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Talk:Kansai dialect

Distinctive features
Need to run that through someone more knowledgable, but one very distinctive feature of Kansai-ben, not covered yet, seems to be heavy tendency to use うち as 1st person pronoun, neglecting all others. mathrick 21:37, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Use of hen
I don't have an official source (maybe a native Osaka-ben/Kansai-ben speaker can confirm), but during the year and a half I spent in Osaka, I definitely noticed the use of hen instead of the standard Japanese plain negative nai in everyday speech.

example: wakaranai -> wakarahen ["don't understand"]; tabenai -> tabehen ["don't eat"]

Can someone confirm this? --Gar2chan 07:11, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that REALLY needs to be in there if it's not already. The past tense is usually henkatta and it's used incredible frequency all over Kansai, and in conjuction with other patterns as well. I won't put that in there yet, b/c i think someone needs to give orginization of the article a bit second thought (moreso the Japanese dialects article though). Also, if the n at the end of verbs isn't in there, that kind of goes in there with hen. That pattern is made by taking the base used in the nai pattern and putting n where nai would go. Past tense can also be done as nkatta, as in orankatta, meaning someone wasn't there (oru is common to be used in place of iru in Kansai regions as well).Alan 01:16, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

the "orankatta" isn't specific to Kansaiben though, it's used as far north as in Gifu. And south? I think it stretches even further.

On above topics
Uchi is often used as a first-person pronoun by girls and young women. Wakarahen as "don't understand" and taberarehen as "can't eat" are ubiquitous. Wakaran is just as common but more casual. Wakaran is a contraction of the older Japanese wakaranu rather than a contraction of wakaranai. This applies to all words with negative -n endings. In Osaka I also tend to hear -te harahen (e.g. itte harahen, isn't here) as the negative form of -te haru. I'm not sure if this is possible in Kyoto as well. I don't know if orankatta is widespread outside of Kansai, but I know that using oru as "you are" (kanojyo oru? "Do you have a girlfriend?") is not the standard usage (first-person humble). If anyone can give more feedback on these things, I'll work a bit on the article. Dekimasu 00:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

More on uchi: my Japanese-Japanese dictionary lists the "I" usage as "mainly Kansai-ben, used by women and children." Dekimasu 00:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Definately, if a man uses "uchi" people will think he's very feminine. "oru" is not hyoujungo but I have personally heard it being used in Gifu as well as in Shikoku.Mackan 00:50, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * My friends confirm that you can hear -te harahen elsewhere in Kansai. Dekimasu 10:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Excellent! --Gar2chan 09:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The french wikipedia article on kansai-ben has rather a lot more useful/interesting linguistic information than the english one. My french isn't that good or I'd translate it. -66.251.24.39 02:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Book Sources
The "Colloquial Kansai Japanese" book is NOT from 2006. It is from 1995! (and Consequently, it somewhat out of date)--220.12.252.13 19:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC) Since no one has commented on this, i've made the change. I have the book in front of me and was first published in 1995 by the Charles E Tuttle Publishing Co., Inc. but has been republished a couple times later. ~nobuyuki --220.12.252.13 14:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Kansai-ben in Anime
Reviewing this article, I feel that it should be expanded in two areas:

1.) As noted below, the corresponding article in the French version appears to be far more comprehensive than the page in English. Somebody familiar with all three languages should work on bringing all of this information to the article in English.
 * I don't think the French article has a lot of substance to it. It has a lot of examples of Kansai-ben (some stereotypical yet not necessarily present in the modern day).  In my opinion, the examples from the French article don't need to be in the English article because these types of detailed examples not only differ from region to region in Kansai, but also are likely to change fairly quickly. nobuyuki--220.12.252.13 14:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

2.) A section should be added citing the use of Kansai Dialect by characters in Anime. I am only a casual viewer of Anime, not by any means an enthusiast, yet I can still think of three such characters immediately: Ayumu Kasuga from Azumanga Daioh; The replacement organ company cyborg from Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (season 1, episode 8); and Mitsune Konno from Love Hina. I'm sure that anybody who watches more anime than me can find more examples.  What I find amusing is that in all three of the above series, the Kansai Dialect ALWAYS becomes a Texas accent in the English dub. This isn't always a negative aspect of the charcter - in fact I really enjoy Ayumu Kasuga's speaking voice and feel that it really adds an endearing quality to the character lovingly referred to as "Miss Osaka" by the rest of the Azumanga Daioh girls. I just think it's interesting that the American distributors of anime on DVD have decided to create a sterotype like this. It would be great if this article could explain exactly why characters from the Kinki region become Texans in the English version - the episode guide from ADV Films only gives a very vague explanation: "[Texas] shares the business-oriented attitude with Osaka as well as the country image that color both the Southern and Osaka accents". If anybody can expand on this, it would be greatly appreciated.
 * Put that in the anime article if you want, but it doesn't belong here in this article. How American anime distributors describe the situation bears no actuality to the content of this article on a Japanese dialect. Mackan 09:05, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't agree. How kansai-ben is viewed outside of Kansai is just as significant as how it is viewed within Kansai, it's worthy of a section. Just Heditor review 18:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I will have to agree with Mackan here. It may be significant to talk about perceptions of the dialect in other parts of Japan, and we can likely find sources that discuss that, but it is probably not useful to talk about English dubs of anime. That might possibly be an issue for articles on dubbing, or translation, but any discussions pertaining to English are not really about Kansai-ben. Dekimasu よ! 05:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree with you not agreeing. First of all, WP:A, secondly, do you speak Japanese and how fluent are you? Mackan 18:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Feel free to disagree with me not agreeing with you. That's not going to make me agree. And please refrain from personal attacks. I'll put this on the administrator's board and put a disputed tag on the article until then.Just Heditor review 20:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh, now you are WAY over-reacting. I ask how much Japanese you speak, which is a perfectly legitimate question, don't you think it's a bit ridiculous to label that a personal attack when we're discussing a Japanese dialect?? While I realise it was unnecessary of me to refer to the stuff you put in as "bullshit" (which I honestly think it was, though), I wasn't expecting that you would take it personally as you seemed to be an experienced wiki-editor. My mistake, but that still doesn't make this an edit war. Mackan 20:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

