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Talk:Indo people

Deepening 2010
Great article. Agree with an earlier comment by someone here stating its quality is superior to the Dutch language one (where editors cant seem to differentiate between Indo (mixed blood) and Totok (full blooded) 'Indische Nederlanders'). An overall trend not uncommon as english wiki environment boasts the highest quality contributions in the whole wide wikiworld.

Anyway I cant be bothered with working on the Dutch one (even though its my native language) and would love to make my contributions here. The current article already gives a brilliant overview, so I would like to deepen some of this articles 'chapters'. Today I have linked in a 'main' article to the 'pre-colonial' sub chapter, so we can go into more depth there.

Hoping for some native portuguese speakers to translate and contribute some portuguese info and data.

KARL RAN (talk) 18:35, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Taking a logical second step into facilitating elaboration on the topic by creating a main article on the specific colonial era: 'Indos in colonial history'.

There is much academic study (in several languages) on this era not yet reflected in wikipedia/en.

Hope to encourage editors to participate.

--KARL RAN (talk) 11:33, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Mestiço and coloured are nto just pre-colonial terms, but still used. I am not sure how widely Indo is used outside the Netherlands. Certainly I have never heard it used in New Zealand.

Restructuring_2008
Due to the many valuable 2007 contributions made by our fellow wikipedians on several of the Indo communities around the world (merci!), I restructured the article to clearly differentiate between the historical and contemporary additions. btw. The only major Indo community still missing is the one in australia (&new zealand). Regards JG It's just HIS story... (talk) 21:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Fascinating reading material. thank you! Otto

Indo's in Sumatra
From my readings,it seems that most Indos or all Indos are Dutch+JAVANESE descent. Are there any Indos in Sumatra? Do anyone know anything about Indos there? If so,where exactly are most Indos situated in Sumatra during the Dutch East Indies period? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.50.205.59 (talk • contribs)

Indo subculture
Instead of bashing the Japanese, the editor might want to provide more information on the subculture of "Indo's". we have our own flag now, we have our own customs and gave the netherlands the pasar malam and some culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christian Lebis (talk • contribs)

Can someone confirm that Erwin Koeman is indo? I never heard this before, and why isn't Ronald Koeman mentioned? (unsigned?)

Disambig
There are two 'other meanings at the top of the page - I think that deserves a disambig SatuSuro 09:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

removal bulk of article
Weird to see that someone deleted a major contribution and replaced it with this original stub?? As per comments by others this stub doesnt really add any informative data. While the article I read last had many topics of interest confirmed by many other WIKI articles. Doesnt seem constructive to me to remove it in total. How can people like myself study and enhance the article if its removed and repaced with the stub? Looks to me that disturbs the whole point of Wikipedia. Suggest the responsible editor or contributor returns the page to its previous state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.94.191.131 (talk • contribs)
 * The large addition i removed was only made a few days before i removed it - viewing the history tab will confirm this. By User:JAGO. As per my edit summary, it's because it is a major addition without 1 single reference. Again, as per my edit summary, please see WP:RS. Surely if someone can write that much they can provide citations? Also, such large one-off additions are often copy'n'paste copyright violations. None of the text should be replaced before such citations are provided - this is fundamental to wikipedia. I will notify the User:Jago. Merbabu 12:41, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Agree with the unsigned comment. The 7 feb addition by user JAGO that was removed by user Merbabu was of significant higher value then the stub status this article is returned to. I dont see the point of this kind of 'editing'. Suggest someone returns the favour. Adrian 213.160.193.50 17:00, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The 'point' of the removal is straightforward. It is based on at least two of wikipedia's 5 non-negotiable princples - not just some optional guideline. Please read WP:VERIFY, WP:NOR and WP:RS. The onus is on the WRITER to provide references. Wikipedia is to based on published reliable sources. If they can't provide it, the material shouldn't be there. Why can't the editor put such citations (preferably in-line) now rather than it being unsourced and others have to chase them later. It's about wikipedia's quality. Wikipedia is intended as a serious encyclopedia, not just any other web-site where people can write what they please. Try reading Wikipedia is failing. Note that the problem is poor (no?) referencing. Merbabu 20:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Just dropped in but would like to make the statement that wikipedia is not a encyclopedia that you purchase off the traditional bookshelf subject to conventional rules. I concur with the opinion that the whole point of wikipedia is the opportunity by the whole on line wiki community of thousands or millions even, including myself, to verify any content deliverd to the forum. We should be strict in removing non sense. But a stub is per definition non sense and we have enough of them. This is something we must take for granted. Wikipedia is living documentation under constant revision. This continued revision will eventually guarantee its data quality. This does require however that we should leave usefull material on and make it subject to revision. I have browsed the articles version mentioned in previous comments and I actually see nothing wrong with leaving it on for enhancements by others. The first person commenting on its removal appears to be interested in several topics of the article. So its likely that this is one of the people that will start potential revision of specific subjects in the article. And so Wikipedia lives on another day fullfilling its promise... Good luck with this article I hope it looks better soon. Gerry 80.120.189.158 21:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Given that it seems those in favour of re-inserting have not actually addressed the policy of verification, i will paste here the summary. Remember, this is one of only five compulsory 'policies', not an optional 'guideline'...

 * Merbabu 09:22, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks to the wikipedians that have left their comments and motivated me to continue contribution. Still convinced of the fact that I had not stated any unconventional claims that were likely to be challenged I do acknowledge the requirement of citing sources and have therefore looked up my main reading material which you can now find in the bibliography. I have also added peer reviewed academic journals and articles that should assist editors and readers alike to research or verify this wikipedia articles content in its current form and state. Pls revert to the external links. I hope the interested readers have not been deterred and will return to this topic to assist in its enhancement. Merci and Kind rgds, JAGO It's just HIS story... 01:12, 26 February 2007 (UTC) Ps. Pls feel free to contact me on my user page in case of specific questions.

Diaspora
Firstly excellent article contribution by responsible editor. It is overall well referenced and should perhaps even move away from its stub status. (Not sure yet how thats done though in Wikipedia.) To my knowledge and information I can confirm most everything covered. However believe Ive read that that are actually 6 distinctive waves identified w/rgds to the Indo Diaspora. Will try to look that up and present to editor in chief ; ) if still active in Wikipedia. Kind regards, JOHN NATHANN 18:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Well it was 5 waves afterall. Ill find something better to contribute... Krgds, JOHN NATHANN 15:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

My compliments and thanks. It is a very well done article. It does miss that fact that Indos born in Nederland are classified as Oude Nederlanders and can still be repatriated. I've just done that after living 43 years in California. Some of us didn't assimilate into local American melting pot all that well. There is also some stuff missing from the transition period after WWII. My father faought for Sukarno's opponent but Sukarno was supported by the Brits, who wanted the Dutch to lose their colonies. This is anacdotal and unsupported as it is only my vague memory of tales told by my father, who died in 1993. My uncle in Gilzen-Rijen NL, has more data but I would have to go there to get it. It should also be made clear that General MacArthur suppressed and destroyed much evidence of that period to enable the American acceptance of the Japanese surrender. The Japanese camps that the Indos were kept in, for seven years, were horrific. --Slamlander (talk) 06:24, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Some Indos have migrated to South America, primarily in the then-Dutch colony of Suriname in the 1950's, and invitations from the governments of Argentina, Brazil and Chile for about a thousand Indos resettle in communities with similar economies and climates to their former homes in Indonesia. The Indo Dutch came to South Africa and briefly a few hundred in the former Portuguese colonies of Angola and Mozambique. Indo Dutch in Africa or South America continually moved onto the Netherlands or the USA in the 1970s and '80s, but the chapter of Indo migration was that cold war allies with governments not in favor of Communism (esp. true in South Africa and Argentina). It was when Indonesians fled political and economic disorder when there was Communist party influence from independence 1949 to 1966 when Suharto began his 30-year rule as dictator of a right-wing military regime) should not be forgotten. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 05:08, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

