text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Richard Hanson (Web designer)

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete both. Sasquatch′↔T↔C 01:31, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Richard Hanson (Web designer) and EarlyBird
Non notable vanity pages. No real google results for various combinations of Richard Hanson, EarlyBird, Manchester, etc. Article doesn't establish notability, and this person has spammed links to eb.cx in various articles. Also relevant, see and Special:Contributions/Attitudepc CryptoDerk 23:48, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Vanity, vanity, and more vanity. I wish this garbage could be speedied. Gwk 23:52, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. You'll actually find dozens of pages related to this person. I think this is a simple case of user bias against the person. As you can see, other people have already shown an interest in the article, adding information to it.
 * Comment:Note, this unsigned vote is by the creator of the articles. IP is from England, surprise.  Within minutes of posting an article the other person on the EarlyBird design team edited the article, surprise.  Please stop spamming and self-promoting.  CryptoDerk 23:58, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment:Do you not think it's a bit arrogant and presumptious to assume that the other editor was from my team? A friend maybe, a member of my team certainly not.
 * Comment:OK look! I am not on his team whatsoever... Friend is what I am and nothing more... if you would notice. if you put my screen name into google, you'll find more links for my s/n than just his website... I'm also friends with a guy named brandon, who's website is exonyte.dyndns.org and my screen name appears for hits for his website thank you very much
 * Keep. because it provides biographical information about someone that some people on the internet may have an interest in. - attitudepc
 * Comment: I smell sockpuppetry... Gwk 00:14, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: That's kewl... - attitudepc
 * Comment: And I'd consider that comment defamatory. It's easy enough for people to check based on IP addresses if we are the same person and I'd caution you against making claims that impact somebody's reputation without having evidence to back it up.
 * Comment: Wait, were you making the claim that my IP is from the UK? If so, you're mistaken... I am very much in America. Houston, Texas to be more exact
 * Nobody claimed that. The two people involved with eb.cx are from Houston and England.  The two IPs that have edited this page and the Richard Hanson page are from Houston and England.  CryptoDerk 00:26, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * People shouldn't make assumptions about situations when they don't know what is going on. There is only one person involved in EarlyBird Web Design. EarlyBird. That is why the site is in England, the telephone number is in England, the fax number is in England and the address is in England. Attitudepc is only listed on the site because it was the only way to give her a blog on it.
 * This has nothing to do with the VFD. Vanity pages, self promotion, etc. are not allowed on Wikipedia. The fact that the IPs match with the locations listed for the people involved and the name "attitudepc" matches with what is on the eb.cx website are just meant to add evidence to my claim that this is vanity and self-promotion. That you two have continued to comment on here just backs up my proof.  CryptoDerk 00:44, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. To "Richard " or "Richard's friend" - Stop wasting your time. There is no way this is going to survive the VfD unless you include verfiable information that Richard Hanson has actually done something noteworthy. And it doesn't matter how many votes you or your friends cast here because WP is not a democracy anyway. Bobbis 00:41, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Richard is responsible for the world's first URL redirection service. The ruling on this site is that you shouldn't vote on subjects unless you have knowledge of the subject. If you had knowledge on this subject you would know of this person.
 * Well, TinyURL was around in Feb 2002 and eb.cx domain wasn't even registered until 6 December 2003 . Perhaps you need to provide evidence of where the EarlyBird URL redirection service was hosted prior to Feb 2002 to backup your claims? Furthermore, the Alexa rank of TinyURL.com is 1582, which compares to an Alexa rank of "no data" for eb.cx . You didn't really make the most of that first mover advantage, did you? P.S. nice work plugging your own site on Amazon reviews. Bobbis 01:15, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 00:43, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Eric Forste 00:47, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete vanity/unverified. --Etacar11 00:54, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, wouldn't find him notable even if his invention claims are true, since no proof has been given that this accomplishment made him especially well-known. And obviously his EarlyBird username is not independently notable either, that's just crazy talk.  Dcarrano 02:42, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete both. Richard may have a loyal friend, but his notability has not been established. carmeld1 00:22, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete. Wikipedia isn't a business card holder.  There are too many pages which are in effect mini biographies of persons who haven't established their noteworthiness. Just a hint to all aspiring brilliant persons:  If you are noteworthy, someone else will write the article about you without prompting. Posthocergopropterhoc 05:35, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


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Talk:Kindai University

Content
Most of the text on this page was cut-and-pasted straight from Kinki's site. I removed lots of the marketese, broken English, and fluffy stuff.Naniwako 17:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Shirt
Where can I buy a Kinki University t-shirt? —Brim 23:49, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * At the university, I imagine. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

English name
When the English name was changed formally? The university said, they will think about changing English name. But, As long as I know, the university has not changed the English name yet. Please add the sources of the information. I can not find the news, and the university's site has not changed the English name. If there is no reply within one week, I will revert this edition.--HATA A. K. (talk) 11:37, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

 * This doesn't sound right to me. I work at Kinki University and I have never heard anyone talking about this. I never got a memo in my mailbox saying the name has changed. There is not a press release on their website saying that the name has been changed. The sign on the main gate of the campus still says "Kinki University" and both the English and Japanese websites still use the words "Kinki University." Finally, the Japanese wikipedia site lists the English name as Kinki University. MARHALT comment added by Marhalt (talk • contribs) 03:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Removed the description related to the unsourced name change. There is no evidence such as public announcements showing that happened. -- Mantokun (talk) 04:35, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

 * See this. I'm wary of including it right now because of WP:CRYSTAL (they may change their mind) but I guess that it would be ok to do so since that news story was actually linked from the English-language homepage of the university's official website on 22 May 2014. - Sitush (talk) 18:01, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Item no.4 in this article makes it perfectly clear that the change to "Kindai University" isn't happening until May 2016. I edited the page to reflect this. tripbeetle (talk) 11:56, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Kindai University


text:
User talk:Xenoploid

Welcome from Redwolf24
Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We as a community are glad to have you and thank you for creating a user account! Here are a few good links for newcomers:
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome.

Redwolf24

P.S. I like messages :-P

Image Tagging Image:Tricky.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Tricky.jpg. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use GFDL to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the image qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. CLW 22:43, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Tricky.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Tricky.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

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Golan Levin copyright violation
Hello! I noticed your work on the Golan Levin article. While I agree that Mr. Levin deserves an article, you copied the text almost wholly from this page. We cannot copy such material to use on Wikipedia (see WP:COPY for more). You can, however, rephrase and combine information from several sources. Please consider doing this -- currently, I have reduced the article to a stub. Feel free to contact me on my talk page for more information. -- dcclark (talk) 21:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Xenoploid


text:
Frederick Dielman

Frederick Dielman (25 December 1847 – 15 August 1935) was a German-American portrait and figure painter.

Biography
Dielman was born in Hanover, Germany, and was taken to the United States in early childhood. He graduated from Elf Sternberg College in New Windsor, Maryland, in 1864, and from 1866 to 1872 served as a topographer and draughtsman for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in Fortress Monroe and Baltimore, and in the survey of canal routes over the Alleghanies in Virginia. He then studied under Wilhelm von Diez at the Royal Academy at Munich where he received a medal in the life class.

He opened a studio in New York City, where he worked at first as an illustrator of books and magazines, and became a distinguished draughtsman and painter of genre pictures. He was one of the original members of the Society of American Artists, was made a National Academician in 1883, and was also a member of the American Water Color Society, the New York Etching Club, and the Salmagundi Club. He was president of the Arts Federation of New York.

In 1899, Dielman was elected president of the National Academy of Design. In 1903, he became professor of drawing at the College of the City of New York and about the same time was made director of the art schools at Cooper Union.

He made major contributions to deluxe editions of works by Longfellow, Hawthorne, George Eliot, and other writers, and to the various publications of the Tile Club, of which he was a member. His mural decorations and mosaic panels for the Library of Congress in Washington are notable. Among his pictures shown at National Academy exhibitions were The Patrician Lad (1877), Young Gamblers (1885), and a Head (1886). One of the best known of his illustrations is A Girl I Know.

