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Talk:Continuation

Disagree with current definition of continuations
A continuation is a function (that takes an argument) used to explicitly model control flow. You can also observe that in various other articles such as those on continuation-passing style. Because continuations often (call-cc/delimited) can capture a program state the author now seems to inadvertently believe that that is the defining feature of a continuation, it isn't,  it's about explicitly modelling control flow not capturing program state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A467:CCD6:1:940D:DBF8:92F5:3D86 (talk) 19:44, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Delegates as continuations
I really would have to question whether C# supports continuations in any meaningful form. A C# delegate is little more than a function pointer. (See ) MAllerton 19:14, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The use of delegates as continutations in C# comes from their use in callbacks in asynchronouus invocations.--Carl Hewitt 20:12, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * As usual you're not answering the question. Function pointers can't be full blown continuations by the simple fact that they don't save any part of the state/stack. -- Koffieyahoo 10:38, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I suggest that you read the documentation on the use of delegates for asynchronous invocation.--Carl Hewitt 16:17, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Can you provide me with a reference? -- Koffieyahoo 08:50, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

 * See the following for an example.--Carl Hewitt 21:08, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Asynchronous Web Services

 * This describes a call-back mechanism, which only saves state by virtue of all relevant data being contained in an object. Hence, this should not be classified as a continuation (the system itself doesn't save any state). So, a more relevant reference is required to convince me that delegates are continuations. --Koffieyahoo 10:04, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Moreover so, I'm pretty sure the CLR doesn't allow continuations because the stack context (like in the jvm) can't be reified. Wouter Lievens 10:38, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

 * What do you mean by a continuation?--Carl Hewitt 10:58, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The article is pretty clear about what a continuation is. -- Karada 11:01, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

 * In that case, I don't see a problem with using a delegate for such continuations because it has access to the stack frame.--Carl Hewitt 11:06, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The idea is that the stack frame is saved, being able to access it is not enough. -- Koffieyahoo 12:11, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I removed the misleading reference to "state" from the beginning of the article. It now reads as follows:

 * "In computing, a continuation is a representation of an execution point (for example, the instruction pointer and stack frame). Many languages have constructs that allow a programmer to obtain a pointer to a continuation, and then to resume execution using the pointer at a later point in time."
 * --Carl Hewitt 15:52, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't see how this solves the problem with C#, in that case it's still just a pointer, and that plainly isn't enough for execution to resume. -- Koffieyahoo 09:31, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Please see the documentation on delegates.--Carl Hewitt 13:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I've done that, and what I see is a function pointer, which doesn't suffice (no stack frame, no intruction pointer). So please eleborate here. -- Koffieyahoo 15:01, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * C# has delegates which are not the same as the function pointers in Java.--Carl Hewitt 21:57, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Java doesn't have function pointers. Anyway, C# doesn't even have closures, and you can't have continuations without closures. C#s delegates (which work more or less like function objects in C++) just don't suffice. Cadr 22:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I meant say that C# has delegates which are not the same as the function pointers in C++.--Carl Hewitt 22:39, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay, so basically there are four people who think that C# does not have continuations and only one thinks that C# has continuations (based on arguments refuted by the other persons). So, I'm removing it from the article. If we want to add it back we should discuss this here first! -- Koffieyahoo 13:29, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * You can't remove it without quoting from the reference to the documentation on delegates.--Carl Hewitt 14:27, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I've been trying to find an appropriate reference, e.g., by asking you for one. And nothing has turned up, so I simply don't think you're right. Provide me with a reference before you add it back. Every piece of documentation you and others have come up with shows that delegates are not continuations. -- Koffieyahoo 14:56, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I provided you with the following reference Asynchronous Web Services
 * You must quote from this document and possibly from other authorities.--Carl Hewitt 18:45, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Erm, no. The burden of proof is on you in this case. Are we to find documentation for all the other 1000s of programming languages which don't have continuations? What's so notable about C# that it deserves such special treatment? Cadr 20:03, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * A specific citation has been provided above. Have you read it?--Carl Hewitt 20:37, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * That reference doesn't say anything about continuations, so I don't see what it's meant to prove. I've only skimmed the article, but asynchronous callbacks are not at all the same thing as continuations. Can you show us an example program in C# which shows how you would implement call/cc or some equivalent operation in C#? Cadr 23:00, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The refernce contains a program that performs this.EndInvoke(asyncResult) which resumes execution of the continuation (stack frame).--Carl Hewitt 23:20, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The reference does not contain a program that performs a call to EndInvoke (it just mentions EndInvoke breifly without really explaining what it does). In any case, suspeding a thread of execution and then resuming it is not equivalent to a continuation. For one thing, a continuation can be called multiple times with identical results (assuming it has no side effects).Cadr 23:58, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The refernce contains a program that performs this.EndInvoke(asyncResult) which resumes execution of the continuation (stack frame).--Carl Hewitt 04:35, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

 * As far as I understand it this.EndInvoke(asyncResult) resumes based on solely on the state of the object, which is subject to change between the creation of the delegate and its invocation. Hence, I still don't believe delegates are full-blown continuations. Anyway it was removed from the article. -- Koffieyahoo 09:09, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Carl Hewitt, are you doing this on purpose?

 * C# delegates definitely do NOT constitute continuations. They can be used with lots of multithreaded trickery to IMPLEMENT a continuation library, but they themselves are not continuations.  However, C# does have the "yield return" and "yield break" keywords which ARE directly able to provide continuation-like behavior.  C# delegates, though, have absolutely nothing to do with it.  For anyone that disagrees, please provide a code example.  Here is a code example of continuations with yeild return:

IEnumerable CF(int max) { for(int i=0; i < max; ++i ) { yield return i;   } }

 * If C# indeed suports other sorts of continuations, it should be trivial for one to provide a delegate-based example.

 * I don't think yield qualifies as a continuation because you can't call it multiple times and expect the same result.

The article continuation states that there is more than one kind of continuation as follows:

Kinds of continuations
Support for continuations varies widely. A programming language supports re-invocable continuations if a continuation may be invoked repeatedly (even after it has already returned1). Re-invocable continuations were introduced by Peter Landin using his J (for Jump) operator that could perform a nonlocal goto into the middle of a procedure invocation. Re-invocable continutations have also been called "re-entrant" in the MzScheme programming language. However this use of the term "re-entrant" is too easily confused with its use in discussions of multitasking.

At one time Sussman and McDermott thouught that using re-invocable continutations (which they called "Hairy Control Structure") was the solution to the AI control structure problems that had originated in Planner. Carl Hewitt ''et. al.'' developed message passing as an alternative solution in the Actor model. Guy Steele and Gerry Sussman then developed in the continuations in Scheme in their attempt to understand the Actor model.

A more limited kind is the escape continuation that may be used to escape the current context to a surrounding one. Many languages which do not explicitly support continuations support exception handling, which is equivalent to escape continuations and can be used for the same purposes. C's  and   are also equivalent: they can only be used to unwind the stack. Escape continuations can also be used to implement tail-call optimization.

--Carl Hewitt 04:30, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

 * OK, then why not use exception handling in C# to demonstrate it's level of support for continuations instead of this more obscure stuff? Cadr 19:24, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Anynchronous invocation is a more interesting use of continuations in C# than exception handling.--Carl Hewitt 00:58, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

 * When people say "support for continuations" they usually mean full continuations, since this is what distinguishes a notable subset of languages (e.g. Scheme) from the vast bulk of languages. "Escape continuations" aka exceptions are not remarkable, since most high-level languages support them. --FOo 21:42, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * In a encyclopedia article, it is useful to discuss the full range of continuations. What do you mean by a full continuation?--Carl Hewitt 00:58, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

 * A full continuation can be invoked multiple times. Languages which are said to "support" continuations are usually expected to have something like call-with-current-continuation, or perhaps as an alternative an easy method of writing programs in continuation passing style (I'm thinking of Haskell here). Really, any language can be said to support continuations. After all, if you are a masochist, you can write a C program in CPS and then play around with continuations as you please. Indeed, it's not particularly difficult to write CPS C code automatically, as Scheme compilers such as Chicken demonstrate. Asking whether a language supports continuations is a bit like asking whether it supports object oriented programming. The real question is "does the language support continuation passing style without a lot of hard work and/or the use of obscure language features?"

 * One more thing, Carl. Are you saying that asynchronous method invocation doesn't offer anything closer to full continuations than the exception mechanism? If so, it would be far better to use the exception mechanism as an example since it's much easier to understand (regardless of how interesting it may or may not be). Cadr 00:22, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

 * On reconsideration, I now beleive that it is better to remove the C# delegates from the article so I have done so.--Carl Hewitt 01:12, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Python continuations?
Python doesn't have an explicit "continuation object" which you can store and reclaim state from/to. However, in the current version of Python (2.4) you have "generators"; they are resumable functions which return a value using the "yield" statement. Does that qualify as a continuation? See [] for examples of use.--Larry Hastings 16:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Generators don't qualify as continuations. Tim Peters wrote a wonderful mini-essay on how Python generators, coroutines, and continuations relate to each other, but the short version is:
 * Generators represent a single frozen stack frame, while continuations represent a complete call stack.
 * A generator's frame gets resumed on top of its caller, and returns back to it, while a continuation completely replaces its caller's stack (and thus cannot "return").
 * You cannot capture or resume previous states of a generator, but you can invoke continuations from any time in the past, whenever you like, as many times as you like.
 * --Piet Delport 16:45, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Example
I've added the scheme example from Tim Peters's linked posting. This article (an continuations in general) didn't make any sense until I read a concrete example. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 14:38, 10 July 2006 (talk • contribs) Gene Thomas.

