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Talk:Jacob Epstein

Note from a viewer
He served briefly in World War I with the *Jewish Legion of the Royal Fusiliers. For an online link (for reference only) search the Catalogue on the Website The Churchill Papers at http://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/archives/churchill_papers/ -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.53.29.94 (talk • contribs). 13:45, 22 November i think that 3pstein is ok bu not dat much and heya..,x lol2005

Dickie Lewis
The Epstein statue in Liverpool is usually referred to locally as Dickie Lewis, not Swinging Dick -- as a quick Google will rapidly affirm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.171.18 (talk • contribs) 09:16, 31 August 2006
 * Well its not an easy Google search to do as you have to exclude all the sites that just syndicate Wikipedia content. However I'm inclined to agree.
 * 'Swinging Dick' - really just one or two - e.g. and.
 * 'Dickie Lewis' - perhaps about 30 that are relevant, including this one which describes a pub named after the nickname and also shows the statue in question.
 * Mind you there also seems to be some disagreement about the official title for the statue. Some sites says its 'Liverpool Resurgent', another gives 'The Spirit of Youth'. Thanks for the local input. -- Solipsist 08:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, and for anyone interested, here's a better picture of the statue. -- Solipsist 08:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Year daughter Kitty married Wynne Godley
I've found two references to the year that daughter Kitty married Wynne Godley so changed to 1955

http://thepeerage.com/p33609.htm#i336087

Also Godley's own website has 1955 as the date.

http://www.wynnegodley.com/

Rrose Selavy (talk) 01:26, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion
suggestion: images of his artwork rather than text descriptions would perhaps be more useful to the peoples inquiries! This applies to all of our presentation of visual materials without visuals, only text, it is not awake 21st century media making! This article on an important artist needs improvement but is is not unconstructive! it is an early version which would benefit from enlightened expansion but not to be disalloweed please.! 173.13.106.242

Jewish identification
According to the article, Epstein rejected his parent's orthodoxy and was not religiously active during his life. Normally, we require evidence of self-identification before adding Jewish categories to an article. Of course, I realize that some people of Jewish descent still self-identify as Jewish despite rejecting Judaism as a religion. Do we have evidence that Epstein did so? Yworo (talk) 03:03, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Fact - Epstein was a sculptor. Fact - Epstein was born in New York. Fact - Epstein moved to England at age 22. Who's we? Speak for yourself because you do not represent this encyclopedia only your own opinion...Modernist (talk) 03:14, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Please try to learn our policies and also, please try to be more civil. Yworo (talk) 03:18, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Lets develop consensus - shall we...Modernist (talk) 03:20, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * The policies were developed by consensus. If you wish to change the policies, please discuss on the talk page of the policy itself. We do not override these policies on an article by article basis. Yworo (talk) 03:23, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * So, here's the rules for categorization by ethnicity, gender, religon and sexuality. Yworo (talk) 03:25, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I have zero interest in your interpretation, I am concerned only with the facts as presented in this article about Jacob Epstein...Modernist (talk) 03:26, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not my interpretation, it's explicitly spelled out "Categories should not be based on religion unless the belief has a specific relation to the topic." Yworo (talk) 03:27, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Currently the lede factually reads - Sir Jacob Epstein (10 November 1880 – 19 August 1959) was a sculptor who was born in the United States and who worked chiefly in the UK, and that is how it should be presented...Modernist (talk) 03:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * No it shouldn't. The standard lede sentence for biographies is clearly described at WP:MOSBIO:

 * The opening paragraph should have:
 * Name(s) and title(s), if any (see, for instance, also Naming conventions (royalty and nobility));
 * Dates of birth and death, if known (see Manual of Style (dates and numbers));
 * Context (location, nationality, or ethnicity);
 * In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable.
 * Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities and/or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability.
 * What the person did;
 * Why the person is significant.

 * The opening sentence is supposed to go:
 * Name (dates) was a nationality occupation ...

 * Details that do not fit this format go in subsequent sentences. It's done this way throughout Wikipedia, for example Isaac Asimov, Al Jolson, Peter Lorre, Cary Grant. If the person changed their nationality before becoming notable, we use the new nationality. The latter two started their career and started to become noteworthy in their country of birth, but achieved real notability in their adopted country and so have hyphenated nationality. Please see the discussions at the talk page of the policy. I've been involved in refinements to this policy and know what I am talking about. I took the time to read the history of the policy before becoming involved. Your proposal is outside the standards for the lede sentence.

 * Yworo (talk) 03:39, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * We are not talking about policy here but rather guidelines which are open to interpretation and therefore consensus-building.  freshacconci  talk talk  03:41, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * In nearly all articles, consensus has conformed to policy in the lede sentence, explicating any details in the second paragraph of the lede, though sometimes in the second sentence. My version was a studied compromise that has been used on many contentious articles, at least where no one was trying to own the article. Yworo (talk) 03:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * By the way - I am not talking about categories or religion - all I am saying here is - he was a sculptor who was born in the United States and who worked chiefly in the UK, as opposed to an American born or an American-British sculptor etc. I am saying - He was a sculptor - He was born in - He worked there...Modernist (talk) 03:43, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Specifically excluded by WP:MOSBIO: "Similarly, previous nationalities and/or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability." Yworo (talk) 03:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

This is pretty much done out of respect for the subject's choices. The subject chose to change their nationality, yet you are trying to appropriate their nationality by denying their willed change of citizenship. It's just the same as whether they self-identify with a religion. We respect the subject's choice of self-identification in nationality, ethnicity, gender, sexuality and religion. Yworo (talk) 03:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * He was schooled at the Art Students League of New York an artist long before he went to England...Modernist (talk) 03:52, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Show me that he achieved widespread notability while still in the US prior to 1902. Sources please. Yworo (talk) 03:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * How is his American birth not relevant? He lived in the US until he was 22. That's significant and far different from, say, Bob Hope who was British-born but moved to the US when he was 2 years old. For a good comparison, look at Arthur Lismer, British-born but significant as a Canadian artist. The lede states that and I think it's wholly appropriate.  freshacconci  talk talk  03:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Marcel Duchamp became an American citizen in 1955. We say he was an artist who was born in France and who became an American citizen...Modernist (talk) 03:56, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * WP:MOSBIO specifically ties the nationality to the notability. Are you saying that he was widely notable as a sculptor before 1902? These rules apply primarily to the first sentence. Of course his American birth is significant and should be in the second sentence, but he self-identified as British. Yworo (talk) 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS isn't a valid argument. This is how I find other articles to fix. Yworo (talk) 03:58, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * His training at a significant institution is an important part of his notability. His notability is as an artist. He became an artist in New York. There is no magic date where he suddenly becomes notable. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS doesn't apply here. You're the one who brought up precedents: "Isaac Asimov, Al Jolson, Peter Lorre, Cary Grant".  freshacconci  talk talk  04:01, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Cary Grant is a good example. For a long time American editors monopolized the article and the article described him as American only, because he changed his citizenship. A British editor provided reference that showed that he had been notable in the British portion of his career, that is, that there were reliable sources from the period which took note of him, and I helped that editor convince the other editors to describe him as British-American. Provide sources from the period here and I'll happily call Epstein American-British. Yworo (talk) 04:05, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * A very quick google search came up with this from page 1 of The Jewish East Side, 1881-1924 by Milton Hindus. In my opinion this establishes both his establishment as an artist in New York and his notability as an artist while still in the United States.  freshacconci  talk talk  04:18, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It says it was a turning point, his first commission, at which point he used the money to leave the states, never to return. Was that commission noted at the time? A whole artistic career, and one commission not even in the field (sculpture) for which he became noted. I don't think so. Yworo (talk) 04:25, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I've added a source confirming he was Jewish. Bus stop (talk) 17:37, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