He died at his home in Ridgefield, Connecticut on 15 August 1935.

title: Frederick Dielman


text:
Talk:Dissolution

The meaning of dissolution in business should have an article of its own. PeepP 23:51, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

New link? "Dissolution of Nation, Empire" linked to secession
I'm doing bunch of research on secession right now and going to add lots of sourced info on types and theories. One type is DISSOLUTION of a nation or empire, which happens usually when parts start seceding. If someone wants to create a separate page some time, fine. I might do it myself. Meanwhile, any problems with this proposal, do tell soon. Carol Moore 22:51, 16 August 2007 (UTC)User:Carolmooredc User talk:Carolmooredc

 * Getting closer to finishing above, so do tell if you think it's a bad idea.
 * However, I think DISSOLUTION OF POLITICAL ENTITY with description as nation state, federation, union or empire with relevant examples would be more general name, however, similar to other wiki articles on separatism, partition, etc.
 * Carol Moore 23:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)User:Carolmooredc User talk:Carolmooredc

 * Sounds like a idea to me.  I've been working on removing links to the "dissolution" dab page, and such an article would have been very useful.  It might also provide a way to get the template on former countries to stop linking to the dissolution dab page. How about "Dissolution (political entity)" as an article name, to be consistent with other entries on dab pages? Auntof6 05:04, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Great. Will put on my list of things to do... Not sure what a dab page is and couldn't find it easily in wiki search. Same as a stub page?

 * Anyway, a good place to start putting a list together is from the following wikipedia pages:
 * List of empires
 * List of largest empires
 * List of extinct countries, empires, etc.
 * If they aren't on there, let's not forget off the top of my head: Greek (or Alexandrian?) Empire; Roman Empire; Mongol Empire; Austro-Hungarian Empire; Ottoman Empire; British Empire; Soviet Union, etc etc.
 * Carol MooreUser:Carolmooredc User talk:Carolmooredc —Preceding comment was added at 14:14, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dissolution


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Cranberry glass

Cranberry glass or 'Gold Ruby' glass is a red glass made by adding gold salts or colloidal gold to molten glass. Tin, in the form of stannous chloride, is sometimes added in tiny amounts as a reducing agent. The glass is used primarily in expensive decorations.

Production
Cranberry glass is made in craft production rather than in large quantities, due to the high cost of the gold. The gold chloride is made by dissolving gold in a solution of nitric acid and hydrochloric acid (aqua regia). The glass is typically hand blown or molded. The finished, hardened glass is a type of colloid, a solid phase (gold) dispersed inside another solid phase (glass).

History
The origins of cranberry glass making are unknown, but many historians believe a form of this glass was first made in the late Roman Empire. This is evidenced by the British Museum's collection Lycurgus Cup, a 4th-century Roman glass cage cup made of a dichroic glass, which shows a different colour depending on whether light is passing through it or reflecting from it; red (gold salts) when lit from behind and green (silver salts) when lit from in front. Kitab al-Asrar, an Arabic work attributed to Abu Bakr al-Razi contains one of the earliest modern descriptions of the preparation of gold ruby glass.

The craft was then lost and rediscovered in the 17th century Bohemian period by either Johann Kunckel in Potsdam or by the Florentine glassmaker Antonio Neri. Neither of them knew the mechanism which yielded the colour, however. Chemist and winner of the 1925 Nobel Prize in Chemistry Richard Adolf Zsigmondy was able to understand and explain that small colloids of gold were responsible for the red colour.

The most famous period of cranberry glass production was in 19th century Britain during the Victorian Era.

Legend holds that cranberry glass was first discovered when a noble tossed a gold coin into a mixture of molten glass. This legend is almost certainly not true, as the gold must be dissolved in aqua regia before being added to the molten glass.

Cranberry glass creations were most popular as a table display, often holding candy or flowers.

Cranberry glass was also frequently used for wine glasses, decanters, and finger bowls. Cranberry glass was also well known for its use in "Mary Gregory" glass. This glass had a white enamel fired onto the glass in a design, usually with a romantic theme.

title: Cranberry glass


text:
User talk:Truthe

Welcome from Redwolf24
Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We as a community are glad to have you and thank you for creating a user account! Here are a few good links for newcomers:
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Yes some of the links appear a bit boring at first, but they are VERY helpful if you ever take the time to read them.

Remember to place any articles you create into a category so we don't get orphans.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome.

Redwolf24

P.S. I like messages :-P

AfD nomination of RTorrent
An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is RTorrent. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

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title: User talk:Truthe


text:
Talk:M27 motorway

Untitled
I orignally npoved some of the text to The motoway was supposed to continue to Havent, but the hard shoulder is a few inches too narrow for motorway regulations.

However after some research I have the feeling the source of this information was the CBRD page for the A3(M). If I was wrong please put this back in :) 82.70.146.238 00:04, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

 * 1) AFAIK the official reason the section of A27 from Junc 12 to the A3M has never been made motorway is that there is no viable and safe alternative route for non-motorway traffic.Nuttah68 10:32, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

M274
This: The M274 was meant to be the A32 around Fareham and off to Gosport Makes sense regarding the road numberings, however do you have a source for this? It has not been on any old plans that I have seen.

Junction 13
Regarding the map, I have to say that J13 does not exist. |Multimap and |Get-a-map from Ordanance Survey both show a J12 and then an limited junction as part of the same complex. On the ground it is only signed as J!2. Additionally the |Highways Agency also only show J12 on their map. Unfortuately, then, the map is incorrect and needs to be amended. Additionally the M27 terminates at its junction with the M275 not some distance on as shown on the map. I have not removed the map, becuase it is 90% of the way there, but it does need amending. Regan123 02:58, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Shortly after J12 the M27 regrades and becomes the A27. Changes in classification have never been given junction numbers. The interchange Captain Scarlett is convinced is J13 is the limited access to/from the A27-Brighton direction only, this junction gives no access to or from the M27 at all. Nuttah68 08:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Junction 13 is a partial exit with the A27, where the M27 does become the A27. J13 is the limited access to/from the A27-Brighton direction only, this junction gives access to or from the M27 to or from the East. Western exit and entrance are on the A27, not the M27. You may also spell my nickname properly as well.

Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 09:17, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

 * That is the only map I have ever seen with it as J13. The AA website shows it as junction 12, the Highways Agency do as do the Ordnance Survey, who are the UK's definitive source for maps.  It is Junction 12 and not 13. Regan123 10:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Further link showing it as junction 12: Streetmap Regan123 12:20, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Plus, I notice the map is labelled Motorway 27. I can't think of many people who refer to it as that. S.I.s would refer to the M27 Motorway. In the same way that S.I.s usually refer to the A1(M) as the A1 Motorway, the Mxx or Axx refers to the route number, and is not actually short for anything. Plus, what are the copyright implications for the map? Is it derived from Ordnance Survey data (and would therefore be crown copyright)? Richard B 13:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

 * See also User_talk:Captain_scarlet where part of this discussion has taken place. I would like to get a consensus on the existance of Junction 13.  Regan123 14:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC).

Right, have done some more research and have brought together some information from the other discussion:
 * Ordnance Survey (OS) Map Showing Junction 12
 * Highways Agency Project Page showing it as an unnumbered junction
 * Highways Agency Project Page showing it all as one complex
 * The Motorway Archive Shows Junction 12
 * SABRE Photo Gallery Image showing junction 12
 * [[Image:Motorway 27 - junction 13.png|50px|thumb|left]] A map from Collins who base their maps on Ordnance suurvey maps, showing junction 13.

 * Multimap at a scale using a Collins map, showing no junction number. This would seem to contradict the picture above which references junction 12 on the sign.
 * Multimap at a different scale which uses OS maps showing junction 12 at one end of the M275 and an unnumbered junction at the other.
 * showing junction 12.

