text:
Talk:Linear Pottery culture

Bibliography not mentioned in the article
Specifically, these:
 * Mallory, J.P. (1997). "Linear Band Ware Culture". Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture. Fitzroy Dearborn.
 * Renfrew, Colin (1990). Archaeology and Language : The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-38675-6.

My issue is that the article does not claim that the LBK is in anyway related to the steppe pastoral people so either the references seem misleading or the article incomplete. Anyone care to comment? Dryfee (talk) 02:33, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * 1. Why cite these long out (and up!)dated literature??? 2. In this respect the article is correct and not an "issue".2A02:8108:9640:AC3:20A1:2AE9:9C98:6FA6 (talk) 07:38, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

Merge
I suggest all three articles be merged (someone has to do the editing) under a new heading, Linear Ware culture. The is the title used used by James P. Mallory in his article in the Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture. --FourthAve 04:16, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Discussion on the name of the article

 * Google results to help inform any decision on this question:

 * "Linearbandkeramik": 3,770

 * Many of these results are not in English. Searching only English-language pages gives 651 pages, therefore, less than "Linear pottery culture". bogdan ʤjuʃkə | Talk 11:34, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Good point, having now had a look at Naming_conventions_%28use_English%29, I guess we should discount the German options. adamsan 11:45, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

 * "Linearbandkeramic": 815
 * "Linear pottery culture": 756
 * LBK +archaeology: 521
 * "Linear ceramic culture": 220
 * "Linear band keramik": 43
 * "Linear ware culture": 12

 * The usual disclaimer about Google tests and academic terms applies but Linearbandkeramik seems overwhelmingly popular and is the term I am most familiar with myself. If there's a policy on translating foreign terms into English though then I'd go with FourthAve's suggestion. Otherwise let's fill in that redlink. adamsan 10:53, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I know it exclusively under the name Linear Pottery Culture, this is how it is usually translated in Europe outside Germany. Linearbandkeramic is a linguistical non-sense; Linearbandkeramik is a German name, but there is no reason to use the German name here and archaeological cultures are always translated if they do not refer to a geographical name (which is not the case here)...Juro 16:44, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I disagree with using Linear Pottery Culture for several reasons. First, it is usually translated into English as Linear Pottery Culture, so "outside of Germany" it is translated to "Linear Pottery Culture" if English is being used, translated to Linearbandkeramik if German is being used, etc. Second, the pottery is not linear, and therefore Linear Pottery Culture is a poor translation. Perhaps the translation from the Hungarian is more useful: "Linear-banded Pottery". Third, few things are more imperialistic, colonizing and patronizing than going to someone else's country and telling them their single easily readable word is not good enough, so we will make an English version, even if the English version is a poor translation.

"...in Britain the term "Schnukeramik" is not used, ... but "Corded War". Complete consistency is impossible since it is commonplace for Anglophones to refer to the Linearbandkeramik [not in italics - note by Dammers], and the TRB, rather than their English translations." (Foutnote 24 on p. 24 of A. F. Harding, European Societies in the Bronze Age (Cambridge World Archaeology): http://assets.cambridge.org/052136/4779/sample/0521364779WSC00.pdf

and

Christensen (see below, under "No defense?", for citation) writes "Linear Pottery culture (LBK)..." in his first use and then uses "LBK." Kdammers 08:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Shall we move along?
The Germans discovered the culture and named it with their name. Not matter how you look at only that name is going to suffice for them, no matter what the language. It seems obscure to English speakers so they have made it sound better in English. We need to move along here. If that is our decision then we need to go with an English name, overriding the native Germans who also speak English. Let's take 4th avenue's suggestion at the top of the page and get going, hey? There are so many other cultures to be done and conclusions asserted or denied. Thanks so much.Dave 13:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

No. We should stop shoving our poor translations down everyone else's throat. It won't hurt people to have "Linear Pottery Culture" redirect to the actual name of the group (Linearbandkeramik), as is accepted by everyone except the English.

 * I thought "Linearbandkeramik" was the proper English?

Just like we use "kindergarten" or "doppelganger" or "wunderkind" and so on ...

-Forever IP

112.198.98.31 (talk) 16:21, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Merger
This has been a tough one. I have moved to Linear Band Ware culture simply because this is the name JP Mallory uses in EEIC. For those who contributed to the earlier articles, you are welcome to see what you can do with it. The Linearbandkeramic article was particularly good. --FourthAve 21:17, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

 * LBW is the most common name in English afaik. why are we back at "Linear pottery culture"? dab (ᛏ) 21:19, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I might be biased by my years in a German university and as a practicing archaeologist dealing primarily with LBK, but I prefer 'LBK' or 'Linearbandkeramik.' I am unfamiliar with 'LBW' (or does Dachmann mean 'Linear Band Ware' by that?)  In all my reading in various languages, I never, to the best of my memory, came across 'Linearbandkeramic,' yet this gets so many hits in Google.  On the other hand, Amazon's search inside gives one Linearbandkeramik and two linear pottery culture hits  in books written in English - and no hits for the others.  Google scholar (much more appropriate than Google for this sort of topic) has Linearbandkeramic: 0, Linearbandkeramik (in English): about 54 (out of a total of about 76, LBK neolithic: 44, linear band ware: 0, Linear pottery culture: 44.  I don't like 'Linear pottery culture' especially if it is in lower case, since it looks like a (vague) descriptive term that could apply to various styles.  The free version of the EB has only the following:  1 hit for 'Linear Pottery culture' (in an article about Dutch neolithic); 2 hits for 'LBK' - one of which is the title article. At the moment, I do not have access to the full EB (book or electronic) nor other archaeological reference works, but I think we (i.e., some-one with a decent European archaeology library) should check these - they're much more meaningful here than what is written on the Internet.

Europe in the Neolithic : The Creation of New Worlds (Cambridge World Archaeology) (Paperback) by Alasdair W. R. Whittle uses LBK. Cunliffe's Oxford Illustrated Prehistory of Europe has Linear Pottery culture (with LBK given in parentheses in the index). 211.225.34.182 01:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Additions and Editing
Hi, folks. This has got the makings of a good article. First of all, I would like to say that all these names are most inappropriate, as the scholars point out every once in a while. The ware is not linear and does not feature any linear decoration. Neither is it primarily banded, though some of it contains bands. No, appropriateness lies elsewhere, and that is the reason for this extended discussion. But, tradition speaks with a loud voice, as we all fear our fathers. So, we modify tradition until it suits us. I'm totally happy with Linear pottery culture. At least the decoration is incised lines, even though curved or in rectangular shapes. Even the little punctures are often in a line, seen from the side. I would have liked LBK because of its brevity, but Linear Banded Ware Culture or Linearbandkeramikkultur sound totally weird and foreign and make incomprehensible something that ought not to be. We aren't trying to use a specialized lingo designed only for specialists. They don't need any encyclopedia. They have the journals and each other.

So, I'd like to go on from here. I notice the article is interesting but a bit sketchy. Also, there is a major player not on the field, Marija Gimbutas. She only died in person, not in scholarship (which lives forever). I happen to have some of the books so I am going to try to fill this out a bit if that is OK with you. You'll see my edits there.Botteville 00:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

PS. Obviously, the one to work on is Linear Pottery culture, as it is better English and a better structure.Botteville 00:37, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Balcanic? The first time I saw this, it took me a long time to realize "Balkan" was meant; this is the only place I've ever enountered the word. I've changed it to the instantly understandable "Balkan". --FourthAve 19:04, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm replacing the Eastern Linear etc. section. It wasn't saying much and what it said was wrong. There was no way I could fit it into the Bukk Culture as portrayed by Gimbutas. I did add a description of the Bukk Culture.Botteville 02:41, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

________________________________

This page is written from the victor's point of view. We now know that the LBK DECIMATED the indiganous paleolithic population within 300 years. Check out all the stuff Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza's team came up with. Seriously. These people were genocidal on a serious level. Given the the only know decendents of Europe's first peoples (the Baske) are STILL fighting this war, i think a less one-sided page is in order.

