text:
User talk:Tom/Archive1

Test
Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks.

Hi. I notice you are creating some articles. Welcome. You may want to wait until you have enough information, however, before you create articles you may want to have more than just a definition of the topic or a reference to a related item. Consider gathering more information about your subject before you create the article. Anti-Catholic has been tagged for speedy deletion. Is there more that you can add to the article? Is it possible that this information is covered in another article? - Tεx  τ  urε  02:34, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Welcome!
Hello Tomf, and welcome to Wikipedia. Please mark uploaded images as PD (public domain), Fair Use (most images taken from another website), or GFDL (original images of your that you are adding to Wikipedia).

Questions? Help || Village pump(everyone gathers here) || Admin links: Deletion || Undeletion

Helpful links: Editing || Writing a great article || Naming || Style Manual || Policies || Reassigning old edits.

I hope you enjoy being a Wikipedian! Drop us a note at New user log so we can meet you and help you get started. You can also leave me questions at my talk page. +sj+

Wikipedia conventions
Hello. In re offensive coordinator: please note that articles should begin with complete sentences rather than dictionary-style definitions, and the title word or title phrase should be highlighted at its first appearance like this. Also, it is usually better to write about the thing the term refers to, rather than about the term itself. Thus "A dog is an animal that barks" is better than "Dog is a term used to refer to an animal that barks. (Of course it is sometimes appropriate to write about the term, for example to explain that it has different meanings in different contexts, or it should not be confused with some other term, or it is considered offensive, etc.) Michael Hardy 23:55, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Image:Gibbs nascar.jpg
Could you please provide an image copyright tag for this image? Thanks!--Diberri | Talk 22:48, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

Ivan
I was wondering what was keeping everyone else from updating it :) -- Cyrius|✎ 00:07, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * On a related note, would you please include more informative image description pages? The one for Image:Ivan Sat Img Sept 7 2004.jpg isn't terribly informative, and doesn't even have a link to the image source. I tracked it back to the unskewed high resolution version of this image, and added a better description.

 * This message brought to you by the Association for the Advancement of Image Description Pages. -- Cyrius|✎ 06:35, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Harry
Hi, I've placed a WP:CP notice on Harry W. Nice, but I'm hoping that you can either reword the article as described there, or sort out the status. While I'm not familiar with the Maryland State Archives and their policies, I'm assuming that they're not covered by the U.S.A. "no federal copyright" rule. --Zigger 15:30, 2004 Oct 26 (UTC)

 * I cannot access the "Temp" page you moved the article to to change it.

 * The procedure on WP:CP uses the "Temp" page to start from scratch when permission is not granted. Getting permission to use the Archives material is a far better result!  Can you please get an email from them confirming that they release it either under GFDL or something less restrictive such as BSD-style or CC-by-Attribution, and hopefully covering more of their material?  The WP:CP page has links to sample requests for permission.  Please note that Wikipedia contributions are re-used, sometimes for commercial purposes.  --Zigger 00:04, 2004 Oct 28 (UTC)

 * I personally contacted them via email and informed them that the content would be used on Wikipedia. They replied: "If [the information] is on non-password protected pages [of the Maryland State Archives website] it may be used, as long as credit is given to the Maryland State Archives." tomf688 01:10, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

University of Maryland, College Park
Hey, I just saw you increase the logo size on my update. Since I was demoing this for coworkers, it was well-timed. Anyway, I went to UMCP as well. What programs are you in?--Howardjp 19:12, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm an undeclared freshman, taking core classes... basically. :) --tomf688 23:26, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Civil war map and green states
I see you created a map at American_Civil_War with much of the west coast shaded green, and information on border states omitted. A couple of us have discussed reverting it to a legitimate version on the talk page -- maybe you'd like to weigh in? Ben 18:59, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I created a new image and put it on the talk page (for general approval). --tomf688 19:41, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

 * Sweet! Ben 18:14, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
 * Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
 * Multi-Licensing Guide
 * Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the " " template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace " " with "  ". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

 * Sounds fine. Added the template to the bottom of my userpage. --tomf688 23:08, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

Sig
Please go to your preferences and hit the "raw signatures" checkbox. The "nickname" field doesn't work the way you thought it did, and the repair of a rendering bug in MediaWiki has caused your mistake to be visible. Checking "raw signatures" will make it work the way you thought it did. -- Cyrius|✎ 04:21, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * thanks :) --tomf688 (talk) 20:32, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

Cyclone Catarina
If you move a page, it's your job to fix double redirects and update links. Please do so. -- Cyrius|✎ 01:10, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Kinsey Image
Heyas, I visited the Alfred Kinsey website today and noticed that you uploaded the excellent photo of him taking notes during an interview, but was hoping that I might be able to get you to provide some copyright/source data on where you got the picture. You can find the image at Image:Akintervw.jpg. Any information you could provide would be great. Thanks. -SocratesJedi | Talk 01:02, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't remember posting the picture, but since it was early in my wikipedia experience, I would question its copyright validity. It seems it came from this website, so they might hold a copyright to it. --tomf688 (talk) 03:56, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)

Ownership of Washington Times
Tom, do you have a source for the oft-quoted claim that Moon owns the Washington Times? I keep hearing this, but I have also heard that he does not own it personally. Rather, he has the authority to appoint the publisher.

Kind of like the President of the United States doesn't "own" the FBI, but he can fire the Attorney General. Or the pope doesn't "own" St. Patrick's Cathedral but he can hire or fire the archbishop of NYC?

If you have any info, it would save me hours of googling! Thanks. -- Uncle Ed (talk) 20:48, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * I've interpretted it as common knowledge, and it says so on the main wikipedia article. However, I did google this myself and found his website.  I did a search using his website search engine and found several articles implying ownership of the Times.  Whether or not he currently owns it, he did found it, that is for certain.

 * Check out the search results below; maybe you can find a clearer answer:
 * --tomf688 (talk) 21:23, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * Founding of the Washington Times

 * Father inspired the founding of The Washington Times
 * Reverend Moon created The Washington Times.
 * I established the newspaper of righteousness ... the Washington Times.

 * His personally, or what?

 * (Sounds like a church resource as opposed to his personal property, like the pope saying Catholics ought to sell the Vatican):

 * Father believes that if necessary we should sell East Garden, Belvedere, the Washington Times or anything we have here in order to help South America.

 * Well, we all know he got the thing going; the question is does he own it personally? (Like, if he sold it, would the proceeds be personal income that he'd have to put on his income tax return? -- Uncle Ed (talk) 22:31, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * I really have no idea. This might be better discussed on the Washington Times talk page that has a larger audience. --tomf688 (talk) 23:00, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)

Roscoe B
Tom, As I am already and regretfully engaged in a revert war (over Operation Biting), I am withdrawing my from any further hurly-burly over the Roscoe B article. Another poster deleted my contribution and I suppose it is possible I am wrong.

But (and of course there is always a but), I am concerned over the article as a whole. It reads like a press release from the guy's office. The business with the Moon Coronation is not in dispute, and I question why it should be deleted.

Further the article does not discuss RB's defeat of the century-old Byron dynasty, Bartlett's attempt to groom his son as a successor, his legislative achievements (in his first term he sponsored a bill to ban the sale of Playboy on military bases), his run in with the Clinton White House over VIP tour tickets.

Each of these might be sort of trivial, but the in totality they say something about the man and his place in Maryland history.

In any case, I will leave this to your attention, frankly you are better informed and more interested in this than am I.

I would encourage you to continue to work on this one however.

warmest regards, Paul, in Saudi 16:42, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)]]

 * I agree the biography is very "official", most likely because it is just a beginning that I have tried to introduce to it (and other political articles I've started... see my main user page for more), and because I have incorporated the text from the bioguide and his own website, so of course it is likely very positive about him.

