text:
2005 Bangladesh bombings

On 17 August 2005, around 500 bomb explosions occurred at 300 locations in 63 out of the 64 districts of Bangladesh. The bombs exploded within a half-hour period starting from 11:30 am. A terrorist organization, Jama'atul Mujahideen Bangladesh (JMB) claimed responsibility for the bombings. The group, led by Shaykh Abdur Rahman and Siddiqur Rahman (also known as Bangla Bhai). Another terrorist group, named Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami, was associated with JMB in executing the co-ordinated attack. Following the bombings, both groups were banned by the BNP Government of Bangladesh.

Attacks
The bomb exploded near Government facilities. In Dhaka, they exploded near Bangladesh Secretariat, the Supreme Court Complex, the Prime Minister's Office, the Dhaka University campus, the Dhaka Sheraton Hotel and Zia International Airport. At least 115 people were injured when 500 small bombs were exploded in 63 out of 64 districts of Bangladesh. The explosion killed two people (a child in Savar, near Dhaka, and a rickshaw-puller in Chapai Nawabganj District), and injured a further 50.

Victims

 * Rickshaw driver Rabiul Islam was injured when seven bombs exploded at about 11:10am at Biswa Road crossing near Shah Neamatullah College in the Nawabganj. He died on way to Rajshahi Medical College Hospital.
 * Schoolboy Abdus Salam, who was 10 was injured when bomb exploded outside his house in Savar. He died in the hospital.

Trials
The main perpetrators of the bombing, Bangla Bhai and Shaykh Abdur Rahman, were arrested by the police and the Rapid Action Battalion in early March 2006 during the BNP led government. They were convicted for their involvement in the November 2005 suicide bombing that killed two judges, were sentenced to death, and were executed by hanging on 29 March 2007.

Five suspects were sentenced to death and one to 20 years in prison for their part in the bomb attacks in Bogra. By 2013, 200 cases out of 273 cases filed in connection with 2005 Bangladesh bombings have been disposed of. Different courts have sentenced 58 people to death; 150 were sentenced to life in prison and 300 others were sentenced to various terms in prisons.

Reactions

 * Motiur Rahman Nizami, the then industry minister, from Jamaat-e-Islami blamed India for the blast.
 * Moudud Ahmed, the then law minister, from Bangladesh Nationalist Party said "If they try for 100 years, they will not turn Bangladesh into a Taliban state,".
 * The then chief cleric Ubaidul Haq remarked to thousands of worshippers at Baitul Mukarram Mosque, "Islam prohibits suicide bombings. These bombers are enemies of Islam. It is a duty for all Muslims to stand up against those who are killing people in the name of Islam."

title: 2005 Bangladesh bombings


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dustin Ballard

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete · Katefan0(scribble) 05:57, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Dustin Ballard
Contains no useful knowledge 129.120.86.179 20:50, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete quickly as vanity. Hall Monitor 20:51, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn vanity ---CH (talk) 09:15, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now.  No opinion. —Cryptic (talk) 11:45, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn borderline CSD A7. — Phil Welch 23:22, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Thunder and Lightning (comics)

Thunder and Lightning are a duo of superpowered brothers published by DC Comics that had encounters with the Teen Titans.

Publication history
Thunder and Lightning first appeared in New Teen Titans #32 and was created by Marv Wolfman and George Pérez.

Fictional character biography
Gan and Tavis Williams are twin brothers that were born of an unnamed Vietnamese woman and an American soldier named Second Lt. Walter Williams. Originally conjoined twins, they were separated with magic. As children, they manifested superpowers, but they had little control over these powers, and without an infusion of their father's blood, they would quickly burn themselves out. So, they took the aliases Thunder and Lightning, respectively, and set off to America to search for their father. They caused major disturbances in St. Louis and engaged in battle against the Teen Titans. After their aims were revealed, the Titans decided to help the pair.

Months later, the Teen Titans and S.T.A.R. Labs were working on a cure for Thunder and Lightning's powers. At the same time, Raven, using her powers, discovered that their father was actually an alien who had crash landed in Cambodia six hundred years ago, and was currently being held prisoner by H.I.V.E. as they tried to exploit knowledge from him. When they located him, H.I.V.E. controlled the alien in a fight against Thunder and Lightning and the Teen Titans. In the end, Thunder and Lightning were forced to kill their own father to protect their new friends. A blood transfusion from their father allowed S.T.A.R. Labs to create the cure that would allow Thunder and Lightning to control their powers.

Thunder and Lightning resettled in San Francisco, where S.T.A.R. Labs helped them control their powers. While there, they helped stop the Atomic Skull. They worked as security guards for S.T.A.R. until Trigon briefly took control of them. They were captured and held in stasis at S.T.A.R. Labs until they could be free from the demon seeds.

At some point they were freed of the seeds, as the two later returned to help the Titans battle the Justice League, via transport arranged from the ultra-powerful Cyborg. Thunder and Lightning came in too late to fight the Justice League but they still assisted in neutralizing the threat posed by Cyborg. After that, they returned to Southern Vietnam to defend it from an unknown alien threat.

During the "Infinite Crisis" storyline, they were subdued by the League of Assassins in Vietnam who were being paid to break open a prison as part of a worldwide scheme to attack Metropolis with dozens of supervillains.

During the Salvation Run storyline, Thunder and Lightning arrive to give food to Martian Manhunter. Martian Manhunter asks why they are here on this planet. When they offered to help Martian Manhunter, Bane attacks them. Despite being shocked by Lightning, Bane defeats them as Lex Luthor arrives. Luthor keeps the two alive, later using them as power sources for his teleporter. The two are seemingly killed when the teleporter device self-destructs.

In September 2011, The New 52 rebooted DC's continuity. In this new timeline, Thunder and Lightning (known as Alexei and Alya) are reintroduced as part of The Ravagers, a superhero team which also includes Beast Boy, Terra, Ridge, and Fairchild.

Powers and abilities
Thunder is able to control thunder as he manifests as rumbling noises which he can control to varying degrees. Lightning is able to release bolts of electricity and harness lightning. The two have a psychic link that allows them to communicate with each other.

Other versions
An unrelated Thunder and Lightning appeared in Superman #303 (September 1976), and were created by Elliot S. Maggin and Curt Swan. They are androids created by the supervillain Whirlicane.

In other media

 * Thunder and Lightning appear in Teen Titans, voiced by S. Scott Bullock and Quinton Flynn respectively. These versions sport samurai-like armor and the additional abilities of flight, teleportation, and rain generation.
 * The Teen Titans animated series incarnations of Thunder and Lightning appear in Teen Titans Go!.

title: Thunder and Lightning (comics)


text:
Bob Gibbs

Robert Brian Gibbs (born June 14, 1954) is an American politician who served as the U.S. representative for OH's 7th congressional district from 2011 to 2023. He is a member of the Republican Party. In April 2022, Gibbs announced he was not seeking reelection.

Early life, education, and agricultural career
Gibbs was born on June 14, 1954, in Peru, Indiana. His family moved to Cleveland in the 1960s, and Gibbs graduated from Bay High School. In 1974, he graduated from the Ohio State University Agricultural Technical Institute and moved to Lakeville, Ohio, where he co-founded Hidden Hollow Farms, Ltd. Formerly a producer of swine, Hidden Hollow Farms now produces corn and soybeans.

Gibbs served as president of the Ohio Farm Bureau Federation, Ohio's largest agriculture organization. He first joined the Ohio Farm Bureau board of trustees in 1985. Gibbs also served as a board member of the Farm Bureau Bank, the Ohio Livestock Coalition, the Ohio Cooperative Council, and the Ohio Farm Bureau Alliance. He was president of the Loudonville Farmers Equity Company in Loudonville, Ohio, where he served on the board for 12 years. Gibbs has also served as president of the Holmes County extension advisory committee, the Holmes County Farm Bureau, and as a supervisor for the Holmes County Soil & Water Conservation Service.

Elections
Gibbs was elected to the Ohio General Assembly in 2002, defeating Democrat Tom Mason of Ashland for a newly drawn district in the Ohio House. He was reelected in 2004 in a rematch against Mason. In the 2006 election, Gibbs defeated Democratic nominee James P. Riley, a former township trustee from Sullivan, Ohio, with 60% of the vote. In 2009, Gibbs ran for Ohio Senate to fill the seat vacated by state senator Ron Amstutz due to term limits.

Tenure
In 2006 Gibbs was appointed a member of the special task force to study eminent domain and its use and application in Ohio. The committee spent most of the year studying the issue and issued its final report in August 2006 with recommendations to the General Assembly.

Committee assignments
During his last term Gibbs was chairman of the House ways and means committee. He was also a member of the agriculture & natural resources committee, financial institutions, real estate and securities committee, health care access and affordability committee, and the insurance committee.

Elections
Gibbs won election to the Ohio Senate in 2008, and began his first term in 2009. On August 16, 2007, he announced his he candidacy for the 22nd district senate seat being vacated by the term-limited incumbent senator, Ron Amstutz. Gibbs originally expected to face a primary challenge from state representative Jim Carmichael, but Carmichael dropped out of the race on October 21 in order to run for Wayne County commissioner. In the general election Gibbs defeated Democratic nominee James E. Riley, a job/security representative for the U.A.W. international union, with 59% of the vote.

