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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gates' Law

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Sasquatch′↔T↔C 03:41, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Gates' Law
Non-encyclopedic neologism TigerShark 21:29, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Are there no neologisms in Wikipedia? Why should this one be excluded? Rex 21:29, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Weak Keep Seems to pass the google test and I'm not sure if it is a neologism Dwstein 21:44, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Definite keep. I have found references from as far back as 2000. Neologisms relate to the author making the word up, not reflecting the actual use of a word in the world. Here is my cite for it:

"Moore's law is countered by Gate's law, which states something like as computer hardware gets faster and better, software will get more bloated and consume more resources, and implemented more poorly. Microsoft has lived up to Gate's law quite well, and I don't think there can be any argument there." http://forums.macnn.com/archive/index.php/t-93015.html This was from 8/7/2000.

It is not a neologism because it is not new, and the author is not coining it, but reporting on something already in use. Cyferx 21:49, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Comment. Neologisms do not neccessarily relate to the author making them up. If somebody invents a neologism and then I write an article on it, it is still an neologism. As to how new they have to be, I am not aware of a specific rule. TigerShark 21:57, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Comment. I would say that there are a lot of neologisms in the world, every day, new words are created. It would seem that we could not use new words until they got old, like Wiki could use 'rap' because it is more than 15 years old, but not 'bling-bling' because it is too new, too neo. The point is, are people using them or is the author just making them up? Wiki is concerned with the latter, not the former. Here is the source: Wikipedia does not accept fan-made neologisms unless they have realistic evidence of existence via search engine hits (e.g. Google). Gate's Law produces significant hits on Google. It therefore passes the Google test for neologisms. Cyferx 22:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes of course you are right. Let's not lose sight of the fact taht I never said that just because it was a "new" it shouldn't be included - I said "unencyclopedic" neologism. It seems to be a bit of IT humour to me rather than the basis of a serious article.

 * If it was considered a serious "law" then it would have lot more Google hits after being in use for over 5 years TigerShark 22:20, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete unless legitimate citations are added to the article; right now, it looks like an unencyclopedic neologism to me. (I don't consider most forum posts "legitimate citations", and I'm not alone in this, I don't think) CDC   (talk)  22:33, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per CDC. A и D я 01D  TALK  EMAIL  23:29, July 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Clearly not a neologism - here's an article from 1997 on the law. I've heard of the law, and a Google search shows that plenty of other people have as well. — Asbestos | Talk  23:48, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, googling "Gates law" halves gave me 539 cites (a sort of semi-decent number) which, looking them over, looked respectable and on point (which is more important than the pure number). Dcarrano 00:13, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand. Some notability. JamesBurns 08:21, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep And cleanup. Noteable. Crosslink with moores law? Ravedave 19:37, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ted Joans

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Gamaliel 18:22, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Ted Joans
Biographical article, subject not notable

This article has existed as a stub for about two years. The subject appears to have no notable achievements other than being the purported innovator who created the outagraph, itself a neologism. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 21:33, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep. Notable Beat poet.  Here's his Village Voice obituary.  Has entries in Gale's Contemporary Authors and Biography Resource Center Online.  Gamaliel 21:38, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep It may have been just a stub, but I found it interesting. KeithD 21:40, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Seems to have some noteriety and a google search brings up several news articles Dwstein 21:54, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I'd suggest people do a minimal research before nominating for deletion. mikka (t) 23:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand as notable poet. Capitalistroadster 00:12, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, a Village Voice obituary subject is notable. Dcarrano 00:14, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. --Daniel C. Boyer 17:41, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text: User talk:68.73.58.56

title: User talk:68.73.58.56


text: Template:Dentistry

title: Template:Dentistry


text:
Talk:Roman Catholic Diocese of London, Ontario

Untitled
This was originally at "Roman Catholic Bishops of London, Ontario" because I knew there was an Anglican bishop as well, but I didn't realize that the Anglican diocese is actually called Huron. There's no need to disambiguate the title, so I've moved this to the simpler "Bishop of London, Ontario". (Well, it still needs to be disambiguated with the Bishop of London, England :)) Adam Bishop 21:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

List of churches in the Roman Catholic Diocese of London, Ontario
As a spinoff from Roman Catholic Diocese of London, Ontario, I have created List of churches in the Roman Catholic Diocese of London, Ontario. The area is rich in historic and architecturally significant churches, and I hope this list will help to inspire further work in this area. In order to flesh out the list, quality photographs are needed as well as local history/architecture sources materials. Any help in this regard is appreciated. Cbl62 (talk) 03:01, 25 April 2020 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Stephan Kinsella

Advertisement
This is a nice little ad for an otherwise thoroughly obscure figure. Am I wrong in surmising that this "encyclopedia" article was written and posted by Mr. Kinsella himself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.166.189.67 (talk) 17:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you are wrong in thinking that. 98.117.195.211 (talk) 16:38, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Obscure, you're joking right? --RAM (talk) 18:49, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

No. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gamehobo (talk • contribs) 05:13, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

deletion
If anyone wants to submit this page for votes for deletion, please be aware of the following.

Several months ago someone put up my bio entry (I cannot remember who, but I did not know him or have anything to do with it). My page was put up for VfD, and Willmcv, among others, voted to delete it, for vanity, and non-notable. It was not vanity, as I did not publish it. Anyway, autobio is not prohibited, just discouraged.

Now, I have since learned several things. First, The Criteria for inclusion of biographies states who is "notable" enough for a wiki biography entry. Given the critieria, it is clear my entry should not have been previously deleted. Note, e.g., it says: "Biographies on the following people may be included in Wikipedia . ...   Published authors, editors, and photographers who have written books with an audience of 5,000 or more or in periodicals with a circulation of 5,000 or more.    "Well. I don't need to list my legal and libertarian publications yet again, but I have easily exceeded these, many times. A glance at these sites will make this clear.

Moreover, there are "Alternate tests" listed that would suffice: Other tests for inclusion that have been proposed include:  The professor test -- If the individual is more well known and more published than an average college professor, they can and should be included. Verifiability -- Can all information in the article be independently verified now? (some say) 10 years from now?Google Test -- Does the subject get lots of hits on Google or another well known search mechanism? Oh, easy. Google turns up hundreds of entries (actually, 19,900, at last count). The info can easily be verified. I'm more well known and more published than the average college provessor, so my entry "can and should be included."

