text:
Talk:Wing loading

effect on performance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_loading#Effect_on_climb_rate_and_cruise_performance

the first paragraph is almost completely wrong.

 * A lighter loaded wing will have a superior rate of climb compared to a heavier loaded wing as less airspeed is required to generate the additional lift to increase altitude.

The climb performance depends on the amount of energy the motors can provide minus the amount of energy required to stay in the air divided by the weight of the plane. For example, a guy put a propellor and some bike pedals under his paraglider. Motor power (human power) was less than the power required to stay airborne. So he had very bad "climb performance" but still a low wingloading (as is normal with paragliders). So the wingloading DOES play a role, but it is not the main factor.

 * A lightly loaded wing has a more efficient cruising performance because less thrust is required to maintain lift for level flight.

This is completely wrong. The wingloading does not play a role at all. The amount of energy required to transport a weight over a distance is the weight * distance / glide ratio. Nowhere does the wing loading play a role.

Suppose I build an exact (1:1) copy of the 747 which is 100 times lighter. It will have a 100x lower wingloading, it will have 10x slower flightspeed, but the same glide ratio (about 14). To transport 1kg with either the real 747 or the copy takes the same amount of energy. Of course, to transport a ton of payload the original 747 will have to transport a whole 747 from A to B as well, so the lighter airplane will be more efficient. But that's because it's lighter and not because it has a lower wingloading. -- REW jan 31 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.36.47.159 (talk) 16:09, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

On further reading, the rest of the chapter is bogus as well. "how rapidly the climb is established" is the most glaring problem. It simply comes down to the energy equations. So the energy of the system is m*g*h + 1/2 m v^2. Depleted is: m * g * Sink-rate and added is motor-thrust * airspeed.

If you're in level flight and suddenly point the nose up, you trade speed (1/2 m v^2) for height (m.g.h). The accelleration required will cause an AOA change sufficient to provide the neccesary force.

(if you suddenly point the nose upward while almost at stallspeed, you will stall if the momentary AOA is too high...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.36.47.159 (talk) 17:22, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

An important aspect of wing loading that is not discussed in this article is that of the vertical acceleration of an aircraft as it encounters a vertical gust. When encountering vertical gusts, as the angle of attack and, therefore, the lift produced, changes, the aircraft with the higher wing loading will experience lower vertical acceleration due to its greater relative mass. The effect of this is that aircraft with high wing loadings ride more smoothly through turbulence. This is why modern jetliners handle turbulence so much more nicely than general aviation aircraft or older airliners. Perhaps this wording is not how it should appear in the actual article, but I think the article should mention this, since it's an effect most people will experience themselves, and a factor that is much more effected by wing loading than either cruising or climb performance. Harleygnuya (talk) 22:29, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Units
I'm no engineer, but if "wing loading is the loaded weight of the aircraft divided by the area of the wing" then in metric shouldn't it be measured in N/m² instead of kg/m²? Blaise 21:08, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Er... You're right, but strictly, N(Newton) is not just metric but SI. The "kg" in the article probably means "kgf" in fact... I'm sorry I was completely wrong. I didn't see the article well... See the discussions on talk:A/C project and its subpage for much more datails, if you're interested. - Marsian / talk 00:02, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * That loaded weight is a measurement of mass in kilograms or pounds, not of force in newtons or pounds-force or kilograms-force. That's the measurements we have.  I'm less certain of what should be measured for the "wing loading" quantity, and whether that should have dimensions of force divided by area (the same dimensions as pressure or stress), or of mass divided by area.  Gene Nygaard 00:40, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * At least one Japanese aeronautical engineer(Akira Azuma) uses N/m² for wing loading. Though in "Aircraft Design" by D.P.Raymer, lb/ft² and kg/m² are uesd (I'm not sure these are mass or force). - Marsian / talk 15:46, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Using mass/area would define wing loading so that it is the same for a particular aircraft independent of its location, whereas using force/area would make the wing loading of a particular aircraft dependent on whether the aircraft is sitting on earth, the moon, or flying through Jupiter. I would think that mass/area would be preferable because of its constancy, but I'm not an expert so I won't commit the article to one or the other.  Just a point. -Guest User 02:09, 16 February 2006

 * As a physicist, not an aerodynamicist It seems to me it doesn't much matter whether we use mass/ area (e.g. kg m-2) or force (weight)/area (e.g. N m-2) so long as we give the units. As Gene N says above, the figures we are usually given are masses (though we always call them weights!) in lb or kg.  We have to remember that if we want to equate (in level flight, say) the lift (force)/m2 to the wing loading and the latter is in (say) kg m-2, we need to multiply it by g = 9.81 m s-2 to go from mass to weight, from kg to N.TSRL (talk) 17:59, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

 * This needs to be corrected. POUNDS ARE NOT UNITS OF MASS. Wake up and smell the science. 76.252.78.92 (talk) 21:15, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

With respect, and in lower case, the pound is a unit of mass. Any scientific dictionary will tell you this. I have the paperback "A Dictionary of Physical Sciences" ed Daintith pub Pan)  in front of me and it defines the pound as "an imperial unit of mass equal to 0.453 592 37 kg".  There are related imperial force units: the poundal (force need to accelerate a mass of 1 lb at 1 ft/sec/sec); the pound-weight (symbol lbwt, the force that would accelerate a mass of 1 lb at the local value of g); and the pound force (lbf, the force that would accelerate a mass of 1 lb at a fixed value (standard acceleration) of  32.174 ft/sec/sec, not far from the value of g anywhere near the Earth's surface).

Aircraft "weights" are given in mass units, lb or kg; engine thrusts in force units, lbf or N.

In pounds-weight the gravitational force on a body stays the same wherever you are, because the unit depends on the local g value; the force in pounds-force or poundals does vary slightly with position, with g. So of course does the force in Newtons. If we measure the wing loading as mass/area which is the commonest way (ie in lb/ft2 or kg/m2) then g is not involved. If anyone were to use pounds-weight/area, that too would be position independent. I don't recall seeing anyone using (pounds-force or poundals)/ft2 either, though they might; N/m2 is used. All of these give a loading which is position dependent.

Do we need to worry about such variations when calculating a number not usually quoted to better than 1% (think of variations in mass during a flight, or even from one take off to the next)? The value of g is highest at the pole, greater than at the equator by a factor about 1.0053, or 0.5%. g also falls with height and it is easy to calculate that an aircraft (we are talking wing loading) at 20 km will experience a fall in g by about a factor 0.994, or a fall of 0.6%. So these effects, whilst real enough are probably not of much consequence to engineers. In any case, as I said in the usual mass/area units (rather than force/area) wing loadings are independent of position.TSRL (talk) 20:49, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Animal flight
I would really like to see some discussion of wing loading in flying animals. All the discussion ignores animals altogether, and perhaps the article should be reworded to reflect the fact that wing loading applies to more things than man-made aircraft. John.Conway 19:05, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes maybe someone could start with the Eagle family. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 20:51, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 10:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Range of values
This needs another look: there are many lower and higher values than quoted here and the impression is given, wrongly, that only fighters have high wing loadings. To pull out a couple of data, the little Cessna 152 has a WL of 51 kg m-2, and the Boeing 747 740 kg m-2. The data is on WikiP, but it would be nice to have a table: lowest (-ish) typical that, typical this - biggest (-ish) to give a better feel for the numbers. The intention of what we have is right but not the detail.

I think it might help, too, to spend a bit longer on wing loading and level fight, before getting into the manoeuverability issues. Needs a bit of thought and perhaps even a formula.TSRL (talk) 20:56, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Lift to mass (L/M)
Maybe I am being dim, but I'm baffled by the second sentence from the start, which talks of a broad connection between wing loading and L/M. The former is a well defined property of an aircraft at a given mass. The latter, particularly the lift depends on speed, altitude and attitude: it's not a property of an aircraft, or at least only an instantaneous one. Can there be a significant relationship?TSRL (talk) 21:42, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

 * For the record, this sentence was "It [the wing loading] is broadly reflective of the aircraft's lift-to-mass ratio, which affects its rate of climb, load-carrying ability, and turn performance." I removed it. TSRL (talk) 14:52, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

In Stick and Rudder, Langewiesche talks about the technical (read 'accurate') definition of "lift." An aircraft's lift at any given moment is congruent to its weight; otherwise it would balloon upward or descend. Langewiesche ends up using the term "buoyancy" to describe what this article terms as "lift," but only after an explanation that may not be appropriate here. In the interest of keeping Wikipedia accurate- semantically and otherwise- can anyone come up with a better way to refer to "lift?" --99.180.72.12 (talk) 03:56, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

 * The standard definition of lift (it is in, e.g. Anderson's "History of Aerodynamics", but I'm sure turns up in most aerodynamical texts) is that it is the aerodynamic force at right angles to the free stream velocity. The latter is the air velocity (speed and direction especially) of the air seen from the aircraft but measured far enough away for the air to be undisturbed by the plane.  A less formal definition, fine for aircraft if not for aerofoils in wind-tunnels is "the aerodynamic force at right angles to the flight-line".  This is the definition by diagram, if not always by text in introductions to flying such as The Air Pilot's Manual.

