text:
User:Alex Nisnevich/monobook.js

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title: User:Alex Nisnevich/monobook.js


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ryo Sasaki

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP. -Splash 01:30, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Ryo Sasaki
Probable non-notable illustrator. I can't read Japanese so my Google searching is limited, but I don't see any Google mentions of this person at all, which would be odd for a popular manga artist of today. Tempshill 23:16, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Abstain. Can someone fluent in Japanese substantiate this?  Hall Monitor 23:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as per Kappa. Hall Monitor 23:42, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, a variety of her works are available at amazon.co.jp |508086:12|1162650:10/qid=1124408144/sr=3-2/ref=sr_3_10_2/249-4658538-4069154 Kappa 23:38, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, per Kappa. -- BD2412 talk 00:19, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Kappa; I'll vote keep on my own submission. Tempshill 00:22, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment added link to substantial article on Japanese Wikipedia. Fg2 00:23, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep did you try googling on the kanji also (they can be copied and pasted)? --TimPope 21:47, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: I think it should be Akira Sasaki rather than Ryo Sasaki, then we get lots of google hits under the English version. --TimPope 22:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
User talk:MrJones452

Hey. Please don't delete other users' comments, it is considered vandalism. Also, if you want to sign your comments, use ~, which produces your user name and the date and time, like this: Flowerparty  talk 23:16, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:MrJones452


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Coq Roq

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep. Redwolf24 04:10, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Coq Roq
non-notable viral marketing spam. JDoorjam 23:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I do worry that describing specific viral marketing campaigns is exactly the same as participating in them. Anyway, not notable Sliggy 23:50, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete made the news today because Slipknot is sueing them (BK) or something like that. But I'm not sure it is really notable.  Most of this kind of thing is quickly forgotten. --  Etacar11   00:54, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete no reason to suppose that this viral campaign is any more interesting than any other. -Splash 03:07, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I created the article because I thought it was notable, and you know, Subservient Chicken has its own page as well. Maybe merge it, since they're both based on the BK chicken character? --WikiFan04Talk 2:58, 19 Aug 2005 (CDT)
 * Then why did you nominate Subervient Chicken for deletion? Are you trying to make a POINT?  -- JamesTeterenko 17:53, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Coq Roq appears poised to be a breakout campaign in the tradition of a "Where's the Beef?"  Blah blah blah Not A Crystal Ball but hey, I think it's funny.  Needs more work, though.  -HX
 * Delete. Importance not established.  -- JamesTeterenko 17:53, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Adding Content. I found this page lacking content and I am adding to it and cleaning it up. --Klander Brigade 15:28 19 August 2005 (EST)
 * Delete. No constructive purpose, uninteresting and, as an above user said, lacks Importance. D-Katana
 * Keep Diggit. SchmuckyTheCat 05:35, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. What's the point of deleting this article? Stoph 00:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. No, James, I put Subservient Chicken on VfD because I don't believe it is NOTABLE! And Stoph, I agree with you. WikiFan04Talk 2:49, 21 Aug 2005 (CDT)
 * Keep I'm researching the behaviour of online brands and most of the information I can find on this is within paid for marketing journals - surely the point of wiki is to get this information to everyone? (Unsigned vote by, third edit)
 * Keep I don't understand how major, semi-innovative national marketing campaigns of multi-billion dollar corporations aren't notable. R ADICAL B ENDER ★  19:42, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Those new chicken fingers are tasty. --Boycottthecaf 23:44, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep I mean, yeah, okay, it's notable, barely, but I get the feeling that we'd be better off merging this article with Subservient Chicken and other examples of viral marketing. --T-Boy 11:51, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * KEEP Not notable! Are you kidding me?!?! This is part of a nation wide ad campaign! Most people have heard about Coq Roq, especially since the law suit. Its just as important as any of the other fictional band articles on Wikipedia.--The_stuart 14:38, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep. I've seen and didn't know what it was about, then came across it from a link on List of YTMND fads, because of the article, I know now about Burger King getting sued, which I didn't know until I read this article.. --Saint-Paddy 03:14, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Coq Roq


text:
MediaWiki talk:Bad image list

File:Woman naked Buttocks.jpg
For this article. Lionel Cristiano? 16:29, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

 * @Fastily Lionel Cristiano? 23:32, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * ❌. This list has no effect on other wikis. For usage on trwiki, you need to find an administrator on trwiki who can edit tr:MediaWiki:Bad_image_list for you. -- zzuuzz (talk) 23:45, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Zzuuzz I understand now, thanks. Lionel Cristiano? 23:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Added entry, Why?
File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-56576-0001, Berlin-Friedrichshain, Planschbecken.jpg? Is this considered Child Pornography due to the Child Nudity? Naraht (talk) 15:42, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

 * Courtesy ping but I can say it was indeed being used repeatedly for vandalism/disruptive editing. ~ Amory  (u • t • c) 13:45, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Addition request
Hi, File:Piledriver Sex Position V1.jpg, with exception I guess for articles such as Sex position.

(The image was used inappropriately on Wikidata not long ago. I know that this list doesn't affect other projects; this is just FYI).

Thanks! E L Yekutiel (talk) 07:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

File:Wiki-doublepen.png
Requesting exception for double penetration The First Spinjitzu Master (talk) 20:58, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅. -- zzuuzz (talk) 21:03, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

File:Masturbating secrets.gif
File:Masturbating secrets.gif has been used repeatedly for vandalism and disruptive editing. Ex: Special:Diff/1230506680  C F A   💬  03:50, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

 * . Thanks for reporting this. —  Newslinger  talk   07:24, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

[[File:40 year old male ejaculation.gif]]
Requesting exception for use in Orgasm as the file shows pelvic floor contractions in a male. Rim sim (talk) 16:15, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅. -- zzuuzz (talk) 17:12, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

title: MediaWiki talk:Bad image list


text:
User talk:Khaledshawky

Date of Birth: 	1/Aug/1980 Gizzah, Egypt Nationality:	Egyptian

Khaled Shawky is a Computer Field Engineer; currently working in Gizzah; Egypt at Global Brands and here is a brief info about him:

Higher Institutes of Information Systems and Computer Sciences (6 October University) – (Higher Education) [1999 – 2003] Bachelor: Information Systems Pyramids Language School [1997-1999] Dar Al Tarbyah (Zamalek) [1996 – 1997] Shah Lalji Nangpar Academy [1994 – 1996] Nefertity Language School [Primary] German School – [Kindergarten]

Khaled has achieved some certification in the computer engineering area:

Servicing HP Desktop Workstation Thin-Client Products (Accredited Platform Specialist) – Self Paced Course

Servicing HP Proliant Systems (Accredited Platform Specialist) – Self Paced Course

compTIA Server+

Khaled is also planning to take a couple of courses

IBM xSeries servers MCSE 2003

Khaled Shawky Contact:

kshawky@gmail.com kh_shawky@hotmail.com +20101394040

title: User talk:Khaledshawky


text:
User talk:Kingka

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! - and, on a personal note, I am very impressed by the articles you've created. Well done! DS 23:23, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Image copyright problem with Image:Duncan_James.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Duncan_James.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. 12:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Duncan_James.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Duncan_James.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Iamunknown 02:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Up All Night.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Up All Night.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 02:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:08, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Einstein Kristiansen

The article Einstein Kristiansen has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Sounds like an advertisement, poorly written, sketchy sources, little information about the subject to prove that they are significant enough for a Wikipedia page"

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''' This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the history of each individual page for details. ''' Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 10:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Robert Trebor for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Robert Trebor is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Robert Trebor until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Natg 19 (talk) 18:28, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

title: User talk:Kingka


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph checkler

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP. -Splash 01:31, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Joseph checkler
Non-notable blogger. 98 Google mentions. BTW, submitter didn't care enough about the article to capitalize his last name. Tempshill 23:19, 18 August 2005 (UTC) - I've done a search, and found that he's written articles that have moved the markets as much as 15% - factiva "Amazon Building Its Own Audio Book Download Store" - Audible's stock went down 13% on that news. I don't know, I think it stays. Besides, this Rowan place could use some more notable alums! :)
 * Please don't assume the worst of submitters. Perhaps they were trying to look him up, didn't find him, and insteaed they were invited to create an article at that title. Kappa 23:30, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

