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Projection screen

A projection screen is an installation consisting of a surface and a support structure used for displaying a projected image for the view of an audience. Projection screens may be permanently installed on a wall, as in a movie theater, mounted to or placed in a ceiling using a rollable projection surface that retracts into a casing (these can be motorized or manually operated), painted on a wall, or portable with tripod or floor rising models as in a conference room or other non-dedicated viewing space. Another popular type of portable screens are inflatable screens for outdoor movie screening (open-air cinema).

Uniformly white or grey screens are used almost exclusively as to avoid any discoloration to the image, while the most desired brightness of the screen depends on a number of variables, such as the ambient light level and the luminous power of the image source. Flat or curved screens may be used depending on the optics used to project the image and the desired geometrical accuracy of the image production, flat screens being the more common of the two. Screens can be further designed for front or back projection, the more common being front projection systems, which have the image source situated on the same side of the screen as the audience.

Different markets exist for screens targeted for use with digital projectors, movie projectors, overhead projectors and slide projectors, although the basic idea for each of them is very much the same: front projection screens work on diffusely reflecting the light projected on to them, whereas back-projection screens work by diffusely transmitting the light through them.

Screens by installation type in different settings
In the commercial movie theaters, the screen is a reflective surface that may be either aluminized (for high contrast in moderate ambient light) or a white surface with small glass beads (for high brilliance under dark conditions). The screen also has hundreds of small, evenly spaced holes to allow air to and from the speakers and subwoofer, which often are directly behind it.

Rigid wall-mounted screens maintain their geometry perfectly which makes them suitable for applications that demand exact reproduction of image geometry. Such screens are often used in home theaters, along with the pull-down screens.

Pull-down screens (also known as manual wall screens) are often used in spaces where a permanently installed screen would require too much space. These commonly use painted fabric that is rolled in the screen case when not used, making them less obtrusive when the screen is not in use.

Fixed-frame screens provide the greatest level of uniform tension on the screens surface, resulting in the optimal image quality. They are often used in home theater and professional environments where the screen does not need to be recessed into the case. Electric screens can be wall-mounted, ceiling-mounted or ceiling recessed. These are often larger screens, though electric screens are available for home theater use as well. Electric screens are similar to pull-down screens, but instead of the screen being pulled down manually, an electric motor raises and lowers the screen. Electric screens are usually raised or lowered using either a remote control or wall-mounted switch, although some projectors are equipped with an interface that connects to the screen and automatically lowers the screen when the projector is switched on and raises it when the projector is switched off.

Switchable projection screens can be switched between opaque and clear. In the opaque state, projected image on the screen can be viewed from both sides. It is very good for advertising on store windows.

Mobile screens usually use either a pull-down screen on a free stand, or pull up from a weighted base. These can be used when it is impossible or impractical to mount the screen to a wall or a ceiling.

Both mobile and permanently installed pull-down screens may be of tensioned or not tensioned variety. Tensioned models attempt to keep the fabric flat and immobile, whereas the not tensioned models have the fabric of the screen hanging freely from their support structures. In the latter screens, the fabric can rarely stay immobile if there are currents of air in the room, giving imperfections to the projected image.

Specialty screens may not fall into any of these categories. These include non-solid screens, inflatable screens and others, and can be inexpensively made at home. See the respective articles for more information.

Screen gain
One of the most often quoted properties in a home theater screen is the gain. This is a measure of reflectivity of light compared to a screen coated with magnesium carbonate, titanium dioxide, or barium sulfate when the measurement is taken for light targeted and reflected perpendicular to the screen. Titanium dioxide is a bright white colour, but greater gains can be accomplished with materials that reflect more of the light parallel to projection axis and less off-axis.

Frequently quoted gain levels of various materials range from 0.8 of light grey matte screens to 2.5 of the more highly reflective glass bead screens. Very high gain levels could be attained simply by using a mirror surface, although the audience would then just see a reflection of the projector, defeating the purpose of using a screen. Many screens with higher gain are simply semi-glossy, and so exhibit more mirror-like properties, namely a bright "hot spot" in the screen—an enlarged (and greatly blurred) reflection of the projector's lens. Opinions differ as to when this "hot spotting" begins to be distracting, but most viewers do not notice differences as large as 30% in the image luminosity, unless presented with a test image and asked to look for variations in brightness. This is possible because humans have greater sensitivity to contrast in smaller details, but less so in luminosity variations as great as half of the screen. Other screens with higher gain are semi-retroreflective. Unlike mirrors, retroreflective surfaces reflect light back toward the source. Hot spotting is less of a problem with retroreflective high-gain screens. At the perpendicular direction used for gain measurement, mirror reflection and retroreflection are indistinguishable, and this has sown confusion about the behavior of high gain screens.

A second common confusion about screen gain arises for grey-colored screens. If a screen material looks grey on casual examination then its total reflectance is much less than 1. However, the grey screen can have measured gain of 1 or even much greater than 1. The geometric behavior of a grey screen is different from that of a white screen of identical gain. Therefore, since geometry is important in screen applications, screen materials should be at least specified by their gain and their total reflectance. Instead of total reflectance, "geometric gain" (equal to the gain divided by the total reflectance) can be the second specification.

Curved screens can be made highly reflective without introducing any visible hot spots, if the curvature of the screen, placement of the projector and the seating arrangement are designed correctly. The object of this design is to have the screen reflect the projected light back to the audience, effectively making the entire screen a giant "hot spot". If the angle of reflection is about the same across the screen, no distracting artifacts will be formed.

Semi-specular high gain screen materials are suited to ceiling-mounted projector setups since the greatest intensity of light will be reflected downward toward the audience at an angle equal and opposite to the angle of incidence. However, for a viewer seated to one side of the audience the opposite side of the screen is much darkened for the same reason. Some structured screen materials are semi-specularly reflective in the vertical plane while more perfectly diffusely reflective in the horizontal plane to avoid this. Glass-bead screens exhibit a phenomenon of retroreflection; the light is reflected more intensely back to its source than in any other direction. They work best for setups where the image source is placed in the same direction from the screen as the audience. With retroreflective screens, the screen center might be brighter than the screen periphery, a kind of hot spotting. This differs from semi-specular screens where the hot spot's location varies depending on the viewer's position in the audience. Retroreflective screens are seen as desirable due to the high image intensity they can produce with a given luminous flux from a projector.

Screen geometry
Projector screens are almost always rectangular in shape. They typically follow a standard display aspect ratio. For most home cinema setups there are two aspect ratios. 16:9 and Cinemascope.

For classroom, businesses and houses of worship settings, 16:10 is the more commonly used projector screen aspect ratio because this matches the aspect ratio used by many modern computers.

Square-shaped screens used for overhead projectors sometimes double as projection screens for digital projectors in meeting rooms, where space is scarce and multiple screens can seem redundant. These screens have an aspect ratio of 1:1 by definition.

Most image sources are designed to project a perfectly rectangular image on a flat screen. If the audience stays relatively close to the projector, a curved screen may be used instead without visible distortion in the image geometry. Viewers closer or farther away will see a pincushion or barrel distortion, and the curved nature of the screen will become apparent when viewed off-axis.

Image brightness and contrast
Apparent contrast in a projected image — the range of brightness — is dependent on the ambient light conditions, luminous power of the projector and the size of the image being projected. A larger screen size means less luminous (luminous power per unit solid angle per unit area) and thus less contrast in the presence of ambient light. Some light will always be created in the room when an image is projected, increasing the ambient light level and thus contributing to the degradation of picture quality. This effect can be lessened by decorating the room with dark colours. The real-room situation is different from the contrast ratios advertised by projector manufacturers, who record the light levels with projector on full black / full white, giving as high contrast ratios as possible.

Manufacturers of home theater screens have attempted to resolve the issue of ambient light by introducing screen surfaces that direct more of the light back to the light source. The rationale behind this approach relies on having the image source placed near the audience, so that the audience will actually see the increased reflected light level on the screen.

Highly reflective flat screens tend to suffer from hot spots, when part of the screen seems much more bright than the rest. This is a result of the high directionality (mirror-likeness) of such screens. Screens with high gain also have a narrower usable viewing angle, as the amount of reflected light rapidly decreases as the viewer moves away from front of such screen. Because of the said effect, these screens are also less vulnerable to ambient light coming from the sides of the screen, as well.

Grey screens
A relatively recent attempt in improving the perceived image quality is the introduction of grey screens, which are more capable of darker tones than their white counterparts. A matte grey screen would have no advantage over a matte white screen in terms of contrast; contemporary grey screens are rather designed to have a gain factor similar to those of matte white screens, but a darker appearance. A darker (grey) screen reflects less light, of course—both light from the projector and ambient light. This decreases the luminance (brightness) of both the projected image and ambient light, so while the light areas of the projected image are dimmer, the dark areas are darker; white is less bright, but intended black is closer to actual black. Many screen manufacturers thus appropriately call their grey screens "high-contrast" models.

Although a projection screen cannot improve a projector's contrast level, the perceived contrast can be boosted.

