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User talk:Piotrus/Archive 4

Blade Runner
I've been working steadily on the Blade Runner article and I think its close to FAC status. Is there anything further I should do? Also, I wanted to add 2 or 3 more images (Roy Batty holding a dove; Tyrell dimming the sun; and a Bootleg CD cover). Or is that too many images/inappropriate to display a bootleg CD cover? I also intend to shrink and move the large image near the bottom into the issues section if allowed to insert the bootleg cover. - RoyBoy 800 21:00, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Do we really need to eliminate the trivia section? I've gotten rid of the bullets and a few of smaller and/or repeated stuff. - RoyBoy 800 06:22, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Marshall Plan refusal under army threat?
Can you provide source for the edit on Marshall Plan? (the one about threat of Red Army). AFAIK Czechoslovakia and Poland initially started negotiation. Prime minister and foreign affairs minister of Czechoslovakia were asked to come to Moscow and Stalin personally forbade futher negotiations (instead he promised aid - 400,000, later 600,000 tons of grain, paid by uranium ore). I never read about threat of intervention - politicians of Czechoslovakia was already servile enough to USSR. Pavel Vozenilek 10:48, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, at least for Czechoslovakia there was no need to threaten, they were just ordered and they did what they were said. So the word "all" in article doesn't fit well. I would even guess that no ability to make independent decisions applied to other countries of former Eastern Bloc - so explicit threatening with arms was not needed. Pavel Vozenilek 11:08, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Ruch
Prośba techniczna: czy mógłbyś Szczercow przenieść do Szczerców (ponad redirem)? Byłbym wdzięczny. Halibutt 20:54, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

Vfd vote == ==

I invite your vote and comments on Votes for deletion/Occupied territories of Baltic States. Balcer 17:59, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Chris
Moglbys jako operator cos powiedziec dla User:Chris 73 by nie wstawial wszedzie niemieckich nazw miast? Nadinterpretuje wynik glosowania i wszedzie je wciska, nie chce mi sie z nim szaprac, Dzieki.--Witkacy 19:11, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

A tak na marginesie, glosowanie nad uzywaniem nazwy, nie przebieglo zgodnie z regulami wikipedii. Chris byl organizatorem, sedzia i teraz robi za kata. Wykluczyl 12 glosow (pro-Gdansk) ktore by zmienily wynik glosowania. Nie istnieje zadna oficjalna regula na wikipedii ktora mowi ze uzytkownicy z mala liczna "editow" nie moga brac udzial w glosowaniach.--Witkacy 20:08, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Ponownie pododawal niemieckie nazwy, uzywa jakiegos bota, bo robi to w pare minut w 10-tkach artykulow, zobacz na jego historie. Robi co mu sie podoba...--Witkacy 23:21, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi. Thanks for your calm voice and understanding. The problem is tricky, and I think there is no solution that is accepted by all. The vote on the double naming for Gdansk/Danzig had more than a 2/3 majority (46 to 19), and the general double naming was also accepted with more than 2/3 (44 to 17). This is i think as clear of a vote as we can get on this issue. I can understand that polish people know these places only under the polish name, but internationally these polish names are not yet widely known. Even for big cities like gdansk the name is not yet universally known in the english speaking world (although this is changing). Personally, I also have no problem with german locations getting a polish name if there is a historical overlap. Could you talk with Witkacy again about this issue? Also, I would be quite curious what the text above means. Guess Witkacy doesn't like me. Thanks -- Chris 73 Talk 23:03, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * There have been votes on how to count votes before, with a proposed required number of edits anywhere between 0 and 200 edits. (somewhere on the admin talk pages). So far no concrete result has come out of this, and the majority voted to decide on a case by case basis according to the disgression of the admin. If you want to start a vote about this, I would be more than happy to participate (My goal: 200 edits before being able to vote). But it is absolutely common practice to ignore votes of voters with a very low edit count, and in the Gdansk vote, many voters had NO edits esides the vote pages. Of course, depending on the exact limits implemented, the exact outcome will change. When the vote was held a lot of admins looked at it, and no one disagreed with the counting of the votes. I believe Halibutts and Spacecadets edits to be malicious and only there to start trouble, hence I am reverting the edits. With the spelling error, the only one i could find with the latest change was the polish character in gdansk. Now, is Gdansk or Gdańsk the correct spelling in english? I think the first one, but I don't care either way. Again, thanks for your calm voice, it is good to have a neutral and polish admin here at the english Wiki. Let me know if you start a vote on the vote count -- Chris 73 Talk 09:40, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

Hero of Belarus FAC
Thanks for coming to that page. I wish to ask you what sections do you think were short in the article. I do need to beef up the bios a bit, and I think the lead is just fine. Thanks. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 15:17, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I made changes to it and I was wondering if you wish to peek at it again. I just want to be sure if all objections have been met. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 14:45, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Żywy brudas
Ciekawostka, na WP:AN3 toczą się teraz równolegle trzy postępowania przeciw Zivinbudasowi: tu, tu i tu. W tej ostatniej chodzi o "bliżej nieznanego anonima", ale admini rozważają range ban, co chyba jest niezłym pomysłem. Rzucisz okiem? Halibutt 15:14, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmmmm, chyba się pomyliłem. Już nie taki żywy. :) Halibutt

 * Mam dość. Na razie przygotowałem częściowy szkic RfA tutaj. Dołączysz? Halibutt 00:52, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

Polish September Campaign - Pics
In order of appearance - the following pics are problematic:

Clear problems: "bzura.jpg" no source, just stating it is in the public domain. I could not find this picture anywhere on the internet to veryfy public domain status - normally pictures without source or explanation for their public domain status are subject to deletion on wikipedia => unless source found, delete/replace. Same reasoning for "PZL P.11c.jpg" "Ac.corridor.jpg" "Ribbentrop Molotow.jpg" "Warsaw siege4.jpg" "Cios w Plecy Dziennik Chicagoski 19 Wrzesien 1939.jpg" (Poland prior 1994 without copyright notice?) "Warsaw siege1.jpg" "Warsaw siege3.jpg" "German Troops In Warsaw.jpg" -> as described under FAC (if Riefenstahl made this photo - it is certainly not public domain unless expressly released into public domain) "German Soviet.jpg" - the source points to the US Memorial History Museum with a copyright tag -> this is a clear copyvio

Less clear problem: "7TP.jpg": I do not know the copyright laws in Poland and cannot confirm the public domain statement to older polish fotographs published without a copyright notice - however with Poland being an EU member state since 2004, I just want to point to the fact that the 1995-EU-copyright-regulation should be enacted into law as of now (stating 70 years copyright duration for pictures made by professional photographers after their death - retroactive because Spain had long copyright durations) - however as I am not an expert here: no objection to the pic (same reasoning for "TKS.jpg", "Pzl37b.jpg", "Lublin Rxiii.jpg")

Conclusion: The pictures stated under "clear problems" should either be excluded from the article or the copyright status should be explained. Themanwithoutapast 18:53, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I explained the situation of some of those pics. Others still need attention. In some cases I simply did not remember what was the book I saw them in; in two cases the same pics were available through the Institute of National Remembrance, which is a State-owned institute and publishing the state-owned archives is one of it's statute aims (See Institute of National Remembrance Act, Chapter 6, Article 53, cases 2 and 4). If the institute published those pics without any copyright notice or disclaimer, then those should be treated as heritage of mankind, hence I assumed that the PD tag would be the best for them. However, if that's not the case, I could try to find those books and then change the license to PD-Poland.

 * Image:Warsaw siege1.jpg expanded info
 * Image:Warsaw siege4.jpg corrected the tag
 * Image:Pzl37b.jpg corrected the tag
 * Image:Lublin Rxiii.jpg - tag needs to be changed since the pic was published in 1937 and the non-retroactive Copyright Act was passed in 1952; pre-war Polish copyright laws should apply
 * Image:Bzura.jpg - expanded info
 * Image:Warsaw siege3.jpg - slightly expanded, though I can't tell whether it's enough or not.
 * -- Halibutt 20:01, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

I added my comment on the FAC page - supporting the article. As I pointed out there, I am not one of the copyright paranoids who delete every image that they just don't like, I was merely pointing out that some pictures should have sources/explanation for their public domain/fair use status. Themanwithoutapast 13:34, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

VfD: Nazi or German Occupation?
Może Cię zainteresuje: --Halibutt 19:24, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Opposing forces in the Polish September Campaign
With a little work, this could be your 11th FA. :) --mav 03:46, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

World War II
To a great extent, I think we're very different kinds of editors with very differing POVs, especially concerning history, but I feel that this could be turned into something very creative when it comes to improving World War II. Not that I think we should go at it all alone, but what I've seen of your work so far, gives me confidence that you're aware of issues of verifiability and neutrality. How would you feel about really concentrating on the article and trying to our best to make it the model summary of a very broad and extensive topic?

