text:
Talk:USS Midway (CV-41)

USS Midway - Queen of the Seven Seas
Hi everyone, I recently added the nickname "Queen of the Seven Seas" to the infobar citing this website: http://www.netmeister.net/~cpaige/12USSMIDWAY.htm. A fellow editor reverted the changes citing this website as an unreliable source, a decision I can understand given self published sources like this aren't usually allowed on Wikipedia. However, I will posit this is one of the very few times a self published source can be cited. According to WP:SELFPUB, self published sources are allowed to be used as a source of information about themselves, usually in articles about themselves or their activities. In this case, the site is an autobiography from a former USS Midway sailor and talks about his experiences/recollections of his time in service. That would satisfy that requirement as the source about themselves and their activities (accepting that the sailors of a ship can be thought of as a part of it for the purposes of the article), as he is speaking about a nickname himself and Midway sailors used during their time aboard.

The source/citation also satisfies the other five requirements for acceptability:
 * the material is neither unduly self-serving nor an exceptional claim (plenty of ships have nicknames, and Queen of the Seven Seas isn't a particularly outrageous one considering Midway's sister ships had nicknames like The Ageless Warrior)
 * it does not involve claims about third parties (the source is only speaking about a nickname he and others around him used)
 * it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the source (the source is only speaking about things he directly participated in or observed)
 * there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity (by all accounts the source seems to present a reasonable story about a sailor who served onboard the Midway in the 1970s)
 * the article is not based primarily on such sources (there are many good, reliable sources for the other parts of the article)

For fairly understandable reasons ship nicknames aren't typically recorded in official sources, and secondary sources tend to skip over them. But having the nickname provides a neat bit of historical triva and adds a window into the time the Midway was one of the largest, most powerul warships afloat. Voteins (talk) 00:35, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Performance
During a tour of the Midway museum in 2010, I had a private conversation with the tour guide who was resident in the engine room. I explained that a vessel with over 200,000 s.h.p. and relatively efficient hydrodynamics like the Midway must be capable of speed in excess of the official claim of approx. 33 knots or so. Since weight is not a factor in top speed, I explained how according to a FOI request the S.S. United States was capable of approx. 50 miles per hour. and that the Midway should be about the same. Both vessels have about the same length to beam ratio which is a critical determinant of potential speed. The guide quietly acknowledged that the Midway was indeed capable of speed well in excess of the claimed 33 knots and had performance at least on par with the S.S. United States vessel. Very interesting.

I know the military types who troll Wikipedia as supposedly disinterested civilians or industry experts may come up with all sorts of b.s. to dispute this. The point I am making is that informed individuals like myself know the technical truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.240.174.71 (talk) 16:13, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

It is a serious blunder to say the Midway was the largest ship in the world. The Cunard liner Queen Elizabeth was nearly twice the tonnage and longer. Maybe the writer meant largest warship, but even that is doubtful. The Iowa class battleships were rated at 45,000 tons as was the British Vanguard. Roryjohnston (talk) 07:10, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Collision?
When I toured the Midway museaum in February 2008, there was quite a bit of information about a collision she had at sea with another vessel. I wish I remembered more about it, because it would be nice to include this information in the entry. I'll add this if I can find some online sources about it... Otherwise, someone with direct knowledge about this ... feel free to add this. --Spiff666 (talk) 14:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That was the Cactus. I added information about that collision, along with a reference.  If you find more material/references, please add it in.  More references are better. Johntex\talk 15:51, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

In Oakland
Midway was actually in Oakland for longer than a week, en route to San Diego. I lived nearby and seem to remember it was closer to 2 months. Local news accounts said the ship was being painted. Offically, no tours were given, though I heard someone claim they got aboard one day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.175.225.5 (talk • contribs) 14:03, 2005 July 25

GAMESPoT 09:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC) I was on the Midway Voyage Home cruse as a Tiger. The Midway did not stop at any port from Seattle to San Diego. If it went to any other port, it was before/after the Seattle/San Diego leg.

To add to the trip, It was a week long. A day out from San Diego, Colin Powell came in on a blackhawk. We were treated to an ops demo. Flight deck ops, Flybys of fueling, chopper ops. An Intruder made a mile long wall of water droppining bombs. A F-14 from Mirmar did a mach flyby.

Upon docking, we went to the same pier the ship sits at now.

Unconfermed - According to my cousin, whos father was a chief on the ship, the Seattle San diego tiger Cruse was supposed to be on the USS Enterprise. But the hearsay is that there was a fire aboard and Enterprise took a little too much damage to make the cruse.

Engines?
How was Midway powered? Dan100 (Talk) 11:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Almost everyting built in WWII was an oil fired boiler and steam turbine. And if you look at her class page, steam turbine is listed although not coal vs. oil.  --J Clear 01:13, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

 * 12 Babcock & Wilson oil-fired boilers providing steam at 600 psi to Westinghouse steam turbines driving 4 screws; rated at 212,000 shp. By comparison, Iowa-class battleships New Jersey and Wisconsin were powered by 8 boilers from the same manufacturer, also providing 600 psi steam to Westinghouse turbines driving 4 screws; same shp rating. Kablammo 01:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The boilers were Babcock & Wilcox (B&W) not Babcock & Wilson. Tjlynnjr (talk) 21:49, 30 July 2014 (UTC).
 * The 12 boilers on board the CVB-41 were Foster Wheelers, not Babcock & Wilcox (https://casetext.com/case/hilt-v-foster-wheeler-llc)(https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/399-uss-midway-cv-41/).
 * And Babcock & Wilcox on board CVB-42 and CVB-43. Conforoa (talk) 17:24, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

armament on uss midway
i just vistied the midway in san diego 15 mar 08 and saw some posters that stated she had 5" 54cal guns. 5"54 guns wer'ent introduce until the 1950's and first employed on uss northhampton clc1. The midway had 5"38cal single dp mounts not 5"54cal.

just a little clarification

thanks larry —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.80.147.11 (talk) 02:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Larry- my apologies, but the Midway class, as designed and launched, were completed with 5"54 cal guns. There are numerous references on the web for this, including http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_Gun_Nomenclature.htm

The Midways were the among the first ships to use the new gun.

Examination of photos of Midway class 5" guns will show a barrel length clearly longer than that of the 5"38 cal- a dead giveaway of the longer (larger) caliber.

The proposed but never built Montana class of batleships were designed with a twin barrel version of the 5"54 cal gun.

On a related note- The Midway and Franklin D. Roosevelt were launched with quad 40mm guns as the tertiary armament-the 3"50 cal guns were not ready until 1947. Coral Sea was launched without tertiary guns and had her 3 inch guns added in 1947.

Thank you

205.181.102.108 (talk) 15:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)John M.

