text:
Talk:Davy Jones's locker

Removed utterly wrong comment
viz. Another suggestion is that it comes from "Deva Lokka", a Hindu goddess of death. [1] Although Deva is undoubtedly a Hindu term for a goddess, it is not clear that there was such a figure as "Deva Lokka". there isn't anything that comes close phonetically to "dev lokka". there is a term called devlok, which means abode of gods but how that can be same is davy jones is baffling. I think someone just got confused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.194.225.88 (talk) 18:30, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

usage error makes the title and its pronunciation incorrect
WP's manual of style states:
 * Possessives of singular nouns ending in "s" should generally maintain the additional "s" after the apostrophe. However, if a form without an "s" after the apostrophe is much more common for a particular word or phrase, follow that form, such as with "Moses' Laws" and "Jesus' tears".

The only literature quoted in the article, such as Daniel Dafoe, writes "Davy Jones's" not "Davy Jones'." This isn't an older or obsolete form of English, and the incorrect "Jones'" is not established. "Jones's" is the correct possessive form of the singular "Jones." On the other hand, "Jones'" is the plural possessive of the (hypothetical) name "Jone." Worse, everyone pronounces "Jones's" correctly, with two syllables, but "Jones'" only has one syllable. This article is making a trivial error of modern English usage right up front in its title, but I don't know how to edit such a glaring mistake. Until this is fixed, I don't see how it can be called a Good Article, so I am asking to have its status reviewed. 0-0-0-Destruct-0 03:21, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * In playing devil's advocate, I would have to say that the main problem with this is that the search engines for Google, MSN and Yahoo! have "Davy Jones' Locker" outnumbering "Davy Jones's Locker" in search results. Even though it's assumed that it is a locker belonging to a Davy Jones, the prevalent "Davy Jones' Locker" would have you assume that it would actually be for more than one person named Davy Jone.
 * Moreover, as the term is idiomatic, the correct spelling is not fixed (particularly in this subject's case, as "Davy" is sometimes spelled "Davey" or "Davie"); the most prevalent usage of the term takes more adherence over the one that is grammatically correct. Slof 14:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not intending to be pedantic with this. This particular usage error is made all the time in other contexts, which I don't support but am not going to fret over. My beef in our case is that everyone says Jones's with two syllables. It's embarrassing to see the very title, for pete's sake, clashing with this most oral of phrases. The variants of "Davy" don't suffer from this. I would say that mere outnumbering on Google shouldn't prevent the simple fix of changing the page's title, but such a change requires higher WP privileges. 0-0-0-Destruct-0 18:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

 * This is one of those bizarre grammar rules that only true grammarians seem to be aware of. An "S" with no apostrophe denotes plural, an apostrophe-S denotes possessive (not necessarily singular possessive since some words in plural do not add an "S"), and an S-apostrophe denotes plural possessive.  However, this only applies to ordinary nouns; proper nouns ending in "S" or "Z" (such as "Jones") only take on an apostrophe when denoting possessive.  Thus the correct construction is indeed "Davy Jones' Locker."  At least that's the usage style taught by Associated Press Style. Nolefan32 02:23, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

 * IMHO, if Associated Press says that, then Associated Press is wrong. More constructively: whatever AP's style manual says, Wikipedia has a style manual of its own which trumps other organizations' style manuals in this context, and (as 0-0-0-Deconstruct-0 said) Wikipedia's style manual is pretty clear on this point.  As 0-0-0-Deconstruct-0 also said, changing it to "Jones's" would also be supported by the more general rule that we follow common usage.  The common usage in this case is definitely "Jones's." 129.97.79.144 17:41, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Manual of Style says "Usage varies..." and has no specific guidance on if Jones’ is better or worse than Jones’s. Both forms correct and it depends on how you pronounce "Davey Jones' Locker." If the middle word is with one syllable then you write "Jones'" and if you pronounce it as "Jone-es" then you write "Jones's." I've generally heard people use, and I use, "Jones'." 0-0-0-Destruct-0 has apparently only heard and uses the two syllable version and so uses "Jones's." WP:MOS is also constructive to read.

 * The Instant English Handbook by Madeline Semmelmeyer and Donald O. Bolander (ISBN 0-911744-03-7) says on page 101 "One simple rule applies to all cases: If the singular form of the noun does not end in s, add the apostrophe and s ('s). If the singular form ends in s then add the apostrophe (')." Page 291 suggest to add a second s if the additional s sound is desired. Marc Kupper (talk) (contribs) 21:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Let's not forget that the phrase Davy Jones' locker originates from the language of seamen - they weren't necessarily the best educated of men, M3n747 (talk) 09:08, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Who on Earth, apart from those who are lazy, or have a speech impediment, pronounces the possessive of "Jones" as "Jones"? Pronunciation is, in any case, no rationale: English is not a true phonetic language.  And the number of syllables in the word is irrelevant - as is the spurious argument that a subject of the classics (Cyrus etc.) have their own special rule (such a rule would mean that one would need knowledge of disciplines outside the language in order to determine syntax - which is ridiculous). The If the subject is singular then the possessive always attracts the 's.  The 's is only properly truncated to ' when the terminal s in the noun denotes plural.  The use of the truncation in the singular is an archaic form from a time when variation of spelling in a single text was acceptable.  The continued use of this archaic form is generally used for poetic, or reverential use, or by those who are, in fact, ignorant - even if they have written a publication on the subject of grammar.  Publications are not immune from factual inaccuracies, misconceptions or misinterpretations - which then manifest the error to the reader. JohnArmagh (talk) 20:43, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

So, how does one 'fix' a title? Or is the procedure simple to copy the content and then change the current (bad title) article to a redirect? quota (talk) 08:33, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Why sentence(s) removed
I was a bit incensed to find that someone has removed the sentence(s) of mine on Dewi and Shoney, without at least considering to tell me why via talk? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alvis Rofhessa (talk • contribs) 04:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I took a look at what you added see that it was an extraordinary claim that was not backed up with extraordinary references (or any references at all). Encyclopedic content must be verifiable and so should cite sources. Marc Kupper (talk) (contribs) 20:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Relation to the Flying Dutchman
Apart from the obvious references made in Pirates of the Caribbean (which are historical whack), could someone find any sources at all that title Davy Jones being the captain of the Flying Dutchman? As far as I know, the two are completely different legends. I suggest the line: "There was a man by the name of Vanderdecken, original owner of the Flying Dutchman, Jones' ghost ship. There was an actual David Jones, who was a pirate on the Indian Ocean in the 1630s,[4] but most scholars agree that he was not renowned enough to gain such lasting global fame.[3] " is removed from the article. --81.206.214.43 (talk) 15:44, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Davy Jones is a Legend. And Legends can change his appearence, no picture is wrong and every Devil with his Name is right.;) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.23.171.64 (talk) 11:58, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Title of article is wrong?
The term is usually spelled "Davy Jones's Locker" -- and indeed this is the spelling used in the first line of the introduction. How does one change the name of the article simply? quota (talk) 08:25, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

 * The first line has been corrected. When a name or a word ends with an "s", as in Jones, the possessive form only needs an apostrophe, not an extra "s". As in "the boss' desk" (meaning the desk belonging to the the boss). For an example of this rule applied to names, see Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. - Boneyard90 (talk) 05:50, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

 * That is not the case. Despite Wikipedia policy, and despite the opinion of those who think they know, or so-called experts who claim to know otherwise, the omission of the possessive 's' for singulars ending in 's' is an archaic form, and Fowler's A Dictionary of Modern English Usage is somewhat derisory towards it, stating its usage is these days reserved for poetic or reverential reference, in addition to use for classical subjects (the last of these is particularly spurious, in that it requires knowledge beyond that of linguistics itself, in order to determine that a subject is one which is deemed to be classic in nature).  Americanisims appear to have a tendency to adhere to archaic forms of English, such as variance of spelling, if only in order to distinguish itself from the language of their former "colonial masters" - so it is not surprising that in the US there is a preference for s' over s's.  In fact s' is only truly appropriate when the terminal s of a noun indicates a plural.  Hence, Jones's is the correct possessive form for a singular named Jones - whereas Jones' would indicate possessive of a group of individuals named Jone.  (The plural possessive of Jones is Joneses'.)  Additionally, those who are determined to use Jones' as a singular possessive should also use the same form when a noun ends in x or in ce (for instance "Knox' father" or "conscience' sake").  JohnArmagh (talk) 17:18, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

 * What a convoluted rationale for justifying a lazy spelling error. It's all pretty moot, because as was pointed out, Wikipedia policy favors the "archaic form". Boneyard90 (talk) 17:55, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

 * There is nothing at all convoluted about it. The "lazy spelling error" is Jones'.  Jones's is the correct form.  And Wikipedia policy is actually essentially that the majority form employed in an article is the standard for future edits to that article. JohnArmagh (talk) 21:48, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

 * I like how you say that American English has "a tendency to adhere to archaic forms of English". That's awesome. I usually hear people saying that British English is the "original English". If American English holds on to the "archaic forms", would that mean it has a higher degree of - shall we say - "authentic" English? Boneyard90 (talk) 04:43, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