In his autobiography (referenced elsewhere) Epstein mentions that he does not like being referred to as a "Jewish sculptor." Just "sculptor" was what he wanted. Carptrash (talk) 22:39, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Excellent. I was pretty sure he didn't self-identify as Jewish and that confirms it. Yworo (talk) 22:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * There is a huge difference between identifying yourself as Jewish and identifying yourself as a Jewish sculptor. He was an artist and a Jewish man. I know a lot of women who are artists and they balk at the label woman artist; while at the same time being proud to be women...Modernist (talk) 22:52, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The rule is self-identification. Until his self-identification as Jewish is established, the categories should remain off. Yworo (talk) 23:29, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, I've taken care of it. The "Jews" categories are religious in nature, the subject has self-identify and/or be known to have been observant to be included. There are also "of Jewish descent" categories for when the parents are known to have been Jewish but the subject does not self-identify. I've swapped in the correct categories. Yworo (talk) 23:41, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Nationality
I'm perfectly fine with the original lede which stated he was an American-born British sculptor. American-British would also be fine by me. He was born in the US and was initially trained there and his New York upbringing is significant (see my link above), especially as a Jewish New Yorker. He then became a British citizen so he is clearly British. Like every other hyphenated person, notable or not, being of two nations is significant, particularly when someone matures in one nation and moves to another as an adult.  freshacconci  talk talk  04:25, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes, except WP:MOSBIO explicitly states not to use the phrase xxxx-born in the lead sentence. I was involved in the discussion and know the intent. Place of birth is supposed to be deferred to the second sentence or paragraph when the subject changes their nationality and the bulk of their notability is in their adopted country. Yworo (talk) 04:28, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You are mistaking guidelines for policy and neglecting common sense try this WP:VAMOS...Modernist (talk) 04:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you referring to the phrase "nation or city of origin"? That's for works of art, not biographies. If that's not what you're referring to, please be more specific. Yworo (talk) 04:40, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Those are the Visual Arts Project MoS guidelines for articles about artists. I thought you knew...Modernist (talk) 04:42, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * And yes - nation or city of origin, present location; look if you don't like it change it over there with consensus, currently consensus is against you...Modernist (talk) 04:47, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Read the whole sentence: "The lead section in articles on works of art should give at least the following information, in roughly this order: Name(s)/title(s) of work, artist, date, type of work and materials, subject, nation or city of origin, present location." That particular sentence doesn't apply to biographies. Yworo (talk) 04:49, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Once again - these are guidelines - that section covers both artists and works of art - succinctly - and in flux - not set in stone, rock, or cement. If you want it to be changed then propose your thoughts on the talk page there; for now we see things differently. I see Epstein as having been born in the US and moving to England and you see him as British. I'm really curious how you would describe Francis Bacon (artist) is he Irish or English or Irish born English or just an artist. It's late but check that article out, adios...Modernist (talk) 05:08, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * He's Irish. Of course, he could have applied for an obtained a British passport as well as an Irish one. There is disagreement about how to describe the various natives of the United Kingdom. Most are described as British, but Sean Connery is described as Scottish. It depends on the degree of self-identification with the region of the UK. Yworo (talk) 06:09, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I am going to propose that we go back to where this recent Tempest in a teapot started and suggest that Epstein again be an "American born British sculptor in the lead paragraph.

In searching through my pretty good at-home sculpture library I find that Taft places Epstein in the British section of his book,    as does Parkes.

Chaney sort of dodges the issue, writing, "Jacob Epstein, originally American, French trained, but a giant figure in English modern art"

On the other hand his inclusion in both Mantle Fielding's Dictionary of American Painters, Sculptors & Engravers and Contemporary American Sculpture as well as that he showed in the 1929 National Sculpture Society's Contemporary American Sculpture exhibition argues for his Americanism.

On the other other hand, the catalog from the 3rd Sculpture International (in Philadelphia, PA, May 15 - September 11, 1949) includes Epstein in the Foreign, "English" listing.

In his autobiography Epstein quotes an article from the New York Evening Post, (October 21, 1927) which states, "Jacob Epstein, famous American sculptor . . . . . . ... ".

So, how about we just go back to "American born, British sculptor?" Carptrash (talk) 19:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Agreed...Modernist (talk) 19:40, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * American-born is not needed, as the place of birth is clearly visible above the fold in the infobox. That's one of the reasons WP:MOSBIO discourages the use of xxx-born, a proper bio has an infobox and the place of birth is clearly visible. If the details are also put in the second sentence as I did, it's even more clear and detailed than what you are suggesting, because it tells when he left the US and when he became a British citizen. My proposed version is:

 * Sir Jacob Epstein (10 November 1880 – 19 August 1959) was a British sculptor who pioneered modern sculpture. While born in the United States, he moved to Europe in 1902 and became a British citizen in 1907...

 * That provides much more background of the situation, it's right up front, and is preferable to violating the spirit of WP:MOSBIO. Yworo (talk) 19:43, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Perish the thought that we should violate a Manual of Style. You might notice that I changed the "pioneered modern sculpture" to something like "helped pioneer". That he is not even mentioned in Tradition and Experiment in Modern Sculpture suggests that at best he was one of many. Carptrash (talk) 20:00, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * And since you seem disinclined to respond to my postings of places where Epstein is considered an American you probably will not care that he is listed in Who Was Who in American Art either. Carptrash (talk) 20:10, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Different publications have different rules for nationality. Some always use place of birth, some always use adopted citizenship: we use citizenship at time subject achieved their major notability. So what different publications say isn't particularly worrying to me. What does worry me though is the rejection of a more informative version for a less informative version. I can't believe that an unbiased Wikipedian would choose a wording that's less informative. Yworo (talk) 20:15, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * So far the consensus is 3 to 1 for American born British...Modernist (talk) 20:17, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Consensus is not a vote. Proper consensus gives the most weight to the best argument for the application of policy and guidelines. I've not seen any valid arguments but mine, the rest are either I like it or I don't like it. Yworo (talk) 20:20, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * "I've not seen any valid arguments but mine". Wow. No, consensus is not a vote but unilateral declarations are not acceptable either. Again, WP:MOS is not policy and I don't recall you being appointed Style Police. We are having a discussion and you've summarily dismissed three opinions because they differ from your own. There is a great deal of opposition to infoboxes, especially over at the VisArts project. The gist of problem with infoboxes is that the info is reduced to mere trivia and although I personally don't mind the use of infoboxes, over-reliance on them is a big problem. The sentence you propose is essentially leaving out a crucial aspect of what makes Epstein notable: his New York, American upbringing and training as an artist. You blithely tell us people can glance over to the infobox but the point is Epstein was American-born and this is a crucial aspect of his bio. His notability is established in New York, as I pointed out above, and yes two important commissions early in his career and his training at an important institution are notable. I don't see how "American-born British sculptor" or some variation is not an acceptable compromise unless you particularly enjoy arguing the minutia of guidelines which I need to point out again are not carved in stone, are flexible and can be altered on a case-by-case basis. To reduce what we have argued as I like it or I don't like it is arrogant in the extreme.  freshacconci  talk talk  20:39, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I object to the American-born per the guideline. If you wish to propose expanding the second sentence to include that he was born and educated in NYC before moving to England, that'd be great, since that's your objection. How about:

 * Sir Jacob Epstein (10 November 1880 – 19 August 1959) was a British sculptor who helpd to pioneer modern sculpture. While born and educated in New York City, he moved to Europe in 1902 and became a British citizen in 1907. ...

