text:
Talk:Four Brothers (film)

Definite Parallel
I agree, there is a complete parallel between the plotline of this film and GTA San Andreas. There is a genuine value in clarifying this parallel in the article. ---Backbeatlistener

Average Grosser?
What's that suppose to mean? Is this some kind of a joke or this is a quote from review or something?

Yeah, I'm confused by this as well... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.115.17.228 (talk) 00:07, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

GTA San Andreas Reference?
Does anyone else see a parallel with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas? Think about it. San Andreas involves a guy (CJ), his sister (Kendl), and his brother (Sweet) taking down a gang that killed their mother. They also have a late brother. Four siblings. Dead mother. Vengence. I would personally classify the movie as "ripoff", but that's just me. --Zeromaru 00:49, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

This is a REMAKE of a movie released long before GTA. Get your facts straight.

Umm and also the Four Brothers in this movie didn't have a sister, unless you count the mexican fucking that black guy thier sister. And plus GTA:SA is only about CJ taking revenge on his mom for like the first 3 missions.

Dude, the first three missions? Everything in the [story] is an attempt to find out who killed his mother. And at the end, you kill the three people responsible for it. Duh. And also, I read about the movie that Four Brothers is "based" on ... They sound very little alike, in that 1. no father is ever mentioned, 2. it's in the wild west, and 3. there is no ranch. Completely different movies, and all ... But whatever. My opinion ...

And your opinion means absolutely nothing. Let's keep the talk page clean of any other off topic material. If you want to talk about GTA, go find a forum or something. Xacidx 21:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

um, just like to point out that there are other parallels with GTA. One of the brothers has a relationship with a latino woman, whos brother dislikes him. Similarities anyone? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.200.191 (talk) 12:32, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Synopsis
Why is there a body count when we actually need a synopsis? Is there even a need for a body count? --Steven 02:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The Sons of Katie Elder
I've noticed the close similarities between this, and an old John Wayne film, The Sons of Katie Elder. Many of the plot twists and characters seem very similar. Can anyone verify this? Can it be sourced?--Patrick Ѻ 11:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I was surprised when I read the plot summary of Katie. This has some similarities, but it doesn't seem to qualify for "remake." Is there a source for that statement? Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:47, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

If there is no confirmed source that this movie is a remake of Katie, then why is it stated here still? Shouldn't information on wikipedia be first verified, then posted, instead of being posted until proven false? If there is no source then I will go ahead and delete it, until that person who said it was a remake shows some facts. 75.18.171.166 (talk) 05:38, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

In the director's commentary on the DVD, Singleton explicitly says he did NOT watch The Sons of Katie Elder, though the film was influenced by other westerns of the '60s and '70s. Tea&magpies (talk) 16:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Remake
I dont think Big B is a remake of this.--Abhishek Jacob (talk) 11:46, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Four Brothers (film)


text: User:Huchi

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Huchi


text:
Dean Kiely

Dean Laurence Kiely (born 10 October 1970) is a former professional footballer who played as a goalkeeper. He is the goalkeeping coach at Premier League club Crystal Palace and the Republic of Ireland national team. Born in England, he won eleven caps for the Republic of Ireland as a player. Kiely has previously worked as the goalkeeping coach at West Bromwich Albion and Norwich City.

Club career
Born in Salford, Lancashire, Kiely trained with the West Bromwich Albion youth system as a schoolboy before being accepted into the FA School of Excellence at Lilleshall. After Albion he progressed through the Coventry City youth system as a trainee before signing a professional contract on 30 October 1987. He went to Ipswich Town on loan in November 1989 but failed to make any league appearances. Kiely joined York City on loan on 9 March 1990 before joining permanently in May, when he was given his first chance at regular first-team football. He made 210 league appearances for them between 1990 and 1996, and played in their 3–0 win over Manchester United at Old Trafford in the League Cup.

Following a trial with Plymouth Argyle, Kiely signed for Bury on 15 August 1996 for a tribunal-decided fee of £125,000. He spent three seasons at Bury, making 137 league appearances in the process. He was instrumental in Bury winning the Second Division title in the 1996–97 season, most notably with an 88th-minute penalty save in the penultimate game of the season from Watford's Tommy Mooney. Bury requiring a point to guarantee a second automatic promotion in as many seasons had Kiely to thank after he kept the scoreline at 0–0 in a memorable day at Vicarage Road.

Kiely moved to Charlton Athletic for a fee of £1 million on 26 May 1999 and made his debut on 7 August against Barnsley. He was Charlton's regular keeper from 1999 to 2005, and was popular with the club's fans as well as having a majestic "shut out" rate. Having been signed from a lower-division club he was seen as an example of Alan Curbishley's ability to spot talent in unheralded players. Kiely made a point-blank save from Birmingham City player Christophe Dugarry in a game at St Andrew's on 3 November 2003; Charlton went on to win the game 2–1 and Kiely later named the save as the favourite one of his career. He also saved a penalty from Crystal Palace's Andy Johnson to help secure a 1–0 win in December 2004.

He signed for Portsmouth for an undisclosed fee on 25 January 2006, and played a large part in their escape from relegation that same season. His Pompey debut was in the FA Cup against Liverpool at Fratton Park in a 2–1 defeat. After David James signed for Portsmouth on 11 August, he voiced his frustration at having to compete with a top goalkeeper for the No. 1 spot, and with Jamie Ashdown also on their books, he opted to leave Portsmouth in the autumn.

He signed for Championship club Luton Town on a one-month loan on 23 November 2006, making his debut in the 2–1 away defeat at Southampton on 25 November. He then joined Championship side West Bromwich Albion on 30 January 2007, signing a one-and-a-half-year contract, as a replacement for Russell Hoult. Kiely made his Albion debut in a 2–1 win over Plymouth Argyle the following day.

Kiely reached the milestone of 700 senior career appearances on 1 September 2007, and recorded a clean sheet as Albion beat Barnsley 2–0. He signed a new deal with West Brom in January 2008, which would expire in June 2009. Kiely's clean sheet in the 3–0 home win against Plymouth Argyle on 1 March 2008 saw him named in the Championship Team of the Week. Later that month however, he was the subject of criticism and booing from his team's own fans during Albion's 4–3 victory over Colchester United, but retained his starting place. He nonetheless kept 18 clean sheets in all competitions to win the Championship Golden Glove award, while Albion won promotion to the Premier League as champions and reached the FA Cup semi-final. Since then, Kiely had to play second fiddle to England international Scott Carson. In spite of that, he was awarded a one-year extension at the club as a 'reward' from boss Tony Mowbray for his professionalism. And following an injury to Carson in training, Kiely was handed his first Premier League start against Wigan Athletic on 9 May 2009, producing some fine saves as the Baggies won 3–1 to keep their survival hopes alive, earning praise from Mowbray in the process. Mowbray was also quick to hail Kiely's professionalism throughout the season in handling his situation with dignity. That performance ensured that he kept his place for the club's final two games of the season, although he was unable to prevent relegation following a 2–0 defeat at the hands of Liverpool. On 24 May 2009 he kept a clean sheet in the club's final game against Blackburn Rovers as the match finished in a 0–0 stalemate. Since relegation to the Championship Kiely has once again had to be content playing second fiddle to Carson, who was named the new club captain by new manager Roberto Di Matteo, but on 8 December 2009 he made his first Championship appearance of the season as a replacement, coming on for the sent-off Carson and saving a penalty (though Peter Whittingham scored from the rebound) in a 2–0 home defeat to Cardiff City. He went on to play a run of three games while Carson sat through a suspension following his headbutting of Cardiff striker Michael Chopra, against QPR (2–2), Peterborough United (2–0), and Scunthorpe United (3–1). Kiely had also been performing the duties of goalkeeping coach following the retirement of former trainer Joe Corrigan, and in April 2010 was officially named goalkeeping coach of the club. On 18 April 2010, Kiely made his fifth appearance of the season as a half-time substitute for the injured Carson in a 2–0 home win over Middlesbrough. He retired as a player at the end of the 2010–11 season after West Brom opted against extending his contract, however he remained at the club as a coach. In January 2015, upon the appointment of new West Bromwich Albion manager, Tony Pulis, Kiely was released by the club. In March 2015, he was appointed Norwich City's goalkeeping coach.

In September 2017, Kiely was appointed the goalkeeping coach at Championship club Preston North End.

In January 2018, Kiely joined Premier League club Crystal Palace as goalkeeping coach.

International career

Kiely played for England at under-15 (13 caps), under-16 (13 caps) and under-18 (four caps in 1988) levels. He made one appearance for Republic of Ireland B, starting in a 4–3 win over League of Ireland XI on 9 February 1999, in which he was substituted for Nick Colgan. He went on to represent the Republic of Ireland at full international level, earning his first cap as a substitute in a UEFA Euro 2000 qualifying play-off against Turkey in November 1999. He retired from international football in February 2003, but in April 2008 Ireland's assistant manager Liam Brady suggested that Kiely could make a return to the squad. The rumours were then confirmed when he returned to the Ireland squad in Giovanni Trapattoni's first squad as manager in May 2008. He won his first cap in five years when he appeared in the Republic's 1–1 draw with Serbia that month, playing the full 90 minutes. On 28 May 2009, he walked out of the Ireland squad after Trapattoni informed him that he would be replacing Shay Given with Keiren Westwood for the second half of the friendly International against Nigeria at Craven Cottage on 29 May. He was capped 11 times by the Republic of Ireland, last appearing in 2008.

