text:
Talk:OpenCola (drink)

Anyone made a batch?
Has anyone here actually made a batch of OpenCola? I've tried to find the ingredients but have gad no luck. If anyone knows where to find them, post it here or leave me a comment on my talk page--Roofus 17:27, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

 * There must be a wholesale market for these product. I use phosphoric acid as a fertilizer in my acuarium, and ordered it through a farmacy, 1kg cost about 10USD. You can imagine where I get the water from :-).Cgonzalezdelhoyo 09:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd love to see an "open" Dr Pepper taste-alike recipe - NoSnooz 19:18, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate warnings
I don't think warnings like "DO NOT USE art-grade gum arabic" are appropriate. This is not an encyclopedia, not an instruction manual. I would go so far as to say that no sentence should be in the imperative mood. —Keenan Pepper 00:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I've removed it.--Roofus 02:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Why not make a wiki book with proper instructions to OpenCola and link to it? JayKeaton 18:14, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the presence of the actual recipe here is verging on ridiculous. I've had similar simple recipes removed for this reason from the Master Cleanse page.  I say just link to it, don't reproduce it. Mugwumpjism (talk) 03:48, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I've done a batch... it's great... although I went a little heavy on the lime and the citric acid... tastes very much like cola candies (gummy bottles). I live in the middle of greenwhich village NYC so essential oils are available everywhere. I recommand the shop Aphrodisia on Bleecker St, they have every oil you can think of, phosphoric and citric acid and food grade arabic gum. Price is okay, I made it to break-even with coke bottles sold in stores.

A pedant writes
Can we even put GPL recipes on a GFDL wiki? Pseudomonas 18:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I doubt it'll be a problem. -Roofus 22:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you mean you think it's not a license violation or you think that no one cares enough to make an issue of it? As is, I can copy the recipe off the (GFDL) Wikipedia and release a derivative under a proprietary license, AIUI. Pseudomonas 02:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * What? You can't distribute a derivative of a GFDL document under a proprietary license. The relevant quote is "provided that you release the Modified Version under precisely this License". —Keenan Pepper 03:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't even think the license applies and I can't believe that you people are that hung up on it. If you read the GPL, you'll see that it mentions the word "software" 35 times and the words "source code" 11 times.  It makes no mention of "food" "beverage" or "recipe."   It's a joke.  -Roofus 06:47, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * how can one distinguish between a recipe and say a piece of html code? the only difference is the performer of the instructions: human and computer. so, if recipe is not a "source code", then manually copied/'painted' html code shouldn't be either..:) --81.215.215.115 10:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the point is that the RECIPE is what is covered by the GPL. The COLA is a product produced by the RECIPE. Like the web pages served from a web server - the server software may be GPL'd but that doesn't mean that all the pages it serves are GPL - They can be a proprietary as you like. Slothie 14:47, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Definition of Open Source
I don't mean to pick nits, but the part about carbonating water at home with yeast seems to replace "open source" with the concept of "homespun" Pretty much any ingredient, even yeast, is going to be closed source at some level--just because you use a machine to carbonate water does not mean that you don't know what or how much of the ingredient you are putting in. In other terms, Ubuntu is open source, but using Ubuntu does not mean you wrote the operating system on your computer yourself. You may not even know how it works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.253.7.233 (talk) 19:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * A "source" is where something comes from and a recipe is a source and as it is free to share while most corporations keep it a secret the name freely applies, even if it were a misnomer WP:COMMONNAME doesn't allow Wikipedia to use the correct term. --59.153.232.180 (talk) 06:15, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Software drinks?
uhh... pls explain.

It's too simple, Tux drinks it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.135.178.206 (talk) 23:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Citation needed
"The legal grounds for this are dubious however, as recipes are exempted from copyright as they are techniques, not artworks."

i think this line needs a citation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.64.25.25 (talk • contribs) 22:23, 26 June 2007

 * Recepies are not universially exempt from copyright. It differs from country to country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.209.129.51 (talk) 02:13, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

 * I'm not the person who added the above quote, but I have added a reworded version of it, plus references to US and Canadian copyright law. Merenta (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

This is a Cola ?
In the United States, for a drink to be legally called a "cola", it must contain all sorts of ingredients. Drinks that have some modification have to have the spelling changed, viz. the unsuccessful drinks called some form of "Kola" or "Qola" (the latter had honey). Caramel coloring, for example, is required. The sweetener used to have to be sugar, though that didn't stop the major manufacturers from switching to corn syrup without a pause. WHERE is the KOLA NUT extract in this recipe? (Headline comes from what a friend's son said when I poured him some Moxie: This is a drink?) 74.10.198.105 (talk) 20:16, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Is Lavender Oil warning needed?
Is Lavender Oil warning needed?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender:

"Controversy over possible endocrine-disrupting activity. In 2007 a study was published in the New England Journal of Medicine which indicated that studies in human cell lines indicated that both lavender oil and tea tree oil had estrogenic and antiandrogenic activities. They concluded that repeated topical exposure to lavender and tea tree oils probably caused prepubertal gynaecomastia in some boys.[15]  The study has been criticised on many different levels by many authorities.  The Aromatherapy Trade Council of the UK has issued a rebuttal [16]

The Australian Tea Tree Association, a group that promotes the interests of Australian tea tree oil producers, exporters and manufacturers issued a letter that questioned the study and called on the New England Journal of Medicine for a retraction (ATTIA). [17]

The New England Journal of Medicine has so far not replied and has not retracted the study."

184.76.223.30 (talk) 18:27, 16 February 2011 (UTC) somitcw

Licensing fail..

 * "Anybody can make the drink, and anyone can modify and improve on the recipe as long as they, too, license their recipe under the GNU General Public License. Since recipes are, by themselves, not copyrightable, the legal basis for this is untested."

It doesn't need to be tested. If recipes can not be copyrighted then they can not be copyrighted. End of story. --95.144.114.166 (talk) 18:21, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

Merge with open-source cola
I would support merging OpenCola (drink) into open-source cola, but would not support merging open-source cola into OpenCola (drink).

OpenCola is one drink. I don't think it has been made for some years. It was made to prove a point, rather than to be a serious product. Others, such as Cube Cola, are still available today and are distributed (as the flavouring syrup) beyond their small manufacturers. The fact that the WP OpenCola article is older doesn't change this, nor does the Cory Doctorow fanboy effect. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:21, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

 * I (as the one who proposed the merge) have to agree with you. I missed this slight difference because of my bad english. I originaly decided to suggest the merge in this direction mostly because of the Language-Links. I changed the Template from Template:Merge to to Template:Merge. Considering this difference, I would even suggest to not merge, but to clearify this difference, though I'm not sure if OpenCola (as this specific one) is seriously notable enough. In german Wikipedia, even OpenCola (iirc mostly about open-source cola, not specific to OpenCola (drink)) was proposed for deletition several times with this reason and survived all of them. The last time it got deleted against arguments and majority, so there is currently no german article about open-source cola – seems like no one realy cares... --nenntmichruhigip (Diskussion) 23:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Oppose merge. As Andy says above, OpenCola is but one example. Putting all the OpenCola content into Open-source cola would make the latter article unbalanced and too long. And if we wanted more content on Cube Cola or some future "open" cola, then they would have to go into the merged article also. Pelagic (talk) 19:49, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Since this has been open for over a year-and-a-half without comment, and nenntmichruhigip is probably not monitoring this page, can we get an uninvolved editor to close the discussion and remove the merge templates, please? Pelagic (talk) 19:49, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

 * Never mind, after some thought I've boldly removed the templates myself, on the basis of no strong support for a merge (even the original proposer "would even suggest to not merge"). I feel it's better to tidy up the page rather than leave the banners in place for years due to lack of interest. If anyone does want to merge these articles, then please re-template and re-open the discussion. Pelagic (talk) 20:13, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

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title: Talk:OpenCola (drink)


text:
Talk:European Research Council

Old chat
I accessed the following pages on BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4697883.stm, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4277561.stm, however, I don't think they are suitable to be listed as references. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 10:43, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

