text:
Talk:Ted Kennedy/Archive 1

Kennedy Compound
Please include photos of the kennedy compound on that page. include multiple photos, as many people are curious about the estate.

Driving Record
About "Ted Kennedy's Driving Record", the source cited is possibly biased, and I detect a hint of POV from that segment. Does anyone object to removing it (or at least, cleaning it up so it looks more encyclopedic)? --Kukuman 02:44, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * There has to be a better source for that information than a book titled "Senatorial Privelege" (for example, almost any semi-NPOV biography of Ted Kennedy). As far as length, I think it's fine, but that the "Chappaquiddick" section along with "Ted Kennedy's Driving Record" is longer than the rest of the article is somewhat POV in itself. If someone just wanted to flesh out the rest of the article so the Chappaquiddick was a much smaller portion of the article, I think that would take care of any POV issues. Yeah Ted Kennedy is rather notorious for his driving record, but that's hardly all he's done in his entire life. --AsianAstronaut 19:11, 2004 Aug 21 (UTC)

 * I just fleshed it out. I didn't remove anything I couldn't verify was wrong; I added details that mitigate the bias somewhat.  The driving-record stuff seems like unnecessary detail, but it does inform the conjecture being made, so I left it in because I couldn't delete the conjecture without knowing that someone was just going to plug it back in again.  The whole Chappaquiddick section seems over-long, but as it's a major portion of what forms Kennedy's public image, and it's a complicated story, it deserves treatment proportional to those factors rather than on its dominance of the article's word count.  Blair P. Houghton 21:37, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I've moved in a bunch of duplicated material from the Chappaquiddick Island page and left that as a node describing the Island, with a reference to the Ted-Kennedy specific data here. I have also moved Jmabel's additions that prefaced the facts of the accident with "according to Kennedy" etc. primarily because they were stilted, secondarily because most of the facts throughout the accident, rescue attempts, the night following, and the trial and grand jury investigation, is a suspect claim, and we'd have to put such parentheticals all over the section.  And really, all over most of the Wikipedia, for that matter.  I've added the fact that people believe Kennedy may have lied about his actions in a spot where it makes more sense, literarily.  I hope this is okay with you, Jmabel.  We'll NPOV this yet.  Blair P. Houghton 03:53, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's not OK with me. I think there needs to be a distinction between the generally unquestioned facts (he drove off the bridge, Kopechne was with him, she drowned, he made a lot of phone calls, etc.) and the very two important things for which we have only his word: that heading toward the beach was unintentional and that he dived repeatedly trying to save her. Understand, I have no partisan agenda here -- I generally like his politics -- but I think we need to give the same scrutiny to this as we would to any criminal matter where the defendant was the only living witness and the court made no determination of facts. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:25, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * Kicked it up a notch. It's now explicit what is disputed because it is Kennedy's sole word, and the rest is presumed factual because it's implicit that more than one person knew about it.  I also knocked out that driving-record stuff:  I found a web link (a conspiracy site) admitting that while the first license search turned up the expiration of his license in Feb '69, a subsequent investigation discovered documents that had been lost (sorry, "lost"), that showed his license had been properly renewed.  The conjecture about "negligent homicide" and the inclusion of the rest of the DMV dross depended from that, so it's just one more allegation to be mentioned here and left to those who might search for detail elsewhere.  Blair P. Houghton 06:31, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Aha! Found it:  near the bottom is the description of the license dance. That was bugging me.  Blair P. Houghton 06:43, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, this is fine. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:24, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)

Why is this at Edward Kennedy instead of at Teddy or Ted Kennedy? Wikipedia policy is most common name. RickK 06:10, Sep 6, 2004 (UTC)

Will wait a couple more days -- if nobody gives us an argument why it should stay here, I'm going to move it to Ted Kennedy. RickK 00:18, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)

 * Most encyclopedias and news sources (in first cite), including The Almanac of American Politics, use Edward Kennedy. I know that Wikipedia is not "most encyclopedias," but I thought I would put that out there. However, I have no objection to the article being at Ted Kennedy, especially since that is the lingua franca for referring to him, and it's how he refers to himself. ffirehorse 04:07, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Since the word "liberal" is sometimes seen as a negative, should it remain? Not only should it remain, it should be be augmented with extreme leftwing liberal whacko. You do a consistent disservice to conservatives by consistently painting them as extremists, if only to foster your left-leaning agendae, so why not be consistent and quit painting these neo-socialists with an undeserving degree of moderation.

Also, since there is an external link to Kennedy's driving record, I feel that whole section can be deleted in this article.

The word "liberal" is NOT a negative. Let's not delete it just because some people like to use it that way. RickK 00:18, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)

Kennedy is a liberal; I doubt Kennedy himself would disagree with that designation, and in fact would probably consider it a badge of honor. I agree that it should remain. ffirehorse 04:07, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * No, he's not. Barry Goldwater, Ludwig von Mises, Ayn Rand, Harry Browne, Friedrich von Hayek, Murray Rothbard, and David Friedman are liberals.  Kennedy is a socialist, which is indeed a VERY bad thing to be. [unsigned, posted February 25, 2004 by Kmweber]
 * Thank you for the reminder that your edits should all be checked very closely for POV and Humpty Dumptyism. -- Jmabel | Talk 04:35, Feb 26, 2005 (UTC)

He became notorious for running red lights while in law school? Is this true? People around the country were aware of some rich law student who was always running red lights? Acsenray 19:35, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Murdered?
"After his brothers John and Robert were murdered (in 1963 and 1968, respectively), he took on the role of surrogate father for 13 more children."

I always thought heads of state could get "assassinated," not murdered. Correct me if I'm wrong. - (unsigned)

 * All assasinations are murders. Sirhan Sirhan was convicted of murder in the first-degree, not assassination. - Nunh-huh 04:32, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes, the legal charge is indeed "murder," but typically when you refer to the murder of a head of state, a politician, or even of an individual of notable fame, "assassinated" is the more accepted terminology

Gay Communist?
I am not too familiar with Ted Kennedy, but would suspect that he is neither gay nor a communist. - (unsigned)

 * And you would be correct on both counts. Neither is he a tortoise nor a household appliance. The article doesn't say he is any of these things, so why the remark? -- Jmabel | Talk 01:43, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

 * Of course it doesn't after you edited it. Much better now...

TK and Alcohol
I agree that it's not a top-line item; but my bigger problem is, is it alcoholism? Yeah, he's a big drinker, but there's a difference between partying and being dependent (I've tried both, and discovered I'm not alcohol-dependent, I'm just an alcohol-savant). He probably has an alcohol abuse problem, but unless someone can point to an alcohol dependency the word alcoholism is probably inappropriate. His drinking is mentioned in other contexts, but not necessarily as a lifelong character point, so we'll probably revisit this one again. I'm also probably going to go fix-up the alcoholism page, because it doesn't distinguish between abuse and dependency properly, and it's a significant distinction. Blair P. Houghton 22:57, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I gather that Kennedy no longer drinks heavily, and I don't think he had to go through treatment to stop, so "alcoholism" seems an odd choice of word. But let's face it, it probably wasn't a good faith edit, putting material like that in the lead paragraph. I think mention of his drinking somewhere in the article would be OK (including mention that it seems to be in the past). I remember hearing a story that some Republican senator (maybe Bill Frist, who is a doctor?) was actually quite influential on his stopping drinking heavily, basically on a health basis. If that anecdote can be substantiated, it probably belongs in the article. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:24, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)

Diver down
if the drowned/suffocated controversy added anything of substance to the story in this context, I'd surely have included it myself. It's a detail for another forum. A bio page just isn't appropriate to become a case-file. I say the cleo o'donnell quote stays, though it'd be really cool if there was a cogent attribution of it; it seems it's coming from someone's book, and there might be info on its provenance somewhere. Blair P. Houghton 05:36, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Depth of water
There is website YTedK which has a photo of a man sitting on top of Kennedy's car with his body out of the water from the waist up.That would seem to reconfirm the six feet deep opinion. However the body of water there, although referred to as a "pond," is salt water and therefore would be subject to tidal fluctuations. A person would need to have the tidal charts for that period, know the time the photo was taken(easy), and know when the car entered the water. There is a dispute as to the time frame of the accident and Senator Kennedy was not exactly forthcoming about the whole episode.

