text:
User talk:Javacava

Welcome!
Hello, Javacava, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions; I hope you like it here and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

 * If you haven't already, drop by the new user log and tell others a bit about yourself.
 * Always sign your posts on talk pages with  so others will know who left which comments.
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * Our policies, guidelines, and simplified ruleset
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Happy editing! -->

-- Sango  123  15:32, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page. :)

Template
Everything's fixed now. It looks like Barista accidentally edited User:Sango123/Message, which I use as a template on talk pages by inserting this: == Welcome! ==

Hello, Javacava, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions; I hope you like it here and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

 * If you haven't already, drop by the new user log and tell others a bit about yourself.
 * Always sign your posts on talk pages with  so others will know who left which comments.
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * Our policies, guidelines, and simplified ruleset
 * How to edit a page and write a great article
 * The Wikipedia tutorial and picture tutorial
 * The handy Manual of Style
 * And finally, remember to be bold in updating pages!

I hope you enjoy editing and being a Wikipedian. Although we all make mistakes, please keep in mind what Wikipedia is not. If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to see the help pages or add a question to the village pump. The Community Portal can also be very useful.

Happy editing! --> . Thanks for alerting me, as the accidental edit would show up on every talk page that linked to the welcome. :) Regards, Sango  123  14:35, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Request for adminship
Hello,. I have just submitted a request for adminship, and I would be honored if you submitted a vote. :) Thanks, Sango  123  19:12, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

*Fluffles*
hmm i wonder if there is a wiki page on fluffles and fluffling. I may make it when i come back ;)

PistNBroke

Sango's RfA
Hi, Javacava. Thank you very much for supporting my RfA! I am honored by your endoresment, and hope to live up to your praise as an admin. Sango 123  01:24, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

User page vandalism
You're welcome. Get your A-level results yet? :-) Evercat 18:17, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

WP:MIND 22:25, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
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why and where did you move the drawsheet i created for the shanghai masters i have a good mind to get you eradicated from the site

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ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:54, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Javacava


text: Template:User pt-4

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Template:User pt-4


text:
User talk:Zachsfanclub

Hello. I noticed you deleted the entire content of the Jeffrey star article. While I'm not sure it's an appropriate topic for Wikipedia, you should not delete the content of an article. Please let me know if you need help. DavidH 15:33, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

i deleted Jeffree (s)tar which i had created because i had accidentally created the page for the name Jeffree (s)tar with a lower case 's' i created the new, actual one at Jeffree Star thanks for the interest, hope that helps.

title: User talk:Zachsfanclub


text:
User talk:Flugkupeskce777777777

Welcome!
Hello, Flugkupeskce777777777, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions; I hope you like it here and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

 * If you haven't already, drop by the new user log and tell others a bit about yourself.
 * Always sign your posts on talk pages with  so others will know who left which comments.
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
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I hope you enjoy editing and being a Wikipedian. Although we all make mistakes, please keep in mind what Wikipedia is not. If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to see the help pages or add a question to the village pump. The Community Portal can also be very useful.

Happy editing!

-- Sango  123  15:34, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page. :)

Fictional
Please stop removing that phrase from the respective articles. It makes it sounds as if we're saying that these characters are real. The phrase makes it clearer, and should be there - your original placing of the additional "fictional" phrase in Slitheen was redundant once the fictional nature was established, that was why it was removed. See WP:POINT. --khaosworks 22:57, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

I fail to see your point here. Extraterrestrial aliens are obviously, unmistakably fictional in a way that say the place names in William Faulkner's works are not. Who thinks otherwise? Consider the problem differently. Would it not be more informative to identify those elements of science fiction stories which are real but unknown to most readers as "real" rather than to say that a particular element is "fictional." Perhaps science fiction needs to be treated differenty in this respect. Just an idea. But then on the other hand I do see the value in imprisoning an interesting exception like sci-fi in a deathly embrace of a useless rule made for other genres. Flugku.

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Flugkupeskce777777777! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created  is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the article:

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 22:37, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Robert Gildea -

title: User talk:Flugkupeskce777777777


text:
User talk:Ryanttb

I am talking to myself.

Welcome!
Hello, Mancomb, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions; I hope you like it here and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

 * If you haven't already, drop by the new user log and tell others a bit about yourself.
 * Always sign your posts on talk pages with  so others will know who left which comments.
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
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I hope you enjoy editing and being a Wikipedian. Although we all make mistakes, please keep in mind what Wikipedia is not. If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to see the help pages or add a question to the village pump. The Community Portal can also be very useful.

Happy editing!

-- Sango  123  15:35, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page. :)

Image source problem with Image:Bentley logo.gif
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WATE-TV
If Mancomb is Mark Mancuso, you need to contact me dude! Calvin Sneed: csneed@newschannel9.com Csneed (talk) 00:46, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Thirteen Tiered Pagoda
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title: User talk:Ryanttb


text:
Balanga

Balanga may refer to:

 * Balanga, Nigeria, a Local Government Area of Gombe State
 * Balanga, Bataan, a city in the Philippines
 * Balanga, another name for tapayan, large wide-mouthed earthenware or stoneware jars in Southeast Asia

title: Balanga


text:
The Veronicas

The Veronicas is an Australian pop duo from Brisbane. The group was formed in 2004 by identical twin sisters Lisa and Jessica Origliasso.

In 2005, the Veronicas released their debut studio album, titled The Secret Life of..., which peaked at number two on the Australian Album Chart and was certified 4× platinum by Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA) for selling over 280,000 copies. The album spawned five singles, led by "4ever", three of which were top ten singles in Australia. In 2007, the duo released their second studio album, Hook Me Up, which also peaked at number two in Australia and was certified 2× platinum for selling over 140,000 copies. The album garnered four Australian top ten singles. The album's title track, "Hook Me Up", was the Veronicas' first number one single in Australia, while "Untouched" was an international top-ten hit, especially in Sweden, where it topped the chart for seven weeks.

Following a lengthy hiatus (broken only by the July 2012 release of the Australian top-40 single "Lolita" and various gigs for their fans), in September 2014, the Veronicas released "You Ruin Me", the first single from their self-titled third studio album. The song debuted at number one on the ARIA chart, becoming the women's second chart-topping single and their first to debut in the top spot. It also charted in United States and United Kingdom. The album was released both physically and digitally on 21 November 2014. In 2016, they hosted the ARIA Music Awards. They spent most of the period between 2016 and 2021 releasing gold and platinum singles in Australia, leading to the release of both their fourth and fifth albums, Godzilla and Human, in May and June 2021, respectively.

The duo's MTV reality show The Veronicas: Blood Is for Life premiered in November 2019. In 2021 the sisters competed as contestants on the fifth season of The Celebrity Apprentice Australia.

In November 2022, they signed with the label Big Noise. Their sixth album Gothic Summer was released in March 2024.