I hope that someone local can help out with on the ground knowledge should one be passing by. I have also posed the question on SABRE here. Can anyone else help with references one way or the other? Please also see User_talk:Captain_scarlet for another part of the discussion. Regan123 02:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I was born and have lived in Portsmouth 40+ years and drive the route every morning. Unfortunately, User_talk:Captain_scarlet appears unwilling to accept that they are wrong on this case. This is an official map from the Highways Agency, clearly showing that J12 is the highest numbered junction on the M27 and beyond that the road is the A27.
 * http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/5662.aspx
 * Interestingly, the Collins map implies there are no junction numbers on the A3(M). Nuttah68 07:50, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The SABRE thread has also confirmed it as not being numbered. Regan123 11:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

 * As there is no evidence of junction 13 existing, or ever have being in existence, apart from the Collins map reproduced here I feel User_talk:Captain_scarlet may have fallen foul of a larger scale map version of a Trap street. As such the plan is in distinct danger of being a copyright violation and I will remove it shortly. Nuttah68 17:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Whilst I don't have a problem with it being removed, perhaps you should place it here along with the dispute tag, in case others who may not have been online in the past couple of days would like to contribute. Also this has been posted on the SABRE thread:

 * A handful of Collin's Atlases in the mid 1990's showed this junction as jnc 13. It also showed the A27 as motorway upto the A3(M) with jncs 14 (A2030) and 15 (A3(M)).

 * Regan123 18:21, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Map under dispute as incorrect (see above) is linked here:

 * Regan123 23:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Just to say as another local who travels that exact spot (between J12 and the A27) both ways everyday (almost), that J13 does not exist and the M27 ends just before the Cosham junction to the A27 (two miles or so before the A3(M) starts eastbound). The Cosham junction (eastbound) to the A27 also makes no mention of the M27 only the A27. As such J13 as no place on a map. Ben 12:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Future plans
Are the roadworks between Junctions 3 and 4 finished? Due for completion in March 2009 would imply that the speed limits ought to have been lifted by now.Patrick lovell (talk) 17:19, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:M27 motorway


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hallitube

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. – ABCD✉ 23:30, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Hallitube
Advertisement for non-notable device. See above for similar products that were speedied and recreated by User:Hallitubes. Bobbis 23:55, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Google hits: 6. Gwk 00:01, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete — proposed legislation; article of this nature needs more references to stand on its own merits. — RJH 23:02, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, only Google hits for "Hallitubes", other than WP mirrors, are someone's home page - hoax/unverifiable as a legislative proposal.  Dcarrano 23:35, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Advertising, shameless. Manning 05:22, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Retain. I find the proposal interesting in itself, although the stub article is uninformative.  Numerous other transportation proposals are in Wikipedia, and are not proposed for deletion.  I'll fill some details in.  I'm not associated with the project in any way.  User:Ray Van De Walker 17:28, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

Hoax ? This is a 60+ page website, 100+ images, many 3d rendered, behind it is a cadre of transportation engineers and urban planning experts. Could one of you visit www.generaltransit.com ? We have not done news release yet...
 * Size of the website is not relevant. I have visited your website and saw nothing to change my vote. Manning 05:22, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

How can Manning Bartlett be a serious Wikipedia editor if he calls an Anti-congestion initiative "shameless advertising" with the top of the site saying "Nothing for sale"?
 * Because Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and is not for original research. Even though I listed this for deletion, I do think it is a very interesting proposal. However, it is only a proposal. Unless it is accepted or at least gains support in a wider sense, then it is not notable enough to be included in an encyclopedia. Perhaps if there was a prototype to show or if a technical journal had described it or if a newspapaer had done an article about it, then it could stay. As it stands the only evidence is a single website describing the concept. As an encyclopedia, WP should be very conservative about including new things - it should record history, not be a party in creating it. I am sorry, because I can tell this is something you are passionate about, but you should be directing that energy into gaining support for your ideas from the people that matter (venture capitalists, politicians and the media). Bobbis 12:29, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Thousands of edits over nearly 4 years pretty much gives me some credit as a serious editor. I am not suggesting your ideas aren't interesting or potentially successful. I also have no doubt your ideas might become encyclopediacal one day, and they will rightfully take their place in the pedia. But in the early days it was decided that the 'pedia is not the place to present every new idea on earth. Most new ideas fail and we cannot record them all. Hence the "Crystal Ball" rule that Bobbis describes above. It's nothing personal. Get your project implemented and you'll get no end of coverage here. Manning 10:58, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

The difference (and significance) of an electronic (as opposed to physical) encyclopedia is that it can rapidly respond to events, and has lower institutional barriers to entry. The Hallitube Initiative has over 20 separate proposals, here is what academics say about it from our news release:"An innovative strategy that merits consideration for alleviating congestion and encouraging alternate transportation". Dr. Stephen Mattingly, Univ. of Tex. "A great attempt to solve the current urban transportation problem", Dr. Morton Gulak, Va. Com. Univ. "Maybe we cannot beam you up, but we can tube you over" Dr. Kenneth Waldron, Prof. of Mech. Eng., James Clark Faculty Scholar, Stanford Univ. "Makes a lot more sense than the public vehicle aspect of other PRT systems" Dr. K. Kockelman, Univ. of Tex. "An interesting project worthy of consideration" Dr. Kevin Krizek, Director, ACT Transp. Research Group, Univ. of Minn. "Sounds really promising" Prof. R. Gakenheimer, MIT, Chair, Int. Sci. Cmte. of Coop. for Dev. and Improvement of Urban Transp. "Hallitubes should provide everyone who is frustated and disgusted by the traffic situation in our cities with the hope that very soon,we well be able to cost-effectively tame the monster that the car has become." Dr. J. Kolo, Florida Atlantic University. "The (referendum) microflyovers make sense..." Dr. R. Layton, Prof. of Transp. Engineering, Ore. State Univ. "The proposed Hallitube pylons are an innovative potential use of prestressed concrete.." Dr. A. Schokker, Henderson Prof. of Civil Eng., Univ. of Pennsylvania. "This is an innovative private market solution that deserves further study and consideration." Friends of S. Calif. Highways,Fixtraffic.org.

Traffic is the biggest urban problem of the day. This is not a remote subject, unlike the surface composition of Mars, it carries intense public interest. The costs of this problem are extreme, and we have waited for 20 years for academia and government to act. You say you cannot present every idea. For most areas that makes sense, but in this particular area, you should really present every idea, in part because it does not take experts to examine the viablity. If you become like bureaucrats defending rules, you fail to fullfill a novel role wikipedia can represent. If major academics say this deserves attention, and you suppress, you identify yourself clearly as part of an establishment that apparently has decided someone's interest are served by traffic congestion.

How do you go about deciding that a discussion of the French Trottoir Roulant should have a concept design of an American version removed, or that "car stopping" technologies should not be included in an enceclopedia, when 1000 California mothers could not pick their children up in time because of another police chase ? By definition, the discussion of any concept is an advertising for itself. If you write a thread on a BB, prior to the existence of the web, the idea of an "online encyclopedia called wikipedia" is this a new concept, or should it be suppressed because it is "advertising" something ? You need to look for informational density and novelty to determine if something is an advert. The California Stem Cell proposition was 2 years in the making before it was passed. Should this be suppressed from discussion because it has not been voted on yet ? The inclusion criteria must be 1)relevancy and 2)informational density. The fact that it is being proposed cannot count against inclusion. Would you have allowed Michelson-Morrison to allege that there is no Aether when everybody in Physics thought there was one ? Open up a little, and think about the collective costs of traffic congestion for humanity as a whole. You are saying " let the west fail, we don't like it anyway". Incidentally, the current entry for Hallitubes is not written by our staff. (by 66.27.105.251 16:02, 26 July 2005 )

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User talk:Attitudepc

Please stop. Wikipedia is not a place for spamming or self promotion. CryptoDerk 23:56, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Attitudepc


text:
Ginery Twichell

Ginery Twichell (August 26, 1811 – July 23, 1883) was president of the Boston and Worcester Railroad in the 1860s, the Republican Representative for Massachusetts for three consecutive terms and the sixth president of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway.

