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Power Instinct

Power Instinct, released in Japan as Gōketsuji Ichizoku (豪血寺一族), is a fighting video game series created by Atlus.

The series is known for its absurdist humor. Unique to the series was the introduction of the transformation feature: several of the characters can change their appearance and fighting style by simply executing certain moves (usually a throwing move), though this has not been featured in every entry in the series. Other features include the ability for every character to perform a double jump, run, and attack while running.

Power Instinct
Released in Japan as Gōketsuji Ichizoku (豪血寺一族), the first game of the series was released in 1993. In it, players play as a member of the Gōketsuji clan, who are battling to determine who will replace 78-year-old Oume Gōketsuji as head of the clan. It has eight selectable characters and one unplayable boss character, Oume Gōketsuji, a palette-swap of her younger sister Otane. Originally, every character had a specific win quote for each defeated foe, but that was reduced to only one win quote for each character in the English version.

This game was ported to the Super NES and the Sega Mega Drive. The Super NES version includes some new play modes: Vs. Battle, Practice Mode, Time Attack and a "Life Attack" that consists of defeating as many opponents as possible with just one life bar (similar to the Survival Modes seen in other fighting games).

The Mega Drive version, which was never released outside of Japan, has a Battle Royal mode where 1 or 2 players can select a team, with an option to hide the characters being chosen so they are not revealed until the fight. Additionally, it features an option that allows the strength of each special attack of every playable character to be adjusted to the player's liking.

The English console version of this game, which was only released in North America, had several omitted features, such as Karaoke Mode with the lyrics for the songs "Tatanka no Uta" and "Otoko no Karatemichi", character biographies that pop up in between demos, the intro demo to the game and the scene of Oume where she speaks to the player before she fights them (which changes if she's fighting Otane). The North American Super NES version also replaces the endings that were in the Japanese Super Famicom version with a congratulations screen with the character portraits used in the pre-fight screen.

Characters

 * 🇮🇹 Angela Belti (アンジェラ・ベルテ) – Angela is an Italian strongwoman. Although she has a very rough lifestyle and a love for heavy metal music, Angela Belti is very passionate and tends to fall in love easily. She is very tall, and very strong, even stronger than most men and as revealed in her ending, quite a bon vivant woman.
 * 🏴 Annie Hamilton (アニー・ハミルトン) – Born in the country of England, Annie Hamilton is a calm and compassionate woman born within a rich family. She is at times overbearing and bossy, due to her spoiled upbringing. However she loves animals, and currently has six dogs, four cats, three horses and a turtle named Kensington.
 * 🇺🇸 Keith Wayne (キース・ウェイン) – Keith is a playboy who likes to flirt with women, which is one of the reasons that he enters the Gōketsuji tournament. Eventually, he met Annie Hamilton, who became the love of his life and since then, he has been determined to prove that he's the right guy for her.
 * 🇯🇵 Otane Gōketsuji (豪血寺お種) – As a child, Otane was constantly berated and abused by her older sister, Oume, and was neglected by her own mother, Oshima, due to her unwillingness to fight back. After many years of facing Oume's abuse, Otane decided to leave home at the age of 15 with only one thing on mind: train endlessly so that one day, she could beat Oume and prove that she is a worthy leader of the Gōketsuji clan.
 * 🇯🇵 Oume Gōketsuji (豪血寺お梅) – Oume, like her younger sister Otane, is a superhuman. To master her mysterious attacks, she confined herself to the mountains. Moreover, she has an eerie and unearthly presence about her and it is rumored that she can turn her opponents to stone just by gazing into their eyes.
 * 🇯🇵 Reiji Oyama (大山礼児) – Reiji is a very straightforward and honest Japanese fighter and is the ultimate training fanatic. He does not do well with minute details, but excels at physical strength matches. He works part-time for a construction company to exert his excess energy. He is somewhat a parody of Ryu from Street Fighter and many other karate warriors like Ryo Sakazaki and Robert Garcia from Art of Fighting.
 * 🇯🇵 Saizo Hattori (破鳥才蔵) – Saizo is a dark ninja who keeps his emotions hidden. He normally hides behind a ninja mask to avoid the contact with others, although on some occasions, his part-time job requires him to appear on stage in an animal costume.
 * 🇨🇳 Thin Nen (陳念) – Thin Nen is a violent Shaolin monk with obscene desires. This religious man studied ancient rituals to gain mystic powers and will do everything to get what he wants, whether it be women, food or money.
 * 🇺🇸 White Buffalo (ホワイト・バッファロー) – White Buffalo is a Native American who tries to protect the rights of his people at all costs. A man of few words, he appreciates the little things in life.

Reception
In Japan, Game Machine listed Power Instinct on their January 1, 1994 issue as being the most-successful table arcade unit of the month. Reviewing the Super NES version, GamePro judged that "Power Instinct falls along the lines of Fatal Fury, but it falls short." They praised the double jumps and special moves, but criticized the "passable" graphics and sound and the fact that the boss is just a palette swap of a playable character. A reviewer for Next Generation said the game has "average graphics, decent play control, and moves you've mostly seen before. ... Nothing wrong here, it's just typical." He gave the Super NES version two out of five stars.

Power Instinct 2
Released in Japan as Gōketsuji Ichizoku 2 (豪血寺一族2), Power Instinct 2 features five new characters, giving a total of 13 playable characters and one unplayable boss (Otane Gōketsuji). The game's story picks off from the last game, with Otane having defeated her sister Oume in the previous tournament. However, with the help of their mother Oshima Gōketsuji, Oume kidnapped her sister, threw her into the ocean, and forged a letter saying that Otane has quit as leader, resulting in a new tournament. Otane does escape and fights the winner of the tournament in a bid to defend her leadership of the Gōketsuji clan.

The game introduces the "Stress" meter into the series, which increases when one's attacks are blocked or when attacked. A super attack can be executed when it is full. In addition, when the Stress meter fills up, a character becomes engulfed in a flame of their own energy for a brief moment, which protects from any incoming attacks from the opponent and knocks them away if they are too close.

The PlayStation version, retitled Gouketsuji Ichizoku 2: Chottodake Saikyou Densetsu (豪血寺一族2 ちょっとだけ最強伝説), was only released in Japan. As the subtitle might indicate, it shares some characteristics from Gogetsuji Legends (described below), like the team battle and the possibility to play as Chuck and Kuroko, but these features are only available for Versus (player vs. player) mode. Unlike the arcade game, anytime a transformable character changed into his or her alternate version in the PlayStation port, there was considerable loading time that interrupted the match.

New characters

 * 🇯🇵 Oshima Gōketsuji (豪血寺お志摩) – Known to be the matriarch of the entire Gōketsuji clan, Oshima Gōketsuji is known for her strict policies and precise personality to make her clan the strongest throughout the entire world. She's the mother of both Otane and Oume Gōketsuji and often favors Oume over Otane, due to the fact that Oume takes up most of her own personality traits.
 * 🇯🇵 Kurara Hananokouji (花小路クララ) – A magical witch who uses her special powers and magical wand for her own benefits, Kurara Hanakouji seeks to have much fun and excitement during her travels throughout the world. Even though she looks like a 15-year-old, Kurara's exact age is unknown. When she gains enough power from a fight, she can change into her alter-ego, Super Kurara (a woman who wears roller-skates while fighting in scantily-clad clothing). In Matrimelee, her name is changed to Clara. She also stars in her own spin-off game, Purikura Daisakusen, and appears as an unlockable character in the PlayStation version of Heaven's Gate, another Atlus fighting game.
 * 🇯🇵 Kanji Kokuin (孤空院干滋) – An old man who is the ex-husband of Oume Gōketsuji, Kanji Kokuin now seeks to defeat the members of the Gōketsuji clan so that he can gain full control over the clan. He starts the battle off with his pumped-up muscles, but if he fails from within the initiation of his super move, he loses his strength and turns into a prickly man who only fights with his walking cane.
 * 🇯🇵 Kintaro Kokuin (弧空院金田朗) – A young kindergartner who is the grandson of Haruki, Kanji Kokuin's younger brother, Kinta Kokuin is known for being an obnoxious brat who takes up most of his grandfather's personality traits and that he won't stop until he gets what he wants. He fights in the tournament in order to impress a girl that he likes and he uses the assistance of his pets (a huge fish and a bear) to aid him. When he gains enough strength from within a fight, Kinta can transform into his alter-ego, Pochi (a man wearing a dog costume who fights by throwing power bones at the opponent).
 * 🇱🇧 Sahad Asran Ryuto (サハド・アスラーン・リュート) – An Arabian man who uses both his fighting skills and the power of the djinn from a magic lamp. Sahad's goal is to not only test out his abilities in battle, but to also impress Angela Belti, upon whom he has a crush.

Reception
In Japan, Game Machine listed Power Instinct 2 on their November 1, 1994 issue as being the third most-successful table arcade unit of the month. On release, Famicom Tsūshin scored the PlayStation version of the game a 23 out of 40.

Gogetsuji Legends
Known as Gogetsuji Gaiden: Saikyou Densetsu (豪血寺外伝: 最強伝説) in Japan. This installment lacks the Power Instinct title in its localization; this would be a trend for the series in its subsequent western releases, officially phasing out the Power Instinct branding. However, the game was incorrectly listed in MAME as Power Instinct Legends, although the naming error has since been fixed. The game's story picks up from the last game, with Otane being defeated by Kanji Kokuin, who became the new leader of the Gouketsuji clan.

This game is a sort of "update" to Power Instinct 2. All previous characters reappear, plus a few new characters. Super Kurara and Pochi are individual characters; because of this, Kurara and Kinta lost their transformations but gained new moves to replace them. Otane is also made playable. There is one new playable character, Kuroko, and a new playable boss, Chuck, bringing the cast to 16 characters.