 * Considering the photos of the CVB-41 in 1945 and 1946 the guns on board were indeed 127/54 mm different from usual model for proof the presence of mk.12/32 fire controls and not yet mk.25 mod.3 (https://www.seaforces.org/usnships/cv/CV-41-USS-Midway-2.htm) Conforoa (talk) 17:29, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Homeport / Return to Vietnam / Japan
Last paragraph of the section "return to Vietnam" mentions her change of homeport to Japan. No mention of what homeport was beforehand. I suggest this paragraph become a new section and add information on where here homeport was before and after that. 74.214.39.190 (talk) 22:39, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Historically - I believe once homeported in japan - that remained her homeport essentially until decommissioned. She probably technically changed homeport briefly before decomissioning. - Actually reread article - I'd Guess Homeport in Norfolk VA until 1955, her 1954 World Cruise may have been a preplanned part of the homeport change to Alemeda, CA. This section implies formal change of homeport occurred in 1973. Wfoj3 (talk) 11:29, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

What happened to all the information regarding refits?
At one time, this article covered the refitting of this ship including the teething problems of them. What happened to this information? In some of it, it did not paint the Midway in the best light as a military ship. Things like the ship's stability in rough seas were brought up with it. It is all a matter of historical fact and record, and it is important information about this aircraft carrier where some refit issues led to additional refits to address them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.31.94.77 (talk) 18:02, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Visiting the USS Midway
There are 725 attending the annual SAS (computer software) users group in the pharmaceutical industry annual meeting here in San Diego. Tomorrow, after our sessions, we will visit the USS Midway as guests of http://www.PharmaSUG.org and will really enjoy the evening. Thanks for this Wikipedia article and I'll tell everyone to visit here. Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 05:20, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Formatting Quote?
The the presidential citation quote has drifted out of the right subsection, any ideas? Jbaer50 (talk) 16:56, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Montana/Midway connection is unsourced
Both the Montana and Midway articles have a statement that Midway design was based on Montana battleship hull design and this information is unsourced in both articles. IN addition, I have never encountered this as a verifiable statement in any of the standard references from contemporary to current, neither Jane's, Fahey, Polmar, Garzke & Dulin, and Friedman; nor do I recall ever encountering this statement until the internet era. The hull dimensions are different - Midway is 10 feet longer on waterline but more significantly 8 feet less beam; the machinery arrangement is similar but Midway based on the booklet of general plans at hnsa.org appears to have a fuller form forward, as well. Unless a reliable source can be found that confirms the statement I recommend it be removed from both articles (I have placed a similar discussion on the Montana class talk page as well). Brooksindy (talk) 01:29, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Operation Desert Storm
Other unreferenced sources say a principle advantage of Midway's deployment in the Persian Gulf was her tighter turning radius compared to newer carriers, when operating to generate higher "wind over the deck" speed. I don't find any mention of this, or how this greater maneuverability resulted from the class-design choices. 71.230.16.111 (talk) 08:14, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:USS Midway (CV-41)


text: User talk:81.196.233.20

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:81.196.233.20


text:
Talk:Royal National Lifeboat Institution

St Davids
It has been proposed that St Davids Lifeboat Station (a stub) be merged here. I'm not in favour of that, otherwise the same argument could be made for many other stations; however, I can't find a discussion page on the proposed merger ("Discuss" links here). I will have a go at writing up the article Tony Holkham (talk) 14:15, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

 * It really comes down to whether there are enough independent sources to support a stand alone article on St. Davids (or any other specific station)... ie does the specific station pass our WP:Notability guideline. I would say that every lifeboat station is noteworthy (ie they merit being mentioned somewhere in Wikipedia)... but I am less sure that every station will have the level of source coverage needed to pass the guideline.  Perhaps a List of RNLI lifeboat stations would be a viable option? Blueboar (talk) 14:45, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

 * I do take your point, Blueboar. Maybe there is a case for an article covering, say, Lifeboat stations in Wales (there is List of RNLI stations, split into the RNLI's divisions), where there aren't enough independent sources to make a decent article for an individual station. However, having worked for the RNLI in the past, I know there is a huge following of the Institution both nationally and locally, and it's likely that many people will look on Wikipedia for information. I have to say, without wishing to be too critical, that the RNLI's main website is a bit of a navigational headache and many stations have their own sites.

 * I'll see what I can find source-wise on this station and we can keep the question open. Does that sound ok? Tony Holkham (talk) 15:08, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Fly-by tagging at it's best. Could it be improved & expanded, absolutely, however just because it's a stub doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. - Happysailor  (Talk) 15:38, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, Absolutely... nothing wrong with stubs as long as they can be expanded. If there is a huge following, then there should be independent sources out there that will allow you to do so... you just have to find them (ie look beyond the RNLI's website). My only point was to say that, if it turns out that we can't find sources to support a stand alone article on a particular station, its not the end of the world.  Wikipedia can still include it... we simply have to do so in the context of a related article.  Blueboar (talk) 23:58, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Understood. Written what I can from 'the horse's mouth', and tomorrow will be on the hunt for independent sources. Can I delete the merge tag or does it have to be done by a certain process? Cheers, Tony Holkham (talk) 00:06, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Against merger. Where a station has significant history of its own it should quite clearly have its own page, such as at Tenby Lifeboat Station or Cardigan Lifeboat Station, and most of the others in the Lifeboat Stations in Wales template.  Although the merger suggestion is very recent (about 10 days old), given the work you've done to take this out of stub-category, I think the merger request can now be deleted. Hogyn Lleol (talk) 08:41, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Reorganise sections?
May I make some suggestions about layout? What do others think? Sorry if I'm treading on anyone's toes. NB I don't have an 'interest' in the RNLI other than as a member and former freelance writer. Tony Holkham (talk) 14:28, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The lead seems a little heavy on text and has a lot of info not elsewhere in the article
 * History might be better titled Origins or Early history
 * In action contains a great deal of history, so might be better called History, to include subsections Dunkirk and Losses
 * New section perhaps Current operations to include current activities (lifeboats, lifeguards, flood rescue, combined disaster exercises, etc) and, more importantly, some of the information that makes the lead a bit heavy
 * New section or subsection Funding could including bequests (a major source of income), public collections, station-specific fundraising groups, levels of adult and child membership, local and national (SOS) "lifeboat days", corporate funding activities and philanthropic lifeboat-specific fundraising organisations
 * New section or subsection Salvage - often a contentious issue (in the public mind) and one that comes up in the news from time to time, sometimes inaccurately
 * New section or subsection Publications (eg Lifeboat Magazine, Compass and several others, as well as their website)
 * Roll of honour and Famous lifeboat-saviours might be more appropriate as subsections under history?

 * ✅ You're absolutely right about the over-heavy lead section. Your suggestions sound a considerable improvement; I'd go for it if you have time.  By the way, I'm going to remove the citations-needed tag at the top; the tag is 3 years old, and most paragraphs are now adequately referenced.  Hogyn Lleol (talk) 15:02, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm starting the process today of simplifying the lead and reorganising sections into what I hope is a more logical order, so the table of contents should reflect this. I have not removed or significantly altered any content at this stage. There are some new sections which will need filling, and I hope to tackle these in the next few days, but please contribute where you can. Ta - Tony Holkham (talk) 10:12, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Citation problems
A - Can anyone provide full titles for references 10 to 14 so the citations can be listed properly?

B - I know many citations rely on the RNLI's own web pages, so if anyone can provide corroborative independent citations, please do (or give the links here and I'll be happy to add them)

C - Does anyone have a link to the latest (2013) stats for callouts, funding, etc? I could probably find it, but someone may already know. Thanks, all...Tony Holkham (talk) 19:08, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Found it and updated article Tony Holkham (talk) 09:28, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Lifeguards
This section looks like it could usefully be expanded. History, stations, training, equipment, images etc. SovalValtos (talk) 04:24, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

 * By all means, but if you have a lot of information that you want to put in, would it be better to create a separate article as has been done with Royal National Lifeboat Institution lifeboats and List of RNLI stations? This article is quite complex already, and I have been trying to trim it. Tony Holkham (talk) 12:46, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Losses
When I have finished transferring all the information in this sub-section to List of Lifeboat Disasters in the British Isles (which needs considerable updating) I propose deleting the list of losses from the RNLI article as the List of Disasters will be a more comprehensive resource. Some of the incidents weren't specific to RNLI lifeboats anyway, so the list is a bit confusing, and the article needs slimming down.