 * The "original English" was the language spoken by the Anglo-Saxon immigrants to Britain in the 5th Century. It is no longer spoken.  British English is a language which has evolved since that time - and during the majority of that time there was no standard spelling - and that was the case when the American colonies achieved independence.  Since that time British English adopted a standard of spelling and grammar to which the US was not obliged to adhere.  Additionally the vast majority of immigrants into the US during its post-independence development in the 19thC were from non-English-speaking regions - particularly Germany and the Hispanic regions (indeed, the German influence is apparent in the US accents of those areas with the heaviest influx of German people).  JohnArmagh (talk) 11:02, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I strongly support JohnArmagh. Where the possessive makes an extra syllable, only "-s's" is correct and "-s'" is irritating. Moonraker (talk) 07:11, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I've done it. Ordinary Person (talk) 09:31, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

And I've moved it back, as per WP:TITLECHANGES: Paragraph 2. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:02, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

 * For evidence, may I submit Slang and Its Analogues (1891), compiled by John S. Farmer of the Strand, London, who spells it both "Davy Jones' Locker" and "Davy Jones's Locker", so it would appear that either spelling is acceptable. That being the case, the more widely used form should be used as the article title. — howcheng  {chat} 17:31, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

 * In that case, the "more widely used" is the title as it is now. Google search "Davy Jones' Locker", minus "Wikipedia", turns up 488,000 hits; "Davy Jones's Locker", minus "Wikipedia", turns up 95,200 hit. "Common name" supports the title now in use. Boneyard90 (talk) 18:16, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Support move to "Jones's"—The naming of articles and the determination of the common name are more complex than you suggest, per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:TITLE. WP:SET also explains that "a search engine test can be very effective and helpful, or produce misleading or non-useful results." In the case of this article, almost all the sources in this article use "Jones's." We're not merely looking for the most common usage by the general public; instead, "Wikipedia generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)" (WP:UCRN). A great number of search engine results are NOT from reliable sources. Holy (talk) 21:47, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

I'll plan to move this article to "Davy Jones's Locker" after a while. It has been 3 days and there have been zero responses. Holy (talk) 19:30, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Comment I have boldly moved this article from Davy Jones' Locker to Davy Jones's locker. Contrary to what is written above, Wikipedia does not prefer the archaic form "Jones' locker", indeed as of 2022 we actively prefer "Jones's" as written as MOS:'S. (At the time of the above debate, in 2011, the advice was that it was optional which variant was chosen). Note that I have also amended the title to sentence case, thus "locker" rather than "Locker", as this is the form recommended by MOS:CAPS, given that the form with 's and lower-case l dominates usage in book sources. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 08:51, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Is this article meant as a spoof?
Is this article a serious one? It reads (particularly any reference to the Welsh) as a spoof of Wikipedia. Do any of the contributors who make reference to the Welsh have any knowledge whatsoever of Welsh culture? Most of the popularly known pirates do happen to be Welsh and the name Davy (Dafydd/Dewi) Jones is Welsh. Therefore, One might expect a bit more knowledge about Wales in an article on a figure called Davy Jones.

Do you know of any sources we could use to help improve this article? A section with welsh history would be interesting and add to this pageMeatsgains (talk) 21:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

This article is SO NOT encyclopedic158.61.0.254 (talk) 17:07, 6 November 2012 (UTC).

File:Punch Davy Jones's Locker.png to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Punch Davy Jones's Locker.png will be appearing as picture of the day on January 15, 2013. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2013-01-15. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! — howcheng  {chat} 21:33, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Welsh
Both "Davy" and "Jones" are specifically Welsh. Before the 18th century "David" was a moderately unusual English name. The English cognate of "Jones" is "Johnson".--Wetman (talk) 19:08, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

By : Shakyra — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.70.202.29 (talk) 20:19, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Who is Davy Jones?
Who is Davy Jones? 86.97.34.82 (talk) 16:20, 5 September 2017 (UTC)Jessica

Read the article Summerjohnston131 (talk) 08:04, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

External links modified
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Landlubber
Just means "land lover" i.e. "non sailor" - it may be an insult thrown at a greenhorn, but it doesn't mean "greenhorn". Vince Calegon 18:33, 5 June 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vince Calegon (talk • contribs)

Pop culture examples
At present most of the article length is given to examples of references to DJL in media works. When I removed them all, it was reverted and I was told to "obtain consensus," but the editor who reverted did not bother to state here why they believe that the examples are beneficial to the article. I dispute that "consensus" exists to have these in the article. Such examples are generally added as a form of drive-by "tagging" by anonymous or limited-activity editors without regard for editorial standards such as sourcing, coherence and significance, and as they grow, they attract still more anonymous editors who incorrectly suppose that this is the way an encyclopedia article gets written.

There is a consensus, established through RFC, that mere existence of a pop culture reference does not make it appropriate to mention in an article. Some reliable source should have commented on how the example reflects on the article subject. (See WP:TRIVIA.) I have retained such examples when cleaning up pop culture lists. However, examples that merely point out that a particular sequence of words were said somewhere are useless, and I will remove them here as I have removed them in many other articles. Anyone who wants to keep them can explain here why doing so would be consistent with the RFC consensus. 73.71.251.64 (talk) 21:14, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Rename to "Davy Jones (folklore)"?
The article mostly talks about the folkloric figure. Shouldn't the title reflect that? Isaac Rabinovitch (talk) 21:31, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Davy Jones's locker


text:
File:Elizabethditchley.jpg

Elizabeth I, the "Ditchley" portrait, By Marcus Gheerraerts the Younger, c. 1592.

Original in the National Portrait Gallery, London.

Elizabeth wears a crimson gown (barely visible on either side of her waist) with a white lining that matches the petticoat, bodice, and sleeves over a wheel or French farthingale.

Image from Portraits of Elizabeth I http://www.marileecody.com/eliz1-images.html

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: File:Elizabethditchley.jpg


text:
Talk:Land vehicle

wat do u call a vehicle which can run all land water and air

This page may already exist somwhere else!!
This page may already exist somwhere else!! Clean-up? --CylePat 18:46, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Land vehicle


text:
1961 in Singapore

The following lists events that happened during 1961 in Singapore.

Source:

Incumbents

 * Yang di-Pertuan Negara – Yusof Ishak
 * Prime Minister – Lee Kuan Yew

February

 * 20 February – The Singapore Malay National Organisation (PKNS) is formed as a branch of UMNO. It later split following independence.

April

 * 29 April – A by-election is held in Hong Lim after Ong Eng Guan resigned from his seat following expulsion from the People's Action Party (PAP). As two other candidates were disqualified, it is a contest between Ong and PAP's Jek Yuen Thong, which Ong regained his seat.

May

 * 24 May – The Women's Charter is passed, guaranteeing women's rights and equality in families. The Charter started on 15 September.
 * 25 May – The Bukit Ho Swee Fire kills 4 people and destroys 2,200 attap houses.
 * 27 May – Tunku Abdul Rahman, the Prime Minister of Malaya, proposes a merger between Singapore, Malaya, Sabah, Sarawak and Brunei (which pulled out last minute due to the Brunei Revolt).

July

 * 15 July – A by-election is held after assemblyman Baharuddin bin Ariff died a few months earlier. The People's Action Party lost this by-election; the second in a row, with David Marshall from the Workers' Party winning the Anson seat.
 * 25 July – The Singapore Trade Union Congress (STUC) splits, caused by an ideological split in the People's Action Party.
 * 26 July – Shell opens Singapore's first oil refinery at Pulau Bukom.

August

 * 1 August – The Economic Development Board is formed to create opportunities for Singapore businesses.
 * 12 August – The National Iron and Steel Mills (present-day NatSteel) is formed to develop Singapore's steel industry.
 * 13 August – Barisan Sosialis is registered as an opposition party, which dissolved and merged with the Workers' Party in 1988.
 * 16 August – The Singapore Association of Trade Unions (SATU) is formed after STUC's split earlier in July. The union is declared illegal in 1963 after conducting activities that threatened Singapore's national security.

September

 * 6 September – The National Trades Union Congress is formed to represent workers.
 * 13 September – 9 October – Lee Kuan Yew delivered a series of 12 radio talks in English, Mandarin and Malay to campaign for a merger with Malaysia. This also includes exposing the Communists' real ideology and reason for opposing the merger.
 * 16–17 September – The first Singapore Grand Prix is held at Thomson Road.

October

 * 15 October – The Sang Nila Utama Secondary School is officially opened, making it Singapore's first Malay-medium secondary school. By 1968, it started to offer English-medium lessons.

November

 * 16 November – A White Paper on the proposed merger with Malaya is published. It outlines similar citizenships, passports and rights for Singapore citizens when in Federation, at least 15 seats in the Federal House of Representatives and two in the Senate, maintaining of Singapore's free port status, how the Head of State will be appointed, among others.

December

 * 11–16 December – Singapore took part in the 2nd South East Asian Peninsular Games. It clinched the fifth place, accumulating a total of 28 medals.

Date unknown

 * The State Development Plan 1961–1964 is published. It aims to improve conditions in Singapore, during a time of high unemployment.
 * Queenstown New Town is being built and expanded to cater for a growing population. This comes after slow progress under the previous Singapore Improvement Trust.

Births

 * 23 January – Mas Selamat Kastari – Known for 2008 escape.
 * 25 January – Vivian Balakrishnan – Minister for Foreign Affairs.
 * 4 February – Edmund Chen – Former actor. Married with Xiang Yun, also born in 1961.
 * 6 February – Chen Show Mao – Former politician.
 * 12 February – Chen Jin Lang – Former singer. (d. 2006)
 * 19 May – David Ong – Former politician.
 * 14 July – Heng Chee How – Politician.
 * 16 August – Lui Tuck Yew – Former politician.
 * 15 September – Xie Shaoguang – Actor.
 * 27 October – Xiang Yun – Actress. Married with Edmund Chen.
 * 1 November – Heng Swee Keat – Deputy Prime Minister of Singapore.
 * Desmond Sim – Playwright, poet, writer, painter.
 * Isabella Loh – Chairperson of Singapore Environment Council.
 * Kelly Tang – Composer.
 * Ovidia Yu – Novelist, playwright.