- Got 215 Google hits, plus many more when I search "Joe Checkler," seems to have covered some big matches during the 2003 and 2004 U.S. Open tennis tourneys. Ha ha on the Rowan comment, I'm from Jersey and we're the only ones that have heard of it. Not a deletable entry, in my opinion. Maybe I'm partial 'cause I'm from Jersey.
 * OK I can vote keep because covering big matches for usopen.org makes him a legitimate journalist. Kappa 14:06, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as well after the info above. I was staying out of it til then since I could be seen as biased. :P RasputinAXP   talk  *  contribs  19:54, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User:Mrmanire

Michael Griffin was born in ennis in the year 1985. Goes to college in the university of limerick. A legend in his own toolbox.

title: User:Mrmanire


text:
I Ain't No Quitter

"I Ain't No Quitter" is a song by Canadian country-pop singer Shania Twain. It was released on May 2, 2005 to country radio and physically in Europe on July 12, 2005 as the third and final single from her first compilation album Greatest Hits (2004). Like mostly all of her discography at the time, the song was written by Twain and then-husband Robert John "Mutt" Lange, who also produced the track. "I Ain't No Quitter" lyrically is about Twain sticking around with an overconfident and brash man. The song is regarded as a fan favorite among Twain's discography.

Despite positive reviews, "I Ain't No Quitter" became one of her least successful singles. The song reached number 45 on the Hot Country Songs, marking her lowest officially released single since 1996's "God Bless the Child" on the chart. The song had virtually no promotion due to Twain's worsening Lyme disease. It wouldn't be until her 2012 Vegas residency Still the One where the song would be performed for the first time. She would also perform the single during her 2015 Rock This Country Tour.

Critical reception
Chuck Taylor of Billboard magazine appreciated the single and said it was "catchy as all get out, while winking in the face of a classic country theme. It's an appreciable effort that should sparkle on the summer airwaves."

Music video
The music video for "I Ain't No Quitter" was shot in Tijuana, Mexico, in March 2005, directed by Wayne Isham. It was released on May 5, 2005. The video is set in a country bar where there is a line dancing competition going on. The dancers throw in a bit of hip-hop influenced dancing. To keep with the country theme of the song and video, Twain wears a cowboy hat in every scene. The video is available on select CD singles of "I Ain't No Quitter".

Chart performance
"I Ain't No Quitter" entered the Billboard Hot Country Singles & Tracks chart in the week of May 21, 2005, at number 55. The single spent eight weeks on the chart and climbed to a peak position of number 45 on July 2, 2005, where it remained for one week. "I Ain't No Quitter" was Twain's lowest peaking single since "God Bless the Child", which peaked at number 48 in 1997.

Despite no physical release in Canada, the song still managed to chart on the Canadian Singles Chart purely on import sales. "I Ain't No Quitter" reached number 22.

Track listings
These are the formats for major releases.

UK CD Single
 * 1) "I Ain't No Quitter" - 3:30
 * 2) "Whose Bed Have Your Boots Been Under?" (Live) - 4:27
 * 3) "I Ain't Going Down" (Live) - 4:01
 * 4) Enhanced: "I Ain't No Quitter" - Music Video

Germany CD Single
 * 1) "I Ain't No Quitter" - 3:30
 * 2) "Whose Bed Have Your Boots Been Under?" (Live) - 4:27

title: I Ain't No Quitter


text:
Richard McMullen

Richard Cann McMullen (January 2, 1868 – February 18, 1944) was an American manufacturer and politician from Wilmington, in New Castle County, Delaware. He was a member of the Democratic Party, who served as Governor of Delaware.

Early life and family
McMullen was born at Porters, near Glasgow, Delaware, son of James and Sarah Boulden McMullen. He worked as a farm hand to meet expenses while studying at Goldey Commercial College. He married Florence Hutchinson in 1895 and they had three children, Laura B., Richard H. and Florence and were members of the Methodist Church.

Professional and political career
McMullen learned the tanning and leather business while working at the Mullin and Pierson Leather Plant, later to become the Amalgamated Leather Company. In 1917 he and two partners founded the Standard Kid Company and later became vice president, then general manager of the Allied Kid Company in Wilmington. These companies were tanneries and leading manufactures of leather products.

As a prominent businessman he had served two terms on the Wilmington City Council, had served on the Public Utilities and Unemployment Insurance Commission, and had turned down an offer to run for Mayor of Wilmington.

Governor of Delaware
After reluctantly agreeing to run, he was elected Governor of Delaware in 1936, defeating Republican Harry L. Cannon, and Isaac D. Short, a Republican running as an Independent. McMullen was the first Democratic governor in 36 years and throughout his term was frustrated with his inability to replace his political opponents in state government. As his term was during the latter part of the Great Depression, public works projects were going on throughout the state, including the opening of the Roosevelt Inlet at Lewes, a new bridge over Indian River Inlet and a couple of new stations for the State Police.

{|class=wikitable style="width: 94%" style="text-align: center;" align="center" !colspan=12 style="background: #ccccff;" |Delaware General Assembly (sessions while Governor) !Year !Assembly ! !Senate Majority !President  pro tempore  ! !House Majority !Speaker
 * -bgcolor=#cccccc
 * 1937-1938
 * 109th
 * |Republican
 * |William A. Simonton
 * |Democratic
 * |John R. Fader
 * 1939-1940
 * 110th
 * |Republican
 * |David W. Steele
 * |Republican
 * |Frank R. Zebley
 * |Republican
 * |David W. Steele
 * |Republican
 * |Frank R. Zebley
 * |Republican
 * |Frank R. Zebley

Death and legacy
McMullen was again nominated as the Democratic Party candidate for governor in 1940, but suffered a heart attack a month before the election and withdrew from the campaign. He died at Wilmington and is buried there in the Riverview Cemetery.

Almanac
Elections are held the first Tuesday after November 1. The governor takes office the third Tuesday of January and has a four-year term.

{|class=wikitable style="width: 94%" style="text-align: center;" align="center" !colspan=7 style="background: #ccccff;" |Public offices ! Office ! Type ! Location ! Began office ! Ended office ! notes
 * -bgcolor=#cccccc
 * Governor
 * Executive
 * Dover
 * January 19, 1937
 * January 21, 1941
 * January 21, 1941

{|class=wikitable style="width: 94%" style="text-align: center;" align="center" !colspan=12 style="background: #ccccff;" |Election results !Year !Office ! !Subject !Party !Votes !% ! !Opponent !Party !Votes !%
 * -bgcolor=#cccccc
 * 1936
 * Governor
 * |Richard C. McMullen
 * |Democratic
 * |65,437
 * |50%
 * |Harry L. Cannon Isaac D. Short
 * |Republican Independent Republican
 * |52,782 8,400
 * |43% 7%
 * |Republican Independent Republican
 * |52,782 8,400
 * |43% 7%

Images

 * Hall of Governors Portrait Gallery; Portrait courtesy of Historical and Cultural Affairs, Dover.

Places with more information

 * Delaware Historical Society; website; 505 North Market Street, Wilmington, Delaware 19801; (302) 655-7161
 * University of Delaware; Library website; 181 South College Avenue, Newark, Delaware 19717; (302) 831-2965

title: Richard McMullen


text: User talk:68.82.15.238

title: User talk:68.82.15.238


text:
Talk:Lead acetate

Move to Lead(II) acetate

 * Rename page to Lead(II) acetates

Support

 * 1) Lead(II) acetate is the precise chemical name. And, of course, a redirect must be set up from Lead acetate (since that is the most common name), just like copper sulfate redirects to copper(II) sulfate. (Currently, there are two articles (Lead(II) acetate and Lead acetate), one of them should be removed by all means.) -- Azazell0 08:32, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) "Lead acetate" gets 25 times as many google hits, so it appears to be the most common name. Niteowlneils 23:21, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Comments
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. This would be a case for WP:DA. violet/riga (t) 14:08, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lead acetate


text:
Category:Pittas

Pitta is the common name for members of the passerine bird family Pittidae.

title: Category:Pittas


text:
Rosa foetida

Rosa foetida, known by several common names, including Austrian briar, Persian yellow rose, and Austrian copper rose, is a species of rose, native to the foothills of the Caucasus Mountains in Georgia. It has yellow flowers with a scent which some find objectionable. Since there were no yellow roses native to Europe, its introduction from Persia was an important addition to the cultivation of roses, and R. foetida is now an important contributor to the stock of cultivated roses.

