text:
Talk:Standard social science model

POV
The article cannot hide it's negative bias towards those who criticize the SSSM. In essence, it argues that the SSSM is a straw man.

What?? The above two sentences contradict... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.125.244 (talk) 18:15, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

IMO The article cannot hide its bias AGAINST the SSSM. It presents the "facts" of SSSM in a condescending way, and the biggest part of the page is the criticism of the SSSM section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.229.248.46 (talk) 20:09, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * SSSM is a strawman. Of course the article has to show that.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 20:30, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Unsupported claims
Most sentences make assertions that need to be backed up. I pointed out several with --citation needed--

Style
The article relies heavily on weasel words:
 * "Thinkers in the EP tradition have argued…"
 * "…it has been questioned…"
 * "It has been argued…"

Map
A map is a drawing or chart that represents something.

Ex:

Amusement park map     Museum map World map              Mall map School map             Route map Town map State map

Silly cites request
The first request for citation is in a sentence which is a cite to a book.

Is this reasonable? Keith Henson (talk) 16:47, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

 * It is unclear what in the intro is a book citation. Either the citation is to be expressly highlighted as a citation, or if it is not literal, then a reference is needed. The article refers to a lot of books, but not by the usual reference system of wikipedia. Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 13:51, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with SSSM
This quoted part should be deleted:

"Literature- literally translated, means "acquaintance with letters" and therefore the academic study of literature is known as Letters. In Western culture the most basic written literary types include fiction and nonfiction. Poetry - is a form of literary art in which language is used for its aesthetic and evocative qualities in addition to, or in lieu of, its apparent meaning. Poetry may be written independently, as discrete poems, or may occur in conjunction with other arts, as in poetic drama, hymns, lyrics, or prose poetry. It is published in dedicated magazines individual collections and wider anthologies, although it is rare to see anything other than lyric poetry outside of collections.

Drama - though it has also come to refer to a specific genre of fiction involving a serious mood and conflict. The term comes from a Greek word meaning "action". The enactment of drama in theatre, performed by actors on a stage before an audience, presupposes collaborative modes of production and a collective form of reception. The structure of dramatic texts, unlike other forms of literature, is directly influenced by this collaborative production and collective reception. The early modern tragedy Hamlet (1601) by Shakespeare and the classical Athenian tragedy Oedipus the King (c. 429 BCE) by Sophocles are among the supreme masterpieces of the art of drama.

Short story- is a work of fiction that is usually written in prose, often in narrative format. This format tends to be more pointed than longer works of fiction, such as novellas and novels or books. Short story definitions based upon length differ somewhat even among professional writers, due somewhat in part to the fragmentation of the medium into genres. Since the short story format includes a wide range of genres and styles, the actual length is determined by the individual author's preference and the submission guidelines relevant to the story's actual market. Guidelines vary greatly among publishers. Novella - is a written, fictional, prose narrative longer than a novelette but shorter than a novel. The Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America Nebula Awards for science fiction define the novella as having a word count between 17,500 and 40,000.Other definitions start as low as 10,000 words and run as high as 70,000 words. Novel - is a long narrative in literary prose. The genre has historical roots both in the fields of the medieval and early modern romance and in the tradition of the novella. The latter supplied the present generic term in the late 18th century." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joxa (talk • contribs) 16:56, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Proponents or opponents?
I think there is a typo (or "thinko") in the first sentence here, which I quote here:

 * The term the Standard Social Science Model (SSSM) was first introduced to a wide audience in the 1992 edited volume The Adapted Mind, and is commonly used by proponents of evolutionary psychology (EP)[citation needed] to describe a "blank slate"......(bold italiacs mine)

Shouldn't it be opponents of evolutionary psychology (EP), since it is the proponents of EP who want to get rid of the SSSM? 16:16, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

--NO because it was EPs that CREATED the term SSSM. EPs use the term to refer to what they are arguing against. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.248.68.126 (talk) 13:37, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

A POV-pushing straw-man argument
This article is nothing more than a straw-man argument, and tells us nothing whatever about "the dominant theoretical paradigm in the social sciences". As such it is utterly unencyclopaedic, and has no place in Wikipedia. Unless someone can find evidence that proponents of this so-called 'model' actually represent anything the social sciences have taken as such (rather than a few cherry-picked examples, taken out of context) it needs to be deleted as the bit of vacuous fluff it is.

Oh, and since when has Steven Jay Gould been a social scientist? AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:24, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Encyclopedia Britannica mentions the SSSM, so that seems pretty mainstream. Also, Gould was a social scientist starting in 1975 when he attacked sociobiology and proposed in its place the theory of "biological potentiality." He was wrong and misinformed as a social scientist, but he sure made himself out to be one. Leadwind  (talk) 23:03, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Utter nonsense, as usual. If the SSSM was mainstream, rather than a figment of the pro-EPers' imaginations, it would be possible to find sources arguing in favour of it. Nobody ever has, because there aren't any.

 * And where has anyone described Gould as a social scientist? AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:26, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Didn't John Money argue in favor of the SSSM? I think he did. Do you think he didn't? When Emile Durkheim said that you can only explain social facts via other social facts, that's the SSSM. When Margaret Mead said that people across the globe don't share facial expressions for a handful of basic emotions, that's the SSSM. When Gould said that a normal variation among genes can't generate differences in the behavior of indviduals, that's the SSSM.  Leadwind  (talk) 00:50, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

 * No it isn't. What 'you think' is WP:OR. Either find sources that actually state that these individuals supported the so-called SSSM, or take your bogus 'model' elsewhere. It says a great deal about the validity of EP that its proponents have to resort to making up fictitious 'paradigms' to justify their position. Or do some of them actually think that science should be based on verifiable data? AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:11, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Leadwind, the only reason I made unreferenced changes, is because much of this page is itself unreferenced. I was trying to prove a point by getting someone's attention and by making the problems of this page a bit more obvious. Andy's changes are a welcome compromise. I have also included a couple of references for others claiming it to be a false dichotomy. I can provide more, but I doubt you'd want this ridiculous page turning into a pure criticism page. Logic prevails (talk) 09:45, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

 * I'd say that the current text is neutral. The SSSM idea is stated to be invented and used by Barkow et al. Which is true. The article also no longer says that evolutionary psychologists support the idea, because this is not true. Not all EP's support this view. Furthermore, there is a critique section (poorly written and sourced, but getting there). Is this not exactly what is to be expected of an encyclopedia?

 * The actual dispute about whether or not some examples count as SSSM is unnecessary, all we need to add is examples of things that are claimed to be examples of it in Adapted Mind. 88.114.154.216 (talk) 13:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Still POV?
I've come into this debate (above) and page rather late. I'm a little worried that this page focuses mainly on critiques of the SSSM argument, and not very much on either the initial argument or responses to those critiques. I'm tempted to put a POV tag on the page. Don't get me wrong, the critiques need to be there, but the page needs better balance still. StoneProphet11 (talk) 23:29, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Alternatively instead of adding a POV tag you coud add the content you think is missing. If you are able to do that, that would be more useful to our readers.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:29, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

 * A fair enough point although...it would need a lot, I think, more than the effort of one person. It's also not my immediate area, so it would be good to draw in some specialists from ev psyche who are more knowledgeable than I.  StoneProphet11 (talk) 21:48, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Um, no. 'Specialists from ev psyche' aren't what is needed. This is a debate about social science - the appropriate specialists are social scientists. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:31, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Back-and-forth dialogue between evolutionary psychologists and social scientists is discouraged per WP:NPOV. We describe what evolutionary psychologists regard as the SSSM, they get to make their argument, and then social scientists get to make their argument. If we add EP responses to social scientists' critiques, we would need to add social scientists' responses to EP responses to social scientists' critiques, and so on. It's best to have present both views without infinite back-an-forth responses and counter-responses. Yes, it would probably be best to expand Tooby and Cosmides' view, but I don't see a reason for the POV tag. -- Sonic Y (talk) 11:57, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Citations list useful for updating this article and related articles
You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of Anthropology and Human Biology Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human genetics and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library system at a university with an active research program in these issues (and to other academic libraries in the same large metropolitan area) and have been researching these issues from time to time since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human genetics to edit them according to the Wikipedia standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 18:44, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Delete Alleged Proponents section
In Pinker's book - The Blank Slate - he never claims that any one of the people given in this section support SSSM.

