text:
Talk:Lake Sevan

Comment
Lake Sevan, formerly known as Gegham in ancient times, was never referred to as Gokcha (or Goktscha) by the inhabitants of Armenia. Gokcha is an informal name given by non-Armenians and is not recognized in any official manner. --4.42.6.234 22:11, 11 July 2005
 * Yes, Gokcha is the Turkish name for the lake, never used by Armenians themselves. However, the name was prominent enough to appear in numerous English, German and Russian literature, historic texts and maps. For example, a species of fish endemic to the lake was named the "Gokcha barbel", with the binomial name Barbus goktschaicus, these names remaining official to this day . Overall, there is enough usage of the term in Western languages to justifiy a mention in an English encyclopaedia article. Even the Great Soviet Encyclopedia lists Gokcha as an alternate name . --Aramգուտանգa|  13:57, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm sure everything in the Great Soviet Encyclopeadia is absolutely historically accurate. Lake Sevan was known by many other names as well, especially in ancient Greek and Roman sources. If we were to mention the name of the lake in every source one encounters, the whole page would be filled with former Sevan names. If we're going down that road, we might as well refer to every place-name with a Turkish name that's referenced in sources. Also, just because a species of animal is named a certain way, does not validate it's common use. Finally, because of the insistence of so many to call Sevan by its non-Armenian name Gokcha, the new Google World service (3D maps of the world) has mistakenly referred to Sevan as Gokcha. --4.42.6.234 18:21, 12 July 2005
 * Since this is an English encyclopaedia article, it should list any alternate names that have a reasonably high rate of occurence in English language sources, irrespective of their official status. The fact that even Google mistakenly uses the term Gokcha shows that there is reasonable likelyhood that someone will look up the lake in an encyclopaedia using the name. The fact that it's mentioned in the article helps people recognise that it is not the official name, rather than be confused by its absence. P.S. Plase sign your posts in the future by typing ~ . Thanks.--Aramգուտանգa|  04:49, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Geycha
I added the rendering "Geycha" because someone used it in the article Siunik. -- Beland 15:08, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

The Azeri name
I don't quite follow your logic, Hakob. I see the Armenian name at Kars, Van, Diyarbakır, Yozgat, and even İzmir—all of those cities are situated in the Republic of Turkey, so are they unnecessary as well? I don't recall their being a Wikipedia rule that states historical names can't be mentioned in articles. — Khoikhoi 01:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Me neither. So can I now add the Persian and Armenian names for Ganja? Hakob 09:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Go right ahead... — Khoikhoi 00:21, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Lake Sevan was never part of Turkey or Azerbaijan. History shows this. Therefore, the names should not be included. Names in other languages should only be applied if a certain region was part of country at one point. -- Clevelander 23:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * We surely do not follow THIS rule when we use names such as Leghorn for Livorno or Cologne for Köln or Moscow for Moskwa.Cosal 01:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, my mistake. I didn't mean to say "place names," I was thinking of something else.  It's fixed now, though.  -- Clevelander 01:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * So we should also remove the Armenian names from Rize and İzmir? They were never part of Armenia — Khoikhoi 01:45, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Rize was part of Byzantine Armenia and Lesser Armenia (not to be confused with the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia). The present-day Rize province even includes the Hemşin (or Hamshen) region where the Hamsheni Armenians orginated from.  You're right about İzmir, though.  It was never part of Armenia.  Its only significance to Armenian history was its noteworthy Armenian population which greatly contributed to Western Armenian culture.  -- Clevelander 01:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, I didn't know that. My point is that there is no rule for including or not including historic/alternate names. — Khoikhoi 02:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I see where you're coming from now. -- Clevelander 02:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine by me. :) — Khoikhoi 02:14, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Gokcha
The article states that Gokcha was a former name. Shouldn't it be changed to alternative name? Correct me if I'm wrong. Vartanm 03:04, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I added 4 references to the name of lake being Gokcha. In light of magnitude of references on Google and JSTOR using this historical name, it should be kept where it is, instead of removing it. Sevan name of the lake was only on the maps in 20th century. Atabek 07:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

hmm, I may have been wrong on Gokcha. I simply editted a little, took out 2 sources and removed the Goycha spelling, as it's hits are almost exclusively Azeri sites dealing with claiming this land, and the spelling was not used previously.Hetoum I 03:19, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I removed the Azeri language template from the name Gokcha. It was the name applied by Turkic invaders to the Gegham Sea. Modern inhabitants of Azerbaijan got nothing to do with it.--  Ευπάτωρ   Talk!! 15:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Right after the paragraph about urartian inscriptions: Later the lake was for a long time known as Gokcha is POV. This toponym is used in presented selective sources from late 19th century. Then selecting a single word later (since when, nothing about it mentioned in surce) from one source and based on 3 other sources from late 19th century it's concluded: "Later the lake was was for a long time (since urartian times) known as  Gokcha". Must be reformulated and presented coherently with sources. "In some 19 century sources(references here), the lake is referred as Gokcha". The content must be based on sources. Here a POV is presented and then sources used unsuccesfully to back it up Hayordi (talk) 15:35, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree, the sentence should have that part removed. instead i think we should include during which time period, "from X century to X century it was known as Gokcha" or something to that extent. The current sentence is not correct. Ninetoyadome (talk) 20:39, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Two of the sources are taken from late 19th century russian encyclopedic dictionary, which defines it's meening at time of beeing (late 19th century), where it also mentions it's armenian name Sevanga exclusion of which is POV. The third one is an atlas of empirial russia from 1882 (again late 19th century). No more than that should be reflected in the content. Encyclopedia Iranica does not provide any aditional information, and can be excluded. The appearance of name Gökçe-deniz(blue sea) in some turkish book of 16th century is irrelevant here. Hayordi (talk) 23:17, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

All in all, we have sources from as early as the 16th century and as late as the 20th century where this lake is referred to as Gokcha. Parishan (talk) 01:55, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The map is not from "empirial Russia" (I assume you mean Imperial). It is an Edinburgh-published map where all toponymy is given in English (take a better look: ), so your formulation of the sources as "Russian" is incorrect. This was an internationally known term, otherwise how can one explain the Turkic name appearing on European (French and English) maps from 1790 (taken from here ), from 1775, from 1771 and from 1675?
 * The name cannot be Russian, because it appears in the 17th-century travel records of Kâtip Çelebi (translated by Papazian, an Armenian historian; the words in parenthesis are translator's notes, they do not appear in the original text): "Река Занги (Раздан) вытекает из моря Гёкча (озера Севан), расположенного на севере, достигает Ревана и недалеко от крепости Баязет сливается с Араксом" ?
 * "Some Turkish book" is a twelve-volume medieval epic of the Oghuz Turks which you should probably get acquainted with before making such bold and ignorant statements. You cannot discard a source because it is Turkic. Needless to say, the 16th-century manuscript was translated by one of the most prominent Russian Orientalists, Vasily Bartold, who was the one who stated that Gokcha mentioned in the text refers to the present-day Lake Sevan. The translated version with Bartold's commentaries is found here:.
 * The term Gökcha and Gökcha-Daniz referring to the surrounding of the Lake Sevan appears in the 1504 order of Ismail I: (see the commentaries), taken from here.

First of all do not misinterpret my words.
 * It's a atlas of Imperial Russia, it doesn't say from Russia.
 * On from 1790 (taken from here ) you referred to, it appears as Sevan. You better check your own sources.
 * You present selected maps, where toponyms are are presented exclusively in turkish, from turkish POV.
 * Kâtip Çelebi and Book of Dede Korkut are turkish sources, did I doubt that? In eastern Anatolia almost none of the former more than 12000 Armenia native toponyms exist anymore. Did I doubt that turks rename Armenian toponyms? Gokcha was neither local nor official name. It's foreign, not english, but a turkish name, and shouldn't be included in the article at all. Hayordi (talk) 11:51, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

 * How exactly does the fact that this is an atlas of Imperial Russia speak against my wording?
 * I do check my sources: on this map you can clearly see to the right of the lake the words "Gheuksha ou Eau bleue" which in French means "Gokcha or Blue Water".
 * Those maps are not Turkish (Turkey at the time did not use the Latin alphabet). They are were published in France and England in the 17th and 18th centuries. I suggest you take another look: 1775 (this map was designed by Paolo Santini which does not appear to be a Turkish name), 1771 (this map mentions Meridien de Paris at the bottom) and 1675 (this map mentions John Speede as its author at the top). What made you think they were "Turkish"?
 * Renamed or not renamed - this was the toponym that many sources used to refer to this lake. Turkish "renaming" does not undo the historical significance of the toponym and does not explain why it was used by the Shah of Iran in 1504, long before the Ottoman Empire had control of the Caucasus. It does appear as a universal toponym, after all. Parishan (talk) 00:18, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

On at least two of your referred maps also the native name Sevan appears. Where did I claim maps being turkish? I stated that toponyms on the map are almost exclusively turkish. Concluding on selective sources that this name was universal is POV. One thing that is undisputable is that Gokcha is a turkish topnonym, isn't it? Turkish, not Armenian, hence foreign not native. Hayordi (talk) 12:38, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

 * I do not understand your argument of a toponym being "almost exclusively Turkish". How exactly does that exclude this toponym from being mentioned? Sevan is an almost exclusively Armenian toponym and Lychnitis  is exclusively Greek toponym. So what? It was an alternative name that appeared in third-party sources. Your argument about "selective sources" is irrelevant - it would only apply if I wanted to replaced "Sevan" with "Gokcha" altogether, whereas I am only showing that there existed an alternative name, and "selective sources" are not prohibited in this case, and neither is "non-nativeness", whatever that means. Parishan (talk) 20:13, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Sevan is Armenian, native, official toponym. Greek at least was used extensively in Armenia at some point. I'm not sure whether Lychnitis was official at any point. But Gokcha is established to be Turkish, hence foreign. Sure throughout last millenium Armenia has been invaded by several turkish tribes. So did several European contries by Russians. But imposing turkish names as historical names in Armenia is as ridiculous as imposing Russian names as historical German toponyms. Hayordi (talk) 20:49, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

