text:
Talk:Pearls Before Swine (comics)

Removal
I have removed the recurring characters section as at least part of it seems to come directly from. I don't know about the rest, and it may be that this can be restored. I don't know enough about the strip to rewrite the offending portions. Basil Fawlty 14:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

The characters should include when they first appeared in the strip. (I know rat and pig started it, goat and sheep not much later, but when did wee bear, guard duck and fraternity of crocs joins. Most specifiaclly JoJo. I when thw first crocodile apperaerd but not the frat house.

 * Article reverted to pre-copyvio version pre instructions on WP:CP--Duk 02:26, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Major cutting
I removed the long list of minor characters. I noticed that this was being updated almost daily, every time someone (something?) new appeared in the strip. The list had the potential to get really massive. It's one thing to mention a few sentences about minor characters who make multiple appearances, but I don't see a reason to list every single one-off appearance. The article isn't intended to summarize the entire fictional world of Pearls Before Swine. Joyous | Talk 19:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Why? The fact that it is updated so often means that a lot of people are invested in it. Not everything that happens is included, but what's wrong with listing each of the characters? It's still a relatively young strip and today's minor characters become tomorrow's recurring characters (e.g. Pig's sister - she has a back story that's relevant to the strip or the seals and whale who recur regularly and are an interesting counterpoint to Zebra and the Crocodiles.) But more to the point - So it's a long entry? Who does that hurt? We're not talking about Star Wars or Star Trek length issues here. aww 15:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The point is that it was becoming less like an encyclopedia entry, and more like something that you would see on a fan website. An article shouldn't be a strip-by-strip summary in near-real-time. It wouldn't take long before the article becomes bloated with trivia, and essentially a list of lists. (list of minor characters, list of characters from other strips who have appeared here, list of other strips that have made reference to Pearls Before Swine, list of objects from other strips that have been left behind...). Eventually, it would have to be trimmed down, as was done painfully at Homer Simpson. Joyous | Talk 21:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, for the record, I think you went too far. The "minor characters" were important, and more of a reference to cross-comic interaction was actually useful and relevant (there is a small cadre of these young/new comic strip authors that work off each other in contrast with and poking at the old style and subject matter of Keane, Hart, etc.). But I'm not going to be the one to battle over it. aww 23:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with aww, I was actually searching for information on the April fool's joke this year and could only find it in Google's cache. I think the cut was far too deep. Sure, we can maybe get rid of the "guest stars" like Cathy, but this is an encyclopedia unrestricted by space concerns, so why not be encyclopedic? I think the previous list of major and minor (appearing more than once) characters is entirely appropriate and should be restored. --Tedzzzz 22:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I didn't see the article before ir got cut, but there are several recurring charectars that arn't mentioned, the only one I can think of now is Rat's boss. Rat's boss has appeared much more than one strip, and there is nothing that suggests he will stop appearing, so I think charectars like that should stay in.

Rat's boss will disappear eventually. Rat has gotten so many jobs and has had so many bosses, that it would make this article encreadibly and unnessicarally long if we listed them all.

I'm concerned about article quality. (in general, and this article specifically) I fear that a lot of articles degrade over time into cruft; other articles so effusively praise the topic that they simply can't be neutral. I'm not sure what the ideal article on a comic strip (even a great one like Pearls) should look like, but I fear that some articles start to become too long if we add too many minor details. MKoltnow 20:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Something definitely ought to be done about the "minor characters" section. Recently "Timmy the Owl" was added, a character that appeared in a single strip as a one off joke. Many characters mentioned there were in the comic for no more than a single strip or series. Admittedly, there is about a years worth of PBS strips I've never read, but I'm willing to bet that Angry Bob has appeared, and is more important a character, than Staci Pastis. Please consider moving or deleting several of the characters in these sections. (I'm writing all this in the discussion because everything I change always seems to get reverted back. At least I'm learning...)    121.45.248.70

Disney acquiring PBS
That info comes from this "press release"

Note the language at the bottom of the page: "This site is not endorsed, approved, reviewed, or acknowledged by the Walt Disney Corporation. All information on this site is, to the best of our knowledge, false, and any resemblance to real insider information is purely coincidental. If any significant true information slips through, we apologize for that."

Oops...I didn't see that. --Wack'd About Wiki 15:47, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Why do you say the Walt Disney Corporation? There's no such thing as Walt Disney Corporation, just the Walt Disney Company. [User: Nate Speed]

Rat (Pearls Before Swine)
Did anybody notice the Rat page I wrote? --Wack'd About Wiki 19:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, and I actually added most of Rat's former jobs on that page to fill it out more.

Characters
I split the "minor characters" section between "recurring" and "minor." Here's my reasoning:
 * The recurring characters are the characters who appear more frequently, and seem to have had a larger affect on the strip. Farina and the Sea Anenomes have popped up frequently over the few years PBS has been around, and the Guard Duck has appeared many times since his first appearence.
 * The minor characters have appeared frequently enough to play a small role in the strip, but appear not as frequently as the recurring characters or only appeared for a limited time in a large series of strips. Lesser characters who do not fit these qualifications; in my opinion, do not warrent mention.

If you don't like my way, fine, but at least read this to see my reasoning. --Wack'd About Wiki

 * In the case of another character -- I re-added "Danny Donkey", because the character does appear occasionally and isn't a one-off character. (The drunken Danny Donkey doll might never appear again, but the illustrated one (drawn by Rat) has appeared since and probably will again.) Amnewsboy 16:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

 * In another case of characters, I'm glad to see this page is spurring alot of character pages. --Wack'd About Wiki 11:10, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

--- BP: Interesting fact about the Crocodiles, discovered by watching a PBS program on crocodiles in which I immediately recognized Pastis' distinctive narrow-snouted critters. They are not "your standard crocodile", but are gharials.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearls_Before_Swine_(comic_strip)

“…they [the crocodiles] are usually involved in various attempts to kill and eat Zebra, all of which fail because of their stupidity.”

BP: Or perhaps they fail because they are gharials, and they are too dumb to realize it!

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gharial :

“The gharial … (Gavialis gangeticus), sometimes called the Indian gavial or gavial, is one of two surviving members of the family Gavialidae, a long-established group of crocodile-like reptiles with long, narrow jaws.”

Also see Diet in same article (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gharial#Diet) : “Young gharials eat insects, larvae, and small frogs. Mature adults feed almost solely on fish, although some individuals have been known to scavenge dead animals.” Bpolt (talk) 20:13, 5 October 2009 (UTC)bpolt

September 26 Substitution
Do we want to mention this within the article because of the Jimella Tunstall case? It was still in this morning's Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel so it was a paper-to-paper basis that the strip was subbed with the 2004 strip. Nate 22:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Pastis often sends in a past strip to papers as an alternate for today's strip when he feels papers might not want to run the one that was supposed to be for that day. This is nothing new, but if you want to mention that he does this, it could fit in the article one way or another. --Wack'd About Wiki 10:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

The Guard Duck?
It's November and he's still in it a fair amount. Is he at the level of the Killer Whale yet?--T. Anthony 15:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

He's in the "recurring characters" section. He's higher level than the Killer Whale, who (may I point out) is offically deceased. I sort of find that odd, though - no major character who dies never stays that way for long. --Wack'd About Wiki 21:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I think, at this point, Jason has become a main character. See his section for reasoning. --Wack'd About Wiki 17:08, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Since his online character description only calls him "Duck," as well as the fact that he's NEVER been called Jason, the page has been changed to fix that error.

