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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wisconsin/Archive 2

Archiving
Decided to archive the talk page, as it was well above the recommended size is 32K or smaller. That, and it was a touch too long to be useful. It is still available here, and as its template states, feel free to "revitalize" any topic, by copy/pasting here. Royalbroil 16:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Solanus Casey
I started an article about Father Solanus Casey. He was born in Pierce County, Wisconsin and Pope John Paul II declared him venerable.This means he could be canonized a saint within the Roman Catholic Church. The article was needed. I will leave it to your people if you want to include this in the WikiProject Wisconsin. Fr. Casey lived in Detroit, Michigan and died there.Thank you-RFD 14:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC) I decided to include this within the WikiProject Wisconsin.This can always be revoved.Thank you-RFD 17:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Sturtevant, Wisconsin
I think there is a copyright violation concerning the Sturtevant, Wisconsin article.I came across a website:the Western Union Junction Railroad Club & Museum and appears the section in the Sturtevant article:'Historical facts of the railroad in Sturtevant' came from that website.Both that website and the Sturtevant municipal website are at the Sturtevant article. Thank youRFD 20:58, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Nice catch... I removed the contribution from the article. You might also be interested in the Copyright problems page. Sulfur 17:43, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Again, my thanks for your response-RFD 17:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Mackville, Wisconsin-
I started an article about Mackville, Wisconsin I am familiar with Mackville. As you can tell, there is lots of history. The ancestors of Joseph McCarthy settled in the area. I will check this out to confirm this. Thank you-RFD 22:11, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Good work. Mackville is one of hundreds of small Wisconsin communities that need documentation somewhere [even if not in Wikipedia] before they pass from memory.  I learned about 2 weeks ago that there was a very lively town called Hadleyville about 3 miles west of Cleghorn that has, as long as I've lived here, been nothing more than a cemetery on the back end of the Andersons' farm.  (I know the Andersons well--I went to school with their kids...)  Cleghorn has survived, as a result of its position as political center for the Town of Pleasant Valley, but all that remains of Hadleyville is the cemetery...and from what I understand, it was already a nothing town by the 1920s.  It'd be a shame that this kind of history should be lost...  Mackville has a history all its own, and as a result of its renewed vigor because of its rôle as a new "expansion zone" for Appleton, will survive...but its story should be preserved, so I'm glad the article has been begun, but before it becomes all about its new rôle as an Appleton bedroom community, its origins should be recorded for posterity.  Same for about 1000 communities in Wisconsin.  (Hunting (in Shawano/Waupaca Co.), and White Creek (in Adams County) come to mind...two bygone communites which were crucial in the development of the Two by Twos in Wisconsin...although Hunting remains [at least as the name of a backroad] a memory at least in name in north-central Waupaca Co...about 3 miles SE from Split Rock)  Oooh...look at all those redlinks requiring articles! :-D  Tom e rtalk  08:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I've created some stubs for a few of these locations, based upon what little I could find online. --BaronLarf 18:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Walter Ristow
Hi! I started an article about Walter Ristow. He was born in La Crosse, Wisconsin and was the head librarian of the maps section of the New York Public Library and the Library of Congress. If there are any articles about Mr. Ristow from the La Crosse Tribune, etc. I will put the information in the article.Thank you-RFD 18:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Wisconsin
Many articles on Wisconsin lack photographs, so as part of a subcategorization of the requested photographs subcategory, I have created a subcat for Wisconsin and tagged it as part of this WikiProject. I have put a couple of articles in it from browsing one of the stub categories, but could clearly have added a lot more to it! Using this category would be a simple way of making a list of Wisconsin articles needing a photo - if you make or find a Wisconsin article needing a photo, you can just add to its talk page. I hope this proves useful to you! TheGrappler 04:03, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks... this category will be helpful, as I've been trying to cover the Milwaukee area. Sulfur 16:39, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Political subdivisions of Wisconsin
I just created the article Political subdivisions of Wisconsin, based on the layout of Political subdivisions of New York State and using state statutes and blue books for references. I had to find a good deal of the information the old-fashioned way (not just through easy-to-paraphrase websites), so someone who has knowledge might want to read it over to make sure I didn't screw up to badly. Cheers --BaronLarf 18:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Milwaukee Public Museum
There are a few of us working on the Milwaukee Public Museum stub. Please join in if you can help! I'll tackle The Streets of Old Milwaukee soon.DC 21:30, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Why don't we make it the current collaboration as listed on WP:WPWI? Any objections?  --BaronLarf 18:50, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Merrimac Ferry?
Is anyone familiar with enough with the Marrimac ferry to write an article about it? Was just doing some surfing and saw that there was no information about it anywhere (please correct me if I'm wrong and just couldn't find it). I'm going to list Merrimac ferry in the articles to de-redlink and hopefully we can get some good information about it. --PaddyM 02:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Merrimac Ferry History WiDOT, is that what you were looking for? --Dual Freq 03:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Exactly what I'm looking for. I'll get to writing an article on it in the next few weeks. Thanks for the help. --PaddyM 03:26, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Edits on current Wisconsin politicians
Assistance would be appreciated from the WikiProject on keeping the articles on current Wisconsin politicians unbiased and written from a neutral point of view. Specifically, Russ Feingold and Jim Sensenbrenner are both being editted pretty heavily by people who seem to have pretty strong view for or against the senator and congressman. Outside input would be appreciated so we can write the most complete, sourced and accurate articles possible. Thanks --BaronLarf 21:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * We should also be vigilant on Wisconsin gubernatorial election, 2006, Mark Green and Jim Doyle.--BaronLarf 21:08, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Radio Stations: Infobox and Article Titles
This really relates to Milwaukee radio stations, as that's what I've been working on. Anyway, I've noticed that some stations include the band in the title, and some don't. For example, the WTMJ article is WTMJ, but some are (for example) WJYI-AM. Is there a consensus on which format should be used? Any help is appreciated; I've created articles for WRRD and WFZH, and the Infoboxes don't link to the, because I've included the -FM and -AM as appropriate. Should I?DC 19:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that the names are pretty random. I myself feel that all stations should have -FM, -AM and -TV added to them, to clear things up, but I've also seen people undo my changes, moving the articles back to just Wxxx or Kxxx if the call letters were only used for one station (Not two or three, like WTMJ-TV & WTMJ-AM.)  I think the best people to talk to are the ones at WikiProject Radio Stations and WikiProject Television Stations. --BaronLarf 21:11, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the input, and the link to the Radio Station project. At this point I think I'll add redirects as needed to make sure that either usage points to the page.  Thanks again!DC 16:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Marcus Ampitheater
I started an article on the Marcus Ampitheater to compliment the Summerfest and Henry Maier Festival Park articles. Added the appropriate tags, including the Wisconsin stub notice on the main article. Expand and edit at will!DC 04:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Wisconsin communities
I have created a new meta-category, Category:Communities in Wisconsin. Please see Category talk:Communities in Wisconsin for the rationale behind its creation. --BaronLarf 17:39, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Category:Wisconsin films
Here's a fun and interesting amalgamation of films. Category:Wisconsin films. --BaronLarf 07:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I think we need to make clear in each article, what the Wisconsin connection is. If that cat showed up on one of my articles, and I had no idea why, I'd remove it. -Freekee 15:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