I'll leave it a while in case anyone has any comments. Cheers, Tony Holkham (talk) 19:43, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Gallery - removal?
I propose removing the Gallery of pictures as per the template above them. I've checked, and they are all on Wikimedia Commons, so the Commons link should be enough. Any objections? Tony Holkham (talk) 23:37, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Done - 1 June 2014 Tony Holkham (talk) 14:38, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Flood Rescue Teams
The only ref seems to come from the RNLI itself.SovalValtos (talk) 21:06, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that's OK - it's a published, non-commercial source, and I haven't found anything better. Not a reason to remove, IMO. Tony Holkham (talk) 21:43, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Dunkirk evacuation
As there is already a reference to the main article Little_ships_of_Dunkirk, I propose reducing this section of the RNLI article (first checking all the info is in the linked article/s) by creating a table giving bare details and links. It is an important part of the RNLI's history, but perhaps shouldn't be given such undue weight. Any comments? Tony Holkham (talk) 10:56, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the boats taken by their own crews should still be written about in the article. Add the Clacton on Sea boat and others if sources confirm. Otherwise a table should do as it was a requisitioning of equipment by the Navy, rather than RNLI operation. SovalValtos (talk) 11:11, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Wholeheartedly agree Ramsgate & Margate info should be in there. Didn't know about Clacton. Tony Holkham (talk) 12:00, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I saw Clacton crewing on the page Little ships of Dunkirk SovalValtos (talk) 12:38, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The Clacton station's own website says the lifeboat was under Admiralty control, and doesn't specifically say whether the crew went with her to Dunkirk. It's an open question until we can find some definite source. The flag flown by the lifeboat at Dunkirk was presented to the station by the son of a 1940 crewman, which itself is ambiguous, unless I'm reading it wrong. Tony Holkham (talk) 15:55, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * This forum makes very interesting reading. Tony Holkham (talk) 16:19, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

 * ... and this website says Clacton was RN-crewed. Tony Holkham (talk) 16:24, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

 * ... and more conflicting info on this website. We we ever know the truth? Tony Holkham (talk) 16:29, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The KSH forum will need careful use and consideration of its reliability. I have not read it all. SovalValtos (talk) 10:57, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed - it merely states the information is "Taken from the RNLI Records of Service 1939-1946". Tony Holkham (talk) 11:10, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Suggest archiving
I suggest everything on this talk page up to the end of 2013 be archived as the page is heavy with old and mostly resolved discussions. Any comments? Tony Holkham (talk) 13:04, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * No objection SovalValtos (talk) 15:04, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ Tony Holkham (talk) 13:23, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Grace Darling
I know it may seem pedantic, but (correct me if I'm wrong) Grace Darling's heroic act was nothing to do with the RNLI, so I propose deleting reference to her in the notable lifeboat-saviours subsection. She has her own article, so I suggest adding her to the See also list as a compromise (sort of!). Any comments? Tony Holkham (talk) 20:54, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Not pedantic at all, rigorous editing is what is needed. No compromises other than consensus. No objection to her being in see also.SovalValtos (talk) 02:31, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * However she and her father war both awarded a silver medal for their lifesaving bravery by (what became) the RNLI.Cloptonson (talk) 08:04, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Clarifications
"Bronze medals were awarded from 1917." Does this mean they were awarded for a time and then the practice ceased, or are they still awarded? "Frederick Carter (11) who with Frank Perry (16) was awarded a Silver Medal " one between two or one each? SovalValtos (talk) 15:56, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Y-boats are mentioned only in passing. More needs to be said. SovalValtos (talk) 16:09, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I can't find a citation for Carter and Perry, but I will look for one. Medals are individual, so it's likely they were each awarded one. Bronze medals are still awarded today as far as I know. There is an article Y-class lifeboat and also Royal National Lifeboat Institution lifeboats so I don't think the RNLI article needs to go into much detail. Tony Holkham (talk) 16:19, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The RNLI's fact sheet says Dorset. I'll look into it. Tony Holkham (talk) 16:26, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * What is the Bridge simulator at Poole? Is it similar to an aircraft links trainer?SovalValtos (talk) 16:24, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Here is a link to the simulator which doesn't tell you much more. Tony Holkham (talk) 16:34, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * It does help, as it suggests that it is a vessel's bridge being simulated rather than one over a river! Some of us are a bit dim.SovalValtos (talk) 16:47, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Not dim at all - I can understand the confusion, as one whose techno-grasp is a little advanced from scissors and well short of a deck chair. :-) Tony Holkham (talk) 19:22, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Interactions with allied services
Might it be useful to add a little, if only a link? There are independent as well as public air sea rescue operations. See http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/AAIB%20Bulletin%2010-2014.pdf which although off topic might be a useful link in to the subject. SovalValtos (talk) 16:01, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The AAIB has its own article. So does the MAIB which is more relevant, and worth adding to "See also", maybe. The RNLI also takes part in multi-service simulated disaster exercises, such as one in the Thames estuary in recent years (can't remember exactly when). Tony Holkham (talk) 16:47, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Current operations could have the independent Air sea rescue operators added. It was their existence which the link gave evidence of; though whether there are any others than the one mentioned I do not know.SovalValtos (talk) 21:34, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * If you would add an appropriate subsection and reference it would all become clear as at the moment I'm not sure what is needed. Does participation with other services come under RNLI operations? Forgive me if that's a vague response, but I'm a bit in the dark on this one. Tony Holkham (talk) 20:34, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the surprise I got from finding there were independent air sea rescue organisations, and the association I made with RNLI and indepentents has lead me off topic. I am quite happy to drop the idea.SovalValtos (talk) 14:15, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

Lead
IMO the lead has become too long and detailed, and material should be moved to the body and the lead re-written. I will try to help but not immediately in case others differ.SovalValtos (talk) 01:06, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, It needs attention. Why was the "British Isles" term introduced a year ago?  It is a long time since it was used by the RNLI.  Also, In Ireland, the independents are know as "Community Rescue Boats" - see  - Lugnad (talk) 01:51, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you User:Lugnad Having only just now read the 'Reorganise Sections' section above, I see that there was agreement by User:Hogyn Lleol with User:Tony Holkham in May 2014 that the lead was text heavy. I expect some work was done at the time but IMO more needs doing now.
 * As far as the comment about CRBI; as far as I can tell CRBI is a group of some of the Independents in Ireland but the majority are not in that group and not known as CRBs so Independent lifeboats (British Isles) is the best catch all term.SovalValtos (talk) 07:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My view is that the lead is about right (I would say that...), and is a fair summary of the body of the article. I don't think it's too long, given the large amount of info in the article. Of course, improvements can always be made, but if it ain't broke...
 * When the 2014 annual report comes out (April, I think) changes will need to be made to operational and statistical info.
 * I don't see why independent lifeboats should be mentioned in the lead at all (unless as a See also), so no need to debate how they should be referred to. Tony Holkham (talk) 10:45, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree. It is about the RNLI, not lifeboats in general.  A change in Independent lifeboats (British Isles) is also needed.  Are we sure that "All independent services are funded privately"?  I need to check, but I recall mention of grant aid from government and county councils. Lugnad (talk) 14:58, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I have now trimmed the lead, but have not yet removed the refs through fear of damaging them. They only should be in the body of the article.SovalValtos (talk) 11:55, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Good editing. Cheers. Tony Holkham (talk) 12:41, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that User:Tony Holkham I was afraid I had turned your Swan into a bedraggled duckling in need of rescue.SovalValtos (talk) 12:53, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Not so; I hope I can always distinguish between WP:OAS. Sometimes one can get too close for proper perspective and it's useful to be reminded now and then. Tony Holkham (talk) 13:10, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