Background
In 2001, the identical twins Lisa and Jessica Origliasso made their first demonstration recordings with Brisbane producer Stuart Stuart at Analog Heart Records. Stuart produced an EP in a more electronic style and, a year later, a second batch of songs in the pop rock style that the group initially became known for.

In 2004, the sisters, who were then performing as "The Twins" (and who were being managed by their father Joseph Origliasso at that time), were introduced by Gabrielle McKinley to Robin Donald Smith. Smith was a former operatic tenor who had performed overseas with the Sadler's Wells Opera and at the Sydney Opera House with the Australian Opera, who owned the recording and music publishing company Multiplay Music Australia. After meeting Joseph and auditioning Lisa and Jessica, Multiplay Music Australia offered to sign The Twins to their first recording and music publishing agreements.

After signing the Twins, the following year Smith and Bell, funded by Multiplay Music Australia, took the Twins on several world-wide songwriting trips to Britain, Sweden, Canada and the US in order for them to collaborate with top songwriters in each country to further develop their songwriting skills. These included Clif Magness (who has written with Avril Lavigne), Billy Steinberg (Madonna, Cyndi Lauper), Max Martin (Britney Spears, Katy Perry, P!nk), Eric Nova, Dead Mono and Vince DeGiorgio, where they created a catalogue of over 50 songs.

Multiplay also secured introductions and auditions for them with numerous recording companies, including Sony, EMI, Universal, BMG and Warner Music.

On their return to Australia, Smith and Bell met with the executives at Engine Room (a subsidiary of PBL (Packer) Group). Throughout the year Multiplay then negotiated with Engine Room to contract the Twins to secure a recording contracts with Warner Music.

Meetings were then arranged with Warner Bros. Records in the US. Seymour Stein and senior executives recognised that Smith and Bell had discovered and developed a musical talent, signing them quickly to a recording contract with Warner Bros. Records/Sire America, for a reported sum of two million dollars.

Band name
Regarding how they chose their name, Jess Origliasso stated: "The name is something we thought about for a short time and we wanted it to be a girl's name, but we didn't want it to be 'the Jesses.' We were very conscious of not wanting to make it a twin thing, because we don't think that's really cool."

"We didn't want it to be called 'the Lisas,' either," singer Lisa Origliasso added. "So one day we saw the movie Heathers, and there's a line where Christian Slater asks, 'Are you a Heather?' and Winona Ryder's character [Veronica] answers, 'No, I'm a Veronica,' and so we went with that, because she was this kind of cool, unique chick with an attitude."

Relationship with Archie Comics
When it learned about the group, Archie Comics launched legal action against them for trademark infringement in relation to popular character Veronica Lodge – who is also known for being a female character with an attitude – in an attempt to stop them from using the name. Archie Comics had asked Warner Music Group to hand over all publicity rights and to pay US$200 million in damages. Of this amount, $20 million was for damages and $180 million as a penalty against Warner. In a statement with The New York Times Michael I. Silberkleit, chairman of Archie Comics Publications, Inc. stated, ''The importance is the image of Archie, which everybody knows is good, clean, wholesome stuff ... Preventing unauthorized use of the name will protect both the characters and customers who have paid for licensing rights[...]"

A settlement was reached that included a cross-promotion deal, including an appearance in an issue of Veronica's series. The issue (Veronica #167, released on 1 March 2006) featured the Veronicas in the feature story, What's In A Name?, in which they meet Lodge, perform in Riverdale and spend a day there, as well as a card with a code allowing a free download of their single "4ever" in MP3 form. A few months later, Archie and Friends (No. 100) featured the Archies meeting the Veronicas. The next issue of Archie and Friends (No. 101) also featured the Veronicas, with Archie as their biggest fan.

2005–2006: The Secret Life of...
The Veronicas performed at the 2005 NRL Grand Final days before their debut album, titled The Secret Life of..., was released in Australia on 17 October 2005, entering the ARIA Album chart at No. 7. Since then, it has peaked at No. 2 and gone 4× Platinum. Due to the success of the album, five singles were released in Australia: "4ever", "Everything I'm Not", "When It All Falls Apart", "Revolution" and "Leave Me Alone". The Secret Life of The Veronicas spent a year on the ARIA album chart without leaving the Top 40. In September 2006, the album was nominated for three ARIA awards including; "Best Pop Release", "Highest Selling Album" and "Best Breakthrough Album". They won "Best Pop Release" but lost the other two to other nominees. The girls also performed their 2nd single "Everything I'm Not" on the night. The album was released in the US on 14 February 2006; it debuted at No. 133 on Billboard 200 and No. 3 on the Billboard Top Heatseekers chart. Only two singles were released in the United States off the album. A special DVD was released with the US version as a limited edition exclusive. The limited edition included two extra songs and videos, and was only available online. However, copies have been found to have been shipped to several stores in Australia as well. Other releases in the US include Sessions@AOL which features their songs "Heavily Broken" and "Revolution" live in the AOL studios, also released was The Veronicas: Mtv.com Live EP which also features live performances of their songs including a new song, titled "Stay".

The album has also had success in other countries such as New Zealand where it debuted at No. 5, No. 75 on the Dutch Album Chart and No. 11 in Belgium. Due to their chart success in Belgium, they won the award for Best International New Artist at the TMF Awards of 2006. "When It All Falls Apart" spent a record of 17 weeks of MTV Asia's Pop 10 Chart, in which 7 of them were at the number 1 spot. The song was recorded in Simlish and is featured in the Sims 2 expansion pack Seasons.

Lisa and Jessica are the faces of Choice Calvin Klein and Australian hair product company nu:u. Blender magazine included them in their list of hottest women in rock in 2006. The sisters sang the title song on the short-lived television show Related which had featured songs from their debut album. They appeared in an episode that aired 6 February 2006. In March 2006, their debut single "4ever" was featured in the Amanda Bynes comedy She's the Man. It was featured in the promotional television spots, the film itself and the soundtrack. Their song "Revolution" appeared in another Amanda Bynes film, "Sydney White", in 2007.

The girls also appeared on The Suite Life of Zack & Cody episode "The Suite Life Goes Hollywood" as guest stars and performed their song "Cry". The twins have also created a fashion line called "The Veronicas for Target" which was released in stores on 25 August 2007 in Australia.

On 2 December 2006, The Veronicas released a CD/DVD, titled Exposed... the Secret Life of The Veronicas in Australia which features live performances from their Australian 2006 Revolution Tour and a DVD featuring parts of the sisters' live performances throughout 2005–2006, including footage that had previously not been seen, and their music videos. The album debuted at No. 6 on the ARIA DVD Charts accrediting platinum in its first week. The second week it rose to its peak of No. 3 and was accredited Double Platinum.

2007–2009: Hook Me Up and worldwide expansion
In early 2007, The Veronicas began work on their second album. The album was written and recorded in Los Angeles, California, with Toby Gad, Billy Steinberg, Greg Wells, Shelly Peiken and John Feldmann.

