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Boris Kurakin

Prince Boris Ivanovich Kurakin (Князь Борис Иванович Куракин; 30 July 1676, Moscow – 28 October 1727, Paris) was the third permanent Russian ambassador abroad, succeeding Andrey Matveyev in The Hague and one of the closest associates of Peter the Great. He was also the tsar's brother-in-law, being married to Xenia, daughter of Feodor Abramovich Lopukhin and sister of Eudoxia Lopukhina.

Career
Boris was born on 30 July 1676 to the House of Kurakin, one of the greatest Gedyminid families of Muscovy, whose members were promoted straight to the rank of okolnichy, skipping lower ranks like the stolnik. Due to the upheavals during the rule of Tsar Feodor III, he was appointed as part of the retinue of Tsar Peter the Great. The connections he made while in Muscovite court life led him to marry the sister of Eudoxia (Peter's first wife). In 1697, he participated in the Azov campaigns and then sent to Italy to learn navigation.

His long and honourable diplomatic career began in 1707, when he was sent to Rome to induce the pope not to recognize Charles XII's candidate, Stanislaus Leszczynski, as king of Poland. In 1709, Boris Kurakin was appointed commander of the Semenovsky Regiment during the Battle of Poltava. From 1708 to 1712, he represented Russia at London, Hanover, and the Hague successively, and, in 1713, was the principal Russian plenipotentiary at the peace congress of Utrecht. From 1716 to 1722, he held the post of ambassador at Paris, and when, in 1722, Peter set forth on his Persian campaign, Kurakin was appointed the supervisor of all the Russian ambassadors accredited to the various European courts. In 1723, he attempted to arrange the marriage of Elizaveta Petrovna to Louis XV. He died on 28 October 1727.

Assessment
"The father of Russian diplomacy", as Kurakin has justly been called, was remarkable throughout his career for infinite tact and insight, and a wonderfully correct appreciation of men and events. He was most useful to Russia, perhaps, when the Great Northern War was drawing to a close. Notably, he prevented Great Britain from declaring war against Peter's close ally, Denmark, at the crisis of the struggle. As Duc de Saint-Simon put it, "c'etait un grand homme, bien fait, qui sentait fort la grandeur de son origine, avec beaucoup d'esprit, de tour et d'instruction".

Kurakin was one of the best-educated Russians of his day, and his autobiography, carried down to 1709, is an historical document of the first importance. He intended to write a history of his own times with Peter the Great as the central figure, but got no further than the summary, entitled History of Tsar Peter Aleksievich and the People Nearest to Him (1682-1694). His vast archive was published in the 19th century, revealing Kurakin as a master of literary style. He is held responsible for introducing many new words to the Russian language.

Family
Kurakin's descendants were also noted for their diplomatic careers. His son Alexander (1697–1749) was likewise ambassador to Paris, whereas the latter's grandson Alexander Kurakin (1752–1818) served as ambassador to Paris and Vienna under Alexander I and Vice-Chancellor of the Russian Empire in 1796.

title: Boris Kurakin


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User:W B Hicks

Hello, I'm W. B. Hicks. I created my account today (July 17 2005). As I write article contributions, I'll list them here.

Update, May 15 2017: I may want to raise a question about the description on a specific photograph in Wikimedia Commons. Looking into the procedure for doing so ...

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:W B Hicks


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Flying (Beatles instrumental)

"Flying" is an instrumental recorded by the English rock band The Beatles which first appeared on the 1967 Magical Mystery Tour release (two EP discs in the United Kingdom, an LP in the United States). It is one of the few songs credited to all four members of the band: John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr.

Origins
The first instrumental written by The Beatles since "12-Bar Original" in 1965, this was also the first song to be credited as being written by all four members of the band with the writing credits of "Harrison/Lennon–McCartney/Starkey". Like "12-Bar Original", it was based on the classic twelve-bar blues chord progression. The other two Beatles instrumentals are "Cayenne" and "Cry for a Shadow", recorded in 1960 and 1961 respectively.

"Flying" was recorded on 8 September 1967 with mellotron, guitar, bass, maracas, drums and tape loop overdubs on 28 September under its original title of "Aerial Tour Instrumental". The end of the recording originally included a fast-paced traditional New Orleans jazz-influenced coda, but this was removed and replaced with an ending featuring tape loops created by John Lennon and Ringo Starr during the 28 September session. The loops extended the song to 9 minutes 38 seconds, but the track was cut down to only 2 minutes 17 seconds. Part of the loops were used alongside an element of the ending jazz sequence to make "The Bus", an incidental piece used at various points in the TV movie.

Recording
On the track, as recorded and officially released, Lennon plays the main theme on mellotron, accompanied by McCartney and Harrison (both on guitars, plus a later McCartney bass overdub) and Starr (on maracas and drums). All four Beatles sing the melody without lyrics of any kind, and the track fades in an assortment of tape effects created by Lennon and Starr. This released version is identical to that heard on the soundtrack of the Magical Mystery Tour film; the music is accompanied in the film by colour-altered images of landscape in Iceland taken from an aeroplane, as well as some unused footage from the 1964 Stanley Kubrick film Dr. Strangelove.

A different version can be found on some Beatles bootleg albums (such as Back-track 1), and features added Hammond organ and strange whistling noises in the early parts of the track. The jazz-influenced ending is also present on this version, which is slightly shorter, clocking in at around 2:08. This coda, which Mark Lewisohn speculated was "seemingly copied straight from an unidentifiable modern jazz record", was in fact played on a mellotron. (In addition to the familiar samples of instruments playing single notes, mellotrons had entire banks of a pop orchestra playing popular styles of music, with optional accompaniment. The piece here was played with the Dixieland Rhythm Mellotron setting. )

Reception
Richard Goldstein of The New York Times believed that the track, "as instrumental interlude, is more interesting, if only because it is more modest [than the rest of the album]". Robert Christgau said that the track was "just a cut above Paul Mauriat, not bad but not Our Boys". Rex Reed, in a highly unfavourable review of the album for Stereo Review, said that it "sounds like the soundtrack of an old Maria Montez jungle movie at just about the point where she feeds the chanting populace to the cobras".

Personnel

 * John Lennon – wordless vocals, Mellotron, Hammond organ, sound effects
 * Paul McCartney – wordless vocals, bass, guitar
 * George Harrison – wordless vocals, guitar
 * Ringo Starr – wordless vocals, drums, maracas, sound effects

title: Flying (Beatles instrumental)


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Alpengeist

Alpengeist is an inverted roller coaster located at Busch Gardens Williamsburg in Williamsburg, Virginia. Manufactured by Bolliger & Mabillard, Alpengeist has an Alpine mountain region theme and opened in 1997 as the tallest inverted coaster in the world. The name "Alpengeist" is German for "Ghost of the Alps" or "Alpine Spirit", and the ride is themed to a runaway ski lift. It has the records for the tallest complete circuit inverted coaster in the world, tallest inverted roller coaster in the United States, and the longest complete circuit coaster drop in the world.

History
On August 30, 1996, Busch Gardens Williamsburg announced the addition of Alpengeist for the 1997 season. It would break the record for height and speed among inverted roller coasters, and it would feature the tallest vertical loop on an inverted coaster. The ride would be the park's second new roller coaster in two years after Wild Maus. It would be built in the deepest ravine, with much of it hidden by trees. Park experts had worked on state-of-the-art devices to keep the noise lower, including switching from nylon wheels to quieter polyurethane wheels and pointing the major drop away from residential neighborhoods in Kingsmill.

Construction of Alpengeist began two months before the announcement in June 1996. The coaster would be made out of 106 track pieces, with seven for the lift hill, ten for the station and 89 for the rest of the layout.

Alpengeist officially opened on March 22, 1997. It held the record for tallest inverted coaster until the opening of Cedar Point's Wicked Twister in 2002. However, Alpengeist remained the world's tallest among complete-circuit inverted coasters. In 2021, it was surpassed again by Legendary Twin Dragon, an inverted shuttle coaster in China. Wicked Twister closed at the end of the 2021 season making Alpengeist the tallest inverted coaster in North America. Additionally, Alpengeist would hold the record for being the fastest inverted coaster until Volcano: The Blast Coaster at the nearby Kings Dominion surpassed it in 1998.

In 2022, Alpengeist was repainted with light blue supports.

Characteristics
The ride contains three trains, although only two are in use at any time. Three mechanics maintain the ride and spend four months each year completely reconstructing each of the trains. The trains each contain eight cars, each with a single row seating four riders, for a total of 32 riders per train. The trains feature a zero car at the front of the train which contains 680. kg of weight which allows the trains to complete larger elements. The trains also feature skis on the side of each seat support beam which adds to the theming of the ride. The trains' wheel protectors are also painted to resemble ski helmets, each having a unique design, and further adding to the theming.

Ride experience
Upon exiting the station, the floor drops beneath the riders' feet and the train climbs the 167 ft tall chain lift after hearing the send-off recording "Thank you and enjoy your avalanche of adventure on Alpengeist!" The top of the lift reaches 195 ft above the river below. The track turns right while dropping down a 170. ft spiral drop, going past The Land of The Dragons, with the train hitting 67 mph. Following the drop, the train passes through a 120 ft Immelmann loop, followed by a 106 ft vertical loop. The track then races through a wooden tunnel before passing through a cobra roll over the Rhine River, adjacent to the Loch Ness Monster. Out of the cobra roll, the track crosses over the entrance to the cobra roll, passes by Griffon, then rises into the midcourse brake run. After the midcourse brakes, the track crosses over the exit from the Immelmann loop and then into another tunnel and down a drop before entering a zero-g roll, alongside the Le Scoot log flume. After a short section of straight track close to ground level, the track goes through a corkscrew followed by a clockwise upward helix, before making a left turn to the final brake run.

title: Alpengeist


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Blue Jay Way

"Blue Jay Way" is a song by the English rock band the Beatles. Written by George Harrison, it was released in 1967 on the group's Magical Mystery Tour EP and album. The song was named after a street in the Hollywood Hills of Los Angeles where Harrison stayed in August 1967, shortly before visiting the Haight-Ashbury district of San Francisco. The lyrics document Harrison's wait for music publicist Derek Taylor to find his way to Blue Jay Way through the fog-ridden hills, while Harrison struggled to stay awake after the flight from London to Los Angeles.