 * You see, your version with American-born doesn't detail that either. A second sentence is on most article consistently found to be the best way to get the nuances about change of citizenship into the article. Audrey Hepburn is a good example (although she didn't change her citizenship, her birth and upbringing simply took place outside her nation). Yworo (talk) 20:46, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * The reader coming to the version you suggest first learns that Epstein is British. The reader then finds out that he was born and educated in NYC. That's interesting. Obviously his British parents were living abroad in NYC for some reason. Then the reader learns that this British person became a British citizen in 1907, without actually ever being told he was ever anything other than British. The reader then goes back to the beginning of the article to work this out, compute dates and make sure he hasn't misunderstood something. He then has to make an educated guess that Epstein was actually not British at all to begin with, but was American and had American parents. I don't think this is the easiest way to introduce the reader to the subject.  Ty  02:05, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I actually find the Audrey Hepburn example illustrative of why the suggested WP:MOS style for ledes is actually quite confusing. Ignoring the fact that I thought she was American (with a Mid-Atlantic, East Coast boarding school accent), we learn that she's British. Except of course, that she's Belgian-born (and ethnically Belgian or perhaps Flemish) and lived part of her childhood in the Netherlands and died in Switzerland. That's pretty damn convoluted and I need to read well into the article to find out the basics of her rather interesting life. But of course, the bulk of her career (her main notability) is in American movies. I didn;t get too far into that article to find out how long she actually lived in the US, but I think my point is obvious. Her citizenship is British but the truth is actually far more complex and the lede doesn't give a clear idea of any of this. I'm proposing (and will post as such at the VisArts talk page) that perhaps the visual art MOS needs to be expanded to address international complexity (see my Arthur Lismer example). I think we need to figure out ways to address this in an agreeable manner because I don't think the main MOS deals with it adequately.  freshacconci  talk talk  03:13, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * She was born to parents who were British citizens. Her citizenship was British throughout her entire life. Yworo (talk) 16:43, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that clarification and discussion should be resumed at WP:VAMOS also in the light of these discussions at Talk:Marcel Duchamp, ...Modernist (talk) 04:17, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If there is to be discussion, it should be at WP:MOSBIO, which is the overarching guideline. Yworo (talk) 16:45, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I really don't see how his place of birth is so important: I've always known Epstein as a British sculptor (that's the WP category he's in too). He doesn't have any connection to the American art scene that I can tell. All his works were created in Britain, and are displayed in Britain; he took British citizenship, served with the British army, was granted knighthood by the Queen, and is buried in London. How important is his birthplace that it needs to go in the first sentence-?? The way it's written right now makes it sound like he was an American who just "worked chiefly" in the UK (i.e. as an American abroad), and that's just not the case. LillianVee (talk) 17:55, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * And you are an expert in 20th century sculpure? You say he has no connection to the American art scene and yet the article says the opposite - Although Epstein's work was highly original for its time, its influence on the younger generation of sculptors such as Henry Moore and Barbara Hepworth may have been limited, as much of Epstein's work was not on public display but in a few private collections, mainly in the United States....Modernist (talk) 20:47, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Well: no, I'm not an "expert". I didn't know you had to be one to contribute to Wikipedia. I thought since you wanted to "build a consensus" that you might actually want to hear from other people, but I obviously you don't. I have to point out, though, the line you quote doesn't say a thing about Epstein's impact on the American art scene, only his impact on collectors. And it says absolutely nothing about his nationality, which anyone can plainly see is BRITISH. But you know what? I don't care. I didn't make my first discussion comment ever just to get my face slapped. I'm just a Fine Arts major who thought WP seemed like a fun and noble project, but seeing what you adminstrators are like here, it's no place for me. I'm sorry I'm just a "new user" with "uninformed opinions" (yes, I read your snotty comments about me on your talkpages), so I won't bother you "experts" anymore. Your arrogant bickering is too much for me. So thank you for souring me on Wikipedia forever: I won't be coming back. And thank you also for ruining my entire day with your rudeness. Enjoy your triumph. LillianVee (talk) 22:07, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
 * A Wikipedia expert would have noticed that the sentence quoted had no citation. He would have then done a search to verify it and would have found sources that suggest that that bald assertion simply isn't true. Also, don't blame administrators for Modernist's actions, he doesn't seem to be one. Nor does he seem to understand some of the nuances of Wikipedia policy that would be necessary for him to become one.... Yworo (talk) 00:50, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * First of all - I pointed out an obvious contradiction in LillianVee's comments vis a vis the sentence that was in the article at the time that she made her comment. I certainly did not prevent her from voicing her opinion; In my opinion I guess her arrogant bickering comment refers to Yworo's ongoing commentary; as to that sentence having a citation - that was irrelevant to my remark in the conversation above, although to remain in the article a reference would be useful. As to Epstein being represented in American art collections and having an impact albeit a minor one on the American art scene - I do subscribe to that idea. He was certainly like other expatriate artistic American counterparts in Europe at that time well known to the artworld intelligentsia if not to the general public. Because what was happening at that time was American artists, writers, poets were going abroad - mostly to France, Italy, England and Spain to learn firsthand about the art scene in Europe. Although most returned to America - some like Epstein and Theodore Earl Butler fell in love, started families and stayed in Europe. Stanton MacDonald-Wright, Morgan Russell, Ezra Pound, Ernest Hemingway, Marsden Hartley, Thomas Hart Benton and dozens more. As to my becoming an administrator - this thread is irrelevant to that issue one way or another...Modernist (talk) 04:16, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Try to remember not to bite the newcomers. Yworo (talk) 04:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * And somebody always just gotta WP:TLW but somebody aught to WP:JDI already...Modernist (talk) 04:38, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

WP:SELFREF much? Yworo (talk) 04:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you might read that as well...Modernist (talk) 04:45, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd suggest using T.S. Eliot as an example. Like Epstein, he was born in the United States but later became a British citizen. The Eliot article doesn't use the nationality field in the infobox - this article shouldn't either. One solution is to remove the infobox altogether since they're not required. That would solve the problem. The wording in the lead should be "American-born". Truthkeeper88 (talk) 11:39, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clear-headed intervention into this nonsense. I agree with your suggestions.  freshacconci  talk talk  13:32, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I've done a quick search on Credo Reference. Of the first ten of so entries - all encyclopedias or reference books - none identifies him exclusively British. They all identify him as American-born. The Wikipedia entry do the same. American-born, took British citizenship, and delete the British from the infobox, if not the entire infobox. As with all modernists, the influences field on the infobox is rife for subjective entries, so I'd strongly suggest removing the infobox if consensus to so can be achieved. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and welcome to the fray, Truthkeeper88. It didn't take Yworo long to attack you for daring to disagree with him. But then he is the expert on "policy" and only his interpretation of policy is valid. I'm sure he'll dispute that "use the library, chum" is an attack, but it all does add up to some interesting behaviour, policy-wise. But again, welcome, your points are appreciated and valid.  freshacconci  talk talk  15:46, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Your removal of citations was uncalled for. All the works cited identify him as British and are verifiable. Use the library, chum. Sources do not need to be verifiable online. Yworo (talk) 14:47, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You've misinterpreted my intentions. In my view four references in the infobox are more than are necessary. I removed three and left one. I apologize if you felt the edit summary was wrong; I could have written a much longer edit summary, and in retrospect should have. I do have this page watched, so no need to chastise me on my talkpage. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:12, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I am in agreement - lets remove the infobox...Modernist (talk) 14:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's not, all the sources indicate that his citizenship was British. If they also say "American-born" they are not talking about citizenship. The birthplace is also in the infobox, can't be missed, so all the relevant data from all sources in included in the infobox. Let's not engage in pointless nationalistic appropriation exercises. The man changed his citizenship and his choice deserves to be respected. Yworo (talk) 14:50, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

He held US citizenship until he was in his twenties, simply describing him as British does seem potentially misleading. On a slightly differnt note, the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography states that he was not naturalised until 1910, viz http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/33025 (subscription/UK library card required), and a bit of further ferreting suggests that the process was not actually complete until 1911 http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/28462/pages/874 ODNB also indicates that he initally lived in Regents Park, and then Fulham, not at Loughton. Th ODNB further places his marriage to Dunlop to November 1906, not 1907, which is consistent with these entries in the indices of the General Register Office, http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=MDlC2UCA%2B2ro%2FR%2FCYtE1OA&scan=1 http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?cite=t175NzGYJjXP4xpPoEXeDQ&scan=1 David Underdown (talk) 15:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Clearly, it was a good idea getting UK Wikipedians involved in this. You seem to have much better resources for getting the details of the article right. Thanks for the information! Will you be updating the article with these changes and sources? Yworo (talk) 15:57, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I wasn't sure what the precise provennance of the existing info was, so thought it better to bring it up on talk first. I see the details were changed, I've tweaked the formatting of the refs a bit.  David Underdown (talk) 09:42, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Epstein's Jewishness
In regards to Epstein’s “Jewishness,” in his autobiography he describes growing up in “the Jewish quarter” of New York City, about being exposed to “Newspapers in Yiddish, Yiddish theaters, literery societies,” about being taken to the “Chief Rabbi” of NYC, and in one telling passage explains, “I saw a great deal of Jewish orthodox life. . .. I imagine that the feeling I have for expressing a human point of view, giving human rather than abstract implications to my work, comes from these early formative years.” (p. 12). Let's see if we can get those categories back. Carptrash (talk) 16:29, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm gathering together some material now that should support that, from his autobiography. Bus stop (talk) 18:06, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The correct categories have been added, he is of Jewish descent. That's not in dispute. These details don't verify him as practicing the religion. You don't seem to get that there are two types of Jewish categories: one set includes known self-identifying adherents of the religion (American Jews, British Jews, etc.) The other is for non-adherents (American people of Jewish descent, British people of Jewish descent, etc). So far, you are only verifying the latter, not the former. Yworo (talk) 18:09, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yworo—the sources (that I've seen) are not even presenting his parents as "practicing the religion." Bus stop (talk) 18:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The descent categories are ethnic, the Jews categories are religious. So even if his parents didn't practice, the descent categories are appropriate. Take a look at the supercategories and category trees and you will see what I mean. Yworo (talk) 18:18, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Was Epstein Bar Mitzvahed? What does his autobiography say? Were his children Bar Mitzvahed?...Modernist (talk) 18:44, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no need to establish that anyone was bar mitzvahed. In Christianity one might be expected to demonstrate their acceptance of Christ as Messiah. No such counterpart exists in Judaism. Religions share similarities, but obviously religions depart from one another in various ways. The basic definition of a Jew is a human being who was either born to a Jewish mother or a human being who converted to Judaism. There are other definitions but this one is said to be the "normative" one. I think it is one of the most basic definitions. But none of the other definitions either, as far as I'm aware, require "practicing" in order to be of the religion. Yworo is applying original research to the definition of Jew. Yworo seems to be applying the mechanisms applicable to defining a Christian to defining a Jew. Bus stop (talk) 19:20, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

On p. 180 (of my edition) of his autobiography Epstein writes:
 * "The average unfavorable criticism of my sculpture or drawings I have never put down to anti-Semitism and I have never joined in all-Jewish exhibitions of art. Artists are of all races and climes, and to band together in racial groups is rediculus.  I am most often annoyed rather than flattered to be told that I am the best of formost Jewish artist."