He was called Jason in one of the first strips he was in...wasn't he? If not, why does everyone call him Jason? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.108.130 (talk) 20:05, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Crocodile speech style
I'm not sure the Zebras speek in a phonetic style, as the article says. They seem to speak some sort of Caribbean pidgin. Their speech is also uniquely lowercase, like the bully in Calvin and Hobbes. I'd like to rewrite the description and will happily do so barring objections. MKoltnow 08:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

What the heck? The Crocidiles speak in that type of vioce, not the Zebra!

 * Heh. I forgot one of the commandmants--thou shalt not edit when sleepy. :-) Still stick by my statement that the ZZE members' speech is not phonetic. MKoltnow 18:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Additions
Has the incident about the Turkish president achieved enough notoriety to add a mention to it somewhere in the page? While I don't think it warrants a link to that quack's YouTube video (which isn't a reputable source anyway), if mainstream publications are picking up on it, it seems like it should be integrated into the controversies section. Anyone else with thoughts on this? SGreenwell 11:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Crocodile Speech
Isn't it just the male crocs who speek in the dumbed down, phonetic style? The female crocodiles always seem to be perfectly articulate, from what I can tell.

The adult males, yes. The croc son who we've seen several times in 2007 seems to also speak articulate English. MissFiat (talk) 16:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Characters
Something seriously has to be done about the recurring/minor characters sections. Honestly, barely any of them should be there. Many were just one-strip gags, and some characters where there only for a brief storyline. A great example, Wilhelm the Aquatic Lamb. Wilhelm was in a single strip and I'm willing to bet he won't reappear. A single random joke. Connie the Judgemental Cow, pretty much a prop for jokes for about four days. Even Staci Pastis has barely been there. I reckon the recurring and minor characters section can be merged and include only the following characters:

 * Stephan Pastis
 * Farina
 * Pigita
 * Alphonse, the Needy Porcupine
 * Angry Bob
 * Danny Donkey
 * Chuckie, the Non-Anthropomorphic Sheep
 * Leonard
 * The Lions
 * Pepito
 * Toby the Agoraphobic Turtle
 * Wee Bear

All other characters are insanely unimportant to the point where they're not even "Pearls Before Swine characters". The section's starting to look like a fan site made by an die-hard Pearls fan instead of an encyclopaedia.

 * Agreed check out the proposal to merge the characters page to the main page. Snowfreak91287 (talk) 00:46, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Removed External Link
I removed an external link link from the article. The one linking to "Pearlswine: LiveJournal Daily Feed of Pearls Before Swine".

Although it does service the reader, the publication of strips there is probably unauthorized. It therefore is restricted without without exception as per External links. - Apartmento (talk) 08:28, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Crocodiles
It seems as though the crocs are appearing more and more in the recent comics. It also seems that Rat is making less isolation devices for himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.92.103.248 (talk) 21:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Crocodile Accent
"When spoken aloud this strongly resembles a thick Hispanic accent."

I think I read in comic collection that Pastis didn't intend for the crocodiles' speech to resemble any particular accent. I'm not going to go track that citation down, but I don't think the above quote has any place in the article. Ueli-PLS (talk) 08:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Removed. --Lambiam 10:11, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Merge List of Pearls Before Swine characters to here
The article List of Pearls Before Swine characters largely duplicates content found here, and for most characters this article (Pearls Before Swine) is actually the more comprehensive and informative one. The length of the article is not a prohibitive factor. --Lambiam 10:06, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree. The main article is much more detailed. In addition, the "Main Articles" for several of the major characters here simply redirect back to the same section that they're linked from (for example, the main article for Pig simply redirects to the section of this article about Pig). Oldiesmann (talk) 17:59, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Another agree. -- The Red Pen of Doom  00:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree. There's no need in two different articles. The article itself is definitely NOT that long. WinKi-tyan (talk) 13:38, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Definately not. The "List of Characters" is there for a reason! Intothewoods29 (talk) 19:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Another disagree. If the main article is more detailed, then move "those" descriptions to the character page.  Pearls Before Swine has a LOT of characters and detailing them on the main article will detract from the focus - which is to inform about the strip rather than get bogged down on the character - on the main page.  I do not agree that each character should be given its own page (like, for instance, many characters have for Peanuts, or other comics and/or television shows) but a separate character page is definitely called for.  I would say such a page should be divided into major and minor and transient characters.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.8.163.37 (talk) 02:53, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I say we should merge them. There's already a section of the "Pearls Before Swine" article dedicated to "List of Characters," so what's the point of having an extra article? We could even include a list of minor characters as a subset of the main category. There's no point in making people scroll between two different articles. If either were long enough that we would have trouble loading it into a web browser, that would be another story, but as of right now, I say merge the two articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.20.210.120 (talk) 19:18, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

 * The way I see it is there are two choices, merge everything onto the main page or make a brief description of the characters on the main page and merge the two current texts as well as add more characters to the characters page. Personally I would go with keeping it and giving them both a thorough overhaul. Snowfreak91287 (talk) 00:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Oppose. It's simple, there are quite a bunch of Pearls Before Swine characters, and they all need a proper description. That is a little too much to fit on the Pearls Before Swine page, so therefore there should simply be another article. Coby (talk) 03:25, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Disagree. It would make the article too long. MadManAmeica (talk) 19:42, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pearls Before Swine excerpt.png
Image:Pearls Before Swine excerpt.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 15:01, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Pearlsmain.jpg
Image:Pearlsmain.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 15:07, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Comic References
I am going through and editing this article, as the dates of appearances are wrong and several facts have been incorrectly stated. I am including proof that can be found in the comic it self. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Syntheticmoon (talk • contribs) 20:48, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Unless...
Unless anyone objects, I'm going to remove the detailed list of characters, which is totally unreferenced, and replace it with a summary, like "Pastis' characters include Rat, Pig... etc." and add a sentence that links to the List of PBS characters. This is an article about the comic strip Pearls before Swine, and it's irrelevant to know that Rat writes the Dickie the Cockroach strip or other trivia like that. Instead, the article should describe the history, reception, etc. of the actual strip. I thought I'd ask, however, before I did it, because I can see a lot of work went in to the summaries. Intothewoods29 (talk) 17:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Material in list articles needs to be sourced as well. I agree that the content should not be duplicated in two articles, but I am unconvinced that there is enough reliably sourced material to warrant the second article at all. -- The Red Pen of Doom  20:06, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I see no reason why Pearls Before Swine cannot be structured in the same way as many other wiki articles, even those covering specific comic strips. For example:

 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanuts
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Peanuts_characters
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppermint_Patty

 * What's good for many is just as good for one. What we currently have on wiki regarding pearls before swine may be poorly done but that's not the fault of the structure and arrangement.  What we need are well written articles, not somebody trigger happy on the delete key.
 * Having comprehensive spin off/daughter articles is fine, if the content of the daughter articles is supported with material that meets our article guidelines and policies WP:V and WP:OR for primary examples. Currently even the content of the main article does not meet those criteria. -- The Red Pen of Doom  06:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Fansite
There is way too much detail on the individual characters. Just a brief summary is fine. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 18:59, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I also removed the "black comedy" category as that's original research. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 00:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Do we need everything?
I've noticed a lot of unnecessary facts are written in the articles (especially the Crocs). Do we really need to write down everything every single character did in the past nine years? I think the croc article could just slim down to the most appearing crocs i.e. Bob. The only other thing we really need about them is their failed attempts at killing Zebra. Just my one-fifth of a dime. Fishhead (talk) 02:00, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Honestly, we don't need to write out every single event that ever happened in the strip. Fishhead (talk) 21:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Little problem
"[Larry and his family] still live in the Zeeba Zeeba Eeta frat house; it is possible he was too dumb to leave."