As with several of Harrison's compositions from this period, "Blue Jay Way" incorporates aspects of Indian classical music, even though the Beatles used only Western instrumentation on the track, including a drone-like Hammond organ part played by Harrison. Created during the group's psychedelic period, the track makes extensive use of studio techniques such as flanging, Leslie rotary effect, and reversed tape sounds. The song appeared in the Beatles' 1967 television film Magical Mystery Tour, in a sequence that visually re-creates the sense of haziness and dislocation evident on the recording.

While some reviewers have dismissed the song as monotonous, several others have admired its yearning quality and dark musical mood. The website Consequence of Sound describes "Blue Jay Way" as "a haunted house of a hit, adding an ethereal, creepy mythos to the City of Angels". Artists who have covered the song include Bud Shank, Colin Newman, Tracy Bonham and Siouxsie and the Banshees.

Background and inspiration

George Harrison wrote "Blue Jay Way" after arriving in Los Angeles on 1 August 1967 with his wife Pattie Boyd and Beatles aides Neil Aspinall and Alex Mardas. The purpose of the trip was to spend a week with Derek Taylor, the Beatles' former press officer and eventual publicist for California-based acts such as the Byrds and the Beach Boys. The visit also allowed Harrison to reunite with his sitar tutor, Ravi Shankar, whose Kinnara School of Music and upcoming concert at the Hollywood Bowl he helped publicise.

The title of the song came from a street named Blue Jay Way, one of the "bird streets" high in the Hollywood Hills West area overlooking the Sunset Strip, where Harrison had rented a house at 1567 Blue Jay Way for his stay. Jet-lagged after the flight from London, he began writing the composition on a Hammond organ as he and Boyd waited for Taylor and the latter's wife, Joan, to join them. The home's location, on a hillside of narrow, winding roads, together with the foggy conditions that night, created the backdrop for the song's opening lines: "There's a fog upon LA / And my friends have lost their way." Harrison had almost completed the song by the time the Taylors arrived, around two hours later than planned.

The week with Taylor proved to be important for the direction of the Beatles. At the height of the Summer of Love and the popularity of the band's Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album, Harrison, Taylor and their small entourage visited the international "hippie capital" of Haight-Ashbury, in San Francisco, on 7 August. Harrison had expected to encounter an enlightened community engaged in artistic pursuits and working to create a viable alternative lifestyle; instead, he was disappointed that Haight-Ashbury appeared to be populated by drug addicts, dropouts and "hypocrites". Following his return to England two days later, Harrison completed work on "Blue Jay Way" at his home in Esher, and he shared his disillusionment about Haight-Ashbury with John Lennon. The Beatles then publicly denounced the popular hallucinogen LSD (or "acid") and other drugs in favour of Transcendental Meditation under Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, whose seminar in Bangor in Wales the band attended in late August. While noting Harrison's role in "inspir[ing] the West's mainstream acquaintance with Hindu religion" through his leadership in this aspect of the Beatles' career, author Ian MacDonald describes "Blue Jay Way" as a "farewell to psychedelia", just as "It's All Too Much", which the Beatles recorded in May 1967, became Harrison's "farewell to acid".

Music
"Blue Jay Way" was one of several songs that Harrison composed on a keyboard over 1966–68 – a period when, aside from in his work with the Beatles, he had abandoned his first instrument, the guitar, to master the sitar, partly under Shankar's tutelage. The song is in 4/4 time throughout; its structure consists of an intro, three combinations of verse and chorus, followed by repeated choruses. While MacDonald gives the musical key as "C major (minor, diminished)", musicologist Alan Pollack views it as a mix of C major and C modal, and comments on the "highly unusual" incorporation of the notes D♯ and F♯. The inclusion of the latter note suggests the Lydian mode, which, according to musicologist Walter Everett, had only been heard previously in popular music in the Left Banke's 1966 single "Pretty Ballerina".

The song's melody oscillates over the chords of C major and C diminished, a chord favoured by Harrison in his Indian music-inspired compositions for the Beatles. Acknowledging Harrison's statement that the tune is "slightly Indian", Everett considers "Blue Jay Way" to be related to Kosalam and Multani – ragas from, respectively, the Carnatic and Hindustani traditions of Indian classical music. Alternatively, ethnomusicologist David Reck says the melody uses the scale from the Carnatic raga Ranjani, while according to author Simon Leng, Harrison based the song partly on the Hindustani Raga Marwa. Following the inclusion of a raga-style introduction (or alap) in his previous Indian compositions, "Love You To" and "Within You Without You", "Blue Jay Way" begins with a preview of the song's melody played softly, in free time, over the opening drone. Author Ian Inglis credits the song's incorporation of ambient drone, specifically its role in providing "an anchorage point for vocal and instrumental improvisation", as one of the first examples of a musical device that soon became prevalent in the work of Fairport Convention, the Incredible String Band and other folk artists.

The length of the verses falls short of an even eight bars through the omission of a final beat. Pollack recognises this detail as reflecting a sense of impatience, in keeping with the circumstances surrounding the song's creation. Following the third verse–chorus combination, the outro comprises four rounds of the chorus, with the lyrics to the final round consisting of the repeated "Don't be long" refrain. As a feature that Pollack terms "compositionally impressive", each of the four sections in this outro varies in structure by being either shorter in length or less musically detailed.

Lyrics
The lyrics to "Blue Jay Way" relate entirely to Harrison's situation on that first night in Los Angeles. He refers to fighting off sleep and recalls his advice to Taylor to ask a policeman for directions to Blue Jay Way. Author Jonathan Gould views the song as "darkly funny", with the singer's concern over his friends' tardiness almost resembling "a metaphysical crisis". In the choruses, Harrison repeatedly urges "Please don't be long / Please don't you be very long", a refrain that Inglis identifies as central to the composition's "extraordinary sense of yearning and melancholy".

Taylor later expressed amusement at how some commentators interpreted "don't be long" as meaning "don't belong" – a message to Western youth to opt out of society – and at how the line "And my friends have lost their way" supposedly conveyed the idea that "a whole generation had lost direction". With regard to whether Harrison was telling contemporary listeners not to "belong", Inglis writes, this "alternative reading" of the song aligned with Timothy Leary's catchphrase for the 1960s American psychedelic experience, "Turn on, tune in, drop out". In Gould's opinion, the continual repetition of the line at the end of "Blue Jay Way" transforms the words into "a plea for nonattachment – 'don't belong. Rather than attaching any countercultural significance to this, however, Gould views it as the Beatles repeating the wordplay first used in the chorus of Lennon's 1963 song "It Won't Be Long".

Recording
The Beatles began recording "Blue Jay Way" on 6 September 1967 at EMI Studios (now Abbey Road Studios) in London. The song was Harrison's contribution to the television film Magical Mystery Tour, the first project undertaken by the band following the death of their manager, Brian Epstein. Author Nicholas Schaffner describes "Blue Jay Way" as the first Harrison-written Beatles recording on which he "adapt[ed] some of his Indian-derived ideas to a more Western setting" through the choice of musical instruments. In the song's arrangement, Hammond organ re-creates the drone of a tambura, while a cello acts as an Indian sarod.

The group achieved a satisfactory rhythm track in a single take. On 7 September, this recording – comprising two organ parts, bass guitar and drums – was reduced to two tracks on the 4-track master tape, after which Harrison overdubbed his double-tracked lead vocal, and he, Lennon and Paul McCartney added backing vocals. Among Beatles biographers, MacDonald credits Harrison as the sole organ player on the song, while Kenneth Womack and John Winn write that Lennon played the second keyboard part. Recording was completed at Abbey Road on 6 October, with the addition of tambourine, played by Ringo Starr, and cello. The latter was performed by an unnamed session musician. As with all the songs recorded for Magical Mystery Tour, final mixing was carried out on 7 November.

Studio effects
"Blue Jay Way" features extensive use of three studio techniques employed by the Beatles over 1966–67: flanging, an audio delay effect; sound-signal rotation via a Leslie speaker; and (in the stereo mix only) reversed tapes. Beatles historian Mark Lewisohn compares "Blue Jay Way" with two Lennon tracks from this period, "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "I Am the Walrus", in that the recording "seized upon all the studio trickery and technical advancements of 1966 and 1967 and captured them in one song". Together with the pedal drone supplied by the keyboard parts, the various sound treatments reinforce the sense of dislocation evident in the song.

In the case of the reversed-tape technique, a recording of the completed track was played backwards and faded in at key points during the performance. This effect created a response to Harrison's lead vocal over the verses, as the backing vocals appear to answer each line he sings. Due to the limits of multitracking, the process of feeding in reversed sounds was carried out live during the final mixing session. Described by Lewisohn as "quite problematical", the process was not repeated when the Beatles and their production team worked on the mono mix.

