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David Young (wrestler)

David Williams (born August 25, 1972), better known by his ring name, David Young, is an American professional wrestler. Though he has mainly appeared with NWA Wildside and Total Nonstop Action Wrestling, Young has also competed for Ring of Honor, AAA and ZERO-ONE.

Professional wrestling career
Williams was a professional wrestling fan from an early age, and announced his intention to become a wrestler to his parents at the age of five. On August 17, 1989 a seventeen-year-old Williams attended a wrestling show at which his friend was working as a security guard, and was asked to wrestle. He began training the next day with the Dalton, Georgia-based Mountain Wrestling Federation under Larry Santo, and adopted the ring name "David Young".

NWA Wildside (1999–2002)
Young, dubbed "the Messiah of the Spinebuster", spent his early career in National Championship Wrestling as a singles wrestler before joining the team Body Count with "Heavy Metal" Ric Savage. Young and Savage feuded with Rusty Riddle and Kid Kash for the National Championship Wrestling world tag-team titles. Young stayed with NCW as it grew into NWA Wildside where Young became known as a tag team specialist, teaming with Shane Austin as "The Sex Pistols". On August 19, 1999 The Sex Pistols defeated Bart Sawyer and Terry Lawler in Loganville, Georgia for the NWA Wildside (Georgia) Tag Team Championship. On November 4, Austin was replaced by Rick Michaels, with Young and Michaels naming themselves Bad Attitude. On November 20, 1999 in Cornelia, Georgia, Young and Michaels lost the Tag Team Championships to The Road Hoggs (Joe Harley and Pan Head Nelson). Bad Attitude continued to pursue the Wildside Tag Team Championships, and on January 11, 2000 they defeated The Underdogs (Mark E. Mark and Big Eddie Cool) for the NWA Wildside Tag Team Championship, which they held until February 19, when they were defeated by The Rock 'n' Roll Express. Bad Attitude reclaimed the Tag Team Titles on June 17 in a two out of three falls match, making Young a three time NWA Wildside Tag Team Champion.

Bad Attitude set their sights on the World Tag Team Championship, and on August 15 in Tampa, Florida they defeated Curtis Thompson and Jeff Justice for the NWA World Tag Team Championship. As a result, they were stripped of the Wildside Tag Team Championship on August 19. They held the World Tag Team Championship until February 3, 2001, when they lost to Joey Matthews and Christian York in Nashville, Tennessee. Bad Attitude reclaimed the title in their home territory, Cornelia, on February 17, but soon lost them once more, losing to Dan Factor and David Flair on March 22 in Athens, Georgia. They took the title a third time the next day in Toccoa, Georgia, with what would be their final reign lasting until April 24, when they lost to The New Heavenly Bodies (Casanova Chris and Vivacious Vito) in Tampa.

Michaels and Young eventually parted ways in a somewhat acrimonious split, and Michaels went on to win the NWA Wildside (Georgia) Heavyweight Championship. During a December 22, 2001 title defense against AJ Styles, Young interfered, enabling Styles to pin Michaels and win the belt. This led to a three-way dance on March 23, 2002 at Hardcore Hell 2002, with Young eventually taking the win and becoming the Wildside Heavyweight Champion. He held the title until June 1, when he lost to Jason Cross. After Cross retired from wrestling, Adam Jacobs won the vacant title, but failed to appear for an August 3 title defence against John Phoenix. Young, a Wildside mainstay, was substituted into the match, and defeated Phoenix to become a two-time Wildside Heavyweight Championship. He held the belt until September 22, 2002 when he lost to Edward Chastaine "Iceberg".

Total Nonstop Action Wrestling (2002–2007)
David Young joined Total Nonstop Action Wrestling in June 2002, and wrestled a dark match against Apolo on June 19. He worked in TNA as a lower-card heel. On September 24, 2003, Young acted as the tag team partner of Simon Diamond when Diamond's usual partner, Johnny Swinger, was sidelined with appendicitis. The next week, Young assumed that he was now a member of Glenn Gilbertti's stable, the New York Connection (NYC), along with Diamond and Swinger, but Gilberti insisted that he first had to "prove himself" by defeating The Sandman. Young lost, and was subsequently beaten down by Gilberti and his clients. The following week, Young earned a spot in the group by helping them defeat the 3 Live Kru in a six-man tag match.

The stable began to fall apart, and on January 14, 2004 split into two tag teams; Gilberti and Young, and Simon and Swinger. Gilberti and Young went on to feud with the Insane Clown Posse, with Young claiming to be afraid of clowns. Young then began regularly losing his matches, with his losing streak leading Gilberti to turn on him. On August 11, Young finally broke his losing streak by pinning Gilberti in a "Final Gut Check match", then left TNA for several months. He returned on December 24, losing to Abyss. Young appeared sporadically with TNA for several months, and on July 17 at No Surrender 2005 he reforged his alliance with Simon Diamond, who offered to make him "a diamond in the rough". On February 22, 2007, TNA released David Young.

At Slammiversary, on June 19, 2022, Young made an unannounced appearance as a participant in the Reverse Battle Royal, which he failed to win as he was eliminated by Johnny Swinger.

Georgia Championship Wrestling (2004–2008)
Young joined Georgia Championship Wrestling in mid-2004, forming a tag team with Sonny Siaki. Young and Siaki became the first ever GCW Tag Team Champions on July 27, 2004 in Columbus, Georgia when they defeated John Bogey and Jason Cross. They held the title until October 30, when they lost to A.J. Steele and Bull Buchanan.

Young formed a stable known as "Bad Company" with Bull Buchanan, The Wrestler (Ted Allen), and Sonny Siaki. However, on March 5, 2005 Buchanan and Young turned on Siaki and accepted the managerial services of Greg Brown. Young then went on to win the GCW Heavyweight Championship from Siaki, and on April 23 he and Buchanan won the GCW Tag Team Championship in a three-way tag match. On June 11, Buchanan teamed with Chris Stevens, the latter of whom replaced Young due to Young being unavailable for the title defense, and Buchanan and Stevens lost the GCW Tag Team Championship to John Bogie and Lee Thomas. Upon returning, Young teamed with Stevens to regain the titles on June 25.

Young lost the GCW Heavyweight Championship to Erik Watts on August 13, 2005. In October 2005, the promotion was renamed Great Championship Wrestling. On December 11, 2005, Young regained the GCW Heavyweight Championship from Watts. On January 1, 2006, Young and Stevens lost the GCW Tag Team Championships to Watts and Bogie. On April 22, 2006, Young lost the GCW Heavyweight Championship to Deathrow.

Young also appeared at Georgia Wrestling Promotions teaming with Bill DeMott to take on a hometown team in the main event. The following week he appeared again with DeMott as they went on to lose against Tank and Iceberg the main event.

Young continued to work for the company during its transition into "Great Championship Wrestling", and was featured on top in major feuds with Sonny Siaki and Johnny Swinger. After a bitter rivalry that lasted for three months with Siaki, the two were slated to battle on September 4 at the 2008 Fred Ward Memorial. However, on August 22, 2008, Great Championship Wrestling severed ties with Young, ending a long-standing business relationship.

Personal life
David has 2 daughters, Amber and Kristina, and a son, Chris. The Williams family lives in Chatsworth, Georgia.

Championships and accomplishments
Ericules Wrestling Promotions
 * EWP Heavyweight Championship (1 Time)

Great Championship Wrestling
 * GCW Heavyweight Championship (2 times)
 * GCW Columbus Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
 * GCW Tag Team Championship (5 times) – with Sonny Siaki (1), Bull Buchanan (1), Chris Stevens (2), and Elix Skipper (1)
 * Hardkore Championship Wrestling
 * HCW Hardcore Championship (1 time)
 * National Championship Wrestling
 * NCW Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Rick Michaels
 * National Wrestling Alliance
 * NWA World Tag Team Championship (3 times) – with Rick Michaels
 * NWA Smoky Mountain Tag Team Championship (1 time, current) – with Sigmon
 * NWA Southern Television Championship (1 time)
 * NWA Wildside Heavyweight Championship (2 times)
 * NWA Wildside Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with Shane Young (1) and Rick Michaels (1)
 * NWA Worldwide
 * NWA Worldwide Television Championship (1 time)
 * NWA Wrestle Birmingham Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Elix Skipper
 * Pro Wrestling Illustrated
 * PWI ranked him #372 of the top 500 singles wrestlers in the PWI 500 in 2009
 * Ultra Championship Wrestling-Zero
 * UCW-Zero Heavyweight Championship (1 time)

title: David Young (wrestler)


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Tony Harris (journalist)

Tony Harris (born July 25, 1967) is an American journalist, news anchor, and television producer. He was notable for his time as an anchor on Al Jazeera English, Al Jazeera America, and CNN.

Early life and education
Harris is a native of Baltimore, Maryland and graduated from Franklin High School in nearby Reisterstown in 1985. He went on to earn a BA degree from the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.

Radio
Harris began his career in broadcasting as radio disc jockey in his native Baltimore, Maryland on WSID-AM after dropping out of Towson State University. He later worked for sister stations WLPL in Baltimore and WOOK in Washington, DC. He continued in radio moving to WJMO in Cleveland, where he was host of a morning talk show at age 21.