Personal life
Away from football, Kiely made a guest appearance on Bravo's Saved by the Ball lifestyle makeover programme in 2006, and has also worked as a match summariser for BBC Radio 5 Live. He plays golf and is interested in horse racing, and is friends with WBA fan & ITV presenter Adrian Chiles. Kiely married Tracey in Las Vegas in May 1999. The couple have three children; Millie, Chris and Mason. Chris is a former professional goalkeeper.

Honours
York City
 * Football League Third Division play-offs: 1992–93

Bury
 * Football League Second Division: 1996–97

Charlton Athletic
 * Football League First Division: 1999–2000

West Bromwich Albion
 * Football League Championship: 2007–08

Individual
 * Charlton Athletic Player of the Year: 2001–02, 2003–04
 * Football League Championship Golden Glove: 2007–08

title: Dean Kiely


text: File:Squeeze no place like home cover.jpg


text:
Category talk:Frasier characters

Untitled
Where's the entry for Bebe Glazer, Frasier's unscrupulous agent? She was by far the most entertaining guest star on the series and deserves an entry.

title: Category talk:Frasier characters


text:
British Tabulating Machine Company

The British Tabulating Machine Company (BTM) was a firm which manufactured and sold Hollerith unit record equipment and other data-processing equipment. During World War II, BTM constructed some 200 "bombes", machines used at Bletchley Park to break the German Enigma machine ciphers.

History
The company was formed in 1902 as The Tabulator Limited, after Robert Porter obtained the rights to sell Herman Hollerith's patented machines from the US Tabulating Machine Company (later to become IBM). By 1909, the company had been renamed the "British Tabulating Machine Company Limited". In 1920, the company moved from London to Letchworth, Hertfordshire; it was also at this point that it started manufacturing its own machines, rather than simply reselling Hollerith equipment.

Annual revenues were £6K in 1915, £122K in 1925, and £170K in 1937. In 1916 there were 45 staff; this increased to 132 in 1922, 326 in 1929 and 1,225 in 1939.

In return for the exclusive right to market Hollerith equipment in Britain and the Empire (excluding Canada), BTM paid 25% of its revenues to the American company by way of royalties. This became an ever-increasing burden as the years progressed; BTM attempted to renegotiate the agreement on several occasions, but it was only finally terminated in 1948.

During World War II, BTM was called upon to design and manufacture a machine to assist breaking the German Enigma machine ciphers. This machine, known as a bombe, was initially conceived by Alan Turing, but the actual machine was designed by BTM chief engineer Harold 'Doc' Keen, who had led the company's engineering department throughout the 1930s. The project was codenamed "CANTAB". The project was managed by computing pioneer Dora Metcalf until 1942. By the end of the European war, over two hundred bombes had been built and installed.

HEC computer
BTM built a valve based computer called the Hollerith Electronic Computer (HEC). The first model (HEC 1) was built in 1951, an example is held by the Birmingham Museum. BTM went on to develop the HEC 2, 2M and 4 models, eventually building more than 100. The machines had a 2 kilobyte drum memory and 1000 valves, and could use punched cards for input and output, or drive a printer.

Merger
In 1959 BTM merged with former rival Powers-Samas to become International Computers and Tabulators Limited (ICT). ICT later became part of International Computers Limited (ICL), which was later taken over by Fujitsu.

title: British Tabulating Machine Company


text:
Butterfly Rocket

Butterfly Rocket is Nikka Costa's fourth studio record and first "adult" album, released in 1996 in Australia on Mushroom Records.

Track listing
Later copies of the album were released with the limited edition bonus CD "Live at the Bridge". The songs were recorded live at The Bridge Hotel in November, 1996.

Singles
Released only in Australia as promotional singles
 * Master Blaster

† Same as the album version

 * Get Off My Sunshine

 * Treat Her Right

title: Butterfly Rocket


text:
File:The Count of Monte Cristo film.jpg

Rationale of fair use for The Count of Monte Cristo (2002 film)

 * 1) The image is being used to illustrate the film in question.
 * 2) No free or public domain images have been located for this purpose.
 * 3) The image is of lower resolution than the original poster.
 * 4) The image does not limit the copyright owners' rights to distribute the film in any way.
 * 5) This image is used on various websites, so its use on Wikipedia does not make it significantly more accessible than it already is.
 * 6) The image is being used for informational purposes only.

Source

 * 1) Derived from a digital capture (photo/scan) of the Film Poster/ VHS or DVD Cover (creator of this digital version is irrelevant as the copyright in all equivalent images is still held by the same party). Copyright held by the film company or the artist. Claimed as fair use regardless.

title: File:The Count of Monte Cristo film.jpg


text: User talk:65.83.25.189

title: User talk:65.83.25.189


text:
User:Oska/Contribution diary, July 2005

4 edits in July including:
 * 1 minor edit
 * 1 user area edit

 * Some more voting on Featured picture candidates

title: User:Oska/Contribution diary, July 2005


text:
Talk:Neil LaBute

Ex-Mormon category
This is an addendum to my recent edit summary, in which I responded to anon 164.50.160.202 by stating, "The criteria for the category is on the category page. It says nothing about considering himself part of a collective group." For this reason LaBute belongs in the Ex-Mormons category, and I have re-added him. I noticed that 164.50.160.202 also removed the link to Exmormonism from the Ex-Mormon category page. I agree with the edit summary in this case, where s/he writes, "The article under 'Ex-Mormonism' seems to have little to do with most of the people listed." Thus I am fine with the anon's edits there. I think removing the link from the category page is preferable to removing LaBute from the category. Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 00:54, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

misanthrope
He's known more as a misanthrope. See the references that I added today.Arbol25 (talk) 11:36, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

error?
"His next play, reasons to be pretty, played Off-Broadway May 14-July 5, 2008 in a production by MCC Theater at The Lucille Lortel Theatre. LaBute's first ever Broadway production is reasons to be pretty which began previews at the Lyceum Theatre on March 6, 2009 with an opening on April 2, 2009." This doesn't read right. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.184.8 (talk) 17:45, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Personal life?
I would assume that a person of his age would have a partner (or previous relationship), maybe a child or two. This is important not as gossip but it can impact an artist's direction and choices in their work, as they go through different stages of life. So, is LaBute just incredibly private and there is NO information on his life outside of his films and plays? It's odd for someone of his age to be such a mystery. 24.188.185.162 (talk) 01:21, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

There have been several references in past interviews where he mentions children, and (I believe) an (ex)-wife. Just because nobody's bothered to put that info here doesn't make it a "mystery". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.224.73.228 (talk) 22:32, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Neil LaBute


text:
Everybody Got Their Something

Everybody Got Their Something is the fifth album by American pop/soul singer Nikka Costa, released in 2001. Although she had released several albums internationally as a child, this was her first release in the United States, and was released on May 22, 2001 by Virgin Records. It peaked at number 120 on the Billboard 200 in June 2001. As of 2005, it has shifted 250,000 units in United States.

Uses in media

 * The title song "Everybody Got Their Something" was originally released as a single in 2000, and was featured in various media: in the pilots of the TV series Arrested Development and Drop Dead Diva; the movies Blue Crush, Coach Carter, The Ugly Truth, and All About Steve; and in episodes of the TV series Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Felicity, ER, and Nip/Tuck; and was used in promos for ABC Daytime. On the strength of the song, she then recorded and released the eponymous album the following year. Chase also used the song in a 2020 commercial. A cover version of the song was used in a 2024 JCPenney commercial.
 * The first single, "Like a Feather", was Costa's biggest hit. The song samples "I Dig Love" by George Harrison. It was used in many of Tommy Hilfiger's advertising campaigns.
 * The song "Push & Pull" was featured in the movie Blow, starring Johnny Depp, and the video was included on its DVD release. Prince covered "Push & Pull" on his direct-to-DVD concert Live at the Aladdin Las Vegas, with the help of Costa.
 * The song "So Have I for You" (co-written by the Beastie Boys) was used in the 2002 Britney Spears film Crossroads.

Leftover tracks
Several tracks were recorded for Everybody Got Their Something, but later excluded from the final release.
 * "Heaven Sinner" appears as a b-side on the "Like a Feather" single and on some promotional copies of the album.
 * Early promotional versions of the album featured the tracks "La La La", "Stranger's Way", "Comes Around, Goes Around" and "Rain". The track "Rain" is an extended version of "I Don't Want to Be the Rain", which is featured on the Japanese edition of the album. "Comes Around, Goes Around" has been occasionally performed live.
 * A stripped-down, acoustic version of "Push & Pull" is featured on the soundtrack of the 2001 movie Blow.
 * An extended version of "Everybody Got Their Something" is featured on the 2009 movie All About Steve.

