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Alexander Raven Thomson

Alexander Raven Thomson (3 December 1899 – 30 October 1955), usually referred to as Raven, was a Scottish politician and philosopher. He joined the British Union of Fascists in 1933 and remained a follower of Oswald Mosley for the rest of his life. Thomson was considered to be the party's chief ideologue and has been described as the "Alfred Rosenberg of British fascism".

Early life
Born in Edinburgh, Thomson came from a family long prominent in Scottish public life and was the grandson of the architect Alexander Thomson. Thomson was educated in universities in his homeland, the United States and briefly Heidelberg University in Germany and studied mechanical engineering, science and philosophy. In 1926, he became a partner in an engineering firm in London specialising in the manufacture of silver paper, a process that he had learned in Germany. During his studies in Germany, Thomson met and married Lisbeth, the daughter of the X-ray pioneer Wilhelm Conrad Röntgen. They would go on to have three children together; Lisbeth already had a daughter from a previous relationship, and Thomson also had a long-term mistress, Olive Burdett.

Thomson's political career began by joining the Communist Party of Great Britain, but his membership did not last long since he rejected notions of historical materialism and moved more towards corporatism. Thomson became a leading authority on the works of Oswald Spengler and in 1932 published the book Civilization as Divine Superman: A Superorganic Philosophy of History, which rejected Spengler's theories about the decline of civilisation and argued that it could be avoided by the rejection of capitalism and its replacement with collectivism.

In that conviction he was influenced by Maurice Maeterlinck, who had written of "insect communities" in which a communal spirit was shared by all members of a "hive". The book also marked his drift towards a fascistic outlook.

British Union of Fascists
He joined the British Union of Fascists in 1933 and soon rose to the post of Director of Policy. There, he became the leading ideological light in the party and a close associate of Oswald Mosley and Neil Francis Hawkins. In that position, he produced his seminal work The Corporate State (March 1935, republished as The Coming Corporate State in January 1937) in which he set out the vision of a BUF government in Britain. Thomson envisaged the formation of 20 corporations, each controlling a specific sector of the economy. The corporations would be further divided up to cover each individual industry and would also feed into a National Corporation, which would effectively form the government. Corporations would have equal representation for employers, workers and consumers, with elections to the corporations taking the place of existing political activity. In 1935, he was sent to his native Scotland on a speaking tour designed to present the fascist message, but most of his engagements were disrupted by communist hecklers, including one at Aberdeen in which an extended chorus of The Internationale from the crowd effectively silenced the BUF speakers.

Thomson became a leading figure in the BUF and in 1937 represented the party in municipal elections in Bethnal Green (SW). He won 23.17% of the votes and finished ahead of the Liberal candidates. Although he was not elected, the result marked a good total for the BUF. His status in the party now assured, Thomson became editor of the party weekly, Action, in 1939.

An important figure in the BUF, he served for a time as Mosley's representative to Germany, a role in which he was closely watched by MI5. He shared with the Nazis a strong anti-Semitism and was generally noted as an admirer of Nazi Germany. He was part of BUF delegation that attended the 1933 Nuremberg Rally. He made a total of five extended trips to Nazi Germany. Despite being one of the public faces of the BUF, he had actually been interviewed by The Jewish Chronicle in 1934 and had told the newspaper that the group had no specific enmity towards the Jews. Thomson also had loose connections to hardline Revisionist Zionism activist Wolfgang von Weisl, but they were curtailed after von Weisl's superior, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, told him to break off relations.

Mosley admired Thomson for his intellect and would later describe him as an "honest man and devoted patriot" but was also known to criticise him privately as something of a "yes-man". In 1937, Thomson wrote that the British left had enforced "specifically Anglo-Saxon democratic methods of parliamentary governance" upon Ireland to which it was "entirely foreign and distasteful". Thomson also believed that a United Ireland would occur under fascism, an ideology that was less foreign to the "native Celtic culture".

After the outbreak of war, Thomson devised a plan to attack the Nordic League as "Nazi traitors" in the hope of establishing the BUF's patriotic credentials, but that came to nothing and actually ran alongside attempts by Francis Hawkins to establish BUF control over the League. Along with most of the other leading members of the BUF, Thomson was detained under Defence Regulation 18B in May 1940 and interned for much of the Second World War. He spent his entire jail spell in Brixton Prison, rather than the prison camp on the Isle of Man, which was generally more favourable, until his release in 1944. Thomson reacted badly to his spell in detention and suffered a nervous breakdown during his incarceration. He was released after he had been moved to a camp on the Isle of Man in September 1944.

Union Movement
After his release Thomson set up a number of book clubs across Britain to ensure the continuing spread of Mosley's ideas. The book clubs served as planning meetings for the future of Mosleyite politics after the war. He also led the Union of British Freemen, a group he set up with the fellow ex-BUF member Victor Burgess in 1944 as an attempt to bring together former BUF members. After the war, Thomson travelled regularly to Ireland to meet Mosley and to discuss political development. Eager to expand the base of operations of fascism in Britain he also sought unsuccessfully to forge alliances with the proto-environmentalist Rural Reconstruction Association through the leading member Jorian Jenks, a former BUF activist, as well as individuals on the fringes of Welsh nationalism.

He joined the Union Movement on its foundation in 1948 and became a leading figure in the new party as both general secretary and the editor of the UM newspaper Union. Playing a leading role in the development of the ideology of the UM, Thomson initially supported Europe a Nation enthusiastically, but soon tired of the esoteric policy and in 1950 organised a brief and even more unsuccessful return to prewar policy. He then came to advocate a "left-wing fascist" approach and argued that the UM should target the working class for support with anticapitalist rhetoric.

As well as his important position within the UM domestically, Thomson was also a central figure in the party's international links. Thomson was sent to Spain in 1949 to try to build up support for Mosley in the country, but the trip was somewhat unsuccessful as he failed to impress the falangists and had to contend with the negative words of former BUF member Angus Macnab, who had grown to loathe Mosley.

Later, Thomson was central in liaising with the New European Order, a group with which Mosley had no official contact with because of his support for the European Social Movement. Thomson's international reputation grew further in 1952 when he was appointed to the editorial board of the prestigious Nation Europa magazine. He also became known as the publisher of Frederick J. Veale's Advance to Barbarism, one of the early pieces of Second World War historical revisionism and contributed to The European, a magazine edited by Diana Mosley.

Thomson continued to serve as leading UM figure until his death in 1955 from cancer. Thomson, who had lived most of his life in the East End of London, had his funeral service at St Columba's Church, Shoreditch before he was cremated.

title: Alexander Raven Thomson


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Rescue of Giuliana Sgrena

On 4 March 2005, the Italian military secret service, SISMI, conducted a covert operation to rescue Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena from kidnappers in Iraq. After the successful retrieval of Sgrena, the car with her and two secret agents came under friendly fire by US Army troops along the Baghdad airport road; secret agent Nicola Calipari was killed by US Army Specialist Mario Lozano. The incident created tension between the two countries, and arguably increased the Italian public's hostility towards the United States.

Background
Giuliana Sgrena had been kidnapped a month earlier, on 4 February, while working as a non-embedded journalist in Iraq for the Italian communist newspaper Il Manifesto. Some have argued she was overconfident because she thought kidnappers would only target pro-American journalists, but others counter she was fully aware of the risks.

Sgrena's rescue
Sgrena was rescued in circumstances yet unclear by Italian secret-service agents from SISMI, the Italian Military Intelligence service, on 4 March 2005. One of the agents was Nicola Calipari, the other was Andrea Carpani. One unconfirmed allegation is that the Italian government paid a ransom in the range of millions of US dollars. The agents and Sgrena left by car, heading for Baghdad International Airport. The route from downtown Baghdad to the airport has been widely described as the most dangerous road in Iraq.

The shooting of the car
At around 20:55, the car Sgrena was riding in was fired upon by U.S. troops while on the way to the airport. Nicola Calipari, who had negotiated her release, was killed while allegedly protecting Giuliana Sgrena with his body. Giuliana Sgrena was hit in the shoulder.

Autopsy of Calipari's body allegedly showed that he was struck by a single bullet in the temple. Sgrena and Carpani were wounded. Sgrena was treated by US Army medics on the scene and medivaced to a US Army field hospital shortly after the incident. US Army medics also treated the injured officer on the scene, but he refused a medical evacuation for further assistance. Sgrena underwent surgery to extract shrapnel from her shoulder. The US military did not disclose their whereabouts later. Sgrena arrived in Rome a day after the fatal incident.

