text:
User talk:Sliggy

Please add any comments (etc.) at the end of this page. Thanks, Sliggy

RE: Danny Simpson
Question- are we not allowed to describe the player's style of play? I had assumed we were in order to better know the player? I guess it makes sense not to though.. thanks.

Hi Sliggy, You had a question about Vessel of Sadness. The quote comes from the blurb on the 2004 edition (Abacus paperback). For other quotes go to williamwoodruff.com. Best wishes Woodruff 22:24, 18 September 2005 (UTC) __________________________________________________________________________________________________

shortage economy <- this one is good, needs fleshing out

Waterloo via Weybridge railway service
Ojw 23:25, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you actually intending to do this for all railways and all stations? (or ask a WikiProject to...)
 * Isn't there some way of automating it?

 * Hi there. I've added Waterloo via Weybridge railway service to the existing VfD for the sake of consistency and expediency. No bad-faith or anything: but there is no point in only testing one of the articles. If you feel they should be separate please do feel free to split them up. -Splash 02:05, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

USS Trever (DD-339)
I don't object to removing some of the hyperbole that is part of many DANFS histories, but you seem to have gone overboard in reducing the amount of pertinent information. Request that you reconsider some of the changes that you've made (i.e., removing the information about where she was laid down and who her first commanding officer was wasn't necessary clips). Jinian 19:36, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I understand some of your reasoning here, but can't help feeling that you're removing some of the more interesting stories from the history. "Just the facts" might be good sometimes, but education (which may be what an enclyclopedia is about) is more than just facts. Your cuts seem fairly wholesale and will be difficult to reconsistute without a full revision. (By the by, the name of the CO was simply an example, but is normally included because of what he might have gone on to do, rather than what the ship did.) Jinian 12:08, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Nicely done. Thanks for being open to another POV and doing such a good done removing the DANFS bias. Jinian 16:26, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The rest of the class - Thanks for doing the NPOV work on the rest of the class. DANFS, while accurate, was definitely a US publication and often showed that bias. I'll try to follow your example as I continue to move ships' histories over. While I often removed some of the text, you caught others that I missed. Thanks. Jinian 13:41, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Fake color articles
Because of the complexity of the vote at the above AfD, I have attempted to break down the individual votes on the AfD talk page. If I have misunderstood your vote with respect to any of these, please correct it. Cheers! -- BD2412 talk 12:54, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi Sliggy,
Noticed that you are the editor of my posted article on Caroline Carver. Im afraid Id overlooked (being new to Wikepedia)the necessity to include only neutral content, so sorry and thanks for your ammendments.

I do think though, that there where some very neutral, pertinent facts which could have happily remained, and would assume that knowledge is in the spirit of Wikepedia?

For example: That she has Anglo/New Zealand parentage. Carolines participation in a rally from London to Saigon. That she lives just outside Bath.

I must say I do resent being threatened with tarring as a "vandal" if I was further to ammend the article. Doesnt seem to be in the pioneering spirit of free information on the internet and i found this quite intimidating, especially as I'd only made a faux par. Regards Amanda

Strike-off in error
Pardon my misunderstanding of guidelines. I have reverted the strike-offs. Prashanthns 18:56, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

From ImpuMozhi
Hi - - I am trying to archive the records of edits I made before becoming a registered user. The procedure I am employing is as per advice available from this page: Changing attribution for an edit.

You could help me by telling me in detail how I can better achieve this objective. If the edits I made under various IP addresses could be credited to user ImpuMozhi's records, that would be ideal. Please advice and refrain from deleting anything meanwhile.

I am removing the delete message you put up, so that some other administrator does not become proactive in deleting that page. Please reply. Regards, ImpuMozhi

England and Argentina football rivalry
Just wanted to say thanks and well done for all your contributions to this article. I think it's not a bad little piece now, and hopefully it will continue to expand. Angmering 20:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I saw the note you left in Angmering's page. I think it is worth noting. A lot of the Argentine teams have some english in their names (Argentinos Juniors, Boca Juniors, River Plate, Racing Club, Quilmes Athletic Club, Newell's Old Boys, etc) and the even the first organized Argentine team was made of English expats (I think it was Alumni), see Football_in_Argentina. Even more, the first time Argentina beast England (At Wembley, I think) is still remebered and celebrated back home. Maybe we should even mention some instances of the Intercontinental Cup, one with Estudiantes de la Plata playing very rough (I think against Nottingham Forest) and another where Liverpool FC refused to play Boca Juniors (scheduling conflicts, was the official word).

Unfortunately we also imported the hooligan tradition, too. :(

Sebastian Kessel Talk 21:17, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Flat T'owt
Please let me know on my talk page why this article should be deleted. What would make it notable? Lewispb 21:06, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your reply. During the past 48 hours, another 100 people have apparantly joined!

Thank a lot
Thank you for helping me on those two articles, East Sea Fleet and North Sea Fleet. I was extremely tried and was half a sleep when i did those two.

Jin
I noticed you moved the page Jin (rapper) to Jin Au-Yeung. In the future please use the page move button (it's located to the right of the history button) when you move pages because it preserves the page history. When you copy and paste to move, the history is lost. If the page already exists where you want to move the page to, put up a request on Requested moves. I have placed a request for a history merge on Requested moves — J3ff 08:49, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Craig James
Thanks. I noticed it said he was a broadcaster, so that disqualified it from being speedied. A quick Google search found me some sites I thought I could use to quickly stub up something, but then it turned out to be a bit more involved than I had originally anticipated, as the ABC bio turned out to be factually incorrect (e.g., was not NFL Rookie of the Year, but Patriots' Rookie of the Year). So as I started resolving those issues, I figured "in for a penny, in for a pound," so I just went whole hog. :)  howch e  ng   {chat} 08:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry
For accidentally deleting your vote in Articles for deletion/Dorchester Town footballers while undoing another person's edit - that was quite careless of me. Apologies. Qwghlm 08:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Bryan Hoffa tag.
Good day,

Earlier this week you tagged the Bryan Hoffa article with a note that says:

"This article does not cite its references or sources."

Could you please provide examples of items that would satisfy the requirement of the note? Folajimi(talk)

 * "Digging a bit further ... which is a positive."
 * Well, how does that relate to the state of the tag at issue here??? Folajimi 14:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)(talk)

 * Does the MySpace page provide sufficient evidence for removal of the tag? Folajimi 22:52, 9 January 2006 (UTC)(talk)

 * Do AMG listings qualify as sufficient evidence? Folajimi 23:01, 9 January 2006 (UTC)(talk)

 * That's all I've got. As for the homonym, I believe AMG goofed-up. Folajimi 23:18, 9 January 2006 (UTC)(talk)
 * My suspicion is that tinyurl links are not appropriate for an encyclopaedia. As such, I need to find out how a clean URL is obtained for AMG pages... Folajimi 02:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)(talk)

 * I changed the tinyurl link to what it points to because otherwise it wasn't letting me save an edit in another part of the page. Sorry if it is not the correct link. Flagboy 18:21, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Bih-sut
Hi, Interesting map links you posted - I wasn't aware of them. I have a gut-feeling this article is actually correct but it's completely unverifiable at present and should be deleted unless someone can come up with printed sources. Dl yo ns 493  Ta lk  01:20, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Antonio "Kitín" Muñoz Valcárcel
I "fixed" the Antonio "Kitín" Muñoz Valcárcel page where you were debating an AfD notice. I think it is better now. See my comments at Talk:Antonio "Kitín" Muñoz Valcárcel--SVTCobra 01:34, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the compliment. Due to what I learned looking him up, I feel obliged to upgrade his wife's page, too. Oi, this is starting to feel like work. lol--SVTCobra 02:27, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Daily Illini
I won't quibble with your deletion of the information on the move to the new building, since I think information about the move is not particularly encyclopedic. However, I don't think stating that that the DI is moving into a new Illini Media building that is nearly complete falls under "possible future events & speculation upon them". No part of that is really speculative. -- DS1953 talk 01:11, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

 * It works for me. -- DS1953 talk 02:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Esther Sandoval
Hi Sliggy, how you doing? First of all, let me thank you for the rephrasing of the aritcle which I wrote. You did a damn good job and made it even better. Second, I removed the tag which you posted. You see,Sandoval's Awards and Recognition were printed in the newspaper which I cited. There are times when a book or a paper contain certain information that you may not find in the internet yet and therefore the reference is cited. Now, I know that you will not doubt me because as you can see in my User Page I'm a repected member in the comunity. Again, I'm impressed with your work and I believe that you are an asset to the Wiki project. Take care, Tony the Marine 04:01, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Took your advice, Cheers Tony the Marine 17:04, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Margaret Thatcher: 1983 Landslide
You state in talk:Margaret Thatcher (about 1983 election result):

"The observable, NPOV electoral fact is that the Alliance split the left and not the right." No it isn't. Opinion polls from the time indicate that Alliance voters were evenly divided between the other two main parties as their second choice. Thus the Alliance cannot be assumed to be part of a "left" bloc alongside Labour, and you cannot assume that if the two groupings fought had the election together then all Labour and (especially) Alliance voters would have voted for that bloc.

