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Talk:Wolverine (character)/Archive 1

Page name
"Wolverine (Marvel Character)"? The standard seems to be either "SomeCharacter (superhero)", "SomeCharacter (Marvel Comics)" or "SomeCharacter (comics)", so it should probably get moved to one of those. I personally favor simplicity, i.e. the last in this case, except for true name collisions (such as Captain Marvel). ("superhero" I think is not so useful because some characters fall on the edge of being a hero or villain.) -mhr 04:06, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Exactly! I've considered some of those same points. See Talk:List_of_Marvel_Comics_characters. --Lowellian 04:45, Nov 25, 2003 (UTC)

immortality
"I don't like how it was made clear before my correction that Wolverine is not immortal. In Wolverine #175 and #176 Wolverine dies and then is revived. In the currently unfinished Venom mini-series Wolverine survives an atomic bomb, and on many, many occasions he has been set on fire or bled profussaly." (unsigned, left by User:24.174.216.231 00:41, 12 December 2003)

Vital Statistics
I removed the following from the article because I really don't think RPG stats belong in Wikipedia. Since large numbers of these "vital stats" sections have been added to various articles, I'm using Talk:Strength level (comics) to discuss this issue in general. Bryan 08:33, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Vital Statistics

 * Name: Logan, possibly James Howlett
 * Aliases: Weapon X, Patch, Death
 * Group Affiliation: X-Men, Alpha Flight, Fantastic Four (back-up roster)
 * Height: 5' 3"
 * Weight: 300 lbs. (195 lbs plus skeleton)
 * Eyes: Brown
 * Hair: Dark
 * Intelligence Level- Above Normal or Greater
 * Strength Level- Enhanced Human (can military press 800 lbs.)
 * Reflexes- Enhanced Human
 * Agility- Enhanced Human
 * Endurance- Superhuman Regenerative
 * Stamina- Metahuman
 * Speed- Athlete

 * Special Skills and Abilities: Speaks several languages fluently. Skilled pilot.  Skilled in virtually all fighting styles known on Earth.  Extensively trained in covert operations such as assassination, computer hacking, and survelliance.  These abilities suggest high intelligence and keen intuitive powers.

 * Special Powers: Possesses an unbreakable skeleton reinforced with adamantium and 6 retractable adamantium claws (3 on each hand) that can cut through any substance. Adamantium is a significant advantage in that it is virtually unbreakable.  Additionally, a blow from Wolverine is weighted (like being struck by a steel pipe). Superhuman regenerative healing factor allows for Wolverine to heal from injuries nearly instantaneously.  He is immune to poisons, disease, and natural fatigue.  The aging process is retarded in his physiology to an unknown extent, resulting in extended longevity.  It has been speculated that he is older than 120 years. Possesses olfactory sense only slightly less developed than that of Daredevil, as such Wolverine can track a human as a dog could, and can see in the dark.

"superhuman powers"
I've just cleaned up this section's factual innaccuracies and redundancy. There may be a lot I've missed. (unsigned, left by User:195.92.67.67 07:13, 28 December 2004)

 * 1) 450's. Anyhow, his bone claws were incapable of penetrating the Hulk's hide. However, in Incredible Hulk #340 Wolverine's claws were infused with Adamantium and went through the Hulk as if he were made of butter. Another example of that would be Wolverine #145. During an issue of the "Secret Wars" storyline that took place in 1980 I believe, Wolverine's Adamantium claws were able to slice the Silver Surfer wide open. During the recent Thor storyline where Thor, empowered by the Odinpower, and the Asgardians were in control of Earth, Wolverine's Adamantium claws cut out Thor's left eye and sliced his left arm clean off. Ummm...let's see....I believe that it was in Fantastic four #170 that Wolverine's Adamantium claws, easily, slashed the Thing across the face. The Thing wore a kind of hood over his face for several gay issues after that until the slash wounds were healed. As far as materials go, I've seen Wolverine's Adamantium claws cut any solid material ever put before them. The Sentinels are composed of highly durable materials, some plastics and metals, but they've never proven much of a problem, nor has Iron Man's armor, nor have various types of blades and guns, etc. The only material that I've observed to be resistant to Wolverine's claws is Adamantium itself

All these individuals are some of the physically toughest in the Marvel Universe. Their bodies are much much tougher, especially the Hulk and the Surfer, than conventional materials and it's doubtful that Wolverine's bone claws could cause much, if any, damage to them.

As far as Wolverine possessing, or not possessing, superhuman strength, that's a matter that can be easily debated. I personally believe he possesses some degree of enhanced strength, with the Adamantium-infused skeleton. In the first issue of his monthly comic book series back in 1988, Wolverine lifted what appears to be at least a half dozen men above his head and supports their weight, with only one arm. Now, if each one of those men weighs somewhere between 150 and 200 pounds, that would indicate that Wolverine is supporting somewhere between 900 and 1,200 pounds on one arm. During the late 90's, there was a Wolverine one shot titled "Wolverine: Black Rio". Wolverine was captured and chained to a wall by a vampire female named Ezra. Wolverine ripped the chains out of the wall before going on to overpower her.

Granted, demonstrations of any degree of superhuman strength from Wolverine is extremely rare, mostly because he relies on physical toughness, ferocity, and skill rather than strength, kinda like Sabretooth. Wolverine is no great powerhouse, but I feel he's stronger than lots of readers often believe. Thanks for listening to me ramble, this is a lotta fun. :)   (unsigned, left by User:IRON^HAND 04:07, 31 March 2005)

 * I wouldn't be surprised if most or all of the anon-added "Superhuman Powers" sections are directly copied from a Handbook or Marvel Encyclopedia. I've reverted several such additions and rewritten the relevant sections so as to not be actual or potential copyvios. -Sean Curtin 01:46, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Trimmed it down substantially, while keeping most of the info SoM 15:39, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Where you get the idea that all or most of the information I added necessarily had to be "directly copied" from the Handbooks, I don't know. You certainly didn't provide any reasoning for this quite serious accusation, and any reading of the Handbooks will show that very little of what I added was from them, and what little that was was rewritten in my own words, and with proper attribution, which makes it nowhere near anything resembling copyright violation, unless you're prone to simply making up your own definitions of copy vio. -Nightscream (as User:198.31.189.134)

 * For the record, if you look, that post predates your first edit - is the edit I was referring to. And it's considered rude to post as an anon if you have a ID already.