Hook Me Up was released in Australia on 3 November 2007. The album debuted at number two on the Australian ARIA Albums Chart with sales of 9,531 copies in its first week, and was certified Gold. It has since gone 2× platinum. The album became the twenty-eighth-highest selling album in Australia for 2007. Hook Me Up was released in the UK on 12 October 2009 and has peaked at number thirty-five.

The lead single from the album, "Hook Me Up", was added to Australian radio on 27 August 2007, but was physically released on 22 September 2007. It debuted at number five, eventually reaching number one after seven weeks on the ARIA Singles Chart, making it their first number one hit in Australia.

"Untouched" was the first single to be released from their album in the United States, Canada, Europe and New Zealand. The song reached number 2 in Australia, eventually reaching platinum accreditation. The song became their first single to chart on the Billboard Hot 100 debuting at number sixty-two and eventually peaking at number seventeen making it their first top twenty hit in the United States. They became the first Australian artists to have a single certified Platinum in the U.S. with over 1,000,000 paid downloads. It was also their debut single in the UK, peaking at number eight and in Ireland peaking at number one, their first international number-one single

Their third and fourth singles, "This Love" and "Take Me on the Floor", were both top ten hits in Australia and were both certified Gold. "Take Me on the Floor" was released as their second single in the U.S. but only peaked at number eighty-one. On 11 October, their fifth single, "Popular", was released digitally in Australia. It has only gained heavy airplay and peaked at No. 11 on the Australian Airplay Chart.

Their debut single "4ever" was re-released as their second single in the UK and Ireland on 21 September 2009 and has peaked at number 17 in the UK and twenty in Ireland.

In support of the album, The Veronicas embarked on their third Australian tour, The Hook Me Up Tour, in 2007. The tour, which began on 30 November and concluded on 12 December, was held in eight major cities around Australia.

On 16 October 2008, The Veronicas announced their second tour for the album, Revenge Is Sweeter tour, which was their first tour to extend into New Zealand, United States, Canada, UK and Japan beginning on 13 February 2009 in Newcastle, Australia and ending on 25 September 2009 in Manchester, UK   as well as a European promotional tour which included France, Germany and Italy. As part of their tour in Japan they released a two disc compilation album called The Veronicas Complete featuring all their songs from their first and second albums as well as three bonus tracks on 18 March 2009. In September 2008, the nominees for the 22nd annual ARIA Awards were announced, with The Veronicas receiving four nominations. Hook Me Up received two nominations for Best Pop Release and Highest Selling Album and "Untouched" and Hook Me Up (single) received a nomination for Highest Selling Single each. The Veronicas performed their hit single "Untouched" at the event, but left with no awards.

"Untouched" was featured in the popular videogame FIFA 09.

2010–2013: Musical experimentation, secret gigs and split from Warner Music
Writing for their third studio album had begun in December 2009, and recording began in January 2010. The album, which cites influences by classical music, classical rock and pop genres, would have been their first release in over three years. Jessica Origliasso stated that the album was to be inspired by artists The Subways, The Dead Weather, Mazzy Star, Ladytron and Peaches. Lisa and Jessica Origliasso described the album as "[...] a little different from [...] the last two records" and "[...] a pop record [with] different undertones." During this period they sampled 10 different songs live and a few covers for the fans.

Lending their vocals elsewhere, Lisa and Jessica also collaborated with Michael Paynter to record a song called "Love the Fall" for his homonymous EP. The song peaked at number nineteen on the ARIA chart. They also revealed in February 2011 that they had recorded backing vocals for Cherie Currie's new album. Additionally The Veronicas recorded a cover version of the song "Grown-Up Christmas List", by singer Amy Grant, for the Christmas compilation album The Spirit of Christmas 2010.

Lisa also started a group called the Dead Cool Dropouts with her friend Tyler Bryant, mostly done using GarageBand on Mac. They have released an EP of songs, these songs are called: "Write You Off", "Green Eyes Make Me Blue", "Blame It On Me", "Shallow", "Playing For Keeps", "Ju Ju Ya Ya" and "Criminal Heart". In 2013 on Instagram Tyler Bryant and Lisa Veronica revealed that they were both in the studio working on some new music.

In February 2012, it was announced that a release date for the album was "coming soon". LOM was tagged on their Twitter feeds as an important phrase on 15 May 2012. They also indicated the album was due for release in late 2012. On 2 June 2012, The Veronicas revealed the name of the album to be Life On Mars (Working title was; 'The Awakening' and they played with various titles like Death On Mars and Skeleton), and that it was to be released in September or October 2012. Warner Music then delayed the release of the album until 2013, as stated by the Daily Telegraph on 2 September.

The first single off the then-promised album was titled "Lolita". The lyric video was released on 27 July 2012 and the official music video was released on 30 August.

The Veronicas co-wrote and recorded backing vocals for a song called "Back to Life" which is included on EP 16 & Unstoppable by Christina Parie who finished 6th on third season The X Factor Australia.

Due to label conflicts, The Veronicas embarked on a process of making many changes to the album. The release date was postponed, and the content and theme of the album was changed. The girls also explained that "Lolita" was not an official single promoting the new album "It was just a single release for our Australian fans, as it's been such a long time since we have had anything new over there".

On 26 October 2013, The Veronicas announced via their official Facebook page that they had split from Warner Bros. Records.

2014–2015: The Veronicas, record deal with Sony Music Entertainment
In March 2014, The Veronicas started a reality webseries titled Did You Miss Me?. It was later announced that a record deal had been struck with Sony Music Entertainment, and the long anticipated third album was set to be released late in 2014.

On 5 September 2014 The Veronicas announced the lead single for their third album, titled "You Ruin Me", which was released on 19 September 2014. The song premiered on Australian radio on 11 September 2014. On 27 September, the song debuted at number one on the ARIA Single Charts. It is The Veronicas' second number one single after "Hook Me Up" in 2007.

On 21 October, The Veronicas held a private showcase of their upcoming album for fans. The girls confirmed a number of tracks would be on the album, including "Cold", "Did You Miss Me?", "Mad Love" and "Sanctified". They also stated that future shows will be more intimate, "very theatrical" and interactive. On 31 October, during a special album release secret show, song "If You Love Someone" was announced as a second single. The song was premiered on Australian radios on Wednesday 5 November, and was released alongside the launch of The Veronicas on 21 November. The song became a success in Australia, peaking at number 5 and was certified gold. "Cruel" was released as the third single from the album.

The Veronicas were the opening act for the Australian pop punk band, 5 Seconds Of Summer, on the pre-tour for the band's 2015 Rock Out With Your Socks Out Tour. In January 2015, The Veronicas announced that their Sanctified Tour would extend to the UK in March, with five shows across the country. They also did a promo tour around both Europe and America.