"Combined with first past the post and this is another reason for the landslide. Note that the Alliance got ~24% of the vote in 1983, Labour ~27%, but the Conservatives remained at roughly the same as 1979 at ~43%"

You can't infer anything from this. You seem to be assuming that the shift in vote was a single bloc, all in the same direction, i.e. that the swing in votes was due simply to a large group of ex-Labour voters shifting en masse to the Alliance, with no other shift in vote. It was not that simple, and in psephology you can never assume that things are that simple. If you want to present that as what happened, you need evidence. It could equally have been (and this probably did happen) that many voters switched from Conservative to Alliance, and others switched from Labour to the Conservatives.

I have changed the main entry to state simply that the split opposition in 1983 enabled the Conservatives to win on 43% of the vote, which is all that can be inferred from the raw national results without delving into detailed psephological analyses. This does not mean that the Conservatives would not have won if the opposition had not been split: if Alliance voters were evenly divided between Tories and Labour in terms of second preferene then the Tories would have won on over 50% had the Alliance not existed. Flagboy 18:21, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

African-American
Howdy Sliggy,

I noticed you left a comment in the recent deaths log that "African-American" was not a nationality, and I wanted to discuss this with you. I am an American of color who doesn't use that term as a self-descriptor, in part because I am multiracial. However, in certain contexts, "African-American" is entirely appropriate as a quasi-nationality (or ethnic) descriptor. Black figures of the American Civil Rights Movement, and their subsequent admirers, sometimes feel a just disenchantment with their "nation"; descendents of slaves, they know that their physical birthplace is the historical result of a great crime against humanity, the African slave trade. These blacks are no longer wholly African, to be sure, and have many affinities with their birthland, especially now that the tensions of racial hatred are somewhat eased; however, the fact remains that "American" is not their sole identity -- unlike America's "pioneers", the ancestors of most black Americans did not come to the continent willingly. To distinguish themselves, and claim a limited share of the culture heritage of which they were criminal deprived, some black Americans choose to self-identify as "African-American." This choice is grounded in painful historical truths, and should be respected. I don't wish to make a fuss over this, but I wanted you to understand why "African-American" is an important self-desciptor for some people, and appropriate, even in small obituaries, where the deceased is known to have so identified himself or herself.

I am presently attempting a wiki-vacation, so I will sign informally; but I will monitor your talk page, should you wish to discuss this further. Best wishes, Xoloz

Cameron article

 * C'mon, how is Eton not leading?! That is not POV, its a statement of fact. Would you be comfortable with "revered" instead? There is merit to noting that he had a privileged education, which someone reading the article say from America might not realise was constituted by Eton and Brasenose. Jdcooper 03:16, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I dunno, it just strikes me that we're cutting off our nose to spite our face. I know "leading" is kind of a wooly term, but everyone would know what it means, and everyone who has heard of it would probably agree? Its not so important that I'm going to get arsy over it! But I just think that sometimes POV is ok if its everyone's POV.. Jdcooper 15:17, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Teresa Ciepły and her 100 m race 3rd place at the 1962 European Championships
Hi there. Both the Polish and German Wikipedia offer evidence for this. The Polish Wikipedia merely states it in Teresa Ciepły, but the German Wikipedia article on the 1962 European Championships has a full medal table and times of the top 3 finishers. See here:.

I also found this compendium of results on the web when searching for "Teresa Cieply 100 m" in Google:. Quoting from "1962 Beograd" ("Beograd" must be "Belgrade" in Finnish):

WOMEN 100 m      1 Dorothy Hyman      GBR      11,3 2 Jutta Heine       FRG      11,3 3 Teresa Ciepla     POL      11,4 4 Daphne Arden      GBR      11,5 5 Hannelore Raepke  GDR      11,6 6 Elzbieta Szyroka  POL      11,8

I hope this is satisfactory. I will now undo your deletions of this finish in Teresa Ciepły (a simple revert is impossible as there have been other edits since). -- Mareklug talk  23:19, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I included a more reliable reference to her bronze in 1962 in the article. Sliggy 16:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Cities of London and Westminster
You regard the following statement as POV and superlative:

Although more politically mixed, these too have drifted to the Tories since the implementation of former Westminster Council leader Shirley Porter's Building Stable Communities'' programme of the late 1980s. Even at the 1997 general election, Labour fell short by several thousand votes and the seat must now be considered safely Conservative in all circumstances.''

Why? Buidling Stable Communities is a matter of public record as are the political intentions which lay behind it; the dramatic political changes it helped foster in wards like Bayswater and Churchill are clearly visible in changes in party share of the vote from 1986-1994 (http://www.election.demon.co.uk/wcc/wcc.html) a period when they Conservative share of the vote in almost all London Boroughs went into steep decline. And, short of, the complete annihilation of the British Conservative Party or a split in the English right a la the Canadian Tory meltdown, there is no prospect of CLW being lost by the Tories.

I can, of course, litter the article with references but I'd rather use a bit of common sense and keep the flow of the article and leave the reference war to university students with too much time on their hands.

Gerry Lynch 16:06, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Please note that I have responded on the talk page of Cities of London and Westminster, where this message was also posted, so as to have the most open discussion possible. Sliggy 16:54, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

La Salle College
Please stop making unnecessary decapitalizations to the article La Salle College. In the article, colony and war refers directly to Colony of Hong Kong and World War II. They are short-forms for the proper nouns, and should also be capitalized. De ryc k C.  02:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Medal template use in non-olympic contexts
I noticed when editing a page that uses Template:MedalTopEAA (European track and field (athletics) championships medal table top) that Template:MedalGold, Template:MedalSilver, and Template:MedalBronze have the undesirable side-effect of adding the page to an olympic medal category.

So I created new templates just for use in non-olympic contexts: Template:MedalGoldGeneric, Template:MedalSilverGeneric, and Template:MedalBronzeGeneric which don't do any adding to categories.

I went ahead and updated all the pages affected by this that I found linking to Template:MedalTopEAA, but I don't know about other non-olympic medal table contexts.

(This pertains to your edit on Teresa Ciepły when you added the Template:MedalTopEAA and its medal templates.) -- Mareklug talk  20:52, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Glassesdirect
Just wanted to drop a "thanks" on behalf of Jiff78 for the Glassesdirect rewrite (just in cast he doesn't beat me to it). I think there may have been a teensy-weensy spam motive involved initially, but I also think Jiff78 was making an honest effort, as well. Nice job on the rewrite, I've changed my vote to keep --Bugwit grunt / scribbles 23:57, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I've left a thank you on the deletion page, it took me a little longer to find this page. I told you I was new to Wikipedia :) Thank you again Sliggy & Bugwit for you help in this I really appreciate it. I think the reason the article looked spammy was possibly because I was looking at some of the other company articles when writing it, and so though it would be acceptable.  It's a great shame not all the editors are as thoughtful as you both.  Cheers.Jiff78 01:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

La Salle College again
About the Bauhinia Bowl problem: LSC had won Bauhinia Bown only 21 times, and 2006 championship is undecided up till the time being. Saying that LSC had won Bauhinia Bown 24 times and that she has already won the 2006 championship is strict vandalism. Next time when you see this just revert without hesitation with an "RVV" summary. -- D e  ryc  k C.  06:12, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Reply: See what you've reverted TO, instead of from, and you'll understand. Somebody, probably a skillful vandalist, added a few years to the trophy list. -- D e  ryc  k C.  04:23, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Bioresonance
afd. Midgley 20:38, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Fish transitions
I'm willing to have a go at a new diagram, and will try to sketch some creatures on Saturday with the aim of scanning them and sticking them on a gif as discussed at Image talk:41525972 fish transition 416.gif. Let me know if Nature are likely to give clearance making this redundant, and if a horizontal approach will suit ok. ...dave souza, talk 17:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thanks for your help! I don't know where are you from, but your neutral comment really made the situation a lot better. -- D e  ryc  k C.  08:42, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Paul Lau
That's fair enough. My understanding was that there was deletion vandalism going on, but when I looked more closely, it turned out the bio of Paul Lau was somewhat misplaced in the article. It seems that Deryck Chan felt it should be included, but large parts of the biography are neither notable nor directly relevant to La Salle. - User:Samsara (talk • contribs) 21:06, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Simple links
Hello. Please note that you don't need to write Egyptian (as you did in recent deaths), since just writing Egyptian makes the whole word, not just the part in brackets, appear as a clickable link, and it links to the article whose name is in the brackets. Similarly evolutionary, dogmatic, hyphenated, rabbinical, apocryphal, sciences, dogs, etc. The longer form can be used for things like histories. Michael Hardy 19:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Hugh Kawharu - bolding of titles
Hi. At Hugh Kawharu you unbolded the "Sir" in the first sentence. I initially did the same and then bolded it again. I can't find explicit guidance in the MOS but the example of Dame Ellen Patricia MacArthur at MoS:BIO has "Dame" bolded. Other examples I've seen have it bolded, eg, Winston Churchill, Robert Peel, John Major. Do you know definitively how it should be? Nurg 01:26, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Waterloo via Weybridge railway service article (revisited for you)
I think maybe this article should be worth mentioning. I am thinking of putting this up for WP:RM to be moved to the Woking Line. Even though it is on the South Western Main Line, it is almost in effect a seperate commuter line. Also the Woking Line came up with many hits. What do you think? Simply south 22:16, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, i haven't quite put it up yet as i have been busy but will soon. Simply south 20:02, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