Peter Isotalo 12:46, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

Military history of Puerto Rico
Hello again! Some major improvements have been made to the article. I've also eliminated the link within the article as you suggested and added three more references to support the casualtiy numbers. I hope that you like it and that it receives your approval. Take care, Tony the Marine

I'm back again! At least I don't give up, right? Anyway I just wanted to inform you that I've added "inline references" to the article. To tell you the truth I was totally clueless about them but, user MAv showed me how it was done and bingo. I hope that you reconsider your minor objection, a weak support would be fine (smile). Anyway take care Tony the Marine

Gall Anonim
Moglbys cofnac wersje anonima ktory wandalizuje pl artykuly i ktory zmalal dzis ponownie 3rr na Erika Steinbach. Prosilem by strone zablokowano, pojawil sie pan admin ryszard ktory to zrobil, ale jakos mu sie nie chcialo cofnac wersji anona - co jest chyba normalne gdy ktos zlamie regule trzech cofniec. Dzieki--Witkacy 08:57, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Ratunku! Ja już nie wyrabiam :) Mógłbyś zerknąć na Talk:Erika_Steinbach? Kolejny rewizjonista... Halibutt 01:04, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

History of Poland
Hmmm... po prostu wykonałem część planu z sekcji "to do" na stronie WikiProject_History_of_Poland/Periodization. Trzeba będzie jeszcze podzielić następny okres na dwa i przestaną na siebie zachodzić. A rediry wszystkie (chyba) naprawiłem od razu. Halibutt 11:22, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

 * Kolejna galeria: Talk:Armia_Krajowa Halibutt 01:23, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * Wybacz, myślałem że już Ci pisałem w liście że mój komputer jest zepsuty. Mogę się logować jedynie sporadycznie, albo z komputera w pracy, jeśli mam chwilę wolną (nieczęsto ostatnio, zamknięcie numeru w poniedziałek), albo z komputera matki (która broni mi doń dostępu). Więc na wiki ostatnio jestem nieczęsto i zazwyczaj tylko na chwilę. Halibutt 20:02, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

The "missing" Count...
Hi Piotrus: Thanks for your note on my talk page. I have been online for a while now and I have to log off, and will be away this weekend. I have read and seen some Jewish English books about the subject, but it will have to wait till next week for me to bring them over. And yes, the Jewish Encyclopedia is extremly reliable. By the way, I do NOT subscribe to the view that either Moses or Jesus were "myths", why should I? Just because a bunch of professors had a few meetings and decided to debunk the Bible and God. You know that old line, that above a urinal someone had scratched the words "God is dead --- Nietzche" ...and just below it someone else scratched the retort "Nietzche is dead --- God". To believe that people emerged from monkeys is a far greater myth. But no need to go so far back in time. Just think about it, why would Catholic Poland and the mighty Catholic church want to keep alive a story of one of their own who abandoned them to become a "Zhid" of all things? Same reason the ancient Egyptians would remove any talk that the God of the Hebrews had screwed their Pharaoh. I will get back to the article soon I hope. Be well, and don't "believe" everything you read! There may be some professional Holocaust denial at work too within those tomes. IZAK 11:06, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Serfdom
You did a nice job on the Serfdom article. Falphin 21:41, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Bombing of Dresden in World War II
I do not think that you and I are miles apart. But
 * you must give sources for this article as it is very contentious.
 * I think it is better to keep the opening section short to stop PVO creep -- as we used to have "IT was a war crime" "Not it was not" "Yes it was so and so said so" etc. -- But I also think it is useful to keep the intros short so that the TOC is close to the top. Most of the articles I work on are like this, and a couple you may be familar with are Eastern Front (WWII) and Battle of Berlin. -- Philip Baird Shearer 17:24, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I will add the population numbers over the next few days when time and children alow. Working on an obscure English Civil War person (Robert Overton) at the moment :-) Philip Baird Shearer 18:32, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

I added you on the following page
User:Silversmith/The_Fabdabulous_Wikipedians_page you can remove yourself if you don't like it. Andries 22:07, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

User:Zivinbudas
I have now officially filed an arbitration request against User:Zivinbudas. Since you were one of the parties disputing his behaviour, please join the WP:RfA discussion. Halibutt 04:09, May 30, 2005 (UTC)

Znasz moze
Ano widzialem ze kupe dobrej roboty zrobil ;) Z Rydlem poszlo o Ignacy Domeyko i absurdalne problemy narodowosci. Looknij na dyskusje, podalem cytaty Domeyki - wielki polski patriota, a zaluja mu polskosci. Rydla problemy sa nieco smieszne, typu: Polscy nacjonalisci, staraja sie zrobic z Polaka patrioty.., Polaka!! ... :) Czasami odchodza ciekawe parodie na wikipedii: Zivinbudas znowu wyzywa nas tutaj wszystkich od nazistow, a sadzac po jego pogladach i wypowiedziach, sama Ewa Braun go mlekiem karmila ;)--Witkacy 16:20, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Co do medalu - chyba tylko ja dostałem. Zasada w sumie słuszna, bo przecież nie o to chodzi, byśmy tu sobie stworzyli klub wzajemnej adoracji (choć to takie przyjemne... :) ).
 * Co do języków i Babel - niewiele mi bozia dała, ale szczęście do języków mam. Tak naprawdę gdzieś tak od trzeciego nie ma już większych problemów, zwłaszcza jeśli są podobne. Z językami słowiańskimi jest jeszcze prościej. Tak naprawdę moja znajomość większości z nich jest bierna, a porozumiewam się czymś, co nazywam dialektem pansłowiańskim. To taka zabawna mieszanka wszystkiego ze zdecydowaną przewagą czeszczyzny, staropolszczyzny i ukraińsko-rosyjskiego. Dla wszystkich Słowian brzmi to jednako niegramatycznie, ale dla wszystkich (za wyjątkiem Bułgarów) jest zrozumiałe. Prowadzi też czasem do śmiesznych sytuacji: w Słowenii kiedyś permanentnie brali mnie za Czecha. Panuje tam przekonanie, że ich język podobny jest jedynie do czeskiego, i jeśli ktoś ich rozumie i coś-tam duka, to musi być Czechem :) . Co do samej tabelki - myślałem czy by jej nie umieścić na stronie użytkownika, ale strasznie by mi dużo miejsca zjadła, a i tak nie umieściłem tam wszystkich języków, które rozumiem :). Na przykład właśnie skończyłem roczny kurs nahuatl, ale nie jestem pewien czy byłbym w stanie zrozumieć post pisany w tym języku. Głównie dlatego, że ćwiczyłem się wyłącznie na szesnastowiecznych tekstach. Ale czy to ważne gdzie umieszczam tabelkę z językami?
 * Co do mentitle - zabij mnie, nie wiem. Nie pamiętam ani po co mi to było, ani do czego służyło. Przypuszczam że mogło chodzić o jakieś zaszłości z Nico czy jemu podobnymi, ale głowy nie dam. Tak czy siak - nigdy chyba nawet tego szablonu nie użyłem.
 * Na koniec, co do mapki - bałem się że to powiesz. Bo widzisz, legendę robi się równie długo co całą mapkę... a potem trzeba ją zmieniać przy każdej wersji... a ja leniwy jestem :)
 * --Halibutt 19:35, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Polish Wikipedians' notice board
zapraszam.--Witkacy 13:19, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee case opening
Requests for arbitration/Zivinbudas has been accepted and is now open. Please bring evidence to Requests for arbitration/Zivinbudas/Evidence. Thank you. -- sannse (talk) 10:03, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism in Poland
Please take a look at the article and the discussion. --Ttyre 19:26, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Instead of adding more material to this deeply flawed and POV section which, as I mentioned in discussion, consitutes 14.5% of the whole article, why not to move parts of this to their proper places History of the Jews in Poland, Abraham ben Abraham, Chmielnicki Uprising, History_of_Poland, etc. At this rate, one quarter of the Anti-Semitism article will be soon about Polish A-S. Whait for HKT's XIX, XX, and XXI centuries entries. Don't you see that by doing so the author makes A-S issue mostly Polish issue? --Ttyre 21:30, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The intention was not at all to make "A-S issue mostly Polish issue." I reacted to the previous state of the "Anti-Semitism in Poland" section, which only discussed how nice Poland has always been for Jews. I would love an expansion on "A-S" for all other countries, as well, but I don't really have the time to do that. Nor do I have the time to add information on "XIX, XX, and XXI centuries." I don't mind having no section at all as much as I mind a blatantly skewed one. If all of the "A-S by country" sections would be removed from the "A-S" article, then I would think it appropriate to remove the section on Poland as well (and incorporate it into History of the Jews in Poland). P.S. Your efforts are helping a lot in these content/neutrality disputes. Keep up the good work! HKT 02:15, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

HKT, I don't have any problem either with no A-S in Poland section or one with a couple of well-written and balanced sentences about both history of tolerance toward Jews and A-S in Poland pointing to History of the Jews in Poland and other relevant existing articles. Recently made changes in History of the Jews in Poland by, among others, User:Goodoldpolonius2 make the quality of this article steadly improving. --Ttyre 08:27, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

1632
so, you don't even list Eric in the SF section at the bottom of your main page, but you list RINGO!!?!?! For Shame!! ;-)  Hi Piotr.  Rick Boatright 22:28, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Piotr, sarcasm.  Rick Boatright 04:37, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Answer from Noel place
Yes I am feeling alright (well, exactly now not really after the football match we lost lol); I meant my own arguements where I given possible solutions and nobody of people in concern answered yet what solution out of those they would prefer. Understandably, for great number of people the current de facto situation where Polish names are added to every Lithuanian city even when they are completely unrelated and Lithuanian names are removed even from related towns is good. As Noel said in Talk:Goldap this is English wikipedia, there should be no place for such nationalism. DeirYassin 21:36, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Discution and vote about the Polish and Lithuanian city names
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_conventions/Vote_on_city_naming, tell your opinion on the matter DeirYassin 22:08, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I would like your comments on my rough proposal in Naming conventions/Vote on city naming. Balcer 00:37, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Re: Mistake?
The blanking was completely unintended. I had been trying to fix some spelling errors in Polish-Soviet War of 1920 (see here), but I'm not quite sure what happened. Thank you for alerting me. Sango 123  16:29, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

Welcome
Widzialem ze wstawiasz powitania, moze byc dolaczyl WP:WNBP, link do polskiej kanciapy do powitan polskich uzytkownikow? Ja rowniez co jakis czas wstawiam linka gdy widze kogos nowego, za jakis czas sie rozkreci--Witkacy 21:41, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wycieczka
Hmmm... Nie, nigdy tam nie byłem, choć planuję w te wakacje wyskoczyć do Wilna, Rygi i Tallina. Ale raczej nie autokarem, bo pałam prawdziwą nienawiścią do wycieczek autokarowych. Jeśli będę jechał, to raczej stopem i pewnie jakoś w październiku. Masz ochotę? Halibutt 07:54, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

User:Halibutt
You're accusing me of disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point by blocking a user for a 3RR violation? Don't be ridiculous. (I must admit, I am intrigued as to what "point" exactly you think I'm trying to prove.) Proteus (Talk) 22:22, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And as for your last unblock reason: I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. I don't have to prove that the 3RR applies to a particular user. If he feels he has immunity, he can try to prove it to me. Otherwise he stays blocked. (You might also try re-reading the blocking policy, as you seem to be new to this. You can remove blocks if you feel they violated policy, but removing them because you feel they would be unhelpful or you think they were a bit harsh is not really the done thing. As the blocking admin I'm the one who makes that decision.) Proteus (Talk) 22:29, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Please don't unblock Halibutt. He is clearly disrupting Wikipedia with his unsupported changes. This is entirely a WP:POINT action, and he needs to knock it off. If Proteus wasn't blocking him, I would be. Your unblocking is suspect, and I am not hesitant to suggest it has to do with nationality. RickK 23:16, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, please. The vote was clear, and only those attempting to circumvent it can possibly think otherwise.  Halibutt is pushing an agenda and trying to get around a clear vote.  RickK 23:36, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