(un-indenting) I don't really think you're doing anybody a favour labelling this an "edit war"... Let's be honest, this is all down to the fact that I called what you wrote "bullshit", please try and rise over that comment instead of taking it personally. What you write is unsourced, and as I've already stated, you're wrong. Why do you then expect me to let it stay until you find a reliable source?? Mackan 20:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I must beg you to remove the "express has been concerned..."-tag. You're overusing tags to get your will through, and it's rather childish. It does the article no good to be cluttered up with tags as soon as somebody wants something included. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mackan (talk • contribs) 22:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC).
 * I'll check back in a few days when things have calmed down and we all can continue to improve the article, I hope by then Macken can use his expertise to achieve that end rather than argue with me. Just Heditor review 22:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If you think Wikipedia's attitude towards unsourced edits will have changed in a few days you are wrong. I'm arguing with you because your edits are making the article worse. Mackan 23:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Not to interject, but I would like to point out that the perception of a dialect of Japanese as "equivalent" to one dialect or another of a separate language is subjective at best, since the phonological, grammatical, and lexical developments and histories (not to mention socioeconomic factors) that characterize any one dialect are unlikely to be replicated with a high degree of commonality between languages. While there are certain points of consensus among certain media (such as the portrayal of Kansai-ben as either Brooklyn or Texan in English dubs of anime), this hardly constitutes a scientific viewpoint. It is merely a way of getting across the notion that a separate dialect is being spoken, and approximating (though not exactly matching) cultural associations such as Manzai / comedy in Kansai-ben. Nonstandard dialects are a problem for any translator, and each one approaches the situation differently; just keep in mind that whatever they do end up using to represent it is only there to give you an idea of Kansai-ben, not to represent it on a one-to-one basis. For what it's worth, a translator could represent Standard Japanese as BBC English, and Kansai-ben as Scouse, or Scots, or even Californian, but that doesn't make such a portrayal a "law" of any sort. --Julian Grybowski 00:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur. Dekimasu よ! 05:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you touched on the key point -- the portrayal of Kansai-ben as Texan or Brooklyn-ese in animes. I can live with the rest as long as the article discusses how Kansai-ben and its sub-dialects are seen by Japanese speakers (Osaka-ben is apparently brash, Kyoto-ben is apparently lilting, etc.), and that's pretty much already covered. Just Heditor review 01:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Then why did you add it again? Once again, the things you have added are about English translations of Japanese, and have nothing to do directly with Kansai-ben. Also, the external link is not from a reliable source. Dekimasu よ! 04:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed the section. The consensus is clearly against including it. Please do not add it again.Mackan 07:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I disagree, the consensus at worst is unclear, and at best, is clearly for it in my opinion. The translation of Kansai-ben and how it is seen in other cultural contexts is important and notable. Just H 02:52, 1 April 2007 (UTC)'
 * Now you might argue it's unclear, but when I made the comment, the consensus was 3-1 for not including it.Mackan 18:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this section should definitely be in the article. Translating kansai ben into English is a unique challenge, as the accent is often a crucial part of the humor and difficult to get that apart to English speaking audiences. As a reference, in the translator's notes for Magical☆Shopping Arcade Abenobashi the translator discusses why they chose to use a Texas accent for the characters. MightyAtom 02:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't you see how a section like that would be hopelessly US-biased? Should we put long lists in every language's dialectal article listing what they are translated into in different languages? Those who find this interesting are those who are interested in anime, can't you agree that this information would fit much better in an article called "anime dub" or something similar? (with a section on Kansai-ben). Mackan 07:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, not to be needlessly combative, but the fact that "translating kansai ben into English is a unique challenge" is not really a reason for including it in the article. Mackan 08:05, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Dekimasu sums it up well: "It may be significant to talk about perceptions of the dialect in other parts of Japan, and we can likely find sources that discuss that, but it is probably not useful to talk about English dubs of anime. That might possibly be an issue for articles on dubbing, or translation, but any discussions pertaining to English are not really about Kansai-ben."Mackan 08:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur with Mackan and Dekimasu. The information about "English Dubs" distracts from the focus of the article (which is Kansai-ben in the context and in relation to the standard Japanese language).  The trivial information about the convention of using regional US accents like Texas / Brooklyn / etc. belongs in an article more focused on Anime English Translation / Dubbing.  --Gar2chan 09:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I can understand that, although I disagree. The challenges of translating/dubbing kansai ben into English is relevant to this article, and a place where many non-Japanese speakers will encounter kansai ben.  There is a reference, so that can't be disputed. The fact that it is an English bias isn't really important, as this is the English wikipedia site.  Other issues of translating into French would be relevent to the French wikipedia, etc....  If a seperate article on dubbing kansai ben for anime were created, you can bet it would be hit with a merge tag pretty soon. To be honest, the only real reason I can see not to include a section on this would be out of some sort of anti-anime bias. MightyAtom 02:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I do think an English bias is a problem. See WP:NPOV. Although they do not explicitly list linguistical bias (then again it's by no means an exclusive list), I do think dealing only with English translations would be uncompliant with Wiki guidelines. Also, I was suggesting a separate article for anime translations (or just Japanese translations would be fine too), not for "dubbing kansai ben for anime". Mackan 17:33, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * In that case, the section should be about translation in general, not just about anime. There are lots of things that are translated from Kansai-ben into English (novels, original films, quotes in documentary films, quotes in nonfiction, quotes in newspaper articles, etc.), and it doesn't make sense to focus on anime any more than it makes sense to exclude anime due to bias. If the reference you are referring to is the translator's notes from your post above, I don't have access to that source. The one that was previously included in the article was an off-site Wiki, which isn't checked for accuracy or peer reviewed. Dekimasu よ! 02:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it would definitely be about English in general. There is no reason for it to be anime-specific.  MightyAtom 04:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hiya. I created the 'cultural importance' section, and put Template:totally-disputed-section in; hopefully, this'll be a clear indication as to what's under dispute (i.e. not the morphological aspects of the dialects.) In addition: 'analogous' might be a better word than "equivalent". --moof 03:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * "Cultural importance"? I really do not think that's an ideal name for that section. Mackan 18:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The issue seems to be the translation of one nation's dialects into another language, in this case English (being English Wiki). This is not an issue exclusive to Kansai-ben, but to any and every dialect in every non-English language that translation is applied to. For example, how are the use of Chinese dialects translated from Chinese films? Also, if a British company translates an Anime, what accent do they use? Welsh? Should that also be mentioned? Making a big deal out of some US companies translating Osaka-ben as Texan or Brooklyn accents seems out of place here. Perhaps a short sentence to mention it, but no more. You would think that any detailed explanation would be included in an article on translation in general, and on dealing with dialects in translation. The translation article mentions dialects in its "problems" section, but it has not been expanded on. Ka-ru 05:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This really isn't what you were speaking of exactly, but there is a Category:Fictional Kansai characters Evan1975 03:52, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Tag
The tag User:Just H has put up reads "The factual accuracy of this article is disputed". What fact on the page are you disputing? Mackan 22:27, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not any one fact, but the entire article itself, since there has been an edit war recently. If the Kansai-ben in anime section can be placed back without incessant edit warring, I have no fear that the edit warring won't return, and that the tag can go since this is what consensus has found.Just H 02:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think that is the correct tag. No one seems to be disputing the factual accuracy of the information already in the article. Dekimasu よ! 04:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the neutrality tag might be better. Just H 23:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with the spirit behind the tags, but I think a "lacks references" tag is more appropriate. The entire article is bereft of footnotes and in-text citation.  Footnotes on the more controversial statements would dramatically improve the article. -- Exitmoose 06:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with the current tags. Mackan 17:53, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * ...Yet "Just H" decides to revert them without deeming it necessary to provide any rationale. Mackan 19:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * "Just H" is a banned user. I suggest we move on and not focus so much on his edits, which seemed to be obsessively linked to anime translation and out-of-scope of the Kansai-ben article.  --Gar2chan 05:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion
Why don't you write about 河内弁/kawachi-ben in Osaka-ben topic?

Additional from a Japanese. You did not write the formal form. As for ‘へん’,　compare‘行きません’ and ‘行きまへん’. I consider ‘行きまへん’ is a S-dropped form of the standerd ‘行きません’. Sorry that I'm not a kansai-ben user. But if I could help, I will. --Oda Mari 10:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

 * There is a paragraph that mentions the polite form: "A frequent occurrence in Kansai-ben is the use of h in place of s in suffices and inflections. Some palatalization of s is apparent in most Kansai speakers, but it seems to have progressed further in morphological suffices than in core vocabulary. This process has produced the Kansai -han for Standard -san, -mahen for -masen, and -mahyo for -mashō, among other examples. In casual speech, the negative verb ending,which is -nai in Standard Japanese, is often expressed with -hen, as in ikahen "not going", which is ikanai in Standard Japanese." But the -mahen form is actually uncommon (except as a joke), don't you think?

