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Conflict: Desert Storm II

Conflict: Desert Storm II (known as Conflict: Desert Storm II - Back to Baghdad in North America) is a tactical shooter video game developed by Pivotal Games. It was released for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 2, Xbox and GameCube. It is the second installment in the Conflict series.

Gameplay
Conflict: Desert Storm II is set during the Persian Gulf War and is based on the covert operations of 'Alpha One', a four-man special forces team of either the British SAS or US Delta Force. The player can control one member at a time but can also give remote commands to other squad members. It is possible for two players to play simultaneously, each controlling two soldiers. Up to four can play in the GameCube and Xbox versions.

The player can use different tactics, such as focusing on a head on approach or by using stealth against a variety of forces from the Iraqi military. Experience garnered by each member of the team over time results in promotions and medals awarded for distinguished conduct during missions. Several licensed weapons and vehicles such as the M16 Assault Rifle or Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle are also usable in-game. Different orders, such as "follow me" or "fire at will" can be given to the soldiers not being controlled by the player, who can switch control between them at will.

Each member of the four man team specialises in a specific role. For example, Foley is the designated marksman and expert sniper, Jones is the engineer and explosives expert, Connor the heavy weapons specialist and Bradley the team lead and radioman - facilitating the ability to call in air-strikes when needed.

Plot
On August 2, 1990, Iraqi forces invade and occupy Kuwait, resulting in an allied coalition of over 100 countries to come to the aid of Kuwait against Iraq. During the first days of Kuwait's liberation, Special Forces team Alpha One is deployed on a rescue mission to Al-Hadar, where 'Delta Two', an allied Special Forces team is trapped behind Iraqi lines. With gunships providing assistance, Alpha One breach the city walls, locate and secure Delta Two's last known position but does not immediately make visual contact with them. Alpha One continues to search the city for them the next morning, and finally locate them after battling through several Iraqi troops and supporting armour in the city. Alpha One then escort Delta Two to an evacuation point at an Iraqi communications post, which Alpha One subsequently destroy upon Delta Two's extraction before leaving themselves.

Alpha One are then sent on a covert operation to destroy an Iraqi radar site and fuel dump. Sneaking past the base defences, Alpha One successfully destroy the designated targets, however upon completion of their mission Alpha One find themselves surrounded by Iraqi troops, tanks and gunships. Seeing very little option, Bradley orders his team to surrender, and Alpha One are taken prisoner. Inside an Iraqi prison, Alpha One are brutally interrogated by their captors. A flight of Stealth fighters drop smart bombs over the complex, providing Alpha One a means to escape. Before returning to the Allied lines, Alpha One are deployed to a site housing Sarin gas as well as multiple SCUD missiles and launchers that they disarm and destroy respectively.

As the liberation of Kuwait draws near, retreating Iraqi troops are ordered to set fire to numerous Kuwaiti oil wells as part of a scorched earth policy. Alpha One are ordered to halt further damage by disarming numerous explosives on several oil wells, before linking up with forward elements of the 2nd Marines. Alpha One and the 2nd Marines then embark on a mission inside Kuwait City, where Iraq has constructed two Superguns used to stall the advance of Coalition troops in the desert. Alpha One secure an airport where Iraqi troops have emplaced SAM sites as well as an air defence grid which Alpha One both render inoperable. With air superiority ensured for the coalition troops, Alpha One then embark on the destruction of both guns in the city's harbour, eradicating any hope remaining for the Iraqi forces of success.

In an ending cutscene, Alpha One are seen viewing the re-established Emir of Kuwait thanking the Coalition forces for their assistance as Kuwait is finally liberated.

Reception
The game received "mixed or average reviews" on all platforms according to the review aggregation website Metacritic. In Japan, where the PlayStation 2 version was ported for release under the name Conflict Delta II: Wangan Sensō 1991 (コンフリクト・デルタII 湾岸戦争 1991) and published by Capcom on June 30, 2005, Famitsu gave it a score of three sevens and one eight for a total of 29 out of 40.

title: Conflict: Desert Storm II


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François Fratellini

François Fratellini (1879-1951) was a French circus clown. He performed as an elegant Whiteface. He was a member of the Fratellini Family. François was born in Paris, in 1879, and died there in 1951. He had two brothers: Paul Fratellini (1877 - 1940) and Albert Fratellini (1886 - 1961).

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: François Fratellini


text:
User talk:Jason Hughes

A welcome from Sango123
Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

 * If you haven't already, drop by the New user log and tell others a bit about yourself.
 * Always sign your posts on talk pages! That way, others will know who left which comments.
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * Simplified Ruleset
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style
 * Wikipedia Glossary
 * If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also the Topical index.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Though we all make goofy mistakes, here is what Wikipedia is not. If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to see the help pages or add a question to the village pump. The Community Portal can also be very useful.