 * I do not follow your argumentation. Where exactly do Wikipedia rules state that only "native" names should be mentioned and all the other historically relevant ones ignored? And what makes you believe that Greek was used in Armenia any more "extensively" than Turkic languages spoken in Armenia for a thousand years? Parishan (talk) 05:05, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * WOW! Turkic language spoken in Armenia for 1000 years? Turkic langage has never been an official/unofficial language in Armenia. If you mean that several invading forces where turkic speaking, that's another deal. There are a lot of Greek manuscripts in matenadaran writen by Armenian historians, which was common during meadle ages and before that. I've seen them personaly. So greek was at some point commonly used language by Armenians. My point is that Gockcha is neither alternative nor official name, if not simply Turkic. Your original edit in article was that the name of the lake was for a long time known as Gokcha. That was reformulated. We can reformulate it as:

"Turkic and some ottoman era sources refer to it as Gokcha". That's a common ground. Hayordi (talk) 13:30, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

 * No, it is not. The sources above show that the term Gokcha appears in French, English, Russian and Persian sources of the medieval era, not only in Turkish. Add a Latin source to that as well: Barbus goktschaicus. The "official vs. non-official" or "invader vs. non-invader" dichotomy is completely irrelevant here. They idea of "official toponymy" did not even exist at the time. And I do not understand why you keep making "invasion" references in every single message - they do not determine the historical relevance of toponymy one bit. Like it or not, Turkic was spoken in what is now Armenia for centuries, including in the immediate neighbourhood of the Lake Sevan where the Turkic-speaking population formed the majority until the late 1980s. As for the Greek name, there is no evidence that Armenian scholars writing manuscripts in Greek used the name Lychnitis to refer to Sevan. Parishan (talk) 00:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Just some remarks. Medieval era is by definition 5th to 15th century. So none of your presented sources are medieval. Russian translation of turkish souce doesn't make it a russian source. "in the immediate neighbourhood of the Lake Sevan where the Turkic-speaking population formed the majority until the late 1980s"? Where did yo find that? I didn't deny that turkic was spoken in Armenia, but only buy turkic foreigner at some point, just like Russian was spoken buy Russians invaders in Germany after it's capitulation in WW2 Hayordi (talk) 04:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Brockhaus and Efron is an original Russian source, not translated from Turkish, and it lists Gokcha as the primary name for this lake, specifying that the name Sevanga is only used by Armenians.
 * The earliest source at hand that mentions the toponym Gokcha is the 1504 Persian document, so we could precise the period as "...known as Gokcha at least from the early Modern era".
 * I do not know what you mean by "Turkic foreigner at some point", but the territory we call Armenia today had permanent Turkic-speaking settlements for centuries until the beginning of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict; and I am not sure what exactly you are trying to disagree with here. Parishan (talk) 05:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * If you (as a matter of speech) travel to foreign country and settle there, then you're a foreigner. That's what I meant with a foreigner. "nown as Gokcha at least from the early Modern era", "for a long time known as Gokcha". Isn't that POV. The historical names are provided in the article, Gokcha was used in selective, primarily Turkic sources, e.g. Kâtip Çelebi, Book of Dede Korkut. Even though these where translated into Russian, it doesn't make them Russian sources. Brockhaus and Efron dictionary is original Russian source, which itself refers to turkic sources, e.g. Ср. М. Гульельми. Even in two of your selective maps Gokcha is used in addition to Sevan: from 1775, [on this map]. Hayordi (talk) 15:41, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I do not know what your definition of a foreigner is, but by your logic everyone is a foreigner, because the humankind, including ancestors of Armenians, originates in East Africa and are therefore considered 'foreigners' on every other continent. In any event, this does not constitute an argument. There is absolutely no rule on Wikipedia that would demand the use of 'native' names only (we have examples like Lviv), especially when 'native' does not have a clear definition. What exactly makes the Azeri population of the Erivan Governorate 'non-native'?
 * It does not matter if the sources were Turkic or not. It matters that this name existed and is historically attested. And the fact that it appears outside of Turkic sources (Persian, Italian, French, English, Russian) only reinforces the fact that 16th to 19th centuries travellers were aware of the existence of this name and considered it relevant enough to include it in their maps.
 * 'Гульельми' is not a Turkish source, it is the Russian spelling of the Italian name Guglielmi. Parishan (talk) 15:21, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Listen Hayordi, Gokcha is a former name of the body of water now known as Lake Sevan. Anyone who knows anything about the geography or history of Armenia knows that. The name Gokcha (or slight variants of it) appear on numerous different 19th century and earlier European maps. I am not a supporter of adding ethnicity claims to place names, and it would not have been just Turkish speakers who called it Gokcha. There just needs to be a mention in the article's intro that a former name of the lake was Gokcha and what that name means. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 23:47, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Etymology
this article says: Later scientists found that "Suinia" or "Tsuinia" means "lake" or "basin" in Urartian. / also sue = "lake" in Urartian language. Van < Biainili, the same -van part here? Böri (talk) 11:24, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Size of the lake
Does anyone have a recent citation for the dimensions of the lake? The infobox says that the lake is 78 km at its longest, although it does not cite a source (the length and width are not listed in the "Lake Sevan: Experience and Lessons Learned Brief" cited elsewhere). I examined the recent satellite imagery in Google Maps and the lake does not appear to be longer than 73 km. Has it shrunk since 2005? If so, is the 2005 figure for the lake area (940 km²) cited in the infobox now inaccurate? Ketone16 (talk) 20:58, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Lake Sevan. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for http://www.ilec.or.jp/eg/lbmi/pdf/21_Lake_Sevan_27February2006.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 07:29, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Fish
I miss some information on where the current fish and plants found in the lake come from, if it is only 30,000 years old. I understand that some have been introduced recently by humnas. What about the rest? Are they descendants of river fauna and flora? --Error (talk) 19:56, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Turkic name in the lede
As our fellow also mentioned about consensus, today I add this discussion to talk about the possibility of adding a Turkic name of Lake Sevan which could be easily find in 19th century sources (Gokcha) in the lede of this article.

I don't think it is problematic because some places on the shore of Lake Sevan was predominantly inhabited by Turks, Tatar, or Turkic people prior to the 20th century. They formed a predominant inhabitants not just for one or two decades.

Adding a Turkic name to article like Lake Sevan will not undermine its location within a territory of Republic of Armenia which is acknowledged unanimously by international community.

There was no consensus reached that outlawed putting Turkic name in the lede of Lake Sevan. There was a discussion back in 2015 or 2016 and it ended with no consensus, just a debate whether Turkic was invader or not, foreign or not, etc. Mfikriansori (talk) 07:39, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Lake Sevan has several alternative names besides your favorite, Sea of Gegham or Lychnitis as two examples.
 * Oppose to your proposal once again per MOS:ALTNAME: "If there are three or more alternative names, or if there is something notable about the names themselves, they may be moved to and discussed in a separate section with a title such as 'Names' or 'Etymology'." An etymology section already exists with multiple alternative names. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 12:21, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

Do we need a new map?
The aerial view does not match the map at all! The lake is much thinner in the aerial view and has a much bulging “belly” in the map! 82.36.70.45 (talk) 14:19, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Mogolian pronunciation
@Vanezi Astghik, I just saw that this edit was reverted[1 ] months ago. That's not a duplicate name necessarily. It's Mongolian pronunciation. Also what makes this undue? Faruk Sümer is well-known author has been cited extensively.  Aredoros87  (talk) 18:49, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

 * See WP:WEIGHT. The lake has no significant connection to Mongolia. Vanezi (talk) 19:59, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm familiar with WEIGHT and my addition definitely does not belong to it. Faruk Sumer is well-known author. He has been cited a lot (including wikipedia). As you can see on the article the Turkic name has been mentioned too. And it should not be hard to see the similarity between these 2 names. Moreover, Azerbaijanis used to be majority in surrounding areas of the lake. And if we consider Turkic population migrated there during Mongol invasions, it has pretty enough connection.  Aredoros87  (talk) 20:29, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * More sources would be needed to prove the noteworthiness of Mongolian name, the Turkic name is only there because it was used in some western sources for a time. Vanezi (talk) 13:12, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lake Sevan


text:
Talk:World Class Championship Wrestling

Length
Since the article is beginning to get quite lengthy and detailed, I removed the paragraph on announcers and added the dates of their tenure to the Announcers section instead. --Mudshark66 02:10, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Please change it back. Prose is always to be preferred over lists. See Embedded list.   — Gwalla | Talk 05:05, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Okay...but the reason I removed it in the first place is because, upon giving it some thought, I felt the info on announcers was a bit tangential, and not that important to the history of the promotion. However, I've now restored the info, rewriting it to make it a bit less confusing than it undoubtedly was before, and even managed to squeeze in a little additional information. Hope this is a good resolution to the issue. --Mudshark66 15:29, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks, thats a definite improvement.   — Gwalla | Talk 20:46, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Eventually, I will reduce the page to add links to major storylines that kept World Class hot, especially the Freebird-Von Erichs and Adams/Hernandez-Von Erichs feuds. RobDon33

 * Regarding KTVT's decision to drop its Saturday Night wrestling programs, I am not sure Eric Embry's profanity caused the program to be cancelled. One of two things occurred: either it was cancelled following a July 1990 incident in which John Tatum superkicked a female valet named Tessa in the face; or, there was profanity from either Percy Pringle or another wrestler.  Or in all liklihood, the promotion could not keep up with the costs of producing the 2-hour wrestling program and simply cancelled it altogether.  Keep in mind that World Class was on the verge of folding, and when the USWA pulled out in September, WCCW was gone three months later.

