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Wikipedia talk:Provenance

Untitled
This article has been moved here from Provenance at the suggestion of another Wikipedia user.--Pseudo Socrates 20:21, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Proposal
I would like to propose a button on the history page of each article that would provide the provenance (i.e. author) of each section of text in an article. There are various user interfaces possible for this functionality. One simple way would be to have a quasi-footnote for each section of text that would link to a table of authors at the bottom.--Pseudo Socrates 19:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Except that each section, like the article, could have been written by a zillion different people over time... N (t/c) 19:35, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, indeed. I meant to say each interval of text by a single author whould have a link to the table of authors at the end.  An interval could conceivably be as short as a single word or as long a whole article.--Pseudo Socrates 20:44, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This is an interesting idea, but I'm afraid there is just no good way to do it. Really. To illustrate the problem, suppose an article says, "q q q", and you edit it, making it "q q q q". Now, which "q" is yours? Again, I'm just illustrating the problem; I don't mean this as a serious question. If you solve that one, there are more complex ones that wouldn't work. Doing a "difference" operation on two pieces of text the "right" way every time is simply impossible. Yes, MediaWiki includes code to do such an operation; that's what the "Show changes" button does on edit screens. And sometimes it gets it wrong. When you're just giving someone an idea of what they've done, it's no big deal, but if you're assigning authorship (with varying licenses!) for all the world to see, it becomes a more serious matter. And if we can't get it right, we'd better not do it. Sorry. — Nowhither 06:44, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * That's easy. All the q's are yours. Wikipedia diffs are already line-based. This is a feature that exists in collaboration software like Subversion (svn blame), so it's short-sighted and wrong to say it's not possible. I think the feature would be a good idea. RSpeer 06:39, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * Provenance has been an issue for the Wikipedia since its inception. Numerous authors have pointed to it as a principle deficiency of the Wikipedia.  It is difficult to believe that provenance will not be provided once people realize that it can be done.  Of course, it will not be perfect.  But that will not prevent it from happening.  As far as I can determine from trying it out, the "Show changes" button on the MediaWiki does not provide provenance.--Pseudo Socrates 22:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Three points: First, you said, "... once people realize that it can be done." My point is that is cannot be done, at least not without some change in the edit procedure, requiring editors to mark the things they have added as their own. Second, you are right, "Show changes" does not provide provenance. Because it cannot. Automated determination of authorship, given only the "before" and "after" texts for each author is an impossible task. Third, you said, "Of course, it will not be perfect." You are talking about legal licensing, responsibility for textual accuracy, etc. If we are going to do this, it had better be perfect. If it is not perfect, then you are assigning authorship to the wrong person, possibly licensing with the wrong license, etc. Sounds bad. — Nowhither 14:05, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Of course what I have proposed can be done. With regard to the legalisms, a notice can be placed at the bottom of a dynamic provenance page as follows:

The name of each link above was derived from the second column source (login name or ip address) of the history page of the article for which this page was produced. Clicking on a link will produce a dynamic page that shows a version of the article in which the text following the link appears. Of course the source may not be  the author of any of the text in a article that results from their edit.

 * Note that there is no imperfection involved in the above legalism. Also each provenance page could bear the standard Wikipedia footer which states:  "All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License (see Copyrights for details)."--Pseudo Socrates 14:48, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

User Interface
One possbile way to provide provenance would be to place the link before the text. The name of the link would be the author name followed by a colon. The link would point to the version in which the text was introduced. Initially it might be better to place the provenance button on the history page for an article rather than on the article page.--Pseudo Socrates 22:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Whoa, are you proposing a block of text look like this?: Dog's are fun to provenance play with. provenance All breeds are dogs. Rover is a name for dogeprovenance, so is spot. That is too ubofficial to be worth it. Maybe a history for section edits, that would be good. Howabout1 Talk to me! 01:45, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * What is a "history for section edits"?Pseudo Socrates 02:12, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Next to the edit section tabs there would be a history button for all the edits made only to that section. This is related to below.Howabout1 Talk to me! 02:40, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * A history button for all edits made only to a section sounds like an excellent idea.Pseudo Socrates 03:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * You didn't answer my question either, would it look like the text above, with evet didnprovenance'provenancet, should someone make a mistake. I am sorry if I have been rude. Howabout1 Talk to me! 02:40, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * Pressing the Provenance button for an article might produce a version of the article that would include something like this:
 * "Pseudo Socrates: This text was authored by Pseudo Socrates."
 * where the above link Pseudo Socrates: would be to the version of the article in which "This text was authored by Pseudo Socrates." was introduced into the article.
 * Pseudo Socrates 03:21, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry, you really are proposing having a hundreds of links in the text? That is ludicrous, my friend. This is an encyclopedia. That would drasticly affect the readability of the site. I also appreciate your moving of my text, it is placed better now. Howabout1 Talk to me! 03:25, August 18, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, indeed there could be a lot of links in the dynamic page produced by pressing the <tt>Provenance</tt> button. However, all of these links would be to previously existing versions of the article that already exist on the Wikipedia.Pseudo Socrates 03:37, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

It doesn't matter where the links go, it would make the text hard to read. Above all things, this is a source for information. Are you saying making a different version of the page that could be obtained by clicking on one link at the top? Even if that is your idea, I really hate this idea. The information is important as a whole. And again I say, you are the only one who wants this. Howabout1 Talk to me! 23:37, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * It seems that Rspeer also thinks that making provenance readily available is a good idea. (See above.)--Carl Hewitt 13:31, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Temporal Provenance
Let's call the above proposal author provenance. There is another kind of povenance having to do with the time that piece of text was introduced into an article that could be called temporal provenance.

For example, temporal provenance could be implemented by providing a <tt>Provenance</tt> button which when pressed would display a dynamic page with the vintage of each interval of text indicated. E.g., text less than 24 hours old could be displayed in red font, text older than 24 hours but younger than a week could be displayed in green, and older text could remain in black.

I would like to amend my proposal to be that we implement temporal provenance instead of author provenance.Pseudo Socrates 13:32, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Tom Cross' "Puppy smoothies" proposes measuring number of edits, not time. Obviously, the two approaches could be combined.

Social Effects
Providing provenance is likely to have important social effects--positive and negative. You might think that these effects could be avoided by simply voting down the inclusion of provenance in the Wikipedia. However, if some people strongly desire provenance and its inclusion is voted down then it is likely that provenance will be provided via a browser plug in. If this happens then there will be two classes of user of the Wikipedia: those with the plug in and sufficiently powerful computers to quickly compute provenance and those without. Also once one Wikipedia plug in is created it is likely that others may quickly follow. In this way the community could lose significant control over the user interface of the Wikipedia.Pseudo Socrates 01:42, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * First of all, this strikes me more as a description of a technical fix to the social problem that may arise given some people wanting this and some not. So before even dealing with the technical issue, lets deal with whether it's a good idea from a social standpoint.  I think it's a bad idea because an article is really a joint effort.  Just because I put in a short phrase today after someone else has put in a paragraph, doesn't mean that their input did not lead to mine and visa versa.  I stand on the shoulders of giants, and so forth.  Editing is really an interactive joint enterprise and should not be divided up into miniscule fragments, that will not really reflect each's real contribution.  It seems to go against the spirit of the way articles have been developed in the past, where we're all in it together and no one lays claim to the work.

 * Secondly, if it is divided up into miniscule fragments with individual ownership of each comma and tilda, it will affect the process of cooperation on the article, maybe adversely. It allows some users to take prominence over others, which again goes against the spirit in which wikipedia operates now.

 * And thirdly, you still don't really know who contributed each segment because people can choose any user id they want.

 * So I'm really against it, and at the very least, strongly suggest that it should be taken up for a vote before it's adopted.

 * Fsm 02:17, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * You (User:Pseudo Socrates) seem to be the only one wanting this, yet you seem to say this as something strongly desired and inevitable. This isn't wanted or needed should a vote turn up many supporters, well lets do it. I have thought that it would be nice to find out who wrote each block of text, but as is said above, it goes against the colaboration of the wiki.Howabout1 Talk to me! 02:40, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

 * It seems that Rspeer also thinks that making provenance readily available is a good idea. (See above.)--Carl Hewitt 13:32, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Xiong's Goggles
There are no individual authors of individual segments of an article. I'm not speaking of some vague collective ownership. I mean to say that the entire text of each article is the entire responsibility of the last editor.

Once I push "Edit this page" and do anything, and save the result, I have assumed responsibility for and authorship of the whole thing. If I don't endorse what existed before, I don't retain it -- I delete or rewrite it.

I don't see that anyone is entitled to weasel out of this responsibility; the very furthest I might go in that direction is to say that, since section editing is allowed, then perhaps I only assume responsibility for the entire section in which I edited.