I had to add the "six feet of water" to the article again. Besides the Time magazine article from November 1979, I can cite other sources that all agree that it was six feet of water. The FBI report entitled "The Perjury of Edward Kennedy" states that the car was six feet underwater. John Farrer, the scuba diver, guessed that the car was six to seven feet underwater. And from Ted Kennedy in his testimony he states that he waded to the car and that he could stand next to the car. Additionally, he stated that while holding onto the car when trying to save Mary Jo, the water reached up to some point on his body (the exact point is not detailed in the report). Since he is slightly taller than six feet tall, all his descriptions of the depth of water would indicate about six feet of water.Lokifer 00:31, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

A car six feet under water would be in more than six feet of water, but I suspect somewhere there's a linguistic problem and it was in six feet of water. I also find it odd that there's an FBI report called "The Perjury of Edward Kennedy." Google doesn't mention it anywhere; is there a link? Blair P. Houghton 00:48, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Sorry. You're correct that it's a linguistic problem, because the water was six feet deep where the car was. As for the FBI report, it can be found here .Lokifer 02:34, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

According to that link, it is not entitled "The Perjury of Edward Kennedy". Is there some other site you are getting all of this stuff off of? If so, scholarly honesty means you should acknowledge your actual sources. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:51, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

The link brings you to a page that has the FBI files. It's split into two parts. If one has enough common sense to read what the site says and click on the links, one would find that the testimony is included in the PDFs. The testimony is part of a bigger file (not a computer file but a report, since I have to baby talk you through the steps) called "The Perjury of Edward Kennedy". This report is split between the two links. Now do I need to find an audio version of it to help you?Lokifer 02:59, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * It's not called that. The PDFs are a collection of FBI documents.  Among them is one crackpot's disingenuous manipulation of Kennedy's testimony.  One section of which is about perjury, but the depth estimate is in the "anomalies" section.  A page number would have been a hell of a lot more helpful, here.  Patterson makes a point of screwing up the operation of the Earth's tides, and then repeats that error when citing Farrar's "6 to 7 feet" testimony.  The tide was running out, according to everyone but Patterson, and the water would have been deeper than at a low tide.  I don't think we have any idea how deep it was.  It was at the very least 6 feet, but only using Patterson's illogic.  It could have been quite a bit deeper.  I think Hoover's agents were shaking their heads as they punched holes in this junk and added it to the file. Blair P. Houghton 05:41, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

No. I'll stick to calling you " condescending condescending" because the word that first came to mind would probably get me banned. You said it was the title < and this PDF loads very slowly. >. Once I looked and found a different title, I didn't go further. I don't usually bother eating a whole egg when the first bite tastes bad. -- Jmabel | Talk 03:31, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to agree or disagree with you on whether I am "consescending", but unforunately I have no idea what that word means. I'd hate to see the problems that some people would have if I used a source that would involve a trip to the library and the use of the Dewey decimal system.Lokifer 03:46, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Unlike many wikipedians, I do that a lot. But it's not like this article is a high priority for me, or an area of research. (& A title buried 20 pages into a document usually means a reference should indicate a page number.) -- Jmabel | Talk 03:54, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

PDF loads slow. Title buried 20 pages into a group of documents. Sounds like excuses to me. Besides, my excuse for not listing the pages is the burden of the number of pages in the document and the slow PDF file.Lokifer 04:47, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Boy, for a person who made fun of me for a typo, that's a pretty incomprehensible paragraph. Can we get back to the facts of the matter? The document doesn't seem to have been generated by the FBI, just filed by them someplace. Do you agree? -- Jmabel | Talk 06:11, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

Since you got lost finding the files, I shouldn't be surprised that you don't understand sarcasm. Are you denying that the testimony is from Kennedy? Are you denying that he said both things I stated above? Are you in fact denying that Farrer's opinion about the depth of the water? How about the Time magazine article that places it at 6 feet also? Have you produced an impeccable source that cites a deeper depth where the car was located?Lokifer 06:39, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Hello! Like I said, this is not my area of research. Also, I have no particular views of any sort on Ted Kennedy's behavior at Chappaquiddick other than the fact that he wasn't very forthcoming and sure took his time about calling the police. I'm not looking for sources. I was here trying to be cooperative and help sort out a sticky topic, until you started insulting me. Frankly, at this point I have no interest in cooperating with you on this (or any other article). -- Jmabel | Talk 07:04, Jan 10, 2005 (UTC)

What sticky topic? People keep removing or changing the depth of the water. I have supplied a few sources about the depth of the pond where the car was located--something no one else has done. I then get criticized for supplying a link to Time Magazine because it's part of their archive that is for premium members and the FIOA FBI files because I didn't give the exact links to the two files. I can add more sources, but I'm pretty sure it will be criticized. Let the criticism begin: Edgartown Police Chief Dominick Arena, the man who arrested Ted Kennedy, has in his report that the water was only six feet deep. Lokifer 07:25, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

BTW, my count so far has five sources stating that it was six feet of water. 1) Ted Kennedy states in his testimony that when he tried to save Mary Jo, he could stand next to the car...making it about six feet deep. 2) Ted Kennedy states that he had to hold on to the car because of the current and indicates (the source doesn't show where exactly he indictates) where the water level is at...making it around six feet, with a liberal area of about one foot above or below his height. 3) The scuba diver that removed Mary Jo from the car then the car from the pond states that the water was about six or seven feet deep. 4) Edgartown Police Chief Dominick Arena's police report and a diagram of the accident has it stated that the water was six feet deep. 5) An article in Time Magazine from 1979, ten years after the incident, has it stated that the water level was six feet deep. By my count, that's four sources from 1969, including two from Kennedy himself.Lokifer 07:37, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I'm not picking on you, Loki. All those criticisms are valid. You did imply it was an FBI report when it was a crackpot rant the FBI kept because it keeps everything (did you also see the letter from Mary Jo Kopechne, return-addressed from her grave? I can't imagine the whole disk drives of flamage the FBI has to have around for Clinton and Bush... I can imagine they have a few dozen of my own letters to the White House...). Part of their job is investigating the crackpots. They probably have a a file on Patterson with a duplicate and a cross-reference. (N.B.: the FBI can claim prior art if anyone tries to patent the Wikipedia; they just did it by hand for a hundred years). At any rate, if you don't agree that I've shown that the water was almost certainly more than six feet deep, that six feet is a minimum that was almost certainly not reached when Kennedy crashed the car or was in the water himself, then maybe we can add a para. about the estimation. Although I'm thinking of creating a whole new article for the incident and just templating the official story into both the Mary Jo and Ted articles, and giving it a couple of sandboxes, one for pro-Ted POV rants, and one for anti-Ted POV rants. I really think their bio pages are no place for a case file. Blair P. Houghton 18:16, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Ah, sorry about my revision earlier, then -- there was no depth listed, and I gave four feet the benefit of the doubt as being accurate since a) I've heard the value before in media and b) previous values were omitted -- though I should've known better... EggplantWizard 23:26, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I fail to see why anyone would defend Senator Kennedy. saltforkgunman

Gun crack
Ollie, the original was POV, but I recast it long ago as an NPOV quotation and explanation of the statement. Occasionally an anon poster change it to "is used correctly" in there, and POV it up again, but we revert those. It's typical of the gun-nut rhetoric, and the rhetoric against Kennedy. He's actually proud that goons like these target him. I don't mind illustrating their ignorance. Blair P. Houghton 21:59, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

There needs to be a balanced ,factual account of this piece of craps efforts to subvert the Constitution and infringe on our freedom to own and use guns.The page needs to be edited to reflect that Kennedy is a gun control fanatic.How can this article be complete ,and balanced when there is no mention of the fact that this person has worked tirelessly to destroy out Constitutionally protected rights?Saltforkgunman 03:54, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Democratic Icon
Ollieplatt wants to remove the following section of the article because he/she claims it is redundant and POV.

 * Since his presidential bid, Kennedy has become the dean of the liberal wing of the Democratic party. He is very proud of the fact that the right wing of American politics continue to warn their supporters about his new policies. He is one of the most recognizable and influential members of the party. In 2004 he supported the failed presidential bid of his fellow Massachussets Senator, John Kerry, speaking for Kerry multiple times.

I disagree: I don't think it is redundant. I've reverted the article but if Ollieplatt reverts the article again, I won't revert it back. Aoi

However, do you think this section of the article should be kept? 15:19, 18 Jan 2005 Aoi

 * Keep. We've been through all this.  Negative facts can be presented in an NPOV way.  Oh, and Ollie? Look up infer. Blair P. Houghton 03:16, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

This article has all the structural integrity of Bart's treehouse. The most important and current things should be at the top. As for that paragraph, it has many problems:
 * 1) the "dean of the liberal wing" - what is that exactly?
 * 2) "he is very proud" - hello? how would we know what he's proud about? is it encyclopedic anyway?
 * 3) "speaking for Kerry multiple times", my understanding is that he was very involved, including in strategy, staffing, fundraising not just speeches.

Ted Kennedy's article is riddled with liberal POV, I have tried to change it for the better but am outnumbered by partisans. Blair, can I suggest a calmer more polite tone, it will get you further, as I have discovered. Ollieplatt 06:41, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

1. "The dean of the liberal wing" is a figure of speech indicating he leads the bloc. 2. He's stated he's very proud. 3. If you have more info on his involvement with Kerry's campaign, by all means add it to that section. The previous versions had the same facts as the current one, but were cast to pretend that he buried Kerry.

This article was far more POV-infected after you edited it. He's a liberal, so there will be facts indicating such, including--horrors--things he's done that are good. How scandalous.