Name
The rose is named for its smell--foetida is Latin for "having a bad smell" —which is reminiscent of boiled linseed oil, a smell which some find objectionable. However, according to others "the smell is not all that bad."

Cultivation history
Rosa foetida was imported to Europe from Persia (R. foetida 'persiana' being the name of one of its varieties ), and was important to European horticulture since it had no native yellow roses. It was described (in 1583) and successfully cultivated by Carolus Clusius; he grew them in the imperial garden of Rudolf II in Vienna. Its popularity was aided by Clusius's contemporary, Flemish painter and engraver Joris Hoefnagel, who contrasted it with the Eglantine rose in a manuscript illustration.

An important rose, inasmuch as it is the source of yellow in modern-day hybrids, most famously 'Soleil d'Or' (R. foetida x 'Antoine Ducher'; 1900), was bred by Joseph Pernet-Ducher. One variety, Rosa foetida var.  'bicolor' , the Austrian Copper rose, blooms early in the season and has flowers with petals that are red or orange on the upper interior surface but yellow on the lower exterior surface. Rosa foetida has exerted great influence on the modern stock of cultivated roses, contributing also its susceptibility to black spot.

Description and cultivation
The rose is described as a "spindly bush, not terribly vigorous", requiring a stake or a wall, growing up to six feet tall.

title: Rosa foetida


text:
Talk:Dragan Marušič

Untitled
Marusic has no preprints listed on the arXiv and I've certainly never seen any papers by him, hence my nomination. AFAIK, the Zois award has nothing to do with mathematics. Is is possible that some patrioc Slovenian is attempting to populate Wikipidea with biographies of less than notable Slovenians? Or maybe, since this is likely only to annoy people, even some anti-Slovenian?---CH (talk) 23:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This article does assert notability by mention of getting awards and founding theories, so IMHO this isn't a speedy. I would suggest VfD for this one.  JYolkowski // talk 01:24, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

J, I really don't get it. As far as I can see, someone wrote a biography about Marusic on the grounds of alleged professional merit, but as far as I can see, the award has nothing to do with mathematics at all! I.e. it is apparently not awarded by a major mathematical society. Are we to encourage proud parents of every high school athlete who has ever won a minor trophy to create a biography? If I get an award from a local Kiwanis Club, should I create a biographical article about myself? I don't think so!

The article states He is the founder of an algebraic graph theory and a theory of permutation groups in Slovenia. That doesn't even have proper diction in mathtalk, so I don't think it could possibly have been written by a mathematically literate person, regardless of their native language.

I think that biographies about persons whose apparent claim to Wikipedia fame is that they are a research mathematician should contain links to at least one article about at least one specific achievement of this individual in the field of mathematics, or at least a brief description of a major achievement. For example, see the biography of W. T. Tutte which I moved into this category because everyone who has read a book on algebraic graph theory (I've read two) would know Tutte's name and some of his contributions to the field. The articles I am objecting to have no such explanations, and as I said I have not heard of these three persons and can't find any evidence of notable mathematical achievements by any of them. Surely simply earning a Ph.D. doesn't really count; thousands of people earn Ph.D.s in mathematics around the world every year; are we to try to include biographies of all of them? Surely that would be absurd!---CH (talk) 17:57, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Deletion
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 06:10, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Whew! Thanks to everyone who offered their thoughts.  This was my first VfD experience and I learned alot.

 * I have slightly reorganized the article to put a description of research first. First explain why X is interesting! Only then describe childhood, current affiliation, honors.  At the end add some links to more information about X and citations to a representative important paper/book by X. This seems to be a fairly standard for the typical biography on Wikipedia.  Can our expert plez add some more informaton about M's contribs and verify that I was correct in replacing "functionality of graphs" with (group) "action on graphs"? TIA ---CH  (talk) 18:28, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

I made significant changes in terms of organising and adding to the information that was provided about Dragan. Full disclosure: I have been a co-author on two papers with him, as our areas of research overlap. I personally do think that his notability does stem more from his work in advancing mathematics in general, and algebraic graph theory in particular, in Slovenia, than from any one result. Nonetheless, after reading the VfD discussion I reinstated (with the reference provided by Tomo) a brief description of one of his notable results. - Joymwmorris (talk) 00:35, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Picture
I also took a picture of Marušič on the occasion of stepping down as rector. I see that I'm a few minutes late on uploading, as someone else beat me to adding a picture. I'll put both pictures here for comparison for the time being. (I kind of like mine because of the occasion, though the other's a better picture.) I guess the unused picture should be removed from Commons after some time. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 10:52, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dragan Marušič


text:
Template talk:Sonic characters

Lacking
This template is poorly lacking. See http://shit.sclassic.net/index.php/Template:SonicHeroes and http://shit.sclassic.net/index.php/Template:SonicVillains to begin with.

Major Characters
Is Rouge really a major character? She is only in a few games and is mostly given a secondary role. Should be replaced with Metal Sonic.

Chaotix is also not a character, but rather a group of characters. Again, they are minor as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.32.71 (talk) 04:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Gun in Miscellaneous instead of heroes or neutral
The heroes and neutral is composed of playable characters,even Elise and Maria who are much more heroic then G.U.N is in Miscellaneous. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be in Miscellaneous. If anyone opposes this,please say why,before editing.

Delsait

That Chao fella keeps on rambling that Gun Belongs in heroes instead of Neutral yet he's not even discussing it. Delsait

 * There is a sort of discussion going on further down this page. -- Supermorff 17:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Other Sub heading
Can we change "other" to "Tv Shows". Since it appears to only be from the TV shows.UnDeRsCoRe 19:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Queen Alena, Sonia, Manic
Queen Alena, Sonia, Manic are not from Archie/SatAM. They are from Sonic Underground, a tv show. Can I move them? UnDeRsCoRe 15:35, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Silver Neutral/Anti-Hero?
It appears that Silver was under the sub-heading. Neutral/Anti-heroes of the Template. How does anyone know he's neutral or anti? By what I've heard, that he's trying to stop Sonic from doing something that could potentialy kill someone, he appears to be good. Or at least unknown. UnDeRsCoRe 19:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Classification
I'm kinda uncertain about the classification here of "Heroes" and "Villains". While nobody probably objects to Sonic and Tails being heroes, or to Eggman being a villains, some of them aren't as clear cut. Shadow the Hedgehog and Rouge the Bat, specifically, could really be considered either (perhaps anti-hero is a better term for them), and even Knuckles the Echidna was an antagonist in Sonic 3. -- Supermorff 21:49, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, perhaps we can use the teams from sonic heroes for classification, and make a category for others. Also, it might help if we split-up the Chaotix articles. -- ChessAndCookies 07:12, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I created a new category in the template - Neutral, and added Shadow and E-123 Omega. Any refutes? I'm thinking about moving Rouge to Neutral as well. Alex 09:01, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Very Nice, I couldn't figure out how to categorize the characters, mainly because there isn't one true evil, but you managed to do it well, thank you! ChessManXI 07:02, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I think Rouge is a hero, she was on a mission in sA2, since then, she didn't do anything drak or evil. But shadow is a villain, he tried to destroy the planet, attacked gun, sided with the evil black arms, tried to attack the Heroes etc. .............

