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Botany Bay

Botany Bay (Dharawal: Kamay) is an open oceanic embayment, located in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia, 13 km south of the Sydney central business district. Its source is the confluence of the Georges River at Taren Point and San Souci as well as the Cooks River at Kyeemagh, which flows 10 km to the east before meeting its mouth at the Tasman Sea, midpoint between the suburbs of La Perouse and Kurnell. The northern headland of the entrance to the bay from the Tasman Sea is Cape Banks, and, on the southern side, the outer headland is Cape Solander, and the inner headland is Sutherland Point.

The total catchment area of the bay is approximately 55 km2. Despite its relative shallowness, the bay now serves as greater metropolitan Sydney's main cargo seaport, located at Port Botany, with facilities managed by Sydney Ports Corporation. Two runways of Sydney Airport extend into the bay, as do some port facilities. Kamay Botany Bay National Park is located on the northern and southern headlands of the bay. The area surrounding the bay is generally managed by Transport for NSW.

The land adjacent to Botany Bay was settled for many thousands of years by the Tharawal and Eora peoples and their associated clans. On 29 April 1770, Botany Bay was the site of James Cook's first landing of HMS Endeavour on the land mass of Australia, after his extensive navigation of New Zealand. Later the British planned Botany Bay as the site for a penal colony. Out of these plans came the first European habitation of Australia at Sydney Cove. Although the penal settlement was almost immediately shifted to Sydney Cove, for some time in Britain transportation to "Botany Bay" was a metonym for transportation to any of the Australian penal settlements.

Aboriginal prehistory
Archaeological evidence from the shores of Botany Bay has yielded evidence of an Aboriginal settlement dating back 5,000 years. The Aboriginal people of Sydney were the Eora, the Dharawal and the Dharug people who comprised at least 28 known clans with traditional boundaries. The clans of the Botany Bay area were the Gweagal who occupied the south shore and the Gameygal on the north shore. It is possible that the Bidjigal clan lived between the Cooks River and the Georges River, but the evidence for this is unclear.

Botany Bay is named Kamay in the Dharawal language.

European history and later

Lieutenant James Cook first landed at Kurnell, on the southern banks of Botany Bay, in what is now Silver Beach, on Sunday 29 April 1770, when navigating his way up the east coast of Australia on his ship, HMS Endeavour. Cook's landing marked the beginning of Britain's interest in Australia and in the eventual colonisation of this new "southern continent". Initially the name Stingrays Harbour was used by Cook and other journal keepers on his expedition, for the stingrays they caught. That name was also recorded on an Admiralty chart. Cook's log for 6 May 1770 records "The great quantity of these sort of fish found in this place occasioned my giving it the name of Stingrays Harbour". However, in the journal prepared later from his log, Cook wrote instead: (sic) "The great quantity of plants Mr. Banks and Dr. Solander found in this place occasioned my giving it the name of Botanist Botany Bay". Cape Banks is named after Joseph Banks and Cape Solander after Daniel Solander.

Eighteen years later, Governor Arthur Phillip sailed the armed tender HMS Supply into the bay on 18 January 1788. First contact was made with the local Indigenous people, the Eora, who seemed curious but suspicious of the newcomers. Two days later the remaining ships of the First Fleet arrived to found the planned penal colony. The land was quickly ruled unsuitable for settlement as there was insufficient fresh water; Phillip also believed the swampy foreshores would render any colony unhealthy as the bay was open and unprotected, the water too shallow to allow the ships to anchor close to the shore, and the soil was poor.

The area was studded with enormously strong trees. When the convicts tried to cut them down, their tools broke and the tree trunks had to be blasted out of the ground with gunpowder. The primitive huts built for the officers and officials quickly collapsed in rainstorms. Crucially, Phillip worried that his fledgling colony was exposed to attack from Aboriginal peoples or foreign powers. Although his initial instructions were to establish the colony at Botany Bay, he was authorised to establish the colony elsewhere if necessary. As such, Phillip decided instead to move to the excellent natural harbour of Port Jackson to the north.

On the morning of 24 January, the French exploratory expedition of Jean-François de Galaup, comte de Lapérouse was seen outside Botany Bay. On 26 January, the Supply left the bay to move up to Port Jackson and anchor in Sydney Cove. On the afternoon of 26 January, the remaining ships of First Fleet arrived at Sydney Cove. In 1789, Captain John Hunter surveyed Botany Bay after returning from the Cape of Good Hope, trading for grain. The good supply of fresh water in the area led to the expansion of its population in the 19th century.

The western shore of Botany Bay remained in its virgin state for almost fifty years after the initial settlement of Sydney Town. Land access to the area was difficult until a route from the west was established via Canterbury. As this route developed it became known as Illawarra Road, which is still one of the main access routes to the south-eastern suburbs of Sydney. The land nearer to this crossing of Cooks River was cleared and settled quite early in the infancy of the new colony.

Landmarks
Sydney Airport, Australia's busiest airport, sits on the northwestern side of Botany Bay. Some of its runways go out into the bay. After World War II the mouth of the Cooks River was moved two kilometres west to make way for the airport extension. Land was reclaimed from the bay to extend its first north–south runway and to build a second, parallel, runway.

The first container terminal at Port Botany, east of the airport, was completed during the 1970s and is the largest container terminal in Sydney. A second container terminal was completed during the 1980s and bulk liquid storage facilities are located on the northern and southern edge of the bay. A third container terminal was completed in 2011.

The land around the headlands of the bay is protected by the NSW National Parks & Wildlife Service as Kamay Botany Bay National Park. On the northern side of the mouth of the bay is the historic site of La Perouse, and to the south is Kurnell. Despite its relative isolation, the southern shore of the bay is dominated by an unusual mixture of pristine national park and heavy industrial use that includes Sydney Desalination Plant, the Caltex Fuel Terminal, sewer treatment, and historical sand mining facilities. On the southern side of the bay a section of water has been fenced off under the authority of the NSW National Parks & Wildlife Service at Towra Point for environmental conservation purposes.

The western shores of the bay feature many popular swimming beaches including Lady Robinsons Beach and are highly urbanised.

There are also a lot of bunkers around Botany Bay. The bunkers were built by the military during World War II and still remain.

Marine life
Botany Bay has a diverse marine population, and the area around its entrance is a popular area for scuba diving. In 2008, the Botany Bay Watch Project began with volunteers assisting to monitor and protect the Bay Catchment and its unique marine life.

The world's largest population of weedy sea dragon ever surveyed is found at the 'Steps' dive site, on the Kurnell side of the Botany Bay National Park. Weedy sea dragons are just one of hundreds of territorial marine creatures found within Botany Bay. The eastern blue groper is the state fish of New South Wales; it is very tame and is commonly found following divers along the shoreline of Botany Bay.

In popular culture

 * Despite the move to Sydney Cove, for many years the Australian penal colony would be referred to as "Botany Bay" in England, and in ballads such as "The Fields of Athenry," by Irish songwriter Pete St. John.
 * A song named "Botany Bay" has been performed as a folk and music hall song since the 1890s, based on older tunes. It also refers to the penal colony.
 * A song entitled "The Shores of Botany Bay" was written by Brian Warfield and recorded by The Wolfe Tones in the early 1970s. This satirical song deals with a group of Irishmen volunteering for the transportation process in the hopes of finding wealth in Australia.
 * A song titled "Bound for Botany Bay" is featured on Irish singer-songwriter and guitarist John Doyle's album Shadow and Light.
 * In the 1941 historical novel Botany Bay by Charles Nordhoff and James Norman Hall, the protagonist, after various adventures and misadventures in England, gets transported to Botany Bay. A movie based on the book starring Alan Ladd and James Mason was shot in 1953.
 * The song "Jim Jones at Botany Bay" (aka "Jim Jones") is about a prisoner who is going to Botany Bay. The song has been recorded several times, including a well-known version by Bob Dylan, and sung by Jennifer Jason Leigh in The Hateful Eight.
 * SS Botany Bay was the name of the spaceship on which Khan Noonien Singh and his followers escaped from Earth in the "Space Seed" episode of Star Trek: The Original Series, and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
 * In the play and musical Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street, Benjamin Barker, the man who would become Sweeney Todd, was transported to Botany Bay for life on a false charge by Judge Turpin.
 * In the MMORPG Runescape, Botany Bay is the name of a location in-game where players can view other players' accounts being penalized for using "bots", computer macros, to cheat.
 * The 2015 7-part British TV series Banished was a dramatisation of the first few weeks of the penal colony.

title: Botany Bay


text:
User talk:Karmosin/Archive 2

Please don't edit other users' comments
Hi, I just wanted to request that you please not edit other users' comments on talk pages (see the change you made to my comment). The removed (gasp!) was specifically written to indicate surprise since the conversation had been going on for months without any sort of agreement.

Granted, this change is minor so I don't really care that much, but I just wanted to point out that I consider the only cases when another user's talk comments should be changed are when they consitute as vandalism or when the user is trolling (even though in the latter case, changing such comments is questionable; what should actually be done is to post another comment indicating such a comment is a troll). --Umofomia 23:38, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry, Umofomia. I didn't mean to offend and I apologize.

 * It didn't seem to merit an actual post about incivility, but I think it was a bit uncalled for. It seemed too sarcastic to me. Peter Isotalo 00:05, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * It's not a big deal; I just wanted you to be aware that many users might not appreciate that in the future. Sometimes comments are meant to be sarcastic in order to make a point, and that is perfectly normal on a talk page (although not in actual articles, of course).  I don't think my comment was particularly out-of-line given many of the other comments on that page and the related Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)/NPOV and Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)/NPOV/Taiwan vs. ROC pages.  --Umofomia 00:34, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Reminding you again, re Talk:Atlanta, Georgia. Don't mess with talk pages. You might ask an editor to tone down his or her own comments, on the User's talk page. Gene Nygaard 13:06, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Terribly sorry, Gene. :-( It seemed so clear-cut to me this time that I thought it would be smoother not to make a big fuss by posting a comment about it and all. I'll do it the old-fashioned way from now on.
 * Peter Isotalo 13:51, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

dialects and standardized dialects
I am not quite convinced that it be a good practice at all to denominate spoken "regionalt standardspråk" as "X Standard", but at the moment, this is what we do, since no other and better alternative has been able to achieve consensual support.

As you noted, Ruhrjung removed a section to the talk page together with a (very) brief explanation. It seems as you did not notice the latter.