Notice that he does not say, nor can I imagine him thinking to say, “ Because I am not a Jewish artist.”  Carptrash (talk) 19:51, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You're not distinguishing between Jewish ethnicity and the Jewish religion. Many sources don't. The criteria for adding a religion category to an article is self-identification as an adherent of the religion, i.e. being not only of Jewish descent but actively practicing Judaism as a religion. You've made no comment about inclusion in the ethnic categories of Jewish descent. Where is the spirit of compromise? I compromised by finding and adding the correct categories given the sources we have. And you haven't even acknowledged that or acknowledged you understand the difference. All the Jewish religion categories have notices at the top saying the some of the entries may be miscategorized. This difference is precisely what those notices are talking about. We don't put people in a religious category unless they self-identify with the belief system rather than just ethnically. Just as we don't call someone agnostic or atheist unless they profess agnosticism or atheism, or call them gay unless they say they are, etc. There are two completely different sets of categories for Judaic people and religious practitioners of Judaism and they were created not to be redundant but to address precisely this difference. Yworo (talk) 20:14, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Reliable sources identify him as a Jew, so that's all that matters. I've added to the article four sources that explicitly identify him as Jewish; there are many more. One need not practice Judaism to be a Jew. Also, the "descent" categories are for people who have Jewish ancestors, but are not Jewish themselves. Someone who is Jewish is by definition "of Jewish descent", so the category is redundant in that case. Jayjg (talk) 03:21, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

context for quote in article
In the article we find:

 * "I never joined in all-Jewish exhibitions of art. ... I am most often annoyed rather than flattered to be told I am the best or foremost Jewish artist. Surely to be an artist is enough."

It's out of context. It's not representing his (Epstein's) main point. He's not voicing the platitude that his Jewishness is unimportant in contrast to his art which is of transcendent importance. He is writing in 1940, or at least his autobiography is published in 1940, I think, in reference to what he refers to as an antisemitic review (in a publication called the "New Age") of an exhibition of his work. The review itself dates from 1924. I think the spirit of what he is saying has to be seen as a defense against negative charges being lodged against Jews at that time. He speaks not only of himself. He references other Jews, working in other fields of endeavors, some not art-related.

The book is: Let There Be Sculpture, Jacob Epstein, 1940.

First a quick quote from earlier in the same book, this to show that he thought of his Jewishness as being entwined with his efforts as an artist:

 * "The earnestness and simplicity of the old Polish Jewish manner of living has much beauty in it, and an artist could make it the theme of very fine works. This life is fast disappearing on contact with American habits, and it is a pity that there is no Rembrandt of to-day to draw his inspiration from it before it is too late."

Now here is the longer quote I was referring to at the top. A long part of the below excerpt from his autobiography is his own reproduction of the 1924 review of his art exhibition. My below excerpt is uninterrupted except for parts I couldn't read in Google books because it was unclear. The quote that is in our article is only at the bottom of this long excerpt:

 * "In the 'New Age' appeared the following anti-Semitic article. If one refers to the date, 1924, it will be seen that hatred of, and propaganda against the Jews in art is of no recent growth. I, for the life of me, cannot see why my bronzes in this exhibition were peculiarly Jewish, any more than the works of Rembrandt, and he is certainly not condemned for his Jewish subject matter, except by the Nazis, of course. I remember that Modigliani was intensely proud of his Jewish origin, and would contend with absurd vehemence that Rembrandt was Jewish. He gave as his reason that Rembrandt must have been Jewish on account of his profound humanity. This article in the 'New Age,' where even the Child's Studies of Peggy Jean "are touched with horror," Aryanism has run amok. This review, so venomous, so vile, was signed by a pseudonym—Rusticus. Obviously a forerunner of Herr Streicher. I print this piece of Aryanism for what it is worth. I will add that since the growth of Nazism and Fascism, both Italian and English, I have been favoured by articles in Der Sturmer, and similar periodicals in Germany and Austria; not to speak of attacks in our own Fascist Press, and the painting of the Hudson Memorial in Hyde Park with Swatstikas. When invited to show at the Venice Biennial by the Italian Government, receiving a personal invitation from Count Volpi, my works on arrival at the British Pavilion were held up, as Mussolini, in imitation of Hitler, had brought in his Aryan decrees; but the twenty-two works were, nevertheless, eventually shown, owing to the strong representations made by the British Committee."

 * "Here is the 'New Age' article of February 14th, 1924:"

 * "'There is no race in the world more enigmatic, more fatal, and therefore more interesting than the Jews.'—Dr. Oscar Levy."

 * "On leaving the exhibition we remarked to the attendant that a world peopled by such inhabitants as the artist depicted would be a nightmare. "But different people have different ideas on art," was the reply. "For instance, you might not like Chinese art, but still it is art."

 * "He apparently recognized that Epstein was not of the Aryan race, for this significant fact burns itself on the consciousness of every European who enters that room. Surrounded by Epstein's sculptures, the Aryan is in face of alien genius."

 * "Puzzled, vaguely uneasy, you wander round closely inspecting each head in turn. Wonderfully moulded, they are the work of a genius. They grip you. They will not let you go. But a sickening disgust gradually conquers you. The intensity of repulsion aroused by them cannot be explained merely on the ground of their Semitic cast—their high cheek bones, their half-shut eyes, their prominent noses and their full open lips. There is something more. They are instinct with evil."

 * "On closer analysis, it is found that there is a wide gulf between the men and women represented by Epstein. The women appear to be of a lower race. They are types without individuality. [The next several sentences are partially illegible in Google books.] So detestable has Epstein found the Aryan type that we turn from his insipid frigid creatures, "An English girl" and "Selina", with distaste. At least his Semitic creations are full of vitality and power."

 * "Mr. Orage contended that the Jew forms a link between the black and white races. This theory would explain how Epstein could so sympathetically depict a young Senegalese girl. Although she possesses the usual heavy features of the negress, the sculptor has endowed her with a gentle smile which makes us feel the human predominate over the animal."

 * "The mens heads are highly individualised. But they represent the power of intellect divorced from character. Here is old Pinager with knotted hands, terribly alive in spite of his amusing attitude. Dr. Adolph S. Oko, with intellectual head and cold, sneering, irresistible smile; the Duke of Marlborough cased in aristocratic pride; the Napoleonic study of a man; and the marvelously vivid head of R. B. Cunninghame Graham. Into these sculptures Epstein has poured his genius. But they are incarnations of evil."

 * "We recall the poise and balance of the Greek gods and feel that we are surrounded in their stead by Circean beasts. Where is man's power to erect himself above himself? How loathsome is the species when deprived of nobility and dignity! Even the charming studies of "Peggy Jean," the baby laughing, grave, asleep, are touched with horror when we contemplate the adults by whom she is surrounded and whom she will grow up to resemble."

 * "It is significant that Jacob Epstein should choose to display his undoubted genius in the portrayal of such savage types. His models, according to the photographs published in the daily Press, are ordinary good-looking people. But he has read into them certain bestial characteristics. Why has he done so?"

 * "We believe that in the artistic genius the soul of the race speaks. The individual is here the instrument impelled by a power far greater than himself. And we believe that in his gallery of sculptures, Jacob Epstein has expressed the subconscious racial Hebraic life—utterly and entirely alien to the Aryan life which reached its artistic apotheosis in Greek sculpture, and Christian painting and poetry."

 * "In the Grecian marbles, the human spirit sought expression for the ideal. Before even their mutilated remains were uplifted and chastened—we glimpse Olympia beyond and above our petty selves and share the larger life of common aspiration. But before Epstein's works we are humiliated and cast down. It seems scarcely worth while to belong to such a bestialized or evil humanity. He narrows us down to tribal conceptions—to animal women serving the lust of their patriarchal owners, cunning and cruel. The centuries are obliterated. European civilization has vanished. Balance, self-poise, control, proportion—the gifts of ages—have been swept away. He transports us anew to the twilight of early Jewry, where power is the motive force of man, and woman is but an instrument of sensuality."

 * "This astonishing tirade might have been written in the Germany of to-day. I remember when in New York one evening, at a party to which a friend had taken me, I met the genial Pascin, very depressed, and recall with what pleasure he greeted me. At that time in New York he was attacked by anti-Semitic art critics, and as he had had great popularity there, this weighed upon him. Shortly after that he committed suicide in Paris. The average unfavourable criticism of my sculpture or drawings I had never put down to anti-Semitism, and I have never joined all-Jewish exhibitions of art. Artists are of all races and climes, and to band together in racial groups is ridiculous. I am most often annoyed rather than flattered to be told that I am the best or foremost Jewish artist. Surely to be an artist is enough. Who thinks of whether Menuhin or Huberman are Jewish when you hear them playing the violin? Or whether Einstein is Semitic in science? Einstein said to me when I worked from him that it was only the Nazis who had made him conscious of his Jewish origin. This pernicious racialism in art should be forever banished."