Happy Wiki-ing!

-- Sango  123  16:32, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you need help with anything or simply wish to say hello. :)

Norma Major
May I suggest you discuss your edits at WikiProject Peerage? Corvus cornix 21:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:08, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jason Hughes


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Little Astrology prince

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was No Consensus. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 05:02, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Little Astrology prince
nn. seems to be an ad for their website. 202.156.2.74 16:32, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. A well-known astrologer and writer. — Instantnood 17:06, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Is it verifiable? The Google test does return many results, but most of them are either 1) the WP article 2) sites using the WP article 3) link to his own website. - 218.212.97.56 22:06, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete. A well-known astrologer and writer who has kept his identity a secret!!! Let's help him to continue to keep it a secret.  Delete.  Dlyons493 17:41, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep Sounds like a version of Russell Grant. Alf 17:52, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete nn. --PhilipO 20:55, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Please add your reasoning. Thank you. BorgQueen 18:16, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I couldn't verify it. --Apyule 04:51, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Please take a look at "The Internet Public Library". He is also one of the e-card providers on Yahoo! Hong Kong . — Instantnood 10:03, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * That might verify his existance, but I can't read Chinse and I'd like to see something more than a link to a personal website. --Apyule 00:42, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Here is a list (in Traditional Chinese) of books he authored, with ISBN. — Instantnood 09:14, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete. — I followed the link which User:Instantnood provided, and found the Internet Public Library only listed his sushi fortune-telling website. We are not talking about the website here, are we? We are talking about "the astrologer who keeps his identity secret" himself. Second, since there are countless people and company who provide e-card on regional sites for promotional purposes, I don't think it in itself qualifies him for the notability. Third, his book, allegedley published in 1997, has no ISBN, and I could not find on Amazon.com. Unless some better proof comes up, I vote Delete. BorgQueen 11:45, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Here is a list (in Traditional Chinese) of books he authored, with ISBN. — Instantnood 12:06, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Dottore So 18:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Please add your reasoning. Thank you. BorgQueen 18:16, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete If this person is going to be that secretive, then just how much material can we add to this page? It will probably remain a stub forever. :D Jokes aside, I would like to see more evidence over the notability of this person and his books.--Huaiwei 10:14, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * But now what are the actual reasons for deleting the entry? it is because 1)it sounds promotional 2)we don't know the name of this person recorded on his ID card 3)it will probably remain a very short entry. Which one(s)? --K.C. Tang 12:12, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I am not too sure for the rest, but all three reasons u quote are valid for discussion here, although I am not too concerned about his real name. I am more concerned over just how much content u can add for something as secretive as this. Is wikipedia going to become a source for original research by unravelling this mystery?--Huaiwei 13:36, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Comment: I would like to add, even if this individual is somewhat known in Hong Kong, (if I understand correctly) Hong Kong is just a small part of China, and since it seems people from the rest of China never heard of this person, this person does not meet the requirement of WP:BIO. 202.156.2.75 16:23, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you the same person as the one who made this nomination? By your IP address I can tell you're currently located in Singapore, and I'm not surprised by your comment on Hong Kong. By searching for sites by country on Google, I got 29,900 for sites in Hong Kong, 1,680 for Taiwan, 40,000 for China (I suppose CN refers specifically to mainland China). Of course a Google test doesn't provide the full picture of his notability, but that already refutes the claim that " people from the rest of China never heard of this person ". Take a look at the descriptions of him on the sites from the Google test too. — Instantnood 16:48, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, but may I know what you mean by "I can tell you're currently located in Singapore, and I'm not surprised by your comment on Hong Kong."?--Huaiwei 17:16, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak keep I think this guy does earn some publicity in Hong Kong, but, persoinally, I don't like this guy. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 03:37, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Well this guy does have some publicity in Taiwan and mainland China too, and of course, overseas Hongkonger communities. — Instantnood 07:18, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't like a lot of people but that doesn't mean they should be deleted (from wikipedia or otherwise). I think a policy says articles on writers are acceptable if they publish (but not by vanity press). -Ajshm 16:01, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Not all published authors are eligible. I've followed the link WP:BIO and found this: Published authors, editors, and photographers who have written books with an audience of 5,000 or more or in periodicals with a circulation of 5,000 or more - BorgQueen 16:14, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Then our petite prince should be qualified ... HK girls are crazy about astrology and the likes, u know. :P --K.C. Tang 01:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * And he writes on several newspapers currently and in the past. I don't think it's possible for any newspaper in Hong Kong to survive with a readership less than 5000. — Instantnood 07:05, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * That said, 5000 is actually a very small figure, and it probably should not be the only criterion when evaluationg this case. Just about any book published in Singapore and which are by law required to be stocked in the national library here already automatically gets an audience of over 5000, even if you are a minnow no one know about.--Huaiwei 07:26, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Weak keep In addition to the popup-ad-laden website this person apparently (per a review found here http://www.wicce.com/roth14.html) has published a rather ugly Tarot deck.  Perhaps someone can show notability. Crypticfirefly
 * Keep. No apparent sign of coincidence with the deletion criteria. Doesn't fit much as a vanity deletion. De ryc  k C.  10:55, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text: Talk:Union City, Indiana