these are all very interesting comments made and are begging for inclusion. or perhaps deepening (in sub articles) as one of the core editors suggested for 2010 efforts. on the talk page below several visitors/readers suggested to join forces and share knowledge in a more coordinated fashion. im a great believer in the strenght of wikipedia as a combines knowledge base. however as mentioned above, quality of this article can only be enhanced when we adhere to wikipedia guidelines. mainly we shld always ensure that contributions are cited and referenced along academic principles. this is indeed not the place for personal recollection and original research. that would be more appropriate for community sites (facebook) and even the (usa) indo project. so wld like to call for all those interested and proficient in the english language to read up on wikipedia rules and start smaller contributions in an attempt to form a wider team of experienced contributors that can enhance the quality of this article and related topics like the bersiap one. also sincerely hope key editors like john nathan and karl ran return to this forum. kindest regards, priscilla mathias, melbourne, australia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.134.100 (talk) 02:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

english vs dutch wiki
Hi, just dropped in from another wiki world. Wanted to let the editors of this article know they did a very nice job. This article is even better then the Dutch language one. Keep it up guys. Marcel 194.151.13.225 19:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

too many family names
"Originally, most VOC employees came to the Indies without wives. The same went for the many Dutch and German soldiers who served in the Netherland East Indies Army. Family names include: Du Perron, Fransz, van Haastert, de Grave, Knuppel, Varkevisser, Moll, La Fontaine, Berk, de Groot, Vogelsang, Hanson, Davies, Middleton, de Vries, Cohen-Stuart,etc" Including some family names to illustrate the fact that all Indo-European families in its first definition have European last names is fine. Should not try to make it a complete list that is impossible and unnecessary. Think there are too many names. The long list of famous Dutch Indos already supports that. Also the comment on the East Indies Army does not belong there. But in the next section: The KNIL is part of that. Final comment: Also believe the categories arent giving this book its cover. Etnic group in Indonesia? But only historically then, nothing about Indos in contemporary Indonesia?? If they have disappeared then why not Etn. group in Holland or America...? Sorry if I sound bitchy... I actually think this article is both comprehensive and clear in its high level overview of a long history. Warm rgds, Ms.Finesse 02:11, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Added the long awaited appropriate part for Indo citizens in Indonesia. Probably the part that was always intended to feature by the orignal topic starters. JOHN NATHANN 19:39, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

A CLASS!
This article is A class except maybe for the missing Indos in Indonesia section. Good job everybody and good luck with it. Pat —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.201.18.68 (talk) 20:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

Registration of Indos in the Netherlands.
Just checked and Indos in the Netherlands are officially registered by the Dutch CBS as citizens of foreign descent (Dutch: Allochtonen) when at least one parent is born outside the Netherlands. Interestingly enough their Eurasian status puts them in the Western category of foreign citizens. Krgds, JOHN NATHANN 18:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC) Indeed. Btw. many thanks for your contributions. Excellent work. Regards, It's just HIS story... 20:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Thought above comments actually award mentioning in the article itself. Dutch official CBS registration differentiates between citizens of the netherlands that are born in the (geographical) netherlands(called 'Autochtonen') and those born outside (called 'Allochtonen'). Although in the Netherlands the latter term is often misinterpreted as meaning 'Foreigners', both terms actually refer to Dutch citizens. More specifically the registration term 'Allochtonen' does not only refer to Dutch citizens born abroad, but also their children. Even if only 1 of the parents is born abroad their children are put in the 'Allochtonen' registration box. So for registration purposes: if one parent is Indo (not born in the Netherlands)the child is Indo. (Interestingly enough this makes the entire royal house of the Netherlands, including the queen and the crown prince, 'Allochtoon'.) Hope my contribution added value to this already great article! Wiki rules, Atilla

Renamed 'Indo people'
The article was renamed 'Indo people' to conform to a (sort of) standard ('XXX people' for ethnic groups, 'XXX language' for languages). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jorge Stolfi (talk • contribs) 12:50, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

East Timor
I have removed the folllowing statement Even in East Timor the mestizos [sic] play leading political roles (both elected presidents are mestizo). East Timor was not part of the Dutch East Indies, and of the country's two presidents, only José Ramos Horta is mestiço, Xanana Gusmão is not (although his first wife was.) Quiensabe 19:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Quick inet ref check shows that the vast majority of online articles (english, french, portuguese, indonesian language) confirms Gusmaos metizo background, as well as the wiki link you refer to: Xanana Gusmão. There is only 1 unreferenced english online article (i.e. blog) that claims otherwise. For those familiar with the ethnic Timorese physical features his mestizo roots also seem obvious. Suggest to revert. JAGO It's just HIS story... 00:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC) (Ps. Nowhere its suggested that E.Timor was ever part of the Dutch East Indies.)

List deletion
Just noticed deletion of the 'Lists of Indos' page, that was linked to this article. (?)

Well what can I say? Overzealous admins run a rampage again... The Wikipedia Achilles heal revealed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.94.191.131 (talk) 22:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Barryprima.png
The image Image:Barryprima.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --07:36, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Undiscussed removal of Eddie Van Halen
See this edit. Badagnani (talk) 21:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No discussion required concerning removal of potential WP:BLP violations, with no sources whatsoever to back up that he himself is an "Indo person." Bull dog 22:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

compliments
very comprehensive article. thank you to all contributors. regards, ray —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.70.98.245 (talk) 06:26, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

very nicely built up by knowledgable contributors. perhaps an opportunity for a collaborative portal? grts, Albert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.15.164.167 (talk) 10:09, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Guess we would need around 4 to 6 editors for that? Eric —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.232.48.204 (talk) 03:15, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Annoyed by Cultural Straitjacket
I realize that many people may disagree with me on this point, but I find the statement that "they find it hard to recognise their own cultural features" problematic. This makes the false assumption that blood and culture are identical or that one follows automatically from the other. If they don't recognize these cultural features as their own, then I would argue that by definition it's not their culture. It may be their parents' or grandparents' culture, but that really isn't the same thing. Cultural identity is fluid, especially across generations, and I see no reason to insist that Indo people or any other minority must stick to a static and stereotypical idea of "their own" culture. If they speak Dutch, live Dutch and feel Dutch, then their culture is Dutch.

Maitreya (talk) 16:13, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it does say "some find it hard" - but I take your point. But the article is a bit of mess - it takes a whole lot of opinionated academic articles and strings them all together as fact, giving us numerous dubious statements such as the one you point out. The whole thing needs a big cleanup with heavy but reasoned use of the delete and backspace keys. --Merbabu (talk) 21:48, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I do see where Maitreya's point is coming from. However the mentioned "false assumption" is not a statement in the article and his conclusion of "fluid identity over generations" drawn from that is actually well reflected in the quote and sentences that follow. The cited references actually clearly illustrate how first & second (grandparents & parents) generations as well as the third generation of indos in diaspora all have their own self-constructed understanding of their cultural features that make up their (group and/or individual) identity based on the memory, post-memory and absent memory theories as shown by the work of Prof Hirsh studies. Including these theories might be a bit too scientific for this article though. I think the point that is made ie 'without good understanding of roots/history it is hard to construct identity (especially when your identity is hybrid)' is made sufficiently clear in the text as is.

I have actually read all the academic studies cited and realise most have not been published in english yet:

Boersma, Amis, Agung Indovation, de Indische identiteit van de derde generatie. (Master thesis, Leiden University, Faculty Languages and cultures of South East Asia and Oceania, Leiden, 2003) ; De Vries, Marlene. Indisch is een gevoel, de tweede en derde generatie Indische Nederlanders. (Amsterdam University Press, 2009) ISBN 978 90 8964 125 0 ; Vos, Kirsten Indie Tabe, Opvattingen in kranten van Indische Nederlanders in Indonesië over de repatriëring (Master Thesis Media and Journalism, Erasmus University Rotterdam, Faculty of history and art, The Hague, 2007)  Radio interview with K.Vos ; Iburg, Nora “Van Pasar Malam tot I Love Indo, identiteitsconstructie en manifestatie door drie generaties Indische Nederlanders.” (Master thesis, Arnhem University, 2009, Ellessy Publishers, 2010)  ISBN 9789086601042.

They are indeed opinionated (fortunately) however none of the conclusions are contradictory. They are in fact complimentary as they take different perspectives on this complex and potentially contentious subject matter. Hybrid culture and identity can be tedious topics. However I personally find it also extremely fascinating and not just because I am part Menadonese myself (lol).

