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Talk:Gjirokastër

Demographics
The article was improved in the domographic section according to the lastest census held in Albania. The previous paragraph it was merged to a new article Demographic history of Gjirokastër County, as it does not concern only Gjirokastër Town or Gjirokaster Municipality, to which this article is subbject. (Bes-ART (talk) 12:15, 10 February 2018 (UTC))
 * The results of 2011 census are widely questioned due to irregularities in the procedure and wide-scale boycott.Alexikoua (talk) 15:35, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * not true. If u have sources for your change, I will be happy to see them, if not, dont change the demographic section (Bes-ART (talk))
 * The current version is fully cited. You are free to check them. However, in case you have specific objections about some data I'm happy to provide explanations.Alexikoua (talk) 15:42, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Fully citet of what? Greek sources that are most historic souces? How could be that more reliable source than official census taken from official government website which is specializing to do that job. Anyway can I ask for a second IMPARTIAL opinion? (Bes-ART (talk) 15:53, 10 February 2018 (UTC)).
 * I am sorry but the international institutions such as the European Parliament, and organizations such as the European Union, to which Albania aspires to join, as well as the Human Rights organizations both in Albania and abroad, have found the 2011 census to be problematic and not fair. That the census was official, does not make it automatically reliable and fair. If you are interested to read more about this, there is already a note about it in the Population article. -- ❤ S ILENT R ESIDENT  ❤ 16:00, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * This is wikipedia not EU Parliament where Greece it is member and Albania not. However, problematic does not mean invalid. Soo I will wait for a 3rd impartial oppinion (not greek if it is possible). (Bes-ART (talk) 16:06, 10 February 2018 (UTC)).
 * Arrogance isn't getting you anywhere. I am impartial to this and like the other editor above told you: you do not have any consensus for the changes you have attempted to pass. It is in your best interests to seek some consensus beforehand with your fellow editors and not look on their ethnicity as this is not how Wikipedia works. Furthermore, Wikipedia's rules are quite clear in that Wikipedia does not take the officialty of information as validity of information. If that was the case here, then many articles could be in need for a severe re-writting to meet the propaganda of the governments. Please refrain from further disruptions on the article, as it is subject to WP:ARBMAC which risks you being sanctioned. I don't think you can achieve that consensus by being arrogant and not explaining why do you want to emphasize on a census that wasn't conducted in line with the international standards. I shall remind you that Albania is one of the European Parliament's member countries. To claim that Albania isn't member, shows ignorance. You can see the signatory states and members of the parliament here: Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe -- ❤ S ILENT R ESIDENT  ❤ 16:27, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry but I dont think im being arrogant. I just want a 3rd opinion about the changes which were made and there is no chances for you two to be impartial on this disscusion. Every city in the world its based of cesuses sources... see London, New York, Boston and so on. A book written by someone can not be more reliable than a official census. Anyway, like I said better wait for the opinion (Bes-ART (talk))
 * The specific section was mainly edited by an Albanian editor and I wouldn't accuse him for pro-Greek rhetoric. I also noticed that so much detail about the wider Gjirokaster County isn't appropriate for this article, not to mention that this is based on disputed data.Alexikoua (talk) 16:59, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The current section also speaks of the Gjirokastër District (which has been abolished as an administrative division since 2000). The administrative division of Albanian is done in two levels: 1) Qark (eng: County) and 2) Bashki (eng: Municipality). It has been mentioned by me in more than one case that some of the statistics are made at the county level because it is the method the Institute of Statistics uses. (Bes-ART (talk))
 * I believe this is a good argument to move district level data to the correspondent article. Off course County level data are not representative for the demographic picture of the city.Alexikoua (talk) 17:18, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The only part that is written in the county level is the part of ethnicity and religion. It is because the Municipality of Gjirokastra can be considered as the capital of the county, soo the data would have more meaningful if they are published here, because in the entire region is more or less the same demographic situation. It is also mentioned that the Municipality of Dropull has an absolute Greek majority, and the same should be done with the Municipality of Finiq in Vlorë County... because this entitles Albanian minority law. Up to a moment of holding a more accurate census (it is said that it will be held after 2 or 3 years) this is the most acceptable census. I also want to point out that every census has criticism for details that have not been done in the right manner, but it can not in any case be considered invalid or manipulated (Bes-ART (talk))

The 2011 census has been heavily criticized by the Council of Europe, among other. I suggest you drop this, you won't get anywhere. Khirurg (talk) 18:01, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * You can write a Note at the end of the article that accompanies the reference you are referring to. On the other hand, no International Tribunal has stated that this census is null and invalid. The European Commission only makes reports, as it does in post-electoral cases, and does not impose on anyone the inevitability of elections, referendums or censuses (as in this case). We are talking about Albania being a free country, despite internal problems... we are not talking about Syria or Iraq that are in civil war (Bes-ART (talk))
 * County data are not representative for city demographics, even if we believe that those data are accurate.Alexikoua (talk) 20:02, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

 * I find it very strange how official data from the Albanian Institute of Statistics is not accepted but greek sources by authors who have taken no part in conducting a population census is accepted???!!! This is quite bizarre. It provides the reader false and biassed information. Kj1595 (talk) 20:54, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * , i know where your coming from. Personally i think the government census ought to be cited. But as some editors expressed concerns i then added sources (like Greek ones) that point out Gjirokaster's historic Muslim Albanian population and current day Albanian majority population. The Orthodox Greek speaking population of the Dropull valley has dropped due to migration in Greece. Whether or not content about Dropull should be in this article should be discussed. Albania split the Greek speaking area from Gjirokaster municipality into a separate territorial administrative unit called Dropull some years ago now. If anything to have data on Dropull here now no longer makes sense and should be transferred to the Dropull article.Resnjari (talk) 22:14, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