But should anybody, anywhere ask "who wrote that" about any article, I say there are only three good answers, and none of them link to individual chunks of text:

 * Jointly, by the Wikipedian Community

 * Jointly, by the editors listed in history

 * Individually, by the last editor to touch the page

For purely internal purposes, I might notice that Somebody 7 edits back made such-and-such a change, and although it was retained by subsequent editors, if I wish to question the change, I might well contact that Somebody.

But if the question is accuracy, credit, or blame in the outside world, I say that from one angle, we all share; from another, all share who edited; from yet another, the burden rests firmly on the last editor.

Think about that when you touch a page. — Xiong 熊 talk * 23:35, 2005 August 22 (UTC)
 * Interesting suggestion, but what about truly minor edits? Suppose I'm reading an article on a subject that I know little or nothing about, and I notice a typo.  If I correct that typo then, under your suggestion, I am assuming responsibility for the totality of that article (or section,) even though it is a topic I don't know much about.  If you write an article and accidentally type "teh" instead of "the", and I fix your typo, should I really be blamed for inaccuracies in what you wrote?  Surely that would just discourage copyediting, which would make Wikipedia worse.  AJR 02:12, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

 * According to WP:HEP, that is the meaning of the minor edit flag: don't mind me, this is just a small copyedit; I really have no comment on the content of the article/section. Otherwise Xiong is correct -- you touched it, you bought it. The "provenance" of the article is the author of the last non-minor edit to each section. Fool 17:34, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

 * While this is a admirable guideline for editors to follow, I feel it is contrary to the guideline Be Bold, which I believe is a hallmark of Wikipedia. There are numerous edits that, while not a minor edit like a typo, are tweaks to the current article.  These may be minor additions, clarifications, rewordings, changes to layout, etc. that may even be made by someone with little or no knowledge of the subject, but improve the article for all users.  As an example, a recent edit I made involved adding a short paragraph at the beginning of the History heading of Accountancy and a rewording of the opening part of the next paragraph; I didn't have the time to research or edit the entire section, but felt I had something important to add.  As a new user, I then looked around and found the history page; it turns out the rewording I made was to materials quoted from the Project Gutenberg Encyclopedia, but the citation information has been deleted many revisions ago.  Using the last editor is the responsible editor concept I am now "responsible" for this significant breach of encyclopedic standards, when all I wanted to do was correct wording that was questionable ("The art of accountancy on a scientific principle ...").  So, I addressed that on the Talk:Accountancy page now, and plan to do further editing as time permits me to in the future.  Should I revert to the old version or delete all the now-uncited information until I can thoroughly address the entire section (as your guidelines would suggest), or do I leave the new version and allow other users to decide if my changes are beneficial, harmful, innocuous, misleading, etc.  I choose the latter option; while this muddles the concept of "provinence" significantly, I believe it more closely reflects the underlying philosophy of a collaborative work. --EMU CPA 11:30, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Still, you not only flagged the problem on the talk page, but also plan to do further editing as time permits. This suggests that you have, in fact, taken responsibility, in the sense that I think is most important. Plus, all philosophy of collaboration aside, in the case of simple provenance below for example, I would still want your name on the section header. Fool 15:57, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

huh?
if I understand this correctly, the proposal is for nothing more, and nothing less, than a useful editing tool. Meaning that it will save you time when looking for vintage vandalism. For the reader, it wouldn't make any difference. For the reader, all that matters is WP:CITE, not which IP added which comma. The concept may be useful for some contexts, but with extremely frequently edited article, the concept breaks down. The diff algorithm is not capable to decide which stopword originated with which edit at some point. Baad 08:56, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

 * See the Controversies section of this article's project page.. Note that despite all that, I think source provenance is a great idea. Like you are saying, it would help Wikipedians find out vandals' usernames. --Unforgettableid | Talk to me 10:44, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * References and some sort of assurance that the references are reliable, relevant, and that the text of the article is in accordance to them. This is sort of the point, I guess. If the reader was going to go check up on the references emself, e wouldn't need Wikipedia in the first place. Fool 21:31, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Simple provenance
What about something like this:

TITLE         [ Last major edit: INTERVAL by AUTHOR ]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

TEXT

TEXT

TEXT

SECTION HEADING  [ Last major edit: INTERVAL by AUTHOR ] [ edit ]

TEXT

TEXT

SUBSECTION HEADING [ Last major edit: INTERVAL by AUTHOR ] [ edit ]

TEXT

TEXT

AUTHOR would be the last one to submit an edit (without the minor flag) to the article/section/subsection, and would link to that user. INTERVAL would be something like "1 month ago", "3 days ago", or "23 secs ago" and would link to a diff of that change. Fool 20:56, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Professional or expert recognition
I think there should be a channel through which professionals in some fields could be recognized as such and noted experts could be recognized as such.

For instance, a doctor could request status as a medical professional. This would not give him any additional privileges, it'd only give other Wikipedians warning that this guy knows what he's talking about and his contributions should be respected. This can be written on a user page of course, but outside validation would ensure that it's true and I think would help control a lot of edit disputes. A similar system should be produced for "experts", noted researchers or something else in fields where there cannot be professionals; e.g., there are no longer any samurai, but if a Wikipedian has had his work published, he can be recognized as an authority on samurai.

The practicality of this, with the current setup of the Wikimedia Foundation and MediaWiki software, is questionable. It would probably require some implementation in the MediaWiki code to prevent unauthorized usage of tokens indicating one's authority, and unless we can find a way to perform validation through the internet, it would probably require some employees to investigate credentials. I'm not really sure if it's worth that hassle, but it'd be cool. Cookiecaper 22:41, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with Cookiecaper on every point apart from "it'd be cool". I wouldn't like the idea anyway; I have absolutely no credibility on this sort of count, in fact, John Seigenthaler Sr made a remark about teenagers that describes me very well. Does this mean that I know nothing and can therefore not contribute? No, it means that I am percieved to know nothing, even though I may be able to help contribute hugely. Have a quote:

Find it here —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The1exile (talk • contribs) 12:51, 23 February 2006  (UTC)
 * Now a picture of the body behind the "Hive Mind" of "collective intelligence" begins to take shape. He's 14, he's got acne, he's got a lot of problems with authority ... and he's got an encyclopedia on dar interweb. Watch out.

Passage Histories as Provenance
I find that when I'm editing a section, I'd like to know its history: How did it get to the present state; will I be reinventing the wheel with my planned changes? Of course I could toggle through the whole history of the article, but when there are 200+ edits, that becomes unreal.

What would deal with my problem, and with the provenance problem, would be an improved history page that could identify only those changes within sections (or ideally, within arbitrarily selected passages). With that you could step from version to version of a section, identifying the changes with the diff function.

Of course there are real software problems here. Following a section as it was edited, rearranged, divided into several parts which were later rearranged represents a real challenge. (Consider how easily the diff function gets lost with just a single edit.) Despite the problems (says someone who doesn't do programming) it would provide a valuable editing tool, and a way to identify the provenance of a crackpot (or brilliant) idea in that passage. --SteveMcCluskey 22:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Validation and Trust
The software world uses some very simple models for validation and trust: versioning and review. It would not be hard to apply similar models to wikipedia articles. An author should be allowed to version her article and submit for review. Others in the field pertaining to the article's contents could review the article and rate the article's accuracy and leave comments for the author (or next author). There is a condition for this to work: others in the field must be trusted. Trust can be enforced in a number of ways: authentication and review. Authentication is in place already with Wikipedia's login (maybe not extremely strong, but usable). Review (or rate) is essentially what can be found on an online auction site. Users review (or rate) the expertise of a certain user. Users with higher ratings in that field have higher weights applied on their ratings. Credentials and credential verification could be another way to validate trust of an article reviewer. Along with the aforementioned suggestion (a better passage history user interface), any user of Wikipedia would be able to find a versioned article and have less doubt concerning its validity. --James.cary9 23:20, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wikipedia talk:Provenance


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Kefalograviera

Kefalograviera (Greek: Κεφαλογραβιέρα) is a hard table cheese produced traditionally from sheep's milk or mixture of sheep's and goat's milk. According to the PDO filing with the EU (see below) the name applies only to cheese produced in Western Macedonia, Epirus, and the regional units of Aetolia-Acarnania and Evrytania.

The cheese has a salty flavour and rich aroma. It is often used in a Greek dish called Saganaki, cut into triangular pieces, rolled in seasoned flour and lightly fried. It is an excellent cheese for grating, and is widely used as a topping for pasta dishes. According to one cookbook, "At its best, it is as good as or better than Romano or aged Asiago." It is very similar to Kefalotyri cheese and sometimes is sold under that name.

Kefalograviera has PDO status.

title: Kefalograviera


text: Category:User war-N

title: Category:User war-N


text: User talk:68.81.108.89

title: User talk:68.81.108.89


text: Template:The Jackson 5

title: Template:The Jackson 5


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Category:Climbing areas

 * This is the category of climbing areas, broadly defined.

title: Category:Climbing areas


text:
User talk:Soxrul3

Image Copyright Problem RE:Image:Ph 111851.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Ph 111851.jpg. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law. We need you to specify two things on the image description page:
 * The copyright holder, and
 * The copyright status

The copyright holder is usually the creator. If the creator was paid to make this image, then their employer may be the copyright holder. If several people collaborated, then there may be more than one copyright holder. If you created this image, then you are the copyright holder.

