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Talk:Procedural generation

Older comments
This needs to be changed. It is Spore specific right now and copys directly from the Spore entry making it redundant since thats probably the only place that links here.
 * It's a very interesting concept that will become more and more games will use. I'm removing the cleanup tag. Jacoplane 19:19, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

The article may be brief, but its spore specificness is only due to a lack of examples. It deserves an article of its own, however, as it is an entirely different concept to procedural textures.
 * There's also the article on Procedural programming.

Darkling Simulations DarkTree is another popular middleware for procedural texture/shader synthesis, worth a mention if SpeedTree is featured. Savuporo 14:23, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I don't see the relationship between procedural generation/texturing and procedural programming. Sure, you can use a "procedural-programming language" to do procedural texturing and such, but it's just like saying you can write programs using C/C++. By the way, that article is not really useful in my opinion.

Anyway, the point is that the relationship is too weak for me. It's like saying that, if you don't understand the working of C/C++ you should check out imperative languages. Sure it helps but the concept is on two totally different dimensions. It's more likely the average user will end up messing various concepts.

The two are getting linked just because they share the word "procedural" but as I see it, the meanings of that word is different in the two contexts. This is very unfortunate since I hardly believe any useful procedural generation algo (SpeedTree comes to mind) can be written using procedural programming methods. MaxDZ8 talk 11:29, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you are correct. The procedural programming page should not like to procedural generation in the See Also section. The two are unrelated in any meaningful way. Jessmartin 06:00, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Revert pending for User:Ashley Y version. The user linked this page with functional programming. I am going to revert it for reasons similar to above. This time, it's claimed procedural generation to be a subset of functional programming. I consider the linkage to be way too weak. If procedural programming has been removed, by sure means this also should be. To re-state a concept above: no doubt you can do procedural generation with this paradigm but it's way too general. There are also a lot of real-world scenarios in which the whole thing just does not fit. Last but not least, the reading of the linked resource does not seem to be very useful and the category added is about heavy mathematical wizardry. There's nothing wrong in that but this makes me think this would be out of place. 83.176.85.211 08:58, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge comments
I believe this shall survive the merge with procedural synthesis. Although as far as I know "synthesis" is the correct term, it's more likely average Joe will like "generation" much more. I'll work on a offline merge in the next few days and propose the results soon. MaxDZ8 20:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I've merged the two pages. I believe this shall now be merged with procedural texture, mainly because the other is very short and I believe it's good to have few big articles than jump here and there. Texturing is just an application so it's also another good reason to merge it. MaxDZ8 18:43, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I've noticed the proposed merge with procedural texture has been removed. I'll take this as proof some people wants to keep the two pages separated. I believe I'll spend some time on the other page in the next few weeks. MaxDZ8 09:04, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Other Procedural Generation methods and related topics
There are some other procedural methods which should/could be mentioned in this article:
 * L-System - Procedural method for generating trees. This should particularly be mentioned in the speculative paragraph about trees.
 * Fractal landscape - Procedural method using fractals for generating terrain.

Quite a few other things relate to these methods as well. Procedural textures and Perlin noise are just a few examples. This article could ideally be restructured to include a more general overview of the variety of techniques used in this area as well as some applications.Jessmartin 06:08, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't have much knowledge of LSystems and I only know basic facts about fractal landscape generation but the actual definition of this latter thing seems to be quite different from what I know. Linking to procedural texturing has been considered as you can see above, but then I moved on editing another page with higher priority (this is "quite nice" actually) and forgot completely to blend it in the text. Same fate happened to Perlin noise references.

It takes a little bit of extra effort than adding a few links or embedding the references in the text nicely. I discussed on the help desk some time ago the need to supply code pieces to demostrate some "almost real" examples but we couldn't find an useful agreement on the language or technologies to be used. This annoyed me pretty much and made me focus on another article. Now that you're providing extra knowledge, I am confident we could finally raise the bar on this topic to useful levels.

There's also the problem that I kept a lot of content from previous revisions (see the blue box?) but I wasn't able to verify it and I personally dislike the whole chapter. What do you think about this issue?  MaxDZ8 talk 22:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Example of procedural generation in DOOM
In DOOM (the 1993 version), iD software had a feature called "auto-pitch" I believe, which adjusted the pitch of sounds randomly when the sound was played. Forexample so that gunshots would sound different, or when selecting stuff in the menu.

I'm not sure I remember this one but I'd rather look at it as a sound processing effect and as far as I remember the sounds were taken from pre-made files so I don't see the connection with procedural generation. Thank you anyway for pointing this out here.  MaxDZ8 talk 16:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

This thing...
Procedural generation as an application of functional programming

Procedurally generated content such as textures and landscapes may exhibit variation, but the generation of a particular item or landscape must be identical from frame to frame. Accordingly, the functions used must be referentially transparent, always returning the same result for the same point, so that they may be called in any order and their results freely cached as necessary. This is similar to lazy evaluation in functional programming languages. I understand this is page actually unverified but I still think something should be put here with salt. Regarding the above statements, I would say that: Could you please point out the goal of that?  MaxDZ8 talk 10:49, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
 * This is way too short to be a chapter by itself.
 * The statements introduce external concepts (functional programming, lazy evaluation, referentially transparent), this would be good but I personally believe those are way too far from the topic.
 * Some of those properties are adviseable but not always required.

 * Procedural generation happens to be an application of functional programming, and really ought to be called "functional generation". The problem is that the people who write procedural generation code don't seem to be very familiar with functional programming, so the connection isn't obvious to them. They may create generation functions and be aware that the functions will usually have to have a certain kind of property, but may not be aware that computer scientists refer to that property as "referential transparency", and so on. —Ashley Y 09:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Your point is taken. I admit that having being self-formed, I lack the academic ... things (I have however used functional languages for almost three years). Yet, I still think this degree of abstraction to be far from correct (as I disagree with most academic stuff I know about). Why? Because there's nothing like "functions" inside a computer. It happens that a series of binary tokens works so similar to numbers and operations some math guru thought it would be nice to estabilish a link between math and physical computers. As now, I think the model envisioned to be actually more involved by the facts themself, thus defeating the need for a model.

After having read your rationale, I am convinced you know the issue. I won't revert anymore your additions, but I still disagree with this. Do as you feel better, however I still think that working with abstraction levels, hypotesis and audience, in computer science is possible to say everithing and the opposite of it, yet hit the truth.

 MaxDZ8 talk  08:13, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

This assertion is simply not true. There is NO requirement that all procedural content be containable in an explicit function or re-evaluatable for the same result. That's because not all assets are generated each frame. Certainly in real-time applications, one does not perform the generation on a per-frame basis. Furthermore, the reference to functional programming is far less relevant than a lot of the basics that are already being left out here. I have *never* heard anyone in the field make this comparison (and I'm familiar with a lot of the literature). Can you cite references? --XeonXT (talk) 07:11, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Landscape/Terrain Generation
Would an article detailing terrain generation fit as a stand alone article on Wikipedia? Since there's a lot of terms for it (pretty much any combination of "procedural"/"generation"/"synthesis"/"terrain"/"landscape"), what would be an appropriate title? Indeed, there is already an article on procedural textures, although it does seriously need more content. In any case, there are already several articles concerning terrain generation algorithms and a "parent" article is sorely needed. I'm pretty sure I'd be able to fit in a lot of content. Nezbie 05:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not aware of the other articles... could you point me to them? To reply you I would like to take a look.  MaxDZ8 talk 15:53, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I wonder if there are any orphaned articles on the subject. In any case, some relevant articles include: algorithms (Fractal landscape, Diamond-square algorithm) and software (MojoWorld, Terragen). The applications and widespread use of terrain generation alone should make the topic worthy of a full-fledged article, including elaboration of some of the most used techniques (including subdivision algorithms, frequency synthesis, faulting, noise, etc...). Nezbie 18:39, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this topic really needs its own page. Covering this here is definetly brain-damaged, considering the amount of detail needed. There will probably be some merge/redirect to do... fractal landscapes are procedurally generated landscapes for example. Maybe the topic needs even more than a page (algorithms and software perhaps).

It looks a dauting task. Good luck!

 MaxDZ8 talk  17:33, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Sound
This sentence didn't make sense to me, so I removed it: "it has been employed in many songs (for example The Cure's songs largely employ synthesizers while techno music is often largely synthesized)". Creating electronic sounds seems a far stretch from procedural generation. (Feel free to correct me, of course.) Tlogmer ( talk / contributions ) 16:22, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

To tell the truth, I has been told about this by a friend and I really cannot prove it so I agree with this.

As for the citation needed, what actually needs clarifications?  MaxDZ8 talk  10:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Synthesis VS generation?
 * 2) Electricity + creativity = Synthetized sound?