Deaths

 * 30 January – Goh Hood Keng – First Straits Chinese to be ordained Methodist minister (b. 1888).
 * 21 April – Baharuddin bin Ariff, MP (b. 1933).
 * 12 August – Tan Kah Kee, businessman, philanthropist (b. 1874).

title: 1961 in Singapore


text:
Adequate Seven

Adequate Seven were a Welsh band who blended music styles such as hip hop, hardcore, punk, and funk. They formed in 2000 and split in December 2006.

History
Adequate Seven formed in November 2000 and played their first gig only four weeks later. The band drew upon a diverse selection of influences in creating their sound. In February 2001 the band released the Adequate Seven EP, a 5-track EP on their own label Breaking World Records.

The band was brought to the attention of London-based label Household Name Records who featured one of the band's tracks on their 2002 label sampler, following this with the release of Adequate Seven's début full-length Songs of Innocence and of Experience in March 2003 to critical acclaim.

Adequate Seven embarked on several tours, across the UK as well as mainland Europe, with bands such as Hundred Reasons, Capdown, The Suicide Machines and Fishbone as well as opening up for the likes of Cypress Hill and The Slackers. In the middle of 2004, Matt (Squeak) Price and Jonny Prosser left the band to pursue other musical directions. Gavin Fitzjohn and WD Davies were recruited by the band as replacements. Adequate Seven also played Compass Point Festival in Cardiff and appeared on the BBC Radio 1 Lock Up stage at the 2006 Reading Festival (Carling Weekend).

By the time Adequate Seven split up in 2006, they had played nearly 600 gigs all over Europe and had recorded 6 BBC sessions, 2 albums and an EP. The band left a unique musical legacy which has continued to influence bands around the world. Their albums are still regularly included in lists of great but obscure records in the music press, including on the NME's list in 2012.

Audio Rehab
Adequate Seven left Household Name Records early in 2005, instead choosing to release their debut single "Splitting Up" on Audio Rehab - a predominantly drum & bass label. According to vocalist Jamie Searle, the move was "totally friendly. We still get on with [Household Name], we're totally supportive of what they do, they still support our band and what we do."

Trombonist Tom Pinder added: "...we felt with this next album that it was time to take some big risks for the sake for the band's continuing progress, and perhaps even for its survival. We were recording an album in late last year that we had decided to release through Household Name, but we knew exactly what would happen if we released the record with them. We'd have sold a few thousand copies over the next couple of years and we'd be able to keep touring the same circuit and perhaps break into Europe a bit more but we'd still not really have an income from the band or any real prospect of one, and therefore because of various pressures on some of us individually we'd be struggling to continue to commit ourselves fully to the band. We decided that we needed a label that could get us out there and pay for us to spend the time and money necessary to make good records. Whilst Household Name is an excellent independent label, they don't work on a scale that could accommodate those extra things."

Searle was also sure to make the point that Adequate Seven would not suffer artistically from their move to the new label: "...we're not about to start working with machines any time soon. We're doing exactly what we did before, which was get into the practice room, write some tunes, have a bit of a dance."

The band released the "Splitting Up" single on 12 inch vinyl and CD in August 2005. The track caused interest on BBC Radio 1's evening shows, including being crowned Zane Lowe's "Hottest Record in the World".

Here on Earth
Prior to the release of their second album, Adequate Seven announced that a Ddouble A-side single - "Head Up High" / "Gotta Stay Focused" - would be released on 12 June 2006 via the band's own label, Breaking World Records.

Here on Earth was released on 19 June 2006. The album was named by Music News as one of ten albums that define the 21st Century.

Split
After rumours began circulating on the Internet about the band splitting up, Adequate Seven posted a statement confirming the rumours:

"After nearly six years, and nearly 600 gigs, we've come to the decision that it's the right time to call it a day."

The band released a final single, a free download of Set Your Sights and went on one final tour. The band recorded their final London gig, at the Underworld venue, and released a live album on Gravity DIP Records entitled "Last Night in London" in December 2006.

Adequate Seven played their final farewell gig on 10 December 2006 to a sold-out crowd at Cardiff Student's Union. Boom in the Diamond Industry, Captain Everything, Shootin' Goon, Get Cape Wear Cape Fly and Capdown all supported. Original members Jonny Prosser and Matt Price performed with the band during their set.

After Adequate Seven
Many members of the band have gone on to have further success in the music industry after the demise of Adequate Seven. Gavin Fitzjohn joined Get Cape. Wear Cape. Fly in early 2007 and toured and recorded with the band for 18 months before leaving to join Paolo Nutini’s band, with whom he still plays. Tom Pinder has also played with Get Cape Wear Cape Fly since early 2008, and also plays alongside Fitzjohn with Paolo Nutini's band, including numerous TV appearances.

Will Davies has had success with the Cardiff-based rock quartet Attack! Attack! who are touring the UK and Europe extensively to support the release of their first album. The band are also featured on the latest addition of Activisions Guitar Hero 5 as well as having had their single "You and Me" included in an episode of Beverly Hills 90210.

Fitzjohn, Pinder and Davies also play in the ska band Capital City Ska alongside Adequate Seven's former manager Matt Redd, which has also occasionally featured Pete Barnes on guitar.

Fitzjohn also plays with The Barry Horns and has played horns for Super Furry Animals, Manic Street Preachers and Imelda May. He also appeared in the 2018 Ghost album Prequelle.

Jamie Searle played with London-based hardcore band March of the Raptors with members of Fireapple Red from 2010 - 2013.

title: Adequate Seven


text:
1960 in Singapore

The following lists events that happened during 1960 in Singapore.

Births
There were 61770 recorded births

Deaths
There were 10210 recorded deaths.

Incumbents

 * Yang di-Pertuan Negara – Yusof Ishak
 * Prime Minister – Lee Kuan Yew

February

 * 1 February – The Housing and Development Board is set up by Lim Kim San, replacing the Singapore Improvement Trust. The Planning Authority takes over SIT's functions of land use in Singapore.

July

 * 1 July – The People's Association is formed.

September

 * 6 September – The National Library launches a new mobile library service.
 * 8 September – Tan Howe Liang wins a silver medal during the 1960 Summer Olympics.

November

 * 12 November – The Old National Library Building (demolished in 2004) was opened.

Date unknown
– Far East Organization, a property developer was founded.

Births

 * 7 January – Hong Huifang, actress.
 * 24 January – Jack Neo, film director.
 * 17 March – Ruth Langsford, presenter in the United Kingdom.
 * 29 March – Paddy Chew, actor (d. 1999).
 * 20 June – Jeremy Monteiro, singer.
 * 19 August – Wee Siew Kim, former politician.
 * 24 November – Shirley Ng, sports shooter.
 * Isa Kamari, author.

title: 1960 in Singapore


text:
Gateaux derivative

In mathematics, the Gateaux differential or Gateaux derivative is a generalization of the concept of directional derivative in differential calculus. Named after René Gateaux, it is defined for functions between locally convex topological vector spaces such as Banach spaces. Like the Fréchet derivative on a Banach space, the Gateaux differential is often used to formalize the functional derivative commonly used in the calculus of variations and physics.

Unlike other forms of derivatives, the Gateaux differential of a function may be a nonlinear operator. However, often the definition of the Gateaux differential also requires that it be a continuous linear transformation. Some authors, such as, draw a further distinction between the Gateaux differential (which may be nonlinear) and the Gateaux derivative (which they take to be linear). In most applications, continuous linearity follows from some more primitive condition which is natural to the particular setting, such as imposing complex differentiability in the context of infinite dimensional holomorphy or continuous differentiability in nonlinear analysis.

Definition
Suppose $$X$$ and $$Y$$ are locally convex topological vector spaces (for example, Banach spaces), $$U \subseteq X$$ is open, and $$F : U \to Y.$$  The Gateaux differential $$dF(u; \psi)$$ of $$F$$ at $$u \in U$$ in the direction $$\psi \in X$$ is defined as

If the limit exists for all $$\psi \in X,$$ then one says that $$F$$ is Gateaux differentiable at $$u.$$

The limit appearing in ($$) is taken relative to the topology of $$Y.$$ If $$X$$ and $$Y$$ are real topological vector spaces, then the limit is taken for real $$\tau.$$ On the other hand, if $$X$$ and $$Y$$ are complex topological vector spaces, then the limit above is usually taken as $$\tau \to 0$$ in the complex plane as in the definition of complex differentiability. In some cases, a weak limit is taken instead of a strong limit, which leads to the notion of a weak Gateaux derivative.

Linearity and continuity
At each point $$u \in U,$$ the Gateaux differential defines a function $$dF(u;\cdot) : X \to Y.$$

This function is homogeneous in the sense that for all scalars $$\alpha,$$ $$dF(u;\alpha\psi) = \alpha dF(u;\psi).\,$$

However, this function need not be additive, so that the Gateaux differential may fail to be linear, unlike the Fréchet derivative. Even if linear, it may fail to depend continuously on $$\psi$$ if $$X$$ and $$Y$$ are infinite dimensional. Furthermore, for Gateaux differentials that linear and continuous in $$\psi,$$ there are several inequivalent ways to formulate their continuous differentiability.