You honestly don't think Halibutt has an agenda? He's trying to subvert the vote on Polish city naming by trying to apply it whenever he possibly can, to all unacceptable places, so that people will say, "Let's do away with the vote and only use Gdansk and Polish names in all case." RickK 19:07, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

Animation cats
You removed the "Animated television series"-cat from the Noir (Anime) article. While this in itself is understandable, it makes it impossible to find Noir from there. This is odd because Noir 'is' an animated television series. Adding "Anime"-cat as a subcat of "Animated television series"-cat is not possible, since a lot of anime were released as OVAs or as full feature movies. I'd appreciate your thoughts on a solution to this problem. Bye, Shinobu 22:48, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a solution would be to make both anime and animated tv series a subcategory to sth more general like 'Category:Animation' ? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:51, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Note - it is already like this. Shouldn't this be sufficient? Anybody interested can go 'up a level' to find anime or vice versa. Logic is: some anime are animated tv series but not all, so after a consideration I'd say my removal of this cat was wrong, but then it should be carefuly applied to many animes (all that fit that cat). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 22:54, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'll think on this for a while. In any case, I agree with you that if we cat Noir as "Animated television series", and we should decide to do this with other anime as well, we have to be careful not to accidentally miscat something as "Animated television series" when in fact it is not. Thanks for your insights, Shinobu 23:04, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Collaboration?
I rencently came across the Polish collaberation project and was very disapointed by two developments there. The sole use of Polish on the English encyclopedia, and discussing other users in a language they don't understand. I'd like you to read my post under English please. Please take action within 24hrs. -JCarriker 00:35, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * The difference is it is not a user page, its a public space. Many of us read talk pages, but ultimately we don't have the right to know what's being said that's different on a public space. If Lithuanian and Russian is being used in public spaces on en.wikipedia then the same applies for them that does for Polish. I have no problem with Polish being spoken on user pages, or in the instance someone can't speak English, but that's not the case here. Quebec and Russia use Enlgish on their collaborations, Poland should too. Many people won't take kindly to not being able to read a public space on thier language's wikipedia, and I don't see that's in your projects interest. The fact that users who don't speak Polish are being talked about will only make matters worse, especially since it's a collaboration project. Online translators help and I've found a fairly good one for Polish. Online traslaors are only good for help, however: thier vocabulary is limited, they don't recognize false cognates, they screw up verb tenses— ultimately a human touch is needed. I strongly urge someone to translate the piece about the user, I consider the response to my request action, so I'll wait longer than the intial 24hrs. I won't wait forever, if its not translated I have an ethical obligation to notify the users being discussed. If it is translated, meaning they can understand it, then they can find it themselves. -JCarriker 22:47, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll accept that. BTW, I had a postive encounter with user User:SylwiaS I think she (I think she's a she, my apologies if male) has potential here. :) I would think a request to Witkacy, from you would have more weight than one from me and possibly be better reccieved. -JCarriker 23:01, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

Kennan
I think I've resolved your objection at Featured article candidates/George F. Kennan. Let me know, since time for the nomination seems to be running out. Thanks. JBurnham 02:04, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Featured Article Removal Candidates
I've removed your FARC nominated candidates. The rules have been changed and the new rules are put up on that page. This was mentioned in Village pump (policy) and (news) and went into effect on June 4. Please list new candidates only after following the new steps. This was done to prevent whimsical nominations. =Nichalp (Talk)= 07:56, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

 * 1) Sorry about the Aryan Invasion Theory, my mistake. 2) "allowing bad article to stay and acting contrary to the FARC spirit". No, I am not in the habit of keeping bad articles. I removed the nominations because the rules had changed. You were informed so that you could list your complete objections on the article talk page, as you had reviewed the page. I had also made a remark on the removal page so as not to confuse those who already voted. regards, =Nichalp (Talk)= 10:22, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Tlumaczenie
Ah wiesz, nie chce mi sie szczerze mowiac. Przez ostatnie wydarzenia jestem ciety na wszystkich bez orzelka na paszporcie. Nie chodzi mi tu o JCarriker bo jemu niema co zarzucic, poza tym ze jako pierwszy nie Polak w naszej kanciapie ... zamiast z kwiatami przyszedl z klopotami :)

Najwyrazniej osoby ktore tam byly wymienione sa zainteresowane tym co o nich pisalismy, i nie widze powodu bym sie z ich powodu pocil z tlumaczeniem.

A co do dobrej woli - przedczorajszy/wczorajszy ban pokazal dobra wole innych... i przy okazji ich oblude.--Witkacy 09:41, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Ciolek sie na Ciebie skarzy looknij: --Witkacy 20:05, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Grand Duchy of Lithuania
You've reverted 4 times. You ought to bring it up on WP:ANI instead of continuing. RickK 20:40, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

 * I concur. Contrary to your description on my talk page, you're involved in a content dispute, not vandalism. (If you don't agree, please read that page and tell me which of the "Types of vandalism" you claim this is - noting that both "stubbornness" and "NPOV violations" don't count.) If I hadn't gotten a favourable impression from the way you acted in the recent German-city naming mess, I would definitely handle this as a 3RR violation. Noel (talk) 18:51, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I am very well aware that he is an obnoxious jerk whom I completely agree deserves a complete ban from Wikipedia - if you will note, I have in the past protected many pages from him, and later placed a lengthy range-block on his entire ISP. However, getting into a revert war with him is not the way to handle him - and what he is doing is not vandalism. Noel (talk) 19:37, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Prawa autorskie?
Czy możesz rzucić okiem na sprawę dyskutowaną pod User talk:Witkacy. Witkacy znalazł i używa fajne źródło angielskich tekstów o polskich sprawach na stronach www.poland.gov.pl. Niestety mam wątpliwości czy zasady opisujące prawa autorskie pozwalają na użycie tego materiału w Wikipedii. Balcer 15:13, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Kennan references
A references section has been added in addition to the notes. JBurnham 21:39, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

ORP Sokół
Wywieszona flaga z kosciotrupem wskazuje na to ze kogos zatopil, niemieckie swastyki, ze jakis niemiecki statek. Polska flaga z orzelkiem (marynarki) wisi troche bardziej z tylu na kijku (zakladam metalowym) - ORP Sokol zdecydowanie nie bil sie po zlej stronie ;)--Witkacy 09:14, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Piotrus, istnieje mozliwosc sprawdzenia ilosci osob odwiedzajacych poszczegolny artykul w danym dniu?--Witkacy 11:05, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Czy nie czas cos zrobic przeciw takim |takim wypowiedziom? Moze powinnismy je wszystkie gdzies zbierac, a rownoczesnie za kazdym razem prostestowac na stronie adminow? Ja jestem za tym by obgadac ten problem w polskiej kanciapie i wspolnie cos wobec takich wypowiedzi ustanowic. Co o tym sadzisz?--Witkacy 16:08, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Nie, nie chodzi o nazwe Kijowa, tylko o jego wypowiedzi na temat polskich nacjonalistow. Mozna przeciez jak ludzie dyskutowac na ten temat, ale owy osobnik zaraz sie zaczal pluc i wyzywac Polakow od nacjonalistow. To czlonek ArbCom - nie dziwne wiec ze skoro ludzie ktorzy powinni tu dawac przyklad na innych, w taki sposob postepuja, ze potem kazdy beton nie majac argumentow zaczyna sie wyzywac--Witkacy 16:23, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Dokladnie, wspolne dzialanie to polowa sukcesu. Dlatego poroponuje to obgadac, ustalic co dokladnie bedziemy w takich sytuacjach robic i wspolnie uczyc takich madrali szacunku.--Witkacy 16:35, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

JCarrera?
Interesting. SylviaS uses JCarriker. Is this a typo or are you trying to translate my name into Polish? If you are it doesn't look right to me, but then again in an all text enviroment you don't know how it said— I'm willing to help with that, if desired. -JCarriker 19:07, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * No, Sylvia uses JCarriker. It was your post that uses JCarrera. I'm not talking about meaning I talking changing spelling to better fit a language. My surname works fine with Spanish and French, with only mild changes. Removing the second r in my name to avoid a trilled r in Spanish would be an exaple of what I'm taling about (Though I like trilled r's so I don't remove it.) I thought you might have done that on the talk page, but I given your response I see its a typo. Thanks anyway. -JCarriker 19:16, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

VM
Byłem szybszy :) Peer review/Virtuti Militari/archive1 Halibutt 20:34, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Respect
I just thought I stop by to say that appreciate your attempts to cool off some heads Wikipedia_talk:Polish_Wikipedians%27_notice_board and other talk and user:talk pages. I made similar calls trying to convince the editors upset by recent DE/PL and PL/LT name conflicts, as well as by the Russian name in Kiev article, to help improve the city history sections instead of making a WP:Point. I think the project Naming conventions/Vote on city naming may help resolve such problems in the future and I will also try to come up with some ideas there. Thanks again! Do widzenia, -Irpen 00:14, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * Could you please take a look and comment at a couple of proposed revisions to your recent summary you wrote for the intro to Kiev article at Talk:Kiev. If you don't disagree with proposed changed, I will make them into the article itself. Thanks, -Irpen 18:20, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. Re the proposal, I will look at it in detail and see if I have some propositions on it. I will not be able to do it within several hours, but I am very interested. I will be honored to co-sign it. Cheers, -Irpen 20:19, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

Medal_of_Honor
I was wondering if the lead I have created is long enough. There is only so much we can talk about Medals in the intro. Though, personally, I wish to rewrite to whole article. I probably wish to talk it over with a few folks, but I think it needs to have a huge make-over. Also, if the article is removed from it's FA status, can it reapply for the status? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 03:36, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Atomic physics
I noticed you added some nuclear physics articles to the atomic physics category, e.g.. Please don't do that. -- Tim Starling 07:52, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm not condemning you, I'm politely asking you not to do it again. And you're not a new contributor. I figure someone as committed as you can handle occasionally being told to check your facts without being scared away. -- Tim Starling 15:39, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Voting proposal
Thanks for the effort in a voting proposal. Most of what you say sounds good to me, although some points may be difficult to fix precisely. Since I was offline for the last few days, I am not quite up to date yet, but I am looking forward for your proposal. I also think it should include some sort of enforcement option (i.e. 3RR exclusion or such as on the Gdansk vote), because otherwise non-consensus editors just have us jump around in circles. Anyway, looking forward for your proposal. -- Chris 73 Talk 16:50, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