 * While on the one hand I agree that the criticism of this census is important to note with regards to ethnic and religious demographics, a lot of the material that is getting deleted [] is actually about stuff that is potentially useful to readers and not to my knowledge controversial, such as age and gender distributions. Surely, a reasonable solution is to have the census data, and note the criticisms of it, right? That way, readers are best informed to come to their own conclusions. Cheers all,--Calthinus (talk) 22:11, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Agree. This is usually the approach that should be taken - The readers should be informed that the information of the 2011 Census but have them know that the data is dubious. Official =/= reliable. Editors should be aware that the numbers given by the official census may not reflect the reality. Wikipedia's role isn't to promote government positions, is to highlight the facts about the census and reflect on the international community's position on the matter. Period.
 * that a data is official, does not make Wikipedia obliged to accept it blindly. State institutions may be subject to political pressure, especially in countries with poor records of separation of powers and institutional independence, as is the case with many former communist countries. Wikipedia has long had a policy of citing the differing views, if there are any. This means both official and non-official data regarding various matters, especially when there are serious reports of misconduct or violations in that Census. You may not believe it, but this is how things work here.-- ❤ S ILENT R ESIDENT  ❤ 22:20, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, cool, so are and  willing to agree to the idea that we keep the census data that Bes-ART added, but include also the criticisms of it with regards to ethnic and religious results? With regard to the charts, this can be done perhaps with a statement at the bottom of it. By the way however Bes-ART, although you wrote that municipality info was "unavailable" you can actually find it here [], in case you ever want it:). Personally I'm a big fan of pop-stat mashke and use it for everything. --Calthinus (talk) 22:32, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) The structure and composition of the Demographics section was agreed upon after painstaking discussion between myself, Alexikoua, and Resnjari and is just fine the way it is. I see absolutely no reason to change it, especially on the whims of a user who has absolutely no understanding of wikipedia policy and rants about "International Tribunals" and other such nonsense. The census has been deliberately falsified and this is well known and sourced. I don't think it should be used at all. Khirurg (talk) 22:30, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Agree. I was the first to propose to put a note that indicates that the Census had criticism. And then it can be reinforced with references from the EU Parliament, Human Rights and so on. (Bes-ART (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2018 (UTC))
 * I am sorry but I am not a party to the dispute, just been highlighting to Bes-ART why 1) it is wrong to make changes without seeking consensus. The article already has a consensus reached between Alexikoua, Resnjari and Khirurg. And 2) Information may not always be valid just because it was published by a state institution. That the state institutions in the Balkans are not fully independent of any political pressure, nor are reliable, is a fact and there has been discussion about it in several talk pages across Wikipedia, from Serbian articles, to Turkish and even Macedonia articles. The most recent example was MANU, a state institution in the Republic of Macedonia, whose the publications are questioned despite it being a state institution. I think Resnjari in fact was present in that discussion where MANU's example was mentioned.
 * I have no problem with mentioning the 2011 Census but with the necessary clarifications that it is dubious and disputed by the international community, but that there needs to be a consensus before such a change is made, if it has to be. -- ❤ S ILENT R ESIDENT  ❤ 22:39, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * of course -- I agree this is a problem not just for Albania and as you know I'm a major critic of the conduct of the 2011 census. But Bes-ART added to the article -- including many non-controversial things, like the age and gender demographics. Why were age and gender demographics removed? I dont' see any consensus for that, and I think they are quite useful for readers. Regarding the charts, personally I don't really care if they're in the article. What do you think of 's proposal above, to insert a note on the charts he made regarding ethnicity and religion? --Calthinus (talk) 22:45, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I am not willing to go into more lenghty debates with Resnjari, Alexikoua and Khirurg again, you saw what happened last time I tried to reason in the previous dispute. If you can, you better ask them, not me. They made the consensus after all, and I wasn't part of it, for my own reasons. Let me repeat myself (although I HATE repeating myself) what I told Bes-ART above: I am impartial to this and [...] you do not have any consensus for the changes you have attempted to pass. It is in your best interests to seek some consensus beforehand with your fellow editors [...]. -- ❤ S ILENT R ESIDENT  ❤ 23:00, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay fair enough (sorry for the pings and making you repeat yourself I guess if you didnt' want to be involved : -- are, and  willing to accept the idea of reinstating gender, age, ethnicity and religion census info, with the data corrected so that is for the city not the county as per ps-mashke, and notes of qualification about the criticisms on the latter two, as  suggested? --Calthinus (talk) 23:04, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually data about the county are not representative for the demographic situation of the city, this becomes even more dubious when the quality of this data is poor. I have serious objections about district and municipality level data too. I believe the district data should be moved to the correspondent article.Alexikoua (talk) 23:30, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Ethnicity and religion definitely not, age and non-controversial stuff ok. Khirurg (talk) 00:03, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * As the Republic of Macedonia's census is raised here, it was accepted as fact by all sides and only fringe nationalist elements have challenged it. Their views don't apply. I have used that census data on multiple articles on English wiki and other wikis. As for data of the city, i would like remind editors in here that Greek sources, note Gjirokaster's majority Albanian population (mainly Muslim). I don't see what in doubt here. The Albanian census ought to be cited for its data relating to Gjirokaster.Resnjari (talk) 00:23, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The Albanian census has been falsified when it comes to ethnicity, language, and religion, and you know it. There is simply no way we are going to use it, here or anywhere. Khirurg (talk) 01:33, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok, so everyone that declared as Albanians must not be Albanians. Heard that line all before. In Greece, ethnic Turks are not allowed to declare as Turks but are lumped into some generic category of Muslims or some Orthodox Macedonian speakers who want to don't get the chance to declare as they so wish. And yet may will stand by the Greek census and that it has some EU stamp of approval. Please. With Gjirokaster, its Albanian majority is noted outside census results, and also its large Muslim population.Resnjari (talk) 01:39, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Aaaaaaand here we go again with the straw men and red herrings about the Greek census. Conversation over. Also a good reminder that deals made with you are worthless, as you seem to reneg on them whenever some newbie appears. Khirurg (talk) 02:37, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * , i refer to the Greek census because the Macedonian census was cited an an example of comparisons etc with the Albanian of problems. You can feel its a strawman issue. Anyway, as for "deals" (meaning in this context ????) etc or newbies what does that have to do with what where discussing here?Resnjari (talk) 02:47, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Here is what we can do in the good faith. In the city Demographic Section (Town + Municipality) we can only use non-contested data, which include total population, age distribution, housing division, and so on. While ethnic division, mother tongue and religious belief can be merget to the Gjirokastër County, accompanied by a Note at the end of the article. On the other hand, the current section may be merged to the former Gjirokastër District, which will also be accompanied by a note stating that the study was made by a Greek author. In this article we can only use non-contested data and we can only mention the fact that Albanians constitute ethnic majority followed by Greek ethnicity with a substantial number, BUT without using numbers or percentages. The compilation of the data will include the town of Gjirokastër in the table and another table for the whole Municipality (including its Administrative Units). This example can be followed with all other contested Counties and Municipalities that are in the same situation as the City in question... We can mention Saranda, Finiq, Himara, Përmet, Dropull, and so rarely. This can be done until the moment of a future census that is not contested by the EU, Human Rights and You. We can also ask for "semi-protected status" for these articles.(Bes-ART (talk) 12:56, 11 February 2018 (UTC))
 * Exactly: non-contested data have no place as you stated. If you have any objection with the current version I suggest to ask Resnjari (who wrote the current version) why he added detailed numbers about the district. Though various Albanian editors expressed that Resnjari has a certain decree of anti-Albanian bias but I personally disagree with that.Alexikoua (talk) 16:10, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * My good friend Resnjari is a hipster and thus everybody disagrees with him and he gets accused of being anti-Albanian by Albanians while Greeks/Serbs somehow at the same time think he is an anti-Greek anti-Serb Alb nationalist, all at the same time (still waiting for anti-Turk accusations tho). But hey, wiki often desperately needs "hipsters" and alternative views.
 * Anyhow, it's good that you guys are getting along now, since everyone seems to agree that we can move the stuff about the district to the district page and keep this one about the city, there's another issue I'd like to bring to your attention-- the current version uses the district demographics. Here are the correct, city demographics as per the census:

Ethnicity (from here ) : Albanians 76.02% Greeks 6.05% Roma 0.45% Vlachs 0.40% "Egyptians" 0.05% (of course all three/four minorities may be underrepresented) Religion (from here ) : Muslim 39.22% Catholic 3.24% Orthodox 15.23% Bektashi 3.08%, rest is mostly undeclared~irreligious and maybe a tiny sliver of Protestants. Criticism of the census: Council of Europe, for more see Religion_in_Albania

 * As for Kallivretakis sadly in my version he didnt' give the exact demographics of the city it seems. --Calthinus (talk) 17:56, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It appears there is a c. 17% of non-declared ethnicity which makes it the second group in the city.Alexikoua (talk) 18:19, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

 * But we know for a fact that the census results were doctored. We don't know how badly they were doctored, so it's impossible to estimate how undercounted the minorities are. We should not publish data that know is false. Khirurg (talk) 19:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

 * I've not yet come across a source saying the census was "doctored". Instead I've just seen a bunch criticizing tons of different flaws it had (non-contact, boycotts, bad conduct by census workers, etc). I'm sure more will come out in the future because of how bizarre the results are, but we don't know it's doctored. Even if inaccurate, the results are notable because they are what are used by governments such as Albania's and the EU's for making decisions. At least we'll have another, hopefully better, one in three years. And I support keeping the Greek claim of 34% for contrast, of course.--Calthinus (talk) 19:29, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

 * Actually we don't know how undercounted Muslims are (seriously this number: 39.22% !). However that's what the census showed. Not all people declared their religion, some might not have a religious identity (more so of those with Muslim heritage due to the bad rap it gets in Albania these days) and others feel its a really private matter. The same goes with ethnicity. There is an assumption for ethnicity in Albania that all those who did not declare a ethnicity in 2011 are somehow by default non-Albanians. They but omit however that during the census process there were strong views aired in society that those Albanians who made any sort of declaration were not "patriotic" as it is a private affair etc. Hence areas like Kurvelesh etc or parts of Diber had large non-declarations, areas that are not known for having minorities. My point is its still a government census, it ought to be in the article. Anyway Gjirokaster has been noted as having an Albanian majority and a large Muslim population. That part is fact, even if some don't like it.Resnjari (talk) 23:06, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

 * @Calthinus: Oh come on. The census contradicts all other sources on the matter. On the question of religion, for example, there is universal agreement on the Muslim/Orthodox/Catholic ration being somewhere around 70/20/10, yet here we have this census that tells us 6% Orthodox. Give me a break. The government threatened with a fine anyone who gave the "Wrong" answer on questions of ethnicity, religion, and language. It was boycotted by the minorities. What kind of a census is that? It's bunk, period. Khirurg (talk) 23:11, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

 * Anyway Gjirokaster has been noted as having an Orthodox majority and a large Greek population. That part is fact, even if some don't like it. Khirurg (talk) 23:12, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid that the data is useless since all parts can claim that the non-declared percentage belongs to their own group. There is also an interesting statement found in a paper by the Kosovar Institute for Policy Research and Development: The Advisory  Committee  on  the  Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities also “considers  that  the  results  of  the census  should  be  viewed  with  the  utmost  caution  and  calls  on  the  authorities  not  to  rely exclusively on the data on nationality collected during the census in determining its policy on the protection  of  national  minorities.”Alexikoua (talk) 23:30, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry to break it to you folks, but in 19th century Gjirokaster there were only a few Greek speaking families (Kokolakkis p.52. "β. Ο διεσπαρμένος ελληνόφωνος πληθυσμός περιλάμβανε... και μικρό αριθμό οικογενειών στα αστικά κέντρα του Αργυροκάστρου και της Αυλώνας."). Greek statistics (from a Greek point of view) that Greece used (compiled by its own army that it used at the Paris Peace conference 1919  to try and claim the area) at least acknowledged the existence of Muslim Albanians, the numbers for Gjirokaster (p.10) are 9.895 Muslim Albanians, 1.695 Greeks (even though those numbers are acknowledged by scholarship to be biased in favour of the Greek view ). Gjirokaster has a Albanian majority and a large Muslim population. Its does not have a Orthodox majority. I still don't know where you got that idea from. If anything there is a discrepancy with Muslim numbers, especially as the Orthodox population has for a large part permanently left from Albania for Greece.Resnjari (talk) 23:40, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * of course the 6% Orthodox (down from 18% as per last measurement) countrywide while we somehow have 56% (Sunni+Halveti) Muslim was a real shock in my opinion. As is "2% Bektashi" (down from 15% or so). The 70-20-10 catchphrase pretends the irreligious somehow don't exist even though they're all over the place. But we don't put our personal opinions in the mainspace and imo shitty-but-still-not-replaced census stats are still notable-- but not necessary. Every side has made claims that they were underrepresented and also many people argue the census vastly undercounted the irreligious (potentially including in Gjirokaster). Anyhow re the census ignoring some of the foruming above, I'm really fine with whatever you guys decide re census ethnoreligious stats, so long as you don't kill each other.--Calthinus (talk) 00:14, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It would be better to avoid wp:OR by stating that "only" the Orthodox vanished from the area due to migration. Large numbers of local Muslims also migrated.Alexikoua (talk) 12:24, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