After winning election to Congress in 2010, Gibbs resigned from the Senate after serving half of one term.

2010
Gibbs faced Democratic incumbent Zack Space and Constitution Party nominee Lindsey Sutton in the general election. He won the Republican primary in an 8-way field. Following close results and a recount, Gibbs was certified the winner on June 4, a month after the primary.

On November 2, Gibbs defeated Space in the general election by nearly 14%. Gibbs won 14 of the 16 counties in the district.

2012
After redistricting, Gibbs decided to run in the newly redrawn Ohio's 7th congressional district. He defeated Democratic nominee Joyce Healy-Abrams in the November general election.

2014
Gibbs was reelected to a third term unopposed.

2016
Gibbs was reelected to a fourth term, defeating Democrat Roy Rich and independent Dan Phillip with 64% of the vote.

2018
Gibbs was reelected to a fifth term, defeating Democrat Ken Harbaugh with 58.7% of the vote.

2020
Gibbs was reelected to a sixth term, defeating Democrat Quentin Potter and Libertarian Brandon Lape with 67.5% of the vote.

Tenure
On March 4, 2013, Gibbs introduced the Reducing Regulatory Burdens Act of 2013 (H.R. 935; 113th Congress), a bill that would prohibit the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and states authorized to issue a permit under the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) from requiring a permit for some discharges of pesticides authorized for use under the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA). In 2018, Gibbs was supported by the Great America Committee, a political action committee registered by Vice President Mike Pence.

In 2015, Gibbs cosponsored a resolution to amend the US constitution to ban same-sex marriage.

In December 2020, Gibbs was one of 126 Republican members of the House of Representatives to sign an amicus brief in support of Texas v. Pennsylvania, a lawsuit filed at the United States Supreme Court contesting the results of the 2020 presidential election, in which Joe Biden defeated incumbent Donald Trump. The Supreme Court declined to hear the case on the basis that Texas lacked standing under Article III of the Constitution to challenge the results of an election held by another state.

On January 6, 2021, Gibbs objected to the certification of the 2020 presidential election results in Congress based on false claims of voter fraud. On April 6, 2022, he announced that he would not seek reelection in 2022, blaming the redistricting "circus", referring to the still unresolved Ohio congressional map. "These long, drawn-out processes, in which the Ohio Supreme Court can take weeks and months to deliberate while demanding responses and filings from litigants within days, is detrimental to the state and does not serve the people of Ohio", he said.

Gibbs supported efforts to impeach President Biden. In September 2021, Gibbs introduced a resolution to impeach Biden for his handling of United States-Mexico border security, his extension of the federal COVID-19 eviction moratorium, and his handling of the withdrawal of United States troops from Afghanistan. In August 2021, Gibbs co-sponsored a resolution to impeach Alejandro Mayorkas, Biden's Secretary of Homeland Security.

Committee assignments

 * Committee on Agriculture
 * Subcommittee on Conservation, Energy, and Forestry
 * Subcommittee on General Farm Commodities and Risk Management
 * Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure
 * Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public Buildings and Emergency Management
 * Subcommittee on Highways and Transit
 * Subcommittee on Water Resources and Environment (chair)

Caucus memberships

 * Republican Study Committee
 * Republican Main Street Partnership
 * Congressional Constitution Caucus
 * Congressional Western Caucus

Personal life
Gibbs is married to Jody Cox of Wooster, Ohio. They have three children and are members of Nashville United Methodist Church in Nashville, Ohio.

Electoral history
*In 2010, write-in candidate Mark Pitrone received 20 votes.

title: Bob Gibbs


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gemma tierney

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Nufy8 22:17, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Gemma tierney
Delete Vanity PhilipO 20:51, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, I don't find anything for "Gemma tierny" + irish dancing for instance. Someone by that name won a minor art prize once, but that's all.(Note adherence to Geogre's Law, too) -Splash 21:35, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Vanity. Flowerparty 21:47, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User:X-626

Name: DoubleDip

Number: 002

Pod: Unknown

Activated: Unknown

Power: Doubles dip

One Ture Place: Mrs Hagawasha

Image: Right Side

First Apearance: Mrs. Hagawasha's Cats/Ace

title: User:X-626


text:
User talk:Martin Orr

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Djegan 20:51, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Hello
I would also like to say hello and welcome! :) Syrae Faileas - « Talk » 20:55, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Martin Orr


text:
Amy Mbacké Thiam

Amy Mbacké Thiam (born November 10, 1976) is a Senegalese athlete competing in the 400 metres.

Biography
She has won medals in two World Championships, but at the 2004 Olympics she was knocked out in the heats. She is best known for winning the gold medal at the 2001 World Championships in Athletics held in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. With her 49.86 in that victory, she still holds the Senegal national record.

title: Amy Mbacké Thiam


text:
Talk:Bruce Johnson (Ohio politician)

Biggest Problem with the Johnson Article
The biggest problem with this article is that it is simply overwhelming. While I really appreciate the level to which the article delivers the details, I think that most of Johnson's accomplishments could be handled with one sentence bullet points, and criticsm of Johnson (overall) limited to one subsection. Also, the level of detail exceeds what I would consider necessary. For example - do we need to know that "Tom Drabick" wrote a letter to the Columbus Dispatch in the article? And it is implied that Drabick's letter was a catalyst for the Columbus Disptach's editorial, which I find highly unlikely. Wouldn't it be cleaner to provide the quote and then reference through a footnote?

On the otherhand, this person could become Ohio's Governor is Bob Taft were to step down because of the disclosure scandal in Ohio at present, so a higher level of detail is due Johnson than would normally given to a titular position.

Still, this article could be easily carved by half (or more) and still remain relevant. Stu 13:45, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

This article is outta control! 132.162.250.118 23:38, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
I was very confused to find this article as a FA seeing is how there is no one single picture of Mr.Johnson, also there is no political person box. While this article is very well sourced someone really needs to fix these things.--Joebengo 01:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bruce Johnson giving inaugural speech.jpg
Image:Bruce Johnson giving inaugural speech.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bruce Johnson's family at swearing in.jpg
Image:Bruce Johnson's family at swearing in.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:04, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Bruce Johnson and Jennette Bradley.jpg
The image Image:Bruce Johnson and Jennette Bradley.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --23:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bruce Johnson (Ohio politician)


text:
Talk:Gidget

Disambiguation?
This is currently flagged as a disambiguation, but it has the potential to be a very interesting article. See

http://www.californiaauthors.com/essay_stillman.shtml

for some interesting stuff.

Gidget has for example the distinction of being, as (arguably) the same character, (natural) blonde when originally played by Sandra Dee in the 1959 film, redhead when played by Deborah Walley in a sequel film Gidget Goes Hawaiian, and of course brunette when played by Sally Field. A bit like James Bond or Doctor Who in the continuity department.

IMDB says there were several forgettable sequels of the 1959 film, and that seems to be true, as they don't name any of them. Nor does Deanne Stillman mention them in the external link above. They seem (wait for it) forgotten.

Ah, but they reckoned without Wikipedia...! Two are listed on Amazon!

As Stillman notes, the information is not all that easily found. Or that's her experience, and, so far, mine. This is clearly a job for... WikiMan! Andrewa 20:53, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Done. I haven't marked it as a stub, as I think it has some integrity and completeness already, and we don't seem to have a suitable stub category anyway.

The most fascinating thing is how many sources have some of the facts wrong. The original article now at Gidget (film) stated that Sally Fields was the first non-blonde Gidget. This is repeated in some other accounts, but it's not true. Several otherwise reliable web pages say or imply that Sandra Dee played Gidget in the two sequel films, possibly that's the source of the rumour that Gidget was blonde until Sally. And many otherwise authoritative sources don't say how many film sequels there were, or what they were called. I hope I now have it sorted out!

There are two collections of episodes from the 1965 sitcom currently available on video, Beach Blanket Gidget and Gidget-a-go-go. Possibly these are the source of the doubts as to how many film sequels there were. But information on these IMO belongs in a separate Gidget (TV series) article, not this one.

The other interesting thing is that Wikipedia seems to have almost nothing on surf culture generally. I would have expected a whole category of articles, but we don't even seem to have an article... yet. Andrewa 21:04, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm, the major outstanding is that some sources say there were three telemovies. I've only found two as of yet. Maybe the animation is confusing some people. Nobody actually lists three telemovies, not that I've seen yet. But nobody even lists the two I've got, either. Andrewa 09:27, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm beginning to form a theory as to why people don't mention the telemovies explicitly. The only comment on IMDb about Gidget Grows Up gushes its praise, but my impression from the synopsis was that it was sufficiently dated and cliched to make even (perhaps especially) a Gidget fan nauseous. (I'm not one particularly, I just think it's an interesting phenomenon.) The style seems a far reach from the movies and the Sally Field/Caryn Richman incarnation. If Mad Magazine were to parody it, Gidget Throws Up would be too obvious... perhaps they have?