Reactions
The incident prompted criticism from Italian government officials:

 * The Italian Prime Minister at the time, Silvio Berlusconi, said: "I believe we must have an explanation for such a serious incident, for which someone must take the responsibility." Berlusconi had long been a close ally of George W. Bush. Having summoned the US ambassador to Italy, he declared "It is a pity. This was a joyful moment which made all our compatriots happy, which has been transformed into profound pain by the death of a person who behaved so bravely."
 * Roberto Calderoli, the Italian Minister of Reforms, stated that several incidents had already occurred in the liberation of Giuliana Sgrena, the shooting being only the last of them.
 * Mirko Tremaglia, Italian undersecretary for Foreign Affairs, said to the Italian press agency ANSA: "The Americans must be firmly reminded to respect human and civil rules."
 * Gianni Alemanno, the minister of Agriculture, said: "We want the culprits to be punished, and we demand an explanation from the Americans." He added "We are faithful allies, but we must not let anyone think that we are subordinates."
 * Carlo Giovanardi, Minister for the Relations with the Parliament, said he did not believe one word of the version presented by the US Army.

In response, White House press secretary Scott McClellan offered condolences stating that "we regret the loss of life" and added that "details are still unclear", and that an investigation would be conducted.

Leading figures of the Italian left-wing opposition renewed criticism of Italy's participation in the occupation of Iraq, also with support from some members of the right-wing ruling coalition:
 * Romano Prodi, future Prime Minister and at the time leader of Italy's opposition coalition, stated "57 millions Italians united in waiting for Giuliana Sgrena's liberation have a right to know what happened."
 * Fausto Bertinotti, leader of the Communist Refoundation Party, said that "After the extremely grave fact of Nicola Calipari's death, pulling [Italian] troops out of Iraq is an act of public sanity."
 * Piero Fassino, leader of the Democrats of the Left, said that "It's not fate that pulls the trigger of a machine gun."
 * Raffaele Costa, member of Parliament in Forza Italia, said on 6 March that the Parliament, due to debate an extension to the mission on 14 March, should set a clear date for withdrawal.

Tens of thousands of Italian citizens paid their respects to Calipari before the state funeral on March 8, 2005, at Santa Maria degli Angeli e dei Martiri in Rome.

The resulting strain on the political relationship between Italy and the United States is the most significant since the Cavalese cable car disaster of 1998. The case, which saw a hostage being released unharmed by Iraqi kidnappers and almost killed by American troops, strengthened the already widespread opposition to the presence of Italian troops in Iraq.

Accounts of the incident
Due to the conditions in which the facts unraveled, and due to a mutually suspicious attitude of some of the involved parties, widely different accounts of the incident have been proposed.

Speculations on assassination attempt
On 6 March, Sgrena claimed that she might have been deliberately targeted, a consequence of the United States' disapproval of the means of her liberation. "The fact is that they do everything to prevent the adoption of this practice to save the lives of people held hostages, everybody knows that. So I do not see why I should rule out that I could have been the target", she told Sky TG24. The White House responded to this, denying that US troops would specifically target civilians, and stating that the zone is "a dangerous road, and it is a combat zone that our coalition forces are in. Often, they have to make split-second decisions to protect their own security". Pier Scolari said "I hope the Italian government does something because either this was an ambush, as I think, or we are dealing with imbeciles or terrorized kids who shoot at anyone".

American version

According to initial statements from a senior U.S. military official, the car was traveling at speeds of more than 150 km/h (about 100 mph). He said that troops manning the checkpoint also claimed that car almost lost control several times before the shooting as the car hydroplaned through large puddles.

In the first few days following the incident, US spokesmen said that the Italian vehicle had been fired upon when it approached U.S. Checkpoint 504 (Camp Victory) at excessive speed, and did not slow down or stop after US troops used hand gestures, flashing lights and fired warning shots. The U.S. troops were then allegedly forced to disable the vehicle by firing into the engine block. Checkpoint 504 is a permanent roadblock.

Within the first week after the incident the version of events acknowledged by US spokesmen was significantly modified. In the second version of events, extra security patrols had recently been added to the airport route because a "senior diplomatic VIP" was going to use the road that evening; the shooting occurred at a temporary "blocking position" (not a "checkpoint"). The "senior diplomatic VIP" was later acknowledged to have been Ambassador John Negroponte, who was unable to have used helicopter transport due to bad weather.

Italian version
This version of the events contrasts markedly with a version subsequently referred to the Italian Parliament by the minister of foreign affairs Gianfranco Fini.

Speaking in the Camera dei Deputati on 8 March 2005, Fini stated that there had been no roadblock, that no warning was given, that the car "was not over 40 km/h, and was illuminated from inside to facilitate control and allow phone calls to be made", that "[w]hen a strong source of light, like a projector, was turned on a few tens of meters from the car, it slowed down until it was almost stopped, and the shooting began", and that Calipari, described as one of Italy's most experienced intelligence agents with a history of successful operations in Iraq, not only had previously made "all necessary contacts" with US authorities in Baghdad and had obtained all the necessary clearances, but had also spoken to US and Italian authorities from his mobile phone just minutes before the attack.

Fini asserted that photographs taken of the car established that it was not shot at from the front (or into the engine block), as one would expect if it were approaching a checkpoint, but rather that it was shot at from the right side, with the bullets entering through that side. Fini's version of the events was also based on the testimony of a second Italian intelligence agent, who was driving the car.

He also said that the theory of a deliberate attack against Sgrena was "totally unfounded;" he finally repeated his wish that Calipari's death would not induce "unnecessary anti-US feelings" in the Italian public opinion.

American rebuttal

The Italian version in contrast with the statements of General George Casey, commander of US forces in Iraq, who said that the Italian government had not given the US advance warning about the convoy carrying Ms Sgrena. "I personally do not have any indication of that, even on a preliminary basis", General Casey said.

General George Casey's statements are backed by General Mario Marioli, Italy's top military commander in Iraq. Marioli informed US officials that Calipari and the other Italian officer were there, but gave no information about the specifics of Calipari's operation. However, the Italian investigators' report, released 2 May 2005, claims that the American authorities were informed that Calipari was due to return to the Baghdad airport with a hostage on the night of the shooting.

Giuliana Sgrena's version of the events also only mentions the contact between Calipari and the Italian authorities, but says nothing about any contact with the American authorities whilst she was with him. US forces confiscated cell and satellite phones from the car's occupants in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, and according to the US Army's official report, gave them back before the Italians were taken from the scene. The official report also notes that "both HMMWVs involved in the blocking position were moved to transport Ms Sgrena to the Combat Support Hospital in the International Zone. Further, the scene was not deemed to be a crime scene, and efforts were made to clear the roadway." The report further concluded that the vehicle was shot while it was traveling towards the road block, not from a point perpendicular to the road, as Gianfranco Fini has insisted.

Military reports
Two military reports were produced, one by the US Army and one by the Italian government.

Release of classified information in US report
The Multinational Force In Iraq released an official report that was posted on its website. Classified information (such as the name of the other Sismi agent, the names of the soldiers involved, and coalition troop movements) in the report was redacted but the report was accidentally published in a form that allowed the redacted information to be easily retrieved.

The report was published in the PDF file format, and the classified sentences were covered by a black bar. However, the text below it had not been erased, and was present in the file. A copy-and-paste from the PDF reader to a word processor was sufficient to make the lines reappear.

The possibility of reading the complete report was quickly discovered by a Greek exchange student in Bologna, who preferred to maintain anonymous, and by Gianluca Neri, who posted the versions on his blog, Macchianera. There has been some argument about who was first out, but as Neri himself wrote, it was such a simple task that more people could well have noticed in a short time independently of each other.

Content of the US report
The US report cleared the soldiers of the 69th Infantry of any wrongdoing, claiming the unit followed proper procedures and defending the decision by one soldier, Spc. Mario Lozano, to open fire after flashing a light and firing warning shots.

The report indicated that the soldiers had already turned away about 15–30 cars before the incident, and were alert because of two warnings (BOLOs, Be On LookOut) about two possible VBIEDs (Vehicle-Borne Improvised Explosive Device), a black and a white car. The blocking position had been maintained for longer time than planned due to faulty communications procedure, which was caused by a failure of the VOIP system used by US Army; whereas FM was available, it was not used.

The spotlight and the green laser used by the US soldiers had proven effective at halting and making the previous cars turn around. Specialist Mario Lozano had first maneuvered the spotlight, and then switched to the machine gun to shoot the Italian's vehicle.

The car was estimated to travel at 50 mi/h, and it did not brake until fired upon. Eleven rounds were shot on the car, of which five hit the front.

A series of unrelated events were registered as contributing to the tragedy:
 * The travel of ambassador Negroponte by car instead of by helicopter, because of bad weather;
 * Communications failure between the blocking point and their headquarters;
 * The daily delay of Ms Sgrena's rescue for several days;
 * The Italians were not aware of the roadblock;
 * The soldiers were not aware of the arrival of the Italians.

The US report did note that the unit involved in the incident had received inadequate training on how to deploy armored vehicles in blocking position before a roadblock before leaving for Iraq, and for only 10 days with another unit once it arrived.

