text:
Talk:Columba Bush

Defamation
Please do not list information not truly relevent to the subject matter.

(Personal attack removed)
 * I removed the above-mentioned information from the article and I'd like some information about how she convinced him to convert from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism.--HistoricalPisces 17:52, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Information? The answer to your question is obvious. When a Roman Catholic marries, he or she is expected to marry in church, even if the other spouse is non-Catholic. The Roman Catholic party is also expected to do everything in his or her power to have the children baptized and brought up as Catholics. Under such circumstances, there is pressure, either explicit or subtle, on the other party, to convert.

In this case, Mrs. Bush was Catholic. Jeb was not, until he married her.

John Paul Parks (talk) 06:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Legendary?
If the arts expert Sara Turner is legendary, why does she not have a page about her? 68.164.80.212 00:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Customs Infraction section
Don't see how this is really relevant or necessary by itself. I'm inclined to remove it soon if no-one objects. Grand master  ka  01:00, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I object to its removal. I think the information about the customs incident should remain. Mrs. Bush was the wife of the Governor of Florida at the time, and she failed to comply with the law. The violation was called to her attention, and she persisted in her refusal to follow the law. It is important for people to know of such conduct when it is engaged in by a person in that position. Also, while the Bush family is willing to push its religious and moral views on us, it governs itself by another standard.

John Paul Parks (talk) 06:40, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree that this section should be deleted. Columba Bush is a private citizen who has never held public office; being a former "first lady" of a state - which is not actually a job - does not mean any little thing about someone is fair game.

 * I find it strange, after all this is a minor offense and as the post above says she is a private citizen. It does not seem to be in proportion with the rest of the article so I have removed it. For the record I am not american and I am not a fan of the Bush clan or republicans. Ulflarsen (talk) 16:50, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Immigrant status
There should be a brief note as to when Mrs. Bush was naturalized an American, as I presume she has been. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.15.102.104 (talk) 16:57, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Noelle Bush
She is not the topic of this article. Noelle is not a notable person. It is a BLP violation to only focus on one negative aspect of someone's life. Please do not violate BLP by mentioning the younger Bush' substance abuse problems. Please see the discussion concerning Al Gore III.--MaverickLittle (talk) 16:49, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Noelle Bush is not a notable person and as such only brief mention of her as Columba Bush's daughter or Jeb Bush's daughter or any other Bush family member is all that is appropriate. You can review the permanent discussion concerning Noelle's status here: Articles for deletion/Noelle Bush (second nomination).  If she does something that makes her a notable person then this discussion will be broken open, but right now she it considered not notable.  It is inappropriate to use this particular article about Columba Bush to backdoor all of the substance abuse issues.  Noelle is not a notable person and it is a BLP violation to only mention her in the context of substance abuse.--MaverickLittle (talk) 16:57, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The mention of daughter Noelle's drug problems as a motivating factor for Columba Bush's work in drug awareness programs has been deleted multiple times. IT is a relevant fact given the article's focus on her philanthropy.  I don't see how this is a violation of Wikipedia's BLP policy.Arturoramos (talk) 21:52, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Is this article about Noelle Bush? No. Is Noelle Bush a notable person? No.  There is absolutely no reason to mention Noelle's substance abuse problems. Zero.  The article is about Columba Bush. Period.  If you want to talk about Columba Bush's volunteer work on substance abuse issues then that is fine because Columba is a notable person.  Why do you believe that we have to mention Noelle's substance abuse problems? Provide a reason.  You have not. Provide a reason.  She is not a notable person.  You are only mentioning her substance abuse problems without mentioning basically anything about her--except the date of birth and where she went to school.  She is not notable person, why do want to talk about her?  Why do want to talk about only negative aspects of her life?  This presentation is not only violates BLP (Noelle Bush) it is irrelevant to the topic the article (Columba Bush).  You can talk about Columba's charity work without talking about the negative aspect of a non-notable person.  You need to deal with several issues here that you have not done.  You need to overcome the decision by Wikipedia that Noelle Bush is not a notable person, worthy of discussion.  You need to explain why talking about Noelle Bush's life is relevant to the life story of Columba Bush since the article is not about Noelle, but about Columba.  You have not provide any rationale behind these issues.  You have merely stated that you do think it violates BLP.  That is not good enough.  You have not provided any substance.  You just stick it in and then say you want it.  You have not provided substantive responses to the BLP issue or the irrelevance issue or the notability issue.  Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero.  You have not explained how Noelle's situation is any different than Al Gore III's situation.  He has way, way, way, more substance abuse issues than Noelle yet there is absolutely no mention of these issues in Al Gore's article, and quite rightly so.  The information is irrelevant to Al Gore's article. Wikipedia has determined that Al Gore III is a non-notable person--just like Wikipedia has determined that Noelle is a non-notable person.  Wikipedia has determined that merely presenting Al Gore III's substance abuse issues, since he is non-notable, is a BLP violation.  You have not responded to the clear precedent of the Al Gore III decisions.  You have provided nothing except for your desire to put in negative information about Noelle--that is not a good reason to put in information, especially information that has been found to be BLP violating, irrelevant about a non-notable person.  This is what needs to be provided by you.--MaverickLittle (talk) 20:22, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The wikipedia policy regarding "attack pages" states that "negative spinoffs" in which a large amount of negative content is added, are allowed, provided that the information contains adequate citations, etc.Rabbitflyer (talk) 02:03, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

We should all be careful with this page
In the months ahead people will become more interested in Columba Bush - but we should be vigilant. This woman does not meet the criteria for being notable. She is simply the wife of a man who held office nine years ago. She does not seek the spotlight; she has never sought election to anything. Editors may use this page as a way to criticize or embarrass her family, or espouse their own political views in the guise of "journalism." Yet, until January 2017 Columba Bush is still just a private citizen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Purplethree (talk • contribs) 15:24, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

 * For example, it seems relevant to mention her children by name, since that comes from a reputable source. But why mention what each child does? One is a public official and has his own Wikipedia page, but the other two are even less notable than their mother. The article should simply mention their names and stop there.Purplethree (talk) 16:43, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
 * If you saying that you believe Columba Bush is not notable then you should attempt to have the article deleted for lack of notability.--ML (talk) 17:52, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't think an AfD designation would get traction; yet the article seems to be far too detailed for a woman who's sole claim to notability is marriage to someone else.Purplethree (talk) 17:20, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Columba edit question?
What is your rationale or motive behind this edit. Eiffelrhs05 (talk) 14:51, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
 * First of all this discussion belongs right here, on the Columba Bush talk page, not on my talk page.--ML (talk) 14:53, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I noticed you reverted me again. You have decided to make this into an edit war.  Please stop now.--ML (talk) 14:58, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Please review the Manual of style, which you can find here: Manual of Style/Biographies. Specifically, please note the following wording from the MOS: "Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability."  This note from the MOS specifically asks you not to do what you are doing, which is referring to her country of birth in the first paragraph.  There are more than enough mentions of her country of birth littered throughout the article. She is not a notable person because of being born in Mexico.  She is a notable person because she is married to a famous person and she is an American.  There is no justification (and you have not provided one) for putting her country of birth in the opening statement.  Also, please reverting without discussion.  You are engaging in an edit war.  You will get blocked after 3RR.--ML (talk) 15:04, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

