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Talk:New Found Glory

Stephanie Reines and Midtown
"Stefanie Reines of Drive-Thru Records heard the album from the band Midtown and later re-released the album in 1999" Could someone please rewrite that sentance to be less confusing. Did the band Midtown pass a copy of NFG's album on to Stefanie? Or what else was it that happened?

James
Can we please stop putting James down for a current member? The band already announced that he is not part of the band anymore. New Found Glory only has five members. Source: --Sharpdust 22:25, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Future of Article
Does anybody have any suggestions as to what is necessary for this article as well as New Found Glory-related articles. The singles chart has been added, the "This Disaster" article has been created, what else? More singles articles? I made the "All Downhill From Here" one but the only other one that I feel needs creation is "My Friends Over You". Maybe a category for New Found Glory albums? I don't think that "The Story So Far" DVD warrants an article, if somebody feels differently go for it. But anyways, if anybody's got some good suggestions, post them, there surprisingly is not a lot of discussion on this band. Sharpdust 07:32, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * There is a Category:New Found Glory albums. And I really don't like the seperate articles for the band members. I think the little information they provide might be better suited in more detailed subsections of the "Members" section on the NFG article page. They would have to be completely re-written, as most of them are POV, unreferenced and contain sentences like "Pundik also possesses one of the most unique voices among all other pop-punk vocalists in the US." (from the Jordan Pundik article) which make absolutely no sense.
 * I also think the article needs more substance in general, as it's basically nothing more than a rundown of chart positions of their albums. I will have some free time on my hands in the coming weeks, so I might do a little work on the article. -HarryCane 11:44, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Genre
These guys are totally emo, not remotely hardcore. Let's get this fixed.

Isn't 1 of their genres 'Emo' or something? Another genre debate.. but I gotta know. I mean, I was told they're Emo, and they even appeared on MTV2 on "So Emo-Tional"... Just need to know.. -Dor —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.178.208.233 (talk • contribs).
 * They are labeled emo by various (so-called professional) sources, yes. But the term is tossed around way too haphazardly nowadays, and attached to a very broad spectrum of bands (some of which have very little in common besides maybe their fanbase). It has become more of a description for a "scene" rather than a musical genre. NFG's music, however, is hardly to be considered emo-influenced, but largely hardcore punk and punk rock-influenced, hence the genres on this page. --HarryCane 18:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * How are to you say that your opinion is better than a "so called professional"? "Melodic hardcore" does not sound like the correct genre because when I look in the bands section of Melodic hardcore, I see bands like Rise Against and Strike Anywhere. Neither of these bands' sound anything like New Found Glory. On the bands purevolume page it says they are labeled as emo and pop-punk. As far as I'm concerned, I think an official website promoted by the band is concerned more appropriate than your opinion. This definitely needs further discussion, so please reply back. 69.142.32.146 14:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Just a couple of things to clear up first — I'd like to keep this as civil as possible, so please excuse me if I sound too much like a smartass, I really don't mean to. Please let me know if you disagree with me on any of this. I've said it often and I'll gladly say it again: What a band (or the label intern that runs the respective site) writes on their homepage/PureVolume/MySpace profile is not always a correct classification of a band's genre. For an artists it is very hard to label one's own music, because it is impossible to look at it objectively. Also, I have never said my opinion is better than the one of a so-called professional in any way. I am not the one who listed melodic hardcore in the genres, so please don't try and make it look like I'm forcing my opinion on anybody. Sorry if that wasn't your intention, but people tend to attack me because I express my opinion in these genre discussions.
 * Anyway, back to the topic. Please keep in mind that genres do not only apply to one or two bands. If you look at other bands on that list, not all of them have the exact same sound. It is not uncommon that two bands affiliated to the same musical style or genre sound nothing alike, yet they are tagged the same solely for their shared roots and influences (or other factors that amount to a certain classification). In the case of New Found Glory, they have often stated that they were largely influenced by local Hardcore punk bands (which is fairly obvious given Chad's previous band Shai Hulud, as well as his backing vocals since Sticks and Stones), hence some derivative form of harcore punk should definitively be mentioned in the genre column. Also, it is paired with pop punk, to take away a little emphasis from the melodic hardcore-part. Here's a good quote from Chad concerning this (I am aware that it stands in direct contrast to what I wrote about a band not being able to classify their own music properly):
 * "We have the energy of a hardcore band, but it's a little bit more melodic."
 * Lastly, emo (as I already stated) is more of a term used for a scene, rather than a musical genre. If you like, you can read the Emo (music) article on the whole history — the gist however is that Jimmy Eat World was the last band to be considered emo when the genre died down, they changed their style and every band that sounded similar to their new 'alienated' form of emo was automatically, and most importantly, incorrectly labelled "emo" — a common mistake made by many "so-called professional" music journalists, who IMO should know better. Nowadays, "emo" has become more of an insult (as in "You stupid emo!") and it is often used with negative connotations. The original, musical form of emo (the basis for the term) has little to do with New Found Glory's music, despite being another sub-genre of hardcore punk. --HarryCane 16:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Even with all that, they can still be emo. I'm not saying they are (because I don't care), but what you said does not rule it out. And I disagree that the genre is dead. --Pwnage8 (talk) 22:29, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Change to Article
Alright, well I removed their genre Melodic Hardcore because the band is definitely the farthest thing from it. They have soft melodies, and sing extremely high-pitched. If you want to hear Melodic Hardcore try looking up some bands that are mentioned on the Melodic Hardcore wikipedia page, you’ll notice they sound nothing at all like New Found Glory. As much as it seems some of you would like this band to be hardcore and all that, they are not. Please just accept they are nothing more than a Pop-punk band and stop changing their genre. leave it the way it is. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.141.184.10 (talk • contribs).
 * Well, they are definitely (melodic) hardcore-influenced, and simply labelling them "pop" instead of "rock" is a little general (and above all, incorrect). Maybe not on their most recent work, but most definitely on anything prior to that. Please look into the power pop article as they are a hell of a lot more melodic hardcore than they are power pop. Also, take in consideration the introduction of the section "List of melodic hardcore bands" in the melodic hardcore article, which very well applies to New Found Glory. Lastly, please only change such things as genre and musical styles if you can provide sources stating that the band is not harcore-influenced, but power pop-influenced (which should be impossible), per WP:V. --HarryCane 12:23, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Alright I agree that they have some hardcore influence BUT since when does a band's genre come from what they're influenced by? If a band is influenced by Classical music does that put them in the classical genre? I don't think so, so why would the fact that a band is influenced by hardcore music doesn't set thim in the Melodic Hardcore genre?Scubster 03:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Genres are all about influences. They're about shared patterns, rhythms, sounds, influences and chord progressions with other acts. If it wasn't, we would need a single genre for each and every band, because two bands will never sound exactly the same. --HarryCane 16:00, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * so basically you're telling me that every band in the world should be put in the same genre because if you go by influence everyone is influenced by a band who was influenced by another band who was influenced by another band so then wouldn't the genre of every band be the same cause if you going by influence you have to include the enfluence of the other bands cause they technically are influencing the band that is influencing the first said band. basically what I'm saying is genres aren't about influence it's about the music your playing it's classiflying and categorizing the current style of music cause if you put your influences genres in your genre then you might have a really long list of genres heading all the back to pretty much classical music. I vote take out Melodic Hardcore cause it doens't belong with New Found Glory they're a Pop Punk/Rock band and nothing more.Scubster 14:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Wow, I really don't know how you got all that from what I wrote earlier. Where exactly did I say that every band should be labelled "classical music"? Whatever, if the melodic hardcore label is taken out, it should at least be mentioned that they are hardcore-influenced, because it shows in their music (except for maybe on their latest effort) that their roots lie within the hardcore genre. --HarryCane 19:51, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 * You didn't diectly, but what you did say is that genres are influence and everyone is influenced by classical music.Scubster 02:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I didn't say that (that everyone is influenced by classical music). And I certainly don't believe that. --HarryCane 12:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I know you didn't say that everyone is influenced by classical music, I said that because you said that genres are about influence but ever type of music dates back to classical. So, technically everyone is influenced by classical music (like it or not they are.) We could date it back even further but I'm too lazy to do that.Scubster 19:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

The band has gone back to Drive-Thru Records according to their website. Maybe this change should be made to the professional career section. Everelusive 04:50, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Ellioteaton (talk) 21:06, 24 March 2010 (UTC)There's a mistake in the linking- Chicago Alderman Joe Moreno redirects to this page as a "former member" if you click on his name from the Chicago Aldermen page.