-jordan f 23 October 2005

Write it, man, write it. Do you have a broken hand?Botteville 04:34, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm revisiting this statement briefly. You can't credibly connect the Spanish Civil War, which is the source of any ideas of modern Basque conflicts, with events and circumstances of several thousand years ago in prehistory. An attempt to do so reveals a preoccupation with ethnic conflict. There is no evidence to connect the actual Basque culture with the LBK. Sorry. English itself is only several hundred years old as we understand it. Several thousand years gets us into the dim origin of the very language group. Imagine what a Basque parallel means. There is no conflict and no victor and no need to get excited. OK there were a few palisades and weapons-traumatized skeletons. To turn this into genocide or even any significant conflict at all is inflammatory. In fact as the modern sources cited in the article now have it, the LBK might be the Mesolithics. So, your entire model is totally off the wall. You can't pick out a few relatively short-term events of several thousand years ago about which next to nothing is known and turn them into genocide, invasion, ethnic hate and who knows what. Your sources certainly don't say what YOU say they say. Keep on studying.Dave 13:49, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

No defense?
I'm not sure, but I think the LBK villages in the Leine valley had fencing around them (unless I'm mixing this up with Roessen culture). The nature of the fencing suggests "defense" against wild animals. On the other hand, Jonas Christensen (“Warfare in the European Neolithic,” Acta Archaeologica 75:142,144 ) discusses a number of enclosed LBK sites, including one that replaced a burned unenclosed site. He also mentions a site in Austria with a large number of skeletons with weapon-induced trauma (p. 136). I'm changing the text.
 * Great. Maybe you'd like to help 4th avenue get going on the clearing-house article so we can get this swamp back on a single track? The public prefers roads to swamps.Dave 13:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Religion
As it now (Man. 2006) stands, the text takes Gimbutas's ideas as gospel. While she might have been right, we should not give the false impression that this is the fully accept3ed view. Let's add so weasle words!Kdammers 03:04, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * If there are significant questions both views should be presented with as NPOV as possible. Your comment about "so weasel words" isn't too clear. Care to elaborate?Dave 13:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It is presenting Gimbutas' oft-debunked speculation about the beliefs of a society that has left no written records as fact. Try reading every sentence and then immediately asking yourself "How do we know that from the archaeological record?" and I hope you'll see what I mean. Is this the same editor who wrote Neolithic religion? adamsan 23:11, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree that the passages which claim a 'universal neolithic religion' and present the "mother goddess" model as accepted fact are highly problematic, and seem to go even further than what Gimbutas proposed. I've commented these out for now, on the principle that 'tis better to stay silent than to mislead, at least until such time as a better-referenced and measured alternative can be found. By way of replacement I've inserted some more tentative statements, which hopefully do not stray too far the other way into weasel word territory. I'm sure a better precis of Gimbutas's ideas can be written (did she make any claims specific to LBK peoples? I don't know), as well as for her critics. Open to suggestions.
 * And no, the original contributor of the religion text here does not appear to be the same as the creator of the neolithic religion article, which has quite a few problems as is being discussed on its talk page. In the latter case, this seems more to be a matter of conflation with neopaganistic sources. I hasten to add that in neither case do I think the editors were acting in bad faith, but rather that their choice in respective source materials need to be a little more rounded.--cjllw | TALK  03:49, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Hello. I'm the universal neolithic religion guy. Let me say, up front, I like the compromise that has gotten there now. It's reasonable. We contruct mental models of the ancient religion. This ia a model, not the only possible one. As to whether the mother godess is an obscure model or Gimbutian fantasy or a fantasy based on a misinterpretation of Gimbutas or a Gimbutan invention or anything new or anything minor or anything in question by very many scholars, I dare say, it does not seem to me you have read very much. First we start with the traces of the mother in history and mythology, and that literature is vast. Then we move on to the archaeology illuminating the traditions of the mother, and that literature is vast. Then we start tracing that archaeology earlier and earlier until we get back into the Old Stone Age and that concept is very well published. And finally we get to the pages of Gimbutas, which practically talk about nothing but the mother and moreover all that talk was very well accepted and still is. Denials of the mother interpretation are rare and obscure. I hope I do not offend you. What did you think "The Language of the Godess" was all about? But I do like the few paragraphs in the article now. The interested reader can get into the material through the links and the other articles. It doesn't claim to be the only possible view or the only view. But if you think the mother goddess/matriarchy model is not the major model and has not been the major model, then, my dear sir or madame, you need to begin your reading in Neolithic archaeology. I respect your audacity and I am sure it is a guiding light leading you on to discovery. Affectionately, Dave 16:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

 * No offense taken, Dave, and likewise, none was intended. My concern was to see that the text acknowledges such models cannot reasonably be held as certainties, that that particular model while certainly influential and notable has also its detractors and sceptics, and (as you note) other or variant models also exist. It was not my intention however to pour scorn upon Gimbutas or these concepts in general, or deny the validity, scholarship and influence of the model and its proponents. Re-reading my earlier commentary some words might have been better chosen, but their thrust was intended to highlight those particular concerns expressed supra, and not rubbish the whole idea. Indeed, I am in vehement agreement with the final sentence of the now-concealed text of yours: "Perhaps the beliefs of Europeans of any culture always were complex".

 * I make no representation as an expert in matters Neolithic, but from the materials I have read, it seemed to me that firstly that aspects of "mother-goddess" theory had been challenged in some academic quarters, and secondly that some of the statements in that section went further than what Gimbutas at least had maintained.

 * For example, Gimbutas's work does not assert a monotheistically-interpreted "omnipotent mother goddess" figure or the universal veneration of such a figure, as some of her supporters have made plain. Her view of Neolithic societies seem to encompass a little more variation, acknowledge and identify male deities as well, and prefer the description "matristic" or "matrifocal" rather than "matriarchal" (my own edit has sloppily introduced the latter term, this shall be corrected).

 * Gimbutas herself was certainly not a crank or fringe-dwelling loon, but of course a very well-regarded scholar. Nevertheless, aspects of her methodology and the basis for some of her conclusions have been called into question by others, as has been done by for her predecessors. In an interview she concedes "Maybe I made some mistakes in deciphering the symbols, but I was continually trying to understand more", and certainly her interpretations of ideograms stand sometimes on shaky ground. Her own entry on wikipedia records some notable dissenters.

 * However, much of this diverting discussion and content would be better continued for a more general article on the topic, such as the Neolithic religion article which has now been stripped of the out-of-place proto-linguistic conjectures, and awaits our encyclopaedic attentions. For the present article, what would be really handy is a source or three for theories specific to the LBK folk, and some descriptions of suchlike artefacts found in association with their sites. Would you happen to know of any? Regards, --cjllw | TALK  03:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Let's Get Started
I did the Linear Pottery culture one hoping it would be a merger of the other two. Instead, it shows up as a third alternative. I was new here at the time, still am. I guess things do not just happen, we have to make them happen.

I notice 4th avenue has commanded some space at the top. His suggestion as I read it is to collect and unify all the material under a new name based on the British authority, Mallory. Someone has to do this work and then get rid of the old articles by deleting, I presume, everything but a redirect to the new article. Is that the way it works?

I suggest we get moving on this as there is a lot to say on early Europe and the fans can't say it because of this hold-up. Also, there is a comment above about some new evidence on the way the agriculturalists moved into Europe.

4th avenue, why don't you start to follow through on your excellent idea? I'm coming back on archaeological topics but I want to finish up the climatic periods and the stages of the Baltic, as it may impact this article. Let me say this. If after I do that no one has started the clearing-house article, I will do it, and also change the other articles to redirects. Any comments?Dave 13:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

On the picture
Great picture, I love it. Does it belong in front? If it were going to be the only picture, I think so. However, I was hoping to find some pictures of the pottery to go in there. And then there are pictures of the country and the sites, if any can be found. No matter, the format can always be changed as need be, when the illustrations turn up. And, the Internet is ideal for illustrations. That is one of its strong points. Why not show off the fine lady in her best clothes? I assume what I see of this date is someone's working file, and that the double pic and the note next to the top pic will shortly disappear.

Name
The name issue has been already discussed thorouhly several months ago. The correct English (i.e. non-German) name is and has always been Linear (Band) Pottery culture. We know that Mallory uses a different name and it is nice that he is so creative, but he is not the only person in the world and no linguist. I know what I am talking about and come frequently across that name. See e.g. Google book search, where you get 12 results for "linear ware" (and no for linear ware culture), while you get above 500 results for linear pottery. Or see e.g. this, where the word "linear ware" does not even appear: Juro 02:49, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Well hello Mr. Juro. I see you had a comment way back there but nothing since. Just where have you been? Why wait until after I move it?

 * But no matter. For myself I do not care what it is called. I'm the one who created Linear Pottery culture originally to distinguish it from from Linear pottery culture, as the latter was a source file for merging and rewriting. Then there were three around for a while before some kind soul took all the notices off and kept basically what I and one or two others wrote. But I see this situation as reflective of the life of the name in general. Except, as you say, for Germany, where the name is frozen forever after and a day, it seems to change quite often. How long are we going to bat this around? There certainly is no authoritative English name and Google is a recent phenomenon in the history of modern scholarship. It is only good for telling us what people who use Google are looking up today. Tomorrow they will look something else up. It's a fad, you know? OK, fine, I'm willing to stay at Linear Pottery culture, but we need change the names in the article back and fix a few redirects. I don't mind doing that, but how many times am I going to have to do it?

 * A couple of moot points. I don't see what you would call a discussion months ago. I see some comments with no resolution. Those were there when there were two and then three tagged articles. Whew, I'm glad we got out of that stage. Then 4th avenue preempted some space so I responded to that. Did you assume some sort of issue was settled, and on what basis? Second, you seem to have some sort of NPOV about Mallory. I can always be sure that whenever Mallory, Renfrew or Gimbutas are mentioned, there is a whole lot of jumping up and down and screaming. I don't see it myself. Gimbutiene was good looking but the others aren't (joke). Mallory is authoritative and English and this is English. Why, I still remember Danubian and that looked pretty good until V. Gordon Childe insisted on jumping off a cliff. Danubian jumped along with him I guess. But you know, if Danubian was once all the rage, then what you say about the supposed English fixity of the name can't be true.