de Gallo versus Gallo
A recent edit removed the reference to "Columba de Gallo" in the infobox and left a edit summary that says, "there's no "de" in her last name". However, the editor, Irn, does not provide a reliable source for his edit; therefore, I reverted. Now, I would like to have a discussion about her name before we make any changes. I made the original change to the infobox based upon the article written by Hanna Rosin in the June 2015 issue of The Atlantic magazine, a reliable source from a well-known writer and was recently written. She refers to Ms. Bush as "de Gallo" in the first paragraph in the following sentence: "His life, he said, can be divided into two parts: “b.c. and a.c.—before Columba and after Columba,” referring to Columba Garnica de Gallo, the woman he fell madly in love with while on a high-school trip to Mexico and then married 41 years ago." Also, the introduction paragraph to this Wikipedia article refers to her as merely "Gallo". These two need to be conformed I believe. I'm looking for input from other editors.ML (talk) 13:52, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * This article and this one both refer to her as "Garnica Gallo". You've also got this article referring to her brother as "Garnica Gallo". Furthermore, since we know her parents' last names, we can figure this one out ourselves: her paternal surname is "Garnica" and her maternal is "Gallo"; put those together and you get "Garnica Gallo". If her mother had the last name "de Gallo", then she would, too. -- Irn (talk) 18:02, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I read through the Wikipedia article Spanish naming customs and I came to the conclusion that the article "de" could be used by Mrs. Bush if she wanted it used, but it would not conform to Spanish naming customs as they have developed in Spain and in Mexico. Based upon the fact that "de" can be used, if chosen as a public name, not a legal name, and that have a 80% to 20% split with all of the references then I think it is makes more sense to go with dropping the "de".  "De" is not improper or incorrect, but it is informal and a matter of choice, not a legally accepted option.  So to say that she does not have a "de" in her name is not really a correct statement.  She might have had a "de" in her name if she used the "de" while she was unmarried.  But we just do not know, based upon the reliable sources available.  We do know that she dropped the Spanish naming customs after her marriage to Jeb, not only for her children, but for herself.  She is known as Columba Bush, an Anglo format.  Also, if I read this section here properly: The marital conjunction "de" (of) the "de" is used to move the paternal surname after the maternal surname, i.e., reverse the naming process. It is safer ground to just stick with "Gallo" instead of "de Gallo" because we just don't have definitive support for "de Gallo" even though it is an actual option for her name.--ML (talk) 19:26, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

 * The Atlantic Monthly source (which is used quite a bit in this article) states de Gallo. We go with what the sources say, not what we think they should have said per Spanish naming conventions.  -- WV ● ✉ ✓  17:38, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * We have sources that say both. There are over three times as many Google hits for "Columba Garnica Gallo" as there are for "Columba Garnica de Gallo". As I explained above, it's obvious which one is right. (ML misinterpreted the other article. "Gallo de Garnica" would be a possibility for her mother, like "Garnica de Bush" would be a possibility for her.) Why would we go with the other one just because one particular source uses it? -- Irn (talk) 10:53, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * @Irn: I agree. --  ML (talk) 15:46, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Apparently, it's time for an RfC. -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 21:47, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

"Mexican-American" in the introduction sentence violates MOS
An editor recently inserted into the first sentence of the article the term "Mexican-American". Of course that edit violates Wikipedia MOS. However, this editor made the following false comment in the edit summary: "Incorrect - we do refer to someone in the lede as mexican american if that is their heritage." This sentence is wrong and obnoxious, especially since the editor making the comment clearly has no idea what he talking about. I have included the wording from the MOS below that points out it is inappropriate to call Columba Bush anything other than "American" based upon her notability. This editor MUST NOT make this edit again--unless their a reasonable counterpoint to the MOS. But that editor needs to share it here first and that editor should not engage in an edit war.ML (talk) 16:22, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * MOS guidelines for lead paragraphs should generally be followed; the opening paragraph should establish notability, neutrally describe the person, and provide context. The opening paragraph should usually have:
 * Context (location or nationality);
 * In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable.
 * Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.--ML (talk) 16:16, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Columba Bush is notable because she is married Jeb Bush, in America. She was First Lady of Florida, not Mexico.  Her notability is NOT tied to Mexico.  Do not re-insert the term "Mexican-American".  She is American in the lead.  The article goes into great detail about her past life in Mexico.--ML (talk) 16:16, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That particular editor reverted the article again, within minutes, without engaging in a discussion. I reverted the article back to the last stable version, awaiting discussion.  Those edits violate the clear consensus.--ML (talk) 16:31, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Completely disagree. MOS/BIO states: "Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability."  First of all, her notability isn't tied only to her husband, if it were, she would not have her own article here as "notability isn't inherited".  That argument is a non-starter.  Secondly, her Hispanic heritage and ELL status has been referred to repeatedly in Jeb Bush's political campaigns and subsequent political life as well as practically every reliable source mention of her.  It was significant in her role as First Lady of Florida and continues to be significant in his current campaign.  Finally, the guideline does not forbid original nationality from being referenced.  Indeed, at the Ted Cruz article, you attempted to add a plethora of content regarding Cruz' family's heritage that was most decidedly undue.  I find it disingenuous that you are now fighting to keep such content from this article.

 * Do not continue to edit war over this content. Policy regarding such behavior states that when content added/removed has been reverted, that WP:BRD is to apply.  'D' = "discuss"; it doesn't say BRDR.  While discussion is taking place, the version disputed is to remain as it previously.  You have now violated that policy.  Discussion here is what should be happening - I hope you intend to follow policy on this and discuss further.  In fact, if you want to do the right thing, you would revert your reversion.  -- WV ● ✉ ✓  16:35, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not engaged in an edit war. I simply reverted the document back to the way that it was, when you broke the consensus.  I started this discussion.  You didn't.  You just reverted.  I have warned you on your talk page not to engage in an edit war. Please do not revert until there has been a broad consensus reached with the input of many, many other editors.  You are attempting to change the article from its most stable version and you need to work with me to get to that consensus--which until you responded here, you were completely unwilling to do.  It is great that you decided to stop your edit war and discuss.  Please note that this particular discussion (about the edit war) should be on your talk page because that is was started and where it is appropriate, but you deleted it and called it BS and brought it over here. I'm just responding to your comments above.  I haven't violated any policy and if you want to talk about that then you need to discuss it somewhere else, not here.  This bringing this up here is inappropriate and you know it.  Please do not edit war and please stop being an edit warrior.--ML (talk) 18:05, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

