text:
Talk:Oxalic acid

Content in Food
this chart is from the USDA, 1984. Several values are inconsistent with current research, notably those that are off by factor of 10 in the publication itself. For example, carrots are listed as containing .5g/100g oxalic acid, which is 500mg/100g. More recent studies, such as the one cited for beetroot (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf048128d) report that raw carrots contain 50mg/100g, which would translate to 0.05g/100g. There are several significant differences like this that call for a more up to date and comprehensive authority for resolve. Everydaycurious (talk) 19:25, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Toxicity and safety
quote from the article: "In humans, oxalic acid has an oral LDLo (lowest published lethal dose) of 600 mg/kg (human).[11] The main toxicity of oxalic acid is due to the precipitation of calcium oxalate in the kidneys when urine becomes supersaturated with respect to this salt. Oxalic acid is also a metabolism product of the degradation of ethylene glycol if accidentally ingested and, as such, directly represents a danger for the kidneys in case of glycol poisoning, which can largely be eliminated through the use of propylene glycol based antifreeze products instead for automotive engine cooling."

 * what exactly is that last sentence saying about antifreeze used in automotive engine cooling? I think there might be some missing words or information... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jraudhi (talk • contribs) 16:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Radiocarbon Dating
Perhaps mention of Oxalic acid's use in radiocarbon dating?

"The principal modern radiocarbon standard is N.I.S.T (National Institute of Standards and Technology; Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA) Oxalic Acid I (C2H2O4). Oxalic acid I is N.I.S.T designation SRM 4990 B and is termed HOx1. This is the International Radiocarbon Dating Standard. Ninety-five percent of the activity of Oxalic Acid from the year 1950 is equal to the measured activity of the absolute radiocarbon standard which is 1890 wood. 1890 wood was chosen as the radiocarbon standard because it was growing prior to the fossil fuel effects of the industrial revolution. The activity of 1890 wood is corrected for radioactive decay to 1950. Thus 1950, is year 0 BP by convention in radiocarbon dating and is deemed to be the 'present'. 1950 was chosen for no particular reason other than to honour the publication of the first radiocarbon dates calculated in December 1949 (Taylor, 1987:97)." http://www.c14dating.com/agecalc.html

and

"A 14C reference material or standard was chosen to represent as closely as possible the 14C content of carbon in naturally growing plants. The 14C content of the standard material itself does not need to be, in fact is not, equal to the standard 14C content. The definition of the standard 14C activity is based on 95% of the specific activity of the original NBS oxalic acid (Ox1) in the year AD 1950 (KarlZn et al. 1966), as will be discussed in more detail later." http://www.radiocarbon.org/Subscribers/Fulltext/v41n3_mook_vdplicht_227.html

Cleanup
I fail to see sny carbon int the molecule diagram only ho, o, o, oh wtf is the carbon?? can this be fixed????!?!?!!!?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.21.225 (talk) 15:43, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm not a chemist, but it seems to be sort of standard in these diagrams of organic compounds that the carbon isn't labeled; they're at the junctions in the diagram. There are two carbons in the middle, connected to each other by a single bond.  Each has an OH connected to it by a single bond, and an O connected to it by a double bond.  If that isn't clear, look at the stick and ball diagram.  The carbons are grey.  71.163.32.187 (talk) 22:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)Stephen Kosciesza

 * I came to this talk page seeking an answer to the same question. Having read the above and investigated further, it seems that the answer is supplied here – not only the C but also the H of organic compounds (and maybe even the N and O) can for the most part be assumed without being explicitly indicated, as they can be identified by their different valencies. Vilĉjo (talk) 01:02, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Re:Foods that contain significant quantities of oxalic acid include cocoa, chocolate, most nuts, most berries, rhubarb, beans, and beets, among 'many others'.

In addition to its natural ...
 * If there are many others, they need to be added, hence 'clean' template. User:fabartus

 * I removed the phrase, and many others because the list begins with includes (stating that the list is not complete). I then removed the clean tag from this page. RJFJR 17:15, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

 * That ought to stick. You can find sugar in everything, but it's hard to find in Coffee.

I can think of four relevant kinds of list: short, long, exhaustive, and complete. Brewhaha@edmc.net 20:12, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Food high in oxalic acid
I found this page and I merged the parsley and spanish into this page based on   but I coundn't confirm tea nor that cooking increases oxalic acid. -- W P  Talk  09:19, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Oxalic acid has a strong sour taste. so it is safe to assume that foods with NO sour taste whatsoever do NOT contain significant amount of it. I also found parsley in this article's list of "food items with high oxalic acid content" mentioned, which I belive is wrong. Sorrel, on the other hand, the most known high oxalic-acid containing plant is missing from this list, so the whole section (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalic_acid#Content_in_food_items) seems unaccountable/unreliable.94.64.31.195 (talk) 21:35, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

On this issue, I think the section on food containing oxalic acid should refer to food containing oxalate as a cation in general. From a health point of view, I guess (please correct me if I am wrong) that the poisonous effect of Oxalate is consistent whether in the form of Oxalic acid (associated with a hydronium anion), or any other anion, unless there is a particular anion which is commonly found which binds so closely with Oxalate for it to have no biological effect. This is really an argument for merging Calcium Oxalate, Oxalic acid into an article on Oxalate in general for clarity. I think health professionals, and the USDA for that matter, should be talking in terms of Oxalate, not Oxalic Acid. Nick Hill (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:26, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

This article states that "Members of the spinach family, including brassica", but the spinach family and brassicas are in separate families.MAH! (talk) 00:37, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Occurrence in nature
I thought Oxalic acid occurs in every plant, not just "many". Should this be changed to "all"? Granted, the concentration varies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UMinventor (talk • contribs) 20:43, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

It may be worth mentioning that according to Vitamin_C_megadosage "oxalic acid is produced in the metabolism of vitamin C". That article even links to this one, yet this article does not mention Vitamin C at all. (I don't know if the Vitamin C article is correct on this subject) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.89.63.47 (talk) 20:38, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Melting point/Boiling point
There is some discrepency between sources on these values. It appears that oxalic acid decomposes at 191 °C, and this is sometimes listed as a melting point: however other sopurces list a lower temperature as a sublimation point. A full review would be welcome, I will do one if I get a chance. Physchim62 (talk) 12:27, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Tests

 * Some tests for oxalic acid can misidentify ascorbate as oxalic acid.

- What tests...? mastodon 16:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Titration with potassium permanganate will confuse ascorbate and oxalic acid, as will most test based on reducing power: the solution is to run a second test for strong reductants using, for example, iodine. Oxalic acid is only a weak reductant, and it needs an oxidant as strong as permanganate to react. Physchim62 (talk) 07:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll include this in the article mastodon 22:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

pKa Values in Chembox
The values given as I write this do not specify a temperature. I am replacing them with 25°C values from 44th ed. of CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics and that jibe with values given in 10th ed. of Lange's Handbook of Chemistry. I did find pK values that match what was there (1.27 and 4.27) in Merck Index, but it did not give temperature either. Karlhahn 17:10, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

The values presented in the 95th ed. of CRC Handbook of Chemistry and physics are 1.25 and 3.81 respectively. page 5-94 PubChem has values of 1.46 and 4.40 Kscrudders (talk) 16:56, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

LD50
Under "hazards" the LD50 is given as 7.5g/Kg but under safety it's 378mg/Kg. These are VERY different - which is right?

 * .378 g/kg or 7.5 g/kg? That might be a raynj given from animal studies where the Cat and the Rabbit differ, and if so, then that's what should be written. Brewhaha@edmc.net 19:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

As a side note, it may be worthwhile to include the data from this study showing a much lower LDlo than reported in this article: doi:10.1016/S0140-6736(89)92967-X — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.150.214.143 (talk) 05:45, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

I didn't know it's dangerous
I eat sorrel any chance I get - I like its sour taste.

I guess that oxalic acid is as toxic as anything else - if you'll eat too much, you'll not feel good :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.245.187.51 (talk) 08:55, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

 * The main toxicity of oxalic acid arises from the precipitation of calcium oxalate in the kidneys where it forms kidneys stones and can block the kidneys themselves at high dose. As glycol is oxidized in oxalic acid, it gives the same toxicity problems. A diet too rich in oxalic acid (sorrel, rhubarb, spinach, tomato's, ...) is not good for persons already suffering from the gout disease (acute inflammatory arthritis). Shinkolobwe (talk) 15:50, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

is it a strong or weak acid???
I have tried to add some oxalic acid and some acetic acid into copper(II)carbonate respectively, in order to test their strength. It was quite disappointing to find that oxalic acid react even slower than acetic acid......Is it really true that oxalic acid is "about 10,000 times stronger than acetic acid."? I am frustated with that.Superdvd 09:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

 * pH and reaction rates are only related. Copper oxalate is less soluble, so it has to precipitate, too. A better question is whether Oxalate can precipitate Copper(II) out of the Acetate, and Oxalate should be the major product with sufficient time and concentration. I applaud the orijinal research in this case, because it's not part of the article, which should contain more about real world implications. It is a weak acid compared to inorganics. Brewhaha@edmc.net 20:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Bad Sentence
"For this reason, a second test for strong reductants using, for example, iodine."

Makes no sense to me. Can anyone explain? Or is it a gramatical error? 82.40.75.55 22:57, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

(Edit to sign)

The Ionic States of it
I believe that this article could have included the factors that affect ionisation of oxalic acid.Also oxalic acid yields 2 protons while the other dicarboxylic acids don't yield two protons.Hence the factors for oxalic acid to yield both the protons could have been explained along with Ka values ..