Because of the large number of images on Wikipedia, we've sorted them using image copyright tags. Just find the right tag corresponding to the copyright status of this image, and paste it onto the image description page like this:.

There are 3 basic ways to licence an image on Wikipedia:
 * An open content licence
 * Public Domain
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 * The copyright holder gets the best protection of his work by licencing their work under an open content license like the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike licence. If you have the express permission of the copyright holder to licence their work under the above licence, use the image copyright tag: cc-by-sa-2.5.  The GNU Free Documentation License is another choice for licencing one's work.  Again, if you have the express permission of the copyright holder, use the tag: GFDL.

 * The copyright holder can also release his work into the public domain, see here for images released into the public domain.

 * Images from certain sources are automatically release into the Public Domain. This is true for most governments like the federal United States government. (See   here  for images from the government of the USA and here for other governments)  However not all governments release their work into the public domain, such as the UK government (See herefor images from the UK government).  Non-free licence governments are listed here.

 * Also, in some cases, an image is copyrighted but allowed on Wikipedia because of Fair Use. To see if this image qualifies and then how to tag it, see Fair use.

For any other sources of for more information see Image copyright tags. Please remember that if you don't tag your images, they will be deleted.

 * P.S. If you have uploaded other images without including copyright tags, please go back and tag them.  Also, please tag all images that you upload in the future.

If you have any questions, just leave a message on my talk page. Thanks again. --Eclipsed 20:01, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Soxrul3


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Exultet

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP, and tag+list for expansion. -Splash 07:10, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Exultet

 * Should be Deleted because non-encylopedic Billhpike 20:03, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
 * NE as written which is just text without context. An article would certainly be possible on the topic (see e.g. ). Dlyons493 22:01, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I'd be happy to put it back on the to-do list for an expansion. It's highly-encyclopedic, as a theology topic relevant to many Christian denominations. I agree it could use some tidying, but I think "unencyclopedic" is a little far; if grammar schools and Pokemon characters can have articles, I think a traditional chant for the highest of holy days that has been in use since the 7th century can be included. -- Essjay ·   Talk 04:52, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as per Essjay, but please expand the article. Uppland 06:35, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as per Essjay. Important Gregorian chant. —Wahoofive (talk) 06:48, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep on the grounds that Essjay has promised to work on it. Alf 07:55, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Keep is this a bad faith nomination? Obviously the article requires expansion, but this obviously qualifies as encyclopedic as above. I will probably contribute to it myself in time.--Nicodemus75 18:29, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as per Essjay. Important part of the holiest of Catholic holy days. Psy Guy 17:26, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but try to expand articles. --Hurricane111 21:14, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Exultet


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Talk:List of Aerolíneas Argentinas destinations

General

 * This list of destinations is not date referenced. Are these destinations being served in 2005 or what? We need to know how current the list is or it is of no value. Ardfern 20:03, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Considering the article is rather new, I would say it is updated, but I dunno. -Mariano 07:01, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi - Aerolineas Argentinas flies into London Gatwick - not London Heathrow. Check their website for proof. Thanks Ba.v.vs 17:17, 12 September 2007 (GMT)

 * AR indeed served LHR. Take a look at this picture. --Jetstreamer (talk) 00:46, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Extraneous destinations
So, we suddenly started flying to Asia and Africa and a lot of other places and I didn't realize... Mal karma (talk) 17:40, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * How can we get this page protected? The person(s) adding destinations worldwide has(ve) been coming from all sorts of IPs unlike the recent Indonesian vandal (see my contribs) who came from the same prefix. HkCaGu (talk) 11:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

THIS PAGE IS ALL WRONG, AND SOMEONE NEEDS TO FIX IT, but I am buisy right nowTravelCRAZED (talk) 02:17, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion to split table into national and international destinations
I find it quite confusing that airports within Argentina itself being served by the Argentine Airline on the one hand and destinations outside of the country are mixed in one and the same table. I propose to divide the table into two separate ones: "Airports served within Argentina" and "International destinations". Or something to this effect... And then in the national table to indicate the province instead of the country... --L.Willms (talk) 19:29, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Definitely not. This has been discussed many times at WP:AIRLINES. The latest discussion appears here.--Jetstreamer Talk 20:12, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Too much to read. But I remember that air transport and airports in the english Wikipedia has fallen into hands of people who want to use the Encyclopedia as a travel agency. It does absolutely make no sense at all to mix national and international destinations for the Argentine national airline or any other national airline of that kind. I opt out of that. I have better things to do than fight windmills. --L.Willms (talk) 17:10, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, there's nothing more to deal with if you don't want to read. The project discussed many aspects of airline destinations (including your proposal) for a very long time before reaching a consensus recently. It's very unfortunate that you came up with this now, since everyone's participation was required at that time and only a few editors (myself included) replied with comments.--Jetstreamer Talk 20:59, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Start Belo Horizonte
http://airlineroute.net/2013/03/21/ar-cnf-jun13/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minhtuanvn 1995 (talk • contribs) 10:48, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Source not reliable.--Jetstreamer Talk 11:32, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Archived references not used in the article
--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 12:45, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Route map
Would this be considered a valid updated route map? The one in the references seems to be quite old. Ragedymann (talk) 05:23, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Usually, official route maps are used to support destination lists.--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 01:07, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It is the official in-flight magazine. The website's doesn't seem very reliable, basically every city in the world is in the list, and when you click to buy a ticket it says there aren't any flights. Ragedymann (talk) 05:22, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Let me see if I can find a map of destinations somewhere in the official website. If not we can use the one you say.--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 15:06, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://airlineroute.net/2014/06/13/ar-lgs-jul14/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304101500/http://www.bubblear.com/aerolineas-argentinas-discontinues-flights/ to https://www.bubblear.com/aerolineas-argentinas-discontinues-flights/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1959/1959%20-%202275.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/2001/2001%20-%200912.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1982/1982%20-%200840.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://a248.g.akamai.net/7/248/25213/30afb796c8dd1c/www.aerolineas.com.ar/arg/images/InformacionDeVuelos/mapa.pdf
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text:
Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley Railroad

The Lackawanna & Wyoming Valley Railroad, more commonly known as the Laurel Line, was a Pennsylvania third rail electric interurban streetcar line which operated commuter train service from 1903 to 1952, and freight service until 1976. Its main line ran from Scranton to Wilkes-Barre.

History
The line was originally owned and built by Westinghouse, Church, Kerr & Company, a subsidiary of The Westinghouse Electric & Manufacturing Company. The Westinghouse group also owned the Grand Rapids, Grand Haven & Muskegon Railway, which was under construction in the same time period. Westinghouse interests controlled the railroad until 1914.

Electrification was decommissioned in 1953, as diesel operations began. It was purchased by the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad in 1957, but operated as an independent subsidiary under it and the Erie Lackawanna until its inclusion in Conrail in 1976.

Sections of the line operate today for both freight and tourists under local county ownership, with talk of future commuter expansion.

Routes

The railroad's main line ran from Scranton to Wilkes-Barre. Other cities served included Dunmore and Pittston.

At its peak, the line carried as many as 4.2 million passengers a year, but following World War II use declined dramatically. In 1964, the Central Scranton Expressway was built over a portion of L&WV right-of-way along Roaring Brook in Scranton. Interstate 81 construction paralleled the north-south route in the 1960s and today the four-lane highway is overtaxed with heavy trucks and cars, local traffic between Wilkes-Barre and Scranton and a deteriorating structure, leaving county planners wishing the L&WV system was retained in its entirety. Original sections of the line out of Scranton to Montage Mountain, Moosic, have been purchased by Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania, and placed back in service with overhead electrified wiring and designated-operator Delaware-Lackawanna Railroad overseeing both freight operations and the county's tourist trolley runs, the Electric City Trolley Museum. The Laurel Line Tunnel (also known as the Crown Avenue Tunnel) in South Scranton, constructed in 1904, remains one of the longest interurban streetcar tunnels ever built, at 4,750-feet. It was recently rehabilitated at a cost of over $3 million.

The cost to restore much of the original line today would be less than expanding Interstate 81, according to Larry Malski, president of the Pennsylvania Northeast Regional Railroad Authority. "I think it's very feasible."

Recent activity
For 2006, a new, 2,000-foot extension connects the county's trolley line from the Steamtown National Historic Site, Scranton, to a new station and trolley restoration facility, immediately adjacent to the PNC Field stadium off Montage Mountain Road, Moosic and home of the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre RailRiders.

