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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Team Quest

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. Postdlf 23:26, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Team Quest
Unencyclopedic, possibly vanity page. Delete. g026r 02:26, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete as per nominator. -mysekurity 02:53, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn royblumy 05:05, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non notable promo. JamesBurns 08:14, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. One-sentence articles should be speedy criteria.  Almafeta 07:36, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


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Missak Manouchian

Missak Manouchian (Միսաք Մանուշեան;, 1 September 1909 – 21 February 1944) was an Armenian poet and communist activist. A survivor of the 1915–1916 Armenian genocide, he moved to France from an orphanage in Lebanon in 1925. He was active in communist Armenian literary circles. During World War II, he became the military commissioner of FTP-MOI, a group consisting of European immigrants, including many Jews, in the Paris Region which carried out assassinations and bombings of Nazi targets. According to one author, the Manouchian group was the most active one of the French Resistance. Manouchian and many of his comrades were arrested in November 1943 and executed by the Nazis at Fort Mont-Valérien on 21 February 1944. He is considered a hero of the French Resistance and was entombed in the Panthéon in Paris.

Early life
Manouchian is registered as being born on 1 September 1906 in Adıyaman, in Mamuret-ul-Aziz Vilayet, Ottoman Empire into an Armenian peasant family. It was discovered in February 2024 that he was in fact born in 1909, when pages from his notebooks, discovered in May 2023 by his family at the Charents Museum of Literature and Arts, were obtained at the last minute for the exhibition celebrating his transfer to the Panthéon, and exhibited although not yet exploited by French researchers, as they were written in Armenian: his great-grandniece Hasmik Manouchian read in an entry dated February 1935 that he was 25. She said that this corroborated family stories that he had made himself older by three years, as he was not 18 when he arrived in France, but 15, too young to be allowed to work. The historian Denis Peschanski, who curated the exhibition, pointed out that this was relatively common for immigrants to France at the time. His tomb at the Panthéon, installed a short time before, is engraved with the date 1906.

His parents were killed during the Armenian genocide of 1915, but he and his brother managed to survive. In the early 1920s he settled in an Armenian General Benevolent Union-run orphanage in Jounieh, Lebanon, then a French protectorate. He acquired education there and in 1925 moved to France.

Eventually, Manouchian settled in Paris, where he took a job as a lathe operator at a Citroën plant. During this period he was self-educated and often visited libraries in the Latin Quarter. He joined the General Confederation of Labour (Confédération Générale du Travail, CGT), a national association of trade unions which was the first of the five major French confederations. In the early 1930s, when the world-wide economic crisis of the Great Depression set in, Missak Manouchian lost his job. Disaffected with capitalism, he began earning a meager living by posing as a model for sculptors.

Political and literary career
In 1934, Manouchian joined the French Communist Party. From 1935 to 1937 he edited the Armenian-language left-wing weekly newspaper Zangou, named after a river in Armenia. The newspaper was anti-fascist, anti-Dashnak, anti-imperialist and pro-Soviet.

Manouchian wrote poetry and, with an Armenian friend who used the pseudonym of Séma (Kégham Atmadjian), founded two communist-leaning literary magazines, Tchank ("Effort") and Mechagouyt ("Culture"). They published articles on French literature and Armenian culture. The two young men translated the poetry of Baudelaire, Verlaine, and Rimbaud into Armenian, making many of these works available in Armenian for the first time. Both Manouchian and Séma enrolled at the Sorbonne to follow courses in literature, philosophy, economics, and history.

The following year, he was elected secretary of the Relief Committee for Armenia (HOC), an organization associated with the MOI (Immigrant Workforce Movement). At a meeting of the HOC in 1935, he met Mélinée Assadourian, who became his companion and, later, his wife.

World War II

When the Second World War broke out in September 1939 Manouchian was arrested for his suspect communist ties, but was released in October and conscripted into the French 4th Specialist Training Company and dispatched to Brittany. After the defeat of June 1940, he returned to Paris to find that his militant activities had become illegal. (French authorities had banned the Communist Party as early as September 1939.) On 22 June 1941, when the invasion of the Soviet Union by the Nazis began, Manouchian was arrested by the occupying Germans in an anti-communist round-up in Paris. Interned in a prison camp at Compiègne, by the efforts of his wife Mélinée Assadourian, he was released after a few weeks without being charged.

Manouchian became the political chief of the Armenian section of the underground MOI, but little is known about his activities until 1943. In February of that year, Manouchian transferred to the FTP-MOI, a group of gunmen and saboteurs attached to the MOI in Paris.

Manouchian became the leader of the FTP-MOI in June/August 1943, replacing Boris Holban. Manouchian assumed command of three detachments, totaling about 50 fighters. The Manouchian group is credited with the assassination on 28 September 1943, of General Julius Ritter, the assistant in France to Fritz Sauckel, responsible for the mobilization and deportation of labor under the German STO (Obligatory Work Service) in Nazi-occupied Europe. (The attack was made by the partisans Marcel Rayman, Léo Kneller, and Celestino Alfonso.) The Manouchian groups carried out almost thirty successful attacks on German interests from August to November 1943. Charles Aznavour and his family were members of the Manouchian resistance group, and were recognized after the war for rescuing Jews and Armenians from Nazi persecution.

Arrest and execution
On 16 November 1943, the collaborationist French police forces arrested the Manouchian group at Évry-Petit Bourg. His companion, Mélinée, managed to escape the police.

Manouchian and the others were tortured to gain information, and eventually handed over to the Germans' Geheime Feldpolizei (GFP). The 23 were given a 1944 show trial for propaganda purposes before execution. Manouchian and 21 of his comrades were shot at Fort Mont-Valérien near Paris on 21 February 1944. The remaining group member, Olga Bancic, was deported to Stuttgart and beheaded there in May 1944.

In his last letter to his wife, Mélinée, Manouchian said that he forgave everyone except the one who betrayed us to save his skin and those who sold us. "There was consensus that they were betrayed by one of their number, Joseph Davidovitch, who was arrested and tortured by the Nazis (before being released and shot by the Resistance). But some survivors also felt the French Communist Party had sacrificed the unit by refusing to smuggle vital Jewish combatants out of Paris after the French police began to tail them."

Photographs of French Resistance agents facing a firing squad of Nazi officers were discovered in December 2009, and Serge Klarsfeld identified them as Manouchian and his group members. The photographs began being permanently exhibited at Fort Mont-Valérien in June 2010.

L'Affaire Manouchian
In June 1985, a television documentary by Mosco Boucault with the historian Stéphane Courtois working as a consultant entitled Des terroristes à la retraite (Terrorists in Retirement) was aired. The documentary started an intense dispute over the identity of the informer who betrayed Manouchian and the rest of groupe Manouchian in 1943. In the documentary, Mélinée Manouchian accused Boris Holban of being the informer. In the 1986 book L'Affaire Manouchian by Philippe Robrieux, Holban was accused of being a member of an "ultra-secret special apparatus" within the PCF that took its orders from the Kremlin and that Holban had betrayed the groupe Manouchian on orders from Moscow. The French journalist Alexandre Adler, in a series of articles in the Socialist newspaper Le Matin, defended Holban, arguing that he was not in Paris in the fall of 1943 and thus was not in a position to know the address of Manouchian or anyone else in his group. Adler drew attention to a 1980 article in the Romanian journal Magazin istoric by the FTP-MOI intelligence chief Cristina Luca Boico, where she mentions that Holban was leading a maquis band in the Ardennes in November 1943 and had not been in Paris for some time. L'Affaire Manouchian was finally settled in the 1990s when French police records were opened, revealing that Joseph Davidowicz, a resistance fighter who was arrested and then released by the Gestapo, was the informer who betrayed Manouchian. Davidowicz was later killed by fellow resistance members, who accused him of spying for the Germans.

Recognition
Following World War II, Armenians were perceived in France positively "solely in the reflective light of Missak Manouchian, who played an important role in the French anti-Nazi resistance." Manouchian is a prominent figure in the bilateral relations between Armenia and France.

In 2007, an exhibition dedicated to Manouchian was held at the Musée Jean Moulin in Paris in the scope of the Year of Armenia in France. On 21 February 2014, on the 70th anniversary of the execution of Manouchian and his group, a commemoration ceremony was held at Fort Mont-Valérien. Notable attendees included French President François Hollande, Armenian Foreign Minister Eduard Nalbandyan and prominent French-Armenian singer Charles Aznavour. On 13 March 2014, the Missak Manouchian Park was opened in central Yerevan, the Armenian capital, in attendance of Presidents Serzh Sargsyan and Hollande.

On 5 March 1955, a street named for the Manouchian Group (fr) was dedicated in the 20th arrondissement of Paris.

In 1978, a statue of Manouchian sculpted by Ara Harutyunyan was opened in the military cemetery of Ivry-sur-Seine, Paris.

A commemorative plaque was installed on 22 February 2009 at 11 rue de Plaisance, in the 14th arrondissement of Paris. The old hotel at this address was the last home shared by Manouchian and his wife, Mélinée.