How to deal with Poles
Czołem. Wpadliśmy ostatnio na pomysł, by takie przypadki jak te, na podstawie których powstała słynna już strona How to deal with Poles notować i próbować wyjaśniać. Pomyślałem, że lepiej takie sprawy trzymać osobno i próbować załatwić polubownie, acz kolektywnie, bez konieczności odwoływania się do arbitrażu czy RfC. Stąd pomysł na Polish Wikipedians' notice board/Black Book. Co myślisz? Halibutt 00:07, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

Czary Mary
Albo mam jakies zwidy albo ten tekst: Appreciation: Austria's Franz König dies at 98 Last remaining cardinal named by John XXIII was Vatican II luminary By JOHN L. ALLEN JR. Rome http://natcath.org/NCR_Online/archives2/2004a/032604/032604k.php pojawia sie we wszystkich artykulach biskupow krakowskich, chodz nie jest ani wstawiony w tekst ani do template. Coz to za cudenko? Template:Bishop of Kraków, np Eugeniusz Baziak--Witkacy 23:13, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Juz znikl, jednak czary mary :)--Witkacy 23:18, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You're Welcome
And the secrets for accessing the WikiEN-L list can be found at Mailing lists -- not only how to subscribe, but how to access the archives. -- llywrch 00:23, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Survey guidelines
Thank you very much for your invitation. I feel honoured that - despite the Gdansk mess - you would like me to comment. Currently, I am on a slow modem only internet access, but I will give a feedback on Friday, when I have a better connection and more time. But a quick glance looks very promising. More on Friday -- Chris 73 Talk 07:02, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

More bad faith
I was hoping that things were improving but I view Logologist recent edit as hostile. It seems logical, that when someone knows that people that don't understand a language are involved in a particular discussion and then that someone makes a post about that subject in a langauge not understood by all of the people involved in the discussion, that they don't want people to know what's beig said. I know enough about lanagues for the wors angielskiego to catch my attention so I translated it sentence by sentence, which gets better results than trying to translate entire posts at a time, and found comprehended enough to know the subject matter. I would however like a human translation of what he has said. Thanks. -JCarriker 10:29, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * I provided the translation of the two sentences that spooked User:JCarriker. I certainly don't see anything offensive in them, and they are not directed at any particular user.  Still, these paranoid reactions to comments in Polish by non-Polish users of Wikipedia are depressing.  What is so disturbing to people about a few sentences in a language they cannot understand? Anyway, I am sad to say that Wikipedia talk:Polish Wikipedians' notice board is rapidly becoming a kind of small hell. Could we not move the discussions in Polish to some other page, where they will not offend other users? Balcer 14:38, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your translation work Balcer, but I do not appreciate being called paranoid. Logolist was refering to a topic I brought up, logolist knows I don't speak Polish, yet logolist posted a response about a topic I brought up in Polish. If logolist wanted me to know what was being said he would have posted in English or provided a translation and he did not. That sir is fact, not paranoia. Excluding someone already discussing a topic, is not only rude, but in bad faith. I don't go around demanding translations of texts on talk pages, but I do insist on English being used in public spaces on the English wikipedia. As for describing people as paranoid, such statements are largely, viewed as personal attacks, I would urge caution in making such statemnets in the future, you will find not all wikipedians are as understanding as I. - JCarriker 16:08, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * I apologize for calling User:JCarriker paranoid. Balcer 16:24, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I will no longer be going out of my way to help the Polish community here. I'm tired of working in a simi-hostile enviorment. I'll still be available for individual Polish friends if they need me, or invite me to a page. Good luck. -JCarriker 10:11, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * If your still on line meet me here #en.Wikipedia (irc://irc.freenode.net/en.wikipedia). Type in my nick to get my attention. -JCarriker 11:03, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * Recent comments and reactions on the talk page made me realize that there are deeper issues than the use of Polish in play here. Ultimately it is the balance of power between cosmopolitan Poles and nationalist Poles on wikipedia, both with equal love for Poland, who are going to decide whether Polish related topics are going to take a leadership role as one of the best covered and respected topics in wikipedia or be regarded as a POV backwater avoided by most contributors. I sympathize with this because my culture (Southern) has a similar conflict between those who want to include and those who want to exclude. I'd be happy to return, especially if a number of Polish wikipedians encouraged me to, but so long as a vocal and hostile plurality remains unchallenged (your efforts recognized and appreciated of course), by most Polish users not only are people going to be ran off Polish related topics— this minority of Polish contributors are going to continue to spread the emerging false stereotype that all Polish contributors are nationalists bent on inserting there POV. It is up to you, and users like SylwiaS and Balcer to solve the problem, anything coming from a non-Pole like me is only going to be discounted, and as such my energies are better use elsewhere— for now. Good luck and Gods speed. -JCarriker 12:23, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Anschluss comment from 10th June
Roul preliminary deleted the Anschluss article on the FAC-page, because your objections from June 10th have allegedly not been addressed. Would be nice if you look at the article again and make a short comment on its FAC page. Thx. Themanwithoutapast 01:51, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

hallo from uwe
hallo Piotr - may I ask you to transport some more of the text and images of Antarctic krill into your fine country - or ask somebody - (I was there and have nice and fun colleagues in Poland) - good luck Uwe Kils 15:01, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

Gdansk/Danzig, again
Hey - Actually, I think the idea of using "Gdansk" for articles centered on the PLC, while using "Danzig" for articles focusing specifically on the city, or on Europe more broadly, in the 1466-1793 period, actually makes a lot of sense. I had actually thought that this was allowed by the results of the voting, which said that for "specifically Polish" topics in any period, the Polish name could be used. So that's fine with me as a compromise. In terms of historical correctness - fair enough. I have generally been more concerned with discerning what typical English usage is, so as to determine the "most common name" today for the city between 1466 and 1793. I think that this is probably "Danzig," but the usage is split, and I'm happy to have some sort of compromise, so long as we can reasonably determine what the boundaries are. john k 19:48, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Not voting again! :-/
Hi! I appreciate your putting some effort into improving wikipedia policy, that's great!

But... (you knew there was a "but" coming, right?) this particular case has been chewed over hundreds of times by now, and it turns out that voting on wikipedia is a Really Really Really Really Really Really bad idea.

So while survey guidelines could use an overhaul, you might want to try overhauling them in the opposite direction, namely: stressing that we're not doing votes here, and that the idea is to find out if consensus has been reached, and/or what issues still need to be discussed.

Sorry to cause you more work like this, but you think you can give it a shot?

Kim Bruning 20:06, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey, I managed to enforce Ignore all rules once, how hard can this get? (famous last words).
 * Show me some history/diffs which show the problem? Kim Bruning 11:22, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

needs attention (history of Poland)
I think Roman Catholicism's links with political authorities (Poland) needs attention! Fjl 07:48, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Peoples
Pardon my quirckiness, but I guess I'm somewhat of a "purist"; the Atlantic Charter uses the term "peoples" three times; (1) "freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned; (2) "right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live"; (3) "lighten for peace-loving peoples the crushing burden of armaments". IMO, using the exact terminology of the source document somewhat reduces the confusion when contentions arise that an interpretation of the source is faulty.  "Peoples", in its plural form, refers to the people of Poland, the Czech people, the Solvak people, etc., collectively referred to as "peoples". Nobs01 16:22, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Technically you're correct, the word is a plural form in itself, and it does sound somewhat awkward in English, but the meaning is apparant that it speaks of a wider classification of "various people".  Nobs01 16:44, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Request for deletion
Piotrus, can you please delete the article Statue of Kalisz? (I made a typo) - thanks! --Ttyre 02:34, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This Could Be You
I don't know what your talking about! Yo Mama 5000

I'm a Polish-American. What is it like in Poland right now?Yo Mama 5000 21:50, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Guidelines
Hi Piotrus. Sorry to hear that your proposal is currently not moving forward. It would be good to have at least an edit count recommendation. BTW, voting on Meta Wiki now requires 400 edits in one namespace. Unfortunately, I cannot be of much help, since my workload outside of Wikipedia varies widely, and leaves me with much less time for Wikipedia than I would have liked. I am happy to give inputs, but I don't have the time for a major task that requires daily attention. Sorry again about that! Also, it seems the gdansk issue has calmed down at least for now. Hopefully it stays that way. Happy editing -- Chris 73 Talk 10:06, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Again?
I have been informed that yet another "problem user" is the topic of a Polish language discussion on the pl collaboration, since I removed Polish topics from my watchlist and the alleged discussion is in a langauge I don;t understadn I have not confirmed it. Please tell me that after all of the discussion and the removal of the intial "problem user" discussion, that this is not happining again. I've already recieved several e-mails about it, and I don't usually get alot of e-mail from other wikipedians. -JCarriker 17:29, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe the issue had something to do with some Belorussian and Witkacy. I ask out of concern, I have no intention of doing other peoples dirty work for them, I don't even like having to do my own dirty work muchless that of others, and I'm certain the e-mailers knew of my efforts and didn't support them publicly, therefore I have no firm commitment to them. I don't know what's going on the collabe and I've removed myself from the situation, I'd urge you to check again just to make sure since talking about problem users on a collaboration would be controversial even if it were in English. -JCarriker 18:47, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * I won't loose any sleep over it, as I intimated in my previous comments I really don't care to be envolved with the issue, just passing along information to you and let you do as you see fit. -JCarriker 19:51, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

On my participation on English Wikipedia
I'm an admin on Belarusan Wikipedia (so far, everything has been going very smoothly over there, we did not have almost any problems of any kind), and in our Belarusian WP I really enjoy contributing articles on natural science and technology, especially on computers, physics, astronomy and aerospace. What is especially important is that those articles very rarely become an object of conflict or revert wars. This is because it's hard science and we deal with hard facts. I wish I could work on similar articles in English Wikipedia, but there are really smart people working on those topics and they've already have wonderful articles, and therefore in 99.9% of the cases I simply had nothing to add.

