums
 * Paul Mertens – flute, sax, clarinet

Early 4 track cassette albums

 * Poi Dog Pondering PDP X 1 (1984)
 * Poi Dog Pondering Soliloqui PDP X 2 (1985)
 * 8 Songs by Poi Dog Pondering PDP X 3 (1985)
 * Poi Dog Pondering Thawing Spring PDP X 5 (1986)
 * Poi Dog Pondering Dig PDP X 4 (1986)
 * Hawaii to Texas (live 1987)
 * Vision Farming Hula Circus (live 1987)

Studio albums

 * Poi Dog Pondering (1989)
 * Wishing Like a Mountain and Thinking Like the Sea (1990)
 * Volo Volo (1992)
 * Pomegranate (1995)
 * Natural Thing (1999)
 * In Seed Comes Fruit (2003)
 * 7 (2008)
 * Audio Love Letter (2011)
 * Everybody's Got a Star (2015)
 * Remnants of Summer (2018)
 * Keep on Loving Each Other (2023)

Other releases

 * Fruitless (EP) (1990)
 * Vague Gropings in the Slip Stream (Palm Fabric Orchestra) (1994)
 * Electrique Plummagram (Re-Mix Album) (1996)
 * That's the Way Love Is (Re-Mix EP) (1999)
 * Intermittent Transmissions from the SlipStream (Palm Fabric Orchestra) (2018)

Live albums

 * Liquid White Light (1997)
 * Soul Sonic Orchestra (2000)
 * Live at Metro Chicago (4-CD set, paired with DVD release, Dec 21, 2012 )

Compilations

 * Sweeping Up the Cutting Room Floor (2001)
 * The Best of Poi Dog Pondering (The Austin Years) (2005)
 * Song Seeds of 7 (Demos and Outtakes) (2018)
 * Four on the Floor – Dance Floor Rarities and Remixes: 1994–2018 (2018)
 * Sweeping Up the Cutting Room Floor – Volume 2 (2018)

DVD releases

 * Audio Visivo (2004)
 * Live at Metro Chicago (2 DVD set, paired with CD release, Dec 21, 2012 )

title: Poi Dog Pondering


text:
Talk:The Dell-Vikings

Vote for Deletion
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title: Talk:The Dell-Vikings