 * Is this IT now or am I going to be referencing a vanished article later on? This must be the spook of articles. I got more updates to make based on scholarship published on the internet, which isn't Mallory, Renfrew or Gimbutas, and tries to keep us posted on the latest research rather than be controversial.Dave 03:51, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Oh, one more thing. I read the Internet article you referenced under (1)and it is even in one of my updates. Are you trying to say, this THE authority or the way Europeans do it now, or that the European way is THE WAY or that everything in that article is authoritative and true, or that reading the article endows you or anyone with some special secret knowledge of the way things are and ought to be? Because if you are, all I can say is, I don't believe you ought to think that. Yesterday it was all different and tomorrow it will be more different still. This is art rather than science.Dave 04:08, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

 * (1)I do not know where you have placed the warning that you want to move the article, I have not seen it, maybe because there is a permanent "redirecting chaos" around this article. (2) You have written too much above, so much that the idea you want to convey has got lost in some parts (3) I have not cited google, but google book search (i.e. major US libraries) and that is a huge difference! (4) The article treats the name variants, and does not mention "linear war". By the way, in terms of archaeological content, the website is wrong in several places, because the authors obviously have not read basic CEE literature on the corresponding cultures, but that's another issue. (5) The only correct (non-German) name is Linear Pottery culture (i.e. as a translation of the German LBK/Czech lineární keramika etc. ; Danubian and other totally different names are different concepts in terms of content and thus NOT the topic of THIS name issue), everybody who deals with that topic uses it and knows it. Only Mallory and probably some others, for whom – like for you - continental Europe seems to be an "exotic" region, seem to have decided to play poets and invent "slightly" different and better names (in a sphere where this is absolutely unnecessary). It is nice that he is so "creative", but the name that is really used is Linear Pottery (see my above comment) and an encyclopaedia must allow for that. And yes, this has nothing to do with history science or archaeology (again, I do not talk about the "danubian" and similar versions, and those names are completely marginal anyway), this is pure looking at the frequency of names in professional texts. And the frequency is very clear in this particular case, actually, all other names besides Linear Pottery and the German names are virtually non-existent when looking at the frequency. (6) I do not know why you consider one person, basically unknown elsewhere, the "authority" in a matter that is dealt with by thousands of experts all over the world. But I can guess why: because you have no other readily available recent book on the topic in England, so you derive the wrong conclusion that this is THE authoritative and new source. That's a wrong conclusion. And yes, the opposite of Mallory is the rest of the world (including what you call "the Europeans"). (7) There have been name changes neither in German, nor in any other language in question. Maybe there was a different name 50 years ago, I do not know, but it has not changed recently, is not changing currently and is not going to change in the near future and there is no reason to change it, because the design of the pottery has not changed ( :-) ).  (7) Anyway, there are redirects. Juro 19:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Whatever this article's ultimate resting place, would those who feel inspired to move it about mind also attending to the redirects. As things stand now, a bunch of double redirects I had repaired after the previous move have once again lost their way, and this talk page is no longer directly associated with the contents it discusses.--cjllw | TALK  04:36, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Sorry old buddy. I'm going for Linear Pottery culture now. We batted this around enough I think. I can't seem to get the discussion back. Can I ask you to be patient a bit longer and do a little fixing? I didn't change that much. As for the religion it is a large topic after all, at least in the publications. There is also the matriarchy question. But the custom now is to base the inferences on archaeological studies, such as statistics of grave goods, etc. I don't mind sticking to that. I like the statistical/archaeological data approach myself though I do admire the more abstract and speculative theorists. They lead us pedantic types on.

 * I may say you have a lot of names on here. I hope I don't end up like some editors, taking everyhting off my user page and running from name to name or getting off and getting surreptitiously on again. Not that you are in that category. I took a lot of flak from hypersensitive persons when I first got on so I appreciate your not being one of them.Dave 15:19, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

 * No problem, Dave, "Linear Pottery culture" will have to do, it seems. I've lodged a request at WP:RM to have this talk page moved also to talk:Linear Pottery culture, since a simple move can no longer be effected and it will require admin intervention to have the article and its associated talk page (ie this pg) re-aligned. I think the other double redirects can be corrected without too much trouble. Nice work btw in those recent expansions to the material, and agree discussion of the terminology question is a useful addition to the article itself. I am a tad confused by your last comment above; perhaps it is my missing something but it seems you might be under the impression I've edited under alternate names than my present moniker; I am not Juro and I've not edited under any other name than this one- Regards, --cjllw |  TALK  12:34, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Removal of some unsourced statements
Bringing in some sourced information on the disappearance of a Linear Pottery physical type and Linear Pottery genetic features, I removed the following statements for being confusing, unsourced and maybe irrelevant:

 * The explanation of the researchers is that the LBK population was never a very large one, and that they settled in a mosaic pattern, assimilating larger numbers of Mesolithics. They were, so to speak, the heralds of a new way of life adopted by the general population of Europe.

 * Demographic analysis of the human remains, however, indicate a 20-30% rise in the number of 5-19-year-olds in the cemeteries, an event termed the Neolithic Demographic Transition (NDT). It is thought to represent in increase in birth rate. If the genetic evidence is being accurately interpreted, the population that increased cannot have been primarily immigrant.

While the first phrase is according to archeological facts, I consider it wrong and OR to forward such findings as an explanation to the previously raised questions of extinction without proper sourcing. The second phrase seems pretty confused and irrelevant to me, but worse, it seems to supply another unsourced explanation. To relate NDT to new immigrants is not consistent with a continuation of older cultures. Rokus01 17:58, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you were right to remove the unsourced statements. My problem with this article, even though it was judged better than the previous, is that I did NOT source the statements. Just a few modifications therefore could interrupt the line of thought making the whole thing confusing. In a sense I shot myself in the foot. I'm revisiting the thing now correcting the cause of the problem and trying straighten the whole thing out. We have a photo of the pottery now and in the last year some good articles have come out. I can probably find the articles from which the above statements come but they were intended as evidence that the population was local and not mainly immigrant. I don't really need them now so I am making the critics happier (nothing will ever make THEM happy) by putting in their articles and there is not going to be room for extensive evidence on the local nature of the population. I agree they come from the Palaeolithic rather than the Neolithic. So thanks for your concern and you did right even though the action took out the core of my argument rendering the whole thing incomprehensible. It is my fault. I should have tied it to the sources. I hope you find this better when I get it done.Dave 11:35, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Revisit
Now that I have more Wikisavvy I think I will revisit this article as it seems stable. I see it made class B. Why not shoot for Class A! Excelsior.Dave 23:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Later. Getting into this article I see that it has been tampered with badly. The underlying fault is mine. I did not use proper templates or put citations in, opening the article up to disguised vandalism. I'm fixing that.Dave 12:07, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * PS. I see that someone has been trying to offload material into other new articles. That is just what I would have done. I will go on with this process.Dave 12:09, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Sandia Cave
Here are some sandia cave biblio items I removed: As far as I can see the cave has nothing whatever to do with this article. It is not mentioned in the article. This looks like irrelevant spam to me.Dave 12:07, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Wesley Bliss, A Chronological Problem Presented by Sandia Cave, New Mexico. American Antiquity, 1940a 5(3):200-201. Ref. Sandia Cave. Correspondence in American Antiquity, 1940b 6(1):77-78.
 * The Mystery of Sandia Cave. New Yorker, 71(16):66-83

Hibben allegation
Someone put a "warning" that Hibben made up data on his biblio item. Check out Hibben at and elsewhere. As far as I am concerned this allegation is libel. Unless you can back that up with a reference, leave it alone, will you? If in fact anyone finds a reference the best thing to do is take Hibben out. Otherwise I'm not going take him out on YOUR say-so, whoever you are. Since Hibben worked primarily in New Mexico I suspect whoever put the Sandia Cave biblio items in here also concerned himself with Hibben. You know, some Wikipedia articles call some authors of the past prevaricators and fabricators and they have a string of investigations and references to back them up. You have nothing, as far as I can see. Libel is a serious matter. Get out and stay out.Dave 12:31, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

To 71.195.73.153
Listen, buddy, your peevish comments meritorious or not are not the way we do things. I don't want to be too tough on you because you might shortly become a newcomer and then I would want to welcome you. First of all let me say this. When I did this article I did not put in the footnotes and citations. This would call for a template saying, "this article does not cite references" or some such thing. I'm totally amazed no one has done that. I'm fixing the citation omission currently but it will take a few days.

Second, once that is done, if you know of other opinions then you can either bring it up on the discussion page or else try reworking it melding the new information with what was there before, or else rewriting and giving your reasons in the discussion. Your own personal opinion does not belong here. That would be original research, which Wikipedia does not publish.

