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Henry Bradshaw (poet)

Henry Bradshaw (c. 1450–1513) was an English poet born in Chester. In his boyhood he was received into the Benedictine monastery of Saint Werburgh, and after studying with other novices of his order at Gloucester College, Oxford, he returned to his monastery at Chester.

Biography
Bradshaw wrote a Latin treatise De antiquitate et magnificentia Urbis Cestricie, which is lost, and a life of the patron saint of his monastery in English seven-lined stanza. This work was completed in the year of its author's death, 1513, mentioned in "A balade to the auctour" printed at the close of the work. A second ballad describes him as "Harry Braddeshaa, of Chestre abbey monke." Bradshaw disclaims the merit of originality and quotes the authorities from which he translates—Bede, William of Malmesbury, Giraldus Cambrensis, Alfred of Beverley, Henry of Huntingdon, Ranulph Higden, and especially the "Passionary" or life of the saint preserved in the monastery. The poem, therefore, which is defined by its editor, Dr Carl Horstmann, as a "legendary epic," is rather a compilation than a translation. It contains a good deal of history beside the actual life of the saint. St Werburgh was the daughter of Wulfhere, king of Mercia, and Bradshaw gives a description of the kingdom of Mercia, with a full account of its royal house. He relates the history of St Ermenilde and St Sexburge, mother and grandmother of Werburgh, who were successively abbesses of Ely. He does not neglect the miraculous elements of the story, but he is more attracted by historical fact than legend, and the second book narrates the Danish invasion of 875, and describes the history and antiquities of Chester, from its foundation by the legendary giant Leon Gaur, from which he derives the British name of Caerleon, down to the great fire which devastated the city in 1180, but was suddenly extinguished when the shrine of St Werburgh was carried in procession through the streets.

The Holy Lyfe and History of saynt Werburge very frutefull for all Christen people to rede (printed by Richard Pynson, 1521) has been very variously estimated. Thomas Warton, who deals with Bradshaw at some length, quotes as the most splendid passage of the poem the description of the feast preceding Werburgh's entry into the religious life. He considered Bradshaw's versification "infinitely inferior to Lydgate's worst manner." Dr Horstmann, on the other hand, finds in the poem "original genius, of a truly epic tone, with a native simplicity of feeling which sometimes reminds the reader of Homer." Most readers will probably adopt a view between these extremes. Bradshaw expresses the humblest opinion of his own abilities, and he certainly had no delicate ear for rhythm. His sincerity is abundantly evident, and his piety is admitted even by John Bale, hostile as he was to monkish writers. W. Herbert thought that a Lyfe of Saynt Radegunde, also printed by Pynson, was certainly by Bradshaw. The only extant copy is in the Britwell library.

Pynson's edition of the Holy Lyfe is very rare, only five copies being known. A reprint copying the original type was edited by Mr. Edward Hawkins for the Chetham Society in 1848, and by Dr Carl Hortsmann for the Early English Text Society in 1887.

title: Henry Bradshaw (poet)


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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

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Henry Bradshaw (scholar)

Henry Bradshaw (2 February 1831 – 10 February 1886) was a British scholar and librarian.

Henry Bradshaw was born in London, England, the son of Joseph Hoare Bradshaw, a banker. He was educated at Eton and King's College, Cambridge, where he became a fellow in 1853. After a brief spell from 1854 to 1856 as an Assistant Master at Saint Columba's College, Dublin, he accepted an appointment in the Cambridge University Library as an extra assistant.

Bibliographical work
When he found that his official duties absorbed all his leisure he resigned his post, but continued to give his time to the examination of the manuscripts and early printed books in the library. There was then no complete catalogue of these sections, and Bradshaw soon showed a rare faculty for investigations respecting old books and curious manuscripts.

Celtic and Waldensian texts
In addition to his achievements in black-letter bibliography he threw great light on ancient Celtic language and literature by the discovery, in 1857, of the Book of Deer, a manuscript copy of the Gospels in the Vulgate version, in which were inscribed old Gaelic charters. This was published by the Spalding Club in 1869. Bradshaw also discovered some Celtic glosses on the manuscript of a metrical paraphrase of the Gospels by Juvencus. He made another find in the Cambridge library of considerable philological and historical importance; Cromwell's envoy, Sir Samuel Morland (1625–1695), had brought back from Piedmont manuscripts containing the earliest known Waldensian records, consisting of translations from the Bible, religious treatises and poems. One of the poems referred to the beginning of the 11th century, though the manuscripts did not appear to be of earlier date than the 15th century. On this Morland had based his theory of the antiquity of the Waldensian doctrine, and, in the absence of the manuscripts, which were supposed to be irretrievably lost, the conclusion was accepted. Bradshaw discovered the manuscripts in the university library, and found in the passage indicated traces of erasure. The original date proved to be 1400. Incidentally the correct date was of great value in the study of the history of the language.

Simonides and Lydgate
He had a share in exposing the frauds of Constantine Simonides, who had asserted that the Codex Sinaiticus brought by Tischendorf from the Greek monastery of Mount Sinai was a modern forgery of which he was himself the author. Bradshaw exposed the absurdity of these claims in a letter to the Guardian (26 January 1863). In 1866 he made a valuable contribution to the history of Scottish literature by the discovery of 2200 lines on the siege of Troy incorporated in a manuscript of Lydgate's Troye Booke, and of the Legends of the Saints, an important work of some 40,000 lines. These poems he attributed, erroneously, as has since been proved, to Barbour.

International Relations
In the absence of easily accessible library catalogs, Bradshaw played an important role in providing English literature and language scholars from other countries with access to and information about the location of medieval manuscripts. Ewald Flügel, a German scholar who had moved from Leipzig to Stanford University, praised him as the "librarian of librarians," and Bernhard ten Brink, first chair of English Philology in Germany, called him "the most thorough" of "all living Chaucer scholars."

Administration

Bradshaw allowed his attention to be divided over many areas, and wrote little that has lasted. He was elected (1867) university librarian, and as dean of his college (1857–1865) and praelector (1863–1868) he was involved in further routine duties. Besides his discoveries in bibliography, he improved the standard of library administration. His papers on antiquarian subjects were edited by Francis John Henry Jenkinson in 1889.

He had a great influence on Karl Pearson.

title: Henry Bradshaw (scholar)


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Zur

Zur occurs five times in the King James Bible as the name of various people and a state.

 * The first mention is in . This is the pericope where Numbers 25:1 tells us that Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab(Patriarch of Moab):

 * And the name of the Midianitish woman that was slain was Cozbi, the daughter of Zur; he was head over a people, and of a chief house in Midian.