In an optimal viewing room, the projection screen is reflective, whereas the surroundings are not. The ambient light level is related to the overall reflectivity of the screen, as well as that of the surroundings. In cases where the area of the screen is large compared to that of the surroundings, the screen's contribution to the ambient light may dominate and the effect of the non-screen surfaces of the room may even be negligible. Some examples of this are planetariums and virtual-reality cubes featuring front-projection technology. Some planetariums with dome-shaped projection screens have thus opted to paint the dome interior in gray, in order to reduce the degrading effect of inter-reflections when images of the sun are displayed simultaneously with images of dimmer objects.

Grey screens are designed to rely on powerful image sources that are able to produce adequate levels of luminosity so that the white areas of the image still appear as white, taking advantage of the non-linear perception of brightness in the human eye. People may perceive a wide range of luminosities as "white", as long as the visual clues present in the environment suggest such an interpretation. A grey screen may thus succeed almost as well in delivering a bright-looking image, or fail to do so in other circumstances.

Compared to a white screen, a grey screen reflects less light to the room and less light from the room, making it increasingly effective in dealing with the light originating from the projector. Ambient light originating from other sources may reach the eye immediately after having reflected from the screen surface, giving no advantage over a white high-gain screen in terms of contrast ratio. The potential improvement from a grey screen may thus be best realized in a darkened room, where the only light is that of the projector.

Partly fueled by popularity, grey screen technology has improved greatly in recent years. Grey screens are now available in various gain and grey-scale levels.

Selectively reflective screens
Certain screens are claimed to selectively reflect the narrow wavelengths of projector light while absorbing other wavelengths in the optical spectrum. Sony makes a screen that appears grey in normal room light, and is intended to reduce the effect of ambient light. This is purported to work by preferentially absorbing ambient light of colors not used by the projector, while preferentially reflecting the colors of red, green and blue light the projector uses. A true color-selective screen has not been substantiated. A contrast-enhancing screen has been introduced by Dai Nippon Printing (DNP) and Screen Innovations that is based on thin layers of black louvers rather than wavelength-selective reflection properties.

Screens as an optical element
In an optimally configured system, projection screen surface and the real image plane are made to coincide. From an optical point of view, a screen is not needed for the image to form; screens are rather used to make an image visible.

title: Projection screen


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Cherry Ripe (song)

Cherry Ripe is an English song with words by poet Robert Herrick (1591–1674) and music by Charles Edward Horn (1786–1849).

It contains the refrain, Cherry ripe, cherry ripe, Ripe I cry, Full and fair ones Come and buy. Cherry ripe, cherry ripe, Ripe I cry, Full and fair ones Come and buy.

An earlier poem by Thomas Campion (1567–1620) used the same title Cherry Ripe, and has other similarities. It is thought that the refrain originated as a trader's street cry.

The song's title has been used in other contexts on a number of occasions since and its tune has also been appropriated for other uses. The song was popular in the 19th century and at the time of World War I.

Alternative lyrics
During the late 1800s, an alternative version of the song briefly appeared. The lyrics were as follows

Cherry Ripe, Cherry Ripe Ripe I cry Full and fair ones Till I die Cherry ripe, Cherry ripe Mouse and I River's where we're Till you die

In popular culture

 * The song is mentioned in the 1889 farcical novel The Wrong Box, written by Robert Louis Stevenson and his stepson Lloyd Osbourne, in a passage discussing the ubiquity of the penny whistle in late 19th century England, as one of two songs every player of that instrument invariably blows.
 * The song "Cherry Ripe" is a recurring theme in John Buchan's World War I spy novel Mr Standfast (1919). It identifies Mary Lamington, a young intelligence officer, who falls in love, mutually, with the hero of the novel, General Richard Hannay.
 * The song is mentioned in Dylan Thomas's 1955 A Child's Christmas in Wales.
 * The song is mentioned in Book Two, Chapter 16 of George Eliot's 1871 Middlemarch.
 * Several characters of Iris Murdoch's Booker-prize winning novel The Sea, the Sea (1978), sing "Cherry Ripe" as they land into a party mood.
 * It is sung by Maud Chapman (played by Hilda Bayley) in the 1942 film, Went the Day Well?.
 * In the classic 1957 British horror film Night of the Demon (released as Curse of the Demon in North America) the medium uses this song to attain a trance.
 * It is heard in the 1958 film Smiley Gets a Gun, sung by Ruth Cracknell's character, Mrs Gaspen.
 * In the 1960 film Bottoms Up it is sung by the character Professor Dinwiddie, who mistakes a public chastisement for a sing-along.
 * It also featured in the opening episode of the 2007 BBC drama "Lilies", sung by the character May Moss at a gentleman's club.
 * It was heard in the 1982 musical comedy film Victor Victoria, sung by Julie Andrews at her character's unsuccessful audition at a nightclub.
 * The song is sung by Alice in the opening sequence in the 1999 television movie Alice in Wonderland.
 * It gave its name to the numbers station of the same name, in which the tune was played as a call sign.

Paintings

 * In 1879 it was adopted by John Everett Millais as the title of his immensely popular painting depicting a young girl with cherries. It was based loosely on Joshua Reynolds's portrait of Penelope Boothby. Millais had his niece Lucinda Ruby pose for the portrait only a matter of days before the girl was killed under the arches of London Bridge station. The painting was reproduced in colour as a chromolithograph by the newspaper The Graphic as a gift with its Christmas edition. The image vastly increased the newspaper's sales.
 * A painting by Walter Osborne (1859–1903) of a cherry seller in Ulster also used the title.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Cherry Ripe (song)


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Arthur Paget (British Army officer)

General Sir Arthur Henry Fitzroy Paget, (1 March 1851 – 8 December 1928) was a soldier who reached the rank of General and served as Commander-in-Chief, Ireland, where he was partly responsible for the Curragh Incident.

Early life
Paget was the son of Lord Alfred Paget; his paternal grandfather was Henry William Paget, 1st Marquess of Anglesey. His mother Cecilia (d. 1914) was the second daughter and co-heiress of George Thomas Wyndham of Cromer Hall in Norfolk.

Paget was born in Berkeley Square, London, on 1 March 1851, the eldest son of six sons and six daughters. Among his siblings were Gerald Cecil Stewart Paget (grandfather of Percy Bernard, 5th Earl of Bandon), Sydney Augustus Paget, Almeric Hugh Paget, 1st Baron Queenborough, and Alexandra Harriet Paget (wife of Edward Colebrooke, 1st Baron Colebrooke).

Paget was educated at Wellington College, and was a page of honour to Queen Victoria, entitling him to a free Guards commission (purchase of commissions being still in force until 1871).

Early career
Paget was gazetted ensign and lieutenant in the Scots Fusilier Guards on 12 June 1869 – the double rank was because Guards officers at that time held higher substantive rank in the army than in the regiment. He was promoted lieutenant and captain on 29 July 1872 and was selected for special service on Sir Garnet Wolseley's Asante expedition in West Africa in December 1873, being attached to William Butler's flanking column.

Paget returned to regimental duty in the UK. During the 1870s he was a leading owner of steeplechasers. Until 1878 he used the pen name "Mr Fitzroy". Under this pseudonym, Paget wrote several novels in the Naturalist style, recounting his exploits in the military.

He married, at St Peter's, Eaton Square, on 27 July 1878.

Paget was promoted captain and lieutenant-colonel on 1 April 1882. His battalion, the 2nd Scots Guards, went to Suakin in the Sudan in 1885. He served in Burma in 1887–8 (the aftermath of the Third Anglo-Burmese War) and, again, in the Sudan in 1888–9. He was promoted brevet colonel on 24 June 1895.

Boer War
In 1899 Paget was facing compulsory retirement on grounds of age. Instead he received command of the 1st Battalion Scots Guards and took it to the Second Boer War.

Paget was mentioned twice in despatches, and present at the Battle of Belmont and the Battle of Modder River. After that battle Colonel Paget temporarily took command of 1st (Guards) Brigade in Lord Methuen's 1st Division. Paget was also present at the Battle of Magersfontein. He received command of the new 20th Brigade (part of 1st Division) on promotion to major-general on 1 April 1900.

Paget was promoted to the staff, and in the later stages of the war was put in command of an independent column hunting Boer commandos. Many of Paget's Australian and New Zealand volunteers were disenchanted and wanted to go home before the expiry of their one-year term of service. Paget gave what Ian Beckett describes as a "blustering speech" to his whole assembled force in November 1900, refusing their request. Herbert Plumer had to pacify the men. Subsequently, they blamed Paget for ordering a costly frontal assault on Rhenoster Kop on 29 November 1900.

In June 1901, Paget resigned his command, intending to give up his career, after quarrelling with his superior, the Hon. Neville Lyttelton. Paget was persuaded by Edward VII, whom he knew well, to continue, Lord Roberts suggesting Paget was 'difficult with those above him'. Paget wrote to Sir John French praising his leadership in South Africa, and claiming that respect for him had been his reason for remaining in the Army.