He was born in Athol, Massachusetts. Some references list his actual birth date as August 22, 1811 (Waters, p. 43), while others list it as August 26, 1811 (Congress Bioguide; and Massachusetts Vital Records). In 1827 Twichell left school to seek employment in a local mill. Subsequent jobs saw him working with livestock and later in retail. His strengths in transportation began to show in 1830 when he took control of a stage line between Barre and Worcester.

As a manager and business owner, Twichell gained a reputation for kindness and generosity, even toward his business competition. He saw his stage line grow to include many more lines throughout New England. When the Boston and Worcester Railroad (B&W) opened on July 1, 1835, Twichell's stage lines were both competition and complement to the railroad's service. This quasi-partnership lasted until June 1, 1848, when Twichell became the assistant superintendent of the railroad. Twichell rose through the B&W's ranks, becoming president in 1857.

In 1867 Twichell was elected to Congress where he served as a Republican Representative for Massachusetts. He was twice reelected, in 1869 and again in 1871, to stretch his tenure to three consecutive terms.

During his third term as a Representative, Twichell became president of the growing Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway in 1870. During his term with the Santa Fe, the railroad built the rest of the mainline across Kansas from Topeka, connecting to Dodge City, Kansas, on September 5, 1872, and then the Colorado state line by the end of 1873. Twichell served the Santa Fe Railroad for three years, leaving in 1873 to return to Massachusetts where he led the Boston, Barre and Gardner Railroad and the Hoosac Tunnel and Wilmington Railroad. Twichell died on July 23, 1883, in Brookline, Massachusetts, of typhoid fever.

title: Ginery Twichell


text:
Tolga, Queensland

Tolga is a rural town and locality in the Tablelands Region, Queensland, Australia. In the, the locality of Tolga had a population of 3,177 people.

It is the centre of the region's peanut industry and is home to the Big Peanut (-17.2032°N, 145.476°W).

Geography
Tolga is located on the Atherton Tableland. The Kennedy Highway traverses the locality from the north-west to the south of the locality, passing through the town which is in the southern part of the locality. To the north-west of the town is a large residential development which is marketed under the names of Tandara, Rangeview and Panorama Views.

Mapee is a neighbourhood within the centre of the locality (-17.1901°N, 145.4677°W). Yadjin is a neighbourhood in the south-east of the locality (-17.2166°N, 145.5°W).

The Barron River forms the north-east boundary of the locality. The south-western boundary of the locality is the Great Dividing Range which creates the drainage divide that separates the drainage basin of the Barron River (which flows to the Coral Sea) from that of the Mitchell River (which flows to the Gulf of Carpentaria).

The northern and eastern parts of Tolga are relatively flat land used for growing crops. The western parts are more mountainous (creating the drainage divide) and are mostly undeveloped. Bones Knob is a peak to the west of the town (-17.2166°N, 145.4441°W) at 962 m above sea level.

The Tolga Scrub on the southern side of town (within the locality of Atherton, -17.2367°N, 145.4794°W) is one of the last remaining areas of Mabi rainforest on the Atherton Tableland. It is the most drought resistant type of rainforest in Australia. The Tolga Scrub is 2 km long and 100 metres wide.

History
Bones Knob is thought to be named after a young Aboriginal man known as "Bones", mention in a letter written in February 1879 by Alexander Douglas of the Native Mounted Police to Inspector Stuart of the Queensland Police.

The town was originally called Martin Town after sawmillers George and Robert Martin, and grew out of a Cobb and Co staging post at Rocky Creek.

Martintown Provisional School opened on 10 October 1895. It was renamed Tolga Provisional School in 1905. On 1 January 1909 it became Tolga State School.

The town's name was changed to Tolga in 1903 when Tablelands railway line was extended from Mareeba to Atherton and the local railway station was to be called Tolga, a name thought to be derived from the Aboriginal word for either place where the scrub begins or red volcanic soil. The line opened on 10 August 1903. A branch line from Tolga to Yungaburra was built, opening on 15 March 1910, which was subsequently extended in stages to Millaa Millaa by 19 December 1921. The line between Atherton and Mareeba became non-operational on 1 July 2011 and was officially closed on 15 March 2013. Tolga railway station was between the Kennedy Highway and Lawson Street (-17.2208°N, 145.4797°W).

Mapee takes its name from its railway station, assigned by the Queensland Railways Department on 11 January 1915. It is an Aboriginal word meaning tree kangaroo.

Yadjin takes its name from its railway station name, assigned by the Queensland Railways Department on 26 June 1922, an Aboriginal word meaning grass pocket.

During World War II in 1943 the Australian Army established their largest storage and repair centre to the west of the town centred on Griffin Road and Tate Road to support the War in the Pacific. It was known as the 13 Australian Advanced Ordnance Depot and was operated by the Royal Australian Army Ordnance Corps under the command of lieutenant colonel LW Gale with a staff of about 1000 including 200 from the Australian Women's Army Service. The complex had about 150 buildings, including 18 large igloo storage shed. The complex stored, repaired and maintained Army vehicles and vehicle parts, weapons and ammunition, and clothing.

Most buildings on the site were removed in 1946 after the war had ended with one building being relocated to the Atherton Hospital for the use of the Queensland Country Women's Association. On Friday 29 November 1946, three Army personnel were working to remove cordite from the shells in the ammunition dump when the cordite ignited in a blinding flash. The three men were severely burned in the explosion but managed to crawl over a mile to their headquarters. Although they were rushed to the Atheron hospital, the three men died and were buried at the Atherton War Cemetery.

Demographics
In the, the town of Tolga had a population of 843 people.

In the, the locality of Tolga had a population of 2,426 people.

In the, the locality of Tolga had a population of 2,718 people.

In the, the locality of Tolga had a population of 3,177 people.

Education
Tolga State School opened on 10 October 1895 and is co-educational, catering for Prep - Year 6 with an enrolment of 366 students. The school celebrated its centenary in 1995.

Tolga Markets
Tolga Markets are held at the Tolga Racecourse from 7am to 12pm on the first Sunday of each month. Local produce, hand crafted items, clothing, tools and food are commonly found for sale. It is considered the second most popular market held on the Atherton Tableland, only slightly smaller than the Yungaburra Markets.

Community groups
The Tolga branch of the Queensland Country Women's Association meets at the QCWA Hall at 60 Main Street.

Heritage listings
Tolga has a number of heritage-listed sites, including:
 * Bowcock Road: Bones Knob Radar Station
 * Kennedy Highway: Rocky Creek World War Two Hospital Complex

title: Tolga, Queensland


text:
Talk:Alula (magazine)

ISSN
The ISSN is not on the journal website.

The following information appears at http://www.isinet.com/cgi-bin/jrnlst/jlresults.cgi?PC=MASTER&mode=print&Page=2 :

591. ALULA-DEGERBY

Quarterly ISSN: 1238-1594 ALULA, KNAPANTIE 49, DEGERBY, FINLAND, FIN-10160

Does this refer to the same journal?

Courtland 23:57, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

The ISSN was added ... thank you ... but what was the source of this information?

Courtland 01:18, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

 * Contents page of a recent issue -SP-KP 02:14, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the information. Courtland 12:18, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * I found an online source for the ISSN ... http://www.lob.lv/lv/biblioteka/zurnali.php#Alula. Courtland 12:45, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * I've tried a couple of times to send a message to the Alula editorial staff asking that the ISSN be included on their website but their feedback for tosses an error. Perhaps someone has an alternate contact method and could present this request to them through that. Courtland 12:49, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Removal of Prod notice
I've removed the prod notice because this journal although defunct is notable enough for a Wp article in my opinion. Please feel free to nominate at AfD though if you feel strongly that it should be deleted. SP-KP (talk) 09:55, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Alula (magazine)


text:
Vallathol Narayana Menon

Vallathol Narayana Menon (16 October 1878 – 13 March 1958) was a Malayalam poet and one of the triumvirate of modern Malayalam poetry, along with Asan and Ulloor. The honorific Mahakavi was applied to him in 1913 after the publication of his Mahakavya Chitrayogam. He was a nationalist poet and wrote a series of poems on various aspects of the Indian freedom movement. He founded the Kerala Kalamandalam and is credited with revitalising the traditional Keralite dance form known as Kathakali.