Singles
I have created an article for my friends over you, mainly because this is their breakthrough song, at least onto the commercial scene, feel free to add or takeaway as long as it improves the article01:31, 21 August 2006 (UTC)Titch31

Members section
I think the members' seperate articles have been tagged "merge into New Found Glory" long enough (a Grushka article doesn't even exist) and there were mostly no opposing arguments against a move. I still don't think what little information is there on each member warrants an article on its own, so a merge would in my opinion be appropriate. I put a little temp page together at User:HarryCane/New_Found_Glory_members. I'm going to do my best and reference what's there, and I'd love it if we could somehow get a license-free headshot of each member (preferrably cropped from one photograph) to accompany their subsection. Let me know what you think. --HarryCane 10:22, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * No one's got an opinion on this?`--HarryCane 17:43, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I do. Shouldn't members be listed, not set in their own boxes? Jeez, it's like I'm looking at a band's "Members" page on their website. The wording is nice, but shouldn't paragraphs be, you know, in their own articles, or you know, merged into the article? This is probably the only page I see with that, and it just looks like people are trying too hard for this article to look good rather than be informative. It looks really nice, but Wikipedia isn't for looking nice. IronCrow 04:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I think we have too little info to create individual articles and even a separeted article with everyone. IMO, the info should be be put in the band's article as it was until IllaZilla remove the content on 8 January 2008.--ChancerBR (talk) 01:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

'My friends over you' was the last video ever played on Much Music before it changed its name to Fuse. We should add that to there somewhere.The Clydelishes Clyde 21:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Might also want to add that Steve Klein is married and has a daughter named Presley Rae.Everelusive 04:47, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

The emo question again
HarryCane, I found your comment about emo as a genre not existing anymore very interesting. I agree with you on several fronts, emo has become a very scene oriented medium and the term is being thrown around very haphazerdly these days. However I think it's premature to say that it's died as a musical genre, it might be very different than it was a decade ago, but there's still lots of music being produced, marketed and recieved as emo, in fact I think it's quite anaologous to what has happened with punk in general. Is the punk that high schoolers gorwing up in the 80's and 90's knew dead? If you judge by the commercial music industry, then yes. Go to any high school and you'll find that punk has become much more of an image, clique or in the music industy, umbrella term for several niche alternative rock genres, than it once was. And yet there are literally dozens of groups still producing music that is being labeled and recieved as punk. The same thing, I believe, can be said for emo. Emo as far as anyone in the mid 90's knew it may be gone, but the same can be said for punk, ska, goth rock or a multitude of other subgenres, heck alternative rock in general doesn't exist as we once knew it and yet the label is still carried on to the new generation. The fact is that many bands are producing music they label as emo, the record labels then market and sell that music as emo and the fans and radio stations recieve it as emo. It might not be emo in the classical sense but that's what people recieve it as and that's what people now percieve emo to be. Yes, it's not the pure emo that the original fans grew up with, and it's become commercialized and cheapened like most everything else and that sucks for the orignal fans, but the bottom line is it has adapted to the times just like any other subgenre. Anyway that's just how I see the current situation.

However that's really not my main intent on posting here, my real concern is the debate on whether or not New Found Glory is emo. I realize that you're a very passionate fan and you're just trying to protect the band's artistic integrity but the thing is we went through this exact same debate with the term "Grunge" over at the Smashing Pumpkins article some time ago. I'm not sure if you're familar with that band so let me briefly explain. I am a huge smashing pumpkins fan, the band first gained mainstream exposur eint he early 90's the same time that the seattle grunge scene was exploding in popularity. The band never considered themselves grunge, and they weren't even from the same region or musical background as most grunge artists, however since their music had some stylistic similarities to several grunge bands, that's what they were initially labelled as. The band of course hated this, but that's how the public percieved them for a time. Eventually the grunge fad began to fade and the band became well enough known off their musical merrits that the label was dropped. So over at the SP page we had a dilemma do we label them as grunge or not? Most of the fans were against it however we couldn't ignore the fact that for a time the label was part of their public identity. We ended up coming to a compromise, rather than sticking grunge under the infobox we instead just mentioned the genre confusion in passing in the body of the article. I believe the same should be done to this article. I realize that a lot of, possibly most, long term emo fans might not consider NFG to be "true emo" but that is term which the larger public associated them, and if you'll excuse me for saying so it does seem a bit presemptious to think that if the band themselves label themself as emo on their official site, we shouldn't at least mention it somewhere in the article. Again I realize that this article must mean a lot to you and you're just trying to keep it as factually accurate as possible but this is a compromise that has worked for a lot of other bands' articles and I believe that it would be well-suited here.

S. Luke 20:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Members section
I reduced the "members" section down to a a list, as it was absolutely full of extraneous detail on each member. If the person is notable enough outside the band, then there should be a separate article about them with these details. A complete bio of each member within an article about the band is completely unnecessary. Also, the individual promotional pictures of the members do not meet Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion under fair use guidelines. IllaZilla (talk) 06:54, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Logo
I also took the "logo" out of the infobox. First of all, logos are not appropriate in infoboxes; if it was notable enough then it should be in a separate image box within the article, with a discussion of its significance. If there's no discussion of the logo, then it too fails fair use criteria. Also, it wasn't a logo but rather just a stylization of the band's name from one of their albums. NFG has no logo; their name appears in different stylizations on every album and no design is used consistently enough to be called a logo. Bad Religion and Pennywise, for example, have logos...NFG does not. --IllaZilla (talk) 04:16, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Chad Gilbert's article
I created Chad Gilbert's article. --Thebluesharpdude (talk) 06:54, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

If you look some older pages of NFG's article, such as this, you find info about every member.--ChancerBR (talk) 13:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Recentism Central
A.K.A. the history section. --Pwnage8 (talk) 22:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

New Found Glory as Emo
I've added Emo to the band's list of genres. I realize that this may be seen as a controversial move by some. However the only evidence provided this page to prove that their not emo has been personal opinion, whereas I have included several reliable sources to back up my statement. Since Wikipedia is based on verifiability rather than opinion please discuss here before removing this information. Aurum ore (talk) 22:34, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

ha ha, no. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.127.137.84 (talk) 19:26, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

 * The statement is backed up by reliable third party sources, it's unfortanute that it happenes to disagree with your personal opinion. Aurum ore (talk) 08:19, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't think any of those sources are reliable. Allmusic always call nu metal and metalcore bands "alternative metal" or "punk metal" and pop punk as "emo", which is wrong, and this has been discussed before. The second source states "the rock/punk/pop (otherwise known as “emo”)" which is not correct. And it's clear that the mention of "emo" on the Rolling Stone article was not to be taken literaly. We should call NFG thrash metal, hardcore punk, synth rock if that source is reliable (which is not, again)--Kmaster (talk) 12:25, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

 * The sources in question are all used in mutliple wikipedia articles and are generally accepted as relaible sources. Although some people don't like Allmusic for varrying reasons, they're actually specifically recomended on the main page of WP:Music. Sure, the references are the opinions of some journalists and writers but really that's what all sources boil down to and they reflect the opinions of a larger group (although there are clearly many who disagree with them). Aurum ore (talk) 00:54, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

All I know is that NFG was sick of being compared by media with emo bands and being called emo. So the made Catalyst, and the song Intro, in which they say "Don't believe a word they say". IMHO, these sources about genres mean nothing. It's too subjective, and I think if the majority of real fans say it's melodic hard core, or punk rock, then they are melodic hc and punk rock. Period. Moreover, if even the band do not consider themselves emo (what they say on Intro), they are definitely not emo! ChancerBR (talk) 16:42, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

 * The problem is that since the term Emo now carries negative connotations in some circles, many bands are claiming they're not part of the genre, even though they clearly fit most current definitions of the term. I'm not saying New Found Glory is one of these, but just because a band says they aren't a particular genre doesn't necessarily make it true (for example Twisted Sister might deny the fact that they're a Hair Band even though many people consider them to be one).  Curiously, New Found Glory actually used to list Emo as one of their genres on their MySpace page (probably around 2005-2006) although that is no longer the case. However, in regards to wikipedia the important thing is that we report multiple viewpoints. There are verifiable sources to support the fact that some people consider them to be Emo, just like there are verifiable sources to support that others consider them to be Pop Punk. As a result both genres are listed. Aurum ore (talk) 00:55, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Hardcore
Hardcore should not be listed as a genre in the New Found Glory infobox. The 4 references used to justify this genre, do not even call NFG hardcore: Because of the aforementioned reasons, I am removing the hardcore genre from the infobox. Please comment here or on my talk page if you disagree with my rationale. Ł ittle Ä lien¹8² (talk\contribs) 18:32, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The first reference states that "elsewhere, the group careens between hardcore punk, synth-rock and emo-tinged ballads" on their album Catalyst . It does not call the band or the album "hardcore." That is the only mention of hardcore in this reference.
 * The second reference doesn't mention the hardcore genre at all.
 * The third reference only mentions "hardcore" in a user-reply to a review --it is not even mentioned in the actual review. Even if you are to assume that this user-comment is credible, it only states that "NFG is, at heart, a pop punk band with a good deal of hardcore influences," not a hardcore band.
 * The fourth reference is an online forum. Firstly, it is not a reliable, third-party source.  And, secondly, it never even states that NFG is a hardcore band.
 * Your right, they don't support the fact that they are hardcore. This is because I originally used the references to back up their being called emo, which all four references support, but another user vandalised the page to list them as hardcore instead. Aurum ore (talk) 22:55, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I may remove the fourth "emo" reference, since it is written by an amateur reviewer. Message me on my talk page if you have a problem with this.   Ł ittle Ä lien¹8² (talk\contribs) 00:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