 * It might be interesting to broaden the scope and include other media such as TV sitcoms (That 70's Show, Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley, etc). 72.131.44.247 18:58, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Bay View Massacre
I decided to be bold and move Bay View Massacre to Bay View Tragedy, which is, at least according to my judgment, a less NPOV title. If someone wants to categorize it as a "massacre", I'm not going to fight it, but while digging through links as I was trying to write a stub for Bay View, Wisconsin, I found that the 3/7 of links referring to the event that called it the "Bay View Massacre" as opposed to the "Bay View Tragedy" were overwhelmingly labor-rights oriented, while those that were purely historical in nature overwhelmingly referred to the "event", almost exclusively, as the B~ Tragedy...leading me to believe that in historical terms, that's what the event is known as, and that it's only in POV labor-related circles that it is commonly referred to as the B~ Massacre. Commentary welcome. Tom e rtalk 07:24, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

 * My whole life I've heard it called the Bay View Massacre... I'd venture to guess that 9/10 south-side Milwaukeeans familiar with it would agree. A historical atlas from the Wisconsin Cartographer's Guild also uses that title. 72.131.44.247 17:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I certainly see Tomer's point here; but in my experience, most of the folks who don't use the term "massacre" are determined to put an artificially neutral, non-controversial glaze on the event: local and state government histories, people eager to sell books, etc. (Do you feel the term "Boston Massacre" (for example) is a PoV violation?)  I will admit, I put that up in a hurry, in part because the Wisconsin Labor History conference was coming up and I was embarassed that there was nothing in Wiki about it; but I don't know a labor historian or local historian who doesn't refer to it as the Massacre.  Certainly, it was never referred to as anything other than the Massacre at the conference, for example; nor have I ever heard a local historian refer to it by any other name.  Still, that's part of the Wiki process: like Tomer, I invite input from others on the subject.--Orange Mike 19:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can certainly see how calling it a "Tragedy" as opposed to a "Massacre" could easily be regarded as an attempt at "whitewash". I didn't want to eliminate the fact that it is frequently referred to as a Massacre, and would have no objection to including even more information about who calls it what, as long as it remains NPOV.  The fact of the matter is that "massacre" is an emotionally-laden word, which makes it potentially problematic.  I don't want to whitewash what happened, I just want to make sure the article doesn't become a platform for pontification... the thing is, "tragedy" is also emotionally-laden.  The difference is that "massacres" serve as rallying cries, tragedies generally don't.  Personally, I would have preferred "Bay View Labor Incident of 1886" as an ideally "neutral" title, but I can't find a lot in the way of google links to support my having moved it there.  :-p  Tom e rtalk  00:47, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * From massacre:The word massacre has a number of meanings, but most commonly refers to individual events of deliberate and direct mass killing, especially of noncombatant civilians. It's not really clear to me whether the people were rioting or merely protesting, but considering that records don't seemt o show that any guardsmen were injured, even after the shooting, I'd say it wasn't a particularly violent crowd. I'd say that qualifies the event as a massacre. I would like to add that, to me, "tragedy" has a connotation of randomness. The shooting was decisive and pre-ordered. -Freekee 04:09, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * By that definition, pretty much every terrorist act in the past 20+ years should be renamed "massacre". This just brings us back to what I said earlier:  the word carries specific emotional baggage.  That is, in fact, the only reason it exists.  Tom e rtalk  04:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily, because "terrorism" has a completely different connotation. The point is that most sources call this event a massacre, and the event fits the definition of the word. And "tragedy" doesn't work as well because it is less specific than "massacre". And in my opinion, neither "massacre" nor "tragedy" give a partisan connotation. So I'm not sure why it's an issue. Why don't you want it to say "massacre", again? -Freekee 04:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I see now that it's not necessarily true that "massacre" is the more common term. Though I prefer that term, I wouldn't favor it over the other, when "tragedy" is clearly more common. -Freekee 04:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I think I'll change my mind and go with that... as TShilo12 knows from a previous move debate, I'm a firm believer in the Google test. ;) The difference isn't much but "Bay View Tragedy" seems to win out over "massacre." To me "terrorist" is much more of a loaded word than "massacre" and "tragedy" ever was. 72.131.44.247 17:44, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, not to beat a dead horse...but, I think separating out massacres that are committed by terrorists as "different", is somewhat intellectually dishonest. Nothing in the above definition of "massacre" even remotely approaches addressing "motivation". The point I was making tho, in dragging the terrorist acts into the mix, is that words, especially when they deal with human interactions, have emotional baggage, and "politically motivated killings", when described using one word over another, drag that emotional baggage into the description by default. Calling the entire affair a "massacre" casts the focus onto the killings and their motivation, rather than focusing the attention on the "event" as a whole. While it's obvious that the outcome of the events of