I notice you did put in a few citations. That obliges me to consider that information. I just have not got to it yet. Meanwhile, if you want to be a serious editor, stop with the extraneous "warning" and personal opinions. I'm spending this time because you look as though you might turn into a serious editor. You would want to get yourself a user page. Don't identify yourself but put something of your qualifications and interests. Look at a bunch of user pages. Then you would leave me a message saying, thank you very much for your kind advice, Dave. Then I would say, welcome to Wikipedia. That would entitle you to be taken seriously by me and probably others also.

The encyclopedia pages are an encyclopedia not a personal forum. We have a forum on the discussion pages, like this one. If by chance you continue after this well-meant advice then I and others will have no choice to treat you like a vandal. I'm not an administrator but you will probably attract the attention of one and he/she might block you from Wikipedia depending on the severity of your vandalism.

My guess is we will shortly be seeing your user page. There is a handbook and a tutorial.Dave 14:39, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

This article is one huge mess. The Eastern Linear Pottery Culture (for those understanding Slavic see e.g. kultúra s východnou lineárnou keramikou) is not the same as Bükk Culture (bukovohorská kultúra), the Bükk Culture follows after the Eastern Linear Pottery Culture and is a clearly distinct culture.
 * You can sign your comments by entering four tilde. As soon as you get yourself a user name those will invoke the user name and give a link to your user page. As far as the article being a mess goes, right now you are right. That is why I am working on it; however, such work does not guarantee it will not be made a mess again. As far as what you are saying is concerned, that is no worse than what many with user names say. In fact it is mild. Indeed there is no reason to sneak around about it. We say such things to each other openly. If you get too personally insulting there might be some administrative repercussions. I've seen some pretty insulting things.
 * Once again it is a matter of protocol. The encyclopedia page is not the place for outrage. No one is automatically going to make it read and look the way you think it ought just because you are outraged. Instead it will just be even more of a mess. Follow the protocol. You'll be treated like any other editor.
 * We aren't the Slavic Wikipedia. We don't think like, talk like or act like slavs except insofar as we are all human and opinion on the English side may vary quite a bit from opinion on the slavic side. So you may have to try to work things out and if it does not go your way choke down your rage just like everyone else. Or, just work on the Slavic Wikipedia.
 * No I do not agree based on what I have read that the Eastern Linear Pottery Culture is not the Bukk. What I have read is Gimbutas and she takes the view that it is. She did not always agree with her Slavic colleagues or they with her. Whether she agreed about this I do not know but in 1991, her last work, the Bukk is the eastern Linear. I cited her. However if you read the two articles by Max Baldia you will see that he does not mention the Bukk at all. Instead he mentions the Alfold and makes it contemporaneous with the western in such a context that it is clear it is the eastern. He does not use eastern. I'm adding a couple of good articles to the list that take other points of view. A lot depends on what dates you use. They all have a pool of dates and each pool has a different spread. Gimbutas make the Bukk early; others make it late.
 * No matter how you cut it the Bukk in the mountains and the Alfold on the plain are in the range and time window of the eastern linear and the pottery IS linear. There are some other more local cultures as well; you can read the articles after I get them in. So the view I am going to take is the the Eastern is mainly the Alfold and the Bukk and they are mainly contemporaneous depending on whose date you use, with the Bukk possibly later than the Alfold. But I still have to sudy the articles.
 * As far as expecting agreement among scholars or schools is concerned that is just plain not going to happen so we have to work around it as best we can. As far as you and I agreeing on every point is concerned, that is not going to happen either. As far as you agreeing with everything in the final form of the article is concerned, that also is not going to happen. I will be glad to listen to you as long as you behave like an adult Wikipedian and not like a juvenile or the ethnic enemy of all English-speakers. What I need are some articles I can access and read expressing the point of view YOU have learned. We all learn from others. We might be able to say, Prof Jones says this but Prof Smith says that. If you are saying it, forget it. We don't care what YOU say.
 * Now I find I am getting hung up in confrontation. So you prepare your material and I will finish my clean-up and then we can work it out, possibly getting some help from other Wikipedians. Making the article even more of a mess is not an adult solution.Dave 02:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

 * You do not seem to understand the seriousness of this error (And I am not surprised because you do not even seem to understand the meaning of the word "Slavic", as laughable as this might be given that you are trying to write about arch. cultures): This is not a question of two articles/view, these are elementary things. I have read hundreds of articles and books on this and basically live in the territory. What you call Alfold is the Hungarian name for the Eastern Linear Pottery and Bukk is simply another culture (irrespective of dating) which arose from two groups of the ELP. If someone calls both cultures ELP (as you claim above) than it is his personal misinterpretation/error and maybe worth mentioning as a footnote. Finally a personal hint: Obviously, the best sources about any arch. culture are almost always those of local archaelogists and any texts you read in English are just superficial summaries of those sources. The excavations have not been conducted by Americans, people from the UK or any other English speaking country, but by local archaeologists (This is no Egypt or Mesopotamia). So, not only should not you say "this is not the Slavic wikipedia", but if you want to learn about the culture at hand, you should learn Hungarian and Slovak (in this case), otherwise you will never be able to get at least a basic picture of the matter at hand.
 * You can indent by leading off with colons. Do you play chess, buddy? If you play with a group the better players will not play with you because they want to be challenged and grow. I've given you enough hints to start growing. I got to go on now. I am going to finish cleaning the article, at which point it will be clear who thought what. For you, I think you need to face what you expect to get or accomplish on Wikipedia. If you become a new user, then welcome. Goodbye.Dave 04:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I have explained that this article is completely wrong. If I wanted to become an editor, I would become one. That is all. The rest is up to editors able to write an encyclopaedia and not arguing using terms like playing, grow and other non-sense, which I would expect at best from a poet. I really wonder what kind of people are allowed to edit here, this is really a shame.

 * The article is better now, but it still holds that Alfoldi C. is simply the Hungarian name for what the Germans, Slovaks and Czechs call the Eastern L. Pottery. And the primary, secondary or whichever author of this article does not seem to understand this.

Revisit finished
I finished revisitng. Everything, I believe, is cited. Any attempts to change it without reason or without citation or discussion will be reverted by me as vandalism. Formerly I found my words, which were paraphrasing some source, altered to make them say something else, adding total confusion to the article. You can't do that now, or if you do, you better make sure they say what the source says, unless you are going to discard it, in which case I would expect to see your reasoning. I plan to keep my eye on this article every minute.

As to my critics, I say this. Gosh I know that the very best person to write this article would have been a quadruple major in geology, biology, physics and archaeology. He (or she) would have at least one PhD and many years of experience as a field archaeologist, as well as being a published author. Furthermore, he (or she or it) ought to be fluent in Hungarian and all the west Slavic languages as well as in German. He must have read hundreds of books and articles specifically about the LBK.

But let's go a little further. Such an expert must have an audience suitable to his talent. We should all learn Hungarian so we can read all the Hungarian sources. In fact we should all become polyglots so we can assume whatever ethnic identity is convenient at the time. What we need here is a nation of Jason Bournes. English - bah. That is for children and infidels.

Moreover, Wikipedia must start being very careful about who they let edit. I suggest an application process where you are nominated by your congressman and then have to pass a Wiki exam to make sure you are a bona fide expert. Then the president may appoint you to Wikipedia so that you may perform great things for the world, especially for the enemies of English-speakers everywhere, who must be compensated for the fact that we exist.

Until we get this ideal system set up it looks as though we might have to use people like me on a contingency basis and endure the ordinary English-speaking oaf who might need some information, even though he belongs to an inferior culture and is no doubt an inferior person. I apologize to you superiors for the inconvenience of it all. I hope you will not be turned off by Wikipedia and get out of our hair but will hang around just to set us all straight!Dave 18:17, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Misleading images
I have removed the following misleading and/or anachronistic images from the article: Ycdkwm (talk) 13:41, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * File:BreakingFlax.jpeg -- depicts 20th century culture and provides little useful illustration of what flax is or how it was processed circa 5000 BC
 * File:Heckrund3.JPG -- it is misleading to show a 20th century breed of cow and simply label it 'Cow'. It probably looks very different to the kind of animals kept in 5000 BC.
 * Considering the history and aim of the Heck cattle breed shown in the picture File:Heckrund3.JPG I consider it to be at the moment the best educated guess at what the cattle of the time may have looked like. I must admit though there are not too many clues found yet to exactly proove this reconstruction breed really resembles the cattle of the time beyound any doubt. --T.woelk (talk) 18:50, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Milk drinkers
Interesting article here: Linear Pottery culture first to drink milk. Also this article needs a map. Jagdfeld (talk) 14:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

The cleanup tag
The tag has been on since 2010. It isn't discussed anywhere. The article looks pretty clean to me and has a ton of references. I note some relatively minor changes have been made. I conclude that whatever cleanup issues the placer of the tag had have been fixed, so I am taking off the tag. If you see more cleanup issues, please tag or fix specific locations. I do not think the overall tag is relevant.