Singles

 * "Like a Feather" (#53 UK)
 * "Push & Pull" (Promo only)
 * "Everybody Got Their Something" (Promo only)

Personnel
Credits for Everybody Got Their Something adapted from Allmusic

 * Questlove – drums
 * Printz Board – keyboards, trumpet
 * Pat Burkholder – assistant, assistant engineer
 * David Campbell – string arrangements
 * Larry Corbett – cello
 * Nikka Costa – arranger, Celeste, Fender Rhodes, guitar (acoustic), piano, producer, vocal arrangement, vocals, Wurlitzer
 * Richard Dodd – cello
 * Russell Elevado – engineer, mixing
 * Mark Anthony Jones – guitar
 * Pete Magdaleno – assistant, assistant engineer

 * Pino Palladino – bass
 * Len Peltier – art direction, design, photography
 * James Poyser – clavinet, Wurlitzer
 * Billy Preston – clavinet
 * Tony Rambo – assistant, assistant engineer
 * Jeff Skelton – assistant, assistant engineer
 * Luis Sanchez – photography
 * Justin Stanley – bass, Chamberlin, clavinet, digital editing, drums, engineer, guitar, Mellotron, Mini Moog, producer, xylophone
 * Dominique Trenier – executive producer
 * Scott Wolfe – assistant, assistant engineer

title: Everybody Got Their Something


text:
User talk:Alibi

Welcome to Wikipedia!
Hello, welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips:
 * Take a look at the Simplified Ruleset.
 * Read the Tutorial, How to edit a page and the Manual of Style.
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 * Use the Show preview button
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 * Be bold
 * Ignore all rules

If you feel a change is needed, feel free to make it yourself! Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone (yourself included) can edit any article by following the  link. Wikipedia convention is to be bold and not be afraid of making mistakes. If you're not sure how editing works, have a look at How to edit a page, or try out the Sandbox to test your editing skills.

If, for some reason, you are unable to fix a problem yourself, feel free to ask someone else to do it. Wikipedia has a vibrant community of contributors who have a wide range of skills and specialties, and many of them would be glad to help. As well as the wiki community pages there are IRC Channels, where you are more than welcome to ask for assistance.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me on my talk page. Thanks and happy editing, Alphax τεχ 00:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi there, how are you. Matthewfelgate 22:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Alibi


text: User talk:68.98.178.19

title: User talk:68.98.178.19


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Best city in centralamerica

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. --Tony Sidaway Talk 16:29, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Best city in centralamerica
Non-encyclopedic GinaDana 00:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, inherently subjective. Gazpacho 01:28, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete the article title implies POV, and the title is badly written (not that it matters in this case)   — Kjammer  ⌂  01:39, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete; POV. Jaxl | talk 01:46, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete; There is no question.Amren (talk) 02:56, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Almost should've been speedy deleted. EdwinHJ | Talk 03:02, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. POV. Cnwb 04:26, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete; Unsubstantiated, non-verifiable, POV | Celcius 04:45, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete cum Celere! This article is propaganda. Maybe it is a joke.  Even by Central American standards San Salvador is a bad place.Wiki brah 05:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, misspelled article on one person's opinion without any sources. - Mgm|(talk) 09:14, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. POV Roodog2k 13:31, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete; this is by the same flanneur who wrote 'most developed country in Central America', give a few dozen spelling mistakes. POV, badly-written, and unsubstantiated. I am surprised that this page is still standing. IINAG 13:53, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per Kjammmer. -- DS1953 15:08, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. POV. Optichan 19:55, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. POV. *drew 22:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. POV starts already with the name of the article. -Mariano 07:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Osborne Hagger

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Do feel free to edit. --Tony Sidaway Talk :25, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

David Osborne Hagger
Not quite sure what to do with this. It is clearly not an article on the person stated in the title, and appears more a collection of statements from various public agencies on the topic of bovine-sourced materials designed for use in health care. While there may be some basis for an article on BSE and bovine insulin, this is clearly not it. Denni ☯ 00:57, 2005 August 26 (UTC)
 * I've told the people at Mad cow disease about this page. Hopefully they'll look into it. Keep, at least until they say if this article has any mergeable content. --Tito xd 01:25, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep the lead, delete the quotes. - Mgm|(talk) 09:10, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, with re-write! Trollderella 16:43, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't keep. Content should be merged with "The BSE epidemic in British cattle" section of Bovine spongiform encephalopathy which is where those interested would look for it (and expect to find it). Dottore So 19:47, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and rewrite it. *drew 21:59, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text: User talk:68.59.190.210

title: User talk:68.59.190.210


text:
No Place Like Home (Squeeze song)

"No Place Like Home" is the second UK single released from Squeeze's sixth album, Cosi Fan Tutti Frutti. Identical cover art was used for the "By Your Side" single released elsewhere in Europe.

Track listing

 * 7"
 * 1) "No Place Like Home" (4:26)
 * 2) "The Fortnight Saga" (2:40)

 * 12"
 * 1) "No Place Like Home" (4:26)
 * 2) "Last Time Forever" (4:15)
 * 3) "The Fortnight Saga" (2:40)

title: No Place Like Home (Squeeze song)


text:
User:DLoom

Hello! Welcome to my barely-if-ever-used page!

Contact

 * Email: digiku@hotmail.com

title: User:DLoom


text: User talk:80.176.226.244

title: User talk:80.176.226.244


text:
Talk:Arthur Rubinstein

ARTHUR not ARTUR
His name is Artur, not Arthur. This page needs to be moved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.45.72.26 (talk) 02:49, 8 December 2006

 * Rubinstein preferred to use Arthur when in English speaking countries. Since this is the English version of Wikipedia, Arthur it is! THD3 01:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

 * It shouldn't be what he wanted his name to be, it's what his birth name is. For example, if I was famous, and my name is Andrew (it is), and I preferred to be called Andria for some odd reason, are you going to make a page called Andria .... or Andrew .......? Androo123 (talk) 04:18, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If that was the case, then numerous other articles would also be altered. For example, Vladimir Horowitz would be Vladimir Gorovitz, etc.  The Anglicized version of Rubinstein's name is now the standardized version used in English sources.  This is even the case with CD's published by BMG/RCA, which formerly used the "Artur" version (at the insistence of Rubinstein's manager, Sol Hurok), and now refer to him as "Arthur."  Rubinstein's memoirs were also published using the Arthur version.THD3 (talk) 15:13, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * In his memoir, Rubinstein addressed this issue. He wrote that his name was Arthur and not Artur, and that he was greatly irritated by people who insisted on calling him Artur.119.142.152.124 (talk) 06:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

 * That suggests he was always Arthur, from birth, which a reading of the article would also suggest, since there's no mention of Artur until: "Impresario Sol Hurok insisted Rubinstein be billed as Artur for his American concerts, even though the pianist referred to himself as Arthur when in English-speaking countries." Which raises the obvious question: what did he go by in non-English speaking countries? Just because this is English Wikipedia doesn't mean we should ignore this aspect of his life.  There seems to be some disagreement about his birth name.  If he really was born Artur, and later chose to be Arthur (at least in some contexts), we should say something about this.  Likewise, if he was always Arthur, we should say something about why he's frequently shown in reference works as Artur.  --  JackofOz (talk) 08:01, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Rubinstein, a true cosmopolitan, adopted the naming custom of whatever country he was in. In Spanish speaking countries, for example, he went by Arturo.  (I've even seen an old 78 RPM record from Spain in which he was was billed as Arturo Rubinstein.)  But in English speaking countries, he preferred Arthur.  Once Sol Hurok died, he was billed as such on concert listings, but RCA retained the Artur spelling until the 1990s.THD3 (talk) 14:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

 * Artur Rubinstein gets 1.77 million Google hits, compared to 1.38 for Arthur Rubinstein. On the other hand 'Arthur' is used by the Oxford Dictionary of Music. -- Klein zach  01:42, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Dear IP 119, I have Rubinstein's memoirs (there's two of them actually). Can you tell me in which one and where he makes this statement?
 * Also, LIFE magazine used "Artur" . The memoirs themselves were published under an author title of "Artur", . Britannica uses "Artur" . The Sachs and Manildi uses both variants with an explanation - which is probably what is being referred to above.   Volunteer Marek   21:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My copies of Rubinstein's memoirs (first editions by Knopf) were published under the name Arthur Rubinstein. Page 4 of My Young Years contains the following footnote: In later years, my manager Sol Hurok used the h-less "Artur" for my publicity, but I sign "Arthur" in countries where it is common practice, "Arturo" in Spain and Italy, and "Artur" in the Slav countries.[THD3]
 * Hmmm yeah, after looking around a bit it seems like the books were published under various names or something (my copy's in Polish so it's Artur). I also saw that quote - but it doesn't say anything about "being greatly irritated by people who insisted on calling him Artur", that part seems to be made up.  Volunteer Marek   22:51, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Ugh, this is an abomination. I can't believe you are listing him as ARTHUR. Everyone knows it's ARTUR. Literally, everyone. 108.244.74.98 (talk) 06:10, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
 * That is completely and utterly dead wrong. In every possible way.  Literally.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  06:26, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

"Farewell concert"
"Rubinstein's farewell concert: Part 1; Part 2"

This is confusing - those videos are not from Rubinstein last recital, they're from from Pasadena, California, 1975. W.J.M. (talk) 17:51, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

B-class revew
Failed for WP:POLAND due to insufficient inline citations. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:52, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Merger proposal
Someone placed tags proposing to merge Arthur Rubinstein – The Love of Life into Arthur Rubinstein, but failed to provide a rationale here. I can only guess he/she thought the movie wasn't notable separate from the man. However, I must...
 * Strongly oppose - The film won the 1969 Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. Almost every winner of an Academy Award (film or person) clearly meets the Wikipedia notability standard, and thus deserves a separate article. --RBBrittain (talk) 17:20, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - in addition to the reason furnished by RBBrittain, there is precedent elsewhere in Wikipedia. The documentary The Last Romantic is distinct from the article on Vladimir Horowitz.THD3 (talk) 18:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