2016–2022: Television work, Godzilla and Human
On 19 June 2016, it was announced that The Veronicas would briefly replace The Madden Brothers as coaches on The Voice Australia. During an interview with NewsLimited, the duo stated "Any opportunity where we get to interact with and supporting other artists in any way is exciting for us". This was related to their single "In My Blood".

Their single's music video "On Your Side" premiered on 17 November 2016, the video is written, directed and starred by actress and model Ruby Rose. The pair hosted the ARIA Music Awards of 2016, providing a topless performance of "In My Blood". Social media users gave mixed responses during the night but there was praise for The Veronicas going topless on national television. The Veronicas performed at the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras after party on 4 March.

On 31 May 2017, the Veronicas announced the release of the third single, "The Only High", from their then-upcoming album which was originally scheduled to be released in June 2017, but was announced on 13 November 2017 that they would not release any new material until 2018. On 15 April 2018, The Veronica's performed "Can't Get You Out of My Head" at the 2018 Commonwealth Games closing ceremony. They released another new single, "Think of Me", in March 2019.

The pair planned to release their next single, "Life of the Party" featuring Australian rapper Allday, in July 2019, although this did not occur. In October 2019, it was confirmed the duo's reality show, titled The Veronicas: Blood Is for Life, which premiered on MTV on 10 November 2019. To go along with the reality show the duo released "Ugly" the song which also serves as the theme song as well as where the title comes from.

The Veronicas appeared at Good Things Festival 2019. At their Melbourne date, the duo was preceded by a Facebook event titled "Wall of death when The Veronica's play Untouched at Good Things".

In June 2020 the Sydney Morning Herald reported that The Veronicas were to fill as guest mentors for the ninth season of The Voice Australia coach Boy George, who would be mentoring his acts remotely from the UK because of travel restrictions in place due to the COVID-19 pandemic. The same month, their studio album Human was announced for release.

On 26 March 2021, The Veronicas released the song "Godzilla", which was included on the album of the same name, released on 28 May 2021, which was followed by Human on 25 June 2021. They toured the albums 2021 and 2022 They left Sony Music in 2022 In September 2022 they released separate solo projects, Jessica's called "Seeing Stars" and Lisa's called "Cruisin' On My Own". The Veronicas eventually signed with Big Noise in the US for future releases.

2023–present: Gothic Summer
The duo announced their upcoming sixth album Gothic Summer in October 2023, and released the single "Perfect" on 20 October. They released "Detox" in December 2023 and announced a tour in 2024

Philanthropy
In 2006, the Veronicas joined Steve Irwin's Wildlife Warriors Worldwide, a charity that deals with the protection of animals and their natural environments. The band was also featured in an Australian public service announcement campaign against music piracy targeting schools, labeled Australian Music In Tune. Other successful Australian artists included were Powderfinger, Jimmy Barnes and Silverchair.

Work for this charity has included a texting competition to reach two-thousand text messages in the hopes of raising one thousand dollars. In January 2009, it was announced Jess would pose nude for PETA after getting attention from a member of the organization.

Lisa also marched alongside Drew Barrymore, Pete Wentz, Janice Dickinson, and other celebrities in support of gay marriage in California at a May 2009 March in Los Angeles protesting 26 May 2009 decision of the California Supreme Court ruling upholding Proposition 8. They also joined a "Wear it with Pride" campaign to reform same-sex laws in Australia for the 85 legislative changes made in 2010 to overturn discrimination against same-sex couples and their families. The campaign involved them wearing numbered T-shirts representing each legislative change. In 2010 Lisa and Jessica were honoured as Wildlife Warriors of the year for their efforts in publicizing animal protection and conservation on a worldwide scale. The Veronicas also advocate for Sea Shepherd. They also spoke up against the forced closures of Aboriginal Communities in Australia.

Products and endorsements
The Veronicas range of endorsements have included Australian hair products Nu:U and were also chosen to be the faces of the autumn 2005 promotional campaign for Choice Calvin Klein range. In 2006 they entered into a co-marketing deal with shoe brand Keds for their first US tour. The deal included web promotions and in-store acoustic performances at selected stores. On 27 January 2010 they announced via Twitter that they had signed a deal with cosmetic brand Flirt!, a division of Estée Lauder, to be the faces of their "Rock-n-Rebel" perfume. They became ambassadors for the fragrance with the deal to including a multi-million dollar promotion during mid-2010 which also included giving make-up tips via the Rock-n-Rebel website and judged a beauty contest where young women were asked to submit photos of their "ultimate rock star style".

On 25 August 2007, the Veronicas launched their self-titled fashion line at Target Miranda store and is available in stores around Australia. According to the girls the fashion line was created to reflect their style which had been sought after by their younger fans and what they would like to see younger girls wear. Aimed at seven- to fourteen-year-old girls Lisa described the fashion line as "punk princess, mixed with rock 'n' roll," and Jess described it as "princess and cute." The colours used for their fashion line include black and white and also features cherries, pirate motifs and love heart details. The current clothing range includes day-wear and pyjamas.

On 25 February 2020, the Veronicas released a unisex, cruelty-free fragrance named after their song "Untouched". The fragrance was available for pre-order exclusively through Chemist Warehouse.

Discography

 * Studio albums
 * The Secret Life of... (2005)
 * Hook Me Up (2007)
 * The Veronicas (2014)
 * Godzilla (2021)
 * Human (2021)
 * Gothic Summer (2024)

Tours
Headlining
 * Revolution Tour (2006)
 * Hook Me Up Tour (2007)
 * Revenge Is Sweeter Tour (2009)
 * Pre Third Album Tour (2011–2012)
 * Sanctified Tour (2015)
 * Godzilla V Human Tour (2021-2022)
 * Gothic Summer Tour (2024-)

Opening act
 * Rock Out with Your Socks Out Tour (for 5 Seconds of Summer; 2014)

Guest performance
 * Half Way to the Top tour with Cool Boys and the Frontman (2016)

title: The Veronicas


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User:Ryanttb

This is my user page.

title: User:Ryanttb


text:
User:Bluemoose/stuff

User:Bluemoose/monobook.js

title: User:Bluemoose/stuff


text: User talk:212.10.37.218

title: User talk:212.10.37.218


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Æthelwold (bishop of Lindisfarne)

Æthelwold of Lindisfarne (died 740) (also spelled Aethelwald, Ethelwold, etc.) was Bishop of Lindisfarne from 721 until 740.