The new tracks and trolley barn are part of a $2 million project financed by capital funds from the county and the state. The barn has space for up to nine trolleys, allowing the county museum to spend more time working to bring defunct cars back to running order. It has a gallery where visitors can observe the process.

title: Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley Railroad


text: User talk:68.50.38.242

title: User talk:68.50.38.242


text:
Talk:List of Aeroméxico destinations

 * This list of destinations is not date referenced. Are these destinations being served in 2005 or what? We need to know how current the list is or it is of no value. Ardfern 20:04, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Mapping
Not being from Mexico, Europe in fact, I have no idea where any of the Mexican cities are located, the destinations listed are not dated [as previously mentioned], it is not known the origin of the destinations, It would be wise if someone in the know could produce a route map and date it.
 * Maps showing the destinations geographically have been added. As for actually showing routes, that would take yet another level of development.  I don't know that the locator map functions support this. Josh (talk) 05:10, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

New route
http://airlineroute.net/2013/03/21/am-pps-jun13/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minhtuanvn 1995 (talk • contribs) 10:51, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Source not reliable.--Jetstreamer Talk 12:16, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

AM v AM Connect
I just realized there is a separate page for Aeromexico Connect destinations. Does it make sense to merge with this page as they are commercially operated under the same brand, Aeromexico, and it seems like way too much maintenance to try to keep both lists updated, correct and separate.Keizers (talk) 14:18, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Santo Domingo plus WP:UNBROKEN
I'd like to draw your attention to this edit, the last one in which  persistently changes the destination from the list of cities served by Aeroméxico to the one served by Aeroméxico Connect without providing further evidence (i.e., sources) and contradicting the reference already supporting the entry. Let's see if this user is as skilled in discussing as they are in warring.--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 21:13, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

The flight is served by Aeromexico Connect as you can see on these web pages:

https://booking.aeromexico.com/SSW2010/D5EE/webqtrip.html?execution=e1s1

http://www.vanguardia.com.mx/articulo/aeromexico-inicia-operaciones-en-republica-dominicana

http://www.arecoa.com/aerolineas/2016/03/16/arranca-ofensiva-de-aeromexico-por-santo-domingo-con-cuatro-vuelos-semanales/

http://eldia.com.do/aeromexico-inicia-vuelos-directos-de-santo-domingo-mexico/ Vmzp85 (talk) 21:55, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
 * None of the three last references mentions the word "Connect". The first one seems to be fine and works for me.--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 22:37, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:List of Aeroméxico destinations


text:
Edward Kelly

Edward Kelly may refer to:

Sports

 * Ed Kelly (baseball) (1888–1928), American baseball player
 * Edward I. Kelly Sr. (1921–2004), American racehorse trainer
 * Ed Kelly (born 1948), Irish and American soccer player
 * Eddie Kelly (boxer) (1885–1944), featherweight boxing contender from Buffalo, New York
 * Eddie Kelly (footballer) (born 1951), Scottish footballer
 * Edward Kelly (cricketer) (1932–1998), English cricketer

Politics

 * Ed Kelly (Illinois politician, born 1924), American politician, General Superintendent of the Chicago Park District
 * Edward Joseph Kelly (1876–1950), American politician and mayor of Chicago
 * Edward Kelly (Irish nationalist politician) (1883–1944), Irish Parliamentary Party MP from Donegal
 * Edward Kelly (Monaghan politician) (1883–1972), Irish Fianna Fáil politician from Monaghan
 * Edward A. Kelly (1892–1969), U.S. Representative from Illinois

Religion

 * Edward D. Kelly (1860–1926), American bishop
 * Edward Wendall Kelly (1880–1964), American bishop of the Methodist Church
 * Edward Kelly (bishop) (1890–1956), American Roman Catholic clergyman

Other

 * Edward Kelly (labor leader), American firefighter and trade union leader
 * Edward J. Kelly (died 1877), alleged member of the 19th-century Irish-American Molly Maguires
 * Ned Kelly (1854–1880), Australian bushranger and folk hero
 * Edward Kelly (painter) (born 1946), British painter
 * Edward J. Kelly (1897–1958), former superintendent of National Capital Parks, Washington, DC, after whom a park is named
 * Edward Francis Kelly, American parapsychologist and neuroscientist

title: Edward Kelly


text:
Steve Thomas (television)

Stephen Thomas (born 1952) is an American author, builder and television personality. He was the host of the PBS home renovation series This Old House from 1989 to 2003 and of Renovation Nation, on Discovery's former Planet Green channel, for two seasons (2008–2010) until its cancellation.

Biography
Thomas was born in 1952 in Pomona, California, and is the eldest of six children. His interest in construction and renovation came from his father who used to buy and repair old houses to accommodate his growing family. The grandfather of Steve Thomas, Rooney Thomas was also a do-it-yourself guy and an Episcopal missionary in the Alaskan Arctic.

Education
Thomas received his bachelor's degree in philosophy from The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington. While at Evergreen, he supported himself as a licensed painting contractor and carpenter.

Sailing and construction
At the age of 13 Thomas decided he wanted to go sailing, so he bought his first sailboat. In 1977, Thomas worked as a carpenter on a 75 ft ketch under construction in Antibes, France. He also logged many nautical miles sailing a 43 ft wooden sloop from England to San Francisco via the Panama Canal, Galapagos Islands, Marquesas, and Hawaii. In the early 1980s inspired by an old dream he went on sailing across the Pacific. This voyage led him to Satawal where he met Mau Piailug and spent months learning the ancient technique of star path navigation. He moved to Massachusetts in 1980.

Television
In 1989, Thomas returned to Satawal where he filmed the documentary The Last Navigator with Piailug for the PBS series Adventure. In 1989, while researching his next book, on his family's history in the Alaskan Arctic, Thomas was approached by people from the PBS series This Old House who had already screened more than 400 candidates. He was cast to replace Bob Vila and hosted the show from 1989 through 2003.

Since leaving This Old House Thomas has contributed to programming on The History Channel, hosting and producing the Save Our History series, including one program showing George Washington's estate, and another in the Aleutian Islands of Alaska.

Habitat for Humanity International
Thomas first was involved with Habitat in the early 90s following their stories on This Old House and later partnered with them for a five-part series for Renovation Nation. He currently is Spokesman and Ambassador for Habitat for Humanity International with special emphasis on Women Build, Builders Blitz, and ReStore.

Public speaking and personal appearances
Thomas is a popular speaker on green renovation for builders and homeowners. He is especially interested in green, energy efficient, and low maintenance technologies and materials. He has appeared on television shows such as The Early Show on CBS, The Oprah Winfrey Show, and Jon & Kate Plus 8.

Renovation
In 1980, Thomas moved with his family to Salem, Massachusetts, where he renovated an 1836 Colonial revival in a seaport north of Boston. He now resides in St. George, Maine, with his wife and son Sam. He owns his own construction company, Steve Thomas Builders. A recent project involved renovating a cottage and building a timber-frame barn on Hupper island off the coast of Maine. This became a two-part special on Renovation Nation. He renovated a 1,000 square foot adobe in Santa Fe, NM, which was the cover story in the January 2013 issue of Su Casa magazine. From 2013 to 2015, he renovated Sea Cove Cottage in the middle of a fishing village in Maine.

Awards
Thomas received the 1997–1998 Daytime Emmy Award of 'Outstanding Service Show Host' for This Old House, plus nine nominations for the same category.

Books

 * The Last Navigator : A Young Man, an Ancient Mariner, the Secret of the Sea (1987) ISBN 1-4392-3349-7
 * This Old House Kitchens: A Guide to Design and Renovation (1992) ISBN 0-3168-4107-2
 * This Old House Bathrooms: A Guide to Design and Renovation (1992) ISBN 0-3168-4110-2
 * This Old House Guide to American Houses (1999) ISBN 0-3168-4140-4

title: Steve Thomas (television)


text:
Talk:Arthur Delaney (politician)

Untitled
Anyone have any information on his ancestry? 64.109.248.118 20:07, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I would hope Delaney to be Irish. Other than that, no.RadioKAOS (talk) 09:09, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Arthur Delaney (politician)


text:
Talk:List of Delta Air Lines destinations

Untitled

 * This list of destinations is not date referenced. Are these destinations being served in 2005 or what? We need to know how current the list is or it is of no value. Ardfern 20:07, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

 * LAX to MGA is not speculation, and will be announced. But I'll wait.

Devouring the webs information! 14:07, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added extra destinations for 2008 from the UK, I will update fully when the actual dates of starting are realesed.

 * Delta has launched service to University Park Airport from Atlanta, but I am not sure if it is through DL Connection, or Delta itself.