 * Oppose, seconding RBBrittain and THD3 above.MUSIKVEREIN (talk) 12:23, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose for aformentioned reasons.MisterCSharp (talk) 17:28, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Anton Rubinstein
I am guessing Arthur was not related to Anton. If that is the case, can I say so somewhere in the article? Op47 (talk) 16:06, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

 * No. An encyclopedia is for reporting what is the case, not what is not the case.  Plus, why stop at Anton, when there are so many other notable Rubinsteins?
 * Now, if it had been commonly asserted, incorrectly, that they were related (a la Katherine and Audrey Hepburn, or Elisabeth and Norman Schwarzkopf), then there would be a case for knocking that on the head. But since no such assertion is commonly made, there is no need to deny it. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:44, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

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Film scores
Somebody's ashamed that Rubenstein did film scores - the filmography makes it appear that he barely had any involvement with movies at all. Don G Taylor (talk) 02:41, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Oops, my bad. I was thinking of Arthur B Rubinstein. Don G Taylor (talk) 02:51, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:06, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
 * AR CD Selection.jpg

Pedagogical chain back to Beethoven
The New York Times obituary cited by this article states that Rubinstein's teacher, Karl Heinrich Barth, studied with Liszt. I cannot find the claim of Barth being a pupil of Liszt anywhere else. According to Barth's entry in Grove, Barth studied with Hans von Bülow, Hans Bronsart von Schellendorff, and Carl Tausig. Those three were all pupils of Liszt, so Barth was thus a grand-disciple of Liszt thrice over, but not a pupil. William Avery (talk) 19:03, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Polish Identity
When, as you say, „Rubinstein was deeply attached to Poland“ and to the greatest son of Polish music why did he not show his Polish patriotism by simply returning to Poland after World War II and helping to reconstruct his badly damaged homeland? Could it be that making music and money in the Western countries and enjoying the advantages of the western style of life was even more important than patriotism. Moreover it would have been a great honour to Poland if he had wanted to be buried in his homeland. HarWie (talk) 21:26, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Well, to answer your question, part of Rubinstein's reason for not returning to Poland was the Communist government there. But the purpose of the Talk page is not to discuss such issues, rather to raise points relevant to improving the article.THD3 (talk) 21:17, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Arthur Rubinstein


text:
User:Figgleeeeeo

I'm part of a great, well-known, Australian family. Watch this space.

title: User:Figgleeeeeo


text:
South of Wawa

South of Wawa is a 1991 Canadian comedy film. It was written by Lori Lansens and directed by Robert Boyd.

The film stars Rebecca Jenkins as Lizette, a woman stuck in an unhappy marriage who organizes a road trip with her coworker Cheryl Ann (Catherine Fitch) to see Dan Hill in concert. Although the film's title alludes to the Northern Ontario town of Wawa, the film is actually set in the Western Ontario town of Stayner.

The film was released on VHS in 1995 in Canada by Cineplex Odeon, but as of April 19, 2010, a DVD of the film has yet to be announced.

Plot
Lizette acquires four front-row tickets to the Dan Hill concert in Toronto, Ontario - one for her, one for her husband, Terry (Scott Renderer), one for Simon (Andrew Miller), and one for Simon's date. At the very last minute, Simon's date cancels and the group decides to invite Cheryl Ann to fill the seat.

Cheryl Ann becomes a memorable character not far into the film. She is eager, possesses an open attitude, and has a positive outlook on life no matter what comes at her. Her mother is dying, and she wishes to bring her to Greece for treatment from a "miracle man." Her car sometimes doesn't start and most of the time she ends up walking all the way to her job with Lizette at the donut shop. Despite the unfortunate events she is constantly victim to, Cheryl Ann sees the good in everything.

Lizette wants nothing more but to escape their small town of Stayner and everything in it, including her coworker Cheryl Ann. So when she receives the news that Cheryl Ann will be joining the group for the trip, she is anything but amused. The problem is that Simon will not go on the trip without a date, and Terry will not go without Simon. Both men would rather stay in town and attend the local hockey game, however Lizette wants this trip to be a success and therefore allows Cheryl Ann to come along.

Due to unforeseen circumstances, the evening does not go according to plan and the friends must examine their relationships with each other and others in town.

Cast

 * Catherine Fitch as Cheryl Ann
 * Rebecca Jenkins as Lizette
 * Scott Renderer as Terry
 * Andrew Miller as Simon
 * Samantha Langevin as Helen
 * Stuart Clow as Cam
 * Dawn Greenhalgh as Donna
 * Elias Zarou as Joe
 * Stephanie Forder as Darlene
 * George Touliatos as Serge
 * Michael Gencher as John "The Polack"
 * Alyson Court as Shannon
 * Mark Wilson as Sgt. Tom Goodie
 * Helen Hughes as Mrs. Deneau
 * Elena Kudaba as Gramma Soplinski

Soundtrack
The film's soundtrack includes songs by Cowboy Junkies, Rickie Lee Jones, Lyle Lovett and Lee Aaron.

title: South of Wawa


text:
Talk:Shadow of the Colossus

Heroe's name, Wander?
I was wondering about the heroe's name. I KNOW it's not Wanda (Heaven forbid), but is it really Wander? I always thought he didn't actually have a name, and was only defined as "the wanderer" (or "Wander", because the japanese kind of suck in English). Anyways, I don't have the booklet or anything. Here is a quote from a Gamefaqs FAQ:

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/shadow_of_the_colossus_plot.txt

"Q: So the main character's name is "Wander" then? A: Er, not exactly. You see, he doesn't have a name that we're aware of. The official UK website for Shadow of the Colossus says "It matters not. His efforts were not for the cause of creating a legend for himself" under "What is the wanderer's name?"

I'm on a school computer wich won't let me browse the flash website, so I can't check it out. So what do you think? Can we REALLY say his name is actually Wander, or are we just calling him that by general concenssus? (Not that there's anything wrong with that, as long as it's mentioned)

Same thing goes for Mono.

Happypal 04:31, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I forget exactly, but I think it's mentioned in the credits. -- Steel 12:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I read up, Mono is mentioned in the credits. I'm not sure about Wander though, and even if it is, if the voice credit if it is for Wander, the name, or Wander, "The wanderer"Happypal 13:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Kind of aside from the discussion, but it bears mentioning on the topic. It isn't that the Japanese "suck" at english; rather they have an entire scheme devouted to transcription- katakana.  It is largely a phonetic transcription, but it does have its own rules, both official & unofficial, for encoding pronounciation & translation.  Wanda is ワンダ-- first character "wa", second "n", third "da" (well, ta modified to da).  --mordicai. 13:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That is true. but what I meant by suck is not "wanda" instead of "Wander", but "Wander" instead of "Wanderer".
 * And on a side note, so let's not build on it, regardless of their writing system, the japanese kind of do suck in general in English.
 * I think it's more along the lines that they're far more liberal with English than we are, because for them it's more "something cool" or such. Thus, "Wander" instead of "Wanderer" is fine, since it sounds a bit better and doesn't make a lick of difference to the Japanese.  He's listed in the US release's credits as "Wander" so it should be used as a name - even if it isn't truly his name, it's all we have to go by.  -JC 05:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was Wanda and the Colossus because thats what all the early press said, but I just read something on GameFaqs from a trustworthy source that that was indeed an incorrect translation and that its either Wander or Wonder. I was totally going to go on a rant against this until I looked it up. Well so much for that! And BTW the genders of names change all the time. I know a girl named Clovis, and many masculine names in England are feminine in America like Leslie. Novaterata 05:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

If "Wander" is in the English game, then it is "Wander" in the English Wikipedia. Same deal with Aeris in the Final Fantasy VII article. --Teggles 05:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The Japanese suck at English? Somebody set up them the grammar? 164.58.80.30 21:47, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The main character is indeed named "Wander" (written ワンダ (wanda) in kana) in the Japanese version. Hence the English translation of the Japanese title "Wander and the Colossus" (as seen on the booklet of the game, for example). And I'm not sure why you're talking about their English skills, here, really... 88.161.129.43 (talk) 18:08, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I just beat the game two days ago, and the credits (for the voice actor) say Wander. Same goes for Mono. it's in the credits. Vicco Lizcano (talk) 16:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Just because the Japanese cannot end a word in "erer" does not mean we should not. If they insist on transliterating an english word into their language it does not suddenly make their incorrect spelling of the word correct in english. We spell and pronounce the Chinese word Beijing incorrectly, it does not mean the Chinese should do the same. (Hey! Listen!)
 * You're missing the point... The Japanese can end a word in "erer". "Wanderer" would be "wandarā". But here, it's "wanda", and it stands for the name "Wander", not the English word "wanderer". 88.161.129.43 (talk) 00:58, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