I've seen several examples of your tone tonight, Ollie, both in your edits and your comments to other people. Your questioning mine is pure sophistry. Blair P. Houghton 06:54, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Ollieplatt, could you please explain how Ted Kennedy being a democratic icon and his views on abortion are explained in the first paragraph when all the first paragraph really says is that he is a "leading liberal politician?" Aoi 08:00, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Birthplace
Someone recently, anonymously, and without citation changed this from Brookline to Boston. I have no idea which is accurate; does someone have a citation? -- Jmabel | Talk 19:02, Feb 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * Is the question "Was Brookline part of Boston in 1932?" or is it "Was Ted Kennedy born in Brookline or Boston?" or Boise, for that matter. I don't know. Blair P. Houghton 21:10, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Move to Edward Kennedy Vote Please
I would like to make this move for a few reasons:
 * 1) His name is Edward Kennedy.
 * 2) There are more articles linking to Edward Kennedy than there are linking to Ted Kennedy.
 * 3) I would like to make Ted Kennedy into a disambiguation that would point to both Edward Kennedy and Ted Kennedy (hockey player).
 * 4) Ted Kennedy (hockey player) was a hall of fame professional hockey player.
 * 5) The article originally was at Edward Kennedy and was moved to Ted Kennedy September 8, 2004.
 * I oppose for the following reasons:
 * He is almost universally known as "Ted" or "Teddy". I've rarely heard him called "Edward Kennedy"; in fact, I have more often heard the formal "Edward M. Kennedy".
 * If, indeed, there are more articles linking to Edward Kennedy, I can only call that bizarre, and I suspect it is the result of some one editor going through and making them so.
 * Ted Kennedy (hockey player) is not a figure of comparable importance. We can easily implement a page Ted Kennedy (disambiguation).

Vote closed, see below

 * Add #Support or #Oppose to the appropriate section followed by an optional one sentence explanation and sign your vote with ~. To comment, use #: to avoid messing up the numbering.

Support

 * 1) Support Kevin Rector (talk) 03:39, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) Support for the reasons stated. Remes 05:54, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Vote closed, see below

Oppose

 * 1) Oppose Jmabel | Talk 07:14, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) Usually we attempt to have some conversation on talk and reach and consensus before resorting to a poll, but I nevertheless don't think renaming the page is a necessary or a good idea. Our general practice is to use the most common version of a person's name -- and Sen. Kennedy is far more often referred to as Ted than Edward. RadicalSubversiv E 07:27, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) "Ted" is the most common version of his name. Zzyzx11 | Talk 21:55, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 4) Oppose This is an encyclopedia, not a county recorder's office. We're not bound by law to use his proper name. Blair P. Houghton 00:27, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 5) Oppose: We don't have Jimmy Carter at James, or Dick Cheney at Richard. We use the name most commonly known and used. Ted (or even Teddy) Kennedy is more used than Edward. Jonathunder 18:08, 2005 Apr 14 (UTC)

Vote closed, see below

Comments

 * On Google, "Ted Kennedy" gets about twice as many hits as "Edward Kennedy"; on Google News, however, the ratios are swapped. Meelar (talk) 07:31, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * A Lexis-News news search for the last six months turns up many times more Ted Kennedys. RadicalSubversiv E 07:38, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * How many of those are for the hockey player though? -- [[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|20px]] Earl Andrew - talk 15:42, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Three, out of more than a thousand. RadicalSubversiv E 04:09, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Here's my fundamental point. For those who say that "Ted Kennedy (hockey player) is not a figure of comparable importance" I would have to ask, to whom? For Americans, "rich people" watchers, and political junkies no doubt the Senator is far more notable. For Canadians and hockey fans the hockey player may be of more note. The point is they are both extremely notable people. I want to point out again, that the hockey player is not some scrub who played a few games in the NHL, this is one of the all time greats, a hall of famer, a legend. Furthermore, my suggestion is a compromise. By making this page into a disambiguation page regardless of which Ted Kennedy you're looking for you can find him through here. Plus, if you're looking for the senator you might just say, "well gee whiz, I didn't know there was also a hall of fame hockey player by that name, I guess you learn something everyday". Finally, I say again, the Senator was originally at Edward Kennedy and was moved to Ted Kennedy without any discussion with very little discussion. Kevin Rector (talk) 13:31, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Senator Kennedy is from a leading political family, senior senator from Massachusetts, brother of an assassinated president and an assassinated presidential hopeful, onetime presidential contender in his own right, and de facto spokesperson for a wing of his party? If he were named Wayne Gretzke or Bobby Hull, you'd still have a point. But he isn't. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:03, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * I propose another option whereas this page is moved to Ted Kennedy (politician) and a disambiguation page will be at Ted Kennedy. -- [[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|20px]] Earl Andrew - talk 15:43, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I can live with that too... my main goal is to have Ted Kennedy as a disambiguation. Kevin Rector (talk) 15:59, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * This is unnecessary -- readers are much more likely to be looking for this Ted Kennedy, so a simple disambiguation notice at the top of the article will suffice. RadicalSubversiv E 04:09, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, not a county recorder's office. Blair P. Houghton 00:27, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * What does that mean? (sorry logged out when I asked that) Kevin Rector (talk) 00:58, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * It means we can use the name Ted Kennedy uses; we're not bound by law to use his proper name. Blair P. Houghton 01:42, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok. But that's not the main reason I want to change it, the main reason I want to change it is to make this into a disambiguation that points to both the senator and the hall of fame hockey player. Kevin Rector (talk) 01:51, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 18:25, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

New Picture
That picture barely looks like Senator Kennedy--on the biographical directory there's a very recent picture I think should be used.

title: Talk:Ted Kennedy/Archive 1


text:
User talk:Laundrypowder

Welcome!

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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Laundrypowder


text:
The Prophecy

The Prophecy is a 1995 American fantasy thriller horror film starring Christopher Walken, Elias Koteas, Virginia Madsen, Eric Stoltz, and Viggo Mortensen. It was written and directed by Gregory Widen in his feature directorial debut, and is the first film of The Prophecy series. The film tells the story of the Archangel Gabriel (Walken) and his search for an evil soul on Earth, and a police detective (Koteas) who unknowingly becomes caught in the middle of an angelic civil war. It was followed by four sequels.

Plot
Thomas Dagget, a Catholic seminary student, loses his faith when he sees visions of a war between angels. Years later, Thomas is a detective with the Los Angeles Police Department. Two angels fall to Earth. Simon briefly enters Thomas' home and warns him of coming events, while Uziel, a lieutenant of the Archangel Gabriel, is killed in an altercation with Simon. Investigating the disturbance, Thomas finds in Simon's apartment the obituary of recently deceased Korean War veteran Colonel Arnold Hawthorne (who was being investigated for war crimes) and a thesis about angels which Thomas himself wrote in seminary. Meanwhile, in Chimney Rock, Arizona, Simon finds Hawthorne awaiting burial and sucks his soul out of his body.

The medical examiner informs Thomas that Uziel's body has no eyes, hermaphroditism, and the blood chemistry of an aborted fetus. His personal effects include an ancient Bible, with an expanded Book of Revelation that describes a second war in Heaven and prophecy that a "dark soul" will be found on Earth and used as a weapon.

Gabriel arrives on Earth. Needing a human helper, Gabriel catches a disappointed Jerry, a suicide, in the moment of his death. Jerry retrieves Uziel's belongings from the police station while Gabriel destroys Uziel's body in the morgue. Finding Hawthorne's obituary, Gabriel and Jerry head for Chimney Rock. Before Gabriel arrives, at the local reservation school Simon hides Hawthorne's soul in a little Native American girl, Mary, who immediately falls ill and is cared for by her teacher, Katherine.

After finding the burnt remains of what was once Uziel's body in the morgue, Thomas hurries to Chimney Rock. When Gabriel realizes Hawthorne's soul is missing, he confronts Simon. Hawthorne's soul will tip the balance to whichever side possesses it, and a win for the rebellious angels would make Heaven like Hell with Earth in its thrall. Gabriel tortures Simon, but he refuses to reveal its location, so Gabriel kills him. Mary shows signs of possession by Hawthorne, recounting an incident from Hawthorne's harrowing war experiences in first-person perspective. Meanwhile, Thomas examines Simon's remains and questions Katherine. In Hawthorne's home, he finds evidence of war crimes. Thomas visits a church to reflect in and is shaken by a verbal confrontation with Gabriel.

At school, Katherine finds Gabriel questioning the children. After he leaves, she rushes to Mary's home and finds Thomas. As Mary's condition worsens, Katherine takes Thomas to an abandoned mine where she had seen Gabriel. They find angelic script and experience together a terrible vision of the angelic war. Returning to Mary, they find Gabriel and Jerry. Thomas kills Jerry, while Katherine distracts Gabriel when her wild gunshot misses him and blows up Mary's trailer home. They take Mary to a Native American site to be exorcised. In a hospital, Gabriel recruits a new unwilling assistant, Rachael, just as she dies of a terminal illness.