 * An example in a widely-used language would be even better! 87.187.54.239 11:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Isn't Scheme the most widely used language with standard first-class continuations? Perhaps Ruby has them now and is more widely known than Scheme, but I'm not convinced a Ruby example would be any better than the Scheme example. --Malirath (talk) 20:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Use of closures and continuation-passing style to implement call/cc
The article currently contains the following paragraph:
 * In any language which supports anonymous closures, it is possible to write programs in continuation passing style and manually implement call/cc. This is a particularly common strategy in Haskell, where it is easy to construct a "continuation passing monad".

I do not see why the closures would have to be anonymous as it is obviously possible (albeit tedious) to name all continuations. Also, while you can program using CPS in every language with closures, I am not sure whether this really is practical without guaranteed tail-call elimination, so I think this should at least be mentioned. — Tobias Bergemann 08:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Right, the naming of closures is completely orthogonal.
 * I don't think it's necessary to mention tail-call elimination, though. In strict languages, it's very simple to prevent inefficient tail calls using a trampoline, and in pure, lazy languages like Haskell, the very notion of tail-call elimination becomes ill-defined (since there isn't really any conventional, implicit call stack to do the elimination on).  --Piet Delport 22:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't start with Scheme!!
I don't think the initial examples should be in Scheme. I don't think this is the best for understanding for the vast majority of programmers. I myself program for a living, and I totally balked at the Scheme intro, not grasping one single thing of what it tries to explain (The same goes for Closure (computer science), using Lisp). If one look at Coroutines, this starts off with some nice pseudocode, immediately understandable for anyone having the slightest interest in computer languages, adaptable to one's preferred universe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.115.107 (talk • contribs)

 * I fully disagree with that. As a self-taught, working programmer who started with C, if you want to understand these sorts of topics (which you should), you need to do your homework & learn the vernaculars. (Or...er...the opposite of the vernacular, I suppose.) While there may not be a lingua franca of computer science, Scheme is one of those languages that is close. --Malirath 21:00, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Hear, hear. --Piet Delport 22:30, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

 * It also strikes me that pseudocode means that nobody except the author can be certain what it means. Sticking to R*RS Scheme, however, ensures that an example is as clear as it can be. Nigh anyone who can read Wikipedia can read the standard. --Malirath 02:35, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Although I am not a Scheme user (I studied it years ago, but for work, I write mostly in Python) I think that ideas like this are better illustrated with Scheme or Lisp than with C-ish languages. A Lisp-oid language shows explicitly where the lexical contours are. In a subject such as continuations, this is essential. --FOo 03:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Perl re-added
Piet Delport removed perl with a bogus explanation (the entry refered to Coro, not Coro::Cont, and both Coro and Coro::Cont provide continuations and not just generators). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.123.88 (talk • contribs)

 * I'm afraid the Coro module's documentation is mistaken.
 * Coro::Cont provides generators (despite it calling them "continuations"), and Coro::State (referred to in your edit summary) provides coroutines: neither of them (or anything else i can see in the Coro module) provide first-class continuation support.  --Piet Delport 21:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

 * You are mistaken then, Coro::State provides everything you need to implement Continuations, as defined by this article. It provides the same semantics as UNIX ucontext, which is also given as an example.
 * Most notably, this page is about Continuations, which includes call/cc, first-class continuations, the UNIX ucontext family and Coro::State, which us used to provide a coroutine abstraction in Coro and a more-iterator-like abstraction in Coro::Cont (which still is not limited to generators, the continuation created by Coro::Cont has unlimited extend). Specifically, Coro::State might not provide the full generality of call/cc but it does provide support for storing and resuming continuation, as per the wikipedia definition, which IMHO reflects common definitions of continuations elsewhere. If you remove the perl entry again please state what it lacks compared to e.g. ucontext, state what of the definition it does not fulfill or give another reason why this material is inappropriate for this page (for example, listing all languages supporting continuations might not be useful, although it is useful for a common language like perl). It is quite possible that the page (or the perl module documentation) needs improvements in other respects (definition, applicability), but that should be discussed rather than changes simply reverted. Thanks a lot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.123.88 (talk • contribs)

 * Coro::State only allows you to spawn new coroutines, which is very different from being able to capture the current continuation (like /  do).
 * You are correct in saying that Coro::State does not provide the full generality of, and this is exactly why it does not belong on this page:  if it did, everything in the Coroutine and Generator articles would too.
 * Before you try to add the Coro module to the article again, please do yourself a favor and try using it to implement something like exceptions, or backtracking. This should make it clear what the difference is between it and full continuation support.  --Piet Delport 18:17, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

 * First, please do not remove it again before at least discussing the points I asked for. Then, as I mentioned, this article is about continuations, not about call/cc. You cannot implement backtracking with Coro::State, nor can you implement backtracking with setcontext/getcontext. You can, however, implement exceptions with both of them. This does not matter, though, as the article talks about Continuation, the concept, not the actual implementation in Scheme. The point of having an article about Continuation is to describe the concept in its generality, not a single example of how it is implemented in specific languages. Coro::State creates and manages obejcts that fit the description of Continuation exactly. Unlimited repeatability is not mentioned, nor required, for continuations in general. You really confuse Continuations (which are scarcely more than coroutines) with call/cc, which offers a specific kind of Continuations (for example, it adds repeatability). It is doubtlessly fitting for this article to not limit itself to the Scheme implementation. For example many peopel are confused by the limitation of call/cc returning only the _current_ continuation. Many people find it easier to create continuations as argument to a function (as e.g. Coro::State does). This *is* already mentione din the article. What happens here is that you enforce a limited view of the concept of Continuations which does not follow form the article, nor, as I think, from the general idea behind what a continuation is (namely an abstraction of the current "instruction pointer" + some state such as local variables, which is named "Continuation". Repeatability is a required thing for a continuation). To repeat it: the article talks about continuations, _not_ call/cc, and Coro::State correct encapsulates continuations as defined by the article. The fact that it doesn't do the same thing as call/cc (because it reverses the argument/return value order and doesn't allow repeatability) is irrelevant as long as it fulfills the requirement for continuations. Specifically, it is different from Generator as its state objects have unlimited lifetime (unlike generators) and unlike coroutines, it has a state object which encapsulates the continuation (which is not required for Coroutines). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.97.187 (talk • contribs)

 * Who ever said the article was only about, or Scheme?
 * What it is about, anyway, is first-class continuations. This specifically excludes everything that only involves continuations at some hidden, implicit level, because those are so pervasive and ubiquitous that the article would probably have to discuss nearly every feature of almost every programming language in existence.  Instead, those features are treated in their own articles (Coroutine, in the Coro module's case).
 * Now, a few corrections and responses:
 * You can implement backtracking with / .  In fact, there are language implementations that use  /  not only for that, but for all their first-class continuation support. (GNU Guile, for example)
 * You can not implement exceptions using  or (as far as i can tell from the source code and documentation) anything else in the Coro module.  (It allows you to capture/resume the current coroutine, but not any of the (outer, exception-handling) continuations entailed by it.)
 * "[...] call/cc, which offers a specific kind of Continuations (for example, it adds repeatability)." Actually,   need not make any guarantee about the kind or extent ("repeatability") of the continuations obtained by it (unless you're talking about specific definitions, like the one in R5RS (which has no bearing on anything outside of Scheme, of course)).  Many non-Scheme languages with   (and some Scheme implementations) place necessary restrictions on the extent of the continuations obtained in certain contexts:  for example, when mixtures of C and high-level stack frames are involved.
 * "[...] state objects have unlimited lifetime (unlike generators), and unlike coroutines, it has a state object which encapsulates the continuation (which is not required for Coroutines)." I'm not completely certain about what you mean, here, but by any reasonable interpretation i can come up with, generators do have unlimited lifetimes, and coroutines are required by definition to encapsulate a continuation.
 * Finally, even if the Coro module did provide first-class continuation support (which it doesn't), i would questioning its encyclopedic merit to begin with, considering that  comes with a disclaimer saying "This module has not yet been extensively tested, but works on most platforms. Expect segfaults and memleaks", and that it does not seem to have much, if any, actual users.  --Piet Delport 08:41, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I have mentioned this limitation for both ucontext and coro now. Also,e verytime you removed perl you also removed other unrelated edits, please be more careful in the future (but I hope you are now convinced that discussing the full range of continuations as defined by the article itself is better than only disucssing call/cc and variants, which would better be done in a separate page that only talks about call/cc). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.97.187 (talk • contribs)