1902–1914
The King wanted Paget to return to South Africa. However, he was appointed General Officer Commanding the 1st Infantry Division within 1st Army Corps in September 1902, and at the same time temporarily assumed command of the 2nd Infantry Brigade in the Marlborough lines at Aldershot, where the Brigade of Guards were to be quartered. He was also appointed CB and CVO.

He was promoted lieutenant general on 6 May 1906, and appointed a Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order and also appointed a Knight Commander of the Order of the Bath in 1907.

After eighteen months of unemployment Paget was appointed General Officer Commanding-in-Chief for Eastern Command on 4 April 1908. In that post in 1909 he seldom visited his office, preferring "other activities". In 1910 he was appointed a special ambassador to carry the news of King George V's accession to foreign courts. In September 1910 Sir John French declared that Sir Charles Douglas and Paget would 'command armies under him'. In 1911, when he "commanded" one of the forces on the Annual Manoeuvres, he did not actually attend, and his BGGS (Brigadier-General, chief of Staff) Aylmer Haldane had to brief him on the train from London to Salisbury so that he could participate in the discussion afterwards.

Curragh Incident
In 1912 Paget was appointed Commander-in-Chief, Ireland, and was sworn of the Privy Council of Ireland in 1912. He was appointed a Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath in 1913, and promoted general on 5 March 1913. Lady Paget became a society hostess in Ireland.

With Irish Home Rule due to become law in 1914, the Cabinet were beginning to contemplate some kind of military action against the Ulster Volunteers who wanted no part of it. French (CIGS) and Seely (Secretary of State for War) summoned Paget to the War Office for talks. Paget's letter (19 October 1913) suggests that he wanted "partial mobilisation".

The following spring, Paget was sent a letter by the secretary of the Army Council warning that "evil-disposed persons" might attempt to seize weapons. Paget reported that he was drawing up plans to protect arms depots as ordered, but warning that large-scale troop movements would exacerbate the situation. Ian Beckett describes his response as "tentative". Paget was summoned to London for a meeting with the Cabinet Committee on Ireland and other officers.

Large scale military operations were clearly discussed at the meeting on 18 March, although most participants insisted that these were only precautionary measures. That evening (18 March) Paget wired Major General Lovick Friend that the troop movements were to be completed by dawn on Sunday 31 March. Another, hurried, meeting was held on the night of 19 March after Sir Edward Carson's dramatic departure from the Commons, amid rumours that he intended to declare a provisional government upon reaching Belfast. At that meeting Seely declared that the government was pressing ahead with Home Rule and had no intention of allowing civil war to break out, suggesting that the Ulster Volunteers were to be crushed if they attempted to start one. Paget said that he would "lead his Army to the Boyne” – French immediately told him not to be "a bloody fool". On his way to Dublin, Paget was seen in a highly excitable state at Euston railway station.

Paget was given no written orders. Ian Beckett writes that this was at his own request, although Richard Holmes wrote that it may have been because there were things which the politicians were reluctant to put in writing.

In Dublin the next morning (Friday 20 March), Paget addressed senior officers at his headquarters. Three different accounts (written by Paget, Fergusson (GOC 5th Division) and Gough in his 1954 memoirs Soldiering On) exist, but it is clear that Paget exacerbated the situation. Paget claimed that with French's assistance he had obtained "concessions" from Seely, namely that officers who lived in Ulster would be permitted to "disappear" for the duration, but that other officers who refused to serve against Ulster would be dismissed rather than being permitted to resign. By Gough's account, he said that "active operations were to commence against Ulster" and that Gough – who had a family connection to Ulster but did not actually live there – could expect no mercy from his "old friend at the War Office" (French, Paget and Ewart had actually (on 19 March) agreed that officers with "direct family connections" to Ulster should be left behind). In effectively offering his officers an ultimatum, Paget was acting foolishly, as the majority would probably have obeyed if simply ordered north. Paget is reported to have ended the meeting by ordering his officers to speak to their subordinates and then report back. Gough did not attend the second meeting in the afternoon, at which Paget confirmed that the purpose of the move was to overawe Ulster rather than fight, but at which he claimed that the orders had the King's personal sanction. The King was later displeased when it became known that Paget had used his name in this way, and was unconvinced when Paget tried to blame Fergusson (who accepted the blame).

Paget later insisted that he had wanted 'to ascertain upon what other officers he could rely' and that he had not wanted an ultimatum to be given to junior officers.

Paget informed the War Office by telegram (evening of 20 March) that 57 officers preferred to accept dismissal (it was actually 61 including Gough). On the morning of Saturday 21 March Fergusson toured units, assuring them of his own unionist sympathies but urging them to do their duty – this action had a good effect. Paget did the same but his speech was described by one colonel as "absolutely unconvincing and inconclusive".

The elderly Field-Marshal Roberts later learned from an interview with Seely (21 March) that Paget had been acting without authority in talking of "active operations" and in giving officers a chance to discuss hypothetical orders and attempt to resign. This news helped persuade Hubert Gough to remain in the Army, albeit with a written guarantee (which the government then repudiated) that the Army would not be used against Ulster.

Paget was, in the end, able to conduct the precautionary moves planned on 18 and 19 March.

First World War and later life
Paget relinquished Irish Command on the outbreak of the First World War. He continued to serve during the war, although not in France.

Despite being fit for service, on the outbreak of war Paget was relegated to command of First Army of Central Force, for defence against invasion. Sir John French blocked Paget from being given command of the new BEF III Corps (it went to Pulteney) in October 1914, or being appointed British representative at French GQG. Edmonds, who was a source of gossipy and exaggerated stories in old age, later claimed that Paget had been the best candidate for III Corps but that French passed him over having had a row with him on the Army Manoeuvres of 1913.

Kitchener was concerned at the limited information he was receiving from Major General John Hanbury-Williams, his representative at the Russian High Command STAVKA (at this stage it was still hoped that Russia would defeat the Central Powers in Poland and Galicia and march on Berlin). He considered sending Paget, either in Hanbury-Williams' place or as senior both to Hanbury-Williams and to Alfred Knox the military attaché in Petrograd. He interviewed Paget and informed Foreign Secretary Sir Edward Grey of his decision (13 October 1914), and that Paget was persona grata with the Tsar. Kitchener abandoned his plans two days later after he received a message from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Sazonov, via Ambassador George Buchanan, that this would sour relations with the Russian Commander-in-Chief Grand Duke Nicholas, who would regard this as an attempt to strong-arm him.

French tried to obtain a BEF Army command for him in June 1915 (Richard Holmes wrote that French remained fond of him but insisted on his suitability despite "impressive evidence to the contrary"). Both Haig and Robertson were completely opposed to his being appointed GOC of the new Third Army, activated that month. He was appointed to command the Salisbury Plain training area in 1915. From April 1916 to February 1918 he commanded Southern Army, charged with the defence of South-East England, reporting to Viscount French who was by then Commander-in-Chief of Home Forces.

Paget retired in 1918. That year he was appointed King of Arms of the Order of the British Empire. He spent much of the remainder of his life at Cannes, where he died at the Villa Valhalla, Chemin de Benefiat, on 8 December 1928, and was buried in Le Grand Jas cemetery.

Personality and assessments
Besides his main interest in horse racing, Paget also hunted and fished and later took up gardening, golf, and yachting. He later became interested in botany.

Paget talked of the "dirty swine of politicians. Scornful of formal study of war, he once remarked that he 'lived history rather than read it' (The Times, 10 Dec 1928).

Sir Harold Nicolson wrote that "he was not a man of measured language or meek tact". Victor Bonham-Carter (p78 of "Soldier True", his biography of Robertson) described him less diplomatically as "a stupid, arrogant, quick-tempered man". Ian Beckett describes him as "while often genial ... also inclined to be pompous, and liable to angry rambling. He was the wrong man in the wrong place as the Irish home rule crisis deepened ... It is important to emphasize that no direct orders of any kind were disobeyed, exacerbating Paget's error in offering a choice whether to obey orders in the event that they were issued".

Personal life
In July 1878, Paget married the American heiress Mary "Minnie" Fiske Stevens (1853–1919) daughter of Massachusetts hotel proprietors Paran Stevens and Marietta Reed. She was a major beneficiary of her father's estate, which was the subject of thirty years' litigation after his death in 1872. Described by Ian Beckett as "vivacious", she became a noted London society hostess, famed for her jewels. She organised bazaars and functions in aid of armed forces charities. Lady Paget died of influenza in Paris in May 1919.

The Pagets had three sons, who all became army officers, and one daughter:

 * Albert Edward Sydney Louis Paget (1879–1917), who was unmarried. He died on active service from the effects of poison gas in August 1917.
 * Louise Margaret Leila Wemyss Paget (1881–1958), who married her third cousin, the diplomat Sir Ralph Paget, son of Sir Augustus Berkeley Paget and Walburga von Hohenthal.
 * Arthur Wyndham Louis Paget (1888–1966), who married Rosemary Victoria Lowry-Corry, daughter of Brig.-Gen. Noel Armar Lowry-Corry.
 * Reginald Scudamore George Paget (1888–1931), who married Minnie Louise Claussenius, an actress whose stage name was Jane Field.

title: Arthur Paget (British Army officer)


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Nils Blommér

Nils Blommér, born Nils Johan Olsson (12 June 1816 – 1 February 1853) was a Swedish painter. His middle name is sometimes given as Jakob.