Local television
Two years later, in 1983, Harris was hired by WJW-TV, then the CBS affiliate in Cleveland, as a reporter for its "PM Magazine" show. He spent 10 year at WJW as co-host of the magazine and as a general assignment news reporter before leaving to join "Entertainment Tonight" where he worked until 1990.

Harris was a weekend news anchor in Cleveland, Ohio at WKYC (Channel 3) from 1990 to 1993. During that time he won a local Emmy Award.

In 1993, Harris left Cleveland to join the original reporting team behind the Fox Network's prime time newsmagazine Front Page.

He returned to local news in 1996 as lead anchor for WBFF's "News at 10" in Baltimore. and then for WGCL-TV in Atlanta, Georgia, before joining CNN in September 2004.

CNN
Based at CNN Center in Atlanta, Harris co-anchored CNN Saturday Morning and CNN Sunday Morning with Betty Nguyen until he made the move to anchor CNN Newsroom on September 8, 2008. He was also a frequent substitute anchor on weekday news programs including American Morning. . While at CNN, Harris was a member of the teams that earned George Foster Peabody Awards for coverage of the British Petroleum oil spill and Hurricane Katrina, and an Alfred I. duPont Award for coverage of the Southeast Asia tsunami.

Harris left CNN at the end of December 2010.

Al Jazeera
In April 2011, He debuted as an anchor on Al Jazeera English. His first broadcast was at 16:00 GMT on April 12, 2011. His first broadcast was the first regularly scheduled program ever on the network with the news at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

Special projects
Harris began working with the Investigation Discovery Channel in 2015 for a project with the Southern Poverty Law Center. The first project was a special report called "Hate in America." The program, which aired on May 21, 2016, focused on an effort by anti-government groups and white supremacists to turn Montana's Flathead Valley, near Glacier National Park, into a whites-only refuge.

Harris joined the Discovery Channel in 2017 as a host of a six-part "Investigation Discovery" series titled Scene of the Crime with Tony Harris. The format of the program featured Harris exploring how small towns in America dealt with instances of crime and violence.

In 2020, Harris began hosting the podcast Monster: DC Sniper.

In January 2021, he began hosting a program called "The Proof is Out There" which aired Tuesdays at 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time on the History Channel. The series profiles unexplained news stories from around the world, such as UFOs and unidentified creatures.

Personal life
Harris and his wife, Amanda, have one son, Michael, born in 1995.

References in popular culture
After Harris criticized NASA for naming the new space station treadmill after comedian Stephen Colbert, Colbert responded on September 30, 2009, by naming his in-studio toilet the H.A.R.R.I.S. (Human Ass Receiving Receptacle In Studio).

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Tony Harris (journalist)


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Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/Early/double redirect study

Double redirects are an annoying and reoccurring problem that is only going to get worse over time if left in its current state. This study is to recognize the possible solutions to this problem and come up with a list of their pros and cons. Community involvement is highly encouraged.

The current solutions identified are:

Scan and fix
The current method of controlling double redirects involves scanning the entire Wikipedia and either generating reports for human cleanup or automated bot work. Currently Timwi has a bot which can do this, wpfsck can detect double redirects, and there are various SQL methods that can do this. The reports are easy to generate and the fixes are easy to apply. However the solution is overall incomplete. There are two steps to the generation of a double redirect: a page links to a redirect first and then the linked page is changed into a redirect. This happens casually as there is no warning to the user.

The existing method will eventually fix the double redirects (on the frequency of the database dump) but leaves the situation ready to happen again. The next step is to proactively convert links to the redirected pages. This is also easy to accomplish with a bot but will likely amass a significant amount of edits (a proof of concept report is in the plans). With this proactive step the double redirect situation is much less probable. Overall the database will be in a more consistent (perhaps better?) state and users will see far less double redirects during their browsing.

Enforce during edit
The MediaWiki software could enforce the very real (but currently not enforced) double redirect rule. Currently from a database consistency standpoint MediaWiki does the worst possible thing: fail silently. It is a minimal failure but it produces an inconsistent user experience with little opportunity for feedback to the user doing the editing. In this situation the problem is unlikely to be solved. However it can be argued that this creates a lower barrier to entry for newbies.

If the software produced an error to the user (making it impossible to create a double redirect) with a clear explanation of why the action is denied it may be possible to educate them and keep the data consistent at the same time. It is also possible that MediaWiki could silently update double-redirects as it encounters them (it is pragmatically a simple problem). BD2412 has noted that this should also apply to page moves; I have a feeling this is what generates the majority of double redirects.

The possible user interface changes could go as follows: When a user attempts to perform a double redirect they receive a message saying (in some kind of friendly words) they are not able to link there. The software could then offer a suggestion as to where the link should be, the user clicks ok, and MediaWiki updates the link for them.

Warn and scan
This compromise requires continuation of the "scan and edit" cleanup, but encourages people to clean up their own messes. This reduces the lifespan of the average double redirect and the amount of work that dedicated cleanup volunteers need to do. However, it has the benefit of allowing new editors to continue with their work, even if they make a mistake.


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User talk:JJLatWiki

Welcome!
Hello, JJLatWiki, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions; I hope you like it here and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

 * If you haven't already, drop by the new user log and tell others a bit about yourself.
 * Always sign your posts on talk pages with  so others will know who left which comments.
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * Our policies, guidelines, and simplified ruleset
 * How to edit a page and write a great article
 * The Wikipedia tutorial and picture tutorial
 * The handy Manual of Style
 * And finally, remember to be bold in updating pages!

I hope you enjoy editing and being a Wikipedian. Although we all make mistakes, please keep in mind what Wikipedia is not. If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to see the help pages or add a question to the village pump. The Community Portal can also be very useful.

Happy editing!

-- Sango  123  22:41, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you need help with anything or simply wish to say hello. :)

PRT picture
Hi,

Welcome to wikipedia. The picture on the PRT page was a good idea. I was wondering if you could "upload new pictures" - overwriting the current one, if you are updating a picture. Pictures have history in the same way articles do, and its much easier to keep track of one page with one history, rather than 2, 3, or more pages. I'll tell this to skybum too. Happy editing. Fresheneesz 05:54, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Red name
If you write something in your user page, your name link will turn blue, and everyone will know you are a serious Wikipedian. Stephen B Streater 22:21, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the advice. One day, maybe I'll follow it.  At the moment, I don't consider myself a "serious Wikipedian" and I don't respect someone's entries more based on the content of their user page, or lack thereof.  If someone doubts the veracity of my contribution because my user page is blank, maybe they'll do more research to confirm it themselves.  It would be much worse if someone accepts information as more credible because the contributor's user page is well appointed.--JJLatWiki 02:43, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

UniModal
Hi, you probably have no idea that UniModal was a controversial page, and was deleted (I think unfairly) a while back. It now is its own real page, and I would greatly appreciate your help with it. An administrator with an adgenda JzG is trying to delete much of the pages verified content, without discussion. I would be very thankful if you could help make this into a civil discussion rather than a battle. Thanks! Fresheneesz 23:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Admin Noticeboard incident
JzG has posted a note about my recent personal attack (as he calls it). You have been recently involved in the debate so I thought I'd let you know in case you wish to respond. A Transportation Enthusiast 16:46, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

VMFA-314
Just wanted to say welcome and good job on your additions to the VMFA-314 page. It is really shaping up. Not sure if your interests lie just with this unit or with the USMC in general but we are always looking for editors to help us out over at the USMC Portal. I am sure that you have seen it by this point but if able we ask you to help out where you can. Again, welcome, and if you ever need anything just drop me a line.--Looper5920 21:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks Looper5920. I do have a particular interest in 314.  I also have a particular interest in F-18's and broader interests in the USMC and aviation technology.  I've looked at the amazing USMC Portal and will try make a point of contributing there.  Thanks again for the hospitality.  --JJLatWiki 14:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Stephen B Streater
FYI: Stephen has just been nominated for adminship, should you wish to register your vote. Actually, it might even be too early to vote (he hasn't even accepted nomination yet) but if you're interested, keep an eye on it for the next few days.A Transportation Enthusiast 18:47, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Mock Attack and Saegheh Missile
User JJLatWiki, I expect an explantion about the reverts of modifications I have made to the article on the Saegheh (warplane). I removed the term "Mock", for the simple reason that this aircraft actually fired ordnance in a training excerise(unguided rockets), and can clearly be seen in the article's video. It is better described as a "practice exercise", than a "mock" one. I also require a source that shows the existance of a "surface to surface" missile known as the Saegheh missile/rocket. I am also becoming concerned about what appears to be a form of online harassment, on your part. This will not be tolerated. I have tried to be civil with you, but you must either respond likewise, or else I will assume you have an agenda that relates to reveting any and all articles I either create or modify, simply on principle. That is not exceptable. Technajunky 21:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

 * User Technajunky, I have no such agenda. First, from your first change of the term, "mock", it seemed like you took personal offense to that particular term.  You first changed it without citation, even though the citation I provided specifically uses the term, "mock".  Then, three days later you found a respected source for an alternative to "mock" and so changed the term and included the citation.  It seems entirely possible that your citation and my citation are refering to separate events, one that used live ordnance in a practice bombing and one that used none or practice ordnance for a press demonstration.  I don't know the chronology, so since the sources reported "bombing virtual targets" and "mock bombing", it seems appropriate to include both phrases and citations.