 * I believe the reason that there isn't information on 河内弁 is that we aren't knowledgeable enough on the subject, and perhaps it lacks English-language sources. All that comes to my mind about it is that it's known as one of the strongest dialects. This is the only information about it on the Japanese Wikipedia: "大阪府東部の河内地域の方言. 南北でかなり差異があり、北河内地域では北摂地域と同じく、京都弁との類似も見られる. 河内弁全体としては以下の特徴がある. 疑問文、あとを受ける肯定文とも最後に使う助詞「か」が、「け」になる. （例文：そうけ？　そうけ. ） 「われ」を二人称の意味で用いる. " Dekimasu よ!  04:41, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi, はじめまして. Sorry that I did not notice the mentions. The -mahen form is actually uncommon? What do I think? I have no idea about it. As a standard Japanese speaker, what most irritates me is the kansai-ben 's accent. Especially when someone speaking almost perfect standard, and then he/she puts in a kansai accent noun or two on TV. Like April/sigatu. It's OK if it's a private,personal talk. But on TV not OK. Terrible English, I know. But you know what I mean. It seems to me the accent is the largest difference. --Oda Mari 16:15, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you're taking a bit too prescriptivist of a tack, but you do hit on a good point: the Japanese represented on television, especially the news, is by and large Standard Japanese. I suppose you could even call it "NHK Japanese" in the way that there's "BBC English." In that respect, hearing an identifying factor that makes one aware of the newscaster's geographic background is probably jarring, because it differs from one's expectations as to what an anchor should sound like.

 * As for -mahen... not being a native speaker of Japanese, it might not be my place to judge, but in my experience studying in Kyoto, what I usually heard was -masen with the s not always "connecting" with the roof of the mouth. However, I'm not sure if this is a genuine dialectal trait or something that comes about from speaking polite Standard and slipping partway into Kansai-ben on that suffix. My host mother always spoke politely in Standard and informally in Kansai-ben (and was a natural at both), so I can't really be sure. --Julian Grybowski 20:18, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Hmm, that's interesting. I do something like that with -masen when I speak Japanese (mouth open, se sort of whistled between my tongue and my palate), but I always thought it was a sort of non-native speech impediment. We always have lots of information here, but we're held up by a lack of definitive sources. Dekimasu よ! 02:20, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

It was very interesting to read all those comments above. What I wanted to tell is that when you speak in public, speak 100% kansai-ben or 100% standard. どっちかにしろ！ Media's influence is too powerful. Especially to children whose brain still learning and imprinting Japanese.

The spoken sounds and the written words are not always the same. Sometimes we drop a consonant as in すいません when you have to say すみません/I'm sorry. I hate this sound dropping and I never use the dropping form. Because すいません means different; 吸いません/I don't smoke. It is sad that now a lot of Japanese believe すいません is not only the speaking form but also it's the correct word itself. And we sometimes add a vowel when speaking as in じょうおう/jouou/queen. It should be じょおう/joou/女王. I have to admit I've been always using the vowel-added form and didn't know the difference. I learned it just recently on TV. But the Japanese linguist says this one is OK. I think the dropping and adding can occurs in any language. A lot of American drop c in picture, don't they? When I first heard it I misheard it as pitcher. As for kansai-ben I don't think I can be a good help. Why don't you ask kansai-ben native Wikipedian in Japanese Wikipedia? I found there are many and they proudly declare they are kansai-ben speakers. --Oda Mari 06:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * "Talk pages are not for general conversation. Keep discussions on the topic of how to improve the associated article. Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal". I'm sorry, but I fail to see how some of this discussion is relevant to the article. This is not a general discussion board. Mackan 10:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, let's also try not to bite anyone who's only been here for a few days. The intent was clearly to assist us with the article. Dekimasu よ! 11:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not think my comment was much of a "biting". I politely pointed out a Wikipedia policy, and that the discussion was moving a bit off topic. No harm intended and hopefully none taken. Mackan 12:38, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi MacKan. I'm sorry that I wrote something off topic. Please accept my apology. I know the fact that I'm a newcomer could not be an excuse. I should have known the policy. I'll never do something like this again. Promise. No harm taken. --Oda Mari 14:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

2 corrections, please

 * 1) 1 About the meaning of the standard slang cho. Super or sur- is better than very. Because when girls started to use the word they used it like this. ‘Cho beri ba’(cho very bad) or ‘Cho beri goo’(cho very good). Cho is 超 in kanji. 超音速/supersonic. 超現実主義/surrealism.

 * 1) 2 おおきに is the shortened form of おおきにありがとう/Thank you very much. Not equivalent to ありがとう/arigatou. It is written in a dictionary.

I recommend you to visit a homepage named めざせNATIVE関西人. --Oda Mari 08:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

McDonald's
The following line in the Well-known Kansai-ben vocabulary and phrases section has some significant grammatical issues:

 * makudo (マクド) - Mickey D's ; abbreviation of "Makudonarudo"(McDonald's' Japanese pronunciation), almost non-Kansai Japanese call "makku"(Mac).

I'm not sure if that's supposed to read, "almost all non-Kansai Japanese call McDonald's "makku"(Mac)," or what it's supposed to say. -- Masamunecyrus(talk)(contribs) 13:05, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm the person who wrote "makudo". I'm sorry that you were confused with my poor English...

I wanted to tell you that 'while almost Japanese people call McDonald's "makku", Kansai people call McDonald' "makudo"'.--Kyoww 09:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

 * No problem. I changed it to this:
 * makudo (マクド) - Mickey D's; abbreviation of "Makudonarudo" (McDonald's' Japanese pronunciation), almost all non-Kansai Japanese refer to McDonald's as, "makku" (Mac).
 * It still doesn't sound quite encyclopedic, but it works well enough until someone can think of a better way to state it. ^^ -- Masamunecyrus(talk)(contribs) [[Image:Flag of the United States.svg|25px| ]] 15:05, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

keigo
This term isn't defined within the article space, making the hole section not clear. It would be nice to also get some citation on perceptions of politeness.--Hitsuji Kinno 00:15, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

xx-ben doesn't sound scholarstic
Hi, I feel a bit strange that xx-ben is using to refer to sub-dialect. It goes through commonly, but very colloquial, hence I am not sure if it is appropriate for scientific article which is expected to be on an encyclopedia. Also some part is very unscholatic. For example, Osaka-ben is too vague notion: the dialects in Osaka prefecture are divides five (Downtown, often refered "Semba" dialect, Kawachi dialect, Izumi dialect, Yodo river left bank dialect [or North Settsu dialect] and Yodo river right bank dialect [or Settsu dialect]), and Kobe-ben and one of dialect found in Osaka (Yodo river left bank dialect, commonly called Settsu-ben or Hokusetsu-ben) are considered almost similar by linguists. Also I suspect if there is a confusion of Yodo river left bank dialect, Kobe-ben in its original meaning and Banshu (Harima province) dialect, which were originally spoke in the western part of Kobe city (it belonged to Harima province). Anyway I think this part, Specific dialects, should be rewritten based in academic sources. --Aphaia 20:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC) Then, I think one the best contribution you could make is to point out those academic sources so editors can evaluate them. Otherwise, your comments are on the sterile side. Or you can introduce some changes yourself making reference to the sources you mention. --Firen Drakendorf 02:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

yaru
I think that "yaru" in "Well-known Kansai-ben vocabulary and phrases" is wrong. The account says 'in Standard Japanese only used when referring to giving to somebody well "under" the speaker, such as giving food to a dog'. However, in Kansai-ben used when similar situation, too. --Kyoww 12:26, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Not only though, and that's exactly what it says. I don't think there's any problem with the current explanation.　-- Mackan talk 23:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Personal pronouns
I don't know a lot about Kansai-ben, but I often hear the first-person singular personal pronoun Wai (わい) used by Kansai speakers in TV. Also sometimes Wate (わて) Do you think these should be up here? Evan1975 04:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I wrote these.--Kyoww 06:45, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I haven't really heard "wai" around Osaka, but I have heard "oi" (plural: "oira"). I suppose if you consider "wai" a dialectal version of "ware," the same may be true of "oi" with respect to "ore," but I have no direct evidence to back this up. --Julian Grybowski 07:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I looked up "oi" and "oira" in "Kamigata Gogen Jiten (Kamigata etymology dictionary)", but I couldn't find these words. --Kyoww 07:14, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that there should be a separate section for pronouns, anyone agree? I'm pretty new to Wikipedia so I really don't know how to do it correctly... ILuvEire (talk) 22:33, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Kansai-ben absorbed into colloquial Standard Japanese
I noticed several expressions described as Kansai-ben that I would claim have been largely absorbed into colloquial Standard Japanese. Specifically: in increasing order of pervasiveness in Standard Japanese, as far as I can gather. This is just my [educated but not scholarly per se] opinion; anyone agree or disagree? Istaro 13:37, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Omoroi for "interesting"
 * Metcha for "very"
 * The falling-pitch sentence-final wa used by men (as opposed to the rising-pitch sentence-final wa used by women which is already well-recognized as being universal)

