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Talk:Persian phonology

WikiProject Afghanistan
WikiProject Afghanistan removed, because this article doesn't deal with special phonetics of Dari, but the Iranian Persian, so it is not a part of project Afghanistan. Mubed (talk) 01:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Examples
Hopefully the examples will be minimal pairs, and uncontroversial as well. --jonsafari 19:39, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * All examples should be translated. Æµ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 03:36, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Consonants
I have two questions about the consonants. Maybe the article makes it clear but I'm not seeing it. I noticed the /t/ and /d/ phonemes are described in the chart as alveolars. Are they apical (as in English) or laminal ("dental") as in Spanish? The second question is regarding the /p/, /t/, and /k/ phonemes. Are they aspirated or totally unaspirated or would this difference be allophonic as in English "tough" vs "stuff"?WilliamThweatt 04:19, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

 * According to Mahootian (1997, p. 287-8) the alveolar stops are "either apico-alveolar or apico-dental" and "voiceless plosives /p, t, c (ʧ), k/ are aspirated in syllable-initial position and unaspirated at the end of a syllable" (and presumably unaspirated in non-initial onsets). I suppose I should mention this kind of stuff in the article. Good questions, BTW.  --jonsafari 07:03, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

In Persian, stops are usually aspirated, thus aspiration is never phonemic, i.e. it never changes the meaning of a word. However, note that in many instances, unaspirated p or t would be realised as b or t. This is because Persian does not aspirate as strongly as e.g. Armenian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.227.212.213 (talk • contribs)

There appears to be an error in the chart--for the curly-tailed n. The example is the Persian for color; but the IPA spelling does not contain the curly tailed n.  I'd change it, but I don't know if it should be curly-tailed-n followed by g--as suggested under Allophonic Variants--or just curly tailed n.Halfb1t (talk) 01:29, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm a native Persian speaker from Iran and the dialect I speak is mostly close to Therani Persian. There's certainly a [ɡ] after [ŋ] in "رنگ" "color" in correct slow or emphatic speech, or generally when reading a text, especially poetry. The same is true in normal colloquial speech when followed by a vowel. But if followed by a consonant, there's either no /ɡ/ or, I think, there's an unreleased /ɡ/, i.e., a [ɡ̚]. I'm not yet sure I've understood unreleased consonants well, so I might be wrong. AM2693MS (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Instrumental phonetic studies
Any references to instrumental phonetic studies out there? There is only one I know of is Agharasouli et al (date?) Palatographic specification of lingual-palatal consonants in persian language. Audiology, Vol 14, No. 23, Pages 12-22. Available online at [http://diglib.tums.ac.ir/pub/search.asp?kw=palatography (http://diglib.tums.ac.ir/pub/magmng/pdf/2086.pdf). (posted anonymously by 81.86.104.165)

 * I'll check out the ref. I'm not sure off the top of my head.  BTW, you should consider getting a user account; you seem to have a background in this stuff :-) –jonsafari 06:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

vowels - historical shifts
Tajik     i  e    u  ů   a o             ┌↑┐ ↑   ┌↑┐ ↑   ↑ ↑ Early NP i ī ē   u ū ō   a ā ↓ ↓ ↓  ↓ ↓ ↓   ↓ ↓   Afghan    e i ē   o u ō   a ā ↓ └↓┘  ↓ └↓┘   ↓ ↓   Iranian   e  ī    o  ū    a ā

Windfuhr, the source quoted here, appears to be rather more familiar with the Tehrani type of Persian. I suggest a revision as follows, and list the reasons.

Tajik     i  e    u  ů   a o  ai  au           ┌↑┐ ↑   ┌↑┐ ↑   ↑ ↑  ↑   ↑ Early NP i ī ē   u ū ō   a ā  ai  au           ↓ ↓ ↓   ↓ ↓ ↓   ↓ ↓  ↓   ↓ Afghan   i ī ē   u ū ō   a ā  ai  au           ↓ └↓┘   ↓ └↓┘   ↓ ↓ Iranian  e  ī    o  ū    a ā  ei  ou

The symbols in this chart are phonemic, not phonetic. In terms of the actual phonetic details, the Tajik vowel /ů/ is a central mid rounded vowel (close to [ɵ]?), cf. Baizoyev 2004. The Tajik /o/ is really not that different from the so-called /ā/of Afghan and Tehrani Persian: varying between [ɒ] (British RP "Tom") and [ɔ] (Midwestern American "law"). Afghan /i/ is close to [ɪ] and /u/ is close to [ʊ ], while /ī ē ū ō/ are not necessarily longer, just more [+tense]. I leave any explicit details about Tehrani pronunciation to someone more at home with that type of Persian.
 * 1. the descriptive detail of the Afghan Persian vowels is based on:
 * a) my own experience of having lived in Kabul for 14 months (1970-1971) and having   spoken its dialect of Persian as my daily-use language during that time.
 * b) the analysis of that careful phonetician, Georg Morgenstierne, in his paper "Persian Texts from Afgahanistan" (Acta Orientalia 6:309-28 - 1928).
 * 2. The preservation of the early NP system into Kabuli Farsi is suggested by the fact that it is the most conservative of all the dialects.
 * 3. Preservation of the length distinctions as symbols, whatever be the details of their actual pronunciation, is recommended because this preserves a unity in Islamic culture: instead of having an Arab word مداخل transcribed as Arabic mudāxil, "Persian" modāxel, Tajik mudoxil, Urdu mudāxil, they can all be transcribed with the original Arab system as mudāxil, then we see that we are dealing with basically the same system all the way from Arabic in the west to Urdu (and even Bengali) in the east, without having to jump through the hoops of the various local changes, changes which are very slight and need not be reflected in a different transcription ( unless of course Iranians have a very strong need to consider themselves as different from the Arabs as possible, even in such a small thing as how to spell their words in romanisation ).Jakob37 07:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I simply copied this chart from Winfuhr (1987). I had no other reliable sources available to me at the time to offer differing viewpoints.  However, I agree that a phonetic analysis would be much more useful in this article, especially since the current romanizations can be somewhat ambiguous.  A phonemic transcription is appropriate for other articles discussing Persian, for example Persian grammar, but this specific article should be as precise as possible.  Please use whatever means necessary to make the chart reflect actual phonetic realizations, citing reliable sources.  –jonsafari 19:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Need more info on the allophones of ق غ
There needs to be more info on the allophones of these two phonemes. azalea_pomp
 * I added a short comment. Jahangard 04:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I think someone definitely needs to check into those consonants. As a native Persian speaker, I can say that I've never heard those two pronounced as a velar fricative, usually its more of a uvular plosive. I might at least add uvular plosive to the IPA pronunciation, because velar fricative is wrong, that's the arabic pronunciation of غ, but that's not how it's pronounced in Persian. This government site seems to back me up on this one

http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/february/farsi.html#stru

ThePrznKonection —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 05:33, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

 * The National Virtual Translation Center's website isn't exactly the most solid source. On the other hand, the Handbook of the International Phonetic Association (1999:124-125) does back up the claim that [ɣ] exists in Persian (by an educated native speaker from Tehran).  I suppose I should get around to citing this in the article.  –jonsafari 21:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

 * As I native speaker from Tehran I am pretty sure that the two are plosive and not fricative. Anyhow I looked up the letter غ on the Persian Wikipedia and accordingly it says

 * .تلفظ آن در فارسی معیار همانند ق است

.در بعضی لهجه‌های فارسی آن را به شیوه‌ای متفاوت از ق ادا می‌کنند. صدای آن در عربی و بعضی لهجه‌های فارسی چیزی میان ق و خ است

 * In English that is "The Pronounciation of that (غ) in Standard Persian is the same as qaf (ق). In some dialects of Persians it's pronounced in a different manner than qaf. It's sound in Arabic and some Persian dialects is something between qaf and khe (خ)" (presumably a fricative). I presume they mean from this that qeyn is pronounced as an uvular plosive [q] (like qaf) in standard Iranian Persian, however in arabic and some dialects of Persian it is pronounced as a fricative [ɣ]. This makes the most sense. Because as a native speaker I have always heard both qeyn and qaf pronounced [q]. However, [ɣ] is the Arabic pronunciation of qeyn, therefore it is plausible that in some dialects, particularly those in Khuzestan and other regions subject to more Arab influence would pronounce qeyn as a [ɣ]. In this light I think both [ɣ] and [q] should be given as allophones on this page. 72.29.211.18 06:16, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

 * The letter غ is often pronounced as a voiced velar fricative [ɣ] in the Persian of Afghanistan (cf.Farhadi et al.) and Tajikistan (cf. Baizoyev & Hayward), also in Persian words in as far as they are pronounced as such in the Indian subcontinent. For certain purposes this vast area is considered as "Eastern Persian"; it is one thing to acknowledge that the Persian of Tehran is typically taught in schools around the world, it is another thing to refer to it as "Standard Persian", a term which speakers of Eastern Persian might well object to. How would people in the US feel if British RP were referred to as "Standard English"?Jakob37 02:33, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Ref?
Quoting the article:
 * However, the classic pronunciation difference (for غ and ق) is preserved in the eastern variants of Persian (i.e. Dari and Tajiki), as well as the southern dialects of the modern Iranian variety (e.g. Yazdi and Kermani dialects).

