text:
Murindó

Murindó is a Colombian municipality located in the subregion of Urabá in the department of Antioquia. It borders the department of Chocó to the north, the municipalities of Dabeiba and Frontino to the east, the municipality of Vigía del Fuerte to the south, and both the municipality of Vigía del Fuerte and the department of Chocó to the west. It is 310 km away from Medellín, the departmental capital. Murindó spans 1,349 square kilometers and is only 25 meters above sea level. It is a municipality without a public water supply and sewage system; consequently, residents must seek water from nearby rivers and natural pools.

History
To date, the patron saint festivals of Murindó are dedicated to Saint Bartholomew the Apostle, as the first settlement founded there was named San Bartolomé de Murindó. The year officially recognized as the initial founding of the town is 1835, with Don Juan Paulino Salazar considered its founder. The community has undergone several changes in its geographical, political, and administrative condition, leading to other versions indicating that its definitive erection as a municipal district was in 1914.

Located on the banks of the Atrato River, this municipality is nestled in virgin jungle, making it highly attractive for adventure tourism. It is full of rivers suitable for fishing, natural pools, and paths through abundant nature.

Murindó also represents a great cultural wealth, resulting from the presence of mestizos, blacks, and Emberá Katío indigenous people.

Political & Administrative Division
In addition to its municipal headquarter, Murindó has jurisdiction over the following districts (according to the departmental management):

 * Bellaluz
 * Campoalegre
 * Opogadó

General Information

Foundational values: Symbol of overcoming and Welcoming land where no one is a stranger. It is one of the few regions in the country where Catio indigenous reserves remain. It is connected by road to the towns of Bellavista and Vigía del Fuerte. It is a fluvial port on the Murindó River.

Murindó is known as a Synonym of overcoming.

Demographics
Total Population: 4,911 inhabitants (2018)

 * Urban Population: 1,760
 * Rural Population: 3,151
 * Literacy: 58.5% (2005)
 * Urban area: 46.5%
 * Rural area: 53.5% Ethnography According to the figures presented by DANE from the 2005 census, the ethnic composition of the municipality is:
 * Blacks (47.8%)
 * Indigenous (42.0%)
 * Mestizos and whites (10.2%)

Economy
The economy is based primarily on agriculture and fishing. Regarding handicrafts, canoes are carved from wood, as are canaletes, pilones, bateas, and tool handles. Hats, cups, and mats are made from vines, leaves, and fruits.

Cuisine
The community offers very typical dishes that deviate from the standard of traditional Colombian cuisine. Additionally, as the municipality does not belong to the Paisa zone of Antioquia, typical Antioquian dishes are not highlighted. Instead, borojó, chontaduro with salt, and fish prepared in various ways are offered. Other examples include pampa, jenene, tumbo, and birimbi.

Festivities

 * Day of Tambeo or the Holy Cross
 * Patron saint festivities of Saint Bartholomew the Apostle
 * Day of the Matachines.

Climate
Murindó has a tropical rainforest climate (Af) with heavy to very heavy rainfall year-round.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Murindó


text:
Mutatá

Mutatá is a municipality in the Colombian department of Antioquia. It is part of the Urabá Antioquia sub-region.

Climate
Mutatá has a tropical rainforest climate (Köppen Af) with very heavy rainfall year round.

title: Mutatá


text:
Nariño, Antioquia

Nariño is a town and municipality in the Colombian department of Antioquia. The population was 8,603 at the 2018 census. It is part of the subregion of Eastern Antioquia.

Climate
Nariño has a cool tropical rainforest climate (Af) due to altitude with heavy to very heavy rainfall year-round.

title: Nariño, Antioquia


text:
Nechí

Nechi is a town and municipality in the Colombian department of Antioquia. The population was 24,066 at the 2018 census.

Climate
Nechí has a tropical rainforest climate (Af) with heavy to very heavy rainfall year-round.

title: Nechí


text:
Talk:EMD AEM-7

Speed
I changed the top speed on Acela Regional from 110 mph to 125 mph since Amtrak now runs all Regional trains at up to 125 mph (and they have dropped the Acela part of the name). I also deleted the reference to Northeast Direct in the top speed spec since there are no longer any NE Direct trains (too bad, I sort of liked that name better).

66.31.111.251

 * Thanks. By the way, you can easily "sign" your "talk" postings by ending your post with four tildes ( ~ ). When you press "Save page", this will be replaced by your username (or IP address) in a handy Wikilinked format and it will also contain a timestamp for your edit.

 * Atlant 23:24, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Toaster
I work for Amtrak, my father worked the railroad, My fathers father worked on the railroad and known of us, nor anyone I know has ever heard the AEM7 be referred to as a Toaster. I sent out a system email to others in the NEC and no one had ever heard of them called a toaster. Where did this name come from? Is a foamers name? --Kev62nesl 05:19, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

 * It's probably mostly a railfan term. Google gets a fair number of hits both in the web space (excluding WIki) and the newsgroup space.

 * Atlant 15:34, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I have heard "toaster" used many times on various train enthusiast message boards; though I don't think the "meatball" nickname is widely used by the public at large.
 * Pressuredrop16 (talk) 23:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I think the meatball term should be ridded. If a Sweedish Meatball is actually boxy, the NN stays. 72.76.181.118 (talk) 22:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC) Out

 * I think I know why the locos are NN'ed the "Sweedish Meatballs". The locos are derived from Sweedish SJ Rcs. It's slang. OK. The Meatball term stays. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.181.118 (talk) 18:46, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I've heard them called "Flying Toasters" as well, in addition to "Sweedish Meatballs" Bart99gt (talk) 14:07, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I've read in Gerald Foster's "A Field Guide to Trains" (Houghton-Mifflin, 1996)the AEM7 referred to as "Toaster". I have also read it in Trains magazine more than once, although I'd have to go back and find the citations for when they used the term.  The "Meatball" term is one I have rarely or never heard.  One of my favorite trains, due to its durability and longevity of service, although there are many locomotives which have served much longer.  I suspect they will continue to remain in service for many years to come.Gill228 (talk) 23:25, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

 * When I was down on October 5th at the 100 year anniversary of Union Station in Washington, the poster in front of a MARC AEM-7 on display listed one of the facts as follows: "affectionately known as Toasters." From my experience, this is the most used nickname by railfans. Is this like other railfan terms, for instance, "Rhinos" and "Amcans?" Are any used by Amtrak crews?Smurfer2 (talk) 02:42, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I too saw the "affectionately known as Toasters" sign and was amused, as I expected to see Swedish Meatball, which wasn't on the sign. Who wrote the signs?  Popularization of terms is often done by the popular press, irrespective of the terms' coinage.  Meatballs are a source of energy and the nickname might have come from that sense (as opposed to shape), although, one must wonder, why not meatloaf?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.32.244 (talk) 00:33, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I've heard them being nicknamed 'toasters' for years. Not a dubious claim -- HarveyHenkelmann (talk) 08:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I was a consultant to Amtrak and the FRA at the time the AEM&'s were first delivered. I believe the AEM7 was nicknamed "Toaster" by the train crews because whent he trains were first delivered they had no air conditioning. Each locomotive was later retrofitted with a roof mounted RV Air Conditioiner. The fact that it was electric powered and shapeed like a box (which is after all what a toaater is) helped make the nickname stick. The boxy shape of the 125mph locomotive, when compared to the streamlined 40 year old GG1 it replaced, also helped.Jkkesler (talk) 19:18, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

"AEM7" or "AEM-7" (hyphen or no?)
Is the proper designation for this locomotive "AEM7" or "AEM-7" (with hyphen)? The title doesn't have the hyphen, but every use in the article does. I was about to move the page to "EMD AEM-7", but I figured I should make sure I was right first. —LrdChaos 15:58, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Even the Amtrak web site is quite inconsistent. It may well be that, at this point in the loco's history, nobody can actually answer this question with authority. The best resource would be the original purchase contracts or manufacturer's documentation.

 * Atlant 16:55, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I got home and realized I have a copy of the EMD Operators Manual for the locomotive, which says "AEM-7" right on the cover. I'm considering that to be pretty authoritative, and accordingly I've moved the page (and updated other pages as needed). —LrdChaos 01:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Well done, thanks!