 * I (and other people) keep editing yours down because it's too long, unreadable and unencyclopediac. - SoM 17:03, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion as to the post. As for anonymity, I did not post anonymously on purporse. I signed up for an account, and assumed I was visible with my username. Wikipedia is not very user-friendly with respect to how to use its various utilities, or how to communicate to others, so I don't know why I wasn't visible as Nightscream. As for my additions, it is not too long, it is most certainly not "unreadable" and whether it is "unencyclopedic" is entirely a matter of your opinion. Encyclopedias should ideally contain as much pertinent information as possible, and that's all I did. The only people who may find it "unreadable" are illiterates who hate reading. Assertions of its length or other whimsical statements are entirely a matter of opinion. Wikipedia should diplay as much information as possible for those who want it. Not simply fit the tastes or vanities of one individual user. When I added a section on Alleged Continuity Problems to the "Star Trek Enterprise" page, it wasn't deleted; someone simply moved it to its own linked page. Discussions of the contradictions of Wolverine's healing factor or strength could've been dealt with thus, instead of with blatant censorship. (unsigned, posted by User:198.31.189.134 22:17, 1 April 2005)

 * Fairly obvious - he cut through the muscle, tendons, cartlege (sp?), etc holding the bones together. He wouldn't have to slice the bones themselves for it to work.
 * Oh, and please sign your posts on Talk pages in future, huh. - SoM 01:23, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Another strange aspect of Wolverine's powers and attributes can be found in the Ultimate X-Men series, where Ultimate Wolverine chops off Ultimate Sabretooth's head. How could he cut through an adamantium-laced neck with adamantium claws? (Ultimate X-Men Vol. 6 (Millar/ Kubert): Return of the King #26-33) Yet he could not cut through the adamantium bars on his cell in (Ultimate X-Men Vol. 1 (writer: Millar/ artist: Kubert): The Tomorrow People #1-6) (unsigned, left my User:Morpheus2004 on 01:19, 13 April 2005)

Claws: bone or adamantium?
Are Wolverine's claws made of "the same dense bone as the rest of his skeleton," or are they adamantium? The description of the "Origin" comic implies that Wolverine was born with his claws or developed them naturally. Are they bone plated with adamantium? I imagine this whole thing may involve some retroconning... like his claws were initially concieved as an adamantium addition, but Origin made them bone. TomTheHand 17:48, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * That retcon came about long before Origin. There was a sort-of hint in Weapon X itself (the scientists are confused about the adamantium pooling in his forearms), and it's made 100% clear in Fatal Attractions when Magneto actually rips the metal from his body. He spent about 6 years (real time, not comic-time) with bone claws (& bone skeleton) before he got new metal for good. They're admantium-laced bone like the rest of his skeleton. SoM 17:57, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

In the wepon X miniseries by Barry Windsor Smith there is a CT scan of his forearm and the Professor states that the claws are fused to muscle and tissue. That is the first mention of this retcon.

When Chris CLaremont was writing X-Men he consistantly described the Claws as "pure adamantium claws in a bionic housing in his forearm". Furthermore, when wolverine was torched by a Sentinel in the original "Days Of Future Past" you can clearly see a "terminator" like robotic skeleton with the bionic housing plainly visible.

If Chris Claremont wrote a Wolverine origin i feel he would have stayed with this line of thinking as opposed to the "bone claw" scenario.- Bryan Cicalese(Comic Dork)

Anti Hero Stuff.
As far as I'm concerned, Wolverine is only  one  more Anti Hero. There have been anti heroes as far back as Batman, Batman himself being THE anti hero... For more examples, check out Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer or Tiger Mann; The Incredible Hulk is a glowing 'example of an anti hero.' (unsigned, left by User:Michael Reiter on 15:07, 1 May 2005)

Adamantium Inconsistencies
Wolverine being able to decapitate Sabretooth in Ultimate X-Men is another example of something extraorinary happening without any sort of explanation. Adamantium is the most durable material in the Marvel Universe. Period. In the mainstream Marvel Universe, Adamantium is the only substance that I've seen that Wolverine's Adamantium claws can't cut. Sabretooth being decapitated was probably just a mistake that happened because nobody checked things out. Adamantium can't hurt Adamantium. That's just how it's supposed to be. (unsigned, left by User:IRON^HAND on 03:06, 16 May 2005)

 * 1) Ultimate Universe, not MU.
 * 2) Millar established adamantium in the UU - ergo he could do whatever he wanted with it (and it was explicitly described as semi-indestructible (not that that makes any particular sense, but the intention that it's not completely indestructible is clear).
 * 3) He probably cut through the stuff between/around the bones anyway.
 * 4) Sign your posts. - SoM 17:41, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Anti-Heroes
To me, an anti-hero is somebody that can be just as easily labled a criminal as the criminals that he or she is against and will attack those criminals with lethal force if necessary. Wolverine is the definition of an anti-hero in comic books. From his appearance, to his speech, to his attitude, to his mannerisms, to his point of view on justice, he is the polar opposite of what a classic superhero is supposed to be. To me, an anti-hero is someone that believes and persues justice even when it conflicts with the acceptable law enforcment and judical practices. To them, simply because it's law doesn't make it justice.

Characters like Batman don't fit that same mold. Batman will not kill his opponents, despite the consequences he might face on down the line. Batman is practically endorsed by the Gotham City Police Department and the governments of DC Comics' version of Earth. Like Superman, Wonder Woman, and the other members of the Justice League of America, Batman is praised as a champion for truth and justice. True, he's not nearly as reveared as many of his fellow League members, but he's far more respected in his universe than Wolverine is in his.

An anti-hero could be considered another kind of villain, just depends on your point of view. In real life, some would consider a man like The Punisher to be a hero on a personal crusade against crime. Some would applaud his ultra-violent method of dealing with dangerous criminals that would as likely try to end his life, or the lives of innocent people, as to give him the time of day. Some would consider him to be a monster no better than the criminal element he wages war against, a violent psychopath that should be kept in a padded room for the rest of his life. The Punisher, Wolverine, Elektra, Lobo, Deadpool, and numerous others could be placed in this category. In comic books, any mentally unhinged individual can put on some unusual costume and spend his or her life fighting "evil", but only a certain few can descend to the same level as that "evil" and do whatever is necessary to take it out. (unsigned, left by User:IRON^HAND on 03:06, 16 May 2005)

Xavier Protocols
Charles Xavier's dream is a world of peaceful coexistence between superhuman mutants and ordinary humans and has even taken precautions against those, namely his X-Men and the various X-teams that he has been associated with over the years. The Xavier Protocols act as a kind of failsafe to use against himself or his associates should they ever become a danger to humanity and/or life itself. Evidently, there are over 200 entries with one file for each of the X-Men and the spin-off X-teams. The files contain both the known weaknesses of the subjects, but also recommends strategies for the fastest and most efficient means of killing them.

These files were first mentioned in Uncanny X-Men #335 and were first accessed in Excaliber #100. Only three of the files were fully shown and the files were those of Xavier himself, Cable, and Wolverine. Wolverine's file read as follows:

"Since the loss of his Adamantium, Wolverine has become more and less of a threat. He is divested of his unbreakable skeleton- but his senses and his mutant healing factor have increased to, even more, incredible levels. What might have been a lethal wound to Wolverine three years ago would now be a momentary annoyance. Any assault on Wolverine, in the event of his sanity breaking, would have to be long-range and decisive. His head would have to be severed, and removed utterly from the vicinity of his body to prevent swift flesh and nerve regrowth."

Xavier wrote this file sometime after Magneto magnetically ripped the Adamantium from Wolverine's skeleton and after his healing factor began to develop beyond it's original levels. Wolverine's healing factor is hindered somewhat by the presence of the Adamantium in his body. Wolverine's body was able to heal somewhat faster just prior to his skeleton becoming bonded to Adamantium once again at the hands of Apocalypse and is slightly slower now, but still works faster than when Wolverine's bones were first infused with the alloy. Since his skeleton is once again bonded with Adamantium, Xavier's strategy of decaptitating Wolverine is now useless and it's not known if Xavier updated the file and formed a new strategy or even if he still has the files at all. (unsigned, left by User:IRON^HAND on 18:49, 18 May 2005) (User:SoM later removed this section)

History
(From Marvel.com--perhaps some chap could make this not violate copyright?)

