text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Harry Potter related websites

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. Redwolf24 02:00, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

List of Harry Potter related websites
Mere list of links to websites, cfr. What Wikipedia is not Cnyborg 12:29, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep.or maybe merge --Gearspring 00:52, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. While I agree with the Wikipedia policy quoted by the nominator, I think we have to consider the big picture.  While we could merge the list with Harry Potter fandom, that article is already very long.  Given the depth of coverage of Harry Potter in Wikipedia – there are literally hundreds of articles – a centralized list of external links which is incorporated into the structure of the series articles is the most efficient and comprehendible solution.  Anything else will be worse for Wikipedia. -- DS1953 16:21, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as explained by DS1953 Kappa 17:05, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, and move to List of Harry Potter-related websites. --Gabriel Beecham/Kwekubo 17:48, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see why this can't be merged back into Harry Potter fandom. If the explanations about the sites are kept short and put on the same line as the link this could take very little space. If merging isn't performed, I vote keep and rename and like to see a note at the top explaining why this list of links has been seperated from the article. - Mgm|(talk) 18:25, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete with force. Are we writing an encyclopedia or a web directory? --Pjacobi 18:29, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Gateman1997 20:11, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete or change WP:NOT to say that we are trying to duplicate Google. Zoe 20:17, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete, regardless of Potter's popularity Wikipedia is not a repository of links. Merge some of the more popular with Harry Potter fandom and delete. K1Bond007 21:07, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wikipedia is neither Google nor the Open Directory Project. --Carnildo 22:06, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete As above --PhilipO 22:57, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Seems perfectly clear. As noted by nominator, a) Wikipedia articles are not mere collections of external links or Internet directories. That's been in WP:NOT in various forms for at least two years. b) This page is a mere list of links. Ergo, this page is not a Wikipedia article. Which form of syllogism is that? Celarent? Dpbsmith (talk) 23:43, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep If you don't like people splitting articles, challenge the policy that a size warning comes up when they hit a few thousand words. Osomec 02:22, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete WP:ISNOT a webdirectory, doesn't matter how popular the topic. If there were that many links in another article, the list should have been kept where it was an mercilessly pruned. -Splash 02:53, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. WP is not etc.  -Sean Curtin 02:59, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a web directory.  All these links should just be listed under external links in the main Harry Potter page.  (Notorious4life 04:36, 19 August 2005 (UTC))
 * Delete. were not a web directory Fledgeling 04:39, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, don't merge elsewhere. -- Norvy (talk) 06:16, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, Just a list of external links. Sjakkalle (Check!)  07:47, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong delete, per WP:NOT. Proto t c 09:49, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. We are not a web directory.  Tempshill 17:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * delete, a selection should already be on the main articles. --TimPope 07:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - we're not a fansite --fpo 18:36, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
File:Christer climbing in el chorro.jpg

Christer Edvartsen climbing a route called La Pregiera Tonta on the Polvorin wall in El Chorro, Spain. The picture was taken by Andreas Westberg.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: File:Christer climbing in el chorro.jpg


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Historical persecution by Jews

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP. This has somehow become nearly unanimous! Perhaps the processes and consensus building do work, after all. -Splash 01:20, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Historical persecution by Jews
A previous version of this article was nominated for deletion on 19 July. See Votes for deletion/Religious persecution by Jews. Despite a majority of opinions to delete, the closing admin determined that it failed to meet the necessary standard of "rough concensus". The first VfD was closed as a "no concensus" decision. The decision to close the first debate was reversed by another administrator. The reversal was deemed to be out-of-process and was itself reverted. It was discussed several places including here, here and here. In the meantime, a Vote for Undeletion was formally opened. See here. Given the circumstances, the vote for undeletion was also considered by some to be out-of-process. Again, there was a majority opinion to delete (or redelete) the article but this time, the vote-count was even closer than in the VfD decision. I am returning this to VfD for a second discussion.

I note that the article has been moved to a different title and that it has been extensively edited since the first VfD began. I encourage everyone to carefully re-read the article and decide again based on the merits and weaknesses of the current version.

This is a procedural nomination. Do not interpret this nomination as a "delete" vote. Rossami (talk) 12:32, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * No vote. But by having "participated" in this debate, I will most definitely not be closing this debate. (I wouldn't have done so in any case, anyway). Sjakkalle (Check!)  12:38, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Errr. We have Religious persecution by Muslims and Religious persecution by Christians. Echoing previous commenters, this article is not great, but the topic is valid -- even if the finally NPOV'd entry is something akin to "not much." Sdedeo 13:00, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment I've no strong feeling here -except all three should be treated in the same way. I'm not sure that generic 'persecution by' articles can be NPOV. They assume an historic contunuity between persecutors that is debatable - and that persection was done 'as Jews' or ' as Muslims'. The Islamic article has been moved to Religious conflict and Islam. That's not great either, but if  it's allowed to stand then the same treatment should be given to the other articles. Indeed, I'm tempted to add both of them to this Vfd so that all are kept, deleted or renamed alike. Anyone second that? --Doc (?) 13:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't. Then there'd be questions about the validity of the VfD, and the "rough consensus" would be harder impossible to determine.  If each had its own VfD, that would be a good thing in the long run, but would generate more heat than light in the very short term.  Also, it's usually seen as bad when a single editor nominates an entire group of article. Wiki is all about teamwork, you know. ^_^ -  brenneman (t) (c)  14:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * OK - because of teamwork, I suggested it but didn't do it (unilateral is v. bad :{) - your response makes sense --Doc (?) 14:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep all three. Legitimate topics, although a close eye will have to be kept on them to keep (particularly the Jewish and Muslim ones) from descending into racism. --Scimitar parley 13:57, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep all three, again. ElBenevolente 15:37, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep all three, just like last time. Shem(talk) 16:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral but if good reasons are given for delete, you may change my vote to delete, I'm going on vacation. Just because other topics have a "persecution by" doesn't mean all groups have to.  Right now this article feels like a token attempt to keep things "fair".  My sense though is the article doesn't need deletion yet but does require serious cleanup.  The article is verging very close to origional research, I'm almost tempted to say it might be worth wiping out the article and starting from scratch.  Opening your religious text of choice and finding what you want is origional research.  I'd be much more comfortable with this article if it was using academic sources which are explicitly mentioned.
 * unsigned comment by user:Graniterock. Please remember to sign your comments.
 * Keep — let's all stand in a big circle and flog each other until somebody says, "Uncle". :) — RJH 17:04, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, perfectly valid. Christopher Parham (talk) 17:31, 2005 August 18 (UTC)
 * Keep but the title should be made consistent with the others. Why should Christians and Muslims have religious and Jews historical persecution?  Can we revert to the orig. title? 20:41, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * unsigned comment by user:Dottoreso who, I suspect, added 5 tildes instead of 4
 * They don't. All three have been called "historical persecution by..." for some while now. Paul B 10:22, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * addendum: the Muslim one has now been renamed Religious conflict and Islam. Unfortunate, to say the least. All three should have the same title. Paul B 11:17, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment I wonder if 'historical' might be better for all three. Religious is ambigious - does it imply persecution of other religions (and thus exclude ethnic or cultural groups who were persecuted) or does it imply persecution for solely religious reasons (and thus exclude political or economic motivations)? --Doc (?) 20:50, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak delete. As of now, while miles better than the old article it remains a low-quality article with too much original research. In the alternative, VfD all of them per Doc's comments above for purposes of renaming under a broader, possibly more accurate, and surely a less inflammatory Religious conflict and XXXX moniker. --Flawiki 22:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep I'd like to see where this one is headed. --Dysepsion 22:42, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep The request to carefully evaluate the article is invalid, we are not here hand out grades. This is clearly a legitmate topic. Osomec 02:25, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep There is no sense in deleting one and leaving the others.Heraclius 14:49, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete The article barely contains any "meat". --Michaelk 06:37, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * keep. I voted to delete last time because the article was called Religious persecution by Jews but contained no examples of religious persecution! The current article contains sufficient examples to justify its existence. The subject is of real historical interest. Also, to delete just this one of the three articles would fuel complaints of "bias". Anyone who looks at the three together can judge for themselves just how "persecutory" Jews have been in comparison to Christians and Muslims. It's better to give people all the facts than suppress material and fuel resentments. Paul B 10:19, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Closing one eye and keeping two open would not show an objective face. A triclopean face, yes, but not an objective one. --Agamemnon2 15:14, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I suppose its possible to merge with Christianity, having Historical persecution by Judeo-Christians, but this has undoubtably existed just maybe no on the same level as Islam, Christianity, or Hinduism.Falphin 23:41, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:Extreme Makeover: Home Edition

Name & Format
Who came up with the name and format of the show? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.207.87 (talk) 15:49, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi my name is jacquelyn taulbee and my fiancé is captain bobby spencer of the clay city ky fire dpet. These men and women give their life for people. They give up their time with their families to volunteer their life and time to help people in car wrecks homes that are burning and they run in burning buildings to save people not even thinking bout their self. They put their own life on the line for other people that dont even think about the dept until they need them. They are in need of their dept to be updated and they need proper gear that they can not afford they do not get paid for what they do they are all volunteers and they are incredible in what they do. I never realized how much they do until my fiancé showed me and opened my eyes. I am amazed by their will and the care they show on every call they recive. They all are like family and they love what they do. They are passionate about what they do. They just need alittle help and thats what i am ask you for. If you want to contact me my number is 6064814419 Nikia84 (talk) 19:26, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Cost procedures
I'm curious if anyone knows how the financial situation works between the network and the family. I would assume that ABC would have to buy the house and land in order to do the renovations to the extent that they do. Futhermore the property tax that the family would be left with could be too much for many of them. Are there contractual agreements for ABC to pay the tax? Is the family required to live there for a specified period of time before they can sell it and move someplace less costly? Anyone know the answers to these questions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Schalicto (talk • contribs) 12:30, 18 August 2005