the labor uprising was a "tragedy", calling it a "massacre" (not to cheapen the seven lives lost), especially since "only" seven people were killed, casts valid doubt on the neutrality of anything else said about the event by such a source. Yeah, I concede, on the south side of Milwaukee, "everyone" may know it as a "massacre", but, without stereotyping too much, the south side of Milwaukee is hardly known as "labor-hostile" territory. :-p Now, all of that said, I'm willing to concede that some people have a really low threshhold for their definition of "massacre", since we had a huge argument about this very subject [i.e., the definition of "massacre"] several months ago on Talk:Eden Natan-Zada, where it was clarified that Category:Mass murderers sets its lower limit as "four murders in a setting". Now, obviously mass murder and massacre aren't entirely synonymous, but close enough for me to let seven deaths qualify as a "massacre", which is why I said I wouldn't raise a fuss if it were categorized as a massacre. As for the assertion that "massacre" is more specific than "tragedy", I would say "yeah, only inasmuch as it clarifies that somebodies got killed"...but that in and of itself is problematic... Not only does it shift the attention from the actual incident to the deaths, but it also carries with it the probsibility [sic] that people could take away the impression that the tragedy/massacre/whatever itself was what led to the shorter work day, rather than the work stoppage. Anyways...like I said a while back, I'd prefer to see something truly neutral like "labor incident of 1886" over either "tragedy" or "massacre", but such a title would never win in a google battle. Cheers, Tom e rtalk 04:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think this dead horse has suffered enough, so I'll just say... fair enough. :-) -Freekee 04:39, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Wisconsin music
Just created List of Wisconsin musicians. Please stop by and add links for any Wisconsin-connected artists to it or the List of bands from Wisconsin. Thanks. -Freekee 05:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Tributary river of Winnebago Pool
As I understand it, one of the several Wolf Rivers in Wisconsin drains into Lake Winnebago, as does one of the Fox Rivers. What I am having problems with is calling one of these Wolf Rivers a tributary of one of the Fox rivers. I have unilaterally changed a statement in the List of Wisconsin rivers to 'Wolf River, tributary of Winnebago Pool'. But what I really have in mind is to move Wolf River (Fox River) to Wolf River (Winnebago Pool), which would be consistent with the Winnebago Pool article. I believe the move would be useful because one could then distinguish the watershed  of the Fox which feeds the Gulf of Mexico, from the watershed of the Fox which feeds the Atlantic. Any objections? --Ancheta Wis 03:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting one... the Fox and Wolf rivers have their own basins but come together in such a way that the Wolf essentially pools before feeding in to the Fox. Is that a named Winnebago Pool? You might have a look at a previous discussion about it at Wikiproject_Rivers. I'd say go with what ever the USGS has determined, because concept of tributaries can be quite subjective... I've been itching to change a statement for the Milwaukee River about the Kinnickinnic River being a tributary. Historically that area was marshland and both the Milwaukee and Menomonee Rivers let out south of Jones Island, where the Kinnickinnic bends today. After channelization that straight cut is considered an "inner harbor" port more than the end of the Milwaukee River. 72.131.44.247 17:56, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The Wolf River feeds into the Winnebago Pool, but the Pool is not a watershed of its own, it's merely a widening of the Wolf River for Lakes Poygan and Winneconne and of the Fox River for Lakes Butte des Morts and Winnebago. While a great deal of energy could be expended regarding "which river is really a tributary of the other", the naming convention abides by the established name of the river rather than such arguments.  The Mississippi could quite easily be classified as a tributary of the Missouri, and the Missouri, so reconfigured, as a tributary of the Ohio, using various criteria by which the upper Mississippi is quite clearly a "lesser" river than either the Ohio or the Missouri.  (Notwithstanding the fact that so redefining the Mississippi would result in innumerable edit wars, doing so would quite clearly be a violation of WP:NOR...)  The only reason Winnebago Pool says that the Fox and Wolf are tributaries is because the Wolf feeds Lake Poygan and Lake Winneconne before narrowing and emptying into Lake Butte des Morts.  Technically, the Fond du Lac River is also a "tributary" of the Winnebago Pool.  I guess my main objections to the proposal are that the Winnebago Pool is a geological concept, and river naming (which dictates article naming) is a colloquial concept, and that the two rivers are "feed waters", not "tributaries", something which I've just gone and tried to clarify in the Winnebago Pool article.  My 2¢.  Tom e rtalk  05:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Just a quick addendum...I can't find anything in the initial proposal that helps distinguish the Gulf of Mexico feeder Fox River (Illinois) from the Atlantic feeder Fox River (Wisconsin) (nevermind for a moment that the Gulf of Mexico is part of the Atlantic)... I can see nothing in a discussion about the Wolf River that could help with such an effort.  Tom e rtalk  05:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * OK...an addaddendum, I just added disambignotes to the top of both of those articles in the interest of alleviating any potential confusion. Tom e rtalk  05:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Necedah Shrine: Catholic Church?
As someone who recently updated the Necedah shrine entry, I discovered that it is no longer recognised as a Catholic institution or devotional site. Therefore, should its categorisation as a "Catholic Church" be rescinded?