Fully agree with Merbabu that the article can do with a good clean up. Particularly as I have noticed that the Indonesian one which has borrowed quite a bit (good!) from this article has become a feature in wiki/id. As I have seen that Merbabu is a very experienced editor I hope he can be persuaded to collaborate in a joint effort of reasoned editing? --KARL RAN (talk) 13:51, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Excellent article thks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.203.115.14 (talk) 19:25, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

numbers
w/rgds to the numbers the oficial CBS numbers are quite good to count indos. they are as accurate as possible and actually (by definition) exclude the expatriate totok indies dutchmen. the adjusted (higher) numbers by nidi made in 2001 include south moluccans and totoks as well as imigrated indos. this recalc (also based on cbs data, btw) was made for financial compensation purposes due to the decennia long neglect of the dutch government w/rgd to their dutch indies population. Jhn Lng —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.132.224.81 (talk) 09:26, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Any Indo-icity fit for a gallery?
(Moved from Apdency talk page.) In the famous Indo people picture gallery I see a writer named Marion Bloem. Closer examination teaches me that her parents where Eurasian who moved to the Netherlands in 1950 after which she was born in the Netherlands. If Wilders cannot be in the Indo people article, then neither should she. The same can be said of Louis Couperus, who was Dutch-born to a mother with Eurasian roots. Wilder's comes from a similar background and is of a similar ancestry. Either include, or exclude them all. In which case some suitable Indo people have to be found to replace their images with. In the meantime, I am putting back the image of Wilders in the page of Indo people (he is also on the Dutch article in a list of famous Dutch people of Indonesian roots). I have no intentions whatsoever to remove the edits of someone else or to engage in an edit war, but I honestly believe I have a valid point here and wish for your opinion on this.
 * Kindly awaiting your reply, Mythic Writerlord (talk) 19:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello, I'd rather (again) refer to the comments I made on Talk:Geert Wilders. Please read them there. Marion Bloem's story is a very different one, not in the least because her life is intensely and openly connected with Indo life. Also note the disclaimer preceding the list in the Dutch article you mention. Apdency (talk) 19:29, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Many of the people in this list of "famous Indo's" simply have Indonesian blood, like Wilders. They do not, however, have the Indonesian nationality, most weren't born there and some are not even connected to Indonesian culture (which hardly excists, because Indonesia is made up out of hundreds of different cultures and ethnic groups on many different islands). I have read your comments on the link you gave, but I stand by my opinion. I can see no reason in which Wilders ancestry is so much different then many of these other people. And, also, Wilders is mentioned as an Indo in the Dutch article with a list of famous Indo's, and also on other wikipedia's. Mythic Writerlord (talk) 19:37, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Indonesia as a nation is not the point. The point in the mentioned discussion was: if there's an Indo background of Wilders, is that one factor (which disclosure was the result of some special research) then prominent enough to give it a place on the very top of his article? Conclusion was that it's not prominent enough for such a basic mention. But that question is also mirrored in another question: if there's an Indo background of Wilders, is that one factor (which disclosure ... etc.) then prominent enough to give Wilders a place on the top of an article on Indo people? It seems that question is being ignored here.
 * Concerning the Dutch article, I already said it contains a disclaimer. It says "Of some names, it's not sure if they belong in the list." Its talk page also very clearly reflects the controversy surrounding Wilders' ethnicity. That controversy alone is a very good reason not to give Wilders a top position here. I also think I have valid point. Apdency (talk) 09:50, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

@[User talk:Mythic Writerlord|talk]]) 19:37, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Generally, Indo's had the European status and the Dutch nationality, and not the Indonesian or the Indonesian status. Also their culture isn't authentic Indonesian either, not Javanese,Balinese,Madurese,etc, but a mix of Indonesian and colonial Dutch/European. In the colonial times they were a big Eurasian ethnic minority. In the Dutch article it doesn't say Wilders is an Indo. Its a list of people belonging or coming from the Eurasian (Indo European) ethnic group of the colonial times, and people with direct or indirect colonial Eurasian descent or roots.

Geert Wilders mother is actually of Eurasian decent, so is his grandmother,greatgrandparents,etc. I wouldn't say Wilders is an Indo, but he has Indo European or Eurasian roots. I would say Geert Wilders have Indo or Eurasian roots. Noordin28 (talk) 16:06, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

@All

I fully concur with Nrdin28 statements above. Well put.

A suggestion: The list of notable Indos should only include Indos that can be quoted acknowledging their Indo descent. If they have not done so in a public citeable statement, they dont know or dont care and in any case should not be included in the list. All the (un)likely ie disputed Indos can still be listed in this list anyway: List of Dutch Indos (or this1: List of Indonesian Indos). --Ms.Finesse (talk) 06:43, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with that. Apdency (talk) 09:51, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

 * With the below quote from the article itself in mind I support the a.m. suggestion made by Ms.Finesse, particularly when it concerns contemporary Indos ie living people. Please note that this would mean also excluding Van Bronkhorst from the top list. --KARL RAN (talk) 09:07, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

 * Agreement with this way of describing the issue, too. I'll replace Wilders and Van Bronckhorst with more typical Indos. Apdency (talk) 09:05, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

NEW EDITS 2012
Not sure if the latest invasive additions by newbee editor are all improvements to the article. Are there senior editors monitoring this article? Gr., Eddie C. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.96.199.57 (talk) 07:09, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Well I'll give it a shot on talkpage, which new editor fails to use I may add.

In regards to edits by user: rofteh Firstly latest amendments with regard to the images do not adhere to the consensus guidelines set out above. overall redistribution of images does not seem to be a great improvement. my personal cosmetic opinion.

many of his refs are bare urls, dead links and/or opinion blogs that equally often do not even reference his edits.

he never gives descriptions of his edits.

Insisting on adding south african boers into this article seems purely speculative and is original research and pov that shld be removed quickly.

moreover sr.editors or admins shld take some time to educate new editor -rofteh- on wiki policies.

Gr., Eddie C. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.96.199.57 (talk) 02:14, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Agree with Eddie C. I'll tackle the the disregard of the WP:NOR rule, as it seems the most erroneous issue at hand. Quick check shows all so called references make no notice of any relation to Indos at all. KARL RAN (talk) 22:36, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Article rename
Should this article be renamed to Indische people or Indische Nederlanders? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwauf (talk • contribs) 13:01, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No..., Indo people is more correct. We should not confined it to certain period of time. In contemporary Indonesia it is not always means descendants of colonial Dutch East Indies, other recently mixed Indonesian-European (Caucasian) ancestry are also called Indo. Such as Tamara Bleszynski, a Sundanese (Indonesian)-Polish actress. PS: stop deleting important and interesting infos without consent just because it is not referenced.Gunkarta (talk) 15:41, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia's policy is information should be removed if it is not referenced, regardless of consent or whether you find it important or interesting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwauf (talk • contribs) 15:53, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

 * Kwauf your first remark/request shows you are not a subject matter expert as Indos are (more often then not) Indische Netherlanders, but Indische Nederlanders are not necessarily Indos (See: Totok), so pls refrain from random deletions. Your contributions may be more constructive when you educate yrself on the subject matter first.

 * Meanwhile I have considered your invasive deletions and approached them as goodwill cite requests. Best regards, KARL RAN (talk) 20:40, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

No, KARL RAN, I won't refrain if I am following Wikipedia policy. Whether I am an expert or not is irrelevant, I follow Wikipedia policy, you do not. They were constructive edits, not random deletions, your claim I should educate myself on the subject matter first is also irrelevant. I don't need to be educated on the subject to contribute to this article. The article should have citations, if you were the contributor of that information, you should have provided citations. Once again you have reverted my edits which justifiably removed content without citations. This article is not yours to control. Kwauf (talk) 08:53, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

 * The article is ours to control: All involved wikipedia editors, of which there are a few and I am just one of those involved. The issue of knowledgeable vs totally uninformed editors is this: an uninformed editor may put a cite request behind every single sentence in the article. Im sure you see where that could be problematic, or tiresome and noncosmetic at the very least. So to save us all unnecessary workloads I prefer editors to be fairly acquainted with the subject matter at hand. And more so when editors feel the need to blank whole sections. For the same reasons I am not going to blank content here: Quantum chromodynamics.