In February 2010, busts of Manouchian were inaugurated in Marseille, in a square named after him, and in Issy-les-Moulineaux. In June 2014, the memorial in Marseille was defaced with a swastika. Two far-right activists, who admitted their participation, were sentenced to 100 hours of community service in January 2015.

Due to his communist ideology, Manouchian was immediately recognized as a hero in the Soviet Union. Soviet Armenian author Marietta Shaginyan described him as an "example of an Armenian who preserved his nationality, and at the same time became a class-conscious worker and a militant communist in his adopted country." Russian poet Sergei Shervinsky hailed him in a 1956 Ogoniok article as a "Fighter, Worker, Poet". A school in Yerevan, Armenia—founded in 1947—was named for Manouchian in 1963.

Pantheonization
In January 2022 a campaign was launched by Nicolas Daragon, mayor of Valence, Drôme, and Jean-Pierre Sakoun, president of Comité Laïcité République, and others to move Manouchian's ashes to the Panthéon. Supporters included Katia Guiragossian, a great-niece of Missak and Mélinée Manouchian, sociologist Nathalie Heinich, historian Denis Peschanski, and others. It further gained the support of the mayors of Paris and Marseille Anne Hidalgo and Benoît Payan,   former French ambassador to Armenia Jonathan Lacôte, and MPs from various parties. In March 2022 Europe 1 reported that French President Emmanuel Macron was planning pantheonization of Manouchian. A close presidential adviser was quoted as saying: "This file is at the top of the pile." Le Monde reported Macron met with supporters of the campaign on March 30, 2022 at the Élysée Palace and several days later, Macron said of Manouchian: "I think he is a very great figure and that makes a lot of sense." Early 2024 is being discussed the likely date of the ceremony in commemoration of the 80th anniversary of his execution or the Normandy landings. Missak Manouchian and his wife Mélinée were entombed in the Panthéon on 21 February 2024 for the commemoration of his execution's 80th anniversary. He became the first foreign Resistance fighter and first communist to enter the Panthéon.

In popular culture

 * In 1955, Louis Aragon wrote a poem, "Strophes pour se souvenir", loosely inspired by the last letter that Manouchian wrote to his wife Mélinée. In 1959 Léo Ferré set the poem to music and recorded it under the title "L'Affiche rouge".
 * In the 2009 novel Missak by Didier Daeninckx, set in 1955, a journalist investigates who betrayed Manouchian and discovers the informer was Boris Bruhman, a thinly disguised version of Boris Holban.
 * Films
 * The 1985 film Terrorists in Retirement (Des terroristes à la retraite) offers speculations on why "beginning in 1943, the [French] Communist Party began deliberately dispatching the partisans [including the Manouchian group] on missions that their Communist leaders knew would lead to their arrest and probable execution."
 * The 2009 film The Army of Crime (L'Armée du crime), directed by Robert Guédiguian, is dedicated to Manouchian and his group. In the film, Manouchian appears as the hero, and many parallels are drawn between the Armenian genocide and the Holocaust as the film emphasizes Manouchian's opposition to genocide in the Second World War because he was a survivor of genocide in the First World War. In a review of L'Armée du crime in Le Monde on 15 November 2009, the French historian Stéphane Courtois complained that the film wrongly portrayed Manouchian as an "anti-Stalinist" communist and the film was unrealistic in that it had Manouchian casually and routinely violating the rules of clandestine activity. The British historian Gawin Bowd described the film as part of a tendency to move away from the traditional gallocentric view of résistancialiste where resistance in France was entirely the work of the French. However, Bowd noted that the way in which L'Armée du crime portrays Manouchian as a martyr who mort pour la France (died for France) does suggest that Manouchian was more of a French hero than an Armenian one as the "ultimate horizon of Frenchness remains".
 * Missak Manouchian, une esquisse de portrait (2012) is a documentary directed by Michel Ionascu.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Missak Manouchian


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Manđelos

Manđelos (Манђелос) is a village located in the Sremska Mitrovica municipality, in the Syrmia District of Vojvodina, Serbia. The village has a Serb ethnic majority and its population numbering 1,533 people (2002 census).

Name
In Serbian, the village is known as Manđelos or Манђелос and by the Hungarians as Nagyolaszi or Nagyolasz.

Notable people

 * Miroslav Bogosavac is from Manđelos
 * Boško Palkovljević Pinki is from Manđelos
 * Svetozar Đanić

Historical population

 * 1961: 1,263
 * 1971: 1,418
 * 1981: 1,516
 * 1991: 1,470

title: Manđelos


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tim Myers

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was speedily deleted as short contentless article. jni 05:57, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Tim Myers
This page is obviously vanity and should be deleted. Peter1219 | Talk 02:37, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

whats a vanity page? I dont think this should be deleted. Ō

A vanity page is an article that is written about a non-notable subject, usually one affiliated with the author, whose only purpose is promotion. And you're only stating this article should stay because you're its author, as your IP page shows: Special:Contributions/68.46.196.69

 * Delete and sugguest that the user copy this to his userpage. -mysekurity 02:53, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Userfy if possible, else delete. Dcarrano 03:04, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete Vanity, nn royblumy 05:05, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete As per royblumy --Atratus 05:24, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I have speedy deleted it. Entire content was: "Hello welcome to the page about me. Please call me "Tim" becuz thats like a lot cooler than Timothy. Anyway I'm cool... more coming later." jni 05:57, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


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Brandon Whitt

Brandon Whitt (born October 15, 1982) is an American former stock car racing driver. A third-generation racer, he has run in all three of NASCAR's top divisions. He is the older cousin of former NASCAR Cup Series driver Cole Whitt.

Racing career
Whitt won the Rookie of the Year title in NASCAR's Southwest Touring division in 2002 while attending college, and made his Craftsman Truck Series debut in 2003, driving the #38 Chevrolet Silverado for Clean Line Motorsports, a team his father owned. He finished thirteenth in his debut, and ran six additional races that season, his best finish a thirteenth at California Speedway.

In 2004, Whitt and his team ran the Truck Series full-time with sponsorship from McMillin Homes and running Ford F-150s. Despite not finishing any race higher than 12th in his rookie season, Whitt finished 19th in the final standings.

During the 2005 season, his team was purchased by Jeff Hammond and Tom DeLoach, renamed Red Horse Racing and switched to Toyota. He won his first race at Memphis Motorsports Park (from the pole) after taking the lead from a spinning Ron Hornaday Jr. on the last lap. He was dismissed from the team at the end of the season, leaving him out of a ride. However, Whitt soon signed with ARCA Racing Series team CLR Racing. In 2006, he attempted his first NEXTEL Cup race at Phoenix International Raceway with CJM Racing and qualified 37th, but finished 43rd. He was scheduled to run with CJM for 12 races in 2007, but those plans changed when Whitt was released from the ride. Whitt drove one race later that season for Red Horse at Atlanta, where he finished twenty-third.

Midway through 2008, he signed to drive for Specialty Racing in the Nationwide Series. On June 22, 2009, Whitt announced that he has left Specialty Racing and the #61 team. He has not raced since.

NASCAR
(key) ( Bold – Pole position awarded by qualifying time. Italics – Pole position earned by points standings or practice time. * – Most laps led. )

ARCA Re/Max Series
(key) ( Bold – Pole position awarded by qualifying time. Italics – Pole position earned by points standings or practice time. * – Most laps led. )

title: Brandon Whitt


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Talk:Window Manager

Vote for Deletion
This article was turned into a redirect as a result of a debate at Votes for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 02:27, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Window Manager


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User talk:Honorius

I noticed that ~99% of your edits have been the removal of a template listing various info. This seems to only pertain to porn stars. If you have a problem with the template, why don't you change the templates? You're removing a lot of info that is encyclopedic such as place of birth, birthdate, etc. at the same time that you take out the templates. Dismas 02:28, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, the women's physical dimensions are part of what has gained them their notoriety. It's part of how they've made a living, so why not include their bust size or weight? Dismas

Welcome!
Hi Honorius! Welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you enjoy it here.

I understand that you have an issue with the Female adult bio. In the summaries of the pages you edited, you claim that it is somehow unencyclopedic. Can you please tell us why you believe this is? As the cliche goes, I'm all ears.

I believe that you are trying to be bold, removing something that you believe has no place here. However, I would very much like you to review Wikiquette, if you haven't already done so. Unfortunately, in your attempt at boldness, you've stepped on some people's feet -- including my own. Having done a few mistakes myself, I understand where you are coming from.

All in all, one of the things I am most concerned about is your lack of an attempt to communicate your beliefs to your fellow contributors. We're all open here and we promote communication -- hence the talk pages, the second most important facet of the Wikipedia short of the articles themselves.

If you feel like talking about your views on the template, feel free to do so either here, on my talk page, or on the template's talk page. My door, as it were, is always open -- feel free to walk right in and strike a chat! Thanks and cheers! -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. 03:13, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I DO plan on responding to this, I've been busy lately. I assume that you have restored the figures etc so there is no rush. I will explain myself as soon as I get a chance.

title: User talk:Honorius


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Park Kultury (Sokolnicheskaya line)

Park Kultury (Парк Культу́ры, Park of Culture) is a Moscow Metro station in the Khamovniki District, Central Administrative Okrug, Moscow. It is on the Sokolnicheskaya line, between Frunzenskaya and Kropotkinskaya stations. Named after the nearby Maxim Gorky Park of Culture and Leisure located across the Moskva River.