 * I assure you, i endeavour to be very careful with my edits. I did not roll back the other edits accidentally, but because they run counter to Wikipedia's style guideline that list entries should not have trailing periods unless they contain full sentences.  --Piet Delport 08:41, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Similar to fiber?
There is an article on Fiber (computer science). Fibers appear to be very similar to continuations. If they are the same, perhaps the articles should be merged. If they are not the same, then perhaps a reference and some distinctions should be added to the article. Kevin99 18:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Close; as the article points out, Fibers are essentially coroutines.  Any discussion and comparison probably belongs there.  --Piet Delport 08:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Delimited continuations
I've redirected to here. If anyone who understands them could add a section, that'd be good. --Gwern (contribs) 13:14 4 July 2007 (GMT)

Steve Russel's second Lisp interpreter
Does anyone have a reference for the statement in the article that Steve Russell implemented continuations in his second Lisp interpreter? Kleg 20:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Continuations in web programming
The section states that there's no consensus yet, however, after looking at the linked argument against, it's pretty clear that the opposition to continuations is a result of a fairly gross misunderstanding of the nature and working of continuations, the argument being, roughly, "let's not bother with continuations, instead let's devise a mechanism which would let us store enough of the state to resume the computation at any point", which is exactly what continuations are. The first linked blog post even goes as far as citing the fact that continuations can supposedly break if the user submits a form multiple times, showing utter confusion and completely missing the fact that preventing that is the very reason continuations are used for web programming.

Given that both the pros and cons arguments linked are fairly insubstantial (just random blogs), I'd propose either either expanding that section into a proper explanation of exact nature of continuations as applied to the web programming, or entirely removing the mention of supposed lack of consensus, as it lacks any serious backup in well-researched publications. mathrick 22:48, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I for one "invented" a form of continuations in this context in my first web project (at school, in previous century) by using a "hidden=" field in forms sent back to the client to encode "what to do next" and avoid a heavy-weight session controller. I was quite aware of what I was doing though. Reading this, I was curious if anybody published something like that so we can use it in here without writing my WP:OR. In Queinnec's paper, there is a mention of that in the related work section (section 8). I think that some technical details would not hurt in this article, or be too off-topic. That section devotes too much space to this so called controversy, instead of being informative on how continuations may be implemented in a web app. Pcap ping  13:53, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Who invented call-with-current-continuation?
Though Dan Friedman is certainly a fan of call/cc, and talks about continuations often,  and several chapters of the Essentials of Programming Languages are dedicated to the Continuation Passing Style,  he didn't come up with it. Sussman and Steele's original Scheme, as detailed in the lambda papers, had an operator comparable to call/cc. Even so, they didn't come up with it either, exactly,  though their Rabbit compiler was the first to convert programs to the continuation passing style as part of the compiliation. This site suggests that Landin may have come up with it, though the site's author is not sure.

The concept of a contination, as opposed to operators such as call/cc that allow one to grab a continuation,   has an obscure origin in the early days of computing. I don't really know many details here. 66.170.46.244 (talk) 12:55, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Please read Carl Hewitt's "Kinds of continuations" comment up above. He addresses some of the early history. linas (talk) 15:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Too complex
Wow, that's a heavy article. I'm a computer scientist and I had a hard time grasping the summary. 81.15.57.130 (talk) 09:48, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I concur, this page should be simplified and have examples in pseudocode, so everyone can understand them. Antony Carthy (talk) 09:57, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added the example below. It's a shame it's sitting here in the talk page when it could be illustrating a practical usage in the article. Diego (talk) 10:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Would it possible to have a step by step example of call/cc? I interpreted call/cc g as g trap0.  The trap0 argument was propagated down through the function.  When the trap0 argument (which is a one parameter function itself) was executed with an argument, it would return to the create point of trap0.  So when trap0 3 was called, then the program would jump to call/cc g with the value 3. DetriusXii (talk) 18:09, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Coroutines/threads implemented from continuations
During email discussions, Eric Cooper at CMU offered up the below very simple, very elegant example of using call/cc to implement coroutines/threads. I post it here mostly because I think its a very nice programming Design pattern (computer science), combining a queue with call/cc to make it all work. By comparison, googling "coroutine scheme" returns some truly horrid, mind-bendingly bad examples.

This example provides a very nice illustration of "what the heck are continuations good for?" -- because, without examples of their utility, they seem somewhat abstract and pointless. I'd like to see this example in some article somewhere, but not sure which article: this example, though very brief, is still longer than most.

;;; A naive queue for thread scheduling. ;;; It holds a list of continuations "waiting to run". (define *queue* ') (define (empty-queue?)    (null? *queue*)) (define (enqueue x)    (set! *queue* (append *queue* (list x)))) (define (dequeue)    (let ((x (car *queue*))) (set! *queue* (cdr *queue*)) x)) ;;; This starts a new thread running (proc). (define (fork proc)    (call/cc (lambda (k)       (enqueue k)        (proc)))) ;;; This yields the processor to another thread, if there is one. (define (yield)    (call/cc (lambda (k)       (enqueue k)        ((dequeue))))) ;;; This terminates the current thread, or the entire program ;;; if there are no other threads left. (define (thread-exit)    (if (empty-queue?) (exit) ((dequeue))))

;;; The body of some typical Scheme thread that does stuff: (define (do-stuff-n-print str)    (lambda (let loop ((n 0))        (format #t "~A ~A\n" str n)         (yield)         (loop (1+ n))))) ;;; Create two threads, and start them running. (fork (do-stuff-n-print "This is AAA")) (fork (do-stuff-n-print "Hello from BBB")) (thread-exit)

Again, thanks to Eric Cooper for above nice example. linas (talk) 15:50, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

 * p.s. Eric adds that the example was first presented here:
 * Haynes, C. T., Friedman, D. P., and Wand, M. 1984. Continuations and coroutines. In Proceedings of the 1984 ACM Symposium on LISP and Functional Programming (Austin, Texas, United States, August 06 - 08, 1984). LFP '84. ACM, New York, NY, 293-298.
 * linas (talk) 16:12, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey, linus, that's a really great example! It showed me exactly how continuations might be used. Just a small point though, shouldn't ((dequeue)) be ((dequeue) nil) so that the continuation get's its argument? On my implementation, at least, the enqueued continuation requires an argument to use as its return-value. --Kristianlm (talk) 06:49, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Another example: Exceptions (throw, catch)
Another classic example of the usefulness of continuations is the implementation of exception handlers (throw, catch). I think this would be an excellent addition to this article: so, for example, both Java and C++ implement exceptions, but they do it in a hacky, non-general kind of way. By contrast, it should become very simple if instead one had general-purpose continuations. linas (talk) 17:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Continuations in Lua?
This article says "In any language which supports closures, it is possible to write programs in continuation passing style and manually implement call/cc."

Well, Lua supports closures, so can anyone give an example on how to implement call/cc in Lua? I'm not talking about Lua's coroutine table. I already know that exists, plus that's for coroutines, which if I understand correctly, can also be implemented using call/cc but they themselves are not call/cc. Nothingist (talk) 12:52, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * In other words, if that excerpt is really true then it would be appropriate to exemplify it, and I think Lua would be a perfect candidate to write an example in since it does have closures but no native call/cc functionality (again, I'm not talking about the coroutine table in Lua). Nothingist (talk) 14:12, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

"Reifies", i.e., semicolon, afterthought
A continuation reifies the program control state, i.e. the continuation is a data structure that represents the computational process at a given point in the process's execution; the created data structure can be accessed by the programming language, instead of being hidden in the runtime environment.

I wouldn't exactly call this a welcome matt. — MaxEnt 15:00, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

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Single-shot continuations
I found that MoarVM (Perl 6) has Single-shot continuations (https://www.moarvm.org/features.html). And later I found paper "Representing Control in the Presence ofOne-Shot Continuations" (https://www.cs.indiana.edu/~dyb/pubs/call1cc.pdf). It is too heavy for me so I would appreciate some extension of the article if it make sense. Or at least could be MoarVM (Perl 6) added to the list? Thank you. --mj41 (talk) 09:40, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Continuation


text:
User:Ghazwozza

Steve is way more than a name. It's a lifestyle.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Ghazwozza


text:
Quo Vadis (band)

Quo Vadis was a Canadian melodic death metal band from Montreal, Quebec, formed in 1992 by Bart Frydrychowicz, Yanic Bercier, and Arie Itman, named after the novel by Polish writer Henryk Sienkiewicz. Since its inception, the band released three studio albums, one compilation album, one demo, one live DVD, one live album and two videos. Not to be confused with another technical death metal band from Poland, bearing the same name.