So I started thinking, what are the areas then in which I could contribute something valuable to the English Wikipedia? After browsing around a little bit I concluded that Belarusian history pages (or, actually, most Belarus topics) are grossly under-represented here or presented in a twisted fashion from the imperial Russian or Polish perspective (not to say POV). I've tried to correct the bias and fix the factual errors, but most of the time my edits were reverted by Polish and Russian "watchdogs." Finally, I decided that I have enough of that. It's a waste of time. Today, feeling sorry for my lack of judgment, feeling sorry for my wasted time, feeling disgusted by some Wikipedians, I'm simply leaving English Wikipedia, with a possible exception that I'll be occasionally inserting interwiki links.

So now it's all back to "normal." Let Polish people call Ignacy Hryniewiecki and Jan Karol Chodkiewicz Poles. They can also call me a Pole, because I'm definitely as much Polish then, as both of those men. The Russians can have their fun too. Let them use Russian spellings for Usiaslau and Rahneda and Polatsak and any other Belarusan person or place which they want to present through a Russian imperialistic perspective and in Russian spelling. They can call me a Russian too. Enjoy it. Whohoo! I feel like it's 1905, not 2005.

There is a great "Polish" poet Czeslaw Milosz, a Nobel prize winner, who considered himself a citizen of our Great Duchy of Lithuania. I read his wonderful brilliant book Native Realm (Rodzinna Europa) several years ago and I was really surprised what he says there about Belarusians. He said something like this (sorry, the book is in Minsk, so I can't give a precise quote): I don't really understand how Belarusians survived and how they can survive, living always between the two big hammers, the Russian hammer and the Polish hammer.

I always found this quote a bit bizarre. I could only understand the Russian part, it was obvious what he meant. But Polish? I never understood that until now. And now after attempting to fix some historical mistakes on such articles as Battle of Orsha, Felix Dzerzhinsky, Ignacy Hryniewiecki, Jan Karol Chodkiewicz, Tadeusz Kosciuszko, Adam Mickiewicz, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, I suddenly got a few powerful blows in my head from the Polish hammer. And I finally felt on my own head what Czeslaw Milosz really meant. Thank you, Czeslaw. And bye-bye, English Wikipedia.

Let Russians and Poles have their fun.

--rydel 11:43, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Jezyk
Ok nie bede juz tam pisal po polsku, chodz uwazam ze ta osoba przesadza - szczegolnie w kontekscie dyskusji na mailinglist z ktorej wynika ze niema zadnego prawa na wikipedii ktore by to zabranialo. Rowniez w kontekscie do osob o ktorych napisalem, dla ktorych jak sadze latwo zrozumiec nasz jezyk. Wychodzi na to ze jakas grupka ludzi chodz zapewne nie chce uczestniczyc w dyskusjach, chce wiedziec o czym piszemy :)--Witkacy 13:20, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Piotrus/Archive 4


text:
Josephine Butler College, Durham

Josephine Butler College is a constituent college of Durham University. The college was opened in 2006. It is named after Josephine Elizabeth Butler, a 19th-century feminist and social reformer who had a significant role in improving women's public health and education in England. Butler's father was the cousin of the 2nd Earl Grey, after whom Grey College, Durham is named.

The college is a fully self-catered college of the university, and is comparatively new in relation to other existing Durham undergraduate colleges. All rooms in the college are en-suite. It is the one of the university's first fully self-catered constituent college in Durham. The college bar is the largest of all the college bars in Durham. The college also has extensive leisure facilities including a library, study spaces, sports hall, outdoor tennis court and music room. It is located within the Howlands Farm site along South Road, next to Stephenson College, Durham.

History
Josephine Butler College was opened in 2006. It became the first new college at a British university in 25 years, and the first completely new college to open in Durham itself since the 1970s.

Shield and motto
The college arms are blazoned as "Gules on a chevron Or charged with a Cross formy, with cotises invected, between in chief two lions Argent and in base an open book charged with two covered cups". The arms represent in large the heritage of Josephine Butler, with the lion argent being a symbol of the Grey family. The covered cups on the pages of the books are a heraldic symbol of the Butler family.

The college's motto is "Comme je trouve", which can be translated to "as I find" and is intended to mean "we take life as we find it and make of it the best we can".

Howlands Building
The Howlands building is shared with Josephine Butler's neighbouring college, Stephenson College. It contains the college gym, laundry and music room. A large multi-purpose hall is also contained in the building that is used to host formal dinners and paves the way for some sports activities, where badminton and table tennis clubs practice.

Butler Building
The Butler building acts as the main social building of the college and mainly contains the college bar and some other rooms such as the college offices, porters lodge and reception, in addition to the Junior Common Room (JCR), the Middle Common Room (MCR), TV room, college library lounge, IT suite, and study spaces.

Accommodation Blocks and the Mound

Josephine Butler is built around a grass-covered hill called "the Mound", which stands between it and Stephenson College. The college has four separate self-contained accommodation blocks; Kirknewton, Dilston, Milfield, Wooler, as well as a small fifth block called Elm. Each building is divided up into 6 bed-roomed flats, with en-suite facilities. The main four accommodation blocks are all named after locations related to Josephine Butler's life: she was born in Milfield, spent a lot of her early life in Dilston, died in Wooler and is buried in Kirknewton. The buildings of Dilston, Milfield and Wooler are used to house mainly first year undergraduate students, whilst Kirknewton is used for returners and post-graduate students.

In July 2017, Josephine Butler College was ranked as the fourth-best student hall in the UK, based on an analysis of over 10,000 student and graduate reviews.

Student life
Undergraduate and postgraduate students are respectively members of the college's Junior Common Room (JCR) and Middle Common Room (MCR). A committee of students elected from JCR and MCR are elected annually to organise charity fundraisers, campaigning for causes, events, and volunteering initiatives.

Societies
While university-wide student associations and societies are associated with the Durham Students' Union, the JCR governs the many student societies of the college.

Suffragette Theatre Company (STC), formerly known as the Society of Theatrical Arts at Butler (STAB), is the drama society for Josephine Butler College. The Theatre Company accepts members from in and outside of the college, and focuses on politically and socially charged productions, such as its production of 'The Tempest' at the Gala Theatre in June 2019. The society is primarily known in college for its formal that is held in Michaelmas term every year, involving a Murder Mystery style format.

Sports
Josephine Butler College also has an extensive array of sports open to its students. Some of the sports available include: football, rugby, badminton, boxing, running, rowing, lacrosse, basketball, dance etc., as well as more varied activities such as cheerleading, ultimate frisbee, pool, and darts. Due to the collegiate system at Durham, there are over 700 different sports teams in the university, including Team Durham. Within Butler College itself, there are over 40 teams and 20 sports available. Most sports also have multiple teams to cater for people of differing abilities, allowing complete beginners to pick up a new sports whilst also enabling experienced athletes to strive for success.

Josephine Butler College Cricket Club (JBCCC) is the college's cricket team. As of 2018 the club consists of two outdoor sides, the A team and the Development team, and two indoor teams, an A and B team. Indoor cricket is played across the Epiphany term, and in the Easter term outdoor T20 cricket is played. The club won back to back indoor titles in 2014 and 2015. In 2018 they reached the final of the outdoor T20 competition. In the same year a 24-hour charity cricket match was held in the Howlands, which raised over £700 for the Glenn McGrath Foundation.

Butler College Boat Club (BCBC) is the boat club of Josephine Butler College at Durham University. The club is responsible for hosting its own inter-collegiate head race, Butler Head. In 2015, a BCBC VIII beat 3 other boats including the University of Leeds to get to the final of Durham Regatta. The biggest success came to the boat club in the 2016 Durham Regatta season where the 2015 BCBC VIII took the title of Durham Regatta by winning the Alderman Thurlow Trophy.

Principals
The head of college is titled the Principal. Professor Adrian Simpson was the Principal from the college's foundation in 2006, announcing in 2022 that he was stepping down to take on the role of Principal at St Mary's College, Durham. During periods of the Principal's absence, the Vice-Principal takes on the role of Acting Principal. Karen Langdon was Acting Principal for the 2022-23 academic year. In January 2023, it was announced that Professor Gillian Hampden-Thompson would succeed Professor Simpson as Principal of Josephine Butler College a post that she started on July 1st 2023.

Sports

 * Claudia MacDonald, England international rugby union player

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Josephine Butler College, Durham


text:
Malapterurus electricus

Malapterurus electricus is a thickset fish with six mouth barbels and a single fin on its back, just anterior to the rounded tail fin. It is brownish or grayish, irregularly spotted with black, and attains a length and weight of about 1.2 metres and 23 kg M. electricus is capable of generating and controlling the discharge of up to 450 volts of electricity. It uses its power to defend itself and to capture prey.

Distribution
In Africa, it occurs in the Nile and tropical Africa (exclusive of Lake Victoria), Lake Turkana, Lake Chad and Senegal basins.

Biology
Occurs among rock favors standing water. Active at night, feeding mainly on fish stunned by electric shocks. The electric organ, capable of discharging 300-400 V, is derived from pectoral muscle and surrounds almost the entire body. It is used both for prey capture and defense.

Life history
This is an Old World catfish. It is reputed that Doctors in ancient Egypt used shocks from the Electric Catfish to reduce the pain of arthritis. This trait is still used today in some areas. It also has the earliest reference of them as hieroglyphics on the walls of ancient Egyptian tombs some 5,000 years ago.

Economy
Malapterurus electricus is eaten as food in parts of Africa. Being a food fish, M. electricus is also encountered in the pet trade as an aquarium fish.

The electric organs of Malapterurus have been used in studies of neuronal metabolism, axonal transport.

Reproduction
In their natural habitat they form pairs and lay their eggs in excavated cavities or holes. The male takes the eggs into his mouth. There have been rumours that they are mouth brooders. It is also unknown how the fry is immune to the electric shocks by the parents.

In the aquarium
Malapterurus electricus is sometimes encountered in aquarium supply stores. It can reach a maximum length of over 1 meter in the wild, but has an average size of 12 inches in the aquarium. It is quite hardy and greedily accepts most foods, although some experimentation may be required to find the best food. The only other animals that are compatible with this species are snails, which they will ignore. A minimum aquarium size of 55 USgal is required, with bogwood or pieces of PVC pipe. They are active burrowers and will often remove the gravel from under their favorite hiding spot. A minimum temperature of 75 F is necessary. It is illegal to possess any species of electric catfish for personal or commercial use in Florida.

title: Malapterurus electricus


text:
July 20 (Eastern Orthodox liturgics)

July 19 - Eastern Orthodox Church calendar - July 21

All fixed commemorations below are celebrated on August 2 by Old Calendar.