User Calibanu 09.19, 30 May 2006
 * Are you referring to the category "Catholic church stubs"? If so, I went ahead and removed that notice since the article is no longer a stub. HollyAm 21:45, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

 * In a general sense, something might qualify as an example of X if it once was, even thought it no longer is. For example, we claim Steve Miller as a Wisconsin musician, even though he hasn't lived here in decades, because he was born and raised here, and learned how to play the guitar here. -Freekee 05:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The site is affilated with "Old Catholic" according to the article, so I think Catholic would still apply. Royalbroil 04:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Steven Avery
I urge a WikiProject member to write articles about Teresa Halbach and Brendan Dassey. I would do it myself, but unfortunately I must claim interest since Halbach was a somewhat distant relative of mine (around second or third cousin). I doubt I could remain objective for obvious reasons. Thanks! Royalbroil 04:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * User:Bdman has said that he will honor my request. --Royalbroil 14:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Are Teresa Halbach and Brendan Dassey notable enough outside of the Halbach murder to warrant articles outside of the one on Steven Avery? --BaronLarf 22:34, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I doubt either of them would survive AFD, personally.--Dhartung | Talk 03:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Images of Wisconsin
I have taken around a dozen images from different locales in Wisconsin recently. Several of the pictures were relatively boring pictures of a downtown/business district. Do you think that I should include them in the Images of Wisconsin category? What should be the criteria for inclusion in that category? Royalbroil 19:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Feel free to place images in the category so long as they are indeed of something in Wisconsin and are images under a free license (i.e. not claiming fair use). HollyAm 01:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Barre Mills, Wisconsin
I started an article about Barre Mills, Wisconsin. In fact, I expanded the article. However, there was some question about the article whether, it should be in Wikipedia. I try explaining that this is a part of WikiProject Wisconsin. Help!!!! There may be a possibility the Barre Mills, Wisconsin article could be deleted, merged, etc. Thank you-RFD 12:06, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