It could just be that the new Pearls book is new, but in the book, Pastis says that Zebra has three neighbors: The Lions, the Zeeba Zeeba Eeta frat house, and Larry's house. Apparently, Larry's house his behind Zebra's house, with the other two houses being to the left and right of Zebra's house. --WeezleBeezle (talk) 18:19, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Good note. Please provide citation and add it. MJ56003 (talk) 02:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I really don't know how to provide citation. Wanna help with that? --WeezleBeezle (talk) 20:31, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, I haven't done it before. I'd think that putting your paragraph into the info on Zebra or the frat house, kind of like "According to this_book_name, Zebra has three neighbors....." and then put something in references like Pearls Before Swine: BLTs Taste So Darn GoodMarch 2, 2003ISBN 0-7407-3437-7  which I cut/pasted from the books section MJ56003 (talk) 05:58, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:CITE. A commentary by Pastis is OK, but what we really need are third party sources. And we should not be making analysis based on the content of the strips. -- The Red Pen of Doom  06:06, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Red Pen of Doom, everything you said made little sense. If Pastis said it, then it has to be true.  That's just how it works, right?  After all, Pastis made the strip.  He controls all the rules.  --WeezleBeezle (talk) 20:21, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well not quite - if Pastis said it, we can say that Pastis said it. We dont claim to have the truth, we print what we can verify in reliable sources. -- The Red Pen of Doom  01:20, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Weezle, you know the book name. You can add text and reference like I suggested, then someone can correct your wordage if you do it wrong. I don't see where my suggestion violates cite rules.  MJ56003 (talk) 03:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Snuffels
I think Snuffels the cat has become a main character by now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.72.187.59 (talk) 09:00, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Not quite though. From what I remember, he's still secondary.Abce2 (talk) 00:47, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

It's spelled "Snuffles", by the way. I don't see him as often as, say, Guard Duck.67.180.128.232 (talk) 01:20, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Bippy listed at Redirects for discussion
Bippy currently redirects here. I've nominated it for deletion; please see the discussion at Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2010_July_21. Powers T 22:59, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Intro paragraph numbering inconsistancy
the intro paragraph currently says:

[Pearls Before Swine] chronicles the daily lives of four anthropomorphic animals, Pig, Rat, Zebra, Goat and the crocs.

I would like to change it to make the numbering consistent, but I couldn't come up with wording that is accurate and also preserves the current meaning of the sentence as I read it. The best rewrite that I have come up with:

It chronicles the daily lives of a few anthropomorphic animals, Pig, Rat, Zebra, Goat, and the crocs.

Is not really that good in my opinion. I would only consider it marginally better than the existing text. Is there someone with a little more copyediting experience here that could help out?

TheTrueMikeBrown (talk) 20:04, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

"You stupid fairy!" section
This isn't sourced at all, looks dubious (partly because of its writing style), and I can't find anything to support its veracity. Some help here, folks? - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 21:45, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

It was directly quoting text under a treasury, I'm going to change it to make it more encyclopedic. CheezRulez (talk) 04:09, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

December 2003
In December he also had the controversial strips about the slaughterhouse and the criticizing the comics (Lions tigers and crocs, oh my!). Do those deserve mention? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.67.206.248 (talk) 00:21, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

 * They are worth mentioning in the Wikipedia article if there was a lot of media (newspaper, presumably) coverage of the controversy (see here for which sources actually can be used). Otherwise, no. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 03:22, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Fansite II
Editors have complained since 2008 that this page is nothing more than trivia-filled fansite. It's nowhere near WIkipedia standards, and much of this OR and minutiae needs to be excised in order for it to reach standard. Before a cleanup begins, please engage in discussion here now. --Tenebrae (talk) 02:39, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Pearls Before Swine (comics). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121010211712/http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2007/5/31&name=Pearls_Before_Swine to http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2007/5/31&name=Pearls_Before_Swine

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"More commonly known as Pearls"
As one editor remarked, this is uncited, unnecessary, info. It is common to refer to works by shortening the name to the first word.

Editors keep adding it back. Anyone have a reason to keep this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by XSevn (talk • contribs) 22:38, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Planned cleanup
Hi all, I'm planning to do some cleanup work within the next few days to substantially streamline the Characters section. My goals are to remove trivial details that only appear in one strip or storyline, to be more selective with characters listed under the "Minor Characters" section, and to tighten up the prose where necessary. I noticed that, according to the page history, the Characters section is still accumulating detail on a semi-regular basis, so I wanted to give people some advance notice of my plans in case there are any concerns. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:52, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pearls Before Swine (comics)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Thivierge-Gaulin

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Speedy delete. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 19:09, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

David Thivierge-Gaulin
Vanity/hoax. smoddy 14:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete Little or no content. No such thing as a samalatron.  Obvious vanity.
 * Delete, not notable. No google hits for samalatron. Thue | talk 15:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete As above. KeithD 15:31, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
2003 Rocori High School shooting

The Rocori High School shooting was a school shooting that occurred at Rocori High School on September 24, 2003 in Cold Spring, Minnesota, United States. The shooter was identified as 15 year-old freshman John Jason McLaughlin, who murdered 14-year-old freshman Seth Bartell and 17-year-old senior Aaron Rollins. Prior to the shooting, McLaughlin was described as "quiet and withdrawn".

Shooting
McLaughlin (born July 19, 1988) arrived at school with a loaded Colt .22-caliber handgun with the intention of killing Bartell, whom McLaughlin claimed bullied him over his acne. McLaughlin met Bartell and Rollins as they were exiting the school locker room. He shot at Bartell, hitting him in the chest. McLaughlin fired a second shot at Bartell, which missed and hit Rollins in the neck, killing him instantly. Bartell attempted to flee the scene, but he was followed by McLaughlin, who fired another shot at Bartell, hitting him in the forehead. Gym coach Mark Johnson then confronted McLaughlin, who initially brandished the gun at Johnson, but then emptied the bullets from the gun and dropped it. Johnson secured the gun and took McLaughlin to the school office.

Bartell was taken to the St. Cloud Hospital, where he was treated for severe head and brain trauma. Bartell died 16 days later, on October 11, 2003.