Lucifer confronts Katherine and tells her that "other angels" have taken up this war against mankind, and since then, no human souls have been able to enter Heaven. He knows Gabriel plans to use Hawthorne's soul to overthrow the obedient angels. He also knows that if Gabriel wins the war under his influence Heaven will ultimately devolve into another Hell, which Lucifer considers "one Hell too many". Lucifer then appears to Thomas and advises him to use Gabriel's lack of faith against him. When Gabriel arrives and attempts to disrupt the exorcism ritual, Thomas kills Rachael, and he and Katherine fight Gabriel. Gabriel defeats them and moves to kill Katherine.

Lucifer appears, encouraging the Natives to complete the exorcism. Lucifer confronts Gabriel, telling him that his war is based upon arrogance, which is evil, making it Lucifer's territory. Lucifer tells Gabriel he needs to go home and rips out his heart. Simultaneously Mary expels Hawthorne's soul. The "enemy ghost" starts to attack Thomas and Katherine, but a bright light from Heaven appears and destroys it. Lucifer asks Thomas and Katherine to "come home" with him, but they refuse. Lucifer drags Gabriel to Hell. As morning comes, Thomas comments on the nature of faith and what it means to truly be human.

Cast

 * Christopher Walken as Gabriel
 * Elias Koteas as Thomas Dagget
 * Virginia Madsen as Katherine
 * Eric Stoltz as Simon
 * Viggo Mortensen as Lucifer
 * Amanda Plummer as Rachael
 * Moriah Shining Dove Snyder as Mary
 * Adam Goldberg as Jerry
 * Steve Hytner as Joseph
 * J.C. Quinn as Burrows
 * Jeff Cadiente as Uziel
 * Patrick McAllister as Col. Hawthorne
 * Albert Nelson

Production
Gregory Widen wrote the film, also known as Daemons and God's Army during development, with his interest being in showing a darker side of angels much like how they were portrayed in the Old Testament. With The Prophecy, Widen wanted to analyze the underlying characteristics of angels in contrast to more benevolent depictions where they're in service of mankind and instead look at them as more complicated characters and what motivates their dark deeds like those in the Old Testament. When writing the film's depiction of Gabriel, Widen had written the role with Christopher Walken in mind and Walken ended up being the first one to sign on. During production a lightning storm with 120 mile per hour winds destroyed an Indian village set on a cliff. Shooting on the film was done from late September to early November 1993.

Release
Following several release delays, The Prophecy was given its theatrical release in the United States September 1, 1995. The film's home media release was March 12, 1996.

Reception
Rotten Tomatoes, a review aggregator, reports that 46% of 24 surveyed critics gave the film a positive review; the average rating is 5.1/10. The critical consensus reads: "The Prophecy has its moments, but any fantasy thriller starring Christopher Walken as a murderous angel should be a good deal more engaging than this". Eric Hansen of Variety called it "daring and unique on the one hand, but hard to swallow on the other". Stephen Holden of The New York Times wrote that the film is bad enough to end the recent proliferation of religious thrillers. David Kronke of the Los Angeles Times wrote: "Though Widen proves himself capable enough behind the camera, his script here is simply too loopy for him to render it in any credible fashion". Mick LaSalle of The San Francisco Chronicle wrote that director Widen made a film with some genuinely creepy moments. Owen Gleiberman of Entertainment Weekly rated it D− and described it as "an occult freakshow so inert it seems to have been pasted together out of stock footage".

It has since gone on to become a cult film.

Sequels
The film spawned four direct-to-video sequels: The Prophecy II (1998), The Ascent (2000), Uprising (2005) and Forsaken (2005).

Soundtrack
The film score by David C. Williams was released by Perseverance Records on August 7, 2006. The song "Breakin' Down" by heavy metal band Skid Row plays over the closing credits. Other pop songs featured include "Angel In Black" by Shawn Amos, "Surf N' Turf" by Dennis Michael Tenney, and "Your Best Friend" by Peter Bear. The film also uses classical pieces associated with Christianity such as Franz Schubert's Ave María and the Gregorian chant Gloria, laus et honor performed by The Choir Of Monks Of Saint-Benoit Du Lac.

title: The Prophecy


text:
Bình Tây Market

Binh Tay Market (Chợ Bình Tây) is the Central Market of Cho Lon in District 6, Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. Local Vietnamese refer to it as Chợ Lớn mới, while local Vietnamese-Chinese refer it as 堤岸 - 新街市 "The New Market of Chợ Lớn", and the Chinese other than those living in Vietnam known it only as 堤岸 (Dī'àn, or literally, "embankment").

"The Old Market" did exist in Cho Lon, its location is now the site of Cho Lon Post Office in District 5. It was destroyed in a raging fire (exact time unknown) and soon after, "The New Market" was built. Although it was used extensively before the fire, local people rarely mention about this lost market except the elderly, or ones who has lived nearby long enough to know the history of this old market.

Geography
Binh Tay Market is sitting on Thap Muoi Street (Vietnamese: Đường Tháp Mười), a four street-block span connecting Confucius Street (Vietnamese: Đường Khổng Tử - old French: Quai de Gaudot) to the North, and Hau Giang Street (Vietnamese: Đường Hậu Giang) to the South, on the edge of District 6. It is the largest marketplace before the road leading West to Mien Tay of Vietnam, via a very important ground transportation hub named Xa Cảng Miền Tây. Despite many wars over the years, Binh Tay Market has always been a major business hub not only for the local Vietnamese and Chinese, but also for the Vietnamese farmers trading daily goods coming from all directions of South Vietnam.

Little-known history
Bình Tây Market was built, or at least heavily financially supported, by a Chinese businessman named Guo Tan (郭琰) better known as Quách Đàm, (1863–1927), originally hailing from Chaozhou in Guangdong. Quách Đàm operated his businesses under the trade name of Thông Hiệp, but he was best known by his nickname "Handicapped Thông" among local Chinese. He started out very poor, making a living by recycling garbage and other used material; later, he began to enter into other types of businesses, in which he earned his fortune. There used to be a life-size bronze statue of Thông Hiệp standing right in the center of the Bình Tây Market, surrounded by four bronze lions, and four bronze dragons spitting water into the fountain under in which the statue of Thông was standing. The full size statue of Thông was replaced with a smaller glass altar sometime between 1976 and 1980 for unknown reasons. Nowadays, that statue is located in the Fine Art Museum of Ho Chi Minh city. The four bronze lions and dragons are still standing.

title: Bình Tây Market


text:
Rhode Island Route 179

Route 179 is a 3.53 mi state highway in the U.S. state of Rhode Island. Route 179 is a short connector between Route 77 and Route 81 which are the two main roads in Tiverton and Little Compton. The Eastern terminus of Route 179 also serves as the southern terminus for Route 81.

Route description
Route 179 begins at an intersection with Route 77 (Main Road) in the Nonquit Pond area of Tiverton, Rhode Island. Route 179 progresses eastward as East Road through a residential neighborhood until the intersection with Eight Rod Way, where the alignment shifts to the southeast. Curving in several directions, Route 179 enters a busier neighborhood at the intersection with Lake Road. Just after Lake Road, the designation changes alignments at a fork, becoming part of Stone Church Road, instead of East Road, which continues straight towards Route 81. Route 179 turns to the southeast, passing homes and a large field before entering the neighborhood of Adamsville. At the intersection with Colebrook Road in Adamsville, Route 179 turns eastward and changes names once again this time to Main Street. Passing a short residential stretch, Route 179 intersects with Route 81 (Crandall Road), where both Route 179 and Route 81 terminate. Main Street continues eastward a short distance to the Massachusetts state line.

title: Rhode Island Route 179


text:
Al-Aswani

Abu Muhammad Abdallah ibn Ahmad ibn Salim (or ibn Sulaym) al-Aswani (أبو محمد عبد الله ابن احمد ابن سليم الأسواني) was a tenth-century Egyptian diplomat and Shia Muslim dāʿī (missionary) in the service of the Fatimids.

Following the Fatimid conquest of Egypt, he was dispatched to Nubia by the Fatimid governor, Jawhar al-Siqilli. The exact date and duration of his mission are unknown. He was likely sent during Jawhar's rule over Egypt (969–973) before the arrival of Caliph al-Mu'izz to the country in 973, but the work is dedicated to Caliph al-Aziz, who succeeded al-Mu'izz in 975. He left a written record of his mission, the Kitāb Akhbār al-Nūba waʾl-Muḳurra wa ʿAlwa waʾl-Buja waʾl-Nīl ("Book of Reports on Nubia, Makuria, Alodia, the Beja and the Nile"). This is the only surviving eyewitness description of medieval Nubia other than the very brief account in Ibn Ḥawqal.