For example, consider the real-valued function $$F$$ of two real variables defined by $$F(x, y) = \begin{cases} \dfrac{x^3}{x^2+y^2} & \text{if } (x, y) \neq (0, 0), \\ 0 & \text{if } (x, y) = (0, 0). \end{cases}$$ This is Gateaux differentiable at $$(0, 0)$$ with its differential there being $$dF(0,0; a, b) = \begin{cases}\dfrac{F(\tau a,\tau b)-0}{\tau} & (a,b) \neq (0,0), \\ 0 & (a,b) = (0,0)\end{cases} = \begin{cases}\dfrac{a^3}{a^2+b^2} & (a,b) \neq (0,0), \\ 0 & (a,b) = (0,0).\end{cases}$$ However this is continuous but not linear in the arguments $$(a, b).$$ In infinite dimensions, any discontinuous linear functional on $$X$$ is Gateaux differentiable, but its Gateaux differential at $$0$$ is linear but not continuous.

Relation with the Fréchet derivative

If $$F$$ is Fréchet differentiable, then it is also Gateaux differentiable, and its Fréchet and Gateaux derivatives agree. The converse is clearly not true, since the Gateaux derivative may fail to be linear or continuous. In fact, it is even possible for the Gateaux derivative to be linear and continuous but for the Fréchet derivative to fail to exist.

Nevertheless, for functions $$F$$ from a Banach space $$X$$ to another complex Banach space $$Y,$$ the Gateaux derivative (where the limit is taken over complex $$\tau$$ tending to zero as in the definition of complex differentiability) is automatically linear, a theorem of. Furthermore, if $$F$$ is (complex) Gateaux differentiable at each $$u \in U$$ with derivative $$DF(u) \colon \psi \mapsto dF(u;\psi)$$ then $$F$$ is Fréchet differentiable on $$U$$ with Fréchet derivative $$DF$$. This is analogous to the result from basic complex analysis that a function is analytic if it is complex differentiable in an open set, and is a fundamental result in the study of infinite dimensional holomorphy.

Continuous differentiability

Continuous Gateaux differentiability may be defined in two inequivalent ways. Suppose that $$F \colon U \to Y$$ is Gateaux differentiable at each point of the open set $$U.$$ One notion of continuous differentiability in $$U$$ requires that the mapping on the product space $$dF \colon U \times X \to Y$$ be continuous. Linearity need not be assumed: if $$X$$ and $$Y$$ are Fréchet spaces, then $$dF(u; \cdot)$$ is automatically bounded and linear for all $$u$$.

A stronger notion of continuous differentiability requires that $$u \mapsto DF(u)$$ be a continuous mapping $$U \to L(X,Y)$$ from $$U$$ to the space of continuous linear functions from $$X$$ to $$Y.$$ Note that this already presupposes the linearity of $$DF(u).$$

As a matter of technical convenience, this latter notion of continuous differentiability is typical (but not universal) when the spaces $$X$$ and $$Y$$ are Banach, since $$L(X, Y)$$ is also Banach and standard results from functional analysis can then be employed. The former is the more common definition in areas of nonlinear analysis where the function spaces involved are not necessarily Banach spaces. For instance, differentiation in Fréchet spaces has applications such as the Nash–Moser inverse function theorem in which the function spaces of interest often consist of smooth functions on a manifold.

Higher derivatives
Whereas higher order Fréchet derivatives are naturally defined as multilinear functions by iteration, using the isomorphisms $$L^n(X, Y) = L(X, L^{n - 1}(X, Y)),$$ higher order Gateaux derivative cannot be defined in this way. Instead the $$n$$th order Gateaux derivative of a function $$F : U \subseteq X \to Y$$ in the direction $$h$$ is defined by

Rather than a multilinear function, this is instead a homogeneous function of degree $$n$$ in $$h.$$

There is another candidate for the definition of the higher order derivative, the function

that arises naturally in the calculus of variations as the second variation of $$F,$$ at least in the special case where $$F$$ is scalar-valued. However, this may fail to have any reasonable properties at all, aside from being separately homogeneous in $$h$$ and $$k.$$ It is desirable to have sufficient conditions in place to ensure that $$D^2 F(u)\{h, k\}$$ is a symmetric bilinear function of $$h$$ and $$k,$$ and that it agrees with the polarization of $$d^n F.$$

For instance, the following sufficient condition holds. Suppose that $$F$$ is $$C^1$$ in the sense that the mapping $$DF : U\times X\to Y$$ is continuous in the product topology, and moreover that the second derivative defined by ($$) is also continuous in the sense that $$D^2F : U\times X\times X\to Y$$ is continuous. Then $$D^2 F(u)\{h, k\}$$ is bilinear and symmetric in $$h$$ and $$k.$$ By virtue of the bilinearity, the polarization identity holds $$D^2F(u)\{h,k\} = \frac{1}{2}d^2F(u;h+k)-d^2F(u;h)-d^2F(u;k)$$ relating the second order derivative $$D^2 F(u)$$ with the differential $$d^2 F(u; -).$$ Similar conclusions hold for higher order derivatives.

Properties
A version of the fundamental theorem of calculus holds for the Gateaux derivative of $$F,$$ provided $$F$$ is assumed to be sufficiently continuously differentiable. Specifically:

 * Suppose that $$F : X \to Y$$ is $$C^1$$ in the sense that the Gateaux derivative is a continuous function $$dF : U \times X \to Y.$$ Then for any $$u \in U$$ and $$h \in X,$$$$F(u+h) - F(u) = \int_0^1 dF(u+th;h)\,dt$$ where the integral is the Gelfand–Pettis integral (the weak integral).

Many of the other familiar properties of the derivative follow from this, such as multilinearity and commutativity of the higher-order derivatives. Further properties, also consequences of the fundamental theorem, include:

 * (The chain rule) $$d(G\circ F)(u;x) = dG(F(u); dF(u;x))$$ for all $$u \in U$$ and $$x \in X.$$ (Importantly, as with simple partial derivatives, the Gateaux derivative does  satisfy the chain rule if the derivative is permitted to be discontinuous.)
 * (Taylor's theorem with remainder) Suppose that the line segment between $$u \in U$$ and $$u + h$$ lies entirely within $$U.$$ If $$F$$ is $$C^k$$ then $$F(u+h)=F(u)+dF(u;h)+\frac{1}{2!}d^2F(u;h)+\dots+\frac{1}{(k-1)!}d^{k-1}F(u;h)+R_k$$ where the remainder term is given by $$R_k(u;h)=\frac{1}{(k-1)!}\int_0^1(1-t)^{k-1}d^kF(u+th;h)\,dt$$

Example
Let $$X$$ be the Hilbert space of square-integrable functions on a Lebesgue measurable set $$\Omega$$ in the Euclidean space $$\R^n.$$ The functional $$E : X \to \R$$ $$E(u) = \int_\Omega F(u(x)) \, dx$$ where $$F$$ is a real-valued function of a real variable and $$u$$ is defined on $$\Omega$$ with real values, has Gateaux derivative $$dE(u;\psi) = \langle F'(u),\psi \rangle := \int_\Omega F'(u(x))\,\psi(x) \,dx.$$

Indeed, the above is the limit $$\tau \to 0$$ of $$\begin{align} \frac{E(u+\tau\psi) - E(u)}{\tau} & = \frac{1}{\tau} \left( \int_\Omega F(u+\tau\,\psi)\,dx - \int_\Omega F(u)\,dx \right) \\[6pt] & =\frac{1}{\tau} \left(\int_\Omega\int_0^1 \frac{d}{ds} F(u+s\,\tau\,\psi) \,ds\,dx\right) \\[6pt] & =\int_\Omega\int_0^1 F'(u+s\tau\psi)\,\psi \,ds\,dx. \end{align}$$

title: Gateaux derivative


text: File:KobeUniv logo.png

title: File:KobeUniv logo.png


text:
Talk:Global Information Grid

Thhank you for taking time and editing an article which I have begun, but didn't have the time for editing it properly.

 * Glad to help. -D. Wu 05:04, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

This new "core issues" should be deleted. It's a collection of pure fantasy that has nothing to do with the GiG. Before I hack that section out however, I'd like to see some concurrence from others rather than potentially starting a revert war. Gletiecq 05:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

DoD Network Information Center
Hi there. I was wondering, when I see "DoD Network Information Center" on the WHOIS information for IP addresses, is this what it refers to? I want to properly link from the SharedIP template. Thanks! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 14:15, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps he is referring to the UDDI or one of the several other "directories" (aka registries) that are in varying states of standing up 199.208.239.140 (talk) 18:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Reflection

 * Nice history lesson and background
 * Is there (or did I overlook it?) "current state" info available?
 * If I ovelooked it, can we make it more apparent?
 * Thanks, 199.208.239.140 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 18:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

COMPLETE OVERHAUL
I overhauled this article to reflect actual DoD doctrine/policy, etc... see references. I plan to add more, including a couple more pictures and relevant "who's in charge" pieces... regards, Warren --Warren Fish (talk) 04:04, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

 * In case you haven't noticed, this is probably one of the worst violations of WP:NPOV that I've ever seen; the tone of this article is absurdly pro-military and bureaucratic. I'm going to rewrite much of it to be more neutral. I'll use the French Wikipedia front matter as my reference text, as it's pretty decent.
 * Duckmather (talk) 02:41, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Global Information Grid. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110522043846/http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/810001p.pdf to http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/810001p.pdf

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 11:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Global Information Grid


text: User talk:85.65.9.213

title: User talk:85.65.9.213


text:
Wilson Council

Wilson Council may be:

 * Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars
 * Wilson Council (North Carolina)

title: Wilson Council


text: File:KobeUniv flag.png

title: File:KobeUniv flag.png


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Jaworski

Jaworski (Polish pronunciation: ; feminine: Jaworska, plural: Jaworscy) is a surname of Polish-language origin. It is related to a number of surnames in other languages.