True, the rules on Autobiography autobiographies is that they are discouraged; but they are not banned. A couple of comments about this. First, the info I put up is easily verified. Second, an entry was originally put without my involvement; given that I satisfied then as I satisfy now several criteria for "notability," it should never have been deleted. Had I been aware of these clear rules back then, I would have pointed it out, but the deletion of my entry clearly violated the rules listed above. So I am just putting up a version of what was there before. It's more like an edit of a bio entry by the subject himself, than a brand new autobio entry (the entry is very similar to what was there before, which is now lost down the memory hole; I didn't save it b/c I didn't realize deletion was really permanent).

Finally, the policy ought to discourage anonymously-posted biographies even more than it discourages self-posted (auto)biographies, since someone can post an autobio anonymously, without being honest about it. Tom G. Palmer's entry is not being deleted (yet), even though it was created anonymously, and appears to very likely be an autobio.

Also--note, I and one of my IP publications is mentioned in the Wiki Intellectual Property entry; and in the Wiki Libertarian_theories_of_law entry. Nskinsella 21:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I voted for delete. I would be willing to change that vote if you clean up this article and write it from an objective perspective (as if you're not writting it). Perhaps ask a friend to help/write it for you. Themindset 22:38, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I have cleaned it up, and it is objective now. Please give me your thoughts. Nskinsella 01:30, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Note how many sentences start with 'His' and 'He', generally that is not good form. A biography is not important, simply note in a simple and straightforward way the important things the subject has done. If that is done, I will definitely change my vote. Themindset 02:09, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, you are right, this will improve it. The Palmer entry up for deletion Votes_for_deletion/Tom_G._Palmer also probably has too many "his" and "he". --- I have now edited the entry, to have less sentences start with "he" and "his". I aslo shortened it and cleaned it up somewhat, tried to make it more objective; but someone else in the meantime also added some comments, which increased the length slightly; I edited this as well as it was somewhat sloppy. Nskinsella 03:40, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * After reading over Mr. Kinsella's autobio, it seems to me that the situation could potentially be best served by simply including the content of this entry in the entry on narcissism.

 * As a colleague, I would be very interested in the circulation numbers of the legal periodicals you have written articles for. Sprotch 12:23, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Degree(s)
How does one obtain an LLM from both KCL and LSE? Do you have two LLMs, one from each? -Splash 21:13, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * My LL.M. is from University of London. It is an umbrella university that includes 5 law schools. They combine together for the LL.M. You have to pick one of them as your "home" school and you must take at least half your courses at the home school; the rest may be taken at the other 4 law schools. My home school was King's; I took half my courses at King's, and half at LSE. The wording on the current entry was not mine; it has been edited, and is slightly confusing.
 * I see. I didn't know that was how Uni of London structured things; interesting. -Splash 22:33, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * If your LLM is from the UoL External Programme, that should probably be indicated. --RyanKoppelman 18:27, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It is not from the external programme. I lived in London a year. I did enroll afterwards in the external programme, working on a PhD in Laws, but eventually dropped out, as never found time to finish the thesis. And I believe since then the external programme has been greatly curtailed. NSKinsella (Stephan Kinsella) 05:18, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Irish descent
Were you born in Ireland or in the UK to Irish parents (re your surname)?? What is your opinion re the status of the IRA "peace process"?? My mom's Irish by the way, so I was just curious when I saw your surname.

Rms125a@hotmail.com 19:55, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Hey, Willow, are you gonna try to delete my entry yet again? I myself have doubts to its notability. :) NSKinsella (Stephan Kinsella) 21:53, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * My great-grandfather was born in Ireland. Then he moved to New Orleans.

"marginal, non-notable, and kooky"
POV assertions of this type need to to be attributed to sources. Has anyone said this in print? -Will Beback 01:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Among the few mainstream libertarians who know his name, Kinsella is generally considered marginal, non-notable, and kooky.

 * Haha I will vouch for it! Ikilled007 18:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

London School of Economics, Kings College, etc.
User:CMUAfroAmerStudiesKid requested verification of a source in his last edit summary (RV edit. I've just come from seeing the controversy on this man at the LewRockwell.com article. DMC you say it's easily sourced but where are the sources? Let's see some proof he has those degrees...). I would cite Kinsella's published self biography (found here: ) and his curriculum vitae (in PDF format here: ) as the primary sources of the claim. I am not sure how to go about checking such a thing with King's College, but since the c.v. is a source available for public review online (and therefore verifiable as per WP:V) I don't think it really matters. I've never heard of any other Wikipedia biographical article requiring a check with the school, or a photo of the diploma, but I'm sure that Kinsella's potential customers and other interested parties would be interested in a 3rd party check regarding his education credentials. Unfortunately, I would argue that such a check (like a call to the school, for example) wouldn't be usable for Wikipedia purposes due to WP:NOR. Dick Clark 19:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Another edit summary from User:CMUAfroAmerStudiesKid: RV to reflect info about degree to which Kinsella lacks notability, and also he clearly isnt an alum of LSE as he doesn't even claim to have a degree from there (diff here: ). I would respond to this by referring the user to the Alumnus article, which clearly states that an alumnus (masculine) or alumna (feminine) of a college, university, or school is a former student. It continues, The term is often mistakenly thought of as synonymous with "graduate." Kinsella does not claim to have graduated from LSE, only to have attended some program there of some sort. Since I can't find a verifiable source where he claimed this, I am not reinserting the claim in the article at present. As noted above, however, his graduation from King's College is noted on his c.v. Dick Clark 20:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I just want to chime in, since the same question about "alumnus" came up elsewhere, that the dictionary definition of alumnus is, as I had always thought myself, "A male graduate or former student of a school, college, or university" (emphasis supplied). Dpbsmith (talk) 23:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I just saw all this discussion. Let me clear a few things up. First, I have never, ever stated I graduated from, am an alumnus of, or have a degree from, LSE. I have always stated the truth, which is that I have an LL.M. from King's College London--The University of London. Now, given this discussion about "alumnus," I suppose I am an LSE alumnus, since I was a student there. I enrolled in University of London's LL.M. program 1991-92 (in London--so it was not the "external degree" that someone else mentioned; I lived there and took the courses there for a year).  The LL.M. program there consisted of courses from 5 of the school's several colleges: LSE, King's, UCL, SOAS, and Queen Mary. You had to select one as your home school, the one that accepted you. I applied to both LSE and King's, and got accepted by King's.  I was waiting on LSE's answer, but King's student housing was filling up so I decided to accept King's to make sure I had a place to live, and I canceled the LSE application. In the program, you had to take at least half your courses from your home school; the rest could some from the other 4 law schools.  I took half my LL.M. courses at King's, and half at LSE; both are part of the U. London LL.M. program; and my degree is from U. London--King's.  NSKinsella (Stephan Kinsella) (talk) 19:40, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Oxymoron?
Isn't it a philosophical contradition to be a libertarian and an intellectual property attorney? Unless of course you are arguing against the protections of intellectual property law? Kind of like being an anti-war militarist ... Stevenmitchell 08:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Article talk pages are not intended for discussions about (or with) subjects. The reasin this page exists is to discuss the article. If you'd like to ask the subject a question you might try contacting him directly through his website. ·:·Will Beback  ·:· 10:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Picture
How recent is that picture of Kinsella, and what is its source? Isn't he much balder and much fatter now? Ikilled007 13:56, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The picture from his personal website was released with permission from Stephan back in 2005. I can neither confirm nor deny that he is any fatter. As for baldness, it would be a little unusual for him to be less bald, right? DickClarkMises 14:18, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think this warrants investigation. We need a current picture. The one on the page is fine for now. Ikilled007 14:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, for god's sake. Sure, I'm fatter and balder now. And older. Sue me.

