text:
Talk:Max Scheler

Needs a biblio
This page needs a bibliography. It would be especially helpful to have a list of Scheler's works that have been translated into English.

I'd appreciate if somone would translate the first paragraph of the article into English. Dan 06:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

emotive, not emotional. Jeff Governale (this was emphasized in many class w/Dr. Frings,)

 * "Max Scheler extended the phenomenological method to include a reduction of the scientific method too, thus questioning the idea of Husserl that phenomenological philosophy should be pursued as a rigorous science. Natural and scientific attitudes (Einstellung) are both phenomenologically counterpositive and hence must be sublated in the advancement of the real phenomenological reduction which, in the eyes of Scheler, has more the shapes of an allround ascesis (Askese) rather than a mere logical procedure of suspending the existential judgments. The Wesenschau, according to Scheler, is an act of blowing up the Sosein limits of Sein A into the essential-ontological domain of Sein B, in short, an ontological participation of Sosenheiten, seeing the things as such (cf. the Buddhist concept of tathata, and the Christian theological quidditas)."

Does this paragraph have any meaning whatsoever? I've read it several times, but can't understand what it is supposed to mean (even for someone who knows Heidegger and German). And whence the jarring insertion of Buddhist Tathagata all of a sudden? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.153.88.235 (talk) 11:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

 * There is a list of books and I think most, if not all books are public domain now. I found "Die Ursachen Des Deutschenhasses": https://archive.org/details/MaxSchelerDieUrsachenDesDeutschenhasses/mode/2up - Shall that be included?105.0.4.164 (talk) 15:00, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Scheler_max.jpg 78.92.64.229 (talk) 19:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

This guy inspired Social Construction Theory! I'm going to add this section. This is relevant today and he needs credit for this.

 * Max Scheler's recommendation to T. Adorno was "mehr Dunkel." Darkness (obscurity) is supposed to be a characteristic of deep profundity.173.61.95.154 (talk) 19:16, 2 June 2019 (UTC)D'antay Cubbins

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title: Talk:Max Scheler


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Attic (architecture)

In classical architecture, the term attic refers to a storey (or low wall) above the cornice of a classical façade. The decoration of the topmost part of a building was particularly important in ancient Greek architecture and this came to be seen as typifying the Attica style, the earliest example known being that of the monument of Thrasyllus in Athens.

It was largely employed in Ancient Rome, where their triumphal arches utilized it for inscriptions or for bas-relief sculpture. It was used also to increase the height of enclosure walls such as those of the Forum of Nerva. By the Italian revivalists it was utilized as a complete storey, pierced with windows, as found in Andrea Palladio's work in Vicenza and in Greenwich Hospital, London. One well-known large attic surmounts the entablature of St. Peter's Basilica, which measures 39 ft in height.

Decorated attics with pinnacles are often associated with the Late Renaissance (Mannerist architecture) period in Poland and are viewed as a distinct feature of Polish historical architecture (attyka polska). Many examples can be found throughout the country, notably at Wawel Castle in Kraków, Gdańsk, Poznań, Lublin, Tarnów, Zamość, Sandomierz and Kazimierz Dolny. Possibly the best example of a rich Italianate attic is at Krasiczyn Castle.

This usage became current in the 17th century from the use of Attica style pilasters as adornments on the top story's façade. By the 18th century this meaning had been transferred to the space behind the wall of the highest story (i.e., directly under the roof), producing the modern meaning of the word "attic".

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Attic (architecture)


text:
Talk:Cherry Hill, New Jersey

Credit for name origin
I moved the following from the article to the talk page:

My sources for this were interviews during a New Jersey Historical Commission grant I had for Cherry Hill history, and also copies of then-contemporary Cherry Hill News issues. The News was a weekly paper at the time that, as is apparent now, changed its name from Delaware Township News to Cherry Hill News. The editor, Richard Smith, was one of my interviews for the history project--Robert Strauss

Thunderbunny 04:35, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

The Movie Cherry hill high
It's an old teen movie that came out in 1977 Cherry Hill High was that made in Cherry hill?

 * If you mean this movie, then no, it was not made in Cherry Hill. The "Cherry" in the movie title refers to the premise that all the girls begin the movie as virgins.

Early name(s) for Cherry Hill
In the second paragraph, it describes Delaware Township and Waterford Township as early names for Cherry Hill. I spent most of my childhood growing up in Cherry Valley across the street from Colestown Cemetary. Some of the graves are very early; in fact, prior to the either of the above-referenced names. Was the area originally called Colestown? Hokeman 23:45, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Colestown was one of many smaller towns that were subsumed into Delaware Township, like Ellisburg. According to the New Jersey Historical Society, Colestown is now part of Cherry Hill. Rpresser 21:27, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Before Delaware Township, the are was part of Waterford and also part of Gloucester County before it was split to form Camden County. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.61.25.234 (talk) 04:26, 5 February 2016 (UTC) Hokeman, I grew up in the same neighborhood, from 1965-1979. On Garfield Ave. Perhaps we know each other? I don't know how to contact you directly, and am resorting to this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Garfieldavenue (talk • contribs) 00:36, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Article structure/organization
As per articles such as Cupertino, California, we can add sections for
 * Geography
 * Neighborhoods
 * Layout
 * Economy

And break up Demographics into
 * General
 * Statistical

I think this would provide a good template for article expansion. --ishu 11:49, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Also we should build an infobox. Naperville, Illinois is another example we can use. --ishu 18:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Infobox
I'm drafting one on this page. --ishu 01:35, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Elevation and latitude/longitude here.

Noted residents and links
The noted residents section has a great deal of links, for example, why not change these:
 * Brian Baldinger, former National Football League player and television sportscaster.
 * Lawrence Bender, Academy Award-winning film and television producer whose credits include Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and Good Will Hunting. Attended Cherry Hill High School East.
 * Mike Bibby, National Basketball Association basketball player who now plays for the Sacramento Kings

into these:
 * Brian Baldinger, former professional football player and television sportscaster.
 * Lawrence Bender, Academy Award-winning film and television producer whose credits include Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and Good Will Hunting. Attended Cherry Hill High School East.
 * Mike Bibby, professional basketball player who now plays for the Sacramento Kings was born in Cherry Hill.

I wanted to add that Mike Bibby was born in Cherry Hill, but noticed how cluttered the links make this sentence. We don't need to link every fact of a person's life, since people who want more detail can just read the person's article. At the very least, we don't have to link to television for heaven's sake!

As a side note, shouldn't we change the header to read Notable residents...? --ishu 19:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Why was the entire "Notable Residents" section removed on 2007-02-07T19:35:14 72.82.232.47 ?? Henryhank 22:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Good catch! It appears to have been blanked by a vandal, but nobody noticed until now. I have restored it. Thanks, --MCB 22:49, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Major Coxson murder
Does anyone have printed info (besides residents' memories) of the Major Coxson murders in Muhammed Ali's house on Barbara Drive on June 8, 1973? To refresh the memory cells, it was in April 1973 when he and his family were murdered, execution style, with bullets through the eyes. See Allah behind bars, Mike Marley's FightNightNews.com, and Studies of Organized Crime, Volume 2 Chapters 4 and Chapter 10. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Discpad (talk • contribs)

 * I can't find any source that says the murder occurred at Ali's house, only the CityPaper article that says it happened in Cherry Hill. While Major Coxson might be a good article subject, I'm not sure he should be listed as a notable resident if his only connection to CH was having been murdered there. (The "mayoral candidate" part you quoted refers to Camden, not CH.) If there was a high-profile murder at Ali's house I think it would have been a much bigger story, no? Also, one of the sources in the Major Coxson article makes reference to a different Ali, not the boxer, which might be a source of confusion. With no reliable source, I think the reference to Muhammed Ali's house needs to be removed from that article as well per WP:BLP. --MCB 04:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I remember that morning well on the way to private school, as a police helicopter was hovering above the area: We were just south of Kresson Road in Woodcrest on Hartwood Drive; while Muhammad Ali's atrium mansion was just north, on Barbara Drive.