Jaworski/Jaworska

 * Beata Jaworska (born 1994), Polish basketball player
 * Chet Jaworski (1916–2003), American basketball player
 * Daniela Jaworska (born 1946), Polish athlete
 * Jakub Jaworski (born 1986), Polish speed skater
 * Leon Jaworski (1905–1982), American attorney
 * Magdalena Jaworska (1961-1994), Polish model
 * Maria Daria Jaworska (1921–2022), Polish-Canadian physician
 * Marian Jaworski (1926–2020), Polish cardinal
 * Matt Jaworski (born 1967), American football player
 * Mikee Cojuangco-Jaworski (born 1974) Filipino equestrian
 * Paul Jaworski (1900–1929), American gangster
 * Rafał Jaworski (born 1973), Polish historian
 * Renata Jaworska (born 1979), Polish artist
 * Robert Jaworski (born 1946), Filipino basketball player and politician
 * Robert Jaworski Jr. (born 1972), Filipino basketball player
 * Ron Jaworski (born 1951), American football player
 * Jean-Philippe Jaworski (born 1969), French fantasy writer
 * Tadeusz Jaworski (born 1945), Polish runner
 * Walery Jaworski (1849–1924), Polish gastroenterologist

Related surnames

 * Boleslav Yavorsky (1877–1942), Russian musicologist
 * Constantin Iavorschi (born 1990), Moldovan football player
 * Jiří Javorský (1932–2002), Czech tennis player
 * Nikolai Yavorsky (1891–1947), Cuban choreographer
 * Serhiy Yavorskyi (born 1989), Ukrainian football player
 * Stefan Yavorsky (1658–1722), archbishop and statesman in the Russian Empire
 * Taras Yavorskyi (born 1989), Ukrainian football player
 * Vadym Yavorskyi (born 1994), Ukrainian football player
 * Vladimír Javorský (born 1962), Czech actor

title: Jaworski


text:
Party of Democratic Socialism

Party of Democratic Socialism may refer to:

 * Party of Democratic Socialism (Czech Republic), founded 1997
 * Party of Democratic Socialism (Germany), 1989–2007
 * Party of Democratic Socialism (Greece), 1979–1989
 * Party of Democratic Socialism (India), founded 2001
 * Parti de la Democratie Socialiste, 1963-2002

title: Party of Democratic Socialism


text:
Category:Upcoming films

Category for films that are not released yet, but are planned to be filmed or released in the near future (see WP:NFF). This is distinct from Category:Unfinished films, which are films never likely to be released.

title: Category:Upcoming films


text:
Talk:Dating the Bible

Nevi'im Errata
The last sentence in this section is quoted below. The clause following "form," does not make grammatic sense. Sorry, I cannot fix it, because I cannot guess at the author's intended meaning.

"In the time of Jesus the book existed in its present form, with many prophecies in the disputed portions are quoted in the New Testament as the words of Isaiah."

Zenna

Table I incomplete
There is no mention of Joel or Sirach in the first table. Also the Wisdom of Solomon is mentioned in two sections on that table.

Nighm (talk) 14:12, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Pauline epistles
IP was correct it seems, but you can't add material to sourced text that the source doesn't say. Doug Weller talk 09:37, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Convert to prose
This article is unsuited for the table format so I added. – Treetoes023 (talk) 03:30, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd hardly call this a discussion. Achar Sva (talk) 10:14, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Treetoes023, you made this comment this month, yet the tag was added in January? What's going on? Achar Sva (talk) 04:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I added the in January, you removed it with the reason given being that it needs a discussion to be put on the article (it does not), I added the discussion to please you and reverted your change on removing the template. – Treetoes023 (talk) 07:15, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * But there's been n o discussion. Ok, let's have one: why do you think the change would be a good idea?Achar Sva (talk) 11:14, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * See WP:NO-TABLES, specifically the section on prose. – Treetoes023 (talk) 22:42, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, if you're willing to do the work. Achar Sva (talk) 06:58, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Ehhhhhhhhh, I don't really have the time or skill to convert this article to prose. That's why I added the template, so another user would see it and take action. It will probably be a while before anyone does something, I might get around to it on my own in a few months though. – Treetoes023 (talk) 07:05, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Obvious mix up of BC and AD/CE
The descriptions of dates for books in the New Testament describes all of them as from the first century BC. This is incorrect. They are from the first century AD. 2601:280:C500:F6C0:DD0C:2C7A:9244:A69E (talk) 16:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dating the Bible


text:
Talk:Shilajeet

Untitled
I moved this to the more common spelling Shilajit KSVaughan2 05:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Shilajeet


text:
Laguna Atascosa National Wildlife Refuge

Laguna Atascosa National Wildlife Refuge is the largest protected area of natural habitat left in the Lower Rio Grande Valley. The 120,000 acre refuge is located almost entirely in Cameron County, Texas, 25 mi east of Harlingen, although a very small part of its northernmost point extends into southern Willacy County.

History
The Laguna Atascosa National Wildlife Refuge was created following World War II in 1946 to protect habitat for migratory birds and waterfowl, specifically redhead ducks (Aythya americana).

By 2010, it had grown to encompass a total of 65096 acre in a landscape of "an interspersed pattern of meandering resacas (oxbow lakes), lomas (brush-covered sand/clay dunes), coastal prairies, and wetlands."

In January 2024, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department announced a proposal to add 477 acre to the Laguna Atascosa National Wildlife Refuge via a swap of land currently owned by SpaceX, in order to allow SpaceX to become the owner of 43 acre of Boca Chica State Park land to expand their existing rocket launch facility at SpaceX Starbase.

Fauna
The Peregrine Fund began reintroducing captive-bred northern aplomado falcons (Falco femoralis septentrionalis) to the refuge in 1985, which had been nearly extirpated from the Southwestern United States; by 2009, it was home to 26 pair.

Nine other endangered or threatened species inhabit the refuge, such as the Texas ocelot (Leopardus pardalis albescens) and (formerly) the Gulf Coast jaguarundi (Herpailurus yagouaroundi), rare wild cats.

Botany and ecology
Programs at the refuge include vegetation and wetland restoration.


text:
User talk:Chilio~enwiki

Welcome!
Hi,, Welcome  to Wikipedia! I hope you like this place — I sure do — and want to stay. Before getting too in-depth, you may want to read about the five pillars of Wikipedia. If you need help on how to title new articles check out the naming conventions, and for help on formatting the pages visit the manual of style. If you need help look at Help and the FAQ, plus if you can't find your answer there, check the Village Pump (for Wikipedia related questions) or the Reference Desk (for general questions)! There's still more help at the Tutorial and Policy Library. Plus, don't forget to visit the Community Portal. And if you have any more questions after that, feel free to post them on my user talk page. ---

Additional tips
Here's some extra tips to help you get around in the 'pedia!
 * If you want to play around with your new Wiki skills the Sandbox is for you.
 * You can sign your name using three tildes (~). If you use four, you can add a datestamp too.
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 * If you're bored and want to find something to do, try the Random page button in the sidebar, or check out the Open Task message in the Community Portal.

Happy Wiki-ing.
— Ilγαηερ   (Tαlκ) '' 18:16, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Bpfc logo.png
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Speedy deletion nomination of PFC Botev Plovdiv
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Chilio. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Chilio~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:02, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 11:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Chilio~enwiki


text:
User:Tahngarth

I've made major contributions to the following articles

Atha'an Miere

Emond's Field

Gawyn Trakand

Cadsuane Melaidhrin

Callandor

Aside from Wheel of Time I am interested in Magic: The Gathering, Political Science, History, Pro Wrestling, Heavy Metal, and gaming.

title: User:Tahngarth


text:
North End tube station

North End (commonly referred to as Bull and Bush) is a never-completed underground station, on the Charing Cross, Euston and Hampstead Railway (CCE&HR, now part of the London Underground's Northern line). The station was to have been built at North End on the boundaries of Hampstead Heath and Golders Hill Park and is located on the Edgware branch between Hampstead and Golders Green.

Due to its location near the top of a hill, the station would have been, at 221 ft, the deepest below ground on the entire Underground network. The current deepest is the adjacent Hampstead station to the southeast.

The station's alternative name derives from its proximity to the nearby famous Bull and Bush public house, a well-known landmark in the area.

Construction
The original royal assent for the construction of the CCE&HR was granted under the Charing Cross, Euston and Hampstead Railway Act 1893 (56 & 57 Vict. c. ccxiv) but gave permission for a railway only as far north as Hampstead. Financing difficulties meant that no work had begun by the beginning of the 20th century and the company was bought out in 1900 by a syndicate led by American financier Charles Yerkes. Following the purchase, plans were revised to continue the route under the Heath to Golders Green where a depot could be constructed and where open farmland offered opportunities for property development.

The new proposals met with strong opposition from residents of Hampstead and users of the heath who feared that the construction of tunnels would detrimentally affect the Heath's ecology. The Metropolitan Borough of Hampstead also initially objected but relented and parliamentary approval was granted for the extended route in the Charing Cross, Euston and Hampstead Railway Act 1903 (3 Edw. 7. c. ci).