 * "I'm not engaged in an edit war." You have been engaging in edit warring behavior. And not just here, but at several articles for months.
 * "I simply reverted the document back to the way that it was, when you broke the consensus." What consensus? There was no consensus prior to this discussion.
 * "I started this discussion. You didn't." Actually, no. As I noted above, there was an edit conflict on the page when I posted my comments.  That means I was starting the discussion prior to you.  But, it really doesn't matter.  Discussions are not meant to be a contest.
 * "You are attempting to change the article from its most stable version" To quote Inigo Montoya, "You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means". Stable means what has been long- or most perpetually-standing.  The article has said "Mexican-American" or "Mexican-born" for a very long time.  At least five years.  That is, until you started edit warring over it a couple of months ago.  Currently, the consensus in this discussion is for keeping "Mexican-American".
 * "Please note that this particular discussion (about the edit war) should be on your talk page" No, it's appropriate for the discussion to be here, on the article talk page.
 * -- WV ● ✉ ✓ 18:17, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Most importantly, source after source (including her own husband) refers to Columba Bush as "Mexican-American". Because those sources refer to her as such, then it is part of her notability.  The following are just a few reliable source examples of Columba Bush being referred to as "Mexican American":

 * Jeb Bush refers to his wife as Mexican American
 * Interview where she is referred to as Mexican American
 * The Washington Post attests to the importance of her heritage, "this tall Texas native with the Mexican American wife has remarkably come to represent a kind of Hispanic consciousness for the party."
 * Washington Examiner article talks of the importance of Columba's Mexican-American heritage in relation to Bush's politics "Jeb Bush's connection to the Hispanic community is hardly a secret."
 * Chicago Tribune article talks in great depth about her Mexican heritage and states, "She is enormously and proudly Mexican"

 * There are many more where these came from. They all attest to Columba Bush being not just American, but strongly and notably Mexican American. -- WV ● ✉ ✓  16:51, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

 * MOS:BIO says to generally just include nationality. Since this is a person with multiple nationalities, one could go with "Mexican-born American" or "Mexican–American". A hyphenated American (which she is) is an American citizen with multiple nationalities. Snuggums (talk / edits) 17:29, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * This one is a no-brainer. Her notability is tied to the fact that she was once First Lady of Florida and that has NOTHING to do with Mexico.--ML (talk) 18:07, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * One's notability is irrelevant to nationality. She was born in Mexico and is a citizen of Mexico as well as the United States. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 18:09, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The MOS, which I quoted above, beg to differ. The MOS states as follows: "[P]revious nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability."  Her Mexican nationality is not relevant to her notability.--ML (talk) 18:17, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

"Her Mexican nationality is not relevant to her notability" Snuggums and I have given sound reasoning and examples as to how it is relevant. Would you like to see more examples of tnotability in relation to her Mexican heritage? -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 18:23, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, you speak for both of you? Snuggusms did not make that argument.  He stated that notability has nothing to do with it.  His argument was that she was born in Mexcio so she is Mexican and therefore we need to say she is a "Mexican-American".  Don't put words in other's mouths.  Just speak for you.  Now, you haven't provided anything that disputes the fact that her notability, for Wikipedia purposes, is based upon her being First Lady of Florida--that's it.  Her role as First Lady of Florida is not tied to Mexico in any way whatsoever.--ML (talk) 18:31, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Please comment on edits, not editors. I know what  said, and what he said is that Mexican-American is appropriate and correct for this article, as it is in other articles.  Bush's notability is established in countless reliable sources based on her Mexican heritage (were she is referred to over and over as Mexican-American) as well as her time as first lady of Florida.  In fact, now that she is a former first lady, her Mexican heritage takes precedence in numerous reliable sources, making and even stronger case for her to be appropriately referred to as Mexican-American.  -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓  19:05, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Her notability has nothing to do with the fact that she was born in Mexico. Her notability is based upon being married to Jeb Bush, not where she was born.  See MOS:BLPLEAD.ML (talk) 20:22, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I agree with ML. WP:BIRTHPLACE is clear.Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:29, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I disagree. She is Mexican-born. She spent the first two decades of her life in Mexico and she did not even speak English until her 20s. She may even be a dual citizen.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:00, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
 * You can disagree all you like but facts are stubborn things and you cannot just pick your own facts and ignore what reality is. You claim that she might be a dual citizen but you have not provided a reliable source to support your opinion.  This is your opinion.  It is not fact.  If you presenting it as fact then you need to provide a reliable source to support it as a fact.  Also, your comment above is not responsive to the fact that in Wikipedia's MOS it requires that a person's nationality is only mentioned in the first sentence if the nationality is relevant to that person's notability.  Bush is not notable because she was born in Mexico.  She is notable because she is married to Jeb Bush, the former Governor of Florida, a current Republican Presidential candidate, and the brother and son of ex-Presidents. She is an American and has lived in the U.S. for vast majority of her life. None of the reasons for her notability has anything to do with where she was born.  You have not provided any reasoning that she is notable because of where she was born and used she lived for only 1/3rd of her life.  She is now a U.S. citizen and she has lived in the U.S. for 2/3rds of her life.  Her place of birth is irrelevant to her notability and you have not provided any reasoning to refute that analysis.--ML (talk) 16:06, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * By the same token, you have failed to provide a reference showing that she has renounced her Mexican citizenship, if that is even the case. It is a known unknown. What is a known known, however, is that she was born on foreign soil and she was an alien until she married Bush at 21. She did not even speak English for the first two decades of her life.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:11, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, all of those things are facts and they are true, but none of these facts negate the fact that you must provide show how her notability is tied to any of these facts. You have made a list of facts and they are all very fine facts but you have not tied them to her notability.  And even though they are fine, outstanding facts they are also irrelevant to her notability.  Also, I don't need to prove that she renounced her Mexican citizenship.  Once again, you miss the point of the MOS rule entirely.  We all know that became a U.S. citizen in 1979 so she is an American and that is how she will be referred to in the opening paragraph, as is required by the MOS.--ML (talk) 16:20, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

First name IPA suggestion
Never have liked the "pronounced coh-LOOM-bah" pronunciation help after her name. The IPA is /kəˈlʌm bə/ and should replace the other. When the article is unlocked, that is. -- <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #0099FF, -4px -4px 15px #99FF00;">WV ● <span style="text-shadow: 4px 4px 15px #FF9900, -4px -4px 15px #FF0099;">✉ ✓ 03:19, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Is she a dual citizen?
She was naturalized as a US citizen in 1979, but she was a Mexican citizen from 1953 to 1979. Did she renounce her Mexican citizenship, or is she a dual citizen?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:35, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

qual a altura dela? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.64.9.219 (talk) 10:02, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Columba Bush


text:
Langemak (crater)

Langemak is a prominent impact crater on the far side of the Moon. It is located less than one crater diameter west-northwest of Danjon, and nearly due east of Meitner. To the southwest of Langemak is Kondratyuk. Langemak partly overlies the larger and older crater Langemak N. This feature is also attached to the northeastern rim of Kondratyuk.

To the northeast of Langemak is the crater Necho. Ray material from this impact lies across the rim and interior of Langemak, particularly along the northwest and eastern halves.

The outer rim of Langemak is relatively fresh and well-defined. The most notable impact along the rim is the small crater Sherrington along the southwestern edge. The remainder of the rim is roughly circular, but irregular with multiple small outward bulges. The inner wall is terraced in places, with the appearance of slumping along parts of the upper edge.