 * Incidentally, Ali did not have that particular house (that the Coxson family was slain in) built: We walked through it several times when it was being built back in 1968; and construction was almost complete when the builder put the property up for sale; and Ali bought it. (This I know, because my parents almost bought it before Ali swooped in and grabbed it!) Discpad (talk) 00:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

 * It would not have been unusual for a murder like that to be swept under the carpet, as Cherry Hill in the '50's through '70's was a blossoming haven for young, successful families, and it would have tarnished the town's image. "Discpad", perhaps you will remember a massacre that was perpetrated by a disgruntled employee at an office on King's Highway in the 1960's? (No one seems to remember that, perhaps it was covered up too!) 69.136.79.201 (talk) 03:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Name of article
I was bold and moved the article from "Cherry Hill Township, New Jersey" to "Cherry Hill, NJ". Cherry Hill is the most commonly used name. The intro still reflects on it being a township, and the official name (as written on the census) is still in the article. Greekboy (talk) 04:47, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I have no objection to the choice of name of this article. In the future, I would strongly suggest that efforts be made to gauge consensus before moving articles that have been stable for several years with the same title. Alansohn (talk) 04:57, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this should move back to "Cherry Hill Township, New Jersey". (1) That is consistent with the other township names for Camden County and in general on Wikipedia. (2) It is the official name of the place as evident from a search showing "Cherry Hill Township" is the name on the township's website and Facebook pages: https://www.google.com/search?q=cherry+hill+township IntOMIatrA (talk) 02:00, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Merge with Merchantville?
Recently, I heard that Cherry Hill might consolidate with its neighbor, Merchantville. Here are sources that indicate the merge proposal:,. Scotch Plains and Fanwood are also considering merging together:. Any ideas? Tinton5 (talk) 00:37, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The number of municipalities in New Jersey is ludicrous, though the decline from 566 to 565 with the merger of the Princetons might be a harbinger of common sense, and goading from the state can propel some of these possible mergers only so far. The Princeton merger bid failed on no less than five previous occasions, demonstrating that the urge for home rule is strong and can usually be overcome only with strong pre-existing ties and evidence that both parties will come out ahead financially without one being swallowed up by the other. Scotch Plains used to be Fanwood Township and Scotch Plains and Fanwood already share a common school district. Scotch Plains is bigger than Fanwood by a 3-1 margin, but might be close enough for a very, very rough merger of equals. Cherry Hill is almost 20 times larger than Merchantville, a situation that could convince Merchantville residents that they (and their interests) would be lost in a consolidation. By contrast, the Princetons are almost equal in size. You'll here more talk of such prospective consolidations in the future, but until the voters agree there's little to add but the talk. Alansohn (talk) 20:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Great points. We have more towns than California. How insane. Formerly a Cherry Hill resident, I can say that Merchantville has no point of being a separate location. With a population of almost 4000, not even close to a quarter of what CH has (over 70,000). Now currently living in Monmouth, I believe Freehold Twp and Boro should be one Freehold. It would certainly be cost effective and reduce confusion with mail. Also, Englishtown and Manalapan, Berlin Boro and Twp, etc...

 * A municipal consolidation page was needed I think, but needs expansion. Tinton5 (talk) 02:26, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

News article to consider for inclusion in Economy section
Title: South Jersey biotech firm raises $1.8M → http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/blog/health-care/2013/08/south-jersey-biotech-firm-raises-18m.html --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 00:46, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Fire companies
Are we going to add lists of police stations, recycling centers, homeless shelters, etc. too? --Neil N  talk to me 02:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Emergency services are treated across Wikipedia as being far more encyclopedic than homeless shelters. The material is a standard in thousands of articles and is backed by ample reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn (talk) 02:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's one primary source and I've come across no other top-level city article that has this level of detail. There's probably ones for New Jersey which you seem to take very keen interest in but others? --Neil N  talk to me 02:21, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The Category:Fire departments of the United States lists about 250 fire department articles, with eight of these in New Jersey. Every one of the fire department articles has detail regarding fire stations similar to what's here, using similar kinds of sources; It would seem rather hard to argue that the material regarding fire stations is completely and entirely unencyclopedic. A place like Cherry Hill, with only 70,000 residents, is unlikely to merit a standalone article for its fire department, which is why it's included in the article for the municipality. I don't have any interest in adding details for fire stations and (to the best of my recollection) I have never added details to any article ab initio, though I'm sure that I have added sources here (perhaps) and in other articles. I've shown that the material is encyclopedic and widely used in articles across Wikipedia. I'm not sure that there is any policy argument to justify deletion of the material here, nor is it apparent that you have offered any such argument. Alansohn (talk) 02:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, the material is too detailed for a top-level municipality article. --Neil N  talk to me 03:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

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“Extensive” Korean American businesses
User:castncoot added this copy:
 * An extensive array of businesses owned by Korean Americans has emerged along Marlton Pike (Route 70) in Cherry Hill since 2010, with signage in Hangul ubiquitous along this stretch.

This claim is unsourced. I'm familiar with this area, and driving down Rt 70 today I'm not sure where you’d find “ubiquitous” signage. Any inspection would be original research anyway. What suggestions do folks have? Some sources would help for sure. FYI, a citation needed template was applied June 2021. --Ishu (talk) 01:19, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

 * What about something like this:
 * {| class="wikitable"

! Racial/Ethnic Group !! 2000 !! 2010 !! 2020
 * + Racial Groups in Cherry Hill, NJ since 2000
 * Asian|| 9% || 12% || 13%
 * Black|| 5% || 6% || 7%
 * Hispanic|| 3% || 6% || 8%
 * White|| 85%|| 78% || 74%
 * }
 * https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/cherryhilltownshipcamdencountynewjersey
 * Then add some descriptive commentary
 * --Ishu (talk) 18:06, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 * }
 * https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/cherryhilltownshipcamdencountynewjersey
 * Then add some descriptive commentary
 * --Ishu (talk) 18:06, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cherry Hill, New Jersey


text:
Zayed Port

Zayed Port (ميناء زايد) also called Mina Zayed, is a commercial deep-water port owned by the Abu Dhabi Ports that serves Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. Established in 1968, Zayed Port is in the northeast section of Abu Dhabi city. It was officially inaugurated and became fully operational in 1972, and is named after Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, the former President of the United Arab Emirates. The transfer of Zayed Port's container traffic to the newly developed US$7.2 billion Khalifa Port container terminal was completed in 2012.

Geography
Zayed Port covers an area of 535 hectares and contains 21 berths with depths ranging from 6 to 15 metres and a total berth length of 4,375 metres. It's one of four major ports in the emirate: the city's Zayed Port remains the gateway for general cargo vessels, RORO (roll-on/roll-off) and is emerging as a destination for international luxury cruise ship tourism; the nearby Free Port caters to smaller vessels, tugs, barges and service crafts; Musaffah Port is located in the heart of the industrial township of Musaffah; while the new state-of-the-art Khalifa Port in Taweelah handles all the emirate's container shipping.

History
In light of the increasing importance of container shipping, a well-equipped container terminal was established at Zayed Port back in 1982. Covering an area of 41 hectares, the terminal had a storage capacity of 15,000 TEUs at any given time. Four deep water berths were provided with a total length of 931 metres and 15 metres depth. The berths were equipped with five 40-tonne cranes. As a result, Zayed Port's throughput in 1998 increased 34 per cent in container volume and 25 per cent in general cargo over 1997. The port's capacity to hold chilled, cool and frozen products was significantly increased when a 15,000 tone cold store became operational in 1999.

Benefiting from its strategic location in the heart of the capital, Zayed Port was instrumental in bolstering Abu Dhabi’s international trade, being the main gateway for trade in the emirate and playing a pivotal role in supporting Abu Dhabi’s Economic Vision 2030, the government’s drive to achieve economic diversification.

As part of this vision, all container shipping in Zayed Port was eventually moved to the Abu Dhabi Ports' newly developed AED 26.5 billion AED (USD 7.2 billion) megaproject Khalifa Port in Taweelah between Abu Dhabi and Dubai. Following the 100% TEU traffic transition from Zayed Port in September 2012, commercial operations at this new flagship state-of-the-art gateway were officially inaugurated by the President of the United Arab Emirates, Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al Nahyan on 12 December 2012.