Having indirectly worked with the show, and seen two homes here locally get 'made over", it is run kinda like the story of "Stone Soup"... ABC and the producers pick a family, and then go to the businesses and people of that community, and beg for donations of time, labor, materials, and, oh yeah, money.  No contracts exist to my knowledge regarding home resale or tax liabilities.  ABC sets it all up, has everyone pay for the bulk of it, and takes all the credit. Check-Six 02:02, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I can't speak for local laws on property taxes, but the federal gift tax is avoided by a loophole that allows for the tax-free "improvement" of rental property. In essence, ABC rents the property from the family for the week. The family is payed in improvements to the property. In this case, the improvement is usually the demolition and construction of a new house. 63.246.163.240 05:17, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

From what I understand, the "rent" they are given is substantial enough to set up a situation where the interest pays off the difference between the new property tax and what they had before. However, I don't have proof of this anywhere.72.241.2.141 (talk) 08:46, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Overhaul
This page is in need of an update -- grammar errors, cast members, etc...

My question is this: Most of these families are having serious financial problems. They're struggling to pay their bills, including the mortgage. Yes, ABC is doing great things to improve their homes and lifestyles...BUT....their financial situations are still the same, right? I've seen several shows where the builder works to pay off the mortgage, but not on every episode.

As to answer this question, the truth of the matter is that the financial problems these families are suffering from are no different from the ones millions of other families have been facing since the recession. Not too long ago there was an article about how Larry and Judy Vardon of Oak Park, MI nearly lost their house built by the show to foreclosure. The root of this problem was not the makeover itself, but the fact that the main source of income for the family was Larry's job in Detroit's auto industry. He was among thousands of workers in that industry laid off during the recession. Another example was the Wafford Family. The family was in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and they came close to losing the house over an error in the loan they had taken out. The bank noted that the problem was not because of the makeover, but because of a lack of financial planning, which for a family of nine can quickly get out of control. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.83.43.49 (talk) 00:41, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Criticism
I am the one who wrote the sections on the criticism because I feel that a lot of people are missing the point of the show. I've been an avid viewer since the show started, have volunteered twice with them, and have had discussions with Ty, some of the designers and crew. The reason I support this show is because they promote values which I believe are going to go extinct if programs like this stop advocating them. I take it seriously to point out the true intentions of the show to people who just don't seem to get the picture.

First, they advocate helping families in need in a smart, productive manner. When I say smart manner of helping people, I mean that they help families who give of themselves towards others in order to promote the common good, such as those who participate in groups and organizations which support others struggling with challenges such as grieving, illnesses, disabilities and other handicaps. Other good reasons these families are chosen are to advocate against criminal activity such as drunk driving and domestic violence, advocate for supporting and honoring veterans, police, firefighters and other law enforcement which keep the public safe. Each episode is written out to have one of these lessons tucked within it.

Now, a criticism I hear too often is made in regards to giving too much to a single family and talk about giving to charities and homeless families instead. While I am in favor of giving to such causes, the truth of the matter is that giving to these causes must be done in a specific manner. If the show went around giving new houses to every person with a maxed out credit card, then that element of advocacy would be worthless. In addition, giving to others in that manner is risky business because at times it becomes too easy for people to take advantage of, and in turn does not yield much contribution to the common good.

The main reason they focus on one family at a time is so that viewers can get a glimpse at how people deal with certain problems in their lives and how much something like what the show helps to accomplish for the family can make an enormous difference in their lives. For example, the Burns Family was a family they helped out earlier in the show. Their youngest son suffered from brittle bone disease and had broken nearly twenty bones by the time he had reached school age. That family came to the makeover I volunteered with first and what I had heard was in the three years since their makeover, their son had broken only three bones, all of which had happened outside the house.

Does anyone know of any criticism for this pap? I've seen every episode, and I know that it's really an hour-long commercial for sears etc. I can't be the only one who has noticed this, nor can I be the only one who finds trite such formulaic tugging of the heart strings. Turly-burly 12:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Noted the criticism in the PopReview article. Wish I could find more.  Turly-burly 04:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * If every long-form commercial resulted in improving the lives of people who much more often than not were victim to something beyond their control, I'm not sure it would be bad. Of course it's a commercial, of course it's made to be heart-wrenching...but the heart-wrenching leads to viewers, and viewers lead to advertisers, and advertisers lead to money and donations that can be used on the houses.  ...just a possible insight into the difficulty in finding criticism.  (That, and anyone who criticizes will immediately get attacked as hating people who have little money/are victims of {disaster/disease}, so I imagine most potential criticizers just find something else. ;) ) --24.23.84.46 01:05, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Response to Question Above The reason Sears plays such a large role on the show is because Sears is one of their largest sponsors, and they need a way to pay for all the stuff Sears gives them. It's called capitalism, and its hardly exploitative when the family chooses to participate knowing the presence of Sears in the show.

 * It seems like we should be able to find some more articles on criticism, though. I mean, a bunch of things jump to mind right off the bat. The idea that they're putting these houses in neighborhoods which are completely inappropriate is the first thing, but is only touched on briefly in the criticism section. Similarly, I often question the practicality of these houses. Will the family have to pay to refurbish Junior's room when a pirate theme is no longer appropriate? And how do you sell a house that has five bedrooms and two bathrooms -- one of which has five sinks and two showers?

Response to Question Above There's hardly anything wrong with people wishing to build houses of unique, modern styles, as it represents a pattern of architecture which has been developing for decades. From what I've seen, the houses are designed to fit the individual needs of the family. In families with lots of kids, one must remember that each of those kids is going to have friends and classmates over to the house, and if the parents are socially active they will have family, friends, church groups, sports teams and other organizations in the house.

The fact is that the issue of refurbishing a house, regardless of its size, is going to happen with every house.

The rooms designed for kids in various themes all have one thing in common, they're easily adaptable for when the kids grow older. I know because I've helped set up many of them.

As for the process of constructing these houses, the process of doing this is as follows. As soon as a family is selected by the executive producers, they use information on the family to draw up the house plans, and then begin seeking out a contractor. Once the contractor is selected, the plans are handed over and a large portion of the house begins to come together in small sections, which makes the process of making sure the houses are built properly much more efficient.

Finally, among the main reasons I take so strongly to addressing these criticisms is because of the fact that some of these problems described in these pessimistic comments have ridiculously simple solutions. If you know someone who is in need of a helping hand, don't sit around and wait for Extreme Makeover: Home Edition to do it. After all, it's only one show and there are so many people out there. Therefore, try getting out of your house and volunteering to make someone else's life better, which the show profusely advocates multiple times in every episode. They aren't the only ones capable of helping others; we all have the capability. The same can be said about those who criticize the manner in which the makeovers are carried out, which to some extent almost sounds like Socialist propaganda at times. There is no law against or harm done in living in a big house.

To be honest, most of what I've seen is basically people venting over their own emotional problems. The best explanation for this would have to be found in Taylor Swift's Mean

P.S. I'm an optimist. Deal with it.

 * I don't really even think the Sears aspect is as troubling as what I mentioned above. Product placement is a simple fact of life in modern day TV. --Wolf530 04:57, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

 * My question would be, why are you so determined to find criticism? The criticism that exists already can hardly be called NPOV. Sounds more like pseudo-Communist ramblings. JettaMann 22:33, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The only criticism I have is rather weak and adds to the criticism brought up above. The rooms they build and decorate for, say, a kid who is ten, is very ten-year-oldish. What happens 18 months from now when they grow out of it? I think they could... tone down the way they design the children's rooms instead of just covering the room in whatever the flavor of the week is. BrainRotMenacer 21:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I have enjoyed the show over the year, a real tear jerker sometimes. However the show about the family in Lincoln, NE was weak. I sure wish the show was on when I first got divorced so they could have built me a house.

 * The property tax issue is a major one. See this webpage about a family that can't pay the property taxes after EMHE redid their house. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070108/FEATURES01/701080359 And there's also a potential income tax issue: if the improvements to the home get classified as gameshow or lottery winnings, then they are taxable income. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/05/tax_consequence.html Jaysbro 01:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The second link can't be used directly because it is a blog, but if you could find the Newsweek article it mentions, that would be perfect. The first one I'd be very careful how you worded the information though. It would be very easy to twist what the article is saying and introduce ideas that are anti-subject... I would word it something like "After the makeover is complete, assessment values often rise and homeowners have difficulty meeting their new tax level. Congressmen in some states are working towards resolving tax laws to avoid such issues." Something like that, closer to what the article is saying, rather than the usual "Extreme Home Makeover gives no thought to the rising land values after the so-called makover, leaving the disabled homeowner in worse shape than they were before" that I would expect from the usual critics.--Arkcana 02:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The question that bugs me the most about the show is the quality of the construction. While I'm sure that all of the people who build the houses are experts, the idea of crafting a house in seven days, especially some of the massive houses I've seen built on the show, seems too haphazard to be true.  Has there been any documented case of any of the houses built on the show suffering damage or extensive need for post-construction repairs or touch-ups?  Willbyr (talk | contribs) 20:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Can't access google at the moment but was there not an episode where later it was revealed that the person they built the house for was an ex-con? Also the Lincoln NE episode locally was spoke out against from people who knew them and didn't see the need of the family. I should check local paper back issues for it, unless someone can cite first. --Xiahou 02:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I found it. It was actually in my hometown and I knew the family. The girl in particular was recently in a drunk driving incident herself actually.