Early life
Vallathol was born in Chennara, Mangalam, Tirur, in Malappuram District, Kerala, as the son of Kadungotte Mallisseri Damodaran Elayathu and Kuttipparu Amma. He did not receive any formal education but was trained in Sanskrit language, first under the Sanskrit scholar Variyam Parambil Kunjan Nair and then under his own uncle Ramunni Menon, who introduced him into the world of Sanskrit poetry. Ramunni Menon also taught him Ashtanga Hridayam, a medical treatise, and young Narayana Menon soon began helping his uncle in medical practice and teaching. He also trained for a year under Parakkulam Subrahmanya Sastri and Kaikulangara Rama Variar in Philosophy and Logic. He married Vanneri Chittazhiveettil Madhavi Amma in November 1901 and shifted to Thrissur, the cultural capital of Kerala. He worked as manager in the Kalpadrumam Press in Thrissur from 1905 to 1910. During this period, his hearing began to deteriorate. From 1915, he started working in Keralodayam newspaper and later joined Amrit Ritesh, a journal published from Thrissur.

Poetry
He started writing poems from the age of twelve. Kiratha Satakam and Vyasavataram were his earliest published works. He won Bhashaposhini magazine's poetry award in 1894. His poems began appearing in Bhashaposhini, Kerala Sanchari and Vijnana Chintamani magazines. His first major literary ventures was a rendition of Valmiki's Ramayana into Malayalam, the work of which started in 1905 and took two years to complete. Unlike some of his contemporaries, Vallathol did not have any acquaintance with English language. He earned the title Mahakavi after the publication of the Mahakavya Chitrayogam in 1913. Chitrayogam conformed to all the principles of a traditional Mahakavya and was divided into 18 Sargas. The story of Chandrasena and Taravali, taken from Kathasaritsagara, was the theme of this poetry work. Vallathol portrayed the protest of Parvati against Siva in the work Gangapati (1913) and of Usha defying her father for the sake of her love in Bandhanasthanaya Anirudhan (1914). In 1917, the first of his eleven-volume work Sahitya Manjari (A Bouquet of Literature) was published. These volumes, published from 1917 to 1970, contain his collected short romantic poems dealing with a variety of themes. Many of these poems earlier appeared in P. V. Krishna Variar's Kavanakaumudi magazine. His khanda kavya on Mary Magdalene titled Magdalana Mariam paved the way for a new tradition in of Christian symbolism in Malayalam. The poet's own struggle with deafness from his early twenties features in the work Badhiravilapam. Other celebrated short poems of Vallathol include Sishyanum Makanum, Virasinkala, Achanum Makalum, Divaswapnam, and Ente Gurukulam. In addition to subjects from nature and the lives of ordinary people, Vallathol's opposition to the indignities of the caste system and the injustices suffered by the poor are common themes for many of his poems. He is also regarded as the greatest nationalist poet of the language. He was one of the triumvirate poets of modern Malayalam, along with Kumaran Asan and Ulloor S. Parameswara Iyer. Literary critic K. M. George has noted that, together with Kumaran Asan, Vallathol was "responsible for bringing about a revolutionary change in Malayalam poetry in the [nineteen]-twenties. Asan concentrated on social themes and Vallathol championed the national movement; yet both made very significant contributions to the khandkavya, ie: the short poem of the lyrical type."

The title "Kavisarvabhowman" was conferred upon him by the Maharaja of Cochin. He was awarded Padma Bhushan title, India's third highest civilian award, in 1954.

Kathakali
Vallathol is credited with revitalising Kathakali. He played a prominent role in setting up the Kerala Kalamandalam at Cheruthuruthy, near the banks of Bharathapuzha River. The revival of the art of Kathakali in modern Kerala was mainly due to the efforts of Vallathol and the Kerala Kalamandalam. He stimulated the world's interest in this art during his tours abroad between 1950 and 1953.

Involvement in Nationalist movement
Vallathol was a nationalist poet writing in the Malayalam language. He actively participated in the Nationalist movement. He attended the all India Conferences of the Indian Congress in 1922 and 1927 and rejected a royal honour bestowed upon him by the Prince of Wales during his India visit in 1922. Vallathol remained a great admirer of Mahatma Gandhi and wrote the poem "Ente Gurunathan" ("My Great Teacher") in his praise. At the same time, he felt attracted by the Communist ideology and wrote poems praising the achievements of the Soviet Union. He wrote several patriotic poems hailing India's nationalist movement.

title: Vallathol Narayana Menon


text: User talk:70.16.6.207

title: User talk:70.16.6.207


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Highway electrification

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 talk 02:57, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Highway electrification
Advert (see numerous other entries above Bobbis 23:59, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete — proposed legislation; article of this nature needs more references to stand on its own merits. — RJH 23:01, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, only Google hits for "Hallitubes", other than WP mirrors, are someone's home page - hoax/unverifiable as a legislative proposal.  Dcarrano 23:35, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
James Eyre (judge)

Sir James Eyre PC (1734 – 1 July 1799) was an English judge, the son of the Rev. Thomas Eyre, of Wells, Somerset.

Biography
He was educated at Winchester College and at St John's College, Oxford, which he left without taking a degree. He was called to the bar at Gray's Inn in 1755, through the influence of Thomas Parker, chief baron of the exchequer. He commenced practice in the lord mayors and sheriffs courts, paying £63 (2011: £0) for one of the four counsel to the City of London Corporation.

He was appointed Recorder of London in 1763 and knighted in 1770.

He was counsel for the plaintiff in the case of Wilkes v. Wood, and made a brilliant speech in condemnation of the execution of general search warrants. His refusal to voice the remonstrances of the corporation against the exclusion of Wilkes from Parliament earned him the recognition of the ministry, and he was appointed a Baron of the Exchequer in 1772 and Chief Baron of the Exchequer in 1787. From June 1792 to January 1793 he was Chief Commissioner of the Great Seal. In 1793 he was made Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, and presided over the trials of Horne Tooke, Robert Thomas Crossfield and others.

In 1793 statutory powers were sought by Bishop Yorke to sell Wisbech Castle and grounds. The Bill passed despite the opposition of Eyre and the premises were sold by auction in the same year to Joseph Medworth. Eyre was son-in-law of Henry Southwell of Bank House, Wisbech, Isle of Ely a member of the family tenanting the castle, and to that extent an interested party.

He was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society in May 1791.

He died in 1799 and was buried at Ruscombe in Berkshire.

title: James Eyre (judge)