For July 20th, Orthodox Churches on the Old Calendar commemorate the Saints listed on July 7.

Saints

 * Holy and glorious Prophet Elijah the Thesbite, whose fiery ascent as it were into the Heavens we celebrate (9th century BC)
 * Saint Flavianus II of Antioch, Patriarch and Confessor (512)
 * Saint Elias I of Jerusalem, Patriarch and Confessor (518)

Pre-Schism Western saints

 * Saint Rheticus (Rheticius, Rhetice), a Gallo-Roman who became Bishop of Autun in France (334)
 * Saint Aurelius of Carthage, Bishop of Carthage in North Africa (429)
 * Saint Severa of St Gemma, Abbess of St Gemma (later Sainte-Sevère) in Villeneuve near Bourges, the sister of St Modoald, Bishop of Trier (c. 680)
 * Saint Wulmar of Boulogne (Ulmar, Ulmer, Vilmarus, Volmar), founder of the monastery of Samer near Boulogne, later called Saint-Vulmaire (689)
 * Saint Severa of Oehren, Abbess of Oehren near Trier in Germany (c. 750)
 * Saint Ansegisus, a monk at Fontenelle Abbey in France at the age of eighteen, he later restored several monasteries (c. 833)
 * Hieromartyr Paul the Deacon of Córdoba (851)
 * Saint Ethelwida (Ealhswith, Elswith), widow of King Alfred the Great (902)

Post-Schism Orthodox saints

 * Martyr Salome of Jerusalem and Kartli, who suffered under the Persians (13th century)
 * Saint Abramius of Galich, near Chukhloma Lake, disciple of Saint Sergius of Radonezh (1375)
 * Saint Elias (Chavchavadze) the Righteous of Georgia (1907)

New martyrs and confessors

 * New Hieromartyr Constantine Slovtsov, Priests (1918)
 * New Martyrs Lydia, with soldiers Alexei and Cyril, near Ufa (1928)
 * New Hieromartyrs at Voronezh (1930):
 * Archimandrite Tikhon (Krechkov);
 * Hieromonks George (Pozharov) and Cosmas (Vyaznikov);
 * Priests John Steblin-Kamensky, Sergius Gortinsky, Theodore Yakovlev, Alexander Arkhangelsky, and George Nikitin;
 * Martyrs Euthymius Grebenshchikov and Peter Vyaznikov.

 * New Hieromartyr Alexis Znamensky, Priest (1938)
 * New Hieromartyr Theodore Abrosimov (1941)
 * New Martyrs of Paris:
 * Archpriest Alexis Medvedkov, of Ugine, France (1934);
 * Elias Fondaminsky (1942);
 * Priest Demetrius Klepinine (1944);
 * George Skobtsov (1944); and
 * Nun Maria (Skobtsova) (1945)

Other commemorations

 * Icon of the Mother of God "Chukhloma" from Galich (Galich-Chukhlomsk - "Tenderness") (1350)   (see also: May 28, August 15)
 * Icon of the Mother of God "Orshansk" (1631)  (see also: September 5)
 * Icon of the Mother of God "Abalatsk" ("Sign") (1637)  (see also: November 27)
 * Uncovering of the relics (1649) of Hieromartyr Athanasius of Brest, Hegumen of the Monastery of St Simeon Stylites in Brest (1648)
 * Repose of Priest Valentine Amphiteatrov of Moscow (1908)
 * Repose of Schema-nun Sarah of Borodino (1908)

title: July 20 (Eastern Orthodox liturgics)