Perhaps this is why fansites tend not to list both telemovies? Andrewa 19:30, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Who is the real Gidget
I thought Maureen Drummy was the actual real life Gidget. At least that's the claim made in "Step into Liquid" by Dana Brown. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.148.248.157 (talk • contribs) 19:33, June 26, 2006 (UTC)
 * Um, no. The article is pretty self explanitory, and you can find a lot of info on Kathy Kohner-Zuckerman, the real life Gidget.  But, "Step into Liquid" doesn't make the claim that Maureen Drummy is the real life Gidget--at least not from what I can tell.  From doing a little Googling, I've been able to find that Maureen Drummy only appeared in "Step into Liquid" in the DVD extras (at least that's my guess, as she's not listed under the cast at IMB or anywhere else).  She's in one segment and there is an interview with here.  This is all I've really found in the interviews in re Gidget:
 * "Steve Pezman: . . . when the movie “Gidget” came out, and the whole thing got commodified. ....   +++ Tape #1972 1:35:55  +++  Dana Brown:  And neither has Gidget.  Kathy Koda was given that nickname back in the ’50s ....  Her father was inspired to write a novel ....link to transcript (pdf)"

 * I'm assuming that this is a reference to Kathy Kohner. Besides, I can't find anyone named Kathy Koda--nothing big shows up.

 * I have found one person who attributed the title of Gidget inspiration to Maureen Drummy. Geoff Carter who wrote a review of "Step into Liquid" for Las Vegas Weekly, incorrectly dubbed Maureen Drummy "Gidget inspiration" here.  But I cannot find anything that suggests that "Step into Liquid" does this.  "Step into Liquid" does note that "Layne Beachley earned the nickname “Gidget” early in her career" Step_into_Liquid_notes_8-04-03.doc.  TStein 10:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Gidget/Bewitched connection?
This seems a bit nebulous to me. I went to the one ref for this segment. It's a page on TV shooting locations. It shows a picture of a house said to stand at 267 18th Street in Santa Monica, CA, and describes how Screen Gems opted to build a facade on the Warner Bros. back lot based on it for Bewitched; no mention of any Gidget connection. It does look like the house seen in the 1959 movie though. Assuming the contributor's assertion is true, it's not much of a connection, just a piece of scenery for one project being based on a building used in another by the same studio--a shortcut by the scenic designer. (Bewiched and the TV sitcom Gidget were produced by Screen Gems, a division of Columbia Pictures, which made the three Gidget films.)

As for a set used in "Gidget goes to Rome" being reused in Bewiched, well of course big expensive resources such as sets (and cameras and lighting instruments) get reused--maybe some of the same cameras were used for both Gidget and Bewiched--so what? It was the same production company. (Also this assertion is not referenced--but it's likely enough true.)

I am skeptical of the business about the Samantha doll. No, I didn't sit through all 32 episodes looking for it (I do have a life outside of Wikipedia), but where I did look--yes, Gidget does at least sometimes seem to have a doll in her room, but even with DVD zoom you can't tell what kind. If as the contributor asserts, this was part of a marketing strategy, there should be a close up (probably more than one, even) in which the product can be recognized by viewing on an old fashioned 1960's TV set, without enlargement or enhancement. If there is such an image, will the contributor (or anyone else who knows) please post the number or title of the episode so that I can check it out? I'll own up if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am; Product Placement was not widely used for advertizing in 1960's TV sitcoms.

I really don't beleive there is any significant Bewitched/Gidget connection beyond the fact that they were produced by the same company, and the common coincidences that might reasonably stem from that fact--just my two cents. Floggolozzo (talk) 21:52, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:BigGidget.jpg
Image:BigGidget.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

the musical
The Krysta Rodriguez article mentions a play, Gidget the Musical, not mentioned in this article. Mulp (talk) 15:42, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

book cover photo?
Is the book cover photograph that of Kathy? 108.213.76.24 (talk) 21:29, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Film and television continuity?
Will someone please tell me what is contiguous with which from the list below? There are six films and two television series, and I can't tell what is supposed to be in the same continuity since the creators could hold onto a single actress to play the part.

 * Gidget, Sandra Dee
 * Gidget Goes Hawaiian, Deborah Walley
 * Gidget Goes to Rome, Cindy Carol
 * Gidget, Sally Field
 * Gidget Grows Up, Karen Valentine
 * Gidget Gets Married, Monie Ellis
 * Gidget's Summer Reunion, Caryn Richman
 * The New Gidget, Caryn Richman

Please let me know what is and is not in the same continuity. Thank you in advance. LA (T) @ 19:59, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 external links on Gidget. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080907091912/http://www.californiaauthors.com/2006/08/10/essay_stillman/ to http://www.californiaauthors.com/2006/08/10/essay_stillman/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080511213542/http://www.chicagocritic.com/html/gidget.html to http://www.chicagocritic.com/html/gidget.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080509065903/http://www.lilchiefrecords.com/brunettes/discography2.html to http://www.lilchiefrecords.com/brunettes/discography2.html/
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20030810014108/http://www.californiaauthors.com/essay_stillman.shtml to http://www.californiaauthors.com/essay_stillman.shtml
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061111014837/http://www.jwmag.org/articles/03summer/p38.asp to http://www.jwmag.org/articles/03summer/p38.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050411093638/http://dvdverdict.com/reviews/gidgetcollection.php to http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/gidgetcollection.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 17:50, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gidget


text:
Biržai District Municipality

Biržai District Municipality is a Lithuanian municipality, located in northern Lithuania, Aukštaitija ethnographic region, Panevėžys County.

The towns of Biržai and Vabalninkas lie within the district. About 64% of its land is agricultural, including a number of organic farms. Portions are protected in Biržai Regional Park and as botanical and geological reserves.

Elderships
Biržai District Municipality is divided into 8 elderships:

Landmarks

 * Sinkholes around Biržai, including Karvės ola (Cow's Hole)
 * Biržai Castle
 * Lithuania's northernmost point (°N, °W)

Structure
District structure: Biggest population (2001):
 * 2 cities – Biržai and Vabalninkas;
 * 4 towns – Kupreliškis, Nemunėlio Radviliškis, Pabiržė and Papilys;
 * 538 villages.
 * Biržai – 15262
 * Vabalninkas – 1328
 * Biržai village – 874
 * Nemunėlio Radviliškis – 729
 * Medeikiai – 656
 * Kirdonys – 492
 * Naciūnai – 455
 * Germaniškis – 429
 * Parovėja – 402

title: Biržai District Municipality


text:
Rob Roberge

Rob Roberge (born 22 June 1966) is an American writer, guitarist, singer, and writing and narrative theory professor researcher and developer.

Life
Rob Roberge was born in Bridgeport Connecticut. He studied writing at Emerson College and Vermont College where he received an MFA in the early 1990s. Since 1995, he has lived in Southern California. In 2013, Roberge released his fourth book of fiction, the novel The Cost of Living (Other Voices Books). Previous books include the story collection Working Backwards from the Worst Moment of My Life (Red Hen, 2010) and the novels More Than They Could Chew (Dark Alley/Harper Collins, 2005) and Drive (re-print, Hollyridge Press, 2006/2010). His stories have been featured in ZYZZYVA, Chelsea, Black Clock, Other Voices, Alaska Quarterly Review, and the "Ten Writers Worth Knowing" issue of The Literary Review. His fiction and non-fiction have also been published in Penthouse, The Rumpus, The Nervous Breakdown and anthologized in Another City (City Lights, 2001), It's All Good (Manic D Press, 2004), SANTI: Lives of the Modern Saints (Black Arrow Press, 2007), OC Noir (Akashic,) 2008 The Devil's Punchbowl (Red Hen, 2010) and New California Writing (Heyday, 2012). A number of his plays have been staged in Southern California and Honest Pete, a short film he wrote, directed and edited has shown at a number of festivals He's a core faculty member at UCR/Palm Desert's MFA and has taught at several colleges and universities including University of California, Riverside; Antioch Los Angeles; and the UCLA Extension Writers’ Program, where he received the Outstanding Instructor Award in Creative Writing in 2003. He's a frequent guest writer and lecturer and has judged, among others, the Red Hen Story Prize and the University of Ohio/Athens PhD writing award. Currently, he serves as the advisor for the PEN Mark program. Roberge has volunteered for a number of organizations, including 826 LA, various after school arts programs in Long Beach, CA, and Jail Guitar Doors. He plays guitar and sings with the LA bands The Danbury Shakes, The Violet Rays and the Urinals.

Novels

 * Drive
 * (reprint)
 * (reprint)

Short stories

 * "Swiss Engineering", ZYZZYVA
 * "Money and the Getting of Money," Sensitive Skin magazine

Anthologies

 * Another City (City Lights, 2001)
 * It's All Good (Manic D Press, 2004)
 * SANTI: Lives of the Modern Saints (Black Arrow Press, 2007).

title: Rob Roberge


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cowboy crew

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Nufy8 22:18, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Cowboy crew

 * Delete Vanity PhilipO 20:54, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, it's about a website (or maybe two). One of them has no Alexa rank at all, and the other is 3,900,000th, which is nn whichever way you spin it, cowboy. -Splash 22:47, 5 September 2005 (UTC) (yes, i only just noticed I hadn't signed)
 * Delete, pathetic ColumbusCrew29

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Amherst Regional High School (Massachusetts)

Amherst Regional High School (ARHS) is a secondary school in Amherst, Massachusetts, United States, for students in grades 9–12. It is part of the Amherst-Pelham Regional School District, which comprises the towns of Amherst, Pelham, Leverett, and Shutesbury, Massachusetts. Its official colors are maroon and white. ARHS's current principal, beginning in the 2023–24 academic year, is Talib Sadiq.