Formation, Quo Vadis Demo (1992–1995)
Quo Vadis was formed in 1992 by guitarists and vocalists Bart Frydrychowicz and Arie Itman and drummer Yanic Bercier. Initially the band's music consisted of Metallica and Megadeth covers. However, over time, the band began to write originals and incorporate them into their live shows. By 1995, the band had written several originals and wanted to record a demo. Bassist Remy Beauchamp was recruited as a permanent member after the band tried out 17 others and soprano vocalist Sebrina Lipari performed on certain songs live. The Quo Vadis Demo was released on cassette on March 21, 1995, through VomiT Productions and helped the band establish themselves in the Montreal metal community.

Forever... (1996–1998)
In early 1996, Quo Vadis headed back into the studio and recorded their debut album with Pierre Rémillard, who had previously worked with Cryptopsy, as producer. On April 10, 1996, Forever... was released and was received favorably by both fans and critics, leading Earth AD Records in Germany and Immortal Records in Poland to sign licensing deals with Quo Vadis. Bart said of the album, "We recorded a demo which was released as an EP on cassette last year. The reaction was very positive. We were still searching for direction at that time, experimenting with keyboards and femme vox. The music is much more focused now as we have found our sound. Forever... is much more aggressive then the EP was, it's much more melodic and intricate. That may sound like a contradiction but that is the case. I think we had more to say as musicians this time in the studio as well. Our objective was to keep the aggression and not to loose our edge. I think we captured that quite well, at the same time setting free our artistic side. It's pretty weird. You have to listen to both to really understand."

Day into Night and Passage in Time (1999–2001)
After signing onto Hypnotic Records in 1999, Quo Vadis received a budget of around $20,000 to record their second album. Recorded at Victor Studios and produced again by Quo Vadis and Pierre Rémillard, Day into Night was released on March 30, 2000, in Canada. Whereas the composing duties for Forever were credited to all members, a majority of the songs on the Day Into Night album were in fact written and recorded by Arie. However, due to logistical problems, the album was released to Europe in December. To promote the album a video for "Dysgenics" was made. Remy commented on the making of the video, "It was long! We did two days of shooting. It's not the most pleasant thing to do lipsing and pretend to be playing, but it's all worth it in the end. What's really fun is the editing, seeing the whole thing take shape. We did a video release in Music Plus studios in December, but what people saw that day wasn't the finished version. We changed it a lot since and it looks really cool." Day into Night also sold much more than Forever...; Bart compared them: "The reactions have been excellent, to give you an idea, we sold as many copies of the new album in the 6 months as of Forever... in 2 years."

The sound of the album was notably different than Forever as the female vocals and violins had disappeared and the band's focus had shifted away from melody towards more technicality and progressiveness, featuring more complex song structures and time signature changes. Remy Beauchamp elaborated, "Basically, it was over three years between the recordings of both albums so within that time, the music we listen to has changed. Also, we all improved on our instruments... The female vocals are just something we tried a long time ago. The song was actually written in 1994, and then every band started doing it so we decided to drop it. The violin is not out definitely though, we might be putting some on our next album but for 'Day Into Night', we wanted to have a good heavy album, no extras." Bart said that "the production is much better; we spent 3 months in the studio as opposed to a week and a half... Our budget helped as well – we basically spent ten times the amount that we spent on Forever..." He also said, "One thing that many fans asked about... was why there was no violin. At the time we wanted to distance ourselves from all the bands that filled space in their music with different instruments as opposed to writing good music that stood on its own. We did the violin thing five years ago when the idea was a new concept so we wanted to move in. In face, we did record a violin piece for the album but chose not to include it for the reason above. Too many bands with violins. We wanted Day into Night to be heavy and kick ass and not diluted by association."

In 2001, Quo Vadis released Passage in Time, a compilation album, under Skyscraper Music. The compilation album featured the entire Quo Vadis Demo, two live tracks, two remixes, one new song and the "Dysgenics" video. Remy commented on the album, "The demo hasn't been available for over three years and many fans were asking for it so we decided we might as well do something special if we were to re-release it. There will be a whole multimedia-section with it too. It will be an interesting package."

Line-up changes (2002–2003)
In 2002, Yanic Bercier relocated to Tennessee, United States for work but remained in the band, although not attending a single practice after August 2002. Bart asserted, "Yanic is one of the most solid and reliable people I've ever known... We are in touch multiple times a day and he participates in the band... Our rehearsals are at the live shows we play... Yanic makes great efforts to stay in touch, practice, to fly in for all the shows, mixing, mastering, etc."

In the same year, vocalist and guitarist Arie as well as bassist Remy quit the band. According to Bart this decision was influenced by several factors; "I had wanted to bring in someone into the band for vocals all the way back in 2001, this was not possible at the time as some ex-members of the band felt that it would diminish their importance or feel threatened." He added, "...you see, back in 2002, we weren't expecting all this to happen a month before recording – and to have to write the other half of the album in 4 weeks... if there had been no changes at all, we would have had to deal with similar issues anyway. That's because, little did we know at the time, the other guitarist had only one song ready a month before studio (despite telling us he had material for four songs) so either way we would have had four weeks to write the rest of the album. Maybe he chose to deal with it by leaving the band, I don't know and I don't really care."

Quo Vadis then recruited Cryptopsy guitarist Alex Auburn for the remainder of 2002 to take over Arie's guitar duties. Will Seghers saw the band perform at the Metropolis, their first show after the line-up changes. After about a year he joined the band temporarily, replacing Alex who had to leave due to his commitments with Cryptopsy.

Instead of searching for and auditioning bassists, Bart decided to opt for an already established name. In 2003, Bart emailed Steve Di Giorgio asking, "Would you be interested in doing session work in Canada?" Steve agreed and Bart sent him info on the band and their music. After Steve finished his tour with Testament, he met with Bart for the first time in the Montreal Airport.

For vocals, Quo Vadis recruited Stéphane Paré to replace Arie. Bart praised his vocals, saying, "In any case, the most important issue was to fix the weak delivery of vocals live. And that's been addressed when Stéphane came in." This new line-up was completed by the addition of Roxanne Constantin, formerly of Negativa, on keyboards, soprano and alto vocals.

Defiant Imagination (2004)
Although the album was released on November 4, 2004, Defiant Imagination was written much earlier. By 2002, the song structures had been finalized and the drums were recorded in September 2002, and the bass in August 2003 at Wildsound Studios with Pierre Rémillard as the sound engineer. Cellos were recorded in October 2003 by POJPOWJ. The guitars were recorded sporadically between September 2002 and January 2004 and the choir and the vocals were recorded in January 2004. By May 2004, the entire album had been mixed by Jim Morris and mastered by Bernard Belley between June and September 2004.

Because the drums were recorded prior to the guitars, Bart had to write his guitar riffs so that they would complement the drums and not vice versa. Bart elaborated, "Following the September sessions I went back to work out the harmonies and write a whole new set of guitars trying to see them from a different point of view. The main challenge was to stay within the parameters of the drums – either that or we would have to re-record them again. So I had to be very creative to make the songs interesting without introducing new sections or tempo changes. This is why there are so many harmonies and counter melodies. It was challenging – often I would just jam to the recorded tracks for a long time trying to find a different vibe then that already recorded... this is best apparent on To the Bitter End or Tunnel Effect. If you listen to both guitars, they're doing widely different things yet compliment [sic] each other really well."

The title of the album was initially "To the Bitter End" as the band intended to "record, or mix, or master until we're 100% happy and NOT settle for compromises". Bart explained that the artwork did not fit with the title so the band thought of a newer title and decided upon Defiant Imagination.

Defiant Indoctrination, Live in Montreal (2005–2007)
In 2005, Defiant Indoctrination, a triple DVD documenting a concert in Montreal on May 7, 2005, was released. Produced by Bart and Roxy, the first two DVDs featured the concert, in which Defiant Imagination was performed in its entirety along with various other tracks from previous albums, and the third DVD contained drum footage of the entire show, focusing entirely on Yanic Bercier. The mix was handled by Jean-Francois Dagenais (Kataklysm, Misery Index) and Bart. Several guest musicians were featured on the DVD including the famous Quebec cellist Claude Lamothe, Alex Auburn of Cryptopsy fame, bassist Dominique "Forest" Lapointe of Augury/Atheretic/Negativa, and a classical choir and violinist.

In early 2006, William Seghers left the band in order to concentrate on Neuraxis and local progressive metal guitarist Marc-André Gingras of the MAG project was brought in to replace him. In summer 2006, Bart built his own home studio, 40 West Studio, and began working as a producer there with Roxanne as the studio technician. In November 2006, the official Quo Vadis forum was launched. In January 2007, Quo Vadis, along with Kataklysm, toured both Western Europe and Eastern Europe for the first time.

On May 12, 2007, Quo Vadis released Live in Montreal, a live album containing the audio of the 2005 DVD Defiant Indoctrination. In November 2007, Bart released a guitar and bass tabulature book for Defiant Imagination and was sponsored by German amp manufacturer, ENGL.