 * It looks like a good stub and sounds more notable than many incorporated communities. As a real existing place, it is not likely to garner a consensus to be deleted. The article should be fine. HollyAm 22:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

History buff needed
Please check out List of current and former capital cities in the United States and make sure that Wisconsin's capital cities are listed accurately. A word of warning: the page does contain quite a bit of complicated wiki formatting, so if you're not comfortable editing it, just post your changes on the talk page and someone more experienced will apply them to the article. JEK   19:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks good... I added the year for the territorial legislature's first session in Belmont. Looks like an article was recently written about Wisconsin's First Capitol Historic Site too. 72.131.44.247 04:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I was just about to add information on Burlington, Iowa when Jonathan Kovaciny beat me to it. I think Wisconsin's entry should be complete now. --BaronLarf 15:25, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Nominate articles for Portal:United States
I've worked for the past month to update Portal:United States and keep it better maintained. Though, I think the Portal:United States would be even better with broader participation. One way to do that is instead of choosing the "selected article" myself each week, if others would nominate articles and help make decisions. (same goes for pictures, though these are stocked up through July 29) If there is anything related to Wisconsin (or anything else related to the U.S. - culture, music, literature, geography, history, politics, ...), please nominate. I'd also like people to weigh in on the nominations and help select what should be featured. Thanks. --Aude ( talk contribs ) 23:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

New "People from [city]" Categories
Hello, everybody. I am the bozo who just recently created the new subcategories in the "People from Wisconsin" category. I thought that some of you might want to know why they were created, and why they often have so few pages in them.

The majority of the states have "People from [state]" categories which have at least 200 entries, sometimes over 1,000. This is clearly an unworkably large number for anyone wishing to use the category for research purposes. In 8th grade in Rapid City, South Dakota, the social studies class asked us to write, over the course of the year, reports on two or three people who were or had been residents of the city. Because of that, I have reason to believe that they could be used and probably are used for research purposes. To make such research easier, I looked at the list of metropolitan statistical areas and basically entered in one new category for each metropolitan statistical area.

I know that many of these categories might well be, in the eyes of you who know more about the cities in question much better than I do, misnamed or otherwise faulty. I apologize for any mistakes I may have made along those lines, and I would welcome any corrections, including deletion, that any of the rest of you might choose to make. With that in mind, I have also generally populated the categories with only one or two names, to ease in the process of deletion or renaming.

I thought you all should know why these categories were created, and felt some degree of responsibility for letting your know. I wish you all the greatest good fortune in making the coverage of your state in Wikipedia of the greatest scope and quality possible, and I hope that I haven't annoyed too many of you by my recent actions. Badbilltucker 13:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Wisconsin River Navigable to Portage?
This statement in the Wisconsin River page has been bothering me for a while. Since navigability is defined in Wisconsin as (paraphrased) "can float a 6 inch log at high water", and I know much if not all of the river can be canoed, this seems like an odd statement. If what is meant in the article is that a boat can travel from the Mississippi river to Portage without needing to portage around a dam, rapids, etc, that statement isn't accurate either. I can't cite a source, but I have been to the Prarie du Sac dam on many occasions and the lock at that dam is dry due to downstream erosion. Yes, I suppose that this would qualify as original research, and I don't have a citation, but this is why I bring it up here rather than just changing the article. I don't want the article to be inaccurate, but can't fix it in a way which conforms to Wikipedia standards. I can cite a DC court of appeals decision which makes reference to the lock not being operable: pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/docs/common/opinions/200404/03-1026a.pdf --128.104.160.138 17:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The portion of the Wisconsin River above the hydroelectric dam at Prairie du Sac, Wisconsin, is hereby declared to be a nonnavigable waterway of the United States for purposes of title 46, including but not limited to the provisions of such title relating to vessel inspection and vessel licensure, and the other maritime laws of the United States.33USC59aa --Dual Freq 22:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Wisconsin music again
Not too long ago, we had two list articles, one for Wisconsin musicians and one for Wisconsin bands. These have been deleted in favor of using categories. Right now there is a category for Wisconsin music, and that's it. It includes various music related articles, like recording studios and concert series. Does anyone have any suggestions for categorizing? Should there be new cats as subcats of category:Wisconsin music? Should we just put everything in the main? What goes in the band category? Just popular music? What about orchestras or drum and bugle corps? Any thoughts? -Freekee 03:44, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I would say create a subcategory called Musicians from Wisconsin and a subcategory called Bands from Wisconsin. Any band of any type (popular, orchestra, drum, bugle, UW Marching band, whatever) should go in band, and any musician of any type (even Hildegard) in musician. I would put everything else in Wisconsin music for now, and see if there is a large enough group to warrent creating another subcategory. I was tired of watching and reverting the list, so I didn't want to fight for keeping it. --Royalbroil 05:24, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That's about what I was thinking of. I just wanted to see if anyone else had any alternatives. I'm happy to see it changed to categories, I'm just annoyed that they'd do it without warning, and even without discussion, as far as I can tell. I'm glad that the cats won't require as much policing. I'll create the cats on sunday or monday, unless someone else wants to do it. -Freekee 05:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Lists have been turned into categories. Category:Wisconsin musical groups and Category:Wisconsin musicians -Freekee 03:53, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