Sports
The school's sports teams are known as the Hurricanes. The nickname first appears in the Goldbug yearbook of 1942, in the Sports/Baseball section, "Hurricanes humble Hopkins". The nickname is likely in recognition of the 1938 New England Hurricane. "History of the Class", Goldbug 1939, is entitled "The Epic Of A Hurricane"; it begins "We are a hurricane."

The boys' cross-country team has been listed in the top 100 high school teams in America, and has won many Western Massachusetts championships, most recently in 2018. In 2001 they won the State Championship.

ARHS is one of many high schools in Massachusetts with a nationally ranked Ultimate program. The program hosts the annual Amherst Invitational Ultimate Tournament which pits 30 high school teams from across the country in the oldest and one of the largest high school tournaments in the USA.

The 1992–1993 girls' basketball team inspired the book In These Girls, Hope is a Muscle by Madeleine Blais.

The Football team won the 1999 Massachusetts High School Super Bowl by defeating Southbridge, 27–7. It was the first Super Bowl win for Amherst in 25 years.

Amherst High Athletics came to national attention in the fall of 2016, when the entire volleyball team, with the exception of one player, decided to kneel during the playing of the National Anthem at an away game against rival Minnechaug on Oct. 7, 2016. The sole player who chose to stand was profiled by ESPN.

Survival living
ARHS is one of the few schools in the nation to offer a Wilderness Survival program.

Notable alumni

 * Annie Baker (class of '99), Pulitzer Prize winning playwright
 * Thomas Bezucha (class of '82), film director and writer of Big Eden and The Family Stone
 * David F M Brown (class of '81), President, Massachusetts General Hospital; Trustees Endowed Professor, Harvard Medical School
 * Madeleine George, award winning playwright and young-adult author
 * John Henry, former MLB player (Washington Senators, Boston Braves)
 * Michael Hixon (class of '13), diver
 * James Ihedigbo (class of '02), Philanthropist and retired NFL safety who played 2007-2016 for the New York Jets, New England Patriots, Baltimore Ravens (including 2012 Super Bowl), Detroit Lions, and Buffalo Bills
 * Amory Lovins, sustainability guru and CEO of the Rocky Mountain Institute
 * Eric Mabius (class of '89), actor known for his roles as Daniel Meade on Ugly Betty and as Tim Haspel on The L Word
 * Michael E. Mann (class of ‘88), climatologist and geophysicist and current director of the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University
 * J Mascis (class of '84), of Dinosaur Jr. and other bands
 * Makaya McCraven (class of '02), jazz drummer and bandleader
 * Julie McNiven (class of '98), actress
 * Ellen Moran (class of '84), Chief of Staff to the U.S. Secretary of Commerce
 * Perry Moss (class of '78), NBA player
 * Peter Moss (class of '75), college basketball player
 * Ebon Moss-Bachrach (class of '95), actor
 * Benjamin Nugent (class of '95), writer
 * Gil Penchina (class of '87), CEO of Wikia
 * David Romer (class of '76), Herman Royer Professor of Political Economy at the University of California, Berkeley
 * Robbie Russell, (class of '97), played soccer for the MLS teams Real Salt Lake and D.C. United
 * Deb Talan (class of '86), an American singer-songwriter for the folk-pop duo The Weepies.
 * Kaleil Isaza Tuzman and Tom Herman (both class of '89), founders of govWorks and stars of the documentary film Startup.com
 * Christopher O. Ward (class of '72), Executive Director of PANYNJ, NYC Commissioner of Department of Environmental Protection
 * Jamila Wideman (class of '93), former WNBA player
 * Kevin Ziomek (class of '10), professional baseball player in Detroit Tigers minor league


text:
Talk:Prenatal testing

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2019 and 4 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): KClaudio. Peer reviewers: Samarthsbhatt, Ryleatrudeau, Holdenhansli.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Personal Opinion
Article uses many loaded terms like "needlessly worry", etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.127.54.50 (talk) 05:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Ethics
It seemed to me that the ethics issues are delicate. I changed the lanugage to be more neutral and non-judgmental.

Removed " or mental retardation" from section. The sentence was that women should have their child screened if their partner comes from an ethnic background prone to genetic disorders "or mental retardation". Sounds like something from the 50s to me.

 * Reply to anonymous. The problem you noticed was not obsolescence but rather that an encyclopedia like this should be descriptive, not prescriptive. It should describe what people do, it can describe what a certain authoritative organization advocates, it can describe the views of those who support or oppose certain actions, but it should not say "you should do x" or "a woman over 40 should do x" or anything similar. The other part of the problem is that nowhere in the introductory paragraphs is there a reason for prenatal diagnosis. There are three purposes of prenatal diagnosis: (1) to enable timely treatment of a condition before or after delivery, (2) to give the parents the chance to abort a fetus with the diagnosed condition, and (3) to give parents the chance "to prepare" for a baby with a problem (this last is emphasized in the article but in fact it is the first two reasons that have really driven policy and practices in this field and we should not be shy about acknowledging them.  alteripse 00:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

prenatal diagnosis vs prenatal screening
This generally excellent article seems to be more about screening than diagnosis but it sort of covers both without explaining the distinction. This is my first look at this article and I dont know if it is currently "tended" by anyone. I am going to set up a redirect from prenatal screening, which is what I was looking for when I found this. Anybody want to keep them two distinct articles? Anybody object to renaming this article prenatal screening and making prenatal diagnosis the redirect? This is not my field of expertise or special interest. alteripse 00:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Reply - I agree; it would be better for this article to be titled 'prenatal screening' and redirected from 'diagnosis'. Tynam 13:52, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I would disagree. Prenatal screening tests look for markers that may show a fetus at higher risk of an abnormality, such as less invasive blood tests looking for markers like AFP, inhibin, etc, but this does not guarantee the fetus actually has an abnormality. Prenatal diagnostic testing is the test that actually confirms or denies an abnormality. These are the tests like amniocentesis which may be more invasive. I think this can be kept as a single page, but this distinction needs to be made very clear since it can be confusing for patients to determine what screening vs diagnostic testing means for their fetus. Sohinihalder (talk) 18:25, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Non-invasive techniques

 * This article seems strong on invasive and ultrasound diagnostic techniques but says little about the (increasingly common) use of non-invasive protein and hormone measurements for preliminary screening. This is related to the rather vague distinction this article makes between screening and diagnosis.  Compare to the 'prenatal screening' section under Down syndrome or in individual marker articles such as Alpha-fetoprotein.  Do we need separate sections on non-invasive and invasive tests?  Tynam 13:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The article presents "invasive = diagnosis, non-invasive = screening", which is false. Non-invasive ultrasound scanning can be used to correctly diagnose many problems (eg, bulky tumors, spina bifida, anencephaly, missing limbs).  Invasive amniocentesis sampling can be used to screen for but not diagnose some problems (eg, open abdominal wall, spina bifida). Una Smith 03:21, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge here?
Fetal screening is a stub. Merge it here? --Una Smith (talk) 00:23, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Screening versus diagnosis
Currently the article does not adequately explain the differences and relationships between screening and diagnostic tests. --Una Smith (talk) 17:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Seems like the article might be better titled Prenatal testing, which would encompass both diagnostic and screening tests. But it does seem like several places diagnosis is used in the article when screening would be better term, (probably because the article started with that title, rather than because it is the right term). Zodon (talk) 09:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Sex and gender
The article links to sex but in that context it really means gender. Follow both of these links and judge for yourself. Spotfixer (talk) 00:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

 * The determination is typically done by genetic testing or observation of physical characteristics, which gives an estimate of the sex of the fetus/embryo.  (See for instance sex). According to the wikipedia article, gender refers primarily to sociology or grammar.  (I haven't heard of prenatal test to determine gender, (e.g. identify those "whose gender identity feels incongruent with their biological sex" etc.))  Zodon (talk) 00:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

April 2009 new sections and US-centric legal commentary
New user with connection to fetal genetic testing from maternal blood (commendably disclosed) added a lot of new information and sections. They need though some further work to integrate better into the article, prevent duplication of some details, and also consider some US-centric legal aspects.

