text:
Talk:Jallianwala Bagh

I think this page should just redirect to the Amritsar Massacre page but I don't know how to do that

jallianwala bad≤ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.168.237.193 (talk) 12:25, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

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Improvement
For Later years section: Does it qualify as WP:NOTNEWS? The place may have been visited by many dignitaries. Why write about some specific people? Only because they are British? I think it is unwarranted IMO. -Nizil (talk) 06:11, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I think the visits and apology etc things are covered well in Jallianwala Bagh massacre. So here it should only focus on the "place" with brief history. What do you think? -Nizil (talk) 06:14, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
 * ...Sure. We could see if other well documented and widely publicized visits have happened or leave it out. I'll have a read around. Thank you for watching over. What do you suggest? Maybe other editors might help. Whispyhistory (talk) 10:07, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Hi The visits from British and Indians are quite well publicised, so added some relevant to visiting the site. Please amend as feel appropriate. I found that there was a daily narration of the story of 1919 which was voiced by Amitabh Bachan...|title=Jallianwala,, but I can't tell if when it started and if if temporally stopped or is still playing. Whispyhistory (talk) 16:19, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
 * The light and sound show seem stopped due to lack of funds according to reference. So I suggest not to include it in the article (Reference of Feb 2019). The visits were well publicised and are covered in massacre article. I suggest to focus on place and memorials here. History of the massacre and visits are better left to massacre article because of better context there. Regards,Nizil (talk) 11:22, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Sure...will expand on memorials over time...I hope I have done ok...Whispyhistory (talk) 21:31, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
 * After recent edits, I have cleaned up and reorganised the article. Please have a look. The early history (before massacre) needs references (tagged citation needed). I think some images in Jallianwala Bagh next to text in each section (Entrance etc.) would give better context instead of images presented in Gallery. Regards,- Nizil (talk) 07:57, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi ... Looks good. I will do as you have suggested... sounds sensible. Whispyhistory (talk) 16:55, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:37, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Historical-lane.jpg

Jallianwala bagh
soma loud 106.206.45.185 (talk) 13:26, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

History
Jallianwala bagh 205.253.11.197 (talk) 10:14, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jallianwala Bagh


text:
Area codes 715 and 534

Area codes 715 and 534 are telephone area codes in the North American Numbering Plan (NANP) for the U.S. state of Wisconsin. The numbering plan area (NPA) comprises most of the northern part of the state. 715 was one of the original North American area codes created in 1947, while 534 was added in 2010 as an additional code for the same numbering plan area to form an overlay plan.

History
In October 1947, AT&T published the first nationwide telephone numbering plan in coordination with independent telephone operators. Eighty-six NPAs across North America were initially designated, each assigned a unique three-digit area code. Wisconsin was divided into two NPAs, with the northern half of the state receiving the code 715 and the rest being assigned area code 414.

As each area code could only support a maximum of 7.92 million numbers, NPAs would be split over time to avoid telephone number exhaustion. In 1955 the southern Wisconsin NPA was split in half, with the western portion being assigned the area code 608. By 1967, the number of nationally assigned area codes had increased to 129, with the southern Wisconsin NPA fracturing again in 1997 and 1999 to accommodate additional numbers.

Due to northern Wisconsin's low population density, 715 was for a long time one of the few original area codes never to have been split or overlaid. But by 2010, the proliferation of cellphones and pagers had almost exhausted 715's telephone numbers. Central office code relief was implemented by adding area code 534 to form an overlay that summer.

Counties

 * Ashland, Barron, Bayfield, Buffalo, Burnett, Chippewa, Clark, Douglas, Dunn, Eau Claire, Florence, Forest, Iron, Jackson, Langlade, Lincoln, Marathon, Marinette, Menominee, Oconto, Oneida, Outagamie, Pepin, Pierce, Polk, Portage, Price, Rusk, Saint Croix, Sawyer, Shawano, Taylor, Trempealeau, Vilas, Washburn, Waupaca, Waushara, and Wood

Cities, towns and villages

 * Abbotsford, Alma Center, Almena, Almond, Altoona, Amberg, Amery, Amherst, Amherst Junction, Aniwa, Antigo, Arbor Vitae, Argonne, Arkansaw, Armstrong Creek, Arpin, Ashland, Athelstane, Athens, Auburndale, Augusta, Babcock, Baldwin, Balsam Lake, Bancroft, Barron, Barronett, Bay City, Bayfield, Bear Creek, Beecher, Beldenville, Benoit, Big Falls, Birchwood, Birnamwood, Black River Falls, Blenker, Bloomer, Bonduel, Boulder Junction, Bowler, Boyceville, Boyd, Brantwood, Brill, Brokaw, Bruce, Brule, Bryant, Butternut, Cable, Cadott, Cameron Caroline, Catawba, Cecil, Centuria, Chetek, Chili, Chippewa Falls, Clam Lake, Clayton, Clear Lake, Cleghorn, Clintonville, Colby, Colfax, Coloma, Comstock, Conover, Conrath, Cornell, Cornucopia, Couderay, Crandon, Crivitz, Cumberland, Curtiss, Cushing, Custer, Dallas, Danbury, Deer Park, Deerbrook, Dorchester, Downing, Downsville, Dresser, Drummond, Dunbar, Durand, Eagle River, East Ellsworth, Eau Claire, Eau Galle, Edgar, Edgewater, Eland, Elcho, Elderon, Eleva, Elk Mound, Ellsworth, Elmwood, Elton, Embarrass, Exeland, Fairchild, Fall Creek, Fence, Fifield, Florence, Foxboro, Frederic, Galloway, Gile, Gilman, Gilmanton, Gleason, Glen Flora, Glenwood City, Glidden, Goodman, Gordon, Grand View, Granton, Grantsburg, Green Valley, Greenwood, Gresham, Hager City, Hammond, Hancock, Hannibal, Harshaw, Hatley, Haugen, Hawkins, Hawthorne, Hayward, Hazelhurst, Heafford Junction, Herbster, Hertel, Hewitt, High Bridge, Hixton, Holcombe, Houlton, Hudson, Humbird, Hurley, Independence, Iola, Irma, Iron Belt, Iron River, Jim Falls, Jump River (CDP), Town of Jump River, Junction City, Kennan, Keshena, King, Knapp, Kronenwetter, La Pointe, Lac du Flambeau, Ladysmith, Lake Nebagamon, Lake Tomahawk, Lakewood, Land O' Lakes, Laona, Leopolis, Long Lake, Loyal, Lublin, Luck, Maiden Rock, Manitowish Waters, Maple, Marathon, Marengo, Marinette, Marion, Marshfield, Mason, Mattoon, McNaughton, Medford, Mellen, Menomonie, Mercer, Merrill, Merrillan, Mikana, Milladore, Millston, Milltown, Minocqua, Minong, Mondovi, Montreal, Mosinee, Mountain, Neillsville, Nekoosa, Nelson, Nelsonville, Neopit, New Auburn, New Richmond, Niagara, Odanah, Ogema, Ojibwa, Osceola, Osseo, Owen, Park Falls, Pearson, Pelican Lake, Pembine, Pepin, Peshtigo, Phelps, Phillips, Phlox, Pickerel, Pigeon Falls, Pittsville, Plainfield, Plover, Plum City, Poplar, Port Edwards, Port Wing, Porterfield, Prairie Farm, Prentice, Prescott, Presque Isle, Radisson, Rhinelander, Rib Lake, Rice Lake, Ridgeland, Ringle, River Falls, Roberts, Rock Falls, Rosholt, Rothschild, Rudolph, Saint Croix Falls, St. Germain, Sand Creek, Sarona, Saxon, Sayner, Scandinavia, Schofield, Shawano, Sheldon, Shell Lake, Siren, Solon Springs, Somerset, South Range, Spencer, Spooner, Spring Valley, Springbrook, Stanley, Star Lake, Star Prairie, Stetsonville, Stevens Point, Stockholm, Stone Lake, Stratford, Strum, Summit Lake, Superior, Taylor, Thorp, Three Lakes, Tigerton, Tilleda, Tomahawk, Tony, Townsend, Trego, Tripoli, Turtle Lake, Unity, Upson, Vesper, Wabeno, Wascott, Washburn, Waupaca, Wausau, Wausaukee, Webb Lake, Webster, Westboro, Weyerhaeuser, Wheeler, White Lake, Whitehall, Willard, Wilson, Winter, Wisconsin Rapids, Withee, Wittenberg, Woodruff, Woodville, and Zachow

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Area codes 715 and 534


text:
The Diffs

The Diffs are an American punk band from Los Angeles, California, United States. Founded in 2003, their influences include original Los Angeles punk bands such as Black Flag, the Germs, The Weirdos, and X. Their MySpace page only identifies Ted Nugent as an influence.

The band is featured in the 2007 documentary, Punk's Not Dead.

Discography

 * 2005: The Diffs (Self-titled CD)
 * 2005: The Diffs: Live at the Key Club (DVD)

Trivia
Brothers Elvis Kuehn and Max Kuehn are the sons of T.S.O.L. keyboardist, Greg Kuehn. They are currently in the band FIDLAR.

title: The Diffs


text:
Talk:Area codes 715 and 534

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title: Talk:Area codes 715 and 534


text:
Wikipedia talk:Featured picture candidates/Autofellatio

First removal

 * {*sigh*} We don't always get what we want. User:Markalexander100 removed this nomination from Featured picture candidates (as noted below); and here is my response on User talk:Markalexander100:

My friend, I do not want to be impolite, but I think it is only right to explain to you in short words that I'm upset with you. I understand you do not like my nomination; that is your right. You removed my nomination; you may or may not have the right to do this thing; I think you do not, but it is, at least, a gray area. You might have found some technical grounds to perform the action, but you did not.

You performed this edit with edit summary: rm bad-faith nomination. You will notice I stated in the text of my nomination: I sincerely believe this photo represents the very best this project has to offer. and Perhaps no other photo we have is as deserving of the honor of FP..

