text:
Talk:Official Irish Republican Army

Untitled
With apologies to everyone, I've reorganised the discussion into two threads:

Stalinism
With regards to Demiurge, the term "Stalinist" is entirely appropriate. It is not a value judgement of their politics. One need only look at their politics, they embraced: the "Stages Theory" approach to revolution and the concept of the "popular front". These are two things which distinguish Stalinism from other variants of Marxism (Western, Trotskyist, Post-Marxist,Neo-Marxist etc.) On top of this they, in their present incarnation, still refer to the former eastern bloc states, as being "socialist" and the Soviet Union as being "socialist". These are positions consistent with an organisation having a Stalinist framework. This is not about having a NPOV, what this is about is precision of terminology. Whilst calling them "Marxists" is not entirely inaacurate it is unnecessarily vague. DBE

 * Hi, DBE, and welcome. The problem is that they never claimed to be Stalinist.  Some of them claimed to be Marxists, others used the term 'socialist'.  To the best of my knowlede, no published book described them as 'Stalinist'.  The term 'Stalinist' has other connations which may not be appropriate to the Stickies - regards - --ClemMcGann 13:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi Clem, I think that the question that need be asked is when they refer to themselves as "Marxists" or "Socialists" what precisely do they mean? OSF/WP, Labour, the SP, SWP, and probably SF would all self-identify as "socialist" yet they dont have the same politics. Furthermore, OSF/WP, SP, and the SWP all self-identify as being "Marxist" and yet again they dont have the same politics...therefore, in my opinion, more terminological precision is required. If this be true then the term "Stalinist" is, at least to me, the most accurate characterisation of their politics.DBE

 * Consider their non-intervention in sectarian riots. As 'Marxists' they weren't going to attack the 'working class' even if they were protestants.  When the early provs went fund-raising in the states they labelled the stickies as 'communist'.  As I said, 'stalinist' has other connations.  There are many books written on this topic.  I have yet to read one which called them 'stalinist' --ClemMcGann 00:22, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

 * No sourcebook I have seen, nor academic thesis (and one was done on the Official IRA by a student in QUB) suggest Stalinist. An Phoblacht openly called the party marxist from I think circa 1967 if I memory serves me well. (Its a decade since I read copies of An Phoblacht from that era in the Linenhall Library.)  Fear ÉIREANN [[Image:Ireland coa.png|10px]]\(caint)  00:57, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The term Trotskyist was certainly used, as was Stalinist, but both perjoratively. I doubt that those using them had read the works of either.  The terms were short hand for "opportunist" or "authoritarian".  Reading the relevant Wiki articles now makes the mapping with either hard to fathom! --Red King 19:52, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Clem, The problem for much of the last 70 or 80 years Marxism was not seriously differentiated from the politics of the Soviet Union and of Stalin. Despite the ease at which one could see the divergance... at least if one wishes to do so. Even in the post 1989 era they often are still often not differentiated, I suspect for differing though ultimately self-serving reasons. One need not have a PhD in political theory to see how seriously the politics of Stalinism and those of Marxism differentiate from each other on a number of fundemental areas. The politics of the Official Republican Movement were, and in their present incarnation still are, in the ares of "popular frontism", "stages theory", a pro-UUSR/Eastern Bloc (viewed as socialist)and a dependence of "parliamentarism" rather than mass movements puts them squarely in the camp of the Stalinist version of Marxism. Their politics speak for themselves. To label them unqualifyingly as "Marxist" is unnecessarily vague and is by itself is inaccurate. In doing so one is effectively claiming that their is no significat difference between them and other "Marxist" groups such as the SWP or SP, or for that matter from the Shinning Path in Peru. I for one believe that there are differences between these parties and it is because they have different "Marxisms" that need to be differentiated for the sake of clarity, terminological precision, and intellectual honesty. Clem, you mightn't be able to find a book that specifically refers to them as "Stalinist" but then I have never seen a book written about them that was written from the critical perspective of a Marxist. However, I can refer you to litany of books that discuss the diversity within Marxist thought in excrutiating detail and you can see for yourself exactly where the ORM/WP falls ideologically. Finally, you argue that "Stalinist" is a pejorative, well in many places so is "Marxist" 69.119.74.121

 * It was I who remarked that the term "stalinist" was being used perjoratively. Your argument is a good one and deserves to be added if we can find a suitable form of words.   Stalin died in 1953, 15 years before these events.  I don't think that the term Khrushchevist exists?  Were they communists?  They were certainly portrayed as such.  The comment about "another Cuba in Europe's backyard" was certainly current at the time.  Remember at the same time, France was in flames (well Paris) and the Bader-Meinhof were active in Germany.  So may I pick out one thing you said However, I can refer you to litany of books that discuss the diversity within Marxist thought in excrutiating detail and you can see for yourself exactly where the ORM/WP falls ideologically.  and invite you to do exactly what you suggest.  Indeed it would be really excellent if you can provide a context of contemporaneous European (incl UK) ideology.  Have a look at IRA (1922-1969) as well, because there is more on the Communist cross-membership there. --Red King 19:57, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Paul LeBlanc "From Marx to Gramsci: A Reader in Revolutionary Marxist Politics" Jules Townsend "The Politics of Marxism: The Critical Debates" Tom Bottlemore "A Dictionary of Marxist Thought" Stephen E. Bronner & Douglas M. Kellner "Critical Theory and Society: A Reader" You may wish to compare J. Stalin's "Selected Works" and L. Trotsky's "Permanent Revolution" and "The Revolution Betrayed" 69.119.74.121

 * Actually what I had in mind, since you are clearly familiar with these texts, was that you write the comparative material that puts the Stickies' Marxism in context. You might even be able to show that "Stalinist" is the most appropriate tag!  --Red King 00:38, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

 * The problem with 'Stalinist' is that organisations described as Stalinist universally consider it to be pejorative. Its use to describe "orthodox" or "philo-Soviet" communist parties is rejected by all these parties, who term themselves "Marxist-Leninist". Of course they aren;t the only ones to do so, so do Maoists. The so-called "Stalinists" consider that a lot of what Stalin is best known for - show trials, purges, the huge-scale imprisonment in the Gulag of imagined opponents, etc - was criminal, so calling them Stalinists is arguably rather unfair. They would certainly argue so. "Marxist" describes the Sticks adequately, "pro-Soviet" would also be an accurate description. Palmiro | Talk 13:18, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Planters as traditional enemies
"whereas the traditionalists continued to see the Unionist population as foreign planters and historic ememies". This is a mischaracterisation of the Provisionals position and is not reflective of their ideology then, or now. I do question its NPOV DBE

 * That was certainly the flavour at the time - that they saw the Loyalists and Orange Order as very definitely the enemy; also that their role was to "defend the nationalist (read Catholic) community". Of course this may have been Machiavellian - get the young hot-heads signed up and then persuade them to attack the British Army.  And the Shankhill Road chipshop bombing is a lot more recent than the split. Maybe the Provo historical revisionists would prefer nowadays to airbrush out that aspect of the chronology, but it is certainly part of it.  There was a great deal of unashamedly sectarian violence. --Red King 19:52, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Red King, those may well be your perceptions of the what the "Provos" think or thought, but it does not stand up to serious scrutiny. Though it may pain you to admit, the Provos do exist within a political sphere not a sectarian one. To label them as viewing the Unionists as 'foreign' or the 'enemy' is ENTIRELY SUBJECTIVE and is not a NPOV, it is in fact the point of view of the unionists and they are hardly neutral69.119.74.121

 * I only remark on what I saw and heard over 30 years to be the case on the ground - a great deal of sectarian conflict. That was certainly the perception of the Officials.  I don't disagree that there was also (and especially in latter years) "good old fashioned Republican Brits Out violence", but that was by no means all of it.  I also don't disagree that the Loyalist violence was unremittingly sectarian.  So whether the Povos ever declared outright that the "Planters" were the enemy, that is how they behaved. However I acknowledge that you have me on the "no original research" rule, so I can't revert if you edit it out.  Unless someone else has the research evidence? --Red King 19:55, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I recall an AP article written shortly after Sunningdale collapsed and Ruari O'Bradaigh commenting on what the Loyalists had been able to achieve (referring to the strike) and musing on what would be possible if Republicans and Loyalists would be able to get together as a common political force. The enemy for the Provos was the state and its agents (police, army, paramilitaries) not the general Protestant population (obviously they will disagree). The fact is that even in the most militant Republican areas there are Protestants living as they always have done so. The cold, hard truth of the matter is that if Protestants had been viewed as the enemy there wouldn't be any left west of the Bann. DBE Also, one must look at the surnames Adams,Morrison,Hannaway-surely those names indicate possible Protestant "Planter" forefathers.As a person of Irish Catholic ancestry on my father's side, but brought up in the Protestant religion, I can attest to the fact that not once has a Nationalist ever verbally attacked me on the basis of my religion or my mother's Ulster "planter " surname.My POV,obviously, but I had to say it here to back up the last user.--jeanne (talk) 18:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)--jeanne (talk) 18:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)--jeanne (talk) 18:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Mao and Seamus Costello?
By what stretch were the INLA/IRSP Maoist? As I understand it, even in its early days the Republican Socialist Movement included leftists of many different stripes. 64.229.184.240, 20 Sept