I am not an expert in procedural generation/synthesis; to my understand is that procedural systhesis, in computer graphics, is when you use some sort of algorithm to generate graphical content in real time rather than taking a "sample" of texture or use a pre-computed information. If my understanding is correct; I would like to make a clarification as how the procedural synthesis in graphics can be compare to sounds. without goin' into digital vs. anglog sound synthesis details, typically, there are two common way to create sounds: synthesis and sampling. synthesis is when you "generate" a waveform via oscillator; then pass it through bunch of filter to produce a desired sound (waveform). you can say that the procedure is done in real time as you can modify your originating waveform in your oscillator directly; the changes made is immediately effects your output sound. sound producer use various tools to shape their output sound such as different originating waveform (sin, sqaure, saw) or different filter (low pass, cut-off). thus, by saying that electronics sound is created by "electricity" and "creativity" is not entirely wrong. on the contrary, another way to create sound is "sampling" or "sample playback". this is done by first "sampling" the waveform from source audio, store it, and use osccilator to change the frequency (pitch) during the playback. this is similar to scaning a texture from real material and use it in 3D engine. if the analogy is texture reconstruction VS. procedural synthesis; then to sound it is, sound synthesis VS. sample playback. hope it helps. underexpose 01:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this also used extensively in "Rogue-like" dungeon-crawling games?
AFAIK many rogue-like games (like Nethack or Moria) generate their dungeons "randomly"... Does this also fit into this category, and an someone confirm this? 193.96.240.2 08:24, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I also think The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall may have used this process. The majority of its cities, landscape, and dungeons were generated at the start of a new game rather than beforehand. Zenithan 19:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The "Console Support and Speculations" section seems totally out of place, procedural programming has nothing to do with the hardware specifications of all those console cpu's. 20:40, 17 January 07 (GMT)

I agree! Removed.

 MaxDZ8 talk  15:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

dodgy link
[Free access link found!]

about the first external link:
 * Real-time procedural generation of `pseudo infinite' cities - ACM

While this seems to be a very important paper on the topic, it is not available freely. I have a free web account with ACM and this text cannot be accessed with it, leaving only the possibility of purchasing it for $10.

Thus, there are some problems with this link, probably violating wp:web:
 * 1) It could be considered spam/ad, since there's no more info on the topic behind the link without having to register&pay for it.
 * 2) It isn't easily accessible, rendering it useless.
 * 3) There are no hints toward the delicate nature of the link accompanying the reference.

In summary, this link should be removed, at best substituted with a better link to the paper, which is probably hard to find.

Opinions? --Schmiddtchen 12:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I'd have to agree, that link is pretty useless. Virek 13:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I managed to find a link to what should be the same: http://www.infinitylab.com.au/research/graphite2003.pdf 194.237.188.194 (talk) 07:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC) (Did i get everything right when making this 'post' so to speak?)

Real world ref to wiki
This month's Game Developer Magazine references to this article in its "Inner product" section! Congratulation to the editors! This should be taken as an indicator this is actually "good"!

85.18.201.168 11:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Generation v. Synthesis
If "procedural synthesis is actually the correct term" then why is the entry still called procedural generation. Shouldn't the entry be under the "correct" title of procedural synthesis, not a synonymous title and having the "correct" term redirect here. Just a thought, correct me if I'm misunderstanding something.
 * 1) I have found no proof of the actual "superiority" of a term over the another (besides my knowledge).
 * Well, if there is no actual superiority between the terms, then why do you clearly assert the "correct"ness of synthesis in the second paragraph? It either is or is not more "correct", and if it is more "correct" then my feeling is that, regardless of publicity, the article should be titled by the "correct" term. In my opinion, one of two things should be done:
 * Move the article to Procedural Synthesis and state in the introduction that "although procedural generation is the more popular term, procedural synthesis is actually the correct term." or...
 * Remove the statement stating the correctness, and therefore superiority, of synthesis.

 MaxDZ8 talk  08:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * New: considering this has been reported to the press (see above) it doesn't seem rationale to change it now.

Ok, removed. I wonder however why you couldn't to it in the first place.

 MaxDZ8 talk  08:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Common courtesy, and I wanted someone more knowledgeable to make the final choice. MadScientistVX 23:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I see. Thank you... but I don't really consider myself an expert at this.

 MaxDZ8 talk  10:18, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Fractals
"This concept takes on dramatic expression in fractals, a specific example of procedural generation; one around which a whole body of mathematics—fractal geometry—has evolved."

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but I was under the impression that fractals in general are not defined as "procedurally generated", though for the purposes of use in computer art or games they may be. Furthermore, I am certain that the mathematical study of fractals (the fractal geometry link is redundant, by the way) did not arise as a result of the development of procedural generation. Yes, fractals as we encounter them in computer graphics are generated by a procedure or algorithm, but that does not make them procedurally generated per se. I hope you see my point (or even read it, for that matter). Robin S 01:28, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure I understand. You say that it comes from an algo so it is not procedurally generated because it's more than just procedurally generated? I believe it's a special case.

 MaxDZ8 talk  05:51, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm saying that something which can be produced by an algorithm is not necessarily "procedurally generated". Looking at the definition given in the first line of the article, procedural generation is used to create content on the fly, whereas fixed and well-studied mathematical objects such as the Mandelbrot set will be exactly the same every time they are generated regardless of the details of the algorithm used to generate them and thus should not, in my opinion, qualify as content "created on the fly". Moreover, the mathematical study of fractals (as referenced in the quote, above, from the article) is independent of the algorithms used to generate them. The two are separate fields. Fractals have applications in procedural generation but this does not make them a subfield of the latter.

 * edit: if you wanted to be pedantic, you could say that virtually every computer application ever written uses the principle of procedural generation to an extent, because much of the content is generated at runtime (for example, the exact appearance of a window will be altered as it is resized). I feel, however, that this is missing the point. Robin S 20:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe I got it but frankly, I don't know enough!

 MaxDZ8 talk  07:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * The Houdini/Prisms 3D animation software is a 20 year old procedural 3D animation program that has been used in dozens of films and commercials. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houdini_(software) It includes tool sets for procedural modelling, animation, shading, rendering, lighting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houdini_(software) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.139.14 (talk) 04:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Organization of Software using procedural generation
I hope nobody is upset, but I feel that the section looks better the way I organized it. PhycoFalcon 05:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

 * I found a reference for Jade Cocoon. Unfortunately it's on GameFAQs (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197666/10553), so it can't be hotlinked Eoseth (talk) 07:58, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Kkrieger screenshot 01.jpg
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 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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Runescape
I don't know how exactly it works, but Runescape uses a procedural graphics rendering technique which produces (as far as I know) all models in the game. As it's closed source it's difficult to know the extent, but it clearly shows that the technique is usable.

Despite WP:BOLD I didn't want to add it, because I'm not particularly sure where it goes. If a graphics guru is amongst the people here, then here's an example Philipwhiuk (talk) 20:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Star Trek Online
Star Trek Online has a similar "Genesis System", that generates stars, planets and species, but keeps creating these worlds for endless exploration (Similar to Spore). If a player wants to keep a system they find, all they do is they save the coordinates so other players can find them. So would Star Trek Online be included in this list, or is the Genesis System different to Procedual generation (Im not very technical when it comes to programing)? 88.105.124.221 (talk) 20:40, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Notable Examples
As far as procedural content for video games go, Castle Wolfenstein predates every game listed with the possible exception of roguelikes (Beneath Apple Manor and Rogue specifically). Some other early examples: Gateway to Apshai which procedurally generated dungeons based on a fixed random seed table (interestingly one of the seeds causes the Atari and C64 versions of the game to crash); The Seven Cities of Gold (video game) which generated an entire New World to explore for Spain. Xot (talk) 12:19, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Serious Editing Needed
"Procedural generation is a widely used term in the production of media, indicating the possibility to create content on the fly rather than prior to distribution."

This is wrong. It does not matter whether procedural content is generated before or after distribution. Procedural content is produced algorithmically, rather than manually. Of course, every way handling data on a computer requires some sort of algorithm, but that is the best division that can be made. If anyone chooses to generate procedural content, and distributes it after some editing, it may still be largely procedural content.

Also the article in its present form focuses far too much on computer games, which are just one application. I propose to delete the article and link to procedural modeling instead.

87.153.48.240 (talk) 17:04, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Not wrong. Slightly misleading, but technically accurate.  Read carefully, with added emphasis: "indicating the possibility".  With procedural generation, it is *possible* to create content after distribution instead of before.  You don't have to, but you can.--99.17.1.168 (talk) 04:43, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

External Links Fixed
I replaced a few of the broken links with the same content from alternate sources. For the link to the book "Texturing & Modeling - A Procedural Approach" I have put a link to a website of one of the authors that talks about an older version of the book. It's far from perfect, but at least this link works. I also added in one link to an article from Gamasutra that I thought was informative FatPope (talk) 02:21, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Also added in a link to 'FUEL', with appropriate reference --FatPope (talk) 02:51, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Cellular automata
Cellular automata, along with fractals, are good examples of procedural generation. However, this section reads more like an "advertisement" of the topic, meant to convince game designers to use CA. Are there any actual examples of CA being used in games or for other kinds of content generation? EverGreg (talk) 16:27, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. I've only ever seen CAs used in a dynamic cloud system before, but they're not at all commonplace in procedural generation. "Fractal" terrains and perlin noise textures are far, far more common...so it makes no sense to go into detail on CAs when the most basic methods have not been explained in detail. --XeonXT (talk) 07:17, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Film subsection
The "film" subsection is completely uncited and, quite frankly, unintelligible. Although someone else has commented elsewhere on this discussion page that the Houdini software has procedural generation tools, I'm pretty sure that's more for like adding dynamic "noise" or "grain" to an image. The whole "imperfect factory" thing is nonsense and unless anyone can clean this up I'm going to remove it. Alphachimera (talk) 14:39, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the film section is pretty bad. Peter Jackson's King Kong had a procedurally created 1930s New York City. There are certainly many more examples, and the "imperfect factory" needs to be sourced. I've never heard of this.