text: User talk:65.75.150.102

title: User talk:65.75.150.102


text: User talk:129.22.145.233

title: User talk:129.22.145.233


text:
Talk:Khaled Hosseini

Homepage
www.khaledhosseini.com

```` June 27, 2007, david ahnert Could I add a link to the bayareaintellect.com, which simply provides a report of Hosseini's talk about his new novel? I do not understand why an establishment magazine like TIME can have such a link, but an indie magazine cannot.

Hosseini's ethnicity
Hosseini's ethnic background is a perpetual cause of pointless contention in this article, and I intend to continue to revert any unsourced assertions on the subject, per WP:VERIFY. There have been many edits on this subject, and ample time for someone to provide a reference, but none have been forthcoming. Please don't re-add that information unless you can substantiate it with a reliable source. -- Shelf Skewed  Talk  18:27, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I know Hussaini and his family personally. he is from the Hussaini clan of Herat. They are ethnic Tajiks--Anoshirawan 21:52, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Personal vouching does not constitute a reliable source. It amounts to "It's true because I say so." -- Shelf Skewed  Talk  21:55, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

shelfskewd is right, we don't know his true ethnic background. what if he is half from one ethnic and half from other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ragoo Spigetti (talk • contribs) 23:56, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

His last name gives away his ethnicity as Tajik, just as a last name ending with a "zai" like Karzai or Popalzai would give away a Pashtun ethnicity. -- Behnam 03:13, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe you. Now provide a reliable source for that assertion, and I'll stop removing it. -- Shelf Skewed  Talk  04:10, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Well you can do a search for the last name "Hosseini" even here on Wikipedia and you'll find all Hosseinis are Iranians. -- Behnam 05:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I know people from Wardak, Jalallabad, Peshawar, etc. named Hussaini. Nice try. --Aquabee (talk) 16:08, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

 * That's because there are Farsiwans in those areas. Also Wardak has Shia Hazaras who also have that last name. TheNewPianist (talk) 04:41, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Actually these are Pashto speaking people that I am referring to. What is with this obsession of yours anyway?  Are you that insecure?  --Aquabee (talk) 17:16, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

 * The only other ethnic group in Afghanistan that could have a last name like Hosseini would be the Hazaras. However the Hazaras are Asiatic people and Khaled Hosseini is clearly not a Hazara. He must be a Tajik then. I don't know of a source that will state his ethnicity directly since it's taboo to do so among Afghanistanis, but it's very trivial that his ethnicity is Tajik and I don't think trivial things like that need a direct citation. -- Behnam 05:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I certainly agree that the point is trivial, but then why is it so contentious? You and at least one other editor insist that Dr. Hosseini is Tajik, while another editor (or editors) insists that he is not, and no one can offer any verifiable evidence one way or the other. Until such time as a reliable source is found to support a statement about his ethnicity, the information should be omitted. -- Shelf Skewed  Talk  12:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Khaled Hosseini is american citizen and has american nationality! He isnt in any way related to Afghan or Afghanistan His ethnicity is Tajik/Persian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Socrates0 (talk • contribs) 22:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The use of Afghan or Afghanistani is merely intended to convey that Hosseini was born in, and was formerly a citizen of, Afghanistan--a fact widely available from multiple reliable sources, and beyond dispute--nothing more. Any further statements about his ethnicity are, without a reliable source to support them, unverified assertions and therefore subject to removal at any time. -- Shelf Skewed  Talk  22:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Any further statements about his ethnicity are, without a reliable source to support them, unverified assertions and therefore subject to removal at any time. --Bejnar (talk) 16:38, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * "If you find unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about a living person—whether in an article or on a talk page—remove it immediately." (emphasis in original) from Citing sources.--Bejnar (talk) 16:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Hosseini's ethnicity is shrouded in mystery DELIBERATELY. I mean seriously, people. A person only conceals their ethnicity for very good reason. The fact is that he is a Tajik and a Shi`ite. Yet, this is treated like a well guarded secret because it would make way too clear the biases and prejudices in his writings. He's a Tajik and a Shi`ite and Tajiks and Shi`ites should stop trying to hide it. The guy is a best selling author. Be proud of it for God's sake and stop trying to conceal it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.209.203.254 (talk) 23:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Khaled referring to himself as an "Afghan"
At the 1:15 mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzwMvYmZ8_U

If any proponent of "Afghanistani" can find a snippet of Khaled Hosseini using this word, then please provide it here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquabee (talk • contribs) 04:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

 * According to Princeton University's WordNet, Afghanistani is a synonym for Afghan (Afghan as in the fabricated nationality). So if Princeton says it's a synonym, there should be no issue with using Afghanistani instead. Especially considering that he is not an ethnic Afghan (see Pashtuns). TheNewPianist (talk) 05:37, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Tell this to Khaled Hosseini who clearly calls himself an Afghan in this video and every other appearance. I don't buy your argument for a second.  Nor do I think that you actually believe it either.  I'd suggest you check any library for the use of "Afghanistani" in print.  Even online, it's merely an anomaly.  --Aquabee (talk) 05:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Princeton University's WordNet:

"noun 1. 	a native or inhabitant of Afghanistan [syn: Afghan]"

TheNewPianist (talk) 06:03, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Tell Khaled Hosseini that he is not Afghan. You know him, right? --Aquabee (talk) 06:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

 * He is an educated person, so he knows he is not Afghan already. Many Tajiks call themselves Afghan instead of Afghanistani for practical reasons (eg. to sell more books, etc). TheNewPianist (talk) 06:14, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

 * That's bordering on libel you know. I'm not wasting any more time here.  --Aquabee (talk) 06:29, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

This paragraph bothers me:

"In 1976, Hosseini's father obtained a job in Paris and moved the family there. They chose not to return to Afghanistan because communists had seized power through a bloody coup. Instead, in 1980 they sought political asylum in the United States and made their residence in San Jose, California. Having left Afghanistan with only the clothes on their back, they were forced to subsist on welfare and food stamps for a brief period."

1) If they chose not to return to Afghanistan from Paris, how could they have left Afghanistan with little more than the clothes on their backs? 2) Additionally I dont think he is pashtun is he? Has he stated anywhere that he is pashtun?, unnless he has done so we should remove that "fact", since his name clearly implies that he is not pashtun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.203.33.59 (talk) 00:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Comment on biography
[Transfered from article]

However on his official homepage it is clearly stated in the Bio section that "In 1976, the Afghan Foreign Ministry relocated the Hosseini family to Paris. They were ready to return to Kabul in 1980, but by then Afghanistan had already witnessed a bloody communist coup and the invasion of the Soviet army. The Hosseinis sought and were granted political asylum in the United States." Source: http://www.khaledhosseini.com/hosseini-bio.html

If they chose not to return to Afghanistan from Paris, how could they have left Afghanistan with little more than the clothes on their backs? Maybe someone is thinking of his book?-- Furthermore, saying that he is pashtun is just absurd. Again there seems to be mixing of reality and fiction. The kite runner is not an autobiograpy. In both his books he potrays the pashtuns as victimizers and I think its important to note that he is NOT a pashtun. Does someone have any sources that verify that he is pashtun, otherwise it is obvious from his name that he is not, or that they were forced to flee from Afghanistan even though they chose not to return to Afghanistan from Paris? Would appreciate it thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.203.33.59 (talk • contribs)

Its very stupid and naive to call someone Afghanistani when all over the web and the whole world and including himself mentions "Afghan". In interview with John Karazki he clearly called himself as "Pure Afghan"

Historian born 1975 (talk) 00:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

January 2008 reverts
To 84.59.98.184: You have recently made several edits to this article that are just reverts to an earlier version you edited. Although other editors have changed your edits, there are also other edits in between that your reverts are undoing. For example, I corrected the information about Hosseini's position with the UNHCR, based on the source already cited. If you would like to make changes to particular parts of the article, please don't do it in such a way that you undo other editors' good edits. It is not productive to just revert everything to the version you like without explanation.

As it is, your edits appear to be simply destructive of factual corrections, and to be adding unreferenced assertions about Hosseini's ethnicity. As I pointed out in an earlier edit summary, the references cited to support at least one of those statements do not say anything at all on the subject. Again, please be more selective in your edits, and if you have a particular point of disagreement, discuss it here instead of simply reverting again. Regards-- Shelf Skewed  Talk  23:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Husseini is a Tajik of the Qezelbash subgroup. That was the sole information i have changed. The citations you mention are not seeable. Concerned to his ethnicity, some Pashtun mf are always changing facts and turning them inti meaningless BS. An example. It is said he is an Afghan, sure, as someone who comes from Afghanistan, a country where Pashtuns try to Pashtunize it, but calling him as Pashtun, tough he is of Persian, Tajik background, is wrong. I do not know who wrote Husseini can speak Pashto, a language which is equivalent to the fart of a donkey and that Pashto is his native language BS! His parents left Afghanistan as TAJIKS before he have ever visited a school there and his native language if Persian not a fart. You need just to read his books how he is blaming Pashtun mentality and culture passively. He speak about their homosexuality, about their ritual marriage ceremonies (graping a woman and taking her by violence to the own house on a donkey) and many more. Specially the racist faces of Pashtuns are more than presented. Just read Kite Runner His background http://www.afgha.net/?q=node/4302 http://www.weshow.com/uk/videos/post/search?text=+Tajik-American

--88.68.215.70 (talk) 16:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

 * No, the Tajik information is NOT the only thing you are changing. You are also reverting different edits, by other editors, that have nothing to do with those subjects. And even on the topic of ethnicity, you are simply reinserting unsourced assertions on the subject. The references I am talking about are in the raw text (in the version you keep reverting to) directly after the phrase Tajik American, but the sources do not support that assertion of ethnicity.

 * Before you started your edits a couple days ago, the article had no references to Pashtun or Tajik, and that's where it should end up unless someone can come up with reliable sources. -- Shelf Skewed  Talk  16:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Your last revert referred to vandalism. Can you be more specific please? -- Neil N   talk  ♦  contribs  17:37, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See my comments above. The editor is reverting to a particular version he likes because the ethnicity information suits his POV. But in so doing he is reverting a number of other good edits made over a long period of time that have nothing to do with that. Further, the ethnicity information he is reinserting is unsourced. -- Shelf Skewed  Talk  17:43, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

 * For example the sentence "Having left Afghanistan with only the clothes on their back, they were forced to subsist on welfare and food stamps for a brief period." is not from the biography of Khaled Hossein, but is a statement about one of the characters in his book. It shouldn't be re-added.  Similarly, there is no reason for removing the ISBN for Thousand Splendid Suns from the footnote. --Bejnar (talk) 00:36, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Banned User:Tajik and his false claims
All the IPs starting with the number 8 from Germany are used by the extreme POV pusher banned User:Tajik who is now adding false sources to claim that Khalid Hosseini is of Tajik ethnic background. Let me tell you if this was the case all the western media would have mentioned it in all of their articles about him because they do that with most famous Afghans. Banned user:Tajik is Qizilbash and he is pro-Iranian while at the same time he is anti-Afghanistan, anti-Afghan and anti-Pashtun. Please beware of this POV pusher and don't let him add false ethnicity in this article. The 8 sources he added are fake, mirror sites back to Wikipedia, Afgha.com is also a mirror site, it's a joke site and he is editing articles there, the youtube video does not even mention Hosseini's ethnicity.--119.30.76.43 (talk) 23:47, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Persian writer
IP editor 88.69.52.216 added categories for Persian people and Persian writers. If the citations are correct (I did not verify), Hosseini is a Tajik. There is a category attached to this article for Tajik. It seems that he wrote and published in English. Are these categories Persian people and Persian writers correctly appended to this article? --Bejnar (talk) 16:21, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * He is not from Persia and he didn't write in Persian, so it seems appropriate to delete these categories. --Bejnar (talk) 15:35, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

 * He is a Tajik and thus an ethnic Persian, Tajik=Persian, idiot Pashtun Turk.--84.59.202.75 (talk) 21:35, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As ever, as long as this information about ethnicity remains a) unsourced and b) controversial, it will be removed from the article. -- Shelf Skewed  Talk  21:41, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * First of, Afghanistan is a multi-ethnic. There are many different ethnics, not only Pashtuns and Tajaks. We are not denying him being Tajak. Provide any reliable source which mentions this, just like it's done in most other articles. I believe he is Persian but not all Persians are Tajaks. Some Persians in Afghanistan really hate the word Tajak and they also hate being called such. They believe it's an offensive name because in the past Tajaks were mostly known as highway thieves or bandits. The Afghan Persians want to be known as the educated law abiding citizens of the country.--119.73.9.53 (talk) 04:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Afghan Persians are Tajiks and there is no distinct group called Persian in Afghanistan. other Persian-speakers in Afghanistan are Hazaras and Persianized Uzbeks and Pashtuns. according to Saifi Heravi and Al-Beruni the thieves and bandits were ethnic Pashtun tribes along the Khyber Pass. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Inuit18 (talk • contribs) 08:18, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Khalid Hussain Ethnicity as Hazara
Khalid Hussaini, ethnicity is not clear but can be estimated by his biography and name he is so called, The only shia Islam ethnic living in Afghanistan is clearly they are Hazara people, and Khalid Hussaini (Name) is only specific to shia Islam and is related to Hazara people names, Because Hazara people due being Shia usually uses the Ahlobait names (Peace upon their families and races) means Imam's family. So according to above mentions we could estimate Khalid would be a Hazara ethnic. We could also say that as his carrier and books are related to Hazara people and pashtun as the film The Kite Runner (film) totally focus on Friendship between Hazara and Pashtun boy, This would clearly claim that he cannot be ethnic Tajik and nor Pashtun reason is his name. so