 * I found that one odd too. Is there any evidence to support it?  Because if not, it should go.  Bernadette McAliskey was a leading light in the early IRSP before the nutters took over.  She was fairly hard left, but not Maoist by any stretch of the imagination.  --Red King 23:02, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, it don't say that no more. If anyone wants to put it back in, a reliable source should be quoted. Palmiro | Talk 23:24, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject IRA?
Hi all, I'm rather new to the Wiki (just joined up a few days ago), but the whole WikiProject concept seems like an effective tool for gathering a group of people together to work on a specific subject. I'm primarily interested in contributing to areas related to Irish nationalism, and the Irish Republican Army, and I've noticed a few of you have quite a lot of involvement in the same area. So, I wonder if anyone would be interested in forming a WikiProject focusing on Irish Nationalism? WikiProject Irish Republicanism seems like a good title to me! WP:IRA would be a great shortcut! I'm posting this up on many different pages, so I would especially appreciate it if, if you're interested, you would join me at User talk:Johnathan Swift.  Erin Go Bragh  06:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposed move
Official IRA -> Official Irish Republican Army. Regardless of the merits of the "Official IRA" name the PIRA, CIRA and RIRA all follow the latter standard, so this should be the same for the sake of consistency. One Night In Hackney 303 17:09, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * seconded.--Vintagekits 17:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Areas of activity
The article states that OIRA were confined mainly to the Falls Road and Markets areas of Belfast but seeing as Ballymuphy saw quite a bit of activity such as feuding between the INLA and OIRA surely Ballymurphy should be added to the article.jeanne (talk) 07:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC) Also Cork had an OIRA presence in late 1970's and it isn't mentioned in article.Overalljeanne (talk) 07:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC),Ithink article needs expanding.jeanne (talk) 07:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

 * "Two of the men responsible for the murder  fled to  Cork,  where they were looked after by  local Official IRA  contacts" is hardly them having units in Cork. It's the nature of all variants of the IRA that they have "contacts" like that all over the place. I'm unsure where Ballymurphy comes into it either as that was largely Provo territory. I think we're trying to point out their most active areas or pockets of support, not everywhere they had members.  One Night In Hackney  303  20:47, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

 * ONIH,I'm not trying to be contentious nor authoritarian, but I happen to know from a reliable source that the OIRA were somewhat active in the Ballymurphy area.In fact, there were many attacks on members of OIRA by INLA and vice-versa.But I agree that Ballymurphy was a very strong Provo stronghold.The OIRA members who lived there were given a lot of stick.Unfortunately,ONIH, I absolutely cannot list my source for this info;I can only say ,that in 1986,I had a boyfriend from Ballymurphy.But obviously,I cannot state his name, so I suppose my additions to article cannot be adequately05:56, 9 April 2008 (UTC)jeanne (talk) substantiated.A pity because the OIRA has been somewhat been pushed into the shadows by the activities and publicity of the PIRA.The article needs a bit more "meat" if you catch my drift.--jeanne (talk) 11:28, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I'll take a look at the sources I have later, but I'm dubious. Ballymurphy didn't see much armed activity for quite some time, as the policy of the "unnamed" Provo OC there was to radicalise the people by encouraging them to riot against the British Army each day, and shootings and bombings were deliberately discouraged to allow this to happen. Therefore I'm somewhat dubious that while this was happening the Sticks were particularly active in Ballymurphy, or at least active enough to merit a mention. One Night In Hackney  303  17:29, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Alas,ONIH,my boyfriend didn't exactly provide me with names and I have no doubt that what little he used to tell me was the truth;but I'll admit before I knew him ,I hadn't realised there was any sizeablejeanne (talk) 11:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC) OIRA activity in Ballymurphy.Yet...the things he would occasionally mention ; they weren't just exaggerated macho stuff to impress me.He knew perfectly well what he was talking about.But I just cannot give his name or even his nickname.Sorry.
 * ONIH,as I recall "S" as I shall henceforth refer to my ex-boyfriend,did tell me something about there being mostly action taken against the British Army rather than bombings,etc.Would this be the reaction of the PIRA to the Springfield Road massacre in July 1972 when the Catholic priest was shot dead by the British along with several young people?Also,"S" did tell me he left home at 16 and spent the next few years living in various digs and kipping at friend's houses.He seemed to have lived near the Springfield Rd.So what you are saying ONIH,is beginning to refresh my memory of the conversations I used to have with"S".Perhaps he was referring to the Falls Rd. area and not Ballymurphy after all.In 1972 he would have been about 16 years old.Yeah, ok I probably made a mistake due to my faulty memory.Have you found anything, by the way?jeanne (talk) 15:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It's been about 5 months since I posted this in regards to areas of activity for the Sticks. ONIH is no longer at Wiki but can any other editor discover the truth as to whether or not the OIRA had much support in Ballymurphy and Cork. I happen to personally know that there were Sticks in Ballymurphy as well as Cork as late as 1979.--jeanne (talk) 16:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC)--jeanne (talk) 16:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC) Actually what is needed is sourced proof that they operated in the said areas. I cannot give my source's name.--jeanne (talk) 17:00, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

cia involvement? there have been many rumours of cia backing towards the ira. it was first brought to my attention by al murry on mock the week. is there any evidence to thi accusations and if so what was the purpose of the funding?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.88.161.224 (talk) 00:18, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Mock the Week (a UK comedy television show) hardly counts as being evidence of anything.Coolavokig (talk) 08:06, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Why stop at 1975?
They shot Seamus Costello in 1977. They did some stuff after that too. The only sensible date for the infobox is when they declared a ceasefire surely? O Fenian (talk) 03:08, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
 * After giving this more thought the only date which can be sourced for them to have actually stopped is May 1972. Otherwise you are looking at an event and deciding "there's nothing after it", which may or may not be true. Even in 2005 they were called largely inactive, are we going to go back to the bizarre "1969-current" version with no source to say they are currently active as of 2009? A caveat about some activity since 1972 may be the best way to deal with it, but the only possible date that can go in the infobox is 1972, no other date can be sourced. O Fenian (talk) 11:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Leaders
In the infobox it says its leaders were unknown; wasn't Cathal Goulding one of the leaders? If so, his name should be in the infobox.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:05, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

"came to be known popularly as Provisional Sinn Féin"
I have no idea why User:ÓCorcráin keeps removing this sourced info. They insist here and on the PIRA page that sources like RTE are "non-neutral." That seems to be a total misinterpretation of our neutral point of view and reliable sources policies. Sources do not have to be neutral,WP:RS specifically says: "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective." So removing sourced info on that basis is unacceptable. Furthermore, it's incredibly hard to see how American authors with no track record in the conflict and an IRA historian like J Bowyer Bell, who even gets a glowing obituary entitled "an appreciation" in An Phoblacht, are non-neutral! ÓCorcráin in their latest edit then insists on the production of "official data from electoral records." No. First those would be primary sources and Wikipedia prefers secondary sources, secondly no one is claiming that there are "electoral records" showing "a political party called Provisional Sinn Féin." So that is a classic strawman argument. What is being claimed is that those who supported the Provisional Army Council "came to be known popularly as ... [[Provisional Sinn Féin]" A search of google and google books shows up thousands of sources showing that that is so. The party itself even seems to have used Sinn Féin (Provisional) in early publications. This should be changed back to the previous version, unless better justification for removing this well referenced info is found. [[User:Valenciano|Valenciano]] (talk) 17:11, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You are disregarding the context.There are plenty of sources that contradict your assertion but I know despite the fact if I was to link them here, it will just go on and on. Sinn Féin are not called Provisional Sinn Féin (FACT), there no electoral records of any party who have participated in elections under Provisional Sinn Féin in the south and north of Ireland (FACT), Sinn Féin today is not call Provisional Sinn Féin (FACT). Hence the party is called Sinn Féin and should be called as such, I fail to comprehend how you cannot understand these simple facts. ÓCorcráin (talk) 17:34, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The context is that you are changing "came to be known popularly as Provisional Sinn Féin or Sinn Féin (Kevin Street)" to "came to be known popularly as Sinn Féin (Kevin Street.)" No one has mentioned elections contested or any of the other red herrings that you've thrown in and amongst all those "facts" you've omitted the one most relevant to this discussion: that they were popularly known as Provisional Sinn Féin. That is attested to by multiple reliable sources. Whether you like that or not is another matter, but we're here to report what reliable sources say. You're also changing "Those defeated in the motion walked out" to the grammatically incorrect and questionable "Those motion was defeated and resulted in a split between Sinn Féin and the other as what was then known as Official Sinn Féin."
 * What is your problem with "those defeated in the motion walked out?" It's exactly what happened. The rest we can change to "this resulted in a split into two separate groups with the Sinn Féin name. One, referred to in the media as Provisional Sinn Féin or Sinn Féin (Kevin Street), contested elections as Sinn Féin, while the other, referred to in the media as Official Sinn Féin or Sinn Féin (Gardiner Street), later became the Workers' Party." If you can think of a better wording, then go ahead and propose it. Valenciano (talk) 17:59, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Official Irish Republican Army. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110930203153/http://www.newstin.com/rel/us/en-010-019069630 to http://www.newstin.com/rel/us/en-010-019069630
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130609140942/http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7019958.ece to http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7019958.ece