 * We already have been through this. Go read the article's dicussion. Technajunky 00:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Second, as far as the surface-to-surface Saegheh missile... as I noted in the log where I removed the tag, I have added numerous citations describing a surface-to-surface missile named Saegheh.  I have found that there are now a multitude of weapon systems that are being disputed online that may use "Saegheh" in their name: a surface-to-surface missile, air defense missile, UAV guided bomb, at least one, but maybe more, warplane, and maybe even a sub-to-surface missile.  I only insert systems into the actual article that I had the most confidence that I was correctly interpretting the source.

 * Yes, the sources you added AFTER I brought the issue up. Thats pretty fresh. Technajunky 00:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Since I see that you have reverted my last changes, I assume that you did not read my note in the change log where I removed the missile system tag and you have not followed the wiki link to the missile system to read the numerous citations there.

 * Furthermore, if I have an "agenda" in this article, it is to prevent WP from being another source of Iran's disinformation on these planes. If it appears that I am harrassing you, it is coincidental, unintended, and misperception on your part.

 * At no point have I spread disinformation about this aircraft, or promoted any Iranian claims about their various weapons systems, real or imagined. On the contrary, I seek the truth in the matter, and CONSTANTLY must run up against Iranians who think that Iran is building F-22 clones, and Americans, who believe that Iran has yet to discover the secret of fire. Technajunky 00:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * You're taking everything personally. I did not imply, nor did I in any way mean you were the source of the disinformation.  The only reason I got involved with the Saeqeh is that someone added a link to the F/A-18 article under "Comparable Aircraft", and I just happened to follow the link.  The Saeqeh article said the plane was entirely Iran-developed, which came as a surprise knowing what I know of Iran.  So, after some research, I found pictures and more information.  That information sounded typical of Iran's (and all other tyrannical governments) disinformation.  Some sources said the Saeqeh was better than the F/A-18, an improved version of the YF-17, and many other descriptions usually making it superior to everything else and mentioning "Iranian experts".  Typical disinformation.  None of your edits that I've seen are what I would call "disinformation". --JJLatWiki 17:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Finally, because I perceived a bias in your edits, I examined other contributions to other articles and observed what seems like bias and changes based on personal offense.

 * More likely than not, you are simply offended by the fact that I initially created conflict with you over terminology on the discussion forum on the Saeqeh article. For that, I apologize, and I was out of line.

 * Now, I suggest you LIST these percieved examples of BIAS in my article corrections and modifications. In the case of of Sarah Shahi, I actually reinforced one of your changes with categorical links(This information is rather "new"). I believe in a fair approach, as well as the ultimate goal of seeking the truth.

 * 1. Several times you removed the Spanish heritage from Sarah Shahi citing "unsubstantiated information" but you left the Iranian heritage. When you doubted the existance of a Saeqeh short-range, surface-to-surface missile system, you inserted the  indicating your doubt.  For Sarah Shahi, you immediately deleted the Spanish heritage even though the IMDB bio verifies the information.  I reached a conclusion about your bias by that action.  I concluded that you will allow any unsubstantiated data that reflects positively on Iran and perhaps its culture, but you will not allow any unsubstantiated negative data.  I concluded that you are offended that a woman whose father is Iranian would be called anything other than Iranian.  From your other deletion on Sarah Shahi, even those substantiated by external sources, I conclude that you are offended that an Iranian woman would defy her father's rule to not learn the spanish language and that she would attend a Christian church.  There is no indication that the bio at Sarah-Shahi.net is inaccurate, yet you dismiss it and deny any attempt to use it as an external source.  --JJLatWiki 17:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * 2. Your insistance that Timur be called a "Turkic conqueror" and not a "Mongol warlord". You deleted the offensive term that was presented with authoritative references.  It seems like none of your changes to Timur included citations and you offered no justification.  --JJLatWiki 17:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * 3. Combat history of the F-14 that involve Iran's use of the plane is subject immediate deletion without first asking for references or offering contradictory references. --JJLatWiki 17:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I do not believe that you are seeking the truth. Deleting "Spanish descent", especially while leaving "Iranian descent", from Sarah Shahi was not "truthful" or seeking the truth.  Seeking the truth requires asking for information, either by placing the  tag when you doubt the information or actually going online and finding the data that supports or defies the claim.  By deleting "Spanish" from Sarah Shahi, especially when the IMDB bio pre-existed as an external link and it supported the claim of her Spanish heritage, you actually harmed Wikipedia as a source of information and dishonored "truth".  --JJLatWiki 17:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * What you are doing seems amounts to cyber-stralking of some sort, and not a very healthy thing to do. If need be, I will seek the aid of mediation in this matter. The real question is, what is your bias? I think we already no the answer to that one... Technajunky 00:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I have my biases, like all humans, but I try to avoid letting that affect the contributions I make to WP. I would not and have not engaged in cyber-stalking or online harrassment.  I have neither the time or the energy to engage in such activity.  I have no interest in you or your politics or your biases.  If my edits contradict yours or your personal opinion, believe me when I say that it is entirely unintended and circumstantial.  If your edit says, "the moon is made of cheese" and I change it and include supporting references, it's not because YOU made the edit, but rather because I felt the edit was wrong or could be made better.  For example, you recently removed "bombed virtual enemy targets" and left "mock".  I think it is appropriate to use both descriptions based on the sources we have both cited, so I plan to restore the quote from your source.  I think the change makes the article better, not because I have any interest in arbitrarily changing every edit YOU make.  --JJLatWiki 17:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I now ask that you carefully read the sources I cited in the Saegheh article that describe a surface-to-surface missile system so named, and invite you back here to debate whether or not I am justified to make such a claim. --JJLatWiki 22:43, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Those links you RECENTLY added simply describe what is known as an ATGM(Anti-Tank Guided Missile). Technajunky 00:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * The China View reference and the United Jeruselum reference both refer to the system as a "surface-to-surface" missile. --JJLatWiki 17:45, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

arbitration?
I am considering going to dispute resolution or arbitration against JzG, for his activities on the PRT pages. I wanted to do it back in April, but I took the high road then due to JzG's personal issues; but now it's coming back to haunt me that I didn't do it then. It may be too late now. What's your opinion? ATren 18:17, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

 * While I would describe most of JzG's edits as having a bias, I think lately they have been, for the most part, innocuous. I think he has a bias that manifests as mild protectionism of PRT against any change that implies PRT could work as anything more than a parking lot circulator system.  However, his actions, at least of late, are only borderline in their demand for, especially, arbitration.  I agree that he is often stubborn and less critical of negative edits than non-negative edits, but I think that as an admin, his fellow admins will rally and err on the side of their fellow admin.  So I think arbitration would not give you favorable results.  That said, I think a WP:RFC specifically for statements he insists be part of the article, or insists be removed could be useful.  That way we could debate the edits without the appearance of an edit war.  Any action specific against JzG will go nowhere, IMO.  --JJLatWiki 19:31, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I was actually referring to JzG's early actions, back in the spring, in which JzG twice threatened to lock the page in response to an innocuous Skybum edit. Locking a page during a content dispute is a no-no, but threatening to lock it is a little more fuzzy. His actions during and after that time were also highly suspect, including repeated reverts of good edits, WP:OWN issues, assuming bad faith on our part, rejecting our edits based solely on his presumption that we were biased, and POV pushing of Avidor's view (he tried to get Avidor's cartoon into the article, then tried to get content from Light Rail Now in - even as he was rejecting journal sources from Anderson and others).

 * I would let it go, but JzG is still going around calling us (mainly me, but also Fresheneesz) POV pushers and trolls. If he would let it go, I wouldn't pursue it, but he refuses to let it go, and I'm sick of following him around and defending myself. That's the only reason why I would go the arbitration route so long after the fact. I agree, his recent actions on the PRT pages are probably not actionable, but his history certainly is. Though I concede it may be to late to go to arbitration with all those old charges...

 * I think JzG is still bitter because I campaigned heavily against him in the arb-com elections...

 * If you're interested, see User:JzG/ATren for a summary of my case (JzG created that as a sort of he-said-she-said, and I put my evidence there). If JzG stops talking about me, I'll likely not proceed with arbitration, but if he continues, I'll go forward with it (what have I got to lose?). Thanks for your input. ATren 21:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree that in the past, he was more biased and inclined to assume the middle ground was somewhere between Avidor's rabid anti-PRT position and the more "pie in the sky" concepts like Unimodal. The longer Avidor stays in the shadows, the more centered, and open-minded JzG becomes.  I would have more strongly supported official action against JzG when he was at his worst.  But as time has moved on, all our recollections have faded and the difficulty of collecting evidence to support the claims has increased substantially.  Now, I haven't delved into the recent history to see what JzG has been saying about you lately, so I will make a little effort to investigate it further.  I guess I've had a few recent run-ins with extremely opinionated and obstinate WP editors, and the experience has changed how willing I am to fight endlessly, especially through edits.  The edit summaries quickly digress and offer onlookers little chance to inject their opinion.  So now, I start a new thread in the talk page, and maybe escalate it to an WP:RfC.  And I've decided that if I don't get satisfaction in an RfC, I probably won't get satisfaction by more extreme means, so I back way off.