"James Howlett, the mutant now known as Wolverine, was born into privilege in Alberta, Canada, during the late 19th century, the second son of John and Elizabeth Howlett. Young James' mother was distant and remote due to the untimely death of her first son. Growing up, the sickly James was close friends with the red-headed Rose, his companion and tutor, and 'Dog,' the son of the Howlett's cruel groundskeeper Thomas Logan." "Dog's growing obsession with Rose finally prompted him to attack her -- forcing James' father to fire Thomas, and evict him and Dog from their home on the Howlett estate. The groundskeeper and his son stole into the mansion the next night and attempted to convince Mrs. Howlett to leave with them. Apparently, Thomas and Elizabeth Howlett had been engaged in an ongoing affair. When John Howlett interrupted their discussion, Thomas shot and killed his former employer. At the shock of seeing his father murdered, James manifested his latent mutant abilities, and bone claws jutted from the back of each hand. The beast within the boy unleashed at last, James attacked and killed Thomas, and slashed Dog's face. Completely unhinged by the violence, Elizabeth took her own life. James suffered a severe breakdown; his mutant abilities 'healed' his mind as well as his body, blocking all memories of his last months at the Howlett estate. Because Rose and James were blamed for the deaths at the mansion, she spirited him away to a British Columbia mining colony. Rose gave James the name 'Logan,' so that his real identity would remain unknown. The frail 'Logan' grew into a strapping young man at the mine and became known for his strength and ferocity. He spent a great deal of time among the wolves in the nearby wilderness, discovering he had more in common with the wild beasts than his fellow man. Bullied incessantly, Logan acquired the nickname 'Wolverine' thanks to his tenacity and refusal to back down from a challenge." "Logan's happiness at the camp came to an end when Dog tracked him down. Finally remembering the night of his father's death, Logan fought Dog savagely. During the struggle, Logan accidentally impaled Rose on his claws, killing her. Wracked by grief over the death of the woman he truly loved, he fled into the woods. Logan was not seen again for many years, but the legend of the man called Wolverine had begun. The rest of Logan's life is shrouded in mystery, peppered with half-truths and anecdotal reports of unconfirmed sightings. His healing factor seems to act against the effects of aging -- which would explain why, as a man of more than 120 years, he appears to be in his mid-30s. In the latter half of the 20th century, the Canadian government subjected Logan to a bizarre battery of experiments intended to forge the ultimate killing machine. Weapon X scientists grafted the indestructible metal adamantium to Logan's skeleton and bone claws, and introduced memory implants that shaped his past to suit their ends. Combined with the earlier effects of his healing factor, these false memories have made it impossible for Logan to discern fact from fiction when recalling his former life. He now knows little of his past, save that it was fraught with pain and loss. Wolverine was working as an operative for the Canadian government when he accepted Professor X's offer to join the X-Men. Logan chose to stay on partly due to his belief in Xavier's vision for the coexistence of humans and mutants, and partly because of his attraction to Jean Grey. During his time with the X-Men, Logan has worked to regain his lost memories, but virtually every answer leads him to even more new questions." "Although he would rarely admit it, Logan remains with the X-Men because he feels the team is the closest thing he has to a family in the world. Serving with the X-Men has given Logan what he had been missing for so long: a cause worth fighting for. Still somewhat uncontrollable and unpredictable in battle, and prone to an occasional berserker rage, Wolverine has proven to be a tremendous asset to the team; he continues to make his home in Xavier's mansion. Beneath his brutish exterior, Wolverine will always be the scared, insecure boy who lashed out at the world all those years ago, doomed never to make peace with his troubled past. Haunted by half-forgotten demons, he fights for those who can't fight for themselves -- kindred spirits, victims all."

(unsigned, left by User:206.156.242.39 on 19:14, 1 June 2005)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 21:01, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wolverine (character)/Archive 1


text:
File:Fairuse Gruffalo.jpg

Book cover of The Gruffalo

From the author's website: http://www.juliadonaldson.co.uk/i/Gruffalo.jpg

Fair use for Wikipedia's The Gruffalo article only is asserted on the following grounds:

 * only a small, screen-ready image is presented
 * the image was released by its copyright owner for promotional purposes
 * the work represents only a tiny proportion of the original work (the book) and no loss of income for the copyright owner can reasonably be expected
 * an image which does not rely on the doctrine of fair use is difficult or impossible to obtain
 * a single, modestly sized image of the work is necessary for a proper scholarly discussion of the work, particularly because the appearance of the work (an illustrated children's book) is an important element of that scholarly discussion

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: File:Fairuse Gruffalo.jpg


text:
Bernays

Bernays is a surname. Notable people with the surname include:

 * Adolphus Bernays (1795–1864), professor of German in London; brother of Isaac Bernays and father of:
 * Lewis Adolphus Bernays (1831–1908), public servant and agricultural writer in Australia; son of Adolphus Bernays
 * Edward Bernays (1891–1995), the "father of public relations"; great-grandson of Isaac Bernays and father of:
 * Anne Bernays (born 1930), American novelist; daughter of Edward Bernays and American novelist Doris E. Fleischman
 * Isaac Bernays (1792–1849), German rabbi; brother of Adolphus Bernays and father of:
 * Jakob Bernays (1824–1881), German classical linguist
 * Michael Bernays (1834–1897), German literature historian
 * Karl Ludwig Bernays (1815–1876), Marxist journalist
 * Marie Bernays (1883–1939), German politician and educator
 * Martha Bernays (1861–1951), wife of Sigmund Freud; granddaughter of Isaac Bernays by his son Berman
 * Paul Bernays (1888–1977), Swiss mathematician born in London; great-grandson of Isaac Bernays
 * Robert Bernays (1902–1945), Liberal MP; great-grandson of Adolphus Bernays
 * Thekla M. Bernays (1856–1931), women's suffrage's activist, author and lecturer

title: Bernays


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La Chaîne Info

La Chaîne Info (LCI; English: "The News Channel") is a French free-to-air news channel. It is part of TF1 Group.

History
LCI was launched on 24 June 1994 by Christian Dutoit on behalf of the media group TF1 as a pay television channel. Its launch was also simulcast on TF1.

The broadcast began at 8:30 pm with the live TV news programme presented by Françoise-Marie Morel. The first guest was the CEO of the channel, Étienne Mougeotte.

The channel was also broadcast in Italy alongside TF1 on digital terrestrial television from 2004 to December 2006 on Dfree multiplex.

In 2006, the channel's website appeared twice in the James Bond film Casino Royale, a product placement that the channel says it did not pay for.

On 5 April 2016, the channel became free-to-air and began broadcasting on channel 26 via digital terrestrial television in France.