 * The magnitude of the lift depends on speed and angle of attack. Balancing forces, so that eg vertical accelerations (ballooning) are minimised still requires care: an aircraft in level flight (so with lift vertical) but pitched up will not have lift equal weight, even though these are co-linear, as there will be an extra vertical upwards component of force from the engine thrust, so lift here is less than weight.  Likewise, in the climb and assuming for simplicity the flight- and thrust lines are now co-linear, the component of weight at right angles to the flight-line is less than the weight.  Surprisingly perhaps the lift gets smaller as the climb gets steeper: the extra force is provided by the vertical component of thrust which does get bigger. TSRL (talk) 13:09, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

 * I've just noticed that the definition above is essentially identical to that in lift.TSRL (talk) 15:00, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

How aircraft climb!
Aircraft climb as a result of "excess power" not lift! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.129.221.252 (talk) 00:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Indeed so. That was the point I was making in the last para of the 13:09, 30 January note above, but I got it wrong in the article (last line on climb) by forgetting about the motor!  I've changed it now, with both upward components included.TSRL (talk) 20:02, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I also had the feeling that it got confusing there. I'm no specialist, but what I've always been taught in flight school is that a low wing loading allows for a greater angle of climb, not rate of climb. Angle of climb is basically how much altitude an aircraft gains while covering a certain ground distance, and it depends largely on the lift/drag ratio. Climb rate is basically how much altitude an aircraft gains in a certain time, that is, how "fast" and aircraft climbs, and that is the one that benefits from excess power. Since it also benefits from lower drag, it's taught that airplanes with a small wing area relative to their mass, that is, with a high wing loading, will have a higher rate of climb, while airplanes with a large wing area and a low wing loading will have a higher angle of climb. Cpt Vidal (talk) 05:49, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Wing area
Does the wing area given include that of the tailplane and/or other surfaces, e.g. canard wings? Thanks. --TraceyR (talk) 16:22, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

 * It wouldn't normally include the tailplane, canards I would think yes as they share the lifting load (in a canard with similar sized wings). Is that missing from the article or unclear? Have not looked myself. Cheers Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    22:21, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

 * I can't see any discussion in the article of the tailplane as a lifting surface. I imagine that, in 'conventional' aircraft, the tailplane provides lift to 'keep the tail up' as well as e.g. controlling pitch via elevators. I'm currently looking at a 1910 aircraft which had a main wing area of 38 sq.ft. and a tailplane area of 5.4 sq.ft. - not inconsiderable. If a tailplane has a suitable aerofoil section, it must contribute lift, surely? --TraceyR (talk) 06:45, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 * The tailplane may provide lift, depressing the nose, or it may raise the nose by providing negative lift. It is there partly to counter the net couple arising from the non-alignment of wing lift and weight, added to that from the non-alignment of thrust and drag.  So the lift the tailplane generates depends on its incidence, chosen to provide a compensating couple as the aircraft is trimmed.  The tailplane incidence is normally less than that of the wing, because then (for example) a drop of the nose makes the tailplane's incidence negative, providing a nose raising downforce on the tail.
 * So the area of the tailplane is interesting but not to be added to the wing area. Even with the tail out of the way, there are lots of ambiguities in the definition of wing area.  Should we include aileron area?  Flight's articles from the early days used to separate the two.  Modern sources never do; I guess ailerons are included, but not sure.  What about flaps etc?  Even with the dangly bits accounted for, there are still different practices on what to do at the root.  Include fillets? Include the projected area to the centre line, even though this includes non-lifting fuselage?   Some do (there is a ref somewhere I'll try to dig out). There was a discussion about wing area for the geometrically simple Boulton Paul P.111, though the puzzle was not solved.  Nightmare!  Cheers, TSRL (talk) 09:13, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 * See :http://adg.stanford.edu/aa241/wingdesign/winggeometry.html on definitions of wing area.TSRL (talk) 09:30, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the comments. I'll ignore the tailplane in this case. It's strange that there is apparently no universally accepted 'right' way to calculate wing area. This also means of course that "wing loading" is just as vague. --TraceyR (talk) 16:32, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Most of the vagueness is removed when the manufacturer supplies the figures (i.e. they worked out what the wing area actually is or more likely they initially designed it to have a certain wing area and loading), which is probably the case for most of our aircraft type specification tables. Wing span is another tricky one, it's the distance between the wing tips but not necessarily the length of the wings!! I do have quite a few reference books showing how to calculate wing area but they are mainly for model aircraft (the same principle applies). I use an Excel programme for calculating model glider wing loading, moment arms, stability and centre of gravity numbers, the dimensions of a single wing (one side but might be multiple panels) have to be input so there at least the fuselage is not counted. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    22:06, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Apropos of nothing, I remember a doumentary film which showed an F15 (or was it an F16?) which lost a wing in flight but which the pilot managed to land safely, because the fuselage and wing root provided enough lift! The pilot might even have been unaware of the extent of the damage. --TraceyR (talk) 22:43, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 * It was an Israeli F-15 I think, mid-air collision. Certainly some aircraft are designed to use the fuselage as a lifting surface, there is a section on it in this article. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by)    22:47, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Climb rate and cruise performance
The entire section titled Effect on climb rate and cruise performance is unsourced. In its entirety, it is technically unsound. It appears to have been written using nothing but intuition. For example, it implies that for an aircraft to climb requires that lift exceed weight. That is incorrect - climbing requires that thrust exceed drag. See Rate of climb and Angle of climb.

I am happy to re-write the section, based on reliable published sources. But first I will erase the entire section. It is worse than misleading. Dolphin ( t ) 05:10, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

 * I have erased the offending section. See my diff. Dolphin  ( t ) 05:11, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wing loading


text: User talk:71.247.30.130

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:71.247.30.130


text:
Operation Himmler

Operation Himmler, also called Operation Konserve, consisted of a group of 1939 false flag undertakings planned by Nazi Germany to give the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany. The Germans then used propaganda reports of the events to justify their invasion of Poland, which started on 1 September 1939. Operation Himmler included the Germans staging false attacks on themselves—directed at innocent people, such as civilians and concentration camp prisoners. The operation arguably became the first act of the Second World War in Europe.

Planning
Prior to the 1939 invasion, German newspapers and politicians like Adolf Hitler carried out a national and international propaganda campaign accusing Polish authorities of organizing or tolerating violent ethnic cleansing of ethnic Germans living in Poland.

The plan, named after its originator, Heinrich Himmler, was supervised by Reinhard Heydrich and managed by Heinrich Müller. The goal of this false flag project was to create the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany, which could be used to justify the German invasion of Poland. Hitler also might have hoped to confuse Poland's allies, the United Kingdom and France, into delaying or stopping their declaration of war on Germany.

Implementation
The operations were mostly carried out on 31 August. The operation, as well as the main German offensive, was originally scheduled for 26 August; the shifting diplomatic situation resulted in delay until 31 August and 1 September. The operations were carried out by agents of the SS and the SD. The German troops, dressed in Polish uniforms, would storm various border buildings, scare the locals with inaccurate shots, carry out acts of vandalism, retreat and leave behind dead bodies in Polish uniforms. The bodies were really prisoners from concentration camps who were dressed in Polish uniforms, killed by lethal injection, shot for appearances and left behind. They were described in plans as Konserve: canned goods, which also led to the informal name of the operation, Operation Konserve.

There were several separate operations, including staged attacks on the following:
 * The strategic railway at Jablunka Pass (Jabłonków Incident), on the border between Poland and Czechoslovakia
 * The German radio station Sender Gleiwitz (Gliwice), the Gleiwitz incident being arguably the most notable of the Operation Himmler operations
 * The German customs station at Hochlinden (now part of Rybnik-Stodoły)
 * The forest service station in Pitschen, now Byczyna
 * The communications station at Neubersteich, which was Nieborowitzer Hammer before 12 February 1936 and is now Kuznia Nieborowska
 * The railway station in Alt-Eiche (Smolniki), Rosenberg in Westpreußen District
 * A woman and her companion in Katowice

Gleiwitz incident

On the night of 31 August a small group of German operatives, dressed in Polish uniforms and led by Alfred Naujocks, seized the Gleiwitz radio station and broadcast a short anti-German message in Polish (sources vary on the content of the message). Several prisoners (most likely from the Dachau concentration camp) and a local Polish-Silesian activist (arrested a day earlier) were left dead on the scene in Polish uniforms.