 * The chem-data box gives the first and second pKa values, which tell you all you need to know about its diprotic behavior at 25°C. As for other dicarboxylic acids, they too have two pKa values, and thus, some fraction of each of them will yield two protons. See succinic acid as an example. Karl Hahn (T) (C) 12:10, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Missing the melting point.
This article doesn't seem to mention the melting point or boiling point of Oxalic acid. Does anyone happen to know what they are? Larrythefunkyferret 21:56, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Use in steel dishwasher
I used to put a tablespoon or so of oxalic acid in my dishwasher to remove hard water stains from my dishes. At that time I had a dishwasher with a plastic interior. I now have one with a stainless steel interior; can anyone tell me if that is problematic? I don't want to damage my new dishwasher! Thanks! 70.146.77.67 (talk) 21:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I guess it's easy to experiment and find out. One way to do this would be to pour the liquid into a steel utensil and let it sit there for a while. Observe carefully to see if there is any damage to the utensil. If there is no damage, repeat the experiment for a much longer duration. If there is no damage still, you can also try with hotter oxalic acid if you like. --IO Device (talk) 05:07, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

More foods
Kiwifruit and taro should be added to the list of plants containing oxalic acid. Badagnani (talk) 05:57, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Does anyone have a cite for this ranking of oxalic acid contents in foods? -Krasnoludek (talk) 21:35, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

This list of food items seems to be completely out of thin air. sorrel is missing, while some other items on the list are probably not significant, so should not be listed. This list must have been taken from a housewifes magazine Sunday's issue. 94.64.31.195 (talk) 21:46, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merger of Oxalate and Oxalic acid
I propose that the articles Oxalate and Oxalic acid be merged. The articles were started independently within three months of one another, wiki-link to one another, and address the same topic but with somewhat different emphasis. It doesn't make sense to me to divide the content this way. Opinions? Yappy2bhere (talk) 20:00, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

 * I value having separate articles for acids and their conjugate base anions. I find that when such articles are merged, the anion gets neglected over time and things like the structural diagrams of the anion disappear. It would be a shame for this to happen to oxalate.

 * There are many other articles with the same pattern Chloride and Hydrochloric acid, Acetate and Acetic acid, Acrylate and Acrylic acid, Citrate and Citric acid, Formate and Formic acid, and so on.

 * Importantly, the name of the anion, such as oxalate, also refers to esters (Diphenyl oxalate) and salts (e.g. Disodium oxalate) - a separate article for Oxalate makes it easier to find such information than scrolling down through Oxalic acid.

 * If the merger goes ahead, it should be done sensibly and not lead to loss of information.

 * Ben (talk) 20:18, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Agreed, I do not see what advantage there would be in the merge. While oxalic acid is related to oxalates, they are distinct substances (the acid can hardly be called an "oxalate of hydrogen") with distinct names and distinct formulas, and either occurs in significant contexts without the other. Moreover, most of the information in the two articles is either about the acid or about the anion; there is very little duplication.  The same can be said about hydrogenoxalate, oxalic anhydride, etc..  If anything I would favor a split into "oxalate (anion)" and "oxalate (ester)", except that at the moment there is very little material about oxalate esters in general, and a split would be somewhat inconvenient for readers who look up "oxalate". All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 22:18, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * How bizarre. The article Oxalate isn't about "oxalates," it's an article about "oxalate," deprotonated oxalic acid, that includes links to articles on oxalates in its See also appendix. Oxalic acid and oxalate are not "distinct substances"; they are related as conjugate acid to conjugate base. One article may be "somewhat inconvenient" for a user seeking information specific to oxalate and not to oxalic acid to scroll down a page to find it, but two articles is a barrier to learning about the chemical if you're not already a chemist. Yappy2bhere (talk) 22:42, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * "Oxalate" is indeed also the name of a family of compounds which contain the oxalate anion. While the family should perhaps be called "oxalates", the point is moot because Wikipedia rules say that article names must be in the singular even when the article is about a family (e.g. "vegetable" not "vegetables"). Someone (not me!) could argue for a split into "oxalate anion" and "oxalate salt", but, apart from readers inconvenience, the second article would have little information besides the definition "an oxalate is a salt that contains the oxalate anion" and a list of links to specific salts. Oxalic acid is a covalent solid; there is no trace of the oxalate anion in it. Potassium oxalate is an ionic solid; it contains oxalate anions but no protons, hence not a trace of oxalic acid. If those are not "distinct substances" then I don't know what could be. More generally while an anion like chloride can be viewed as "deprotonated hydrogen chloride", that is a rather indirect way of defining the thing.  The anion contains no hydrogen, why bring hydrogen into the topic? It is like defining "box" as "a cart without wheels".  That definition is also hardly unique: why not "de-iodated iodine chloride", or "de-methylated methyl chloride"? A better definition of "chloride" is just "chlorine plus one electron", but even so there is very little that is shared between chloride and chlorine (or either substance and HCl).  It is true that one can be obtained from the other, but if that was an argument then "iron chloride" should be merged into "iron" (or into "chorine?) and "carbon dioxide" and "methane" should be merged into "carbon". Another argument against merging anions with their H-acids is that sometimes the acid is elusive while the salt is stable: merging carbonate into carbonic acid, for example, would be quite weird. Anyway, these philosophical considerations are largely subjective and we could argue them forever. What is more important is whether the readers would be better served by one article, or by two (or more).  Well, I still don't see what readers would gain from a merge. All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 23:57, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * We'll never do this merge, too much precedent for separate articles acids and conjugate bases and elements and their redox partners. So forget it.  Rather, let's do what Ben, Jorge and I do - add content!--Smokefoot (talk) 04:24, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

 * If you want to discuss changing policy within the Wikipedia Chemistry project, I recommend that you communicate with the project page. The pattern is so widespread that your new suggestions on changing this approach require broad discussion. We're talking about a lot of articles! As mentioned at the Talk:Oxalic acid, WE-Chem has "much precedent for separate articles acids and conjugate bases and elements and their redox partners" My guess is that there are perhaps a hundred or so similar pairs of articles. In fact we even distinguish aqueous acids and the hydrogen halides. Similarly, we distinguish isomers often as well. So please communicate at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemistry if you have suggestions for changing widely employed structure for the chem articles. The group would certainly enjoy benefitting from your insights on new ways of communicating chemical concepts. I am going to revert your reversion of my fairly extensive edit on oxalate. You are welcome to contribute technical content as well, of course, but you shouldn't revert my explanation of the ionization of oxalic acid - maybe you were feeling sore. Your merger suggestion has been discussed (and dispensed with) years ago when these pages were originally organized. Again, you are certainly encouraged to talk to a broader audience, if you're up to it.--Smokefoot (talk) 04:19, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that your 440 characters were redacted when I restored the merge tags that you deleted. By all means replace them. If there is a policy in place that specifies this topical organization, please cite the policy. I found no such policy described, but perhaps I wasn't looking in the right place. Of course, I also found no record that such a "merger suggestion has been discussed (and dispensed with) years ago when these pages were originally organized," so maybe you could point me there, too. Yappy2bhere (talk) 13:01, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oppose the merger, per ample precedent. It is disappointing that you removed content and that you have not looked around as recommended by Jorge Stolfi: chlorine vs chloride vs hydrogen chloride, acetic acid vs acetate, phosphate vs phosphoric acid.  Etc. We will revise our MOS to prevent similar issues in the future.--Smokefoot (talk) 14:59, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Yappy2bhere's suggestion includes many other articles is not limited in scope to this article, and WT:CHEM/WT:CHEMISTRY are more relevant forums for this sort of discussion. That aside, it is quite clear that the consensus here is against a merger. The various reasons mentioned, such as long-standing practice, the relative importance of this anion (vs. some obscure ones) are perfectly reasonable. The edit summary for this edit was inappropriate as well. In conclusion, the topic has been discussed, there is no consensus for merger, the tags should come off. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 16:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Second Rifleman 82 and add a philosophical note: we could merge all carbide stubs (or alike) into one article, or we can keep them separately, together with carbide article, and hope they will all develop (and some do). Same here, oxalate and oxalic acid have different content; they can be merged, but I see no gain in merging (no duplicate content) - the efforts spent on merging could better be directed to improving the individual articles. Materialscientist (talk) 07:11, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

 * I created most of these a few years ago; obviously my opinion is that it's worthwhile to have a separate page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.170.59.138 (talk) 16:05, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, "uniform organization" should be a very low priority goal at best — not just in chemistry but in the whole Wikipedia. The only advantage I see in that goal is that it may be of some help to readers and editors who are looking for a specific article. However, given automatic redirects, wikilinks, and the search engine, that advantage is actually quite small. So I would vote for a very flexible policy:
 * Splitting the acid and the anion as two articles is always acceptable, and is desirable once there is enough material on both topics.
 * Merging acid and anion articles that are already separate is desirable only if it is clear that one of them will never grow beyond stub size.
 * In either case, "desirable" means "if someone does it, great; but it is not a priority task." All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 01:31, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Oxalic acid causes erosion of stainless steel
I accidentally spilled oxalic acid crystals on a stainless steel sink. I rinsed the sink and wiped the surface dry and left it about three days. The surface was quite badly pitted especially where it had been previously scratched. It occurred to me that as fiberglass boats and associated wood work and stainless steel are often cleaned with dilute oxalic acid to remove rust stains residual oxalic could remain in stainless steel rigging cables thus speeding up the erosion process dreaded by sailors. Could a warning be placed on this oxalic acid page?Jon Stephen Horridge (talk) 10:49, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * We usually avoid giving practical advice (or impractical advice for that matter). Otherwise these articles would evolve into long lists.--Smokefoot (talk) 12:31, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Would this be a good addition here? - Oxalic acid crystals are used quite often in "associated wood work" and are sold in hardware stores as 'wood bleach'. In the wood floor world, bleached floors are most often referred to as 'pickled' floors and the use of oxalic acid is part of the process: pickled floor refinishing  EliavresEliavres (talk) 19:25, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Ingestion of oxalic acid through skin contact or orally is dangerous.
 Ingestion of oxalic acid through skin contact or orally is dangerous. . Ingestion...through the skin, makes no sense. Ingestion refers to things taken orally. 70.171.3.221 (talk)BGriffin —Preceding undated comment added 12:44, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Safe disposal of oxalic acid
I am thinking of buying some oxalic acid to use for rust removal.