 * I think we should add the 2011 Census figures while specifying that they are problematic and seriously contested by international organisations and the Greek minority. Since they are the only recent government figures many people who use Wikipedia might have come across them, so by adding them we also give people good opportunity to understand that they they are seriously contested. Vargmali (talk) 15:40, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Misrepresenting Giakoumis
I fail to understand why something that occurred 'on the land opposite Corfu' is also confirmed as part of the history of this town. Giakoumis in his work offers descriptions about the Albanian precense in the town ( According to the sources, there were two migrant groups, the one which travelled via Ohrid and ended in Thessaly while the other, moving through Kelcyre, reached Gjirokaster and the despotate. The purpose of their occupation was to search for new pasture lands. The combination of fertile plains and mountains rich in grasslands in the region of Gjirokaster was ideal for the poor nomadic Albanians who did not hesitate to ravage cities when they lacked provisions.."; p. 182. "Furthermore, I presented evidence that the in the fourteenth century immigrant Albanians taking advantage of the decimation of the local Epirote population by to the Black death also migrated into the regions of Gjirokastër) however the supposed presence opposite Corfu means nothing about Gjirokaster. No wonder the word Gjirokaster is absent in this part of Giakoumis' paper.Alexikoua (talk) 19:44, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

According to the same rationale we should copy paste the entire Epirus history section in here. In general: Epirus history isn't necessary history of Gjirokaster.Alexikoua (talk) 19:49, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

 * That's a fair point. Especially since the mention of the Albanian raiders/settlers in the "land off Corfu" is even less about Gjirokaster and more about Albanians, and specifically the subgroup later known as Chams. The one should not be confused with the other. --👧🏻 SilentResident 👧🏻 (talk ✉ | contribs 📝) 23:36, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

 * I reviewed the source again and you are correct. Thank you for taking the time to explain. --Calthinus (talk) 15:00, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Giakoumis and 18th century

 * I've noticed that there is a huge historical gap almost 1+1/2 century long. Giakoumis provides some details on 18th century Gjirokaster and this can be fixed with a small addition.Alexikoua (talk) 14:01, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Internation relations
Being twinned with an Albanian city can't really be called 'international relations', right? Onoufrios d (talk) 06:29, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I will try to fix and add other international cities if I can find any reliable source  Bes-ART Talk  10:00, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

WP:HISTRS manipulation
This edit [] replaces information by a secondary academic source (the demolition of E.Hoxha statue by the Greek minority) with information provided by a local news portal (+removing anything linked to the Greek minority about this event). Editors should be very careful and follow wp:HISTRS on such issues.Alexikoua (talk) 20:34, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Your source does NOT mention which group demolished the statue of Enver Hoxha. It is NEVER stated that "the statue was demolished by ethnic greeks" RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 23:20, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Per wp:AGF I am presenting here the quote (already in the inline citation):

What exactly can you not understand from this part? Let me help you: 'It' refers to the Greek minority. Don't remove it again.Alexikoua (talk) 04:53, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Kokolakis and other sources

 * I have replaced Pettifer (2001) with Kokolakis (2003) in relation to this statement: which cites Pettifer (2001):  Both the edit and the citation when compared to specialized references about the area turn out to be wrong. Any army - the Greek army included - in the Balkan Wars entered an area to seize it regardless of the local population. Neither Filiates, nor Konispol had a large Greek-speaking population, yet the Greek army attacked them - as did all armies everywhere in the Balkans without taking into account the wishes of the locals. The population of Gjirokastër itself was predominantly Albanian-speaking and only a small number of families were Greek-speaking. This is repeated throughout Kokolakis (2003). I included only a couple of the quotes: --Maleschreiber (talk) 22:45, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

 * I removed Hammond (1976) and replaced this part of the section with Osswald (2011). This statement by Hammond (1976): was cited as  The wikipedia entry distorts Hammond (1976) as he doesn't claim that the tribesmen fought against Esau, but with Esau against Gjon Zenebishi, while Hammond (1976) distorts the original quotation as there is no comment about ethnicity in this passage of the Chronicle of Ioannina:  I relied on the translation by Osswald (2011) who doesn't use any ethnic categories for the people who were part of Esau's army as no such categories exist in the original source. Hence, I replaced Hammond's interpretation with Osswald (2011).--Maleschreiber (talk) 15:36, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Psomas

 * I am not necessarily against including that content, but first it should be clarified what is meant with "Gjirokaster region". Ofc it is not the town itself, since the town was Muslim-majority (per Kokolakis). Psomas' "Gjirokaster region" was Orthodox-majority, so maybe it included Dropull, Pogon etc. Ktrimi991 (talk) 23:25, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Where does Kokolakis state the Muslims were a majority in the city of Gjirokaster? Khirurg (talk) 23:54, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The article using Kokolakis as a source says: During the 19th and early 20th century, Albanian speaking Muslims were the majority population of Gjirokastër, while only a few Greek-speaking families lived there. Citing Kokolakis and Giakoumis,it also says: From the 16th century until the early 19th century Gjirokastër went from being a predominantly Christian city to one with a Muslim majority due to much of the urban population converting to Islam alongside an influx of Muslim converts from the surrounding countryside. Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:05, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I can see that, but that's not what I asked. I asked, where does Kokolakis state that Muslims were a majority in the city in the late 19th/early 20th century? Page number or quote. Khirurg (talk) 00:11, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

 * It's not exactly certain what the discussion is about but Kokolakis does mention that the population of the city of Gjirokastër was Muslim: [Translation:Those areas which, although Albanian-speaking, were directly adjacent to a solid Greek-speaking population (the outskirts of Argyrokastro, Bregoudeti, i.e. the coastal parts of Delvinou province, Fanari, Lakkas, and of course almost all the areas of the Albanian diaspora in southernmost Greece ) were only sporadically affected by the current of Islamization.  (..)] There are many sources which highlight this aspect of demographics.  can you move your discussion with Khirurg to a new section?--Maleschreiber (talk) 00:25, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I added a heading so it is a separate section now. Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:37, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Kokolakis mentions "Muslim communities" and includes Gjirokaster among them, but I don't see "Muslim majority" mentioned anywhere. Of course there was a Muslim community in Gjirokaster at the time, but it does not mean the town was Muslim majority. I don't see that anywhere in Kokolakis. Khirurg (talk) 02:18, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The term "compact population" refers to the Muslim majority.--Maleschreiber (talk) 22:56, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
 * "Compact population" does not mean "majority". Thanks for confirming your source does not support the claim of a Muslim majority. Khirurg (talk) 03:15, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It does - this is what "compact population" refers to. I can list all the urban families of Gjirokastër and it'll become apparent that the vast majority are Muslim.--Maleschreiber (talk) 15:26, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Issue
I failed verification regarding the passage: "Given its large Greek population, the city was claimed and taken by Greece during the First Balkan War of 1912–1913, following the retreat of the Ottomans from the region.", which directly confronts with the passage above it, which I could verify: "During the 19th and early 20th century, Albanian speaking Muslims were the majority population of Gjirokastër, while only a few Greek-speaking families lived there.". Could someone check if the source actually mentions "Given its large Greek population"? AlexBachmann (talk) 20:22, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

 * I found the cited pdf here. The article text closely mirrors the source text, which is that the Greek population was large, but not the majority. The source also confirms that the Greek population was in the minority. The other source doesn't say "only a few" but "small number", which is a pretty squishy distinction. But perhaps the most interesting detail is that the first source notes that population numbers from that time may be inaccurate, so it may be difficult to determine which source is more accurate. Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 20:41, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for taking the time for this. I wanted to ask which source you're referring to when you mentioned "first source"? The first source here or in the article? The first source in the article is the second one here. I know, sounds confusing. AlexBachmann (talk) 20:50, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure! By "first source" I meant the source for the "large greek population" claim, which is here. By "second source" I meant the source for the "few Greek-speaking families" claim, which is here, although I should emphasize that for the second source, I'm relying on the translation given in the citation template. Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 20:55, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, based on what I've read, I would propose to change "Given its large Greek population" into "Given its Greek minority". The first one may even implicate a Greek majority. Again, thanks for your help, I appreciate it. AlexBachmann (talk) 21:06, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm supportive of that change; it conveys the same intent while still conforming to the source. Along those same lines, I suggest that "only a few" in the second claim be changed to something like "a small number", both to better conform with the source and to remove the use of "only" per MOS:EDITORIAL. Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 21:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll agree with that. If anyone has an objection, they may be heard here. AlexBachmann (talk) 21:20, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gjirokastër


text:
Control: The Remixes

Control: The Remixes (issued as More Control in Japan) is the first remix album (and fourth album overall) by American recording artist Janet Jackson. Released on November 6, 1987 in the United Kingdom, Europe and Japan only, it contains remixes of singles from Control, following the success of the album. Several of the remixes, notably "When I Think of You" and "Control", were the versions featured in their respective music videos. Most of the remixes were also available as B-sides to the original versions. In 2019, the album has been reissued on CD, Vinyl and all digital platforms.

2019 reissue
Source:

Notes
 * "Let's Wait Awhile (Remix)" & "The Pleasure Principle (Dub Edit - The Shep Pettibone Mix)" contain earlier fade outs on the 2019 release.