-RobDon33- 01-10-2006 at 02:56 UTC

Why don't we just create a category for WCCW. I mean, with all the history it has, we could have an alumni subcategory, a curse subcategory, etc.. I feel it merits a cagtegory because of the history and so forth. fishhead2100 12:25PM April 27 2006 (UTC)

Category
I made a category for WCCW. I also made one subcategory so far. It is the alumni category. To add the category, do the category as normal, but put World Class Championship Wrestling alumni. fishhead2100 April 28, 2006 1:30AM (UTC)

 * I also made a page called World Class curse. fishhead2100 April 30, 2006 7:32PM (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Worldclass.gif
Image:Worldclass.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 09:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Love the subject, hate the article
Man this article is a mess, I am a huge WCCW fan and reading this mish-mosh of kayfabe, rumors, fanism and poor English hurts my head. I'm going to pull a cohesive article out of this, possibly even a Good Article.  MPJ  -DK 00:28, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned references in World Class Championship Wrestling
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of World Class Championship Wrestling's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "NWA": From Verne Gagne:  From Millennium Wrestling Federation:  From Danny McShain:  From Dusty Rhodes (wrestler):  From Vendetta Pro Wrestling:  From John Quinn (wrestler):  From Universal Wrestling Federation (Bill Watts):

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 06:34, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Big Time Wrestling (Detroit) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 09:02, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Good god
Who wrote this rambling nonsense? Excessive is an understatement. Far too much non-notable and nearly all without references. I'll wager no one has read a fraction of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.216.106.183 (talk) 18:50, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:World Class Championship Wrestling


text:
CIBX-FM

CIBX-FM (106.9 MHz) is a commercial radio station in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada, owned by Bell Media and known as Move 106.9. It broadcasts an adult contemporary format. The studios and offices are on Rookwood Avenue in Fredericton, shared with sister stations CFXY-FM and CKHJ.

CIBX-FM has an effective radiated power (ERP) of 78,000 watts, horizontal polarization only. The transmitter is on Provincial Route 620 at Route 617, at Hamtown Corner in Douglas, northwest of Fredericton.

History
CIBX traces its history to the first radio station in New Brunswick, CFNB. The call letters stood for Fredericton, New Brunswick. The station went on the air under the experimental call sign of 10AD, broadcasting at 1210 kilocycles in 1923. It was granted a full license as CFNB in 1926. CFNB then moved to 1030 in 1933, and to 550 in 1934.

The station was affiliated with the CBC's Trans-Canada Network. In 1959 the station increased its power to 50,000 watts, giving it full-time coverage over most of the Maritime Provinces. The CBC affiliation was dropped in 1964 when the network started its own station in Fredericton, CBZ. CFNB played a full service, adult contemporary format before switching to oldies in the early 1990s.

In 1996, CFNB's parent company, Radio Atlantic, was granted permission to move its signal to 106.9 FM and to shut down the AM transmitter. The call sign changed in the process, and after a brief simulcast period, CFNB 550 signed off the air on June 11 of that year. The new station, CIBX, played soft adult contemporary music. The former CFNB call sign now belongs to a radio station in D'Arcy, British Columbia, known as CFNB-FM. Over time, CIBX evolved towards adult contemporary.

Between 2000 and 2005, CIBX used the on-air "EZ Rock" branding along with other stations in Canada, while using Capital FM as a secondary name. Eventually, "EZ Rock" was phased out as a moniker.

As of July 18, 2012, CIBX officially flipped to Top 40/CHR. It was one of two Top 40 outlets in the Fredericton radio market as it took on rival station CFRK-FM. The competition lasted nearly three years. On May 31, 2015, CFRK flipped to country music, which left CIBX as the only Top 40 station in the market.

CIBX and seven other radio stations in the Atlantic Provinces are currently owned by Bell Media.

On December 27, 2020, as part of a mass format reorganization by Bell Media, CIBX shifted to Hot AC and rebranded as Move 106.9. While the station ran without DJs for the first week of the format, the on-air staff returned on January 4, 2021.

In 2022, CIBX flipped back to adult contemporary music.

title: CIBX-FM


text:
Biblioteka Imeni Lenina

Biblioteka Imeni Lenina (Библиоте́ка и́мени Ле́нина) is a station on the Sokolnicheskaya Line of the Moscow Metro. The station was opened on 15 May 1935 as a part of the first stage of the Metro. It is situated in the very centre of the city under Mokhovaya Street, and is named for the nearby Russian State Library (named the Lenin Library from 1925 until 1992). Its architects were A. I. Gontskevich and S. Sulin.

To prevent the disruption of traffic, Biblioteka Imeni Lenina was built using underground excavation rather than cut and cover even though the station ceiling is just two metres (6.5 ft) below ground level. Soil conditions and the narrowness of the space in which the station was to be built necessitated a single-vault design, the only one on the first Metro line. The entire excavation was only 19.8 metres (65 ft) wide and 11.7 metres (38 ft) high. The main station vault was built from rubble stone set in concrete and reinforced with an iron framework. This was lined with an "umbrella" of bitumen-coated paper to prevent groundwater from seeping into the station. The station was finished with plaster, yellow ceramic tile, and marble.

The station originally had two entrance vestibules, one at either end. The southern vestibule, located between the old and new buildings of the State Library, is shared with Borovitskaya. The temporary northern vestibule, which served Biblioteka Imeni Lenina and Aleksandrovsky Sad, was removed in the 1940s.

Transfers
From this station it is possible to transfer to Arbatskaya on the Arbatsko-Pokrovskaya Line, Aleksandrovsky Sad on the Filyovskaya Line, and Borovitskaya on the Serpukhovsko-Timiryazevskaya Line.

Though Biblioteka Imeni Lenina and Aleksandrovsky Sad (then called Komintern) were built concurrently, they were not connected by transfer passages until 1938, when Aleksandrovsky Sad became part of the Arbatsko-Pokrovskaya Line. Before this the line from Aleksandrovsky Sad to Kievskaya operated as a branch of the Sokolnicheskaya Line.

title: Biblioteka Imeni Lenina


text:
Sam Pottle

Samuel H. Pottle (May 8, 1934 – July 4, 1978) was an American composer, conductor, and musical director involved in many theatrical and television productions. Born in New Haven, Connecticut, he is perhaps best remembered for his work on Sesame Street and The Muppet Show, having co-written the iconic theme song by using the music from the song Musik, Musik, Musik which is used originally in the movie Hello Janine! with music composed by Peter Kreuder. However, Pottle was also involved with many theatrical productions in the 1960s and 1970s. His principal collaborators were David Axelrod and Tom Whedon, although he also worked with other lyricists. He replaced Joe Raposo as musical director for Sesame Street from season 6 through season 9.

Pottle graduated from Yale in 1955. At Yale he was president of the Yale Dramatic Association, and in 1954 he wrote the music for the Dramat's successful original musical, "Stover at Yale." His father was Frederick Pottle, Sterling Professor of English at Yale.

He died on July 4, 1978, from a heart attack while on holiday in Great Barrington, Massachusetts. His partner, writer Charles Choset, dedicated the 1982 plays Letters to Ben and The Messiah to him. His remains were donated to medical science.

Theatre

 * All Kinds of Giants (off Broadway) (1961) book and lyrics by Tom Whedon
 * Money a Musical Play for Cabaret (1963) with book and lyrics by David Axlerod and Tom Whedon
 * The Mad Show (1966) Broadway theatre - conductor
 * Keep Tightly Closed in a Cool Dry Place (La MaMa Experimental Theatre Club, 1968) - composer
 * Cry for Us All (Broadway, 1970) - musical supervisor
 * The Meehans (1977) - composer

Sesame Street

 * Musical director
 * Composer
 * "What's the Name of That Song?" (with David Axlerod) - 1974
 * "City-Country Song" (with Emily Kingsley) - 1974
 * "Mary Had a Bicycle" (with David Korr) - 1974
 * "I Just Adore Four" (with Joseph A. Bailey) - 1974
 * "Numerical Correspondence Song" (with David Korr and David Axlerod) - 1974
 * "The Subway" (with Grace Hawthorne) - 1974
 * "Swamp Mushy Muddy" (with Norman Stiles and David Axlerod) - 1974
 * "Beep" (with Emily Kingsley) - 1974
 * "Happy / Sad" (with Gene Moss) - 1974
 * "Women Can Be" (with Carol Hall) - 1974
 * "Wonder Child" (with David Axlerod) - 1974
 * "A Very Simple Dance" (with Carol Hall) - 1974
 * "Counting Is Wonderful" (with Emily Kingsley and David Axlerod) - 1975
 * "I Want a Monster to Be My Friend" (with Robert Pierce) - 1975
 * "Frazzle" (with David Axlerod) - 1975
 * "Fur" (with David Axlerod) - 1975
 * "Monster Lullaby" (with David Axlerod) - 1975
 * "Keep Christmas With You (All Through the Year)" (with David Axlerod) - for Merry Christmas from Sesame Street, 1975
 * "I Hate Christmas" (with David Axlerod) - for Merry Christmas from Sesame Street, 1975
 * "Elevator Song" (with Ray Sipherd) - 1976
 * "It's Funny" (with David Korr) - 1976
 * "The Transylvania Polka" (with Tony Geiss) - 1976
 * "Madame Schwartzhead Blending" (with David Axlerod) - 1976
 * "This Frog" (with David Axlerod) - 1976
 * "One Way" (with Christopher Cerf) - 1976
 * "Bus Stop" (with David Axlerod) - 1976
 * "A Song from Kermit" (with David Axlerod) - 1976
 * "I Love a March" (with Carol Hall) - 1976
 * "Ah, For the Joys of the Countryside" (with David Axlerod) - 1976
 * "Proud of Me" (with Carol Hall) - 1976
 * "Just Around the Corner" (with David Axlerod and Ray Sipherd) - 1976
 * "Furry Blue Mommy of Mine" (with David Axlerod) - 1977
 * "Cookie Disco" (with Christopher Cerf) - 1977
 * "Feelin' Good/Feelin' Bad" (with David Axlerod) - 1977
 * "Sound It Out" (with Sara Compton) - 1977
 * "Cry" (with Sara Compton) - 1977
 * "I Got a Song" (with David Axlerod) - 1977
 * "Sing After Me" (with Tony Geiss) - 1977
 * "Beginning, Middle, End" (with David Korr) - 1977
 * "Count Up To Nine" (with David Axlerod) - 1977
 * "This is my J" (with David Axlerod) - 1977
 * "Three Waltzing Chickens" (with David Axlerod) - 1977
 * "Disco D" (with Tony Geiss) - 1978
 * "Pigeons on Parade" (with Tony Geiss) - 1978
 * "David's Street Fever" (with Northern Calloway) - 1979 (posthumous)
 * "Six of One" (with Alan Menken) - 1979 (posthumous)
 * "Without People" (with Alan Menken) - 1981 (posthumous)

The Muppet Show

 * Composer
 * "The Muppet Show Theme" (with Jim Henson) - 1976

Other works

 * Composer
 * "Dear Lord and Father of Mankind" (text by John Greenleaf Whittier) for SATB choir and piano, publ. Trigon Music, 1972
 * "Jabberwocky" (text from Lewis Carroll's poem of the same name) for SATB choir, piano, harpsichord and small instruments, publ. Trigon Music, 1972
 * "We'll Find America" (with David Axlerod) - 1975

title: Sam Pottle


text:
Ball's Falls, Ontario

Ball's Falls also known as Balls Mills, Louthe Mills and Glen Elgin, is a historical ghost town located in what is now a part of Jordan in the Niagara region, Ontario, Canada, which dates back to the early 19th century. It is now preserved as a conservation area operated by the Niagara Peninsula Conservation Authority.