Pinker associates all the people mentioned in this section as supporters of some or all of the philosophies/theories related to the "blank slate", "relativist", "social constructionist" and "cultural determinist" that are referenced within SSSM.

It is misleading to assume Pinker believes these people support SSSM when in fact they may only support some portion of it or they may even outright dismiss it.

Perhaps there are better sources for names of people who directly support SSSM, but Pinker's book is not one of them. Please look for a better source.

I intend to delete this section based on the reference that was used (Pinker's book) because the book never states that these people support SSSM.

Please comment. PeterEdits (talk) 19:29, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

 * I disagree with deleting the whole section. I think one has to distinguish between what Pinker or other EPs believe about people, and what the people say themselves. The SSM is controversial because it makes a disputed claim about what social scientists have actually thought. It's an accusation. Pinker's approach is to disregard denials if he doesn't believe them (To my mind Pinker is a rather binary writer when it comes to ideas that he doesn't like.)

 * Franz Boas - Pinker explicitly states that Boas didn't believe in the blank slate. Fair to delete his name.
 * Margaret Mead - I think it's absolutely clear that Pinker does see Mead as a Blank Slater academically, but also of having double standards because she made non-blank slate statements about herself (p. 422)
 * B. F. Skinner - It's really clear that Pinker consider him a blank slater (see p. 20). I don't see any other plausible reading.
 * Richard Lewontin - No question Pinker sees him as a blank slater. Pinker calls the title of one of his articles "defiantly blank slate". Pinker notes that Lewontin along with Gould denied they are blank slaters, but Pinker thinks their denials are feeble, and actually part of a "debating tactic" (p. 122)
 * John Money - It's ambiguous as far as I can see. Fair to delete.
 * Stephen Jay Gould - see Lewontin. Pinker describes Gould as less doctrinaire, but still fundamentally a blank slater.
 * Just to repeat the point, the issue to me is who is a blank slater in Pinker's view. OsFish (talk) 03:02, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

SSSM as an ideal type
SSSM was clearly overstated as a rigorous model of social science thought, but it makes considerable sense as an ideal or polar type. No one on either side of the edit wars seems to recognize that. I think there quite clearly was a sea change in predominant social science thought that led to a new appreciation for innateness. (I think the structuralists rather than the evolutionary psychologists were the earliest proponents.) SSSM can be seen as satire on those who deprecated innateness, but it is a satire that has real bite. This page reads like collection of folks fighting old wars. Evidently the SSSM critique hit home--but the SSSM defenders don't know how to defend it. Burressd (talk) 13:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

 * I agree. Probably nobody identifies as an SSSM theorist. SSSM is used as a shorthand for a number of fashionable theories that are critized for ignoring contradicting evidence from the more biologically oriented sciences. 130.225.93.40 (talk) 11:33, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Precisely. Tooby and Cosmides conflated and summarized trends in social-science thinking which (broadly) placed cultural factors over biological ones, and gave them a catchy label. The debate between nature and nurture will run and run, and it's not the job of any article to join in the fun. What are the facts? The theories conflated as SSSM exist and have been promulgated. That isn't the definition of a straw man (straw person, to be inclusive?) Some agree with the theories, some (specifically Evolutionary Psychologists) disagree. Neither changes the fact that the theories exist. My personal interest is in the forcible reassignment of intersex males as female, and the pitfalls that have been recognized, including by former proponents. But it's hard to believe than proponents of neonatal sex reassignment didn't have in mind some version of the theory we call SSSM Chrismorey (talk) 12:11, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Standard social science model


text:
Advanced Design System

Advanced Design System (ADS) is an electronic design automation software system produced by PathWave Design, a division of Keysight Technologies. It provides an integrated design environment to designers of RF electronic products such as mobile phones, pagers, wireless networks, satellite communications, radar systems, and high-speed data links.

Keysight ADS supports every step of the design process — schematic capture, layout, design rule checking, frequency-domain and time-domain circuit simulation, and electromagnetic field simulation — allowing the engineer to fully characterize and optimize an RF design without changing tools.

Keysight has donated copies of the ADS software to the electrical engineering departments at many universities.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Advanced Design System


text:
Category talk:Organists by nationality

Why is there no sub-category for "American organists," of which Wiki has many articles (E. Power Biggs, Virgil Fox, et al.)?

There should be age information about each performer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Contribuidor (talk • contribs) 03:02, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Organists by nationality


text: Talk:Trinity Western University

title: Talk:Trinity Western University


text:
Exercise Deep Sabre

Exercise Deep Sabre was a multi-national maritime interdiction exercise conducted in August 2005 in South China Sea.

Launched at the Changi Naval Base in Singapore, the exercise was part of the Proliferation Security Initiative. It involved some 2,000 personnel from the military, coast guard, customs and other agencies of 13 countries, including Singapore, Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, the United Kingdom and the US. Ten ships and six maritime patrol aircraft were involved in the exercise that aimed to develop and practice effective procedures to prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

Sea Phase
The sea phase of the exercise was conducted during 15-17 August 2005.

It began with the deployment of maritime and air assets from participating countries to detect, localise and track the merchant ship (simulated by MV Avatar) transporting the illegal shipment of dual-use chemicals. Once located, a request was made for the ship to voluntarily divert to port for a search. When the ship’s master refused, flag state consent was sought, and given, for the ship to be interdicted and diverted to Singapore for the port search.

A team from the Republic of Singapore Navy’s Naval Diving Unit (NDU) was the first to board the vessel. After the ship was secured by the NDU team, follow-on forces from the Singapore Armed Forces Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Explosive Defence Group, the Japan Coast Guard and Australian Customs Service boarded the vessel and conducted a preliminary search and investigation. Following indications of a suspicious cargo on board, the ship was escorted to Singapore’s port for a detailed search by domestic enforcement agencies.

Port Search Phase
From Aug 15-19 2005 joint government and military teams searched cargo container in Singapore's Pasir Panjang Scanning Station for weapons of mass destruction.

title: Exercise Deep Sabre


text:
Talk:Gravitar

Untitled
It's true Gravitar wasn't popular. Part of the reason: Extremely difficult game to play. But challenging for the expert players.

I've merged Gravitar (arcade game) here. That article was apparently split from here some time in the past, so part of this article's history is there. --Kizor 13:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that Lunar Battle be merged into Gravitar. I think that the content in the article can easily be explained in the context of Gravitar.TheLongTone (talk) 12:52, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Lunar Battle (prototype) text
I have permission to use Dan Coogan's page as a source of information. The text is a direct copy from his page, which has been referenced accordingly. There are no copyright infringements. Thank you. (talk) 0:48, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Gravitar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20120709105747/http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1579 to http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1579

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title: Talk:Gravitar


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Antarctica (Stargate)