"Constant Static"
"On March 18, 2008, a compilation named Hits was released. Two previously unreleased songs, "Situations" and "Constant Static," are also featured on the album"

"Constant Static" was actually on the Catalyst album.
 * Actually, it wasn't. It was a bonus track in Japan and the UK, but it was not on the original release. Also, I know that there is an error in the CDDB that lists "I'd Kill to Fall Asleep" as "Constant Static" when imported into iTunes, so that may have confused you. Rwiggum  (Talk /Contrib ) 22:23, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

genre
Melodic Hardcore —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohammed212693 (talk • contribs) 00:20, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Ian Grushka
Ian Grushka is the head bassist for New Found Glory. Often plays with his shirt off. Appeared on MTV Cribs on numerous occasions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bweather04 (talk • contribs) 19:29, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Assocaiated Acts
The Assocaiated Acts NEED to include Paramore. They have toured with paramore before, which in turn sparked the realationship with Hayley Williams and Chad Gilbert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Telecasterization (talk • contribs) 02:50, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

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Lead
Could they simply be added as a pop punk band in the lead, it is what they are most known for. If not pop punk could punk rock be added? Dekai Averett (talk) 03:22, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

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Proposed merge of International Superheroes of Hardcore into New Found Glory
International Superheroes of Hardcore is not a supergroup but a short-lived parody side-project consisting of all the members of New Found Glory and nobody else. I see very slim-- if any-- significant reliable coverage independent from NFG coverage. --Animalparty! (talk) 01:37, 1 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Support this merge. Joyous! | Talk 04:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Support - should just be merged into NFG's history section for this timeframe. Doesn't appear any if their releases are actually notable either. Sergecross73   msg me  02:11, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅. Joyous! Noise! 04:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:New Found Glory


text:
Talk:Yugoslav First League

seasons and CZ
Hurricane Angel, your season delineation noticably differs from that one at http://www.rsssf.com/tablesj/joegchamp.html Also, Crvena Zvezda has an article so you missed that one needlessly. --Joy [shallot]   02:27, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks Shallot, I was actually rushing the edit because I was on my way to work. I just got back now and be sure that I'll be finishing the edit.. Did you really think I forgot about Crvena Zvezda? Haha, no way man. I was hoping in the history the "incomplete" was enough :) --Hurricane Angel 04:16, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

 * It looked a bit weird, and I'm pretty sure that those fans would think that we were screwing with their heads if they saw the list :) --Joy [shallot]   10:29, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Haha, anyways. What would you think of a table instead of a list, which also includes the runner-up, and instead of miniature flags like the Football world cup it has miniature club emblems? I was thinking that might be organizing things even further, and then having a "Top Champions" where it lists them by how many times they won? --Hurricane Angel 18:04, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

SCG and the successor issue
Joy, it's true that at that point Yugoslavia dissolved, however SCG (being the biggest proponent of Yugoslavia) kept the name and the name of the league.. which is what we're describing. I personally would much rather see the records for the dates up until 2003, after all SCG didn't exist as an entiry or as a football league (note they still use www.fsj.co.yu, both FSJ and the YU), so it's much more fitting that we include those years in the table you made.

 * I wouldn't mind if you created a separate article called "Yugoslav First League (FRY)" or something like that, but I think having it in First League of Serbia and Montenegro is sufficient, and it's definitely not right to keep it all in here. FSJ had kept that name when the FR Yugoslavia was formed (NB: SFRY was not renamed to FRY, the latter was a different country by all international standards), and kept it until FRY was renamed to SCG (NB this was a rename) - it was then renamed to FSSCG. Their domain is probably kept for backwards compatibility, just like the ccTLD was kept in general.
 * I must point out that the football federations are really SNAFU when it comes to history. For example the Croatian federation considers teams from Banovina Hrvatska, Independent State of Croatia and the Republic of Croatia all the same. Both of the federations seem to have the same motive for doing so - being able to claim historical successes as their own. Clubs do it too. However, it's not encyclopedic to ignore simple historical facts.
 * It would probably be best if we had the original documents pertaining to the definition of the two YFLs - if these texts differ, and they quite likely do, then I wouldn't have only common sense as the rationale for the split ;) --Joy [shallot]   10:01, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Also for Dinamo, because we're describing their alter-egos, I say that their nickname "Croatia" be included in their sub-list. --Hurricane Angel 04:02, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * But it's irrelevant, because it was first renamed to "Croatia" in 1993, two years after they had stopped participating in the Yugoslav First League. If someone wishes to know the name of Dinamo in that later period, they can click through to its article. --Joy [shallot]   10:01, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Merge
I think two article is talk the same league system of SFRY. It is better to merge two, and clean up to showing the succession of FRY league, Croatian league, Kosovo league, Bosnian league, Slovenian League. Matthew_hk  t  c  15:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

FK Vardar
Didn't FK Vardar of Skopje, Macedonia win a league title in 1987? Can somebody please confirm or deny this? Alex 202.10.89.28 07:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

 * from rsssf.com

[3] Ten clubs had started the 1986/87 season with a deduction of 6 points, among them Partizan and Crvena zvezda, because of the events in the previous season. Vardar Skopje, who had not been deducted 6 points, won the title, and participated in the 1987/88 Champions Cup, but the points deduction was later annulled after more legal proceedings, and the title was given to Partizan, who headed the table with the deduction.

Matthew_hk  t  c  08:33, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

 * The legal "proceedings" against Vardar were executed in the SERBIAN court, thus for me, as a Macedonian they are not legal. We saw 5 to 10 years latter what are Serbs prepared to do in order to "win". Hopefully for Macedonia and Macedonians it was only one championship, unlike our friends in Bosnia.... :-( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.29.243.121 (talk) 20:24, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Article name
The title of this article is not accurate. The top level of Yugoslav football was not generally known as the "First League". It should either be renamed to its final name Prva savezna liga, or to the more general Yugoslav football championship.--Thewanderer (talk) 13:10, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hum, I tend to agree. You should raised this issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football to catch a wider audience.--Latouffedisco (talk) 16:30, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree it's rather unaccurate, but on the other hand, the article deals with top flight Yugoslav level, regardless what it was called throughout the decades. Since the format has went to so many changes, especially in the 1920's, 1930's and later on, perhaps the Yugoslav football championship would be a better choice. As for the names of top level leagues, I think it's redundant to put that in the champions' table. The tables are meant to serve as an overview of the topic covered and should be limited to only the most relevant data, and I think there are almost too many tables as it is. Perhaps some accompanying text could be added describing the changes the system went through throughout the years? And maybe we could separate everything apart from the most important stats (champions, goalscorers and performance by club) into a separate article, where a subsection on Yugoslav clubs' achievements in European context could be added? Timbouctou (talk) 06:05, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree. A separate article such as "Yugoslav football championship records" or whatever could be interesting, with achievements of Yugoslav clubs in European competitions. Also I will had an infobox to the article soon, with basic informations.--Latouffedisco (talk) 15:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

SFR Yugoslavia (1945–1992)