 * In terms of the Byron Dynasty, I have not heard about it, but it sounds interesting. That, unlike the Moon text, is much more appropriate for an encyclopedia article because it is noteworthy, not a seemingly random comment.

 * Please feel free to add it to the article, but just be aware that the Moon reference seemed quite obscure and inappropriate, which is why I initially reverted it. If you check out any "official" encyclopedia staffed by professional writers, you would never see such a reference because it is just not that significant compared with other events in his life.

 * I'm sorry if I came off a bit hostile in the reversion. I hope we can have better interaction in the future.

 * Btw: your signature seems a bit screwy, probably because you need to check the "raw" box underneath where you input your sig in Special:preferences. --tomf688 (talk) 19:11, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * The Byron Dynasty? Well Roscoe defeated Beverly Byron, who followed he husband Goodloe into office when he died while jogging on the C&O Canal. Goodloe followed his father and grandfather into Congress. In fact, there were Byrons in Congress from Maryland in the Civil War era, I presume from the same family. This would seem to make the Byrons one of the great American political families. IIRC Beverly went on to be an IRS Commissioner and served on the Base Closing and Realignment Commission. Paul, in Saudi 02:29, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Removal of images
I do agree that the unnecessary images need to be removed from the NFL pages (that which needn't be there, needn't be there..) Overall, which ones are you removing? (I'd rather ask here than on every talk page why they're missing..) Club logos? If so, I'd be glad to lend a hand to make the job twice as fast.. (PS. I'm sorry for making the PM subject sound so serious..) Bobo192 04:40, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm removing them from the player pages, since they really don't belong there. Many of the images were added by one user, so I'm just going from article to article based on which articles link to certain images/templates:  and

 * I'm working down from the top, so you can work from the bottom. --tomf688 (talk) 04:43, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

 * Doing so. Cool. Thanks. Bobo192 04:48, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Done, done, and done. Bobo192 04:54, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Stubbing
just thought that I'd mention that it's best to watch for vandalism on articles whose stubs you're sorting; Pat Corcoran had been vandalised, and it would have been easy for someone to have inadvertently reverted your edit when reverting the vandalism. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 10:20, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yea, didn't see it. I usually skim the articles but it was late last night when I was doing that, so I wasn't as "alert" as I would have been. :) -- tomf688 (talk) 15:16, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area
Ha, i was just look at a similar map my self from census, but that leads me to a question, i dont think the map it right. I don't get how they have Winchester in the metro area, when they group Berkley Jefferson, Mineral, Hampshire, and Washington counties with Winchester as a statisitical area? --Boothy443 | comhrÚ 03:29, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Upon further examination, it would appear that they exclude one of the West Virginia counties now included, and add another (examine the map, not sure of their names). This is on their website, so I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  Could it be that the current information in the article is inaccurate? -- tomf688 (talk) 03:43, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay, I checked this page on the census site, and it says this for the metropolitan area:

548        Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV Combined Statistical Area 548 12580     Baltimore-Towson, MD Metropolitan Statistical Area 548 19020     Culpeper, VA Micropolitan Statistical Area 548 30500     Lexington Park, MD Micropolitan Statistical Area 548 47900     Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV Metropolitan Statistical Area 548 49020     Winchester, VA-WV Metropolitan Statistical Area So whatever is located in those metro/micropolitan regions is what is located in this "combined statistical area." Here's a full list of micro/metropolitan areas: http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro-city/List1.txt -- tomf688 (talk) 04:12, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

KKT/Larson
How is "novice" a POV statement? You are either a political rookie or not!WillC
 * Seemed a bit excessive at the time, guess its not that bad. -- tomf688 (talk) 00:56, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

Category:Mayors of Salt Lake County, Utah
Hi, I noticed you changed the category this category is in from Category:Mayors of Utah to Category:Mayors of Utah cities. I am confused why you did that, since these people are mayors of a county, which is a larger political division than a city. I reverted the change, as well as others related to Utah until I can understand the reasoning. --[[User:JonMoore|—Jo nMo ore  20:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)]] 20:27, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I was unaware that this term was used outside of cities, and the term "Mayors of [State]" is quite confusing to me and a few others I asked as it would imply that this person serves in the "Mayor" position for the entire state. If you check other categories of the same nature, you can see that I did a large move of names from Category:Mayors of [State] to Category:Mayors of [State] cities.

 * I did not notice nor was I aware that counties had mayors, since the term, in my experience, has only been used in cities. Not quite sure what to make of it now. -- tomf688 (talk) 20:34, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * "Mayors of state" wasn't confusing to me, as mayors are *always* the political head of a locality, usually a city. This renaming was a worthless change, in my view.  But, I also won't fight it. —  Stevie is the man!  Talk 20:37, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I tried to look at it from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the term, namely those from countries that don't use the term "mayor". If someone sees that a person is a "Mayor of California", for example, they would likely be inclined to believe that they have served in the Mayor position for the whole state, like Governors of California or Attorney General of California, for example.

 * As for the county/city thing, I believe the previous category was too ambiguous, now that I think about it further. If anything, it should be renamed to "City Executives of the United States", etc, to serve ALL city leaders, and for counties a "County Executives of the United States", etc, category for ALL county leaders. -- tomf688 (talk) 20:46, Apr 15, 2005 (UTC)

 * Most counties have councils, a few counties have mayors or something similar, Utah is unique in this respect. Salt Lake County is probably one of the few counties that uses the term "mayor" in this sense, though there may be a few others. Your above suggestion might be a good compromise. --[[User:JonMoore|—Jo nMo ore  20:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)]] 10:57, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm trying to ponder a good word choice in this case. County Executive is what many county leaders are called, so it might be a bit biased in their favor, though it does indicated that these people, be they mayors, commissioners, etc, are indeed the "executive" of their county.  The same goes for cities.  Perhaps Category:Utah city leaders and Category:Utah county leaders would be a good choice as well.

 * The advantage here is that this categorization is in the early stages, so it isn't very difficult to change these categories manually while there are still only a relatvely few people in them. -- tomf688 (talk) 14:55, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

Further thoughts: How does Category:County leaders in the United States and Category:City leaders in the United States (replace "the United States" for each state subcategory) sound? Each one would be much more flexible, IMO. -- tomf688 (talk) 15:12, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

Another thought: You may want to have all the old-named categories that you're leaving as orphans be speedy-deleted. Just place a on each category page. This will alert admins to delete them out of the system. Thanks. — Stevie is the man!  Talk 11:29, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Sure thing. -- tomf688 (talk) 14:07, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Just a few thoughts:

 * The "executive" of a city or county is pretty unambiguous. However, I could see, for example, the Rev. Al Sharpton, who has never held office in his life, referred to as a "leader" of New York City.
 * If "MyState city executives" isn't liked, how about "heads of MyState city government"?
 * You could also replace city and county with "municipal"

— DLJessup 18:52, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I made it Category:Leaders of cities in the United States and Category:Leaders of counties in the United States -- tomf688 (talk) 19:55, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Help with signature
My signature looks like --DuKot 05:59, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

And your signature looks like

tomf688 (talk) 00:06, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

How did you customize your signature? Is there anywhere in Wikipedia where you can set the signature. Thanks --DuKot 05:59, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Yep. Go to Special:Preferences, "User Data", and fill in (using HTML) what you want your sig to look like in the "Nickname" box.  Also, be sure to check the box "Raw Signatures". -- tomf688 (talk) 14:18, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

To be determined
The "To be determined" with the subnote "as of april 12, 2005" for each current U.S. Supreme Court Justice is unnecessary and excessive. Unless you are willing to update that notice daily, it serves absolutely no purpose, and the successor does not have "to be determined" because the person is still serving in their position.