Line-up changes
On September 6, 2008, Quo Vadis played a concert at The Medley in Montreal, at which Stéphane Paré confirmed that Yanic and him would be leaving the band, leaving Bart as the only original member still left in the band. Bart speculated that the distance between the band and Yanic contributed to his departure; "With regard to Yanic, I know it was a very difficult decision to make on his part. People change, priorities change, personal situations change and he's been flying in from Tennessee for all the shows so you can imagine with the recent developments in the US/gas prices/travel and the fact that we were working remotely on the new record had probably something to do with it. I guess sometimes you have to make difficult decisions and this one was Yanic's. For sure on my end I will miss him on stage and working with him because he's been like a brother to me for 15 years and we've been through so much together." At the same show, Bart's right knee, which had both ligaments torn away in a sports injury, gave in completely and he supported his entire weight on his left knee for the rest of the show. However, this was to no avail as eventually Rob "The Witch" from Necronomicon and Stephane from BCI had to carry Bart around for the rest of the set, eventually having him sit up on a chair for the remainder of the show. Stéphane proposed cutting the show short but Bart refused and played on till the end. In the following months, both his knees had to have surgery.

After the September 6 show, with Stéphane, Yanic and Forest now gone and Bart unable to walk, rumors began to surface on the internet about Quo Vadis being disbanded entirely. However, on September 15 Bart posted a video on YouTube confirming the departures and dismissing the rumors about the break-up, adding that "a new line-up is in place and we actually have some shows scheduled in October and November... I have been sitting on literally two albums worth of material for the past two years that we were not able to finish for various reasons."

This changed line-up consisted of Patrice Hamelin (of Martyr) as drummer, Trevor Birnie (of Damascus & Annex Theory) as vocalist and Roxanne Constantin (of Negativa) as bassist and keyboardist. A rough mix of a new track, "Equilibrium", was released on the band's Myspace page on October 25, 2008. In late 2009, Trevor Birnie left the band's line-up and was replaced with Matthew Sweeney in early 2010 on vocals.

Musical style and influences
The band was heavily inspired by Metallica and Megadeth, since they started out by covering them, as well as Carcass, Death, hard rock, classical music, thrash metal. The Quo Vadis Demo and Forever... featured violin interludes and female operatic vocals, but by the band abandoned these for Day into Night as both those things had become prevalent in metal music, according to the band members. Day into Night was more aggressive and technical than the band's previous offerings, partially due to improved musicianship. Also, guitarist and vocalist Arie was taking guitar lessons from Alex Skolnick of Testament and as a result, he played a few solos on Day into Night and added a Testament influence to the band. One of Bart's biggest influences is Chuck Schuldiner, and Gene Hoglan's playing on Individual Thought Patterns and Sean Reinert's playing on Human are two of Yanic's biggest influences. The album Defiant Imagination features two songs written about Chuck which are also dedicated to him. For bass duties on Defiant Imagination, Bart had contacted Steve Di Giorgio who had played on Death's Individual Thought Patterns.

Final line-up

 * Matthew Sweeney – vocals (2010–2011)
 * Bart Frydrychowicz – guitar (1992–2011), vocals (1992–2002)
 * Marc-André Gingras – guitar (2008–2011)
 * Roxanne Constantin – bass (2008–2011), keyboards (2003–2008)
 * Patrice Hamelin – drums (2008–2011)

Former members

 * Arie Itman – guitar, vocals, violin (1992–2002)
 * Yanic Bercier – drums, vocals (1992–2008)
 * Remy Beauchamp – bass (1995–2002)
 * Stéphane Paré – vocals (2003–2008)
 * Trevor Birnie – vocals (2008–2009)
 * Daniel Mongrain – guitar

Session and guest musicians

 * Alex Auburn – guitar (2002, 2005)
 * Steve Di Giorgio – bass (2003)
 * Dominic "Forest" Lapointe – bass (2004–2008)
 * Sebrina Lipari – vocals
 * William Seghers – guitar (2003–2008)

Discography

 * Quo Vadis Demo (1995)
 * Forever... (1996)
 * Day into Night (2000)
 * Passage in Time (2001)
 * Defiant Imagination (2004)
 * Defiant Indoctrination (2005, DVD)
 * Live in Montreal (2007)

title: Quo Vadis (band)


text:
Talk:GForge

Updated
The old INRIAGForge (https://gforge.inria.fr/) is now powered by FusionForge (at the same URL). I deleted this line from the Installations sections. Weakpedia (talk) 08:42, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Untitled discussion
I just looked at the site and noticed that it contained just 2 projects... Is it really necessary to have an article about it? Or does this have other reasons? --Stefan Kögl 19:14, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The point of GForge is not to be a hosting alternative to SourceForge, but as a 'hosting platform' alternative to the now-closed source Sourceforge codebase. --LodeRunner 19:56, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Well GForge the software is pretty useful, even if GForge the website is only hosting itself. It might also be useful as support to SourceForge and GNU Savannah pages which would red-link it otherwise. And we have pages for plenty of less-capable pieces of software.

I didn't notice that when I created the page actually, so I probably put undue emphasis on the website, thinking that it was hosting the same sorts of things as Savannah. Ojw 20:15, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Perdue did a closed rewrite, same as VA?
If the page is going to continue having a snarky comment about VA closing SourceForge (and doing a rewrite in Java), it would be appropriate to also mention that Mr. Purdue (who leaves the comment about VA closing their source on the gforge.org project page) is selling his own closed rewrite...
 * —Hobart 21:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The page no longer has a "snarky comment" that I can see, and the closedness of GForge AS is mentioned. 151.203.203.100 05:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to update this page to add in the fact The GForge Group (http://gforgegroup.com) offer GForge Advanced Server which is related to this article. I understand that since I own the company this could be received as a marketing/advertising type ploy so I'm looking for advice on how to best edit this in. In particular, the current article says GForge is now FusionForge which is technically partially correct. However, Tim Perdue (who passed away in Sept. of 2011), did close the source and start our company. Admittedly, while a huge consumer of Wikipedia content I have never contributed and realize this is an open, organic effort. My only goal is to make sure the article includes the fact Tim did in fact found The GForge Group which, like FusionForge, is a fork of the open source GForge code now offered commercially. We can then look to add a separate entry about our company (which has it's own challenges being we are biased). Please advise... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gforgegroup (talk • contribs) 21:41, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * So, you guys fork SourceForge due to it becoming closed source and name it GForge, which you later close down too under name GForge AS and only FusionForge is true libre SourceForge. Every time I hear about "OpenSource" - every time - proprietary source comes out as result. Hypocrisy much? 77.180.112.65 (talk) 09:56, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Installations: closed or open?
Added a sort-of disclaimer to the installations section. Just checked LuaForge, and all they do is link back to gforge.org, but nothing indicated whether it is the old GForge SW or GForge AS (I tend to think it's the old, as I suspect GForge AS to also look different, but I cannot be certain). --jae (talk) 12:00, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:GForge


text:
Talk:Canadian Heraldic Authority

Hierarchy
Here it is http://www.heraldry.ca/top_en/top_cha_about.htm. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 18:03, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I had seen the page before and I used quite a lot of information from it when writng the article. --Mb1000 18:08, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I also think we should explain that section in the history/creation of the CHA. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:18, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Another link: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/F-11/SOR-91-168/text.html. This prescribes the payment and to whom it is made to. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:22, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. --Mb1000 21:45, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Your welcome. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 21:48, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I really appreciated the additions! --Mb1000 17:32, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Is this really any cheaper than the Lord Lyon? User:Shran 16 Aug 2005
 * It depends on the currency exchange rate, but most likely, going through here will be cheaper than going through Lord Lyon. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:48, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * South Africa's herald is supposed to be the cheapest legit herald. (for what that's worth) Shran  04:02, 17 August 2005
 * Well, if your South African, that is who you see. If your Canadian, you have to see the CHA. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 04:17, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Not always. The South African herald is a Commonwealth herald (since SA rejoined the commonwealth in 1994) and accepts registration of arms from all over the world.  So Canadians don't have to use the Canadian herald.  Best Wishes. Shran 00:27, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Offices of Arms Template
Hello. I'm working on a template of the different offices of arms in the CHA (similar to the College of Arms and Lord Lyon ones). If you can help me get rid of all the red links, then I think we can give it a go. The sandbox version is HERE. Thanks.-- E va   d  b  11:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Constitutionality
The constitutionality of the CHA has been questioned here. Does anyone know anything else about this argument? It seems pretty POV to me.-- Eva  b  d  19:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Not POV. The Charter bans discrimination by government agencies, whereas the CHA obviously discriminates, since it only grants/registers to those persons whom the Chief Herald views as suitable. The position of the CHA is that the Charter does not apply to it because the Office of the Governor General is not a government department. This position is legally dubious, but so far no one has challenged it in court.
 * Please sign your posts. Perhaps you could back up your claims with citations. Does the Chief Herald ever lay down the qualifications for obtaining a grant? It seems like it will be difficult to prove that he's being unconstitutional unless you can prove that he's rejected an applicant because of something besides money. From what I understand, in practical terms, the only reason that one might be rejected (at the CHA, Lord Loyn, and the CoA) is because they cannot pay the fees. I would be rejected because I'm not Canadian and do not live in North America. -- Eva  b  d  20:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