 * The lead now reads: "There are numerous other independent rescue services operating in the same area." What about boats of the Coast Guard?  They aren't "independent", nor connected with the RNLI. Lugnad (talk) 20:36, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

 * The line is in there because of the not uncommon misconception that the RNLI is the only lifeboat service. I've replaced the word rescue with lifeboat. Is this sufficient, do you think?  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  21:07, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You are correct, that misconception is out there. Should we drop the word "independent"? Lugnad (talk) 21:19, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  21:31, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * ta, very, cheers Lugnad (talk) 00:23, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Charities
It is simplistic to say the RNLI is one charity. There are several that are inter-related. See http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/SearchMatchList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=0&SubsidiaryNumber=0 for four in the UK and in Ireland 2678 R.N.L.I. Lifeboats Ireland (Royal National Lifeboat Institution) Airside Swords Co Dublin www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/charities. We should always be careful not to allow the somewhat misleading RNLI slogan "The RNLI is the charity that saves lives at sea" to pass without due weight being given to the other charities that do the same. I think the page is OK in that respect at present. SovalValtos (talk) 08:26, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You made two points:

 * Charity - there is one main RNLI charity in UK and one in Ireland - in other words, the RNLI is a (one) charity. The others are related, mainly to do with heritage (i.e. not connected with the day-to-day running of the RNLI). I don't think the article needs to explain this in detail, but a note could be added to the heritage section possibly.
 * Slogan - The RNLI does not have one - I asked. They say they do have a "purpose", which is the one in the infobox - to save lives at sea. They express this as "the charity that saves lives at sea", which we know is misleading in the wider search and rescue context, but that's what they say. I have made it clear in Search and rescue that the RNLI is not the only rescue service operating in Britain and Ireland.
 * Tony Holkham (talk) 12:19, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Funding - Government not mentioned
From this article, at this point in time: "The RNLI is principally funded by legacies (65%) and voluntary donations (28%), with the remainder from merchandising and investment."

I'm curious about the source on this. I was curious about government funding specifically, and I found this: "Our lifeboat service receives no UK government funding and less than 2% of the RNLI’s total funding comes from government sources."

The sentence from this article, using the word "remainder" seems to encompass all funding. It doesn't mention government, so it appears to be inconsistent with RNLI's FAQ. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orblivion (talk • contribs) 00:35, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Looking at the RNLI's financial review 2013 (ref 23, page 23), "Lifeguarding and other income" accounts for 2% of the income. I imagine this is what is meant in the ref you quote. Money for lifeguarding (which is mentioned in the article) would come from local government, but what the "other income" is, they don't say. The RNLI is clear that it receives no funding from the UK Government. They may receive money from foreign governments, since they sometimes offer training to foreign rescue services. I guess you could look into this further, but it seems a minor point. Cheers, Tony Holkham (talk) 00:56, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Criticism of CEO salary
Heads-up that user User:128.16.14.238 wants to include under the Criticism section that the RNLI's CEO has a larger salary than the Prime Minister (difference here). I have reverted twice and left an edit summary and a message on the user's talk page to explain why their edit is not appropriate.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  16:20, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

First female crew members
It may be of interest to include details about the first ILB and ALB female crew members. The suggested text is below:

"The RNLI accepted it's first female crew member in 1969.

Grace Darling is often misinterpreted as being a member of a lifeboat crew, however she was not. At her father's request, she assisted him to rescue people shipwrecked on one of the Farne Islands where William Darling was a lighthouse keeper.

The introduction of inshore lifeboats into the fleet in the early 1960s was the turning point on a tradition of male only lifeboat crews. Women soon proved there ability to handle these lighter weight inshore craft, and it was just over a decade before women also joined the all-weather lifeboat crews.

Elizabeth Hostvedt was the first female inshore lifeboat crew member to be accepted in 1969.

In 1981, Frances Glody became the first all-weather lifeboat crew member. She was accepted onto the Dunmore East crew on the Waveney class lifeboat St Patrick. Frances had already caused a stir when she was appointed as Pilot Station Master at Dunmore East, taking over from her father upon his retirement. She was following three generations of Glody men who had held the post."

Rainbowll22 (talk) 11:29, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * I think it would be a good idea to mention this in the article, though not perhaps in this much detail. There are some other examples, too. Would you like to add something, or would you like me to?  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  11:45, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the quick reply. Happy for you to add something. Rainbowll22 (talk) 12:00, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * I'd love to add a Women in the RNLI section - how would you all feel about this? Becky Steeden (talk) - 30.03.2016 12.40pm —Preceding undated comment added 11:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * I see you are both after the same addition. I will add something and we can develop from there. Perhaps we need a new article along the lines of "Lifeboatwomen"...  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  12:11, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * I have been beaten by User talk:Tony Holkham to supporting your idea. I think it may be easier to add it as a section in the article straightaway where it could then be edited by others, rather than trying to edit it here. Some assertions may need individual citing with page numbers from the book if that is the source being used. Edit conflicts as well. SovalValtos (talk) 12:13, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * We could include in this the first female station manager (got a feeling this was last year in Wales, but can't for the life of me remember which station), and the first all-female crew (in Wales, it was Cardigan Lifeboat Station). What was the station where Elizabeth Hostvedt served?  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  12:39, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Brilliant - thanks so much, Tony. I'll go ahead and create a 'Women in the RNLI' section on the main RNLI page and we'll go from there!

Becky Steeden (talk) 12:59, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * I've already done that, but feel free to edit as necessary.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  13:03, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * I've found a contradiction in Atlantic College Lifeboat Station regarding the first female crew member. Can anyone at RNLI resolve this?  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  13:17, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks Tony. Penelope M Sutton was recorded as the first woman to be involved in an emergency response. Elizabeth Hostvedt was the first woman to be accepted onto a lifeboat crew. More details here  Rainbowll22 (talk) 12:49, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * historypoints does not look like being a reliable source, being user generated.SovalValtos (talk) 13:09, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

GA nomination
I nominated this article for GA status last month and it is turning out to be quite a process. For the rationale behind recent changes (some minor, some structural), see Talk:Royal National Lifeboat Institution/GA1.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  10:49, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

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 * While I have checked all these and found them available on the archive system, they all need updating to live sources when time.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  15:09, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

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Criticism edits (29 Nov 2019)
Facebook, Twitter, and probably not even the Daily Mirror are, for Wikipedia, reliable sources. Fair criticism is justified, but needs to be rational and not knee-jerk.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  16:07, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