ERC Launch
Story covered here,. Article needs major update. Grunners 12:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ERC logo.png
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February 2010
I have reverted a wholesale revision of the article, twice now, since the edits removed references and added original research (that is, in this case, the quality that made the thing read like an essay), as is clearly evidenced in statements such as the following: "The major problem for research in Europe is the fragmentation and disintegration of the whole knowledge space wich is to be organized as a single system of sciences, humanities and engineering thus providing the conceptual base for a single European Research Area." This kind of thing is not OK in Wikipedia, and the IP is urged not to keep reinserting this sort of information, in this and other articles: such changes are disruptive. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 22:29, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Protected
Due to the dispute, the article is fully protected for five days. Please use this time to get agreement on Talk about any changes that may be needed. If reverts continue after protection expires, without first making an effort to get consensus on Talk, blocks are possible. EdJohnston (talk) 15:18, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've now put the article under long-term semiprotection. An IP from the 83.168.* range keeps putting back a wildly different version of the article which includes some unsourced criticism of the ERC, for example: "The first results show that the shortcomings typical for the Framework Programmes for Research and Technological Development apply to the Ideas programme as well: staff maladministration, arbitrary decisions on eligibility and funding, low peer reviewing, the last comes from the hard scheme of Science and Engineering used by ERC, which is missing the converging and emerging sciences and technologies and setting up the panels of experts only with narrow expertise. Among the interdisciplinary research happened such completely unfitting projects as 'Reconstructing Ancient (Biblical) Israel' or 'Evolution of Development in Plants'. The first ERC advanced grants, mostly distributed among academics from national universities, showed a fateful fault of mixing educational institutions with research institutions, thus leaving aside progressive research companies and so original ideas and avant-garde research projects"The IP wants to offer this criticism in Wikipedia's voice, as though it were part of what everyone knows about the ERC. Wikipedia is not a soapbox, and such POV-pushing does not belong in our articles. EdJohnston (talk) 00:49, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Horizon2020
Unfortunately there is no information yet on the further development of the ERC under the Horizon2020 programme of the EU, which should be incorporated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.183.250.1 (talk) 09:48, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

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Grant articles discussion
For those following this page, there are two articles created on the grants. I have proposed either merger or redirecting them. Talk:ERC Starting Grant is the discussion link. Jerod Lycett (talk) 18:33, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:European Research Council


text:
Am I Wrong (disambiguation)

Am I Wrong may refer to:

Music

 * "Am I Wrong", a 1988 song by Witness
 * "Am I Wrong", a 1994 song by Keb' Mo' from Keb' Mo'
 * "Am I Wrong", a 1994 song by Love Spit Love from Love Spit Love
 * Am I Wrong?, a 1998 album by Gitane DeMone
 * "Am I Wrong", a 2000 song by Étienne de Crécy
 * "Am I Wrong", a 2003 song by Mull Historical Society from Us
 * "Am I Wrong", a 2013 song by Nico & Vinz.
 * "Am I Wrong", a 2013 song by the Cat Empire from Steal the Light
 * "Am I Wrong", a 2015 song by Anderson .Paak from Malibu
 * "Am I Wrong", a 2016 song by BTS from Wings

Other uses

 * Am I Wrong, a sister website of Am I Right

title: Am I Wrong (disambiguation)


text:
R512 road (Ireland)

The R512 road is a regional road in Ireland which runs from Limerick city to Fermoy, County Cork. At one time it was part of the main route between the cities of Limerick and Cork.

From Limerick city the R512 starts at the Kilmallock Roundabout, passes over the M7 motorway (there is no junction), and proceeds generally southwards through Bruff and Kilmallock to finally join the N72 road just outside Fermoy.

title: R512 road (Ireland)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zenslap

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Woohookitty 06:29, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Zenslap
Non-notable made-up nonsense. - Nat Krause 10:45, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per Nat Kraus -Harmil 10:55, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * BJAODN... if it was funnier. (Delete Neologism) —  F REAK OF N URxTURE  ( TALK )  11:05, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete neolog. Friday 17:19, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, neologism. —PrologFan {Talk} 20:08, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete neologism. JamesBurns 08:04, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Speedy Keep or Wiktionary says linguist. —Caramela
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zenslap


text: User talk:68.4.214.92

title: User talk:68.4.214.92


text:
Paint Your Target

"Paint Your Target" is a song by English post-hardcore band Fightstar. It was released on 13 June 2005 as the lead single from their debut studio album, Grand Unification (2006). It charted at number nine in the United Kingdom. To 'paint your target' is a military expression which refers to identifying and marking a target so that it can be attacked by other forces.

There are also two recorded versions of "Paint Your Target". One, recorded by Chris Sheldon, was released as a single and appeared on both of the music videos. The other, recorded by Colin Richardson, appears on Grand Unification.

Music video
There are two videos for this song: the first was banned by Emap TV who objected to scenes of violence in the video. The video, shot by the band's bassist Dan Haigh, features children playing cowboys and indians and pretending to shoot each other. Bullets were added digitally in post-production, making the pretend violence look real. A second video, also shot by Haigh, was released in its place, but the original was later posted online to the band's website and NME.

The second version depicts the band in a room playing the song. The room in the second version is similar to the one used in Feeder's "Find the Colour" video.

title: Paint Your Target


text:
My Name Is

"My Name Is" is a song by American rapper Eminem from his second album The Slim Shady LP (1999). It is also the opening song and lead single of the album. The song contains an interpolation (replayed sample) from British singer Labi Siffre's 1975 track "I Got The..." featuring the bass and guitar riff as originally played by British pop rock duo Chas & Dave. The song was ranked at #26 on "VH1's 100 Greatest Songs of the '90s". "My Name Is" was also ranked #6 on Q Magazine's "1001 Best Songs Ever". "My Name Is" peaked at number 36 on the Billboard Hot 100, becoming Eminem's first top 40 hit there. Outside the United States, "My Name Is" peaked within the top ten of the charts in Iceland, New Zealand, Norway, Ireland, and United Kingdom.

The song was placed at number 39 by Rolling Stone on their list of "100 Greatest Hip-Hop songs of all time" in April 2016. The recording garnered Eminem his first Grammy Award for Best Rap Solo Performance at the 42nd Grammy Awards in 2000.

Background
On the first day of recording, Eminem and Dr. Dre finished "My Name Is" in an hour.

The song contains an interpolation from Labi Siffre's track "I Got The..." from his 1975 album Remember My Song. Siffre, who is openly gay, said in a 2012 interview that he refused to approve the usage until sexist and homophobic lyrics were removed from the song: "Dissing the victims of bigotry – women as bitches, homosexuals as faggots – is lazy writing. Diss the bigots not their victims." The original uncensored version of the song with the aforementioned offending lyrics is mistakenly included on the compilation The Source Hip Hop Music Awards 1999. The bass and guitar riff used in the interpolation was originally performed by Siffre's session musicians Chas Hodges and Dave Peacock, who later became the duo Chas & Dave, although the song's liner notes state that the audio sample used by Eminem was actually an interpolation (re-recording). "My Name Is" is written in the key of F major. Famous names referenced in the song include Primus (clean version only), Nine Inch Nails, the Spice Girls, Pamela Anderson (Pamela Lee), and Kris Kross (album version only).

Music video
The video premiered on MTV Total Request Live on January 21, 1999. It was directed by Phillip Atwell, who would later direct music videos for several other Eminem songs, including "The Real Slim Shady", "Stan", "Lose Yourself", and "Just Lose It". The video starts out with a stereotypical redneck family watching television, who then come across a show starring "Marshall Mathers" (Eminem's real name). As the video goes on, Eminem parodies several TV shows and movies. He also imitates then-President of the United States Bill Clinton, Johnny Carson, Marilyn Manson, a porn star, and others. Basketball player Gheorghe Mureșan has a cameo appearance as a ventriloquist with Eminem being used as the dummy in the scene. Dr. Dre, the song's producer, also has a cameo as a therapist. It also features a Monica Lewinski lookalike, and Eminem imitating a chemistry teacher. Eminem is seen wearing a red tuxedo in some parts of the video, something that he would pay homage to in his 2020 single "Gnat", 21 years after "My Name Is" was originally released.