 * IMHO a new test will need to await its commercial release before inclusion in wikipedia article
 * Will need sources other than just those of the company to provide the idealised secondary sources that WP:MEDRS aspires to.
 * Some of specificity and sensitivity details of new 'Typical screening sequence' section duplicates that of existing 'False positives and false negatives' section - I'm not sure which way to proceed to copyedit this - thoughts please :-)
 * 'Informed consent and medical malpractice' section needs work:
 * Firstly that off-topic here to spend too long discussing what are basic issues for all testing and medical procedure consenting issues - better for perhaps just short section with link to main article of informed consent
 * Currently reads as somewhat of instruction manual for a patient rights (i.e. WP:NOTGUIDE applies) (and investor of a new test not best person IMHO to add such direction re potential for perception of COI - but I fully accept new editor had best of motives and at least some consideration of this diffcult ethical area needs mentioning)
 * US-centric in suggesting that women have right to be informed of all possible tests and choose which ones they will have. In UK there are clear screening guidelines and NHS service commitments, but outside of that a women without specific risk-factors has no inaliable "right" to additonal tests nor therefore expectation to be counselled on them (hence whilst poor practice not to offer testing to those over 35, no NHS access for Nuchal Thickness scans for those under 35 and so no requirement to consent on this topic - yet plenty of other aspects that would still need be covered such as our routine UK morphology scans at 18-21 weeks that provides a layer of universal screening).

Anyway link to discussion thread on my talk page is here, but further discussion is probably better undertaken below :-) David Ruben Talk 21:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

amniocentesis risk dramatically overstated
See Wikipedia entry on amniocentesis for more accurate information about the risks of amnio. The 1 in 200 miscarriage rate from amnio is a very old statistic and may never have been accurate for an experienced practitioner--certainly that's a dramatic overestimate given the way things are done nowadays (although there is probably significant variation among doctors and facilities). It's outrageous that it's taken so long to start updating the information people are given in deciding whether to have an amnio.

Anyhow, the risk estimate should be updated here. See http://www.marchofdimes.com/printableArticles/14332_1164.asp#head5, for example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Katydid99 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Societal Pressures on testing
I realize this page is in start-up mode, but this section really shouldn't stand as-is with a note that it applies to the U.S.

Some states go by a Reasonable Doctor standard and some states go by a Reasonable Patient standard. The tie-in to informed consent is messy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.107.31 (talk) 07:01, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Flash in the pan
Lots of diagnostic tests come on the market with varying fanfare. Many fall into disuse because of a variety of reasons. Promising new tests that promise to change the way medicine is practiced usually fail to live up to the hype. WP:MEDRS prefers reviews (secondary sources) to singular studies (primary sources) for this reason. A test for a single entity may have no appreciable impact on the practice of prenatal diagnostics. When it does, as evidenced in the form of reviews and recommendations by relevant bodies, then we add new information. Per WP:SPECULATION, we write about what is done, not what might be done.Novangelis (talk) 14:43, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Response: I'm not sure where to begin a more productive discussion on the subject of advances in prenatal testing. I have made an effort to provide information that is directly backed by a peer-reviewed publication from a well respected group at Brown University in a well regarded medical journal. In the case where I modified the math case study, increasing the denominator from 4000 screened women to 400,000 screened women, it was purely because the using a small number fails to illustrate the shortcomings of a prenatal test like MaterniT21 that does have a 0.9% false-negative rate and a 0.1% false-positive rate. If I kept it at 4000, then it would have made it look like using MaterniT21 in high-risk women resulted in perfect results. This is the opposite of hype... this is my effort to short exactly how the test works and doesn't work.

I've also devoted some effort to explaining why there is a drive in the OBGYN field to use more accurate tests... particularly that false-positives result in many unnecessary invasive tests which carry a known risk of miscarriage. This is not speculation. This is intrinsic to how patients and physicians and the experts who write the ACOG guidelines thinks about which test to use. The references I provided back all this up.

This is an area that I have monitored for many years, attended conferences, advised several companies, and invested in several companies. I do indeed what to see MaterniT21 used - because the alternatives are substantially worse. Why would anyone want to subject their baby to a 0.5-1% risk of miscarriage to find out if the baby has Down Syndrome when there is now a non-invasive blood test available? Cost is certainly an issue, though I have stayed away from that because it is such a moving target (the test will be free to some, cost $235 to others, and will cost $1900 for yet others... but as insurance plans pick up coverage, the distribution of cost will change and eventually it will be free or have a low co-pay for most patients).

Why would you want to treat this test like it's some kind of crazy experiment that should be kept in the shadows? Wikipedia has tons of references to all sort of speculative tests, such as non-invasive tests based on fetal cells, that have failed for 20 years and remain science projects. But when a CLIA-certified test is actually brought to market and made available to women and characterized in a large study by the same people at Brown University who validated the last major advance in prenatal screening (the Prenatal Integrated Screen... which is a combination of NT ultrasound with 1st trimester blood markers and 2nd trimester Quad test), the news is treated like it's speculative garbage.

Who do you think is going to update Wikipedia with this information? Someone who doesn't care? Of course it's going to be with someone who cares enough to bother to sit down and write all this out and subject themselves to having all their revisions undone repeatedly by people who are suspicious that everyone else is a sales rep posting lies to sell snake oil. How is anyone supposed to get through that filter when you throw the babies out with the bathwater?

So please don't just UNDO everything I've written. Go into each section and point out what it is that you think is "speculative".

(talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:17, 24 October 2011 (UTC).

 * The reply, is speculation: "as insurance plans pick up coverage, the distribution of cost will change". Wikipedia is not interested in your Crystal ball. Wikipedia uses reviews by reliable sources—per policy. Yes, ACOG relies on primary studies when it reviews tests. Wikipedia relies upon those reviews which are yet to exist. We don't know what ACOG will recommend. This makes it all speculative. CLIA-certified tests have come to market and foundered. It could turn out that a competing test using the same method or tests using other same method will work better and get the recommendation. We'll see what the new model is when there is a new model.Novangelis (talk) 22:14, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

That's fine, I can remove that line about insurance coverage, though it's not exactly speculation considering that the definition of insurance covering a test is that they pick up more of the bill. Please take a look at this update to ISPD recommendations on prenatal screening. This is a medical society that advises on best practices. http://ispdhome.org/public/news/2011/ISPD_RapidResponse_MPS_24Oct11.pdf

Putting information on Wikidedia about MaterniT21 is no more about selling that test than having information about the Quad test or Ultrasound or Amniocentesis is trying to sell those tests/procedures. Please also appreciate that every single test available for prenatal screening/testing is currently CLIA certified. In fact, the vast majority of diagnostics are CLIA certified and not FDA approved. 90% of the business would vanish if you only focused on FDA approved tests. Furthermore, it is not important whether another test will come to market and displace MaterniT21; if you have a crystal ball, that's fine, but currently the only test of its kind that does exist is MaterniT21 and so it merits being discussed. But if you are interested, Verinata is at least months away from launching their test and Tandem is under the radar but still has to complete large studies. Sequenom has the leading patents in the field, possibly with some overlap with Verinata, but those two companies would have a strong case to make in court to exclude others from the market in the US and other parts of the world (unless they too a license) and so, whatever may happen, Sequenom and Verinata are in the strongest position to be dominant and betting on others would be increasingly speculative.

Why are you so determined to remove reference to a test that safely gives women a more accurate determination of their Down Syndrome risk? If I rewrite what I put up there originally and stripped out any predictions such as the comment about insurance, would this be acceptable to you?

Ne1ofmany (talk) 13:35, 25 October 2011 (UTC)Ne1ofmany

 * Use third-party (people who have not been involved with the company), secondary (review) sources per WP:MEDRS.Novangelis (talk) 14:07, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * And the IPSD report did qualify. I took the liberty of adding their conclusions which are far more sober than a company brochure.Novangelis (talk) 17:08, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

-- Ok, baby steps for me. I made a few edits and provided a summary of the basis of each edit. I stayed conservative. I'll check back in a little while and see if you have objections.

I would still like to expand the math example where the article discussed 4000 women being screened. I wrote that piece a couple of years ago because I felt that it would help people understand how sensitivity and specificity more tangible. By simply multiplying all those values by a factor of 100, it will make it easier to introduce into this example other tests as they emerge that have accuracies so high that you just can't see their flaws until you go to numbers like 400,000 screened women. I would be misleading to talk about 4000 women being screened with MaterniT21 and saying that the test would catch all 10 of the Down Syndrome cases simply because 99.1% of 10 is 9.91 and therefore rounds up to 10. But if we multiplied by a factor of 100, then you could see that the test would miss 9 Down Syndrome pregnancies out of 1000 that one would expect in a population of 400,000 women. In the spirit of being balanced, I think you would agree that showing the limitations of MaterniT21 and tests like it is informative and desirable.

So lets hash out your thoughts on this modification before I spend any time on modifying that section.

Ne1ofmany (talk) 21:37, 26 October 2011 (UTC)Ne1ofmany

 * Numerous core policies were breached.
 * Pillar: WP:Neutrality;
 * WP:Verifiability — statements do not match sources;
 * WP:MEDRS — excessive use of primary sources;
 * WP:UNDUE — excessive emphasis of a just-released test with no clear impact on practice (WP:SPECULATION); excessive emphasis on the availability of one test where others are likely to be released (WP:RECENTISM);
 * WP:PROMOTION (WP:REFSPAM).