Petition for Re-Deletion due to Lack of Notability
Due to its absence of neutral or credible sources, this piece clearly fails to meet Wikipedia's criterion of notability and should therefore be deleted unless neutral sources can justify Kinsella's claim (literally speaking, since Kinsella admits he wrote the page after one created by an ideological fellow traveler who has taken it upon himself to create dozens of pages for obscure libertarian thinkers) to prominence. I will give three reasons as to why this should be the case, although there are undoubtedly many more. I invite those who care about the Wikipedia criteria for deletion to do the same.

1) The criterion of notability asserts that "multiple sources are generally expected" of notable figures, and affiliated sources don't count as multiple sources; yet every citation on this page either comes from Mr. Kinsella himself (which doesn't count as a source, according to the rules) or comes from the anarchist libertarian Ludwig Von Mises Institute and its various publications (The Journal of Libertarian Studies, The Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics, and LewRockwell.com]. I fail to see a compelling reason as to why Kinsella should be exempt from this "general" rule.

2) The claim that Kinsella is a prominent legal theorist is sourced by his publication in the above-mentioned journals. Yet the scholarship portion of the "neutral source" requirement of the criterion of notability clearly indicates that "Journals that are not peer reviewed by the wider academic community should not be considered reliable, except to show the views of the groups represented by those journals." The only "peer-review" process of the above-mentioned journals are by Austrian Economists, a fringe group of extreme (almost all anarchistic) libertarians who reject the scientific method in their methodology (in other words, they wouldn't even been considered "economists" by mainstream thinkers). In other words, the sources of Kinsella's academic notability fail the neutrality test.

3) The scholarship portion of the neutral source requirement of the criterion of notability also indicates that scholarly sources should have entered (or in some way impacted) mainstream academic sources. This is supposed to be measured by " checking the scholarly citations it has received in citation indexes." As far as I can tell, those mainstream scholarly citations are virtually non-existent; the only citations are from ideologically affiliated "Austrian" (i.e., mostly anarchist economists who reject the scientific method applied to economics) sources. Steeletrap (talk) 00:37, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Update: the deletion petition (on grounds of notability) has been formally filed. The discussion page is here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steeletrap (talk • contribs) 01:14, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Note to editors: I am advised to notify the creator of the deletion nomination page ([|Kinsella himself]) and the main editor (DickClarkMises) of its nomination for deletion. I'm not sure how I am supposed to do that, despite having studied the Wiki deletion instructions to the best of my ability. I request your help in doing so, and in rectifying any other mistakes I made in the deletion process. Steeletrap (talk) 01:35, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

 * I have cleaned up the nomination, the template in the article and this talk page for ease of reading. I will notify the page creator and contributor for you. Stalwart 111  09:57, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Effectively unsourced
Okay, so I fixed some templates for the latest AFD and was subsequently asked for assistance with some related articles by the nominator and so have elected not to contribute to the AFD discussion itself. However, having cleaned the article up a bit I couldn't help but notice that it is (effectively) an unsourced BLP which is a major problem.

I'm conscious that the article subject is an editor here and feel confident that any problematic unsourced claims would be highlighted fairly quickly. That said, it does need to be fixed as soon as possible, in my view.

I have split the "sources" into two parts - notes (those sources written by the subject; WP:PRIMARY sources) and references (secondary sources written by others). However, of the secondary sources, two are used to reference claims about the theories of others on which the subject is said to have expanded (they're not actually about the subject, per se). The last is a source by someone who has previously co-authored work with the subject (hardly "independent"). All of this spells serious problems in terms of notability because there are effectively zero sources that confer notability. 6 by the subject, 2 not about the subject and 1 by a non-independent author, for a total of 9.

Anyone keen to have a crack at finding some sources? Stalwart 111  07:54, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

 * I don't think there are any such sources to justify the claims made about Mr. Kinsella in this article. I guess I could be wrong, but certainly a fifth nomination for removal may be in order if (within a reasonable timeframe) no one can? "Consensus" should not, in my view, override a crucial staple of Wikipedia like notability. Maybe contact Dick Clark Mises; he is the original creator of this piece (kinsella himself created this mirror version after Clark's version was deleted) and may know of some independent (i.e., non-Mises Institute) sources that attest to his notability. He also may be inclined to look, since he has the opposite bias as I do; namely, he is a friend of Kinsella's and a former Mises Institute employee. Steeletrap (talk) 02:49, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Publishers
is not that old of a catalog and other SK books are available through oceana on an active basis; moreover, his digests and compendenums are updated continuously, as is typical for legal publications. Accordingly, "are published" by UOP, Oceana law, is appropriate. – S. Rich (talk) 17:35, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I disagree, and would hope you get a third opinion on this. But I don't feel too strongly on that matter. What is important is distinguishing between the (mainstream/RS) publishing houses which have published his credible-yet-un-notable 3-4 legal papers from the self-published/Mises Institute/fringe sources that have published his libertarian theory (which is the source of his alleged notability). Steeletrap (talk) 18:14, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * You edit, parsing the legal works and political stuff, are just fine. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 18:27, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Recent edits
The following statement does not appear to be verified in the cited source: "he extends Murray Rothbard's and Williamson Evers's title transfer theory of contract" also the existence of the list of books is a primary source but we need a secondary source or a statement by Kinsella in order to state that they are about "libertarian subjects." I believe that my last edit here should be restored unless we can find appropriate sources to verify them. SPECIFICO talk  14:29, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