Does anybody have a reliable source for the above statement? Thanks. –jonsafari 04:22, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Chart for vowels
Better examples should be given. There is no need to focus on short two-letter words. Also, the example for /ou/ (/kou/ کو weevil) should be replaced by a word which is more frequently used (this word is from local dialects and its standard version is /kæk/). It seems that /ou/ is given as the modern Iranian pronounciation of what was pronounced as /æʊ/ in the classic Persian (for example, "و" in نوروز and خسرو). If that's the case, then I wonder why /ou/ is used (the actual pronounciation is closer to /o:/ or /ow/). Windfuhr shows it as "ou" instead of /o:/ or /ow/, simply because he dousn't use IPA symbols (he shows /ɒː/ as "ā", and as "ei"). We shoud note that Windfuhr doesn't use IPA symbols (for example, he uses "ā" as /ɒː/). Jahangard 04:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

 * The examples are there to demonstrate a minimal pair. Regarding your other point, IPA is the common currency of phonology descriptions in general.  Using non-IPA letters like "ā" can lead to ambiguity (eg. rounded or non-rounded?).  It's too bad Windfuhr didn't use IPA, but that still doesn't bind us to use his transcription.  Both minimal pairs and IPA usage are pretty basic things in a phonological description of a language.  –jonsafari 01:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

ɒː
As a native speaker with profound knowledge about the language in every respect, I do not agree with [ɒː] as the standard variant of long a. This is a new phenomenon and only to be encountered in what is called the modern Tehrani dialect of Persian, i.e. it is DIALECTAL. All other native speakers in Iran use [aː] when speaking standard language, and either [aː] or some sort of [o/o:] when using dialect (e.g. some Yazdi dialects). Hence I suggest changing ɒː to [aː]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.227.212.213 (talk • contribs)
 * If you have some academic bibliographic sources of the variations amongst various Persian dialects, then write an article discussing these. Azalea pomp (talk) 06:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I've not studied linguisitics or something like that, but I was always interested in languages, specially my native language Farsi, so what I write is maybe not very scientifical. I think the Tehrani dialect is the de facto standard for spoken Persian. So everything else is considered as dialectal. The main goal of such articles is to teach a learner of the Persian language to speak properly, so it is important to teach the mainstream language, which is by now the Tehrani dialect. Mubed (talk) 01:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Mubed, you are right. A for the sound, it is open back rounded vowel. If anybody wants a reference, then mine is "Avaşenasi ye zæban e Farsi" by "Yædollah e Sæmære" --Alijsh (talk) 09:50, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

 * How can a vowel be "open" and "rounded" at the same time? Jakob37 (talk) 06:06, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
 * "Open" is a term that denotes a certain direction in formant frequencies. It was formerly associated with the physical feature of the mouth being more open.  You can still have rounded lips with a more open mouth. — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]  16:35, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Colloquial Tehran Persian is far from identical with the national standard of Persian taught in Iran; it has idiosyncratic features of its own. People don't usually talk exemplary "schoolbook language" when in private, and standard languages are not even necessarily, perhaps not even usually, based on the dialect of the capital (in fact, historically, Persian was not native to the Tehran region). Colloquial Beijing Chinese is very different from prescribed Chinese pronunciation and grammar. Estuary English is very different from conservative RP or BBC newscaster English. Linguasphere has a nice term for this: "urban counterstream". People refuse to be assimilated to prescribed standards and stubbornly insist on their idiosyncrasies.
 * For example, I've been taught by Wolfgang Schulze that word-final /ɒːn/ is often realised with such a low (closed) vowel in the Tehran dialect that it effectively merges with /uːn/, one step further than the mentioned dialectal pronunciation /oː/ for /ɒː/. I've never heard Persian long ā rendered as central or even front, it is always back. The IP is probably confused by the symbols [a] (which designates a front or central vowel) and [ɒ], which stands for a back and rounded vowel, but not as high as [ɔ], so it never approaches Persian /o/. The realisation [ɒ] is not unique to Tehran, it is ubiquitous in Persian and possibly universal (perhaps even beyond, as Schulze taught this realisation is generally found in Iranian languages). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:34, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

 * As a nativ speaker and somebody, who has studied linguistics in the university I'm sure that we don't have ɒː in the standard persian language, the correct equivalent is ɑ.  Diako  « Talk » 01:18, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Example on the article page
I don't know the reference of this example, but for me as a native speaker of Persian it sounds very artificial or maybe like a dialect such as Dari or even like the way a non-native speaker would use the words, so I suggest to change it. I didn't do it myself, because I'm not very familiar with the IPA-codes and also because it was referenced to a book, which may be a standard literature. But if you want to do the IPA part, here is MY version of this example written romanized:

Ruzi/Yek ruz baade shomal va xorshid sare inke ke kodaam yek qavitar ast daêvaa mikardand. ("aayaa kodaam" and "yek ruzi" are absoloutly wrong! "baaham" is colloquial.)

Actually the verb "daêvaa kardan" is colloquial, so I think, when using it, the whole sentence must be changed into colloquial language:

Ye ruz baade shomaal o xorshid baaham daêvaa mikardan ke kudum qavitare. Mubed (talk) 01:43, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Diphthongs
"ey" is not a diphthong in Persian. It comprises of phonemes "e" and "y". It is easy to prove it: replace the "y" in "mey" (wine) with "s" and you get "mes" (copper), replace it with "h" and you get "meh" (fog). What I said for "ey", also applies to "ây", "uy", and "oy". They are not diphthong. I'll remove the relevant parts saying that "ey" is a diphthong. Alijsh (talk) 09:36, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

 * If "ey" "ây", "uy", and "oy" are not diphthongs, then what is your idea of a true diphthong??

 * Also, isn't it in large part dependent on the viewpoint of native speakers? For example, the "aj" ("ay" for you non-IPA guys) sound in English "I" or "final" is considered by many native speakers of English to be just one sound, simply the "long i", and furthermore it is written (most often) with just one letter. But some foreign listener who knew nothing about English writing or grammar would probably consider it a diphthong. Now, in written Persian, these sounds are written with two components, even if the first(fatha, zamma etc.) may not be clearly indicated, they are still there in the pronunciation. Jakob37 (talk) 04:59, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Alijsh, the term diphthong is sort of phonologically ambiguous in that it can refer either to a single vowel phoneme in which the place of articulation moves, or a pair of vowel phonemes run together. I would argue that Persian has a diphthong /ei/ based on the minimal pair /ke/ "that" and /kei/ "when".  Whether /ei/ is a single phoneme or a pair of phonemes doesn't really matter insofar as it's pronounced as a diphthong. ǝɹʎℲxoɯ ( contrib ) 18:07, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

@Jakob37: What I wrote was based on the book "آواشناسی زبان فارسی" (Phonetics of Persian language) by Dr. Yadollâh Samare, which is a reference book. It wasn't a casual claim. They comprise of "vowel" + "y" and are separable. In any case, I don't insist but now that you are considering "ey" as a diphthong, please include all "ây" (čây: tea), "ay" (sayyâd: hunter, qayyem), "oy" (xoy: sweat), and "uy" (ruy: zinc) in the list of diphthongs. They have been all discussed in the book.

@ǝɹʎℲxoɯ: From "ke" vs. "key" example, you are saying that "ey" is a phoneme and stands on its own. Then, why is its "y" breakable in می نوشین /me.ye nu.šin/ or پی تو /pe.ye to/ or پیامد /pe.yâ.mad/? It has been disproved this way in the above-mentioned book. By the way, nâ (نا) and nây (نای) have different meanings. So, at least /ây/ must be added to the list. --Alijsh (talk) 20:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Alijsh, good points. All I'm saying is that some definitions of diphthong would include /ey/ and /ây/ despite the fact that they split across syllable boundaries in morphologically determined ways.  So we should clarify.  Given the evidence you cite, I agree that we should distinguish /ey/ and /ây/ from the phonemic /ou/ diphthong.  If so, we should explain the definition of diphthong used in the article, cite the source that distinguishes them, and explain why the commonly found sequences /ey/, /ây/, etc. don't fit the definition of a single-phoneme diphthong.  I don't have access to the book, but if you're willing to write a few sentences to explain this, I'd be all for it!!  ǝɹʎℲxoɯ ( contrib ) 23:31, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Dear ǝɹʎℲxoɯ: /ou/ has been /æu/ in classical Persian, which is preserved in many dialects including official dialects Afghan(istani) and Tajik(istani) Persian (Persian is a pluricentric language). /ou/ or /æu/ is not a diphthong either. It comprises of "o/a" and "v". Its "v" is realized during inflection or derivation. For example, now (new) + suffix "-in" makes "novin" (modern). Or "raw/row", the present stem of raftan (to go), becomes mi-rav-am (I go; I am going), pey-rav-i (following), pey-rov-ân (followers); xusraw becomes xusravi, xusravân. So, from a phonemic viewpoint, "ây", "ay", "ey", "oy", "uy" and "ou" comprise of a vowel and a consonant and are not diphthong but from a phonetic viewpoint, they are all diphthong. This is the translation of the concluding paragraph in the mentioned book (Do you know Persian? If yes, I can write you the original text). I don't know if such a case exists in other languages. On second thought, I think the mainstream viewpoint is phonetic. So, please list all "ây", "ay", "ey", "oy", "uy" and "ou" as Persian diphthongs. By the way, we have a discussion about it in Unilang's Persian forum: Persian diphthongs - Regards --Alijsh (talk) 16:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Cool, thanks, those are some interesting minimal pairs! I don't understand Persian well enough to understand the original, I think, but that's interesting stuff.  I think we should note in the article that all of these diphthong sounds occur and also that they typically do not constitute single phonemes. ǝɹʎℲxoɯ ( contrib ) 06:55, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

The word "diphthong" is simply descriptive: two (or more) vowel sounds juxtaposed. It does not have any "official" meaning in phonology, and what is or is not a "vowel-sound" also can be a controversial topic sometimes. Of course analysis is also related to transcription. For example, most people would say that English "cute" has 4 phonemes: k + j + u + t, but a minority of phonologists support a view that was traditional until recent decades. We could ask: if there is the very common combination ju, then why are combinations with other vowels (e.g. ja, jo, je, ji, jʌ, jæ etc.) almost completely absent from English? The human mind (subconscious linguistic intelligence) likes to work with patterns, categories, it likes to minimize strange, irregular things. Therefore, we could say that the so-called "ju" is really just one entity, perhaps to be symbolized by /y/, thus = /kyt/. This /y/ COULD be described as a "rising diphthong", but that is not a natural class in English, so it is simpler to see it as a single sound (traditionally the "long u"), often written with a single letter in traditional orthography, just like the "long i" mentioned above.