 * The second mention is . Here, the nation of Israel is warring against the Midianites, and a body-count is given:

 * And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
 * And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

 * The third mention is a recapitulation of the second, at the pericope of Joshua's death-scene, :

 * And all the cities of the plain, and all the kingdom of Sihon king of the Amorites, which reigned in Heshbon, whom Moses smote with the princes of Midian, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, which were dukes of Sihon, dwelling in the country.

 * The fourth mention is in the begats at :

 * And his firstborn son Abdon, and Zur, and Kish, and Baal, and Nadab

 * The fifth mention is about the servers at the temple, :

 * And in Gibeon dwelt the father of Gibeon, Jehiel, whose wife's name was Maachah:
 * And his firstborn son Abdon, then Zur, and Kish, and Baal, and Ner, and Nadab.

title: Zur


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Bucksaw

A bucksaw is a hand-powered frame saw similar to bow saw and generally used with a sawbuck to cut logs or firewood to length (bucking). Modern bucksaws usually have a metal frame ("H" or C-shaped) and a removable blade with coarse teeth held in tension by the frame. Lightweight portable or foldable models used for camping or back-packing are also available. It is often referred to as a bow saw in the North American hardware market, but that term traditionally refers to a different type of saw with a wooden frame.

Description
A bucksaw is a crosscut saw: it is designed to cut across the grain. The width of the blade is constant from the teeth to the back. It is meant to cut wood fibers that are under tension, and is thick so that it is more difficult to bend on the push stroke. It can be either a one or two-man saw. Coopers often use bucksaws in their work.

Bucksaws can be used for a number of tasks like clearing land, chopping firewood, cutting lumber, and sometimes kept handy for small logging projects. Due to their portability, these hand tools are often preferred by people that like to go camping and enjoy the outdoors lifestyle. Bucksaws feature coarse teeth that allow them to work with very big timber and are designed to allow replacing the blades after extensive woodworking projects.

If people use them for furnishing crafts, the blades can be substituted with more polished ones. The cuts produced with these smaller toothed blades are smoother and cleaner. The advantage of this tool is that electric power (or cord) is not needed to use it, and its affordability makes easily replaceable.

title: Bucksaw


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gush

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Speedy delete. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 19:06, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Gush
Personal article of no interest 212.68.150.1 09:54, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: Wikipedia is no blog. Manik Raina 10:19, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete very cute rat and all, but nn, vanity -Harmil 10:22, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Cute, but not wiki material - not even the line about climbing on the shelves. Grutness...  wha?  13:16, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Awwwwww. "Delete', but make sure to keep the picture for Wikicommons. DS 17:21, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gush


text: Category:436 BC

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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dahimtuta

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Speedy; biographical article with no claim of notability. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 19:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Dahimtuta
Seemingly completely made up/uncited and a vandalism/troll playground. zen master T 09:58, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Candidate for speedy delete Manik Raina 10:24, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * How so? Any particular criteria? -Harmil 10:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete nn warez kiddie, vanity -Harmil 10:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non notable warez vanity. JamesBurns 10:48, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, currently the article doesn't convince me he is notable. Thue | talk 11:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

DELETE! This guy is full of himself!

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


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Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Mackerelsky

Mackerel Sky
Burnt out highlights, and yet another image which is too small to be worthy of a FP status IMO
 * ( + ) Support Too small --Fir0002 09:56, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * For issues like size, we should try to get a larger version from the contributor before voting on delisting it. I can't see any attempt to tell the user in question user:Denni, so I'm going to oppose delisting until the contributor (who is still active) says they can't or won't provide a larger version. -- Finlay McWalter |  Talk 19:32, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * I will rescan this image at a higher resolution (and also fix the highlight issue) ASAP. Denni ☯ 00:50, 2005 July 23 (UTC)
 * Oppose if a bigger image is found, it's a nice picture. This link is Broken 22:43, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Any success in getting a better copy? It's been a while since the delisting was nominated... Enochlau 11:29, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * A bigger, better, and more beautiful version has been created and uploaded. Before, I was a little dubious of its place in the Featured Picture archive. Now it deserves it. Denni ☯ 23:54, 2005 August 5 (UTC)
 * Oppose delisting - Bevo 02:38, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * After alternative image provided, Support delisting - 1 Oppose delisting - 4, Kept as a Featured Picture - Bevo 03:51, 8 August 2005 (UTC)


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User:Carsonface

I AM GOD

title: User:Carsonface


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Talk:Highland Main Line

Lines meeting at Inverness
I am wondering which lines meet at Inverness. The Far North Line (and the Kyle of Lochalsh Line), the Highland Main Line, and what? Laurel Bush 09:57, 19 July 2005 (UTC).
 * There is also the Aberdeen to Inverness Line. Our Phellap 13:39, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I was hoping it might not be a yet to be writen article. Laurel Bush 15:07, 19 July 2005 (UTC).

Electrification
I've removed the bit in the infobox that said this line was electrified at 25Kv since it isn't. It would be nice if it was!

Stock used on this line is:

and - services to Edinburgh / Glasgow

and occasional - freight services

- Caledonian Sleeper

InterCity 125 - Highland Chieftain.

All diesel as one can note. Soarhead77 (talk) 14:52, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Drumochter Spelling
Redrose64 continues to change spelling of the link to Pass of Drumochter. This brings in a re-direct of the page, and uses the much less frequently used spelling Druimuachdar (4190 hits on Google, vs 56600 for Drumochter). Drumochter is used by Transport Scotland to describe the pass, and Drumochter is in use in printed publications which Redrose64 has chosen to ignore.

Support for use of Drumochter to maintain local spelling use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.4.147 (talk) 22:52, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
 * You have cited a touristy article in the Daily Telegraph, which is hardly a source on railway matters (it's also a passing mention, see WP:CONTEXTMATTERS); and another Wikipedia article, contrary to WP:CIRCULAR. I, on the other hand, have turned up three independent printed sources, all being books dedicated to railway matters, and all of which show that the feature is named Druimuachdar Summit, and I can provide more if necessary.
 * Local spelling of the pass is fine when talking about the pass. But the railway summit is named by the railway, and there is a signboard at the side of the railway line at that point, and it is the spelling on that board which we should use when describing the railway feature. It is a general principle that we do not correct the spellings of officially-named features, even when they are wrong when compared to the common name of the locality. This is the case not just in Scotland, but also Wales, and even England - where there are both Wolvercot Junction and Wolvercot Platform railway station close to the village of Wolvercote. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 00:08, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The Ordnance Survey calls it the "Pass of Drumochter". Mjroots (talk) 12:18, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I personally know it as "Drumochter", but I tend not to be too fussed one way or the other about these things. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  14:17, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, but we're not talking about the pass, we're talking about the summit on the railway. Railway summits have nameboards at one side of the line (or both), sometimes giving the elevation. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 20:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The railway sign reads "Druimuachdar Pass". For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not suggesting that WP use this copyrighted picture, nor that the website is a RS, but it's evidence of the label the rail industry has given to the place in large iron letters.  Here's another photo in case anyone thinks the first one was manipulated. Certes (talk) 17:57, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Highland Main Line