Only one US officer, Captain Green, knew of the fact that Ms. Sgrena was being rescued, after Italian General Mario Marioli mentioned it to him. However, since Marioli added "it is best if no one knows", Green took it as an order not to pass the information on to others.

Italian report
A report by the Italian government was published by 2 May. The Italian investigators disagreed on the subjects of the speed of the car, the signaling (or lack of it) before the Americans opened fire, and the question of whether the Americans were aware of Calipari's presence and activities in Baghdad. The Italian report also noted that the Italian investigators claim that "senior US officers who arrived on the scene of the shooting had criticized the checkpoint for being poorly illuminated, inadequately signaled and badly positioned."

The Italians point that, whereas the US forces were unaware of Calipari's objectives, they were surely aware of his presence, as Calipari and Carpani were given ID badges and obtained sleeping quarters at Camp Victory. Furthermore, they claimed that the knowledge of the operation could in no way have avoided the incident, since there was no predetermined itinerary, due to the mission's nature.

It was pointed out that the officer responsible for the blocking point had not properly laid out signs and obstacles, even if the blocking point duty, after a while, clearly would not have been a short one. This left the proper functioning of the blocking point entirely on the shoulders of the two gunners, who already had with other duties, as operating the spotlight. The Americans had claimed that, since such signs are usually in Arabic and English, they would have been useless to the Italians because they would not have understood them; the Italian report considers these allegations "mildly put absurd", because words like "STOP" and "DANGER" are internationally recognized. In fact, stop signs on Italian roads have "STOP", as in English, written on them, and are identical to those used in the United States.

The "alert line" and the "warning line" were all at smaller distances that prescribed practice; the "stop line" was absent altogether. All these were approximately known to the soldiers, but there was no sign for incoming vehicles. In particular, the Alert line was just 120 m from the first military vehicle, instead of the prescribed 200–400 m. This, combined with the lack of signalling, would have forced the gunners to be alert and not get distracted for a single second throughout the 80-minute-long mission.

The only signals used were the spotlight and the green laser. The Italian report indicates that they both rely on the quick reactions of the crew operating them, and the laser is especially difficult to point on a moving target in a short time. A distraction on the gunner's side would easily transform a vehicle in a threat to be stopped by force.

The Italian report also noted the fact that the soldiers who manned the checkpoint had placed no signs or traffic cones on the roadway indicating the presence of a checkpoint ahead, despite the fact that they were positioned around a nearly 90 degree bend in the road, which obscured the checkpoint from approaching cars: "No signs warning traffic of the presence of a US roadblock—one of the most basic precautionary measures. One of the most important rules was not respected by the soldiers manning the checkpoint."

The report also indicated that the idea behind the blocking point was inherently dangerous, as approaching vehicles were forced to turn around on a one-way highway.

The Italian investigators also faulted the US soldiers for not stringing a concertina wire barrier which could have stopped the car before reaching the roadblock, but the soldiers "didn't like to use concertina wire at night because of the danger posed by cars getting tangled up in it and requiring assistance."

Conversely, the US Army's report downplayed the absence of signs or other indicators of the roadblock's presence, arguing that they were not effective at night. However, the US Army report indicated that the roadblock unit reportedly had no signs to deploy, since at the time of "the 69th's signs—reading—'Stop or you will be shot!' were still in the shop, awaiting a technician to cover up the 'or you will be shot' phrase, deemed offensive, with tape." It is unclear whether these signs would have been used had they been available.

The Italian report specifically accuses the US forces of tampering with the crime scene, in an attempt to make a proper investigation impossible. Also, it pointed that estimates of the speed of Sgrena's car varied from 50 mi/h to 80 mi/h, a strangely spread measurement considering that two soldiers were experienced policemen.

The Italian report also claimed that only three seconds elapsed between the warning signals from the mobile checkpoint and the time when the soldiers opened fire. They add that, despite the fact that the car was only travelling at 40 to 50 km/h, this three-second interval did not give the driver enough time to stop the car.

Sgrena's account
"The shooting was not justified by the speed of the vehicle", said Giuliana Sgrena to the Italian news agency Ansa. "Our vehicle rode a normal speed which should not have induced misunderstanding", she told Il Manifesto. "It was not a checkpoint, but a patrol that fired upon us, right after having illuminated us with a projector", according to Giuliana Sgrena. The Italian agent driving the car also denied that the car was traveling at an excessive speed and refused to stop at a checkpoint: "We were driving normally. It was a patrol, in an armoured vehicle, that fired without warning."

In English-language press, claims appeared about Sgrena claiming that US soldiers and a US tank had fired on the vehicle 300 to 400 times. The 300 to 400 figure was given by Sgrena's companion in Italy, Pier Scolari, who had only talked with her on the phone. The Italian word for "tank", carro armato, did not appear in most of the Italian accounts; the term "tank" may be an erroneous translation of blindato, which means "armoured vehicle" or a HMMWV.

A fellow journalist at Il Manifesto claimed that the theory that this was murder attempt by the US forces in order to discourage further hostage-rescue attempts could not be dismissed out of hand. Sgrena claimed that her kidnappers, just before releasing her, had warned her that the American forces would be a danger to her.

Independent reporter Naomi Klein, in an interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now (Friday, March 25, 2005), indicated firstly that Giuliana Sgrena's injuries were too severe for her to speak, since she still had fluid in her lungs from her gunshot injuries.

Sgrena told Klein that her car was not traveling on a public road, but rather on a secured road reserved for officials, connecting the green zone directly to the airport. By virtue of being on that road, Sgrena also indicated that she must have already passed through checkpoints to enter the green zone from whence the road emerged, and that her car was driving slowly with its lights on to make it more visible and identifiable. Klein indicated that Sgrena believes that US soldiers with whom her car checked in may not have radioed ahead to mobile checkpoints to indicate that they were coming, but that they were moving away from the military unit that fired upon them, pointing that the driver, who sat in the front, is alive.

In the interview, Naomi Klein also reported that Sgrena also said that she was very disoriented while in captivity, and that her captors didn't want independent journalists in Iraq talking to the Iraqi people.

Pier Scolari, Sgrena's life partner, stated that "Giuliana had information and the US military did not want her alive". "The Americans and the Italians knew that the car was arriving." He claims that Sgrena had detailed information about the use of banned weapons during the recent operations in Fallujah (see Operation Phantom Fury). Sgrena has written about alleged use of napalm in Fallujah. Scolari went on to speculate that they were at 700 metres from the airport, which implies that they had crossed all the checkpoints. "The whole shooting was heard live by the Presidency of the Council, who was on the phone with one of the agents. Then the US military confiscated and turned off the phones", said Scolari, who was then at the Palazzo Chigi. General Casey claimed that Sgrena and Calipari's vehicle had not gone through any prior checkpoints.

The checkpoint
The checkpoint was said to be manned by the U.S. 10th Mountain Division, a light infantry unit, but later revealed to be manned by a unit of the New York National Guard, which arrived in Iraq four months before the shooting and in Baghdad only one month before. The identity of the soldier who fired remained unknown until it was revealed by a Greek student at the University of Bologna, who recovered access to the censored portions of the report by saving the redacted pdf file as a text file. The soldier who fired the fatal bullet was apparently Mario Lozano, a US National Guardsman. The US is not a member of the International Criminal Court. The soldier will not be tried in a non-US court if he should face a trial. However, the fact that the soldier's name was revealed enables the Italian Investigating Magistrates (in Rome) to indict him in absentia.

The standards of US troops at checkpoints has been criticized in the past by human rights associations, and is now under scrutiny.

Satellite footage
On 28 April, CBS News released a report based on the Pentagon's analysis of an alleged time-stamped satellite footage of the incident. By measuring the distance the car traveled at 91 yards (83 m) and the time elapsed (less than three seconds), the Pentagon concluded that vehicle had to be going in excess of 60 mph (100 km/h).

However, since the Pentagon has not published the alleged footage, no independent analysis of it has been possible. The Pentagon analysts have not spoken to any news organization besides CBS News. Additionally, the definitive report, later released by the US Army, did not mention any satellite images (not even in the confidential parts, that were accidentally made available), raising questions in the Italian media about whether this footage existed at all.

While satellite coverage of Route Irish would be justified, as ambassador Negroponte was traveling on it, the Italian report claimed that weather conditions were so bad that no image could be acquired by satellites. The Italians also reported having asked for such imagery, and being told that the closest pictures available were for 2 and March, due to bad weather. The adverse weather condition was in actuality the reason why ambassador Negroponte moved by car convoy and not by helicopter, which was in turn the reason for the establishment of the blocking point, according to the US report.