It looks like this is an old discussion but... maybe the anti-heroes/neutral section should be renamed the "Dark/Neutral" section like how Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes had the "Dark side" and "Team Dark." Dark seems to better describe the murky or clouded alignment of those characters who are neither hero or villian - and its canon. Cigraphix 03:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Team Chaotix?
Does anybody think that the Chaotix should be listed in the template? Alex 09:07, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Full names or not
Is it would be better to have full names for these reasons? Squilibob 14:20, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Robotnik has his name listed fully as 	Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik
 * Tails is a nickname and could any of the combinations of Tails, "Tails", "Tails" the fox, or Miles "Tails" Prower
 * Full names would create less whitespace in the heros part of the table
 * I don't think so because it seems kind of cluttered already. We should somehow try and make it less cluttered.  Also, should Chaos be moved to the neutral/anti-heroes section? --anon

Moving around
I moved Chaos to Neutral and GUN to Hero. --Ac1983fan 13:43, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Who to include?
I changed the title to Sonic X because this only reflects Sonic characters from Sonic X. If this is to retain the title Sonic (and indeed I agree, it shold not only reflect Sonic X), would anyone be adverse to making this a complete compilation of every character associated with Sonic? This would include SatAM, X, Underground, Archie, Fleetway, etc. It can keep the current organization (by hero/villain) rather than series, which is okay. Upon further review, I can see this is for the video game. In this case, even if the main wiki article is 'Sonic the hedgehog series', could there perhaps be some distinction made for it being a game series? Perhaps moving the template to Template:Sonic game series ? Tyciol 03:35, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, Scratch and Grounder are in their own article, yet they aren't on the table. I'll add them for now, but if they don't belong, we can just change it back. Tom Temprotran 01:10, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Attention to all Wikipedians, I have recently moved Mammoth Mogul from the Minor Archie characters article to one of his own, due to the fact that his section on the minor characters article has grown so expansive. As a result, I would appreciate it if he were added to the template. User: Denjo

Adding Fiona Fox, currently a Freedom Fighter, and a character with enough history (IMHO) to support an article outside of the Minor Archie characters article.D1Puck1T 00:10, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Closing brace
I have fixed the closing brace problem in the table. Pages that used this template followed by another template will now display correctly. --DavidHOzAu 07:44, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Update the table?
At the moment the table takes up all the page width, making it look way too bulky. We really should keep this template consistent with the über pretty SonicGames template and add a hide button. I suggest that we replace the current table with the one below. --DavidHOzAu 08:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Just checked Sonic's page to see how it looked now that the table closure is fixed, and it is really obvious that they need to be consistent. --DavidHOzAu 08:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Change is done, except for the Hide button. --DavidHOzAu 00:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

 Sonic the Hedgehog series characters Note that I haven't implemented the Hide button because it would cause this and SonicGames to automatically shrink when used on the same page, notably, Sonic the Hedgehog series. Instead, it has an edit button, which is probably more handy anyway. --DavidHOzAu 13:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Due to persistent, layout-destructive edits the [ Edit ] box is now a [ View ] box. --DavidHOzAu 02:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Template upgrade or upheavel?
I was wondering why the template has been edited so drastically. Is it really necessary to have characters listed in manner they now are?--Danish Ranger 19:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a bit too big, plus there are several broken links and a few redirects. --Alexie 01:58, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. If we were going to split it up, (which we aren't,) the last row would be split into 4 (or so) rows based on which spin off a character appears in... but an extra 9?? That's too much, even for this template. I'm adding contains link to this template. --DavidHOzAu 10:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

 * The problem with just dumping every non SoJ game charachter in the "cartoons and comics" section is that, it makes the charachter and the universe in which they appeared look very insignifficant. Another issue is that there probably shouldn't even NEED to be a cartoons and comic section. There should probably be a template that show only the charachters of a specific verse. Which means people can take it upon themselves to make different templates that display charachters based on universe, and assign them to articles (again based on universe).

 * Meaning, if someone's reading up on Sonic Team's Sonic, they should probably just read a small template of the charachters relevant to his (the SoJ games) life. Same with the comic charachters. If I click for instance Sally, when I get to the bottom of her page, I probably don't need to see anything but a template showing charachters very relavant to her universe. SonicMobius 16:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, but it reduces exposure because the comic and cartoon character articles won't benefit from being occaisionally edited by those who stick to game character articles. Eventually Sonic the Hedgehog series will have a section about spin offs, with each spin off having a summary section of about one paragraph each, (for example, The Legend of Zelda series,) so it makes sense to keep all characters in one template.  Besides, there has always been a bit of an overlap between game and anime/manga articles, and splitting content off into different templates is a Content fork and is considered to break WP:NPOV since we in effect have to determine if "this article is Sonic or not." --DavidHOzAu 05:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Collary The exception to WP:POVFORK is if the subsection becomes so large that it deserves its own article in its own right. --DavidHOzAu 06:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

The next layout...
...would be this sane version. --DavidHOzAu 05:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: Currently editing subst'd version. --DavidHOzAu 05:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC) Editing done. --DavidHOzAu 06:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[ View ] Sonic the Hedgehog series characters

If we were going to use another layout, this would be it. Note that there is not 14 or so rows in the table. --DavidHOzAu 06:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

If someone could come up for a different name for "Other" (where Gerald Robotnik is), we could combine the last two rows of this new layout ("Sonic X"' with "Sonic Underground, Adv.") and rename them to "Other", reducing the row count by one. A good start would be something along the lines of "non playing characters" (but shorter), or something else appropriate for those characters. I would then see nothing wrong with updating the template with the new layout because, let's face it, "Television and comics" is getting rather unweildy. --DavidHOzAu 23:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I just came up with "Minor" for the title of "Other", but since Deities isn't minor, settled on "Miscellanea" instead. Since "Other" is free, every spinoff that has less than five characters are on the same line under "Other". I'm willing to update the template to this version. --DavidHOzAu 04:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Update

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed update of the named template. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Result of discussion: Update per no objections. --DavidHOzAu 12:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey and discussion
Please add * Support  or  * Oppose  followed by a brief explanation, then sign your vote using "~~~~".

 * Support It's more organized, and from where I stand provides a larger level of respect and recognition for the storylines these charachters came from SonicMobius 17:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Support. Absolutely perfect. Not 10000000000000 categories, and not too cramped. --Alexie 23:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Silver
It it known that Silver is neutral? Perhaps we should switch him to the "other" section like Princess Elise until the game is released? Or is there any confirmination he is neutral? TMNT Donatello 05:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I think Silver is listed there because he comes back in time to "stop Sonic" from setting off the "Iblis Trigger"... hence the label "Anti-hero" since he is Anti-Sonic. But you are right, he probably is better off under Miscellanea since the game hasn't been released yet. (Note: Ideally, contains link only applies to layout, not to where an article is listed under.) Make the change if you want since it is a justifiable change, like the Chaotix expansion was. --DavidHOzAu 12:41, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Mephiles
Mephiles is more of an anti-hero because of him helping Blaze and Silver discover the truth of Iblis but he did fight Shadow but no one knows if it was for the right or wrong reason.

No, Mephiles wouldn't be an anti-hero, he would be a villain. He was only manipulating Blaze and Silver for his own gain, he fought Shadow because Shadow could have ruined his plans for omnipotence, he killed Sonic and tried to destroy time itself.Michael Mad 16:59, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Echidnas and Mobians
Hi. Just wanted to say i just added the "Echidna (Sonic the hedgehog)" article to the template. I mean, since other "groups" of characters like Badniks, E-series, Aliens and deities are there then so should the Echidnas. Oh, and by the way, the "Mobians" article should be on the template to, but i dont know where to put it. Since there are no "Mobians" in the games it would have to be put in one of the cartoon/comics sections. But in wich one? Most of the toons/comics have mobians in them... Any suggestions?Rattis1 21:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Template size
I think it's too big. How about we do this?

Sonic the Hedgehog  video game characters

Sonic the Hedgehog Comic and TV characters

Anonymous - 12:10 10/28/06

 * Not bad, I rather like the idea of having two templates in one. (Note: I just fixed a minor sizing problem in the first box, and prevented "Sonic the Comic" from wrapping, ok?) Since navigational boxes need a main article, how about the heading rows in the second linking back to Sonic the Hedgehog series because that has a nice overview of each series? Perhaps Sonic the Hedgehog comic and television characters? --DavidHOzAu 04:37, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

This looks far better. Though the second one is still fairly large, it looks decent compared to the gigantic original. The Sonic X links, however, waste space, as their articles are part of the Minor Characters page, so they should be removed, and the others compressed into one section. I think it should look like this: Sonic the Hedgehog Comic and TV characters

Hello2112 00:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Not bad, you've got what I said about the header, but now it is hard to tell where one series ends and another begin. Suggest the best of both worlds? --DavidHOzAu 12:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I just linked the title to the first one; see the first example for the one I like. With this in mind, would anyone object if we change the template to the split version in preparation for creating a template (Sonic characters (other media) or Sonic characters (anime and manga)) that'll have the second navbox? --DavidHOzAu 12:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The first example is good. I did have a problem with distinguishing the characters, and I couldn't figure out how to make the distinction and still have the template compact. So, go ahead and make the templates. Hello2112 22:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Template:Sonic characters (other media): done! --DavidHOzAu 11:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