A bit on the late side but i am putting it up for WP:RM now. Simply south 23:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Complete change. Is it okay if i put this as a redirect to SWML? Simply south 15:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Handbags
Please see Talk:Argentina_and_England_football_rivalry and Jooler 22:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Two-time/twice
Are we meant to follow this logic and use thrice winner? If a person can two-time another person, they can three- and four-time somebody (and there isn't another word for four-time in the sequence). To me it seems a bit lame to not use two-time because someone can't look past its dating connotation. - Dudesleeper 13:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * the word for four-time is tetrice. W guice 12:06, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Brian Thomson
Der!, I was too overzealous, wasn;t thinking, apologies, heheh. -FateSmiled&DestinyLaughed 15:12, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Brian Brolly
Oh dear - sorry, I was doing a rewrite at the same time as you, it would seem. I think I have covered pretty much the same things as you (not surprising, given identical sources) but please feel free to put your text back, if you prefer. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Concerning La Salle College
Wikipedia is not meant to be an encyclopedia with exact details only. Instead, it serves as a place where people can read and know more about something, a conservatory of general knowledge. Therefore, as long as the details are accurate and neutrally written, they deserve to stay. This applies to the case of the building details in La Salle College. Thanks.

One more question: are you from Hong Kong? --Deryck C. 00:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

 * My reply would be: Yes, they are supposed to become infinitely long, provided that the new details are correct, accurate and concise. The articles grow longer and longer, and finally split. That's the way Wikipedia grows. --Deryck C. 15:08, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Donna Edwards
An article that you have been involved in editing, Donna Edwards, has been listed by me for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Donna Edwards. Marylandstater 17:36, 3 July 2007 (UTC) Thank you.

Image permission problem with Image:Eric A Ash.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Eric A Ash.jpg I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the image (or other media file) agreed to license it under the given license.

If you created this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either
 * make a note permitting reuse under the GFDL or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
 * Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to [mailto:permissions-en@wikimedia.org permissions-en@wikimedia.org], stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter here.

If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the image to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the image has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to [mailto:permissions-en@wikimedia.org permissions-en@wikimedia.org].

If you believe the media meets the criteria at Non-free content, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags, and add a rationale justifying the image's use on the article or articles where it is included. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

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Image permission problem with Image:Eric A Ash3.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Eric A Ash3.jpg I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the image (or other media file) agreed to license it under the given license.

If you created this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either
 * make a note permitting reuse under the GFDL or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
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If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the image to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the image has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to [mailto:permissions-en@wikimedia.org permissions-en@wikimedia.org].

If you believe the media meets the criteria at Non-free content, use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags, and add a rationale justifying the image's use on the article or articles where it is included. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Images lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Skier Dude ( talk ) 08:20, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:04, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:32, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Sliggy


text:
Talk:Adultism

Call to Remove NPOV Tag
This article is filled with citations that can are verifiable; I propose to remove its NPOV tag. Freechild 14:27, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

The claim that ADHD is made up is totally ludicrous, I am removing it.
 * Phrased like that, I would agree with you. I'll point out, though, that there's significant controversy surrounding its treatment and classification as a disease. CameoAppearance orate 12:01, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment
I have issue with the statement, "Adultism is ostensibly caused by fear of children and youth.[1]"

 * Nope. I'd have to include that, while a "feature" it is not the "cause." I'm a practicing "adultist" and I DON'T LIKE children and youth. I certainly don't fear the loud, noisy, little attention-seeking bastards. In the colloquial sense, of course. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.229.10.49 (talk) 20:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

General Conversation
Perhaps some explanation of how "Adultism" is present in the given phrases would be appropriate. It appears as though Adultism is made to be a negative behavior; yet some of these phrases appear (to me) to be perfectly acceptable.

 * Hopefully, some of this is addressed a little better in the latest edit. Aaronwinborn 02:35, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually, this is a real term and a real topic -- even if the concept is highly debatable. BCorr | Брайен 11:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. However, it should be just fixed, rather than being deleted entirely (as FlareNUKE did). I have reverted the deletion of that section, and I am currently writing explanations of why said phrases are adultist. Rory096 1:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I have the deleted the "Understanding Adultism" link becuase the cookies it sent to my computer had viruses on it.-RainyDayCrow

"Co-counseling"
_ _ It seems implausible & in any case unverifiable to attribute the term to a presumably amorphous "grassroots" co-counseling while avoiding reference to hierarchical orgs: Re-evaluation Counseling(IIRC) coiners of "co-counseling", & its presumed service-mark-claimants, Co-Counselling International. _ _ It is also a distortion to talk as if whoever coined the term is responsible for the subject of this article, which is the concept the article creator chose to refer to by this term. The chances are excellent that Adultism should be a redirect to another article, after this one is merged into it. Determining what that article is should be on the agenda here until there is a consensus that there is no suitable article already in existence. --Jerzy•t 14:04, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I have heard and used the term on many occasions over the past few years, none of which through co-counseling. I have heard it in particular in discussions about unschooling, democratic schools, and Sudbury model schools. None of these have any relation to co-counseling, so even if the word originated there, it is certainly not being used exclusively by co-counselors any more.

Unless someone can present another article dealing more suitably with this subject, I would be against merging this article into another, as there is a growing awareness of the concept of adultism. The topic deserves to be heard. Aaronwinborn 19:20, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Why is there just the claim that adultism is the cause of all oppression(!) and no cite or explanation? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.250.221.131 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 16 August 2006  (UTC)
 * The above cmt was added to this section of the talk page 7 to 10 months after the other contributions that existed at that time, but above them (perhaps in clueless imitation of listserve/UseNet style). I have moved it to its proper sequence at the end of the section, without making any judgment about whether there is any hint of appropriateness in its being included in this section. --Jerzy•t 01:28, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems biased
As much as I am anti-adultist, I don't think that the adult side of the situation seems to be represented enough. This article is very comprehensive to how adultist views can be dismissed, I haven't found an "adultist rebuttal" in the article. Once I see one, I will re-evaluate my opinion. —M ESSED R OCKER (talk) 17:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * On the same token, I think you'll find that the Racism article doesn't give the same amount of time to racists as it gives to anti-racists. This is in accordance with Wikipedia's NPOV policy; specifically, "articles that compare views need not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views". I agree that the article isn't complete, but I think that NPOV tag should be removed, noting the difference between bias and incompleteness. » K i G O E  | talk  16:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, it could be the wording, but the article seems to me like a child's rant about his parents... Specially the paragraph against those MADD. I don't know who these mothers are, and don't care (they do no harm in Spain), but the paragraph just throws assertions about their (incorrect and silly) views and methods... Which asks for the replica: "and who says that?". Let's remember this is an encyclopaedia. --euyyn 20:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And it's clearly missing proper citations for the assertions and written in a horribly informal tone. Bayerischermann 20:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Seems to me that the adult viewpoint is the majority viewpoint, not the minority. I would think there are many more people in the world who believe children lack some of the rights adults enjoy than believe the opposite. Applejuicefool 19:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