Jawhar, who had led the Fatimid conquest of Egypt, was eager to establish peaceful relations with the Nubian kingdoms to his south, especially in view of the still shaky foundation of Fatimid rule in Egypt, threatened by revolts and by invasion by the Qarmatians of Bahrayn. The mission also intended to deliver a letter demanding the conversion of the Nubian kings to Islam; while Heinz Halm considers this request a mere symbolic gesture, Jawhar may have been under the impression that the Nubians, who had previously resisted Islamization, might be persuaded to convert to Isma'ilism, the Islamic doctrine espoused by the Fatimids. Jawhar chose as his ambassador Abdallah ibn Ahmad ibn Salim (or Sulaym) from Aswan (the nisbah al-Aswani means "of Aswan") presumably because Aswan lay on Egypt's frontier with Nubia, and so Abdallah could be presumed to have some familiarity with the country. The origin and prior biography of al-Aswani are otherwise entirely unknown.

Al-Aswani travelled through much of Lower Nubia with a large retinue. He celebrated Eid al-Adha with some sixty fellow Muslims. He stayed several months in Dongola, the capital of Makuria. There he persuaded King George II to resume payment of the baqt, an annual tribute the Nubians had rendered to the Muslim rulers of Egypt since the seventh century. He failed, however, to persuade the king to convert to Islam, although he did engage in a debate at court. He also visited the southern kingdom of Alodia and describes its capital, Soba, in the Kitāb Akhbār al-Nūba. He does not appear to have visited the country of the Beja, however, and his descriptions of it are secondhand. Al-Aswani gives a description of the White Nile and Blue Nile and their confluence at Khartoum, remarking on the fact that the waters of the two did not immediately dissolve into one another; al-Aswani thus became the first Egyptian traveller to witness the confluence of the Nile's two major tributaries since the Roman emperor Nero ((r. 50 – 66)) sent two centurions on a similar mission.

The record of al-Aswani's voyage survives only as excerpts in al-Maqrizi (d. 1442) and al-Manufi (d. 1527). According to Halm, the fact that al-Maqrizi, writing in the 15th century, had to refer to al-Aswani's work shows that no such similar journeys were undertaken from Egypt in the meantime. The excerpts of al-Maqrizi are quoted and abridged in Ibn Iyas (d. 1522/4). The original complete work is lost. Historian Yūsuf Faḍl Ḥasan opines that the Kitāb seems to have once circulated relatively widely, since it can be detected as a source in several works, such as that of Abu al-Makarim. Conversely, Halm considers that al-Aswani's work was not cited by earlier authors, indicating that it was never publicly circulated, instead being kept in the palace archives in Cairo for the first centuries of its existence. The Kitāb is still one of the most important sources on medieval Nubia. He describes the geography, history and contemporary political situation of the bilād al-Sūdān. He describes a quite centralized and prosperous Makurian state. Unlike many other Arab writers, he seems favourably disposed to the Christian kingdoms.

title: Al-Aswani


text:
VBC-90

The Renault VBC-90 (Véhicule Blindé de Combat, or "Armoured Combat Vehicle") is a six-wheeled French armoured car carrying a 90mm high-velocity gun mated to a sophisticated fire control computer and ranging system. It was developed primarily for internal security or armed reconnaissance purposes. Modeled after Renault's Véhicule de l'Avant Blindé (VAB) armoured personnel carrier, the VBC-90 was engineered in concert with Saviem and Creusot-Loire. One was also built in prototype form by Argentina under license, where it was known as the Vehículos de Apoyo y Exploración. VBC-90s were available with various chassis configurations resembling both the VAB and the Berliet VXB-170.

Development History
The VBC-90 was developed by Renault and Saviem as a specialized reconnaissance and fire support variant of the Véhicule de l'Avant Blindé. It had a very wide turret ring and was manufactured specifically to carry a large-calibre gun system. At least two prototypes had been completed by 1979 and were initially designated VCS-90. The first two had boat-shaped hulls and glacis plates reminiscent of the VXB-170 and VAB, respectively. They essentially resembled six-wheeled variants of these vehicles, albeit with larger turret rings. The third had a more unique hull and a sloping glacis plate. It was this variant which was eventually accepted for production as the VBC-90.

Unlike the VAB, the VBC was not developed to meet a French Army requirement and was intended solely for export to French military clients overseas. Nevertheless, from 1981, the French government ordered 28 VBC-90s for a single squadron of the Mobile Gendarmerie, as a replacement for the ageing AMX-13 light tanks. The last one was delivered in 1984. VBCs produced by Renault for the Gendarmerie were designated VBC-90G. Another 6 were delivered to Oman between 1984 and 1985 as part of a much larger shipment of VABs for the Royal Omani Guard.

Oman has since announced it will be phasing out its VBC-90s in favor of the much more heavily armed B1 Centauro. The French gendarmerie relegated its VBCs to reserve storage in the early 2000s.

A simplified VBC-90 variant known as the Vehículos de Apoyo y Exploración (VAPE) was developed for Argentina by Renault. It was trialled alongside a much heavier model of the ERC 90 Sagaie offered by Panhard, but neither of the two were adopted by the Argentine Army.

In 2014, Lebanon was lobbying for the purchase of an undisclosed number of VBC-90s. The deal was to be partly financed with military grants from Saudi Arabia but was frozen in 2016 due to tensions between Lebanon and Saudi Arabia.

Specifications
It has a steel hull armoured to protect against small arms fire. It has a crew of three, with the driver sitting at the front of the vehicle with three bullet-proof windows provided for the driver. A GIAT TS 90 turret carries the commander and gunner, and carries an armament of a 90 mm cannon with a co-axial 7.62 mm machine gun. 20 rounds of 90 mm ammunition are carried in the turret, with a further 25 rounds in the hull.

It is powered by a six-cylinder diesel engine mounted at the rear of the hull, driving a 6x6 drive. The vehicle is not amphibious, unlike the VAB on which it was based.

Former operators

 * 🇴🇲 Oman
 * 🇫🇷 France.

Potential operators

 * 🇱🇧 Lebanon

title: VBC-90


text:
Clinical data acquisition

Acquisition or collection of clinical trial data can be achieved through various methods that may include, but are not limited to, any of the following: paper or electronic medical records, paper forms completed at a site, interactive voice response systems, local electronic data capture systems, or central web based systems.

There is arguably no more important document than the instrument that is used to acquire the data from the clinical trial with the exception of the protocol, which specifies the conduct of that clinical trial. The quality of the data collected relies first and foremost on the quality of that instrument. No matter how much time and effort go into conducting the clinical trial, if the correct data points were not collected, a meaningful analysis may not be possible. It follows, therefore, that the design, development and quality assurance of such an instrument must be given the utmost attention.

The ICH guidelines on good clinical practice (GCP) use the term ‘case report form’ (CRF) to refer to these systems. No matter what CRF is utilized, the quality and integrity of the data is of primary importance.

title: Clinical data acquisition


text: User talk:134.161.245.70

title: User talk:134.161.245.70


text:
The Gruffalo

The Gruffalo is a British children's picture book by author Julia Donaldson and illustrated by Axel Scheffler. It tells the story of a mouse taking a walk in the woods and deceiving different predators, including the Gruffalo. The Gruffalo was first published in 1999 in the United Kingdom by Macmillan Children's Books. It is about 700 words long and is written in rhyming couplets featuring repetitive verse. It is an example of a trickster story and was inspired by a Chinese folk tale called "The Fox that Borrows the Terror of a Tiger". The Gruffalo has sold over 13.5 million copies and has won several prizes for children's literature including the Nestlé Smarties Book Prize.

It has been adapted into plays and an Oscar-nominated animated film. The book has inspired a range of merchandise, a commemorative coin, a theme park ride in Chessington World of Adventures, and a series of woodland trails. In 2004, The Gruffalo was followed by a sequel—The Gruffalo's Child—also written by Donaldson and illustrated by Scheffler.

Author and illustrator
Julia Donaldson is an author of children's books, the most famous of which being The Gruffalo. Before writing The Gruffalo, Donaldson had a background in drama and performance. She studied drama at the University of Bristol and then busked in Europe and the United States. She began her career as a writer by writing children's songs for television programmes. In 1993, one of her songs that she sang and performed with her husband—"A Squash and Squeeze", about an elderly lady with a small house —was turned into a book, published by Methuen and illustrated by Axel Scheffler. Scheffler was born and grew up in Germany before moving to the UK to study art. He first worked with Donaldson on A Squash and Squeeze, published in 1993.

Creating the book
In an interview in the book The Way We Write (2006), Donaldson writes that although "It can take months or years for the germination of a book ... writing The Gruffalo probably took two weeks, with all the rewriting". She said that writing the second half of the book was difficult and almost forced her to stop altogether. Donaldson said that she had admired Scheffler's illustrations for A Squash and Squeeze, and when her publisher did not suggest he would also be illustrating The Gruffalo, she sent him the text of the book herself. Scheffler showed the text to Macmillan, who were his publisher at the time and subsequently published the book.