History
The town was established in the early 19th century by John and George Ball, United Empire Loyalists.

The Ball or Bahl family had a long association with the English Crown, and had originally emigrated to the County of Norfolk in England from lands in what is now Germany. In 1690, the family purchased lands in New York's Mohawk Valley, paying one shilling per acre to the Crown. Subsequently, they emigrated and settled there.

During the American Revolution, the Ball family maintained their allegiance to the Crown. In 1782, Jacob moved to what is now Canada with most of his sons and fought with the Loyalist Butler's Rangers and Queen's Rangers militias for the remainder of the Revolutionary War. Jacob, a Captain in the Rangers, brought much of his company with him. The family received a land grant from the Crown in 1783, and the remainder of the family emigrated to Canada in the following year, 1784.

Two of Jacob's sons, John and George, purchased 1200 acres (486 ha) of land in Niagara in 1807 from Thomas Butler, brother of Col. John Butler. Twenty Mile Creek, which runs through the area, has two waterfalls. The Ball brothers built a grist mill, a saw mill at the lower falls and a woollen mill at the upper falls. During the War of 1812, the settlement was heavily utilized by the military, as part of a regiment was stationed there for a time.

The town began flourishing and soon a cooper, blacksmith, tailor, weaver and butcher lived on the land. By 1852 the population of the town, then Glen Elgin, grew to 19 inhabitants. In the late 1850s, the Great Western Railway was established and many moved away from Glen Elgin and were located closer to the railway. In 1962 Manly Ball sold the land to the Niagara Peninsula Conservation Area and the town, now known as Ball's Falls, is a tourist attraction.

Geography
Located in the Niagara region of Ontario, Ball's Falls currently occupies around one sixth of the 1200 acres bought by the Ball brothers. It has a mild climate as a result of its location, which is south of Lake Ontario and north of Lake Erie. There are two waterfalls on Twenty Mile Creek. The upper falls are 35 feet (10.7 m) high, and the lower falls are 90 feet (27.4 m) high. ]The falls can be viewed from above and below. The gorge has also become an area of scientific interest. The lower falls pass over Irondequoit limestone, a firm layer over several weaker sandstone layers. The rock of the upper falls is formed of the same unit, the Lockport Formation, that forms the crest of Niagara Falls.

Conservation
Thousands of plant and animal species grow throughout the conservation area. The list of plant species totals 471 and includes plants such as wild sarsaparilla, green and white trilliums, wild ginger, wild geranium, Virginia bluebells, Canada yew, arrowhead, wild leek, asparagus, wild yam, red mulberry, wild columbine, Canada anemone, chokecherry, Virginia creeper and St. John's wort. Ball's Falls is made up of hardwoods mixed with coniferous trees, lying within the deciduous forest zone. Tree species include Eastern cottonwood, butternut, black walnut, shagbark hickory, white oak, tulip tree and slippery elm. Rare species include sycamore, sassafras and pignut hickory. The species of fish living in Twenty Mile Creek include the largemouth bass, yellow perch, grass pickerel, rock bass, green sunfish, creek chub and pumpkinseed. Among the species of birds found at Ball's Falls are the eastern bluebird, indigo bunting, house sparrows, northern cardinals, mallards, killdeer.

Today
After the purchase of Ball's Falls by the Niagara Peninsula Conservation Authority in 1962, the area became a conservation area. The park features the Ball's Falls Centre for Conservation to help visitors learn of the area's cultural and natural history. The building, designed to have a limited impact of the surrounding environment, features permanent and temporary galleries, exhibits and interactive displays, including the conservation practices of the Niagara Peninsula Conservation Authority, archaeological findings, and the watershed ecosystem of Twenty Mile Creek.

Still standing within the park are the original Ball family home, an operating gristmill, a lime kiln, a restored church, a blacksmith shop, and a carriage shed.

title: Ball's Falls, Ontario


text:
Consultation on Common Texts

The Consultation on Common Texts (CCT) is "an ecumenical consultation of liturgical scholars and denominational representatives from the United States and Canada, who produce liturgical texts for use in common by North American Christian Churches." Its most significant product is the Revised Common Lectionary (RCL).

title: Consultation on Common Texts


text:
Yuri Knorozov

Yuri Valentinovich Knorozov (Ю́рий Валенти́нович Кноро́зов; 19 November 1922 – 31 March 1999) was a Soviet and Russian linguist, epigrapher, and ethnographer. He became the founder of the Soviet school of Mayan studies, and his identification of the existence of syllabic signs proved an essential step forward in the eventual decipherment of the Mayan script, the writing system used by the pre-Columbian Maya civilization of Mesoamerica.

Early life
Knorozov was born in the village of Yuzhny near Kharkov, at that time the capital of the newly formed Ukrainian SSR. His parents were Russian intellectuals, and his paternal grandmother Maria Sakhavyan had been a stage actress of national repute in Armenia.

At school, the young Yuri was a difficult and somewhat eccentric student, who made indifferent progress in a number of subjects and was almost expelled for poor and willful behavior. Aged 5, he sustained a heavy injury to his head that nearly left him blind. However, it became clear that he was academically bright with an inquisitive temperament; he was an accomplished violinist, wrote romantic poetry and could draw with accuracy and attention to detail. His scores were excellent for all subjects, except for Ukrainian language.

In 1940 at the age of 17, Knorozov left Kharkiv for Moscow where he commenced undergraduate studies in the newly created Department of Ethnology at Moscow State University's department of History. He initially specialised in Egyptology.

Military service and the "Berlin Affair"

Knorozov's study plans were soon interrupted by the outbreak of World War II hostilities along the Eastern Front in mid-1941. Due to his poor health, Knorozov was unfit for regular military service in the Soviet Army; however, he and his family spent most of 1941–1943 years on the German-occupied territories, where he could be forced to join the German army support units. Knorozov managed to avoid that by moving from village to village, where he earned his living as a school teacher. In 1943, Knorozov survived an outbreak of typhus, and in September of that year managed to escape with his family to Moscow. There he resumed his Egyptology studies, at the Moscow State University. In 1944, he was unexpectedly recalled for a military service, but his father, who was a colonel in the Soviet Army, arranged for him a job as a telephone operator in an artillery unit stationed near Moscow.

According to a popular legend, Knorozov and his unit supported the push of the Red Army vanguard into Berlin. There, Knorozov is supposed to have by chance retrieved a book which would spark his later interest in and association with deciphering the Maya script. The legend has been much reproduced, particularly following the 1992 publication of Michael D. Coe's Breaking the Maya Code. Supposedly, when stationed in Berlin, Knorozov came across the National Library while it was ablaze. Somehow he managed to retrieve from the fire a book, which remarkably enough turned out to be a rare edition containing reproductions of the three Maya codices which were then known as the Dresden, Madrid, and Paris codices. Knorozov is said to have taken this book back with him to Moscow at the end of the war, where its examination would form the basis for his later pioneering research into the Maya script.

Although many details of Knorozov's life during the war remained unclear, his student Galina Ershova could not find any evidence that he traveled outside of Moscow Oblast in 1943–1945. Knorozov himself, in an interview conducted a year before his death, denied the Berlin legend. As he explained to the Mayanist epigrapher Harri Kettunen:

"Unfortunately it was a misunderstanding: I told about it [finding books in a library in Berlin] to my colleague Michael Coe, but he didn't get it right. There wasn't any fire in the library. And the books that were in the library, were in boxes to be sent somewhere else. The Germans had packed them, and since they didn't have time to move them anywhere, the boxes were taken to Moscow."

Resumption of studies
In the autumn of 1945 after World War II, Knorozov returned to Moscow State University to complete his undergraduate courses at the department of Ethnography. He resumed his research into Egyptology, and also undertook comparative cultural studies in other fields such as Sinology. He displayed a particular interest and aptitude for the study of ancient languages and writing systems, especially hieroglyphs, and he also read medieval Japanese and Arabic literature. According to his roommate, Sevʹyan I. Vainshtein, Knorozov was entirely devoting himself to science. After receiving a scholarship, he would spend it on books, surviving on meager food until the next scholarship.

While still an undergraduate at MSU, Knorozov found work at the N.N. Miklukho-Maklai Institute of Ethnology and Anthropology (or IEA), part of the prestigious Academy of Sciences of the USSR. Knorozov's later research findings would be published by the IEA under its imprint.

As part of his ethnographic curriculum Knorozov spent several months as a member of a field expedition to the Central Asian Soviet republics of the Uzbek and Turkmen SSRs (what had formerly been the Khorezm PSR, and would much later become the independent nations of Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan following the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union). On this expedition his ostensible focus was to study the effects of Russian expansionary activities and modern developments upon nomadic ethnic groups, of what was a far-flung frontier world of the Soviet state.