List of Wisconsin amusement parks
Does anyone see value in keeping the list? There is a category called Category:Amusement parks in Wisconsin that mirrors the list. Why maintain two lists? If no one objects, I will list on AfD in a week. --Royalbroil 12:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Many categories in Wikipedia have accompanying lists. I see value in them as a place for redlinks (todo) and as a descriptive index. 72.131.44.247 01:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I generally like lists. They can be organized, and can provide a bit of information on the subjects. But this isn't a very good list. -Freekee 05:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Since someone objected, I will keep. Thanks for your input! --Royalbroil 13:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Wisconsin sport venues
I am not a resident of Wisconsin, but I am a baseball enthusiast. Is there anybody out there who has more information on the 1901 ballpark and home of the original Milwaukee Brewers called Lloyd Street Grounds? Maybe Milwaukee residents will have better luck at their local library then I have had in researching this ballpark. There doesn't appear to be any pictures of this field in circulation... any help is greatly appreciated. --JR 13:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Bo-di-lac
Is this a real place? I'm not finding anything on it other than there is a Bo-Di-Lac Road in Minocqua. The article needs to be renamed, too. HollyAm 03:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Sounds like its a region around Minocqua. The only edit by the contributor, from April 2006. Reminds me of what's called the "Holyland" in eastern Fond du Lac county. Every little unincorporated village is named after something Christian. I doubt there is much verifiable or notable about the Holyland either. --Royalbroil 13:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks; I just went ahead and renamed it. HollyAm 04:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company
Could an admin please look over user Policyowner's contributions? He/she seems to be pushing a POV agenda and adding the same text and blog links to multiple articles. I'd go through and remove the chaff, but the individual has shown from edits to Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company that they will persist. I guess I just need a little validation or something. :) Thanks! Sulfur 21:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Looks like linkspam to me. — Mi ra  21:31, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Wisconsin Highways WikiProject
There is now a WikiProject for the Wisconsin State Highway System and related articles that will bridge this project with the U.S. Roads WikiProject. Come on over and help us out. -- master_son  Lets talk 01:53, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Horicon Marsh
I thought I'd just mention that I created an article on Horicon Marsh, with Horicon Marsh State Wildlife Area, Horicon Marsh Wildlife Area, Horicon National Wildlife Refuge, Glacial Lake Horicon and Horicon Marsh Wildlife Refuge redirecting to it. Someone more knowledgeable about the subject than I might be able to give the State and National refuges, as well as the Glacial Lake their own articles (with the information on the Horicon Marsh page now, they'd only be stubs). Salmar 17:31, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I removed the double redirects to this article. WikiProject members can add them when the write the article. Thanks for you contribution! --Royalbroil 13:14, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Nice article. Thanks! It was needed. -Freekee 04:38, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Category:Leaders of cities in Wisconsin?
Most states have a subcategory within Category:Leaders of cities in the United States. Shall we follow suit with a Category:Leaders of cities in Wisconsin? If so, should Category:Wisconsin local politicians be a subcategory of it, or vice versa? Any thoughts? HollyAm 03:21, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd be in favor of Category:Leaders of cities in Wisconsin as a subcat of Category:Leaders of cities in the United States and Category:Wisconsin politicians. Also, we could create Category:Leaders of counties in Wisconsin as a subcat of Category:Leaders of counties in the United States. At that point I'd be in favor of depopulating Category:Wisconsin local politicians and deleting it since it's kind of a catch all category;  wasn't a good choice when I created it last year. --BaronLarf 03:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with BaronLarf. I'll add that there ought to be a subcategory of Wisconsin Politicians and Leaders of cities... called Category:Mayors of Milwaukee. Or should that be ...of Milwaukee, Wisconsin?
 * And this brings up the perennial question: Do all of these politicians go in only their proper subcats (Leaders of counties, for example), or do we put them in the subcat and the main (Leaders of counties and Wisconsin politicians). If we go the subcat only route, the only articles that would appear in the top category would be those with no proper specific category. -Freekee 04:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I'd say put them only in the subcats myself. — Mi ra  06:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with MiraLuka. Though WP:SUBCAT is a guideline and not a rule, I see no extenuating circumstance for having politicians in both the main category and the subs.  There will not be any city or county leaders that are not also Wisconsin politicians, and the parent category Category:Wisconsin politicians should be pretty much empty by the time we properly categorize everything. --BaronLarf 16:21, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I also agree with the above. A possible exception might be someone who was a leader of say, Milwaukee County and some other county for which a subcat is not warranted. Also, I went ahead and left off the ", Wisconsin" from the Milwaukee mayors cat; it is consistent with most other U.S. mayor categories and other subcats in Category:Milwaukee, Wisconsin. HollyAm 01:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