What do you not understand about that?

My nomination may be in bad taste; it may offend your religious faith or your moral sensibilities; it may shock your wife or get you fired from your job; it may, perhaps, get all of us arrested by the FBI; but in absolutely no way do I fail to stand behind it.

Maybe you just don't understand what "bad faith" means. You might read Bad faith and Assume good faith. Don't forget to check out the talk pages, too. If you'd like the short explanation, "bad faith" is when somebody is lying about his reasons for doing something.

 * For instance, it is Saturday night, and my (purely hypothetical) teenage boy asks me for the keys to the car. "Dad", he says, "I just thought it was getting dirty, so I thought I'd take it to the car wash." Foolishly, I give over the keys. Six hours later, the tow truck brings the car back home, with smashed-in fender. Indeed, the car is clean -- my boy did wash it -- but then he spent the next five hours driving around town with his friends, chasing fast cars, faster girls, and drinking white lightning. His request to borrow the car for the purpose of washing it was made in bad faith.

Now that you understand clearly, I hope, the nature of your error, I'm sure you will not repeat it. Thank You! Have a nice day. — Xiong 熊 talk * 14:05, 2005 August 18 (UTC)

RM thumb
FPC process guidelines state:

''How to add your nomination ... Copy the following content into the new blank subpage... ...''

Of course, this fails, as the image in question has been blocked from display inline. I substituted a thumbnail created especially for the purpose, with appropriate caption.

Pharos removed the thumb with edit sum: as FPC (unlike the Autofellatio article) is not generally about autofellatio, I think an inline link is more appropriate

Of course, that justification is very poor. FPC isn't "about" birds or berries; it's about images; and obviously, nobody ought dare form an opinion about an image without seeing it. However, I'm willing to compromise, and I've allowed the removal. — Xiong 熊 talk * 14:39, 2005 August 18 (UTC)

Second removal
Nohat rm the FPC tag with edit sum: remove bogus {{FPC}.

This is offensively illegal; I properly nominated the image, and now it shall run its course, pass or fail. After the 2-day comment period, the respected user may choose to vote against FP status for this image -- and that is the extent of his privilege. — Xiong 熊 talk * 14:49, 2005 August 18 (UTC)

 * Your claims that this is a good faith nomination are transparently duplicitous. This image never has and never will have support to make it a featured picture and you know it. Nominating it to be a featured picture is just being controversial for the sake of controversy. There is no need for troublemakers like you to troll Wikipedia. Please spare us your pious grandiloquence and get back to making productive contributions to Wikipedia. Nohat 23:03, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The reason I removed the tag is because at the time, there was no corresponding entry on the FPC page. No entry on FPC page = bogus tag. Nohat 23:08, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


text:
Max Noether

Max Noether (24 September 1844 – 13 December 1921) was a German mathematician who worked on algebraic geometry and the theory of algebraic functions. He has been called "one of the finest mathematicians of the nineteenth century". He was the father of Emmy Noether.

Biography
Max Noether was born in Mannheim in 1844, to a Jewish family of wealthy wholesale hardware dealers. His grandfather, Elias Samuel, had started the business in Bruchsal in 1797. In 1809 the Grand Duchy of Baden established a "Tolerance Edict", which assigned a hereditary surname to the male head of every Jewish family which did not already possess one. Thus the Samuels became the Noether family, and as part of this Christianization of names, their son Hertz (Max's father) became Hermann. Max was the third of five children Hermann had with his wife Amalia Würzburger.

At 14, Max contracted polio and was afflicted by its effects for the rest of his life. Through self-study, he learned advanced mathematics and entered the University of Heidelberg in 1865. He served on the faculty there for several years, then moved to the University of Erlangen in 1888. While there, he helped to found the field of algebraic geometry.

In 1880 he married Ida Amalia Kaufmann, the daughter of another wealthy Jewish merchant family. Two years later they had their first child, named Amalia ("Emmy") after her mother. Emmy Noether went on to become a central figure in abstract algebra. In 1883 they had a son named Alfred, who later studied chemistry before dying in 1918. Their third child, Fritz Noether, was born in 1884, and like Emmy, found prominence as a mathematician; he was executed in the Soviet Union in 1941. Little is known about their fourth child, Gustav Robert, born in 1889; he suffered from continual illness and died in 1928.

Noether served as an Ordinarius (full professor) at Erlangen for many years, and died there on 13 December 1921.

Work on algebraic geometry
Brill and Max Noether developed alternative proofs using algebraic methods for much of Riemann's work on Riemann surfaces. Brill–Noether theory went further by estimating the dimension of the space of maps of given degree d from an algebraic curve to projective space Pn. In birational geometry, Noether introduced the fundamental technique of blowing up in order to prove resolution of singularities for plane curves.

Noether made major contributions to the theory of algebraic surfaces. Noether's formula is the first case of the Riemann-Roch theorem for surfaces. The Noether inequality is one of the main restrictions on the possible discrete invariants of a surface. The Noether-Lefschetz theorem (proved by Lefschetz) says that the Picard group of a very general surface of degree at least 4 in P3 is generated by the restriction of the line bundle O(1).

Noether and Castelnuovo showed that the Cremona group of birational automorphisms of the complex projective plane is generated by the "quadratic transformation"

 * [x,y,z] ↦ [1/x, 1/y, 1/z]

together with the group PGL(3,C) of automorphisms of P2. Even today, no explicit generators are known for the group of birational automorphisms of P3.

title: Max Noether


text:
Paul Dobson (actor)

Paul Dobson is a British-born Canadian voice actor who works for various studios in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. He performed the voices of Naraku and Myoga from Inuyasha, Doctor Doom from Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes, Juggernaut from X-Men: Evolution, Happosai from Ranma ½, Enzo Matrix from ReBoot, Folken Fanel from the Ocean dub of Escaflowne, Zarbon from the Ocean dub of Dragon Ball Z, Graveheart from Shadow Raiders, various characters from several Transformers series (Beast Machines, Armada, Energon and Cybertron), Moo from Monster Rancher, Graham Aker from Mobile Suit Gundam 00 series, Sensei Wu from Lego Ninjago: Masters of Spinjitzu and various voices in Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War video game series.

Personal life
Paul Dobson is the second of the three Dobson brothers. His older brother Michael Dobson  and younger brother Brian Dobson are also voice actors.

title: Paul Dobson (actor)


text:
User:Plamoni

Biography Informaion
Name:  Pete Lamonica Location:  St. Louis, Missouri Education:  B.S. - Computer Science, Illinois State University (2007)

Since graduating college with a degree in Computer Science, Pete has worked in the telecommunications industry as a programmer/IT expert for a large telecom company. His interests include computers, juggling, Rubik's Cubes, and other geeky and nerdy hobbies.

Article Contributions
Illinois State University

title: User:Plamoni


text:
The John Larroquette Show

The John Larroquette Show is an American sitcom television series that was created by Don Reo for NBC. The John Larroquette Show was a star vehicle for John Larroquette following his run as Dan Fielding on Night Court. The series takes place in a seedy bus terminal in St. Louis, Missouri, and originally focused on the somewhat broken people who worked the night shift, and in particular, the lead character's battle with alcoholism. The series was produced by Reo's Impact Zone Productions, Larroquette's Port Street Films and Witt/Thomas Productions in association with Warner Bros. Television.

It premiered on September 2, 1993 and ended on October 30, 1996, with a total of 84 episodes over the course of four seasons, although six of those episodes were never aired. NBC canceled the series after airing only six episodes in season four.

Plot
John Hemingway, recovering alcoholic, has been appointed to the role of night shift manager of the St. Louis bus depot. He must deal not only with the intricacies of keeping the station running smoothly, but also the employees and other personalities who frequent the station, all while dealing with his own demons. This was highlighted in the first episode, with a running gag of every character offering to buy him a drink upon his meeting them.

Most of the first season dealt with John's attempts to stay sober, with episodes representing each of the AA program's Twelve Steps. John constantly struggled to maintain control of the station, with regular conflicts with his secretary, Mahalia, the janitor, Heavy Gene, and most strongly with sandwich bar attendant Dexter, who had been turned down for the position to which John was appointed. Adding sexual tension to John's life was high class escort Carly, who was a friend of Dexter's.

Beginning with the second season, Hemingway (and the entire cast) changed from the night shift to the daytime hours, and the alcoholism sub-plot was de-emphasized.

Cast
The show was unusual for occasionally addressing issues of race through a multiracial cast, unlike most American sitcoms in the 1990s.

 * John Larroquette as John Hemingway
 * Liz Torres as Mahalia Sanchez, John's secretary
 * Gigi Rice as Carly Watkins, a high class escort and friend of Dexter's
 * Daryl "Chill" Mitchell as Dexter Walker, the depot's sandwich bar attendant and John's rival
 * Chi McBride as Heavy Gene, a janitor at the depot
 * Lenny Clarke as Officer Adam Hampton
 * Elizabeth Berridge as Officer Eve Eggers
 * Alison La Placa as Catherine Merrick (1994–1996)
 * John F. O'Donohue as Max Dumas (1993–1994)
 * Bill Morey as Oscar (1994–1996)
 * Jazzmun as Pat (occasional, 1993–1995)

Recurring role

 * David Crosby as Chester, John's AA sponsor.
 * Omri Katz as Tony Hemingway, John's son. Katz would be replaced in an unaired fourth-season episode with Ryan Reynolds.
 * Mayim Bialik as Rachel, John's daughter
 * Ted McGinley as Karl Reese, Carly's boyfriend and future husband in real life

Over the course of its run, the show also featured cameos from a number of celebrities. Betty White, Rue McClanahan and Estelle Getty played themselves in a Golden Girls/Sunset Boulevard inspired episode. Fellow Night Court actors Harry Anderson, Charles Robinson and Marsha Warfield each appeared in an episode. David Cassidy, who composed the theme song used for the show's first two seasons, fell down drunk in the bus station near the end of the second season. June Lockhart and Richard Mulligan appeared in separate episodes as John's parents. Boyz II Men appeared in a 1994 episode that saw their tour bus break down at John's station. Joe Pesci, Richard S. "Kinky" Friedman, Dennis Miller, George Hamilton and Ray Charles also appeared playing themselves in episodes.