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Greek Orthodox Metropolitan of Beirut

Greek Orthodox Metropolitan of Beirut and Exarch of Phoenicia is the head of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Beirut and Exarchate of Phoenicia in the Syrian-based patriarchate of the Eastern Orthodox Church of Antioch. The present Archbishop is Elias Audi (1980-)

List of Archbishops

 * Makarios (1783 being mentioned)
 * Archimandrite Messurah (appointed in 1902 )
 * Gerasimos Mesarra (?)
 * Elias Saliby (1950 being mentioned)
 * Elias Audi (1980–present)

title: Greek Orthodox Metropolitan of Beirut


text:
Talk:Aleppo Codex

What is C.E.? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.219.227.213 (talk) 05:09, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Common Era--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 11:43, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

What Maimonides said and didn't say
The famous quotation comes from his great codification of Jewish law, Mishneh Torah. The section is Hilchot Tefillin uMezuzah v'Sefer Torah, chapter 8, paragraph 4; I quote the Moznaim translation, as the only one I had to hand, although it is sometimes unclear and translates sefer uniformly as scroll although of course the Aleppo Codex is not a scroll.

Paragraph 1 explains p'tuchah - beginning a new paragraph. Paragraph 2 explains s'tumah - a gap in the middle of a line. Paragraph 3 discusses correcting a Sefer Torah if there is a mistake in p'tuchah or s'tumah or the layout of the songs in Beshallach or Ha'azinu.

Paragraph 4 says "Since I have seen great confusion about these matters in all the scrolls I have seen, and similarly, the masters of the tradition who have written down and composed to have it let known [which passages] are p'tuchot and which are s'tumot are divided with regard to the scrolls on which to rely, I saw fit to write down the entire list of all the passages in the Torah that are s'tumot and p'tuchot, and also the form of the songs. In this manner, all the scrolls can be corrected and checked against these [principles].

"The scroll on which I relied on for [clarification of] these matters was a scroll renowned in Egypt, which includes all the 24 books [of the Bible]. It was kept in Jerusalem for many years so that scrolls could be corrected from it.  Everyone relies upon it because it was corrected by ben Asher, who spent many years writing it precisely, and [afterward] checked it many times.

"I relied [on this scroll] when I wrote a Torah scroll according to law."

He then goes on, as he said, to give a complete list of all the places in the Torah where there is a p'tuchah or s'tumah, and to give the laws of how to write the two special songs. Given the context, it is clear that he is referring to issues of formatting rather than text. Had he considered that there were places where the text, or even the spelling of some words, was in dispute, he would surely have given a list of them and what he considered that the text should be.

It must be remembered that Aaron ben Asher's contribution was mainly in the areas of vowel signs, the musical notes and especially the marginal masoretic notes. However, a sefer torah contains only the consonants of the Torah. It does not even have the verse dividers. While there may have been quite a lot of variation between manuscripts on the other points, there would have been far less disagreement on the consonants. Maimonides saw nothing worth saying about uncertainty in the consonants, which presumably means that the text was very stable by his time. RachelBrown 19:29, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree. Entirely too much is made of Maimonides' remarks. Beyond the layout of the layout of spacings in the text and the two songs, he says nothing at all about relying on the codex for either malei/chaseir (inclusin or omission of vav's and yod's as clues to vowelization), other spellings, anc certainly nothing about vowel marks or cantillation marks.Kepipesiom (talk) 18:13, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

 * This is not correct. Ben Asher's contribution as the masran was add vocalization and masoretic notes, and then to correct the letter text of the manuscript according to the masoretic notes by proofreading it time after time over the course of a lifetime. This is exactly what Maimonides praises him for, and that praise is correct, for his proofreading efforts led to the most accurate masoretic manuscript ever produced. Furthermore, comparison of Tiberian manuscripts shows that there is far more variation in the letter-text (especially malei-haser) than in the vocalization (which is often close to identical). And furthermore, Penkower's studies have shown that Maimonides relied on the spelling of the Aleppo codex for the text of mezuzot and tefillin, and presumably for his Torah scroll as well. And finally, even if Maimonides himself is silent on the issue, later scholars saw every element of Ben Asher's text as something to be emulated and made every effort to do so, and they did so based on Ben Asher's reputation as bolstered by Maimonides. Dovi (talk) 18:51, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Sorry, but I stand by my remarks. Maimonides says nothing at all about malei/chaser, vowel marks, cantillation marks. In Tefillin and Mezzuzos he lists each malei/chaser instance; if this is identical with the Aleppo, that is entirely happenstance. Why would M not give credit to Ben Asher if he were copying from that codex? And as for the rest of the Torah, M lists no malei/chasers at all. No, the only thing M has taken from Aleppo, according to his own words, is the pesucha/sesuma formatting, and the two songs.Kepipesiom (talk) 20:31, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Hi. Maimonides wrote: "Everyone relied upon it because Ben Asher corrected and examined it for many years, correcting it many times..."

 * If Maimonides thought that Ben Asher's text was only valuable and authoritative for petuhot and setumot, then what was he talking about? What did Ben Asher examine and correct for so many years? If it was just for the parashot in the Torah, they can be carefully examined in their entirety in just a few hours, and checked over and over again in the course of a few days. What did Ben Asher do for "many years"?

 * It is far more reasonable to assume that Ben Asher worked over the course of many years to correlate the letter-text of the Aleppo Codex with its masoretic notes and correct those letters, as well as perfecting the vowels and cantillation signs, laborious work that indeed takes years and may never be perfectly finished, as in evident all other masoretic codices which are from perfect. The Aleppo Codex is the only one that is perfect in nearly all of its three million orthographic signs.

 * Regarding the letter-text of tefillin, could it be happenstance? Maybe, but Penkower considers that unlikely on a statistical level when comparing it with other similar manuscripts, and considers the opposite possibility more reasonable. That is a sourced opinion from one of the finest masoretic scholars alive today. If there is a contrary source it should be cited too.

 * As far as why Maimonides didn't then record the correct spellings of every letter in the Torah, the answer would appear to be that he only recorded what could reasonably be included in Mishneh Torah and valuable for its readers. For the letter-text of the entire Torah it was not Maimonides' work that was needed, but rather the masoretic apparatus itself! Especially as found in the Aleppo Codex...