I don't think the quote as presently placed in the article conveys an accurate representation of Epstein's thoughts. I've changed it to read as follows:

 * "Epstein being a Jew,[8][9][10][11] negative reviews of his work sometimes took on an antisemitic flavor.[12]"

I think the above wording is more in keeping with what the larger context implies. Bus stop (talk) 05:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

We have been here before
and here we are again. I just cut this out.
 * "Epstein was Jewish for all his life,   "

Why? you might ask. Well for one thing, if one is born Jewish, how is one not Jewish all one's life? And the references given do not really say he was Jewish all his life. rather they show that various writers at various different times called him Jewish. So I lopped that off and plopped it here. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 03:31, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

 * I removed the IP insertion, so the sentence is back to what it was before, which is an accurate representation of the sources. I'm not sure why you had to remove the entire reference, rather than just the recent IP insertion. In any event, the discussion of antisemitism makes little sense unless one knows that Epstein was Jewish. Jayjg (talk) 05:15, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

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Hudson Memorial
When this was unveiled in Hyde Park in 1927, the Prime Minister was visibly shocked. It was vandalized off and on till the war broke out. If we can get some sources, could be worth a mention. 2600:1010:B067:AAC8:B117:8DB8:7FFE:A29 (talk) 21:27, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Stanley Baldwin was "visibly shocked"? Yes, this source also says: ".. questions were asked in Parliament, the Royal Academy campaigned for its removal and it was vandalised with green paint" (that last detail already mentioned, I think). Perhaps we could consult Hansard to see what those questions were? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:43, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Trent's Own Case
The 'Wetherill' character in this E. C. Bentley detective novel is supposed to be based on Epstein. This can be added when a reference is found. 2600:1010:B067:AAC8:B117:8DB8:7FFE:A29 (talk) 21:30, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Antiques Roadshow
A late watercolour by Epstein, of dahlias was featured on BBC One's Antiques Roadshow on 15 October 2017:. It was valued by art expert Dendy Easton at £4,000 - £6,000. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:35, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Jacob Epstein


text:
User talk:Bagchivivek

Welcome!

Welcome to Wikipedia, Bagchivivek! My name is Ryan, aka Acetic Acid. I noticed that you were new and haven't received any messages yet. I just wanted to see how you were doing. Wikipedia can be a little intimidating at first, since it uses different formatting than other sites that use HTML and CSS. In the long run, though, you'll find that the WikiSyntax is a lot easier and faster than those other ways. Here are a few links to get you started:

 * How to edit a page
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article

There are a lot of policies and guides to read, but I highly recommend reading over those first. If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. Please be sure to sign your name on Talk Pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, along with a link to your user page. This way, others know when you left a message and how to find you. It's easier than having to type out your name, right? :)

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikipedia. We can use all the help we can get! Have a nice day. Sincerely,  Acetic Acid  ( talk  ) 06:46, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:Raj.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Raj.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

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File source problem with File:Mihir1.jpg
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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Bagchivivek


text:
C++ Technical Report 1

C++ Technical Report 1 (TR1) is the common name for ISO/IEC TR 19768, C++ Library Extensions, which is a document that proposed additions to the C++ standard library for the C++03 language standard. The additions include regular expressions, smart pointers, hash tables, and random number generators. TR1 was not a standard itself, but rather a draft document. However, most of its proposals became part of the later official standard, C++11. Before C++11 was standardized, vendors used this document as a guide to create extensions. The report's goal was "to build more widespread existing practice for an expanded C++ standard library".

The report was first circulated in draft form in 2005 as Draft Technical Report on C++ Library Extensions, then published in 2007 as an ISO/IEC standard as ISO/IEC TR 19768:2007.

Overview
Compilers did not need to include the TR1 components in order to conform to the C++ standard, because TR1 proposals were not part of the standard itself, only a set of possible additions that were still to be ratified. However, most of TR1 was available from Boost, and several compiler/library distributors implemented all or some of the components. TR1 is not the complete list of additions to the library that appeared in C++11. For example, C++11 includes a thread support library that is not available in TR1.

The new components were defined in the  namespace to distinguish them from the then-current standard library.

Components
TR1 includes the following components:

General utilities
Reference wrapper – enables passing references, rather than copies, into algorithms or function objects. The feature was based on Boost.Ref. A wrapper reference is obtained from an instance of the template class. Wrapper references are similar to normal references (‘&’) of the C++ language. To obtain a wrapper reference from any object the template class  is used (for a constant reference   is used).

Wrapper references are useful above all for template functions, when argument deduction would not deduce a reference (e.g. when forwarding arguments):

Smart pointers – adds several classes that simplify object lifetime management in complex cases. Three main classes are added:
 * – a reference-counted smart pointer
 * – a variant of  that doesn't increase the reference count

The proposal is based on Boost Smart Pointer library.

Function objects
These four modules are added to the  header file:

Polymorphic function wrapper – can store any callable function (function pointers, member function pointers, and function objects) that uses a specified function call signature. The type does not depend on the kind of the callable used. Based on Boost.Function

Function object binders – can bind any parameter parameters to function objects. Function composition is also allowed. This is a generalized version of the standard  and   bind functions. The feature is based on Boost Bind library.

Function return types – determines the type of a call expression.

Member functions – enhancement to the standard   and. Allows pointers to member functions to be treated as function objects. Based on Boost Mem Fn library.

Metaprogramming and type traits
There is now  header file that contains many useful trait meta-templates, such as ,  ,  , etc. It facilitates metaprogramming by enabling queries on and transformation between different types. The proposal is based on Boost Type Traits library.

Random number generation

 * new  header file – ,  ,  , etc.
 * utilities for generating random numbers using any of several Pseudorandom number generators, engines, and probability distributions

Mathematical special functions
Some features of TR1, such as the mathematical special functions and certain C99 additions, are not included in the Visual C++ implementation of TR1. The Mathematical special functions library was not standardized in C++11.
 * additions to the /  header files – ,  , etc.

These functions will likely be of principal interest to programmers in the engineering and scientific disciplines.

The following table shows all 23 special functions described in TR1. Each function has two additional variants. Appending the suffix ‘f’ or ‘l’ to a function name gives a function that operates on  or   values respectively. For example:

Tuple types

 * new  header file –
 * based on Boost Tuple library
 * vaguely an extension of the standard
 * fixed size collection of elements, which may be of different types

Fixed size array

 * new  header file –
 * taken from Boost Array library
 * as opposed to dynamic array types such as the standard

Hash tables

 * new,   header files
 * they implement the,  ,  , and   classes, analogous to  ,  ,  , and  , respectively
 * unfortunately,  and   cannot be used with the ,  ,  ,  , and   standard library functions, which work for   and
 * new implementation, not derived from an existing library, not fully API compatible with existing libraries
 * like all hash tables, often provide constant time lookup of elements but the worst case can be linear in the size of the container

Regular expressions

 * new  header file – ,  ,  ,  , etc.
 * based on Boost RegEx library
 * pattern matching library

C compatibility
C++ is designed to be compatible with the C programming language, but is not a strict superset of C due to diverging standards. TR1 attempts to reconcile some of these differences through additions to various headers in the C++ library, such as, , , etc. These changes help to bring C++ more in line with the C99 version of the C standard (not all parts of C99 are included in TR1).

Technical Report 2
In 2005, a request for proposals for a TR2 was made with a special interest in Unicode, XML/HTML, Networking and usability for novice programmers.TR2 call for proposals.

Some of the proposals included:
 * Threads
 * The Asio C++ library (networking ).
 * Signals/Slots [sigc Proposal for standardization in C++ Library TR2]
 * Filesystem Library Filesystem Library for TR2 – Based on the Boost Filesystem Library, for query/manipulation of paths, files and directories.
 * Boost Any Library Any Library Proposal for TR2
 * Lexical Conversion Library Conversion Library Proposal for TR2
 * New String Algorithms Proposal for new string algorithms in TR2
 * Toward a More Complete Taxonomy of Algebraic Properties for Numeric Libraries in TR2 ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG21 - Papers 2008
 * Adding heterogeneous comparison lookup to associative containers for TR2

After the call was issued for proposals for TR2, ISO procedures were changed, so there will not be a TR2. Instead, enhancements to C++ will be published in a number of Technical Specifications. Some of the proposals listed above are already included in the C++ standard or in draft versions of the Technical Specifications.

title: C++ Technical Report 1


text:
User talk:BojiDebater

Welcome!

Welcome to Wikipedia, BojiDebater! My name is Ryan, aka Acetic Acid. I noticed that you were new and haven't received any messages yet. I just wanted to see how you were doing. Wikipedia can be a little intimidating at first, since it uses different formatting than other sites that use HTML and CSS. In the long run, though, you'll find that the WikiSyntax is a lot easier and faster than those other ways. Here are a few links to get you started:

 * How to edit a page
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article

There are a lot of policies and guides to read, but I highly recommend reading over those first. If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. Please be sure to sign your name on Talk Pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, along with a link to your user page. This way, others know when you left a message and how to find you. It's easier than having to type out your name, right? :)

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikipedia. We can use all the help we can get! Have a nice day. Sincerely,  Acetic Acid  ( talk  ) 06:46, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Response to your Q on redirects
You left a msg on my talk page regarding Guillermo Rodriguez Lara. To be honest, I don't recall why I structured the redirects as I did. Another user had asked me to re-write & clean the article to address POV issues. As part of the general cleaning process, I probably attempted to straighten out any redirects I could find. Feel free to make the changes as you see appropriate. If you have any technical difficultles, I'll do my best to point you in the right direction. Also... apologies for the tardy reply. Your message must have been lost in the shuffle. Feco 18:04, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:BojiDebater


text:
Template talk:Sydney Pittwater suburbs

Polite request: There are a number of suburbs listed in this template that do not also occur in the list of Sydney suburbs, including the following:
 * Paradise Beach, New South Wales,Paradise Beach
 * Salt Pan Cove, New South Wales,Salt Pan Cove
 * Stokes Point, New South Wales,Stokes Point
 * Taylor's Point, New South Wales,Taylor's Point
 * Tumbledown Dick, New South Wales,Tumbledown Dick
 * Turimetta, New South Wales,Turimetta

Can someone who knows this area better than I do please see if these really are suburbs, and:
 * If they are, please add them to the list of Sydney suburbs.
 * If they aren't, please remove them from this template.