Other notable guest appearances included Bobcat Goldthwait, Matthew Perry, Dick Martin, Phil Hartman, Rip Torn, Jane Lynch, Tim Daly, Marion Ross, Donna Mills, Art LaFleur, Joey Lawrence, Molly Shannon, Philip Baker Hall, Len Lesser, Deezer D, Cheryl Tiegs, Dinah Manoff and Mila Kunis.

History
Despite receiving early favorable critical reviews,  the first season finished 96th overall, in part due to its time slot opposing Roseanne (which was fourth overall during the same season). By Larroquette's own admission, though, the show's first season wasn't prime-time material due to its dark nature – at least not for network television.

The show faced cancellation, until Larroquette requested the chance to retool the series, which NBC granted. Much of the dark humor was removed, for a more "toned-down" feel. The sets were brighter, and the cast were transferred from the night shift to day. John's dingy bed-sit was traded for a nice apartment. Oscar, the old bum who lived in one of the bus station phone booths, was cleaned up and became a shoeshine, and the prostitute character Carly (Gigi Rice) went "straight" – buying the bar and becoming a model citizen. The producers also gave John a wholesome romantic interest in the form of nurse Catherine Merrick, played by Alison La Placa. The series continued in this more prime-time-friendly format for two more years.

Decline and cancellation
In an attempt to boost the third season opener, but without increasing the budget, it featured a faux guest appearance by Kelsey Grammer as Dr. Frasier Crane, whom John calls for advice (not knowing he is on Frasier's live radio program). Ratings did not improve, however. John and Carly got married in the third-season finale while Catherine was seemingly pregnant with John's child. It was revealed that Catherine was experiencing a phantom pregnancy and left the show. The John Larroquette Show was cancelled abruptly one month into its fourth season, the last episode airing on October 30, 1996, showing John and Officer Eggers on a date at a Halloween party. Six episodes remained unaired until being shown on the USA Network years later.

Production
The series was originally to be called Crossroads; however, NBC wished to make the most of John Larroquette's popularity from his previous role on Night Court, and insisted on naming the show after him.

The show was videotaped, but processed by NBC to make it look like it was recorded on film. Reruns on other networks had the show in its original videotaped format.

Theme song
The series' theme song, "The Skrewy St. Louis Blues", is a bluesy tune performed by David Cassidy on acoustic guitar with a scat vocal. A version of the performance lasting approximately one minute was used in the opening and closing sequences of the show during its first season. A much shorter edit of the song (lasting less than ten seconds) was heard only during the opening logo during the later seasons. An upbeat, jazzy instrumental tune was occasionally used for the closing theme in seasons three and four.

Steve Cochran, a former radio host on WGN Radio in Chicago, used the Cassidy song as the theme music for his own radio program up until he was fired.

Critical reception
The Los Angeles Times once referred to the series as "sitcom noir".

The show was nominated and won several technical awards over its four-year run, and Larroquette was nominated in 1994 for Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Comedy Series. Guest star Betty White won the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actress in a Comedy Series in 1996 for her appearance in the Season 3 episode "Here We Go Again".

Liz Torres, also nominated in 1994 for the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Comedy Series, won the NCLR/ALMA Award for Outstanding Individual Performance in a Comedy Series in 1996 for her role in the series. She would also win a Nosotros Golden Eagle Award for Outstanding Actress in a Television Series in 1997.

Thomas Pynchon
After the series made several references to reclusive novelist Thomas Pynchon's work and reputation, Pynchon (through his agent) reportedly contacted the series' producers to offer suggestions and corrections. When a local Pynchon sighting became a major plot point in a 1994 episode of the series, Pynchon was sent the script for his approval; as well as providing the title of a fictitious work to be used in one episode ("Pandemonium of the Sun"), the novelist apparently vetoed a final scene that called for an extra playing him to be filmed from behind, walking away from the shot. Pynchon also insisted that it should be specifically mentioned in the episode that Pynchon was seen wearing a T-shirt showing psychedelic-rock musician Roky Erickson. According to the Los Angeles Times, this spurred an increase in sales of Erickson's albums.

title: The John Larroquette Show


text:
Talk:Melodic death metal

A more detailed mention of the relationship between Gothenburg Metal and Melodic Metalcore
plz add more information exploring the relationship between the above two genres.

1)The first american band that started mixing gothenburg with hardcore?

2)How Melodic Metalcore in turn Influenced the New sound of InFlames?

3)which band was more influential "At the Gates" or "Old In Flames"?

4)What triggered the beginning of this new style of metal in the first place? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.22.83 (talk) 15:20, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Black Metal's influence on Melodic Death Metal
The intro to the article says "Melodic death metal (also referred to as melodeath) is a subgenre of death metal which combines the melody of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal with the intensity of death metal." People always seem to ignore the obvious influence that Black Metal has had on Melodic Death Metal. Now, I'm expecting many of you will deny this - discussions of musical genres are always tainted by subjectivity. For this reason I have written a comprehensive argument below, divided into two main points:

1) A friend once e-mailed me a metal family tree, which was drawn up by Eric LeStrade. I believe that this guy actually has a Phd in metal. The tree was copyright 2000-2001 and is the most comprehensive metal family tree that I have ever seen (far better than the one by Sam Dunn). The original tree from 2000-2001 was located at: http://membres.lycos.fr/ericlestrade/.

I'm not sure if it is still there - I can't understand French. A more recent, but less comprehensive copy of the tree is visible at: orizuka.free.fr/index.php/dlm/4/15.

Both trees show Melodic Death Metal as evolving from three genres - Old School Swedish Death Metal, NWOBHM and Black Metal. Like I said, this guy has studied metal at the highest level possible. He is definitely a reputable source.

2) If you're still confused then check out the material for yourself. While higher pitched thrash vocals are sometimes heard in early Death Metal (e.g. Death), the vast majority of normal Death Metal has deep or mid pitched vocals (e.g. Cannibal Corpse, Six Feet Under, Entombed), while Black Metal has mid or high pitched vocals (e.g. Dissection, Mayhem, Rotting Christ). Now listen to At The Gates' "Terminal Spirit Disease" album. Those vocals are definitely higher pitched than many Black Metal bands. And it's not just the vocals either. Later At The Gates, early Dark Tranquillity and early Dissection all have similar beautiful-yet-ugly melodic stylings. This sound incorporates melodic leads, tremolo picking and prominent use of the snare drum (amongst other things). Over time Black Metal and Melodic Death Metal have grown apart, but today's Melodic Death bands still tend to employ medium-high pitched vocals.

Having said this, I think Black Metal deserves a mention in this article, even if it's only a brief mention in the introductory sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.217.143 (talk) 13:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Not to agree or disagree, but I see no mention of MeloDeath in the first article (in the English version, at least, though I may be reading it wrong) and the second link doesn't work. Just to let you know.

== Scandinavian death metal, Gothenburg Metal, and Melodic Death Metal are all the same thing and should be merged. It's ridiculous to give melodic death bands a different name simply because they're from scandinavia.==
 * Well, imo, we need a regional referance to Gothenburg metal not just Melodic Metal. It is as important as Florida Death or Bay Area Thrash.  I do agree that Scandivian Death isn't as a tightly defined and regional.  Yet the Gothenburg Sound did define early Melodic Death as much as Bay Area defined early Thrash. Atechi23:36 24 June 2006
 * No, this is a ridiculous notion. Melodic Death Metal (or Gothenburg Death Metal) is not the same thing as Scandinavian Death Metal (or Stockholm Death Metal). Listen to Dismember, Entombed and Grave then listen to Dark Tranquillity, In Flames and Arch Enemy, the former are more Death Metal with Melody rather than full blown Melodic Death Metal and there are clear differences in arangements and compositional styles. Of course it should be stressed that these styles only derive their names from their point of origin and are not geographicaly exclusive, for instance Fleshcrawl are a good example of Stockholm Death Metal inspite of being German wheras Detonation are certainly a Gothenburg death Metal band even though they are from Holland.

 * If anything, the Gothenburg scene (and the style that later solidified from bands emulating that scene) should get its own section within the page, but it's a sub-genre of a sub-genre, at best. Really, it's a time and a place more than a style in its own right.  --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Both those article are too short. Just because those genres sound slightly different doesn't mean they need their own page. Masonpw (talk) 17:41, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Old-School Gothenburg Metal is very different from what we currently hear from these so-called contemporary Melodic Death Metal bands. Most of the pioneering MDM bands save Dark Tranquillity are now defunct or no longer play Gothenburg Metal. Examples of true Gothenburg metal are At the Gates' Terminal Spirit Disease and SotS (in contrast to their earlier avant-garde baroque death metal), In Flames' Lunar Strain right up to Clayman, All of Dark Tranquillity, and a few other less-well known bands like Edge of Sanity, Gardenian, Insomnium, Dimension Zero and so on. Other releases such as Carcass' Heartwork and Dissection's Reinkaos are also indeed Gothenburg Metal, and although some of their work does indeed precede the Big Three in chronology, I would throw caution to the winds before labelling them as the genre's "true pioneers", as if it were really important in the first place. For one they were one-off releases that were a dramatic change in style from their classic sounds, and two they did not popularise the genre as widely as the Big Three have done. Someone should give them mention but edit all those extraneous histories out that have just been added in. Examples of MDM today can be uhh...Disharmonia Mundi, Sonic Syndicate, Nightrage's more recent work, Soilwork, etc. Generally almost any band that claims to play authentic MDM today is false save Dark Tranquillity. If you listen to the genre a lot you'll understand where I am coming from. Written 3rd April 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Negi3 (talk • contribs) 15:32, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

The Black Dahlia Murder are not melodic death metal
They clearly flow in the metalcore vein for their fairly simple hardcore-fused song structures and breakdowns; while they have opened for bands that could easily pass as death metal or melodic death metal, that does not make them one. This band being on the list makes equal sense as about a zillion other bands being on the list that sound just like them (As I Lay Dying, The Red Chord, The Red Death, Between The Eyes of the Dead, etc.) but obviously belong in the metalcore/hardcore category. Danteferno 12:40, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

This is a very old discussion of what label to put on a given band; this is certainly non-trivial for most bands especially in the crossover styles and it's typically hated by the bands themself. There just isn't a checklist that you can use to determine which band belongs in what category and hence this discussion will always be POV. Spearhead 16:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see why The Black Dahlia Murder are not melodic death metal. Ok they have hardcore song structures, but why does that make them not melodic death?  What about bands like Light This City, and some Deceased (especially As The Wierd Travel On)?  DanielAbrams

- Black Dahlia is definitely a band that would consider themselves melodic death, but they do seem to have some metalcorey influences. I would say Black Dahlia is way more melodic death metal than "metalcore". You can see the difinitive structure of simple melodic death, especially in their Unhallowed album.