 * Underlying this is WP:Conflict of interest: "Accounts that appear, based on their editing history, to be single-purpose accounts that exist for the sole or primary purpose of promotion (e.g., of a person, company, product, service, website, or organization), in apparent violation of this guideline, should be warned and made aware of this guideline. If the same pattern of editing continues after the warning, the account may be blocked." Novangelis (talk) 02:16, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

--- your behavior is appalling. You clearly do not understand the topic, as evidenced by your flawed summary of the ISPD document. You criticize what I wrote because of excessive use of primary sources? Would a tabloid be more credible? And then you object that I write about the one test that has been validated and allowed to come to market and recognized by an international body of experts (ISPD), but you saw I'm unfairly focusing on this test one test to the exclusions of others that will come later... aren't you being speculative giving others so much credit? Just look at the stuff you overlooked on this page? If you applied your rules, you would delete half the comments. Who nominated you the arbiter of everything that goes on this page?

Fine - I'm done with this - let someone else play this spiteful tug of war with you. Or maybe for the sake of all the people who come to read this page, you'll do more homework and drop your attitude.

I'm sure there is someone else out there, OB/GYN or someone who also agrees that the introduction of a more accurate Down syndrome blood test is the most significant improvement in the field of prenatal diagnosis to happen in the last 10 years and therefore deserves to be explained in detail on this Wikipedia page. Hopefully you won't make their experience feel like conversing with a wall.

166.137.136.25 (talk) 17:52, 28 October 2011 (UTC)Ne1ofmany

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Prenatal diagnosis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120308181947/http://newsite.fcmb.dk/index.php/fcmb-publications.html to http://newsite.fcmb.dk/index.php/fcmb-publications.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 13:19, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

possible source
See -- Jytdog (talk) 23:23, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

US country bias
The last section, after discussing general ptoperties of tests and some probably globally similar pregnancy checkups, all of a sudden reads "Performing tests to determine possible birth defects is mandatory in all states." Most probably this should have meant "US states", and not "states" as "countries". Not knowing what all more in the article is US only, and not being able to find the correct country bias or POV template that I could feel safe placing in the article text, I make at least this note here, hoping that someone will pick it up and act upon it. Thank you in advance! --Blahma (talk) 01:07, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

 * I made the edit for you. You should not be discouraged from making this kind of edit in the future. Deleet (talk) 03:00, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Queen's University Student Editing Initiative
Hello, we are a group of medical students from Queen's University (Kingston). We are working to improve this article over the next month as part of a course project and will be posting our planned changes on this talk page. We look forward to working with the existing Wikipedia medical editing community to improve this article and share evidence. We welcome feedback and suggestions as we learn to edit. Thank you. Emaadmd (talk) 18:12, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

 * Hello, as part of our class assignment we have compiled a list of suggestions to improve this article and would appreciate community feedback before we proceed with these edits. Here is a list of our suggestions:

 * 1) Add the following content into the end of the second trimester section and beginning of third trimester section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Skhan213/sandbox
 * 2) Add the following content to the third trimester section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Florianfortescue2/sandbox
 * 3) We propose to create a new sub section in the article entitled “Genetic counselling”, placed after the “Screening for aneuploidy”, section and before the “Ethical and practical issues” section. A proposed example of how the section may read is as follows: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Emaadmd/sandbox
 * 4) We propose to add this to the new section of Genetic Counseling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sj2022/sandbox?fbclid=IwAR3ERRtoWDOtW-EUc4Djqj36rFbcdjaKpnlEpeeuHR5AXN7NQdeGvHSMqc8
 * 5) We propose to add the following content to the third trimester section. The proposed paragraphs and references can be found in the following sandbox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ShyanQmed/sandbox
 * 6) We propose to create a new content section called: “Management following prenatal testing”. The proposed paragraphs and references can be found in the following sandbox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Unleash_edits_Elina/sandbox#Management_following_prenatal_testing

 * We appreciate your time and welcome any feedback you may have, thank you. Emaadmd (talk) 00:11, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Thanks for sharing these proposed article improvements. I have gone through these sandboxes and left comments. We appreciate all the work you have done to help share more high quality knowledge about Prenatal Testing on Wikipedia! JenOttawa (talk) 02:20, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Ethics of prenatal testing
Hello, I tried to clean up this new section, however, after re-reading the section, I feel that it needs quite a bit more work before it should be added to article. I reverted my revisions and also the addition of the following paragraph. You can see my reverted edits here for ideas on how to improve this and make it read more like an encyclopedia. Link to my revisions (which I reversed).

Content added by : These paragraphs ARE of my authorship:
 * A meta-analysis that investigated the success rate of using fetal cell-free DNA from maternal blood to screen for aneuploidies found that this technique detected trisomy 13 in 99% of the cases, trisomy 18 in 98% of the cases and trisomy 21 in 99% of the cases [30][31]. Failed tests using fetal cell-free DNA are more likely to occur in fetuses with trisomy 13 and trisomy 18 but not with trisomy 21 [32]. Previous studies found elevated levels of cell-free fetal DNA for trisomy 13 and 21 from maternal serum when compared to women with euploid pregnancies [33] [34][35][36]. However, an elevation of cell-free DNA for trisomy 18 was not observed [33].

 * Another important issue to address is the uncertainty of prenatal genetic testing. Uncertainty on genetic testing results from several reasons: the genetic test is associated with a disease but the prognosis and/or probability is unknown, the genetic test provides information different than the familiar disease they tested for, found genetic variants have unknown significance, and finally, results may not be associated with found fetal abnormalities. Richardson and Ormond thoroughly address the issue of uncertainty of genetic testing and explained its implication for bioethics. First, the principle of beneficence is assumed in prenatal testing by decreasing the risk of miscarriage, however, uncertain information derived from genetic testing may harm the parents by provoking anxiety and leading to the termination of a fetus that is probably healthy. Second, the principle of autonomy is undermined given a lack of comprehension resulting from new technologies and changing knowledge in the field of genetics. And third, the principle of justice raised issues regarding equal access to emerging prenatal tests.

This is NOT of my authorship, neither the rest of the article.

 * Parents need to make informed decisions about screening, diagnosis, and any actions to be taken as a result. Many screening tests are inaccurate, so one worrisome test result frequently leads to additional, more invasive tests. If prenatal testing confirms a serious disability, many parents are forced to decide whether to continue the pregnancy or seek an abortion. The "option" of screening becomes an unexpected requirement to decide (see wrongful abortion).

I now notice that this is a student initiative. It is great to see students here improving articles! please speak with your instructor and make some tweaks to this content before uploading it to the site.

adding to the original article was part of the assignments.

JenOttawa (talk) 18:00, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Non invasive prenatal testing which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:21, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: UCSF SOM Inquiry In Action-- Wikipedia Editing 2022
— Assignment last updated by Rafpez (talk) 17:20, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Molecular Genetics
— Assignment last updated by Jellyfish829 (talk) 11:29, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Prenatal testing


text:
Wikipedia:Peer review/Bruce Johnson/archive1

Bruce Johnson
Complete profile on Ohio's lieutenant governor, who could be governor if Bob Taft resigns amidst the investigations of his administration. Has photos, bibliography. But needs a good copy-edit. Would appreciate comments about it possibly being a featured article. PedanticallySpeaking 20:54, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

Could possibly be a featured article. A longer section on the scandle as more is made public. Overall a great article. --Banana04131 02:38, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay, this looks like a decent article. It's perhaps far too much detail about a fairly typical state politician than I'd ever want to know, and frankly I lost interest about half way through. But others may find it more interesting, particularly if the reader is from that state. Do you have any information regarding where he grew up or where he was born? Thanks. :) — RJH 17:50, 10 September 2005 (UTC)


text:
User:Gary Hoggatt

Employment: Program Representative with UCLA University Extension Public Policy Program.

Interests: Transformers, baseball, Star Trek, science fiction, fantasy, role playing games, Reform Judaism, egalitarianism, vegetarianism.

Education: Master's in Public Policy and  Administration, California State University, Sacramento. Bachelor's in Political Science and Economics, University of California, Irvine.

Personal Blog: garyh.net

title: User:Gary Hoggatt


text:
Homicide (Australian TV series)

Homicide was a landmark Australian television police procedural drama series broadcast on the Seven Network and produced by Crawford Productions. It was the television successor to Crawfords' radio series D24. The "Consummate Homicide cast" includes the four characters that are the best known: Det. Snr. Sgt. David "Mac" MacKay (Leonard Teale), Det. Sgt. Peter Barnes (George Mallaby), Inspector Colin Fox (Alwyn Kurts) and Sen. Det. Jim Patterson (Norman Yemm).

After self-financing the pilot episode, Hector Crawford shopped it around commercial networks for nearly a year, before a series was commissioned in 1964 by Melbourne HSV7 station manager Keith Cairns, even if Sydney would not decide to come along.

Synopsis
The series dealt with the fictional homicide squad of the Victorian Police force and the various crimes and cases the detectives are called upon to investigate. Many episodes were based directly on real cases, although the characters (including the detectives) were fictional. 510 episodes were produced and aired from 20 October 1964 to January 1977, a total of 12 years and 6 months), making Homicide the longest-running Australian weekly primetime drama in history, with 510 episodes produced (the last episode is numbered 509, due to the pilot episode being numbered with an 'A' suffix, making a total of 510), for many years it also held the record for most episodes produced in an Australian weekly primetime drama.