 * No, the Chief Herald does not publish the criteria for receiving arms, that's the problem. It's up to his personal discretion. Since Canada has a Charter of Rights that prevents discrimination by government, what the CHA is doing (i.e. discriminating) is unconstitutional, unless it isn't a branch of the Canadian government. See Lorne Gray's comments here: . Also see here  where Rafal Heydel-Mankoo writes: "I have also spoken with the heralds about this and petitions have indeed been rejected/denied. Several fairly recently as a matter of fact."
 * BB posts aren't sources wiki recognises as credible . Everyone not being granted something is not even vaguely a legally credible argument on discrimination the law is a much more subtle creature than that. Whatever next legal action unless every citizen is awarded the Order of Canada! As I'm hear the wording needs tightening on para 4 as Ireland had it's own heraldic authority for a while until it left the commonwealth in '49 Alci12 17:08, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Let's take another government department, say the Passport Office. The requirements for receiving a Canadian passport are listed on the Internet and elsewhere; they're certainly not kept secret.  If an applicant meets the published requirement (Canadian citizenship) and pays the required fee, (s)he is granted a passport.  Now we come to the Canadian Heraldic Authority.  The requirements for receiving a grant of arms are not published (just some nebulous wording about contributions to the community) and the director of the department can say yea or nay based on his own personal view of the applicant. While everyone knows before applying for a passport whether they are eligible (Canadian citizen? yes....eligible) no one applying for a grant of arms can say with any certainty until they are scrutinized by the Chief Herald. I quote from the CHA procedures manual : "The background information is therefore an important tool for the Chief herald of Canada to assess the eligibility of the request."  In other words, eligibility is "assessed" by the Chief Herald without any publicly-available standards of eligibility!  (The standards are what the Chief Herald says they are.)  Would Canadians stand for an official at the Passport Office deciding which Canadian citizens are worthy of receiving a passport?  Of course not!  So, how could anyone think that such a system of one-man rule at the CHA would pass muster in a Canadian court?  The only reason this has never reached a court is that, unlike the Passport Office, it is a government department that is little used or even known about by the general public. (Add to that the fact that most people who are refused arms would not want it publicized, and entering into litigation, especially against the government, would be quite expensive.)    The only out for the CHA is their claim NOT to be a branch of the Canadian government, but rather a vice-regal office that is beyond the reach of the Charter of Rights.  Yet, throughout this Wikipedia article there are claims that the CHA is part of the government.  Example: "The Government of Canada requires that the above processes be financed by the petitioner..."
 * Using the example of the passport is very helpful as it well illustrates why the honours comparison is wrong. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and a whole stack of international law enshrines a fundamental right to nationality in general (and a by inference a passport as a means to demonstrate and move by it - Articles 13&15). Just as there are rights protecting against torture and unlawful imprisonment so on. There is no right to be given honours, it's not a basic necessity of life to have a coat of arms. Nor is there are specific mentions in UDHR on making a decision using discretion. That wiki calls CHA part of the government is neither here nor there as wiki isn't writing Canadian law only an encyclopaedia.(Ed.) However I don' think this is getting us anywhere. What we need is sources. If you can provide an authoritative source(s) essentially making the case you have then it can be included in the article and more detail of his issue added. But I don't see how we can do anything without such source(s)Alci12 19:19, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Alci12, I don't know whether you are a Canadian, but perhaps you don't understand the importance of the Charter of Rights in Canadian law. I don't imagine that there's any international law guaranteeing the rights of gays & lesbians to be married, but we have it in Canada.  Why?  The Charter of Rights.  You say you want documentation.  Well, the Procedure Guide of the CHA is the documentation.  It states clearly that the Chief Herald assesses whether a person is qualified for a grant of arms.  Yet, the CHA does not provide to the applicant (or to anyone else)  the qualifications that any applicant has to meet.  Therefore, the Chief Herald basically makes it up as he goes.  Is the Chief Herald discriminating against Methodists?  Unlikely, but no way of knowing, since his decision-making is done in secret.  I'm sorry, but I think it's rather obvious on its face that this make-it-up-as-you-go, do-it-in-secret process just would not meet the non-discrimination requirements for a CANADIAN GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT.  If, on the other hand, the CHA is NOT a Canadian government department, then, yes, it can do as it pleases.  All I've done is raise the issue of the CHA's constitutionality; I did not state that it is unconstitutional, because it may, indeed, be beyond the reach of the Charter and other federal laws.  That is for a Canadian court to decide.
 * You may 'think it's rather obvious' but wiki really needs a legally authoritative source saying this. So for instance my broad point about honours and rights has been before the Canadian Courts (Black v Chrétien - Court of Appeal for Ontario) "The refusal to grant an honour is far removed from the refusal to grant a passport or a pardon, where important individual interests are at stake. Unlike the refusal of a peerage, the refusal of a passport or a pardon has real adverse consequences for the person affected. Here, no important individual interests are at stake. Mr. Black’s rights were not affected, however broadly "rights" are construed. No Canadian citizen has a right to an honour." Alci12 16:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That seems clear as day to me. Unless the unsigning poster has some proof with which to back up his claim, Alci has pretty well proven that the CHA is completely constitutional.-- Eva  b  d  19:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

As I understand it, the CHA claims that the registration of foreign arms is not an honour. However, the CHA has been known to deny this non-honour. That strikes me as constitutionally suspect. However, I think the section is inaccurate in claiming that the Chief Herald is the sole arbiter of anything. Both the Governor General and the Queen could overrule the Chief Herald. BTW, Canadians frequently use the expression "Government of Canada" in the U.S. American sense of the word "goverment." However, the Governor General is technically not part of the Government of Canada. That's why you don't see the Government of Canada logo on her Web site and why her Web site isn't in the "gc.ca" domain. The Government of Canada is everything that reports to the Prime Minister of Canada. Jonathan David Makepeace 21:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Canadian Heraldic Authority


text:
Olneyville, Providence, Rhode Island

Olneyville is a neighborhood in Providence, Rhode Island bordered by Atwells Avenue to the north, U.S. Route 6 to the south and Rhode Island Route 10 to the east. The Woonasquatucket River runs through the southern portion of the neighborhood. The area is roughly triangular.

Olneyville Square is a major traffic intersection in Olneyville, defined by the intersection of Westminster Street, Broadway, Hartford Ave, Plainfield Street, and Manton Avenue.

History

Native Americans were the first people to live on the land that is now Olneyville. The Narragansett tribe established their presence on the land long before Roger Williams consulted them and founded Providence Plantations, which came to be known as Providence, RI. Settlement in Olneyville began at Olneyville Square in the early 18th century as a center of trade with a nearby Narragansett village. The settlement grew significantly around 1785, after Christopher Olney, for whom Olneyville is named, founded a grist mill and a paper mill on a wide part of the Woonasquatucket River. Olney was a captain during the Revolutionary War and owned a 95-acre farm in the area. By the end of the American Revolutionary War, a forge and foundry and other small industries operated in Olneyville.

Through the mid-19th century, Olneyville developed as a railroad junction and a mill district, with much available employment. This helped attract many immigrants from overseas, including Guatemalans, Mexicans, Irish, Italians, Dominicans, Africans, Chinese, Vietnamese, and many others. However, the mill industries declined after World War II, causing economic decline. The construction of the Route 6 - Route 10 connector in the 1950s exacerbated these problems by separating Olneyville and other neighborhoods from the rest of the city. In the two decades that followed, Olneyville witnessed a substantial drop in its population.

On May 15, 1900, Olneyville was the site of one of the few occasions of "raining fish", when a late afternoon thunderstorm brought perch and bullspouts falling from the skies.

In the 1990s, Olneyville became nationally recognized as the home of the Fort Thunder artists collective and the Providence noise rock scene that included groups such as Lightning Bolt, Black Dice and Arab on Radar.

Redevelopment

Former warehouses and mill buildings in Olneyville were home to a number of artist collectives including Fort Thunder in the 1990s. Since 2000, many vacant lots and abandoned buildings have been purchased by developers who hope to rejuvenate the area.

However, proposals to redevelop the Olneyville area have met some local opposition, caused by fears of gentrification. In March 2007, the Olneyville Neighborhood Association (ONA) declared its opposition to plans from the United Way to move their headquarters from the East Side to 50 Valley Street in Olneyville. In July 2007, during a meeting of the Providence City Council, the ONA declared a "tax strike" to protest a proposed property tax increase. Residents of Olneyville and Silver Lake expressed concerns that the proposed tax increase would force poorer residents from their homes and declared that they would not pay the amount of any property tax increase.

Demographics
Olneyville's population, 6,495 in the 2000 US Census, is very diverse. As of the 2010 US Census, the racial and ethnic breakdown of Olneyville was 61% Hispanic; 16% White; 13% Black or African American; 4% Asian; 6% Other.

63% of public school children speak a language other than English as their primary language.

