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Talk:List of governors of Indiana

Succession
This article in unbelieveably poor. No only should be there be a comprehensive summary of the position of Governor of the State of Indiana, but there should at a mimimum, be a listing of the line of succession for the role. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.115.155.55 (talk) 17:23, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Why yes, it is poor. I'll get to it when I can. In the meantime, you're free to add stuff. --Golbez (talk) 17:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I think it is fine as a List. The redirect page Governor of Indiana, needs to become it's own article with that information. I can try to do that this week. Charles Edward 01:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Impeachment
Do you think it is notable to add the two impeachments attempts. The legislature attempted to impeach Jonathan Jennings in 1819, but didnt succeed. They addtempted to impeach James B Ray in 1826, also did not suceed. Charles Edward (Talk) 23:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Since they were not removed from office I do not think it is necessary to list it here. It's most relevant and already at Governor of Indiana in the History section. After this, that article would be nice to collaborate on. Reywas92 Talk  23:41, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Discussion
(copied from User talk:Charles Edward)

I have been working on List of Governors of Indiana, which you substantially edited, by expanding the lead, adding images, and adding references. I believe it is getting close to being able to become featured. Could you please take a look at it and make any necessary inprovements? Thanks! Reywas92 Talk 20:32, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If the acting Lieutenant Governors are listed on the Governors list, should we also include them at Lieutenant Governor of Indiana? Reywas92 Talk  22:51, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

 * They are listed in the footnotes there. I only added the rest of them because one was already added. In my sources they are never counted with the elected ones, but are noted. What do you think? Charles Edward (Talk) 23:03, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that they could be included in the table of Lieutenants with a dash rather than a number to denote acting, but they don't necessarily need to be on the Governors list since they weren't official, but it isn't a big deal so we can go with whatever's easiest. We do, however, need to be consistent with the two lists as well as Political party strength in Indiana. Reywas92 Talk  01:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree. And that sounds jsut fine with me. :) I will add them into the Lt. Gov. article like you suggested when I get a chance, or you are welcome to do so. I also agree that we don't need them on the List of Governor article. I just added the rest for consistency. Feel free to remove them. Charles Edward (Talk) 02:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll do it as soon as I can get around to it. Do you have any other suggestions about the Governors list before I nominate it for FL in a few days? Do think I need more references? The problem is that most of the lead is from the Constitutions, which I only refed once for each, and unrefable synthesis. I've modeled what I've done off other featured Gov lists, but not all of them have a separate main article about the Governor so my lead is not as long. Also, the others are inconsistent on refing the Other High Offices; there are the articles it links to, or should I really link every one to the Congress biographies? Thanks! Reywas92 Talk 02:56, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

 * I have a book that I can ref all the footnotes on as well as the other high offices section. I will try to get that in tomorrow sometime. As far as the lead, I don't have a good book for the duties of governor and succession, but I believe there is somewhere on IN.gov where we could find a fair explanation. I would think the constitution is a good source though for explaining his powers and term limits, etc; is there a better authority than the document itself? That might qualify as primary source, but I should think that it is ok in this case. I would definitely have book sources for the previous term limits, etc, and can dig that up tomorrow too. A little better referencing won't hurt. I think it looks pretty good. If we do need it to be a bit longer, I don't see any harm in copying over some info from Governor of Indiana. We could also link all the governor names in the image captions, or de-link them all to be consistent. I wonder if all the red linked Lt. Govs would be something that would hold it back? It is likely most of them will never be made, or at least not in the near future.

 * Earlier this year I went through all governor articles and tried to expand them all a bit. I got some of them pretty good, but others it's hard to find much detail on. Some of the Lt. Govs. it would probably be near impossible to find enough info to get much more than a couple lines of an article. Charles Edward (Talk) 03:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I have made some formatting adjustments, and added some more refs and a tad more info. I created a table from teh top down and moved all the images into it. That way the edit buttons show up right instead of pushing all the way down. (like it did on my firefox). I also added an image of James Whitcomb, he is probably the third most notable governor and an image of him seems appropriate. Let me know what you think. Feel free to change anything back. Charles Edward (Talk) 22:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks for adding those references. Book sources are always nice as well. If you see the history I originally did add links to all the Other Offices, but it was with Template:CongBio, which uses PAGENAME, so I had to revert myself on that; thanks for adding some back in with the cite templates. I can't believe both of us missed my error of listing IN as joining the Union on December 19th rather than 11th; I mistook it because we're the 19th state. I believe all of the term limits are cited already with the constitutions though more can't hurt. I doubt any of the Lt gov redlinks will ever become articles, but the sort template links them automatically.

 * I noticed you had difficulty adding refs to the notes; I had the same but there's a template to fix having a ref within a ref. Those notes, however, refer to multiple governors, so I don't think the book is a catch-all and should really go there. Also, It doesn't look so good with all the images starting at the top, going in and out of the sections. I would put them together as you had them, but still under the Governors header. I have IE so I'm not sure what you mean by pushing the edit button down. If they don't fit we could remove the poor image of Gray. I chose those just because they had another high office or had a distinction (separate terms). Reywas92 Talk  22:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Whatever you think looks best is fine with me. Looks like someone has already moved the images. LOL. The ref I was trying to add is the page with all the footnotes for the Govornor of Indiana list in my book. I does contain notes for all the resignations and deaths. As well as quite a few other things. So it would work for some of them. My is missing the last 20 years of info though.

 * In my firefox, if you have a long string of images, they push all the section "edit" buttons to the bottom of the long string. So all the "edit" links from the top down all show up in the "See Also" section to me, rather than in the sections where they belong. Most users prolly have IE though. Charles Edward (Talk) 23:11, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I redirected all the red linked Lt. Govs to the Lt Gov article. I think that might be better than just red links that will never become anything. Feel free to revert it if you think otherwise. I can't figure out a way to just block the link altogether. Charles Edward (Talk) 00:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's fine with me linking them to the Lt gov list, but List of Lieutenant Governors of Indiana redirects to Lieutenant Governor of Indiana, so either that needs to bypass it, or maybe just be consistent and move the article to the list name. Or maybe create redirects for the people articles to the list; I'm not sure, maybe FLC reviewers or Golbez have a comment. There are still a few mistakes in the templates from what was previously there, but you or I could easily fix them. Reywas92 Talk  01:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Why not make stubs for them? --Golbez (talk) 02:25, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

 * A single sentance is a pretty pointless article I think. Especially when all the information is what is already in the list. If we could find good sources to make articles for them I would be willing to write them, but the ones who have no article already, pretty much have no source from which to write one. I have looked pretty hard. :) Charles Edward (Talk) 03:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Only if the stub article includes significant information other than the fact the person was lieutenant governor. If you can create a nice, informative, sourced little article about these people, please do, otherwise leave it a redlink. I know Charles attempted this before, but he couldn't find enough information. Even the Indiana Historical Bureau's list of Lt govs doesn't have information on them. But it's great if we can have semi-substantive articles on the Lt govs too. Reywas92 Talk  03:02, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yea, I have several Indiana history books too, and the information in there is also scant. Charles Edward (Talk) 03:11, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Standardizing
Here is what is needed to be done to bring it to the current FL standard:

 * 1) Remove the party table. I was responsible for adding these way back when, but in retrospect, they add no information at all; even if the terms were used, instead of governors, it gives no context, etc. The list itself can be used to get this information.
 * 2) Redo main list:
 * 3) Align-center
 * 4) Use colors a la List of Governors of Alabama, using a single tiny cell for color rather than the whole row.
 * 5) Stubbify the redlinks. All lieutenant governors are worthy of an article; IMO, they should not redirect to a list article.
 * 6) Rowspan things. Each lieutenant governor should have its own cell, not commas.
 * 7) This means the table cannot be sortable.
 * 8) General fixes for the other offices table, again see Alabama
 * 9) See also contains irrelevant links, these are in the table or in the footer.
 * 10) IMO, since there is an Indiana Government footer, we can do without the Indiana footer.
 * 11) We need to verify that every lieutenant governor listed was of the same party as the governor. For the post-ticket era, that's simple, but what about ones from before they were elected on the same ticket?

