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AC Perugia Calcio

Associazione Calcistica Perugia Calcio, or simply Perugia, is a professional football club based in Perugia, Umbria, Italy, that competes in the.

Founded in 1905 as Associazione Calcistica Perugia, the club folded in 2005 and were re-founded the same year as Perugia Calcio, before dissolving once again in 2010, taking on its current name.

The club has played 13 times in the Serie A; their best placement was finishing runners-up in 1978–79 year unbeaten, becoming the first team under the round-robin format to finish the Serie A season without defeats. In addition to various minor league titles, the club has won the 2003 UEFA Intertoto Cup, and has made two UEFA Cup appearances. In its Serie A spell under club president Luciano Gaucci around the turn of the century Perugia had some upset wins at home, most notably against Juventus on the final day in 2000, which lead to their opponents dropping the title win to Lazio. Gaucci's era ended with relegation in 2004 after which bankruptcy unfolded.

The club's players are nicknamed "biancorossi" (red and whites) due to their historical kit colours, which include red shirts and socks accompanied by white shorts, and "grifoni" (griffins), inspired by their city's heraldic symbol. They play their home matches at the 28,000-capacity Stadio Renato Curi. In the 1979–80 season, they became the first Italian football team to show a kit sponsorship.

A.C. Perugia (early years)
A.C. Perugia were founded on 9 June 1905, after the merger of U.S. Fortebraccio and Libertas. During the early 1900s, the club primarily engaged in regional competitions. Throughout the 1930s, Perugia experienced significant growth, culminating in its inaugural promotion to Serie B in 1933. Notably, in 1937, Perugia constructed its first official stadium, Santa Giuliana. After a second promotion to Serie B in the season 1945–46, Perugia spent almost all of the 1950s in the lower divisions.

A.C. Perugia (1960s-1975)
The 1960s marked a resurgence for Perugia, under the presidency of prominent local entrepreneur Lino Spagnoli. The promotion to Serie B in the 1966-1967 season would mark the beginning of one of the club's most successful periods. Perugia spent the next eight years in Serie B before promotion to Serie A for the first time in 1975. The society underwent profound renewal, with the arrival of Apulian entrepreneur Franco D'Attoma as president and with a new technical and managerial staff, including Ilario Castagner, a former player for the team in the early part of the previous decade, as coach, and Silvano Ramaccioni as sporting director. Several new players joined the team, including defender Pierluigi Frosio, midfielders Franco Vannini and Renato Curi, and forward Paolo Sollier. Sollier gained attention beyond football circles and was known for using a clenched fist salute on the pitch. Perugia secured promotion to Serie A with a three-point lead over Como and a four-point lead over Verona.

A.C. Perugia (D'Attoma years)
The newly promoted Perugia, competing in the new Comunale di Pian di Massiano stadium, embarked on its inaugural Serie A campaign, retaining much of the squad from the previous season. Their debut match in Serie A was against Milan on October 5, 1975. On May 16, 1976, Renato Curi - who played a pivotal role in Perugia's journey to Serie A - scored the decisive goal in the Perugia-Juventus match, sealing Torino's victory in the championship against Juventus. Additionally, Perugia made its debut in European competitions during that season, participating in the Mitropa Cup. Curi's performances and goals were crucial in securing Perugia's commendable sixth-place finish in the following season, making them the highest-ranked team excluded from UEFA qualification. Tragically, the talented Curi died on October 30, 1977, from a heart attack during a home match against Juventus, leaving a lasting impact on the club and leading to the stadium's renaming in his honor.

Despite this loss, Perugia continued to excel. The following season, they made history by becoming the first team to complete a Serie A campaign undefeated, finishing runners-up in 1979 with 11 wins and 19 draws, resulting in the only unbeaten side not to win a title. Perugia's unbeaten record in the Serie A lasted for 37 matches from April 1978 until October 1979. Led by Castagner, the team's cohesive performance saw them finish second in the league standings behind AC Milan, earning widespread admiration as the "Perugia of miracles." Among the key figures in their ranks were captain Pierluigi Frosio, along with Franco Vannini, Antonio Ceccarini, and Salvatore Bagni.

Ahead of the 1979–80 season, Perugia ambitiously signed Italy national team striker Paolo Rossi from L.R. Vicenza. Also notable was President D'Attoma's pioneering commercial deal with the Ponte pasta factory, which marked the first instance of a kit sponsorship for an Italian football team, setting a precedent in the history of Italian football.

Despite Rossi's performance as a goal scorer, the team couldn't replicate their previous success, seeming overwhelmed by newfound fame. Perugia struggled in the league and their first UEFA Cup appearance ended early in the round of 16 against Aris Thessaloniki. The ongoing absence of a key midfielder like Vannini, who later retired due to injury, further hindered their season.

However, as the club appeared to have solidified its position in Italian football, an unexpected turn of events occurred. In March 1980, the Totonero scandal erupted, implicating Rossi himself and indirectly impacting Perugia's fate. The team collapsed, finishing the season in a nondescript seventh place and was penalized five points in the following season, which ultimately led to relegation in 1981.

A.C. Perugia (1980s)
The club spent the first half of the 1980s trying to get back to Serie A, nearly succeeding under the management of Aldo Agroppi in the 1984-1985 season, narrowly missing promotion back to Serie A by just one point, setting records for the fewest defeats (1) and most draws (26 out of 38 matches) in the Serie B, a sign of potential resurgence. However, the club's decline continued, culminating in a double relegation to Serie C2 in 1986 due to their involvement in the 1986 Totonero scandal, despite already facing relegation on the pitch. It was during this time that Fabrizio Ravanelli would be discovered, he would later go on to a career with Reggiana, Juventus, Middlesbrough and several other clubs before returning to Perugia.

A.C. Perugia (Gaucci years)
In 1991, the entrepreneur and sportsman Luciano Gaucci took control of the club. His impactful legacy with the team endured until 2005, characterized by notable moments, including the contentious attempt to recruit the first female footballer for a male Serie A side, an unexpected victory against championship contender Juventus in 2000, and the triumph in the Intertoto Cup in 2003.

Gaucci, known for his unconventional methods of dealing with players, coaches, and journalists, expressed his determination to swiftly return the Biancorossi to the top flight, a goal he achieved within five years. To accomplish this, Gaucci initiated significant transfer campaigns in the early 1990s, making notable signings such as Giuseppe Dossena and Giovanni Cornacchini. Despite narrowly missing promotion in the 1991–1992 season, Perugia secured promotion to Serie B the following year after defeating Acireale in a playoff match. However, the joy was short-lived as Gaucci was embroiled in a scandal involving a gift of a horse to the family of a favorable referee, leading to the denial of Serie B promotion by the Italian Football Federation. Nevertheless, the 1993–1994 season saw Perugia, led by Ilario Castagner, dominate their group and earn promotion to Serie B, with Cornacchini clinching the top scorer title for the second consecutive year. The team's stay in Serie B lasted only two seasons, as they achieved promotion to Serie A in the 1995–1996 season under the guidance of Giovanni Galeone. Led by captain Federico Giunti and striker Marco Negri, Perugia secured promotion with a dramatic victory over Verona, ultimately sealing their return to the top flight after a fifteen-year absence.

Perugia started well before Gaucci's decision to replace Galeone with Nevio Scala. The side's form subsequently declined before a late rally gave them a chance of survival- a 2–1 defeat at Piacenza in the final round ultimately determined relegation by tie-breaker rules due to finishing level on points. With Castagner back in charge, Perugia won a play-off with Torino to secure a return to the top flight.

The next six seasons saw Perugia hold their own in Serie A with foreign imports including the Japanese international Hidetoshi Nakata in 1998 and the Ecuadorian top goal scorer Ivan Kaviedes. The team came under scrutiny when Gaucci criticised and eventually terminated the contract of his own player, Ahn Jung-Hwan of South Korea, for scoring the golden goal that knocked Italy out of the 2002 FIFA World Cup, and allegedly insulting the Italian nation. Ahn's national manager Guus Hiddink spoke out against the sacking.

In the summer of 2003, Perugia signed English striker Jay Bothroyd, and Al-Saadi Gaddafi (the son of Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi). Soon after, the club were one of three winners of the 2003 UEFA Intertoto Cup after beating VfL Wolfsburg of Germany 3–0 on aggregate. This qualified the team to the 2003–04 UEFA Cup, in which they were eliminated in the third round by PSV Eindhoven.

Perugia Calcio (2005–2010)
The new chairman Vincenzo Silvestrini had re-established the club in 2005 as Perugia Calcio.