Seems the post above was posted by someone who did not signed. Anyway, my post is below. Extreme Makeover does not appear to be about providing for needy people. It's all about RATINGS. I've seen homes (which many people would love to have) destroyed without regard for their potential to house a different needy family with different needs. An example would be a nice brick home they destroyed, because the current family needed a wheelchair friendly home, but that same home would have made a different family very happy! Waste is not entertaining. In some episodes multiple TVs are placed in the bedroom of one child. Why so many? Another episode gave multiple guitars to a small child who likes guitars. Everyone knows the people doing this show are collecting big bucks, so why focus on tears, hugs, and some disgusting loud-mouth who takes center stage? Why not provide enough help to make a family comfortable and secure, and then move on to another family with needs. I wonder how many views feel that this show wastes far too much time and resources, and would watch more often if it was not as extreme. If people start turning the channel, maybe the sponsors will do an extreme makeover of their own. CynTalk (talk) 01:46, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I wonder about the legitivity of the "leaked email" mentioned in the "Critisism" section. The website it is sourced from seems like a typical "Conspiracy Theory" site. Is it a good reference? KatCassidy (talk) 11:31, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

A side note: While I am not sure of the validity of this something you might want to look into is that The show refuses to work in at least one state (vermont) due to it not having its sponsers with in the state. It apparently did one home in the state and will no longer do it again. I know this to be partly true because I have been trying to wrangle a house for a very needy family but they have sent me refusals due to "inadaquate support." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.83.187 (talk) 01:46, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

50 more episodes coming?
Commercials being aired around Summer 2006 seem to show Ty P. saying that the show is going to do a tour of the U.S. and visit every state. If that's to be believed, ABC may be planning to air another 50~ episodes. --24.23.84.46 01:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

keishajacquet32@yahoo. Company keishajacquet @dcc.education. homeless hurricanes Katrina 2005 KeishaJacquet (talk) 21:42, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Marlee Matlin
This page lists Marlee Matlin as a new cast member, but I believe she's a one-episode celebrity guest host. Am I wrong? - 208.107.8.49 01:42, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Judgement against five orphaned siblings
I added updated news on the lawsuit against Extreme Makeover by the siblings...

Country of origin?
This wiki article states that the country of origin for this show was the United States. However, I do recall watching a Korean version of the show called "love house", pronounced "rubih how-u-si" in korean. The korean version of the show aired a couple years before the first episode of extreme makeover home edition. The show also could not fund all of the new houses they were building, so the show has not been aired for the past few years. I do not have sources except for my own knowledge. Im not going to change but but I do suggest that a knowledgable wiki user research this a little more and update the article.

Extreme Makeover Home Edition in Pop Culture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtDYEkXwzVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ao2evQaNLQ

In 2018 the Disney Show Mickey Mouse did a segment where they did a parody of Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. This is 6 years after the show ended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:640:C600:8270:FC32:8D95:9D6:6C16 (talk) 02:14, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Kenmore washers/dryers
Has anyone noticed that in all episodes, the family doesn't get to choose what type of Kenmore washer and dryer they wanted?...it's ALWAYS the front-loading(and "EnergyStar"-approved) types...I have read in some newspapers where some families that were chosen actually changed their washer/dryer combos after the cameras(and Ty and the team) had left...I mean, let's face it, not EVERY family likes those Whirlpool-built Kenmore-tagged front-loader washers and dryers...Michaela92399 17:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Why wouldn't they like them? Especially when they're free. Chris M. (talk) 00:57, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Where are they now
I'd love to see how the houses look and how many were lost because they couldn't afford the new property taxes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by C2s (talk • contribs) 16:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

That, and how many houses have been burglarized now that everyone in the community knows exactly where and how many big screen TVs there are in the house.

I've been wondering about that, too. This link indicates the lives of some families are indeed made worse than before: http://www.builderonline.com/industry-news.asp?sectionID=26&articleID=419357 --YellowTapedR 16:35, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Unless California is so drastically different from any other state (which it may very well be) the actual house is only about 10% of the property value. Granted, Prop 13 would likely shield most people in California but take a typical house in San Marino, for example. The median home price is around $2mil (this will get you a 3,000sq ft house) with the actual house only valued at about 120-150k. I think these concerns are hyperbolic.Jgeddis (talk) 09:38, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I seriously doubt that property taxes on these houses are more then mortgage was for their old houses. It seems like only 3 of the families aren't in their houses now. 2 of them voluntarily sold their houses due to issues unrelated to the show, and another one was forced to sell it when construction buisness venture failed (also unrelated to the show). Chris M. (talk) 00:56, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ExMakeLogo large.gif
Image:ExMakeLogo large.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 22:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Does anybody know the 3d-animation software which is used by this tv-show?
i ask because i could use this for my work, so help would be appreciated —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.33.16.215 (talk) 15:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Permits, blueprints, clearances
Does anyone know how they deal with all the blueprinting/schematics for the homes they build? How do they get local building permits and the subsequent approvals? How does all that sketching by the designers get translated into a REAL building plan in such short order? Obviously the families must know in advance that ABC is coming. Producers must go in in advance to get the lay of the land and builders must be engaged in advance to have plans/materials/labor at the ready.

Does anyone know how this REALLY works? Devinbaines (talk) 05:31, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Can someone explain how a house can be built in seven days? For example, how long does usually take to build a concrete foundation (ie building the molds/forms (?), pouring it, allowing it to set). How can they do that so quickly? Can someone give a typical schedule (ie Day 1 demolition, Day 2 ???, ..., Day 7 move in the furniture)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.110.238.175 (talk) 05:43, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

 * In most cases the construction period on EM:HE runs 24/7, so there are always people on-site performing labor. Modern home construction techniques such as pre-manufactured roofs, walls and fixtures dramatically speed up construction, as most of these can be built off-site at any time and transported in when needed. The longest task would be demolition (around one day) and setting of a new foundation if necessary (one to two days, depending on the weather). The building schedule is tightly coordinated so that the most can be done in as little time as possible, the shifts for the volunteers are planned in advanced, and visits by inspectors and other officials already scheduled. Kamnet (talk) 15:06, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

"circular" links
Can anyone explain why several wiki pages have blue underlined links within the article that circle back to itself? For example, if you click on "Eduardo Xol" within this article it will bring you back to the top of this article rather than a page about Eduardo Xol.69.41.192.218 (talk) 20:53, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Simpsons lampoon
Worth mentioning the episode of The Simpsons where whats-his-name's house blew down in the hurricane and the whole of Springfield built him a replacement which fell down around him? Definitely "inspired" by EM:HE. Can't remember the name of the episode (I was only half watching), but it was on one of the UK cable channels last week or so. --Matt Westwood 23:31, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Kermit the Frog and Marlee Matlin
Is there any reason that Kermit the Frog is listed as part of the cast list but Marlee Matlin isn't? They were each a major part of precisely one double episode. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 06:47, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Extreme Makeover proposed 2023 reboot Returns to ABC
https://deadline.com/2023/06/extreme-makeover-home-edition-reboot-in-works-at-abc-the-home-edit-1235408883/

This is in talks for now as of June 20232601:640:C901:C530:4D2:5CC1:1E9A:5F1D (talk) 23:17, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101105124200/http://defamer.gawker.com:80/163321/the-extreme-makeover-home-edition-tragedy-wishlist to http://defamer.gawker.com/163321/the-extreme-makeover-home-edition-tragedy-wishlist

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:15, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Extreme makeovers
Im 11years old my house is tareing apart Damarithomas600 (talk) 20:17, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://defamer.gawker.com/163321/the-extreme-makeover-home-edition-tragedy-wishlist
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111215074335/http://abc.go.com/shows/extreme-makeover-home-edition to http://abc.go.com/shows/extreme-makeover-home-edition

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 13:37, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Needing help
how can I can get them to help my little family. I am currently trying my best to complete a home for my children by myself since their daddy was found passed away. 2600:1004:B150:952C:0:4A:196C:CE01 (talk) 19:51, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Hi there iam from South Africa in Cape Town I need help to build something 197.229.7.32 (talk) 19:32, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Extreme Makeover: Home Edition


text:
Talk:Carny

This is a terrible entry
No sources for ANYTHING. Presenting carnies as both the rich and beautiful and poor and inbred. WTF is going on here? 198.6.46.11 21:52, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but it does look very silly having lots of "citation needed" bits in the middle of sentences. I'll stick a single one at the end of the paragraph instead. mh. 23:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

More Info
More info on carnies can be found at carnytown.com

'''This is a terrible place for Carny info. Tom Hoey is a self proclaimed Carny and failed actor and this was his venture to capitalize on the Carnival Industry and it`s people online. There is no real info here sorry. ''' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.153.180 (talk) 08:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