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This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects
After making some changes to the This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects section above, I realized that I should ask for discussion about the changes here. Please discuss the changes above, and say whether is any problem or not.--Dthomsen8 (talk) 00:27, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

'Stickies'
The Officials were known as 'the Stickies' throughout nationalist Belfast – not merely by those in the West of the city. This is a glaring error in the Intro Billsmith60 (talk) 18:32, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Official Irish Republican Army


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gender roles in Islam

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS, which defaults to KEEP Paul August ☎ 03:11, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Gender roles in Islam
Almost entirely original research. The sources cited do not match the claims made. Any actual encyclopedic information on this subject can already be found on Women in Islam, which I would suggest this re-direct to. Irishpunktom\talk 11:55, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

Keep Admittedly as the guy who did most of the work I have an interest. But there is no original research. The sources do match the claims made. Much of the information here is not found on Women in Islam although a merger of parts is in the works. This call is totally premature given the work going on to fix the problems. A peer review would probably be the more sensible option. I urge people to read the article(s) for themselves. Lao Wai 12:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep, after reading the article's talk page I'm detecting a whiff of bad faith here, to be honest. The article DOES need work, admittedly, and I'd support deletion if it can't be improved james gibbon  12:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Regarding your suggestion, I have been trying to work with this, I mean compare what the opening paragraph was like when I began work on it. Note too how Lao Wai constantly removes my request for citations, and constantly includes the allusion that all women of Medina were all Ansari (Helpers of Muhamad) - That is obviously untrue, but he keeps adding it anyway. , , .  Note also how The Source he uses to justify his assertion "Obviously this is a vision of Heaven that is more likely to appeal to men. Eternally virgin dark-eyed Houris are unlikely to appeal to many women" says nothing of the sort, in fact is says almost the opposite ("The life of women in Jannah will be as pleasant and happy as the life of men. Allah is not partial to any gender. He created both of them and He will take care of both of them according to their needs and desires. Let us all work to achieve the Jannah and then, in sha’ Allah, we will find there what will satisfy all of us fully."). Anyway, besides that, anything of any merit is already dealt with in Women in Islam, a more stable and more Accurate and more NPOV piece.--Irishpunktom\talk 13:52, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * Look this is not the place for a slanging match over this. I flatly deny saying what you have just said I said.  If you want to discuss this in a civilised manner I suggest we take it to the Talk Page where it belongs.  Again I urge anyone who cares to read the relevant pages. Lao Wai 15:02, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep. We do have separate articles for women and gender roles in Western culture, so why not Islam? Having NPOV problems is definitely not a sufficient reason to go to VfD. Sdedeo 14:12, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Women in Islam --Grcampbell 16:39, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep 'gender' is not the same thing as 'women'. Trollderella 17:35, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep 'gender' is not the same thing as 'women'. Homophobia and sexism related to gender roles is a big problem in muslim societies. Notable topic. Klonimus 22:05, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge as per Grcampbell. Women and gender aren't the same thing, but women are, you know, a gender.  Information about women in Islam = information about one of Islam's gender roles. Penelope D 17:56, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, but this article should be about both gender roles in Islam, not about women in Islam. Trollderella 19:24, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Which part of this article would suggest would not have a place in women in Islam?--Irishpunktom\talk 15:44, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

 * Redirect or delete without merge. This vote may not be taken as any form of 'keep'. The scant references in the article (one of them is a link to Google!!) do not persuade me that this is not-original research and here is not the place for such. Get good references in there, and I'll reconsider. Otherwise, it needs to go, per WP:NOR. If this can be rewritten as a proper article, it can of course stay. -Splash 19:17, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what your vote means. You cannot redirect without keeping the content, unless you mean delete then recreate a redirect? Trollderella 19:24, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes you can! You can simply blank a page and turn it into a redirect. That complies with the GFDL. The only thing you can't do is delete after copy-paste merging. -Splash 23:12, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Merge, or better, Merge Women in Islam into it. --Sebastian Kessel Talk 20:18, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per Trollderella. Did I just say that? --GraemeL (talk) 20:37, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge - with Women in Islam, or merge Women In Islam into it. Daemon8666 22:17, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Jachin 22:20, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Probably merge (for now) - hypotheticaly 'women in' and 'gender roles in' are two distinct subjects - but these are not currently two distinct articles. A clear demarkation is required, and some heavy NPOVing. I'd suggest merging and then dividing in some other way - perhaps an article on the Qu'ran material and one on Islam today. Do not 'keep' as stands. --Doc (?) 23:14, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep Article is SERIOUSLY flawed, but the topic is legit. Woman in Islam does not equate gender roles in Islam. --Striver 17:49, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep You guys blow, like a hurricane. roll offle. Gold Stur 21:01, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep needs work, but what doesn't Roodog2k 00:51, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep There is definitly scope for a serious article in the topic. Women in Islam and Gender roles in Islam are clearly two separate topics. Bandraoi 14:59, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

The topic is great but I think whole article needs thorough revision in terms of contents as well as style. In current form, I beleive it should be deleted.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Talk:Avoidant personality disorder

Fanatical deletion of relevant non-profit links
Nonprofit helping links devoted to helping people with avoidant personality disorder should not have been removed from this site. Wikipedia does not prohibit having a few (relevant) nonprofit resource links added in an "External Links Section" at the bottom of the page.

Wikipedia policy discourages fanatical, obsessive and especially thoughtless removal of links. A relevant nonprofit link has nothing in common with a commercial link, although some wiki editors haven't figured that out...

I ask for help from administrators and editors to prevent or reverse fanatical removal of relevant nonprofit links from this site... Please appeal over the heads of thoughtless nonprofit link removals. Aggressive removal of appropriate links is vandalism.

69.171.160.192 (talk) 21:14, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Kantor's book
I'm not sure Kantor's book should be referenced here, at least not without a caveat. Most of the cases he discusses seem to be about what we'd call "commitment-phobic" behaviours rather than the more broad spectrum of AvPD, i.e. general avoidance of social interaction, and the problems this produces.--Eyeresist 01:34, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Novel research #2
As I mentioned in the Borderline Personality Disorder discussion page, I'm doing some research for a novel I'm writing, with a character who I thought had BDP. Having read this article on Avoidant Personality Disorder though, it seems like my character is more of an AvPD than a BPD. Thanks Wikipedia! However, I think those with AvPD share some similarities with BPDs. It's interesting stuff.

- Geelin 14:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If someone can please refer me to some professionals in Sydney, Australia, whom I can speak to about AvPD for my novel, that would be most appreciated. Can anyone assist me?

Cheers, Geelin 08:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Social phobia vs. avoidant personality disorder
Do all Social Phobics have Avoidant Personality Disorder? If not, how do you confidently distinguish the two? This article's discription of APD sounds like things that go on in the mind of a clinically socially anxious person.--J. Daily 19:05, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is puzzling me too. What is the difference between Social Anxiety Disorder and AvPD? By the way, does that 'hello baby' belong in the mnemonic section?! Khirad 05:25, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The article says "Research suggests that people with avoidant personality disorder, in common with social phobics, excessively monitor their own internal reactions when they are involved in social interaction. However, unlike social phobics they also excessively monitor the reactions of the people with whom they are interacting." I would appreciate it if anyone could tell me if this is accurate, or if there are any other differences. --DearPrudence 17:57, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I was diagnosed with AvPD nearly 6 years ago and I've done a lot research on AvPD and Social Phobia. From what I've learned, the difference is very little, but basically the feeling of anxiety in AvPD is a lot more severe. I had AvPD so bad that I couldn't even apply for a job or have any friends. It was to the point where I had to either ask for help or commit suicide. Fortunately, I sought help. I'm so much better now...have several friends, going to college, and have a job... So, yeah, that's my two cents. Ioxmo 02:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I think this article should make clear that, contrarily to some other disorders related to social interaction, a person suffering from AvPD is not happy with avoiding social interaction and staying alone, and yearns to somehow find the strength to communicate with other people and let them know her true self and be appreciated just like anybody else. I was diagnosed with AvPD myself and by no means does it mean that I will not attend a party or any social gathering. I actually seek such gatherings, each time hoping that it will be the day when I will really talk to friends who will be there and whom I love. Rano —The preceding unsigned comment was added by USER NAME OR IP (talk • contribs).

 * I really do like it when the discussion becomes circular and returns to the subject with an insight or formulation of a need to be addressed in the article. However, I also feel the need to stay on task, to be concise, and perhaps limit the personal confessional side a bit. Many of us also have experiences to share but, in my opinion, refraining from overdoing it will help the work of editing this article by staying on task. Personal talk pages might be a better place.Bearpa 03:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the main difference is that one is a phobia and one is a personality disorder. So basically APD is when you have a certian personality that cuases you to avoid social situations and other symptoms as well such as feeling inferior to other, having a fear of rejection, which is not usually present in social phobia.

 * Social anxiety is not a phobia. It is an avoidance meachanism that is driven by an overly sensitive instict toward preservation.  Avoidant personality disorder is a characterological dysfunction.