 * Anyway thank you for adding cite requests iso deleting sections and feel free to contribute and join our collaborative effort to further enhance this article. And just to be clear I might be knowledgeable about the topic, but I did not write the bulk of this article. That honour goes to other editors. I just think this article is an actual Wikipedia gem worthy of careful consideration. Best regards, KARL RAN (talk) 22:30, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

General comment
Citations for the population figures in the info box should be provided, either in the info box or in the text (preferred). If they are in the text, then it is OK to leave them without in the info box (or the lead for that matter). Otherwise, the info can be removed at any time. In the meantime, the citation request tags should remain in the info box. thanks --Merbabu (talk) 22:49, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

PS - I saw an edit summary that said this info "...is common knowledge to any Indonesian". Common knowledge is not a standard for inclusion. Any information in wikipedia needs to be verifiable, and if challenged without a reference to a reliable source, can be removed immediately. --Merbabu (talk) 23:00, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Ethnic group classification
Should the term ethnic group be used in the article? If it is to be used in the article, then there has to be citations that demonstrate that it is recognised as an ethnicity or ethnic group. Searching "Indo people", "Dutch East Indies" and ethnic, or just "Indo people" and ethnic in Google Scholar produces few results, none of which recognise it as an ethnicity or ethnic group. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22indo+people%22+%22dutch+east+indies%22+ethnic&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5 Kwauf (talk) 08:45, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks like you might have found your answer. :-)  --Merbabu (talk) 23:01, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I see the most frequently aired on "Indonesian television" the world famous people who have Indonesian ancestry .. which I know is Kristen Kreuk and Edie Van Hallen .. Indonesians always proud of it. I hope to be able to load them. ( I'm Indonesian ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.211.243.189 (talk) 14:32, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Indos in Indonesia
Lets fix this cite request. I think this is one for the Indonesian editors to find out about: '''What is the Indonesian (language) source for the statement that 1,000,000 Indonesians are of Indo descent? ->'''

Indos in Holland
And we also need to cite a source for this one: "'However researcher Dr. Peter Post of the NIOD estimates that there are between 1.5 to 2 million people with Indo blood living in the Netherlands. The Indo Dutch living abroad not counted.'" Please help out Dutch (language) Wikipedians!

Proposed Merger

 * Vote against merging. Not necessary and counterproductive. The article Indo people covers a group of people, while the other article covers a specific historical period in their history. So while the group article covers all historical time periods on a high level, the other article covers an exact time period in more depth. Cheers, Barry — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.169.251.130 (talk) 15:10, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Dont see the point in merging. See above mentioned points. Perhaps more detail from the other article can be added here. But thats about it. Warm regards, Ms.F. --Ms.Finesse (talk) 23:04, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Celebs
i don't recognize a SINGLE one of the people given as "examples" - are they supposed to be famous?

maybe in holland, but for the rest of us, how about someone a little more prominent, like Kristen Kreuk or the Van Halen brothers? 209.172.25.66 (talk) 03:40, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

My suggestion for the tag "Indo people"please put the mix in the picture actors / actris Eurasian Indonesia because too many people working artists who have Indo blood. I even saw no one single image of this article, thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.10.66.73 (talk) 15:40, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

lol, I have opinions like you .... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.193.96.153 (talk) 03:58, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Recent edits by Kwauf
Kwauf has removed sourced content from this article unilaterally and is reverting any attempt to restore it. Per WP:BRD and Content removal. I am going to revert him/her one last time, and I ask him/her to state, clearly, why this sourced content is being removed. That is your responsibility as the one proposing the controversial change. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:11, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Read the edits. Some it was not sourced, some of it was, but did not match the information in the references. One reference was a family tree, another a facebook page and a blog, which should be deleted. I added a lot of information and reorganised the page. I am replacing the information I added with references you are deleting.Kwauf (talk) 23:15, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

 * Really now? You're clearly misrepresenting the sources.
 * De Vries, Marlene. ‘’Indisch is een gevoel, de tweede en derde generatie Indische Nederlanders.’’ (Amsterdam University Press, 2009)
 * Crul, Lindo and Pang. ‘Culture, Structure and Beyond, Changing identities and social positions of immigrants and their children.’ (Het Spinhuis Publishers, 1999) ISBN 90-5589-173-8 p.41
 * Cote, Joost and Westerbeek, Loes, ‘Recalling the Indies: Colonial Culture and Postcolonial Identities‘, (Askant Academic Publishers, 2005). ISBN 90-5260-119-4
 * (Dutch) Willems, Wim, ’De uittocht uit Indie 1945–1995’ (Uitgeverij Bert Bakker, Amsterdam, 2001) ISBN 90-351-2361-1
 * Dictionary of the modern politics of South-East Asia, pg. 115, Michael Leifer, Taylor & Francis, 2001

 * These are all from Contemporary history (20th and 21st century), which you removed, and sure as hell are not blogs. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:19, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This is a bit better, but you are changing the definition unilaterally, which is, again, a no-no. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:23, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

That was a mistake. But there is nothing wrong with what I just did.Kwauf (talk) 23:28, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Some comments...

 * I've never been convinced that the article should be called "Indo (people)". This is an Indonesian term, and its usage is to my understanding as slang. Perhaps it is also a Dutch term, but either way, it is not English, and en wikipedia should be based on English terminology. The article should refer to them as Indonesian-Eurasians (and after the first sentence, just Eurasians) or something using mixed. I get that "Indo" is more convenient, but it still doesn't get around the fact that it's usage is not English, but Indonesian (and Dutch?).
 * The lead is limited to the definition to Dutch points of view. The Indonesian term "info" applies to anyone mixed Indonesian-"bule" person. The article does mention those of Indonesian-Australian/US/UK/etc mixed parentage - which are probably being born in greater numbers now than Dutch. The lead should be modified to cater for this broader scope. --Merbabu (talk) 21:24, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

"Mostly Dutch Citizens..."?? - followed by a swamp of citations
This sentence:
 * Most are Dutch citizens and have great variety of combinations of diverse European and Asian ancestries.

- - - - - -

...makes claims that would be pretty fundamental to this article - i.e., most "indos" are Dutch citizens. Yet I can't find that claim in any of the 1/2 dozen references provided. Can somebody assist? It would be better to have a single clear reference than having the article swamped with numerous references in the apparent attempt to make something look legitimate. --Merbabu (talk) 00:02, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

To Wikipidia : Very Nice and Thank you for Wikipidia  the information about "Indo People" of the Dutch-Indonesian descent. I am Indonesian surprised and proud that so many famous people in the world who have a background Indonesia. This is really interesting information. no one wrong Wikipidia This article contains the information about the "Indo People" just like in Indonesia are still using the term "Indo" to mixed blood Indonesian- Dutch / Eroupean.by" Rianty W"  from Indonesia.

Downgrade
Wow, this used to be the best article on the subject matter. Sorry to see its turned to real sh*te. I guess the originators moved on... and lack of ownership by active editors results in the deletion of all sorts of solid info and the addition of rubbish... Suggest this article to be officially downgraded. Pity... Good thing the Indonesian language copy holds up... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.85.228.254 (talk) 00:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

This is article interesting history, but there are in the edit as an example Related ethnic groups: Dutch people, of the European peoples and Indonesian peoples this is correct, but there are added Afrikaners [6] .. this is very funny hmmm

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I found the link http://www.buitenkampers.nl/buitenkampers/application/index.html#/home ...many of the events they have experienced and talked back in those days.thank you ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.194.97.141 (talk) 00:37, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

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Indo as a slur
'Indo' was a slur in the Dutch East Indies and the term Indo-European might be more appropriate to use as the header of this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.214.160.134 (talk) 19:04, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

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CHAPTER: Immigration from the Dutch East Indies (1945-1965)
Writing is messy. Probably too many diff. editors. Someone shld sort this out. Regards, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.24.233.131 (talk • contribs) 26 apr 2018 19:55 (UTC)

DISAGREE: Edits to broaden the definition made by brouwers
This is in fact confusing the topic, as is is not at all what is meant here. The prefix 'Indo' may be derived from the word 'Indus', but the article's topic 'Indo people' is very much focused on the Eurasian people of mixed Indonesian and European heritage. Not Indian - European. etc. Please revert. Regards, Danny — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.107.84.45 (talk) 15:56, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism
Hi. I recently opened wikipedia & opened this page. When I found someone tried to do vandalism Ppi4566 (talk) 12:18, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Integration to Indo-Chinese subcultures?
Hi there. I find the sentence "Most upper and middle class Indo's seem to have integrated into Christian Indo-Chinese subcultures" (the forth paragraph from the bottom of the article) quite interesting, but I think it needs to be verified. I put the for the mean time to attract attention to it. Thanks, Naval Scene (talk) 14:41, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I find the claim to be quite significant (if correct), but without source quite untenable. I have removed it with some other unsourced text. –Austronesier (talk) 17:29, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * thank you. Rgds, Naval Scene (talk) 03:16, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Intermarriage Numbers & Modern Reparations Policies.
The article states that 2nd Gen Immigrants had a 80% rate of marriage to Native Dutch. though since the actual numbers of Eurasians is only listed as "estimates", we have no real source on numbers, though the general trend would have been high. Since the Dutch Census doesn't count race, it could be anywhere from 100k to the articles claim of 1-3 million.