Æthelwold contributed to the production of the Lindisfarne Gospels: he took the raw manuscripts that his predecessor Eadfrith had prepared and had Billfrith bind them so that they could be read easily. Æthelwold was one of the disciples and assistants of St. Cuthbert. He is the last Bishop of Lindisfarne to have been revered as a saint. He is often mistaken with his near contemporary, Æthelwold of Farne.

title: Æthelwold (bishop of Lindisfarne)


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Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Washington/to do

 * Eliminate remaining articles below B-Class:
 * There are start-class articles remaining, and   C-class articles as of.
 * Remove references to Highways of Washington State, as it is not a reliable source.
 * There are pages that have been identified as using HoWS as a source as of.
 * Remember, these should be added as an external link, but not to be used as references.
 * Refresh older articles that were written before reliable access to local newspaper archives and the WSDOT Library.
 * Images:
 * Tag all image (not shield) talk pages used in the project as
 * Nominate appropriate images that qualify for Featured and Quality status.


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User talk:Marco Streng

Welcome!
Hello, Marco Streng, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions; I hope you like it here and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

 * If you haven't already, drop by the new user log and tell others a bit about yourself.
 * Always sign your posts on talk pages with  so others will know who left which comments.
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * Our policies, guidelines, and simplified ruleset
 * How to edit a page and write a great article
 * The Wikipedia tutorial and picture tutorial
 * The handy Manual of Style
 * And finally, remember to be bold in updating pages!

I hope you enjoy editing and being a Wikipedian. Although we all make mistakes, please keep in mind what Wikipedia is not. If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to see the help pages or add a question to the village pump. The Community Portal can also be very useful.

Happy editing!

-- Sango  123  15:37, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page. :)

title: User talk:Marco Streng


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Essex v Glamorgan 15 May 2005

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep (more or less). Sasquatch′↔T↔C 00:26, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Essex v Glamorgan 15 May 2005
And basically every other article in the Category:2005 English cricket season matches, which is hundreds of articles. Wikiepdia is not: any spiel that comes out of the mouth of Bob Costas (or whoever his British equivalent is). I think several hundred thousand cricket games have been played in the world (multiply that times the number of sports out there) and we've got millions of poor articles, written in a completley unencyclopedic manner, that made the Tuesday paper and were lining parrot cages on Wednesday. Important games should have their own artciles, but these aren't them. -R. fiend 15:37, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

'Note to all voters: These articles are temporary''. At the end of the season, they will be merged, under the auspices of WikiProject Cricket into seperate articles (here, Essex County Cricket Club in 2005, Glamorgan County Cricket Club in 2005, and National League Division One in 2005). Please take this into account when voting in this discussion. Cheers, smoddy 21:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)'''