 * Atlant 15:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

highest horsepower to weight ratio
The sentence:

"... With all the weight on eight drivers, the AEM-7 has the highest horsepower to weight ratio (70 hp/ton) ever, coupled with a sophisticated wheelslip control (Pressductor) system."

should either be deleted or otherwise seriously revised. With no quotation given it does not make sense. Probably it should read something like " ... had the highest ever power to weight ratio at its date of introduction within the AMTRAK network (or: on any US railroad??)". The locomotives certainly do not have the highest power to weight ratio of a locomotive produced so far or only even when they took to the tracks. There are many contrary examples for that over in Europe. Today US loco types like the ALP46s with a weight of about 94to and a rated output of 7100hp certainly have a better power/weight-ratio than the AEM-7s.

Can someone more competent than me rectify that? Thanks & regards, 194.246.46.15 (talk) 13:05, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Source quality
There's a lot of information article that amounts to railfanning lore: scrapped locomotives, number of engines still on the property, etc. It's sourced to dubious sources such as pictures and forum posts, and it's probably wrong (certainly we have no real way to prove that it's right). I think it might be best if we remove it altogether. We should be summarizing reliable sources, not providing the latest best guess on the state of the fleet. Mackensen (talk) 12:41, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Roster
I don't think an individual roster is appropriate for this article. It's not encyclopedic, we don't do such lists elsewhere, and inevitably it's going to be based on railfan lore, which isn't an acceptable source. I'm sure somebody out there is keeping a list (trainorders, on-track-on-line), and we should just link to that. Mackensen (talk) 00:38, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

This information needs a source and it's not encyclopedic. Wikipedia is not a railfanning forum, despite occasional appearances to the contrary. Mackensen (talk) 03:17, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

It's been over two weeks. Is there a verifiable source for the roster? Thanks, Mackensen (talk) 02:56, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Current status section
So I was just reading this article and I noticed on the current status section, it said "all were retired on April 14, 2015." That is absolutely not true because I definitely saw some AEM-7 locomotives running on the Northeast Corridor in December 2015, and it says there are nine left that are active on the list of rolling stock. I'm thinking that should be changed to "all retiring in 2016," or something like that because there are still some AEM-7 locomotives active that Amtrak operates.

TrainExpert105 (talk) 21:53, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I think that's referring to the AEM-7DCs (ACs remain active) but yes, it's confusingly worded and under-sourced. Mackensen (talk) 22:01, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

 * Oh I got it now. Thank you, Mr. Mackensen. I don't normally pay attention to the AC and DC part of the AEM-7s, but that does make sense to me now. TrainExpert105 (talk) 22:16, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

I've taken this section out. It's unencyclopedic and unreferenced. I also know that it's inaccurate, at best. Mackensen (talk) 02:07, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

""with a mandate to reverse decades of decline.""
that's literally why it was done...no, it really wasn't, although I don't dispute that this claim was made. A good part of the support for AMTRAK came from people who expected it to fail. Anmccaff (talk) 18:01, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, some of the Class Is expected it to fail and to be rid of their passenger trains. The public mandate of Amtrak was to reverse decline. The conflicting motives are already discussed at Amtrak and they're beyond the scope of the article. That mandate is relevant in the context of Amtrak ordering new, improved equipment. By the time the AEM-7 order comes through it's clear that Amtrak isn't going to be the "last hurrah" that some expected, and that's the spirit in which this article treats that topic. Mackensen (talk) 18:08, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Not just the Class Is. Some of the pols setting it up, and a goodly number of insiders in DOT itself.  Anmccaff (talk) 18:13, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Regardless of intentions, the official public mandate was to reverse decline. (Never mind that even those who expected failure had more optimism for the NEC - when the RPSA was passed, the Metroliners were impressing everyone). The current wording in the article is just fine and doesn't need to be muddled with historical footnotes that were long irrelevant by the time the toasters came around. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 05:57, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * No need to add any muddlesome explanations and footnotes; just leave it out. Anmccaff (talk) 16:48, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Rename to Amtrak Class AEM-7
Article needs to be renamed per recent decisions and page moves by User:The ed17 (e.g. PRR L6 to Pennsylvania Railroad class L6
 * That doesn't follow. Those locomotives were named after the railroad that operated them; this one (like hundreds of others) is named after the manufacturer. It can probably be demonstrated from sources that the use EMD (and GE) is so common that WP:NCA isn't offended. Even if it is, the name would be Electro-Motive Division AEM-7, not Amtrak Class AEM-7. It was never called that, and wasn't unique to Amtrak. Mackensen (talk) 13:21, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

 * As Mackensen. EMD reflects actual usage, & avoids the side issues of other buyers and other marketing, Again, as mentioned above, expanding PRR isn't analogous. Anmccaff (talk) 16:39, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Pueblo move
I realize that railfanning forums are following the movement of two AEM-7s to Pueblo with great interest, but the information is not encyclopedic and doesn't belong here. Once there's a story in a reliable source about why they moved to Pueblo, then we might have something. Mackensen (talk) 03:41, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * They are being moved there to allow the test track for high-speed testing of the overhead catenary system (OCS). This is preparation for the test-track to see whether the existing OCS is suitable for testing the Avelia Liberty train sets. These may need to be tested at up to 165 mph, but the center needs to know whether the catenary needs replacement, and also whether the reverse curve at the top of the main test loop needs to be removed/straightened. You'll need to dig deep to find a source for this ... but you heard it hear first!! Morphenniel (talk) 16:42, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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SEPTA retirement
I agree that it's likely that SEPTA will retire its AEM-7 fleet in 2018. However, it hasn't yet, and per WP:CRYSTALBALL the article should reflect that. This edit introduces a WP:INTEGRITY problem by adding the 2018 claim to a source published in 2015. Mackensen (talk) 14:00, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I added a few citations to support the edits by Special:Contributions/96.234.22.42 (talk) Daybeers (talk) 23:04, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but your edit isn't an improvement. It needlessly duplicates existing sources, adding them to the lede. All of those sources state an expected delivery date of 2018. That's happening, though none of our sources say so. Delivery is one thing; these locomotives actually entering revenue service is another. Mackensen (talk) 23:12, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, first of all, you removed helpful citations I added about the final run of Amtrak's AEM-7s in June 2016 and MARC's retirement of their AEM-7s in April 2017. Secondly, I added that SEPTA expects to replace its fleet in 2018, which doesn't imply it is a definite event. Also, your most recent edit pretty much says the same thing as the edits I made, just further down in the article. I have added back in my information in the lead using your source for the SEPTA information, which is more recent than the ones I was using. Daybeers (talk) 23:34, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why you're adding citations to the lead for information that's already cited in the text. It's unnecessary, and goes against MOS:CITELEAD. You also managed to remove the web archive URL for the Curbed source. So we have a mangled source, duplicated sources. If you're just trying to add "in 2018" to the end of the lead then that's fine, but everything else you've done is completely unnecessary and in some cases counterproductive. Mackensen (talk) 23:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The web archive isn't needed, as the link is still active on Curbed's site. I apologize for adding the citations in the lead, which you feel are unnecessary. In my opinion, I feel that when reading an article, adding citations to the lead makes it easier to find sources for pieces of information, rather than having to find the same claim later in the article. However, I have read and respect MOS:CITELEAD. Daybeers (talk) 00:03, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Caltrain
It's hard to parse out what's new in the addition given that the paragraphs were also reshuffled. Has Caltrain actually bought the AEM-7s? I was under the impression that it was still under discussion, but that nothing was final. Mackensen (talk) 00:23, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I believe that's what the section is trying to say: that it's not formal yet. I also personally feel the reshuffling results in better reading. –Daybeers (talk) 00:46, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I apologize for reshuffling and adding content simultaneously. Here is what I was trying to add to the section (shown in red and with references commented out:
 * Caltrain, which operates commuter trains in the San Francisco Bay Area, showed interest in purchasing several retired Amtrak AEM-7s to test their electrified line once completed. The units would also serve as backup power for EMU cars. In January 2018, separate contracts were ready to be awarded to Amtrak (for refurbishment) and Mitsui (for purchase) for electric locomotives. Mitsui owns several ex-Amtrak AEM-7 locomotives, and it has not been reported how many of these will be sold to Caltrain.
 * The January 2018 PCEP progress report (page 49, cited in added text) states the contracts are ready to be awarded to Amtrak and Mitsui, so I believe the purchase is imminent but not final. It can be inferred (but is not explicit from the reference) the electric locomotive(s) to be purchased are AEM-7AC owned by Mitsui, since it is unlikely that Amtrak would have the technical expertise to refurbish any other model and Mitsui is a known owner of several AEM-7AC locomotives. However, since much of the added content is speculative, I will abide by the reversion until the actual contracts are awarded and referenced.
 * Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 14:55, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I created a sandbox with proposed restructuring that eliminates the speculative purchase by Caltrain, if it's helpful. Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 15:12, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Ownership, with all the various leases and leasebacks, can be a real rat's nest. I'd prefer to wait until the deal is actually inked and announced. The article already notes that Caltrain is interested. Mackensen (talk) 23:06, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds fair. I'll keep an eye on the board meeting minutes/progress reports to see if the contracts are awarded. Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 18:20, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm putting this here for now to keep track ... from Monthly Progress Reports, PCEP Delivery Coordination Meeting status updates: Based on the singular noun, it looks like one AEM-7(AC) is being procured from Mitsui. I prefer to wait until an announcement is made, as this is quite a bit of reading between the lines. Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 19:07, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Dec 5: "The white paper addressed to the FTA regarding the AEM-7 Electrification Test Locomotive was sent on Thursday, November 16." source, page 11/104
 * Dec 19: " The FTA accepts PCEP moving forward with locomotive procurement, and the contract for Mitsui has been readied." [same source]
 * Jan 2: "The Memorandum of Understanding for the AEM-7 Electrification Test Locomotive has been finalized and sent to Mitsui." source, page 12/118
 * Clem Tillier states that #938 and #929 are headed to Caltrain. #938 will be made operational using parts from #929. The comment on his blog is hardly a reliable source, but it agrees with the "clues" being left by Caltrain. Still waiting to hear an official announcement from Caltrain. Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 22:06, 26 March 2018 (UTC)