The video was ranked #71 in NME's 100 Greatest Music Videos. As of 2019, the music video has been replaced on all official sites (including the official Eminem YouTube account and MTV's holding accounts) with alternative lyrics online making it more advertiser friendly. Lines such as, "Well, since age 12, I felt like I'm someone else 'Cause I hung my original self from the top bunk with a belt," are replaced with "Since age 12 I felt like a caged elf Who stayed to himself in one space, chasing his tail," also with lines referencing ripping Pamela Lee's breasts off replaced with ripping her lips off and kissing them, saying how they feel soft like silicone.

Critical reception
AllMusic's Stephen Thomas Erlewine singled out the song as an album highlight, while Entertainment Weekly's David Browne wrote that this single and its accompanying video were both "attention-grabbing".

Track listing

 * UK CD1

 * UK CD2

 * UK Cassette

 * 12" single

 * Record Store Day 2020 7" single

 * Notes
 * $undefined$ signifies a co-producer.

Controversy
Eminem's mother Debbie Mathers filed a $10 million slander lawsuit against him for insinuating that she does drugs in the lyrics "99% of my life I was lied to, I just found out my mom does more dope than I do". Eminem also berates his mother in the third verse of the song, with the lyrics "When I was little I used to get so hungry I would throw fits/How you gonna breastfeed me, Mom?! You ain't got no tits!" Debbie stated in her 2008 book My Son Marshall, My Son Eminem, "This line was horrible and upsetting, because I'd contracted toxemia-blood poisoning when I gave birth to him and hadn't been able to breast-feed." The lawsuit was settled in 2001 for $25,000, of which Debbie received only $1,600, after Judge Mark Switalski ruled that $23,354.25 of the $25,000 settlement should go to Fred Gibson, Debbie's former attorney. Eminem would later reference this in his 2002 song "Without Me" with the lyrics, "I just settled all my lawsuits, fuck you Debbie!"

Eminem later felt disillusioned by its immense popularity. In 2002 he said "I didn't hate that song when I first made it. But the shit that I really, really like, that I put my heart and soul into, I don't get recognized for, like 'The Way I Am .' There's a difference between me being funny and me being real. I feel like I don't get recognized for my best shit — the shit that's my real, true feelings and emotions."

title: My Name Is


text:
Hangu, Neamț

Hangu is a commune in Neamț County, Western Moldavia, Romania. Situated in an area of the Lake Izvorul Muntelui also called "Little Switzerland," it is a mixture of modern and archaic culture. It is composed of five villages: Buhalnița, Chirițeni, Grozăvești, Hangu, and Ruginești.

Geography
Hangu is near Lake Izvorul Muntelui (also known as Bicaz Lake), an artificial lake used to generate hydroelectricity. The village is located in the valley of Hangu river and it surrounded by the peaks of Mount Stânișoara: Muntele Hangu westwards, Boboteni village and Muncelu Peak in the north, the Audia village, and the Malu Peak eastwards. In the south, the 15C road separates the village from the Bicaz Lake and over the lake, the Ceahlău Massif (a popular Romanian tourist site).

Demographics
The commune's main village, also called Hangu, has a population of about 1,500 inhabitants. It is situated on the national road 15C which stretches from Piatra Neamț to Târgu Mureș. The area of the commune is home to many ethnographic treasures which are preserved by local traditions or through the local cultural association which publishes a monthly magazine called Țara Hangului. The main activities are agriculture, forestry, tourism, and car service. It is a typical mountain village, with the main institutions (school, police, local administration, health service, etc.) and a high rate of unemployment (about 20% according to the latest survey of AJOFM (The Job Service) Neamț). As a result, many inhabitants work abroad in Italy, Spain, Greece, or Germany. Except the national road 15C, all the other internal roads are not suitable for cars with low wheelbase. A running water system is provided by funds from Special Accession Programme for Agriculture and Rural Development (SAPARD), however, further work still needs to be done on the village's infrastructure and environmental protection.

Natives

 * Victor Cădere (1891–1980), jurist, administrator, and diplomat
 * Dumitru Coroamă (1885–1956), major general

title: Hangu, Neamț


text:
Sleeper (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

"Sleeper" is the eighth episode of the seventh and final season of the television series Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The episode aired on November 19, 2002 on UPN.

Plot
Spike is seen digging a grave and burying a woman he has just killed while he hums a tune. Meanwhile, Buffy struggles with the possibility that Spike may have begun killing innocent people and "siring" them as vampires. Xander asks Anya to watch Spike without tipping him off. Anya sneaks into Spike's room and looks for proof that he is killing again, and when he wakes up she tries unsuccessfully to seduce him in an effort to hide what she was actually doing. After Spike leaves, she calls Buffy, who follows him and sees him hitting on a college girl before she loses sight of them. Meanwhile, Spike takes the girl into a dark alley where an apparition appearing as Buffy encourages him to feed, which he does before running away. When the real Buffy confronts Spike, he denies both killing the girl and siring Holden Webster.

Spike discovers a box of cigarettes in his pocket and remembers picking up a girl at the Bronze two days ago. He heads to the Bronze, where he tries to find out if anyone remembers seeing the girl. After killing a vampire who claims that Spike sired her, Spike calls Buffy and tells her that he is remembering the bad things he has done recently and asks for her help. She agrees to meet with him.

Spike leads Buffy into a dark basement and tries to show her what he remembers about killing the girls. While the real Spike tries to show Buffy where he buried the bodies, the fake Spike starts to sing "Early One Morning". This causes Spike to attack Buffy, cutting her arm with a piece of broken glass. As the two battle, the bodies of those Spike recently killed rise from the ground as newly turned vampires. Buffy struggles with the fledglings while the fake Spike tells the real Spike to drink her blood. As two vampires hold Buffy still, Spike tastes Buffy's blood from the cut on her arm. It reawakens of his memories of killing, and he falls to the ground, horrified.

Spike tearfully offers to be staked. When he begs an invisible someone to make him forget again since he did what he was told, Buffy realizes that something has been messing with his head. She takes Spike back to her house and tells the gang how she needs to keep him close to get answers.

Meanwhile, in London, a man and woman are attacked by cloaked men. Giles charges into a London house and finds the dead woman and the dazed man, Robson, who warns Giles that something has started and that they need to be gathered. As Giles listens, one of the robed figures appears behind him and swings an axe at his head as the episode ends.

Reception
In 2023, Rolling Stone, ranked this episode as #93 out of the 144 episodes in honor of 20th anniversary of the show ending.

title: Sleeper (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)


text:
Talk:Sleeper (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

Untitled
Please help complete the Angel/Buffy episode articles. See what needs to be done on this sub-page of WikiProject Buffy:

WikiProject Buffy/Episodes

Also please help update any major changes made to episode articles on that page so that progress can be mapped.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Buffy722.jpg
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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sleeper (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)


text:
Grave (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

"Grave" is the sixth-season finale of the television series Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The episode aired on May 21, 2002, on UPN. This episode is the second highest rated Buffy episode ever to air in the United Kingdom. Sky One aired the episode, which reached 1.22 million viewers on its original airing.

This is the only Buffy season finale not written and directed by Joss Whedon.

Plot
Dark Willow tries to resist Giles' attack, rebuffing his attempts to help her. He is forced to bind her physically and magically. He informs Buffy and Anya that he has been endowed with magic from a powerful coven in England, which sent him to combat Willow. Privately, Buffy tells Giles about the difficulties she has endured the past year: Xander left Anya at the altar leading to her becoming a vengeance demon again, she has been working at the Doublemeat Palace to support Dawn amid financial problems, and she has been sleeping with Spike. Giles bursts into laughter, but then apologizes to Buffy for leaving her when she needed help. She assures him he was right to do so: she had to face up to her responsibilities as an adult. She also confesses her insecurities to Giles on her reaction to being resurrected. As they talk, Willow subordinates Anya telepathically, so that Anya breaks Giles's binding spells. She throws down Buffy and resumes her magical duel with Giles.