 * Keep. We debated this not that long ago. This article is being transcluded in 2005 English cricket season (15-31 May) as a result of that VFD debate. David | Talk 15:41, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Not again...*sigh*. Speedy keep per Votes for deletion/Nottinghamshire v Yorkshire 26 June 2005. Sam Vimes 15:44, 15 July 2005 (UTC) (Edit: I should mention at this point that I wrote this article) Sam Vimes 22:43, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Transwiki this and all other articles on recent individual cricket matches to Wikinews; failing that, do a proper merge . Abstain. (I was unaware of the temporary nature of these pages.) These are not encyclopedia articles. They are news reports. I don't know how many cricket matches there are per year, but MLB plays 2,430 regular-season games. Articles on the World Series and national cricket championships belong in an encyclopedia; articles on individual games do not, unless there's something particularly interesting about them. A и D я 01D  TALK  EMAIL  16:01, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * The articles cannot be merged because they are being transluded in multiple articles. Merging them into those articles would result in duplicate content and would be a maintenance nightmare. Morwen - Talk 16:06, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I see that now. Merging would indeed be messy. A и D я 01D  TALK  EMAIL  17:03, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Note also that the "national cricket championship matches" - akin to the baseball World Series - that Android79 speaks of, do not exist in England - instead, the regular season tables determine who becomes champion. Sam Vimes 16:09, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Then why not summarize the season as a whole? No doubt plenty of dead tree is used in England to describe the progress of the season as a whole and of individual teams during the season. This can be done without describing every match in excessive detail. I'm not very familiar with how Wikinews works, but it looks like there's nothing being added about cricket in England. This sort of content would be perfect there. A и D я 01D  TALK  EMAIL  17:03, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * That is correct, and it is exactly what we are doing - in a format very similar to what dead tree is used for in Wisden Cricketers' Almanack, a yearly dead tree publication in England (yes, it DOES describe every match in excessive detail). I can't see the harm in describing it - it is verifiable knowledge Sam Vimes 19:02, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep james gibbon  16:07, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it seems the other VfD came when I was out of town, and while I try to keep up with older VfDs I do miss some (particularly as VfD is so huge, a reason why I support several new speedy proposals). It seems that the main defense of these "articles" is that they are not to be their own pages but "sub-pages". What exactly is the difference? There's a "/" in the middle of the name? They still come up in Random page searches, they have all the characteristics of "real" pages, but with longer names. As someone pointed out recently AC/DC is not a subpage of AC. That excuse is a cop-out. Are we going to see Giants vs. Brewers April 17, 1967? "Anderson hits it toward the rightfield wall, its going...going... it's good! Out of the park! The crowd is on their feet, Higgins and Maloney are brought home and this game is far from over!" (OK, I made all that up; I know very little about baseball, particularly from the 60's). -R. fiend 16:33, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The main defence is that they're part of bigger articles on the entire season - and because each match is relevant to several articles, (in this case: 2005 English cricket season (15-31 May), Essex County Cricket Club in 2005, Glamorgan County Cricket Club in 2005 and National League Division One in 2005. The reason why they have to be in the article namespace is so that the content can be picked up by mirrors such as answers.com Sam Vimes 16:37, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Since when do we give any thought to what the mirrors when deciding what's best for wikipedia? -R. fiend 16:40, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Ask Jimbo. Policy on images has moved to better suit mirror sites. Hiding 23:29, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * In this case, I doubt it hurts anyone to be helpful to the mirror sites. Sam Vimes 16:44, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The Brewers didn't exist in 1967, and they never would have played the Giants during the regular season if they had. ;-) A и D я 01D  TALK  EMAIL  17:03, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * And I doubt either team had a Higgins or Maloney either. -R. fiend 17:24, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per the last discussion, and "random page" should be regarded as a minor function not the top priority. Kappa 17:22, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete or transwiki to wikinews or a wikicities project. I, too, somehow missed Votes for deletion/Nottinghamshire v Yorkshire 26 June 2005, where I certainly would have voted to delete. Given the split result (quite a few merge, transwiki, and delete votes) I don't find it very useful as a precedent. I do find setting a precedent for including detailed results of all of the tens of thousands/year of regular season sports meets quite troubling. Last I checked the other two sports-related WikiPortal projects are wisely avoiding this level of granularity. Wikipedia is a general interest encyclopedia, not a cricket (or even sports) almanac. Several people expressed concern about this major expansion of Wikipedia's scope on the Village Pump a month ago. Niteowlneils 21:13, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * And the argument you're using against it, that it's too detailed, flies in the face of wikipedia policy, especially . Sam Vimes 21:54, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I obviously failed to make my point clear. My primary concerns are A) These are news items, not encyclopedia topics, and B) It is a major expansion of the scope of Wikipedia at a time that newpages and recent changes patrol are already overtaxed, so more vandalism and patent nonsense is making it into Wikipedia unchecked, and this expansion just exacerbates the problem. Niteowlneils 22:26, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * To A) I'd say that professional sports events have a significance beyond the event itself, and thus should be kept in an encyclopedia, to describe how the season progressed. We are a very detailed encyclopedia, like it or not. Point B) still comes under the No size limits policy. Sam Vimes 22:43, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy keep per last week's vote. --Ngb 21:17, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not Wikinews. --Carnildo 21:27, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * These articles are not Wikinews content. *Please* look at what we are doing at 2005 English cricket season and its various related articles before voting. --Ngb 21:42, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep These are a proper matter of record as is illustrated by the fact that such reports make up the largest part of the contents of Wisden Cricketer's Almanack, and people collect and read Wisden's that are over a hundred years old. Calsicol 22:46, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia, however, is not Wisden Cricketer's Almanack. There are collected weather reports for every day of the year in every location. Are we going to see them in wikpedia as well? -R. fiend 22:52, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Weather reports, per se, have very little significance beyond the day it's collected (although climate observations over a year probably do). Sports events, especially when collected in a seasonal wrap-up, do Sam Vimes 22:59, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * ...especially when collected in a seasonal wrap-up. Good. Why don't you come back with that season wrap-up when you've actually finished it, then? --Calton | Talk 03:09, July 16, 2005 (UTC)~
 * Because the way we're doing it now makes wikipedia one of the most updated sources on this type of knowledge. Why wait till September when the articles are going to contain content similar to this anyway? Sam Vimes 08:16, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * 2005 English cricket season is a seasonal wrap-up (or will be, I assume, when the season's over). Essex v Glamorgan 15 May 2005 and the like are not. A и D я 01D  TALK  EMAIL  04:07, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * No, but they are necessary for the way we're doing it. Well, necessary and necessary - we can remove them and do it another way, but the net result would be extremely similar (except that it would entail more work for the editors), so why don't you put up 2005 English cricket season for deletion instead? Sam Vimes 08:16, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No matter how it's spun, these are news reports, emphemera by their nature. Come back when the season's over and summarize it all for us then. --Calton | Talk 03:09, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. We decided this a week ago. There's no need to re-run the vote, jguk 06:07, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I simply can not see how every sports encounter is encylopedic. Next we can add every baseball game and then football and then socer and so on.  Maybe we need to create a sports almanac?  That's where information like this should be, not in an encylopedia.  They are two different books that serve very different purposes.  Vegaswikian 07:30, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This article feeds into Essex County Cricket Club in 2005, Glamorgan County Cricket Club in 2005, National League Division One in 2005 and 2005 English cricket season (15-31 May), all of which are most definitely encyclopaedic articles. Without this page, none of those articles would be complete, jguk 07:44, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, let's create a sports almanac. While we're onto it, let's create a separate TV series wiki, a separate history wiki (honestly, who gives a toss about what happened at Battle of Uji (1180) except historians?), a separate maths wiki, a separate physics wiki...I don't see the problem with collecting all verifiable knowledge in one place. Sam Vimes 08:16, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I wasn't in on last week's vote either, but I'll support Cricket; I'm sure this is very important and quite encyclopedic to our British friends. Xoloz 16:20, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete: I don't give a fig whether last week some people thought this or that. The fact is that this is a single instance in a season.  We are not a sports site, and we are not going to have a page per game for every sport, every team, every year on the professional ranks, and then the college ranks.  Forget transclusion:  no VfD debate gets to set policy, and that's what you're attempting to apply when you say that this debate is rendered moot.  (Also, by the way, what about Glamorgan v Essex 15 May 2005?)  