When Blue Heelers ended in 2006, the show equalled this record. However, Homicide ran on-air for longer than Blue Heelers, and had a greater cumulative running time due to the production of five feature-length episodes.

Scripts
Homicide scripts explored a number of major social issues, such as:
 * pack rape (episode 21, "The Violators")
 * sex work (episode 23, "The Brand")
 * loneliness, suicide and mercy killing (episode 31, "An Act Of Love")
 * the occult (episode 34, "Witch Hunt")
 * police shooting of criminals (episode 76, "The Snipers")
 * road safety (episode 123, "No Licence To Kill")
 * drugs (episode 128, "Freakout")
 * the plight of pensioners (episode 208, "Everybody Knows Charlie")
 * pollution (episode 314, "Fighting Fred")
 * use of firearms (episode 405, "Time And Tide")
 * ‘poofter bashing’ (episode 411, "A Crime Against Nature")
 * youth gangs (episode 434, "The Graduation Of Tony Walker")
 * child abuse (episode 463, "The Life And Times Of Tina Kennedy")
 * the dangers of hitch-hiking (episode 478, "Wipe Out")

Many early episodes were introduced by chief of detectives John Fegan speaking directly to camera, to highlight their significance and, presumably, to indicate they may not be suitable for younger viewers.

Stories were frequently based on real murder cases, including:

 * Episode 37, "Colour of Hate", based on the real-life murder of a young police constable. The victim's family later wrote a very appreciative letter to Crawfords in which they described the episode as ‘a fine tribute to our son’s courage and devotion to duty’. The letter was later read out by Leonard Teale in the 1970 behind-the-scenes documentary The Homicide Story, who noted that it held a special place in the production team's files.
 * Episode 39, "A Lonely Place", based on the case of serial killer Arnold Sodeman, who strangled four girls between 1930 and 1935 when affected by alcohol. While Sodeman was hanged after a long legal battle, the episode doesn't indicate what happens to his fictional equivalent.
 * Episode 180, "Dead or Alive", based on real-life New Zealand mass killer Stanley Graham, who murdered seven people (four policemen and three civilians) in October 1941. Unlike the real case, where Graham was eventually shot dead by police, the fictional killer is captured alive, and the episode ends with detectives wondering if he will be sentenced to death or found insane.
 * Episode 211, "I, Mick O'Byrne", was based on the recent case of Ronald Ryan, the last man hanged in Australia

Broadcast sheet
The first episode aired on 20 October 1964. The debut episode ("The Stunt") was not the first to be produced, with the pilot ("One Man Crime Wave") airing as episode 24A just prior to the departure of Lex Mitchell.

Regular daytime repeat screenings began in the early 1970s running until the early 1980s, as strip programming. Additionally, seven episodes were screened as specials, or part of specials:

 * ep. 376 – "Initiation", as part of the HSV-7 nostalgia program "Those Were The Days"
 * episodes 379 ("The Last Way Out"), 385 ("The Friendly Fellow"), 394 ("Patterns & Stripes Don't Mix"), 410 ("Bill"), and 463 ("The Life & Times Of Tina Kennedy") as part of the program's 30th anniversary celebration in 1994
 * ep. 383 – Assassin, shown in November 2005 as part of HSV-7's 50th year celebrations.

In the 1960s, the series was picked up, on a regional basis, by some of the ITV companies in the UK. Not all regions screened the show, which was scheduled in a late-night slot (usually 10:30pm or later), but among those that did were Westward TV, Yorkshire TV, Channel TV, Border TV and Southern Television.

In 2004, the all-film episodes "Flashpoint" (ep. 56) and "Stopover" (ep. 504) were screened cinematically by Melbourne Cinematheque. In August 2010, WIN Television, as part of their late night "Crawford's Classic Drama" series, began sequential repeats from episode 1, but ceased in March 2011 at episode 33 (the pilot "One Man Crime Wave" was not included). The pilot is significant in that one of the actors in the show was Rona Newton-John, elder sister of Olivia Newton-John.

Production notes and technical specifications
Early episodes were in black and white (B&W) with the bulk of material recorded on videotape in the Dorcas street studios of HSV7 using a multicamera setup, with many video directors, the most prolific being Alex Emanuel. Each episode also featured about ten minutes of location footage shot on 16 mm film, predominantly by Ian Jones or David Lee. Total time per episode was 47 minutes. 134 of the episodes were filmed in colour. The opening and closing theme music for the entire series run was the library piece "Victory" written by American composer James Reichert, and intermittent narration from announcer John McMahon was used for the early B&W seasons.

The first "victim" was Ian Turpie shot by Gordon Glenwright, with Susanne Haworth supplying the first pre-credits scream, while Graeme Blundell and Dorothy Crawford look on as uncredited crowd extras. According to The Homicide Story, the first scene ever turned for the pilot was of veteran vaudevillian Al Mack pantomiming a derelict under the Hoddle Bridge next to the Yarra River, possibly filmed as early as 1963/4.

With occasional exceptions, the earliest filmed segments - which often focused on dramatic shots of cars pulling in, gun battles, arrests and fist fights - did not have synchronised sound. Dialogue for these scenes was recorded "post sync". This means that the dialogue was recorded on location but, due to the often low quality of audio recorded in this manner, the actor was required to lip sync the dialogue in a sound-proof studio in the standard filmmaking process known as Additional Dialogue Recording. Location recordings were used infrequently, and usually limited to brief dialogue snatches in enclosed spaces, such as the interior of a car. Sound effects and library underscore music cues (many from KPM Music) would be also dubbed onto the location-shot footage. Both pre-recorded sound effects recordings and the work of Crawford's foley artist would be used, particularly for gunshots and the title sequence's percussive car-door slams as the stars emerge.

Episode 56, "Flashpoint", which first aired on 19 April 1966, was shot as an experiment entirely on film in mountainous locations around Buxton, Victoria and most of the dialogue for this episode was post-synched. Over the years the ratio of film to videotape was increased, and synchronised sound between a Nagra magnetic tape recorder and a maneuverable Arriflex camera became the location norm by the late 1960s leading to more efficiency and documentary authenticity. When the series switched from B&W to colour in 1973, it necessitated shooting entirely on film, as the HSV7 studios were yet to be converted to colour video production, and it was also beneficial for foreign market sales.

If a script was amended, a Crawford Productions staff member who lived near the actor concerned would be required to deliver the new script to their house. Quite often this new dialogue had to be memorised for filming the next day.

The workload for the regular actors, especially for location work, was notoriously heavy. In 1967 the regular squad was increased from three to four to better share the load, which remained the standard team to the end. In 1972, when it was decided to transfer production entirely to film, the result was a massive increase in overtime demanded by the series. Teale and Kurts promptly quit, and Mallaby only re-signed with a 13-week "escape clause", which he eventually invoked. All cited the worsening workload, which was best expressed by Teale as he announced his departure from the show:
 * "There has never been a dispute over basic pay rates; the dispute has always involved the massive overtime that Crawfords want me to work in the new year. In the end it became a simple choice between my marriage and Homicide. I chose my marriage."

Feature film
Late in the show's run – between episodes 470 and 480 – a feature-length episode was filmed. This film was entitled Stopover, with the title Homicide not used at all, and was shot entirely on film on new sets and on location at Melbourne Airport. Lawson, White, Deegan and Redford are the detectives in the film. The story involved an international rock band that was held at the airport following the fatal overdose of a band member. Guest stars included Jon English as the band's lead singer, and Tony Bonner as the band member who overdosed. The film, directed by Igor Auzins, never received a cinema release but was shown on television as a special telefilm in 1976. It is officially listed as episode 504, with episodes 502 and 503 also being feature-length.

Awards
Homicide won multiple awards for its scripts, including three AWGIEs, two Logies, one Penguin and one Sammy Award:

Significance in the TV industry
Homicide was the first major dramatic television series to be produced in Australia, the domestic television market having been previously dominated by American and British imports. In 1964, most Australian-made product tended to be quiz shows, children's series, music/variety series and one-off plays, with local drama production sporadic at best, with only a handful of typically short-lived series, rarely running more than 13 episodes, on commercial television such as Autumn Affair, Emergency and The Story of Peter Grey, along with several mini-series on ABC such as Stormy Petrel. Foreign imports were preferred because they were cheaper, slicker and (especially for US series) more plentiful than local productions. Homicide proved that there was a market for home-grown dramatic programming and was highly successful from the start – its initial ratings were in the 30s, and regularly rated in the high 40s and even low 50s (modern cop show ratings tend to be in the 20s at best). In addition, the series was produced at a tenth of the cost of an overseas program and easily outrated them, despite stiff competition from hit US shows thrown up against it. In 1971, it was the top-rated show in the country. Another Crawfords police drama, Division 4, was second.

The series also proved itself to be a virtual training ground for Australian television and film production. During its 12-year run, almost everyone in the industry – actors, directors, scriptwriters, producers, camera crew, stunt performers etc. – got their start or worked on the series at some point in their careers, and guest roles were filled by many notable actors, both established and emerging. Steady roles in long-running Crawford series helped convince successful expatriate actors like Charles Tingwell and Michael Pate to return to their homeland after decades in Hollywood or the UK. For these reasons, as well as for inspiring a series of popular cop dramas that followed, it remains one of the most important programmes in the history of television in Australia.