Ballistics evidence
Ballistics experts commissioned by the Investigating Magistrates in Rome responsible for a criminal inquiry who examined the car in Rome came to the conclusion that the car was travelling no faster than 45 mph (60 km/h).

title: Rescue of Giuliana Sgrena


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Wikipedia:Peer review/History of South Africa in the apartheid era/archive1

History of South Africa in the apartheid era
I would like to know what I should do to bring this up to FA standard. Alr 15:34, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Disclaimer: I've worked on this article. The article only has two footnotes; it would be more typical for an FA on a historical topic to have 30 or 40. Someone needs to go to the District Six museum and get a copyright-free photo of the yellow "for use by white persons" sign. The maps from the University of Texas are claimed to be PD because they're products of the federal government, but I don't see any evidence of that on the UT web site, which specifically says at http://www.lib.utexas.edu/usage_statement.html that many of the materials are copyrighted. Some of the images are under noncommercial use licenses, which is a problem. Although it is possible to have an FA contain one or two images used under fair use, they would have to meet the criteria given at Fair use, and the sheer number of images with copyright issues in this article is going to be a big problem. This article consists mainly of material from History of South Africa, merged with the former Apartheid article (now redirected). History of South Africa was nominated for FA twice, and failed both times, for exactly these reasons: footnotes and copyrights. --Bcrowell 16:09, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that the maps on that site were PD unless marked otherwise, according to their FAQ. Alr 16:14, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Most of the SA maps were produced by the CIA. Alr 16:16, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The image's description page needs to have enough information to convince other people that the copyright info is correct.--Bcrowell 18:42, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I wonder if it would be OK to import material from the Library of Congress country study on South Africa, which as, to my knowlege, PD? Alr 17:36, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I think in general any product of the federal government is PD, except in cases where it was created by a contractor for the government.--Bcrowell 18:42, 1 September 2005 (UTC)


text:
List of social movements

Social movements are groupings of individuals or organizations which focus on political or social issues.

This list excludes the following:
 * Artistic movements: see list of art movements.
 * Independence movements: see lists of active separatist movements and list of historical separatist movements
 * Revolutionary movements: see List of revolutions and rebellions
 * Religious and spiritual movements: see List of religions and spiritual traditions and List of new religious movements

List

 * 20x20 movement
 * 9/11 Truth movement
 * Abolitionist movement
 * ACT UP
 * Alternative movement
 * Animal Rebellion
 * Anti-Apartheid Movement
 * Anti-capitalism
 * Anti-consumerism
 * Anti-corporate activism
 * Anti-Extradition Law Amendment Bill Movement
 * Anti-fascism
 * Anti-globalization movement
 * Anti-jock movement
 * Anti-liberalism
 * Anti-nuclear movement
 * Anti-psychiatry movement
 * Anti-war movement
 * Anti-work movement
 * Anti-vaccination movement
 * Alt-right
 * Asian American movement
 * Autism rights movement movement advocating for the right of people who are considered neurally divergent (anti-psychiatry)
 * Black Consciousness Movement
 * Black Lives Matter
 * Black Power movement
 * Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions
 * Brights movement
 * Chicano Movement
 * Children's rights movement
 * Civil rights movement
 * Climate movement
 * Conservation movement
 * Counterculture movement
 * Cooperative movement
 * Cultural movement
 * Decolonization
 * Disability rights movement
 * Earth First!
 * Ecofeminism
 * Ecomasculinity
 * Economy for the Common Good
 * Effective altruism
 * Efficiency movement
 * Environmental justice movement
 * Environmental movement
 * Esperanto movement
 * Ethiopian movement
 * Extinction Rebellion
 * Fair trade movement
 * Farm-to-table movement
 * Farm Worker Movement
 * Feminist movement
 * Free culture movement
 * Free love
 * Free school movement
 * Free software movement
 * LGBT social movements
 * Gerakan Harapan Baru (New Hope Movement in Malaysia)
 * Global citizens movement
 * Global justice movement
 * Health at Every Size
 * Health freedom movement
 * Hippie movement
 * Hizmet movement
 * Human rights movement
 * Identitarian movement
 * Immigrant rights movement
 * India Against Corruption
 * Indigenous peoples movement
 * Indigenous movements in the Americas
 * 2017 pro-jallikattu protests
 * Labor movement
 * Landless Peoples Movement (South Africa)
 * Landless Workers' Movement (MST), the landless workers' movement in Brazil
 * Lawyers' Movement in Pakistan
 * Lebensreform
 * LGBT rights opposition
 * LGBTQ social movements (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender social movements)
 * Mad Pride (psychiatric social movement)
 * March For Our Lives movement
 * Men's rights movement
 * Me Too movement
 * Mothers Against Drunk Driving
 * Multiculturalism
 * Namantar Andolan (Change Movement among Dalits in India)
 * Narmada Bachao Andolan
 * National Cleanup Day
 * Non-cooperation movement
 * Nonviolence movement
 * Occupy movement
 * Occupy Wall Street
 * Organic movement
 * Plogging
 * Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca
 * Pro-choice movement
 * Pro-life movement
 * Psychiatric survivors movement
 * Psilocybin decriminalization in the United States
 * QAnon

 * Rape crisis movement
 * Rastafari movement
 * Reform movements in the United States
 * Reproductive justice
 * Right to health
 * Right to life
 * Rural People's Movement
 * Scouting Movement
 * Salt March (Salt Satyagraha movement)
 * Skeptical movement
 * Sex-positive movement
 * Sex Workers' Rights Movement
 * Slow Food movement
 * Slow movement
 * Situationist International
 * Social democracy
 * South African Unemployed Peoples' Movement
 * Soviet Jewry Movement
 * Student movement
 * Sunrise Movement
 * Tea Party movement
 * Temperance movement
 * The Bees Army
 * The Zeitgeist Movement

 * Time to Change
 * Time's Up (movement)
 * Treatment Action Campaign - movement struggling for HIV/AIDS treatment in South Africa
 * Umbrella Movement
 * Veganism
 * Via Campesina - international peasants movement representing 150 million people, advocating food sovereignty.
 * Voluntary Human Extinction Movement
 * White Wednesdays
 * Western Cape Anti-Eviction Campaign South African movement struggling against evictions
 * White Power Movement
 * Wikimedia movement
 * Women Against War
 * Woman's Exchange Movement
 * Women's liberation movement
 * Women's suffrage
 * Hot Girl Walk
 * Greece Aganaktismenoi movements

title: List of social movements


text:
Free Breakfast for Children

The Free Breakfast for School Children Program, or the People’s Free Food Program, was a community service program run by the Black Panther Party that focused on providing free breakfast for children before school. The program began in January 1969 at Father Earl A. Neil's St. Augustine's Episcopal Church, located in West Oakland, California and spread throughout the nation. This program was an early manifestation of the social mission envisioned by Black Panther Party founders Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale, along with their founding of the Oakland Community School, which provided high-level education to 150 children from impoverished urban neighborhoods. The breakfasts formed the core of what became known as the party's Survival Programs. Inspired by contemporary research about the essential role of breakfast for optimal schooling and the belief that alleviating hunger and poverty was necessary for Black liberation, the Panthers cooked and served food to the poor inner city youth of the area. The service created community centers in various cities for children and parents to simultaneously eat and learn more about black liberation and the Black Panther Party's efforts.

History
The program was initiated in January 1969 at St. Augustine's Episcopal Church in West Oakland, California. Two months later, in March 1969, the Black Panther Party opened its second Free Breakfast Program for Children at the Sacred Heart Church in San Francisco, California. The program became so popular that by the end of the year, the Panthers set up kitchens in cities across the US, claiming to have fed 20,000 children in 1969. Between 1969 and 1971, at least 36 Free Breakfast for Kids programs were running nationwide.

The Free Breakfast Program quickly became the central organizing activity of the Black Panther Party. The reach and success of the program highlighted the inadequacies of the federal government's then-flagging and under-resourced lunch programs in public schools across the country. The program allowed the children of West Oakland's poor neighborhoods to eat a healthy nourishing meal in a safe, supportive environment before school, optimizing their ability to learn. The party used the program to educate children and their families about anti-capitalism, Black pride, and developing revolutionary consciousness. Many of these programs were held in predominantly Black neighborhoods but also served children of other ethnicities. The program was mainly run by volunteers—both party members and non-affiliated community members, most of them women. Those working closely in the program made sure that the free breakfasts were a concrete assistance to the city's poor communities. They also shaped the program to be a powerful symbol of racial injustice and ghetto marginalization in America by teaching liberation lessons while children ate their meal. Volunteers would start setting up and preparing food around 6 am, and served the meal from 7-8:30. Most programs took place in churches, schools, or community centers. A typical breakfast often included some combination of bacon, eggs, grits, hotcakes, toast, sausage, and a glass of juice or milk. Various chapters would also provide transportation for children, from home to the chapter's Free Breakfast site, then to school.