Appearance in Magical Mystery Tour film
The song's segment in Magical Mystery Tour was shot mainly at RAF West Malling, an air force base near Maidstone in Kent, during the week beginning on 19 September. Described by Womack as "the movie's hazy, psychedelic sequence", it features Harrison sitting on a pavement and playing a chalk-drawn keyboard. Dressed in a red suit, he is shown busking on a roadside; next to his keyboard are a white plastic cup and a message written in chalk, reading: "2 wives and kid to support". The depiction of Harrison, seated cross-legged, matched his public image as the most committed of the Beatles to Transcendental Meditation and Eastern philosophy.

The filming took place in an aircraft hangar, with the scene designed to re-create a typically smog-ridden Los Angeles. Music journalist Kit O'Toole writes that the smoke surrounding Harrison "almost engulf[s] him, mimicking the 'fog' described in the lyrics". Through the use of prismatic photography, the "Blue Jay Way" segment also shows Harrison's "image refracted as if seen through a fly's eye", according to author Alan Clayson, who describes the scene as mirroring "the requisite misty atmosphere" suggested by the recording. In its preview of Magical Mystery Tour in 1967, the NME highlighted the segment as one of the film's "extremely clever" musical sequences, saying: "For 'Blue Jay Way' George is seen sitting cross-legged in a sweating mist which materialises into a variety of shapes and patterns. It's a pity that most TV viewers will be able to see it only in black and white."

At other times during the sequence, the four Beatles alternate in the role of a solo cellist. These scenes were filmed on 3 November, on the back rockery at Sunny Heights, Starr's house in Weybridge, Surrey. Tony Barrow, the band's press officer, recalled that as "a colourful conclusion" to the segment, they set off fireworks that had been bought for the upcoming Guy Fawkes Night celebrations. The version of "Blue Jay Way" appearing in the 2012 DVD release of Magical Mystery Tour is an alternative edit and includes some previously unused footage. O'Toole admires the "Blue Jay Way" sequence as "one of the film's too-few bright spots" and "a perfect representation of the track's hallucinatory qualities".

Release and reception
"Blue Jay Way" was issued in Britain as the final song on the Magical Mystery Tour double EP on 8 December 1967. In America, where Capitol Records combined the six EP tracks with five songs issued on the band's singles throughout the year, creating a full album, the release took place on 27 November. Reck comments that despite the Beatles' association with the Maharishi and Eastern culture, only two of the six new songs – "Blue Jay Way" and "I Am the Walrus" – directly reflected this interest.

Reviewing the EP for the NME, Nick Logan considered it to be "Sergeant Pepper and beyond, heading for marvellous places", during which "we cruise down 'Blue Jay Way' with [Harrison] almost chanting the chorus line. A church organ starts this one off and leads us into a whirlpool of sound ..." Bob Dawbarn of Melody Maker lauded the record as "six tracks which no other pop group in the world could begin to approach for originality combined with the popular touch". He said "Blue Jay Way" had the "requisite Eastern overtones" and was a "sinister little tune", which made it the hardest track to appreciate immediately.

Among reviews of the US release, Mike Jahn of Saturday Review admired the album as a "description of the Beatles' acquired Hindu philosophy and its subsequent application to everyday life", while Hit Parader praised the band for further "widening the gap between them and 80 scillion other groups". The reviewer added, with reference to the concurrently issued Their Satanic Majesties Request by the Rolling Stones: "The master magicians practice their alchemy on Harrison's 'Blue Jay Way', recorded perhaps in an Egyptian tomb, and 'I Am The Walrus', a piece of terror lurking in foggy midnight moors. These two songs accomplish what the Stones attempted."

Richard Goldstein of The New York Times rued that, more so than Sgt. Pepper, the soundtrack demonstrated the Beatles' departure from true rock values in favour of studio effects, and he found artifice in the "waft of foggy music" accompanying Harrison's declaration that "There's a fog upon LA". Typically of Harrison's recent songs, Goldstein continued, "Blue Jay Way" was "filled with fascinating tones and textures" but the message was confused and laboured, and he complained that it was sung with a vocal that was "[more] sandpaper than Satori". Rex Reed, in a highly unfavourable review of the album for HiFi/Stereo Review, said the song "consists of three minutes and fifty seconds of the Beatles sounding as if they are singing under water or gargling with Listerine" and dismissed it as "boring as hell". By contrast, Robert Christgau wrote in Esquire that, despite three of the new songs being "disappointing", Magical Mystery Tour was "worth buying ... especially for Harrison's hypnotic 'Blue Jay Way. Christgau described the track as "an adaptation of Oriental modes in which everything works, lyrics included".

Retrospective assessments
A critic of the Beatles' output immediately post-Sgt. Pepper, Ian MacDonald found "Blue Jay Way" "as unfocused and monotonous as most of the group's output of this period", adding that the song "numbingly fails to transcend the weary boredom that inspired it". Writing for Rolling Stone in 2002, Greg Kot considered it to be "one of [Harrison's] least-memorable Beatles tracks … a song essentially about boredom – and it sounds like it". Similarly unimpressed with Magical Mystery Tour, Tim Riley describes "Blue Jay Way" as a song that "goes nowhere tiresomely", with a vocal that "sounds as tired and droning" as the musical accompaniment. In Walter Everett's view, the track's combination of unusual musical scales, reversed tape sounds and imaginative engineering makes it "the most mysterious Beatles sound between 'Strawberry Fields Forever' and 'Glass Onion, but the lyrics are "dull" by comparison.

Ian Inglis writes that the emotion Harrison conveys on the track "belies its apparently trivial lyrics" and that, together with the instrumentation and backing vocals, his pleas "create an unusually atmospheric and strangely moving song". Writing for Rough Guides, Chris Ingham deems the song to be "essential Beatlemusic"; he views it as Harrison's "most haunting and convincing musical contribution of the period", after "Within You Without You", as well as "possibly the most unnerving of all Beatles tracks". In a 2002 review for Mojo, Charles Shaar Murray described the song as "eerie, serpentine" and "a fine and worthy companion for Pepper's Within You Without You". Writing in Uncut that same year, Carol Clerk called it "a weirdly atmospheric triumph".

In his book Indian Music and the West, Gerry Farrell refers to the song when discussing its author's contribution to popularising Indian classical music, writing: "It is a mark of Harrison's sincere involvement with Indian music that, nearly thirty years on, the Beatles' 'Indian' songs remain among the most imaginative and successful examples of this type of fusion – for example, 'Blue Jay Way' and 'The Inner Light. Simon Leng writes of the song: "Harrison was working at a sophisticated level of extrapolating Indian scales to the Western setting, something no one else had done … 'Blue Jay Way' explores the structures of Indian music just as 'Within You Without You' debates its philosophical roots." Former Record Collector editor Peter Doggett, writing in Barry Miles' The Beatles Diary, similarly admires the recording, saying that the Beatles rendered the song "an exotic, almost mystical journey" that evokes a mysterious Eastern mood "without a single Indian instrument being employed". Music critic Jim DeRogatis ranks "Blue Jay Way" at number 7 in his list of the Beatles' best psychedelic rock songs.

In a 2009 review for Consequence of Sound, Dan Caffrey highlights the track among the "stellar moments in the album's first half" and considers it to be "George Harrison's most underrated song". Caffrey adds: "For a piece inspired by the simple act of waiting for a friend to arrive at his Los Angeles home on a foggy night, 'Blue Jay Way' is a haunted house of a hit, adding an ethereal, creepy mythos to the City of Angels." Writing for The A.V. Club, Chuck Klosterman describes the song as being among "the trippiest ... material [the Beatles] ever made", while Mark Kemp of Paste views it as "wonderfully wobbly". Scott Plagenhoef of Pitchfork includes "Blue Jay Way" among the EP's four "low-key marvels", saying: "Few of them are anyone's all-time favorite Beatles songs ... yet this run seems to achieve a majesty in part because of that: It's a rare stretch of amazing Beatles music that can seem like a private obsession rather than a permanent part of our shared culture."

In 2001, the song was ranked 39th on Uncut's list of "The 50 Greatest Beatles Tracks". Q magazine included it in their list of "The 500 Greatest Lost Tracks", published in 2007. In 2018, the music staff of Time Out London ranked "Blue Jay Way" at number 46 on their list of the best Beatles songs.

Cover versions and cultural references
Lord Sitar included "Blue Jay Way" on his 1968 album of Indian music-style recordings, titled Lord Sitar. The artist credit was a pseudonym for London session guitarist Big Jim Sullivan, although rumours circulated that Lord Sitar was in fact Harrison himself, partly as a result of EMI/Capitol's refusal to deny the claim. Also in 1968, jazz saxophonist and flautist Bud Shank, another associate of Ravi Shankar, recorded the song for his album Magical Mystery.

"Blue Jay Way" was a rare Beatles song released before their 1968 self-titled double album that Charles Manson adopted as part of his theory of an impending social revolution in the United States, a scenario that led to his followers carrying out a series of murders in Los Angeles during the summer of 1969. Finding parallels between the Beatles' lyrics and the Book of Revelation, and believing himself to be the messiah, Manson interpreted Harrison's opening verse and chorus as the Beatles calling out to Jesus Christ.

Colin Newman, singer and guitarist with the post-punk band Wire, included a cover of "Blue Jay Way" on his 1982 solo album Not To. In March 2015, the song was his selection for the NME "100 Greatest Beatles Songs" poll. Newman cited the track as an example of how the Beatles were "properly serious about their art" and why they now "need to be rescued from the clammy clutches of the heritage industry".

Borbetomagus released a live recording of the song on their 1992 album Buncha Hair That Long, a version that Trouser Press later said "could easily reunite the Beatles for good if it were played in the presence of the surviving trio". On their 2003 live album Seven Year Itch, Siouxsie and the Banshees included a reading that, according to The Guardian's reviewer, "transformed [the song] into an apocalyptic howl". Other artists who have covered "Blue Jay Way" include Tracy Bonham, on her 2007 album In the City + In the Woods, and the Secret Machines, whose version appears in the Julie Taymor-directed film Across the Universe (2007). Former Cars keyboardist Greg Hawkes recorded a ukulele rendition for his 2008 solo album The Beatles Uke.