 * Rachel Brown wrote some years ago: "It must be remembered that Aaron ben Asher's contribution was mainly in the areas of vowel signs, the musical notes and especially the marginal masoretic notes. However, a sefer torah contains only the consonants of the Torah. It does not even have the verse dividers. While there may have been quite a lot of variation between manuscripts on the other points, there would have been far less disagreement on the consonants." This is misleading, because while Ben Asher's contribution in the area of vowels and musical notes was indeed immense, there are nevertheless thousands of variants in the letter-texts of all the other Tiberian masoretic codices. The very purpose of those "marginal masoretic notes" was to try to create a perfect uniformity for the letters, something that never actually happened except with the Aleppo Codex itself!

 * In terms of sources, all of this is very clear in the scholarly literature on the topic. I urge all to read Israel Yeivin's The Aleppo Codex of the Bible: A Study of its Vocalization and Accentuation as well as his introduction to the mesorah; and Mordechai Breuer's Keter Aram Zova. Also Menachem Cohen's introduction to Mikraot Gedolot ha-Keter. Dovi (talk) 16:16, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

¶ Tawil & Schneider, Crown of Aleppo (op.cit., page 30-31) noted that Goshen-Gottstein refuted some doubts about whether Maimonides had been using and describing the Aleppo Codex by very carefully examining manuscripts written by Maimonides's own hand, including some manuscripts that had not yet been published in any book, and established that Maimonides was describing obscurities and peculiarities of the Aleppo Codex, even to details that had never been previously made public. See his article: Moshe Goshen-Gottstein, "The Authenticity of the Aleppo Codex", Textus vol. 1 (1960) pages 17-58, reprinted in Leiman (op.cit).Sussmanbern (talk) 22:22, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Mechon Mamre edition
NOTE from mechon-mamre.org: The following is terribly confused and full of inaccuracies. The author of this article should give mechon-mamre.org a call and get accurate info and rewrite this error infested article.

I have put a "citation needed" template on the claim that Mechon Mamre's online edition of the Aleppo Codex differs in some fine details from the Breuer edition and reconstruction. Mechon Mamre has never been forthcoming about documenting their editorial decisions. Should they explicity document exactly what features of their reconstruction and edition differ from that of Breuer, then those facts should be noted in the article (and they would also be doing a fine service to scholarship). Until they do so, however, any claims about differences should be noted as exactly that, namely "claims," and a citation notice should be in place. Dovi (talk) 21:09, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not a 'they' but a 'he'. Mechon Mamre is the work of Shlomo Ben Avraham. I've been to his house, he has stacks and stacks of manuscripts in binders in his bookcase. I could call him up and ask him how his text differs. 89.138.192.76 (talk) 21:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be fantastic! One easy way to deal with this would be if Rav Ben Avraham had a page at his website documenting his editioral method in detail (including if and how it differs from Breuer). Then the citation here could simply link to his own explanation.
 * It seems to me that the better documented the Mechon Mamre Tanakh is, the more it would be cited and linked to, and it would be better regarded as a standard text. It would be extraordinarily cool the website contained an interactive vehicle for discussing the editor's decisions and asking questions.Dovi (talk) 17:00, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I spoke to him. He says that his method involved finding all the old Yemenite manuscripts, and following the majority of them. his text differs from the Breuer in some places regarding nikkud. He also disagrees that the Aleppo Codex today is the exact compilation the Rambam used when writing the Mishneh Torah, since in the lists of paragraph breaks in the most accurate editions of the MT, there's two differences between that and the Aleppo Codex. NachMS (talk) 07:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Now THAT is interesting information. He states that he is consulting Yemenite mss for niqqud instead of directly transcribing the Aleppo codex. This first of all confirms my suspicion that for the letter-text (ketiv) there is nothing unique about the MM text. For the niqqud, then, it would be interesting to get an actual list of the mss he consults and try to confirm when and how he employs their data.
 * As far as the paragraph breaks, he seems to be mistaken: There is one place where a small space in the Aleppo codex was interpreted differently by Maimonides than by others who saw the codex intact, and another place where Maimonides' list is ambiguous. For both of these, see the footnotes to the Parashah article. Dovi (talk) 08:01, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh thanks, such information is quite useful to me. NachMS (talk) 10:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

¶ I am extremely annoyed that someone took it upon himself to undo my addition of the page size of the Codex pages, ostensibly because I failed to cite a source - although all sources that provide the size agree (I have since added those citations) - and yet ignore claims back and forth on the authenticity of the Codex as Maimonides's model text which cited no sources. Sussmanbern (talk) 22:50, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Jerusalem - Cairo
The "History" section reads:

"The Codex has had an eventful history. In the mid-11th century, about a century after it was written, the text was delivered to the Karaite community of Jerusalem, apparently after having been purchased from the heirs of Aharon ben Asher. Not long after (either in 1079 by the Seljuks or in 1099 by the Crusaders) it was looted from Jerusalem and eventually wound up in the Rabbanite synagogue in Cairo, where it was consulted by Maimonides."

Is this somebody’s opinion or does it have an actual source? I’m leaning towards the former. It just sounds like some one is trying to pull a reason out of thin air for why it ended up in Cairo. Why would the Sejuks take the book to Cairo since the Fatimids were their enemies? I think I have a more plausible historical reason for the appearance of the book in Cairo and I’ve even got a source for it.

In 1952, S.D. Goitein discovered two contemporary Jewish letters among the Cairo Geniza. One of these letters, the Letter of the Karaite elders of Ascalon, mentions how after the 1099 siege of Jerusalem, Karaite Jewish survivors and holy relics (torah scrolls, codexes, etc.) were held ransom by the Crusaders. The Karaite elders reached out to their coreligionists in Alexandria and funds were sent to pay for pockets of Jews and relics over several years. Those ransomed were then transported to the main Karaite community in Egypt. Now if the person who “guesstimated” the above material would like my source, please write me on my talk page. However, my source does not mention this codex by name. So keep in mind by adding whatever material I provide you with to this article is original research. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 03:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Hi, the information I provided in the source above is based on the historical survery by Yosef Ofer, which is found in the companion volume to the Jerusalem Crown Tanakh (available online). Similar information can be found at aleppocodex.org. Everything is either based upon the colophones in the manuscript or other documented texts, and anything which is not is conjecture (on the part of Ofer and other scholars), namely: How did the codex get from Jerusalem to Cairo? The Seljuks and Crusaders are the two most obvious culprits, but there is no hard evidence for either. I see no reason why Goitein should not be referred to in a footnote on the word "Crusaders" as parallel, supporting fact. Dovi (talk) 12:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Ok, but why is the Jerusalem Crown Tanakh not directly referenced to after the statement? I found one website that mentions neither the Seljuks nor Crusaders, they just state it went missing after the First Crusade (see here). However, I did find material on the aleppocodex.org website that states its possible that it was apart of the holy books ransomed by the Crusaders (See point "4.4" here). It appears others have seen the same similarities as myself. I will be deleting the bit about Seljuks or Crusaders and will add both the "possible" statement from the Aleppo website and my own sources to explain the event in more detail. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 18:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Sounds good to me. As to why something is not referenced, the "wiki way" is that if you find something that needs adding, then go ahead and add it! I'd love to hear more about your novel (from your user page). Dovi (talk) 21:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