False informatizion
The revision made "as of 05:55, 29 August 2005" says that carny includes the insertion of the "iz" syllable to existing words. That sounds an awful lot like Snoop Dogg, although in Snoop Dogg's case it is attributed to Frankie Smith and the Gap Band. Is this actually a feature of carny, or is somebody having us on?
 * This is actually a bit of carny. In professional wrestling's version of carny, one of the most popular terms is "Kizabe Fizabe", which translates out to kayfabe. - NickSentowski 21:49, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Aren't some of the words attributed to Carny just regular English slang words? "Scratch" has always been a slang word for money, I don't see how this is or was specifically Carny. "Mark," too...you hear this word with the same meaning, in the 1970's period film The Sting...it just sounds like ordinary gangster slang. "Call" is used with its ordinary English connotation, too...I don't see how this should be attributed to another language or even to jargon--vendors of all types 'called' before carnies even existed. Dr spork 03:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * mainstream slang now, but at least some of these words did originate as carny slang--just because they've spead doesn't change that. Mark, for instance, started out from the practice of covertly putting some chalk dust on a customer at the gate who'd been observed to have a big wad of cash when he bought his ticket so people knew who to fleece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.100.201.52 (talk) 01:30, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

FeezucKeezoff
The pronounciation in CarnyTalk is actually more of a eez (long e sound), not the izzle-speak (short i sound) that is popular today. Also, it's spoken very fast, with all the words kinda slurred together, and syllable separation & accenting are different, to make it even more difficult for the marks to follow. If ya want to really screw with someone's head, then you speak eezarny-keezay teezalk in eezig-peezay eezatin-leezay.

Gangster/criminal slang vs. carny slang is often a chicken/egg question, since there has always been a lot of overlap among the various underground sub-cultures.

Terry Yager 06:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Cant?
Is this US-only or Canada too? It's not UK as far as I know. Do we think it is a cant? There seem to be similarities with polari as a language of travelling showground people. We should try and find more info on the structure, vocabulary etc - although this is obviously hard for secret languages.. Secretlondon 01:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Another way
My family has spoke carny for years and years. It is more a long eee but with an rza as well. It is spoken very fast and slurred together. Everyone who speaks it adds a new spin to it, but it always seems understandable. Erin0513 20:57, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I already said that. What're ya, new?  Terry Yager (talk) 23:24, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

New words
I hope nobody objects to my latest edit being based on original research (20 years on the carnival circuit). It's very difficult to find articles to cite for this sort of thing. If it is a problem, feel free to revert. (I'll fill out more definitions later, when I have more time) Terry Yager (talk) 23:24, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Moo
The word POKEMON is at the top of the page, just saying. And the "z's" have nothing to do with SnoopDOg, more along the lines of the made up school child language "gibberish"-Alle--68.202.8.159 (talk) 06:27, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Additional pop culture entries
Shouldn't Joe R. Landsdale's Freezer Burn be listed? 71.87.59.69 (talk) 00:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

No reference of Austin Powers?!?! "Carnies. Nomads, you know.  Smell like cabbage.  Small hands." 75.218.25.210 (talk) 01:13, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Error in "Key to the Midway"
At least one of the so-called "made up" items — the solar-powered flashlight — actually exists; they're sold in the UK by the "99p Stores" chain, and I have one. It has three high-brightness white LEDs on the end, a solar panel on one side, and a push-button on the other; during daylight hours, the panel trickle-charges the built-in rechargeable battery. — 92.40.141.248 (talk) 00:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Joyland
Should Joyland] be added to Pop Culture? — Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned comment added by JonathanPeel (talk • contribs) 14:20, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Carny. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100708211729/http://www.nme.com:80/artists/paul-leary to http://www.nme.com/artists/paul-leary
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080313164100/http://www.austin360.com:80/xl/content/music/xl/2005/08/25wire.html to http://www.austin360.com/xl/content/music/xl/2005/08/25wire.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 21:18, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Just North America?
I'm a Brit and I use the word 'carnies'. It seems widely understood here. Its origin may be American but I think it's common enough in Britain that to say (in first para) that it's a North American term seems wrong. I haven't edited it as I'm happy to be corrected (any other Brits reading?), but I don't think the UK has a more common word for carnival folk. Hephae3tion (talk) 17:07, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Johnnie
Is that picture of Johnnie the carny legal? Who took it and did they have his permission to put it on a global site. 86.163.97.200 (talk) 19:19, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Carny


text:
AGM-130

The AGM-130 was an air-to-ground guided missile developed by the United States of America. Developed in 1984, it is effectively a rocket-boosted version of the GBU-15 bomb. It first entered operational service on 11 January 1999, and was retired in 2013. 502 were produced.

Overview
The AGM-130 is a powered air-to-surface missile designed for strikes at long range against various targets. It is essentially a rocket-boosted version of the GBU-15 bomb, with the rocket motor increasing the launch range and so giving the launch aircraft protection from whatever defenses may protect the target. Two can be carried by the F-111 and F-15E.

In 1991 the development of some significant upgrades began; these included a new CCD seeker and a GPS/INS (GPS-aided Inertial Navigation System) mid-course guidance. This combined enhancement provided the system with an adverse weather capability. It can be retargeted in flight; the guidance head of the weapon provides a visual image of the target to the launch aircraft via the AXQ-14 data link, allowing the controller to steer it to the target (command guidance). The weapon can be retargeted in flight by simply steering it to a new target. Control can be released at any point, allowing the missile to home in on the target by itself. The AGM-130 is highly accurate, and is intended for use against high-value targets which are either slow moving or of fixed location.

The GBU-15 is a modular weapon, and the AGM-130 continues this concept. It consists of a CCD TV or focal plane array imaging infrared seeker head, a radar altimeter, wings, strakes, a Mark 84 or BLU-109 warhead, a control section, and a rocket motor and data link unit.

The AGM-130 needs little support on the ground, and can be based in remote "bare base" sites. What support and maintenance is required can be provided by mobile support equipment and intermediate level maintenance capability.

Development of the AGM-130A began in 1984 as an improvement to the GBU-15. The first unit became operational in 1994. Precise numbers are classified, but the US Air Force planned to buy 4,000+ originally. This was reduced to 2,300 units, and in 1995 further reduced to 502.

Development of the AGM-130 cost $192 million, not including a further $11 million for the AGM-130C.

Variants
The upgraded AGM-130 Mid-Course Guidance (MCG) weapon, employs an improved global positioning and inertial navigation system. This allows the weapon to be used with less input from the launch aircraft, freeing the pilot and weapon systems officer for other tasks. The weapon became operational in 1999 when two F-15Es from the 335th and 336th Fighter Squadrons at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base, North Carolina, fired one weapon each.

The AGM-130LW [lightweight] is designed to be used by single-seat aircraft such as the F-16C. It also has an enhanced global positioning and inertial navigation system capability. The smaller, less powerful warhead used on this weapon allows better control over collateral damage.

The AGM-130C employed a 900 kg (2,000 lbs) BLU-109 penetrating warhead for use against hardened targets. It was developed, but not put into service.

The Autonomous AGM-130 is a proposed weapon that would incorporate a laser radar (LADAR) seeker, removing any need for the weapon to be steered to the target. The aircraft interface would be based on the JDAM interface; use of the autonomous seeker would greatly reduce the mission planning requirements and aircrew workload. Elimination of the datalink would also reduce the susceptibility to countermeasures.

Combat history
The AGM-130 saw its first operational service on 11 January 1999 during Operation Northern Watch, when a pair of AGM-130s were used by F-15Es to destroy two Iraqi SAM sites. The AGM-130 was also the weapon used in the April 1999 NATO strike on a railway bridge in Grdelica, Serbia.

Operators

 * 🇺🇸: The United States Air Force was the only operator of the AGM-130

title: AGM-130


text:
Talk:Microsoft Visual C++

History
I've done my best to clean up the "history" section, which used improper tenses & had other grammatical mistakes - as well as some very strange, mangled HTML & Wiki code - but someone with better knowledge of the history of Visual C++ could probably help improve that section quite a bit. Keithius 22:17, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I used Visual C++ 1 and 1.5, and as far as I remember, it had no 32-bit programming capacity. To clarify slightly - it was limited to the WIN16 programming model. It couldn't compile for WIN32. There was an option to use different memory models within WIN16. When Visual C++ 2.0 was released, it included a copy of 1.5 for WIN16 development.

I'm not sure of the details of this, so I haven't updated the article. If I can find a copy of 1.0 or 1.5 I might install it to see what it actually has. JHWW.

Westprog 11:42, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

My retail-boxed Visual C++ 4.0 AE (Academic Edition) also came bundled with Visual C++ 1.52. And the subscription-edition (4.1) came with the Microsoft Game SDK. At the time, that was a big deal, because the VC++ subscription was the cheapest way to (legally) obtain the Game SDK. (Less than a year later, Microsoft re-released the Game/SDK as 'DirectX 2.0 SDK', free download for all.)

11:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Not sure about VC 1.0 but 1.5 does indeed produce 32-bit (i386) code and includes support for large memory models. It does not include support for the newer Windows32 API and the linker supplied does not support the newer related formats (AFAIK). Another interesting feature is the integration of MASM including a compiler switch (/MA) allowing you to pass parameters. Borland compilers had even cooler features in this regard. s P A z z M a t i C 18:45, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Minor quibble, but "extremely compatible" seems a bit hyperbolic. Perhaps highly compatible or highly compliant would be better language? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.128.192.31 (talk) 16:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Extern links in article proper
Is it, or is it not appropriate to include an external link in the article where it is mentioned? It seems to me that if the article wants to mention exactly what this external link discribes - something that is not exactly standard - would it not be convenient to the reader to provide the link for more information - right then and there - so he can continue with his quest for knowledge? I just noticed in the history that I have added the link 3 times, and the same user has removed the link 2 times due to the fact it is included in the external links. I appreciate that the link is now included twice if it exists in the article and in the links section, but from the point of view of convenience and usability, why not give the link right at the point in time the reader wishes to see it, rather than making him un-conveniently have to search for it in a links list. Many articles on Wikipedia do this, and I am sure most are ok for this exact reason. 137.186.22.237 12:32, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * That user who removed them was probably me. Using extern links in the article proper is against Wikipedia standards.  Including it as a cite is permissible, however, as I have done with your link.  The link is right there for the user to click on, but it doesn't look like a wikilink; it is clearly a reference to an extern site.   — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:32, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, it was you. I just realized today that we were each re-doing / un-doing each other's work. I understand now, the citation is much more proper, and it achieves the result I was attempting to explain. Thanks. 137.186.22.246 03:59, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Debugger available as separate download?
Article states that although the "C++ Toolkit 2003" lacks the "Platform SDK" and the debugger, these are "available as separate downloads." From context one would assume these are available for free download. I wasn't able to find a debugger available for free download at the Microsoft Developer Network download site.

If there really is a free debugger available for download, I suggest adding an external link as has been done for the "C++ Toolkit 2003". If not, the article needs to be corrected. Note: The latest version of the "Platform SDK" has debuggers for 64 bit code, but not for 32 bit code.

 * See Debug Tools For Windows.

 * It was available as a separate download when Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 was released. Now it is only included with the SDK.  I'm not sure the best way for Wikipedia to address this; it seems appropriate to be period-correct given the Toolkit is no longer available for download either.  The Windows 11 SDK does include the 32 bit debugger, and the 64 bit debugger can be used to debug 32 bit code. Malx (talk) 23:41, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

NPOV?
How is syntax hilighting an advanced feature? Or two-macine debugging? This smacks of marketing (or sycophancy) to me. -Ahruman 09:47, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

"Keep this in mind, however, the problems you are likely to encounter are rare." That seems to me to be a sales pitch by a Microsoft representative... IMacWin95 16:26, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Would anyone complain if I removed "syntax highlighting" from the "boasts such advanced features..." sentence? Would anyone complain if I removed "Keep this in mind..." as well? IMacWin95 22:37, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Go ahead and remove the "marketing language," but syntax highlighting is a feature. It used to be advanced back in '93 or '94, but it's not anymore.  So go ahead and remove the text that says the feature is "advanced," but it is still a valid feature. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

More Detail
I was just reading the article on [GNU Compiler Collection|GCC] and found it much more detailed than this article. Can this article be brought up to the same level of detail, or does the closed-source nature of MS VC++ prevent that? It seems that it shouldn't. 69.61.169.217 18:46, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

QuickC
Right now, QuickC redirects to this, but QuickC isn't really covered in this article. Would it be better to split QuickC off into a separate article? --Improv 05:20, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I've created a stub article on QuickC — wm243 | Talk 20:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Boasts Advanced Features
The Wikipedia entry reads: boasts advanced features such as syntax highlighting.... This expression doesn't sound very encyclopedia-isch to me, rather more like marketing speak. Esp since quite a few users of other fine editors and IDEs might believe that syntax highlighting is quite normal and not very advanced at all...

 * See my response in the NPOV section above. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Shorten compile times
"The compile and build system feature, precompiled header files, "minimal rebuild" functionality and incremental link: these features significantly shorten turn-around time to edit, compile and link the program, especially for large software projects."
 * While it is certainly true that these features significantly shorten compile and link times, I'm wondering if Visual C++ now supports distributed builds or multiple processors. Last time I checked, MSVC would only use a single-core processor at a time and was unable to distribute the build to other computers (such as distcc), though this could possibly be added by third-party components.  The end result, of course, was that full builds are often significantly slower on MSVC than with other build environments.  If MSVC does not make use of multicore or multiprocessor computers, we should probably mention this limitation.  I'm not sure if it is worth mentioning the lack of support for distributed builds, though.  Comments?  --Yamla 17:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

 * VS2005 supports multi-processor builds, as long as you have multiple projects without dependencies between them: e.g. if you have one project producing A.lib, another producing B.lib, and a third linking them together in C.exe, then it can compile A and B in parallel on two separate processors/cores; but it can't compile half of A's .cpp files in parallel with the other half (unlike distcc), and it has to wait until they're both finished before it starts building any of C. 80.177.163.133 20:01, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

 * In addition, Visual C++ 2008 also supports intra-project multi-processor builds: with the /MP option set to use N processors/cores, when compiling a single project, N source files can be compiled in parallel. --82.250.149.4 (talk) 20:52, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Article name
See Talk:Microsoft Visual Studio. --Stefán Örvarr Sigmundsson 03:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Compiler Output is Unclear
It's not clear to me what the C++ compiler does exactly. From personal experience I believe that the earlier versions of C++ up to version VC6 primarily generated native code, such as .EXEs, .DLLs, etc., but with the advent of the later versions bearing the .NET label, from the article, it's not possible to determine if the compiler generates Common Intermediate Language for output or if it's a native code compiler or if it does both.

I agree that this should be clarified as many people, esp. at release, believed you could only target .NET given the name "VS.NET". You can, of course, generate IL or native code. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.41.222.1 (talk) 02:33, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

(Redirected from Microsoft C)
Well I wanted to do some research on Microsoft C and was redirected here. But there is nothing here about pre "Visual" MS-C/C++!. The history section begins with Visual C++ 1.0.

There is a link called The predecessor to Visual C++ was called Microsoft C/C++. - but that one is red. So where is the information on pre "Visual" MS-C gone - and more importantly: Why was I redirected to a page where the requested information clearly isn't available?

--Krischik T 07:19, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

RISC Edition
Hey everyone, there is a RISC edition of Visual C++. I believe it can target RISC systems and run on them. Its for the Alpha AXP, MIPS and PowerPC. It runs under any win32 system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelCody89 (talk • contribs) 03:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

 * It runs on the corresponding RISC system. Those compilers do not run under any win32 system (ie., Visual C++ did not support cross compilation from x86 to Alpha, etc.) Malx (talk) 23:43, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

this is an abominable article
encyclopedia entries are supposed to be readable and understandable by people not necessarily expert in the field. this sort of gobbledygook is what one would expect to find in a programmers'/developers' forum. whoever adds or edits this article should ask himself "does this explain to a non-versed reader what this is and how it works?" that hardly means it needs to be reduced to kindergarten-sized bites. but it should indicate what this is, to which components/programs it is crucial, etc. etc. etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.95.175 (talk) 23:39, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "Microsoft Visual C++ is a commercial integrated development environment (IDE) product engineered by Microsoft for the C, C++, and C++/CLI programming languages."
 * That's about as simple as we can make it. Anything that differentiates it from similar projects is highly technical.  Can you suggest how we could improve the article?  Would making a more prominant link to Microsoft Visual Studio help? –Gunslinger47 07:56, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Stating whether this thing is for programmers or is needed by the general public would help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.242.42 (talk) 02:23, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

 * This should be clear to anyone who reads and understands the first sentence. It's a development environment for work with a programming language, so yes, it's for programmers.  If you don't understand term on Wikipedia, be sure to click it and read its summary before continuing onward.  Following this article's first link, for example, will tell you that IDEs (such as VC++) provide "comprehensive facilities to computer programmers for software development." –Gunslinger47 03:07, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Visual C++ [b]was[/b] an IDE. Now it comes as part of the visual studio IDE, so technically it is a module giving functionality to an IDE. It includes a compiler and libraries such as MFC. As such, some sources refer to Visual C++ as only the compiler and libraries. Beside C and C++ the compiler (cl.exe) also compiles C++/CLI.

Because of this vc++ is also referred to as a language (e.g. "software written in vc++") though c++/cli should be used to avoid confusing a product with a language.Jayjiggunjer (talk) 13:46, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Out of the blue a few days ago, my computer malfunctioned and spouted messages about requiring components for Windows SDK. I don't know what that is. The next message: "something in .Net needs updating". When I looked into the installed programs I found one .NET framework 4.8 If it is for developers, why is it in my computer? and there are 15 (FIFTEEN) Visual C++, each with a different size. This article, and the .NET one, are supposed to be helpful. If Visual C++ or .NET is needed to run anything on a person's computer, why not say "Visual C++/.NET runs in the background / is needed to run these (types of) programs . . . it is a tool for developers. If it isn't needed, why have there been so many updates labelled by Microsoft as "important"?184.148.80.239 (talk) 20:59, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

_MSC_VER information
A table of the values of the _MSC_VER predefined preprocessor value for different versions of the compiler would be most useful. (Actually this would more accurately give an indication of the "compiler" version which for VC++ 10 indicates that it is 16.00. A table of the complete values is a good idea.  This is what I know:

VC6   1200 VC.NET 1300 VC2003 1310 VC2005 1400 VC2008 1500 VC2010 1600

02:45, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Based on the table here, I think the values for  greater than 1900 are incorrect, but I'm just passing through, so I didn't want to edit it. --FusionDude (talk) 05:58, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

MSC 1.0 was not K&R
The comment about MSC 1.0 not being K&R sounds unnecessarily negative to me. First, I am not sure there is a strict definition of what K&R C is but the Lattice compiler supported the exact C language as UNIX compilers of the time did with a few extensions (such as allowing the $ character in identifiers). Some of the "normal" UNIX library routines (like strcspn) were not implemented but in many ways the library routines provide were better than those that became part of the defacto standard (ie, K&R) and later C89.