Aftermath
In his 1 September speech to the Reichstag announcing war, Hitler cited the 21 border incidents as justification for Germany's "defensive" action against Poland:

"I can no longer find any willingness on the part of the Polish Government to conduct serious negotiations with us. These proposals for mediation have failed because in the meanwhile there, first of all, came as an answer to the sudden Polish general mobilization, followed by more Polish atrocities. These were again repeated last night. Recently in one night, there were as many as twenty-one frontier incidents: last night there were fourteen, of which three were quite serious. I have, therefore, resolved to speak to Poland in the same language that Poland for months past has used toward us... This night for the first time Polish regular soldiers fired on our own territory. Since 5:45 a. m., we have been returning the fire... I will continue this struggle, no matter against whom, until the safety of the Reich and its rights are secured"

By mid-1939, thousands of Polish Volksdeutsche had been secretly prepared for sabotage and guerrilla warfare by the Breslau (Wrocław) office of the Abwehr. Their activities were meant to provoke anti-German reprisals that could be claimed as provocations.

The German agents indeed co-operated with the German forces during the invasion of Poland, which led to some reprisals that were highly exaggerated by the German propaganda. One of the most notable cases of such a scenario was reportedly carried out during Bydgoszcz Bloody Sunday. An instruction issued by the Ministry of Propaganda stated that the press

"must show news on the barbarism of Poles in Bromberg. The expression "bloody sunday" must enter as a permanent term in the dictionary and circumnavigate the globe. For that reason, this term must be continuously underlined."

The operation convinced very little international opinion about the German claims.

title: Operation Himmler


text:
Peter Heck

Peter Jewell Heck (born September 4, 1941, in Chestertown, Maryland) is an American science fiction and mystery author. His books include the "Mark Twain Mysteries"—historical whodunits featuring the famous author as a detective—and four books in the "Phule's Company" series, in collaboration with Robert Asprin, best described as "F-Troop in space". He also wrote the 36th chapter of Atlanta Nights, a book meant to ruin PublishAmerica's reputation.

Heck has also been an editor at Ace Books (where he edited Lynn S. Hightower and Robert J. Sawyer, among others), and created the SF newsletter Xignals and its mystery equivalent Crime Times for the Waldenbooks chain. He is also a regular reviewer for Asimov's Science Fiction and Kirkus Reviews.

In 2007, Heck began working as a reporter at the Kent County News in Chestertown, MD, where he and his wife moved after a number of years in Brooklyn, NY. His work for the paper includes articles on local government and history, health, environment, and the arts; it has won several awards from the MDDC Press Association. He also plays guitar and banjo in a local band, Col. Leonard's Irregulars. In 2017, Heck and his wife became editors of The Chestertown Spy, an online newspaper.

Novels

 * The Mark Twain Mysteries

 * Phule's Company with Robert Asprin

title: Peter Heck


text:
Hope Street, Liverpool

Hope Street in Liverpool, England, stretches from the city's Roman Catholic cathedral, past the Anglican cathedral to Upper Parliament Street and it is the local high street of the Canning Georgian Quarter. It contains various restaurants, hotels and bars and is one of Liverpool's official 'Great Streets' and was also awarded 'The Great Street Award' in the 2012 Urbanism Awards, judging it to be the best street in the country. The road runs parallel to Rodney Street. Together with Gambier Terrace and Rodney Street it forms the Rodney Street conservation area.

The years immediately after the Millennium saw the public realm of Hope Street enhanced and the Hope Street area has sometimes been referred to as the Hope Street Quarter.

The street is named after William Hope, a merchant whose house stood on the site now occupied by the Philharmonic Hall.

Hope Street was voted as the best street in the UK and Ireland by The Academy of Urbanism, who awarded it The Great Street 2013.

History
Hope Street was straightened during the 1790s and residential construction commenced around the turn of the century. The Liverpool Philharmonic Hall (home of the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Society) stands on the corner of Myrtle Street and Hope Street. It was designed by Herbert James Rowse and built between 1936 and 1939. This replaced the original building built 90 years earlier to designs by John Cunningham that burned down in 1933. It is built of brick and is starkly cubic in appearance except for a pair of rounded stair-towers to the front. The first floor windows and main entrance doors have etched glass by Hector Whistler. On Hope Street at the top of Mount Street (where stands LIPA and the former Liverpool Institute for Boys) is the interesting sculpture "A Case History" by John King, 1998. Various items of luggage, cast in concrete, are stacked on the pavement – the labels on the suitcases refer to notable individuals and institutions linked with the local area. Facing the Anglican Cathedral on Hope Street is Gambier Terrace of which numbers 2–10 were built between 1832 and 1837 by the developer Ambrose Lace, to a design in ashlar ad stucco often attributed to John Foster Jr. The terrace was extended between the late 1830s and early 1840s. At the northern end of Hope Street is the Roman Catholic Metropolitan Cathedral and, towards the southern end, the Anglican Cathedral.

Notable buildings and places of interest

 * Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral
 * Liverpool Medical Institution
 * Liverpool Masonic Hall
 * Everyman Theatre
 * Philharmonic a Grade II* listed pub
 * Statue of Hugh Stowell Brown
 * Liverpool Philharmonic Hall
 * Hope Street Hotel
 * Unity Theatre, Hope Place
 * Ye Cracke, Rice Street
 * Sheppard-Worlock Statue
 * Blackburne House
 * Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts (LIPA), Mount Street
 * Liverpool College of Art
 * Liverpool Cathedral
 * St James Mount and Gardens
 * Gambier Terrace, running along Hope Street
 * Hope Street Unitarian Chapel

title: Hope Street, Liverpool


text:
Talk:Ionians

considered themselves to be divided into
WTF?! rewrite that — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.149.173.190 (talk) 12:05, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Comments
Corrected some errors. Needs more information about the earlier Yawones and also some linguistic theories. The mythology could be brought in.

inconsistancy

 * On the disambiguation page for Ionian there is a claim that the ancient greeks were divided into four groups. here, the first sentance says three.  Which is correct and why? --129.25.4.74 16:40, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You are right they are actually four. The Achaeans (i.e. Mycenaeans) are generally forgotten in the historical period (after 8th century BC) because they are only found in Arcadia and Cyprus. I will correct it. --Kupirijo 03:20, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You are wrong, there are three. The tradition of the ethne comes from classical times. The main ref is in Herodotus, who says there are three. The Achaeans appear extensively in Homer, where they are also Danaans, Argives and Hellenes. The term Achaean included everyone in southern and eastern Greece, including Athens. The eastern sources - Biblical, Egyptian - make it clear that the foreigners considered them all Ionians. Pelasgian is used quite a lot; the Pelasgians were operating with and were part of the Achaeans. Then the war was over and a period of turbulence followed, a "dark age." When the smoke cleared the Dorians were in the Peloponnesus, Crete and some of the islands. The Ionians had been pushed out of the Peloponnesus except for populations now subordinate. The term Achaea remained to a small state in northern Peloponnesus. I do not believe the inhabitants of Arcadia called themselves Achaeans or those of Cyprus either, but in any case in Mycenaean times they were all Ionians. Ionia was left to a small group of settlements in Anatolia but the Athenians also were considered Ionians. The Aeolians - a fact which so far escapes Wikipedia entirely - is the name given to the population of Boeotia and a small collection of settlements in Anatolia. The Aeolians were pushed out of Thessaly by the Dorians, where they were definitely among the earlier Ionians. So, the classical authors for the most part understood that the remnant Achaeans had been mainly the Ionians. So, your error is as follows. Bottom line: it is oversimple, compressing diachronic complexity into a single mythic unspecified time that you consider to have been contemporaneous. In Homeric times representing Mycenaean times there were Hellenes/Achaeans/Argives/Danaans (southern Greek) and possibly Dorians (northern Greek). In classical times there were Ionians, Aeolians and Dorians according to the traditions and Greek dialects. I believe the population of the rump state of Achaea had been Dorianized and was speaking Dorian. Everyone was considered a Hellene. The Danaans were gone. The Argives were the rump state of Argos which had been Dorianized and were speaking Dorian. A remnant of Mycenaean Greek (a southern Greek dialect) was being spoken in Arcadia and on Cyprus but as I say I do not believe they considered themselves Achaeans, who were the Dorianized rump state. The term "Achaean" as you use it is a synthetic construct devised by Müller and published in 1824? I think you are beginning to see that the article is totally inadequate for the concept. So far it has escaped attention. There are no line references here. That is because it is a relatively major research project for some happy editor with the inclination to do it and none has come forward. I started on Dorians first, which is why you do not see me here. Eventually if no one else undertakes it you will and you may anyway. By the way I think the Greek History box goes here. Meanwhile I refrain from loading the article up with templates as I do not wish to get further involved at this moment.Dave (talk) 19:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