-- All the best, Nickj (t) 06:46, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Sydney Pittwater suburbs


text:
User:Carnildo/MyBJAODN

Binary pulsar, originally posted by 69.196.170.44
Binary pulsars are the process by which dual linear profusions are emitted in synchronized sequence amounting in pulses that result in tubular forces. These pulsars are binary by nature due to their divisive magnitude, which is caused by the energy forcefield creating the pulses. These are typically occur in astrophysical calculations that are terminated by misused energy commonly associated with galactic norms. These norms are subject to vigorous anomalies of natural standards of random and chaotic bursts of matter.

From Orca, originally posted by 81.129.189.19
The orca, commonly known as the minute ant is the smallest known living creature. Not visible to the naked eye, the orca needs one of the most powerful microscopes in the world to even be seen. Living on a diet of lion and occasionally bald eagle, it spends its days much like a sloth. It lives in only the deepest parts of the river Thames it is entirely self reliant and takes no money from its parents. Nor can it be approved for a student loan.

Squirrel melts, originally posted by 132.162.244.141
A common alternative to tuna or patty melts. Simply substitute tuna/meat for boiled squirrel meat. Skin the deceased squirrel and put his bare carcass in a pot of boiling water until thoroughly cooked. The carcass is kind of cute, actually. Once cooked, pick the meat off the bones and shred any large pieces. Mix in mayonaise, grated cheese, celery bits, and your choice of nuts. You know how squirrels like nuts. Put mixture on an english muffin and cover with a slice of cheese. Heat the melts until your desired temperature. Great for weekend snacks at a football game or tailgate party. Squirrel melts- you must try them.

1,2-Dimethyl-chickenwire, originally posted by Cacycle

 * For the full article, see User:Carnildo/1,2-Dimethyl-chickenwire

1,2-Dimethyl-chickenwire, is an odorless, colorless, crystalline organic compound. 1,2-dimethyl-chickenwire is a polycyclic non-aromatic saturated hydrocarbon or alkane. It was developed by the chemistry professor Nick D. Kim at the University of Waikato in New Zealand and was first described together with several of its analogs.

From General Relativity, originally posted by 69.238.217.46
General relativity (GR) or general relativity theory (GRT) General Relativity was the commanding officer of the 1st Light Cavalry troops from the state of Illinois during the American Civil War, hence the well-known relationship between "Light" and "Relativity."

From Longest word in English, originally posted by 213.239.235.202
The word pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, also spelled pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanokoniosis, is defined as "a lung disease caused by the inhalation of very fine silica or quartz dust." At 45 letters, it is certainly the longest word ever to appear in a non-technical dictionary of English (Source: OED). However there are strong indications that the word was coined by puzzler Everett Smith in 1935 as a hypothetical long word that could result from the protraction of medical terms. The actual name of the disease is pneumoconiosis, which is 14 letters long. As a result, opposition has risen to the claim that pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis is the longest word in the English language. Opponents of the claim are known as dispneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosisists while supporters of the claim are popularly known as antidispneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosisists. Some supporters showing ambivalence are scornfully referred to by linguistic extremists of the latter school of thought as pseudoantidispneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosisists. But the ambivalent school, speaking pseudoantidispneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosisistically, faces something of a logical conundrum.

Manufacture
To make a sonic screwdriver, mix 2 oz. vodka with 8 oz. orange juice. Add one small blue hedgehog. Serve over ice.

title: User:Carnildo/MyBJAODN


text:
User talk:JuJube/Old Archives 2006-1

Click here for the 2005 talk page.

Re: Sailor Moon template

 * Frankly, I think the links to Princess Serenity and Prince Endymion are unnecessary, as those articles should really be merged into Usagi Tsukino and Mamoru Chiba, respectively. These are two examples of "one character, two names."  Also, I have never heard #1 referred to or addressed by the surname of "Campbell."  Could you tell me where you got that notion from? -- Denelson83 08:57, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * In the very first episode of the DiC dub of Sailor Moon, Serena's mother is called Mrs. Campbell. Also, I could make an argument for Princess Serenity and Prince Endymion being superpowered alter egos of Usagi and Mamoru, and worth keeping as separate entries because of their past lives. Danny Lilithborne 08:59, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I never heard the name "Campbell" at all while watching the first DiC episode of SM. Denelson83 09:00, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Check the guest credits page on IMDB. It's there. Danny Lilithborne 09:01, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, obviously someone has erred in preparing that entry, because again, I have never encountered that surname. Do you have another source to back up this conjecture? Denelson83 09:02, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Check DiC-era merchandise. That's all I can tell you. Danny Lilithborne 09:03, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Again, I still think it's an error. This reminds me of the dispute over #2's surname being "Anderson" or "Mizuno". Denelson83 09:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Blame lack of planning on DiC's part. I guess they weren't sure if Sailor Moon would last, so they didn't bother giving Raye or the others a last name. Danny Lilithborne 09:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I have just submitted a corrigendum to IMDB regarding this doubtful information. Denelson83 09:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, let me know how they respond. Danny Lilithborne 09:39, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * May I comment..? Considering these "alter egos" are in an oversimplication the same entities, just in past lives, I think that merging them seems justified, as many episodes make references to each character's past life on relation to the character. Its somewhat redundant to have seperate articles. Just my opinion.-MegamanZero|Talk 09:07, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * If that's what the Wikipedia moderators decides needs to be done, fine; I just don't want to be the one to have to do it. Danny Lilithborne 09:09, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * May I say, both IMD pro and TV.com refer to Usagi/Serena's mother as Mrs. Campbell, so it's highly likely that her name was/is Campbell. Sergeant Snopake 12/03/06 19:37

King (SNK character)

 * Hey, Danny... Just thought I'd give you a heads-up on this article, seems some fellow by the name of Snk 444 keeps reverting it to match his fancruft. Seeing as you dabble in KOF, Street Fighter, etc. as much as I do, I was wondering if you'd put your opinion regarding your consensus on the talk page. I tried talking to him, but he ignored me and blatantly said: Hey Fucko, my version is better, the fans like it more, or something to that effect. Cheers. -MegamanZero|Talk 14:40, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, dude... you're facing the SNK fanboy, they're unstoppable. You should know that after your beef with TheOrgy.  Ignore shit long enough, and someone will come along and clean it up to get rid of the stink. Danny Lilithborne 14:46, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * No. Fanboys have no place on Wikipedia, unless they contibute in good faith, and certainly not their POV editing. Its ridiculous to think that we "can't win" agaist trolling like that. And regarding TheOrgy, its already been established that the consensus was against him anyway, and I haven't seen him since. -MegamanZero|Talk 14:53, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's like you said, I only dabble in KOF. My canon strengths are Sailor Moon and Guilty Gear.  KOF's a little out of my league. Danny Lilithborne 14:54, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I'm a more Jack of all trades, but that's irrelevant; and I'm just making a simple query: Does version (the one that violates WP:NOT) work, or this version (which pratices neatness, consensus, and clear regard for WP:N)? -MegamanZero|Talk 15:00, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm more of a visual person, so I'd tend to go with the former, but if it's doesnt conform to Wikipedia standard, I guess you got no choice. Danny Lilithborne 15:01, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. BTW, do you like the template I made for the KOF characters..? If you do, mind helping out and inserting them into any empty KOF articles you see..? Thanks. KOF literaly has a cast of thousands and its gonna take awhile.. -MegamanZero|Talk 15:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll do it whenever I have free time, I have to work on my Killer7 project now. But I promise to get to it when I'm done with all the Wiki work I have to do. Later, man. Danny Lilithborne 03:01, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Mio Kuroki
I notice that you tagged Mio Kuroki for speedy deletion, with the reason "Kuroki Mio is a clone of Queen Beryl that only exists in PGSM.". However, "Kuroki Mio is a clone of Queen Beryl that only exists in PGSM." is not currently a criterion for speedy deletion on Wikipedia. I have removed the speedy deletion notice. If you find that one of the criteria I linked to applies, please feel free to edit the article and apply the relevant speedy deletion notice.