title: Talk:Union City, Indiana


text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies/Progress/Results

This is a list of constituencies and their creation dates so we can pick the low hanging fruit and have some complete electoral histories for as many as possible. It does not yet contain all the constituencies. Any constituencies with completed results can be striked out with and.

1265

 * Lincoln, City of York

1295

 * Lewes, Winchester, Canterbury, Chichester, Guildford, Horsham (Until 1918), Reigate, Great Grimsby

1300s

 * Wycombe, Dover

1400s

 * Windsor, Berwick-upon-Tweed

1500s

 * Montgomeryshire, Monmouth, Caernarfon, Buckingham, Maidstone, Aylesbury, Banbury, Beverley and Holderness, Richmond, North Yorkshire

1600s

 * City of Durham, Newark

1832

 * North Devon, Surrey East, Isle of Wight, Durham North (Until 1885), Surrey East (Until 1885), South Shields, South Derbyshire

1868

 * Darlington, Hartlepool, Middlesbrough (Until 1918)

1885

 * Newbury, Sevenoaks, Wokingham (Until 1918), Dartford, Medway (Until 1918), Epsom and Ewell, Ashford, Basingstoke, Eastbourne, Fareham (Until 1950), Faversham (Renamed 1997), Henley, Bishop Auckland, Durham North West (Until 1918), Jarrow, Hexham, Tynemouth, Wansbeck (Until 1950), Bassetlaw, Bosworth, North East Derbyshire, West Derbyshire, High Peak, Nottingham South, Rushcliffe, Gainsborough, Harborough, Kingston upon Hull East, Leeds Central, Skipton and Ripon

1918

 * Spelthorne, Gillingham, Portsmouth North (Until 1950), Portsmouth South, Aldershot, Surrey East, Blaydon, Newcastle upon Tyne Central, Newcastle upon Tyne East, Newcastle upon Tyne North, Sedgefield (Until 1974), Ebbw Vale (Renamed 1983), Brecon and Radnorshire, Cardiff Central, Broxtowe, Chesterfield, Leicester East, Leicester South, Leicester West, Daventry, Kettering, Wellingborough, Scarborough and Whitby

1945

 * Horsham (Until 1974)

1950

 * Cheadle, Woking, Wokingham, Brighton Kemptown, Brighton Pavilion, Hove, Southampton Itchen, Southampton Test, Blyth (Until 1983), Durham North West, Easington, Gateshead East (Renamed 1997), Sunderland North, Sunderland South, Bolsover, Derby North, Derby South, Kingston upon Hull North

1955

 * Eastleigh, Ashfield, Nottingham North, Midlothian

1974

 * Mid Sussex, Tonbridge and Malling, Portsmouth North, Beaconsfield, Chesham and Amersham, Fareham, Gosport, Mid Sussex, Middlesbrough, Redcar, Blaby, Northampton North, Northampton South

1983

 * Surrey South West, Thanet North, Tunbridge Wells, Wantage, Wealden, Sedgefield, Witney, Romsey, Crawley, Hastings and Rye, Oxford West and Abingdon, Oxford East , Medway, Reading West, Slough, Thanet South, Bexhill and Battle, Esher and Walton, Folkestone and Hythe, Gravesham, Hampshire East, Hampshire North West, Havant, Horsham, Mole Valley , Reading East, Blyth Valley, Durham North, Houghton and Washington (Renamed (1997), Sedgefield, Stockton North, Stockton South, Tyne Bridge, Wansbeck, Blaenau Gwent, Meirionnydd Nant Conwy, Amber Valley, Erewash, Gedling, North West Leicestershire, Loughborough, Mansfield, Nottingham East, Corby, Rutland and Melton, Sherwood, Ryedale, Selby, East Lothian

1992

 * Milton Keynes North East, Milton Keynes South West

1997

 * Runnymede and Weybridge, Surrey Heath , Worthing East and Shoreham , Worthing West , Chatham and Aylesford , Sittingbourne and Sheppey , Arundel and South Downs , Bognor Regis and Littlehampton, Bracknell , Hampshire North East , Maidenhead, New Forest East, New Forest West, Middlesbrough South and Cleveland East, Tyneside North, Clwyd West , Ceredigion, Preseli Pembrokeshire, Carmarthen East and Dinefwr , Charnwood, Boston and Skegness, Grantham and Stamford, Louth and Horncastle, Sleaford and North Hykeham, South Holland and The Deepings, Brigg and Goole, Cleethorpes, Haltemprice and Howden, Harrogate and Knaresborough, Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle, Scunthorpe , Vale of York, East Yorkshire