 * This article is going to remain disputed as adultism seems to be a generally accepted practise, and adressing it as a form of discrimination is going to upset a large number of people. Many things considered normal are called biased when the facts are given. Adressing the facts about racism one hundred years ago would most likely be called biased in favour of the minorities. That is what seems to be occuring now. It will probably remain disputed for a while to come. Faranya 02:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I would have thought that "adultism" would mean the hatred of adults by teens. Shouldn't the word be "teenism"? --Charlene 06:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Assuming that it was intended to be formed along the same lines as racism and sexism and the like, "adultism" would actually mean "discrimination against one particular type/subset of adults" (and "teenism" the same, only discrimination against a subset of teenagers instead). Ageism would appear to be the correct term in that case, but it usually refers to prejudice/discrimination against the elderly. CameoAppearance orate 01:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The term "adultism" is premised on a similar structure as heterosexism; namely, adultism is a predisposition towards adults, which some see as biased against children, youth, and all young people who aren't addressed or viewed as adults. User:Freechild 19:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree that ageism is the more appropriate term, but Wikipedia isn't the place to have that discussion. Wikipedia only needs to know whether the term adultism exists (it does) and what it means (which the article states accurately).  The article is properly sourced and is accurate, there is no cause for a bias tag.  If you have a problem with people advancing the notion of adultism then complain to the people advancing it, don't flag an article explaining that phenomena.  KPalicz 16:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Unlike the facetious alternate term presented above, namely "teenism," the term adultism was not made up today. Instead there is an authentic etymological history and popular usage that extends far beyond one person's imagination. More so, the term ageism is inherently adultist, as those who proclaim it's supercession of the term adultism are clearly deny the necessity of identifying adultism as a legitimate oppression. User:Freechild 04:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not denying its legitimacy (I've been a victim of adultism myself) as a type of oppression. I simply believe that "ageism" would be the better term, etymologically speaking, on parallel with sexism and racism, because what we know as adultism (as well as the discrimination against senior citizens that "ageism" is currently applied to) consists, like sexism and racism, of the oppression of and/or discrimination against one group by another, dominant, group. However, ageism is already taken as a descriptive term, so adultism (similar to the word heterosexism - although that was coined because "sexual-orientationism" or somesuch is awkward and clunky to say) fills that void. CameoAppearance orate 22:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I think it is important to acknowledge that the use of ageism is already appropriately taken, as it describes discrimination related to any age. If I was in the position to choose the word, I would probably go with youthism, or teenism, just like I think the fruit referred to as a cherry would be better addressed as a carmine. However, the simple fact of the matter is that there is an etymological history to adultism that starts at least 30 years ago, and seriously debating re-titling the term would be roughly equivalent to teaching a 3-year-old to enjoy carmines. Freechild 00:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Disappeared?
Is it just my computer, or has this article disappeared? I'm getting a "This article doesn't exsist..." page when it's entered or searched for. The discussion and history pages are still there, but no article. I'm not exactly a wikipedia expert, so I don't know. Cheers, My baloney 11:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Disconcerting. It is gone, without any explanation or history. Freechild 13:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
I had to remove some vandalism in the first paragraph, which read: "Those with the common sense of a hamster often do not view adultism as a negative; many 10-year olds are in fact unsuited to fly fighter jets." Purple Is Pretty 00:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Hmm, I agree with that phrase. Punkymonkey987 (talk) 07:59, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Hmm, unless you have been published in a reliable source, sharing your opinion here is the same as vandalism and directly violates the request inside the talkheader at the top of this page, which clearly states that, "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Adultism article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject." Please keep your opinions to yourself, unless they are specifically about improving the article. Thanks. • Freechild   'sup?   13:29, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Freedom of Religion
How is that a form of institutionalized adultism? --Armaetin 02:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Forgive me if this has nothing to do with your question (it's 3:30 A.M., so I might not be reading your question correctly), but, perhaps forcing children to go to religious institutions like Catholic schools, church, etc. is what you're looking for? --Alexc3 (talk) 07:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not to mention the forced circumcision among the Jews. KSM-2501ZX, IP address:= 200.155.188.4 (talk) 17:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Teenagers and children don't have the right to vote, own property, possess money, buy anything, can't chose who they live with or where they can live (with relatives), no right of association with people (parents choose who they can be with) and don't have every right guaranteed by the US constitution (in the case of American teens). It's just teens are seen as too young, inexperienced in life and immature to behave properly in public or society. + —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.102.2.206 (talk) 23:28, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As I read the article and this talk page I was disturbed by the remarkable lack of credible examples of adultism in the article (in conflict with its obvious "this article is right and if you disagree you're wrong" tone). Then I came across this small discussion, which completely underscored the problem.  The article is in need of clearly defining —- or at least discussing — where the line is drawn between necessary parenting and/or social restrictions and adultism.  I hope it appears obvious that a four-year-old cannot be left at home when the adults want to attend church.  It's actually illegal in the United States to do so.  The four-year-old isn't actually capable of expressing an opinion on the matter that justifies whether or not the choice is or is not in his or her best interest, and the goals of advocates against the child's attendance would be indistinguishable from people who are simply against the religion.  Is the law forcing parents to not leave children unattended institutional adultism?  Are laws (perhaps by definition) of any kind institutional adultism?  If not, which laws are and which laws aren't?  Indeed, as written, the article appears to advocate that adultism is defined as any restriction imposed on a child for any reason — whether that restriction is in the child's best interest or not.  The Royal Society once recommended that the age of criminal responsibility is too low due to limitations in the brain's development .  It would seem obvious that punishing a child who is unable to understand the issue is adultism, but doesn't that necessitate the education and associated restrictions necessary to avoid breaking the law in the first place aren't?  Without examples I was also unable to apply context to the poll by the Children's Rights Alliance for England which suggests nearly half of all children experience some form of discrimination due to their youth.  How, exactly, does a child come to that conclusion?  When an adult refuses to allow a ten-year-old to drive a car, would that ten-year-old not claim to be discriminated against?  In short, this article is missing empirical examples to demonstrate the difference between adultism and the necessary restirctions imposed on children by parents, educators, and society — and that lack is beautifully demonstrated by Alexc3, who I must assume (without any other context available to me) believes that no child, regardless of age, should be taken to church without the child's express permission.  Without those examples (examples that can be applied generally to all children), the article is naturally biased.  Howick (talk) 23:54, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
 * My opinion, but I think it's a supportable one: Children are not capable of everything, but by the same token, they are not INcapable of everything either. Children are not perfectly competent judges of their own self-interest, but depending on the circumstances they are often competent enough.
 * When an adult is incompetent in some aspects, someone else may gain the right to take over for them in those areas of incompetence. However, it is abusive to overstep by taking control of other things as well, in which that adult is not incompetent.
 * In my opinion, adultism is when adults overstep by taking control in areas where a particular child is not actually incompetent. Just as with other adults, this concept is especially important in cases where the two individuals' self-interest might be in conflict.
 * Most ten-year-olds can't be trusted fly a fighter jet, but then again most people of ANY age can't be trusted to fly a fighter jet. :)
 * Competency is the issue, not age. Age is a very poor proxy for competency. And just as we do with another adult, a child should be presumed competent in each area unless there is evidence that they are not. TooManyFingers (talk) 03:02, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

POV issues
This article seems to assume that adultism is a) an extant phenomenon; b) an undesirable one. Any claims that both of these assumptions are indisputably the views of a large majority need to be supported by a preponderance of evidence. Even then, though, the racism article doesn't take the same negative tone as this one does. As such, I've placed the dreaded NPOV tag on this article. Powers T 18:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Your straw man argument assumes a) that the reliable sources cited throughout the article are false; and b) that you are an authority on the topic. With regards to a), you are dismissing the sources cited by denying the existence of adultism. In reference to b) you are interpreting the facts presented, again in dismissal of the citations. I would suggest that you review both of the aforementioned policies. On the basis of those points alone your POV tag is inappropriate; find a authentic and/or real issue within an article before you try to mark it inaccurate. • Freechild   'sup?   21:02, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

 * An article can be slanted even if that slant is supported by citations. I've restored the POV tag until we can generate some more discussion and a clear consensus.  PowersT 19:54, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

 * However, some topics are simply slanted one way or the other, as your citation of racism shows. If you don't like the so-called "negative-tone" of this article then find citations that support a different perspective; as it stands, tagging a fully-cited article with a POV tag is tantamount to you behaving as an authority. The responsibility for proving the citations at hand to be biased falls on the shoulders of differing citations, which with the topic at hand simply do not exist. You should reconsider your perspective regarding this article. • Freechild   'sup?   22:11, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

 * I support Freechild's position. LtPowers, I think the burden of proof is on you.  If you can't find references that support counter-arguments to the statements in this article, you should at least specify which of these statements violates NPOV.  Otherwise, the NPOV tag should be removed.EIFY (talk) 07:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree with EIFY and Freechild. KPalicz (talk) 16:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Colonel Powers, its been almost a month since you last commented on your NPOV tag, and two editors have shared concerns since then. Your continued silence will indicate consent to remove the tag. • Freechild   'sup?   00:29, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Further passing agreement with the above. forestPIG 19:57, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with Freechild. The sources are reliable, yes, but they all support anti-adultism, which gives the article a bias. I find it unlikely that there are no reliable sources which support the age of consent, drinking age, driving age, compulsory education, online filters, or the economic dependence of children on adults. And yet, none are cited in the article. I've restored the NPOV tag.bob bobato (talk) 18:49, 21 September 2009 (UTC) + theBOBbobato (talk) 23:35, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The article heavily implies that any different treatment of children versus adults is a result of intentional discrimination with no other purpose but to keep children subservient to or dependent upon adults. Sourced or not, the implication is preposterous.  I see the article has not improved much since I first expressed my concern.  Powers T 18:32, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