I agree your opinon. Primarily, Standard Japanese was birth from fusion of different dialects. For example, "da" "desu" is from Tokyo, "arigato" "ohayo" is from Kansai, "kora!" is from Kagoshima. "omoroi" "metcha" show that Standard Japanese goes on taking over other dialects.--Kyoww 15:09, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Advertisement
The user language templates of Kansai-ben (Template:User ja-ksb) were finished. If you speak Kansai-ben, let's use the templates in your user page, please.--Kyoww (talk) 11:37, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

International School
Is there some international school in Japan that officially teach Japanese with Osaka-ben ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.29.99.45 (talk) 12:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Maybe nothing, but there must be teachers teaching with their Osaka-ben in unconsciously. Incidentally, not an international school but an university school, there is a teacher who teach the "Kansai-language" formal lecture in Hokkaido University. --Kyoww (talk) 14:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Kana
I think this page should have kana, instead of romaji. Or maybe both? What sort of policy does Wikipedia have on romanization? ILuvEire (talk) 03:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

"Zo" in Kansai-ben
The article says this:
 * The emphatic particles zo and ze heard so often in the mouths of Tokyo men are nowhere to be heard in the Kansai region.

I'm not very experienced with Japanese and certainly not with Kansai-ben, but this Jinnai Tomonori sketch clearly has Jinnai using Kansai-ben and "zo" in the same sentence, at 3:41, when Jinnai says ほんまやらへんぞ. So unless Jinnai's speech is unusual in some way, I wouldn't say that use of "zo" is "nowhere to be found". - furrykef (Talk at me) 22:25, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I amended that part.--Kyoww (talk) 03:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Potential form of verbs
Nothing seems to be written about the potential form of verbs yet. In Osaka, at least, I see a strong tendency towards treating all potential forms of verbs the same, whether ichidan or godan: verb stem + "-(r)eru" for the affirmative, and the passive form (verb stem + "-(r)arehen") for the negative. For example: etc.
 * taberu > tabereru, tabehen > taberarehen (standard "taberareru", "taberarenai")
 * deru > dereru, dēhen > derarehen (standard "derareru", "derarenai")
 * hairu > haireru, hairahen > hairarehen (standard "haireru", "hairenai")
 * iku > ikeru, ikehen > ikarehen (standard "ikeru", "ikenai")

Ichidan verbs ending in "-seru" ("miseru" plus all causative verbs) also appear to have gained almost a special verb paradigm, combining ichidan and godan characteristics (and at times imperfectly resembling archaic lower nidan verbs), but I can't explain very well. (causative verbs are "-(s)asu" in terminal form but "miseru" is as Standard; "-te" form changes from "-sete" to "-shite", e.g. "mishite" for "misete", "sashite" for "sasete")

I would appreciate thoughts on incorporating such into the article.

--Julian Grybowski (talk) 13:23, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your notice. I wrote about these forms of verbs. --Kyoww (talk) 03:00, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Use of "nen" particle
I've attempted to better explain the use of "nen" in Kansai-ben through the use of a chart. Complicating matters are disagreements among my students and my older colleagues as to what is "correct" (generational divide) and my frame of reference, which is Osaka dialect and mainly female speakers. Input and corrections / clarifications below would be welcome before I try and put it on the main article page. --Julian Grybowski (talk) 04:20, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

 * The simple interrogative n? is also a change of no (ka)? and has a somewhat feminine variation non?. N and non are not only used as interrogative particle but also used as declarative particle (juntaijoshi); for example, Sō nan? Sō nan. ("Is it?" "Yes, it is."). Non is also used as a phrasal particle as well as no; for example, Kono pen dare non? Watashi non. ("Whose pen is this?" "It's mine.").--Kyoww (talk) 03:32, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Common Kansai-ben - "do"?
I saw the "do" prefix mentioned in the common word list - but isn't it standard dialect/standard slang? ドスケベ for example? 126.59.94.251 (talk) 15:07, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, do in ドスケベ is same as "do" prefix mentioned in the list. The "do" prefix was developed in Edo period Kansai-ben and introduced into Tokyo in the 20th century. See also this Japanese internet dictionary page.--Kyoww (talk) 07:03, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's interesting! But that means there's really just one usage of "do" that is exclusive to the Kansai dialect (while "do-mannaka" is (has become?) standard dialect), so I don't think it really should be included in that list. Not because it isn't Kansai dialect (which it obviously is), but because the divergence between the standard Japanese "do" and the dialectal "do" is too small to make it interesting enough to add to the list. 126.59.94.251 (talk) 14:25, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

yoroshuu gozansu ka?
If you've seen the movie "rabukon" maybe you remember the hilarious karaoke scene featuring the song of one (imaginary?) rapper called "umibouzu".

That song (that no one likes except for the two main characters, "risa" and "ootani") is called "yoroshuu gozansu ka?".

But what does the title mean? Is this some dialect for "yoroshuu gozaimasu ka?"?

Thanks.

Contact Basemetal   here  05:14, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, yoroshuu gozansu ka? is same to yoroshuu gozaimasu ka?. gozansu is a variety of gozaimasu used in Edo period and early Meiji period. See this page (Japanese) http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/78469/m0u/ --Kyoww (talk) 13:29, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

 * ありがとう ござんした！ :-) Contact Basemetal   here  13:45, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Jay Rubin ain't all that
For example, many English language adaptations of manga and anime use Southern American English as a counterpart of Kansai dialect, although Kansai dialect does not usually fit the "bumpkin" image as well as the Southern American English does

Jay Rubin, I'm looking at you.

You have made a dog's dinner out of translating Murakami's アイロンのある風景 using this trope. You even contradict yourself in the exact same section as Ibaraki folk are tarred with the same brush (ie, being "bumpkins"). I understand that you have to translate more than just individual words and sentences, but your attempt at translating 関西弁 here must be recorded as an abject failure, on all levels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.11.65.153 (talk) 01:02, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Counterintuitive transliterations
Virtually all instances of "ya" are given as "ja"; whatever the transliteration style used here (one with which I am unfamiliar), this is not a representation of the pronunciation that the layman, looking at this article, will be likely to apprehend. Perhaps alongside the no-doubt correct- but less-accessible to those who are not linguists- current transliteration system a general representation of how the word is pronounced ought to be provided? For example the section ""好きやねん" /sukija neN/ "I love you" becomes '好っきゃねん' /suQkja neN/" might incorporate in the first instance "suki ya nen" (spaced as preferred/ per consensus) and in the second "sukkya nen" (the latter doubling of the consonant is generally that used in English as far as I've seen to represent the glottal stop of っ in this context).