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Merge. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 00:18, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Antarctica (Stargate)
Please do not vote merge and delete, those actions are incompatible. Merging requires the hsitory of an article to be retained (in for example a redirection). - Mgm|(talk) 12:15, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete article and merge content with the Stargate articles . This topic isn't notable enough to warrant a separate article. —Charles O'Rourke 06:06, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. User Staxringold had orginally added this material to the Antarctica article; first on it's own; then created a "Pop Culture References" section just to throw in a lenthy StarGate plug. --Madchester 06:09, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Whatever I'm merely trying to get this piece of content put somewhere appropriate. I apologize if I've fouled this up, I am new to actually adding wiki content. Put this wherever you think is appropriate, I just don't see where it would go for the regular Stargate sections. --staxringold
 * Comment. You should discuss some of your proposed articles beforehand on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stargate page, to get a better feel of whether they're actually notable for inclusion on Wikipedia. --Madchester 06:19, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. Could I just get a suggestion where to put it finally, then go ahead with the deletion? I think the content is worth posting, I just need direction with precisely where to put it.
 * I'm not familiar with the current Stargate project or the peeps working on it, but just feel free to drop a message on that talk page, and I'm sure that that the regulars there will decide whether the article is worthy for inclusion. There may be someone already working on a similar article for all I know. They already have some timeline for articles to be created, so just chat it up with them first. --Madchester 06:29, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and Redirect to Stargate SG-1. RasputinAXP   talk  *  contribs  13:54, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Merge into the primary Stargate article.Gateman1997 16:41, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to the two episodes where they do a lot in Antarctica - the where they get trapped there and the one where they fight there. Put everything in between in the first with a special spoiler saying "OMG SPOILERS FOR EPISODES AFTER THIS ONE". --SPUI (talk) 16:46, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge notable info with Stargate SG-1 and DELETE this page with all history and all. Or did I miss a crucial point here? Or should I vote Merge & Do Not Redirect. Anyway - the point is that a redirect with this title would be pointless. Maybe I should present my case at Deletion reform. -- Zanaq 19:27, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge I think I understand a little bit better now. I agree this needs merging with the main SG page as opposed to it's own article. (staxringold)
 * Merge into main Stargate article. -- Etacar11   03:48, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete, do not redirect. -- Naive cynic 08:41, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge, as per above Roodog2k 18:28, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


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Randy Brooks (actor)

Randy Brooks is an American television and film actor known for his role as L.A.P.D. Detective Holdaway in the 1992 hit cult film Reservoir Dogs. Brooks also starred in the 1988 hit drama film Colors.

Brooks is also well known in the soap opera community; he starred on Generations in 1990 as Eric Royal, on The Young and the Restless as Nathan Hastings from 1992 to 1995, on Another World as Marshall Lincoln Kramer from 1994 to 1995, and on All My Children as Hayes Grady in 1996.

He has starred in a couple of short-lived television series, including Brothers and Sisters in 1979, The Renegades in 1983, and Emerald Point N.A.S. in 1983.

Brooks has made many guest appearances on many television shows, including One Day at a Time, The Fall Guy, In the Heat of the Night, The White Shadow, Hill Street Blues, The Jeffersons, Hunter, 21 Jump Street, Murder, She Wrote, Family Law, and Judging Amy. He had a recurring role as White House reporter Arthur Leeds on The West Wing.

He was previously married to Karyn Parsons.

Filmography

 * Halls of Anger (1970) – Sabin
 * The Monkey Hustle (1976) – Win
 * Underground Aces (1981) – Ollie
 * Senior Trip (1981, TV Movie) – David
 * The Jeffersons (1984, TV series 10x 12) – Walter
 * 8 Million Ways to Die (1986) – Chance
 * Assassination (1987) – Tyler Loudermilk
 * Colors (1988) – Ron Delaney
 * Black Snow (1990) – The Afrikan
 * Daughter of the Streets (1990, TV Movie) – Byron
 * Defenseless (1991) – Monroe
 * Reservoir Dogs (1992) – Detective Holdaway
 * Miracle in the Woods (1997, TV Movie) – Henry Cooper Sr.
 * Rocket's Red Glare (2000, TV Movie) – Owen
 * Redemption (2002) – Phillips
 * Don't Touch if You Ain't Prayed (2005) – Jordan Bryant
 * VooDoo Curse: The Giddeh (2006) – Professor Harris
 * Sorority Sister Slaughter (2007) – Billy Bart

title: Randy Brooks (actor)


text:
Point of Ayre

The Point of Ayre (Kione ny Hayrey) is the northernmost point of the Isle of Man. It lies at the northern end of Ramsey Bay 10 km north of the town of Ramsey. The point can be accessed by the A16 road from Bride. Point of Ayre lighthouse, the oldest lighthouse on the Isle of Man, is located here.

It is the closest point on the Isle of Man to Great Britain, being 26 km south of Burrow Head in Scotland.

The name Ayre comes from the Norse word Eyrr meaning gravel bank. Strong currents offshore cause an ever-changing build-up of shingle, so that the beach changes shape with each tide.

A tidal range at the Point of Ayre provides excellent fishing from the beach. Visitors are attracted by the gorse and heather which surrounds the lighthouse and merges with sand dunes stretching to the south-west, providing cover for rare wild flowers and forming part of a Manx National Heritage Nature Reserve. A variety of land and sea birds visit the area throughout the year, as do a number of grey seals.

title: Point of Ayre


text:
Pope Mark IV of Alexandria

Pope Mark IV of Alexandria (born al-As‘ad Faraj) was the 84th Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of the See of St. Mark from 1348/1349 to 1363.

The episcopate of Pope Mark IV (البابا مرقس الرابع) lasted for 14 years, 4 months and 26 days from 5 September 1348 AD (8 Thout 1064 AM) to 31 January 1363 AD (8 Amsheer 1079 AM). He died on 31 January 1363 AD and was buried in the monastery of Shahran (دير شهران). The See of St Mark remained vacant for 3 months and 6 days after his death.

In his time, the Papal Residence was at the Church of The Holy Virgin Mary & St Mercurius in Haret Zuweila (حارة زويلة) in Coptic Cairo.

Biography
After the death of his predecessor Pope Peter V (the 83rd Patriarch of Alexandria) on 6 July 1348, the Episcopal Seat remained vacant for two months (60 days). A monk (and also a priest) by the name of Gabriel (أبونا الراهب القس غبريال) from the Monastery of Shahran (دير شهران) was chosen as patriarch under the name Pope Mark IV of Alexandria. It was the monastery where his predecessor, Pope Peter V, used to be its priest before his elevation to the episcopal seat in 1340. At the time of his elevation to the episcopal seat, Gabriel was assigned to serve at the Church of the Holy Virgin Mary and St Damiana, known as the Hanging Church in Coptic Cairo (كنيسة العذراء المعروفة بالمعلقة). Gabriel was also one of those who attended the consecration of the Holy Oil of Chrismation (Miron) in 1342 at the time of his predecessor, Pope Peter V (Episcopate 1340 - 1348).

His name at birth was Farag-Allah (فرج الله). He was from the city of Qaliub, in the Nile delta, just to the north of Cairo. He was a monk at the monastery of Shahran (دير شهران) who then became a priest at the same monastery and then was assigned to serve at the Church of the Holy Virgin Mary and St Damiana, known as the Hanging Church in Coptic Cairo (كنيسة العذراء المعروفة بالمعلقة). Finally, he became the 84th Patriarch on 5 September 1348.

Mark IV died on 31 January 1363.

title: Pope Mark IV of Alexandria


text:
Balkan Pact

The Balkan Pact, or Balkan Entente, was a treaty signed by Greece, Romania, Turkey and Yugoslavia on 9 February 1934 in Athens, aimed at maintaining the geopolitical status quo in the region after the end of World War I. To present a united front against Bulgarian designs on their territories, the signatories agreed to suspend all disputed territorial claims against one another and their immediate neighbours following the aftermath of the war and a rise in various regional irredentist tensions.

Other nations in the region that had been involved in related diplomacy refused to sign the document, including Italy, Albania, Bulgaria, Hungary and the Soviet Union. The pact became effective on the day that it was signed and was registered in the League of Nations Treaty Series on 1 October 1934.

The Balkan Pact helped to ensure peace between the signatory nations but failed to end regional intrigues. Although the pact was designed against Bulgaria, on 31 July 1938, its members signed the Salonika Agreement with Bulgaria, which repealed the clauses of the Treaty of Neuilly-sur-Seine and Treaty of Lausanne that had mandated demilitarised zones at Bulgaria's borders with Greece and Turkey, which allowed Bulgaria to rearm.