Describe operations before history?
It would be nice to have the Operations section before History to give a clear sense upfront of how it actually works (how do volunteer crews of this magnitude receive/respond to calls). Same would go for the lede. (not watching, please )  czar  04:35, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I am not against your proposal User:Czar but I think you need to give a fuller explanation of the reasons for your preference. Could you give the text you would prefer in the lead/lede?SovalValtos (talk) 05:40, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * & - The lead could be left as it is (it's a reasonable and readable summary of the institution), but sections moved around without causing confusion, as the contents list will always point the reader to whatever interests them most.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  11:24, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yep, mainly suggesting that those two named sections are swapped and to alter any text accordingly (any sequentially referential language, the lede, etc.) (not watching, please )  czar  04:17, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

World Wars
- have you not heard of WP:BRD? "Correct and official UK name"? What does that mean? You should have discussed it here.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  12:10, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

 * What I mean is that in the UK and the former Empire, the official name of those wars is the First World War and the Second World War. The same is true in most of the European countries that particpated, in their respective languages. World War I and World War II are lazy American usages. Emeraude (talk) 17:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

 * Whilst I do not think there is any such thing as 'the official name of those wars' the choice does seem to be a particular touchy point between US and English language adherents and as this is an English article the useages 'First World War and the Second World War' seem reasonable.SovalValtos (talk) 18:17, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

 * There is no case made for either, and there is no "official" name as far as I am aware. The BBC, the RNLI and indeed the Imperial War Museum have used either name, and I have never been aware of any "touchiness" across the pond. However, it's not a major issue, so I will be happy to leave it, though I think it is nit-picking.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  18:36, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Atlantic 21 Picture
Hi, please could someone remove the Atlantic 21 picture, as it is no longer an active lifeboat. Or, at least tell me how you delete it.

Thanks SHANNON13ALB (talk) 17:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Why do you SHANNON13ALB think it should be deleted because 'it is no longer an active lifeboat'? See WP:RECENTISM.SovalValtos (talk) 05:24, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Clarification wanted - RNLI and Ireland
It would be worth someone clarifying whether the present day RNLI operates out of stations around all Ireland or just from Northern Ireland (the remaining British territory on the isle). (I am not Ireland-resident.)Cloptonson (talk) 08:11, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Question answered - the list of RNLI stations shows there are stations on the coast of the Republic. I will make it clear in this page that Ireland in RNLI context does include it.Cloptonson (talk) 08:14, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Migrant crisis section
On the basis that Wikipedia is not a newspaper WP:NOTNEWS, I wonder if the new section will stand the test of time. Personally I'd like to remove it right now as I think the whole thing is a storm in a teacup, i.e. as today's newspaper it will be tomorrow's fish & chips wrapper. However, in the interests of building consensus, I'd love to hear what others think though. In the whole of the RNLI's history, does this one little incident merit any mention? 10mmsocket (talk) 15:50, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, ; in the grand scheme of things RNLI, I don't think it is significant, unless it should become more so, for some unknown reason, when it could be reconsidered.  Tony Holkham   (Talk)  16:05, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, I should say that it very much is a significant event in the charity's history. The RNLI has managed to remain apolitical to the extent - for example - that it is one of the few "British" organisations that survived Irish independence, and still operates in the Republic to this day. Farage attempted to politicise the RNLI's role, and the public response represents a clear rejection of his complaints. Nick Cooper (talk) 21:42, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

RNLI Medals
Maybe some folk think I put down any old rubbish, but I do try to add my contributions with some thought. So with regard to William Henry Tregidgo - when I corrected his name, which had been mis-spelled - I specifically added his location of service as Bude, etc, and not Bude, as he was not RNLI crew, and did not serve at the lifeboat station. More importantly, maybe there should be some explanation that many people who were not RNLI crew have been awarded medals, and I'm also wondering why his occupation has been deleted? MartinOjsyork (talk) 14:00, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Tregidgo is an example of how the lifeboat service has changed over the years. Many of the early boats were provided to a town but there was no regular crew. Reading the records of many early rescues shows that the local coastguard often used the institution's lifeboats to effect rescues.
 * 9 October 1853 - Tregidgo was coxswain of the Bude lifeboat with 3 coastguard and 8 others in the crew
 * 13 March 1858 - Coastguard rescue involving Tregidgo, no lifeboat involved
 * 26 October 1859 - Tregidgo took two boats out but not clear if either was an RNLI lifeboat
 * 18 November 1864 - Tregidgo received the thanks of the RNLI for a service in the Newquay lifeboat
 * The list on this page is headed Some other lifeboat crew who have received multiple medals include so shouldn't include non-lifeboat crews.
 * Perhaps we need a note to the effect that medals can be awarded to non-lifeboat crew too. Whatever we do, remember that this section is flagged as having a main article elsewhere, so this is just a taster and the main information should be in that article. Geof Sheppard (talk) 15:10, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Found another ref for Tregidgo, and it does look like Bude lifeboat is correct, but not Newquay. :o)
 * NB: His name is still wrong on separate Bude page.
 * I'm sure you will sort something!
 * best wishes MartinOjsyork (talk) 15:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Dutch Revolt

1574 Relief of Leiden
--Noahverel97 (talk) 22:07, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

I am working on a wikipedia article that does not exist yet. It will focus on a monument on the dyke at Capelle aan den IJssel which is one of four locations where William the Silent commanded the dykes to be destroyed in order to stop Spanish soldiers at Leiden. In the Dutch Revolt article there sadly is no mention of the Siege of Leiden as far as I can tell. Perhaps this should be added.

Dutch Revolt
The idea that this revolt came from the Northern Provincies is wrong. Many cities in Brabant and Flanders like Ghent, Doornik, Oostende formed the core of the early Protestant revolt that only later spread to the North. It is a myth that the North was more protestant than the South still believed by many in The Netherlands and Belgium. Centuries of seperation stand between historians that should speak the same Dutch language and should acknowledge the importance of the Southern struggle that resulted in the independance and wealth of the North. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.86.90.39 (talk) 15:42, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I have some small adjustments in the introduction to reflect this commentOda86 (talk) 14:12, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

The later phase of the Eighty Years War
This article extends further than what historians consider to be the Dutch Revolt. The war from 1568 until 1648 is The Eighty Years War, the early phases of which (and the years preceding it) are referred to as the Dutch Revolt. The phase after Twelve Years' Truce is no longer referred to as the Dutch Revolt. The south remained loyal to the Hapsburg and the north was already de facto independent. Hence, it is no longer a revolt. Dutch Revolt - Twelve Years' Truce (1609–1621) should be the final chapter of this article. Oda86 (talk) 14:23, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Revolt in the Southern Netherlands
This may be a difficult issue to resolve but the article focuses entirely on the revolt in the parts of The Netherlands that actually managed to become independent. No attention is paid to, for example, the calvinist republics of Bruges, Brussels and Ghent. Together with Antwerp, these cities were already in revolt at a time when Amsterdam was still resolutely loyal to Philips II. This is understandable because historiography in The Netherlands has spent more attention to this time period as it is considered the birth of their nation while for Belgium the resolution of the Dutch Revolt heralded a period of decline.