I'll be reverting it back to incumbent unless you can provide me some insight as to why this is necessary... --tomf688(talk) 02:03, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC) (copied from User talk:DLJessup)

 * Let me go through this in order.

 * First of all, I am using the as of mechanism because a current Supreme Court justice isn't going to a current Supreme Court justice forever. (Heck, the smart money says Rehnquist won't be a current Supreme Court justice in six months.)  Wikipedia discourages the use of statements that date quickly.

 * Second, I don't see why I have to update that notice daily. As far as I'm concerned, that notice can stay fixed at a given date for a year at a time, which is the granularity of the as of mechanism.  I like the additional precision, and it gives the user some idea of how old that statement is.  However, if it really annoys you, feel free to eliminate the "April 12" portion of the footnote.

 * Third, I detest the use of "incumbent" in the successor column. If I see that Rehnquist's successor is "incumbent", it appears that Rehnquist is not the current justice, but the predecessor to some unnamed current justice.  I prefer "unknown" or "to be determined".

 * Fourth, a current justice's successor does have to be determined, just not now. Rehnquist will almost certainly have a successor — if he doesn't, then we will fill in the successor with "none" when the time comes — and we don't know who that is now; hence, that person is still "to be determined".

 * — DLJessup 03:05, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * ''continued on user talk:DLJessup

High and Low
Sorry, it took awhile to respond...

I hear what you're saying, but I think that with the proper links to other pages, such as adiabatic, although the article is maybe a bit technical, it can expand and inform beyond a laypersons current knowledge. You may have a point, and I will reconsider what I wrote.

Roodog2k 20:04, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * A while? Only a month... ;) -- tomf688 (talk) 21:13, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Beltway Sniper
I just wanted to compliment your work in creating the map for this article. Yours in Richmond, Mark. Vaoverland 06:05, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :) -- tomf688 (talk) 22:26, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

Season Statistics
You told me that it was hard to find reliable casualty and damage statistics for the hurricane seasons from 1995-2002 to put in the new infobox. Not true: I have your figures right here, straight from the NHC.

 * 1995-115 dead, $7.227 billion in damage
 * 1996-179 dead, $3.6 billion in damage
 * 1997-11 dead, $100 million in damage
 * 1998-18,907 dead, $12.249 billion in damage (thanks to the deadliest hurricane in 200 years)
 * 1999-88 dead, $5.862 billion in damage
 * 2000-57 dead, $930 million in damage
 * 2001-105 dead, $2.772 billion in damage
 * 2002-23 dead, $1.21 billion in damage

-E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast (Squawk Box)  2 May, 2005

 * Oh cool, could you link me to where you found that? Thanks. -- tomf688 (talk) 00:41, May 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * BTW: are those numbers international or just the U.S.? -- tomf688 (talk) 00:42, May 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * N/m; I doubt 18000 people died in the US for 1998. -- tomf688 (talk) 00:43, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

You're right, they didn't die in the US. Hurricane Mitch stalled as a category 5 off Honduras. 9,086 people were confirmed dead and as many (9191) were listed as missing and this number has not been revised. These numbers are international figures (1996 damage estimate may be higher because there were a few storms for which damage figures were not listed). It is impossible to give an exact figure but these are pretty darn close. These come from the National Hurricane Center's Tropical Cyclone Reports, which they publish after each season. For each storm, there is a whole section on casualty and damage statistics.
 * here's the link

-E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast Squawk Box 3 May 2005

 * Thanks. BTW: you dont have to manually add the date and your talk page link, etc; you can just hit type in ~ and it will insert a signature that you can customize in your preferences.  In your case, you would want to type E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box in the signature box and check the "raw" box underneath it. -- tomf688 (talk) 21:50, May 3, 2005 (UTC)

Oh. Thanks. That saves me a lot of trouble. By the way, I'm a hurricane enthusiast. It's what I do. If you have a question involving hurricanes, I usually know the answer. And if I don't know the answer, I probably know where to find it. I'd love to help with statistics and records and set the facts straight. This will be the last time I manually type in my signature.

-E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast (Squawk Box)  14 May 2005

Hey, Tom. The Hurricane Center has some black-and-white track maps that go back all the way to 1921. You could use those to standardize the infobox for all seasons.

E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 14:09, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yea I noticed those, but its a lot of work to put maps up. Thanks for the note, though.  :) -- tomf688 (talk) 14:13, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

I'd help, but I can't get the picture to show up. Everytime I've tried it didn't work. Perhaps some of the other hurricane junkies could help.

E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 21:30, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

 * They seem to load for me, but unfortunately they are a bit small, so you can't read the text. It's better than nothing I suppose. -- tomf688 (talk) 00:53, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

As long as you can see the tracks ok, I think it will be fine. I don't see why it's not a good idea. I could provide the casualty and damage info, and you could set up the infobox.

E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 21:53, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Governor of Maryland

 * I apologize for not leaving a note to explain my action (that's an area I need to work on). I split List of Governors of Maryland from Governor of Maryland because I intended to significantly expand the article on the office.  (I have been working slowly on creating and improving articles on the Government of Maryland, and on the state in general.) You'll see that Governor of Maryland is now much longer (and, I hope, better--though still not excellent).  I think that it now stands on it's own without tacking on the list, which matches up nicely with the lists that all of the other states have.  I think that the list and article on the office ought to remain separate now.  By contrast, I agree with combining the list and the article on Lt. Governor of Maryland, since both of them are so much shorter. I hope that this sufficiently explains my action and that you will agree with it.  if not, please let me know and I'm sure we can find a way to work it out and to improve the article(s) further. Jacob1207 04:36, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

History of Maryland
I have just started the History of Maryland article (largely from material taken from other articles). Since you like both History and Maryland, I thought you might be interested in helping out with the article. It's definitely too big a job for one person if said one person is me. I've you've got the time and inclination, check it out! Jacob1207 23:43, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you, Tomf688, for cleaning up my talk page. I didn't even know there was so much duplication. Thanks ! -- PFHLai 21:04, 2005 May 23 (UTC)
 * I thought it seemed a little long. ;) -- tomf688 (talk) 21:06, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

Leader in Infobox
I am going to remove your addation of leader from the county infobox. I left it out for thr reason that many counties in the US do not have an established leadership position within their goverment structure, and that the leader position only rellay applies to the those the mainly have executive/council for would only realy be included in the leader situation. --Boothy443 | comhrÚ 20:39, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * fair 'nuff -- tomf688 (talk) 21:06, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Soccerballplain.gif
Can you confirm the source on this image? Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 09:35, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Someone holds the copyright to the traditional soccer ball design? -- tomf688 (talk) 22:05, May 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * No, but they hold the copyright to that image of a soccerball. I doubt anymore is going to sue us over it, but it is a non-sourced image. Burgundavia (✈ take a flight?) 06:12, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

History of MD, pt II
Thanks! I think that History of Maryland is coming together fairly well. There's just the 20th century to do now and then a couple holes to go back and patch. (I'm saving the intro section for last). I think that we can get this up to featured article quality, in maybe another week or so. Oh, and I've taken care of those many spelling errors, lol. Jacob1207 00:33, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There are over 600 featured articles presently (See WP:FA), and not all of them have been featured on the main page. Being a "Featured Article" means that an article is really good and has been vetted by others. They just pick one featured article each day to show on the main page. But I agree, they definitely wouldn't put this on the main page for a while. I think it'd be cool if it is chosen for March 25th (date first colonists landed) or April 28th (date Maryland ratified the constitution) next year. Of course, there is more work yet to be done before these things can come to pass. Jacob1207 01:06, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Assistance with Wiki Procedures
For the life of me, I can not figure out how to properly add a category for deletion. The directions simply say place at the top under the date. When I do that and hit page preview, nothing happens. Thanks for the help. --Noitall 03:52, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Question and Comment: Q: How did that other editor know immediately that I added the new category?: I was not editing an article he had done, as far as I know (maybe I did). C: Did you read the history section I wrote on Cardin? I have been waiting to write that for a long time. I have nothing against people having a huge family advantage in politics (e.g., Bush, Taft), but it also ought to be written about and publicly known. Cardin's is a fine political history, but the effortless ease that he entered politics is far different from most other candidates. --Noitall 16:34, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

lots of edits, not an admin
Hi - I made a list of users who've been around long enough to have made lots of edits but aren't admins. If you're at all interested in becoming an admin, can you please add an '*' immediately before your name in this list? I've suggested folks nominating someone might want to puruse this list, although there is certainly no guarantee anyone will ever look at it. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 17:39, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