As a courtesy, I have also nominated the article for deletion per the WP:AFD process and you can find the discussion here. You can also include your comments and votes on the matter. Stifle 15:07, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Methinks Danny doesn't trust Anons enough
You said: ''anon edit = no credibility. get an account and try again. REVERT.'' Humorus. Here, take a Barnstar of humor. -MegamanZero|Talk 20:01, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Hey thanks a lot. :D Danny Lilithborne 02:11, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Re: Best Screenname Ever
Why thank you. :) *bows* - Onlynameicanget 07:36, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps
But it smelled a little of link spamming. --Golbez 09:21, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I use YTMND to lighten the mood when I have to be forceful on my talk pages. Danny Lilithborne 09:21, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Be nice
I reverted your deletion of the sister city information in the Washington article because you did not provide any explanation in the edit summary or the talk page. Sister city information is indeed relevant in articles about cities, more relevant than a lot of the crap that goes unchallenged in most articles. The information does need to be sourced, but the way to handle that is to ask for references, and not to summarily delete it, unless you know or strongly suspect that the information is libelous, a copyvio or blatant nonsense. In any case, if you remove information from an article, you need to explain why you did so in the edit summary and, if necessary, in the talk page for the article. --  Dalbury ( Talk )  13:26, 7 January 2006 (UTC) NOTE: All of the links in this comment were added by User:Danny Lilithborne --  Dalbury ( Talk )  15:28, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Glad you felt free!
Just wondered how you came across my userpage? Mushintalk 00:31, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Let's just say a little bird told me. Danny Lilithborne 00:40, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, now I'm stumped! Mushintalk 01:06, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Honestly, galaxia.ytmnd.com so am I. ;_; 05:51, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello!
I'm glad you enjoyed the sentence on my user page. (: — Seven Days  »  talk  04:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Casablanca
Hi, I reverted your changes to Casablanca, for reasons which I hope are clear from the edit summary. I'd be happy to disuss your points on the talk page though, if you're inclined. Mark1 12:32, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Kyuusei hakketsu byou

 * I listed Kyuusei hakketsu byou as an article for deletion. As far as I can tell, I'm not aware of a link between cystinosis and leukemia.  Let me know if I'm acting prematurely.  Andrew73 02:22, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I have cystinosis, and I was recently diagnosed with "kyuusei hakketsu byou". When I asked what it meant, all the doctor could tell me was that it was a Japanese disease and that nobody died of it.  Of course, he was only half right. Danny Lilithborne 03:35, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That's interesting...perhaps the doctor was confusing Fanconi Syndrome for Fanconi's anemia? Andrew73 12:35, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I trust the doctor that made the diagnosis, but I certainly hope to find out before a potentially unnecessary kidney transplant I have due in March. Danny Lilithborne 01:57, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I hope everything turns out well. Andrew73 13:35, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Re Beauty and the Beast

 * King Kong is a notable legacy of Beauty and the Beast. What should an article do besides say what the subject is notable for, explain the subject's legacy? CanadianCaesar The Republic Restored 03:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe have more than one sentence. ;) Danny Lilithborne 05:04, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Baha'i Faith
Thanks for the comment. I must definitely send the thanks back to you as well. I appreciate all the help you've given. The more Baha'is we have here helping out, being able to contribute in a wise manner, the better. I definitely think it's a team effort. We all have our different styles which I think is great and leads to additions and changes others would have not notice, and helps the Faith to be represented correctly. -- Jeff3000 06:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Quran picture
Hi Danny, I just saw the large discussion that went over the inclusion of the Quran image. I think that Wikipedia can be very political, and we should strive to follow Shoghi Effendi's statements about non-involvement in politics. Taking sides in such a controversial discussion and editing, most always causes for the creation of new enemies. Not to say, that I have even been close to non-political, but what I have learnt is that is that at times we have to let go of our emotions, and always speak with a kindly tongue as Abdu'l-Baha explains. I've had many arguments with Dawud for example, and more often than not, when I'm agressive it leads to just lowering myself. My new guideline is wait 15 minutes before I write anything related to an attack on the Faith. I usually change my mind about what I want to say in those 15 minutes. We must also strive not to get the Faith's name in the discussion regarding any controversial decision. -- Jeff3000 04:49, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * If I ever get emotional or do something that you feel is unwise, please do tell me. We got to be frank between ourselves to serve the Faith in the best way possible. -- Jeff3000 05:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Mirzá Abu'l-Fadl
Would you object to my redirecting your Mirzá Abu'l-Fad'l to the Mirzá Abu'l-Fadl article? The second one is older (by only a couple of months), more complete, and I believe the more usual spelling of his name. (He's one of my heroes too.) MARussellPESE 18:10, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Results of the blankpage character test

 * Post your results here if you are so inclined. Don't forget to sign your post with four tildes (~). Danny Lilithborne 08:56, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I am Peter Columbus!: self-sufficient - innovative - pitiless. (pretty accurate) -- Jeff3000 16:38, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm Lenora Tabitha. I told it I'm a male and it gave me a girl character. Its 'cause we share serving others. You couldn't tell on Wiki though. I'm lazy on Wiki. I'm kinda lazy in real life too. That's what I say anyway. Some people I know flatter me by calling me 'overextended.' LambaJan 07:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

An Esperanzial note
As I remember, the last spam that was handed out was on the 20th of December last year, so I think it's time for another update. First and foremost, the new Advisory Council and Administrator General have been elected. They consist of myself as Admin General and FireFox, Titoxd, Flcelloguy and Karmafist as the Advisory Council. We as a group met formally for the first time on the 31st of December. The minutes of this meeting can be found at WP:ESP/ACM. The next one is planned for tonight (Sunday 29 January) at 20:30 UTC and the agenda can be found at WP:ESP/ACM2.

In other news, Karmafist has set up a discussion about a new personal attack policy, which it can be found here. Other new pages include an introductory page on what to do when you sign up, So you've joined Esperanza... and a welcome template: EA-welcome (courtesy of Bratsche). Some of our old hands may like to make sure they do everything on the list as well ;) Additionally, the userpage award program proposal has become official is operational: see Esperanza/User Page Award to nominate a userpage or volunteer as a judge. Also see the proposed programs page for many new proposals and old ones that need more discussion ;)

Other than that, I hope you all had a lovely Christmas and wish you an Esperanzially good new WikiYear :D Thank you! --Cel e stianpower háblame 16:57, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Message delivered by Rune.welsh using AWB. If you wish to recieve no further messages of this ilk, please sign your name here.

Image copyright problem with Image:Endymion4.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Endymion4.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images on Wikipedia is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this:.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. You can get help on image copyright tagging from Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags.

Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny
I am mediating the dispute on Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny in which you are involved. Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-02-09 Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny if you want to comment on it. Thanks --Jaranda wat's sup 21:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

You are very close to breaking 3rr on that page also and I recommend you to stop reverting on it until the dispute is settled. Thanks --Jaranda wat's sup 21:25, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Momochi Zabuza

 * It's not just that Zabuza has teeth, it's that he has sharp teeth as opposed to normal teeth, which is unusual and explains why he's covering up his mouth. I think this information should be included as a trivia. --Ryz05 04:16, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Another Esperanzial note...
Hi again Esperanzians! Well, since our last frolic in the realms of news, the Advisory Council has met twice more (see WP:ESP/ACM2 and WP:ESP/ACM3). As a result, the charter has been ammended twice (see here for details) and all of the shortcuts have been standardised (see the summary for more details). Also of note is the Valentines ball that will take place in the Esperanza IRC channel on the 14th of February (tomorrow). It will start at 6pm UTC and go on until everyone's had enough! I hope to see you all there! Also, the spamlist has been dissolved - all Esperanzians will now recieve this update "newsletter".

The other major notice I need to tell you about is the upcoming Esperanza Advisory Council Elections. These will take place from 12:00 UTC on February 20th to 11:59 UTC on February 27th. The official handing-over will take place the following day. Candidates are able to volunteer any time before the 20th, so long as they are already listed on the members list. Anyone currently listed on the memberlist can vote. In a change since last time, if you have already been a member of the leadership, you may run again. Due to the neutrality precident, I will not vote for anyone.

Yours, as ever, Esperanzially,

--Cel es tianpower háblame 09:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

(message delivered by FireFox using AWB on Celestianpower's behalf)

Chun Li
You cited on the CHun Li page: "Do the work, then. I'm only telling you the logical consequences of your actions. I'm "miffed" because Chun-Li is the only Street Fighter character with a techniques list, which obviously shows favoritism on the part of whoever keeps putting the techniques back."