 * I'll take a look at the new user JzG created, because I am interested. I think JzG has put himself on a pedestal, and uses his adminship as evidence of his superior mastery of the subject, not just enforcement of the rules, guidelines, and appropriate use of WP.  --JJLatWiki 00:18, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks. Most likely, I will just drop it (unless he escalates again) but I wanted to get some other opinions. ATren 02:40, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Just for the record, and long after the event, I am not bitter at all. I am perfectly sanguine about the whole thing.  "Deals badly with trolls" was a perfectly valid criticism, in the context of an arena which is heavily infested with trolling, and withdrawing was the correct thing to do, and to be honest I only put myself forward because there were few candidates at the time, of whom some fell into my personal "not in a million years" basket; I ecouraged FloNight to stand and was very pleased that she was elected.  The worst possible result would have been for me to be elected and then to continue dealing badly with trolls, so no, I am not in the least bitter and never was - my main problem was with Fys, anyway, not with ATren.  As to my bias, I am strongly biased in favour of policy.  Which means that the article on PRT needs to reflect the verifiable fact that the only systems in production are for car parks.  Sure, we can document that PRT proponents dream of the skies, but only as long as we note that they have so faronly got as far as a small step-ladder.  The idea that we document what has been achieved (as opposed to what promoters claim will one day be) is not, actually, a particularly controversial view. Guy (Help!) 11:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

 * For the record, Guy: we are both working toward the same thing: building a good encyclopedia, but we strongly disagree on specifics. I think, through all of this warring, we've all build a healthy respect for each other, even if we sharply disagree. In any event, I consider all of that in the past. This was an old conversation that I intentionally let drop (even though I appreciated your comments on the user page, JJLatWiki) because I want to move on and let it go. It's all documented, you said your piece, I said mine, and I intend to do my best to let it die. Should things flare up again, I think we should both (quickly) seek help from trusted third parties, like Durova or Stephen Streater, before it gets out of hand, because fighting will get us nowhere. Let's just move on. And, in the spirit of cooperation, feel free to call on me if you are dealing with a particularly difficult dispute, and I will try to lend a hand before you get to the point of losing your temper - and I promise I won't bring up old disputes. :-) ATren 15:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, I think we are both working for the same thing. As to whether we disagree on specifics, I would not really know - I've only encountered you on one article out of the several thousand I've edited, and you seem to have some pretty entrenched views on that subject, whereas it's of only passing interest to me.  I try not to draw too many conclusions from single instances (human frailties notwithstanding) and I can get to like most people.  My major problem on that article was always with Fresheneesz and I have a problem with him in several other areas, too, and so do several other people.  But this is a pretty inclusive project, and very diverse people with wildly differing and often bitterly opposed views seem, somehow, to make it work most of the time.  I mean, when you think about it, with - what? - one and a half million articles?  Some tens of thousands of active contributors, hundreds of thousands who edit at least occasionally, and we get by with under a dozen arbitrators, rarely more than a dozen cases running at once, a few volunteer mediators, and not that many active janitors, and we still manage to get most of the whackos, advertisers and egregious pushers of tiny minority views corralled and either educated or banned.  It's amazing, really. It's what I like about this project and why I am still here despite the likes of User:ParalelUni. Right now we have a problem with Cplot, which causes a bit of drama, but this will die down.  There's always an undercurrent of drama, but it rarely results in much. The project is not much different now to what it was before the Great Userbox War of 2005/2006, for example, most of the people who were involved on both sides are still here and most of them have got over it. It's like nowhere else on the Net. Guy (Help!) 23:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Re: "entrenched views" - no, opposition to an editor whose sole purpose is trolling and POV-pushing does not imply an "entrenched view". Otherwise, I agree with everything you said. ATren 23:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree also, but also except for describing ATren as having pretty entrenched views on the subject. I think I have a particular optimism about the technical viability of the subject, although I am particularly pessimistic about the political possibility of getting such a system built.  I think ATren is optimistic about both the technical and political feasability.  But I don't see him being particularly promotional or advancing a particular POV.  I think it is a little unfair to call it a POV if someone happens to agree with the research that says something can work.  We're not talking about the politics of getting the thing built, where POV is a driving influence.  I'm reminded again of the space elevator.  Compare the articles for the space elevator to PRT.  The PRT article is riddled with provisos and warnings that no complete system has ever been built and there are researchers who say it can't possibly work as well as the proponents dream, if at all.  But the space elevator article is almost all about the dream, and practically nothing regarding the technical and political near impossibility.  I mean no one dropped in the warning that, oh by the way, as of x date, the longest carbon nanotube produced was only 5.57 centimeters long and 70 nanometers (which I completely made up, but the length of the longest nanotube is shockingly short compared to the dream).  To give ATren (and my own edits) a little more latitude, the most extreme edits took place when Avidor was most active in the article, and his extremism caused a lot of waves and counter ripples.  It's hard to be calm and collected when someone implies that you are an extremist because there is so much middle ground between yourself and someone the likes of Avidor.

 * By the way, thanks to both of you for continuing this discussion. I think we're starting to get to know each other much better as a result and will perhaps find some benefit in the future as a result.  --JJLatWiki 01:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree with pretty much everything you say here, except the part where I am optimistic about the political realities. I don't think I'm as pessimistic as you or Guy, but I'm certainly not optimistic. In fact, I've never raised the PRT possibility in my own city, and I probably never will, because I realize what an uphill political battle it would be.

 * Perhaps people mis-interpret my extreme distaste for the anti-PRT political campaign; that my objection to anti-PRT political propaganda makes me a proponent, or an optimist, or a dreamer. I think this is unfair. When I object to misleading criticism of PRT, such as that found at Light Rail Now or Avidor's blogs, this does not imply that I would object to well-founded criticism. Indeed, I was supportive of Louis Demery's regulatory concerns from the very beginning. Demery is a vocal critic of PRT, yet once I realized his research was sound and his concerns verifiable, I encouraged him to add a paragraph to the article, which he did (and it remains today).

 * My problem was always with the inflammatory fluff, like Light Rail Now's misleading paper, and Avidor's political blogs. These were never reliable sources - they diverted the debate away from political/technical reality, and into the realm of silly mudslinging. Instead of a real debate on the technologies, i.e. should a mid-sized city stick with the tried-but-not-always-true light rail or take a huge risk on promising-yet-unproven PRT, these opponents shift the debate to ridiculous political turf wars. Objecting to this sort of sillyness doesn't make me an optimist or a proponent. ATren 02:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Point taken and could not agree more. Countering Avidor's extremism (i.e. guided bomb delivery system for terrorists) is not the same thing as being PRT proponent.  But, I have a particular distaste for "Light" Rail, and so when someone uses LRT as a counter argument to PRT my attention is instinctively drawn to it.  My problem with LRT is that, for the most part, it's been proven to be an inefficient and ineffective means of urban transportation, and I, as a tax payer and property owner, pay for most of it and get the least benefit from it.  I've heard stories about private commuter bus companies all over the country who once provided great service and operated at a profit without government subsidies.  I see not even the most remote such possibility for Light Rail.  And since PRT is the bastard child of transit politics, it will probably take private investment and a extremely high confidence in profitable operation for a PRT transit system to ever be built.  The state of California will give away billions of dollars for stem cell research, but no government authority in America would think about even granting access to public land to help test an unproven transit technology.  They seem to have no problems with spending billions to buy homes and businesses along a proposed LRT corridor and building a few miles of a Light Rail system that serves a laughable fraction of the commuting population.  They'll even steal private property so that Disneyland can have their own exit ramp off the freeway.  Sorry.  Now I'm getting myself pissed and off the subject.  --JJLatWiki 16:23, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for asking
Thanks for asking, by the way, I appreciate it. Shows we can look past our differences :-) Guy (Help!) 11:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Likewise. I appreciate and respect your suggestions regardless of our differences elsewhere.  Honest disagreements, discussions, and debates add a little something to the flavor of life.  Such thing shouldn't be a universal barrier between people.  --JJLatWiki 15:54, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Autoblocked?
JzG, apparently someone was doing some bad stuff using the same web protection proxy service I use at my company. Trust me when I say that Messagelabs is a very respected company and if the IP address is an open proxy, they and I would be shocked and intensely interested to know. I have no affiliation to Messagelabs other than the fact that they are vendor of the company for whom I work. Please unblock the IP.

wiki-information regarding your experiences at MCAS El Toro
Hi! I believe you stated that you served at MCAS El Toro and that you were discharged from active service in the USMC at MCAS El Toro on January 20, 1991. Can you provide any detail regarding your duties at El Toro? I hope to improve the MCAS El Toro article, and I would really appreciate your help. Thanks! JPatrickBedell 17:00, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I was at El Toro (off and on, between training and deployments) from 1985 to 1991. I would say the vast majority of that time was uneventful and of no historic significance.  Most of the time was with VMFA-314, but some time was with VMFA-531 and MAG-11.  My memory of specific dates is very poor and the only things that might have some historic significance were when I was assigned to MAG-11 G-2.  In preparation for a few minor military actions and exercises, I would brief and debrief fighter pilots on certain aspects of their missions.  All of which was classified "secret" or "NATO secret", and obviously, even if I could remember useful details, I could not talk about them.  Fighter pilots have little opportunity to engage in the stuff of conspiracies, and their activities are generally covered in aspects relative to the mission, and not the base from which they departed.