"published by Oxford U Press"
This line has been tendentiously inserted in the article, and was used by User:Srich32977 among others to stave off an AfD attempt a year ago. It is false. Kinsella was published by Oceana, a small legal publishing house that was purchased by OUP years after publishing Kinsella's work. OUP is offering to sell its copies of the Kinsella book on its website, but it lists Kinsella's publisher as "Oceana" and has published no new editions (meaning the editions they're selling were published before OUP owned Oceana). Moreover, Oceana is still a distinct entity from OUP. According to the accepted rules of citation, we cannot say Kinsella was published by OUP. Steeletrap (talk) 05:53, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

 * 1. Why are you saying "tendentiously"? The listing of books has been improved by several editors and explaining Oceana's parentage or acquirer (post-2002) was helpful, although not needed. But this was not a very collaborative statement. 2. Why are you removing WorldCat data? Because the links serve to tell readers who's publishing the books & where they are located in libraries? 3. Most importantly why did you remove Thompson West (publisher) as the current publisher? Look at ISBN 9780379012699 ISBN 0379012693   & Thompson/West website. (Moreover, these books receive regular updates.)  – S. Rich (talk) 16:53, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * This article should be deleted. The reason it wasn't was that you and all but one of the other "keeps" erroneously argued Kinsella "has been published by OUP." He has never published with OUP, and if you (or he) says he has you are violating the accepted rules of citations. Steeletrap (talk) 18:16, 26 February 2014 (UTC) Kinsella has written that he has "Oxford University Press books" but he is mistaken. As all the listings he links to on his website show, all of these books were published before OUP acquired Oceana, and no new editions of the books have been published by OUP (where did you get the idea that "these books receive regular updates"?). Because OUP bought Oceana, they had their interns put up its books for sale on the OUP website. But if we could conclude on this basis that OUP was his publisher, we'd also have to say that Ms. Steeletrap is Stephen Hawking's "publisher" because as an undergraduate she was assigned multiple books by him, and later sold them online. Steeletrap (talk) 18:31, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The AfD issue was debated several times previously and has nothing to do with correct citations. The books have been published by two different publishers. The current publisher is Thompson/West. And Thompson West regularly sends out monthly updates (at a cost of $100+/$200+ per month). Oceana might list the older versions on their website, but no law library is going to buy them when the current issue is available from West. Look at the West website for update info.  – S. Rich (talk) 18:47, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You can re-list Thompson/West for the final book. I think the citation is mistaken and is confusing a listing on Westlaw with publication by Thompson/West. But at least there is a citation. We have clear evidence that Kinsella has not been published by OUP. Steeletrap (talk) 18:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Guys, Thomson publishes all kinds of stuff. That doesn't mean it's all scholarly or even noteworthy.  SPECIFICO  talk  18:58, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I totally thought that! I know little about the law (both Rich and I showcased our ignorance of the source by our spelling of West/Thomson as "Thompson"), but I have some friends who do. They say hundreds of law students get published on Westlaw every year. The OUP issue I know more about; it's obvious he hasn't been published by them, yet alleged 'OUP publications' were the basis for retianing this article at the last AfD.Steeletrap (talk) 19:16, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Tpyos (such as "retianing") don't display ignorance. Your friends are not quite accurate. Westlaw is a different animal from the publishing company. The citation you provided (googlebooks) shows that he "has been" published, in the past, by Ocean. So that portion of the publication listing gets copy editing. – S. Rich (talk) 19:39, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm just teasing Richie. You men need to be less sensitive. (See the outcry over my use of the term "Binkie.") Steeletrap (talk) 20:47, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I know you may think you're being cute, teasing with the male editors, but you don't know their sexual or social preferences and your flirtations could be offensive. It's best to stick to business here. Please consider.  SPECIFICO  talk  21:08, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You're right. I apologize to both Bink and Rich. I need to be more sensitive to their needs. Steeletrap (talk) 21:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Stephan Kinsella


text:
User:DennisArter

Dennis Arter is an independent consultant and trainer. He instructs large and small firms in the fields of quality auditing and quality systems. Dennis has served clients in the fields of government, manufacturing, chemicals, energy, food, research, aerospace, finance, medical devices, pharmaceuticals, and health care. He has been auditing since 1975.

Dennis Arter has presented his course on quality auditing to over 8,000 people since 1980. He is the author of the classic text Quality Audits for Improved Performance. Dennis is an ASQ Fellow, recent Board member, and active in the ASQ Customer-Supplier Division.

Arter has a degree in biochemistry from the University of Illinois and is a licensed mechanical engineer. He was on the team that developed the ASQ Certified Quality Auditor program and holds a CQA charter certificate. He has traveled extensively throughout the USA and Canada, as well as the United Kingdom, Ireland, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and the Peoples Republic of China. He resides in eastern Washington State with his wife of 35 years.

January 2005

title: User:DennisArter


text:
Esther Hicks

Esther Hicks (née Weaver, born March 5, 1948) is an American inspirational speaker, channeler, and author. She has co-written nine books with her husband Jerry Hicks, presented numerous workshops on the law of attraction with Abraham-Hicks Publications and appeared in the original version of the 2006 film The Secret. Hicks claims she channels a collective consciousness she calls "Abraham". As with other channellers, she uses a different tone of voice and accent to indicate the entity is speaking through her.

Biography
Esther Weaver was born in Coalville, Utah, on March 5, 1948. At age 20, she met her first husband and had two daughters from that marriage, one of whom (Tracy) works with her. In 1976, she met Jerry Hicks, then a successful Amway distributor, and they married four years later. In his early life, Jerry Hicks had been a circus acrobat for two years in Cuba, and then, beginning in 1948, toured for 20 years as a musician, master of ceremonies, and comedian. He had been married several times before meeting Esther.

Esther's channeling experiences started in 1985, after she and Jerry read channeller Jane Roberts's books and after a consultation with a channeller in Phoenix, where they were living.

Hicks started giving private readings in 1987 and conferences the following year, working from their estate in San Antonio and traveling from location to location in a luxury motorhome well into the 2000s. Cruises were eventually added to the road trips. Their popularity skyrocketed after Esther appeared in the original version of the 2006 DVD film The Secret. The film contained an excerpt of a 2005 cruise conference showing Hicks explaining the Law of attraction, a central concept of The Secret's mystical self-help discourse. Hicks is also offering video lectures, including exclusives for paying subscribers. As of January 2023, their YouTube subscriber count was 741,000, with the most popular video at 14.6 million views.

Jerry Hicks died November 18, 2011, from cancer. He was 85 years old.