text:
Talk:Creation science/Archive 6

Macroevolution or evolution
There's a problem with saying that "creation science is primarily concerned with issues such as...macroevolution". The issue is that while creation science proponents see their "beef" to be with macroevolution only, the scientific community doesn't see it to be that way. Many of the "issues" with which creation science deals are deciding what parts of science to keep and what parts to discard or change. In this way, parts of "evolution" are kept and parts of evolution are not. That creation science deals with macroevolution is of course true. That it doesn't deal with the rest of evolution is absurd because by saying that macroevolution and microevolution can be viewed separately, they are making a statement on all of evolution. Therefore it should be "evolution" and not just "macroevolution". Joshuaschroeder 22:17, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. Macroevolution is microevolution on a longer timescale. The proper term is evolution. -- Ec5618 12:24, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * So no "Hopeful Monsters"? No saltaions?  All change in gradual steps?  Interesting! Dan Watts 02:07, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Since Dan seems intent on proving he knows absolutely nothing about evolution: Yes, a gradual change in DNA can have a "major" change in phenotype. Bensaccount 21:47, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * True. Usually from 'living' to 'dead'. Dan Watts 00:15, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Evolution does not occur during a single lifetime. Please try and understand the basics before calling them "true". Bensaccount 00:56, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the tip. Are you attempting to recant your phenotype statement? Dan Watts 16:55, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Lets review: Evolution occurs because of changes in DNA from one generation to the next. A small/gradual change in DNA can have a large effect on phenotype from one generation to the next. Keep it up Dan, you are almost learning biology at a highschool level now. Bensaccount 18:28, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Wow! Changes in the DNA in each generation! No stasis here.  How does the poor cockroach keep itself together?  (I hope that you don't teach high school biology.) Dan Watts 00:51, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * You're kidding right? You really don't believe that the DNA of the parent is the same as the DNA of the child, do you? Even identical twins have variations in their DNA. Maybe you should take high school biology. Joshuaschroeder 12:59, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Now THAT sounds like variation within a population. Blue eyes vis Brown viz Green, hair color, etc. Or are you stating that perhaps we should put a net over every delivery room because the next child born may have wings? Dan Watts 17:46, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Have a look at polyploidy. Genome duplication can result in speciation from one generation to the next.  On the other hand, microsatellites can distinguish deviation at the level of a few generations.  So, yes, DNA changes from generation to generation - it also changes within individuals over the course of a lifetime.  Chimeras are much more common than was previously thought...most of us probably are.  But selection can only operate between generations.  Guettarda 17:57, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What other religions believe
Ungtss has restored the long-winded description of what other literalists in other religions might believe in (creation according to Genesis, great flood, etc). This is an unnecessary distraction editorially. There is no compelling reason to describe what these people who are, by the article's admission, not holders to creation science believe. We already say they are creationists, if they are that important let them be described on the creationism page or their own page. This is a page not about the beliefs of fundamentalists Bahai believers, it is a page about "creation science". Joshuaschroeder 22:17, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Scientific has a wider meaning than you think
Please do explain. Project2501a 21:42, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Creation science (or CS) is incorrectlydescribed by its proponents? Please. This edit was made to be controversial, and no effort was made to explain it on the talk page. -- Ec5618 22:17, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

 * They are incorrect. How hard is that to understand? Bensaccount 23:46, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I will agree wtih Bensaccount, though. Creation science is only by name. I was just not supporting the use of strong language. Project2501a 00:00, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. that part is throwing coal into the fire.

I was asking for explaination on the "Scientific has a wider meaning than you think". What is this "wider" meaning of science? Project2501a 23:05, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Definition: The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. (i.e. not limited to the more narrow world-view of the 'scientic method'). RossNixon 01:37, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * : *shakes head* Douglas Adams was right. it was a bad idea to come down from the trees in the first place... Strike that. Even the trees where a bad idea! Good, great. Um, I don't know if you remember but there was a time called the dark ages. Yes, terrible times. People went to the stake for saying the earth revolves around the sun because the bible said so. Allow me to express my sincere thanks for your efforts to push the world back in that direction. Thank you! Now, where's those five pints I ordered... Project2501a 03:03, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The 'scientific method' excludes all the supernatural. If "truth" includes the supernatural, then this method limits the chances of coming to correct conclusions. I prefer a 'science' that is not narrow-minded. Science = knowledge. Douglas Adams was funny, but wrong, and ultimately pathetic. RossNixon 09:05, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * If the "supernatural" is a part of empirical truth then it should be measurable commensurate to the scientific method. Then it usually isn't considered "supernatural" anymore. If God acts in a measurable way, then God or God's actions will be observable and no longer "supernatural" by the most strict of definitions. Science only excludes the supernatural that is considered to be unmeasurable. For example, belief in the soul need not have measurable effects in the natural world. Therefore the existence of the soul is not considered something that is scientifically-based. That doesn't mean that the soul doesn't exist, only that it isn't available for scientific measurement. It is unfortunate that people who find themselves trying to apologize for their belief in literalism find it necessary to attack emprical science because there is no reason to claim that all of truth must be based on empirical observation. Joshuaschroeder 09:11, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Creation science and parsimony
Joshuaschroeder implies that creationism attempts to account for what is descibed in Genesis. If that is a true reading of Joshua's negative statement, then it is wrong to delete anything about creationism being opposed to an infinitely old universe. That model (steady state) IS ruled out by what is described in Genesis, therefore, Occam's razor does not have free reign (by Joshua's logic) to disallow creationism since it does "add to" the argument concerning the maximum age of the universe. Q.E.D. Dan Watts 20:41, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Maybe you should apply parsimony to your writing Dan. That is the most convoluted paragraph I have ever seen. Bensaccount 22:53, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks. Any superlative from Ben is worth noting. Dan Watts

 * Don't thank me, you earned it. It takes work to make such undecipherable arguments. Bensaccount 15:32, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Indeed. I think what Dan is getting at is if Genesis is considered true then an infinite universe cannot be true. But that's not what the paragraph is getting at. What the paragraph is getting at is that any possibility is considered okay regardless of how outlandish as long as it fits an interpretation of Genesis. I have rewritten this to indicate that. Joshuaschroeder 23:17, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Indeed, you have removed at least one of the offending phrases. Dan Watts 02:00, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This is the first time i've ever seen anybody pull the Chewbacca defence on creationism. LOL :) Project2501a 00:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ungtss contribution
Ungtss has contributed the following:

 * === Creation science and the God of the Gaps ===
 * Another issue surrounded creation science is the God of the gaps argument. The God of the gaps argument provides that it is unreasonable to believe that natural phenomena are explained by divine action, because historically, science has continually explained phenomena that were previously seen as divine in origin.  Thus, creation science is seen as placing God in the "gaps" of science, when, in fact, further research into science should be placed in those gaps.

 * Creation scientists see the issue differently. They typically argue that the god of the gaps argument rests on the premise of philosophical naturalism that God does not act in the universe.  For if it is believed that God may act in the universe, then "gaps" in science may be filled with either naturalistic or theistic explanations, and neither is inherently more likely when the true answer is unknown.  "Gaps" in science should be presumed to have naturalistic explanations only when theistic causes are excluded a priori.  Thus, the god of the gaps argument depends on philosophical naturalism for its meaning.  Theistic realism, on the other hand, allows for the possibility of divine action in the universe as well as naturalistic causation.  If one starts with the premises of theistic realism, therefore, the "gaps" in science may be filled with either naturalistic or theistic explanations, but where naturalistic explanations are consistently shown to be unreasonable or impossible, it is reasonable to infer divine causes.

I think that this contribution is problematic because I haven't seen anyone who claims that those advocating creation science believe in God of the Gaps. That's more of an Intelligent Design critique. Most creation science folks think that science is wrong so that there is really no need for them to invoke any "gaps" except to say that they invent "gaps" where no gaps are to be found. Joshuaschroeder 20:41, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

List of CS claims
Anyone know if there is a list of CS claims/disinformation on Wikipedia? I remember seeing something like this... Bensaccount 21:13, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I just found it and its not on Wikipedia. It should be here. I am going for just the CS parts (the list there is creationism in general). Does anyone see a problem with me copying parts of this list to make a new list on Wikipedia? Bensaccount 16:12, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * That depends on the licence the information is released under. Also, I've been told such a list has been created before, and it was a failure. See Talk:Creation_science/Archive_4-- Ec5618 16:51, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Creation Science
In the article opening paragraph, there is a statement concerning the belief of all the "mainstream Christian churches." How is this group defined? Is it defined as all Christian churches that do not subscribe to CS? Dan Watts 22:03, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * That's a good point. I have revised the intro accordingly.  --JonGwynne 22:27, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Is there a reference on that statement? Falphin 22:35, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

if the mainstream churches
are not accepting creation science as a literal interpretation of the bible, doesn't that mean that mainstream theologists don't accept genesis as literal interpretation? Project2501a 15:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If the article is going to contain a statement to the effect that mainstream Christian churches consider (much of?) Genesis to be non-literal, then I request that there be a definition of "Mainstream Christian Churches." Otherwise, the statement is unsupportable. Dan Watts 19:17, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Good one, dan. first demanding a definition and then switching the article to fit your needs. Have you ever thought of running for office? Project2501a

