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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One/Archive 1

Bobo192's proposal
User:Bobo192 proposed the following for driver articles.

Drivers
Provisional idea only - unapproved (as yet).

There should be a complete article on every driver who has completed in a Formula One race. Information in this article should be set out as follows.

..name.. (born ..month day.. ..year.., died ..month day.. ..year..) is/was a ..nationality.. ..Formula One.. driver.

 * information*

And I'm thinking.. as I had set it up on the stubbed guys, there should be some kind of synopsis.

Grands Prix (as of *last race*): a starts (as of *last race*): b Pole positions (as of Race:year): c First Grand Prix: d e (where D=country/circuit and E=year) Last Grand Prix: f g (where F=country/circuit and G=year)

--Grands Prix participated in-- (change these to equals signs, and rephrase away from sloppiness)

(first Grand Prix) [Date Year (Country/Circuit Grand Prix)] [qualifying position] [qualifying time] [final race position] [points achieved in race] [xxxx (Country) Grand Prix Report] (second Grand Prix) [Year (Country/Circuit Grand Prix)] [qualifying position] [qualifying time] [final race position] [points achieved in race] [xxxx (Country) Grand Prix Report] ... (last Grand Prix) [Year (Country/Circuit Grand Prix)] [qualifying position] [qualifying time] [final race position] [points achieved in race] [xxxx (Country) Grand Prix Report]

(complete table)

It looks nasty there, but it'll look prettier when I set the idea up. I'll show you what I have planned for one of the drivers.

(Note: In table form, this'll be sideways instead of downways)

An idea for the table
Ricardo Patrese:

Race Starts: 256 (or Races 257, if you prefer)

-1-

Race: Monaco Grand Prix 1977 (hyperlinked to race itself) Date: May 22nd 1977 (not hyperlinked to anything) Grid: (or Qual) 15 (not hyperlinked - or perhaps, if and when we get it set up, to the qualifying grid embedded in the race itself) Time: 1 m 32.520 (both hyperlinked to minute (time) and second (time) in the first citation) Posn: (or something of that sort): 9 Pnts: (in this case) 0

-*Last* (number 257, in actual fact)-

Race: Australian Grand Prix 1993 Date: November 7th 1993 Grid: (or Qual (position on start grid)): 9 Time: 1 m 16.077 s Posn: (or something of that sort (position at end of race)): 8 Pnts: (in this case) 0

(begin table)

Headings:

Grand Prix Number Grand Prix Date Qualifying Position Qualifying Time Grand Prix Final Position Points in race

1 Grand Prix Of Monaco 1977 May 22nd 1977 15 1:32.560 9 0

...

257 Grand Prix Of Australia 1993 November 7th 1993 9 1:16.077 8 0

I promise I'll get to work on them soon. Read immediately below for my ideas.

Ricardo Patrese
And then at the bottom:

Pole Positions:

(start) ([year] Grand Prix of.. [circuit/location]) ([year] Grand Prix of.. [circuit/location]) (total) (end)

Victories:

(start) ([year] Grand Prix of.. [circuit/location]) ([year] Grand Prix of.. [circuit/location]) (total) (end)

I think this is worthwhile only for the single-Grand-Prix rookie kids and no-longer-running drivers (which, since I've demonstrated with dear Ricardo..!)

It got placed at the bottom, but you get the idea. Please PM me back if you feel you would like me to change this in any way.

Discussion

 * I think these ideas are excellent, but having a complete list of results for every race entered by every driver might be too tall an order. An infobox on each driver page is, however, an excellent idea - it could have a few basic statistics, such as number of GP's entered, number of wins, and such. — Dan | Talk 22:17, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree with Dan; I think that listing every result for every driver is OTT. However, I do think it is a good idea to have a standardised table of major statistics for every driver. Either way, you are doing good work. Keep it up. SamH 10:02, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I also agree - listing the results of every race of a driver's career would just be too much. However, I'd welcome a table of major statistics (eg. number of races competed, number of race wins, number of pole positions, etc). Possibly an illustration of the driver's helmet design aswell? Could this be too difficult? doctorvee 16:31, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Agreed... i think the stats on the Mark Webber page summarise whats needed pretty well. doctorvee, the current helmet designs are available for free for the press on the FIA Website - i guess if they are for the press, it would be fair use here? AlbinoMonkey 07:46, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I was going to grab these helmet images but now I can't find them on the FIA website - any pointers? (I thought they'd look quite good alongside the country flags on the results tables - see eg 2005 San Marino Grand Prix). NickF 21:30, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Infobox
I think each circuit article should have an infobox on it listing important statistics such as lap records, etc.

An example:

It's a bit rough-and-ready, but this is the sort of thing I'm suggesting. Any thoughts? doctorvee 16:52, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Very nice. I can't think of any improvments at the moment. SamH 17:03, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Looks perfect to me. Can't think of anything else to add to it. Speedy afterthought: Except for the fact that we should maybe say [ [ Formula One ] ] [ [Grand Prix | Grands Prix] ], instead of Grand Prix, to use the accurate French plural on the grounds that there has been more than one race there. Bobo192

 * Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to think of more stuff to add, as I'm sure there are. I'm worried about circuit diagrams for a start. There isn't one for all of the Formula 1 circuits on Wikipedia, and I wouldn't know where to start creating my own. Furthermore, we must remember that these circuits hold events other than Formula 1, and many circuits have more than one variation (for example, the Sepang circuit can be set up at least three different ways and there is also a go-kart track, so I think these should also somehow be drawn into the diagrams. doctorvee 18:14, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I think it's excellent. However, I suggest spelling out "Formula One Malaysian Grand Prix" or simply "Malaysian Grand Prix." — Dan | Talk 18:15, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Maps
Well I've been going through the Grand Prix pages putting in the infoboxes. But I've reached a bit of a dead end, as many circuits in the latter half of the calendar are missing a map. As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't know how to go about creating my own. The person who drew up the maps which do exist appears to be quite busy with other things - he hasn't done anything on any Formula One articles since May. doctorvee 14:35, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm willing to have a go at creating some...I think a good idea is to basically go to Photoshop or Paint or whatever imaging program you have and stick a map that already exists next to a blank pic, and try and copy it as best you can. At the moment I am busy with exams, but after that I will be free and will put much more contribution to this project. AlbinoMonkey
 * I've had a go at one for the A1-Ring, you can see it here - its not as good as the other ones, but I will fix it up as I get better at doing them AlbinoMonkey 03:21, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Someone changed the map for the Chinese Grand Prix... it looks good, but since all of the others are of a different style, they should all be consistent. Go with the new one, or stick with the old, eg Japanese Grand Prix?? AlbinoMonkey
 * I think that the image in question is the only drawing we have of the Chinese Grand Prix circuit, so we should definitely keep it for now. Looking at the broader picture however, I don't think having a consistent style for the circuit drawings is really necessary; there are already different style drawings at German Grand Prix, Italian Grand Prix and Hungarian Grand Prix and they look fine to me. SamH 09:12, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I would like to see a consistent style for the maps. I like the Shanghai style, but since the bold red style is far more common, I would like to see all Formula One circuit maps looking like this. I'd like to see turn names / numbers incoporated. Also, maps of all circuits at a facility would be good (eg. the six at Bahrain International Circuit - see ).

Drivers best known outside F1?
Apologies if this has been thrashed out already, but what is the policy with regard to drivers who had a very minor F1 career, but were extremely successful in other forms of motorsport? A good example being Tony Marsh, who competed in only five Grands Prix and never scored a point, yet is a six-times British Hillclimb champion, still competes in hillclimbs and is considerably better known today in that capacity than he is as a Formula One driver. Loganberry 23:39, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * A decent subset Formula One drivers, it seems, never used to be Formula One drivers, but drivers who sporadically competed in Formula One races. I'll grant you that what I'm referring to are either stand-in drivers or guys who generally ply/plied their trade elsewhere. I think that articles cannot merely be limited to one part of a guy's career. In my opinion, it's as important to include Marsh's hill-climb statistics, as it is to include the fact that in nineteen-mumble, someone won the championship which got them on the first rung of the ladder.

 * I think the information about other forms of racing is essential. After all, we're focussing on the drivers as pertains to biographical interest here.