New thought teachings
Hicks claims that by attuning their thoughts to the frequency of the universe, people will receive whatever they desire. It reuses the same basic concepts as older American self-help books of the New Thought movement, such as William Walker Atkinson's The Law of Attraction in the Thought World. An attempt by Hicks to copyright the phrase Law of attraction was rejected by the United States Patent Office because it had been used by Atkinson as early as 1906. Labeling these beliefs as prosperity consciousness, Gordon Melton traces their origin in 19th century Christian Science.

As of 2013, they summarized their teachings into three universal principles: Law of Attraction (thoughts vibrating with the universe), Science of Deliberate Creation (thoughts manifest reality) and Art of Allowing (attracting people).

Most messages promoted by Hicks as coming from Abraham amount to wishing for good things to happen, but occasionally veered into blaming victims of rape for the crime and people getting infected with AIDS because they lack self-love.

The Secret
Esther Hicks narrated and appeared in the original version of the film The Secret, as well as being a central source of the film's inspiration. The footage featuring Hicks was removed from the later "Extended Edition" after the film's creator Rhonda Byrne.

According to different accounts, Hicks either left the collaboration out of ideological differences with the producer. or was told by Rhonda Byrne that her part would be edited out and that she wouldn't receive any royalties beyond the $500,000 already paid, Byrne arguing that Hicks merely used concepts that has been previously published.

In an interview with Oprah Winfrey, Hicks said the episode left her feeling ill-treated by Byrne.

In 2007, Esther Hicks released her own popular DVD series, The Secret behind the Secret.

Books
Several of the books written by Esther and Jerry Hicks have made it to bestseller lists in the United States. Hay House Inc. published the Hicks' book, Ask and it is Given, in September 2004. Since that book they have also published The Amazing Power of Deliberate Intent (January 2006), The Law of Attraction (October 2006), The Astonishing Power of Emotions (September 2008), Money and the Law of Attraction: Learning to Attract Health, Wealth & Happiness, and The Vortex: Where the Law of Attraction Assembles All Cooperative Relationships (2009).

 * A New Beginning I: Handbook for Joyous Survival, by Jerry and Esther Hicks. Published by Abraham–Hicks Publications, 5th edition, 1988.
 * A New Beginning II: A Personal Handbook to Enhance your Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness, by Jerry and Esther Hicks. Published by Abraham–Hicks Publications, 1991.
 * Sara and the Foreverness of Friends of a Feather, by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Published by Abraham–Hicks Publications, 1995.
 * Ask and it is Given: Learning to Manifest Your Desires by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Published by Hay House, 2005.
 * The Amazing Power of Deliberate Intent: Living the Art of Allowing, by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Contributor Louise L. Hay. Published by Hay House, 2005.
 * The Law of Attraction: The Basics of the Teachings of Abraham Esther and Jerry Hicks. Published by Hay House, 2006.
 * Sara, Book 1: Sara Learns the Secret about the Law of Attraction, by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Illustrated by Caroline S. Garrett. Published by Hay House, 2007.
 * Sara, Book 2: Solomon's Fine Featherless Friends, by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Illustrated by Caroline S. Garrett. Published by Hay House Inc, 2007.
 * Sara, Book 3: A Talking Owl is Worth a Thousand Words!, by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Illustrated by Caroline S. Garrett. Published by Hay House Inc, 2008.
 * The Astonishing Power of Emotions, by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Published by Hay House Inc, 2008.
 * Money and the Law of Attraction: Learning to Attract Health, Wealth & Happiness by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Published by Hay House, 2008.
 * The Vortex: Where the Law of Attraction Assembles All Cooperative Relationships by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Published by Hay House, 2009.
 * Getting into the Vortex: Guided Meditations CD and User Guide by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Release date November 15, 2010. Published by Hay House, 2009.

title: Esther Hicks


text:
The North Wind and the Sun

The North Wind and the Sun is one of Aesop's Fables (Perry Index 46). It is type 298 (Wind and Sun) in the Aarne–Thompson folktale classification. The moral it teaches about the superiority of persuasion over force has made the story widely known. It has also become a chosen text for phonetic transcriptions.

Story and application
The story concerns a competition between the North wind and the Sun to decide which is the stronger of the two. The challenge was to make a passing traveler remove his cloak. However hard the wind blew, the traveler only wrapped his cloak tighter to keep warm, but when the Sun shone, the traveler was overcome with heat and soon took his cloak off.

The fable was well known in Ancient Greece; Athenaeus records that Hieronymus of Rhodes, in his Historical Notes, quoted an epigram of Sophocles against Euripides that parodied the story of Helios and Boreas. It related how Sophocles had his cloak stolen by a boy to whom he had made love. Euripides joked that he had had that boy too, and it did not cost him anything. Sophocles' reply satirises the adulteries of Euripides:

It was the Sun, and not a boy, whose heat stripped me naked; as for you, Euripides, when you were kissing someone else's wife the North Wind screwed. You are unwise, you who sow in another's field, to accuse Eros of being a snatch-thief.

The Latin version of the fable first appeared centuries later in Avianus, as De Vento et Sole (Of the Wind and the Sun, Fable 4); early versions in English and Johann Gottfried Herder's poetic version in German (Wind und Sonne) named it similarly. It was only in mid-Victorian times that the title "The North Wind and the Sun" began to be used. In fact, the Avianus poem refers to the characters as Boreas and Phoebus, the divinities of the north wind and the Sun, and it was under the title Phébus et Borée that it appeared in La Fontaine's Fables (VI.3).

Gilles Corrozet, who had compiled a fable collection in French verse earlier than La Fontaine, twice featured the contest between the sun and the wind in his emblem books. In Hecatomgraphie (1540), the first of these, the story is told in a quatrain, accompanied by a woodcut in which a man holds close a fur cloak under the wintry blast while on the other side he strips naked beneath the sun's rays. It is titled with the moral "More by gentleness than strength" (Plus par doulceur que par force). The same illustration was used to accompany another poem in Corrozet's later Emblemes (1543), which counsels taking enjoyment and being careful as necessity demands, wisely adapting oneself to circumstances in the same way as one dresses differently for winter than for summer.