The reason I'm listing these rather than doing them is, I don't want to get stuck in a bunch of edit conflicts. I'll do 'em later. :) -- Golbez (talk) 03:01, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

 * The party of Lt Gov issue is not a big problem, Indiana has always had men run together on the same ticket since the 1831 election. There was no "oranized" parties in the state before 1825, and the only one in the middle was Ray, and he and his LT.Gov where both independent for sure. I can source that if need be. User:TheHoosierState89 has links from the State Library with the same information, I could ask him for them if we need it. I don't think this stuff would be too hard to take care. Charles Edward (Talk) 03:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

1. I see your point, but I think the statistics are noteworthy. Maybe rather than a table at the top something else could be done later in the article involving other info as well
 * It can be handled in text, if at all. --Golbez (talk) 04:15, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

2.1. Will do, though I don't see it as high-importance. 2.2. I had originally preferred the style of Alabama, but now I think I prefer it this way, though that can be done. What I don't want is a separate cell for both the Gov and Lt Gov.
 * What do you mean by 'separate cell'? Like how it's done in Alabama? If the Lt Govs and govs are always the same party then I suppose that can be avoided (and a note made).
 * Yes, like in Alabama. I want only one column of color.

2.3. They should only be articles if they can be substantive. Stubs are not good when they are nothing more than what's already in the list.
 * I disagree; stubs are useful.
 * Only if they are more substantive than "XYZ was Lieutenant Governor of Indiana". That is not useful. There must be more infomation than a few lines that restate the table, and of course there must be multiple references. Make the articles if they will be complete, but not for the sake of creating them.

2.4. This is about the Governor, not the Lieutenant Governor, so it's not that important for each Lt to have his own cell. I think it is important to be able to sort.
 * Aesthetics matter, and they look much better with their own cells...
 * And sorting matters too. I can change it to a break, which is better than commas.

3. Will do. It shouldn't be too difficult. 4. Okay, but should we not have a see also then?
 * What do we need to 'see also'?
 * Okay, then I'll remove them all.

5. Traditionally all navboxes from which an article is linked are included on the article, but I suppose it can be done.
 * I don't think the list of governors is in the Indiana navbox. If it is, then there's an obvious overlap between the two and perhaps the Indiana Government navbox should be merged into the main one.
 * The Indiana box has "previous governors" in it, along with major topics and cities/towns/counties. The Government box has Indiana legislature, all the elected offices, and departments of the government. They are distinct.

6. Comparing this and our list of Lt govs and the IHB's, I did find a few discrepancies, but this shouldn't be hard to too take care of. Along with #1, I just don't want two columns of cells and colors going crazy. However, this is a list of governors, so we are listing the gov with his party and the gov with his lt. Unlike Alabama, they are on the same ticket, so even though there's a couple differences between the gov's and lt's party, only one column should be used here.

I based my development of the list off other similar FLs, and I don't think all of this is necessarily required for FL, but thank you very much for you comments and we will do what we can to make this one of Wikipedia's best works! Reywas92 Talk 03:37, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Having had to fight to bring these lists to FL, I know pretty much what is needed for FL. I also know what is needed before I will vote for one. :)

Also, I'm not really sure what you did with the images. Now there's the Governors header followed by a huge amount of white space with a stack of images on the side and and tables not starting until the end of them. It worked fine for me previously, though Charles had a problem. There mustbe something that works for all. Reywas92 Talk 03:37, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I used 'upright' and moved them over to the side; upright is much preferable to forcing a particular size. There's no way to make a layout that's aesthetically pleasing for everyone. Also, one to add to the above: Changing the Notes column to a Terms column. --Golbez (talk) 04:15, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I must say no to this one. I realize there is a note that they are not literal, but they are just wrong. And for Indiana, terms were originally three years but later four. And what would the 2-dayer say? IMO These are just confusing, incorrect, and unnecessary. And they can also be determined directly from the table, just as you said for the party table.
 * Benefits to a Terms column: There's no empty cells, like there are with a notes column; it's immediately apparent (and sortable, if possible) which governors were elected multiple times, and which served partial terms; it gives a good jumping off point to have a note, since every half term needs to be documented, but that's not immediately obvious with a table just listing start and end dates. I was against it when it was first introduced but rapidly grew to like it. --Golbez (talk) 17:39, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

 * About the images, what's wrong with the captions? It is appropriate to include the order of office as well as others held. There is surely some way to fix the stacking for all. This way has five screens' length of white space and the pics on the right for all three computers I tried, and the text doesn't begin until after the last one. Or what if the images were within the table? Reywas92 Talk  17:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The captions went a little too detailed, I think; governor during the Civil War is easily seen in the table; 'current senator' makes us have to monitor yet another article in case of a chance in senate membership; and perhaps the bankrupcy is a major issue in local history but I've certainly never heard major bits about it, so I trimmed it. If it is such a major issue then include it. I was originally going to say "only list major, major offices" but I've in the past listed occupations such as first mayor of San Francisco, and commissioner of Major League Baseball, so there's obviously some leeway there. As for the stacking, the white space was caused because of broken image captions :P The div is necessary to put the edit links where they properly belong. Images within the table are not going to get you through FLC unless every entry has an image. --Golbez (talk) 17:39, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * There were never more than two things, so I don't think they were too detailed. I trust that this will be updated when Bayh leaves the Senate, which may not be for many years. I didn't know much about the bankruptcy either - Charles added it - but that's why it's listed. Thanks for fixing my ]] error, but they still don't look good. I'll try a little experimenting still with the div then. Actually, five huge lists of Nobel laureates recently passed, and they were all half and half about images, though adding them would be a lot more work. Thanks Reywas92 Talk  18:07, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Re the bankruptcy issue, yes it is probably the third or fourth biggest event in the history of the state, after the depression, civil war, and maybe the battle of tippecanoe. It was a huge debacle at the time and contributed to the destruction of the Whig party in the state, which was also a contributing factor to it's national weakening and collapse. It's importance of course is my POV. :) I wrote Indiana Mammoth Internal Improvement Act about it. Charles Edward (Talk) 21:12, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for centering everything Reywas92. I knew there had to be an easier way. That is what was meant my centering table by the notes above I hope. :) Charles Edward (Talk) 02:18, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

LT. Gov Party Labels
I don't think we need to separate the Lt Gov. Party labels from teh governor. The only discrepancies are ratliff boon and John H. Thompson. But - in that period there were no party labels in state. As in, when they were elected, they did not list a party on the ballot. Everyone was the same party, just different factions of the same party. []. The only other discrepancy I notice was when Paris C. Dunning (democrat) was acting lt. governor during the term of Oliver Morton (republican) - but that is not listed here. Charles Edward (Talk) 00:30, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

 * re Lt Govs, this column should not be sortable, as it includes two pieces of information, and thus only the first would be sortable. --Golbez (talk) 00:32, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

 * How can you make just one column "un-sortable"? Is there some code we could put on that column to keep it from working? Or maybe is there a way to make the table plain, and then just certain columns sortable. I am not terribly familiar with wiki code, so any pointer would be appreciated. :) Charles Edward (Talk) 01:08, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

 * "style=unsortable" in the column head, I think. --Golbez (talk) 07:45, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Terms Column
I am ok with putting the terms into columns, but I think we should decide how to do it first. I don't think it is a good idea to just put half terms, because that is a bit misleading in most the cases. Lane was governor for 2 days, half term is an overstatment. Morton resigned just a couple monthes before his term was over, so saying half term is cutting him short almost two years. Also, the terms were originally three years, and now they are four. I think it would be better to list days in office, or years and days in office - if we are going to add that column. What do you think? Charles Edward (Talk) 00:30, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Days maybe, but the fractional terms also let you easily see who shared an elected term. I see no problem whatsoever giving a 1/2 or 1/3 or whatever to a 2 day term; the point is to indicate not the length of the term, but who shared it with the elected governor. --Golbez (talk) 01:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

K I added it. I noticed the terms of Mcnutt and is succesor overlap. I don't have my book in front of me, so I am not sure what is correct. If someone can look that up before me please correct it. :) I also calcuted the days in office by what was in the terms column, so will need fixed too.