 * First, performance by region. OK, don't pretend that Kosovo and Vojvodina didn't exist within Serbia (and had their own football associations). Maybe this could be changed to some sort a footnote in the table indicating Vojvodina's two titles. Suggestions?
 * Second, all time goalscorers. The numbers from rsssf source are not the same as in the table. League matches were probably added from some forum.
 * Third, notable clubs. This section should probably go and be replaced by List of Yugoslav First League clubs which would list all the clubs and their performance etc. In this state, for some clubs information about number of season is incomplete and some clubs are marked bold for I don't know what reason. Dr. Vicodine (talk) 19:07, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1. If the list says it groups clubs by "regions" than whatever is meant by that term should be the criterion (not football associations). I assume here that by region we mean "top level adiministrative division", so SAP Vojvodina and SAP Kosovo clubs should be grouped within the SR Serbia category. If we need more detail, a footnote can suffice. Something along the lines of "FK Vojvodina was a member of the sub-regional Football Association of Vojvodina".
 * 2. I agree. We must go with whatever we have a reliable reference for, so the stats should be reverted back to rsssf, at least until some better source is found.
 * 3. It seems that former league champions are marked bold, although I don't know why. As for your suggestion, perhaps it would be more suitable to use a bulleted multi-column list rather than a full statistics table. The sheer amount of numbers might seem overdetailed and borderline WP:NOTSTATSBOOK, plus you would need a really good reference for it.
 * And btw the article looks overloaded with stats and lists anyway. Perhaps if the prose was expanded a bit we could move most of them to a separate dedicated article?  Timbouctou ( talk ) 23:52, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1. I am OK in principle with any decition, as long as it didn´t stayed the way it stayed for a while where the SAP´s were put in same level as the SR´s and the SAP stats were removed from SR Serbia, as if SR Serbia was the SR Serbia without the SAP´s... It´s all explained at User_talk:Dr._Vicodine. I am OK if we use SR´s only, and I am also OK if we include the SAP´s data as an informative complement, although, there is an issue: the SAP´s were formed as such in 1974, so FK Vojvodina title from 1966 technically doesn´t belong to SAP Vojvodina as it didn´t existed as such at that time...
 * 2. Absolutelly agree on restoring RSSSF stats. If anyone find them wrong, he should provide a source for it thus making it verifiable so the community could eventually decide which numbers are correct.
 * 3. I think Timbou and I spoke about this some years ago, remember Timbou? Not sure exactly where.  In principle, I would agree and favour creating the Yugoslav First League all-time table, here we have RSSSF, or this one although this second is from a less reliable source.  The table could either be made in such a separate article, or in a subsection within a new aticle which could be named Yugoslav First League records and statistics, similarly as the All-time table is found on the Premier League records and statistics.  I am not sure which option is better, and if we have enough material for the second option. FkpCascais (talk) 02:27, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1. Ok, then a footnote would go for Vojvodina. On SAP Vojvodina, infobox states 1963-1990.
 * 3. I meant a separate article for this, not within this one. Something like List of Premier League clubs but maybe with different columns. All-time tables were deleted from wiki some time ago. Yugoslav First League records and statistics would probably be OR since I don't know where would we find references for all that.
 * Side note: FK Sarajevo or Sarajevo, which one should we use? Dr. Vicodine (talk) 07:53, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I sometimes use FK Sarajevo just so there is no doubt with any other Sarajevo clubs. Same with NK Zagreb instead simply Zagreb but I am aware that other editors prefer to simplify it and even I am divided over that issue and don´t have a particular preference.  Personally, I am OK with any option. FkpCascais (talk) 21:44, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Yugoslav First League. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090402053928/http://www.fss.rs:80/cms/item/home/sr/istorijat/HISTORY.html to http://www.fss.rs/cms/item/home/sr/istorijat/HISTORY.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 18:52, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

All-Time First Yugoslav League Table, Željezničar on the top?!
How the hell can Zeljeznicar Sarajevo be on the top here? Someone is trolling obviously. And no way in hell that they could have played more matches and have more points in the First Yugoslav League then Velež Mostar, Sarajevo or Vojvodina. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FKS1946 (talk • contribs) 05:50, 17 October 2017 (UTC)

Yugoslav First League
Zasto si na Yugoslav First League dopisao Vardaru titulu 1987 a Zvezdi nisi 1986? Radi se o istom slucaju Sajber za te 2 sezone. Drugo, lepo sam odvojio u tabeli Interkontinental Kup od Superkupa Evrope jer su to 2 razlicita takmicenja. Jedno je pod okriljem UEFE a drugo FIFE. Nepregledno je tako. Onda si mogao da spojis i Ligu sampiona sa Kupom Uefa po tvojoj logici.

Ref-notes
VucoKralj, please do not engage in an edit war with repeated removal of important content (ref-notes), without any explanation (WP:FIES; in edit summary or talk page), back to how you think it should be (you are removing them altogether). Notes are important part of this article, and you need a consensus (WP:CONS) if you believe it should be removed.-- ౪ Santa ౪ 99°  16:54, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Yugoslav First League


text:
User talk:Wilson 6500

Welcome, from Journalist
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title: User talk:Wilson 6500


text:
Pat Fenlon

Patrick Fenlon (born 15 March 1969) is an Irish football coach and former player.

Fenlon played as a midfielder for St Patrick's Athletic, Bohemians, Linfield, Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne. As a manager he won five League of Ireland titles with Shelbourne and Bohemians between 2003 and 2009. During his time with Bohemians Fenlon also won the FAI Cup in 2008, the League of Ireland Cup in 2009 and the Setanta Sports Cup in 2010. Fenlon moved to Scottish club Hibernian in November 2011, who he helped reach two Scottish Cup Finals, although both were lost heavily.

Playing career
Fenlon was born in Dublin. After playing as a schoolboy with four local clubs, he was with London club Chelsea as a young trainee. A midfielder, he returned home and signed for Brian Kerr's St Patrick's Athletic in 1987 and made his League of Ireland debut on 13 September 1987, against Shelbourne at Harold's Cross Stadium.

Fenlon won the League of Ireland championship with St Pats in 1989–90. In September 1990 he scored against Dinamo Bucharest in the European Cup. After four seasons at St Pats, he signed for Bohemians in the summer of 1991. He scored 29 goals in 88 appearances for Bohs and won the FAI Cup in 1992, as well as the PFAI Player of the Year accolade. In February 1992, Fenlon scored for the Republic of Ireland in a 'B' international against Denmark.

Fenlon signed for Linfield in January 1994, a club supported mainly by fans drawn from Belfast's Protestant community, becoming the first Dublin catholic to do so. Speaking about his time with Linfield twenty years later, Fenlon said he had been abused by fellow Irish Catholics for his decision to join Linfield based on their history. Fenlon won two Irish Cups and one Irish Premier League championship with Linfield. It was Fenlon's goal against Glentoran on the final day of the 1993–94 season which sealed the title for Linfield. He also scored the second goal in the 2–0 win against Bangor in the Irish Cup Final a week later.

In June 1996, he signed for another Dublin club, Shamrock Rovers. But after one season he transferred to Shelbourne,. Whilst playing for Shels he suffered a triple fracture of the shin in a match against Rovers in Tolka Park on 12 February 1999. He recovered from this to help fire Shelbourne to the league and cup double the following season, and secure a second PFAI Player of the Year award. He scored the winning goal for Shelbourne in the 1999/00 FAI Cup final replay, as Shelbourne beat Bohemians 1–0.

Shelbourne
Fenlon started out his management career as player/manager of Shelbourne in 2002. He guided the club to second place in his first season in charge. By the start of the 2003 season, Fenlon had retired from playing to focus solely on the management of the club. The rewards were immediate, and Fenlon took the club to their first ever back-to-back league titles, in 2003 and 2004.

The 2004 season also saw Fenlon lead his squad past Icelandic champions KR Reykjavík and Croatian high-flyers Hajduk Split and into the third (final) qualifying round of the UEFA Champions League, where his Shelbourne side were eventually overturned by Spanish giants Deportivo la Coruña. Following this amazing run, and participation in the First Round of the UEFA Cup against Lille OSC, Fenlon was rewarded with a contract extension. This made him the first manager to reach the third qualifying round of the competition with an Irish club.

2005 promised big things for Fenlon and Shelbourne. However, things did not go exactly as planned. In spite of several big name signings, Shelbourne staggered past the season's finishing-line in a disappointing third place. One of Fenlon's former clubs, Linfield, also beat Shelbourne in the first Setanta Cup final. 2006 saw the return of success. Dogged by continuous rumours involving a move from Tolka Park during the 2006 season, Fenlon guided the club to their third league title in 4 years on 17 November 2006, with a 2–1 victory over rivals Bohemians, which saw the Dubliners claim the title on goal difference.

Derry City
This was followed by reports linking Fenlon to the vacant hot-seat at Derry City left by Stephen Kenny, who had departed the Brandywell Stadium to take up the managers position at Scottish side Dunfermline Athletic. Fenlon resigned from his position as Shelbourne manager on 5 December 2006 and the reports proved true when Derry concluded an agreement with him. In January 2007, Fenlon was awarded the eircom/Soccer Writers Association of Ireland (SWAI) 'Personality of the Year' award after his success during the 2006 season with Shelbourne. However, results at Derry did not favour Fenlon and he resigned his position after just five months. Fenlon was also manager for a series of games for the Republic of Ireland under-23 national team, consisting entirely of League of Ireland players.

Bohemians
On 22 December 2007, he was appointed manager of Bohemians. In 2008, within a year of his appointment, he guided Bohs to their second League of Ireland/FAI Cup double in a decade. The 19 points winning margin in the League was a new record. He won the league in 2009 with Bohs beating arch rivals Shamrock Rovers by 4 points. Bohs also won the League of Ireland Cup that year. Scottish Premier League club Dundee United attempted to appoint him as their manager in January 2010, although their compensation offer of £90,000 was rejected, with Bohemians looking for over £200,000. Bohemians won the Setanta Sports Cup in 2010, but then suffered financial problems.