After a takeover, in 2009 Perugia Calcio property passed to Perugian entrepreneur and former Pisa owner and chairman Leonardo Covarelli. On 21 May 2010 the Court of Perugia declared the bankruptcy of Perugia Calcio srl. Nobody decided to take over the society at the subsequent auction and on 30 June 2010 the club was unable to join the Italian third level championship 2010–2011. The Italian Football Federation decided on 8 July 2010 to revoke the affiliation of the bankrupt Perugia Calcio Srl.

A.C. Perugia Calcio (2010–present)
In July 2010, a new club with the same denomination as ASD Perugia Calcio and inheriting the old side history, was entered into the Serie D with local entrepreneur Roberto Damaschi as chairman.

On 10 April 2011, Perugia became the first team of the season to get promoted from Serie D to the Lega Pro Seconda Divisione 2011–12, after a 3–2 home victory against Castel Rigone. The club also won the 2010–11 Coppa Italia Serie D, beating Turris 1–0 in the final.

In summer 2011 the club was renamed Associazione Calcistica Perugia Calcio, to play in the Lega Pro Seconda Divisione/B obtaining immediate promotion to Lega Pro Prima Divisione. On 4 May 2014, beating Frosinone 1–0, AC Perugia won the 2013–14 Lega Pro Prima Divisione championship and gained promotion to Serie B after a 9-year absence from Italy's second highest football division. Additionally, Roman entrepreneur Massimiliano Santopadre acquired full ownership of the club's shares.

On 2 May 2021, Perugia finished in first place in group B of the 2020–21 Serie C, and were promoted back to the Serie B. Their promotion came after consecutive wins in the last five games on the season, having been in third place, six points from first place. The club was relegated back to Serie C at the end of the 2022–23 Serie B season.

League

 * Serie B
 * Winner: 1974–75
 * Serie C1
 * Winner: 1932–33, 1966–67, 1993–94, 2013–14, 2020–21
 * Serie C2
 * Winner: 1987–88, 2011–12

Cups

 * Supercoppa di Lega Pro
 * Winner: 2014
 * Supercoppa di Serie C2
 * Winner: 2012
 * Coppa Italia Serie D
 * Winner: 2010–11

European

 * UEFA Intertoto Cup
 * Winner: 2003

Records

 * Serie A:
 * Runners-up and unbeaten: 1978–79

title: AC Perugia Calcio


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Felindre

Felindre is a rural village in southern Wales. Felindre is located in the far north of Swansea, in the electoral ward of Mawr.

The nearby Lower Lliw Reservoirs are a popular venue for walking and fishing. The water mill in the village was working until the late 1960s, there was also an abattoir and a post office in the village. It has three shops. There is also a public house in the village, the Shepherds Inn. The primary school in the village was Welsh speaking and closed in 2019.

Felindre works site
In 1956, the Steel Company of Wales opened a tinplate works at Felindre to complement new facilities at Port Talbot and Trostre. In 1967, the Steel Company of Wales was nationalised, becoming part of British Steel Corporation, which inherited the additional tinplate works at Ebbw Vale Steelworks. By 1970, Felindre works employed 2,500 people and was producing 490,000 tonnes of tinplate per annum. Having already closed the tinplate works at Port Talbot, on review of the three remaining tinplate plants within its South Wales division, in December 1980 it was decided to close the site at Felindre. In March 1981, 1,300 people were made redundant, though 138 were found jobs at Trostre, leaving 768 on site. Production was run down until 1989, when another 108 were given jobs at Trostre. The grounds of the former steelworks played host to the National Eisteddfod 2006.

Sport
In 2006 Felindre was part of the World Rally Championship servicing the rally cars whilst they compete in the Welsh Rally, a round of the (WRC) World Rally Championship. For 2007 the site moved to the Swansea SA1 area.

Notable people

 * Air Vice Marshal Meredith Thomas, CSI, CBE, DFC, AFC (1892–1984), senior RAF commander in WWII and flying ace in WWI
 * Alan Jones (born 1938), cricketer, played 645 First-class cricket matches

Future plans
A new railway station is planned near the former Felindre works site and Junction 46 of the M4 Motorway.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Felindre


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Wee

Wee or WEE may refer to:

 * Wee, a slang term for urine (see also wee-wee)
 * Wee, short stature, or otherwise small

Anthroponym

 * Wee (surname), Chinese surname and name
 * Wee Willie Harris, singer
 * Wee Willie Webber, Philadelphia radio and television personality
 * Wee Man, actor
 * Pee-wee Herman, comedian
 * Pee Wee Crayton, singer

Biochemistry

 * WEE virus, the western equine encephalitis virus
 * Wee1, a nuclear protein

Arts

 * In the Wee Small Hours, album of Frank Sinatra
 * In the Wee Small Hours of the Morning, song in this album
 * The Wee Hours Revue, album by Roman Candle
 * The Wee Free Men, comic fantasy novel
 * The Pee-wee Herman Show (1980), stage show by Pee-wee Herman
 * Big Top Pee-wee (1985), a film with Pee-wee Herman
 * Pee-wee's Big Adventure (1988), a film with Pee-wee Herman
 * Pee-wee's Playhouse (1986–1990), a program by Pee-wee Herman
 * Pee-wee's Big Holiday (2016), a film with Pee-wee Herman
 * Ooh Wee, song by Mark Ronson

Transport

 * Weeley railway station, Tendring, England, National Rail station code WEE

title: Wee


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Monitorial System

The Monitorial System, also known as Madras System or Lancasterian System, was an education method that took hold during the early 19th century, because of Spanish, French, and English colonial education that was imposed into the areas of expansion. This method was also known as "mutual instruction" or the "Bell–Lancaster method" after the British educators Andrew Bell and Joseph Lancaster who both independently developed it. The method was based on the abler pupils being used as "helpers" to the teacher (so-called pupil-teachers), passing on the information they had learned to other students.

The 'monitorial system' which made such striking progress in England in the early part of the 19th century, received its foundational inspiration from village schools in south India. Dr. Andrew Bell, whose name is associated with the 'monitorial system', was an Army chaplin in India, and from 1789 to 1796 held the position of superintendent of the Male Orphan Asylum in Madras. It was in the course of his residence here that his attention was directed to the system of pupil teachers that obtained in the Madras Pial schools (run around temples), and which in essence was also the system in the Bengal Pathsalas.

Monitorial Systems
The Monitorial System was found very useful by 19th-century educators, as it proved to be a cheap way of making primary education more inclusive, thus making it possible to increase the average class size. Joseph Lancaster's motto for his method was Qui docet, discit – "He who teaches, learns." The methodology was adopted by the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales, and later by the National Schools System.

The Monitorial System, although widely spread and with many advocates, fell into disfavour with David Stow's "Glasgow System" which advocated trained teachers with higher goals than those of monitors.

The basic teaching and learning process used in the Monitorial System has been used in passing knowledge between people in many cultures because of its low cost to benefit ratio. Numerous institutions use the basic concept as their primary mode of instruction. There have been many observations regarding its efficacy, in 35AD in Rome, Seneca the Younger, in an epistle to his friend, Lucillus, noted: Docendo discimus – we learn by teaching.

Lancasterian System
Lancaster specified an ideal classroom (hall) as being a "parallelogram, the length about twice the width. The windows were to be six feet from the floor. The floor should be inclined, rising one foot in twenty from the master's desk to the upper end of the room, where the highest class is situated. The master's desk is on the middle of a platform two to three feet high, erected at the lower end of the room. Forms and desks, fixed firmly to the ground, occupy the middle of the room, a passage being left between the ends of the forms and the wall, five or six feet broad, where the children form semicircles for reading."

According to Gladman, to stimulate effort and reward merit, "Lancaster used Place Taking abundantly. He also had medals and badges of merit... Tickets could be earned too; these had a trifling pecuniary value." Prizes were given "to excess" ceremonially.

Frequent changes of routine aided discipline. A code of command and exact movements also reinforced discipline. Class lists and registers were kept.

Children were classified on a dual principle according to their ability in reading and arithmetic.

Lancaster described his system as to produce a "Christian Education" and "train children in the practice of such moral habits as are conducive to the welfare of society."

Madras System
Bell's "Madras System" was so named because it originated at the Military Male Orphan Asylum, Egmore, near Madras. Gladman describes Bell's system from notes taken from Bell's Manual which had been published by the National Society two years after Bell's death, in 1832. "After observing children in a native school, seated on the ground, and writing in the sand, he set a boy, John Frisken, to teach the alphabet on the same principle... Bell was consequently led to extend and elaborate the system."