Please would someone knowledgeable add information about safely disposing of it, in the "Toxicity and safety" section ? (Which is what I came to this page for.)  Darkman101 (talk) 21:36, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * We just are not in the business of giving advice (see WP:NOTMANUAL). And I wouldn't rely on advice here anyway.  In most countries, suppliers would be required to give information on safe disposal.  If I were disposing of a few ounces, it would go into the toilet because I have a lot of faith in water treatment facilities.  It is toxic to critters, at least until it all gets converted into an insoluble derivative with calcium or iron.  --Smokefoot (talk) 23:31, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Ethylene glycol sentence
"if ethylene glycol is ingested. In the body, ethylene glycol is metabolised (i.e. degraded) into oxalic acid. Use of propylene glycol as an alternative antifreeze compound in antifreeze liquids avoids this potential hazard."

I removed this sentence once for a couple of reasons. It is prescriptive and even more importantly, it is ridiculous. You should use propylene glycol because then you won't then drink ethylene glycol, which you shouldn't drink in the first place?JSR (talk) 09:22, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree that we dont want to give advice, and we would use better English. It does seem that the metabolism of ethylene glycol to oxalic acid is relevant to basic understanding. In fact we'd like to mention the pathway.--Smokefoot (talk) 12:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The first sentence in this minor rant was removed by me and then reverted after an attempt to make it read better. I have no clue and little interest in the metabolic pathway, but I don't think that the suggestion to switch to propylene glycol is applicable or useful, and I left the paragraph in a condition where the metabolic pathway was discussed, at least in very broad terms.
 * In essence, I want to eradicate the above sentences from the article without engaging in an edit war. Which, I see you have accomplished.  Hopefully you will have better luck at keeping it out that I did.JSR (talk) 12:45, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Dealing Traditionally With Oxalic Acid In Food
I read somewhere that in Japan root vegetables high in oxalic acid are washed in rice vinegar to react out oxalic acid. Anyone know anything about that? I think it would be a good addition to the article.23.16.152.103 (talk) 09:08, 3 October 2012 (UTC)BeeCier
 * Almost a year late to answer you, but "Effect of Cooking on the Soluble and Insoluble Oxalate Content of Some New Zealand Foods" found that cooking the food items in water helped leach out some of the oxalic acid into the cooking water. "Effect of domestic processing and cooking on selected antinutrient contents of some green leafy vegetables" found similar results and notes that cooking or blanching the food reduced its antinutrient content. For Spinach, longer blanching times resulted in a greater reduction of oxalic acid (they tested 5, 10, and 15 minute blanching times). For Spinach, even 5 minutes of blanching reduced the oxalic acid content by 44%, and 15 minutes reduced it by 65%. Cooking in a pan or pressure cooker was also effective. --Odie5533 (talk) 21:33, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

fenestraria and optic fibers
the fenestraria and optic fibre needs a reference desparately - or is it a joke? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.178.157.20 (talk) 11:11, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * My searches (admittedly not terribly exhaustive) turn up nothing to support the claim. I've tagged it as needing a citation. Antepenultimate (talk) 23:48, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
 * This website attributes the information (through a vague inline citation with no footnote) to "The Private Life of Plants," written by David Attenborough. This book can be read on the following website with a free account: https://openlibrary.org/works/OL1928803W/The_private_life_of_plants
 * The quote in question does appear on pages 265-267 of the text, so I'm adding this as a source. Retnuh66 (talk) 00:48, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Chemistry Shown
The shown chemical reaction, involving oxygen, is not balanced. Carbonylation is probably correct, but the use of oxygen is unlikely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.225.72.50 (talk) 12:40, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
 * The reaction appears correct and balanced to me. And it is an oxidative carbonylation that requires oxygen.  Here's an example in the literature:  http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/om00081a029  -- Ed (Edgar181) 12:46, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

 * I agree, the reaction is balanced. It is also patented by Rohm (see US patent 4,713,483).JSR (talk) 12:50, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

oxalic acid run off in lawn after rust removal...sodium bicarbonate neutralization
Best method to detoxify oxalic acid after using on concrete rust spot removal. Tom Walker (talk) 14:41, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Bacteria will likely oxidise this in the environment. And should have done that next to your concrete by now. But you could netralise this with calcium carbonate (garden line) or slaked lime. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:18, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Oxalic acid


text:
Template talk:Confirmation

Since this template should only be used on the talk pages, I'm not convinced the category tag is needed. Why would such a category ever be useful? Angela. 13:49, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, the reason that I included it is that I thought it would be quite easy for someone to stick this on a talk page without actually having confirmation, if they were of a mind. I thought it would be quite helpful to have a list of pages claiming this so that those of you at the PR department could match it to your list of received confirmations. However, I suppoe this could be done just as easily with 'What links here' on the template. --Ngb?!? 14:11, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

 * In fact, I just caught a user adding this to a talk page for material we don't have permission to use (see Talk:Thirteenth Sound). --Ngb?!? 06:46, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Permission mails should now be sent to "permissions at wikimedia dot org". Angela. 09:08, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Template talk:Confirmation


text:
Mariginiup, Western Australia

Mariginiup is an outer northern suburb of Perth, Western Australia, located within the City of Wanneroo.

The suburb was seriously affected by the 2023 Wanneroo bushfire.

title: Mariginiup, Western Australia


text:
Mindarie, Western Australia

Mindarie is an outer coastal suburb of Perth, Western Australia. It is located 36 kilometres (22 mi) north of Perth's central business district, and forms part of the City of Wanneroo local government area.

After being briefly used for its limestone deposits in the early 20th century, the suburb was formally established in 1988 with the construction of the Mindarie Marina and hotel, one of the largest man-made marina resorts in the state. Several shops, restaurants and schools are now dispersed throughout the rest of the area, which is primarily residential in character. A number of large bushland reserves and parks preserve Mindarie's previously natural state, such as its large coastal dunes.

Mindarie was used as one of the filming locations for the children's science fiction television series Stormworld.

Geography
Mindarie is formally bounded by Quinns Road, Marmion Avenue and the Indian Ocean. The suburbs of Clarkson and Merriwa lie to the east, and Quinns Rocks lies to the north. South of Mindarie is the uninhabited locality of Tamala Park.

Large swathes of natural bushland and coastline are preserved in various parks throughout the suburb, including Claytons Beach, Rosslare Park, Kinsale Park and the North and South Mindarie Foreshores. The foreshore reserves contain large Quindalup dunes and various examples of Swan Coastal Plain vegetation. The South Mindarie Foreshore was subject to coastal rehabilitation works in 2011 to protect the dunes and vegetation growing there.

Name
Mindarie was named after Lake Mindarie in nearby Carabooda. The name is a Noongar word meaning either "stand by" or "green water", first recorded by Alexander Forrest in 1874. A town also named Mindarie, in the Murray Mallee region of South Australia, claims origin from a Dieri word meaning "festival to invoke peace".

The area was initially gazetted as "Clarkson" by the Shire of Wanneroo in 1979, with the name Mindarie being allocated to the adjacent locality directly east. The two names were transposed in 1985 at the request of Smith Corporation, the developers of the Mindarie marina.

Early use and limestone industry
The Mooro group of Noongar were said to be familiar with Mindarie, including Waukolup Hill in neighbouring Tamala Park, but no Mooro settlements were ever formally established in the area. In a Mooro myth about Mindarie, two boys were brought to Mindarrie by two tribal elders to learn the law. After the elders went out to hunt, the boys ventured off to find the Indian ocean. After they drank from the sea water, they went to see if the water tasted better further out, but were swallowed by the Wagyl and spat out as tuart trees.

After John Butler's initial expedition to Wanneroo in 1835, the first permanent European settler was sheep-farmer Bernard Clarkson, who first acquired a pastoral lease in 1888 of 13,000 acres in the areas comprising modern-day Mindarie, Clarkson, Quinns Rocks and Merriwa. The leases were known as the Mindarie Pastoral Company, and the lands were primarily used for sheep-herding by subsequent generations of the Clarkson family.

Other early settlers, Henry Cooper and his brothers, built two lime kilns at Mindarie in 1932 after the closure of their quarries in Wembley. The Cooper family produced and sold treated limestone in Perth and Fremantle as the Quinns Rocks Lime Stone Company, and were some of the first permanent residents of the nearby Quinns Rocks townsite. The kilns provided work for up to thirty-two labourers, who settled in Mindarie in makeshift jarrah shacks, and are commonly held as a symbol of the diversification of industry brought on by the Great Depression at the time. The Coopers ceased lime-burning operations in 1948 after exhausting good quality limestone supplies in the area.

The kilns underwent restoration in 2001 and are preserved today in the Coopers Park bushland reserve in Mindarie. They are regarded as sites of architectural interest, due to their skilled, vernacular design and their coastal location minutes away from the Indian Ocean, unusual for lime-burning operations in the Wanneroo area.

Marina and harbourside village development
After the closure of the lime kilns, John Clarkson sold the Mindarie Pastoral Company leases in 1952, and the area remained unpopulated and unused until 1981, when Smith Corporation purchased 316 hectares of land there for $5.5 million. In July 1984, the company announced plans to develop the land into "Mindarie Keys", a $28 million marina and resort complex designed by James Christou & Partners, to be ready in time for the 1987 America's Cup in Fremantle. In the same year, plans were also proposed for a refuse disposal plant in the area to handle landfill waste from the Shire of Wanneroo, the City of Stirling and the City of Perth local areas. Both developments caused controversy with existing residents in nearby Quinns Rocks, who formed the Quinns Rocks Environment Group in June 1985 to bring together a formal opposition against the proposals. In 1988, Tamala Park was gazetted from land formerly part of southern Mindarie, and was set aside for refuse disposal, as well as public open space.

Due to the environmental and planning concerns surrounding the marina project, it did not receive final approval from the State Government until 1986, which was too late for construction to finish before the America's Cup defence began. Nonetheless, the first stage of Mindarie Keys development, including the harbour, marina and hotel, began in February 1988, and the first residential lots in southern and western Mindarie began to sell at the same time. During construction however, Smith Corporation and its joint venture partners ran into several problems, including massive cost overruns, unrealistic estimates of the land value and poor sales of the residential subdivisions surrounding the marina, brought on by the late 1980s recession. This was also compounded by cheaper, competing residential developments being sold in neighbouring Quinns Rocks.