Within the interior is a low, curving central ridge near the midpoint. There is a patch of lower albedo material to the southwest of this ridge, extending to the edge of the inner wall.

Prior to formal naming by the IAU in 1970, Langemak was called Crater 279. Langemak N, to the south of Langemak, was called Crater 280.

The crater is named in honor of Georgy Langemak, a Soviet space program engineer executed during the Great Purge.

Satellite craters
By convention these features are identified on lunar maps by placing the letter on the side of the crater midpoint that is closest to Langemak.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Langemak (crater)


text:
Talk:Longjing tea

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 October 2021 and 9 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): TFMonk19970531.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:15, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

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The picture of the well
I don't know what's going on here, or why and who put up the picture of that ridiculous hole in the ground, or who told them it was the Dragon well, but I don't think that's true at all.

I've been there myself for one, and while I could have been misled (there might even be more than one called by that name), which I'm not suspecting considering the alternative, a few other facts speaks for my case:

For example, in the Longjing_tea article, it's described as "a well that contains relatively dense water, and after rain the lighter rainwater floating on its surface sometimes exhibits a sinuous and twisting boundary with the well water, which is supposed to resemble the movement of a traditional Chinese dragon." Also, I have read from other sources that if the water is stirred, the same effect appears.

So, first of all, is it even possible to see the water in that hole the size of a soup bowl? Much less stir it? Can you reach down at all? Is the water surface even wide enough to exhibit the twisting boundary effect?

Secondly, the governmental website of Hangzhou apparently agrees with me.

This is what the well looks like.

I have been to this particular well, and I have stirred the water, and there is, in fact, a very peculiar effect on the surface. It's like a knife sharp, zig-zaging edge dividing the surface in two, energetically wriggling its way across the surface.

I don't know what the hole in the ground on the picture is, but it's not the Dragon well. I have uploaded from my visit there, put into public domain, and if no one have anything to object, I'll switch the picture to the real well.

Sane Traitor (talk) 14:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that government website is a better source than any of the sources that I removed from the article, although I'd still prefer to find more independent sources--the local government has an interest in promoting their area and anything associated with it. Cazort (talk) 18:12, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Qiqiang and Queshe
Qiqiang means flag pole, or one bud and one leaf.

Queshe means bird tongue, or one bud and two leaves. Confusingly, some people also refer queshe as one bud and one leaf.

They refer to the parts of Longjing tea that is harvested, and only indirectly the grade. Usually the smaller the leaf and bud the higher the grade.

I have removed these two references from the text, which said that qiqiang is top grade, followed by queshe.

Also to mention that Lianxing is lotus heart, which is a single bud, smaller and younger, therefore higher quality.

The relationship between grade and the type of tea leaves is best described separately. I leave it to a stronger person to do this.

Juliantai 13:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have removed these again. AdventurousMe (talk) 05:30, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Pan Frying and Steaming
Most Chinese green tea is pan fried. Japanese green tea is steamed. The text incorrectly mentioned that most green tea is steamed. I have removed it. Juliantai 13:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

To much info?
In the world of tea, the term 'fermentation' refers to the drying of the freshly picked leaves, resulting in enzymatic oxidation. This oxidation is stopped by frying or steaming the leaves before they completely dry out. should be somewhere else, I've left it in for now.

As is the case with other green teas, Dragonwell tea leaves are unfermented. When steeped, the tea produces a yellow-green color, gentle pure aroma, and a rich flavor. The tea is contains vitamin C, amino acids should not really be here, because this is common to all green teas

I have also replaced all occurances of Dragonwell to Longjing as not to confuse. --Iateasquirrel 19:29, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Edible?
Tea is edible after infusion, are'nt they all? Would be nice to have a reference for that --Iateasquirrel 19:32, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Longjing tea leaves lack the bitter taste of most teas. (They taste like veggies after infusion). I'll provide a picture next time I brew some. --Yuje 07:29, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * I have had some bitter Longjing before, with the taste of heated metal; but that was just a cheap can and a long time ago. If you take some pictures have a look at Category:Infobox Tea/No Pictures.--Iateasquirrel 08:04, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The higher grade varieties taste better, and the infused beverage produces very little color. Unfortunately for Wikipedia, I'm all out of Xihu Longjing leaves. --Yuje 08:22, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * I am aware of that, any information on what Before the rains is? I am more of an Oolong lover but I've heard it in passing. --Iateasquirrel 08:54, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually, there is a very famous local dish known as Longjing prawns that features peeled shrimp (虾仁) cooked with leaves of Longjing Tea. It tastes very good. So yes, not only are Longjing tea leaves edible, but they're very delicious when cooked with shrimp!

(I'm a local of Hangzhou, by the way.) Woshiyiweizhongguoren (🇨🇳) 15:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Inadequate Sourcing
Per WP:Reliable Sources none of the sources are adequate. The current sources are Amazing-Green-Tea.com (which is run by a not-very-well-known tea company), Chinese-Tea-Culture.com, which is a self-published site also associated with a not-very-well-known tea company, and teatalk101.blogspot.com, which is a blog, again, associated with a not-very-well-known tea company, not usable as a reliable source per wikipedia's guidelines. I wouldn't even support using these sources if they were associated with a well-known tea company!

I am going to remove all sources. There are also a lot of bold claims made here, I agree with the weasel word tag...I am going to remove some unsourced statements too! Cazort (talk) 15:42, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

replaced the artificially green tealeaves in glass with a better representation
I have replaced the picture with artificially green color tealeaves in the glass with a picture donated by the Tea Guardian to reflect what is a fine Longjing tea steeping in a glass. This is also more in agreement with the description of the color of the tea in the article.

Bill Ukers (talk) 02:58, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Marketing talks and inaccurate information
I have moved some content such as the Tiger Spring and naming after certain well to the history and legend section to make this article a bit cleaner. The previous bit about Yixing teapots not suitable for preparing Longjing is misleading, and citing that the minerals from these pots would dissolve into the tea. This must have stemmed from people having access to fake products. Yixing pots have been created and gotten popular in the 18th century exactly for preparing green tea well, including Longjing and other fine green tea. At that time, China had been producing the finest porcelain the world has yet to see and glass was soon popular amongst the elitists. Yixing teapots continued to be renowned for preparing green tea well. A properly primed genuine Yixing pot does not emit taste or smell, other than those for the tea it is primed for.