 * So the translators could have spelled it correctly, but because they are apparently more clueless than the arguer originally supposed the translation is correct? Your logic needs work.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.44.180 (talk) 23:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it's important to note that just because the title of the game is translatable as Wander[ing/er] and [the] Colossus, that doesn't imply anything about the protagonist's name. There's nothing about that title that implies that any of the words present is a name—AFAICT, that was an erroneous assumption on the part of the English-speaking media back when they thought the name was Wanda, and when it was clarified that the word was "wander" not "Wanda", they just went "Oh, so the name is Wander, then". ...Of course, its appearance in the credits is an important counter-argument. But that of course was put there by the English translation team... I believe the article ought at least to reflect the controversy, mention that many believe his name to be Wander (or in some cases Wanda), and explain why this may be the case, but point out that it may also not have been intended to refer to the name of the character at all, and leave it at that. --Micahcowan (talk) 02:29, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but you're completely wrong.
 * The original title is "ワンダと巨像" ("Wanda to Kyozō"). If you know just a little bit about the Japanese language, you can tell right away that there is absolutely no ambiguity there: the "wanda" part of that title is a name, not the words "wandering" or "wanderer". The Japanese words for "wandering" or "wanderer" don't look/sound anything like "wanda" (that would have been quite the coincidence, too).
 * The only ambiguity was how that "wanda" name was supposed to be spelled in alphabet (since "ワンダ" / "wanda" only told us how the name was pronounced). Western media simply used the direct transliteration "Wanda" at first, but we later found out the intended alphabet spelling for that name actually was "Wander".
 * Anyway, there is no controversy whatsoever. "Wander" (spelled in Japanese as "ワンダ" / "wanda") is the name of the protagonist.81.220.105.71 (talk) 19:18, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I just checked around for Japanese sources and found a few Japanese sites referring to the protagonist as ワンダ, and the voice actor is apparently credited in the game for ワンダ, just the same as another is for ドルミン - so it's not just the English credits doing that. While "wandering" is a completely acceptable translation for ワンダ, "wanderer" is stretching things a bit more, and I would expect to see 人 or 家 or the like if it was meant to be "wanderer", especially in credits. So I concede the theory was wrong. (Still seems weird to me - "Wander" doesn't seem to fit very well phonetically with the language spoken in the game, and the other translation still makes so much more sense to me as a terse description of the game, which is very common in Japanese titling (cf popular movie titles, such as "Up" being "カールじいさんの空飛ぶ家" ("Old Man Carl's Flying House"), or "Inside Out" being "インサイド・ヘッド" ("Inside [the] Head"))).
 * But to insist the Japanese phrase itself permits no interpretation of that sort is ignorant. There is nothing about the phrase to indicate it's a name, and ワンダ is in fact "wander" in Japanese (though it's more commonly written ワンダー). Check jisho.org for example (but even if it wasn't in a dictionary, using English words is extremely common in Japanese). ワンダ as a noun-ified ーする verb would be used in exactly the way it appears in that phrase (expecting ワンダしてる事 or the like would be quite wrong - ワンダ is the best fit), and would be best translated "Wandering" in English when used that way. If you're using the English-borrowed Japanese verb ワンダする (also spelled ワンダーする) for your "wander", then ワンダ is the (English) gerund "wandering" (not to be confused with the Japanese gerund, which is the -て form). ワンダと巨像 is unambiguously/straightforwardly translatable as "Wandering and Colossus[/Colossi]", without any further information to go on.Micahcowan (talk) 21:07, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
 * 1) "the voice actor is apparently credited in the game for ワンダ, just the same as another is for ドルミン"
 * Indeed. So it should be clear that it's the character's name. And yet you keep arguing, I'm not sure why...
 * 2) "While "wandering" is a completely acceptable translation for ワンダ"
 * Sorry, but it's not. I don't know what else to tell you. "Study more Japanese"?
 * 3) "There is nothing about the phrase to indicate it's a name, and ワンダ is in fact "wander" in Japanese (though it's more commonly written ワンダー)."
 * Please ask yourself this: why would they use (the Japanese transliteration of) the English word "wander" instead of an _actual_ Japanese word meaning "to wander" / "wandering", there?
 * See above: that "ワンダ"/"Wander" is just the name of the main character. Simple as that.
 * 4) "ワンダ as a noun-ified ーする verb would be used in exactly the way it appears in that phrase (expecting ワンダしてる事 or the like would be quite wrong - ワンダ is the best fit)"
 * Again, I'm sorry, but it's fairly obvious you don't know what you're talking about. 89.156.96.33 (talk) 18:55, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Dormin and the Royal 'We'
In the article, Dormin is referred to using the third person plural, i.e., they. Is this because when Dormin speaks it refers to itself using 'we'? I was under the impression that Dormin was a single entity that used the Royal 'We'(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we) when referring to itself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 41.204.46.191 (talk) 13:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

 * And your point is, God in the Quran refers to himself as "We" plenty of times. The objective meaning is -dido- there is no objective meaning its just takin into context.

 * What?

 * I'm confused also... however, to respond to the original question: Dormin is plural, as shown on one of the official web pages (I think the EU one?), especially considering the fact that Dormin has a duo-voice. -JC 10:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

 * No, in the Japanese version, Dormin refers to himself/herself/itself as "washi", and Wander calls him/her/it "anata". Both are singular. 88.161.129.43 (talk) 18:41, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression that Dormin was a spiritual being composed of many entities, similar to Legion (demon). On the official web page it says that Dormin is a being composed of many that speak as one. The two voices heard when Dormin speaks is partial evidence to this. Unknown Dragon 07:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

This article from gamefaqs.com has an extensive discussion of the Dormin and how it calls itself 'we' (like the user before me just mentioned, one of the pieces of evidence it cites is that early in the game Dormin has both a male and female voice, and as the game progresses the female voice disappears). It's probably considered original resource, so we can't post it on the article, but if you are still interested in this question you can at least check it out here. --Politizer (talk) 01:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Another way of looking at the use of "We" could be taken in the idea that Dormin itself is made up of multiple entities, and one is each embodied in a colossus when he (or they) was (or were) sealed, and then as a whole, they refer to themselves as Dormin. To also support this, the voice(s) that he (they) use(s) to speak are layered, and given the effect that many are speaking (both male and female) when it is only suppose to be one. Miguzigirl29 (talk) 05:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

 * But as said above, the Japanese version uses the singular, so it really looks like it's meant to be the royal "we". Erigu (talk) 19:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Dormin's first appearance in the game was a small army of shadow so it's safe to say that he's not one entity. It seems more likely that it's a single conciousness that is split amongst several different entities (notice how when he's rejuvenated at the end of the game he says "I, Dormin"). So he refers to himself as we just because he's multiple creatures who share the same conciousness. --24.46.117.40 (talk) 03:06, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Again, like I just said above, the Japanese version uses the singular... Erigu (talk) 21:18, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Define: Giants
Within the introduction, the text blandly states that you fight 16 'giants'. Actually, you fight 15, as one is the simple size of a normal bull (I forget what number it is, but it involves running into pillars a lot). The term 'Colossus' is a translation and is defined differently under the game's lore, so that terminology cannot be disputed, but the use of the word 'giant' can. It may seem a little pedantic, but everyone else here appears to contesting various other parts of the article, so I thought it best to point out that even the introduction is not entirely accurate. Peace! Melaisis (talk) 22:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what bulls you've been around but the one in SoC is larger than most SUV so it pretty clearly falls into the giant category. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.212.172.93 (talk) 04:47, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Melaisis is referring to Colossus 11 or 14. they are both rather small quadrupeds. I recently read that 11 is supposed to be a tiger and 14 is supposed to be a lion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.169.147 (talk) 23:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes i remember few of them being small. but if we say that there are less than 16 colossus it will create confusing. and they're still pretty big.--Megaman en m (talk) 10:11, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

 * You have to take into account that this is a fictional land, and as such Dormin calls the creatures inhabiting the 'Sacred(Cursed) Land' the Colossi, therefore it could be said that these, mostly gigantic, creatures are always colossi.

 * Think of it this way;
 * Colossus(A) = The dictionary definition of a colossus
 * Colossus(B) = The name given to the creatures that inhabit the 'Sacred Land'

 * Just because a specific Colossus is not a colossus(A) does not mean it's not a colossus(B)
 * Hopefully that made sence... this was the only way I could think to word it.
 * --(Arkensark (talk) 20:09, 28 July 2008 (UTC))

 * Melaisis was disputing the use of the word “giants” to describe the colossi, in the second paragraph of the article. I agree, so I’m changing it. —Frungi (talk) 16:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * um, i don't know who breeds the bulls around you, but Celosia and Cenobia (they're names) are more like the the size of a bull ELEPHANT. anyway, it looks small because of the zoomed out camera, but you could definately see the difference if it was a fps.

Two. There are two "normal bulls." Also, "giant" is a reference to greek mythology, refuring to any of Gaia's children. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.73.49 (talk) 20:36, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Other Media?
Is there any way of mentioning the fact that it was in that film but without such a quick referrence as a full section it currently has? I mean it doesn't really suit the FA standard as it currently is. I mean if we could expand on that in a non trivial way and mentioning other media it has been referrenced in if possible (the only other I know would be The Simpsons Game). Stabby Joe (talk) 19:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The significance of SotC being featured in that film remains unclear to me ("Oh, it was in a film. That's nice. So what?"), but we have IP after IP wishing to include it and this add-remove-add-remove cycle can't carry on forever. I suppose we ould shoehorn it into the reception section somehow - it wouldn't fit well there but it might be the best compromise. What's definitely not going to stay is an entire section devoted to just one line of worthless trivia. – Steel 01:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Good because before I was removing it with the reason "see dicussion" but then I remembered that last time it was settled through messages so now we actually have a "see discussion" Stabby Joe (talk) 15:49, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:VG External Links check
This Featured Article has a total of three dead external links, which can be found here. Please fix them as soon as possible. Thanks! --haha169 (talk) 00:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Atleast 4 dead links, please fix. — Dispenser 00:40, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Dormin--major character, not supporting cast
The Characters section previously claimed that the story "revolves around three characters" (Wander, Agro, and Mono) and "includes a small supporting cast including Dormin and Lord Emon." I have modified that to include Dormin as one of the central characters, rather than part of a supporting cast. Since Dormin is one of the main driving forces of the plot, and appears after each colossus is defeated, and speaks to Wander during the battles, it seems ridiculous to say he's only part of the 'supporting cast'--after all, he has more speaking lines during the game than any other character, and the much of the ending sequence is pretty much all about him. --Politizer (talk) 02:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Nico
Two editors, 88.161.129.43 and 87.231.15.102, have been editing the section regarding the etymology of Nico, the original working title for the game (see the Development section). The issue is whether the name is a portmanteau of "Next" and "Ico," or of "ni" (Japanese for "two") and "Ico." I personally don't lean more or less towards either of these explanations. Currently the only source to support the "Next Ico" explanation is an all-Japanese source.