 * Whether it's enough to say, "Schumi Sr. started racing karts in 84... (rest of article, covering career in prose) and eventually came through to win his seventh championship in 2004" (sloppy phrasing, but that's the idea) or not, is up to you guys, I think. Bobo192 18:10, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * A good point. It is a problem, I know. But I think the answer is to take the approach of Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Obviously, in F1 circles Indianapolis is best known for the F1 circuit - but in America and at Indianapolis itself the oval and the Indy 500 are far more important than the F1 race. The article contains just a section for the Grand Prix. Similarly, if you look at the Toyota article, there is a separate Formula One section in it. A sticking point might be with somebody like Cristiano da Matta. He is probably most famous worldwide as the F1 driver, but he has gone back to Indycars of his own accord. I think a modest 'infobox' should be placed in a separate section for his Formula One career aswell, secondary to his overall career. doctorvee 10:01, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Drivers infobox proposal
OK, I thought I could get the ball rolling on a shorter infobox for drivers. I've taken the stats from Schumacher's article to come up with this. It's just a rough idea and as you can see, my table editing skills aren't brilliant. Certainly, it would be good if we could get free images of driver's helmets to pretty the infoboxes up. Please feel free to improve it as you wish. SamH 10:23, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * That's lookin' really cool. Just had to correct a typo (hope you'll forgive me!). Maybe for the no-longer-running drivers, we can also include the statistic (after First Grand Prix) of Last Grand Prix (and after First win) of Last win.

 * Thoughts/suggestions?

 * just in reply to what SamH mentioned above in regards to helmets - i mentioned above that they are available from the FIA website to media, i guess this is the media and it would be ok to use them. otherwise, they are not too difficult to make if you can find a decent picture of it...i've made one here - its Timo Glocks, my first try, i think its alright...a bit non-lifelike though....AlbinoMonkey 08:52, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I presume this is the page that you are referring to but I can't see anything about copyright info on those images. If they are freely available to the media then I suppose we might be able to use them, but I have very limited knowledge of copyright law so I'm not sure. SamH 12:46, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Good point - the same page is also under the heading of "Press Information" - and the file is freely available to download. However, I know nothing about copyright and I wouldn't want to annoy Bernie (he is apparently suing Jackie Stewart for disparaging comments about the Silverstone affair! ) AlbinoMonkey 14:47, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I've added championship results to the table. Is this too much or not? SamH 13:44, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I think it's a bit much, and that each season can be covered by the article. Rdsmith4— Dan | Talk 22:02, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I've created my own take on the infobox. I've tried to keep it as similar as possible to the Constructors infobox for the sake of continuity. doctorvee 22:59, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * In line with the constructors and races infoboxes I've made a Template:F1 driver for the drivers. I've simply copied User:Ed g2s's infobox as I don't have the skills to make my own from scratch. SamH 23:11, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I've done another one for former drivers that has more relevant info: Template:Former F1 driver. SamH 09:17, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Infobox
We can't leave the Grands Prix out!
 * Hey, I like it! All these are great. Incidentally, where did you get the lap record information and whatnot? Rdsmith4— Dan | Talk 16:01, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I've been using Formula1.com, FIA.com and a supplement that came with The Guardian. I don't think the supplement is very accurate though, so when implementing these properly I will always check with another source. Lap records can be found on Formula1.com by clicking on the circuit you want information for (eg. ). doctorvee 16:51, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Very good. Again, I can't think of any improvments. SamH 16:38, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I've added the infobox to Australian Grand Prix. I've added a couple of things to it. I also added the Formula One template, but it looks a little bit uneasy stuck in the middle of the page like that. Thoughts? doctorvee 17:30, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Looks fine to me. There are other articles, such as rail transport, where there are templates in the middle of the article. SamH 18:08, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I took it out before I saw your message because I figured it was a mistake - I don't think Template:Formula One belongs on any pages but the ones linked on the template itself, simply because the article and the infobox already link to Formula One, and I think the template is rather redundant. Rdsmith4— Dan | Talk 19:19, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've added the infobox to Austrian Grand Prix... two points though: AlbinoMonkey 03:21, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * The 2003 race was scheduled for 71 laps, but only raced 69 of them (i can't remember why..) - so I just put the scheduled laps and distance in there.
 * I just created the circuit image quickly then, it will do for now i guess, but it is not of the standard of the other ones, such as Image:Australiagprix.png.

 * Yeah, the infobox poses a problem for obsolete grands prix. Information such as the number of laps and hence race distance often change anyway, so I think these statistics should only be included in the infobox for grands prix which still exist. I think obsolete grands prix need their own infobox, or perhaps none at all. doctorvee 15:32, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Past winners
There are some inconsistencies with the tables of past winners on the grand prix articles. For instance, if you look at United States Grand Prix, Formula One championship events are denoted in pink, with non-championship grands prix in white. Also, should the most recent winner be at the top, or should he be at the bottom, like in Malaysian Grand Prix? Should drivers' nationalities be put in a separate cell? Should their nationalities be linked to (eg. Ayrton Senna (Brazil)? For the location column, should the circuit be used, or the place name (eg. Sepang or Sepang International Circuit? There needs to be standardisation.

I think it is worth distinguishing non-championship events from Formula One grands prix. But I think non-championship events should be in pink, not the other way about. I think the most recent winner should be at the top. Drivers' nationalities should be put in a separate cell, and they should be linked to. And I think the circuit name should be used (although do we know names for circuits which were used 60 / 70 / 80 years ago?). What does everybody else think? doctorvee 11:21, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree that we need standardisation of these tables. My feelings on the issues you raised are:

 * non-championship events should be in pink
 * most recent winner at the top
 * link to the circuit not the place name
 * nationalities shouldn't be included; personally I don't see the relevance.
 * SamH 11:39, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Seeing as nobody has objected, I'll begin to sort these out using your guidelines. doctorvee 14:26, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I think that the circuit should certainly be linked, but the link itself should be the common shortened version (I think most all circuits have a 'nickname'), i.e. Melbourne or Imola . Rdsmith4— Dan | Talk 14:52, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Fair enough. There is a problem with using the names of circuits. I only had to go as far back as Adelaide and I was stuck. I also can't find out the full names of early winners. I suppose we just have to do the best we can. doctorvee 14:57, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Some (by no means, and I truly mean that, all) of the names of the early winners are known and available (he says, meaning he knows them off the top of his head).
 * And speaking of full names of circuits, are we trying to imply that there is some kind of dispute of definity in some of the names? It strikes me that it sounds very much in the same vein as using terms like "M******o Magyar Nagydíj" instead of "Turkish Grand Prix".
 * Sincere apologies if I'm not on the right lines. It's been a long morning..!

 * PS. Apologies for not getting to this topic quicker. This is all beautifully-crafted work. If we could keep this up, that would be the best. Bobo192 06:54, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Constructors infobox
...and of course the constructors aswell. doctorvee 16:01, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Looks good, but Grove needs redirecting. I can't remember for the life of me where to, though, because there are a number of Grove placenames on this Wikipedia. Slightly more expert knowledge, anyone? Bobo192
 * I've just looked it up - its Grove, Oxfordshire, which unfortunately doesn't have a page at the moment. I left the link alone.AlbinoMonkey

 * It can be fixed when it is added to the Williams article itself. doctorvee 11:05, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * This is looking good. With the last race of the season coming up, I'm going to carry out my regular work on getting the article ready and posted, tables and all. I have a week's break coming up, during which time I'm hopefully going to get more work done on (hopefully all) the Grands Prix before I go back and find myself in deep water again. Bobo192 12:06, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Also, for the Debut information, should the link be to the actual race, not the Grand Prix and the year? That is, 1978 Argentine Grand Prix instead of Argentine Grand Prix, 1978...this is assuming that eventually each individual race will have a results/review page, like 2004 Monaco Grand Prix. AlbinoMonkey

 * I've removed the car numbers row as it's duplicated in the race drivers row. I've also fixed the debut link. SamH 14:13, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Speaking of which, at this present moment, the debut Grand Prix link is printed as 1979, but going to 1978. Can somebody please fix this, as time is currently snapping at my heels. Bobo192 06:56, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * According to their website it should be 1978, I think I've fixed it... AlbinoMonkey 08:25, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Regarding the team logos, many teams have two logos - one for promotional stuff, and another which is placed on the nose of the car. You can see an example of the Williams logos pretty much side-by-side here: . Which should be used in the infobox? Another worthwhile addition to the infobox might be the car livery, since we are adding drivers' helmet designs to their infoboxes. doctorvee 14:22, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I'd say we should go with the "promotional stuff" logo. Other than that, can we start adding these to constructors' articles? SamH 16:06, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Yup, I'll start adding them now. Rdsmith collected good Ferrari and Williams logos, so perhaps these should be left to him. If any changes need to be made to the infobox from now on, they can just evolve in the articles themselves. doctorvee 17:23, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Most of the teams (i haven't checked all of them) have their 2004 drivers listed in the infobox, but Sauber has 2005. Should we change them all, put Sauber back, or just leave it. Since it had the 2005 drivers (Villeneuve and Massa) I changed the tyres to Michelin - so if it is decided to change them all to 2004, this should be fixed also. Regards AlbinoMonkey 04:31, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I think we should change all the infoboxes to 2005 info as soon as we have it. SamH 10:02, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * And for teams like Williams, Jordan and Minardi? Should we put unknown or something for the drivers. Also about the chassis and engines...we know what they will be called (ie McLaren's MP4-19 will obviously be the MP4-20 for 2005), but they haven't actually been created yet...what to do? AlbinoMonkey 10:21, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Template
Good work with the new template. I had no idea you could use a template like that! Perhaps this is the sort of thing we should adopt for all the infoboxes now.