Zayed Port is now the focus of the Abu Dhabi Ports's plans to redevelop the port as a major luxury cruise ship terminal. Abu Dhabi is currently a seasonal home port for AIDA Cruises, while Celebrity Cruises announced in December 2014 that they would be home porting their cruise ship Celebrity Constellation in Abu Dhabi from November, 2016 to January 2017.

In 2014 the Red Bull Air Race World Championship season opened in Zayed Port. This was the seventh occasion the competition was hosted in Abu Dhabi and marked the first time the city saw the event since 2010, when it had hosted the opener for six consecutive years starting from 2005.

title: Zayed Port


text: User talk:202.77.190.34

title: User talk:202.77.190.34


text:
Andy Ackerman

Robert Andrew Ackerman (born September 19, 1956) is an American director, producer, and script editor who is best known for his work on Seinfeld, The New Adventures of Old Christine and the HBO series Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Early life and education
Ackerman was born in Los Angeles, California. His father Robert was a lithographer, and his mother Rosemary was a substitute teacher and homemaker. He was raised in Glendale. He attended Loyola High School in Los Angeles before graduating from Santa Clara University in 1978 with a degree in general humanities.

Career
Ackerman began his career as a videotape editor on WKRP in Cincinnati (1979–82) and Newhart, winning an Emmy for the former. He also was an assistant editor on Welcome Back, Kotter. He replaced Tom Cherones as director of Seinfeld starting in its sixth season, ultimately directing 89 episodes.

Ackerman directed every episode of The New Adventures of Old Christine, and has directed or guest directed such series as Everybody Loves Raymond, Becker, Cheers, Wings, Frasier, Two and a Half Men, Andy Richter Controls the Universe, Perfect Couples, Whitney and The Ellen Show. He also directed the pilot episode of the 2006 Fox series Happy Hour.

Ackerman has received 15 Primetime Emmy Awards nominations, winning three.

Personal life
Ackerman is a Catholic. He and his wife Betsy, also a Santa Clara University graduate, are the parents of four children.

title: Andy Ackerman


text:
Talk:The Darkness (character)

Jackie's Superhero box
I find the superhero box is more appropriate under jackie's name since the article deals with the darkness as a whole and not jackie, however the box directly deals with jackie. This way if more darkenss users appear or previous ones become more promiment their boxes can also be placed here like in other articles with multiple characters using the same title.Midusunknown 04:56, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Passing of the Power
This article states "The Darkness is passed down a family line from father to son, leaving the previous user (and taking his life) as his first child is conceived. The power then manifests in the child on his 21st birthday."

What if that first child is a female? The father would die according to this and the daughter wouldn't get it either. Maybe this deserves a rewrite, but I've never read the series so I won't.Abrynkus 00:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The first child is ALWAYS a male. The Darkness makes sure of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.149.4.142 (talk) 16:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Angelusprofile.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Darkness25 2.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:The Darkness 07 (Art by Marc Silvestri).jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

quote from levels
Does anyone know where i can get the quote from the comic "Levels" where in the beginning as the Darkness manifests in Anthony Estacado, it says "I am the Darkness, the Darkness am I" and later on something like "Twist his soul and turn it sour" or something to that effect? Any help is appreciated. Heart2rokk (talk) 16:55, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Editing collections
The Collections area of the page was of particular use to me for collecting The Darkness Volume One, however, I noticed my comic shop had two books in particular that weren't listed: Original Sin and Ultimate Collection. These have been added to the article, with best respect to keeping the Collections listings in numerical order. Rpgod2 (talk) 09:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

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Talk:Frank Zeidler

Pleasure
I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Zeidler in 1994, when I was a bus operator for the Milwaukee County Transit System-I drove a charter around the city while he conducted a guided tour for residents of an East Side retirement community. He was (and still is, as I've seen from his occasional TV appearances) well-read, polite, funny, engaging, and passionate about Milwaukee. He is probably the only person I've ever met that loves Milwaukee more than I do; and spending that morning with him on that tour is a memory I'll always cherish. -Steven MacArthur- Milwaukee

 * Zeidler was an amazing person-- accomplished, effective, well-liked. This article really does not do justice to him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.76.134.181 (talk) 01:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I never met him but lived pretty close to him when I lived in Milwaukee. I know two stories that give you an idea of what he was about. 1) His neighborhood like many urban areas changed from white to black, from working class to ghetto, but he never moved. He liked his neighbors and they liked him. I can't even think of city where the mayor was ever so much a part of his community. 2) In early 1998 the right-of-center Milwaukee Journal tried to dismiss the socialists of Milwaukee as being into clean government and good public services (which they were) and motivated by love for civic betterment. He wrote a response making it very clear that they believed in class struggle and that was their motivation for being elected.

And I agree, this article does not do the man justice. Asinimali (talk) 05:48, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I loved and cherished the man, and was privileged for over 25 years to call him my comrade and my brother in Christ; but the kinds of things that made him the exemplar of decency he was, have no place in a Wikipedia article. We must maintain our neutral point of view here; and he would certainly understand that. -- Orange Mike  |   Talk  13:35, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

This page has been recently cited on slashdot (http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1457098&cid=30228366) as an example of some of the problems with Wikipeida especially with WP:OWN and other issues stemming from the administrators. 130.39.191.215 (talk) 20:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Additional source
Rast, Joel. 2006. “Governing the Regimeless City: The Frank Zeidler Administration in Milwaukee, 1948-1960.” Urban Affairs Review 42: 81-112 looks like it might be useful. -- Orange Mike  |   Talk  15:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Something that should be checked out, but first we need to expand the article with the unused information found in the references. --TIAYN (talk) 18:36, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Legalization of abortion
Could somebody discuss Zeidler's politics about women's access to legal abortions? Was there evolution of his stance? How was his opposition received (locally in Milwaukee and nationally in the SPUSA)? Kiefer .Wolfowitz 13:18, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * He was in a minority within the party, being old-fashioned in his stance on this matter, and most folks just sort of shrugged and said, "Well, that's Frank for you." I don't know how much, if anything, was ever written and published about the matter. -- Orange Mike  |   Talk  15:17, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

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Categories
He is in categories "American Christian pacifists" and "American Christian socialists", although the article says nothing about his pacifism or his religion. I am not saying the categories are wrong - they're not - but the article at present does not support them. 216.8.143.171 (talk) 17:31, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I've linked to one of the articles already referenced which talks about his Lutheran beliefs; more could be extracted from his autobiography, but I don't have a copy at hand. -- Orange Mike |  Talk  17:44, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Place of birth

 * Egon Ziegler: Frank P. Zeidler (1912 - 2006) (in German)

by that ... Zeidler was born 1912 in Tachau, Austria-Hungary (in 1900 98% of its 5000 inhabitants declared themselves as German speaking). In 1914 the familiy moved to the States, becoming Americans, and so on... --Goesseln (talk) 19:47, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not what our other sources say. I'd like to see some more solid evidence. -- Orange Mike |  Talk  19:53, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Frank Zeidler


text:
Talk:Flashlight

Incandescent lumens
This article was written by a kindergarten class. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.19.29.109 (talk) 23:07, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

I tagged the 10,000 lumens statement as dubious, because I find it incredibly hard to believe that any flashlight produces that many lumens. For comparison, a standard 100 W household bulb produces around 1700 lumens. So scaling linearly (yes, I know incandescents increase in efficiency as power goes up, but this effect is not dramatic) we would expect said "flashlight" to be 588 W or so. I just don't see any handheld device putting out that sort of power, especially one that is battery-operated.Ngchen (talk) 04:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

 * The article explains it is a halogen bulb instead of normal incandescents, a maximum of 38 lumens per watt can be achieved as per the halogen lamp article. That puts the power to around 260W which less than your estimates but still way too high for portable use. --antilivedT 09:44, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Tag was needed, reworded to fix, added ref. Most powerful incan. flashlight is probably the "The Torch" from Wicked Lasers, about 4,100 lumens using a 50w halogen bulb:.