Past heated editorial discussion (way too heated, and very insulting, not to be tolerated today) leads me to think the placer of the tag may not have had cleanup in mind, but was really having problems with some of the content. That does NOT take a cleanup tag. It would take clarification requests, or some statement saying I had relied too much on one author, or was confusing, or it was unbalanced, or my sources were improper. You need to direct your criticisms at the problem, not put on general tags that have nothing to do with what you think the problem is. State the problem. This time, please discuss the problem.

I remind you that referenced material generally stays unless you are criticising the validity of the references. You can't just take out referenced material because you personally do not agree with the idea. If there are other ideas, put them in! Or, suggest that someone put them in. Discussion, discussion, always discussion. As far as the attacks ad hominem are concerned, I will have no more of those. Previously I responded with sarcasm, but, that is not WP policy, either. WP requires civility and so does good manners. I think you will find me responsive. I go by the sources. You are required to go by them also. If that means there are alternative referenced points of view, by all means let's put them in. It isn't up to us to decide what is right or wrong in the field, only to present what has been decided. I must say, you were attacking the wrong man. You really want to attack the authors, but you must do that with additional sources or show that I was not following the source.

In summary, then, polite discussion please. Tags must be discussed, please. Please place relevant tags at the proper locations. If you want to grade the article, you can do that is discussion. I would appreciate your telling us how to improve it (politely). I see we are up to a class B here. At some point I will probably be back. The goal is to get to a class A. I welcome collaboration.Dave (talk) 17:57, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Pastoral or arable?
Hi. I guess "event" is a little vague. However, pastoralism is not agriculture. They don't have the same date. Pastorals were wandering around feeding their animals on wild grasses long before they were able to grow any grasses on their own. So, pastoralism can't be an agricultural event. I'm taking the sentence out, though, for its vagueness. Also, if I have to explain it, it does not belong in the intro, which only introduces topics explained later. But, the topic is adequately covered later, so I wouldn't go out of my way to ensure exactly that sentence got in there. Economy of method.Dave (talk) 18:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, no, pastoralism is a form of agriculture and couldn't exist before the first domestication of animals, which happened around the same time and place as the first domestication of plants. But I don't understand why the tag was there either. joe•roet•c 18:37, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Relation to the Philippines?
On the wiki for Filipino inventions, it states pottery was first invented in the Philippines. That would mean pottery is only about 30 year old?112.198.98.31 (talk) 18:11, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

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Eastern linear pottery culture
The article currently repeatedly refers to "AVK". Is that another name for this culture? I get that impression, but it is never made clear in the article. Gunnar Larsson (talk) 22:59, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * There was a ref next to the first mention of the term; I looked it up and found:

"The Middle Neolithic Alföld Linear Pottery Culture (AVK)

The Middle Neolithic of the Great Hungarian Plain is known by a variety of different names and acronyms in the literature – Alföld Linear Pottery Culture (ALP, or ALPC) in English, Alföldi Vonaldíszes Kerámia (AVK) in Hungarian (see Figure 3). All of these terms attempt to differentiate this Linear Pottery Culture from its Central and Northern European successors, the Linienbandkeramik (LBK) and Stichbandkeramik (SBK)."

In English, it's "Alföld Linear-Decorated Pottery" - AVK). And here is yet another culture from the article: "DVK (Dunatúl Vonaldiszes Kerámia, or Transdanubian Linear Pottery)"--Quisqualis (talk) 13:55, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

 * Thanks for investigating this! I will edit the article as soon as I have more time. Gunnar Larsson (talk) 20:37, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Errors
"Long houses were gathered into villages of five to eight houses, spaced about 20 m (66 ft) apart, occupying 300–1,250 acres (120–510 ha)." "Excavations at Oslonki in Poland revealed a large, fortified settlement (dating to 4300 BC, i.e., Late LBK), covering an area of 4,000 km2 (1,500 sq mi)." These figures must surely be wrong, but I have no idea what they should be corrected to. Andjamin (talk) 23:04, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Expansion of neolithic Culture
The drawing is wrong. In the outskirts of Vienna (Brunn am Gebirge/Wolfholz) a neolithic pre-LBK ('formative phase of LBK, Starcevo culture) settlement has been found by Peter Stadler. After about 200 years it changed to LBK. The settlement was dated 5500 BC.

https://www.nhm-wien.ac.at/peter_stadler

https://www.academia.edu/4626907/Kotova_Nadezhda_Stadler_Peter_2012_2009_-_2_._The_formative_phase_of_the_Linear_Pottery_Culture_and_the_settlement_Brunn_2_in_Lower_Austria._St.Petersburg_Conference_Proceeding_of_the_Russian_Academy_276-282

Goetz48 (talk) 08:02, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Misleading genetics
"... Comparison of the N1a HVSI sequences..." The link is cruelly misleading, because suggesting that this could only be an mtDNA which is wrong. Very bad sentence. I will not edit that because I am tired to work for nothing than being reverted by stupid beginners.2A02:8108:9640:AC3:C582:78E2:E07E:65F1 (talk) 07:21, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Misleading chronology
" is a major archaeological horizon of the European Neolithic, flourishing c. 5500–4500 BC" - this is cruelly misleading. Checked?2A02:8108:9640:AC3:80B0:AF32:7658:C53A (talk) 16:30, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

Desiderata
Regrettably, here of all, a "genetics" paragraph is missing.In contrast, the misnomed map "Linear Pottery" is extremely misleading, confusing everything, in particular pottery in general with Neolithic in contrast to LBK.HJJHolm (talk) 06:16, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Linear Pottery culture


text:
Talk:Linear Ceramic culture

I suggest all three articles be merged (someone has to do the editing) under a new heading, Linear Ware culture. The is the title used used by James P. Mallory in his article in the Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture.--FourthAve 04:17, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Of course. Having three articles for the same culture is most confusing and ought to be done away with forthwith. Mallory is a good English authority to pin it on, although the Germans are not going to give up LinearBandKeramik. This isn't German.--Botteville 02:11, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Linear Ceramic culture


text:
The New World (short story collection)

The New World is a collection of short stories by Russell Banks. It was first published in 1978.

Contents

 * "The Custodian" – first appeared in New Boston Review
 * "The Perfect Couple" – Fiction International, nos. 6/7 (1976)
 * "A Sentimental Education"
 * "About the Late Zimma (Penny) Cate: Selections from Her Loving Husband's Memory Hoard" – TriQuarterly, Fall 1977
 * "The Conversation" – Shenandoah, Fall 1977
 * "The Rise of the Middle Class" – Canto, September 1977
 * "Indisposed" – Matrix, June 1978
 * "The Caul" – Mississippi Review, Spring 1978
 * "The Adjutant Bird" – Lillabulero 1, no. 3 (July 1967)
 * "The New World" – Ploughshares 3, no. 2 (1976)

title: The New World (short story collection)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Canada Drugs

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was merge and redirect -- Francs2000 | Talk 11:33, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Canada Drugs
It's just an online pharmacy, nothing that really makes it notable for an encyclopedia article. GarrettTalk 04:17, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment The online drugs business is a huge component of pharmacutical sales here in North America. Further, the sale of drugs to Americans by Canadians and vis versa, is very much a hot button topic. There may be a need for an article that explains the minutae of the issue (generic drugs, international trade laws ect ect) and the overall importance in the distribution of perscription drugs. Hamster Sandwich 04:22, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to List of pharmacies. There ought to be a Internet pharmacy article somewhere too. Double Blue  (Talk) 09:07, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge as per DoubleBlue. Mindmatrix 13:01, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, sound notable. - ulayiti 14:58, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with List of internet-based pharmacies (well, CREATE the list with this article) 132.205.45.148 16:13, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, nothing special about running an online business, millions do. This is a small part of a very big industry. Website's Alexa rank is about 43,000. No need for that other article either, since all the entries in it would be non-notable. -Splash 22:53, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's a very big deal about both internet pharmacies and cross-border pharmacies. It continues to be a political issue on both sides of the border and a feature of the 2004 Presidential campaign. Whether this particular pharmacy is an important element or not, I don't know. The article and source website both claim it is. Double Blue  (Talk) 23:59, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. And if the article's claim that it's 'Canada's largest pharmacy providing world-wide prescription services' and 'caters to over 30,000,000 Americans who are under-insured for prescription medications' are true, then it's certainly notable and I don't see why it should be deleted. - ulayiti (talk)  00:56, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * To User:DoubleBlue: I see. You evidently have 'issues' in the US that we don't have in the UK. If the claims of size can be substiated, I'll of course reconsider. It's rather hard to google for usefully, though. -Splash 02:23, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to List of pharmacies. JamesBurns 03:29, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge as discussed above. -GrantNeufeld 19:08, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:Brainpower

Untitled
This article was unsuccessfully nominated for deletion. See the record at Votes for deletion/Brainpower. Postdlf 04:18, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Brainpower. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080110175431/http://www.popinstituut.nl:80/discografie/brainpower.10131.html to http://www.popinstituut.nl/discografie/brainpower.10131.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 17:58, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Rewrite
I don't know a lot about Brainpower as I was introduced to him in the last 24 hours. Regardless, this article is a blemish in the Wikipedia database and I have started rewriting it to improve the quality of the English writing, as well as to bring it more in line with Wikipedia articles written about similar subjects. I will not be changing the content to remove any supposed facts, and it is not my goal to provide citations for the abundance of trivia in this article. I may, after the grammar and the structure of the article have improved, start chasing down sources to attempt to obtain citations.

title: Talk:Brainpower


text:
Adolf Berman

Adolf Avraham Berman (אדולף אברהם ברמן, 17 October 1906 – 3 February 1978) was a Polish-Israeli activist and communist politician.