The station was designed by Nikolai Kolli and opened on 15 May 1935, along with the first phase of the Moscow Metro.

History
The construction of the station began in the spring of 1933. From the start it was clear that construction of this final station would not be an easy task. Being only several hundred metres from the bank of the Moskva River, the soil was particularly damp, with the level of subterranean waters being higher than the future ceiling of the station.

Even more important was that the station is situated under the Crimean Square (Krymskaya Ploshchad) of the Garden Ring's intersection with the southwestern Ostozhenka Street/Komsomolsky Avenue and thus being an important traffic hub. Before the pit of the station was excavated along its future perimeter, metallic casts reinforced by solid logs with caulked slits between them were forced into the ground, and abyssal water lowering was employed as the pit was slowly excavated to its required depth. All of this was necessary to prevent the flooding of the pit, which was likely to have caused subsidence and even destruction of nearby houses. As soon as that work was completed, a wooden bridge was erected at street level to prevent traffic disruption. Most of the construction was carried out at night. The station was completed in eleven months during which time 100,000 cubic metres of soil was removed from the pit and replaced with 25,000 cubic metres of concrete.

The station is a bi-level pillar-trispan with four footbridges above the platforms. Architects Krutikov and Popov chose a decoration inspired by ancient Greek elements. Along the platform, two rows of 22 pillars are faced with Crimean marble Kadykovka and topped with moulded сapitals. Along the walls a set of dark rose-coloured mosaic pilasters repeat the step of the pillars (every seven metres), blending very well with the porcelain tiles that face the rest of the wall area. Also, a dark-brown mosaic socle runs below the platform level along both walls. A total of 1500 square meters of marble, and 200 square metres of porcelain tiles, were used in the decorations.

The footbridges which lead to the vestibules are separately decorated with red metalloplastic tiles and moulded white balustrades with marbled railings. The walls of the corridors leading to the vestibules are revetted with white uralian koelga marble. The station originally had two vestibules, one of which, a distinctive rotunda building, still stands on the corner between Ostozhenka street and Novokrymskiy side-street. The second vestibule used to stand on the corner of Komsmolskiy Avenue and Sadovoye Koltso. The ticket hall was faced with brown Ural ufaley marble and had four welded octagonal columns faced with white koelga marble. The ticket offices themselves were built out of polished oak. This vestibule was pulled down in 1949 when a larger vestibule was erected in its place, and the old corridors were integrated into it. The vestibule also offers a transfer to the Koltsevaya line, which was opened in 1950.

This station is one of the few surviving from the first stage that have remained more or less unchanged since their opening (compared with Lubyanka or Chistiye Prudy), except for the resurfacing the platform with granite (instead of original asphalt) and the installation of new lighting. The latter consisted of beautiful chandeliers in the central span and semi-circular lamps made of milk-white glass in side naves. However, with the introduction of luminescent lamps, the chandeliers and the lamps in the naves were completely removed. Despite that, the new lighting installations managed to fit in with the architectural composition and do not appear out of place, like on Kiyevskaya which had an analogous makeover.

When the station opened in 1935, it was also the terminus of the Frunze Branch of the first stage (and from 1938, of Kirovsko–Frunzenskaya line). Although the plans called for the station to have a four-track reversal siding, that was not finished until 1937, and a temporary piston junction was instead installed before the platform to allow reversal of the trains. The station ceased to be the terminus in 1957, with the extension of the Frunzenskiy radius southwestward to Sportivnaya.

When the station was opened, it had quite a long name: Tsentralnyi Park Kultury i Otdykha imeni Gorkogo (The Maxim Gorky Central Park of Culture and Leisure). However, even on the plans it was abbreviated as TsPKiO and only voice announcements used the full name. In 1980, with the holding of the Olympic Games in Moscow, the name was shortened to avoid lengthy trilingual station announcements, although some signs still bear the original long version of the name.

The station is used by 107,700 people daily, mainly passengers changing to and from Park Kultury on the Circle line, with only 9,650 passengers entering and leaving the Metro system at the station.

On March 29, 2010, the station, along with Lubyanka, was subject to a terrorist attack, resulting in 40 casualties.

title: Park Kultury (Sokolnicheskaya line)


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Missouri Route 181

Route 181 is a highway in southern Missouri. Its southern terminus is at US 160 in Gainesville in Ozark County. It passes through eastern Douglas County and reaches its northern terminus at Business U.S. Route 60 in Cabool in Texas County.

Route description
Route 181 begins at an intersection with US 160 near Gainesville and heads northeast, intersecting Route 80. The route passes by Caney Mountain Conservation Area before passing through Zanoni and crossing over Pine Creek. It then passes through Sycamore, past the Hodgson Mill and continues northeast. It then heads due north through Dora in Ozark County and meets Route 14. The route then runs concurrent with Route 14 for 4.8 mi until meeting the twin bridges at the North Fork River and Spring Creek.The two bridges on Route 14 are separated by an 880-foot-wide (270 m) low point in a north–south trending ridge between the North Fork River and its tributary Spring Creek to the east. Then, the route continues north until meeting up with Route 76 and runs concurrent with it for about 3.5 mi. It then continues north until it approaches Cabool. It interchanges with US 60 before crossing over the Big Piney River and reaching its northern terminus at US 60 Business.

title: Missouri Route 181


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Talk:Nordic Council

Area + population ranks
I'm not sure what "ranked 19th" and "ranked 45th" on these are for... It doesn't seem to be correct either, after following the links. I personally don't think this union should have a rank among individual countries anyway. -- Jugalator 02:29, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * I hope it's okay that I removed those stated ranks. The ranks are just misleading, since other countries occupy those particular ranks. The lists are meant for single countries. But if there were to be lists of unions of countries ranked according to area and population, the Nordic Council could be ranked there then. Mad Greg 21:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

User:Jmw0000's edit
This edit by Jmw0000 effectively undid a prior edit made by me. Jmw0000, your edit summary simply stated ''rv. vandalism''. This inappropriate use of both the edit summary and the term vandalism irritates me. I strongly advise you not to use "vandalism" as an epithet, but only refer to an edit as such if it is beyond reasonable doubt that the edit in question does in fact constitute vandalism. I have now restored my prior edit, and will be keeping a watchful eye on this talk page to see if you are going to explain your grievances here or post any constructive suggestions for how the article might be improved.  BigAdamsky | TALK | EDITS |  13:49, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

 * The reason for it wasn't to attack you; my assumption was that user 151.188.16.40 vandalized the page, and I missed the continuance of the page at the bottom when I saw the edit. I was following this user around and reverting his edits.  This was my error of not looking at either page closely.  For that I apologize.  I was simply not being a good editor. And chill, you're allowed to revert things without getting all uppity.  If you want to bother me again, try making it something important, rather than something borderline childish. J. M. 15:21, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Noted. Happy editing.  BigAdamsky | TALK | EDITS |  16:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

NORDEK
Some sources (Laursen for example) suggest that it was Denmark that proposed the creation of the Nordic Economic Union (NORDEK) at the Nordic council session in 1968. If so, could we include this into the text? RedZebra 17:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Nordic Council's Film Prize
Please, mention or create an article about the Nordic Council's Film Prize. If it exists under another name, please, let me know. Hoverfish Talk 15:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Nordic Council Film Prize--JBellis (talk) 17:25, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Overlap
This article has some overlap with Nordic Passport Union. --Apoc2400 11:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Scottish Islands?
What Scottish islands are the ones referred to, who have supposedly yet to take an interest in joining the Nordic Council? Surely such islands would not be able to join without the rest of Scotland and Britian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.175.133 (talk) 15:19, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I would assume that is primarily a reference to Shetland and Orkney, both former Norwegian possessions. -- Nidator T / C 04:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I have deleted the reference to Germany, Netherlands and Scottish islands not showing an interest in joining. This is clearly a non-story 92.12.208.70 (talk) 12:12, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Confusion
Both this article and the official website is a tad fuzzy on details. From what I gather looking through the website though, the Nordic Council and the Nordic Council of Ministers are two separate bodies, the former being a parliamentary assembly (the fact it is composed of delegations of national MPs is unmentioned in this article) and the other being the intergovernmental forum referred to in the lead. We then also have a Nordic investment bank and a Nordic cultural fund that go unmentioned but what I can't find out is how all these institutions are linked, is there an umbrella organisation or are they largely independent, held together by solid Nordic reliability and common membership? Furthermore, there seems no mention of the autonomous territories as "associate" members, but rather they are shown as joining on certain dates but being included in the member totals of the main member states.

Can someone clarify all this? I'm utterly confused by this organisation. Is there a better source of data than the official site?- J.Logan`t : 11:14, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Nordic Council
has been nominated for deletion -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 01:27, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Nordic Council. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150218024134/http://www.norden.org/webb/news/news.asp?lang=6&id=6795 to http://www.norden.org/webb/news/news.asp?id=6795&lang=6

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Should Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania be added to the map?
(Apologies if I'm doing this wrong, I'm new to editing).