Also, out of interest, where did you get all those logos? Particularly the McLaren one, I've never seen that before. It looks more like something they would have had in the 1980s! doctorvee 21:48, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 'Twasn't me, though I'd been planning on creating that sort of template (see User:Rdsmith4/Experiments). User:Ed g2s did it all, and I think his template is a lot prettier than mine. Rdsmith4— Dan | Talk 22:24, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I've made one for grands prix too - see Template:F1 race. — Dan | Talk 23:16, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was hoping User:Ed g2s would see that, but I'm not sure he's aware of the WikiProject.. Nice grand prix templates; the Formula One articles are really coming along now! doctorvee 16:55, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Safety
I think there should be something about safety regulations somewhere - either in the Formula One regulations page, on the Formula One page, Formula One cars page or just as a separate article itself. I was thinking of information on helmet construction, crash tests, wheel tether loadings, roll cage sizes, marshalls, track design?, tyre barriers...maybe a note also about serious crashes if this is not inappropriate. I am willing to do it myself, but don't have much time for a couple of weeks. Let me know if I have just missed the page/section completely! AlbinoMonkey 09:51, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I think it would fit best under Formula One regulations. Rdsmith4— Dan | Talk 03:17, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * OK - there is heaps of info available at the FIA Website here, if I don't get around to it for a while. The 'regulations' section has sections on driver equipment (helmet, fireproof suits), in-car equipment (fire extinguisher), tyre barrier impact specs, and there is heaps more under the 2005 Technical regulations page. AlbinoMonkey 05:31, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

New category
I added the category, as a sub to. Hope this makes sense... Wanted to update you folks here since you're the closest to these pages :) --Wolf530 20:55, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

Christian Klien
I had a go at expanding the Christian Klien stub, mainly using information from his own website and GrandPrix.com, but other sources as well. It's a bit bad, as some of the things just run straight into each other (like he raced in one category, finished here. then he went onto something else, and finished there). Also I didn't know what to do with the section headings, because it looked a bit dodgy without any. I can't find a picture of him where I don't need permission to use it, so if someone could find one it would be great. I'm a bit unhappy with the quote impressive speed, because it sounds a bit biased (although I'm not a fan of his...). If anyone can make suggestions or improvements, please do so - its the first major change I've made to a page... but it needed doing. Thanks. --AlbinoMonkey 12:42, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

F1 records
Does anyone think we need a page dedicated to F1 records? I have created one on my userpage (here) as a preliminary example. BillCook, 21 Dec 2004
 * I don't think there is a page dedicated to it, someone's got a list of M.Schumacher's on his page - but yours looks good. Thumbs up, --AlbinoMonkey 00:20, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Category expansion proposal
Having just stumbled across these pages, I'd like to make a bit of a change to the category structure and figured I'd run it through here to make sure it didn't catch anyone by surprise. Considering the large number of nation-specific articles in Category:Formula One race reports (and their associated "main" articles in Category:Formula One Grands Prix) I propose to create individual categories for each nation that has a significant number of such articles. So for example Category:Argentine Grand Prix would hold Argentine Grand Prix as well as all of the Argentine race reports, and would be subcategorized under Category:Motor racing in Argentina and Category:Formula One Grands Prix. All the race reports would still remain in Category:Formula One race reports. Doing this would make it easy to stick all these articles under their respective national sports categories. If nobody objects, I'll go ahead and do all the grunt work myself. Bryan 07:49, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea to me. — Dan | Talk 15:50, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

newbie moment
I'm having a newbie moment... I guess it's like a blonde moment, but in a male. Anyway, how do I join this group? I've been updating many driver bios and I like your templates, but I still think that apart from them there should be some text to accompany them, since there's much more to the driver than the actual template (i.e. what he did before and after F1, dob, dod, etc).

Diego440 15:09, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Right, the template box is in addition to the article. It's just meant to put all the important statistics in one place. To join, just add your name under "members". — Dan | Talk 15:50, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

2nd proposal
Once again. I was checking the former driver templates, and I think the template would look good for former GOOD drivers, but there are many drivers who didn't accomplish much, and the template would look to cluttered with zeroes. Nevertheless, did a new template for former drivers, perhaps you'll like it more, or not. I innovated a bit and included "highest qualifying position" and "highest finish position", nationality, teams, and points. What do you think?

 * I've just posted about this situation too. That template is much better for some drivers. Hedley 15:38, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Diego440 15:46, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

other Formula
For future consideration, we need more info on parallel Formulas, such as Formula Ford, Formula Renault, Formula 5000 and others, since when you're reading a F1 pilot bio, they usually start out in these minor championships. Now, there is more than enough info on karting, formula junior and many others, and that's greatly appreciated. Still, I'm not demanding anyone to do it, but if you have the info or can find it, go right ahead and post it. I'm quite occupied at the moment with former pilot's bios and will later go ahead with the former team's bios, probably. OK, there's my talk. Diego440 13:13, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree, i've started adding primitive stubs on drivers who never raced Formula One, or who tested and never got an article. I'm hoping to expand into series articles too, as right now coverage is poor (See what doesn't exist: FIA GT Championship, IndyLights, British Formula Three, Swedish Touring Car Championship..) Hedley 02:12, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Former driver template - Biased to success
The former driver template is good for drivers like Ayrton Senna who won lots of races, but its not much use to drivers who didn't have much success during their career. I have just added it to an article i'm working on, Esteban Tuero, and having a list of 0's doesn't look very good. The 'First win', 'Last win' also looks stupid there as he never won any races.

Maybe there should be an extra template for drivers who weren't too successful? A 'best finish' line might be better than the first/last win part for drivers like Tuero. Hedley 15:37, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Is this a 'good article'?
Esteban Tuero. I think that it includes whats necessary - Pictures, early career, his F1 career, and post F1 career. Maybe a bit exhaustive for what a 'typical good article' should look like but nevertheless, i'd like to know if it can be improved.

 * I've not read the article yet, but some references are needed, and the images need source and copyright info. SamH|Talk 20:54, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

New Stub
Upon consultation with admins i've been given the go-ahead, and have gone ahead in adding a new stub for motorsport. With other sports such as cricket and American football having stubs motorsport clearly needed one, and I thought i'd post here for anyone writing F1-related stubs.

The new tag is, and it covers all forms of motorsport. To use it just type at the end of the article. Hedley 23:27, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

F1 stub tag
And now, upon recommendation, there is an F1 stub tag for articles related to F1. You can use it by typing at the end of a stub article.
 * And if you want to keep it, you'd better use it. Since there had been <30 articles listed on it, there was a suggestion at WikiProject Stub sorting to have it wiped (along with several other "unneeded" categories). I found about 75 articles in an hour which should have had F1-stub messages and didn't, and I'm sure there's a ton more out there. - SoM 17:17, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Amon team page?
What's the correct link for the Amon team from the 1970s? Several pages have linked to Amon, which doesn't even have a disambiguating link to the right place. A few others link direct to Chris Amon, which only briefly mentions the team. --ScottDavis 11:28, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Probably best to create a new article for it. Amon (Formula One team) perhaps? doctorvee 19:35, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Open Tasks
I've just made the article thats on the Open Tasks box which was under 'Needs to be created', Christian Horner. Do I go ahead and remove it from the template, or do I wait for someone else to do it? I'm not too sure. Hedley 23:34, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, feel free to remove it yourself, and feel free to add more requests in its place. — Dan | Talk 04:02, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Climax
Hello. I'm just stopping in here because I noticed a lot of these pages have the term 'climax' wikilinked. I have no idea what it means in racing terms, but the links are going to a disambig, which has made it one of the most linked to disambigs. Someone might want to look into that soon. --InShaneee 15:18, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah it's probably links in the race results to Coventry Climax... I haven't got time to do it for a while, but will have a go if its not all changed by the time I get a chance. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 06:46, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ronnie Peterson
Seems to have lost its format somewhere. I've tagged it for cleanup but the usual infoboxes don't seem present right now. Hedley 12:41, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Driver - "Complete Formula One results" section
I'm after some advice on this section. (see for example Jenson Button)

NickF 21:57, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Is this now the accepted way of presenting a driver's racing history? (Personally I prefer it to anything else I've seen)
 * When a driver hasn't raced, should the race really not be linked? I tried putting it in italics -- see Nick Heidfeld, year 2000, race 8, Canada -- but it's not as clear as it is when not linked. Compare to Jenson's 2003 Monaco - but it is nice to be able to go straight to the race.
 * Should we put blank lines when a driver is out of F1 for a few years (eg Alexander Wurz)?