I added the term lengths too using this site to calcute the days. I think it worked. Feel free to revert if you don't like it. Charles Edward (Talk) 02:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Funny, even M. Clifford Townsend lists his Lt and Gov terms overlapping. I'll see what I can find. The term lengths are great. Thanks! For some reason however, when they are sorted they are listed alphabetically with all the 1s then 2s first, not numerically. I'll look for a solution for that. I also corrected Schricker as also being 8 years 4 days; it was a few days shorted than that. Reywas92 Talk  02:49, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It is the ref tags that is causing it. I removed them all out on a test edit, and it allows them to sort numerically. It must be forcing alphabetical because it is detecting letters in the field. Wonder if there is a fix? Charles Edward (Talk) 01:20, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I gotta say, I don't like the days, for two reasons. One, it clutters up things that could be more easily handled with an abstract term number; two, it's a simple extrapolation from the date, and thus doesn't really add any information to the table; and three, it requires constant updating to keep the incumbent up to date, or a simple 'we give up' dash or something. Also, were leap years and non-leap years (1900) taken into account? The page you link seems to understand that 1900 wasn't a leap year... but it also seems to think 2000 wasn't, either. --Golbez (talk) 00:32, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

 * No, I am unsure that it counted the leap years, I suspected that perhaps it did not but have not had time to look at it in detail. I could not find any other utility that would calculate before the year 1971. I will try to hunt down something now. Although I do agree that putting the number of terms would look neater and present better, it is splitting the partial terms where I am concerned. I think it would be fairly misleading to simply put terms into half or quarter fractions. Is there any other alternative? I also checked my book and the date Reywas put in for the overlap is correct. Thanks! Charles Edward (Talk) 01:06, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

 * I checked it and leap years were not counted. I went through and added the leap days to the terms were needed. Charles Edward (Talk) 02:45, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Did you omit 1900's non-leap day? --Golbez (talk) 06:34, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

 * I had not thought of that! Thanks for pointing it out. I have corrected it. Charles Edward (Talk) 14:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Left to do
From Golbez's comments, I believe there are only two things left to do. One is to change the party color from a background to a column. Other FLs use backgrounds, but I can change them. I'm really not sure which I like better. Second is to add a terms column. I still don't like it, but it can be added, though in addition to the days. If refs are moved to the column with terms, then the problem of sorting the days is solved. And the numbers Charles had were correct in the first place. I calculated some of them myself and the new numbers added one for the leap years, but they were already there. I may be able to start that tomorrow, otherwise after Friday when school is out. Reywas92 Talk 23:33, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I have done both of those. Didn't take as long as I thought it would :). Please double-check my work and let me know what you think. I guess I was overzealous before, but now I really think the list is ready to take to WP:FLC. Reywas92 Talk  01:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

The terms are supposed to be abstract; by trying to turn something abstract into something appearing closer to reality, I think you're making it much harder to understand. I speak of course of the 1/8th terms being given out to a couple of governors, not to mention the pluses... The problem here is, how to illustrate a half term, with the successor being elected and leaving in his next term, and having a successor. 1/2 + (1/2 + 1/2) + 1/2, but you can't very well say 1/2 + 1 + 1/2, because the middle guy didn't serve a full term. I'll see if I can find examples of this in my other lists to see if I've dealt with this problem. ...

okay, I found one on Arkansas: Bill Clinton served 3 full terms, then resigned midway through his 4th. So he was given 3 1/2. Jim Guy Tucker took over, so he gets 1/2. He was then elected. But he resigned midway through his next term. So I split the difference and gave him 3/4. So then comes Mike Huckabee, replacing Tucker, and he's elected to two further terms. So I gave him 2 3/4. They add up - we have 3 1/2 + 3/4 + 2 3/4 = 7 terms total. And that's exactly how many they were elected to, all told. Four for Clinton, one for Tucker, and two for Huckabee. It's not the cleanest solution ever, but combined with healthy footnoting I think it works better than this. I'll throw in a dummy edit of how I think the terms should look just to illustrate it, then revert, but I think the way this is now, it's needlessly complicating matters. The terms is a mere illustration, an abstract figure to explain simply some of the passages, with footnotes explaining just what was up. I don't think we're doing a service to the reader by being needlessly detailed in this wholly abstract column. --Golbez (talk) 03:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

 * If you had not just explained that to me, I would have no idea that is what was meant by the terms on the Arkansas page. I think our readers would be misled or confused by this system. Especially one man who served during two terms, but was listed as serving less than one term. If we do put it footnote on each instance of a partial term with an explanation, I think it would be ok though. Charles Edward (Talk) 20:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Whatever you think is best, though it should not be too abstract. I knew that ⅞+1+½ for Morton looks very strange, but I put it there anyway because it's a little more literal than 2⅜. He only served one full term plus some on either side, so it shouldn't be 2 plus some. For Ray and Baker, it's to show that they inherited the end of the previous term rather than that it was an extension of their full terms. And yes, every one with a fraction has a note. Reywas92 Talk  22:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * But the way it is now, you're trying too hard. Especially the 1/8 vs 7/8 one; as a reader who might be confused by Arkansas, that would confuse me; why is this one 1/8? 2 days is much less than 1/8! --Golbez (talk) 22:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Then what should I say? 1/730? 1/2 or even 1/4 is an even bigger overstatement. This is why I didn't really like a terms column, though I do see the usefulness of comparing some of them. But there's the 3 year- vs. 4 year-term as well! Reywas92 <sup style="color:#45E03A;">Talk  22:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and nominated the list at WP:FLC at Featured list candidates/List of Governors of Indiana. I invite you both to co-nominate. Reywas92 <sup style="color:#45E03A;">Talk 17:03, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Complaints
I was out of town during most of the FLC, and I conommed because I do think it's FL quality, but I think it could be better. My complaints:
 * 1) The picture at the top. Why not the current governor? This is not a huge complaint, though.
 * I like having all the people photos together. This is a list of all governors, not just the current, so I think a more general photo is more appropriate for the lead.

 * 1) The lieutenant governors.
 * 2) Stubs. There should not be blacklinks here. They're notable. They can be stubs.
 * We have addressed this already. They can be stubs only if they are actually useful, not just "Name was lieutenant governor of Indiana from year to year under governor." If you would like to research them I invite you to, but even the Indiana Historical Bureau site doesn't have profiles on them.

 * 1) Each one, IMO, should have its own cell. Yes, this renders the table unsortable. No, I don't think it matters.
 * IMO, sorting is important; readers can look at the govs alphabetically, or grouped by party, or by shortest to longest time in office. I know someone has delveloped an excellent way to sort rowspans, and hopefully it will be implemented soon. User:Tcncv/Table Sort Demo

 * 1) Days. I don't think this really helps, and it clutters up the table. It's easy to see who served a partial term with the terms column; if someone is truly interested in how long the term is, they can do the simple math. This is my biggest issue with the list.
 * Some people aren't so good at math. There is List of United States Presidents by time in office, so the information should be included. State governors just shouldn't have a separate list.

 * 1) Terms. My complaints here are no secret; I think you're trying to be too smart by half by trying to be "accurate" with fractions that are supposed to be wholly abstract. I'm referring to the 1/8 term. That should be 1/2, to fit with the other styles. The whole point of the terms column is to easily indicate which terms were partial; not to try to give some fake accuracy to the concept. The plus system, I can deal with later.
 * I'm not trying to be "accurate", otherwise it would say 1/730. I understand that it should be abstract, but 1/2 is a bit off. Can I call his very short term 1/3? Things that are supposed to be general are often taken too literally. If the sole purpose is to say their term was not complete, then that's what the notes are for. I may have gone to far with the pluses (½+1 rather than 1½), but I don't want to say Morton served 2½ terms when he was only served one full term.