Bell declared, "There is a faculty, inherent in the mind, of conveying and receiving mutual instruction". In 1796, John Frisken was 12 years and 8 months old. With assistants, he was in charge of 91 boys.

The school was arranged in forms or classes, each consisting of about 36 members of similar proficiency, as classified by reading ability.

The young teachers were kept to task through registers. Reading, ciphering and religious rehearsals were tracked through the paidometer register. Discipline was held through a 'Black Book', which had entries which were read to the entire school, and the faults were explained in moral terms.

The hall was built in rectangles, with windows five feet from the floor, but opening at the top. Desks were placed against walls, and the Master's desk was raised. "Fixing the master thus, deprived him of much of his power; he would do more good in passing from class to class, and teaching." critics said.

Comparison
Frederick John Gladman, writing in the 1880s, distinguishes between the Lancasterian system and the Madras System. The Lancasterian System is described as preferring smaller classes, unlike Bell's Madras System.

Despite the many similarities of the two systems, and the initial friendship of Lancaster and Bell, divisions appeared between their advocates. In 1805, Sarah Trimmer published a paper claiming Lancaster's system was antagonistic to the Anglican Church. It was said that the country was soon divided into two camps; speeches, sermons, magazine articles and pamphlets appeared on each side. The National Society was formed to propagate Bell's System and the British and Foreign School Society (B&FSS) was formed to propagate Lancaster's System.

There is one surviving Lancaster-designed British School in Hitchin, Hertfordshire—and this is now run as a museum with an experiential educational program suitable for Key Stage 1 and Key Stage 2 pupils.

title: Monitorial System


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Talk:Dirk Coster

Untitled
The original version of this article included the senatance "He was later disgraced after a torrid affair with a 35 year old society woman." It also includced several inaccurate statements (Giving Coster's nationality as British; stating that he was a chemist rather than a physiscist; saying that he lived in the 18th Cent rather than the late 19th and early 20th cents). I have not been able to verify this allegd fact, but I found no verifiabl sources other than those dealing solely with the discovery of Hafnium. This could be a fact, for all i can tell, but without a source it does not belong in the article.

Several basic facts are still needed. Coster's birth and death dates, and any information about his career aside from the discovery of element 72. DES (talk) 17:21, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

 * is an unreliable source. Coster obtained his PhD in Leiden, and then spent a few years in Lund with Siegbahn, and in Copenhagen with Bohr, and was then appointed in Groningen, in the Netherlands. We need a native speaker of Dutch to fix this up, since all the relevant info is in the Dutch biography JdH 09:10, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dirk Coster


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Always Got Tonight

Always Got Tonight is the eighth studio album by Chris Isaak. It was released in 2002 on WEA/Warner Bros. Records.

Track listing
All tracks composed by Chris Isaak; except where indicated
 * 1) "One Day"
 * 2) "Let Me Down Easy"
 * 3) "Worked It Out Wrong"
 * 4) "Courthouse"
 * 5) "Life Will Go On"
 * 6) "Always Got Tonight"
 * 7) "Cool Love" (Isaak, John Shanks)
 * 8) "Notice the Ring"
 * 9) "I See You Everywhere"
 * 10) "American Boy"
 * 11) "Somebody to Love"
 * 12) "Nothing to Say"

Personnel
with:
 * Chris Isaak - vocals, guitar
 * Hershel Yatovitz - guitar
 * Rowland Salley - bass
 * Kenney Dale Johnson - drums
 * Abraham Laboriel, Jamie Muhoberac, Jimmy Pugh, John Shanks, Lenny Castro, Matt Eakle, Patrick Warren, Paul Bushnell, Steve Ferrone - additional musicians
 * Millie Seeboth, Minnie Driver - backing vocals
 * Patrick Warren - string arrangement on "Cool Love"

title: Always Got Tonight


text:
Talk:Shemp Howard

Shemp's Actual Date of Birth, Location of Birth, Original Surname
I have a copy of Shemp's original birth certificate, State of New York, #12184. Shemp was born Samuel Hurvitz on March 11, 1895 at 39 Henry Street, Manhattan, NY. He was delivered by midwife Olga Donn of 59 Rivington Street. Don't know where you people get your information from.Brprivate (talk) 03:04, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * This is what's known on Wikipedia as Original Research WP:OR. It is not allowed.  There are dozens of Samuel Horwitz's and Samuel Hurvitz's, and the information you provide does not distinguish between them.  Since a wide variety of cited sources state that Shemp Howard was born on a different date and in Brooklyn, you must come up with an *acceptable* and *published* source in order to change this information.  Also, as to your last question, please see WP:CIV and remember that one of the primary guidelines on Wikipedia is to presume good faith. Monkeyzpop (talk) 19:45, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

I am at a loss to understand how a verifiable copy of Shemp Howard's birth certificate is somehow an unacceptable and unpublished source of his birth statistics/information - unless it is the wrong one, which is what you are apparently accusing me of using. It is the correct certificate, obtained from the president of the Three Stooges fan club. I cited the source with its certificate number which anyone can use to look it up independently within the vital statistics system in the State of New York. You also state that "a wide variety of cited sources state that Shemp Howard was born on a different date and in Brooklyn". These "sources" do not themselves cite their source, which considering my primary record citation are clearly hearsay. Additionally, your contention there are "dozens" of other Samuel Horwitz/Hurvitz's is unsubstantiated. Finally, I have a copy of the original in hand, wherein Samuel Hurvitz was born to Jennie and Solomon Hurvitz (both of the correct age corresponding to their years of birth), both born in Russia. There is also a little hand-written note in the lower left corner that states it is Shemp's birth certificate, noting the "Hurvitz" surname and the Manhattan address. What more do you want?Brprivate (talk) 20:41, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

In this case at least, it appears that Wikipedia supports hearsay over actual, verifiable facts - as long as a large number of sources cite the same incorrect information. Anyone wishing to correct the record with an actual verifiable source appears to be thwarted by consensus. I've seen two different dates for Shemp's birth on 10 different websites - none of which provide a source - yet when I state I have his birth certificate in hand with a slightly different date it is somehow the wrong one. Show me your birth certificate and I'll show you mine.Brprivate (talk) 21:11, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

 * Mr. Brprivate (it would be nice if you registered an account so that you could be addressed directly, but here is fine if you insist): First, you are, I believe, now in violation of WP:3RR and subject to blocking.  Second, I do not care one little bit what Shemp Howard's birth date or birth name is, insofar as having an ax to grind about which fact is correct.  Your edits, while laudable for the original research behind them, do not conform to WP standards.  The standard is published citation.  There are lesser standards, but the primary standard is "What has been published in a reputable resource?"  The information you provided earlier (date, city, surname, midwife, etc.) did not IN ITSELF distinguish between Samuel Horwitz (as his family name was spelled in several census records and in the autobiography of his brother) and the several other Samuel Horwitz's and Samuel Hurvitz's born in the state of New York at about the same time.  Therefore, BASED ON THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED EARLIER, it cannot be used as prima facie evidence that it is THE Samuel Horwitz/Hurvitz discussed in this article.  Subsequent evidence you provided suggests that it is, but still leaves two major obstacles:  it is Original Research insofar as it contradicts PUBLISHED evidence in reliable sources (one must consider the subject's own brother's autobiography to be fairly reliable about the family's last name, for example), and the fact that the spelling "Hurvitz" contradicts MANY other family records both published and unpublished.  Until these obstacles are overcome, we cannot simply take one unpublished document, originally researched, and use it to contradict a comparative mountain of published and cited material, EVEN IF THAT MATERIAL IS "HEARSAY."  That's not the way Wikipedia works.  There is a reasonable means of getting the information you wish published on WP to be included, but you have not achieved that yet.  If you do, WP editors such as myself will champion your edits.  Until then, we are forced to abide by WP guidelines (one of which, I remind you again, is to presume good faith). Monkeyzpop (talk) 01:50, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