 * I have some further ideas on this. I think a coloured grid shows results quite clearly, for example this shows Michael Schumacher's results over the last 2 years (with a "fake" 3rd place in Germany 04 to show the bronze colour!):

I'm away for a couple of weeks but if this looks good let me know and I will update / add results grids to drivers when I am back. NickF 22:52, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks good, but how does a viewer know the key? Also, the silver is too light (partially colourblind will struggle with it) and 'Retired' would be better as 'Did not finish'.
 * There should maybe be a 'DNQ' availability too, as for some drivers their whole career was in and out of DNQ's which are otherwise noted as did not compete. Sospiri in Australia '97 is different is a did not compete for Sato in Malaysia '04, or a did not compete for Schumacher during '99. Hedley 16:08, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * In the case of a driver not competing for a few years, like in Wurz' case, the line should not be there at all. Hedley 16:11, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think this is an excellent idea; a small link to a "legend" would solve the problem of reader confusion. However, I don't quite know where the legend should be placed - it's not conventional to link to a WikiProject from the main namespace. Should an exception be made in this case, and the legend placed at WikiProject Formula One/Driver results legend? — Dan | Talk 18:12, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * How does this now look? I've added separate colours for DNQ and DNF, made silver and bronze darker, and I think the legend could go on each page, as long as we make it small. Not sure if this could maybe be a template for consistent inclusion? NickF 20:51, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Looks great, how long until we implement? My .02 regarding the legend, one could always call it F1 Driver results legend or WP F1 Driver results legend, thereby not naming inside a WikiProject namespace... -slowpokeiv 15:55, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, just thought of one more colour category: Disqualified. I'm sure that Button @ Imola and Montoya at Canada can't of been the only instances of drivers being DSQ'ed. If not, does it merit it's own colour, or should it be lumped in with DNQ? (Red) -slowpokeiv 00:55, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

 * DSQ could perhaps be black? doctorvee 01:48, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * like this?: -slowpokeiv 17:48, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

OK, seeing lack of dispute, and in the spirit of Being Bold, I have taken the liberty of creating F1 Driver results legend, added it to the 2005 results page. In addition, I took the liberty of reordering the legend, as I think a first place is more important and should be, well, first. Again, many compliments to NickF, without whom, all would be black and white. -slowpokeiv 02:23, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Live Template:

Flags
Why are the scottish and english flags used instead of the Union flag? What's the reasoning behind this since they're all classified as GBR, and we have the British grand prix, not English. -- Joolz 11:09, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I had wondered that myself. I think the television graphics also use the Union flag. I think it is best to use the Union flag. doctorvee 17:31, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Good question, but ask a Scottsman, and they would probably call themself Scottish, not British or English, and as such, the Scottish flag might be more appropriate. However, for Button and any other English drivers, the Union Jack might be better, or at least more recognizable, in my opinion. slowpokeiv 20:37, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Uhm, you're working on the assumption that most scottish people don't want to be part of Britain and most english people do, neither of which are neccessarily true. Regardless of the accuracy of that, I don't think we can just cherrypick the drivers views to decide which flag we should use. Whether they want to be called Scottish/English or whatever isn't really relevent in my opinion, if there was a hawaiian driver would we fly the hawaiian flag for them? -- Joolz 22:14, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it should be the Union Jack - that's what's flown if they're on the podium, that's what's used on the TV graphics (and their passports probably say "British"!). And that's what I put on the 2005 San Marino Grand Prix when I first added the flags... NickF 18:15, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I’ll agree that one can't (or shouldn’t) pick and choose on a driver by driver basis. Never the less, Scotland is different than Hawaii, as it is its own country, currently in a personal union with England. (formalized in 1707) Separate countries should qualify for separate flags in the wikipedia, in my opinion. Whether the FIA recognizes this or not should be irrelevant. If however, it is determined that we do not wish to make that distinction, I beg you pardon my intrusion. slowpokeiv 19:09, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It depends on how you define "country". Scotland is much more of a nation rather than a country. If you read the first sentence of the country article, Scotland does not fulfill all of those criteria. The drivers in question will carry British, not Scottish or English, passports. doctorvee 20:02, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Good question. How do we define Nationality? (a required field in the former drivers template.) Should English (1, 2, 3), Scottish (4, 5, 6), and Northern Irish (7) be considered Nationalities, or should all drivers GBR be classified British?(8, 9, 10) Currently, there are examples of all four "Nationalities", which in my mind is incorrect. However, as I have no connections to the United Kingdom closer than John of Gaunt, I feel unqualified to make the decision as to which is more correct. (For that matter, it may be as I am so far removed from the situation, that I am not seeing what is obvious to one less removed.) Nevertheless, as my record has shown a distinct tendancy to standardize articles, I will stick to cleaning up these articles in the direction chosen, whichever direction that may be. slowpokeiv 14:16, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I am a Scotsman, and I'd rather have the Union Jack thank you very much. doctorvee 18:38, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with the Union Jack for all simply because thats whats flown on the podium. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 01:07, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Looks like Union Flag (or Jack) is the majority decision; I will change the 2005 United States Grand Prix to reflect this, and presumably this will be carried forward. NickF 21:02, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Not that many people voted. And changing halfway through a season is not an especially good idea. Personally, I think that the Saltire/St George's Cross should be used as appropriate - SoM 22:21, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * There was no vote, as far as I can see a poll would be unneccessary because most people agree that the Union flag should be used - and the simple solution to changing halfway through a season is to just change all the other races. -- Joolz 23:16, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I prefer to see St. George, but it should be the Union flag for this. violet/riga (t) 23:46, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, based on the simple reason that if a British driver gets a podium position, the Union flag is raised, rather than the St George's Cross or St Andrew's Saltire. That alone should make it an obvious decision. -- Francs2000 | Talk 23:52, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Coulthard's helmet has had St. Andrew's cross on it for some time. I think that Jenson has had St. George's cross on his helmet at some point, but he seems to have worn the Union Jack more recently. Pburka 00:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Button has always used a modified version of the Union Jack (modified to create a clever 'JB' symbol within it). Drivers' helmets are not an indication of their nationality, otherwise a flag with a pink squiggle would have been raised on the podium when Jacques Villeneuve won races. doctorvee 15:45, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Button used the same style but applied it to St. George's Cross at the 2004 British GP. violet/riga (t) 16:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Run a helmet up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it. (SEWilco 20:56, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC))
 * My point was that Coulthard, at least, seems to self-identify as Scottish rather than British. But I think it's probably not the driver's decision to make. Pburka 16:46, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

VFD on a Formula One driver page
As I was looking up some drivers, I came across the page for Mike MacDowel, which apparently has been nominated for deletion. Current claims are that this driver was non-notable. My question, that I pose to the group, is what is our justification for having pages for drivers that have raced in only one race, and would someone quick state that justification on the page's vote for deletion discussion page before it does in fact become deleted. slowpokeiv 14:16, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Mike MacDowel has now survived the VfD. Pburka 2 July 2005 20:14 (UTC)

Bernd Nacke now has his head on the chopping block. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 3 July 2005 04:25 (UTC)
 * I started to edit this article to make it obviously worth keeping. Part-way through Google research, I found this page, claiming he is the same person as Guenther Bechem, which that article also says. Does this project have anyone who can confirm or refute this? Either the Bechem article needs to be corrected, or the two articles merged. --ScottDavis 3 July 2005 08:43 (UTC)
 * yep, its the same person. see here and here... merge them under the Bechem name, as this appears to be his actual name. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 4 July 2005 07:52 (UTC)

Tobacco sponsorship
I've just started the tobacco advertising article and have written some details about the tobacco sponsorship of F1. It's somewhat vague at the moment and has massive gaps. I don't think it needs to be a full and complete history of the link, but some people may wish to take a look and add any important points to it. Cheers, violet/riga (t) 23:14, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