I could, of course, have moved your comment at the talk page so that it appeared together with that of Ruhrjung, and under the same heading, but since you are regularly present here, I am sure you can also do it yourself. After all, many contributors get upset if one moves their comments unnecessarily much around. :-)

--Johan Magnus 20:54, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't mind suggestions for better wording of the terms. What did you have in mind?

 * Nothing good, unfortunately. --Johan Magnus 22:26, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * As for my comment, I wouldn't at all mind if you moved it. I don't see the need myself, though. Peter Isotalo 21:16, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

 * Have now done so. It is easier to follow a discussion, if comments are collected under descriptive headings. Acting as if Ruhrjung does not exist, or is not worth to take seriously, is a bit careless with your appearance. --Johan Magnus 22:26, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Answering a post one section further down (in a summary of a mediation) is not ignoring and neither is it rude or even uncivil. Especially considering the discussion I've had with Ruhrjung at his talkpage, attempting to clarify the whole phonological matter. Peter Isotalo 12:28, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * No, it is no ignorance of rules. It is demonstrative ignorance of the contributor. That ought to be unnecessary unless the contributor in question deserves total ignorance, and this contributor does not, so in effect it only puts you in a bad light. --Johan Magnus 13:05, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

RfC
Thank you for your recent contribution to the Request for Comment regarding Cumbey. We appreciate your comments and hope that your view will assist in our goal of a quick resolution. KC9CQJ 11:25, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * You're welcome. Just remember to go easier on the editing next time. Conspiracy theorists of this kind are always exposed and handled properly sooner or later event hough they are enough to make anyone frustrated.
 * I got quite a laugh out of reading those articles on Solana as a potential Antichrist, though. Peter Isotalo 11:30, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

PR Chinese language
I very much liked your recent comments on Peer review/Chinese language/archive1. I haven't found the time yet to even think about them (let alone respond to them), but I'll try to get back to it eventually, because I find them interesting and thought-provoking). Right now, the only thing you should see me doing at Wikipedia is expanding Nobiin language since I'm working on a paper on its tonology. See you around! — mark ✎ 21:24, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Norrköping
Hej

Jag saknar ett svar från dig angående den fråga om Norrköping jag skrivit på din svenska diskussionsida sv:Anv%E4ndardiskussion:Karmosin/Arkiv. För övrigt har artikeln Norrköping ändrats på olika sätt sedan 18/3. Jordgubbe 23:18, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Jag har inte läst igenom den helt och hållet, men den verkar ha förbättrats avsevärt. Jag är inte särskilt intresserad av att delta i något arbete på sv: så jag plockar bort min röst helt (tillsammans med andra). Bättre att inte ha röster kvar som jag ändå inte kommer att besvara. Men se det som ett indirekt stöd. Bra jobbat. Peter Isotalo 23:30, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

Old Norse - Old/Runic Swedish
Hej Peter! Jag tror inte att det finns någon självklar modell för detta, eftersom språken inte förändrades så fort och eftersom det inte finns något kriterium för dialekt/språk i detta sammanhang. Eftersom Old Norse dateras till perioden ca 800- ca 1250, så tror jag att man kalla Runic Swedish för Old East Norse (eller som en teoretisk undergrupp till denna).

Faktum är att jag tror att vi bör starta en diskussion om en standard på detta på Wikipedia. Det borde finnas gott om norrmän, danskar och islänningar som är intresserade av en terminologisk standard i denna fråga Naming conventions (Old Norse, dates and subgroups).--Wiglaf 07:00, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Peter, I'm not sure if you're addressing me, but I have only just told Wiglaf that I would look into it, when I'll have time, and that I'm probably too stressed to enter a dispute, just now. So please leave me out of this until I'm at least involved, and know what you are arguing about, ok? dab (ᛏ) 10:33, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * By all means, take your time. I just didn't feel that Wiglaf's description of my motives was particularly accurate. I generally don't like when I get accused of being arrogant for voicing valid criticism. I'm most certainly not trying to be unfriendly. Peter Isotalo 10:37, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Luckily, everyone can read the discussion and make up his mind about your attitude and the validity of your criticism.--Wiglaf 10:16, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * ok, I may show up trying to act Salomonic in a couple of days. Just not right now. peace, dab (ᛏ) 10:39, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Södertörn University College
I have rearranged the images and added captions. Moas båge should be "Moa's crescent" rather than "Moa's arch". There are a number of semicircular buildings like this in England, all as far as I know built during the Georgian period (although there are probably less known ones from later periods), and they are usually called crescents, with The Royal Crescent in Bath being the most famous example. Uppland 16:44, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Sunds like reasonable argumentation to me. Thanks for the help. Peter Isotalo 16:46, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Re: Chinese language(s)
It was brought up before the arbitration case was filed. But anyways thanks for reminding. I probably wouldn't say too much at the discussion there. — Instantnood 06:42, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Finland-Swedish dialects
Hello, i started a discussion about the topic on Talk:Finland-Swedish, feel free to comment if you feel like it. Greetings. bbx 16:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia
Hello Peter, it's me again.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a Swedish equivalent of WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia? Perhaps you could bootstrap it or ask some other Swedish users, but the pronunciation files make me wonder what an entire text sounds like (-:. Gerrit MUTE 19:28, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I've sorta given up on Swedish wiki for now because of all the trolls among the admins. I'm a bit too busy with the Phonetics Project and various phonologies right now, but I'll see if I can maybe make a recording of some FA I really like. Peter Isotalo 11:26, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * I think you slipped slightly here, that what you really mean is that there are a few really energetic trouble makers among ... With this modification I would have to agree with the characterization. --Etxrge 08:11, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

A request
I haven't got round to the whole Crime and Punishment revision yet, but I do have a small request. Could you make a pronunciation recording of Дми́трий Ива́нович Менделе́ев (Dmitri Mendeleev)? --Oldak Quill 17:56, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sardienik
Hej Peter/Karmosin! Är detta något du har koll på? Kanske t.o.m. talar språket :-). Det verkar vara hyfsat påhittat, kan du verifiera att så är fallet? Gunnar Larsson 18:25, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Artikeln du länkade till finns inte, men jag sökte på Google och fick bara upp gamla wikimirrors och inget annat. Jag har aldrig hört talas om språket, men jag är inte så bevandrad på mindre kända språk. Du borde kanske ta och fråga på WikiProject Languages. Där finns det mycket kompetent folk. Peter Isotalo 13:33, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

Another naming issue
Considering the fact that we shared the same view on Swedish Trade Union Confederation, there is a discussion at Talk:Liberal Party (Denmark) that might be of interest to you. I would find it rather strange if we end up with a policy where Swedish organizations more frequently than organizations of other countries are placed under an English name, just because the Swedish ones have a habit of adopting an official English name. Well, see my comment over there - if you're interested. / Alarm 11:58, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

 * What's your view on the naming of the provinces of Sweden? Most of the names like Ostrobothnia or Nylandia doesn't seem in the least bit merited, but should rather have the Swedish names with the English titles being redirects. Peter Isotalo 12:20, May 1, 2005 (UTC)

 * I noticed that you've raised this issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Swedish provinces and to a large extent I share your view, although there are some problems that might need to be adressed before moving all the articles.
 * From a quick Google search it seems to me that Ostrobothnia (30,800 English-language hits) is far more common than Österbotten (688 hits), but I suppose most, if not almost all, of them refer to modern-day Ostrobothnia (region), which seem to use Ostrobothnia as an official English name. For purposes of clarity it could be argued that it would be reasonable to have them both use the same term (although I would then prefer to move Ostrobothnia (region) to Ostrobothnia and the current article at Ostrobothnia to Ostrobothnia (historic region)).

 * For Nylandia, where there isn't a present-day region of the same name, I notice Nyland outnumbers Nylandia by more than 5 to 1. For provinces in present-day Sweden, the figures are in favour of the Swedish names, but less so than I might have guessed (Medelpad 4,060, Medelpadia 1,910; Härjedalen 5,720, Herdalia 1,830; Uppland 28,400, Uplandia 14,200; Närke 10,700, Nericia 3,410). Considering the fact that many of the pages using Swedish names are probably written by Swedish users rather than native English users, I'm not entirely sure about moving them, although I definitely lean in that direction. / Alarm 14:10, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

 * What I've seen of the editing so far has convinced me that English translations are poorly motivated. Just look at what EB writes about the Swedish provinces. I would bet that most of the editors have never, ever used these term in real life, but just assume that they are correct because they are in English. As far as I know, the naming policies explain that you should use native names when discussing fairly obscure places. Gothenburg is ok, but Nylandia and Ostrobothnia is not.
 * Peter Isotalo 14:17, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

 * You're probably right. Although I tend to be the careful type, I certainly won't oppose a move if you would want to do it. / Alarm 14:44, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I'll have a peek at it sooner or later. I need to get through my current RfC, though. I want to make sure that it's resolved properly before suggesting major changes of Sweden-related articles. Just have a look at Scania. My suggestion there was reverted rather briskly and with little motivation.
 * Peter Isotalo 14:52, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh, and there's another naming discussion at Talk:Social Democratic Workers' Party of Sweden that I really would appreciate if you would have a look at. /Alarm 14:10, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Swedish phonology
You are right that these talk pages are starting to become very confusing for outsiders. There is alot of mediation going on in them now. I see that you have added a proposal for guidelines at the bottom of the mediation section and I have commented on your comment. Let's see if this leads somewhere and if not I will follow up your request on taking this to a new level in the dispute resolution process, provided there is a consensus that this is the best course of action. Inter\Echo 12:35, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Voiceless uvular fricative
Do you have a good reference with regards to the changes you made in the German example? I was contacted by an editor on the German Wikipedia to let me know that voiceless velar fricative was not the standard pronunciation. Here is the reference she gave me. It lists info on several different dialects. I would be interested to see if you have a reference that says otherwise. I am somewhat confused here, as most of the other info on the English Wikipedia does say velar. Perhaps the velar fricative came to be the standard broad transcription, but does not accurately reflect the majority of German speakers. CyborgTosser (Only half the battle) 21:18, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