Since October 2022, LCI, as well as the free DTT channels of the TF1 group, have been accessible free to air, via the Astra 1 satellite. This broadcast follows a temporary interruption in encrypted broadcasting to Canal+ and TNTSAT subscribers, following a commercial dispute. However, despite the resumption of encrypted broadcasts within the Canal+ and TNTSAT bouquets, this free-to-air broadcasting continues. LCI is therefore received free of charge in almost all of Continental Europe.

Current programs

 * Le 6/9, weekday morning news program presented by François-Xavier Ménage and Amandine Bégot (anchors the news), also Audrey Crespo-Mara anchors a political interview and La Vie des Idées.
 * La Médiasphère, a technology program, hosted by Christophe Moulin.
 * LCI et vous, late-morning news program, hosted by Bénédicte Le Chatelier.
 * LCI Midi, midday news program, hosted by Philippe Ballard and Marie-Aline Méliyi.
 * Le 15/18, afternoon drive news program by Magali Lunel.
 * 24 heures en questions, roundup, hosted by Yves Calvi + Magali Lunel (weekdays) and Bénédicte Le Chatelier (Saturday).
 * Le grand soir, late news program hosted by Julien Arnaud and Rebecca Fitoussi, replaced LCI Soir.
 * LCI Matin Week-end, weekend morning news program hosted by Sébastien Borgnat and Sylvia Amicone.
 * LCI Journée Week-end, weekend block programming from 10am to 6pm by Julien Dommel.
 * LCI Soir Week-end, weekend block programming from 6pm to midnight by Damien Givelet and Julie Hammett.
 * Le Grand Jury, a political/economic interview program hosted by Olivier Mazerolle, Alexis Brezet et Christophe Jakubyszyn.
 * Le grand journal de 12h - weekend newscasts at noon.

Current magazines

 * Tout un monde
 * Au cœur de la course
 * Le Live Présidentiel
 * 24 heures, la semaine en questions
 * Au cœur de nos différences
 * Au cœur des régions
 * Politiquement Show

Former programs

 * LCI Matin
 * Le grand journal de 12h30
 * Le grand journal de 18h
 * Le grand journal de 18h30
 * Le 14/17
 * Le 14/16
 * Le 17/20
 * Le 17/19
 * Le 12/14
 * Le 18/20
 * Questions d'actu
 * Le journal du monde
 * Le Club LCI
 * LCA, La Culture Aussi

Slogans

 * 1994-2012: "L'information continue sur LCI" (Continuous news on LCI)
 * 2012-2015: "Mieux que savoir, comprendre" (Better than knowing, understanding)
 * 2016-Now: "Vous êtes au cœur de l'info" (You are at the heart of the news)

title: La Chaîne Info


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Lake Winnisquam

Lake Winnisquam is in Belknap County in the Lakes Region of central New Hampshire, United States, in the communities of Meredith, Laconia, Sanbornton, Belmont, and Tilton. At 4214 acre, it is the fourth-largest lake entirely in New Hampshire. The lake is roughly triangular in shape, with the vertexes pointing north, east, and south. The lake lies along the path of the Winnipesaukee River, which enters the lake from its eastern corner and carries water from Lake Winnipesaukee via Paugus Bay and Opechee Bay. The river also flows south out of Winnisquam's southern corner, eventually joining the Merrimack River. The lake extends several miles north from the course of the Winnipesaukee River, which forms the lake's southeastern side, with the northern point being formed by the confluence of several smaller creeks near the village of Meredith Center. The lake has a maximum depth of 155 ft.

The lake is only a few miles from Interstate 93 via Exit 20 for U.S. Route 3 and New Hampshire Route 11. Winnisquam has two basins, a larger northern basin and a smaller southern one, with a bridge carrying Routes 3 and 11 separating them. The village of Winnisquam is at the bridge.

The Abenaki people occupied the Winnisquam and Winnipesaukee area until colonists arrived in the mid-18th century. Winnisquam's surrounding county, Belknap, was founded in 1840 and named after Jeremy Belknap, a Congregational clergyman and prominent historian.

Lake Winnisquam is home to many species of fish. Cold water species include rainbow trout, lake trout, landlocked salmon, and whitefish. The warm water species include small- and largemouth bass, pickerel, horned pout, white perch, northern pike, walleye, black crappie, bluegill, and yellow perch. Remote lake and brook trout stocking is common when authorities find it necessary.

Ahern State Park is on the eastern shore of the lake.

title: Lake Winnisquam


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Talk:High Tatras

Requested move
The current title, "High Tatra", is incorrect. The name of the range is, as it can be confirmed by Britannica, either "High Tatras", or "High Tatra mountains". Similarly, mountains in Italy are called "Apennines" or "Apennine mountains", not "Apennine". -- Naive cynic 20:51, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

The name is NOT incorrect, it is a very frequent alternative name (even more frequent than High Tatra). I do not oppose the move, but the alternative name version has to be mentioned. Juro 23:16, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with  ~ .

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments.

Historical names
Juro, there's nothing wrong with mentioning historical names. Look at the Lviv page for example:

(Ukrainian: Львів, L’viv ; Polish: Lwów; Russian: Львов, Lvov; German: Lemberg; Yiddish: לעמבערג; Latin: Leopolis; see also Cities' alternative names)

I don't know the Czech name, perhaps you do? — Khoikhoi 01:51, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I just have not noticed until now that we add historical names to mountains (towns are a different issue). Can you show a precedense? Juro 01:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Sure, look at Mount Ararat for example. — Khoikhoi 02:00, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 * ОК then.Juro 02:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Can someone double check?
I got the names of the mountains from a map labelled "High Tatras", but not sure they are all that region. This site lists Bystra as Western Tatras. So I'm confused. Stevage 08:26, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Indeed. And there are more:
 * Bystrá - 2248 m. (Slovakia)
 * Baranec - 2184 m. (Slovakia)
 * Banikov/Banówka - 2178 m. (Slovakia)
 * Klin/Starobociański Wierch - 2176 m. (Slovakia/Poland)
 * Volovec - 2064 m. (Slovakia/Poland)
 * Giewont - 1984 m. (Poland)
 * All not in High but in Western Tatras
 * --Lysytalk 08:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks (my fault). I really suspect it would be best to have a single article on the Tatras, and if and when that becomes excessively big, to break it up. But at the moment, people looking for info on mountains in that region are likely to stop at Tatra Mountains and not even realise there is this page (or Western Tatras etc). Yes, I really think that would be better. Any objections to me merging them? Stevage 02:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Hi there. It's because of what I've just written in 'Tatry' article:

Slovak misunderstanding of the "Tatry' term
Hi there. Surfing on the slovak wiki or any slovak Tatry-associated websites, it's unlikely not to be given an impression that Slovaks mistakenly take whole and entire Tatra range for Vysoke Tatry only. In other words, for Slovaks Tatry=Vysoke Tatry, as if the Zapadne Tatry and Belianske Tatry didn't exist at all. Maybe that's because of the name of the city which lies at the foot of Vysoke Tatry, called Vysoke Tatry (city) as well. The other probable cause might be the existance of totally separate and different mountain range, situated about 40 km south of Tatras, called Nizke Tatry (Low Tatras). As far as I'm concerned, they were originally named Niżnie Tatry, which could be translated into Southern Tatras. The error occured when non-slovak and non-polish cartographists (austro-hungarian) notoriously mistaken original slavic names for geographical objects. And so we had e.g. Velky Tatransky Krivan instead of Velky FATRANSKY Krivan, etc. It's for all to see on the old maps available on the internet.