I acknowledge that "Next Ico" may be a better explanation than "ni Ico," but this cannot be verified by the vast majority of readers...keep in mind that, regardless of the language abilities of any particular editor, this is English Wikipedia and there are guidelines for using non-English sources. With that in mind, the best solution is for a Japanese-speaking editor to look at the Japanese source (currently footnote 34 in the Development section) and provide an English translation, inside the footnote, of the relevant section of that article. Until that is done, I am reverting the article back to the version with both "Next Ico" and "ni Ico," since as things stand neither one can be verified (by most readers) better than the other. --Politizer (talk) 17:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Two editors, 88.161.129.43 and 87.231.15.102
 * That would be me in both cases, actually.
 * I acknowledge that "Next Ico" may be a better explanation than "ni Ico,"
 * Well, it's better in the sense that it comes directly from Ueda. I'd think the guy knows what he's talking about... ^^;
 * The sources claiming that "Nico" is a pun on "ni" (two) and "Ico," on the other hand...
 * the best solution is for a Japanese-speaking editor to look at the Japanese source (currently footnote 34 in the Development section) and provide an English translation
 * I'm not fluent in English, so feel free to correct me:
 * Ueda Fumihito: In the first stages of development, "Wander to Kyozō" was called "Nico," short for "Next Ico." The idea for our new game was to use what we had learned on "Ico" and come up with something new. However, "Nico" was nothing more than a temporary project name and it was clear from the beginning that the title would change. 87.231.15.102 (talk) 19:42, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

 * That translation looks fine to me; would you be able to specify the paragraph or line number, or something? And (this is not totally necessary, but I'm just wondering) give a romaji transliteration of whatever is being translated to "next ico"?  That might help clear things up.
 * Once that info is ready, I can put this translation into the footnote and then either remove the "ni + Ico" stuff, or move it into a footnote or something so it's not so prominent. --Politizer (talk) 19:46, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

 * That excerpt would be Ueda's first answer, at the very beginning of the interview. And I didn't translate "Nico" and "Next Ico," actually: these were in our alphabet to begin with (so I believe you should be able to spot them in the article even if you don't have Japanese fonts on your computer).
 * As for the "ni + ico" explanation, I'd remove it, really... I've never seen a member of the staff come up with that explanation (on the contrary, as we've just discussed), only video game journalists... So it really looks like a (wrong) theory. 87.231.15.102 (talk) 19:53, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Done! Thanks for your help. --Politizer (talk) 00:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Which genres to include in infobox?
24.13.60.69 has removed Puzzle from the genres section of the infobox; I added Platform since the game is also called a platformer in the lead-in (albeit as of a recent edit by a new user), but 24.13.60.69 has removed that and repeatedly reverted my edits. Can we come to a consensus here about what genres should be listed. IGN currently lists it as "3rd-person adventure" in their profile of it and as "adventure" here, but I also have seen it frequently labelled a platformer (the only example I have on hand is this). —Politizer( talk • contribs ) 03:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I think something along the lines of "3rd person adventure" is probably best. Gamespot uses "fantasy action adventure" which I quite like since it seems the most accurate of the lot. I've not seen SotC called a platform game anywhere - allgame only states that it has "platform-game style" elements which is different to calling the game as a whole a platformer. – Steel 13:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Ok, that sounds good to me; if you want to remove Platform from the infobox that's fine. I was just getting tired of the multiple reverts without any consensus having been reached.  But yeah, if you want to leave it at Adventure, Action Adventure, or something along those lines, I won't revert it.  —Politizer( talk • contribs ) 13:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool. I've done that. – Steel 13:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

 * For what it's worth, the official Japanese site calls it an "action-adventure" game. So I think we're good. Erigu (talk) 02:41, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Image:Shadow of the Colossus (2005) - Mono and Wander.jpg
In this edit, Judgesurreal777 removed that image, saying we already have a character image. Do we? I skimmed through the article, and this was the only clear image I saw of the character's face. I didn't want to revert, though, because I figured maybe you think an image of the character's face is unnecessary when some of the other images show the character (although in less detail and clarity, I think) and I figured it would be better to discuss here first. Personally, my vote would be to keep the image in, but again, I don't want to just revert without hearing your thoughts.—Politizer( talk • contribs ) 04:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Over at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games/Wikipedia_0.7_workshop, someone had mentioned that this article had too many fair use images, so I cut the one that seemed to add the least to the article, since the others are gameplay, one shows the main character and one of the colossus, so I thought that would be the best to cut. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:22, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm gonna be reverting. The article has six non-free images, all of which illustrate relevant points in the text...except the album cover, which I'm going to cut now (the album has its own article). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire - past ops) 04:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I do agree with Judgesurreal that an image of the character's face is less important than one showing him "in action" during gameplay. But if removing the unnecessary soundtrack album cover near the bottom allows us to keep that in, that seems like a pretty good tradeoff to me.  —Politizer( talk • contribs ) 14:01, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

List of colossi
I commented out the list of colossi with their latin and other names, because it's totally uninformative to a reader who hasn't played the game; with just the names given (names that are never used in the game) and no mention of what the colossi are like, w here they are found, etc., it's completely uninformative to any reader who hasn't played the game, and to many readers who played the game a while ago and don't remember the specific number that each colossus was. Even if someone wants to add that sort of description, I still don't see why this information is really necessary to the article, but I won't take it out if someone reinstates it with some useful description. As it is now, though, just copy-and-pasted from somewhere, it's useless.

Also, if someone does want to put the list back in, could you please organize it in some kind of table, instead of the bare list that it is now? Since this article is an FA, we shouldn't be introducing ugly things into the article, and the list format this is in is pretty ugly.

And finally, a minor quibble...the original editor who added this information did not source it properly. The source he gave was the game itself (Shadow of the Colossus/NICO/Wanda to Kyozu Edition; Special Collector's Edition; Dengeki (October 2005)). Maybe the collector's edition has special information about the colossi in its instruction book, I don't know, but in that case the instruction book should be cited. Otherwise, the website where the user found these should be cited (I know some of the IGN walkthroughs have these names on them, although I would hesitate to cite one of those when a more official source might be available somewhere). —Politizer talk / contribs 14:22, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Back when the article was first being taken to FA we decided to remove the colossi list because the English translations for the names were unsourced, and people were edit warring over how the Japanese names (which, if I recall correctly, are in the special edition you mentioned. Not sure about the Latin names.) should be translated. Since then the list has reappeared several times in various forms (plain text, wikitable, etc) though so too have the edit wars. Personally I don't particularly mind anymore whether we have the list or not - it's kind of nice but also kind of useless. I've generally left it in the article when it's added in table format since it doesn't look too bad that way, though it's mainly due to laziness: if someone removes it there's an approximately 100% chance someone else will add it back in again at some point, and probably without any wikiformatting. *shrugs* – Steel 18:00, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Maybe the collector's edition has special information about the colossi in its instruction book
 * That's how one of the rumors about that list goes. But that's simply not true. I have that version of the game, and there's no such thing (either that, or I would very much like to know where to look exactly!).
 * According to another version of the story, the list comes from FamiTsū. That's not true either.
 * As far as I can tell, that list is completely bogus. Fan creation or hoax.
 * The official Japanese artbook / guide (ISBN4-7577-2580-9) goes out of its way to state that the Colossi have no official names (page 9, and then again on page 140, where the guide specifically states that they don't have official names according to Ueda himself). Not one official name, not two official names, not three official names. None. Zero. They're just "1st Colossus", "2nd Colossus", etc. They were given nicknames by staff members during development, but nothing "canonical".
 * In case anyone is interested, here are the nicknames for the sixteen Colossi:
 * 1: Minotauros (ミノタウロス)
 * 2: Mammoth (マンモス)
 * 3: Kishi (騎士)
 * 4: Kirin (麒麟)
 * 5: Tori (鳥)
 * 6: Minotauros B (ミノタウロスB)
 * 7: Unagi (ウナギ)
 * 8: Yamori (ヤモリ)
 * 9: Kame (カメ)
 * 10: Nāga (ナーガ)
 * 11: Leo (レオ)
 * 12: Poseidon (ポセイドン)
 * 13: Hebi (ヘビ)
 * 14: Kerberos (ケルベロス)
 * 15: Minotauros C (ミノタウロスC)
 * 16: Eevis (イービス)
 * I really can't think of a reason to include any of that in the article, but hey. Here you go. ^^; Erigu (talk) 04:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That's interesting. I think it decides this whole problem, too. Would you be able to add a sentence along the lines of "the colossi have no official names" to the colossi paragraph, with the citation? – Steel 14:18, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think so. Erigu (talk) 15:10, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