With the 1940 Treaty of Craiova signed by Romania under Nazi Germany's pressure, and after the 1941 Axis invasions of Yugoslavia and Greece, the pact effectively ceased to exist and Turkey remained as its only signatory that had avoided any conflict during WWII, even after joining the Allies in 1945.

title: Balkan Pact


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Circular Album

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 00:21, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Circular_Album
This really seems to be a neologism, as a google test for "circular album" returns very few results, all of which are in the context of describing an album, and not as a widespread or notable concept. Therefore, this article should be deleted. Static3d 06:08, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge all but the name with Music loop as it could add interest there as a distinct section. Alf 12:34, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment I like the article, and can think of a few more albums to list. If it must be moved, It would probably fit better under Song cycle, as it already has a mention of the circular album.  Dr Ellipso 14:49, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment The only link to the Circular_Album page on Wikipedia is, in fact, on the Song cycle page. However, the original author of the Circular Album page placed it there, and it was a simple replacement of the words "song cycle" in the final paragraph and rendered nearly all text after the link incorrect. To be specific, the paragraph talks about song cycles in popular music, then the inserted text reads "Other circular albums in popular music include: ..."  It suddenly jumps to an unrelated (an incorrect) concept.  Albums like this really do exist, and info about them could be added to the song cycle page, possibly by saying something like "certain albums take the concept of a song cycle even further, by allowing seamless looping of the entire album."  Obviously, the term "circular album" shouldn't appear anywhere. Static3d 02:56, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete. Neologism. Unless this is already a named concept in music, which it doesn't appear to be, then naming it and categorizing albums as "circular" albums is original research. android  79  16:38, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Neologism. Flowerparty  talk 19:34, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: the only available evidence is that this is a neologism as the nominator suggests. -Splash 22:17, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep: As creator of the article, I feel I should have a say. I created it with the best intentions, linked a few albums I considered circular, and hoped other users would link other albums, as well as linking this article in the album's article.  I never got around to it, and I was intimidated by adding unnessesary edits to constantly watched articles like The Wall.  However, I do think it's worth noting and recording the names of albums where the beginning and endings "match up" so to speak, wheather in the album's article or in it's own article.  I reluctantly approve of merging this article with music loop or song cycle, to preserve the information written.  --Insomniak 18:13, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


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text: User talk:70.111.82.204

title: User talk:70.111.82.204


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User talk:Troublescoot

Please do not blank discussion threads. That is considered a form of vandalism. Rossami (talk) 06:12, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Troublescoot


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River Sulby

River Sulby can refer to one of two rivers on the Isle of Man:

 * The longest river on the island, rising on Snaefell near the Sulby Reservoir and running north through Sulby Glen and then east, for 18 kilometers, before reaching the coast at Ramsey (54.32361°N, -4.37917°W). It is crossed in Ramsey by the Victorian Ramsey swing bridge, built in 1892.
 * A tributary which rises to the west of Creg-ny-Baa, and flows south-west for about 4 km before joining the River Glass. 54.18539°N, -4.50061°W

title: River Sulby


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Union of Catholic University Students of the Republic of Indonesia

The Union of Catholic University Students of the Republic of Indonesia (Perhimpunan Mahasiswa Katolik Republik Indonesia, PMKRI), is a nationwide social organisation in Indonesia. PMKRI was founded in Yogyakarta on May 25, 1947.


text: User talk:129.119.251.58

title: User talk:129.119.251.58


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Pygocentrus

Pygocentrus is a genus of the piranha family Serrasalmidae. All species are native to tropical and subtropical South America. All the species are predatory, scavengers and may form large schools. The famous red-bellied piranha, Pygocentrus nattereri, is one of four species in the genus.

Species
There are currently four recognized species in this genus:

 * Pygocentrus cariba (Humboldt, 1821) (black spot piranha) – Orinoco river basin.
 * Pygocentrus nattereri Kner, 1858 (red piranha, red-bellied piranha) – Amazon, Paraguay-Paraná-Uruguay, and Essequibo river basins, as well as various river in northeastern Brazil.
 * Pygocentrus palometa Valenciennes, 1850 – Orinoco river basin, possibly a nomen dubium.
 * Pygocentrus piraya (G. Cuvier, 1819) (San Francisco piranha) – São Francisco River

title: Pygocentrus


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User talk:DarthSexyous

THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK

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User:Ola Rinta-Koski

Biography
A stranger in a strange land

title: User:Ola Rinta-Koski


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Talk:De re coquinaria

Distributed Proofreaders has Vehling's Cookery and dining in imperial Rome proofing right now (in the first round). There's no stable link to it, but for now, until it's posted on Project Gutenberg, the page images are available. --Prosfilaes 06:18, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Merge?
Is there any reason this is a separate article from Apicius? As I read it, these are simply two different titles for the same book. - SimonP 01:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

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Nicholas Jones (actor)

Nicholas Jones (born 3 April 1946) is an English character actor who has appeared on stage, film and television.

Early life
Jones was born in London, the younger brother of actress Gemma Jones. They are the children of actor Griffith Jones (1909–2007) and Robin Isaac. He was educated at Westminster School.

Career
Jones has played leads on television, at The National Theatre, and on the West End Stage. He also appeared with the Royal Shakespeare Company (1999), and has starred at Shakespeare's Globe.

Film

 * The Corpse (1971) - Benjy Smith
 * Wolfshead: The Legend of Robin Hood (1973) - Squire
 * The Blockhouse (1973) - Kramer
 * Daisy Miller (1974) - Charles
 * When the Whales Came (1989) - Vicar
 * This Year's Love (1999) - James
 * On Wings of Fire (2001)
 * And Now... Ladies and Gentlemen (2002) - London Jeweller
 * Vanity Fair (2004) - Lord Darlington
 * Vera Drake (2004) - Defence Barrister
 * Copying Beethoven (2006) - Archduke Rudolph
 * Surveillance (2007) - Lord Raven (Jake's Father)
 * Flawless (2007) - Jameson
 * The Lady (2011) - Robert Gordon, UK Ambassador 1995-1999
 * The Iron Lady (2011) - Admiral Henry Leach
 * Philomena (2013) - Dr. Robert
 * Mr Turner (2014) - Sir John Soane
 * Effie Gray (2014) - Doctor Lee
 * In the Heart of the Sea (2015) - Pollard Senior
 * War Machine (2017) - Dick Waddle
 * Darkest Hour (2017) - Sir John Simon
 * The Children Act (2017) - Professor Rodney Carter

Television
Since 1969, Jones has acted in over 90 television films and series.

In the 1970s, he starred as Captain Triggers in the First World War series, Wings, alongside Tim Woodward and Michael Cochrane, perhaps his most iconic role. He also played Jeremy Aldermarten QC in all six series of the 1990s courtroom drama, Kavanagh QC. alongside John Thaw.