 * No, that was just me confusing the velar and uvular fricatives. It was reverted by another editor as far as I know. Peter Isotalo 09:54, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * Oops, I didn't see the revert. Still, if you are knowledgeable in German phonology, you might want to participate in the discussion on Talk:Voiceless uvular fricative.  Thanks. CyborgTosser (Only half the battle) 00:40, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

the Swedish wars
Thank you for your feedback, Peter. I really do think there will be progress if both sides are prepared to acknowledge their weaknesses and mistakes. And, after all, it is sometimes wiser to yield with good grace in what you consider a minor point, to accumulate some points of "compromising editor" credibility, and concentrate on what you consider a major point. dab (ᛏ) 10:03, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Old Swedish
Hi Peter, I can resume my work on the articles on Old Norse and Old Swedish if you accept the presentation I now will give you about languages vs. dialects. First of all, the standard definition of dialect vs. language is that speakers of two dialects can talk with each other and understand each other, like Stockholmers, Gothemburgians and Scanians. The standard definition of different languages is that speakers of different languages cannot understand each other if they have not learnt each other's language. Now, the problem with Swedish, Danish, Nynorsk and Bokmål is that they are only different languages for nationalistic reasons and for having independent written standards. If we have a look at Old Norse, Swedes, Icelanders, Norwegians and Danes could understand each other so well until the late Middle Ages that they considered themselves to speak the same language. Don't get hinged up on defining Old Swedish and Runic Swedish as "languages", it will only make the average educated American, Englishman or Australian completely misunderstand the relationship between Old Icelandic and Old Swedish, whereas the definition of these idioms as "dialects" will give them a more correct impression.--Wiglaf 14:14, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't know if I've conveyed another opinion, but what you're saying here has been my notion all along, but with two minor exceptions:
 * Old Swedish doesn't coincide completely with Old Norse, since this stage is divided into two seperate periods; klassisk fornsvenska and yngre fornsvenska ("Classical Old Swedish" and "New Old Swedish"). The former is parallel to Old Norse (-1350), but the latter (1350-1526) is not. Were you thinking of redirecting Old Swedish to Old Norse, or are you just saying you want to point out that the difference was mainly dialectal?Peter Isotalo 19:49, May 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, as far as Old Norse is concerned the contemporary language of Sweden is best described as a dialect.--Wiglaf 09:04, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * The common varieties of Stockholm, Gothenburg or Skåne (as per your example) are not considered to be dialects, but rather varieties of Standard Swedish (rikssvenska). At least the term "dialect" is reserved for the rural dialects (sockenmål, bygdemål, landsmål, etc.).
 * Peter Isotalo 19:49, May 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * The standard Swedish varieties of Stockholm, Gothemburg and Skåne can be called varieties, but the everyday language in these places may have both phonetic, syntactic and lexical peculiarities, in respect to standard Swedish (especially as far as Scanian is concerned).--Wiglaf 09:04, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * In fact, by your definition, we should not even call runic Swedish a dialect of Old Norse, it was a variety. Cheers,--Wiglaf 09:39, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * This isn't my definition. This is what Swedish linguists are saying, and they seem to be quite unanimous about it. Let me quote you some sources:
 * Olle Engstrand (professor of phonetics at University of Stockholm), Fonetikens grunder (2004), pg, 120:
 * I svenskan har man dels skiftningar i standardspråket ('skånska', 'gotländska' eller 'dalmål'), dels stadsmål som 'stockholmska' eller 'göteborska'. Med 'dialekt' menar svenska dialektologer de 'bygdemål' eller 'landsmål' som går tillbaka på en obruten utveckling från fornnordiskan, ett ursprung som f.ö. delas av övriga skandinaviska dialekter - dessa bilder ett kontinuum, medan distinkta 'nationalspråk' som svenska, danska och norska är tämligen moderna konstruktioner.
 * English translation: In Swedish there are differences in the spoken varieties of the standard language ('Scanian', 'Gutnish' or 'Dalecarlian') as well as variations specific to certain cities like 'Stockholmska' or 'Göteborska'. By "dialect" Swedish dialectologists are refering to those local dialects that have a straight lineage that can be traced back to Old Norse, a history shared with all other Scandinavian dialects - these form a continuum while the distinct 'national languages' like Swedish, Danish and Norweigan are relativly recent constructions.

 * Cleas-Christian Elert (professor of phonetics at University of Umeå 1969-1988), Allmän och svensk fonetik (2000), pg, 34-36:
 * Sedan gammalt finns det inom det svenska språkområdet talspråksformer som används i en viss bygd, och som bara i begränsad utsträckning har påverkats av talspråket i centrala delar av Sverige eller av skriftspråket. Det är de genuina dialekterna.
 * [...]
 * Den talspråksform som en besökare på en ort möter mest, är emellertid inte den genuina dialekten utan en regional riksspråksvariant. Ibland talar man om riksspråk i regionala skiftningar eller med regional färgning. I motsats till den genuina dialekten överensstämmer de regionala riksspråksvarianterna när det gäller ordböjning och syntax nästan helt med riksspråket. Så är också fallet med ordförrådet även om förekomsten av enstaka lokala ord eller uttryck kan vara påfallande. Men det är framför allt i uttalet av vokaler och vissa konsonanter samt i satsintonation som de regionala riksspråkvarianterna avviker från det centrala riksspråket. I allmänhet är de i de avseendena lika de genuina dialekterna inom samma region. De regionala riksspråkvarianterna skiljer sig inte starkt från trakt till trakt som de genuina dialekterna gör.
 * [...]
 * Sammantaget har dessa krafter lett fram till att den alldeles övervägande delen av dem som pratar svenska använder regionala riksspråksvarianter, och att dessa närmat sig till den [sic] centrala riksspråket.

 * English translation: For a long time there has existed speech varieties within the Swedish language area which are used only in certain communities and which have only been slightly influenced by the spoken varieties of central Sweden or by the written language. These are the genuine dialects [the bold type is in the book].
 * [...]
 * The variety of language that a visitor to a community encounters most of the time is not the genuine dialect but a regional speech variety [again Elert's bolding]. Sometimes the standard language is described as having regional influences. Contrary to the genuine dialects, the regional varieties are almost identical to the central standard language ["det centrala riksspråket"] in terms of inflection and syntax. Vocabulary is usually also more or less identical, though some local deviations do exist. It is above all the pronunciation of vowels and consonants as well as prosody of the regional variations that deviate from the standard language. Generally these are similar to the genuine dialects within the same region. The regional standard varieties do not differ as much from one community to another as the genuine dialects.
 * [...]
 * Added together these facts have resulted that the vast majority of those who speak Swedish use regional varieties of the standard language and that these have become more similar to the central standard language.

 * Just to ensure you (and anyone else following this discussion) that I'm not quoting some fringe linguists with anti-regionalist agendas, this is what Östen Dahl, professor of general linguistics at University of Stockholm, says in the online version for Nationalencyklopedin, when answering a question from a reader about the concept of Standard Swedish (rikssvenska):
 * Det förnekas inte såvitt jag kan se att ett svenskt standardspråk skulle existera. Problemet är väl snarast hur pass stor variation man anser vara förenligt med ett standardspråk. Språkvetare brukar tala om "regionala standardspråksvarianter" (alt. "rikspråksvarianter") som innefattar t.ex. stockholmska, göteborgska, skånska och norrländska varianter av svenska. De uttalsangivelser som ges t.ex. i NE:s ordbok är inte mer precisa än att de i allmänhet är förenliga med alla de här varianterna. I allmänhet handlar det ju om att ange uttalet av ovanliga ord som folk är osäkra på (till exempel "genre") snarare än att tvinga på någon det "rätta" uttalet av vanliga ord. Sen kan det diskuteras om det också finns en "dialektfri" svenska. Det finns nog en variant som folk uppfattar som neutral, och det är fortfarande den som man strävar efter i många sammanhang, i synnerhet i radio och TV. Men den är egentligen mest något slags utslätad mälardalsvariant, så att geografiskt neutral är den egentligen inte.
 * English translation: As far as I know, it is not denied that a Swedish standard language exists. The problem is rather how much variation is allowed within a standard language. Linguists usually talk about "regional standard language varieties", that include for example variants of Swedish specific to Stockholm, Gothenburg, Skåne or Norrland. The pronunciations given for NE's dictionary are not more generally more specific than that they are consistent with all these variants. Generally it is more about providing pronunciations of rare words which people are unsure of (for example "genre") rather than forcing "correct" pronunciation of common words. It is debatable whether there is a "dialect-free" Swedish. There is a variant that people perceive as neutral, and this is still something that people strive for in many contexts, in particular on radio and TV. But this is more of a bland Central Swedish variant, so it's not geographically neutral.

 * Of course just like many other languages, the dividing lines between dialects and regional varieties are not razor sharp, and this is pointed out by both Elert and Engstrand later on. I have begun to describe this in Swedish language, and I'm not denying that it still needs some work. However, the difference between the "genuine dialects" and the localized varieties of Standard Swedish seem to be undeniable and the dichotomy needs to be explained. That this is the case with modern Swedish is, however, not the least bit relevant to the various dialects of Old Norse, and I would not assume to use the same terms in that context.
 * Peter Isotalo 17:59, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you very much for helping out with the expansion of the History section.
 * You're welcome! :).--Wiglaf 12:44, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Win2k and PR
Cheers mate. Have commented on PR page. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:53, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

WW2
Well, I will try to help with the article. I am a bit scared by the amount of editing and vandalism it gets - it is half impossible to keep track with the changes. Sometimes vandalism can happen in the mid of one's editing... Still, yes, I think we can work together to improve it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 13:29, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Mmm, I can imagine. But considering how many others that are wathcing, I think we might just be able to do it. I'm looking for some good seperate sources on things like the Holocaust and the Gulag right now and then I'll scrutnize the temporary version as best I can. I'll try to make a good todo-list to get us properly focused.
 * Peter Isotalo 13:37, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

Frankfurt International Airport
I'm sorry to change the caption to the photo of the tunnel you recently added, but if I'm not completely mistaken, there is no tunnel connection between Terminals 1 and 2. The people mover mentioned in the article is the SkyLine train which operates automatically and uses tracks above ground. If I visit the airport the next time, I'll try to take a photo and add it (I live near the airport). --Chrysalis 16:10, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I was just guessing about the location of the people mover, so plese correct it, but I'm positive it was not above ground. Do you mean that the picture I took was in a tunnel that was raised somehow?
 * Peter Isotalo 18:52, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

 * There are definitely people movers in tunnels inside the terminals like your picture, only there is no direct connection between the two main terminals via tunnel. To get from Terminal 1 (concourses A,B,C) to Terminal 2 (concourses D,E), you could use a bus or the SkyLine train. --Chrysalis 05:01, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I see. Well, I hope you can figure out which one it is then. Thanks for the pointer.
 * Peter Isotalo 06:18, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

Common phrases in various languages
Hi! The VfD Votes for deletion/Common phrases in various languages seems to be badly constructed in that you suggested a Transwiki move to Wikitravel as an alternative. This is not possible due to licenses differences (Wikitravel is not a Wikimedia project and does not use GFDL). I have no opinion about the actual deletion issue. Being a novice here, I'm uncertain what the appropriate procedure to apply at this point is. -- Cjensen 08:11, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for pointing this out. I've adressed the issue in the VfD comment.
 * Peter Isotalo 11:16, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