 * This might be what started the whole urban legend about those names.
 * Needless to say, there was no "select Collectors Edition issues (only at select retailers) of Dengeki PlayStation made just for the game"... Erigu (talk) 15:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Rhodesian war?
"He has a small group of soldiers at his command, and is pursuing Wander to prevent the use of "the forbidden spell", the ritual involving the destruction of the sixteen colossi.[26] Emon and his men were trained by the Rhodesian Army in 1977, and served in the Grey's Scouts horse cavalry unit in the Rhodesian Bush War." what's that suppose to mean
 * Vandalism. Reverted. — Blue. 11:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Because of its artistic merit, Shadow of the Colossus has garnered some attention from literary theorists. In "'Play, Memory': Shadow of the Colossus and Cognitive Workouts," literary theorist Dave Ciccoricco applies the distinction of episodic and procedural memory from cognitive science to the game toward a richer understanding of how the game mechanics work along with the mechanics of the game's narrative.[65]

what does that even mean? horrible context —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.89.20 (talk) 16:49, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Agro
Throughout the article Agro is referred to with male pronouns, but I don't recall the horse's gender being specifically identified. Just checked the manual and it doesn't say one way or the other either. The pronouns should probably be changed to be gender-neutral, unless someone knows of a source that clearly states that Agro is a male horse. 221.95.134.29 (talk) 12:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * According to Ueda, Agro is female.
 * 'Not sure where you'd want to put that in the article, so here are the references:
 * Cite book | year=2006 | editor=Editors of Famitsū | title=Wander to Kyozō Kōshiki Kōryaku & Setteibon Inishie no Chi Kitan | page=202 | language=Japanese | publisher=Enterbrain
 * Good call, anyway. Erigu (talk) 04:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and edited the article. I think it should do. Erigu (talk) 05:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Hum, English's not my first tongue, but shouldn't animals be called "it"? --Anthony Lorrain (talk) 20:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Animals that are personified and have a close relationships with humans often get to use human pronouns. For example, people usually call their pets (particularly dogs and cats) "him" or "her", and rarely "it". r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 20:31, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Non-free image
What does File:Shadow of the Colossus (2005) - Mono and Wander.jpg do for this article? Why do we need a non-free image to show what Wander and Mono look like—as far as I can tell, the article contains no critical commentary on their designs. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 13:20, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This is an improvement, but I still am not convinced that a picture is necessary just to illustrate that the characters both have long hair (the prose explains that pretty well). r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 16:30, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Wander's Physical Degrade?
It says in the article that throughout the game Wander's physical appearance steadily gets worse in that "his skin gets paler, his hair gets darker, he gets stripes across his face and he begins sprouting little horns."

I just finished the game and I don't recall any of those occurring (I zoomed in on him while taking cover from the final Colossus). His hair really stayed the same shade of black and I did not see any horns (nor any horns on the baby). I thought the dark stripes across his face wasn't the result of some demonic possession by Dormin but really he was just getting scruffy. After all he's been through there's probably going to be some dirt smeared on his face. And his skin didn't get paler but I did notice it got slightly darker but that's, again, he just got more scruffy.

Can anyone fully verify that this actually happened in the game? Because I don't recall it until the game's ending when he was fully possessed by Dormin (and his skin was far paler than it was during the final battle). --24.46.117.40 (talk) 03:03, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

 * It's true: it does happen. Erigu (talk) 21:19, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
 * After playing the time trial mode I do admit that his hair got darker. But I don't think his skin got paler and I never noticed any horns. Also I sincerely doubt those dark stripes were a result of his posesssion by Dormin, it seems more likely that it's dirt smeared on his face than a spiritural possession. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.117.40 (talk) 00:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree, I could easily perceive his face getting pale and veiny black color creeping into it. And I believe that's what the source says as well. r ʨ anaɢ talk/contribs 10:30, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Ditto. I missed it for the first few colossi, but by colossus 4 I was definitely suspicious and by 6 I was certain, and by 7 I had begun to suspect the message.
 * A few months ago, I read Well Played 1.0, which has a good essay called "Losing Your Grip: Futility and Dramatic Necessity in Shadow of the Colossus":

"'Leaving aside this brief moment of awareness, Wander’s transformation through the story is primarily one of loss. This is manifested in two developments throughout the game. The first is Wander’s bodily degradation from level to level. The struggle that Wander goes through to defeat each colossus and the death he suffers after each victory take their toll on Wander, represented by his slow loss of color and weight. The effect is subtle from level to level, but by the end of the game, the change is dramatic – Wander has gone from a healthy-looking warrior to a white, gaunt shadow of his former self. This is a purely visual change; the player suffers no gameplay effect from the transformation, but the degeneration is no less striking. And Wander suffers a similar emaciation of his social world when Agro is taken from him on the path to the final colossus. Agro is lost as the horse throws Wander across a collapsing bridge, plummeting to his seeming death in order to further Wander’s quest. At this moment, Wander is allowed a moment of emotion to grieve his loss, but it is only momentary. After a few calls and a lingering look into the chasm, Wander turns back to his climb with no further reference to the loss. Between both of these developments, Wander’s quest can be seen as a set of sacrifices, both of body and of companionship.'"
 * This is a published book, mind you, and thus a RS; that should, I think, settle the issue. --Gwern (contribs) 13:55 13 January 2010 (GMT)
 * After playing the time trials I will say that he did get paler and his hair far darker but I'm still pretty sure those marks were just dirt. I never actually thought otherwise. Also I never noticed the horns. Those are the two things that I didn't really notice. --24.46.117.40 (talk) 01:57, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Third Colossi Needs Environment To Be Defeated?
The article says that the first two Colossi can be defeated in a straightforward manner but the majority of the following battles requires the player to use the surrounding environment. But I don't recall any necessity for the environment against the third Colossus. It wasn't until the fourth Colossus that the player needed to use the surrounding environment to defeat the foe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.117.40 (talk) 00:24, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You need to stand on a stone block to get him to break his bracelet thing. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 01:23, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Ciccoricco 2008 ?
Hi everybody! Does anyone know which book or article ref 35 (Ciccoricco 2008) came from, so that it could be cited fully (title, publisher, page number, etc). Kaguya-chan (talk) 21:38, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's the same as ref 71. I'll edit it. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 21:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops. Thank you for clearing that up. It makes more sense now. Kaguya-chan (talk) 22:02, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

There is a metal band called "Shadow of the Colossus"
They took their name from the videogame, also the band's logo, album artwork and song's lyrics are related to the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11f2-1-bG-0&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLB256679AC81431B4 http://www.facebook.com/SOTCofficial I think this must be mentioned, but i don't know in what part of the article place it. Nicrorus (talk) 02:11, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

 * It's mentioned on the page now, I really think they're notable enough to be mentioned on the article, I mean they made two full lengths, fairly popular in heavy music and they have the drummer from Molotov Solution and basically the entire lineup from Fate (another popular deathcore band around the time of MySpace). If this was just a crappy ReverbNation band I wouldn't have bothered but they really are something to be talked about if a article about the video game they're based upon exists Second Skin (talk) 21:37, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

 * After discussion of this on the Noticeboard for Reliable Sources, I believe it is appropriate to remove this from the article. Please see here Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_210. Kevinjaems (talk) 20:18, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I have never thought this should be in the article. – Steel 10:55, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

I just think they deserve a mention on the page. I mean they're not a super trivial band, fairly notable/known in deathcore music. Second Skin (talk) 20:55, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Information in Japanese artbook
An artbook for Shadow of the Colossus was released exclusively in Japan, and contains over two hundred pages of information. It can be read online here, but as I said, it's Japanese, and the accompanying translations are incomplete and unconfirmed. There's an article about the artbook over at the Team Ico Wiki, and it contains a list of things which it claims to have been revealed in the artbook, such as: There's plenty more where that came from, including details on the game's original alternate ending, which was planned to be accessible to players who had Ico game saves on their memory cards. A fan wiki isn't a reliable source, so I'm hoping a Japanese speaker will be able to confirm whether this is an accurate description of the information in the artbook. If so, it belongs in the Wikipedia article too. —Flax5 15:37, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The voice heard whenever Wander defeats a colossus is Mono, asking him to stop. The voice grown stronger because she is gradually restored to life throughout the game.
 * Time does not flow in the Forbidden Lands; it was frozen as part of the spell that imprisoned Dormin. This is why it always seems to be daytime. When Wander arrives at the beginning of the game, the seal begins to loosen, and the flow of time slowly begins to reassert itself. By the end of the game, time is flowing again, which is presumably why the final colossus (whose location is called "The Broken Seal") is fought during the night.
 * The credits montage shows what Mono sees when she is resurrected.
 * Agro's survival after falling off the bridge is miraculous, and the developers think that a supernatural force intervened to save her.
 * The hawks at the beginning and the ending of the game are one and the same; this is meant to convey they idea that the game's story is a legend, being told and retold.