Personnel

 * Melanie Andrews – vocal arrangement
 * Tuta Aquino – editing
 * Mark Collen – compilation
 * Steve Hodge – mixing, mixing engineer
 * Janet Jackson – producer, vocal arrangement, rhythm arrangements
 * Jimmy Jam – composer, producer, vocal arrangement, rhythm arrangements
 * Terry Lewis – composer, producer, vocal arrangement, rhythm arrangements
 * John McClain – executive producer
 * Monte Moir – producer
 * Shep Pettibone – editing, producer
 * Bob Rosa – remixing
 * Steve Wiese – producer

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Control: The Remixes


text:
Talk:Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers

Untitled
Actually, he was shot and fell into a mining shaft .. not off the back of a cliff...
 * Okay, so fix it. Wait, fine, I will.  --Myles Long 22:07, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Some of the aspects of the page seem to give the impression that this film was rated positively by critics, whereas a short trip to Rotten Tomatoes shows it has a 7% ROTTEN RATING.

Editing this out now.

Poor Plot summary
The plot summary on this page is very poorly written. It flips between different tenses and has no actual flow to it, almost like a list of events rather than a summary. Also, it gives details that someone who had not watched or read about the film elsewhere wouldn't understand, such as the use of some names that are not attached to any person previously. Could someone who has better knowledge of this film than myself look into fixing this? Pyrotics (talk) 20:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Anyone going to edit? Whoever wrote this plot summary must have been a little kid or someone who should be in grammar school.

Trivia clean up
I'm going to clean up some of the trivia and put it into better sections. I may need some help. I'm going to start with the masks.--Darkness2light (talk) 22:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

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.

Car accident
"The character of Laurie Strode was revealed to have died in a car accident"

Wait where exactly in the film was there any mention of a car accident? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.183.101 (talk) 00:55, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

 * I just put on the film and they do not mention Laurie where it is written in the plot summary. They state that his only living relative is a niece living in his home town. Will update. --Asr1014 (talk) 06:46, 20 November 2023 (UTC)


text:
Charles Rembar

Charles Rembar (March 12, 1915 – October 24, 2000) was an American attorney best known as a First Amendment rights lawyer.

Early life and career
Rembar was born in Oceanport, New Jersey, and grew up in Long Branch, New Jersey. He graduated from Harvard University with a bachelor's degree in 1935 and received his law degree from Columbia Law School in 1938. He worked for several New Deal agencies after graduating from law school and then served in the United States Army Air Corps during World War II, after which he moved back to the New York area, living in Scarsdale and working in Manhattan.

Rembar founded the law firm of Rembar & Curtis, which represented writers such as Louise Erdrich, Tom Clancy, Herman Wouk, and Norman Mailer, both as lawyers and often as literary agents as well.

First Amendment cases
In 1959, Grove Press published an unexpurgated version of Lady Chatterley's Lover by D. H. Lawrence. The U.S. Post Office confiscated copies sent through the mail. Rembar, working for Grove Press, sued the New York city postmaster and won in New York and then on federal appeal. Subsequently, he defended Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer and John Cleland's Fanny Hill – the latter argued before the U.S. Supreme Court –  which played a major role in changing the nation's approach to obscenity.

Books
In 1968, he published a book documenting the trials called The End of Obscenity: The Trials of Lady Chatterley, Tropic of Cancer and Fanny Hill, which won a George Polk Award in journalism. In 1975, he published a collection of wide-ranging essays titled Perspective. In 1980 he wrote The Law of the Land: The Evolution of Our Legal System, a general history of the evolution of Anglo-American law, written for the non-lawyer and non-historian.

Death
He died in the Bronx, New York City. October 24, 2000.

He was survived by a wife and two sons.

title: Charles Rembar


text: User talk:70.35.157.152

title: User talk:70.35.157.152


text:
User talk:Hex 16

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! Calicocat
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:Hex 16


text:
User:Dndfan

I'm still learning about Wikipedia. As such, please forgive any mishaps I may cause. My single greatest regret is the lack of time I have left for Wikipedia, but I do try to contribute when time allows.

title: User:Dndfan


text: User talk:71.247.115.83

title: User talk:71.247.115.83


text:
Canadian Chess Championship

This is the list of all the winners of the Canadian Chess Championship, often referred to as the Canadian Closed Championship to distinguish it from the annual Canadian Open tournament. The winner of the Canadian Closed advances to the World Cup stage of the FIDE World Chess Championship cycle. Winners on tiebreak or a playoff match are noted with an asterisk beside their names.

 * 1872 tournament not completed
 * 1873 Albert Ensor
 * 1874 William Hicks
 * 1875 George Jackson
 * 1876 Edward Sanderson
 * 1877 Henry Howe
 * 1878 Jacob Ascher
 * 1879 Edwin Pope
 * 1881 Joseph Shaw
 * 1882 Edward Sanderson
 * 1883 Jacob Ascher, Henry Howe
 * 1884 François-Xavier Lambert
 * 1886 Nicholas MacLeod
 * 1887 George Barry *, Nicholas MacLeod
 * 1888 Nicholas MacLeod *, James Narraway, Edwin Pope
 * 1889 Richard Fleming *, James Narraway
 * 1890 Robert Short
 * 1891 A. Thomas Davison
 * 1892 William Boultbee
 * 1893 James Narraway
 * 1894 A. Thomas Davison
 * 1897 James Narraway
 * 1898 James Narraway
 * 1899 Magnus Smith
 * 1904 Magnus Smith
 * 1906 Magnus Smith
 * 1908 Joseph Sawyer
 * 1910 John Morrison
 * 1913 John Morrison *, Charles Blake
 * 1920 Sydney Gale *, John Harvey
 * 1922 John Morrison
 * 1924 John Morrison
 * 1926 John Morrison
 * 1927 Maurice Fox
 * 1929 Maurice Fox
 * 1931 Maurice Fox *, John Morrison, George Eastman
 * 1932 Maurice Fox
 * 1933 Robert Martin
 * 1934 John Belson
 * 1935 Maurice Fox
 * 1936 Boris Blumin
 * 1937 Boris Blumin
 * 1938 Maurice Fox
 * 1940 Maurice Fox
 * 1941 Daniel Yanofsky
 * 1943 Daniel Yanofsky
 * 1945 Daniel Yanofsky, Frank Yerhoff
 * 1946 John Belson
 * 1947 Daniel Yanofsky
 * 1949 Maurice Fox
 * 1951 Povilas Vaitonis
 * 1953 Frank Anderson, Daniel Yanofsky
 * 1955 Frank Anderson
 * 1957 Povilas Vaitonis
 * 1959 Daniel Yanofsky
 * 1961 Lionel Joyner
 * 1963 Daniel Yanofsky
 * 1965 Daniel Yanofsky
 * 1969 Duncan Suttles *, Zvonko Vranesic
 * 1972 Peter Biyiasas
 * 1975 Peter Biyiasas
 * 1978 Jean Hébert
 * 1981 Igor V. Ivanov
 * 1984 Kevin Spraggett
 * 1985 Raymond Stone*, Igor V. Ivanov
 * 1986 Igor V. Ivanov, Kevin Spraggett
 * 1987 Igor V. Ivanov
 * 1989 Kevin Spraggett
 * 1991 Lawrence Day
 * 1992 Alexandre Le Siège
 * 1994 Kevin Spraggett
 * 1995 Ron Livshits *, François Léveillé, Bryon Nickoloff
 * 1996 Kevin Spraggett
 * 1999 Alexandre Le Siège
 * 2001 Alexandre Le Siège *, Kevin Spraggett
 * 2002 Pascal Charbonneau *, Kevin Spraggett
 * 2004 Pascal Charbonneau *, Eric Lawson
 * 2006 Igor Zugic
 * 2007 Nikolay Noritsyn *, Jean Hébert, Ron Livshits, Artiom Samsonkin
 * 2009 Jean Hébert
 * 2011 Bator Sambuev *, Eric Hansen
 * 2012 Bator Sambuev
 * 2015 Tomas Krnan *, Eric Hansen, Leonid Gerzhoy
 * 2017 Bator Sambuev *, Nikolay Noritsyn
 * 2019 Evgeny Bareev
 * 2022 Yuanchen Zhang *, Shawn Rodrigue-Lemieux
 * 2023 Nikolay Noritsyn, Shawn Rodrigue-Lemieux, Bator Sambuev
 * 2024 Shiyam Thavandiran

Canadian Women's Championship
Winners on tiebreak or a playoff match are noted with an asterisk beside their names.
 * 1975 Smilja Vujosevic
 * 1978 Nava Sterenberg
 * 1981 Nava Sterenberg
 * 1984 Nava Sterenberg
 * 1986 Nava Sterenberg
 * 1989 Nava Sterenberg
 * 1991 Nava Starr (née Sterenberg)
 * 1995 Nava Starr (née Sterenberg)
 * 1996 Johanne Charest
 * 2001 Nava Starr (née Sterenberg)
 * 2004 Dinara Khaziyeva
 * 2006 Natalia Khoudgarian *, Dina Kagramanov
 * 2007 Natalia Khoudgarian
 * 2009 Dina Kagramanov
 * 2011 Natalia Khoudgarian
 * 2012 Natalia Khoudgarian
 * 2016 Qiyu Zhou
 * 2018 Maili-Jade Ouellet
 * 2022 Maili-Jade Ouellet
 * 2024 Maili-Jade Ouellet

title: Canadian Chess Championship


text:
Hauptwache (Frankfurt am Main)

The Hauptwache (Main Guardroom) is a central point of Frankfurt am Main and is one of the most famous plazas (An der Hauptwache) in the city. The original name Schillerplatz was superseded in the early 1900s. It lies to the west of Konstablerwache with both squares linked by the Zeil, the central shopping area of the city.

The Hauptwache building
The Baroque building which gave the square its name was built in 1730. It was the headquarters of the city's Stadtwehr militia when Frankfurt was an independent city state (→ Free City of Frankfurt) and also contained a prison. In the 18th century Frankfurt still had city walls and its own army. Until 1864 the place surrounding the building was called Paradeplatz reflecting its military function.