Can you drop in at IRC already please?
--Bishonen | talk 14:28, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Map of Chinese dialects
Sorry, I didn't find the data file I'd need, and I'm rather short on time to pursue it much right now. I'll keep it on the back burner if you don't find another source, though. -- Kbh3rd 15:17, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * That's ok. Chinese language isn't really a priority for me right now either. I'll probably get to work on it during summer or perhaps the coming Fall when I start taking Mandarin college classes. I felt that I needed better knowledge of the subject after I requested that Peer Review last time.
 * Thanks for notifying me, though!
 * Peter Isotalo 18:42, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

swedish provinces
Hi Peter -- I agree that the moves are probably uncontroversial, but I don't have the time to do that right now (and I don't think it's terribly urgent), so I suppose you file a move request after all, and see if that leads to quicker results. regards, dab (ᛏ) 07:26, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

The Great Vowel Shock
Hi, Pete, I found my own reference to the amusing DN column on Swedish phonetics for immigrants that I mentioned before, I had dropped it on Steve Rapaport's page on the day the column was in the paper, 10 Jan. So, if you've got a real library within reach, you could read it, if you like. It was quite, uh, striking. Best, Bishonen | talk 03:23, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Infobox colors

 * Sorry Peter, I thought I was on the talk page. My mistake, of course my comment was misplaced there, I've removed it. I will bring it up on the talk page. Again sorry. Paul August ☎ 17:53, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Europa (moon) pronunciation
Thanks for the note; unfortunately I can't open .ogg files with my archaic computer, so I don't know what it sounds like. - MPF 13:23, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * You sure? All you need is latest version of WinAmp. Doesn't that work on most comps? Peter Isotalo 13:25, May 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll have another try later (going offline now) - MPF 13:37, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks; worked OK after I associated ogg with winamp. Sounds fine to me - MPF 16:58, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Gustav II Adolph of Sweden
I do object to your changes. The use of WP:RM states "Approval voting is encouraged for page moves requested on this page." Please have a look at the the talk page under WP:RM for a more detailed discussion of why it is necessary with multiple choices. If having read the page "approval voting" there is anything you do not undesand I will be happy to discuss it with you. Philip Baird Shearer 14:57, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Discussion at WP:FAC Talk
You might be interested in this discussion. Phil s 21:04, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation guides as a Wikibook?
Would it make sense to move the X pronunciation pages to Wikibooks and add links from the X language and/or X phonology pages? Grika 21:24, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Sound like a great idea to me. I suggest linking it from the main language page, since the phonology articles are probably not going to be read by all that many users. Why not bring it up at WikiProject Language Template as well? I think it would be a great idea for a standard external link in all language articles. You have my full support.
 * Peter Isotalo 21:33, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

FAC
Please comment at Featured article candidates/Starfleet ranks and insignia. I'm particularly worried that the article goes into more detail than almost all readers would be interested in reading (not going into so much detail is a FAC criteria). Thus longer sections should be summarized and the detail spun off into daughter articles, allowing readers to zoom to that level of detail if they so choose. Having this much detail in a fancruft FA would set a bad precedent, IMO. --mav 16:40, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

User:GeneralEndicott
Vandal account blocked indefinitely. I go strikeout abuse FAC vote. Bishonen | talk 15:12, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Danish dialects"
My guess is that you would be interested in taking a look at Danish language, Smalandsk and Hallandsk. / Alarm 17:41, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Heja!
Featured Article! Peter rules! Bishonen | talk 11:32, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations! (Du fick den i hamn!) :)--Wiglaf 11:36, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks, guys. I'm still going to amend Mark's and Ta bu shi's minor objections, though.
 * Peter Isotalo 12:55, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

 * I concur with the congrats. Oh Messiah, tell us, where willst thou let thee shiny feathers glow, which page will thou enrichen now, thou Savior? --Fred-Chess 14:33, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm working on World War II as we speak. I hope to get World War II/temp to replace the overly detailed and warcrufty actual article as soon as I'm done copyediting and checking it. After that it's going to be a looong process to get it properly referenced.
 * I'm also very interested in bringing pornography to FA status. It'll be interesting to see if that's actually possible, what with all the misconceptions and prejudices surrounding the subject. Not to mention the constant need to beat off (pun intended) all the porn nerds and immature vandals...
 * Peter Isotalo 17:27, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok, its good to have auch a superior editor in our camp. How could we ever live without you? If you ever have any interest in being a team player and not only act according to your own fancies, you should consider enlisting at Sweden Wikipedians%27 notice board. Seriously. You make qualified,  but autocratic, edits. --Fred-Chess 18:04, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Swedish language and phonology
For a variety of reasons I've been without 'net access the last few weeks, and even now I'm only back via dial-up. I'll try to have the dialect map finished and uploaded soon. As far as the diphthong chart goes, I don't have any information on them yet, so email me the skinny and I'll get on it. IceKarmaॐ 01:14, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC)

Standardized sound tables
I vaguely remember a way to convert html table markup to wikitable markup. Would that make it more easy? I can't be of much help now, since I'm just leaving for a wikivacation. Keep up the good work! Kind regards, — mark ✎ 17:33, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sounds
Can you please make spoken pronunciations only for languages you speak natively or know extremely well?? I love your stuff, but please slow down.

 * If you're refering to the Mandarin pronunciation of PRC, I acted on a specific request over at my userpage at Commons. Other than that I stick to Swedish, Russian and the occasional German sound file.
 * Peter Isotalo 07:42, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

IPA template in tables
Okay, Peter. Makes sense to me. I got the tiebars right at first, but then something was wrong with the way my comp (or maybe Firefox or something, I'm not sure) displayed them, so I got a little confused. Take care. --Whimemsz 19:39, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

Vowel charts
All 14 done, installed into 10 of 13 articles (not done: Japanese, Portuguese, Turkish). Enjoy! IceKarmaॐ 06:46, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)

 * Brilliant! Karma, you are a godsent. I guess you noticed that Japanese phonology already has a vowel chart...
 * Peter Isotalo 13:44, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Today's FA
Swedish language is today's Featured article, good job and congratulations :) bbx 02:24, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Feminist?
Hi there, Peter. I noticed that you have used the word 'feminist' to describe yourself. Wouldn't you agree that the term 'philogynist' is more politically correct? 'Feminism' derives in part from the latin root-prefix 'miso' which often represents hatred. Philogyny is a better term to use, in my opinion. Just letting you know my opinion, that's all, heh. Eric 11:14, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think "feminism" will ever sound more aggressive than you actually let it. A few over-zealous and extremist gender seperatists should not merit a change of terms.
 * Peter Isotalo 21:14, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)

 * You're pretty much right about that part... :) Eric  11:44, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

 * Learn something new every day, though...
 * Peter Isotalo 18:42, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Riorio suggested that I contact you. I am looking for some soundfiles of placename pronunciations. If you have any, or made any, please let me know here. Thanks. Danny 21:25, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Look under each language sub category at commons:category:pronunciation. I haven't been through the them lately, but out of the few languages I've been working with, Swedish and Russian has at least a 100 between them, Japanese and Chinese a few and a handful in Arabic, Portuguese and Quechua.
 * Dutch has over 3,000 so far and German might have something close to that, but they are both exceptions.
 * Peter Isotalo June 29, 2005 22:33 (UTC)

Swedish Wikipedians' notice board
I can see that Fred mentioned Swedish Wikipedians' notice board some time ago, in a previous post here. You haven't signed up, but perhaps you're watching the page anyway? I've updated the page and have the intention to broaden its scope to all issues relevant to Swedish topics. I think it might be useful to use the page as a place for communication between Wikipedians working on such topics - keeping track of ongoing debates and votes relating to Swedish articles, and listing "weak spots" in order to attract the attention of someone knowledgeable in a specific area. So, in case you come across something that might be relevant, it would be very helpful if you took the time to post it there. / Alarm 29 June 2005 22:16 (UTC)

 * A lot of users from Swedish Wikipedia have joined the notice board recently. I have had a very stressful and upsetting experience with that and it involved some of the people who have joined the board so far. I think I'm hanging back until I see how the notice board works out. So I'll just watch for now.
 * Peter Isotalo June 29, 2005 22:39 (UTC)
 * OK, I fully understand that. If you should come across something interesting related to Swedish matters, you're still welcome to post it to the notice bord, or, if you prefer, to my talk page. / Alarm 30 June 2005 09:43 (UTC)

Naming conventions
I'm looking into the North Germanic / Scandinavian issue. In the meantime, I'd be curious to know your thoughts about Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (languages). Regards, — mark ✎ 30 June 2005 12:13 (UTC)

Vanilla Ninja
Hey. I reverted your changes to Vanilla Ninja. You Wikilinked the band members, even though they don't have articles. They redirect back to Vanilla Ninja, making it a self-reference. Just thought i'd explain the revert. Hedley 2 July 2005 14:30 (UTC)

 * You're quite welcome to create stubs instead. If the band is notable enough, then so are the individual members. I'll do it by tomorrow, but I wouldn't mind if you beat me to it.
 * Peter Isotalo July 2, 2005 15:17 (UTC)

East Danish
Hi Peter, I saw that you question the grouping of Scanian with the Bornholm dialect and the classification of Scanian as an East Danish dialect. I am afraid I have no references at hand, but this is exactly what I learnt at school, and I do believe that the claims are quite legitimate.--Wiglaf 6 July 2005 13:02 (UTC)

 * I think I really want references for this one, if only on the talkpage, considering all the pretty blatant anti-Swedish, pro-Danish sentiment I've seen among Scanian editors here on Wikipedia. By school, btw, do you mean elementary/high school or university?
 * Peter Isotalo July 6, 2005 13:05 (UTC)

 * High school, and BTW, I am also fed up with Danish POV-pushers.--Wiglaf 6 July 2005 13:09 (UTC)

 * I've browsed the shelves at the library at SU in search for reference material for Danish language, and I'll probably be going there again before they go on vacation next week. If no one beats me to it, I'll look for sources on the Bornholm dialect and its relation to the southern Swedish ones.
 * You're very welcome to contribute with your knowledge of Old Norse for the Danish article, by the way. Or for that matter, any part of it. I'm going to make another attempt at an FAC with this one as well.
 * Peter Isotalo July 6, 2005 13:15 (UTC)

 * Thanks, I will stay away from Scandinavian language matters in the future, since you have shown me the depths of my incompetence.--Wiglaf 8 July 2005 15:21 (UTC)

Scandinavian
Peter, I am surprised with you. You seem to have very strong feelings about the categorization of the North Germanic languages. Would you care to tell me what you find so offensive?--Wiglaf 8 July 2005 10:47 (UTC)

It is a fact that they are often called one and the same language, etc.