To even suggest that we should allow this because one likes or dislikes the sport is bordering on insensibility. Geogre 03:38, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, by the way, what about Glamorgan v Essex 15 May 2005?> What about it? To even ask this question reveals your ignorance of the subject you are pontificating on. By long traditions of nomenclature there was no such match -- the return fixture Glamorgan v Essex was played on the 22nd April. (Note, though, that the match is referred to in both Essex County Cricket Club in 2005 and Glamorgan County Cricket Club in 2005). --Ngb 08:19, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I support a policy discussion, rather than allowing a single VfD to dictate, but shouldn't the articles be kept until the policy debate is completed, or at least advances substantially? Xoloz 09:09, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I think Geogre summed it all up. These are not encyclopedia articles --Naha|(talk) 04:36, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: As per Geogre. -- CABHAN   TALK   CONTRIBS  04:50, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This article (although sub-article would be a better word) feeds through to four separate articles (see "What links here"). It is those articles that are the fully encyclopaedic articles summarising the season - see 2005 English cricket season for a link through to all of them. It's quite proper that we should allow detailed coverage of cricket, just in the same way as we allow detailed coverage of Star Trek, Harry Potter or mathematics. Wikipedia is not paper - projects develop (including projects we have no personal interest in). That's why it's so great, jguk 06:41, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete or put in Wikisource or something, per above. Also, this may be grounds for an RFC or Votes for deletion/Policy consensus discussion. Radiant_ >|< 13:14, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Why, what was wrong with the consensus reached the last time we went through this with links from the village pump and RFC and the Watch page? Hiding 23:29, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Nothing, I guess, except that I was unaware that that had already happened. I've checked but have been unable to find a link, could you please provide one. Radiant_ >|< 12:50, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * I think they're referring to Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Nottinghamshire_v_Yorkshire_26_June_2005 Stephen Turner 13:01, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I was unaware that that had already happened> You voted! --Ngb 13:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I suppose majority keep isn't necessarily consensus Sam Vimes 13:20, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * A one-vote majority is hardly "consensus", let alone precedent-setting. Niteowlneils 13:46, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, no need for me to repeat the arguments Tintin 15:02, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Long-term benefit ... will be merged ... get a life ... blah blah blah. Nothing has changed from last week. These articles will cease to be so in time; why can people not appreciate this?  It is true; it is verifiable; the end result will be encyclopedic.  smoddy 15:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Another question I feel I need to bring up: is anyone going to address the unencyclopedic and generally just plain poor writing style of these articles? My Giants/Brewers parody above was an exaggeration, but not enough of one. And I don't want to hear that that's how "Wisdens" does it. As it stands I think most of this info is terribly trivial. Why not do a season wrap-up with a chart giving the teams, final score, etc? The whole "this is part of a larger article" argument is crap. It's its own article, even if it is made into a "sub-page". -R. fiend 16:18, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Can you grasp the "long term" thing? In the end, these articles will cease to be articles in their own right.  They will become part of proper articles, in a good, encyclopedic style, in the fullness of time.  Is this concept too hard to grasp? smoddy 16:39, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. What's the delay? If they're not going to be articles "in their own right" does that mean you will be merging them? Why not now? Why the poor prose? If this is a work in progress and these aren't meant too be articles then why not work on them offline? You seem to be admiting that these are news reports that will somehow become articles (well, not articles, because you just said they won't to be articles in their own right). So what exactly is the deal with them? -R. fiend 16:51, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Can you specify exactly why you think this is poor prose? As far as I can see this is a description of how the match unfolded - yes, it includes vivid adjectives, but as far as I can see wikipedia doesn't ban vivid prose, and the article praises those who did well in the match - by perfectly objective criteria, such as scoring runs and getting people out. Merely quoting statistics and results, now THAT is poor prose (in fact, it's not prose at all...). Yes, it's in a newspapery style, but that's not forbidden either (see Guide_to_writing_better_articles). The only thing it possibly lacks is an introduction to the subject it treats - I can understand that. However, that is because the pages onto which it is transcluded (meaning that the entire content of the page is included) give an introduction to the topic already - it becomes obvious from the context of the page it is on. Reading "This was a game of cricket played in the National League in 2005" in every single section of National League Division Two in 2005 gets, believe it or not, tedious. And, as explained earlier, the content should be in the main namespace for the benefit of mirror sites Sam Vimes 17:08, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete If this is not ephemeral, what is? Even if they're just a temporary stage in a larger project, they shouldn't be in the main namespace. PRiis 23:16, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Again. Hiding 23:29, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete a single match in a season - Wikipedia is not a sports page. JamesBurns 02:06, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Why, then, aren't we voting to delete on Boom Town (Doctor Who) (a single episode in a season - Wikipedia is not a TV page), or Blue (Pokémon) (a single character in a video game - Wikipedia is not a gaming page), or Rita Skeeter (a single character in a book - Wikipedia is not a children's ficton page). As you can see it's easy to quote examples of this from other places than sport -- why is sport in general, and cricket in particular, any different? I really do feel the repeated VfDs on these pages are a clear example of Wikipedia's systemic bias. --Ngb 07:51, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * While I am no fan of the articles on individual episodes pf TV shows, there is a major difference in that these shows are often referenced and viewed multiple times. They are re-run. Many are available on DVD. This is not true of these sporting events (truly importnat games, such as finals, world cup, world series, etc. are the exception, and not included in this VfD). Ther is also a huge differenc in sheer numbers. A typical season for a TV series is about 25 shows. There are thousands of cricket, basketbell, baseball, etc. games every year. -R. fiend 18:10, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * And there are about 30 Surrey County Cricket Club matches a season... Just because this is comprehensive is not a reason to delete it. Your statement is actually beside the point anyway, given that these are, long-term, not intended to be final articles, just a legitimate stage on that journey.  Why are you so sour about this? smoddy 18:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Xaamir
 * Keep May be a single match, but it links to several pages regarding specific cricketing clubs and the domestic championship, and without individual records like this, those pages wouldn't be complete. sdb
 * User's first edit. Sam Vimes 08:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, provided that it gets merged into longer articles and then deleted at the end of the season as described. Stephen Turner 09:49, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Um, who described that scenario? Smoddy sort of haphazardly mentioned something sort of like that, but has declined to go into the specifics. Everyone else seems to be defending these articles as "part of bigger articles on the entire season", which seems to mean they are detailed breakouts, with no scheduled deletion at the season's end. If I'm wrong here someone please correct me. There's been some talk of moving these to "sub-pages", but such subpages are still separate articles. -R. fiend 20:40, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It's the assumption the editors of these pages, me incldued, have been working on for most of the time - sorry for not making that explicit enough. When the season is over near the end of September, we'll do a rewrite and copyedit of all the articles on the season, and then use "subst" or something to remove the transclusion, which will make this article content fairly redundant, so it can be deleted. But I suppose that isn't good enough either? Sam Vimes 20:53, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I completely resent that allegation. When did you ask for specifics?  If you had wanted them, I would have given them.  I also fail to see how it was haphazard.  Do you care to substantiate these allegations, or are they just mud-slinging?  I have added a note to the top of the page to inform voters about the destination of these articles. smoddy 21:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I think this sort of asks for a few specifics, does it not? Your reply responded to a different question, which this talk of "cleanup" and "rewrites" has done something to address and put me a bit more at ease. I still think if these are temporary articles (a concept which is somewhat new to me), they should be either offline or not in the article mainspace (mirrors bedamned, they aren't my concern, Wikipedia is). -R. fiend 21:29, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Firstly, I am not Sam Vimes (unless I am bilocating in South Wales and Norway...). Secondly, I didn't see that.  The options are
 * Have absolutely nothing in the main article namespace until well after the end of the season. This is possible, but undesirable, because we can have something now.
 * Do what we're doing: have slightly odd articles until the end of the season, then quickly merge them into good, coherent articles. That will happen in the fullness of time.