are you sure about that? i think it is widely accepted that there were four tribes. at around 2000 BC the ionians, the achaeans and the aioleans came to greece from the north. these are indoeuropean tribes. the achaeans along with the indigenous pelasgians started the mycenean civilization. some of the pelasgians where assimilated along with achaeans but some of them were pushed to the mountains of arcadia. From peloponesus the acheans travel to crete and rodes at around 1400 BC and in 1193 BC along with all other greeks they fight the trojans. At that time the dorians werent at greece. The dorians, who are about to come, either assimilate the achaeans or they kill them. So im quiet sure there were four tribes. Achaeans aioleans and ionians at first and a 1000 years after them the doric invasion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timpap (talk • contribs) 22:53, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

unintelligible
This sentence doesnt work syntatically and it isnt clear which "name" is meant: "They were then prior to Dorian dominance in Crete, if the name refers to Cretans." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemccan (talk • contribs) 16:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

no —Preceding unsigned comment added by Timpap (talk • contribs) 22:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Map
I am from turkey and ı want ot tell you about photo which shows ionia. İzmir/Smyrna is an aeolis city. Then it became an ionia city, like halikarnassos(it is a dor city), so if you want to show ionia, you will take a photo of south izmir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.240.110.184 (talk) 22:09, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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Odd statement
In the "Biblical" sub-section of the "Name" section on this page there is an odd line:

"The date of the Book of Isaiah cannot precede the date of the man Isaiah, in the 8th century BC."

I'm not exactly sure what this is trying to get at. Maybe it's trying to compare the antiquity of the reference in Isaiah to the antiquity of the other sources? It seems like this should be reworded, such as something like "This reference has been traditionally dated to the lifetime of the Isaiah in the 8th century BC, modern scholars usually date the Book of Isaiah to X year", not sure what the current consensus is on that. On a side note, it is very possible that sections and traditions within the Book of Isaiah could pre-date Isaiah. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.238.185 (talk) 13:39, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ionians


text:
ETL SEMKO

ETL SEMKO (formerly Electrical Testing Laboratory) is a division of Intertek Group plc (LSE: ITRK) which is based in London. It specializes in electrical product safety testing, EMC testing, and benchmark performance testing. ETL SEMKO operates more than 30 offices and laboratories on six continents. SEMKO (Svenska Elektriska Materielkontrollanstalten "The Swedish Electric Equipment Control Office") was, until 1990, the body responsible for testing and certifying electric appliances in Sweden. The "S" mark was mandatory for products sold in Sweden until the common European CE mark was adopted prior to Sweden's accession to the European Union.

title: ETL SEMKO


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stara navika

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. jni 07:52, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Stara navika
Well, if the new proposal for non-notable bands passes, this will be a speedy candidate. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 21:08, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn promisingcruft. This is also the kind of thing that will test the new 'does not assert notability' policy, since that has passed. -Splash 21:53, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * You what? How did that pass? What was the score? Grace Note 04:18, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Proposal 1 from WP:CSD/Proposal, about "unremarkable people". About 74%. The bands proposals actually all failed, but I was referring more generically to the use of the "promising young" claim. Don't need a discussion of that here, but I can see some editors taking that as a claim to notability. -Splash 14:18, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete no claim to notability. -- Etacar11   23:57, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non notable band. Fails WP:MUSIC guidelines. JamesBurns 08:26, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, fails WP:MUSIC. Dcarrano 14:54, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FinlanD

I suggest this page be deleted instead of redirected, because the title is a typo. --Janke | Talk 21:08, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FinlanD


text:
User talk:Live 8 live 8

Orphaned non-free image (Image:Chris-curtis.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Chris-curtis.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Aksibot 10:01, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Live 8 live 8


text:
Talk:Pir Nasir Khusraw

Should the Pir be part the article name? Presumably the person was called Nasir Khursraw(or variations) and the Pir is a title? JohnCastle 21:09, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pir Nasir Khusraw


text:
User:Netoholic/Watchlist

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title: User:Netoholic/Watchlist


text:
PLGA

PLGA, PLG, or poly(lactic-co-glycolic) acid (CAS: ) is a copolymer which is used in a host of Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved therapeutic devices, owing to its biodegradability and biocompatibility. PLGA is synthesized by means of ring-opening co-polymerization of two different monomers, the cyclic dimers (1,4-dioxane-2,5-diones) of glycolic acid and lactic acid. Polymers can be synthesized as either random or block copolymers thereby imparting additional polymer properties. Common catalysts used in the preparation of this polymer include tin(II) 2-ethylhexanoate, tin(II) alkoxides, or aluminum isopropoxide. During polymerization, successive monomeric units (of glycolic or lactic acid) are linked together in PLGA by ester linkages, thus yielding a linear, aliphatic polyester as a product.

Copolymer
Depending on the ratio of lactide to glycolide used for the polymerization, different forms of PLGA can be obtained: these are usually identified in regard to the molar ratio of the monomers used (e.g. PLGA 75:25 identifies a copolymer whose composition is 75% lactic acid and 25% glycolic acid). The crystallinity of PLGAs will vary from fully amorphous to fully crystalline depending on block structure and molar ratio. PLGAs typically show a glass transition temperature in the range of 40-60 °C. PLGA can be dissolved by a wide range of solvents, depending on composition. Higher lactide polymers can be dissolved using chlorinated solvents whereas higher glycolide materials will require the use of fluorinated solvents such as HFIP.

PLGA degrades by hydrolysis of its ester linkages in the presence of water. It has been shown that the time required for degradation of PLGA is related to the monomers' ratio used in production: the higher the content of glycolide units, the lower the time required for degradation as compared to predominantly lactide materials. An exception to this rule is the copolymer with 50:50 monomers' ratio which exhibits the faster degradation (about two months). In addition, polymers that are end-capped with esters (as opposed to the free carboxylic acid) demonstrate longer degradation half-lives. This flexibility in degradation has made it convenient for fabrication of many medical devices, such as, grafts, sutures, implants, prosthetic devices, surgical sealant films, micro and nanoparticles.

PLGA undergoes hydrolysis in the body to produce the original monomers: lactic acid and glycolic acid. These two monomers under normal physiological conditions, are by-products of various metabolic pathways in the body. Lactic acid is metabolized in the tricarboxylic acid cycle and eliminated via carbon dioxide and water. Glycolic acid is metabolized in the same way, and also excreted through the kidney. The body also can metabolize the two monomers, which in the case of glycolic acid produces small amounts of the toxic oxalic acid, though the amounts produced from typical applications are minuscule and there is minimal systemic toxicity associated with using PLGA for biomaterial applications. However, it has been reported that the acidic degradation of PLGA reduces the local pH low enough to create an autocatalytic environment. It has been shown that the pH inside a microsphere can become as acidic as pH 1.5.

Biocompatibility
Generally PLGA is considered to be quite biocompatible. Its high biocompatibility results from its composition due to lactic and glycolic acid fermentation from sugars, making them eco-friendly and less reactive in the body. PLGA also degrades into non-toxic and non-reactive products that makes them quite useful for various medical and pharmaceutical applications.

The biocompatibility of PLGA has been tested both in vivo and in vitro. The biocompatibility of this polymer is generally determined by the products that it degrades into, as well as the rate of degradation into degradation products. The way that PLGA degrades is by means of an enzyme known as esterase, which forms lactic acid and glycolic acid. These acids then undergo the Krebs Cycle to be degraded as carbon dioxide and water. These byproducts then get removed from the body through cellular respiration and through the digestive process.

While the byproducts usually do not accumulate in the body, there are instances where these byproducts (lactic and glycolic acid) can be dangerous to the body when accumulated in high local concentrations. There can also be small pieces of the polymers as the polymer degrades, causing an immune response by macrophages. These adverse effects can be reduced by using lower concentrations of the polymer, so that it gets naturally released throughout the body.