Should I give up? I just don't think there is a big enough consensus, at this point, to switch from my preferred format to the one used in this list. --Golbez (talk) 23:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't necessarily give up, but you can't have it a certain way all the time; we should compromise somewhere. Maybe some lts did other things that make them more notable, but a sufficient article can't be made for every running mate in history. Some people may not find term lengths as interesting as others. I did do excessive plussing in the terms though. Maybe Charles would like to comment again. Reywas92 <sup style="color:#45E03A;">Talk  02:29, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Having run into a horrific situation on the Connecticut list (three governors died in a row, and all of their successors were elected to further terms), I must withdraw my objection to "1 + ½" et.al., as that's the only method to adequately describe such issues. However, I still think there's no point in using ⅛. =p --Golbez (talk) 22:00, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

List of Governors Standards.
Consensus was reached among other governor editors on what the "standard" should be. Golbez, Designate and me were among the editors discussing it. If you feel Indiana should be an outlier, then reach consensus among the other editors that Indiana should stay as is. I will follow what the group decides. Otherwise the page should stay as is until then. Bgwhite (talk) 23:11, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Regarding the infobox... The infobox is meant for quick look at information. In almost all cases, the information in the infobox is also in the article.  When a person comes to the article, they can quickly see who is governor and important facts. Bgwhite (talk) 23:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

 * We don't have a consensus, though. Golbez and I have disagreed on many points. I'm not a huge fan of the "standard" we've been using and I don't want to push it on articles that are already in good shape. It's just a guideline at best.

 * With regards to the link/infobox: In theory, every state can have two articles, one list of governors and one article on the office of governor (its history, powers, significance, etc.). See President of the United States and List of Presidents of the United States for the general idea. We do this with almost every national head of state, and some subnational governments as well (Premier of Ontario and List of Premiers of Ontario, for example). So it can be done for US governors.

 * But we should only have separate articles if there is enough written about the office of governor to justify it. For most states, there isn't enough written (yet). So we effectively combine them into the list article. That's why most governor lists have the opening bolded instead of linked, because there's nothing to link to. If a separate article on the position exists, then the list should link to it. Governor of Indiana is a good article and there's plenty written about it, so it should certainly be linked.

 * Now, if the main article exists, and it has an infobox, then the list doesn't need one. There's no need to recap all that trivia from the main article. The infobox doesn't really have anything to do with the list, after all. —Designate (talk) 00:25, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I personally didn't want to get involved in this until I got to the article; I was happy to let the existing FLs lie while I worked my way down the alphabet. I still pretty much feel that way. That said, I agree about the infobox. The list of Presidents of the United States doesn't have an infobox (And, personally, I don't think this particular infobox adds anything whatsoever to the articles its in. It's not like it's a clearing house for information like a country infobox; it contains 4 or so tidbits that are easily found in the text: The name of the current governor and how long he's been in office (end of the list), the style (not terribly relevant), term length (in the prose), residence (that's about it, but that's more relevant for the article on the office rather than the list), 'formation' and inaugural (first entry in list), deputy (check end of list), and salary (again, not sure this is needed).) As for the rest of the style issues, I'm willing to let that lie for another time. We have, what, 15 featured articles in this set? That leaves 35 to go. I have no doubt styles will morph between now and Wyoming. The only time I've really raised a stink was when I got to Delaware (I do enjoy going alphabetically), which was the first featured governor list and had a very outdated style. --Golbez (talk) 12:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Political Parties of Territorial Governors
I noticed that it didn't mention political parties for these people. Is that because they didn't have any?

65.214.67.173 (talk) 05:50, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Territorial governors were appointed, not elected, so their party was irrelevant. They weren't nominated or declared for any party. --Golbez (talk) 15:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

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title: Talk:List of governors of Indiana


text: Category:Scholarships

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Scholarships


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Music Directory

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. [[smoddy ]] 20:05, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Music Directory
Blatant advertising. --Ryan Delaney talk 13:30, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions.   -- Cyberjunkie | Talk 05:05, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete as spam. --Several Times 13:46, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per submitter. Blatant advertising. No Alexa ranking. --GraemeL (talk) 13:50, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator. You can't get it more blatant than this. - Mgm|(talk) 17:37, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete ad/spam. -- Etacar11   02:37, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: blatant, indeed.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 05:05, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - advert - Tεx  τ  urε  16:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Pomeroon-Supenaam

Pomeroon-Supenaam (Region 2) is a region of Guyana. It borders the Atlantic Ocean to the north, the region of Essequibo Islands-West Demerara to the east, the region of Cuyuni-Mazaruni to the south and the region of Barima-Waini to the west. Pomeroon-Supenaam contains the town of Anna Regina and the villages of Charity, Pickersgill, Spring Garden and Suddie. In 2012, an Official Census by the Government of Guyana listed the population of the Pomeroon-Supenaam Region at 46,810.

There are three lakes on the Essequibo Coast - Capoey, Mainstay and Hot and Cold. Capoey is near Anna Regina. The three lakes symbolize three of the standard elements, with earth being represented by the land.

Population
The Government of Guyana has administered three official censuses since the 1980 administrative reforms, in 1980, 1991 and 2002. In 2002, the population of Pomeroon-Supenaam was recorded at 49,253 people. Official census records for the population of the Pomeroon-Supenaam region are as follows:

 * 2012 : 46,810
 * 2002 : 49,253
 * 1991 : 43,455
 * 1980 : 42,341

Communities
(including name variants):

 * Aberdeen
 * Abrams Zuil
 * Adventure
 * Affiance
 * Akawini Mission
 * Amazon
 * Andrews
 * Anna Regina
 * Annandale
 * Aurora
 * Bethany
 * Better Hope
 * Better Success
 * Bounty Hall
 * Bush Lot
 * Capoey
 * Charity
 * Columbia
 * Cullen
 * Danielstown
 * Dartmouth
 * Devonshire Castle
 * Dryshore
 * Fair Field
 * Fear Not
 * Golden Fleece (Golden Fleece Plantation)
 * Hackney
 * Hampton Court
 * Henrietta
 * Hibernia
 * Huis'T Dieren
 * Jacklow
 * Johanna Cecilia
 * Kabakaburi
 * La Belle Alliance
 * Land of Plenty
 * Lima Sands
 * Mainstay/Whyaka
 * Maria's Lodge
 * Middlesex
 * Onderneeming
 * Perseverance
 * Perth
 * Pomona
 * Queenstown
 * Reliance
 * Richmond
 * Saint Nicholas (Saint Nicholas Mission)
 * Sirikie
 * Somerset and Berks
 * Sparta
 * Spring Garden
 * St. Monica Karawab
 * Suddie
 * Supenaam
 * Taymouth Manor
 * Three Friends
 * Wakapau Village
 * Walton Hall
 * Windsor Castle
 * Zorg

Territorial claim
Venezuela has renewed its claim to the Essequibo region which is situated west of the Essequibo river. The status of the border controversy is subject to the Geneva Agreement, which was signed by the United Kingdom, Venezuela and British Guiana on February 17, 1966.

title: Pomeroon-Supenaam


text: Category:Ampakines

title: Category:Ampakines


text:
Talk:Samuel Bigger

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Nokalakevi

Nokalakevi (ნოქალაქევი) also known as Archaeopolis  (Ἀρχαιόπολις, "Old City") and Tsikhegoji (in Georgian "Fortress of Kuji") and according to some sources "Djikha Kvinji" in Mingrelian, is a village and archaeological site in the Senaki municipality, Samegrelo-Zemo Svaneti region, Georgia.