When Swedes, Danes and Norwegians meet in one group, it is considered polite to speak in the Scandinavian language, and Danes may take offense if Swedes find the Danish pronounciation hard to understand and want to speak English instead.

Now, what is your problem?--Wiglaf 8 July 2005 10:49 (UTC)

I know several prominent professors of Scandinavian languages, such Lars-Gunnar Andersson, Henrik Williams and Fridell, and I can assure you that they are much less dogmatic about this categorization.--Wiglaf 8 July 2005 10:55 (UTC)

 * If they support the classification, then you should reference it properly.
 * Peter Isotalo 8 July 2005 14:31 (UTC)

 * Yes, you're right. Since they are only called one language by some politicians and by some common folks, that POV is completely irrelevant. Thanks for explaining the concept of NPOV.--Wiglaf 8 July 2005 15:12 (UTC)

Land drift
Fanfare: Svealand has moved! I have some concerns about Götaland, however. It might be a good idea to merge the existing Gotland and Öland articles with the provincial Gotland and Öland, unless you have a better solution. And the original Skåne article—Skåne alone—looks to me to have been copy-paste moved by Mic to Scania in 2003, unfortunately. Owwwwwww—howling like a wolf—"History merge", ouch! And there's the Finnish aspects of some Norrland provinces, also. Anyway, let's have a word on IRC when convenient. Bishonen | talk 8 July 2005 20:22 (UTC)

Thanks for Sturman
Hey, this is a belated thank you for writing the Sturman article. I put in a request for it (I don't know if you were responding to that or just acting spontaneously) and I appreciate your work, you did a great job. --Camipco 8 July 2005 21:32 (UTC)

 * Just a coincidence, actually, but glad to be of assistance.
 * Peter Isotalo 8 July 2005 23:30 (UTC)

Land drift objected to
Please see Wikipedia talk:Swedish Wikipedians' notice board and Talk:Skåne for a discussion of the name changes. Bishonen | talk 11:30, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Don't be a dick is not a policy, Mr Genius, and it's very subjective assessment, Mr. Genius, just telling me, may be the behaviour of a dick.. :-) Panta rei, --Fred-Chess 13:43, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * You certainly are sharp, Fred. Usually, "don't be a dick" is presented to those that are being rude and obnoxious without actually breaking any official policy. However, Civility, No personal attacks, Cite your sources and Wikipedia is not a democracy (we don't have an obligation to ask you for permission to edit if we have both majority support and proper references on ourside) are policies but you don't seem to care much about them. 'Til you do, I'll simply ignore your snide remarks and unfounded protests 'til you come to your senses.
 * And before you decide to further damage your reputation by protesting, just "Mr Genius" is enough to be considered a pretty bad incivility.
 * Peter Isotalo 14:01, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

An outside opinion on the Scania/Skåne debate
As I've now told Fred, starting a debate about a recent change by saying that one of the people involved is "a genius who knows everything best" isn't very constructive. I hope Fred can learn from this episode and use a more diplomatic approach in the future. I'd also like to ask you to be the bigger man and not join in the name-calling. While I can understand your response to his remarks, calling someone a dick just tend to escalate things. You are very good at presenting rational arguments and facts. Try to stay cool and keep to them, even when under attack. I'm convinced that will be the most efficient approach in the long run.

Also, I'll have to make a comment about your statement on Talk:Skåne - "to say that this is a matter that should mainly be brought up with other Swedes is ridiculous". While I agree that it shouldn't mainly be discussed with other Swedes, it might be valuable to discuss it with them. A significant number of people following the Swedish Wikipedians' notice board might be able to provide input to the issue at hand. Some of them might not have noticed the debate, and posting a brief notice of the plans on the notice board before implementing them would have done no harm. Which, of course, is not the same as saying that such a procedure is in any way mandatory when dealing with Swedish issues - it's just a way of maximizing community input and participation. Which, I believe, also tend to maximize quality in the long run. / Alarm 16:52, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

 * "Don't be a dick" was very well-deserved and is acceptable practice when people behave like it. It's semi-policy and can't be considered mere name-calling. Hell, I wouldn't even call it uncivil. Considering the politeness and patience I've offered Fred so far, I doubt anyone but my bitterest enemies would ever try to call it a policy offense.
 * As for notifying Swedes about the issue, yes, sure it could be an idea. But I really doubt that's what Fred meant. We might as well post it at any other forum that deals with geography or naming policies. In fact, calling upon people who have dealt with these issues before would be better. What I'm trying to focus on is that this is not a Swedish issue; it's a naming policy issue.
 * Peter Isotalo 17:03, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Acceptable practice or not, calling someone a dick is perhaps not always helpful. However, as I said, I find it perfectly understandable, and I haven't accused you of breaching policy. Still, I would consider it name-calling, and I'd like to see some credible academic sources claiming the opposite. :-) / Alarm 17:21, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Trying to beat me at my own game, eh? Silence, you measly Swedish dog, for I am The Authocrat!
 * Peter Isotalo 17:30, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Hebrew language
Hebrew has no affricates? What about /ts/? Good work improving it, in any case :) --Whimemsz 03:28, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * There are tentative affricates in loanwords like "jeep" and "chips", but they might just as well be considered a normal two-phoneme combo.
 * Peter Isotalo 03:38, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, I don't dispute that. I mean, what about /ts/. As in eretz or Tzion? --Whimemsz 02:30, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm using The handbook of the IPA as a source, and for whatever reason they seem to think that affricates aren't phonemic in Hebrew. Other than that I don't know enough Hebrew to make my own analysis.
 * Peter Isotalo 03:40, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Burmese phonology
Sure; can you give me an example of a phonology table I can use as a pattern? --Angr/undefined 15:02, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Never mind, already did it. Take a look: Burmese language. --Angr/undefined 08:54, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Renal failure
Three users have responded on Talk:Renal failure. Please do not revert again. JFW | T@lk  12:26, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

MediaWiki tables
Hej (I hope I'm apologized for keeping to Swedish)

Jag försöker begripa mig på hur syntaxen är när man gör tabeller i MediaWiki utan html-kodning. Jag såg att du skapat en mall sv:Mall:Fintabell, så därför frågar jag dig var du hittat dokumentation av grundstrukturen för tabeller, eller annars om du kan ge en lite beskrivning.

Svara helst på svwiki. RaSten 03:36, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Translation: I'm trying to understand how the syntax works for tables in MediaWiki without html-coding. I saw that you made a template at sv:Mall:Fintabell, so I'm therefore asking your where you found the documentation for the basic structure of tables, or just explain the matter. Reply at svwiki if possible.

 * You're welcome to use Swedish as long as you don't mind me translating and answering in English, RaSten. I won't, however, reply at sv: since I'm not participating. You pretty much know the reasons for that...
 * Anwyay, sv:Mall:Fintabell is based on Template:prettytable. All I did was to (almost) duplicate it and create a Swedish equivalent. I wouldn't be able to explain much about tables, since my modus operandi has been to simply copy what already exists and then fiddling with it as best I can. I've never really used any kind of html before I joined the wikis so my knowledge of it all is still very base.
 * There are however, instructions on how to handle tables at Tables. If it doesn't already exist over at sv:, it might be appropriate to translate it to Swedish. Also do try to read up on Avoid using meta-templates. I don't use {{prettytable}} or anything like it anymore because it apparantly causes unnecessary server load.
 * Peter Isotalo 10:56, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Karmosin/Archive 2


text:
Francis William Reitz

Francis William Reitz, Jr. (Swellendam, 5 October 1844 – Cape Town, 27 March 1934) was a South African lawyer, politician, statesman, publicist, and poet who was a member of parliament of the Cape Colony, Chief Justice and fifth State President of the Orange Free State, State Secretary of the South African Republic at the time of the Second Boer War, and the first president of the Senate of the Union of South Africa.

Reitz had an extremely varied political and judicial career that lasted for over forty-five years and spanned four separate political entities: the Cape Colony, the Orange Free State, the South African Republic, and the Union of South Africa. Trained as a lawyer in Cape Town and London, Reitz started off in law practice and diamond prospecting before being appointed Chief Justice of the Orange Free State. In the Orange Free State Reitz played an important role in the modernisation of the legal system and the state's administrative organisation. At the same time he was also prominent in public life, getting involved in the Afrikaner language and culture movement, and cultural life in general. He was a South African Freemason.

Reitz was a popular personality, both for his politics and his openness. When State President Brand suddenly died in 1888, Reitz won the presidential elections unopposed. After being re-elected in 1895, subsequently making a trip to Europe, Reitz fell seriously ill, and had to retire. In 1898, now recovered, he was appointed State Secretary of the South African Republic, and became a leading Afrikaner political figure during the Second Boer War. Reluctant to shift allegiance to the British, Reitz went into voluntary exile after the war ended. Several years later he returned to South Africa and set up a law practice again, in Pretoria. In the late 1900s he became involved in politics once more, and upon the declaration of the Union of South Africa in 1910, Reitz was chosen the first president of the Senate.

Reitz was an important figure in Afrikaner cultural life during most of his life, especially through his poems and other publications.

Family
Francis William Reitz, Jr., was born in Swellendam on 5 October 1844, as the son of Francis William Reitz, Sr. MLC, model farmer and politician, and Cornelia Magdalena Deneys. He was the seventh child in a family of twelve. He grew up at Rhenosterfontein, the model farm (plaas) of his father, situated on the borders of the Breederivier (Broad River) in the Cape Colony.

Reitz married twice. His first marriage (Cape Town 24 June 1874) was to Blanka Thesen (Stavanger, Norway, 15 October 1854 – Bloemfontein, 5 October 1887). She was the sister of Charles Wilhelm Thesen, and the daughter of Arnt Leonard Thesen, tradesman, and Anne Cathrine Margarethe Brandt. The Thesen family had settled in Knysna, Cape Colony, from Norway in 1869. The couple had seven sons and one daughter. After the death of his first wife Reitz remarried (Bloemfontein, 11 December 1889) with Cornelia Maria Theresia Mulder (Delft, Netherlands, 25 December 1863 – Cape Town 2 January 1935), daughter of Johannes Adrianus Mulder, typesetter, and Engelina Johanna van Hamme. At the time of her marriage Mulder was acting director of the Eunice Ladies' Institute at Bloemfontein. With his second wife he had six sons and one daughter.