At this point the focus of his research had not yet been drawn on the Maya script. This would change in 1947, when at the instigation of his professor, Knorozov wrote his dissertation on the "de Landa alphabet", a record produced by the 16th century Spanish Bishop Diego de Landa in which he claimed to have transliterated the Spanish alphabet into corresponding Maya hieroglyphs. De Landa, who during his posting to Yucatán had overseen the destruction of all the codices from the Maya civilization he could find, reproduced his alphabet in a work (Relación de las Cosas de Yucatán) intended to justify his actions once he had been placed on trial when recalled to Spain. The original document had disappeared, and this work was unknown until 1860s when an abridged copy was discovered in the archives of the Spanish Royal Academy by the French scholar, Charles Étienne Brasseur de Bourbourg.

Since de Landa's "alphabet" seemed to be contradictory and unclear (e.g., multiple variations were given for some of the letters, and some of the symbols were not known in the surviving inscriptions), previous attempts to use this as a key for deciphering the Maya writing system had not been successful.

Key research
In 1952, the then 30-year-old Knorozov published a paper which was later to prove to be a seminal work in the field (Drevnyaya pis’mennost’ Tsentral’noy Ameriki, or "Ancient Writing of Central America".) The general thesis of this paper put forward the observation that early scripts such as ancient Egyptian and Cuneiform which were generally or formerly thought to be predominantly logographic or even purely ideographic in nature, in fact contained a significant phonetic component. That is to say, rather than the symbols representing only or mainly whole words or concepts, many symbols in fact represented the sound elements of the language in which they were written, and had alphabetic or syllabic elements as well, which if understood could further their decipherment. By this time, this was largely known and accepted for several of these, such as Egyptian hieroglyphs (the decipherment of which was famously commenced by Jean-François Champollion in 1822 using the tri-lingual Rosetta Stone artefact); however the prevailing view was that Mayan did not have such features. Knorozov's studies in comparative linguistics drew him to the conclusion that the Mayan script should be no different from the others, and that purely logographic or ideographic scripts did not exist.

Knorozov's key insight was to treat the Maya glyphs represented in de Landa's alphabet not as an alphabet, but rather as a syllabary. He was perhaps not the first to propose a syllabic basis for the script, but his arguments and evidence were the most compelling to date. He maintained that when de Landa had commanded of his informant to write the equivalent of the Spanish letter "b" (for example), the Maya scribe actually produced the glyph which corresponded to the syllable, /be/, as spoken by de Landa. Knorozov did not actually put forward many new transcriptions based on his analysis; nevertheless, he maintained that this approach was the key to understanding the script. In effect, the de Landa "alphabet" was to become almost the "Rosetta stone" of Mayan decipherment.

A further critical principle put forward by Knorozov was that of synharmony. According to this, Mayan words or syllables which had the form consonant-vowel-consonant (CVC) were often to be represented by two glyphs, each representing a CV-syllable (i.e., CV-CV). In the reading, the vowel of the second was meant to be ignored, leaving the reading (CVC) as intended. The principle also stated that when choosing the second CV glyph, it would be one with an echo vowel that matched the vowel of the first glyph syllable. Later analysis has proved this to be largely correct.

Critical reactions to his work
Upon the publication of this work from a then hardly known scholar, Knorozov and his thesis came under some severe and at times dismissive criticism. J. Eric S. Thompson, the noted British scholar regarded by most as the leading Mayanist of his day, led the attack. Thompson's views at that time were solidly anti-phonetic, and his own large body of detailed research had already fleshed-out a view that the Maya inscriptions did not record their actual history, and that the glyphs were founded on ideographic principles. His view was the prevailing one in the field, and many other scholars followed suit.

According to Michael Coe, "during Thompson's lifetime, it was a rare Maya scholar who dared to contradict" him on the value of Knorozov's contributions or on most other questions. As a result, decipherment of Maya scripts took much longer than their Egyptian or Hittite counterparts and could only take off after Thompson's demise in 1975.

The situation was further complicated by Knorozov's paper appearing during the height of the Cold War, and many were able to dismiss his paper as being founded on misguided Marxist-Leninist ideology and polemic. Indeed, in keeping with the mandatory practices of the time, Knorozov's paper was prefaced by a foreword written by the journal's editor which contained digressions and propagandist comments extolling the State-sponsored approach by which Knorozov had succeeded where Western scholarship had failed. However, despite claims to the contrary by several of Knorozov's detractors, Knorozov himself never did include such polemic in his writings.

Progress of decipherment
Knorozov further improved his decipherment technique in his 1963 monograph "The Writing of the Maya Indians" and published translations of Mayan manuscripts in his 1975 work "Maya Hieroglyphic Manuscripts".

During the 1960s, other Mayanists and researchers began to expand upon Knorozov's ideas. Their further field-work and examination of the extant inscriptions began to indicate that actual Maya history was recorded in the stelae inscriptions, and not just calendric and astronomical information. The Russian-born but American-resident scholar Tatiana Proskouriakoff was foremost in this work, eventually convincing Thompson and other doubters that historical events were recorded in the script.

Other early supporters of the phonetic approach championed by Knorozov included Michael D. Coe and David Kelley, and whilst initially they were in a clear minority, more and more supporters came to this view as further evidence and research progressed.

Through the rest of the decade and into the next, Proskouriakoff and others continued to develop the theme, and using Knorozov's results and other approaches began to piece together some decipherments of the script. A major breakthrough came during the first round table or Mesa Redonda conference at the Maya site of Palenque in 1973, when using the syllabic approach those present (mostly) deciphered what turned out to be a list of former rulers of that particular Maya city-state.

Subsequent decades saw many further advances, making a significant portion of surviving inscriptions legible. Most accounts of Mayan linguistics credit Knorozov's breakthroughs in deciphering the Mayan language. In retrospect, Prof. Coe writes that "Yuri Knorozov, a man who was far removed from the Western scientific establishment and who, prior to the late 1980s, never saw a Mayan ruin nor touch[ed] a real Mayan inscription, had nevertheless, against all odds, made possible the modern decipherment of Maya hieroglyphic writing."

Later life
Knorozov had presented his work in 1956 at the International Congress of Americanists in Copenhagen, but in the ensuing years he was not able to travel abroad at all. After diplomatic relations between Guatemala and the Soviet Union were restored in 1990, Knorozov was invited by President Vinicio Cerezo to visit Guatemala. President Cerezo awarded Knorozov the Order of the Quetzal, and Knorozov visited several of the major Mayan archaeological sites—including Tikal. The government of Mexico awarded Knorozov the Order of the Aztec Eagle, the highest decoration awarded by the Mexican state to non-citizens, in a ceremony at the Mexican Embassy in Moscow on 30 November 1994. While receiving the award, he said in Spanish Mi corazón siempre es mexicano (My heart always remains with Mexico), or "My heart is forever Mexican."

Knorozov had broad interests in, and contributed to, other investigative fields such as archaeology, semiotics, human migration to the Americas, and the evolution of the mind. However, it is his contributions to the field of Maya studies for which he is best remembered.

In his very last years, Knorozov is also known to have pointed to a place in the United States as the likely location of Chicomoztoc, the ancestral land from which—according to ancient documents and accounts considered mythical by a sizable number of scholars—indigenous peoples now living in Mexico are said to have come.

Knorozov died in Saint Petersburg on 31 March 1999, of pneumonia in the corridors of a city hospital. He was survived by his daughter Ekaterina and granddaughter Anna.

List of publications
What follows is an incomplete listing of Knorozov's papers, conference reports and other publications, divided by subject area and type. Note that several of those listed are re-editions and/or translations of earlier papers.

Knorozov listed his cat Asya as a co-author on his work, but the editors always removed her. He always used the photo with Asya (above) as his author photo, and got annoyed when editors cropped her out.

Maya-related

 * Conference papers
 * Journal articles
 * Books
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * Journal articles
 * Books
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * Books
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * Books
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * Books
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * Books
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * Books
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * Books
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * Books
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)
 * (Knorozov's doctoral dissertation)

Others

 * (on the Rongorongo script, with N.A. Butinov)
 * (Collated results of a research team under Knorozov investigating the Harappan script, with the use of computers)
 * (on the Harappan script of the Indus Valley civilization)
 * See section "Decipherment" at Maya script for photograph of Monument to Yuri Knorozov in Mérida, Yucatán.

title: Yuri Knorozov


text:
Ted Halstead

Ted Halstead (July 25, 1968 – September 2, 2020) was an American author, policy entrepreneur, and public speaker who founded four non-profit think tanks and advocacy organizations: the Climate Leadership Council, Americans for Carbon Dividends, New America, and Redefining Progress. His areas of expertise included climate policy, economic policy, environmental policy, healthcare, and political reform.

Halstead published numerous articles and two books, including The Radical Center: The Future of American Politics (co-authored with Michael Lind). His articles have appeared in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, Fortune, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, National Review, and the Harvard Business Review, among other publications.

He was selected as a Young Global Leader by the World Economic Forum in Switzerland.

Education
Halstead earned his bachelor's degree in 1990 from Dartmouth College, where he graduated magna cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa with a degree in philosophy. He received his MPA in 1998 from Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, where he was a Montgomery Fellow.

Climate Leadership Council
Halstead was the founder, chairman, and CEO of the Climate Leadership Council, which promotes carbon dividends as a cost-effective, politically viable, and equitable way to reduce carbon pollution.

The Climate Leadership Council was soft-launched on May 19, 2016, with the publication of Halstead's white paper, "Unlocking the Climate Puzzle". This report summarizes the economic, geopolitical, and psychological reasons that climate progress is deadlocked, and suggests that a carbon dividends plan could overcome each of these barriers.

The Climate Leadership Council was officially launched on February 8, 2017, with the publication of "The Conservative Case for Carbon Dividends", co-authored by James A. Baker III, Martin Feldstein, Halstead, Gregory Mankiw, Henry M. Paulson Jr., George P. Shultz, Thomas Stephenson, and Rob Walton. This report argues that a new climate strategy based on carbon dividends can strengthen America's economy, reduce regulation, help working-class Americans, shrink government, and promote national security. A profile in Bloomberg suggested the release of this report "may be the biggest day for climate policy since the Paris Agreement was signed in 2015."