DL Connection destinations listed here

 * I keep seeing destinations only served by DL Connection on the DL mainline destinations. So whoever is putting destinations only served by DL Connection, please stop putting them. Bucs2004 04:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

So where the hell are the other destinations?
So the question is, where are the Delta Connection flights listed? They sure as hell aren't listed on the Delta Connection page? If someones going to bother removing them from here, then you need to start placing them in a separate list on the Connection page. SiberioS —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.88.79.249 (talk) 19:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC).
 * The DL Conx destinations are listed by the individual carriers (Comair, ASA, etc) WhisperToMe (talk) 18:10, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Merger Complete
Please do not add NWA destinations (hubs, focus cities, etc..) to this page. The airlines have not combined services and the intergration will need to take at least a year or two to complete. NWA is still operating as a seperate carrier (Delta just owns it) for now and its destinations are listed under Northwest Airlines destinations. Please wait until things are finalized then NWA destinations can be put on this page. Thanks! Cashier freak (talk) 06:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Resume Kingston
http://airlineroute.net/2013/03/25/dl-atlkin-dec13/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minhtuanvn 1995 (talk • contribs) 09:37, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Begins Aspen
http://www.stayaspensnowmass.com/delta-air-lines — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.179.4.167 (talk) 10:43, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Few outside Western Hemisphere
They have a lot of destinations, but not a lot outside the Americas. If they keep that way, they won't be able to compete with European and Asian Airlines, in a global market!Mondolkiri1 (talk) 07:04, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

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Requested move 29 May 2018

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved to "List of X destinations" titles. bd2412 T 01:59, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

– American Airlines destinations was recently moved to List of destinations served by American Airlines. To be consistent with this recent move, all other airline destination pages should be moved as well. 2601:183:101:58D0:74A2:9017:34D0:485C (talk) 20:37, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Delta Air Lines destinations → List of destinations served by Delta Air Lines
 * Southwest Airlines destinations → List of destinations served by Southwest Airlines
 * United Airlines destinations → List of destinations served by United Airlines
 * Ryanair destinations → List of destinations served by Ryanair
 * China Southern Airlines destinations → List of destinations served by China Southern Airlines
 * China Eastern Airlines destinations → List of destinations served by China Eastern Airlines
 * EasyJet destinations → List of destinations served by EasyJet
 * Turkish Airlines destinations → List of destinations served by Turkish Airlines
 * Lufthansa destinations → List of destinations served by Lufthansa

 * As noted in the linked move request for American Airlines, there are many more pages than just these in Category:Lists of airline destinations that might be moved. Dekimasu よ! 20:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand that, but there are too many to list in this RM. That's why a handful of pages are listed. --2601:183:101:58D0:74A2:9017:34D0:485C (talk) 21:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Support עם ישראל חי (talk) 22:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose per brevity (WP:CONCISE), common name, and ease of discovery. Correct styling. The "List" red-links could be redirected to the already existing names though. American Airlines should be moved back (consistency wouldn't be a reason, a name moved in a three-person easily disputed RM close shouldn't brings hundreds of others along with it). Randy Kryn (talk) 22:42, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support These are lists and the title should reflect that. Rreagan007 (talk) 01:11, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose To be consistent with all the other articles, List of destinations served by American Airlines should be moved back to the original name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jetstreamer (talk • contribs) 01:52, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support, but instead move to "List of X destinations" - More concise and natural to leave out the "served by" language. Recent move should be reverted and added to this request as it should never have been handled independently of the others for consistency reasons. This result should be applied to all 433 entries in Category:Lists of airline destinations. -- Netoholic @  02:07, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's a major improvement in the name. The "served by" was added in good faith, it just seems to me to be a little outside of encyclopedic language. "Served by" actually passed at the American Airlines page, but without much of a discussion. Good you caught that. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:35, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

 * As I commented at Talk:American Airlines destinations, I prefer no move for brevity and consistency, and I think that moving would be a wasted effort, but could support Netoholic's proposal as second choice. No such user (talk) 10:41, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support. Netoholic's recommendation is a good one. "List of X..." is more consistent with many other 'lists' entries spanning a wide variety of topics and is indeed more concise. I'd be wary of supporting the "served by" language just because the American Airlines destinations article was recently formatted as such. "Served by" strikes me as a bit too commercial. G EORGIAN  Go Dogs  13:14, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Comment i think Netoholic is right so change the move request עם ישראל חי (talk) 15:05, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support moving all of the articles in the list category to titles that show they are lists, as I did at Talk:American Airlines destinations. The titles proposed by Netoholic seem to be preferable. Dekimasu よ! 17:13, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Support If that was the case, then they should be moved. But there are more other airliner destination articles that should be moved. Igor1383 (talk) 20:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Flight to Vienna
This page lists Vienna as a Delta Airlines destination but I can't see any delta flights to/from Vienna. AsimovtheCat (talk) 22:30, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

CGK and DPS?
DL does not fly to Indonesia directly on their own metal; can someone remove it please? 99.153.34.244 (talk) 00:38, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

why are the terminated destinations still there?
Just curious as to why the terminated destinations are still included in this list--seems like it would make more sense to just remove them? Or at the very least, move them to a new section called "terminated Delta destinations" or add a sort button to the table to be able to sort the destinations that are terminated from the seasonal/active destinations? Trashgoose (talk) 17:50, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

 * they are kept on every list so one sees which destination the airline touched. Beware that wikipedia is not a travel guide. Axisstroke (talk) 13:44, 18 December 2023 (UTC)


text:
User:Frugby

Request
This is my user page, please stop vandalising it with your nonsense

Introduction
The "extreme" sport of Frugby is a new wave hybrid sport dreamed up by an elite and forward thinking group of youths in the picturesque town of Oban in the early part of what would turn out to be a most interesting year; the year dot. (Please note the alternative female version of Frugby [played with a Frisbee]was only created in 2003, approximately dot years after the year dot.)

Frugby's Inception
The story of Frugby's birth is a long and complex afair involving love, deceit, treachery and eventually, murder.

The gruesome affair started in the corner of one Jim Maxwell's Higher English class. 4 boys believed themselves so well advanced in the ways of the english language that they took it upon themselves to arrange a game of american football instead of studying the curriculum. These 4 young chaps make up the stable of the Professional Frugby league; the "Elders".

The epic first game of Frugby took place the following weekend in the enigmatic local Rugby pitch. Unfortunately due to so called "family commitments" Andy 'quackface' Lennox was unable to attend.

Despite the fact that it was initially intended as a game of American Football the participating players soon realised how many incredulous rules american football has. So the Frugby Elders (see below for player biographies) decided to form a hybrid sport, combing the ruleless game of Rugby with the game which is actually fun; American Football, hence; Frugby

Playing the Game
Frugby is usually played outside on a field. It is advantageous if this field is either flat or covered with grass, however it it neither essential nor expected. The size of a Frugby field varies hugely depending upon which pitch is free. the average pitch is roughly about 50 yards long and 20 yards wide with a touchdown zone spanning the width of the pitch at each end.

The exact dimensions of the field however are quite irrelevant as there is no rule to stop play if the ball goes out of the field as there is in more traditional sports. It is simply common courtesy to stay within a reasonable distance of the field. Unfortunately playing Frugby soon depletes the reserves of a persons' human decency.

A game of Frugby consists of 2 as-near-as-can-be equal teams. The aim of the game is to score a touchdown by touching the ball down in the opponents touchdown zone. This scores a single point. The game finishes when one team has scored 10 points.

Far and away the most complex situation in the game is the start off. Each team divides itself in 2 placing one group on each end of the field. The ball is then placed in the centre. Both teams then rush to the ball when the game is started. This revolutionary method of "kicking off" allows the possibility of tackling before the game has even started.

The only other situation which has happened more than once in frugby league history is the "one yarder" which is played at every opportunity due to its excitement factor. Simply put, a line out is carried out on the one yard line with the team who can voice their interpretation of the preceding play the loudest having possesion of the ball.

Underhand Play
Dirty play is not only encouraged in Frugby, it is almost mandatory.

Forms of dirty play can involve numerous manoeuvres dreamt up by the players.

These moves can be as simple as a well placed kick to the knee cap or a running front flip onto a player who is involved in a pile on.

A particularly dubious manoeuvre can be seen below. Note how this mischievious character thinks he has gotten away with the "kick to the head". He was later repremanded with a swift congratulations and a pat on the back.

There have been many many serious injuries throughout the history of the sport. These range from the "serous groinal injury" sustained by Robbie Kupris to the many times Spaz Boi (Matt Breuer) has bled on everyone throughout a match.

Of note however is the recent injury of Andy Lennox. This particular incident was the first time a bone has been broken (officialy) in the sports' history. we hope, with god willing, that it is the first of many. Since then, we have had dislocated shoulders, lost teeth, and minor suffocation.

The Elders
The Elders are the group of four heroes who founded the game of Frugby. A brief Biography of each member follows.

Robbie Kupris

Nick;Real American Hero

Special Move;The Fire Hydraunt

Quote;''its time to kick ass and chew bubble gum. And im all outta gum''

Andy Lennox

Nick;Quackface

Special Move;atomic super kick

quote;let's tango mango

Donald Watt

Nick;Goliath

Special Move;the Train

quote;arghhh **** my ****** back!