Deneys, his son, fought against the British in the Second Boer War, commanded the First Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers during World War I and served as a Member of the Union Parliament, Cabinet Minister, Deputy Prime Minister (1939–1943), and South African High Commissioner (1944) to the Court of St. James's. His book, Commando: A Boer Journal of the Boer War, has for many years been regarded as one of the best narratives of war and adventure in the English language.

Education
Reitz received his earliest schooling at home, from a governess, and at a neighbouring farm. When he was nine years old, he went to the Rouwkoop Boarding School in Rondebosch (Cape Town). Here he stood out for his academic achievements and was subsequently elected Queen's Scholar by the Senate of the South African College in Cape Town. In the six years he spent at the College, after arriving in 1857, he received a broad education in arts and sciences, and developed himself into a well-balanced young man with obvious leadership qualities. He graduated from South African College in September 1863 with the equivalent of a modern bachelor's degree in arts and sciences.

By then, Reitz had developed a keen interest in law, and he continued his studies at South African College, reading law with professor F.S. Watermeyer. The latter's death only months after Reitz started working with him, made Reitz decide to continue his studies in London, at the Inner Temple. It was a decision that needed deliberation, as his father was hoping for his son to return to the farm in due time, and the financial situation of the family was not strong. However, Reitz did go to London, and finished his studies successfully. He was called to the bar at Westminster on 11 June 1867. During his time in England Reitz became interested in politics, and regularly attended sessions of the House of Commons. Before returning to South Africa he made a tour of Europe. Back in South Africa, Reitz established himself as a barrister in Cape Town, where he was called to the bar on 23 January 1868.

Early career
In the beginning Reitz found it hard to make a living, as competition among lawyers in Cape Town was quite severe at this time. Nevertheless, he succeeded in making a name for himself, due to his sharp legal mind and his social intelligence. Being part of the western Circuit Court of the Cape Colony gave him a lot of experience in a very short time. At the same time, Reitz nurtured his political interests by writing lead articles for the Cape Argus newspaper, for which he also reported on the proceedings of the Cape Parliament and acted as deputy editor. In 1870 Reitz moved his legal practice to Bloemfontein in the Orange Free State. The discovery of diamonds on the banks of the Vaal River, Reitz thought, would lead to a growth of legal work and enable him to set up a thriving practice. This was not to be, however, and after a few months Reitz left Bloemfontein to set up as a diamond prospector in Griqualand West, where he bought a small claim near Pniel from the Berlin Missionary Society. This enterprise also proved unsuccessful, and again after only a few months Reitz returned to Cape Town. This time, his Cape Town law practice was successful, ironically because of the British annexation of the Orange Free State diamondfields (1871) and the economic prosperity this emanated for the Cape Colony.

In 1873 Reitz was asked to represent the district of Beaufort West in the Cape Parliament. The day he took his seat, 30 May, his father, who was the representative for Swellendam, announced his retirement from the Assembly. As so many of Reitz's activities up to that point, his parliamentary career was short-lived. Only two months later, President Johannes Brand of the Orange Free State offered Reitz the position of chairman of the newly formed Appellate court of the Orange Free State, despite the fact that Reitz was not fully qualified (inter alia too young). Reitz refused the offer for this reason, but when another candidate also refused, Brand insisted on the nomination of Reitz, and convinced the Volksraad to appoint him.

Judge and official of Orange Free State
With his appointment to the judiciary of the Orange Free State, Reitz came into his own. His arrival – now almost thirty years old and just married – in Bloemfontein in August 1874 was the start of a residency of twenty-one years, as well as the start of a glowing career, to be crowned with his election as State President.

Before the mid-1870s, the judicial system of the Orange Free State was rather amateurish and haphazard in character, particularly because most of the judges were legally unqualified. Most of the judicial procedures were in the hands of district magistrates, the so-called Landdrosts, whose main task was administrative. Reitz's first task was to ameliorate this situation, which he did with much vigour. Well within his first year of tenure the Volksraad passed an Ordinance, in which both a professional Circuit Court and a Supreme court were called into being. Reitz became the first president of the Supreme court and consequently also the first Chief Justice of the Orange Free State. Right from the beginning Reitz showed himself to be a fighter, opposing the Volksraad on more than one occasion, tackling deeply ingrained political traditions that stood in the way of the modernisation of the judicial system, but also fighting hard to get the salaries and pensions of state officials improved. As a colonial – he was born in the Cape Colony after all – he had to win the confidence of the Boer population to have his ideas accepted. This he did by travelling with the Circuit Court through the country for over ten years, acquiring insight into and empathy for their way of life and their often conservative and always God-fearing beliefs. It helped that Reitz himself was a religious person and that he had started out in life in the Afrikaans speaking countryside of the Cape Colony. Eventually he became the symbol of Afrikanerdom for many Orange Free Staters.

Institutionally, Reitz did much for the codification and review of the laws of the Orange Free State. With his colleagues C.J. Vels, O.J. Truter, and J.G. Fraser Reitz published the first Ordonnantie boek van den Oranje Vrijstaat (Ordinance Book of the Orange Free State) in 1877, making the acts and ordinances of the republic available to the larger public. He also played a role in the revision of the constitution of the Orange Free State, with regard to articles on citizenship and the right to vote, was chairman of the examination committee for aspirant practitioners, and contributed to the improvement of the prison system and the district administration.

State President of Orange Free State
Already in 1878, voices sounded for Reitz to run for the presidency, but President Brand's position was still very strong and Reitz openly praised his qualities and refused to stand against him. In the late 1870s and early 1880s the political temperature ran high in the Orange Free State. The annexation of the South African Republic (Transvaal) by the British in 1877 and the First Anglo-Boer War of 1880–1881 in which that republic regained its autonomy impacted deeply on political sentiments in the Orange Free State. On the one hand there were those who propagated caution in the relationship with the British, on the other there developed a political movement that strongly propagated a (reawakened) Afrikaner national consciousness. Reitz was part of the latter, and together with C.L.F. Borckenhagen, editor of the Bloemfontein Express newspaper, he wrote a constitution for the Afrikaner Bond (Afrikaner Union), a political party originally set up by leading Afrikaner politicians in the Cape Colony, like Rev S.J. du Toit and his Genootskap van Regte Afrikaners ('Society of True Afrikaners') and Jan Hendrik Hofmeyr and the Zuidafrikaansche Boeren Beschermings Vereeniging ('South African Boer Protection Association'). Among the supporters of this new Afrikaner nationalism in the Orange Free State was also Reitz's successor, M.T. Steyn, then still a young lawyer. The constitution was presented in April 1881, and several months later Reitz became the chairman of the Bond. His overt political activities earned Reitz criticism from those who feared a breakdown of relations with the British. It is obvious, however, that a wind of change was blowing through the Boer republics and among the Afrikaners in the Cape Colony, which was to change Anglo-Boer relations drastically.

In the Orange Free State President Brand was one of the politicians who held on to a more cautious and consolidating policy towards the British government at the Cape, maintaining strict neutrality. In this position Brand followed the habit of a lifetime, and it earned him a British knighthood. Despite the changing political climate and the polarisation of political positions, Brand remained hugely popular with the burghers of the Orange Free State. The presidential elections of 1883 could on content have become a political battle between the pan-Dutch Afrikaner Bond supporters and followers of the Brand-line. However, Reitz, as the ideal pan-Dutch candidate, again refused to stand against Brand. Only when Brand died in office five years later, the time was ripe for change. Reitz stood candidate and won a landslide victory on the ticket of Afrikaner nationalism. He was inaugurated as state president in the Tweetoringkerk (Two-Towers Church) in Bloemfontein on 10 January 1889.

As president Reitz was one of the first Afrikaners to actively develop a so-called Bantu policy, in philosophy and terminology going beyond contemporary ideas on segregation between white and black. Under his government Indian immigrants were by law forbidden to settle in the Orange Free State (1890). This led to a confrontation with the British government and an extensive correspondence between Reitz and the British high commissioner in Cape Town, in which internal sovereignty was claimed and established.

In economic terms, the late 1880s were a period of growth in the Orange Free State. Agriculture picked up, and the railway system became an important source of income as well. Reitz was instrumental in the modernisation of farming, propagating new techniques and a scientific approach to the prevention of plagues. Here Reitz showed himself the agriculturalist and model farmer his father had been before him.

Under Reitz's presidency the new meeting hall for the Volksraad, the so-called Vierde Raadszaal (Fourth Council Hall) was opened (1893), and the new Government Building received a second floor (1895). Outside Bloemfontein the road network received attention.

As could be expected, immediately after he was inaugurated, Reitz contacted the government of the South African Republic with the objective to establish new and closer political ties. Already on 4 March 1889 the Orange Free State and the South African Republic concluded a treaty of common defence at Potchefstroom. Treaties about trade and the railways were to follow. Even earlier, in January 1889, the Volksraad charged Reitz to negotiate a customs treaty with both the British South African colonies and the South African Republic. On 20 March 1889 a Customs Conference was held in Bloemfontein which led to an agreement between the Orange Free State and the Cape Colony which was hugely beneficial for the former. The economic benefits grew further when new railway lines were opened between the Cape Colony and Bloemfontein (1890) and between Bloemfontein and Johannesburg (1892), directly connecting Cape Town with Johannesburg and turning the Orange Free State into a transit economy. For Reitz the development of a unified South African railway system was also a political goal: the railways as a means to diminish mutual distrust and create unity and mutual understanding between the white population of South Africa.

Reitz's policies were appreciated by the Volksraad, reflecting the change in the mood of the Afrikaner electorate towards Afrikaner nationalism. Months before the presidential election of 1893 the Volksraad endorsed Reitz's candidature with a vote of forty-three against eighteen. Reitz accepted the endorsement on the condition that he be allowed three months leave to Europe. On 22 November 1893 he was re-elected, again with a landslide majority.

The trip to Europe was far from just a family holiday. In Britain Reitz made some strong public statements, defending the republican system of government in South Africa and opposing British intervention in 'Bantu affairs'. On the continent Reitz was received by several heads of state and political leaders. In October 1894 he returned in Bloemfontein. Soon after Reitz was diagnosed with hepatitis, which moreover affected his already strained nerves and led to sleeplessness. The situation was so serious that he eventually had to resign the presidency. The Volksraad accepted his resignation on 11 December 1895.