Since then, the Climate Leadership Council has recruited a number of "Founding Members" which include:
 * Corporate Founding Members: AECOM, Allianz, AT&T, Ford, GM, Johnson & Johnson, IBM, MetLife, Microsoft, Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo, Santander, Schneider Electric, Unilever
 * Energy Founding Members: BHP, BP, Calpine, ConocoPhillips, Exelon, First Solar, Shell, Total, Vistra Energy
 * NGO Founding Members: Conservation International, World Resources Institute, World Wildlife Fund
 * Individual Founding Members: Ben Bernanke, Steven Chu, Ray Dalio, Martin Feldstein, Ted Halstead, Stephen Hawking, N. Gregory Mankiw, Paul Polman, Klaus Schwab, Thomas Stephenson, Lawrence Summers, Ratan Tata, Rob Walton, Christine Todd Whitman, Janet Yellen

The Climate Leadership Council's Baker-Shultz Carbon Dividends Plan is based on four pillars: (1) a gradually rising carbon fee, (2) carbon dividends for all Americans, (3) regulatory simplification, and (4) border carbon adjustment.

In 2019, the Climate Leadership Council helped organize a large public statement:  The Economists Statement on Carbon Dividends, first published in The Wall Street Journal and signed by over 3,500 U.S. economists, including all four living former Chairs of the Federal Reserve (Janet Yellen, Ben Bernanke, Alan Greenspan, and Paul Volcker), 27 Nobel Laureate economists, and 15 former chairs of the President's Council of Economic Advisors.

Americans for Carbon Dividends
Halstead was founding CEO of Americans For Carbon Dividends, a 501(c)(4) lobbying organization that promoted a national carbon dividends. The national co-chairs of Americans for Carbon Dividends are former Republican Senate majority leader Trent Lott and former Democratic Senator John Breaux. Americans for Carbon Dividends was publicly launched in June 2018 with the publication of a New York Times op-ed by Lott and Breaux, entitled “How to Break the Climate Impasse.”

Americans for Carbon Dividends is funded by leading auto manufacturers, tech companies, energy companies, and trade associations from across the economy, including those in oil and gas, solar, wind, nuclear and geothermal. Americans for Carbon Dividends represents the first time that leading oil and gas companies have put their money behind a meaningful national price on carbon, and the first time that such a broad coalition of U.S. energy interests have co-funded an advocacy campaign to promote a price on carbon.

As of January 2020, corporate funders of Americans for Carbon Dividends include: AWEA, BP, Calpine, ConocoPhillips, EDF Renewables, Exelon, ExxonMobil, First Solar, Ford, GM, IBM, Shell and Vistra Energy.

Leaders of Americans for Carbon Dividends include former Republican member of Congress Ryan Costello as Managing Director, Steve Rice as Managing Director and Greg Bertelsen as Executive Vice President.

Redefining Progress
In 1993, at age 25, Halstead founded Redefining Progress, an environmental economics think tank based in San Francisco, with a $15,000 seed grant from Echoing Green. Halstead served as Executive Director from 1993 to 1997.

In 1995, Redefining Progress released the Genuine Progress Indicator (GPI), an alternative to the GDP that takes social and environmental costs into account. The GPI was launched in an October 1995 cover story in The Atlantic entitled "If The Economy Is Up, Why Is America Down?" that Halstead co-authored with colleagues Clifford Cobb and Jonathan Rowe.

In 1997, Redefining Progress organized the Economists' Statement on Climate Change to promote market-based solutions to climate change. Over 2,600 economists and 19 Nobel Prize winners signed the statement.

Redefining Progress and Halstead also promoted the idea of a revenue-neutral carbon tax, which the government of British Columbia was the first to implement in 2008.

Halstead stepped down as Executive Director of Redefining Progress in 1997, moving into a position on the board. Redefining Progress closed its doors in 2008.

New America
Halstead founded New America (formerly known as New America Foundation) in 1999, at the age of 30, and served as founding President and CEO until 2007. Under his leadership, the organization grew rapidly to a staff of 100 and an annual budget of $10 million.

New America's original mission was to bring new voices and new ideas into the public debate, and to break out of the traditional liberal and conservative categories. James Fallows was the original chairman of New America's board of directors. Eric Schmidt, former Executive Chairman of Google and Alphabet Inc, served as chairman of New America's Board from 2008 to 2016.

Shortly after founding New America, Halstead and Michael Lind co-authored "The Radical Center: The Future of American Politics," which Senator John McCain described as “A political manifesto worthy of the Information Age.” As a result, New America became known in its early years as a "Radical Centrist" think tank.

On December 10, 2001, The Washington Post published a Styles section profile on Halstead entitled "Big Thinker: Ted Halstead's New America Foundation Has It All: Money, Brains and Buzz".

Steve Coll succeeded Halstead as President and CEO of New America in 2007. Anne-Marie Slaughter became New America's third President and CEO in 2013.

TED Talk
On May 17, 2017, Halstead delivered a TED Talk entitled “A Climate Solution Where All Sides Can Win” at the 2017 TED Annual Conference in Vancouver, British Columbia. As of December 2019, this TED Talk had received over 1.5 million views and was translated into 20 languages.

Halstead began his speech by naming three barriers to climate progress: psychological, geopolitical, and partisan. He argued that the conservative carbon dividends plan that he co-wrote with leading Republican statesmen can overcome each of these barriers.

He said, “I'm convinced that the road to climate progress in the United States runs through the Republican party and the business community.” Under the plan, he said, “We would end up with less regulation and far less pollution at the same time, while helping working-class Americans get ahead.”

At the end of the talk, TED Curator Chris Anderson came on stage for a Q&A session with Halstead, and began by saying: "I'm not sure I've seen a conservative get a standing ovation at TED before".

Yachting
In March 2008, shortly after getting married, Halstead and his wife Veronique Bardach set sail and departed westward from France aboard a 50-foot Catana catamaran yacht that they named Verite (a play on the first two letters of their names and of their dog Ria, who accompanied them).

Although Halstead and his wife hoped to complete a circumnavigation by returning to the Mediterranean via the Red Sea, the piracy situation in the Gulf of Aden in 2012 was too dangerous. So they sold their boat in Bali in late 2012 after 4.5 years of non-stop sailing during which they visited five continents.

Death
Halstead died in Spain on September 2, 2020, when he fell 30 meters while hiking.

Books

 * Ted Halstead and Michael Lind (2001). The Radical Center: The Future of American Politics. Doubleday. 264 pages. ISBN 0-385-50045-9
 * Ted Halstead (2004). The Real State of The Union. Basic Books.  287 pages.  ISBN 0-465-05052-2

title: Ted Halstead


text:
Talk:John of Gaunt

Origin of House of York ??
You state that York was descended from Joan Beaufort. That is an outrageous claim, since going to the heart of the royal legitimacy issue, and should be corrected immediately - see Wikipedia entry for "House of York." York's primary claim to royalty is through Gaunt's elder brother, Lionel of Antwerp. If there were a secondary claim, it would be through Edmund of Langley, Gaunt's younger brother. Only thirdly would there be a claim through Joan Beaufort, fourth of the illegitimate children of Gaunt, and only daughter, whose own daughter, Cecily, would become Duchess of York. Ignoring the prior claims, which are well-established, in favor of a junior (ie. three elder siblings), illegitimate and double-female claim seems willfully biased. Sargam01 (talk) 20:13, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

1st or 2nd Duke of Lancaster
John of Gaunt was actually the second Duke of Lancaster. The first Duke of Lancaster was John's father-in-law, Henry of Grosmont. Henry was awarded first the title Earl of Lancaster and in 1351 was bestowed the title Duke of Lancaster by his nephew, Edward III of England. John of Gaunt was the fourth son of Edward III.
 * When Grosmont died, the title became extinct. John of Gaunt was created the 1st Duke of Lancaster (second creation) because of his marriage to Blanche, but he did not inherit the title. -- 128.197.249.86 13:16, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

John of Gaunt married Blanche, Grosmont's daughter. When Grosmont died died in 1362, the title went to John of Gaunt by right of his wife.

John did inherit the title Earl of Lancaster in the right of his wife after Grosmont's death. The title 'Duke' could be bestowed but not inherited. When John died in 1399, the title Duke of Lancaster reverted back to the crown. Can we say that Richard III was the first Duke of Lancaster (third creation)? Can we say that Henry IV who took the crown from Richard III, is also first Duke of Lancaster (fourth creation)? What first Duke of Lancaster creation is Elizabeth II?

 * This is arrant nonsense. Dukedoms were normally granted with remainder to heirs-male, so the first creation went extinct because Henry of Grosmont had no sons, hence no heirs-male. John of Gaunt was, jure uxoris, his heir-general, and the dukedom was created for him a second time. Since he had an heir-male (his son Henry Bolingbroke), it passed to him on Gaunt's death. Upon his coronation, the Dukedom of Lancaster ceased to exist, being merged with the crown. He re-created it for his son (Henry of Monmouth) shortly thereafter, the third creation, but on his accession as Henry V, it again merged with the crown and has not since been re-created. Elizabeth II is not "Duke of Lancaster," a title which does not presently exist; the existence of the administrative Duchy of Lancaster is a matter separate from the title. Choess 04:31, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I would beg to differ with the last point - the Duchy of Lancaster quotes "The title Duke of Lancaster continues to be used, even for a female monarch" and I can confirm that within the Manor of John O'Gaunt (Hungerford) the toast is to "The Queen, Duke of Lancaster".