Preserved units

 * Ex-Amtrak No. 915 was moved to the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in June 2015. source
 * Ex-Amtrak Nos. 928 and 942 were moved to the Transportation Technology Center, Inc. in July 2017. source1, On Track On Line source2, Amtrak in the Heartland blog
 * Ex-Amtrak No. 945 was moved to the Illinois Railway Museum in February 2018. source1, Trains magazine (subscription required, unable to read text) source2, Amtrak in the Heartland blog

I'm putting these here for now. The disposition of 928, 942, and 945 are still not confirmed by reliable sources. I'm not sure if TTCI will release press information to confirm 928 and 942, and the transfer to IRM may need a week or two to see a press release. Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 15:01, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Locomotives sent to TTCI should not be considered preserved in any case. It is a testing center, not a museum, and it is unlikely that those two locomotives will last long. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 16:48, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * For 945, the Trains report says "[a] source close to the museum confirms to Trains News Wire the addition of motor No. 945." That seems okay, but I agree waiting makes sense. Regarding 928 and 945, Sanders is an expert on Amtrak but when he writes "Online reports" he means RAILROAD.NET or something similar. I've heard conflicting things about why they're at the TTC. See also above. Mackensen (talk) 16:49, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
 * This article states that Unit 945 is heading for the Illinois Railway Museum - Morphenniel (talk) 16:38, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, and it's referring to the Trains post linked at the top of this section. I've been keeping an eye on the IRM website and they haven't announced anything. Mackensen (talk) 20:47, 26 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The Museum's Facebook page also confirms it . I guess that the website won't be updated until it actually arrives at the site and/or is on display. Morphenniel (talk) 11:19, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

 * Latest news: Danbury Railway Museum now has 917. Davidng913 (talk) 17:45, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Retirement reasons?
Is aging the only reason why this locomotive retired? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clrichey (talk • contribs) 05:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Fleet summery list
I think there should be a table listing all the operators that have used the AEM 7. This would include the operators, number of units, fleet numbers, build dates, and notes. several other train engine articles already have fleet summery tables. Trimetwes fan1003 (talk) 22:39, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Typically such rosters only include original owners (see my recent comment at Talk:EMD F40PH for the reasoning). That's a short table in this case: Amtrak, MARC, and SEPTA. Probably why one was never included before. The EMD F40PH is something of an outlier in Amtrak locomotives in that it found wide use with other railroads (another that has, Siemens Charger, also has a table). Mackensen (talk) 23:48, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:EMD AEM-7


text:
Wikipedia talk:Selected anniversaries/August 20

Image to replace the Flag of Estonia ?
Can we replace the with, or  or , please ? There are too many flags on the Main Page at the same time today. Thanks. -- 199.71.174.100 02:45, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

 * There's only one flag on the main page. The images may not be familiar by many users. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  08:57, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

 * The Flag of Burundi was removed from 'In The News'. BTW, I find it strange that Wikipedians would be unfamiliar with Tchaikovsky.  If they are indeed unfamiliar, maybe they should see the photo of him. It goes with the 1882 event. -- 199.71.174.100 20:20, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

2012 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 19:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Omitted: Battle of Achelous (917); 1812 Overture; Marchioness disaster; Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory/Cruise missile strikes on Afghanistan and Sudan (August 1998)
 * Included: Battle of Yarmouk (2nd appearance, last in 2010); Battle of Saragossa (first appearance); Yellowstone fires of 1988 (first appearance); O-Bahn Busway (2nd appearance, last in 2010); Spanair Flight 5022 (2nd appearance, last in 2010)

2013 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 16:05, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory/Cruise missile strikes on Afghanistan and Sudan (August 1998) (Al-Shifa currently undergoing major revision)
 * Rescued from Ineligible (unused): Estonia (still appears as observance)
 * New articles (unused): Prince of Ning rebellion (appeared on DYK in June 2013); Battle of Taegu; NS Savannah
 * Omitted: Battle of Yarmouk; Battle of Saragossa; 1812 Overture; Yellowstone fires of 1988; O-Bahn Busway; Spanair Flight 5022
 * Included: Battle of Achelous (917) (5th appearance, last in 2011); Siege of Pensacola (1707) (first appearance); Great Fire of 1910 (first appearance); Never was so much owed by so many to so few (first appearance); Ballygawley bus bombing (first appearance)

Edit request on 20 August 2013
the link within 'on this day' to Washington is to a disambiguation page - it seems like it ought to say Washington.

EdwardLane (talk) 11:51, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Yes check.svg Done -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:21, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

2014 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 06:33, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Deleted: Prince of Ning rebellion (featured on July 10)
 * Moved to Ineligible: O-Bahn Busway (maintenance)
 * Rescued from Ineligible (unused): Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory/Cruise missile strikes on Afghanistan and Sudan (August 1998)
 * Omitted: Battle of Achelous (917); Siege of Pensacola (1707); Great Fire of 1910; Never was so much owed by so many to so few; Ballygawley bus bombing
 * Included: Battle of Saragossa (2nd appearance, last in 2012); 1812 Overture (7th appearance, last in 2012); KLB Club (first appearance; 70th anniversary); NS Savannah (first appearance); Marchioness disaster (2nd appearance, last in 2011; 25th anniversary)

2015 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 06:53, 18 August 2015 (UTC) 1965 – Keene, NH Episcopal seminarian Jonathan Daniels, 26, is martyred; murdered by shotgun at point-blank range in Hayneville, AL, by an unpaid sheriff's deputy, sacrificing his life for young black activist Ruby Sales whom he pushed out of the way of the blast. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnWilmerding (talk • contribs) 21:03, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Omitted: Battle of Saragossa; KLB Club; NS Savannah; Marchioness disaster
 * Included: Battle of Yarmouk (3rd appearance, last in 2012); Siege of Pensacola (1707) (2nd appearance, last in 2013); Never was so much owed by so many to so few (2nd appearance, last in 2013; 75th anniversary); O-Bahn Busway (3rd appearance, last in 2012; rescued from Ineligible)
 * Repeats: 1812 Overture (2nd consecutive appearance, 8 total)
 * request: Would an admin please add this entry which I just made on the larger list of August 20 anniversaries? It would mean a great deal to Ruby Sales, whose life was saved by Jonathan Daniels, and who will be appearing in Keene NH this week in anniversary observances:
 * Sorry, that entry is not notable enough for inclusion on the Main Page. — howcheng  {chat} 21:33, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

2016 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 06:25, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: Battle of Taegu (maintenance)
 * Omitted: Estonia (ineligible—maintenance); Battle of Yarmouk; Siege of Pensacola (1707); Never was so much owed by so many to so few; O-Bahn Busway (ineligible—maintenance)
 * Included: Agrippa Postumus (first appearance); Battle of Saragossa (3rd appearance, last in 2014); NS Savannah (2nd appearance, last in 2014); Operation Infinite Reach (2nd appearance, last in 2011)
 * Repeats: 1812 Overture (3rd consecutive appearance, 9 total)