Mayors of Nashville
Thanks for cleaning up the succession boxes for the Mayors of Nashville. I'm afraid you listed the wrong years for most of them though. You may want to go back through and correct any that haven't been corrected yet. Thanks. Kaldari 30 June 2005 19:59 (UTC)
 * Actually, only 2 of them were wrong. They just happened to be the first 2 I checked :) Both are fixed now. Kaldari 30 June 2005 19:59 (UTC)

Template:Steven Spielberg's films
As the result of a dispute over its previous TFD, the template showing Spielberg's films has been folded into a discussion of similar templates and renominated for deletion. I am contacting everyone who voted on the original TFD so that they will have another chance to make sure their opinion is heard.

The new vote is here.

Dragons flight 01:36, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

politician box
Nice box. I think the most recent job should be up top, so that it reads in reverse order. That way the current job will be beneath the picture. What say you? --Noitall 14:19, July 22, 2005 (UTC)

Richmond Times-Dispatch Article
"Tomf,"

My name is Jeff Kelley, and I'm a reporter at the Times-Dispatch in Richmond. I'm purusing a story on some Wiki-writers that write about Richmond and Virginia-related topics. If you can email me at jkelley@timesdispatch.com, or phone at 804-649-6348, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks, Jeff Kelley Richmond Times-Dispatch

 * I can say that I knew Tomf before he became famous :) --Noitall 03:31, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

 * Just call me Tom. ;) -- tomf688  16:10, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

Images
Any possibility you could tag these images:

thanks --Tagishsimon (talk)
 * Image:Governor austin crothers of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor edwin warfield of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor elihu emory jackson of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor emerson harrington of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor frank brown of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor harry nice of maryland.gif
 * Image:Governor henry lloyd of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor herbet oconor of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor John Hindmarsh.jpg
 * Image:Governor john lee carroll of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor lloyd lowndes of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor parris glendening of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor phillips goldborough of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor robert mclane of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor thomas swann of maryland.jpg
 * Image:Governor william t hamilton of maryland.jpg

 * Tagged most of them as . -- tomf688  14:30, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * Great pics. Question1: how could these be copyrighted since they are old, really old? Question 2:If someone has a password to get into the archives, should it matter for copyrighting, since it is age that is one of the determinative factors?  Good find, anyhow.  --Noitall 14:35, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * Re: Question 1: Here is a useful checklist for determining whether something is in the PD:

 * 1) Everything published in the United States before 1923 is in the public domain.
 * 2) Works published 1923-1963 in the United States whose copyright was not renewed are in the public domain.
 * 3) Foreign works published before 1909 are in the public domain.
 * 4) Foreign works published 1909-1923 with copyright notices are in the public domain.
 * 5) Works created by a U.S. federal government officer or employee as part of the person's official duties are public domain. This would include items published by the U.S. Government Printing Office; IRS publications; supreme court decisions; official speeches, letters and documents by the President among many other items.

 * However, since a lot of images are reproductions or were created well after 1923 (even images of governors from the 17th century, for example), they likely cannot be placed into the public domain or used without the author's consent. Thus, I emailed the Maryland Archives people a while ago (scroll up on this talk page to the entry about "Harry"), and they said that images and materials on the non-password protected sections of the website are copyrighted and are free to be reused as long as credit was given to the archives.

 * Re: Question 2: The password protected sections have a lot of good information in them, but are protected to try to reduce information being taken and reprinted without permission. You can get access by emailing the people at the archives and they will give you the username and password to get into the protected areas.  Materials older than 1923 on their website, even if it is in the passworded section, cannot be copyrighted by the archives.

 * Some other good sites: Just in case you are curious, the Library of Congress has a prints and photographs division which has a ton of photographs online (mostly older ones, but still really useful). It's located here: http://www.loc.gov/rr/print/catalog.html  Furthermore, most U.S. Gov websites have good photo libraries (White House Website, DOD website, etc). -- tomf688  15:00, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

 * Very good reference. I am storing this conversation on a Public Records page of mine.  --Noitall 14:52, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Please Check the Roscoe Bartlett Page
Did he really recently host a meeting about Martians causing the drought? I think not, but then again the guy is goofy so whose to say? Also, it is Terrapin you must fear, not a turtle. Regards. Paul, in Saudi 03:24, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you Tom. The fellow is out of control (He deletes warnings off his Talk page, BTW). You back at UMCP now? Paul, in Saudi 04:29, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Yea he frustrates me at times. Anyways, I'll be back there in three weeks (and btw, it is "fear the turtle"; I've only been there one year, but that's something I'm sure of ;) ). -- tomf688  11:16, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Idea for Infobox Hurricane
I just had a lightbulb come to life: I think it would be interesting if we added an entry on the infobox for the strongest storm of the season. I'll use 1995 as an example: ''Pressure: Opal-919 mb (27.13 inches)

Wind Speed : Opal-130 knots (149 mph) What do you think?

By the way, you might want to archive some of your talk page, it's getting kind of long (41 kilobytes).

E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 00:11, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I will use the same format I used in the example I gave you.

E. Brown, Hurricane enthusiast - Squawk Box 00:22, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Re: Politician Infobox
I've always felt it lacked in some respects, such as a list of prior and following offices held, amongst other things. If your new idea would apply to all politicians including senators, why not alter Infobox Senator then rename it to Infobox Politician, that way it'd save quite a bit of tedious wikiwork. Just contact an admin; you have my full support in the change. Shem(talk) 01:42, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Tom/Archive1


text:
Antal Bánhidi

Antal Bánhidi (23 December 1903 – 18 March 1994) was a Hungarian aviator.

Antal Bánhidi was born in Szatmárnémeti, then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. In 1920, he fled Romania by swimming across the Szamos river, and arrived in Hungary. He attended the Technical University of Budapest, where he assisted in establishing EMESE, the university's flight club. His piloting and engineering talent were recognized and Árpád Lampich taught him how to design airplanes.

In 1929, Bánhidi flew a Lampich L-2 Róma ultralight plane on a 5,000 kilometer journey to Sweden and back for the annual world meeting of university aviators. The flight included 150 km legs over sea, the plane's 18 hp 3-cylinder radial engine lacking the usual redundant set of spark magnets.

In 1930, Antal Bánhidi designed the Bánhidi Gerle, a light, universal, two-seater biplane, which was powered by a 100 hp 5-cylinder Genet-Major radial engine. The plane was suitable for flight schools, light aerobatics, air touring and sailplane towing. About 15 Gerle aircraft were built in Hungary before the outbreak of World War II.

In 1931, Bánhidi was hired as Chief Technical Advisor for the successful USA - Hungary transatlantic flight of György Endresz and Sándor Magyar. He chose and prepared a modern Lockheed Sirius 8A plane named "Justice for Hungary" for the voyage.