Biography
He was born to the schoolteacher, Anders Olsson, and his wife, Elsa née Jakobsdotter, in Blommeröd, a village in the Diocese of Lund.

He started his career as an apprentice to Magnus Körner in Lund then, in 1839, enrolled at the Royal Swedish Academy of Fine Arts. In 1847, he received a generous scholarship that enabled him to go to Paris, where he studied with Léon Cogniet. It was there he adopted the name "Blommér", after his birthplace. Later, he came under the influence of the Neo-Romantics, such as Erik Gustaf Geijer, Per Daniel Amadeus Atterbom and Erik Johan Stagnelius. He also drew inspiration from Swedish folk songs and the folklore motifs of the Austrian painter, Moritz von Schwind. He firmly believed that nature had an inherent soul; symbolized by folk characters.

Around 1850, he moved to Italy where, in November 1852, he married Edla Blommér, also a painter. A few weeks later, he caught pneumonia and died in Rome, from related complications, early the following year.

Blommér's best known works are based on Norse mythology and folklore. They include Älfdrömmen, Sommarnattsdrömmen, Näcken och Ägirs döttrar, Brage och Iduna, Freja, Loke och Sigyn and Älfvor. They may be seen at the Göteborgs konstmuseum, Livrustkammaren and the Nationalmuseum.

title: Nils Blommér


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TCAP

TCAP may refer to:

Science

 * Acetone peroxide, the trimer version tri-cyclic acetone peroxide, a high explosive
 * Telethonin, a protein encoded by the TCAP gene

Education

 * Tennessee Comprehensive Assessment Program, a public school standardized testing program
 * Transitional Colorado Assessment Program, a public school standardized testing program that replaced the Colorado Student Assessment Program

Finance

 * Tax Credit Assistance Program, a U.S. federal housing grant program
 * Thanachart Capital PCL (stock ticker: TCAP), the holding company of TBank, the Thanachart Bank

Other uses

 * Taipei Children's Amusement Park, an amusement park in Taipei, Taiwan
 * To Catch a Predator, American reality television news segment of Dateline NBC, which used hidden cameras to catch child sex predators
 * Transaction Capabilities Application Part (ITU-T Q.771-Q.775 or ANSI T1.114) a protocol to allow multiple simultaneous dialogs on the same subsystem
 * Catholic Tercio of Political Action Party (Spanish: TCAP) a local political party in Madrid in 2007, see Results breakdown of the 2007 Spanish local elections (Community of Madrid)

title: TCAP


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Pickering Castle

Pickering Castle is a motte-and-bailey fortification in Pickering, North Yorkshire, England. The original castle was made of timber, and the later stone castle was a temporary prison for Richard II in 1399.

Design
Pickering Castle was originally a timber and earth motte and bailey castle. It was developed into a stone motte and bailey castle which had a stone shell keep. The current inner ward was originally the bailey, and was built between 1180 and 1187. The keep was developed into a stone shell keep sometime during the years 1216 to 1236 along with the chapel – there is a reconstruction of the chapel at the site. Between the years 1323 and 1326 there was an outer ward and curtain wall built, along with three towers. There were also two ditches, one situated outside of the curtain wall and one in the outer ward. After this a gatehouse, ovens, hall and the storehouses were built. The castle is situated in the Vale of Pickering and has a considerably steep cliff on the west side which would have been a great defensive attribute.

History

The original structure was built by the Normans under William the Conqueror in 1069–1070. This early building included the large, central mound (the motte), the outer palisades (enclosing the bailey) and internal buildings, notably the keep on top of the motte. Ditches were also dug to make assault on the walls difficult. The main purpose of the castle at this time was to maintain control of the area after the Harrying of the North, though by 1322, the defences had been re-fortified on the orders of Edward II who had narrowly escaped capture by the Scots during battles in the same year. At the same time, due to the fears about the Scottish invasions, the garrison was strengthened. When Richard II of England was deposed as king, he was held prisoner in the castle (c. 1399) until his removal to Pontefract.

Its remains are particularly well-preserved because it is one of only a few castles which were largely unaffected by the 15th-century Wars of the Roses and the English Civil War of the 17th century. However, during the civil war, the castle was held for the king and was breached on its west side, with most part of this side being dismantled. Three mounds to the west of the castle are said to have been the positions that Cromwell's forces placed their canons to destroy the west wall. Later in the conflict, Parliamentary troops occupied the site and Sir Hugh Cholmeley stripped the lead, timber, and iron from the towers of the castle to provide extra defences for Scarborough Castle.

In 1926, the Ministry of Works (the predecessor of English Heritage) took possession of the castle. It is a Scheduled Monument and open to the public.

title: Pickering Castle


text:
Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Vancouver Skybridge

Vancouver Skybridge
This does an excellent job of illustrating the impressive Vancouver Skybridge that crosses the Fraser River between New Westminister, British Columbia and Surrey, British Columbia. I particularly like the way that the architecture sears through the bright blue Canadian sky. Broonee 11:20, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose There appears to be two pairs of knockers in the way. Do you mind girls, I'm trying to look at the architecture! Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 13:27, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose These must be some strange new meanings of the words "excellent" and "illustrating" of which was previously unaware. They're not even good-quality photos generally. --Calton | Talk 04:40, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment - They don't even look 18/19, those look like high-school girls...so I'm thinking that's not a good idea to be posting underage breasts sa our featured pictures ;) Sherurcij 08:07, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose as per Sherurucij's comment. A RfC has been filed by Broonee about this photo and its inclusion in the Vancouver Skybridge article (which, has no photo in use right now). Zscout370 (Sound Off) 07:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Both photos deleted from WikiCommons on August 13 after a formal deletion request. Thuresson 13:37, 13 August 2005 (UTC)


text: User talk:213.249.154.100

title: User talk:213.249.154.100


text:
Talk:Blackwall Tunnel

Longest underwater tunnel in the world, 1897?
The Severn Tunnel is over four miles long and was opened to railway traffic in 1886. I have removed this text for now. Perhaps the author means the longest underwater road tunnel? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moggyland (talk • contribs) 10:54, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

clean-up
I have sectionised the text, tidied up the English in places, replacing some truncations (don't, etc) and 'non-encyclopaedic' terms. Is it still a clean-up candidate? Paul W 11:20, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

 * It appears not.  DJR  ( T ) ( WC ) 22:19, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Map?
A Map of where this tunnel is could do, but I don't know where to find one, since I can't upload copyrighted stuff.--NatovR
 * I've added a link to multimap and other maps sources in the external links section. --DavidCane 22:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Added. --TFoxton 21:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Can lorries use the Tunnel?
What is the limit?

And when I got Northbound, I sort of see a sign that says 'overheight' vehicle or something? So what happens to those big vehicles? Do they turn around? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.243.204.58 (talk) 01:14, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

lorries in tunnel
Overheight lorries can, if they stop immediately, exit onto a sliproad. When they don't stop (and they often don't) then the approach has to be closed whilst they are reversed back out. Lowattboy (talk) 13:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Mott Macdonald report
I note that the linked Mott Macdonald PDF has been replaced by another PDF requesting that Wikipedia link to the original blog article referencing the report. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liger (talk • contribs) 22:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well as blogs are not reliable sources I have removed the link and replaced with a fact request. It's a shame as this section will probably end up being deleted as unreferenced.  Regan123 (talk) 22:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I see no indication on the source page that blog posts are prima facie unreliable sources. The blog post in question seems like a good piece of work and does contain the link to the new PDF of the report, which is an indisputably useful primary source.  I suggest reverting the link to the blog post as requested by the author. Liger (talk)  —Preceding comment was added at 15:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Regan:123: what say you? Please respond.  If you don't reply within a few days, I'll link to the blog post again, as I think it a reliable source, which in turn links to (and is the uploader of) the primary source. Liger (talk) 15:20, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I read it too - IMHO it looks pretty genuine and good substantiation. Keep the link. Ephebi (talk) 16:49, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

is there another way to get from enfield to lewisham then the tunnel also is there a charge using this tunnell 86.147.156.40 (talk) 19:40, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

South Approach Gateway
The article refers to the gateway over the south approach as "red-brick", however as can be seen on Google Street View (url below), the gateway appears to be constructed from a mixture of red and blonde sandstone. This may be facing and the underlying structure might be brick, but I think it might be misleading to describe the building as such.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=blackwall+tunnel&sll=51.4929,0.006802&sspn=0.009192,0.01929&ie=UTF8&hq=blackwall+tunnel&hnear=Blackwall+Tunnel,+Poplar,+E14+9,+UK&ll=51.496811,0.002666&spn=0,359.995177&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.496534,0.002118&panoid=zqLzYU2eWJbZQiIp6MYuvQ&cbp=12,354.69,,0,1.2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simpsoj (talk • contribs) 12:13, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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title: Talk:Blackwall Tunnel


text: Talk:Cinema of Korea

title: Talk:Cinema of Korea


text: Category:Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway


text:
Talk:Brisk tradition and Soloveitchik dynasty

Condensing bios
Considering Yitzchak Zev Soloveitchik and Chaim Soloveitchik now have pages, how about condensing their biographies here and creating new pages for the Beis ha-Levi and Reb Moshe Soloveitchik? JFW | T@lk  11:23, 15 July 2005 (UTC) ok, i'll work on it one day.