Should the Baltic States be added to the map since they are Observers, maybe in a different colour? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emil2205 (talk • contribs) 17:15, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * No, they are not members of the Nordic Council and not Nordic countries. --Bjerrebæk (talk) 00:07, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Where exactly in academic research does it say that being a member of The Nordic Council is a prerequisite of being defined as a "Nordic country"? Scandinavia, Norden, Nordic - those are three different words with three different meanings. See Nordic race for where the "nordic" term got started. The Scandinavian countries then later decided to unilaterally use that word for the Nordic Council in 1952. SørenKierkegaard (talk) 13:05, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * In any case, I don't see why observer countries shouldn't be added to the map, in a different color. It seems that would be an improvement. GeoEvan (talk) 09:02, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree with GeoEvan. And here's a direct reference in case any editor is doubting the existence of the observer status. SørenKierkegaard (talk) 21:01, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I've restored the observer states to the article based on this information, regardless of the status of the map. 2606:6000:6793:7500:9854:8D3:6B7D:1DBC (talk) 05:48, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

The user User:Gaduse keeps persisting on trying to censor any mention of Baltic states in any Nordic-related articles with a clear agenda-driven mindset. Despite being explicitly told to use the talk page next time, the user ignored it and reapplied the same purge the user has applied multiple times in the past. As far as I know the user has not once participated in this talk page, instead using talks in the Nordic countries talk page as an excuse to repeat the same kinds of edits unilaterally, not understanding that the Nordic Council isn't a necessary equivalent to the Nordic countries. In the previous edit to the Nordic Council article, the user's edit reason claims that "This issue has been debated to death" despite no such consensus has been found in this talk page, and the article was left intact until this single user purged the relevant information. The user also has a long history of accusing the editors that try to have fair mention of Estonia or the Baltic states in such articles of "Estonian nationalism" and such (as an aside, I find that ironic since the user seems to be pushing some kind of Norwegian or pan-Nordic nationalism), and has been called out for personal attacks and "long xenophobic rant" (see "Fringe POV about Estonia and the Nordic countries becoming "a single unit" (one country?)") due to this kind of behavior.

How do we deal with this disruptive behavior? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:6793:7500:CCCE:BA0B:AC24:EFF7 (talk) 04:08, 4 July 2018 (UTC) — 2606:6000:6793:7500:CCCE:BA0B:AC24:EFF7 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
 * EE-LV-LT have no formal standing in the Nordic Council. The NC ministers' offices in EE-LV-LT are more like embassies - in the sense that their existence does not signify membership in the organization. Hence the three countries should not be added to the map. Blomsterhagens (talk) 12:08, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Estonian POV pushing
For the last year or so a single Estonian editor has tried to add excessive material pushing Estonian nationalist and fringe theories to articles related to the Nordic countries. He has managed to drown the talk page of virtually every single article related to the Nordic countries in endless, endless discussions about Estonia. The editor's attempts have been reverted and opposed and he has been called out for his disruption by probably a dozen or more editors, yet the editor persists. As seen above he has a long history of making personal attacks as well, and often falsely accuses other editors of being "xenophobic" merely for opposing the addition of fringe Estonian nationalist material to articles where the material doesn't belong (he has been called out by others for such false claims in the past as well). As we see above he also routinely tries to force editors to rehash the same old debates, ignores previous discussion and simply refuses to get the point.

We have already thoroughly debated whether Estonia holds "observer status" at the Nordic Council. The conlusion was that there is no evidence that such a formal observer status exists. Crucially, it isn't mentioned anywhere on the official website of the Nordic Council and Council of Ministers (I looked into this with an open mind, initially believing myself that the claim that Estonia held such status was correct). Instead sources were provided that demonstrated that observer status was in fact explicitly rejected.

Even if an observer status existed, it wouldn't belong in the section on members, in a way that portrayed the alleged "observers" (who aren't even observers) in a way that is visually almost indistinguishable from the actual members. We already have a section on cooperation with the Baltic states and other neighbouring countries and regions. That's where any mention of Estonia belongs. As it happens the article already includes an extensive discussion of the cooperation with Estonia and the other Baltic states. --Gaduse (talk) 05:49, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

To sum up the previous discussion on this issue:
 * The Nordic Council's official website (norden.org), which is detailed/extensive and which can be relied upon, and which lists all official members, doesn't once mention any such status for the Baltic states
 * Such a status isn't mentioned in the formal minutes of the council's sessions
 * A high-quality source from 2002 states explicitly that such a status was rejected (David Smith (2002), Estonia: Independence and European Integration, p. 157, Routledge, Postcommunist States and Nations series, ISBN 9781136452208), with further sources also mentioning that the Baltic states' application to join the council was rejected
 * A high-quality source from 2015 that directly discusses the issue at hand in-depth, viz. the institutionalized relations between the Baltic states and the Nordic Council, doesn't once mention the existence of any such status (T. Etzold, "Nordic institutionalized cooperation in a larger regional setting" (which includes a sub chapter on Nordic–Baltic cooperation), in Johan Strang (ed.), Nordic Cooperation: A European region in transition, Routledge, 2015, pp. 147–164)
 * There is, so far, no other trace of any such status than (sometimes ambiguously worded) oneliners from irrelevant or peripheral works of little weight, that offer no sources/proof/details. At the very least it should be possible to prove when and how such a status was granted if it existed – particularly in light of the fact that we know the year the member states debated the matter and rejected the proposal explicitly.

In light of this the addition of the claim that Estonia holds observer status, without very good new sources that address the above concerns (such as the when and how issue), and that aren't oneliners from works about unrelated topics that merely mention the issue in passing, should be treated as a hoax. Of course I'm entirely open to the possibility that such sources may come to light (although they didn't during a lengthy previous discussion) or that the Baltic states may be granted observer status in the future. In that case it would be ok to amend the article, but any observers shouldn't be added to the members section in a way that made them very hard to distinguish from the member states, but rather in the existing separate section on cooperation with the Baltic states and others. --Gaduse (talk) 06:18, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Gaduse, you have been in conflict with at least four different editors on these topics. This is not about a "single Estonian editor". Edit: The mention of an observer status does exist on the Norden site as well. Edit2: To the user with the address of " 2606:6000:6793:7500:CCCE:BA0B:AC24:EFF7" - please create a real Wiki account. You don't want to be accused of soapboxing later. Blomsterhagens (talk) 06:55, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * That's not the website of the Nordic Council, but of a local office of the council of ministers in Estonia. It does also not demonstrate that they hold any formal observer status in the sense that warrants their addition to the members section (instead of the section about cooperation with neighbouring countries) and discussed here, merely that they participated as guests in an informal manner. It doesn't answer the question about "when and how" they were formally given an "observer status" that is similar to a membership. The Nordic Council has hosted guests from many other countries in the past, even from countries such as Canada and the US. Please provide a better source. And no, you are the editor who have "been in conflict" with at least a dozen editors over your attempt to make this article and others unduly focused on Estonia and your various theories. --Gaduse (talk) 07:09, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * "The Nordic Council has ministers' offices in Estonia, Latvia & Lithuania" ; There's also the Nordic-Baltic Eight framework. Both of these signify a more close cooperation between the region than between the nordics and Russia for example. I'll ask around about a formal observer status though to end these topics. If there's no formal member status then of course EE-LV-LT should not be added to the members section. I've never added them there either. I'm against your personal / insulting attacks mostly. For example I've never added EE-LV-LT as members on this page. This has been done by several other editors. What makes you claim they are estonian? Why not latvian or lithuanian or norwegian? And why is it important what country someone is from at all? Group identity has been discarded as a metric of personal value since at least the early 20th century. How is this still relevant to anything? Blomsterhagens (talk) 10:14, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

 * Edit: I called the council’s office and according to the phone call, EE-LV-LT are not formal members of the nordic council. They are also not formal observers. They have no formal standing in the council. This concludes the topic on formal membership / formal observers for me. Countries that are not official members of the council should not be included in the members table or in the infobox. I have removed the NC local-lang lines for EE-LV-LT and Germany from the infobox as well. EE-LV-LT have, however, been informal observers on sessions each year. This is probably also the source of the confusion. I see nothing wrong with saying somewhere that EE-LV-LT have observed the sessions as informal observers. Blomsterhagens (talk) 11:04, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your constructive initiative. This is really what I have been saying all along, after I initially looked into the matter (at first believing them to hold official observer status myself). It's perfectly fine to include material about them being present as informal observers, and of course having a close cooperation with the Nordic Council. It's also correct that the Nordic Council since the 1990s has prioritized cooperation with these three states, and that the cooperation with e.g. Russia has a somewhat different format. --Gaduse (talk) 11:35, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

I should clarify something. I am not Estonian, and I do not care about Estonian nationalism. I am merely someone that read a few articles and seeing you making agenda-driven edits. I am not that other person (or persons) that you seem to be accusing of Estonian nationalism (which, I told you to cut it out). I am a recent reader of this article that noticed your behavior of endlessly hunting down this single issue and making personal attacks on others. It's not a "single Estonian editor" against consensus; it's you, a single editor making charged statements and needs to cool down in numerous talk page discussions.