Plot
A mouse walks through a wood and encounters three predators—first a fox, then an owl, and finally a snake. Each of these animals invites the mouse into their home for a meal, the implication being that they intend to eat the mouse. The mouse declines each offer, telling the predators that it plans to dine with a "gruffalo". The mouse then describes the gruffalo's frightening features, such as "terrible tusks, terrible claws, and terrible teeth in his terrible jaws". The mouse tells each predator that the predator is the gruffalo's favourite food. Frightened that the gruffalo might eat them, each animal flees. Convinced the Gruffalo is fictional, the mouse says:

 * Silly old fox/owl/snake, doesn't he know?
 * There's no such thing as a Gruffalo!

After getting rid of the last animal, the mouse is shocked to encounter a real Gruffalo, which has all the features the mouse thought that it was inventing. The Gruffalo threatens to eat the mouse. Instead, the mouse insists that the mouse is the scariest animal in the wood. Laughing, the Gruffalo agrees to follow the mouse. The two walk through the wood, encountering each of the three predators again. Each predator is terrified by the sight of the Gruffalo and escapes to its home, but the Gruffalo believes that they are actually scared of the mouse. Exploiting this, the mouse threatens to eat the Gruffalo in a “Gruffalo crumble”. The Gruffalo flees, leaving the mouse to eat a nut in peace.

Humour
In an article titled "Humour and the locus of control in 'The Gruffalo'", Betsie van der Westhuizen identifies the following types of humour used in The Gruffalo: "humour with regard to the narrative aspects, humour with regard to the poetic aspects, visual humour and humour and the performing arts". She writes that the most common use of humour in the story is incongruity, arising from the sense that "everything is not as it should be". Some examples include the mouse averting the predators and the unusual descriptions of food, such as "owl ice cream" and "scrambled snake". She writes that there are different experiences of humour among different ages of children who read The Gruffalo: three to five year olds will appreciate the elements of surprise and repetition in the story; six to eight year olds will enjoy the rhyme and rhythm of the text and the story's hyperbole. As for visual representations of humour, van der Westhuizen writes that an example occurs when the mouse scares away the snake, accompanied by fragmented images of the imaginary gruffalo's features, then immediately afterwards comes across the real Gruffalo.

Mice often feature as the main character in stories for children, and one key characteristic of the animal in this context is humour. Both Ghassan Fadhil Radhi and van der Westhuizen write that children relate to the character of the mouse who triumphs in difficult situations, along with the humour that is a key element of many mouse stories.

Chinese folk tale
Donaldson has said that the story of The Gruffalo was inspired by a Chinese folk tale known as "The Fox that Borrows the Terror of a Tiger" (狐假虎威).The folk tale is about a hungry tiger who tries to catch a fox. The fox is clever and tells the tiger that God has made the fox king of all animals. Whilst accompanying the fox, the tiger notices that other animals run away in fear. Not realising that they are actually running away from the tiger, the tiger believes that fox is indeed a feared king. Donaldson was originally going to have the beast in her book be a tiger, but was unable to think of rhymes for "tiger" so instead invented a new word—"gruffalo".

The Taiwanese translator of The Gruffalo recommended the book for publication in Taiwanese because he noticed the story bore resemblance to the traditional tale. Teachers have used this translated book to demonstrate a modern retelling of the Chinese folk tale. In an article on the traditional Chinese translation of The Gruffalo in Taiwan, Chen-Wei Yu writes that the "resourcefulness" of the mouse in Donaldson's story represents a Western association with "individual autonomy" and "self-achievement", whereas the fox in the original fable is to be looked down upon because it does not accept its correct place in society nor an individual's obligation to others. This latter interpretation of the story has led the phrase "The Fox that Borrows the Terror of a Tiger" to mean someone who makes use of another person's power for their own gain.

Writing style
The Gruffalo is a short children's story around 700 words long. It is intended to be read aloud as it is written for a target audience of children who do not know or are learning how to read. It is written in rhyming couplets in primarily dactylic tetrameter. This is a relatively uncommon metre, consisting of one stressed syllable followed by two unstressed syllables, for instance: The rhythm of the text is broken at key points in the story. For example, when the mouse announces that he is going to meet the gruffalo "here, by the rocks", the pause on the word "here" lets the reader know the importance of the location and makes them more likely to remember it when the mouse and Gruffalo return there later in the story. The rhythm is broken again after the mouse fools the predators and sees the Gruffalo for the first time, saying "Oh, help! Oh, no! It's a gruffalo".

To create a satisfying rhyming scheme for the story, Donaldson tried a few different names for the creature that would eventually become the Gruffalo. "So I had my plot, but I couldn't get any good couplet, like 'Silly old fox! You ought to know, you really should, / There aren't any tigers in this wood.' Something like that just didn't seem very strong. So then I thought if the mouse were going to meet some made-up creature, it would be much easier for me to write about it. I have just looked at my notes, and see that at first I thought the creature could be a 'snargle' or 'stroog' or 'tiglophant' (I must have been thinking at one stage of having it a cross between a tiger and an elephant). Then I finally thought of the lines, 'Silly old fox! Doesn't he know, / There's no such thing as a gruffalo?' I thought the word had to have three syllables, and end in 'o', and would sound fierce with 'gr' at the beginning, so gruffalo came."

- Julia Donaldson

In Burke's view, the name is "fittingly crafted by the author". The use of the Gr sound at the start of the name evokes negativity, harshness and discomfort, owing to the fact that it is a common consonant cluster in words with that connotation (for example: growl, groan, grumble). The first syllable in the name—gruff—is shared with the other children's literary characters of the Three Billy Goats Gruff. The sound of the word "Gruffalo" is used to emphasise the first time the Gruffalo is seen in the story: the mouse begins saying the sentence "Silly old snake, doesn't he know, there's no such thing as a Gruffal ...", then the reader turns the page to see the picture of the Gruffalo and the mouse finishes its sentence with the exclamation "Oh!". Burke writes that this exclamation works particularly well when the text is read out loud. Van der Westhuizen writes that there is some "very subtle wordplay/manipulation of spelling" when the real Gruffalo is first introduced to make him "more specific, more substantial": from that point on in the text, "Gruffalo" is spelled with a capital 'G'; up until in the story, it was spelled with a lower case 'g'. There is typographic variation in the text, in that the Gruffalo's and predator's dialogue is written in italic font whereas the mouse's dialogue is not.

The text contains a mixture of predictable rhymes (such as mouse-house and wood-good) and unpredictable rhymes (such as toowhoo-flew). It utilises alliteration from the very start (such as "deep, dark woods" in the opening line), which gives more emphasis to the descriptions and helps children remember them easier. The word "terrible" is repeated as an adjective to describe the Gruffalo's features (for example "terrible tusks", "terrible claws"), which Burke writes may remind readers of Where the Wild Things Are—another children's book to use the word. The Gruffalo mainly uses concrete nouns (such as "lake" and "wood") rather than abstract nouns.

The Gruffalo
When writing the story, Donaldson did not have an exact vision of what the Gruffalo would look like. She said that she imagined he would be "more weird and less furry" than Scheffler's final illustrations. She read the story in schools prior to the book being published and invited the children to draw the Gruffalo, which resulted in creatures which she described as looking "more like aliens and less like cuddly animals". In early sketches for the book, the Gruffalo was depicted as being humanoid, troll-like, and wearing a T-shirt and trousers. The book's editor, Alison Green, said that they instead decided that the Gruffalo would look more like a woodland creature and predator, and Donaldson said the resulting illustration is "more natural looking". Scheffler's depiction of the creature relied on the physical descriptions within the text with along with features which aren't mentioned, such as a pair of bovine horns. He created a version of the character which is cuddly and furry but still scary. Donaldson describes the Gruffalo's appearance as a "mixture of scary but stupid". Burke writes that the image of the Gruffalo has become "iconic".

When the Gruffalo first appears in the story, he takes up a large part of the visual space on the page with strong, contrasting colours. He appears menacing with his arms raised in an attack stance, claws extended, and a drooling tongue. The mouse in comparison looks threatened, but the humorous grin of the Gruffalo—who looks directly at the audience rather than the mouse—alongside the playfulness of the text implies that the creature is less scary than he appears. As the story progresses, the Gruffalo gradually appears less menacing and more frightened. Throughout the nine visual depictions of the Gruffalo in the book, he becomes, as Burke writes, more "buffoon-like". In the penultimate picture of the Gruffalo, he holds his hand to his neck area which makes him look uncomfortable. The final picture is of the Gruffalo is him running away.

Setting
The Gruffalo is set in a forest. Scheffler was inspired by the forests in Hamburg when drawing rough initial sketches for the book. The setting contains a footpath, stream, lake, mushrooms and other wildlife. He depicts the "deep dark wood" with deep green and brown tones and dark outlines. The darkness of the hues add to the feeling of suspense when reading the story. Burke writes that the trees and tree roots are "reminiscent of the Gruffalo itself, it is as if the forest has in part spawned the creature, and they serve in the story to foreshadow what is to come". Throughout the book, the setting doesn't change—the illustrations at the end of the book are a mirror image of the forest at the beginning.