 * To my best knowledge, there is no "pro-adultism" argument as supporting biases against children in the social study literature. Bob bobato, you are more than welcomed to add them if you find some, but until then your argument "they all support anti-adultism, which gives the article a bias." doesn't follow. Now, there ARE arguments supporting specific discriminatory measures against children, but they can already be found in their respective articles (e.g. Age of consent reform), where they belong. Moreover, such arguments rarely address the issue of adultism, as far as I know. Again, if you find some, you are more than welcomed to add them. Persistent accusations of NPOV violation without concrete proposals are not constructive to the quality of the article, and reactions are not good substitutes for well-formulated opinions. Again, if no concrete edits or proposals are put forth, the NPOV tag should be removed after certain wait period. EIFY (talk) 16:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well there isn't very much adultism social science lit, period. A search on Proquest for 'adultism' only returned 6 results (including 3 newspapers), on EBSCOhost it only appeared 4 times, and on PSYCHarticles it doesn't appear at all. The only academic article which used the word adultism was about Youth Organizations ("Insist or Enlist? Adultism Versus Climates of Excellence"). I suggest that some of the extreme statements in the article be removed, or at least elaborated. In particular I'm thinking about the lists of 'adultisms', with such entries as 'Compulsory education' and 'Literature', which links to Harry Potter. An acceptable article, for me, would focus on actual child abuse and perhaps artistic/academic negligence, and leave out the 'discrimination' and 'oppression' silliness.theBOBbobato (talk) 21:40, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * While I am not skeptical about the results you got, Bob bobato, it seems that you were barking up the wrong tree. To the very least, I would expect more of the citations in the article themselves to show up with more comprehensive or targeted search engines, and indeed Google Scholar returned ~690 results. As a matter of fact though, adultism is about discrimination/oppression and there is nothing silly about it. Get rid of that, there will be nothing left by definition. About the list entries you mentioned, I agree that the Harry Potter link is quite a stretch and in general the Culture Adultism part needs some elaboration and counterpoints. However, 'Compulsory education' does belong here, as the current laws distinguish people based on age instead of ability: young people above certain age are free to drop out, and illiterate adults are never forced to go back to school, even though they haven't acquired the skills deemed necessary in the modern society. EIFY (talk) 02:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've skimmed over the adultism articles on Google Scholar, and I find that most of them have a different definition of the term than Wikipedia. Here, adultism is "prejudiced 'discrimination' against minors", but on Google Scholar it's merely "an adult's interpretation of children's behaviours or abilities, and the abuse of adult's power on children". I agree now, most of the examples of adultism in the article are correct, but the given causes are problematic. The article seems to be implying that children are mentally and competently equal to adults, and anything which treats them differently is 'unfair' or 'oppressive', like racism or sexism. That is of course not true, the average child is not as competent as the average adult, and adultism is nothing like racism or sexism. In most cases, Discrimination against social groups is only a problem when the discriminating factors are arbitrary or superficial, like skin colour or sex. Age is not an arbitrary factor, since most minors simply are not as capable as adults due to their less-developed cognitive abilities and lack of experience. A 5 or 8 year can't be trusted to decide if they want to attend school, for example.
 * I propose that in the article, the causes of adultism should be linked to adults' perception of Youth and Developmentalist theories (such as Piaget and Vygotsky), while keeping most of the examples and making the differences clear between 'common-sense' adultist practices such as the 'Age of Consent', and actual abuses of adult power.theBOBbobato (talk) 19:57, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There are some legitimate citations on Google Scholar that define adultism more along the line of discrimination, e.g. "behaviors and attitudes based on the assumptions that adults are better than young people, and entitled to act upon young people without agreement" (mentioned in "The Context of Power -- Young People as Evaluators" - American Journal of Evaluation, 2007). Now, I do agree that the current article goes overboard in certain parts (say, the opening definition) and starts to imply that all children should be treated as adults, which is ridiculous. That said, I have to disagree with the statement that "Age is not an arbitrary factor" and take a more nuanced stance. Yes, a 5 or 8-year-old can't be trusted to make his own decision alone in most conceivable circumstances, but that doesn't mean that a 15 or 17-year-old should also get his freedom stripped in the name of parental rights. In general, adultism is less of a problem for young children since the society's treatment roughly matches their abilities, but more of a problem for adolescents since they in average are getting closer and closer to the competency level of adults, but often times not treated as such -- a nuance not helped by the daily and legal language that bundle everyone under 18 as "child". All said, it seems to me that there is a more established middle ground supported by the literature body, and we should take the article in that direction. I will go ahead and swap out the current opening sentence. EIFY (talk) 01:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

MADD
I added Mothers Against Drunk Driving in the "see also" section, and it was immediately removed. I think a link to the MADD article should be in that section, as MADD is possibly the largest and most influential adultist orgainzation in North America. MADD's agenda isn't one against drunk driving, but one of promoting hatred and prejudice against young people, therefore I think it should be included in that section. 96.21.185.101 (talk) 02:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

 * What about other causes of adultism or teenage depravity: "moralists", social conservatives, "nanny state" types, public education and a majority of churches known for traditional values on teens submit to their parents' authority? It seems to be stronger in the US and western countries about the "moral sanctity" or sacrosanct nature not to challenge legal age of consent or that a 16 year old can have rights a 21 year old can have. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 20:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I too support the inclusion of MADD in this article, either as its own section or as a link in the "See Also" section. There is a direct link between their support of adultist policies and police harassment and persecution of people 21 and under in the United States. As a major impetus behind adultist policies and public opinion, MADD deserves inclusion as a concrete example of this phenomenon. Lothar76 (talk) 12:02, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Including any organization as an example needs a reliable source, which in this case would be something verifiable, like an academic paper or a book. Until then, no name-calling. • Freechild talk 04:47, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Legal age
The ultimate act of adultism is states and countries define when is an adult an "adult", such as 18 in the United States (a majority of states have it in their constitutions) and the drinking age remains at 21 for most of the US. The state of California seems to hold the concept of adult age in a strict way, despite how socially liberal that state can be on no-fault divorce (esp. the feminists and women's rights groups support this) in the 1960's and age discrimination (over age 50) laws that strictly prohibit workplace discrimination on older adults or seniors. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 20:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Wizarding World?
I fail to see how "Wizarding World" directly relates to "Literature" beneath the Cultural Adultism header as per the article's topic; I've changed the link so it redirects to "Childrens Literature", rather than "Wizarding World". 76.211.140.40 (talk) 03:30, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Lede -- definition
I'm not too sure about that lede sentence:
 * Adultism is "the power adults have over children"

It's an -ism, so it wouldn't be "the power". -ism is used in a lot of ways (see Wiktionary def), but here I think here it's used in the sense of ideology or doctrine, see Wiktionary def #6. (Alterntively an "action or process" (wikt #1) but that seems wrong -- "He performed adultism" seems unlikely (although "He suffered from adultism" (in the sense of being the victim of acts rather than having a disease) or "He performed an act of adultism" sound OK, so this is possibly arguable.) It could also mean a predisposition, which can be related to holding a doctrine or not, so it could mean "...predisposition to favor adults" or "...predisposition to act like an adult" or "...desire to be an adult" and any number of things, but that's not what this article is about so if those are alternate definitions we don't need to worry about that. But it seems that it should be something like one of these two (or possibly combine them): But this is pretty broad. I'd say that basically no one would, in belief or action, purposely fail to control a young child in certain situations, say when she's sticking a metal object into an electrical socket, so 100% of adults would be adultists in this sense, which renders the term meaningless. What I think is being talked about is inordinate or inappropriate control, giving us
 * "Adultism the the belief that adults should have power over children"
 * "Adultism is the act of exerting power over children by adults"
 * "Adultism the the belief that adults should have inordinate power over children"
 * "Adultism is the act of exerting inordinate control over children by adults"

But now we're getting into la-la land we're I'm just speculating on what the term might mean. So it's time to look at source. Doing that, I right away see (from Wikipedia mirrors) that this is a new lede, cut down quite a bit from a recent version. So I don't want to move forward unless this is a stable lede... I'm just saying it needs work, at least from the current version. Herostratus (talk) 02:09, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

 * You'll note that I drew the definition directly from the article that is cited. Flasher's article is widely cited in academic literature as the first study examining adultism, and his definition is given credence. I moved all the other information formerly in the lede into the article. I am leery to alter the definition from this source. • Freechild talk 02:36, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The cite of Freeman is only valid if she's a lexicographer. If she's correct, them a phrase such as "He has adultism" (meaning "He has power over children") would be grammatical. It's a malformation; other -ism words aren't used that way. If it's a common malformation that'd be different (and we should note that). I'd want to see some examples of usages such as "She has outstanding adultism" (meaning good classroom control) and so forth. I haven't seen any yet (and I'm looking). It's also a third of a century old, which is old for such a dynamic topic; usage changes. There's got to be a better cite. If we're going to stand by it as our definition, we should remove the quotes, also.

 * Dictionary.com doesn't have a definition, nor does Merriam-Webster, nor Britannica. This is a problem, and we'll have to look elsewhere for neutral scholarly refs. Wiktionary does have a definition: "A predisposition towards adults (or a bias against children)." So according to them it's a psychological state, I guess, depending on how they mean "predisposition" and "bias". This is closer to a properly formed -ism word. But we can't use Wiktionary as a ref in the article anyway.