The Mindarie Keys marina was finally completed and opened to the public a year later, at a total cost of $34 million. However, the aforementioned problems ended with Smith Corporation losing control of the project to their financiers, Beneficial Finance, who stalled further development and expenditure to focus solely on selling all remaining residential lots. The project eventually fell into the hands of receivers after the collapse of Beneficial Finance's parent company, the State Bank of South Australia, in 1991.

Mindarie Keys residential development
Mindarie Keys Joint Venture, a consortium of developers and investors led by Fini Group (now part of Mirvac), bought the fledgling Mindarie Keys project in 1996 from the South Australian Asset Management Corporation, after several years of receivership and lack of sales or development. The consortium devised a structure plan for new residential developments in the northern half of Mindarie, as well as the sale and development of older, unsold lots around the Harbourside Village. The new estate, which shares the name "Mindarie Keys" with the marina and harbourside village, was approved by the City of Wanneroo in 1998 and made Mindarie one of the highest-selling suburbs in Western Australia at the time.

The estate is bounded to the west by Anchorage Drive South and Seaham Way, to the south by Honiara Way and to the south-east by Rothesay Heights and Rochester Drive. The area is distinguished from the rest of Mindarie by unique, blue lampposts and street signs, featuring Mirvac's Mindarie Keys logo.

Catalina development
A new residential estate in Mindarie and Clarkson under the name of "Catalina" is being planned for development in 2012. The estate's proposed boundaries lay south of Neerabup Road (which is presently bushland blending into Tamala Park) and extend from the Joondalup railway line in eastern Clarkson, to the South Mindarie Foreshore in western Mindarie. Although the land is part of Mindarie and Clarkson at present, Satterley, the developers, intend for the estate to eventually be re-gazetted as its own suburb.

Demographics
Mindarie has a unique demographic profile, compared to surrounding areas. At the 2006 census, 6,507 people were resident in Mindarie, up from 4,675 at the 2001 census. The population is predicted to continue growing at a steady pace, peaking at 9,782 in 2026. Of these, only 46.21% were born in Australia, compared to a national average of 70.9%. Mindarie contains a substantial British-born population of 31.27%, a disproportionately high figure compared to the surrounding coastal area, as well as the Australian national average of 5%. The median age of the suburb's residents was 36 years, in line with 37 for both the Perth region and Australia generally.

The predominant religious affiliation in Mindarie is Christianity, with 59.7% of residents declaring various Christian denominations. The only church in Mindarie is the Anglican Church of Australia in the suburb's north, in line with 31.2% of Mindarie residents declaring Anglicanism as their religion. Only 17.6% of the population declared no religion.

Mindarie is rated by the Australian Bureau of Statistics' 2006 SEIFA index as a higher socio-economic area, with an index of 1121 (95th percentile) for overall relative advantage/disadvantage. This is consistent with the median individual income of $586 per week and the median household income of $1,522 per week, both substantially higher than the metropolitan Perth average of $513 and $1,086 respectively. A much greater percentage of Mindarie's residents (19.4%) worked as technicians and trades workers compared to the regional average (16.0%), and the SEIFA data for education/occupation placed Mindarie in the 74th percentile.

Amenities and facilities

While Mindarie is a largely residential suburb, it does have a fairly large amount of infrastructure and amenities distributed at various points around the suburb. There are two minor shopping precincts in the northern and southern extremes of Mindarie, which include two service stations, various restaurants and take-away franchises (such as McDonald's and Red Rooster) and Basil's, an independent grocery store. Mindarie Keys Medical Centre, located in the south, provides medical care for the suburb's residents, as well as dental care and physiotherapy facilities. However, the large Ocean Keys Shopping Centre in Clarkson is situated adjacent to Mindarie on the other side of Marmion Avenue, catering to the suburb's residents for major commercial shopping needs and other public services.

Unlike the adjacent Quinns Rocks coastline, Mindarie's coastline is mostly taken up by the Mindarie Marina and its large harbour and breakwater. The marina itself has been a popular destination for tourism since its inception in the late 1980s. Along the boardwalk, the marina contains a three-storey hotel overlooking the harbour, two restaurants, a microbrewery and The Boat, a pub and restaurant. The Boat provides the majority of Mindarie's entertainment and nightlife.

Immediately south of the marina's breakwater is Claytons Beach, a small, unpatrolled beach that is a popular spot for surfers. The unoccupied bushland part of the beach, further south, runs through Tamala Park and into Burns Beach in the City of Joondalup. A vast number of parks and reserves are situated all around the suburb. Bellport Park contains tennis courts, while Lighthouse Park and Bellport Park both contain large, functional lighthouses. Along with the lime kilns in Coopers Park, they are considered local landmarks.

Telephone services are provided by the Mindarie & Quinns Rocks telephone exchanges. The former exchange is located in the south-east of Mindarie, on Rothesay Heights.

Education
Mindarie is home to one K-6 primary school, Mindarie Primary School, which caters to the entire suburb. Senior Mindarie students are primarily in the catchment area for Clarkson Community High School. Students are also in catchment for Mindarie Senior College, built in the north of Mindarie in 2003, but the college caters for Years 11-12 only and chiefly accommodates leaving students from nearby Kinross College Years 7–10.

Students in Mindarie also have the option of private Christian schools, of which the suburb has two - Peter Moyes Anglican Community School (established in 2000) and Quinns Baptist College (established in 1996.) Both schools take in students from Kindergarten to Year 12, and are located next to Mindarie Senior College in a strip along Mindarie's northern boundary.

Transport
Mindarie is linked to the rest of the Perth metropolitan area by Hester Avenue and Neerabup Road, which both interchange with the Mitchell Freeway and Wanneroo Road only a short drive to the east. The arterial highway Marmion Avenue also runs parallel to the freeway alongside Mindarie's suburb boundary, linking to Yanchep in the outer north.

Anchorage Drive South, Rothesay Heights and Bellport Parade act as the main backbone distributor roads throughout Mindarie. Anchorage Drive was initially planned as the suburb's singular arterial ring road, entering Mindarie from Marmion Avenue in the south, looping through the suburb and exiting back onto Marmion Avenue 2 kilometres further north. However, the Mindarie Keys Joint Venture later decided against fully completing the road due to the barrier it presented to inland residents, instead landscaping 700 metres of the reserved road as part of the adjacent Lighthouse Park. Although the landscaped parkland section is still gazetted as a road reserve, traffic studies performed on behalf of the City of Wanneroo in 2001 showed no need for the road to be completed.

Public transport
Mindarie is served by the 481 and 482 bus routes to Clarkson railway station, a hub that provides further bus and rail links to the nearby regional city of Joondalup, as well as the rest of the Perth metropolitan area. A deviation of the 481 also directly serves the marina on weekends.
 * 481 - Clarkson to Quinns Rocks (south) via Mindarie
 * 482 - Clarkson to Quinns Rocks (north) via Mindarie

Politics
Mindarie contains one polling booth at Mindarie Primary School. It was historically part of the electoral district of Wanneroo before becoming a member of Mindarie at the 2003 redistribution. It also forms the northern boundary of the federal Division of Moore.

Election results in Mindarie are unusual as they show strong support for the Liberal Party at both levels of government. This pattern is not shared by any of its neighbouring suburbs, such as Merriwa or Quinns Rocks, that consistently vote Liberal at federal elections and the Australian Labor Party at state elections. This is often attributed to Mindarie's reasonably affluent coastal part in the west, while the east is predominantly "mortgage belt" families, in line with other surrounding areas.

title: Mindarie, Western Australia


text:
Talk:Zoe Heriot

Untitled
Zoe's name is Zoe Heriot not Herriot so if I'm right this page should be moved.
 * It was originally spelled "Heriot" in David Whitaker's script for The Wheel in Space, but over the years the double-r spelling has stuck. She's listed with the double-r spelling in the BBC guide to the companions. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 14:00, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Lived on the Wheel all her life?
Do we have a source for the statement that she lived on the Wheel all her life? In The Mind Robber, she sees an illusion of her home and it's a city on Earth rather than the Wheel.

HungryHorace 16:54, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Zoe or Zoë?
I often watch the dvds with subtitles on and they nearly always put an umlaut in her name.

Didn't want to just edit without gaining a consensus. Villafancd (talk) 19:33, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Zoe Heriot


text:
Neerabup, Western Australia

Neerabup is a rural locality in Perth, the capital of Western Australia, within the local government area of the City of Wanneroo.

History
Prior to European settlement, the Noongar people had lived in the area for more than 40,000 years, taking advantage of the abundant food and water around the chain of wetlands on the coastal plain. In winter, they moved eastwards away from coastal weather, to return in summer as inland supplies dried up. The Mooro people (led by elder Yellagonga during the early years of European settlement) stretched from the Moore River near Guilderton to what is now the Perth central business district, and used to move between Lakes Joondalup, Neerabup and Yanchep.

In 1865, European settlers established the Aboriginal tracks as a stock route from Dongara to Fremantle, travelling along the west side of the lakes. Lake Neerabup was first recorded by surveyor J. Cowle in 1867, the name being a Noongar word which possibly means "swampy place" or "small basin". The part of the stock route between Joondalup and Yanchep is now part of the Yaberoo Budjara Heritage Trail, part of the Bicentennial Heritage Trails Network established in 1988.

The area was often spelled Neerabub, especially by postal and telecommunications authorities, until as recently as the 1960s. It was approved as a suburb name in 1982.

Geography
Neerabup is bounded by Wattle Avenue to the north, the proposed Mitchell Freeway to the west, Pinjar Road to the east and Flynn Drive and Burns Beach Road to the south.

Neerabup's population was not measured at the 2001 Australian census.

Facilities
Neerabup is a sparsely populated agricultural suburb. Several plant nurseries, a fruit and vegetable shop at Menchetti Road and the Neerabup Lake wetland are situated along Wanneroo Road. The western strip between Wanneroo Road and the proposed Mitchell Freeway is approximately the southern half of the Neerabup National Park. The area also contains a golf course, small wineries, a small industrial area on Flynn Drive and several sand and limestone quarries.