2005

 * Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk, Dumfries and Galloway , Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale ,

2024

 * WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies/2024 constituencies


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Talk:Valparaiso, Indiana

Chicago Metropolitan Area
I am not going to edit this until I sleep on it, but I certainly don't think Valparaiso can be described as a suburb of Chicago. It has a largely independent economy, and takes little of it's cultural or ethnic identity from Chicago. The regional accent is different, and more aligned with central Indiana. The economy includes commuters, but they are a small percentage and there is no viable bus, train, or any other method of public transportation between Chicago proper and Valparaiso. While it may be correct that Chicago is the next big town insofar as one must go there to find and apple store, it is also true that one can buy a mac at the best buy without leaving town. Also, Valparaiso was not founded as an expansion of Chicago as were its true suburbs. I cannot think of one business that exists in Valparaiso in order to serve Chicago's demands for goods or services. It is also worth mentioning that quite a few citizens of Valparaiso are quite resentful of new growth, and especially of any of that growth that is fueled by Chicago. I have a feeling that if you took a survey of people who have lived in Valparaiso for at least twenty years, you would find that they absolutely do not consider it a suburb of Chicago, but if you were to ask people who have moved there in the past ten, you would find they increasingly do (although I still doubt you would get a majority)... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alfred Lord Tenniscourt (talk • contribs) 04:47, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Nearly everything in the above statement is false. Valparaiso is part of the Chicago Metro Area, as defined by the U.S. Census Bureau, and is not part of the city of Chicago. By definition, suburbs are towns within a metro area which are not the main central city. One reason it is included in the Chicago Metro is that its economy is NOT, in fact, independent from the rest of the area. This may have been true 15-20 years ago, but is not now. It's much more of a bedroom community than an economic center. There aren't nearly enough high paying jobs in Valparaiso to be funding the construction of hundreds (thousands?) of $500,000-$3mil mcmansions on nearly every side of town. These are largely occupied by people who commute into the city of Chicago or other area economic centers for work. Also, while every metro area in this country has suburbs without public transportation into the city, there IS, in fact, a bus from Valpo to Chicago, as well as plans for a train. (As it is there is a train stop 15 minutes away.) I would agree with your observation that many of the old-timers in town are resentful of their town becoming a suburb. This happens in every small town that becomes a suburb. I personally don't blame them one bit, but that doesn't change an encyclopedic definition. Oh, and the accent? It's the "northern cities vowel shift" accent (look it up), similar to what you hear in Wisconsin, Northern Illinois, Michigan, and Northern Ohio (the rest of the Great Lakes area), and nothing like what you hear in central or southern Indiana, Illinois, and Ohio. Every outside observer I've spoken with recognizes this. It's VERY distinctive. Finally, LOTS of the Chicago suburbs weren't originally designed as extensions of Chicago, but were separate towns or cities that were swallowed up. Actually, even some of the outer neighborhoods of the actual city of Chicago were once separate towns and later annexed. This happens in every growing metro area over time, too. I'm not saying I like the fact that Valparaiso has become a suburb, but it has, by any definition. 71.115.87.56 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 02:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC).

I think this is a useful piece of information for those who don't know where Valparaiso is. Being a part of Chicagoland is a big part of the region's identity, too -- many people live in Valpo and work in Chicago. It's also regarded that way in an official sense, too. Illuminatedwax 01:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Without a doubt. When telling people the name of any suburb, the first thing you tell them is what metro it's a part of. In my experience, most people outside of the immediate area aren't familiar with Valparaiso (except possibly for the university or its basketball team), but when you tell them it's in the Chicago metro, they understand. It's incomprehensible to me that somebody wouldn't think this shouldn't be included. It's arguably the most important thing that should be included. 152.228.97.28 21:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

It's nice to see two people interested in factual details and who have local knowledge participating but don't expect your input to last. You shall be edited out by someone who claims that no such region as Chicagoland exists, that the Chicago Metropolitan Area ends at the Lake County line, that the Calumet Region ends at the Illinois state line, and that Valpo is part of Southlake, a "region" I have never heard of except in his Wikipedia editings (and as the former name of a shopping mall). At least the battle over whether Valparaiso looks to South Bend or Chicago as its big city hasn't been completely won by those who imagine that South Bend is more important than Chicago.