This issue is being quite problematic, because whilst someone looks for an accomodation in Vysoke Tatry, a given slovak website shows him the search outcome in which there is e.g. Liptovsky Mikulas (which lies under Zapadne, not Vysoke Tatry) as well, etc.

Summa summarum, Slovaks cannot simply distinguish their greatest national treasure being all those amazingly carpathians subranges, a pearl of which being Tatry. Now this is quite sad, because a major part of that beautiful country is mountainous, so theoretically, you could expet the inhabitants to be fully aware of what is what and which range is which. Best regards to Slovaks. Please shift your conciousness in those terms. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.12.91.242 (talk) 12:10, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

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title: Talk:High Tatras


text:
Talk:Khene

Which came first?!?
This article calls the Khene the first free reed; The Sheng also claims to be the first. Which is it? I'm reworking the Accordion and Free reed aerophone articles and I know the sheng is the link to the accordion, but I want the early history straight. --Theodore Kloba 20:51, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

 * These instruments (or, more properly, their antecedents) were developed so many thousands of years ago there is no way to know, so there shouldn't be any claims made either way. Neither instrument exists in exactly the same form it was in centuries ago.  Because China had a writing culture further back than that of Southeast Asia one might think the sheng is older, but then again the Chinese sheng as used in the music of the Chinese royal court could have come from a prototype instrument originating in Yunnan or parts further south (i.e. the mountains of Laos and Thailand), where mouth organs are used as a traditional instrument today in great profusion.

 * Anyway, it's almost certainly not the case that any mouth organ was the "first free reed" as the Jew's harp is a much simpler version of the free reed, not coupled to a tube resonator. There are also free reed horns and free reed pipes that represent simpler and probably earlier versions of free reed wind instruments the same way the Egyptian double clarinet or Greek aulos probably came before the bagpipe.  By the way, I study and play both sheng and khaen.  :-0

Good luck with the articles. Badagnani 21:17, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Capitalisation
Is the capitalisation of the "Western diatonic scale: A-B-c-d-e-f-g." intentional? If so, perhaps a link should be added that explains the significance of the A and B being capitalised. -- Frekja 12:49, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

The A and B are in a lower octave, and the small letters begin the next octave. In the case of a medium-sized khaen with lowest pipe A, this would mean that the lowest note on the instrument is A (two ledger lines below the treble clef). Badagnani 16:02, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Khaen is a very interesting instrument indeed. Although the information provided here stated that the instrument has the western diatonic scale but actually Khaen is a very versatile instrument which can play CHROMATIC SCALE!!!! Not long ago, a wooodwind musician from BSO (Bangkok Symphony Orchestra) ,who was invited to a varieties show televised in Thailand a year ago, had displayed the instrument's chromatical capabilities by performing some jazz pieces (which requires a lot of sharp and flat notes)on it!!He explained that Khaen (pronounced as 'can')is the only Thai traditional musical instrument that can play chromatic scales. I was amazed by that and I believe that there are still many people out there (and even in Thailand)who do not know about this fact, so I'm just dropped by to add new informations to you. Rachmaninoff

 * It is not true that the khaen (the normal 16-pipe variety) has a chromatic scale; it is tuned to a minor scale, starting with the lowest pipe. But there are two chromatic intervals:  between the second and third note and the fifth and sixth notes.  Perhaps the player was singing the in-between notes or (more unlikely) that he had a specially constructed instrument with chromatic notes.  The khaen is also not the only Thai instrument that can play chromatically; the fiddles saw ou, saw duang, saw sam sai, salaw, etc. can do that as well.  Badagnani 17:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Oh yeah, come to think of it. True. Those fiddles can play even out-of-tune sounds so what's the big deal with chromatic scales. But Badagnani, I don't think the guy had either modified his khaen or constructed a special chromatical Khaen. It's the 'method' that he used to play it which i don't know exactly. But I tell you, I really believe it is not impossible to play chromatic scales on ordinary Khaen. I suppose you are a specialist in Khaen or at least must have had much experience on it (or not at all?)and I am a greenhorn in this so unless I've succeeded in playing it chromatically myself, I won't argue no more. I have been experimenting new methods of playing 'Klui' in more flexible chromatic keys and it's progressing. By the way, I haven't been using the 'half-closed' method. Any idea? Rachmaninoff

 * I just played the khaen for the first day of my world music class today. The Chinese sheng and Japanese sho can do microtones by "bending up" the way a blues harmonica can bend down for the "blue notes" -- this is done by gradually removing the finger from the hole.  This can get you up to a minor third bend higher.  I've never tried this on khaen (it isn't a traditional technique) but maybe I'll see if I can do it right now.  Are you in Thailand?  I'm in a Thai ensemble that was the first "farang" Thai classical ensemble to tour Thailand, in 1998.  I'd say it would be easier to play khlui in half steps with the Western-tuned khluis; with a Thai-tuned one you'd be in 14-tone equal temperament -- something we've tried here with piano.  It sounds pretty weird!  Badagnani 16:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I just tried it and it is possible to bend a half step up (but not quite a whole step) by sliding the finger slightly off the hole. Funny that I never thought to try this; it's not easy, though, and unreliable because of the control it takes, because the holes are so small.  I wonder if the guy had enlarged the holes to allow for greater control, like on the sheng, where the holes are at least twice as large and faced with metal.  Badagnani 16:15, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Rachmaninoff
 * =) Yeah, I always feel that the sliding-off-the-hole method is unreliable. I'm a Thai and I'm in Thailand. I never heard of your farang-oriented Thai classical ensemble before (probably it's because at that time,1998, I wasn't in Thailand) But that's very interesting. Are you interested in western classical music and music composition too? (Are you in Thailand now?)

Plagiarism
The section "Mythological Origin" is plagiarized from this page: http://www.ksanti.net/free-reed/essays/khaenlaos.html 66.102.65.42 (talk) 01:58, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Khene


text:
Starkenburg Observatory

The Starkenburg Observatory (Starkenburg-Sternwarte) is an astronomical observatory in Heppenheim, Germany. It was founded in 1970, and currently has about 150 members.

The observatory was the venue for the 1997 and 2003 meetings of the European Radio Astronomy Congress. The amateur astronomers at the observatory have discovered more than 40 asteroids and participate in the tracking of near earth asteroids.

The instruments at the observatory consists of:
 * 0.45-meter newtonian
 * 0.356-meter Schmidt–Cassegrain telescope
 * 0.30-meter newtonian
 * 0.20-meter refractor
 * 0.15-meter refractor
 * 0.10-meter refractor
 * 0.19-meter flat-field camera
 * 0.14-meter Schmidt camera

The two main-belt asteroids 6864 Starkenburg and 14080 Heppenheim were named in honor of the medieval castle, the adjunct observatory and the nearby town Heppenheim, respectively.

List of discovered minor planets
As of 2016, IAU's Minor Planet Center (MPC) credits the discovery of 52 numbered minor planets directly to the observatory (group discovery) including 47 discoveries to "Starkenburg" (1997–2009), and 5 discoveries to "Heppenheim" (1997–2002), for which no apparent distinction can be made.