Black Panther Party's Survival Programs
The Free Breakfast for Children Program was one among more than 60 community social programs created by the Black Panther Party. They were renamed Survival Programs in 1971. These were operated by party members under the slogan, "Survival pending revolution". In addition to feeding school children, the party started People's Free Food Programs, delivering groceries, and encouraging community members to vote. Following the creation of the breakfast program came the founding of Liberation Schools. The installment of the Intercommunal Youth Institute and the People's Free Medical Research Health Institute followed in 1970. The Sickle Cell Anemia Foundation, which provided free sickle cell anemia testing, came in 1971. Another Survival Program started by the Black Panther Party was referred to as "medical self-defense" with the creation of healthcare clinics and their own ambulance services. Other survival programs included children's development centers, free clothing, free busing to prisons, free housing cooperatives, free ambulances, etc.

These programs had multiple goals including drawing community members to political rallies, dramatizing social inequalities, providing needed community services, and educating people in the ideas and program of the party. The Survival Programs solidified the Panthers' standing in the larger community. The party's daily presence in the neighborhoods with breakfast, child care, and other programs changed the impression of the Panthers. They were seen as community leaders that actively worked to help the people around them.

Women's Roles and Contributions to the Free Breakfast Program
The Black Panther Party began as a predominantly male organization but later grew to recruit large numbers of women. With the rise in women's membership, the Party recruited primarily women to staff the Free Breakfast for Children program. Women’s roles and responsibilities within the Black Panther party were often stereotyped and marginalized and this often reinforced traditional gender norms, which gained pushback from the Party's women in the effort to achieve gender equality. The Party's service programs were deeply gendered and often relied on women to fill service roles. Despite women's crucial roles in organizing, logistics, and community outreach, they were frequently demoted to support roles, such as cooking, childcare, and administrative tasks. This limited portrayal undermined their leadership potential and downplayed their significant contributions to the movement. With similar oppressive roles in the Free Breakfast for Children programs, women's duties and responsibilities consisted of maternal roles in the program’s kitchens and serving roles, further highlighting the gender struggles within the Black Panther Party.

The involvement of the women within their BPP chapters was greater than what they have been recognized for within their communities. A notable contribution to the party’s mission towards providing free services such as the Free Breakfast for Children program was made by Frankye Adams-Johnson, co-founder of the White Plains Black Panther Party chapter. Similar to the responsibilities and jobs designated to the men, many of these duties in the White Plains chapter were fulfilled by women in the party. Specifically looking at their Free Breakfast for Children program, Johnson’s chapter organized and coordinated the logistics of this program, securing food donations and managing operations. The women were also responsible for cooking nutritious meals and ensuring they met dietary needs. The existence of Black Panther Party chapters founded and run by women showed equal commitment to what the Party stood for. Moreover, women-based Free Breakfast programs within chapters founded by women helped to lessen the stereotypes often associated with women's roles in the Party.

Oakland
The Black Panther Party initially announced their intentions to begin the Free Breakfast for Children Program in September 1968 and the first program was officially launched at St. Augustine's Episcopal Church in Oakland, CA in late January 1969. Parishioner Ruth Beckford-Smith was in charge of this first program.

Beckford-Smith, working with Father Earl A. Neil, constructed a healthy menu that would nourish children and created a kitchen and dining hall that passed health inspections. The program's launch day served 11 children and gained popularity, as by the end of the week 135 children were being served daily at St. Augustine's Episcopal Church. The programs success influenced other chapters of the Black Panther Party, and soon the Free Breakfast Program was mandatory in all chapters nationwide.

Chicago
Fred Hampton, leader of the Chicago local, helped organize a number of community programs. These included five different breakfast programs on the West Side, a free medical center, a door to door program of health services (which offered testing for sickle cell anemia), and blood drives for the Cook County Hospital. The Chicago party also reached out to local gangs to clean up their acts, get them away from crime and bring them into the class war. The Party's efforts met with wide success, and Hampton's audiences and organized contingent grew by the day.

The Illinois chapter of the Free Breakfast program served more than 400 children every morning. The success of this program motivated government entities to act as shown in the city of Chicago’s choice to use federal funds to provide hot breakfast to poor children across the city. In addition to that, the BPP free health care clinics across Chicago motivated party members to make appeals to the Chicago Board of Health advocating for similar clinics in impoverished areas in Chicago.

Seattle
The Washington chapter of the Black Panther Party experienced support from Seattle-native Jimi Hendrix. He would often send donations to the Seattle chapter of the BPP's free breakfast program. The Washington chapter's decision to also serve white and Asian families, led to broad community support, allowing the chapter to expand to five different locations. Beyond providing free meals, the Washington chapter sent out free groceries every Wednesday to families in the Seattle community.

The Seattle chapter of the Black Panther Party met the needs of numerous ethnic groups because the black population in Seattle was not as high as in other areas. The attention to their specific community needs earned the Seattle chapter a reputation of being influential both in Washington and in the United States in general. The Seattle, Washington chapter's free breakfast program lasted longer than the majority of other programs and continued operations past the chapter's official closing date in 1977.

Kansas City
The Kansas City chapter of the Black Panther Party was led by Peter O’Neal and was composed of working-class, underclass, and middle-class African Americans. Originally the Kansas City chapter of the BPP was known as the "Black Vigilantes." However, when they gained formal admission to the BPP they changed their name. The main focus of the Kansas City chapter was the discontentment of the African American working class, black youth, and building survival programs.

The Kansas City chapter of the Black Panther Party successfully started two sites where free breakfast for school children was offered. In order to keep the program going, members of the Kansas City chapter visited local entrepreneurs and requested donations. The support they received allowed the Kansas City chapter to not only feed the black community but also offer political education classes and free health screenings.

Des Moines
The Des Moines, Iowa chapter of the Black Panther Party was successful in organizing a free breakfast program for children. The Des Moines Panthers fed elementary and junior high school children of different races and backgrounds. In order to continue to fund the breakfast program in Des Moines churches of all denominations would donate food and money.

Along with organizing a free breakfast program for children, the Des Moines chapter also organized health programs for adults. Under the leadership of Mary Rhem, the Des Moines chapter was successful in not only making their survival programs successful but also making their work known to the public. Thanks to multiple members of the Des Moines chapter making connections with community groups, their work and goals were spread to the public. The local paper, The Des Moines Register, covered the work of the breakfast program in Des Moines.

Houston
The chapter of the Black Panther Party in Houston, Texas took three waves to establish between 1968 and 1974, until their chapter was recognized as an official BPP chapter. The implementation of the Houston chapter didn’t gain importance in their community until Carl Hampton established the People's Party II (PP II) in 1970; his murder would play a pivotal role in their chapter gaining membership. By October 1971, PP II members received authorization to establish the Houston BPP branch. This final formation lasted approximately three years before it was forced to dissolve in August 1974, following orders from the national BPP leadership to relocate to Oakland.

During the final wave of the Houston chapter’s implementation, they were able to fully perform the roles and responsibilities similar to other more prominent chapters. While the free pest control project was a program that remained successful through their recognition phase, they were finally able to include the large programs that were run in the other Party’s chapters—free food giveaways, and sickle cell anemia and other preventive testing. One of their most successful programs—after many failed attempts at implementation—was the Free Breakfast for Children Program implemented in March 1973. While other chapters had support from their local churches for the Free Breakfast program, the Houston chapter lacked this support from their local churches. Since the members of the Houston chapter were determined to provide this program for their community, their first program was held in the Dew Drop Inn, a neighborhood beer joint on Dowling Street.

Demise
Despite its successes, federal authorities, as part of the COINTELPRO agenda, attempted to discredit and derail the Free Breakfast Program. Among other actions, authorities spread rumors of poisoned food and raided breakfast program locations while children were eating. The program gained FBI director J. Edgar Hoover's attention because of its success in gaining the support of many black children and liberal whites. The FBI would view the program as threat because of its appearance "as a front for indoctrinating children with Panther propaganda." Hoover wrote: "The [Program] represents the best and most influential activity going for the BPP and, as such, is potentially the greatest threat to efforts by authorities to neutralize the BPP and destroy what it stands for". As a result, many agencies, such as the police and FBI, were documented to be a force in harassing and discrediting the program, the people it benefited, and the Black Panther Party organization. Police raids were documented at various program sites as an effort to end the Free Breakfast for Children program.

Legacy
The success of the Black Panther Party's Free Breakfast for Children program helped reduce hunger and food insecurity locally, while pressuring state and federal governments to expand their own services. The program showed the government's failure in the War on Poverty and the ongoing impact of childhood hunger.