 * A charming tradition, but hardly dispositive. The Sovereign is similarly toasted as "Duke of Normandy" in the Channel Islands, but the title of Duke of Normandy was disclaimed by treaty in 1259. There is a Duchy of Lancaster, with administration etc. headed by the Crown, but no Duke of Lancaster, toasts notwithstanding. Choess 17:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

 * The First creation of the Dukedom of Lancaster, was not inheritable in the female line, and thus became extinct when Henry of Grosmont died without a son. However, the Earldom could be inherited throuigh the female line, so Gaunt become Earl on his father-in-law's death.  Edward III then decided, for political reasons, to create the Dukedom of Lancaster a second time for Gaunt.  This Second Creation vanished when it become merged into the crown when Gaunt's son ascended the throne.  There was a brief Third Creation in the 15th Century, which also merged into the crown when it's holder ascended the throne.  The modern day use of the title Duke / Duchess of Lancaster by the monarch is actually a courtesy title only.  Indisciplined 22:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

To 61.246.55.221, about removing the reference to family heirlooms from the Harry Potter discussion: I'm the one who edited the House of Gaunt article from which you presumably took this information. Marvolo Gaunt claims to have a Peverell heirloom (along with, of course, the locket from Salazar Slytherin), but the connection to John of Gaunt, if any, must come only from the name. Ryan McDaniel 17:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

It would be a good idea to edit yr. article to reflect Gaunt's Lancastrian inheritance as jure uxoris, as you concede here. Sargam01 (talk) 20:17, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

place of death
Cunnigham, Fr. Kit, with Rosemary Nibbs. St. Etheldreda's, Ely Place: A Pitkin Guide. Norwich: Jarrold Publishing, 2003. This source has John of Gaunt moving to Ely Palace on Ely Place after his Savoy palace was destroyed in 1381 and dying there in 1399. The current wikipedia article claims he died at Leicester Castle. Does anyone have a good source on this?

--Armitage-Smith, who is the first authority on Gaunt, has his death at Leicester castle. His information comes from the book of Thomas Gascoigne. L

Birth date
Can anyone give a reference for the birth date in this article? Britannia gives March 1340 - Britannia Biographies. So does my DVD edition of Encyclopædia Britannica. Rbraunwa 16:46, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

March 1340 as well gives the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. . Ourania 21:42, 5 October 2006 (UTC)OuraniaOurania 21:42, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

As far as I am aware, all biographies of Gaunt (see the further reading in the article -- notably Armitage-Smith, Gaunt's most exhaustive biography) cite March, 1340 for his date of birth. Tmp09 (talk) 16:37, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Castile and Leon
Where can I find a graphic of John's coat of arms, surmounted by this pretension? I'm not talking about a painting of him in armour. IP Address 07:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Good question. The Armorial Gelre, which falls in the right time period, shows him bearing the undifferenced arms of England & France. Fox-Davis, from what source I know not (a seal?), gives his coat as England & France, a label ermine. The arms in that painting may well be a back-formation, if that's what you're implying. Choess 08:31, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm looking for a graphic of these arms, as shown here: http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/plantagenet/gifs/johngaunt1340.jpg IP Address 08:46, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Right. According to, that's a "Renaissance" painting, so John may never have used those arms; by "back-formation," I meant it might be the result of someone applying contemporary rules of heraldry to the period. Choess 08:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

We have no way of knowing? IP Address 09:02, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Not absolutely, I don't think. Fox-Davies unfortunately doesn't say where his information comes from, but it's probably a seal. I imagine a fair number of his seals survive and have perhaps been described somewhere, but I wouldn't know where. Apparently one of his seals is reproduced on "Sandford, Genealogical History of the Kings of England, p. 238," whatever that may be. His Garter plate is unfortunately of no evidentiary value, as it predates his second marriage. Somewhat later, his arms appear as England & France, a label ermine on his nephew Thomas Chaucer's tomb. As to the question of heraldic practice, Warwick the Kingmaker comes to mind as quartering the arms of his wife rather than using an escutcheon of pretence, so I feel safe saying the rule wasn't hard-and-fast at the time. Given all this, I think the evidence weighs against his having incorporated the arms of Castile into his own heraldry, but I can't say that it's proven. Choess 09:29, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Would Lancaster's daughter most certainly quarter as such? IP Address 09:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Again, it's not very clear-cut, because in this period the rules for marshalling arms were still fairly fluid. Bear in mind that Catherine was a heiress of Pedro the Cruel (passing over his bigamy) and of her mother, but not of her father. Under modern rules of marshalling, Catherine would bear Castile & Leon with a canton of England & France, indicating a family through which an inheritance passed but which was not itself inherited. During that era, however, there would be little opportunity, if any, for Catherine to bear arms even in the heraldic sense. Furthermore, such "bypassed" coats were sometimes dropped entirely. Fox-Davies offers a coat of arms of John Talbot, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury, after his second marriage. This marriage was to Margaret Beauchamp, daughter and coheir of Elizabeth Berkeley, only daughter and heiress of Margaret de Lisle and Thomas de Berkeley. Talbot impaled his own coat (quarterly Talbot and Strange) with that of his first wife (quarterly Furnivall and Verdon), and placed on an escutcheon of pretence Tyes and de Lisle, both the inheritance of Margaret de Lisle, for his second wife. Berkeley, to which Elizabeth Berkeley was heir-general, is not represented, probably because the lands were seized and held by the heir-male; nor Beauchamp, where Margaret's brother, the heir-male, was succeeded in the lands by his full sister, wife of the Kingmaker. Anyway, the point of this long digression is that in that era, the marshalling of arms was fluid and somewhat of a territorial character, and I'd consider it unlikely that Catherine, her husband, or their descendants would incorporate John of Gaunt's arms into theirs. Choess 16:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Corrections
I just got this in my inbox from a friend of mine:

"First a correction. John was the younger brother of Edward III, not his son.  Richard II was Edward's grandson as his father, Edward the Black Prince, predeceased Edward III.  So John of Gaunt was his great-uncle.

His claim to the Spanish throne rested upon his marriage to the daughter of Pedro the Cruel, King of Castile (and later also of León). At best it was a shaky claim and no-one took it very seriously. His attempt to gain the Spanish throne was effectively doomed from the start.

When he accepted that Richard II was not a competent ruler, he encouraged his own son, Henry Earl of Bolingbroke, to claim the throne as Henry IV. This was partly dynastic, partly because England needed a stronger ruler than Richard was proving to be. This incidentally provided the background, though not the occasion for the later Wars of the Roses, between the houses of York and Lancaster. In those the opposing sides were led (at least initially) by Henry VI, grandson of Bolingbroke, and Richard, Duke of York, grandson of Richard II.

He died almost simultaneously with his son's accession to the throne. It is very doubtful if he would have agreed with Henry's actions in first imprisoning Richard and later having him murdered.

It is a bit harsh to speak of the "misrule" of Richard II. He came to the throne aged 10. At age 14 he faced down in person the Peasants' Revolt of 1481, even winning over the insurgents when their leader was murdered in front of him and them. On reaching his majority, he was more unfortunate or incompetent than malicious. Rather like Louis XVI of France or Nicholas II of Russia, he would possibly have made a good constitutional monarch, but absolute rule was something he just could not manage, least of all in a time of upset and war (100 Years War against France)."

I am sure this could be verified with sources, but, my knowledge is limited on this subject. What do yall think about this? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Your friend's first assertion is nonsense. Gaunt was indeed the son of Edward III and the younger brother of the Black Prince. Any history of the fifteenth century in England will have a dynastic tree showing the members of the royal family. -- BPMullins | Talk 02:05, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Nor does the claim that John of Gaunt encouraged his son to claim the throne make much sense. The event that triggered Bolingbroke's return was the seizure of the Duchy of Lancaster after John's death, and it was ostensibly to retrieve this inheritance alone that he returned to England. Choess 03:35, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Your friend's claims are so wild, he must have studied a fictional history of England, or he's just joking and you took it seriously.Emerson 07 (talk) 07:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

It seems that your friend is confusing John of Gaunt, who was indeed the son of King Edward III, with John of Eltham, who was Edward III's younger brother. John of Eltham was Earl of Cornwall, and died at the age of twenty in 1336, four years before John of Gaunt was born. AlianoreD 07:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I added a parenthetical to the claim that all the English monarchs from Henry IV are descended from John of Gaunt. The Yorkist monarchs -- Edward IV, Edward V, and Richard III -- descended from Lionel of Antwerp, 1st Duke of Clarence, through his daughter Phillipa. Lionel was John of Gaunt's older brother. Jim Simmons (talk) 14:04, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
 * House of York --> Cecily Neville --> Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland --> John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster. Emerson 07 (talk) 07:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the same claim, I'm not certain that William III is in fact descended from John of Gaunt. Certainly, his wife Mary is, as are all the Stuart monarchs. Can anyone verify?

Okay, I have answered my own question. William III's mother was Mary, Princess Royal and Princess of Orange, eldest daughter of Charles I. That makes William, through his Stuart ancestry, a descendant of John of Gaunt. Jim Simmons (talk) 15:32, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

"Slayed the last wolf in Yorkshire?"
This seems strange, but is mentioned in the 1911 Britannica. "in the central parts about (Leeds stretched a forest region where the last wolf seen in Yorkshire is said to have been slain by John of Gaunt" - Yorkshirian (talk) 17:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Deleting the source of the Beaumont name
On March 2,2009 Tmp09 deleted the sentence explaining why John of Gaunt's children by Katherine Swynford were surnamed "Beaufort." Why? I am considering reinserting this. Jim Simmons (talk) 05:13, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I removed the reference to Katherine Swynford and Gaunt's children being named after Beaufort Castle because Gaunt's title of Beaufort related to lands in Auvergne captured by Henry Grosmont that Gaunt held the title for, but which had been retaken by the French before the children's births -- and there isn't any evidence I know of outside of Anya Seton's Katherine for the Beauforts being named after the French territory. In evidence of Gaunt's Beaufort being in France, see Armitage-Smith. :) Tmp09 (talk) 16:40, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I beg to differ. The source of the Beaufort name is stated quite clearly in an authoritative source, 'The Later Plantagenets: A Survey of English History 1307-1485', by V.H.H. Green, M.A., D.D., Fellow of Lincoln College, Oxford, England. On page 301 he states categorically:

'(The Beauforts).........were the children of John of Gaunt by his mistress Catherine Swynford whom he had married in 1396; her children had been born long before the marriage - incidentally they took their name from the chateaux de Beaufort in Anjou where they were born..........'