One reason for the above consideration being worthwhile is other sections- for example "The emphasis or tag question particle jan ka in the casual speech of Kanto changes to yan ka in Kansai. Yan ka has some variations, such as a masculine variation yan ke (in some areas, but yan ke is also used by women) and a shortened variation yan, just like jan in Kanto. Jan ka and jan are used only in informal speech, but yan ka and yan can be used with formal forms like sugoi desu yan! ("It is great!"). Youngsters often use yan naa, the combination of yan and naa for tag question."- drawing a clear distinction between the "j" and "y" sounds, which might generate confusion for the uninitiated reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.195.208 (talk) 04:12, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The IPA isn't transliteration, it's transcription. IPA notice added in the infobox, if that's any consolation. Nardog (talk) 04:19, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll defer to you on the point, but have to observe I haven't seen the IPA written in this form before; at any rate for my money it doesn't necessarily help the average article reader, but it's not a point I feel it necessary to persist in arguing, merely an impartial observation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.195.208 (talk) 18:03, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kansai dialect


text: User talk:80.47.218.254

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:80.47.218.254


text: User talk:71.113.238.184

title: User talk:71.113.238.184


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rami Nuri

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus to delete -- Francs2000 | Talk 02:35, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Rami Nuri
Not notable (50 hits) and/or vanity, and I'm tempted to suggest nonsense... Delete. Flowerparty talk 21:40, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm adding Gopal Das as well, this seems like a set of nonsense Eckankar-cruft created by User:Grizzmaster and enhanced by User:67.149.10.55. Delete for both of them. Klonimus 24.60.163.16 21:50, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep for both. This is one of those things where the Google test simply doesn't apply.  If he's a figure in a religion- Eckankar- then there's no more reason to delete this than to delete Xenu of Scientology.  Xenu is, by the way, a featured article.  CanadianCaesar 21:53, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I was worried that might be the response. I've removed Gopal Das, since it was not my intention to VfD both. Nonetheless I feel for Rami Nuri a redirect may be more useful than what's there now. Flowerparty talk 22:04, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Looking back on this I've made a severe misjudgement: I took Rami Nuri to be a person (hence my vanity accusation). I apologise and retract my previous vote. Keep. Flowerparty talk 00:42, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Nonsense Eckankar cruft. Klonimus 05:52, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep One of the major religious figures of the religion Eckankar.  A religion without it's major figures is worthless.  Think about Christianity without Jesus, or Judaism without Abraham. Werty8472 July, 24, 2005.
 * Delete advertising. JamesBurns 06:44, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Save If you would take the time to notice, there is no advertisement on the ECK master pages. Just because the religion page itself has external links is no reason to VfD everything related to it.
 * Last vote by 216.214.203.14 CanadianCaesar 22:02, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text: Category:Languages of Costa Rica

title: Category:Languages of Costa Rica


text:
Talk:Dave Kopel

Untitled
Should some of the content in the following article be included in the main content of this Wikipedia article on Kopel? http://www.progressive.org/news/2014/04/187663/times-has-finally-quietly-outed-nra-funded-%E2%80%9Cindependent%E2%80%9D-scholar 411GPG (talk) 14:51, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Kopel's list of F911's "56 deceits"
A member of a mailing list I am on directed our attention to Kopel's list just over a year ago. I was pretty disgusted with Kopel, when I read it, because I found his list itself highly deceitful.

I wrote to Kopel a civil email where I challenged him on several of his points. I sent a carbon to the Kopel fan who had told us about Kopel's list. Kopel didn't reply. Okay, he was a busy guy. But he didn't alter the site either.

I checked, regularly, for a month or so. The points I challenged Kopel remained on the list. Three of four months later they had quietly been dropped from the list. But there was no change log -- no list of the points he had tried to make that had been demonstrated to be false. Kopel made serious accusations against Moore. And when he was no longer prepared to stand behind them he should have acknowledged his errors. He didn't. I think he should have apologized. He didn't.

Whether the accuracy of Moore's film stands up to journalistic standards is not important when we discuss Kopel's accuracy. Kopel represents himself as a journalist. He represented his list as journalism. So I expect him measure up to the standards of journalism. He doesn't.

This is why I changed the wording of the article from "He is a leading critic of Michael Moore and documents extensively Moore's fabricated claims" to "He is a leading critic of Michael Moore and provided a list of what he characterized as Moore's "deceits"". -- Geo Swan 21:41, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, what were those deceits? '' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.183.109.9 (talk • contribs) 08:08, 2006 June 4

He/she will never tell you what were those deceits. '' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.61.176.163 (talk • contribs) 20:16, 2006 October 15

Why can't you just accept that Moore himself has admitted that his film was art, not factual, and that it wasn't very truthful? '' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.166.99.246 (talk • contribs) 22:06, 2006 October 19

What were Kopel's deceits?

 * My email to Kopel, circa Spring or Summer 2004 asked three questions about the deciets he was then number 53, 57a, 36.
 * In "Deceit 53", at that point claimed Moore lied about the number of Congressional children serving in Iraq. Kopel   claimed that Moore asserted only one Congressional child was serving in Iraq.  Wrong.  Moore said only one Congressperson had a child serving in the enlisted ranks in Iraq.  Kopel disproof included a bunch of officers, including USN officers safely floating on vessels in the Persian Gulf.  And he included a child of a Cabinet member -- when they aren't Congressmen.
 * In "Deceit 57", Kopel originally had one of his poinnts address the dispute over whether the movie was going to use the song, "Won't get fooled again." The story was complicated.  And Kopel got it completely backwards.  In Kopel's version the songwriter, Pete Townshend, or his agents, had approached Moore, and asked Moore to use the song, that Moore refused, and then lied about it.  That is completely backwards.  Moore asked for permission to use the song.  Townshend refused, because he didn't like Moore's earlier work.  Absolutely no one, except Kopel, claimed Moore lied about the use of the song in the film.  Kopel's claim that Moore lied, in this instance, seems to have been based on a lazy, careless, desperated search to twist every aspect of the film into a "deceit".
 * In "Deceit 36" Kopel claimed it was a deceit for Moore to assert that "Ashcroft lost to a dead guy". Although I am a Canadian I watch US public affairs shows, like "The McGlaughlin Group".  I had heard the joke "Ashcroft lost to a dead guy" at least a dozen times before Moore's film came out.  This is another instance of Kopel's desperate and intellectually dishonest attempt to distort the extent to which Moore's film falls short of honesty.

 * If Moore doesn't claim to have been working as a journalist in that film, but Kopel does claim to be practicing journalism with his 59 deceits, then Kopel has a higher standard he should try to meet.

 * In particular, if Kopel was intellectually honest, he would have had a change log, acknowledging when he made changes to the deceit list when it was brought to his attention that his list contained errors.

 * Two more instances of Kopels desperate and intellectually dishonest attempts to falsely present Moore as dishonest are his claim that Moore unfairly took Condaleeza Rice's comment out of context, and his claim that Moore was not really from Flint.

 * Kopel originally got his knickers in a twist claiming Moore quoted Condaleeza Rice out of context, in a way that distorted what she was saying, unfairly making her look inconsistent and ridiculous. The quote he took from her speech was on record.  I went to it -- waiting to see whether if Moore had supplied the full context it would have made her look any less ridiculous and inconsistent.  Nope.  When you read the full context of the quoted remark she doesn't look any less ridiculous and inconsistent.  In the rest of that paragraph she wanders around, restating several contradictions.  Around that time I heard a self-important Republican spin-doctor on PBS.  If you remember "Wag the Dog" he broke the rule that triggered the Robert Deniro character to have the Dustin Hoffman character -- the producer, whacked.  He bragged about his advice to Republicans.  His advice?  You can't mention 9-11 too often.  Every policy speech on the War on Iraq should start with a mention of 9-11, and should return to 9-11 as often as possible -- without regard to whether it really has anything to do with 9-11.  IMO Rice was following this advice.

 * Kopel quibbled whether Moore was really from Flint, when he really grew up in a town near Flint. I grew up in Toronto.  When I was born Toronto had a Metropolitan government, the city core, with a population of 500,000 had a local government, and neighbouring municipalities had their own municipal governments.  But there was a metropolitan government on top of that, that covered Police Services, Sewers, main roads, Transit.  The junior municipalities covered schools, local roads, and some other services.  So, I can tell people I was born in Toronto.  Or I could say I wass born in Etobicoke.  Further confusing matters Canada Post insisted we state we lived in Islington Ontario, a town that had been swallowed up decades earlier.  If I hadn't said I was from Toronto I would have confused everyone.  Flint, or Toronto, where someone might be able to say, I am from Harlem, or I am from Brooklyn, or I am from Manhattan, and hope the listener would understand what that meant.