 * The first is instinctual, the second psycho-social wired. Although the descriptions of many things in the psych pages here would appear to suggest similarity between two divergent diagnositic categories (because much of what is written is not done so by professionals), this being one of them, the two things are night and day. --DashaKat 19:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

 * "psycho-social wired" -- care to elaborate on this notion? You suggesting that one is more biologically rooted than the other?  AvPD looks like general social anxiety disorder to me with more pervasive and more distorted negative cognitions.  Can't a characterological dysfunction be such that it is geared toward an exaggerated preservation instinct?  How do you distinguish which it really is when they look the same? DivisionByZer0 06:39, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

 * The reason you don't see the distinction is, judging by your contributions, you're a mathemetician, not a social scientist. And no, that's not what I'm suggesting.  I'm saying the biological roots are different, the manner in which those biological roots inform development are, thus, different, and, although the behavior looks the same, the foundation for the behavior is different.

 * That should have read "psycho-socially wired". Characterological dysfunction that has its roots in social interaction (Paranoid PD, Borderline PD, etc.) is primarily a learned behavior.  It is a distortion of interior development that is informed by a biological predisposition to anxiety and/or depression.  This predisposition is magnified by the attitudinal profile that an individual develops based on experience, which, in turn, contribute to the development of the filters that we all use to color our perception.  In the case of someone with a personality disorder, you can think of him/her as someone with his/her filters permanently out of focus.

 * GAD or simple generalized anxiety has its roots in fight-or-flight. It is a hard-wired, instinctual, and primal reaction that has, itself, gotten distorted.  Again, the behavior looks the same, but it's the precursors and antecedents that cause the two things to be differentiated.

 * Also, you can't equate a personality disorder with a behavioral disorder. It's apples and oranges.  In this case, it's more like oranges and tangerines, becuase we are looking at two things that appear the same.  Think of it like American football versus Canadian football...the behaviors are the smae, but the rules differ enough that they are, ultimately, entirely different activities. --DashaKat 11:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Flattering, but unfourtunately I'm someone who just likes both math and social science, however more experience with the former. You seem to be knowledgable on this topic -- do you have any sources I could look at which address AvPD and how to treat it?  I'm trying to get a "correct" diagnosis for myself -- my psychiatrist insists that the differentiation between AvPD and SAD is mainly a matter of degree of impairment.  When I read the description of SAD and AvPD both seem to "fit" what I experience to some degree.  If you have some sources which you wouldn't mind sharing, my email is this username at hotmail.com. 68.37.138.139 18:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

 * OK...I'm starting this post with a DISCLAIMER, as I am always slamming people for keeping these forums about the article...but, you made a request that would leave me professionally remiss if I dismissed it. So, here are some references that may be helpful.  Some of them are going to seem off-base in terms of topic, but...trust me...

 * Abusive Relationships Workbook

 * A Therapist's Guide to Personality Disorders

 * Distancing: A Guide to Avoidance and Avoidant Personality Disorder

 * Avoidant Personality Disorder Workbook (Aaron Beck...as in THE Aaron Beck - great stuff)

 * Workbook: Mastery of Your Anxiety and Worry

 * [on the counter-Borderline.pdf|Perspectives on the counter-Borderline]

 * Co-dependent No More

 * Counter Dependence

 * Shadow Syndromes - great perspective on the mix/and match/not-quite-co-occurring nature of this stuff. --DashaKat 16:45, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Many thanks. I'm sharing your comments and sources with a social anxiety forum, in AvPD thread which has long since been idle.  Should be helpful to all those who are nonw popping up saying "wow, I never thought something could so accurately describe the way I feel".  Cheers. DivisionByZer0 05:32, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I can find the others but been unable to locate AvPD Workbook by Beck -- got an ISBN for it? 68.37.138.139 08:37, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Division, while im not speaking against you or anyone with this disorder, people who are reading this and saying "hey I have that" are usually going to just be really awkward people who want to self-diagnose themselves with a disorder to explain away their own ineptitude. Just pointing it out. Now watch somebody with self-diagnosed APD delete this because it makes them mad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.240.123 (talk) 20:37, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

 * 24.188.240.123, I'm responding as someone who is not self-diagnosed with this or any other pscyhological disorder (and does not even personally relate to Avoidant Personality Disorder for that matter). Really awkward people generally do have some form of psychological issue; social ineptitude usually does derive from a psychological issue.  The majority of self-diagnosers may be misguided, but psychological models of thinking can exist in many combinations and severities.  For example, while only a small segment of the population could be said to have narcissistic personality disorder, narcissistic thinking (that is, the thinking patterns associated with NPD) can occur in anyone.  So a person who wouldn't be diagnosed with Avoidant Personality Disorder might nonetheless recognize these common psychological constructions in themself (and hopefully learn to address it).  What's your self-diagnosed disorder, anyway, to explain why you're so spiteful? I'm sure you're exactly what the merely socially inept need to get back on track... 216.15.127.190 (talk) 12:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

It's actually quite simple. Avoidant Personality Disorder is severe Social Phobia, much like how Narcissistic Personality Disorder is severe Narcissism. Der unaussprechliche (talk) 07:26, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Not really. I have AvPD, but it would be a stretch to say I have Social Phobia. I have little problem with social interactions that are brief (e.g. meeting new people) or highly structured (e.g. the classic public speaking example). I suppose it is because I don't expect intense personal evaluation in those superficial situations. - 152.76.1.244 (talk) 03:34, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Also, if the populations overlap the concepts derive from different models/schools. FiachraByrne (talk) 03:44, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * exactly. the structuring really is a key element here - what the AvPD fears is the out of left field attack by someone skilled at engineering public humiliation 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:49E7:4428:F49B:8CCB (talk) 09:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

 * There is no real diagnostic difference between social anxiety or social phobia and "avoidant personality disorder". Like much of modern psychiatry it is an important-sounding re-framing of quite simple things. I'm sure this article is aiding lots of self-diagnosis, haha. 104.228.101.152 (talk) 01:56, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * social anxiety or social phobia can be late-onset afflictions specific to certain situations and triggers, whereas a PD permeates a psyche, as it were, stemming from event(s) earlier in life. that said, sure, there can be overlap 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:49E7:4428:F49B:8CCB (talk) 09:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Discussing citing format before providing the needed citation
It appears that the citations in the article are scholarly but not really very wikiupdated. So I propose that the format of citation in this article be converted to a more "linkful" one. I'm no expert on citation in wikipedia but I've seen other articles with external links which are more convenient to reference. However, I've just looked through the now recommended cite.php footnotes format extension (not the deprecated Footnote3 system), and I understand why there is an almost complete lack of external links cited and referenced. The system is quite a bit more intimidating, and the old Footnote3 format, which I was just getting the hang of, will someday soon be obsolete. So the author here chose to use an alternate method, which is acceptable according to one of the citing wikipages I've read. I propose that interested contributors discuss an appropriate re-citing to allow extensive external links. This could be either finding a willing cite.php adept to re-cite the present references, or one of the presently interested contributors changing over the present cites to Footnote3 so that it can be converted later, via a bot, also wielded by an adept. Interested parties please respond so we can all start thinking about this. Don't forget to use colons to indent your entries and please sign them so we all know who is saying what.

Now I want to add a citation that is marked "needed" in the article. By the way, this entry emphasises the above comments because some of the sources cited themselves offer a wealth of information as well as numerous corroborations and bibliographies, which enriches understanding. I had better create a new heading here so future editors can easily find this.Bearpa 18:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Entering needed citation
Found good article online with expansive documentation. This could cite to the end of the next sentence instead of where shown. I will try to cite in the APD article like the present author has, and enter the reference as shown in citing sources and templates:cite web. One problem is the length of the article on one text page, so in notes, I will give a location in the article. Might be helpful, might be overkill. Please offer suggestions.Bearpa 18:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, a couple of things came up for me during the edit:
 * there is no notes section to indicate the location of the specific passage in the cited article that supports the entry in wiki article. I will enter it here for any one who might like to refer to it: the first paragraph under the third heading (Treatment Provider Guidlines) in the second section (Treating the AvPD) of the article (link in references section of wiki article).
 * should we have a notes section? I noticed in the archives some comments added to another cited reference in the reference section (later removed for other reasons). That didn't seem so bad though - they were there with the source involved which connects the comments immediately. Anyway, thoughts?
 * Also, two new issues for me:
 * ABBREVIATION CORRECTION - I've done it myself. It's in the article intro. I'm becoming aware that APD is also the general abbreviation for Anti-social Personality Disorder and the clinical and academic sources seem to be using AvPD for Avoidant Personality Disorder. I think this is what should be used to avoid confusion.
 * I added a "citation needed" for the rest of the paragraph after my citation. I'm not sure, but this is almost OR insofar as, otherwise, an actual, reliable survey of websites would have to have been done, and rather thanspeaking for "the psychological community", this would have to become a verifiable fact. The conclusion, though, is probably obvious about the websites, since they repeat the treatment issue already referred to, though this seems somewhat redundant. A rewrite could reframe the thought, perhaps.
 * A greater issue though, perhaps, is the lack of complete attribution in the first two sections of the article. Does DSM-IV need to be cited if referred to in the article? What about the mnemonic? Certainly the first half of the Link with other disorders section is not cited. Probably deepening and broadening the entire article should be contemplated too (though I do appreciate how concise it is now). Anywho, more grist for the mill. Long-winded, I know. Apologies.Bearpa 01:12, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