As I read on down the article, I find it depressing to read yet more marketing talks such as those about how expensive the tea can get and naming which region is the most "famous". I'll come back to improve them later, if no one is. Bill Ukers (talk) 03:12, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Bill, there are way too many subjective statements, some not even accurate ("According to many tea experts, the Longjing tea is amongst the finest and most representative of green teas.") I will clean up some of these statements. Also, why is Xihu spelled "Xi Hu?" And Meijiawu "Mei Jia Wu?" Dhochstetter (talk) 18:47, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Name
Is it worthwhile mentioning the alternate romanizations of longjing? Apart from in mainland China, I haven't seen anywhere that actually spells it "longjing". I've personally encountered "Lung ching", and something like "leong ching". If someone can track down a source perhaps... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.93.41 (talk) 06:08, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

 * Where? If you can provide a reliable source or two giving those alternative names for Longjing, feel free to add them. I'm a local, though, and from firsthand experience I can say that "Longjing", in Hanyu Pinyin, is the romanization I encounter most often. Woshiyiweizhongguoren (🇨🇳) 15:08, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Authenticity
"It is actually quite easy to tell if the Longjing is authentic and that is by taste and smell. The aroma and flavors of the inauthentic Longjing teas are nowhere near as complex, or longlasting as the authentic tea. These teas, although similar in appearance are mild in flavor and aroma and do not have the long lasting aftertaste of the original"

A single source is provided for this claim, and that source simply makes the same claim without backing it up. Obviously there aren't a lot of double-blind tea taste trials around, but that still doesn't justify taking the claim of a single website and portraying it as encyclopedic. A forum thread with user experiences would be better.

That being said, I also find it difficult to believe that tea must be grown in the region it was traditionally grown in for it to taste as it should. There's no reason why growers in one reason couldn't produce the same quality in another region. There are obviously some familial secrets that still haven't been commercialized yet, but I doubt they can account for a large difference in taste. LiamSP (talk) 20:05, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Major Cleanup Required
I don't have time to fix the issues in this article, so I've flagged the whole thing as Improve. It's badly sourced and incoherent and just plain wrong in places. A lot of the errors identified elsewhere on this talk page seem to be being reinserted, serially.

First and foremost, a Chinese speaker needs to look up the Chinese government regulations and use these as a basis for what's written.

A few suggestions: move health benefits away from production. Expand production to include harvest & hand-roasting.

Varieties: divide this into harvest time - Qingmian, Yumian, Yuhou - and region - create a separate section about where it comes from, including the Gov't regulations and different production areas.

Possibly also create a section on Longjing Tea outside China where you can dump all the other weird nomenclature.

The myths also need sorting out, and the whole thing needs a thorough copyedit.

As regard sources, please note that some are sourced from Wikipedia - this one includes "citation needed' (!) http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90782/99727/6937803.html AdventurousMe (talk) 05:37, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Longjing tea


text:
Vicia ervilia

Vicia ervilia, called ervil or bitter vetch, is an ancient legume crop of the Mediterranean region. Besides the English names, other common names include: gavdaneh (Persian), kersannah (Arabic), yero (Spanish), rovi (Greek), and burçak (Turkish). The nutritional value of the grain for ruminant cattle has guaranteed the species' continued cultivation in Morocco, Spain and Turkey. The crop is easy to cultivate and harvest and can be grown on very shallow, alkaline soils.

The grain when split resembles red lentils. For human consumption the bitterness of the seeds needs to be removed through leaching by several changes of boiling water. Owing to this bitterness, it is unlikely that someone would accidentally confuse bitter vetch with red lentils. According to Zohary and Hopf, this crop is consumed only by the poorest people or in times of famine. Pliny the Elder states that bitter vetch (ervum) has medicinal value like vetch (vicia), citing the letters of Augustus where the emperor wrote that he regained his health from a diet of bitter vetch (N.H. 18.38).

The grain is an excellent sheep and cattle feed concentrate. It has been held in high esteem by farmers in the Old World since the beginning of agriculture to improve the nutritional value of bulk feeds.

The wild strains of bitter vetch are limited to an area that includes Anatolia and northern Iraq, with an extension south along the Anti-Lebanon Mountains of Syria and Lebanon. Traces of the earliest domesticated instances were recovered from several archeological sites in Turkey, with an uncorrected radiocarbon dating of the 7th and 6th millennia BC. The plant is linked with the Talmudic borit karshina, a planted listed in the second century as an ingredient in the incense offerings employed in the Tabernacle and the First and Second Temples in Jerusalem.

title: Vicia ervilia


text:
Arthur Collier

Arthur Collier (12 October 1680 – September 1732) was an English Anglican priest and philosopher who wrote about the non-existence of an absolute external world.

Early life
Collier was born at the rectory of Steeple Langford, Wiltshire. He entered Pembroke College, Oxford, in July 1697, but in October 1698 he and his brother William became members of Balliol. His father having died in 1697, it was arranged that the family living of Langford Magna should be given to Arthur as soon as he was old enough.

Career
Having graduated from Oxford and been made a priest, Collier was presented to the benefice of Steeple Langford in 1704, holding it until his death in 1732. His sermons show no traces of his bold theological speculations, and he seems to have been faithful in the discharge of his duty. He was in financial difficulties (some say due to his wife ), from which at last he was obliged to free himself by selling the reversion of the Langford advowson to Corpus Christi College, Oxford. He and the family moved to Salisbury where Jane and Margaret Collier were born.

His philosophical opinions grew out of a diligent study of Descartes and Malebranche. John Norris also strongly influenced him by his An Essay towards the Theory of the Ideal or Intelligible World (1701–1704). It is remarkable that Collier makes no reference to Locke, and shows no sign of having any knowledge of his works. As early as 1703 he seems to have become convinced of the non-existence of an absolute external world, which would have no relation to a perceiving observer. In 1712 he wrote two essays, which are still in manuscript, one on substance and accident, and the other called Clavis Philosophica. His chief work appeared in 1713, under the title ''Clavis Universalis: or, A New Inquiry after Truth. Being a Demonstration of the Non-Existence, or Impossibility, of an External World'' (printed privately, Edinburgh, 1836, and reprinted in Metaphysical Tracts, 1837, edited by Sam. Parr). It was favourably mentioned by Reid, Stewart and others, was frequently referred to by the Leibnitzians, and was translated into German by Johann Christian Eschenbach the Elder in 1756, Berkeley's Treatise Concerning the Principles of Human Knowledge and Theory of Vision preceded it by three and four years respectively, but there is no evidence that they were known to Collier before the publication of his book.

Private life
Collier married Margaret the daughter of Nicholas Johnson who was the army's paymaster and his wife who was a sister of Sir Stephen Fox. He had four children who survived him. Arthur was a lawyer who died in 1777; Charles became a colonel; Jane Collier was a writer and Margaret Collier travelled.

Philosophical work
His views are grounded on two presuppositions:
 * 1) The utter aversion of common sense to any theory of representative perception
 * 2) The difference between imagination and sense perception is only one of degree.

The former is the basis of the negative part of his argument; the latter supplies him with all the positive account he has to give, and that is meagre enough. The Clavis consists of two parts. After explaining that he will use the term external world in the sense of absolute, self-existent, independent matter, he attempts in the first part to prove that the visible world is not external, by showing first, that the seeming externality of a visible object is no proof of real externality, and second, that a visible object, as such, is not external.

The image of a centaur seems as much external to the mind as any object of sense; and since the difference between imagination and perception is only one of degree, God could so act upon the mind of a person imagining a centaur, that he would perceive it as vividly as any object can be seen. Similar illustrations are used to prove the second proposition, that a visible object, as such, is not external.