 * That's still 82 Lm/W - still way above what a filament bulb is capable of. 109.153.242.10 (talk) 16:15, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The company Web site says 100 watt bulb - how's 41 lumens/watt sound? A little more plausible, especially if you don't care how long the lamp lasts. (And it doesnt' say how many watts they actually use). The reference for Incandescent light bulb says that tungsten at its melting point can theoretically produce around 52 lumens per watt and that the best a blackbody radiator can do is 95 lumens per watt. Halogen doesn't change those fundamentals. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:13, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

 * I can accept that. Back in the good old days of non halogen photoflood bulbs, a 275 W bulb produced the equivalent light of around 8 x 100 W (UK) light bulbs.  Around 36-37 lm/W.  Quite impressive.  But the bulb had an average life of just 2 hours!. 109.153.242.10 (talk) 18:24, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Custom-made flashlights with more than 10,000 lumens exist. This one is based on a 600W halogen lamp. Runtime with one battery charge: 5-10 minutes. "The Torch" may be the brightest commercial flashlight around. By the way, it uses a 100W bulb, there is no halogen bulb with more than 50 lm/W anyway. I'm not even aware of any bulb rated at 41 lm/W, so it's probably overdriven. Aragorn2 (talk) 20:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Cowan or Hubert?
This Web page http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/flashlight.htm says the Cowan story is not the case. Research needed - I wonder if the 1947 New Yorker is available at my local library 'fiche collection.... --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Intrinsic safety
Could we get a reference for a flashlight that is "intrinsically safe"? I'm not a hazardous areas expert but from what I've read an "intrinsically safe" device is one that has such low stored energy in it that it cannot ignite a flammable atmosphere. This is different from "non-incendive" or so-called "explosion-proof" devices that are designed either so that sparks and hot spots can't form, or so that any sparks that happen can't set off an explosion outside the device. You can, for example, get an explosion-proof motor starter but it has a heavy cover and deep threaded joints to prevent flames from escaping the enclosure when the contacts break a circuit. It's non-incendive and explosion-proof, but not intrinsically safe. Hmm, the article Intrinsic safety isn't too reassuring either, or maybe IS is more inclusive than I think. --Wtshymanski (talk) 04:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It appears they do call them "intrinsically safe". --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:27, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh, dear... another US-specific article!
At the risk of probably flogging a long-dead argument, elsewhere in the world we use torches - things that illuminate continuously, and that don't flash. Blitterbug 22:10, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Speak for yourself. A couple of my flashlights send Morse code (by flashing). --Wtshymanski (talk) 00:44, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

 * He has a point, only the Americans use 'flashlights'. Our hand held torches flash just as well (when equipped with a suitable button). 109.153.242.10 (talk) 18:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree.America is the only place where flashlight is the preferred term where as torch is used in the UK,Ireland and the rest of the english speaking worldEggilicious (talk) 23:50, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Even Agatha Christie knew what a flashlight was. []. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:44, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
 * ... and I (here in northern England) didn't know that they were called "torches" until I met people from further south. We still call them flashlights.    D b f i r s   14:22, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

 * In this case, anyway, "flashlight" is convenient natural disambiguation from (non-electronic) torches. --BDD (talk) 22:41, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

 * To clarify linguistic differences: what many of us call a 'flashlight' was first marketed as an 'electric hand torch' (hence 'torch'); the term 'flashlight' was coined because the battery contacts were very weak and caused early designs to flash on and off randomly. Frednotbob (talk) 19:58, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

C class
What our tagger didn't mention is the criteria that make this C class and what's missing to improve it. The criteria read: The article is substantial, but is still missing important content or contains a lot of irrelevant material. The article should have references to reliable sources, but may still have significant issues or require substantial cleanup. ... The article is better developed in style, structure and quality than Start-Class, but fails one or more of the criteria for B-Class. It may have some gaps or missing elements; need editing for clarity, balance or flow; or contain policy violations such as bias or original research. Articles on fictional topics are likely to be marked as C-Class if they are written from an in-universe perspective.

Specific guidance would be more useful than a generic tag. What's missing? What's biassed? What's original research? What are the vague "issues" that displeased the god-like eye? --Wtshymanski (talk) 23:53, 30 December 2011 (UTC) Here's what the gods have decreed for B-class The article meets the six B-Class criteria:

The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited. The use of either tags or citation templates such as is not required. The article reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain obvious omissions or inaccuracies. It contains a large proportion of the material necessary for an A-Class article, although some sections may need expansion, and some less important topics may be missing. The article has a defined structure. Content should be organized into groups of related material, including a lead section and all the sections that can reasonably be included in an article of its kind. The article is reasonably well-written. The prose contains no major grammatical errors and flows sensibly, but it certainly need not be "brilliant". The Manual of Style need not be followed rigorously. The article contains supporting materials where appropriate. Illustrations are encouraged, though not required. Diagrams and an infobox etc. should be included where they are relevant and useful to the content. The article presents its content in an appropriately understandable way. It is written with as broad an audience in mind as possible. Although Wikipedia is more than just a general encyclopedia, the article should not assume unnecessary technical background and technical terms should be explained or avoided where possible. Any help here? --Wtshymanski (talk) 23:57, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Suggest merge
Suggest merge the non-redundant contents from Solar powered flashlight here; it's a minor variation in flashlight construction. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:52, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - This article is already plenty long, and merging more information will just make it longer, and hence, more difficult to read and find information. Plus, Solar powered flashlight is a reasonable content fork of sorts, and is an established, comprehensive and well-referenced article. Northamerica1000 (talk) 13:58, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose - The article has enough content and significant notability to keep as it is. Suraj  T  03:48, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment by nominator - There's very little non-redundant content at Solar powered flashlight - there's a definition (which is already here), a few platitudes about general features of flashlights, and about 3 lines particular to solar flashlights. It's not going to break anybody's browser if it's included here, and shouldn't an encyclopedia article be comprehensive? --Wtshymanski (talk) 04:39, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
 * After a minor tweak to clarify what could be misunderstood to be general features of flashlights, all of the content refers specifically to solar flashlights and not general features of flashlights. Suraj  T  05:53, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Lumens for tasks
I'd like to find a good reference for how many lumens is useful for various tasks: Ranges overlap considerably and personal taste dictates - but it would be useful to turn the abstract notion of "lumens" into ranges that the reader could relate to his own experience. I've found some advertising sites and at least one blog, but I'm really looking for better references. Not finding too many scholarly papers yet, some on miner's lamps and flashlight use in Kenya...but the Web is very wide. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:58, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Less than 1 lumen - supplement to night-adapted vision, avoiding bumping into furniture or stepping on cat
 * 2-3 lumens - finding a keyhole, walking around a room with dark-adapted vision, close reading or close work
 * 20-30 lumens - general household flashlight purposes, walking good trails (2 D cell incandescents at lower end of this range)
 * 100-200 lumens - Tactical flashlights, suitable to identify a man-size target at firearms range (one lumen per yard is what I've read), but without too much backscatter
 * 100 or more - Outdoor, long range uses; search and rescue; inspection lights, caving
 * 500-1000 - Orienteering, running unfamiliar trails at night
 * 100-1000 - Bicycle headlights, brighter lights in urban areas
 * That'd be useful. Good luck.   Will Beback    talk    17:31, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Someone doesn't understand what lumens are. A 1000 lm bicycle lamp will be a very bright light source indeed. (Lumen is the measure of the total perceived light output of a light source integrated isotropically).  A bicycle lamp light source will be less than 5 lm.   Focussing the beam in a particular direction doesn't change the lumen output of the source. 109.153.242.10 (talk) 18:33, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes it would be a very bright lamp. 5 lumens doesn't cut it in the bike world any more. These folks claim 1400 lumens for their bike light. We've come a long way from the PR2 bulb and 2 D cells. (A North American low-beam auto headlamp is somewhere around 1600 lumens.) --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:28, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ...and it is going to be even harder to find sources that match candelas to tasks! --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:37, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