However, it would be a decade or more before such free breakfast programs, following the inspiration of the widespread success and popular support gained by the BPP's programs, would become almost universally available to poor children through the US government. In California, the party pushed then-Governor Ronald Reagan's administration to create a statewide free breakfast program. While the federally funded School Breakfast Program for underprivileged children was first piloted in 1966 by the US Department of Agriculture, Congress only permanently authorized it in 1975. However, the California campaign for a free breakfast program had the underlining objective of this state-wide implementation was to seize the political power the Black Panther Party had gained through their survival programs. Additionally, the implementation of this government-funded free breakfast program would cause controversy due to budget cuts made during Reagan’s presidency which would lead to widespread poverty across the United States.

title: Free Breakfast for Children


text: User talk:88.111.98.69

title: User talk:88.111.98.69


text: File:Biffyclyro vertigoofbliss.jpg

title: File:Biffyclyro vertigoofbliss.jpg


text: User talk:69.160.5.155

title: User talk:69.160.5.155


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The medieval class

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Nufy8 18:04, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

The medieval class
Whole topic is already covered, with far better quality, in Feudalism, Feudal society and related articles Tearlach 15:37, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Everything Tearlach said. FreplySpang (talk) 15:46, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * delete' duplicata DV8 2XL 15:52, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Redundant, schoolboy essay. --Dhartung | Talk 18:30, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Extremely poor standard - it would require a great deal of editing. With the same information repeated elsewhere, why bother? TheMadBaron 21:22, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Not an encyclopedia article. Delete. - Mike Rosoft 14:52, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. per Tearlach --Irmgard 21:03, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Myspacex

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Speedied by Rdsmith4. Radiant_ >|< 09:33, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

User:Myspacex
Spam - promotional of a web service. Was created twice at Myspacex and once at Talk:Myspacex. Delete, candidate for speedy deletion as vandalism. - Mike Rosoft 15:37, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. This is too far, even for userspace. Google does sometimes pick up non-mainspace stuff, and WP wouldn't to be helping its pagerank inadvertently. As long as this isn't one that Jimbo has sanctioned, but there's no evidence of that. -Splash 15:19, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * This "user" has so far only contributed to this user page and to the Myspacex article (edits which were immediately reverted). This is not an appropriate use of the user space.  The Myspacex article itself still needs aggressive cleanup.  This is way over the top.  Rossami (talk) 15:59, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Zap -- This content should be removed and the page title redirected to the Sandbox. In fact, I'm going to Be Bold and do just that, right now. — Xiong 熊 talk * 20:49, 2005 September 2 (UTC)
 * Nope. No cross-namespace redirects. Sorry. -Splash 21:22, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment I worked with this user via email to get this user page working. If the page has to be deleted, then you will get no problems with me. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 22:21, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, inappropriate userspace. It's not really useful to make up a zapping process on the spot and act on it as if it were policy. Radiant_ >|< 22:24, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

 * Go ahead, delete it. While you debate, I act -- and I seriously doubt that anybody wants to retain the nominated page in any form. I think it is highly useful to create tools whenever needed. But that doesn't make them policy -- and I never said it did. No FUD, please. — Xiong 熊 talk * 23:07, 2005 September 2 (UTC)

 * This is obvious spam. I've speedy-deleted it. — Dan | Talk 00:38, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Thank You! — Xiong 熊 talk * 02:38, 2005 September 3 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Panchamukha

Panchamukha (पञ्चमुख), also rendered Panchamukhi, is a concept in Hindu iconography, in which a deity is represented with five heads. Several Hindu deities are depicted with five faces in their iconography, such as Hanuman, Shiva, Brahma, Ganesha, and Gayatri.

Hanuman
The deity Hanuman is sometimes featured with five-faces in his iconography, known as Panchamukhi Hanuman, or Panchamukha Anjaneya. Each head is that of a deity associated with Vishnu, and is depicted to be facing a cardinal direction: Hanuman faces the east, Narasimha faces the south, Varaha faces the north, Garuda faces the west, and Hayagriva faces the sky. This iconography is not regarded to exist in mainstream Hinduism, and has been primarily featured in the Tantra tradition only since the 15th century CE. The description of the appearance of Panchamukha Hanuman is found in a Tantric treatise called the Hanumat Rahashyam. The section of the text called the Panchamukhahanumat Kavacham contains a description of this form.

This form of the deity also appears in regional traditions of the Ramayana. In one version, Rama and Lakshmana are captured by Ahiravana, and are offered to a goddess as sacrifices in Patala, the netherworld. Hanuman rescues the brothers from their captivity, slaying the goddess, and defeats Ahiravana by extinguishing five lamps simultaneously by manifesting his five faces.

Shiva
The deity Shiva is sometimes represented in his panchamukha aspect, each connoting one of his attributes:

 * 1) His upward face is called iśānam, and represents knowledge and nature. It is supposed to be depicted in a copper hue.
 * 2) His eastern face is called tatpuruṣam, and represents the organs of touch and action. It is supposed to be depicted in a yellow hue.
 * 3) His western face is called vāmadevam, and represents the ego and fire. It is supposed to be depicted in a red hue.
 * 4) His southern face is called aghoram, and represents intellect and righteousness. It is supposed to be depicted in a blue hue.
 * 5) His northern face is called sadyojātam, and represents the mind and the substance called soma. It is supposed to be depicted in a white hue.

Brahma
The deity Brahma, while most commonly depicted with four heads, is often stated to have once possessed five heads in Hindu literature. According to one legend, after Brahma created a goddess, named either Saraswati, Savitri, or Gayatri, he grew infatuated by her, despite the protests of sages that she was his spiritual daughter. The goddess is said to have offered her respects to her creator by circumambulating him. Unable to control himself, in desperation to maintain his sight of her, Brahma manifested three heads to his sides and also one atop his head. This exhausted him of all of his merit. in another legend, Brahma asserted his superiority over Shiva, his fifth head making a number of incendiary remarks against him. Shiva responded by manifesting his own panchamukha aspect, and sliced off Brahma's fifth head with his fingernail, or commanded his aspect of Bhairava to perform the deed.

Ganesha
The deity Ganesha is sometimes represented with five faces in his iconography, called Heramba or Panchamukha Ganesha. Each head of the deity is said to represent the five koshas, the sheaths of annamaya, pranamaya, manomaya, vijñānamaya, and anandamaya.

Gayatri
The deity Gayatri, the personification of the Gayatri mantra, is depicted to possess five faces in her iconography. Four of her heads are stated to depict the four Vedas, while the fifth head stands for the Ultimate Reality.

Panchmukhi Hanuman temple, Basatiyawala
The Panchmukhi Hanuman temple of Basatiyawala is situated in the Yamunanagar district of Haryana near Kalesar National Park.

Panchmukhi Hanuman Temple, Karachi
A Panchmukhi Hanuman temple is located in Karachi in the Sindh Province of Pakistan. It is claimed to be a 1,500 year old temple.

title: Panchamukha


text:
User talk:TG0000

Hello this is me Timothy. I haven't done much with this page. But that's because I spend most of my free time on my blogs or on social media. But you can also

- find out plenty about me through https://mewe.com/i/timothy_lgott

- or the somewhat obligatory http://www.facebook.com/timothy.gott

- contact me here http://gottmilk.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/contact-info/

- or http://timothy.gott.googlepages.com

I really enjoy knowlege and what wikipedia is doing though I am cautious of knowledge because for so many it can become more important than the Love that we should have for others.

Let me give you an example; Have you ever had someone scoff at you when you did not know something? or have you ever used the term or thought to yourself "He isn't very smart" or "He's rather stupid" or He's uneducated" or anything to that effect? Well that is what I mean about knowledge sometimes being more important than Love. If Love is the most important thing in your life then you would not be sitting here counting the number of times that I mispelled a word.

With that idea aside I really enjoy learning new things, but especially when it involves interacting with other people; sharing knowlege, learning and growning together.

... Timothy

Recent articles
Hey!

Just to let you know, if you're interested in articles that point to a correct article, just type "#REDIRECT Name of the article". Thanks! Linuxbeak (drop me a line) 18:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Broken redirect
You recently created the article Despidita, the entire content of which reads "#REDIRECT despidita". (You'd be surprised how often this happens!) I have been unable to figure out what article you were trying to redirect to; if you can correct this entry, please do. --Russ Blau (talk) 23:48, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Can you please tell me how to fix this if I do it in the future --Timothy Gott (talk) 14:08, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Free Bytes
A template has been added to the article Free Bytes, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice explains why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you endorse deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please tag it with db-author. Conscious 11:32, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

The article Free Bytes has been speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This was done because the article, which appeared to be about a real person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), or web content, did not indicate how or why the subject is notable, that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the notability of the subject may be deleted at any time. If you can indicate why the subject is really notable, you are free to re-create the article, making sure to cite any verifiable sources.

Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, and for specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for musicians, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. NawlinWiki (talk) 04:58, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Greetings everyone. Free Bytes no longer exists however it has historical significance in regard to some of the early efforts to solve an electronics e-waste problem.