Something else to consider regarding PLGA biocompatibility is the location at which the polymer is implanted or placed in the body. There are different immune responses that the body could have depending on where the polymer is placed. For example, in drug delivery systems (DDS), PLGA and PLA implants with high surface area and low volume of injection can increase one's chance of immune response as the polymers degrade in the body.

Biodegradability
The biodegradation of PLGA makes it useful for plenty of medical practices. PLGA undergoes bulk degradation, which is when a catalyst such as water inserts itself throughout the matrix of the polymer. A 75:25 lactide to glycolide PLGA ratio can be made as microspheres that degrade via bulk erosion. This allows degradation throughout the whole polymer to occur equally.

Another injectable form of PLGA was developed to have eroding systems. This form can be used in Lupron Depot. To achieve this, PLGA is mixed with an organic water-miscible solvent approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Once the PLGA is mixed into the solvent with the drug of choice to create a homogeneous solution or suspension. When this mixture is injected, the PLGA solidifies due to water insolubility and is replaced by the water. Slowly, the drug is delivered from the solution. A problem that may occur is during the initial injection, the drug may be released in a quick burst instead of gradually.

Examples
Specific examples of PLGA's use include:
 * Synthetic Barrier Membrane by Powerbone: This device is a resorbable synthetic membrane that acts as an alternative to polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE), which is a synthetic polymer often used in dental implants and many other applications. The synthetic barrier membrane is used specifically in dental implants and for guided tissue regeneration (GTR) as well as guided bone regeneration (GBE). Some are biodegradable membranes, while others are not, and are typically correlated with more surgical complications. In general, these membranes are important to provide biocompatibility, biosafety, barrier function, and mechanical properties to the implant. They are also typically bioactive, promoting the regeneration of tissues around the site of implantation.
 * Lupron Depot: This is a drug delivery device that helps treat prostate cancer and has been used to treat other types of similar cancers. It is also known as leuprorelin or leuprolide. PLGA is used as a key component in this drug, in the form of microparticles to deliver the drug into the body over a period of 1 week to 6 months. This drug is typically used as an alternative to radiation therapy, and is considered to be quite effective as it reduces the levels of testosterone in the body, slowing the effects of the cancer. There are many side effects of this drug, including muscle loss, hot flashes, fatigue, osteoporosis, growth of breast tissue, and many others.
 * Prophylactic delivery: This refers to preventative healthcare that is meant to prevent infections or other illnesses. One case of prophylactic delivery involving PLGA is for the antibiotic vancomycin, which is typically injected after brain surgery to prevent infections from bacteria including Staphylococcus aureus.

title: PLGA


text:
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airlines/Affinity programs

Affinity programs, what are they?
I see affinity programs being:
 * Code shares
 * Frequent flyer programs
 * Airport lounge access programs
 * Category:Airline alliances

With the possible exception of the alliances, using common templatees does not work since not all airlines share in these programs equally. Airline 1 may code share will airline 2 but not airline 3. Airline 1 may offer club access with airline 3 but not airline 2.

This leaves open the issue of how to provide this information. The options include:
 * Placing a Category in each article as required
 * Listing these within the article in list format pointing to the main article on the prorgrams (if there is one)

With different programs and members this could amount to a lot of data. It does change, but not all that frequently. Vegaswikian 21:13, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Take a look at America West Airlines and see if that looks like a good way to place this information. Vegaswikian 17:58, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I know what it is!

 * Basically... Affinity programs should be the airline Frequent Flyer program. (ex. WorldPerks, Mileage Plus, Flying Blue, Miles & More, Dividend Miles) That's how it SHOULD be.


text:
Dumble Amplifiers

Dumble was a guitar amplifier manufacturer in Los Angeles, California.In the one-person operation, Alexander "Howard" Dumble (June 1, 1944 – January 16, 2022) made each amp personally. Because of this, Dumble amplifiers are the most expensive boutique amplifiers on the used market, and prices have risen rapidly. In 2012, Vintage Guitar magazine described the Dumble Overdrive Special as the most valuable in the product line, with used amplifiers fetching between $70,000 and $150,000. Other examples have sold for more.

Dumble built two or three amplifiers per year, primarily for celebrity musicians and studios. He priced them similarly to the used market to dissuade resale. Dumble serviced and refurbished his original amplifiers for a fee, and many players would buy used Dumble amplifiers and have Dumble refurbish them. Carlos Santana and Ben Harper, for example, both bought their first Dumble used, and had Dumble refurbish the amp for their particular playing styles.

History
Howard Alexander Dumble began modifying Fender tweed and blackface amplifiers in 1963. Before he was 21, Mosrite, in Santa Cruz, hired Dumble to build a special line of Amplifiers for The Ventures. By the late 1970s, he was modifying and building high-gain amps in the way that Randall Smith of Mesa Boogie, and others did. Dumble, however, was not interested in selling amplifiers in greater numbers, but focused solely on getting the best possible sound. Building to order only (even building his own speaker cabinets by hand), his amps gained a positive reputation and became highly sought after by professional musicians. Dumble became known as a tube electronics master, and his high end clientele gained him a reputation as a reclusive amplifier tech to the stars.

Much of the company's PR over the years has been word of mouth. Howard Dumble did some interviews and advertisements in the 80s—but few people knew about him, even in the professional music community. Carlos Santana, for instance, only heard of Dumble in reference to Stevie Ray Vaughan in the late 90s. After someone loaned him an amplifier (it wasn't for sale) he "was hooked for life." He subsequently contacted Howard Dumble, and was able to buy a used amp and have Dumble refurbish it. Reportedly he has since bought more.

Since the 1980s, Dumble covered the preamp circuitry of his amps with a thick layer of usually opaque epoxy, presumably protecting his circuit's exact design from prying eyes. There are other practical reasons for covering circuits in epoxy: it keeps the parts firmly in place, and specially formulated epoxy can conduct heat well, although it will always have less surface area to dissipate heat than the bare components. One such application of this was in the 1971 UREI 1176LN version C. Bill Putnam covered the additional "Low Noise" portion he developed for the 1176 in version C with black epoxy.

Around 2000 Dumble preferred to be called by his second name Alexander. As of 2017, Dumble still built and serviced amplifiers for mainly prominent recording artists. However, if someone were to purchase a used amplifier, Dumble offered free servicing. In his older age, he only produced about five to ten amps per year. He loved to build his Ultraphonix and Rockphonix amps into Fender and Marshall chassis. The interiors are built from ground up and they are very popular with his customers. Known famous players owning either an Ultraphonix or Rockphonix Amp are Eric Clapton, Robben Ford, Peter Frampton, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, Lenny Kravitz, Chris Cobb, and Don Felder.

On May 13, 2021, guitarist Don Felder published an Instagram story with a photo of Dumble servicing his ‘65 Fender Deluxe Reverb. This was the first photo, or sighting, of Dumble in over 30 years. Dumble died in January 2022, at the age of 77. Robben Ford shared a video statement on his social media, and said that Dumble had been in poor health for a long time. After his passing, another recent picture of Dumble emerged of him playing the guitar, allegedly through the very first amplifier he ever built.

Attempted Collaborations & Proprietary Technology
Dumble had attempted multiple times to make his amplifiers more accessible. In 2013, there was an attempted collaboration between him and Fender Musical Instruments to release amplifiers with his modifications. Fender CEO Larry Thomas and CPO Richard McDonald were interacting with Dumble for several months in 2013 to create a joint Fender-Dumble product. Two Tweed Deluxe combo amplifiers were ultimately produced with his "Tweedle-Dee" modification. This collaborative idea, however, never came to fruition. In a letter of authenticity for one of the amps, McDonald stated, "[Dumble] lived 'off the grid' in the truest sense and so it was virtually impossible to create a sound, legitimate partnership."

Dumble notably lived a very "off the grid" lifestyle. Friends and peers said that he had no bank account, credit card, or even a social security number. Amplifiers made by him were paid for in cash. He held his build methods and proprietary technology very close. He bared no apprentices of his amp building processes. According to Robben Ford, Dumble intended the brand to die with him.

Overdrive Special
The Overdrive Special is a two channel amplifier, with a clean channel and a second "overdrive" channel. This overdrive channel "cascades" from the first channel into at least one additional gain stage in the overdrive channel. This means that the clean channel tone stack and gain stages cascade into the gain stage of the overdrive channel, overdriving the clean channel. In a sense, the overdrive channel sits "on top" of the clean channel. This is Dumble's most popular model, and subsequently is the most frequently seen. That said, the Overdrive Special (ODS) varies from decade to decade, and serial number to serial number. For example, though most ODS amplifiers use 6L6 tubes in the power section (commonly associated with Fender amps), some have EL34 tubes (commonly associated with Marshall amps).