Biography
Born in Warsaw in the Russian Empire (today in Poland), the younger brother of Jakub Berman. Berman attended the University of Warsaw, where he earned a PhD in psychology. Whilst a student, he joined Poale Zion Left and edited its two newspapers (one in Polish and one in Yiddish).

During World War II he was one of the leaders of the Jewish underground in the Warsaw Ghetto, and a member of the presidium of the Underground National Committee. He also served as general secretary of Żegota, the Polish underground Council for Jewish Aid whose aim was to rescue Jews from the Holocaust, and CENTOS, a children's aid society in the Warsaw ghetto.

After the war ended, he became a representative of the communist-dominated Sejm, and in 1947 became chairman of the Central Committee of Polish Jews. Berman was removed from this position in April 1949 because he was a Zionist.

In 1950, he immigrated to Israel, where he joined Mapam (United Workers Party). Berman was elected to the Second Knesset on the party's list in the 1951 elections, but on 20 February 1952 left the party and formed the Left Faction together with Rostam Bastuni and Moshe Sneh. On 1 November 1954 Berman joined the Communist Party of Israel (Maki), and became a member of its Central Committee. He lost his Knesset seat in the 1955 elections.

In 1961, Berman testified at Adolf Eichmann's trial in Israel. He served as chairman of the Israel's Organization of Anti-Nazi Fighters, and a member of the presidium of the World Organization of Jewish Partisans and former Nazi Prisoners. Berman died in 1978 at the age of 71. His older brother, Jakub Berman – was a leading Stalinist politician in post-war Poland.

title: Adolf Berman


text:
User:INaNimAtE

Hola.

title: User:INaNimAtE


text:
User:Tohlz

Contributions
Xianfeng Emperor (m)

Pen spinning

PS

Pen_twirling (Redirect)

Pen_Twirling (Redirect)

Kangxi Emperor (m)

Qianlong Emperor (m)

Clarinet (m)

Strategy game

City-building game

SimCity (m)

City_Building_Series

Impressions_Games (m)

SP

Singapore polytechnic (Redirect)

Singapore Polytechnic

Lee_Kuan_Yew

Microsoft PowerPoint

PowerPoint animation

Nokia N93i

VAIO

(m) = minor edit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tohlz

title: User:Tohlz


text: User:HowardBerry

title: User:HowardBerry


text:
Twisted Desire

Twisted Desire is a 1996 American crime thriller television film directed by Craig R. Baxley and written by twin brothers Carey and Chad Hayes. It stars Melissa Joan Hart, with real-life domestic partners Daniel Baldwin and Isabella Hoffman. The movie also stars Meadow Sisto, David Lascher, and R&B/pop star Jeremy Jordan. It aired on May 13, 1996, on NBC.

The film is presented as based on real events: the 1990 murders of the parents of 14-year-old Jessica Wiseman. Jessica had her 17-year-old boyfriend, Douglas Christopher Thomas, shoot and kill her parents. Thomas was executed in 2000, when the death penalty for juveniles was still a legal punishment.

Plot
Repressed teenager Jennifer Stanton meets Nick Ryan at a gas station and soon forms a close relationship with him, which she keeps secret from her parents. Nick has a reputation for having spent time in jail on an assault charge. When Jennifer's parents catch them in bed together and chase Nick out of the house, Jennifer continues dating Nick secretly. Jennifer is grounded for the rest of the school year.

Nick visits Jennifer's house, and proclaims his love for her. He also states what he thinks of the harsh manner in which Jennifer's father, William, treats her. William threatens to turn Nick in for statutory rape, and to "kick his ass" if he doesn't get lost. The next morning, William finds his car vandalized and contacts the police. Nick is questioned, but denies knowledge of the incident.

Jennifer convinces Nick to get his grandfather's pistol and kill her parents. While he plans out the murder, Jennifer tells her friends at school that she and Nick have broken up. She also presents herself to William and Susan as their idea of a model teenager. William and Susan let their daughter go for once to a slumber party.

After the killings, Jennifer moves into her grandmother's house and rekindles her relationship with her ex-boyfriend, Brad. She calls the police anonymously with information that leads to their discovery of the gun. With Nick in custody, the case seems to be closed. However, Detective Daniels suspects that Jennifer knows more regarding this case than she let on during police interrogation. When confronted, Jennifer claims that Nick was angry at her parents for not letting him see her, thereby explaining Nick's motive. Meanwhile, Jennifer's best friend Karen Winkler finds her diary; it reveals how Jennifer used Nick to do away with her parents so that she could have Brad.

Karen visits Nick in jail, and tells him how he's been set up by Jennifer. When he confronts Jennifer about it, she blames Nick entirely for the murders. Upset, he admits to the police that he killed William and Susan, but that it was Jennifer's idea. Karen tries and fails to find evidence of Jennifer's involvement. When Jennifer finds out about Karen's investigation, she threatens to implicate Karen in the murders.

At Nick's murder trial, Jennifer falsely testifies that Nick harassed her. Eventually, a wired Brad manipulates Jennifer into admitting responsibility for her parents' deaths and the police arrest her.

An epilogue reveals that Jennifer Stanton was tried as a juvenile, while Nick Ryan is still in prison.

Cast

 * Melissa Joan Hart as Jennifer Stanton
 * Daniel Baldwin as William Stanton
 * Jeremy Jordan as Nick Ryan
 * Meadow Sisto as Karen Winkler
 * Kurt Fuller as Detective Becker
 * David Lascher as Brad
 * Eric Laneuville as Detective Daniels
 * Collin Wilcox Paxton as Rose Stanton
 * Isabella Hofmann as Susan Stanton

Reception
Variety found that "Production is handsome and homey, and designer Phillip M. Leonard has infused a comfortable atmosphere with L.A. locales to back the telepic's edgy story. Joao R. Fernandes' lensing, Sonny Baskin's surefire editing are pluses; Gary Chang's bizarre title music jars — probably intentionally. Telefilm's a good romp for kids mulling doing away with their parents — or at least it's a good warning."

A review at The Movie Scene stated it was a "pleasant surprise as for a mid 90s TV movie based on a true story it is far more entertaining than the norm."

Hart's performance was noted by various reviewers.

title: Twisted Desire


text:
Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/His Majesty, Richard lake, King of The Sakonta Tribe

To whom it may concern,

I would like to make it known to everyone out there that reads this website, that this "tribe" was created by me, Richard Lake, as nothing more than a fictitious game as a youngster. I thought it would be fun, and it was... as a game: NOTHING MORE THAN A GAME. My parents and family had no bearing in the "game," although they did find it fun in a way, but knew that in the end, as did I, that is was nothing more than a make-believe game. I would furthermore like to make it known that I in no way acknowledge the Sakonta "tribe" as a real tribal or ethnic group, but rather signify that "Sakonta" was created by me as a fun way to experiment in politics, but was NEVER meant to be taken seriously. The fictitious tribe of Sakonta was dissolved years ago. Thank you all for understanding that Sakonta was never meant to be anything other than a fun way to experience politics in a fictional/reality way. In no way did I ever believe that Sakonta was a REAL country or tribe. Please regard ANY information concerning The Sakonta Tribe or People or Nation as nonsensical and make-believe, for it was NEVER meant to be taken seriously. :) I hope no "harm" was done. I wish everyone the best. Lskr (talk) 10:22, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pope's Hitler