IEC hasn't gotten around to writing the definitive standard for flashlight lumens for tasks, so the table with the vague and general categories is as good as its going to get for now; at least it has a published source. Once can't refer to the megabytes of stuff ont eh flashlght enthusiasts forums, which would generally agree with the rough and ready groupings in the table. --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:54, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Teaching grade school science is harder than it used to be
When I was a boy and the world was new, one unit of grade-school science classes was to teach about electricity by unscrewing the flashlight and showing the battery, bulb, and switch; maybe a little lecture on the reflector, too. A modern flashlight would be better suited to teaching a 3rd year EE course, with converters, pulse-width modulation, microprocessor controls, etc. (If someone has written about it, it might be a useful comment to make in the article - a flashlight may not be the simple model electrical system of years gone by.) It gets worse...we were taught pennies don't stick to a magnet but nickels do, and you can make electricity by stacking "copper" pennies and silver dimes. The first time I saw a bronze-coated steel penny cling to a magnet, a little part of my childhood died....--Wtshymanski (talk) 14:56, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Nostalgia is not what it used to be ... In what way does this contribution seek to improve the article? - DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 16:55, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

 * A flashlight was the canonical simple system used to illustrate basic electrical concepts. Modern flashlights may not be a good vehicle for demonstrating these concepts. If someone has run across literature that describes that as a problem in teaching, it might be worth adding that observation to the article. --Wtshymanski (talk) 17:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Agreed. I think this is overcomplicating the topic. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 01:09, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Beam visibility
ANSI FL1 used 0.25 lux illuminance, based on a full moon. But we can easily see a magnitude 0 object, it attracts attention in the night sky. The moon is mag -12.5 or so, which makes it (2.51^12.5) about 99,000 times more illuminance than starlight; and the square root of 99,000 is 314. So, you can see a flashlight several hundred times further than the FL 1 0.25 lux "working distance" states; which is why optimistic flashlight vendors prefer to write things like "Projects a beam visible for over a mile!" instead of giving the ANSI working distance of, say, 20 feet. But I need a citation for this....--Wtshymanski (talk) 21:27, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

 * America only standards. Find ISO something. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 01:05, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

DIY and Mod'ing of Flashlights
I am thinking this is a worthy topic for its own section.

There are multiple well visited forums where all people do is trade stories on how they upgraded their torches (flashlights). I would think it is a very strong hobby that deserves some mention. There must be a way to add this information without it turning into an advertisement for those forums, yes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarcoPolo419 (talk • contribs) 09:47, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Gallery
Each of those types of flashlight is mentioned in the text, and its probably better to collect the pictures in one place than have them competing with text for screen space. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:53, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

 * Another editor commented that policy discourages galleries. I agree too. This is not a collage of historical flashlights. We simply don't need that many pictures. Cantaloupe2 (talk) 01:04, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't think there's encyclopedic value in showing the reader what a diver's light looks like, what a headlamp looks like, what an inspection light looks like, what a penlight looks like?  Why should we conceal this from the reader?  --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:49, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't the point of Galleries to describe a gallery such as this one? --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:51, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia policy does not totally disallow galleries of images. They are permitted where they are appropriate.   There are times when they are wholly inappropriate and this is one of those ocassions.  Wikipedia policy discourages the use of galleries of images that illustrate different types of item that are otherwise relevant to the article.  The policy is to encourage the image being moved to a section of article describing the item in question.  For example: the gallery includes 'one type of diver's light' even though a diver's light receives a mention in the main body of the article.  The illustration could therefore, usefully be moved to that section of the artcle.  In fact, the subject of five out of the six gallery images receives a mention in the text of the article and each image should be moved to the relevant section.  The remaining image, the non-incendive flashlight, receives no mention and thus either suitable text added to support the image (to which it can be moved) or the image deleted as it does not illustrate any point in the article.  The logical extension to having some relevant illustrations in the gallery at the end would be to move every illustration in the article to that gallery, but that would be obviously absurd as any illustration is much more useful near the text that describes it.  I B Wright (talk) 12:33, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

 * I have now moved the gallery images into the appropriate parts of the article so that each illustration is near to the text that describes it, a much better arrangement. I did not understand Wtshymanski's first point above.  I or anybody else had not suggested removing the images, and the tag certainly did not say this. I B Wright (talk) 13:02, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't think the text is rather "winding" around these images? It's somewhat a matter of taste; we can recall books in which the "color plates" were separate pages, perhaps a long way from the text. The non-incendive flashlight is also called "explosion proof" and is referenced in the text. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:11, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * An ever present problem when there are a large number of images on the subject. Mr Wright has done surprisingly well I think, particularly as he has kept the text in the 'Formats and specialized designs' section in one column (as it has, not unsurprisingly, the most number of images).

 * My only (minor) observation is the use of breaks to put the 'Power sources' section separate from the images. He has assumed that everone is using the same screen size as he is.  I'm sure there is a Wiki command to do the job properly, but I don't know what it is.  Can anyone hepl here?

 * I don't understand your comment on colour plates being separate pages in older books. Actually it wasn't colour specifically but all half-tone renderings of photographs.  This was not to keep the pictures separate from the text, but because half-tone printing at the time required a much higher grade of paper than was used for the text and line drawings. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 16:29, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Incidentally, if you have a valid critisism of something that has been missed, then it is better to say so here rather than put it in the edit summary where it can easily be missed (as indeed I had done until I accidentally spotted it nearly an hour later). Why didn't you just restore the missing alt text if it's so important? DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 16:59, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Vandals
Some vandal has apparently gone through and changed most instances of the word "flashlight" to "fleshlight." This should definitely be fixed. 68.235.179.47 (talk) 04:18, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

 * It was fixed about four minutes after your warning (thank you for that), and the vandal (96.42.220.214) was warned.   D b f i r s   18:31, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Torch
Torch is very widespread use, and is not limited to the Commonwealth. ONE example is Ireland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.99.189.241 (talk) 13:29, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Nor is "flashlight" limited to America.   D b f i r s   15:56, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
 * And Ireland is a part of the british isles. Irish can be prime minister of the UK.  Part of Ireland is in the UK (that last one I don't actually believe, honestly, the country should be the primary topic of Ireland, not the island...but that's another story for another day).. ipuser 94.14.212.141 (talk) 08:12, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * What are you going on about?   D b f i r s   05:56, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Ignore him.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.99.189.241 (talk) 13:07, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Can we please change the title of this article to ensure it says "Torch" RyanPLB (talk) 22:34, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

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Request to movie Flashlight to Torch
As torch is the widely used term, please move this page to Torch. Let's keep the terminology global. --27.112.120.117 (talk) 21:05, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

 * Well the term flashlight is well-understood here in the UK, though I agree that "torch" seems to be taking over. Usage has changed in my lifetime.  A torch suggests flames ...  Dbfirs  21:34, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

 * I'm from India and I haven't heard the term flashlight at all. It's either 'torch' or 'torchlight'. 27.112.120.117 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:08, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

 * I would have thought that Indian English would have picked up the older British usage, but apparently not. Our article on Torch has two links to flashlight, but the disambiguation page for torchlight has no link to flashlight.  I think this usage is exclusive to Indian English, but perhaps we should add a link?   Db<i style="color: #4fc;">f</i><i style="color: #6f6;">i</i><i style="color: #4e4;">r</i><i style="color: #4a4">s</i>  00:37, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose rename. In countries that have electricity, a "torch" is fire on a stick.  The battery operated pocket light is and remains a "flashlight". --Wtshymanski (talk) 06:07, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Only in the uneducated backwaters of the Americas. Here in the rest of the English speaking world both the 'fire on a stick' and the cylindrical battery powered compact light source are known as 'torches'. See here. However, the article should not be renamed because Wikipedia policy is to stick with the version of English originally used. 86.143.86.56 (talk) 17:05, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