Alasdair Wilson

Nick;the Admiral

Special Move;eye gouge

quote;lets make a rule called flip flopping

Notable Members
Chris Campbell;too fast for his own good

Steven Brady;yeah, you better run

John Maclean; adds a touch of class

Matt Breuer;bleeds. a lot

Steven Campbell; takes a beating like a man

Steven Kersley; see Campbell;Chris

Richard Baker;he's ginger and is a Ninja.

Frugby; the Future
With the recent advent of the all star professional frugby league ( NB; in this sense please note that "proffesional" refers not to the players being paid in money but to them maintaining their health) the future could not be brighter.

There is also speculation of a documentary on the sport being produced and aired on channel 4.

The players however wish to maintain the style of play the sport is becoming infamous for and do not wish to "dumb down" to appeal to a wider market.

To conclude ; Frugby is not just a sport, it is a way of Life.

Frugby Webpage
www.frugby.cjb.net

title: User:Frugby


text:
User:Johan Elisson

no:Bruker:Johan Elisson sv:Användare:Johan Elisson

title: User:Johan Elisson


text:
Talk:List of TAP Air Portugal destinations

Date reference

 * This list of destinations is not date referenced. Are these destinations being served in 2005 or what? We need to know how current the list is or it is of no value. Ardfern 20:08, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * It has a date, now!

Reliable sources
It would be more interesting for the editors in focusing on finding reliable sources for unsourced destinations, instead of wiping them out of the list. Thanks.--Jetstreamer (talk) 14:56, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Begins Boavista and Tangier
http://airlineroute.net/2013/05/06/tp-bvctng-w13/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.26.192.163 (talk) 11:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Source not reliable.--Jetstreamer Talk 11:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

FYI - This is one of the most reliable aviation sources, used by professionals throughout the industry Ross-shire (talk) 14:05, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Both this comment and the one below show that you are not familiar with WP:AIRLINE and WT:AIRLINE. A discussion took place more than a year ago and it was decided to use Airline Route as a source. My comment above is previous to that discussion.--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 14:52, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Country Flags
Jetstreamer - could you advise why you have removed the country flags which I added? It makes reference much easier and is a method used on other destinations pages Thanks Ross-shire (talk) 14:08, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I already pointed out to WP:AIRLINE-DEST-CONTENT and MOS:FLAGS in my edit summaries. Flags are not to be used in articles for airline destinations. If some of these still include flags is just because nobody took the time to update the tables to the new format (which can be found in the first of the wikilinks I mentioned).--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 14:49, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Archived references not used in the article

--Jetstreamer $Talk$ 14:27, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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Aloud

Aloud is an American indie rock band known for its songwriting and vocal prowess, as well as using a two lead singer approach.

Founded in 2002 by Jen de la Osa (lead vocals, guitar, keys) and Henry Beguiristain (lead vocals, guitar, keys) in Boston, Massachusetts, the group is rounded out by bassist/backing vocalist Charles Murphy and drummer Chris Jago. In 2017, the band expanded its lineup to include Alanah Ntzouras Maguire on saxophone and Vanessa Acosta on trumpet. Aloud has released music under the Lemon Merchant Records label since 2006, with the exception of their fourth studio album It's Got To Be Now.

Their sixth studio album Apollo 6 is due to be released May 2023.

2002-2006: Formation and early years
Aloud was formed in May 2002 in Boston, Massachusetts, by lead vocalists/guitarists and primary songwriters, Jen de la Osa and Henry Beguiristain, who met as teenagers in the Miami-based band Rain. Aloud evolved out of an earlier version of the group named Feedback, which included bassist Roy Fontaine. Rob Acevedo, who drummed for Rain, was recruited to play drums for the fledgling band on an indefinite, but temporary basis. The four spent the summer working on a home-recorded four song demo titled Don't Trust the Radio, which was released on July 31, 2002, and was briefly sold at shows in the Boston area. In early 2003, Aloud recorded another four song demo titled Pretty Little Picture. Rob Acevedo would be replaced by Eric Anderson on drums before Ross Lohr was taken on near the end of 2003 as a permanent member.

The Sooner It Comes and Leave Your Light On
With the addition of Lohr, Aloud recorded The Sooner It Comes, a six-song EP, with producer Ian Hughes in early 2004. Aloud expanded their touring area to a greater portion of New England and New York City. That same year, Aloud met Hugh Wyman of the Boston band Baby Strange. Wyman became a frequent collaborator and adviser. He would eventually produce Aloud's debut album Leave Your Light On in 2005.

The band made its first real mark after releasing their debut album Leave Your Light On on May 2, 2006, to positive press and national airplay on college radio. Aloud toured the record around the Northeast United States till the end of 2006 while concurrently working on material for their next record.

2007-2009: Fan The Fury and a new lineup
In April 2007, Aloud made it to the semi-final round of the 29th annual WBCN Rock & Roll Rumble, beating out 15 other groups for the wildcard slot. Jen de la Osa was nominated for Best Female Vocalist by the Boston Phoenix that month.

De la Osa and Beguiristain spent the rest of 2007 writing material for a second album, eventually choosing to record it that Fall at Fireplace Studios in New York City with Sony mix engineer Caleb Shreve (under the pseudonym Chuck Brody). Between recording sessions, Aloud made their first appearance at the CMJ Music Marathon that October.

Fan The Fury, was released on March 25, 2008. Fan The Fury contained more overt political themes than any of Aloud's previous work, and was praised as a more mature offering than Leave Your Light On. A national tour to support the album followed. Hard Up In The 2000s, a film documenting the Spring leg of the tour, was released on September 12, 2008.

In October 2008, it was revealed Aloud was developing a multimedia live performance of Fan The Fury titled I Just Want To Witness..., named after a lyric in the songs "Witness" and "Justice & Forgiveness". The show integrated Aloud's live performance of Fan The Fury in its entirety with corresponding films, and was developed with filmmaker Johnathan Carr. Films were contributed by Johnathan Carr himself as well as directors Erin Bowser, Mike Pecci, Chris March, and animators Kristin Osiecki and Timothy Scholl. I Just Want To Witness... debuted in Boston on November 18, 2008. While this has been the only full performance of I Just Want To Witness..., Aloud later performed the majority of the show in New York in 2009.

Music from Fan The Fury was heavily featured in Bad Habit Productions' presentation of The Laramie Project.

Lineup Changes and Live 2009
The latter half 2008 saw significant changes to Aloud's core lineup. Bassist Roy Fontaine parted ways with the group in September 2008. Subsequently, Aloud toured as a three-piece during the Fall 2008 leg of the Fan The Fury tour. After the tour, former Baby Strange bassist Tim Hare filled in on bass for live shows for the remainder of the year.

Ross Lohr left the group shortly after Fontaine's departure. His final performance with the group was January 29, 2009 in Allston, MA. He still appeared in the music video for the song "Julie". Elaborating in an interview a year later, Henry and Jen stated Lohr left the band amicably "the day after we filmed the 'Julie' video" because he no longer enjoyed performing with the band and wished to dedicate more of his time to philanthropy.

Aloud performed the third and fourth legs of the Fan The Fury tour with a rotating cast of live members: Jonathan Schmidt (from the band Morningwood), Rob Lynch (ex-Harris), Travis Richter (from the bands The Motion Sick, Naked On Roller Skates, and Kingsley Flood), Jesse James Salucci (The Lights Out) and Tommy Mazalewski alternated on drums. Tim Hare, Ryan Majoris, and Matthew Girard (from the band The Motion Sick and Golden Bloom) alternated on bass.

Bassist Charles Murphy began performing with the group in October 2009, joining as a full-fledged member of the band shortly thereafter.

The free EP Live 2009 was released at the end of 2009, capping off Aloud's Fan The Fury era. The EP contained performances from one of the final shows of that tour at Howler's Coyote Cafe in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on November 18, 2009. The live show was recorded, engineered, and mixed by Bengt Alexander. The EP was released to the public as a free digital download on December 31, 2009.

2009-2011: Exile
From April 2009 to July 2010, Henry and Jen worked with producer Daniel Nicholas Daskivich on completing the third Aloud release, Exile. Teasing their work on the album in interviews, the band indicated Exile would be sonically different from previous Aloud releases.

The recording process initially began as "therapy", but quickly stretched on over the course of a year. Aloud's touring members and friends appeared as guests on several tracks, with Daskivich tackling the majority of the drumming on Exile. The group worked on the record song by song, often building instrumentation around an acoustic guitar. As a result, the record featured material that was sparser and far more experimental than previous albums.

The songs loosely drew upon de la Osa and Beguiristain's respective experiences as US-born children of Cuban exiles. Further inspiration was taken from Reinaldo Arenas’ memoir, Before Night Falls. Aloud launched their first crowdfunding campaign on the Kickstarter platform to pay for manufacturing of the record and defray costs associated with the tour in support of the album.