Relevant example: Observer status of the Baltic states — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:6793:7500:E890:8C8F:3716:A37 (talk) 00:04, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
 * You are "merely someone" who has made no other edits, and who has come here merely to disruptively edit war and add a proven WP:HOAX to this article (that you knew to be a hoax, since you've apparently read the first discussion of it), and make ridiculous personal attacks in addition to your agenda-driven edits. Normally I don't engage with such editors, and you should consider yourself very lucky that you've not been blocked for your edits. Adding false information to Wikipedia articles is a serious matter. --Gaduse (talk) 03:36, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

 * Noting the other content in this talk pag as well, I trust your information on the phone call, /* Blomsterhagens */ and will nonetheless follow how things evolve in decades to come. The sovereign state of Estonia isn't Nordic nor Scandinavian for that matter. To be one, is to be integrated into a Nordic state most likely. I doubt Baltic articles have nice-to-know mentions about Nordic involvement neither. ✌ ToniTurunen (talk) 11:45, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Minority / regional languages on the infobox
The infobox currently has the Nordic Council names written in the majority national languages + Faroese. We should also add Greenlandic and Northern Sami. I don't know what the NC is called in those languages though. Blomsterhagens (talk) 11:23, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Suggestion: Restructuring Article, separating Nordic Council of Ministers and Introducing Nordic Cooperation.
Hello.

This article is currently an amalgamation of the Nordic Council and the Nordic Council of Ministers. Wouldn't it be better to separate the information this article has on the Nordic Council of Ministers into its own article? The article on the Nordic Council of Ministers and this article can be summarized in a new article called Nordic Cooperation. This is the term that many involved with either the Nordic Council and Nordic Council of Ministers will use, however I realize that the term Nordic Council is popular in describing the leading institution of Nordic Cooperation.

I suggest that the information about the Nordic Council of Ministers be written in its own article, and also have an article about Nordic Cooperation which summarizes the articles on the Nordic Council and the Nordic Council of Ministers.

As a result: A new article will need to be created: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Nordic_Cooperation

Article page used for redirected would need to be completely overhauled: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nordic_Council_of_Ministers&action=edit

And this article will need some, perhaps large, editing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Council

Johnwillem (talk) 11:38, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Scotland
Given the impact of Brexit and a potential second Scottish independence referendum, should the relationship between the Scottish Government and the Nordic Council be mentioned in the article? A delegation from the Council has visited the Scottish parliament this year, and both sides are discussing the potential of future membership. Culloty82 (talk) 15:17, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

spelling
is "then-nonsovereign" a valid phrase? — jonas (talk) 16:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nordic Council


text:
Semesa Sikivou

Semesa Koroikilai Sikivou, CBE (1917 – 1990) was a Fijian academic, politician, and diplomat.

Education and career
Sikivou graduated from New Zealand's University of Auckland, and went on to become the first Fijian to acquire a post graduate degree from the London School of Economics.

He taught at Suva Methodist Primary School in the 1930s and among his students was the future ombudsman of Fiji, Sir Moti Tikaram.

Lelean Memorial School
Towards the end of 1942, at the height of the Pacific Campaign of the Second World War, the Colonial Authority was issued a command to close all urban schools and surrender their compounds to the military, to be used as military camps for the war campaign against the Japanese threat. At that time, a notable missionary teacher by the name of Mr. William Earnest Donnelly, was serving as principal of Toorak Boys’ School. Whilst other overseas teachers immediately left Fiji to await the end of the war, the determined missionary principal, Mr. Donnelly sent a circular to all members of the senior classes of Classes Six, Seven, and Eight of Toorak Boys School, inviting volunteers to come away with him, to continue their education. After consultation with the heads of the Methodist Church, he was given permission to use the principal’s residence at the Davuilevu Technical School. As a result, he and 50 volunteers from Toorak Boys School in Suva, met at the principal’s residence on 3 March 1943. Their first classrooms were the two master bedrooms in the house and the long verandah on the eastern side as their library. There were only two classes and two teachers; the late Mssrs. W.E. Donnelly and Semesa Sikivou.

In the 1943 Methodist Church Annual Conference, Mr. Donnelly was given permission to expand his classes along the same ridge and as a result, the boys themselves, with his and Semesa Sikivou's guidance, built three large bures, where the teachers staff quarters presently stand. He was also directed to name the new school, Lelean Memorial School, in memory of a long serving and beloved missionary in Fiji, the Reverend Charles Oswald Lelean. Rev Lelean was an Australian missionary who served in Fiji for 36 years.

Amongst his students were Rusiate Nayacakalou, who later became the first South Pacific Islander to graduate with a PhD and Jimione Samisoni who became the first Fijian to become the dean of the Fiji School of Medicine.

Political career
Sikivou served as a member of the Legislative Council in the 1960s, and in January 1963 he was one of eight to sign the Wakaya Letter, which affirmed the principles of Fijian paramountcy. When Fiji gained its independence from the United Kingdom in 1970, he was appointed Fiji's first Ambassador to the United Nations, serving until 1976. He reentered politics in the 1980s, and served as Minister for Foreign Affairs.

In the 1972 New Year Honours List he was appointed a CBE.

Sikivou was offered a knighthood by Queen Elizabeth II, but declined it, saying that it was his honour to serve her without remuneration.

Personal life
Sikivou, who hailed from Rewa Province, belonged to the tribe of the Roko Tui Dreketi's Guardians of the Spirit and the Wise Counsel, and as such was a member of the traditional court of the Paramount Chief of the Burebasaga Confederacy. He had strong ties to the Provinces of Namosi, Naitasiri, and Verata.

He was married twice, first to Seini Ratuvou of the Vutia District of Rewa, with whom he had one daughter, Ateca (who died of asthma at the age of one) and three sons: Navitalai, Rokocanini, and Metuisela Sikivou. His second marriage was to Salote Tabuanitoga of Kadavu Island. With her he had two sons: Jese and Mosese, and a daughter, Vasiti Sikivou-Waqa.

title: Semesa Sikivou


text:
User talk:LukeAcidwalker

Welcome!

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title: User talk:LukeAcidwalker


text:
Craig Anton

Craig Ward Anton (born August 28, 1962) is an American actor and comedian. He is best known for his roles as Mr. Pettus in Lizzie McGuire and Lloyd Diffy in Phil of the Future.

Early life
Anton was born and raised in Omaha, Nebraska, the eldest son of Antoinette (Akromis) and Arthur Ward Anton. He has a younger brother, Brian, and two sisters, Toni and Megan. Anton graduated from Omaha Burke High School in 1980, and the University of Nebraska at Lincoln in 1996.

Career
Anton started acting as a kid in Omaha, Nebraska and made his career as a stand-up comedian at age 17, performing in comedy clubs in 1978 while in high school. He attended the University of Nebraska and graduated in 1983 with a B.A. in Theater and English. Anton began his career as a college circuit comedian in the 1980s. In 1984, he traveled the Mediterranean and Middle East as part of an all-comedy USO tour, spending two months in Turkey, Greece, Bahrain, Italy, Israel and Spain entertaining troops. In 1985, he was named Showtime's Funniest Person in Nebraska. In the late 1980s, Anton moved to New York City and pursued some acting opportunities, then moved to Los Angeles. He currently teaches at SCAD in Savannah, Georgia.

2 Headed Dog
He is a member of comedy group 2 Headed Dog with comedians Jim Turner, Mark Fite, and Dave (Gruber) Allen.

First Time Out and MADtv
In the fall of 1995, Anton booked two TV pilots in Los Angeles. He was cast as Nathan in The WB sitcom First Time Out which premiered in September and was later cast on the FOX sketch comedy series MADtv in October. Anton's other show First Time Out was quickly cancelled two months after the premiere of MADtv. His most enduring character was Clorox from the "Star Trek: Deep Stain Nine" sketches. Clorox was supposed to be the main nemesis of the sketch and he was loosely based on Q from Star Trek. He impersonated Dennis Miller and Nate Richert before leaving the show in 1998 at the end of the third season.

Other television projects
Since leaving MADtv, Anton developed an extensive resume on television. He has made appearances on such television series as Mr. Show with Bob and David, Coach, Boston Legal, Entourage, Curb Your Enthusiasm, The King of Queens, Ally McBeal, Lizzie McGuire, Phil of the Future, Everybody Loves Raymond, Weekends at the D.L., 2 Broke Girls, and Mad Men. After leaving MADtv Craig was cast as Mr. Pettus in Lizzie McGuire. After Season 1 ended Craig Anton left the show. He was eventually cast as Lloyd Diffy in Phil of the Future.

Film projects
Anton has appeared in such films as Mail Bonding (1995), Deliver Us From Eva (2003), The Goldfish (2003), Run Ronnie Run (2002), D-WAR (2005), and Careless (2007). He also took part in the feature film is The Mother of Invention (2010).

Voice acting projects
In 2004, Anton starred in the animated series Tom Goes to the Mayor. He provided the voice (and body) of one of the three city council members.