In 1994, a special tribute to the series aired titled Homicide: 30 Years On, hosted by Blue Heelers stars John Wood and Lisa McCune, which included interviews with surviving cast members and guest stars (both Fegan and Teale had already died before then). In 2007, Homicide was chosen for an Australia Post stamp to celebrate 50 years of television in Australia.

DVD release
Homicide has been released on DVD in a series of box sets since December 2012. Each box set contains 26 episodes on 7 discs. Twenty box sets and a bonus disc of The Homicide Story (1970) have been released, representing the complete series run.

title: Homicide (Australian TV series)


text:
User:Kenwarren/sandbox/rktect/EgilEmail

(My initial email to Egil was sent through the Wikipedia "Email this user" interface, so I don't have a copy of it. The first email below shows the content, though. Aplogies for the x'ed words in my first email, but it was a comment I consider incivil if presented for public consumption here. I will restore it if requested by an arbitrator.)

From:  Egil Kvaleberg To:  Ken Warren Date:  Mon, August 22, 2005 9:00 am Subject:   Re: Rktect and standards of measure

On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 11:12 +0000, Kenwarren wrote: > FWIW, Rktect is xxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx. > > My suggestion is that we simply try to keep the damage under control, as best we can, > on articles like Mile and Eratosthenes, and let him dig his own grave.

I've spent more than enough time on this. If you have any suggestions on how to end this nightmare without spending more time, I'm all game.

RfArb, is that something?

Egil - From:  Ken Warren To:  Egil Kvaleberg Date:  Mon, August 22, 2005 10:55 am Subject:   Re: Rktect and standards of measure

> On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 11:12 +0000, Kenwarren wrote: >> FWIW, Rktect is xxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx. >> >> My suggestion is that we simply try to keep the damage under control, as >> best we can, >> on articles like Mile and Eratosthenes, and let him dig his own grave. > > I've spent more than enough time on this. If you have any suggestions on > how to end this nightmare without spending more time, I'm all game.

Yeah, I agree. I've spent as much time as I care to, since I have a personal project I'm trying to find time to work on. My thought: keep the articles that he's modified (to their detriment) as sober as we can, and ignore the stuff he's creating, until it looks like it's probably done. At that point, it can be evaluated.

> RfArb, is that something?

I don't think Rktect is foolish enough to take this to the Arbitration Committee. (But I can hope...) The extent of my potential exposure, if he does, would be listing multiple articles that were all identical when created as a single VfD. This is a technical violation of the VfD procedure, but a common one when dealing with certain types of vandalism. Beyond that, I can show that I've been trying to communicate and arrive at an understanding of Rktect's goals, a required step in obtaining a real consensus.

-- Ken

- From:  Egil Kvaleberg To:  Ken Warren Date:  Mon, August 22, 2005 12:17 pm Subject:   Re: Rktect and standards of measure

On Mon, 2005-08-22 at 10:55 -0400, Ken Warren wrote:

> I don't think Rktect is foolish enough to take this to the Arbitration > Committee. (But I can hope...)

FWIW, Rktect put an end to the mediation with me, and said he would bring the matter to RfC or RfArb.

Egil - From:  Egil Kvaleberg To:  Ken Warren Date:  Fri, August 26, 2005 6:35 am Subject:   Re: Rktect and standards of measure

Wrt. the G4 deletion clause, I left an additional comment on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Aroura

Egil - From:  Ken Warren To:  Egil Kvaleberg Sent:  Sun 8/28/2005 2:46 PM Subject:   RE: Rktect and standards of measure

Just so you're aware, I still consider Steve Whittet's contributions to be pseudoscience where they get into conclusions not accepted by mainstream experts. However, that doesn't mean that there's no place for any of his material. He's probably right about relative sizes of amost of the units he discusses, or at least he probably has scholarly sources to back them up. Where he's wrong (IMO) is in thinking that these units can all be related back to a late Neolithic/early Bronze Age knowlege of geodesy.

Since I have almost no time to spend on Wikipedia at the moment, and since I don't consider *all* of his contributions valueless, I'm currently restricting myself to relatively minor and non-controversial edits in the realm of masurements, plus correcting politely his wilder excesses.

I will mention one thing: there has been a great deal of incivility and many assumptions of bad faith, on both sides. Possibly some of the bad faith assumptions are justified. I tend to think so, as Rktect seems to have adopted the tactic of disrupting Wikipedia to make a point, which is a form of bad faith. In any case, this will only serve to damage any case raised as a request for comments or brought before the Arbitration committee. Please be aware of this, and try to be reasonably temperate in comments on talk pages and VfDs. Where you alter his figures, as you might choose to do at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Mouton, you should make sure to include cites.

If this does come before the Arbitration Committee, I will act as an interested party, by the way. I (and others) tried repeatedly to engage Steve in reasoned discourse, which he has ignored, and he has repeatedly acted in ways which are not in the best interests of Wikipedia.

Best wishes,

Ken Warren - From:  Egil Kvaleberg To:  Ken Warren Date:  Sun, August 28, 2005 3:34 pm Subject:   RE: Rktect and standards of measure

On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 14:45 -0400, Ken Warren wrote:

> Since I have almost no time to spend on Wikipedia at the moment, and since I > don't consider *all* of his contributions valueless

I did spend some effort finding the value for this measurement, yes. I still waiting for an email with an extra verification, but I do think my numbers for the Bologna foot are pretty good. (Wikipedia, in its current state, is of course useless as a reference for any of this.) Also, doing the pendulum equation, using a G for 45 degrees latitude (Lyon is pretty close) I get 2.05 m.

And yes, my conclusion is that it is hopeless. Sorry. (Not only for this article, but for all articles on my growing list). The current Wikipedia mechanism fails miserably for this type of situation. As I was trying to show with my strange question to you wrt Mouton, the only possible solution is to revert completely (yes, I do find the space/time statement useless. Mouton was the first to relate a measure of length to a measure of time, but that is something different. But lets not argue about that).

This particular user, including his anons, have done almost 1000 contributions in a month. If we should take them seriously, and assuming half of these are contributions (what a PC word) for articles, and say that it takes 1 hour to verify each (I think it is more), we are talking three to four people full time to do so. I do not have the time nor desire to be one of them.

I do think Jimbo mentioned in August some changes in policy on stuff like this, but is it is now, Wikipedia is far too fragile.

Egil

- From:  Egil Kvaleberg To:  Ken Warren Date:  Tue, August 30, 2005 1:56 pm Subject:   RE: Rktect and standards of measure

On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 14:45 -0400, Ken Warren wrote: > Just so you're aware, I still consider Steve Whittet's contributions to be > pseudoscience where they get into conclusions not accepted by mainstream > experts. However, that doesn't mean that there's no place for any of his > material.

Problem is, when the signal to noise ratio gets low enough, you simply do not know which 1 and 0 in the data channel that may happen to be correct, and which are not, and the entire signal looses its value (sorry if the above is incomprehensible, I just used an analogy from an area with which I am familiar).

> Since I have almost no time to spend on Wikipedia at the moment, and since I > don't consider *all* of his contributions valueless,

It is of course laudable if someone wants to sort out what is of value. But as I hope I expressed in the RfAr, I think Wikipedia would benefit much more if you spent your valuable Wiki time adding content yourself, in stead of filtering and repairing rktect. (IMHO and all that)

As I said in the RfAr I firmly believe a good, long pause from this is needed. Perhaps for all parties - I must admit I almost fell of my chair when I saw this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Livio_Catullo_Stecchini&diff=prev&oldid=22111178

I can only congratulate you with your achievement, here is suddenly a man that can talk meaningful sentences and participate in an intelligent discussion! (I guess I would probably disagree with some of the things he said, but that is another matter)

I'm probably very bad at understanding other people, but ugly me could also see the above as a proof that he is totally trolling all the time (except for this one mishap).

> Where you alter his figures, as you might choose to do at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Mouton, you should make sure to include > cites.

On that one, I have done my citing good enough, I think.

But also bear in mind that what 'rktect' is doing can easily be understood as a 'denial of service' attack. If rktect can freely dump a hundred sentences into an article, and I would be required to research every one of them to delete them, then the 'troll' wins.

There is a mechanism called 'trust', which is in fact something I believe a society like Wikipedia is depending on to a very high degree, and makes the society work (Wikipedia is an interesting social experiment, that is part of my fascination. And frustration at times). Even though the "Wikipedia:" pages hardly mentions it.

Every sentence in Wikipedia is not based on cites or referrences. It is based on trust to the people who write them. Trust is built up slowly, it is a very valuable commodity, but gets destroyed if misused.

Needles to say, my trust in rktect is zero, because as I see it, he is mainly out to troll me and waste my time.

Egil

title: User:Kenwarren/sandbox/rktect/EgilEmail


text:
Tension and release

Tension and release may refer to:
 * Consonance and dissonance
 * Tension (music)

title: Tension and release