During February and March 1933, Bánhidi and floatplane pilot Tibor Bisits became the first aviators to complete a roundtrip along the Mediterranean Sea. Flying "Gerle No. 13", it took 100.5 hours of flight time to complete the 12,500 kilometer journey. Due to sour economic effects of the Great Depression, the expedition was only made possible by the offer of free fuel from Shell and the hospitality of Italians in North Africa. Bánhidi's Gerle was filmed by famous desert aviator László Almásy while circling the Great Pyramids without permission. On his return, Bánhidi wrote and published a book to document the journey.

In the autumn of 1933, Bánhidi made a one-man flight in "Gerle No. 13" from Debrecen to Finland, Sweden and London, aiming to set a touring record while taking advantage of an offer to have the plane's Genet-Major engine overhauled for free in Coventry. He was able to courier a state medal to Lord Rothermere, a sponsor of the 1931 ocean flight, and then flew to Debrecen non-stop. In 1937 Antal Bánhidi was invited for a two-month South American expedition, where he flew 15,000 kilometers over uncharted Amazonas territory, documented in another book.

On June 26, 1941, Antal Bánhidi, serving as a national guard reservist pilot at the time, became one of the few eyewitnesses to the mysterious bombing of Kassa. His Fiat CR-42 biplane fighter was too slow to intercept enemy medium bombers, and he was unable to conclusively identify the three attackers from the distance of one kilometer. Blame for the aerial bombing attack was laid on the Soviet Union, and the next day Hungary joined Nazi Germany.

After World War II, the USSR banned Hungary from building powered aircraft, thus the ageing Antal Bánhidi was put aside, working for decades as a blueprints' corrector for ground vehicle designs. After the fall of communism, he was recognized and honored for his achievements by the Hungarian government.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Antal Bánhidi


text:
Sally E. Pingree

Sally Engelhard Pingree is an American philanthropist and a daughter of the industrialist Charles W. Engelhard Jr. and his wife, Jane (the former Marie Annette Reiss Mannheimer). Pingree is a sister-in-law of fashion designer Oscar de la Renta.

She is a trustee of the Charles Engelhard Foundation and is known for her contributions to progressive environmental, social, and educational causes. She has also been a major political donor to Democratic Party causes, including that of her former sister-in-law Chellie Pingree.

Pingree serves on boards at Boston College, the Carter Center, National Geographic Society, and St. Andrew's School. She is a graduate of Trinity College. She has two children and lives in Washington, D.C.

Pingree is divorced from Sumner Pingree III, whom she married in 1978.

title: Sally E. Pingree


text:
Talk:IB Group 6 subjects

Cleanup
This article should look like the other IB Group articles, such as IB Group 5 subjects. -Satori 19:17, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I have added the IB box, cleaned up the article, removed the cleanup box, and labeled the article as a school-related stub. Xeon 06:11, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Can you please elaborate on the final sentence in the IB Theatre section? Were said results from a specific study, and if so, could you please post a link to the study? I am a sophomore in the IB programme, and, at least at our school, the common census is that history is the most difficult course with theatre towards the bottom of the list. Gopherdabills 23:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I have moved that sentence up to beneath the introduction. I think it was more of an after thought than a comment on IB Theatre Studies. Does this make more sense? --Spaztic ming 02:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

The lowest grade? really? -ChongLi 13:43, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Needs references
This article contains no references at all. At least a link to the IBO would be nice, and statements like IB Music is one of the less common IB subjects. Compared to other IB subjects, few schools offer it, and oftentimes, few students are willing to take it. should be supplied with proof. Allispaul 13:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm in the process of trying to standardize the IB Subject Group pages, at least as much as possible. That should--I hope!--make navigation of each article fairly simple.  I'm also trying to get citations and references on each of these pages and have included new sections for Footnotes and References.  I would recommend that, insofar as it is possible, we try to use the same citation/reference format throughout these articles.  I offer up the format I used at IB_Group_5_subjects, since I thought it was fairly simple to use.  This way we could also copy and paste some of the references, like the Handbook for Procedures, for example. Regards, CinchBug | Talk 18:35, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on IB Group 6 subjects. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100726105146/http://www.pamojaeducation.com/courses to http://www.pamojaeducation.com/courses

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 01:32, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:IB Group 6 subjects


text:
User:Charles Matthews/James

John Allegro - Jay Allen - Eric Ambler - Hedli Anderson - Antonio Baldini - Baretti - William Warren Bartley - Pamela Berry - Clementerè Bora - Borkenau - Christopher Brennan - Graham Burns - Vincenzo Cardarelli - Carrucci - Dino Campana - Emilio Cecchi - Gianfranco Contini - R. H. S. Crossman - Santore Debenedetto - Engelmann - Ludwig von Ficker - Gamarnik - Christian Gauss - Hugh Greene - Harold Hobson - John Hopkins - Alfred A. Knopf - Louis Kronenberger - A. J. Liebling - Roberto Longhi - Dwight Macdonald - Simon Martini - F. O. Mattheissen - T. S. Matthews - Ian McQueen - Frank McShane - Christopher Morley - Henri Murger - Benedict Nightingale - Pierre Nordon - Philip Oakes - Sidney Paget - James Robert Parish - Ramón Menéndez Pidal - Richard Poirier - Sydney Roberts - Umberto Saba - Nino Savarese - Scrypnik - N. F. Simpson - Kenneth Slessor - Evelyn Sharp - Georgio Solmi - Murray Sperber - Vincent Starrelt - G. L. Steer - Tomsky - Georgio Vigolo - Denton Welch - Tuesday Weld - George Weidenfeld - Elinor Wylie - [[

title: User:Charles Matthews/James


text:
User talk:Tom/Archive2

trying again
I have tried editing that article again. differently. I did read your response, but when i went looking I've found that not only is it not standard to list family in that manner, but in a survey of about 30 biography pages, I found that not a single one did. I don't doubt that some do ( one that didn't, that i checked was her father's, which should mention her I think. But that example demonstrates why that information didn't belong: Townsend should be mentioned, the man's daughter became well known right? But as someone else said, they were moving "the unimportant family" or something like that to the bottom of the page. when I came looking for information on this person, the first thing I thought was "wow, that's creepy." I assumed you had added that, but now I can see someone else did. But i think you'd agree it does not fit an encyclopedia to start looking like a royalty-worshipping site?

Vfd
Hey if you're bored, toss a few coins in this fountain: Votes for deletion/WikiProject Wikipedians for Decency --MONGO 10:55, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * Saw that...good argument...Geez, the thing is just getting started, it would probably moderate as it got going...I'm not a proponent of tagging "questionable" images et al with some label anyway...thinking about eliminating that. Thanks for the imput.--MONGO 14:46, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

U.S. Senator of State
My pleasure. It's been a long time coming. I'll probably start with and keep up with Western states, New England states and Upper Midwest states, unless you object. Thanks for starting it. Sorry I can't keep up with alphabetical order--I just get bored. :) Thanks to you for getting it going. jengod 06:43, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Nixon portrait
Please see my post on Talk:Richard Nixon BCV 17:03, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

writing history on Wikipedia
Hello Tom,

I’m an historian working at the Center for History and New Media at George Mason University (http://chnm.gmu.edu/) and we are very interested in digital, peer-produced works of history, including history articles in Wikipedia. We’d like to talk to people about their experiences working on articles in Wikipedia, in connection with a larger project on the history of the free and open source software movement. Would you be willing to talk with us about your involvement, either by phone, a/v chat, IM, or email? This could be as lengthy or brief a conversation as you wish.

Thanks for your consideration.