So the question for Persian is: how do these vowel-combinations fit into patterns in the phonological system, how do native speakers conceive them, etc. Also, I would recommend an analysis for Persian which is more generalized and inclusive, not just applicable for a certain kind of Persian spoken in Tehran. For example, "Go!" - raw ! and "I go" - mi-ravam may be true in Tehran, but in Kabul it is the same sound: raw ! and me:rawam (of course these are both literary pronunciations, not the colloquial bu-ro: and me:rum ). So, it all depends on what kind of scheme and patterns you are trying to show, there is no single "correct" phonemic system.Jakob37 (talk) 06:48, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Jakob, you've precisely highlighted the ambiguity we're talking about. I think that for now I'm just going to (a) list the possible phonetic diphthongs in Persian, (b) note that they do not constitute phonemes via the evidence given by Alijsh above, and (c) refer readers to the book he cited.  ǝɹʎℲxoɯ ( contrib ) 06:55, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Vowel length
This article is somewhat inconsistent in its discussion of vowel length. It states, somewhat confusing: Diachronically, Persian possessed a distinction of length in its underlying vowel inventory, contrasting the long vowels /iː/, /uː/, /ɒː/ with the short vowels /e/, /o/, /æ/ respectively.

The /iː/, /uː/, /ɒː/ vowels are marked for length in the vowel chart, but not in the vowel diagram (which is from the IPA Handbook and describes the educated Tehran dialect). Elsewhere, /-i-/, /-u-/, /-ɒ-/ are unmarked for length in the phonemic transcriptions of example Persian words.

As I understand it, vowel length per se is NOT contrastive in Tehran Persian. It may be true that, historically, length was actually contrastive, but today there is no minimal pair contrasted solely by vowel length, at least in dialects where /æ/ and /ɒ/ contrast qualitatively. So I think that the distinction of "long" and "short" vowels is an anachronism, much like in some English dialects. We should probably stop labeling /iː/, /uː/, /ɒː/ with the length marker in this article. Does anyone have any reference that suggests that these vowels are actually lengthened in any context? If so, perhaps this could be noted under allophonic variants. ǝɹʎℲxoɯ ( contrib ) 17:48, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

 * See Persian language, which treats the quantity contrast problem much better than this article: several analyses are possible (much like in German, I might note). However, unfortunately, it doesn't say anything about phonetic quantity. There is an argument for treating quantity as an active contrast, though: historically short vowels are unstable and are affected by assimilation or (with the exception of /æ/) syncope, while the historically long vowels do not show any such variation. This is pointed out here on p. 13, where it is also observed that there is no discernible phonetic vowel length distinction in contemporary Western Persian (apparently even in Afghan Persian and Tajik, although the Iranica is unclear on this point; it indicates that some Tajik varieties have retained the length distinction in the high vowels, though this may be either by quantity or quality). Their behaviour is the main reason for still treating length as an active feature of the vocalic system. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:44, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Romanization
Persian has an, so to speak, academic-standard Latin script used in various books and dictionaries (including educational ones). Only the characters of this script should be mentioned in a formal (reference) article like "Persian phonology". Here is not a place to mention the characters found in so-called Fingilish that has no rule and everybody writes it as he wants (randomly). I modified the Romanization column of the consonant section and if everybody agrees, I'll do the same for the vowel section.--Alijsh (talk) 07:02, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. See Romanization of Persian. — ★ Parsa ☞ talk 18:30, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Persian stress - or pitch
A sentence should be added such as 'In most dialects of Persian (Isfahani is an exception) a stressed syllable is also always pronounced with raised pitch.' I don't think this is mentioned in Windfuhr or any of the other books, but nonetheless it seems very characteristic of Persian, and it is one of the main differences between between Persian and English pronunciation. (I am not sure if it applies to Afghani Persian.) Does anyone know of any instrumental studies that might confirm this? Andrew Goodson (talk) 08:16, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

 * There is a recent experimental study in Lingua which shows that word prominence is realized by F0 movements alone. So, technically, Persian has 'accent', not 'stress'. I will add this to the article. Divaane (talk) 07:53, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Can someone please confirm where the stress falls in Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's name? Is it, or something else? Lfh (talk) 16:16, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Yes, it is correct. But note that any noun when used as a vocative receives stress on the first syllable. Divaane (talk) 07:56, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

24st consonant in Persian
In the name of god

Also is said that Persian has 23 consonant, but it's false. When yuo see Moin lexicon (one of the greatest dictionaris in Persian), yuo will see two pronunciation for "ن". 2nd pronunciation is same as english, "ŋ". when "ن" come before "گ" or "ک" and there isn't any vowel between them, Persian allow us to use "ŋ" or "n" for "ن" pronunciation. for example, for "جَنگ", we can say "jæŋg" and "jæng", and both of them are quite common. Of course many people do not pey their attention to their pronounciation of "ن".

--Arfarshchi (talk) 18:44, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

The central vowel of Tajik
The character ů is clearly not IPA. Shouldn't we use /ɵ/ or something, like in Tajik language? --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:23, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Focus
There seem to be at least four different topics that this article attempts to cover: This is in principle not impossible, as e.g. English phonology demonstrates. But since we have separate articles for Dari language and Tajik language, perhaps it would be productive to treat Dari phonology and Tajik phonology separately, and leave this article for Farsi. On the other hand, there exist other varieties yet, e.g. the "Dari-like" Aimaq, and it is not clear what their fate should be under this type of a treatment. -- Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 20:25, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) The phonology of Persian in general, to the extent that generalizations about this can be made
 * 2) The phonology of standard Iranian Persian in particular
 * 3) The phonologies of other Persian varieties, such as Dari and Tajik
 * 4) The historical relationship of the Persian varieties
 * I'm afraid we have a couple of obstacles here. First, I doubt there are enough sources that treat Iranian Farsi and Afghanistani Dari independently. Tajik is better in that respect being much different from the both, though a lot of sources must have been written in Russian not in English. Second, I doubt that there are enough users here with a proper competence in the subject (it can be see by the generally poor state of Persian-related articles). Anyway, I'd be glad if somebody with the competence write three independent articles, but for now it is better to have everything in one place, than to have three (or four) poor written stubs.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 18:58, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Long â as a diphthong
What accent is it that pronounces long â as a diphthong, pretty much like ou in English "house", maybe more precisely [ɑo̯] or so? I'm not a native speaker of Persian, and I'd never heard it before I heard this song:. It's not as distinct in hâl and mâl probably due to the following L. But when he says bâd, fanâ, dârid, etc., it's definitely a diphthong. Is this just the singer's personal idiosyncrasy or is it an accent? Thanks a lot in advance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.206.129.98 (talk) 14:09, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm a native speaker from Iran, and I'd love to help if I can, but the video is no longer available through the link you included. Could you add another link or give the name of the song at least? Right now I can't think of an accent like you described, but my parents know more about different accents and they're not available now, so wait till I can ask them. AM2693MS (talk) 22:05, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Tajik transliterations
Personally I think the addition of Tajik transliterations in addition to IPA makes the article too messy. Tajik is a slightly different language, with a different script and slightly different grammar and phonology to Persian. Shouldn't this article just concentrate on Persian? A separate article could discuss Tajik phonology, inasmuch as it differs from standard Persian as spoken in Iran. Kanjuzi (talk) 11:22, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree. The transliteration should be a romanized one such as DMG. See Romanization of Persian. Tajik phonology should be separate. — ★ Parsa ☞ talk 18:25, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
 * That's the reason for the Cyrillic letters? Yeah, it confused me, and it seems unnecessary. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:48, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I have now removed most of the Cyrillic transcriptions. They are particularly unwanted when the Tajik pronunciation differs from the Iranian, e.g. in mixām 'I want', where Tajik has mē-. Kanjuzi (talk) 04:06, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Spelling and examples
In the "Spelling and examples" table for consonants, for some reason the transcriptions given are in the Eastern dialect, not standard Persian, e.g. /eːˈɾɒːn/ for /iːˈɾɒːn/. Surely either both should be given or just the standard Persian. Kanjuzi (talk) 04:39, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

aspiration
The voiceless obstruents /p, t, t͡ʃ, k/ are aspirated much like their English counterpart - in fact, /t͡ʃ/ is never aspirated in English (see GIMSON p. 160) https://baselbern.swissbib.ch/Record/284768715) . Ternes/Majidi also don't mention aspiration of Persian /t͡ʃ/ (IPA HANDBOOK, p. 125; https://baselbern.swissbib.ch/Record/258838426) Wathiik (talk) 17:36, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not a reliable source, but I think that English shows the different shades of allophony that stops do, which includes aspiration initially or at the beginning of a stressed syllable and less aspiration in most other positions.  initially sounds more like the aspirated  in the Armenian examples in the article on Aspirated consonant than the unaspirated . But of course, in articles one has to follow the reliable sources if they insist that our fortis affricate isn't ever aspirated. — Eru·tuon 18:07, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