In 1833 during the Frankfurter Wachensturm, the Hauptwache and the Konstablerwache were stormed in a failed effort by a small revolutionary force of native citizens, among others Gustav Koerner, and some people from different locations in Germany. When Prussia annexed the city in 1866 and took over military activities, the Hauptwache lost this role.

The prison remained and the Hauptwache also became a police station. In 1904, the building was used as a café and remains one to this day. It was the scene of the Hauptwache incident when French troops opened fire on students protesting against the French occupation of Frankfurt on 7 April 1920. Heavily burned in World War II bombing, it was reopened in a provisional form with an altered roof in 1954. In 1967, with the building of the U-Bahn tunnel through the city, it was dismantled so it could be moved and rebuilt over the new underground U-Bahn station. The plaza has undergone another major renovation when the S-Bahn station for suburban trains was opened in 1978.

Hauptwache station serves as one of the most important crosspoints of the Frankfurt public transport system. Eight of nine S-Bahn lines serve the station as well as six of nine U-Bahn lines.

The Plaza
The plaza "An der Hauptwache" has been reformed several times. Its current appearance is marked by a sunken terrace leading down to underground pedestrian area with shops and the public transport station. Frankfurters call the sunken area "das Loch" (the Hole).

The plaza contains a number of different architectural styles. It is towered above and dominated by St. Catherine's Church. Apart from the baroque Hauptwache itself, the surrounding buildings are mostly new architecture because of the damage from the war.

Connecting streets

 * Shopping district streets
 * Straßenzug Biebergasse/Fressgass
 * Schillerstraße
 * Steinweg
 * Liebfrauenstraße
 * Zeil
 * Thoroughfare Streets
 * Straßenzug Roßmarkt/Kaiserstraße
 * Große Eschenheimer Straße

title: Hauptwache (Frankfurt am Main)


text: User talk:84.68.162.129

title: User talk:84.68.162.129


text:
The Sealed Knot (reenactment)

The Sealed Knot is a British historical association and charity, with many members from outside the United Kingdom, dedicated to costumed reenactment of battles and events surrounding the English Civil War.

About
The Sealed Knot takes its name from the original Sealed Knot, a secret association aimed at the restoration of the monarchy, although the modern incarnation has none of the political affiliations of its namesake. Apart from reenactment, it is also involved in research into the history of the Civil War, and education (at the school or college level) about the same.

History
The Sealed Knot was founded by Brigadier Peter Young, who was a military historian and a Second World War veteran. The idea of the Sealed Knot re-enactment group started at a dinner party with a small group of friends on 28 February 1968 following the publication of "Edgehill 1642 – the Campaign and the Battle". Within a few months it had 200 members and today has a membership of several thousand, making it the largest re-enactment society in Europe. The group is a registered charity, and has its own coat of arms.

With its large membership and high profile the Sealed Knot is the largest and best known of all the many re-enactment and historical groups and societies in the UK. Its official journal, Orders of the Day, is published every three months and sent to all members. It contains information about forthcoming events. The Sealed Knot comprises a number of regiments split into Parliamentarian, Royalist and Scots armies. The group was responsible for the first commemoration in 1971 of the Battle of Nantwich (which originally took place in 1644) and in 1973 the Sealed Knot staged the first re-enactment of the battle, which has now become an annual event at the end of January and is known as "Holly Holy Day".

Regiments
The Sealed Knot is made up of smaller groups, each run semi-autonomously, and known to their members as "regiments", their names and identities closely linked to regiments that took part in the English Civil War. Each of these regiments falls under one of the armies of the society: the Royalist Army, the Army of Parliament and the Army of Ireland and Scotland. The other sections are those who deal with pyrotechnics, the medical service, the living history group and Friends of the Knot. There are two different types of regiment – "foote" are infantry with pikemen and musketeers, while "horse" are regiments of cavalry. The Thomas Rainsborough Company took part in the opening ceremony for a plaque commemorating the burial of Thomas Rainsborough in Wapping on 12 May 2013.

Parliament The Army of Parliament is divided into four Brigades, each made up of regiments, bands and dragoones. In addition there are three units that report directly to the Lord General: Sir William Waller’s Lifeguard of Horse, Oakey’s Dragoons, and the trayne of Artillery. The Lord General heads the Army. He is assisted by his Staff, who range from the Chief of Staff to humble runners. The following list shows the regiments in each brigade:

Parody
The Sealed Knot is parodied as "The Peeled Nuts" in the Discworld series of novels by Terry Pratchett. It has also been parodied in Chris Morris' On The Hour, where it is referred to as "The Soiled Nut". Half Man Half Biscuit's song "Uffington Wassail" on their 2000 album Trouble over Bridgwater challenges the Society to re-enact "Luton Town – Millwall, nineteen eighty-five", a notorious incident of football hooliganism involving rival supporters.

title: The Sealed Knot (reenactment)


text: Category:English Civil War reenactment

title: Category:English Civil War reenactment


text: User talk:81.220.78.29

title: User talk:81.220.78.29


text:
User:Merto

More on it:User:Merto.

title: User:Merto


text:
Talk:List of highest-income counties in the United States

Fairfax
Why is one city, Fairfax, listed among the counties? Fairfax County is already listed here. Messes up count for other counties. It should be dropped.Student7 (talk) 12:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

City of Fairfax is a separate entity from Fairfax County. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.151.13.7 (talk) 16:10, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree that Fairfax statistics won't show up in any county. But why, then, don't you just entitle the article "Highest Income counties in the United States, including places that aren't in counties, like DC." Really off-WP:TOPIC IMO. Okay to include Fairfax in list of cities with high income. Clearly inappropriate here. Rename article if you want to include cities. Student7 (talk) 17:50, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * In Virginia Independent Cities are not a part of and are separate from Counties, the US Census Bureau and other agencies treat them as County Equivalents. Fairfax County and the City of Fairfax are two completely separate political entities. While the City of Fairfax is completely surrounded by Fairfax County it is not part of it and it's data should not be included within that of Fairfax County. See Virginia Constitution, Section VII 161.69.116.10 (talk) 20:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Please fix the numbers in this page, for example Nassau County, New York is given a value of 90,000 median income, but the census data says 72,000 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.126.96.225 (talk) 07:19, 20 December 2010 (UTC) Sorry, forgot to add... The same goes for Fairfax county, the census data shows a very different Household income (~40% off) and population size (~15% off) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.126.96.225 (talk) 07:23, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

San Mateo
The reference linked for the San Mateo County entry for 2012 does not support the value listed ($168,480). On the contrary, it lists Arlington County as "...the richest county in America" with a "median family income in 2012 [of] $137,216." The value for San Mateo county in 2011 is listed as $81,657, which would mean it more than doubled in one year. This is highly implausible. Whoever is responsible for compiling the 2012 table should review for accuracy. Drphysics (talk) 15:32, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

It should also be noted that the reference for San Mateo is for the "average", not the "median" income and the reference is inconsistent with the reference cited for all the other counties. San Mateo should be re-evaluated based on the actual 2012 America Community Survey results to be consistent with the methods used for all other counties. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sharpie2012 (talk • contribs) 19:16, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Oconee County, GA
Why does Oconee County, Georgia not appear anywhere on any of these lists? It's median income both household and per capita puts it pretty firmly on all of them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.21.20.76 (talk) 19:14, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

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Double Howard county.
Howard county Maryland is listed twice in the per Capita list. I believe the higher number is correct. 2600:1003:B028:60:A132:A855:681D:72C8 (talk) 22:56, 20 April 2022 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Buffalo Grove, Illinois

Untitled
Home values and income are obviously inaccurate. Somebody please correct them. Census data is 5 years old so I doubt it'll be meaninful Papushin 04:14, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

this information has been verified through http://www.vbg.org/enTouchCMS/app/viewDocument?docID=70&catgId=15

Any citation for enrollment loss at St. Mary's? and is it the result of school policy or the fact that a lot of Russian Jews have moved into the area? KriZe 03:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

How about discussion of the OLD part (around Raupp Blvd) of Buffalo Grove versus the NEW part? Regarding the Jewish population, there is also a difference between the demographics of the OLD part versus the NEW.

Indeed, I would be interested to see information comparing the old (Cook County) and new (Lake County) parts of Buffalo Grove. I'd contribute myself, but I have no idea where to find such information. (Apologies in advance if I've added my contribution to this discussion incorrectly.) SecretMethod70

Income problem?
There seem to be two totally different income statistics. The chart states 80,000, while the demographic section says 125,000. Which is more accurate? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.22.12.199 (talk) 00:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

Ugh
That's a hell of an edit summary, excuse me for just going off the page, all it says is its in suburban Cook and Lake County, which means spit. Sorry if I am not from Chicago but two towns with the same name in the same state needed to be disambiguated. So save your holier-than-thou edit summaries for a forum that cares. IvoShandor 08:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I think it simply makes sense. Maybe I should just move this article, as it doesn't really receive much traffic anyways. --Starstriker7(Dime algoor see my works) 22:40, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I know this is an old comment but just to clear things up in case someone else gets confused in the future. Buffalo Grove isn't "two towns with the same name in the same state".  Buffalo Grove is one town that straddles the county line between Lake and Cook counties so has land in both. Wolfhound668 (talk) 14:50, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

population
Let me get this straight..a village with a population of 43000 people? Doesn't it make it a town? Norum 00:42, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know the number where a village becomes a town but on the Buffalo Grove website (vbg.org, for Village of Buffalo Grove actually) everything seems to be village. "Village Board", "Village Manager", "Village Hall", even a link to "Our Village".  Maybe it should be a town and the local government just hasn't caught up. Wolfhound668 (talk) 16:45, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * At least in Illinois, "village" is strictly a somewhat arbitrary legal term for an administrative division where an incorporated community has trustees elected at large.