Tomorrow Show
Along with comedians Ron Lynch and Brendon Small, Craig hosted the Tomorrow Show, a weekly live comedy show at the Steve Allen Theater in Los Angeles, California. Though Anton and Small are no longer actively involved with the show the two occasionally make surprise appearances including a yearly anniversary performance.

Personal life
Anton married Lesley Gray in September 1994. They have twin daughters, Delphine and Ruby. They currently live in Savannah, Georgia.

title: Craig Anton


text:
David Daniel Davis

David Daniel Davis M.D. F.R.C.P. (15 June 1777 – 4 December 1841) was a British physician.

Born David Davies in Llandyfaelog in Wales, he received his M.D. from the University of Glasgow in 1801. He set up his practice as a physician in Sheffield, living in Paradise Square from 1803 to 1812. In 1806 he translated Philippe Pinel's influential book Traité médico-philosophique sur l'aleniation mentale; ou la manie with the English title Treatise on Insanity. He then settled in London, and in 1813 was elected to the office of physician accoucher at the Queen Charlotte Lying-in Hospital. In this role, he was in attendance to the Duchess of Kent when she gave birth to the future Queen Victoria in 1819. In 1827, he was elected as the first professor in Midwifery at the University of London. In his study of obstetrics, Davis sought to improve the design of instruments used to assist childbirth and published widely on the subject, including his 1825 Elements of operative Midwifery and 1836 The principles and practice of obstetric medicine in a series of systematic dissertations on the diseases of women and children.

title: David Daniel Davis


text:
Tim Walz

Timothy James Walz (born April 6, 1964) is an American politician, former U.S. Army non-commissioned officer, and retired educator who has served as the 41st governor of Minnesota since 2019. A member of the Democratic–Farmer–Labor Party (DFL), he was a member of the U.S. House of Representatives representing MN's 1st congressional district from 2007 to 2019.

Born in West Point, Nebraska, Walz was a member of the Army National Guard, and worked in agriculture, manufacturing, and teaching after high school. He later graduated from Chadron State College and Minnesota State University, Mankato. He moved to Minnesota in 1996. Before running for Congress in 2006, he served for 24 years in the Army National Guard and as a social studies teacher in the Mankato school district. He was elected to the United States House of Representatives for MN's 1st congressional district in 2006, defeating six-term Republican incumbent Gil Gutknecht. He was reelected five times, retiring in 2019 after being elected governor. Walz represented a large, mostly rural section of southern Minnesota situated along the border with Iowa.

On November 6, 2018, Walz was elected governor, defeating the Republican nominee, Hennepin County Commissioner Jeff Johnson. Walz was reelected in the 2022 Minnesota gubernatorial election, defeating Republican nominee Scott Jensen.

Early life, education, and early career
Walz was born in West Point, Nebraska, the son of Darlene R. and James F. "Jim" Walz. The son of a public school administrator and community activist, Walz was raised in Chadron, Nebraska, a rural community in the northwestern portion of the state.

Walz graduated from Butte High School in a class of 25 students. In 1989, he earned a bachelor of science degree in social science education from Chadron State College. His first teaching experience was at the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota. He then accepted a teaching position with WorldTeach in the People's Republic of China. In 2001, he earned a Master of Science in educational leadership from Minnesota State University, Mankato.

Walz enlisted in the Army National Guard in 1981 and served for 24 years. Over his military career, he had postings in Arkansas, Texas, the Arctic Circle, New Ulm, Minnesota, and elsewhere. He worked in heavy artillery. During his career, he worked in disaster response postings following floods and tornados and was deployed overseas on active duty for months, although he never saw combat. In 1989, he earned the title of Nebraska Citizen-Soldier of the Year. Walz attained the rank of command sergeant major near the end of his career, but retired as a master sergeant in 2005 for benefit purposes because he did not complete coursework at the U.S. Army Sergeants Major Academy. He resumed teaching as a geography teacher and football coach at Mankato West High School.

Walz and his wife, Gwen, ran Educational Travel Adventures, accompanying high school juniors and seniors on summer educational trips to China.

Elections
Walz decided to run for Congress in 2006. He had no opponent for the DFL nomination in the September 12, 2006 primary election. He beat incumbent Republican Gil Gutknecht in the general election on November 7, and took office on January 3, 2007. After the election, Gutknecht was described as having been caught "off guard" and Walz as having "resolved never to get caught like that himself.... He packaged himself as a moderate from Day One, built an office centered on constituent service and carved out a niche as a tireless advocate for veterans."

Walz was reelected in 2008 with 62% of the vote, becoming only the second non-Republican to win a second full term in the district. He won a third term in 2010, defeating State Representative Randy Demmer with 50% of the vote. He was reelected in 2012, 2014, and 2016.

Tenure
Upon his swearing in, Walz became the highest-ranking retired enlisted soldier ever to serve in Congress, as well as only the fourth Democrat/DFLer to represent his district. The others were Thomas Wilson (1887–1889), William Harries (1891–1893), and Tim Penny (1983–1995).

Walz served on the House Agriculture Committee, Committee on Veterans' Affairs, and the Armed Services Committee. Along with fellow Minnesota Democrat Keith Ellison, Walz opposed President Bush's plan to increase troop levels in Iraq. In his first week as a legislator, Walz cosponsored a bill to raise the minimum wage, voted for stem cell research, voted to allow Medicare to negotiate pharmaceutical prices, and voiced support for pay-as-you-go budget rules, requiring that new spending or tax changes not add to the federal deficit.

Even as he represented a district that had usually voted Republican, pundits described Walz's stated policy positions as ranging from moderate to liberal. He voted against the act to Prohibit Federally Funded Abortion Services, and to advance the Affordable Care Act out of the House. He also voted to continue funding for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and against the 2008 TARP bill, which purchased troubled assets from financial institutions.

Walz received a 100% rating from Planned Parenthood in 2012, from the ACLU in 2011, from the American Immigration Lawyers Association in 2009–2010, from the AFL–CIO in 2010, from the Teamsters in 2009–2010, and from NOW in 2007. He also received single-digit ratings from the National Taxpayers' Union, Citizens against Government Waste, Americans for Tax Reform, and Freedom Works. The United States Chamber of Commerce gave him a 25% rating in 2010. Walz was ranked the 7th most bipartisan member of the House during the 114th Congress (and the most bipartisan member from Minnesota) in the Bipartisan Index created by The Lugar Center and the McCourt School of Public Policy that ranks members of Congress by measuring how often their bills attract co-sponsors from the opposite party and how often they co-sponsor bills by members of the opposite party.

Committee assignments

 * Committee on Agriculture
 * Subcommittee on Conservation, Energy, and Forestry
 * Subcommittee on General Farm Commodities and Risk Management
 * Committee on Veterans' Affairs (ranking member)
 * Subcommittee on Disability Assistance and Memorial Affairs
 * Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity

Caucus memberships

 * Chair, Congressional EMS Caucus
 * Co-Chair, National Guard and Reserve Component Caucus
 * Co-Chair, Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus
 * Co-Chair, Congressional Veterans Jobs Caucus
 * Member, LGBT Equality Caucus
 * Congressional Arts Caucus

2018
Walz announced he would run for governor after Mark Dayton, the incumbent Democratic governor, chose not to seek a third term. On November 6, 2018, Walz was elected governor, defeating the Republican nominee, Hennepin County Commissioner Jeff Johnson.

During the campaign, two senior NCOs of the Minnesota National Guard falsely accused Walz of fabricating facts about his service and lying about his military rank. The allegation about his military rank was debunked.

2022
Walz sought reelection in 2022. He won the August 9 Democratic primary and faced Republican nominee Scott Jensen in the November general election. On November 8, 2022, Walz defeated Jensen, 52.3% to 44.6%. Though Jensen fared better than Walz's opponent had in 2018 and made gains against Walz in Greater Minnesota, he did not overcome Walz's lead in the Minneapolis–Saint Paul metropolitan area.

Tenure

Walz was sworn in as governor of Minnesota on January 7, 2019, at the Fitzgerald Theater in Saint Paul. Walz took the oath of office alongside incoming Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan, Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon, Minnesota State Auditor Julie Blaha, and Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison, all Democrats. Walz spoke about education and healthcare reform in his inauguration speech.

Police reform and protest response
On May 26, 2020, the day after the murder of George Floyd, Walz and lieutenant governor Peggy Flanagan demanded justice and called the video of Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin kneeling on George Floyd's neck "disturbing". Walz elaborated, "The lack of humanity in this disturbing video is sickening. We will get answers and seek justice".

Walz's initial response to the widespread protests following Floyd's murder was criticized by political opponents and other groups. He later responded to the murder by ordering the Minnesota legislature to reconvene for special sessions on legislation for police reform and accountability. After police reform failed to pass the first special session in June, a second special session was held in July. On July 21, the legislature passed major police reform legislation. The new compromise law includes a limited ban on police from using chokeholds so long as the officers are not at greater risk. It bans the old warrior training program, which was regarded as dehumanizing people and encouraging aggressive conduct. It requires training peace officers to deal with people with autism or in a mental health crisis and deescalation training for situations that could turn volatile. It also creates a special independent unit at the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension for investigations of fatal police encounters and a community relations advisory council to consult with the Police Officers Standards and Training Board on policy changes. Walz signed the legislation into law on July 23.