 * You have heard the joke about the guy from an ethnic group where Mothers are portrayed as highly intrusive and overbearing? His mom gave him two shirts for his birthday.  And so the next time he went over to her place for dinner he made a point of wearing one of them.  When he gets to her place she looks at his shirt and exclaims -- ''"What!  You didn't like the other one?"

 * Let's be fair to Moore. What if Moore asserted he was from Davison Michigan, not Flint Michigan?  If critics are allowd to be that picky, they could just as easily have called it a deceit if Moore had said he was from Davison, not Flint.  If you use Mapblast, or similar, you can see that Davison is smaller than Flint, and they directly border one another.

 * Let's be fair to him, and only hold him to account for actual distortions -- not Kopel's invented ones. --  Geo Swan 16:42, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Dave Kopel


text:
Rawlings

Rawlings may refer to:

 * Rawlings (company), a U.S. sports equipment company
 * Rawlings, Maryland, an unincorporated community in Allegany County, Maryland
 * Rawlings (surname), including a list of people with the name

title: Rawlings


text: Template:WikiProject Wisconsin

title: Template:WikiProject Wisconsin


text:
IBM Parallel Sysplex

In computing, a Parallel Sysplex is a cluster of IBM mainframes acting together as a single system image with z/OS. Used for disaster recovery, Parallel Sysplex combines data sharing and parallel computing to allow a cluster of up to 32 systems to share a workload for high performance and high availability.

Sysplex
In 1990, IBM mainframe computers introduced the concept of a Systems Complex, commonly called a Sysplex, with MVS/ESA SPV4.1. This allows authorized components in up to eight logical partitions (LPARs) to communicate and cooperate with each other using the XCF protocol.

Components of a Sysplex include:
 * A common time source to synchronize all member systems' clocks. This can involve either a Sysplex timer (Model 9037), or the Server Time Protocol (STP)
 * Global Resource Serialization (GRS), which allows multiple systems to access the same resources concurrently, serializing where necessary to ensure exclusive access
 * Cross System Coupling Facility (XCF), which allows systems to communicate peer-to-peer
 * Couple Data Sets (CDS)

Users of a (base) Sysplex include:
 * Console services – allowing one to merge multiple MCS consoles from the different members of the Sysplex, providing a single system image for Operations
 * Automatic Restart Manager (ARM) – Policy to direct automatic restart of failed jobs or started tasks on the same system if it is available or on another LPAR in the Sysplex
 * Sysplex Failure Manager (SFM) – Policy that specifies automated actions to take when certain failures occur such as loss of a member of a Sysplex or when reconfiguring systems
 * Workload Manager (WLM) – Policy based performance management of heterogeneous workloads across one or more z/OS images or even on AIX
 * Global Resource Serialization (GRS) - Communication – allows use of XCF links instead of dedicated channels for GRS, and Dynamic RNLs
 * Tivoli OPC – Hot standby support for the controller
 * RACF (IBM's mainframe security software product) – Sysplex-wide RVARY and SETROPTS commands
 * PDSE file sharing
 * Multisystem VLFNOTE, SDUMP, SLIP, DAE
 * Resource Measurement Facility (RMF) – Sysplex-wide reporting
 * CICS – uses XCF to provide better performance and response time than using VTAM for transaction routing and function shipping.
 * zFS – Using XCF communication to access data across multiple LPARs

Parallel Sysplex
IBM introduced the Parallel Sysplex with the addition of the 9674 Coupling Facility (CF), new S/390 models,  upgrades to existing models, coupling links for high speed communication and MVS/ESA SP V5.1 operating system support, in April 1994.

The Coupling Facility (CF) may reside on a dedicated stand-alone server configured with processors that can run Coupling Facility control code (CFCC), as integral processors on the mainframes themselves configured as ICFs (Internal Coupling Facilities), or less common, as normal LPARs. The CF contains Lock, List, and Cache structures to help with serialization, message passing, and buffer consistency between multiple LPARs.

The primary goal of a Parallel Sysplex is to provide data sharing capabilities, allowing multiple databases for direct reads and writes to shared data. This can provide benefits of
 * Help remove single points of failure within the server, LPAR, or subsystems
 * Application Availability
 * Single System Image
 * Dynamic Session Balancing
 * Dynamic Transaction Routing
 * Scalable capacity

Databases running on the System z server that can take advantage of this include:
 * IBM Db2
 * IBM Information Management System (IMS).
 * VSAM (VSARM/RLS)
 * IDMS
 * Adabas
 * DataCom
 * Oracle

Other components can use the Coupling Facility to help with system management, performance, or reduced hardware requirements. Called “Resource Sharing”, uses include: Tape Switching uses the GRS structure to provide sharing of tape units between z/OS images.
 * Catalog – shared catalogs to improve performance by reducing I/O to a catalog data set on disk
 * CICS – Using the CF to provide sharing and recovery capabilities for named counters, data tables, or transient data
 * DFSMShsm – Workload balancing for data migration workload
 * GRS Star – Reduced CPU and response time performance for data set allocation.
 * Dynamic CHPID Management (DCM), and I/O priority management
 * JES2 Checkpoint – Provides improved access to a multisystem checkpoint
 * Operlog / Logrec – Merged multisystem logs for system management
 * RACF – shared data set to simplify security management across the Parallel Sysplex
 * WebSphere MQ – Shared message queues for availability and flexibility
 * WLM - provides support for Intelligent Resource Director (IRD) to extends the z/OS Workload Manager to help manage CPU and I/O resources across multiple LPARs within the Parallel Sysplex. Functions include LPAR CPU management, IRD.

Multi-system enclave management for improved performance
 * XCF Star – Reduced hardware requirements and simplified management of XCF communication paths

Major components of a Parallel Sysplex include: The Coupling Facility may be either a dedicated external system (a small mainframe, such as a System z9 BC, specially configured with only coupling facility processors) or integral processors on the mainframes themselves configured as ICFs (Internal Coupling Facilities). It is recommended that at least one external CF be used in a parallel sysplex. It is recommended that a Parallel Sysplex has at least two CFs and/or ICFs for redundancy, especially in a production data sharing environment. Server Time Protocol (STP) replaced the Sysplex Timers beginning in 2005 for System z mainframe models z990 and newer. A Sysplex Timer is a physically separate piece of hardware from the mainframe, whereas STP is an integral facility within the mainframe's microcode. With STP and ICFs it is possible to construct a complete Parallel Sysplex installation with two connected mainframes. Moreover, a single mainframe can contain the internal equivalent of a complete physical Parallel Sysplex, useful for application testing and development purposes.
 * Coupling Facility (CF or ICF) hardware, allowing multiple processors to share, cache, update, and balance data access;
 * Sysplex Timers (more recently, Server Time Protocol) to synchronize the clocks of all member systems;
 * High speed, high quality, redundant cabling;
 * Software (operating system services and, usually, middleware such as IBM Db2).

The IBM Systems Journal dedicated a full issue to all the technology components.

Server Time Protocol
Maintaining accurate time is important in computer systems. For example, in a transaction-processing system the recovery process reconstructs the transaction data from log files. If time stamps are used for transaction-data logging, and the time stamps of two related transactions are transposed from the actual sequence, then the reconstruction of the transaction database may not match the state before the recovery process. Server Time Protocol (STP) can be used to provide a single time source between multiple servers. Based on Network Time Protocol concepts, one of the System z servers is designated by the HMC as the primary time source (Stratum 1). It then sends timing signals to the Stratum 2 servers through use of coupling links. The Stratum 2 servers in turn send timing signals to the Stratum 3 servers. To provide availability, one of the servers can be designated as a backup time source, and a third server can be designated as an Arbiter to assist the Backup Time Server in determining if it should take the role of the Primary during exception conditions.