NO NO NO! This sucks ASS! It is now WAY TO SLAGGIN DIFFICULT to navigate between characters. I mean damn! Coming from one who FREQUENTLY navigates from Shadow to Sonia, this template bites the big one! It was fine the way it was and now it supports "SegaSonic" bias which should NEVER SLAGGIN EVER be tolerated. There needs to be a way to FLAWLESSLY navigate from game characters to non game characters because this this is a COMPLETE AND TOTAL INCONVENIENCE!GrandMasterGalvatron 21:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Sonic the Hedgehog  universe characters

I think that this could be a good way of handling the template, if the current one is so bad. I'd finish the template, but I can't make 'em, heh. -Chao9999 00:07, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit war
I'm not sure what this edit war is all about, but I've protected the template while people work it out on talk. I picked a version at random. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 11:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes...I've been seeing the Babylon Rogues being shifted from Neutral to Villains for quite a while now. I haven't been involved but I will now.  I would say "Villains" seems appropriate because they aren't heroes in the slightest.  However, Jet himself says he has no interest in "world domination or advanced technology", which shows that the Rouges would be in the same group as characters like Fang, Shadow, and Rouge.  While they're not villains per se, they aren't heroes either.  Neutral/Anti Heroes seems to be the best choice for them.GrandMasterGalvatron 14:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

 * All I know is that some guy kept changing GUN from heroes to neutral.
 * EDIT: So, when can we put GUN back in heroes?-Chao9999 20:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Apparently this is still ongoing. I'm going to leave it protected until this is resolved on talk. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:21, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

 * This was ALREADY resolved on a talk page, specifically GUN's talk page. Delsait doesn't seem to want to believe it though. Check the GUN talk page. GUN being in heroes is a result of consensus, and, if I'm not mistaken, defying it is punishible by a temp ban. -Chao9999 03:23, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Link? And you are mistaken. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:42, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Guardian_Unit_of_Nations#Gun.3F_Heroes.3F
 * Regardless of my mistake, there ya go. Regardless of lack of some knowledge, it was agreed that GUN fits into the heroes catagory. -Chao9999 12:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

 * (unindenting) On that page, only three people seem to have ventured an opinion: two people say "heroes" and one person disagrees. That's some consensus. At the very least, I'd classify them as anti-heroes. They do what's right, more or less, but not neccesarily with heroic methods. I'm going to direct you to my suggestion below and say "Hey, this idea might solve the problem. What do you think?" -- Supermorff 17:11, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Like I said Maria and Elise are much more heroic then G.U.N and they are in the Miscellaneous and G.U.N has attempted to kill Sonic many times, Delsait

 * The problem, is that, as only three people argued, and it was two against one, it was an agreement. My point, is that, as any evil GUN has done is speculation or fanon, they should be listed as good. Since the only thing we actually know about them is that they fight to save the earth, they should be in heroes. Delsait, you say that they're turtle torturing, city destroying, child killing maniacs, but that is just your opinion, as we don't actually know what was happening. For all we know, (as I said before) the turtle attacked GUN, for all we know, when they killed Maria, they were aiming for Shadow, for all we know, the Truck going down the hill sequence was an ACCIDENT, and that they decided that they might as well chase Sonic. Not only do we have no idea about what was going on in those scenes, but anything we DO know points them to good, such as leaving you alone if you show that you're not evil, fighting to save the earth, saving the president, and evacuating (at least one city) cities. That's all we know, and as such, they should be listed under heroes until we know more about them. Besides, WHEN did SA2 come out? Four years before Shadow, and Shadow sure did make 'em look loke good guys. And SA2 didn't exactly make 'em look like BAD guys. -Chao9999 23:28, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The turtle couldn't have attacked them because it had no teeth it seemed to be a baby too. And it was said by Gerald in his diary that G.U.N killed people when they got to the ark,and no sane military personel would send a gaint truck,that endangers hundreds of lives to catch one suspected criminal. And like I said,if Elise and Maria are in miscellanious,then gun who is much less heroic should be in miscellanious or neutral. And if they were good,why are they attacking you in Sonic rush. They've done too much morally questionable things to be in heroes,like crushing cars,attacking turtles and killing defensless scientests on the ark. Delsait

 * Ugh, once again, you're jumping to conclusions. Just because the turtle "didn't look like it had teeth, and looked like a baby" doesn't mean that it couldn't attack. And not only was Gerald insane when he wrote the diary, but he didn't specifically state that they killed everyone on the ARK. And once again, the city in City Escape looked quite deserted. And, as has been stated, we DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA what was going on in Rush. If anything, it looked like Eggman built/reprogrammed those robots to trick your character. As I said before, we don't KNOW what was going on. You're filling in the gaps with your own speculation, and that is not allowed on Wikipedia, as you were ALREADY told. Plus, notice how EVERY good person in the games refers to GUN as good? Elise is soon to be in heroes, as she was in Misc because of the fact that the game wasn't out yet. Maria never actually DID anything good, and her role, however influential, was minor. Delsait, you're breaking rules, disagreeing with consensus, and trying to fill in gaps with speculation. PLEASE, just STOP. -Chao9999 01:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * You keep on whining about Conseus yet very only you and one other guy agreed,while there several people here that don't think they belong in heroes,and I haven't broken a single rule. If city escape was empty why were there cars driving around,looked pretty full. And Gerald didn't say they killed everyone on the ark but it was known they killed a lot of people on the ark,Maria was not the only who was killed,Gerald said there was a list of scientest's who died on the ark,so they obviously killed many scientests. How the hell wwould that turtle attack,at best it could just bump into the robots, and when Rouge met it seemed very friendly. Delsait

 * Once again, you're using speculation. In City Escape, there was not ONE moving car (minus the GUN truck). "The ARK was shut down, on the premise that there had been an accident. When I saw the list of those who had died on that tragic day...". That implies that the ACCIDENT killed the scientists, and in Shadow the Hedgehog, this is further strengthened by the "Lost Impact" level. And, as I said before, assuming what the turtle could do is speculation. What if it MISTOOK GUN for enemies? And that "I haven't broken a single rule" thing is false. You're not SUPPOSED to support your claims with original research and speculation. Not to mention, after it was already agreed that GUN was to be in Heroes, you immediatly broke the 3RR. And, if I recall correctly, you aren't exactly the best at contribs, and I site the article "Onox" in which you said his head looked like a KKK sheet. Anyway, my point, is that you have yet to bring anything up that actually supports your claim, all you do is try to insult me, and use speculation. Please, just stop. They're in heroes until they are further elaborated upon. -Chao9999 02:32, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually if you had payed attention,you would notice that the part about Onox was already there before I edited,the article I just wrote that it was probably a creepy coincidence. Besides if it wasn't for me,we'd have pratically no info on the oracle of ages and seasons on the wikipedia series. And 3 people including me disagree with that,theres 71.139.190.113, Supermorf and me which is more then you and Inshannee.  And my claims are verified,they did attack Sonic in Rush,they did attack a turtle,they did kill people on the ark,and they endangered many lives in city escape. Your claims about the turtle attacking G.U.N,the robots in rush not being G.U.N's are completly unverified.  Also even if there was no body there in thar part of town it was still a dangerous and insane thing to do. And probably most of the people who died in that tragic day were killed by G.U.N. And even if it did mistake G.U.N for enemies how could attack them,at best it could just simply bump into them. And can you please cease saying "just stop" over and over again. Delsait

 * Believe what you want to believe, but unfounded specultion and original research don't belong on Wikipedia, and thus, you have lost. That is, unless you actually have a confirmed fact about GUN that denies what was agreed upon, then, by all means, go for it. Until then, you have nothing to support your claims, and I DO have facts to support my claims. -Chao9999 03:41, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Oh yeah what are your facts,you haven't shown a single one. Delsait

 * (unindenting) Ok, now you're just getting ignorant. I think it's pretty obvious that I've won, considering the amount of facts that prove my side, and the lack of any facts that prove Delsait's side. You've failed. Oh, and work on your spelling and grammar please, it can get a bit hard to understand you sometimes. -Chao9999 05:23, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Ah yes your facts,the facts that your not even mentioning. Delsait

 * Well, since you apparently need me to say them AGAIN, the only confirmed facts that we know of are:
 * GUN has tried to save the world
 * GUN has a code of honor
 * GUN has tried to save the world AGAIN
 * GUN has evacuated (at least one) cities of all of it's citizens if danger seems possible
 * GUN has saved the President
 * GUN has put their own lives at immense risk to stop those who threaten Earth
 * GUN has viewed those who hurt the innocent as "monsters"

 * Now, if I'm not mistaken, those all point to good guys.
 * And here is what you have said:
 * GUN has destroyed cities to stop threats, such as when they sent that truck through that deserted city
 * GUN attacks innocent animals, such as when they held a gigantic turtle that looked cute at gun-point
 * All of GUN's members are corrupt, as evidenced by the GUN commander, who doesn't care about the lives of citizens or the earth itself, and only wants to destroy Shadow
 * GUN attacks Sonic and friends whenever they can, as evidenced by the level in Sonic Rush in which the Eggman occupied base had GUN vehicles that attacked Sonic and Blaze
 * GUN attacks innocent people, like when the people on the ARK died, it had to have been GUN.