2017 notes
The 1812 Overture line had better be amended, if the article is correct: "Although Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture was written with the building's completion in mind, it had its world premiere in a tent outside the unfinished church in August 1882." Sparafucil (talk) 23:03, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

2017 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 07:40, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: Never was so much owed by so many to so few (maintenance)
 * Omitted: Agrippa Postumus (ineligible—maintenance); Battle of Saragossa; NS Savannah; Operation Infinite Reach
 * Included: Battle of Achelous (917) (6th appearance, last in 2013; 1100th anniversary); Siege of Pensacola (1707) (3rd appearance, last in 2015); Yellowstone fires of 1988 (2nd appearance, last in 2012); Spanair Flight 5022 (3rd appearance, last in 2012); Jerónimo Osório (first appearance); James Prinsep (first appearance); Ron Paul (first appearance)
 * Repeats: 1812 Overture (4th consecutive appearance, 10 total)

2018 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 04:11, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: KLB Club
 * New articles (ineligible): Amy Adams (TFA for 2018)
 * Omitted: Battle of Achelous (917); Siege of Pensacola (1707); 1812 Overture; Operation Infinite Reach; James Prinsep; Ron Paul; Narendra Dabholkar
 * Included: Battle of Yarmouk (4th appearance, last in 2015); Battle of Saragossa (4th appearance, last in 2016); Pluto (3rd appearance, last in 2015; moved from March 19); Battle of Taegu (first appearance); Jeremi Wiśniowiecki (first appearance); Rudolf Bultmann (first appearance); Mika Yamamoto (first appearance)
 * Repeats: Yellowstone fires of 1988 (2nd consecutive appearance, 3 total; 30th anniversary)

2019 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 16:51, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: 1812 Overture (maintenance)
 * New articles (unused): Bolesław Prus; H. P. Lovecraft; Andrew Garfield; Jack King (footballer, born 1985)
 * Omitted: Battle of Saragossa; Pluto; Battle of Taegu; Yellowstone fires of 1988; Jeremi Wiśniowiecki; Rudolf Bultmann; Mika Yamamoto
 * Included: Siege of Pensacola (1707) (4th appearance, last in 2017); National Football League (first appearance); Ballygawley bus bombing (2nd appearance, last in 2013); O-Bahn Busway (4th appearance, last in 2015; 30th anniversary); Henry Every (2nd appearance, last in 2017; moved from August 23); Phil Lynott (first appearance; 70th birthday); Amy Adams (first appearance)
 * Repeats: Battle of Yarmouk (2nd consecutive appearance, 5 total)

2020 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 01:32, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Deleted: Agrippa Postumus (date unknown)
 * Moved to Ineligible: H. P. Lovecraft (maintenance)
 * Rescued from Ineligible (unused): Battle of Fallen Timbers; Marchioness disaster
 * New articles (unused): Terry Sanford; Leona Helmsley
 * Omitted: Battle of Yarmouk; Siege of Pensacola (1707); Ballygawley bus bombing; O-Bahn Busway; Phil Lynott; Amy Adams
 * Included: Simeon I of Bulgaria (6th appearance, last in 2017 on his death anniversary; blurb previously featured Battle of Achelous (917), which is currently ineligible); 1812 Overture (11th appearance, last in 2017; rescued from Ineligible); Battle of Taegu (2nd appearance, last in 2018; 70th anniversary); Spanair Flight 5022 (3rd appearance, last in 2012); Bolesław Prus (first appearance); Kelsey Weems (first appearance)
 * Repeats: National Football League (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total; 100th anniversary); Henry Every (2nd consecutive appearance, 3 total)

2021 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 17:54, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * New articles (ineligible): Tongmenghui (maintenance); Eadberht of Northumbria (date not certain)
 * Rescued from Ineligible (unused): George Tucker (politician)
 * Omitted: Simeon I of Bulgaria; 1812 Overture (ineligible—maintenance); National Football League; Battle of Taegu; Spanair Flight 5022; Henry Every; Bolesław Prus; Kelsey Weems
 * Included: Battle of Saragossa (5th appearance, last in 2018); Battle of Fallen Timbers (5th appearance, last in 2010); Pluto (10th appearance, last in 2018); Stanford prison experiment (first appearance; 50th anniversary); Marchioness disaster; (3rd appearance, last in 2014) Jeremi Wiśniowiecki (2nd appearance, last in 2018); H. P. Lovecraft (first appearance; rescued from Ineligible); B. K. S. Iyengar (first appearance)

2022 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 16:54, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: NS Savannah (maintenance)
 * Omitted: Battle of Saragossa; Battle of Fallen Timbers; Stanford prison experiment (ineligible—maintenance); Marchioness disaster; Jeremi Wiśniowiecki; B. K. S. Iyengar
 * Included: Simeon I of Bulgaria (7th appearance, last in 2020); Battle of Taegu (3rd appearance, last in 2020); O-Bahn Busway (5th appearance, last in 2019); Bolesław Prus (2nd appearance, last in 2020; 175th birthday); Amy Adams (2nd appearance, last in 2019)
 * Repeats: Pluto (2nd consecutive appearance, 11 total); H. P. Lovecraft (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total)

2023 rationale
 Heart  (talk) 05:38, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Good selection to choose from
 * Added a new picture, it should be creative commons license, no fair use justification needed.


text:
The Name of the Game (ABBA song)

"The Name of the Game" is a 1977 song by Swedish pop group ABBA, released as the first single from the group's fifth studio album, ABBA: The Album (1977). It became a UK number one, topping the UK Singles Chart for four weeks in November 1977.

Background and release
"The Name of the Game", first called "A Bit of Myself", was the first song to be recorded for ABBA's fifth studio album, following the band's European and Australian tour. It was their most complex composition yet – with Agnetha Fältskog and Anni-Frid Lyngstad sharing the lead vocals but with solo passages from both women – and contained the influences of the laid-back California sound of the day.

The opening riff on bass and synthesizer is inspired by Stevie Wonder's "I Wish" from the 1976 album Songs in the Key of Life, and both Andersson and Ulvaeus have acknowledged being inspired by Wonder's music during this part of ABBA's career.

A preliminary version of "The Name of the Game" was worked into the 1977 feature film ABBA: The Movie, for which it was written. When it was eventually finished, it was released as the lead single from ABBA: The Album in October 1977. Originally, another track entitled "Hole in Your Soul" was intended for release, but those plans were soon shelved. "The Name of the Game" was released with a live version of "I Wonder (Departure)" as the B-side. This B-side was one of several songs written for the mini-musical The Girl with the Golden Hair, written by Ulvaeus and Andersson and originally performed by ABBA on their 1977 world tour. The recording used on "The Name of the Game" single was recorded at Sydney Showground, Sydney, Australia on 3 or 4 March 1977. A studio recorded version of the song was included on ABBA: The Album.

"The Name of The Game" also marks the last time Stig Anderson helped with the lyrics of a single.

Reception
Billboard called "The Name of the Game" one of ABBA's "most stately, dramatic works to date." Cash Box said that "layers of acoustic guitars play a classic chord progression in the irresistable chorus." Record World said that "the emotion expressed is again secondary to the compelling nature of the music, as usual simple but dramatic." In 2017, Billboard ranked the song number six on their list of the 15 greatest ABBA songs, and in 2021, Rolling Stone ranked the song number three on their list of the 25 greatest ABBA songs.

"The Name of the Game" topped the UK Singles Chart for 4 weeks. It was the second of three consecutive UK No. 1 singles after "Knowing Me, Knowing You", and before "Take a Chance on Me".

The song was a Top 5 hit in ABBA's native Sweden, Belgium, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, South Africa and Rhodesia, while peaking inside the Top 10 in Australia, West Germany, Switzerland and Mexico. On the US Billboard Hot 100, "The Name of the Game" almost reached the Top 10, peaking at No. 12 on 11–18 March 1978.

As of September 2021, it is ABBA's eight-biggest song in the UK.

An edited version of "The Name of the Game", which omitted the entire second verse of the song, reducing the length of the track from its original 4:51 to 3:58, was released on a promotional single in the US. The US Promo Edit of "The Name of the Game" then – apparently by mistake – found its way onto the 1982 Polar Music compilation The Singles: The First Ten Years, and then onto a number of hits packages issued on both vinyl and CD in the 1980s and early 1990s. This edit also appears on the original 1992 version of the group's Gold: Greatest Hits album. Not until the 1999 remastered edition of Gold: Greatest Hits did the song appear in its entirety on that compilation.