Hibernian
Fenlon was linked with the manager's position at Hibernian in November 2011. Hibernian were struggling badly in the SPL at the time and were in danger of relegation. Bohemians gave Hibernian permission to talk to Fenlon on 23 November and he was appointed two days later. Unusually, what would be Fenlon's debut game as manager away to Motherwell was abandoned at half time, when one of the Fir Park floodlights caught fire.

Hibs earned only one point from Fenlon's first five matches in charge. On 14 January 2012, Hibs won their first league game under Fenlon, against Dunfermline. With the club still struggling, Fenlon decided to shake up the squad in January 2012 by releasing some players and replacing them with loan signings, including James McPake. The team's form improved and Hibernian made progress in the battle to avoid relegation. Furthermore, a late goal by Leigh Griffiths gave Fenlon's side a 2–1 victory against Aberdeen and a place in the 2012 Scottish Cup Final. Fenlon then guided Hibs to safety in the SPL, but they lost 5–1 in the Scottish Cup Final to Edinburgh derby rivals Hearts and Fenlon was sent to the stand by referee Craig Thomson late in the game.

The 2012–13 season began with 10 new faces in to replace the majority of the side that lost the cup final. Hibs pushed on in the first half of the season and found themselves top of the league after their 3–0 win over Dundee. After a slump in the middle of the season, a 1–0 victory against Dundee on the final day resulted in Hibs finishing 7th in Fenlon's first full season in charge. Hibs also beat Hearts to progress into the 5th round of the Scottish Cup. Wins against Aberdeen, Kilmarnock and Falkirk meant that Hibs reached a second successive Scottish Cup final, which they lost 3–0 to Celtic.

The 2013–14 season began with a humiliating 9–0 aggregate defeat to Swedish side Malmö in the second qualifying round of the Europa League, including a 7–0 reverse at Easter Road in the home leg. Fenlon apologised to the supporters, but the defeats against Malmö placed him under pressure. A run of just one defeat in nine matches left Hibernian safely in mid-table and eased that pressure, but some Hibs fans protested against Fenlon after the team lost a League Cup quarter-final against Hearts. Fenlon resigned on 1 November 2013.

Shamrock Rovers
Fenlon was appointed manager of Shamrock Rovers in August 2014.

Waterford
On 2 January 2017 Fenlon was appointed in a Director of Football role at Waterford. Waterford native Alan Reynolds was also appointed as the club's Head Coach on the same day. Fenlon had worked with Reynolds before at Shelbourne in 2005–2006 where they won the League of Ireland Premier Division together. Waterfords promotion was sealed after Waterfords 3–0 win over Wexford was coupled with nearest challengers Cobh Ramblers 3–0 defeat to Cabinteely and the First Division title was secured with two games to spare and for the first time in ten years Waterford returned to the League of Ireland Premier Division. Fenlon left his post at Waterford in February 2018 to work with the chairman of the club Lee Power as a consultant on his worldwide projects.

Linfield
In November 2018, Fenlon was appointed to a general manager position with Linfield.

Return to Bohemians
In January 2023, Fenlon returned to Bohemians as their Director of Football.

Managerial statistics

 * 1.Includes only league record.

Player

 * St Patrick's Athletic
 * League of Ireland Premier Division (1): 1989–90

 * Bohemians
 * FAI Cup (1): 1991–92
 * Leinster Senior Cup (1): 1993

 * Linfield
 * Irish League (1): 1993–94
 * Irish Cup (2): 1993–94, 1994–95

 * Shamrock Rovers
 * Leinster Senior Cup (1): 1997

 * Shelbourne
 * League of Ireland Premier Division (2): 1999–00, 2001–02
 * FAI Cup (1): 1999–00

Manager

 * Shelbourne
 * League of Ireland Premier Division (3): 2003, 2004, 2006

 * Bohemians
 * League of Ireland Premier Division (2): 2008, 2009
 * FAI Cup (1): 2008
 * Setanta Sports Cup (1): 2009–10
 * League of Ireland Cup (1): 2009

 * Hibernian
 * Scottish Cup
 * Runners-up (2): 2011–12, 2012–13

Individual

 * PFAI Players' Player of the Year (2): 1991–92, 1999–2000
 * SWAI Personality of the Year (2): 2004, 2006

title: Pat Fenlon


text: User talk:212.10.33.174

title: User talk:212.10.33.174


text:
Talk:Wawa, Ontario

Untitled
So Wawa must be noted for something more than a goose and poor hitchhiking. Wawa was described in the songs of Hiawatha by Henry Wadswort longfellow. Is there any information on wether the vocabulary in this poem was based on the actual Ojibwe language?

Trap Rock Mine
It should be noted that this proposed aggregate mine poses significant risks to the environment with little or no government regulation and has spawned a great deal of controversy both locally and nationally.

This subject does not belong on a page discussing the Town of Wawa. The above allegations originate from funded environmental pressure groups and are both incorrect, contentious, biased, and unproven and don't belong here. - This second paragraph disputing the first seems a little biased itself. First of all, you'd think "untrue" or "false" would have done in the place of "incorrect, contentious, biased and unproven". (Also the use of the word "both" followed by four descriptors instead of two makes this comment feel more like an outburst.) As to the actual point of the argument: The Wawa article states that this Trap Rock Mine has caused new excitement amongst Wawa's community. It would be unfair to imply the project's positive impact on the town without acknowledging the controversy surrounding it. The author of the original comment was right regardless of the validity of these environmentalist's claims. Dalhaus 03:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Wawa's Beauty
I visited Wawa with my family several years ago and it was beautiful. I wish to go back to Wawa.

wawa ontario
the histories of wawa currently offered tend to overlook individuals who lived there and made it what it is.a town is just a location. the people give it the character so i would like to mention a few people who contributed to the history of wawa. the list is only partial as i was an immigrant in the sixties. nearly all of the interesting personalities were french canadian and the ones i met were alive when i was there. micky clement was related to a family that started the first tourist camps in northern ontario. in waw he built the chalet at the ski lift, the wawa motor hotel,cabins at various tourist camps as well as his own motels on the highway 3 miles south of wawa.he was also a respected prospector. he designed tables from timber offcuts and sold them in a local gas station. the man had boundless energy. mr turcotte suggested the idea for the first wawa goose. he built a replica fur trading fort next to the michipicoten river 5 miles south of wawwa. in it was a glass church, portraits of the canadian prime ministers. it was his plan to put a paddle wheeler on the michipicoten. the last person i only know as paul who lived on gold street. with three friends in the late 50,s he walked from wawa to sault ste marie and back twice to shame the government into building the highway as they daid it was too difficult with the terrain bill rodger painted the portraits that were in the fort. there are others that could be mentioned but these are the ones that stand out for me80.43.27.169

Map
I think this article needs a map.

I created a map, and placed it on this article. It is not the greatest map in the world. But I thought it was better than no map.

Someone has removed it, without saying why. I'd like an explanation.

Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 00:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Wawa is a community within a municipality. The map is located in the article for Michipicoten. vıdıoman  (talk • contribs) 11:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Okay. But does that mean this article shouldn't also have a map?  Geo Swan 00:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

 * No, community articles do not need maps. In actuality, the Township of Michipicoten has actually renamed itself Municipality of Wawa, so these articles will be merged. vıdıoman  (talk • contribs) 01:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Big Dig
Wawa is famous for the Big Dig in 1971, not just the goose and poor hitchhiking. Can anybody point me to an independent source with a hot link that mentions the Big Dig? I've tried putting a paragraph in the Wawa Ontario page, but Victoria and Albert (who are they?)have removed it despite references to both Ken Dawson who directed the dig and to the archives held at the National Museum of civilisation in Ottawa. Can anyone help me?Ncampling (talk) 14:45, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

 * An unsupported assertion; first ref says nothing about this and the second produces a database error:

During the summer of 1971, Wawa hosted an archaeological field camp, known as the Wawa Drop-In project or the Big Dig, for young hitchhikers travelling along Highway 17. The project was directed by the late Professor KCA Dawson. and supported by the Federal Government as part of its youth employment program. The results of fieldwork at several important sites were never published, though all the records are currently held by the National Museums of Civilisation in Ottawa. .

 * I'm removing it to here pending the provision of reliable sources. See also: Victoria and Albert. --Victoria and Albert (talk) 20:31, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

 * more; this edit is what broke your second reference, so I've undone it and your paragraph is back in the article. Please try again to refine the link and place it in the template. Use preview to check things before you save. Your first reference re Dawson still says nothing about this 'big dig', it's only about Dawson's other activities. --Victoria and Albert (talk) 21:13, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * such as this link, using "Wawa Dawson". --Victoria and Albert (talk) 21:22, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * above now fails; trying again. unimpressed with that database system. --Victoria and Albert (talk) 18:45, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * direct links, might be better. --Victoria and Albert (talk) 18:47, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

wawa is nw of lake superior
In the section regarding lake effect snowfall it should read "a northwest wind" or "winds from the southwest". 206.204.211.24 (talk) 16:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I said that incorrectly."a northeast wind" will create lake effect snowfall for wawa, or "winds from the southwest". 206.204.211.24 (talk) 16:51, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wawa, Ontario


text:
Baqa Jilani

Mohammad Baqa Khan Jilani (20 July 1911 – 2 July 1941) was a bowler who represented India in Test cricket.