I guess you're right, since Roach (English Phonetics and Phonology; CUP 1983) writes: /t͡ʃ/ ... is slightly aspirated in the positions where / p t k / are aspirated, but not strongly enough for it to be necessary for foreign learners to give much attention to it. (p. 52) So I guess that settles it... why doesn't GIMSON mention this though? Will definitely look into it nevertheless... be that as it may, of course /t͡ʃ/ is often glottalized in English, just like /p t k/... Wathiik (talk) 09:47, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Lack of consistency
The beginning of the Consonants section talks about /ɣ/ and /q/ phonemes, but then in the spelling table they're replaced by /ʁ/ and /ɢ/. So what are they? It's explained how they're pronounced in Iranian Persian, but for Dari and Tajik it's mentioned that "the classic pronunciations of غ and ق are preserved". But what are the classic pronunciations? The text talks about [ɣ] and [q], the table gives examples of [ʁ] and [ɢ]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.146.41.16 (talk) 16:08, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

PCVC Speech Dataset
It would be great if interested editors could comment on the AfD discussion for this article at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PCVC Speech Dataset. Thank you. ~Kvng (talk) 14:37, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Some of the Vowels Seem Wrong
I asked a native Farsi speaker friend to pronounce some of the words, and I compared with Wikipedia's IPA_vowel_chart_with_audio. It seems that /to/  تو   "you" (singular) has the vowel [o̞], and /tɒː/   تا  "until" has the vowel [ʌ].

~calc_rulz (talk) 3:46, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

I'm a native Farsi speaker (from Iran). I've not yet totally mastered the IPA chart, but as far as I can tell, I think you're right about [o̞] in "تو", or maybe it's rather something between [o] and [o̞]. But about the vowel in "تا", I think it does sound like [ʌː] in slow and emphatic speech, or if you ask a native to say it in isolation. But it's more like [ɒ] in normal speech, though perhaps not as low as that. If you check the vowel chart for Tehrani Persian in this article, you'll see these seem to be reflected in the chart (/o/ is shown rather close to [o̞], and /ɒ/ is not as low as cardinal [ɒ]. A similar thing to /o/ can be said to be true about /e/). Note that there are a limited number of symbols in the IPA chart, and more precise descriptions should be given for each language/dialect. AM2693MS (talk) 20:56, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

What I said about [ʌː] in emphatic and slow speech is also often true when reading a text or, for example, poetry. Also there is a reason I used the "ː" sign after "ʌ" but not "ɒ". In emphatic speech or when reading a text, there may well be some distinction between the length of conventional "long" and "short" vowels, but not much in normal speech. This is especially true about poetry, where in fact the rhythm of the Persian "metres" depends greatly on vowel length, which in turn determines the length of syllables. AM2693MS (talk) 21:26, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Which sounds in loanwords only?
Are the sounds represented by the letters ع غ ق present in loanwords (from Arabic, Turkish, etc.) only? Or are there any native Persian words that include these sounds? 207.172.134.7 (talk) 23:31, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Only the غ is inherited (plus from later borrowings). ع comes from Arabic loanwords, while ق is from Arabic and Turkic. See p. 427 of Windfuhr, G. & Perry, J. R (2009). "Persian and Tajik". In G. Windfuhr (ed.), The Iranian Languages. Routledge, pp. 416–544. –Austronesier (talk) 17:27, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Tajik vowel reduction
I think it should be mentioned that in Tajik persian, the vowels /i/ /u/ and /a/ can be reduced to a schwa sound [ə] in unstressed syllables. 92.184.124.74 (talk) 06:38, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

26 consonants??
Someone else put in the intro that Persian has 26 consonants, but the consonant chart in the article lists less than that. Can someone confirm that number with a chart before I change it? Sameerhameedy (talk) 22:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

 * Good idea. The number of consonants was changed from 23 to 26 in this edit, and there were 24 in the chart at that time. and  were split into two phonemes in the table since then, which might be wrong. But regardless the number should agree with the table. — Eru·tuon 23:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Persian phonology


text:
User talk:Calous

Flying Spaghetti Monster
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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Calous


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User talk:Havarde

Welcome
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title: User talk:Havarde


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User talk:Zaera~enwiki

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Crossmyloof

Crossmyloof (, Crois Mo Liubha, Crossmaluif) is an area on the south side of Glasgow situated between the districts of Pollokshields, Strathbungo and Shawlands in Scotland.

Etymology
The name is possibly derived from Gaelic Crois Mo Liubha, Saint (Ma)lieu's Cross.

According to local belief, the name is reputed to be derived from its location on the route taken by Mary, Queen of Scots to the site of the Battle of Langside. A fortune-teller may have offered to tell the queen her fate if she would "cross her loof (palm) with silver".

History
The original village of Crossmyloof was situated in the north-western corner of Cathcart parish and was formed around the junction of what are now Pollokshaws Road and Langside Avenue (the road to Cathcart). Crossmyloof was a small hamlet which suddenly grew in prominence when Neale Thomson opened a large bakery there in 1847. Some remnants of this industrial past still endure. A bakery building behind the tenement known as Camphill Gate on Pollokshaws Road still stands, and there is still a road named Baker Street, where once stood the Alexander "Greek" Thomson-designed workers' cottages.

The main street in Crossmyloof was Cathcart Place, which is now part of Pollokshaws Road between the Langside Avenue/Minard Road junction and Shawlands Cross at the junction with Kilmarnock Road and Moss-side Road. A pub has occupied the Langside Avenue corner from the early 19th century: the Corona Bar, built there in 1912, carries a claim to have been established in 1817.

Crossmyloof was little more than the main street until the late Victorian era, when Minard Road was opened up and the area around Waverley Gardens was built. For twenty years the tenements in Norham Street and Frankfort Street looked out on open countryside, dotted with ancient cottages, separating them from the Waverley Park area of Shawlands until the Waverley Scheme was constructed by the Glasgow Corporation on the land opened up when Moss-side Road was formed to build Shawlands Academy.

In 1818 Crossmyloof was described as the most populous village in Cathcart parish. Although till recently "remarkable chiefly for being a resort of vagrants", the writer was happy to report that the village had now become more respectable from an increase in the number of its inhabitants, who now amounted to around 500. The remarks were a little premature, because in November 1820 two members of a band of armed ruffians who robbed a house in Crossmyloof were hanged in front of the Jail in the Saltmarket. The attack took place at the home of Dr Robert Watt, the author of the four volume Bibliotheca Britannica, who had died, allegedly of overwork, the previous year. His terrified widow had a pistol held at her head and her gold rings wrenched off her fingers. She is reported as having hastily left Crossmyloof for the safety of a home in Hutchesontown. When the Rev James Smith wrote his account of Cathcart parish in 1840, he used the name Westfield for the village and gave the number of families as 124 and the total population as 587 persons. At this period the villagers were mostly cotton handloom weavers. The only remaining woollen weaver was William AIgie, assisted by his seven children, three of whom wove woollen cloth, and four of whom worked in cotton. Two elderly women, Mary Sinclair, a muslin flowerer, and Margaret Wotherspoon, a muslin tambourer, were probably the last of the skilled embroideresses in the village. There were also a few shopkeepers, a blacksmith, several brassfounders and tinsmiths and William Ferguson, a lithographic engraver.

By 1851 the population had risen sharply to 939 persons. The rise was accounted for by the establishment of the Crossmyloof Bakery in 1847 by Neale Thomson of Camphill. The following year James Muirhead moved his Cart Forge from its original site in the Skin Mill Yard at Pollokshaws to larger premises at Crossmyloof, where he produced axles for railway wagons. The Cart Forge was situated between Baker Street, where Thomson's workforce was housed, and the Pollokshaws Road.

Although most of the villagers lived along the Pollokshaws Road there was another small community in the area between Titwood Road and Moss-side Road. This area was known as Langside Valley and contained a few villas and cottages and several orchards and nurseries. This was where Glaswegians came in the Summer to enjoy fresh air and healthy surroundings. An advertisement in the Glasgow Courier of 25 February 1802 offers two "neat" lodgings at the village of Westfield for renting as summer quarters for "genteel families" from the city, who would find the houses well adapted for their use with the convenience of good water and a "neat" plot of ground. The villa owners included James Smellie, a retired cooper who occupied the house called Langside Valley, and William Jaffrey, an accountant and notary public and owner of Campvale House. Springhill House was the residence of Henry Murphy, a pawnbroker and hat manufacturer in the Bridgegate. The house later became Springhill Academy with William Cairns and William Christie as joint headmasters. Archibald McAuslan was the local surgeon and physician, and the community included a group of customs officers with the titles of outdoor officer, running officer, clerk, weigher and locker.