History
Located by the Tekhuri River, on the northern edge of the Colchian plain in Samegrelo, western Georgia, lie the ruins of Nokalakevi. Occupying approximately 20ha, the site was known to early Byzantine historians as Archæopolis, and to the neighbouring Georgian (Kartlian) chroniclers as Tsikhegoji, or the fortress of Kuji — a Colchian ruler or eristavi. The fortress is located 15 km from the modern town of Senaki on the Martvili road, and would have commanded an important crossing point of the river Tekhuri, at the junction with a strategic route that still winds through the neighbouring hills to Chkhorotsqu in central Samegrelo. Nokalakevi-Archaeopolis played a part in the major wars fought between the Byzantines and Sasanians in the South Caucasus during the sixth century AD. It was one of the key fortresses guarding Lazika (modern Mingrelia) from Sasanian, Persian and Iberian (East Georgian/Kartlian) attack. During the war of AD 540-562, the Persians' failure to take Nokalakevi-Archaeopolis from the Byzantines and the Laz eventually cost them control of Lazika.

The early Byzantine defensive fortifications of Nokalakevi-Archaeopolis take advantage of the site's position within a loop of the river Tekhuri, which has carved a gorge through the local limestone to the west of the fortress. The steep and rugged terrain to the north of the site made the citadel established there almost unassailable. A wall connected this 'upper town' to the 'lower town' below, where excavations have revealed stone buildings of the fourth to sixth century AD. Beneath these late Roman period layers there is evidence of several earlier phases of occupation and abandonment, from the eighth to second centuries BC.

Archaeological work at the site
Modern study of the site began in the decades before the formal Russian annexation of Samegrelo, with a visit by the Swiss philologist Frédéric Dubois de Montpéreux in 1833-4. He identified the ruins as the Archaeopolis of Byzantine historians and argued that the site was Aia, the ancient Colchian capital of the Greek Argonaut myth. This stimulated scholarly interest, which culminated in the 1920s with proposals for an archaeological excavation. In the winter of 1930-31, a joint German-Georgian team, led by Dr Alfonse-Maria Schneider of Freiburg University, traced the line of the walls and excavated about 40 survey trenches and one of the towers, as well as what they erroneously believed to be the agora in the 'lower' town. Their findings — including a hoard of gold solidi of the Emperor Maurice (AD 584-602) — confirmed Dubois de Montpéreux's identification of the site with Archaeopolis, without settling the question of Aia. Most scholars continued (and continue) to prefer the traditional identification of Aia with Kutaisi.

The political upheavals of the 1930s and the onset of war interrupted further archaeological excavation. Nevertheless, interest in Georgia's history continued to grow, prompting various scholarly visits and articles about Nokalakevi from the 1930s to the 1960s (see for a discussion of previous work at Nokalakevi). Finally in 1973 a major state-sponsored expedition was set up, headed by Parmen Zakaraia. This expedition undertook major excavations and conservation work at Nokalakevi until the early 1990s when the collapse of the Soviet Union and the civil disturbances of Georgia's early years of independence brought a halt to funding and serious damage to the expedition's infrastructure

Large-scale excavations were resumed in 2001 with a collaborative project, founded by Professor David Lomitashvili, of the S. Janashia State History Museum (now the Georgian National Museum) and Ian Colvin of Cambridge University. Since then Professor Lomitashvili has been appointed Deputy Director of the National Agency for Cultural Heritage Preservation of Georgia, and Dr Nikoloz Murgulia became the head of the Georgian National Museum's Nokalakevi Expedition. The British side of the Anglo-Georgian Expedition to Nokalakevi (AGEN) is co-directed by Ian Colvin and Dr Paul Everill and celebrated its twentieth anniversary in 2020.

title: Nokalakevi


text:
Talk:Ratliff Boon

Buffalo
I reverted several edits indicating Boon's affinity for buffalo. I am think that is probably vandalism.. Is there a source for any of that? Charles Edward (Talk) 23:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC

Firearms Project ?!
Why in the world is Boon's article included in this project? He was apprenticed for a couple of years to a gunsmith in Kentucky, and then quit. He never had anything further to do with firearms in his life -- except insofar as every male on the frontier possessed a rifle and many blacksmiths and other technical types repaired them (including several of my own Indiana forebears). And he shot wolves for the bounty. And that's it? If this faint connection is sufficient to include him in this project, then the project would have to include all U.S. military officers & soldiers about whom there are articles -- in fact, everyone who lived on the American frontier, from Jamestown on. Ridiculous. -- Michael K Smith Talk 16:25, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Ratliff Boon


text: Talk:Lake Koshkonong, Wisconsin

title: Talk:Lake Koshkonong, Wisconsin


text:
Talk:Lake Ripley, Wisconsin

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Talk:Ira Joy Chase

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text:
Talk:Lake Shangrila, Wisconsin

Location
Based on the boundaries on Google maps, the Lake Shangrila CDP was located around 50% in Bristol and 50% in Salem. Should this article be changed to say that is was in both the town of Bristol and the town of Salem? Or should it remain the way it is. NintendoTTTEfan2005 (talk) 02:03, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lake Shangrila, Wisconsin


text:
File:Stargatesg1diallingcomputer.jpg

A screenshot from the science fiction television series Stargate . See also Stargate.

Rationale for fair use in Stargate (device)
Although this image is subject to copyright, the editors of Wikipedia, among them myself (Alfakim) in particular, feel that it is covered by US fair use laws because:
 * It is a low resolution still image;
 * It does not limit the copyright owner's rights to sell the related product in any way

Further, we believe our use of the image is fair because it is not being used merely to decorate the related article, but rather:
 * Aids commentary by illustrating the subject matter
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title: File:Stargatesg1diallingcomputer.jpg


text:
Talk:Paris C. Dunning

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text: Talk:Lake Wazeecha, Wisconsin

title: Talk:Lake Wazeecha, Wisconsin


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Twenty twenty skateboards

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. [[smoddy ]] 20:04, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Twenty twenty skateboards
nn spam --Ryan Delaney talk 13:33, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete per submitter. No Alexa ranking. --GraemeL (talk) 13:52, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per GraemeL. - Mgm|(talk) 17:40, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - not notable - Tεx  τ  urε  16:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - Looks like a normal stub article to me. 212.101.64.4 16:37, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - Looks like a normal stub article to me. 212.101.64.4 16:37, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User:Déaglán~enwiki

Hello, i'm Déaglán, and i live in Belfast in Northern Ireland at the at present. I'm originally from England and speak English as a first language. Now, i'm learning Irish, and i hope that i'll be fluent begore too long. I also have a small knowledge of French and Spannish.

ga:Úsáideoir:Déaglán

title: User:Déaglán~enwiki


text: Talk:Legend Lake, Wisconsin

title: Talk:Legend Lake, Wisconsin


text: Talk:Little Round Lake, Wisconsin

title: Talk:Little Round Lake, Wisconsin


text:
Talk:Frank Hanly

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Talk:Thomas A. Hendricks

U. S. Currency
Edited this section. Thomas Jefferson appears on the $2 bill and served as Vice President prior to becoming president.

Death
How did he die? Mdotley 01:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Disambig Thomas Hendricks
I would like to disambig the article Thomas Hendricks. And have it link to both Thomas A. Hendricks and Thomas Hendricks Sr (Thomas Andrew's Uncle, a senator and congressman and prominent Hoosier). If there are no objections I will do that tomorrow. Cool10191 (talk) 12:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

 * I decided against a disambig since T A Hendricks is far more notable than his uncle, however I have added a DAB to the top of the page for clarification. Charles Edward 22:26, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Questions
The New York Times reported on 11/26/1885 that Hendricks died around 5:00 p.m., not "that night." Also, the NYT reported on 12/1/1885 that President Cleveland did not attend the funeral. Apparently Congressional leaders heard about a death threat against Cleveland and convinced him not to attend. The NYT stated that former Pres. Hayes attended the funeral. Chronicler3 (talk) 01:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

If you have sources, please feel free to update the information and cite them, or link to the sources here and I would be glad to do that. Charles Edward 01:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

 * My sources are the New York Times online database for 11/26/1885 and 12/1/1885. However, I think it would be good to allow others to give sources for the information that is currently in the article in case it is based on better information. Chronicler3 (talk) 11:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I just searched a newspaper online database. There are 200 newspaper articles from around the nation on Hendricks's death and funeral. Most have similar information; the following are some samples.