Xander and Dawn continue to protect Jonathan and Andrew, Xander feeling overwhelmed by guilt over his failure to act when Warren shot Buffy and murdered Tara. As Willow begins to overpower Giles, she also directs a magical attack at Xander, Dawn, and the others, forcing Buffy to leave to protect them. Willow then defeats Giles and drains his magical strength; the power breaks down her emotional shields. Overwhelmed by her pain and all the pain she senses, she announces she will end it by ending the world. Buffy manages to partially block Willow's attack, but she and Dawn are thrown underground while Xander is knocked unconscious. Andrew and Jonathan flee, planning an escape to Mexico.

At the Magic Box, Anya comes to and finds a critically wounded Giles on the ground. He can feel Dark Willow's presence and knows that she will end the world. Buffy tries to climb out of the hole by pulling coffins out of the surrounding dirt walls to stack and try to escape on. After Xander comes to, Buffy sends him to find some rope to help them get out. When Buffy and Dawn quarrel over Buffy's protective behavior, Anya briefly appears, telling them that Willow is raising a satanic temple named Proserpexa of dark magic from underground, and intends to use its artifacts to end the world by draining its life energies. Anya also relays Giles' message that Willow cannot be stopped by any magical or supernatural powers. Overhearing this, Xander leaves to confront Willow. Willow speaks to Buffy telepathically, telling her she deserves the right to die as a warrior, and raises earth-creatures to battle her and Dawn.

As Willow begins her final ritual of destruction, Xander confronts her and physically tries to stop her from completing it. She repels him with magic force, but, wounded, he renews his efforts. He reminds Willow of their friendship and that he loves her no matter what. He tells her that if she destroys the world, she kills him as well and that he will stay with her until she does. Willow's emotional barriers collapse, her dark powers drain away, and her physical transformation is undone. She collapses in tears. Giles revives and tells Anya that the magic Willow stole from him overpowered her emotional shields and gave Xander the chance to reach her. Anya is shocked to learn that Xander saved the world. Buffy and Dawn reconcile as they clamber out of the pit and Buffy vows to be a better sister to Dawn.

In Africa, a severely bruised and bloodied Spike successfully completes his trials and demands his promised reward, his greatest desire. Accordingly, his soul is returned to him.

Cultural references
The website Women at Warp compares the "sidekick-turned-supervillain" situation with the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Nth Degree." "While Barclay's run as a supergenius in "The Nth Degree" is short lived and Willow's progression into a black magic wielding ultra-witch spans multiple episodes, their arcs are strikingly similar. Both Barclay and Willow (particularly in the first 4 seasons) are depicted as meek and shy, cast in their own minds as the 'sidekick' to their more powerful peers. When each is suddenly imbued with a terrifying amount of power, their friends fear how far they will go. Ultimately both must cope with returning to their former, less powerful states, but with the knowledge of the terror they inflicted on the people they cared about."

title: Grave (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)


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Talk:Grave (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

Glowly Demon Eyes
Did anyone else think that the glowy demon eyes of the demon that returns Spike his soul look anything like the glowy demon eyes of the demon with regenerative blood that turned Angel human/mortal in the Angel episode, "I Will Remember You" (Season 1)? Are the glowy eyes connected at all? Zekintha 04:26, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Buffy622.jpg
Image:Buffy622.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Grave (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)


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Bad Blood: A Walk Along the Irish Border

Bad Blood: A Walk Along the Irish Border was originally published by Irish novelist Colm Tóibín in 1987 with the title Walking Along the Border. The book includes photographs by Tony O'Shea, and describes the people and the landscape between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland - and the past that haunted them at the end of the 1980s.


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Buffy vs. Dracula

"Buffy vs. Dracula" is the season 5 premiere of the television series Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The episode aired on September 26, 2000 on The WB.

Buffy faces the infamous Count Dracula, who has come to Sunnydale to make her one of his brides. In the process, he turns Xander into a Renfield of sorts, and Giles becomes enthralled with the three sisters, much like Jonathan Harker in the novel. However, after a brief spell during which Buffy is mesmerized by the Count, she regains her usual composure and defeats him.

Plot
On a stormy day, two men deliver a large crate to a residence, but when they drop it, a clawed hand breaks through the wood and attacks one of the men.

Giles has Willow start scanning books into a computer so that they can be resources for the gang to use. He then tells her that he is going back to England, but to keep it a secret, as he feels like Buffy and the gang no longer need him.

While patrolling, Buffy is confronted by a vampire who condenses from mist: he introduces himself as none other than Count Dracula himself. Buffy is starstruck, but when she tries to stake the legendary vampire, he disappears. Xander and Willow arrive to see Dracula before he turns into a bat and flies away. The women discuss how amazing Dracula is, and Riley and Xander both express their jealousy towards the infamous Dark Prince. Willow attempts to attract attention to Giles and his usefulness, but the gang seems oblivious.

As Xander is walking home alone, he encounters Dracula. Using his mysterious charms, the vampire persuades Xander to be his aide and lure the Slayer to him. Riley asks Spike about Dracula, but Spike warns him that Dracula is too dangerous for him to take on alone. Buffy awakens to find Dracula in her bedroom, as Joyce had earlier invited him into their home. She is helpless against his powers and unable to stop him from biting her. When she wakes the next morning, she hides the puncture marks in her neck with a scarf.

Later, the gang discusses their plan of attack. Buffy seems distracted and after hearing about the truths of Dracula, she leaves abruptly. Riley follows her and forces her to take off the scarf to show the puncture marks on her neck. Everyone is shocked to see that she has been under the control of Dracula. Since Xander is under Dracula's power, he has a strange hunger for bugs and attempts to defend the powerful vampire to his friends. Xander volunteers to have Buffy stay safely at his place, Willow and Tara use magic to protect the Summers home, and Giles and Riley search Dracula, who according to Spike will live in a mansion or castle.

Xander locks Anya in the closet and takes the willing Slayer to his "Master" in hopes of getting immortality in return. After being left alone with Dracula, Buffy tries to take control and stake him, but he is easily able to make her put the stake down, telling her about the things he can do for her while she struggles to regain control of herself. As Giles and Riley arrive at the castle, Xander tries to stop them from going after Dracula, but Riley knocks him out with one punch, while Giles finds himself seduced by the Three Sisters. Dracula offers his blood to Buffy, and she hesitantly takes a drink. A flash of Slayer memories allows Buffy to break his control over her. Riley rescues a reluctant Giles from the vampire sisters, and they go to save Buffy. Buffy and Dracula fight, and finally Buffy stakes him. After they leave, Dracula comes back from the dust. Buffy stakes him again. Dracula attempts to re-form again, but Buffy says, "You think I don't watch your movies? You always come back. I'm standing right here!" He slips away in his mist-form.

Buffy tells Giles that she wants to learn about her duties, the history of slayers, and her future. She asks him to be her Watcher again, which he accepts with pleasure. Buffy comes home and announces to her mom that she is going out with Riley. As she enters her room, she finds a strange girl there going through her stuff. Joyce tells Buffy that she should take her sister with her if she goes out, much to both girls' chagrin.

Production
The vampire who was going to show Buffy a darker side of herself was originally envisioned as "just another vampire who rode a horse and was all cool," says writer Marti Noxon. "I kept saying, 'Like Dracula - until Joss Whedon said, "Why not Dracula? He's public domain."

Rudolf Martin, the actor who played Dracula had also played Vlad III Dracula, "the Impaler" (the real life inspiration for Bram Stoker's book Dracula and thus, the vampire Dracula) in the TV movie Dark Prince: The True Story of Dracula which aired on the USA Network a month after this episode aired. Near the end of the film, the story strays into fiction by having Vlad excommunicated by the Orthodox Church (this did not happen in real life) before getting assassinated by his brother Radu (how Vlad actually died is unknown). Due to Vlad's violent life as shown in the film and the excommunication, he is denied entry to both Heaven and Hell and rises from the grave as a vampire and is implied to be one and the same as Count Dracula. The movie therefore has an unintended sense of continuity with the episode as both cast the same actor to play the same character.

Noxon says the scene in which Dracula implies that Buffy would "make an amazing vampire" thematically resonates with the questions of identity with which Buffy struggles throughout Season 5.

When questioning Dracula's identity, Buffy mentions having encountered "pimply and overweight" vampires who named themselves after Anne Rice's vampire character Lestat de Lioncourt. This is the first indication that some vampires appreciate Rice's perspective on vampirism; in contrast, "School Hard" and "Darla" depicted some vampires as having contempt for Rice's concepts.