 * FYI, I'll support the inclusion of Col. Sabow's death in the El Toro article based on the unusual coverage it has garnered, but I will not support the implication of a conspiracy without multiple extraordinarily significant sources. IMO, Sabow's new title and the fact that that title was based at El Toro are the best courses of action for building onto the El Toro story.  I imagine holders of that title tend to move up to even more prominent positions.  You might also want to find out what that title means and how many similar positions exist, like for the eastern region, pacwest, and europe.  Good luck.  I'll help in any way I can. --JJLatWiki 18:45, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Thank you. Before I comment more, I wanted to observe that dark conspiracies to control the US government would have a hard time prevailing without the timely support of fighter pilots, unwitting or otherwise. ;-) Thanks for your help!  JPatrickBedell 20:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Quite right about fighter pilots. Although I think their involvement would be less called for than that of a cargo or transport pilot, though still not incomprehensible.  I have helped carry birthday and christmas gifts that pilots stowed behind the seat or in an empty maintenance panel, so I assume something illegal or part of a conspiracy could just as easily be transported that way.  --JJLatWiki 21:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Azarakhsh
Hello! I noticed you un-did my edit on the Azarakhsk aircraft. I am going to change the "citation needed" to a direct link, as to avoid any confusion. If you have any questions, please leave me a message! Padishah5000 15:53, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello again! I made some changes to the article, and I would like to know what you think. I also am searching for a photo of the aircraft that has a public use copyright. I believe I found one from 1995 or 1996, but I am debating using it. It is black and white, and rather grainy, and literally looks exactly like and F-5 II. Also, the article mentions the N-019 Topaz radar possibly being used by the aircraft. I see no citation for that, and on a purely personal level, do no see how that system could even fit into the nose of an F-5. Any thoughts on this? Padishah5000 16:10, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Everything that I've read and seen indicates that Azarakhsh literally is an F-5 from their existing inventory. It might use some locally manufactured parts, maybe even a significant percentage, but I doubt it has 0% original Northrup components.  The information available on any Iranian development can only be based on the propaganda released by their spokespeople and speculation by outside experts.  I was never particularly troubled by the Topaz claim because it's possible to modify the system with components that will fit into a slightly modified nose.  Some performance would be sacrificed of course, but I think it could fit.  I left it in the article because I didn't find it particularly contentous and because the defenders of the Iranian fighter planes became too agressive for my level concern.  In my opinion, Azarakhsh and Saegheh are nothing more than an attempt to keep as many F-5's flying as possible, usually by cannibalizing parts from some F-5's to make another F-5 flyable.  I sincerely hope you find reliable sources of information.  Even grainy black and white images are better than nothing.  Good luck.  --JJLatWiki 22:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You raise some good points. The TAU article I linked to might very well be a biased source in some form. I myself am no expert on Israeli sources, and fully admit that they might have their own purpose for any suggested claims, just as the Iranian government would for propaganda related reasons.. The "Azarakhsh" might very well be an original Iranian F-5 from the 70's, or one acquired on the open market, from Ethiopia, for example, since I recall reading that Iran purchashed 12 or so airframes from that source in the early 90's, and had them rebuilt into operational form. Or, it actually could be a case where the Iranians produced one or more partial or complete airframes, coupled with original F-5 engines and avionics. We may never know for sure. Interestingly enough, from all the sources I have read, the Iranian "Saegheh" is 100% certain to be an original Northrop F-5 II, with a composite structure added to the frame to support a twin-tail configuration. I guess the ultimate arbitrator in such an arguement will be if Northrop Grumman follows the path of Bell Textron, and actually files a lawsuit against the Iranian government in federal court for unlicensed production. As of yet, I have not heard of NG following any course of legal action, such as Bell did last October, in regards to helicopter production. Oh, as far as overzealous "defenders of the Iranian fighter planes" are concerned, I have dealt with them in times past as well. As an "old school grognard", I always believed that facts are the ultimate weapon against fanciful ideas. If you ever need help in searhing for data to deal with such single-minded editors, just drop me a line! I pride myself in dealing with available raw facts, as opposed to absurd proclimations from the Iranian government. Padishah5000 06:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the black and white pic I have is literally just of an F-5. It is "labeled" as an Azarakhsh, and seems to be from an open source, and I will double check to make sure. It of course does not remove the simple fact that it might actually be an original F-5, simply labeled as a "new fighter" for the Iranian newspaper. I will link what I have to your talk page for your opinion, when I am certain it is not private property. Really makes me wish something would happen in that part of the world, if only to make any of this particular questions that are so annoying, get answered! Padishah5000 06:42, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The value of the JCSS information regarding the Azarakhsh is minor in the extreme. It seems to be no more than a numerical summary of the other articles that mention the plane.  It says nothing more than; 6 made, 6 in service, 30 planned, indigenously developed.  All of that information is contained in the GlobalSecurity reference.  But JCSS may turn out to be an interesting source in the future.  --JJLatWiki 17:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Regarding the value of a Northrup Grumman lawsuite, in my opinion, if Bell actually did file a lawsuit against the government of Iran over unlicensed production, it was purely cosmetic. The value of such action is fodder for academic discussion only.  Their lawyers know that they have no hope to stop such production or collect licensing fees.  So the only reason to file such a suit is to demonstrate that they are actively attempting to protect their rights in the event that an otherwise friendly nation moves to produce an NG product without authorization.  --JJLatWiki 17:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * True, there really can't be any result from such litigation with the current situation between the U.S and Iranian governments. Maybe Bell will get lucky in a few years, if the situation changes, but I am not holding my breath on that. Its a shame that the only info available on the Bell suit is in minor news briefs. Padishah5000 18:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Finally, I don't share your wish for something to happen in Iran. I would rather the truth never be known if military action is the only way to know the truth.  I have absolute confidence that Iran's airforce would present little challenge to any US led attack, but the repercussions could easily get tragic for the region, if not the world.  The unanswered questions about Iran's fighter programs are lot less interesting than the speculation.  --JJLatWiki 17:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hah! Sorry about that. I was being alittle sarcastic when I wrote that, I suppose. For the record, the last thing I would want to see is a war that kills scores and scores of people, just so an armchair general like myself can solve some little puzzle in my head. At anyrate, I do thank you for the responses you gave, and if you feel that my link was redundant in the article in question, please feel free to remove it, and the rest of my edits to the article. You seem to be very knowledgible on these topics. Padishah5000 18:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Montini Catholic Edit
I left you a note on the talk:Montini Catholic High School (Lombard, Illinois) page but I thought I'd drop a note here too. I noticed that you deleted some of my information on the Montini Catholic High School (Lombard, Illinois) article and I was hoping for an explanation so we might reach a consensus. My information was sourced. Additionally, I noticed that you deleted some information as a "senseless marketing ploy" I believe. Keep in mind that, though this is an encyclopedia, some colorful wording can be used. For instance, you deleted "small, family atmosphere" but that is sincerely Montini's aim (check their website) and, as they have a 1:12 student to faculty ratio, I'd say they've achieved it. If that wording is inappropriate you should delete "established themselves as a powerhouse" from Montini's rival, Driscoll Catholic. Throw in some adjectives too. Eris11 22:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I replied there.  On a side note, I don't see why a 1:12 ratio defines it as a "family atmosphere".  I only stumbled onto Montini and have been hanging around since.  I'll take a look at Driscoll and clean things up there too, if I can.  "Established themselves as a powerhouse" is definitely too colorful.  --JJLatWiki 00:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Operation Kheibar
This isn't propaganda, it was an Iranian victory that fact stands thoght they had heavy losses. I didn't mean the sentence: "the only thing that saved [the Iranian troops] was the fact that they had so many soldiers that where all eager to fight out of loyalty to their nation" as propaganda, I said this because when Saddam attacked he thought the Iranian people would turn against their gouvnerment as the Mullahs aren't that populair, however the people out of loyalty to their nation joined the Army and fought hard, this sentence was not supposed to sound like propaganda, I meant with it that the soldiers fought out of loyalty to their nation and not out of loyalty to their gouvnerment and well no one can denie that they had so many soldiers, qand well eager to fight, that they where, it's not like they where all demotivated and forced in to battle. As for the List of countries by number of total troops, it's no gimic to make Iran have a list where they where on top, actually something I usually don't mention, I didn't start it but the list only had 10 nations in it (with Iran on top), not a top 10 no just 10, some where missing, the fact that I added over 140 countries to the list is why I see it as an artickle by me, not that I own it or something, anyone can edit it if they wnat, no one does. The argument with maccuty was that Basij has 90,000 active memebers, 300,000 reserves and 11,000,000 volunteers, he had a source wich didn't mention the volunteers so he thought they weren't there. Now I have also made articles about battles that Iran lost, Operation Dawn 3 for instance. The Honorable Kermanshahi 15:22, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I understand and accept that you did not intend for it to sound like propoganda, but in my opinion, much of your wording is not NPOV. You might have been a participant in the operation and have first hand knowledge that the Iranian troops were participating out of loyalty, but that doesn't count for anything in Wikipedia.  Do you have non-trivial sources that support the notion that the Iranian forces fought out of loyalty and it was that loyalty that saved the day?  If not, such statements should be removed.  You described Operation Dawn 3 as the "least successful", but it seems more like it was "worst defeat" of the Dawn operations.  "Least successful" is a flattering way to say, "worst defeat" and such flattery dishonors truth.  As far as the List of Countries by Total Troops, I know that you did not start it and that you've added a great deal to the list, but it still seems like a gimmick to me.  The person who actually did create the list may be the one most guilty of exploiting the gimmick, but I think it is a gimmick none-the-less.  You've perpetuated the gimmick and built up the list to give the article the appearance of being more meaningful.  The way you've edited the list and defended it in the discussions leads me to believe that IF someone found a source that described some Chinese "paramilitary" force that was made of "volunteers" from the general population of every man and woman between 15 and 49 adding 500,000,000 "troops" to their military, you would find a way to rename the list so that Iran was still on top.  I get the sense that when you edit you are working to ensure Iran's honor is upheld more than anything else.  That's just my opinion, I could be misjudging you.  Feel free to ignore my opinion or use it in any way you like.  --JJLatWiki 22:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