 * PS Read Ofer's survey article here. Dovi (talk) 21:10, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I read his article earlier while cleaning up the external links. It does mention the Sejuks and Crusaders, but, although an educated guess, it falls short of the mark. As I previously explained, the Seljuks were at war against the Fatimids in Egypt. The Fatiminds where wanting to use the Crusaders as a buffer between them and the Seljuks to keep the Turkish forces from invading their lands. So, the Seljuks would not have had a reason to send a friendly mission to Cairo just to deliver a Jewish holy book (see The Crusades: Islamic Persecutive (1999) for more details). Nor would the Crusaders for the same reason. However, I understand that not everyone knows about the Karaite letter. I researched the First Crusade for years and didn't know about it until I contacted a Jewish Crusader historian from Hebrew University. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 21:24, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I would like to see more about the provenance of the codex, and convincing proof that the Aleppo Codex is indeed the identical object with the sefer that Mimonides described. I find most disturbing, that Maimonides' use of the word sefer invariably refers to a scroll, and at this one and only point, without warning to the reader, he uses the same word to describe a codex. Very puzzling. Kepipesiom (talk) 18:13, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Friedman's book
In my opinion the book of Friedman deserves more attention in the article than it gets, and claims that it disputes (in my opinion, disproves) shouldn't be stated as fact any more. In particular Friedman and others show that the work was essentially whole when brought to Israel, and also that it was not given to the state on behalf of its owners. This article in Tablet gives an update on the book. Zerotalk 00:06, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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"sacred to Yahweh"
I understand that the source article uses the full Name, but would pious Jews actually have written it like that? --2607:FEA8:D5DF:F945:5C78:5149:5F14:2542 (talk) 14:06, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Aleppo Codex At Mikraot Gedolot Haketer
I put at the "External Links" a link to Aleppo Codex at 'Mikraot Gedolot Ha'keter' (MGK) website: https://www.mgketer.org/kazms. MrOllie deleted this edit because: "It was redundant with links already present and with material hosted at Wikimedia commons." I don't agree with him: 1. MGK is the only website where you can see on the manuscript the beginning of the chapter start and end of it. 2. At MGK you can see the verses number, at the top of each column which make it very easy to find the verse you look for. 3. At MGK you can see the chapter on the manuscript against the text of MGK. 4. At MGK you can see the Masora on the manuscript against the Masora's text of MGK. 5. At MGK you can see the 'Ein Hamasora' - a unique interpretation of the Masora. 6. The link was approved by the Hebrew Wiki, Deutsch Wiki and many others. I would like to hear your opinion about this issue. Noli1001 (talk) 12:25, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Aleppo Codex


text: Category:454 BC

title: Category:454 BC


text: Category:455 BC

title: Category:455 BC


text:
Talk:Microsoft account

Site Synopsis Maintenance
Since we know for a certainty that this mechanism will continue to change, the start of this site should indicate the date of the most recent (periodic) update or review, and a synopsis of the current state of affairs for new users. IE:
 * 2013 Nov: "Microsoft account" uses Open ID service to collect limited personal information about you & allow you to more easily browse to your accounts at sites that are setup to allow such re-directed "sign-in" without typing in your UID & Pw. You will still have to maintain an alternative mechanism or procedure for the many account sites which use an alternative service, or none at all.

--Wikidity (talk) 05:30, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Citation 1 False?
I believe that this is false, because Microsoft Wallet was a facility for storing financial data, and I think this article is in need of clea up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.3.50.196 (talk) 16:29, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

@Live.com Addresses?
This page doesn't say anything about the somename@live.com email addresses. I don't know enough but i think you can't get @live.com email addresses anymore. Does anybody know and can you write a little section about them?
 * I believe they only come in either @hotmail.com or @live.cn email addresses... but now it seems to have been changed to either @hotmail.ca, @hotmail.com, or @live.ca (I checked the registration page)--ZigZagZoug (talk) 02:43, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Wrong stub category?
Why is this page in the Windows stubs category? The Microsoft Passport Network isn't part of Windows, and can be used from any web browser.
 * Windows XP (still supported as of 2013 Nov.) directs users to '.NET Passport' for this function with their typically laconic and snobbish disdain for problems & details. If such users wrestle their way to this topic, they should receive a clear & candid description, or a simple link to one.--Wikidity (talk) 05:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

'See also' links?
Why are there links to Liberty Alliance and OASIS? They don't seem relevant. Lambyuk 00:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

I use Macs. Why would I want this?

Name
The name of the network is still Passport Network, only the login service has changed name to Windows Live ID, as of http://passport.net - "The Passport Network works with Windows Live ID." 1 04:56, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, Passport Network is a network and Live ID is a user account used to sign on to the Passport Network. Two very different things. There is no such thing called "Windows Live ID Network" yet. COstop 22:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Passport was a milestone product in many ways: it caused the Liberty Alliance to be created, and a meaningful discussion to emerge about what was and wasn't desirable in a digital identity system. I would recommend to not redirect this page to the repositioned Live ID page because it essentially removes the "milestone" of Passport from the record. Many people still talk about Passport (admittedly mostly negatively), in spite of it not really being around any more. There is an entry on Visicalc, too, and that isn't around any more either. 22:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Lakhmir Singh Lakhmir Singh (talk) 18:11, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Whitewashing?
Anyone get the feeling that all these artcles about Microsoft products lack reviews and criticism? Why hasn't anyone metioned why Ebay and Paypal stoped using Microsoft Passport?--Bushido Hacks 23:53, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Complaining about what other editors haven't done doesn't help the project. More often than not, such information is missing only because nobody's bothered to write it yet. So please, by all means, be bold and add in information you feel is important and relevant to the subject!  Any help you can offer in improving the article would be most welcome.  Just remember that information like what you're proposing needs cited sources. Warrens 00:00, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment about Security Issues
Since the emails to be used with passport is only MS controled email operations, The problem with reused email addresses can be easily addressed by a notification of the reuse of email addresses from the MS controlled email operation to MS passport service. Whether they currently do that I don't know, but I guess they do since the issue is so well known.