Exile was released on October 12, 2010, garnering some of the band’s strongest reviews, often focusing on Aloud’s expanded musical versatility. The subsequent US coast-to-coast US tour ran from October 2010 through January 2011, beginning at the 2010 CMJ Music Marathon. A second coast-to-coast leg included Aloud’s SXSW debut, and ran from mid-February through March 2011.

Aloud released a non-album single, “The Cash and the Pearls”, after the second leg of the tour. The recording reunited de la Osa and Beguiristain with Ross Lohr in the studio. Aloud celebrated the single's release with a tour of the south and midwest, followed by a month-long residency in Boston.

De la Osa and Beguiristain were approached earlier in the year by the Berklee College of Music to participate in BANDED, a documentary intended to become a part of the school's PULSE curriculum. The months-long project followed them and four other groups from the Boston area to document the life of a song, from its genesis to completion in the recording studio. The project culminated with the recording of "You Will Know" at Mad Oak Studios with head engineer Benny Grotto. Grotto encouraged Aloud to record the song as live as possible in the studio. The band found the experience enjoyable and booked a second session with Grotto at Mad Oak to record "Such a Long Time" in the same manner.

2012-2015: A rock n’ roll band making music live
De la Osa and Beguiristain spent January and February 2012 writing new material for a follow-up to Exile. They resumed their tour schedule in March and began road-testing material which would eventually make up It’s Got To Be Now. In March they performed at Boston to Austin, a SXSW party produced by DigBoston and sponsored by Converse. There, they shared the stage with other Boston-based acts OldJack, Lake Street Dive, Bad Rabbits, The Wandas, and Moe Pope & Quills.

To mark their tenth anniversary as a band, the Boston Phoenix released a 10th anniversary EP collecting songs which “define the band’s evolution over the past decade”. A retrospective film directed by Stephen LoVerme, titled Aloud: I Can’t Believe That Worked, began production. Though the film was indefinitely shelved, a trailer was included with the release of the Boston Phoenix EP. The group was nominated in the Boston Phoenix's Best Music Poll for Best Indie/Powerpop Act.

Frank Hegyi joined as Aloud's permanent drummer in June 2012. Aloud continued touring throughout the summer and fall, debuting and refining songs. “You Will Know” was formally released as a 7-inch vinyl single in September, with “Such A Long Time” as its b-side.

It's Got To Be Now
Aloud returned to Mad Oak Studios with co-producer Benny Grotto in December 2012. In the same fashion as “Such A Long Time”, their performances were recorded live in the studio. To maintain the live element, percussionist Andy Wong was invited to record miscellaneous percussion with the band. Vocals were recorded at Serious Business in New York under the supervision of co-producer Charles Newman. Additional overdubs were tracked at Mad Oak Studios with Grotto in January 2013. In sum, the album took six days total to record. “This is what we’ve set out to make here,” the band wrote to fans at the time, “an album that sounds like a band playing music in a room together.”

It’s Got To Be Now’s first single, “A Little Bit Low”, was released in December 2013. The release of “A Little Bit Low” launched a Kickstarter campaign to help bring the album to completion. It’s Got To Be Now was released on April 1, 2014, to positive reception. The band toured on the record throughout the east coast, releasing four singles through the life of the album.

In February 2015, Aloud recorded a Converse Rubber Tracks session at Q Division Studios with Benny Grotto. The session yielded basic tracks for the songs “Empty House” and “Falling Out of Love”.

Frank Hegyi departed the band in May 2015. His final appearance with the band was on an episode of The Steve Katsos Show. According to Beguiristain, Hegyi simply felt it was time for him to step away from the band. “Having [Frank] around was pretty vital to us feeling good about being band at a time when we needed it,” he wrote in a post on Aloud's website. “We owe him for that, and we’re very grateful he decided to stick around as long as he did.”

2015-present: Virtual reality and "BOS to LOS"
Chuck Ferreira became Aloud's drummer after Hegyi's departure. The band maintained an active tour schedule while working on new music for their next record. In October, they returned to the CMJ Music Marathon. In January 2016, the band released a live video for the song "In Spite of Language" for NPR Music's Tiny Desk Contest.

FOOL VR
In April 2016, Aloud announced they would collaborate on a virtual reality music video with director Skye Von, producer Tanya Leal-Soto, and Charles Newman. FOOL VR, as the collective was dubbed, partnered with the New York Institute of Technology, Evolving Technologies Corporation, and others to create a 360-degree video for the Aloud song "Falling Out of Love". A crowdfunding campaign was launched in April 2016 to help fund the production. Aloud toured and held events in New England, New York, and the west coast that spring to promote the project and demonstrate the technology using Mobile phones and Google Cardboard. Falling Out of Love: The VR Experience won Indiegogo and Independent film project's 2016 Fellowship. Falling Out of Love: The VR Experience is currently in post-production.

A 360° music video for "The Wicked Kind", another FOOL VR project directed by Skye Von, debuted September 2016 as an official selection of the Kaleidoscope 2016 Summer Showcase. The video toured with the showcase through North America, Europe, and Asia.

Fifth Studio album and "Agua Mala"
Aloud began work on their fifth studio album at the rebuilt Mad Oak Studios in Allston in August 2016, with Benny Grotto producing again. The band posted realtime updates from the studio via their Instagram account. Their next album is set to feature a sound more heavily rooted in Memphis soul. The record is currently being mixed by Guy Massey, known for his work with The Libertines, Ray Davies, and The Beatles.

In February 2017, Aloud released the charity single “Agua Mala”, recorded in conjunction with NYC-based group Cold Blood Club. All proceeds from sales of the single and the release show at the Knitting Factory were sent to the United Way of Genesee County's Flint Water Fund to aid their work in the Flint water crisis. "Almost three years later," de la Osa remarked at the time, "and nothing significant has improved. Flint is still without clean drinking water and [there's] very little accountability. This shit makes you want to scream."

Empty House tour and move to Los Angeles
Shortly after the release of “Agua Mala”, Aloud announced they were permanently relocating the band from Boston to Los Angeles. Their Boston-area send-off was on March 4, 2017, at the Plough and Stars, performing with Peter Buzzelle. "Boston is the only place which, for better or for worse, has ever truly felt like home to me," Beguiristain wrote in a blog post, however adding that Boston had "become a tough place to live in, let alone maintain a functioning, working band."

A coast-to-coast US tour in support of the “Empty House”/”Falling Out of Love” double A-side vinyl single kicked off April 24, 2017 in New York. For the tour, Aloud partnered with the San Francisco-based Acid VR to document the tour with a Ricoh Theta 360° camera. A 360° video of Aloud rehearsing “Empty House” was released ahead of the Empty House tour. A 360° video for an acoustic version of “Falling Out of Love” performed at the Griffith Park Zoo was released at the tour's conclusion.

A music video for "Falling Out of Love" was released on February 14, 2018, to coincide with the song's full release.

Discography
Studio albums

 * Apollo 6 (2023)
 * Sprezzatura (2020)
 * It's Got To Be Now (2014)
 * Exile (2010)
 * Fan The Fury (2008)
 * Leave Your Light On (2006)

Current members

 * Henry Beguiristain: vocals, guitar, piano/keys (2002–present)
 * Jen de la Osa: vocals, guitar, piano/keys (2002–present)
 * Charles Murphy: bass, mouth sounds (2009–present)
 * Chris Jago: drums, percussion (2017–present)
 * Alanah Ntzouras Maguire: saxophone (2017–present)

Touring and session musicians

 * Andy Bergman: saxophone (2016–present)
 * Maxwell Butler: keys (2012–present)
 * Chuck Ferreira: drums, percussion (2018–present)
 * Eric Ortiz: trumpet (2016–present)

Past members

 * Vanessa Acosta: trumpet (2017–2022)
 * Chuck Ferreira: drums, percussion (2015–2017)
 * Roy Fontaine: bass, backing vocals (2002–2008)
 * Frank Hegyi: drums, percussion (2012–2015)
 * Ross Lohr: drums, percussion (2003–2009)

Trademark
Issues surfaced in early 2005 with an electro-pop French duo going by the same moniker. The duo consisted of Cyril Bodin and Gregory Louis. Paperwork submitted by Bodin and Louis to the United States Patent and Trademark Office (SN: 76580505) is open to the public and can be viewed at the United States Patent and Trademark Office.

The main argument was in first use dates. Bodin and Louis listed September 23, 2003 as the date of first use. De la Osa and Beguiristain argued their first use in commerce of the name “Aloud” had been used prior (May, 2002). Bodin and Louis' application has remained in stasis January 21, 2005. However, Bodin and Louis broke the group up in 2005, making the point moot and clearing the way for the American 'Aloud' to use the name without any foreseeable hindrance.

title: Aloud


text:
Javorník (Jeseník District)

Javorník (Jauernig) is a town in Jeseník District in the Olomouc Region of the Czech Republic. It has about 2,600 inhabitants. The historic town centre is well preserved and is protected by law as an urban monument zone.

Administrative parts
The villages of Bílý Potok, Horní Hoštice, Travná and Zálesí are administrative parts of Javorník.