In June 1896 Reitz travelled to Europe once more on a five-month trip to recover from his debilitating illness. On his return to South Africa he established himself in Pretoria in the South African Republic in July 1897, where he set up a new law practice.

State Secretary of South African Republic
Reitz did not stay a private person for long because a conflict between the South African Republic legislature and judiciary resulted in the dismissal of the Chief Justice. Reitz then took up an appointment as judge in early 1898 and quickly became part of the inner circle of the Transvaal administration. At the time the relationship with the British was already rapidly deteriorating and the government of the South African Republic was taking action to reinforce its national and international position. One of the measures taken was to replace State Secretary W.J. Leyds, who had the Dutch nationality, with a South African. Leyds was appointed Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary in Europe to represent the Republic abroad. Reitz took his place as State Secretary in June 1898, after Abraham Fischer had declined.

As State Secretary Reitz had a complicated and hefty job. After the State President he was the most important member of the Executive Council (Uitvoerende Raad). As the most senior civil servant he was responsible for the oversight over the implementation of the laws and regulations, as well as for all the correspondence of the President, official government reports, etc. He was also an intermediary between the Executive Council and parliament, the First and Second Volksraad, and a key figure in the foreign affairs of the State. Experienced and well organised as he himself was Reitz managed to quickly modernise the structure of the state apparatus, by implementing regulations for the running of the government departments, appointing an archivist for his own, and by prescribing that all correspondence with the government should be in Dutch.

The State President of the South African Republic, Paul Kruger, was not an easy man to work with, and in some circles it was predicted that Reitz would quickly find himself subordinated to Kruger. This was not the case, however. On occasion the two men clashed on matters of policy, but Reitz remained true to his own convictions, gaining some influence over Kruger in the process. Originally praised by the British for his diplomatic courtesy, their attitude quickly changed when they understood that Reitz was a protagonist of Transvaal independence. Reitz was sometimes rather brazen in his political statements, so when he claimed the South African Republic to be a fully sovereign state, the British jumped on him.

In view of rapidly mounting British pressure and an ensuing armed conflict over the position of the Uitlanders and economic control over the Witwatersrand gold fields, foreign policy in the South African Republic was eventually determined by a triumvirate: State President Kruger, State Secretary Reitz, and State Attorney General J.C. Smuts. During 1899 they decided that an offensive attitude towards British demands was the only way forward, despite the risks this entailed. Reitz sought and received the support of the Orange Free State for this approach. On 9 October 1899 the South African Republic and the Orange Free State issued a joint ultimatum to the British government to retract their demands.

The British government did not give in to the ultimatum, and two days later, on 11 October 1899, the Second Anglo-Boer War (South African War) broke out. When the British army marched on Pretoria in May 1900, the government was forced to flee the capital. From that moment on, Reitz was responsible for the continuous relocation of its seat throughout the Transvaal, which occurred sixty-two times until March 1902. In May of that year, Reitz took an active part in the peace negotiations with the British, and he was one of the signatories of the Treaty of Vereeniging, signed in Pretoria on 31 May 1902.

Self-chosen exile and return to politics
Although instrumental in drafting the Treaty of Vereeniging, Reitz personally did not want to swear allegiance to the British government and chose to go into exile. On 4 July 1902, he left South Africa and joined his wife and children in the Netherlands. To alleviate his financial troubles, Reitz set out on a lecture tour in the United States. A waning interest in the Boer cause since the war was over made the tour fail and forced Reitz to return to the Netherlands. There, his health failed him again, leading to his hospitalisation and an extensive period of convalescing. He was then supported by his friends W.J. Leyds and H.P.N. Muller and the Nederlandsch Zuid-Afrikaansche Vereeniging (Dutch South-African Society).

In 1907, after the old Boer republics received self-government, and in the run-up to the formation of the Union of South Africa, leading Afrikaner politicians J.C. Smuts and L. Botha asked Reitz to return to South Africa and play a role in politics again. Together with his wife, he established himself in Sea Point, Cape Town. In 1910, already sixty-six years old, he was appointed president of the Senate of the newly formed Union of South Africa.

These were no easy years, again, as former Afrikaner compatriots found each other on two sides of the political fence, in a rapidly changing world. As in his earlier life, Reitz remained a man of outspoken convictions, which he aired freely. As such, he came into conflict with the Smuts government, and in 1920 he was not re-appointed as president of the Senate. He did remain a member of that House until 1929, however.

Honours and death
As an important public figure, Reitz was honoured and remembered in different ways. In 1923, the University of Stellenbosch bestowed on him an honorary doctorate in law for his public services. Already in 1889, a village was named after him in the Orange Free State. In 1894 one also named a village after his second wife, Cornelia. A ship named after him, the President Reitz, sank off Port Elizabeth in 1947. The Jubilee Diamond, found in the Free State village of Jagersfontein in 1895 was originally named the Reitz Diamond, but renamed in honour of the sixtieth anniversary of the coronation of Queen Victoria in 1897.

When he finally retired from public life, Reitz moved to Gordon's Bay, but returned to Cape Town several years later, where he had a house in Tamboerskloof and was taken care of by his daughter Bessie, a medical doctor. He remained active to the end with writing and translating. Reitz died at his house Botuin on 27 March 1934, and received a state funeral three days later, with a funeral service at the Grote Kerk. He was buried at the Woltemade cemetery at Maitland.

Cultural figure
Reitz was an important figure in Afrikaner cultural life. He was a poet and published many poems in Afrikaans, which made him a progenitor of the development of Afrikaans as a cultural language. As such he sympathised with the Genootskap van Regte Afrikaners (Society of Real Afrikaners), established in the Cape Colony in 1875. Although he never became a member himself, he was an active contributor to the society's journal, Die Suid-Afrikaansche Patriot. With his literary work, Reitz was solidly anchored in the so-called First Afrikaans Language Movement, although he was less interested in the didactic drive of that movement than in writing in Afrikaans as a purely cultural activity. Much of his work was based on English texts, which he translated, edited, and adapted. In the process he produced completely new works of art.

For Reitz, Afrikaans was predominantly a language of culture, not of government, where he propagated the use of the official language of the Boer republics, Dutch. During his presidency of the Orange Free State, where the use of English was significant among the burghers, he strongly promoted the use of Dutch, against politicians like John G. Fraser and others who were in favour of English.

Institutionally, Reitz promoted the foundation of the Letterkundige en Wetenschappelijke Vereeniging (Literary and Scientific Society) of the Orange Free State, of which he was chairman for a while, the library at Bloemfontein, and the National Museum of the Orange Free State.

Afrikaans and Dutch language

 * Reitz, F.W., Hoofregter Reitz over het barbaarsche patois (Paarl 1880).
 * Reitz, F.W., 'De Taalkwestie', De Express and Zuid-Afrikaansch Tijdschrift, Sept. 1891.
 * Reitz, F.W., 'De Hollandsche taal in Zuid-Afrika', De Zuid-Afrikaan, 13 March 1909.

Education

 * Reitz, F.W., 'Opvoeding en onderwijs: een toespraak ... in het Victoria College, Stellenbosch op 15 Junie 1888', Zuid-Afrikaansch Tijdschrift (July 1888).

History

 * Reitz, F.W., 'Schetsen uit die Oranje Vrijstaat', Zuid-Afrikaansch Tijdschrift (December 1890).
 * Reitz, F.W., Brief van den heer F.W. Reitz ... aan den heer P.J. Blignaut ... (Dordrecht: Morks & Geuze [c. 1900]), 12p.
 * Reitz, F.W. & M.T. Steyn, President Marthinus Theunis Steyn, Mannen en vrouwen van beteekenis in onze dagen 33 (Haarlem 1903).
 * Hofmeyr, J.H. & F.W. Reitz, Het leven van Jan Hendrik Hofmeyr (Onze Jan) (Cape Town: Van de Sandt de Villiers 1913), xii, 666p.
 * Hofmeyr, J.H. & F.W. Reitz, The life of Jan Hendrik Hofmeyr (Onze Jan) (Cape Town: Van de Sandt de Villiers 1913), xii, 666p.

Translations

 * Reitz, F.W., translator of Jorissen, E.J.P., Transvaalsche herinneringen (Amsterdam 1897) as Reminiscences of a Transvaal judge. Never published, due to the outbreak of the South African War (Second Anglo-Boer War).
 * Reitz, F.W., translator of Theal, G.M., Korte geschiedenis van Zuid-Afrika 1486–1835 (Cape Town 1891).

A Century of Wrong
At the advent of the South African War (Second Anglo-Boer War), F.W. Reitz, in his capacity of State Secretary of the South African Republic, published an overview of Anglo-Boer relations in the nineteenth century in Dutch, under the title Eene eeuw van onrecht. The book was an important propaganda document in the war.

The actual authorship of the book is unclear. The second Dutch edition of the book carried the text 'Op last van den staatssekretaris der Z.A.R., F.W. Reitz' ('By order of the State Secretary of the S.A.R., F.W. Reitz'). J.C. Smuts is indicated as author, but probably only edited the introduction and the end of the book, in co-operation with E. J. P. Jorissen. The rest of the text was probably prepared by J. de Villiers Roos.

In 1900, translations appeared in German and English. The English translation only carried the name of Reitz, and has a preface by W.T. Stead. The English edition contained more material than the original Dutch edition (see number of pages).

 * Reitz, F.W., [J. de Villiers Roos, J.C. Smuts, E.J.P. Jorissen,] Eene eeuw van onrecht (Pretoria [1899]), 49p.
 * Reitz, F.W., [J. de Villiers Roos, J.C. Smuts, E.J.P. Jorissen,] Ein Jahrhundert voller Unrecht: ein Rückblick auf die süd-afrikanische Politik Englands: autorisierte Uebersetzung aus dem Holländischen, veröffentlicht auf Veranlassung und unter Mitwirkung von F.W. Reitz (Berlin: Walther 1900), 96p.
 * Reitz, F.W., [J. de Villiers Roos, J.C. Smuts, E.J.P. Jorissen,] Century of Wrong, Issued by F. W. Reitz ... With preface by W. T. Stead (London: Review of Reviews [1900]), xxiii, 152p.