Harrison's experience when writing "Blue Jay Way" is referenced in the Jonathan Kellerman novel Obsession (2007), as the lead character, Alex Delaware, waits among the "bird streets" overlooking Sunset Strip. The US hip hop group Death Grips included a reversed sample of "Blue Jay Way" as well as a quote from the song's lyrics in their 2012 track "Double Helix", released on The Money Store, an album that Clash magazine described as sounding like "the burning skies of LA's decaying empire".

In a 2011 interview, music producer and radio host Kim Fowley identified "Blue Jay Way" as the first song in which a member of the Beatles wrote about America and cited it as evidence of Harrison's standing as "the most American of all the Beatles" during the 1960s. Fowley highlighted this connection – including Harrison's friendships with David Crosby of the Byrds and other California-based musicians, such as Leon Russell – as the foundation for rock music's first all-star charity concert, the Concert for Bangladesh, which Harrison staged in New York in August 1971.

Due to the attention created by the Beatles' song, the street signs for Blue Jay Way have long been collector's items for fans visiting the Hollywood Hills. In May 2015, a lane in the Heavitree area of Exeter, in the English county of Devon, was named Blue Jay Way after the song. In addition to much of the filming for Magical Mystery Tour having taken place at various locations in the West Country, the title commemorates the Beatles' three concert appearances at Exeter's ABC Cinema over 1963–64.

Personnel
According to Ian MacDonald, except where noted:

 * George Harrison – lead vocals, Hammond organ, backing vocal
 * John Lennon – backing vocal, Hammond organ
 * Paul McCartney – backing vocal, bass guitar
 * Ringo Starr – drums, tambourine
 * Unnamed session musician – cello

title: Blue Jay Way


text:
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title: User talk:Elgatoesme


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Your Mother Should Know

"Your Mother Should Know" is a song by the English rock band the Beatles, from their 1967 EP and LP, Magical Mystery Tour. It was written by Paul McCartney and credited to Lennon–McCartney. Titled after a line in the 1961 film A Taste of Honey, its lyrical premise centres on the history of hit songs across generations. McCartney said he wrote it as a plea for generational understanding and respect for a mother's life experience. In the Magical Mystery Tour television film, the song serves as a big production number in the style of a 1930s Hollywood musical. Some commentators view the sequence as cultural satire, as the Beatles are seen dancing and dressed in white evening tails.

"Your Mother Should Know" is written in the music hall style, as was McCartney's earlier composition, "When I'm Sixty-Four". He first offered it as the Beatles' contribution to the Our World satellite broadcast in June 1967, but the band favoured John Lennon's "All You Need Is Love" for its social significance. The initial sessions for "Your Mother Should Know" took place at Chappell Recording Studios in London, towards the end of August. The group were visited there by their manager, Brian Epstein, the last time he joined them in the studio before his death on 27 August.

Background and inspiration
Paul McCartney began writing "Your Mother Should Know" on a harmonium at his house in St John's Wood, London, in the company of his Aunty Jin and Uncle Harry, and drew on his father's love of music hall. The conversation he had with his family members that day inspired the subject matter of the song. Its lyrical premise centres on the history of hit songs across generations. McCartney took the title from a line in the 1961 film A Taste of Honey, which tells of a white teenage girl who falls pregnant with a black man's child and withholds news of the pregnancy from her domineering mother.

Discussing "Your Mother Should Know" in his 1997 authorised biography, Many Years from Now, McCartney said he sought to address the issue of generation barriers. He lamented how an argument between a mother and her child could have enduring consequences for their relationship, and added: "So I was advocating peace between the generations ... I was basically trying to say, your mother might know more than you think she does. Give her credit."

McCartney said he envisaged the song as a "production number" while planning the Beatles' 1967 television film Magical Mystery Tour. After the band finished recording the film's title song in May that year, the project lay dormant because John Lennon and George Harrison had little enthusiasm for it. McCartney first offered "Your Mother Should Know" as the Beatles' contribution to the Our World satellite broadcast in June, but the band favoured Lennon's "All You Need Is Love" for its social significance.

Composition
On the Beatles' recording, "Your Mother Should Know" is performed in the key of A minor and its time signature is 4/4. The use of piano crotchet chords is typical of McCartney's compositions of the time, starting with "Got to Get You into My Life" in 1966. The song's rhythm suggests a foxtrot, a quality it shares with "Catcall" (formerly titled "Catwalk"), a McCartney-written instrumental recorded by Chris Barber's trad jazz band in July 1967. Musicologist Walter Everett comments that the two pieces also share a "syncopated ascending octave-arpeggiation of a minor triad". The composition consists of verse-chorus sections contrasted with instrumental bridges. One of the verse-choruses includes vocalised "da-da-da"s in place of lyrics, representing the singalong tradition of music hall.

According to music historian Joe Harrington, the song is an example of rock music's embrace of vaudeville in the late 1960s, which was part of the genre's development away from its rock 'n' roll roots in favour of eclecticism and a more artistic aesthetic. The song's music hall aspect recalls McCartney's "When I'm Sixty-Four" from the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band album. Its lyrical theme repeats the sympathetic portrayal of a parent offered in "She's Leaving Home" from the same album. In author Doyle Greene's view, whereas "She's Leaving Home" conveys sympathy for a teenage runaway and her parents, the generational understanding espoused in "Your Mother Should Know" is more one-sided and suggests "maternal authority and youth compliance".

Recording
The Beatles began recording "Your Mother Should Know" on 22 August 1967, their first session in close to two months. The recording took place at Chappell Recording Studios in central London because EMI Studios was unavailable at short notice. Although the Beatles had never worked at Chappell before, McCartney had participated in the session there for "Catcall" the previous month.

Recording continued at Chappell on 23 August. The overdubs included backing vocals by Lennon, McCartney and Harrison, which, according to music critic Tim Riley, give the performance a "parodic irreverence". That session was the last time that Brian Epstein, the group's manager, visited them in a recording studio. Following Epstein's death on 27 August, the Beatles committed to making Magical Mystery Tour because as McCartney insisted the band needed to focus on a new creative project.

The Beatles devoted a 16 September session at EMI Studios to remaking "Your Mother Should Know" because McCartney was dissatisfied with the earlier version. The remake was discarded, however, because he and Lennon completed overdubs on the Chappell recording on 29 September. McCartney added bass guitar while Lennon overdubbed Hammond organ, the latter filling out the song's vocal-less bridge sections. Mixing was completed on 7 November, with panning variation applied to the vocals in the stereo mix.

Sequence in Magical Mystery Tour
In the Magical Mystery Tour film, the song supports an old-fashioned dance segment that McCartney called "the Busby Berkeley ending". It was filmed on 24 September, at the end of a six-day shoot at RAF West Malling, a Royal Air Force base in Kent. McCartney had intended to shoot the scene at Shepperton Studios, outside London, but the Beatles failed to appreciate that film studios needed to be booked in advance. Tony Bramwell, the film's production manager, recalled having a staircase for the sequence assembled on scaffolding inside a disused aircraft hangar, which was the most elaborate set piece in the film. Around 160 dancers from Peggy Spencer's formation dancing team, and 24 female RAF cadets, were hired as extras. The formation dancers were regulars on the TV show Come Dancing, and were brought in by bus from Birmingham, Cardiff and Newcastle for the shoot. According to Maurice Gibb of the Bee Gees, McCartney got the idea for the Beatles' costumes from seeing him perform in concert with the Bee Gees, dressed all in white. The band rehearsed their dance routine for most of the day but the generators failed just as filming got underway. Gavrik Losey, a production assistant on the film, said that, while the generators were repaired, the dancers were "bribed" into staying late with Beatles autographs.

The sequence starts with the Beatles coming down a grand staircase in white evening tails. After they descend, a line of female RAF cadets march through the shot and the band continue to mime to the song, surrounded by a crowd of ballroom dancers. Lennon, Harrison and Ringo Starr are wearing red carnations, while McCartney's is black. The carnation difference later contributed to the "Paul is dead" urban legend. Towards the end of the sequence, McCartney steps forward from his bandmates and indulges in a dance of his own while the others continue the basic routine. Greene writes that, in contrast to McCartney's obvious enjoyment, Lennon and Harrison's facial expressions suggest "they'd rather be anywhere else" than filming the scene.

According to film studies academic Bob Neaverson, the sequence is a pastiche of 1930s Hollywood musicals, particularly Berkeley's Gold Diggers series of films. In Greene's view, the sequence masks the sense of old-fashioned compliance in "Your Mother Should Know". He cites the entrance of the young RAF cadets, amid the throng of formally dressed dancers, as an example of the scene having "a satirical undercurrent and [addressing] the fissures of late 1960s politics". Film-maker Anthony Wall, commenting on the 2012 DVD reissue of Magical Mystery Tour, also recognised the sequence as a subtle satire of British culture. He said of the Beatles: "All this Come Dancing stuff, the girls in uniforms, and coming down a staircase in white suits is kind of ridiculous, but they're also revelling in the peculiarity of it."

Release
"Your Mother Should Know", and the five other songs from the film, were compiled for release on the Magical Mystery Tour double EP, except in the United States. There, Capitol Records chose to create an LP by augmenting those songs with the Beatles' non-album single tracks from 1967. The Capitol release took place on 27 November 1967, while Parlophone issued the EP on 8 December. Already familiar to fans before the film's debut, the soundtrack record was a commercial success.