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Dmcdevit·t 03:27, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Pope's Hitler
This appears to be fall-out from some edit war somewhere. Uncle G 04:24, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per Uncle G. Hamster Sandwich 04:28, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is not an encyclopedia article. — Ливай | Ⓣ 04:36, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and Redirect to Hitler's Pope--Porturology 05:31, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. It is incomprehensible --Maustrauser 12:55, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Allow, pace fair use of History and relevance to WP articles , such as the Holocaust 'Dubious' (discussion) in which  I exhibit  the most simple  error stemming from  lack of historical understanding . Let me finish  this job ....so you will be enabled  to change your minds . The edit war concerns what I term censorship, please do not  further  strike against your own History  or at least allow the full story and  facts to emerge , finally, upon the WP . I really do assure you of my good faith and that this is no idle vandalism but the entire  reverse . I would ask in fact that everyone help by going to the sources which I am not able to visit -such as the contemporary writer , like Writer John Cornwell , and several others . You will understand that this page is a true portrait of history , in the single title it contains, and that future WP articles will not diminuish , but magnify these connections of utility  . That the utility is deeply suspect and particularly relates to anti-semitism and the Communist threat , makes the events portrayed by historians here, extremely contemporary  and revealing of our present world -balance . I appeal to your good faiths by urging you to read it when it is  finished . I am quite aware that this is  not the normal form for an encyclopedic article , but  suggest , in good faith , that a  simple  short interpretation would be considered POV by certain injured feelings and  that in other words , there would be a complete failure of the WP to represent the world as it is . When there is sufficient wisdom that editors can agree as to the true nature of the facts and story, a simplified version could then  be  put forth . These  sections could rest as the  background proofs, such as are always required ,could they not?  Please visit the expansion here  and be patient . Even now please, each good faith editor-reverse your initial conclusions and suspend your judgements  the while .Famekeeper 15:31, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Let me delete entire- saving it to the discussion on a new empty Pope's Hitler article which I shall write in an encyclopedic  entry, twenty lines max- howzat ? Isn't that fair ?Famekeeper 15:56, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Incomprehensible, even given the knowledge of the book titled Hitler's Pope. Delete. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:04, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, created for POV promotion. Wile E. Heresiarch 17:57, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: my wilting flower says cyborgs win. Jesus said don't throw scraps to the dogs(Romans) . Keep your friki Im all over and done .You missed the story and  I've got better things to do  than paint cyborg brains . See link to  myy Rfc (kill famekeeper):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Famekeeper#Response Famekeeper
 * Ye gods! Delete and replace with redirect to Hitler's Pope, a legitimate article although not without problems. PatGallacher 20:24, 2005 July 23 (UTC)
 * Delete as original research (as evidenced by "You shall see that ...") - Che Nuevara, the Democratic Revolutionary 03:47, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, per Famekeeper's last comment (and PatGallacher's last too). -Splash 22:54, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: "Pope's Hitler" doesn't even make sense as a title. The Nazis did receive a lot of indirect support simply because they were not the Communists; a lot of people (even the Papacy) tried to pick the lesser of two evils, and maybe picked wrong, and maybe didn't. But this article isn't  about that (or about anything in particular, really). Peter Grey 05:23, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Is that what Catholic Holocaust Conspiracy is about? Uncle G 20:39, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Str1977 17:33, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Appears to be pure original research. Jayjg (talk)  15:22, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Robert McClenon 16:28, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Report facts, not name-calling.  Work on the article for relevant popes, and work on the Hitler article.  DON'T make an article titled with an accusation(however correct) Superm401 | Talk 16:56, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Ann Heneghan 17:05, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. — Hillel 06:43, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Roy Thomas Baker

Roy Thomas Baker (born 10 November 1946) is an English record producer, songwriter and arranger, who has produced rock and pop and songs since the 1970s.

Career
Baker began his career at Decca Records at the age of 14 and later worked as an assistant engineer at Morgan Studios. Encouraged by music producer Gus Dudgeon, he soon moved to Trident Studios, where he worked with Dudgeon, Tony Visconti, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, and Frank Zappa, as well as recording artists such as The Rolling Stones, David Bowie, The Who, Gasolin', Nazareth, Santana, The Mothers of Invention, Jet, Be Bop Deluxe, Free and T. Rex.

After co-founding Neptune (Trident's record company), Baker met the rock band Queen. He began a working relationship that lasted for five albums (Queen, Queen II, Sheer Heart Attack, A Night at the Opera and Jazz) and a number of awards – including Grammy Awards and the Guinness World Records for the best hit song, "Bohemian Rhapsody".

Following his successes with Queen and other artists, Baker signed a multi-album production deal with CBS Music (Columbia Records, Sony Music, Epic Records, etc.). He then proceeded to move to the US and set up the RTB Audio Visual Productions' Offices in New York and Los Angeles. At this time under his new CBS deal RTB produced Journey, Starcastle, Reggie Knighton (The Grass Roots), Ian Hunter and Ronnie Wood (The Rolling Stones).

Baker, also at this time, committed to produce four albums for The Cars after being prompted by Elektra Records to see them perform in a Boston school gymnasium. The albums were certified platinum and The Cars were Grammy-nominated.

He was offered the post as the Senior Vice-President of "Artist and Repertoire" (A&R) for Elektra Records as executive and/or producer with recording artists Lindsey Buckingham, Mötley Crüe, Joe Lynn Turner, Josie Cotton and Dokken as well as continuing with Queen and The Cars. During his tenure, Elektra signed artists Metallica, Simply Red, Yello, Peter Schilling, The World and 10,000 Maniacs.

Baker has also worked with artists Guns N' Roses, Alice Cooper, Foreigner, Pilot, Ozzy Osbourne, Devo, The Stranglers, Dusty Springfield, T'Pau, Local H, Cheap Trick and Lewis Furey. In 2005, he produced One Way Ticket to Hell and Back by The Darkness, The Smashing Pumpkins' 2007 album, Zeitgeist, The Storm's 2008 album When the Storm Meets the Ground, The Smashing Pumpkins' American Gothic and One Karma's 2011 album Life Got in the Way. He also produced Yes's 2014 album Heaven & Earth, 35 years after his previous experience with the band, working on sessions in Paris that did not lead to an album.

Discography
Productions by Roy Thomas Baker:

 * Arnold Corns: "Man in the Middle" (1971 – released 1985)
 * Free: Fire and Water (1970)
 * Nazareth: Nazareth (engineer) (1971)
 * Nazareth: Exercises (1972)
 * Gasolin': Gasolin' 3 (1973)
 * Gasolin': Stakkels Jim (in English: "Poor Jim") (1974)
 * Queen: Queen (1973) (Credited as Roy Baker)
 * Queen: Queen II (1974)
 * Hawkwind: Hall of the Mountain Grill (1974)
 * Robert Calvert: Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters (1974)
 * Man : Rhinos, Winos and Lunatics (1974)
 * The Trammps: ‘’The Legendary Zing Album’’ (1975)
 * Queen: Sheer Heart Attack (1974)
 * Queen: A Night at the Opera (1975)
 * Jet: Jet (1975)
 * Be-Bop Deluxe: Futurama (1975)
 * Gasolin': Gas 5 (1975)
 * Lewis Furey: The Humours Of (1976)
 * Pilot: Morin Heights (1976)
 * Ian Hunter: ''Overnight Angels (1976)
 * Gasolin': Efter endnu en dag (1976)
 * Starcastle: Fountains of Light (1977)
 * Starcastle: Citadel (1977)
 * Dusty Springfield: It Begins Again (1978)
 * The Cars: The Cars (1978)
 * Queen: Jazz (1978)
 * Journey: Infinity (1978)
 * Journey: Evolution (1979)
 * Yes: Paris Sessions aka Golden Age Sessions (1979; unreleased)
 * Ron Wood: Gimme Some Neck (1979)
 * The Cars: Candy-O (1979)
 * Foreigner: Head Games (1979)
 * Alice Cooper: Flush the Fashion (1980)
 * The Cars: Panorama (1980)
 * The Cars: Shake It Up (1981)
 * Heavy Metal (Music From The Motion Picture) (1982)
 * Cheap Trick: One on One (1982)
 * Devo: Oh, No! It's Devo (1982)
 * Fast Times at Ridgemont High: Music from the Motion Picture (1982)
 * Mötley Crüe: Too Fast for Love (1982)
 * Espionage: Espionage (1983)
 * Joe Lynn Turner: Rescue You (1985)
 * Jon Anderson: 3 Ships (1985)
 * American Anthem (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) (1986)
 * T'Pau: Bridge of Spies (titled T'Pau in the US) (1987)
 * Slade: You Boyz Make Big Noize (1987)
 * Ozzy Osbourne: No Rest for the Wicked (1988)
 * The Stranglers: 10 (1989)
 * East of Eden: East of Eden (1989)
 * Chris de Burgh: Spark to a Flame (1990)
 * Shy: Misspent Youth (1990)
 * Dangerous Toys: Hellacious Acres (1991)
 * The Stranglers: All Twelve Inches (1992)
 * Wayne's World: Music from the Motion Picture (1992)
 * Local H: Pack Up the Cats (1998)
 * Caroline's Spine: "Attention Please" (1999)
 * The Darkness: One Way Ticket to Hell... and Back (2005)
 * The Smashing Pumpkins: Zeitgeist (2007)
 * Transformers: The Album (2007)
 * The Storm: Where The Storm Meets The Ground (2008)
 * The Smashing Pumpkins: American Gothic (2008)
 * Jimmy Chamberlin's This: Great Civilization (2010)
 * Maximilian Is King. featuring Arthur Lynn and Nick Fowler: Songs To Kill Yourself With (2012)
 * Yes: Heaven & Earth (2014)

title: Roy Thomas Baker


text:
User talk:Nickj/Redirects/geo-disambig-014.txt

not sure what this page is about - but I changed the location of the page related to the Los Angeles Westside. West Los Angeles now links to the district of LA by that name. I didn't edit the link on this page cause I don't know what it's for. EmergentProperty 04:26, 23 July 2005 (UTC)


text:
Born/Dead

Born/Dead is a hardcore punk band formed in late 2000 in Oakland, California, consisting of Bill Jackson playing drums, Wyatt Culbertson (both formerly of Chemical Imbalance) playing bass and splitting vocal duties with guitarist Will Kinser. Will had been a member of the short-lived Santa Cruz/San Francisco, California band No Options. No Options had broken up suddenly upon the death of member Chad W. Rickley. All of Born/Dead's records have been dedicated to his memory and they still play No Options songs in their live set.