Examples of Lomdus
At the end of the article there are two examples of Brisker lomdus. They are unsourced, and unless someone adds the source we have a WP:CITE problem. JFW | T@lk  13:44, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

ok done!--Rachack 22:10, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

What about any of the next generation? Shouldn't there be at least links to the American or Israeli pages? micha 20:02, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Possibly, but things fan out and get quite confusing at some point.

Here's an idea: maybe make a list of all yeshivas around today that claim to be Brisk-related (or off-Brisk), explaining the connection? Everything from YU to R' Tzvi Kaplan, e.g. "YU: had lecturers R' Moshe Soloveitchik, then later R' Joseph Dov and finally R' Aharon (all zt'l)." "Or HaChaim in Kew Gardens Hills: Roshei Yeshiva are R' Daniel Lander, a Talmid of R' Joseph Dov, and R' Yehuda Kraus, a Talmid of R' Berel."

 * You're taka right. Maybe you should take it upon yourself to put that together. I don't have the resources/knowledge to do it. --Rachack 03:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Rav Chaim Volozhiner
Somebody added R' Chaim Volozhiner; could they please explain his connection to the Soloveitchiks? Right now it looks very much out of place.

 * there are descendants of rav chaim volozhiner --Rachack 19:54, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Nu ... good ... Firstly, the article should explain how the Bais HaLevi was related to R' Chaim Volozhiner. But more importantly, this article is supposed to be about BRISK, Briskers, the Brisk mehalech, etc.. While I've heard talmidim of R' Yoshe Ber talk about "Moshe kibel torah misinai umesara lihoshua ... to the Vilna Gaon, to R' Chaim Volozhiner, to the Briskers, to R' Yoshe Ber"; I think we could all safely agree that R' Chaim Volozhiner was not associated with the town of Brisk, was not named "Soloveitchik", and is generally not directly linked to the Brisker mehalech. So perhaps in discussing Solovetichik yichus, you could mention the R' Chaim Volozhiner connection in passing; but I don't think he belongs in our chronological list of "Briskers."

It took me a few days to build up the guts to do it, but I've gone ahead and done the modification. If you really don't like it, go ahead and change it back, I won't put up a fight.

 * --Rachack 03:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)גם זו לטובא

Clean-up tag
Unless somebody justifies why this article has a clean-up tag attached to it, I will soon remove the tag because I don't see any problems with the article. --רח"ק | Talk 20:54, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The article is messy in everything from arbitrary content emphasis (e.g. this should be an article on either the yeshivas or the dynasty - not both) to the title name (Brisk (Yeshiva) or Brisk (Dynasty) would be more appropriate) to unconventional naming (e.g. "Rabbi Joseph Dov (HaLevi) Soloveitchik (the first) (1820-1892) who is known by his pen name for his work the Beis HaLevi"; "the 'GRYZ' "; and so forth). See Manual of Style for more information. Also, using transliterating "ת" as "s" doesn't conform to Wikipedia's standard transliteration conventions for Hebrew (regardless of how Briskers themselves pronounce the letter). HKTTalk 22:36, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

HKT: The article states how names are used by those who use those names which is not against any Wikipedia rules. The rabbis of Brisk are an integral part of their yeshivas whicvh are run very informally without the usual trappings of conventional yeshivas. Obviously you are not aware of the Brisk system that they do not even have formal "yeshivas" and "institutions" in any formal sense since everything is "informal" and revolves around the rabbis themselves and their shiurim. You are being too harsh. The article is trying to convey the "flavor" of things and with time will be improved. IZAK 07:16, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * People don't normally refer to the Beis HaLevi as "Rabbi Joseph Dov (HaLevi) Soloveitchik (the first)". I added the tag to increase the likelihood of the article being improved. And "obviously," you would be surprised at how familiar I am with Brisk. Nevertheless, if you want to remove the tag, I don't care enough to contest it. HKTTalk 20:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * HKT: It would be great if you could contribute your own knowledge, and editing skills, in improving such an important article that you admit you know so much about! After all, who do you expect will come along and "improve" the article?, only someone who has a real education about the facts involved. Best wishes, IZAK 09:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Content-wise it doesn't need many additions, and many editors could improve the article as needed. The tag would invite them to do so. Unfortunately, I don't currently have the time for this. HKTTalk 17:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

RYBS
This bio is about Brisk Yeshivas. RIETS is not a Brisk Yeshiva. His name should not be included for this reason. 66.93.254.200 16:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

B'mechilas kevodo, this user (see his page) has consistently violated NPOV and vandalized other pages; erasing R' Yoshe Ber here is a blatant case of this -- I have restored the Rov's reference on this page. Your point is valid, if this article is about Yeshivas that identify themselves as "Brisk" per se. (Even then, we could think in terms of yeshivas with heavy Brisk influences, and if you'd include R' Tzvi Kaplan in that list, you'd have no choice but to include RIETS as well.) HOWEVER, I think the point of this article is a bit broader. It was initially written (by me) to describe the Brisk dynasty and Brisk approach; the renaming to "Brisk yeshiva" was done later by someone else. You will see throughout this article that we describe not only the yeshivas, but also the approach and dynasty. Say what you want about RIETS, but everything we know today about the Brisker mehalech, hashkafah, and yichus would be sorely lacking if we erased R' Yoshe Ber, and therefore everything he said or did, due to our political beliefs. I hope I'm not speaking too strongly here, and I welcome others' opinions on the matter. But I think most Wikipedians on this page would agree that it was only right to leave in R' Yoshe Ber. TLMD13 09:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

You are mistakenly branding me for the mistakes of one out of literally many hundreds of other people who use a computer with this IP address. I respect your decision to write about Brisker teachers--a category in which RYBS arguably falls into. But because the title of the article is about Brisker Yeshivas, RIETS cannot be included. Even RYBS's Torah is different from the others mentioned in this article. The latest sefer of RYBS actually shows how RYBS was a baal michadesh, something everyone from Rav Berel and on no longer do out of deference to R' Velvel. The point is, RYBS had a different focus. You are free to change the title so that you can revert my changes or write another article on the subject of disseminators of Brisker Torah. At that rate, you may have to include Roshei Yeshiva like Rav Binyomin Paler (a talmid muvhak of the Brisker Rav and termed by R' Ahron as the amkon hador) and many others, who I would be more than glad to offer you information about, as well. Though I learned in Brisk, I do not have anything against anyone who went RIETS merely because they went to RYBS's yeshiva. Furthermore, though I am in a very small minority, I took the time to learn some of RYBS's Torah. This is not about kannous. Its about factual accuracy. And I think it would not be entirely accurate to brand him either as a Brisker in the pure sense of the word (not merely in the hashkafic sense) or his Yeshiva as a Brisker Yeshiva.

B'micholas kevodo, I think you are the kannoi here. So long as the article is entitled Brisk Yeshiva, RIETS cannot be included. It is factually inaccurate. While no one can help being awe inspired by someone of RYBS's genius, this a matter of metzius. I went through the chiddushin written over in RYBS's name on Sukka. I write it this way because it was CLEARLY not in the style of Brisk (I am not just writing about the way it was written here), and I am sure RYBS was a LOt more clear (as he was legendary for that), thorough and thought out. Nevertheless, it is as Brisk, as, say, R' Yitzchok Sorotzkin's Torah, at the least. I would also be glad to help. But if we are to be cool headed and no kaanoish, we would NOT include RYBS and RMS in this article. DavidCharlesII 14:18, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I responded to your comment on my talk page, but I want to reiterate the point here that if the article is to be changed, the discussion must come first. --Eliyak T · C 15:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

If the topic would be Brisk Influences in Yeshivas, or something like that, you would be ONE THOUSAND PERCENT CORRECT. However, the article is about Brisk Yeshivas. RIETS is not a Brisk Yeshiva. It never was. Its maggidei shiurim today CERTAINLY DO NOT GIVE Brisk style shiurim. Anyone who went to Brisk or learned a sefer from the Roshei Yeshiva of Brisk Yeshivas would acknowledge that.