-The Black Dahlia Murder Is far from metalcore in many obvious ways-They DONT utilize breakdowns in their music, They DO incorporate melodic and harmonious riffing and solos, they have lots of drum blasting (blast beats if you will), no accenting or harmonious vocals (As I Lay Dying, Bleeding Through, Killswitch Engage, etc.), and their lyrical basis is structured around many Death Metal related aspects such as violence, gore, death, disease, necrophillia, etc. Dispute if you must, but I insist that The Black Dahlia Murder be referenced as a Melodic Death Metal Band based on their sound, song structure, and lyrical content. -Black Dahlia is NOT Metalcore. Sure they look like Metalcore/Hardcore kids but thats not what they play. And you should probobly listen to them a little more before you say thing like "they use breakdowns" because they don't. They ARE Melodic Death. -I very much agree with the last 2. People try to label them as metalcore only because they happen to have a large "scene" following. I don't mind that too much, because of the plain fact they destroy.

The Black Dahlia Murder is not Metalcore. How can you even say that! They don't use breakdowns period. Are you stupid. They are one of the most hardcore metal bands today and you try to label them under Metalcore. That band was an influece to me all of my life from when I first heard them. They are one of the reasons I started my band in the first place. also, our first cd should come out in 2012. BDM's music sounds like "slaugher of the soul" album by the At the Gates.Then there are bands like Unearth that sound like Inflames.Heartcrusher (talk) 07:53, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Opeth
Any reason they (weren't) listed?

 * Because they have absolutely nothing to do with melodic death metal
 * Melodic death metal (often referred to as melodeath) is generally considered an offshoot of death metal. The subgenre contains more melodic guitar riffs and solos, which are sometimes acoustic, and also occasional 'clean' singing as opposed to traditional death grunt vocals.

 * Now, what there conflicts with Opeth's music?

Opeth is in every way melodic death metal, they meet every criteria (with the exception of damnation), they should be added.

The Damnation album is not melodic death metal it's prog rock, i edited the page to reflect that but it was deleted. i dont know what there is to dispute about that, please give a reason whoever did. it should read:

"Opeth (except the Damnation album)"

 * I didnt edit it, however it looks scruffy. At what point in their discography did they do this Damnation album?

scruffy as it may be it seems to be the format of every other circumstance where a band has albums of different genres that ive seen. it was released in 2003 as the second part of the deliverance/damnation recordings. damnation is composed entirely of clean vocals, with no heavy riffs whatsoever, for the purpose of contrasting with the Deliverance album which was released in 2002 and featured Opeths typical death metal stylings.

What? Opeth are pretty melodic... in fact, they're progressive melodic death metal, if you want to get all genrenazi about it. But yeah.

-I agree, Why don't we just put them in 2 catagories. Melodic Death Metal and Progressive Metal.
 * 1) REDIRECT The real gener we should classefy Opeth is:Classical Doom Death Metal....that's to be very specific,but if we want to give it by one word ,it should be EXTREME Metal...Melodic Death has nothing to do with Opeth

I'm sorry, but if you seriously think Opeth are melodic death metal then you know nothing about music. Opeth are progressive metal with some death vocals thrown in, and if you knew the fundamentals of genre classification you would know that vocal style does not define genre.

Seconded on that - literally hundreds of bands play music that has melody and takes influence from death metal; few of those are "melodic death metal" bands. Opeth is squarely rooted in progressive death metal, and as such uses plenty of melody in their music - doesn't make them melodic death. --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Amon Amarth are not melodic death metal
They are viking metal. It might seem to make sense to put them in melodic death metal but if you compare them with someone like Children of Bodom or In Flames (older in flames) its clearly not their style. They are closer to normal death.
 * Just because Amon Amarth have lyrics about Viking/Norse themes doesn't necessarily mean they're Viking metal. Viking metal is a specific sub-genre of black metal. They're more aggressive than Children Of Bodom and In Flames, but I'd still say they're melodic death metal, not death metal.

- Amon Amarth is absolutely melodic death. They aren't like old Arch Enemy or At the Gates or anything like that, but just because they have Norse/Viking lyrics doen't make them a "Viking Metal" band. 80% of Viking Metal bands are either melodic death, black metal, or power metal. Amon Amarth is definitely the melodic death of the three.

Amarth was founded 1992, only two years after At The Gates.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.44.254 (talk) 13:39, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

-If I may make a point, just because a band has a theme doesn't mean it should instantly become the setting for a subgenre. Would you consider Nile an "egyptian death metal" band? Especially when not a single member is egyptian? Same applies to Cradle Of Filth (I know they aren't Melodic Death but they suit my example). Should Cradle be labled a "Vampiric Black Metal" band? Amon Amarth especially should not spawn any sort of subgenre, especially because Vikings don't even exist anymore.

-You can't really catergorise bands as being viking metal: viking metal is more about the lyrics and themes than actual music. Amon Amarth are definately melodic death metal. Anything vaguely metally with viking themes can be called viking metal, but that is not the type of music it is.

-Viking Metal isn't a fucking genre.
 * Well, i do agree that Viking Metal isn't really a genre. It's more like a tag you could set an artist on, which means some kind of death/black/folk which has vikings/paganism in it... Just look it up on the viking metal article instead - "Viking metal is a cross-genre reference usually used to describe the lyrical and thematic elements of bands rather than the music itself". Instead of calling Amon Amarth Viking Metal, we should just call them Melodic Death Metal, because that is exactly what it is. It's also Viking Metal. Ran4 16:38, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

They are melodic death metal. Just because they sing about vikings doesn't mean they aren't. Masonpw (talk) 17:45, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Viking is a lyrical theme, not a musical genre. They are death metal which is melodic, which means they are melodic death metal. Melodeath doesn't have to be Gothenburg in its sound, any death metal which is very melodic like Amon Amarth is melodic death metal. That's what the freakin' name suggests anyway.

Carcass are not melodic death metal
Carcass are the progenitors of the grindcore, especially goregrind, sound, and are in no way a melodic death metal band. Some of their later releases moved to a "traditional" heavy metal sound which is, granted, more melodic, but not at all melodic death metal.

Go listen to Heartwork, then come back here and say they aren't partly melodeath. That album was one of the first melodeath-esque records ever. Essentially paving the way for other bands. Ladysway1985

 * Heartwork is definately melodic death and should be added. DanielAbrams
 * Carcass was originally grindcore, but you can't deny that Heartwork is melodeth. I just edited the page to say that they made the first melodeth album, but other bands sometimes get the credit for it. Masonpw (talk) 17:42, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I'd argue that Dark Tranquillity's Skydancer was the first melodeath album, which was released one month before Heartwork. Ampersand55 (talk) 18:13, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

-Carcass is Grindcore AND Melodic Death. They started Grindcore and ended Melodic Death. How is there later work "Traditional"? It has harsh vocals and blast beats.

Carcass "is" broken up, is what they is. ;) They innovated in both (largely unrelated) styles, however at the end of their career they were pretty squarely in the (nascent) melodic death camp.  --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Children Of Bodom
Don't you think Children Of Bodom should be added to the list?
 * CoB use fetch most of their influence from Power Metal and Black Metal. If you check the composition of their music, and of the bands lyrical themes. They share very little connection with Death Metal, bar minor use of Death Metal esque parts in riffs, in some songs. Thus, they dont warrant a place here. Leyasu 06:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Why does CoB not belong if their page says that they play melodic death metal? Some sort consensus ought to be reached on this, because right now there's a difference that's sort of confusing. RufusX 01:19, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Please do not go around distorting information. The article says they play a HYBRID genre, which is true. --Sn0wflake 02:59, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

 * What they play Rufus, is a somewhat mix of Power Metal and Symphonic Black Metal. Added is minor Death Metal influence. Thank you however for pointing this problem out, im sure i or another will adress this problem shortly. Leyasu 05:18, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Symphonic black metal? What does Children of Bodom have in their style apart from keyboards (which do not even use symphonic arrangements) that in any way relates to that genre? --Sn0wflake 06:41, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

When i wrote that i was half distracted, i meant to say Melodic Black Metal. Thus is the power of my beautifull but devious lady Hannah for you. Leyasu 07:15, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * My apologies for the Bodom page - it was late and I was edit happy. This however is a full on contradiction, so someone who feels more authorative about it should probably make fixes instead of silly newbies... Apologies! Apologies! RufusX 09:27, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

We all make mistakes, dont worry about it. Leyasu 09:54, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Perhaps there should be a note on the page saying something about why CoB doesn't belong, along with a note to look at this talk page.  I know I didn't have enough sense to read this before I went around editing, and this all seems like a problem that wouldn't take much to prevent... RufusX 23:56, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

 * If someone who knows how to put notes in the article, that dont appear on the article page, would care to do so, your proposed soloution would work easily. Leyasu 09:06, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Children of Bodom are very easy to classify, I don't see the confusion :) They're just a hybrid (as stated previously) of Melodic Power Metal and Speed Metal. Taking into a count their past albums, and most especially their latest album, they have absolutely nothing to do with any kind of Death Metal. Ladysway1985 05:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with Ladysway, although COB's lyrical content can sometimes show traces of death influences, their music is clearly Melodic Power/Speed, and it's the lyrics and especially Alexi Laiho's harsh vocals that have probably lead to all the controversey. Dying2live 08:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)dying2live

 * You guys are breaking down this stuff way too much. if children of bodom is anything, they are speed metal and that's it. they aren't melodic death metal at all. if they are then what is opeth? they sound nothing like each other, and opeth should be (and is to me) the band in which other bands are measured when it comes to classifying a band as melodic death metal.