The battles are in teams of two characters, a leader and a partner. This plays out similarly to The King of Fighters, where you fight with each character one after the other. A Super Block and a Charge Attack were brought into the gameplay. A Super Block can nullify the opponent's blow and allow for a counterattack, and a Charge Attack can immediately knock down the opponent or launch them into the air for another attack. All of the characters were given new special attacks, though the majority of them were exclusive to this game.

In Japan, Game Machine listed Gogetsuji Legends on their October 15, 1995 issue as being the fourteenth most-successful arcade game of the month.

Groove on Fight
Fully titled Groove on Fight: Gōketsuji Ichizoku 3 (グルーヴ オン ファイト 豪血寺一族3), this was a Japan exclusive. The story takes place 20 years after the last Gōketsuji tournament. It has a darker and more serious tone than its predecessors, similar to that of Garou: Mark of the Wolves, but still maintains some of the same humor that is particular to the series. Otane and Oume are the only returning characters, fighting as a single entry as they tied themselves back-to-back to each other.

The players can choose from eleven characters; all of them, save Otane/Oume, are new. The graphic style of Groove on Fight is very different from its predecessors, as the sprites are smaller, but are more fluid and have an animated look to them.

The Sega Saturn port of the game included some features like being able to play as Damian, Bristol Weller, and Bristol-D once the player beats the game with certain characters, the possibility of four players to play at the same time by way of the Saturn's multi-tap and an "Omake Mode" where the players can view artwork of the characters for the game. The Saturn version also features an arranged version of the soundtrack that has some new music themes that were not present in the original, like the theme "Mystic" and the vocal version of the title song.

New characters

 * 🇺🇸 Larry Light (ラリー・ライト) – A brilliant and optimistic man good with cultural conversations, Larry finds true happiness as more important than wealth or power. Larry's partner is Chris Wayne, a conflictual young man. He once helped Chris from being arrested for vandalism. Since then, Larry has been Chris's tutor and best friend. After losing against Oume in the previous Goketsuji finals five years ago, Larry received another invitation for a new tag battle tournament signed by Oume.
 * 🇺🇸 Chris Wayne (クリス・ウェイン) – An extremely violent boy and leader of a powerful gang in the Bronx, New York, Chris is able to hurt anyone at the drop of a hat. He often has troubles with his parents Keith and Annie due to his bad behavior. To distance from them, he accompanied his professor and friend Larry in his journey. Chris had told his parents that the journey was for "educational purposes". Chris eagerly joins Larry to join the new Goketsuji tournament.
 * 🇯🇵 Sujiroku Tenjinbashi (天神橋筋六) - The eldest son of the Tenjinbashi family chairman. When his father died, he took over the role of leader at a very young age. His family had ties to the Japanese Yakuza connected to the Goketsuji Family, but Sujiroku has no interest in their business. He wants to enjoy celebrating in festivals and participating in as many Japanese cultural events, traveling with a lion mask and drumsticks. In one festival, he met a young man who respected his work in preserving Japanese culture and proposed to join him in a martial arts tag tournament as his partner.
 * 🇯🇵 Hizumi Yukinoue (雪上火澄) – A young man obsessed with ninjas, a trait he got from his father. He is also fan of video games, manga, anime, and collecting soda cans. In fact, all of his fighting techniques are based on characters from various anime series, and he based his hair style on a character from a manga. While attending a summer festival, he met the master of ceremonies, and both felt mutual respect over their love of Japanese traditions. Hizumi told Sujiroku about a pending tournament and suggested that he be his partner to propagate the beauty of Japanese culture.
 * Flag of None.svg Solis R8000 (ソーリス=R8000) - A young police woman from the year 2115, Solis investigates the activities of a powerful organization suspected of tampering past events for its convenience. Thus she discovered that this organization was responsible for the disappearance of important families and financial groups 100 years ago; among these the Goketsuji Clan. Learning that she was a Goketsuji descendant, Solis travels back to the year 2015 to prevent the destruction of her clan. During the travel, her time machine malfunctioned and set her in a different time period where she met a mysterious scientist named Max Ax Dax. Solis asked Max if he could help her to repair her machine.
 * Flag of None.svg M.A.D. – A mysterious scientist whose real name is Max Ax Dax, his lab was located near the place where Solis's time machine crashed. He volunteered to fix the machine while Solis had contacted the Goketsuji twins, who invited her to the new tag tournament. When Solis asks M.A.D. to be her partner, he accepts: a perfect way for him to get more experimental guinea pigs.
 * 🇯🇵 Popura Hanakouji (花小路ポプラ) – Kurara's daughter, and a magical witch just like her mother. Popura has learned from her mother all of her magic tricks and fighting techniques. Her father has been traveling since she was a baby. Wishing to see her father, Popura decided to travel around the world with the hope to find him while bringing her father's gift for her: a very special teddy bear. After Kurara has mentioned her participation on a prestigious tournament, Popura invited her fellow magical classmate Remi as her partner to join the tournament. If she wins, it might be one step closer to finding her father.
 * 🇯🇵 Remi Otogiri (乙霧レミ) – The only daughter of a high class family with a deep hidden secret: they are descendants of an evil witch. Her calm and classy demeanor made her one of the most popular students in her school, motivated to show the power of music. She also met her classmate Popura there, who also has magical powers, whom she became best friends quickly. After hearing about the adventures of Popura's mother, Popura invites Remi to the tournament as her partner. If they win, that would earn her enough money to hold concerts around the world and help the poor.
 * 🏴 Falco (ファルコ)– An old man, expert at any kind of table game like cards or mahjong. Falco met the Goketsuji twins at Otane's casino, where he won against Oume in a poker game. Bitter at her loss, Oume attacked Falco but he was able to read through Oume's moves. Impressed by his skills, the twins employed Falco as their partner in the new Goketsuji tournament.
 * 🇩🇪 Rudolph Gartheimer (ルドルフ・ガルテイマー) – A ruthless man feared by everyone who knew him. The only person who has seen his tender side is his young servant, Damian. Once part of the Goketsuji clan, his family fell of the graces of Oume and were subsequently banished from the clan. The Gartheimers lost everything. However, his family recovered their wealth eventually but Rudolph still held great hatred for the Goketsujis especially Oume. He seeks to win the tournament to grab the family fortune and destroy the Goketsuji clan.
 * 🇨🇦 Damian Shade (ダミアン・シェード)– Rudolph's servant, secret lover and tag team partner, although he never gets the opportunity to fight, being shot by Bristol as soon as Rudolph is defeated. Damian was an orphan adopted by the Gartheimer family. With time, he became a very special person to his master, Rudolph. Damian is a pacifist and abhors violence, but his personality totally changes if somebody injures Rudolph. His ability enables him to heal a living being through his touch. The Saturn version of the game allows Damian to fight, as a secret character.
 * 🏴 Bristol Weller (ブリストル・ウェラー) – Born from a family of aristocrats, Bristol grew into a very intelligent and shrewd hypocrite. Since a young age he achieved a good social status and has received several awards for his charity activities, but all of this is a merely a front for his heartless ambitions. Even with his success as a Gartheimer company partner, Bristol had entered a pact with demons to rain destruction and exterminate anyone and anything to get what he wants.
 * Flag of None.svg Bristol-D (ブリストル-D) – After Bristol has been beaten once, his true identity is revealed as Bristol-D, a vampire and demon summoner. He captures and brainwashes your partner into a sickly blue-skinned hue, forcing him/her to fight alongside him. To make sure that chaos reigns in the world, he has the power to create portals to summon demons from the underworld. These armies of darkness are in fact characters from Atlus's Shin Megami Tensei franchise.

Gameplay
Gameplay is in a 2-on-2 format much like Legends, but with the ability to tag in and out at any time between players, similar to X-Men vs. Street Fighter. Whenever the player tags successfully between characters, the character who is on the sidelines slowly begins to get his or her energy back.

A big difference from the previous games is that Groove on Fight has a six buttons system. The two new buttons are for "Dodge" and for the "Powerful Blow", but are also used for stronger versions of special moves. the "Dodge" allows the characters to evade attacks and then counterattack the opponent. The "Powerful Blow" is an attack that inflicts more damage to the opponent than the normal strong attacks, but is also slower. The special guard and the shadow moves from Gogetsuji Legends are still present in the game and some other new characteristics were introduced to the gameplay:

Matrimelee
This new sequel, fully titled Shin Gouketsuji Ichizoku: Toukon -Matrimelee- (新豪血寺一族 闘婚 -Matrimelee-) in Japan, brings back the roster from Power Instinct 2 (except Angela, Oshima, Sahad and Kinta, the latter of whom was replaced by his alter-ego, Pochi), plus 4 totally new characters and one new boss (Princess Sissy). However, all the characters introduced in Groove of Fight were discarded. Jimmy, Elias, Lynn and Jones from Rage of the Dragons are guest stars, and are unlockable. A few of the game elements were borrowed from that same game as well. The western releases drop the Shin Gouketsuji Ichizoku title and remains named simply as Matrimelee (though the Toukon mark still appears). Released in 2003, it was one of the last games to be released on the Neo Geo.

It was followed by PlayStation 2 port Shin Gōketsuji Ichizoku: Bonnō Kaihō (新・豪血寺一族 煩悩解放). It was released exclusively in Japan. It features enhanced graphics and sound, the return of two of the older characters (Angela Belti and Kinta Kokuin), a new boss (Bobby Strong), and the return of the transformation feature. Gameplay was also improved in some areas, and super attacks were made easier to execute. The game has the same backgrounds and all the characters from Matrimelee (except the four secret characters from Rage of the Dragons), and because of that it is usually described as a port of the game, while in fact the game's story takes place after the events from the previous game, making it a sort of sequel or update. The game tells the story of the king from the previous game, who holds a "Bonnou Kaihou" ("Liberation of Lusts") tournament to cheer up his daughter Princess Sissy. This time the prize is anything that the winner could wish for (except the throne succession).