The housing stock is 18% owner-occupied and 12% single-family housing units, compared with 35% and 26%, respectively, for Providence overall (US Census 2000)

The median family income is $19,046, well below the citywide average of $32,058. 41.1% of families live in poverty while nearly one in four families receives some form of public assistance.

Rates of lead poisoning 14% of children younger than age 6 had elevated blood lead levels, some of the highest in Providence (2004–2008 RI Department of Health, KIDSNET data).

Of Olneyville's households, 41% report not owning a car (US Census 2000)

Only 3% of total births were less than 2500 g, one of the best rates in Providence (2007 RI Department of Health, KIDSNET data).

Of total births, 88% from 2006 to 2008 were to mothers with public insurance, which is one of the highest rates in Providence (1997–2008 RI Department of Health, KIDSNET data).

Government
Olneyville is divided west to east between Ward 6 and Ward 15. They are represented in the Providence City Council by Democrats Sabina Matos and Council President Pro Tempore.

Arts and culture
Olneyville is a number of art galleries and artists' studios, including Yellow Peril and GRIN, both of which are contemporary art galleries at The Plant, 60 Valley Street, as well as performance venues like Fete Music Hall and The Dirt Palace.

The Wilbury Theatre Group moved to its new space in Olneyville in the summer of 2017, where they perform a season of new and established plays.

The Manton Avenue Project, a play writing program for young people, has been based in Olneyville since 2004.

Parks
Olneyville has three parks, connected by the Woonasquatucket River Greenway and Bike Path. The three parks are: John Donigian Memorial Park on Valley Street, Riverside Park on Aleppo Street, and Joslin Park & Recreational area, on Florence Street.

Olneyville also has at least three community gardens and one school garden. Locals plan to organize a regular, seasonal farmer's market, as well.

Sports
Messer Street Grounds was home to the Providence Grays baseball team of the National League from 1878 to 1885.

title: Olneyville, Providence, Rhode Island


text:
W49B

W49B (also known as SNR G043.3-00.2 or 3C 398) is a nebula in Westerhout 49 (W49). The nebula is a supernova remnant, probably from a type Ib or Ic supernova that occurred around 1,000 years ago. It may have produced a gamma-ray burst and is thought to have left a black hole remnant.

Nebula
W49B is a supernova remnant (SNR) located roughly 33,000 light-years from Earth. Radio wavelengths show a shell four arc minutes across. There are infrared "rings" (about 25 light-years in diameter) forming a "barrel", and intense X-ray radiation coming from forbidden emission of nickel and iron in a bar along its axis. W49B is also one of the most luminous SNRs in the galaxy at gamma-ray wavelengths. It is invisible at optical wavelengths.

W49B has a number of other unusual properties. It shows x-ray emission from chromium and manganese, something seen in only one other SNR. The iron in the nebula is seen only in the western half of the nebula, while other elements are distributed throughout the nebula.

The outer shell is interpreted as a wind-blown bubble of molecular hydrogen within the interstellar medium, commonly seen around hot luminous stars. Away from the galactic plane, there is little gas and it is very faint optically. The shell is around 10 parsecs across and 1.9 parsecs thick. Inside the shell are the x-ray jets. Where the southeastern jet reaches the shell there is a bow-shock.

Supernova
The quantity of iron and nickel within the SNR, and its asymmetric nature, imply a jet-driven type Ib or Ic supernova produced by a star with an initial mass around. Such supernovae are thought to be the source of some long-duration gamma-ray bursts. The properties of the SNR suggest that the supernova occurred about 1,000 years ago.

Due to large amounts of galactic dust, the supernova would have been invisible to Earthly viewers.

The quantities of heavy elements such as chromium and manganese, produced by the explosive nucleosynthesis of silicon during the supernova itself, suggests that the explosion was not sufficiently energetic to produce a gamma-ray burst but does not rule it out entirely.

Remnant
The remnant from a core collapse supernova may be a neutron star or black hole. No neutron star can be detected within W49B although it would be expected to be clearly visible. This, and the models which best reproduce the nebula, imply that the remnant is a black hole.

title: W49B


text: Category:Scottish art

title: Category:Scottish art


text:
Tegueste

Tegueste is a town and a municipality of the northeastern part of the island of Tenerife in the Santa Cruz de Tenerife province, on the Canary Islands, Spain. It is surrounded by the municipality of San Cristóbal de La Laguna. The town Tegueste is located 4 km northwest of San Cristóbal de La Laguna and 11 km northwest of the island capital Santa Cruz de Tenerife. Tegueste became independent from San Cristóbal de La Laguna in the 17th century.

Currently, it is thought that the place name Tegueste is related to Thagaste, a city in Algeria where Saint Augustine of Hippo was born and a center of Berber culture.

title: Tegueste


text:
2006 Alaska gubernatorial election

The 2006 Alaska gubernatorial general election took place on November 7, 2006. The former mayor of Wasilla, Sarah Palin, defeated incumbent governor Frank Murkowski in the Republican primary, and then went on to defeat former governor Tony Knowles in the general election. Palin became the first governor of the state to be born after Alaskan statehood.

Palin would later become the unsuccessful Republican vice presidential nominee in 2008, before resigning as governor in 2009.

Republican primary
Incumbent Frank Murkowski (R), first elected governor in 2002, ran for reelection but was defeated in a landslide in the Republican primary by former Wasilla mayor Sarah Palin on August 22, 2006. Murkowski's approval rating at the time of the election was 19%. Murkowski also faced opposition from former state lawmaker and Fairbanks businessman John Binkley.

Democratic primary
Former two-term Governor Tony Knowles and state lawmaker Eric Croft competed for the Democratic ticket for governor. Knowles had a substantial lead over Croft, both at the polls and with fund raising.

Alaskan Independence Party

 * Don Wright – bush pilot, 2002 gubernatorial nominee

Green Party

 * David Massie

Libertarian Party

 * Billy Toien – 2002 gubernatorial nominee

Independent

 * Andrew Halcro – former Republican state representative, businessman

Campaign
Republican candidate Sarah Palin, Democratic candidate Tony Knowles, and independent candidate Andrew Halcro faced each other in the general election. Anchorage businessman Andrew Halcro ran as an Independent in the race for governor. Halcro has served in the Alaska State legislature in the past, and is known as a fiscal hawk. Halcro collected about 4,000 signatures to be placed on the general election ballot without party affiliation. Despite Knowles' experience, Palin was able to win.

title: 2006 Alaska gubernatorial election


text:
Tombs of the Nobles (Amarna)

Located in Middle Egypt, the Tombs of the Nobles at Amarna are the burial places of some of the powerful courtiers and persons of the city of Akhetaten.

The tombs are in two groups, cut into the cliffs and bluffs in the east of the dry bay of Akhetaten. There are 25 major tombs, many of them decorated and with their owners name, some are small and unfinished, others modest and unassuming. Each seems to reflect the personality and patronage of the tomb's original owner.

Northern tombs

These tombs are located in two groups in the cliffs overlooking the city of Akhetaten, to the north and east of the city. They are split into two groups by a wadi, and are near one of the Boundary Stelae (Stela V).

Desert altars
At a short distance to the west and north of the Northern Tombs lie the remains of three large mud-brick solar altars in the form of platforms with ramps. The reason for their location is not clear. Their connection with an ancient road leading to the Northern Tombs would seem to be a sign that they were for the benefit of those buried in them.

Southern tombs
The southern tombs are located in a series of low bluffs south and east of the main city. Associated with these tombs a recently discovered workers cemetery has been found.

Rediscovery and excavation
Some of the tombs have obviously been open since antiquity, and have been used variously as burial places in the Ptolemaic times, storehouses, houses and as Coptic churches.

title: Tombs of the Nobles (Amarna)


text: File:Sarahharem.jpg

title: File:Sarahharem.jpg


text: User talk:70.179.117.25

title: User talk:70.179.117.25


text: Category:Future

title: Category:Future


text:
Oğuz Çetin

Ahmet Oğuz Çetin (born 15 February 1963) is a Turkish football manager and former football player who played as a midfielder.

Career
Born in Adapazarı, Çetin began playing football with the local side Sakaryaspor. He started to play regularly for Fenerbahçe in 1988. He became one of the franchise players for Fenerbahçe and Turkish football generally. He is well known for his superior ability to organize the midfield and also had a decent vision, passing and shooting skills. He is known as "emperor" by Turkish soccer fans. Mostly walking on the pitch, Oguz Cetin was more of a distributor. Best known for his milimetric passes, he led Fenerbahçe to the championship in 1995–96 season but Fenerbahçe chairman Ali Haydar Şen released Oğuz Çetin and his fellow striker Aykut Kocaman with the thought they have been destroying the harmony in the team. Çetin played for Istanbulspor and Adanaspor after he was released by Fenerbahçe in 1996.

He was capped 70 times for the Turkey national football team. He represented his country at the 1996 UEFA European Championship in England.

After his playing career ended, Çetin became assistant manager for Fenerbahçe in 2002. After Werner Lorant's dismissal, he worked as a manager for Fenerbahçe. However, he failed to manage the team well. He also worked as a manager for Gençlerbirliği and Diyarbakırspor.