"This article or section is written like an advertisement. Please help rewrite this article from a neutral point of view." Is this a joke? Surely Wikipedia policy encourages this. Each community's write-up includes data from the Census Bureau, short articles consisting only of that. Lists of businesses are encouraged. Contributers adding historical details or topical information often draw complaints, if those details are not in the latest guidebooks which the editors look to. I understand that Wikipedia relies on unpaid volunteers but putting mainly people with vested interests in the write-ups' slants in charge of things here is bringing the problems on yourselves. And this isn't just about cities. Each band article features details of how high each record made it on the sales lists. What on earth does that have to do with music? What it has to do with is business. If Valpo was purely residential, I don't suppose it would be featured here at all. IanHistor 22:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Does Valparaiso = Porter County?
Almost half of those public schools listed are not within the city of Valparaiso. Was that meant as some joke that I'm simply not getting? I'm not in the mood to make more corrections which someone wishing to make Valpo out to be several times as large as it is will simply remove so I'll simply go on record here. IanHistor (talk) 00:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I didn't add any of the schools, but as far as I know they are all schools with Valparaiso mailing addresses, if not all in the city limits. For whatever reason Valparaiso has yet to annex areas where much of the population now lives, so its city limits do not reflect that very well. As a result, there are more schools outside the city limits than inside. For example, while there is only one high school within the official city limits, there are few others within just a few miles of the city limits, in residential areas with Valparaiso mailing addresses, which are clearly more affiliated with Valparaiso than any other town/city. I don't think anybody was trying to be misleading. 152.228.167.150 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:42, 24 October 2008 (UTC).

So you're agreeing that schools outside of Valparaiso are listed as being in Valpo. "I don't think anybody was trying to be misleading." So what? I'm pointing out that the page's information is inaccurate, not that it's vandalism. "Valparaiso has yet to annex areas where much of the population now lives" Just out of curiosity, what does that line mean? Valparaiso contains (much) less than 1% of the population of the world. I think we all agree that Valparaiso has yet to annex the (much) more than 99% of the surface of the globe outside of its city limits. How is that relevant to this article? Valparaiso, by definition, has not annexed any whatsoever of the population outside of Valpo. So what?

The USPS delivers mail to everyone in the United States. Why do so many of you Wikipedia writers & editors apparently figure that that means that cities & towns with post offices therefore cover all of the United States? Only about (very roughly) a quarter of Porter County is within municipalities. Why is that so hard for so many Wikipedians to grasp? Townships are not the same thing as cities or towns. Why is that so hard for so many Wikipedians to grasp? Having been told something or having believed something all your life or even seeing something in print doesn't make it factual. Ahhh, I'm finally getting it: Valparaisans must have an inferiority complex about their city. That's why a big chunk of Wikipedia's Valpo article is simply a list of schools across (at least) five townships, not much is written about Valpo itself and much of that simply being census data, and the federal government's mail service is taken as the determiner of Valparaiso rather than the city's own borders. That's sad.

Education in Porter County is not a function of city government. It's handled by the townships. Either stick your public schools sections on the individual township pages or make a list of all the schools within Valparaiso (although not a function of Valpo government). Do not keep promoting this inaccurate nonsense claiming that ignorance makes it o.k. to lump every school in Porter County in with the cities they happen to be closest to. IanHistor (talk) 23:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...You obviously have some very strong feelings about this. I personally don't, and wouldn't care if it were changed, nor was I trying to get into an argument with you. The only thing I disagreed with you on is that I don't think anyone was trying to be misleading (which you do VERY clearly imply in both of your above statements). I was merely stating what I believed to be the author's intent. Based on my limited experience in Valpo (or the "Valpo area", since you seem to be big on technicalities), a high percentage of the people who say they live "in Valpo" actually live in housing developments just outside of the city limits, which in most cities would have been annexed by now. Nobody I've met here says live in "_____ Township" unless they're being more specific about which part of the area they live in, or they truly live out in the country (not in a big housing development near town). Likewise, as a relative outsider (I've only been here a couple of years and don't have kids in the schools), I've always heard the schools serving those areas called Valparaiso schools in a general sense. In a technical sense, I realize you're correct (if I can sort through the heated emotion in your paragraphs to just look at the facts). I'm not sure what upsets you about this so much, but I have no dog in the fight, so feel free to change it and duke it out with the locals who actually care about such things. I won't be one of them. 71.120.33.9 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 04:50, 1 November 2008 (UTC).

Well, we both agree on one thing -- that neither of us wishes to rewrite the education section (list of schools) of Valparaiso's page, me because that's not one of my specific topics of interest and because I have grown tired of having 90% of my Wikipedia corrections replaced by errors people have grown up with. We definitely speak English differently however. How did anything in either of my sections imply attempt to mislead? Is that what jokes are taken to be? While I know not to come to Wikipedia for facts, I have learned here how differently others use language and look at the world, which is useful in itself. Therefore specifically what out of my last section implies intent to mislead, let alone clear implication? It would be useful to know how what I write comes across so greatly differently than how I intend it that I cannot see that even upon repeated rereading.