New characters

 * 🇯🇵 Buntaro Kuno (久野文太郎) – A delinquent schoolboy who enters the tournament to meet his idol, Reiji Oyama.
 * 🇯🇵 Shintaro Kuno (久野慎太郎) – Buntaro's younger brother and also a delinquent schoolboy, he enters the tournament to defeat his brother.
 * 🇯🇵 Hikaru Jomon (城門光) – A tomboy student who fights with a cane and enters the tournament to prove she is the best fighter.
 * 🇸🇪 Olof Linderoth (オロフ・リンデロート) – Princess Sissy's bodyguard, who demands him to enter the tournament to test himself.
 * Flag of None.svg Princess Sissy (プリンセス・シシー) – The Princess of Certain Country, trained to be the successor of the throne.

Gōketsuji Ichizoku: Senzo Kuyō
Gōketsuji Ichizoku: Senzo Kuyō (豪血寺一族 先祖供養) is currently the latest game in the series. It refocuses on the Gōketsuji clan, with Oume announcing a new tournament to honour the clan's common progenitor, Shinjūrō Gōketsuji. The combo system is now an aerial-based, akin to Arc System Works’ previous fighting games, such as Guilty Gear. Several new characters were introduced:

 * 🇮🇹 Sandra Belti (サンドラ・ベルテ) – An 82-year-old lady, grandmother of Angela Belti. She has the ability to transform in her younger self (Super Sandra), just like the Gōketsuji sisters.
 * 🇮🇹 Elizabeth Belti (エリザベス・ベルテ) – Sandra's younger sister, grandaunt of Angela Belti. Elizabeth also has the ability to transform to her younger self (Super Elizabeth).
 * Flag of None.svg Prince (プリンス) – Princess Sissy's older brother. He appeared in some of the endings in Power Instinct: Matrimelee, and makes his playable debut in this game. He can transform in a "good looking" version of himself (Super Prince), which gives him different gameplay.
 * 🇯🇵 Rin Oyama (大山凛) - Reiji Oyama's niece. She started practicing karate with her uncle since she was four years old.
 * 🇯🇵 Takumi Hattori (破鳥匠) – Saizo Hattori's cousin. Just like his cousin, this eight-year-old kid is very shy and wears a mask most of the time.
 * 🇯🇵 Shinjūrō Gōketsuji (豪血寺 新十郎): A century years old progenitor of Gōketsuji descendants and the son of Yagyu Jubei, who became an immortal blue skinned oni. Initially, his first form is that of a tiny shrivelled sokushinbutsu. While in battle, he becomes a muscular giant who can produce electrokinesis, similar to a Japanese folklore. He is currently non-playable since his debut.

Merchandise
Various merchandise based on the series has been released in Japan. The 253-page 1995 novel Gouketsuji Ichizoku: The Novel (ISBN 978-4-8470-3158-8) was published by Wani Books in 1995. It relates the history of the Gōketsuji family and features some art made by Range Murata. Gōketsuji Ichizoku: THE CD-ROM was published in 1998 by Toshiba EMI and contains information about the series including characters profiles, correlation diagrams, the family lineage, concept art, sounds and other artwork. It also has desktop wallpapers and screen savers.

Soundtracks to the first five games in the series were also released. Pony Canyon/Scitron released the first four, while Noise Factory released the Matrimelee soundtrack. In 2005, Noise Factory released a box set of all soundtracks to the first five games in the series, along with a 2005 calendar featuring art from them. Unlike the original releases, the CDs in the box set do not include the sound effects collections and the Groove on Fight's CD has the arranged tracks from the Sega Saturn.

title: Power Instinct


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Radio Pirata

Radio Pirata was a Rock en Español band from Puerto Rico. Rucco Gandía formed the band in 1994.

The band achieved success with hit songs like "El Loco" (The Madman). It was then that Fonovisa signed them up to release their first album. The album spawned hits like "No Me Dejes Así" (Don't Leave Me Like This) "Historia Real" (Real Story) and the #1 hit "Todavía". They won a Tu Música award in 1995 for Best Record and a Gold Momo in 1996 for Best Local Rock Band. In 1998 they followed with their second album, Todavía (Still).

Radio Pirata's debut was in 1993 and it was the first Puerto Rican rock band to perform at the Centro de Bellas Artes, Puerto Rico's most prestigious venue. Their line up at that time was: Raül Reyes (brother of former Menudo member Ray Reyes) on lead vocals & rhythm guitars, Gandia on bass, Roberto Torres on guitar, Roberto "Bobby" Trinidad on percussion, Nitayno Arayoán on drums and Rafael Carrasquillo on keyboards.

In 1997, Reyes decided to leave the band and continue his career as a voiceover professional and also continued to collaborate as a vocal arranger & producer for other international artists as Luis Fonsi, Charly García, Menudo, Ignacio Peña and Ricky Martín, among others.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Radio Pirata


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Three Sisters (District of Columbia)

The Three Sisters are three rocky islands in the Potomac River in Washington, D.C., west of the Key Bridge. A notable landmark in colonial times, the islets are less well known as the Three Sisters Islands and Three Sisters Island.

Bridges have been proposed for the Three Sisters several times, most recently in the 1960s, when the Three Sisters Bridge proposal led to a decade of protests and ultimately, its cancellation.

Geographical description
The Three Sisters are part of the Fall Line, a geologic feature which distinguishes the sedimentary coastal plain of the mid-Atlantic region of the United States from the basement rock of the inland. Part of this basement rock, the Three Sisters are composed of granite. Roughly 300,000 years ago, Atlantic Ocean levels were much higher. At that time, the lower Potomac River was submerged beneath the Atlantic Ocean, whose shores reached the Three Sisters.

The Potomac River near Washington, D.C. averages 10 - 20 ft deep, except near shore or the Three Sisters. However, there is a deep channel near the Three Sisters that is generally about 80 ft deep, but can drop to just 30 ft or less during low tide or periods of little precipitation. The rock formation generates sand bars which are often visible at low tide. No grass grows on the sandbars near Three Sisters. They are fully submerged at high tide. The height of the sandbars wax and wane according to floods, spring silt runoff, and drought.

The (traditional) navigational high water mark is Georgetown, which is why the town came to be. Georgetown, which preceded the establishment of the District of Columbia, was the furthest point inland that shipping vessels could reliably reach when coming up from the Atlantic Ocean. The C&O Canal was proposed as a means of navigating inland beyond Georgetown and past the obstructions of Little Falls and Great Falls.

Legends and history
Various legends and historical oral tales are associated with the Three Sisters. One of the earliest stories involves three Algonquian sisters who crossed the river in an attempt to win the release of their brothers, who had been kidnapped by another tribe. They drowned while crossing the river, and were turned into the rocky islets. A less commonly cited legend says three daughters of the local Native American chief were marooned on the islands by their father after rejecting the husbands he picked out for them. The legend holds that the sisters cursed the spot, saying that if they could not cross the Potomac there, no one could. A strange moaning or bell-like sound is said to come from the Potomac River when the curse is about to claim another life.

The first European to see the Three Sisters was Captain John Smith, who sailed up the Potomac River and saw them in 1607. The islets were a landmark in colonial times, and appeared on Pierre L'Enfant's first map of the area.

Three Sisters Bridge
A bridge across the Potomac River, using the Three Sisters as part of the supporting piers, was first proposed by Pierre L'Enfant in 1789. A bridge was again proposed at the site in 1826, but the plan was defeated after supporters of Chain Bridge (then a toll bridge) opposed it. A bridge was planned again in 1857, but debate over its exact location lasted for years. The onset of the American Civil War forced the cancellation of the plan.

In 1929, the Mount Vernon Memorial Parkway was renamed the George Washington Memorial Parkway by Congress, which authorized its extension to the Great Falls of the Potomac. The idea for a large George Washington Memorial Parkway came from Representative Louis C. Cramton, who introduced legislation in January 1929 to construct a larger system of roads and parks. In the Senate, the bill was amended by Carter Glass to include a bridge across the Potomac at the Great Falls of the Potomac. Congress enacted the "Act of May 29, 1930" (46 Stat. 482) — more commonly known as the Capper-Cramton Act — to establish the George Washington Memorial Parkway. The act appropriated $13.5 million to acquire land and build a parkway on the Virginia shoreline from Mount Vernon to the Great Falls of the Potomac (excluding the city of Alexandria), and to build a parkway on the Maryland shoreline from Fort Washington, Maryland, to the Great Falls of the Potomac (excluding the District of Columbia). (This section is now known as the Clara Barton Parkway.) A bridge across the Potomac at or near the Great Falls was also included in the final bill.

In 1957, Senator Clifford P. Case introduced legislation that would require the District of Columbia to build a bridge across the Three Sisters connecting D.C. and Virginia. In mid-1961, the District of Columbia Department of Transportation proposed constructing a six-lane, 160 ft bridge linking the Virginia and D.C. segments of the George Washington Memorial Parkway at the Three Sisters. The bridge was designed to carry the unbuilt Interstate 266, part of the proposed Inner Loop system of beltway superhighways designed for the inner parts of the District of Columbia. Construction of the bridge would also have required that Congress fund construction of the proposed Potomac River Freeway. Over the next 11 years, there would be several lawsuits (most of which were won by opponents of the bridge) and numerous protests — including an attempt to occupy the Three Sisters.