 * First of all, the List of countries by number of total troops isn't a gemic, some people (like me) are interested in this and would like to see a ranking of how many soldiers nations have. Thats how I started with Wikipedia, as you might have noticed as I used to edit these lists so much, I wanted to know wich countrie had the biggest army and typed it in on google, then I found this and later started expanding it, I didn't do it for Irans honour, I did it cause I thought it would be so good that all kind of people would look here and read things wich I wrote, just realising that I was the one that had put all this was quite ice. As for the Iran-Iraq war battles, I'll re-read them and see what I can change to make 'em sound more neutral. AS for Irans troops loyalty to their nation, it says on many places, in almost every story about the Iran Iraq war it is mentioned that one of Irans biggest advantages was how motivated their troops where, or that Saddams big mistiake was to think that Iranians would like him to kick out ther gouvnerment but underestimated their loyalty to their nation. Of course numbers also played a big role in this war. The Honorable Kermanshahi 21:10, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Fair enough. I wish you the best of luck and satisfaction in your edits.  --JJLatWiki 23:58, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Catholic politicians page
Hello; unfortunately, I've just come across your notice on my talk page re List of Catholic politicians. After carefully reading your arguments, I tend to agree with most of them- but: as I see it, these "denominational" lists are, more or less, of the same kind. Just browse through [Category:Lists_of_Christians] or similar stuff; for instance List_of_Protestant_authors or List_of_Jews_in_politics are at least as superfluous as the mentioned Catholic politicians list. As I see it- these lists are for fun (but they have to be factually correct, of course), and Catholics are split in many categories and lists because it's so many of them. Frankly, I don't intend to spend much energy on bettering this (or similar ) page(s) & you do what's the best for wiki as an info source. But, stick to the basic fairness: this list has as much meaning as the similar ones pertaining to other denominations. So, if this one goes, the others should follow. Best Mir Harven 20:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Mir Harven. I agree such lists can be fun, entertaining, and even useful.  I invite you take part in the debate over a similar list of Shia Muslims.  If we are to succeed in clearing these particular lists, it will take more than a handful of concerned editors all with a similar respect for the policies against such lists.  --JJLatWiki 14:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Notification of list deletion proposal or AfD nom.
If you would like to be notified on your talk page any time I add a tag to or nominate for AfD any of the many indescriminate lists of people connected only by a common religious affiliation, please add your user name to the following list:

Azarakhsh News Photo Release
Hello JJLatWiki! I just had a quick personal question for you. What is your professional opinion of that recently released news photo of the "Azarakhsh", notably the different wing/engine air intake relationship. Any thoughts? I had seen a proposed drawing of the variant some time ago(actually dubbed Azarakhsh-II in 2003), but that is the first actual photograph of it, minus a circa 1995 release that simply looked like an F-5E. I would love to hear your input, as you seem very knowledgeable in this field. Padi 11:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

 * I haven't seen a new picture. I no longer get to spend the kind of time I would like researching aviation technology.  The only new picture I've seen is the one in this IRNA article.  However, that particular picture looks like the years-old Global Security image you alleged to be Photoshopped, and which I agree is Photoshopped.  Can you give me a link to the image?  I've been anxious for new data on these planes.  --JJLatWiki 14:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Ignore that. I just saw the new image on the Azarakhsh article.  It's an interesting image.  The obvious difference is the mid-body wing with extended strakes, and the position of the elevators are closer to mid-body.  The engine intakes are still very small, indicating that engine thrust, and therefore top speed, remains low.  I'm skeptical about the authenticity of the image.  It seems like reporters were given the image, but did not actually witness it either in flight or on the ground.  At least we got to see video of the IAMI Saeqeh flying.  --JJLatWiki 15:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Very interesting, and I thank you for taking the time to give your input into the matter. You raise two very good points. One, that it could very well be a digitally doctored picture given to an "official" Iranian news agency for distribution, not to mention the fact that no actual video of this claimed incarnation of the F-5 seems to be available. Second, that the aircraft's power plant cannot be significantly different, due to the aircraft's small air intakes. I am going to double check the copyright on that photo, and I once again I am glad to hear your analysis. Padi 23:29, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I'm sending you this message, since it looks like you've been a recent contributor to the page... Korny O'Near (talk) 03:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

You're either with us, or against us
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article You're either with us, or against us, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add  to the top of You're either with us, or against us.

Image uploading
I noticed your trying to add an image to the ULTra article. Uploading images requires use of the Upload file link (at left side of page) rather than the article creation method of clicking on a new link. I also suggest you consider uploading images to Commons, where they can be used by any Wikipedia project. -- SEWilco (talk) 18:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I had uploaded it, though not to the Commons, prior to creating the link, but an Admin deleted it seconds later based on CSD#I3.  I've [|asked for his advice].  Maybe you have some advice on how accomplish the desired end?  --JJLatWiki (talk) 18:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Ah. The restriction which requires a specific caption does not get along well with reuse and derivative work requirements in Wikipedia and Commons licenses.  If they request a specific caption then we can ignore the request, but if they require a specific caption then we can't use it because of the need to be able to modify the image (or in this case the image+caption package).  That's why I added a photo request tag to invite someone to find/create a free image.  We know several locations (test track and track under construction) which could be photographed, whether by invitation, from outside, or from overhead (although most people don't get to choose where their pilot will fly in the area).  -- SEWilco (talk) 18:45, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

 * I see. Then it seems that Wikipedia should be safe since the caption is a request and not a requirement, "we do ask that you use the caption".  What do you think?  --JJLatWiki (talk) 20:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Incidentally, your "Adding comments" popup box obscures the end of long sentences such as this one which has extra words in order to ensure with certainty that it is overly long and reaches the right end of the screen so it will run under the box unless you are using a very wide monitor or several Xinerama monitors side by side so as to have a very wide virtual screen and thus you don't notice the problem which others see due to the box never covering the end of the text. -- SEWilco (talk) 18:45, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

 * There just isn't enough talk going on on my talk page, so I never noticed that problem. I'll fix it soon.  --JJLatWiki (talk) 20:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I see somebody else has already helped you. From the statement here, you might be able to get away with tagging it as attribution - personally I'd contact the company for clarification about reuse and derivative works. Regards, east. 718 at 20:48, January 31, 2008

 * I've uploaded it again using the attribution template. What is your opinion as to how well it will hold to scrutiny?  --JJLatWiki (talk) 22:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks OK. If anybody questions it, I'd email the copyright holder and ask for specifics. east. 718 at 03:19, February 1, 2008

 * Thanks. I've emailed them in the past and gotten no response.  Maybe I'll try contact their U.S. consultant.  --JJLatWiki (talk) 04:05, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

PB-244854
I do not understand why you cut the Reference to the DOT study PB-244854 that was an part of the process for building Morgantown. It is the blueprint, Morgantown the execution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BillJamesMN (talk • contribs) 21:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

 * BillJamesMN, I've tried repeatedly to assume good faith in your contributions, by that I mean good faith that your contributions are for the benefit of Wikipedia. I've tried to advise you on matters of protocol and policy. In regards to PB-244854, you've taken an insignificant government assessment and read into it anything that you personally feel supports your conclusion, AND you've ignored anything that does not support your conclusion. You've inflated the significance of the document into an intentioned blueprint for Morgantown, PRT, ending oil addiction, and how to deal with peak oil.  While I feel it is none of these things, your edits amount to original research in contradiction to an official policy of Wikipedia. --JJLatWiki (talk) 17:25, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

 * On a more personal note, you should be more careful how you use such sources, because this one can very easily be used against PRT. Case in point, take a look at page 22 of the PB-244854 PDF file, there the assessment says, "Even allowing a generous amount for one-time R & D charges, these systems have proved very costly for the amount of service that they can provide."  If you are going to use a technology assessment as a building block to support PRT development, you probably don't want such negative quotes. --JJLatWiki (talk) 17:25, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

ULTra pic
I see you added the picture of the ULTra test track to the ULTra article, but it is a fair use image, not public domain. Can we use this image in the main PRT article as well, or is that not permitted because it's fair use? It'd be nice to have a photo on the PRT article, but I don't want to add it if it would be against policy. ATren (talk) 21:18, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

 * The interpretation is subject to the whims of the Admins, so I wouldn't want to push it, BUT... The way I interpret their permission, "You are welcome to use these images which are of the highest resolution available, but we do ask that you use the caption: "Advanced Transport Systems Ltd. www.atsltd.co.uk"", is that anyone can use the images for anything they want as long they include the caption. Except for the caption, it seems to be unrestricted use.  Which is why I was advised by an Admin to use the "attribution" template instead of the fair use template.  --JJLatWiki (talk) 23:38, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

 * I have the same question as ATren for the German PRT article (which is brand new*), feeling unsafe about the policy.So can I also use it including the caption? * I created that article last week after looking at the english article for years. In Germany the interest seems to be very very low. Here are no dicussion, ideas, research or any other activities, we even do not have (as far as I know) a word for PRT (thus I took the same word) The death of coaster has not improoved this sitiation.on german wikipedia my user name is Zwölfvolt, eventually it won't work here:--85.178.220.172 (talk) 01:57, 11 November 2008 (UTC)(ok it does not).