For the table below, the mentioned astronomers may or may not be credited directly with the discovery by the MPC. Instead, the discovery site/observatory, "Starkenburg" or "Heppenheim", may be the sole credited discoverer, as for 18610 Arthurdent (discovered at Heppenheim by Starkenburg).

title: Starkenburg Observatory


text:
Bettembourg

Bettembourg (Beetebuerg, ; Bettemburg, ) is a commune and town in southern Luxembourg. The country's eighth-most populous commune, it is part of the canton of Esch-sur-Alzette.

, the town of Bettembourg, which lies in the east of the commune, has a population of 9,160. Other towns within the commune include Abweiler, Fennange, Huncherange, and Noertzange.

The Parc Merveilleux children's amusement park is located just outside Bettembourg. Bettembourg Castle, located in the centre of the town, has a history starting in 1733 when it was built as the residence of a farming family. Today it houses the offices and services of the local commune and acts as the town hall of Bettembourg.

Notable people

 * Eugène Berger (1960–2020), a politician and in 1992 became the first Luxembourger to climb Mount Everest

Transport
The commune is served by the Bettembourg and Noertzange railway stations on Line 60, the latter of which acts as a junction between the main line towards Esch-sur-Alzette and the smaller line to Rumelange.

Twin towns — sister cities
Bettembourg is twinned with:
 * 🇮🇹 Flaibano, Italy
 * Valpaços, Portugal

title: Bettembourg


text:
User talk:Robin root~enwiki

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Onlyemarie 20:53, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:Robin root~enwiki


text:
File:Absoluteplanetary.jpg

Cover of the compilation Absolute Planetary published by DC Comics.

Fair use rationale for Planetary (comics)
This image of the main cast of the comic Planetary, Absoluteplanetary.jpg is being linked here; though the picture is subject to copyright I (Hiding Talk ) feel it is covered by our fair use policy and the U.S. fair use laws because:
 * 1) it is a low resolution copy of a digitally released representation of a cover to one collection of the series;
 * 2) it does not limit the copyright owner's rights to sell the comic strip story itself or representations of the cover in any way;
 * 3) copies could not be used to make illegal copies of the cover artwork in another comic book or cover  collection;
 * 4) the image is significant because it is by the artistic creator, John Cassaday;
 * 5) the image illustrates the cast of the comic book in question, and as such discussed in the article;
 * 6) the image allows the reader to understand the nature of the characters and the work;
 * 7) the image illustrates points made within the article regarding the artistic style used within the work

Fair use rationale for John Cassaday
This image of the main cast of the comic Planetary, Absoluteplanetary.jpg is being linked here; though the picture is subject to copyright I (Hiding Talk ) feel it is covered by our fair use policy and the U.S. fair use laws because:
 * 1) it is a low resolution copy of a digitally released representation of a cover to one collection of the series;
 * 2) it does not limit the copyright owner's rights to sell the comic strip story itself or representations of the cover in any way;
 * 3) copies could not be used to make illegal copies of the cover artwork in another comic book or cover  collection;
 * 4) the image is significant because it is by the artistic creator, John Cassaday;
 * 5) the image illustrates the cast of the comic book in question, and as such discussed in the article;
 * 6) the image allows the reader to understand the nature of the characters and the work;
 * 7) the image illustrates points made within the article regarding the artistic style used within the work

title: File:Absoluteplanetary.jpg


text:
Talk:CNBC Europe

There is a news report stating the CNBC Europe will move to full 100% NBC Universal ownership, rather than the 50% NBC Universal and 50% Dow Jones as it is at the moment. Should the article state the proposing full NBC ownership or should it be left until that day arives?

Leave until December - there might always be a hicup in obtaining clearance (though I would expect not) and to say it is 100% owned by NBC would not reflect present reality.--Rdd 16:33, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

CNBC Arabiya
Is UAE-based CNBC Arabiya really "operated by" CNBC Europe, as this article claims? WorldWide Update 15:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Narrowcast programming on Cabvision
CNBC Europe is currently (Feb 2007) being narrowcast on the Cabvision system operating in London taxicabs. This may be worth a mention in the article, if only in the infobox, as a further outlet for the channel Dick G 09:17, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Addition of full schedule
Does the article really need this? TV schedules are generally discouraged per WP:DIRECTORY. The table listing CNBC Europe's own shows was fair enough, but the airing of other programming was adequately explained by the "Rebroadcasts of CNBC and CNBC Asia" section. If people want to know when shows are on, they should look up a TV guide. Gr1st (talk) 11:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:CNBC.svg
The image File:CNBC.svg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --09:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I don't feel that CNBC UK needs a separate article. It's merely a local opt-out, not a distinct channel and everything there is to say about it right now (which is not very much) can be adequately dealt with in the main CNBC Europe article. If they do decide to decouple the channel further from the main feed then there's a better argument for a separate article, but at the moment all that is likely to result is the duplication of material across the two articles. Thoughts? Gr1st (talk) 11:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I believe that there is now a need for a seperate article, considering that the CNBC UK feed is now handled as a seperate, individual channel in it's own right, with its own programming, and its own organisational structure. I agree that local opt-outs are one thing, but this channel has been licenced as an out and out broadcast channel, and is therefore run as such. CNBC UK is different to strands such as CNBC Nordic, which is simply an opt-out with a different ticker overlay, and not a seperate channel.Kevincoy (talk) 21:13, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Does it have its own organisational structure? I haven't seen anything to support that. Gr1st (talk) 22:06, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

 * No, its not a seperate channel, its one programme and some seperate advertising. The presenters who work on that programme are CNBC Europe employees and work on other CNBC Europe programme. It comes from the same studio as CNBC Europe. Presumably, the same production team are involved as other CNBC Europe business day programmes.
 * Far better to create a programme page for Strictly Money for the present and that can deal with the UK opt. If more UK specific programmes appear then a seperate page for the UK feed could be considered - but CNBC Europe has consistantly reduced its European-specific programming over the past few years... Rdd (talk) 13:35, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Europe This Week
Does anyone know if Europe This Week is still being produced by CNBC Europe? I never see it advertised in the schedules any more and I can't find anything online. Was it cancelled in recent years or is it still going? If it's still going who is presenting it? Last time I saw it on TV was in late 2008 and IIRC Guy Johnson and Anna Edwards (née Martin) were presenting it. CNBCwatcher (talk) 17:07, 24 August 2015 (UTC)cnbcwatcher

Separate article for European Business News
I am wondering what people think of the idea of a separate article for European Business News. Currently, if a link for EBN is clicked on you are redirected to CNBC Europe's article. EBN's sister channel, Asia Business News, has its own separate article and I think there should be a separate article for EBN as there probably was one at some point prior to the redirect being put in place. Rillington (talk) 17:28, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:CNBC Europe


text:
Closet flange

In plumbing, a closet flange (also known as a toilet flange) is a pipe fitting (specifically, a type of flange) that both mounts a toilet to the floor and connects the closet bend to a drain pipe. The name comes from the term "water closet", the traditional name for a toilet. Closet flanges are typically made of brass, cast iron, ABS, PVC, and lead. In a typical installation, the closet flange is mounted on top of the floor with the hub fused around the drain pipe. A wax ring (or waxless) is used to seal the gap between the flange and the bottom of the toilet. The toilet is bolted to the flange, not to the floor.