To the "widow" unsigned post at the top of this page:
I wish to comment but there's a problem w/ your post that led me on a wild goose edit where I had to learn about reverts and undoing revert revisions (if that makes any sense at all). Anyway let me just copy an entry that was part of that ill-fated effort that might explain:

Sorry, I was not signed on when first appending the above unsigned signature (the posting was by Portillo on 30 September 2006). I'm getting an "editing a prior version" warning so that I'm worried I will unintentionally revert all later version (and entries?); if I do I will try to undo (not to sure of myself when it comes to the intricacies). If you'll notice, though, there are two equal sign (==) on only one side of the entry and there is no edit link (edit) in this post's section so there seems to have been a prob. w/the post, but I want to comment on this post. I hope I haven't flubbed things too much; not my intention. Live and learn. (Much chaos ensued when saved, but I'm OK now) What got me started here was that I really wanted to comment, to Portillo or any others, that this is a good question and I am curious as well, also about personality or anxiety disorders affecting those with long-term intrusive disease or medical conditions and/or long-term, chronic, or severe recurring pain. Anyone with experiences? Bearpa 04:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Now I am re-signing in realtime Bearpa 04:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no mention of ppl who feel socially inept because of physical reasons such as scars or deformities. What does this go under? Portillo 08:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Notable sufferers?
am i missing something? why is 'the white rabbit' listed?71.232.108.228 07:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Someone added this to the white rabbit page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=White_Rabbit&diff=prev&oldid=109766817 I'm not sure what their reasoning is, it should probably be removed.

All we have for notable sufferers right now is two fictional characters. Does anyone know of any "real life" notable sufferers that we could add? --DearPrudence 06:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Seeing as people with AvPD tend to avoid social interaction, are socially inhibited, et cetera, it seems unlikely that there will be many "well known" sufferers. --Mark PEA 14:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ted Kaczynski, perhaps? - Cyborg Ninja 11:10, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * No. Aikaterinē 17:08, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Joseph Cornell, reportedly. --80.235.111.150 (talk) 19:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Who is the second fictional character? I assume Shinji Ikari is one of them as its so obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.236.146 (talk) 14:44, 14 July 2008 (UTC) I assume the 2nd fictional character is Holden Caulfield, widely used as an example of alienation. NoraTes (talk) 18:01, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Holden most like had what used to be masochistic personality disorder, pathological lying, and passive-aggressive personality disorder. Peter Pan syndrome also seems plausible. I realize that most of these are not current diagnoses, but they do describe him quite well. MichaelExe (talk) 19:53, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree that Holden probably had AvPD. Fanny Price from Mansfield Park definitely did. Also Danielle Jones, Jean from American Psycho and probably Eve Harrington from All About Eve. --194.81.33.7 (talk) 19:39, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Tom Ripley seemed to suffer from the disorder in the Matt Damon version of The Talented Mr Ripley. In the books he's more narcissistic or psychopathic. --194.81.33.7 (talk) 13:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Toshiko Sato from Torchwood. Most characters in that have a personality disorder. --86.134.23.181 (talk) 17:29, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Kurt Wallander. --194.81.33.9 (talk) 18:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

"Creation of a fantasy world"
I know this now links to the page for "magical thinking", but could we elaborate a little more on it? I think that "creating a fantasy world" and "using magical thinking" are fairly different things. (Feel free to correct me if this isn't the case.) --DearPrudence 01:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

 * You are correct that they are different things and I removed the link to magical thinking. Magical thinking is associated with schizotypal personality disorder and involves the inability to distinguish cause and correlation.  There is no evidence avoidant types are especially prone to magical thinking; having a fantasy world does not mean you can't tell the fantasy from reality.  Even the link to fantasy world is not very helpful, since the page describes fantasy worlds in literature, not psychology -- but I left it in for now.

 * It should be removed altogether. In point of fact, the "creation of a fantasy world" is more properly referred to as a "fixed fantasy". --DashaKat 14:28, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Should we change it to say "Creation of a fixed fantasy", then? And should we add a quick explanation for that point? I feel like it's a bit unclear at the moment. --DearPrudence 18:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

 * IMHO, it should read "Attachment to fixed fantasy" or "Investment in fixed fantasy". I would be more than happy to write a stub defining fixed fantasy, and differentiating it from a delusional system to which we could link. Blessings. --DashaKat 15:00, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Either of those sound good, and it would be excellent to have a stub for 'fixed fantasy'. --DearPrudence 16:40, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Avoidance behavior
Should this link here? The Encyclopedia Britannica article on this is concerned mainly with behavior in nature, such as antipredator behaviors. Richard001 01:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

 * No. Avoidant behavior in nature is instinctive. In humans, it is both instinctive and premeditated.  However avoidant behavior, whether reactive or responsive, is a mechanism of preservation.  A personality disorder presumes an atypical interpretation of reality and is not a mechanism of preservation, but a disturbance of character. Good question, though. --DashaKat 12:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Is this even a real disorder then? If avoidance of the unknown is instinctive, wouldn't avoidance of social interaction be a natural attribute of somebody with a limited social world? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.240.123 (talk) 20:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Avoidance in and of itself is not inherently a disorder, to some extent it is natural and healthy. The difference between that and a disorder is that in a disorder like AvPD the person avoids things so much that their avoidant behavior makes their life more difficult, rather than help them. The avoidant behavior becomes maladaptive, not adaptive. Lorus (talk) 16:31, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Removed 'style' section
This is a page on Avoidant personality disorder. It is not a page on neurotic styles. Putting a differentiation section on this page creates an editorial situation where this type of section would then be required on every personality disorders page.

We would be better off creating a page on Shadow syndromes, or Neurotic styles, as opposed to addressing this here. --DashaKat 17:05, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

 * And a page on made up fantasy diseases used as a crutch to explain away social ineptitude —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.240.123 (talk) 20:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Right, and depression is a made-up disease to explain away being a bit down in the dumps. Could I ask you please, if you're going to continue attacking people with this disorder, do it somewhere more appropriate, this page is intended for comments on the article, not the subject itself. --Closedmouth (talk) 04:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Unsigned, why are you saying that about people who might recognize all the symptoms of AvPD in themselves,  and maybe feel the need to get treatment so they can get over it?  Usually people say things like what you said about something like Asperger's Syndrome, which has no known cure. (I'm not saying Asperger's is made up; I'm just saying that it (AS) is something that I've heard people being accused of saying they had AS when they were just a little socially inept or shy.)   If someone wanted to "explain away" social ineptitude, presumably without doing any work on themselves, wouldn't they say they had something incurable, because they might think that no one would wonder why they don't work on their social ineptitude. With something like AvPD and social anxiety disorder, if someone kept saying they couldn't do things because of it, eventually someone would call them on it and wonder why they didn't get treatment for their AvPD.  Most people would probably rather have friends and do well socially.   If they recognize that something like a personality disorder or an anxiety disorder is keeping them from this, shouldn't they get help for it rather than have people say they're making excuses for social ineptitude?  What do you propose they do about their social ineptitude then, if it's caused by excessive fear and/or hiding from others because of their misperceived ideas about themselves or others?  --Norah (talk) 10:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Comorbidities
what about eating disorders?

I think a list of comorbidities would be easier to quickly read than prose form. anyone else? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.43.212.236 (talk) 08:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Clarification
This sentence, in the first section, needs clarification: "Whether the feeling of rejection is due to the extreme interpersonal monitoring attributed to people with the disorder is still disputed." Does this mean that they pay too much attention to people around them, or that they are paid too much attention to? -Me, 5/7/08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.118.73.116 (talk) 09:49, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The former. --Closedmouth (talk) 12:45, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Fixed fantasies
"Investment in fixed fantasies" What does this mean? I read the article on fixed fantasies, but a few examples would help, I think.  Azure Fury  (talk | contribs) 08:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it kind of means daydreaming, but with recurring themes, like fantasizing that they are friends and can easily talk to people who in reality they have never spoken to before. --Mark PEA (talk) 22:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've found another example in Timothy_McVeigh. "He was picked on by bullies at school, and took refuge in a fantasy world in which he retaliated against them". The article also says that he was "known throughout his life as a loner", which to me implies that he was also avoidant. --Mark PEA (talk) 12:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting...thanks.  Azure Fury  (talk | contribs) 17:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Fixed Fantasys does not mean one daydreams alot, although this is common among Avoidants. What a fixed fantasy actually means is an almost unalterable belief about oneself.i.e. AvPD=Delusions of inferiority. NPD=Delusions of superiority ect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.247.12 (talk) 09:45, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

To those who worked on this page (I don't mean the talk page)
Thank You. 19:04, 27 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.16.145.131 (talk)

 * Your welcome. Portillo (talk) 21:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to say thank you, although I know it is out of place on this page (feel free to delete this entry). I never really knew I had AvPD until I read this and it hit me like a ton of bricks in the gut that it was like reading something written by someone who could see into my hidden soul. I'd just want the people who contributed to this page to know that this page really helped me to get help. Just knowing there was something to define the way I felt and that there were likely others like me too has made a big difference and just being able to point people to this page when I need to explain why I am the way I am (which I can't do very well on account of the AvPD) really helps too.