Victorian versions of the fable give the moral as "Persuasion is better than force", but it had been put in different ways at other times. In the Barlow edition of 1667, Aphra Behn taught the Stoic lesson that there should be moderation in everything: "In every passion moderation choose, For all extremes do bad effects produce". In the 18th century, Herder came to the theological conclusion that, while superior force leaves us cold, the warmth of Christ's love dispels it, and Walter Crane's limerick version of 1887 gives a psychological interpretation, "True strength is not bluster". But for Guy Wetmore Carryl in his humorous rewriting of the fable, "The Impetuous Breeze and the Diplomatic Sun", tact is the lesson to be learned. There the competition is between the man and the wind; the sun only demonstrates the right way of achieving one's end.

While most examples draw a moral lesson, La Fontaine's "Mildness more than violence achieves" (Fables VI.3) hints at the political application that was present also in Avianus' conclusion: "They cannot win who start with threats". There is evidence that this reading has had an explicit influence on the diplomacy of modern times: in South Korea's Sunshine Policy, for instance, or Japanese relations with the military regime in Myanmar.

The fable in the arts
Jean Restout made a painting of La Fontaine's fable for the Hôtel de Soubise in 1738. This showed a traveller on horseback among mountains under a stormy sky. In his print of the same subject, Jean-Baptiste Oudry reversed the perspective to show the god riding a cloud chariot with the horseback traveller merely a small figure below. This too was the perspective of Gustave Moreau's 1879 watercolour in the series he painted of the fables. In modern times, the fable has been made into a 3-minute animated film for children by the National Film Board of Canada (1972). It also figured as part of a 1987 set of Greek stamps.

The fable was the third of five in Anthony Plog's "Aesop's Fables" for narrator, piano and horn (1989/93); it is also one of the five pieces in Bob Chilcott's "Aesop's Fables" for piano and choir (2008). And, under the title "The Wind and the Sun", the English composer Philip Godfrey (b.1964) has made a setting for children's choir and piano.

La Fontaine's Phébus et Borée was choreographed in 2006 by Karine Ponties as part of Annie Sellem's composite ballet production of La Fontaine's Fables as a 25-minute performance for a male and female dancer. Its creator has commented on the fable's theme that 'it demonstrates people's vulnerability to cosmic forces and the inner links there are between natural events and our life as humans.' But for the Scottish artist Jane Topping (b. 1972), who referenced "The North Wind and the Sun" in her 2009 installation, the fable is to be interpreted in the context of subliminal persuasion via images.

Use in phonetic demonstrations
The fable is made famous by its use in phonetic descriptions of languages as an illustration of spoken language. In the Handbook of the International Phonetic Association and the Journal of the International Phonetic Association, a translation of the fable into each language described is transcribed into the International Phonetic Alphabet. It is recommended by the IPA for the purpose of eliciting all phonemic contrasts that occur in English when conducting tests by foreign users or of regional usage. For example, the description of American English in the Handbook of the International Phonetic Association includes the following as a sample text:

 * Broad transcription

 * Narrow transcription (differences emphasized)

 * Orthographic version
 * The North Wind and the Sun were disputing which was the stronger, when a traveler came along wrapped in a warm cloak.
 * They agreed that the one who first succeeded in making the traveler take his cloak off should be considered stronger than the other.
 * Then the North Wind blew as hard as he could, but the more he blew the more closely did the traveler fold his cloak around him;
 * and at last the North Wind gave up the attempt. Then the Sun shined out warmly, and immediately the traveler took off his cloak.
 * And so the North Wind was obliged to confess that the Sun was the stronger of the two.

The fable has also been proposed as a parallel text in comparative linguistics as it provides more natural language than the Lord's Prayer. In addition, impromptu tellings can indicate differences within languages such as dialects or national varieties. The example above, for instance, has shined where British English usage is shone. The previous IPA handbook transcribed shone for the Southern British and Scottish versions, but began to shine for the American English version. For an illustration of New Zealand English, the fable was replaced by "The Southerly Wind and the Sun" to make it geographically appropriate.

title: The North Wind and the Sun


text:
Ahmed Zaki Yamani

Ahmed Zaki Yamani (أحمد زكي يماني; 30 June 1930 – 23 February 2021) was a Saudi Arabian politician who served as Minister of Petroleum and Mineral Resources under four Saudi monarchs from 1962 to 1986, and a minister in the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) for 25 years.

With degrees from institutions including New York University School of Law, Harvard Law School, and a doctorate from the University of Exeter, Yamani became a close adviser to the Saudi government in 1958 and then became oil minister in 1962. He is known for his role during the 1973 oil embargo, when he spurred OPEC to quadruple the price of crude oil.

In December 1975, Yamani and the other OPEC ministers were taken hostage by the terrorist Carlos (the Jackal) in Vienna, Austria. The hostages were released after two days riding an airplane across North Africa, even though Carlos was ordered by his superiors to execute Yamani and his Iranian counterpart Jamshid Amouzegar.

Yamani was dismissed as the oil minister by King Fahd in October 1986. In 1990, Yamani founded the Centre for Global Energy Studies, a market analysis group, and remained involved in private investments and cultural foundations.

Early life and education
Ahmed Zaki Yamani was born in Mecca on 30 June 1930, the youngest of three children. His father, Hassan Yamani, was a Qadi in the Hejaz and a respected scholar of Islamic law, acting as Grand Mufti in Indonesia and Malaysia. His mother, Fatima Suruji, was a poet as well as a homemaker.

Yamani's grandfather was Grand Mufti in Turkey. The Yamani surname originates from Yemen from where his paternal ancestors originated.

Yamani earned a bachelor's degree in law at King Fouad I University in Cairo in 1951. Next, the Saudi government sent Yamani to New York University's Comparative Law Institute for non-American lawyers at NYU Law School and in 1955 he received a master's degree in comparative jurisprudence. With the help of an NYU professor, Yamani spent the next year at Harvard Law School earning his second master's in 1956.

Career
Yamani returned to the Saudi Ministry of Finance, joining the new Department of Zakat and Income Tax. In 1959, Yamani was invited by Prince Faisal, then Crown Prince and Prime Minister, to work as a legal adviser to his office. When King Saud returned to full power in 1960 with the support of the Free Princes, however, Faisal resigned as Prime Minister and Yamani returned to his law practice and began teaching at the University of Riyadh. According to Yamani, King Saud then offered him the position of oil minister but he declined. Several months later a new cabinet was formed with Faisal as Crown Prince and Deputy Prime Minister and in March 1962 the incumbent oil minister and founding father of OPEC, Abdullah Tariki, was replaced by Yamani.

In 1962 the General Petroleum and Mineral Organization (Petromin) was established, designed to become the national oil company. In 1964 University of Petroleum and Minerals was established, with the aim of producing Saudis with the skills to manage this company in the future. Following OPEC negotiations in 1972, the Saudi government bought 25% ownership of Aramco. From 1974, Saudi participation increased to 60% and in 1976 total Saudi ownership was agreed, with payments completed in 1980.