I ported a lot of code from MSC 2.0 to MSC3.0 in 1985. In many ways the new compiler was a backward step, with inferior code generation, optimizations, and library functions. But it was more compatible with UNIX compilers of the time being basically a port of Microsoft's Xenix compiler.

BTW I have never had any relation to Lattice apart from using their compiler under MSDOS and AmigaDOS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrewWPhillips (talk • contribs) 03:09, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

 * The definition K&R conformation comes usually from the C style that was used in the first revision of the Book "The C Programming Language" from Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Richtie. This book was the de-facto standard before the ANSI C standard was formed. At that time, usually all C Compiler developers tried to follow that book, until ANSI C was there. The second revision of that Book is ANSI C conform. --IT-Compiler (talk) 22:23, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Target platforms
Shouldn't this article cite the target platform MSVC supports? In the whole article there isn't a single reference to "ARM". 188.218.163.90 (talk) 12:21, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hm. x86, x86, Itanium... no, ARM's not mentioned. Aren't there versions for PowerPC too? I'll fix this when I can actually write properly (a.k.a. not midnight). --EM64T (talk) 00:38, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Issues for whom?
The first 2 issues paragraphs cam be simplified as "No ABI compatiblity". Why make it an issue when the C++ standard says otherwise? Does a common programming mistake qualify as an issue for each and every C++ compiler?--Skyfiler (talk) 22:10, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

C99
Visual C++'s c99 support is being further developed (seemingly due to customer pressure to support libraries like ffmpeg) - http://herbsutter.com/2013/09/09/visual-studio-2013-rc-is-now-available/, http://blogs.msdn.com/b/somasegar/archive/2013/06/28/cpp-conformance-roadmap.aspx.

86.147.250.157 (talk) 09:16, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Programming Language
It is true that including C# in the list of languages that Visual C++ is implemented in would constitute WP:SYNTH, synthesis of that the Visual C++ IDE mostly or completely overlaps the Visual Studio IDE and that Visual Studio is partially implemented in C#. However, it is misleading to list only C++ based on lextrait.com, the personal website of someone in another country. I suggest either deleting "Written in" completely from the Infobox or adding a "Better source" template to the existing lextrait.com reference (along with explanatory text in that template that C# is also likely another implementation language, which it almost certainly is). Michaelmalak (talk) 18:33, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Objection to source by User:Michaelmalak
Hi.

I am writing this as a follow up to my reversion of an edit by in accordance to WP:BRD. (I am hoping you are seeing this, Michael.) Michael has requested one of the sources (in the infobox) to be changed, having provided the following reasons: "Source is a personal web page from a country different than the publisher; [...]" Actually, this good, not bad. This kind of source is called secondary sources. Wikipedia loves secondary sources. They are generally better than primary sources, though primaries are not evil either.

"[...] moreover, source indicates Visual Studio is written in C++ and C# but Visual C++ only in C++, even though both products share the same IDE" Now this one is not accurate. The source lists Visual Studio under development environments and says it is written in C++ and C#. But the list under which C++, C#, Visual Basic and GCC are placed is titled "Compilers/Interpreters" meaning that the list has nothing to do with anything else that is C++-related.

Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 21:45, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Then perhaps instead of the "better source" template I used, what is needed is just a plain old "citation needed" template for the C# assertion, since it seems we have no source directly indicating the Visual C++ IDE is partially written in C# (and to clarify, according to the introduction of this Wikipedia article, it is about the IDE product and not just the compiler), and since we seem to agree that inferring it from that the Visual Studio IDE is partially written in C# would be WP:SYNTH. As I asserted in the above Talk:Visual C++ section on Programming Language, stating Visual C++ is written only in C++ is probably wrong and thus misleading. An alternative solution is to eliminate the "Programming Language" line altogether from the Infobox.
 * Michaelmalak (talk) 22:37, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi. There is no need to resort to such measures at all. You can simply not assert C# in the article because:
 * First, this article is about C++ only, there is the freedom of simply not bothering with Visual Studio.
 * Second, to my knowledge there is no such thing as Visual C++ IDE. Microsoft has only one IDE for C++: Visual Studio. It serves as a front-end to a command line compiler that is also included with Windows SDK. (Now that I think, a rather long time ago, I had a discussion with someone who wanted to remove the article logo, but somehow, back then, there was evidence about the existence of distinct a VC++ IDE or so I was lead to believe. Still, if situation has changed, it is only logical that we change with it.) Of course, the burden of providing source is with the person who says there is a distinct Visual C++ IDE.

 * Best regards,
 * Codename Lisa (talk) 23:18, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

 * OK, Googling just now it looks like Visual C++ has not been offered separately from Visual Studio since the 2010 version (the last version I personally used a lot of). So this whole article needs to be rephrased to indicate that. I'll do that at some point in the future. (And of course that means Visual C++ being written in only C++ is correct, for the current 2013 version :-) Michaelmalak (talk) 03:55, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Hi. Visual C++ is still being offered as part of Windows SDK; it has been so since 2001. Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 03:42, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Which runtimes are shipped with each version of Windows?
Does anyone know which version of Visual C++ runtime is shipped with each version of Windows? If any are shipped and installed by default, then please create a section similar to .NET_Framework. Thanks! • Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 05:14, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
 * There was usually no runtime in the first releases of Visual C++. The C++ compiler produced native machine code and didn't use a .NET runtime. The latter came years later. --IT-Compiler (talk) 22:28, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I've done some ad-hoc and not systemic documentation for this in a blog post at http://www.malsmith.net/blog/visual-c-visual-history/ . In the early days it wasn't at all systemic.  It's actually very hard to catalog exhaustively due to minor differences (not all versions of Windows 95 included the same set), and some runtimes were added by optional components, notably Internet Explorer, so the same base version of Windows with different components or versions of IE had different CRTs.  Also, note that it's not guaranteed that a CRT in an earlier release is still included in a later release. Malx (talk) 23:55, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

No New Features in VS 2012
No new features are listed under VS 2012 and 2013 in history. Just the version numbers are listed.No new C++11 features are listed. But in the 2005 and 2006 section the exact ISO C++ features are listed. Go To Case 1 (talk) 22:20, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

The great gimmick of "support" for C standards later than C90
There is no Burger King (fast food) restaurant in my country 'A'. Burger King has a restaurant in a neighboring country 'B'. The 'B' country is on good terms with mine and thus I can visit the Burger King restaurant over there easily.

Can Burger King now claim, since they're feeding some people from country 'A', that they are supporting/established in Country 'A'? No.

Similar situation is seen with Microsoft's C standard support. C99/11 is country 'A', C++11 is country 'B' and microsoft is Burger King.

Since there is a some overlap in the standards of C++11 and C99/11 and that C++11 compilers(that Microsoft has) can compile C too, they want you to write your C code on a C++11 compiler, pretend you're really coding in C and let them tell you that they worked hard on supporting the latest C standards.

They have recommended C developers to rename their file to .cpp to use the latest compilers. references: http://herbsutter.com/2012/05/03/reader-qa-what-about-vc-and-c99/

Microsoft just hates C and they have totally ignored it since C90. But admitting that upfront will be damaging to their sales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.43.186.25 (talk) 07:57, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Controversy
I edited the "controversy" section to include a more direct link to the VC++ dev manager's comments, and also to note that the offensive CRT function was removed. The latter doesn't have an online attribution--it makes news when Microsoft does something to raise suspicions and drive conspiracy theories, but not so much when Microsoft fixes it :)

Full disclosure: I am the PM in charge of most of the VC++ command-line tools (though not the libraries). I try to be extra fair and balanced slightly away from favoring Microsoft when editing Wikipedia but I understand if people would question my motivations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apardoe (talk • contribs) 00:08, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks, but are there any webpages on microsoft.com that states this was fixed? Please add it to the article or drop the URL here, then I'll take care of it.  Thanks.  •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 04:47, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Microsoft Visual C++. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20120530/http://www.lextrait.com/Vincent/implementations.html to http://www.lextrait.com/Vincent/implementations.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050814234847/http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifeobsoleteproducts to http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifeobsoleteproducts

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:39, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Microsoft Visual C++. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130211131045/http://examples.oreilly.de/english_examples/9780735618848/cd_contents/Readme.txt to http://examples.oreilly.de/english_examples/9780735618848/cd_contents/Readme.txt

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:33, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

32-bit and 64-bit versions section: Microsoft Visual C++ 2015 Update 1 release notes.
Microsoft Visual C++ 2015 Update 1 redistributable package miss changelog and the content of this update. --Starscreams6667 (talk) 05:05, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Binary compatibility since VC++ 2015
Hi there, it looks like the status of binary compatibility has changed since VC++2015.