When Hugh MacDonald passed through Crossmyloof on one of his Rambles in 1851, he found that the weavers of Crossmyloof and Strathbungo, like their neighbours on the hill above at Langside, were "celebrated growers of tulips, pansies, dahlias and other floricultural favourites" and met regularly at their florist clubs to examine choice flowers and discuss the best means of rearing them to perfection. Of these "bloom worshippers", MacDonald writes: "There are some sharp-sighted people who are said to see further into a millstone than their neighbours. For the truth of the saying we shall not venture to vouch; but most assuredly, for seeing into the mysteries of a tulip or a dahlia, we shall back a Crossmyloof or Strabungo weaver against the united amateurs of Scotland."

In his report on the parish, the minister also explained that a "large and excellent school" under the patronage of Neale Thomson of Camphill, served the inhabitants of Crossmyloof and district, although it stood just across the boundary within Eastwood parish. The parish boundary was formed here by the Waterland stream, and its course can be traced between the ruinous remains of two old walls behind the school building on the north side of Skirving Street, now used as shops. Mr Smith describes how a number of years before, when there was no teacher for two years, the inhabitants, mostly weavers, formed themselves into an educational society to be managed by twelve directors under the presidency of the minister, and some of the "more intelligent" of the villagers undertook the task of teachers: a room was hired for the purpose, and a school opened from 8 to 10 o'clock at night, in which the teachers, two by two, in monthly turn, gave gratuitous instruction to whatever children were committed to their charge. The duty of the directors was principally to visit the school, and to wait upon careless parents to urge upon them the propriety of securing to their children the advantages which it offered. In 1877 the Cathcart School Board built Crossmyloof Public School in Stevenson (now Deanston) Drive. This school building has since been converted into flats.

The first church to be erected in Crossmyloof was Langside Road Church (later Langside Avenue). This was built in 1859 for a United Presbyterian congregation which had been formed two years previously. The site at the corner of Baker Street and Langside Avenue was gifted by Neale Thomson. A new church was built on the same site in 1896. The congregation united with that of Shawlands Old in 1963 and the Langside Avenue buildings became St Helen's Catholic Church.

The Langside Halls stand nearby, on the edge of Queen's Park. This building was originally the Bank of Glasgow, designed by John Gibson, when it stood in Queen Street in the centre of the city. In 1902-03 the building was relocated to its present site and converted to serve as public halls.

Pollokshaws Road and Minard Road provided the shopping area for Crossmyloof, Shawlands and Langside – mainly in small shop units until the construction of the area's first supermarket by the Co-operative during the 1960s.

Facilities
Crossmyloof is served by a railway station on the Glasgow South Western Line, offering regular services to Glasgow Central. For many years, the most visible evidence of the area's name was the signage for Crossmyloof Ice Rink adjacent to the railway line, but that was replaced by a supermarket during the 1980s, which remains open today run by Morrisons. It was the first indoor ice rink in Scotland.

As well as the Langside Halls, the ice rink, the churches and the pubs on Pollokshaws Road, the area's main social amenity was the Waverley Cinema from 1922 until the early 1970s when the decline in film-going led to its conversion first into a bingo hall and then to TUSK nightclub and the Waverley Tearooms.

title: Crossmyloof


text:
Talk:Lars Frederiksen

Date of birth conflict
There is a conflict in the reported date of birth between this article and what is reported on IMDb. An AOL user, User:152.163.100.5, originally stated that his birthdate was August 30, 1971, but several red flags were raised after reviewing that user's edit history and warnings on their talk page. Unless another credible source can be provided which states otherwise, I am using May 23, 1969 as his date of birth and have immediately cited a link to IMDb profile right after. Hall Monitor 19:41, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Other notes...
Lars has produced quite a few Oi/Street Punk band's albums including: Swingin' Utters - Streets of San Francisco, Patriot - We the People, Pressure Point - Cross to Bear and Life's Blood as well as The Forgotten - Veni Vidi Vici. He is also the host of the XM satellite radio weekly show called RANCID RADIO, along with Gordy Carbone. clash77 - August 13, 2006

Is He Also DMS I know he has ties to the crew and has it tattooed on him, but i have never heard him openly say he is DMS Like he Openly claims U.S. Thugs and skunx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.254.202 (talk) 21:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced trivia
This is all unsourced trivia removed from the article

Guitars and amplification

 * Frederiksen has an Alpine White Epiphone Les Paul Custom that a group of friends purchased for him for his 22nd birthday. It has been embellished with several stickers, including a Danish flag, The US Bombs, and The Nerve Agents band logos. He's also played other Epiphone Les Pauls, one Goldtop (can be seen several times during the '90s), one Black (seen in the Ruby Soho music video) and one Sunburst (which might be the broken guitar on the cover of the Roots Radicals single and is also seen in the Nihilism music video).
 * The Alpine White Les Paul Custom is his only recording guitar, as stated in the Rancid Webisodes on YouTube (although it seems that it's not exactly the same as the one he received at his 22nd birthday).
 * When he first joined Rancid, and also before he joined Rancid, he used at least two Les Paul Jr. guitars: One red (with the U.K. Subs and other early bands) and one black (with Rancid, in 1993).
 * Other guitars: sunburst Fender Telecaster, Ampeg Dan Armstrong plexiglas guitar ("Who Would've Thought" music video), Epiphone Les Paul with leopard-skin finish ("Skins, Punx And Drunx" music video), black Gretsch Chet Atkins hollow body ("Skins, Punx And Drunx" music video), sunburst Hagström ("Salvation" music video. It's NOT one of Tim Armstrong's Hagströms, since it has a neck pickup that is never seen in any of Tim's guitars, plus none of Tim's Hagströms is right-handed, which would eventually be strung as a lefty), Gretsch White Penguin (NAMM show 2010) and several acoustic guitars.
 * Frederiksen uses these other guitars live, mostly SGs because he says they're "lighter" (maybe just half as heavy as the Les Paul)
 * He has two 1964 Gibson SG Specials in Heritage Cherry. One has a U.S. Roughnecks sticker behind the bridge section and "Bastards" stenciled over the bridge section in white; the other is plain.
 * Frederiksen has also got a 1965 Gibson SG Special in Polaris White, which is adorned with a Charlie Manson sticker, directly under a large CMLL sticker.
 * He has a red Gibson SG Classic in heritage cherry
 * Frederiksen has a white Epiphone G-400 with a Millwall F.C. Logo
 * He has a blue Epiphone G-400 with a Millwall F.C. Logo also (as seen in "Last One To Die" video)
 * Frederiksen has a black Epiphone G-400.
 * He plays these guitars through a Marshall JCM 900 100 watt amplifier head, and a Marshall 1960A 4x12 Celestion-speaker-packed cabinet.
 * Frederiksen's Marshall head and cabinet amps have the M cut partially and the HALL removed so that they spell LARS.
 * He uses no effects pedals or processors of any kind but only the amp's two stock channels, clean and crunch.

Guest appearances
The following is a list of songs that Frederiksen has appeared on where he was not a member of the band.
 * "53rd & 3rd" by The Ramones on their live album We're Outta Here!
 * "Gotta Go" off Agnostic Front's Something's Gotta Give
 * "Roots Radicals" performed by Union 13, a Rancid cover (performed in Spanish) appearing on the first Give 'Em the Boot compilation
 * "Power Of Moonlite" and "Towards Destiny" on Tiger Army's Tiger Army II: Power of Moonlite (vocals)
 * Steel guitar on Tiger Army's "Power of Moonlite"
 * "Vengeance Ft Ben Herron" by Dropkick Murphys
 * "We Trusted You" by Transplants
 * "Apes On Parade" by Mad Sin
 * "We Are All That We Have" off The Unseen's State of Discontent
 * The Unseen's rendition of the Rolling Stones' "Paint It Black"
 * "Here to Stay" by Pressure Point
 * "Roots Rock N Roll" by Roger Miret and the Disasters
 * "Choice Through Struggle" by Static Thought
 * "Misty Days" off Buju Banton's Unchained Spirit
 * "Can't Break Me" by Redemption 87.
 * "A Story at Three" off AFI's The Art of Drowning
 * "The Spicy McHaggis Jig" by Dropkick Murphys
 * "Skin Head on the MBTA" by Dropkick Murphys

Feel free to work any information into the article text as long as it can be attributed to a reliable source. --damiens.rf 20:10, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Lars Frederiksen


text:
Talk:Dharma Protector

yes move it!

move it and note, that most of the dharmapalas noticed in this article are in relation to only one school of tibetan buddhism (Gelug).

title: Talk:Dharma Protector


text:
FS Air Service

FS Air Service is an American airline based in Anchorage, Alaska, USA. It was established in 1986 by Floyd Saltz, and operates regional passenger and cargo services, as well as cargo charters. In 1996, FS Air acquired a LearJet 35, which became the cornerstone of its medevac business. At its height, FS operated 2 Lears, 3 Metroliners, 2 Merlins, a Casa, and 2 Navajos. This fleet and its staff of well-qualified pilots and mechanics allowed FS to fulfill its mission statement: "Anything, Anytime, Anywhere!"