 * Yeah, that was my feeling as well - I don't want to push it. I'll get permission from someone before I do it (do you know any image-centric admins that would be able to help?) I've also spoken to the inventor of Mist-er PRT about releasing some of the images of his prototype (see ), and he's willing to do that. That'd be nice, because then we'd have prototype pics of both a supported and suspended system. ATren (talk) 00:01, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid I don't really know any admins at all. The Mist-er looks much more refined than say, JPods.  But I feel that both (like most) have been designed with far less thoughtful analysis than J.E. Anderson's designs.  Speaking of which, I think that's a separate category from JPods/Mist-er suspension and ULTra's.  In fact, what would you call ULTra's guildeway technique?  Essentially, ULTra uses a narrow, dedicated, separate roadway.  I guess that would make it a "track".  If the cars follow something embedded in the center of the floor of the track, then the walls aren't technically necessary.  Anderson's design has a passenger compartment that sits on top of its drive unit, which rides within a channel.  Is that a significant difference from ULTra?  Track vs channel?  And then, what about the RUF style that kinda wraps around the guideway instead of being inside the guideway?  --JJLatWiki (talk) 15:59, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ULTra guideway might be called 'open.' The design evolved from a continuous wall in early images, to the Cardiff track with no wall at all on the elevated portion, to the open railing in evidence at Heathrow.
 * Anderson's could be called 'enclosed', although I believe the original term was 'U-shaped'
 * RUF = 'straddle.' --Mr Grant (talk) 22:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Ah yes. "Straddle" is what I was looking for. OK now... except for the maglevs, technically, they all have wheels that ride on a track, whether those wheels are in the: a) "U-shaped" guideway with the car above the guideway, b) maybe an "Inverted U" (wheels inside) or "Inverted T" (wheels outside?) and the car suspended below, or c) an "Inverted V" with the car straddling the guideway.
 * Do you know if the Heathrow ULTra uses the sides for navigation? --JJLatWiki (talk) 22:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * ATS originally used the FROG/2getthere vehicle control system for ULTra. That system followed magnetic markers. However they weren't happy with it. The system they developed instead uses laser sensing, but they don't say if the sides are involved. I suppose they would have to disclose that to regulators, so someone interested enough could make an inquiry. --Mr Grant (talk) 08:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

File:Simple PRT.gif listed for deletion
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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Proposed deletion of American College of Trial Lawyers

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Nomination of American College of Trial Lawyers for deletion
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Victorian literature

Victorian literature is English literature during the reign of Queen Victoria (1837–1901). The 19th century is considered by some the Golden Age of English Literature, especially for British novels. In the Victorian era, the novel became the leading literary genre in English. English writing from this era reflects the major transformations in most aspects of English life, from scientific, economic, and technological advances to changes in class structures and the role of religion in society. The number of new novels published each year increased from 100 at the start of the period to 1000 by the end of it. Famous novelists from this period include Charles Dickens, William Makepeace Thackeray, the three Brontë sisters, Elizabeth Gaskell, George Eliot (Mary Ann Evans), Thomas Hardy, and Rudyard Kipling.

The Romantic period was a time of abstract expression and inward focus; during the Victorian era, writers focused on social issues. Writers such as Thomas Carlyle called attention to the dehumanizing effects of the Industrial Revolution and what Carlyle called the "Mechanical Age". This awareness inspired the subject matter of other authors, like poet Elizabeth Barrett Browning and novelists Charles Dickens and Thomas Hardy. Barrett's works on child labor cemented her success in a male-dominated world where women writers often had to use masculine pseudonyms. Dickens employed humor and an approachable tone while addressing social problems such as wealth disparity. Hardy used his novels to question religion and social structures.

Poetry and theatre were also present during the Victorian era. Robert Browning and Alfred Tennyson were Victorian England's most famous poets. With regard to the theatre it was not until the last decades of the 19th century that any significant works were produced. Notable playwrights of the time include Gilbert and Sullivan, George Bernard Shaw, and Oscar Wilde.

Prose fiction
Charles Dickens is the most famous Victorian novelist. With a focus on strong characterization, Dickens became extraordinarily popular in his day and remains one of the most popular and read authors of the world. Dickens began his literary career with Sketches by Boz (1833–1836) which collected short stories published in various newspapers and other periodicals. His first novel, The Pickwick Papers (1836–1837) written when he was twenty-five, was an overnight success, and all his subsequent works sold extremely well. The comedy of his first novel has a satirical edge and this pervades his writing. While at the beginning of the 19th century most novels were published in three volumes, monthly serialization was revived with the publication of Charles Dickens' Pickwick Papers in twenty parts between April 1836 and November 1837. Demand was high for each episode to introduce some new element, whether it was a plot twist or a new character, so as to maintain the readers' interest. Dickens worked diligently and prolifically to produce the entertaining writing that the public wanted, but also to offer commentary on social problems and the plight of the poor and oppressed. His most important works include Oliver Twist (1837–1839), Nicholas Nickleby (1838–1839), A Christmas Carol (1843), Dombey and Son (1846–1848), David Copperfield (1849–1850), Bleak House (1852–1853), Little Dorrit (1855–1857), A Tale of Two Cities (1859), and Great Expectations (1860–1861). His later novels become progressively darker, mirroring a tendency in much of Victorian writing.

William Makepeace Thackeray was Dickens' great rival in the first half of Queen Victoria's reign. With a similar style but a slightly more detached, acerbic and barbed satirical view of his characters, he also tended to depict a more middle-class society than Dickens did. He is best known for his novels The Luck of Barry Lyndon (1844) and Vanity Fair (1847–1848) which are examples of a popular form in Victorian literature: a historical novel in which recent history is depicted.

Charlotte, Emily, and Anne Brontë produced notable works of the period, although these were not immediately appreciated by Victorian critics. Wuthering Heights (1847), Emily's only work, is an example of Gothic Romanticism from a woman's point of view, which examines class, myth, and gender. Jane Eyre (1847), by her sister Charlotte, is another major Victorian novel with Gothic themes. Anne's second novel The Tenant of Wildfell Hall (1848), written in a realistic rather than romantic style, is mainly considered to be the first sustained feminist novel.

Elizabeth Gaskell produced notable works during this period, including Mary Barton (1848), Cranford (1851–1853), North and South (1854–1855), and Wives and Daughters (1864–1866).

George Eliot (Mary Ann Evans) also produced major works during this period, most notably Adam Bede (1859), The Mill on the Floss (1860), Silas Marner (1861), Middlemarch (1871–1872), and Daniel Deronda (1876). Like the Brontës she published under a masculine pseudonym.

Later in this period, Thomas Hardy's best-known novels are Far from the Madding Crowd (1874), The Mayor of Casterbridge (1886), Tess of the d'Urbervilles (1891), and Jude the Obscure (1895). Renowned for his cynical yet idyllic portrayal of pastoral life in the English countryside, Hardy's work pushed back against widespread urbanization that came to symbolize the Victorian age.

Other significant novelists of this era were Anthony Trollope (1815–1882), Wilkie Collins (1824-1889), George Meredith (1828–1909), and George Gissing (1857–1903).

Poetry

Robert Browning (1812–1889) and Alfred Tennyson (1809–1892) were notable poets in Victorian England. Thomas Hardy wrote poetry throughout his life, but did not publish a collection until 1898. The poetry of Gerard Manley Hopkins (1844–1889) was published posthumously in 1918. Algernon Charles Swinburne (1837–1909) is also considered an important literary figure of the period, especially his poems and critical writings. Early poetry of W. B. Yeats was also published in Victoria's reign. It was not until the last decades of the 19th century that any significant theatrical works were produced, beginning with Gilbert and Sullivan's comic operas of the 1870s, George Bernard Shaw's (1856–1950) plays of the 1890s, and Oscar Wilde's (1854–1900) The Importance of Being Earnest.

Elizabeth Barrett Browning and Robert Browning became acquainted first by reading each other's poetry and both produced poems inspired by their relationship. Both Matthew Arnold and Gerard Manley Hopkins wrote poems that sit somewhere in between the exultation of nature of the romantic Poetry and the Georgian Poetry of the early 20th century. However, Hopkins's poetry was not published until 1918. Arnold's works anticipate some of the themes of these later poets, while Hopkins drew inspiration from verse forms of Old English poetry such as Beowulf.