I go by what Encyclopedia Metallum says. The guys behind it have been in the metal scene for nearly 20 years now, they know what they're talking about. And Encyclopedia Metallum deems them to be "Power/Speed Metal with Harsh Vocals", although you cannot deny that the earlier material (particularly Hatebreeder) were at least influenced by melodeath. Lartsa 20:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Children Of Bodom are a Melodic Death Metal band. Let's review the styles shall we?
 * Power metal: Yes they have lots of melody and their music is more melodic than harmonic. Unlike In Flames and Arch Enemy the entwining 'Gothenburg' dual guitars aren't so prominent, since Alexi Laiho plays mostly solos all the time. They also make frequent use of keyboards.
 * Melodic Death: They have death vocals. Power metal mainly has clean vocals. Death vocals are a key element for Death Metal or Melodic Death Metal. The lyrics aren't related to fantasy/epic battles etc which is present in power metal. Instead the lyrics are focused on death and the grim reaper. The music is a lot heavier than power metal albums, especially the last two albums. And they have a lot of double bass drumming.
 * I don't think they have any relation to black metal, not even Symphonic Black. None of their music has a symphony playing with it. Only the keyboards give it their symphonic-esque sound. And the lyrics aren't black metal related, and the vocals are growling, not shrieking. In Flames 18:19, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Incorrect. Vocal style has nothing to do with a bands musical classicfication, that would mean that almost all Funeral Doom bands play Death Metal. This would also make Necrophobic a Black Metal band, disqualify Arch Enemy from being anything more than a Thrash Metal band, put Dissection soley into the Black metal catagory etc etc. Going on lyrical themes then Amon Amarth are a viking Metal band Deicide are Black metal, Mayhem's early works would be Death Metal... forgive me but that is absurd. With CoB I think the best thing to do would be to call them Extreme Power Metal, simply because they are basically a power metal band with harsh vocals and some extreme elements.

 * CoB is a mixture of Extreme Power Metal, with influences from Black- and Melodic Death Metal.DJLarZ 13:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

he shrieks. Actually i've never heard of anything growled from cob. They are power metal with shrieking vocals.
 * In Flames you are really wrong. I dont never considered laiho's voclas to growls

 * Uh, I really think CoB is melodic death. And Ladysway1985 - Melodic power metal? Haha, wouldn't "melodic" be an requirement in power metal? I certainly doesn't know any non-melodic power metal bands. I can't see how anyone would call CoB Black Metal, it just doesn't have those elements.

 * CoB isn't melodeath. Just listen to it, it sounds nothing like melodeath. XXMurderSoulXx 08:05, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Of course vocal style has to do with a bands musical classicfication, did you ever listen to a reggae song where is growled? Every style of music has its trademarks, and the vocal style is one of the most important ones. Especially for Power Metal - because its one of the genres of metal where it isn't growled and shouted. The expression "power metal with harsh vocal" is a joke and a contradiction in terms. In fact, there is also no genre called "Extreme Power Metal", this is a denomination made by the music industry for reasons of merchandising... Also Alexi Laiho said, they don't want to be called as Power Metal: http://www.metalunderground.com/interviews/details.cfm?newsid=16865

Children of Bodom aren't "melodic death metal" they should be removed, end of story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.193.187.76 (talk) 19:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Notable bands?
How can a band like Beyond Shadows stand amongst notable bands when they have only ever released a single album? That doesn't make them very noticable i my book...

Not noticable? You find me another melodic death metal band in the musical cesspool of NYC, albeit one that is as good as Beyond Shadows.

They released their second full length album, Escape From Reality, earlier this year. There is also reputed to be a special edition of this album to be released with a few bonus tracks sometime in the near future. It's really quality over quantity anyway. Beyond Shadows is one of a very few true melodic death metal bands from the USA... most American stuff is more metalcore or mainstream oriented.

Scar Symmetry please. They are an awesome, rising star band.

Children Of Bodom are Extreme Metal band......... and a little Melodeath —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.82.28.110 (talk) 21:48, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Arch Enemy?
Are they clear to add to the list?

 * I wound not classify Arch Enemy as melodic death, especially their old music.

 * Arch Enemy is definitely Melodic Death Metal. Their old stuff (except maybe Black Earth) included.

 * Arch Enemy is without doubt melodic death metal, and in my personal opinion one of the greatest examples of it. In fact Michael Amott was one of the pioneers of the melodic death metal scene of Sweden, I am surprised why there is any confusion to this. Dying2live 08:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)dying2live

- I can't even understand why you would even ask this. Arch Enemy is CLEARLY a melodic death band. ESPECIALLY their older tunes. This shouldn't even be discussed.

I personally don't listen to them that much, and haven't heard much of their music. But i have listened to their newest music and despite the olden days they are clearly heading in a new direction with their music, take Nemesis for instance they have a small section of the song with clean and melodic music, but does the lead singer calm down and actually use her clean vocals on the music? no, i think they're death metal

Same with In Flames, his voice doesn't "calm down" in every song either. It's wrong to generalize it like that.

-Are you kidding me? Arch Enemy is 100% a Melodic Death Metal band! I say this being a HUGE fan and being familiar with all of there work. Sure maybe they like to get a bit soft on the newer stuff but its still very much Melodic Death. They're just sprinkling some Progressive Metal on top now days.

"Black Earth" is clearly Melodic death, like a mix of "Clandestine" and "Heartwork"

More Asterisks
I have added some more asterisks to both Hypocrisy and Wintersun. Below is my reasoning for both:

 * Hypocrisy: Peter Tätgren's vocal style, at least in the earlier albums (particularly Catch 22) is more black metal in style. Also, with the addition of Horgh (from Immortal) playing drums on Virus, the sound is still fairly influenced by black metal. They have also recently lost some melodic-ness (evident on Virus), I would even go so far as to call them Blackened Death Metal (though not in the same vein as Behemoth or Zyklon, for example.)

 * Wintersun: To be honest, I do not agree with the placing of Wintersun in this category at all. I would agree if the sentiment was that Jari Maenpaa drew some influences from melodeath ("Beyond the Dark Sun", et al), but to me it still sound like a homologation of black and death, also with some folk influences.

I do, however, feel that this strenuous categorisation is a little too overpowering... who cares really, just enjoy the music! Lartsa 20:44, 23 May 2006 (UTC), Long time metalhead...

Cleaning Up
I've just deleted the list of bands that do not have any articles. I've also deleted Opeth off the list - they don't relate to Melodic Death Metal at all. Opeth are progressive death metal, with lots of acoustics and jazz influences. Except for Damnation, which is prog rock (however one album doesn't change the bands genre). And I've also deleted Death. Although they have their melodic moments they are clearly just Death Metal. Please correct this if I'm wrong In Flames 19:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

BATHORY?
Bathory is not melodic death metal by any reasonable definition. Bathory was one of the forerunners of black metal. --GreatCthulhu 13:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Gothenburg Metal
I've just deleted Gothenburg Metal from the See Also list, since it redirects to Melodic Death Metal.Punainen Nörtti 20:35, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Darkest Hour
I've noticed there have been repeated attempts on this page to list Darkest Hour as a Melodic Death Metal band, I do believe it is justified, especially in their earlier work, their first EP is still part of their history and sounds very similar to Arch Enemy. In addition to that, Hidden Hands of a Sadist Nation was produced by Fredrik Nordstrom who has produced many well known Melodic Death Metal albums and this may show the shift in direction towards Melodeath, for this reason I am adding them to the list. Any objections? 1607m4dsk1llz 19:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Ya know, nevermind that last statement, after serious expansion of musical tastes the last 2 months Darkest Hour is most certainly metalcore, I've also come to the conclustion that any melodic death metal kicks the shit out of metalcore, sorry for being an uneducated ass - 1607m4dsk1llz 19:25, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Well I believe they are melodic death metal. It was hinted a little bit on their first 2 full lenghts but seem to display more melodic death influences for Hidden Hands, Undoing Ruin, and Deliver Us while still retaining some metalcore traits. Unless there is a strong source, they will not be as cited as melodic death metal but only metalcore. NaotoATG 04:15, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Killswitch Engage
I've added Killswitch Engage to the list. They are without a twitch of a doubt melodic death metal. Check their wikipedia article where it says their music is heavily influenced by Gothenburg music scene. -- Nemsen 5:34 pm PST July 13, 2006

-Killswitch as melodeath?!?!?!?!? sorry man, thats just funny

- They are Metalcore, a very GENERIC and STEROTYPICAL one. Learn fucking music people, all their music is simple breakdowns and two-step beats.

-Killswitch engage is indeed a typical metalcore outfit, but one that heavily borrows from swedish melodic death, so one could list this as a melodic death metal band.