When PolyGram released the first digitally remastered CD version of The Album in 1997, the fact that one of the nine tracks was nearly a minute shorter than it was supposed to be somehow managed to elude the remastering engineers – the US Promo Edit was again used by mistake and the first edition was subsequently withdrawn.

"The Name of the Game" was sampled in 1996 by the Fugees for their hit "Rumble in the Jungle", the first time that an ABBA song had been legally sampled by another act.

Music video
Like most of ABBA's videos, the video was directed and shot by Lasse Hallström. During the video, the four members of the group are shown playing the board game "Fia-spel", the Scandinavian version of the German board game "Mensch ärgere dich nicht", which is a variation of the English board game Ludo and American Parcheesi.

Cover versions

 * In 1995 Any Trouble covered the song.
 * In 1999, Swedish pop group A-Teens covered the song on their debut album, The ABBA Generation. Their version, like the U.S. release, omits the second verse.
 * In the late 1990s, a dance cover by Abbacadabra was released through Almighty Records. An audio sample can be heard on the official Almighty Records website.
 * In 2004, American-born German singer Sydney Youngblood covered the song for the German compilation ABBA Mania.
 * In the stage musical Mamma Mia!, the song is performed by the characters of Sophie and Bill.
 * In the 2008 film adaptation, Amanda Seyfried and Stellan Skarsgård performed the song in a scene that was ultimately cut, however the song appears on the film's soundtrack performed solely by Seyfried.
 * The song was again performed in the sequel, Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again, this time by Lily James.
 * In 2018, Cher covered the song on her twenty-sixth studio album Dancing Queen, an album made up of ABBA covers.

title: The Name of the Game (ABBA song)


text:
Talk:David Newhan

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text: User talk:63.19.142.68

title: User talk:63.19.142.68


text:
Talk:Nedumpoil

Vote for Deletion
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 02:56, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nedumpoil


text:
Reynaldo A. Duque

Reynaldo A. Duque (29 October 1945 – 8 April 2013) was a multilingual Ilocano writer (he wrote in Ilocano, Filipino, and English) who was the editor-in-chief of Liwayway magazine, the leading Filipino (Tagalog) weekly magazine in the Philippines. He was a fictionist, novelist, poet, playwright, radio/TV/movie scriptwriter, editor, and translator.

A multi-awarded author, among his numerous literary decorations is the Palanca Hall of Fame Award bestowed on him in 2003 for having won five first prizes in the prestigious Palanca Awards. He was also first prize winner in Filipino Epic in the 1998 Centennial Literary Awards sponsored by the Philippine Government.

He was a native of Bagani Ubbog, Candon, Ilocos Sur.

Awards

 * Cultural Center of the Philippines (CCP) Writing Grants
 * Palanca Awards
 * Talaang Ginto-Gantimpalang Collantes
 * Centennial Literary Awards
 * Pedro Bucaneg Award
 * Gov. Roque Ablan Awards for Iloko Literature (GRAAFIL)

title: Reynaldo A. Duque


text:
Talk:Mid-Atlantic Christian University

Vote for Deletion
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 02:58, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Rbc.jpg
Image:Rbc.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 17:37, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Traditions
I removed the "Traditions" section. It's mentioned here, but it sounds trivial and missing from independent third-party sources. StAnselm (talk) 04:14, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't this be an appropriate reference as the event is actually sponsored by the school? I also think this is along the same lines of traditions listed for other colleges and universities. Just beacause this college is smaller (and thus the event is smaller), I don't think it should be excluded. Blueman33 (talk) 10:50, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Added back Traditions section. Similar sections can be found on these pages: Texas A&M University, University of Tennessee, North Carolina State University, and others. Some colleges and universities even have an entire page devoted to their student traditions. Third party sources, although not very academic, can be found here, here, here, here, here, and here. For now I’ll leave the college’s page as the primary source. Blueman33 (talk) 16:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Notable Alumni
Added back Notable Alumni section as there are at least 2 notable alumni. Blueman33 (talk) 16:30, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

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text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Innate differences between the sexes

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Coffee 10:08, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Innate differences between the sexes
I believe this article does not contribute any facts related to the differences between the sexes. If I did, I would suggest the material be merged into Sexual dimorphism. If the title was not unwieldly, I would suggest deletion of content and a redirect to same. As it is I nominate it for deletion. I only stumbled across it while looking at Random Articles. David Henderson 02:58, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Delete.  Christy747 03:02, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, this is at best original research, so WP:NOR, but is largely the musings of someone thinking out loud. -Splash 03:50, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * delete. It may or may not exist, depending on who you ask... come on. If the first line doesn't decide it for you then I'm not sure what will. Simply not encyclopedic. Mmmbeer 03:54, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Nothing of any great value here. Capitalistroadster 06:03, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. In its present form - there is, I think, room for expansion in various ways that would make merging into Sexual_dimorphism_in_humans unnecessary. Dlyons493 09:44, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, nothing to be salvaged here. Pavel Vozenilek 18:23, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and fix it. As written now it sucks, but this is a Wiki.  It should be left to encourage people to expand it into a worthwhile article.  The topic is certainly worth covering; I've gone looking for this very thing on Wikipedia before, and been frustrated by the lack of info. Penelope D 01:49, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge (if any) and Redirect to a split off Sexual dimorphism in humans - I like neither the title nor the current content, but the subject should be covered. -Acjelen 01:58, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text: User talk:69.148.232.115

title: User talk:69.148.232.115


text:
Bill and Coo

Bill and Coo is a 1948 film directed by Dean Riesner, filmed in Trucolor, and conceived to showcase George Burton's trained birds (Burton's Birds).

The 61-minute live-action film stars many types of birds, including budgies (commonly known in the US as parakeets) and lovebirds. The film also features other trained animals, including cats, dogs and a crow. Except for three humans (producer Ken Murray, bird trainer George Burton, and Elizabeth Walters) in a short set-up segment before the opening credits, the film features an all-animal cast. The film was shot on the world's second smallest film set, a miniature village built onto a 15 by tabletop.

The film received an Honorary Academy Award from the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences "In which artistry and patience blended in a novel and entertaining use of the medium of motion pictures."

It was also one of the first films to be released to cinemas on slow-burning cellulose acetate safety film instead of the dangerously flammable nitrate stock used up until then. Initially, projectionists reported film damage due to the acetate base being less 'slippery' than that of nitrate (celluloid) based film. Before long it was found that a thin coating of wax applied along the film edges solved this problem.

The copyright on the film lapsed and is in the public domain.

Plot
The plot of the film is that the birds live in a fictional, peaceful town named Chirpendale. A crow arrives known as the Black Menace. As his name suggests, the Black Menace terrorizes the town. The story follows the adventures of the hero Bill, a cab driver, as he tries to save Coo and the rest of the town's inhabitants from certain destruction.

Cast

 * Burton's Birds as various characters
 * Jimmy the Crow as the Black Menace

title: Bill and Coo


text:
Talk:Loyce Biira Bwambale

Vote for Deletion
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 02:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

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text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Cheese-Eating Bird

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Coffee 10:12, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

The_Cheese-Eating_Bird
nn blog ad Wyss 02:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * delete, not encyclopedic, not notable, vanity, ad. You name it, it's got it. Mmmbeer 03:53, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Article says it all: absolutely no redeeming value whatsoever Boojum 04:45, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not-notable and makes no claim as to being so. --GraemeL (talk) 16:22, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:Bill Weld

Political Positions of Bill Weld
This article needs a "Political Positions" section, similar to the Ron Paul one. In fact, there is even a dedicated Political positions of Ron Paul page.