One of the conditions for construction of the extended route was the provision of an intermediate station at North End, which would have been located on Hampstead Way. The station would have served a new residential development being planned to the north of the heath, but Henrietta Barnett instigated the purchase of the land from Eton College in 1904 to form the Hampstead Heath Extension instead.

Tunnelling for the CCE&HR had begun in 1903 and the construction of the station continued to the extent that the larger diameter station tunnels and low-level passageways were excavated. However, it became apparent that the cancellation of the proposed residential development would significantly reduce the number of passengers using the station.

Works on the station were ended in 1906 before the lift shafts were dug and before any work on a surface building was done.

Legacy
The approach road to the station was built and now forms the first part of Hampstead Way. Services began on the CCE&HR on 22 June 1907, running through the abandoned station. The uncompleted platforms and lower passageways remain, with access to the tracks. During World War II these were used to store secret archives, with access only available from the cabs of passing service trains.

During the Cold War a shaft with stairs, but no elevator, was dug down to the lower passageways and the abandoned station became part of the London Underground's civil defence preparations. As the tunnels were the deepest in the network it was an ideal site. The role of this control centre was to manage the emergency floodgates placed throughout the tube network at the start of World War II, and previously controlled from central London. Its existence was kept secret and the newly-constructed entrance building at the top of the shaft was disguised as an electricity substation through the use of appropriate signage.

The exits from the platform tunnels are now marked as emergency evacuation routes from the Underground system, and its function is now publicly acknowledged.

title: North End tube station


text:
Talk:Grab bars

AFF?
This page links to the disambiguation page AFF, but I'm not sure what meaning is really intended. Can you help? Thanks. — Pekinensis 18:18, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Grab bars


text:
Moon Over Miami (song)

The popular song "Moon Over Miami" was written in 1935 by songwriters Joe Burke and Edgar Leslie. The music was used in the 1941 film Moon Over Miami being played during the opening credits and also played as dance music at both parties.

Early hits
Joel Whitburn assessed the most popular as being: The version by Eddy Duchin and his Orchestra (released by Victor Records as catalog number 25212B). Jan Garber & His Orchestra (released by Decca Records as catalog number 651B). Chick Bullock with Art Karle & His Boys (Vocalion 3146). Connee Boswell (released by Decca Records as catalogue number 657A).

Others early versions were by: Al Collins Band of London, UK recorded "Moon over Miami" on January 31, 1936 for Decca Records (GB-7658-1). Roy Smeck & His Orchestra (released by Decca Records as catalog number 649) Lud Gluskin's Orchestra with vocal by a young Buddy Clark (released by Brunswick Records as catalog number 7590), Henry Hall and the BBC Dance Orchestra.

Later cover versions

 * 1945 by Vaughn Monroe (released by RCA Victor Records as catalog num. 20-1707).
 * 1950 George Shearing Quintet recorded for the album George Shearing Quintet.
 * 1953 Patti Page included the song in her album Patti Page Sings for Romance.
 * 1956 Ralph Flanagan and His Orchestra for the album 1001 Nighters.
 * On 3 April 1957, Bill Haley & His Comets recorded a rock and roll version at the Pythian Temple, New York City. It was released by Decca Records as catalog number 102151 and included in the album Rockin' the Oldies.
 * 1960 Ray Charles recorded it for his album The Genius Hits the Road.
 * 1963 The Platters for their album The Plattters Sing of Your Moonlight Memories.
 * 1963 Percy Faith included it in his album American Serenade.
 * 1975 Bert Kaempfert included it in his album Moon Over Miami.
 * 2018 Sergey Neiss for Fallout: Miami mod.

title: Moon Over Miami (song)


text:
Gold (1974 film)

Gold is a 1974 British thriller film starring Roger Moore and Susannah York and directed by Peter R. Hunt. It was based on the 1970 novel Gold Mine by Wilbur Smith. Moore plays Rodney "Rod" Slater, general manager of a South African gold mine, who is instructed by his boss Steyner (Bradford Dillman) to break through an underground dike into what he is told is a rich seam of gold. Meanwhile, he falls in love with Steyner's wife Terry, played by York. In the United States, the film was released only as part of a double bill with The Taking of Pelham One Two Three.

Plot
Johannesburg, 1973. A tunnel collapse at the Sonderditch gold mine is no accident. It was actually a failed plan by an international syndicate to manipulate gold prices. They now arrange for a hole to be drilled into Sonderditch's underground wall next to a huge water reserve. Presumably, when the wall is breached, a flood will result, destroying the mine and boosting gold's market value. The syndicate's membership includes the mine-owner's son-in-law, Manfred Steyner, so this should all be a done deal. But Steyner's chief accomplice, his general manager, died in the tunnel collapse. So he now interviews Rod Slater, the underground manager, for the vacant post. Afterwards, Slater meets Steyner's wife Terry and is attracted, but she shows no interest. However, Steyner arranges for them to meet again, hoping Terry will influence her grandfather, Hurry Hirschfeld, Sonderditch's owner, to endorse Slater. The plan works: Slater becomes general manager, and he and Terry begin an affair.

Slater, unaware of the syndicate or its plans, carries out Steyner's orders to drill near the reservoir. But to provide insurance against catastrophe, he plants a safety charge to block the tunnel in case of a water breakage. Steyner soon discovers Slater is seeing his wife but allows the affair to continue. It will keep Slater away from the mine so that the safety charge can be disabled without his knowledge. Over a warm Christmas, Slater and Terry pilot her small plane to a vacation spot. While they are away, drilling back at the mine continues. When the final breach is made, a wall of water roars into the mazes of tunnels and shafts. The mine then floods, trapping a thousand workers. Slater hears of the disaster on the radio and demands Terry fly him back to the mine. Once there, Slater and Big King, a trusted indigenous worker, descend into the mine, braving flood waters, to reconnect the safety charge that will seal the dike and save the trapped miners. They succeed, but only because Big King sacrifices his own life to detonate the charge, allowing Slater to fall injured into a rubber dinghy and float to safety.

As Slater is carried from the mine to an ambulance, Hirschfeld tells him, "You're a maniac!"—but with a satisfied smile. Terry adds, "I love you." Which is just as well, for when Steyner's plot to destroy Sonderditch has failed, he is targeted for assassination by the syndicate. He perishes after being run over by a co-conspirator commandeering Steyner's own car. This conveniently leaves Terry free to continue her relationship with Slater.

Cast

 * Roger Moore ... Rodney "Rod" Slater
 * Susannah York ... Terry Steyner
 * Ray Milland ... Hurry Hirschfeld
 * Bradford Dillman ... Manfred Steyner
 * John Gielgud ... Farrell – syndicate head
 * Tony Beckley ... Stephen Marais
 * Simon Sabela ... 'Big King'
 * Bernard Horsfall ... Dave Kowalski
 * Marc Smith ... Tex Kiernan
 * John Hussey ... Plummer
 * Bill Brewer ... Aristide
 * George Jackson ... Mine Doctor
 * Ken Hare ... Jackson
 * Ralph Loubser ... Mine Captain
 * Patsy Kensit ... Daughter of German syndicate member

Book
The movie is based on a 1970 novel by Wilbur Smith.

The story was based on a real-life flooding of a gold mine near Johannesburg in 1968. Smith researched the book by working in a gold mine for a few weeks. "I was a sort of privileged member of the team, I could ask questions and not be told to shut up", he says.

The New York Times said "Mr Smith, an adventure writer disdainful of subtleties, blasts his way to a finale strewn with broken bodies and orange blossoms."

Development
Producer Michael Klinger bought the rights to it and Shout at the Devil as his follow up to Get Carter. "Actually they're both just as tough as Carter,” said Klinger of the projects. The South African government promised to co operate in filming at the mines.

The film Klinger most wanted to make was Shout at the Devil. However, because it was a period film it needed a large budget. Gold was cheaper because it told a contemporary story and he ended up filming that instead.

Klinger tried to set up the film with MGM, for whom he had made Get Carter. The studio bought out Klinger's option for Gold Mine for £25,000, but insisted that Klinger hire an experienced writer, Stanley Price, to work on the script along with Wilbur Smith. MGM later withdrew from the project – they were pulling out of all production in Britain – and Klinger bought back rights to the novel and script.

The budget of over £1 million was raised mostly from South African businessmen. (One account said it was three South African furniture manufacturers. )

Roger Moore was cast in the lead. It was his first film since making his debut as James Bond in Live and Let Die (1973). He was paid $200,000 plus a percentage of the profits. Producer Michael Klinger used a number of other people associated with James Bond films, including editor John Glen, production designer Syd Cain, titles designer Maurice Binder and director Peter Hunt.

Tony Klinger, assistant to the producer, said he tried to get Steven Spielberg to direct the movie after having been impressed by Duel. However, Roger Moore vetoed the choice on the basis of Spielberg's youth. "Roger was, I think, a little insecure about his acting ability, and as a consequence was always protective of his image, like most movie stars that are less actor and more star. I guess that's why we got the message loud and clear that he turned down our first choice for the director for Gold", he said.

It was reported that the South African government was opposed to the film but Klinger said it was actually the mining industry. However the General Mining Corporation eventually gave its support.

Filming
The film was controversially filmed in South Africa under the apartheid regime, with scenes shot at two large mines, Buffelfontein and West Rand. "We had to drop down two miles, which was horrendous,” said Moore. "It was great to start with, and I got tremendously enthusiastic about the mine, but after ten days down there it got very claustrophobic."

Some scenes were filmed at Pinewood Studios in London.