Motorsport
Neerabup is home to the Wanneroo Raceway, a 2.411 km (1.498 mi) road racing circuit. Wanneroo Raceway, which opened in 1969, is the home of motor racing in Western Australia and hosts an annual round of the Supercars Championship.

Neerabup is also home to the Pinjar Park Speedway which opened in 2005. Pinjar Park is a 142 m Motorcycle speedway which regularly hosts national and international meetings and caters to both senior and junior solo and sidecar racing. Pinjar Park is considered small for a speedway in Australia, with most tracks around the country ranging from 350 m to 600 m in length. For the bikes, the speedway replaced the old 550 m Claremont Speedway which had run from 1927 until 2000, and the Bibra Lake Speedway which closed in 2004.

Transport
Neerabup is not served by public transport. The nearest Transperth bus service is the 391 between Joondalup train station and Carramar 2 km to the south. These services are operated by Swan Transit.

Bus

 * 390 Joondalup Station to Banksia Grove – serves Burns Beach Road and Joondalup Drive
 * 391 Joondalup Station to Banksia Grove – serves Burns Beach Road, Joondalup Drive and Wanneroo Road
 * 467 and 468 Joondalup Station to Whitfords Station – serve Joondalup Drive

Rail

 * Joondalup Line
 * Clarkson Station

Politics
Neerabup's political leanings are unclear due to its small size and the lack of a polling booth. The nearest large booths tend to favour the Australian Labor Party historically, although most have been won by the Coalition in recent times, especially at federal level.

title: Neerabup, Western Australia


text:
Electoral district of Marrickville

Marrickville was an electoral district of the Legislative Assembly in the Australian state of New South Wales. It was an urban electorate in Sydney's inner west, centred on the suburb of Marrickville from which it took its name. At the time of its abolition it also included the suburbs of Camperdown, Darlington, Enmore, Lewisham, Newtown, Petersham, Stanmore and parts of Dulwich Hill and Erskineville as well as the University of Sydney.

The Marrickville electoral district was abolished prior to the 2015 state election, split between two new districts: Newtown and Summer Hill.

History
Multi-member constituencies were abolished in 1894 and the district was created, along with Newtown-Camperdown, Newtown-Erskine and Newtown-St Peters to replace the then four member electorate of Newtown.

Marrickville was one of the more left-leaning electorates in the Sydney area. It had traditionally been an ALP stronghold, but had become more competitive from the early 2000s, with the coming second and making the two-party preferred count. The Liberal Party did not feature in the final two-candidate count from 1991 to the seat’s final election in 2011, beaten in 1995 by the short lived single issue party No Aircraft Noise and after that by the Greens.

Labor first won the seat in 1910 in the person of Thomas Crawford. In 1916, he joined other pro-conscription Labor MPs in forming the Nationalist Party of Australia. Crawford was defeated in 1917 by Labor's Carlo Lazzarini, the first member of the NSW parliament with an Italian name. Lazzarini held it until the seat was abolished in 1920. He served for the next seven years in the multi-member electorate of Western Suburbs. Marrickville was recreated in 1927 with the reintroduction of single-member electorates. Lazzarini was reelected as the member for this seat, and held it until his death in 1952.

The seat was then held for twenty years by Norm Ryan, who for part of that time was Minister for Public Works and oversaw the building of the Sydney Opera House. After being elected 7 times, he stood aside for fellow ALP member Tom Cahill (the son of former premier Joseph Cahill), who held the seat until his death in 1983. The resulting by-election was won by Andrew Refshauge, who was the deputy premier from 4 April 1995 until his resignation on 10 August 2005. At the general election in 2003, Refshauge won with a 10.7% two party preferred majority over Greens candidate Colin Hesse. Refshauge's retirement in 2005 sparked another by-election on 17 September, held simultaneously with by-elections in Macquarie Fields and Maroubra. While the Liberal Party did not field a candidate, the ALP faced a strong challenger in the Deputy Mayor of Marrickville, Sam Byrne, running as a Greens candidate. The ALP subsequently drafted Education Minister Carmel Tebbutt, who was then a member of the Legislative Council, as their candidate, as she was seen to be the best chance of holding the seat. Despite Tebbutt's profile, she faced significant challenges from Byrne, but ultimately won out - although the Green vote was the highest in Australian history at that time. Tebbutt retained the seat in the 2007 and 2011 state elections, though her majority was successively reduced. Tebbutt was married to former Deputy Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, the member for the federal electorate of Grayndler; most of Marrickville is located in Grayndler.

title: Electoral district of Marrickville


text:
Talk:Mel Mermelstein

[Untitled]
Why does the newest version gets reverted by the vandals to the error-filled version?

--85.140.12.235 10:44, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

OK, I'll keep an eye on this page
Looks like some holocaust denier revised this page earlier today to a version with a very pro-denial POV. I have reverted his changes. I'm adding this page to my watchlist. Samboy 19:48, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * As an addition, the IP in question has distorted facts. I will only waste my time with one example: The IP claims that "The [$50,000] judgement does not state that Mermelstein provided sufficient evidence of gassings".  What the conveniently ignored is that the judgment states "the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944 [...] is not reasonably subject to dispute", . Samboy 20:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Anon, this directly contradicts your claim that "It is a common misconception that the Holocaust deniers were forced to pay the reward itself to Mermelstein. ..." ←Humus sapiens ну? 05:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous reply
Samboy:

And it looks like someone is not able to notice sensationalism and is quick to label people. One might therefore label you a Holocoust fanatic. "My" version of the page is something written by another user a year ago (see page history), and accurately describes the following point:

The trial was a breach of contract case concerning the gassings at Auschwitz, not the Holocaust as a whole. "Your" version claims the judge declared the Holocaust a legally incontestable fact, which is faking history and sensationalism. The judge, in fact, concluded the following:

 * "Under Evidence Code Section 452(h) this Court does take judicial notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944."

While I do agree "my" version is highly critical in presenting the facts, "your" version is highly sensational.

Perhaps you're troubled with the fact that the original author points to a disrepherence in Mr. Mermelsteins' claims concerning a tunnel that never existed? Nevertheless, it is the truth, and should not be censored. In my opinion, Mr. Mermelsteins' testimony did little to prove his claim, as he never saw the gassings themselves, which is also accurately portrayed in "my" version. It was common knowledge that really proved his claim.

If you wish to edit the page to a more neutral point of view, you're free to do so, but falsifying content and censoring disrepherences in testimony only makes me think you might be a Holocaust fanatic.

As per your complaint:

 * As an addition, the IP in question has distorted facts. I will only waste my time with one example: The IP claims that "The [$50,000] judgement does not state that Mermelstein provided sufficient evidence of gassings".  What the conveniently ignored is that the judgment states "the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944 [...] is not reasonably subject to dispute", . Samboy 20:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

How does the judgement that "the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944 [...] is not reasonably subject to dispute" state that Mr. Mermelstein provided sufficient evidence of gassings?!? If anything, it clearly indicates the judgement was based on common knowledge, and not Mr. Mermelsteins' testimony. This, of course, does not neccessarily mean that the Holocoust did or did not happen, as you're fanatically trying to prove; it just means what I said above.

Humus sapiens:

You are correct.

To whoever completely removed the history:

Something in there you don't like?

For instance, the other version reveals it is highly dubious whether or not Mr. Mermelstein himself provided sufficient evidence. As I said above, this indicates it was not his testimony per se that proved his case.

Also, did you find that excerpts from Mr. Mermelsteins' testimony are fakes, or did you just not like what they indicated and so deleted any trace of them?

I also notice that you changed "declared the Holocaust a legally incontestable fact" to "Auschwitz during the Holocaust declared a legally incontestable fact", as was in the other version, while leaving no trace that it was the other version which was correct about this issue. How very sad.

 * Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately. In WP:RS: "Widely acknowledged extremist organizations [...] should be used only as primary sources; that is, they should only be used in articles about those organizations [...] and their activities, and even then should be used with caution".  The IHR is an extremist organization.  Samboy 16:31, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Unsupported claims
Humus Sapiens, Mermelstein's own book, By Bread Alone, page 277 directly contradicts the claim that his notarized account of his internment at Auschwitz states he witnessed "his mother and two sisters towards (as he learned later) gas chamber number five". It clearly states he witnessed "a column of women and children being driven into the tunnel that lead into the gas chambers," which he "later determined to be gas chamber number 5".

By Bread Alone, page 280, directly contradicts the claim that the IHR refused to pay the reward.

The final ruling was clearly not made on October 9, 1981.

This directly contradicts the claim that the IHR had to pay Mermelstein "$50,000, plus $40,000 for personal suffering", as clearly no specific reason is given for the sums listed.

The claim that "Holocaust revisionists have subsequently claimed that the proof offered by Mermelstein was "never released to the public," implying that it had been sealed by the court or otherwise kept secret." cannot be verified, as no source for this claim is given.

The judicial notice clearly contradicts the claim that the court took judicial notice of the Holocaust as a whole.

The Mazal Library article clearly shows Crematorium 5 is an above-ground building, same as stated in the IHR publication. Any resonable person should be able to verify this from multiple sources.