This page seems to suggest that binary compatibility is now (As of October 2019) being maintained between VC++2015 and future versions of the compiler.

Therefore, I think the section on binary compatibility needs review.Russetrob (talk) 19:25, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

The Microsoft_Visual_C article duplicates this one
The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_C page contains mostly the same information as the "Microsoft Visual C++" one, and it may be worthwile to merge both these articles together, and transform the Microsoft_Visual_C one into a redirect to "Microsoft Visual C++" instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.199.22 (talk) 21:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

VC/VC++/QC/MSC/MSC++
The MS Visual C++ page mentions the whole history of the Microsoft Visual C++ product, **including** its predecessor Microsoft C (versions 1.0 to 6.0) and Microsoft C/C++ version 7.

In order to improve the accuracy of the following article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Windows_Library that says (section "History", 2nd paragraph): > In 1992, Microsoft introduced MFC as part of Microsoft Visual C++ 7.0. [...] where here, the phrasing "Microsoft Visual C++ 7.0" should be changed to "Microsoft C/C++ 7.0" (and making link to the visual C++ page mentioned previously).

By the way, it should be mentioned that the existing page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_C is mostly a duplicate of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_C++ ...

1. Reasons for Microsoft C/C++ 7.0 historically related to MS Visual C++: - see the already-existing history on the Visual C++ page; - https://winworldpc.com/product/microsoft-c-c/7x that mentions: "Later versions were rebranded and renumbered as Microsoft Visual C++ and were bundled with Visual Studio or the SDKs."

2. The fact that in 1992 there was no Visual C++, but only MS C/C++: - Steven Sinofski's book's chapter https://hardcoresoftware.learningbyshipping.com/p/012-i-shipped-therefore-i-am

188.252.199.22 (talk) 5:17 am, 13 March 2021, last Saturday (7 days ago) (UTC+8)

 * MS C/C++ should probably be severed from the MSVC++ article, as MS also created Quick C, which was also succeeded by MSVC. -- 65.93.183.33 (talk) 7:25 am, 13 March 2021, last Saturday (7 days ago) (UTC+8)
 * Moving this discussion from Articles for creation/Redirects and categories (permalink). ~  Aseleste  (t, e | c, l) 12:28, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Microsoft C/C++ should e a separate article from Visual C/C++, as VC was a successor to both MSC and Quick C -- 65.93.183.33 (talk) 02:20, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Microsoft C is not the same as Microsoft Visual C++
These are different products. Microsoft C was usually developed for DOS and run in DOS and usually was there to compile C code for DOS. Only the last two versions also supported C++ code. Visual C++, that also supports C, was developed for Windows. In my opinion, we should create for Microsoft C its own article and separate that from Visual C++. It will also remove some clutter from that article. --IT-Compiler (talk) 22:35, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Strictly 64 bit
I don't think it's consistent to label Visual C++ 2022 as "strictly 64 bit."

Visual C++ 2005 is a 32 bit IDE that can execute either a 64 bit or 32 bit compiler engine, each of which can generate 32 or 64 bit code.

Visual C++ 2022 is a 64 bit IDE that can execute either a 64 bit or 32 bit compiler engine, each of which can generate 32 or 64 bit code. (I don't know why there's a 32 bit hosted compiler in this package, but it's there.)

It looks like Visual C++ 2005 is considered "32-bit and 64-bit" based on the compiler and target platforms, but Visual C++ 2022 is considered "strictly 64 bit" based on its IDE. Malx (talk) 00:05, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Microsoft Visual C++


text:
Ultimo

Ultimo may refer to:

 * Ultimo, New South Wales
 * Ulten, comune in Italy, Italian name Ultimo
 * Ultimo (Marvel Comics), comic books character
 * Ultimo (brand), Scottish designer lingerie brand
 * Karakuridôji Ultimo, a Japanese manga
 * Ultimo (singer), Italian singer
 * Ultimo (manga), a manga series written by Stan Lee and illustrated by Hiroyuki Takei
 * ult. or ultimo., a Latin abbreviation, previously used especially in business correspondence for ultimo mense ("last month")

title: Ultimo


text:
Talk:Ultimo, New South Wales

Page move
This page was moved from "Ultimo" to "Ultimo, New South Wales" as per the naming convention set out at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (places) -- Ianblair23 12:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Sydney Institute of TAFE, Harris Street
I noticed that the image in the infobox has the label Sydney Institute of TAFE, Harris Street. I always thought it was called Sydney Institute of Technology, not of TAFE.

Ok, I see that institute calls itself Sydney Institute TAFE on its site now. and the name change on the Wikipedia page happened in 2007. Perhaps the 'of' needs to be removed? But, I suppose, it would be better to move this suggestion to that page's discussion page. --TenguTech (talk) 22:07, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Dairy Farmer's Cooperative
In the History section the mention of Dairy Farmer's Cooperative still having a site should probably be removed. It stopped being a Dairy Farmer's in 2008 or 2009. In 2009 it was used by Energy Australia(?) as a staging site for work it was doing. And the site is currently building less. Now owned by UTS it is going to be the new Faculty of Business building. --TenguTech (talk) 22:39, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ultimo, New South Wales


text:
Persona (disambiguation)

A persona is a social role or a character played by an actor.

Persona or personas may also refer to:

 * Persona (psychology), a Jungian complex
 * Persona (satellite), a class of Russian reconnaissance satellite
 * Persona (user experience), in marketing, a character representing a particular user type within a targeted demographic

Arts and entertainment

 * Persona (series), a video game franchise developed by Atlus
 * Persona, a collection of photographs by Hiroh Kikai

Film and television

 * Persona (1966 film), directed by Ingmar Bergman
 * Persona (2008 film), written and directed by Tatsuro Kashihara
 * Persona (2012 film), written and directed by George Arif
 * Persona (Turkish miniseries)
 * Persona (South Korean anthology series)
 * "Persona", an episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit tenth season

Music

 * Persona (Karnivool EP), 2001
 * Persona (Kangta album), 2005
 * Persona (Lorenzo Senni EP), 2016
 * Persona (Queen Latifah album), 2009
 * Persona (Mari Hamada album), 1996
 * Persona (Marracash album), 2019
 * Persona (Rival Consoles album), 2018
 * Persona (Selah Sue album), 2022
 * "Persona" (song), song by South Korean rapper RM of BTS
 * Person(a), a 1987 album by Norman Iceberg
 * PersonA, a 2016 album by Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros
 * Personae (album), a 2002 live album by Jonas Hellborg
 * Personas (album), a 2008 album by El Canto del Loco
 * Map of the Soul: Persona, 2019 EP by BTS

Business and brands

 * Persona Communications, a former Canadian cable television operator now part of Eastlink
 * PersonaTV, a former television production subsidiary of the above
 * Mazda Persona, a midsize sedan manufactured by Japanese automaker Mazda from 1988–1992
 * Mozilla Persona, a defunct website authentication mechanism prototyped by Mozilla from 2011–2016
 * Proton Persona, a series of compact/subcompact sedans manufactured by Proton since 2003

title: Persona (disambiguation)


text:
Carrie's War

Carrie's War is a 1973 English children's novel by Nina Bawden set during the Second World War. It follows two young London evacuees, Carrie and her younger brother Nick, into a Welsh village. It is often read in schools for its literary and historical interest. Carrie's War received the 1993 Phoenix Award and has been adapted for television.

Plot
A frame story has Carrie visiting the town as a widow with three children. She tells the children what happened thirty years before.

Carrie Willow and her younger brother Nick are evacuated to a rundown mining town in Wales during the Second World War. After a traumatic difficulty in finding a family to foster them, they stay with a shopkeeper, Mr Evans, who dominates his gentle but weak younger sister, whom they call "Auntie Lou". Another evacuee whom Carrie has befriended, Albert Sandwich, is staying at a dilapidated country house called Druid's Bottom with Mr Evans's older sister, the dying Mrs Dilys Gotobed, and her disabled cousin, Mr Johnny Gotobed. Their English housekeeper, Hepzibah Green, is reputed to be a wise woman. Carrie and Nick become friends with Albert and Johnny and spend a lot of time there. The housekeeper tells the children many tales, including one about a curse on Druid's Bottom, which will be activated if a mysterious skull is removed from the house.

It is revealed that Mr Evans has been estranged from his older sister, Mrs Gotobed, after she married a wealthy Englishman whose family owned the mines where their father was killed in an accident. Carrie is caught in the rift between the brother and sister. Despite almost universal contempt for Mr Evans, Carrie gives him a chance and sees that, beneath his rough exterior, he genuinely is a well-meaning man, who became embittered with the world due to his hard life and the feud with his older sister, to whom he was once very close.

When Mrs Willow comes to visit them, they say nothing about their dislike of Mr Evans, as they do not want to leave. Mrs Gotobed assures Hepzibah and Mr Johnny that they can continue to live in her house once she has died, and that she has made a will saying so. Carrie only meets Mrs Gotobed twice before she dies, and Mrs Gotobed asks Carrie to tell Mr Evans that she has never forgotten him, despite their feud. Hepzibah and Albert tell Carrie that despite Mr Evans's firm belief that Hepzibah is cheating Mrs Gotobed out of money, she is in fact penniless.