On the other hand, even the many 6L6 versions of the ODS vary considerably. For example, some have a clean channel that stays clean "all the way up to 10" (referencing a gain potentiometer ranging from 1 to 10). Others have a clean channel that starts to "break up" around 3. Some overdrive channels can only reach a minimal amount of breakup, even when dialed up. However, most ODS overdrive channels have a large amount of tube distortion available. Many later versions of the ODS have "HRM" controls on the inside of the amplifier, which is a "hot rubber monkey" tone stack that sits "on top" of the overdrive channel or, in other words, comes after the overdrive channel tube gain stage.

There are commonalities across all ODS amplifiers. Firstly, the ODS amps are known for their harmonic richness in the overdrive channel breakup, and transparent "open-ness" in the clean channel. Guitarists describe the overdrive channel using terms like sustaining, blooming, and musical—and call the clean channel "fast", "huge", and "responsive". Robben Ford describes the tone of the ODS as having "a perfect sonic curve, the lows are deep and rich but not unclear, it doesn't mush out like some amps will. You have the frequencies there for your use. The mid range [is] punchy and clear and the high end, bright, clear but doesn't hurt your ears. It's loud but it sounds good."

In an interview with Premier Guitar, Ford claims that Dumble told him that the original inspiration for the Overdrive Special came while watching Ford play live in the 1970s at a bar in Santa Cruz. Ford was using a mid-60s blackface Fender Bassman, and running a tube screamer in front of it to overdrive the tubes to breakup. Supposedly, Dumble liked Ford's sound, and while contemplating it had the revelations that led to the original Overdrive Special. Since buying his ODS, Ford has almost exclusively used his original Dumble or an exact clone of it in live performances.

Overdrive Reverb
An Overdrive Special amplifier with an internal Reverb Circuit.

Steel String Singer
The Steel String Singer is an adjustable single channel "clean" amplifier with reverb.. Fewer than 12 of the original Steel String Singers have been accounted for.

As is typical with Dumble amplifier models, the Steel String Singer (SSS) varies from serial number to serial number. For example, The first SSS (made for Henry Kaiser) has a built-in vibrato circuit. Also, despite its reputation for a clean sound, the earlier SSS (and possibly #7) breaks up when the input gain is turned up or pushed by a strong input signal. Earlier versions also had more complicated phase inversion techniques that had been pioneered in vintage high fidelity amplifiers, and Fender style transformers. Starting with #4, Dumble simplified the phase inversion and gave the amp more negative feedback, which further cleaned up the signal. These updates significantly changed the sound and feel of the circuit, and became standard to the SSS model from #4 and on. The sound the Steel String Singer is most known for is a "clean feedback" effect, in which the amplifier feeds back, even though the signal remains clean. This is most apparent in later SSS models, though a balance of factors contribute to this behavior, and earlier SSS versions and other Dumble models reportedly imitate the effect under certain conditions.

Most common features of every Steel String Singer are control oriented. Every SSS has special high and low cut filters that adjust overall tone late in the circuit. Every SSS has reverb, and every SSS has special coupling techniques and a larger chassis style. Guitarists often characterize its sound as extremely clean and compressed, with dynamic response and a lush reverb circuit. Its EQ is generally considered relatively flat internally, but malleable through the front panel controls and overall responsiveness. There are reportedly "higher highs" and "lower lows" that are not often heard through other amplifiers, and a significant amount of harmonic response to the strength of the input signal.

Notable owners and users of the Steel String Singer include: Stevie Ray Vaughan, Eric Johnson, David Lindley, Jackson Browne, John Mayer, Kirk Hammett, and Henry Kaiser.

Manzamp
A single channel "no frills" combo amplifier, similar in appearance to the tweed Bassman. This was the most expensive amplifier on Dumble's amplifier price sheet in the 90s. Bonnie Raitt is a notable original owner of a Manzamp.

Dumbleland
One of the earliest Dumble amplifiers, this was also the model that Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble used for 80% of the guitar tracks on their debut album, Texas Flood, which was recorded at Jackson Browne's studio. Browne is a long time friend of Dumble, and owns some of his earliest amplifiers (including the first Overdrive Specials). Jackson Browne's collection of amplifiers introduced Vaughan to Dumble's amps, and Browne introduced Vaughan to Dumble so that he could buy his first Steel String Singer.

Winterland
The Winterland was a 300-watt bass amplifier Dumble made in the 1970s.

Tonestacks
Despite the variability among Dumble tonestack voicing and operation, most Dumble amplifiers have certain controls in common:

 * 1) Bass, Middle, and High frequency potentiometers
 * 2) Two voicings to choose from: Jazz, and Rock
 * 3) Boosts for each frequency – deep, and bright (some have mid boosts)
 * 4) An EQ bypass that bypasses the tonestack entirely (some models have an actual boost rather than a bypass)
 * 5) Overall power amp Presence control, or a Contour tone cut (most have one or the other, but some  have neither)

Dumbleator
Dumble also made a tube-buffered external effects loop called a Dumbleator. A few Dumble amps have a Dumbleator circuit built in, but most have "un-buffered" input jacks that tap directly out of the pre-amp and into the power amp. Dumble likely created this external loop because of the difficulty of fitting effects loop buffering into the amplifier chassis (and the limited use of effects loops for most players). The Dumbleator has separate Send and Receive controls for the effects, and a Bright switch on at least the return. Later models also have a Bright switch on the send. Dumble also made stereo versions. This effects loop buffering is essentially a cathode follower for the send, into a gain stage for return.

Notable players

 * Eric Clapton (has used various Dumble amps and Dumble modified/refurbished Fenders over the years)
 * Sonny Landreth (Overdrive Special)
 * Stephen Bruton (had a low-watt Dumble with 4x10" speakers)
 * Larry Carlton Overdrive Special
 * Robben Ford (bought an Overdrive Special in 1983 and had a model custom-built in 1993/4)
 * David Lindley (original owner of Overdrive Special #2, and Steel String Singer #3, and used them in stereo live)
 * John Mayer (Steel String Singer – also has a large collection of used Dumble amplifiers)
 * Lowell George had an early custom Dumble head he used for most of his career.
 * Carlos Santana (has at least one Overdrive Reverb and a Steel-String Singer purchased in the early 2000s, and uses Bludotone clones of his Dumbles live besides his Mesa Boogies)
 * Stevie Ray Vaughan (Steel String Singers – original owner of both #7 and #8, and had an association with #9)
 * Henry Kaiser (1978 Dumble Overdrive Special, original and current owner of Steel String Singer #1, original owner of SSS #4, other ODS's as well)
 * Joe Bonamassa (owns multiple Overdrive Specials, including one formally owned by Lowell George.)
 * Keith Urban (Overdrive Special)
 * Steve Kimock – 50-watt and 100-watt Dumble Overdrive Specials
 * Ben Harper – 3 × Overdrive Specials (50w head + 2×12" Cabinet, 100/50w 1×12" Combo, 100/40w Head + matching 1×12" Cabinet) In March 2016, Harper explained that Dumble had him plug his guitar directly into the oscilloscope so he could note the frequency patterns of Harper's instruments and voice Harper's Overdrive Special accordingly.
 * Eric Johnson (Steel String Singer, Overdrive Special)
 * Kirk Hammett (Steel String Singer)
 * Jason Isbell (Dumble modified Fender Pro and Dumble Overdrive Special)
 * Kenny Wayne Shepherd (Dumble modified Tweed Deluxe, nicknamed "Tweedle-Dee.")
 * Jackson Browne (Original owner of Overdrive Special #1, Dumbleland, and Steel String Singer #2)
 * Ry Cooder was the original owner of the Dumble Borderline Special (a 50 watts Overdrive Special with added tremolo effect). According to some sources Ry got so fed up of waiting for repairs or customizing, he put the amp head in Dumble’s driveway and drove over it with his car, destroying the amp.
 * Christopher Cross recently stated in an interview with Rick Beato that he recorded a lot of hits such as “Ride like the Wind” and many others using various Dumble Overdrive Specials.

title: Dumble Amplifiers


text:
Bingsu

Bingsu, sometimes written as bingsoo, is a milk-based Korean shaved ice dessert with sweet toppings that may include chopped fruit, condensed milk, fruit syrup, and red beans.