 * If we can't find a neutral, scholarly definition that's not malformed, then that's a problem. We're not Humpty-Dumpty here. You know this topic well, surely there's a better definition. "Adultism is the belief that adults should have inordinate power over children" or "Adultism is the act of exerting inordinate control over children by adults" is probably what is meant by people using the word, and there ought to be a cite for that somewhere. (Actually, scratch "children" and substitute "youths" or something, "child" generally refers to people 12 and under (see the lede sentence for Child for instance), if that's what usually meant. Don't know yet.) Herostratus (talk) 04:38, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

 * Herostratus, I appreciate your attention to this article. To be clear, Flasher's article is a neutral, scholarly article. I believe that whether we personally like the definition or not, it was published in a neutral, scholarly journal and we should follow it's lead. New Directions for Youth Development, which is a scholarly journal published by Wiley, published an article by C.A. MacNeil called, "Bridging generations: Applying “adult” leadership theories to youth leadership development" . In this article she wrote a "negative construction of the meaning of youth is a form of oppression, referred to as either ageism or “adultism.”" On page 18 of the scholarly book, Youth-led health promotion in urban communities: A community capacity-enhancement perspective published by Rowman & Littlefield, Delgado and Zhao wrote, "adultism... can be defined as the inherent belief that adults are ultimate experts on youth, their issues, dreams, anxieties, abilities, and health; adults are thus thrust into positions of ultimate decision-makers and arbiters of policies, programs, and services involving youth." In an article called, "Family and community as the cornerstone of civic engagement: Immigrant and youth organizing in the southwest" published in the neutral, scholarly journal National Civic Review, D. Hosang defines adultism as "an antiyouth bias" . A neutral scholarly journal called Theory into Practice published an article by C. Close called "Fostering youth leadership: students train students and adults in conflict resolution" in which they wrote, "If we define abuse as restricting, controlling, humiliating, or hurting another, it's clear that abuse is a daily experience for young people. We have a new word for it: adultism."

 * So, this scan of definitions from across the sociology realm shows there is almost universal definition of adultism as a negative occurrence. If we are to create our own definition we are bound to reflect that. There is no "neutral" definition of racism or hetrosexism. How to proceed? • Freechild talk 15:36, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

 * OK. It's basically a minor lexicographic point -- I'm not contesting the existence of the word, that it's in use, or that it's essentially pejorative (like racism, but unlike feminism). I haven't checked but all that is probably true. I was just making the point that the definition is malformed, and this makes my inner lexicographer take notice. For an -ism word, you want the definition to include the sense of bias, predilection, doctrine, ideology (exception for some action words like "baptism", but I don't think this fits here). And some of the refs you cite directly above do define it that way, so maybe one of those would be better? It's a fairly minor point so if you feel strongly about it I'm not going to press the point further now, though. Herostratus (talk) 17:12, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

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Issues with reference sources
I have gone through all the reference sources that are accessible. These are some of the problems I have encountered. Would someone like to verify whether my findings are accurate or not?

Source #8 leads to a link that does not contain the cited quote

Source #9 does not discuss fear of children as the article claims

Source #18 does not contain the terms mentioned

Source #20 seems like a poorly-written blog post

Source #21 does not lead to the referenced article/quote

Source #38 is correct but the Wikipedia article should use quotation marks given that the statement was taken directly from the source

Source #39 does not lead to the referenced article/quote

Source #56 links to the entire website as opposed to the fact(s) stated in the article

Harry.chanp (talk) 02:17, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

 * I went ahead and corrected these issues apart from the one concerning source #20. Please refer to the editing logs to review these changes. Also, note that source numbers have changed by -3 as I have deleted a few sources. Harry.chanp (talk) 18:37, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Harry.chanp, thanks for you contribution Meeeeeeerzfu (talk) 23:48, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

The lead section is lacking content
For an article with around thirteen distinct sections, the lead is quite lacking with only two sentences. A reader would likely view the lead section and assume the rest of the article has nothing of value to read. I would suggest adding brief descriptions of the major points for the article. Swankbanana (talk) 16:53, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

"Usage" section, para. 1
At the end of this paragraph is a single lonely quotation mark. Or at least I can't find where the quotation is supposed to begin, if there even is one. The reference given is to a book I don't have easy access to, so I'm hoping someone else can solve the mystery: Is there a quotation here, and if so, where does it begin? TooManyFingers (talk) 15:58, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

 * I've resolved this issue, or at least I hope so. TooManyFingers (talk) 03:02, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Etymology/Origin section
Reading the description given by DuBois, it seems clear that he is discussing more or less the same issue Flasher wrote about seventy-five years later.

But it sounds to me as if the French sources from the 1920s and 1930s are using the word in a completely different way, to describe children whose personalities and actions seem excessively or peculiarly adult, such as the examples given of children committing crimes. Shouldn't it be made clearer that those French sources are merely using the same word but are talking about something completely different? TooManyFingers (talk) 17:13, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Also hopefully resolved now. TooManyFingers (talk) 03:04, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Adult Development Fall 2023
— Assignment last updated by Tsuki2023 (talk) 21:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Adultism


text:
Talk:Cicuta douglasii

It would be interesting if you discussed the adaptations of the water hemlock that allows it to live in such wet environments. For example, maybe you could discuss the structure of the roots.

I am not sure if this is possible on Wikipedia, but I noticed that your scientific name “Cicuta douglassi” is not italicized. Refer to your textbook for more information.

I know that you described this plant as degenerative. But, you did not say if all the animals that eat this plant eventually die. You ay want to make this point a little clearer.

I am also curious to know about how many animals are affected by these plants. Is it fairly common, or very uncommon?

Some statistical information would help your article sound more informative.

Grammatically, your paper sounds great!

Overall, I really enjoyed reading your article. I believe that it is well written and very informative.

I also enjoyed your article. I think it would be greatly improved by a photo of the plant, especially because it is so toxic, I would like to have a visual on what to avoid!! You stated the plant has an appealing odor, you may want to be more specific...what kind of odor? What does it smell like? Also, you stated humans do not have much reaction time if affected by the plant, but what span of times do the grazing animals have?? Great article though! It flows very nicely! You really did your homework.

Thank you very much for the comments and suggestions. All of suggestions were good, and I tried to incorporate all of them. A couple of the recommendations I could not find in any of the sources I looked at. Thanks again for the help!

Merge
I oppose the proposal to merge this article, Cicuta douglasii, with Cicuta since that article is about the genus of 4 species and this article is about one of those species. I am removing the tag since it has on there without action or discussion for an extended period of time. RJFJR (talk) 14:29, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Cicuta douglasii


text:
User:Grahn

Hello.

title: User:Grahn


text:
User:Scs/Sandbox

The pound sign is derived from the original German "L", which stands for the the Latin word libra ("pound"), as used in the original duodecimal currency system (pounds, shillings and pence or 'LSD'; see British_coinage#Pre-decimal_system).

used the abbreviation 'LSD' (Libri, Solidi, Denari), libra, being

 * |12°34'  56"   |

 * |12°34'    56"     |

historic residential housing blocks at 380-41042.37406°N, -71.23158°W and 153-16542.37058°N, -71.22217°W River Street

ASCII: !"#$%&'*+,-./0123456789:;<=>? @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_ `abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ Hello,world!

Hello, world!

Hello, world!

title: User:Scs/Sandbox


text:
Westerdijk Institute

The Westerdijk Institute, or Westerdijk Fungal Biodiversity Institute, is part of the Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences. The institute was renamed on 10 February 2017, after Johanna Westerdijk, the first female professor in the Netherlands and director of the institute from 1907 to 1958. The former name of the institute was CBS-KNAW Fungal Biodiversity Centre or Centraalbureau voor Schimmelcultures (Central Bureau of Fungal Cultures in English). Despite the name change the collection maintained by the institute remains the CBS collections and the use of CBS numbers for the strains continues.

The institute is located in Utrecht Science Park, a suburb of Utrecht. Before it had been located between offices at the university in Delft and in Baarn. CBS was established in 1904 as a collection of living fungi and algae at the Eleventh International Botanical Congress in Vienna. Since 2002 Pedro Willem Crous has been director of CBS as the successor of Dirk van der Mei.

Since its inception the institute has built one of the world's largest collections of fungi, yeasts and bacteria. The collection serves as an International standard for microbiologists, ecologists and geneticists.

The institute is roughly divided into two parts: Collection Management and Research. Researchers carry out investigations in taxonomy (biology) and evolutionary biology of fungi, ecological and genomic issues are often involved. The institute also acts as a centre of expertise for questions related to fungi, yeasts and bacteria from scientists, business, government and the public. The institute also organises courses in general mycology, medical mycology, mycology relating to food and to the built environment. The CBS collection has been recognised as a repository of proprietary molds, yeasts and bacteria. The Institute carries out identifications of microorganisms for third parties and advises on problems caused by fungi and yeasts.