As an aside, and this is important, I want to add that Brisk does not mean debth. On the contrary, its not as deep. Rav Shechter's shiurim--though I cannot state this with authority becuase I never heard one--can be deeper. The point is, his shiur is just not a Brisker shiur. I hope you understand that this issue is NOT meant to malign RIETS--not as an insitution or its students--it is merely to maintain a distinction that is too often blurred by well meaning people who have never really had the Brisk experience as it is in Eretz Yisroel. 66.93.254.200 15:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Morai V'Rabosai, let me fill in some information here, please. I was the original author of this article just over two years ago, and the article was simply titled "Brisk." It began because the article on RYBS talked about his connection to the Brisk dynasty/mehalech/etc., and that user had created a link to Brisk, but no article existed there, so I began one. That article was about the dynasty and hashkafah/mehalech, from the Beis HaLevi to R' Chaim and then tracing R' Moshe/RYBS and R'Velvel. Fine and good. It makes plenty of sense to have discussion before modifying, but the modification here was the REMOVAL of RYBS (and now R' Moshe too, I see), who had been on this page for more than two years. I felt it was only right to restore this. Notice even now that their bios were removed, they're still in the family tree, and a great deal of comments on hashkofo and the like still quote RYBS (particularly in regards to how to view R' Chaim Brisker.)

What happened since the original article is that someone retitled this article "Brisk Yeshiva", opened with a quote about Brisk kollel, etc. -- several Wikipedians attempted to request a cleanup of this page, as it's become a very messy cholent (my original article, while incomplete, was at least homogeneous), but that wasn't too popular. Nu. If this page is entirely about "Brisk yeshivas", then what is the Beis HaLevi doing here? Did he have a Brisk yeshiva? (While the Brisker derech played a role at various points in Volozhin's history, I don't think any of us would call Volozhin a Brisk yeshiva!) Earlier in the discussion, you'll see what we'd considered was a listing of Brisk offshoots and yeshivas with heavy Brisk affiliations or influences (similar to the way that Merkaz HaRav Kook considers itself a descendant of Volozhin). But for the time being, we'll have to accept that this article is a cholent of Brisker derech, Brisker dynasty, and Brisker yeshivas. And somewhere in all of that, it's only right to include RYBS and R' Moshe (good heavens! R' Yoshe Ber I understand, but why did we have to take out R' Moshe?). If someone would like to split the articles into Brisk dynasty vs. Brisk yeshiva and do further reorganization, ma tov uma naim. But in the meantime, with the article ba'asher hoo sham, I most seriously hope that we'll come to the conclusion that RYBS and R' Moshe should be reinstated here. TLMD13 21:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

Very well. Just to further the case here: if you look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Soloveitchik, you'll see that the phrase "Soloveitchik rabbinic dynasty" links to this page. So like it or not, for now this page is not strictly about Brisk yeshivas, it's about Briskers. I have attempted to accomodate MPOV by adding in the explanation, "while RIETS is not a Brisk yeshiva, it was home to R' Moshe, R' Yoshe Ber, and R' Aharon, who most scholars would say are Briskers." If you'd like to add in "but some say they aren't", fine by me. I've checked with several editors here -- you have repeatedly (both under the anonymous IP and DavidCharles) removed R' Moshe and RYBS after several different editors have restored them. If you persist, you will be in violation of Wiki policy. TLMD13 08:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

Unfortunately, you are in violation of Wikipedia's policy. With the name of the article being Brisk Yeshiva, you must remove RYBS as it is factually incorrect. If you have so much difficulty with maintaining neutrality, I strongly suggest you change the name. Anonomous and I are different people, and I strongly resent your suggestion that I am a liar. Please follow my recomendation, or RYBS and R' Moshe will have to be removed as they were not involved in Yeshivas Brisk. DavidCharlesII 18:53, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Look, a page on "Brisk yeshivas" is certainly justified in having a section about the "Soloveitchik dynasty" – the entire Soloveitchik dynasty. But see my comment below. --Eliyak T · C 19:16, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Seforim details
Not very pressing (and not related to the above discussion), but could someone with access to the various Seforim mentioned (GraCh Al HaRambam vs. GraCh al HaShas 'stencil', etc.) clarify the following please? Most Briskers published very little themselves; most was done by students in their name. (E.g. Igros HaGrid and Harrei Kedem both certainly contain RYBS' Torah, but both were collected and published by others.) Now it's fine to include both, but we should indicate the distinction. If I'm not mistaken (though I am away from my usual Seforim library), for example, R' Moshe did himself publish the Imrei Moshe, but not the Chidushei HaGram VehaGrid. Does this make sense? TLMD13 14:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

This is pretty ignorant. The Imrei Moshe was written by Rabbi Moshe Sokolovsky, the Rosh Yeshiva of Brisk and talmid of R' Chaim. It was not written by R' Moshe Soleveitchik. Perhaps you mean Chiddushei HaGram Halavi.

 * Woops! I am so embarrassed ... (in Grover voice) ... thanks for pointing that out!  But I think the point remains, we may want to draw the distinction between actually published by Rabbi ABC and put together by his talmidim bishmo, posthumously.  Regardless, oops and thanks!  TLMD13 00:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

Spelling
I've seen discussion elsewhere about R' Ahron spelling his surname without the 't'; does anyone have a source for R' Moshe or R' Shmuel? I'm not challenging this, just curious. And should we explain the difference in spelling, or just assume readers will either not notice, or understand that there were different spellings? TLMD13 14:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

Propose move
I propose to move this page to Brisk (movement). How's everyone feel about that? --Eliyak T · C 19:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

 * You mean renaming this page, I assume? (Sorry, new with the Wiki terminology here.)  Better than "yeshiva" for sure ... again, what happened here is that the original page was about Brisker derech and dynasty (to fill in the link from the RYBS's page), then someone came along and slapped on the "yeshiva" title.  I'm not complaining in the least if you change it to "movement", but Idunno, that title is still missing a certain ring ... wish I had something better.  Words like "derech" or "yichus" just don't translate properly -- "Brisk path?  Brisk lineage"?  No matter what we do here, the problem is that we're trying to impose a 21st century structure on something very amorphous.  Nu, should be the worst of our problems.  Hatzlacha Rabbah!    TLMD13 19:27, 4 September 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

I would agree to anything that would make the inclusion of RYBS more factually accurate. 71.250.194.153 20:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

 * OK, I'm moving it. --Eliyak T · C 17:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

 * There are two issues here (tzvey dinim in Brisk-speak):
 * Now that we have hived off "Brisker derech" into a separate article, there is no need for "methods" in the title of this one;
 * There is actually very little in this article on the subject of yeshivas. Can you list them?  How much difference is there between the dedicated "Brisk" yeshivas and the historic "Litvishe" ones like Ponevezh?  Is one type significantly more prestigious than the other? --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 11:25, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Maaseh with R' Velvel, Dina D'alma, etc.
Thought it was a good demonstration of the point, and hopefully understandable to a novice. (R' Rakefet used this one soon after introducing Brisk lomdus.) Let me know if you think it's really out of place. TLMD13 10:46, 10 September 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

R' Chaim Brisker & college
I wrote that "the views of R' Chaim and the Bais HaLevi on ...education" are topics of current debate. Since then, I found out that R' Chaim told one talmid he could take a job on Shabbos to get out of Nazi-controlled territory, as it was pikuach nefesh; but he told a different talmid he could not take a scholarship at YU to get out of Europe, because the minus/apikorsus is yehareg v'al ya'avor. From other stories I've heard, it sounds like R' Chaim's only concern was minus/apikorsus. (Which I assume would refer potentially to classics, literature e.g. New Testament, some forms of philosophy, and Bible criticism and the like; college then, including YU, is not college now, including YU.) Just as I wrote, R' Chaim Brisker had been anti-JNF, but that was pre Holocaust and 48, so who knows ... you could make the case, R' Chaim would have nothing against, say, a Touro or something where all they teach is computer programming, I don't know. The question I'm putting out here, regardless, is l'shem emes, should I (or someone else) include something about R' Chaim being anti-college? TLMD13 10:46, 10 September 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

Look at the Birkas Shmuel at the end of Kiddushin on the issue of college. He quotes R' Chaim's views on the subject.