The BBC scheduled Magical Mystery Tour for prime-time viewing during the Christmas holiday season, during which regular programming usually consisted of family sitcoms and variety shows. The film was broadcast in the UK on BBC1 on 26 December, but in black and white rather than colour. It was savaged by reviewers, earning the Beatles their first public and critical failure. As a result of the unfavourable reviews, networks in the US declined to show the film.

According to author Barry Miles, Magical Mystery Tour baffled the British public because "many viewers were assuming that the show would be the kind of song-and-dance spectacular that the closing 'Your Mother Should Know' sequence satirised." Peter Brown, an executive at Epstein's company NEMS, was critical of the project's disorganisation and McCartney's extravagance when filming his "top hat and cane dance number" and the segment for "The Fool on the Hill". He said that "if Brian had been alive, it never would have happened the way it did."

Reception
Bob Dawbarn of Melody Maker described the Magical Mystery Tour EP as "six tracks which no other pop group in the world could begin to approach for originality combined with the popular touch". He said that "Your Mother Should Know" was "one of the two most instantly attractive songs", the other being "The Fool on the Hill", with "a tune that sticks in the memory first time round". In Record Mirror, Norman Jopling wrote: "'Your Mother Should Know' is [a] medium tempo ballad with a corny sort of tune – but the atmosphere developed is fantastic. It's a hazy, stoned kind of sensation which reminds you of hearing old tunes, in smoky rooms ..."

Among reviews of the American LP, Richard Goldstein of The New York Times complained that the new songs furthered the "electronic posturing" of Sgt. Pepper and showed the Beatles overly focused on motif and overall effect. He said that "Magical Mystery Tour" and "its nostalgic refrain, 'Your Mother Should Know'" were "motifs disguised as songs", adding: "Both declare their moods (in stock musical phrases) but neither succeeds in establishing them. Instead, these cuts are as tedious and stuffy as an after-dinner speech." Writing in Esquire, Robert Christgau considered three of the soundtrack songs to be "disappointing", particularly "The Fool on the Hill", but cited the "tender camp of 'Your Mother Should Know'" as one of the reasons to buy the album. Rex Reed, in a highly unfavourable review of the LP for HiFi/Stereo Review, did not care for the track at all, calling it "nothing more than a Gaslight Era cabaret tune full of da-das and yeah-yeahs".

In Tim Riley's view, the Magical Mystery Tour songs were largely uninspired recreations of Sgt. Pepper, and he described "Your Mother Should Know" as "'When I'm Sixty-Four' in knickers". He said that although the harmonic ideas are "bright and clever", the instrumental bridges interrupt rather than complement the verses, and the inclusion of the "da-da-da" singalong "make[s] it sound like a demo with dummy lyrics". Jonathan Gould also saw the soundtrack as a lesser version of Sgt. Pepper and described "Your Mother Should Know" as a "halfhearted attempt at satiric nostalgia in the style of 'When I'm Sixty-Four'". He said the song appeared unfinished and, while it served its purpose in the film, and showed Starr to be "the leading vaudeville drummer in rock", the track was "lackluster" on record. Ian MacDonald considered the stereo panning to be innovative but also a ruse "to conceal the fact that its author hadn't managed to think up a middle eight". He viewed that as indicative of the effects of McCartney's LSD intake in the months following Sgt. Pepper, notwithstanding his efforts to arrest the Beatles' apathy when they regrouped after their summer break to record the track.

Other versions
The song has been covered by artists such as Kenny Ball and His Jazzmen, Phyllis Newman, Bud Shank, Travis Shook and Mike Batt. In 1989, "Weird Al" Yankovic parodied the Magical Mystery Tour dance sequence in his music video for the title track of his album UHF – Original Motion Picture Soundtrack and Other Stuff.

The Beatles' discarded remake of the song was included on their 1996 outtakes compilation Anthology 2. The arrangement includes McCartney playing harmonium, rather than piano, and what music critic Richie Unterberger calls "the peculiar use of stilted, martial drumming" by Starr. McCartney first performed "Your Mother Should Know" in concert on 4 May 2013, when he opened his Out There! world tour at the Estádio Mineirão in Belo Horizonte, Brazil.

Personnel
According to Ian MacDonald:

 * Paul McCartney – lead and backing vocals, piano, bass guitar
 * John Lennon – backing vocals, Hammond organ
 * George Harrison – backing vocals, lead guitar
 * Ringo Starr – drums, tambourine

title: Your Mother Should Know


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Talk:Rick Hunter

Re: McKinney De-Canonization
I know I'm not alone among Robotech fans in saying that if Shadow Chronicles greatly diverges from the story put forth by McKinney, then it had better be a damn GOOD story or I will continue to ignore it. The reason so many fans like McKinney's novels despite their "de-canonification" is because they make good stories and offer a lot of believable insight into the motives and thoughts of the characters.

And personally, I don't understand why Harmony Gold would license the McKinney books and then turn around and say we're now supposed to forget about them. They ought to have more respect for their fans than that. It's kind of like how Rick Berman and Brannon Braga threw out thirty years of established Star Trek universe lore, much of it approved by Roddenberry and Fontana, to create the completely different world of Star Trek: Enterprise. Playing fast and loose with the established world of your story is an excellent way to offend your audience and destroy suspension of disbelief.

-Kasreyn

Style
The writing style of this entry doesn't seem appropriate for Wikipedia -- there's an in-universe rather than out-of-universe approach. There's no reference to the character's appearances in other media. In contrast, the entry for the Macross analogue to the character, Hikaru Ichijyo, is written in a style more consistent with Wikipedia standards.FixerMX 19:36, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Stop with the Macross already

 * Oppose merge - I am removing all merge suggestions for any Robotech character involved. I agree that Robotech character descriptions should include links to any character descriptions from the original source material.  After all, they do share the animation.  However, the fact is that Robotech as a story concept and development is completely different from its source material.  It's time to end the confusion between them. Kinglehr 02:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)Kinglehr

Merge
This is just silly. Hikaru Ichijyo and Rick Hunter have different names, but are still basically the same character. We need sections detailing the respective aspects of the character and how they are different, not seperate articles. My main case in point is Lynn Minmay; the one character whose name doesn't change and−surprise, surprise−doesn't have seperate articles. This should be the case across the board.--SeizureDog (talk) 12:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Given that Macross and its many sequels far outnumber Robotech in volume, popularity and predate it chronologically, if anything the Rick Hunter article should be a subset of the Hikaru Ichijyo article, not vice-versa. The Rick Hunter character was only based upon the original Macross character, and any information or references within the later chapters of Robotech are complete fabrications on the part of Western writers and authors. It's rather condescending and insulting to the fully-realized and developed japanese Macross franchise to treat it as a subsidiary of Robotech in any sense. 74.210.71.26 (talk) 21:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

 * As is it to treat the many Robotech sequels and stories as something less than the original. 139.55.7.108 (talk) 15:55, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Rick Hunter is Japanese American??
Original Character is Japanese (61.118.188.28 (talk) 16:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC))

title: Talk:Rick Hunter


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Talk:Mantle (monastic vesture)

Going over Special:Whatlinkshere/Mantle, I'm not so sure it wouldn't be better to have this page moved to Mantle (clothing), and Mantle (disambiguation) moved here. Any objections? — Itai (f&t) 22:00, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Good idea. I'd support such a change. Stewart Adcock 15:36, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree as well. In fact I got to this article from another that meant to link to the geological meaning. --mav 01:29, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Agree, geological mantle or even mantlepiece is more common - if it's not one of them, it should go straight to the disambig. Weebs 19:59, 17 November 2005 (UTC)hi

 * Agree, This article should be moved to Mantle_(clothing) and Mantle should redirect to Mantle_(geology) or disambiguation.

The geological meaning is the most important of all the meanings.

Revision
I have done some major revising, making the article more specific to the topic of Eastern Orthodox liturgical dress, cleaning up references, and adding links to informative photos. Please review these changes before doing any moving. Also, any suggestions would be warmly appreciated. Thanks. MishaPan 01:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I have also edited the disambuguation page so that the reference to this page is clearer.MishaPan 01:28, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Remove Cleanup/Restructure Tag
The cleanup-restructure tag was added in November 2006. Since then the article has undergone some major re-working. If no one objects, I will probably remove this tag in a few days. MishaPan 03:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Removed tag. MishaPan 21:11, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

POV problem
Not that I object to a comprehensive treatment of Orthodox subjects, but this is a problem, I think. The English word "mantle" does not denote a monastic garment. While the word is probably cognate to "mandyas" it has a different history, and as long as it was in common use it remained a cloak. It seems odd to discuss it as only the Orthodox monastic garment when "mantle" is just the word used to translate the Greek or Russian. In fact the LXX doesn't say "mandyas" at 4 Kings 2:13-14, but "μηλωτὴν", "sheepskin" ; and I believe it's something similar in Hebrew. So to say that it first appears in the Old Testament at that point isn't quite the case. If that connection has been made somewhere it should probably be sourced. TCC (talk) (contribs) 19:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

It has occurred to me that the Desert Fathers used sheepskin mantles, and perhaps this might be taken as an imitation of Elias. But the modern monastic mantle is Constantipolitan in origin. (My bishop has often remarked that only in Constantinople could anyone invent a piece of clothing so impractical.) Any connection between it and the sheepskin of the Desert Fathers needs to be explicated, if it exists at all. TCC (talk) (contribs) 04:40, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

 * The article could be moved to a new page named "Mandyas" (careful editing of all links to "mantle" would have to be made), and the current page used for the more common use of mantle, esp. the mantles worn by monarchs and members of orders of chivalry. MishaPan 22:00, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

 * That makes a great deal of sense. TCC (talk) (contribs) 22:40, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation
When I typed in "mantle" for the search I expected a disambiguation page. I was looking for the material beneath the Earth's crust. However I know that the search automatically makes my term Mantle meaning Micky Mantle was also likely to show up if not a disambiguation page. Instead I got this article, which was also a term I gave a chance to be the result, but it was third behind the Mick and the mantle associated with fireplaces.