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Notable people
Please do not add random people who were not born in Buffalo Grove or only briefly lived there. Removed a few. Andru nl (talk) 18:55, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Climate
The precipitation data in the climate table seems much lower than that of towns in the surrounding area. As someone from the area I doubt there is a microclimate here. 2600:1700:8412:22A0:292D:8224:E746:F722 (talk) 23:33, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Buffalo Grove, Illinois


text:
User talk:MFer2k5

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --Ragib 21:47, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:MFer2k5


text:
Barney Rosset

Barnet Lee "Barney" Rosset, Jr. (May 28, 1922 – February 21, 2012) was a pioneering American book and magazine publisher. An avant-garde taste maker, he founded Grove Press in 1951 and Evergreen Review in 1957, both of which gave him platforms for curating world-class and, in several cases, Nobel prize-winning work by authors including Samuel Beckett (1969), Pablo Neruda (1971), Octavio Paz (1990), Kenzaburō Ōe (1994) and Harold Pinter (2005).

A voracious reader and a resourceful editor, Rosset was the first to publish Beat poets Jack Kerouac, William S. Burroughs and Allen Ginsberg, a who's who of playwrights including Tom Stoppard and Harold Pinter, political biographies like Alex Haley's The Autobiography of Malcolm X, erotic literature like the Story of O, groundbreaking gay fiction by Jean Genet, and banned classics such as Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer and D. H. Lawrence's Lady Chatterley's Lover.

Rosset's insistence on publishing "banned" books permanently redefined American obscenity law. "To do Lady Chatterley's Lover before Tropic of Cancer would be more acceptable because D.H. Lawrence was a famous writer and revered at many levels," Rosset said in 2009, explaining his tactical reasoning after the fact. "Lady Chatterley would be more feasible to make a battle plan for, and we did exactly that," starting with an uncensored version of Lady Chatterley's Lover, thirty years after its initial U.K. publication. After his first victory, Rosset moved on to the second, waging another legal battle to publish Miller's Tropic of Cancer. In 1964, the Supreme Court affirmed Rosset's right to publish Miller's book. France later inducted him as a Commandeur dans l'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres to honor his contributions to American and world literature; the Norman Mailer Prize was given to him for his work as a "Distinguished Publisher" and the National Coalition Against Censorship recognized him for his contributions to free speech.

Cultural impact
As a publisher, Rosset's taste was sophisticated, multicultural, experimental and literary. As a brand, Grove focused on avant-garde literature, radical politics and erotica. In an interview with Tin House publisher Win McCormack, Rosset described what spurred him to publish Beckett:
 * [O]ne day I read in The New York Times about a play called Waiting for Godot that was going on in Paris. It was a small clip, but it made me very interested. I got hold of it and read it in the French edition. It had something to say to me. Oddly enough, it had a sense of desolation, like Miller, though in its language, its lack of verbiage, it was the opposite of Miller. Still, the sense of a very contemporary lost soul was compelling. I got Wallace Fowlie to read it.... He read the play and told me that he thought — and this before anybody had really heard about it much — that it would be one of the most important works of the 20th Century.

Legal impact
In 1959, Rosset published D.H. Lawrence's 1928 novel Lady Chatterley's Lover, which the United States had banned in 1929, on the grounds of obscenity. After the book was released, the U.S. Post Office began confiscating copies sent through the mail, which led Grove Press to take legal action — and win. Emboldened, Rosset subsequently decided to publish Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer, which was first published in France in 1934, and immediately banned by the U.S. Customs Service from being imported into the U.S., again, on grounds of obscenity. So in 1961, Rosset published it. "[L]awsuits were immediately filed against him and booksellers that chose to carry the controversial novel. The trial eventually went all the way to the Supreme Court, which ultimately ruled in Rosset's favor."

In an interview with the Brooklyn Rail, Rosset described the courtroom experience:
 * [H]e [Miller] wouldn't go to the court.... He'd been summonsed so he was breaking the law by not going. So we went into court, and the District Attorney questioned me and said, "You see that we have a jury here of men and women with children who go to school right near where that book is on sale, near the subway stop. What'd you think they feel to have their children reading this book?" So I took out the book and started reading and the jury started laughing and they thought it was wonderful. I said to them, "If your children got this book and read the whole book you ought to congratulate them." And they loved it, and they refused to convict me of anything.

Evergreen Review
Launched in 1957, Evergreen Review also pushed the limits of censorship, impacting the culture at large by inspiring younger Americans to embrace the counterculture. Grove Press published Beat Generation writers, including William Burroughs, Allen Ginsberg, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, John Rechy, Hubert Selby, Jr. and Jack Kerouac. Rosset also purchased the American distribution rights to the Swedish film I Am Curious (Yellow), which had also briefly been banned in Boston, and later found not to be obscene in a Second Circuit Ruling. The Review shuttered in 1984, only to relaunch in 1998 online and under Rosset's management."One thing I like about this new form of communication [online] is that you can have an article about, say, the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago like any magazine, but you can also listen to the kind of music they were playing at the time. We can go into new realms of discourse.... They say there's still not enough memory for things like sound and visuals on the Internet, and it costs too much to put a magazine on-line. But that's all going to change fast. To get some idea of how fast, all you have to do is go to Bangkok and see all the poor people selling melons on the streets; and they all have cellular phones."In 2013, soon after Rosset's death, the Evergreen Review ceased publication, only to be revived in 2017 under the management of John Oakes who got his start in publishing in 1987 as an assistant editor at Barney Rosset's Grove Press. The magazine, which also has a publishing arm called Foxrock Books "builds on Rosset’s legacy of searching out the stories that aren't being told or aren’t being heard: stories that challenge our sensibilities and expand our understanding of the way people actually live in the world, and the way their truths can be expressed."

Background
Born and raised in Chicago to a well-to-do Jewish father, also named Barney, who owned a bank, and an Irish Catholic mother, Mary (née Tansey), Rosset attended the progressive Francis Parker School, where he was best friends with Haskell Wexler who went on to become a renowned cinematographer. According to Rosset, Robert Morss Lovett, the grandfather of Rosset's high school sweetheart, and professor of English at the University of Chicago, was also a great influence on him.

Rosset attended Swarthmore College for one year before enlisting in the army in 1942. It was there that he first discovered the work of Henry Miller. During World War II, Rosset served in the Army Signal Corps as an officer in a photographic company stationed in Kunming, China. In 2002, more than 60 years later, Rosset collected some of his wartime photography for a NYC gallery exhibit that included graphic photos of wounded and dead Chiang Kai-shek soldiers.

In 1949, Rosset married Abstract Expressionist painter Joan Mitchell, and settled in Greenwich Village. Although Rosset's initial ambition was to be a filmmaker like his childhood friend Haskell Wexler, a documentary called Strange Victory about racism in a post World War II America that he produced, failed. After divorcing Mitchell, Rosset took courses at the New School for Social Research, and worked for Monthly Review Press magazine. A friend of Mitchell's told Rosset about Grove Press and that the original founders wanted to sell. Rosset purchased it in 1951 for three thousand dollars, and served as publisher until 1985 when he sold the press to Ann and George Weidenfeld.

Rosset was married five times. His second wife Loly Eckert was a sales manager at Grove Press, and together they had a son named Peter. Rosset went on to have three more children: Son Beckett Rosset (named for Samuel Beckett) and two daughters—Tansey and Chantal. Rosset died after a double heart valve replacement in 2012, and his fifth wife, Astrid Meyers, whom he married in 2007, and also a former managing editor of Evergreen Review, survives him.

Awards

 * In 1999, Rosset was awarded the French title Commandeur dans l'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres.
 * On October 21, 2008, Rosset was honored by the National Coalition Against Censorship for his work defending free expression.
 * On November 19, 2008, Rosset received the lifetime achievement Literarian Award from the National Book Foundation in honor of his contributions to American publishing.
 * In 2012, he was awarded the Norman Mailer Prize for "Distinguished Publisher."

Filmography

 * "Obscene" is a documentary feature about Rosset by Neil Ortenberg and Daniel O'Connor that was released September 26, 2008. The film was a selection of the 2007 Toronto International Film Festival. Features commentary by Amiri Baraka, Lenny Bruce, William S. Burroughs, Jim Carroll, Elsa Dorfman, Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Allen Ginsberg, Al Goldstein, Erica Jong, Ray Manzarek, Michael McClure, Henry Miller, John Rechy, Ed Sanders, Floyd Salas, John Sayles, Gore Vidal, John Waters and Malcolm X.
 *  Barney's Wall: A Portrait of a Game Changer  is a documentary produced by FoxHog Productions and Rosset's widow Astrid Myers. It tells a story about a painting that Rosset was painting on the walls of their apartment, which his wife had to move after Rosset's death when she had to relocate.

Archives

 * Finding aid to Barney Rosset papers at Columbia University. Rare Book & Manuscript Library.

Articles, obituaries and interviews

 * Menand, Louis. "Banned Books and Blockbusters", The New Yorker, December 12, 2016.
 * Thomas, Louisa. "The Most Dangerous Man in Publishing", Newsweek, December 15, 2008.
 * Article about Barney Rosset in International Herald Tribune, September 2008.
 * Oakes, John. "Remembering Barney Rosset", in Daily PEN American, February 27, 2012.
 * Martin, Douglas. "Barney Rosset Dies at 89; Defied Censors, Making Racy a Literary Staple", New York Times, February 22, 2012.
 * Barney Rosset with Williams Cole, "In Conversation: A Life in Underground Letters", The Brooklyn Rail, March 2, 2012.
 * Barney Rosset with Williams Cole, "In Conversation: A Life in Underground Letters", The Brooklyn Rail, March 2, 2012.