The reclaiming of the past was a major part of Victorian literature with an interest in both classical literature and also medieval literature of England. This movement can be traced back to Letitia Elizabeth Landon and her poetry collections. Victorians loved chivalrous stories of knights of old; they hoped to regain some of that courtly behavior for readers at home and in the wider empire. The best example of this is Alfred Tennyson's Idylls of the King, which blended the stories of King Arthur, particularly those by Thomas Malory, with contemporary concerns and ideas. The Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood also drew on myth and folklore for their art, with Dante Gabriel Rossetti contemporaneously regarded as the chief poet amongst them, although his sister Christina is now held by scholars to be a stronger poet.

Drama
In drama, farces, musical burlesques, extravaganzas and comic operas competed with Shakespeare productions and serious drama by the likes of James Planché and Thomas William Robertson. In 1855, the German Reed Entertainments began a process of elevating the level of (formerly risqué) musical theatre in Britain that culminated in the famous series of comic operas by Gilbert and Sullivan and were followed by the 1890s with the first Edwardian musical comedies. The first play to achieve 500 consecutive performances was the London comedy Our Boys by H. J. Byron, opening in 1875. Its astonishing new record of 1,362 performances was bested in 1892 by Charley's Aunt by Brandon Thomas. After W. S. Gilbert, Oscar Wilde became the leading poet and dramatist of the late Victorian period. Wilde's plays, in particular, stand apart from the many now-forgotten plays of Victorian times and have a closer relationship to those of the Edwardian dramatists such as George Bernard Shaw, whose career began in the 1890s. Wilde's 1895 comic masterpiece, The Importance of Being Earnest, was the greatest of the plays in which he held an ironic mirror to the aristocracy while displaying virtuosic mastery of wit and paradoxical wisdom. It has remained extremely popular. The plays of Arthur Wing Pinero have been staged again in the last few decades.

Children's literature
The Victorians are credited with "inventing childhood", partly via their efforts to stop child labor and the introduction of compulsory education. As children began to be able to read, literature for young people became a growth industry, with not only established writers producing works for children (such as Dickens' A Child's History of England) but also a new group of dedicated children's authors. Writers like Lewis Carroll (Alice's Adventures in Wonderland), Anna Sewell (Black Beauty), and R. M. Ballantyne (The Coral Island) wrote mainly for children, although they had an adult following. Other authors such as Robert Louis Stevenson (Treasure Island) and Anthony Hope (The Prisoner of Zenda) wrote mainly for adults, but their adventure novels are now generally classified as for children. Other genres include nonsense verse, poetry which required a childlike interest (e.g. Lewis Carroll's "Jabberwocky"). School stories flourished: Thomas Hughes' Tom Brown's Schooldays and Kipling's Stalky & Co. are classics.

Rarely were these publications designed to capture a child’s pleasure; however, with the increase in the use of illustrations, children began to enjoy literature and were able to learn morals in a more entertaining way. With the newfound acceptance of reading for pleasure, fairy tales and folk tales became popular. Compiling folk tales by many authors with different topics made it possible for children to read literature about many topics which interested them. There were different types of books and magazines written for boys and girls. Girls' stories tended to be domestic and to focus on family life, whereas boys' stories were more about adventures.

Science, philosophy, and discovery
The Victorian era was an important time for the development of science and the Victorians had a mission to describe and classify the entire natural world. Much of this writing does not rise to the level of being regarded as literature but one book in particular, Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species, remains famous. The theory of evolution contained within the work challenged many of the ideas the Victorians had about themselves and their place in the world. Although it took a long time to be widely accepted, it would dramatically change subsequent thoughts and literature. Much of the work of popularizing Darwin's theories was done by his younger contemporary Thomas Henry Huxley, who wrote widely on the subject.

A number of other non-fiction works of the era made their mark on the literature of the period. The philosophical writings of John Stuart Mill covered logic, economics, liberty and utilitarianism. The large and influential histories of Thomas Carlyle, The French Revolution: A History (1837), and On Heroes, Hero-Worship, & the Heroic in History (1841) permeated political thought at the time. The writings of Thomas Babington Macaulay on English history helped codify the Whig narrative that dominated the historiography for many years. John Ruskin wrote a number of highly influential works on art and the history of art and championed such contemporary figures as J. M. W. Turner and the Pre-Raphaelites. The religious writer John Henry Newman's Oxford Movement aroused intense debate within the Church of England, exacerbated by Newman's own conversion to Catholicism, which he wrote about in his autobiography Apologia Pro Vita Sua.

A number of monumental references works were published in this era, most notably the Oxford English Dictionary which would eventually become the most important historical dictionary of the English language. Also published during the later Victorian era was the Dictionary of National Biography and the ninth edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica.

Nature writing
In the United States, Henry David Thoreau's works and Susan Fenimore Cooper's Rural Hours (1850) were canonical influences on Victorian nature writing. In the UK, Philip Gosse and Sarah Bowdich Lee were two of the most popular nature writers in the early part of the Victorian era. The Illustrated London News, founded in 1842, was the world's first illustrated weekly newspaper and often published articles and illustrations dealing with nature; in the second half of the 19th century, books, articles, and illustrations on nature became widespread and popular among an increasingly urbanized reading public.

Supernatural and fantastic literature
The old Gothic tales that came out of the late 19th century are the first examples of the genre of fantasy fiction. These tales often centered on larger-than-life characters such as Sherlock Holmes, famous detective of the times, Sexton Blake, and other fictional characters of the era, such as Dracula, Edward Hyde, The Invisible Man, and many other fictional characters who often had exotic enemies to foil. Spanning the 18th and 19th centuries, there was a particular type of story-writing known as gothic. Gothic literature combines romance and horror in an attempt to thrill and terrify the reader. Possible features in a gothic novel are foreign monsters, ghosts, curses, hidden rooms, and witchcraft. Gothic tales usually take place in locations such as castles, monasteries, and cemeteries, although the gothic monsters sometimes cross over into the real world, making appearances in cities such as London.

The influence of Victorian literature

Writers from the United States and the British colonies of Australia, New Zealand, and Canada were influenced by the literature of Britain and are often classed as a part of Victorian literature, although they were gradually developing their own distinctive voices. Victorian writers of Canadian literature include Grant Allen, Susanna Moodie and Catherine Parr Traill. Australian literature has the poets Adam Lindsay Gordon and Banjo Paterson, who wrote Waltzing Matilda, and New Zealand literature includes Thomas Bracken and Frederick Edward Maning. From the sphere of literature of the United States during this time are some of the country's greats including: Emily Dickinson, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr., Henry James, Herman Melville, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Henry David Thoreau, Mark Twain and Walt Whitman.

The problem with the classification of "Victorian literature" is the great difference between the early works of the period and the later works which had more in common with the writers of the Edwardian period and many writers straddle this divide. People such as Arthur Conan Doyle, Rudyard Kipling, H. G. Wells, Bram Stoker, H. Rider Haggard, Jerome K. Jerome and Joseph Conrad all wrote some of their important works during Victoria's reign but the sensibility of their writing is frequently regarded as Edwardian.

Other Victorian writers

 * Samuel Butler (1835–1902)
 * Arthur Hugh Clough (1819–1861)
 * Wilkie Collins (1824–1889)
 * A. E. Housman (1859–1936)
 * William Henry Giles Kingston (1814–1880)
 * Letitia Elizabeth Landon (1802–1838)
 * Mary Louisa Molesworth (1839–1921)
 * R. D. Blackmore (1825 – 1900)
 * George Moore (1852–1933)
 * Walter Pater (1839–1894)
 * Coventry Patmore (1823–1896)
 * John Ruskin (1819–1900)
 * John Millington Synge (1871–1909)
 * Charlotte Mary Yonge (1823–1901)
 * Arthur Conan Doyle (1859–1930)

title: Victorian literature


text:
User:Lizardking85

Lizardking85
I have not done anything on wikipedia but soon I will learn how to do everything and then I just may start doing things. One thing for sure I plan on redoing is theJim Morrison page, because it is full of common misconceptions of him. By the way Jim Morrison was not a hippie.

My Contributions
Jim Morrison

title: User:Lizardking85


text:
Talk:Terri Schiavo case/Mediation

Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page were archived. Please see the following links for information related to the primary discussion:

 * Talk:Terri Schiavo case/Mediation/Archive 1 (17 June 2005 to 28 June 2005): some initial discussions, findings of court, Gordon's solution, Gordon's links, Poor Ed, First day round up, second day, framing, NCdave and the NPOV tag, time to deal with the bully, for as long as he shall live, the Schindlers as per se POV, crying witch, crying wolf
 * Talk:Terri Schiavo case/Mediation/Archive 2 (29 June 2005 to 6 July 2005): What about Dave? Commentary for recently added Terry's parents vs. Terry's husband section. A good example. Inter-contributor relations
 * Talk:Terri Schiavo case/Mediation/Archive 3 (6 July 2005 to end of discussion)

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title: Talk:Terri Schiavo case/Mediation


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User talk:ZachsMind

Previously on ZachsMind

Feel free to drop me a line. =)

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Article you contribute to nominated for deletion
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Halloween_songs --164.107.222.23 17:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

 * This is precisely why I rarely contribute to Wikipedia anymore. ZachsMind 08:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

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