 * Basically, I think this whole ugly affair comes down to a failure of communication of intent. Perhaps this should have been better-documented.  But, as it is, it hasn't been.  That isn't a reason to delete this page, or any other such article.  Eventualism, anyone? smoddy 21:37, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry about confusing you with Sam; this discussion is getting rather complicated. I think this discussion sort of boils down to a question of "temporary articles". As far as I can tell, no such thing exists in WP policy, and this is the first I have heard of it. That is not to say such things are inherently contrary to policy, but it does bring up some questions that go well beyond this VfD. Perhaps that is what we should be discussing, and if so, probably not in VfD. Comments or uggestions, anyone? -R. fiend 16:25, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest putting a boilerplate notice of some kind on each of the subpages' talk pages; there's at least a chance that those would get noticed. Now that I know what these articles are being used for now and that they're only temporary, I have changed my mind. I still think they would be better off on Wikinews, or at least in User space, but I can see that argument is going nowhere. A и D я 01D  TALK  EMAIL  23:11, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * They started out as subpages of 2005 English cricket season, to where I would have moved them back (per Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Cricket) had this VfD not been started. The reason it is done like this is that each report appears in several articles: in the case of this particular one it is in Essex County Cricket Club in 2005, Glamorgan County Cricket Club in 2005, National League Division One in 2005 and 2005 English cricket season (15-31 May). Our intention is to rework each of these summary articles at the end of the season so that each forms a 'season review' targeted to the team or competition in question -- this is absolutely encyclopaedic, an innovative use of Wikipedia and something that *no other resource*, either online or in print, provides. An example of this being done 'the other way' (i.e., backwards, with no pre-existing match reports to work from), is at User:Ngb/English cricket team in the 2000s -- you can see how long this is taking because information has to be dragged in from so many separate sources, and this is for just one international team (international teams play many less matches than domestic teams). --Ngb 21:09, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * As for a way these match reports can be integrated into a good encyclopedia article, despite including match reports written in a descriptive style, see 2004 American League Championship Series Sam Vimes 21:13, 18 July 2005 (UTC) (Edit: although, of course, this is a finals series, the principle remains the same)
 * Delete ephemeral sports cruft. CDThieme 18:42, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per Radient and others. This doens't belong here, where as part of a larger article or not. DES 20:02, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Written in a non-encyclopaedic style; only possible expansion would be the scorecard; this is a 'news item'.  It belongs in an almanac, not an encyclopaedia.  Noisy | Talk 20:16, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - how many times do you have to vote Keep on the same articles? Notable, encyclopaedic, verifiable.  No grounds for deletion - especially when Tom Riddle and Lord Voldemort each have their own article.  Guettarda 21:13, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Six. smoddy 21:15, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, but those two are fictional characters in mass-marketed fictional worlds, and mass-marketed fictional worlds seem to be of similar (greater?) interest to many people than is the real world: see for example Category:Star Wars characters. The power of marketing aside, Harry Potter "sells" much more than do particular cricket matches when all are new; and a year or so from now the interest in particular 2005 cricket matches is likely to have sunk rather more quickly than the interest in Potter's 2005 adventures. -- Hoary 07:07, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * So now we're basing our opinion on what's encyclopaedic on crass commercial considerations? Wonderful. --Ngb 11:51, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll just win that argument by claiming over a billion Indians on our side, ok? Guettarda 05:42, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep William M. Connolley 21:48:52, 2005-07-18 (UTC).
 * Delete Not notable, not encyclopedic, etc. brenneman (t) (c)  23:17, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, *yawn*. James F. (talk) 00:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Boredom aside, transwiki to Wikinews or anyway delete from WP, following the arguments of Uncle G in the earlier VfD debate. Note that although we read there that The result of the debate was keep, the actual result was very mixed, certainly with more votes for a simple keep than for a simple delete, but with nothing like consensus. To take this mixed result to mean "keep" was entirely correct, given WP rules, but there was hardly any conclusion. -- Hoary 07:07, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Suddenly the bordom is back. Monkey Tennis 10:52, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep It is highly inappropriate to keep nominating the same thing in the hope that one time you will get what you want. CalJW 19:23, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep again. DS1953 02:13, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep for now. As long as the wikiproject is committed to maintaining this array of pages I don't see a problem. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:55, 2005 July 21 (UTC)
 * Delete. IMO, this kind of article doesn't belong in Wikipedia. — Bcat (talk | email) 21:54, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Temporary articles
I've created a new heading here to make adding comments easier for we who have size limits with our browsers, and to try to open a discussion of temporary articles in general (see my comments above). I had never heard of such a thing before, and I think it warrants some discussion. While I think this is a good place to formulate such a discussion, I think it should soon be brought elsewhere. If I am incorrect and there is a policy or precedent for temporary articles, please point me in the right direction. Thanks. -R. fiend 16:25, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Almost all things in WP are done without there being an explicit policy saying you can do it. Really, as long as what is being done is within the aim of improving and/or adding to the encyclopaedia, it should be encouraged. New ideas, methods, approaches will be developed as we progress. Whilst they should accord to the normal WP style, we'd be fools to ourselves to prevent them on the grounds that as nobody has thought of it before, there is no explicit "policy" saying you can do it! Our goal is a better Wikipedia, not blind obeisance to "policy", jguk 19:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I think it's a bad idea to have temporary article snippets in the main article namespace. There are ample policies and precedents that describe what a wikipedia article should be--temporary article snippets that do not meet these criteria and that never will themselves be expanded to legitimate artices have no business being in the namespace, even temporarily. Anything else requires a change of policy with a broad consensus--a couple of very obscure VFDs is not enough to justify such big change in what is acceptable as an article. If it's such a wonderful idea, why is there so much resistence to getting a broad consensus for it? (By the way, when these articles are no longer wanted, don't they have to go through the existing, labor-intensive deletion policy, or are snippets exempt from this policy as well?) PRiis 19:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I would assume that when the content is merged, the original articles would be left as redirects, as is normal merging policy? Sam Vimes 19:19, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Given that they don't really take up too much room, I think it'd be nice to keep them. Category:2005 English cricket season matches is a very useful index - we shouldn't get rid of it in a hurry, jguk 19:30, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * When you say keep "them" I assume you mean keep redirects, otherwise we're back where we started. As for PRiis's comments, I'm tempted to agree. While I suppose it might not be against policy to have temporary articles, it does seem just sort of, well, strange. It also sort of opens a door that I'm sure can be abused. While I realize wikiepdia itself will always be a work in progress, this creation just to delete seems sort of contrary to wikipedia, in a way. Now, should this discussion be moved to a policy page somewhere, because that's where this is going? I think such a move would also get opinions from a wider perspective outside of this VfD. -R. fiend 19:51, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think anyone can accuse the Cricket WikiProject of being bad for Wikipedia - indeed, it has done much good work for Wikipedia - and has many featured articles and featured lists to its credit. The WikiProject can hardly be compared to an instance of a rogue editor, or a newbie not used to WP ways - it would be easy to distinguish circumstances where what is happening here is being used as a precedent where it shouldn't be, jguk 20:16, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I haven't seen anyone accusing Wikiproject Cricket as being bad for Wikipedia. This VfD is about a somewhat small portion of the project, and this section at the bottom is about temporary articles, which should be seen as a separate issue entirely. This is a new thing, as far as I can tell, and if there's no policy on them there should be, whether the policy is "no temporary articles" or simple rules/guidelines for how they are used. There are issues here. Who decides what articles are temporary? I assume the originator, but since no one "owns" WP articles what happens if a contributor objects to their temporary status? How do we prevent the use of them from being abused, and people from using temporariness as an excuse for poor articles, or ones that are early stages of works-in-progress that are a jumble of cut-and-paste messes from other sources? (I am not accusing Wikiproject Cricket of doing this, but I can see it happening somewhere in Wikipedia.) At the very least there should be a template:temporary for each such article, and there should be discussion among general Wikipedians. Again, that should occur elsewhere, as it is not really a VfD issue. -R. fiend 06:04, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

I haven't seen anyone except smoddy suggest these articles are temporary. If that is true then keep them in the User namespace, the Project Cricket (which I am not challenging) namespace, or anywhere but the main article namespace. Niteowlneils 13:46, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Why the concerted and continuous attack? They were subpages to begin with.  That was attacked as being not in keeping with page-naming, so they were moved to separate pages.  Now the subpages are being VfD'd one by one.  When there is no consensus to delete the first, they move on to the next.  Now you want them userified?  Why the systemic attack on one of the top two sports in the world?  Any First Class cricket match is at least as noteworthy as a minor character in a Harry Potter book, or a DS9 episode, and they don't even get VfD'd.  Or are you saying that first class cricket matches are less important than minor Pokemon characters?  Guettarda 14:03, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.