 * And what do they mean by "leaders of cities," anyway? Wouldn't that be mayors? Or does it include other leaders, like aldermen and such? Or should it be "leaders of communities"? Next question, if someone's held several offices, they go in several categories, right? That's what I thought. Anyway, good work, people! -Freekee 03:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm OK with the cat names as discussed, but I want to warn against populating them for the sake of doing so, as very few of these politicians are really notable outside their local communities. Almost certainly, the president of a council-manager city council is not notable unless it's a world-class city, and those are all mayors anyway. A small-town mayor isn't. A city manager of a large city might be. --Dhartung | Talk 22:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. While mayors of Milwaukee are probably notable simply because of the size of the city, the village president of Thiensville, town manager of Centerville or mayor of Cuba City probably isn't. --BaronLarf 03:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Deleted Wisconsin articles
The following articles were tagged with Template:prod, and subsequently deleted: Is there any interested in getting these articles undeleted on WP:DRV? --BaronLarf 15:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Volume One, a monthly magazine based in Eau Claire covering entertainment in the Chippewa Valley. Tagged on 8/5/06 with reason of "not notable", deleted 8/9/06
 * Princeton-56ers, an amateur soccer team in Madison which plays in the National Premier Soccer League. Tagged on 8/9/06 with reason of "Amateur sports teams are not notable", deleted 8/13/06.

 * Volume One doesn't sound notable. The team doesn't sound any more or less notable than any other team listed on the league article. I couldn't find the deletion discussion, but log says the prod was uncontested. Just because no current user watches the page, doesn't mean the article is irrelevant. Maybe relist it, with the suggestion that if amateur teams are not notable, then they should be a little more zealous about finding them and proding them too. (Personally, I don't care whether the article exists. It's the principle of it.) -Freekee 04:27, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I think that prod is a pretty good measure of practical notability, in that if nobody's watching the article it's very likely un-notable and certainly unmaintained. As an inclusionist I don't go around suggesting ways that deletionists can exercise their philosophy, and I never really consider "fairness" a dodge (hey, as a semi-step-parent, I don't let the kids get away with it!). These articles might or might not have passed my own smell test, and I have nominated non-notable local subjects for AFD. My call, then -- not worth complaining. --Dhartung | Talk 08:15, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Lake Express
If anyone's wondering why there has been an increase of vandalism to the Lake Express article... it is the subject of a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article regarding controversial edits in favor of the S.S. Badger. Another story hit the Associated Press and just made it to the front page of Slashdot as well. Sulfur 19:18, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Watch for trouble on ferry articles
I just saw mention of the articles on Lake Express and S.S. Badger in the Slashdot feed, so I've stamped their talk pages with high-traffic. These two are likely to see heavy editing over the next few days. Slambo (Speak) 20:14, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

People sorting
I just wanted to mention here what you've probably noticed on your watchlists, that I mass-sorted articles into the People from X, Wisconsin categories that somebody else helpfully created. Surprisingly this had little effect on Category:People from Wisconsin as many of the articles -- which I found via the city articles and what-links-here -- had no origin categorization whatsoever. I worked down the population list, more or less, until I ran into cities that had fewer than 10 people for such a category. My rationale is that if someone has a significant link with a city they count as "from" e.g. first jobs or college attendance don't generally count. I want to avoid category clutter, too. In the cases where someone is "from" more than one place in Wisconsin, especially one without its own category, I didn't always link them to the city category, so they wouldn't be in a category and its container. Anyway, that put about 200 people into city categories. The top-level cat isn't full up by any means so I don't personally see a need to create county or metro-level categories, except perhaps for Madison or Milwaukee.