Themes
Myles McNutt notes the episode's emphases on, first, Buffy and secondly on Dracula. "The last two premieres have featured Buffy facing questions about her identity (in 'Anne' and 'The Freshman'), and her altercation with Dracula is built around similar questions; however, whereas it seemed as if Buffy was struggling to stay afloat amidst the world changing around her at the start of the third and fourth seasons, here she seems to be struggling within, gaining new perspectives on her power and its control over her actions and desires." Secondly, "Dracula himself wasn't funny in the least: while the show was having fun with Dracula's position within popular culture, Dracula wasn't laughing, and in some ways he wasn't even relevant to those stories..." It is "a really evocative use of the image of Dracula as King among his kind to offer a reflection on the Slayer and her position within humanity... I like the detail Spike raises, in that Dracula has in some ways been worse to vampires than he has to the humans he hunts and kills: his celebrity, his elevation above everyone else, made all other vampires more vulnerable, shifting the balance of their kind."

Broadcast and release
"Buffy vs. Dracula" was first broadcast on September 26, 2000 on The WB Television Network. During its original broadcast, the episode was watched by 5.8 million viewers and received a Nielsen rating share of 3.9/6. This means that 3.9 percent of all households with a television viewed the episode, while among those households watching TV during this time period, six percent of them were actively watching the program. This was lower than the season three premiere, but higher than the season one and two premieres.

It was released on DVD as part of the fifth season on December 9, 2003.

Critical response
Vox, ranking it at #74 of all 144 episodes on their "Worst to Best" list, writes, "This episode has a bit of a bad reputation for wasting Buffy's one encounter with the most famous vampire of all time. But it's a crackerjack, very funny hour about Buffy meeting the most famous vampire of all time and finding herself and her friends drawn into his web, even as she rolls her eyes at the whole thing. The episode is now perhaps better remembered for its final reveal — Buffy's brand new sister — but it's an enjoyably lighthearted kickoff to an ambitious season of TV."

Myles McNutt argues, "While it isn't a departure for the series to engage with comedy, the way it is deployed in the episode rather lazily fills in the gaps between the dramatic scenes, failing to integrate the two parts of the episode successfully and truly live up to its potential... Ultimately, I think the show was right to treat this subject matter with a light touch, especially considering how many depictions of Dracula there have been: the show has to put its own stamp on the character, and so much of the time is spent on the characters reacting to Dracula as opposed to on Dracula himself."

title: Buffy vs. Dracula


text: File:Walking Along the Border.jpg

title: File:Walking Along the Border.jpg


text: Template:Campaignbox Irish Rebellion of 1798


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List of Paranoia Agent episodes

Paranoia Agent is a 2004 Japanese anime television series created by director Satoshi Kon and produced by Madhouse about a social phenomenon in Musashino, Tokyo caused by a juvenile serial assailant named Shonen Bat (Lil' Slugger in the English dub). The series aired on Japan's Wowow from February to May 2004. The English dub aired on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim in the United States from May to August 2005.

Episode list
All episodes were written by Seishi Minakami, except episodes 5 and 10, which were handled by Tomomi Yoshino.

title: List of Paranoia Agent episodes


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Talk:Buffy vs. Dracula

Untitled
Please help complete the Angel/Buffy episode articles. See what needs to be done on this sub-page of WikiProject Buffy:

WikiProject Buffy/Episodes

Also please help update any major changes made to episode articles on that page so that progress can be mapped.

________________________________________________________

Dead Or Completely Dead?
The plot summary contradicts the expanded overview in whether or not Dracula is well or truely dead. Since I don't know which one is real (even though I saw the episode) I don't know which one to delete.

And yes, I read the post-series comic where Xander got captured again. But a lot of Buffy comics are most definitively not canon. Lots42 12:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

He isn't dead. The season 8 comics are def canon as Joss wrote them --Tregelen (talk) 06:39, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Buffy501.jpg
Image:Buffy501.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Anne Rice

 * ... "School Hard" and "Darla" depicted vampires as having only contempt for Rice's concepts.

"Lie to Me" might be a good example too. But I think "Darla" here is an error for "The Trial" (same season). —Tamfang (talk) 08:10, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Buffy vs. Dracula


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Cherukulamba

Cherukulamba is a village in Malappuram district of Kerala state, south India. It is 9 km from Malappuram town. It is surrounded by Chattipparamba and Padapparamba. two fast growing towns in Malappuram district. This town has somewhat big population when compared to other small towns surrounding it. This town is a Muslim-dominated towns which has as many as 6 Mosques, i.e. the place of worship for Muslims.

Major roads touching Cherukulamba include Kottakkal-Perithelmanna and Chattipparamba-Makkarapparamba.

Culture
Cherukulamba village is a predominantly Muslim populated area. Hindus are exist in comparatively smaller numbers. People gather in mosques for the evening prayer and continue to sit there after the prayers discussing social and cultural issues. Business and family issues are also sorted out during these evening meetings. The Hindu minority of this area keeps their rich traditions by celebrating various festivals in their temples. Hindu rituals are done here with a regular devotion like other parts of Kerala.

Transportation
Cherukulamba village connects to other parts of India through Kottakkal town. National highway No.66 passes through Tanur and the northern stretch connects to Goa and Mumbai. The southern stretch connects to Cochin and Trivandrum. State Highway No.28 starts from Nilambur and connects to Ooty, Mysore and Bangalore through Highways.12,29 and 181. National Highway No.966 connects to Palakkad and Coimbatore. The nearest airport is at Kozhikode. The nearest major railway station is at Tirur.

title: Cherukulamba


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Romanian Orthodox Archbishop of Alba Iulia

List of Orthodox Archbishops of Alba Iulia of the Metropolis of Transylvania, Romanian Patriarchate:

 * 1975-1990: Emilian Birdaș
 * 1990-2011: Andrei Andreicuț
 * din 2011: Irineu Pop

From 1921 to 1948, the Diocese of the Romanian Army was headquartered at Alba Iulia.


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Tony Halik

Tony Halik, born Mieczysław Antoni Sędzimir Halik (January 24, 1921 – May 23, 1998) was a Polish film operator, documentary film-maker, author of travel books, traveller, explorer, and polyglot (speaking Spanish, English, French, Portuguese, Italian, German, Guarani and Xavante).

Halik was born in Toruń, Poland.

During World War II, as a Polish citizen under German occupation he was forcibly drafted into the Kampfgeschwader 40, a Luftwaffe squadron, and served in France, where in 1944 he deserted and joined the French Resistance. For his actions, he was awarded the French Croix de guerre.

After the war, he married Pierrette Andrée Courtin in 1946 and in 1948 they settled down in Argentina. Soon afterwards he started working as a photojournalist, film operator, and correspondent for various Argentinian media. Since 1956 he worked as a correspondent for Life and NBC.

In 1974 Halik met Elżbieta Dzikowska, his later life partner. Around this date he moved back to Poland.

In 1976, along with Elżbieta Dzikowska and Prof. Edmundo Guillén, he reached the legendary Inca capital Vilcabamba.

For over twenty years, Halik and Dzikowska hosted over three hundred TV shows and series for Polish Television. He also created over four hundred documentary films, wrote thirteen books and many press articles.

He died in Warsaw, Poland.

title: Tony Halik


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Guanghai

Guanghai is a town in Taishan Prefecture in Guangdong, China.

title: Guanghai


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Talk:Megali Idea

POV
The article is a target for fanatic POVs. It is becoming anti-Greek propaganda. Phrases like "Greece did not manage to occupy Smyrna, Imbros, and Tenedos from Turkey" or "she also was not capable to occupy southern Albania" from user 213.100.205.98 are POVs, undocumented and horrible English language. --Spryom 10:57, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

The image in the top-right is not the Megali Idea. The true Megali idea would have included the Dodacanese/Rhodes/Megisti (currently Greek), southwestern Asia Minor, full control of Cyprus and the straits, and also northern Epirus, northern Macedonia, and Pontis. The image shown here is merely territory that the Treaty of Sevres declared to be "Greece".