In general the English Wikipedia doesn't seem to have any information about these short lived republics nor does it pay much attention to revolt in the southern part. For those who understand Dutch, Calvinistische_republiek on the Dutch language Wikipedia might be a good start. I'm considering adding Template:Missing information to this page.Oda86 (talk) 15:13, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Little Ice Age should be mentioned
Little Ice Age and impact of baltic grain trade — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.183.106.57 (talk) 01:51, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dutch Revolt


text:
Mike Burstyn

Michael Burstein (מייק בורשטיין; born July 1, 1945) is an Israeli-American actor known onstage as Mike Burstyn. He was born in New York City to the late Yiddish-language actors, Pesach Burstein and Lillian Lux. His first cousin was Borsch Belt comedian, Jay Lester. Mike began performing on stage at Yiddish theaters from childhood, in musicals and melodramas produced by his father, Pesach Burstein, especially as part of the Four Bursteins. (Mike and his twin sister were billed as Motele and Zisele) in standard Pesach Burstein productions like A Khasene in Shtetl (A Wedding in the Village). He headed out on his own after reaching adulthood, in a bid to reach audiences bigger than the Yiddish stage.

He has performed on television in the United States, Israel, and the Netherlands. He has performed on Broadway, the Yiddish theater, and on the Israeli stage. He had his own show, De Mike Burstyn Show (1978–1981). He was cast as the lead in Israel Becker's The Flying Matchmaker, an Israeli film. In 1981, he took part in the Israeli heats of the Eurovision Song Contest with the song "Sviv kol ha'olam". The song was placed sixth.

Among his most noted roles in Yiddish theater was the part in his father's production of Itzik Manger's Songs of the Megillah (the longest running Yiddish production to date in Israel, released on Broadway as Megilla of Itzik Manger).

Burstyn appeared on Broadway in Barnum, where he succeeded Jim Dale in the title role. He was nominated for Drama Desk Awards for his performance as Mayer in The Rothschilds off-Broadway in 1990 and in On Second Avenue in 2005. In 2009, he starred in the title role of the stage adaption by Joseph Bologna's Lansky.

Personal life
Burstyn holds dual Israeli-American citizenship. The Komediant is a documentary recounting the lives and careers of the Burstein family.

title: Mike Burstyn


text:
Daniella Monet

Daniella Monet Gardner (née Zuvic; born March 1, 1989 ) is an American actress, entrepreneur, singer and television personality. Her early roles include Megan Kleinman on the CBS sitcom Listen Up (2004–05), Rebecca Martin on Nickelodeon's Zoey 101 (2006–07), and Inga Veinshtein in the mystery film Nancy Drew (2007). She had her breakthrough playing Trina Vega on Nickelodeon's Victorious (2010–2013), and continued to work extensively with the network, voicing Mitzi on Winx Club (2012) and playing Bertha in the Fred films and TV series (2011–2012). Her other film appearances include the independent features Taking Five (2007) and Aloha Surf Hotel (2020).

Monet is also known for television presenting. She hosted the sketch-comedy series AwesomenessTV (2013–2015), and the game show Paradise Run (2016–2018). She co-founded the vegan beauty brand Kinder Beauty.

Early life
Daniella Monet Zuvic was born in West Hills, California. Her father is of Chilean descent with Croatian and Spanish ancestry while her mother is of Italian descent. She has a brother, Mario Zuvic.

Career
In 2003, Monet had a recurring role on the NBC drama series American Dreams. Monet landed a recurring role on the ABC sitcom 8 Simple Rules as Missy Keinfield, Rory's love interest in the second season. She has a sister, Sissy (Elena Lyons), who likes C.J.. She was eventually cast as Megan Kleinman in the CBS short-lived sitcom Listen Up

She, along with Taylor Momsen and Miley Cyrus, the latter eventually winning the role, was one of the final three contenders for the lead role in Hannah Montana. She also guest-starred on Zoey 101 appearing in three episodes from 2006 to 2007. She also appeared in the 2010 film Simon Says and in the 2007 films Nancy Drew and Taking Five. From 2010 to 2013, Monet starred in the Nickelodeon comedy series Victorious as Trina Vega, the elder sister of Victoria Justice's Tori Vega and a fellow student of Hollywood Arts that has no talent and is described as "weird" and "annoying". She also replaced Jennette McCurdy as the character Bertha in Fred 2: Night of the Living Fred, Fred 3: Camp Fred and Fred: The Show.

Monet hosted a Nickelodeon sketch comedy reality series called AwesomenessTV that premiered July 1, 2013, but the show was cancelled after 2 seasons in 2015. It is transplanted from YouTube clips adding new material. Segments included character sketches, celebrity satires, and parody music videos. She also hosted the Nickelodeon game show Paradise Run from 2016 to 2018.

Personal life
Monet is a vegan.

In December 2017, Monet became engaged to Andrew Gardner after six years of dating. They married on December 29, 2022.

On April 3, 2019, the couple announced that they were expecting their first child. In September 2019, Monet gave birth to a son. In February 2021, Monet gave birth to a daughter.

title: Daniella Monet


text:
User talk:Mistercow

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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-Poli (talk • contribs) 22:04, 2005 July 25 (UTC)

Color correction?
Regardless of your personal feelings about a page, do not remove requests for unprotection, and certainly do not put blatant lies in your edit summaries. That's equivalent to vandalism.--Scimitar parley 21:51, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

My sincerest apologies, the blanking was a total accident, and I'm not sure how it happened. I never hit delete, so I have to assume it was a browser problem. As for blatant lies, there are none. My edit summary refers directly to the edit I made. And my personal feelings are irrelevant. I was merely linking to a bit of reformatting I had done on a protected page. Cheers, and Please remember WP:AGF. Mistercow 21:56, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Did you have an edit conflict by any chance? I just rechecked your edit, and what happened was you somehow deleted the earlier request while posting your comment (I only noticed the blanking, as I was reading it and when I came back it was gone). Sorry for jumping on you; I'm sure it was an accident.  All the best. --Scimitar parley 22:00, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

 * That's probably it. I checked the preview a few times to fix my link, and I must have missed the warning. I'll be more careful in the future. Mistercow 22:04, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Smacksoftruth on WP:WQA
Thanks for bringing the problem to the attention of WP:WQA, Mistercow. I have reviewed some of the edits made by Smacksoftruth and I have determined that the ones I looked at seemed to be done with a bit of POV slant. I left a NPOV user message on this user's talk page, and if he/she continues to make POV edits, please contact me on my talk page and I will try to convince the user to discuss potential changes before making edits and before the problem gets out of control. Thanks, JHMM13 (T | C)  05:38, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Gnostic Movement
I have some overall concerns about this article. Primarily the notablity of the subject matter. There are very few links from other sites to the external references, and often the primary links are only to each other. I am eliciting comments since you have edited on this page. See my comments on the talk page. Trödel 23:01, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Image:Hongxiuquan.jpg
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threaded code
The edit you recently made to threaded code was usually true, in isolation. Alas, I reverted that edit. I hope that Talk:Threaded_code explains why. --68.0.124.33 (talk) 01:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:Mistercow/Jesus format
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Notes to Self
Fix Federal Communications Commission

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title: User talk:Mistercow


text:
Talk:Lan Xang

Re-write with Sources
The entry lacks detail for the middle years of Lan Xang and doesn't place Khun Borom myth within context. I'll add some new sections to build out based on the available English language sources. Thanks--StampyElephant (talk) 01:12, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Etymology
It seems obvious that the name Lan Xang is derived from a former pronunciation of 萬象 in some Sinitic language.