 * Well, let's see what's wrong with those, shall we?
 * Sending a truck through an evacuated city to catch someone who goes incredibly fast and has caused mass mayhem is NOT irrational
 * A GIGANTIC ANIMAL, who might have sharp teeth, and lot's of strength, not to mention be heavy, and you see some robots next to it. You would have had to have BEEN THERE WHEN THEY CAME to know what happened
 * Uh, one guy. And he only had a personal vendetta against Shadow, and he didn't seem to be very interested in letting citizens die, nor the president
 * We have NO idea what was going on in that level. And, due to the fact that EGGMAN was the boss, if anything, they seemed WAY more like they were reprogrammed/ built by Eggman to fool Sonic
 * Considering that in SA2 Gerald said there was an accident, and in "Shadow the Hedgehog", when we SEE the accident, apparently the scientists were killed by the Artificial Chaos

 * So, as I said, I have FACTS, you have SPECULATION/INCORRECTIONS/OPINIONS.
 * You fail. -Chao9999 09:55, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Okay, and this refers to everyone now, let's stop saying things like "You've failed", "Stop disagreeing with me", "My facts are verified and yours aren't", or "You're dumb". None of these arguments help. Nor does putting thing in capital letters - it just looks impatient and rude. You both have good points, and I'm sure there's a compromise to be reached if you listen to the other person's opinions.
 * Chao9999, I'm sorry to say that two people against one is not consensus. If there was a two to one vote for an Article for Deletion, the result would be "No Consensus". Likewise, Delsait, you don't seem to have many people agreeing with you either. I can't find any comments on this by the anonymous user you mentioned, and my personal opinion is that we should scrap the whole Heroes/Neutral/Villains grouping. Neither of you can claim to have a majority supporting you.
 * I propose we determine what we can agree on and move from there. What do we consider "facts" in this case? Facts are verified in-game, yes? And by verified I mean "spelled out implicitly". GUN is a law enforcement agency. It occasionally does "heroic" things in this capacity. However, GUN has also been opposed to characters such as Sonic, who are definitely heroic in the context of the series, although at least some of these instances of opposition have been caused by mistaken identity. GUN notably invaded space colony ARK. Their reasons for doing this, and precisely what happened therein, and not clear. GUN has occasionally done some morally questionably things while serving the "greater good". In their most recent appearance, GUN is allied with both Shadow and Rouge, both of whom are currently classed as "Anti-heroes". Are any of these non-factual? -- Supermorff 11:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * As I said, what they did on the ARK, they didn't kill the Scientists, the Artificial Chaos did. Also, it's not that GUN is allied with Shadow and Rouge, it's that Shadow and Rouge are working for GUN. Also, as I said, the only places where what they were doing might've been "morally questionable" were times where it might not have actually been GUN (Sonic Rush), where they might not have started it (the turtle in SA2), or when the city was evacuated. As I said, everything I listed as fact is in-game, whereas speculation that has no proof was the second listing. I really don't care if I got consensus or not, my point is that Delsait wants them in neutral/villains/misc, and doesn't actually have any facts to support his claim, and I have brought no speculation, and only used facts, which you may review once more. The only times GUN seems to be evil, are times where one must actually get the whole picture. An example would be how they sent the truck after Sonic. First impression would say that they just killed alot of people, and caused destruction, for no reason. The whole picture, was that "Sonic" (Shadow) had just robbed the federal bank of it's chaos emerald, and destroyed it's guard robots. He then proceeded to go down the "Radical Highway" and destroy tons of their robots, beetles, wings, and other things. They decided to evacuate the City there and send a truck after Sonic. Delsait, I share opinions with you on many things, and don't believe you bad, but you're editing an article on the basis of speculation, and that is against Wikipedia's rules. The Admin InShaneee and I have both agreed that GUN belongs in Heroes, as the only facts of them point them towards being good, but some of their actions, if following first impressions, paint them evil. For everything we know, the only facts so far are that they are good, with actions that seem evil at first, but might actually be good. -Chao9999 13:20, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * You may have identified the crux of the issue. Despite some of his arguments, Delsait has never claimed the GUN are "villains". Most recently, he has only suggested that they be placed in the "miscellaneous" section, and one might argue that "miscellaneous" is rather less restrictive than "heroes". Calling them "heroes" has implications both for their motivation and their methods (just as "antihero" implies only one or the other are benevolent, but not both). That Delsait is arguing this point seems to indicate that GUN's motivation and methods have not been conclusively shown to be heroic. Once again I find myself pointing out the subjective nature of these sections - even Eggman strays into "anti-hero" territory now and then - and I suggest that we group characters more technically. (On a side note, it's an interesting fact about SA2 that not a single character in it seems particularly villainous. I just thought I'd mention it as it occurred to me.) -- Supermorff 18:27, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

 * He wanted them in villians/anti-heroes last time. Anyway, misc implies them to be minor, and GUN is in NO WAY minor. The only confirmed things we know about them point them to good, and thus they should be in good. Whatever their being good implies, they can just read the article. It's not like being in heroes makes you a saint (however much I think GUN is truly heroic). If we were to place them somewhere else:
 * Misc would imply them to be minor
 * Neutral would be implementing speculation, which is not allowed
 * Villain would be out of the question
 * This is why they should be in heroes, it's the only one they fit in so far. If Delsait's opinions were fact, such as us SEEING GUN attack the turtle, then they'd fit into neutral. Unfortunately, their placement in the article has to be based on things confirmed, and the only confirmed things (see my list again) point them towards good. I'm not SAYING that they're good, I'm SAYING that we can only call them good until we can verify claims against them. Until then, they HAVE to be good. -Chao9999 23:06, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Ahem G.U.N is minor they have only had two real important roles in SA2 and Shadow the hedgehog,the rest of their roles were very minor,they only had a cameo in Rush where they were hostile,and they interacted very little with shadow in sonic 2006,next the  only playable  characters who work for G.U.N have been in the neutral anti-hero catagory. And my guess about the G.U.N robots,was that they were after both Eggman and Sonic. And first of all,we don't the city was complety abandoned,thier could be people in the cars just not driving. And before Shadow the hedgehog(the game) came along the original implication in Sonic adventure 2 was that G.U.N was responsible for all the deaths on the Ark. And that turtle did not have teeth,take a look at the things mouth,it was very likely a baby,second of all when Rouge came over to it,it was extremely friendly. And second of all,most human characters are very minor with the exception of Eggman. Delsait

 * Here's a few things to clarify. Firstly, about Sonic Rush. We cannot claim that those robots were being used by GUN, despite the resemblance. Nor can we claim that they were not being used by GUN. We lack information. As for that turtle, we cannot claim that either side is responsible for the standoff, because we don't know. But that doesn't mean that since we don't know, that we ignore GUN's part in it. If we do not know all the facts about a given situation, we can neither dismiss it out of hand nor attach an arbitrary meaning.
 * Chao9999, I've checked previous edits, and Delsait only attempted to place GUN with the "neutral/anti-heroes", but not the "villains". We're all agreed that they are not villains. As for the claim that "Miscellaneous" implies minor characters, I have to disagree. The "Miscellaneous" section should be for characters that do not fit in other sections.
 * I would say that "Miscellaneous" should be the correct home for all characters unless we can establish both their motivation and their methodology. If both method and motivation are benevolent, they are "heroes". If both are somewhat malign, then they are "villains". And for half-and-half situations, then we have "anti-heroes" (the "neutral" terminology only confuses me). In GUN's case, motivation is fairly clear - they are a law enforcement agency with the directive to protect the world. Benevolent. Can we establish beyond any reasonable doubt that their actions are similarly benevolent? If so, then yes they are "heroes", and the matter is settled. If not, then they will have to go in "miscellaneous", minor or not. -- Supermorff 09:44, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