NPOV
The whole article needs to be reworked. In my opinion there is only a weak link between recognition of borders with Albania and the Great Idea. In other words was the Great Idea the driving force behind belligerency and non-recognition of borders? Moreover, the whole term 'Great Idea' is associated in most historic accounts to the pre-World War I, Greek foreign policy. Is it justified to call every expansionist or revisionist attempt of Greek-Foreign Policy, irrespective of the ruling regime (republic-dictatorship) 'megaloideatic'? A propos Cyprus, it could be as well be called 'right-wing extremist policy'. Is there any special theory in international relations that provides that any maximalist tendency in Greek foreign-political objectives is to be characterised as 'megaloideatic'? To sum up, does hypothesizing about links between the Albanian borders and Megaloideatic beliefs, promote our understanding of modern greek foreign policy? I have contributed these questions in the discussion and would expect new entries and adaptations made in the article to reflect solid evidence or at least a sound argumentation on the issue, and not abstract or even corrupt clauses as it is now. Donnerstag 15:13, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, this article is terribly written and it is not yet NPOV. February 28 2007

Macedonia
Should the controversy on the name of Macedonia be mentioned?

Probably not, because more than 90% of Macedonia is wqithin Greece's borders. There is a separate page about the name controversey...

First Picture
The picture is wrong. The map is not the Megali Idea. The Megali Idea included nearly what once Byzantium posessed. The Map is about "Greece of two Continents and five Seas" a country which no more exists. User:panosfidis

 * Absolutely true. It must be possible to locate a better image. I've removed it for the time being since it is just misleading. Valentinian (talk) 12:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether or not this is public domain, but if you scoot on over to http://www.geocities.com/t_volunteer/greece/megali_idea.htm you will find a proper map of the Megli Idea. Ignore the text underneath it though, it's all racist propaganda!! Any wiki member should be able to upload it to this page, we hope.

 * Here's a map of Greater Greece and Greater Serbia. --Tēlex 13:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Your link doesn't lead to anything.....

 * This page seems to have an artist's impression of the concept: (ignore the rest of the page, and click the link called "Paint of Megale idea" (second paragraph, second line from the bottom). Regarding a "map" the second image on this page might be better  (ignore the rest of the page, it is propaganda as well). Valentinian (talk) 10:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's another take on it, although admittedly the phrase "Megali Idea" is not used...

http://enotitanpride.tripod.com/ellada/

18 August 2006

 * I double-checked the link, and it must be this picture Telex tried to link to. Valentinian (talk) 09:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed image

I've removed this image because it didn't appear to be of the Megali Idea. Rather, it just looked like the history of Greece's borders. Keep in mind that the goal was to encompass all ethnic Greeks. This would mean the Pontus, Cyprus, and part of Sicily would have to be on the map, right? — Khoikhoi 22:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I have uploaded one of the images discussed earlier on the talk page. It doesn't include all of the Pontos region, but it is the best I can think of. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 23:18, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks! — Khoikhoi 23:32, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

 * You can't really see that picture, can't we use something like this?--Tekleni 10:54, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I see your point, but the problem with that image is that Pontos is missing and North Epirus/South Albania isn't indicated very well. Secondly, I am a bit uneasy about the big Turkish lettering given the sensitivity of this topic (I have no idea about its contents, I speek neither Greek nor Turkish.) Khoikhoi, you have a point about Sicily (or even Magna Græcia), but I don't think it was that common to include them as well. But I think that we need to include Pontos somehow, since this region tried to secede during the 1920s mess. Perhaps, it would be better to draw a new image. The only problem with that solution is that any such drawing could turn into a never-ending edit war, so it would be really great (no pun intended) if we could find a good contemporary image - this probably means 1880s-1912. As I see it, the ideal picture would probably show Greece with the pre-1912 borders, and (shaded differently or whatever) Macedonia, Thrace (W and E), Epirus (including N Epirus), Crete, Rhodes and the other Aegean Islands, Cyprus, Constantinople/Istanbul, plus Western and North (eastern) Anatolia. But that is just my interpretation of the term. If somebody draws a map, it would naturally have to include the current frontiers of Greece as well. Cheers. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 11:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

 * So, we want a map explicitly including Magna Graecia and Northern Epirus. The only one I can think of is this one (I found it above, although as states, it does not specify that it is the Megali Idea). Additionally I think that one goes a bit too far.--Tekleni 11:37, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Sorry if my post was unclear. I think Magna Græcia is normally not included but that all of Epirus would probably be. I agree that the image you point to is pushing the definition too far. At times like these, I wish I knew how to read Greek ... Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 11:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think a map should include Souther Italy as there was never really any serious movement to incorporate Sicily and Southern Italy into Greece. These are almost no native Greeks in Sicily, and only a few tens of thousands in Calabria and Magna Grecia, and most of them are Catholic, not Orthodox.

There is the famous image which I think should be used, of Greece's 1922 borders, with Constantinople and Nicea, and with a picture of Venizelos. It is on the cover of Ionian Vision.

-Alexius Comenenus

 * Agree completely that we should exclude Southern Italy. You are right that the other image is more famous, sure, but AFAIK the image you're referring to shows both Nicea and Constantinople/Istanbul as part of a international zone, not as part of Greece (although the two red signatures are too close to each other that the artist probably thought this was a technicality.). I still hope it will be possible to find a good map dated before the Balkan Wars, since such a map would not have been influenced by later events (in 1912-13). It would also show more clearly the difference between the suggested Greek state and the state as it looked before the Balkan Wars. Such a map must exist somewhere. Btw, does anybody know who created the image used on the cover of "Ionian Vision" and what its copyright status is? Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 09:31, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

The Megali Idea would have classic Epirus, Alexander's Macedonia and Ancient Thrace as the northern most borders. This would be moving Modern Greece's border 0ver 60km towards the north and including European Turkey. In Asia Minor the eastern-most regions would include Bithynia, Phrygia, Pisidia, Lycaonia and Cilicia. Obviously Cyprus would be included, and also Pontus. Unsure if the region between Pontus and Bythinia would be included, but most likely. I have edited a Byzantine Empire image showing all this. Most of these regions had Greek minorities until the 1920s (and some regions even had majority Greek populations)--Maggas 09:18, 21 October 2006 (ACST)

Still stuck without an image
It looks like we're still stuck without an image. How about if we find an old ethnographical map of the Balkans and Anatolia (e.g. from Shephard's atlas), add the pre-1912 border of Greece and use an image description like "The Megali Idea was a politicial vision to include all regions of Greek settlement within the Greek state (shown in orange on this map. Compare with Greece's actual borders shown in blue)." Or something along those lines. This would get us out of problem about demarkating a border that never existed on the ground. I'm not sure how old the M.I. was in a political context, but the border shown on the map could also be Greece's first border from the 1830s. Would this sound acceptable? Valentinian T / C 11:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Influence on foreign policy?
"Respect for independence and territorial integrity of all neighbouring nations has been a cornerstone of the foreign policy of the Greek Republic. Respect for the territorial status quo was mentioned on a number of occasions by Greek authorities as a reason for Greece's refusal to participate in the 1999 NATO bombing of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia."

How is this related to Megali Idea? True, this entire article seems to have been edited to the point of being completely worthless, but this specific paragraph seems to be completely out of place.Zambetis 13:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

No references
Added the unreferenced template, since the only reference is to a deleted Wikipedia article.  DOONHAMER  |  BANTER  23:44, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Map?
Elsewhere(on wikipedia!) one finds this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ParisPeace-Venizelos-Map.png

Is this relevant to Megali Idea?