Should the ancestry section be cited in this article?
Normally, if a section has no references, I add the Unreferenced section tag but I wasn't sure if that's the normal way to handle an ancestry diagram. There is a Weld family article with some cites -- do we normally rely on that to act as the references? Any guidance (or citing) welcome. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 17:35, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Section tagged, suggest removal. AHampton (talk) 04:54, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Protection
This is my opinion but I think this article with need some protection because he is challenging President Trump in the 2020 Republican Primaries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MOADooAH1 (talk • contribs) 03:11, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Maybe at some point. We don't generally protect articles which aren't seeing persistent vandalism. There are enough watchers on this article (including myself) that such will be noticed, and protection imposed at that time. Tarl N. ( discuss ) 04:57, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Bill Weld navbox
A few months ago, user Bill cage created a navbox for weld, but i've noticed it only seems to appear in this article, and in none of the other weld related articles. Why is that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sbob99 (talk • contribs) 14:04, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

 * It could be because nobody added it to those other articles you are thinking of. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:40, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

Portrait change?
I’ve seen comments in other articles about changing a portrait to better represent the subject. On first impression, Weld’s portrait looks relatively bizarre: saturated so as to have a red face and yellow hair. I would welcome someone who knows about these things to find a better one. ConcernedReader101 (talk) 23:45, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bill Weld


text:
Talk:Ellen Sharples

Adding to this article
I have found more information on this artist. One of the problems is that her daughter, Rolinda, is better known, but she does not have her own Wikipedia page. As soon as Ellen's relationship to her famous daughter is established, there can be no doubt that she deserves her own entry, for Ellen taught Rolinda and established a museum in Bristol.Vsanborn (talk) 18:42, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Vote for Deletion
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 03:01, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

I must add that I am glad that the article was saved from deletion. Vsanborn (talk) 13:50, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Ellen Sharples


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Trademark troll

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Coffee 10:20, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Trademark troll
Delete. This must be a neologism and I can find no support for it. It doesn't even seem to have any actual legal standing--someone who has no intent to use or does not use a trademark will lose it. So, unlike patent troll, this is an entirely pointless definition. Mmmbeer 03:02, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect into patent troll or Leo Stoller. Alphax τεχ 07:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Do not merge/redirect into patent troll or Leo Stoller. A trademark is not a patent. "Leo Stoller'" "trademark troll" returns only one Google hit, i.e. the present page . --Edcolins 10:41, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Neologism. Google returns almost no relevant hits for this practice. Unless or until there is an established use of the expression, it would not be "encyclopedic" to keep the article. --Edcolins 10:41, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cremation of Care

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP. Coffee 10:24, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Cremation of Care
Fringe conspiracy theory. Delete. Alternatively, if consensus considers it salvagable, then Merge and redirect with Bohemian Grove. khaosworks (talk • contribs) 03:04, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * List at BJAODN and then delete. Harro5 03:04, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Interesting, despite the fact that there is videotaped footage and the Ceremony is written about in the Bohemian Grove article which has been edited by dozens of respected editors and despite the fact that the ceremony can be verifiable by googling it and finding the dozens of legitimate sources which have written about it, it is referred to as a "Fringe conspriacy theory" and is suggested to be sent to BJAODN? Khaosworks and Harro5, should I tell users: Uncle.bungle, Daniel Quinlan, Maveric149, Ed Poor, Jengod, Khranus, Oliver Crow, Hephaestos, Punarbhava, Hierarchypedia, TheGrza, and Fox News, NBC, Time Magazine and dozens of others that you consider their writings to be BJAODN-worthy and fringe conspiracy theories or shall you do it? -Wiffle0rz 03:11, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, in case anyone is too lazy to even do their research, I included links in the actual page which feature video and pictures. Here is a simple googling of the matter: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Cremation+of+Care%22&btnG=Search . -Wiffle0rz 03:14, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I have removed my delete vote, but still feel the subject of this VfD is a conspiracy theory. "The Cremation of Care is a Druid ceremony practiced at the Bohemian Grove with former US Presidents of the Republican party usually presiding as the main Druid masters." This actually reads as the single stupidest thing I have ever seen! Where's the proof Presidents were involved? Harro5 03:17, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Harro5, I have changed the article to better suit this. Alex Jones has said that it was Presidents presiding over the ceremonies, but since this is only one source I have removed it and said that Presidents merely participated in it, which is something other sources have verified. -Wiffle0rz 03:22, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * More resources. Here is a FAIR article on it: http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:y5flzv0a0dYJ:www.fair.org/index.php%3Fpage%3D1489+%22Walter+Cronkite%22+Bohemian+Grove&hl=en which mentions Walter Cronkite's participation in the event. More: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Walter+Cronkite%22+%22Bohemian+Grove%22&btnG=Search . Information on the Owl idol: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Bohemian+Grove%22+%22owl%22&btnG=Search . The fact that this article was put up for SPEEDY DELETE is something I frankly find appalling, someone decided that this was NONSENSE without obviously doing even the minimalist googling. I seriously think User: Wyss should be reprimanded for this especially if he is an admin and the entire Speedy Delete process should be looked into. -Wiffle0rz 03:19, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Having looked at your contributions to Wikipedia and noted how extreme your views, I see this whole thing as part of your own personal political agenda. Republican presidents getting off over killing babies...? Delete this patent nonsense. Harro5 03:51, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Read it... The ceremony involves the corpse of a dead child, wrapped in a cloak being floated down a makeshift river... with ex US presidents in attendance? Never mind if it Googles. It's patent nonsense and should have been speedied. Wyss 03:21, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Did you actually read the Bohemian Grove article which has been edited by dozens of respected users? Did you look up any sources? Click on any of the links. Whether your opinion may differ on the significance of the event is one thing, but the idea that this is nonsense? Apparently even if something is mentioned in the greater media and can be verified by many people including dozens here at Wikipedia it is still nonsense if it does not coincide with someone predisposed view. I now see how biased and close-minded Wiki is. -Wiffle0rz 03:25, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Futhermore, if you beleive that Presidents do not engage in weird things then I suggest you look up the initation ceremony to the skull n bones fraternity at yale, it is freely available on Yale's library index and reported elsewhere on the net, if you read it you will see both John Kerry and George W. Bush have participated in pseudo-Occult rites. -Wiffle0rz 03:26, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Bohemian Grove may exist, and the gatherings may exist, but this particular interpretation of it is still a fringe conspiracy theory. US Presidents? Animatronic owl statue? Dead child? Orgasming? None of this is mentioned at the main article, nor do I see it FAIR article you cite - the others appear to be usual conspiracy beating suspects. Cite reliable sources for the occult practices that this article claims. Whether or not US Presidents have been known to particpate in other rituals is irrelevant - show that they have in this one. At best, and this is really stretching it, it should be merged with Bohemian Grove. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 03:30, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Bohemian Grove is not up for VfD. When I see text asserting that ex US presidents float the corpses of dead kids down makeshift rivers in a Druid ceremony, I say "speedy." Wyss 03:31, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep, perhaps. While this sounds crazy, I did find this which states "[There are] three major stage events at each Summer Encampment. The first, called 'Cremation of Care,' is a bizarre production on the opening night of every encampment, a ritualistic ceremony involving hundreds of participants. It ends with the symbolic burning in effigy of a wooden skeleton in a coffin that represents the end of the cares of the world."  That seems perhaps more reasonable. Stating that ex-Republican presidents float corpses down a "make-shift" river is totally unacceptable. Mmmbeer 03:44, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep. I spent an hour sifting through many sites, and found a reference to this ceremony that seeems legit (to me, anyway). A author/journalist named Philip Weiss has written for the NYT and Slate. In 1989 he published an article in Spy magazine about the Bohemian Grove. There is a reprint of an article at Conspirancy Archive that describes this ceremony. I don't have access to Spy magazine back issues to check the original publication matches this "reprint", but it looks legit to me. I've not seen anything from Philip Weiss that claims this article was not written by him. Now, closer to the article at hand, his account of the ceremony differs from the article in many respects, but it's my understanding that this alone is not a reason for deletion. Would somebody like to try revamping the article from a NPOV, and citing sources? (Oops, after spending over an hour on this, I forgot to include my sig David Henderson 04:09, 20 August 2005 (UTC))

 * Following all the progress made with the content, I'll change to Keep Merge now, since I'm confident the unacceptable, unsupported content will be revised or qualified . However, it's a huge stretch from an effigy to a child's corpse, that, and Wiffle0rz's contribution history, are what caused me to put up the speedy tag originally. His Child Abuse in Government Schools went up onto VfD at about the same time. Wyss 04:18, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Comment. There is a real ceremony by this name. However, this article stretches credulity at the moment. However, I would vote to keep a decent stub. Capitalistroadster 06:18, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I rewrote the article to include what is more or less verifiable. Sorry didnt include sources although Im sure most of it is available online. Sorry also if the writing sucks, first Wiki article ive done. Oh and this definitely isnt nonsense, the original guy who wrote it just apparently couldnt tell the differene between an actual event and something that is merely a play/production. Although there is some concern to be had over why US Presidents are attending an event where the effigy skeleton of a child is being burned, fake or not :-/. This could go intot he Bohemian Grove article but atm that one just has a quote on this and not an actual description per se so I can see why the article was written. I say keep. -TruthTeller 07:53, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Merge into Bohemian Grove. Please adjust your tinfoil hats before proceeding. Alphax τεχ 08:12, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge into Bohemian Grove. Frankly, this is way too unsupported and tinfoil hat as it stands. JDoorjam 13:04, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Bohemian Grove. Merits inclusion based on the 1977 NYT and other coverage, but not as an article PlainSight 13:44, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and Redirect. I listed two versions of the earlier page at BJAODN. --Matt Yeager 22:00, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep TruthTellers rewrite. Apparently, the effigy is based on the guy of Guy Fawkes Day fame. Otherwise, it should be merged with Bohemian Grove. Capitalistroadster 02:54, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Please see the Talk page of the article for more information on the Walter Cronkite-Owl connection which was removed from the article by an user. -Wiffle0rz 04:48, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Dom Mee

Dom Mee is a British adventurer who attempted in August/September 2005 to cross the North Atlantic Ocean in a 14' (4.26 m) kite-propelled boat, dubbed the Little Murka.