When you mention a seucirty issue, you need to say whether the security issues are already fixed or not.
 * Passport can be used with non ms controlled email addresses too............. Plugwash (talk) 02:27, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Inaccurate Information
The security issues mentioned in this article seem to be solved, at least to some degree. For instance, it now appears that it is acatually possible to change the primary email address of an account, thus invalidating the problem of switching ISP.

 * What do you mean "it now appears"? How about some info on how to do it instead of speculation??

FTC Consent Order
The FTC Consent Order should be documented in this article somewhere. I'm avoiding doing that because of a WP:COI. -- marius strom  04:47, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, more than sixteen years later, I have done this. Hopefully the wording is sufficiently encyclopedic. Beanut H Butter (talk) 23:52, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Linking Windows-ID's
Anyone know much about this ... it would be useful if there was something on the main page. I would like to do it but not very keen to use my two accounts as a guinea-pig!

 * Is there any unexpected problems like 'merging' of the two accounts that can not be separated again ...?
 * Problems of getting an email into one account a replying with the other by accident etc ... i.e. I use one account for work/jobs and the other socially.
 * I'd like to be able to check MSN groups, email etc with a single login but be able to reply to messages from each account separately.

Any help wiki-help out there? -- 82.9.25.98 (talk) 00:27, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

 * No, "linking" just means that you only need to type in your username/password once and you can switch between all your accounts through the menu on the top-right hand corner of Windows Live services without having to type it again. So the accounts are not "merged" and hence is able to be "unlinked". Hotmail allows you specify which email address you wish to use to send an email from when composing an email, you just have to make sure you selected the correct address you wish to be sending your email from. Hope this answers your question. --Pikablu0530 (talk) 03:36, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Windows Live ID is not a website
A few things: --Damaster98 (talk) 09:41, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) It should be noted that Windows Live ID is not a web-"site". It is a web authentication service. As such, the "website" infobox template is not the appropriate template for this article.
 * 2) The screenshot should also depict the actual authentication service, not the (outdated) website that describes what Windows Live ID is. An analogy would be putting in a screenshot that describes what Hotmail is instead of putting a screenshot of Hotmail itself - it gives no benefit to the readers.
 * 3) Further, the link http://www.passport.net is an outdated website, as seen by its frequent reference to "MSN Hotmail" and "MSN Messenger", and should not be treated as the URL link in the infobox as that would refer to readers to outdated information. It is probably more appropriate to direct users to http://explore.live.com/windows-live-sign-in-help-center for information about Windows Live ID, or simply http://login.live.com for the Windows Live ID sign-in page.
 * Aha! So, you decided to stop hitting the revert button and begin discussing. That's good. ;)
 * I never said it is a website. But that has no bearing on my use of the name of infobox template, a Wikipedia matter. If Infobox Cornellia Fitzgerhalt proves suitable, I use that too. Infobox website however, is more suitable here because it can reveal the fact the service requires registration (companies register with the service) and announce its slogan. Infobox software does none of those.
 * The screenshot of login.live.com depicts Microsoft login webpage -- and only the on that pertains to Windows Live. Other websites like Adobe.com have different login pages. Wikipedia is not Microsoft.
 * The only thing outdated in that website is its URL and decoration. The contents is up to date. If you don't like the decoration or URL, then that's your problem. The fact is that Passport.net is the main portal that provides all three single sign-on services and serves as a portal to all Windows Live ID services. That fits the bill for the main page. Login.live.com is not better than service.adobe.com/adobeid.
 * Fleet Command (talk) 09:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * First of all, I have provided reasoning in by first revert's edit comment, however you did not provide any reason/discussion as to why you changed the infobox in the first place, as well as your subsequent revert of my edits - look who's talking. :) Now that we got that clear, let's move on:
 * I'm not gonna make a big deal out of this, so use Infobox website as you like, as long as it shows sufficient information to the readers. Also as an additional thing, I have no idea where you got that slogan from, please source that.
 * You're absolutely correct, the screenshot of login.live.com does depict a Microsoft login webpage. Windows Live ID is a Microsoft product, of course it's going to show a Microsoft login webpage, what did you expect? And what does Adobe.com have to do with this? As far as I can see, Adobe.com uses Adobe ID, and has nothing to do with Windows Live ID. Additionally, where is your source that says "Adobe Systems and Hoyts" are using Windows Live ID?
 * Passport.com's information is vastly outdated. Other than its URL and look (which I was never concerned about and never used that as a reason in my point above), it refers to non-existent services such as "MSN Hotmail" and "MSN Messenger" which had been renamed almost 4-5 years ago. In addition, I don't know where you got the information about "Limited Account" from because visiting your source on http://passport.net, the link that says "Learn more about limited accounts" now takes you to http://explore.live.com/windows-live-sign-in-help-center which mentions nothing about "Limited Account". Further suggests that this is outdated information. I think you should also realise that the Windows Live ID SDK has been deprecated and is now replaced by Windows Live Messenger Connect (source: . For third party websites that wants to use Windows Live ID as their authentication/login, their users will be taken to a Microsoft-hosted Windows Live ID sign-in page to connect their account. This Microsoft-hosted Windows Live ID sign-in page is almost identical to http://login.live.com (perhaps with a different branding text on the left bar), but this sign-in page is what truly identifies Windows Live ID. This visual identity also make it clear for users to know that the authentication is provided by Microsoft and not some scamming website. Hence the original screenshot depicts a more accurate image of what Windows Live ID is - not a screenshot of an outdated description page.
 * The abovementioned areas are currently reverted to how they were before you edited them. I'm grateful for your other contributions to this article. However, please refrain from editing the abovementioned areas before consensus is reached here. --Damaster98 (talk) 14:02, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, then I put the infobox back. Look at the screenshot and you see where I have got the slogan from. ;)
 * Adobe.com and acrobat.com, like many Microsoft services, uses Windows Live ID, hence its login screen. Also Microsoft itself has multiple login screens. (See mcp.microsoft.com or connect.microsoft.com.) But that was not my point. The point is that you are showing a only one of the multiple login screens instead of the main service website, simply because you don't like it.
 * What?! I am using Hotmail and Messenger right now! Good luck telling me they don't exist! You are using this as an evidence that the website is vastly outdated? Good luck again, but I also never read anywhere that "if a page is outdated, then it is not the main page!" In fact, according to NPOV, we must not hide the outdatedness, so that people can see for themselves what Windows Live ID looks like: Not properly attended. If something is falling apart, there is no reason to show it as healthy, hiding the rot behind a healthy looking login screen.