Jones' many appearances include the following:

 * Not a Penny More, Not a Penny Less (1990, TV Movie) - Dr. Robin Oakley
 * A Dangerous Man: Lawrence After Arabia (1992, TV Movie) - Lord Dyson
 * Unnatural Causes (1993, TV Movie) - Luker
 * Lipstick on Your Collar (1993) - Major Carter
 * Sharpe's Company (1994, TV Movie) - Col. Fletcher
 * Bramwell (1995) - Lord Edward Carstairs
 * A Touch of Frost (1996) - Major Harvey
 * The Beggar Bride (1997) - Sir Fabian Ormerod
 * A Dance to the Music of Time (1997) - Bob Duport
 * Hornblower: Mutiny (2002) - Lieutenant Buckland
 * Hornblower: Retribution (2002) - Lieutenant Buckland
 * The Alan Clark Diaries (2004) - Peter Morrison, MP
 * Sensitive Skin (2005)
 * Dunkirk (2005) – Major Angus McCorquodale
 * New Tricks (2005) - Michaela Pendle
 * Inspector George Gently (2006) - Henry Blythely
 * Silent Witness  (2006) - Dr Harvey Wilson
 * Eleventh Hour  (2006) - Dr Sidney Hayward
 * Spooks (2006) - Michael Collingwood
 * Rebus (2007, Series 4, Episode 3) - Commander Steelforth
 * Little Dorrit (2008) - The Scary Butler
 * Margaret (2009) - Tim Renton, MP
 * Midsomer Murders (2010–2014) - Ernest Bradley / Reverend Moreland
 * The Shadow Line  (2011) - Commander Penney
 * Waking the Dead (2011) - Leo Harding
 * Silk  (2012) - Judge Goodbrand
 * The Hollow Crown  (2012) - Archbishop of York
 * Holby City (2012) - Jeremy Hamilton
 * Henry IV, Part II (2012) - the Archbishop of York
 * Twenty Twelve (2012) - Tony Griffiths
 * The Best of Men (2012) - Major-General Harold Henry Blake
 * The Suspicions of Mr Whicher  (2014) - Sir Edwards Shore
 * Law & Order: UK (2014) - Edmund Rintoul
 * Father Brown (2014) - Colonel Cecil Gerard
 * Arthur & George (2015) - Judge Atkins
 * Lewis (2015) - Philip Hathaway
 * Mid Morning Matters with Alan Partridge (2016) - Cecil Croom-Phillips
 * The Crown (2016) - Charles Wilson
 * Count Arthur Strong (2017) - Judge
 * The Moorside (2017) - Judge
 * Absentia (2017) - Irving
 * Pennyworth (2019) - Sir Francis Tewkes
 * House of the Dragon (2022–2024) - Lord Bartimos Celtigar

title: Nicholas Jones (actor)


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Talk:Bob Jones University

Endowment
What is the university's endowment size? —Eustress talk 01:11, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
 * There is, for practical purposes, none.--John Foxe (talk) 19:17, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:RS? —Eustress talk 19:55, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Also none.--John Foxe (talk) 21:18, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

People section
This article has experienced significant vandalism problems in the past when "notable graduates" have been mentioned on the article page. The separate "list" has seen much less vandalism, probably >5% of what used to occur on the main page. The guidelines say that sections may be "customized...depending on need and type of institution." Here there is a need for abbreviation. While there are quite a few BJU alumni who have their own WP bios, few to none meet the qualifications given in the rubric: "alumni who have won major scholarships (Rhodes, Fulbright, etc.), major awards (Nobel, Oscar, Pulitzer, etc.), served as heads of government or other major political office, or otherwise held elite or notable distinctions (astronauts, professional athletes, CEOs, etc.)."--John Foxe (talk) 19:17, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've expanded the alumni section -- looks like plenty of notable people to me. Will get to faculty soon. You shouldn't prevent expansion out of concern for vandalism. This page has only been semi-protected once, and that was in 2010. —Eustress talk 19:54, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Since I have vivid memories of the vandalism, I disagree.--John Foxe (talk) 20:27, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

If Jamie Langston Turner is a notable person -- nice though she may be, she is not widely known outside of BJU circles -- than the Rector of one of the largest Episcopal Churches in the nation (David R. Anderson) and the CIO of a Fortune 1000 company are notable people. Moreover, if it is notable to mention an "update" to university facilities including "Papa John's, Chik fil A and Brody's Grill," then the mention of an incident that made national headlines in 1998 when Bob Jones University banned a prominent alumnus and retired pastor from campus (Dr. Wayne Mourtizen), threatened him with arrest, and then subsequently backtracked when the University's Museum & Gallery's tax exempt status became an issue -- especially since the ban letters subsequently received by all former students specifically mention the M&G being excluded from a campus ban -- is a notable piece of information for an encyclopedia entry. I have cited credible sources. Disappearing information that Bob Jones University administration feels uncomfortable about is not the purpose of Wikipedia editing. Brodacious (talk) 00:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC) Brodacious

Amero-centric
The article, especialyl its introduction, is written with the assumption that the reader is in the USA - "all fifty states" isn't qualified as referring to the US, the 'Department of Education' isn't qualified as being the US DoE, etc. Though it's not particularily difficult to unearth the location of these places, isn't it standard policy to remove regional bias? I forget them name of it. I know spelling differences are left in the style of whoever first wrote the article, and that there's going to be a natural bias towards writing articles for the Young White American, but the article still seems very Amero-centric (if that's the word), and besides being simply off-putting makes it that much harder to read. --Dd 8630 (talk) 17:14, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Fundamental vs. Fundamentalist
There's been some recent reverting back and forth over this. I'm not aware of the exact distinctions between the two terms, but in my limited experience "fundamentalist" is the more common term. Either way, it should probably be discussed here before making the change again. (As a side note, I can't think of a Wikipedia policy saying that we need to stay as closely as possible to the original language when paraphrasing, or that we can't use synonyms to keep the language more in line with the rest of the article.) ~Adjwilley (talk) 16:51, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi. I did revert it once, basically for the reason you stated: I'm simply unfamiliar with "fundamental" as opposed to "fundamentalist". I'm StillStanding (24/7) (talk) 16:53, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

 * Eating fiber is fundamental for a good diet. Believing God's word literally, for example, and building a church and a school on that basis is fundamentalist. You had it right in your revert: they are very different words and "fundamentalist" is the proper term. There are no "fundamental churches". (Look it up in the dictionary.) Drmies (talk) 16:54, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Until 1996, there was a denomination called Independent Fundamental Churches of America (now IFCA International), and many fundamentalist Baptists (and their bitter opponents) often call their churches "Independent Fundamental Baptist" (IFB).--John Foxe (talk) 19:40, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you.
 * A church can call itself what it wants to, but that has nothing to do with whether it should be called fundamentalist or not. Drmies (talk) 00:42, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The issue is not for us to try to explain the difference between a "fundamentalist church" or a "fundamental church." There may or may not be a difference or a nuance, but the issue is that there is indeed a Wikipedia policy about quotation (please see QUOTE) and Wikipedia does view paraphrasing like a quote when it is sourced inline. The specific guideline is, "If not used verbatim, any alterations must be clearly marked." Additionally, "fundamental Baptist church" receives 388,000 results on Google (a majority of BJU constituents appear to be Baptist or Baptistic), whereas "fundamentalist Baptist church" gets only 14,500 results. Obviously there is a difference out there, so that would be reason enough. But again, the issue is not a Google search but that Wikipedia editors must abide by the objective guideline, not one's stylistic opinion. If you don't like the grammar of it then put the two instances in quotation marks to avoid criticism of seemingly bad grammar. But please revert. If someone insists on misquoting the source, at least he would need to use brackets in both instances of the quote (i.e., "[fundamentalist]" instead of "fundamentalist") to "clearly mark" the alteration. But that would be unnecessarily awkward.--Llama36 (talk) 21:25, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * If editors can't tell the difference between one and the other, then someone should explain it. If it concerns a quote, then obviously the source should be followed, but it should also be clear that it's a source that's being quoted or paraphrased. Honestly, I'm baffled at this entire conversation. Fundamentalist means something very specifically and it's not a term to be thrown around lightly, but it has little to do with the word fundamental. Drmies (talk) 00:42, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I can fix that simply.--John Foxe (talk) 21:34, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Excellent solution that also cuts down on redundancy. Thanks.--Llama36 (talk) 21:41, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Curiously, the reference to church planting in Turner's book uses the term "Fundamentalist churches."--John Foxe (talk) 21:45, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I regret to have missed that and to have referred to "two instances" of misquote. Therefore the second quote could be reverted but not the first. I still think it is improved as is now, but to be fair I have removed the "solved" bar. --Llama36 (talk) 22:26, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. I think it reads better now too.--John Foxe (talk) 23:11, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