The most common variety is pat-bingsu (팥빙수), the red bean shaved ice. The main ingredient of ice was natural ice in the past, but later artificial ice was produced and high-quality sweeteners were developed, and now it has been improved into boiled red bean shaved ice or fruit shaved ice mixed with various fruits. At first, the ice-cutting machine was a simple tool in the shape of a plane, but now the electric power is widely used after a manual rotation by hand.

History
Bingsu has similar origins to Sorbet with fruit and milk-flavoured ice-based confectionary being documented as far back as 400 BCE in Ancient Persia and China. The earliest known documentation of ice-based desserts within Korea existed during the Joseon dynasty (1392–1897) which employed the use of crushed ice with various fruits, and were distributed from the ancient Korean ice storage called seokbinggo (석빙고).

After the Korean War, with the introduction of condensed milk, syrup, and chocolate from the United States, Korean bingsu began to become more diverse. Western influences after the Korean War have brought further variation to the ingredients used in the dish, with foods such as cereal, ice cream, and whipped cream, being added to patbingsu.

Varieties
Patbingsu (팥빙수, 팥氷水, sometimes anglicized as patbingsoo, literally "red beans shaved ice") is a popular Korean shaved ice dessert with sweet toppings that may include chopped fruit, condensed milk, fruit syrup, and red beans.

The food began as ice shavings with red beans (known as pat, 팥). Many varieties of patbingsu exist in contemporary culture.

There are a variety of bingsu types and flavors. Some popular flavors are: green tea, coffee, and yogurt.

In addition to the existing patbingsu, several Korean franchises have made shaved ice made from various ingredients such as Injeolmi shaved ice, melon shaved ice, coffee shaved ice, and green tea shaved ice. Now, bingsu can be found at almost every dessert shop in Korea.

title: Bingsu


text:
Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/FinlanD

I suggest this page be deleted instead of redirected, because the title is a typo. --Janke | Talk 21:08, 19 July 2005 (UTC)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dupper

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 talk 13:39, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Dupper
Neologism. Google gives >30 000 hits for "Dupper", but that's because it's a surname and a Norwegian plural noun. DS 21:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as above. Radiant_ >|< 12:21, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, neologism. Dcarrano 14:56, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dupper


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Divorced for the third time

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!)  08:24, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Divorced for the third time
This is another of Striver's article creations. There is interesting material here, but it should be placed in an article on Islamic law re marriage. I am not sure that there IS such an article. No one looking for this material could find it from this bizarre title. Zora 21:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Oh, wow, how amusing, my article got a Vfd... and guess by who? If im not mistaken, this is the 4:th Vfd she has been puting on my articles.

Zora, why dont you just link it, or put a sugestion to merge or rename it? No, we must have a Vfd, it just would'nt be the same, whould it?

 * Keep If she want to rename, merge or link, she can sugest it, but not delet.

My motivation for not having it in another article: It easier to link to it, since ther is 3 articles that result in this and ther is 3 article that can resolve it. It would not be fair to the other 5 articles if it would be put in one of the 6, if the reader wants to read only about this, s/he will have to searh for this in the article it will be put in. Hence, it is easier for the reader if it haves it own aricle, even, or just because, it does not contain so much information related to a single one of the 6.

--Striver 21:31, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * keep. I think this article can be expanded into a quite informative article.--Zereshk 03:34, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * KEEP. You cant just delete a article because its got a 'bizarre title'. Recommend another title.--Ya Ali 11:42, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

--Khalid! 11:49, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * keep. You said there is some interestig material, then why should it be deleted, instead it should be expanded
 * Delete, redirect to Divorce. Also note that you can only vote once. Radiant_ >|< 12:19, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree that the non-descriptive title is a problem. Merge to Islamic view of marriage.  Dcarrano 15:01, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

coment Islamic view of marriage is a overview page linking to separat articles, not a independen article of its own. The title needing to be changed does not warant a deletion. --Striver 15:45, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep — Nominators criteria is not a sufficient reason for a delete. Article is mildly notable. — RJH 15:17, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User talk:Béa~enwiki

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. I appreciate that you're trying to improve the penis article. However, there has been much discussion among editors to come to a consensus about what kind of pictures to include in the article. There was a lot of concern about finding pictures that are both informative and somewhat clinical in nature. Before you add the image back, it would be a good idea to visit Talk:Penis and see what others think about the potential addition. Joyous (talk) 21:14, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Echoing Joy's comments, I might add that we have several pictures in the penis article already. Unless a new picture present some special information to readers/viewers, then we shouldn't add it. -Willmcw 23:53, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Béa. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Béa~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 22:45, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 11:19, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Béa~enwiki


text:
Talk:Killeen, Texas

Population in 2000 census
This article contains conflicting numbers for the population of Killeen in the 2000 census. Maybe the two numbers correspond to different geographical areas; this should be clarified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.216.90.16 (talk) 14:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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title: Talk:Killeen, Texas


text:
Talk:FinlanD

From WP:RfD:

 * FinlanD → Finland I suggest the first page is deleted instead of redirected, because the title is a typo, and it comes up first in a search!  --Janke | Talk 21:24, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Please see #4. Noel (talk) 21:45, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This is not a CamelCase, it's a straight typo, probably not linked to from anywhere. (How can one check?) Would You write CanadA? --Janke | Talk 23:39, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I am not an incompetent cretin. Look at the history. The date of the oldest version (February 2001) is back when CamelCase was in use; support of the syntax for links only arrived in February 2001. Capitalization of the last character was the standard at one point; see CamelCase and Wikipedia for more. Noel (talk) 00:53, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * "I am not an incompetent cretin." Did I ever say that? But I'm a relative newcomer myself... ;-) A 2001 entry in the history says: Deleted in favor of Finland. Also looked at the links you mentioned, and still don't see why this typo can't be removed. It just looks so crazy when it comes up as the first item in a search for "Finland". Technical problem? Explain, please? --Janke | Talk 07:29, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, the policy of keeping CamelCase links is one I didn't help create, merely apply. You can see more about how (and why) that came to be at WT:RfD (sub-page and CamelCase redirects were dealt with in the same way, so all comments applying to one apply to the other). (And again, it's not a typo!) I don't have a strong feeling one way or the other about keeping them; were it not for the fact that they often contain interesting history from the very earliest days of Wikipedia, I personally would support getting rid of them. However, I have no interest in spending the energy to change the policy. (If I had it, I'd expend it on other more productive things (like User:Jnc/Disambiguation. :-). Noel (talk) 16:26, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep all CamelCase redirects. - SimonP 15:42, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete most CamelCase redirects. There is absolutely no reason to keep these after several years have elapsed since getting rid of the CamelCase misfeature of early wikis. It is not any official policy to keep these, just a convention and inertia followed by some old-timers and cranky extreme-inclusionists, who are as careful in guarding their favourite namespace anomalies than a Buddhist monk is avoiding killing a fly. If we can get consensus on this page to delete one, we can delete it despite any alleged policy saying otherwise. Note also that there is no meaningful history in FinlanD. jni 08:08, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * RFC the matter. It's been years since they were in use, so it's hard to tell if they're still linked from anything external. Since this case comes up rather frequently, it should be examined rather than people voting keep or delete on the general principle. Radiant_ >|< 08:24, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * RfC'ing this. My main concern is that it looks so amateurish when a CamelCase like FinlanD comes up in a search. --Janke | Talk 06:19, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete all CamelCase redirects except genuine alternative capitalisations. There has been long enough. Susvolans (pigs can fly) 17:01, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I have set up a poll at WT:RfD, and copied what I take to be the three votes here on the issue (SimonP, jni, Suslovans) there; others who wish to express an opinion on whether to keep or get rid of CamelCase redirects (as a class) should do so there. Noel (talk) 16:40, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete CamelCase, which is obsolete. — Stevey7788 (talk) 20:32, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * DeletE. Camelcase just looks like a stupid typo to people who aren't into wiki history. --K. Sperling (talk) 20:35, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Honestly can't see what the problem is.  If I type Findlain or Faindlin or FinDlaN I expect to see the Finaldn article.  That's a good use of redirects. --Tony Sidaway Talk  21:14, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep the redirect, fix the search feature so that redirects only appear below the articles they point to. dbenbenn | talk 16:46, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete pointless and weird-looking redirect, and fix the search feature. sjorford →•← 15:34, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This is not Bugzilla. If y'all want search fixed, someone should file there for it. Noel (talk) 01:21, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Since everyone is voting to keep stupid crap like George washington, I'm gonna vote to keep this one. Noel (talk) 01:30, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Count: Delete: 6, Keep: 4. No consensus to delete, keep. Noel (talk) 01:30, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

-

I suggest this page be deleted instead of redirected, because the title is a typo, and comes up first in a search. --Janke | Talk 21:08, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry, messed up a bit (vfd / rfd). Should be right now... --Janke | Talk 21:19, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:FinlanD


text:
Oberlahnstein

Oberlahnstein is a part of the city of Lahnstein in Rhineland-Palatinate in Germany. It lies on the right bank of the Rhine, at the confluence of the Lahn 4 m. above Koblenz, on the Right Rhine railway from Cologne to Frankfurt-on-Main.