It appears that no matter the facts, Wikipedia appears hell-bent on enforcing a standard which stifles accuracy in favor of “evidence” based on published content, whether or not this published content has any basis in reality. I can assure you that family lore – especially that of public figures/movie stars – is highly subject to error and revision (sometimes outright fraud), generally depending on how many generations it has passed through. As such, unless someone has actually undertaken the job to check into the matter, any inaccuracies will forever linger, rendering an accurate accounting impossible if held to the standards by which Wikipedia operates. For example, after investigating my own family history and carefully documenting the results, I found a very large published history for one branch, which I was very happy to locate - until I looked into the line where our branches met. It was absolutely incorrect, which I was absolutely certain of because I had carefully documented the source records (all relatively easily obtained). I found the reason for the inaccuracy was due to a submission by a cousin who used oral tradition and memory (and probably a little guesswork) rather than publicly available primary source information. There is an old saw in genealogy circles: “Genealogy without documentation is mythology” and this certainly applied. When I called the publisher to submit my corrections, he stated that he would gladly take my submission for the record but no corrections would be made, as he did not intend to publish any more volumes (too expensive, too much work, etc.). So for the last 50 years, people have been citing a source that has the authority of being published but lacks credibility. Indeed it is positively misleading. Its publishers should be dismissed for accepting such information, as it completely compromises the integrity of the genealogy not only from that point on, but in a more general manner, for its standards cannot then be trusted. If Wikipedia’s standard is “published citation” in a “reputable resource”, then the problem becomes “what is a reputable resource”? In my case, are the books (and websites) published on the Stooges credible as regards genealogical information? Without citing primary documents, the answer is a resounding “no”, regardless of the author’s family connections, if any. As my “original research” proves, not one person who has published anything on the Stooges appears to have looked into the matter of obtaining Shemp’s birth certificate! I haven’t read Moe’s autobiography, but unless he had a photographic memory, I’m willing to bet he got many of the details wrong. The possibilities for inaccuracy are endless (parents lie to their children for many reasons…)

This whole thing started because I found a 1900 census record that has Moe’s family living in Manhattan rather than Bensonhurst as claimed in all the literature; I found this curious since it is now so easily checked. In addition, I found that Moe’s month and year of birth were different on the census than in the known record as well. While census records are notoriously inaccurate, it was accurate as to Shemp’s birth dates, leading me to believe there is an issue with Moe’s actual date of birth as well as the birth-in-Bensonhurst claim. Wouldn’t it be interesting if Moe didn’t know his correct birthday?

In the case of the Stooge websites and (some of the) published materials, it appears people repeated what they were told and then published the results, to unknown standards. Others then cite these results to bolster their own arguments, but how worthy are they to be cited? If not held to a high standard, they are essentially worthless. I’m sorry, but repeating the same falsehoods over and over doesn’t make them any truer; they are worthless as a “published citation”, the Wikipedia standard. And so Wikipedia carries on with this worthless information, which renders much of Wikipedia worthless. You state that “there is a reasonable means of getting the information you wish published on WP to be included, but you have not achieved that yet. If you do, WP editors such as myself will champion your edits”. Excuse me for being thickheaded, but I cannot see how this can be done without amending the cited, published material and/or breaking the Wikipedia edict of “no original research”. Any help in this matter would be most appreciated.

All I wanted to do was make people aware of an error in the date of birth of a beloved public figure; maybe uncover a few more inaccuracies somewhere down the line. While Wikipedia provides a wonderful way in which to look into the matter, it appears Wikipedia might work to keep the facts of the matter from ever seeing the light of day. I will defer to your edit and hope a way can be found to publish accurate information.Brprivate (talk) 05:38, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I realize it can be frustrating to have first-hand knowledge or evidence of something and not be able to use it in Wikipedia. I have found myself in precisely the same situation on occasion.  But that is how Wikipedia operates, and as a general rule, there is nothing to be gained by arguing that you don't like the rules of the particular game you want to play.  We all either abide by those rules or don't play here.  If it is of any help, here are some of the specific rules of this venue:  "Wikipedia articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources....Material based purely on primary sources should be avoided. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors." (WP:RS).  "If you discover something new, Wikipedia is not the place to premiere such a discovery." (WP:OR)  "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true." (WP:V)  I suggest you read some of the linked articles in full, as they will elaborate usefully on these points.  But in any event, these are the rules of the game here, and must be adhered to or risk deletion or re-writing by other editors.  Thanks. Monkeyzpop (talk) 07:06, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

I've changed Shemp's entry back to the way it was until I can get some confirmation and then contact some published sources with the evidence. Brprivate (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:30, 3 October 2011 (UTC).

Someone mentioned the president of The Three Stooges Fan Club. This organization must publish a newsletter or something. Or, a member might have researched and written an article on this subject.

If so, this will be an independent, checkable source, not OR. It can be referred to as a source for information in the article. Also, it will likely be quite accurate, as fans tend to do lots of work on their favorite subject, just for the fun of it. 2A00:23C7:E287:1901:4110:57A2:1329:4F12 (talk) 12:33, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Requested move
Shemp's birthdate is ACTUALLY March 17th. The date you show is from record of the death certificate which was in error. Shemp was born on Saint Patrick's day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fugcheese (talk • contribs) 17:38, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Move in order to replace nickname with proper name

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~

 * Support. Use his proper name. – AxSkov ( ☏ ) 06:59, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Support -Ethan0 19:05, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose He is far more known under the name Shemp.144.126.161.43 15:06, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

This article has been renamed after the result of a move request. Dragons flight 07:18, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Question
If we're going to call him by his real first name why not call him by his real last name?144.126.161.43 15:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Hair
Does anyone know what type of hair Shemp has?

Evereything is Relative
Quote "Shemp used his somewhat homely appearance for comic effect, often mugging grotesquely or allowing his hair to fall in disarray. He even played along with a publicity stunt that named him 'he Ugliest Man in Hollywood."

 * It seems to me that many of his Stooges roles were as the romantic figure. If a Stooge was involved with a woman, it was usually Shemp.  Maybe it's because of his independent career in Hollywood.  Two different worlds, where the ugliest man in one is the dream-boy in the other?WHPratt (talk) 17:57, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Shempport.jpeg
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Objection
Anyone object to changing it to Barney Fag instead of Frank? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.54.4 (talk) 03:44, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

shemp ambulance or firetruck
Has anyone ever seen or heard of a hand drawn picture of an ambulance or firetruck drawn and signed and initialed by shemp. I have not been able to find anything. It was said that it may have been a concept vehicle for one of the movies. please if anyone knows let me know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayapple32 123 (talk • contribs) 02:55, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Son or daughter?
The article states that he had a son, Morton; and a few lines underneath it it states that his biography was writen by his "daughter and son-in-law". Was it a son or a daughter? If this means daughter-in-law and son-in-law, to whom was the son-in-law married? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.55.59.207 (talk) 03:16, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

succeumed?
"Curly succeumed to the series on January 18, 1952 at 48"

wtf?71.164.103.93 (talk) 21:46, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Military Service
He was in the service during World War One. Worth a mention?2A00:23C7:E287:1901:1899:599E:6842:863 (talk) 12:40, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Shemp Howard


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vapid

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Nufy8 18:15, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Vapid
Already at Wiktionary. KeithD (talk) 17:21, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per ref. DV8 2XL 17:37, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete already at Wikt: and I don't think this can be expanded beyond a dicdef. Could be wrong though....-Splash 01:15, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete dicdef and I can't see any expansion either, but am willing to be proved wrong Cje 12:59, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vapid


text:
Penlan

Penlan is a suburban area of Swansea, Wales in the Penderry ward. The area is set on top of a hill, which overlooks Townhill, Kilvey Hill and Swansea Bay.

Leisure
Local amenities include the Penlan leisure centre, which incorporates a swimming pool and sports hall, and the Penlan Library..

Transport
The headquarters of the main public transport company serving South West Wales, First Cymru, is also located here.

Education and religion
Penlan is home to Ysgol Gyfun Gymraeg Bryn Tawe, a Welsh-medium secondary school. There's two Primary School which is Clwyd Community Primary and Afryn. The area is served by two churches. Penlan Methodist Church, in existence for fifty years, and Cornerstone Church, a thriving evangelical church which was established in 1991.

The hymn tune ‘Penlan’ was written in 1890 by the composer David Jenkins (1848-1915) and is frequently sung to the words ‘In heavenly love abiding’.

Housing
Penlan is a Communities First area.

title: Penlan


text:
Penllergaer

Penllergaer (Penlle'r-gaer) is a village and community in the City and County of Swansea, Wales. It lies to the east of Gorseinon, within the electoral ward of the same name. It is situated about 4.5 miles north west of Swansea city centre, near junction 47 of the M4 motorway. The population of the community and ward was 2,868 in 2011.