"since you seem to be big on technicalities" This is meant to be an encyclopedia. 'You seriously consider details to be unimportant in writings serving as a popular information source for the entire world, many of the readers having no familiarity with the topics at all? I disappointedly gave up years ago on the idea that Wikipedia could grow into an encyclopedia for me but I keep hearing & reading of friends & professionals using it and their being surprised by my comments on the rifeness of inaccuracies so I can't simply ignore Wikipedia. How do you go through life considering truth & accuracy to be unimportant in general, let alone in an encyclopedia?

"a high percentage of the people who say they live 'in Valpo' actually live in housing developments just outside of the city limits" So what? You're agreeing that what they're saying is untrue, yet you figure their saying it therefore makes it fine for such untruths to be claimed in an encyclopedia? Most whites used to say that blacks were inferior. By your logic, that means it was fine to claim that blacks were inferior. Nazis claimed that Jews weren't human. By your logic, that means it was fine to claim that Jews weren't human. Oh, those are serious subjects, while the location of city limits doesn't involve mistreating people -- so it's crazy of me to care about truth or accuracy of things claimed on Wikipedia? Yow, do average Americans really have such uninterest in truth? Is lying considered bad only when it involves an attempt to mislead, and statements' accuracy itself isn't considered important?

"which in most cities would have been annexed by now" What on earth does that have to do with anything? I thought Wikipedia was trying to be an enyclopedia; you seem to be implying that Wikipedia is rather intended to serve as a collection of intentions and variations, one level removed from reality.

"Nobody I've met here says live in '_____ Township'" No murderers say they are murderers, even after they've been found guilty & sent to Michigan City State Prison. By your logic, I shouldn't refer to them as murderers but, if I write a Wikipedia article about them, I should refer to them as "unfairly accused"?

"I'm not sure what upsets you about this so much" I didn't realize truth & accuracy were so unappreciated. Gosh, I'm strange for caring about facts? Vandals occasionally make up things and post fictional sections in Wikipedia about various subjects, usually as jokes (though occasionally to promote something). If you don't even care about the truth of details (which aren't hurting anyone) in an article about a real city, then you must find it even more goofy for anyone to care about such jokes -- yet that is a matter which Wikipedia gets upset over and corrects as soon as they're found by editors.

Why are you hiding from readers that the reason you're writing about this is because your last name is "Valparaiso" and you get a nickel each time someone reads your Talk comments? Ok, I wrote that attempting to mislead readers but, by your logic, if I had written that out of (bizarre) ignorance rather than purposely trying to mislead, that would have made the statement acceptable, and you would be weird for complaining about the untruth (assuming that you did complain about it)?

I dare say people living outside Valpo wouldn't be willing to pay Valparaiso property taxes. Why isn't that looked to as a reason to refer to them as not living in Valpo rather than some of them saying they're in Valpo? Is Wikipedia an encyclopedia or a collection of folklore? IanHistor (talk) 13:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Starting a resolution
To help resolve this, I've broken up schools by districts (a few I still need to check). When the school serves the city, I've made a note (except for those schools that are part of the Center Township system, which serves most of the city and the township around it. When I get a chance, I'll add notes to where these schools actually are.  Then you can decide if some need to be removed.(Chris Light (talk) 15:26, 13 February 2009 (UTC))

Thanks for doing that. I personally couldn't care less about how schools in the Valpo area are classified on wikipedia, but I was about to change it myself just to stop Ian's endless paragraphs of inane whining. If only he had put 10% of the effort of the above paragraphs into fixing it himself, wiki would be working like it's supposed to. Funny that he says it's not one of his areas of interest when his postings clearly indicate that he's quite passionate about it. Oh, and Ian: When you find that 90% of your changes are reversed, that means people tend to disagree with them, and maybe (just maybe) they're wrong. That's also part of how wiki is supposed to work. Then if you REALLY care about it SO much (as is implied by the energy you put in above), you come to a compromise. Or, if you decide the wiki system doesn't work, you stop using it. Simple.71.115.8.76 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:41, 22 April 2009 (UTC).

Well said. Notice that he continues it below, as if to highlight your point. Oh sweet irony. 71.115.9.77 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:01, 27 April 2009 (UTC).