 * Houdini's proceduralism goes way beyond image manipulation. Almost everything in the software is accessible as a node and can be created or modified procedurally. You could for instance use procedural patterns to make a black and white image. You could then use nodes to convert the image into curves. Use a procedural modeling network to turn the curves into 3D roads and buildings. Use more networks to apply materials and shaders etc. Chris TC01 (talk) 17:05, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

 * I had no idea. I just found some pretty interesting youtube videos of how it can be used to create buildings, I'm guessing it's not that much harder to create a whole city. However, I'm starting to wonder if there's an important distinction between procedural _generation_ to create from-scratch elements and procedural _modeling_ to fill defined spaces with particular, constrained elements. Maybe it's my POV and my limited experience but creating a realistic 1930s New York seems sooooo different from, say, populating new areas in Minecraft or new solar systems in Star Trek. Alphachimera (talk) 19:34, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Minecraft Isn't a Strategy Game
It should be listed under Sandbox or something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.228.145.220 (talk) 02:28, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Coded arms random levels
I'm 99% sure Coded Arms and its sequel Coded_Arms:_Contagion have random levels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.154.215 (talk) 08:24, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Trim down the list
One of the issues with this article seems to be the length of that list. It actually links to a category, so why does it need to list so many games that make use of procedural generation? Does it aid in understanding what procedural generation is about? It also results in a lot of odd categories that don't always make sense.

I suggest using the games in this list to fill out the category some more. Otherwise, may I trim down that list? I don't want to delete half of the list without hearing any opinions. Maplestrip (talk) 09:24, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

After reading WP:BB, I decided to just go for it. I've only removed unreferenced material, and not nearly all of it. Still managed to remove at least a third of the list. Should I also completely remove the shooters and strategy games? Has anyone even tried to look up references for those? The arcade games seem important to keep in for historical reasons, but those too really need references. Maplestrip (talk) 12:50, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I added a note that procedural generation in games originated in D&D.`
I am a new Wikipedia user so if I have done something horribly wrong, please let me know. :)Charles999JF (talk) 16:03, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
 * You need a source for that. The random encounter/weather/etc. tables in D&D are just that - random, they don't represent procedural generation. --M asem (t) 16:31, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

I cited 2 books. I have used these tables myself and they are absolutely procedural by the existing definition you put in this article.Charles999JF (talk) 16:40, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
 * You can't directly site the books that are being used as examples as a source to say they are procedural generation - that is original research. However I was able to find at least two academic papers that credit D&D and other tabletop systems for procedural generation, so I've added those and sourced appropriately. --M asem (t) 17:03, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Categorization in applications of randomness
Hi Hellknowz,

I'm not an expert on categorization, but sparse categorization on articles seems less useful for readers (at the very least personally speaking). Currently, this article is only categorized in Category:Procedural generation.

Also, in your revert you said it is already part of Category:Procedural generation subcat, but it's only part of that category because I added it today.

I was mulling over whether the procedural generation category should be CfD nominated, but regardless I feel it's useful for this article to be categorized in Category:Applications of randomness

-- Retro ( talk  |  contribs ) 13:37, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Additional note: it appears there are some specific guidelines for eponymous categories: WP:EPON. It provides three ways for handling the situation, and for our purposes, I think #1 makes sense. A strictly nonredundant category hierarchy isn't an absolute rule. Retro  ( talk  |  contribs ) 13:52, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Hi. You're right, I didn't realize this. I've never actually encountered this sort of case. The part I was referring to is the WP:SUBCAT, i.e. "pages for sub-categories should be categorised under the most specific parent categories". But here I agree that WP:CATMAIN applies, i.e. "articles with an eponymous category may be categorized in the broader categories". I reverted my undo. I don't have any comment on sparse categorization - that's not really a factor for anything as far as I know. Some topics just don't have categories. — HELL KNOWZ ∣ TALK 18:28, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Procedural generation


text:
Feed Me with Your Kiss

"Feed Me with Your Kiss" is a song by the alternative rock band My Bloody Valentine, and was released as a single and also the lead track to the EP of the same name through Creation Records. It is the seventh track and lead single from the band's debut studio album Isn't Anything. It was released on 31 October 1988.

Critical reception
On the EP, AllMusic critic Nitsuh Abebe wrote: "They don't feel like songs that weren't quite good enough for Isn't Anything; they might display some of the stylistic tendencies of the Ecstasy and Wine period, but they're just as worthwhile as the album tracks."

In another review, Stewart Mason of Allmusic thought that the track "more in keeping with the moody, gothy rock of My Bloody Valentine's much-inferior earliest records." Mason also stated that the track "has a peculiar feel, pitched somewhere between the bombastic self-importance of mid-'80s Nick Cave and the ethereality of prime Cocteau Twins, mixed with the same sort of slightly dopey S&M-tinged lyrics as the roughly contemporaneous "Cigarette in Your Bed," proving that it was in the long run a very smart idea for Kevin Shields to completely bury the lyrics on My Bloody Valentine's later work." Digital Spy commended the "ear-splitting garage rock scuzz of the title track.

Track listing

 * Limited to 1,000 copies, many of which showed side B misprinted as "Emptiness Inside"

 * Reissued on CD in April 1990 (CRESCD061)

 * Mercury Records 12-inch from November 1988 (Mercury 874 343-1), combining tracks from this EP and its predecessor, You Made Me Realise.

Personnel

 * Kevin Shields – vocals, guitar
 * Bilinda Butcher – vocals, guitar
 * Colm Ó Cíosóig – drums
 * Debbie Googe – bass guitar
 * My Bloody Valentine – production

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Feed Me with Your Kiss


text:
Talk:John Lennon discography

Change to layout
The purpose of a discography page is to provide a quick lookup of the albums released by an artist. I think that the recent edits have made this page unclear and confusing to the casual user who just needs quick access to this kind of information at a glance. I would like to revert this page to the last set of changes done by User:Shirimasen but in order to prevent a potential edit war I would be interested in hearing what anyone thinks about this.
 * You can revert it if you feel strongly about it. I won't get into an edit war over it. --typhoon 04:31, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

John Lennon template
Is there need for a John Lennon template (you know, one that can be placed below articles about John Lennon songs/albums, directing to his biography, albums et cetera, similar to Template:The_Beatles? Or should the beatles template be used instead? (Or is this something for the beatles project?) Pie.er 13:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Bootlegs Added
I've added a bootleg section. Please expand it, but limit to significant bootlegs, and if there is an extensive series, just add the name of the series so we don't crowd the article up too much.

LIVE PEACE IN TORONTO 1969
Hi,

LIVE PEACE IN TORONTO 1969 has been awarded gold record in the US under the artist name "Plastic Ono Band" and not "John Lennon" but I can't easily introduce the reference in the article because I haven't found how to copy the complete URL address which begins by "http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?table=SEARCH_RESULTS".

Thank you to introduce it in the article. Carlo Colussi (both my real name and my usual account when I'm logged in but I wasn't logged in when I made the following edit : (cur) (last) 07:53, 9 October 2008 212.23.162.39 (Talk) (14,780 bytes) (→Live albums) (undo)". Sorry for not mastering references addings :

BACK First Artist PLASTIC ONO BAND 	Title PLASTIC ONO BAND - LIVE PEACE IN TORONTO 	Certification Date 03/17/1970 	Label APPLE Award Description GOLD 	Format ALBUM 	Category GROUP 	Type ST —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.23.162.39 (talk) 08:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

B-sides?
Am a little surprised that the singles here aren't arranged, as with other artists, in a simple table showing B-sides and highest positions, if any, in various charts. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:14, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Sortable tables
It would be nice if someone with knowledge added those to this. --194.197.235.26 (talk) 21:30, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Interview disc
There's a John Lennon/Yoko Ono interview disc called "Heart Play", could someone add it to the table? --Yeepsi (Talk to me!) 22:36, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Cite error
"Cite error: tag is missing the closing" on the line of Live Peace in Toronto 1969

I'll look at it myself when I have the time, but if YOU would like to fix it, please do go ahead. I'm not sure if it is this error that causes everything below there to be listed in the Live albums section, or if that's a different issue.