STP has been available on System z servers since 2005.

More information on STP is available in “Server Time Protocol Planning Guide”.

Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex
Geographically Dispersed Parallel Sysplex (GDPS) is an extension of Parallel Sysplex of mainframes located, potentially, in different cities. GDPS includes configurations for single site or multiple site configurations:
 * GDPS HyperSwap Manager: This is based on synchronous Peer to Peer Remote Copy (PPRC) technology for use within a single data center. Data is copied from the primary storage device to a secondary storage device.  In the event of a failure on the primary storage device, the system automatically makes the secondary storage device the primary, usually without disrupting running applications.
 * GDPS Metro: This is based on synchronous data mirroring technology (PPRC) that can be used on mainframes 200 km apart. In a two-system model, both sites can be administered as if they were one system.  In the event of a failure of a system or storage device, recovery can occur automatically, with limited or no data loss.
 * GDPS Global - XRC: This is based on asynchronous Extended Remote Copy (XRC) technology with no restrictions on distance. XRC copies data on storage devices between two sites such that only a few seconds of data may be lost in the event of a failure.  If a failure does occur, a user must initiate the recovery process.  Once initiated, the process is automatic in recovering from secondary storage devices and reconfiguring systems.
 * GDPS Global - GM: This is based on asynchronous IBM Global Mirror technology with no restrictions on distance. It is designed for recovery from a total failure at one site.  It will activate secondary storage devices and backup systems.
 * GDPS Metro Global - GM: This is a configuration for systems with more than two systems/sites, for purposes of disaster recovery. It is based on GDPS Metro together with GDPS Global - GM.
 * GDPS Metro Global - XRC: This is a configuration for systems with more than two systems/sites for purposes of disaster recovery. It is based on GDPS Metro together with GDPS Global - XRC.
 * GDPS Continuous Availability: This is a disaster recovery / continuous availability solution, based on two or more sites, separated by unlimited distances, running the same applications and having the same data to provide cross-site workload balancing. IBM Multi-site Workload Lifeline, through its monitoring and workload routing, plays an integral role in the GDPS Continuous Availability solution.

title: IBM Parallel Sysplex


text:
Talk:Cloudmakers

Pointless - Delete

title: Talk:Cloudmakers


text:
Category:Languages of Panama

Articles on languages of Panama.

title: Category:Languages of Panama


text:
Konstantin Tih

Konstantin Tih (Константин Тих Асен) or Constantine I Tikh (Константин I), was the tsar of Bulgaria from 1257 to 1277, he was offered the throne from Mitso Asen. He led the Bulgarian Empire at a time when the nearby Byzantine Empire disintegrated into rump states. To strengthen his position, he forged an alliance with one of the rump state—Nicaea—by marrying Irene, a daughter of Theodore II of the prominent Laskaris family.

Early in his reign, his army invaded Severin, Hungary which outraged Béla IV; this led Hungarian troops to capture Vidin, an important town of the Bulgarian Empire and also saw the Hungarians besieging the Lower Danube region, leaving northwestern Bulgaria to Rostislav Mikhailovich (Béla's son-in-law), who had claimed Bulgaria in the years prior.

When Michael VIII took over the throne of the Byzantine Empire (which led Konstantin to go to war with them in the 1260s) this saw Bulgaria losing significant territories to its two principal enemies, the Byzantines and Hungary. Later, when Tatars began attacking the Byzantines, Konstantin joined them in a unified attack but this failed to capture Michael VIII.

After Stephen emerged victorious in the Hungarian civil war, he began attacking Bulgaria again and defeated Konstantin's army. He plundered Tarnovo and captured fortresses on the Danube in the mid to late 1260s. Later, Konstantin suffered an injury and was paralysed from the waist down. The paralysed Konstantin failed in preventing the Nogai Horde from plundering Bulgaria. Further worsening his situation, the latter part of his reign saw economic instability and his failed suppressing of a revolt ended his life.

Early life
Konstantin Tih was a wealthy Bulgarian boyar (or nobleman) whose estates were located in the region of Sofia or Skopje. Konstantin stated in his charter to the Saint George Monastery near Skopje that Stefan Nemanja of Serbia was his grandfather. The Byzantine historian, George Pachymeres, described him as a "half-Serbian". He could have been related to the Serbian royal house through either his mother or father. If he was a patrilinear relative of Nemanja, his father, Tih, may have been the son of Nemanja's brother, Tihomir, according to historian Srdjan Pirivatrić. Pirivatrić and other scholars also say, Konstantin may have been a son or a nephew of the Bulgarian boyar John Tihomir, who controlled Skopje in the late 12th century. If Konstantin was related to the Serbian royal house through his mother, a daughter or a niece of Nemanja must have been his mother.

Ascension
Konstantin Tih mounted the Bulgarian throne after the death of Michael II Asen, but the circumstances of his ascension are obscure. Michael Asen was murdered by his cousin, Kaliman in late 1256 or early 1257. Before long, Kaliman was also killed, and the male line of the Asen dynasty died out.

Rostislav Mikhailovich, Duke of Macsó (who was Michael and Kaliman's father-in-law), and the boyar Mitso (who was Michael's brother-in-law), laid claim to Bulgaria. Rostislav captured Vidin, Mitso held sway over southeastern Bulgaria, but none of them could secure the support of the boyars who controlled Tarnovo. The latter offered the throne to Konstantin who accepted the election.

Konstantin divorced his first wife (whose name is unknown), and married Irene Doukaina Laskarina in 1258. Irene was the daughter of Theodore II, Emperor of Nicaea, and Elena of Bulgaria, a daughter of Ivan Asen II of Bulgaria. The marriage with a descendant of the Bulgarian royal family strengthened his position. He was thereafter called Konstantin Asen. The marriage also forged an alliance between Bulgaria and Nicaea, which was confirmed one or two years later, when the Byzantine historian and official George Akropolites came to Tarnovo.

Conflict with Hungary
Rostislav Mikhailovich invaded Bulgaria with Hungarian assistance in 1259. In the following year, Rostislav left his duchy to join the campaign of his father-in-law, Béla IV of Hungary, against Bohemia. Taking advantage of Rostislav's absence, Konstantin broke into his realm and reoccupied Vidin. He also sent an army to attack the Banate of Severin, but the Hungarian commander, Lawrence, fought the invaders off.

The Bulgarian invasion of Severin outraged Béla IV. Soon after he concluded a peace treaty with Ottokar II of Bohemia in March 1261, Hungarian troops stormed into Bulgaria under the command of Béla IV's son and heir, Stephen. They captured Vidin and besieged Lom on the Lower Danube, but they were unable to bring Konstantin to a pitched battle, because he withdrew to Tarnovo. The Hungarian army left Bulgaria before the end of the year, but the campaign restored northwestern Bulgaria to Rostislav.

War with the Byzantine Empire

Konstantin's minor brother-in-law, John IV Laskaris, was dethroned and blinded by his former guardian and co-ruler, Michael VIII Palaiologos, before the end of 1261. Michael VIII's army had occupied Constantinople already in July, thus the coup made him the sole ruler of the restored Byzantine Empire. The rebirth of the empire changed the traditional relations between the powers of the Balkan Peninsula. Furthermore, Konstantine's wife decided to take vengeance of her brother's mutilation and persuaded Konstantine to turn against Michael.

Mitso, who still held southeastern Bulgaria, made an alliance with the Byzantines, but another powerful nobleman, Jacob Svetoslav, who had taken control of the southwestern region, was loyal to Konstantine. Benefiting from a war between the Byzantine Empire, the Republic of Venice, Achaea and Epirus, Konstantine invaded Thrace and captured Stanimaka and Philippopolis (now Asenovgrad and Plovdiv in Bulgaria) in the autumn of 1262. Mitso was also forced to flee to Mesembria (now Nesebar in Bulgaria). After Konstantine laid siege to the town, Mitso sought assistance from the Byzantines, offering to surrender Mesembria to them in exchange for landed property in the Byzantine Empire. Michael VIII accepted the offer and sent Michael Glabas Tarchaneiotes to help Mitso in 1263.