 * This article is written in American English so it uses the American English term. This really can't be changed per our policies at WP:RETAIN. Rreagan007 (talk) 02:50, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Laser-Powered Flashlight is not spam
Wicked Lasers sell the Phosforce, a Laser-Powered Flashlight. This is not spam. Laser-Powered Flashlights are likely the future of flashlights. They use less electricity with great beam distance.--Wyn.junior (talk) 20:17, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * No, they don't.
 * I've never even looked at what a "Phosforce" claims to be. But I am a laser physicist. Nothing involving lasers gets anywhere near "efficient" or "uses less electricity". That's fundamental. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:39, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Laser-Powered Lights are brighter while using less electricity than LEDs and conventional lights. --Wyn.junior (talk) 19:29, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The Laser LED uses just is a laser be cleaner material as the normal LED, to be focused to a beam. A broader light spectrum can to be focused to a beam. Laser light can not appear as white color due withe is a spectrum of light. Even some audio noise is described as white noise for this reason. Do not bring this miss leading marketing bla bla to Wikipedia. -- Hans Haase (有问题吗) 23:36, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The Laser LED uses just is a laser ---  The Phosforce uses a laser to power the light, not an LED.--Wyn.junior (talk) 19:46, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

LED Flashlight history
Does anyone know when was the first LED flashlight was made, patented or sold? Hobbists made an LED lightboxes in the 70's (may be earlier) including a 5mm red or green LED, switch, 9v battery, small plastic box and a resistor to limit current. Not very bright but it worked like a flashlight to read a book or find your way to the bathroom at night. The flashlight museum has a LED model dating to 1980. I'm still wondering, how far back the history of a portable battery powered LED light goes? tygrus (talk) 01:36, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Article organization is out of date
I'll come back and try to fix this another day, but this article (in addition to other problems noted above) is organized around incandescent flashlights which are now (as of 2021) obsolete and of historical and collector interest only. LED flashlights should be the main focus of the article, with incandescent flashlights an interesting historical mention, rather than the other way around.  Uninvited Company 20:26, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I would leave it alone. Incandescent lamps were the origin of the species, The organization should be in terms of the development, not current sales volumes. --Wtshymanski (talk) 03:20, 12 November 2021 (UTC)

Bulbhead....
...makes a LED light so powerful that in "strobe mode" it can literally stun people if used as a self defense weapon. I don't recall the exact name, so can it be mentioned? Thanks.Nuclear Sergeant (talk) 07:29, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * What does "literally stun" literally mean? HiLo48 (talk) 11:51, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Thr brilliantly flashing strobe effect can cause someone to have a seisure and go down. The Ads I've seen says that this thing can stun even really strong people, and show someone like The Big Show being forced to the ground by the RAPIDLY flashing light.Nuclear Sergeant (talk) 12:52, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Context there implies that The Big Show is a person. Really? And ads are not regards as reliable sources for our purposes. HiLo48 (talk) 23:08, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * We've been reading about super-science stun rays for decades. But any time the 0.1% feel threatened, they send their troops out with truncheons,tear gas,  and rubber bullets, not super science strobe lights. Don't count on a flashing light to save your wallet if someone really wants to take it from you. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:39, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Flashlight


text:
Saint-Gaudens double eagle

The Saint-Gaudens double eagle is a twenty-dollar gold coin, or double eagle, produced by the United States Mint from 1907 to 1933. The coin is named after its designer, the sculptor Augustus Saint-Gaudens, who designed the obverse and reverse. It is considered by many to be the most beautiful of U.S. coins.

In 1904, President Theodore Roosevelt sought to beautify American coinage, and proposed Saint-Gaudens as an artist capable of the task. Although the sculptor had poor experiences with the Mint and its chief engraver, Charles E. Barber, Saint-Gaudens accepted Roosevelt's call. The work was subject to considerable delays, due to Saint-Gaudens's declining health and difficulties because of the high relief of his design. Saint-Gaudens died in 1907, after designing the eagle and double eagle, but before the designs were finalized for production.

After several versions of the design for the double eagle proved too difficult to strike, Barber modified Saint-Gaudens's design, lowering the relief so the coin could be struck with only one blow. When the coins were finally released, they proved controversial as they lacked the words "In God We Trust", and Congress intervened to require the motto's use. The coin was minted, primarily for use in international trade, until 1933. The 1933 double eagle is among the most valuable of U.S. coins, with the sole example currently known to be in private hands selling in 2002 for $7,590,020.

Background
The double eagle, or twenty-dollar gold piece, was first issued in 1850; its congressional authorization was a response to the increasing amount of gold available as the result of the California Gold Rush. The resulting Liberty Head double eagle, designed by Mint Engraver James Longacre, was struck for the remainder of the 19th century, though the design was modified several times. The double eagle, due to its very high face value, equivalent to several hundred dollars today, did not widely circulate, but was the coin most often used for large international transactions, in which settlement was to be in gold. In the West, where gold or silver coins were preferred to paper money—use of which was illegal in California in the aftermath of the Gold Rush—the coins saw some circulation.

Sculptor Augustus Saint-Gaudens's first association with the Mint was in 1891, when he served on a committee judging entries for the new silver coinage. The Mint had offered only a small prize to the winner, and all invited artists (including Saint-Gaudens himself) refused to submit entries. The competition was open to the public, and the judging committee (which consisted of Saint-Gaudens, Mint Engraver Charles E. Barber, and commercial engraver Henry Mitchell) found no entry suitable. This came as no surprise to Saint-Gaudens, who told Mint Director Edward O. Leech that there were only four men in the world capable of such work, of whom three were in France and Saint-Gaudens was the fourth. Barber, who had been Chief Engraver since 1879, felt that Saint-Gaudens overstated the case, and there was only one man capable of such coinage work—Barber himself. Leech responded to the failed competition by directing Barber to prepare new designs for the dime, quarter dollar, and half dollar, resulting in the Barber coinage, an issue which attracted considerable public dissatisfaction.

In 1892, Saint-Gaudens was asked to design the official medal of the World Columbian Exposition in Chicago; it would be presented to prizewinning exhibitors. The obverse of Saint-Gaudens's design, showing Columbus coming ashore, was noncontroversial; his reverse, which featured a torch-bearing naked youth carrying wreaths to crown the victors, was attacked by the censoring postal agent, Anthony Comstock, as obscene. The exposition directors hastily withdrew the reverse design and replaced it with one created by Barber which, according to numismatic historian Walter Breen, was "notable only for banality". A furious Saint-Gaudens swore to have nothing more to do with the Mint or its employees, and for the next decade refused all commissions which might involve him with that bureau.

Inception

On December 27, 1904, President Theodore Roosevelt, a personal friend of Saint-Gaudens, wrote to his Secretary of the Treasury, Leslie Mortier Shaw: "I think the state of our coinage is artistically of atrocious hideousness.  Would it be possible, without asking permission of Congress, to employ a man like Saint-Gaudens to give us a coinage which would have some beauty?" Roosevelt had Mint Director George E. Roberts write to Saint-Gaudens, who replied, "I am extremely interested in the matter of the new designs of the coinage ... it will I assure you give me great pleasure to assist in the procuring of good work." Roosevelt caused the Mint to engage Saint-Gaudens to redesign some of the coins which could be changed without the need for Congressional approval—the cent and the four gold coins. No U.S. coin had ever been designed by anyone other than a Mint employee.

In November 1905, Roosevelt wrote to Saint-Gaudens to enquire how the gold coinage was progressing. The President mentioned that he had been looking at gold coins of Ancient Greece, and that the most beautiful ones were in high relief. Roosevelt suggested that the new designs could be in high relief, with a high rim to protect them. Saint-Gaudens replied agreeing with Roosevelt, and proposing a design for the double eagle

some kind of a (possibly winged) figure of Liberty, striding forward as if on a mountaintop, holding aloft on one arm a shield bearing the stars and stripes with the word Liberty marked across the field; in the other hand perhaps a flaming torch, the drapery [of Liberty's dress] would be flowing in the breeze. My idea is to make it a living thing, and typical of progress.

On January 2, 1906, Saint-Gaudens wrote to Shaw, enquiring whether a high relief was practical on coins struck at the Mint. Shaw did not immediately reply, but instead met with Roosevelt, who wrote that there was no objection to have the coins, many of which would be stored in bank vaults and not circulated, "as artistic as the Greeks could desire". Roosevelt secured Shaw's support for the redesign, although as the President wrote to Saint-Gaudens, "of course he thinks I am a crack-brained lunatic on the subject". Shaw wrote to the sculptor on January 13, reproducing a copy of a letter from Roberts which warned, "the judgement of the authority of all countries is that modern coins must be of low relief", but as the President disagreed with Roberts's view, Saint-Gaudens could go ahead with a high-relief design. Numismatic historian Roger W. Burdette commented, "This is also one of those times when the compelling egos of artist and President might have paid greater attention to director Roberts' comments. By continuing with the design in a relief that was not coinable, Saint-Gaudens lost his best chance to explore the limits of artistry on circulation coinage."