NPVIC
On May 24, 2023, Walz signed an omnibus appropriations bill into law that included a section that adjoined Minnesota to the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.

2023 legislative session
Walz oversaw the 93rd Minnesota Legislature, which was in session from January to May 2023. The first legislature to be fully DFL-controlled since the 88th Minnesota Legislature in 2013-15, it passed several major reforms to Minnesota law, including requiring paid leave, banning noncompete agreements, cannabis legalization, increased spending on infrastructure and environmental issues, tax modifications, codifying abortion rights, universal free school meals, and universal gun background checks. The Star Tribune called the session "one of the most consequential" ever in Minnesota; Walz called it the "most productive session in Minnesota history". While Walz signed almost all legislation passed by the legislature, he vetoed a bill intended to increase pay for rideshare drivers, his first veto as governor, saying that it did not strike the right balance.

Cannabis
Walz has advocated for the legalization of recreational cannabis as governor of Minnesota. As a candidate for governor in 2017, he said: "We have an opportunity in Minnesota to replace the current failed policy with one that creates tax revenue, grows jobs, builds opportunities for Minnesotans, protects Minnesota kids, and trusts adults to make personal decisions based on their personal freedoms." In 2022, he proposed the creation of a Cannabis Management Office to develop and implement the "regulatory framework for adult-use cannabis" in Minnesota. On May 30, 2023, he signed into law House File 100 to legalize recreational cannabis in Minnesota.

Economic issues
During the economic crisis in 2008, Walz repeatedly spoke out against using taxpayer money to bail out financial institutions; in late September he voted against the $700 billion TARP bill, which purchased troubled assets from these institutions. Walz released a statement after the bill's passage, saying, "The bill we voted on today passes the buck when it comes to recouping the losses taxpayers might suffer. I also regret that this bill does not do enough to help average homeowners, or provide sufficient oversight of Wall Street." For the same reasons, in December 2008 he voted against the bill that offered $14 billion in government loans to bail out the country's large automobile manufacturers. In June 2009 Walz introduced a bipartisan resolution calling on the federal government to "relinquish its temporary ownership interests in the General Motors Corporation and Chrysler Group, LLC, as soon as possible" and stated that the government must not be involved in those companies' management decisions.

Despite his votes against bailout bills that loaned taxpayer money to large banks and auto manufacturers, Walz did vote with his Democratic colleagues to support the 2009 American Recovery & Reinvestment Act. As a member of the House Transportation Committee, Walz saw the stimulus bill as an opportunity to work "with his congressional colleagues to make job creation through investment in public infrastructure like roads, bridges and clean energy the cornerstone of the economic recovery plan". Walz has focused heavily on job and economic issues important to his southern Minnesota district, which has a mix of larger employers like the Mayo Clinic along with small businesses and agricultural interests. In July 2009 he voted for the Enhancing Small Business Research and Innovation Act, which he described as "part of our long-term economic blueprint to spur job creation by encouraging America's entrepreneurs to innovate toward breakthrough technological advancements". Walz also urged assistance for hog and dairy farmers who struggled with lower prices for their commodities in 2008 and 2009.

Education
Walz was a public school teacher for 20 years. He opposes using merit pay for teachers. Voting in favor of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, Walz pointed to its strong provisions in support of public school buildings. Walz is on record supporting legislation to lower tuition costs. In a February 12, 2009 speech, he said that the most important thing to do "to ensure a solid base for [America's] economic future … is to provide the best education possible for [American] children." He has received strong backing for these policies from many interest groups, including the National Education Association, the American Association of University Women and the National Association of Elementary School Principals.

Guns
While in Congress, Walz was a strong supporter of gun rights and was endorsed by the NRA Political Victory Fund (NRA-PVF) multiple times, receiving an A grade from the organization. Following the Parkland high school shooting in 2018, he denounced the NRA in a Star Tribune opinion piece, and announced that he would donate the equivalent of all of the campaign contributions the NRA-PVF had given him—$18,000—to the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. As governor, Walz expressed support for gun regulation. In 2023, he signed into law a public safety bill that establishes universal background checks and red-flag laws in Minnesota.

LGBT rights
Walz supports LGBT rights, including federal anti-discrimination laws on the basis of sexual orientation. In a 2009 speech he called for an end to the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. Walz voted in favor of the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Act and the Sexual Orientation Employment Nondiscrimination Act. In 2007, he received a 90% grade from the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest LGBT organization. In 2011, Walz announced his support for the Respect for Marriage Act.

Veterans' issues
Having served 24 years in the Army National Guard, as a freshman in Congress he was given a rare third committee membership when he was assigned to the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs. Walz has championed enhanced veterans benefits since taking office in 2007. In May of that year the House unanimously passed his "Traumatic Brain Injuries Center Act" to set up five centers around the nation to study traumatic brain injuries and develop improved models for caring for veterans suffering from such injuries.

Walz also supported the GI Bill of 2008, which expanded education benefits for veterans and in some cases allowed them to transfer education benefits to family members. In 2009, Walz gave the keynote address at the American Legion National Convention in Louisville. He spoke about the need for the VA and Department of Defense to work together to make sure that returning service men and women "do not fall through the cracks when they transition to civilian life".

Walz was the lead House sponsor of the Clay Hunt Suicide Prevention for American Veterans Act, which directs the Veterans Administration to report on veteran mental health care and suicide prevention programs. It also gives the VA permission to provide incentives to psychiatrists who agree to join the VA medical system.

Women's issues
Walz supports abortion rights and has a 100% rating from Planned Parenthood. The National Right to Life Committee gave him a rating of zero. In early 2009, Walz voted for the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

Personal life
Walz and his wife Gwen married in 1994. They lived in Mankato, Minnesota, for nearly 20 years before moving to Saint Paul with their two children upon his election as governor.

Walz's brother Craig was killed by a falling tree during a storm in 2016. He was survived by his wife Julie, and their son Jacob, who suffered severe injuries but survived.

Walz is Lutheran.

title: Tim Walz


text:
Talk:Miniature horse

Annoying Redirect
I read this page, and then I followed a link over to read the article about ponies. That article mentioned miniature horses and miniature ponies, so I clicked the link for miniature ponies, and I ended up right back here. This page does not talk about miniature ponies as anything distinct from miniature horses, so I'm annoyed, but I don't know what ought to be done about it. Are miniature ponies something different than miniature horses? -ErinHowarth (talk) 22:57, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, with minis are really just little tiny equines, but what is called "miniature horse" has more horse-like features, and a "miniature pony" would be more pony-like in proportion. You can compare pictures of American Miniature Horse and Mini Shetlans Pony for example to see the difference. Pitke (talk) 07:33, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

 * The Miniature horse people basically go ballistic if you dare to call their little dears "ponies." (I've judged minis. I've read the breed standard, I've seen the wide range of body types that's actually out there. They ALL have pony breeding and often a pony phenotype even though the breeders and breed standard vehemently deny this.  Some of them have so much dwarfism that they actually look like sausages with legs, but that's another problem...)  Europeans acknowledge the existence of a "mini" Shetland, but trust me, it's better to just have them all in one place.   Montanabw (talk) 21:14, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Montanabw is right. White Arabian mare (talk) 19:32, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Assistance Animals
The information regarding mini horses as assistance animals in the US seems to be misleading. Taken from the Code of Federal Regulations:

 * "28 C.F.R. § 35.136 Service Animals

 * (i) Miniature horses.

 * (1) Reasonable modifications. A public entity shall make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures to permit the use of a miniature horse by an individual with a disability if the miniature horse has been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of the individual with a disability.

 * (2) Assessment factors. In determining whether reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures can be made to allow a miniature horse into a specific facility, a public entity shall consider--

 * (i) The type, size, and weight of the miniature horse and whether the facility can accommodate these features;

 * (ii) Whether the handler has sufficient control of the miniature horse;

 * (iii) Whether the miniature horse is housebroken; and

 * (iv) Whether the miniature horse's presence in a specific facility compromises legitimate safety requirements that are necessary for safe operation.

 * (3) Other requirements. Paragraphs 35.136(c) through (h) of this section, which apply to service animals, shall also apply to miniature horses."