What Wikipedia Is Not ... Any Input Here?
Looking over this article, I wonder whether or not it meets the criteria of WP:What_Wikipedia_is_not. For example, "When you wonder what should or should not be in an article, ask yourself what a reader would expect to find under the same heading in an encyclopedia." For example, some of the controversies and rules of conduct seem strange for an encyclopedia. Many other schools have guidelines and rules and controversies. Some of them might be necessary, but to me much of the stuff in here doesn't seem consistent with notability; Why would an editor choose some rules to highlight and not others? Who decides what is notable? Why are those specific ones chosen? Anyone have any thoughts on this?--Llama36 (talk) 17:28, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Frankly, most people only know of Bob Jones University because of its former policies on interracial dating. Before I read this article the three things I knew about BJU is: 1. it didn't allow interracial dating until very recently, 2. it was unaccredited (apparently a choice of the three Bob Joneses that Stephen Jones has reversed) and 3. it promotes creationism (of course most evangelical colleges have a very strong anti-science bent, but Liberty and BJU are the only ones I remember hearing named specifically). Reading this article I had the opposite reaction (see the section below), in that it came across as apologizing for the unaccredited policy with wording that I suspect of giving undue weight to claims in one book that the policy was irrelevant. —Quintucket (talk) 04:02, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Criticism needs to be more prominent
Some of the criticism (or a summary of it) should be included in the opening paragraphs. It's important and what best describes this institution. Seeing how much of the criticism has now been corrected this would mean that the opening paragraph would remain neutral (i.e. They didn't permit interracial dating until recently)--ЗAНИA talk talk] 12:24, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Good observation. Care to take a stab at it? —Eustress talk 02:43, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I also agree that the criticism is unduly downplayed. The college is pretty much solely known for its fringe policies and long history of non-accreditation, however the article as written downplays the former and makes excuses for the latter. However I'm worried that as a staunch secularist, I couldn't edit the article fairly, and would be inclined to go too far in the other direction.

 * If I have time this January I might like to see if I can't get the book that's cited in claims that the non-accreditation didn't matter for most of its history, and if as I suspect it's either a misrepresentation of the source or the source is one long apologia for BJU, remove those sentences. However the rest of the criticism seems like something I'd have a hard time editing fairly, because it would require adding information that's been lacking, not merely removing one-sided information from a fringe source or odd interpretation of a source. —Quintucket (talk) 04:15, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

For profit status
The citation that BJU is a for-profit school is based on the organization of the entity as one without tax exempt status, which is what people judge colleges' status by on some level, but it is inaccurate. I am almost certain they are organized as a non-profit corporation and just don't have tax exempt status, but there is ambiguity among reliable sources about that, so I think that the article shouldn't claim the university to be for-profit or not, and should clarify this in the text. BranSul (talk) 19:06, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I concur that a plethora of websites out there claim BJU is one way or another without any real grounding. However, the NCES would seem authoritative on the matter. Plus, the article itself also explains that, "Although BJU never reapplied for federal tax-exempt status [after it was revoked via decision of Bob Jones University v. United States (1983)] and continues to pay federal taxes, a number of its ancillaries, including Bob Jones Academy and the BJU Museum & Gallery, are tax-exempt entities." —Eustress talk 02:31, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I just checked the SC Secretary of State for certainty. At http://www.sos.sc.gov/index.asp?n=18&p=4&s=18&corporateid=19735 you can see that BJU is in fact organized as a non-profit.  Its tax exempt status is a separate matter. BranSul (talk) 03:23, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you're right. The SOS website also properly categorizes other private non-profits (e.g., Wofford) and for-profits (e.g., Forrest College). Cheers. —Eustress talk 00:23, 4 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I sort of think the NCES does that to be a bit slick with making it clear that tax exempt status isn't there? Or they don't see it as a different matter. But I think it's common knowledge among legal that some non-profits are not tax exempt. From the perspective of every state's law (which is the law which forms corps) nonprofit means nobody is getting any dividends. BJU probably doesn't pay state income taxes. BranSul (talk) 06:41, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Since it hasn't been mentioned and I think it should be included in the article is Bob Jones University v. United States which covers the controversy and legal actions for BJU's Non-Profit status. YborCityJohn (talk) 20:17, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * BJU v. US is summarized and linked under the section about race. John Foxe (talk) 13:45, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Handling of sexual assault cases
Apparently, the administration of Bob Jones University referred to victims of sexual assault as "liars" and "sinners", and coerced them not to report the assaults because doing so would "damage Jesus Christ". The university hired a fundamentalist Christian consulting firm to audit its practices regarding sexual assault, but then fired the consulting firm without explanation just before its report was due to be completed. (New York Times, Washington Post. Is this notable? Should it be mentioned in the article? MastCell Talk 06:10, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

It's very notable and should be worked into the controversies section. 98.117.83.122 (talk) 23:50, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Consensus
As can be seen all over this talk page, the consensus is that the article whitewashes the schools long history of straight up racist policies. There is no doubt that pushing the information into a "controversies" section is an attempt to cover up this racism. Further attempts to use WP:Wikilawyering in an attempt to make this school look better on Wikipedia will be seen as exactly that. Abductive (reasoning) 19:22, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I disagree. There's been no attempt to cover up anything. The section on racial policies is c. 5000 words, while the description of the campus, plus discussion of academics (and accreditation) is only c. 8,600. Additional discussion of BJU and race is UNDUE.--John Foxe (talk) 22:26, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * See Neutral point of view. Anyway, you are outnumbered on this talk page. Abductive  (reasoning) 01:47, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It's been suggested in the past that the article structure be more chronological; but as I said then, and repeat now, the problems of doing that, in my opinion, outweigh the benefits. Most folks come to this page with something in mind, and I think a section of "controversies" fits the bill for most. Certainly, it's impossible simply to drop in a single non-contextualized sentence saying, in effect, "These guys are racist jerks" and expect that to be accepted by the community as NPOV.--John Foxe (talk) 16:25, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * They were racists and didn't allow interracial dating until . Abductive  (reasoning) 21:06, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * All the details are right there in the article. Take a look.--John Foxe (talk) 01:09, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