FS holds the distinction of being the inaugural FAR Part 135 Aviation Operator in Alaska to be under the ownership and operation of a woman, Sandi Saltz. This transition followed a tragic incident involving Sandi's husband, Floyd, who experienced a controlled descent into terrain upon arrival at St. Paul Island, AK. Later that year, Robert Cannon assumed the role of vice president and played a significant role in rebuilding the company into a successful airline. Sandi and Bob shared a commitment to promoting diversity and collaboratively worked to honor Floyd's legacy. Additionally, both Sandi and Robert were recognized for employing Alaska's first female Chief Pilot, demonstrating their leadership in this regard.

In January 2005, the FS Air Service fleet consisted of one CASA C-212-200 Aviocar.

The financial situation of the business is unclear. During a major scheduled operation on Robert, the owner and son opted to consolidate. Robert was released from the hospital during his recovery, and new management decisions resulted in less effective business planning, leading to the loss of the company's medivac contracts. Ultimately, F.S. Air Service reportedly filed for bankruptcy and closed shortly thereafter.

title: FS Air Service


text:
User:BlazeHedgehog

About Me
Who I am is of no importance to any of you and if you think it is, well, then you're creepy.

Wiki articles I have helped with the most

 * Jazz Jackrabbit 3
 * Sonic the Hedgehog (2006 game)
 * Trespasser (game)
 * Earthworm Jim 3D
 * Super Mario: Blue Twilight DX
 * Astal
 * I also keep a pretty watchful eye on the entire Sonic Series.

Achievements

 * My Wiki Contributions
 * Super Mario: Blue Twilight DX (Producer, Designer, Everything)
 * Sonic Robo Blast 2 (One of the many texture and sprite artists)
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 * Halloweenies (Producer, Designer, Everything)
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 * Sonic: The Fated Hour (Unreleased, Producer, Designer, Everything)
 * Sonic Adventure: SRB2 (Unreleased, Producer, Designer, Everything)
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Links

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 * TK webpage

title: User:BlazeHedgehog


text:
Talk:ExamDiff

← For the record, I'm confused by User:Tony Sidaway's decision to keep this article, given that the votes were "delete" (me), "delete" (Soltak), "delete" (Linnwood), "leaning toward delete but abstain" (JesseW), and "keep" (Alex Nisnevich, the vendor of the ExamDiff application). How soon can this commercial advertisement be re-nominated for deletion? --Quuxplusone 01:33, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * It was borderline. Three deletes and a keep, but the author did a good rewrite during the vote.  On borderline votes (70-79%) I consider the merits.  The argument that it's an advertisement didn't convince me; it's no more an advertisement than Microsoft Word, Visual Studio, GIMP or Photoshop.  The fact that the author gave a good account of himself did influence me.  Since there were so few votes here, please submit it for deletion again immediately with my blessing if you think I got it wrong.  More votes either way would have helped. --Tony Sidaway Talk  02:03, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * First of all, I did a complete rewrite of the article following the VfD notice. Secondly, remember that Wikipedia Is Not a Democracy - majority opinion does not necessarily rule in Wikipedia. -- Alex Nisnevich (talk) 02:35, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:ExamDiff


text:
Talk:Operation Blessing International

Anyone here about Pat using operation Blessing planes for his diamond mining buisiness
 * Here's a reference for that in case anyone wants to do research. --Craig Stuntz 13:54, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

POV Violation?
It seems to me there is a NPOV violation here. This charity has an "excellent" rating in every place I've seen, yet this is not mentioned at all. Their money spent on advertising and administrative expenses is very low, as most of the advertising is paid for by the (less efficient) 700 club charity. This ensures that almost all money given to Operation Blessing goes to relief efforts. There has been no evidence that I can find about Pat Robertson funneling Operation Blessing money to him or his ventures. The linked article above says that Pat Robertson reimbursed Operation Blessing for the use of its planes. The diamond mining scandle definately belongs here, but the way it is presented violates NPOV in my opinion. The article seems to imply as is that even though the organization is supposed to bring relief to ravaged regions of the world, it is however used for Pat Robertson's personal ventures. Zzxcnet 03:07, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

 * We love our leader. Our unquestionable, omniscient, all caring, diamond mining leader.  Oops, perhaps we should mention that he is the guy who wants Chávez killed because he’s un-American.

 * OB- not just a charity; a religion. (unsigned comment by 216.87.87.233)

 * Regardless of everyone's personal opinion, the article should be a NPOV description of the charity. It should not be implied that Operation Blessing is a scandle-ridden puppet of Pat Robertson.. it's not.  Zzxcnet 18:16, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

 * OK, Zzxcnet, please Be Bold and please help us fix it, with concrete edits and/or examples of changes you want to make here. It's considered bad form to just add NPOV to an article and then to just ask others to fix it for you (yes, I found this out the hard way - but I was nicely educated...). Thanks. --NightMonkey 09:09, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * I've been working on reworking the article, but I'm trying to make it as NPOV as possible before I add it. I don't want to just sway the POV.  I added a "Scandal" section to the article to replace the last paragraph that I've tried to make as NPOV as possible.  I've taken out some information that I didn 't see as necessary or where I couldn't find source material to back it up.  If someone can find the source material and wants to add some of it back, go ahead.  Zzxcnet 13:18, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Also, please note that I used the wording "some have criticized." Since no charges were ever filed, and since I couldn't find a consensus opinion in this regard, I don't thing "has been criticized" would be as appropriate. Zzxcnet 20:26, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Perhaps, then, when you do find references, using some phrasing that is more specific, such as, "Noteable criticism from  has been leveled at , stating that..." or something in a similar vein. Just a suggestion to keep the Weasel Words accusations down (though, sometimes they are hard to avoid when covering contreversial topics). Sounds like you're doing some good work, Zzxcnet! --NightMonkey 21:58, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

 * I added some references, improved (hopefully) the section splitting, and made some npov changes to the Katrina section. Zzxcnet, what more do you think will be necessary to get rid of the npov warning? --Craig Stuntz 14:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmm... Zzxcnet - are you AWOL? I'm inclined to consider removing the NPOV notice in 24 hours from this posting if you can't actively help us remove the NPOV notice and contribute to the article. An alternative would be to only tag the section under dispute, rather than the whole article. With news stories and coverage like this gathering steam, I suspect that the neutrality issue you've seen becomes less and less apparent. We must cover these sorts of things in the article, but we need someone with more information on OB to flesh out the articles we've changed the article to hopefully reflect NPOV - what more needs to happen? --NightMonkey 01:11, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * OK, I removed the NPOV notice, and added a stub notice. This is more appropriate. Anyone can add more information to this page if they feel it needs more information and you have good sources and it helps the flow of the article. Thanks. --NightMonkey 04:33, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Unsourced, uninteligible material
The following section, besides being loaded with POV phrasing, is entirely unsourced. I have brought it here, where anyone who wishes may source it, rephrase it, and reinsert it once it's been made encyclopedic. I've taken the liberty of wikifying what's here. I don't understand what claim is even being made about FEMA's website - what on Earth does that have to do with Hugo Chávez? And what does "those who know Robertson's record" mean? Yikes. And when was "on Sunday"?

 * Other Questionable Practices

 * Robertson uses that Christian network for some markedly unchristian purposes.

 * A few years back, he repeatedly defended Charles Taylor, the former brutal dictator of Liberia who is under indictment by a UN tribunal for war crimes.

 * As with Mobutu in the Congo, Robertson had a personal stake in the matter: He had millions invested in a Liberian gold mine, thanks to Taylor, according to press reports.

 * On August 22, 2005, Robertson called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. Those who know Robertson's record raised such an uproar that on Sunday FEMA suddenly rearranged its entire Web site for hurricane donations.

 * Gone was Operation Blessing's name and choice location. Replacing it was an alphabetical list of nearly 50 national relief organizations.

-GTBacchus(talk) 05:33, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

C&P
I've deleted the programs section as it is a direct cut and paste from the official website. Pennywisepeter 15:07, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Was it important to delete Operation Blessing's programs?
The descriptions were factual. Don't you think it's a service to show the public what types of assistance is being provided in order for them to make an informed decision? Numerous humanitarian/cause-related organizations represented on Wikipedia have full program outlines, countries represented, logos, etc. I'm requesting that the programs be resubmitted.

-OBIKristin November 21,2006

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Operation Blessing International. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070928062158/http://www.nptimes.com/07Aug/070801Special%20Report.pdf to http://nptimes.com/07Aug/070801Special%20Report.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130904062149/http://tiff.net:80/filmsandschedules/festival/2013/missioncongo to http://tiff.net/filmsandschedules/festival/2013/missioncongo

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 05:29, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Operation Blessing International


text:
Inalienable

Inalienable or inalienability may refer to:

 * Inalienable right, a type of legal right in jurisprudence
 * Restraint on alienation
 * Inalienable possession, a class of nouns in linguistics
 * InAlienable, a 2008 science fiction film

title: Inalienable


text: Template:Medal of Honor series

title: Template:Medal of Honor series


text:
Cilgerran Castle

Cilgerran Castle (Castell Cilgerran) is a 13th-century ruined castle located in Cilgerran, Pembrokeshire, Wales, near Cardigan. The first castle on the site was thought to have been built by Gerald of Windsor around 1110–1115, and it changed hands several times over the following century between English and Welsh forces. In the hands of William Marshal, 2nd Earl of Pembroke, the construction of the stone castle began after 1223.