 * The Rocky Mountain News in Denver CO and the Boston Daily Advertiser stated on 11/26/1885 that Hendricks died at 4:45 p.m. The New York Freeman said on 11/28/1885 that Hendricks died at 5:00 p.m.

 * The St. Louis Globe-Democrat stated on 12/3/1885 that President Cleveland's "excuse for staying away [from the funeral] has certainly given foreign critics an excellent opportunity for unfavorable comment..." The Rocky Mountain News stated on 12/2/1885 that a U.S. Senator delivered a letter of condolences from President Cleveland to Hendricks's widow. Chronicler3 (talk) 11:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

thomas hendricks respiratory therapist
aka tommy guns —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.254.5.226 (talk) 02:08, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

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does this really belong here?
"It is unknown who was the president at the time of his vice presidency and that's why this article doesn't specify it. If only there was information going back that far."

that wouldn't even be acceptable in a junior high essay — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:642:4002:5490:64E1:FACF:989F:27F0 (talk) 01:35, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

ME!
I happen to be his older brother's descendant! Not really a fact, but interesting. 206.51.99.188 (talk) 19:52, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Thomas A. Hendricks


text:
Talk:William Hendricks

Hendrick's spouse
Actually, I found the article to be rather well detailed & complete, with the exception of the 3rd paragraph under Early Life. Intriguing as it might have been, William (nmi) Hendricks, the father of Willim (nmi) Hendricks, Jr., is not the same as William H. Hendricks, whose son, William H. Hendricks, Jr. married into relatives of the Benge clan of the Cherokee. Curiously enough, Dennis Pennington, mentioned in this article, was married to Elizabeth, who had been captured by the Indians, & was held as a prize by the war chief, Benge, before returning to her own people, but I digress. Suffice it to say, Gov. Hendricks married Ann Parker Paul, daughter of Col. Paul, founder of Madison. Hearing no other discussion, I will hereby submit my edit. OG1820
 * I checking the sources on the original entry (Hendricks being married to suzanna a cherokee) I have found you are indeed correct. There was a William Hendricks married to a cherokee but he lived in Georgia and was born in NC, clearly indicated he is not the William Hendricks of this topic. Charles Edward 13:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:William Hendricks


text:
Talk:Alvin Peterson Hovey

Pronunciation
Anybody know how to pronounce his surname? My guess would be to rhyme it with lovey-dovey, but it could be the O is long. Q·L·1968 ☿ 19:17, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

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Talk:Middle Village, Wisconsin

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Talk:Edward L. Jackson

Fair use rationale for Image:Gov Ed Jackson2.jpg
Image:Gov Ed Jackson2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Was Jackson a Klan member? historians find no evidence for that
Jackson never said he belonged to the Klan. The leading historians of the Klan Indiana say that he took a $2500 bribe from Klan leader Stephenson, but they did not say that Jackson was ever a member. see Citizen Klansmen: The Ku Klux Klan in Indiana, 1921-1928 by Leonard J. Moore and Indiana Through Tradition and Change: A History of the Hoosier State by James H. Madison. The latter book states clearly that the Klan effort to pass legislation in Indiana in 1925 "ended in nearly total failure." – and that the Catholic newspaper praised the legislature: "The honor of Indiana, as a home of religious liberty has been redeemed by the Legislature of 1925." Madison pages 67-68 Rjensen (talk) 16:00, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

I do not appreciate the tone of the Klan section. It's almost designed to tone down his affiliation as much as possible without regard to all of the facts. I will post more references to give it greater balance "Jackson’s relationship with the Klan was soon problematic for him, and whether he became an active member remains in dispute. Jackson certainly could be found in the company of Klansmen, and he actively supported Klan approved agenda in the state capital. While still Secretary of State Jackson attempted to bribe the governor to appoint Klan members to various non-elected but influential positions in the state government. The amount of the bribe was $23,000, the source of the money was the state Klan organization, and the governor was a multimillionaire who rejected both because the action or the amount – historians aren’t sure which – offended his sensibilities." Larry Holzwarth - October 3, 2017 --Thedeatils (talk) 12:53, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Neopit, Wisconsin


text:
Talk:Jonathan Jennings

Portrait?
Can we not find a better-quality picture? User:70.239.90.226 00:50 September 8, 2006

 * I got it from a 1909 book. If you can find a better one, go ahead.  I looked and couldn't find one.--Bedford 00:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

http://www.statelib.lib.in.us/www/ihb/govportraits/jennings.html http://www.centerforhistory.org/images/indhistpics/jennings.jpgUser:70.239.90.226 September 8, 2006

The problem is that the images must be free-use. The current pic is, as it was pre-1923. Those look too modern to be, and thus we can't use them. Yes, I know that's ridiculous and I agree, but someone would remove them. For now, we are stuck with the current.--Bedford 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I imagine the portraits on the State Historical Bureau website are in the public domain, since many of them were painted in the 19th century. In fact, many of the portraits shown in articles for early Indiana governors also appear in the Historical Bureau's Gallery.

Reference correction
The Notes section references the Randy Mills biography on Jennings; not "Miller", so I'll correct all the references for Miller as I copyedit this. I'll also fix the reference to "Keith Mills" - it should be Randy Mills instead.Rosalina523 (talk) 19:32, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jonathan Jennings


text: User:Lexos~enwiki

title: User:Lexos~enwiki


text:
Bright Leaf

Bright Leaf is a 1950 American Drama Western film directed by Michael Curtiz and starring Gary Cooper, Lauren Bacall and Patricia Neal. It is adapted from the 1949 novel of the same name by Foster Fitz-Simons. The title comes from the type of tobacco grown in North Carolina after the American Civil War. According to Bright Leaves, a 2003 documentary film by Ross McElwee, the plot is loosely based on the rivalry of tobacco tycoons Washington Duke and John Harvey McElwee, the filmmaker's great-grandfather.

Plot
Brant Royle (Gary Cooper) returns to his hometown, (fictional) Kingsmont, North Carolina, to settle his uncle's estate. Many years before, powerful tobacco magnate and cigar-manufacturer Major Singleton (Donald Crisp) drove Brant and his father (now dead) out of town. Singleton foreclosed on the Royles because they grew the best bright leaf tobacco and because young Brant dared to fall in love with his daughter, Margaret (Patricia Neal).

When Royle stops a runaway carriage driven by Margaret, she gives him a cool reception. His ardor remains undiminished. Bored and eager for excitement, she deliberately incites her father to confront Royle at the hotel. Inventor John Barton (Jeff Corey) needing financing for his revolutionary cigarette-rolling machine, sees the incident and approaches Royle. (Singleton dismissed the idea.) Royle has $40, a run-down cigarette factory—and a friend.

Brant was Sonia Kovac's (Lauren Bacall) first love. Long ago, he gave her his father's chiming pocket watch. Once a cigarette girl, Sonia has prospered by turning her late mother's house into a high-class bordello. Royle persuades her to invest in the machine, making her a partner. "I don't kiss partners", Sonia says. Brant hires medicine show man Chris Malley (Jack Carson) after he comes up with a perfect slogan: “The Royle Cigarette Company: Fit for a King.” Malley eventually becomes Royle's second in command.

Barton's invention produces cigarettes at a fraction of the cost of hand rolling, and Royle's company grows by leaps and bounds. "Sick of being treated like a lady" and aroused by the danger, Margaret leads Brant on. Brant comes hours late to Sonia's birthday party and tells her his plans, blind to the fact that she loves him. She goes to Europe.