While I don't know whether this is the actual etymology confirmed by scientific means, or whether it is a popular etymology, I think it should be mentioned in the article either way. Please add information if you know more about this. Wikipeditor 00:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Thinking about it, perhaps it is the other way round and the Chinese 象 comes from a South East Asian word, and lan may be totally unrelated to 萬. Wikipeditor 18:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I’m removing the reference since it’s unclear what relationship there is (if any) between ລ້ານຊ້າງ and 萬象. At the moment it implies the term is derived from Chinese which seems unlikely.  If anyone has something more concrete to add, here’s what I’m removing...

 * , from Sinitic 萬象 "vast number of elephants"

 * ☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 16:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I read your 10 May 2008 Talk:Lan_Xang comment, and indeed the numeral lan can also mean 'vast' or 'huge.' especially in Isan. To Rocket Festival in Yasothon, I added this that has yet to be challenged: Bang Fai come in various sizes, competing in several categories. Small ones are called Bang Fai Noi (Thai: น้อย). Larger categories are designated by the counting words for 10,000, 100,000 and 1,000,000: Meun (Thai: หมื่น) "Saen" (Thai: แสน) and the largest Bang Fai, the Lan (Thai: ล้าน). These counting words see use in many contexts to indicate increasing size or value. Lan in this context may be taken to mean extremely large as well as extremely expensive and extremely dangerous: Bang Fai Lan are nine metres long and charged with 120 kg of black powder. They haven't any since 1999. when one exploded, killing 11 and injuring more, and exposing Isan to ridicule. Isan Redshirts were also ridiculed for staging a "Million Man March" in Bangkok during the 2010 Thai political protests, when only huge numbers showed up. Lanna of the Million Fields was clearly playing one-up-man-ship with Sibsongphanna of a mere 12,000, Fah Ngum's son, when he changed his name to Samsenthai (300,000 thai, to spite "Sipsong Chu (Chao) Thaij" the "Twelve Thai Chiefs. Huh! Huh (god) hieroglyph also represents one million, or infinity, and he is the 'god of millions of years.'

As for the elephants, romanization "Xang" indicates a Thai etymology, and has been changed to "Sang."—Pawyilee (talk) 10:35, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Statements needing clarification

 * Muang Sua was the first kingdom established by the Tai in Khmer territory.

The Muang Sua article seems to imply it was taken from the king of Nanzhao, not the Khmer.

 * The next six years (1362-68), however, were troubled by religious conflict between Fa Ngum's lamaistic Buddhism and the region's traditional Theravada Buddhism. He severely repressed popular agitation that had anti-Mongol overtones and had many pagodas torn down.

"Lamaistic" sounds like a dubious term for Mahayana. The Fa Ngum article simply concludes...

 * Fa Ngum introduced Theravada Buddhism into the area.

☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 18:14, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Revert: 10:21, 25 June 2008
Before making a drastic change to the text that conflicts with the primary source, please provide some sources yourself. Logging in might be nice too. ☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 00:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Reverting anon edit of 1 November 2009
Someone added this to the References section on 1 November. 17 days later, someone else made some minor fixes. But clearly it's completely unencyclopedic, and needs to be removed, so I'm doing that. Here's the removed content:

 * The one from Wiki about Lan Xang is more like a siamese propaganda version. There are so many mistakes in the article.
 * 1/ In 1359 the Khmer king gave the Pra Bang to his son-in-law, the first Lan Xang monarch Fa Ngum (1353-1373). His Khmer wife was instrumental in welcoming a religious and artistic mission that brought with it a statue of the Buddha, the Phra Bang,  Not his Ayutthaya wife. In 1368 Fa Ngum's Khmer wife died.
 * 2/ Oun Heuan Fah Ngum's son, Half Khmer/Lao changed his name to Samsenthai (300 thousands thai), Samsenthai never paid tribune to Ayuttaya.  Laos lanxang was in its strongest period.    300 years later when Lanxang was in declined, that when tribune started.
 * 3/ True, that The kingdom, made up of Lao, Thai, and various ethnic hill tribes, lasted in its approximate borders for another 300 years and briefly reached an even greater extent in the northwest.
 * 4/ True, Fa Ngum's descendants remained on the throne at Luang Prabang for almost 600 years after his death, maintaining the independence of Lan Xang to the end of the 17th century through a complex network of vassal relations with lesser princes. At the same time, these rulers fought off invasions from Vietnam (1478-79), Siam (1536), and Burma (1571-1621).
 * 3/ True, that The kingdom, made up of Lao, Thai, and various ethnic hill tribes, lasted in its approximate borders for another 300 years and briefly reached an even greater extent in the northwest.
 * 4/ True, Fa Ngum's descendants remained on the throne at Luang Prabang for almost 600 years after his death, maintaining the independence of Lan Xang to the end of the 17th century through a complex network of vassal relations with lesser princes. At the same time, these rulers fought off invasions from Vietnam (1478-79), Siam (1536), and Burma (1571-1621).
 * 4/ True, Fa Ngum's descendants remained on the throne at Luang Prabang for almost 600 years after his death, maintaining the independence of Lan Xang to the end of the 17th century through a complex network of vassal relations with lesser princes. At the same time, these rulers fought off invasions from Vietnam (1478-79), Siam (1536), and Burma (1571-1621).
 * 4/ True, Fa Ngum's descendants remained on the throne at Luang Prabang for almost 600 years after his death, maintaining the independence of Lan Xang to the end of the 17th century through a complex network of vassal relations with lesser princes. At the same time, these rulers fought off invasions from Vietnam (1478-79), Siam (1536), and Burma (1571-1621).

Some of the editor's points seem valid, and someone with more knowledge should make an effort to find citations and improve the article accordingly. But adding an argument against the wikipedia article to the References section of the article is obviously not the way to do it. --99.50.122.183 (talk) 14:02, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Alternative transliterations Lan Sang and Lane Sang derive from rules for romanization of Lao:
Consider moving paragraph on rules for romanization from lede to Notes section of McCarthy's account. --Pawyilee (talk) 15:52, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Edited and moved to ref group="note". --Pawyilee (talk) 12:45, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Romanization of Lang Xang
Lan Xang's present hatnote, lede [note 1] and McCarthy's account notes section need attention. These are the best I can do, and they include a link to romanization of Lao, though romanization of Lao immediately above the table might be better.

Both HN and McC [notes] have links to Lan Sang National Park, for dictionary definitions of "Lan" as used in the park and by McCarthy's Siamese commissioner. He defined his as "plain." I have no idea what it means in the park, but at Yasothon's Lan Nanaphan it once meant "plaza" and now means parking garage with adjacent shops and eats. Given the definitions for "Lan" as a linguistic modifier, the commissioner could have intended a deliberate insult.

Given the multiple definitions for the park's completely different word "Sang," you'd have to ask the one who named it what he had in mind. The commissioner did specify elephants, though not the animal but landscape features. Romanization of Lan Xang, BTW, uses differing standards: Lan per LC/RTGS and Xang per BGN/PCGN. I prefer it that way, as Lane would satisfy only sticklers for its French origin, and X seems to preserve Thai etymology (despite the Lao king's objection.) I infer the Lao once had no elephants, and adopted the Thai term with their own pronunciation, yet preserving the Thai tone. Other readers may infer the same if we leave it like it is.