The first part ends with a reply to objections based on the universal consent of men, on the assurance given by touch of the extra existence of the visible world, and on the truth and goodness of God (Descartes), which would be impugned if our senses deceived us. Collier argues naively that if universal consent means the consent of those who have considered the subject, it may be claimed, for his view. He thinks with Berkeley, that objects of sight are quite distinct from those of touch, and that the one therefore cannot give any assurance of the other; and he asks the Cartesians to consider how far God's truth and goodness are called in question by their denial of the externality of the secondary qualities.

The second part of the book is taken up with a number of metaphysical arguments to prove the impossibility of an external world. The pivot of this part is the logical principle of contradiction. From the hypothesis of an external world a series of contradictions are deduced, such as that the world is both finite and infinite, is movable and immovable, &c.; and finally, Aristotle and various other philosophers are quoted, to show that the external matter they dealt with, as mere potentiality, is just nothing at all. Among other uses and consequences of his treatise, Collier thinks it furnishes an easy refutation of the Romish doctrine of transubstantiation. If there is no external world, the distinction between substance and accidents vanishes, and these become the sole essence of material objects, so that there is no room for any change whilst they remain as before. Sir William Hamilton thinks that the logically necessary advance from the old theory of representative perception to idealism was stayed by anxiety to save this miracle of the church; and he gives Collier credit for being the first to make the discovery.

His Clavis Universalis is interesting on account of the resemblance between its views and those of Berkeley. Both were moved by their dissatisfaction with the theory of representative perception. Both have the feeling that it is inconsistent with the common sense of mankind, which will insist that the very object perceived is the sole reality. They equally affirm that the so-called representative image is the sole reality, and discard as unthinkable the unperceiving material cause of the philosophers. Of objects of sense, they say, their esse is percipi. But Collier never got beyond a bald assertion of the fact, while Berkeley addressed himself to an explanation of it. The thought of a distinction between direct and indirect perception never dawned upon Collier. To the question how all matter exists in dependence on percipient mind his only reply is, "Just how my reader pleases, provided it be somehow". As cause of our sensations and ground of our belief in externality, he substituted for an unintelligible material substance an equally unintelligible operation of divine power. His book exhibits no traces of a scientific development. The most that can be said about him is that he was an intelligent student of Descartes and Malebranche, and had the ability to apply the results of his reading to the facts of his experience. In philosophy he is a curiosity, and nothing more. His biographer attributes the comparative failure of the Clavis to its inferiority in point of style, but the crudeness of his thought had quite as much to do with his failure to gain a hearing. Hamilton (Discussions, p. 197) allows greater sagacity to Collier than to Berkeley, on the grounds that he did not vainly attempt to enlist man's natural belief against the hypothetical realism of the philosophers. But Collier did so as far as his light enabled him. He appealed to the popular conviction that the proper object of sense is the sole reality, although he despaired of getting men to give up their belief in its externality, and asserted that nothing but prejudice prevented them from doing so; and there is little doubt that, if it had ever occurred to him, as it did to Berkeley, to explain the genesis of the notion of externality, he would have been more hopeful of commending his theory to the popular mind.

In theology Collier was an adherent of the High Church party, though his views were by no means orthodox. In the Jacobite Mists Journal he attacked Bishop Hoadly's defence of sincere errors. His views on the problems of Arianism, and his attempt to reconcile it with orthodox theology, are contained in A Specimen of True Philosophy (1730, reprinted in Metaphysical Tracts, 1837) and ''Logology, or a Treatise on the Logos in Seven Sermons on John 1. 1, 2, 3, 14'' (1732, analysed in Metaph. Tracts). These may be compared with Berkeley's Siris.

title: Arthur Collier


text: User talk:69.138.188.248

title: User talk:69.138.188.248


text:
Iain Crichton Smith

Iain Crichton Smith, (Gaelic: Iain Mac a' Ghobhainn; 1 January 1928 – 15 October 1998) was a Scottish poet and novelist, who wrote in both English and Gaelic. He was born in Glasgow, but moved to the Isle of Lewis at the age of two, where he and his two brothers were brought up by their widowed mother in the small crofting town of Bayble, which also produced Derick Thomson. Educated at the University of Aberdeen, Crichton Smith took a degree in English, and after completing his national service in the Army Educational Corps, went on to become a teacher. He taught in Clydebank, Dumbarton and Oban from 1952, retiring to become a full-time writer in 1977, although he already had many novels and poems published.

Overview of work
Crichton Smith was brought up in a Gaelic-speaking community, learning English as a second language once he attended school. Friend and poet Edwin Morgan notes that unlike his contemporaries (such as Sorley Maclean and Derick Thomson), Crichton Smith was more prolific in English than in Gaelic, perhaps viewing his writing in what, from Crichton Smith's view, was an imposed non-native language as a challenge to English and American poets. However, Crichton Smith also produced much Gaelic poetry and prose, and also translated some of the work of Sorley Maclean from Gaelic to English, as well as some of his own poems originally composed in Gaelic. Much of his English language work is actually directly related to, or translated from, Gaelic equivalents.

Crichton Smith's work also reflects his dislike of dogma and authority, influenced by his upbringing in a close-knit, island Presbyterian community, as well as his political and emotional thoughts and views of Scotland and the Highlands. Despite his upbringing, Crichton Smith was an atheist. A number of his poems explore the subject of the Highland Clearances, and his best-known novel Consider the Lilies (1968) is an account of the eviction of an elderly woman during such times.

Elderly women and alienated individuals are common themes in his work.

Poetry
Crichton Smith's poetry quite often had a character perhaps based on his mother. He also typically used natural images to convey emotion.

His poetry includes:
 * Culloden and After (1961) - an attack on that period in British history, especially "Bonnie Charlie".
 * Old Woman (1965)
 * The Iolaire (date)
 * The Man who Cried Wolf (1964)
 * You Lived in Glasgow (date)
 * You'll Take a Bath (date)
 * John Brown (KHS)(1966)

Reviews

 * Relich, Mario (1976), review of The Notebooks of Robinson Crusoe, in Burnett, Ray (ed.), Calgacus 3, Spring 1976, pp. 54 & 55,
 * Craig, David (1980), review of On the Island, in Cencrastus No. 2, Spring 1980, pp. 39 - 41,
 * Lothian, Andrew (1981), review of Murdo and Other Stories, in Cencrastus No. 6, Autumn 1981, p. 41
 * Craig, Cairns (1983), Crichton Smith: Poetry and Prose, a review of Selected Poems 1955 - 1980 and A Field Full of Folk, in Hearn, Sheila G. (ed.), Cencrastus No. 11, New Year 1983, pp. 44 & 45,
 * Grant, Jamie (1984), review of The Search, in Hearn, Sheila G. (ed.), Cencrastus No. 15, New Year 1984, p. 53,

Awards and honours
He was made an officer of the Order of the British Empire in 1980.

title: Iain Crichton Smith


text:
Laue (crater)

Laue is a lunar impact crater that lies across the south-southwestern rim and interior floor of the huge walled plain Lorentz. This feature is located on the Moon's far side, just beyond the west-northwestern limb. Under conditions of favorable libration and illumination from the Sun, this area can be seen at a very oblique angle from the Earth.