One by one, Royle takes over the big businesses, until only Singleton is left. Finally, he shows the Major that he has acquired his shares and his debts. Royle offers to give them back as a wedding present. Margaret tells Singleton that she will marry Royle, even though she does not love him, in order to save the family interests. He is appalled at her cold-blooded practicality and, blaming Royle, challenges the upstart to a duel in the hotel bar. Royle refuses, even when Singleton threatens to shoot him in cold blood: That would violate Singleton's code of honor. Singleton does shoot, wounding the unarmed man slightly. Disgraced, he commits suicide.

Singleton's estate is worthless. Even Singleton House is mortgaged. Margaret refuses to sell the house: She will find a way. Royle comes to see her, to say that whatever hatred there was has gone with her father. She warns him to stay away from her. He replies that with him, she can have everything. They kiss.

Royle buys out Barton, who goes to Detroit and the fledgling automobile business. Sonia returns from Europe, to a house beautifully refurbished by Malley, who proposes. Sonia believes Brant and Margaret are through, now that the Major is dead. Malley shows her the betrothal announcement.

Margaret and Brant marry. Sonia's wedding gift is the pocketwatch. The Royles go abroad for a year. When they return, the business is in trouble and so is the marriage. Margaret refuses to share Royle's bed. Headlines read "Attorney General to Smash Royle Inc." over monopoly charges. Spending lavishly, Margaret has sold all the stock that Royle gave her. Malley says she has taken $2 million out of the company. Royle and Malley, who knew that Barton was behind the monopoly charges, learn that Margaret has been feeding Barton information. Brant confronts Margaret, who tells him she has schemed and planned to destroy him since the day her father was buried. Now she wants a divorce. Until the day he dies, Brant will remember the Singletons. She leaves; he sets the house on fire accidentally. He stops the fire brigade, crying "Let it burn!"

On New Year's Day, 1900, Brant comes to Sonia to say goodbye and to apologize. She says he has killed the Brant Royle she loved. As to the business, he says Malley will handle it; Royle tobacco is so big now, it doesn't need him. Riding out of town, he pauses to listen to his father's watch.

Cast

 * Gary Cooper as Brant Royle
 * Lauren Bacall as Sonia Kovac
 * Patricia Neal as Margaret Jane Singleton
 * Jack Carson as Chris Malley, aka "Dr Monaco"
 * Donald Crisp as Major Singleton
 * Gladys George as Rose, one of Sonia's prostitutes
 * Elizabeth Patterson as Tabitha Singleton, Margaret's older relation and companion
 * Jeff Corey as John Barton
 * Taylor Holmes as Lawyer Calhoun
 * Thurston Hall as Phillips, a tobacco grower
 * Ralph Moody as Blacksmith (uncredited)
 * Paul Newlan as Blacksmith (uncredited)
 * Edward Peil Sr. as Train Conductor (uncredited)
 * Cleo Moore as Louise (uncredited)

Box office
According to Warner Bros records, the film earned $1,702,000 domestically and $744,000 foreign.

Critical reaction
Bosley Crowther of The New York Times observed: "There is a great deal about the tobacco business and its history which is fascinating... the main fault of this drama, so far as flavor is concerned, is that it soon drifts away from the aura of the pungent tobacco industry and becomes just an old-fashioned conflict between a love-crazy man and a pitiless girl... The screen play by Ranald MacDougall, from Foster Fitz-Simons' book, is a literate piece of writing, with a couple of taut dramatic scenes, but virtually every twist in it can be seen a mile away." William Brogdon of Variety wrote "It's overlong and tedious at times in telling its drama of the tobacco industry, love and revenge during the last decade of the 19th century. Star names provide some boxoffice help, but there's not enough good solid interest in the footage to sustain it." Harrison's Reports similarly wrote: "Adult in dialogue and in treatment, the picture is overlong, plot-heavy and slow-paced, and its theme of love and revenge somewhat unpleasant. The performances are uniformly good, and there are a number of individual scenes that are outstanding, but there is so much plot and counterplot that, for the most part, the drama fails to come through on the screen with telling emotional impact."

Legacy
The film, one of many epic melodramas produced by Hollywood at the time, was widely forgotten after its first theatrical release in 1950. Bright Leaf gained new attention in 2003, when it played prominently in the documentary Bright Leaves by filmmaker Ross McElwee, a descendant of the man whose life was reflected in both the novel and film.

title: Bright Leaf


text:
User talk:Jezmeister

—Cel es tianpower háblame 20:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC) 13:37, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jezmeister


text:
Leutkirch im Allgäu

Leutkirch im Allgäu is a former Free Imperial City located in south-eastern Baden-Württemberg, Germany. It is part of the district of Ravensburg, in the western Allgäu region and belongs to the administrative region (Regierungsbezirk) of Tübingen. According to the German Meteorological Service, Leutkirch is one of the sunniest cities in Germany.

The name Leutkirch is derived from "Leutekirche" (English: Church of the people), a catholic church in the town which is called "Sankt Martin" today.

Since the municipal reform of 1972, the consolidated Leutkirch urban area comprises the town of Leutkirch im Allgäu itself and the former municipalities of Diepoldshofen, Friesenhofen, Gebrazhofen, Herlazhofen, Hofs, Reichenhofen, Winterstetten and Wuchzenhofen.

Geography
Leutkirch is located in the south of Germany, in the southeast of the state of Baden-Württemberg on the border with Bavaria. The border with Austria and Lake Constance are about 40 km away.

Early history
Very few protohistoric settlement remains have been found in the Allgäu region although a grave dating from the migration period has been found in the Leutkirch area. The area was probably settled by Alemannic tribes before the establishment of the Danube-Iller-Rhine limes during the Roman period.

The town was created with the merger of the villages of Ufhofen and Mittelhofen and vestiges of those settlements were found under the old church of St. Martin. First mention of the church is found in a document of the Abbey of St. Gall dating back to 766. After the line of the local lord became extinct, the area was awarded to the counts of Bregenz and of Montfort.

Era of the Free Imperial City
In 1293, King Adolf of Nassau granted to Leutkirch the right to rule itself according to the Town Code of Lindau (Rechte der Stadt Lindau), thus effectively raising Leutkirch to the status of a Free Imperial City. For a while, the town continued to be ruled by a bailiff (Landvogt) appointed by the king. In 1311, there is mention for the first time of a town council (Rat) whose members are also the town judges. An elected bürgermeister (mayor) chaired the town council from the 15th century. A so-called Committee of Twenty, representing the guilds, was also part of the governing structure. Eventually, the town council was to be composed of a magistrate (Amtmann), two mayors, three secret councillors and nine councillors.

The main industry of the town then was the linen trade and the main weaver guild had a membership of 200 at one time. Their linen production was exported to Italy and Spain mostly. Leutkirch became a member of the Swabian League in 1488 and gained a seat and vote both in the League and in the Imperial Diet (Reichstag).

Like the majority of the other Free Imperial Cities, Leutkirch went through considerable internal strife during the Protestant Reformation. The town, officially Lutheran in 1546, adhered to the Augsburg Confession and later joined the Schmalkaldic League. There was a fierce dispute for several years between the Protestant magistrates of the town and the abbot of Weingarten Abbey for control over St. Martin’s parish church whose patron was the abbot. A compromise was reached in 1562: the Catholics kept the parish church while the Protestants took over the hospital’s church, which was expanded in 1589 and is now known as Memorial Church. Catholics therefore maintained a foothold and some rights in the Protestant city. In 1577 Leutkirch joined other Lutheran Free Imperial Cities in signing the Formula of Concord.

The town suffered heavily during the Thirty Years' War and the number of inhabitants fell drastically. The post-war period was not easy as well and the debt of the town continued to increase. However, difficult economic times did not prevent the town's rulers from having a new baroque town hall (rathaus) built in 1740. The stucco ceiling by Johannes Schütz remains one of the main attractions of the town. From the Peace of Westphalia onward, Leutkirch was to remain one of the smallest and least conspicuous of the 50 Free Imperial Cities of the Empire.