The British film union, ACTT, put a black ban on the movie because its members were forbidden to work in South Africa. The Union suggested the film be shot in a mine in Wales instead but the filmmakers refused, claiming Wales looked nothing like South Africa. Some members defied the ban.

Bradford Dillman later recalled "Susannah York, a militant liberal, used every publicity opportunity to deplore the conditions of the black miners, despite pleas from the producers to cool it."

The complexity of filming the final flood scenes resulted in the movie going over budget.

Klinger tried to sell the film to companies such as British Lion, Anglo-EMI, and Rank, but was rejected. He succeeded in selling the film to Hemdale.

Reception
The film was popular at the box office – it was one of the 19 most popular films at the British box office in 1974 – enabling Klinger to raise finance for Shout at the Devil.

Critical
The Los Angeles Times said the film "is everything people have in mind when they talk about a movie movie. Its hero is heroic, its heroine is beautiful and kittenishly sexy, its villains are outrageously villainous, its characters crustily colorful. It has scope, scale, surprise. It has more punch than a 15 round fight and more corn than Kansas. It is a travelogue of South Africa and a fascinating audiovisual essay on gold mining."

title: Gold (1974 film)


text:
You're Going to Lose That Girl

"You're Going to Lose That Girl" is a song by the English rock band the Beatles from their 1965 album and film Help! Credited to the Lennon–McCartney songwriting partnership, the song was mostly written by John Lennon with contributions from Paul McCartney.

Composition and recording
Credited to the Lennon–McCartney partnership, Walter Everett and Ian MacDonald both refer to the song as Lennon's. In his official biography Paul McCartney: Many Years from Now, Paul McCartney estimates the writing as 60–40 to John Lennon. The song was likely written in January or February 1965. In a 16 January 1965 interview with Ray Coleman for Melody Maker magazine, Lennon explained he had only written "half a song" for the Beatles' next film. From 25 January to 7 February, Lennon and his wife Cynthia vacationed in the Austrian Alps with Beatles producer George Martin and Martin's future wife, Judy Lockhart-Smith. The time off from touring provided Lennon, McCartney and George Harrison time to write new songs, eventually recording 11 new tracks between 15 and 20 February.

The Beatles recorded two takes and overdubs of "You're Going to Lose That Girl" during an afternoon session at EMI on 19 February 1965. The next day Martin, assisted by engineers Norman Smith and Ken Scott, mixed the song for mono. On 23 February while the Beatles filmed scenes for Help! in The Bahamas, engineers Smith and Malcolm Davies mixed the song for stereo twice, preferring the second mix over the first. On 30 March the Beatles recorded more overdubs onto the song. An electric piano and Harrison's original guitar solo were erased from the original tape. Everett describes the original guitar solo as "tortured" due to the heavy string gauge on Harrison's brand new Fender Stratocaster. Harrison recorded a new guitar solo, Ringo Starr played bongos and McCartney played piano. On 2 April Martin, assisted by Smith, made another stereo mix of the song using the 30 March overdubs. This stereo mix was included on both the UK and US stereo releases of Help!

In the film Help!
In the film, the group appears singing this song in the recording studio. In addition to the group's familiar guitar-and-drum setup, there is also footage of Paul McCartney at a piano and Ringo Starr playing the bongos, both miming instruments they had overdubbed onto the recording. Towards the end, one of the thugs uses a chainsaw to saw a hole in the floor around the drum kit. The producer reports that they will have to re-record the song due to a buzzing noise, at which point The Beatles begin asking one another who was buzzing. As they look to Ringo, he and the drums fall through the floor.

Release
Help! was released by EMI's Parlophone label on 6 August 1965, with "You're Going to Lose That Girl" sequenced as the sixth track between "Another Girl" and "Ticket to Ride". Capitol released the soundtrack album in North America with an altered track listing as Help! on 13 August. The track, instead titled "You're Gonna Lose That Girl", is eleventh and sequenced between two orchestral pieces. The track is the first use of Harrison's Sonic Blue Fender Stratocaster, with ones gifted to him and Lennon during the Beatles' 1965 US tour. The guitar remained one of Harrison's favorites for the rest of his career and featured heavily on the Beatles next album, Rubber Soul.

Writer Jacqueline Warwick describes the track as an "advice" song, comparable to "She Loves You" and the Beatles' earlier covers of girl groups. Everett describes McCartney and Harrison's responsorial backing vocals as being heavily influenced by Motown music. Warwick imagines Motown based choreography for the song: "it's easy to picture Paul and George shimmying and wagging their fingers if only they hadn't instruments to contend with." In his musicological analysis of the song's chord progressions, Everett describes the changes as "jarringly original". MacDonald describes the track as one of the few recorded during the Help! sessions that stands up, singling out the vocals in particular.

Bill Wyman interprets the Ramones' song "You're Gonna Kill That Girl" as a parody of the song.

Personnel
According to Ian MacDonald, except where noted:

 * John Lennon – double-tracked lead vocal, rhythm guitar
 * Paul McCartney – backing vocal, bass guitar, piano
 * George Harrison – backing vocal, lead guitar
 * Ringo Starr – drums, bongos

title: You're Going to Lose That Girl


text:
Talk:Bentonite

Old talk page posts
This clay can be obtained for medicinal/dietary use. Animals and people have used clay licks for thousands of years and some companies provide the substance as a powder with which a solution (or suspension) can be made, and taken. Apparently it helps remove toxins from the digestive system allowing the animal to consume plantation that would otherwise be poisonous. A paragraph on this usage would be useful but I do not have enough information. Oniony

Apparently it is called geophagy. Oniony

South African Bentonite

Here in South Africa Bentonite is used as animal feed, it increases their metabolising. It also work as a binder to animal feed

Broken
There is a broken link in the article, can someone redirect it to its proper location? I have not had time to figure out how to do this, or even know if the article exists.

 * Since there is no reference as to which of the various links is your broken link, I will mention one I found.
 * The link to the Oregon State University article is http://food.oregonstate.edu/glossary/bentonite.html
 * JamThi (talk) 01:31, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Acne treatment
I noticeed that Bentonite is listed as an "active ingredient" on some clearasil acne products. If anyone knows what effects bentonite has on one's dermatological health then could they please mention it in the article.
 * Bentonite is basically clay. Clay masks are a well-known treatment for acne. Clay is scientifically proven to be able to improve acne by cleansing deep into the pores, removing the dirts, and getting rid of dead skin cells. It contains some really beneficial nutrients, especially minerals, such as zinc, that have a positive impact on your acne.(quote from a website I can't link to because it's blacklisted on Wikipedia... whatever)

Map
Does anyone understand what "This map is consistent with incomplete set of data too as long as the top producer is known" actually means? It does not make a great deal of sense to me. Also data should not be published if it is incomplete. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.127.176 (talk) 21:50, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Medicinal uses
The following copied from my talk page for wider audience:

I can see how the image I put on there may be considered spammy and a couple of references unreliable and I have therefore removed them, but I refuse to remove the mention of medical benefits with the reference to about.com. On there website, they link to the follwing research:

Sources

Abdel-Wahhab MA, Nada SA, Farag IM, et al. Potential protective effect of HSCAS and bentonite against dietary aflatoxicosis in rat: with special reference to chromosomal aberrations. Nat Toxins.1998; 6:211-218.

Ducrotte P, Dapoigny M, Bonaz B, Siproudhis L. Symptomatic efficacy of beidellitic montmorillonite in irritable bowel syndrome: a randomized, controlled trial. Aliment Pharmacol Ther. 2005 Feb 15;21(4):435-44.

Santurio JM, Mallmann CA, Rosa AP, et al. Effect of sodium bentonite on the performance and blood variables of broiler chickens intoxicated with aflatoxins. Br Poult Sci. 1999; 40:115-119.

PDR Health. Bentonite.

Jason7825 (talk) 22:16, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Removed again. About.com is "not" a reliable source. Also the re-added link-bits to the sodium and calcium bentonite sections were pure spam (sales page of an alt. med. retail supplier). A note regarding health and/or medicinal uses would be appropriate if properly sourced. Also, note the current references were used in support of the article - they are not ext. links, rather references predating the current ref tag system. Vsmith (talk) 22:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

 * those citations don't appear to come just from about.com, for instance santurio et al is at . bentonite is used for broadly medical reasons, no doubt, and the article can include that usage without making any claims as to its efficacy. a source from the uk's national cancer institute: . (this now seems to redirect to some outsourced site, and its relationship with the national cancer institute is not clear. Mongreilf-4/4/09) its use in "colon cleansing" or acne treatments again can be noted without any claims as to its efficacy, a source only needs to say it is used and this use is widespread enough to be notable. a note regarding any known lack of efficacy, properly sourced, could also be added. i'll come back in a few days and if nothing is written here i'll edit the article accordingly--Mongreilf (talk) 13:52, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Manking/Humankind
A recent edit replaced 'mankind' with 'humankind'. I, personally, feel this is an unnecessary P.C. edit, as 'man' does not just refer to males but the human race, and hence the primary definition of 'mankind' means just that, not 'malekind'. However, I am aware that this is probably the sort of topic that there is much debate and an agreed standard on in Wikipedia, which I am happy to follow. So, what is Wikipedia's standard on this? I couldn't find it documented so if anyone was able to add it to one of those FAQ-standards-styleguide pages that would be great too. a_boardley (talk) 10:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Both OED and Webster's give the primary meaning of "man" (that is, the one listed first and prefixed with "1.") as "a human being, whether male or female," and similarly for "mankind." Presumably Special:Contributions/71.217.153.210 made the change as part of a program of changing the meaning of "mankind" to make it symmetric with "womankind," which does refer specifically to females.  If at some point in the future "mankind" comes to refer specifically to males then the change will be warranted.  In the meantime Wikipedia should not be in the business of trying to bring about or endorse language changes in response to factions promoting such changes.  --Vaughan Pratt (talk) 00:44, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

 * This argument will never be settled until there is a generally accepted gender neutral personal pronoun.
 * JamThi (talk) 01:44, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

The name 'bentonite'
Hey all, sorry I am not making this edit directly on the article...though a long-time wiki reader, I haven't really messed around editing articles yet. Maybe I'm scared to. I will someday, someday soon, but in the meanwhile, I present this information in case anyone finds it useful or wants to incorporate in the bentonite article.