Poetry

 * Reitz, F.W., 'Klaas Gezwint en zijn paert', Het Volksblad 19 July 1870. [translation of Robert Burns, 'Tam O'Shanter's Ride']
 * Reitz, F.W., Die steweltjies van Sannie', Het Volksblad 29 November 1873.
 * Reitz, F.W., Klaas Gezwint en zijn paert and other songs and rijmpies of South Africa (Cape Town 1884)
 * Reitz, F.W. (ed), Vijftig uitgesogte Afrikaansche gedigte (Cape Town 1888) [Fifty selected Afrikaner poems] Second edition: Sestig uitgesogte Afrikaansche gedigte (Cape Town 1897); Third edition: Twee-en-Sestig uitgesogte Afrikaansche gedigte (Cape Town 1898)
 * Reitz, F.W., Oorlogs- en andere gedigte (Potchefstroom 1910, 1911) [War and other poems]

title: Francis William Reitz


text:
Madrid–Torrejón Airport

Madrid–Torrejón Airport is a commercial airport in central Spain, a joint-use facility between the Spanish Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of Public Works. The civil part is dedicated primarily to executive and private aviation. The military part (Torrejón Air Base) is the base of several combat, logistics, and electronic warfare units of the Ejército del Aire y del Espacio, the Spanish Air and Space Force, among them the 12 Combat Wing with F-18 fighters and the official planes of the President of the Government and the King of Spain. It is also the base of the European Union's Satellite Centre (EUSC).

The airport was formerly home to U.S. Air Force squadrons at Torrejón Air Base and is located 15 mi northeast of Madrid, 5 mi west of Alcalá de Henares, and 1 mi NE of Torrejón de Ardoz.

History
As the time approached in 1987 for the renegotiation of the existing base agreement, which had entered into force in 1983 for a five-year period, pressures mounted for a reduction of the United States military presence in Spain. Communist political groups and elements of the PSOE had campaigned against the bases. Moreover, the base agreement had become a symbol of United States cooperation with the former Spanish State. It was important to many Spaniards to eliminate vestiges of this history by converting Spain's long-standing bilateral relations with the United States into a multilateral undertaking through NATO.

The outcome of the 1986 referendum on membership in NATO committed the Spanish government to negotiate the reduction of the United States military presence in Spain. Spain insisted that the F-16 aircraft be removed from Torrejón as a condition for renewal of the base agreement, and the Spanish government threatened to expel all United States forces in Spain if this demand were not accepted. The United States felt that the Spanish military contribution was minimal and the Spanish government was permitting domestic factors to dictate a weakening of NATO defenses. Even though Italy subsequently agreed to station the F-16 wing at Aviano Air Base, the cost of transfer would be high, and the unit would be in a more exposed position to Warsaw Pact forces.

In January 1988, Spain and the United States announced jointly that agreement had been reached in principle on a new base agreement with an initial term of eight years, essentially meeting the conditions demanded by Spain. The F-16s were to be removed from Torrejón within three years, by mid-1991. It was expected that this step would reduce the number of United States personnel in Spain by nearly one-half.

Implementation of this agreement was delayed by the 1990–91 crisis in Kuwait, when the 401st TFW was one of the first American fighter wings to respond, with the 612th TFS deploying to its wartime base at Incirlik Turkey and the 614th TFS becoming the first US military unit to deploy to the Persian Gulf State of Qatar. Both squadrons flew numerous operational missions during Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm.

After the 1991 cease-fire in Iraq, plans proceeded to close Torrejón Air Base. On 28 June, the 613th TFS was inactivated and its aircraft sent to Air National Guard squadrons in the United States. The 612th TFS inactivated on 1 October, and the 614th TFS on 1 January 1992.

In accordance with the 1988 agreement, the USAF portion of the base was returned to the Spanish government on 21 May 1996, with the 401st Tactical Fighter Wing being transferred to Aviano Air Base, Italy without personnel or equipment.

title: Madrid–Torrejón Airport


text:
Coso Volcanic Field

The Coso Volcanic Field is located in Inyo County, California, at the western edge of the Basin and Range geologic province and northern region of the Mojave Desert. The Fossil Falls are part of the Coso Field, created by the prehistoric Owens River. They are within the Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake and northeast of Little Lake and U.S. Route 395.

Geology
Initiation of volcanism at Coso preceded the onset of Basin and Range crustal extension there, as expressed by normal faulting. The earlier of the two principal periods of volcanism began with the emplacement of basalt flows over a surface of little relief. Then, during the ensuing period of approximately 1.5 million years, eruptive activity included chemically more evolved rocks erupted upon a faulted terrain of substantial relief. Following a 1.5-million-year hiatus with few eruptions, a bimodal volcanic field of basalt lava flows and rhyolite lava domes and flows developed on Basin and Range terrain of essentially the same form as today's landscape. Many of the young basalt flows are inter-canyon, occupying parts of the present-day drainage system.

The Coso Volcanic Field is best known for its Pleistocene rhyolite. Thirty-eight rhyolite domes and flows form an elongate array atop a north-trending 8 x horst of Mesozoic bedrock. Nearby uneroded constructional forms are exhibited by most domes. Many are nested within tuff ring craters, and a few filled and overrode their craters to feed flows a kilometer or two long. The two oldest domes contain several percent phenocrysts; the rest are essentially aphyric. Obsidian is exposed locally on most extrusions, and analyses of fresh glass indicate that all of the rhyolite is of the so-called high-silica variety; SiO2 content is essentially constant at 77 percent. Other major-element constituents are nearly invariant. However, trace-element contents vary and help define 7 age groups, each of unique chemical composition.

Prehistoric Period
Obsidian from the Coso Volcanic Fields was heavily exploited by Native American Coso People to make knives, projectile points, and the like (Hughes 1998). The chief period of exploitation was between approximately 3000 and 1000 years ago, when people mined obsidian by constructing benches in hillsides and digging deep pits to access raw materials (Elston and Zeier 1984; Gilreath and Hildebrand 1997). Obsidian from the volcanic fields was traded all the way to the California coast in San Diego, San Luis Obispo County, Santa Barbara, California, and throughout the Mojave Desert and regions further east. Archaeologists recognize at least four different geochemical subsources: Sugarloaf, West Sugarloaf, Joshua Ridge, and West Cactus Peak. These different subsources were used to varying degrees in different time periods, but the Sugarloaf and West Sugarloaf were the most commonly exploited geochemical types (Eerkens and Rosenthal 2004; Ericson and Glascock 2004).

Coso Geothermal Power Project
The Coso Volcanic Field is well known as a geothermal area. Fumaroles are present along faults bounding the rhyolite-capped horst and locally within the rhyolite field. A multi-disciplinary program of geothermal assessment carried out in the 1970s defined a potential resource of 650 megawatts electric with a nominal life span of 30 years. Judged by the youthfulness of the rhyolite lavas and by a zone of low seismic velocity crust roughly beneath the rhyolite, a magma body may be the source of thermal energy for the geothermal system.

Commercial power development began in the 1980s. Located within the Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake Station near Ridgecrest, California, power plants at the Coso Geothermal were operated by Caithness Energy, LLC (Reno, Nevada) and sold in 2006. It currently produces 270 MW from four geothermal power plants. More than 100 wells have been drilled throughout the field, with production depths from 2,000 to 12,000 feet (610 to 3,700 m), and temperatures from 200 to 350 C. Coso began generating electricity in 1987. Improvements have resulted in more efficient use of the resource.

Seismicity
The Coso Volcanic Field is one of the most seismically active regions in the United States, producing dozens of tremors in the M1 and M2 range each week. Tremors in the M3 range occur at a rate of 2–6 per month and M4 quakes occur two-three times each year. Recent activity in the M5 range happened in 1996 and 1998 when tremors of M5.3, M5.1, M5.2, and M5.0 occurred within a day of each other. These tremors were actually recorded along the eastern side of the Coso Volcanic Field, 15 miles (24 km). September 30, 2009 to October 6, 2009 there have been 429 earthquakes ranging from 0.1 to 5.2. Some days have activity at about one tremor every minute. On October 2, 2009 there were three earthquakes, (5.2, 4.7, and a 4.9), all within one hour of each other.

On July 4th and 5th, 2019 two large earthquakes sparked a surge of activity in the area in and around the Coso Volcanic Field. The first large quake on July 4 registered M6.4 and the largest on July 5 registered M7.1. Within a week, more than 8000 (M1.0-4.5) smaller earthquakes had joined the swarm, though only 27 quakes larger than M4.5 occurred after the largest events. Surprisingly, there were no fatalities in California. Residents in Ridgecrest and neighboring unincorporated town Trona had moderate to severe property damage. Two structure fires, loss of power for up to 24 hours in some areas, and Trona was without water. Highway 178, one of the two ways in or out of Trona was blocked from rockslides and impassable shifted sections of asphalt. Ridgecrest had declared a state of emergency as a result. One fatality was reported in Nevada in the following days.

Earthquake swarms are common in the Coso area, often producing hundreds of tremors over periods as short as a few days. This brisk and robust seismic activity is common in volcanic areas, such as Long Valley Caldera near Mammoth Lakes, and Yellowstone Caldera at Yellowstone. The Coso Volcanic Field shows examples of volcanic activity, probably last active 30,000 to 40,000 years ago, but ash emission and small cone building episodes may be Holocene (>10,000 years) in age.

title: Coso Volcanic Field


text:
User:Smith2267

Real name: Erik Smith Education: Associate of Applied Science in Veterinary Technology

Senior undergrad student in Zoology, BS program

Special interests: Parasitology, hematology, American Sign Language, American Deaf culture, Veterinary Informatics

title: User:Smith2267


text: User talk:83.70.73.86

title: User talk:83.70.73.86


text:
User talk:E taki

Eran Har-Paz (nicknamed "Taki"). Born December 11th, 1983, in Eilat, Israel. Currently lives in Kfar-Yona.

After graduating from "Handesa'im" (engeneers in hebrew) high-school inTel-Aviv (though he didn't study anything related to engeneering), ocntinued to study physics in Tel Aviv University, as "atudai" in Isrel Defense Force.

Is dew to draft to the army at September 21st, 2005.

title: User talk:E taki


text: Template:User br-1

title: Template:User br-1


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User:Suntree

Greetings! As I said in the New user log, I'm a student, an educator, and a lifetime member of the Society for the Study of Metaphysical Religion. Currently I'm interested in metaphor, personality, belief systems, knowledge, and culture.

I'm currently focusing on the New Thought Movement, and I've added, organized, and edited material using an anonymous dynamic IP address (68.48.145.1) prior to August 20, 2005.

title: User:Suntree


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User:Keithd

I mainly just come here to read. I don't edit articles much unless I'm procrastinating from doing some thing else.

Wikipedia is great where experts have contributed. I'll leave it at that.

de facto - this phrase usually means the word or phrase described is used for shock value instead of accuracy, and often even in spite of provable innacuracy.

title: User:Keithd


text: Talk:Marion, Indiana

title: Talk:Marion, Indiana