Long story short to comply with Disambiguation; I'm moving this article to Mantle (vesture) and Mantle (disambiguation) here. When there are several well known possible meanings for one word that word is the disambiguation page. See Table. Anynobody 07:17, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Mantle (monastic vesture)


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Corvin Castle

Corvin Castle, also known as Hunyadi Castle or Hunedoara Castle (Romanian: Castelul Huniazilor or Castelul Corvinilor; Hungarian: Vajdahunyadi vár), is a Gothic-Renaissance castle in Hunedoara, Romania. It is considered one of the largest castles in Europe and is featured as one of the Seven Wonders of Romania.

History
Corvin Castle was laid out in 1446, when construction began by order of Voivode of Transylvania John Hunyadi (Hunyadi János, Iancu or Ioan de Hunedoara), who wanted to transform the former keep built by Charles I of Hungary. The castle was originally given to John Hunyadi's father, Woyk (Vajk, Voicu), by Sigismund of Luxembourg, king of Hungary and Croatia, as severance in 1409. It was also in 1446 that John Hunyadi was elected as the regent governor by the Diet.

The castle has three large areas: the Knight's Hall, the Diet Hall and the circular stairway. The halls are rectangular in shape and are decorated with marble. The Diet Hall was used for ceremonies or formal receptions whilst the Knight's Hall was used for feasts. In 1456, John Hunyadi died and work on the castle stagnated. Starting with 1458, new commissions were being undergone to construct the Matia Wing of the castle. In 1480, work was completely stopped on the castle and it was recognised as being one of the biggest and most impressive buildings in Eastern Europe.

The 16th century did not bring any improvements to the castle, but during the 17th century new additions were made for aesthetic and military purposes. Aesthetically, the large new palace was built facing the town. A two-level building, it hosted living chambers and a large living area. For military purposes, two new towers were constructed: the White Tower and the Artillery Tower. Also, the external yard was added for administration and storage.

The current castle is the result of a fanciful restoration campaign undertaken after a disastrous fire and many decades of total neglect. Some considered that modern "architects projected to it their own wistful interpretations of how a great Gothic castle should look". In 2021 Corvin Castle attracted around 276,000 tourists.

Structure
Built in a Renaissance-Gothic style and constructed over the site of an older fortification on a rock above the smaller Zlaști River, the castle is a large and imposing structure with tall towers, bastions, an inner courtyard, diversely coloured roofs, and myriad windows and balconies adorned with stone carvings. The castle also features a double wall for enhanced fortification and is flanked by both rectangular and circular towers, an architectural innovation for the period's Transylvanian architecture. Some of the towers (the Capistrano Tower, the Deserted Tower and the Drummers' Tower) were used as prisons. The Buzdugan Tower (named after a type of mace) was solely built for defensive purposes and it had its exterior decorated with geometric motifs. The rectangular towers have large openings to accommodate larger weapons.

As one of the most important properties of John Hunyadi, the castle was transformed during his reign. It became a sumptuous home, not only a strategically enforced point. With the passing of the years, the masters of the castle had modified its look, adding towers, halls and guest rooms. The gallery and the keep - the last defense tower (called "Neboisa" which means "Don't be afraid" in Serbo-Croatian), which remained unchanged from John Hunyadi's time, and the Capistrano Tower (named after the saint, Franciscan friar from the Battle of Belgrade in 1456) are some of the most significant parts of the construction. Other significant parts of the building are the Knights' Hall (a great reception hall), the Club Tower, the White bastion, which served as a food storage room, and the Diet Hall, on whose walls medallions are painted (among them there are portraits of Matei Basarab, rulers from Wallachia, and Vasile Lupu, ruler of Moldavia). In the wing of the castle called the Mantle, a painting can be seen which portrays the legend of the raven from which the name of the descendants of John Hunyadi. Then, Corvinus came.

Legacy
Tourists are told that it was the place where Vlad the Impaler, Prince of Wallachia, was held prisoner by John Hunyadi, Hungary's military leader and regent during the King's minority. Later, Vlad III entered a political alliance with John Hunyadi, although the latter was responsible for the execution of his father, Vlad II Dracul. Because of these links, the Hunedoara Castle is sometimes mentioned as a source of inspiration for Castle Dracula in Bram Stoker's 1897 horror novel Dracula. In fact, Stoker neither knew about Vlad's alliance with Hunyadi, nor about Hunyadi's castle. Instead, Stoker's own handwritten research notes confirm that the novelist imagined Castle Dracula to be situated on an empty top in the Transylvanian Călimani Mountains near the former border with Moldavia.

In the castle yard, near the 15th-century chapel, there is a 30 m well. According to the legend, this fountain was dug by 3 Turkish prisoners to whom liberty was promised if they reached water. After 15 years they completed the well, but their captors did not keep their promise. It is said that the inscription on a wall of the well means "you have water, but not soul". Specialists, however, have translated the inscription as "he who wrote this inscription is Hasan, who lives as slave of the giaours, in the fortress near the church".

A replica of the castle, built in the late 19th century, can be found in Budapest, Hungary.

The final action sequence of the 2015 Bollywood movie Singh Is Bling starring Akshay Kumar was shot at the castle.

In 2018, the castle was used as the "Cârța Monastery" in the horror movie The Nun.

title: Corvin Castle


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Talk:Phalanx CIWS

Turkish Navy
I can't provide online source for this, I know it first hand that Turkish Navy has Phalanx systems. I have seen it on several Turkish frigates myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.254.134.112 (talk) 19:16, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Range
The Saar 5s carry a 20mm Phalanx auto cannon for knocking down anti-ship missiles, and, in this case, the Phalanx may have only been partially successful. A second C-802, fired at the same time, locked onto a near by Egyptian freighter, and sank it. Both ships were about 60 kilometers off the coast. The C-820 has a max range of 120 kilometers, and moves along at about 250 meters a second. Phalanx is supposed to be turned on whenever the ship is likely to have an anti-ship missile fired at it. The radar can spot incoming missiles out to about 5,000 meters, and the 20mm cannon is effective out to about 2,000 meters. With incoming missiles moving a 250 meters a second, you can see why Phalanx is set to automatic. There's not much time for human intervention. The Israelis are not releasing any information about how their defenses (including the electronic ones) handled the incoming C-802s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.214.169.251 (talk) 20:30, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Phalanx CIWS would not (afaik) normally engage the second C-802 fired at the same time, as it was not a *direct* threat to the ship armed with Phalanx. There is a good question however as to range. This (relatively recent) article by the british army news site Forces.net suggests an effective range of 9km.

This is substantially in excess of the effective ranges cited in the material which is the source of the cited ranges for the article.

Do we have any really god details on range.

Additional point - the pages on other systems such as Goalkeeper CIWS include a useful comparison section "Comparison with current CIWS"

Elvisbrandenburgkremmen (talk) 23:47, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Rate of fire
Ok, so they fire 2000 rounds per 2000, but they only hold 1500 rounds in their clip, that means they can only fire for less than half a second before having to "reload"? Or do they have some kind of ammo hold that automatically feeds into the gun? --Rain 22:01, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually, that would be 20 seconds worth of fire. If you look at the Goalkeeper CIWS page, there is more helpful information.  It probably takes only a few seconds of fire to destroy the target.  Noisy | Talk 23:37, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

You are correct. As a former CIWS tech it normally takes approx 200-300 rounds to destroy an imbound projectile. In the wiki entry I edited the fire rate and Radar Information. Hydraulic CIWS systems can only fire 3000 rounds a minute. The newer Pneumatic 1A and 1B systems can only fire 4500 rounds a min. The fire rate for the newer systems is not able to be changed.

There is not a Search and Track Radar System. There is only one Radar System which has a Search and Track Antenna. The system utilizes only one of the antennas at a time due to there only being one transmitter in the system. And please don't refernce the Track antenna as "Orange Peel" that is inaccurate. It is an Inverted Truncated Parrabaloid antenna. The Search is a 4 Beam phased array antenna for the newer systems.

Tick mark on photo
The ciws on the Missouri has a broken missle tick on it. Did it shoot down one of the two Iraqi silkworms fired in it's vacinity? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.185.65.168 (talk • contribs) November 4, 2005.

 * Perhaps it got partial credit for the kill?

 * This is a a very amazing and useful weapon, but it _does_ have the dubious distinction of being one of the few systems that has killed more users than it has saved, as a number of maintenance personell have been crushed while working on an unsecured weapon. Should this be mentioned in the article? --Hazel —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.173.75.23 (talk • contribs) June 9, 2006.