Scholarship weeps at such inaccuracies due to Government censorship.

While the older generations were strongly pressured to assimilate into the White Dutch population: eg, no "White", no "non-White", only "Dutch" ; the recent EU (and American) "trend" is towards massive (the California legislature is suggesting $5 million US per person!) economic rewards/reparations towards "Visible Minorities", so People of Mixed-Race Ancestry have increasing reason to identify as such (ESPECIALLY if they don't look visibly diverse). And since there is a government necessity to find out how much funding will have to be distributed, there will be pressure to finally publish the Non-White numbers, which when compared to the total Census figures, will give White numbers.

Perhaps by 2030?

The current Dutch Monarch has apologized to the people of the former colonies & iirc, reparations have openly started flowing to these nations, while hundreds of thousands of refugees from these former colonies (& even nations NOT colonized by the Dutch!) enter Holland Each year, there is the making of a Demographic/Economic Catastrophe. Reparations for 5 million people? Ten million? One million Euros per person?2603:7080:CB3F:5032:8954:43A9:1656:D57E (talk) 23:32, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Population estimates
, since you restored the population estimates that I'd replaced, could you help me understand where in the sources they're supported? The LA Times source states that 100,000 Indo people live in LA, not in the whole US. Can you help me understand if the other figures you restored are supported by the sources cited? Cordless Larry (talk) 13:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Since there's been no response here, I'm going to revert this restoration. Cordless Larry (talk) 06:48, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Done, sources and references are provided, especially since 1.5 million plus is provided by NIOD's source. Jeremy Kusumatmadja (talk) 09:34, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see how your sources support the figure, . They seem to be suggesting that there are approximately 1.7 million Indonesians in the Netherlands, not 1.7 million Indo people. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:40, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Indo people


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/3done

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Sjakkalle (Check!)  13:26, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

3done
Now this is advertising if I ever saw it. Even includes contact information. Delete. — J I P | Talk 06:42, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It did include contact information. Delete advertisement.  Postdlf 06:49, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, blatent advertisement. (Hey, I need something to do with my time; why not waste it? ;-) --Theaterfreak64 17:50, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete this is a speedy if i ever saw one. --jonasaurus 21:15, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete. Let's be real here.  jg325   *talk*  21:26, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/3done


text: User talk:84.154.127.251

title: User talk:84.154.127.251


text:
Gabriel's Fire

Gabriel's Fire is an American crime drama television series created by Donald R. Boyle, Coleman Luck and Jacqueline Zambrano that ran on ABC from September 12, 1990, to June 6, 1991, in the United States during the 1990–91 television season. A revamped version of the series, entitled Pros and Cons, aired briefly the following season.

Overview
The main character, Gabriel Bird, was played by James Earl Jones. He was a former Chicago police officer who, over twenty years prior, had been wrongfully sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of a fellow police officer. In fact, he shot the officer to protect a defenseless mother and child whom the officer was about to murder in cold blood during a 1969 police raid. Unbeknownst to Bird, the raid had been merely a pretext for the police to attack the members of a militant black nationalist organization.

This incident in the character's background was inspired by the 1969 death of Black Panther Party leader Fred Hampton, who was shot and killed during a raid upon his residence conducted by Chicago police and other law enforcement personnel. On the show, the street on which the raid involving Bird had occurred was identified as "Hampton Street".

After serving about twenty years in prison, a human rights lawyer decides to work for his release as his testimony is needed in another case. At first, Bird opposes any attempts to release him, as he became accustomed to life in prison, but after his release takes place against his will, he begins to get used to life as a free person and uses his time away from prison to help other people who are wronged by society or the authorities.

When Bird is released, he starts working as a private detective, hired by the lawyer who had helped free him.

Pros and Cons
Pros and Cons ran on ABC from September 26, 1991, to January 2, 1992, in the United States during the 1991–92 television season. It is a revamped, more lighthearted version of Gabriel's Fire. Jones and Sinclair reprised their roles as Gabriel and Josephine.

Characters

 * James Earl Jones as Gabriel Bird
 * Laila Robins as Victoria Heller
 * Brian K. Grant as Jamil Duke
 * Dylan Walsh as Louis Klein
 * Madge Sinclair as 	"Empress" Josephine Austin

Awards

 * James Earl Jones
 * Emmy Award for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Drama Series (1991)
 * Image Award for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Drama Series, Mini-Series or Television Movie (1993)
 * Madge Sinclair
 * Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series (1991)
 * David Opatoshu
 * Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama Series (1991); playing Max Goldstein in the episode "A Prayer for the Goldsteins"

title: Gabriel's Fire


text:
Talk:Fighting machine (The War of the Worlds)

Comments
If Half-Life 2 is to be included then I would suggest a section on John Christopher's Tripods be included, since they are even closer to those described by Wells.

We need more info and good pics!
 * Dunno...someone could throw in this picture I found. Thunderbrand 05:24, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

I know where the sound of the horns from the tripods in Spielberg's film can be heard (as a link or uploaded). Could that be something that useful to the article? By the way, the article makes mention of an illustration that Wells vehemently hated. But does anyone have this image available for us to see for ourselves? --Bacteria 15:38, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the tripod horn sound could be linked in the article. I can't find a drawing of the Warwick Goble tripods on the internet, but I'll keep looking. I've only seen his drawings in a book I've been reading called The Complete War of the Worlds. Thunderbrand 16:35, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I did find this drawing. Also, I think the article name sould be changed to Tripod (War of the Worlds) instead of Martian Tripod. Since the ones in the new movie aren't from Mars, its kind of sending a mixed signal. Thunderbrand 17:16, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

Here is the direct link to the tripod horn. I'm not familiar enough to be trusted with the uploading process. I also agree that the article title should be changed because not every version of the story uses Martians. By the way, I was thinking that with all of these War of the Worlds related articles springing up, couldn't there be a War of the Worlds category? I ask because it's another one of those things that I haven't learned how to do yet (although I bet it's embarassingly simple). --Bacteria 14:22, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and moved the article and created a . Also, I think the sound file has to be an .ogg file to upload. I have no idea how to do that, so maybe just link it under an ==External links== section. Thunderbrand 15:14, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

In the book, the tripod only had one Martian as a pilot, while the movie tripods apparently require a crew of 26.

It wasn't explicitly specified in the 2005 movie that a tripod only had one pilot, although there was only one Martian shown travelling down a lightning. However, it was mentioned that there were 26 lightning strikes in each spot (possibly hinting that each lightning transported one Martian?) --RicoStaCruz 07:36, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

I've added the link that the above user Bacteria gave to the article. It is located in the section about the 2005 film. Scorpionman 19:56, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Crysis Exo-suit?
Needs to be removed, it as zero to do with tripods. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.152.62.14 (talk) 18:04, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

bad picture
I think, like Wells, that the first picture on this page stinks. I can't even make it out! There needs to be a better tripod picture in place of this one. Scorpionman 01:18, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Picture
I think we need a new picture of the 2005 tripods. I do like that image (it gives a feeling that the tripods are there and you can't do anything), but you can barely see them.- JustPhil 20:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Reference to the original novel
The article is missing the most pertinent reference of all: to Wells' original novel. I suggest the inclusion of quotes from the narrator about the tripods from Wells' War of the Worlds. For example, as the narrator first sees a tripod, on Maybury Hill:

"And this Thing I saw! How can I describe it? A monstrous tripod, higher than many houses, striding over the young pine trees and smashing them aside in its career— a walking engine of glittering metal, striding now across the heather, articulate ropes of steel dangling from it, and the clattering tumult of its passage mingling with the riot of the thunder." [45, WOTW, Modern Library, Random House, 2002]

Also perhaps a note on the reason Wells gave for the unusual method of walking transport:

"And of their appliances, perhaps nothing is more wonderful to Man than the curious fact that what is the dominant feature of almost all human devices in mechanism is absent— the wheel is absent; among all the things they brought to earth there is no trace or suggestion of their use of wheels. One would have at least have expected it in locomotion. And in this connection it is curious to remark that even on this earth Nature has never hit upon the wheel, or has preferred other expedients to its innovation." [129, WOTW, Modern Library, Random House, 2002]

The tripods in the novel are, in fact, an ingenious metaphorical shorthand for the intellectual remoteness of the Martians from man. It is ironic therefore that the demands of an ill-thought out contemporary 'realism' has debarred the tripods from appearing in science fiction adaptations of Wells' book-- until Spielberg's movie. The alien tripods have been considered too alien, and at the same time too uncannily naturalistic, to be employed by filmmakers as a fantastic method of transport for contemporary film audiences.