-And I removed it form the list, Killswitch Engage are Metalcore, you don't have to be from Sweden etc. Soilwork prove that with their older albums.

- Killswitch Engage are a Metalcore band and honestly even thinking of classifying them into Melodic Death is amazingly funny, even to have the thought one should have checked the common charateristics of the Genre and this band, its obvious.

Killswitch is metalcore regardless of where they are from. PERIOD! to say they are Melodic Death Metal is to be totally ignorant of what that genre is.

They're certainly considered metalcore here in Massachusetts (where they're from). --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

They are metalcore. Have you ever heard melodic death metal? Masonpw (talk) 17:48, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

perhaps the problem is that not all bands songs fit into one genre
it seems that a lot of people are assuming that all bands can be fit within one genre. quite often a band will produce songs that fit within one genre, whilst at other times producing songs that fit within other genres. now if a band has ann album comprised of

3 songs that are straightforward melodic death, 4 songs that are mostly melodeath with a hardcore breakdown and a song with a melodeath verse structure, a black metal breakdown, a transitions between all parts that are straightforward FETO era napalm death-esque grindcore

then what are you going to call them, blackened melodeathcore with a lemony twist of grind?

when an artist is even remotely eclectic and/or innovative (and not just pounding out safe, by the numbers genre-records based on established/accepted/commonly agreed upon genre phrasings and techniques), it becomes both misleading and dishonest to attempt to describe them with a single genre name, even if their music is mostly comprised of that style.

on the other end of the spectrum it becomes pointless to just begin adding more and more genre tags together. eventually so many styles that people consider completly dis-similar are juxtaposed in such a manner that doesn't really convey any real information.

one benefit that including a location into the name of a genre has is to differentiate even the minor variances that occur between similar sounds developing in different locations. adding a place name also often infers a time period when the music was created, allowing the listener to put the music into better historical context.

It is also not uncommon for a band to evolve towards a different genre throughout their carreer. For instance: Acturus' debut album "Aspera Hiems Symfonia" was an avant garde black metal album. But by the time of third album "The Sham Mirrors" it was simply impossible to describe them as black metal. Opeths acoustic "Damnation" was also a far cry from al their other album. therefore, one can better pigeonhole an album, instead of an entire band.

borknagar
would borknagar classify as melodic death? the vocals were very death when they started; and they just slowly mixed in some cleaner vocals. Their music still pertains to elements of melodic death metal too?

No, absolutely not, no way, you are confusing Black Metal with Death Metal. I cannot think of a single riff that would even come close to Melodeath on any of Borknagar's albums.

If anything, they started off as folk-influenced black metal and veered over into folk-influenced progressive metal. (And then, of course, the acoustic record.) Not much real DM influence in any of their catalog. --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Notable bands
Do we really need that many notable bands? A lot of them are not really even all that notable (and some of them not even melodic death metal at all). Is this section supposed to be a list of influential melodic death metal bands or a list of all (melodic) death metal bands ever? - Quirk 06:56, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I seems like lists of notable or key artists in other metal articles get often vandalised by adding ppl adding their favourite band to the list. I guess the most important ones should be in the text anyway and others can be in the list of melodic death metal bands or in a category. Spearhead 08:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Why is this sub-genre linked to "symphonic death metal"? "Gothenburg-metal" is irrelevant when a band is labelled "symphonic death metal", and the word's link takes you to this article... "Symphonic death metal" as I know it is simply; death metal combined with orchestral compositions, and has little or nothing to do with geography.

Sections of the article need to be reworked
The things that i found to be incorrect in this article:

"and also occasional 'clean' singing" Most melodic metal bands words are understandable, coherent screaming is more understandable than "clean singing"

However in recent years, the genre has gained somewhat of a popularity boost, acquiring a small underground status in the North American areas of Florida, New York, Tennessee. California, and some parts of Canada, especially among North American fans of the Scandinavian bands which still pioneer the genre today but are looking for some closer-to-home bands. I can not find any source that supports this claim, aspecifically since Tennessee has nearly nothing related to these states, this section should be removed in my opinion.

Melodic DM vs. BM?
What's the point of "Melodic Death Metal vs. Black Metal"? Death metal, too, comes from the same geographic area, but a subsection similarly titled is not in death metal. It should either be added to the DM article, or removed from this one. 209.158.255.169 20:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

 * No it stays, you have no idea how many people I have come across that think that blackened death metal and melodic black metal are the same thing as melodic death metal. They assume that if you play one of those genres you automatically play the other. A similar section should be added to the death metal article though. --Leon Sword 23:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Death Metal originated in North America —Preceding unsigned comment added by Free2game (talk • contribs) 21:33, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Tiamat
Why the hell Tiamat is not mentioned?? Astral Sleep is a one of the most significant, crucial and pioneering albums of the melodic death genre.
 * Eh? Because it's not melodeath?...
 * Tiamat has one melodic death metal album, whereas where you were trying to put them was with the likes of the pioneers of the genre who have put out several melodeath albums. Making mention of the album, perhaps, but it's not as influential as those bands were/are. -- Shatterzer0 17:31, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking
Last night, I was thinking about how maybe there could be a way to set up a project for this. Like a melodic death metal task force, that would list bands that need articles, articles that need cleaning and so on and so forth. We all watch this page for a reason, so why not try and make the genre we all like so much look good here on wikipedia? Some articles need a lot of work such as Dark Tranquillity, I mean 1989 - present, there should be alot of history there, but isn't it's just a stub. Even At the Gates is a stub and these guys pioneered this genre. What do you all think? -- Shatterzer0 17:45, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Carcass?
I hate to alarm anyone, but why does In Flames get credited as a Pioneer and Carcass just gets a brief mention, despite releasing the first Melodic Death Metal album? Camalus (talk) 05:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I have sources as well. http://www.maximummetal.com/columns/tales/37.asp for example.--Wick3dd (talk) 23:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

 * There are tons of sources on Carcass. Kameejl (Talk) 09:03, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Some books on google books:
 *
 * (scroll down)
 * Kameejl (Talk) 10:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

In Flames has a pretty dedicated fan pushing them as a "pioneer" over earlier innovators, so it's not surprising this keeps showing up. (See the talk page for them for examples.) --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

They're not even melodeath. They are just a rock band with some metalcore/nu-metal influence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Talvimiekka (talk • contribs) 18:53, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

 * What the hell are you talking about? Carcass or In Flames? Either way you're wrong. Carcass has been grindcore and melodic death metal for pretty much their whole career (not at the same time).  In Flames has no influence from mallcore.  They have over time become more and more akin to metalcore sadly, but IF started out as purely melodeath and they were pretty brutal when they started.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 20:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

The song December Flower by In Flames in a great example of their melodeath work and the solo shows the technicality they were capable of! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.197.189.168 (talk) 07:26, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Post-death?
Is post-death a legit term? I never heard of it and a google search doesn't lead me to clear examples of melodeath. I'll remove it.

I've often heard "Swedish metal" as synonym of Gothenborg metal. Shouldn't we add it? Kameejl (Talk) 12:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually when I searched post-death metal and I got reviewers, labels and the like using the term like the review sites metal observer and also progressive world using the term. So it seems to be correct. "Swedish metal" may create a problem because it may be Scandinavian death metal or more specifically any type of metal from Sweden. --CircafuciX (talk) 21:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

 * The term may exist (probably only meaning "what comes after death metal"). The results don't lead to clear examples of melodeath (f.e. metal observer is not referring to MDM). Kameejl (Talk) 18:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, "Swedish Metal" would more accurately be referring to the old-school Sunlight sound bands, such as Entombed, Grave, Dismember and Morbid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.107.235 (talk) 21:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

The Gothenburg sound
I noticed the section talking about the Gothernburg sound, but it does not talk about the sound itself at all. It only talks about the bands that created it. Not to mention, the Gothenburg sound should have a bigger section. Of all melodeath bands I think fans are most familiar with the Gothenburg sound, and it is extremely distinctive. We should talk about the sound itself i.e. the distincitve growling/ scratchy vocals and the harmonies used in the music with instruments as well as the guitar work, etc. etc.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 23:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * HELLO!? No one even responded to this statement!  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 22:24, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Extreme power metal
Im not quite sure, but isn't extreme power metal something closer to melodic death metal? There is no genre called "Extreme Power Metal", this is an invention of the music industry.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.112.28.234 (talk) 18:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Erh actually there IS

Clean vocals not relevant in this classification
Just a quick note - I keep seeing discussion as to whether or not this band or that band uses clean vocals. Not sure why - clean vocals in no way would signify that band is playing melodic death metal; if anything, using clean vox would be a step away from the genre. Not that there aren't bands that have used the technique (In Flames used some towards the end of their melodic death period), but it's not a trait of the genre. --DestroyYouAlot (talk) 21:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This is true. Clean vocal do indeed actually indicate a band being further from melodeath, not closer to it.  Real melodeath uses raspy death metal-like vocals.  Over time some bands began to incorporate clean vocals into their music.  Over even more time some melodeath bands (such as In Flames) have continued to dilute the Gothenburg melodeath sound to the point where it really isn't melodeath anymore.  Clean vocals don't indicate a melodeath band, they indicate the opposite.  Blizzard Beast  ''$ODIN' 22:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Do not confuse melodic death metal with death metal - or, like often is the case, do not think only amon amarth is melodeath. Use clean vocals in a death metal song would mean exactly a more melodic approach. Haxxiy (talk) 16:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Melodic Death and Power Metal
Apart from vocals what how else do they differ? I think Melodic death will have heavier guitars but is there anything else? I mean if you took an melodeath song and put clean vocals to it would it become power metal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.177.17 (talk) 06:30, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

No, it wouldn't. Haxxiy (talk) 16:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'd argue that Haxxiy. Power metal bands like Dreamevil use CGCFAD tuning. Power metal bands use all kinds of tuning so their guitar sound can be as "Heavy" as they want it to while still being power metal. But I would think the song would only become power metal if the vocals were clean AND high pitched. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.51.21.229 (talk) 16:54, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

The difference lies in song structures, riffs and compositions - not in tuning or vocals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.107.235 (talk) 21:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that seems like the best answer. You will probably find many people say that Melodic death metal is closer to power metal than standard death metal due to the melody involved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.117.211 (talk) 21:57, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Into Eternity Are Not Scandanavian
Into Eternity are from Canada (fair enough it's really cold there, but Scandinavia it ain't). Also, to use a relatively minor band as a definitive example of melodic death metal doesn't do the article's credibility any good, it just indicates that the author is probably quite a fan of this band (as am I). 211.28.141.67 (talk) 22:31, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Of course they're not Scandinavian but they're still melodic death metal. What other band would be a good example of a progressive melodic death band? It's not just melodic death alone. If any it would have to be Scar Symmetry. − ₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪  kaiden  23:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Founders of Melodeath
I just edited the sentence "The genre was created by three bands who at the time all knew each other: In Flames, Dark Tranquillity and At the Gates" to "Dissection and At the Gates", because seriously, if you just study it a bit, In Flames didn't create anything before 1994, by then At the Gates had released three full-lengths, Dark Tranquillity had released only one (heavily influenced by At the Gates, not very revolting and didn't get much recognition) while Dissection had released 4 demos and one VERY influential full-length.