Publication history
The Gruffalo was published by Macmillan in 1999—a year after its completion. An audiobook version, narrated by Imelda Staunton, was released in 2002 and a jigsaw book version was published in 2004. The "Gruffalo song" was released with the audiobook on a musical CD with other songs from Donaldson's books. Scheffler and Donaldson continued to work together in an author-illustrator partnership and as of 2022 have created over 20 best-selling books. In 2019, 20 years after the publication of The Gruffalo, over 13.5 million copies had been sold. It has been translated into more than 100 languages, including Cornish, multiple dialects of Scots and Latin. The sequel to the book by Donaldson and Scheffler—The Gruffalo's Child—was published in 2004. It tells the story of the Gruffalo's daughter discovering the mouse after hearing stories about it from her father. Allusions to the Gruffalo character appear in several other books by Donaldson and Scheffler.

Film
The book has been adapted into a 30 minute animated film, which was broadcast on BBC One in the UK on 25 December 2009. This version features Robbie Coltrane in the title role, James Corden as the mouse, Helena Bonham Carter as the mother squirrel narrator, John Hurt as the Owl, Tom Wilkinson as the Fox and Rob Brydon as the Snake. The production was animated at Studio Soi in Germany and produced through Magic Light Pictures. It was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Short Film (Animated) in 2011. The film was nominated for a BAFTA in 2010.

Theatre
The Gruffalo has been adapted for the stage by Tall Stories theatre company, premiering in 2001. The production has toured the West End, Broadway, and Sydney Opera House. A review in The Scotsman says that the play "develops Donaldson's words with perfect understanding". A review in British Theatre praises the "dynamic movements in all the scenes", including fourth wall breaks, but writes that the musical numbers and scenery are not as inspiring. The Gruffalo has also been adapted for the stage by Dutch theatre company Meneer Monster.

Legacy
A range of official The Gruffalo merchandise includes clothing, accessories, games, and soft toys. A Gruffalo Woodland Trail was opened on 31 March 2012 at the Dean Heritage Centre in the Forest of Dean. The trail depicts scenes and characters from the book carved by chainsaw artists. Other Gruffalo-themed woodland walks and trails have been established in Great Britain, including those at Kilmardinny Loch in Bearsden, Mount Vernon Park in Glasgow, Ardkinglas in Argyll, Whinlatter Forest Park in Cumbria, and several locations managed by Forestry England. In 2017, Chessington World of Adventures opened The Gruffalo River Ride Adventure after securing a licensing deal with the studio Magic Light Pictures, which created The Gruffalo film. This ride replaced the park's Bubbleworks Ride. Another ride based on Donaldson's book, and Magic Light Picture's film, Room on the Broom was also opened.

Sterling silver, gold, and UK 50p commemorative coins featuring "The Gruffalo" were issued in 2019 to mark the 20th anniversary of the book's publication. The coins were not introduced into general circulation, but were sold through the Royal Mint website. The 50p coins sold out within a day of being released. The same year, characters from the book featured on a series of UK postage stamps issued by the Royal Mail.

Awards
The Gruffalo won the Nestlé Smarties Book Prize and Blue Peter Book Award's Best Book to Read Aloud. In November 2009 the book was voted "best bedtime story" by listeners of BBC Radio 2. In a 2010 survey by UK charity Booktime, the book came first in a list of children's favourite books.

title: The Gruffalo


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The Imitation Game (disambiguation)

The Imitation Game is a 2014 film based on a biography of Alan Turing.

The Imitation Game may also refer to:

 * Imitation game or Turing test, a test of a machine's ability to exhibit intelligent behaviour by Alan Turing
 * The Imitation Game (soundtrack), score album to the 2014 film
 * The Imitation Game (play), 1980 British television play
 * The Imitation Game (TV series), 2018 British television game show

title: The Imitation Game (disambiguation)


text:
User talk:Yondir

Intro
I joined Wikipedia in July 2005 and am fascinated by the concept of NPOV and how it works here. Wikiusers with an obvious personal POV manage to compromise and I hope to contribute in the near future.

Welcome!
Hello, Yondir, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contributions; I hope you like it here and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing and being a Wikipedian. Although we all make mistakes, please keep in mind what Wikipedia is not. If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to see the help pages or add a question to the village pump. The Community Portal can also be very useful.

Happy editing!

-- Sango  123  20:48, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you need help with anything or simply wish to say hello. :)

Reply
Hi, Yondir. Thanks for the message! Some links are red because an article on that topic has not yet been started. Click on a red link, and you see no content in the page, just an editing box. Links that are blue are 'populated', as I call them. Compare nonexistent article with dog. For further reference, there's always FAQ. Regards, Sango  123  13:01, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

Kesher Rent-A-Car Ltd.- Hertz Israel
Lists generally contain only internal (Wiki) links. External Web links should go into the specific article, which--in this case--would have to be created. Owen× ☎  18:32, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Stamphoto002.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Stamphoto002.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this:.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thank you.

title: User talk:Yondir


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pawg

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Dmcdevit·t 00:44, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Pawg
Introduces a non-notable fetish website, then diverts directly into a POV fork. Several Times 20:49, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a web guide. Flowerparty 21:18, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. I'm not feeling generous enough to revert it from its present state... -Splash 18:26, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Kill it wiwth fire. Redwolf24 02:24, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete advertising for a nn website. JamesBurns 03:24, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per Flowerparty. Ken 03:18, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Vanity. A few people from this forum are determined to pull a "publicity stunt", as you can see here. Binadot 11:11, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pawg


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Newfound Lake

Newfound Lake is located in Grafton County, New Hampshire, United States. It is situated in the Lakes Region of central New Hampshire, in the towns of Alexandria, Bridgewater, Bristol, and Hebron. Its area of 4451 acre places it behind only Lake Winnipesaukee and Squam Lake among lakes located entirely within New Hampshire, and fourth in the state overall, when Umbagog Lake on the Maine border is included.

Geography
Newfound Lake has 22 mi of shoreline. The lake is about 2.5 mi wide and 6 mi long. The deepest point is 183 ft. Major tributaries include the Fowler River and the Cockermouth River. Its outlet is the Newfound River, flowing through Bristol village into the Pemigewasset River. The lake volume is 98 billion gallons of water.

Wellington State Park, containing the largest freshwater swimming beach in the New Hampshire state park system, is a 204 acre property located on the lake's west shore in the town of Bristol.

Belle Island is a small island near the southern end of the lake. It was given to the state of New Hampshire by Camp Mowglis, a boys' camp located near the northern end of the lake, in 1942. According to a plaque posted on a rock on the island, the camp, known as the School of the Open, gave the island to the state "to remain perpetually in its natural beauty for a camping area especially for residents of New Hampshire, but for anyone who wants to use it. Take good care of it," the plaque reads.

There are a couple of popular sandbars on the lake. One is at the mouth of the Fowler River, just south of Wellington State Park. The other is in Hebron, by the mouth of the Cockermouth River, in the northwest corner of the lake.

Name
A tradition says that the Native Americans called the lake "Pasquaney", meaning "the place where birch bark for canoes is found". In 1751, John Kendall and Jonathan Farwell participated in marking the western lands of the Masonian proprietors, where they referred to it as "Newfound Lake" or "Baker's Pond". Evidently this information did not get to Emmanuel Brown in time for publication of his New and Accurate Map of New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, and New England in 1752, as the lake was left nameless. In 1755, Thomas Jefferys published a Map of the Most Inhabited Parts of New England with the lake shown, but still without a name. In 1761, a map called the Accurate Map of his Majesty's Province of New Hampshire detailed the area, again with the lake nameless. In 1766 the New Chester proprietors refer to the lake in printed records as "Newfound pond". In 1791, Jeremy Belknap called it "New Chester Pond" in his History of New Hampshire.

Bristol native Fred Lewis Pattee romantically referred to Newfound by its supposed Indian name in his poem "Pasquaney Lake".

Original landowners
The lake was originally fought over by John Mason and Peter Wheelright, who both claimed they owned a large plot of land with the lake being inside that plot. On November 7, 1629, Mason, a merchant from London, had the land from Newfound Lake to the Merrimack River in Massachusetts granted to him. Six months earlier, Reverend Peter Wheelright bought a large plot of land from indigenous people that was similar to the land John Mason received. The argument went to court and lasted for more than one hundred years.

Eventually, Mason's sixth heir, John Tufton Mason, won the case and sold the land to a syndicate known as the Masonian proprietors. On September 14, 1753, a syndicate living in Chester, New Hampshire, bought the land from the Mason proprietors, and the land became known as "New Chester". On February 12, 1788, the territory was divided up, and the territory north and east of Newfound Lake and the Newfound River was incorporated as Bridgewater. Two thirds of the lake was incorporated as Bristol on June 24, 1819.