Early life and family
Jilani was born in Jalandhar, Punjab on 20 July 1911. He was related by marriage to the family that also produced Majid Khan, Javed Burki and Imran Khan, who is the former Prime Minister of Pakistan).

Career
As a right-arm medium-paced bowler and a decent lower-order batsman, he kicked off his career with twelve wickets on first-class debut. He also took the first hat-trick in Ranji Trophy, for Northern India against Southern Punjab in the semifinal of the first tournament in 1934–35. Southern Punjab was dismissed for 22 which was the lowest total in the competition for 76 years.

Jilani played his only Test match in England in 1936 during a tour wrecked by infighting between two factions supportive of the captain Vizzy and the former captain C. K. Nayudu. Jilani belonged to the former group. A few days before the Test Match at the Oval, Jilani publicly insulted Nayudu while coming down to breakfast. It has been alleged that he owed to this incident his subsequent Test debut, a forgettable affair to which he contributed sixteen runs and fifteen wicketless overs. During the tour, according to Cota Ramaswami, Jilani had high blood pressure, insomnia, sleep-walking and violent outbursts of temper. "Nobody could say when he was normal and when he got into uncontrollable temper. He was constantly undergoing treatment during the tour".

An Extra Assistant Commissioner in Jalandhar, Jilani died a few days before his thirtieth birthday, thus becoming the second-ever Indian Test cricketer, after Amar Singh, to die. He had an epileptic seizure, fell from the balcony of his house in Jullundur, and died instantly.

title: Baqa Jilani


text:
Bobby Simmons

Bobby Simmons (born June 2, 1980) is an American former professional basketball player. During his NBA career, Simmons played for five NBA teams between 2001 and 2012. He won the NBA Most Improved Player Award in 2005.

College career
After graduating from Chicago's Neal F. Simeon High School, Simmons played three years of college basketball for DePaul University. During his three seasons at DePaul, Simmons averaged 13.6 points per game, 7.5 rebounds per game and 2.2 assists per game.

Washington Wizards (2001–2003)
Simmons was selected in the second round (41st pick overall) of the 2001 NBA draft by the Seattle SuperSonics. Simmons's draft rights were traded to the Washington Wizards for Predrag Drobnjak on June 27, 2001.

Simmons was traded by the Wizards on September 11, 2002, shortly before the start of the 2002–03 NBA season, to the Detroit Pistons with Hubert Davis and Richard Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse, Brian Cardinal, and Ratko Varda. He was released by the Pistons on September 24 and, less than two weeks later, signed with the Wizards again on October 10.

Los Angeles Clippers (2003–2005)
Simmons signed a free-agent contract with the Los Angeles Clippers on September 26, 2003.

The 203 cm, 235 lb small forward had a breakout year during the 2004–05 NBA season with the Los Angeles Clippers in which he averaged a career-high 16.4 points per game. That season, on November 3, Simmons scored a team-leading and career-high 30 points during a win over the Seattle SuperSonics. He was rewarded for his stellar play with that season’s NBA Most Improved Player Award.

Milwaukee Bucks (2005–2008)
Simmons signed a free-agent contract with the Milwaukee Bucks on August 8, 2005, shortly after the new collective bargaining agreement was finalized. Since his breakout year with the Clippers, Simmons struggled to reach the same level of play. In his first year with the Bucks, his points, rebounds and shooting percentages all declined. Then in 2006, an ankle injury suffered in training camp during October forced him to miss the entire 2006–07 season. In December of the same year and then January 2007, a surgery to remove bone spurs and surgery to remove a cyst in his foot both complicated his recovery.

New Jersey Nets (2008–2010)
Simmons was traded along with Yi Jianlian to the New Jersey Nets for Richard Jefferson on June 26, 2008, just a few hours before that year's NBA draft. While his season was not as productive as before, he still managed to finish 5th in the league in 3-point shooting percentage.

San Antonio Spurs (2010)
In September 2010, Simmons signed with the San Antonio Spurs; however, the team waived him in November after he went scoreless in 2 games played.

Reno Bighorns (2011–2012)
In March 2011, Simmons signed with the Reno Bighorns of the NBA D-League.

Return to the Clippers (2012)
On February 27, 2012, the Los Angeles Clippers signed Simmons to a 10-day contract. On March 9, 2012, he signed a second 10-day contract with the Clippers. He signed a contract for the rest of the season on March 24, 2012. Simmons' final NBA game was Game 4 of the 2012 Western Conference Semi-Finals against the San Antonino Spurs on May 20, 2012. In his final game, Simmons recorded 2 points on 25% FG shooting in 6 and half minutes of playing time. This was the end of the Clippers' season as they lost Game 4 99 - 102 and thus were swept by the Spurs.

In December 2012, Simmons said that he was still interested in playing professional basketball.

Off the court
Simmons and Lavelle Sykes founded a Chicago clothing store called Succezz. Simmons also owns a nightclub in Chicago called Society.

title: Bobby Simmons


text:
Barton Yarborough

William Barton Yarborough (October 2, 1900 – December 19, 1951) was an American actor who worked extensively in radio drama, primarily on the NBC Radio Network. He is famous for his roles in the Carlton E. Morse productions I Love a Mystery, in which he played Doc Long, and One Man's Family, spending 19 years portraying Clifford Barbour. In addition, Yarborough spent three years portraying Sgt. Ben Romero on Jack Webb's Dragnet.

Early years
He was born in Goldthwaite, Texas. As a youth, Yarborough ran away from home, attracted by the vaudeville stages, and he first worked in radio during the 1920s. After joining a touring musical comedy show, he progressed from bit parts to leading man as the troupe played in various places in Oklahoma and Texas. He attended college at the University of Nevada, Reno, and the University of Southern California, where in 1925 he became a member of Phi Sigma Kappa fraternity.

One of Yarborough's earliest reported activities in acting was in November 1922, when he was a member of the cast of a Rebekah and Odd Fellows lodges production of The Prince Chap in Reno, Nevada. He was active in dramatic productions at the University of California, including a one-act play on radio station KLX in 1924. His work on stage at UC ranged from drama (The Frogs) to farce (She Stoops to Conquer).

Career
After graduating from the University of California in 1925, Yarborough acted in London, New York, and California, having the leading-man role in Outward Bound. He was a member of the Eva Le Gallienne Civic Repertoire in New York City. Yarborough's NBC radio debut was in 1930, broadcasting from San Francisco.

In 1932, Yarborough began a long run as Clifford Barbour on the radio serial One Man's Family, continuing in the role throughout his life. Yarborough was probably best known for his roles as Doc Long in the West Coast cast of Carlton E. Morse's I Love a Mystery (and the subsequent I Love Adventure) and Sergeant Ben Romero, Joe Friday's original partner, on Dragnet.

Yarborough's other radio work includes the title role in Hawk Larabee, as well as the roles of Brazos John in Hawk Durango, Sleepy Stevens in Hashknife Hartley, Skip Turner in Adventures by Morse, also by Carlton E. Morse, and the title attorney's assistant in Attorney for the Defense. Yarborough appeared as Doc Long in three feature films for Columbia Pictures, based on the radio series I Love a Mystery: I Love a Mystery in 1945, The Devil's Mask and The Unknown. Yarborough adopted a Southern accent for the Doc Long character, and would retain the dialect for Dragnet. (In private life Yarborough spoke without a trace of an accent, as evidenced in his motion picture appearances of the early 1940s.) He started work on the Dragnet television series in 1951. However, the day after he filmed the second episode, he suffered a heart attack, and died four days later at age 51. After his death, his One Man's Family character was dropped without explanation while his death was worked into Dragnet by having Ben Romero also die of a heart attack in the episode "The Big Sorrow."

Personal life
Yarborough married radio actress Barbara Jo Allen (later known professionally as Vera Vague). They had a daughter, Joan, and divorced shortly after in 1931. He married again in 1949, to Janet Warren.

Death
Yarborough died of a heart attack in Burbank, California, at age 51. Dragnet was in production at the time, and the radio episode "The Big Sorrow", which aired eight days after Yarborough's death, portrayed Joe Friday dealing with the sudden death of Ben Romero and being assigned a new partner. The like-named television episode, which was broadcast on September 25, 1952, opened with star Jack Webb reciting a dedication of the episode to Yarborough's memory. Yarborough is interred at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Glendale, California.