I would recommend everyone to read the book "Swedish Death Metal" by Daniel Ekeroth before changing anything back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.107.235 (talk) 21:51, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

The thing is - Dark Tranquillity were making music since 1989, their first release under Septic Broiler was more thrash oriented so that can be thrown out the door, but in 1991, when they did change their name, they also changed their style and if you have heard the Trail of Life Decayed demo, it is melodeath. While your arguement does hold merit, I think they should be mentioned as well, In Flames' first demo was '93 by the way... -- Shatterzer0 (talk) 22:44, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Carcass made the first album which is solid proof they are the founders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.179.211 (talk) 13:08, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Eluveitie
"Some melodic death metal bands from the Scandinavian region ... Eluveitie". As Eluveitie is a Swiss band, they don't belong in that sentence. LaHaine (talk) 13:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

melodic death metal and deathcore
What is the difference between the two genres. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.78.1.155 (talk) 23:39, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Melodic death metal is a subgenre of death metal. It is a more melodic-styled death metal minus the true death metal riffs of Immolation, Death, Morbid Angel and more to give some examples. Keyboards are prominent within the genre and the guitars often reference Iron Maiden-esque melodicism in their guitar work making it feel more progressive.

 * As for deathcore, it is a subgenre of metalcore and a fusion of death metal. Most bands have breakdowns and at times resemble the sound of death metal acts with that addition. The riffs are overall more death metal-like but not quite true death metal with all the breakdowns and metalcore influence.

FireCrystal (talk) 01:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Melodic death metal is "melodic"?
The phrase "more melodic than Death Metal" gets thrown around alot, but nowhere in the article is there a very clear definition of what that means. The closest this article came to addressing this is:

Melodic death metal contains more melodic guitar riffs, melodic solos, and acoustic guitar work than death metal[citation needed].

Note the "citation needed".

"More melodic guitar riffs" is great, but it still doesn't answer my question. "Melodic Solos"? If a passage is "Melodic" in the way he seems to be using the term, than it isn't a cadenza, it's a melody, and that's not a solo at all. "Acoustic Guitar Work"? Right... I've listened to a good deal of In Flames and Bodom and the only time I've ever heard an acoustic guitar was in Acoustic Medley.

It also contains more comprehensible lyrics with traditional death growl and screaming vocal input.[citation needed]

What in the hell does that mean?

It seems to me that Melodic Death Metal is more characteristic of influence from sounds like In Flames and At the Gates than this extremely vague concept of "melodic" work people keep talking about. If this is the case, shouldn't the main article be "Gothenburg Metal" with "Melodic Death Metal" redirecting?

Also, Progressive Melodic Death Metal? Are you kidding me? This sounds less like a real Genre and more like an attempt to get some obscure melodeath band that calls themselves progressive onto Wikipedia.

Erroramong (talk) 03:26, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

 * We all know that this article really needs to be fixed up and that a lot of the points in the article are unreferenced but that's usually what happens with unreferenced articles (or ones lacking sources). It will be hard and painful to find a clear diffinition that all authors, reviewers, interviewers, the press and, etc use but you are welcome to be bold and do so.

Melodic death metal contains more melodic guitar riffs, melodic solos, and acoustic guitar work than death metal[citation needed].

I think the context intends for it to be a guitar solo probably indicating that there are more solos in melodic death than there is in death metal but that's pretty vague as it's only opinion. I think the solo part and acoustic guitar part should actually be removed since there are sometimes melodic passages in death metal too and acoustic guitar seems to be pretty rare. It may also be implied that the instruments die down at some point in the song and an instrumental break starts in parts of songs which are more melodic. It's still original research though.

It also contains more comprehensible lyrics with traditional death growl and screaming vocal input.[citation needed]

Well here it depends on the band but generally they seem to be more comprehensible than real death metal (especially its subgenres like death/doom, brutal death metal and there's also deathgrind. Then again it depends on the vocalist of the band.

I don't think it would make sense to make a general type of music such as melodic death metal as Gothenburg metal because melodic death metal bands are from all over the world but it could pass as a scene but this article also describes some bits about the scene so that will be sufficient. Many, many people of the media and etc label bands as melodic death metal and is a more well known term than "Gothenburg metal" to describe bands. FireCrystal (talk) 04:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Carcass
...Has been almost completely edited out, which is really strange considering they Heartwork is the, to my knowledge, earliest melodic death metal album. I don't know how to reference poroperly and use sources, but someone please fix this, or at least show me how.193.1.52.12 (talk) 09:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You need to show us the reliable sources before we can use them. Nerfari (talk) 21:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I'm going by chronology here. Heartwork pre-empted the albums that formed the Gothengurg sound by about 2 years. 86.46.247.78 (talk) 22:03, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

 * That's not true. Heartwork was recorded and released in 1993, the same year a number of other melodeath albums were recorded and released. Sentenced, At the Gates, Dark Tranquillity, and even In Flames put out albums that year that are considered to be melodeath (In Flames put out a demo album, but an album nonetheless). Early the following year, In Flames' label debut came out (which was actually recorded in 1993) and so did Amorphis' second album which is considered to be their first melodeath album. So Carcass was not the first melodeath band, but it was one of the first. --Nova Weaver (talk) 23:21, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I am deleting this page right now.
Because melodic death metal is not a genre. No band falls under the genre "melodic death metal."

For example:

The Black Dahlia Murder are metalcore. Carcass are heavy metal. In Flames are hard rock.

There is no melodic death metal.

Ah right I see that clears it up. Well you know best I'm sure. 89.241.226.78 (talk) 09:38, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

jesus, you're ridiculous! carcass are not heavy metal, they were goregrind and grindcore before the release of their album heartwork, they were then and still are one of the key acts of melodic death metal, because they helped to pioneer it. in flames are one of the first real melodic death metal bands, listen to their old stuff. they might have changed to a kind of alternative metal direction in the newer stuff, but they still have their melodic death metal sound and they have never even considered playing anything else then metal, specially not hard rock, do they sound like avenged sevenfold maybe? i don't think so. and i wouldn't classify the black dahlia murder as any genre, they are a mainstream band showing off and trying to sound brutal, but besides that, they have no notability. they are just lame. melodic death metal is a genre, and there are a lot of sources that prove that, and a lot of bands who prove it does exist, educate yourself a bit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.179.243 (talk) 18:18, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

dismember
dismember is the first melodic death metal band y no reference in the article 76.220.195.8 (talk) 23:28, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for genre-combining examples
There's no example for a band yet that mixes melodic death metal with progressive metal. Skyfire fit the bill better than any other band I can think of. Is it OK if I add them?

As for Children of Bodom, they are not the best example for a prog/MDM hybrid in my opinion. They're the prototypical example for a neo-classical/MDM hybrid, though. I suppose Necrophagist don't count as MDM (and they aren't from Scandinavia anyway), and I'm not sure if Wintersun qualify as MDM; they could only possibly be added as an example for a virtually all-encompassing hybrid. Florian Blaschke (talk) 14:07, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No objections in the course of almost a week, so I went ahead and added them. Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:50, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Trance Metal Page
I feel that as 'Trance Metal' should have it's own page, it is becoming increasingly popular within the metal scene and extends far more than this artical lets on. I will collect sources now. Skullbird11 (talk) 01:24, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

 * that's not metal, that's hardcore with a high usage of synths, and a lot of trance and electro elements, and what does this have to do with this article? as i know, only the band Blood Stain Child combines melodic death metal with trance. you can't make a page based by one band who sounds different, besides, electronic hardcore, and electronically influenced hardcore pages have been deleted already few times.

 * There are more Trance Metal bands out there besides Blood Stain Child. Silent Descent, Lost Eden and The Dawn Chose Orion are a few more. Salamibears58 (talk) 19:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Salamibears58

Isn't the point of music to have a melody?
So does that make all non-melodic black metal "dissonance"? 184.96.229.186 (talk) 03:23, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, what is your point?--3family6 (talk) 12:12, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

"...This death metal style that combines the post-hardcore aggression and guttural vocals of black metal..." What the hell?!