This is EXACTLY what I've been saying. Also, on another note, I think, if we keep the "Good Neutral Evil" terminology, that we should at least split up Misc and Groups. Misc IMPLIES minor, it doesn't mean minor, I know that. And I didn't say that Delsait wanted them in villains, I'm saying that his edits made them out to be villains. Like I said, we base the terminology on facts, not speculation, which isn't to say speculation should be entirely ignored, I'm saying it shouldn't make too much of an impact. All facts say heroes. EDIT: Also, Delsait, having an EXTREMELY major role in two of four appearances is pretty major to me, and if not for GUN, Shadow's story wouldn't have happened. And once again, you didn't even get to SEE the inside of that turtles mouth, you're just speculating on that, as well as the RUSH appearance. And what do you mean by "Most humanoid characters in Sonic are minor, except Eggman"? Eggman and GUN ARE the only humanoid characters! That makes no sense! -Chao9999 13:04, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Very well, would you both be satisfied by one of the following compromises:
 * We rename the "Miscellaneous" section as "Groups and Miscellaneous", and perhaps move some other groups, including GUN, into it?
 * We create a new section called "Groups", separate from "Miscellaneous", to for articles such as GUN and Black Arms (but not Black Doom)?
 * PS. Gerald, Maria and Elise are all humans. -- Supermorff 14:40, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

What I mean by that is all humans besides Eggmen have unplayable(unless you can't the brief moment you control Maria in Shadow). Delsait

 * Exactly! Unplayable! Isn't that a much more sensible criterion by which to organise characters? Although my previous suggestion about a "Groups" section is still there. -- Supermorff 19:39, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Ahem...what turtle are you all talking about? I don't remember any giant turtle anywhere other than Sonic Heroes. Also, it's fairly clear that the one soldier shot Maria at point blank rage. He was aiming way too high to be targeting Shadow. Gerald said that the ark was shut down under the premise that there had been an accident. It's made clearly obvious in SA2 that GUN stormed the place because they didn't like what was going on, and used the "Accident" as a cover up. GUN's motives are questionable...yes. But they are also in good faith. I would say that they are Heroes in the sense that their only aim is to protect the world from all threats at any cost. However, their role is about equal to that of Cream or the Black Arms, whose appearances are relatively minor. It's about the same as Maria. She is a major part of Shadow's life and history, but for all intents and purposes, she is a minor character....same with Tikal. GUN simply doesn't make enough appearances to be counted as a major character.

Simply put...if we are going for faction, they should be Heroes. If we are going for relevance, they should be Minor. As for that template, Fang and Metal are not NPCs. Fang is playable in Sonic the Fighters and Metal has numerous playable appearances...including Sonic Rivals. I actually don't think that template is a good one. In fact, I'm still not pleased with the game characters only template. I think the template was best as it was earilier before it was broken in two. It was WAY more functional that way.GrandMasterGalvatron 23:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Make the "Groups" section, that's what I've been saying would be an alternative to heroes. Also, when you look at Maria, then Shadow, you'll notice that she's not that much taller than him, I'd say that he could've been aiming for Shadow, but missed, or Maria took the his instead, although that's still speculation. -Chao9999 03:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Is the following acceptable as a solution to this dispute? Header has been removed so that it doesn't shrink automatically. -- Supermorff 18:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Add a link to the other universe template and it's good to go.GrandMasterGalvatron 18:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Genius. I hadn't thought of that. Better? -- Supermorff 19:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's all good with me :) GrandMasterGalvatron 20:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Points out that I suggested this long ago* yeah. This is TEH best version so far EVAR. -Chao9999 08:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Not that anyone cares, but as a person who use to flick through the sonic characters, i think the way the layout is now is by far the best its been in a while, and i like how there is a link to "other characters" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob.John.Mackay (talk • contribs) 22:22, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Overhaul
It's much improved, but I'm still not entirely happy with the "Hero/Neutral/Villain" designations we've got here. And it's not because the ones on the template right now are badly categorised - they're not - but it's because there's potential for dispute (some of the discussions on this page are proof of that). As a suggestion, we could divide characters into two broad categories: "Playable" characters and "Non-playable" characters. We'd need to decide which games count for "playable" (Fang the Sniper is playable only in one of the fighting games, I believe), but in any case all the major characters (almost all those we've classified currently as "heroes" or "anti-heroes", as well as Eggman) would be classed as "playable". If we wanted to subdivide further, we could split "playable" into "light" and "dark" (in the style of SA2, or Sonic Heroes), but that would probably need more discussion. However, it should solve the problems raised by characters such as GUN and Babylon Rogues, and maybe some others. It probably needs tweaking, as an idea, but is it workable? -- Supermorff 16:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

How is this, as a potential replacement template? I've grouped the characters according to whether they are playable in only the main games of the series (so not including Sonic the Fighters or any of the racing games before Sonic Rivals). In each section they're alphabetical, although I've put Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and the character lists to the head of their respective sections. These are fairly clear-cut categories, so the hope is that this could put a stop to some of the disputes seen elsewhere on this talk page. What do people think? -- Supermorff 19:56, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Finally I've had feedback on this (in the Edit war section above). Thanks GrandMaster Galvatron. It's criticism, but I can live with that. I've moved Fang and Metal Sonic to the "playable section". Playable now refers to all games, but not unlockable/secret characters (e.g. Tikal in SA2 or Chaos from Sonic Battle). Now it looks a bit top-heavy, but I still think this idea, once finalised, is the best way of solving disputes arising from the Heroes/Anti-heroes/Villains structure we have at present. Who agrees, disagrees, or feels they could improve on the idea? -- Supermorff 18:42, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Eggman is not fully Evil anymore.
We should put Eggman in anti-heroes scince he has always help save the world and ever scince the Adventure univurse began, he lost the title of main villain. SoundPound500000 November 23, 2006 9:48 p.m.

 * You will never get a consensus on that. Eggman is still a villain. You're right that he's rarely the main villain of a game any more, and he does have an odd tendency to help save the world, but he is still primarily a villain. Of course, for a compromise you could check out my suggestion above. -- Supermorff 17:24, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Is Mighty a hero or "other" character?
For some pages, it shows him as a hero but some have him as an "other" character. Could someone clear this up?Aramjm 23:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

 * In his two appearances to date, he is a hero. But he is no longer a mainstay of the franchise, and thus with only two appearances he is fairly minor ("other"). -- Supermorff 18:24, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Minor villains
In case anyone hasn't noticed, there is a new article that should be featured in the Miscellaneous section of the template: Minor villains in Sonic the Hedgehog. This thing is about all the villains who don't qualify for their own articles, and is an effort to be more organized when it comes to minor characters. If there's anyone who can edit the template, I respectfully request that you add this article. User:Denjo

Split of foolishness
Ok...this template needs a bit of a redesign. Having two character templates is still a MASSIVE inconvenience for the reader who doesn't wish to separate continuities and wants to seamlessly navigate between character. I'm actually thinking of redesigning the whole thing from the ground up so that there is only one concise FUNCTIONAL template (as there should be).