Legal proceedings
The trial began on July 5, 2005. The defense argued that McLaughlin did not plan to kill anyone and that the teen had only intended to scare Bartell. The prosecution argued that the deaths were premeditated, as McLaughlin had stated to police that he had planned the shooting "several days in advance". Six mental health experts were brought in to testify in court. Three of the experts diagnosed McLaughlin with schizophrenia while the other three diagnosed him with major depression in remission and an "emerging personality disorder".

McLaughlin was found guilty of first and second-degree murder.

In August 2005, he was sentenced with two consecutive prison sentences. McLaughlin was sentenced to life in prison for first-degree murder and 12 years in prison for second-degree murder. Prior to the sentences, McLaughlin's attorneys attempted to have him declared insane at the time of the shootings, which would have resulted with McLaughlin serving his sentence at a mental hospital rather than a correctional facility. The Judge ruled that McLaughlin was sane at the time of the killings based on McLaughlin's writings and videotaped confession, where he detailed his planning of the crime. McLaughlin was also ordered to pay restitution in the amount of $15,000 to the Minnesota Crime Victims Reparations Board.

Jason McLaughlin is currently 34 years-old and was incarcerated at Minnesota Correctional Facility – Stillwater, and is currently at Minnesota Correctional Facility – Oak Park Heights. He will not be eligible for parole until 2038, when he will be 50 years-old.

Wrongful death lawsuit
In September 2006 the families of victims Aaron Rollins and Seth Bartell filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the McLaughlins, the Rocori school district, and former Rocori High School Principal Doug Standke. The families alleged that the school district had prior knowledge of the shootings about a week before their occurrence and that they could have prevented its occurrence. The lawsuit was initially dismissed, but later settled out of court for $200,000.

title: 2003 Rocori High School shooting


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cassandra Trelawney

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was merge, but there is a difficulty with the target. THe suggested target in the debate is List of characters in the Harry Potter books, but that article does not accomodate descriptions of characters, and merging the article there would more or less amount to creating only a redirect (this character is already mentioned there). Therefore I will be merging this to Sybill Trelawney instead, and hope that nobody will notice... Sjakkalle (Check!)  08:06, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Cassandra Trelawney
Seems to be highly obscure, I don't remember this character in the books at all. Corection: Book 5, Ch. 15 JGorton 14:03, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge into List of characters in the Harry Potter books. A и D я 01D  TALK  EMAIL  15:06, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge per Android79 and WP:FICT. Dcarrano 14:22, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Isn't there a real mythilogical figure called Cassandra? I think Rowling is reffering to her, so just change this article to something like "Cassandra Trelawny is a fictional character in Harry Potter who is based on the mythilogical figure Cassandra." But yeah, It probably needs to be in List of characters in the Harry Potter books so I vote merge. Supersaiyanplough|(talk) 03:06, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge per above. Sasquatch′↔T↔C 19:50, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge as above. The character is in the books, but is no longer alive and only referred to in passing. Superm401 | Talk 20:51, July 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
A1309 road

The A1309 is a short road (6.5 miles) which links the two ends of the A10 to north and south of Cambridge city centre in Cambridgeshire, England. It was numbered as part of the A10 prior to the construction of the Cambridge Western Bypass (now M11) and the Northern Bypass (originally A45, now A14).

Its northern end is at the Milton Interchange with the A14 and A10. From here, it passes the Cambridge Science Park, the Cambridge Business Park, and the Cowley Road Park & Ride site, as Milton Road on its way to the Mitchams Corner gyratory complex just to the north of the city centre.

It is unmarked through the city centre, but reappears to the south on the route of the A1134 ring road named Trumpington Road which then becomes Trumpington High Street. In Trumpington, it has a junction with the A1301 and then passes the Trumpington Park & Ride site before its southern end at junction 11 of the M11 motorway and the A10.

title: A1309 road


text: User talk:84.189.202.2

title: User talk:84.189.202.2


text:
Talk:Hong Kong Central Library/Archive: category war

Vote: National library status of HKCL
(If possible, please read the following discussion and read national library before casting your vote)

This vote commences from 20 July to 27 July for 1 week.

Please cast your vote into the following boxes with a signature (#~)

By its very nature, this vote is flawed. A national library is not "considered" as one via wishy-washy means. In all cases, it is officially accorded that status, be it by the national government, or by the government of the controlling state on a sub-national entity or dependency. I therefore abstain from voting.--Huaiwei 07:44, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I've changed the title of the poll. Hope you'll cast a vote, no matter for or against. Deryck C. 07:48, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

National library?
User:Huaiwei has removed this article from category:national libraries. The national library article on Wikipedia says " A national library a library specifically established by the government of a nation to serve as the pre-eminent repository of information for that country ", " Some states which are not independent, but who wish to preserve their particular culture, have established a national library, .. ", and " National libraries are usually notable for their size, compared to that of other libraries in the same country ". By these definitions the Hong Kong Central Library is a national library, although it doesn't state itself as such, and Hong Kong is not a sovereign State. — Instantnood 14:24, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, and if you did not notice, the "National Libraries" of non-independent states as mentioned in that line actually refers to institutions which actually exist with the name "National Library" in their names, such as the ones in Quebec, Catalonia, Faroe Islands, and in the UK. We dont see that happening in this particular institution in any sense. If you are going to twist definitions just to make them fit into your agenda, then I suppose even university libraries can qualify since many of them do attempt to "preserve their particular culture" as well?--Huaiwei 14:31, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * In that case an airport without the word "international" in its name isn't an international airport, and an institution without the word "university" in its name isn't a university. :-D — Instantnood 15:55, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * As a matter of fact, that is true most of the time. :D The thing is it is not just the name I am concerned about. I already said that this entire article, as well as the official site, does not call nor describe this institution as a "national library", not just in the title, but also in any part of the text. Even an airport without the word "international" in its name will be described as one somewhere, and ditto to a university. How about this one? Can we have more constructive and intelligent comments from you, yeah?--Huaiwei 16:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The organization doesn't have to classify itself as such and such in order to allow others classifying it as such and such. For example, the Gay Singers doesn't have to tell on their brochures that their major aim is to provide fun, but they are. Another example is, Adolf Hitler is certainly a bad person, although he never said HIMSELF that "I am bad". The same applies to HKCL. Although HKCL doesn't DECLARE itself as a "national library", HKCL qualifies all criteria for being classified as one. Therefore we can classify it as a national library. Deryck C. 16:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Another question about the problem of a "sovereign state": Not only central libraries of an autonomous country can be "national" as exemplified by National Library of Wales. Wales is a constituent region of Great Britain, just like Hong Kong is a constituent region of People's Republic of China. If that one in Wales can be "national", HKCL, of course, can also. Deryck C. 16:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * But I have already said. Certain issues do not need self-declarations, because the condition needed can be more easily quantified. An airport is international if it offers customs clearance for flights out of the country. A university is one if the govenment or any other similar authority declares it as such formally. But the other two examples you quote above directly addresses the problem of grey areas when fixed criteria do not really exist. Not everyone considers Gay Singers as neccesarily fun, nor do everyone consider Hitler bad. He does have his fan base, I am afraid. You hereby declare that "HKCL qualifies all criteria for being classified as" a national library, but again I ask. Which criteria? Who's criteria? The Beijing government's? The HK govenment's? (did they formally declare the HKCL as a nationa library?) Or the HK people?--Huaiwei 16:49, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * As you might already have noticed, List of national libraries lists several national libraries in non-sovereign states. Look through each and everyone of them, and tell me why they deserve to appear in that list. Meanwhile, please tell us why other libraries in non-sovereign states are not listed. I believe the answers speaks for itself.--Huaiwei 16:51, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Evidence on the list of national libraries
Replying Huaiwei:

Only 2 rules were found among libraries on the list:

a. The library is the head library of the region.

b. The library satisfies one of the 2 criteria below:

 * 1. The region where the library heads is a sovereign state.