Born/Dead's style of DIY punk is influenced by hardcore punk, peace punk and some crust punk. They sound similar to Aus Rotten, Econochrist and Tragedy.

In 2001, after playing extensively in the San Francisco Bay Area, the band released their debut five-song 7-inch EP 24 Hostages as the first release by No Options Records, a label started by Will. After recording the initial tracks for a full-length album themselves, the band approached the long-running and successful Bay Area label, Prank Records to release the record. The nine-song Our Darkest Fears Now Haunt Us LP/CD was released in 2003 and featured a heavier sound than the debut. The LP's release lead the band to its first major U.S. tour and was quickly followed by a recording session at Burnt Ramen studios produced by Nate Smith and Greg Wilkinson of Brainoil, these songs were released on a split LP with Seattle's Consume, released on German label Yellowdog Records. This was followed closely by a 5-week tour of Europe with Consume. Levon from Shitlist and Deathraid played drums on the European tour.

In 2004, original drummer Bill Jackson left the band to concentrate on his other group Strung Up and was replaced by Josh Carman. The band prepared new material and in 2005 returned with a limited edition five-song 12-inch EP which they sold on a series of tours in the United States and Europe. This new material was more experimental than previous releases and some songs were re-released on a 7-inch EP on Prank Records. In 2006, the band toured the west coast with The Subhumans and World Inferno Friendship Society. They Followed this a split 7-inch EP on Tankcrimes records with San Francisco's Peligro Social. Will is also involved in No Options Records.

Born/Dead completed recording of a new 7 song LP entitled "The Final Collapse" at Ear Hammer studios in Oakland, and was scheduled to tour throughout most of 2007 to 2008 in over 28 countries, this tour saw the Markley Hart Econochrist play the Australian and New Zealand leg of tour with Pisschrist. In 2009 Born/Dead toured 5 weeks in Europe with Mackey Iveli of Peligro Social on drums.

2014 Born/Dead toured 7 countries in 12 days.

LPs

 * "Our Darkest Fears Now Haunt Us" Prank Records(2002)
 * "Repetition" limited tour 12-inch Prank Records (2005)
 * "Split LP with Consume" Yellow Dog Records (2003) Germany
 * "The Final Collapse"Prank Records (2007)

CDs

 * "Our Darkest Fears Now Haunt Us" Prank Records(2002)
 * "Repetition-Endless War" Prank Records (2006)
 * "The Final Collapse"Prank Records ( 2007)

EPs

 * "24 Hostages" No Options Records (2001)
 * "Repetition/Fear" Prank Records (2005)
 * "Assault-split EP with Peligro Social" Tankcrimes (2006)

Compilation

 * "Disturbing The Peace" V/A LP Six Weeks Records (2003)

title: Born/Dead


text:
Brian Castro

Brian Albert Castro (born 1950) is an Australian novelist and essayist.

Early life and education
Castro was born at sea, between Macau and Hong Kong, in 1950. His father was of Spanish, Portuguese, and English descent, and born in Shanghai. His mother was the daughter of a Chinese farmer and an English missionary. His first language was Cantonese Chinese, but his maternal grandmother taught him English, and he also learnt Macanese Portuguese (spoken in Macao) and French.

He moved to Australia in 1961, first attending a boarding school in Sydney, at St Joseph's College, Hunters Hill and the University of Sydney, after which he worked in Australia, France and Hong Kong as a teacher and writer.

Career
He was Chair of Creative Writing (2008–2019) at the University of Adelaide and director of the J. M. Coetzee Centre for Creative Practice there.

His first novel, Birds of Passage (1983), won The Australian/Vogel Literary Award. Double-Wolf (1991) won The Age Fiction Prize, the Vance Palmer Prize and the Innovative Writing Prize at the Victorian Premier's Literary Awards. After China (1992) again won the Victorian Premier's Literary Award. His sixth novel, Stepper (1997), was awarded the National Book Council Prize (Banjo Award) for Fiction. Shanghai Dancing was published by Giramondo in March 2003, winning the Victorian Premier's Literary Award and the NSW Premier's Award, and was named NSW Book of the Year. The Garden Book won the 2006 Queensland Premier's Literary Award, and The Bath Fugues was short-listed for the Miles Franklin Award, the South Australian Premier's Award, the Queensland Premier's Fiction Prize and the Victorian Premier's Literary Award.

In 2012 he published Street To Street, inspired by the life of the poet Christopher Brennan (Giramondo). Blindness and Rage won the Prime Minister's Award for Poetry in 2018.

In 2014 he won the Patrick White Award for Literature for his contribution to Australian Literature.

Awards and nominations

 * 1982: Australian/Vogel Literary Award for his first novel, Birds of Passage (shared award)
 * 1991: Victorian Premier's Literary Award Vance Palmer Prize for Fiction, plus the Innovative Writing Award. The Age Book of the Year. Three prizes for his third novel Double-Wolf + Miles Franklin Award (Shortlisted)
 * 1992: Victorian Premier's Literary Award for After China Miles Franklin Award (Shortlisted)
 * 1997: Banjo Award for Stepper
 * 2004: Victorian Premier's Literary Award for Fiction, and the New South Wales Premier's Literary Awards Christina Stead Fiction Prize and Book of the Year for Shanghai Dancing
 * 2006: Miles Franklin Award (Shortlisted), and the Queensland Premier's Literary Awards Fiction Book Award for The Garden Book
 * 2010: Miles Franklin Award (Shortlisted), The Bath Fugues
 * 2014: Adelaide Festival Awards for Literature (Shortlisted), Street To Street
 * 2014: Patrick White Award for Literature, Contribution to Australian Literature
 * 2018: Prime Minister's Literary Award for Poetry, for Blindness and Rage

Novels and verse novels

 * Birds of Passage (1983)
 * Pomeroy (1990)
 * Double-Wolf (1991)
 * After China (1992)
 * Drift (1994)
 * Stepper (1997)
 * Shanghai Dancing (2003)
 * The Garden Book (2005)
 * The Bath Fugues (2009)
 * Street To Street (2012)
 * Blindness and Rage (2017)

Non-fiction

 * (Monograph) Writing Asia: two lectures (1995) ISBN 9780731703364
 * Looking for Estrellita: Essays on Culture and Writing (1999) ISBN 9780702231155

Poetry

 * Macau Days (with John Young) (2017)

title: Brian Castro


text:
User talk:LordEnzo

Jorge Chávez International Airport
Why did you revert my changes? I would like to know a valid reason for each item (see below)... I have seen you are in een edit war for weeks or something like that with anonymous users as well since I was in Peru last month, without any discussing about the subject. We are not robots but humans!
 * Mentioning of "Civil" as first of two headlines cancelled by Belgian man (talk) 18:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC): not reverted anymore
 * Picture of Aero Cóndor and LAN Perú planes (better this than none!)
 * Aerosur service?
 * Chachapoyas/Chimbote service (LC Busre)? cancelled by Belgian man (talk) 18:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC): no mentioning because starting date of service is unknown
 * San José is not San Jose

Belgian man (talk) 18:53, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Hablas español? Belgian man (talk) 11:32, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sprichst du Deutsch?
 * Est-ce que tu parles le français?
 * Do you speak English?
 * Spreek jij Nederlands?
 * Hablas español?
 * Qan runasimita rimanki?
 * Loqueris linguam Latinam?
 * Parlas català?
 * Flas shqip?
 * I will consider next edits as vandalism. I am not able to communicate in other languages than these nine. You understand English very well! Belgian man (talk) 18:41, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Warning

 * 1) Vandalism on Jorge Chávez International Airport (edit warring without discussing the subject after several asks for talk). 11:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 2) Idem. 18:56, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:01, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:LordEnzo


text:
Talk:Zuo Ci

Untitled
This article was unsuccessfully nominated for deletion. See Votes for deletion/Zuo Ci for a record. Postdlf 04:27, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Amazing work
This really is what Wikipedia is for. This article has moved on an amazing amount since the first version, which was unsuccessfully nominated for deletion. Andymc 21:33, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Zuo Ci


text:
Orcutt Union School District

The Orcutt Union School District is located in Santa Barbara County on the central coast of California. There are six elementary schools, two middle schools, and one charter school, which first began on August 20, 2008. There are approximately 5,040 students and more than 500 staff members. http://www.orcuttschools.net/

Junior high schools

 * Orcutt Junior High School
 * Lakeview Junior High School

Elementary schools

 * Olga Reed Elementary School
 * Alice Shaw Elementary School
 * Pine Grove Elementary School
 * Patterson Road Elementary School
 * Ralph Dunlap Elementary School
 * Joe Nightingale Elementary School

Charter school

 * Orcutt Academy High School

Former school

 * May Grisham Elementary School

title: Orcutt Union School District