Oberlahnstein still retains parts of its ancient walls and towers, and possesses a castle, the Schloss Martinsburg, formerly the residence of the electors of Mainz, and the chapel, Marien Kapelle, in which the German king Wenceslaus was deposed by the electors in 1400. Near the town is the castle of Lahneck, built about 1290, destroyed by the French in 1689, and restored in 1854. In the neighborhood are lead and silver mines.

title: Oberlahnstein


text:
Steiglitz, Victoria

Steiglitz is a small settlement in the Brisbane Ranges in Victoria. It is located 83 km west of the state capital, Melbourne, Australia. At the, the Steiglitz area had a population of 53.

The von Stieglitz family bought and settled the land on which Steiglitz now sits in 1835. They returned to Ireland in 1853, but retained ownership of the land, upon which gold was found the following year; it became the first auriferous quartz-mining site in Victoria. A settlement of gold-prospectors quickly developed, and took its (misspelled) name from the land's owners. The population reached 2000 by the 1863, including roughly 220 Chinese immigrants. The easily-won gold had been worked out by the late 1870s, and many people moved away. The last gold mine closed in 1941 and, as of 2015, the population of the town site was just eight. The Steiglitz historic park was opened in 1976 with the intention of preserving Steiglitz as an example of an abandoned gold-mining town, and several historic buildings were restored.

The Steiglitz Post Office's history closely follows that of the town: it opened on 15 March 1856 and closed in 1966, and is now a private residence.

The former Steiglitz Court House, built in 1874, just as the town began to experience a significant decline in population, is listed on the Victorian Heritage Register. It is now a volunteer-run museum.

A small wooden Catholic church, St Thomas' Catholic Church, was built in 1868–9. In 1951 the building was moved to Norlane where it served as a church hall, until it was returned to Steiglitz in 1982 as part of the restoration efforts; its churchyard continues to hold only a single grave. Similarly, St Paul's Anglican Church, which had been built in 1871, ceased functioning in 1962, but was restored in 1988 and 1994, having remained in Steiglitz for the whole period.

title: Steiglitz, Victoria


text:
Faux frais of production

Faux frais of production is a concept used by classical political economists and by Karl Marx in his critique of political economy. It refers to "incidental operating expenses" incurred in the productive investment of capital, which do not themselves add new value to output. In Marx's social accounting, the faux frais are a component of constant capital, or alternately are funded by a fraction of the new surplus value.

When owners of capital invest in production, they do not just invest in labor power, materials, buildings and equipment (or means of production). They must also meet a range of other operating expenses. These can include all kinds of things like bookkeeping, training, catering, cleaning & repairs, advertising, insurance, security services, bribes, taxes & levies etc. Marx has in mind mainly those circulation costs directly necessary and indispensable to keep production going, not "fringe benefits".

In modern medium-sized to large-sized business, fixed capital assets will "on average" be the largest single component of the annual tangible capital outlay. After that, materials and wages. But depending on the nature of the business, the faux frais might be a considerable proportion of the total capital outlay.

In general, Marx seems to have regarded net insurance and tax payments from gross production income as part of surplus value. But he never elaborated on this point in detail; presumably it depends on the nature of the tax and insurance claims themselves.

Professor Makoto Itoh comments: "Unlike pure circulation costs such as bookkeeping and advertising costs which are faux frais specific only to a commodity economy, some portions of the costs of storage and transport belong substantially to production processes that are continued in the circulation sphere, and therefore add to the substance of value and surplus-value just as production costs. The rest of the costs of storage and transport, together with pure circulation costs, proceed from the mere change in the form of value, and cannot enter into the substance of value of commodities. Such circulation costs are faux frais which must be maintained by a part of surplus value." (Makoto Itoh, The Basic Theory of Capitalism, Barnes & Noble 1988, p. 227).

Illustration
In 2002, the US IRS tax-assessed capital costs of all US corporations with a positive net income included the following items:

 * Depreciable assets (includes depletable and intangible assets) $4,715 billion
 * Less: Accumulated depreciation (includes accumulated depletion and amortization) $2,330 billion
 * Depreciation charged $411 billion
 * Depletable assets $148 billion
 * Less: Accumulated depletion $76 billion
 * Depletion charged $6 billion
 * Land $213 billion
 * Intangible assets (amortizable) $1,411 billion
 * Less: Accumulated amortization $269 billion
 * Amortization charged $68 billion
 * Other assets $2,396 billion
 * Intermediate goods $7,541 billion
 * Compensation of corporate officers $262 billion
 * Salaries and wages $1,362 billion
 * Employee benefit programs $167 billion
 * Pension, profit-sharing, stock bonus, and annuity plans $99 billion
 * Repairs $85 billion
 * Bad debts $98 billion
 * Rent paid on business property $260 billion
 * Taxes paid $283 billion
 * Interest paid $638 billion
 * Advertising $160 billion
 * Charitable contributions $10 billion
 * Net loss, non-capital assets $15 billion
 * Other deductible operating expenses $1,752 billion

In the NIPAs, the Bureau of Economic Analysis adds $26.2 billion worth of expensing on meals and entertainment, oilwell bonus payments written off, adjustments for insurance carriers and savings and loan associations, amortization of intangible assets, and tax-exempt interest income.

title: Faux frais of production


text:
Smart message

Smart message is a communications protocol designed by Intel and Nokia by which various software upgrades—including ringtones—can be made "over the air", through the wireless connection.

Smart Messaging is basically a special type of short message, with its own prefixes and codes, that makes it possible for the phone to recognize the message as, instead of a text message to the attention of the user, a "functional" message that should be treated as: a ringtone, a screen logo, in some cases even a business card or group graphics that can be used to identify who is calling.

title: Smart message


text:
We're Off to See the Wizard

"We're Off to See the Wizard" is one of the classic songs from the Academy Award-winning 1939 film The Wizard of Oz. Composer Harold Arlen described it, along with "The Merry Old Land of Oz" and "Ding-Dong! The Witch Is Dead", as one of the "lemon drop" songs of the film. The lyrics are by E.Y. "Yip" Harburg.

The melody's first appearance begins with the Munchkins reciting and Judy Garland echoing "Follow the Yellow Brick Road!", which turns into a group vocal by the Munchkins (while Garland skips and dances along the road) and then segues into "You're Off to See the Wizard".

The song occurs as a vocal three more times in the film soundtrack, along with several short instrumental references in the underscore:
 * 1) As a duet, sung by Judy Garland and Ray Bolger
 * 2) As a trio, sung by Judy Garland, Ray Bolger, and Jack Haley onscreen, but Buddy Ebsen's voice heard instead of Haley's
 * 3) As a quartet, sung by Judy Garland, Ray Bolger, again Buddy Ebsen's voice, and Bert Lahr

Although Jack Haley replaced Ebsen on-screen and in the Tin Man's solo recording of "If I Only Had a Heart", it was deemed unnecessary for the group vocal to be re-recorded, so the voice in the film as released remains Ebsen's. His voice can be detected by listening for the male voice enunciating the "R" in words like "Wizard", as Ebsen's regional accent emphasized the "R" much more strongly than Haley's did.

In The Wizard of Oz and Other Harold Arlen Songs, Shorty Rogers re-worked the song as (in the words of Talkin' Broadway) "a high-energy, wild Latin dance extravaganza".

The song was later heard in a few MGM animated cartoons, notably the Tom and Jerry shorts Professor Tom and The Truce Hurts.

Alvin and the Chipmunks covered this song for their 1969 album The Chipmunks Go to the Movies.

In December 1972, Eugene Cernan sang the song on the surface of the Moon while hopping in lunar gravity.

Mitch Miller and his male chorus later recorded a single of the song for the children's label Golden Records. Singer Anne Lloyd was featured as Dorothy on the song.

title: We're Off to See the Wizard