(year) Formula One Season suggestion - Table?
I ran across a table in my favourite Formula One mag, (is there more than one quality F1 mag? if so, if someone would let me know on my chat page...) and was thinking, the table they have in there looks pretty nice. The question I pose, would a complete results table, in addition to the current table already in place, be a good idea? I don't see anything wrong with the table aready in place, and I don't suggest altering it in any way. What I do suggest, is a quick table listing all drivers in a given year, and the results therin. One benefit would be that you could see at a glance exactly who did what for the entire season, for example, that both Heidfeld and Trulli had three podiums, but not a victory. One detriment that I can think of, is that it might be a touch bulky. I've quickly whipped up a (very) rough representation of my idea, and placed it in my sandbox, but for the reason of size, I am hesitant to add it to this talk page, but will if requested or desired. -slowpokeiv 15:49, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * My feeling is that it would be easier to read quickly if the positions they finished in were shown in the table, rather than the points they were awarded, i'm surprised there isn't such a table already though, looks good! -- Joolz 20:07, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of it, but it takes up too much vertical space right now. Perhaps stripping the names down to surname only, and teams to manufacturer only, would prevent word wrap.  I think it might also be nice to have the non-points-finishing positions be faded out in some way, thus the points positions stand out.  violet/riga (t) 20:17, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree the width issue is a problem (it's a problem for me on some other F1 tables around too, actually) - i think it should be ordered by points rather than No, and infact, the number column could be dropped entirely -- Joolz 20:27, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Are teams really necessary? That info is already on the season page, in the Drivers and constructors section. The only reason I included teams was because the first table I found online had it, and it was just as easy to leave it in. Anyways, how does take two look? Still too wide? (currently at a wide monitor, width currently not a problem here.) -slowpokeiv 21:15, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I like it - reminds me of the "pull-out-and-keep" tables you used to get in mags (maybe still do?) - you could possibly integrate the colours from ? NickF 19:16, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

OK, technicolor version, how does take 3 look? Added race listing at bottom, as on this monitor, it was a touch too tall... Also, is blank OK for DSQ/EX, or should they be coloured? (I'm split on this, part of me thinks that it should be another color, part thinks that blank is OK) -slowpokeiv 01:10, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It's looking good, I would suggest the drivers be ordered by points rather than number though -- Joolz 01:50, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Seconded... take four looks very good! AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 07:13, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I think it's just about ready to be put into action, don't you? The only other anomaly I can see is Klien has "-" where he didn't race, but Liuzzi doesn't, I'm not sure if that's correct. -- Joolz 15:35, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It looks great, but I would suggest a change for the colors: Make the silver color brighter, and switch the colors for DNF and DNQ. -Fred Bradstadt 16:31, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

 * Looks very good to me. violet/riga (t) 16:48, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks good! - Nick C 17:12, 27 July 2005 (UTC}
 * Re: Color, As the intention is to conform to colors mentioned earlier (in ), that would an issue to take up there. (silver had been intentionally darkened, and in the long run, DNQ might be more severe?) Re: Klien/Liuzzi, I placed dashes to demote when the primary driver of a car did not race, and placed as if Klien was primary driver of the 15. I understand that the 15 is an unusual car circumstance, so if there should be dashes in both, or neither, or as is, I don't know. -slowpokeiv 17:24, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I like the way you're going with Take 4. I don't see the need to have dashes at all. The farther back you go on years, the notion of "primary" driver didn't arise. If a driver was injured or excluded, he would just be replaced by another. Drivers were fired mid-season, a team would switch drivers three or four times in one season, drivers would drive for two or three teams in the same year, etc. Before 1982 and the Concorde Agreement, there were even privateer drivers and teams who entered only a handful of races per season. -- Pc13 14:34, July 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * Added to article as a template, is a major addition to the article - compliments to Slowpokeiv. Any changes should be minor from now on and can be implemented while part of the article. Mark83 12:19, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I have one problem with adding as template in this form, that is, F1 driver standings is to generic of a term. The stated intention is to have this be a table for each year, and as such, that would not work. Further, it doesn't make sense to have a template for only one page. I would suggest, however, to have a template for the colour legend, and the rest of the results in the article itself. -slowpokeiv 18:09, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

 * One last note, I think that it makes more sense to place info under Grands Prix, underneath the expanded listings of drivers, instead of under Drivers and Constructors. -slowpokeiv 18:09, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this is an inapproptiate use of a template — my logic was that as the syntax is huge it would make editing 2005 Formula One season difficult. Also given that the table must be updated at least 19 times a year it is easier to navigate just the template page than the mass of characters which would confront an editor in the edit box on the article page.

 * If it is agreed that it should stay as a template in the article I have no problem with it being moved, e.g. to 2005 F1 driver standings (or the equivalent). I won't object to it being integrated into the article and deleting the template but would draw your attention again to my comments about ease of editing. Mark83 19:37, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree that it is cumbersome... :( If you take a look at take one, it was a lot easier to edit, but unfortunatly, when the front end became easier to read (colour), the back end became a nightmare. Perhaps a temporary solution (on a year by year basis) would be to have a template F1 current season standings, and once the year is over, to paste the contents of the template into the article. (when the mass majority of editing would be finished...) -slowpokeiv 20:21, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

 * That sounds more like a permanent solution to me - and a good one! We get the benefit of the advantages a template brings (edit wise) and by using it year by year and pasting it in we don't have to waste another template each year.


text:
Afar Region

The Afar Region (Qafar Rakaakayak; ዓፋር ክልል), formerly known as Region 2, is a regional state in northeastern Ethiopia and the homeland of the Afar people. Its capital is the planned city of Semera, which lies on the paved Awash – Assab highway. It is bordered by Eritrea to the north and Djibouti to the northeast; it also shares regional borders with the Tigray, Amhara, Oromo and Somali regions.

The Afar Triangle, the northern part of which is the Danakil Depression, is part of the Great Rift Valley of Ethiopia, and is located in the north of the region. It has the lowest point in Ethiopia and one of the lowest in Africa. The southern part of the region consists of the valley of the Awash River, which empties into a string of lakes along the Djibouti – Ethiopia border. Other notable landmarks include the Awash National Park.

Demographics
Based on the 2017 projections by the Central Statistical Agency of Ethiopia (CSA), the Afar Regional State has a population of 1,812,002, consisting of 991,000 men and 821,002 women; urban inhabitants number 346,000 of the population, a further 1,466,000 were pastoralists.

Based on the 2007 Census conducted by the Central Statistical Agency of Ethiopia (CSA), the Afar Regional State has a population of 1,390,273, consisting of 775,117 men and 615,156 women; urban inhabitants number 185,135 or 13.32% of the population, a further 409,123 or 29.43% were pastoralists. With an estimated area of 96,707 square kilometers, this region has an estimated density of 14.38 people per square kilometer. For the entire region 247,255 households were counted, which results in an average for the Region of 5.6 persons to a household, with urban households having on average 4 and rural households 6 people.

Afar is predominantly (89.96%) spoken in the region and is the working language of the state. Other languages with a significant number of speakers in the state include Amharic (6.83%), Tigrinnya (1.06%), Argobba (0.79%), Wolaitta (0.43%), and Oromifa (0.4%).

According to the CSA,, 48.57% of the total population had access to safe drinking water, of whom 26.89% were rural inhabitants and 78.11% were urban. Values for other reported common indicators of the standard of living for the Afar Regional State include the following: 67.3% of the inhabitants fall into the lowest wealth quintile; adult literacy for men is 27% and for women 15.6%; and the regional infant mortality rate is 61 infant deaths per 1,000 live births, which is less than the nationwide average of 77; at least half of these deaths occurred in the infants' first month of life. On 20 April 2007, the regional government announced that it had increased health coverage from 34% to 40%, the result of construction of 64 new health clinics, increasing the total for the region to 111.

Land features
Afar Depression, Erta Ale active volcano, Awash National Park, Yangudi Rassa National Park, Hadar and Aramis areas, are the major tourist attraction area of the region. The hot springs, Afar culture and cultural games are other attraction areas.

In 2005, a giant rift was formed in just a few days. The rift opened when the Dabbahu Volcano, situated in the north of the region, erupted. The crack forming is thought to be part of the process in which the Arabian Plate and the two African plates, the Nubian Plate and the Somali Plate, are moving apart. This new crack, 500 m long, and 60 m deep, opened when the lava from the erupting volcano flowed underground and cooled forming a 60 km long, 8 m wide dike within days.

Environment
The Afar Depression, a plate tectonic triple junction, is found in the Afar Regional State. This geologic feature is one of Earth's great active volcanic areas. Due to this volcanic activity the floor of the depression is composed of lava, mostly basalt. The continuous process of volcanism results in the occurrence of major minerals, including potash, sulfur, salt, bentonite and gypsum. In addition to these minerals, there are also promising geothermal energy sources and hot springs in different areas of the region. Most of the region's mineral potential are found in Dallol, Berhale and Afdera woredas of Zone Two. Elidar, Dubti and Millee in Zone One, and Gewane in Zone Three, also have some mineral possibilities.

Afar is home to peculiar wildlife, which notably include the African wild ass, Grevy's zebra, wild fox, wild cat, cheetah, and ostrich. These wild animals are found in the region's national parks. Because the region's tourism development is still in a poor state there are only two lodges in Awash National Park.