In 1966, Representative William Natcher, chairman of the Subcommittee on Appropriations for the District of Columbia of the House Committee on Appropriations, threatened to withhold money for the construction of the Washington Metro if the bridge were not built. Natcher was a strong advocate of highway construction, and used his subcommittee position to win support for public works projects in his home district; it was the House Public Works Committee which had first approved the bridge. A bitter eight-year political battle occurred, during which Natcher repeatedly deleted money for Metro from the federal budget. Repeatedly District of Columbia and United States Department of Transportation (USDOT) officials would agree to build the bridge, causing the Metro money to be restored, and then reasons for not building the bridge would be found. Finally, in December 1971, Representative Robert Giaimo led a successful revolt on the House floor which restored the Metro funding over Natcher's vehement opposition. Without the threat of losing Metro money, D.C. and USDOT officials quietly deleted the bridge from their construction plans. The bridge project was declared dead by The Washington Post in May 1977.

In popular culture
The islets are integral to the plot of Breena Clarke's best-selling novel River, Cross My Heart, set in the Georgetown neighborhood of Washington, D.C., in 1925. A false legend about the landmark (that three nuns drowned at the Three Sisters, giving the rocks their name) is given in River, Cross My Heart, and also by David Baldacci in his novel The Camel Club.

The islets also appear in Carolivia Herron's 1992 novel Thereafter, Johnnie, and in Margaret Truman's 1995 murder-mystery novel Murder on the Potomac.

title: Three Sisters (District of Columbia)


text:
Talk:Pog (drink)

1
The Galbiso story may account for the nation-wide craze during the 90's, but as a child in Hawaii, I clearly remember a period in the late 80's when milkcaps and Pogs were very popular. My father, who also was born and grew up in Hawaii, knew all about milkcap games, tho I don't know if the term "pogs" exisited in his day. So, I'm not sure if it is correct to assume that Galbiso is the originator of the pog game, as is infered by the article previously. -thirashima

Is Hawaiian milk magic? Everywhere else, the cream is at the top.

The Poglodyte is native to Bellevue
The text says "The Poglodyte is native to Bellevue." What does this mean? Searching the internet, I find copies of this WP article. I also find "The Poglodyte jest macierzystego do Bellevue" and "La Poglodito estas apartenanta al Bellevue", which I am guessing are also this same sentence. What does this mean? Which Bellevue? WP does not list a Bellevue, HI.  Randall Bart    Talk   19:13, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * . Was added in . Probably vandalism. Ibadibam (talk) 18:29, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink discussion
Thoughts? Candleabracadabra (talk) 20:28, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It's a real product, but probably not notable in its own right. Merge to Pogs? Ibadibam (talk) 20:39, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with Ibadibam, look to merge it to pogs. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 20:54, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Are there actually sources for the pog assertions? I haven't looked yet to see if it's covered in pogs. I'm thinking a merge to Meadow Gold Dairy or Meadow Gold Dairies would be better. Unfortunately neither exists as an article (one is a redirect). I have to sort through if it's all the same company but it seems to be fairly notable in Hawaii with a mascot and more than 100 year history if what I was correct. Anyway, I will try to dig in more when I get a chance. Any additional input, suggestions, or objections are most welcome. I just stumbled on the subject and agree that is doesn't seem appropriate as a stand-alone. But I haven't had a chance to look into in depth yet. Candleabracadabra (talk) 21:13, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry, but this discussion is absurd. Pog is a real, notable drink and we do not perform a cut and paste merge on any article that has been stable for 10 years into a new article without moving it to the new title to preserve the article history.  The question of whether this topic deserves its own article or under another name has never been discussed on the talk page of the article, nor have other projects been notified of this change.  There is absolutely no such thing as a "bold merge" which deletes the article history.  I will be undoing this change immediately, and anyone who is interested in discussing it can use the article talk page like you are supposed to do. Viriditas (talk) 01:00, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * If it's a notable subject and you want it kept as an independent article you need to add citations. The bold merge policy, including a discussion of bold merges, is clearly stated at wp:merge. Candleabracadabra (talk) 10:13, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Pog is gone
Their website no longer lists the product. The Mo-Ja'al (talk) 05:04, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pog (drink)


text:
Talk:Mr. Padre

This should redirect to Tony Gwynn and this information should be under the one heading. --Wetman 03:13, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mr. Padre


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Testmasterz

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Eugene van der Pijll 23:31, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Testmasterz
Advertising. Also duplicated at Test master, Testmaster, Test masters, Testmasters. Joyous (talk) 03:14, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete all. This is probably vandalism. Gwk 03:18, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Barf. Delete all, ads for non-notable company.  Dcarrano 04:49, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User talk:Rat144

=)

title: User talk:Rat144


text:
Feu d'artifice

Feu d'artifice, Op. 4 (Fireworks, Фейерверк, Feyerverk) is a composition by Igor Stravinsky, written in 1908 and described by the composer as a "short orchestral fantasy." It usually takes less than four minutes to perform.

Composition
Stravinsky composed Feu d'artifice as a wedding present for Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's daughter Nadezhda and Maximilian Steinberg, who had married a few days before her father's death. Feu d'artifice helped develop Stravinsky's reputation as a composer, although it is not considered representative of his mature work. The work has some hints of bitonality but is for the most part similar in style to that of Rimsky-Korsakov who, at the time, was his teacher and mentor. It has the form of a scherzo but is still labeled "orchestral fantasy" because of its short length.

Alexander Siloti conducted the premiere on 6 February 1909. The accepted story is that Stravinsky got the commission from Sergei Diaghilev to write The Firebird (1910) in part because Diaghilev heard this piece of music and was impressed with its orchestration. However, Diaghilev had already commissioned Stravinsky to orchestrate two pieces of Chopin (the Grande valse brillante and Nocturne in A flat) for the ballet Les Sylphides.

Instrumentation
The work is scored for piccolo, 2 flutes, 2 oboes (2nd doubling cor anglais), 3 clarinets (3rd doubling bass clarinet), 2 bassoons, 6 horns, 3 trumpets, 3 trombones, tuba, timpani, 2 percussionists (cymbals, bass drum, triangle, and glockenspiel), 2 harps, celesta, and strings.

title: Feu d'artifice


text:
CKXA-FM

CKXA-FM (101.1 MHz) is a radio station in Brandon, Manitoba. Owned by Bell Media, it broadcasts a country format.

History
The station went into operation on December 5, 1928 as CKX, and was owned and operated by the Manitoba Telephone System. It broadcast at 1120 AM until 1941, at which time it switched to 1150 kHz.

In 1947 the provincial government announced that it was leaving the radio business. The following year CKX was purchased by a group of Brandon businessmen headed by John B. Craig, managing director of Western Manitoba Broadcasters.

The station was affiliated with the CBC's Dominion Network from 1944 until 1962 and then with the main CBC Radio network until 1978.

The station moved to FM in 1999. It added an A to its callsign when it moved to FM, as it already had a sister station using the callsign CKX-FM. In 2001, CKXA changed to a Top 40/CHR format under the name Hot 101, similar to owner Craig Broadcasting's CKMM-FM in Winnipeg.

In 2002, CKX and CKXA, along with two other Craig radio properties were sold to Standard Radio. In 2005, CKXA returned to the country music format. In 2007, Astral Media acquired CKXA as part of its purchase of Standard Broadcasting. In 2013, Bell Media acquired Astral Media. It was known as 101.1 The Farm.

On May 28, 2019, the station rebranded as Pure Country 101 as part of a nationwide rebranding.

title: CKXA-FM


text:
Talk:Race (biology)