 * Killed more users? I'd like to see the source for that statement. --Dual Freq 22:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

 * The tick mark is probably the result of a successful test firing against a towed target. Royhandy 01:02, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes Tick marks are sometimes made by the crew after a Succesfully Towed missile engament. And no one has ever been crushed by the system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.1.148.15 (talk) 04:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Friendly fire incident
Though I'm not specifically familiar with this incident, it seems unlikely that Phalanx would fire at a deployed Chaff cloud. Chaff is launched from what is basically a rocket launcher. This projectile, containing chaff, must be propelled away from the ship where it explodes hopefully luring the missile away. It seems that from this source the CIWS fired at the rocket after it launched and before the chaff deployed. A 5 inch rocket heading toward the Jarrett at that range would seem to be worth shooting at. Yes, it's friendly fire, but it seems like Phalanx was only doing what it was supposed to do. Without seeing an official report, perhaps the weapon fired at the rocket until it either no longer met engagement criteria (wasn't a threat to the Jarrett), or until the rocket deployed its chaff with some of the Phalanx rounds following a ballistic trajectory and hitting the Missouri. The way the article and its source are worded, it implies that CIWS malfunctioned, and fired at the [deployed] Chaff. I'd say it did what it was supposed to, but it resulted in an unintended consequence. --Dual Freq 22:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

There are some misunderstandings that happened during this incident. It was an older system with less advanced computing and radar as the newer system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.1.148.15 (talk) 04:08, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

"Last line of defense"
This phrase is used an awful lot in this article. Perhaps it could be cleaned up a bit to be less repetitive? Viper007Bond 10:03, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

SeaRAM
Should there be a mention of SeaRAM in this article? The system is made using a Phalanx frame, radar and other components, and I believe it is Navy policy that it will replace the gun-based CIWS in most applications. --Warphammer 19:31, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Nuke the fiction section?
The CIWS has no major fictional appearances. The section is an IMDB listing of its nominal appearances in films. I say let's delete the whole thing as non-notable. --Mmx1 18:20, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I've never been a big fan of fiction sections in general. The one on this page is very large and basically useless. I've dealt with these sections before, they are hard to get rid of because everyone wants to add their favorite Anime feature, model airplane, GI Joe toy or some such thing to the list. The R2D2 thing in the lead paragraph bothers me a bit too. I bet the only ones who call it R2D2 are mess cooks or non-navy folks who have no idea what it really is. I never heard it called R2D2, but that's only my informed opinion. I'd say if it has a real nick name it would be CWIS, pronounced sea-whiz. Dual Freq 21:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I was tangentially involved in the turnup at Balad and we *always* called it "C-RAM" ("seeram"). I was civvie so when I say "we" I mean myself and every uniform associated with the project. I'd call it "R2D2 with a chubby" to people who hadn't heard that term, but it was just for a few laughs and then right back to "C-RAM".Geeyore (talk) 19:21, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It's frequently referred to not as "R2D2" but "R2D2 with a hard-on" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.95.222.108 (talk • contribs).
 * Yep, operations and supply department might call it that, but not Combat systems and not the Firecontrolman who maintain the system. Dual Freq 02:00, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Nuked the fiction; not sure about R2D2. No experience in the Navy, but I have heard it often on the civilian side. May just be an apocryphal story. --Mmx1 02:04, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I remember it being frequently called that, while in I was in the Navy, but I never served on a ship with the system. I agree that R2D2 should not appear in the first paragraph. It may hve been called that to point it out easily from a distance, the white and the shape would stick out a lot (espeically on the battleships), and a quick reference rather than describing the shape. Plus that was a good quick reference when they started appearing on the ships in the early 1980's. --Wfoj2 23:00 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree the R2D2 name may have been more common early on. My dad was in the USN during the time of their introduction and that usage was fairly common when they were first appearing, with "Sea-Whiz" being more common by the 90s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.181.12.117 (talk) 21:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

You lot are arrogant as hell, as if you are both omniscient and omnipotent. You clearly are operating on second and third hand information. Just because something is not "notable" to you, does not mean it is not notable to others. Consider the fact that there might be over viewpoints in the universe which should be considered. I know it is difficult for a pack of wikinazis, but just try it for once. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.171.19.245 (talk) 08:28, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Dear 124.171.19.245, if this is your best attempt at discussion, I give up. Despite my attempt to engage you in a meaningful dialogue, you have not shown the least bit of civility towards everybody. As everybody can see here, you're not doing yourself a favour by calling us names (Wikinazis???). IF you do not wish to discuss then so be it, why even come here to make such a big ruckus. As a matter of fact, your edit stays off if the regular editors do not agree in our consensus and what you have remarked has made even more impossible for us to accept your argument. Oh and by the way, you have just been blocked for 31hours due to your disruptive editing behaviour here. Best. -- Dave ♠♣♥♦™№1185©♪♫® 09:09, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

CIWS 1
Isn't this a very maintenance intensive system? (and other similiar systems) Any verifiable source on this. --Wfoj2 23:00 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes very, very maintenance intensive. Approx 200-300 maintenance checks performed in a quarter, ranging from daily operational checks to Gun and Ammo handling system tear down and rebuilds performed quartley and semiannualy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.1.148.15 (talk) 04:10, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Royal Navy
Currently fitted to Royal Navy ships according to Janes: eight Type 42s, the auxiliary oiler-replenishment vessels RFA Fort Victoria and RFA Fort George, the landing platform helicopter HMS Ocean and the aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal. 81.86.144.210 07:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The RN usually says, more specifically than this article, that the Sea Dart missile actually hit the iraqi silkworm and is the only combat engagement where this occured.

CIWS 2
Although an accurate and well researched entry, i would like to point out two errors within the entry.Firstly, CIWS does not aim to destroy an incoming target by exploding the warhead. CIWS cant distinguish different parts of a target, it only sees targets as a blob.As a former CIWS technician, and someone who has visited Loiuseville (home of CIWS)and spoken to the technicians, I can say with certainty that CIWS aims to destroy a targets aerodynamics first. An incoming target doing many times the speed of sound has only to be hit once or twice to send that target into the sea, or wildly off course. If a round hits the warhead and the missile explodes, all the better, but this is not the intent. Secondly, CIWS no longer uses depleted uranium projectiles (and hasnt for 10 years). Todays antiship missiles are generally not armoured, and any aircraft that are armoured will never be within CIWS range. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matilda100 (talk • contribs) 02:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Good point about how CIWS aims to destroy a target. however the Navy still does use some Depleted Uranium primarily for training however it is still loaded aboard ships until its "depleted" from stock.

I can say from first had experience from many TOW exercises that CIWS turns missiles into swiss cheese and in all actuallity a knocked off guidance fin is the goal for knocking the missile out of the sky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.1.148.15 (talk) 04:13, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Dalek?
The R2D2 name is an American nickname, but the British navy has their own nickname, Daleks, after the robots from Doctor Who. Since it is an english name, it hasn't really caught on in the US, But I think is should have a brief mention alonside the R2D2 info. --Simpsons fan 66 03:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Is there a source for this, as there was for the American name? Additionally, the parenthasied reference should be formatted similarly, rather than simply copying the first line of the linked article. Nottheking (talk) 17:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Source here. 207.98.198.84 (talk) 20:16, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

 * I don't think that site qualifies as a reliable source. - BilCat (talk) 08:29, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:690D:3100:D1D9:71F4:E375:313B (talk) 09:10, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion
I suggest some video footage, this one is quite good as a demonstration. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILcVt9p7cug Weirdo10o4 (talk) 14:08, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Range specification
Range Specification should be 1-2 nm

Links and Companionship
Amplification of the "link" between the CIWS FLIR optical sensors and RAM RIM-116 might be useful - how is this link supported; does the statement only apply with an integrated SeaRAM weapon system? The use of term "companion" systems for Sea-RAM and CIWS may imply to casual readers that these heavy-weight systems, Sea-RAM and CIWS, are somewhere used simultaneously (as in side-by-side companions) on the same ship, and not used as one or the other but never both. Suggest a separate article for Sea-RAM (separate from CIWS and separate from RAM (regular RAM GMLS Mk 49)). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.183.224.2 (talk) 20:54, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Automated fire?
The article doesn't explain what these systems do. The article says there is a gun, electronics/computer, and a radar, but it doesn't say how they are used. I believe that the computer detects targets using the radar and fire the gun at them autonomously. Is this correct?

One could imagine that the computer reports the existence of a target and alerts on operator who approves the use of the gun. One could even imagine that the computer reports the existence of a target and aids in the aiming, but that a human actual decides whether to fire or not (to "pull the trigger" as it were). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.173.114.7 (talk) 03:44, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect hometown
The caption of a US Navy photo of a reloading operation contains an incorrect hometown(Pocatello Indiana instead of Pocatello Idaho) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.20.82.17 (talk) 21:55, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

CIWS 3
FYI only (not RS); "Mk 15 Phalanx was designed so that it could be used as a stand-alone system. It can for example be bolted to the deck of any ship, even those that lack any kind of combat systems. Just plug it in and it is ready to go. So the applications include not just combat vessels but auxiliaries such as tankers, amphibious ships, transports and cargo vessels. There is no other equivelent gun system in the west. The American/Dutch/French Goalkeeper like Phalanx has its own onboard sensor package for autonomous operation but it requires deck penetration and thus can not be easily applied to ships that were not designed for it. Goalkeeper has a more powerful weapon with greater range and lethality and can track more targets than Phalanx though. The Chinese have a system, the Type 730 which is practically a carbon-copy of Goalkeeper.

''The Italian Dardo and Swiss Seaguard not only require deck penetration for the weapon mounts but also depend heavily on the ships own combat command system for target data and fire control. The ships Target Indication Radar for example is the systems primary search element but it can also take data from the ships ESM system or an IRST while target tracking and fire control is by an off-mount electro-optical director. These systems are more massive than a stand-alone solution and naturally require much greater ship integration but have the advantage of much more powerful sensors locating higher up on the ship and the ability to handle many more targets at much greater ranges.''