Can I access the deleted article and edit it to add this historical perspective? tg3793 (talk) 04:25, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of CottageMed

A tag has been placed on CottageMed, requesting that it be deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under two or more of the criteria for speedy deletion, by which pages can be deleted at any time, without discussion. If the page meets any of these strictly-defined criteria, then it may soon be deleted by an administrator. The reasons it has been tagged are:
 * It seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. (See section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Organizations for more information.
 * It appears to be about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), individual animal, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. (See section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Dorama285 (talk) 04:54, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Deb. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions have been undone because they appeared to be promotional. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted; Wikipedia articles should be written objectively, using independent sources, and from a neutral perspective. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. Hello, Tg3793. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

 * avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization or competitors;
 * propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the request edit template);
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In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you.Deb (talk) 14:37, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Is there a way to find what I had written before. I have no relationship with CottageMed and simply thought it served as a fascinating Open-source/Nonprofit solution that would fit nicely alongside some of the other solutions listed here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_health_software tg3793 (talk) 04:17, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

title: User talk:TG0000


text:
Talk:Direct legislature

redirect to Direct democracy

 * I think this page should become a redirect to the Direct democracy article as that is the far more common term used for the concept of the people directly voting on laws Vino s 15:41, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Direct legislature


text:
Henry Portman, 2nd Viscount Portman

William Henry Berkeley Portman, 2nd Viscount Portman, GCVO (12 July 1829 – 16 October 1919) was a British Liberal Member of Parliament.

Background
Portman was the son of Edward Portman, 1st Viscount Portman and Lady Emma Lascelles, daughter of Henry Lascelles, 2nd Earl of Harewood.

Political career
Portman was elected to Parliament for Shaftesbury in 1852, a seat he held until 1857, and then represented Dorset from 1857 to 1885. In 1888 he succeeded his father and entered the House of Lords.

Estates
At the end of the nineteenth century the 99-year leases on the family properties in London came up for renewal, generating a colossal income for Lord Portman of some £100,000 a year. With this fortune he commissioned Norman Shaw to build a new mansion for him at the family seat in Bryanston, Dorset. Within 30 years, however, it had been sold to Bryanston School, which is still based there. This was because it rapidly became anachronistic and uneconomic even for an aristocratic family to occupy a house on such a scale, and the family was also crippled by death duties when the second Viscount's heir and his heir's heir died within ten years of him.

Family
Son of Edward Portman, 1st Viscount Portman (9 July 1799 – 19 November 1888) and Lady Emma Lascelles (16 March 1809 – 8 February 1865)

William Henry Berkeley Portman married Mary Selina Charlotte FitzWilliam (9 Jan 1836 – 3 January 1899), daughter of William Charles FitzWilliam (18 Jan 1812 – 8 November 1835), son of the 5th Earl Fitzwilliam,(1786–1857) and Lady Selina Charlotte Jenkinson, daughter of the 3rd Earl of Liverpool, on 21 June 1855.

They had six sons and two daughters:

 * Hon. Edward William Berkeley Portman (30 July 1856 – 27 April 1911). He married as her second husband, Hon. Constance Mary Lawley, daughter of Beilby Lawley, 2nd Baron Wenlock. They had no issue.
 * Hon. Walter George Berkeley Portman (2 June 1858 – 14 December 1865).
 * The Rt. Hon. Henry Berkeley Portman, 3rd Viscount Portman (16 February 1860 – 18 January 1923).
 * Hon. Emma Selina Portman (5 April 1863 – 1 March 1941). She married Ronald Ruthven Leslie-Melville, 11th Earl of Leven. They had four sons, and one daughter.
 * The Rt. Hon. Claud Berkeley Portman, 4th Viscount Portman (1 November 1864 – 6 June 1929).
 * Hon. Susan Alice Portman (30 March 1866 – 21 August 1933). She married Alan William Heber-Percy, grandson of Bishop Hugh Percy through his son Algernon. They had four sons, and three daughters.
 * The Rt. Hon. Seymour Berkeley Portman, 6th Viscount Portman (19 February 1868 – 2 November 1946).
 * The Rt. Hon. Gerald Berkeley Portman, 7th Viscount Portman (23 January 1875 – 3 September 1948). He married Dorothy Marie Isolde Sheffield, daughter of Sir Robert Sheffield, 5th Baronet. They had two sons, and one daughter, Penolope, who married Brigadier Archer Francis Lawrence Clive, the son of Lt.-Gen. Sir Sidney Clive. They had one son, and daughter.

Two of his sons predeceased him and all four of the others succeeded to his title in the course of time (see the titles in the names above).

Lord Portman's first wife died in 1899. In 1908 he married, secondly, shortly before his 79th birthday, Frances Maxwell Buchanan Cuninghame, by whom there were no further children. Lord Portman died in October 1919, aged 90, and was succeeded in his titles by his eldest surviving son, Henry Berkeley Portman.

title: Henry Portman, 2nd Viscount Portman


text:
Talk:Reflecting Absence

Does anyone know what the timeline for completion is on the memorial? Have they even started?
 * I don't believe the construction of RA has started. As for its opening date, according to this, it will be in 2009. -- 08:57, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Merge Discussion
This one is obvious: The wining design name is now being used as a synonym for the memorial. patsw 03:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Reflecting Absence


text:
Talk:Robert Kocharyan

Untitled
In your article you mention that Robert Kocharian was born in Nagorno Karabakh then part of Azerbaijan.

I want to remind you that Nagorno Karabakh is still a part of Azerbaijan which is under Armenian occupation. I do urge you to change above mentioned reference.

POV statement about Nagorno-Karabakh
Sorry, but in your article there is a clear POV statement about Nagorno-Karabakh, TO say that Karabakh "is an historically-Armenian province that was arbitrarily granted to Azerbaijan by Josef Stalin in the 1920s" means to present this disputed issue under a pro-armenian point of view, while Wikipedia must remain neutral.

In the Wikipedia article about Nagorno-Karabakh it is written:

In 1920, Transcaucasia was taken over by the Bolsheviks who, in order to attract public support, promised that they would allot Karabakh to Armenia, along with Nakhichevan, and Zangezur (separating Nakhichevan from Azerbaijan proper). However, Moscow also had far-reaching plans concerning Turkey, hoping that it would, with a little help from Russia, develop along Communist lines. Needing to appease Turkey, Moscow agreed to a division that left Zangezur to Armenia, while LEAVING Karabakh and Nakhichevan in Azerbaijan. As a result, the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region was established within the Azerbaijan SSR in 1923. Most of the decisions on the transfer of the territories, and the establishment of new autonomous entities, were made under pressure from Stalin, who is still blamed by both Azeris and Armenians for arbitrary decisions made against their national interests.

So, under this point of view Karabakh was LEFT to Azerbaijan and not "arbitrally given by Stalin". I praise you to change the statement, because if not the article can't be considered NPOV.

P.S. I noticed that the same statement about Karabakh " an historically-Armenian province that was arbitrarily granted to Azerbaijan by Josef Stalin in the 1920s" is present also in other articles and in my opinion this is not really neutral.

Best Regards!

(Virgilio 15:41, 1 September 2005 (UTC))

Is this an acceptable version? Ulf-S.

Excellent one I have to say. You found a very good compromise my friend, thank you very much. Best Regards!

(Virgilio 22:11, 8 September 2005 (UTC))

Kocharian or Kocharyan?
His Armenian name is "Քոչարյան". It can be transliterated as "Kocharian" or "Kocharyan", depending of the system used. Armenian official sources use sometimes one system (the web-site of the president) and sometimes the other (the web site of the government). There is no "official" transliteration. However, transliterating the letter յ with y is more logical than with i. Furthermore, Wikipedia's cohesion needs to use one system throughout it. For those resons, I want to rename this article Robert Kocharyan. Švitrigaila 14:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