Opposition to the Megali Idea
The section titled "Opposition to the Megali Idea" has a misleading title. The fact that Greeks in Pontos wanted to create an independent state was a practical solution at the time and if the Greeks had been successful in Asia Minor in 1919-1922 bordering Pontos then the two Hellenic states would have achieved their own "Enosis" (union). So the Pontians were not opposed to the Megali Idea at all. That title needs to be renamed or has to be made into another section called "Former or current Hellenic states" along with Cyprus, but it cannot stay the way it is.--Waterfall999 12:30, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Map of the Megali Idea
The map needs to include all of modern day Greece and Cyprus, most of FYROM and Bulgaria and well as southern and coastal Albania, all of Thrace, most of modern Day Turkey excluding south-eastern and eastern Turkey, including Pontos, Cappadocia, Cilicia, Turkey's Hatay province (which includes Antioch), as well as coastal Romania, coastal Georgia, some of Crimea, and Alexandria. It would include Sebastea (Sivas) and Caesarea (Kayseri). So it would be easier to use a map of the Byzantine Empire and edit out Serbia and Bosnia. I'll see if i can make one.--Waterfall999 13:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Wrong name
Megali Idea is not an English name for the policy in question but a Greek one (despite the pointless "Greek translation" at the beginning of this article. This is the English wikipedia and the name in the article needs to be translated into English.  Deipnosophista (talk) 20:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Megali Idea is the term used, although the literal translation is indeed the "Great Idea", which is displayed at the top of the page. It was a Greek concept and therefore has a Greek name. Changing the name of the section would make as much sense as translating all foreign words used in English. No one would ever translate "Luftwaffe" as "Air Weapon" so why would we change "Megali Idea"? Mentalbasedoninstrumental (talk) 18:08, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, all historical/social scientific work in English uses the phrase 'Megali Idea'.

Edit Cyprus
I suggest severly editing down the Cyprus paragraph and re-phrasing it. Politis (talk) 17:02, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Cleaning + Expanding
I have tried to clean the article by "massive" POV-s, moreover I tried to put some order the sections, but I am not sure how this article should be structured....

Here is my proposal:

... etc
 * Fall of Byzantium/Constantinople
 * Greece under the Ottoman Rule
 * Greek War of Independence
 * Nationalism in politics in 19th century (during that time Nationalism was strong in Europe)
 * Cretan Revolt + First Greco-Turkish War 1897
 * Realization of Megali Idea
 * Eleftherios Venizelos
 * Balkan Wars
 * WWI
 * Decline of Megali Idea
 * Second Greco-Turkish War
 * Big Catastrophe (i.e. Destruction of Smyrna)
 * Exchange population
 * Interwar period

So... any opinions/comments, suggestion or even references? A.Cython (talk) 01:41, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I have placed sections according to the above plan + made requests for expanding some of the sections... I will try add staff whenever I can!A.Cython (talk) 22:53, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I concur with this plan to expand and clean up the article. Only, I would add Prince Constantine along with Venizelos, since it was under Constantin's leadership, not Venizelos', that the Balkan Wars were carried to success on the ground. --Nikoz78 (talk) 17:03, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

"Folk saying"
...is not folk saying! It is a song: Σημαίνει ο Θεός, σημαίνει η γης, σημαίνουν τα επουράνια, σημαίνει και η Αγιά Σοφιά, το Μέγα Μοναστήρι με τετρακόσια σήμαντρα κι εξηνταδυό καμπάνες, κάθε καμπάνα και παπάς, κάθε παπάς και διάκος. Ψάλλει ζερβά ο βασιλιάς, δεξιά ο Πατριάρχης κι απ' την πολλή την ψαλμουδιά, εσειόνταν οι κολώνες. Να μπούνε στο χερουβικό και να 'βγη ο βασιλέας, φωνή τους ήρθε εξ' ουρανού κι απ' Αρχαγγέλου στόμα. Πάψετε το χερουβικό κι ας χαμηλώσουν τ' άγια, παπάδες πάρτε τα Ιερά και 'σεις κεριά σβηστείτε, γιατί είναι θέλημα Θεού η Πόλη να τουρκέψη. Μον' στείλτε λόγο στη Φραγκιά, να 'ρθουνε τρία καράβια το 'να να πάρει το Σταυρό και τ' άλλο το Βαγγέλιο, το τρίτο το καλύτερο την ΄Αγια Τράπεζά μας μη μας την πάρουν τα σκυλιά, μη μας την μαγαρίσουν... H Δέσποινα ταράχθηκε κι εδάκρυσαν οι εικόνες... "Σώπασε κυρά Δέσποινα και μη πολυδακρύζεις πάλι με χρόνους, με καιρούς, πάλι δικιά Σου θα 'ναι!"

--Michael X the White (talk) 14:22, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

 * well... this is folk song and most Greeks remember only this quote. we could state that this folk saying is part from a folk song or something similar... A.Cython (talk) 17:35, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Albanian POV
Chauvinistic, as it mainly coveted lands inhabited by other Balkan peoples (Albanians, Bulgarians, Turks). Northern Epirus' Question is its main derivative. --Guildenrich 13:55, 6 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guildenrich (talk • contribs)

Map of Feraois'
Is there not an image of Rigas Feraios' Charta? 137.158.152.213 (talk) 13:20, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Catherine the Great's Plans For Constantinople
In the book Modern Greece: A Short History by the eminent Oxford scholar C.M. Woodhouse there is the following passage on page 120 about Catherine the Great of Russia' plans, formulated in 1782, for "[...]a restored Greek Empire with it's capitol at Constantinople, under her grandson Constantine, who was to be brought up as a Greek." It seems to me that a mention of her ambition to resurrect the Byzantine Empire is certainly in order. With her being the Empress of the Orthodox Russian Empire (Third Rome), and her hatred of the Muslim Ottoman Empire that had finally destroyed Byzantium with the conquest of Constantinople in 1453, her motives are clearly understood. She did not give up on this plan until 1792 (ten years). The reasons for it's failure could also be mentioned, such as the Austrian Empress not agreeing to the plan, resistance from the French and the fact that her officer Count Orlov (Alexey Grigoryevich Orlov) had already roused the Greeks some years prior to uprising (1770) and the failure of the Russians to supply adequate support (see Orlov Revolt), all contributing to the failure of Catherine's designs on Constantinople. Again, does anyone concur that this information should be added to this article? An aggressive conspiracy to resurrect the Byzantine Empire is certainly noteworthy. The Russian Empire never gave up on Constantinople; as late as World War I (1914-1918) the Russians were promised the ancient city upon allied victory against the Central Powers (something the civil war in Russia against the Bolsheviks prevented from happening). --Nikoz78 (talk) 21:09, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Golden Dawn
I don't see the purpose of the section 'Golden Dawn' in this article.I think it's totally irrelevant. Also,i think that Megali Idea is better translated as 'Idea of Greatness'.It's not as the Greeks had some Great or Big Idea (meaning brilliant) but the idea of the nation's great past. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.176.100.150 (talk) 12:01, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've got no opinion on the translation, but how is it irrelevant that a modern political party supports the idea? TDL (talk) 17:38, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If you've got no opinion on the translation why do you keep reverting it?
 * About Golden Dawn,i think that many things are said about this subject,but this is not something that has been.Could you provide an objective source and not a turkish one?Apart from this how do you consider this sentence: and "Yes, we are racist and nationalist and we are not hiding that." to be relevant?The concept discussed in this article has nothing to do with racism and Golden Dawn's political beliefs don't have a place here.
 * Racism and irredentism are completely different issues.Wanting to regain territories that you once controlled doesn't mean you hate the people currently occupying them.It means that you have an imperialistic view on the subject of territories your nation once possessed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.176.100.150 (talk) 18:38, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If you want to change something you need to provide a source. I get no reliable hits for "Idea of Greatness" and plenty for "Big Idea".  If you think this is a bad translation we need more than your opinion to change it.
 * As for the Golden Dawn, your strawman argument isn't helpful. Of course racism and irredentism are the not the same thing and I never claimed they were.  However, nationalism (the part of the sentence which you apparently have missed) is obviously a driving force of irredentism.  You completely removed the section without explanation, I simply restored it.  If you object to how the information is portrayed then you are welcome to attempt to fix it, but removing it isn't the solution.  Here is another source: .  Are you suggesting the quotes of Nikos Mihaloliakos are faked because the sources are Turkish?  If you think Hürriyet Daily News is not a reliable source than you should start a discussion at WP:RSN.  TDL (talk) 19:40, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