Penllergaer Woods and Penllergare
Penllergaer Woods, on the edge of the Parc Penllergaer housing development, once formed part of John Dillwyn Llewelyn's Penllergare estate and surrounded his mansion house. The first photographs of the Moon were taken at Dillwyn Llewelyn's observatory, which still stands.

The Penllergare Trust is small charity that supports the upkeep of the estate. It is active in gardening, conservation and maintenance, and operates a coffee shop on the grounds.

During World War II, the estate was purchased by the missionary Rees Howells and the mansion was offered as a residence to the exiled Emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia.

Education
Penllergaer Primary School was built in 1881. It moved to its present site on Pontardulais Road in 1976.

Religion
Penllergaer has a Church in Wales church named St David's, located on Swansea Road. The vicarage is in Pontlliw.

Services
Penllergaer has a regular bus service to Morriston, Swansea and Gorseinon. Penllergar also has a post office, a village shop and a park.

Local government
Penllergaer is administered by the City and County of Swansea Council and an elected member for Penllergaer sits on the County Council.

Penllergaer has its own elected Community Council.

Sport
Penllergaer has its own rugby and football teams. In 2022 the football team played in Division 2 of the Carmarthenshire League, but as of October 2023 appears to be inactive in the league.

Neighbouring places
The nearby places are Garden Village, Gorseinon, Fforestfach, Llangyfelach, Grovesend, Pontlliw and Felindre.

title: Penllergaer


text:
Chris Walas

Christopher James Walas (born 1955) is an American special effects artist, make-up effects artist, film director, producer, and screenwriter. He is best known for his work on the film The Fly (1986), for which he won an Academy Award and was nominated for two British Academy Film Awards.

Biography
His main body of work is with special effects in a wide variety of films, from science fiction to action-adventure. His work on The Fly led to his directorial debut on The Fly II. He also won an Academy Award for Special Effects Make-up on The Fly and is well known for his creation of the Gremlins. Walas was also partially responsible for creating the famous sequence in Raiders of the Lost Ark when the Nazis melt from the intense heat created by the Ark of the Covenant. Walas created false heads for Ronald Lacey, Wolf Kahler, and Paul Freeman.

title: Chris Walas


text:
Guy Whittingham

Guy Whittingham (born 10 November 1964) is an English football manager and former professional footballer.

As a player, he was a striker from 1988 until 2005, notably in the Premier League for Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday. Having started his career with non-league Yeovil Town he went on to play in the Football League for Portsmouth, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Watford, Peterborough United, Oxford United and Wycombe Wanderers. He amassed over 450 appearances throughout his career.

Following retirement, he became manager of non-League side Newport (IOW) before managing AFC Newbury. He was caretaker manager of Portsmouth from November 2012 until April 2013 when he took the role on a permanent basis before being sacked in November 2013. He later had a spell as assistant manager of Crawley Town.

Playing career
Born in Evesham, after leaving the British Army, he joined Waterlooville for the start of the 1987–88 season where, after two games for the reserves, he was quickly promoted to the first team and became the club's top goalscorer in the 1987–88 season. One of his goals came in the first round proper of the F.A.Cup against Aylesbury United. He then spent a season at Yeovil Town before, in the summer of 1989, he was signed by Portsmouth, where he then spent the majority of his career, scoring 99 times in 173 league appearances, including Pompey's former record of 42 league goals in the 1992–93 season (48 in all competitions) as the club missed out on automatic promotion to the Premier League on goals scored. He was known while at Fratton Park as "Corporal Punishment". In 1993 he signed for Aston Villa in the Premier League. He had a good run in the team and scored important goals against Everton, Arsenal and Sheffield United, before leaving on loan in February 1994 to join Wolverhampton Wanderers; this meant he missed out on Villa's victory in the 1994 Football League Cup final. He scored eight goals in 13 Division One appearances for Wolves, although it wasn't enough for the Molineux side to reach the playoffs. While he was at Wolves, manager Graham Turner was replaced by Graham Taylor, who decided against making Whittingham's move permanent.

In December 1994 he joined Sheffield Wednesday, proving to be very popular at the Owls. Whilst at Wednesday he had a second loan spell at Wolves, as well as being loaned to Watford and Portsmouth, finally returning to Fratton Park on a permanent basis in 1999. At Portsmouth during his loan spell his seven goals in nine matches helped the club avoid relegation to the third tier.

In the 2000–01 season, his last as a professional, he scored for three clubs, notching for Peterborough United (against Oldham Athletic), Oxford United (against Swindon Town) and Wycombe Wanderers (against Bristol City). He also featured in Wycombe's FA Cup semi-final against Liverpool. This was the second time that Whittingham had been denied in an FA Cup semi-final by the Merseyside team, having lost in a penalty shootout to Liverpool whilst at Portsmouth in 1992.

Managerial and coaching career
Whittingham later went on to become player-manager of Newport (IOW), but left them in May 2005 when the club ran into financial difficulties. He returned to management at AFC Newbury but when that club suffered financial difficulties and the loss of their ground, Whittingham left in June 2006. In August 2006 he took up a coaching role at Eastleigh. In January 2009, he joined the Portsmouth first-team coaching staff as development coach.

He was named joint caretaker manager of Portsmouth together with Stuart Gray on 14 October 2011, when Steve Cotterill left to become manager of Nottingham Forest. The next day the pair won their first game in charge against Barnsley 2–0 at Fratton Park.

Whittingham once again became caretaker manager of the south coast club following Michael Appleton leaving to take the vacant position at Blackpool, and stayed as caretaker until the club exited administration in April 2013, with his full-time appointing imminent. On 25 November 2013, Whittingham was relieved from his duties following a meeting with the Portsmouth board. The 2–1 loss to Southend proved to be his last game in charge on the south coast.

Whittingham was appointed first team coach at Crawley on Friday 13 December 2013. Whittingham left the club in April 2014 when it was "mutually agreed" that his contract would not be renewed.

Whittingham joined the FA as a coach educator on 1 August 2014.

Honours
Individual
 * PFA Team of the Year: 1992–93 First Division

title: Guy Whittingham


text:
Luca Gaurico

Luca Gaurico (in Latin, Lucas Gauricus) (Giffoni March 12, 1475 – March 6, 1558, in Rome) was an Italian astrologer, astronomer, astrological data collector, and mathematician. He was born to a poor family in the Kingdom of Naples, and studied judicial astrology, a subject he defended in his Oratio de Inventoribus et Astrologiae Laudibus (1508). Judicial astrology concerned the fate of man (astrologia judiciaria; mundane astrology) as influenced by the stars. His most famous work is the Tractatus Astrologicus. Later in life he was named a bishop of the Catholic Church.

Career as astrologer
Gaurico's reputation was such that he served as an "astrological consultant" to Catherine de' Medici. Gaurico had predicted the accession to the papacy of Catherine's great-uncle Giovanni de Medici (when he was 14 – who later became Leo X) and predicted Catherine's uncle Giulio de Medici involvement in important political struggles and numerous descendants. Giulio de Medici later was to become Pope Clement VII, who involved with disputes with both Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor and Henry VIII of England.

Giovanni II Bentivoglio, ruler of Bologna, consulted him about his destiny. Displeased with Gaurico's prophecy, Bentivoglio subjected Gaurico to the torture of mancuerda, the effects of which he suffered for the rest of his life, and exiled the astrologer. When Bologna fell to Pope Julius II, Gaurico returned to general favor.

Gaurico became famous after predicting the ascension of Alessandro Farnese, a prediction that came true with Farnese's ascension as Paul III. Gaurico foretold also the sickness and death of this Pontiff, who died on November 20, 1549, the day said to have been indicated by Gaurico. Paul III obviously did not wait for his death in order to verify Gaurico's prediction. Paul III, who encouraged astrologers to come to Rome and work under his protection, made Gaurico his unofficial astrologer, and he was made a Papal Table Companion, knighted, and appointed bishop of Giffoni (Salerno province), and thus described as Episcopus Geophonensis, in 1539. Paul III made Gaurico bishop of Civitate (San Severo), in Capitanata, in southern Italy, in 1545. Four years after the death of Paul III, Gaurico abandoned these duties and settled in Rome.

The Tractatus Astrologicus contained the natal charts of popes and cardinals, kings and nobles, scholars, musicians and artists. Gaurico systematically examined each natal chart, compared it to the life of the person in question, and in the case of living subjects, predicted the outcome of their lives and careers. Gaurico also attempted to calculate the exact date of Jesus' crucifixion, and the number of hours between it and the resurrection. Allegedly, both he and Nostradamus were responsible for predicting the death of Henry II of France in a tournament in 1559.