History and criticism
On Wikipedia we are encouraged to "avoid having a separate section in an article devoted to criticism" (see WP:CRIT), and this article got to the imbalanced point where the Criticism section had 18k characters compared to only 1k in the History section. The criticism is a part of the university's history and should be presented in an NPOV light. Likewise, some of the detail is best presented in a dedicated History (see WP:SS). I've made an attempt at addressing these issues by creating History of Bob Jones University, which preserves a lot of the outstanding research that's been done previously while trying to restore balance to this article. —Eustress 20:00, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
 * My argument has always been "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." What I find most annoying about the rewrite is that unrelated things are thrown together because they happened at about the same time. Some "paragraphs" are composed of completely unrelated ideas.--John Foxe (talk) 23:13, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
 * A "B" on the quality scale typically (depends on each WikiProject) means there are still issues of content and style to be addressed. The chronological order of the History helps preserve NPOV and is consistent with the WP:UNI exemplars, or FAs. —Eustress 00:30, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know how you can reconcile emphasis on chronology in this article with creating a whole new article called History of Bob Jones University that ignores chronology.
 * Let's take some time and point up chronological change where it's applicable. Otherwise it will appear that we are trying to shunt off important material that folks will be looking for here.--John Foxe (talk) 15:45, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the material has now been organized with a considered balance between chronology and topicality. Emphasis on straight chronology can astray in a dozen ways, not even counting making readability more difficult.--John Foxe (talk) 19:11, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * The precedent established by WP:UNI favors chronological ordering and spinning off details into a dedicated history article, and the consensus here supports this viewpoint:
 * User:Abductive called for chronological order (see diff)
 * User:Llama36 and User:Quintucket called to restore balance to the article per WP:UNDUE (see diff)
 * You're failing to get the point and I'm worried that you're exhibiting ownership tendencies again. —Eustress 20:34, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I support User:Eustress. User:John Foxe should be concerned, lest it appears that he is attempting to "bury the lead" on the embarrassing racism exhibited by the institution. Abductive  (reasoning) 20:46, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that User:Eustress has eliminated a number of improvements to the article out-of-hand. I'm willing to go with his basic outline, but in his haste he has reintroduced errors of fact.--John Foxe (talk) 21:03, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I've now tweaked the section and eliminated the errors.--John Foxe (talk) 22:46, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * You are acting against consensus. Abductive  (reasoning) 23:43, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I was invited to restore balance to this discussion (see above). While I think this new entry is valuable, well cited and well written by User:Eustress (kudos!), I think that the title of the article is erroneous and must be changed. This article deals with issues and controversies, not history in the plain Wikipedia sense of the term. Of course I recognize that the issues are historical, as is anything in the past, but standard Wikipedia users seeing this title would not be looking predominantly for Religious Issues, Race Relations, and Political Involvement (the only three sections currently). This is not my subjective opinion. I just search within Wikipedia for "History University" and many articles appear on the History of many academic institutions and just the first 5 I searched all had a chronological history (things like Beginnings, foundations, formal establishment, further growth, the 19th century, establishment of new colleges and schools, succession of presidents and deans, etc.). Therefore I believe this page must be retitled to something like "History of Bob Jones University Controversies". Alternatively, and perhaps better, you could add standard BJU history to this article based on precedents I just mentioned, but even then, to make sense the new material should be equal or greater in content than the current material on controversies, and place the current material as subpoints under a section called "History of Controversies". In general, the history of controversy, even when well documented, is fraught with problems of subjectivity and debate and viewpoints. But the year of founding, registration, student enrollment, addition of majors and schools, names of presidents and deans, etc., is more encyclopedic, and of course that is what Wikipedia is designed for. Bob Jones University is at the center of much controversy, but this article title is not the appropriate place in my opinion.--Llama36 (talk) 09:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I suggest moving (or duplicating) these remarks at History of Bob Jones University, which at this moment lacks a talk page as well as a chronology.--John Foxe (talk) 23:43, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Done.--Llama36 (talk) 21:16, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

COI investigation
FYI, there is a COI investigation pertaining to this article at Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard. —Eustress 23:03, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

 * As an update, an ANI inquiry has been launched subsequent to the COI investigation. —Eustress 21:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Lead text
A few editors including myself have sought to remove the following text from the lead on grounds of POV/boosterism.

Based on the sources recently provided, I don't think they substantiate any claim about the uni's religion/culture/politics resulting in unduly great influence. I think all we're safe to say is something like "The university is known for its conservative religious, cultural, and political stances." —Eustress 23:18, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Fine. I've made that change.--John Foxe (talk) 23:40, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

GRACE report response
The quotations cited are under "Response to Victims" and in the Q&A under "The report recommended removal/discontinued use of sermons or materials that may contain information abuse/assault victims find insensitive. What is the status?" I'll be happy to add those sub-citation to the note.--John Foxe (talk) 13:42, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The content you added was:

In a March 2015 response, University president Steve Pettit said that a former prosecutor with the U.S. Attorney's office had uncovered no "instances where the University failed to comply with its reporting obligations" and that although it would review all sermons and materials cited in the G.R.A.C.E. report, the University endorsed the writings of Jim Berg as "faithful to Scripture" and would continue to use them in BJU courses and distribute them through BJU Press.

 * The content you added was not accurate in that the president did not say that that a former prosecutor with the U.S. Attorney's office had uncovered no "instances where the University failed to comply with its reporting obligations". The web page says that, not the president.  I am not sure I am confortable with the bits you chose to introduce out of the president's remarks and the school's webpage - they acknowledged doing some wrong and your selections make them seem entirely in denial and defensive.  I don't  have time to think about this more right now but will come back to it later. Jytdog (talk) 14:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The president put his authority behind the whole response, information also provided in the Q&A: "Through prayerful consideration along with advice and counsel of the advisory group and significant input from the University’s leadership team, the president ultimately is responsible for the final decisions." But if you'd like to say "the university said" rather than the university president said, that's fine too.--John Foxe (talk) 17:03, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * it was sloppy scholarship; please don't defend it - everybody makes mistakes. still thinking about the bits you chose to highlight. Jytdog (talk) 22:23, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Watching students get a handle on a subject is part of what makes education exciting. E. H. Carr wrote that every historian worth his salt begins with a bee in his bonnet, an invigorating impulse to prove or disprove something. But students who reach scholarly maturity often come out a different door than they went in.--John Foxe (talk) 01:03, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
 * yep, and everybody is human :) more to come on the substance, they said a lot and i have read a few times and am letting it sink in. Jytdog (talk) 01:27, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm all for it. Just sorry I can't give you a quiz.--John Foxe (talk) 01:32, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You've literally made several hundred edits elsewhere in the last few days. The ball's now in your court here.--John Foxe (talk) 20:19, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * you went and added it back. you chose the most defensive and stupid parts of the announcement.  the key thing is that they acknowledged hurting people and apologized for it.  do you really want to show BJU as being legalistic, unrepentant assholes hiding behind lawyers?  do you have no pastoral bone in your body? completely tone-deaf. Jytdog (talk) 20:26, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Ironic that you want to hide information that in your eyes makes BJU look worse. At Wikipedia we don't hide "defensive and stupid parts" of things.--John Foxe (talk) 22:54, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

I am not hiding anything. I am giving the most important part of the information - what the president himself said. Why you think covering BJU's ass on a legal basis is important, is beyond me. Please explain. Jytdog (talk) 23:33, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You're clearly foggy about the matter in dispute, which provides a good illustration of why many Wikipedia articles are improved by having a tutelary genius with a putative COI. The paragraph at issue begins with a discussion of Jim Berg and nouthetic counseling, the core of the disagreement.  So the University replies, "We're deeply sorry.  But nothing we did was illegal, and we continue to endorse the biblical counseling philosophy you hate."  I think if I had edited the article the way you did, I would have been jumped on—probably even by you.--John Foxe (talk) 19:40, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * let's stop talking about each other shall we? Jytdog (talk) 19:48, 22 March 2015 (UTC) (add missing word Jytdog (talk) 20:28, 22 March 2015 (UTC))
 * Other what? Ah, stuff like "sloppy scholarship," "no pastoral bone in your body? completely tone-deaf." Not to worry; I'm pretty even-keeled.John Foxe (talk) 16:23, 23 March 2015 (UTC)John Foxe (talk) 20:18, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * yes, and like "You're clearly foggy about the matter in dispute" and your insulting offer to give me a quiz, etc etc - all the personalization. do you want to stop talking about each other, or not? It would be more productive if we focused on content, per TPG. Jytdog (talk) 16:49, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Fine. I'd be happy to have your response to the following: The paragraph at issue begins with a discussion of Jim Berg and nouthetic counseling, the core of the disagreement. So the University replies, "We're deeply sorry.  But nothing we did was illegal, and we continue to endorse Jim Berg's biblical counseling philosophy."--John Foxe (talk) 20:15, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Comment Regarding edits like this, it feels a lot like WP:Recentism. I'm not trying to minimize the importance, but in the long term I don't see it as big enough to merit multiple paragraphs in the History section. ~Adjwilley (talk) 05:23, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm fine seeing what I just wrote condensed. I just wanted to focus the content on the self-identified heart of the matter... per the discussion above. That said, religion and sexual abuse has been a big deal for a decade or two.  Hardly recentism in that regard.  Jytdog (talk) 05:29, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with Adjwilley (talk) that two paragraphs seems excessive, and I still believe Jytdog misunderstands the issue. But as he said above, his version makes BJU look better. I am content to let it stand. I have tried to reduce some of the wordiness though.--John Foxe (talk) 13:21, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * There's at least a bit more to this story to come. The Greenville solicitor's office has been investigating whether any South Carolina laws were broken.  If the solicitor brings charges, or if he decides there is insufficient evidence to bring charges, that information should be included as well.--John Foxe (talk) 19:15, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * if charges are brought, sure. if not, i would say not noteworthy enough to include.Jytdog (talk) 19:20, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
 * We don't have to worry about it just yet, but in its response, the University said its counselors broke no laws. If the solicitor's actively looking and can't find anything that's certainly more important than other information provided in that history section, like changing logos. For sure such information should at least go in a footnote.--John Foxe (talk) 21:04, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