Olivia

oryan at gmu dot edu

Governors & other politicians
Tom,

I found you through your edit of Philip Phillips. As it happens I am working on Delaware politicians in much the same way you are in Maryland. I am looking hard for standards, templates, etc for articles and categories that will keep the work to a minimum. You must have one for categories, which I would be interested in, and would like to have as much consistency as possible in the politicians articles. See Elbert N. Carvel for an example of what I have done. I look forward to hearing from you.

stilltim 18:03, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Tom,

 * Thanks for your reply. I understand much of your general comments, and have seen some of the material you reference.  I am perhaps working with a different level of questions.  For instance in the categorization of people who are Governors of Delaware, should they be categorized as "Governors of Delaware," or "Delaware Governors?"  Are they also categorized as Delaware Politicians, and Delaware People? or is it Politicians of Delaware and People of Delaware.  I don't care what the answer is, I just want something consistent so my editing doesn't go in circles.

 * I'll happily try your politician box. I do think the articles look better spaced out a little, but if there is an informal standard for one line, I will adjust.  I will also adjust to the apparent standard of the succession boxes at the very end, although I think they look better and make more sense before the references and links. Is there a reason they are buried at the end, or is it just done that way?  What's the best way for raising questions about possibly changing this sort of thing?

 * Thanks for your thoughts.

 * stilltim 19:18, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Categorization
Hi, thanks for fixing the categories on the Idaho Rep. articles I created. I would have done it myself, but when I created the articles, those cats showed up as redlinks during a preview, and they're still not listed as sub-categories on Category:Members of the U.S. House of Representatives. Any idea why not? Should I simply assume that Category:U.S. Representatives from STATE exists, from now on? Thanks a lot for all the work. Best, Meelar (talk) 21:15, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Maryland alumni
I am an alumni of U of Maryland, College Park...class of er ah '82...I remember this dive south on Route 1 called the Rendevous Inn or something like that...not far from Frat Row...place was nasty, but the beer was cheap..I remember the floor never got mopped and you'd end up collecting bits of floor tiles in your shoes and taking them home with you! Anyway, I really enjoyed my time there and hope you do too.--MONGO 05:33, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Class of '82. Hmmm. 18-year-olds were legal in that bar then (and 16 year old prevalent).  I won't tell. --Noitall 05:40, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the good words. :)  Eh I see you two are still up late as well... damn addictive editing! -- tomf688  05:54, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * I used to buy beer in Maryland when I was 16 at the Beer wine and cheese stores...but I always looked older than my years due to my size. Nobody carded me then. I work a lot of nights, hence my all nighters. Tom, look into the Gallup strength finder program...it helps you identify your strengths and is used by some universities for the purpose of helping undergrads find their strengths and hence, narrow down their search for a major...they may use it there (at U of Maryland)...if not check out www.gallup.com

--MONGO 06:51, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * nevermind..here it is: http://www.strengthsquest.com/ --MONGO 06:52, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

WYD Image
The picture called Image:Vudrom1.jpg on the World Youth Day page was take by me. So, there is no copyright, the picture can stay there if you think it's a good picture. Sporki 21:20, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I think I have fixed it now, World Youth Day. But I don't remember what kind of camera I used. I hope it's OK now. By the way, have you been on a world youth day? Sporki 10:23, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Historic pics
I am uploading a few historic pics for some articles I found and thought you might be interested since some are of some Governors and Mayors, at. --Noitall 00:14, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Eye Hurricane
That was a great job reformating the photo, I figured a pro would take it on. ?Kyle Andrew Brown 02:02, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Sarbanes
What's your take on Sarbanes inclusion of Succession issue? I'm neutral, but wondering.Kyle Andrew Brown 22:24, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Yes, you said it right, it's not worthy of being deleted. I do wish there was more comprehensive content. This Senator is quietly known, but an expert on the financial legislation. His expertise is going to be missed regardless of his politics.Kyle Andrew Brown 02:24, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Sigh, Wiki Taskmaster you be. Anyway, I thinks you gotta be involved in scandal to get any ink in this business.Kyle Andrew Brown 03:34, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Nowcommons
Heya, images that have been moved to commons aren't speedy deletion candidates; Just tag them with and they'll get cleaned up in due course. --fvw *  23:48, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * I usually tag images that are duplicated on the Commons with speedy deletion because they are of lower quality/resolution (as in the case of the Mikulski image), which is a criteria for speedy deletion, but is good to know in some cases.  Thanks. :) -- tomf688  01:07, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * The CSD only applies to images on wikipedia, not those on commons I'm afraid; even if the image on wikipedia is of lower quality. --fvw *  01:09, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm well thanks for the info. Also... could you make your talk link in your sigs a little easier to click? ;) -- tomf688  01:19, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * You mean I should get a longer name? Hmm, I'll consider it. --fvw *  01:21, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * No no, I was just referring to the little * next to your name in your signature. -- tomf688  01:27, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh, that. Yes, finding a way to make that easier to click may merit some thought. In the mean time: --fvw * 01:29, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Just a thought
This may not satisfy all of your needs, but if you don't show some support, we're not likely to get even this much. — Xiong 熊 talk * 10:44, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Assistance
Ever since the Wiki Project for decency, Hipocrite has been trolling my edits and causing major disruption around the globe. Could you weigh in on Images and media for deletion/2005 September 13 when I was minding my own business and Hipocrite tried to delete more of my work. If he is successful, it will result in the deletion of 3 pictures from Annapolis, Maryland. --Noitall 14:36, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Hurricane Andrew
I was impressed with our recent edit and think you phrased the point better than I ever could. I've put something on the talk page. Feel free to chime in with your POV as I bet you could make yours much clearer than my convaluted (sp?) crap. LOL Gator1 21:38, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Sorry
Sorry, I thought weather.com got their images from the NWS.

A pleasure, and Congrats!
I was most happy to vote for such a editor. Congratulations on making it! All the best with you new admin buttons. Cheers  Ban e  s  15:36, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh, well, good luck then!  Ban e  s  16:19, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Seconds from another supporter. Good luck! --Rogerd 18:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Nope, I have complete faith in you. Best of luck in getting promoted.  --Merovingian (t) (c) ( e ) 00:37, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

 * You deserve the thanks more than us. Don't bother thanking me for telling it like it is. You're a great editor and your edits on the hurricane pages and elsewhere are deeply valued. :)

 * Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde 22:03, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Admin status
Looks like you're going to get promoted to Admin and since I will be on a vacation for the next two weeks, I wanted to offer a congrats, albeit premature...happy editing!--MONGO 00:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

the wub's RfA
Thanks a lot for your support on my RfA, I really appreciate it. Yours is looking pretty good :-) the wub  "?!"  14:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Titoxd's RfA
Thank you for supporting me in my RfA. I never thought I would get so much support! Thanks to your help, my nomination was the 10th most supported RfA in Wikipedia history. Now, please keep an eye out on me while I learn the new tools, ok? Thanks again! Tito xd (?!?) 20:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations!
I'm pleased to inform you that you are now an administrator. Please consider reading all the material on the administrators' reading list before testing out your new privileges. Though everything you do, excluding image deletions and page history merges, is reversible, you should nevertheless be very careful with your sysop capabilities. For instructions, please see the administrators' how-to guide. Good luck! — Dan | Talk 00:18, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