--Gareth Griffiths, 1st March 2006
 * Wikiquote is for quotes, not Wikipedia. Thunderbrand 20:08, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Alteration of title; and reflection on use of quotes
Searching Wikipedia I find that the search 'tripods' does not immediately bring up this reference; we are instead directed to the John Christopher section. This seems strange, given that Wells' tripods precede and inspire Christopher's own; I suggest that the title for this entry be changed to 'Tripods (War of the Worlds)'? Or at the very least a link be placed on that entry to this one.

As for Wikiquote being for quotes, it seems plain wrong that in an article about Wells' tripods there is no reference to the original text, where, after all, the tripods were first dreamt up. But there we are; if it's a rule, it's a rule. But if it is a rule, then it seems to me that the quote from Wells in the article about Goble's illustrations should be removed too: which would be a great shame, in fact, because it's one of the most interesting aspects of the piece. Some direction here would be welcome.

Can I ask for a reference for that quote from the article author? It's fascinating. I could discuss a (very minor) mistake of fact in an overall interesting piece too, and suggest some information that might be usefully added, too.

Humans: Not just fertilizer anymore!
I may be mistaken, but at one point in the movie, "War of the Worlds", I observed that the tripode appeared to be "Eating" humans out of the basket. It had an organic-looking "mouth" on the underside leading me to believe that the tripods were organic as well as mechanical.

Can anything be added to this? Nothing in this article mentions any of the above.

Suggesting move (2006)

 * The following discussion is closed. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I'd like to put it to a consensus for moving the article to fighting-machine. The reasoning is that this is predominately what Wells (and his narrator) call the machines throughout the book. The term is used at least 17 times (yes, I counted!) while "tripod" is actually used only 8 times in total. Hell, the application of the generic "Thing" (note the captialisation) is more on par with the usage of "fighting-machine". Agree or disagree? --Bacteria 12:43, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Disagree. I believe that "Tripod" is a more common term, especially in later adaptations. Andy120290 19:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Also note that heart attack is a more common term, but that redirects to the less common myocardial infarction. Additionally, the head and bulk of this article concerns the machines that Wells created in the book while the material on the adapated versions are supplemental. I also find "fighting-machine" to be more generic; "tripod" is a bit prejudice towards the floating and six-legged machines of two adaptations (or any other anomalies I'm missing). I'm still waiting for a concrete concensus on this, but am also adamant on the naming issue as I think the title as is gives a wrong impression in regards to the original novel. --Bacteria 21:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

"Dish cover"
Tripods in the books are described as a "Thing like a dish cover". I have never seen anything like that in film. I've seen one that looked like a huge beetle, and a swan- shaped one, but never one like a dish cover.

Could use different picture
Would it be possible to use a different picture next to the lead? The current one (Image:War of the worlds illustration pearson.jpg) does not seem appropriate. Wells himself stated he hated Goble's tripods, so why is it that that picture is the first one seen? Andy120290 04:13, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:WOTW 9.jpg
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I think the title is wrong
I think that the title of the article should be "Fighting-machine" instead of "Tripod (The War of the Worlds)

--¡Brandon was here! 20:26, 25 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brany321 (talk • contribs)

Requested move (2012)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Jenks24 (talk) 04:44, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Tripod (The War of the Worlds) → Tripod (War of the Worlds) – Removing the article The for consistency with Martian (War of the Worlds). Both articles' topics are character elements that span a range of derivative titles that share only "War of the Worlds" in their titles: "H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds", "War of the Worlds 2", and simply "War of the Worlds". This proposed move follows on the one made at Talk:Martian_(War_of_the_Worlds). ENeville (talk) 01:32, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Support shorter title. 70.49.124.225 (talk) 08:52, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose; the original title used "the", so it's fine as-is. Powers T 20:32, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose, keep original title as a common name, Move Martian (War of the Worlds) for consistency with this title. (What if a less similar derivative comes along? Should we continue to trim the qualifier to only the common letters/ordering? Reduction to absurdity, I know.) -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:38, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Same logic as Talk:Martian (War of the Worlds). If that move does not occur then I'll revisit this. Andrewa (talk) 15:41, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move (2013)

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved: Tripod (The War of the Worlds) → Fighting machine (The War of the Worlds) Prhartcom (talk) 17:00, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Tripod (The War of the Worlds) → Fighting machine (The War of the Worlds) Fighting-machine – Propose renaming this article to Fighting-machine to be consistent with Flying-machine and Handling-machine. In his text, Wells describes it as a tripod but refers to it as a fighting machine. Note that we may have to modify the unrelated redirect of fighting machine. Prhartcom (talk) 04:19, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose "fighting-machine" without disambiguator and "flying-machine" should be renamed to something else. "Fighting-machine" and "fighting machine" mean genericly, the military of a country, or specifically, a tank or other armored fighting vehicle ; you should use Fighting-machine (The War of the Worlds) if you move this. -- 65.94.78.70 (talk) 07:00, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * fighting machine (The War of the Worlds) is also acceptable to me. -- 65.94.78.70 (talk) 04:26, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose (withdrawn following amendment to proposal 18:20, 1 December 2013 (UTC)). In my copy (Pan, 1975), a quick scan shows Wells referring to it as a "Fighting Machine" (capitalised, no hyphen - p. 171). Unless other editions differ or Wells' editor varies his grammar, the primary article should be moved to Fighting Machine (The War of the Worlds) and others should redirect to it. FYI I also find in there "Handling Machine" (pp. 177 ff.) but cannot quickly find the flying variety. No sign of any hyphens for the "Machines", just for the Heat-Ray. It is abundantly clear that Wells or his Editor used the terms and grammatical forms current at the time, and the exact word forms used have no encyclopedic status. Some Wells fan has got everything in a muddle and it all needs a dose of good, strong daylight to clear it up. 13:56, 30 November 2013 (UTC)— Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk)
 * I've tracked down a scan of the first edition, and confusingly enough, it uses the forms "Fighting Machine", "Handling Machine" and "flying-machine" (the latter on page 284). —Flax5 15:07, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That paragraph is on p. 180 of my Pan edition. It differs in that it lacks a hyphen as well as capitals, being just plain "flying machine". — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 16:41, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Restated proposal:
 * I agree with those who suggest this article should be renamed to "Fighting machine (The War of the Worlds)" and rename the other two articles to "Flying machine (The War of the Worlds)" and "Handling machine (The War of the Worlds). If you agree to this, please give your support in the discussion below, and I will be glad to rework the proposed move request and handle the moves themselves. Note: Of course the "F" of "Fighting" and the "m" of "machine" would be upper and lower case respectively like any Wikipedia article title. That was a good idea about removing the hyphen for all three as Wells did not use it. If necessary we can post a hatnote at the top of the article for any non-War of the Worlds articles. I will post a similar statement on the other two article title discussions. Cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 00:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Support modified proposal by Prhartcom. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 09:43, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose as per the other two !voters. Red Slash 05:53, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Steelpillow. Red Slash, sorry, I cannot tell if you oppose the clarified restating of the proposal above starting with "I agree with those..." or the original proposal (from which we have moved on and no longer support). I am agreeable to hear everyone's opinions; I hope to hear from IP editors 65.94.78.70 and 186.206.68.99 also. Does everyone support the more sensible restated proposal? Flax5, GraemeLeggett, and 220, what do you think? Prhartcom (talk) 16:01, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment – I'm most inclined to support Prhartcom's modified proposal, with one caveat – wouldn't it be more appropriate to capitalise the names, as in the source text? Wells appears to treat the machines as proper nouns, which would seem to support moving to Fighting Machine (The War of the Worlds) and Handling Machine (The War of the Worlds), as initially suggested by Steelpillow. —Flax5 16:11, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Red Slash's comment was on the original proposal, as indicated by the lack of indent (before I made my indented comment above it). Wikipedia generally only capitalises the first word, unless the title is a proper name or similar. Here, as I said earlier, there is no significance and it is a matter of editorial style - so we run with Wikipedia's (just as the Pan's edition differs occasionally from the First Edition. None of this is Wells' personal style, it is all editorial). — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 17:15, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, I remove my opposition to the new proposed title and have retitled the move request accordingly. I now vote neutral. Red Slash 18:05, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for that bit of housekeeping! Prhartcom (talk) 18:28, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that there's no great significance to the capitalisation, but even allowing that it wasn't Wells's choice, wouldn't it be more historically accurate to defer to the spelling used in the first edition? "Fighting Machine" and "Handling Machine" are capitalised in running text, which WP:LOWERCASE specifically cites as a reason to capitalise a word in an article title. Remember, this isn't just a generic "fighting machine" subject to real-world grammatical standardisation, but a very specific fictional concept known as a "Fighting Machine", with its own proper noun status within the story. A precedent would be the Doctor (Doctor Who) article, which consistently capitalises the word "Doctor", per its source text. —Flax5 18:44, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