Fish
In 1890, the New Hampshire Fish and Game Commissioner stocked 15,000 landlocked salmon into the Fowler River, and in 1898, the NH Fish and Game Commission stocked 40,000 whitefish from Lake Superior.

In 1889, the state built a fish hatching house located on the Newfound River because of the "ease with which the trout could be dipped from the spawning beds and stripped of the spawn." The house was 20 by and could hold 750,000 eggs. In 1897 a larger house was constructed, which held 1,000,000 lake trout eggs, 125,000 brook trout eggs, and 65,000 landlocked salmon eggs all in its first year of operation. After years of declining trout numbers, a screen was built at the outlet of the lake to prevent the fish from swimming down the Newfound River.

Today, 22 species of fish are found in the Newfound Lake watershed:

 * Brook trout
 * Brown bullhead
 * Burbot
 * Chain pickerel
 * Common shiner
 * Creek chub
 * Eastern blacknose dace
 * Fallfish
 * Golden shiner
 * Lake trout
 * Landlocked salmon
 * Longnose dace
 * Margined madtom
 * Rainbow smelt
 * Rainbow trout
 * Redbreast sunfish
 * Rock bass
 * Round whitefish
 * Slimy sculpin
 * Smallmouth bass
 * White sucker
 * Yellow perch

Of these species, six - brook trout, burbot, lake trout, rainbow smelt, round whitefish, and slimy sculpin - were selected as needing special consideration by the 2006 New Hampshire Wildlife Action Plan. Selection is based on a species' population status, integral ecological function, or the ability to extrapolate from it to indicate a healthy aquatic ecosystem.

Every year between mid-March and early July the lake is stocked with additional fish. In 2011 this included 305 landlocked salmon, with a total weight of 2622 lb, and 1,845 rainbow trout weighing 2589 lb.

Steamboats
Newfound Lake has hosted multiple steamboats in its waters. The first, the Pioneer owned by Capt. George W. Dow, was placed in the lake in 1865. It was destroyed by fire. In 1878, Edward M. Drake put the 56 ft Cardigan on the lake, which plied until 1883. That same year, the 28 ft Lady Helen joined it, but was also destroyed in a fire. In May 1900, the Stella-Marion was launched at Kimball's beach. It freighted mail and passengers until it too was destroyed in a fire on September 2, 1915.

Lighthouses
Reed Lighthouse, built in 1932, is located on West Shore Road next to the Ledges. Newfound Lighthouse stands at the Paradise Point Lodge on Route 3A in Bridgewater.

Lake conservation
The Newfound Lake Region Association (NLRA) was created in 1971 to protect the waters of Newfound Lake and the surrounding land. A total of 6653 acre of land is currently in conservation.

title: Newfound Lake


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Castletown House

Castletown House, Celbridge, County Kildare, Ireland, is a Palladian country house built in 1722 for William Conolly, the Speaker of the Irish House of Commons. It formed the centrepiece of an 800 acre estate. The estate was sold in 1965, and later sub-divided. The house and a core demesne of 120 acres were bought by a group of people looking to preserve them, and became the first major project of the Irish Georgian Society; they were later transferred to a dedicated charitable foundation, and ultimately to State ownership. Most of the wider estate remaining was divided between State forestry company, Coillte, and developers, and parts were built on, notably the former orchard and walled garden. In September 2023, the main access road and car parking became the subject of access issues and protests.

Interiors
On the piano nobile there are a series of ever-grander reception rooms, typical of the 1720s. The house was entered by ascending a staircase outside before coming into a large entrance hall which was decorated with stucco gilding and pictures of the family. To the left is the dining room which was made out of two smaller rooms. To the right of the hall was the huge staircase itself. This was made of Portland stone and is cantilevered.

Straight on on the left is the Green Drawing Room, also known as the Saloon because of its position in the house. This was the room that the family used to receive their guests in before leaving and (staying on the left hand side of the house) entering the Red Drawing Room. Beyond this, the Print Room is decorated with cut-outs of favourite images, following the fashion of the 1760s. This room is on the right side and is thought to be the only surviving example of this type of room in Ireland from this period. Further on is the State Bedroom, which was never used by royalty as such, but by the various viceroys based in Dublin. In it are chairs which were from Venice.

Another feature of Castletown is the Long Gallery, an 80 ft long room decorated in the Pompeian manner by O'Reilly in the 1770s in blue, red and gold.

Early history
On William Conolly's death in 1729, his widow Katherine (née Conyngham) continued living in the house and hosting extravagant entertainments there until her own death in 1752. The Castletown estate then passed to Conolly's nephew William James Conolly, MP for Ballyshannon. On William James' death in 1754 it passed to his son Tom Conolly whose wife, Lady Louisa (great-granddaughter of Charles II of England and Louise de Keroualle), finished the interior decoration during the 1760s and 1770s. Lady Louisa had grown up in Carton House, within a demesne to the north-east of Castletown house. Much of the work on the interior was carried out to designs of William Chambers. Lady Louisa also ordered extensive work on the grounds; the drainage scheme through the woodland is ingenious, creating dry paths for walking on land that is below the watertable (the ha-ha fence is part of this intricate network). The paths through the forest she set out are still in walking condition although, due to anti-joyrider measures, several of the culverts have broken and the pathways are again subject to flooding.

When Tom Conolly died in 1803, he left the estate to his wife, who on her own death in 1821 bequeathed it to her great-nephew, Edward Michael Pakenham, later the MP for Donegal, on condition he adopted the surname of Conolly. He was succeeded by his eldest son, another Tom Conolly, the eccentric MP for Donegal from 1849 to 1876. Tom's eldest son Thomas inherited Castletown, but after he was killed in 1900 the estate passed to his brother Major Edward Conolly.

The Conolly family continued to live in their ancestral house, latterly as the Conolly-Carews, until 1965, when it was sold by the 6th Baron Carew, along with its collections and land, to a Major Wilson for £133,000. Some of the land has been built on, although with some of the estate's features retained amongst the new structures.

Desmond Guinness and the Castletown Foundation
The house was bought in 1967 by Mariga and Desmond Guinness for £93,000 to save it from vandalism, became the flagship of the Irish Georgian Society, and was eventually handed over to the newly established Castletown Foundation.

The estate was sold on in parts, with 120 acre held as curtilage around the house, some small quantities retained privately by Desmond Guinness, the forested Crodaun Woods part sold to what became Coillte and around 25 acre acquired over time by Kildare County Council. Most of the core estate remains as woods or green space but a large fraction in the south west was developed as Castletown Estate, controversially approaching the main house closely, and taking in the Walled Garden and the orchard (whose wall remains), which were lost. However, some other features, such as the Gazebo, the Steward's House and a mock temple, were retained, after negotiations between developer Janus Securities and the Irish Georgian Society.

Modern times
The charitable Castletown Foundation struggled with the financial and operational demands of maintenance and ongoing restoration, and in 1994, following extensive negotiations between the foundation and the State, Castletown House, with its 120-acre residual demesne, was transferred to the Office of Public Works (OPW).

The OPW continued the programme of restoration, of both house and lands.

Across the broader former estate, and despite the protection of the house and some estate features, at least one of the outlying features, The Gazebo, was partly demolished, without planning permission, in late 2007. An enforcement notice was served on the developer concerned, and further action is expected.

In 2012, work began to restore the lake on the lawn between Castletown House and the Liffey, and this was followed in 2016 by work on the pleasure grounds behind and to the west of the house.

Access and rights of way
Access by pedestrians is possible from one end of Celbridge's main street, along the former half-mile main drive, lined with lime trees. Access by car is, since 2007, from the north beside junction 6 of the N4 / M4 motorway, with car parking near the house. In September 2023, it was announced that the vehicular entrance, and both main and disabled car parking areas, would be closing, due to disagreement between the State agency managing Castletown and the new owners of much of the remaining land, leading to active local protests.

An informal footpath runs along the river Liffey, and a second path runs from the house towards Leixlip, passing the gate lodge designed by Batty Langley.

Current activities
Castletown House has opened its doors to various academic and artistic organisations. The first arts organisation to take up residency at Castletown House in 2007 was The Performance Corporation, a site-specific theatre company. The company operates an office from the premises as well as running rehearsals for their productions and hosting an annual international cross-artform residency programme, the "SPACE Programme".

The OPW-Maynooth University Archive and Research Centre was launched by President Mary McAleese in November 2008. It was established to facilitate the care and study of archives and other sources dealing with the history of Irish estates, their houses and inhabitants. It also facilitates research in the decorative arts. This facility marks an exciting new collaboration between the Office of Public Works and Maynooth University. The Archive and Research Centre is located on the second floor of Castletown House.

As 2018, a weekly parkrun was taking place in the parklands of Castletown house on Saturdays.

title: Castletown House


text:
User talk:AmandaHansen

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 172 | Talk 20:50, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:AmandaHansen