 * Others are seeing this elsewhere, with posts long on hyperbole, sarcasm and insult, but regrettably short on civility or a respect for WP procedure (behaviors that I and others have already tried to warn him about).
 * Ian: Please consider debating matters calmly and try to work constructively with other editors — it'll make things a lot more pleasant for everyone. Thanks  Huwmanbeing  ☀  ★  17:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

"Ian's endless paragraphs of inane whining." Wow, you're blatently complaining about one taking note of untruths. Thanks for being upfront about that. "If only he had put 10% of the effort of the above paragraphs into fixing it himself, wiki would be working like it's supposed to." If you'd read through my comments and looked through article history, you'd know that's not true. Therefore either you have not done so or you're "trying to be misleading" (if only by hiding your not speaking English as your native language or hiding your still being a schoolchild). "Funny that he says it's not one of his areas of interest when his postings clearly indicate that he's quite passionate about it." Wow, you may attract complaints from Wikipedia higher ups by making jokes like that, as they will notice that you did the same thing as me. Though you probably are right that they won't care that the points of all my discussions, here and elsewhere, were about truth and accuracy rather than a passion for school district boundaries. "When you find that 90% of your changes are reversed, that means people tend to disagree with them, and maybe (just maybe) they're wrong." Wow, so you're actually admitting that you agree with slavery, as I referred to above, because more than 90% of Confederates accepted slavery, and you're actually coming out to admit that you figure people believing things shows them to be true, facts being irrelevant. I think you'd better get ready for a visit from Homeland Security, as you're "clearly indicating" that you believe in the actions of evil governments where over 90% of their residents go along with them, no matter what those are. Now I see why you won't sign your comments, as you're supposed to. That won't protect you however. "Then if you REALLY care about it SO much (as is implied by the energy you put in above), you come to a compromise. Or, if you decide the wiki system doesn't work, you stop using it." Yow. You are denying that my giving up after each of my corrections of untruths is reversed is "compromising" but you also are denying that I should analyze and make note of what about "the wiki system doesn't work" rather than simply ignoring you all and leaving you all to wallow in your unreality. You can't have it both ways; choose one. Oh, you aren't about to start worshipping me, are you? Or to suggest I be nominated for a Nobel Prize, for unbelievably wasting time pointing out errors, that inevitably will be ignored? Please don't. Though those ideas are less creepy than the "implication" that an attempt is being made to extort me into correcting all the untruths on article pages (even pretending that those changes wouldn't all be soon reversed) rather than expending writing effort on Talk pages. If you really wish me to quit posting on Talk pages, why don't you get the Wikipedia editors to set consistent policies and make firm and public decisions about the things I've asked about all over, rather than editors repeatedly disagreeing with each other but denying there are any disagreements? Yes, I'm extorting you to get results for me from Wikipedia decision-makers (if there are any).IanHistor (talk) 21:53, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Ian: You state: You agree with slavery and You're clearly indicating that you believe in the actions of evil governments where over 90% of their residents go along with them, no matter what those are. How is this pertinent in any way to a discussion of how to structure data on Midwestern school districts?  In addition to being both an insult and a deliberate misinterpretation of what another user is saying, leaping to such hyperbolic accusations only lowers the tone of debate.

 * The point is that Wikipedia works on consensus, so if you find yourself alone or in a small minority on a particular issue, then you're less likely to get your way than if you're in the majority. (It's not impossible, just less likely, all things being equal.)  That's how Wikipedia works.  Please note: no one is insisting that's how anything else in the whole world should work — just Wikipedia.  If you dislike that policy, you're certainly welcome to debate it, but Wikipedia_talk:Consensus might be a better forum.

 * Note too that truth is not the standard for what goes into an article; verifiability is. Huwmanbeing  ☀  ★  18:02, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Chase Caldwell
The noteable people section seems a bit biased on Chase Caldwell, His Wikipedia page (recently created) was tagged by another editor as pure vandalism. It seems this is also. Dragoon478 (talk) 17:23, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Notable people
For the Notable people section, a good rule to follow in college towns like this is if the person in question only lived in the city while a student, then they should be listed on that university's notable alumni section, but not in the city article. Typically, notable people for a town are those that grew up in a city or lived there for an extended period of time (i.e. considered residents). As such, yes, there will be several who overlap as both being from Valpo and alumni of VU, but most VU alums won't be listed here. That not only helps keep the lists under control, but keeps the VU list from simply being completely duplicated here.

For notable faculty, yes, they should be listed in the notable people section (or separate list if it exists) if a reliable source is provided that states they actually live(d) in the given city. Just because someone works at VU doesn't mean they actually live in Valparaiso. And yes, that means in the city limits.

I placed a "See also" to the VU notable people list in the Notable people section here since they are related, but still separate. See List of people from Kent, Ohio and Kent, Ohio for examples of a similar college town. --JonRidinger (talk) 17:19, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

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Add history of excluding African Americans
Exclusion of black residents is an unfortunate but central part of Valparaiso's history. Since I know this is a controversial topic, I want to propose my edit to the History section here before adding it. It would go after the paragraph about Valparaiso University and before the paragraph about Valparaiso's role as a transport hub.