After passing through successive families, it was left to ruin and eventually abandoned by 1400. The castle backs onto a cliff face, with the remaining ruins dating from the 13th century. It was most heavily fortified where it faces inland, and includes a pair of drum towers, rather than a central keep, which remain standing. It passed into the hands of the National Trust in 1938. It is open to the public and entry is free. Opening times vary.

Description
The castle sits on a rocky promontory above the River Teifi, with one side directly onto a cliff face. An earth and timber castle is believed to have existed prior to the current building, but was destroyed by Welsh forces. The existing masonry dates from around 13th century. The walls facing the cliff top were the least heavily fortified, with the defences concentrated on those that faced inland. These comprised two lines of defence, with an outer bailey and two drum towers rather than a central keep as typically seen in other castles of this period. The gatehouse is located in the south east of the building, and only partly remains. A ditch around the outside of the castle was cut from the rock face, which is thought to have once been spanned by a pivoting bridge. Cilgerran Castle is the most northerly of all castles in Pembrokeshire. It is twinned with Cardigan Castle, located on the opposite bank of the river 3 mi downstream.

The castle is largely ruinous, though the two substantial towers remain. From the castle there are walks down to the River Teifi. The castle is a National Trust property, in the guardianship of Cadw: Welsh Historic Monuments Executive Agency. It is open to the public under their auspices, and in 2015 it was the site of a re-enactment of the Battle of Agincourt to mark the 600th anniversary.

History
The initial Cilgerran Castle was built by Gerald of Windsor around 1110–1115, but was little more than a wooden palisade. This was replaced by a stone outer wall at some point prior to the attack by Rhys ap Gruffydd in 1165. Rhys had taken Cardigan Castle a matter of weeks before, and upon the capture of Cilgerran Castle, he destroyed it entirely. He began a reconstruction effort, using stone and lime mortar. In 1204, it was taken back for the English by William Marshal, 1st Earl of Pembroke, who drove out Rhy's son, Maelgwn ap Rhys. Marshal set about making repairs, but these proved ineffective as it was taken once more in 1215 Llywelyn the Great after a single day's battle.

It was recaptured by William Marshal, 2nd Earl of Pembroke, in 1223. He began the rebuilding of the castle into its present form, which was later completed by the de Cantilupe family. The size of the stones used in the parts of the castle remaining from this period indicate that it was built at great haste. Cilgerran was not taken by Welsh forces after this period, although in 1258 when English forces were defeated nearby, the castle had to push back the forces of the Princes of Deheubarth. Following the death of Anselm Marshal, 6th Earl of Pembroke, it passed via a co-heiress to the de Cantilupe family.

It passed again in 1272 after end of that line, to the Hastings family. But Cilgerran Castle was allowed to go to ruin by 1387, and was thought to be deserted by 1400. But the property continued to be passed down through the Earls of Pembroke into the time of Jasper Tudor, Duke of Bedford. In 1509, Gruffudd Vychan was named Steward of the Lordship of Cilgerran and Constable of Cilgerran Castle.

It has been the subject of several paintings, including Kilgarran Castle on the Twyvey; Hazy Sunrise, previous to a Sultry Day, Cilgerran Castle on the Teifi, Looking Upstream, and View in Wales: Mountain Scene with Village and Castle – Evening, each by J. M. W. Turner which are all in the national collection at the Tate Museum.

The 19th century saw continued decline of the castle, the dry ditch bailey being converted into the village pound and the curtain wall of the bailey falling due to slate quarrying in the area in 1863. In 1938, it was presented to the National Trust.

title: Cilgerran Castle


text: User talk:70.17.177.157

title: User talk:70.17.177.157


text: User talk:203.200.24.10

title: User talk:203.200.24.10


text:
Talk:Double-density compact disc

Variations of DD Compact Disc
I got two questions: Does this format use regular recordable CDs? Is this format in any related to the Sega Dreamcast GD-ROM?--Kevin586 19:49, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * No. Double Density needs DD-CD-discs. No. GD-ROM is different from DD-CD. See . Henri Tapani Heinonen 16:38, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Lack of source claim
I don't understand the claim that this article lacks source. As per the article, the technology is present in two different engineering standard specifications. The claims can be verified by reading the said specifications. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daviburg (talk • contribs) 19:08, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Double-density compact disc


text:
Winning percentage

In sports, a winning percentage or Copeland score is the fraction of games or matches a team or individual has won. The statistic is commonly used in standings or rankings to compare teams or individuals. It is defined as wins divided by the total number of matches played (i.e. wins plus draws plus losses). A draw counts as a $1/2$ win.

 * $$\text{winning percentage} = {\text{wins}+0.5\cdot\text{ties}\over\text{total games}}$$

Discussion
For example, if a team's season record is 30 wins and 20 losses, the winning percentage would be 60% or 0.600:

 * $$60\% = {30\over50}\cdot100\%$$

If a team's season record is 30–15–5 (i.e. it has won thirty games, lost fifteen and tied five times), and if the five tie games are counted as 2$1/2$ wins, then the team has an adjusted record of 32$1/2$ wins, resulting in a 65% or .650 winning percentage for the fifty total games from:

 * $$65\% = {32.5\over50}\cdot100\%$$

In North America, winning percentages are expressed as decimal values to three decimal places. It is the same value, but without the last step of multiplying by 100% in the formula above. Furthermore, they are usually read aloud as if they were whole numbers (e.g. 1.000, "a thousand" or 0.500, "five hundred"). In this case, the name "winning percentage" is actually a misnomer, since it is not expressed as a percentage. A winning percentage such as .536 ("five thirty-six") expressed as a percentage would be 53.6%.

Winning percentage is one way to compare the record of two teams; however, another standard method most frequently used in baseball and professional basketball standings is games behind. In baseball, a pitcher is assessed wins and losses as an individual statistic and thus has his own winning percentage, based on his win–loss record.

However, in association football, a manager's abilities may be measured by win percentage. In this case, the formula is wins divided by total number of matches; draws are not considered as "half-wins", and the quotient is always in percentage form.

In the National Football League, division winners and playoff qualifiers are technically determined by winning percentage and not by number of wins. Ties are currently counted as half a win and half a loss, however, prior to 1972 tied games were disregarded for the purposes of this calculation — a 10–2–2 record (10÷12 ≈ 0.833) would then have outranked an 11–3 record (11÷14 ≈ 0.785). Tie games, a fairly common occurrence in football before the introduction of overtime, were thus somewhat more valuable to teams with a winning record, as compared with current rules.

Some leagues and competitions may instead use a points percentage system, changing the nature of this statistic. In this type of method, used in many group tournament ranking systems, the competitors are awarded a certain number of points per win, fewer points per tie, and none for a loss. The teams are then ranked by the total number of these accumulated points. One such method is the "three points for a win", where three points are awarded for winning a game, one point is awarded for a draw, and no points are awarded for a loss. The National Hockey League (which uses an overtime and shootouts to break all ties) awards two points for a win in regulation or overtime/shootout, one point for an overtime loss, and none for a regulation loss.

Major League Baseball
This table lists the best and worst winning percentages in the history of the National League (NL) and American League (AL) of Major League Baseball (MLB).

Note: some team records sum to less than the season schedule (154 or 162 games) due to rain outs.

National Hockey League
In the National Hockey League, teams are awarded two points for a win, and one point for either a tie (a discontinued statistic) or an overtime loss. It can be calculated as follows:

 * $$\mathrm{Points}\ \mathrm{percentage} = \frac{\mathrm{Points}}{\mathrm{Total \ possible \ points}}

= \frac{ \mathrm{Overtime \ Losses + (2 \times Wins)}}{\mathrm{ 2 \times Games \ Played }}$$

title: Winning percentage


text:
Troy Perry

Troy Deroy Perry Jr. (born July 27, 1940) is an American cleric and the founder of the Metropolitan Community Church, with a ministry with the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender communities, in Los Angeles on October 6, 1968.

Early life
Troy Perry is the eldest of five brothers born to "the biggest bootleggers in Northern Florida", Troy Perry and Edith Allen Perry. As early as he can remember, Perry felt called to preach, labeling himself as a "religious fanatic". He was influenced by his aunts, who held street services in his hometown and who hosted Perry giving sermons from their home. Perry's father died fleeing the police when his son was eleven years old. After his mother remarried and moved the family to Daytona Beach, Perry was abused by his stepfather and ran away from home, not returning until after she divorced him.

Perry dropped out of high school, and became a licensed Baptist preacher by the age of 15 years. After Perry expressed his attraction towards males, his pastor suggested he marry a woman to resolve these feelings. He married this preacher's daughter, Pearl Pinion, in 1959, later remembering, "I was always interested in pastor's daughters because I thought they would make good preacher's wives. I didn't love her when I married her, but I did love her after our first year." They had two sons and relocated to Illinois where Perry attended Midwest Bible College and Moody Bible Institute where he studied for two years. Perry was the preacher at a small Church of God and sometimes had sexual relationships with other men but considered it youthful exploration. When he was 19 years old, church administrators told him one of the men had told them what they had done and he was forced to leave the church. They moved to Southern California, where he pastored a Pentecostal Church of God of Prophecy. After Perry's wife found his copy of The Homosexual in America by Donald Webster Cory, their marriage dissolved. They divorced after five years of marriage. Perry was directed to pray about being led astray by his homosexual feelings and later was told by his bishop to renounce himself in the pulpit and resign. Perry worked in a Sears department store and was drafted for the army in 1965, during which time he served two years in Germany.