Saint-Gaudens wrote to Roosevelt later in January, "Whatever I produce cannot be worse than the inanities now displayed on our coins." However, Saint-Gaudens foresaw resistance from Barber, who "has been in that institution since the foundation of the government, and will be found standing in its ruins". In May 1906, the sculptor wrote to Roosevelt that he had sent an assistant to Washington to obtain the technical details of the redesign, but "if you succeed in getting the best of the polite Mr. Barber or the others in charge, you will have done a greater work than putting through the Panama Canal.  Nevertheless, I will stick at it, even unto death."

In May 1906, Saint-Gaudens wrote to Secretary Shaw, asking if there was any objection to having the date in Roman numerals. Shaw replied, "While we are making coins for the people of the United States, I think we should confine ourselves to the English language. I have reminded our architects that I will dismiss the first one who puts a V on a public building where a U is intended." However, Roosevelt overruled Shaw, and the sculptor proceeded with the use of Roman numerals.

Saint-Gaudens had intended a flying eagle design for the cent, but developed it for the twenty-dollar piece after learning that by law, an eagle was not to appear on the cent. Saint-Gaudens's health worsened through 1906, as the cancer which would kill him forced him to have his assistant, Henry Hering, deal with many of the details of the work. Saint-Gaudens had the models for the coins made in Paris, rather than at the Mint, in order to bypass any obstruction by the Mint. It was not until December 1906 that Roosevelt was finally given coin-sized models of Saint-Gaudens's work by Hering, and Roosevelt wrote to the ailing sculptor, "I have instructed the Director of the Mint that these dies are to be reproduced just as quickly as possible and just as they are. It is simply splendid.  I suppose I shall be impeached for it by Congress, but I shall regard that as a very cheap payment!"

The obverse of Saint-Gaudens's final design shows a female figure of Liberty, who also represents victory. Saint-Gaudens based his design on the female figure he had designed in creating New York City's monument to General William Tecumseh Sherman, but the sculptor's ultimate inspiration was the Nike of Samothrace. The figure for the Sherman monument was modeled by Hettie Anderson, one of the artist's favorite subjects. On the coin, Liberty holds a torch in one hand, representing enlightenment; an olive branch in the other, a symbol of peace. She strides across a rocky outcrop; behind her are the United States Capitol and the rays of the Sun. The figure is surrounded by 46 stars, one for each of the states in 1907. The reverse is a side view of a flying eagle, seen slightly from below, with a rising Sun and its rays behind it, complementing the obverse design. The edge bears the lettering "E Pluribus Unum". Saint-Gaudens felt he could not place a third line of text on the reverse without unbalancing the composition, and the obverse lacked room for the motto, so it was placed on the edge.

From design to coin
Mint Engraver Barber had closely followed the progress of the proposed recoinage, and wrote to Acting Mint Director Robert Preston on November 26, 1906:

[Saint-Gaudens] talks so much about experiments, it may be to him, but to us it is no experiment, as we are just as certain that the relief of his eagle will never coin, as we are certain that the Sun will rise each morning, and the only object in all this trouble and waste of money is to convince those who will be convinced in no other way ... I think our friend [Saint-Gaudens] is playing a game ... but our willingness, nay more, our desire to let the work tell its own story has rather called his hand, and he is not prepared to show it, and therefore is sparing for wind, or time.

In response to Barber's letter, Preston wrote to Saint-Gaudens, "there are no presses anywhere, in mints or in use among silversmiths, which can bring up your proposed relief at a single stroke." When the models were brought to the Mint, Barber examined and rejected them. It was only after considerable discussion that he agreed to experiment. At that time, the Mint was intensely busy generating designs for new coinage for Cuba and the Philippines, and Barber was reluctant to waste time on what he considered an experimental piece which would never be coined for circulation. Experimental dies were made from the plaster model. Approximately 24 pieces were struck as patterns; even though the Mint used a medal press, set for maximum pressure, it still took up to nine strokes of the press to fully bring out the design. These patterns are today known as the "Ultra High Relief" or "Extra High Relief" pieces, and only about 20 are known—one sold in a 2005 auction for $2,990,000. On May 8, 1907, the President wrote Saint-Gaudens, "It has proved hitherto impossible to strike them by one blow, which is necessary under the conditions of making coins of the present day." On May 11, 1907, Saint-Gaudens replied, "I am grieved that the striking of the die did not bring better results. Evidently it is no trifling matter to make Greek art conform with modern numismatics."

A second set of dies was produced with the relief reduced somewhat, but still proved too high relief for practical coining, requiring three strokes of the press to fully bring out the design. Saint-Gaudens had produced the models for these dies under the misapprehension that the first pieces had been struck on a production press, rather than on the Mint's only medal press, and therefore only slight adjustment need be made. When Saint-Gaudens died on August 3, 1907, Hering was working on a third model. Uncertain where to find Hering, Roosevelt ordered the new Secretary of the Treasury, George Cortelyou, to have the Mint finalize the design and put the coin in circulation by September 1. Barber was recalled from his vacation in Ocean Grove, New Jersey, to comply with the President's order. Barber wrote Philadelphia Mint Superintendent John Landis on August 14 that what Roosevelt wanted was impossible; he had no dies nor any clear idea of how Saint-Gaudens had planned to reduce the relief. The Mint chief engraver alleged that he could take no action with respect to the double eagle. On September 28, Hering finally appeared at the Mint with a new set of models, which Barber again quickly rejected. Barber wrote to Preston, "Upon examination it was found that the relief of the models was so great that it would be a waste of time to make reductions for coinage, as it would be quite impossible to coin when the dies are made." Instead, Barber began work on his own low relief version of Saint-Gaudens's design.

In August 1907, Roosevelt nominated San Francisco Mint Superintendent Frank Leach as Director of the Mint; he took office on November 1, 1907. In his memoirs, Leach recalled his initial interview with Roosevelt on the question of the double eagles:

Before I had become familiar with my surroundings the President sent for me. In the interview that followed he told me what he wanted, and what the failures and his disappointments had been, and proceeded to advise me as to what I should do to accomplish the purpose determined upon in the way of the new coinage. In this talk he suggested some details of action of a drastic character for my guidance, which he was positive were necessary to be adopted before success could be had. All this was delivered in his usual vigorous way, emphasizing many points by hammering on the desk with his fist.

On November 18, the impatient Roosevelt directed that the second set of dies be used to strike coins, directly ordering the Mint to "begin the new issue, even if it takes you all day to strike one piece!" Over 12,000 of these "High Relief" pieces were struck and were released into circulation in 1907 and 1908. Barber wrote of the High Relief pieces to Landis, "Mr. Hart has put the mill into operation and I send you two pieces showing the result; these are not selected as all the coins now made are the same as these two, which gives me alarm as they are so well made that I fear the President may demand the continuance of this particular coin." Barber completed work on his version of the design, with a greatly lowered relief, and the new coin went into production on a large-scale basis. A total of 361,667 of the revised design were produced by the Mint in 1907; the "Low Relief" coins were released into circulation at the end of December 1907. Barber's modifications were denounced both by the sculptor's family and by Hering. Among other alterations, Barber changed the Roman numeral MCMVII for the date to the Arabic numeral "1907". In spite of the modifications, according to R.S. Yeoman in his A Guide Book of United States Coins, many consider the Saint-Gaudens double eagles the most beautiful of U.S. coins.

In his book discussing the redesigns of U.S. coins between 1905 and 1908, Burdette casts blame on all parties for the delays in the new coin:

Responsibility for most of the delays in producing the new coinage must fall on the Saint-Gaudens studio for failing to deliver models in a timely manner. The mint failed in its responsibility to clearly communicate to the President and artist its limitations and technical requirements for large-scale coinage. President Roosevelt, likewise, must bear responsibility for constantly confusing the project with conflicting or incomplete communication to the artist and Mint Bureau.