I've seen a few horizontal templates on other series that can fit entire groups on one row. I think this is a better idea as opposed to the ugly centered thing existing now. Layout and formatting suggestions?GrandMasterGalvatron 19:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

 * No, but be careful. If it gets anything like the ugly mess it was in before, it will be split again. Still, a complete overhaul might work... Good luck to you. -- Supermorff 20:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I dunno if thid belongs here, but...
With the Sonic characters that get official art in the Sonic Channel site, should we put that art as the main pic in their articles? After all, it's what the official website uses to represent the characters in general, and not as seen in a particular game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Eriorguez (talk • contribs) 23:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
 * You're right, this doesn't belong here. The best place to discuss things is Sonic's talk page, Shadow's talk page, or the series' talk page, as that's where everyone hangs out.  As for your question: the existing consensus is "do not use them if there is no evidence that these images will become the new standard for the characters."  Comprende vous? —davidh.oz.au 06:05, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Name section "Dark/Neutral" or "Antihero/Neutral" or just "Neutral"?
I posted this under "Classification" some time ago:
 * "It looks like this is an old discussion but... maybe the anti-heroes/neutral section should be renamed the "Dark/Neutral" section like how Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes had the "Dark side" and "Team Dark." Dark seems to better describe the murky or clouded alignment of those characters who are neither hero or villian - and its canon. Cigraphix 03:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)"

You misunderstood what I said in that edit: "SA2's Dark Story and Heroes' Team Dark prove that Sonic Team consistantly calls ShTH/RTB/E123 "Dark" b/c their alignment is questionable, "/Neutral" covers everyone else who is neither Hero or Villian" — Dark and Neutral are as different from, yet similar to, each other as the groups and species in the "Groups/Species" section: Dark and Neutral are both in-betweens of Hero and Villian. Neutral characters are definitely not Heroes or Villians, but Dark characters are "questionable" as they can go any of the three ways (Hero, Neutral, Villian). Therefore I was not saying that Shadow/Rouge/Eggman were Neutral in SA2, but they blurred the line between Hero and Villian because they were not the true villians of the story and they worked with the heroes at the end (I also want to add that Eggman has not been consistantly Dark, and has played Villian more than the others, so he should be listed under Villian - just clarifying). What I wrote in the hidden text in the template was meant so that one person would not list Shadow and Rouge as Heroes again. As for "Anti-Heroes," according to its Wikipedia page, the term's meaning has changed over the years, so it does not seem to be a good description to use in the template (although it is fine in individual articles). There is a stronger problem with using it since the term does not seem to apply well to Rouge, as she seems to often do heroic things to achieve a more villinous goal - become rich as "The World's Greatest Theif," which isn't covered by "Anti-Heroes," who normally do the opposite: do villinous things to achieve a heroic goal. Lastly, I don't recall any official material (games and manuals) calling any of them an Anti-Hero. So if Dark is still rejected, just naming the section "Neutral" seems best. Cigraphix 18:19, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Nobody is responding so I'm putting "Dark" back in until someone does. Cigraphix 17:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"Dark" seems more of a team name than a personality description or allignment. Antihero is a more neutral label. MindWraith 05:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well their names are often descriptive of the Sonic characters in some way, and I did detail above how it applies quite well to them. But you never touched my arguements against anti-heroes (such as how Shadow seems to be the ONLY anti-hero listed since he does villianous things for a more heroic goal (or at least what he thinks is right), while Rouge and Omega do heroic things for more villianous goals - theft and conquer the world respectively). Also how does anti-hero seem to be more "neutral"? Anti-heroes seem to be heroes who will do bad things to achieve a heoric goal, not exactly neutral. I think Dark better covers those who flip/flop between heroes and villians. Cigraphix 17:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, so it seems the only way to encourage meaningful discussion here is to change the template back. Cigraphix 22:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Silver
Why is Silver in the anti-heroes section? I'm putting him back in the heroes section.

Blaze
So wait, what happened to Blaze? She suddenly became an unimportant "other" character? If she is than Chaos should be too, seeing as he has 2 appearances and Blaze has several including 3 story important roles, an appearance in Mario and Sonic, and a multiplayer appearance in Riders 2 and Secret Rings. She's more important to the Sonicverse than Chaos and yet he's got his own article and a spot on this template? Please explain to me how this tomfoolery makes any sense at all, because I'm confused. Edit: Wow. You just "fixed" what wasn't broken. You people are as bad as Sonic Team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.25.51.224 (talk) 16:11, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Chronological versus alphabetical
I strongly disagree with listing characters by when they first appeared. Doing so clearly caters to an in-universe perspective; alphabetical, however, holds no bias, and remains useful for everyone. The dates are blatantly unimportant, too. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 21:42, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * How is that in-universe? It's release date, not in-game chronology. Tezero (talk) 18:06, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Proposed reorganization
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sega czar  ♔  00:37, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

sonic songs
hiiiiiiiiiiiiii! my name is Jamie and my favriote song is follow me  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.221.34.204 (talk) 23:43, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * That's a good one, though my personal favorites from Adventure 2 are It Doesn't Matter, Aquatic Mine, Sky Rail, and Mad Space. In the future, though, please use talk pages to discuss possible improvements to their associated articles or templates. (Of course, if you're bringing up your favorite song in the context of a larger point about the page, that's fine.) Tezero (talk) 00:04, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Purpose?
After the massacre, why does this have enough content to stand on its own? I suggest it be merged into the main Sonic template. Tezero (talk) 21:59, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Normally, I'd agree, but the main one is already so big, I'm not fond of adding yet another 5-10 more to it. Especially while people keep adding these tangentially related items like Somari and Freedom Planet to the main one. I think we should keep the character one. Sergecross73   msg me  23:31, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, those are fangames like After the Sequel is. It's stuff like Ristar and every member of Sonic Team that I don't understand. Tezero (talk) 00:19, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * At least Ristar is actually made by Sega/Sonic Team, and was basically created in Sonic brainstorming sessions. I do agree that all the members of Sonic Team should be removed though, that was not my idea. But regardless, it's still massive and crowded even if we removed all the titles we both are suggesting to remove. Sergecross73   msg me  01:46, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I wonder if there isn't a better way to reorganize the articles related to this franchise altogether. I remember that Mario and Pokémon wall off the spinoffs - I'm not personally a fan of that in either case as it separates some games from others while including non-game articles with one of those categories, but it's an idea. Tezero (talk) 02:10, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * It could be possible, but the main difference here is that the Sonic fanbase gets all in a tizzy about which games are "main" or "spinoffs". Nobody argues silly stuff like whether or not Mario Party 5 is "canon" or whatnot. Not the case with most things Sonic. I wouldn't want to separate them, or it'll probably just start up more of those arguments. (Or redundant entries on both templates being added all the time.) And there really aren't enough of any sub-category, like "Sports", to warrant another template. (Again, contrary to Mario) Also, I mean, if you look through the template history, the template really isn't all that much smaller than what it was in 2012-2013, before you started your expansion attempts this year. I think it just looks smaller at the moment because its entirely flat, with just one level, at the moment. Sergecross73   msg me  15:13, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * At the moment? Oh, come on, do you actually think any characters are ever going to become notable? Sure, there are a few articles on Sticks, but she's in the same situation as the Wisps were: they're all in the context of what she appears in. (For the record, the template's actually larger than it was then; Big is the sole survivor.) Tezero (talk) 17:36, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand me. The "At the moment" remark was in regards the template's layout. "At the moment", all the characters are presented on a single line, opposed to past iterations, where it had been split up into several lines. (I think it was something along the lines of "Good Guys", "Bad Guys", "Races", etc.) My point was that if it was split into 2-3 lines again, it'd look like exactly how it has for the last few years. It was an argument as to why it's fine to just keep it as it is - its been through a lot of change in size 2014, but comparatively less when you look at past sizes. Sergecross73   msg me  17:43, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I changed it to the multi-level format way back when. IIRC, that was taken down because it's somehow original research which characters go where (but somehow it isn't to say that one game's a spinoff and another isn't without sources). Tezero (talk) 17:56, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh thats right, I forgot about those discussions, but I did some digging and found them. I didn't oppose your first proposal, though I didn't like the "Eras introduced" layout. But it is hard to define some some of the characters like Shadow or Rouge, so I understand Czar/Red Phoenix's concerns too. Anyways, there's 10 items currently on the list. I think that's enough to support a template, unless there's some obscure template policy/guideline I'm unaware of. Sergecross73   msg me  19:44, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I can see how Shadow and Rouge would be controversial; I think I proposed placing them with Eggman because he (without Metal Sonic for obvious reasons) would've been the only pure villain, but there we are. I doubt there's any official guideline - heck, there's a template for the Jet Set Radio series (why does that article even exist? It's just one game and a sequel) - it just seems like it'd be cleaner as part of the larger one. Tezero (talk) 20:12, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Sonic characters