 * first of this article might be the worst article on wikipedia, there's a load of incorrect information, like the section "gothenburg metal", that doesn't exist, it's just a name given as a joke by some fans. melodic death metal is the same thing as "gothenburg metal". i've never actually seen in some bands' genre section they are  "gothenborg metal", it's all melodic death metal, a simple genre that combines death metal aggression with the melody of heavy metal. sure, the early bands had some influences of black metal, grindcore, and progressive rock, but that was before the genre actually got involved, and became a real genre, and whoever has writen the sentence "This death metal style that combines the post-hardcore aggression and guttural vocals of black metal..." has clearly no clue about music, post-hardcore is not aggressive. it was an offshoot of hardcore punk in the early days, but now it's just faggot music, with a pussy who doesn't know how to scream but tries and fails and gay clean vocals by a guy who sound like a 3-year old girl, and since when did black metal contain guttural growls? even the monkeys in the zoo know black metal has shrieking screams, and if melo-death is influenced by any way off it, it's just the dark atmosphere. wake up people, it's just stupid to let some kids who don't know shit about music ruin the article of the most awesome sub-genre of metal by putting non-sense to it like that guy above who wanted to add killswitch engage to a notable melodic death metal band. i'm going to delete the "gothenburg metal" section and its up to you guys what will you do with the page. continue writing non-sense or actually improve the article with correct information, and make the article look like it deserves to look like, with every correct sentence and expanded at least like the thrash metal article.

 * Rants don't mean much on Wikipedia. Do you have sources?-- ¿3fam  ily6  contribs 20:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

 * i don't need any, steven gibb of allexperts.com says gothenburg metal is a movement, not a genre, and there's no need to put the infobox for that, because that is just melodic death metal with some influences on other genres, it's not a genre at all, just a movement, and i've read about black metal and post-hardcore here and other sites, and there are no sources that post-hardcore is aggressive or black metal has guttural vocals. that was just wrong, black metal has shrieking vocals, and there are a lot sources for that, and post-hardcore is just fast and loud, not aggressive in any way, might have been before, but now, it's just a shitty genre that has nothing to do with melodic death metal, it's does with melodic metalcore though, but not with melodic death metal or gothenburg metal, whatever you want to call it. if it's really that important for the section to stay, fine than, but the sentence i've put on the title of this discussion and infobox got to go, because that's not correct, not even close. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.152.214 (talk) 23:05, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am fine with taking the infobox out of the Gothenburg metal section. Post-hardcore is aggressive, though the term has grown incredibly broad and now includes softer styles of music. With black metal, personally I've heard a lot of guttural vocals, but if you can provide a source that says that black metal does not use guttural vocals, then go ahead and remove that sentence.-- ¿3fam  ily6  contribs 02:44, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * okay, but post-hardcore has still nothing to do with this style of music, it does with melodic metalcore, and it's just giving it a bunch of melody, not aggression. and here is a reliable sources of black metal having shrieking vocals...

Kahn-Harris, Keith (2006). Extreme Metal: Music and Culture on the Edge, page 4: Traditional black metal vocals take the form of high-pitched shrieks, screams and snarls. this is also featured on the black metal page. guttural death growls are characteristics of death metal, as the second sentence on the article says "It typically employs heavily distorted guitars, tremolo picking, deep growling vocals, blast beat drumming, minor keys or atonality, and complex song structures with multiple tempo changes." if you want to i can find you a reliable source for that too, but i'm sure everyone is going to say to you that growls are common death metal vocals, and screams are common black metal vocals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.152.214 (talk) 09:00, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's enough. What we need is a source that specifically says that black metal does not use guttural vocals, or something to that effect. The source above doesn't actually contradict the Allmusic ref.-- ¿3fam  ily6  contribs 11:48, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * why does everybody believe what's written on allmusic? they put every metalcore band as alternative metal, and that source is about a deathcore band.

what about this? http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=black%20metal; http://heavymetal.about.com/od/heavymetal101/a/101_blackmetal.htm; http://www.wikimetal.info/wiki/Black_Metal; http://forums.music-talk.org/topic/99205/1/ there are five links that say black metal uses high-piched shrieking vocals, one says it does both, but the rest says just high-piched shrieking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.152.214 (talk) 13:00, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Urban Dictionary and Wikimetal are user generated and completely unacceptable as sources; the same for the forum post, unless you can prove author of the forum post is a published author in the music field. eHow looked okay to me but is blacklisted on Wikipedia for some reason. About.com is perfect, but it actually says that both vocal styles are used, which flat out contradicts your argument. I'm not saying that you are wrong, it's just that the source doesn't support your claim.-- ¿3fam  ily6  contribs 13:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * No references saying that black metal does not have guttural vocals have turned up, and the about.com reference above says that it does have them. I'm putting the sentence back in.-- ¿3fam  ily6  contribs 12:18, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

chuck Norris has been involved with death metal for many years.He has his own band called boot to the head finger in your bum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.12.55.210 (talk) 02:55, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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Venice High School (Florida)

Venice High School is a secondary school located in Venice, Florida for grades 9–12.

History
Venice High School was built in the late 1940s in Venice, Florida. The high school (grades 9–12) opened in 1956 with John E. Davis as its first principal. Venice Junior High (grades 6–8) opened sometime in 1959 when the student body outgrew the high school. Guy Rose was the first Vice Principal under Davis in charge of the Junior High. The original buildings remained unchanged until 2012, when the high school and junior high were demolished (the original gymnasium and Powell–Davis Stadium remained) to build the existing facility. The campus was completed in 2014, including a new music suite housing the chorus and band and a city-mandated performing arts center.

The school's "Indians" mascot has been controversial.

Programs
Featured programs include Career Technical Education: PC Support, Health Options, Digital Design, Early Childhood, Culinary Arts, Engineering, and Business Entrepreneurial pathways.

Venice High School offers the International Baccalaureate (IB) Program, which is an academically focused curriculum for students ages sixteen to eighteen (grades 11 and 12) preparing to enter university.

Unique to Venice High School is the Rotary Futures Program, which assists students with postsecondary planning, college applications, and scholarship acquisition. This program has obtained millions of scholarship dollars for Venice High School seniors.

An annual Literacy Celebration is held in January in partnership with the Gulf Coast Foundation of Venice. Noted authors and Pulitzer Prize winners Tim O’Brien, Rich Bragg, and Alice Hoffman are among the featured guests. These authors conduct student presentations and workshops before the evening event.

VHS has more than 65 community mentors/employers, including Medical doctors, nursing, veterinarians, radiology, engineering, various businesses, accounting, culinary, tourism, and many more.

Venice Performing Arts Center
Attached to Venice High School is the Venice Performing Arts Center (VPAC). This building includes the performing arts classes, which include band, orchestra, acting, and chorus.

The VPAC has an apprenticeship program for Venice High School, where juniors and seniors can gain theater and job experience and help their community.

Student demographics
Venice High School enrolls over 2,000 students annually, compared to the state average of 750 for K-12 schools. Of those in attendance in 2005, 95% of the student body is Caucasian, 2% Hispanic, 1% Asian, and 1% African American.

Competitive teams
Venice is known for its athletics programs, including state volleyball championships (1998, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018) and baseball (2007, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2018, 2019). Venice's football program, coached by John Peacock, has been recognized as one of the best teams in the state, making several state championship appearances since their first in 2000 (7th in the nation) and winning a second in 2017.

 * Football State Champions- in 2000, 2017, & 2021
 * Baseball State Champions- 2007, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2018, & 2019
 * Volleyball State Champions- 1998, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2017 & 2022
 * Academic Olympics – Venice High School's Academic Olympics Team competes in the county and contributes to the Sarasota County All Star Team for the Commissioner's Academic Challenge (CAC) at the state level. The team most recently won the county championship in 2017.

Accolades
In 2006, the Florida Department of Education named Venice High School an "A" school. In 2007, the school missed the 525 points needed for an "A" grade by 4 points, receiving a score of 521 to earn a "B" grade. The school has increased its graduation rate from 63.9% in 1999 to 84.7% in 2007. Its dropout rate is 1.6%.

Notable alumni

 * Dri Archer, NFL player
 * Alexandra Barreto, actress
 * Trey Burton, NFL player
 * Tyler Gauthier, NFL player
 * Dalton Guthrie, MLB player
 * Mark Guthrie, former MLB player
 * Orion Kerkering, MLB player
 * Jon Knott, MLB player
 * Forrest Lamp, NFL player
 * Alvin Mitchell, football player
 * Greg Pitts, actor
 * Jack Voigt, MLB player and minor league coach
 * Malachi Wideman, football player

title: Venice High School (Florida)


text:
Category:People of the Three Kingdoms

This category contains people who lived before or during the Three Kingdoms era in ancient China who had contributed significantly to their time or were well-known in their own right. The category also contains fictional characters found in the 14th century historical novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms by Luo Guanzhong.

title: Category:People of the Three Kingdoms


text:
Talk:East Champaran district

Untitled
A request to all the fellow Wikipedians interested in the development of contents of this page: I shall be adding (say, by end-April/ early-May 2006) some more contents to this page. If some one may add a map and picture/s, the page shall become better. Thanks.

Title
Why the title is East Champaran disatrict, instead of East Champaran ? -- Extra999 (talk) 23:33, 30 January 2010 (UTC) OK. I have done it myself. -- Extra999 (talk) 23:111, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Naming convention for Indian districts. All articles contain the name and then the uncapitalized "district". Good Ol’factory (talk) 22:17, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Popular list of Motihari
Dear Sir Shri Ram Biahri Sharma a Freedom fighter and great visionary in the field of womens education. He was founder secretary of shree Ktishan mahila college, siruna High school and L.N.D collage in Motihari.He also proposed Mahatma Ghandhi university at Motihari which present chife Minister Nitish Kumar given his consent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.149.49.65 (talk) 11:51, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

locations of police stations under motihari district —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.161.119.46 (talk) 14:10, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Amit Kumar Choubey is grass root activist hails from Areraj,East Champaran,Bihar.Founder Presedent of www.bseaindia.com, Founder of Sanmat Trust,Which has served billion of people during its intervention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bharti Devi (talk • contribs) 11:25, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 1 one external link on East Champaran district. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131019160532/http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/apportionment-pop-text.php to http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/apportionment-pop-text.php

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:06, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:East Champaran district