Tamtation (talk) 23:34, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 7 external links on John Lennon discography. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924140807/http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?artist=%22Lennon%22 to http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?artist=%22Lennon%22
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100621054859/http://www.infodisc.fr/Certif_Album.php to http://www.infodisc.fr/Certif_Album.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120225041920/http://www.musiccanada.com/GPSearchResult.aspx?st= to http://www.musiccanada.com/GPSearchResult.aspx?st=&ica=False&sa=John+Lennon&sl=&smt=0&sat=-1&ssb=Artist
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130701062753/http://www.ifpi.at/?section=goldplatin to http://www.ifpi.at/?section=goldplatin
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110724180126/http://www.ifpi.no/sok/lst_trofeer_sok.asp?type=artist to http://www.ifpi.no/sok/lst_trofeer_sok.asp?type=artist
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140306220625/http://www.riaj.or.jp/issue/record/1997/199709.pdf to http://www.riaj.or.jp/issue/record/1997/199709.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924140807/http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?artist=%22Lennon%22 to http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?artist=%22Lennon%22

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on John Lennon discography. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131103025136/http://infodisc.fr/Album_L.php to http://infodisc.fr/Album_L.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121104164424/http://norwegiancharts.com/weekchart.asp?year=1971&date=197108&cat=a to http://norwegiancharts.com/weekchart.asp?year=1971&date=197108&cat=a

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Orphaned references in John Lennon discography
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of John Lennon discography's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "BPI": From Mick Jagger:  From British Phonographic Industry:  From The Beatles discography:

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:01, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:John Lennon discography


text:
Aloha from Hawaii via Satellite

Aloha from Hawaii via Satellite is a concert starring Elvis Presley that took place at the Honolulu International Center and was broadcast live via satellite to audiences in Asia and Oceania on January 14, 1973. The show was presented with a delay in Europe. In the United States, to avoid a programming conflict with Super Bowl VII and Elvis on Tour which was playing in cinemas at the time, NBC opted to air a ninety-minute television special of the concert on April 4.

Presley returned to performing tours throughout the United States in 1970. Richard Nixon's 1972 visit to China inspired Presley's manager, Colonel Tom Parker, to promote a live broadcast concert featuring Presley and he arranged a deal with RCA Records and the NBC network to produce one. The show benefited the Kui Lee Cancer Fund.

Marty Pasetta produced the program. A filmed rehearsal concert took place on January 12. The show earned good ratings in the countries targeted by the live broadcast. The television special presented in the United States became NBC's highest-rated program of the year, and it received a favorable reception from critics. Its soundtrack album became Presley's last chart-topper on Billboard album chart.

Background
After a seven-year hiatus from live performances to focus on his acting career, Elvis Presley returned with his 1968 NBC television special Elvis. Following the critical success of the special, by 1969, Presley returned to releasing non-soundtrack albums with From Elvis in Memphis. His manager, Colonel Tom Parker, arranged for him to play a concert residency at the newly built International Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. For this engagement he assembled a band, later known as the TCB Band: James Burton (guitar), John Wilkinson (rhythm guitar), Jerry Scheff (bass guitar), Ronnie Tutt (drums), Glen Hardin (piano) and Charlie Hodge (rhythm guitar, background vocals). The Sweet Inspirations, the Imperials, the Stamps and Kathy Westmoreland provided backing vocals, and the show also featured the 30-piece Joe Guercio orchestra. Presley began to tour the United States again in 1970 after a thirteen-year hiatus.

Presley's early 1972 albums, Elvis Now and He Touched Me, charted at number 43 and 79 on the Billboard Hot 100. That year, Presley embarked on a 15-city tour that was filmed for the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM) documentary Elvis on Tour. The film earned a Golden Globe Award for best documentary. A planned soundtrack album was never released as the recording equipment failed during the fourth night of performances.

Presley appeared at Madison Square Garden in New York City in June 1972; the performance was released as a live album the same month and reached number 11 on Billboard's Hot 100. Demand for Presley was strong in Europe and Asia, where Presley was eager to perform, but Parker prevented this. This has been attributed to Parker's status as an illegal immigrant; Parker concealed his origins as a Dutch national, and feared deportation if he left the United States. A month after the Madison Square Garden show, Parker mentioned to the press that arrangements were being made for Presley to play a concert via satellite to live audiences worldwide. Parker declared that "it is the intention of Elvis to please all of his fans throughout the world".

Production
On September 4, the final day of Presley's 59-show engagement at the Las Vegas Hilton, Parker announced at a press conference that the live NBC television special, Aloha from Hawaii, would take place in January 1973 in Hawaii. Parker had the idea in February 1972, when he saw the live broadcast of Richard Nixon's visit to China. Parker approached NBC's president Tom Sarnoff with the proposition. They set a tentative release date for November 18, the end of Presley's tour. The date had to be moved at the request of television executive Jim Aubrey, who wanted to avoid the special overlapping with the theatrical release of Elvis On Tour, scheduled for the same month. The date for the concert was eventually set for January 14, 1973. The broadcast in the United States was postponed until April to avoid a conflict with Super Bowl VII that was to be played on the same day.

Sarnoff suggested Marty Pasetta produce the special. Pasetta had produced television specials for Perry Como, Bing Crosby, Glen Campbell, and Don Ho's five specials, filmed on location in Hawaii. He had also produced broadcasts of the Oscars, Emmys, and Grammys. Presley was interested in a producer who could capture the atmosphere of a live concert. Pasetta attended Presley's concert in Long Beach on November 15. He was unimpressed by Presley's performance, feeling his presence was "staged, quiet", and expressed his doubts to the network that he would be able to produce an hour-and-a-half special. They told Pasetta to discuss his concerns with Parker.

Funding
RCA Records Tours, founded by RCA Records at Parker's request to manage the promotion of Presley's tours, would receive US$1 million (equivalent to $ million in ) from NBC for the special. RCA would receive US$100,000, while Presley and Parker would receive US$900,000 (equivalent to $ million in ) to be split between them. Presley's managerial contract, signed in 1967, stipulated that Parker would receive fifty percent of the total profit of his negotiated deals.

Eddie Sherman, a Honolulu Advertiser writer, contacted Parker with the idea of giving the proceeds of the concert admissions to a charity he had recently established. Sherman had worked with Parker to promote Presley's 1961 benefit concert for the construction of the USS Arizona Memorial. Since Parker could not charge a television audience for tickets, Sherman proposed taking donations for the Kui Lee Cancer Fund instead. Sherman started the fund to benefit cancer research at the University of Hawaii. Kui Lee, a singer-songwriter from Hawaii, died in 1966 of lymph gland cancer. Presley recorded Lee's "I'll Remember You" in mid-1966 and included the song in his live sets starting in 1972. Presley contributed with the first donation of US$1,000 ; while the audience could determine the amount of their donations.

Stage design

Pasetta took sketches of his ideas for the stage to Parker. He envisioned the band placed on a riser behind Presley. The stage was to be built low to allow the audience proximity to him, with a runway to allow Presley to move towards them. Mirrors would frame the stage, while the background would feature flashing neon signs that read "Elvis" in the language of the countries where the concert was projected to be broadcast, and the accompanying album would be released. A figure holding a guitar was to be added to the background lights. Parker dismissed the idea, telling Pasetta that Presley would not approve of his plans.

Pasetta insisted on taking his ideas directly to Presley; Parker did not object. Pasetta told Presley he was not pleased with his performance in Long Beach and laid out his plans for the stage and the details of the Hawaii production. He finished by telling Presley he would need to lose weight for the special. Impressed by Pasetta's frankness, Presley became excited to work with him, and the meeting lasted four hours. Presley returned to his home, Graceland, in Memphis, Tennessee, and began to exercise to deal with Pasetta's weight concerns. He increased his practice of karate, consumed vitamins and protein drinks, and used weight-reduction pills. He lost 25 lb in a month.

Pasetta returned to Los Angeles, where he began work on the stage that would be shipped to Hawaii; further set decorations would be added on location. The large stage covered the space used for 3,500 of the Honolulu International Center's 8,800 seats. RCA Records commissioned the Berlitz Corporation to translate the phrases and scriptures Presley would use.

The stage and equipment were shipped from Los Angeles to Hawaii in early January 1973. Pasetta and the crew traveled there to film the scenery to be added as inserts to the television special for its release in the United States. Presley arrived on January 10. After seeing the stage in the venue, Presley asked Pasetta to remove the scattered individual risers that were put in place for the TCB Band and backup singers. Pasetta agreed, and while work on the stage continued, Presley rehearsed at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. The show's opener was shot at the Hilton hotel's helipad, with a thousand Presley fans in attendance.

Costumes
Presley approached his costume designer, Bill Belew, with an idea for his concert suit. Belew had begun working for Presley in 1968, with the creation of the leather suit he wore for his NBC special Elvis, and created the one-piece jumpsuits he wore during his Las Vegas appearances. Belew's designs featured gabardine stretch fabric with Napoleonic collars, rhinestone decorations and bell-bottoms. For the upcoming special, Presley asked Belew to create a patriotic design. Presley felt the broadcast of the show via satellite was a product of American creative thinking. Since it was going to be viewed in foreign countries, he told Belew, "I just want the suit to say America". This was one of the few occasions when Presley made a special request of Belew, who usually relied on his own creativity.