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BIG ERRORS in Accreditation section
some southern accreditation group is cited as 2017 but the linked citation claims 2011. but both are superseded by the Wiki page of the so-called accreditation group. "Established 1895, Dissolved 2006 i don't care if 2011 or 2017 the organization still didn't exist. --Qazwiz (talk) 00:17, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what organization dissolved in 2006, but it wasn't the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, http://www.sacscoc.org/, which is one of the six regional accrediting associations in the United States and is very much alive. The article correctly says, "In December 2011, BJU announced its intention to apply for regional accreditation with the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACSCOC), and it received that accreditation in 2017." I've added a 2017 citation to that sentence, though a citation for the information is given earlier in the article.--John Foxe (talk) 14:53, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Steve Taylor "We Don't Need No Color Code"
Would it be appropriate to include Steve Taylor track "We Don't Need No Color Code" from Meltdown (Steve Taylor album), as an example of protests against their Inter-racial dating ban?

He's discussed it in various places - see here for examples.
 * It was certainly important for Taylor but, to my knowledge, had no discernible effect on the racial policies of BJU. John Foxe (talk) 13:46, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:22, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Bob Jones University Bruin Mascot.jpg

title: Talk:Bob Jones University


text:
National Association of the Deaf

National Association of the Deaf may refer to:

 * National Association of the Deaf (Italy)
 * National Association of the Deaf (India)
 * National Association of the Deaf (United States)
 * National Deaf Federation Nepal

title: National Association of the Deaf


text:
Toyotarō Yūki

Toyotarō Yūki (結城 豊太郎), was a central banker in the Empire of Japan, serving as the 15th Governor of the Bank of Japan and twice as a cabinet minister.

Biography
Yūki was born in the onsen resort of Akayu in what is now part of Nan'yō, Yamagata Prefecture, where his father was a sake brewer. After graduating from Tokyo Imperial University with a degree in political science, he obtained a position at the Bank of Japan from January 1904. Yūki was promoted rapidly, serving as auditor in the bank's New York City branch, branch manager in Kyoto, Corporate Secretary, and branch manager in Osaka. In 1918, at the recommendation of Junnosuke Inoue, Yūki was appointed to the Board of Directors, while still maintaining his post as Osaka branch manager. However, following the assassination of Yasuda Zenjirō, Yūki left the Bank of Japan to join the Board of Directors for the Yasuda zaibatsu in November 1921, and was appointed Managing Director of Yasuda Bank the same year.

As head of Yasuda Bank, Yūki was a member of a committee which drafted "Definite Policies for the Improvement of the Ordinary Banking System in Our Country'' in 1926. The report identified a range of significant issues:
 * Ordinary banks in our country have frequently conducted their business badly. There has been excessive competition among too many small banks with slender means; bankers have been ignorant of the need for reserves to back deposit withdrawals and generally ill-informed about the working of deposit banking; there has been over enthusiastic lending of bank resources in either particular or long-term outlets against securities of real estates in favour of related businesses; there has been serious negligence in establishing a thorough audit system both inside and outside the banks.

The need to address the problems identified in this proposal generally acknowledged. The report was the genesis of a process which led to the Bank Act of 1927.

In March 1929, Yūki left for a tour of Europe. On his return, he established a committee to find was for the Yasuda zaibatsu to weather the Great Depression. From September 1930, Yūki was head of the Industrial Bank of Japan. Yūki was subsequently elected head of the Japan Chamber of Commerce and Industry in January 1937. In February 1937, he was appointed Minister of Finance in the Hayashi administration, serving to June 1937. The concurrently also held the portfolio of Minister of Colonial Affairs for the same period. From May 1937, Yūki was also appointed to a seat in the Upper House of the Diet of Japan.

During the 1st Konoe administration, July 27, 1937 on Yūki returned to the Bank of Japan as governor, replacing Shigeaki Ikeda. He held the post until March 18, 1944. During Yūki's tenure, the bank was reorganized in 1942. However, Yūki was removed from his office by the Finance Minister with the support of the Tōjō cabinet in 1944. Yuki had opposed giving the Munitions Minister the authority to approve loans to munitions companies without consultation with the bank, and Tōjō was both Prime Minister and Munitions Minister at the time Following World War II, Yūki retired from public life, and moved to Mie Prefecture, where he became the chief kannushi of the Yuki Jinja Shinto shrine. He died in 1951, and his grave is at the Aoyama Cemetery in Tokyo.

In 1995, the town of Akayu opened a memorial museum in his honor.

title: Toyotarō Yūki


text:
User talk:Arsebiscuits121

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, you can post to the help desk or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! pamri 06:22, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
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Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:24, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Too late - I see you had already been blocked by User:Bishonen. -- ALoan (Talk) 22:16, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Arsebiscuits121


text:
Sowers, Texas

Sowers is a ghost town located approximately 11 miles northwest of Dallas, Texas in Dallas County. Today, the once rural community is located entirely within the boundaries of Irving, Texas. Of the original townsite, only the cemetery remains.

History
Sowers was settled in the late 1840s and by 1884 had a population of seventy-five and possessed several businesses including a blacksmith, a church, a doctor, a druggist, a school, and two steam gristmill-cotton gins. A post office was established in 1881, it and the town were named after early pioneer E. D. Sowers. The population was listed at 121 residents in 1905 and remained at or near that figure until the 1950s, when the community's last reported population was a mere thirty residents in 1956. Sowers was annexed by Irving soon thereafter.

Attempted Capture of Bonnie and Clyde
Sowers gained notoriety on November 21, 1933, when renowned criminals Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow met family members at dusk near what is now Texas Highway 183 approximately one and a quarter miles northwest of the community, where Barrow had arranged a clandestine picnic to celebrate his mother's fifty-ninth birthday. Since Barrow had not had a gift to present his mother, the pair planned to return the following evening for an extended visit at which time he planned to give her a gift. On November 22, 1933, as Parker and Barrow approached the previous evening's family meeting spot, law enforcement officers Smoot Schmidt, Ted Hinton, Ed Caster, and Bob Alcorn; armed with Thompson submachine guns, .351 "Bullhead" repeating rifle, and BAR (Browning Automatic Rifles) opened a fusillade of gunfire from a ditch about seventy-five feet away. Upon their accelerated escape, several .30 caliber rounds from Bob Alcorn's BAR pierced the driver side door of Clyde's stolen 1933 Ford V-8 five-window coupe wounding both Parker and Barrow with shots to the knees. The pair subsequently abandoned the car and fled. Hinton and Alcorn later participated in the fatal ambush that halted Barrow and Parker's spree on May 23, 1934, near Gibsland, Louisiana.

title: Sowers, Texas


text:
Category:Apple II software

Software for Apple II computers including the Apple IIGS.

title: Category:Apple II software


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sinorice Moss

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Merge to Santana Moss. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 23:55, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Sinorice Moss
''No Consensus. I am relisting. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 00:32, 30 August 2005 (UTC)''

Non-notable college football player. Being related to a pro player does not make him notable. Zoe 06:24, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per moninator. --GraemeL (talk) 12:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to Santana Moss, his notible brother Roodog2k 18:32, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete or Merge as noted above. --Quasipalm 01:23, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak Delete only 4 starts, no records. Johntex 01:40, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge. D. G. 03:30, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * A merge and redirect to Santana Moss wouldn't hurt. - Mgm|(talk) 09:02, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect as there is so little in the article. Alf 09:32, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nominator. --Lomedae 10:46, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to his brother. Until he becomes more notable himself. --  Etacar11   01:32, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.