KHALID HUSSAINI IS AN ETHNIC HAZARA Nurbandma (talk) 17:29, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

 * You may be entirely correct, but an educated assumption is not the same as a reliable, verifiable source. From Verifiability: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—that is, whether readers are able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether we think it is true. Editors should provide a reliable source for...any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, or the material may be removed."-- Shelf Skewed  Talk  17:50, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Your point is also correct but I there is no any source or specific place where his ethnicity is declared clearly. But I will find and give it. 119.155.98.3 (talk) 14:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Nationality and ethnicity
I have re-added Afghan as his nationality after it was removed by User talk:Inuit18, a Wikipedian who has an allergy with the word Afghan. Hosseini's ethnic origin has been discussed before - his ethnicity is controversial and we don't know whether he is a Pashtun, Tajik or from another ethnicity. He is nationality is Afghan American, because he is both an Afghan and American. He writes "On the list of the most fortunate Afghans on the planet, I have to rank at the very top."1. Just because he has an American citizenship now, doesn't mean that he is not an Afghan anymore. (Ketabtoon (talk) 02:11, 14 November 2009 (UTC))

He is an American national not an Afghan national. This discussion is only a repeat and there is no reason why we should have this argument again.--Inuit18 (talk) 02:46, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Please, let us know who is an Afghan national? As far as the world and every one else is concerned, he is an Afghan American. He is both a citizen of Afghanistan and the United States. A person can have dual-citizenship. In reality, he is first an Afghan and then an American. He himself claims that he is an AFGHAN IN EXILE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzwMvYmZ8_U (1:15).  (Ketabtoon (talk) 04:45, 14 November 2009 (UTC))

 * And please do read this, Nationality - The word "Nationality" in the infobox is linked to the same page. Let me quote it here as well "Membership can be acquired by being born within the jurisdiction of a state, by inheriting it from parents, or by a process of naturalization. Nationality affords the state jurisdiction over the person and affords the person the protection of the state." & "The word citizenship is often used in a different sense from nationality. The most common distinguishing feature of citizenship is that citizens have the right to participate in the political life of the state, such as by voting or standing for election. The term national includes both citizens and non-citizens."  (Ketabtoon (talk) 04:53, 14 November 2009 (UTC))
 * It is not helpful to focus on just one meaning in a long article. Instead, we ought to reference the meaning as used in the template, whatever that may be. --Bejnar (talk) 18:12, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

For starters are we at least agreed that: If not, please so state. --Bejnar (talk) 18:12, 14 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) He is a citizen of the United States, and
 * 2) He was born in Afghanistan

 * There is no doubt about that. He was born in Afghanistan and he moved to the United States, where he is a citizen now. What kind of proof does any one need to show that he is an Afghan national/citizen? The same proof can be requested for his American citizenship as well. Every person who was born in Afghanistan and carried an Afghan Tazkira (Afghan identity card) is an Afghan national. Khaled Hosseini has all the rights (to vote, to run for an office, to become a member of the parliament and so on in Afghanistan) that an Afghan should have. Hosseini himself claims that he is an Afghan in exile - "Exile means to be away from one's home".

 * There is nothing to discuss in here. The problem is that user Inuit18 (and few other Wikipedians) has an allergy with the word Afghan. He had removed the nationality in the past as well in few other biographies, and User:VirtualSteve requested him not to that.   (Ketabtoon (talk) 18:49, 14 November 2009 (UTC))
 * If that is the case under the law of Afghanistan (do you have a citation?), then there is no need to put in ambiguous "nationality" statements. --Bejnar (talk) 19:51, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

 * The constitution of Afghanistan has not banned dual citizenship. The constitution states "The word Afghan applies to every citizen of Afghanistan." and "No member of the nation can be deprived of his citizenship of Afghanistan. Affairs related to the citizenship and asylum are regulated by law." (Chapter 1, Article 4). The same applies for United States - dual citizenship is not banned. Because of the 30 year war, thousands of Afghans took refugee in foreign countries. Except few cases (in countries where dual citizenship is not allowed), every person from Afghanistan is a citizen of Afghanistan.

 * "the stunningly successful first novel by an Afghan immigrant" New York Times
 * "Khaled Hosseini is a novelist and physician originally from Afghanistan." Guardian
 * "Afghan-born American novelist who was known for his vivid depictions of Afghanistan, most notably in The Kite Runner (2003)." Britanica
 * "says Afghan-born Hosseini." Time.com
 * "Khaled Hosseini is an Afghan-American author and physician." Biblio
 * "This is the largest community of Afghans outside of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. There are maybe 80-90,000 Afghans," he said" CBS News

 * (Ketabtoon (talk) 20:48, 14 November 2009 (UTC))

 * I don't understand what all those other citations are for, we agreed that he was born in Afghanistan, see above. The key piece of constitutional law that you cited is No member of the nation can be deprived of his citizenship of Afghanistan. (grammar not withstanding).  The United States does allow dual citizenship, this is usually the case where a child is born in a foreign country of U.S. parents. With naturalization, the case is different. So the next question would be whether Khaled Hosseini renounced his citizenship of Afghanistan when he became a U.S. citizen.  If he is a naturalized U.S. citizen section 8 U.S.C. 1448 "Oath of renunciation and allegiance" requires him "(2) to renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen;" Assuming Khaled Hosseini is a naturalized U.S. citizen and complied with the law, Afghanistan may or may not consider such a voluntary renunciation of citizenship to be valid. So the question remains open, does anyone have a citation to Afghan law on point? "be deprived of" and "voluntarily renounce" are not necessaruily the same thing. --Bejnar (talk) 21:48, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

 * 18 U.S.C. Section 1448 (2) applies only in the United States, it doesn't affect the laws of Afghanistan. According to Chapter 3 and 4 of the Constitution of Afghanistan only the president and government employees are prevented from possessing citizenship of a foreign country. Khalid Hossieni is not in the government business so there's no Afghan law that prevents him from having duel citizenship. Afghan law requires that a person must establish record of father's Afghan nationality in order for them to be considered a citizen, Hossieni's history establishes this.--AYousefzai (talk) 00:20, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Since you have pointed to no Afghan law that would make his renunciation of citizenship invalid, it must be deemed effective. --Bejnar (talk) 06:18, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I have removed "ethnicity" from the info-box, because a) we do not really know what ethnic group he belongs to, and b) because "Afghan" - by modern definition - is not an ethnicity. Even from a historical point of view, it would be wrong, because Khaled Hosseini is most likely not a Pashtun. Tajik (talk) 04:51, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh yes? One point is sure. He is not a Pashtun nor a Hazara. He is an ethnic Tajik, a Qizilbash from Herat whose grand-father and father were related to the royal house of the Musahibans. The family moved during the mid of the 70s to Kabul. He is a Tajik. Everyone who ever met Khaled and know his novels, understand his works as part of his life´s mirror. For more information I would invite you on Khawaran.com and Khorasanzameen.net. Look for the article about secretly Pashtun bashing in his novel The Kite Runner.

Ps: in the video he does not say he is an Afghan. He just says he is from Afghanistan! That is a difference. For more accurate answers to his ethnicity I´d like you to listen THIS--188.107.12.104 (talk) 21:04, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Hosseini have no the Afghan cititenship, only his father, aside from his american one. If he has no Afghan citizenship, he does not define himself as an Afghan or even as Pashtu as most do, how could he become an Afghan by citizen and Pashtun by nationality? That´s what Ketabtoon want to propagate here, falsefully. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.107.12.104 (talk) 21:13, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

For further information on his ethnicity: A Critical Response to the Pashtun Bashing in The Kite Runner, by Afghan Rahmat Rabi Zirakyar

''I read its first Riverhead paperback edition (2004) in November of 2009. Its hardcover was published a year earlier in 2003. He is culturally a non-Pashtun but ethnically a half-Pashtun: Dr. Hosseini’s mother, grandmother and great-grandmother belong to the Mohammadzai nobility of Pashtun heritage. Also, his aunt is the mother of Prince Mostapha Zaher, the grandson of King Zaher Shah( 1914-2007).''

Tough Zirakyar does not represant any kind of evidances of his claim (and Hosseini´s family is unrelated to any Pashtun family, an info from his own mouth), he is only through his mother, if the claim of Zirakyar would have been true but which isn´t, a Pashtun, but from father he´s either a Tajik, Uzbek, Hazara, Pashai, Arab or an Indian. An Indian and Arab origine for him can be excluded, because his mother-tongue is Persian and he belong to the greater Iranian culture of Afghanistan (Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, Pashais, Nuristanis). His family through his father was not a Jihaadi and thus is not a new-comer. Now we have to deal with a possible Uzbek, Hazara, Nuristani, Pashai or Tajik origine. A Pashai and Nuristani can be excluded because his ancestors are from Herat, native Persianspeakers, belonging to the next greater Persianspeaking communities, Hazaras and Tajiks, and representing the elitist layer or the upper middle-class of Afghanistan and particularly of Kabul which is made by Tajiks exclusivly. Now only the Hazara community remains. He is not Asian-looking and does not belong to a lower class than the upper class of Afghanistan´s privilegded population and thus he only can be a Tajik, even if his mother´s a Pashtun, but belonging to the Tajik culture, language and ethnicity through his father. In Afghanistan, it´s only count from where your father is from, not mother, girl-friend or whatever. If your father is a Hazara than you are a Hazara even if your mother is a Pashtun or Tajik. Dostum´s mother is a Pashtun but is he ever called by anyone as a Pashtun or half-Pashtun? Think about it. Why do you think Zirakyar does not mention his non-Pashtun origine but describes him as culturally as a non-Pashtun? --94.219.196.21 (talk) 13:36, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Kite Runner is based on a true event
[http://www.berlinverlag.de/autor/autorDetails.asp?autorID=6 Hazara boy, who was his friend, was raped by a Pashtun man ''»Oh, ist das Moussa da drüben?« Ich sagte: »Ja.« Er nickte und bemerkte beiläufig – entschuldigen Sie, wenn ich dies wiederhole: »Ich habe ihn den letzten Monat über gefickt.« Mein Bruder und ich wussten nicht, was das bedeutete. Wir fragten herum und fanden es schließlich heraus.'']. The entire book is a review of his life where Pashtuns as backward and savage people play a special role. Actually, the role of Amir should be a Tajik but he later changed it to a Pashtun to defuse the roles of Pashtuns. Just read the book´s explanation and the links. In his book, the young Ami was a part of himself--94.219.196.21 (talk) 13:55, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Also take in mind what´s the last sentence of the book was ''I ran. A grown man running with a swarm of screaming children. But I didn’t care. I ran with the wind blowing in my face, and a smile as wide as the Valley of Panjsher on my lips. This is a message--94.219.196.21 (talk) 14:06, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Regardless of whether it was "based on a true event", the novel is not a history book. Fiction can often be based on memories, but that doesn't change its genre.  Please stop changing Hosseini's "genre" in the infobox from "fiction" to "history". AtticusX (talk) 20:55, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Minor issue with Categories
I don't know who added Californian Republican to Khaled Hosseini's categories, but I can't find any sources to back this up. Perhaps a removal should be in order until we find more from Mr. Hosseini on politics?

Note: it's interesting that Mr. Hosseini didn't mention party affiliation when he commented on McCain-Palin's 'lack of moral courage' --Macindows (talk) 05:37, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. There is nothing in the article to support this category; I have removed it.-- Shelf Skewed  Talk  13:37, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

I have also removed non-fiction categories as I could not find anything in the article about them...GrahamHardy (talk) 17:56, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that And the Mountains Echoed be merged into Khaled_Hosseini. I gave this a little time since there was some coverage in RS, but I think that this is simply WP:TOOSOON for this to merit its own article and that it doesn't really pass WP:NBOOK. I'd normally just redirect this, but considering that it has received some coverage makes me want to have a debate about this rather than just redirecting. If nobody can bring up a good argument otherwise by December 6th, I'm going to merge any pertinent data into the main article for Hosseini and redirect there. Much of this information is already in Hosseini's article and what little we do have so far can easily be summed up in 1-2 sentences.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 10:25, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * My main argument is that while we have 5 sources, all of them say the exact same thing and seem to be taken from the same statement/press release. There's really no depth of coverage here since it's all pretty much the same news article but stated in 5 different places. It's just not enough. I figure we redirect for now and merge anything not already in the article, then un-redirect when we have more sourcing.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 10:28, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

 * Comment: Since there are no other comments for or against the merge, I'll go ahead and merge/redirect to the main article here. This is one of those books that will undoubtedly be notable, but isn't at this point in time. The sources out there are all based off of the same source or press release and all state the same thing. It also doesn't help that mentions of the book are fairly brief in nature and if there was just one in-depth source that stated something other than what is the rest of the articles on the page, I'd keep it as it is. I just think it's really too soon for an article. In about a month or two when more sources become available or when a release date is announced then it can be un-redirected.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 11:52, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Haris or Harris
Reliable sources, such as The Telegraph in Despair in Kabul, seem to agree that the name of Hosseini's eldest child is "Haris" with only a single "r". --Bejnar (talk) 19:20, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

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Having just finished reading A Thousand Splendid Suns, I was struck by the mention in the article of Hosseini's son--what he does and where he lives. No elaboration is made of his daughter--just her name. Another example of women not being worthy of mention? 73.195.82.240 (talk) 01:21, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Typo on subtitles
For the video of Hosseini talking one of the "that"s is spelled "taht".

Religion
The Personal life section states "[he] has described himself as a secular Muslim", then the categories list him as a Muslim. Sounds sort of like calling one a Haredi and a secular Jew at the same time. 89.64.82.54 (talk) 00:12, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Because he is still a Muslim. TolWol56 (talk) 01:16, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Khaled Hosseini