Partly I did this just so I could feel I was doing something for the project, so I hope it helps!--Dhartung | Talk 04:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Yea, I noticed. Excellent contribution!! RoyalbroilTalk  Contrib 01:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Images of Wisconsin Highways
I created a subcategory of Category:Images of Wisconsin called Category:Images of Wisconsin Highways. I populated the category with images that I had taken of Wisconsin Highways or downtowns of cities along highways. I guess I took a lot more images that I knew (and I have quite a few to upload yet)! I did take a few images out of Images of Wisconsin, but most of the images were uncategorized.

I urge everyone to take photographs of nearby state highway termini, key intersections, and downtowns of Wisconsin cities. Then add them to the appropriate city and/or state highway. I have done quite a bit of Eastern Wisconsin from my travels to Wisconsin's racetracks this summer (I made it to 29 events at 20 tracks within 2 hours drive of Chilton). <b style="color:#000000;">Royal</b><b style="color:#FFCC00;">broil</b>Talk  Contrib 01:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

New image for stub cat
I changed the image for Wisconsin-radio-station-stub. If there are any serious objections, please raise them here, or undo the change. Cheers, Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk 04:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Invitation to new WikiProject
A new WikiProject has been started, and may be of interest to members here. It is WikiProject National Register of Historic Places. It covers all listings on the Register, in all states and territories. Should you be so inclined, please feel free to join. And spread the word to any other interested parties. -Ebyabe 19:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

muwahahaha
I futzed around for hours to create [by hand, I mean by sweat, blood, tears and an incredible amount of frustration] the maps found in Category:Maps of Eau Claire County, Wisconsin and its subcat Category:Maps of Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Does anyone know how to make this endeavor somewhat less time-consuming and conflusterpating? Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk 04:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't know if his method is easier, but User:Oo64eva has created similar maps for suburban municipalities of Chicago and put his directions here. Great work on Eau Claire County! It would be really great if we could get more maps like this, if an easy way is found. HollyAm 00:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 19:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

image help at Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin
I've left a note on the article's talkpage...I can't figure out why the map isn't showing up in the city infobox. Any help would be much appreciated (and I don't think it's the hidden class). Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk 20:23, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Bay of Green Bay vs. Green Bay vs. Green Bay, Wisconsin
There's an assertion made in Bay of Green Bay that the Bay was named after the city. According to an 1838 map I found by clicking around links from here, I see Ft. Howard on the map, and Navarino, but the only "Green Bay" is what Wikipedia [and only Wikipedia from what I can see looking at maps elsewhere], calls the "Bay of Green Bay". The 1996 Encyclopedia Britannica map says "Green Bay", and Merriam-Webster's Geographical Dictionary lists, under Green Bay, as entry #1, and I quote, "Inlet of NW Lake Michigan, on S shore of Upper Penin. of Michigan and NE Wisconsin; ab. 120 mi. (195 km.) long; 10 to 20 mi. (16 to 32 km.) wide; av. depth ab. 100 ft. (30 m.); from early visits by French explorers (see WISCONSIN) was head of important portage route bet. Great lakes and Mississippi River by way of Fox and Wisconsin rivers (qq.v.). the city is entry #2, and quite clearly seems to have been named after the bay, following the establishment of Ft. Howard in 1816.  Wait.  Here it says, platting begun 1829, incorp. as city 1854.  Quite clearly, the Bay had the name in 1838, 16 years before the city was founded.  I foresee a huge battle if I just go ahead and get rid of what is quite clearly "crap", so I'd appreciate some discussion here before figuring out how to procede. As you can see, there's already been some small discussion about this preposterous name at Talk:Bay of Green Bay. Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk 23:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Mostly to avoid the appearance of impropriety or POV-pushing, I have now brought this to WP:RM. Please contribute your views to the discussion and polling (yes, I know, polls are evil) here.  Thanks, and cheers, Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk  08:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hullo...just wanted to drop a note of thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion, both for their time and effort. Cheers, Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk  08:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * As an aside, there are between 50 and 100 articles that link to Bay of Green Bay still. These can be found by clicking on Special:Whatlinkshere/Bay of Green Bay.  If everyone could grab a few and change "Bay of Green Bay" to "Green Bay (Lake Michigan)", and fix up the wikipresentation of those links as appropriate, it would be much appreciated.  Thanks again, Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk  08:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)