 * The English usage matters more than official one (which would imply Kocharian imo). Google searches give significantly more results for Kocharian vs
 * Same is true for Google news and Google scholar. Also, until you moved, Bella Kocharyan, the only other Kochar_an on wiki, was Bella Kocharian. We also have Robert Kocharian on several iw's including simple:Robert Kocharian, mostly it is ...jan, among the ones I checked, only the Turkish one was ...yan. The usage on wiki's imply Kocharian as well (when compared to Kocharyan). If a discussion is needed, discussion before the move is better than discussion four hours after the move. DenizTC 15:18, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Also, doing this is not good before the end of the discussion, and that edit is unnecessary. We can have redirects. Redirects bring some load to wikipedia servers, but so do the edits that remove them. Your edit might have brought more load to servers than the redirect would do. DenizTC 15:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Coherence and cohesion of the encyclopedia are far more important than Google fights. A same rule must be used for every Armenian names on Wikipedia (I mean for the name of every Armenian citizen). We don't need to stick to the most used form of every single name. Redirects are precisely made for that. And I don't know what I did wrong with that: since the article's title is now Robert Kocharyan, I can correct all the links I find. For myself the move of the article was an obvious thing to do. I didn't seek a discussion, but if you want to start one, you can. Švitrigaila 15:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 'Google fights' are useful. They (Google/Google news/Google scholar) are good indicators of English usage. See Naming conflicts. We need to stick to the most used correct name when choosing the name of the article, redirects exist for less common/alternative names. You are right with your suggestion that a MOS (Manual of Style) should exist for Armenia related pages. Maybe it already exists, and if we had waited long enough, someone aware of the existence of such MOS (if it does exist) could have joined the discussion and had helped us. Note that both Kocharian's were Kocharian before your moves, and this might indicate something.
 * What you did wrong with that edit was that you decided the outcome of a discussion you started before it ended/before 'good' number of people joined the discussion/before enough time had passed for people to see the discussion, and you took action. Next time, think about using piping instead of moving the relevant article unilaterally, if you wish a different name to appear. DenizTC 16:40, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "Google fight" is the zero-level of knowledge. Using it is to get a commonly received idea to stand in for a fact. An encyclopedia is a comprehensive survey of knowledge, presented with organisation, coherence and cohesion. "Google fight" has no place in an encyclopedia. The fact that the Kocharian spelling is used twice more often than the Kocharyan spelling has absolutely no significance for knowledge. Technically, Wikipedia has the "redirect" function which is made exactly to remedy the problem of using a lesser known form of a name. The fact that the president's name is "Քոչարյան" and that the letter յ is transcribed by y and not by i is a simple application of a cohesion rule. It must apply with no contest.
 * "What I did" is not wronger than each of the thousands edits I made on Wikipedia since I came here two years ago. When I can improve an article, either by a new fact, or a precision, or only the correction of a misspelling, I do it. I don't start a discussion with the person who wrote the article before me. To correct this is on no account wronger than to correct that. Beleive me: I don't have anything against those who write Kocharian in the articles they write. If it's the spelling they know, it's normal they use it. But it's normal too that if I see such an article I correct it like a mere misspelling. Since I wouldn't use a pipe for a misspeelling (eg: William Shekspeare !) I can't see why I should use a pipe for Armenian names ( Robert Kocharyan !!!) Švitrigaila 11:19, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Švitrigaila on this, we should be using the most correct name, i.e. Kocharyan. — Nightstallion 11:32, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

 * The Republic of Armenia translates last names with yan while USSR did it with ian. I don't mind either to be used, but Švitrigaila has a better argument for this. Just my two cents. VartanM 15:37, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your support, but I don't think the queston is whether the Republic of Armenia transliterates its names a way or another. Those two examples ( and ) show that this issue is quite undecided even in official web sites. It's better to use the -yan spelling because it's simpler and more logical when you transliterate directly from modern Eastern Armenian to English. On the other hand, the -ian spelling was simpler and more logical when they transliterated from Russian to French (French was the "Western language" used on Soviet passports).
 * The question is whether we should use a single Eastern Armenian transliteration system throughout Wikipedia or not, and I think the answer is obviously "yes". We have no reason to transliterate an Armenian name (for example Լևոն Տեր-Պետրոսյան) in Russian (Левон Тер–Петросян), then in French (Levon Ter-Petrossian) and then to use this form in an English text (the same apply for Azerbaijani names when a name like "Fuad Quliyev" is transliterated in Russian by Фуад Гулиев, then in French by Fouad Gouliev and then spelled with this French form in English texts!) Armenian names must be transliterated directly to English, using the most adapted system. Then Ռոբերտ Քոչարյան is Robert Kocharyan, Լևոն Տեր-Պետրոսյան is Levon Ter-Petrosyan and (maybe you won't agree because of your name...) Վարդան Օսկանյան must be Vardan Osganyan. Švitrigaila 17:42, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree on adapting a system, and the most logical would be, as you said from Armenian directly to English. I also agree on Vartan moving to Vardan. Although I'm not sure about Osganyan կ=k. I believe this idea should be moved to Wikiproject Armenia talkpage, to get a wider audience. But I'm sure that everyone would agree on adapting a system. VartanM 06:38, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You're perfectly right and it's my mistake: Վարդան Օսկանյան should be transcribed by "Vardan Oskanyan" and not "Vardan Osganyan". I do it at once. Švitrigaila 12:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I've written a new guideline for the transcription of Eastern Armenian names. It's here. Don't hesitate to add your comments on the talk page and to vote for or against it. Švitrigaila 14:51, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Face looking to the left
Folks, can we find an image where he looks to the left? As according to Wkipedia standards faces should look twards the text not away, it looks much better this way. Steelmate (talk) 19:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You can choose one from here and add the license. All of the pictures from that site are ok to be uploaded, preferably to commons, so other projects could use them as well. VartanM (talk) 20:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Shootings
Removed a sentence claiming that "Armenians at large" "widely" believe Kocharian is responsible for the murder of several people in parliament, including the Speaker and the prime minister. That is a defamatory statement and thus not appropriate for a BLP. Saying something is widely believed is a way of claiming it's true without adducing evidence. Nor is it clear what "Armenians at large" "widely" believe. The citation to a book by the son of a prominent opponent of the president is inadequate to establish what public opinion holds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arkunets (talk • contribs) 04:33, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

A fellow editor insists on a sentence in the lead, "He is blamed to be responsible for the March 1 shootings." First, "blamed to be responsible" is not standard English. "He is blamed for" is OK. But in using the passive "is blamed," we avoid saying who is doing the blaming. Kocharyan himself obviously would blame the presidential candidate Levon Ter-Petrossyan, who claimed he was leading a "bourgeois revolution"; and he'd blame instigators like Nikol Pashinyan who encouraged people to resort to violence. So it's important to note whose perspective is being reported. Although, personally, I don't think this matter belongs in the lead, I defer to my fellow editor. But if it's going to be there, it should be grammatically correct and specify that the accusation of murder against this living person is made by his opponents.--Arkunets (talk) 02:26, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It is, indeed, widely believed by Armenians that Kocharyan and Serzhik Sargsyan were behind the October 27 shooting.
 * It is obvious who is responsible for the death of 10 people during the 2008 protests. Levon Ter-Petrosyan was not the commander of the police and army forces that were brought into Yerevan on March 1, 2008. LTP or Pasinyan might have, in some people's views, instigated violence but they were in no way responsible for the death as it is a known fact that the government forces shoot at the protesters. The fact that after 5 years Serzhik's government hasn't done anything in disclosing what actually happened in 2008 speaks for itself.  -- Ե րևանցի  talk  04:23, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure! and the same Hayrikian is not an opponent but was in coalition with Kocharyan since 1998 and a human rights responsible. OptimusView (talk) 06:00, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure! and the same Hayrikian is not an opponent but was in coalition with Kocharyan since 1998 and a human rights responsible. OptimusView (talk) 06:00, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

It is inaccurate at best to assert that the police "lawfully" dispersed the crowds by any account. Therefore this has been removed. I invite a scholarly discussion before such implicit conclusions are made. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.53.82.156 (talk) 04:27, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

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New charges
He is charged with commiting serious felonies, and today he can be arrested,. 46.71.141.194 (talk) 10:15, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:25, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Ոսկե արծիվ - Gold eagle order (NKR).jpg

title: Talk:Robert Kocharyan


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Backcountry.com

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. The two keepers, whilst perfectly entitled to participate, are both principal authors of the article. This too doens't disqualify them at all, but everyone apart from the principal authors has said we should delete. -Splash 21:53, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Backcountry.com
Delete - Not too much promotional language, but still seems like an ad. High ratio of website addresses to content. If there is something substantial/notable/neutral to say about this company that's fine, but I don't see it here. FreplySpang (talk) 15:42, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Ad DV8 2XL 15:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, ad.BillyCreamCorn 15:55, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, I removed the website spam. The company is interesting in that it is a pure open source ecommerce, and of it's rapid growth.  -- yes I work here now, so take that along with my opinion. Davejenk1ns 21:05, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Marcus22 14:23, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep JohnBresee Pardon me, as I am a newbie and I am a founder of the company. But I have lurked here for quite a while and I run a large wiki for our intranet. My question is, how is this page acceptable R.E.I., but Backcountry's is not. They are our direct competitor and a massive big box store crushing independants everywhere. I ask that at least the same rules be applied. Backcountry has an interesting history on the Internet, survived without VC dollars and is relevant data for Wikipedia's audience. The text is not filled with hyperbole. I really hope to learn here. Thanks.
 * Delete. Non-notable company. / Peter Isotalo 08:26, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text: User talk:70.31.123.8

title: User talk:70.31.123.8