Initially, Belew suggested a pattern based on the outline of the map. Then they considered the flag, but settled on the bald eagle, since Belew recalled seeing the image in a US embassy. The white jumpsuit featured a bald eagle made with patterns of gold, blue and red gems on the chest and back. Belew created a four-inch white leather belt featuring five ovals with the Great Seal of the United States. Initially, Belew made a calf-length cape. Presley planned to be covered by it at the start of his performance, and then reveal himself as the show started, but discarded it during rehearsals, as he felt it was too heavy at 12 lb. Belew created a hip-length cape. Producing the entire costume required most of Belew's staff because of the amount of embroidery and the attachment of several pieces of jewelry. It featured 6,500 individual stones.

During the rehearsals, Presley gave the costume's belt to Jack Lord's wife. Presley's associate, Joe Esposito called Belew. Alarmed, Belew told Esposito he had no more rubies, and that he would have to obtain them from Europe. However, he found them locally and worked overtime with his team to produce a new belt. Belew flew to Hawaii with the replacement belt and stayed for the shows.

Rehearsal and concert
The rehearsal show took place on Friday, January 12. Fans "stormed" the arena as the doors opened at 7:00 p.m., two hours before the start of the show. The audience was standing or sitting in the aisles. Initially, the number of attendees was set at 6,000. The rehearsal was filmed and had technical problems. Honolulu mayor Frank Fasi declared January 13 "Elvis Presley day", to commend him for his contributions to the Kui Lee Cancer Fund. The review in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin declared: "(Presley) put on an hour-long show last night that was perfect" and described the positive reaction of the female fans to Presley's presence.

The Aloha from Hawaii concert took place on January 14, at 12:30 a.m. local time to match the prime time of the broadcast locations of the concert: Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea, South Vietnam, the Philippines and Australia. Admission was more restricted for the Saturday show. Parker arranged entertainment for the fans turned away after the limit was reached, featuring high school bands, clowns, and robots. New technical problems arose as NBC's recording equipment, combined with RCA Records' equipment brought by engineer Wally Heider, overloaded the power sources. The problem was fixed, but two hours before the start of the show, the sound system picked up a hum caused by the stage lights. The sound engineers borrowed thick lead sheets from the United States Navy to isolate the equipment. Teenage fans were present in the first rows, while most of the audience was reported to be people in their forties. Among the audience were Mayor Fasi, Jack Lord, and Kui Lee's family.

Presley performed 22 songs. He made his usual entrance as the band played the 2001: A Space Odyssey theme "Also sprach Zarathustra". The set featured classics from Presley's repertoire, including "Blue Suede Shoes", "Hound Dog", and "Love Me". Presley also performed the ballads "You Gave Me a Mountain", "My Way", "I Can't Stop Loving You", "What Now My Love", Kui Lee's "I'll Remember You" and "An American Trilogy", among others. Presley threw his belt to the crowd at the end of "An American Trilogy". He closed the set with "Can't Help Falling in Love". At the start of the number, Presley was covered with the short cape by his assistant, Charlie Hodge. As he finished, he displayed the cape by opening it and raising it with his hands as he took a knee. He threw the cape into the first rows and then gave the audience the Shaka sign and received a golden crown from fans as he walked away.

After the audience left the building, Presley returned to the arena to record additional material for the United States version of the television special. "Blue Hawaii" was recorded with several takes, "KU-U-I-PO" and "No More" in three takes, "Hawaiian Wedding Song" is also followed with several takes, and "Early Morning Rain" closed the session. All songs except "No More" were used in the special. Pasetta then worked to edit out ten minutes for the planned European delayed broadcast on the Eurovision Network at 12:30 p.m. Central European Time.

Reception
The proceeds of the show exceeded the planned US$25,000, and US$75,000 was raised for the Kui Lee Cancer Fund. The next day, Honolulu Advertiser columnist Wayne Harada called the show a "thrilling, compact hour-long on music and screams" in his review. He deemed Presley's performance of "I'll Remember You" as "easily the most sentimental" for the Hawaiian audience and remarked on the warm reception for "An American Trilogy".

Initial reports estimated the show was seen by 1.5 billion people in 36 countries. Parker had presented the same figures at the press conference promoting the broadcast. The communications satellite Intelsat IV F-4 was used for the transmission of the live feed to the target area. In Australia, Channel Nine presented the show with the assistance of the Overseas Telecommunications Commission (OTC). The concert closed the "Elvis Presley Week" television event on NTV in Japan and garnered 37.8% of the total television viewers; viewership reached 70% in Hong Kong. In South Korea, it attracted an estimated 70–80% of TV viewers, while tentative data from the Philippines indicated 91.8%. As the event occurred during the Cold War, China and the Soviet Union were excluded from the broadcast. Contrary to Parker's claim, the concert would be presented with a delay of days or weeks to the 21 European countries where it was finally seen; countries that were a part of the Warsaw Treaty Organization were excluded. The figures for total viewers proposed by Presley's manager were questioned, as critics pointed that the sum of the total population of all the countries targeted by the broadcast was roughly 1.3 billion with the actual viewership ranging from 150-200 million.

NBC aired the ninety-minute television special on April 4. The Stokely-Van Camp Company and Toyota presented the show. It opened with an animation of the satellite "beaming" Presley to different parts of the world, with audio signals in Morse code saying "Elvis: Aloha from Hawaii". Pasetta added clips of Presley's arrival by helicopter to the Hilton hotel and the show outside the arena to the concert sequences. The additional recordings Presley made after the show were also integrated. Pasetta used split-screens to show Presley and the scenery images he had filmed of Hawaii. The track "No More" was not used. The show earned a Nielsen rating of 33.8 and a 57 share.

Billboard praised the special's camera work, declaring that Presley "dominated the tube with showmanship" and concluded that at 38, Presley "still knows how to sing rock". The Los Angeles Times review remarked on Presley's "polished skills" while calling his antics "an amusing parody" of his early career. It called the performances of "An American Trilogy" "stunning", and "I'll Remember You" as "poignant". In contrast, The Boston Globe's negative review rated the show with two stars out of five. The reviewer felt the set decorations were "trappings" and that Presley's performance was "buried in folderol". The piece drew a comparison with his appearances on the Ed Sullivan Show and declared "the electricity was gone" and that "he was mocking himself and his milieu".

The New York Daily News praised Pasetta's work on the production and Presley's performance that used "fewer tricks" but delivered "a skillfully paced concert". A negative review in the Chicago Sun-Times said the program consisted of "a 90-minute documentary of Presley's sweat glands at work, masquerading as an entertainment special". It criticized Presley's lack of "body movements" and his "feet-apart stance that was more appropriate to address a pinball machine". The Charlotte News review said that while Presley "pushed himself to the limit" for the performance, the ninety-minute presentation was "entirely too much". The piece criticized NBC's choice to broadcast a special by Ann-Margret immediately following Presley's show. The Cincinnati Enquirer reviewer felt "captivated" by Presley's "singing and stage talents", but lamented the "unnecessary segment" depicting Presley's arrival and reception by fans. Meanwhile, the newspaper's rock critic felt that the abundance of close-ups of Presley "knock out about half of the mystique".

Soundtrack
RCA Records released the soundtrack album worldwide in February 1973 in quadraphonic sound. RCA employed two record plants to press the album. The LP's sleeve contained the phrase "we love Elvis" written in different languages. The double-LP reached number one on the Billboard 200. It became Presley's first album chart-topper since 1965, his last during his lifetime and sold half-a-million copies in two weeks. Within three weeks of its release, it was certified gold; it then went to be certified 5× platinum.

Legacy
The 1967 Our World black-and-white television special was the first live international concert presented via satellite. Aloha from Hawaii was the first live satellite broadcast to feature a single performer. The production cost of the special was a total of US$2.5 million (equivalent to $ million in ), setting a record at the time of its broadcast. The show was NBC's highest-rated program of the year.

Belew made two costumes for the show, each worn in one of the concerts. Both of Presley's costumes are kept by Elvis Presley Enterprises; one of them is on display at Graceland mansion. The short-cape worn by Presley during the special was caught by Honolulu Advertiser sportswriter Bruce Spinks. Spinks sold it to collector Andrew Kern. After Kern's death in 1995, his mother followed his wish to donate the cape to be displayed at Graceland. The second cape was sold at an auction in 1999 for US$105,250. In 2014, the long cape was listed by RR Auction. The bids reached US$90,000, short of the reserve price. The seller and buyer had to negotiate a final price.

In 2007, a life-size bronze statue of Presley commissioned by TV Land was unveiled at the site of the concert. It commemorated the thirtieth anniversary of Presley's death. In 2013, a five-day celebration for the fortieth anniversary of the concert took place in Hawaii. On January 14, a special screening of the concert was played at the same venue, now named the Neal Blaisdell Arena.