Allegedly, Catherine de' Medici had wished to know Henry's destiny as the Apparent Heir of France. Allegedly, Gaurico replied that the Heir would exert his royal power, which would first marked by a duel, and finally by another duel that would put a stop to his reign and his life. Allegedly, he also explained in detail the kind of wound that would result in the death of Henry II during this duel.

Allegedly, the danger of this duel was considered impossible because of the social condition of the Prince, and Gaurico was not believed. Allegedly, Gaurico insisted on his statements, printed in France in 1552, that is, seven years before the well-known joust in which Henry II would find his death. He is also said to have sent a letter to the King repeating with full details his prediction and advising him to avoid any single combat in closed field, especially around the time when he had reached 41 years of age, since a wound on his head, at this age, could produce his blindness or his death. Allegedly, the letter did not deter Henry.

On July 1, 1559, during a match to celebrate the Peace Treaty of Cateau-Cambrésis with his longtime enemies, the Habsburgs of Austria and to celebrate the marriage of his daughter Elizabeth of Valois to King Philip II of Spain, during the final joust, King Henry's eye was pierced by a sliver that penetrated the brain, from the shattered lance of Gabriel Montgomery, captain of the King's Scottish Guard. He suffered terribly, and, despite the efforts of royal surgeon Ambroise Paré, died on July 10, 1559, and was buried in a cadaver tomb in Saint Denis Basilica.

In fact, the one known horoscope of Henri II by Gaurico is literally quoted in the Dictionnaire of Pierre Bayle. There is no question of a duel. Gaurico promises the best successes to Henri II and adds that he shall live up to the age of 69 year, 10 month and 12 days, provided that he passes the years 56, 63 and 64 of his age.

In regard to the birth of Martin Luther, Gaurico found a connection between this date (November 10, 1483, according to the reckoning of the Gregorian Calendar) and a "grand conjunction," that is, a meeting of the planets Jupiter and Saturn. Grand conjunctions were meant to predict extensive changes in the secular and religious power structures. Because the “grand conjunction” of 1484 took place in the sign of Scorpio, an astrological sign that stood for radical, revolutionary events as well as for epidemics and widespread death, this indicated to Gaurico that dramatic changes would occur in all social spheres –such as would result from the Reformation.

Gaurico has been identified by the historian Paola Zambelli as the author of an anonymous 1512 pamphlet that predicted a universal deluge to take place in 1524 as a result of a conjunction of the superior planets in the watery sign of Pisces.

Astrology and buildings

Gaurico was widely renowned as an astrologer, and his Tractatus Astrologicus (1552) also contained charts of the foundation of various buildings and cities. Pope Paul III thus used Gaurico to determine the most auspicious time at which the cornerstone of a new building in the neighborhood of St Peter's Basilica should be laid. It is said that Gaurico arrived at the scene in great pomp. An assistant, the astrologer Vincentius Campanatius of Bologna, was commanded to inspect the sky with an astrolabe and cry out in a loud voice the best time when the moment to lay the first marble slab arrived.

Legacy
Gaurico ran a school of astrology at Ferrara. One of his pupils was Julius Caesar Scaliger. As a scholar, Gaurico edited George of Trebizon's translation of Ptolemy's Almagest, a work Gaurico dedicated to Pope Nicholas V, who had commissioned the work. Gaurico theorized that Ptolemy was a native of Pelusium.

The lunar crater Gauricus is named after him.

title: Luca Gaurico


text:
Talk:Renewable Energy Certificate (United States)

Backwards summary?
2013-06-28 the summary includes:
 * Therefore REC purchase does not affect how much renewable energy was actually generated - only how it was distributed.

But is this backwards? The REC surely does not affect how it was distributed, but it does, ultimately, ensure that there is as much generation as there are RECs purchased. Might we change this line to:
 * Therefore REC purchase does not affect how the renewable energy is distributed - only that it was actually generated.

Given how much people like to argue about this, it seemed better to get another opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kipb9 (talk • contribs) 23:53, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

My opinion is that RECs are about distributed energy, not generated. If you generate a lot of energy, but use all of it, nothing is fed into the grid. You do not earn RECs, because no one else can withdraw your green energy from the grid. On the other hand, if you inject all your generated energy, consumers can claim to have withdrawn it by purchasing RECs.

In any case there is an inconsistency between the first sentence:
 * [...] represent proof that 1 megawatt-hour (MWh) of electricity was generated [...]

and the last:
 * [...] does not affect how much renewable energy was actually generated [...]

--Psyantyst (talk) 15:54, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Proof of displaced pollution
Hey, Kerberos... can we talk about what you just deleted? Here are the paragraphs:

Kerberos deleted: "Here is a simple explanation of how a green tag works. An electricity provider like a wind farm is credited with green tags for every 1000kWhs of electricity it produces. (A pure coal power plant would produce roughly 1 tonne of CO2 while creating a comparable amount of energy.) A certifying agency gives each green tag an ID number and makes sure it doesn't get double-counted. Then the wind farm sells the green tag on the open market."
 * I would like to add this back in. What is the problem with this paragraph? Scott Teresi 05:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That paragraph's fine, but it repeats from the preceding paragraph. --Kerberos 16:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Kerberos deleted: "In this example, since the CO2 pollution produced by the coal power plant is not directly taxed, how does buying a green tag reduce CO2? The 1000kWhs of power that the renewable plant produced is mandated to be bought by the coal plant (or whatever power company serves the area) at the market price. In effect, the coal plant has to then cut its output by a corresponding 1000kWhs. By buying a green tag, you've just financed a reduction of 1000kWhs in polluting energy and shifted the demand for energy from a traditional power plant to a green power plant."
 * A majority of electricity is propduced buy pollution-causing generators. What's wrong with this example? It states that we're comparing to a 100% coal mix. We could add that this is not typical, but that's shown in the next paragraph Scott Teresi 05:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's confusing and inaccurate. Coal plants (for example) don't by renewable power, nor do they necessarily reduce their output because renewable power is fed into the grid. (Particularly coal plants, since they provide steady base load power; the most likely displaced fossil fuel is peak load providing natural gas; if there's hydro on the system, that's the most likely to be displaced.) Mainly, however, green tags are only a token of the renewable energy. If the energy goes into the grid, it's because it goes into the grid, not because the green tags are sold later. --Kerberos 16:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your feedback, Kerberos. I'll see if I can improve the article, with the point in mind that green energy has a much smaller chance of replacing coal energy than hydro energy, for instance (I'm going to check some sources for some feedback on that). However, I think your following point is too extreme: "If the energy goes into the grid, it's because it goes into the grid, not because the green tags are sold later." Where does the money go when a green generator sells green tags? It no doubt increases the owner's salary, but it probably also goes into further investment into the plant for future expansion or for loan guarantees. Green tag income would also be counted on in the business plans of other people who want to start up a green energy plant. From a macro perspective, how can you not say that income from green tags does not increase the viability of green energy production? -- Scott Teresi 06:09, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that is true. Green tags increase the economic viability of green energy production. Conveniently for producers of less valuable green energy, such as wind power, green tags are not tied to actual displacement of other sources or actual reduction of their emissions.