Selected filmography

 * They Meet Again (1941) – Bob Webster
 * Let's Go Collegiate (1941) – Coach Walsh
 * The Ghost of Frankenstein (1942) – Dr. Kettering
 * Saboteur (1942) – First FBI Man at Mason's House (uncredited)
 * I Love a Mystery (1945) – Doc Long
 * Captain Tugboat Annie (1945) – Missouri Jones
 * The Red Dragon (1945) – Joseph Bradish
 * Idea Girl (1946) – Pete Barlow
 * The Devil's Mask (1946) – Doc Long
 * The Unknown (1946) – Doc Long
 * Wife Wanted (1946) – Walter Desmond
 * Kilroy Was Here (1947) – Prof. Thomas Shepherd
 * Shed No Tears (1948) – 2nd Insurance Investigator (uncredited)
 * The Babe Ruth Story (1948) – Doctor at Huggins Bedside (uncredited)
 * Henry, the Rainmaker (1949) – The Reverend Bascom
 * Deadline – U.S.A. (1952) – Male Secretary (uncredited) (final film role)

title: Barton Yarborough


text:
Talk:Kazuo Ishiguro

Copyright problem
This article has been reverted by a bot to as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) This has been done to remove User:Accotink2's contributions as they have a history of extensive copyright violation and so it is assumed that all of their major contributions are copyright violations. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. VWBot (talk) 14:06, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler within "Literary Characteristics"/Overall appropriateness of the section
Just wanted to point out that the passage "This pathos is often derived from the narrator's actions, or, more often, inaction. In The Remains of the Day, the butler Stevens fails to act on his romantic feelings toward housekeeper Miss Kenton because he cannot reconcile his sense of service with his personal life..." contains a significant spoiler for one of Kazuo Ishiguro's major works for no real reason. Additionally, the entire section is original analysis, so I'm not sure if it's even appropriate for a biographical article on Mr. Ishiguro. I am very new at this, however, so I'll let the bigger brains handle any actual editing. Sandbaths (talk) 23:10, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Insufficient film citation
In the (as far as I can see uneditable) first section of the article, it's noted that Never Let Me Go was made into a movie. This suggests that Never Let Me Go was the only Ishiguro novel made into a film, but The Remains of the Day was released as a film released in 1993, garnering 8 Academy Award nominations and 6 BAFTA Award nominations. So it seems significant.

67.232.68.42 (talk) 22:12, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Need IPA?
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. I've been proficient in Japanese for some time so maybe I am out of touch, but are the names "Kazuo" and "Ishiguro" so hard to read that readers with enough knowledge of linguistics that an IPA rendition would be useful to them would actually need it to attempt to pronounce the name? User:Sheila1988 added a really complex IPA rendering of the name, apparently as in standard Tokyo Japanese, which seemed anachronistic for someone whose parents emigrated from Kyushu with him when he was a toddler and who has lived in the UK ever since, and also seems somewhat dubious in its motivation -- was the point to tell readers that they should pronounce the name in Japanese even though that's nearly impossible for most native speakers of the language he writes in? We don't do that for Haruki Murakami, and Murakami is Japanese so a much stronger case could be made that the standard Japanese pronunciation is the "correct" one. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 12:26, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree. I see no added benefit to the addition of the English IPA other than to separate the subject further from his British heritage and bring him closer to his Japanese heritage. This appears to be editorial POV. I have no experience in Japanese but have no difficulty reading the name Kazuo Ishiguro. I am Ethiopian which perhaps gives me an added NPOV. It has been made abundantly clear that he is a British citizen of Japanese descent.
 * I could be convinced that a Japanese IPA is necessary but that should be in the pronunciation native to the region his family comes from which points out is not Tokyo but Kyushu. —አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 15:13, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I added it to the page since there was a request, but I agree that the need is tenuous. I'm fine with the removal of it; although, I do not agree that it is editorial POV. Nihlus 15:19, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * My apologies. Accusations of POV pushing on my part were not necessary. I am just concerned by the frequent back and forth this article is going through recently with frequent additions of Japanese related POV. I see you were just adding a requested IPA. IMO, an ENG IPA is not necessary but a Japanese IPA maybe necessary as the name in Japanese does seem to be listed in the surname-first style. If the IPA added by or the one added by  is the correct pronunciation of his name in his native region of Kyushu (I am not sure if there are variant pronunciations), it should remain. —አቤል ዳዊት?(Janweh64) (talk) 15:28, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I don't think it's a "Japanese POV" one way or the other. Yes, a few of the sources indicate that Japanese readers often treat him as one of their own, but that's relatively benign. In my experience the Japanese do that with westerners who lived in Japan and adopted Japanese names as well. Mainstream translations of Lafcadio Hearn's works tend overwhelmingly to refer to him as "Koizumi Yakumo" (as opposed to "Rafukadio Hān"), to the point where many of my Japanese teenage students have heard of him but think he simply was Japanese like them. Same with Hideo Levy, whose original given name "Ian" rarely appears on Japanese book jackets from what I can see. Rather, I suspect the "Japanifying" of Ishiguro is a western POV that "foreignizes" him. I've actually been discussing with User:Curly Turkey whether the kanji for his name really belongs in the lead: it's interesting encyclopedic information, and it was his legal name for a long time, so it definitely belongs somewhere in the article, but he is not known by it in English-speaking countries (the bulk of the target audience for his literature), and placing it so prominently in the lead does create the false impression that he is a Japanese writer, not a British one. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 23:18, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to take a strong stand on the kanji issue (though I lead mildly towards keeping it out of the lead), but there's absolutely no way that /ˈkɑːzuːoʊ ˌiːʃiːˈɡuːroʊ/ is a credible rendering of Ishiguro's name. IPA should appear only really when there's a likelihood of mispronunciation, which I doubt is the case here, but if we are going ot have IPA, this can't be it.  The stressed syllables and the "oʊ" indicate it's an "English" pronunication—in which case, why is every vowel long?  that's neither an English nor japanese pronunciation.  The pronunciation Hijiri links to is th esort of thing that belongs in a textbook, never a Wikipedia opening sentence. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:32, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

 * It is not unusual for someone to slightly alter the pronunciation of their name when they visit or move to another country. The IPA-request I added was for how Kazuo Ishiguro himself pronounces the English version of his name. The request is not intended to take a stance in any possible conflict on to which culture he belongs "more". I was not aware of such a conflict and I am not interested to take part is such a discussion. I am, however, interested in helping interested readers to learn how to pronounce Kazuo Ishiguro's name like he himself pronounces it. I think all biographies should write out the pronunciation of the names using the International Phonetic Alphabet. That will help users to read the pronunciation of the names (Even in the case when a sound-file is present in the article because the reader's computer may lack speakers). Readers who don't have English as their native language may have a hard time to differentiate between similar sounds in English. For instance, is the z a voiced consonant here? It may be difficult to perceive for someone speaking a language where that sound does not appear. ("Only about 28% of the world's languages contain a voiced dental or alveolar sibilant.") Which syllables are stressed? What is the exact sound of the last vowel? I'm aware there are readers who are less concerned with pronunciation, but I've read that it is a courtesy to pronounce someone's name the way they want you to pronounce it. An IPA would be helpful. --Bensin (talk) 13:37, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
 * So... English Wikipedia should provide a pronunciation key for readers of English Wikipedia who don't know how to read English? how Kazuo Ishiguro himself pronounces the English version of his name was not specified in your original request, and you didn't make it clear for over two weeks during which several other users chimed in. It really looked like you were requesting the "correct" pronunciation of the name in standard Japanese, since no one would assume your request was meant to help non-English-proficient readers of English Wikipedia. And honestly, the logic of your new rationale would apply to virtually every other biographical article as much as, if not more than, this one. Think about it: the common pronunciation of Ian Murray McKellen would not be at all intuitive to someone with only a rudimentary knowledge of English orthography, but that article doesn't give IPA in the lead sentence, probably because this is English Wikipedia, not Simple English Wikipedia (which is intended for non-native speakers). Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 10:03, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Sure, it is true that someone who don't even know how to read English won't be much helped by an IPA. :-) I'm talking about those who do know English (of any level) but are uncertain how a certain name should be pronounced. What I suggest is that any reader who don't know how to pronounce a name can look it up on Wikipedia. I imagine this is helpful for anyone (but perhaps extra helpful for readers with another native language than English). Even a common name as Ian have alternative pronunciations (see Ian Ziering), and even such a common name as Theresa May (see that talk page for details) may cause doubt for a speaker whose language does not contain all the sounds that appear in English. As far as I'm concerned, the only "correct" pronunciations are the pronunciations that Kazuo Ishiguro himself uses (or prefers). So in this particular case, adding phonetics for both the "English pronunciation" and "Japanese pronunciation" would make sense to me. --Bensin (talk) 15:30, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, you should take your proposal to WT:MOS or WT:BIO: adding both "the Japanese" and "the English" pronunciations (which Japanese and English pronunciations?) to the lead sentence of this particular article would cause the parentheses to take up at least a full line of text on most screens, nothing about your proposal is particular relevant to this topic, and would apply at least as much to almost every other biographical article.
 * And, assuming you are right that Ishiguro himself pronounces his name "in English", then that can't be the only "correct" pronunciation: he was given the name by his parents, and given that his parents lived in Japan until they were adults then if his name has an "English pronunciation" they wouldn't use it.
 * Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 21:47, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying that Ishiguro's pronunciation of his own name "in English" is preferable to Ishiguro's pronunciation of his own name "in Japanese". Both can be added as far as I'm concerned. If it takes up too much space, the information can be added using a footnote named "pronunciation". --Bensin (talk) 17:46, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * IPA wouldn't reflect Ishiguro's own pronunciation; it would reflect how other people might approximate his pronunciation in their own voices. But they can already do that with the standard Hepburn spelling, and you have not been able to demonstrate that they would have a problem doing that. Normally IPA is used in articles like this where the person's own pronunciation differs radically from the intuitive reading (e.g., Kate Mara). Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 22:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Kanji in lead?