Agriculture
The CSA estimated in 2005 that farmers in the Afar Regional State had a total of 327,370 cattle (representing 0.84% of Ethiopia's total cattle), 196,390 sheep (1.13%), 483,780 goats (3.73%), 200 mules (0.14%), 12,270 asses (0.49%), 99,830 camels (21.85%), 38,320 poultry of all species (0.12%), and 810 beehives (less than 0.1%). The CSA estimated on the basis of a survey performed in December 2003 that nomadic inhabitants had 1,990,850 cattle (an 83.8% share of those animals in the region that year), 2,303,250 sheep (90.6%), 3,960,510 goats (90%), 759,750 camels (85.9%), 175,180 asses (92.5%), 2960 mules (88.6%), and 900 horses (100%).

Regional instability
, the area has been increasingly unstable, as tensions between Ethiopia and Eritrea remain high after the Eritrean – Ethiopian War of 1998 to 2000. On January 18, 2012, five foreign tourists were murdered while on holiday in the region. The Ethiopian government has accused Eritrean gunmen of being responsible for the attack. Many governments around the world advise against traveling to the Afar region, citing increasing security concerns.

Additionally, this region is also a hub for Afar–Somali clashes, due to many kebeles being put into the Afar region by the government. These include key towns like Gadamaytu, Undufo and Adaytu where battles between the Afar region and Somali region militaries happen. These conflicts have had many losses, and have led to the south-eastern parts of the region being an unstable zone.

Fossil finds
Hadar, a community in Afar, was the site of the discovery in 1973 – 74 of "Lucy", the Australopithecus afarensis skeletal remains, by Donald Johanson of the Cleveland Museum of Natural History. On March 5, 2005, another skeleton, estimated to be 3.8 million years old and said to be the world's oldest bipedal hominid skeleton, was found in the region. Yohannes Haile-Selassie led digs there each year from 2004 to 2007.

On March 24, 2006, it was reported that a "significantly complete" cranium had been found at Gawis in the Gona area. The cranium appears as an intermediate form between Homo erectus and Homo sapiens.

On October 1, 2009, scientists reported that they had found a skeleton, which dates around 4.4 million years ago. Named Ardi, it is a form of the species Ardipithecus ramidus. The specimen is a distant cousin of the Australopithecus afarensis, Lucy's species.

In June 2010, the oldest direct evidence of stone tool manufacture was found in the Afar region and attributed to Australopithecus afarensis.

In 2013, a graduate student from the Arizona State University discovered a hominid jawbone in the Ledi-Geraru region of Afar. Scientists estimated that the fossil dates back around 2.8 million years ago, which is 400,000 years before the next oldest hominid fossil remains.

In 2015, a hominin jawbone and teeth was discovered in the Afar region. Scientists believe that the bones belonged to a previously undiscovered ancestor. The new species was named "Australopithecus deyiremeda", meaning "close relative" in the native Afar language. The species lived around 3.5 – 3.3 million years ago, about the same time period as other hominins such as Australopithecus afarensis.

List of Chief Administrator of the Afar Region

 * Habib Alimirah (ALF) 1991? – 1995
 * Hanfare Alimirah (ALF) September 1995 – Mar 1996
 * Ismaqil Qali Siro (APDO/ANDP) March 1996 – September 2015
 * Awol Arba Unde (acting) September 2015 – November 2015
 * Seyoum Awol (ANDP) 16 November 2015 – 16 December 2018
 * Awol Arba Unde (ANDP) 17 December 2018 –  present

(This list is based on information from Worldstatesmen.org.)

Administrative zones
Like other regions in Ethiopia, Afar Region is subdivided into six administrative zones (and one special woreda, an administrative subdivision which is an autonomous area and is not part of a zone).
 * Awsi Rasu
 * Kilbati Rasu
 * Gabi Rasu
 * Fanti Rasu
 * Hari Rasu
 * Mahi Rasu
 * Argobba (special woreda)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

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title: User talk:Qjuad


text:
Cuyuteco

The Cuyuteco people, also known as Cuyuteca, was a tribe of the Nahua culture, that lived primarily in the Pre-Columbian Mixtlán region of Xalisco, in the present day state of Jalisco in western central Mexico and along the Colima coastline. The Nahua are one of the main cultural groups of Mesoamerica.

History
The Cuyuteco people, also known as Cuyuteca, was a tribe of the Nahua culture. The Nahua are one of the main culture groups in Mesoamerica. The Cuyuteca were a Late Postclassic period group, with estimated 12th century arrival in the Xalisco region. From the migration period, and the Cuyuteco language a Uto-Aztecan Nahuatl language, they appear descended from ancient Nahua peoples that originated in Aridoamerica, in the deserts of present-day northwestern Mexico and the southwestern United States.

From the 10th to the 16th centuries, many nomadic tribes hunted game in Jalisco’s central valley. The Cuyuteco Indians lived near the present-day towns of Cuyutlán and Mixtlán, and the Coca occupied the vicinity of Guadalajara. The region extending from Guadalajara northeast to Lagos de Moreno was home to the Tecuexes. It is believed that the Cuyuteco tribe became extinct due to cultural suppression from the Spanish.

Present day
Archaeological sites are in and around the present day towns of Tecolotlán, Tenamaxtlán, Juchitlán, Atengo, and Atenguillo in Jalisco; and Valle de Banderas in Nayarit.

title: Cuyuteco


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User:KenoSarawa

Hi there! This page is a little bit about myself.

My Links:

[mailto:kenosarawa@gmail.com Email]

Deviant Art Page

Live Journal

Chaos Creations (LJ Community)

title: User:KenoSarawa


text:
Afar people

The Afar (Qafár), also known as the Danakil, Adali and Odali, are a Cushitic ethnic group inhabiting the Horn of Africa. They primarily live in the Afar Region of Ethiopia and in northern Djibouti, as well as the entire southern coast of Eritrea. The Afar speak the Afar language, which is part of the Cushitic branch of the Afroasiatic family. Afars are the only inhabitants of the Horn of Africa whose traditional territories border both the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden.

Etymology
The etymology of the term “Dankali” can be traced back to the Afar language and is derived from the words “dan” (meaning “people” or “nation”) and “kali” (referring to the Afar Region). The term has been used for centuries to refer to the Afar people, their language, culture, and way of life. Its usage reflects the Afar people’s sense of pride in their unique identity and their determination to preserve their heritage and way of life in the face of various historical and contemporary challenges.

Early history
The earliest surviving written mention of the Afar is from the 13th-century Andalusian writer Ibn Sa'id, who reports of a people called Dankal, inhabiting an area which extended from the port of Suakin, to as far south as Mandeb, near Zeila.

The Afar are consistently mentioned in Ethiopian records. They are first mentioned in the royal chronicles of Emperor Amda Seyon in a campaign beyond the Awash River. The Afar country was originally known in Ethiopian records as "Adal", a word that was used to denote the area of the lower Awash River to the country north of Lake Abbe, which G.W.B Huntingford describes as a "Danakil state in heavily forested region with permeant water and swamps". The chronicler describes the Afars as being "very tall with ugly faces" and that their hair was plaited like that of women so that it "reached to their waists". The chronicler was greatly impressed by their military prowess, as he states that they were "great fighters", for when they went into battle "they tied the ends of their garments, one man to the next, that they might not flee". They are again mentioned over a century later in the royal chronicles of Emperor Baeda Maryam. According to his chronicler the ruler of the Danakil offered to intervene and help in the Emperor's campaign against their neighbors, the Dobe'a. He sent the Emperor a horse, a mule laden with dates, a shield, and two spears to show his support, along with a message saying, "I have set up my camp, O my master, with the intention of stopping these people. If they are your enemies, I will not let them pass, and will seize them."

According to sixteenth century Portuguese explorer Francisco Álvares, the Kingdom of Dankali was confined by Abyssinia to its west and Adal Sultanate in the east. He also described that the Afar salt trade was extremely lucrative in the area. The mineral he adds, were considered very cheap in the Afar country, but was very valuable by the time it got to Shewa.

Pre-20th century

Afar society has traditionally been organized into independent kingdoms, each ruled by its own Sultan. Among these were the Sultanate of Aussa, Sultanate of Girrifo/Biru, Sultanate of Tadjourah, Sultanate of Rahaito, and Sultanate of Gobaad. In 1577, the Adal leader Imam Muhammed Jasa moved his capital from Harar to Aussa in modern Afar region. In 1647, the rulers of the Emirate of Harar broke away to form their own polity. Harari imams continued to have a presence in the southern Afar Region until they were overthrown in the eighteenth century by the Mudaito dynasty of Afar who later established the Sultanate of Aussa. The primary symbol of the Sultan was a silver baton, which was considered to have magical properties.