title: Closet flange


text:
Ito

Ito, Itō or Itoh may refer to:

Places

 * Ito Island, an island of Milne Bay Province, Papua New Guinea
 * Ito Airport, an airport in the Democratic Republic of the Congo
 * Ito District, Wakayama, a district located in Wakayama Prefecture, Japan
 * Itō, Shizuoka

People

 * Itō (surname), for people with the Japanese surname Itō
 * Hiroshi Ito (糸 博), Japanese voice actor
 * Kiyosi Itô (1915–2008), Japanese mathematician
 * Princess Ito (died 861), Japanese imperial princess
 * Ito Giani (1941–2018), Italian sprinter
 * Ito (footballer, born 1975), full name Antonio Álvarez Pérez, Spanish footballer
 * Ito (footballer, born 1992), full name Jorge Delgado Fidalgo, Spanish footballer
 * Ito (footballer, born 1994), full name Mario Manuel de Oliveira, Angolan footballer
 * Ito Ohno (大野 いと), Japanese fashion model and actress
 * Ito Smith (born 1995), American football player
 * Ito Curata (1959–2020), Filipino fashion designer
 * Ito Morabito (born 1977), French designer
 * Ito Ogawa (born 1973), Japanese novelist, lyricist, and translator

Other uses

 * Ito language, an Ibibio-Efik language of eastern Nigeria
 * Itoh peony, a hybrid plant in genus Paeonia
 * Indium tin oxide (ITO), a transparent thin film conductor
 * Ito1, an abbreviation of cardiac transient outward potassium current
 * Ito: A Diary of an Urban Priest, a 2010 documentary film by Pirjo Honkasalo

title: Ito


text:
Talk:St. Louis Park, Minnesota

The edit history of this article is not truthful. I've reported it to bugzilla. It's bug #2930. Michael Hardy 20:55, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

What should we add next?
Well, I basically brought it up to par times a million. It's way better then Edina's page at least.

--Elfangor801 21:21, 2 December 2005 (UTC) Elfangor801

We should add something about Beek's pizza.

Amococrash (talk) 01:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)Amococrash

World's first shopping center?
I removed some speculation on Minnesota's first shopping center being the first in the world. See Country Club Plaza, built in the 1920s, for an older shopping district. Catbar (Brian Rock) 21:25, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Greatest. City. Ever.
Please feel free to extol the virtues of St. Louis Park in this space.

Who put that :-p ^?

St. Jewish Park
I know this has been discussed before, or at least been fought over via editing, but I don't think the phrase "St. Jewish Park" should be in our city's Wiki. I don't know of anyone who lives in the city who refers to it this way. Indeed, the only times I have heard it used in actual conversation were as slurs shouted at our teams when I played sports for SLPHS.

Thoughts?

 * I'm probably the only real Jew posting here. Leave it. Why wouln't you leave it? No body is calling anyone, anything, it is just there to teach. Why are people trying to restrict this place, we have freedom of media and info, just leave the "St. Jewish Park" section in. Its not a big deal. There is a whole racial slur page, thats pretty bad. Saying St Jewish Park isen't even a racial slur, so leave it.

 * Well, it's in scare quotes, so Wikipedia is not calling it by that name, but reporting that others have done so. I've heard it used that way jocularly by people who live in St. Louis Park, although it's been a while.  Michael Hardy 23:00, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm taking it that you live in SLP then. It should be there, everyone here uses it and the Jews don't care so I don't see why people come in and randomly delete it every few months because someone in Idaho decides it's anti-semetic.  The Jews don't care, and it's a big part of city identity!

I do not now live in St. Louis Park, but I did in the past. Michael Hardy 02:23, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with the above poster. I live in St. Louis Park.  It's part of our culture and the culture of the surrounding suburbs, it's stupid when people from 500 miles away come in and randomly delete it twice a month.

 * I suppose it is not actual phrase "St. Jewish Park" that bothers so much as the lack of context, and the unqualified statement that "Many Twin Cities residents believe that most inhabitants of St. Louis Park are Jewish." This seems anectodotal, and unverifiable. Why not instead discuss the reasons for SLP's rich Jewish tradtion (i.e. the migration from North Minneapolis into Park in the 1950s, the history of tolerance and religious harmony in the city etc. -- I would do add it myself but I don't know much more about it). Perhaps more context would make the term seem less jarring to those who've never lived in SLP? --C.e.worthington 18:42, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

 * "Many Twin Cities residents" may be somewhat exaggerated. My impression is that the further you get from St. Louis Park, the more people are influenced by the stereotype.  I once met a man in Western Minnesota, probably more than 100 miles west of the Twin Cities, who expressed surprise that I had once lived in St. Louis Park and I am not Jewish.  I would certainly not expect that reaction from someone who's lived in the Twin Cities area for a long time. Michael Hardy 16:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not just in the Cities that it's called SJP...the usage has long since spread far and wide throughout Wisconsin and Iowa (and probably California). I've heard lots of people use it, both from SLP and not, both Jewish and not, and it's always used jocularly, not as a slur. Just my 2¢ from the south side of the middle of the boonies... Tom e rtalk 00:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

 * "The city has been comically called St. Jewish Park". That sounds really stupid, plus it's passive. I think all the stuff in here should be summed up in the article. Like how SLP people use it as a joke but farther away people use it as a stereotype or whatever. And there has to be some data on what percent actually is Jewish, it definitely doesn't seem like its 1/3 Catholic 1/3 Protestant 1/3 Jewish. I am pretty sure who ever wrote that just pulled that out of their ass. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.162.40.183 (talk) 01:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

I also expressed surprise when I noticed this article has no mention of its Jewish history. I mean not every suburb in the metro has its own Jewish high school and Hebrew offered as a major language at SLP. I have no concept of how to write this history for it so you natives ought to do it. As for St. Jewish Park I have never heard of that in 22 years here and I use to work in Hopkins. Unless it's been cited in a news story before I doubt you should use it. .:DavuMaya:. 12:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It is certainly used, by residents and others, but I agree it should not be given without citation and context. This article is incomplete if it does not give some idea of the Jewish history in this city, which is much more than a stereotype or phrase. Jonathunder (talk) 17:35, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I grew up there, it was called St. Jewish Park, albeit rarely. *shrug*. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.226.163 (talk) 09:10, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Formatting
So, i noticed that the bullet points of the businesses in SLP are double spaced, but the hotel bullets and city government officals are single spaced. One format should be picked and caried throughout the article, so, for now i am going to change the businesses to single spaced, but please feel free to change it all back if thats the formatting you like. THankszoreos--Geppy 05:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Copying of the history section
I noticed that the History section of the article is copied almost verbatim from the St. Louis Park history page. Also, the picture of the grain elevator seems to be copied from the same source (and not from a U.S. government page, as the image tag asserts). I think we might need to clean this up. -- E lkman - (talk) 21:44, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah so what's up with that infobox stuff??
The infobox is fine, why does someone want to delete it? The info is like six months old.