Founding the Metropolitan Community Church
In 1968, after a suicide attempt, and witnessing a close friend being arrested at The Patch Bar, Perry felt called to return to his faith and to offer a place for gay people to worship God. Perry put an advertisement in The Advocate announcing a worship service designed for gays in Los Angeles. Twelve people turned up on October 6, 1968, for the first service, and "Nine were my friends who came to console me and to laugh, and three came as a result of the ad." After six weeks of services in his living room, the congregation shifted to a women's club, an auditorium, a church, and finally a theater. In 1971, their own building was dedicated with over a thousand members in attendance.

Several MCC buildings have been targeted for arson, including the original Church in Los Angeles. Perry's theology has been described as conservative, but social action was a high priority from the beginning of the establishment of the denomination. Perry performed what Time Magazine described as the first public same-sex unions in the United States as early as 1968 and ordained women as pastors as early as 1972.

Smithsonian Institution archives
A collection of items from Perry and the Metropolitan Community Churches is held by the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History. It was presented to the Smithsonian on the 51st anniversary of the founding of the church. It consists of personal items used by Perry in the founding of the Metropolitan Community Churches, historical Items from members and friends concerning Metropolitan Community Churches as well as Items that detail the work of the church and Perry in their struggle for equal and civil rights.

Other artifacts and records donated to the Museum include:
 * The charter of MCC San Francisco describing the rights of membership;
 * General Conference program books from the 25th, 40th, 50th years that provide information about MCC's development;
 * An inclusive language hymnal from 1990;
 * The original pamphlet “Homosexuality: Not a Sickness, Not a Sin” explained MCC's belief about sexuality and spirituality.
 * An original copy of a 1971 issue of Life magazine with a photo of Perry marrying a couple at MCC Los Angeles;
 * An original copy of the Service of Faith and Freedom to celebrate the 25th anniversary of Stonewall at Alice Tully Hall in New York City.
 * A small cross made of stained glass from one of the destroyed windows of the Los Angeles church in an arson fire in 1973.

The bulk of MCC's historical records are preserved at the Center for LGBTQ & Gender Studies in Religion (CLGS) in Berkeley, California, and the ONE Institute in Los Angeles.

Activism
Perry held a seat on the Los Angeles County Commission on Human Relations in 1973. Perry worked in political arenas to oppose Anita Bryant in the Save the Children campaign in 1977, that sought to overturn an anti-discrimination ordinance passed by the city of Miami. Unsuccessful in Miami, he also worked to oppose the Briggs Initiative in California that was written to ensure gay and lesbian teachers would be fired or prohibited from working in California public schools. Beginning on September 4, 1977, Perry held a 16-day fast on the steps of the Federal Building in Los Angeles to raise funds to fight the initiative. The Briggs Initiative was defeated in 1978. Perry also planned the National March on Washington for Lesbian and Gay Rights in 1979 with Robin Tyler.

On June 28, 1970, Perry, with two friends, Morris Kight and Bob Humphries, founded Christopher Street West to hold an annual Pride Parade. It is the oldest gay pride parade in the world.

In 1978, Perry was honored by the American Civil Liberties Union Lesbian and Gay Rights Chapter with its Humanitarian Award. He holds honorary doctorates from Episcopal Divinity School in Boston and Samaritan College (Los Angeles) for his work in civil rights, and was lauded by the Gay Press Association with its Humanitarian Award. Perry has been invited to the White House on five occasions: On Valentine's Day 2004 he spoke to a crowd of gay newlyweds at the Marriage Equality Rally at the California State Capitol. He retired as Moderator of the MCC in 2005, and Nancy Wilson succeeded him at an installation service on 29 October 2005.
 * in 1977 by President Jimmy Carter to discuss gay and lesbian rights;
 * in 1995 by President Bill Clinton as a participant in the first White House Conference on HIV and AIDS;
 * in 1997 invited by President Clinton as a participant in the White House Conference on Hate Crimes;
 * in 1997 again as a guest of President Clinton as an "honoree" at a White House breakfast with President honoring 100 national spiritual leaders in the USA.
 * in 2009, along with his partner Phillip, by President Barack Obama on the occasion of the 40th anniversary of Stonewall.

In March 2017, Perry became the first American citizen honored with Cuba's CENESEX award. Mariela Castro Espín, daughter of Cuban President Raul Castro, and a member of the country's National Assembly, and Director of CENESEX, presented the award. He was given the award for his long history of working for human rights and the rights of the LGBTQ community worldwide.

Perry was named to the Stonewall 50 Wall of Honor made up of 18 community leaders including Wilson Cruz, Mandy Carter, Marsha Botzer and Stuart Milk, the gay nephew of slain San Francisco supervisor Harvey Milk.

Writings and media
Perry has written an autobiography, The Lord is My Shepherd and He Knows I'm Gay, first published in 1972 by Nash Publishing. He has written a sequel to this book, titled Don't Be Afraid Anymore, published in 1990 by St. Martin's Press and Profiles in Gay and Lesbian Courage also published by St. Martin's in 1992. He is a contributing editor for the book Is Gay Good? and the subject of another book, Our God Too. In 2003, he completed 10 Spiritual Truths For Gays and Lesbians* (*and everyone else!).

Perry's television appearances include Early Appearance in Print Publications include:
 * Virginia Graham Show, Sept 7, 1970
 * Mike Douglas Show, Week of July 9, 1973
 * Phil Donohue Show
 * Tomorrow with Tom Snyder, June 4, 1974
 * Playboy Magazine, Sept 1973, Vol. 2, No. 9

His film appearances include: Audio Appearances include: Print Articles on Perry include:
 * Sign of Protest, Documentary, Pat Rocco Director, 1970
 * God, Gays and the Gospel, Documentary, 1984
 * Upstairs Inferno, Documentary, Robert L. Camina Director, 2015
 * StoryCorps Rev. Troy Perry, Producers Liyna Anwar and Eve Claxton
 * QueerCore Podcast "The Joy of Rev. Troy Perry's Salvation, Podcast Prodcuer, August Bernadicou, May 2020
 * The Pastor Behind the Gay Marriage Ruling, Christian Century, John Dart, June 17, 2008
 * Pride in the Pews, Tablet, Maggie Phillips, June 23, 2021

Personal life
Perry's mother became the first heterosexual member of the Metropolitan Community Church and supported her son until she died in 1993. He was reunited with his younger son, Michael, and performed the marriage uniting him and his daughter-in-law, but remains estranged from his elder son.

Perry has maintained a home in Los Angeles with Phillip Ray De Blieck, whom he married under Canadian law at the Metropolitan Community Church of Toronto. They sued the State of California upon their return home after their Toronto wedding for recognition of their marriage and won. The state appealed and the ruling was overturned by the State Supreme Court after five years in their favor.

Tributes
In 2011, actor/playwright Jade Esteban Estrada portrayed Perry in the solo musical comedy "ICONS: The Lesbian and Gay History of the World, Vol. 5" which includes the song "I Will Follow You" sung by the character of Perry with music and lyrics by Estrada.

On October 6, 2018, a tribute to Perry on the 50th anniversary of his founding Metropolitan Community Church was held at the Los Angeles Episcopal Cathedral. Guest speakers and dignitaries included California State Sen. Kevin de Leon and attorney Gloria Allred. Rodney Scott, President Emeritus of Christopher Street West / LAPRIDE, presented the Troy Perry Awards.

On June 11, 2021, the Los Angeles Dodgers baseball organization honored Perry, presenting him with the Dodgers Community Hero Lifetime Achievement Award at the eighth annual LGBTQ+ Night at Dodger Stadium.

title: Troy Perry


text:
User talk:Marcpschaefer

Welcome
Hello, , and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type   on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
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Sorry for such a late welcome. --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 19:51, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Switchblade(aircraft)
Are you referring to Boeing Bird of Prey??? If so, a redirect should be made. --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 20:02, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Ignore the preceding comment. It was meant for another user. My humblest apologies. --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 20:16, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

San Diego Wild Animal Park
Marc, the Wild Animal Park is in Escondido, over 30 miles away from downtown. I'm doing a compromise edit and leaving the WAP in the attractions list while adding the qualifier: "in nearby Escondido, CA". Hope this is agreeable to you. Fernando Rizo T/C 20:20, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Photo of Jerry Sanders with no license
You apparently uploaded a photo of Jerry Sanders at Image:GRS Mira Mesa Parade.jpg. If this photo is yours, please replace the GFDL-presumed tag with GFDL at the description page. Dananderson 17:34, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Capt.cash10407271907.san diego mayor cash104.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Capt.cash10407271907.san diego mayor cash104.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use GFDL-self to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Shyam ( T / C ) 17:23, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Us tke.gif
Thanks for uploading Image:Us tke.gif. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use GFDL-self to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Dethomas 07:42, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Marcpschaefer