brain image license
Hi,

I've adapted the brain image from the site that allows free reproduction of their images. This information is included in the image information. Please check this out and see what else needs to be indicated. --EncephalonSeven 00:44, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Their wording is the following: "For users who are interested in using any of our images for educational or research purposes, you have our permission to use them. But, they are not to be published and copyrighted since this would prohibit others from using the same images. At any rate, we request that you identify them as from the University of Wisconsin and Michigan State Comparative Mammalian Brain Collections, as well as from those at the National Museum of Health and Medicine. Also, we request that you refer to the Web Site where you obtained them, as well as the fact that preparation of all these images and specimens have been funded by the National Science Foundation, as well as by the National Institutes of Health." As you can see, their images can be used both for educational and research purposes, and their only concern is that the images are not published AND copyrighted. So, I do not think there is any problem in publishing this image in wikipedia.  Do you want me to e-mail them and clarify their license? --EncephalonSeven 01:07, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I've looked through the legal stuff that you suggested and I got lost. Could we redirect this analysis to some experts?  On my part, I can e-mail the brain collection site and specifically ask them if they allow reproduction of their images by wikipedia.--EncephalonSeven 01:34, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Let's try to make a case for a fair use. There is no other source for images like that. Am I moving in the right direction? --EncephalonSeven 01:54, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Congrats!
Congratulations on sysop/adminship! -- NS LE  ( Commu nicate! ) < Contribs > 01:13, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations
I had little doubts that you would make it up. You more than deserve the title. Thanks for supporting my RfA, even if I didn't make it. I hope you'll support me again when I give it another shot in a couple months. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde 01:20, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Huh! Now you got up and I didn't. Now that jus ain't fair! :) -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde 01:29, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Warnings to anon's
Please sign test warnings to anon's so other admins can at a glance see what/when it happened, and use subst: for test templates to reduce loads on Wikipedia servers. Thanks and keep up the good work, and congrats on your RfA. - RoyBoy 800 04:02, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Yup and no problemo. Here are my fav templates that I have in a text file which I'll copy and paste to anon talk pages when I'm doing hardcore RC patrol:

- ~ - ~ - ~ - ~

- RoyBoy 800 04:12, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Your RfA
Congratulations, and you're quite welcome. --Merovingian (t) (c) ( e ) 09:05, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

congrats!
i have no clue who you are actually.

My RfA
Thank you for your support! If you should ever have any concerns about my actions as an administrator, please be sure to tell me! Kirill Lokshin 13:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Dvyost RfA Thanks
Thanks for your support on my RfA! Rest assured that I'll do my best to wield the mop with honor and righteousness. Cheers! --Dave 14:42, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Congrats
Yeah, I saw the vote, wasn't it something like 30-1, not too bad, well deserving. Always nice to have another admin to help combat vandalism on the hurricane pages. --Holderca1 15:51, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Colossus
I saw your edit of Colossus (statue) appear op the Recent changes page. I believe expanding Colossus (statue) is unneccessary, as there is a larger entry under Colossus of Rhodes. After looking at the revision history of Colossus (statue), it may be better to redirect to Colossus of Rhodes. According to Special:Undelete/Colossus_(statue), Colossus (statue) has been deleted several times, including once when it was a redirect. As I'm still quite new to wikipedia, I'm uncertain how to procede. Perhaps you could take it from here? 131.155.229.224 22:47, October 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help. The redirect is in place. 131.155.229.224 23:11, October 30, 2005 (UTC)

Ari Zilnik
Why was Ari Zilnik deleted? I had created the entry because I was surprised no one had put it in yet. He is in Canadian band INF which is extremly popular incase you don't yet know. What is your reasoning behind the deletion as I think the fact that it was deleted is quite rediculous.

Speedy deletion of Freddy's Four Fingers
Hi. I just spent a few minutes cleaning up the article on the band Freddy's Four Fingers. You speedy deleted it while I was working on getting it to Wp standards. With three albums out, and local press reviews, they may well pass WP:MUSIC. I know that it is frustrating to see so many bad articles about bands that don't come close to passing WP:MUSIC, but I'd like to encourage you to maybe at least do a Google search and send the questionable cases to AfD. Thanks. Jkelly 22:21, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikicommons categories
I added some new categories for hurricane images to wikipedia commons.

 * Category:NASA MODIS images
 * Category:2005 Atlantic hurricane season

and more. Try 'em out when uploading new files. Jdorje 02:34, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

My RFA
Thank you very much for supporting my rather contentious request for adminship, but now that I've been promoted, I'd like to do a little dance here *DANCES*. If you have any specific issues/problems with me, please feel free to state them on my talk page so that I can work to prevent them in the future, and thanks once again! ALKIVAR ™ 07:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for supporting my RfA
I know I've been slow in saying this, but thanks for supporting my request for adminship. It was an honor to be both nominated and approved as an admin. If there is ever any adminish (is that a word :-) things you need help with, please let me know. --Alabamaboy 16:34, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

My RfA
I just wanted to leave you a brief note thanking you for your support vote on my successful RfA. — Phil Welch 22:02, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Bush at 36% for November
--Xtreambar 19:03, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Tom/Archive2


text:
Talk:Patroclus

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jjdgzd. Peer reviewers: Eewaggoner.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 06:14, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Odysseus... What?
"After retrieving his body, which had been protected on the field by Odysseus and Ajax (Telamonian Aias)..."

Wait, what? Isn't it Menelaus and Ajax? Odysseus was still injured and didn't take part in that battle. 212.250.138.33 (talk) 02:38, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

 * You are correct, I changed it and added a reference. Lophostrix (talk) 11:27, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

What was he then?!
It seems to me that the Greek heroes had attained a level of divinity which set them apart from ordinary mortals - even though the Greeks saw them also as historical personages. I am sure that you are aware that at times these heroes, formally known as "divine heroes" were even referred to as "gods" in a casual use of the word. Since to us they are even less historical then they were to the Greeks, what would you call them if not deities (a term which encompasses supernatural personages of ranks below that of the gods)?! Haiduc 12:37, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced that "deity" is a significantly wider concept than "god". There certainly isn't a meaningful distinction here.  (I'd also be interested to see an example of a hero — besides figures like Heracles and Asclepius, who were actually considered as both heroes and gods — being described as θεός.)

 * As for the specifics of the Greek divine heroes, I think that incorporating them into the term "deity" muddies the waters unnecessarily. Although heroes were widely worshipped in hero cults, there's still a distinction drawn between heroes and gods, both in ancient writings (Homer) and contemporary scholarship (for example, the Oxford Classical Dictionary, which says in its hero-cult entry, "Heroes... were a class of beings worshipped by the Greeks, generally conceived of as the powerful dead, and often forming a class intermediate between gods and men").  I think that incorporating gods and heroes into a single category of "deities" isn't really very useful for Wikipedia's purposes.  If, as seems to be the case, the scholars regard gods and heroes as different categories, we should do the same. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:55, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you have a point here - I have modified the name of the category to accomodate this understanding of the definitions. Haiduc 04:09, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Who is right? According to the movie "troy" Patroclus was Achilles cousin and not his friend, and that Patroclus was younger than Achilles. So I'm wondering about what is the correct information about Patroclus?.(Bader=21:47, 9/4/2008) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.166.179.101 (talk) 18:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

 * It is good advice to ignore everything in the Troy movie. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

therapon?
An anonymous user added the redlinked word "therapon" to the introduction. I wasn't familiar with this word in English, and I couldn't find it in an English-language dictionary, the Oxford Classical Dictionary or even in Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon. I eventually found it in a Homeric lexicon (meaning "squire", roughly). It's apparently also used in koine to mean "servant" or "attendant" (so used in the New Testament, in the letter to the Hebrews), but I'm not familiar with the word's meaning in a Homeric or classical sense. I assume it's derived from ϑέρὰπεία ("service, attendance, medical treatment or cure"). Is this a term that should be recognized? I don't think that a casual reader should have to hunt for the meaning as I did. If it's not a widely known word, and the link remains red, it's not very helpful to have it in the description of Patroclus. Anyone object to removal? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with your removal of "therapon" from the article, but it may be interesting to know a bit more about the significance of the word: it seems to derive from an Anatolian word that meant "ritual substitute". By calling Patroklos the therapon of Achilles, the Iliad indicates that Patroklos' death is a substitute for Achilles' death, and a foreshadowing of it. A good place to look for the significance of the word is Ch. 2, section 8 of Gregory Nagy's The Best of the Achaeans, conveniently placed online by the Johns Hopkins University Press.