His journey began from St. John's, Canada, on 19 August 2005. The main kite was 107.6 sq. ft. (10 m2.) in area, which gave the boat speeds of up to thirteen knots. The boat was carrying 60 days' worth of provisions. The total length of the journey was to be 2,000 nautical miles (3,700 km). He planned to arrive at Exmouth in Devon southwest England in 35 days, but arduous weather conditions slowed his progress often driving him back, and damaging his communications equipment. After weathering three severe storms, the Kite Boat lost its sea anchor on Sunday 25 September, lashed by 70 km/h winds in seas up to 18 m high. A series of capsizes followed and Dom's cabin filled with water. He spent five hours clinging to the upturned hull before a wave righted the boat. For a further 24 hours, he managed to keep the boat afloat before he was rescued by the Canadian Coast Guard. A year later the Little Murka encrusted with barnacles washed up on the shores of Ireland and Dom's "farewell" video was recovered.

title: Dom Mee


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kantutan

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Coffee 10:22, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Kantutan
dicdef Wyss 03:03, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Provisional keep. Looking through the Google summaries and following a few of the links (don't do this at work!) would appear to suggest that, actually, it might be a fetish (or similar) to do with Filipino women. There are at least a few sites that pick up the term. So I would hazard a guess that someone who can read more of the sites than I can might be able to extract an article from this. If this proves not to be possible toward the end of the VfD, I'll change my mind. -Splash 03:55, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I don't know how you can expand this into an article --Dysepsion 04:17, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete unless expanded from dicdef to article. MCB 06:40, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. It looks to me that this is just a Filipino word that describes acts that are already covered here.  This is an English language encyclopedia and I don't think we want to start adding non-English equivalents of common terms unless there is some evidence that the word is also widely adopted by English speakers. -- DS1953 06:43, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete --Agamemnon2 11:08, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:Private school

Requested move 30 November 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. It seems to be apparent that "private school" is the most widely understood term for this kind of school. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 20:17, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Independent school → Private school – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Both were separate articles until they were merged (see Talk:Independent_school/Archive_1), but the less common name was chosen. It should be moved to the more common name. More than five times more common in google scholar results since 2000. See also ngrams. Vpab15 (talk) 17:05, 30 November 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 18:44, 8 December 2022 (UTC) — Relisted.  P.I. Ellsworth  ,  ed.  put'r there 14:42, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

This request has been reopened and relisted this date as the result of a discussion on my talk page.  P.I. Ellsworth  , ed.  put'r there 14:42, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

 No consensus. See below no strong agreement to rename this article. As is usual with no-consensus outcomes, editors can strengthen their arguments, discover new ones, and try again in a few months to garner consensus for this name change. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone stay healthy!  P.I. Ellsworth  , ed.  put'r there 17:38, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

 * Support Rreagan007 (talk) 18:28, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment, to preempt any potential WP:RETAIN opposition: the term private school is widely used in the UK . Both terms are used as synonyms. A government website also claims both names are equivalent: Private schools (also known as ‘independent schools’) charge fees to attend instead of being funded by the government. . Vpab15 (talk) 19:04, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per MOS:RETAIN. @Vpab15 you are forgetting the UK's definition of a Public school, which are also examples of independent schools. The term is an umbrella one and more inclusive. YorkshireExpat (talk) 20:58, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, for some reason in the UK "public school" refers to a kind of private school. That is extremely confusing. However, not sure how that is relevant to this move request. Could you please elaborate? Vpab15 (talk) 21:10, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, we were here first ;). Both public schools and private schools can be classed as independent schools, so better to use the title with the widest scope. YorkshireExpat (talk) 19:23, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Private school and independent school are just two names for the same thing in the UK per links above. Also according to the Independent Schools Council's website: Private schools (also known as 'independent schools') . Vpab15 (talk) 17:35, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * And yet it's called the Independent Schools Council. All private schools are independent schools, yet not all independent schools are private schools. Why change? YorkshireExpat (talk) 19:36, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * not all independent schools are private schools. The references I provided say they are the same. Vpab15 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Some terminology here. Read this bit, which agrees with the way the article is already written: All independent schools are private schools, and these terms are often used interchangeably but technically, independent schools are all overseen by a board of governors or trustees, whilst other private schools may be run by their owner with no governing body.. A reference here that differentiates private schools from public schools (in the UK). Also explains prep schools, which are private but have a different name, but are also independent. Independent is an umbrella term. MOS:RETAIN and, also I think, MOS:ENGVAR both apply here. YorkshireExpat (talk) 22:24, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
 * So it seems some UK sources do not make any difference between the two terms and some consider independent schools a type of private school. In that case, we should choose "private school", since that is the broad term the best matches the scope of the articles. Also, per MOS:COMMONALITY, we should use the more common term considering other countries. That is clearly "private school". Vpab15 (talk) 12:23, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Please read the quote again: All independent schools are private schools, and these terms are often used interchangeably but technically, independent schools are all overseen by a board of governors or trustees, whilst other private schools may be run by their owner with no governing body. Indeed, the article itself says in the lead that there is a difference in British English, so once again, MOS:RETAIN and MOS:ENGVAR both clearly apply. The one thing that all the types of school we have discussed here, and that the article discusses, is that they are independent, and therefore the current title remains the best choice. YorkshireExpat (talk) 18:24, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You said better to use the title with the widest scope. You also said independent schools are all overseen by a board of governors or trustees, whilst other private schools may be run by their owner with no governing (emphasis mine). So it seems "private school" has the widest scope, doesn't it? I am struggling a bit to understand your opposition. Vpab15 (talk) 12:42, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * So these types of schools CAN ALL BE DESCRIBED as 'independent' in the sense of being independent from Government, whereas due to various technicalities and historical oddities, some would describe themselves as either being public, private, or independent. Therefore the 'independent' description has the widest scope, hence the MOS:RETAIN argument. Some publications consider all UK 'private' schools to be public. This also leads me towards and WP:ENGVAR argument. You simply are not considering British English in your argument. YorkshireExpat (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * "Private school" is a widely used term in British English per your own links (and mine). I don't think various technicalities and historical oddities is a strong enough reason to ignore WP:COMMONNAME. Vpab15 (talk) 18:40, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * It may be widely used, but is not universal, and therefore not a common name. 'Independent' is also widely used (as evidenced by the references). You seem to be ignoring MOS:RETAIN and MOS:ENGVAR. YorkshireExpat (talk) 18:47, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