The Afar are divided into two subgroups, the Asaimara ("Red Men") and the Adoimara ("White Men"). The Asaimara were regraded as the nobility, whereas the Adoimara were seen as inferior stock. These groups are further subdivided into upwards of 150 sub-tribes, the chief tribe of the Asaimara was the Mudaito in the south, to which the sultan of Aussa belonged to. The Modaitos who occupied the region of the lower Awash, were the most powerful tribe, and no European traversed their territory without claiming the right of hospitality or the brotherhood of blood. Some Afars helped the Europeans by providing, for a fee, the security of Western caravans that circulated between the southern coast of the Red Sea and central Ethiopia. The Afars were also heavily active in the Red Sea slave trade, serving as guides to Arab slave traders. A major slave route to Arabia crossed through Afar country, with Afars reportedly still actively trading in slaves as recently as 1928.

The Afars were consistently viewed as violent and bloodthirsty, and generally had a bad reputation for massacring caravans and expeditions. As Italian explorer L. M. Nesbitt describes: "The Danakils kill any stranger on sight. The taking of a life has become a habit of their nature." In one notable incident, Werner Munzinger, along with his wife, child and a force consisting of 350 soldiers, 2 guns, and 45 camels, arrived in Tadjoura, with their errands being to open up the roads between Ankober and Tadjoura, to enter into communication with King Menelik of Shewa by traversing through the Danakil Desert. On the 14th of November upon reaching Aussa, the Egyptian force was attacked at night by a large number of Afars. The Afar managed massacred their army leaving only a small number left which fled to Tadjoura. Amongst the Egyptian casualties were the leader Munzinger, his wife, and his child.

Towards the end of the 19th century, the sultanates of Raheita and Tadjoura on the coasts of the Red Sea have then colonized between European powers: Italy forms Italian Eritrea with Assab and Massawa, and France the French Somaliland in Djibouti, but the inland Aussa in the south was able to maintain its independence for longer. Even comparatively fertile and located on the Awash River, it was demarcated from the outside by surrounding desert areas. Ethiopia wanted to neutralize Aussa and prevent them from helping the Italians during the course of the First Italo-Ethiopian War in 1895–1896. The show of Abyssinian force dissuaded the Afar sultan Mahammad Hanfare of the Sultanate of Aussa from honouring his treaties with Italy, and instead Hanfare secured a modicum of autonomy within the Ethiopian Empire by accepting Emperor Menelik indirect rule after the war.

20th century
When a modern administrative system was introduced in Ethiopia after the Second World War, the Afar areas controlled by Ethiopia were divided into the provinces of Eritrea, Tigray, Wollo, Shewa and Hararge. Tribal leaders, elders, and religious and other dignitaries of the Afar tried unsuccessfully in the government from 1961 to end this division. Following an unsuccessful rebellion led by the Afar Sultan, Alimirah Hanfare, the Afar Liberation Front was founded in 1975 to promote the interests of the Afar people. Sultan Hanfadhe was shortly afterward exiled to Saudi Arabia. Ethiopia's then-ruling communist Derg regime later established the Autonomous Region of Assab (now called Aseb and located in Eritrea), although low-level insurrection continued until the early 1990s. In Djibouti, a similar movement simmered throughout the 1980s, eventually culminating in the Afar Insurgency in 1991. After the fall of the Derg that same year, Sultan Hanfadhe returned from exile.

In March 1993, the Afar Revolutionary Democratic Front (ARDUF) was established. It constituted a coalition of three Afar organizations: the Afar Revolutionary Democratic Unity Union (ARDUU), founded in 1991 and led by Mohamooda Gaas (or Gaaz); the Afar Ummatah Demokrasiyyoh Focca (AUDF); and the Afar Revolutionary Forces (ARF). A political party, it aims to protect Afar interests. As of 2012, the ARDUF is part of the United Ethiopian Democratic Forces (UEDF) coalition opposition party.

Geographical distribution

The Afar principally reside in the Danakil Desert in the Afar Region of Ethiopia, as well as in Eritrea and Djibouti. They number 2,276,867 people in Ethiopia (or 2.73% of the total population), of whom 105,551 are urban inhabitants, according to the most recent census (2007). The Afar make up over a third of the population of Djibouti, and are one of the nine recognized ethnic divisions (kililoch) of Ethiopia.

Language
Afars speak the Afar language as a mother tongue. It is part of the Cushitic branch of the Afroasiatic language family.

The Afar language is spoken by ethnic Afars in the Afar Region of Ethiopia, as well as in southern Eritrea and northern Djibouti. However, since the Afar are traditionally nomadic herders, Afar speakers may be found further afield.

Together, with the Saho language, Afar constitutes the Saho–Afar dialect cluster.

Religion
Afar people are predominantly Muslim. They have a long association with Islam through the various local Muslim polities and practice the Sunni sect of Islam. The majority of the Afar had adopted Islam by the 13th century due to the expanding influence of holy men and traders from the Arabian peninsula. The Afar mainly follow the Shafi'i school of Sunni Islam. Sufi orders like the Qadiriyya are also widespread among the Afar. Afar religious life is somewhat syncretic with a blend of Islamic concepts and pre-Islamic ones such as rain sacrifices on sacred locations, divination, and folk healing.

Culture
Socially, they are organized into clan families led by elders and two main classes: the asaimara ('reds') who are the dominant class politically, and the adoimara ('whites') who are a working class and are found in the Mabla Mountains. Clans can be fluid and even include outsiders like the (Issa clan).

In addition, the Afar are reputed for their martial prowess. Men traditionally carry the jile, a famous curved knife. They also have an extensive repertoire of battle songs.

The Afar are mainly livestock holders, primarily raising camels but also tending to goats, sheep, and cattle. However, shrinking pastures for their livestock and environmental degradation have made some Afar instead turn to cultivation, migrant labor, and trade. The Ethiopian Afar have traditionally engaged in salt trading but recently Tigrayans have taken much of this occupation.

title: Afar people


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List of companies of the United Arab Emirates

The United Arab Emirates is a country at the southeast end of the Arabian Peninsula on the Persian Gulf.

The economy is the second largest in the Arab world (after Saudi Arabia), with a gross domestic product (GDP) of US$570 billion (2.1 AED trillion) in 2014. Though, United Arab Emirates has been successfully diversifying its economy, the country remains extremely reliant on oil. With the exception of Dubai, most of the UAE is dependent on oil revenues. Petroleum and natural gas continue to play a central role in the economy, especially in Abu Dhabi. More than 85% of the UAE's economy was based on the oil exports in 2009. While Abu Dhabi and other UAE emirates have remained relatively conservative in their approach to diversification, Dubai, which has far smaller oil reserves, was bolder in its diversification policy. In 2011, oil exports accounted for 77% of the UAE's state budget.

Notable firms
This list includes notable companies with primary headquarters located in the country. The industry and sector follow the Industry Classification Benchmark taxonomy. Organizations that have ceased operations are included and noted as defunct.


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Great River Shakespeare Festival

The Great River Shakespeare Festival (GRSF) is a professional equity theatre company in Winona, Minnesota, a Mississippi River town in the southeastern part of the state. Starting in 2004, it has produced several simultaneous performances each summer, held at the Winona State University DuFresne Performing Arts Center, with annual audiences of over 10,000. Its 2024 season runs from June 27 to July 28.

The festival features many art, music, and other events, such as an annual sonnet contest with entries from around the world. Additionally, Company Conversations, a weekly open-to-the-public talkback with company members, are hosted Sundays at Blooming Grounds Coffee House in downtown Winona.

GRSF also offers educational opportunities, especially for youth, including an apprentice/intern production. Youth classes are offered for grades 7-12, titled Shakespeare for Young Actors (SYA), Shakespeare for Young Designers (SYD), and Shakespeare for Young Filmmakers (SYF). SYA began in 2010.

Near the end of every season, GRSF company members produce a one-night performance known as Callithump, "a ridiculously fun, boisterous and wildly entertaining" fundraiser and variety show. Typical acts include singing, skits, an auction, and more. Company members who participate in this show are colloquially known as "Thumpians". Before the show, pre-Callithump is held outside the Performing Arts Center; this often includes a dunk tank and other carnival-esque attractions.