 * Comment my preference is for the uncapitalized form with "(The War of the Worlds)" disambiguator attached. I also do not see the attachment with the usage in the first edition, as we do use modern tertiary sources in preference to original primary sources, per WP:RS and WP:UCN in determining the current modern usage for topics. However, I will lodge a neutral on the restated proposal "Fighting Machine (The War of the Worlds)". -- 65.94.78.70 (talk) 04:12, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

""
The usage of and flying machine is under discussion, see talk:flying-machine. "flying machine" is currently used for a real world aeronautical topic. "Flying-machine" is a science fiction topic. -- 65.94.78.70 (talk) 07:14, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

""
The usage of and handling machine is under discussion, see talk:handling-machine. "handling-machine" is currently a science fiction topic. -- 65.94.78.70 (talk) 07:27, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Confusing Hunters with Hunters
I think this sentence is confusing: "Creatures and machines similar to the fighting machines are featured in many video games, such as the Striders from Half-Life 2[17] and their companions, the Hunters from Crysis and its sequels and spin-offs"

There is a three legged Hunter in both Crysis and Half-life 2 Episode Two, the latter is a companion of the Striders in the final battle (nowhere else actually, AFAIK). So, it's a bit confusing, because when I read "and their companions, the Hunters", I assume it's talking about the companions of the Striders called Hunters. 80.98.184.139 (talk) 17:55, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Lead image
Which should be the lead image?

My personal preference is B, but more than happy to let others have a vote. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 13:43, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Wells' opinion of Warwick Goble illustrations?
This article claimed in an image caption that Warwick Goble's illustrations were "personally criticized and disowned by H.G. Wells" and a recent edit added similar claims to the body of the article. The recent edit summary quotes a section of the novel which appears to be frequently referred to as a reflection of Wells' opinion of these illustrations. Several previous comments on this talk page reference Wells supposedly hating these illustrations.

The article provides no source Wells' opinion of the illustrations. In trying to find one, I came across this book, which appears to describe part of the novel as a critique of the illustrations, but also quotes Wells later describing them as "done very well by Mr Warwick Goble" and says he agreed to their use in a new edition of the book.

The claim that Wells disliked the illustrations and the claim that the section of the novel is a reference to that dislike both appear to be quite widespread, but they need a suitable source, and if he later called them "done very well" that would also need to be reflected. AKiwiDeerPin (talk) 01:36, 1 September 2023 (UTC)


text:
Yorkshire Tea

Yorkshire Tea is a black tea blend produced by the Bettys & Taylors Group since 1977. It became the best-selling tea brand in Britain in 2019. In 1886 Charles Edward Taylor Founded CE Taylor & Co., later shortened to "Taylors", the company was purchased by 'Betty's Tea Rooms' which today forms Bettys & Taylors Group. Taylors of Harrogate is still based in Harrogate, Yorkshire, in the first 'Betty's' tea room.

The group is still owned by the family of Bettys' founder, Fredrick Belmont and is currently chaired by Lesley Wild. The company is one of the few remaining family tea and coffee merchants in the country, whilst competing with the British-owned PG Tips (Lipton Teas and Infusions) and Tetley (Tata), where Yorkshire Tea is now the most purchased tea brand in the UK, overtaking Twinings (a division of Associated British Foods) and Typhoo.

Products
Yorkshire Tea uses varieties of tea grown in India, Sri Lanka, and Kenya, blended to form eight blends: Yorkshire Tea, Yorkshire Decaf, Yorkshire Hardwater (available in the United Kingdom), Yorkshire Gold, Breakfast Brew, Bedtime Brew, Biscuit Brew, and Toast and Jam Brew.

In 2016 the brand launched Breakfast Brew, Breaktime Brew and the decaffeinated Bedtime Brew. Yorkshire Tea introduced Biscuit Brew, a malty flavoured tea, to its range in 2018 and Toast and Jam Brew in 2020.

History
Charles Edward Taylor and his brother created their company, CE Taylor & Co., in 1886 which was later shortened to "Taylor's". The brothers later opened "Tea Kiosks" in the Yorkshire towns of Harrogate and Ilkley, and in 1962, local tea room competitor 'Betty's' took over 'Taylor's', renamed it 'Taylors of Harrogate' and formed the Bettys & Taylors Group, which is still owned by the family of Fredrick Belmont, who founded 'Bettys Tea Rooms'. The Group now uses the 'Bettys' and 'Taylors' brands in a number of industries including Yorkshire Tea and Taylors Coffee Merchants under the 'Taylors of Harrogate' name and Bettys Tea Rooms, Bettys Cookery School and Bettys Confectionery under the 'Bettys' brand.

Yorkshire Tea as a brand was launched in 1977, originally conceived as a "Yorkshire blend for Yorkshire people". In the early days different blends were created and sold for different regions of Yorkshire where the hardness / softness of the water varied. Over time, and as the scale of the brand grew to be fully national, the product has evolved to one single blend in the standard orange-coloured pack. However, it retains a hard water variant in green-coloured packs to cater for those who live in hard water areas of the UK.

When Safeway was taken over by West Yorkshire-based Morrisons in 2004, commentators in the London press noted the amount of shelf space in one former Safeway store that was suddenly given over to Yorkshire Tea.

In 2009, the Prince of Wales granted Yorkshire Tea a Royal Warrant. The company has also sponsored ITV1's Yorkshire-based Heartbeat from 1998 to 2001.

By 2015, Yorkshire Tea was the third best-selling tea brand in Britain behind Tetley and PG Tips. By September 2017, it was the second best-selling brand behind PG Tips after having overtaken Tetley on sales in the traditional "black tea" market. In November 2019, it was revealed that Yorkshire Tea was now the number one selling brand of tea in the United Kingdom with 28% of the traditional black tea market.

Advertising and popular culture
In 2007, a new TV campaign was created using the line "Try It, You'll See", voiced by Bill Nighy. Starting in 2017, an advertising campaign featuring prominent Yorkshire celebrities in a version of the area for which they're known, such as Michael Parkinson conducting employment interviews, the Kaiser Chiefs playing the hold music for incoming telephone calls and Sean Bean giving motivational speeches to workers.

Yorkshire Gold is mentioned in the popular Showtime TV series Homeland as a favourite of protagonist Sergeant Nicholas Brody. Ian Brabbin, tea buyer at Bettys and Taylors of Harrogate said: "We were both surprised and delighted to discover that Yorkshire Gold has been given such a starring role in Homeland and are looking forward to seeing the show when it arrives on our screens here later in the year. We are no strangers to the small screen – Yorkshire Tea has also made a cameo appearance on Friends, not to mention our ever growing band of celebrity fans such as Noel Gallagher and Alan Carr."