"From the 1890s until 1969, there were no African-American residents in Valparaiso. This has been attributed to Valparaiso being a sundown town. There was also substantial activity by the Ku Klux Klan, which negotiated to purchase Valparaiso University in 1923. The first African-American family to move to Valparaiso faced intimidation and eventually left the city when a visiting relative was murdered. In recent years, the city's racial composition has diversified."

To clarify the reference to the book Sundown Towns, on page 67 it says, "I identified a total of 231 Indiana towns as all-white. I was able to get information as to the racial policies of 95, and of those, I confirmed all 95 as sundown towns. In Indiana, I have yet to uncover any overwhelmingly white town that on-site research failed to confirm as a sundown town. Ninety-five out of 95 is an astounding proportion; statistical analysis shows that it is quite likely that 90 to 100% of all 231 were sundown towns. They ranged from tiny hamlets to cities in the 10,000-50,000 population range, including Huntington (former vice president Dan Quayle's hometown) and Valparaiso (home of Valparaiso University)."

I am interested to hear either more proposed sources or criticism of the validity of the cited sources, especially from Magnolia677. Wyattgclarke (talk) 23:09, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * The two sources from nwi.com are behind paywalls, and this source is a library entry for a book about sundown towns which says only "Includes information on...Valparaiso (Indiana)". As long as your sources support your text it would be a useful inclusion. Magnolia677 (talk) 16:40, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Valparaiso, Indiana


text:
Talk:Vincennes, Indiana

Time Zone
The time zone shouldn't be in the introduction. I could see it being worth while in a section later in the article, but Vincennes can be summarized quite nicely without ever mentioning what time it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.109.54.114 (talk) 23:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

 * As an Illinois resident who lives near Vincennes, IN, I can assure you that time zone is a central issue an encyclopedia should address concerning this town. I agree that it shouldn't be in the introduction, but it really needs to be addressed in the article. Just now I spent 10 minutes trying to track down a valid answer to what time it is in Vincennes, and it was nearly impossible to find a reliable answer. Even the Vincennes, IN page said it was EDT (-6 UTC), which is also wrong because EDT is -5 UTC. Wikipedia does have a page on the Indiana Time Zone controversy, but that is not necessarily the first place a user would look. Intreverend (talk) 20:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Blue flash roller coaster
Does anyone think it should be added as an attraction?

 * Probably. It received significant attention in blogs.  However, the articles I read about it did say that he built it for himself and his family. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 15:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone told me that if you call his house, the guy who owns it can schedule a day for you to come and ride it. I think it could be added.

I also think the Blue Flash roller coaster might deserve its own article. It has gotten significant attention and is an attraction. dont ever come here also called the Dirty V

Yes, someone should add it to the Attractions list.

Sentence fragment in the introduction
Can we rewrite this to be a bit more readable? I presume this is talking about the Alices, but that's not a certainty given the way it is currently written.

1923 and 1981 IHSAA State Basketball Champions. 2002 IHSAA State Baseball Champions.

Tjkiesel 19:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Capt. Vigo
I'm adding some lines. Someone forgot to mention the Italian Captain Francesco Vigo (1747-1836) from the region of Piedmont, whose financial assistance and services were absolutely fundamental and allowed General George Rogers Clark to conquer Vincennes. In southern Indiana a country is named after him. Jack 18:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Going Down?
My World Book 1984 list the population at 20,857, what's up? moving to suburbs?

Actually, the opposite is true: As fewer jobs are available in the area, people are moving to the bigger cities in the state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.211.228.204 (talk) 03:05, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Baseball
Lincoln High School won the Sectional against Jasper 5-3, Garrett Oexmann pitched seven innings.

Sieur Juchereau
The tannery referenced here (citing a very weak source) is probably the tannery that Juchereau established near the mouth of the Ohio. There are a number of scholarly and other articles about this tannery now easily available through a google search; see especially John Fortier and Donald Chaput, A Historical Reexamination of Juchereau's Illinois Tannery, Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society 1969, pp 385-406 http://dig.lib.niu.edu/ISHS/ishs-1969winter/ishs-1969winter-385.pdf, who cite several earlier works. The contributor cites "Derleth", which is probably August William Derleth who, in addition to writing "Vincennes: portal to the West" (Prentice Hall 1969) wrote of the supernatural and many other genres. See his wiki entry. Unless there is another more authoritative source regarding Juchereau establishing a tannery at Vincennes, this "fact" should be deleted. Jane Adams, prof. emerita, Southern Illinois University

title: Talk:Vincennes, Indiana