 * Thanks, will try and get to that soon b'n. Not "this table has dinei cow", but get down and milk it!  Thank you.  TLMD13 19:26, 10 September 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

Hebrew transliterations: Ashkenozis or Sefardit?
I think this topic has come up before a bit, but let's face it here. While academic Judaics (e.g. "Tradition") generally favors a sephardic-like pronunciation, clearly R' Yosef Dov of Brisk called his Sefer "Beis HaLevi", not "Beit HaLevi." Furthermore, my guess right now would be that 90% of the disciples of the "Israeli" Briskers, and probably about 60% of disciples of "American" Briskers (R' Ahron & R' Yoshe Ber) use havora ashkenazis. So I quoted R' Chaim Brisker's vort on Panim Chadashos; certainly R' Chaim would say Chadoshos, not Chadashot -- what should we use here? Thought it should go up for discussion before allowing an anon user to change it. TLMD13 18:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

Deleted extra "synthesis" sentence on R' Yoshe Ber
The anon IP editor copied in a sentence about R' Yoshe Ber's synthesis with modern knowledge (or something to that effect). That sentence came from Rabbi Soloveitchik's own page, and I wouldn't argue about its content. Just felt that it didn't flow well with this article here (and gave too much information when we already have a page about him); the controversy over this is referenced towards the bottom of this page, anyhow. But if you really think it belongs, nu, let's talk about it here. TLMD13 18:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC)TLMD13

Brisk yeshivas
The expression 'Brisk yeshivas' in the article is more or less meaningless. Brisk has no yeshivas in the conventionally understood sense. (Thus acceptance criteria are also not very meaningful.) Members of the Soloveichik family run a beis medrash program to whose members they give a shiur. Admission to the shiur is at the personal discretion of the rosh yeshiva giving the shiur. Each Brisker 'yeshiva' learns in an assigned beis medrash (they don't have their own buildings). The section needs tidying up. --Redaktor 17:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

R' Chaim and anti-Zionism
The article says: R' Yoshe Ber and R' Ahron were more supportive of the State of Israel; most Israeli Briskers aren't. Yes, there are some quotes from R' Chaim about Zionism and the JNF and the like, however, in fairness to everyone involved, I think it's only honest to mention that many opinions did shift after the Holocaust and the founding of the Medinah. I'm therefore adding a comment back in, but with toned-down language. Redaktor and others, if you'd like to discuss this, I'm happy to do so, but please, please, at a time of mourning for those shelo nahagu kavod zeh b'zeh, please I beg you, let's have discussions before deletions here. TLMD13 19:02, 20 April 2007 (UTC)TLMD13
 * I am happy to discuss if you wish. I merely deleted  a speculative sentence unsupported by any source, in accordance with Wikipedia policy. I express no view on the matter, but I think it is best if the article sticks to facts. In that vein, please either delete the sentence 'They would argue that …' or quote a WP:RS that they have actually said this.--Redaktor 23:31, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Hm... how best to state things? Can we all agree that many more Haredim were anti-Zionist pre-Holocaust and Medina than post-Holocaust and Medina?  That's all stated on the anti-Zionism page.  So I think it is fair to include this historical context when quoting R' Chaim; do you disagree on WHETHER this context should be stated, or HOW it should be phrased?  If the former, well I guess we're both entitled to our opinions, I'd like to see if any other editors here have a say on the matter; if the latter, can we work on a wording that satisfies everyone?  Perhaps:

 * "Turning to their ancestors, Rabbi Chaim Brisker, who lived in a time when most Haredim were anti-Zionist, made some strong comments against Zionism"

 * I guess the question is how to get it from its current state, arguably a MPOV, to something more acceptable as an NPOV? I suppose?   TLMD13 23:12, 22 April 2007 (UTC)TLMD13

 * Our opinions do not come into it. The first thing to do is to find a source for any of these statements. Without a source it is not up to us to speculate what other people may or or may not have thought.--Redaktor 22:15, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I've reworded it, how does that look to you? The source for Haredi anti-Zionism being less prevalent today is the anti-Zionism page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TLMD13 (talk • contribs) 13:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

 * A definite improvement. Can anyone find sources?--Redaktor 22:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Sources that Haredi anti-Zionism is less prevalent today than it was in the late 1800s? Again, the anti-Zionism page mentions it.  Clearly Agudath Israel (begrudgingly perhaps) will deal with the State now, something to which it was opposed pre-WWII.  I can quote Rabbi Herschel Welcher (head of the Vaad of Queens, New York) who said that "rov minyan and rov binyan" of gedolei yisroel agreed post-Holocaust that the world was too dangerous a place to not have a Jewish state -- I'm not trying to argue that any viewpoint on the Medina is right or wrong (believe me, I don't want to pick that fight!), or that current trends are good or bad -- just quoting sources that among the overall Haredi community, anti-Zionism has become less popular.  If you want a stronger source, I'm pretty sure I saw an article in Tradition (journal of the Rabbinical Council of America) about this a few years back, but that (hasn't been pdf'd yet) will take some digging.  TLMD13 13:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)TLMD13

 * Perhaps I need to make myself clearer. There is a specific statement in this article "Rabbi Chaim is quoted … ". This statement should identify its source. (Actually the whole article is deficient in sources.) You don't have to convince me! But the article needs to conform to WP style and policy.--Redaktor 22:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Oh. The R' Chaim quotes -- they had been on the R' Chaim wikipedia page for quite a while; looks like someone has since deleted it from there.  That was my source; I haven't looked for other sources beyond that.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chaim_Soloveitchik&oldid=30320346)

 * If you want to say "delete any mention of of R' Chaim's views on Zionism until we get better sources", that's fine with me.

 * Yes, the article is messy, but there's so much here that is inherently messy, as the yeshivos aren't official institutions, there aren't good paper trails or biographies -- goodness, most Briskers barely even published anything themselves! But we can certainly try cleaning things up.  Good luck! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TLMD13 (talk • contribs) 13:11, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

R' Velvel's anti-Zionism
I had written that R' Velvel opposed a secular Zionist state; anon. IP said no, he opposed ANY Zionist state. I believe that depends how we define "Zionist": can we agree that R' Velvel said shmoneh esrei and therefore believed in some sort of eventual Jewish self-rule? So we can leave it as "opposed a secular Zionist state", or switch it to "opposed a Zionist state prior to Moshiach coming" or the like ... any other suggestions? I'm open to ideas (please, discuss first!) on this, but for starters, I'm reverting to the original "opposed a secular Zionist state." TLMD13 13:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)TLMD13

Other derachim
I'm very impressed by the learning in this article. But don't we need a shorter article under another title, giving the differences between all the different methods: Brisker, Telz, Mir etc.? I'm afraid I haven't the learning to provide this. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 15:32, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Feminism
Anon. IP deleted the story about R' Chaim signing the wedding invitation, and instead focused on the split between Brisk America and Brisk Israel today. I think any material about the earlier generations is important and should be retained. Furthermore, the phrasing used here was rather Rabbi Joseph-Dov-centered -- which is fine for his own page, but I think a bit too much for a page regarding all things Brisk. Also worth mentioning (though not necessarily here) is the distinction made between Mesechtos/Perakim that pertain to the Halachic process as we see it today (Berachos, most of Moed), and the more "theoretical" Kodshim/Nezikin/Taharos. Lastly, there's the distinction of what education is proper for most women, vs. what to do with those who go out and ask for it -- while yes most Israeli Briskers are into everything Haredi, what about the Brisker Rebbetzins/daughters themselves? I've heard that Rebbetzin Lifsha Feinstein, Shlit"s (R' Velvel's daughter) can quote you one Gemara after another about how women don't know how to learn! In light of all this, I'm going to to restore the invitation story (said over in Queens at R' Yoshe Ber's tenth yahrtzeit) and edit the remaining commentary.  Please discuss this here before making more changes.  TLMD13 16:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)TLMD13

Etymology of Soloveitchik
The article says Soloveitchik is Polish for nightingale. This is likely to be partially false, since the Polish-language cognate of that surname is słowiczek ("slovitchek", diminutive from proper słowik). Sołowiejczik is almost certainly Eastern Slavic, such as Russian or perhaps Belarussian. — 6birc (talk) 19:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Hm I guess I'd either misheard, or the lecturer who had said it (or his source) got his Slavic languages confused. Very well, I'll change it to generic "Slavic language", and let readers figure it out for themselves. TLMD13 (talk) 18:37, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

crushing soda cans?
I don't understand the bit in the article about crushing soda cans. Can someone explain it? thanks. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 01:11, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Technically, every plate, glass, pan etc needs immersion in a mikveh before you use it for the first time. I suppose the point here is that something disposable and easily crushed is exempt from this requirement; so by crushing the can after use they are confirming in their own minds that it was OK from the beginning.  But that's just my guess. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 08:50, 2 May 2012 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Villa miseria

Untitled

 * This article should incorporate content from the corresponding German Wikipedia article (Villa Miseria).

German-to-English
If you understand German, see Villa Miseria. From what little I get of German, I see there's a lot of content that is not mentioned here (stats and figures). Unfortunately the editor(s) of the German article did not include sources... --Pablo D. Flores 11:24, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

PS to myself:

I used an online translator on the German text. The result was pretty much some horrific English, but I could make sense of the first part and got this (with some additions and rewordings):

 * The highest proportion of inhabitants in marginal settlements (more than 15%) is found in Rosario's metropolitan area. This proportion is between 8 and 10% in Buenos Aires and Córdoba.

 * Even though criminality in the villas is significantly higher than in wealthier neighborhoods, it is not comparable to that of Brazilian favelas. There is little, if any, organized gang warfare. Villas miseria, however, are considered by most citizens as havens for criminals, from minor thieves to drug dealers.

The rest was even worse:

 * For decades efforts are undertaken by the government, the situation in much-read Miserias to improve. So who that in flood areas settlements often in subsidized low-rent housing quarters, lain, resettled, more favorably lain in the context of a Promeba (Programa de Mejoramiento de Barrios) of program mentioned after Brazilian model landed property conditions are legalisiert and the infrastructure (river, drinking water, WCs) is improved. The most gigantic resettlement program plans at present Rosario, there is in several steps more than 40,000 subsidized low-rent housings to be built, in order to eliminate the problem of the Verslumung.