 * Not delete, just replace. There is an effort under way to merge all of the city infoboxes into standard template.  The infobox used by this article has been merged into Infobox City.  When the notices we're placed on the affected articles blank templates we're left commented out as well.  It's just a matter of copying the information from the old template to the new one.  Se the WP:CITY talk page for more info on the merge/conversion. --harpchad 12:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Template for a U.S. City
For those who plan on editing and expanding this article, please follow the Template for a U.S. City. Thanks!--Daveswagon 09:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

on original research claims
Deducing racial make up by counting churches on the city's website sounds a lot like original research. T able M anners U·T·C 06:42, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Jewish flight from North Minneapolis, strawman "simple stereotype", original research
From article: According to a simple stereotype, most inhabitants of St. Louis Park are Jewish. This is due to former discriminatory housing laws that prohibited Jews from purchasing homes in Minneapolis proper and in most suburbs. In fact, there may be about equal numbers of Jews, Protestants, and Catholics. The city has been comically called St. Jewish Park. The city's official web site contains a page listing 19 Christian churches and five Jewish synagogues. (The U.S. Census does not ask people their religious affiliation, so definitive data on residents' religions are difficult to obtain.) Several problems: 1. The "simple stereotype" is not cited. It also appears to be the strawman justification for the subsequent original research. 2. It is not only due to discriminatory housing laws, though that played a part of a much more interesting story. In fact, many St. Louis Park Jews had homes in North Minneapolis before moving to St. Louis Park. North Minneapolis around Plymouth Ave. had a higher Jewish population density than St. Louis Park. There are two old large synagogues near Oak Park Avenue and Penn Avenue (one at Oak Park and Penn, the other 1 block away at Oak Park and Oliver) to this day. They are now churches, but they used to be synagogues. The Jews fled the area in the 40s-60s due to "projects" (low income housing in modern politically correct terms) being built on Plymoth avenue and racial unrest. This was a case of white/Jewish flight, as the incoming residents of the projects were largely African American. They (the Jews of N. Minneapolis) fled to St. Louis park in part because of discriminatory housing laws, and in part because people of the same enthic, racial, and ethnic groups often choose to live in the same neighborhood, and in part because they did not want to live near African American projects. This is all true--but better yet, it is verifiable by reliable sources (Star Tribune, books) but I don't have the time or inclination to go do the research. For example, see The Jewish Community of North Minneapolis by Rhonda Lewin where it says that out of 16,000 Jews in Minneapolis in 1936, 70% of them lived in N. Minneapolis. Also, a search of old Minneapolis Star/Minneapolis Tribune, now StartTribune should provide ample material. See also, , , 3. Deducing the relative population density of Jews (religious and/or ethnic) by counting churches and synagogues listed on St. Louis Park's website is original research (and faulty research). It has no place on Wikipedia. I hope this helps somebody who has an interest in improving this article. T able M anners U·T·C 13:20, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Where did anyone ever deduce the relative population density from the number of places of worship? That two things are both mentioned in the same paragraph does not mean that one is deduced from the other? Michael Hardy (talk) 20:19, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Typically, a paragraph (-->CLICK ME<--) starts with a main point which is followed by supporting details. The non-fiction paragraph usually begins with the general and moves towards the more specific so as to advance an argument or point of view. In this case, the point of view is to dismiss the possibly strawman argument that most residents of St. Louis Park are Jewish.  If you remove the sentence "The city has been comically called St. Jewish Park," which is ill-placed, you might see the juxtaposition and position advancement more clearly.  In this case, the sentence "The city's official web site contains a page listing 19 Christian churches and five Jewish synagogues" is original research in advancment of the position that it is an incorrect stereotype that St. Louis Park is full of Jewish people, and, in fact, there may be about equal numbers of Jews, Protestants, and Catholics.
 * I hope this makes things clear. If not, click on that wikilink that describes paragraphs.  T able M anners U·T·C 03:56, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

due to former discriminatory...
Thanks M.Hardy for the edit. I followed yours up with some others. The next biggest problem I see is from the article: "This is due to former discriminatory housing laws that prohibited Jews from purchasing homes in Minneapolis proper and in most suburbs."

Again, I think this is an overstatement. See for example p. 107 of The Jewish Community of North Minneapolis by Rhoda Lewin. It alludes to the African Americans moving in as Jews were moving out. It also alludes to racial tension (or tension coincidentally among persons of different race). I think other sources may make a more firm case (as I did in the previous section) that another part of the reason was "white (Jewish) flight", in addition to discriminatory practices, and possibly racial covenanents on properties. It's late. T able M anners U·T·C 06:40, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I just removed the part about being prohibited from purchasing homes "in Minneapolis proper" and in most suburbs because the above source says they were coming *from* North Minneapolis. I probably should have left the "in most suburbs" but the whole sentence is dubious (overstatement, incorrect as previously stated, possibly still incorrect).  Also, I am not sure it was even "laws", so I kept the undefined (it may have just been discriminatory housing practices, e.g., redlining, etc. that kept Jewish people from certain areas of the city and suburbs)  T able M anners U·T·C 07:00, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The city's official web site contains a page listing 19 Christian churches and five Jewish synagogues
I am going to remove modify this sentence: "The city's official web site contains a page listing 19 Christian churches and five Jewish synagogues" because 1 The page is http://www.stlouispark.org/about/worship.htm, I assume. 2 The above page does not indicate that all of the places of worship or within St. Louis Park City Limits. 3 The above page does not indicate the affiliation of every place of worship (e.g., Calvary Worship Center, Shalom Scripture Studies, Twin City Fellowship) While much of this could be figured out with a little research, it would be original research. This would violate, I think, WP policy. T able M anners U·T·C 05:23, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I changed the sentence to "The city's official web site contains a page listing 25 places of worship, including Christian churches and Jewish synagogues" and added a reference to the appropriate page. T able M anners U·T·C 05:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The content of that page has changed since last I saw it. It no longer lists Sharei Chesed Congregation and it now lists some apparently very tiny groups that seem to meet in some small rooms in office buildings or the like. Michael Hardy (talk) 20:57, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * A more recent develpment: Sharei Chesed Congregation has moved to a location maybe two or three miles west of where it used to be, which is not in St. Louis Park, and its building is now a church. It still has cornerstones giving the date of construction in both Gregorian year (1965) and the year in the Jewish calendar (something over 5000). Michael Hardy (talk) 22:32, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Early developments
I had heard that much of SLP was built on the site of an old manufactured gas plant. Anyone know if this is true?--Weetoddid (talk) 07:57, 1 May 2009 (UTC) Silly. You have any idea how big the city is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.158.226.163 (talk) 09:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * According to this article, the city has an area of 10.9 square miles (28.3 km²). Jonathunder (talk) 14:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

I wonder if you could be referring to the Republic Creosote plant, which closed in 1972. If so, very little is built on it—a couple of apartment complexes, I think. Look at this map. The area west of Louisiana Avenue, north of Highway 7, and south of Oak Park Village Drive is where the plant was located. The URL shows much, but not all, of St. Louis Park. Michael Hardy (talk) 21:18, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ....and just to be explicit: that is obviously only a very small part of St. Louis Park. Michael Hardy (talk) 17:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:St. Louis Park, Minnesota