195.29.133.237 03:42, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

DOB
There is a reason I added this link: This is the only source on the web where I found the exact place and date of birth. Despite other opinions in the file I judge this to be a reliable source. Please reinstate unless you see another source. Mhym 20:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * History and 'Memory', by Theodore J. O'Keefe

The Institute for Historical Review (so called) is absolutely the definition of what is NOT a "reliable source". Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 20:55, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Mermelstein picture
Even a casual reading of this Talk section will show that, incredibly, in 2016 Holocaust deniers still try to undermine Mermelstein's veracity. I just noticed that somebody added to the iconic picture of Mermelstein in Elie Wiesel's bunk in the camp, that it is "reportedly" Mel Mermelstein. "Reportedly?" Well, that's a new one. In 1977 or 78 I helped Mel (whose second language was English) write the first draft of Mermelstein's autobiography, which eventually became his book. Perhaps you can't tell from pictures of Mel now, but forty years ago there was no question that the picture was of the man sitting with me, writing. I also heard many circumstantial details Mel remembered about them taking the picture, as we put together the first draft of the book. Finally, Mermelstein and Wiesel have been friends now for seventy years. Would Nobel Prize winner Wiesel have been friends with, would he even have tolerated some imposter claiming to share the glory of being in the most famous Holocaust picture with him? Come on. It's all too familiar a tactic from the Holocaust deniers. Whoever inserted that "reportedly" is doing the same endless nibbling at Mermelstein, trying to impugn his veracity. One thought they'd finally give up. Now I wonder what they'll try to do with the Holocaust once the eyewitnesses like Mermelstein (89 now) are no longer with us, confronting them. Profhum (talk) 07:45, 28 June 2016 (UTC)Profhum (talk) 23:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Can you please explain to us why Simon Toncman [the man standing by the post] is absent in the version of the photo published on the cover of all three editions [1979, 1981 revised, 1991] of Mr. Mermelstein's memoirs By Bread Alone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.152.180 (talk) 00:29, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Happy to. Extensive discussion of the picture: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2016/07/the-denier-logic-at-its-finest-famous.html Profhum (talk) 23:49, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Mel Mermelstein


text:
Pearsall, Western Australia

Pearsall is a suburb of Perth, Western Australia in the City of Wanneroo. Until the late 1990s it was the southernmost part of the suburb of Wanneroo.

Local parks

 * Covert Park (10 Busch Pkwy)
 * Salitage Park (5 Salitage Link)
 * Willespie Park (62 Willespie Dr)
 * Voyager Park (2 Voyager Link)
 * Ashbrook Park (42 Ashbrook Ave)

Education

 * Pearsall Primary School. Kindergarten through to Year 6. (95 Willespie Dr)

Businesses
There is one main shopping complex in Pearsall, Pearsall Shopping Center. The complex consists of Pearsall IGA, Pearsall IGA Deli, Great Kitchen Chinese Restaurant, Celebrations at Pearsall, Pearsall Medical Center, CK's Fish Cafe and Pearsall Pharmacy.

Bus

 * 389 Wanneroo to Perth Busport – serves Wanneroo Road
 * 467 Whitfords Station to Joondalup Station – serves East Road, Archer Street, Kemp Street and Brooklyn Avenue
 * 468 Whitfords Station to Joondalup Station – serves Wanneroo Road

title: Pearsall, Western Australia


text:
Recursive Bayesian estimation

In probability theory, statistics, and machine learning, recursive Bayesian estimation, also known as a Bayes filter, is a general probabilistic approach for estimating an unknown probability density function (PDF) recursively over time using incoming measurements and a mathematical process model. The process relies heavily upon mathematical concepts and models that are theorized within a study of prior and posterior probabilities known as Bayesian statistics.

In robotics
A Bayes filter is an algorithm used in computer science for calculating the probabilities of multiple beliefs to allow a robot to infer its position and orientation. Essentially, Bayes filters allow robots to continuously update their most likely position within a coordinate system, based on the most recently acquired sensor data. This is a recursive algorithm. It consists of two parts: prediction and innovation. If the variables are normally distributed and the transitions are linear, the Bayes filter becomes equal to the Kalman filter.

In a simple example, a robot moving throughout a grid may have several different sensors that provide it with information about its surroundings. The robot may start out with certainty that it is at position (0,0). However, as it moves farther and farther from its original position, the robot has continuously less certainty about its position; using a Bayes filter, a probability can be assigned to the robot's belief about its current position, and that probability can be continuously updated from additional sensor information.

Model
The measurements $$z$$ are the manifestations of a hidden Markov model (HMM), which means the true state $$x$$ is assumed to be an unobserved Markov process. The following picture presents a Bayesian network of a HMM.

Because of the Markov assumption, the probability of the current true state given the immediately previous one is conditionally independent of the other earlier states.

 * $$p(\textbf{x}_k|\textbf{x}_{k-1},\textbf{x}_{k-2},\dots,\textbf{x}_0) = p(\textbf{x}_k|\textbf{x}_{k-1} )$$

Similarly, the measurement at the k-th timestep is dependent only upon the current state, so is conditionally independent of all other states given the current state.

 * $$p(\textbf{z}_k|\textbf{x}_k,\textbf{x}_{k-1},\dots,\textbf{x}_{0}) = p(\textbf{z}_k|\textbf{x}_{k} )$$

Using these assumptions the probability distribution over all states of the HMM can be written simply as

 * $$p(\textbf{x}_0,\dots,\textbf{x}_k,\textbf{z}_1,\dots,\textbf{z}_k) = p(\textbf{x}_0)\prod_{i=1}^k p(\textbf{z}_i|\textbf{x}_i)p(\textbf{x}_i|\textbf{x}_{i-1}).$$

However, when using the Kalman filter to estimate the state x, the probability distribution of interest is associated with the current states conditioned on the measurements up to the current timestep. (This is achieved by marginalising out the previous states and dividing by the probability of the measurement set.)

This leads to the predict and update steps of the Kalman filter written probabilistically. The probability distribution associated with the predicted state is the sum (integral) of the products of the probability distribution associated with the transition from the (k - 1)-th timestep to the k-th and the probability distribution associated with the previous state, over all possible $$x_{k-1}$$.

 * $$ p(\textbf{x}_k|\textbf{z}_{1:k-1}) = \int p(\textbf{x}_k | \textbf{x}_{k-1}) p(\textbf{x}_{k-1} | \textbf{z}_{1:k-1} ) \, d\textbf{x}_{k-1} $$

The probability distribution of update is proportional to the product of the measurement likelihood and the predicted state.
 * $$ p(\textbf{x}_k|\textbf{z}_{1:k}) = \frac{p(\textbf{z}_k|\textbf{x}_k) p(\textbf{x}_k|\textbf{z}_{1:k-1})}{p(\textbf{z}_k|\textbf{z}_{1:k-1})} \propto p(\textbf{z}_k|\textbf{x}_k) p(\textbf{x}_k|\textbf{z}_{1:k-1})

$$

The denominator
 * $$p(\textbf{z}_k|\textbf{z}_{1:k-1}) = \int p(\textbf{z}_k|\textbf{x}_k) p(\textbf{x}_k|\textbf{z}_{1:k-1}) d\textbf{x}_{k}$$

is constant relative to $$x$$, so we can always substitute it for a coefficient $$\alpha$$, which can usually be ignored in practice. The numerator can be calculated and then simply normalized, since its integral must be unity.

Applications

 * Kalman filter, a recursive Bayesian filter for multivariate normal distributions
 * Particle filter, a sequential Monte Carlo (SMC) based technique, which models the PDF using a set of discrete points
 * Grid-based estimators, which subdivide the PDF into a deterministic discrete grid

Sequential Bayesian filtering
Sequential Bayesian filtering is the extension of the Bayesian estimation for the case when the observed value changes in time. It is a method to estimate the real value of an observed variable that evolves in time.

There are several variations:
 * filtering: when estimating the current value given past and current observations,
 * smoothing: when estimating past values given past and current observations, and
 * prediction: when estimating a probable future value given past and current observations.

The notion of Sequential Bayesian filtering is extensively used in control and robotics.

title: Recursive Bayesian estimation


text:
Pinjar, Western Australia

Pinjar is a rural locality in Perth, Western Australia. Its local government area is the City of Wanneroo.

History
The suburb of Pinjar is named after the large swampy lake of this name located north east of Wanneroo. The lake name is shown on government plans from 1868, and the name is of Noongar origin. The meaning of Pinjar is unknown, but could be "tadpole" or "swampy lake".

Geography
Pinjar is bounded by Pinjar Road/Old Yanchep Road to the west and Neaves Road to the south. Its northern and eastern boundaries are not gazetted.

Facilities
Pinjar is a sparsely populated agricultural suburb, most of which is pine plantation and wetland. At the 2006 Australian census, Pinjar had a population of 78 people living in 39 dwellings. It was not measured in 2011. Pinjar Road is also everywhere.

Motorsport
Pinjar is home to the Wanneroo Raceway, a 2.411 km (1.498 mi) road racing circuit. The raceway which opened in 1969, is the home of motor racing in Western Australia and hosts an annual round of the Supercars Championship.

Pinjar is also home to the Pinjar Park Speedway, which opened in 2005. Pinjar Park is a 142 m motorcycle speedway, and regularly hosts national and international meetings and caters to both senior and junior solo and sidecar racing. Pinjar Park is considered small for a speedway in Australia, with most tracks around the country ranging from 350 m to 600 m in length. For the bikes, the speedway replaced the old 550 m Claremont Speedway, which had run from 1927 until 2000, and the Bibra Lake Speedway which closed in 2004.

title: Pinjar, Western Australia


text:
Quinns Rocks, Western Australia

Quinns Rocks is an outer coastal suburb of Perth, Western Australia, located 38 km north of Perth's central business district. It is part of the City of Wanneroo local government area. The suburb was formally established in 1962 as a rural townsite, focused around Quinns Beach, the area's main amenity.

Geography
Quinns Rocks is bounded by Mindarie to the south (Quinns Road), Merriwa and Butler to the east (Marmion Avenue) and Jindalee to the north (Hampshire Drive). To the west is the Indian Ocean and the coastline of Quinns Beach, which straddles the whole length of the suburb.

Name
The suburb takes its name from the offshore reef first noted during a coastline traverse by Assistant Surveyor James Cowle in 1867. Cowle was continuing a survey begun by Robert Quin, who had reached a spot about 4 km south-east of the rocks in 1866. Although the modern-day name is spelt with a double "n", the rocks are thought to have been named after Quin, who emigrated to Western Australia in 1863, where he was appointed as an Assistant Surveyor on his arrival. He occupied this position for 22 years, carrying out most of his surveys in the Gingin-Moore River area, until his death in July 1886. The general area on the coast opposite the rocks was referred to as Quinns Rocks by the Wanneroo Road Board when they requested the survey of a road that led there in November 1925. Later, the place also came to be called "Wanneroo Beach".

An alternate namesake is Mick Quinn, a sheep tender who worked for the Mindarie Pastoral Company in the early 1900s.