As oil minister of Saudi Arabia, Yamani took an important role in the development of the newly created OPEC. Faced with the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, Yamani spoke against the use of an Arab oil embargo. The 1967 embargo was ineffective, although the experience led to a consideration of the possible political benefits of an Arab-only oil organisation. Yamani took the lead role in the development of this idea and in 1968 the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) was joined by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Libya. Several other countries joined in 1970 and Egypt, Syria, and Iraq joined in the early 1970s.

1973 oil crisis
During the Yom Kippur War, Yamani took the initiative and planned to drop oil production initially by 10 percent alongside other OPEC members, followed by 5 percent reductions each month. On 16 October, the six Persian Gulf members of OPEC met in Kuwait and took the decision to raise oil prices from US$3 to $5.12. This was the first time the producer countries had independently set the price of their oil. On the next day, the ten OAPEC members agreed to Yamani's moderate production cutback proposals. An embargo to countries seen as "hostile" was also recommended but not enforced, although by 22 October all OAPEC countries had placed an embargo on the United States, the Netherlands, and Denmark.

The production cutbacks, increased to 25 percent in November, affected the economic health of all Western powers. To gain political support, Yamani travelled through Europe, the United States, and Japan with Algerian oil minister Belaid Abdesselam. Both Yamani and OPEC became well known in the West, with Yamani described as "the man of the moment" in Newsweek International's 24 December 1973 cover article. Attempts by the United States at bringing together a consumer's cartel failed, and the EEC and Japan called on Israel to withdraw from Arab territories occupied in 1967.

On 22 December, the Persian Gulf members of OPEC met again in Tehran where the Shah, backed by the other states, urged that the price of oil be raised to over $20 a barrel. Yamani opposed this extreme increase, but could not contact Saudi Arabia from Tehran. Fearing a split in OPEC, Yamani decided on a compromise that put oil at $11.65, four times the price of a barrel prior to 16 October. Following progress with Arab-Israeli disengagement agreements, a decision was taken to end the embargo, which was formally lifted on 17 March 1974.

Saudi Arabia continued to push for price reductions from the $11.65 level, opposed by other OPEC members. This increasingly came to be seen as a pro-American stance by the other producers, although defended by Yamani as a safer option for the world economy. Saudi Arabia has been criticised for using its dominant position to force its own interests and its long-term production strategy, as a lower price enables the country to keep a high market share and discourages development of alternative energy sources that would curtail the worldwide demand for oil. To this point, Yamani famously said in 1973: "The Stone Age didn't end because we ran out of stones." (However, the quote may have been wrongly attributed by this and other sources.)

Assassination of King Faisal
On 25 March 1975, King Faisal was shot dead by his nephew Faisal bin Musaid. The young prince had joined a Kuwaiti delegation, led by oil minister Abdul Mutaleb Kazimi, which Yamani had escorted to the King's office. Yamani was standing next to the King when the shots were fired and, after interrogation, it was discovered that Faisal bin Musad also believed Yamani to have been shot dead in the attack. Yamani continued in his role as oil minister for another eleven years after the death of Faisal.

1975 hostage siege
On 21 December 1975, Saudi Arabia's Yamani, Iran's Jamshid Amuzegar, and the other OPEC oil ministers were taken hostage at their semi-annual conference in Vienna, Austria. The attack, which killed three non-ministers, was carried out by a six-person team led by Venezuelan terrorist Carlos the Jackal, which included Gabriele Kröcher-Tiedemann, and Hans-Joachim Klein. The self-named "Arm of the Arab Revolution" group called for the liberation of Palestine. Carlos planned to take over the conference by force and hold for ransom all eleven attending oil ministers, except for Yamani and Amuzegar who were to be executed.

Carlos arranged bus and plane travel for his team and 42 of the original 63 hostages, with stops in Algiers and Tripoli, planning to fly eventually to Baghdad, where Yamani and Amuzegar were to be killed. All 30 non-Arab hostages were released in Algiers, excluding Amuzegar. Additional hostages were released at another stop in Tripoli before returning to Algiers. With only 10 hostages remaining, Carlos held a phone conversation with Algerian President Houari Boumédienne, who informed Carlos that the oil ministers' deaths would result in an attack on the plane. Boumédienne must also have offered Carlos asylum at this time and possibly financial compensation for failing to complete his assignment. Carlos expressed his regret at not being able to murder Yamani and Amuzegar, then he and his comrades left the plane. All the hostages and terrorists walked away from the situation, two days after it began.

Some time after the attack, Carlos's accomplices revealed that the operation was commanded by Wadie Haddad, a founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. They also claimed that the idea and funding came from an Arab president, widely thought to be Libya's Muammar al-Gaddafi. Fellow militants Bassam Abu Sharif and Klein claimed that Carlos received and kept a ransom between US$20 million and US$50 million from "an Arab president". Carlos claimed that Saudi Arabia paid ransom on behalf of Iran, but that the money was "diverted en route and lost by the Revolution".

Continuation of Saudi oil policy
At an OPEC meeting in September 1975 in Vienna, Saudi Arabia continued to oppose sharp increases in the price of oil. Yamani was required to gain approval from Crown Prince Fahd for any increase to be agreed in excess of 5%. Unable to contact Saudi Arabia from Vienna, Yamani left the meeting and flew to London on his private jet in order to find a secure telephone. This incident was widely publicized.

At an OPEC meeting in May 1976 in Bali, Iran and seven other members advocated a 20% increase in oil prices to match inflation, although Saudi Arabia favoured a six-month price freeze. The Iraqi oil minister fiercely criticised Yamani and Saudi Arabia for pro-Western policy, which led to Yamani leaving the meeting and demanding an apology. This was settled and the six-month price freeze was agreed.

Six months later, OPEC assembled in Doha and Saudi Arabia again faced pressure to raise prices. Saudi Arabia and the UAE were the only two member countries not to agree to a 10% increase in January 1977 followed by an additional 5% increase in July. This led to a period of two-tier pricing with Saudi Arabia and the UAE charging $12.09 per barrel and the other OPEC countries $12.70 per barrel. In July 1977, an OPEC meeting in Stockholm ended two-tier pricing, with prices re-unified at $12.70.