Presently there are eight research groups: The Westerdijk Institute hosts and manages the Mycobank fungal database, and is responsible for the mycological journals Studies in Mycology, and Fungal Systematics and Evolution (FUSE). In collaboration with the National Herbarium of the Netherlands the mycological journal Persoonia is produced. The institute holds the library of the Dutch Mycological Society and members can consult and borrow books.
 * Applied and Industrial Mycology (Jos Houbraken)
 * CBS Culture Collection (Gerard Verkleij)
 * Evolutionary Phytopathology (Pedro Crous)
 * Fungal Natural Products (Jerome Collemare)
 * Fungal Physiology (Ronald de Vries)
 * Medical Mycology (Ferry Hagen)
 * Software Developments, Algorithmics and Databasing (Vincent Robert)
 * Yeast and Basidiomycete Research (Teun Boekhout)

CBS employees contribute to data in the Index Fungorum and the Dutch Species Register. CBS Fungal Biodiversity and NCB Naturalis (Dutch Centre for Biodiversity) are setting up joint facilities for DNA Barcoding of organisms in Leiden and Utrecht as part of the project Arise.

title: Westerdijk Institute


text:
Talk:Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary

[Untitled]
The explanation I have always been toldisthat it was a queen who frequently had miscarriages and still-births. Hence 'how does your garden grow' referring to her womb, and 'pretty maids all in a row' because she buried each child in her garden. I cannot however, remember which Mary this was or what the 'silver bells and cockleshells' referred to.

Mary I of England, that would be, who remained childless through several miscarriages. Mary I of Scotland had at least one child, James, later James I of England and James VI(?) of Scotland. Eriathwen 12:35, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Personal Analysis
whose "personal analysis" is that on the main article? why does it deserve to be there? Alveolate 20:02, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I removed it as being rather unencyclopedic. In case any of it can be incorporated, a copy is below. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:21, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Doing a little research on slang from this period, I prefer the following analysis:

 * "Mary, Mary, quite contrary" inferes that Mary did not follow the social mores of the time.

 * "How does your garden grow" - a garden party was a common social event of the time.

 * "With silver bells" - a belle is a popular, attractive female.

 * "And cockle shells" - cockle bread was known as an aphrodisiac.

 * And pretty maids all in a row - Maid is also an archaic word for an unmarried woman or a virgin.

Missing Lines
Why does this article refer to a line in the song about killing rows and rows? I do not see this in the lyrics. 63.164.202.130 14:22, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

my own assumption
I've always assumed its a riddle, and that "Mary" is the sea (la Mer), and her garden is the sea bed (cockleshells). Although that doesn't explain the silverbells and marigolds. --Krsont 22:27, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Urban Legend
When I was around 10, I'd hear that this nursury rhyme was based on a likely untrue urban legend about Bloody Mary. That she was so vain about her looks if she spotted a young woman in her court more beautiful than her she'd have her beheaded, and she would put her head on display in her garden. Hence the "pretty maids in a row". Anyone else ever hear that urban legend? Inkan1969 19:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Quoted-Section
I cannot see where Mary Mary in Fforde's "The Big Over Easy" acts as described. In contrary, she tells the other officer the plant has not to be watered because it's plastic and he walks away saying "I'm a policeman, not a sodding gardener". (Hodder Paperback (Edition 2006), Chapter I, Page 2) Perhaps someone with another edition could cross-check it? 84.187.64.21 (talk) 09:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC) Caupano, 08-03-03

Teletubbies
According to the article, Dipsy sings the rhyme. I have no idea what this statement is based on. Unless there are different versions I'm unaware of it's apparent the 'talking flowers' sing the song and make the following remarks. The Seventh Taylor (talk) 12:37, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I notice this has been addressed now. The Seventh Taylor (talk) 23:27, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Why the [sic]?
The article contains the line

 * Cowslips all in a row [sic].[1]

What does the [sic] refer to? I don't see any unlikely words. 86.163.209.18 (talk) 21:43, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Never mind: I found it. The quote was "Cowslips all in arow." with the [sic] assuring us that it really did say "arow". Someone, at some point in the last 2 years, "corrected" this to "a row", but left the [sic] in place (perhaps not knowing what it meant). I have changed the words back to the actual quote. 86.163.209.18 (talk) 21:48, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

 * This diff was were it happened:

 * Ha. I just found it as well. Good job.--  SabreBD  (talk ) 21:54, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Disney's The Truth About Mother Goose
Since the stub of Disney's The Truth About Mother Goose links to this article what it says about the rhyme should be included with its claim that the Mary is Mary Queen of Scotts, the "silver bells" are said to "refer to the elaborate decoration on her dresses", the "cockle shells" to her love of exotic food such as cockles, and the "pretty maids all in a row" referring to her ladies-in-waiting..--BruceGrubb (talk) 17:10, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Not really. It needs a reliable source.--  SabreBD  (talk ) 18:08, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
 * The video itself is the reliable source.--BruceGrubb (talk) 21:27, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Again the video itself is the reliable source. So stop reverting this claiming there is no source.--BruceGrubb (talk) 22:58, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The video is not a reliable source and this explanation is already in the text. There is also the issue of notability. Something like a book that refers to this might provide evidence of notability, but this is not the origin of this idea and therefore pretty irrelevant to an encyclopedic entry, in less you are demonstrating something about dissemination of the idea, in which case - that needs a reliable source.--  SabreBD  (talk ) 07:23, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Uh there is a light years of different between "silver bells" referring to (Catholic) cathedral bells and "silver bells" "refer[ing] to the elaborate decoration on her dresses" unless you have really weird definition of bell bottoms. The "cockle shells" meaning unfaithful husband vs  love of exotic food is also drastically different.  We have to remember that Disney's educational cartoons didn't cite where they got their information but it was Disney and if they said it was true people believed it at that time.--BruceGrubb (talk) 20:46, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
 * My point is that this is just trivia, unless you can demonstrate its significance through a reliable source.--  SabreBD  (talk ) 12:15, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary


text:
Roman Catholic Diocese of Sindhudurg

The Roman Catholic Diocese of Sindhudurg (Dioecesis Sindhudurgiensis) in India was created on July 5, 2005, when it was split from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Poona. It was a suffragan diocese of the Archdiocese of Bombay until 25 November 2006, when Pope Benedict XVI transferred it to the newly established Metropolitan province of Goa and Damão. The parish church in Sawantwadi, dedicated to Our Lady of Miracles, serves as the cathedral for the diocese.

The diocese covers an area of 21,099 km² of the state Maharashtra, covering the districts Sindhudurg, Ratnagiri and Kolhapur except the St. Francis Xavier parish in Kolhapur City. Neighboring dioceses are the Archdiocese of Goa and Daman to the south, the Diocese of Belgaum to the southeast, to the east the Diocese of Poona, to the north the Archdiocese of Bombay, and to the west is the Arabian Sea.

The total population in the diocese is 5,365,706, of which 29,794 are Catholic. The diocese is divided into 19 parishes.

Bishop Anthony Alwyn Fernandes Barreto, is the first Bishop of the Diocese and has served all his life for the Diocese. He comes from an aristocratic family from Velsao Goa which has been knighted by the King of Portugal during the Portuguese rule.

In 2015, a true witness of Bishop Alwyn, from London, stated that, Bishop Alwyn is 'A man of our time' 'Simple person' and He is widely known as a 'Smiling Bishop'.

Its stated that Bishop Alwyn has put every penny from his side to the Diocese of Sindhudurgh, the share that he had received from his ancestry has been put in the Diocese to purchase land for the benefit of building schools.

title: Roman Catholic Diocese of Sindhudurg


text:
Sant Andreu de Llavaneres

Sant Andreu de Llavaneres is a municipality located 36 km north of Barcelona (Catalonia) (Spain), along the Mediterranean coast, between Mataró and Sant Vicenç de Montalt. It belongs to the Maresme comarca and the Barcelona province. The short name is simply Llavaneres.

Llavaneres faces the sea to the east and a natural park to the west. The village has a mixed agricultural and residential character and has become a popular vacation and summer-residence location for people living in Barcelona over the last forty years.

Good connections with Barcelona, the Maresme coast and the Mediterranean axis of France and Spain include a train line to Barcelona, as well as the C-32 highway and the N-2 road.

Sant Andreu de Llavaneres is today well known for its upscale sailing in summer.

History
The oldest archaeological remains are from the Neolithic, especially the rocks of "Sant Magí" in the mountains of Montalt. Between the rivers Llavaneres and les Bruixes, the village Can Sanç dates from Roman times, where vineyards and olive trees were cultivated. The economic activity, as in Mataro and other communities, was purely agricultural. Later called Sant Andreu de Llavaneres, it was part of Mataro and gained independence in the mid-sixteenth century. Sant Andreu de Llavaneres became the resort of the better society of Barcelona (1920). Several of his modernist buildings, built by architects like Joaquim Lloret i Homs, date from this period.

title: Sant Andreu de Llavaneres


text:
User:Chris. F. Masse

Advanced intuition is the compass of creative intelligence. Creativity is the driving force behind human progress. My ikigai is to boost advanced intuition. I research the physics of time of the mind. I engineer applied artificial intelligence.

title: User:Chris. F. Masse


text:
Ksibet El Mediouni

Ksibet El Mediouni (قصيبة المديوني) is a small city located in the region of the Sahel in Tunisia around 10 km south of Monastir. It is a commune in the Monastir Governorate.