Residential development
In 1930, the whole beachfront came under the control of the Wanneroo Road Board, which issued "boatshed and campsite permits" to holidaymakers at a rental of $4.20 per annum. Early shack owners were restricted to no more than 48 hours in their shacks at one time without further permission from the Road Board. The first permanent residents appear to have been in 1942. The caravan park was built at the south end here in 1946. Mr L.G. Leppinus, formerly of Merredin, was one of the seven original shack owners at this site; he had to move his shack three times because of extensive erosion. Shack owners put down their own bores and usually ran on pan system toilets. During the 1950s, an increasing number of shacks lined the ocean front. Leasing of the beachfront reserve was phased out towards the end of that decade. Shack owners were told they had to remove their shacks, but were given first right of refusal for blocks on the ocean front - the going rate was approximately 400 pounds (A$800).

In 1958, Lot 223 was purchased and subdivided the following year. Four applications to build were approved in March 1959 and a major sale on 10 June saw nearly 300 blocks purchased. The subdivision was extended northwards in the early 1960s and Quinns Rocks was declared a townsite under the Local Government Act on 27 July 1962. Further extensions took place in 1964 and 1972. The locality encompassing this local government townsite, gazetted as "Quinns" in 1974 for future postal services, was changed to Quinns Rocks in 1977, so as to coincide with the townsite name.

The beachfront area comprising the original townsite of Quinns, up until the 1990s, is colloquially known as "Old Quinns". The area is characterized by rolling hills and roads, overhead power lines on wooden poles, few pavements and many unique houses with distinct architectural designs dating from the 1960s and 1970s. Most of this area still relies on septic tanks for waste management rather than a linked sewerage system, although infill sewerage works are scheduled in future.

Norfolk Estate was built in Quinns Rocks much later in the early 1990s in the area east of Tapping Way. It is distinguished from "Old Quinns" by underground power lines, cul-de-sac street systems and modern bungalow housing. The estate also contains a higher concentration of public housing.

The final part of Quinns, known simply as "Quinns Beach", was the last portion of the area to be developed, and borders Jindalee in the north.

Demographics
Quinns Rocks had a population of 7,991 at the 2006 census, an increase of over 1,988 residents since the 2001 census. The population is predicted to continue growing in the future, albeit at a slow pace. Only 57.7% of Quinns Rocks residents were born in Australia, compared to 70.9% nationally. All major immigrant groups in Quinns are from Anglophone countries (e.g. United Kingdom, South Africa, New Zealand) with 19.7% of the population born in the UK, a roughly averarage proportion compared to the nearby suburbs.

Quinns residents are generally young, with a median age of 31 compared to 37 nationally. Income levels are also substantially above the national average, with an average household income of $1,245 per week, compared to $1,171 per week nationally.

47.3% of residents identified as Christian, through various Christian denominations, the most populous being Anglicanism at 24.2%. Two churches in southern Quinns serve the Christian population: the Anglican Church of Australia and Northside Baptist Church. 26.7% declared no religion.

Amenities and facilities
The major attraction of Quinns Rocks is Quinns Beach, which spans the entire western boundary of the suburb along Ocean Drive, one of the area's main backbone roads. The beach contains barbecue facilities and children's play areas for families, as well as a dedicated dog beach further north, for dog-walkers. A beachside cafe and bottle shop are situated on Ocean Drive. The beach is also home to the clubrooms of the Quinns Mindarie Surf Lifesaving Club, who have patrolled the beach since the club's foundation in 1982.

There are over ten large parks and reserves scattered throughout Quinns Rocks. Many of these parks share an abundance of sporting facilities for residents, such as the Quinns Rocks Bowling Club, the Quinns Rocks Skate Park and the Gumblossom Tennis Courts. The tennis courts are located at Gumblossom Park, the site of the Gumblossom Community Centre, which provides for most community functions and gatherings in the suburb.

Quinns Rocks is largely residential, relying on Clarkson and the nearby city of Joondalup for major commercial and public services. Nonetheless, it does have the Quinns Village Shopping Centre, a small shopping precinct in the south-east. Located here is an IGA supermarket, serving as the suburb's main shopping centre for groceries, as well as a licensed post office and newsagent, a pharmacy, a bottleshop and a petrol station.

A majority of the area's telephone services are provided by the Quinns Rocks telephone exchange, located in the extreme south of the suburb along Quinns Road. The remaining one-third of houses in the suburb's north are provided for by the Jindalee telephone exchange, located in adjacent suburb Butler to the north-east on Marmion Avenue.

Education
Quinns Rocks contains two K-6 primary schools - Quinns Rocks Primary School and Quinns Beach Primary School, located in the southern and northern extremes of the suburb respectively. Senior Quinns Rocks students fall into Clarkson Community High School, Butler College and Kinross High School catchment area.

There are a number of other senior colleges in close proximity to the area for Quinns students, including Mindarie Senior College, Peter Moyes Anglican Community School and Quinns Baptist College, which all straddle the Mindarie-Quinns southern boundary.

Transport
Quinns Rocks is serviced by road through Marmion Avenue, a major north-south arterial road linking the suburb to the rest of the Perth metropolitan area to the south, as well as the far outer suburb of Yanchep in the north. Quinns Road formerly linked the suburb directly to Wanneroo Road in the east, but the road east of Quinns Rocks was split and realigned as Hester Avenue.

There are three main, backbone distributor roads throughout Quinns. Quinns Road/Ocean Drive follows the entire southern and western perimeter of the suburb along the coastline. Tapping Way broadly divides Old Quinns and the Norfolk Estate in an approximately south-eastern to north-western manner, while Santa Barbara Parade strictly serves the eastern, inland part of the suburb.

Public transport
Clarkson railway station serves as the nearest major transport hub to Quinns, providing rail links to Joondalup and Perth's central business district. Two bus routes serve the area, running from Clarkson station through to different parts of Quinns.
 * 481 - Clarkson to Quinns Rocks (south) via Mindarie
 * 482 - Clarkson to Quinns Rocks (north) via Mindarie

Politics
Quinns Rocks has one polling booth at Quinns Rocks Primary School. There were initially two polling booths in the area, at Gumblossom Community Centre and Quinns Beach Primary School, but these were amalgamated into one for the 2008 state election. The suburb was formerly part of the electoral district of Wanneroo before becoming a member of Mindarie at the 2003 redistribution. It also forms the southern boundary of the federal Division of Pearce.

Like many neighbouring "mortgage belt" suburbs, Quinns residents support the Australian Labor Party at state level, while voting for the Liberal Party at federal level. The Liberal Party has consistently enjoyed a margin of approximately 20% more votes than the ALP at federal elections since 2004. A characteristic of residents' votes in Quinns is their support for The Greens, which has been constantly increasing at each election.

title: Quinns Rocks, Western Australia


text:
Ridgewood, Western Australia

Ridgewood is an outer suburb of Perth, Western Australia, located 37 kilometres north of Perth's central business district. It is part of the City of Wanneroo local government area.

It is primarily made up of single dwellings on blocks ranging from 220m2 up to 800m2 (primarily around the 500m2 mark) with occasional duplex or battle axe block developments.

Geography
Ridgewood is bordered to the north by Butler (Lukin Drive), to the south by Clarkson (Hester Avenue) and to the west by Merriwa (Connolly Drive). The Mitchell Freeway separates Ridgewood from the rural locality of Nowergup in the east.

History
Ridgewood's name refers to the wooded terrain on the Swan Coastal Plain. The suburb was formerly a part of Merriwa until 1998, when Merriwa was split in two along Connolly Drive. The eastern half of Merriwa was gazetted as Ridgewood. At the time, only south Ridgewood was populated, containing the "Carnegie Private Estate" that was built in the mid-1990s. The estate had a population of 968.

There were campaigns for Ridgewood's separation from Merriwa as far back as 1994, not long after the Carnegie Estate had been built by developers Town and Country Holdings. The developers lodged a request with the City of Wanneroo to bifurcate the area from Merriwa and rename the new locality "Carnegie", after the estate, which in turn was named in honour of David Carnegie, one of the earliest explorers of Western Australia. Although the request was rejected, the City supported the excision of the estate from Merriwa, leading to the creation of Ridgewood four years later.

The northern half of Ridgewood, "The Vistas", is a new development by Satterley, marketed as a part of the "Brighton Estate" that covers the adjoining suburbs of Butler and Jindalee.

Demographics
Ridgewood had a population of 1,292 at the 2006 census, an increase of 324 since the 2001 census. The population is predicted to grow exponentially, peaking at 5,903 in 2016. The demographics of Ridgewood's residents are similar to Merriwa, with the same average age of 33 (compared to 37 nationally) and income levels slightly below the national average.

Like all surrounding suburbs, Christianity is the predominant religious affiliation of Ridgewood's residents, accounting for 48.5% of the population across various Christian denominations. However, the suburb contains no churches but does have a Kingdom Hall for Jehovah's Witnesses. 27.4% declared no religion.

Amenities and facilities
Ridgewood is primarily a residential suburb, with a BP service station in its south-west and almost no other facilities or retail establishments. However, it is positioned directly in between the suburbs of Butler, Merriwa and Clarkson, which all contain a sizeable number of shops and services that Ridgewood residents rely on, including the large Ocean Keys Shopping Centre in Clarkson.

As with neighbouring suburbs, Ridgewood contains several parks. Ridgewood Park in the south-west is the largest by area, and contains a sports pitch and a large pond.

Telephone services are provided by the Quinns Rocks telephone exchange.

Education
The West Coast Language Development Centre is the only education establishment in Ridgewood, one of five schools in Western Australia that serve language-disabled children.

The nearest K–6 primary school to Ridgewood is Merriwa Primary School. Senior Ridgewood students fall into the Clarkson Community High School catchment area.

Transport
The Mitchell Freeway forms the suburb's eastern boundary, with interchanges at Lukin Drive and Hester Avenue. Hester Avenue, in the south of Ridgewood, also links to Marmion Avenue and Wanneroo Road. Connolly Drive runs along Ridgewood's western boundary and provides a road link into Joondalup and the Mitchell Freeway.

The area is served by the 484 bus route to Clarkson railway station, the nearest major transport hub, providing rail and bus links to Joondalup and Perth.