Please assume good faith my friend. Other contributors are merely trying to edit and construct an informative encyclopedia. While I agree to a extent on leaving the saturaration out, I believe us all to have wikipedia's well-being in mind. To that end, I'd request your assitance - you cite it as consequenal to construct an complilation list concerning the attacks. If you'll concur, I'd like your help; please give me lists of attacks for all the SF characters at your leisure. I'll do the tables for each character myself. Then, proceeding the skills article expansion, we'll remove the attacks from chun Li's page and insert an link to the table. Hopefully, to this end, we can reach an agreement and make another net gain to wikipedia. I'd love to hear your opinion on this, and if you disagree, I'd be estatic to hear any others.-ZeroTalk 17:26, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Re: Eagle (Street Fighter)
Relax. Eagle's Street Fighter Zero 3 Double Upper (released on the PSP in Japan last month) intro mentions that he's a "master of Bojutsu". IIRC, its North American release is next month. If you want me to leave his fighting style as 'Unknown' until next month when it comes out, that's fine by me. Btw if you've designated yourself as the one in charge of the SF bios then I just wanna say that Fighting Style names are the least of your problems when you take all tha character bios' inaccuracies/inconsistencies into consideration. KythringRB 21:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Chris Penn
I don't really think his death needs to be noted on the main article for 2006; I seriously doubt that he'll be among the 20 or so most significant entertainment figures to die this year, and I think it's not advisable to let the article get too cluttered with entries. There are at least two or three other pages where it's completely reasonable to list his death. But I'll leave it for now; we'll see as the year goes on. MisfitToys 23:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Kyo Kusanagi and Terry Bogard
There seems to be an minor case of POV pushing regarding some recent edits on the Terry Bogard and Kyo Kusanagi articles. I've constructed posts regarding this on their talkpages respectively, if you wish to participate in the discussion. -ZeroTalk 14:34, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Street Fighter edit summaries
Hi. Would you consider moderating your comments on your edit summeries ( and ) to be more civil in the future...? Many of them look to me like personal attacks, and other editors could take offense. -ZeroTalk 03:11, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Sailor Senshi - Birth year
Re: edit on Usagi Tsukino All the sailor senshi have known birth years. For the inner senshi, this is 1980. The problem being that this is not explicitly stated within the canon and requires working through the hints and guides that are in the canon. Many people are under the mistaken assumption that because BSSM was first aired in 1992/3, and that Usagi was 14 at the time, that she was born in 1978. This date does not make sense with the other dates provided throughout the series, nor does it have any canon evidence to back it up. The 1980 date does have evidence, despite it being vague. --59.167.56.186 23:00, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Gabriel
The Gabriels Fallen (band) has relevence in this article! There was a debate over notablity of the band and the final outcome was that it was indeed notable enough to keep their page. Therefore by those same standards the Gabriels Fallen part in the music section should be kept.

Stressed
Sorry to hear that you are stressed. Sit back with some tasty Esperanza coffee and relax! Let the world blow by. -- Nataly a 18:08, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Same here. Tip:  Don't worry so much about the lawyers.  They all take themselves way too seriously.  And so far I haven't seen Wiki back down yet, even when the Foundation was sued for real (see Tron case).  So I'd have some faith and see how it's all sorted out.  :)  --Mmounties ( Talk )  [[Image:pawprint.png|20px]] 23:08, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Computer and video game culture
Hi, I saw you contributed to the CVG cliches article. If you are interested in this subject, you might want to help out in the current Gaming Collaboration of the week, which is Computer and video game culture. Cheers,  jaco plane  05:15, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Illegal Sailor Moon Websites
Hi, Danny. I just wanted to ask why the pages I added are illegal. These pages provided content of music and episodes that are no longer released to the U.S. I mean, I know the series was licensed to North America as a dubbed project, but the licenses expired last year for North America's Sailor Moon, which would make the content legal again, wouldn't it? I was just wondering if the content would still be illegal or not. Thanks for taking the time to read this query. Please respond back and sorry for my ignorance in legal activites. -24.99.158.9 05:07, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Stars isn't licensed; everything else still is. Danny Lilithborne 20:28, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Re:Illegal Sailor Moon Websites
Hi, Danny. I went on the web to find some sites for you to look at to prove that the licenses have already expired. The first license for DIC, the company who was involved with Sailor Moon up to Sailor Moon R, had the licenses expire in March 31, 2004. The licenses for the DVD's, held by ADV, also expired in March. Geneon's licenses for the movies expired on December 31, 2004. Finally, the Sailor Moon S and Sailor Moon SuperS licenses expired in June 2005 for both the DVDs and series. If you still don't believe me, then please contact me back. Some of the other websites in the links page for Sailor Moon would also contain illegal content. You can see these websites to make sure about the licenses. -24.98.81.66 22:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailor_Moon_(English_version)#Home_Video

http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=1212

http://www.iwaynet.net/~sos/kablooey.html

http://www.eternalsailormoon.org/updates.html
 * I'm still a little uncomfortable about it. You should talk to Wikipedia moderators about the issue. Danny Lilithborne 22:09, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Re:Street Fighter character articles

 * I was not using false information, but info I acquired from the Street Fighter series itself. That would make it genuine, but if it gives you that much tension, I will no longer attempt to put in the correct information. Axle Starr 01:39, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Not what I meant. It's my fault though, I worded it incorrectly. Bottom line, I wont change it now. Axle Starr 03:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:JuJube/Old Archives 2006-1


text:
Talk:Edward Leigh

Untitled
Um, vampires and magic? That's got to be vandalism. I'll delete it soon unless it's defended with a cite. LeoO3 06:47, 31 August 2005 (UTC) Well, he is a racist, xenophobe, fascist and mostly likely treasonous swine. Hopefully he is thrown out of the parliament and imprisoned for treason very soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.243.44.132 (talk) 22:59, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

On the other hand, he WAS associated with a crackpot ufologist in connection with a sinister organisation (CPS) which sought to undermine CND by using dubious means. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.136.217.164 (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

"As a prominent Roman Catholic Leigh has sort to portray continental European corporatism (the official socio economic policy of the Vatican)as being compatible with traditional British Conservatism but of course the former is continental, Catholic, corporatist eurofederalist and supranational whereas the party to which he beloings is nationist, Anglican, free enterprise capitalist and Conservative." At best this needs to be rewritten, but I don't see that it adds anything to the article unless there are examples of tensions between European corporatism and British conservatism manifesting themselves in Leigh's career. UmbertoM 00:02 12 January 2007 (UTC)

"...all of his children will be in the line of succession to the British throne around the 600th mark providing they are not catholic". Since, presumably, they are being brought up as Catholics, is this phrase strictly relevant? Widmerpool 06:37, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Leigh line
This article has recently(?) been linked from numerous articles relating to his distant ancestors or their seat, in the form Leigh, as a proxy for the nonexistent Leigh family. Seems not entirely appropriate. Opinions? —Tamfang (talk) 01:05, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

 * I think he is related to Hitler, at least he espouses
 * some of the Hitler's rhetoric. You know apple doesn't fall far from the tree. 90.243.44.132 (talk) 23:03, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

193.82.155.28
193.82.155.28 has made numerous idiosyncratic edits ...

 * opposition to abortion → opposition of abortion
 * "Opposition of X" sounds to me like a synonym of "opposition by X".

 * His wife Mary is descended from a sister of King George III, and is thus in the line of succession to the British throne. → removed thus
 * Removing thus makes the two facts seem unrelated.

 * Sir Neville Leigh KCVO → Sir Neville Leigh KCVO
 * Linking Sir is overlinking in violation of policy, as well as redundant given the nearby link to Royal Victorian Order. Meanwhile, the late Sir Neville seems a likely candidate for a future article.

 * An ardent supporter of Margaret Thatcher → An arch supporter of Margaret Thatcher
 * arch (adj.) has at least two meanings, and the one intended ought to have a hyphen. Was he indeed one of her principal supporters?

 * Number 10 Downing Street → Number 10 Downing Street
 * Why?! That's just weird.

 * As such, Leigh was recently offered but rejected the HM Ambassadorship to the Holy See, presumably because it could be just a short-term appointment.
 * As what? As President of the Cornerstone Group? It's not obvious how that follows.
 * Majesty is irrelevant here; more overlinking.
 * Someone please tell me "the HM Ambassadorship" is not standard usage in Westminster...
 * We don't presume to read his mind.

 * thePeerage.com
 * Debrett's People of Today
 * Pointless links to the front pages of these sites, which I've already deleted once on this article and numerous others, inviting links to relevant pages. 193.82.155.28 did replace a third analogous link with a better one.

Also, a bunch of new links will need disambiguating. —Tamfang (talk) 08:04, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

 * As per third point above, Neville Leigh now has his own article. WatermillockCommon (talk) 10:23, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 4 external links on Edward Leigh. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121020192116/http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/edward-leigh/25183 to http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/edward-leigh/25183
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110201024842/http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23918264-boris-johnson-urges-george-osborne-over-lower-taxes.do to http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23918264-boris-johnson-urges-george-osborne-over-lower-taxes.do
 * Added tag to http://assembly.coe.int/ASP/AssemblyList/AL_MemberDetails.asp?MemberID=6670%2F
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120908183520/http://www.debretts.com/people/biographies/browse/l/1207/Edward+Julian.aspx to http://www.debretts.com/people/biographies/browse/l/1207/Edward+Julian.aspx
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051101005248/http://www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/committee_of_public_accounts.cfm to http://www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/committee_of_public_accounts.cfm

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 05:50, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Edward Leigh