I'd make the changes myself, but don't have the time to read up on the proper way to do it, and how to cite, etc. So, if anyone cares enough to edit it for accuracy, knock yourself out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.174.33.119 (talk) 19:24, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

 * How about you grab the text that's troublesome, copy it here and rewrite it here? Then we others can do the cleanup and pop it back in when it's done up nicely.  Montanabw (talk) 04:30, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

--- Assistance animal rewrite mini-sandbox

(Put text between lines, all can tweak)

--

Fight or flight
Is it correct to say that horses "are prey animals, with a fight-or-flight instinct". I suggest instead saying "horses have a flight instinct". They do not have a fight instinct.Royalcourtier (talk) 04:45, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, they do. Horses would prefer to use the flight instinct (run away from danger). However, if they can't (they're cornered, whatever), they'll fight. This is described in more depth in the horse behavior article, I believe. Dana boomer (talk) 12:06, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Horses can and will fight if they feel threatened. A mare will protect her foal, and a stallion will protect his band of mares. White Arabian mare (talk) 19:31, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Metric units
Metric units were given priority here by, who was reverted by , who also reverted me when I restored Yowanvista's edit, with an edit summary that cites WP:SYNTH. I don't see that edit-warring is likely to resolve anything, so here's the discussion: WP:SYNTH is specific on the subject of units: "Routine calculations do not count as original research". WP:UNIT is less specific: "the main unit is generally an SI unit or a non-SI unit officially accepted for use with the SI"; there are exceptions for articles closely connected with the USA and the UK, which obviously this one is not. There is also a different guideline for science-related articles, which this one arguably is: ""In science-related articles: generally use only SI units, non-SI units officially accepted for use with the SI, and such other units as are conventional in reliable-source discussions of the article topic. Supplying parenthetical US Customary or imperial equivalents (see below) is not required unless there is some special reason to do so.""

I think the question is not whether customary units should come first or not, but whether they should be here at all. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:01, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * JLAN, do we have to go through all of this again? You have been told, over and over again, by a number of editors, in a number of different venues, that for horse articles it is standard to have hands, centimeters and inches all given. If you really want to re-litigate this, take it to a central venue, rather than picking at it on individual pages. I'd prefer you didn't, because it's a discussion we've all had before and it's just a giant headache, but it's your decision. Dana boomer (talk) 12:41, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Ditto to Dana. But I appreciate JLAN taking this to discussion and that there is a respectful tone so far. In the quote above, with hands there is "some special reason to do so." Hands is conventional, found in reliable-source discussions, and more to the point, we have gone through some extensive work on the convert templates just so that someone who chooses to put centimeters first for articles where they are the lead editor can now do so AND also have a hands and inches conversion. This horse has been beaten to death.  Montanabw (talk) 17:10, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * There appears to be a fundamental misunderstanding here on the part of : that the choice of units, and priority of units, in an article is determined by the "lead editor" (whatever that may be supposed to be) according to his or her personal whim, perhaps in the same way that reference format, date format or WP:ENGVAR are established by the first substantial contributor. That simply is not so. The use of units is covered by WP:UNIT, a part of the Manual of Style, which specifically provides for metric units to be the primary unit in almost all articles (those with strong regional connections to the US or the UK being an exception). There'd need to be convincing reasons for ignoring that in this case, which obviously has no particular connection to either of those countries; 's edit is indubitably correct. Please don't tell me I need to start an RfC for something as obvious as this?
 * A more interesting question is whether horse-breeding articles are considered "science-related", in which case metric units would be the only units used. I think they are. As a single example, I read here that "Shire horse has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria". One might think that could be because it is covered by WikiProject Agriculture, but – unaccountably – it has not been added to that project.
 * Yes,, I have heard that said a good number of times; and always by one or other of the same two editors. What I've never yet heard is any support for it from other editors in general or from the MOS in particular. Perhaps you would, this time, be kind enough to point me to where in WP:UNIT it says that one customary unit in use in both the US and the UK should be converted into another such customary unit (obviously this is not the same case as, say, stones for bodyweight)? And if you cannot, then perhaps you should recognise that this is your personal preference, and cease trying to impose it on others? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:25, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Then you should probably re-read the RFC you started at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Equine/Archive_5. Some comments from that RFC:
 * "Hands should be the first unit used in a horse measurement...but conversions should also be made into centimetres and inches." - Cgoodwin
 * "Hands should be the default, with other units added with the template." - Intothatdarkness
 * "Hands are used here in Oz, and should be the first unit used in a horse measurement - I do think it needs conversion to other units" - Casliber
 * "using hands (converted to other units ALWAYS) should be the presumption and exceptions would need consensus" - Ealdgyth
 * "[hands] should be the standard, first, measurement, with the hands template giving the other measurements." - ThatPeskyCommoner
 * Would you like me to keep going? That's five editors besides Montanabw and myself, from an official RFC. Granted, consensus can change, so if you would like to start a new RFC on the same topic, no one is going to stop you. Dana boomer (talk) 00:31, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd really like to drop this stick. JLAN, in "your" articles, several technologically-inclined editors went to great difficulty to create an effective three-way conversion so that you can put measurements in SI units first, with the conversion to follow. We have bent over backwards to work with you and reach a compromise on this issue. As for the "SI-first" argument, that was settled by RfC almost two years ago. WP:UNIT clearly states: "In science-related articles: generally use only SI units, non-SI units officially accepted for use with the SI, and such other units as are conventional in reliable-source discussions of the article topic." We've been there, done that. You might note that non-SI measurements are used in many other places; the carat (mass) and the karat, the knot, the troy ounce, and if I am not mistaken, I think jockeys in the UK are weighed in stone. Montanabw (talk) 17:09, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh, and JLAN, you know damn well there isn't a lot of support for this outside WPEQ, either, per this  Montanabw (talk) 17:11, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

DNA test for dwarfism gene

 * http://www.thehorse.com/articles/33767/testing-available-for-dwarfism-gene-in-miniature-horses

We need to make this article one for a GA push. What say you? Montanabw (talk) 19:44, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Sounds like fun. I've spent a bit of time on it now (and integrated the above article), but it still needs a lot more work. I'll probably swing back through tonight and do some more work. References need checking for RS, external links need a trim, and the first and third subsections of the Controversies section need more refs... Dana boomer (talk) 16:13, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I've taken another run through, and now everything through the Uses section is fully referenced to reliable sources. It probably needs expanding and tweaking, but it's a solid base. Would you want to take a first run through the controversies sections? I've tossed a bunch of cn and rs tags in - basically, every ref I haven't formatted needs to be replaced, plus there's another ref that I didn't tag, but added a hidden comment to. If you want to take a run through these, we should be able to then step back and take a look and see where we need to add/subtract/move around stuff... Dana boomer (talk) 21:46, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * WIll do, it's going to be a little slow because I am out of town and am not online with time to sit and think much... but I will do this!  Montanabw (talk) 20:27, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Arabian type Minis
There should be a note in the conformation section about how many Minis, especially those bred within the last ten years or so, have Arabian conformation, with dished faces, flat croups and crested necks. I had added a sentence or two about that, but somebody removed them. White Arabian mare (talk) 18:37, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I probably did so; we don't want to confuse these with real Arabians (they've been showing them with Arab tack for at least 20 years that I know of). Also, and more important, if we are going to add material like that, we need to go out and find sources to verify the information.  (See WP:RS)  If you can find articles on breeding to a more Arabian look, feelfree to post them here and we can see if we can work that into the article.   Montanabw (talk)  04:26, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I will see if I can find any. I've seen ads for Minis that you'd swear were Arabians if there wasn't a human in the picture as a size reference, and the stallion in the pic at the top of that section has Arabian conformation. White Arabian mare (talk) 02:05, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

 * When I've judged them (not often) I see a lot of broad foreheads and dishes, but that could be other pony influence... I'm not in a hurry to compare minis to Arabians due to the problems minis have with dwarfism and other problems. There isn't any close-up Arabian breeding in them; they are more like comparing a Shetland Sheepdog to a Rough Collie; a great example of how selective breeding can imitate a phenotype even when the original genes are waaaaaay back.  ;-)    Montanabw (talk)  01:42, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Pony differentiation
The lead should include a brief description differentiating ponies from miniature horses. Often a reader just needs to find out if this is the correct article for the desired information -- or if another article is more appropriate. If possible, please clarify this in the lead (I have read the entire article and am still unsure). Thanks, ~ 107.15.152.93 (talk) 08:04, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061214052642/http://www.horseshoes.com/magazine/shetland/amstpncl.htm to http://www.horseshoes.com/magazine/shetland/amstpncl.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140429051100/http://www.shetlandminiature.com/our-breedsaspc-amhr-aspr-nsppr/amhr.html to http://www.shetlandminiature.com/our-breedsaspc-amhr-aspr-nsppr/amhr.html
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Proposed merge of American Miniature Horse into Miniature horse
Content fork. Doesn't need two articles. Put American MH into Miniature Horse. Separate registries for different countries doesn't make a separate breed for encyclopedic purposes. We don't have separate dog or cat breed articles by country even though there are multiple registries, so why would we do that with horse breeds. See as examples Border Collie and Persian cat. Use similar logic, standards, and formats. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 07:57, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Er, no, oppose – not a content fork, one is a general page about a type of horse found in many parts of the world, the other a page on one of the several distinct breeds within that type (of which the most significant by far is the Falabella). Why is the article on the American breed proposed for merging while those on other miniature breeds are not? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:57, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * To answer your question, I was editing List of North American horse breeds and reading its talk page—not looking at miniature breeds. And most of the content of AMH came from MH in the first place; but you would know that because I see you're the editor who did that. ▶ I am Grorp ◀  09:46, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I would oppose this too. American Miniatures are a sub-group of Miniature horses. Showing classes sometimes specify one or the other in the UK and handlers are very vocal on the subject of how the American Miniature has changed the breed type and not for the better. Indie (talk) 14:50, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Miniature horse