Also on the celebrity fan list are Russell Crowe, who posted on Twitter about the beverage in 2012, and who visited Yorkshire Tea's headquarters in Harrogate whilst touring with his band. Other aficionados include Martha Reeves, who was also featured on the social media site holding Yorkshire Tea paraphernalia, and Patrick Stewart who indicated Yorkshire Gold was his favourite tea during a Reddit Ask Me Anything session.

In 2013, Yorkshire Tea entered a sponsorship agreement with the England and Wales Cricket Board of the England cricket team until October 2015. As an official supporter of the Grand Départ of the 2014 Tour de France in Yorkshire, Yorkshire Tea produced a 30g special edition sample pack rebranded as Yorkshire Thé. As well as the name change, the orange on the usual box was replaced with yellow. On the hard water variety of the special edition Yorkshire Thé packaging the band remained green.

title: Yorkshire Tea


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Gourley

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Dmcdevit·t 00:36, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Paul Gourley
Political vanity page of the president of a national student political association. Nice start to his career, but not enough for a biographical article. Calton | Talk 06:46, July 14, 2005 (UTC) [added missing phrase -- sorry! --Calton | Talk 11:07, July 14, 2005 (UTC) ]
 * Delete, leading a student club is normally not notable. Dcarrano 07:40, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non notable vanity. JamesBurns 10:01, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Gourley appears to be the chairman of a large nationwide political organization. That makes him a notable politician IMO. Sjakkalle (Check!)  12:17, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak delete. His organization is more notable than most student groups, more than many nationwide student groups, but its political-activism function does not make him a "notable politician".  The article does make a bit of claim to independent notability at the end, crediting his leadership for increased influence by the group in 2004 USA elections, but I feel this overstates the case both for the group and for Mr. Gourley.  If broader media recognition than the Reagan Award can be verified, then keep the article on the basis of that specific notability, not just because he spent time as head of a big student group.  (I had to work hard to keep my POV out of this comment.)  Barno 15:42, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. A student club leader. They'll be another one next year.  This article overstates his accomplishments and reads like a vanity page.  Gamaliel 16:41, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Dwain 20:52, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete he overstates his accomplishment. weakly autobiographical. vanity. --jonasaurus 21:16, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete he will be notable when he achieved something in mainstream politics. also vanity. Oliver Keenan 21:29, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete/Merge with College Republican National Committee. siafu 23:16, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete transitory accomplishment that is non-encyclopedic and non-notable. -Splash 01:22, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per Barno, Gamaliel, and Splash. Quale 07:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep The Collage Repullican Nat'l Committee president is a notable article. Paul3144 17:26, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. Paul Gourley leads an organization with 120 thousand members in 50 states on 1200+ college campuses, with a 17 million dollar budget in FY2004, which has directly contributed leaders to the Republican Party such as Karl Rove and sitting United States governors. A notable politician.  Joseph_T_McCarthy 01:56, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * First edit. Gamaliel 21 July 2005
 * Does this mea you now believe it should be kept Gamaliel? Since it appears that you are the one who wrote, "First edit," from the history page. If your not changing your vote then what is the point of making that statement? Dwain 22:29, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * It is common practise to make the life of the closing admin that little bit easier. See WP:VFD and WP:GVFD which says that votes from new users may be discounted and that it is sufficent to mark their edits as such (rather than call them sockpuppets etc). I see no implication that Gamaliel means to vote keep by this edit. -Splash 22:58, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Why on earth would you think the words "first edit" meant I wanted to change my vote? Gamaliel 07:05, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Very STRONG Keep This is ridiculous. This is the latest of a string of College Republican articles to be deleted. This national organizations IS notable and therefore its leadership and prominent state federations ARE notable. If the accomplishments of people like Mr. Gourley don't speak for themselves I am not sure what would. Why is this level of scrutiny being applied only to GOP groups? I don't see any push to remove the article on Scott Peterson or other trash articles like the one on Jennifer Wilbanks, which are definitely NOT encyclopediac. If anyone outside of the arrogant cybernerds with the audacity to label the College Republicans simply "a student group" saw the incredible influence they have on Republican politics as noted and the high-profile nature of the campaign to elect their leaders (i.e. Gourley's) nature of College Republicans do, they'd be as appalled as I am. Get some perspective and knowledge. nywalton 23:23, 23 July 2005 (UTC) vote actually by 66.30.36.200
 * Do you think insulting people is an effective way to change people's minds? Gamaliel 01:28, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Sir, the gentleman from NY has a point. That Mr. Gourley's article would even be considered for deletion considering the sheer size of the College Republican organization is evidence enough that certain individuals are trolling on wikipedia, throwing their weight around to try to knock off legitimate articles.  Not only should the article be kept, but there shouldn't even need to be debate on this. Joseph_T_McCarthy 11:37, 23 July 2005
 * Or it is evidence that certain individuals have a difference of opinion about what constitutes a legitimate subject for a Wikipedia article. Gamaliel 04:08, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mike Dugas

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 05:48, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Mike Dugas
Political vanity bio of a failed congressional candidate. Delete. Calton | Talk 06:46, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, plenty young enough to make it one day but running for the House and failing isn't enough yet. Dcarrano 07:48, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non notable vanity. JamesBurns 10:01, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep--major party nominees for national legislatures are encyclopedic. Wikipedia is not paper. Meelar (talk) 14:18, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, per Meelar. Wikipedia is not a popularity contest. Kappa 14:41, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, insufficiently notable. Just in the USA there are 435 losing "major party nominees for national legislature" every two years.  Multiply a few hundred losing candidates by 150 or so countries with national legislatures, and we'll soon create PoliticalWannabeWiki.  Wikipedia is not a forum for advancing oneself in a popularity contest.  Barno 15:50, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Correction: 468 or 469 such people every two years in the USA.  Barno 00:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Insignificant failed minor candidate. Reads like a vanity page. Gamaliel 16:41, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Failed minor candidate. --Carnildo 20:14, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Dwain 20:53, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete insignificant. was not a hotly contested race. he was a token candidate. as such, non notable and delete. --jonasaurus 21:17, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete NN. Oliver Keenan 21:29, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but Rewrite -- currently unsources/POV, e.g. unsourced statement: "Political analysts and State Party officals saw Dugas' 2004 run for Congress as a training zone for potential political ventures for the future." Was apparently mentioned on The Daily Show, however, in addition to being an endorsed GOP candidate, so notable. siafu 23:20, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not elected = not notable. Radiant_ >|< 08:46, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep a major party nom. for a nat'l legislature. Youngamerican 12:53, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per Barno. If he continues in politics he may become notable in the future. Quale 07:14, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep It looks like Dr. Dugas student has an axe to grind in wanting to delete this entry. If you look a little closer...Notice the individual who first started this deletion thread is a student in the Sacramento area...the same region where Professor Dugas taught Stats classes. Wiki should be an enviroment that does not cave in to angry students. 03:09, 18 July 2005 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.126.208.186 (talk • contribs)
 * Keep This man is actually a poliitcal figure among the new age of Republicans in California. I've seen him interviewed on Fox 40 News here during the election and I was impressed (even though I didn't care much for his politics). Also note that the name Mike Dugas appears in {"U.S. House election, 2004"]. He isnt really a forigen insertion into the wiki database. User:Hillary2008
 * User's ninth edit.

 * Keep. Major party candidate in a national congressional race is notable enough. Sjakkalle (Check!)  09:59, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User talk:FrozenPea

Welcome from Redwolf24
Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We as a community are glad to have you and thank you for creating a user account! Here are a few good links for newcomers:
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Yes some of the links appear a bit boring at first, but they are VERY helpful if you ever take the time to read them.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes ( Redwolf24 06:47, 14 July 2005 (UTC) ) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes ( Redwolf24 ) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome.

Redwolf24

P.S. I like messages :-P

Fair use rationale for Image:DlinkLogo.gif
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Unspecified source for Image:DlinkLogo.gif
Thanks for uploading Image:DlinkLogo.gif. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the GFDL-self-no-disclaimers tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Fair use, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following [ this link]. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 19:12, 16 May 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 19:12, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:DlinkLogo.gif
Thanks for uploading Image:DlinkLogo.gif. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read carefully the instructions at Non-free content and then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 01:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use disputed for Image:Gizor dellso.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Gizor dellso.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:09, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:FrozenPea