This is a moderately worn crater formation with several small craters along the rim. The largest of these is a small crater that intrudes slightly into the northeastern rim. A cup-shaped crater lies along the east-southeastern inner wall. The interior wall is generally less wide along the northern side than elsewhere, which may have been the result of the terrain in which the impact was formed.

There is a pair of low central ridges offset just to the south of the crater midpoint. A small, cup-shaped crater lies within the interior floor to the north-northwest of the center. The remainder of the floor is relatively level, but is marked by a number of small craters.

Satellite craters
By convention these features are identified on lunar maps by placing the letter on the side of the crater midpoint that is closest to Laue.

title: Laue (crater)


text:
Maks Baće Milić

Maksimilijan "Maks" Baće, also known as Milić (12 December 1914, Pakoštane – 4 December 2005, Split), was a Yugoslav and Croatian revolutionary.

Biography
Born in Pakoštane (near Zadar) and raised in Split, he studied philosophy in Zagreb, became a student organizer and a member of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia in 1934. While a student, for his anti-state activities, he was convicted and imprisoned for six months in Belgrade. After graduating in 1937 he left for Spain where he took part in the Spanish Civil War on the Republican side until its conclusion. He was wounded twice, and after the republican defeat interned in Southern France and Germany where he was forced to work in a Nazi airplane factory. He escaped and returned to Zagreb in the summer of 1941.

World War II
Experience gained in Spain proved valuable after the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia in 1941. His native Croatia was carved up between Italy and the Independent State of Croatia, with Italy fielding a strong occupation force in Dalmatia. Italian forces were supported by the pro-royal Chetniks in Serb-populated areas. The occupation led many Dalmatians to join the resistance organized by Tito's Partisans. The first detachments formed in Summer 1941 and manned by idealistic but inexperienced youths from coastal towns were poorly led and decimated by Italian units even before they began to operate in the Split hinterland in the vicinity of Sinj. This was a major blow to the resistance movement in Dalmatia. On his return to Zagreb Maks Baće was directed by the Party to travel to Split to discover the causes of that failure. He was then given the task of starting a new uprising which he organized in the region of the Biokovo mountain. He used the war pseudonym "Milić" in order to protect his family in Split and throughout the war people knew him only under that name.

Baće believed that the partisans should rely on the support of rural people in the hinterland, referred to by citifolk as "peasants," and his strategy began to bear fruit in early 1942 when the new partisan detachments proved to be more resilient and more effective in their battles with the Italian, Ustasha and Chetnik forces. "Milić" became a popular name among the peasants of the region and he created thousands of new soldiers as the volunteers joined the partisans in large numbers. During an operation in the vicinity of the Dalmatian village Tugare Maks Baće was shot through the chest and left by his comrades as dead. He survived thanks to the care of a local peasant family and then smuggled himself into Split where he reconvalesced. In 1943 he was appointed the commander-in-chief of Partisan Detachments in Dalmatia.

After the capitulation of Italy in September 1943 Maks Baće was the partisan officer who accepted the surrender of the Italian forces in Split, and the Partisans briefly took control of much of Dalmatia. However, they were soon expelled by the vastly stronger German forces which replaced the Italians. As one after the other of the Dalmatian islands fell to the Germans, partisan units withdrew to the most distant of them, the island of Vis. Maks Baće commanded the island and sent a controversial telegram to Josip Broz Tito requesting an order from him to defend the island. This he received, along with the reinforcement of another brigade of Partisan forces. A free Vis was later critical to Tito's own escape from German airdrop encirclement in Bosnia (called "Operation Knight's Leap") of his Drvar headquarters, as well as the locus of early negotiations between partisans and the Allies. Liberated Vis also served as moral support for the partisans in the many periods of almost hopeless struggle with the militarily superior Germans. In 1944 Baće was one of the founders of OZNA. For his war service, Maks Baće received the coveted medal of the People's Hero of Yugoslavia.

After the War
After the war Maks Baće was a minister in the government of Yugoslavia, its ambassador to Japan and Sweden and then a member of the National Assembly and its Secretary. He was a free thinker viewing party dogma critically and gradually became disillusioned with Communism and the ideological (as opposed to experience-based) political thinking of the regime. In 1971 during Croatian Spring he made the significant political statement of resigning from the Communist Party, and retired to Split, at which point he began to be viewed as a dissident. His absence from public life continued even after the arrival of democracy in the 1990s. When the Croatian media interviewed him at his 90th birthday, he revealed that he was working on a book critical of Karl Marx's thought. The book was finished and published in 2003 as: "Absurds of Karl Marx" (Apsurdi Karla Marxa). He died of natural causes in his family home at age 91.

title: Maks Baće Milić


text: Category:Montane grasslands and shrublands


text:
Gregg Zaun

Gregory Owen Zaun (born April 14, 1971) is an American baseball analyst, public speaker and a former professional baseball catcher. He played for nine teams over 16 seasons in Major League Baseball from 1995 until 2010, winning a World Series Championship in 1997. From 2006 to 2017, he served as an on-air personality with Sportsnet in Canada.

Early life
Zaun, the nephew of former MLB catcher Rick Dempsey, was a high school teammate of Mark Loretta. Zaun and Loretta attended Saint Francis High School in La Cañada, California, and graduated in 1989. Zaun was recruited to play college baseball at USC, UCLA, Loyola Marymount and Oklahoma, but signed a letter of intent to play for Texas. However, he chose not to play for Texas upon learning that they had signed a junior college All-American catcher. Zaun also played for the United States national baseball team at the 1989 World Junior Baseball Championship in Canada.

Professional career
Drafted by the Baltimore Orioles in the 17th round of the 1989 Major League Baseball draft, Zaun reached the majors with the Orioles in June 1995. He was used primarily as a back-up early in his career. He batted .231 with one home run and 13 runs batted in (RBI) in 39 games with the Orioles in 1996 before being optioned on August 6 to the Rochester Red Wings where he hit .319 in 14 games. He was sent to the Florida Marlins on August 23 to complete a transaction from two days prior on August 21 when Terry Mathews was acquired by the Orioles. After winning a World Series with the Marlins in 1997, he became their starting catcher to finish out the 1998 season when Charles Johnson and then Mike Piazza were traded. He then moved to the Texas Rangers prior to the 1999 season. He has also played with the Kansas City Royals, Houston Astros, and Colorado Rockies. He signed as a free agent with the Blue Jays prior to the 2004 season. Valuable in the line-up as a switch-hitter, he set a career high in 2005 with 133 games.

2006–2011
Prior to the 2006 season, the Blue Jays signed Bengie Molina as the everyday catcher, making Zaun the backup. Zaun started 2006 on the injured list, with Jason Phillips serving as Molina's backup during the first week of the year. Zaun hit a game-winning two-run homer off the Tampa Bay Devil Rays' Jason Childers in his return on April 8. Molina's struggles against right-handed pitchers caused John Gibbons to platoon the two, with Molina generally starting against left-handed pitchers and Zaun playing against righties. On September 13, 2006, he hit home runs from both sides of the plate in the same game. He was only the fourth Blue Jay in history to do this.