Kerberos deleted: "You can estimate the amount of CO2 saved by buying one green tag by looking at the energy mix in the typical electricity supply. A green tag could offset 1 tonne of CO2 if it were to finance the offset of about 1000kWh from a pure coal power plant. However, nationally, the electrical grid in the U.S. is made up of about 50% coal power plants, 17% natural gas, 19% nuclear, and the rest hydroelectric. As a rough calculation, it would take 1648 kWh of grid electricity to create 1 tonne CO2, so you would have to buy roughly 1.648 green tags to offset one tonne of CO2 in the U.S. If, however, you are paying for green tags which offset coal plants more directly than other forms of energy, your effect would be greater."
 * I think you've gone overboard here! Scott Teresi 05:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Again, coal (or nuclear) is the least likely to be displaced and hydro the most. Further, it's sloppy language to say "a green tag could offset ...," since, again, it is just a token. --Kerberos 16:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Kerberos added: "Critics point out, however, the flaw in this system in that it does not require any proof of displaced polluting power."
 * I don't understand this criticism exactly... yes, a green tag doesn't mean that any exact amount of CO2 is displaced. All it means is that 1MWh of green electricity has been produced. Why does this mean the following paragraphs must be removed? If you produce 1MWh of clean energy, where is it going to go?? Scott Teresi 05:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The point is what is displaced, not what is produced, was mentioned in the next sentence. --Kerberos 16:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Kerberos added: "But since some renewable energy sources, most notable wind power, are intermittent and variable, their production does not displace an equivalent amount of other sources, diminishing the effective value of the green tags."
 * Are you saying that 1MWh of wind energy does not displace 1MWh of traditional energy? Why not? Where does the 1MWh go then? Can't coal power plants be turned down when the wind energy is being generated? Scott Teresi 05:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No, coal plants can not be turned down. They take many hours to get going. Only fast-reacting peak load providers would change their output to balance the fluctuations of wind power. But, like the difference between driving stop-and-go in the city and driving steadily on the highway, that frequent ramping and especially turning on and off is less efficient (burns more fuel) and cancels some, if not all, of the benefit. Nobody has ever shown a reduction of other fuel use because of wind power on the grid. Thus green tags for wind power at least do not translate to less pollution or carbon emissions. --Kerberos 16:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * That's equivalent to claiming that turning off your lights at random does not reduce fuel use on the grid. You're repeating an un-sourced Internet meme that has cropped up from people who oppose wind power for other reasons (usually aesthetic). See for example the UKERC Intermittency Report which says "CO2 emission reductions from renewable energy are not significantly affected by its intermittency." When the grid penetration of wind power exceeds 20% then there are additional costs for load balancing, but these do not affect the carbon dioxide reduction. Also note that on large power grids there are many separate generators, and grid operators have always had to adjust production for constantly varying load. If there are many generators, a few can be individually shut down or restarted as necessary, to allow the rest to maintain steady production and thus no loss of efficiency. In particular, grids that have some dispatchable hydroelectric generators can use them to balance their uncontrollably variable renewable generators such as wind and solar. Hydroelectric plants can vary their output anywhere between zero to maximum in a few minutes with very little loss of efficiency. Smart grids provide an additional mechanism for shifting demand peaks to follow peaks in supply, further reducing the need to fire up expensive backup generators (e.g., gas turbine plant). See: U.S. Electrical Grid Undergoes Massive Transition to Connect to Renewables. And researchers at the University of Kassel were able to follow the actual demand curve in Germany (scaled down by a large factor for the pilot test) around the clock with a combined power plant consisting of wind farms, solar arrays, pumped hydro storage, and turbines burning biogas. A power grid supplied with 100% renewable energy will certainly burn less (i.e. zero) coal. --Teratornis (talk) 20:59, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Costs
What makes nuclear and fossil fuel cheaper than solar and wind power? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.113.104.47 (talk • contribs) 11:24, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The fossil fuel industry is entrenched and has a lot of susidies I believe (at least petroleum does). Nuclear power also receives a lot of subsidies. Also, their full cost isn't figured into their price. The cost of using an energy source which pollutes the atmosphere is cheap now, but must be paid for later. Should this be made clearer in the opening paragraphs of the article? -- Scott Teresi 16:59, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * They are also tremendously concentrated sources of fuel whose generation of electricity can be pretty well relied upon, although Scott's answer is also quite correct. Kerberos 01:42, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

details please
Could you explain the process better? When you pay a green tag does the person you pay it to pay your non-renewable energy bill and then put some green energy on their grid? When you audit your energy usage and buy green tags do you add transmission costs to it? I know the actual electrons are unlikely to make it to your location, but if you are paying a wind farm somewhere in Kansas it may be that it's output has to travel far to reach it's destination and maybe those losses should be understood and added to the green tags needed. Everytime I read about green tags all I see is flowery language without the hard questions answered. Even when I've looked at a green tag producer's page I could not find the details. It resembled dot com maarketing hype. Don't misinterpret my attitude. I'm all for it but I want be able to answer the critics if take up the cause. BillK --leavingthegrid.blogspot.com

 * Sometimes the green tags are bundled with the energy, and the utility buys both, usually to fulfill its renewable portfolio obligations. They can not be resold. But when individuals and companies buy green tags, it is separate from the energy, which would have been sold "alone" -- that is, unless you're directly paying your utility for green energy, you're still buying the same amount of nongreen energy along with your green tags. The sale of green tags spearate from the energy certainly helps the income stream of the green energy producer (not to mention the green tag brokers that are popping up like fungi), and thus may have some effect of helping to enable the production of green energy, but it doesn't affect the actual production of that energy or its contribution to the grid at all. A pretty clear description can be found at http://www.nativeenergy.com/comparison.html, showing that with or without green tags the green energy entering the grid and the nongreen energy used by the purchaser is the same. You are quite right to be skeptical, especially as company after company announces they've "gone green" by just buying those tags. --Kerberos 22:10, 22 April 2006 (UTC):

 * This is as I feared. I was a memeber of something like this for roughly 2 years.  It is called http://www.ncgreenpower.org  I didn't know this was green tags.

I contributed money for 3 blocks of green energy at $4 per block per month. When I met them at their booth at a local enviro festival I learned from one of their booth workers that they did not actually have the renewable inputs yet, but that my "donations" (rougly $288 ) went into an escrow. I am even more dubious about this scheme. Needless to say I quit buying green power blocks. Bill Knighton - leavingthegrid.blogspot.com

Link to critical page
The page in the links section "the wooly world of green tags" attempts to show that Green Tags are a charade, whose only benefit is to enrich the organization selling them. I think it's healthy to have views from both sides, and wouldn't advocate removing this link, but it would nice if the aricle more clearly responded to this line of (flawed) argument. The criticism in this link in entirely baseless, because it ignores the fact that being able to sell Green Tags is what makes the renewable energy production possible. If it costs you $1 to produce a unit of energy renewably, and the market price for that energy is 50c, then the only way to ensure that energy gets produced is to sell 50c worth of Green Tags (or similar). Buyers of those Green Tags are not some suckers who's been tricked into handing over money for nothing, they are collectively ensuring that the renewable energy will be produced. Their 50c has the net effect that 1 unit of non-renewable energy is replaced by 1 unit of renewables. Arguing (as this critic does) that the wind turbine would still be spinning regardless of whether you bought a Green Tag is like arguing that your local McDonald's would still be making Cheeseburgers even if you didn't buy them -- true in a narrow sense, but misleading in its implications. If nobody buys Cheeseburgers, they will eventually stop being produced. If no-one buys Green Tags, or otherwise subsidizes renewable energy production, it will also stop being produced, because the market price is not sufficient to cover the costs of production. --spiralhighway 19:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

 * So if McDonald's sells "cheeseburger credits," can someone who buys one of those credits say they bought a cheeseburger? It's one thing to say you support cheeseburgers by buying the credits, but quite wrong to say that you consume cheeseburgers when you don't. The "woolly world" writer also has a parody: "grocers greens tags". Kerberos 22:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe a better way to think of Green Tags is to say that by buying one I am willing to pay a higher price for that unit of renewable energy (because I am effectively subsidising the renewable energy company). And by making non-renewable energy companies purchase them, it is effectively making them pay closer to the true cost of producing that unit of energy. 203.117.184.66 15:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC) Jamie A.

I agree with Kerberos that it is wrong to say you consume cheeseburgers when you don't. But it you had a federal law behind you that says you can legally claim credit for buying cheeseburgers because you purchased this credit from another diner, it would not be wrong at all. Buying RECs has the backing of federal law, so by the way today I bought a million watthours of wind energy. Also by the way, I have to think of the unsigned blog you referenced as an unsourced statement and I am about to attach a template to this effect. Marc W. Abel 20:57, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The test of RECs is what happens if everybody tries to buy them. Since a properly regulated REC market can only supply RECs by generating renewable electricity, and RECs cannot be double-sold, then a massive increase in demand for RECs would exceed their (currently limited) supply, driving up their price, thus making renewable electricity more profitable for companies supplying it. Utilities would respond by building more renewable plant to supply the demand for RECs. If everybody continued to demand RECs to cover all their electricity use, ultimately the result would be that no more non-renewable electricity would be generated - that would be the only way to provide enough RECs to go around. Thus RECs are far less "woolly" than some of the carbon offset schemes one reads about, which may or many not result in real tonnes of emission reduction. Also note that de-regulated utilities routinely allow individual suppliers of electricity and natural gas to compete for customers, even though every customer physically consumes the same mix of grid electricity or the mix from the gas distribution network. Individual suppliers are able to compete directly for customers even when distribution is physically shared as long as a reliable method exists to account for the production of each supplier and the stated desires of individual consumers to purchase from particular suppliers. --Teratornis (talk) 21:11, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I came here after signing up to pay Arcadia Power for certificates and then researching and finding this. It seems in the comments the author (critical of RECs) concedes that he's painting too broad a brush, and it would be good for this article to describe the nuance. II  | (t - c) 06:52, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, "it would be good for this article to describe the nuance." I concur! One frequent question is: does the REC and SREC process result in MORE renewable energy going into the common power grid than RPS requires, or is it all moot?  If so, why would anyone pay MORE for renewable electricity?  However, in a growing number of markets, the cost fo rrenewable energy is lower than the utilities have been charging customers.  Thus, the customers of renewable energy are providing the common power grid with cleaner, greener power AND paying less for it because the renewable energy is actually cheaper than the default 'dirty' electricity from burning fossil fuels, such as oil and coal.MaynardClark (talk) 07:16, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Should we make Renewable Energy Certificates the article title?
I think Renewable Energy Certificates should be the primary title of the article rather than Green Tags. Renewable Energy Certificate is the preferred term used to describe them these days. Green-e, the main certifier calls them RECs, the new California laws use the term RECs, the Department of Energy uses the term RECs, the primary supplier, and the traders use the term RECs as well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.224.183 (talk) 05:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