 * 2. The region is an autonomous area inside a country.

It's obvious that HKCL satisfies a and b2. If you've anymore disagreements please point out the other rules that a library needs to satisfy in order to be declared as a national library. Deryck C. 17:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I find that decisively inadequate. Here is a list garnered from those examples, as well as from actual national libraries of soverign states (mostly from Singapore, hehe, since I am more familiar with it). Of coz I felt out criteria which would have easily applied to just about any library, including that in your local kindergarden.

 * It is an institution entrusted with the role of preserving national heritage.
 * It is an institution which compiles and maintain a national union catalogue and/or a national bibliography.
 * It is an institution which provides a repository for library materials published in that country. This usually also means the existance of Legal deposit rules, or its equivalent.
 * For entities in non-soverign states, be formally declared and accepted as a national library by the top-level government, either in name or in governmental documents.

 * I may have left out one or two criteria, but just try reading all those examples. Each and everyone of them (excluding the ones which are not in English) unabashedly declares themselves as "national" institutions, beyond simply having it in name. Each and every one of them have strongly-worded text insisting that they are the protectors of local heritage. I read through the entire website of the HKCL, and nowhere do I find anything close to this. Even its acquisition policy page looks more like that of a local school library trying to promote reading amongst its students then one attempting to make a mark on the national arena!--Huaiwei 17:28, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you sure the national libraries of Greenland, the Faroe Islands and Catalonia are declared, considered, recognised or accepted by the top-level governments (i.e. Denmark and Spain) as national libraries? — Instantnood 17:40, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Look at the website of Faroe Island's nationa library. If they are not recognised, they wont have existed. I already said I was refering to English-language sources, so I cant comment on Catalonia. Meanwhile, does Greenland have a natonal library? It wasent listed in that article.--Huaiwei 18:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * According to my experiences during my frequent visits to the HKCL, it really complies with the first 3 rules provided by Huaiwei. However I'm quite puzzled by the 4th rule: As mentioned by Instantnood, none of the libraries of Greenland, Faroe Islands and Catalonia came with the name "national" (or an equivalent in that language) nor a sentence showing that the library is a "national library" on those official websites. Deryck C. 17:48, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * You cant just say you "experienced" the first three. Do show us the evidence in writing, as I can easily show you for, say, the library in Singapore. The National Library Board Act specifies that the NLB is entrusted with all of the above. I dont see this in any article related on HKCL in their website, unless you can show this from any other source, particularly from a legislative/legal goverment document. Do the HKCL even have the rights for Legal deposit? If yes, please tell us. As for the naming thing, again I hadent really seen the Greenlandish institution, and no, I cant read Catalan either. However, go the English version of the Faroe Islands entity, and tell me what is the name of that institution in English is.--Huaiwei 18:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Well if Huaiwei carries on taking the narrowest sense of the words "national" and "country" no heritage of Hong Kong, no catalogue, no bibliography would be "national". I did not comment on whether the official title of the national libraries of Greenland, the Faroe Islands and Catalonia posess the word "national" or equivalent in that language, but rather, I questioned on whether it is considered, recognised, accepted or declared by the "top-level governments" as national libraries. — Instantnood 18:06, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * I am not too sure what you are getting at, but if these entities can have the word "National Library" in their names, then it has to be approved by the top-level government obviously. You mean no one stops you if you start calling your own bookshelf the "National library of Instantnood" and lists it alongside the "National library of China"?--Huaiwei 18:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I am not sure if it is part of the home rule of the Faroe Islands and Greenland, but I supposed library is part of their internal affairs, not directed by the ("top-level") government at Copenhagen. The word "land" in their local names roughly correspond to "state" or "country" in English, not exactly "national". The local name of the Catalonia one seems to have no indication of the meaning of "national". — Instantnood 18:32, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * I would expect libaries to be in the preview of "homerule" governments too, but this dosent mean they can call it anything they want. The Faroe Islands, I must say, appear to enjoy greater autonomy then HK. They get to call their flag a national flag with the blessings of Denmark, for example. I dont remember the Chinese ever allowing that in the two SARs. And what does the "land" gotta do with this issue, btw? As for Catalonia, if you acquire the ability to read Catalan, and realise that entry is actually not befiting of a national library, then please delete it.--Huaiwei 18:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Replying Huaiwei: The evidence is, Catalonia has already shown an exception that libraries doesn't have to self-proclaim as a "national library" in it's own name in order to be counted as "national". If Catalonia can, why not Hong Kong? Deryck C. 06:12, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Huh? No, i just said I cant read Catalan. I wont be able to revify if they indeed proclaimed anything with regards to their status. Can any of you do so? If its was indeed verified as such, then it should be removed from the list. Why is there a tendency to add an error instead of removing it? Meanwhile, I dont know what I was thinking or seeing, but I finally saw the Greenlandish entity only while adding entries for other countries yesterday. :D Again, its not in English, so I cant veiify it, but I would certainly remove it too if it was added by some autonomy/independency-minded individuals out to make a political statement.--Huaiwei 06:28, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * It is not a error but an exception from general rules. Please don't follow rules too strictly. Life, behaviours and writing are all flexible and situation-dependent. Deryck C. 06:43, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * It seems that the question about "if HKCL is a national library" has developed into another question "if the putting of HKCL and Catalonia Library as national libraries is an error or an exception from general rules". Obviously, there's no absolute answer for this question. I think the best way to solve this problem is a vote. Deryck C. 06:46, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * And this is the problem here when dealing with many HK issues. I get an impression that the 1C2S formular has comehow led to an exploitation of it in pushing it to its limits, to the point of even self-proclaiming "national" institutions and artifacts when there are non before. It is not just in here. I notice some of you would go around attempting to reinterpret or even redefine definitions so long that HK (and Macau) entries can fit into lists normally reserved for soverign states. Clearly, if a non-soverign entity wants entry, it has to demonstrate its worth, and not insist that since "someone is in there, then so can all of us". Not all dependencies receive the same amount of autonomy, so I question the validity of constantly using this as excuses for inclusion. I also notice a tendency in "nationalising" things more because of sentimental feelings rather then fact. Even if the entirety of everyday HKers think that the flag of HK is a national flag, it is still not so, simply because it was never officially regarded as one. Same in this case. where is the evidence that this library is a national library? The only evidence so far is based on an individuals "frequent visits" to the library? How does these frequent visits tell you that this library has been entrusted with the sole responsibility of heritage preservation by the local government, is the sole legal institution tasked with building a national bibliography, and has Legal deposit rules? You can see this rule by frequent visits? I can easily show concret proof in writing for each of the above and more, say, for the National Library of Singapore. Why is this still lacking for the HK institution?