In 1979, the Iranian Revolution resulted in the 1979 energy crisis. Saudi Arabia and other OPEC members managed to increase production sufficiently to replace that lost from Iran, but this did not prevent panic buying of oil. OPEC also maintained an official price, although the spot market led to oil prices being negotiated upward. Yamani claimed that Saudi Arabia would not sell over the OPEC price, but would remain committed to the reduction of oil prices.

Removal from office
The panic buying during the 1979 energy crisis led to increased oil stocks which began to flood the market and resulted in price wars between oil-producing nations competing for market share. This in turn led to reduced income for Saudi Arabia. On 13 June 1982, in the course of this downturn, King Khalid died of a heart attack and Crown Prince Fahd became King and Prime Minister.

The beginning of Fahd's rule was marred by the reduced oil income caused by the 1980s oil glut. The restricted national budget also encouraged the use of oil in barter deals. In 1984, Saudi Arabia purchased ten Boeing 747s to join the fleet of Saudia Airlines, paid for using 34.5 Moilbbl of oil.

At an OPEC meeting in October 1986, Fahd sent his oil minister a cable demanding Saudi Arabia's oil quota to be increased and the price of oil set at $18, which Yamani refused to sign. On 29 October 1986, a brief announcement was made on Saudi television that Yamani had been dismissed. He was replaced by Hisham Nazer.

Other activities
In July 1982, Yamani founded Investcorp, a private equity firm, with several other oil ministers and well-known financiers. The firm's initial investments included Tiffany & Co., Breguet, a Swiss watch maker, and Chaumet, a French jeweller. Yamani, himself known to be a watch lover, also became majority shareholder of Vacheron Constantin in 1987. In 1996, Yamani's shares were then sold to Vendôme Luxury Group, owned by Richemont. In 1988, Yamani established the Al-Furqan Islamic Heritage Foundation under the Yamani Cultural and Charitable Foundation, which endeavours to preserve and publish historically important Islamic works. In 1990, Yamani founded the Centre for Global Energy Studies, a London-based market analysis group claiming to provide objective information on energy issues. Board members have included Edward Heath, Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, and Denis Healey, all of whom were friends of Yamani.

Personal life
Yamani married his first wife Laila Sulaiman Faidhi, an Iraqi, in 1955. Together they had three children. Yamani's first daughter, Mai Yamani, was born in 1956, followed by second daughter Maha in 1959, and first son Hani in 1961. Mai studied anthropology and is now an author and scholar, and a former Research Fellow at the Royal Institute for International Affairs. Maha received a law degree from Cambridge, and Hani a degree in business administration.

Yamani married his second wife Tamam al Anbar on 23 March 1975, and had five children: Faisal (born 1976), Sharaf (born 1977), Sarah (born 1979), Arwa (born 1981), and Ahmed (born 1983).

Yamani was fluent in Arabic, English, and French. His negotiation style, as remarked on by Henry Kissinger, was to wine and dine other dignitaries until the point of fullness and lethargy, before beginning protracted negotiations (Reader's Digest, circa 1970).

Yamani died of heart failure on 22 February 2021 in London, aged 90, to be later buried in his hometown, Mecca.

title: Ahmed Zaki Yamani


text:
Talk:Rainbow Gathering

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2018 World Rainbow Gathering is going to happen in Taiwan? No references.
We read "2018 World Rainbow Gathering is going to happen in Taiwan.[88]" But 88 is a 2013 article, Jidanni (talk) 14:11, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

Where can I upload sound recordings
I have roughly 17 years of field recordings from rainbow gatherings mostly from US gatherings, but a few world gatherings, too. My web site with featured recordings: https://soundsfromtherainbow.org/ I feel the oral tradition is still the primary medium of rainbow subculture, and it would be a nice addition to feature a link to said recordings for curious ears. Thoughts? I've never wiki edited before so forgive if this is the wrong place to ask. Tenalihrenak (talk) 00:07, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, I have attended about 15 of the US gatherings & have been editing Wikipedia since 2010. I use the same nickname at the gatherings & as my Wikipedia user name.

 * The media repository for all Wikipedias & other WMF projects is Wikimedia Commons (usually just called Commons). To upload files, you can use the Upload Wizard. The advantage of loading it to Commons is that other language Wikipedias & other Wikimedia projects can also link to the files.

 * You will need to chose one of three licenses: CC0 (essentially releasing it into the public domain), Attribution/CC-BY or Attribution-ShareAlike/CC-BY-SA. This page will explain licensing better than I can.

 * I hope this helps! Peaceray (talk) 05:43, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Not NPOV
This article currently reads to me as very biased with a clearly negative point of view. Most of the negative comments reference the same source. Somebody with an agenda seems to be responsible for much of its current state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:E6CD:2801:8D16:FC1F:66B6:F70A (talk) 03:54, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

 * agree. "Spiritually, there is a strong tradition of Cultural appropriation, with the largely white attendees performing their ideas of Indigenous ceremonies, African drumming, Rastafari, Eastern religions, Neopaganism, and freethought. " seems particularly troubling. Leaving the race bashing aside... Africans don't have a lock in on drums, all cultures have drums.  And there are certainly genuine Rastafarians, Buddhists, etc... there.  Neopaganism isn't white?  as for "freethought", wikipedia's own page says <>  this hardly seems like "Cultural appropriation". 173.93.205.188 (talk) 18:32, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The examples ("...their ideas of Indigenous ceremonies, African drumming, Rastafari, Eastern religions, Neopaganism, and freethought...") appear to be original research, but the claims of cultural appropriation that are sourced should remain in the article. Schazjmd   (talk)  19:39, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

 * I replaced the blanked content that was sourced. While there is an appropriation section, it is well within policy guidelines to briefly mention these things whenever spirituality or reputation of the group comes up, as it is a core component of the Rainbows' identity and activities. This has been stable, sourced content for years and you will need broader consensus from editors in good standing to remove it. Additionally, there is significant criticism of the group in this article as there is a great deal of criticism in WP:RS sources. There has been increasing ecological destruction and violence at these events over the decades. It's no longer a small, hippie gathering. - CorbieVreccan  ☊ ☼ 20:18, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Shortened footnotes
I plan to revise the two shortened footnotes "Niman 1997" & ""Sentelle 2002" in accordance with Help:Shortened footnotes & sfn so that the full citations will appear in a separate reference list (commonly called Sources) instead of being tossed in willy-nilly with the other footnotes. Please see WP:SRF & Template:Sfn for examples. Peaceray (talk) 05:59, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rainbow Gathering


text:
User talk:Mrlewarcher

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Speedy deletion of Evan Mendel
A tag has been placed on Evan Mendel requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Pollytyred (talk) 23:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mrlewarcher