 * Support per COMMONNAME. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ortizesp (talk • contribs) 19:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment. In the UK, all public schools are independent schools, but not all independent schools by a long chalk are public schools. Private school and independent school, however, are technically synonymous, although the former today tends to refer only to smaller schools rather than the larger public schools. When I was at public school in the distant past, the term "independent school" was rarely heard and public schools were happy to (somewhat confusingly, admittedly, but confusing those not in our tribe is what we British excel at; see British Army other ranks rank insignia) also describe themselves as private schools. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:06, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 * From a British English point of view, there seems little good reason to change the article name and a couple of middlingly decent reasons to leave it alone. I might also point out that other major English variants appear to commonly use 'independent'. It has always seemed to me (as a state (i.e. public ;)) school alumnus) that public schools described themselves as such to make themselves appear just a little more elite. It is all very confusing. And let's not even get started on Grammar schools. YorkshireExpat (talk) 21:41, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Shwcz (talk) 16:01, 17 December 2022 (UTC) — is a confirmed sock puppet of.
 * Oppose In Australia, independent school is the formal name for non-government schools, it includes private schools, but it can also include Catholic schools or other religious schools. Vic Park (talk) 12:27, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Support - the WP:COMMONNAME seems fairly clear, and as noted, in the UK the terms "independent school" and "private school" are used in sources pretty much interchangeably (even "public school" can refer to the same thing too). — Amakuru (talk) 13:55, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Amakuru and what about Australian English, as noted in the comment above yours? YorkshireExpat (talk) 17:45, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose:
 * In Australia: As per the comments above and this article from Australian ABC News makes its clear: The term "private school" is largely meaningless. It is not used in this country by any government or formal educational organisations. It is commonly, and incorrectly, used to describe non-government schools, including Independent and Catholic system schools. But these schools are certainly not "private" in the sense of being for-profit businesses. The article, and other sites, go on to explain that a non-privilidged community school can be described as an independent school, yet probably wouldn't meet most reader's understanding if the term private school is used. In Australia, a church-run school would be considered independent, and unlikely to be considered private.
 * In Canada: There is a distinction between independent schools and private schools, defined by their governance, as per this article. Independent schools are not ‘private’ schools, though they are often referred to that way. The key difference is that private schools can be for profit and independent schools are not. Independent schools have charitable status and donations can be eligible for tax receipts. Private schools are also independent in that they are not part of the public school system, but are for profit and may come in many different varieties of management structure.
 * In the US: This article and also here opine that there are significant differences between independent and private schools, most notably surrounding governance. This excerpt from the Utah Office of Education is interesting in how it defines a private school: A school that is controlled by an individual or agency other than a governmental entity, which is usually supported primarily by other than public funds, and the operation of whose program rests with someone other than publicly elected or appointed officials. Hence, in the US, a church-run school would be considered private, but not independent.
 * In the UK: The body representing independent/private schools is called the Independent Schools Council and the UK Government regulatory is the Independent Schools Inspectorate. There is no Private Schools Council or Private Schools Inspectorate (my emphasis). So the term private is not used at an "industry" or "regulatory" level.
 * In summary: The term private school has a different meaning in North America than in UK/Australian settings, principally related to the school's governance structure. In Australia, the term private school is used to incorrectly refer to the non-public sector. In the UK, there are complications around public schools that are non-government schools, and may be either private or independent. In addition to this there are government schools, some of which are incorrectly called public schools. Rangasyd (talk) 09:38, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Rangasyd solid analysis. Also, the situation in South Africa and New Zealand appears to be similar to that in Australia. YorkshireExpat (talk) 10:14, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Per WP:OFFICIAL, we usually go with common names, not official ones. From all the links above, it is clear "private school" is a widely used term in those countries. Also, no conflict of interest whatsoever about Colette Colman, the executive director of the Independent Schools Council of Australia criticising the term "private school" and saying it is "meaningless", saying there are mostly not used by the privileged or elite and basically asking for public funding for private schools. An opinion piece doesn't count as a reliable source in this topic. Vpab15 (talk) 10:35, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Vpab15, it is clear from all the evidence presented that both terms are widely used (hence MOS:RETAIN), but in some cases 'private school' is incorrectly applied. The scope of the article clearly covers those type of schools that @Rangasyd discusses, therefore to use the term 'private school' would be incorrect. As it appears that the main opposition is based around English variants other than American English, MOS:ENGVAR applies.
 * If anything your arguments suggest to me that 'Private school' should be split out as a different page, but with a section in this article, as private schools are also independent schools. YorkshireExpat (talk) 12:27, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * MOS:RETAIN doesn't apply here, since "private school" is used pretty much in all varieties of English. So whatever the variety of English currently used in the article (let's say British English), changing "independent school" to "private school" will preserve it. You keep repeating that some independent schools are not private school, but you have provided sources that say All independent schools are private schools, so you are actually contradicting yourself. Vpab15 (talk) 13:08, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You're cherry-picking by not giving the second half of the quote, which contradicts the first half, plus it's only one source, and 'pretty much' is not 'all'. Also, the article does not specify an English variant, and talks about the situation across the Anglosphere.
 * Why is a new article specifically on Private schools not a reasonable compromise? YorkshireExpat (talk) 13:54, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is scope to have two articles about the same topic. The differences are not enough to warrant it in my opinion. By the way, the article is not only about the Anglosphere, it is about private education and private schools in general across the world. This is a bit off-topic, but I think the article dwells too much on the terms, rather than the topic itself. There is way too much "refers to" and "is a term for", which we should avoid per WP:ISATERMFOR. Vpab15 (talk) 14:20, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I do agree that it would need a rewrite if renamed, mainly to remove the references to schools that are independent, but not private. YorkshireExpat (talk) 21:03, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Canadian here. You seem to have stumbled upon one lobby group's idiosyncratic definition of private school, not a definition in wide use in the Canadian literature or in popular usage. In fact, that page from the Canadian Association of Independent Schools from which you quoted seems to contradicts itself, saying in one place that "private schools can be for profit and independent schools are not", which would suggest that the term private school is inclusive of independent schools, and in another that "private schools are ... for profit [emphasis added]". Graham (talk) 23:05, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

 * Support - Per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:ASTONISH, and I frankly just find the objections to be mostly edge cases and/or over-technicality about language. The goal is to be useful, not perfectly precise. Garnet Moss (talk) 20:30, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Garnet Moss calling the rest of the Anglosphere an edge case is maybe a little harsh. YorkshireExpat (talk) 20:43, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Reading user Rangasyd's examples against using "Private School", their American counter-citation is completely contrived, "Private School" is absolutely the common parlance here. Their Canadian counter-citation literally states that "private school" is the primary colloquial term used to describe them. Their Australian and UK counter-citations simply say that it's not a meaningful technical term, but imply that it is nevertheless widely used. The confusion over "Public School" is more notable, because in British and American English they mean very different things, but "Private School" is colloquially understood across the Anglosphere to refer to non-state schools, and differ only in the details (profit/nonprofit, religious/secular, etc.) Garnet Moss (talk) 21:03, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
 * But it still stands that the article covers schools that are not 'private schools' whether or not they are referred to as such. There is a Venn diagram here, where 'independent schools' are the superset containing 'private schools', and, as written, this article discusses the superset. Also, your argument does not adequately address the situation in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India, or other English speaking countries that are not the USA or the UK. Even if 'private school' were the common name (which I would still argue against) and this article were to be renamed, a lot of information would have to be removed as it is not about 'private schools'. I think the best solution, and a compromise, is a split, where another article named 'Private school' is created, and information taken from here to populate that, but that would require overruling the previous merge decision. I would argue that there are enough sources referring to both, and the differences, to merit that inclusion.
 * In response to the Ngrams, I am coming to the conclusion that this is not useful when discussing moves involving WP:ENGVAR. It seems biased towards American sources, even when British English is selected. YorkshireExpat (talk) 17:33, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It seems biased towards American sources, even when British English is selected. What leads you to that conclusion? Graham (talk) 05:53, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Experience of moves on here where WP:ENGVAR is relevant. See Talk:Grey as an example. Tricky for me to prove anything of course, but 'gray' is really not widely used in the UK. YorkshireExpat (talk) 07:09, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Comment As if to highlight the point that this is not an ENGVAR issue, there's an article in the Guardian this very day, predominantly using the term "private school". There are plenty of uses in Australian sources too, e.g. This title arose as a result of a merge a few years ago, which chose a title which is much less common worldwide, and without a strong consensus. There's very little reason to keep this present title.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:11, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Please explain to me how the different understanding of 'public school' in the US and the UK is not an WP:ENGVAR consideration. YorkshireExpat (talk) 19:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Because this article, in case you missed it, is about private schools. The fact that "a rubber" means something different to Americans as to Brits doesn't mean that we need to move pencil. This article's title (current and proposed) is unambiguous. Red   Slash  23:18, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * @Red Slash please read this and, indeed, the first paragraph of the article you are commenting on. YorkshireExpat (talk) 17:20, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. It's not an ENGVAR issue, as much as some confused and well-meaning folks seem to think it is. Independent schools are private schools. Private schools are independent schools. "Private" is never a synonym for "for-profit"; it quite literally means "independent from the government, not belonging to the public". So we might as well choose the more WP:COMMONNAME. This proposed title is also more WP:CONCISE. Red   Slash  23:18, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Private school


text:
Talk:Rescue (a cappella group)

Vote for Deletion
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 03:04, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rescue (a cappella group)