Home media
Aloha from Hawaii was first released on VHS in 1984. In September 2004, Aloha from Hawaii: (Deluxe Edition) was released on DVD. The two-disc package includes the concert, the rehearsal, and the extended US special. Additionally, the set contains the complete sequence of Presley's arrival and the entire post-concert session. The picture and the sound were digitally remastered from the original master tapes. Allmusic gave the release four stars out of five, and declared "the January 14 show remains genuinely exciting 31 years later", and praised the audio and video remastering. A single-disc special edition version of the concert was released in 2006. In 2023, Legacy Recordings announced the release of a newly remastered box-set consisting of three CDs and a blu-ray, or two LPs. The label set the release date for August 11, 2023, while it also announced the screening of the concert at Graceland in August 16, 2023 and a Q&A event.

title: Aloha from Hawaii via Satellite


text:
User:SwissAK

I am the SwissAK.

title: User:SwissAK


text:
John MacHale

John MacHale (6 March 1789 (or 1791) – 7 November 1881) was the Irish Roman Catholic Archbishop of Tuam, and Irish nationalist.

He laboured and wrote to secure Catholic Emancipation, legislative independence, justice for tenants and the poor, and vigorously assailed the proselytizers and the government's proposal for a mix-faith national school system. He preached regularly to his flock in Irish and "almost alone among the Bishops he advocated the use of Irish by the Catholic clergy".

Childhood
John MacHale was born in Tubbernavine, near Lahardane, County Mayo, Ireland. Bernard O'Reilly places the date in the spring of 1791, while others suggest 1789 more likely. His parents were Patrick and Mary ( Mulkieran) MacHale. He was so feeble at birth that he was baptised at home by Father Andrew Conroy, who later was hanged during the Irish Rebellion of 1798. His father, known locally as Pádraig Mór, was a farmer, whose house served as a wayside inn on the highroad between Sligo and Castlebar. Although Irish was always spoken by the peasants at that time, the MacHale children were all taught English. John's grandmother, however, encouraged him to retain his knowledge of Irish.

By the time he was five years of age, he began attending a hedge school. Three important events happened during John's childhood: the Irish Rebellion of 1798; the landing at Killala of French troops, whom the boy, hidden in a stacked sheaf of flax, watched marching through a mountain pass to Castlebar; and a few months later the execution of Father Conroy on a charge of high treason. These occurrences made an indelible impression upon him.

After school hours he studied Irish history, under the guidance of an old scholar in the neighbourhood. Destined for the priesthood, at the age of thirteen he was sent to a school at Castlebar to learn Latin, Greek, and English grammar. In his sixteenth year the Bishop of Killala gave him a busarship at St Patrick's College, Maynooth at Maynooth.

Ordination
The emigrant French priests who then taught at Maynooth appreciated the linguistic aptitude of the young man and taught him not only French, but also Latin, Greek, Italian, German, Hebrew, and the English classics. After seven years of study, he was appointed in 1814 lecturer in theology, although only a sub-deacon. Before the end of the year, however, aged 23 or 25, he was ordained a priest by Daniel Murray, Archbishop of Dublin. Father MacHale continued his lectures at Maynooth until 1820, when he was nominated professor of theology.

About this period he commenced a series of letters to the Dublin Journal, signed "Hierophilus", vigorously attacking the Irish Established Church's system of religious education in schools.

In 1825, Pope Leo XII appointed him titular bishop of Maronia, and coadjutor bishop to Dr. Thomas Waldron, Bishop of Killala. After his consecration in Maynooth College chapel, he devoted himself to his sacred duties. He preached Irish and English sermons, and superintended the missions given in the diocese for the Jubilee of 1825. The following year, MacHale joined Bishop Doyle in denouncing the proselytizing Kildare Street Society of Dublin.

MacHale attended the annual meeting of the Irish bishops, and gave evidence at Maynooth College before the Parliamentary Commissioners then inquiring into the condition of education in Ireland. The Catholic hierarchy's policy in the following decades was to ensure that Irish primary schools for Catholic children were run by Catholics, while the Dublin administration wanted all such schools to be run on a mixed-faith basis. The officials felt that two parallel systems would be too expensive and socially divisive, but the hierarchy held this would result in a default system based on the English version of history that had often been anti-Catholic since 1570.

Emancipation campaign, 1820s
About this time he also revised a theological manual On the Evidences and Doctrines of the Catholic Church, afterward translated into German. With his friend and ally, Daniel O'Connell, MacHale took a prominent part in the important question of Catholic Emancipation, impeaching in unmeasured terms the severities of the former penal code, which had branded Catholics with the stamp of inferiority. During 1826 his zeal was omnipresent; "he spoke to the people in secret and public, by night and by day, on the highways and in places of public resort, calling up the memories of the past, denouncing the wrongs of the present, and promising imperishable rewards to those who should die in the struggle for their faith. He called on the Government to remember how the Act of Union in 1800 was carried by William Pitt the Younger on the distinct assurance and implied promise that Catholic Emancipation, which had been denied by the Irish Parliament, should be granted by the Parliament of the Empire."

1830s
In two letters written to the Prime Minister, Earl Grey, he described the distress occasioned by starvation and fever in Connacht, the ruin of the linen trade, the vestry tax for the benefit of Protestant churches, the tithes to the Protestant clergy, which Catholics were obliged to pay as well as their Protestant countrymen, the exorbitant rents extracted by absentee landlords, and the crying abuse of forcing the peasantry to buy seed-corn and seed-potatoes from landlords and agents at usurious charges. No attention was paid to these letters. Dr. MacHale accompanied to London a deputation of Mayo gentlemen, who received only meaningless assurances from Earl Grey. After witnessing the coronation of William IV at Westminster Abbey, the bishop, requiring change of air on account of ill-health, went on to Rome, but not before he had addressed to the premier another letter informing him that the scarcity in Ireland "was a famine in the midst of plenty, the oats being exported to pay rents, tithes, etc., and that the English people were actually sending back in charity what had originally grown on Irish soil plus freightage and insurance". It may be observed that Dr. MacHale never blamed the English people, whose generosity he acknowledged. On the other hand he severely condemned the Government for its incapacity, its indifference to the wrongs of Ireland, that aroused in the Irish peasantry a sullen hatred unknown to their more simple-minded forefathers. During an absence of sixteen months he wrote excellent descriptive letters of all he saw on the Continent. They were eagerly read in The Freeman's Journal, while the sermons he preached in Rome were so admired that they were translated into Italian. Amid the varied interests of the Eternal City he was ever mindful of Ireland's woes and forwarded thence another protest to Earl Gray against tithes, and proselytism, this last grievance being then rampant, particularly in Western Connacht.

On his return he became an opponent of the proposed system of non-sectarian 'National Schools', fearing that the bill as originally framed, was an insidious attempt to weaken the faith of Catholic children. The policy of the Stanley letter was to provide a new state-funded primary school system without religious indoctrination. McHale's overview was that in many ways he owned his flock, body and soul, and would educate them as he saw fit.

Archbishop of Tuam
Oliver Kelly, Archbishop of Tuam, died in 1834, and the clergy selected MacHale as one of three candidates, to the annoyance of the Government who despatched agents to induce the pope not to nominate him to the vacant see. Pope Gregory XVI dryly remarked:

 * ''ever since the Relief Bill had passed, the English Government never failed to interfere about every appointment as it fell vacant" (Charles C. F. Greville, "Memoirs", pt. II ).

Disregarding their request, the pope appointed MacHale Archbishop of Tuam. He was the first prelate since the Reformation who had received his entire education in Ireland. The corrupt practices of general parliamentary elections and the Tithe War caused frequent rioting and bloodshed, and were the subjects of denunciation by the new archbishop, until the passing of a Tithes bill in 1838. Archbishop MacHale now began in the newspapers a series of open letters to the Government, whereby he frequently harassed the ministers into activity in Irish affairs. MacHale also led the opposition to the Protestant Second Reformation, which was being pursued by evangelical clergy in the Church of Ireland, including the Bishop of Tuam, Thomas Plunket.

During the Autumn of 1835, he visited the Island of Achill, a stronghold of the Bible Readers. To offset their proselytism, he sent thither more priests and Franciscan friars of the Third Order.

MacHale condemned the Poor Law, and the system of National Schools and Queen's Colleges as devised by the Government. He founded his own schools, entrusting those for boys to the Christian Brothers and Franciscan friars, while Sisters of Mercy and Presentation Nuns taught the girls. Want of funds restricted the number of these schools, which had to be supplemented by the National Board at a later period, when the necessary amendments had been added to the Bill.