A second Byzantine army stormed into Thrace and recaptured Stanimaka and Philippopolis. After seizing Mesembria from Mitso, Glabas Tarchaneiotes continued his campaign along the Black Sea and occupied Agathopolis, Sozopolis and Anchialos (now Ahtopol, Sozopol and Pomorie in Bulgaria). Meanwhile, the Byzantine fleet took control of Vicina and other ports at the Danube Delta. Glabas Tarchaneiotes attacked Jacob Svetoslav who could only resist with Hungarian assistance, thus he accepted Béla IV's suzerainty.

As a consequence of the war with the Byzantines, by the end of 1263, Bulgaria lost significant territories to its two principal enemies, the Byzantine Empire and Hungary. Konstantin could only seek assistance from the Tatars of the Golden Horde to put an end to his isolation. The Tatar khans had been the overlords of the Bulgarian monarchs for almost two decades, although their rule was only formal. A former Sultan of Rum, Kaykaus II, who had been imprisoned at Michael VIII's order, also wanted to regain his throne with the Tatars' help. One of his uncles was a prominent leader of the Golden Horde and he sent messages to him to persuade the Tatars to invade the Byzantine Empire with Bulgarian assistance. According to the Byzantine historian, Nicephorus Gregoras, Kaykaus also approached Konstantin, offering much money to him if he came to release him.

Thousands of Tatars crossed the frozen Lower Danube to invade the Byzantine Empire in late 1264. Konstantin soon joined them, although he had fallen from a horse and broken his leg. The united Tatar and Bulgarian armies launched a sudden attack against Michael VIII who was returning from Thessaly to Constantinople, but they could not capture the emperor. Konstantin laid siege the Byzantine fortress of Ainos (now Enez in Turkey), forcing the defenders to surrender. The Byzantines also agreed to release Kaykaus (who soon left for the Golden Horde), but his family was kept imprisoned even thereafter.

Disintegration
Konstantine's alliance with the Tatars strengthened his position. Jacob Svetoslav again accepted his suzerainty. Taking advantage of a civil war in Hungary, Jacob Svetoslav also invaded the Banate of Severin. The Hungarian civil war ended with the division of the country between Béla IV and Stephen in March 1266. Stephen launched a military campaign against Bulgaria and captured Vidin in June. Konstantin tried to resist, but the Hungarians defeated his army and plundered the region of Tarnovo. The Hungarians captured Pleven and other fortresses on the Danube and forced Jacob Svetoslav to again do homage to Stephen. Thereafter Jacob Svetoslav was styled as "emperor of Bulgaria" in the Hungarian royal charters.

Charles I of Anjou and Baldwin II, the dispossessed Latin emperor of Constantinople, made an alliance against the Byzantine Empire in 1267. To prevent Bulgaria from joining the anti-Byzantine coalition, Michael VIII offered his niece, Maria Palaiologina Kantakouzene, to the widowed Konstantin in 1268. The emperor also pledged that he would return Mesembria and Anchialos to Bulgaria as her dowry if she gave birth to a son. Konstantin married Maria, but Michael VIII broke his promise and did not renounce the two towns after the birth of Konstantin and Maria's son, Michael. Outraged by the emperor's betrayal, Konstantin sent envoys to Charles to Naples in September 1271. The negotiations continued during the following years, showing that Konstantin was willing to support Charles against the Byzantines.

Konstantin broke into Thrace in 1271 or 1272, but Michael VIII persuaded Nogai, the dominant figure in the westernmost territory of the Golden Horde, to invade Bulgaria. The Tatars plundered the country, forcing Konstantin to return and abandon his claim to the two towns. Nogai set up his capital in Isaccea near the Danube Delta, thus he could easily attack Bulgaria.

Konstantin had been seriously injured after a riding accident and could not move without assistance, because he was paralyzed from the waist down. His ambitious wife took control of the government. After Michael VIII's envoys accepted Pope Gregory X's proposal to a church union at the Second Council of Lyon in summer 1274, she became one of the leading opponents of the union. She even tried to persuade Baibars, the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, to attack the Byzantine Empire. Maria was also determined to secure the throne to her son. Jacob Svetoslav, however, had a strong claim to succeed Konstantin, because his wife was a granddaughter of Ivan Asen II of Bulgaria. Maria first adopted Jacob Svetoslav to persuade him to acknowledge her son's right to the throne, but later she had him poisoned. He also had other noblemen captured or executed, which made Konstantin's rule unpopular.

The paralyzed Konstantin could not prevent Nogai's Tatars from making regular plundering raids against Bulgaria. The local inhabitants of the regions which were most exposed to the Tatar raids had to organize the defense without the monarch's support.

Due to the expensive and unsuccessful wars, repeated Mongol raids, and economic instability (Constantine was the first Bulgarian ruler to mint his own coins on a vast scale), the government was faced with a revolt in 1277. The social and economic aspects of this movement have been stressed by Marxist historians, but its true character is elusive. What is clear is that a swineherd or swine-owner named Ivaylo became a leader of the discontented and attracted many (presumably mostly lower-class) followers, asserting his control over a significant area. Konstantine set out against Ivaylo with his guard, but was decisively defeated and slain in his chariot.

Family
Constantine I was married three times. The names of his first wife and children are unknown. By his second wife, Irene of Nicaea, Constantine had no children. By his third wife, Maria Kantakouzene, he had Michael, who succeeded as co-emperor of Bulgaria 1277–1279.

title: Konstantin Tih


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Langer

Langer is a surname originally of German origin. For the etymology, meaning, and pronunciation of the name, and for the Hiberno-English slang word, see Wiktionary.

People with the family name Langer include:

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title: Langer


text:
USS Henderson

USS Henderson may refer to the following ships of the United States Navy:

 * USS Henderson (AP-1), a transport, commissioned in 1917. In 1943, she was converted to a hospital ship and commissioned as USS Bountiful (AH-9).
 * USS Henderson (DD-785), a destroyer, commissioned in 1946 and struck in 1980.

title: USS Henderson


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Rebecca Wheatley

Rebecca Catherine Anne Wheatley (born 25 April 1965) is a British actress and musician.

Wheatley grew up in Teddington, Middlesex, where she went to St Catherine's convent school, before gaining her BA in English literature from the University of Wales, Lampeter.

She sang in “In the Smoke”, S5:E7 of Pie in the Sky (1997). Wheatley is best known as Amy Howard, the receptionist in the BBC's Casualty drama, a role which she played for four years from September 1997 until March 2001. She was a regular panellist on Loose Women in 2002.

Although Wheatley originally trained as a classical singer, she has become well known for various types of popular music. She has sung in many of the cabaret venues in the West End of London, including The Café Royal, The Ritz and The Savoy. She has also sung at the Grand Opera House in Belfast in televised performances for BBC Northern Ireland, and at the Royal Albert Hall for The TV Times  'Christmas Carols with the Stars'  event.

She played the character of Miss Sherman, the strict English teacher, in the West End musical, Fame and Julie Johnson in the West End production of Bad Girls: The Musical.

While in Casualty, she recorded two Top 10 singles; "Everlasting Love" with the Casualty cast, and "Stay With Me (Baby)" solo, as well as a solo album, Time Stands Still.

On 4 December 2007, she was a guest on The Paul O'Grady Show where she talked about her 12.5 stone (175 lb) weight loss after following the Slimming World plan, to coincide with the release of her weight-loss DVD.

She is a supporter of international gay rights and The Kaleidoscope Trust.

title: Rebecca Wheatley