What i'm saying is that turkish sources are biased and probably the statement is fake,yes.I'm just asking for a neutral source.Not greek and not turkish.Of course i saw tha term 'nationalist' but i stick by what i said.No one denied that Golden Dawn is a nationalist party but its political beliefs seem rather irrelevant.We could keep the first sentence if we find a neutral source,i'm fine with that.As for the translation,trust me,it's wrong.The meaning is wrong,as i explained because the term is not referring to some big idea with tha literal sense of the phrase.Moreover,you cannot characterize 5 results as plenty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.176.100.150 (talk) 20:17, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Of course it's possible that both the Hürriyet Daily News and Today's Zaman have faked these quotes because they're Turkish. However, that's a rather serious allegation.  If you dispute the reliability of these sources then you should start a discussion at the reliable sources noticeboard.  There there are lots of people familiar with such matters who can be of assistance.  If these sources have a history of faking news then by all means we shouldn't use them.
 * With the translation, it's not a matter of whether you're right or wrong. It's a matter of verifibility: "Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it."  I don't care which translation we use, but it needs to be sourced.  TDL (talk) 23:58, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok,point taken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.176.100.150 (talk) 08:27, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Golden Dawn
I have been following the dispute here since it began, and the more I think about it, the more I am minded to agree with the removal of the material. First, the source used (Hurriyet Daily News) makes no mention of the Megali Idea. The Megali Idea specifically refers to the incorporation of territories inhabited by ethnic Greeks into Greece. Yet, in the territories mentioned here, there are hardly any Greeks left. There are precisely 0 Greeks left in Izmir, and only about 3,000 or so left in Istanbul. As such, what Michaloliakos is saying is nationalist demagoguery, but it is not a resurrection of the Megali Idea. If he called for the incorporation of Cyprus or Northern Epirus, territories where there are still substantial Greek populations, then we could talk about that being a resurrection of the Megali Idea. But here we are just dealing with demagoguery plain and simple. I wouldn't be opposed to inclusion of the material in the article on Golden Dawn, but I think it is beyond the scope of this particular article. Athenean (talk) 15:09, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Inverted colors
The colors in the map (File:Map of Greater Greece.png) seem to be inverted.VR talk 07:19, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:50, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
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title: Talk:Megali Idea


text:
Portal:Trains/Did you know/August 2005

August 2005

 * ...that Singapore's Mass Rapid Transit (MRT) was the first heavy rail system in the world to incorporate platform screen doors in its stations in 1987?

 * ...that like trolley poles and pantographs, bow collectors are a form of electric current collection from overhead wires?

 * ...that magnetic levitation train technology is being considered for possible future train routes in the Netherlands, especially between Amsterdam, Flevoland and Groningen?

 * ...that as a result of the Eschede train disaster in Germany on June 3, 1998, the ICE's rubber-isolated wheel design, which was found to be the primary fault of the accident, has since been replaced with conventional solid steel wheels?

 * ...that trains serving Zürich Main Station, the largest train station in Zürich, Switzerland, arrive and depart on 24 tracks arranged in three separate levels?

 * ...that Angels Flight, a landmark funicular railway in the Bunker Hill district of Downtown Los Angeles, California, claims to be the "shortest railway in the world"?

 * ...that a balloon loop is a track arrangement that allows a train to reverse direction, and return to where it came from, without having to shunt or even to stop?
 * ...that Great Britain's Great Central Railway is the only heritage railway in the country with a double track right of way?

 * ...that Steamtown National Historic Site in Scranton, Pennsylvania, has been criticized for using restored Canadian rather than American steam locomotives to power its tours and excursions?

 * ...that on Japan Railway's Narita Express, a train from Ōfuna or Yokohama (on the Tōkaidō Line) will be coupled with a train from Shinjuku, Ikebukuro or Omiya to form one trainset for the remainder of the journey to Narita International Airport?

 * ...that the EMD SD38-2 shares the same frame as the SD40-2 and SD45-2, which gives the SD38-2 a length of 68 ft 10 in (20.98 m)?

 * ...that in contrast to regular low floor trams, the floor in the interior of Ultra Low Floor tram is low enough to be at the same height as a sidewalk (about 18 cm above the road surface), which makes access to trams particularly easy for passengers in wheelchairs or with perambulators?

 * ...that most bogies (also called trucks) have two axles, but some cars designed for extremely heavy loads have been built with up to five-axle bogies?

 * ...that Ward Kimball's former Grizzly Flats Railroad 2-6-0 Emma Nevada and the only remaining operable GE U25B in North America are both on display at the Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris, California?
 * ...that EWS (English, Welsh and Scottish Railway), the largest British rail freight operating company, was originally created as a subsidiary of Wisconsin Central Ltd in 1996, and was acquired by Canadian National Railway when it bought Wisconsin Central in 2001?

 * ...that railway post office cars in North America were often equipped with a hook that could be used to snatch a sack of outgoing mail hanging on a track-side pole as the train passed it?

 * ...that since a conventional steam locomotive is directly driven, one of the few ways to 'gear' a locomotive for a particular performance goal is to size the driving wheels appropriately; typically larger for passenger train service than for freight service?

 * ...that some reports suggest Joseph Locke (1805-1860), who had apprenticed with George Stephenson, was driving Stephenson's Rocket when Liverpool MP William Huskisson became the first rail fatality on September 15, 1830?

 * ...that The first SD7 built by EMD, Southern Pacific Railroad number 1518, is preserved in operational condition at the Illinois Railway Museum?

 * ...that rail freight services in Japan are provided by the Japan Freight Railway Company which operates under trackage rights on Japanese National Railways?
 * ...that the Turbo train, built by United Aircraft and operated by Canadian National Railway between Toronto and Montreal, was powered by a jet turbine?
 * ...that in addition to designing many locomotive styles for the Pennsylvania Railroad, including the GG1, Raymond Loewy (1893-1986) also designed refrigerators for Sears-Roebuck, Mobil Oil's Pegasus logo, the Studebaker Avanti and the interior design of Skylab?

 * ...that about 100,000 Asian and 16,000 Allied prisoners of war died in the construction of the Death Railway connecting Bangkok and Rangoon, a route that includes the famous bridge over Kwae Yai river?

 * ...that nearly 5,000 PCC streetcars were built for rail transit systems in the United States and CKD Vagonka built nearly 13,000 for the European market?

 * ...that every piece of rolling stock in interchange service and every container carried on railroads in North America is labeled with reporting marks that uniquely identify the equipment's owner?
 * ...that on the westbound run of the Santa Fe de Luxe passenger train, female passengers received a basket of California oranges while the male passengers received pigskin wallets when the train reached the summit of Cajon Pass?
 * ...that most of the deceased from the Hammond Circus Train Wreck, many of whom could not be identified, are buried in a section of Woodlawn Cemetery in Forest Park, Illinois (a suburb of Chicago), called Showmen's Rest?
 * ...that Union Pacific's competition to Santa Fe's Super Chief, the City of Los Angeles passenger train, used one of only two model EMD E2 diesel locomotives ever built?
 * ...that Nigel Gresley (1876–1941) designed some of the most famous steam locomotives in Britain including the LNER Class A4 4-6-2 type?

 * ...that one of RER ' s routes, the Paris-St Germain-en-Laye line, uses the right of way of the first railway built in France?

 * ...that the first 2-6-0 steam locomotive in the United States with a single-axle swivelling leading truck was built in 1860 for the Louisville and Nashville Railroad?

title: Portal:Trains/Did you know/August 2005


text:
Hemish Shah

Hemish Shah (7 April 1968 – 5 September 2001) was an English stockbroker before he became a professional poker player, and the winner of Late Night Poker series 4, where he beat the season 2 champion Simon "Aces" Trumper in the final heads-up confrontation.

During the tapings of Late Night Poker series 5 (won by Padraig Parkinson) players would look up and say "Thanks, Hemish" when they hit a lucky draw. The final for the season was the same day as Hemish's funeral and the players all insisted on attending it. (The production company flew them to London by helicopter.) In all, over 75 poker players attended his funeral.

WSOP
He won a World Series of Poker bracelet and $312,340 in 2001 for winning the $5,000 Limit Texas Hold-em event. During the event he had to leave the table as he was suffering from stomach cramps. He went to hospital upon returning to England, but suffered a cardiac arrest at 03:00 GMT on 5 September 2001 and died, aged just 33. He was in good health (he didn't smoke, drink alcohol or eat meat) and his death shocked the poker world.

title: Hemish Shah