Just to make this a little bit on-topic, I'd like to say I think the article is perfect and I hope nobody changes it (at least not much) because I am sure it is helping a lot of other AvPD people understand their condition and be encouraged that other (non-AvPD) people are being helped to understand them also.

Thanks again, and again, feel free to delete this (but I hope it can stay up for a while just so other contributors can read it and know their efforts are very appreciated) 82.43.197.132 (talk) 21:31, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Links to AvPD chat rooms?
This page used to feature links to chat rooms for AvPD sufferers and no longer does. Is this some sort of policy decision? Anyway, the old chat room for avoidants seems to have closed down. To try and replace it an IRC channel for AvPD has been created, maybe it can be linked to from here. Its irc://irc.slackhost.net/avpd. Easiest way to get there is prolly to use Mibbit through this link http://www.mibbit.com/chat/?server=irc.slackhost.net&channel=%23avpd# —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.251.28.105 (talk) 08:59, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Distinguishing from depression
In schizoid personality disorder and paranoid personality disorder, we distinguish them from mood disorders. I went through a depression (of the melancholic subtype, I assume) last year, but some of my symptoms overlapped with this disorder, namely: Even though I had the required amount of symptoms, I doubt that I suffered from this personality disorder. My depression started after I had acted stubborn toward my parents, and the stress of schoolwork, topped by a failed relationship, procrastination and what sounds like obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, contributed to the anxiety, but my depression ended with the school year (after it was so unbearable that I told my parents, and went for one uncomfortable session with a psychologist). I also had most of the symptoms of dysthymia but they didn't last nearly long enough.
 * "Shows restraint initiating intimate relationships because of the fear of being ashamed, ridiculed, or rejected due to severe low self-worth", (I had just gone through a failed relationship a couple months before the depression, but I still couldn't let go, and still can't because we share(d) almost all of our classes)
 * "Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy", (although I was "shy" all of the time throughout my depression)
 * "Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others", and
 * "Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing".

SO (for all you tl;dr's), I'd like to know whether major depressive disorder (which also included low self-esteem in its description) should cancel out the diagnosis of avoidant personality disorder, as it does with schizoid and paranoid personality disorders, because they share symptoms (that mostly didn't persist longer than the depression, in my case). I was anxious all of the time, and even more so around people (although I still feel nervous when at the mall or during oral presentations, as I always have), but I met nearly all of the criteria for a major depressive episode. Should we leave a note about this? MichaelExe (talk) 15:58, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

BigTent Avoidant Group
I tried to sign up with this group the other day. I don't seem to fit the requirements, though. I asked on another avoidant forum whether anybody was ever able to get an account there, and most said that they tried but got rejected as I did. I don't think the group should be mentioned in the article. --Anonymous Avoidant, 3 August 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.150.68.76 (talk) 23:47, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * They might judge based on the severity of the disorder. Perhaps they only accept those comorbid with a type of depression? MichaelExe (talk) 23:09, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I had no problem signing up for the group about a month or so ago. Were you sure to follow all the instructions during sign up? They will reject you if you do not type in the reason you want to join the group. It is their way of trying to protect against spammers. The only thing I put was that I had been suffering from AvPD for so many years, and I was approved within a few hours. It is a legit site, and therefore there is no reason it shouldn't be mentioned in the article. Cokie500 (talk) 06:03, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I was in the BigTent Avoidant group. I e-mailed two moderators about people not being able to sign up. I never got an answer. A few weeks later I tried to sign in and found my account had been deleted. I don't think the group should be mentioned in the article either Another Anonymoue Avoidant, 6 September 2009

Famous people
Is there any famous people with this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omegakingboo (talk • contribs) 14:29, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably, but they likely wouldn't have opted for performance where they're under the scrutiny of others (such as acting, although being in a band might be okay, as long as they aren't the vocalist). I can't think of any famous people with it, though. MichaelExe (talk) 16:24, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Mark David Chapman perhaps?
 * Morrissey? From 'Ask': "Shyness is nice, and/Shyness can stop you/From doing all the things in life/You'd like to";
 * "How Soon is Now?": "I am the son/and the heir/of a shyness that is criminally vulgar/I am the son and heir/of nothing in particular
 * You shut your mouth/how can you say/I go about things the wrong way/I am human and I need to be loved/just like everybody else does
 * I am the son/and the heir/of a shyness that is criminally vulgar/I am the son and the heir/of nothing in particular
 * You shut your mouth/how can you say/I go about things the wrong way/I am human and I need to be loved/just like everybody else does
 * There's a club if you'd like to go/you could meet somebody who really loves you/so you go, and you stand on your own/and you leave on your own/and you go home, and you cry/and you want to die
 * When you say it's gonna happen "now"/well, when exactly do you mean?/see I've already waited too long/and all my hope is gone

You shut your mouth/how can you say/I go about things the wrong way/I am human and I need to be loved/just like everybody else does
 * There are very few people in the public eye who have AvPD, because avoidants are very introverted and anxious. Cluster C people don't want attention from lots of people and hence would not seek it out. They would not perform in bands of in front of an audience as entertainers in any capacity; they would be terrified in hat situation. Morrisey is introverted in comparison to most rock musicians, but he's a controversial character who certainly doesn't display AvPD. Avoidants are not confrontational, they are anxious loners who'd hate the negative attention from the authorities that shooting someone would cause, so Mark David Chapman doesn't have it. The vast majority of the personality disordered people whom are in the public eye are in Cluster B. Jim Michael (talk) 20:04, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * you'd be surprised how many university lecturers are AvPD... 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:49E7:4428:F49B:8CCB (talk) 09:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
 * If someone with AvPD is naturally bright, and is taught at school that the way to gain approval and to get on in life is to keep their head down, work hard and pass their exams, they may well just stay on the educational conveyor belt as long as they can, never daring to plunge off it into the "real world", passing through school, university and post-grad work, until they become a lecturer ... and only at that point appreciate that their chosen path involves "performing" in front of a crowd. Yeah, yeah, I know, WP:FORUM. GrindtXX (talk) 13:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Copyright problems with diagnostic criteria
The American Psychiatric Association has not released its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders into public domain, but claims copyright. The Wikimedia Foundation has received a letter of complaint (2010030910040817, for those with access) about the use of their diagnostic criteria in this and a number of other articles. Currently, this content is blanked pending investigation, which will last approximately one week. Please feel free to provide input at the copyright problems board listing during that time. Individuals with access to the books would be particularly welcome in helping to conduct the investigation. Assistance developing a plan to prevent misuse of the APA's material on Wikipedia projects would also be welcome. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:56, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

External Link - subjective account of AvPD on YouTube
Hi,

I created an external link section for this page and linked to a youtube clip of a subjective account of the disorder by a sufferer. The clip is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ7qYH4ud4U

I've two questions. 1) Is all youtube content to be considered under copyright?

2) Obviously external sources should be authorities on the subject. However, this is a link providing a subjective, first-person narrative of the disorder. It is not claiming a clinical perspective, but it should, I think, be considered authoritative as to the possible personal experience of the disorder. It's a very articulate and accurate account from the sufferer's perspective. Are all such sources barred from usage in wiki articles? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FiachraByrne (talk • contribs) 13:48, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

 * wikipedia never normally allows youtube as a source as it is not reliable, most videos on there are peoples own work. we have had revert any attempts to use it a source before and will continue to do so. Also youtube videos are copywrited, try uploading a video there with a Lady Gaga or Justin Timberlake song and you'll find your video muted or even removed by WMG faster then you can say rickroll. -- Lerd the nerd  wiki defender  09:17, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

 * This is from the policy statement of wikipedia on external links: "There is no blanket ban on linking to YouTube or other user-submitted video sites, as long as the links abide by the guidelines on this page (see Restrictions on linking and Links normally to be avoided). Many videos hosted on YouTube or similar sites do not meet the standards for inclusion in External links sections, and copyright is of particular concern. Many YouTube videos of newscasts, shows or other content of interest to Wikipedia visitors are copyright violations. Links should be evaluated for inclusion with due care on a case-by-case basis. Links to online videos should also identify the software necessary for readers to view the content. For example, all links to YouTube videos should, if applicable, indicate that Flash Video software or a web browser supporting H.264/MPEG-4 AVC is necessary to see the content." There is no blanket ban on the use of YouTube as an external link. I'm not talking about using it as a source. Not all youtube videos are under copyright and there is no way that this particular video is under copyright. It is not a commercial release and is no way equivalent to a Lady Gaga or Justin Timberlake tune which would operate under copyright for very obvious reasons. FiachraByrne (talk) 11:07, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

 * I've reposted the YouTube link. As you haven't replied here or at your Userpage I assume that there is no problem. Just to reiterate, this video does not infringe any 3rd party copyright in any way. Further, it provides a credible first-person account of the condition. This is by its nature a subjective account but it provides an insight into the condition that clinicians cannot provide. Any assessment as to this external link's "authority" in this context needs to evaluate the material (i.e. watch the clip and assess the quality of the statements made in that clip by the sufferer and not just reflexively delete on the basis that the link is to a YouTube clip). I think people who have received a diagnosis of AvPD will recognise something of themselves in this clip. Also, please respond here first before any attempt at summary deletion of the link.FiachraByrne (talk) 01:58, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Adding to Sign and Symptoms
I propose to add some more information of the disorder by adding some more details about the subject and those affected by it. Below is what i would like to add:

Avoidant personality disorder is more commonly found to be diagnosed in females than in males. Those with this disorder may often choose jobs of isolation so that they do not have to interact with the public regularly, do to their anxiety and fear of embarrassing themselves in front of others. Some afflicted by this disorder may fantasize about idealized, accepting, and affectionate relationships, do to their desire to belong. They often feel themselves unworthy of the relationships they desire so they shame themselves from ever attempting the relationship at all. Tncook10 (talk) 16:45, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

"Paroxysmic?"
this word appears in the table of subtypes as a characteristic of the conflicted avoidant type. The word links to an article about the sudden intensification of seizures and other neurological problems. It doesn't look relevant at all. Unless Millon was using the word metaphorically to mean that people suffering from this have sudden periods of feeling much worse about themselves? Lucy Kemnitzer (talk) 02:16, 7 July 2019 (UTC)Lucy Kemnitzer

"Avoidant individuals also avoid performing activities in public spaces for fear of embarrassing themselves in front of others."
This may not be quite accurate - a person with this disorder would never want to speak in front of a large group "as themselves" but be quite comfortable doing this "in their professional capacity" e.g. lecturer, chairperson, preacher, teacher, tour guide (and yes, despite appearances they may get gang pressed into any of these roles) where the emphasis is not on putting one's self forward, but ensuring that a message gets across... 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:49E7:4428:F49B:8CCB (talk) 09:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Avoidant personality disorder


text: User talk:81.158.42.48

title: User talk:81.158.42.48


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Evan McKinney

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. Paul August ☎ 03:16, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Evan McKinney
Non-famous vanity article. Google search for Evan McKinney + keyword techno gives just one return. andy 11:57, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete - When the sole content is a pair of self-taken photos, that pretty much screams vanity. --rob 13:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * delete vanity! Brighterorange 13:40, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete article and Delete image --Quasipalm 16:06, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn vanity. Dottore So 17:32, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Jachin 22:21, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Vanity - both 'before' and 'after'. Cnwb 00:24, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete as per WP:CSD A7. Hall Monitor 22:44, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete --Nv8200p 00:16, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Aetos

Aetos (Greek: Αετός, eagle) may refer to:

Places

 * Aetos, Aetolia-Acarnania, a village in Medeon municipality, Aetolia-Acarnania, Greece
 * Aetos, Drama, a former village in Drama regional unit, Greece
 * Aetos, Euboea, a village in Karystos municipality, Euboea, Greece
 * Aetos, Florina, a municipality in the Florina regional unit, Greece
 * Aetos, Messenia, a municipality in Messenia, Greece
 * Aetos, Thesprotia, a village in Filiates municipality, Thesprotia, Greece
 * Aytos, a municipality in Burgas Province, Bulgaria

Other uses

 * Aetos (motorcycle), a pre-World War I Italian bike
 * Aetos Security Management, a security company in Singapore
 * Aetos Skydra F.C., a football club
 * Greek ship Aetos
 * Aëtos, figure from Greek mythology

title: Aetos


text:
User:GinaDana

I joined Wikipedia on Aug. 20, 2005, when I was warmly welcomed by User:Sango123. On Wikipedia, I’m more of an editor than a writer, preferring to revert vandalism, keep an eye out for articles that need deletion, and copy edit rather than add copy myself.

This page has been vandalized 2 times.

title: User:GinaDana


text: User talk:80.47.34.160

title: User talk:80.47.34.160


text:
WebMoney

WebMoney is an online payment settlement system established in Russia in 1998. It is one of the largest electronic payments processors in Russia by number of users, with the company reporting 45 million registered accounts and 300,000 active weekly users in early 2020, and 100,000 stores accepting payments via the system. WebMoney is owned and operated by WM Transfer Ltd.

Service
WebMoney users' funds are stored in a "purse", which holds electronic money corresponding to an underlying asset, such as a currency. The underlying assets for WebMoney units are held by a global network of companies that act as guarantors for the payment system. Guarantors accept deposits in the underlying assets and issue the corresponding WebMoney units. WebMoney Transfer can be used for peer-to-peer payments, and includes an escrow system. It charges 0.8% of the transacted amount in fees, up to a maximum fee of €50.

WebMoney provides an application called WebMoney Keeper for using their payments services, for Microsoft Windows, Windows Phone, Android, iOS, and Blackberry. In 2006, security researcher Kris Kaspersky criticised WebMoney Keeper Classic for Windows, as it installed a low-level device driver that allowed direct access to the I/O ports and accessed the hard disk directly using ATA commands instead of via the operating system.

History
The company was founded in November 1998 in Russia as a money transfer system for United States dollars, in the wake of the 1998 Russian financial crisis that had led to increased US dollar use in Russia.

In November 2015, WebMoney Europe Ltd, based in Cambridge, United Kingdom, was granted an FCA licence to issue e-money within the European Economic Area. On 01-01-2021, the company terminated its agreements with all WebMoney EUR wallet holders as a result of Brexit.

In 2019, Sberbank said that WebMoney had joined its instant transfer ecosystem, allowing clients to make instant transfers from Sberbank cards to WebMoney purses and vice versa. The recipient’s phone number (which the card or purse is tied to) is needed to transfer funds.

In March 2019, the international settlement system WebMoney introduced a video identification system for customers.

The WebMoney Transfer system offered the solution of accepting payments via QR code for restaurants and shops. Customers need to scan a QR code displayed on the cash till screen and confirm the payment. In 2019, Burger King Russia has partnered with WebMoney Transfer to integrate QR code payments for customers.

On February 11, 2022, the Central Bank of Russian Federation revoked the license of KKB Bank JSC, the guarantor and the settlement bank for WebMoney's Russian ruble wallets, freezing WebMoney's funds on KKB's accounts.

In Ukraine
In June 2013, the Ukrainian government seized computer equipment from the Ukrainian guarantor and froze ₴60 million (US$7.5 million) of funds residing on guarantor's accounts in Ukraine, causing Ukrainian WebMoney transactions to be blocked. Officials of the Ministry of Revenues and Duties of Ukraine said that there were major irregularities in the operations of the company acting as the Ukrainian guarantor, and that the rules of the operation of the payment system were not agreed with the National Bank of Ukraine. The ministry described WebMoney as an "illegal system" that was suspected of being used for money laundering and tax evasion, and the central bank said that WebMoney did not have a licence to operate in Ukraine. WebMoney transactions resumed in Ukraine the following week.

In March 2015, the Ukrainian guarantor's bank accounts were released after a court ruling. Later that year, the National Bank of Ukraine and the State Savings Bank of Ukraine partnered with WebMoney.UA.

In May 2018, the National Bank of Ukraine has abolished the registration of the inner-state payment system WebMoney.UA (the subsidiary of 'Financing company ElMI', Kyiv) as it was put on the sanctions list of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine.

title: WebMoney


text:
Talk:Age of Mythology: The Titans

Expansion one third the length of the original?
I modified and moved "It is only a third of the length of the original" part to the scenario section. There is no point comparing the length of scenarios in the comparison of Games, because it's senseless to say AoM(TE) is one third the length of AoM. Titans Scenario is not the whole game. Greenleaf 11:59, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

but the game story is in fact one third of the original story, and its also just 1 third as good as the original. Its basicly an atlantean campaign, with a story that makes no sense whatsoever if you consider the story of Age of Mythology.

 * Story? Brian Jason Drake 06:10, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Campaigns in Ao* is, imho, supposed to give an idea of how to play each civilization. You must remember the gradual introduction and intros each time you change to a different civilization in AoM original. AoMTE had only one new civilization, whereas the original had 3, so there was no need to have a longer story. imo, it doesn't make sense, in the first place, to call a campaign a "game story" as is the case with, say, Half Life. Lots of things that are available in the "story" (Gargarensis, Gaia, Osiris' pyramid, Circe) are not available in a normal player vs player/computer game anyway, so "story" and the game is much seperated. Greenleaf 03:06, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Greenleaf, what do you have with Half-Life? You also mentioned it in the discussion of Age of Mythology when you were reprimanding me about cheats.ЄИЄЯפЇЄ 03:18, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Pack mules?
Who's accompanied by a pack mule? The article says each "citizen" - who's counted as a citizen? Brian Jason Drake 08:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The citizens are equivalent to villagers. Energie 23:25, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

 * yeah, but take 3 population units each. to compensate this, they are much more productive, so you need a lesser number of citizens than that of villagers. Greenleaf 02:55, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Are citizens new to this (I've only played the demo of the original)? Brian Jason Drake 11:23, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, citizens are Atlantean units, which makes them automatically new. Heck, the whole civilization is new.ЄИЄЯפЇЄ 06:35, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Heroes
The old heroes section was one line, and had virtually no information, so its been fixed G1ggy 05:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, just a question. I was playing in Single Player Random Map -- actually this has occoured a few times -- as the Atlanteans. One of my citizens, a time after I made them a Hero had an icon above their head like the ones that were above the Norsemen Clanleaders from the AOM campaign level Welcoming Committee. What does it mean? (BTW...They've never died so I don't know if it means the same thing as it did in the game. Ehheh.) some one used the spy god power on that citzen