Etymology
The town's name is derived from javor, i.e. 'maple'.

Geography
Javorník is located about 23 km northwest of Jeseník and 90 km north of Olomouc, on the border with Poland. The town proper is situated in the valley of the creek Javornický potok.

The larger part of the municipal territory lies in the Golden Mountains; the eastern part lies in the Vidnava Lowlands. The highest point is the mountain Borůvková hora at 899 m above sea level, located on the Czech-Polish border.

13–14th centuries
The first written mention of Javorník is from 1290. However, it was probably established earlier, because the Church of the Holy Cross dates from the 1260s. A medieval fortress was built here at the turn of the 13th and 14th century and was first mentioned in 1307. The village and then the castle were owned by the Bishopric in Wrocław. Part of the settlement in the castle grounds gradually took on an urban character, and in 1373 Javorník was first mentioned as a town, although it was not granted town privileges until 1549.

15–17th centuries
In 1428, during the Hussite Wars, Javorník and its fortress were conquered by the Hussites, who held it until 1432. In 1432, Javorník was returned to the bishops of Wrocław. In 1509, when Prince-Bishop Johann V Thurzo came to power, new development occurred. He had rebuilt the fortress into a Renaissance castle, known as Jánský Vrch. He also helped develop silver mining and establish hammer mills in the area.

In 1576, most of the houses were destroyed by a fire. Worse disasters came in the 17th century, when the town was hit by Swedish incursions during the Thirty Years' War and the plague epidemic. However, the town soon recovered, even though it was considered ugly. Unlike other towns in the area, Javorník avoided Northern Moravia witch trials.

18th–19th centuries
In the 1720s, new representative building were built in Javorník, which reflected economic prosperity. The development of the town was stopped by the Silesian Wars. After the Prussian victory in the First Silesian War in 1742, Habsburg monarchy lost nearly all of its Silesian possessions. However, Javorník together with the so-called Bohemian Silesia remained under Habsburg control. After the Seven Years' War, during the rule of Prince-Bishop Philipp Gotthard of Schaffgotsch, a new prosperous period for the town began. In 1767, he moved his court on the Jánský Vrch and Javorník became not only the administrative centre, but also the cultural centre of Upper Silesia. Schaffgotsch hosted here many artistic personalities, the most famous was Carl Ditters von Dittersdorf.

After Schaffgotsch's death in 1795, Javorník partially lost its importance, but remained economic centre with developed crafts and textile manufactories. In 1825 a devastating fire once again ravaged the town. Javorník was recovering only slowly and never regained the same importance in the region as it had during the golden age in the second half of the 18th century. Most of the manufacturies never fully recovered. In 1897, the local railway was built, which helped to create various smaller businesses.

20th century
According to the Austrian census of 1910 the town had 2,052 inhabitants, 1,956 of whom had permanent residence there. Census asked people for their native language, 1,956 (100%) were German-speaking. Most populous religious group were Roman Catholics with 2,019 (98.4%).

During World War II, approximately 30 French and Soviet POWs were interned at the old town prison in Javorník. Other and larger prisoner-of-war camps were located in Zálesí, Travná, and in the hamlet of Račí údolí.

From 1938 to 1945 it was one of the municipalities in Sudetenland. By 1938, local ethnic-German population became overwhelmingly pro-Nazi with many locals joining the Sudetendeutsches Freikorps, a para-military Nazi-Germany sponsored and trained organization that was conducting terrorist attacks against the Czechoslovak authorities. One of the most notable attacks of the Freikorps in the town took place on 22 September 1938. A group of 12 members of the Czechoslovak Border Guard was retreating through the town after being attacked from Germany when it was ambushed by over 100 local members of Freikorps. The Czechoslovak soldiers were disarmed and abducted to Germany where they were interned by local authorities in the concentration camp in Paczków.

After 1945, under the Beneš decrees most Sudeten Germans were held at several internment camps and then expelled. Many of them were also beaten and killed by numerous militias and paramilitary groups with strong ties to the Communist Party and the Red Army. The town was repopulated by Czech families.

Following the Communist coup d'état of 1948, Czechoslovak government confiscated most of the property which belonged to the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Wrocław, their forests were divided among state-owned enterprises. No larger company remained in Javorník.

Economy
By the mid-1960s, the only major employers in Javorník were a small manufacturer of metal furniture and a company producing stuffed toys. As the social conditions in the town continued to deteriorate, in the 1980s the Communist government decided to build here a subsidiary of MEZ Postřelmov (electrical engineering plants). After the Velvet Revolution in 1989, the company found it hard to compete in the new economic environment and closed down in the early 1990s. At present, the economy relies mainly on tourism.

Transport
The I/60 road from Jeseník to the Czech-Polish border runs through the town. There is the Bílý potok / Paczków road border crossing.

Javorník is the starting point and terminus of the railway line of local importance from Lipová-lázně.

Sights
The castle complex of Jánský Vrch is the main landmark of the town, protected as a national cultural monument. The castle is open to the public. It containts one of the largest collections of pipes in the Czech lands and a collection of curtains and net curtains.

The Church of the Holy Trinity is the landmark of the town square. It was built in the Baroque style in 1716–1718. The early Gothic cemetery Church of the Holy Cross dates from the first half of the 13th century.

The town hall on the town square is a pseudo-Mannerist house from the early 20th century. Other valuable buildings in the town centre are burgher houses from the 19th century with medieval cores, mostly in Mannerist and Empire styles.

The Neoclassical monument of Carl Ditters von Dittersdorf dates from 1793. It was built as a thank you to Count Philipp Gotthard von Schaffgotsch for the establishment of the Jánský vrch settlement. The late baroque Ditters' House from the 1780s is also an architectural monument. Today it houses a primary art school.

Notable people

 * Philipp Gotthard von Schaffgotsch (1716–1795), German count, Prince-Bishop of Wrocław
 * Carl Ditters von Dittersdorf (1739–1799), composer; Kapellmeister at Jánský Vrch in 1770–1794
 * Johann Nepomuk Rust (1775–1840), Austrian surgeon
 * Joseph Freiherr von Eichendorff (1788–1857), German poet; stayed at Jánský Vrch in 1856–1857
 * Joseph Christian Freiherr von Zedlitz (1790–1862), Austrian writer and poet
 * Melchior von Diepenbrock (1798–1853), cardinal, Prince-Bishop of Wrocław; died here
 * Robert Theer (1808–1863), Austrian painter and lithographer
 * Adolf Theer (1811–1868), Austrian painter and lithographer
 * Albert Theer (1815–1902), Austrian painter and lithographer
 * Emil Sax (1845–1927), economist
 * Adolf Bertram (1859–1945), German cardinal, Archbishop of Wrocław; died in Jánský Vrch and was buried here

Twin towns – sister cities
Javorník is twinned with:
 * 🇵🇱 Otmuchów, Poland
 * 🇵🇱 Złoty Stok, Poland

title: Javorník (Jeseník District)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michel Delon

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Woohookitty 09:27, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Michel Delon
Delete nn bio ad. Made by a blank IP whose only other edits were of the company this guy owns. Karmafist 21:11, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment Ad and worthy of deletion in its current form. The only link is from Detroit Fashion Week so it may be worth rewriting if he is significant enough in fashion. However, a quick Google showed that there is a French professor at the University of Paris who has published several works on the Enlightenment see . Perhaps we should create a disambiguation for this page. C 00:50, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Very clear delete.— Encephalon |  ζ   01:01:36, 2005-08-21 (UTC)
 * Delete Dottore So 05:50, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Alf 07:59, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Disambiguate per above. Wiping all spam ofcourse. Zanaq 00:56, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable ad copy. (Oops! Forgot to sign my name yesterday, sorry!) Friejose 15:18, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User:Tintin1107/Naoomal

Naoomal Jaoomal Makhija (born on April 17, 1904, Karachi - died on July 28, 1980, Bombay) was India's first opening batsman in Test cricket

Naoomal scored 33 and 25 opening India's innings in their first ever Test, at Lord's in 1932. He also shared reasonable stands of 39 and 41 with his opening partner Janardan Navle in the two innings. Naoomal was dimunitve, defensive batsman who strong point was the cut. He made 1297 runs in the tour. Wisden also had a few nice words for his fielding.

When England returned the visit in 1933-34, Jeoomal missed the first Test. He scored 2 and 43 at Calcutta but in Madras, he was hit on the face by Nobby Clark. The injury ended his innings and his Test career.

His highest score in first class cricket was a 203* scored in four and a half hours for Sind against Nawanagar in 1938-39. The Sind total of 326 was then a world record for the lowest first class score to include a double hundred.

He coached Pakistan in the late 1950s. He was one of the oldest players to attend the Golden Jubilee Test in 1980 to mark the fiftieth year of the BCCI.

Note : Naoomal's obituaries in Wisden Almanack and Wisden Cricket Monthly both give his date of death as July 18.

title: User:Tintin1107/Naoomal


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