Despite the difficulties with the design, Roosevelt was very pleased with the new double eagle. Mint Director Leach recalled that when "I laid upon his desk a sample of beautifully executed double eagles of the Saint-Gaudens design, he was most enthusiastic in his expressions of pleasure and satisfaction. I certainly believed him when he declared he was 'delighted'. He warmly congratulated me on my success, and was most complimentary in his comments." In January 1908, the President wrote to his friend, William Sturgis Bigelow:

I am very much pleased that you like that coin. I shall have all kinds of trouble over it, but I do feel what you say is true: that is, that it is the best coin that has been struck for two thousand years, and that no matter what is its temporary fate, it will serve as a model for future coin makers, and that eventually the difficulties in connection with making such coins will be surmounted.

Production

Roosevelt had specifically requested Saint-Gaudens not to put "In God We Trust" on the new coin, feeling that the motto's presence on coins was a debasement of God's name, as the coins might be spent to further criminal activities. Saint-Gaudens was quite willing to omit the motto, as he felt the words detracted from the design elements. There was a public outcry about the omission of the motto, and what Breen describes as an "outraged and furious" Congress ordered the motto to appear. Barber duly modified the coin to include the motto, taking the opportunity to make several minor changes to the design, which, according to Breen, do not improve the coin. In 1912, two more stars were added to the obverse to reflect the admission of New Mexico and Arizona to the Union. The existing stars were not adjusted in position; the two new ones were placed on the outcropping at the lower right.

The only major variety of the series occurred in 1909, an overdate in which an 8 shows under the final nine in the date. This most likely happened when a 1908 die was struck by a 1909-dated hub, creating the overdate. Perhaps half of the 161,282 double eagles struck at Philadelphia that year display the overdate.

In 1916, minting of double eagles ceased, as bullion prices were rising because of World War I, which also caused an influx of American gold coins from Europe. Holders of gold coin, such as banks, refused to pay them out at par value, and they vanished from circulation. In the aftermath of the war, international demand for the coin was restored; many Europeans distrusted their local currencies and desired double eagles to hold. The coin was struck in large numbers once coinage was resumed in 1920, but it was now almost exclusively a coin of international trade, or was held by banks as backing for gold certificates. The coin itself rarely circulated in the United States. The onset of the Depression in 1929 did not halt the minting of double eagles, but the coins were for the most part held in Treasury vaults, and few were released. Many of the great rarities of the Saint-Gaudens series stem from its final years. Despite a mintage of almost 1.8 million pieces of the 1929 double eagle, it is estimated that fewer than 2,000 exist today, with all the rest melted by the government in the late 1930s.

End of the series; the 1933 double eagle
According to numismatic historian Roger Burdette, the first 1933 double eagles were struck on March 2, 1933. On March 15, 1933, 25,000 new double eagles were delivered to Mint Cashier Harry Powell, and by longstanding Mint custom, were available for paying out. On March 6, however, the newly inaugurated president, Franklin Roosevelt, had ordered the Treasury not to pay out any gold, and ordered that banks holding gold transmit it to their Federal Reserve bank. Numismatists and coin dealers were still allowed to possess and deal in gold coins; all others required a special license. The double eagle continued to be struck until May. On December 28, 1933, Acting Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau ordered Americans to turn in all gold coins and gold certificates, with limited exceptions, receiving paper money in payment. Millions of gold coins were melted down by the Treasury in the following years. Two 1933 double eagles were sent by the Mint to the Smithsonian Institution for the National Coin Collection, where they remain today.

Prominent coin dealer and numismatic writer Q. David Bowers suggests that despite the ban on paying out gold, examples of the 1933 double eagle could have been obtained legally from Mint Cashier Powell in an exchange for earlier double eagles. Bowers also notes that Secretary of the Treasury William Woodin was a numismatist who in addition to collecting coins, had written books on the subject. Dealer William Nagy later recalled visiting Secretary Woodin and being shown five 1933 double eagles, with the secretary stating that he had several more.

By the early 1940s, between eight and ten specimens were known; two of them were sold by Texas dealer B. Max Mehl. In 1944, a journalist enquired of the Mint regarding the 1933 double eagles. Mint officials could find no record of any issuance of the coins, and decided those in private hands must have been obtained illegally. Over the next few years, the Secret Service seized a number of specimens, which were subsequently melted. One piece, however, wound up in the hands of King Farouk of Egypt, who even obtained a U.S. export license for the coin. What became of the Farouk specimen after his death is unclear, but the coin resurfaced in the late 1990s. When brought to New York for sale to a prospective buyer, it was seized by U.S. authorities. After litigation, a compromise was reached to allow the coin to be auctioned, with the proceeds to be divided equally between the government and the private owners. In 2002 this coin sold at auction by Sotheby's for $7,590,020. The purchase price included $20 paid to the federal government to monetize a coin it contended had never been officially released. It sold again in 2021 for $18.9 million.

In 2004, 10 specimens of the 1933 double eagle were submitted to the Mint for authentication by the heirs of a Philadelphia jeweler who may have been involved in obtaining them from the Mint in 1933. The Mint authenticated them, and refused to give them back. The heirs brought suit against the government in 2006, and a federal judge ordered the government to file a forfeiture action regarding the coins. The government brought such a suit in 2009; it was tried in the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania beginning on July 7, 2011. On July 21, 2011, a jury decided that the coins had been properly seized by the Federal government. Judge Legrome D. Davis confirmed that jury verdict on August 29, 2012. On April 17, 2015, a panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit ruled that the government had failed to file its forfeiture action in a timely manner, and that the heirs were entitled to the coins. That ruling was vacated by the full court on July 28, 2015, and the case set for further argument. On August 1, 2016, the full Third Circuit ruled in favor of the government, upholding the jury verdict. The heirs, on November 4 of that year, asked the Supreme Court to review the case, which refused to hear it on April 21, 2017, ending the case.

Reuse of the design

The obverse has appeared on American gold bullion coinage issued since 1986. Saint-Gaudens's original design was reused, with two stars added next to the two which Barber had added in 1912, recognizing the admission of Alaska and Hawaii to the Union. Saint-Gaudens's reverse was not used, yielding its place to sculptor Miley Busiek's depiction of a family of eagles.

In 1907, the Mint had experimented by striking about two dozen pieces of the same weight as the double eagle, bearing Saint-Gaudens's design, but which had a smaller, thicker planchet. These "checker" pieces were destroyed (except two placed in the Mint's coin collection) when it was discovered that the consent of Congress was needed to change the diameter of any coin.

In 2009, the Mint struck a similar piece in .999 gold, using Saint-Gaudens's original ultra high relief design for both sides of the coin, though modified to a 50-star obverse. These pieces contain one ounce of gold, slightly more than the original double eagle.

Mintages and rarity
The mintmark appears above the date between the second and third numbers.

 * Blank (Philadelphia Mint in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
 * D (Denver Mint in Denver, Colorado)
 * S (San Francisco Mint in San Francisco, California)

Note: The 2009 Ultra High Relief was minted in the West Point Mint, but has no mint mark.

The mintages are in many cases not a true indication of relative rarity. Coins remaining in bank vaults in the United States were melted after 1933; coins in bank vaults overseas were not. Millions of double eagles, of both the Liberty Head and Saint-Gaudens designs, were repatriated for numismatic and investment purposes once it was legal to do so. By way of example, the 1924 Saint-Gaudens double eagle was once thought to be rare although 4,323,500 were struck; when the Mint offered a list of coins available at face value plus postage in 1932, the 1924 was not on that list. Large quantities of 1924 double eagles were found in European bank vaults, and today the 1924 is one of the most common of the series. On the other hand, the 1925-S had 3,776,500 struck, but few were released or exported, remaining in Treasury and bank vaults—but available from the Treasury at face value in 1932. Fewer than a thousand are known to have survived; one, in almost-perfect condition (graded MS-67) sold in 2005 for $287,500.

title: Saint-Gaudens double eagle