Critisism of Campaign
I heared mutch critisism about the game in general in the part that, if historically accurate, atleants did not had the titans as gods. Also, in the fact that at the end of the campaign Atlantis raises from water, witch it can be seen mutch less historically accurate that in the original game. --Windymager 23:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Removed "Kalos Designs Studio" link
Irrelavant and/or advertising. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.158.221.203 (talk) 19:04, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:Age of Mythology - The Titans Liner.jpg
Image:Age of Mythology - The Titans Liner.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.Betacommand (talk • contribs • Bot) 02:42, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added a rationale. G1  gg  y  !  03:54, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Summon Nidhogg
It says in the campain story that folstag summons nidhogg however, this isn't always the case as the titan can be beaten without it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.235.142.234 (talk • contribs).
 * That's true. I've removed it.  Thanks for your help.  G1  gg  y  !  04:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Trim down and cleanup
Okay in accordance with the fact that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information (game guide) and VG Article Guidelines, I'm going to remove the following trivial list sections: Gods, Myth Units, Atlantean units, ships, seige weapons, buildings, and god powers. If I get a chance I will try to move them to Strategy Wiki.--Clyde (talk) 22:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I also added a reception section, expanded the lead, renamed a few headers, and added a few refernces.--Clyde (talk) 23:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Campaign
The "Training value of campaign" section seems rather opinionated. I know I'm being picky, but an information source should be anything but opinionated. 1/19/10 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.85.186.127 (talk) 09:20, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Age of Mythology: The Titans


text:
User:Cantthinkofagoodname/intro

Manchester United is an English football club, based at Old Trafford in Greater Manchester. The club is one of the most successful clubs in England, having won the Football League fifteen times and the European Cup twice, and has had the highest average attendance in English football for the majority of the past fifty seasons. The club was formed as Newton Heath (L & Y.R.) F.C. in 1878 as the works team of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway depot at Newton Heath. After nearing bankuptcy in 1902, the club was taken over by J.H. Davies who changed its name to Manchester United. United appointed Sir Matt Busby as manager after the Second World War, and his then-unheard-of policy of producing most of the players through the club's youth team brought great success, with the club winning the Football League in 1956 and 1957. This success was halted by the Munich air disaster of 1958, in which eight of the club's players died. It was thought that the club might fold, but Once Busby had recovered from his injuries he built another great team which went on to win the football league in 1965 and 1967, and became the first English winners of the European Cup in 1968.

The club did not see great success again until the 1990s and early 2000s, when Sir Alex Ferguson guided them to eight league championships in eleven years. In 1999, Manchester United became the first team to win the Football League, the F.A. Cup and the European Cup in the same season — a record that has still not been equalled. The club had been run as a Public Limited Company since 1991, and a takeover was a real possiblility. An attempted takeover by Rupert Murdoch had been blocked by the British Government in 1999, but in 2005 Malcolm Glazer completed a hostile takeover of the club, despite considerable protests from many of United's supporters.

On May 12, 2005, the United States businessman Malcolm Glazer acquired a controlling interest in the club in a takeover valuing it at approximately £800 million ($1.47 billion). On May 16, Glazer increased his share to the 75% necessary to delist the club from the Stock Exchange, taking it private again, and announced his intention to do so within 20 days. On 7 June he appointed his sons Joel, Avram, and Bryan as non-executive directors, at the same time that Sir Roy Gardner resigned the chairmanship, and two other non-executive directors resigned.

The club is also known as "Man United" or simply "United"; the nickname "Man U", considered derogatory by some fans, is frequently used by the press and fans of rival clubs. Manchester United is unusual in that it is not based in the City of Manchester itself, but in the borough of Trafford, between the cities of Salford and Manchester.

title: User:Cantthinkofagoodname/intro


text:
MAV

MAV may refer to:

 * Micro air vehicle, a type of remotely controlled unmanned aerial vehicle
 * Mojave Aerospace Ventures, the holding company for the SpaceShipOne space flight effort
 * Migraine-associated vertigo, vertigo or dizziness associated with migraine headache
 * Municipal Association of Victoria
 * MAV, stage name for Swedish country singer Anders Lundström
 * Magyar Államvasutak (MÁV), the Hungarian national railway company Hungarian State Railways
 * MAV, Minoan Air ICAO code
 * MAV or Mars Ascent Vehicle:
 * A component of the NASA-ESA Mars sample-return mission
 * The lander in the novel The Martian and 2015 film based on the book
 * M.A.V. (video game)

title: MAV


text:
Poranthera

Poranthera is a genus of flowering plant belonging to the family Phyllanthaceae first described as a genus in 1811.

It is one of eight genera in the tribe Poranthereae. Its closest relative is Pseudophyllanthus.

Poranthera is native to Australia and New Zealand. The name is derived from the Greek word, poros, "opening or pore", and the Latin word anthera, "anther".

Poranthera consists of monoecious or rarely, dioecious annual or perennial herbs. On the anthers, the line of dehiscence does not extend beyond the apex. It does not have the clearly round pores that define truly poricidal dehiscence.

Poranthera alpina has been placed in the monospecific genus Oreoporanthera by some authors, but in 2007, a molecular phylogenetic analysis of matK and ITS sequences showed this species to be embedded in Poranthera.

• # Poranthera alpina Cheeseman ex Hooker f. - S NZ
 * Species

• # Poranthera coerulea O.Schwarz - N WA, N NT

• # Poranthera corymbosa Brongn. - SE Qld, NSW, Vic

• # Poranthera dissecta Halford & R.J.F. Hend. - S WA

• # Poranthera drummondii Klotzsch - W + SW WA

• # Poranthera ericifolia Rudge - E NSW

• # Poranthera ericoides Klotzsch - SW WA

• # Poranthera florosa Halford & R.J.F.Hend. - S WA

• # Poranthera huegelii Klotzsch - S WA, SE SA

• # Poranthera leiosperma Halford & R.J.F.Hend. - WA, SA, NSW, Vic, NT

• # Poranthera microphylla Brongn. - Australia (all 7 parts), S NZ

• # Poranthera obovata Halford & R.J.F.Hend. - Qld, NSW

• # Poranthera oreophila Halford & R.J.F.Hend. - NSW, Vic

• # Poranthera petalifera (Orchard & J.B.Davies) Halford & R.J.F.Hend. - SW Tas

• # Poranthera triandra J.M.Black - WA, SA, Vic, NT

In 1830, Rafinesque used the name Poranthera to refer to a very different plant than that to which Rudge had already applied the name. Thus he created an illegitimate homonym. Species names coined using Rafinesque's homonym:
 * names in Poaceae
 * 1) Poranthera ciliata - Sorghastrum nutans
 * 2) Poranthera nutans - Sorghastrum nutans

title: Poranthera


text:
Chicoana

The Chicoana are a Diaguita tribe in the Salta Province, Argentina.

title: Chicoana


text:
Combination (disambiguation)

A combination is a mathematical collection of things in a context where their specific order is irrelevant.

Combination, combinations, or combo may also refer to:

 * Combination (chess), a relatively long sequence of chess moves, involving temporary loss of materials
 * Combination (jump), in horseback riding
 * Combination bus, a purpose-built truck with a "passenger container"
 * Combination company, in the late 19th century, a touring theater company that performed only one play
 * Combination Game, a style of association football based around teamwork and cooperation
 * Combination meal, typically includes food items and a beverage
 * Combination tone, a psychoacoustic phenomenon
 * Combinations (finance), the simultaneous buying or selling of one or more options that differ in one or more of the options' variables
 * Combinations (album), 2007 album by Eisley
 * Striking combination, several strikes in a row in combat sports
 * The Combination (film), 2009 Australian drama, directed by David Field
 * The Combination, an early English football league, 1888–89 and 1890–1911

title: Combination (disambiguation)


text:
Wiston, Pembrokeshire

Wiston (Cas-Wis) is a village, parish and community in Pembrokeshire, Wales, in the United Kingdom. It was once a marcher borough. George Owen, in 1603, described it as one of nine Pembrokeshire "boroughs in decay". It continued as a constituent parliamentary borough (voting as part of the borough seat of Pembroke) until the end of the 19th century.

It is overlooked by Wiston Castle.

The community of Wiston includes the village plus Clarbeston, Clarbeston Road and Walton East.

Roman presence
In 2003 a Roman road was reported to pass just north of village. The road originates from the major Roman town of Carmarthen, known as Moridunum during the Roman period. The destination of the road is uncertain and has only been traced beyond Wiston for a mile or two.

In 2013 it was confirmed that about 500m north-east of Wiston near Churchill Farm, is located the first ever Roman fort discovered in Pembrokeshire.

The site is shown on the Ordnance survey county series as a U-shaped quarry approximately 170m in length. This is a significant discovery that shows the Romans did indeed travel into Pembrokeshire. Dating appears to indicate that the fort is 1st century with possible 2nd century occupation. It remains to be seen whether there are further forts to the west, possibly at St Davids.

Medieval presence
The medieval presence at Wiston includes Wiston Castle and the church, St Mary Magdalene. There has been a church on this site at least since c1147. The current structure was founded by Wizo the Flemming (also responsible for the castle). The church is a typical Norman church with a square tower.

Governance
An electoral ward exists. This ward stretches beyond the confines of Wiston community. The total population of the ward at the 2011 election was 1,973.

title: Wiston, Pembrokeshire