X in Romanization of Lao links to the new X, where Talk:X lists all the X's I've found so far. I'd like to add [note 1] to a Notes section for all of them. —Pawyilee (talk) 03:34, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

— edited Pawyilee (talk) 05:56, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Religious conflict
Buddhism in Vietnam, both present-day and ancient, is very different from that of the rest of Southeast Asian Theravada Buddhism. The type of Buddhism the article says that King Fa Ngum introduced resembles that of the Vietnamese, while that to which he was exposed in the Khmer empire of his time was in the throes of adopting Theravada after a period of Shivaism, either in its pure Hindu form, or amalgamated with Buddhism. There certainly was a religious conflict in Lan Xang as there was ib the peninsula in general, but it likely involved throwing off Vietnamese red robes for saffron. --Pawyilee (talk) 14:32, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation hatnote for similar pronounciations removed
Why was this removed? —Pawyilee (talk) 05:16, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lan Xang


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Group nbt

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. – ABCD✉ 00:14, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Group nbt
It seems to be an advertisment for a company scope_creep 22:05, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: advertisement.-Poli (talk • contribs) 22:24, 2005 July 25 (UTC)
 * Copyvio, so I've tagged and bagged it. If it gives a website that it came from, it probably came from that website, so doesn't usually need to come here. -Splash 01:24, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


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User talk:Dergrosse

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Talk:Axel Enström (industrialist)

This page is now saved in JnanaBase, you can see it here: http://jnana.wikinerds.org/index.php/Axel_Enström -- NSK 22:05, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Deletion
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 16:37, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Axel Enström (industrialist)


text:
Riss glaciation

The Riss glaciation, Riss Glaciation, Riss ice age, Riss Ice Age, Riss glacial or Riss Glacial (Riß-Kaltzeit, Riß-Glazial, Riß-Komplex or (obsolete) Riß-Eiszeit) is the second youngest glaciation of the Pleistocene epoch in the traditional, quadripartite glacial classification of the Alps. The literature variously dates it to between about 300,000 to 130,000 years ago and 347,000 to 128,000 years ago. It coincides with the Saale glaciation of North Germany. The name goes back to Albrecht Penck and Eduard Brückner who named this cold period after the river Riss in Upper Swabia in their three-volume work Die Alpen im Eiszeitalter ("The Alps in the Ice Age") published between 1901 and 1909.

Boundaries and division
The Riss glaciation was defined by Penck and Brückner as the Lower (Niedere) or Younger Old Moraines and Old Terminal Moraines High Terraces (Jüngere Altmoränen und Alt-Endmoränen-Hochterrassen). The type locality lies near Biberach an der Riß where the end of the northeastern Rhine Glacier stood. Results gained from over a century of research show that in almost all glacial periods, several ice advances took place. Today it is thought that there were, in all, at least eight to fifteen ice advances. In the Riss stage, too, there were several advances of the ice sheet, so that it can be divided into interstadials (ice retreats) and stadials (ice advances), and at least one hitherto unnamed warm period.

The present-day division differs from the original Penck classification. The beginning of the Riss ice age, according to the 2002 Stratigraphic Table of Germany, was the end of the Holstein interglacial (known as the Mindel-Riss interglacial in the Alpine Foreland and corresponding to the Samerbe, Thalgut, Praclaux and La Côte). Its end is the start of the Eem interglacial (Riss-Würm interglacial). It is thus roughly contemporaneous with the Saale glaciation of the North German glacial sequence. The Riss is paralleled by MIS 6, 8 and 10, which would therefore place it about 350,000 and 120,000 years ago. Excluded from the Riss glaciation is the so-called Old Riss (Ältere Riß), the time of the greatest ice advance in the Alpine region: today it is referred to as the Haslach-Mindel complex (in Bavaria and Austria), Hoßkirch complex (in Baden-Württemberg) or Great Glaciation in Switzerland.

The classification of ice ages in Switzerland varies from that used in the Bavarian and Austrian Alpine Foreland. The glaciation complex between the end of the Holstein and the beginning of the Eem interglacials is referred to as the Penultimate Ice Age and the Great Glaciation. It is divided into two additional interstadials, the so-called Double Holstein Event of Meikirch (doppelte Holstein-Vorkommen von Meikirch), which is not identical, however, with the Holstein interglacial.

During the period of maximum glaciation, ancient man (Homo heidelbergensis – later the Neanderthals) retreated behind the permafrost boundary and, in the warmer periods, spread beyond it to the north and northeast. Not until the Weichsel-Würm ice age did modern Cro-Magnon man settle these regions, in about 40,000 BC.

Sequence and extent of the Riss glaciation
At the beginning of the Riss ice age almost all of today's Alpine river valleys were created. The glaciation of the Alps, even before the Holstein interglacial and towards the end of the major glaciations, resulted in glaciers advancing in several phases far into the Alpine Foreland, further than all other known ice sheet advances, and the main glaciers had established themselves along today's river valleys. During the Riss, glaciers advanced into the Bavarian and Austrian Alpine Foreland probably four times. The first two advances have not been confirmed with certainty because they are overlaid by the two stadials at the end of the Riss glaciation that extended well to the north.

The ice sheet advances of the cold period were mostly well beyond the glacial lake of the previous ice sheet. In most areas, the Riss terminal moraines have formed as low embankments, for example in the area of the Inn Glacier, the Isar-Loisach Glacier, the Iller Glacier, and in the area of the western Rhine Glacier. In the type region in Biberach there is a clear, but rather atypical double moraine ridge, also atypical is the double terrace here, which is probably due to heavy erosion as the meltwater runoff moved from the Wellheim Dry Valley and Altmühl valley into the present day Danube valley, a process that took place during the Riss glaciation. The double ridge of the type region (Doppelwallriß, with an outer and inner ridge) is a result of two superimposed sequences of glacial deposits which indicates that the Riss was subdivided into at least two stadials.

In the west the Rhône Glacier covered large parts of the Swiss Plateau and reached as far north as the northern Folded Jura and as far south as Lyon. To the northeast, it transitioned without any sharp demarcation into the Linth Glacier and Reuss - Aare Glacier; only the Napf area remaining ice-free. Further to the northeast, the Reuss-Aare Glacier combined with the Rhine glacier. This extended north beyond the present-day River Danube to the area of the Swabian Jura. In Bavaria, the Riss moraines form a little subdivided countryside without bogs and lakes, where they are not covered by the younger deposits of the Würm glaciation. The gravels associated with the Riss moraines form the present high terraces of the Danube tributaries.

During the Riss, the Salzach and Dachstein glaciers were somewhat smaller than during the Günz and Mindel glaciations, the latter extending in each case to the Hausruck and Kobernauß Forest ridge (subalpine molasse).

Literature

 * (3 volumes)
 * (3 volumes)
 * (3 volumes)

title: Riss glaciation


text:
User talk:JulianB

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User talk:Mcicogni

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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Cicognini
Sei di quei Cicognini, quelli di Orzi? --Zan Biedro 15:27, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Sì :-) Mauro Cicognini 10:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Re:Zb
Scusa il ritardo nella risposta, è un seccatore su it.wiki, se vuoi leggere qualcosa guarda qui, spesso scrive messaggi come quello che ti ha lasciato a suoi stessi sock, ciao --Vituzzu 13:36, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

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Talk:Falconet

Untitled
There is also a book called Falconet by Benjamin Disraeli. --Oop 22:07, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Also French sculptor: Étienne Maurice Falconet, I see a disambiguation page coming on. --DelftUser 17:34, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Falconet