Banned classics

 * The American Library Association's List of Top 100 Novels of the 20th Century that have been banned or challenged.

Grove Press and Evergreen Review

 * Evergreen Review, the online home of Evergreen.
 * The current incarnation of Grove Press is Grove Atlantic

title: Barney Rosset


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User talk:Denis C.

Violent Femmes
Nice work on Violent Femmes albums :)

In case you're interested:
You were listed on the Wikipedians/Quebec page as living in or being associated with Quebec. As part of the User categorisation project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit Category:Wikipedians in Quebec for instructions.--Rmky87 00:55, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Moral censorship article
Hi there! I noticed you removed the text from the Moral censorship article, in future if you ever come across an article such as that (with no or very little context), probably a good idea to nominate it for speady delete, because removing the text from an article doesn't delete the article. Thanks :-) Akamad 04:18, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikimedia Canada
Hi there! I'd like to invite you to explore Wikimedia Canada, and create a list of people interested in forming a local chapter for our nation. A local chapter will help promote and improve the organization, within our great nation. We'd also like to encourage everyone to suggest projects for our national chapter to participate in. Hope to see you there! -- user:zanimum

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Denis C.! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created  is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the article:

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 23:21, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Victor DeLorenzo -

You're invited!
Hello, Denis C.,

You are invited meet with your fellow Wikipedians by attending the Montréal meetup scheduled on Sunday, June 27, 2010; between 1500 - 1700 to be held at the Comité Social Centre Sud (CSCS), located at 1710 Beaudry, in Montréal. You can sign up at the meetup page.

The meetup is happening in concurrence with RoCoCo 2010, a free, bilingual, weekend unconference including many people involved with Wikis both within the Wikipedia/Wikimedia Community and abroad. You do not need to attend the conference to sign up for the Wikimeetup, but you are certainly welcome! Bastique ☎ call me!

(PS: Please share this with those you know who might not be on the delivery list, i.e. Users in Montreal/Quebec) Delivered by SoxBot (talk) 00:43, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:07, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:32, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Denis C.


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Andromachus (son of Achaeus)

Andromachus (Ἀνδρόμαχος, lived 3rd century BC) was a Seleucid Greek nobleman. Andromachus was the son of Achaeus who was a wealthy nobleman who owned estates in Anatolia. His family was influential in Anatolia and had strong royal connections. Andromachus had three siblings; one brother: Alexander and three sisters: Antiochis, Laodice I and Laodice II. Andromachus was the father of Achaeus and his sister Laodice II was married to the Seleucid King Seleucus II Callinicus. As a result of this marriage, the future Seleucid kings, Seleucus III Ceraunus and Antiochus III the Great, were his nephews.

During the course of a war between the Seleucids and the Ptolemies, the Egyptian king Ptolemy III Euergetes took Andromachus prisoner; and when Ptolemy III died in 221 BC, Andromachus was still a prisoner in Egypt. Since Achaeus was anxious to secure his father's release, Ptolemy IV of Egypt’s chief advisor, Sosibius, regarded the captive nobleman as a very valuable piece to play in the political game. He had, perhaps, before the revolt of Achaeus, tried to strike a bargain with him—the release of Andromachus as the price for Achaeus deserting the Seleucid king. When Achaeus did revolt, pushed by other circumstances, and without having made any compact with Egypt, there was even less reason to let Andromachus go. Sosibius was very unwilling to part with such a valuable individual; but around 220 BC the Rhodians intervened on behalf of Achaeus, changing the situation radically.

The Rhodians' decision did not spring from altruism. It was a move with which they hoped to defeat the city-state of Byzantium, with which they were at war. Byzantium hoped to gain Achaeus' support against Rhodes and its allies. By obtaining Andromachus' release the Rhodians planned to foil the Byzantine plan and obtain Achaeus' support. They therefore sent an embassy to Ptolemy IV asking him to deliver Andromachus to them. While Ptolemy at first refused to free Andromachus, with further consideration, being anxious to please the Rhodians, the king yielded to their request and handed over Andromachus to them. This was done, and father and son were reunited. After these events, Andromachus disappears from history.

title: Andromachus (son of Achaeus)


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Ägerisee

Ägerisee or Lake Aegeri is a glacial lake in the Canton of Zug, Switzerland. The two municipalities along its shore are Oberägeri and Unterägeri. The main tributary is the Hüribach; the Lorze river drains the Ägerisee. Since 1992 the lake has been used as a water reservoir.

The Battle of Morgarten took place in 1315 on the shores of the Ägerisee.

title: Ägerisee


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Nanjing Automobile

Nanjing Automobile is a state-owned enterprise with a history that dates from 1947, making it the oldest of the Chinese automobile manufacturers although the comparatively younger FAW Automotive was the first to make cars.

The group's products have included cars, trucks, and buses.

Nanjing Auto merged with the much larger SAIC in 2007 becoming a subsidiary of that company.

Civil-war era
The history of the corporation dates to 1947 during the Chinese Civil War. In the July 1949, a repair service center attached to the East China Field Army (which later became the Third Field Army) took control of an automobile workshop in Nanjing, Jiangsu province, former capital of the Republic of China, after the People's Liberation Army had conquered the city.

Early light-truck production (Yue Jin brand)

In the 1950s, oversight of the small automobile workshop that would become Nanjing Automobile was transferred to China's First Ministry of Industrial Machinery. It began making China's first domestically produced light-duty trucks in 1958, the 2½ ton NJ-130, based on the GAZ-51 from the Soviet Union. The Ministry branded the truck Guerin (跃进牌汽车 - literally meaning "Leap Forward") and approved the establishment of Nanjing Automobile Works that same year. Truck production continued until July 1987 at which point 161,988 units of various models including the NJ-130, NJ-230, NJ-135, and NJ-134 had been built.

Guerin later became Yue Jin while the Mandarin name remains 跃进.

Technology transfers
Nanjing Auto has repeatedly used technology transfers to make the company more competitive.

Mid-1980s
In the mid-1980s, Nanjing Auto purchased designs and moulds from Isuzu and obtained technology from the Italian Iveco, the commercial vehicle unit of Fiat, participating in a spate of technology transfer deals circa 1980 that saw Japanese designs and machinery sold to Chinese buyers.

The Iveco purchases allowed Nanjing Auto to produce a version of the Iveco Daily.

2000s
In 2000 the design, and possibly the tooling, for SEAT's first generation Ibiza was purchased and the car sold in China as the Nanjing Yuejin Soyat.

Acquisition of MG Rover Group assets
Nanjing Auto acquired some assets of MG Rover Group and Powertrain Ltd in 2005 after the group had entered administration. According to the purchase agreement, Nanjing Auto bought MG, Austin, and some other dormant British car brands, and the production technology and equipment for the MG ZT and MG TF models. Some equipment and blueprints were repossessed by Honda, as its intellectual property was used in some of MG Rover vehicles, in particular, the Rover 45 and MG ZS, which were based on the Honda Domani.

MG production plan
Nanjing Auto decided to establish production bases for MGs at Longbridge and Nanjing. A plan to open another factory in Ardmore, Oklahoma, USA was not realized. The production of engines, transmissions and medium and low end vehicle products would be transferred to China, where a supply chain would also be set up. A production facility would be retained in the UK, with the original Longbridge site integrated to resume the production of MG TF sport cars. Meanwhile, by making use of the R&D capability and personnel in the UK as well as that of China, the Euro IV engines and a new generation of vehicles would be developed and then produced in both China and the UK.

In 2007, Nanjing Auto planned to build 13,000 cars based on the Rover 75 / MG ZT sedan, renamed MG 7. These cars would be mostly sedans (saloons), plus some MG 7T estate cars. It also planned 3,000 MG TF convertible sports cars.

Pukou plant

The MG Factory of Nanjing Auto is located in the High-level New Technology Economic Development Zone in Pukou (a new district of Nanjing). The capacity of the Nanjing-MG Factory will reach 200,000 autos, 250,000 engines and 100,000 gear-boxes.

The initial MG range consisted of just the MG 7 and the MG TF. Nanjing Auto also started production of the Rover Streetwise-based MG 3SW in 2008.

Longbridge plant
The plant at Longbridge was for many years one of the most important car making factories in Europe as well as the largest British-owned car manufacturing plant, making Austin cars for most of the 20th century. After the Abingdon plant closed in 1980, Longbridge was also from 1982 the home of MG and then of the Rover marque which gradually replaced Austin in the late 1980s.

The site is owned by St. Modwen Properties which acquired 412 acre in two deals in 2003 and 2004 for £57.5 million and leased it back to MG Rover Group. A 33-year deal was signed in February 2006 between Nanjing Auto and St. Modwen Properties covering the lease of 105 acres (a quarter of the total area of the Longbridge plant) but including the two main car assembly plants, the paint shop and administrative offices at a rent of around £1.8 million a year. £10 million was estimated to be needed to reopen the factory.

With the merger of Nanjing Auto and SAIC, ownership of the Longbridge plant became a SAIC controlled facility.

Chang Da
Chang Da (畅达) is an NEV sub-brand of Nanjing Automobile and SAIC. Established in 2009, Chang Da has been developing electric light logistics vans for "the last mile" delivery. The first product, Chang Da H9 is based on the structure of FAW Jiabao V80 (佳宝V80) and took three years to develop before being launched in 2017. The Chang Da H9 could be either bought or leased in fleets.