 * Once again, I advice. HKers may need to slowly get to realise the fact that "gut feelings" and "personal pride for their homes" dosent neccesarily qualify to turn assumptions as fact. This becomes obvious once concrete evidence fails to come forth when requested. This dosent just apply to HKers, not even to just non-soverign states. Citizens of independent countries who interpret assumptions and what they consider as "common knowledge" as fact without validation is just as gulty of this very common tendency of individuals in expressing local pride. While this by itself is nothing wrong, it is when the sanctity of factual accuracy is compromised that issues occur.

 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. It is not a high school project whereby students can express personal opinions and present assumptions for teachers to verify and grade. I would seek common understanding in this, and for all past and future episodes like this. Still remember the "national flag" issue? "Natonal food"? Same thing applies.--Huaiwei 07:11, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The "national flag" issue is different from this one. In the "national flag" issue, all the flags listed are flags of sovereign states. However, in the library issue, it is found that many head libraries of autonomous dependent regions of another sovereign state are regarded as national libraries.

 * Another reply to the "frequent visit" problem: according to my visits, I can see those rare books that Huaiwei mentioned (such as law books, bibilography, etc, etc) and according to the brochures of HKCL it really does preserve the Chinese culture as well as HK culture as designated by the HK govt. Deryck C. 07:24, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Not exactly true. The "National flag" tag was applied to quite a couple of non-soverign states, and when I removed the tag from the HK and Macau enries, Instantnood demands they be added back because of all those other entries, such as Greenland (which you youself proposed too). When it comes to the library, how on Earth did you come to that statement?

 * I think you misinterpreted what it means when it comes to "bibliography". A national bibliography refers to a complete catalogue and referencing document of all books ever published or related to a certain country. it is not a "rare" book. the existance of "rare" artifacts in a library alone dosent count as neccesarily being a national library. My former varsity library has an amazing collection of old and rare books which easily rivals that of the national library, so what differentiates the two? Legislation. The laws of Singapore specifies that the NLB is the national library by according to it the powers and responsibilities of one. The law says that book publishers must deposit books with the national library, but not to my varsity library. Competing entities may offer the same services and collection, but they still wont qualify if no one ever officially accords it national library status. And btw, I expected the HK library to contain artifacts from the rest of China, so is it now the national library of the PRC too?--Huaiwei 07:37, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I mean, rare books AND bibilography. Deryck C. 07:46, 20 July 2005 (UTC)


text:
Ivan Kulakov

Ivan Yuryevich Kulakov (Ива́н Ю́рьевич Кулако́в; born July 15, 1967) is a Russian geophysicist and artist.

Kulakov was born in Novosibirsk in Siberia. During his childhood Ivan visited the lectures his father Professor Yury Kulakov conducted on both classical and contemporary art. The museums of the former Soviet Union, along with the paintings and photographs his father showed him, have had a significant influence on Kulakov's art. Today he says that these lectures were much more important to his development as an artist than any school of arts or university could have been. The symbiosis of his scientific career and art career has allowed Kulakov to exhibit in many countries.

title: Ivan Kulakov


text:
Tetris Plus

Tetris Plus (テトリスプラス) is a puzzle video game developed and by Jaleco for arcades in 1996, and ported to the Sega Saturn, PlayStation and Game Boy later that year. The game would be followed by a sequel, Tetris Plus 2, in 1997. Ports were to be developed for the Atari Jaguar and Nintendo 64 but these were never released.

Gameplay
The game consists of two main modes, Classic Mode and Puzzle Mode. Classic Mode is a standard Tetris game. Puzzle Mode is a mission-based mode where the player must clear a pre-arranged puzzle layout in a limited time. Also included is an editor for making Puzzle Mode levels, and capability for competitive multiplayer in either game mode. The console versions also have a two-player Versus Mode, which is essentially puzzle mode with two players racing for the finish line.

Puzzle Mode
The biggest addition to Tetris Plus is the Puzzle Mode. The player starts with the first zone, the Egypt; later there are in order: Angkor Wat, Maya and Knossos. The final area, Atlantis, is unlocked by successfully completing the other four stages. Each of the four locations has a different level set. Once the game starts, the player is presented with a cluster of pre-placed bricks, and a professor character who enters the play-area through a disappearing gate and gets trapped along with a spiked ceiling. The objective is to get the professor to fall to the bottom, by placing blocks and clearing lines, before the spiked ceiling at the top comes down and crushes him. Two blocks wide and tall, he will aimlessly walk forward until he bumps into a block, after which he turns around and walks the other way. If he comes across a gap that is large enough for him to fit through, he will fall down onto the blocks below him. Conversely, if blocks are placed on top of him, he will climb up them until he reaches the top. But if he is unable to move, he will fall asleep until either a block comes down onto him or the ceiling reaches his current position. If these blocks lead too closely to the spikes, the professor will die.

Upon starting the level, the spiked ceiling will start at the top of the play area. About once every eighteen seconds, it will move down one notch, slowly taking away workable space. The player is able to make the ceiling go back up, however, if they can clear three or four rows at once. The ceiling will also destroy any placed blocks that are in its way. This can be used to remove any unwanted pieces until the piece the player wants appears. If the timer go up for over 125 seconds, the ceiling will come down faster and the professor will get crushed.

Release
The game was published in 1996 in the United States by Jaleco, shortly after the company signed an agreement with Blue Planet Software giving Jaleco exclusive rights to publish Tetris games for the Saturn and PlayStation in the United States for the following two years. The PlayStation version sold well enough to be re-released for the Greatest Hits budget range.

Reception
In Japan, Game Machine listed Tetris Plus on their February 1, 1996, issue as being the sixth most-successful arcade game of the month.

Critical response to the Sega Saturn version was generally unenthusiastic. GameSpot editor Peter Criscuola referred to it as "a feeble attempt at reviving a legend", GamePro's Scary Larry as "a poor addition to the Tetris library", and Stephen Fulljames of Sega Saturn Magazine as "certainly nothing to get excited about." The four reviewers of Electronic Gaming Monthly were more positive than most, with Dan Hsu deeming it "a good package for even a part-time Tetris fan" and Sushi-X "a rewarding title with multiple levels of fun with the same classic challenge." The Puzzle Mode was met with disapproval for various reasons: Criscuola said it was too easy, Fulljames said it was frustratingly hard, Scary Larry said it didn't differ enough from the original Tetris, and a Next Generation critic said it simply wasn't as appealing as the original. Other frequent criticisms were that the graphics are subpar,   and that the controls in all the modes are more difficult and counterintuitive than in previous versions of Tetris.

In a retrospective review, Allgame editor Jon Thompson called the Saturn version "boring".