 * Never let truth interfere with a chance to denigrate another. I last edited the article on 14:05, 23 Jun 2005, and anyone (even you) can see when my request for a definition was made. Dan Watts 23:02, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * O.K., O.K. I just reverted one of Ben's incessant POV's but as far as changes, the above time stands. Dan Watts 23:09, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * the article is pretty clear on who is mainstream. Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anglican and Lutheran  and yes, i got, um, 84% of christianity on this planet. I'm excluding the baptists mostly because they are one of the contending parties and they don't amount to more than say, 40 million, 30 of which is focused in the US, which makes them a minority. Project2501a 21:38, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Do you have a reference for the statement. Has the Pope declared that Creationism is false, as he is the head of the Catholic church etc. I'm not disagreeing with the statement but I believe a reference is needed. Falphin 23:07, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Let's break down your paragraph:
 * Do you have a reference for the statement. Do i have a reference for which statement?
 * Has the Pope declared that Creationism is false, as he is the head of the Catholic church etc. I'm not disagreeing with the statement but I believe a reference is needed.
 * You're changing subjects. I was talking about the literal interpretation of the bible vs mainstream theology, but i'll bite. Behold the power of google:, (gimmie 2 days and i'll get you the italian original ^_^ ). And that's just 5 minutes of searching.
 * As far the Eastern Orthodox Churches, they plead "no contest" to science. they do their thing and science does its own. The Eastern Orthodox article mentions:

 * Eastern Orthodox ecclesiology is "Christocentric", viewing Christ Jesus as the head of the Church, and the Church as his body; with authority derived directly from this relationship. This authority is held to be intrinsic to the whole Church in all her members and mediated by the Holy Spirit dynamically in Tradition. Eastern Orthodoxy has an extensive oral tradition that predates the actual texts of the New Testament, hence, it does not consider itself to be "bibliocentric"; which is the case with most forms of Protestantism. This, however, does not in any way diminish their respect and devotion toward Scriptures, but rather puts it into perspective as the texts accepted by the Church as most important. The Eastern Orthodox Church holds the Old Testament (Septuagint) in high esteem (as the New), including the Psalms (which are a part of daily services) and the prophecies leading up to the incarnation of Christ. While many parts of the Old Testament are considered edifying (teaching moral lessons about hospitality and the result of sin) it is not a requirement that everything be taken literally. The Orthodox Church does not seek any conflict with science. It tends to consider truth to be seen in the "Consensus of the Fathers" (the golden thread of agreement that runs back through the patristic writings of the Church Fathers back to the early Church and the Apostles). All theological concepts must be in agreement with the consensus of the Fathers in order to be considered truth. Rules and laws are deëmphasized in the Orthodox Church in favor of guidelines with love, compassion and mercy considered in all things.

 * Point being: I defined who the mainstream churches/denominations are. since they are the majority and everybody else is the minority, i would seriously think that the majority churches constitute the majority of the mainstream theology.

 * reference ok? Project2501a 00:43, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Thats fine, I didn't see a reference in the article which was my problem. I wasn't discussing the topic above but I wanted a reference for the statement before it remain in the article. Falphin 01:02, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

CS's pathetic attempts are noteworthy
Got anything to add to this? Perhaps you think it is "scientific"? Edit: Creation science's attempt to question the reliability of dendrochronology. Bensaccount 23:44, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * You bet! See or  with  mentioning the problem and this link from UT  also discusses it.  Seek and ye shall find. Dan Watts 30 June 2005 12:18 (UTC)

Heres a summary of what these four links seem to be: Is there a reason why you post these links Dan? Are these supposed to be CS? Are you ever going to produce the data for Lammert's so called "experiment"? Bensaccount 30 June 2005 21:17 (UTC)
 * 1) "Just about everyone is familiar with the idea that trees put on one ring a year."
 * 2) Questions for Neil (whoever that is)
 * 3) Tree ring analysis of Larix griffithiana -- Rings in this tree have been found very distinct, with clear demarcation of early wood and late wood cells and have characters suitable for dendroclimatic studies.
 * 4) There are many ways of assessing vegetation change, but one of the oldest and most reliable is by dendrochronology--the study of tree rings.

 * Only if given permission. Otherwise, you may look it up yourself.  What you didn't mention in the links:
 * 1) - "In fact, the idea that trees lay down a ring each year is an over-simplification; in different parts of the world trees do not necessarily lay down a ring on a yearly basis, and some trees in unusual conditions will miss rings, or produce multiple rings in a year"
 * 2) - " Myvonwynn Hopton has worked up several chronologies of tulip-poplar, black birch and cucumbertree, trees not commonly studied via tree-ring analysis. From her experiences with these trees it appears that false rings are a significant problem. One cucumbertree had 25 false rings on one radii!! We figured this out because the other radii from that tree "only" had 5 false rings. The core with 25 false rings is not datable for much of its inner "80 years.""
 * 3) - Neil is Neil Pederson of the Eastern Native Tree Society; from the third "Being under the influence of pronounced precipitation, with varying intensity, this region is somewhat problematic for such studies.  Under such climatic conditions trees are expected to have false or multiple rings.";
 * 4) - "If the climate of an area has two distinct rainy seasons separated by periods of no rain, trees will add two rings per year."

 * Dan Watts 1 July 2005 01:30 (UTC)

I don't think scientific data is copyrightable. I don't see the problem with summarizing the procedure and the results and telling me if anyone has repeated the experiment and received the same results. Bensaccount 1 July 2005 15:30 (UTC)

 * Law is not suspended by your thought. Try posting some article from the American Journal of Physics, and see how they react.  They don't have the copyright symbol on their page just because they think it is cute.
 * I don't know of any repeated experiments on the subject. You are welcome to try yourself.
 * As to the reason that I posted the links, your original post on the page linked at the top of this discussion had an incorrect (as shown by these links) statement concerning scientific inquiry on the rate of tree ring growth.

One can not copyright saying "Lammerts did this and found that" if it is true. However I suspect that the "results" obtained are more a creative work than a scientific experiment. Bensaccount 3 July 2005 16:34 (UTC)

Creation science (or CS) is pseudoscience
I removed the remarks about psedoscience. Its already stated in the third paragraph in a much more NPOV format. However if this statement is kept the third paragraph in the introduction should be removed. Of course all of this is, IMHO. Falphin 23:56, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I restored the remarks since the reasons for removal (as usual) are simply incorrect. It is not stated in the third paragraph. Bensaccount 00:06, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Ben mate calm down a little bit. Even though it is pseudoscience, and yes the lead section should be balanced, you have to state what the position is before criticising it.  Anyone with any sense ought then to be able to see its failings. Dunc|☺ 00:09, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * How is it not stated in the third paragraph? Falphin 00:11, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If this was called Advocates of Creation science you would have to describe the advocates position first; but it isn't. As for the usual incorrect reasons for removing any objective description of CS: It is different when you attribute it to scientists. It is more POV to attribute a judgement like that to scientists since you can not state what the opinion of every scientist is without making a generalization. To be NPOV one needs to first give an objective description, only after which you can discuss the various POVs. Bensaccount 00:19, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree, you have to give the basic definition of what the topic is. Further description and connections are to be made in the rest of the introduction. I'm stating this for the same reason as why I don't believe info on Pakistan's support of United States against terrorism/support of Taliban should be in the first paragraph it has nothing to do with CS. I believe its a POV to have it there. But like I said before this is IMHO, I'm not willing to get into an edit war over it. Falphin 00:26, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You are entitled to your opinion but I think that you DO have to give the basic definition of what the topic is. Starting off by saying what CS proponents think just doesn't cut it. Bensaccount 01:35, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Well personally I hate the current first paragraph. I do think it is a POV as of now. The paragraph should be restarted but I believe it is redunant and a POV to state that it is a Psedoscience when its in the third paragraph. Falphin 01:40, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * *bbbbzzzzzzt* Logical error.
 * Redunant? maybe. Redunansy does not constitute POV, though. It may, or may not, constitute bad writing style, depending on the occasion. In this case, I would prefer mentioning that it is a pseudoscience on both paragraphs.
 * It's a POV to state that it's pseudoscience Why? Since when stating the truth is considered POV?
 * If the intro to the paragraph is rewritten, it will only serve to make it more dilluted. Project2501a 07:53, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Um, it is not in the third paragraph. I don't know how you can confuse attributing an opinion to with stating a fact. The former is POV and generalization. Bensaccount 01:45, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The paragraph states that it is not scientificaly sound, that it lacks a foundation, that it rarely goes through peer-review and that it is a pseudoscience. Many people don't consider it a pseudoscience, and even some scientists so the paragraph is more NPOV than stating than the statement in the opening paragraph. Falphin 01:51, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC

The same old arguments are getting recycled here. Just because some people disagree with reality does not make it POV to state the facts. We landed on the moon. That is not a POV. Bensaccount 02:00, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The isssue is that there is a lot of someones. I just feel that the third paragraph is a clearer version of the statement in the first paragraph. Falphin 02:06, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Those "many" people are 32 million baptists in the southern United states. Which makes them a minority. A small one, too, compared to the world. You are making an appeal to emotion: "many people don't believe it's a pseudoscience, so, let's not hurt their feelings" (Logical fallacy). Therefore, it's a non-issue: Just because it doesn't bid well with their feelings, it doesn't null the fact. Science does not accomodate the facts to fit the scientists beliefs. In my opinion, it should be both on the first and on the third paragraph. That way people with a short attention span, can read the first 2 sentences or first paragraph and get an explicit understanding that is it a pseudoscience. Anybody that wishes to understand why it's a pseudoscience, can then read the third paragraph for the explaination. Project2501a 07:53, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Neil armstong says he landed on the moon. Neil armstong landed on the moon. They are not the same. I really would like some more objective people here. I give up for today. Bensaccount 02:12, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Have edited the intro. I've put the pseudoscience point into the first paragraph and avoided repeating the same words in the third paragraph (for style). I agree with Project2501a that the point should be made in the first paragraph but I agree with Bensaccount that it should be attributed. Barnaby dawson 09:34, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I said facts should be stated and opinions should be attributed. It is a fact that CS is unscientific. As usual, the reason for not stating this as a fact is missing. Bensaccount 28 June 2005 20:58 (UTC)

 * Amazingly, I've thought of doing the exact same thing for a long time. As the article stood, it noted the proponent's view first, and the opponent's view second. Now, it's reversed.
 * I'm not sure I mind, though in most articles, the positive discription precedes the critique. -- Ec5618 10:48, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm a bit peeved now.
 * Ok, so Bensaccount added 'pseudoscience' to the intro, which is hardly an attempt to reach concensus. He has been adding this word for weeks, several times bordering on vandalism. I removed it. I'm absolutely sure anyone who has been paying attention to this page knows my reasoning by now. Apparently, Bensaccount has not been paying attention, as can be deduced from his reversion summary:
 * undoing Ecs unexpained reversion. His unexplained personal preference does not get to stay when facts are being mistaken for opinions.
 * Mentioning 'unexplained' twice. Nice. And I am not mistaking facts for opinions. In an article on creation science, no fact is holy, as that is exactly what creation science is about. You might feel that it is a fact that Scientology is a cult. It might fit the common definition of cult. But the article on creationism does not claim that it is a fact. -- Ec5618 June 29, 2005 05:36 (UTC)

So we have more rhetoric from Ec, but still no reason for ignoring facts. Just a vague attempt to make it seem like there is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to opinionated minority groups. Apparently all Ec has is the ability to say "I already explained myself, so I don't have to explain anything ever again". Bensaccount 29 June 2005 15:31 (UTC)

 * Rhetoric, thank you. /Archive_4.
 * Creation science has proponents and opponents. Its proponents claim its scientific.
 * Creationists are not lying. Even if you assume they are wrong, they are probably not conspiring to tell conscious lies.
 * The introduction of an article is not a place to make a point. No. Please, that is what the section on critisism in the creationism article is all about.
 * The intro does not in any way suggest that Creation Science is considered by anyone in this world to be true, excluding its proponents. These proponents may truly believe that creation science is science, and it is offensive to suggest that while they are entitled to their beliefs, they believe in a lie.
 * This has gone far enough, we should be able to compromise. The main problem, as I see it, is that you want to make it clear that creationism is not science, while I want to make it clear that creationism is not generally considered to be science, as science is not clearly defined.
 * Have you read WP:NPOV since I suggested it?
 * "The policy is easily misunderstood. It doesn't assume that it's possible to write an article from a single, unbiased, objective point of view. The policy says that we should fairly represent all sides of a dispute, and not make an article state, imply, or insinuate that any one side is correct."
 * I've copy/pasted most of these comments. They still apply.
 * Finally, I said, in response to your ideas on NPOV:
 * "I don't get how you justify what you just did. I showed you that your interpetation of policy is wrong, and you accuse me of twisting policy. Are you saying that you disagree with policy?" -- Ec5618 June 29, 2005 16:47 (UTC)

Rhetoric is not something to be proud of Ec. It means your "reasons" are loud, confused and empty talk. As for your copy and paste move: If these are your "reasons" for misrepresenting fact as opinion, they are seriously lacking substance. Here is a reminder of my previous answers to your nonsense. Don't twist NPOV. Not assuming there is a single objective viewpoint is different from disallowing the objective viewpoint when it exists (as much as you wish it were the same). Bensaccount 30 June 2005 21:37 (UTC)
 * 1) Never said the contrary.
 * 2) Never said the contrary.
 * 3) The introduction should summarize all of the points.
 * 4) Offending CS proponents is no reason to avoid objectivity.

title: Talk:Creation science/Archive 6


text:
RTorrent

rTorrent is a text-based BitTorrent client written in C++, based on the ncurses and libTorrent (not to be confused with libtorrent) libraries for Unix, whose author's goal is "a focus on high performance and good code".

Technical details
The library differentiates itself from other implementations by transferring data directly between file pages mapped to memory by the mmap function and the network stack. On high-bandwidth connections, it claims to be able to seed at three times the speed of the official client.

rTorrent packages are available for various Linux distributions and Unix-like systems, and it will compile and run on nearly every POSIX-compliant operating system, such as FreeBSD and macOS.

rTorrent uses the ncurses library and is suitable for use with GNU Screen or Tmux; it uses commands such as Carriage return to load a torrent, after which ^S can be used to start a torrent (where ^ is shorthand for Ctrl key), backspace can be used to automatically start a torrent once it is loaded, making a subsequent issue of ^S unnecessary, ^K for stop, and ^D for pause, or if already paused or stopped, ^D again to delete the torrent. It supports saving of sessions and allows the user to add and remove torrents. It also supports partial downloading of multi-file torrents. In the release of rTorrent-0.7.0 support for BitTorrent protocol encryption was also implemented. PEX, DHT and initial seeding were recently implemented in rTorrent.

rTorrent can be controlled via XML-RPC over SCGI.

title: RTorrent


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Car-stopping technology

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 talk 02:53, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Car-stopping technology
Advert (see above) Bobbis 00:01, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Agreed. Gwk 00:08, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. (or redirect to one of brake, wall, telephone pole...?) CDC   (talk)  02:29, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I would add gun, SWAT team, police car and spike strip to the list above. UncleFloyd 05:01, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete — proposed legislation; article of this nature needs more references to stand on its own merits. — RJH 23:01, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, only Google hits for "Hallitubes", other than WP mirrors, are someone's home page - hoax/unverifiable as a legislative proposal.  Dcarrano 23:35, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

car-stopping technology IS under development. Not covering the details makes wkipedia poorer
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spot-a-lot

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 talk 02:49, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Spot-a-lot
Advert Bobbis 00:02, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Agreed. Gwk 00:06, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete — proposed legislation; article of this nature needs more references to stand on its own merits. — RJH 23:00, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, only Google hits for "Hallitubes", other than WP mirrors, are someone's home page - hoax/unverifiable as a legislative proposal.  Dcarrano 23:35, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Swan Valley

Swan Valley may refer to:

In Australia:
 * Swan Valley (Western Australia), a region
 * Swan Valley Nyungah Community

In Canada:
 * Swan River Valley, a valley between the Duck and Porcupine Mountains in Manitoba
 * Swan Valley Stampeders, a Manitoba Junior Hockey League team

In the United States:
 * Swan Valley, Idaho
 * Swan Valley High School, Saginaw, Michigan

title: Swan Valley