Penguin Dictionary of Biology
Much of the above discussion might have been helped by this entry: infraspecific variation, p296/7 in Abercrombie et al Dictionary of biology, Penguin, 8th ed. Part of entry: "A race is a non-formal category used chiefly in zoological contexts". The word is still used, though less than it was in the past. I think the adjective "informal" captures the sense well. That is why it would not be right to redirect it to a formal category. Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:31, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Does it tell anything else? So, according to this definition, race is a "category", not a "taxonomic rank" as restored by this revert. However, this is a poor definition because it does not explain how this particular "category" has been defined. My very best wishes (talk) 13:20, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The key part of the definition is "informal". "Race" is now an informal rank, so it's probably best not to call it a "taxonomic rank" since this suggests formality, whatever qualification follows. But "race" is a rank in the general sense of a position in a hierarchy. The sources given clearly establish it as being used for populations lower than (i.e. within) subspecies. Peter coxhead (talk) 13:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
 * No, this is your personal interpretation of cited sources and therefore an example of WP:OR. Taxonomic rank has a very specific meaning in biology. So far no one provided a single secondary RS telling: "race is a taxonomic rank". My very best wishes (talk) 04:01, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:NOR applies to article text, not talk page discussions, which are often and necessarily about how to interpret and integrate what various sources are telling us; the requirement to write in our own words, rather than plagiarize, requires this process. The article doesn't say "race is a taxonomic rank", anyway. Was there some other rib of the dead horse you cared to beat on?  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  04:59, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Current version tells: "In biological taxonomy, a race is an informal rank ... below the level of subspecies in the formal taxonomic hierarchy." This is wrong and WP:OR as something not claimed by secondary WP:RS. You can invoke "dead horse" as many times as you want, but an incorrect claim on a WP page will remain an incorrect claim. Race does not belong to biological taxonomy as currently claimed on this page. My very best wishes (talk) 13:21, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok, so how would you describe the way "race" is used in, say, this paper? Which part of the sentence you object to doesn't apply? Peter coxhead (talk) 20:08, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * OK. This article does not use race as a biological taxonomy rank anywhere. Taxonomic units in this paper are species (indicated by italic): Medicago sativa and Meloidogyne chitwoodi. This publication uses "race 2" as a biological population with a similar genotype and a phenotype ("Thirty genotypes were screened in replicated tests with M. chitwoodi race 2 or M. hapla, and the reproductive factor (RF) was calculated"). Obviously, indicating a specific race (population or variety) was important in their study. Yes, one could argue that a microbiologist would indicate a bacterial strain in a similar manner. Therefore, a distinction between "race" and "strain" is something debatable and possibly murky. Typically, a strain represent descendants of a single population, whereas "race" is frequently a group of related populations geographically separated from other groups (one race can be represented by several strains). In addition, "strains", but not races are widely used in biological databases for bacteria and viruses. However, regardless to the relationship between "race" and "strain", race is not a taxonomic unit/rank, and it has not been used as a taxonomic unit/rank in this particular publication. My very best wishes (talk) 21:28, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "M. chitwoodi race 2" is a taxon used in the paper (as per the definition of taxon here, which can be found in more or less the same form elsewhere – I just picked this one because it's online). It is placed in a classification consisting of a species – a formal Code-regulated rank – and within it (i.e. below it) a race – an informal rank. And this is precisely what the article says. No more from me; we must agree to differ. Peter coxhead (talk) 22:00, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, but your link on the internet does not qualify as an WP:RS by any stretch of imagination. No, M. chitwoodi race 2" is not a taxonomic unit according to International Code of Zoological Nomenclature or any other biological RS. My very best wishes (talk) 22:46, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * We've all been over this several times before. You are confusing biological taxonomy and biological nomenclature; the latter, consisting of formal taxa, is governed by the ICZN, ICN, etc.; the former is broader, and includes informal taxa. There's an entire thread about this above, in which you also engaged in the same WP:IDHT behavior, as if the fact that you confused them at some point means that reality changed and merged them into the same thing. Nothing seems to ever correct your perception on this, and you keep bringing it up again and again as if your argument had not already been refuted. (This is why you've been accused of trolling a few times up there; this pattern of circular "proof by assertion" is unconstructive and appears to serve no purpose other than to generate noise on the talk page. You've indicated offense at being viewed that way, but have done absolutely nothing to shift the view, and are only reinforcing it.) The source: It's not a high-quality one, but it appears to pass RS as an acceptable tertiary source, since it's professionally edited (by two research and academic biologists, and has some lower level staff, most of whom appear to be biology student interns). It's not categorically unreliable, and you've presented no evidence of reliability issues with the specific publication. It would be a higher quality source if it were affiliated with a notable institution, but there's no requirement for that at WP:RS, WP:V, WP:NOR, or any other sourcing-related page. It's certainly good enough to illustrate a point on a talk page. And, as Peter noted, the definition in question is found essentially the same in other sources; the link he gave you was for your convenience. He didn't need to provide you one anyway, since our own article Taxon, and the other two related articles linked above, already have sources you can read for yourself. If (as above in other discussions) you refuse to do the work to find and read sources, that's you recusing yourself from the consensus formation process about the sources and what is being sourced, not some magic wand that prevents consensus from forming without you.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  08:42, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I did not confuse anything. Please read this section of our page on biological taxonomy. It provides a very specific description what word "taxon" means in modern biology, and it is governed by the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature and International Code of Nomenclature for algae, fungi, and plants, exactly as described on the page. You are wrong about this. My very best wishes (talk) 01:32, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * their nomenclature purviews. You've logic-trapped yourself.  ICN does in fact recognize race, simply as informal. Moving on, since no one agrees with you. No amount of re-re-re-repeating an argument no one accepts, without new sources, is going to change anyone's mind.  People's minds change when you present information they were missing and then reanalyze in light of how that data fits in with what they already had, not by constant assertion that you're right. Several people's minds have changed about various things on this page just in the last couple of months (including mine) because of the presentation of facts and data, and sound reasoning about them.  Everyone seems to be engaging in this process here (both the sourcing and the reanalysis) except for one. (Well, two, counting the recurrent sock.)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  13:43, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * We can argue about this to infinity. That's why I asked you to simply provide a direct quotation from a source in another section above ("race is..."), but you did not provide it so far, even though you have the source handy. Having such quotation is maybe a minor thing, but a step towards constructive discussion.My very best wishes (talk) 14:13, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I decline to be drawn into a circular argument that is off-topic in this discussion and already the subject of its own thread. No, we talk about this to infinity, per WP:Talk page guidelines. To return to the topic of the article: I notice that you've ducked attempting to rebut the argument that was presented.  Please address the observation that your insistence that ICZN and ICN define taxonomy (as you understand it), combined with the fact that ICN accepts race as an informal taxon, demonstrates that race is a taxonomic term, even within the argument you're advancing. Just handwaving in the direction of other discussions about other sources and questions does not make this observation go away.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  04:31, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

 * To return to the topic of the thread: The Penguin Dictionary of Biology 8th ed. is obsolete; the current edition is the 11th (2004) . It's also been accidentally misapproached, I'd bet, as it seems to have presented a definition of race as a stand-alone term only, and no one checked if it also had separate entries for physiological race, etc. I have another source on hand from the same era that, like Wordsworth/Chambers, treats the term more broadly at the race definition, and also includes physiological race, etc. in their own entries, and that one in particular is botanical/mycological, not zoological). There's clearly (from sources already in article) been a resurgence in use of race by itself in mycology and phytopathology.  This highlights three problems with tertiary sources like these dictionaries: They date quickly, they gloss over details, and they squirrel away related information into separate micro-entries instead of keeping it together, making it easy to miss entries and misunderstand the found ones.  The 8th ed. quotation's only ostensibly salvageable content on the topic is "a non-formal category", which is too vague to integrate, aside from "non-formal" a.k.a. "informal", which we already had, cited to other sources. Well, it could also be used as evidence that as of the early 1990s, it was principally a zoological term when used by itself, but we not have context yet into which to insert such a factoid; as Peter Coxhead (I think) observed, we need material tracking the changes in usage and meaning over time. To the extent we want to keep looking at dictionaries, there are other more recent works, and I'm sure someone will get hold of them eventually if I don't.  I'm skeptical that continuing to pile on summarative tertiary sources is going to be useful past a certain point of clarification and contextualization. We're supposed to be writing a tertiary work (that, unlike most, cites its sources), based mostly on secondary sources, not cannibalizing and regurgitating other tertiary sources, which themselves are just regurgitating other sources they do not identify. (That said, there's no problem using them within WP:CCPOL limits, for the contextualization we need in the interim, until better sources are found.)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  07:21, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I certainly agree: this particular "definition" should not be used. My very best wishes (talk) 22:10, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

Forestry / botantical example
Example quote from a botantical/forestry work on the Douglas-fir: "Although the races described above were statistically significantly different, a degree of intergradation was evident. Thus, the northern inland race and coastal race intergrade in central British Columbia, northeastern Washington, and northern Idaho as well as in the mountains of central and east central Oregon. The coastal race intergrades with the Sierra Nevada race in coastal and northern California."

Provided by, over at Talk:Race (human categorization). This whole book would probably be useful here. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  16:19, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2019 and 18 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jajc1128.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:40, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

"prōles, stirps"
What is this "prōles, stirps" thing added to the lead? These don't seem to be terms used in English-language modern botanical literature, and it's not the purpose of a WP article lead to provide translations. The Latin term stirps is used in English (rarely) to mean "a line of descendants of common ancestry; stock", and may have some relevance to domestic animal husbandry but does not appear to be connected to the quasi-taxonomical term race in the sense this article is addressing. Similarly, prōles, which appear to have no regular usage in English sources, has sometimes been borrowed into French to mean "hereditary descendent, and by extension descendant, successor", again not relevant to this article. I'm reverting this addition pending some clear justification for it addition. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  18:34, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The cited source gives the details. In that original version of what has become the International Code of Nomenclature for algae, fungi, and plants, the term "proles" was used IN ENGLISH to mean a race. The discussion on page 42 says that the term stirps is also used, but that they are recommending using proles instead. The term was part of recommended scientific practice in the 19th century, and I do not believe that science pretends that earlier centuries are irrelevant. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 00:00, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
 * It should be proles then, not the ancient Latin prōles, I would think, and this can be covered in a history section; it doesn't help in the lead.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  06:37, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

"Race". Chambers Dictionary of Science and Technology
Does anyone have this source used to make the defintion? What are "genetically distinct phenotypic populations of interbreeding individuals within the same species"? Do you establish the "phenotypic populations" then find the genetically distinct ones later? Or is it the other way around? Are some species not interbreeding? I thought race was a level below subspecies? Does this level interbreed? But if someone put the name of a book no-one has seen after this apparent word salad I guess it must remain. Rupert the Frog (talk) 12:21, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

 * Hmm.. I don't have access to this source. The precise phrase turn up in many places in a Google search, but many may have been derived from Wikipedia, whether acknowledged or not. This web page sources the phrase to Gannett (2013) but she doesn't use this exact phrase – and even if she did, it would be in discussing Dobzhansky's views, so would be better sourced to his publications. I need to go to a library to access the Chambers Dictionary.
 * What Gannett does say is that Dobzhansky at one time defined races as "genetically distinct geographical populations"; she also says"The geographical race concept persisted, in which races are defined as spatially separated subgroups of a species that differ in their phenotypic traits, whether absolutely (presence/absence of a trait) or relatively (frequency of a trait). Geographical races possessing sufficiently pronounced phenotypic differences continued to be given trinomial names and treated as subspecies by taxonomists (e.g., Mayr, 1942)."
 * So in this spirit a better wording for the disputed phrase would be "genetically and phenotypically distinct populations of interbreeding individuals within the same species" (not "subspecies" because these can be what other taxonomists call "races"). However, this is my gloss, and anyway omits the important qualification that Dobzhansky always seems to have included, namely that races exhibit spatial or geographical separation. Peter coxhead (talk) 13:56, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Your wording is pretty good. I agree race can mean subspecies as well as infrasubspecific categories, although the article leads by defining it as just infrasubspecific. The geographical race concept is clearly a bit silly. An Indian elephant in an African zoo is still an Indian elephant. Nevertheless I guess we should cover all defintions, emphasising the current ones.
 * I think I'd define it as "genetically or phenotypically distinct populations within the same species". They would by defintion be interbreeding (at some point) to be distinct. I guess a stolen elephant child in a zoo would still be of the race, despite not interbreeding. Rupert the Frog (talk) 14:04, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, to be really precise you need to be clear that the geographical separation is "natural" and applies to where the potential races are native, not where they have been introduced or moved by humans. But if you don't include the spatial separation element, then you have problems with polymorphic species, like this snail. Shell patterns in snails or wing patterns in butterflies correspond to genetically and phenotypically distinct groups of organisms, but they aren't spatially distinct groups, so wouldn't be called "races". Peter coxhead (talk) 14:28, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

— SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  18:23, 11 October 2017 (UTC) PS: I removed "phenotypic" and "interbreeding" to better match the source. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  18:27, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't see how including a spatial criterion is informative for anything beyond itself, it seems arbitrary to me. Surely the various polymorphisms are what are of interest, not the location of the individual. If you had a snail with one morph, located next to a snail with another morph, they would be the same race? Is it just used as a mechanism to predict genetic variation incidental to the polymorphism of interest, based on the likelihood of proximal individuals sharing it? That is, you're interested in yellow snails in yellow land, and blue snails in blue land, but all of the other variation is common among both groups. But then why would you be interested in common variation if you focused on variation in a specific trait? It's one or the other right? You focus on overall similarity, or a single trait. And both can be called races, i.e. morphs can be called races, although I think they shouldn't. Rupert the Frog (talk) 14:48, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, one of the ideas behind Dobzhansky's concept of "races" was that they were a step towards the formation of species. Morphs that live alongside one another and freely interbreed aren't such a step. As illustrated nicely by the hooded crow, the boundaries between "races", subspecies and species are a matter of taxonomic judgement rather than purely objective fact, but geographical separation is an important component in such a judgement.
 * Morphs can be called races – can you give an example of this, one where "race" is used in the sense of this article, and not merely a loosely used term for "form" or "variety"? Peter coxhead (talk) 16:51, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Then Dobzhansky had his own definition of the word race, which is different from the Darwinian and I would say the way the word is used among scholars (scholars who aren't hostile to the race concept) today. Race defined by Darwin was entirely defined by ancestry and fitted into his taxonomy which ran from species to subspecies to races to individual differences. According to how you describe it Dobzhansky's use of the word was "more or less likely to result in species due to location" and Darwin's was "more similar due to shared ancestry". I don't see how Dobzhansky contributed anything useful because we already have the word location which can be use in conjuntion with the word race, or not, as you please.
 * People call morphs races all the time. E.g. calling Andamanese "black" or Jared Diamond calling lactose intolerant people a race. It's just based on misunderstanding, sometimes intentional. I could probably dig out examples in the zoology literature too, if I could be bothered. :) Rupert the Frog (talk) 17:35, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * This article is not about the application of race to humans; that's covered at Race (human categorization) in all its inglory.  The Race (biology) concept, a taxonomic matter, hasn't been applied to humans in a long time. "Morphs can be called races" isn't pertinent here; this article isn't about people misstating; it's about a very narrow classificatory use in modern biology by biologists. We could have a "History" section on prior, less strictly (or just differently) defined usage, but we need to be clear on the distinction between "how biologists use the term today" and "what this word meant in to someone in Shropshire in 1874 versus what some guy in Boston meant by it in 1902".  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  18:30, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have that one. The entry: "'race (Bot, Zool) A population, within a species, that is genetically distinct in some way, often geographically separate". Also provides a second definition, "a breed of domesticated animals", which isn't relevant here; it's a different usage (and archaic in English, though use of its cognates like Spanish raza remains common in some other languages). The definition ends with "see physiological race". That entry: physiological race (Biol) A group of individuals within the morphological limits of a species but differing from other members of the species in habits (as host, larval food etc), eg the several races of a parasitic fungus each confined to a different host. Also biological form, forma specialis."  Between this and other such works such terms can actually be distinguished a little; e.g., we have an article at Forma specialis which is a taxonomic rank, while race and biological form are not, though form (forma) is.  The usage differs a bit; e.g., an f.sp. name is given in italics, while a race name is not.  Chambers gives biological form as just a syn. of physiological race, and has no separate entry for forma specialis. It actually has no entry for form or forma in the botanical sense, so the work is not super-duper comprehensive, despite its >1300 pages. A truly complete science and tech dictionary would be a dozen volumes. >;-) See also the thread above, about definitional issues in the Penguin dictionary. It has to be kept in mind that dictionaries (including topical ones) are a) tertiary sources, b) obsolete in part by the time they are published, c) not in-depth works, thus glossing over many details, and d) descriptive (in modern works, anyway) of usage whether it's precise/correct or not, rather than prescribing a usage – things like codes of nomenclature produce a completely different kind of definition than a dictionary does. As for the current wording: "genetically distinct phenotypic populations of interbreeding individuals within the same species" – "interbreeding" seems superfluous and may actually be confusing (it can be read as implying interbreeding between not within the population, and "interbreeding within the population" is implied by "population").  "Genetically distinct ... populations of individuals within the same species" is a legit paraphrase of the source's definition.  The issue might be "phenotypic". It is implied by the race definition, and is a restatement of the awkward "within the morphological limits" in the physiological race definition, which Chambers cross-references but doesn't state is strictly synonymous; the fact that it has its own definition suggests it's intended as a subset, but it's unclear how many writers this work had and how well they coordinated; I've seen other overlapping entries in it.  At any rate, the Chambers definition does include geographical separation as one of the factors that can distinguish a race, but not a required factor; whether it "seems arbitrary" or not is irrelevant; it's sourced. Including it in our list of ways that biological races are classified is legitimate.
 * Well I agree with your PS at least, which is exactly what I suggested from the beginning. Do your posts have to be so long? Rupert the Frog (talk) 19:23, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes; when you ask for source details and make multiple arguments about multiple things, then the source will be quoted and the multiple things will be addressed one by one. PS: Being thorough also closes various avenues for further sockpuppet disruption.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  20:19, 11 October 2017 (UTC); revised 23:48, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Remove cleanup tag?
The article is tagged for cleanup for insufficient context since 2015. I don't see specific discussion about this here, although might have missed it. To my eye, it now has enough context and the tag could be removed. Montanawb tagged the article, and SMcCandlish revised the tag, in the past.

OK to remove? LaTeeDa (talk) 17:25, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Mgasparin (talk) 23:14, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Race (biology)


text:
File:Castlevania - Lament of Innocense (Gamecover).jpg

Fair use rationale for Castlevania: Lament of Innocence
Though this image is subject to copyright, its use is covered by the U.S. fair use laws because: Strangerer (Talk) 09:27, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) It is a low resolution copy of a game cover.
 * 2) The image is only a small portion of the commercial product.
 * 3) The use of the cover will not affect the value of the original work or limit the copyright holder's rights or ability to distribute the original game.
 * 4) It illustrates educational articles about the album from which the cover illustration was taken.
 * 5) The image is used as the primary means of visual identification of topics in the article.
 * 6) It is not replaceable with an uncopyrighted or freely copyrighted image of comparable educational value.


text:
Talk:Jimmy Miller

Viglione
This section has the sound of self-promotion, or someone promoting a friend (and not the subject of the article).--Adoorajar 03:17, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Viglione, a cable access host in Boston, is a notorious self promoter. References to him should be deleted.

Producer Not Musician
This article needs to be switched to Jimmy Miller (producer) not (musician), it clearly states in the article that he was a producer and not a musician, they surely aren't the same and I would like the article to change heading to producer instead. - Patman2648 05:51, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Jimmy Miller was both an artist and a producer, therefore switching is not necessary. 80.177.28.111 16:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC):

 * True, sorry, I should say that he was famous for being a producer and is best known as one, much like if you had a article on Jimmy Carter it would be under Jimmy Carter (president) not Jimmy Carter (peanut farmer). - Patman2648 21:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Any posts Joe Viglione made should not be taken serious.

My name is Dina Miller. I am Jimmy Miller daughter. Joe Viglione was my fathers manager for 15+ years and knows my father better than anyone. My father was indeed a musician as well as a writer. He plays drums on “you can’t always get what you want “, “Happy” and is the cowbell on Honkey to k woman. He wrote “ I’m a man “ by Spencer Davis & “ Medicared Goo” all documented if you read the liner notes of albums. Thank You Deena818 (talk) 13:45, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Commendable
"His work with Primal Scream is quite commendable"

Too POV, should be removed.