On Carrie's birthday, Albert kisses her as a present and she is delighted. Auntie Lou, meanwhile, becomes friendly with Major Cass Harper, an American soldier, keeping this secret from her brother, who would not approve. When Mrs Gotobed dies, Albert is sure that Mr Evans has stolen her will so that he can turn Hepzibah and Mr Johnny out of his deceased sister's house, despite there being plenty of evidence that Mrs Gotobed had made no will – only mental deterioration led her to believe she had made one. Johnny and Hepzibah will be homeless after a month's notice, as the house has become Mr Evans's property. Carrie does not want to believe this of Mr Evans, seeing him as an honest man. Albert, on the other hand, is convinced that Mr Evans has destroyed the will, and becomes even more adamant after he realises that a ring which Mr Evans gives Carrie as a present had in fact belonged to Mrs Gotobed.

However, Carrie changes her mind about Mr Evans after Albert vaguely recalls seeing an envelope in Mrs Gotobed's jewellery box that disappeared after Evans visited the house to take an inventory of his late sister's belongings. This envelope, Carrie believes, was Mrs Gotobed's will, and she too thinks Evans stole it to ensure he would inherit everything. To prevent this from happening, she throws the cursed skull into the horse pond. Mrs Willow arranges a new home for her family near Glasgow, and so the children prepare to leave, with mixed feelings. At the same time, Auntie Lou departs to marry Major Harper, leaving Evans alone. Carrie later learns that Evans is innocent after all: the envelope in fact contained nothing more than a childhood photograph of Evans and Mrs Gotobed, which she had left him. Evans bought the ring he gave Carrie as a present for Mrs Gotobed in their youth. As the children leave by train, they see that Druid's Bottom is on fire. Carrie is guilt-stricken, believing it is her fault for casting out the skull.

Thirty years later, Carrie's children discover that Hepzibah and Mr Johnny are living in a converted barn at Druid's Bottom, having escaped the fire, which was seemingly accidental. Mr Johnny's speech has improved considerably thanks to help from a speech therapist, a friend of Albert Sandwich. Albert, who also escaped the fire, still visits them. Evans, grieving and lonely, died long ago.

Awards and nominations
Carrie's War won the 1993 Phoenix Award from the Children's Literature Association as the best English-language children's book that did not receive a major contemporary award when it was originally published twenty years earlier. The award is named after the mythical bird phoenix, which is reborn from its ashes, to suggest the book's rise from obscurity.

Film, TV or theatrical adaptations
Carrie's War has been adapted twice for television by the BBC, first in 1974, and then again in 2004. The original 1974 version starred Juliet Waley as Carrie, and Rosalie Crutchley as Hepzibah. The more recent 2004 BBC television film version (broadcast in America on PBS – Masterpiece Theatre in 2006) starred Keeley Fawcett as Carrie, Alun Armstrong as Mr Evans, Geraldine McEwan as Mrs Gotobed, Eddie Cooper as Albert Sandwich, Jamie Beddard as Johnny and Pauline Quirke as Hepzibah. The second remains available on DVD, distributed by Acorn Media UK.

A stage adaptation by Novel Theatre ran at Sadler's Wells in 2006–2007 and had a successful West End run starring Prunella Scales in June–September 2009, despite mixed reviews. One of them notes plot similarities with Gothic fiction and John Buchan's 1912 story "The Grove of Ashteroth".

title: Carrie's War


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ArtPlz

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. Redwolf24 02:04, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

ArtPlz
This is encyclopedic? The site in question only currently has a single Flash animation. (Crystal ball anyone?) WP:ISNOT a web directory. Doesn't look notable to me. Al 12:34, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete non-notable under-construction website. Wiki is not a web directory. And I hate cats who cry.  Pussy cats. JDoorjam 14:15, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per above Tonywalton | Talk 15:02, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, if for no other reason than to play devil's advocate. It may be currently under construction, but the community it spun off from had over 10K members, so I'd argue it has some notability. Boxclocke 22:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, as I believe it's notable if only for it's notoriety on many circles of the internet. Apogee 01:19, 19 August 2005 (GMT+1)
 * Delete NN. Re-submit if site <10K Alexa rating. -PlainSight 02:25, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ArtPlz


text:
Leichhardt

Leichhardt may refer to:

 * Division of Leichhardt, electoral District for the Australian House of Representatives
 * Leichhardt Highway, a highway of Queensland, Australia
 * Leichhardt Way, an Australian road route
 * Leichhardt, New South Wales, inner-western suburb of Sydney, Australia
 * Leichhardt Oval, a football stadium
 * Leichhardt, Queensland, a suburb of Ipswich, Queensland
 * Ludwig Leichhardt, 19th century Prussian explorer of Australia
 * Municipality of Leichhardt, former local government area of Sydney, Australia

title: Leichhardt


text:
Talk:Leichhardt, New South Wales

Page move
This page was moved from "Leichhardt" to "Leichhardt, New South Wales" as per the naming convention set out at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (places) -- Ianblair23 12:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Separate page for the Local Government Area
As per discussion at Talk:List of Sydney suburbs, I have created a separate page for the Municipality of Leichhardt, the Local Government Area. -- Ianblair23 10:25, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

In the spirit of the above I'd suggest the paragraph setting out the history of Leichhardt Municipal Council could be truncated. Some of it is relevant as it relates to the suburb but other bits more relate to the expansion and truncation of the council. I assume this would be covered in the seperate LMC page? - Tigerman2005 (27/1/7)

Refrencing
Unfortuantly I have had to add an unsourced tag to this article in accordance with Wikipedia policy. Hopefuly this problem will not remain topical for long; this article looks as though it could be developed in to a much stronger one, without too much trouble. Also, I have removed the stub tag as this article has already been ranked Start Class (an article cannot be both Start Class and Stub Class at the same time). Jason McConnell-Leech 12:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
How is it pronounced? Somehow I don't think it could be [ˈlaiçhɑʁt] as in German. Kelisi (talk) 07:14, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Leichhardt, New South Wales. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121226084727/http://www.suburbguide.com.au/category/home/location/sydney-inner-west to http://www.suburbguide.com.au/category/home/location/sydney-inner-west

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:12, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Ceased Bus Transport Routes and Historical Legacy
Hi, for legacy sake, I think it is useful to include the discontinued bus routes that passed through Leichhardt, M10, 444 etc, in the article, however I'm not sure what the best way to present this is. Perhaps history section? Or Leave them within the transport section as I have currently done? If there are other opinions about what should be done with routes that have ceased, any thoughts are much appreciated. Alternatively, it might be more useful to construct a stub about transport in leichhardt / inner-west and move the legacy routes over to there.

GreenJonan (talk) 01:53, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Leichhardt, New South Wales


text:
User:Stare at the sun/About Me

Basics
Richard

Charleston, South Carolina, USA

College student / Web designer

I am:

 * a Computer Science student
 * a Bible scholar
 * a Website developer
 * an Artist
 * a Musician
 * a Christian

I communicate in:

 * English
 * Spanish
 * Greek
 * Latin
 * Little drawings

I program in:

 * C++
 * Java
 * Python
 * PHP
 * SQL
 * (X)HTML
 * XML
 * JavaScript

I work in:

 * LightWave
 * Adobe PhotoShop
 * Illustrator
 * Macromedia Dreamweaver
 * Notepad plus plus

I've lived in:

 * Washington
 * California
 * Alabama
 * South Carolina
 * Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany

title: User:Stare at the sun/About Me


text:
Parabasis

In Greek comedy, the parabasis (plural parabases; παράβασις, plural: παραβάσεις) is a point in the play when all of the actors leave the stage and the chorus is left to address the audience directly. The chorus partially or completely abandons its dramatic role, to step forward (parabasis) and talk to the audience on a topic completely irrelevant to the subject of the play.

Structure
A parabasis usually consists of three songs (S) alternating with three speeches (s) (or recitatives) in the order S-s-S-s-S-s. The first speech, or parabasis proper - generally in anapaest - often ends with a passage which is to be rattled off very quickly (theoretically in one breath - called a πνῖγος – pnigos).

Examples

 * In The Knights, we find Aristophanes offers a survey of the Athenian comic tradition, thereby enhancing his own role: “if one of the old comic poets had tried to force us Knights to address the public in the parabasis he wouldn’t have got away with so lightly. But this time the poet is worthy...”.

 * In the play The Wasps by the same author, the first parabasis is about Aristophanes' career as a playwright to date; while the second parabasis is shorter, and contains a string of in-jokes about local characters who would be well known to the ancient Athenian audience (e.g. the politician Cleon).

Authorial voice
The chorus in the parabasis sometimes uses its own voice, sometimes that of the play's author, to address the audience. How far the latter is to be taken as ‘authentic’ is a matter for debate. The old view was that Aristophanes is speaking directly to his fellow-Athenians in the parabasis; and that as a result, as Northrop Frye put it, “his opinions on every subject are written all over his plays”. A postmodern interpretation would see the authorial voice as metatheatrical, offering a parody of rhetorical debating points, rather than unmediated criticism.

Decline
The parabasis is exclusively a feature of Old Comedy, and its decline can be charted in the plays of Aristophanes. The second parabasis is gradually abandoned, the chorus ceases to speak out of character in the parabasis itself, and finally the latter is abandoned altogether.

Where the diminishment in the role of the chorus was traditionally linked to the financial pressures of wartime, more recently Stephen Halliwell has preferred to see the decline in terms of theatrical evolution.

title: Parabasis