''As an anti-missile system Phalanx was intended to be temporary - a sotp-gap solution until RAM was fielded, but RAM was more than a decade late so Phalanx became a fixture on many ship classes and for far longer than ever intended. In the 1980's the British Royal Navy conducted a study on the effectiveness of various anti-ship missile defenses and determined that against an Exocet-type target (relatively slow and unsophisticated) Phalanx would likely not achieve a kill until the target approached within 300 meters of the ship. For Goalkeeper the kill range was 800 meters. This is important because at ranges of less than 1 km even if the target is destroyed, fragments from it will still be travelling fast enough to pepper the ship (like a huge shotgun) and could potentially put the ship out of action like in the USS Worden incident off Vietnam. The RN stopped buying Phalanx and Goalkeeper after that. But to be fair, neither of these systems were intended to be a ships primary defense against missiles but rather its last-ditch defense, when everything else had failed.''

''Today Phalanx in the USN is no longer employed primarily to engage missile targets but is retained for use against small surface craft. To this end surviving installations are fitted with Infra-red camera's for identification and accurate tracking of small fast targets on the surface.''" Feel free to comment. -  thewolfchild   15:39, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Whilst Dardo Type A required deck penitration, according to the wiki page, Dardo Type B doesn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARDO It should be noted that the RN has put some Phalanx units on the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier, so saying that in the 1980's they "stopped buying it" (or goalkeeper for that matter) is clearly not the case. The Type 45 destroyer has Phalanx as does the plans for Type 26 frigate (it's true that Type 23 frigate for example does not have a CIWS)

Elvisbrandenburgkremmen (talk) 00:12, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

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The reference for Phalanx
links to a ship.Phd8511 (talk) 12:06, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Unit cost
Hi, the unit cost for these systems (35 million $) seemed quite eccessive, so I looked it up and it does appear to be so. Depending on the source you check it seems to be 3.8 mil (globalsecurity.org), 5.6 mil (navysite.de, bombshock.com) or 7.8 mil (deagel.com) and an upgrade cost of 4.5 + 1 mil (defensetech.org). Now you'll notice that most of these aren't particularly reliable sites, so I'll just put in the globalsecurity one till something better pops up. Cheers, --Amendola90 (talk) 10:49, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Official Designations
I think that this Phalanx CIWS page on Wikipedia should have a reference on its official designation, like the "Mk 15" in the US Armed Forces ... -- RoyKabanlit (talk) 01:46, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

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*Target Mach 2 .
Is that understood? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.104.198.97 (talk) 06:27, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Target Mach 2.

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Probably incorrect - needs a source.
'No missile had in fact been fired, but the chaff firing was in response to an erroneous "missile firing alert" that was actually an oil well head going up. The Iraqis had been setting the oil wells alight in Kuwait for some days. Exeter had relieved HMS Gloucester in the Northern Persian Gulf a few days before and in the weeks before that, Gloucester had shot down a Silkworm missile aimed at Missouri'.

This differs from most other accounts and therefore needs a source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.102.212.113 (talk) 15:13, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

In fact the source cited just before this says, ' A Seadart missile fired from the HMS Gloucester destroyed an incoming Silkworm anti-ship missile fired from one of Iraq's shore-based missile launchers'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.102.212.113 (talk) 15:19, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Is there a version of the Phalanx that combines the gun & RAM missiles?
Unless I'm mistaken, I think SeaRAM uses the Phalanx radar to fire RAM missiles, but is there a version of Phalanx that combines the Gatling gun with RAM missiles? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.146.53.61 (talk) 02:53, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Once a Phalanx is out of ammo, how long does it take to reload?
Once a Phalanx is out of ammo, how long does it take to reload? And how many Phalanx rounds does a warship carry and how many times can a Phalanx be reloaded? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.146.53.61 (talk) 03:27, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I propose merging Centurion C-RAM into Phalanx CIWS. I think the content in Centurion C-RAM can easily be explained in the context of Phalanx CIWS, and a merge would not cause any article-size or weighting problems in Phalanx CIWS. Gjs238 (talk) 16:53, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * As the creator of the C-RAM article I do Oppose the merge, they are very similar yes, but are different systems. In fact, I think taking the C-RAM section out of the CIWS article, and merging it into C-RAM. The current article is a little clunky as is, measuring at over 2.5k words (25k characters), having a split is well justified. As this is a different topic from the main article, having a second article really does not hurt, and per WP:NOMERGE "Merging should be avoided if: ... [they] could be expanded into longer standalone (but cross-linked) articles, or The topics are discrete subjects warranting their own articles, with each meeting the General Notability Guidelines, even if short." I think that C-RAM meets both of these requirements, and does not fall under any of the reasons for a merge. Geardona (talk to me?) 17:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Currently the Centurion C-RAM article is barely more than stub/start. if this article is wordy, it's because editors have let it be so. GraemeLeggett (talk) 07:31, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Hello, Again, it warrants a mention here, but I would honestly support merging the C-RAM section in this article to the C-RAM article. They are different topics, covered differently by different sources, and the article is unambiguously of a broader scope than the section. This article would be harmed by the increase of irrelevant content into it, it would clutter up the article, simple as that. Geardona (talk to me?) 10:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose merge, while derived from the Phalanx the Centurion is distinct enough and has enough significant in-depth coverage for a stand-alone article. I also think that a joint article which tried to cover both in depth would quickly become unwieldy, especially as their combat histories are very distinct. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:59, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

 * Support. I'm not seeing the need for a separate article at this time given that the Centurion C-RAM article is not currently well developed. If it were expanded to a larger size I would support a stand alone article. At this point its an unnecessary WP:CONTENTFORK.4meter4 (talk) 16:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * May I ask what part of WP:CONTENTFORK it fails, in your view? Geardona (talk to me?) 16:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @ Sure. WP:CFORK specifically mentions size as an indication of a need to create a spin off article. At this point in time the Phalanx CIWS section is of an appropriate size and of WP:DUEWEIGHT for the topic. The Phalanx CIWS article as a whole is not unwieldy no matter what was erroneously stated above. The prose count for this article clocks in at 2,942 words or 18,526 characters. We typically don't call articles unwieldy until they hit the 8,000 to 15,000 word mark per policy at WP:SIZERULE. The article is well below the word count for splitting which says that articles below 6,000 words don't even need to be trimmed. On balance, two paragraphs on the Centurion C-RAM seems appropriate in the Phalanx CIWS, and until the Centurion C-RAM article (or the subsection in the Phalanz CIWS article) is expanded significantly, there really is no reason to house essentially identical content in two locations. In other words, content development should drive the decision to split. Per WP:HASTE we don't need to rush to split these. When it's clear the content has developed to the point where we need two articles then we should have two articles. We have not yet reached that place. I would say we would need at least double the prose size at Centurion C-RAM to justify a stand alone article. The body of the article is below 1500 characters, making it a stub. I can't support keeping a stub article in this context.4meter4 (talk) 23:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Where do you see under 1500 words, dyk check word counter puts it at 1900 prose size. (Genuine question: is it a script difference or something else) Also I can handle a 2x expansion maybe this week or next. As for the dead links they are dead as a doornail, all of the archives lead to an old 404 page. Geardona (talk to me?) 10:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

This leads me to believe that A) Both articles could be expanded, and they both meet the GNG. B) Length is not a valid reason to merge two articles on discrete subjects. C) Despite WP:HASTE stating that "There is no need for haste in splitting an article when it starts getting large. Sometimes an article simply needs to be big to give the subject adequate coverage." This is not about a split of the subject of the CWIS, it is a related but different subject, therefore it does not apply. D)I don't know where you got the two thousand characters for this article, it currently sits at (according to DYK check word counter) 16357 characters (2574 words) "readable prose size". E) Despite you stating "The body of the article is below 1500 characters, making it a stub" at the time of your comment, it was not, it was around 2000. Thank you, Geardona (talk to me?) 14:28, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Actually on a slightly different note, I don't think the C-RAM section on this page is all to good, it cited to dead links and youtube videos. Can this be taken into account when considering? Geardona (talk to me?) 16:17, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, although the solution would be to fix dead url links through the waybackmachine and remove youtube videos (unless they are by recognized media, in which case they should be reformatted appropriately to attribute reliable news sources). Likewise, the better sourced material should be merged to improve the subsection at Phalanx CIWS. 4meter4 (talk) 22:34, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @4meter4 Per WP:NOTMERGE "Merging should be avoided if ... The separate topics could be expanded into longer standalone (but cross-linked) articles, or The topics are discrete subjects warranting their own articles, with each meeting the General Notability Guidelines, even if short."

 * @ I specifically stated body, meaning I didn't count the prose in the lead which is a summary of the body. Please read WP:STUBDEF which states that prose text is not our only indication that a topic is a stub. As for the other, you are completely ignoring the fact that this topic was already covered in Phalanx CIWS prior to the article you created. The arguments being made that WP:SPLIT, WP:CFORK and WP:HASTE policy aren't applicable are entirely spurious. Prior existing material matters in how we decide to cover this material both for editorial reasons and attribution purposes.
 * Given that this topic was already covered in more detail elsewhere, the stub rating stands. As for the other, I think the argument being made by the nominator is that this isn't a clearly distinct topic from the Phalanx CIWS. I could go either way on this. They are closely connected. The proof to me is in the prose size. At this point this text would not look clunky or seem unreasonable as subsection in the in the Phalanx CIWS article. The avoidance of clunky text is a key part of WP:NOTMERGE. I suggest doing the work of expanding the article by adding more content. That would prove definitively that there is a need for a separate article. Best. 4meter4 (talk) 14:48, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

 * Oppose. Now that the article is clearly more developed, merging is no longer the best option. I struck my earlier vote above.4meter4 (talk) 20:55, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Phalanx CIWS


text:
Category:National Panhellenic Conference

The National Panhellenic Conference is a governing body for 26 North American general sororities and women's fraternities.