I agree we should change to this title. Marc W. Abel 20:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

 * No more discussions since 2007...And this is still tagged for discussion? See: http://greenpower.energy.gov/markets/ and merge Green Tags into the RECs one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.218.109.139 (talk) 22:34, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Can you please state at the beginning of the article which country this whole article refers to? Thanks. - Laustro 13:05, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I haven't read the whole thing, and I'm not sure but it should be a general article about the concept, and it should be made into a summary-style article so that it gives summaries of Green certificates and Green tags also. —Pengo 09:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

In my experience marketing these products, there is great confusion when RECs are called green credits or green certificates due the primary national certifier of REC being Green-e. Not all RECs may be Green-e certified. Not all RECs are "Green" according to the EPA or DOE. I have traded RECs certified by various jurisdictions (all US-based) that were sourced from MSW combustion, waste coal combustion, and non-low impact hydro. These broader REC categories preclude the more restrictive term of "green" being applied to all such products. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.240.86.62 (talk) 19:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Compliance vs. Voluntary REC markets?
It would be useful to have an explanation of the two separate sources of demand for RECs-- namely the compliance market created by state Renewable Portfolio Standards and the voluntary purchase of RECs by individuals and businesses wishing to support renewable energy or reduce their carbon footprint. This section could cover the eligibility requirements contained in most RPS policies, which explains why RECs in supply-constrained Massachusetts trade for $55 while they cost only $3 in Texas. DB —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.26.156.252 (talk) 21:49, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Country context needed?
I suspect that this article is about the United States but there is nothing in the article to suggest this. -- Alan Liefting ( talk ) - 09:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, the article refers to the United States. I've added a clarification in the opening paragraph... what else did you find confusing, to warrant the "confusing" tag? --- Scott Teresi (talk) 17:45, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I guess it was only the country thing. -- Alan Liefting ( talk ) - 23:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * finds some other countries having a mechanism with the same name, for example:
 * Renewable Energy Certificate System - Europe
 * Climate change in Sweden - Renewable energy certificate system
 * Renewable Energy Certificates Registry - Australia
 * There may be more countries using the same mechanism; I didn't look too far in the search results, and Wikipedia may not have articles about all the countries yet. --Teratornis (talk) 21:20, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I think, if this article is to use the term "Renewable Energy Certificates" as it's title, it should become a general article about the concept of RECs, not the particular case of the US implementation. As has been pointed out, RECs are used in many other countries and one may become confused and mislead into thinking it was a purely US policy instrument. I think either this article needs to be renamed i.e. "Renewable Energy Certificates (USA)", or developed into a more generalised article. --61.69.26.118 (talk) 02:35, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

The influence of Federal subsidies on renewable energy
The entire article omits any mention of the role of Federal tax credits and accelerated depreciation schedules in financing renewable energy (RE) projects. For the garden variety utility scale wind farm, the sale of RECs provides less than one tenth of the additional revenue that a generator gets over and above the sale of the energy. It is very hard to estimate the additional contribution that the REC subsidy provides. The sources listed, particularly Gillenwater, document the finances very clearly. I will add this clarification to the article in a few days if no one responds. 04:08, 6 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sutherix (talk • contribs)

Content lifted directly from publication
At the very least, the section labelled additionality has been copied word-for-word from 'Wave power: High-impact Strategies - What You Need to Know: Definitions ...' By Kevin Roebuck. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.55.164.254 (talk) 15:51, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Existing industry and Arcadia Power marketing
The article probably needs a section on industry. Winds of change?: Deconstructing renewable energy certificates seems like a decent overview.

Arcadia Power seems to be doing a lot of national marketing in this area, and raised $3.5m not too long ago. Probably should have an article on the company, but I'm starting this section for notes first. II | (t - c) 00:31, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

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text: Category:Russian mixed martial artists

title: Category:Russian mixed martial artists


text: User talk:69.243.120.196

title: User talk:69.243.120.196


text:
Nonreturner

A nonreturner is a person who did not return to some initial destination point, or to previous way of life, etc.

 * Never-returners (Anāgāmī), a group of noble disciples (Buddhist Sekhas) on the Buddhist path.
 * Nonreturnees (невозвращенцы), a slang term for Soviet citizen who refused to come back to USSR from the trips abroad.

title: Nonreturner


text:
History of US Salernitana 1919

The history of US Salernitana 1919, so renamed since 12 July 2012, officially started in 2011 as Salerno Calcio, following the collapse of Salernitana Calcio 1919 in Lega Pro Prima Divisione, based in Salerno, Campania. The previous incarnation of the club was founded in 1919 as Unione Sportiva Salernitana, changing its name to Salernitana Sport in 1978 and being refounded in 2005 with Salernitana Calcio 1919.

Unione Sportiva Salernitana
Unione Sportiva Salernitana was founded on 19 June 1919 by Adalgiso Onesti, who initiated the merger of an older club using the same name; which itself was founded in 1911 by a merger of four local clubs; and Foot-Ball Club Salerno.

The club was known as Società Sportiva Salernitanaudax for a time during the 1920s.

Salernitana Sport
In 1978 the club was renamed Salernitana Sport. It can be argued that Salernitana's best period as a club was 1997–1999. In the 1997–98 season, Salernitana topped Serie B and gained their second promotion to Serie A (first was in 1947–48). A young Marco Di Vaio led the scoring charts with 21 goals. In the 1998–99 season, their first in Serie A after 50 years, Salernitana fought hard and were led by Cameroonian international Rigobert Song and Salvatore Fresi in defense, a young Gennaro Gattuso in midfield, and Marco Di Vaio and David Di Michele leading the attack. They recorded surprise wins against Inter, Juventus, Roma and Lazio. They finished 1 point shy of salvation and were relegated.

Since then, the club did not manage to return to the top flight, and was excluded from Serie B in 2005.

Salernitana Calcio 1919
In the summer 2005 was established Salernitana Calcio 1919, a new club which started again from Serie C1. In 2008, Salernitana finally returned to Serie B as Serie C1/B champions, after mathematically securing the title on 27 April.

In the season 2009-10 the club was relegated to Lega Pro Prima Divisione with 6-point deduction for economic default.

In the summer 2011, it did not appeal against the exclusion of Covisoc and it is definitely excluded by the Italian football.

From Salerno Calcio to U.S. Salernitana 1919
On 21 July 2011 the new club of Salerno Calcio was founded in the city by the company Morgenstern S.r.l.; however, they were forced to give up their Salernitana Calcio 1919 name for the present one.

The club in the 2011–12 season was immediately promoted to Lega Pro Seconda Divisione winning the Group G of Serie D.

On 12 July 2012 the club was renamed U.S. Salernitana 1919.

Presidential history
Below is the complete presidential history of Salernitana, from when Adalgiso Onesti was first in place at the club in 1919 to 2011.

Managerial history
Salernitana have had many managers and trainers running the team during their history, here is a chronological list of them from 1919 onwards.

title: History of US Salernitana 1919


text:
Talk:Liver punch

Context
The opening sentence needs a little more context and perhaps some links to help someone who comes to the page without any knowledge of the subject. Turnstep 17:28, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

Hatton
Ricky Hatton used a liver punch to knock out Jose Luis Castillo on June 23rd 2007, is there a way to incorporate that into the article?

Merge article
This article should be merged with Liver shot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.136.130.139 (talk) 20:19, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Liver punch