My problem is with this sentence: "The absorbent clay was given the name bentonite by an American geologist sometime after its discovery in about 1890 — after the Benton Formation (a geological stratum, at one time Fort Benton) in Montana's Rock Creek area."

I'm living in Montana right now and researching a film about bentonite, so I wanted to locate "The Benton Formation." However, this sentence was unsourced, and when I contacted a historian in Fort Benton, MT, he had no knowledge of a "Benton Formation" in MT (though he knew of one in Colorado and one in Iowa). My research did turn up this source, however, the State of Wyoming Geologic Survey , which states: "Bentonite, originally known as ‘mineral soap’ or ‘soap clay’, was named ‘bentonite’ in 1898 by Wilbur C. Knight for deposits in the Benton Shale near Rock River, Wyoming" (which, to be clear, is nowhere near the Montana border).

I'm not even sure Fort Benton is/was in Montana's Rock Creek area, but in any case, since I can actually cite my source, WY Geologic Survey's info should probably replace the problematic, uncited info currently there. Sorry this talk entry is so rambling. Hey, it's my first. This is why I'm not editing the real article. Thanks for your patience. I'll hone my posting skills in time. At least I'm practicing on a fairly quiet talk page...

Duckducksquid (talk) 21:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Thanks, just noted this and changed the article w/ Wyo Geo Survey as source. Vsmith (talk) 23:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Med uses
Removed two bits - one sourced to a primary source with no mention of bentonite (see WP:SYN) and the other to a univ. publicity blurb which also did not mention bentonite. Other sources used in that section are questionable (non-WP:RS) - "www.drugs.com" and "www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com", as subject to removal. Vsmith (talk) 23:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

_______________________________

Question for Vsmith

Dr Lynda Williams and Dr Shelley Haydel of Arizona State University have been studying the medicinal qualities and effectiveness of the French green clays, which are mostly made of minerals called smectite and illite. These are antibacterial clays.

The definition of "Bentonite clay" is very vague, as the main article, itself, shows:

"Bentonite is an absorbent aluminium phyllosilicate, generally impure clay consisting mostly of montmorillonite. There are a few types of bentonites and their names depend on the dominant elements, such as K, Na, Ca, and Al. As noted in several places in the geologic literature, there are some nomenclatorial problems with the classification of bentonite clays. ...the term bentonite, as well as a similar clay called tonstein, have been used for clay beds of uncertain origin."

In fact, "Bentonite" typically refers to a wide spectrum of clays with a wide spectrum of properties (such as a variety of colours). In alternative medicine, this is more like a catch-all term for medicinal clays. The term "Bentonite" is in effect interchangeable with the term "montmorillonite". Also, "Fuller’s Earth" seems to be equivalent to "Bentonite".

 * http://www.sorptive.org/minerals/attapulgite/ says that attapulgite is also known as fuller's earth. The article also points out the difference between attapulgite and bentonite.
 * JamThi (talk) 02:54, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

So my question is, How does Vsmith know that these clays that Drs Williams and Haydel studies are not "bentonite", since a clear definition of "bentonite" doesn't even exist? Dyuku (talk) 22:26, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

 * If they meant "bentonite" they would state "bentonite". To assume they were speaking of bentonite is simple WP:OR. If you want an article about healing clays -- write one and see if it works. Vsmith (talk) 23:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

 * your first sentence is an assumption too Vsmith. many things have more than one name, and unclear terminology is common. sorting it all out (with proper sourcing) does not constitute OR. see WP:NOTOR for an essay on this topic. whether this is the case here i have no idea--Mongreilf (talk) 08:44, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Yup, they're referring specifically to two iron-rich clay minerals and since nowhere is it mentioned that bentonite is iron rich, I'm assuming they weren't talking 'bout bentonite. To make that "jump" would be completely unsupported. Vsmith (talk) 13:34, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Removed "www.drugs.com" and "www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com" sourced bits as not reliable sourced. Vsmith (talk) 00:02, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

_____________________________

In fact, bentonite has plenty of iron, often over 5% of Fe2O3.

See, http://www.syngenta.co.th/upload/mar/FullerEarth.pdf

where montmorillonite/bentonite clay is listed at 6.5% of Fe2O3. Dyuku (talk) 17:25, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

 * And ... the Handbook of Mineralogy lists montmorillonite w/ <1% Fe2O3. So, are they referring to iron rich montmorillonite/bentonite? To make that jump would be WP:SYN.
 * Your link above is to a commercial Thai site giving the specs for a product - I assume - so not a WP:RS
 * However, the source you cite does mention (further down) the use of bentonite and/or fuller's earth as absorbent materials in treatment of paraquat poisoning. So that source, or rather the cited book (Handbook of Pesticide Toxicology), would be a usable source for med use of bentonite. Vsmith (talk) 18:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I looked around the Net at various smectite clays (bentonite, montmorillonite, Fuller's earth), and there's a wide variety of iron contents. Some go as high as 10%, such as here, http://krishnamineralindustries.com/page5/page8/page8.html Your Handbook of Mineralogy example really cites the low of the range, and doesn't seem representative. But of course all this is somewhat besides the point now... I agree that the treatment of paraquat poisoning is relevant, and should be noted on the page. Regards, Dyuku (talk) 22:33, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

________________________________________________

Hi Everyone... I'm not a "wiki" guy, but I did want to add some information here ( I'm not a big fan of "truth by committee ), in case anyone actually wanted to pursue truth.

I supplied a few of the samples of clay to Arizona State University, that they used in the studies. One of the antimicrobial clays is actually a calcium bentonite with enough sodium included to give it swelling properties ( over 1% sodium ). I'm Jason Eaton, founder of Eytons' Earth, and have been researching the healing clays of the world for about 15 years. We run an eductional organization and a public outreach.

Thanks! ...edit away... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.10.97 (talk) 02:33, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

new page on healing/medicinal clays
I think I'll take advice of Vsmith, and create a separate page on healing/medicinal clays. I've been researching this subject, and there's quite a lot of material to put in there. Documented use of such clays for healing goes back to ancient times. Just about every health spa uses such clays, so a separate page is needed to reflect various uses. Clearly, there are some problems with nomenclature, that can be clarified somewhat.

After a new page is up and running, then perhaps some of the material referring specifically to bentonite clays can be copied back to bentonite page. I'll do it in the next few days. Dyuku (talk) 17:50, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Good plan as there is likely sufficient verifiable info to work from. Please avoid commercial sources and hype - stay with reliable sources. You might want to look at Geophagy as a related topic. Vsmith (talk) 19:43, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

question about "drugs.com" as valid ref
I would like to ask Vsmith and others about whether it is valid to use "drugs.com" site as a valid ref. Because my info and ref was deleted based on using "drugs.com". Well, I've done a search, and it looks like this is quite a popular site at Wikipedia...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Aen.wikipedia.org+%22drugs.com%22&btnG=Search

According to Google, this site is now used 292 times at Wikipedia! So is it valid or not? Dyuku (talk) 15:44, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Hmm... Anyway, your ref simply stated something about using bentonite magma to increase the viscosity of Calamine lotion. This so-called bentonite magma is simply a suspending agent (see ). Vsmith (talk) 03:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Is "bentonite clay" the same as "bentone clay?"
In the field of chemistry concerned with greases and lubricants, some forms of grease are described as using "bentone clay" as a thickening or gelling agent. Is this the same material as "bentonite?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.41.40.21 (talk) 18:28, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Industrial and pharmaceutical products that start with bento- contain bentonite clay, but other substances as well. Bentone clay is most likely a clay based on bentonite, but with additions. Rumiton (talk) 15:23, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Too long Thai farming
The discussion with respect to Thai farming takes up about one quarter of the actual content of this Wiki article. I think this is disproportionate and propose to edit this to a shorter note with references for the details. Gierszep (talk) 02:00, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Shortened since no comments otherwise. Gierszep (talk) 01:58, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Wrong category
Bentonite is NOT a phyllosilicate. It is a rock COMPOSED OF MINERALS BELONGING TO A CLASS OF PHYLLOSILIACTES. This is a major difference. Eudialytos (talk) 18:25, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Environmental concerns
Several Internet sites of questionable credibility reference bentonite mining as an extremely-damaging practice and warn away from clumping cat litter because of this. Something should be added about the mining of bentonite, its industry value, and its environmental impacts—be they notably high or low. Bentonite is a notable input in many industries, and so the GDP value and environmental considerations are notable whatever their magnitude. John Moser (talk) 21:59, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Radiation
I understand Bentonite is used in the long term sealing/burial of nuclear waste? Would be good to include this in the article. MikeJamesShaw (talk) 04:39, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bentonite


text:
User:Herbito

Wikipedia is great!

title: User:Herbito