Sequel
Tetris Plus 2 (テトリスプラス2) is an arcade game released by Jaleco in 1997. It was the only sequel to Tetris Plus.

title: Tetris Plus


text:
Lallation

Lallation may refer to:

 * A developmental stage in infantile speech from around 7–8 months when a child repeats (often incorrectly) sounds they have heard
 * A difficulty with enunciation which makes l sound like r (see lambdacism) or vice versa (see rhotacism)

title: Lallation


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andersson Burger

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!)  09:24, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Andersson Burger
Dubious type of burger, claims to be the vegetarian version of the Johnson burger, which is also on VFD. NSR (talk) 14:09, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Nonsense. Google has one unrelated page for "Andersson burger". KeithD 15:30, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per KeithD. Xoloz 05:26, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete unverifiable. JamesBurns 07:47, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
GE U18B

The GE U18B diesel-electric locomotive was introduced by GE Transportation as a branch line road switcher locomotive in 1973. It was the only North American locomotive powered by the 8-cylinder 7FDL engine. The U18B was not a popular seller with GE only making about 150 of them, and they were mostly purchased by Maine Central and Seaboard Coast Line. Railroads lost interest in specialized road units entering the 1970s. The U18Bs were noted for having reliability issues and being underpowered. The Maine Central referred to their U18Bs as the Independence class and named their units after revolutionary war heroes. GE included information about a B18-7 locomotive (which would have followed the U18B) in its 1978 "Series-7 Road Locomotives" service manual, but none of these updated units were ordered, sold, or built.

title: GE U18B


text: User talk:131.131.1.131

title: User talk:131.131.1.131


text:
Sailing By

"Sailing By" is a short piece of light music composed by Ronald Binge in 1963, which is used before the late Shipping Forecast on BBC Radio 4. A slow waltz, the piece uses a repetitive ABCAB structure and a distinctive rising and falling woodwind arpeggio.

Context and usage
"Sailing By" is played every night on BBC Radio 4 at around 00:45hrs before the late Shipping Forecast. Its tune is repetitive, assisting in its role of serving as a signal for sailors tuning in to be able to easily identify the radio station. It also functions as a buffer: depending on when the final programme before closedown finishes, "Sailing By" (or part of it) is played as a "filler" as the forecast starts at 00:48hrs precisely.

In the 1990s the tune was also adopted for the weekly maritime programme Seascapes on Ireland's RTÉ Radio 1, ceasing at the end of 2009. It has since been reinstated.

Popularity
Besides its intended function, "Sailing By" is thought of affectionately by many British radio listeners as it is considered a soothing accompaniment to bedtime. The lead singer of the Britpop band Pulp, Jarvis Cocker, chose "Sailing By" as one of his Desert Island Discs, saying for many years he had used it "as an aid to restful sleep".

A version was released in 1965 by John Scott and his Orchestra on the Parlophone label (R 5333). The BBC issued it as a single in 1973 on its own BBC Records label, played by the John Fox Orchestra.

The piece appeared on a single recorded by the Royal Ballet Sinfonia in a quest to save the "Radio 4 UK Theme". In 1993 there was a similar reaction by BBC listeners when "Sailing By" was temporarily taken off the air on weekday schedules, leading to it being re-instated in 1995.

The recording used by the BBC (performed by the Alan Perry/William Gardner Orchestra) was originally only available as library music, but has since 1997 been available commercially as track 11 on the second disc of the EMI CD set titled The Great British Experience (EMI Classics CDGB50). It is also available as track 8 on the CD Elizabethan Serenade: The Best of British Light Music, produced by Naxos and performed by the Slovak Radio Symphony Orchestra. The unexplained crediting of the BBC recording to the "Perry Gardner Orchestra", suggesting the existence of a conductor or arranger by that name, is apt to be confusing; indeed, "Alan Perry" and "William Gardner" are in fact pseudonyms for composers Ernest Tomlinson and Peter Hope. The BBC broadcast the original stereo version for a few weeks in the late 1980s, but soon reverted to a mono version.

title: Sailing By


text:
Talk:Yogi Rock

Other Rocks
What are the other rock's names and/or links. Does the Mars Pathfinder article have a list? --Nathan8225 14:11, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Yogi Berra Stadium???--malber 16:30, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * It's a bit of a stretch, I agree, but the first external link is an example of someone noting it, so it must be notable. Maybe.  Bovlb 19:10:04, 2005-07-19 (UTC)

Confusion
On both images, i fail to find any rocks that resemble Yogi Bear in the slightest.. What am i doing wrong here. Gnu32 23:09, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Ditto. Where is this Yogi Bear image? Is Yogi just a nickname? The cited articles don't say the rock looks like Yogi Bear. WpZurp 23:01, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I had a hard time, too. Look in the black-and-white photograph straight to the left of the large rock there. It's just slightly above and to the left of the group of rocks that I guess the same person would say resembled Hawaii. I agree that it doesn't have a huge resemblence. --Unsigned.

I cannot see any resemblance at all to add my 2 cents worth. Unsigned, could you upload a version with what you are reffering to circled? I can't see anything but rocks and a Mars Pathfinder. Pretty lame really. And the color version looks like it hasn't been stitiched properly - there's a big cut line. --Fir0002 12:15, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

 * I updated the first image (and made the thumbnail bigger) to highlight Yogi Rock. I also agree that it doesn't look any more like Yogi Bear than any other rock, but, hey, I didn't name it.  -- Plutor 15:59, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

The Yogi Bear article notes that " In the initial photos the rock had the appearance of a little bear facing away" - I found that thinking about it this way, as a generic bear, made it much more apparent. The head of a bear, seen from behind, facing off towards the top left corner. The "neck" at the back slopes down; the small pointy section at the front looks like a nose which is mostly "eclipsed" by the head; just next to it we have a distinct chunk which looks like the left ear, and there's a small lump on the other side (or possibly a small rock behind Yogi) which makes the right year. Does that make sense? I've added a rough outline image to give the right idea. Shimgray 16:39, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Oooh. I see it now. Dang, compairing the rock to a bear requires more imagination than seeing pictures in most constellations! (though I think the big and little dippers really do look like ladles) I guess if you think really, really hard, you can imagine any shapeless object bears a resemblence to something. Also, I think you have to understand that the scientists who named the rock had probably been watching rocks for months, maybe years at a time, and were so bored out of their mind that they start fantasizing about faces on rocks (plus they might be drunk or on drugs). That kind of reminds me of the The Onion article, "Mars Rover Beginning To Hate Mars" (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/54360) By the way, should we add your outline of the rock to the main page? It might help people to see the resemblence. Kevin 15:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I looks nothing like Yogi Bear! This page is rubbish, who decided that it looked like yogi bear? Your picture still doesn't make the rock look like Yogi. What a load of crap. --Differentgravy 18:51, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I think there's some confusion here. My understanding is that someone saw the rock, decided it looked like a bear (or at least a bear's head), and then named it for Yogi Bear, as a specific bear. I'm not personally convinced it looks like a bear, but I can at least see where our unknown JPLer got the idea from - unfortunately I can't find a photo of a bear taken from this angle. Shimgray 19:16, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Aha - try comparing it to this, which shows a panda looking away and slightly to the left. It's not the best of things to decide it looks like - it's a bit like seeing "shapes" in clouds - but I can see how the conclusion got there. Shimgray 22:30, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The rock does resemble a bear quite clearly, but again whoever originally looked at the rock and said it resembled yogi bear must have imagined a hat shape on it --81.156.159.255 01:53, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I am the same Unsigned from above, I had planned to come back to this, but couldn't find the page again. Now that I've found it I see there have been several changes, and I don't believe "Yogi Rock" is the large rock there, but I may be mistaken. As soon as I get the chance to upload, I will point out the one that I believe to be the true Yogi Rock, which should be sometime later today. --Unsigned