He signed a one-year contract with Azerbaijani football team Khazar Lankaran in June 2014, resigning in the December of the same year.

title: Oğuz Çetin


text:
File:Ancap chart.JPG

I am the author of this image and release it into the public domain.

title: File:Ancap chart.JPG


text:
Nam Kiwanuka

Mary Namugenyi "Nam" Kiwanuka (born Namugenyi Kiwanuka) is a Ugandan-Canadian television personality and journalist.

Kiwanuka came to Canada with her family in 1983, following the Ugandan Civil War. She was given the Anglo-Protestant moniker Mary. She was a VJ for MuchMusic from 1999 to 2003 and later hosted basketball and football programming on Rogers Sportsnet that included the weekly NBA XL program. She is currently a reporter and substitute anchor on TVOntario's newsmagazine series The Agenda. Kiwanuka has volunteered overseas for War Child Canada, Journalists for Human Rights and the Canadian Red Cross.

title: Nam Kiwanuka


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Captain Freedom

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Sasquatch′↔T↔C 03:32, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Captain Freedom
A student created program broadcasted on the college closed-circuit. No Google hits.

lots of issues | leave me a message 19:20, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, non-notable. --PrologFan | Talk 19:58, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as vanity. — Stevey7788 (talk) 21:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non notable student vanity. JamesBurns 08:10, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I bet if this was a Harvard show or a USC show, it'd be notable, but I guess since it's just dumb ol' UCSD, no one gives a damn, right? 142.179.211.200 18:21, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Boo hoo. I really feel for you, man. Delete. Binadot 03:30, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, student TV shows are not notable. Dcarrano 17:16, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, I'd vote for deletion even if it was a Harvard or USC show, mate. Unless the show had a great popculture impact, it shouldn't be here. Elefuntboy 00:06, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, non-notable. IINAG 22:18, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Northwest Corridor Express Lanes

The Northwest Corridor Express Lanes (formerly Northwest Corridor HOV/BRT) and locally known as the Tollercoaster, is a completed Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT) project which has put Peach Pass-only toll lanes along Interstate 75 (I-75) and I-575 in the northwestern suburbs of the Atlanta metropolitan area. It carries traffic between northwest Atlanta and Cobb and Cherokee counties by adding two lanes for paying vehicles along I-75, with one continuing up a dedicated exit onto I-575 to Sixes Road (mile 11, former exit 6), and the other straight on I-75 to Hickory Grove Road, just past Wade Green Road (mile 273, former exit 118). North of the interchange where they split, the new lanes are located in the median, between the original northbound and southbound lanes. From the Perimeter (I-285 on the north side) to I-575, the road had already been built with 12 to 16 lanes, which required other plans, including via eminent domain.

Original plans
HOV-only exits would be built at roads which currently cross the highways, but have no access to it. Bus stations would also be built at these points, with park-and-ride parking lots. New lanes would be divided from the regular ones by concrete barriers, not just by white double-stripes as was done by GDOT inside the Perimeter. There were originally no plans to allow or even design for later contraflow lane usage for rush hours.

Truck lanes
There were also plans to add two truck-only lanes in each direction, further expanding the highway by another six lanes (including emergency lanes). Separating traffic was proposed because it would smooth traffic and make the main lanes safer for cars. However, it would also effectively end the subsidy the industry gets by using roads which are mainly paid for by the public (in contrast with railroads, which maintain their own tracks and pay per-mile taxes on them on top of that).

Plans scaled back
Citing the enormous cost of the plan (around four billion dollars), in summer 2009 it was scaled back to putting two barrier-separated reversible lanes on I-75 to I-575, and one in the median on each road north of there. There would no longer be HOV exits on I-575, just slip roads to northbound and from southbound lanes for access to and from regular exits. It was not stated how much land would be taken on the southern portion. There was already a provision for a future HOV exit in the median at the Terrell Mill Road underpass, however the remainder has no median, only a wide left shoulder and a concrete barrier. It was also left unknown how the lanes would tie into the interchange at I-285.

Completion
The project was completed and opened to traffic on September 8, 2018. The Cobb County bus system (CobbLinc) and the state-funded commuter bus system (GRTA Xpress) shifted the bus routes previously using I-75 or I-575 to the express toll lanes. When the lanes were opened to the public on September 8 they were toll-free for a two-week trial period; however, all who used the lanes during that time were still required to have a Peach Pass (which has a minimum $20 toll load, plus other fees) to access it. Unlike the northeast express lanes on I-85 in Gwinnett, the northwest lanes charge a toll for high-occupancy vehicles and alternative-fuel vehicles. In 2018, the trade publication Roads & Bridges named the Northwest Corridor Express Lanes the number one road project of 2018 in the United States.

Future
The United States Department of Transportation awarded Cobb County a grant that will help pay for a project to install an exit ramp between the southern terminus of the express lanes and Akers Mill Road. The new ramp would improve access to Cumberland Boulevard from the express lanes. Cobb County's Department of Transportation expects to begin construction of the ramp in 2021.

Junction list
The mile markings of the express lanes shares the same numbering as the mainline interstates. The exits are not numbered.

title: Northwest Corridor Express Lanes


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Captain Invisible

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Sasquatch′↔T↔C 03:35, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Sasquatch′↔T↔C 03:39, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Captain Invisible
Member of a non-notable band already listed for deletion. See Votes for deletion/BODMAS John Barleycorn 19:20, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Nonsense. As an example, under film credits it says he played the part of the invisible car in Die Another Day. KeithD 19:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Let's help him help us by telling him to play the invisible article on Wikipedia. --Scimitar parley 19:34, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Agreed nonsense and not notable. Dwstein 19:37, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * He's real!!!!!!!!!!!!. Yer I seen him, well I aint seen him like that lol! but I talked to him occasionaly, you know pops round for the old cuppa once in a while. I say let him stay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOrd_Futhering-Smithe 20:51, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * OMG U R SO PHUNNY!!!!! Haha scimitar howd u come up with that joke about the invisible article, man you crack me up, nice one haha.seamus101 20:58, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, he's invisible anyways. Sasquatch′↔Talk↔Contributions 22:58, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not only invisible but not notable except for sock puppets. Capitalistroadster 23:36, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, and this guy has a lot of nerve berating other people about corny jokes! Dcarrano 23:43, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn unfunny vanity. --Etacar11 00:54, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Nonsense. Dragonfiend 03:47, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nonsense vanity. JamesBurns 08:11, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, he's invisible on the notable scale. IINAG 22:19, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete: As Above - The Time Killer

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User talk:Yoschka

origin theory
Do you have some relevant link or quote showing Roma people didn't originate from India, preferably backed by scientific research? There was recent dispute on Roma people article ago when some person pushed this opinion but was not able to show any other reference than his website, virtually ignored by anyone world (no links there). All linguistical and genetical studies I am aware had proven the India origin. I think the Wikipedia should not belittle any people with crank theories so I am trying to find what's the current state of knowledge. Thanks. Pavel Vozenilek 19:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Yoschka


text:
User:Hateads

I hate all commerical advertizing. I go to great lengths to retrieve my stolen web bandwidth, and go geek to expunge email spam. I hate mailwasher. Checking your email to check for spam before checking your email is retarded.

title: User:Hateads


text:
Talk:Wilfred Stamp, 2nd Baron Stamp

Untitled
This makes no sense. There's something wrong.

 * Dukedom of Suffolk, Second Creation (1514)
 * Charles Brandon, 1st Duke of Suffolk (1484-1545)
 * Henry Brandon, 2nd Duke of Suffolk (1535-1551)
 * Charles Brandon, 3rd Duke of Suffolk (1537-1551)

Either the reference to Henry Brandon holding the Dukedom for an hour is wrong, or the Duke of Suffolk page is wrong.

Given that the Duke of Suffolk page shows Henry Brandon as being 2nd Duke of Suffolk at the same time that Charles Branson is listed as being the 3rd Duke of Suffolk, I'm inclined to believe the latter; but then the question arises, who was Duke of Suffolk from 1535 to 1537?

There's a bunch of other stuff that's funny about the Duke of Suffolk page, but I won't get into it now. Vaxalon 19:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * No, that's perfectly sensible, those are birth and death dates, not the dates they held the Dukedom: Charles Brandon, born 1484, created Duke of Suffolk in 1514, died 1545. His son Henry, born 1535, would have inherited the Dukedom in 1545 on Charles' death, died 1551. Charles' younger son Charles, born 1537, inherited the Dukedom in 1551 on Henry's death, died of the same disease an hour later. -- Arwel 10:55, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

legal fiction
Is this really the only case in English legal history of a peer and heir dying in undetermined order, or is it just the most prominent example?--Pharos 00:03, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

citations to Kelly's Handbook
I have repeated the citation template in full because of an apparent difficulty in getting the subsequent abbreviation accepted. Others are welcome to condense.Cloptonson (talk) 20:46, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wilfred Stamp, 2nd Baron Stamp