 * 484 - Clarkson to Butler (east) via Ridgewood

Politics
Ridgewood's political leanings are unclear due to its diminutive population and lack of specified polling booth. The nearest booth in Merriwa tends to favour the Australian Labor Party at state level, while voting Liberal Party at federal level.

Like Merriwa, the suburb is part of the Electoral district of Butler at state level, and the Division of Pearce at federal level.

Wildlife
There are many birds in this suburb, namely crows, magpies and different species of parrots.

title: Ridgewood, Western Australia


text:
User talk:Darxide

Welcome to Wikipedia!
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If you feel a change is needed, feel free to make it yourself! Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone (yourself included) can edit any article by following the  link. Wikipedia convention is to be bold and not be afraid of making mistakes. If you're not sure how editing works, have a look at How to edit a page, or try out the Sandbox to test your editing skills.

If, for some reason, you are unable to fix a problem yourself, feel free to ask someone else to do it. Wikipedia has a vibrant community of contributors who have a wide range of skills and specialties, and many of them would be glad to help. As well as the wiki community pages there are IRC Channels, where you are more than welcome to ask for assistance.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me on my talk page. Thanks and happy editing, Alphax τεχ 13:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Darxide


text:
Association of Supervisory Staffs, Executives and Technicians

The Association of Supervisory Staffs, Executives and Technicians (ASSET), was a British trade union, chiefly representing supervisors in the metal working and transport industries. It was formed from the National Foremen's Association, founded in 1918.

History
In 1929 the National Foremen's Association merged with the Amalgamated Managers' and Foremen's Association, which was active in the mining industry. In 1942 the union changed its name to the Association of Supervisory Staff and Engineering Technicians and in 1946 it changed again to the Association of Supervisory Staff, Executives and Technicians.

In 1969 ASSET merged with the AScW (the Association of Scientific Workers) to form ASTMS (The Association of Scientific, Technical and Managerial Staffs).

ASSET's final General Secretary was Clive Jenkins.

Election results
The union sponsored Labour Party candidates at two general elections, and both were elected.

General Secretaries

 * 1918: H. W. Reid
 * 1939: Tom W. Agar
 * 1945: Bob Bretherton
 * 1946: Harry Knight
 * 1960: Clive Jenkins


text:
Sinagra, Western Australia

Sinagra is an outer northern suburb of Perth, Western Australia, located within the City of Wanneroo.

This suburb, formerly part of the suburb of Wanneroo, is named after the Sinagra family, migrants from Italy who arrived in the Wanneroo area in the 1920s. The City of Wanneroo established a sister city relationship with Sinagra, Sicily as a large number of families migrated from there to make a new home in Wanneroo. Sam Sinagra owned a shop in Wanneroo, and the family were prominent citizens. The suburb name was approved on 3 April 1995.

Transport
There are no bus routes directly serving the centre of the suburb. However, routes 467 and 468 operate along the western edge on Wanneroo Road, while routes 389 and 467 also operate along the southern edge on Dundebar Road.

Bus

 * 389 Wanneroo to Perth Busport – serves Dundebar Road
 * 467 Joondalup Station to Whitfords Station – serves Wanneroo Road and Dundebar Road
 * 468 Joondalup Station to Whitfords Station – serves Wanneroo Road

title: Sinagra, Western Australia


text:
New Rhodes

New Rhodes were a British indie-pop four-piece. The band was formed in 2001 when James, Joe and Jack were students together at college. During their early years the band were based in their hometown Bristol but moved to Hackney, London in 2004.

Career
The band regularly toured the UK and Europe, and tours with the likes of Razorlight, Bloc Party, The Dears, Delays, Hope of the States, The Killers and The Futureheads. helped build a loyal fan base and community.

They put out seven singles and two albums. Released through Moshi Moshi Records (Hot Chip, Kate Nash, Florence And The Machine, Tom Vek and Architecture in Helsinki) and their own label Salty Cat Records.

In 2005 their second single, "You've Given Me Something That I Can't Give Back", made the UK Top 40, charting at number 38 and In 2006 the band won a 'Vodafone Live Music Award'.

Their line-up was finalised in the summer of 2006 after Desmond became their fourth drummer. Previous drummers included Dave Hounsome (2001-2002), Chun Leek (2002-2003), and Steve Bishop (2003-2006). During their career the band worked with major producers and directors including Paul Epworth, James Ford, Ian Grimble, Rich Wilkinson and Matthias Hoene.

In spring 2010 the band decided to split, playing their final gig at the Fleece & Firkin, Bristol – the same venue they played their first gig in 2001.

Members

 * James Williams - Vocals/Guitar
 * Joe Gascoigne - Guitar
 * Jack Ashdown - Bass/Vocals
 * Tim Desmond - Drums/Vocals

Past members:
 *  Steve Bishop - Drums
 *  Chun Leek - Drums
 *  Dave Hounsome - Drums

Discography

 * "The Life Story of Nelson Scamp" [EP] - CD, Self-released 2002
 * "I Wish I Was You" [Single] - CD + 7", Moshi Moshi 2004
 * "You've Given Me Something That I Can't Give Back" [Single] - CD + 7", Moshi Moshi 2005
 * "From The Beginning" [Single] - CD + 7", Moshi Moshi 2005
 * "EP" U.S. EP] - CD, So Sweet 2006
 * "The History of Britain" [Single] - CD + 7", Salty Cat 2006
 * Songs from the Lodge [Album] - CD, Salty Cat 2006
 * "Everybody Loves a Scene" [Single] - CD, Salty Cat Records 2009
 * "The Joys Of Finding And Losing That Girl" [Single] - 7", Salty Cat Records 2009
 * Everybody Loves a Scene [Album] - CD, Salty Cat Records 2009
 * "Quando Quando Quando" [Single] - CD, Salty Cat Records 2010

Press clippings

 * "Thrilling dancefloor burning stuff" - NME
 * "Startlingly fresh and utterly absorbing ... our jaws dropped" - Logo
 * "If the demise of painfully hip indie rock has left a void in your world, look no further than New Rhodes ... all the tunes and talent of Casablancas and Co without the pretension. ... So cool it hurts and they don't even know it" - Rocksound
 * "Reminds you why you first fell in love with singles" - Sunday Times - Culture Section
 * "Great songs that make the Ordinary Boys look ordinary 5/5" - Zoo
 * "Perfectly illustrates why we tipped them for stardom way back at the start of the year" - NME

title: New Rhodes


text:
Tamala Park, Western Australia

Tamala Park is an unpopulated locality in Perth, Western Australia. It sits on the border between the City of Wanneroo and the City of Joondalup local authorities, and separates the Clarkson-Butler region from the suburbs of Joondalup.

History
The Mooro group of Noongar were familiar with the area, and several of their traditional stories and legends refer to local Tamala Park land features, such as Waukolup Hill, although evidence suggests that they lived much further east, closer to modern-day Wanneroo Road.

The suburb was formally established by excision of parts of Mindarie, Clarkson and Burns Beach on 9 September 1988.

Present use
At present, Tamala Park is mostly unoccupied bushland, primarily used as a landfill and recycling centre. Two arterial roads, Marmion Avenue and Connolly Drive, run through it and link the suburbs on each side. It is a large locality, extending from the Joondalup railway line in the east, to the coast of the Indian Ocean, where it leads onto Burns Beach to the south and Claytons Beach in Mindarie to the north.

Tamala Park is in the process of being developed. The Tamala Park Regional Council (TPRC) was established to develop 165 ha of land in the Tamala Park locality. The Council comprises 12 councillors representing the 7 owner councils that make up the TPRC as follows:

 * Town of Cambridge
 * City of Joondalup
 * City of Perth
 * City of Stirling
 * City of Wanneroo
 * Town of Victoria Park
 * City of Vincent

Tamala Park is the 10th regional and 154th local government council to be established by proclamation in the Government Gazette in February 2006.

Bus

 * 474 Clarkson Station to Joondalup Station – serves Marmion Avenue

title: Tamala Park, Western Australia


text:
Tapping, Western Australia

Tapping is a suburb of Perth, Western Australia, located within the City of Wanneroo. It came into being in the early 1990s as a subdivision of Wanneroo, originally as part of the Carramar estate.

Tapping was chosen as the suburb name in honour of an early settler family in the Wanneroo area. William Tapping arrived in 1886 and Molly and Dolly Tapping were long time postmistresses in Wanneroo. The name for the suburb was approved in 1997.

Geography
Tapping is bounded by Joondalup Drive to the north, Pinjar Road to the east, Conti Road to the south, and Wanneroo Road to the west.

Demographics
In the, Tapping had a population of 8,946, an increase in comparison to the 2001 census, which had the population at 229. This increase can be directly attributed to continued housing development within the suburb on previously undeveloped land previously used for farming and horticulture activities. The median age of Tapping residents was 30, and median individual incomes were $831 per week. 0.8% of the population identified themselves as Indigenous persons.

The most common religious affiliation was "No Religion" (25.3%}; the next most common responses were Anglican (23.7%), Catholic (22.0%), and Uniting Church (3.6%).

Education
Tapping contains one private school, St Stephen's School, Carramar Campus, an extension of the original St Stephens School in Duncraig. The school supports both primary and secondary education. Tapping also has two public schools: Tapping Primary School, which opened at the start of 2007, and Spring Hill Primary School, which opened in 2011. Both schools provide education from Kindergarten through to Year 6.

Tapping does not contain a public high school. High school studies are provided through Wanneroo Senior High School and Kinross College.

Transport
The suburb is served by bus routes which provide connections to the Joondalup Line via either the Whitfords or Joondalup railway stations.

Bus

 * 390 Joondalup Station to Banksia Grove – serves Wanneroo Road, Clarkson Avenue, Yandella Promenade and Pinjar Road
 * 467 Joondalup Station to Whitfords Station – serves Joondalup Drive, Waldburg Drive and Carosa Road
 * 468 Joondalup Station to Whitfords Station – serves Wanneroo Road

2023 fire
The suburb was seriously affected by the 2023 Wanneroo bushfire.

title: Tapping, Western Australia