History
The city origins are thought to be linked to the establishment of an observation post of the Almoravids to control Christian incursion on this part of the Tunisian coast.

Its name is linked to the local saint Mohamed Ben Abd'Allah El Mediouni who may be an Almoravide coming from the village of Mediouna near Casablanca in Morocco.

The city is known for its traditional crafts, especially for its handmade carpets.

title: Ksibet El Mediouni


text:
Talk:Maxwell Ward (contestant)

In regard of the claim that this article is irrelevant or of dubious importance. Maxwell Ward was a contestant in this years Big Brother competition, that attracts over a million viewers each day. Whilst his notability will decline in a few months, he is currently well known to the British television viewing public, and as such his article should remain until he is no longer notable. 212.139.30.87 16:19, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This was actually me. Oliver Keenan 16:23, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * I am personally all for articles on Big Brother Contestants but only if they include information about the person other than their BB antics. --Celestianpower talk 08:24, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Maxwell Ward (contestant)


text:
The Third Eye (Rampa book)

The Third Eye is a book published by Secker & Warburg in November 1956. It was originally claimed that the book was written by a Tibetan monk named Lobsang Rampa. On investigation the author was found to be one Cyril Henry Hoskin (1910–1981), the son of a British plumber, who claimed that his body was occupied by the spirit of a Tibetan monk named Tuesday Lobsang Rampa. The book is considered a hoax.

Plot
The story of The Third Eye begins in Tibet during the reign of the 13th Dalai Lama. Tuesday Lobsang Rampa, the son of a Lhasa aristocrat, takes up theological studies and is soon recognised for his prodigious abilities. As he enters adolescence, the young Rampa undertakes increasingly challenging feats until he is recognised as a crucial asset to the future of an independent Tibet. Tibet's Lamas had foretold a future in which China would attempt to reassert its authority, and Rampa is operated upon to help him preserve his country. A third eye is drilled into his forehead, allowing him to see human auras and to determine people's hidden motivations.

With his third eye, Rampa can serve as an aide in the Dalai Lama's court and spy on visitors to the court as they are being received. The visitors upon whom Rampa spies include the scholar Sir Charles Alfred Bell, deemed by Rampa as naive but benevolent. In contrast, Rampa and others are certain that Chinese visitors are nefarious and are soon to attempt to bring conquest and destruction to Tibet. Tibet must then prepare for an invasion. During the story, Rampa meets yetis, and at the end of the book he encounters a mummified body that was him in an earlier incarnation. He also takes part in an initiation ceremony in which he learns that during its early history the planet Earth was struck by another planet, causing Tibet to become the mountain kingdom that it is today. The popularity of the book led to two sequels, The Doctor from Lhasa and The Rampa Story, and Lobsang Rampa wrote twenty books in all.

Controversy
Although it is claimed by the author to be an authentic autobiography of Rampa's education as a monk born in Tibet, the book's emphasis on the occult made scholars doubtful about its origins. The book includes a description of a surgical operation similar to trepanation in which a third eye is drilled into the forehead of Rampa, allegedly in order to enhance his psychic powers. After the book became a bestseller, selling 500,000 copies in its first two years, Heinrich Harrer, explorer and Tibetologist, hired the private detective Clifford Burgess to investigate the background of the author. In February 1958 the results of the investigation were published in the Daily Mail. The author of the book turned out to be a man named Cyril Henry Hoskin, who came from Plympton in Devon and was the son of a plumber. Hoskin had never been to Tibet and spoke no Tibetan. When interviewed by the British press, Hoskin (who had legally changed his name to Carl Kuon So in 1948) admitted that he had written the book. He claimed in his 1960 book The Rampa Story that his body had been taken over by the Tibetan monk's spirit after falling out of an apple tree in the garden of his home. Hoskin always maintained that his books were true stories and denied any suggestions of a hoax.

Responses
Although detractors regard the book as a myth of Cyril Hoskin's own creation, The Third Eye and its sequels remain the most popular publications claiming to represent life in Tibet. The dismissal of the book as a fabrication by scholars did not undermine its popularity, despite the lack of records of Rampa ever having lived and its depiction of events that are not found in the standard literature describing life in a Tibetan monastery. Writing in The Observer in May 2020, David Bramwell noted, "History should not judge Rampa, who died in 1981, too harshly. Many leading Tibetologists admit that he set them on their paths, and the Dalai Lama has acknowledged Rampa’s role in drawing attention to the plight of his country."

Gordon Stein in Encyclopedia of Hoaxes (1993) has written:

"When Tibetan Scholars examined The Third Eye, they spotted a number of obvious errors. For example, the Tibetan highlands are not at 24,000 feet altitude, but rather at 14,000 feet... Also his statement that apprentices must memorize every page of the Kan-gyur (or Bkah Hygur) to pass a test is false. Not only is this book of Buddhist Sutras not memorized, it is not even read by apprentices."

title: The Third Eye (Rampa book)


text: Category:Television lists

title: Category:Television lists


text:
Republic XP-72

The Republic XP-72 was an American prototype fighter-interceptor developed by Republic Aircraft as a progression of the P-47 Thunderbolt design. The XP-72 was designed around the Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major 28-cylinder air-cooled radial engine with a supercharger mounted behind the pilot and driven by an extension shaft from the engine. The armament consisted of six .50 caliber (12.7 mm) wing-mounted Browning AN/M2 machine guns and underwing racks for two 1,000 lb bombs; Alternative armament packages included two 37 mm M4 autocannons with four .50 caliber AN/M2s, or four M4 autocannons.

Design and development
The XP-72 development paralleled that of another Republic design, the XP-69 that was to be powered by an experimental 42-cylinder Wright R-2160 liquid-cooled inline radial engine mounted in the nose of the aircraft and driving contra-rotating propellers. The XP-69 was intended for high altitude operations and featured a pressurized cockpit and armament of two 37 mm cannon and four 50 caliber machine guns. As the XP-72 displayed greater promise than the XP-69, the XP-69 was canceled on 11 May 1943 and an order for two XP-72 prototypes was placed on 18 June 1943.

Operational history
The XP-72 flew for the first time on 2 February 1944, equipped with a four-bladed propeller. The second prototype was completed on 26 June 1944 and was equipped with an Aero-Products contra-rotating propeller. As the XP-72 displayed exceptional performance during flight tests, an order for 100 production aircraft was awarded. The order included an alternate armament configuration of four 37 mm cannon. By this time, World War II had progressed to where the need was for long-range escort fighters and not high-speed interceptors. Furthermore, the advent of the new turbojet-powered interceptors showed greater promise for the interceptor role. Thus, the production order for the P-72 was canceled.

title: Republic XP-72


text:
Pottawatomie Creek

Pottawatomie Creek is a stream in Miami, Franklin, Anderson and Coffey counties of east central Kansas. The stream headwaters arise in northeast Coffey County approximately 3.7 mi southeast of the community of Waverly at 38.34667°N, -95.57639°W and an elevation of approximately 1215 ft. The stream flows to the south-southeast for 6.2 mi and enters Anderson County and turns to the northeast passing under State Highway K-31.The stream passes under K-31 again about 7 mi west of Garnett then passes 1.5 mi southeast of the community of Pottawatomie. It continues to the northeast passing under US Highway 59 approximately 3.2 mi north of Garnett. It continues to the northeast passing northwest of Greeley and into southeast Franklin County. It then passes Lane and enters Miami County. It flows to the east-northeast passing the south side of Osawatomie and under U.S. Route 169 to its confluence with the Marais des Cygnes River just east of Osawatomie. The confluence is at 38.49667°N, -94.92722°W and an elevation of 817 ft.

The Pottawatomie massacre of May 24–25, 1856 occurred on the banks of Pottawatomie Creek.

title: Pottawatomie Creek


text:
Nicholas Clapp

Nicholas Clapp is a Borrego Springs, California based writer, film-maker, and amateur archaeologist who has been called "a modern day Indiana Jones". He has received 70 film awards (including Emmys), and several films that he edited have received Academy Award nominations. He is a graduate of both Brown University and the University of Southern California, and he has worked for Disney, National Geographic Society, Columbia Pictures, PBS and the White House.

Nicholas Clapp is married to Bonnie Loizos, now Bonnie Clapp. He has two daughters, Jennifer and Cristina.

Films

 * Let My People Go: The Story of Israel (1965)
 * The Undersea World of Jacques Cousteau (2 episodes, 1968)
 * The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (1968 TV Movie)
 * Journey to the Outer Limits (1973)
 * National Geographic Specials: The Haunted West (1973), The Great Mojave Desert (1975)
 * The Incredible Machine (1975)

title: Nicholas Clapp