 * If you take a passing look at passport.net, you'll find out where I got the info. I successfully subscribed to a limited account. (I also provided a reference and a footnote, so you must have seriously overlooked.)
 * Windows Live ID Web Authentication SDK is deprecated? So, what? We were talking about the reversal of the infobox and screenshot. If this is another reason to compel me to hide the "outdatedness", then nice try!
 * Fleet Command (talk) 06:28, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Fleet Command, both services have received a name update (they are now known as Windows Live Hotmail and Windows Live Messenger). - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 07:09, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I know that. I did mention that I am USING them now. Fleet Command (talk) 14:26, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * But Damaster98 called them "non-existent". Wow! Fleet Command (talk) 14:28, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay. Settled on this one.
 * Where on Adobe.com or Acrobat.com uses Windows Live ID? I went to both websites today and by going to "sign in" on both websites all I see is the websites asking me to login via Adobe ID, and has nothing to do with Windows Live ID. You need to prove it with a reliable source. Second, nothing I said has to do with WP:IDONTLIKEIT. My point has always been that the screenshot in the infobox should be showing the actual service (whether that be a screenshot of login.live.com or the login screen on mcp.microsoft.com), but it should NOT be a screenshot of an (outdated) page that describes what the service is. You're completely missing the point.
 * "MSN Hotmail" and "MSN Messenger" no longer exist, and you cannot be possibly still using them. The products/services that exist now is "Windows Live Hotmail" and "Windows Live Messenger", and it has been rebranded since 2006/2007, which is 4-5 years ago. If that is not "vastly outdated" I don't know what is. I have never suggested "hiding" outdated information, but editors have the responsibility to check that the facts they source from are still current and correct. Your edits in this article is treating these outdated information as if they're still correct as at this moment. The edits should at least recognise that they're what it used to be in the past so readers do not confuse that with what it currently is.
 * As I mentioned before, passport.net (also the source #9 your provided in the article) contains outdated information. Specifically regarding "Limited account", clicking on "Learn more about limited accounts" on passport.net brings you to a page which mentions nothing about Limited Accounts. However, I also just successfully registered for a USERNAME@passport.com Windows Live ID using the "Get started now" link on passport.net, but the account is not any different than any other "Hotmail ID" (a term that you made up yourself as I don't see it in the source given. I can still use USERNAME@passport.com account to sent/receive emails in Hotmail, and it essentially is just another email address. This is contradictory to what your source (#9) says about Limited Accounts - "If you don't want to use an email account to access Windows Live ID, you can sign up for a limited account." There is nothing "limited" about such account. It might be the case once upon a time, but certainly it is no longer the case, which further shows that the information on passport.net (and in source #9) is outdated. Your edits in the article certainly reads like as if they are still current.
 * No one is trying to hide anything. But an article on Wikipedia should reflect what is old information and what is current. If something is clearly outdated, the article should say so, and updated with what is accurate and current. Presenting outdated information as if they are current is clearly not the way to go. I am adding an Update template to the relevant section.
 * --Damaster98 (talk) 15:57, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Go to Acrobat.com or browserlab.adobe.com and click sign in; supply your existing Windows Live ID credentials. That's all.
 * "Your edits in this article is treating these outdated information as if they're still correct as at this moment." I just added a screenshot of passport.net and its URL to the article. Vastly outdated or not, passport.net is the homepage for Windows Live ID service. As for mentioning their being outdated: You never proposed it and I never contested it. (But perhaps I'd do when you did.)
 * "As I mentioned before, passport.net (also the source #9 your provided in the article) contains outdated information". Where is your reliable source? Your original research don't count. "Your edits in the article certainly reads like as if they are still current." Nonsense. I was especially careful to cite the source only.
 * What is the point in doing so when you and I are discussing it? bludgeoning the process, are we?
 * Fleet Command (talk) 18:02, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I just visited both Acrobat.com or browserlab.adobe.com, all it asks me for is Adobe ID, no mentions of Windows Live ID whatsoever. Where is your reliable source in this one? I don't think your original research count here.
 * Passport.net is not the homepage for Windows Live ID where readers can find current and accurate information about Windows Live ID. As I first mentioned, the "homepage" should be either login.live.com, or perhaps http://explore.live.com/windows-live-sign-in-help-center which allow readers to find more current and accurate information about Windows Live ID.
 * Here is a reliable source that shows the two types of Windows Live IDs people can create (updated May 14 2011): http://windowslivehelp.com/solution.aspx?solutionid=d975db23-1182-407a-8ff1-d7df0ddf1e3d . Nothing in there mentions "Limited ID", which you sourced from an outdated website (passport.net, which still contains info from 2007). Hence I still stand by my comment that "your edits in the article certainly reads like as if [these outdated information] are still current." I'm simply applying some common sense here.
 * What I did has nothing to do with WP:BLUDGEON, which is defined as "attempts to force their point of view by sheer volume of comments or repetition of an activity beyond the limits of good faith." All I did was adding the Update template, so that readers who are currently reading the article understands that what they're reading may be outdated (and they are referred to this discussion, should they require more information). What happened to assuming good faith?
 * --Damaster98 (talk) 02:39, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What I did has nothing to do with WP:BLUDGEON, which is defined as "attempts to force their point of view by sheer volume of comments or repetition of an activity beyond the limits of good faith." All I did was adding the Update template, so that readers who are currently reading the article understands that what they're reading may be outdated (and they are referred to this discussion, should they require more information). What happened to assuming good faith?
 * --Damaster98 (talk) 02:39, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Alright, let's wrap this up. It doesn't do if we play tug of the war for eternity. I can keep saying "Passport.net is and has always been the home page even if it is outdated" and you can keep refusing for whatever reason you like. So, there is two things we can do: (1)Wait a bit: I called a third opinion on this matter. It should come in soon. (2) Reach consensus over a third alternative that satisfies both: We can insert all three URLs in the article but remove all URLs from the infobox. Alternatively, we can insert all there links in the infobox but I really wish to keep this one as a last resort. Remember that passport.net features something that none of the other URLs do: Allows a user to create an @passport.com account.

 * By the way, you say original research? No, because I have source for it! However, I have decided to drop that line because (1) re-checking my source, Adobe has dumped passport.net login (I can still login because I am their "valued customer" or something to that effect.) (2) It was just an example anyway to deliver a point: Login pages aren't home pages! Still, Microsoft has other login screens that log you into a Passport account. See mcp.microsoft.com or connect.microsoft.com.