Repeal of the Union campaign, 1830s

The repeal of the Union, advocated by Daniel O'Connell, enlisted his ardent sympathy and he assisted the Liberator in many ways, and remitted subscriptions from his priests for this purpose. His biographer Bernard O'Reilly describes MacHale as supporting "a thorough and universal organisation of Irishmen in a movement for obtaining by legal and peaceful agitation the restoration of Ireland's legislative independence". The Charitable Bequests Bill, formerly productive of numerous lawsuits owing to its animus against donations to religious orders, was vehemently opposed by the archbishop. In this he differed considerably from some other Irish prelates, who thought that each bishop should exercise his own judgment as to his acceptance of a commissionership on the Board, or as regarded the partial application of the Act. The latter has since then been so amended, that in its present form it is quite favourable to Catholic charities and the Catholic poor. In his zeal for the cause of the Catholic religion and of Ireland, so long down-trodden, but not in the 1830s, Dr. MacHale frequently incurred from his opponents the charge of intemperate language, something not altogether undeserved. He did not possess that suavity of manner which is so invaluable to leaders of men and public opinion, and so he alarmed or offended others. In his anxiety to reform abuses and to secure the welfare of Ireland, by an uncompromising and impetuous zeal, he made many bitter and unrelenting enemies. This was particularly true of British ministers and their supporters, by whom he was dubbed "a firebrand", and "a dangerous demagogue". Cardinal Barnabo, Prefect of Propaganda, who had serious disagreements with Dr. MacHale, declared he was a twice-dyed Irishman, a good man ever insisting on getting his own way. This excessive inflexibility, not sufficiently tempered by prudence, explains his more or less stormy career.

The Famine of 1845–49
The Irish famine of 1846–47 affected his diocese more than any. In the first year he announced in a sermon that the famine was a divine punishment on his flock for their sins (as did Cardinal Wiseman). Then by 1846 he warned the Government as to the state of Ireland, reproached them for their dilatoriness, and held up the uselessness of relief works expended on high roads instead of on quays and piers to develop the sea fisheries. From England as well as other parts of the world, cargoes of food were sent to the starving Irish. Bread and soup were distributed from the archbishop's kitchen. Donations sent to him were acknowledged, accounted for, and disbursed by his clergy among the victims.

Political matters
The death of Daniel O'Connell in 1847 was a setback to MacHale as were the subsequent disagreements within the Repeal Association.

McHale was a part of a small minority of the Irish clergy who supported the Fenians. In 1863 he sent multiple autographed portraits of himself to the Fenian convention in Chicago which were then sold to raise money for the movement. He held a high mass for the Manchester Martyrs following their execution and in 1869 he was among the only two Irish bishops to refuse to appeal to the Pope to condemn the Fenian movement. In 1874 he supported the House of Commons electoral campaign of Fenian John O'Connor Power in the Mayo constituency.

The 1850 Synod of Thurles emphasised differences within the hierarchy on education with MacHale strongly in favour of exclusively Catholic institutions, along with Papal policy.

During the recrudescence of "No Popery" in 1851, on the occasion of the re-establishment of the Catholic Hierarchy in England and Wales, and the passing of the Ecclesiastical Titles Act that inflicted penalties upon any Roman Catholic prelate who assumed the title of his see, MacHale defiantly signed his letters to Government on this subject "John, Archbishop of Tuam".

As to the Catholic University, although MacHale had been foremost in advocating the project, he disagreed completely with Paul Cullen, Archbishop of Dublin, concerning its management, particularly the appointment of John Henry Newman as rector – a disagreement that handicapped the new university.

MacHale approved of the Irish Tenant League. He wrote to O'Connell's son that it "was the assertion of the primitive right of man to enjoy in security and peace the fruit of his industry and labour". At a conference held in Dublin, there was cross-denominational support for his views on "fixity of tenure, free sale, and fair rent", and these were provided for in the Landlord and Tenant (Ireland) Act 1870.

Vatican Council
MacHale attended the First Vatican Council of 1869–1870. He voted against the doctrine of papal infallibility on the first ballot on the basis that it was an inopportune time to promulgate it; he absented himself from the final ballot, which adopted it. According to Bernard O'Reilly, "on his return to Tuam he lost not a moment in proclaiming from the pulpit of St Jarlath's the dogma ..., which he believed with his whole heart and mind, as he believed the articles of the Apostles' Creed".

A character in James Joyce's story "Grace" tells a garbled version of the events, conflating MacHale with Edward Fitzgerald, another no-voter.

In 1877, to the disappointment of the archbishop, who desired that his nephew should be his coadjutor, John McEvilly, Bishop of Galway, was elected by the clergy of the archdiocese, and was commanded by Pope Leo XIII after some delay, to assume his post. He had opposed this election as far as possible, but submitted to the papal order.

Use of Irish
Every Sunday he preached a sermon in Irish at the cathedral, and during his diocesan visitations he always addressed the people in their native tongue, which was still largely used in his diocese. On journeys he usually conversed in Irish with his attendant chaplain, and had to use it to address people of Tuam or the beggars who greeted him whenever he went out. He preached his last Irish sermon after his Sunday Mass, April 1881. He died seven months later.

Memorials
A marble statue perpetuates his memory in the Cathedral grounds.

The Cork-born Irish-American composer Paul McSwiney (1856–1890) was in the process of writing the cantata John McHale for centenary celebrations in New York City in 1891, but died before he could complete it.

MacHale Park in Castlebar, County Mayo and Archbishop McHale College in Tuam are named after him.

In his birthplace, the Parish of Addergoole, the local GAA Club Lahardane MacHales is named in his honour. The Dunmore GAA team, "Dunmore MacHales", which play underage teams to senior teams, is also named after him.

Works
Among his writings are a treatise on the evidences of Catholicism and translations in Irish of Moore's "Melodies," and part of the Bible and the Iliad. He compiled an Irish language catechism and prayer book. Moreover, he made translations into Irish of portions of the scriptures as well as the Latin hymns, Dies Irae and Stabat Mater.

title: John MacHale


text: User talk:142.150.190.185

title: User talk:142.150.190.185


text:
You Made Me Realise

You Made Me Realise is the third EP by alternative rock band My Bloody Valentine, released on 8 August 1988 through Creation Records. It was their first record for Creation.

Sound and influences
The EP marked a change in direction for the band, where they adopted a noisier sound. Peter Kember, then of Spacemen 3, recalled seeing the band play "You Made Me Realise" at a live performance at the Roadmender in Northampton in 1988, after My Bloody Valentine had supported the Pixies on the latter's first European tour: "They’d transformed. I don’t know quite what had happened, but sometimes bands hit a certain quantum shift. The noise was overwhelming". In a 2013 interview, Kevin Shields acknowledged the influence of Sonic Youth's Thurston Moore and Dinosaur Jr.'s J Mascis on his guitar playing at the time, but also highlighted a change in how he used reverse reverb. He had used this effect on the band's previous releases "Strawberry Wine" and Ecstasy, but "to no great consequence, because I was using it the way it was meant to be used. Then in '88, I discovered that it was extremely sensitive to velocity and how high you hit the string. You could make huge waves of sound by hitting it softer or harder". He also credited starting to smoke cannabis, which he had done for six months by the time of recording the EP, as an influence.

Release
Both the single and EP versions were released on 8 August 1988. The single version was limited to 1,000 copies. According to Miki Berenyi from Lush, the girl featured in the album cover is Melanie, who was likely a friend of these bands at the time. The Mercury Records version of the EP was released in November 1988 and added the tracks from its successor EP, Feed Me with Your Kiss.

The promotional video was directed by ex-Jesus and Mary Chain bassist Douglas Hart.

Reception
The You Made Me Realise EP has been very well-received critically.

Spin magazine called the record "astonishing". AllMusic wrote that the EP "made critics stand up and take notice of the brilliant things My Bloody Valentine were up to; it developed some of the stunning guitar sounds that would become the band's trademark, and features tracks which are just as innovative."

In 2005, Stylus Magazine ranked the title song's bassline at number 24 in their list of the "Top 50 Basslines of All Time".

Live performances
During live performances the band repeats a single chord from the song for as long as they felt bearable, the song descending into cacophony, usually lasting around 15 minutes, although there are reports of shows where it went on for well over half an hour. For the 2008–09 reunion shows, "You Made Me Realise" brought each show to an ear-splitting conclusion, reaching up to 130 dB.

From the 2014 documentary Beautiful Noise, Billy Corgan, on the long noise section played live, said:

It's one of those things where, it was full volume ''and for the first three minutes it's like "oh okay this is kind of cool".  Then you're like "This is really too much. I wish they'd fucking stop".'' And then at about 7 minutes it actually became kind of funny. And about 10 minutes in you start actually getting into it.

and Colm Ó Cíosóig interpreted audience reaction as: ''We hate you. But we have to keep on watching you. Because we can't believe what you're doing, that you're bringing this torture upon us!''

Personnel
All personnel credits adapted from the EP's liner notes.