Professional company productions

 * 2004 (debut year): The Winter's Tale and A Midsummer Night's Dream
 * 2005: Richard III and Much Ado About Nothing
 * 2006: Romeo and Juliet and Twelfth Night
 * 2007: Macbeth and As You Like It
 * 2008: The Merchant of Venice and The Taming of the Shrew
 * 2009: The Tempest and Love's Labours Lost
 * 2010: The Comedy of Errors, Othello, and The Daly News
 * 2011: ''Henry IV, Part One, A Midsummer Night's Dream and The Fantasticks
 * 2012: The Two Gentlemen of Verona, King Lear, and The Complete Works of William Shakespeare (Abridged)
 * 2013: Twelfth Night, or What You Will, and King Henry V
 * 2014: The Merry Wives of Windsor, Hamlet, and Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead
 * 2015: Romeo & Juliet, Much Ado About Nothing, and The Glass Menagerie
 * 2016: As You Like It, Julius Caesar, and Georama
 * 2017: The Comedy of Errors, Richard III, Shipwrecked! An Entertainment: The Amazing Adventures of Louis de Rougemont, and An Iliad
 * 2018: All's Well That Ends Well, A Midsummer Night's Dream, Shakespeare in Love, and Venus in Fur
 * 2019: Macbeth, Cymbeline, The Servant of Two Masters adapted by Beth Gardiner, No Child... by Nilaja Sun, and White Rabbit, Red Rabbit
 * 2021: The Tempest, Great Expectations adapted by Gale Childs Daly, and Every Brilliant Thing by Duncan Macmillan and Jonny Donahoe.
 * 2022: Twelfth Night, The African Company Presents Richard III by Carlyle Brown, Always... Patsy Cline, and All the Town's a Stage: A Winona Story
 * 2023: As You Like It, the world premiere of Imbroglio by Melissa Maxwell, and The Winter's Tale
 * 2024: Hamlet and Much Ado About Nothing

Performances by acting apprentices and production interns

 * 2004: As You Like It
 * 2005: Twelfth Night
 * 2006: Cymbeline
 * 2007: Julius Caesar
 * 2008: Pericles
 * 2009: Hamlet
 * 2010: Titus Andronicus
 * 2011: King Lear
 * 2012: All's Well that Ends Well
 * 2013: Macbeth
 * 2014: Troilus and Cressida
 * 2015: King John
 * 2016: Coriolanus
 * 2017: Henry VI
 * 2018: The Merchant of Venice
 * 2019: Love's Labour's Lost.
 * 2021: Romeo and Juliet

Student performances by Shakespeare for Young Actors
* Included designs by Shakespeare for Young Designers
 * 2010: Henry V
 * 2011: The Winter's Tale
 * 2012: As You Like It
 * 2013: Romeo & Juliet
 * 2014: The Tempest
 * 2015: Macbeth
 * 2016: The Comedy of Errors
 * 2017: Hamlet*
 * 2018: Twelfth Night*
 * 2019: Henry V*. Additionally, the festival hosted a performance of The Two Gentlemen of Verona done by the visiting group Shakespearean Youth Theatre.
 * 2020: Shakespeare Everywhere (digital showcase)*
 * 2021: As You Like It*
 * 2022: A Midsummer Night's Dream*
 * 2023: Richard III*
 * 2024: King Lear

Shakespeare for Young Filmmakers short films

 * 2018: Cassandra
 * 2021: Bearly Beloved
 * 2022: Quack

title: Great River Shakespeare Festival


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Wikipedia:Experimental deletion

e X perimental D eletion
Experimental deletion explores new ways to deal with unwanted content on Wikipedia. The objective is to find ways to reduce pressure on Articles for Deletion, and reduce the workload both for administrators and for maintainers. Some related conversation may be found at Deletion reform.

These experiments might try to use only existing mediawiki features, but feel free to try to get code or patches for your personal XD methods accepted into the mediawiki code tree!

For the duration of the experiment, if your XD method makes use of admin deletion, substitute this with listing the page on Articles for Deletion or use the procedures listed under Criteria for Speedy Deletion instead, as appropriate. In this way, wikipedia will be disrupted as little as possible, and old policy will continue to be applied.

When experimenting with any of these models, please remember to revisit and send experimentally deleted pages to WP:AfD or WP:SD. We have promised to keep wikipedia tidy and clean up after ourselves.

Try one of the following systems.

Model summaries

 * 1) XD1 (Example). Just blank it. Then just put some words on to let people know it's not vandalism. Works on any wiki, anytime.
 * 2) Experimental_Deletion/XD2. A sophisticatized version of the above, using templates and cats.
 * 3) Experimental_Deletion/XD3. Simulation by hand of "move content to the trash-can namespace".
 * 4) Experimental_Deletion/XD4. Simulate the Pure Wiki Deletion proposal with a user preferences hack.
 * 5) Experimental_Deletion/XD5 (XD5/Example)
 * 6) *Add template wait N days. Approximation of Uncontested deletions (proposal).
 * 7) *New idea adds additional categories by day.
 * 8) *New idea adds reason parameter to template usage.
 * , Category:XD5, Category:XD5 29 November 2005
 * 1) Experimental_Deletion/XD6 (XD6/Example)
 * 2) *Blank the page, add the template. Approximation of Pure wiki deletion system (proposal).
 * 3) *New message box style without graphic.
 * , Category:XD6
 * 1) Experimental_Deletion/XD7
 * 2) *xd6 variation addressing delay before AfD / further action.
 * 3) Experimental_Deletion/XD8
 * 4) *True page blanking. Primarily for reference and comparison.

Model details
= Proposed Deletion = An experimental deletion system going semi-live! See: Proposed deletion Kim Bruning 23:34, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[ Purge the cache to refresh this page]

= See also =
 * Deletion reform
 * Zap

title: Wikipedia:Experimental deletion


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Talk:Kasper Schmeichel

Untitled
Kasper Schmeichel is a real goalkeeper for a premiership club, but this article is totally made up nonsense. --GraemeL 17:53, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Yup, have re-written and will find its entry on speedy-deletion page and explain Robdurbar 18:05, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

My revert
OK, so the image in the article isn't great, but it is far preferable to a photoshopped composite of questionable copyright status. Oldelpaso (talk) 20:20, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Danish
He does speak Danish right? I mean it says he grew up in England and speaks Portuguese as well (don't know why he speaks the latter but I assume Peter Smeichel married a Brazilian/Portuguese woman) Anyway, i think this article might need to mention he does speak Danish.

He speaks Portuguese because his father played for a Portuguese team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.71.31.139 (talk) 17:47, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Notts County
A very interesting move from Man City to Notts County. Fourth division? Seems that being the oldest club in the world has attracted foreign investment, the fact that Sven has become director of football looks like another of his deals with billionaire middle eastern tycoons. It seems they have high ambitions for the club and obviously aim to be promoted several leagues in the next few years, I can't see otherwise the thinking behind it. Anybody know anything? Dr. Blofeld       White cat 16:28, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't speculate on the motivations of Munto Finance (aside from aiming for the Championship (second tier) within five years), but if you think Schmeichel's move to Notts County is a shock, you might find it interesting to read about Tommy Lawton, a 1940s player for whom then Third Division Notts County broke the national transfer record. Oldelpaso (talk) 09:32, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Height Data
At present, Kasper Schmeichel's height is cited to the PFA. I propose adding a citation from Premier League (1.89m) and switching the display to metres first for the following reasons: Are there any comments or concerns? Michael Glass (talk) 03:07, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It would then be consistent with the usage of Premier League.
 * It would then be consistent with Danish usage. (Kasper Schmeichel is Danish.)
 * Changed as per proposal.Michael Glass (talk) 03:45, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

It is ridiculous to say Schmeichel height is 1.90 even if it says so on FIFA's player listing. He must be exaggerating it. It it has to be referenced by a google search there are many credible hits giving 1.89 and more less than 1.89 than above it. I don't believe he is 1.89 but certainly not taller. Axel147 (talk) 17:32, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I had to revert your change as you left it without a source. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:54, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

 * https://www.premierleague.com/players/2508/Kasper-Schmeichel/overview Axel147 (talk) 20:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kasper Schmeichel


text:
Talk:Cohen

Page creation
I can't find this at Translation into English, but I've put the first sentence into English. It wasn't all that difficult, despite what the project page says. Andrewa 17:54, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Translation from German; cleanup
I translated all the German I found, took out some links (such as to the Paul Cohen (disambiguiation) page which does not exist in the English Wikipedia). IMO the page is now cleaned up to Wikipedia standards. --80.222.74.5 21:27, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Why the bold type?
What's the reason that some names appear in bold typeface? -- Deborahjay 14:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Bold people are very famous person. --Sheynhertzגעשׁ״ך 17:15, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm in the process of removing it, and will sort people by occupation instead of alphabetically as soon as I've added all the descriptions. — Reinyday, 15:58, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Redlinks
If a name appears as a redlink because there's no Wikipedia article for that individual, I suggest the editor who adds it provide a gloss noting who this person is, for the sake of identification. -- Deborahjay 21:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

-- This man ls also a Cohen:

Kun is a form of Cohen.

 * Béla Kun

guidelines
This article is not compliant with the guidelines for disambiguation pages, in particular Disambiguation: "Do not add links that merely contain part of the page title ... Disambiguation pages are not search indices." -- 790 (talk) 14:32, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cohen


text: File:Commonwealth Business Council (logo).jpg