 * Fleet Command (talk) 14:21, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

 * My point had always been "passport.net was the home page for Windows Live ID but it no longer is". But anyway, I'm happy for your suggestion to "insert all three URLs in the article (in External Links section) but remove all URLs from the infobox", simply because passport.net does allow users to create an @passport.com account.

 * In relation to the Update tag in the "Overview" section of the article, my main concern is with the paragraph starting with "Windows Live ID service offers a user to make an ID by three different methods: ... " According to  (a more current and reliable source), there really is only two ways to create a Windows Live ID: (1) Using your existing email address, or (2) Create a new email address (either @hotmail.com, @live.com, @passport.com, or whatever Microsoft offers). This seems to correspond nicely to what you refer to as "Linked ID" and "Hotmail ID" in the article (although I don't think "Linked ID" is a correct term to use here as it also means something else). The so-called "Limited ID" you refer to in the article is just another "Hotmail ID", as a @passport.com account isn't any different from any other accounts created this way. I'd recommend updating this paragraph according to the information in this source instead, dropping the "Limited ID" bullet point.

 * About the Adobe.com thing, my main concern is regarding this line in the article: "There are also several other companies that use it, such as Adobe Systems and Hoyts." Can you please insert your source for this one, or drop this line in the article?

 * Thanks. --Damaster98 (talk) 15:02, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Windows Live Account
FleetCommand suggested to merge a miserable stub into, please do. –89.204.152.53 (talk) 09:17, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, yeah. I guess I am going to do it; per Silence and consensus, I assume no one objects. Fleet Command (talk) 22:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

New name- Microsoft account
As some know, it is now Microsoft account (not Microsoft Account). can we change the article name please- I don't want it to confuse users with Windows 8 calling it Microsoft account. See http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/windows-8-consumer-preview-whats-consumer-preview-142394  (BenBen1234 (talk) 12:48, 22 April 2012 (UTC))

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move. Cúchullain t/ c 14:08, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Microsoft account → Windows Live ID – The re-naming of Windows Live ID to Microsoft Account is based off interface elements contained within a pre-release version of the Windows operating system (or in laymans terms, only the Windows 8 and Visual Studio 2012 betas actually call them this. Everything else still calls them a Windows Live ID). It should not be moved until the name change has been officially pushed out. ViperSnake151  Talk  01:06, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - So how do we define the time when it is being "officially" being pushed out? Microsoft has officially announced the rebranding of Windows Live ID to Microsoft account. (Ref: ) As you mentioned, some products (such as Windows 8 and Visual Studio 2012) already refers to it as Microsoft account. Some service will gradually transition to the new name. Whilst some other products may never transition (do we really expect Microsoft to update mentions of "Windows Live ID" in Windows 7?). There will never be a fine line to say "yes, Microsoft account has been officially pushed out" today. In such case, I believe that the official announcement is sufficient. Furthermore, Windows Live ID already redirects to Microsoft account, and hence readers will have no issue reaching here. --Damaster98 (talk) 09:23, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

 * Oppose - For the same reason as above. heat_fan1 (talk) 15:50, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: I was thinking when the web login screens and account portal get updated to the design seen here, that's when the name change will be official. When they pushed out the Windows Live name change, how quickly will they change the name? Also, you reverted an edit that also contained a change detailing what Windows 8 can do with these accounts. ViperSnake151   Talk  16:08, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Support, for now: We should try to reflect common usage, not necessarily the latest announcement from the vendor (though that should certainly be cleared up in the lede, and redirects are a good idea too). When "Microsoft account" is used more widely - IE. across the broader intertubes, not just in Microsoft news bulletins &c - I would be happy for this article to be at "Microsoft account". bobrayner (talk) 12:34, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This is now a Microsoft-only credential?
Is it true that only Microsoft properties use this service? If so, I think this should be mentioned in the article, as it's a significant change from the project's original goal.--NapoliRoma (talk) 22:26, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Profile merger
I'm suggesting that Profile (Microsoft service) be merged into this article, as it is not particularly notable on its own, and can be covered within a section here. Profile is really just the profile management part of a user's Microsoft account, and is a fairly limited website. Cloudbound (talk) 22:58, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

 * As it's been 10 days now without any objections, I have completed the merger. The content from Profile is now summarised as a sub-section in the Overview section. Cloudbound (talk) 19:56, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

"The" before "Microsoft"
With all due respect, "The Microsoft account" means, "Microsoft, which is an account". (Compare with "The Windows operating system" = "Windows, which is an operating system" or "The Xbox gaming console" = "Xbox, which is a gaming console".) "Microsoft Account" is title of something here; it needs no "the".

Fleet Command (talk) 17:52, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Addendum: Okay, I investigated a little bit and it seems "Microsoft Account" is wrong. As a matter of fact, it is "Microsoft account". As in, "an account that pertains Microsoft". Standard noun adjunct construct. In that case, I think it should be treated link "Turing machine" and "Linux distribution"; again, "the" would be wrong. I might need to think as to how we proceed about fixing the article. Fleet Command (talk) 18:03, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I might have misunderstood the grammar, as I thought "the account", but it turns out this might be something where we don't need "the" (in this context). Was a bit confused.  TheCoffeeAddict   talk | contribs  06:51, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081023055730/http://www.liveside.net/developer/archive/2007/08/16/windows-live-id-web-authentication-is-final.aspx to http://www.liveside.net/developer/archive/2007/08/16/windows-live-id-web-authentication-is-final.aspx
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100807132226/http://winliveid.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AEE1BB0D86E23AAC!908.entry to http://winliveid.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!AEE1BB0D86E23AAC!908.entry
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080518185130/http://pcworld.about.com/od/instantmessaging1/Microsoft-Windows-Live-Flaw-Op.htm to http://pcworld.about.com/od/instantmessaging1/Microsoft-Windows-Live-Flaw-Op.htm

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optional or required?
Can the lede or 'Overview' section make it clear whether and when use of a Microsoft account is essential for the core functionality of any program or app? As I understand it, it mostly adds the memory of settings etc, and of course reaps lots of useful data for Microsoft. Or is it integral to using any of these services? Thanks to anyone who can clarify this in the article, near the top. Onanoff (talk) 16:18, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Companies
There were quite a few companies that offered Microsoft Passport back in the day. https://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia+microsoft+passport&oq=wikipedia+microsoft+passport&aqs=chrome..69i57j0j69i64l2.4743j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.203.8.168 (talk) 05:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Microsoft account


text:
Charlie Hodge

Charlie Hodge may refer to:

 * Charlie Hodge (guitarist) (1934–2006), musician and guitarist for Elvis Presley
 * Charlie Hodge (ice hockey) (1933–2016), National Hockey League goaltender

title: Charlie Hodge


text: Category:458 BC

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