 * This is a bit specialized for a general encyclopedic article, however. --Akhilleus (talk) 00:38, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Josiah, I got your message. Yes, therapon means "ritual substitute".  I actually like including specifics in the encyclopedia - I think that's what's exciting about Wikipedia, that with continual updating you can (theorhetically) find information that is always up to date or being improved.  Anyway, no biggie. 131.194.232.14 02:46, 17 April 2006 (UTC)131.194.232.14

 * Thanks to both of you. I think that if a therapon article is created, we can mention it here, or we can add a bit to the article about Homer's use of the word and its applicability to Patroclus.  I was just worried about the addition of the word without any context or explanation readily available to the lay reader. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 06:31, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008
Article reassessed and graded as start class. --dashiellx (talk) 20:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Spelling
Shouldn't the name of the article be Patroklos? It's the direct transliteration of the Greek spelling. 70.128.46.25 (talk) 21:32, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Missing sources
1. "Menoetius was a member of the Argonauts in his youth. He had several marriages, and in different versions of the tale four different women are named as the mother of Patroclus."

What are the sources for the different versions?

2. "The death of Achilles is given in sources other than the Iliad."

What are these sources then?

ICE77 (talk) 07:20, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Does not Patroclus (PTR) without consonants, have some resemblence to St. Peter? or Jesus?
Well? The sources are this site and related ones! Regards, 96.19.147.40 (talk) 02:25, 14 January 2013 (UTC)Ronald L. Hughes

 * Well, the vowels are kind of important. The root of Patroclus is pater, "father", while Peter is petros, a rock. I suppose you could say the meaning of "Patroclus" ("glory of the father") could be a way to describe Jesus, but otherwise, what are the similarities? Sticking -cles (or -clus) on the end of a noun was a common way of forming names in Greek (Heracles, Androcles, Megacles, and so on). Adam Bishop (talk) 22:20, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Edits of this day
Please see the "Missing sources" section above, dating to 2011, to start, to understand that the perspective I am about to state is not new, and not singular or isolated. I merely extend the examination that this previous editor did, to the whole of the article.

I will begin with my conclusion, and then justify it: The article is an embarrassment to the encyclopedia, in its flouting the stated WP rules regarding sourcing and original research by editors. The article is a student essay (and poor for want of sourcing), with only sporadically appearing citations to primary sources, often vague at that. Most sentences and paragraphs have in fact no sources cited, despite their non-common knowledge content (most of article). On the few occasions that a citation appears, only primary sources are cited, and incompletely, and without standard links as can be offered to classical sources (most of remainder of article). There is a single exception, to the book of Martin; hence, a single quality secondary source appears in the whole of the article, as of this date.

Finally, in addition to its failure to allow for the verification of its factual content, the article repeated states interpretive conclusions regarding historical events, stating matters as fact without the required expert attribution (secondary sources), and so disconnects this article from published expert opinion, making it a mere pose of encyclopedic writing. In short, in its reliance on unsourced material or primary sources, and so on editor expertise, the the article is near to unverifiable, and almost entirely original research, in violation of WP:OR and WP:VERIFY. Le Prof 73.210.154.39 (talk) 06:48, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Fiction tag added, as best available (though not exactly needed) message, to call attention to the fact that the article fails, in its choice of language at times, to properly distinguish between history and mythology. Note, with regard to Patroclus and Achilles, the (historically presented) description of their being sent of to grow up among the centaurs. Leprof 7272 (talk) 07:28, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Issues are pedantic
Patroclus is a mythological character. It should be understood that every biographical statement in this article pertains to the legends surrounding the character as delineated in the Iliad, not as an historical personage. As such, I find it rather a nuisance to see all the big boxes complaining about the article. In addition, the frequent "non-primary source needed" notes also seem ill-placed considering that nigh everything that has ever been written about Patroclus is derived from the Iliad, a primary source as it were. Complaining that the article is derived from a single source seems rather pointless considering that there is only one source (besides the occasional and mostly insignificant references to him in other works of antiquity, as well as the Odyssey); it seems no different than whining that everything that is known about Chandler Bing is derived from a single source: Friends, who doesn't exist outside of that universe. Likewise, Patroclus exists only within the universe of the Homeric epics: any secondary/tertiary sources would invariably be interpretations of that one source. In my mind it is pointless to insist on something more. Philologick (talk) 16:02, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Possible Sources
I am going to focus on this article, specifically Patroclus' relationship with Achilles, for a class I am currently taking. I have compiled a few possible references. Please let me know if you have any suggestions.

Ledbetter, Grace M.. “Achilles' Self-address: Iliad 16.7-19”. The American Journal of Philology 114.4 (1993): 481–491. Percy, William Armstrong. “Reconsiderations About Greek Homosexualities.” Journal of Homosexuality 49.3-4 (2005): 13-61. Rabel, Robert J. “Cebriones the Diver: Iliad 16.733-76.” The American Journal of Philology 114.3 (1993): 339-41. Dowden, Ken. The Uses of Greek Mythology. London: Routledge, 1992. Print.

Jjdgzd (talk) 20:33, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

After making some additions to the page (including clarifying information and updating proper citations), I also corrected both Patroklos' and Achilleus' names to the spelling used by Homer in the Iliad. However, I am unable to figure out how to change the title to the correct spelling.

Jjdgzd (talk) 05:18, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The spellings "Patroclus" and "Achilles" are the most common spellings and are used throughout Wikipedia. Please stop changing them. Paul August ☎ 01:15, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Consistency with Achilles and Patroclus
Hi all! I'm a student editor working on Achilles and Patroclus for a class assignment. I'll be editing the Relationship with Achilles section here for continuity across both articles. I'll likely edit down and move over any information that is specifically related to their relationship, as that is the purpose of the Achilles and Patroclus page! Grenadine13 (talk) 02:04, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: HUM 202 - Introduction to Mythology
— Assignment last updated by Cherryfly (talk) 04:38, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi everyone! I'm working on a project about adding references to mythological Wikipedia pages-- I've included four so far. Please feel free to edit or delete if they don't seem necessary. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cherryfly (talk • contribs) 02:29, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Patroclus


text:
Debajehmujig Theatre Group

The Debajehmujig Storytellers, also Debahehmyjig Theatre Group, or informally Debaj, is a First Nations theatre group and multi-arts organization based in the Wiikwemkoong Unceded Territory on Manitoulin Island in Northern Ontario. Debaj is the longest running Indigenous theatre in North America.

History
Debajehmujig is from the Ojibwe (debaajimoojig) and Cree (tepācimūcik), both meaning "storytellers". Debajehmujig was founded by Shirley Cheechoo, Blake Debassige and colleagues in 1984 in M'Chigeeng First Nation (formerly known as West Bay) on Manitoulin Island. In 1989, the company moved to Wikwemikong Unceded Indian Reserve (Wiikwemkoong Unceded Territory). In addition to being located in Wiikwemkoong, the company operates the Debajehmujig Creation Centre in Manitowaning. The main stage is the open air stage in the ruins of the Holy Cross Mission in Wiikwemkoong. The company plays throughout Canada under its Outreach program. The company was established so that "Native youth be given the opportunity to see themselves and their lives reflected on the stage, in the characters, in the stories, in the experiences portrayed."

Notable alumni

 * Shirley Cheechoo — founder, actor, playwright, artistic director, board member
 * Tomson Highway — playwright, actor, artistic director (1984/85)
 * Rene Highway — actor
 * Drew Hayden Taylor — actor, playwright

title: Debajehmujig Theatre Group


text: File:Karlovacka pivovara.jpg

title: File:Karlovacka pivovara.jpg