Because the Blue Jays actively pursued Rod Barajas of the Texas Rangers as the club's new starting catcher during the 2006 offseason, it was assumed that Zaun would be exploring free agency as signing Barajas would mean Zaun would be maintained as a backup. Meanwhile, negotiations between Zaun and the club deteriorated, as Zaun claimed that the Jays offered "slightly better than back-up money for playing every day". Negotiations with Barajas went as far as an offer conditional on a routine physical, but eventually fell apart for undisclosed reasons. After turning down a reported $6.5 million two-year offer from the Blue Jays a week earlier, Zaun officially accepted a two-year, $7.25 million contract offer to return to the Blue Jays as their starting catcher on November 28, 2006. The new contract deal also included a third-year option, guaranteed based on appearances. The signing came after Zaun was rumored to have been courted by the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees, both in backup roles.

Arguably his most famous play with the Jays was hitting a game-winning grand slam in the bottom of the 13th inning off of Tampa Bay Rays closer Troy Percival, on September 6, 2008, with two outs in the inning, wiping out the Rays, 7–4. Zaun hit only the second game-winning grand slam in Jays history but it was the first that occurred in extra innings, and even more spectacular was that his team was losing at the time, due to an RBI single by Dioner Navarro to put the Rays up, 4–3, before the slam at the top of the 13th.

On January 22, 2009, Zaun signed a one-year deal with the Baltimore Orioles.

Zaun was claimed off waivers by the Tampa Bay Rays GM Andrew Friedman in exchange for Rhyne Hughes on August 7, 2009. On August 16, Zaun hit a pinch hit grand slam home run against his old team, the Blue Jays, in the eighth inning off Brandon League on a 3–2 fastball. On November 12, 2009, Zaun was granted free agency.

On December 4, 2009, Zaun signed a one-year contract with the Milwaukee Brewers for $1.9 million. After suffering a severe injury, Zaun's 2010 season—and, as it turned out, his MLB career, ended on May 20. After the season, Milwaukee declined his contract option, and he became a free agent on November 2.

In January, Zaun signed a minor league deal with the San Diego Padres, with an invitation to spring training. However, noting that he still had not recovered from his previous injury enough to play regularly, he chose to retire on March 7, 2011.

Mitchell Report
In 2007, Zaun was included in the Mitchell Report following a 20-month investigation into the use of performance-enhancing drugs by former Senator George Mitchell. In the report, Kirk Radomski claimed he sold Deca-Durabolin and Winstrol to Zaun in 2001, after a referral from Jason Grimsley. Radomski produced a cheque from Zaun for $500. Mitchell also explained that former Montreal Expos bullpen catcher Luis Perez claimed to have supplied Zaun with steroids in 2002. Zaun declined to be interviewed for the report.

On February 15, 2008, Zaun responded in detail to the allegations made in the report after issuing a denial as soon as it came out. Zaun vehemently denied taking performance-enhancing drugs, stating that he owed Grimsley $500 and that Grimsley re-wrote the cheque to purchase drugs for himself. Zaun explained, "I can say, with 100% certainty, that the cheque was not to buy performance-enhancing drugs. It's obvious to me what parts of the cheque are my writing".

Broadcasting career
Zaun started his broadcasting career after the Blue Jays closed out their 2006 season. Throughout the playoffs, Zaun would offer his thoughts on how the teams and players were doing, and how he thought they could improve.

After his retirement, on March 14, 2011, Zaun signed a two-year contract with Rogers Sportsnet to become their studio MLB analyst. He also served as a part-time analyst on Sportsnet Radio Fan 590 and the Blue Jays Radio Network. As part of his duties he blogged on his website 'zauntourage.com' (now defunct).

On May 10–11, 2011 Zaun filled in as the color commentator on the NESN broadcast of a Red Sox series against the Blue Jays when the normal broadcaster, Jerry Remy was ill.

Firing
On November 30, 2017, Rogers Communications announced Zaun's employment had been terminated after an investigation into complaints of improper conduct from several female employees. Zaun issued an apology in response to the allegations on December 4.

Glacier Range Riders
On March 30, 2023, Zaun was hired to serve as the catching/hitting instructor for the Glacier Range Riders of the Pioneer League.

Lexington Legends
On February 21, 2024, Zaun was announced as the manager for the Lexington Legends of the Atlantic League of Professional Baseball.

Post-baseball activities
Since getting fired from Sportsnet, Zaun resides in the Cleveland area. He keeps a low profile, doing podcasts and blogs and conducting youth-baseball clinics in the area. He is training as a boxer and has participated in one charity boxing match.

title: Gregg Zaun


text:
Lents (crater)

Lents is a small lunar impact crater on the far side of the Moon. It is located within the north-northwestern section of the immense skirt of ejecta that surrounds the Mare Orientale impact basin. To the south is the Montes Cordillera mountain ring, and to the north-northeast is the damaged crater Elvey.

This is a bowl-shaped formation with an interior floor that is about half the diameter of the crater. Attached to the northeastern exterior of Lents is the satellite crater Lents C, a feature of roughly the same dimension. Slightly more than a crater diameter to the east of Lents C is Pierazzo, which produced a broad, wispy ray system that extends for more than 100 km in all directions. The ray material from this impact lies across both Lents C and Lents, reaching as far north as Elvey.

On some maps, Lents is called Lenz.

Satellite craters
By convention these features are identified on lunar maps by placing the letter on the side of the crater midpoint that is closest to Lents.

title: Lents (crater)


text:
Talk:Holmes (surname)

Request move

 * Support. – AxSkov ( T ) 09:29, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Alright, holmes...
I've heard it quite a lot in Johnny Rocketfingers and now in Tony Hawk's American Wasteland and other places despicting this kind of slanguish talk. Calling everyone either punk or holmes... Dunno if this is relevant... 200.230.213.152 21:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

TOC
Needs a better one. Rich Farmbrough, 00:56 1 November 2007 (GMT).
 * Have you considered Template:Compact ToC? Also it is in alpha order but I would have preferred logical. However, we can't have it both ways. If you know the first name you can find the article, but if you do not, the logical structure is much easier to use.Dave (talk) 00:50, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Doctor Cyril Henry Holmes
Doctor Cyril Henry Holmes father was clement Holmes born Lancashire. C.H. Holmes was a forester, PhD in horticulture. Travelled advising on forestation. Did much to improve and regenerate forests globally. 2.24.247.40 (talk) 14:07, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Holmes (surname)


text:
User talk:Froth

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Trademark clarification
re this: Thanks! I knew of the concept but not that we had an article on it. Daniel Case (talk) 16:45, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia talk:Reference desk/colors
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MfD nomination of Reference Desk subpages
Several subpages of Reference Desk that you've created have been nominated for deletion. Join the discussion at Miscellany for deletion/Obsolete Reference desk subpages. —andrybak (talk) 19:16, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Rdconfigarray
Template:Rdconfigarray has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. —andrybak (talk) 17:49, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

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title: User talk:Froth


text:
User talk:AbhimanyuDas

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Steve block 10:52, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:AbhimanyuDas