Deepcloud (talk) 08:43, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 19:55, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Kerri Ann Kennerley
I am Dina Miller daughter off Jimmy Miller. This woman was never married to my father Jimmy Miller. He was married to my Mother in the 1970’s and then married Geraldine after that. Keri Ann was married to a NY a producer with the same name. I have reached out to Kerri Ann myself and she confirmed that it was Indeed a mistake. Whomever entered this information is assuming my fathers info. I am not sure why ? Perhaps the MISTAKE of such a high profile producer, behooves them since she is now promoting a new book ? Please PLEASE make this right. I will send you our correspondence if you show me where to send it. Thank You Deena818 (talk) 13:41, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I've just now posted regarding this on the talk page at WikiProject Record Production. It would be helpful to get some reliable sources clearing up this matter one way or the other. Meticulo (talk) 17:43, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It looks like this has been corrected, since there is not currently any mention of any Kerry Ann Kennerley in the article right now. -- Jayron 32 18:09, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether the page as it currently stands is correct or not. Perhaps in my efforts at even-handedess, I haven't been clear enough. We currently have a usually reliable source in the Kerri-Anne Kennerley article saying she was married in the late 70s to a New York music producer by the name of Jimmy Miller. To my knowledge, no one has yet cited anything about the existence of a second New York producer called Jimmy Miller. Meticulo (talk) 18:58, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
 * That would mean that this Jimmy Miller had two wives at the same time; because he was married to a different woman from 1970, when Ms. Kennerley was 17 years old. If she was married to a Jimmy Miller, it would not have been this one.  It's a common enough name (I probably know 15 people with the last name Miller, none of whom are related, and Jimmy or Jim or James has consistently been one of the most popular male names in the US for a long time) so it is quite likely it is a different person.  -- Jayron 32 13:45, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I've added some hidden text to 'Infobox' and 'Personal life' flagging disputed identity. Meticulo (talk) 00:54, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jimmy Miller


text: Talk:Willy Wonka

title: Talk:Willy Wonka


text:
Talk:Politics of Wallonia

[Untitled]
As it stands now (see date in signature), this article is a direct copy of the former Politics section of the Wallonia article. I moved the text from the main article (Wallonia) because it seems to be out topic. Notice that the Politics sections in other articles talk about institutions, not about (secondary) political issues. Moreover, parts of the current text, even though possibly technically correct, have a POV flavor.

In my opinion, this page, as it stands now, is inadequate in Wikipedia. It should be either deleted or deeply edited.

Peya 03:17, 18 July 2005 (UTC)peya

I totally agree and confirm it is POV, Flemish nationalist to be precise. I have no time to write a new article from scratch but have deleted/edited the most outrageous statements. --Melodius 14:30, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Politics of Wallonia


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rights of the Lisa Act (Australia)

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was speedy delete. – Rich Farmbrough 10:55, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Rights of the Lisa Act (Australia)
This act does not appear to exist. The only references in search engines point back to Wikipedia or mirrors. Bollar 03:17, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. A hoax? Gwk 03:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete From the most cursory research on the subject it appears euthanasia laws are determined on a state to state basis in Australia. I found nothing specific to "Lisa", and nothing to indicate there is a national policy on the issue. If there is maybe the article should be expanded and appropriate links included. Hamster Sandwich 03:43, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No such act. The Rights of the Terminally Ill Act was passed in the Northern Territory in 1995 as a Private Members Bill introduced by then Chief Minister Marshall Perron. The Federal Parliament then passed the Voluntary Euthanasia Laws Act authored by Kevin Andrews removing the power from the Northern Territory and the Australian Capital Territory in 1997 - Australian states still have the power to legislate if they wished but none has. No-one would look for the Rights of the Terminally Ill Act under such a name so no need for a redirect. Capitalistroadster 04:19, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, hoax/unverifiable. Dcarrano 04:51, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:Bible errata

Prologue
Should all of the different titles of misprinted editions be included here? You have left out the Breaches Bible, the Treacle Bible, the Printers Bible, the Ears To Ear Bible, the Bug Bible and one where the red-texed "words of Jesus" were omited entirely. --Auric The Rad 03:18, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * Sure. Go ahead and add them. This was never meant to necessarily represent a "complete" list. I'm not familiar with those versions you mentioned, but I'm curious to see what they are. -R. fiend 17:52, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Kells error
The Gospel of Thomas found in Nag Hammadi in 1945 refers from the first century which is before than Kells manuscript, it's even considered older than Matthew itself as the Q domunent that inspired it, and it literally says in verse 16:

"Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war."

So the error should be noted as a correction of the actual error on Kells. Stratogustav (talk) 23:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC) Gustavo Avilés

Murders Bible
Sorry about removing the Murders Bible, I made a mistake. No vandalism was intended. --Auric The Rad 13:15, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * No problem. -R. fiend 14:36, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Geneva
Should the Geneva errata be separated from the KJAV errata? --ClemMcGann 14:45, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know. Do you think it's important? I don't really see any strong reason to, but I don't have much of an opinion. -R. fiend 15:09, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

KJV
Adulterers/Wicked/Sinners Bible: the Sinners Bible cross-reference goes straight back to this page. Is there a separate page for this somewhere or should the link be removed?

The New World Translation
How about the Jehovah's Witness bible? (added 17 March by 66.89.103.34)
 * By "errata" we mean mistakes, unintentional errors. I am unaware of any mistakes in The New World Translation.  Perhaps there are "deliberates", but that is not what this page is about.  Otoh, if you are aware of any mistakes in this or any other bible, feel free to add the details, Regards ClemMcGann 09:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

http://www.bible-researcher.com
Markruffolo added dozens of references to http://www.bible-researcher.com I do not see their relevance. I'm reverting. ClemMcGann 09:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Rosin error?
Interesting and funny article! But one has left me scratching my head:
 * "Rosin Bible" 1604: Jeremiah 8:22 reads "is there no rosin in Gilead?". Róisín is a girl's name. (The KJAV has a note at Ezekiel giving "rosin" as a alternative to "balme")

What does Roisin (girl's name) have to do with it? Rosin seems a fair translation and not an error....? ntennis 05:46, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair question and I'm unsure of the answer. I have added three sites, all of whom mention it. ClemMcGann 13:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Rosin is a modern word, what it means used to be called Colophony or Greek Pitch (see Rosin. Therefore when the Rosin Bible was written Rosin was probably only understood as a girl's name. This is an unverified guess by me. Clinkophonist 20:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you sure that it is modern? There is the phrase "roisin the bow", there even is a traditional ballad of that name.  It meant to apply 'roisin' or wax to the bow of a fiddle prior to playing it.  Otho, a criticism of the Douai  was that it used a larger vocabulary, words which would not be understood by the general populace at the time, in the preface of the 1611 KJAV the Douai is accused of 'obscuring the scriptures' because it used such words.  ClemMcGann 23:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I think the word was widely used at the time of publication of that bible (early 17th century) to mean a gum or oil used for medicine, lubrication, varnish, candles, etc. This is from 1662 (talking about the medicinal properties of chocolate!): "...and being mixed with rosin, it cureth the itch and ulcers; it strengthens the stomach, stoppeth the fluxes of the belly, it encreaseth milk" (pp. 58–60). [Stubbe H. The Indian Nectar, or, a Discourse Concerning Chocolata: the Nature of the Cacao-Nut and the Other Ingredients of that Composition Is Examined and Stated According to the Judgement and Experience of Indian and Spanish Writers. J. C. for Andrew Crook London, UK.]

 * An anonymous popular ballad, "The Unnatural Wife" from the time also uses it:

 * And being chayned to the Stake,
 * Both Reedes and Faggots then
 * Close to my body there was set,
 * With Pitch, Tarre, and Rosin,

 * and, equally unpleasant, in Wynken de Worde's 1527 edition of The Golden Legend, Erasmus of Formiae is tortured: "...a pan seething with rosin, pitch, brimstone lead, and oil, and did pour it into his mouth, for which he never shrinked."

 * Also, the name Roisin pronounced differently (here in Australia we say it like "Rasheen"), and though I don't know much about those times, I'm not aware of old spellings of rosin as "roisin". ntennis 01:58, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

 * By the way, the word "rosin" is given as "treacle" in the treacle bible, but this also appears not to be an error. I added a note that "treacle" could mean a "cure all" at the time. More on rosin: the American Heritage Dictionary has it arising in middle English (1000-1500 AD). ntennis 02:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Thank you for that. I'm inclined to agree the 'Roisin' was not an error.  Yet here on Wiki we are more concerned with facts which can be verified rather than our own original research. The sites quoted  and  in the article list it as an error.  So, first are we agreeed that it is not an error and then what should we do? Perhaps say that it was perceived as an error? ClemMcGann 02:13, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

 * The first link you gave lists it as a "Rare and Curious Edition" — not actually an error, though it still begs the question: what is rare and curious about it? The second link (which BTW won't load for me, I had to use archive.org to view it) has the rosin bible as a "Singular Rendering". I presume "singular" here means strange and eccentric, again, not an error, but still puzzling. I'll have a look at a minor adjustment to the text of the article for now. We need an expert! ntennis 02:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

 * This is a cool article, guys. I'd just like to leave a comment for ntennis, however -- begging the question does not mean the same thing as raising the question.  This particular misuse is woefully widespread these days.  See Begging the question for more details on what it ought to mean (it is a logical fallacy).  Cheers 70.132.14.22 22:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Bible errata lore - unreferenced section
The following text was added by User:199.17.175.160. It was unsourced and strikes me as a bit dubious, so I've moved it here until it can be properly referenced.

 * It was common practice among certain mariners to carry aboard their vessels copies of errata-laden Bibles before voyages likely to be perilous; said mariners believed that such was an omen of good luck and would protect both vessel and crew in rough seas.

--A Train take the 18:51, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Rosin again
"Rosin is a waxy substance used on the bows of stringed instruments." It's not waxy at all - it's brittle and sticky (according to Rosin, however, it's an ingredient in some waxes). Gimcrackery 10:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Sin On Bible
The entry was just changed from John 5:14 to John 8:11, but as they both use the phrase "sin no more", I'm unsure which is correct. Most of google's results point to 5:14, except these two which list 8:11. This needs to be checked by someone who knows or can find out with more certainty. Thanks. --Quiddity 17:20, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Wife Beater's Bible
Hi. I was doing some cleanup work, and adding some links, when I discovered that the Wife Beater's Bible is sourced differently in various places.
 * At bible.org: Part I: (Scroll down to heading: "Matthew’s Bible (1537)") it claims association with the Matthew Bible.
 * But Bible Misprints gives the year 1549, with no associated proper name.
 * Finally Curiosities says it is from 1551, and an edition of the Taverner's Bible.

However, none of our articles mention it, and based on Early Modern English Bible translations, the Tyndale Bible is the one famous for having "offensive notes (the "pestilent glosses")", so it could be that one too.