The problem with this text is its currency and verifiability. I have no idea whether these data are correct as of today. I seriously doubt that the figures still hold. In a 1996 document I found on the net, it says Rosario has a 25% of the population living in villas miseria (but this is Rosario, pop ~910,000, not the Greater Rosario, ~1.3M). Undoubtedly more people have fallen under the poverty line in these 9 years, but also the government has regularized some settlements or moved people to legal terrains.

I also got a very good source (El derecho a la vivienda en Argentina, Informe misión de investigación, 2004 (in Spanish), Centre of Housing Rights and Evictions (COHRE) and I'm placing some of the info in the article now. The German article might have valuable data still.

--Pablo D. Flores 12:32, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Check www.promeba.org.ar. -Mariano

Immigrants?
""and a smaller number are recent immigrants from neighbouring countries (especially Paraguay and more recently Bolivia). ""

a small number???? lol at least half of them are immigrants or their children and granchildrens

I'll look for the data in a while. But I read this like a lot of times, Where do you think that most of the 2 millions Bolivians in Buenos AIres live?

-Trelew Girl-

 * I seriously doubt there are 2 million Bolivians in Buenos Aires. To begin with, INDEC says that there are 316,739 people born abroad in Buenos Aires City, plus 596,766 in the rest of Greater Buenos Aires. That makes 900,000 people. Even if they were all Bolivians (!) and half of them had lied to the census recorders, there wouldn't be 2 million. As for where they live, remember that low-quality pensions and many types of precarious homes are not considered villas miserias.

 * Furthermore, the article is about Argentina, not BA only. Outside BA, I'd say that most of those who live in villas are internal migrants (in Rosario and Santa Fe, in particular, people from Chaco).

 * I suggest everyone that we avoid simplistic assertions and discriminatory statements, and treat the subject with the proper respect. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 14:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

You doubt it? really? go outside lol.

Anyway here you have numbers, in other places says 2 millions i'll found them later, anyway if you add the Paraguayans (they are even more than the bolivians!!!) and the Peruvians. You have a great number around 4 million according to the govermment and obvously they live in villa at least i can speak fo Buenos Aires and Cordoba.

""Con cerca de 1.200.000 inmigrantes y descendientes, la comunidad boliviana es la segunda con mayor presencia en el país, después de la paraguaya. Unos 300 mil bolivianos lograron la radicación. Y el resto espera el lento proceso de blanqueo que anunció el Gobierno.""

http://www.clarin.com/suplementos/zona/2006/02/26/z-03416.htm

-Trelew Girl-

 * Please sign your posts using four tildes ~ . Where's the source of Clarín's claim? I mean, is there an official or otherwise trustable source for those figures? Moreover, "Bolivian community" does not equate "Bolivians living in villas miseria". BTW even Clarín cut your "2 million in BA" to "1.2 million in Argentina".

 * As to your suggestion to "go outside", I don't live in Buenos Aires so it wouldn't be useful. And subjective impressions about the number of Bolivian-looking people in the streets (!) are not useful either. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 11:32, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It cut my "2 millions" because it's counting Bolivian natives, if you count their children they are even more than 2 millions.

I know that we can't put our experiences as sources but I've lived in Buenos Aires for 21 years, I went to a school two blocks away from the largest shanty town in BA, and about 70% of the children were Bolivian/Peruvian/Paraguayan or children of them. I've read an article this year in "La Nación" it says that about 70% of other big shanty town in BA were Peruvians or Bolivians.

Anyway, I'll find you more reliable sources later.

(Talk)</

 * See the tables I included in Talk:Buenos Aires. The good ol' INDEC says there are exactly 119,114 Bolivian-born people in Buenos Aires and the GBA. Many, of course, have had children (and grandchildren), but those were born in Argentina and therefore are not Bolivians. Some came decades ago, probably became naturalized, and probably do not identify themselves with the Bolivian community anymore. Clarín says "1.2 million Bolivians and descendants", so it is counting both the natives and their offspring. And we don't know where they got their data from.
 * The above is just for the record. I'm sick and tired of discussing this particular issue without verifiable hard facts. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 13:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Origin of the name?
Verbitsky 1957? The name was known before 1952 during Perón's first 2 periods, when he made them invisible by building surrounding high walls. Jclerman 01:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you cite any reference about this? User:Ejrrjs says What? 22:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't found yet a published reference. First, let me precise my statement to avoid historic confusion. Peron didn't built the walls himself, but they were built during his regime. Since it was an authoritarian regime I assumed he ordered and/or knew about the walls. I saw printed articles in the mid 50s, but I don't recall the names of the magazines and/or newspapers (some of the rare independent press published then in Bs.As.). One article, in particular, had photographs. I do recall, vividly, having seen them. I mean both the photographs and the wall: it surrounded completely the Villa, with a narrow lateral or back opening not visible from the main road. I saw it several times in a Villa Miseria located, roughly, in the area of La Boca/Riachuelo. In the 50s, students of ciencias exactas and sociologia had programs of extension universitaria. Engineering students taught classes of technical subjects (construction, electricity, plumbing) in order to empower the dwellers (a) to get better paying jobs (than being unemployed and scavenging rubbish dumps) and (b) to build modest dwellings (to replace the cardboard & tin shacks). The sociology students were doing counseling and representing the (largely illiterate) dwellers, and teaching reading/writing skills and, many times, caring for the children.  Needless to say, these activities were neither sponsored by the university nor by the regime. In fact, they were considered subversive by the regime. They were abruptly interrupted in 1954 when the university was attacked and depleted of docents, while 200 students were jailed, some after being abused or tortured. If you are in Bs. As., you should be able to find  collections of magazines and newspapers of the 1950s in some library. I don't have access to such material in Tucson, Arizona, EEUU, where I reside. Instead I'm reviewing like 100 meters of shelving space, in the university library, with books about the period, in order to document my memoirs (ms in progress). --Jclerman 00:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:SQUAT
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WP:SQUAT
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:08, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Villa 31 Buenos Aires.jpg

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Credibility of INDEC
"The Government's statistics agency (INDEC) announced in 2016 that 8.8 million people, 32.2% of the population, were living in poverty. This was a dramatic leap in numbers from the 4.7% people living in poverty just three years before."

The INDEC lacked any credibility at the time when the 4.7% figure was released. In fact, that very same figure is continuously used to illustrate how ridiculous the data published by INDEC had become. There was no 'dramatic' leap in poverty from 2013 to 2016; instead, it was a return to normalcy in the measurement of it. 200.61.165.210 (talk) 20:43, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Villa miseria


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Ceca 2000

Ceca 2000 (or simply 2000) is the tenth studio album by Serbian singer Ceca. It was released on 29 December 1999 by PGP-RTS.

Overview
The official release of the album took place on 29 December 1999, on the same day Ceca presented the album at the Intercontinental Hotel in Belgrade. The singer held a press conference and also performed several new songs, including "Crveno" and "Crni sneg" in a duet with Aca Lukas. The singer also announced that the album was released in a circulation of 295 thousand copies: 265 thousand on cassettes and 30 thousand on CDs. At the same time, Ceca presented the official calendar for 2000, which was attached as a gift to Pink revija magazine. The photos used for the album cover and calendar were taken by Dejan Milićević. Two music videos "Dokaz" and "Crveno" were also released and both shot by Milićević. In addition, videos were shot for the songs "Oproštajna večera" and "Votka sa utehom", but they were never released. A website www.ceca2000.co.yu was specially launched to promote the album, which became one of the first music sites in Yugoslavia, today the site is no longer active. On 12 January 2000, the singer made her first appearance on television with new material in the Maksovizija program on Pink TV.

Further promotion of the album stopped on 15 January 2000, when Ceca's husband, Željko Ražnatović, was killed.

Critical reception
In 2018, Dragan Marinković from Leskovačke Vesti, when compiling the rating of the "50 best folk albums of all time", placed the album in thirty-second place, noting that it is one of the best albums of both Ceca and the entire Balkan pop-folk music.

Personnel

 * Ceca – vocals
 * Dragan Kovačević Struja – accordion, arrangement, keyboards
 * Dragan Ivanović – acoustic guitar, bass guitar, keyboards
 * Aleksandar Milić – arrangement, production
 * Đorđe Janković – arrangement, co-production, keyboards, mastering, programming, mixing
 * Aleksandar Radulović – backing vocals, guitar
 * Džej Ramadanovski – backing vocals
 * Maja Marković – backing vocals
 * Trio "Passage" – backing vocals
 * Ivica Maksimović – bouzouki
 * Dobrinko Popić – guitar
 * Dragan Ristevski – trumpet
 * Nebojša Ivanović – trumpet

Credits are adapted from the album's liner notes.

title: Ceca 2000


text:
User talk:Fartman~enwiki

A Fartman is someone that sits in a chair and saves the world by farting.

He can fart in various ways such as silently and powerfully or loud and smelly.

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles will be removed quickly. Please see the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks, Blu Aardvark | (talk) 11:27, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. --Blu Aardvark | (talk) 11:39, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

;)
Come on Fartman! Win it for the gipper!

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title: User talk:Fartman~enwiki