Argo is a female?
I will admt that I didn't look at the reference, as it had no web link, but I believe that Argo is male. In-game, when one first plays and is taught how to ride Wander's horse, it calls Argo, "him." Shall we change the current wording to "him" then, or if this should be controversial change the wording to "it"? The Sackinator (talk) 16:28, 25 March 2013 (UTC) Since I have received no responses, I will simply reword it. The Sackinator (talk) 20:59, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The Japanese source for "she" is longstanding and genuine, so I'd hesitate to toss it out completely. Instead I've rephrased the entire paragraph to avoid pronouns, and added one extra sentence about the conflicting sources. I've also included the exact line where the in game instructions use "him". Rapture's Sander Cohen (talk) 21:45, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Bravo! The latest revision looks great. The Sackinator (talk) 20:43, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Dead Links
Using the Checklinks tool, I've updated this article's dead links. A few notes:

 * Ref 10 (fixed) 404 error. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Updated with current URL on Gamespot.com.
 * Ref 14 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 18 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 29 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 34 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 44 (fixed) 404 error. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
 * Ref 46 (fixed) connection issue. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 59 (fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 67 (replaced) see below.
 * Ref 70 (removed) see below.
 * Ref 71 (now 70)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 75 (now 74)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 77 (now 76)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 79 (now 78)(fixed) redirect loop. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
 * Ref 80 (now 79)(fixed) redirect loop. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
 * Ref 81 (now 80)(fixed) redirect loop. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
 * Ref 82 (now 81)(fixed) redirect loop. Page cannot be crawled by Wayback due to Robots.txt. Page no longer available on Gamespot.com. Updated with archive.today.
 * Ref 83 (now 82)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 84 (now 83)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 85 (now 84)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 88 (now 87)(not fixed) 404 error. No archive exists on Wayback, WebCite, or archive.today. A search on GamesRadar didn't turn up anything. Added dead link tag.
 * Ref 92 (now 91)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.
 * Ref 93 (now 92)(fixed) 404 error. Updated with Wayback.

Some other problems I noticed:

Ref 20 - An erroneous citation follows the ref tag named "ignpreview" at the end of the second to last paragraph in the development section. The problem is that (1) this reference is to 1up.com, and (2) the refname "ignpreview" is used elsewhere in the article (with a different set of cite web parameters), causing this citation to not show up in the refernces section. Here is the erroneous citation. Someone who is more familiar with the article, please add this back in where appropriate and with the correct citation data.

cite web | author=IGN site staff | year=2005 | title=Shadow of the Colossus PS2 Preview | url=http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3142480&did=1 | work=1UP.com | accessdate=August 2, 2006

Ref 67 - While I did find an archive of the original citation, I think it'd be better to directly cite Famitsu.com's page for SOTC rather than a third party reprint of a third party reprint. Updated with new citation.

Ref 70 - This dead link simply linked to the reviews section on Gamespot.com, and the only archive redirects to the review cited in Ref 10. However, since the citation is apparently used to back up a claim about Eurogamer (which already has the proper source), and since it is only referenced once, I'm removing it instead of merging it. If you feel this was done in error, please replace it with Ref 10 (refname "gamespotreview") instead on adding back the broken link. Below is the removed citation.

ref name="scores" cite web | editor=GameSpot site staff | year=2005 | title=Shadow of the Colossus for PlayStation 2 Reviews | url=http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/adventure/wandaandthecolossus/review.html?mode=web | work=GameSpot | accessdate=July 30, 2006

Ref 71 (now 70) - No consensus was reached in the brief discussion over using Thunderbolt as a reference. Since there is certainly a wealth of reviews for this game, someone more familiar with the subject matter might consider replacing it. Here is a list of sources considered reliable by WPVG, and here is a custom google search that only searches sites on the reliable source list.

Ref 78, 79, 80, 81 - All had identical citation data (excepting URL). I modified the citation names with page numbers to distinguish between them.

Ref 83, 84, 85 - All had identical citation data (excepting URL). I modified the citation names with page numbers to distinguish between them.

This review was not comprehensive and there may be problems I missed. Someone more familiar with the article might want to go through and review the other citations to make sure everything else is in order. --chrisFjordson (talk) 03:57, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

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WP:URFA/2020
A number of the sources used in this discussion are either dubious, or listed as marginal or unreliable at WP:VG/RS. If these sources are not replaced with high-quality RS, this article may undergo a featured article review. List is below.

Dubious

 * TrustedReviews
 * Press Start Online
 * The Gaming Intelligence Agency
 * Insert Credit (no consensus)
 * Cane and Rinse
 * Zone of the Gamers
 * GameChew
 * Find Articles
 * ControllerFreaks
 * Kikizo (no consensus)
 * Thunderbolt (no consensus)
 * Destructoid (situational, is Chad Concelmo a reliable author?)
 * Kotaku circe 2007 and 2009 (post-2010 is listed as okay, but two are from before then)
 * HeyUGuys

Sources that are listed as unreliable at VGRS and need replaced

 * Neoseeker
 * Nintendo Everything

Hog Farm Bacon 04:19, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Shadow of the Colossus


text:
DeltaPlex Arena

The DeltaPlex Arena & Conference Center (formerly the Stadium Arena and Grand Rapids Stadium) was a 5,500-seat multipurpose arena in Walker, Michigan, United States. It was the home of the Grand Rapids Gold of the NBA G League and the Grand Rapids Wanderers of the Major Arena Soccer League 3. Built in 1952 as The Stadium Arena, the facility was purchased and renovated in the 1990s and was renamed The DeltaPlex Arena & Conference Center in 1998. The venue hosted many sporting events, political events, national touring concerts, and expos. The arena was a 23000 sqft space with a 52 ft ceiling, and could accommodate up to 8,000 people for concerts. The DeltaPlex was purchased by Visser Brothers Inc. and officially closed on July 31, 2022 to be converted into warehouse space.

History
The original building was constructed in 1952, and was originally named the Stadium Arena. The building had an arched roof design with wooden arch supports instead of steel. The building housed many different tenants including two defunct IHL Hockey teams. The Grand Rapids Rockets in the 1950s (an NAHL team of the same name played in the building during the 1990s) and the Grand Rapids Owls in the late 1970s until 1980. During the 1960s and early 1970s it was home to Atlantic Mills Department Store. It was also home for a short time to a drive-in theater, known as the Stadium Drive-In Theater. For most of its life it was located at the corner of Turner Ave. and West River Drive. However, due to a reconstruction of West River Drive, the parking lot was enlarged and Turner Ave. ended at West River Drive.

It was the Grand Rapids area's main indoor entertainment facility until the opening of Van Andel Arena in 1996. In the mid-1990s the building was sold to the Langlois Family. After the purchase an extensive, ground-up restoration and remodeling regimen followed and the newly christened DeltaPlex was born.

The arena served as the Grand Rapids chapter of Arena Racing. It also previously hosted the Grand Rapids Flight of the International Basketball League in 2008. In 2010, the DeltaPlex Arena was home to the West Michigan ThunderHawks of the Indoor Football League.

The DeltaPlex was the home of the Denver Nuggets' NBA G League affiliate, the Grand Rapids Gold.

On April 27, 2022 it was announced that the DeltaPlex Arena would close permanently on July 31, 2022.

title: DeltaPlex Arena


text:
Can'tneverdidnothin'

Can'tneverdidnothin' is the second studio album by Nikka Costa. The album was released May 24, 2005, by Virgin Records. It received generally favorable reviews from critics.

Personnel
Credits for Can'tneverdidnothin' adapted from Allmusic

 * ?uestlove - drums on ("Happy in the Morning")
 * Charlie Bisharat - violin
 * John Blackwell - drums ("Around the World")
 * Printz Board - horn on ("Can'tneverdidnothin", "Funkier Than a Mosquita's Tweaker")
 * Jon Brion - organ on ("I Gotta Know"), synthesizer on ("Happy in the Morning")
 * Aillene Bullock - composer ("Funkier Than a Mosquita's Tweaker")
 * David Campbell - string arrangements on ("I Gotta Know", "Around the World")
 * Dave Chegwidden - bongos, conga on ("Fooled Ya Baby", "Funkier Than a Mosquita's Tweaker")
 * Larry Corbett - cello
 * Nikka Costa - audio production, composer, Fender Rhodes, keyboard, Korg synthesizer, piano, producer, tambourine, vocals
 * Shawn Davis - composer, bass, guitar (bass)
 * Joel Derouin - violin
 * Bruce Dukov - violin
 * Berj Garabedian - violin
 * Brian Gardner - mastering
 * Ranjit Grewal - photography
 * Chris Holmes - engineer on ("I Gotta Know", "Around the World")

 * Stan "Chance" Howard - Moog bass, Moog synthesizer, organ
 * Lenny Kravitz - bass, drums, bass
 * Abe Laboriel, Jr. - drums
 * Felix Lau - assistant engineer
 * Brian LeBarton - clavinet, organ
 * Tim LeBlanc - engineer
 * Joshua "Trumpet Solo" Lopez - guitar, guitar (electric), shaker
 * Roger Joseph Manning, Jr. - clavinet
 * Manny Marroquin - mixing
 * Keith Megna - guitar, guitar (acoustic), guitar (electric), sitar
 * Wendy Melvoin - guitar (electric)
 * Adam Moseley - engineer, mixing
 * Tim Izo Orindgreff - horn, horn arrangements on ("Can'tneverdidnothin", "Funkier Than a Mosquita's Tweaker")
 * Len Peltier - art direction, design
 * James Poyser - Moog synthesizer
 * Satnam Ramgotra - drums, turntables
 * Brian Reitzell - drums
 * Steven Rhodes - engineer
 * Craig Ross - composer, guitar, guitar (acoustic), guitar (electric)
 * Jim Scott - mixing
 * Sinisha - photography
 * Justin Stanley - audio production, bass, engineer, fuzz bass, guitar, guitar (bass), guitar (electric), kalimba, Mellotron, mixing, organ, percussion, producer

Singles

 * "I Don't Think We've Met" (Promo only)
 * "Till I Get to You" (Promo only)

title: Can'tneverdidnothin'