End of the Free Imperial City of Leutkirch
In the course of the mediatisation of 1802-03, Leutkirch was not spared the fate of the great majority of the 50 Free Imperial Cities of the moribund Holy Roman Empire and lost its independence. The town was first annexed to the Duchy (later Kingdom) of Bavaria in 1803 before becoming part of the Kingdom of Württemberg in 1810.

The Free Men of the Leutkircher Heath

All of the countryside surrounding the Free Imperial City of Leutkirch except on the northwest was designated a Free Imperial Village possessing Imperial Immediacy. This territory was known as the Free Men of the Leutkircher Heath (Freien auf Leutkircher Heide). By 1800, the Free Men were only one of five Imperial villages still remaining. It shared the fate of the City of Leutkirch and was occupied by Bavarian troops in 1803.

Immigration
The 2011 census determined that 1,438 people, or 6.6 % of the residents in Leutkirch, do not hold German citizenship. Of these people, 1,307 come from other European countries, 93 from Asia, 15 from Africa and 23 from North and South America. The largest immigration groups come from Turkey (440 people), Italy (175), Kosovo (98), Austria (86) and Bosnia & Herzegovina (65).

Religion
According to the 2011 census, 70.3 % of Leutkirch residents were Catholic, 12.3 % Protestant, 0.8 % Orthodox, and the rest belonged to other religious communities or none at all.

Politics
Hans-Jörg Henle has been the mayor of Leutkirch since 2008. He does not belong to any political party.

In the 2021 state elections in Baden-Württemberg, the conservative Christian Democratic "CDU" was the most successful party in Leutkirch with 36.8% of votes. Second came the green ecological "Die Grünen" with 28.5 %, followed by the right-wing populist "AfD" with 9.4 %.

Twin towns
Leutkirch im Allgäu is twinned with:

 * 🇫🇷 Bédarieux, France, since 1982
 * 🇫🇷 Hérépian, France, since 1982
 * 🇫🇷 Lamalou-les-Bains, France, since 1982
 * 🇮🇹 Castiglione delle Stiviere, Italy, since 1995

Transport
Leutkirch is located on the federal highway 96, which leads from Lindau to Munich. The B 465 completes the connection to the federal road network.

The city is the initial point of the Leutkirch-Memmingen railway. The train station Leutkirch is located on the railroad lines Herbertingen-Isny and Leutkirch-Memmingen. The town can be reached daily at two-hour intervals (in the morning and in the afternoon sometimes also hourly).

The town is connected by several bus lines with Isny and Bad Wurzach, among others, and belongs to the Bodensee-Oberschwaben Verkehrsverbund (bodo). The Leutkirch city bus operates within Leutkirch.

Center Parcs
Center Parcs Europe has opened a vacation park in Leutkirch. On September 27, 2009, a majority of Leutkirch residents voted in favor of the project in a referendum. At the end of 2015, it was announced that the financing of the 250 million euro project had been secured; approximately 1,000 vacation homes and a large covered center with stores, restaurants, entertainment facilities and a large bathing and spa area were to be built by the end of 2018. In the end, the concept was adapted and enlarged. The construction costs thus rose to about 350 million. Center Parcs Park Allgäu has been open to vacation guests since the end of October 2018.

Museum im Bock
The Museum im Bock local history museum displays exhibits in relation to the town's and craftsmen's history.

Schloss Zeil
Schloss Zeil (Zeil Castle) is located five kilometers away from the core city on a hill above the village of Unterzeil. The Renaissance building can only be visited from the outside. The parish church of St. Maria, which belongs to the castle complex, is freely accessible.

In 1598, Truchsess Froben von Waldburg-Zeil had the medieval Zeil Castle demolished and in 1599 began construction of the present Renaissance castle. Construction dragged on until his death in 1614. As a supporter of the Counter-Reformation, Truchsess Froben had the church and monastery (Hauskloster) built first, and the castle after. He also ordered daily high mass, solemn praise of God and mass for the dead resting in the crypt.

Notable people

 * Alois Graf von Waldburg-Zeil (1933–2014), politician
 * Rainer W. Bussmann (born 1967), ethnobotanist and vegetation ecologist
 * Heiko Butscher (born 1980), footballer and manager
 * Elke Maravilha (born 1945), German-born Brazilian actress, model and television personality
 * Peter Nick (born 1962), molecular biologist

title: Leutkirch im Allgäu


text:
User talk:Selfexiled

Hey there selfexiled:

If you get any emails from Wikipedia that someone tried to recover your account - I want to say that is me, for obvious reasons. I forgot my username on here and I was so sure if it was your name. Sorry for the inconvenience but I was not trying to "hack" into your account. I got my own here.

SelfEx1led (talk)

title: User talk:Selfexiled


text:
Talk:Tim Brunero

Untitled
It was decided that unless Big Brother housemates do something significant, they should not be given their own page. I will convert this page to a redirect to the Big Brother page unless someone adds something significant to this page. -- Barrylb 13:37, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I would've thought that as he is/was a journalist for a couple of major newspapers, he is a publicly known figure? Not to mention with his profile of runner-up (and, by many, expected winner), he would be worthy of an article.  I'm not sure what he has planned for his website - something to promote, by the looks of things - but he has a link to www.30a.org, so it appears he has some involvement in that group. -- Chuq 22:45, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Decided by whom? I could easily write 500 words on Tim Brunero, he's about to visit East Timor & write a book on Big Brother. I'm going to add it back. Gtoomey 08:00, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I'll support that, Gtoomey -- Chuq 10:39, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I've reverted back and added a picture. I'll add more content in a few days.

Tim is now writing for The Chaser & visiting East Timor in November 2005. I'll see if I can get a picture with Tim wearing a Newtown Jets tshirt. Gtoomey 06:33, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

 * See also http://www.lazypolliewatch.com 202.181.82.219 15:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Big Brother's Big Mouth
Apparently Tim is going to be a simi-regular on the Australia version of Big Brother's Big Mouth.. more details on the official site or on Behind Big Brother

Clofts (talk) 11:03, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tim Brunero


text: Category:Cricket writers

title: Category:Cricket writers


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Getting a raise

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was BJAODN and delete redirect. [[smoddy ]] 20:01, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Getting a raise
Someone had a bad day at work did they? DJ Clayworth 13:39, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Speedy Delete at least its kind of funny -- Ryan Norton T 13:55, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Move to BJAODN and delete. We can't let this gem be lost in history. --Quintin3265 17:39, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Technically "move" is the wrong word to use if you want it on BJAODN (since the move tab won't be of use. Instead you may better call it "copy". - Mgm|(talk) 17:42, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * At least its not Delete and Move, LOL! Ryan Norton T 00:39, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, dictionary definition. - Mgm|(talk) 17:42, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Nil Illegitum Carborundum, dude. Alf 19:51, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * BJAODN Y0u (Y0ur talk page) (Y0ur contributions) 22:44, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment Note to the closing admin - the previous version of this page was much funnier so that should be moved to BJAODN :) Ryan Norton T 00:43, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Juan de Matos Fragoso

Juan de Matos Fragoso (c. 1608 – 1689), a Spanish dramatist of Portuguese descent, was born about 1608 at Alvito (Alentejo). After taking his degree in law at the University of Evora, he proceeded to Madrid, where he made acquaintance with Juan Pérez de Montalbán, and thus obtained an introduction to the stage. He quickly displayed great cleverness in hitting the public taste, and many contemporaries of superior talent eagerly sought his aid as a collaborator. The earliest of his printed plays is La defensa de la Fè y Principe prodigioso (1651), and twelve more pieces were published in 1658.

His popularity continued long after his death on January 4, 1689. Nevertheless, Matos Fragoso's dramas do not stand the test of reading. His emphatic preciosity and sophistical insistence on the point of honor are tedious and unconvincing; in La venganza en el despeño, in Á lo que obliga un agravio, and in other plays, he merely recasts, albeit very adroitly, works by Lope de Vega.

title: Juan de Matos Fragoso


text:
Talk:Harry G. Leslie

External links modified
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title: Talk:Harry G. Leslie