Joint ventures
Nanjing Auto has had at least two joint ventures with the Italian automaker Fiat. First, there was a 50/50 joint venture set up in 1999 that collapsed sometime in 2007. This was followed by Naveco, a joint venture with Fiat's commercial vehicles unit, Iveco, established in 1996.

Naveco
In 1996, Nanjing Auto established Naveco (Nanjing Iveco Automobile Co Ltd ) with Iveco, Fiat's commercial vehicles unit. The joint venture initially manufactured a version of the Iveco Daily for sale in the Chinese market, and, as of 1995, it continued to make light trucks but had added diesel engines as well.

The company acquired the truck manufacturing assets of Yuejin Motor Co sometime in 2007.

In July 2017, Naveco started production of the new Iveco China Daily in the new factory of Qiaolin, Nanjing

Naveco products include are listed below:
 * Iveco Daily Ousheng (欧胜)- Facelift based on the fifth generation Iveco Daily.
 * Iveco Power Daily (褒迪)- Facelift based on the third generation Iveco Daily.
 * Iveco Xindeyi (得意)- Extended production of the second generation Iveco Daily
 * Iveco Ouba
 * Iveco Venice

Nanjing Fiat
Another joint venture was Nanjing Fiat, established with Fiat in 1999. This Italian automaker quit the company in 2007 citing a lack of investment on the part of its Chinese partner.

As of 2006, it was producing four models: the Perla and Siena sedans, Palio, compact and Palio Weekend station wagon. Most of Nanjing Fiat's design and tooling was taken over by Zotye in 2008.

The company was located in the Jiangning District's Economic & Technological Development Zone in Nanjing.

Internal divisions
As the company further developed its management, four complete production ecosystems were created.

Yuejin Light Truck Co
A major manufacturing base of Nanjing Auto, it makes light-duty trucks under the Yuejin brand. The production of Isuzu-based SUVs and pickups was transferred to the Wuxi Soyat branch in 2005.

Sometime in 2007, Yuejin's truck-making business was merged with the Iveco-Nanjing Auto joint venture Naveco, which continued to sell under the Yuejin brand.

Located in an economic development zone in Huishan District, Wuxi, (about 150 km east of Nanjing) the Wuxi Branch of Yuejin Automobile Co is a Nanjing Auto production base, and it may be the newest having been built sometime after 2003. Production of the Junda SUVs and pickups was taken over from Nanjing's Yuejin brand in 2005. By 2008, after SAIC's takeover of Nanjing, Wuxi Soyat production came to a halt. The factory is now used by SAIC to build the Maxus commercial van.

Brands
Car brands owned by Nanjing Auto include:
 * Soyat - the Nanjing Yuejin Soyat, a Chinese version of the first generation SEAT Ibiza, is sold under the brand. Discontinued in 2008.
 * MG (MG Rover Group and Powertrain Ltd assets acquired by Nanjing Auto include other brands as well: Wolseley, Austin, Morris, Vanden Plas (outside the US & Canada), American Austin, Princess and Sterling)
 * Yuejin - a commercial vehicle brand

Legal ownership
Sometime before the 1980s, Nanjing Auto was under the joint jurisdiction of both the central and local governments. As of 2003, this vehicle manufacturer was owned by Yuejin Automobile Group of Jiangsu, which held just over fifty-per cent ownership of the company at this time, and two State firms created to dispose of non-performing bank loans, China Huarong Asset Management and China Cinda Asset Management. Nanjing Auto is now a subsidiary of SAIC, having been merged with the much larger automaker in 2007.

SAIC merger
A result of Chinese State policy to encourage mergers and acquisitions in the domestic automobile market, SAIC Motor and the state-owned parent company of Nanjing Auto, Yuejin Automotive Group, finalized a long-planned merger in December 2007. Fitful merger negotiations between the two companies had begun in 2001, and the tie-up was widely anticipated. Prior to the merger, but bidding alongside SAIC, Nanjing Auto purchased the remaining assets of British group MG Rover for near US$100 million.

title: Nanjing Automobile


text:
Sylvestre François Lacroix

Sylvestre François Lacroix (28 April 1765 – 24 May 1843) was a French mathematician.

Life

He was born in Paris, and was raised in a poor family who still managed to obtain a good education for their son. Lacroix's path to mathematics started with the novel Robinson Crusoe. That gave him an interest in sailing and thus navigation too. At that point geometry captured his interest and the rest of mathematics followed. He had courses with Antoine-René Mauduit at College Royale de France and Joseph-Francois Marie at Collége Mazaine of University of Paris. In 1779 he obtained some lunar observations of Pierre Charles Le Monnier and began to calculate the variables of lunar theory. The next year he followed some lectures of Gaspard Monge.

In 1782 at the age of 17 he became an instructor in mathematics at the École de Gardes de la Marine in Rochefort. Monge was the students' examiner and Lacroix's supervisor there until 1795. Returning to Paris, Condorcet hired Lacroix to fill in for him as instructor of gentlemen at a Paris lycée. In 1787 he began to teach at École Royale Militaire de Paris and he married Marie Nicole Sophie Arcambal.

In Besançon, from 1788, he taught courses at the École Royale d'Artillerie under examiner Pierre-Simon Laplace. The posting in Besançon lasted until 1793 when Lacroix returned to Paris.

It was the best of times and the worst of times: Lavoisier had opened inquiry into "new chemistry", a subject Lacroix studied with Jean Henri Hassenfratz. He also joined Societe Philomatique de Paris which provided a journal in which to communicate his findings. On the other hand, Paris was in the grip of the Reign of Terror. In 1794 Lacroix became director of the Executive Committee for Public Instruction. In this position he promoted École Normale and the system of Écoles Centrales. In 1795 he taught at École Centrale des Quatres-Nations.

The first volume Traité du Calcul Différentiel et du Calcul Intégral was published in 1797. Legendre predicted that it "will make itself conspicuous by the choice of methods, their generality, and the rigor of the demonstrations." In hindsight Ivor Grattan-Guinness observed:

"The Traite is by far the most comprehensive work of its kind for that time. The extent of its circulation is not known and it may not have been very large...But it is as well known as any other treatise of its time, and certainly more worth reading than any other, especially for the emerging generation."

In 1799, he became professor of analysis at École Polytechnique.

Lacroix was the author of at least 17 biographies contributed to Biographie Universalle compiled by Louis Gabriel Michaud.

In 1809, he was admitted to Faculté des Sciences de Paris.

In 1812, he began teaching at the Collège de France, and was appointed chair of mathematics in 1815.

When a second edition of the Traité du Calcul Différentiel et du Calcul Intégral was published in three volumes in 1810, 1814, and 1819, Lacroix renewed the text:

"New material, recording many of the advances made during the new century, were introduced throughout the text, which was rounded off by a long list of 'Corrections and additions' and a splendid 'Table of contents'. In addition, the structure of the work was changed somewhat, especially the third volume on series and differences. But the general impression is still that the main streams and directions of the calculus had been amplified and enriched, rather than changed in any substantial way."

During his career, he produced a number of important textbooks in mathematics. Translations of these books into the English language were used in British universities, and the books remained in circulation for nearly 50 years.

In 1812, Babbage set up The Analytical Society for the translation of Differential and Integral Calculus and the book was translated into English in 1816 by George Peacock.

He died on 24 May 1843 in Paris.

Lacroix crater on the Moon was named for him.

Publications

 * Traité du Calcul Différentiel et du Calcul Intégral, Courcier, Paris, 1797-1800.
 * 1797: Premier Tome, link from Internet Archive.
 * 1798: Tome Second, link from Internet Archive.
 * 1800: Tome 3: Traité des Differences et des Séries, link from Internet Archive.
 * 1802: Traité Élémentaire du Calcul Différentiel et du Calcul Intégral, link from HathiTrust.
 * Revised and re-published several times; the 9th edition appeared in 1881.
 * 1804: Complément des Élémens d'algèbre, à l'usage de l'École Centrale des Quatre-Nations, Courcier, Paris, 5th edition (1825), link from Internet Archive.
 * 1814: Eléments de Géométrie à l'usage de l'École Centrale des Quatre-Nations, 10th edition, link from Hathi Trust.
 * 1816: Traité élémentaire de calcul des probabilités, Paris, Mallet-Bachelier, link from HathiTrust.
 * 1816: Essais sur l'Enseignement en Général, et sur celui des Mathématiques en Particulier, link from Internet Archive.

title: Sylvestre François Lacroix


text:
Talk:Dogon languages

"some of them mutually unintelligible" if they are dialects of a language they must be mutually unintelligible. Ericd 21:50, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, though you should check out dialect continuum for a counterexample :P. I've changed 'dialects' to 'varieties'. — mark ✎ 14:02, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually, unless I'm mistaken, dialects of each other do not have to be mutually intelligible. At least, that's what a professor said on the topic. Alexander 007 17:11, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The issue with 'dialect' is precisely that professors say one thing, speakers another, SIL yet another, and the government probably again another thing. — mark ✎ 21:20, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Stub categorization
I added 2 stub categories. This article has quite a bit, but could be expanded to include some info in the suggested template. --A12n 04:25, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

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Talk:Danbury, North Carolina

Danbury has a per capita income of $17,201 not your 26,000-something crap. Check the Stokes County website and see for yerself.

Bikers
That segment about the bikers, while incredibly true, needs to be revised to reflect encyclopeida speech as stated in the Wikipedia format conditions.

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title: Talk:Danbury, North Carolina