 * Note that the leads of Daniel Inouye, Fred Korematsu, and Yuri Kochiyama also include kanji despite none of them ever being in Japan. Kazuo Ishiguro, on the other hand, was actually born in Japan and was there for the first 5 years of his life, and only received British citizenship in 1983. Vivexdino (talk) 23:31, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but they also all have English names that are clearly different from their Japanese ones, meaning that the Japanese name is at least unique information and reflects the name they were probably known by in "private" when their relatives spoke to or about them in Japanese. (Well, with the exception of Kochiyama, but that's complicated.) Telling the reader that Kazuo Ishiguro in Japanese was originally known as Ishiguro Kazuo is not helpful information, and is slightly misleading. I don't find the "he only received British citizenship in his late 20s" argument convincing, as he was already publishing in English before that point, and his main identification document recognized by UK immigration authorities from when he was five until that time was his Japanese passport, which almost certainly had his name printed in English as "Kazuo Ishiguro"; the fact that his Japanese birth cert probably gave the kanji and not the Hepburn is pretty irrelevant. The kanji name is only really useful for people who are primarily known somewhere in the world under the kanji name, and this has never been the case with our present subject. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 23:49, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I still don't see anything wrong with the kanji. The article makes it pretty clear that he's British and no where does the article call him Japanese. Vivexdino (talk) 23:58, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
 * You're missing the point. The burden is on you to explain how including kanji in the lead is useful. Non-Roman text at the stands out far more than any statement that he is British and not Japanese, in the lead or elsewhere.
 * You are wrong if you think the article explicitly, unambiguously, and in a manner that clearly makes my concerns moot, states that "He is British, not Japaneae, and his works are a part of English literature, not Japanese literature". The British titles we give him don't help, since he could have those by virtue of holding British citizenship and having had his Japanese books widely read in English translation -- we present Jin Yong the same way and his books aren't widely read in languages other than Chinese. Giving his Japanese name so prominently creates the impression that somewhere in the world, at some point, he has published writings under that name. It doesn't serve any other purpose.
 * Another point that didn't occur to me until just now is that, appearing in the lead but not the body, as opposed to the body but not the lead, means it is not sourced and is difficukt to request a source. I actually suspect reliable sources giving his name's 漢字表記 might be in short supply, since he was almost certainly not a well-known writer in Japan before he became a British citizen -- maybe the book jackets of Japanese translations of his works give the kanji in parentheses, or maybe they actually appear under his "Japanese name" (see the Lafcadio Hearn comparison above)? But we certainly won't find a lot of English sources that give his name in kanji, which makes one wonder why an English-language encyclopedia article would feel the need to give it such prominence.
 * Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 02:28, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Then we should also remove the kanji from Yoichiro Nambu and Shuji Nakamura using that argument. I find it extremely hypocritical how you make a big deal out of this article having kanji and not other articles like Daniel Inouye, Fred Korematsu, and Yuri Kochiyama, even though those people are purely American and have absolutely no connection to Japan whatsoever. If anything, this article downplays his Japaneseness even though Ishiguro himself has described it as a big part of his identity. Vivexdino (talk) 02:44, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Then we should also remove the kanji from Yoichiro Nambu and Shuji Nakamura using that argument. What argument? I made several different ones. But it doesn't really matter, since nothing I wrote applies to either Nambu or Nakamura, both of whom did things that made them notable in Japan before ever moving to America, which they did as adults, and both are clearly known in Japan by their names as written in kanji.
 * I find it extremely hypocritical how you make a big deal out of this article having kanji and not other articles like Daniel Inouye, Fred Korematsu, and Yuri Kochiyama You're the one making a big deal out of it, and given that I have never edited any of those articles (I never even read the latter two until you brought them up, I find it pretty confusing why you would call me a hypocrite for not making particular edits to particular Wikipedia articles on topics I'm not interested in. You should strike that ad hominem remark, by the way.
 * even though those people are purely American and have absolutely no connection to Japan whatsoever As I have already told you several times, I am not interested in editing those other unrelated articles., but there is a reasonable case to be made that since those people had both Japanese and English names, noting both (and writing the former in Japanese script) is theoretically justifiable. But, again, you should take that argument to those talk pages if you have a problem with giving both the Japanese and English names of "pure" Americans with "absolutely no connection to Japan whatsoever". I'm arguing about unsourced content misleading readers of this BLP (all three of the examples you give have been dead for years) into considering Ishiguro a "Japanese author", something Ishiguro himself has noted as a common and problematic misconception about him and his work.
 * If anything, this article downplays his Japaneseness even though Ishiguro himself has described it as a big part of his identity. Umm ... citation needed? Ishiguro is notable exclusively as a writer, but no discussion of modern Japanese literature would mention him except possible as a western reader of it. He has said in interviews that he doesn't read Japanese (the source we currently cite for his naturalization implies that this was one of the reasons he decided to become a British citizen rather than renewing his Japanese passport).
 * Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 03:14, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Most people would simply see the kanji as indicating he is of Japanese descent, and would simply skim past it as they can't read it. You're the one reading into it as giving the impression he is still a Japanese citizen and part of Japanese literature, completely ignoring the rest of the article and simply focusing on some minor kanji that most people skim past. You justify other articles including kanji because it "reflects the name they were probably known by in "private" when their relatives spoke to or about them in Japanese" applies moreso in Ishiguro's case compared to them. How you see this article implying that he is not a British author and not part if English literature, simply astounds me. If you're simply making a big deal out of this because you want to erase his Japanese heritage or ethnicity from the article, then you would need to wait to get consensus. Vivexdino (talk) 03:44, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Vivex, I have better things to do with my time than argue with you indefinitely over a change I didn't even propose making to the article, which you apparently "read into" a comment that was actually about something completely unrelated. I'll leave others to contemplate why on earth you did this, but I see no reason to waste any more time on it. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 05:13, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Like I said above, I'm not taking an actual stance on the kanji issue, but if forced at gunpoint based solely on the arguments offered here, I'd have to say Hijiri's making a stronger argument. It's unlikely that "most people would simply see the kanji as indicating he is of Japanese descent", especially given how many people hwo have actually read his books assume them to be translations from Japanese.  The kanji is a straight fact from the subject's biography, but it's placement wihtin the first several bytes of the lead could be misleading and might violate WP:WEIGHT.  It also doesn't serve the purpose it would in properly "japanese" articles, where many people (such as myself) consult the lead to find the correct kanji for the subject to perform searched in Japanese.  Searching for Ishiguro's kanji won't get the desired results, as his name is spelt in katakana in Japanese works about him, and the vast majority of writing about him will be in English. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:42, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

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Related discussion
I have started a discussion at Template talk:Kazuo Ishiguro concerning which category Template:Kazuo Ishiguro should be in, which is of relevance to this article. Dunarc (talk) 16:41, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Place of Birth/previous nationalities in the lead
Per Wikipedia guidelines as specified in WP:Ethnicity, place of birth, previous nationalities, and/or place of birth are not included in the lead unless directly relevant to notability. Specifically, the country of permanent residence and/or nationality during which notability was achieved is the one included in the lead. For this individual, this was the U.K., as a British citizen. Furthermore, Japan does not permit dual citizenship. Therefore, the phrase "Japanese" and/or "Japanese-born" should not be in the lead but rather, further down in the article. Apoorva Iyer (talk) 02:38, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Archive index missing
What I said. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:00, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Graham 87 17:22, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kazuo Ishiguro


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Machete Productions

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. Paul August ☎ 03:46, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

Machete Productions

 * Delete Varity---Aranda56 02:34, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - Not notable - Tεx  τ  urε  20:58, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete same as above. --Rschen7754 22:30, August 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.