Please also note that the current Duke of Beaufort, who is a direct male descendent of this family, is currently the only Duke in any of the five Peerages in the British Isles to carry a title which specifically applies to a location outside the British Isles. This naming of the creation was done deliberately, to emphasie the ancestry of the Beauforts and their unique position with the Crown.

I am therefore re-introducing the main fact of the origins of the Beaufort name to the text of the article. Ds1994 (talk) 17:42, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Is 6'7" Armor in Tower really John of Gaunt's?
According to Alison Weir in her book Katheryn Swynford, the armor was not John of Gaunt's. It's German-made and crafted centuries later. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.253.86.31 (talk) 23:46, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't take Alison Weir to be an authority. Her books are popular history and I know, for a fact, that there are some inaccuracies in her books. 129.67.174.158 (talk) 15:09, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

In this case, Weir is correct. The Royal Armouries (who maintain the Tower's collections) lists the armour as German from c. 1540 and the assertion that the armor is Gaunt's was not made before 1660: http://www.royalarmouries.org/tower-of-london/line-of-kings/line-of-kings-objects/single-object/354 I have corrected the statement in the article. Angengea (talk) 20:26, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Nature of John of Gaunt's Death
It is noted in the article that John of Gaunt died of 'natural causes'. Should there be further reference to contemporary sources that suggest that venereal disease was the cause of death? In particular, one reference refers to 'putrification of the genitals', a sure sign that John of Gaunt had contracted gonorrhoea, a prevalent sexually transmitted disease of the period? Ds1994 (talk) 19:06, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

I would argue that such a reference would be little more than speculation, thus inappropriate for this article, for a number of reasons. First, there is little corroboration of Gascoigne's account of John's symptoms. Second, gonorrhea does not cause "putrification," nor do most form of chlamydia, two of the more common types of STD in this era. (Syphillis was unknown in Europe at this point.) Admittedly, a physician consulted by historian Alison Weir does suggest that a rare form of chlamydia could cause such symptoms. However, and this leads to my third point, the doctor states that John's symptoms were more likely to have been caused by malaria, prostate cancer, diabetes, or environmental toxin, perhaps from the ingestion of substances that in the 14th century were not known to be harmful -- lead or mercury, for example. An essay by Ms. Weir discussing possible causes of death for John (and for Katherine Swynford) is on the Random House webpage for her Swynford biography, Mistress of the Monarchy, here. In addition, there existed any number of infectious diseases that could cause gangrenous symptoms in the extremities, include the genitals. Therefore, I belief we are left with the same conclusion as is Ms. Weir: that John died of natural causes, the precise nature of which are lost to history. Jim Simmons (talk) 05:46, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Reason for Bolinbroke's exile
In the passage on Bolinbroke's exile in the introductory paragraphs of this article, is has been stated that "When John died in 1399, his estates were declared forfeit as King Richard II had exiled John's son and heir, Henry Bolingbroke, in 1398, for 10 years for killing another nobleman." I have deleted the last four words. Which nobleman is this supposed to be? In fact, Bolinbroke was declared guilty of no offence, but the King banished him for ten years 'for the peace and tranquillity of himself, his kingdom and his subjects' (see Sumption Vol. 3, pp. 852-3). Cenedi (talk) 23:00, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Article Title
Shouldn't this article be titled simply, "John of Gaunt"? That seems to be how he's usually referred to in history books. There don't seem to be any other historical figures known as "John of Gaunt", so there's no need for disambiguation; it's clearly the primary topic, since there aren't any others, unless you count the John of Gaunt Stakes, which is hardly likely to be confused with John of Gaunt. And, while I don't think it needs to have his title in the article name, shouldn't it be "first Duke of Lancaster", rather than "1st Duke of Lancaster"? I don't see anything in the Manual of Style about numerals in article titles, but it would certainly be wrong to use "1st" instead of "first" in the body of the article, and the name of the article shouldn't use a different style than the text. P Aculeius (talk) 00:22, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

 * I agree. Move to "John of Gaunt". Srnec (talk) 01:36, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

 * I thought this had been forgotten! Any objections?  And will it be difficult to fix all the double redirects?  P Aculeius (talk) 03:32, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Blanche of Lancaster's death date ?
It's different here than in her own article. StuRat (talk) 15:33, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
 * She died in 1368, though 1369 still appears in some older and unreliable sources: see n8 of her article. Have corrected that and some other inaccuracies, and deleted "bubonic plague" as her cause of death, as this is just speculation. GrindtXX (talk) 18:31, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Coat of Arms...
GrindtXX, my concern is that the Commons file lists [this] as the source of the image - the website gives what is claimed to be a copy of his coat of arms from Gaunt's own original privy seal. If you compare that to the modern one being used here, they are quite different in style - the .svg graphic is much more fanciful and doesn't, for example, place the shield at 45 degrees, as the original medieval version does; the helmet is completely different etc.. I'm going to label the modern reinterpretation accordingly, as it doesn't look much like the medieval original it's claimed to use as a source. Hchc2009 (talk) 10:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I'm quite happy with "modern interpretation", though I'm going to simplify the caption slightly. In fact, the Norfolk artist has also taken some liberties with his source – see very grainy image and description of the seal here – including omitting the two falcon supporters. I suspect his rendition of the helm and crest are actually based on those of the Black Prince at Canterbury. In heraldic terms, however, the .svg is an accurate representation of its immediate and its ultimate sources – apart from the fact that the creator has added the Garter around the shield. However, as Gaunt was a KG, and as the stained glass at his tomb showed his shield surrounded by the Garter in precisely this way, I think this is justifiable. GrindtXX (talk) 11:30, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Yeah, in modern heraldic terms it is an accurate representation - but it is pretty misleading as an image depicting John of Gaunt's actual coat of arms; a shame, as a lot of work clearly went into making it. Hchc2009 (talk) 11:36, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Sorry to wade into this so late, but there are a couple of points worth making, I think. Nothing that requires a change in this case, just a couple of things raised by the discussion above.  Technically the "coat of arms" refers to the arms depicted on the shield, not to the crest or supporters.  Including an individual's crest or supporters in an illustration was a matter of the illustrator's choice; together these and any additional elements make up the heraldic "achievement" rather than the "coat of arms."  So simply omitting the supporters wouldn't make the arms a modern interpretation.  Nor does depicting the shield upright versus tilted at an angle; again, that's a matter totally up to the discretion of the artist, and was so even when John of Gaunt was alive.  It has absolutely no heraldic significance; it's simply a convention of style to make the illustration more interesting.  The use of the garter ribbon is clearly appropriate given its use in the portrait at top, even though that depicts a different coat of arms on the shield; John would have been entitled to use the ribbon on whichever arms were depicted.

 * That said, the phrase "modern interpretation" can still be justified in this case, because the crest (specifically in the helmet and style of the cap of maintenance and lambrequin; the lion itself is close enough to period) is depicted in a distinctly modern style. And the technical distinction between the coat of arms and the coat of arms plus a crest and garter ribbon isn't worth adding to the caption.  But as far as the shield itself goes, or the decision to include the crest and garter ribbon but not supporters, or whether the shield is upright or diagonal, none of those would justify labeling an illustration as a "modern interpretation."  It's the modernized crest that makes the difference.  Now, if the arms of France were changed to France Modern, or the label were couped and dovetailed, those would be distinctly modern traits that would justify "modern interpretation" as applied to the arms themselves.  P Aculeius (talk) 13:55, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Was Gaunt the biological father of the Earl of Somerset?
Although John of Gaunt was held to be John, Earl of Somerset's father, the Complete Peerage and ODNB give Somerset's birth as the same year as Sir Hugh Swynford's death, implying that Somerset could have been a legitimate posthumous Swynford. Neither of his brothers, one of whom was a Cardinal, had any surviving children, so all male line Beauforts were descended from the Earl of Somerset. Richard III's Y-chromosome (4 generations from Edward III) was shown, in http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6631, to be different from today's Dukes of Beaufort (15+ generations). A priori, any one of those links is equally likely to be a false paternity event, of which there is at least one, but Gaunt-Somerset is quite probable. Smlark (talk) 17:53, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

 * I agree with the previous contribution, although I think that it should have been placed under a new subheading, rather than under the 'coat of arms' subheading. It seems to me that the research summarised in http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms6631 casts doubt on the presumption that Gaunt was the biological father of the Earl of Somerset, and I would suggest that this merits a mention in the body of the article. AlanD1956 (talk) 13:12, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

 * Although the nature.com paper does mention the possibility of a false paternity event regarding Gaunt and Somerset, it does also point out that there are 19 generations separating the tested individuals. The false paternity event could have arisen in any one of these 19 generations. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

 * I agree with Celia just above. In particular, I find the current wording problematic, as "DNA research has questioned whether Gaunt was in fact the biological father of the 1st Earl of Somerset.[37])" in my opinion misleadingly points to the DNA evidence being the only or even the key part of the evidence, when all the DNA confirms is that there was a false paternity event or events at some point, which might as well be in any of the many subsequent generations over several centuries. Regarding where any mention about the doubt regarding John Beaufort's parentage should be placed, I would prefer a fuller discussion on it on John Beaufort's own page, which could include both the peerage information and the DNA evidence, and a short "it has been questioned..." would be better here than mentioning the DNA evidence directly. 88.115.236.145 (talk) 18:40, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on John of Gaunt. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110603065240/http://www.katherineswynfordsociety.org.uk/ to http://katherineswynfordsociety.org.uk/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 07:05, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

John Wycliffe's Protector
There should be a section in the article about John of Gaunt's role in patronizing and protecting John Wycliffe. Apart from a brief sentence in the opening section, this is unmentioned, and yet, for me, this is arguably his most important legacy. Whatever his motives in supporting Wycliffe, the latter represented the earliest florescence of the English Reformation, and this relationship was, therefore, more important to the future than his campaigns in France or his relationship with Chaucer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Makercomms (talk • contribs) 10:11, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:John of Gaunt