 * My Bloody Valentine

 * Kevin Shields – vocals, guitar, production
 * Bilinda Butcher – vocals, guitar, production
 * Debbie Googe – bass guitar, production
 * Colm Ó Cíosóig – drums, production

title: You Made Me Realise


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MC Babushka

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. CDC  (talk)  21:14, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

MC Babushka
del. nonnotable. mikka (t) 19:41, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * They got me! It took quite a long time for me to recognize a hoax. mikka (t) 00:23, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep, I think he just about makes the cut. Dcarrano 20:18, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Due to the paper shortage, we regrettably cannot document every person who's ever posted on a forum, but this guy is more than just a forum user. Friday 20:21, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per Dcarrano. --TheMidnighters 20:29, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep MC Babushka is quite honestly a legend within the Oasis fan internet community. He is not just some random virgin browsing a web forum looking for topless women, but rather he has an endless wealth of knowledge for all things Oasis and indie.  Mention you know "Babu" on any Oasis forum, and you will be given instant respect and credibility.  --Scubes 18:49, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean he's encyclopedia worthy. Sasquatch′↔Talk↔Contributions 23:25, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn. and perhaps Friday is referring to the not-paper shortage =). Sasquatch′↔Talk↔Contributions 23:25, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep notable fan. JamesBurns 09:23, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - we would run out even virtual paper if we would mention all the possible forum contributors in all the web forums. (Not to mention that the words could conceivable mean "motorcycle club russian mother" :-7) - Skysmith 10:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep To be fair, Ville (MC Babushka) is actually a real important symbol in the global Oasis community. He used to be a big staple in the Brit Pop scene in the late 90s and was always spotted among the more promenent Europeans during release parties.  He's not just some "forum user" as some people would like to describe him.  I'm trying to look for my article from Q Magazine a few years back so I could show you that he was briefly mentioned in an Oasis article.  It was something about how obessesive he was with the band and how he wouldn't eat/sleep until they came to Helsinki to perform.  Out of sympathy, the band invited him to a few parties and shows in the UK and that's when he started to get some attention.  I think he's a small part of British pop culture, but I vote he stays TheSunTheSea
 * A groupie is a groupie is a groupie. nothing notable. Every band of some notability has obssessive fans, who know how often every band member takes a leak per day. There is no notability in this. mikka (t) 19:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Non-notable. Xoloz 17:55, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep.. the man is a legend. Unsigned vote by -- Sasquatch′↔Talk↔Contributions 23:00, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete --Irpen 00:35, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

In regards to Mikka's comments: Yes, I agree that a groupie is not notable enough to be featured on an encyclopedia, but when a band such as Oasis dedicates a song to a person such as Ville, I think it's quite notable. How many "groupies" do you know of that have a song dedicated to them? In case you're wondering, Oasis wrote a song a few years ago called "Wonderwall". I suggest you check it out --TheSunTheSea

KEEP! How dare you consider even deleting this page. Ville is a legend and a godsend and w/out question a reason for Oasis' career lasting so on. He also is a legend in the wrestling circle. Back in 1999 the WWF was doing a house show in Turku, Finland. Babu was there and The Big Show was doing a fan challenge and he got into the ring and CHOKESLAMMED the 7 foot, 500+ pound Big Show. This would not only be a disservice to virgins and Oasis fans everywhere, but to humankind itself. Keep MC Babushka. He's also a musical artist and has created several albums, mostly of Finnish bippity boppity crap music, but he tries at least. ( unsigned; by User:69.248.221.16. mikka (t) 00:29, 19 July 2005 (UTC) )

OK guys, you have had your share of giggle and thrill in making fools of us. How about writing something useful for a change? mikka (t) 00:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmm...I don't think this Mikka character is for real. Seriously though, the facts I mentioned alone merits MC Babushka's spot on Wikipedia. That's just my two cents. -- TheSunTheSea

KEEP IT! :)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:Male reproductive system

Language, grammar and confusing sentence structure
Sections of this article read like they were partially translated from another language or were modified by another user that did not have strong editing skills. It is difficult to cite examples of this, as I am not knowledgeable enough about the subject matter to know how it should read. Hopefully, by posting this, someone with knowledge of human anatomy and the requisite abilities to convey it properly in the English language will become aware of the need for editing on this page. I would do so myself if I had enough training in the field of human reproductive physiology.

Should someone encounter this who possesses the biological knowledge but is simply unable to communicate it effectively, please contact me. We could work together to resolve the issues.

Chrystie Fox (talk) 09:45, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Agreed, Chrystie Fox. There is some awkward wording. I don't have the subject matter expertise to fix it, either. SunCrow (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Clarification needed
Under "sexual determination", the following sentence is unclear:
 * "Genetic sex determines whether the gonads will be testes or ovaries. In the developing embryo if the testes are developed, it will produce and secrete male sex hormones during late embryonic development and cause the secondary sex organs of the male to develop".

I cannot access the source. Could someone please clarify? SunCrow (talk) 09:02, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
 * where is the unclarity? Except perhaps unclear antecedent of 'it', this makes sense to me. --2607:FEA8:D5DF:1AF0:55C8:168B:3E4C:23FB (talk) 23:37, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Non Inclusive Title
Critical gender studies proves that not all males have penises and some female people, nonbinary people and gender nonconforming people have penises. The word Male should be removed and replaced with Penis. 88.106.238.93 (talk) 15:24, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * See Village pump (proposals)/Archive 161. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 18:32, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Critical gender studies don't prove anything, they just state ideologies. This is a scientific article.  I presume there are other places for ideological assertions. --2607:FEA8:D5DF:1AF0:55C8:168B:3E4C:23FB (talk) 23:39, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

FTW there are intersex individuals: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex BlackAdvisor (talk) 01:51, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

 * FWIW, I meant BlackAdvisor (talk) 10:31, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
 * This article's title is also non-inclusive of non-human male reproductive systems. Since humans are not the only vertebrates that have male reproductive systems, shouldn't the article be titled "human male reproductive system" instead of "male reproductive system?" Jarble (talk) 18:35, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

"Cum factory" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Cum factory. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 July 21 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.  Eostrix  (🦉 hoot hoot🦉) 06:21, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Male reproductive system
How does it work? 41.114.176.40 (talk) 23:38, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Male reproductive system


text:
Brandon Call

Brandon Spencer Lee Call is an American former television and film actor. He played Hobie Buchannon in the first year of Baywatch and J.T. Lambert on Step by Step.

Career
While still in childhood, Call began acting in 1984. His first roles were guest spots on Simon & Simon and Hotel. His film debut was voicing "Fairy #1" in Disney's The Black Cauldron in 1985. Also in 1985, he landed a recurring role on the NBC daytime drama, Santa Barbara. During his stint on Santa Barbara, he earned two Young Artist Awards for the role. After leaving the series in 1987, he guest-starred on two episodes of St. Elsewhere; he also co-starred with fellow soap opera veteran Christopher Rich on the short-lived series The Charmings. In 1989, Call was cast as Hobie Buchannon for the maiden season of NBC's Baywatch, which passed into syndication the following year. Call left the show to concentrate on his studies.

In 1990, Call returned to films with Blind Fury, in which he co-starred opposite Rutger Hauer. A year later, Call starred with Andrew Dice Clay in The Adventures of Ford Fairlane; he also appeared in For the Boys starring Bette Midler.

Before the close of 1991, Call was cast as John Thomas "J.T." Lambert on the ABC sitcom Step by Step, which moved to CBS in 1997 for its final season, after which Call retired from acting.

Shooting
After taping an episode of Step by Step on September 3, 1996, Call got into a traffic dispute while driving home. He was shot in both arms by Tommy Eugene Lewis. Call was treated at the UCLA Medical Center and made a full recovery.

Film

 * 1985: The Black Cauldron – Fairfolk (Voice)
 * 1985: Jagged Edge – David Barnes
 * 1989: Blind Fury – Billy Devereaux
 * 1989: Warlock – Unbaptized Young boy
 * 1990: The Adventures of Ford Fairlane – The Kid
 * 1991: For the Boys – Danny Leonard (at 12), New York

Television

 * 1984: Simon & Simon – Addie Becker's Son (1 episode)
 * 1984: Hotel – Timmie (1 episode)
 * 1985: Slickers (Television movie) – Scooter Clinton
 * 1985: I Dream of Jeannie... Fifteen Years Later (Television movie) – Tony Jr. (Age 7)
 * 1985–1987: Santa Barbara – Brandon Capwell
 * 1985–1988: Magnum, P.I. – Billy, Karen's son (3 episodes)
 * 1986: The Richest Cat in the World (Television movie) – Bart
 * 1986: Life with Lucy – Max (2 episodes)
 * 1987–1989: St. Elsewhere – Christopher McFadden (2 episodes)
 * 1987: Webster – Ricky Johnson (1 episode)
 * 1987: Trying Times – Reggie (1 episode)
 * 1987–1988: The Charmings – Thomas Charming (19 episodes)
 * 1988: Something Is Out There – Joey (2 episodes)
 * 1989: The Gifted One (Television movie) – Michael (age 10)
 * 1989–1990: Baywatch – Hobie Buchannon (22 episodes)
 * 1991–1998: Step by Step – John Thomas "J.T." Lambert
 * 1994: Thunder in Paradise – Zach (2 episodes)

title: Brandon Call