Having really just come for the Fictional Bible errata, I'll leave you more qualified bible-enthusiasts with the question of finding the best sources for these centuries old books! Thanks :) --Quiddity 01:37, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

 * This item should be removed anyway. It isn't an errata. It is commentary, which moderns find objectionable, but it isn't a printing or copying error.--Docg 08:19, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Would you suggest a new article for it then, instead? Just deleting the information is the least productive action. This is the information deleted.
 * Also, this article does include "peculiar translations" in its introduction, and the sources listed all group the "Wife-Beater's Bible" with these other bibles, leading me to believe it should possibly be kept together (where it was).
 * Thanks. --Quiddity (talk) 00:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

 * peculiar is POV. I can find you plenty of Bible commentary that would seem very peculiar to modern western liberal readers. The article is about errara which is a fairly objective phenomanon. Perhaps the Wife beaters Bible could have its own article, and be listed here as a "see also" link?--Docg 00:30, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

 * It's really Edmund Becke's Bible, which was issued in two editions (1549 and 1551). The text is often wrongly claimed to be a reprint of Matthew's Bible; in fact, it presents the Taverner OT and the Tyndale NT. The wife-beater note is present in both editions. 𝐨𝐱𝐲𝐩𝐡𝐞𝐧𝐵𝑈𝑇𝐴𝑍𝑂𝑁𝐸 ⓊⓉ 06:45, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Virgin Mary
Is it true that "virgin" is a mistranslation of a word that means something more like "young woman"? 210.48.96.202 (talk) 23:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it means "engaged" or something along those lines in anceiant hebrew. 122.105.221.214 (talk) 08:39, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * This refers mostly to Isaiah 7:14, which is translated very differently in Christian translations compared to Jewish translations. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What I've heard about it, is that the Masoretic (i.e., standard) Hebrew text uses the word alma, which was explained to me as meaning "young woman"; possibly unmarried (and hence presumably a virgin), but also possibly a young married woman. The (Jewish) translation of the Law and the Prophets into Greek, the Septuaginta, however, (I was told) employs the word parthenon, which is supposed to mean virgin (no more, no less).  Since I know very little Greek, and less Hebrew, I'm not able to verify or deny this explanation.  However, even if this is true (which I personally find likely, trusting my sources), it is not necessarily due to a mis-translation.  At the time of the translation, the texts were not yet codified; and some Bible fragments in Qumran (in Hebrew) actually are said to contain some formulations which are closer in meaning to the Septuaginta than to the Masoretic text.  Therefore, it is also conceivable, that the Septuagintans made a proper translation, but of another version of Isaiah than the canonical one.
 * In either case, this is not the kind of questions that this article should address - but it should explicitly state that it doesn't. JoergenB (talk) 14:35, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Moses
was described for several centuries to have horns which based upon a translation error. This is not mentioned here yet. --77.4.34.218 (talk) 20:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If you have a valid reference, then add it, that's how wikipedia grows ClemMcGann (talk) 15:06, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Evil bible
Why does Evil bible redirect here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.9.182.39 (talk) 03:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Post this question to User talk:Gwern who created the page - I have no idea why ClemMcGann (talk) 15:06, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Book of Kells
The above text is incorrect. The actual word in Matt. 10:34, in the original Greek, is "machaira," not "gladius." Machaira means "a soiritual instrument used to subdue the impulses to sin." For proof of these facts, please see the following:  - —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.251.104.164 (talk)   -
 * But, Kells was written in Latin - not Greek - ClemMcGann (talk) 17:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

vandalism?
"The 1589 Geneva Bible

Chapter 24:15 in the gospel of Matthew that reads, "When ye therefore fhal fe the abomination of defolation ſpoken of by David the prophet..." It should read, "Daniel the prophet."

is that vandalized? --142.162.76.71 (talk) 21:19, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

A: Likely not. But a mistake in transliteration; f and ſ look similar, the latter being a typeset version of the long s common in early typesetting. Substituting for the regular s would be proper, but incorrect to use an f. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.20.55.6 (talk) 22:43, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Treacle Bible image
I have an image of the Treacle Bible take at St Mary’s, Banbury, earlier today. It shows the volume opened at the page of the eponymous curiosity. Remind me if I do not upload it in a few days. – Kaihsu (talk) 22:44, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Uploaded. Perhaps someone will take a better-quality photograph next time they visit St Mary’s! – Kaihsu (talk) 08:44, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Skunk / skink bible
I think my Bible commentary book notes one where skunk is substituted for skink. That one is not on this fantastic list, and I'll have to find the book in my clutter to check. Anyone familiar with this one? Myles325a (talk) 07:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

What this article isn't
A couple of time, there has come up questions of another type of (suspected) Bible text errata - due to accidental or intended mistranslations, omissions, or additions (interpolations); c.f. and !. As explained in the former section, the purpose of this article should not be to discuss these kinds of "errors". However, they shoud be mentioned, with reasonable references to other pages that do. JoergenB (talk) 16:45, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Is it possible and proper to maybe add a one-sentance summary of this thought and idea into the article summary so the reader knows what they are getting into? Revjeff530 (talk) 21:06, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored
In the fictional section, the Good Omens example appears to be censored. This violates the censorship policies. Oscar001 (talk) 07:35, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * In this case the "censorship" is in the original, which means that omitting or changing it would be improper.-- Auric    talk  18:30, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Monochrome Bible
In the paragraph on the "Monochrome Bible" it is alleged that a plate containing red-letter text was omitted from the "Book of Timothy". Two problems here: there are two Books of Timothy; also, there should be no red-letter text in either book, because Jesus is not quoted in them. The alleged reference is a WP:FRINGEy-sounding offline book that is probably not to be trusted. Let's investigate this and make some sense of it. Elizium23 (talk) 11:03, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added a url to the reference. Not sure what you mean by "offline book" that's so bad... -- Auric    talk  18:28, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

King James
The info I have added to 'Judas' Bible photo is taken from a printed note in the church. It seems to be different from what is written in the article ("Judas Bible" 1611: This Bible has Judas, not Jesus, saying "Sit ye here while I go yonder and pray." (Matthew 26:36)) both in date and in citation. Etan J. Tal(talk) 23:37, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I am reviewing your article for a class and I found that link #11 “‘Vinegar Bible’ returns to Luneburg” in the References section that says, “oops the page you are looking for doesn’t exist”. I went to your original source and looked in the archives for the article then I replaced the link with an active one. BStam247 (talk) 02:29, 17 September 2018 (UTC) BStam247

Citations Everywhere plzkthx
Why doesn't every example here have a citation? Would it be appropriate to add "citation needed" tags to every single one of these examples? If not, why not? --Mattgilbertnet (talk) 04:21, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

 * The list of referenced printing erratas are numerous, however individual citations are extremely lacking. There are about 38 printings/examples mentioned and only 11 references given. Briefly looking to the citations, some references seem to be from good sources that are outlined by wikipedia: Google books, older published articles, scholastic books, university press. Some sources are from questionable sources such as “a note,” and an image from flckr (possible copyright infringement.) Some citations were broken such as #10 and #7. I had the knowledge to find the correct and more direct link for #7 and went ahead and submitted the change. I am new to wikipedia and evaluating this article as part of a class assignment. Revjeff530 (talk) 21:04, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Affinity Bible
I can not find an "Affinity Bible" from 1927. The only bible of that name mentioned on the internet before its addition in this Wikipedia article is dated to 1923 (example). Is that a different edition (if so, why does the article list the 1927 edition, and where is the source that it exists?), or has there been an erratum in this Wikipedia article for the last 12 years? That would be kind of funny. Renerpho (talk) 23:20, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

A reminder at this point that this article is severely lacking in citations. Every single one of the examples listed needs a proper citation. Otherwise one has to assume that the vast majority of them are erroneous (or fictional). I went ahead and removed all the unverified entries. Items can be reinserted into the article if they can be verified. Renerpho (talk) 23:35, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bible errata


text:
Talk:Lorenzo de Zavala

Zavala's views on slavery
Although Zavala was very involved with the government of the Republic of Texas, he had in common with Santa Anna that both of them were strongly opposed to slavery.

https://institutofranklin.net/sites/default/files/revistas/%5B2020-11/CR10-7-KINNALLY.pdf

"His narrative intimates that both the U.S. and Mexico are linked by histories of slavery, as well as constant battles against slavery. Abolitionists throughout the Western world viewed and portrayed slavery first and foremost as a moral and humanitarian problem, and Zavala likewise highlights this aspect in his critique of U.S. slavery.6 When 31 reflecting upon his time in New Orleans (also, significantly, the first city in the United States that he visits), he voices one of his most forceful critiques of U.S. democracy, the continuation of slavery, which he describes as “degradante” and “humillante,” enforced by “leyes que contienen pricipios sumamente antiliberales” and “medidas de represion tan ofensivas á los derechos del hombre” (32-36). Moreover, he argues that slavery leads to moral decadence and political as well as cultural stagnation. He writes that laws permitting slavery have “una influencia estraordinaria sobre el progreso moral y la civilizacion de los Estados que permiten esclavos” (36). As evidence, he compares the current state of publishing in free and slave states. In free states, he shows, the numbers of newspapers have increased dramatically over the last 20 years, while in slave states the numbers have remained somewhat static (or even decreased in the case of Louisiana) (37). Zavala equates literacy, publishing, and education as proof of progress. His critique of slavery in the U.S. thus clearly highlights one more impediment to the realization of a truly liberal republic in the United States."7 GalantFan (talk) 19:50, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lorenzo de Zavala


text: User talk:69.204.174.28

title: User talk:69.204.174.28


text:
User talk:Razvanr

Welcome!
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Image Tagging Image:IMG 1267w.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:IMG 1267w.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use GFDL-self to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

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title: User talk:Razvanr