 * BAM! What do you all think? I think the article needs to be changed. Sevenspade 21:54, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Um, no. There is no dispute as to which rock is Yogi, the dispute is to why the hell it looks like it., and  call it Yogi Rock, as do any number of other NASA pages.  also makes it quite clear. Shimgray 22:27, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Aha, here's an explanation of the origin... still the big rock, though. Shimgray 22:12, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Right. I'm all depressed now. Sevenspade 02:08, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I love wikipedia
we have articles on other planet's rocks now!....--Alexandre Van de Sande 22:18, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * You might be amused to note that we don't just have an article on Yogi Rock - we've also ones on the Genesis Rock (from the Moon), ALH84001 (from Mars), and Heat Shield Rock (still on Mars). We probably ought to have one on Tracy's Rock, too. I feel a rather weird page coming on... Shimgray 22:30, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Now we just need a List of named rocks on other planets. -- Plutor 12:37, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

This is a great little article! alteripse 13:20, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Yogi Rock


text: Category:Museums in South Korea

title: Category:Museums in South Korea


text:
Talk:Alexander Vinokourov

Vinnies New Motto After Stage 13
I came. I saw. I doped. I conquered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.163.224 (talk) 09:28, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Haters always gonna hate. Can't wait though to hear what you think Vino's new motto is, given his historic win in the 2012 Olympics? joepa T 19:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Vino leaving T-Mobile
Vino has announced he will be leaving T-Mobile, but I'm not sure what should be done about his page. It looks like the paragraph written about the 2005 Tour was posted before his announcement, so maybe the speculation about his role in the T-Mobile team should be scrapped? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by T-mccool (talk • contribs).

Does anyone know why his jersey and helmet weren't pink like the rest of team T-Mobile this past Tour de France? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

 * National champions are allowed to wear the colors of their national championship during the Tour, which Vino chose to do on all stages except the TTs, presumably because he only had a T-Mobile pink TT aerodynamic uniform --Serge 05:30, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Only current national time trial champions are allowed to wear their nations colours at the time trial events. This works the other way around too, as only the road racing winners are allowed the national tricot on the normal stages. Poulsen 09:29, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh! Makes sense.  Thanks for clarifying that!  --Serge 16:25, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I am a very big fan of AV but this page reads like a campaign website to elect Vino to be the next president! Does not seem to have the impartiality, or objectivity, that one would expect from an encyclodpedia entry. Also the extremely detailed portion (2005 Tour de France) of Vino's last couple of days on a single day, in a single race, in a single season, in his entire career seems a tad bit too.... wordy. Too much info for a brief. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

What is an "A" test?
Maybe someone could add a link to an article about an "A" test. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mathchem271828 (talk • contribs).

then they could also do a link to the "B" test. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

After a brief attempt, I cannot find an article re this, but in brief, when an athlete submits a sample, it is broken into 2 parts. A first test is done, this is the A sample. If this test comes up negative, that is supposed to be the end of it. However, if the A sample test positive, the athlete can request that the 2nd or B sample be tested. If this test comes up negative, then the matter is dropped. This is to protect the athlete against false positive. Wschart 12:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

"Due to his injuries"
"Due to his injuries, Vino lost time in the Alps" - This is speculation. Although he did crash severly, he did well on stages before and after losing time in the Alps. I think this should be removed, or qualified as "Vino lost time in the Alps, likely do to his injuries" etc. --Rewguy 15:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Or better, "He lost time in the Alps, which Vinokourov attributed to xyz (citation)". I'll have a look around to see if he mentioned this in any interviews. SeveroTC 16:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

B-test
It is now confirmed by AFP that the b-test was positive as well. MartinDK 18:56, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Where is he now? Is he retired? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.177.8 (talk) 21:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

2005 Tour
Would anyone object if I had a go at condensing this section, particulary the bit about his win in the final stage? It's more detailed than his entire Vuelta win! LanterneRouge (talk) 12:31, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Most certainly, seems a good idea. SeveroTC 12:55, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Early professional career citations needed
I noted two statements in the section concerning Vino's early-professional career that I agree are true but, nevertheless, should be referenced/cited. Please take a look.Joep01 (talk) 19:09, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

2012
We need to create a new section in the article for 2012 and perhaps note the political infighting that broke-out in Astana team, chronicle Vino's return from the devastating injury but also address his struggle to be competitive at the WorldTour level...Joep01 (talk) 19:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

 * Vino's amazing and historic win in the 2012 Olympics road race has obviously given a push to some of you re. editing this page - bravo! Let's please stay on top of this and include as much verifiable content as is appropriate, and continue to document his life. joepa T 19:39, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

"Correcting" wording...
Before you begin to parse phrases and exact your own "style" upon this article - perhaps replacing single words or rewriting introductory clauses or playing with the order of an entire three whole words, why don't you invest some time and effort into building out any one of the multiple sections that are incomplete from a factual basis and await additional content? There is tremendous opportunity to contribute to the foundation of this article by ensuring the completeness of the sections as currently structured, or even conceptualizing something new. But to land here and start fiddling with individual words because you don't like the style is the height of arrogance. joepa T 09:30, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Joe. I'm sorry you've taken offence. Did you read those linked guidelines? It's not "my own style" which I'm imposing, I was merely reading the article (it was about a current event, after all) and found much of the wording to be promotional - "roared back into the limelight", "Vinokourov dashed ahead of Urán...when the latter bungled his sprint" and "he crossed the line alone, arms-aloft for a brilliant solo win" are completely unsuitable. Additionally, I do plenty of article recovery, here's one from two days ago - and manage to avoid promotional wording while doing so, so please avoid attacking me when I'm trying to help.  Nik the  stoned  10:24, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you both must put aside your biases and personal feelings and strive to contribute neutrally to this article, but also not nit-pick at words and idea that are not stained with controversy. This article requires much, much work and, considered in its entirety, as it reads now, it is neither like a journalistic narrative or propaganda that promotes the Vino in a subjective manner without imparting real information, nor does it read more like a story than an encyclopedia entry. What it is though is not a very high-quality article despite its size, and I think rather than targeting the contributions or reductions of some particular user, all should work together to come up with a plan to improve the overall quality of the article and its information architecture and structure of quotes and photos and such. User:Joep01, I have taken noted of the monumental-effort you and User:Gunbirddriver are making to edit Greg LeMond entry, and perhaps when finished there you can return here with same mentality and mindset to do very good work!! Azx2 10:29, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

images 2014
I saw the 2012 TT image was replaced - ok. No worries. But we should decide now if the article is good on images or if there are too many still, if their layout is good, etc. Feedback here would be great and guide editors fwd...  Azx2  04:30, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Alexander Vinokourov