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Talk:Dungeons & Dragons Online

Terms in game
As there seems to be an acceptance of the current version I am removing the Disputed tag I put in.

I have never heard "ransacked" however nearly everytime I am in a party someone is spouting shiney though I rarely hear sparkly I do on occasion. Why do the terms Shiney and sparkely keep getting removed?

Just because the developers didnt design it doesnt mean its not part of the game, once you allow players to communicate you add a element to the game that is beyond the programing. Developers didnt coin the term "nerfing" reffering to changes in MMORPGS but everyone knows what a "nerfed" item is after a patch.

Citing new terms created by the game reeks of subjectivity. It's akin to saying that the game is creating new pop-culture terms or something. While terms like "nerf" have become common among MMO gamers, citing that a relatively new game has created terms is too forward. I recommend the section be slashed out entirely, as it has little to no bearing on the game's article. TotalTommyTerror 07:01, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

There is no refferance to any other game having the terms Shiney or sparkely used to describe mob dropped loot/collectables. In this game however the terms are prevolant, the point of "nerfing" was that it too was a term created by MMORPG's that is now commonplace but was not written into the code of the game by the developers. The two terms are constantly and consistantly used, they should be included, they are as much a part of the day to day gameplay as alignments, you could say moreso than alignments as with the exception of a few rare weapons that most players will never use alignment plays no role in gameplay.

Further it is not subjective at all, to say that it is the best game ever, or that it was the worst DD game since the first edition red dragon boxed set would be subjective. The terms did not exist in thier useage prior to the game now they do.

Edit: I think the main problem lies with the section title "New Terms Created by Game". While the term "ransacking" may have found a new use in computer gaming terminology, a quick Google of the term will show that the word "ransack" originated from the Old Norse "rannsaka", which was adopted into Middle English as "ransaken". This word was around for many hundreds of years before the concept of PnP DnD was invented.

Edit: Perhaps a better title might be in order for that section? Different games really do tend to generate their own references, especially to mechanics peculiar to them.

While the term "ransacking" was not created by the game, it is the first MMO to use the concept. It consists of looting a chest enough times that eventually, you don't get anything out of it. "Nerfing", however, is almost never used in DDO, that originates from other MMORPG's. Watersoftheoasis (talk) 17:17, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Changes
I took the liberty to reformat the presentation of player races and classes. I'm not extremely comfortable with a bullet point presentation but it looks better than just listing races and classes in a paragraph and gives it a cleaner look.

Also, I'm thinking it might be nice to add a section that either details or notes differences between the pen and paper eberron game and this one. There are differences in the rule set and it may actually be of interest for people familiar with the 3.5 pnp rules.

I also removed the paragraph listing monsters in the game. I think it might be better to create a separate page for monsters that appear in DnDO or just put a referrer to the DnD monster list. I'll cite the World of Warcraft page as an example in that line of thought. Another mmo; it doesn't list every race on the page, albeit the game seems to be large enough to demand that every single race and monster get it's own freaking wiki. (rolling eyes)...

TotalTommyTerror 09:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Added the alignment section. I can't honestly remember what all the available alignments are, so if anybody knows for sure feel free to add/subtract to the list.

TotalTommyTerror 10:25, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Took the liberty of adding a paragraph mentioning that there are differences between the DDO rules and D&D 3.5 tabletop rules. Rule differences in general were an important topic of discussion both during beta and after release, so I thought they deserved a sentence or two. DDO is also unusual among computer games in that a fair number of its players also play the tabletop game, so are prone to noticing rule differences between the two.

In addition, I removed a sentence that commented that about "a notion contrary to claims made during the Beta period of the game in which players were told that they were not included due to graphic and balance issues." It's not obvious the statement is verifiable, and in fact the reasons for why Monks and Druids aren't in the game are debatable. It's quite possible, for example, that it was early graphic and balance issues that kept these classes from advancing past the concept stages. So the statement that it's a "contrary notion" is the authors opinion, not necessarily a fact.

If such a statement is desired, I'd suggest instead including an objective factual sentence. For instance: "The fact that Druids and Monks are missing from DDO has been discussed and debated frequently on DDO related forums, with some players concerned about the reasoning behind their absence."

Just a suggestion.

Dugwiki 20:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The DDO Wiki details the primary differences between PnP D&D and DDO (http://ddo.enterwiki.net/page/PnP_differences). All in all it would amount to a pretty significant addition to the DDO article here, one which I suspect would distract more than anything from the main thrust of the general information about the game here. Having said that I was pondering, earlier, that a link or some minor section that points to that information in the DDO Wiki might be appropriate. If for no other reason than the fact that someone there is dutifully updating the information there and likely would become stale if repeated here without the same ongoing attention.

I would also remark that DDO isn't alone in having significant numbers of D&D PnP players. Pretty much any D&D video game finds a notable amount of said players who manage to debate, often at great length, about rules implementation regardless of the game. It certainly isn't a facet that DDO can claim all to its own *grin*.

Finally, regarding the Monk/Druid class not be included; the druid class itself was more or less deferred due to both graphic and balance issues during the beta period (I don't recall what the issues were for the monk, or that Turbine ever mentioned anything for the class specifically) though I for one remember (with 95% certainty) that Turbine did make a post to that effect regarding the Druid class.

Unfortunately they removed the beta forums so there are MANY things they said that can no longer be substantiated now -- at least, not very easily. With that in mind, it's just as well that the "contrary notion" portion was removed even if accurate, due to the inability to verify it, unequivocally.

I'm also not all that convinced that your suggested "objective factual sentence" provides any real information, and think it would be better to just leave a comment absent (from either direction) until something more substantial can be provided to verify the reasoning for the Monk/Druid absence. If we were talking about the Kennedy assasination or something, some mention about doubt or hints of conspiratorial notions might be worthwhile, but it doesn't seem to have much value in the DDO article (IMHO).

-D

I agree with the above suggestion that the DDO article here doesn't need to go into great detail on the differences between DDO and D&D. A link to, say, the DDO Wiki would work fine.

And as far as the Monk/Druid information, I think it's probably best to simply leave it as saying the Monk and Druid classes aren't in DDO. If someone finds a dev quote they can footnote that explains why the devs say they're missing, include that too. I'd stay away from speculation, though, on whether or not the devs are "lying" about their reasoning, etc. I was in beta myself, and I do remember the devs vaguely mentioning some general issues with the Monk and Druid, such as a problem implementing shapechanging and concerns about Monk loot and abilities and animations. If the "Book of Dev" is still around somewhere, it might have some of those quotes. Dugwiki 15:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Monster Compendium
the ddo article doesn't seem to be the right place for this as it's getting way too big very fast, it is also just a copy paste from the forum mainly. creating a seperate article seems better in my opinion. Boneyard 09:17, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree, this is not the place for the Monster Compendium. If it is moved and more monsters are added, it might also be a good idea to scale it down slightly i.e. less detail, with a link to the ddo forum. --Smautf 13:09, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Doubly agreed.Doidimais Brasil 04:54, September 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * i pointed it out twice to the person doing it on his talkpage, but he ignores that and just keeps adding monsters. Boneyard 08:14, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Be bold in updating pages. So I was and deleted the section.  The "Monster Compendium" was deeply flawed.  First, it's pretty obviously a copyright violation.  For example, the Minotaur entry was directly copied from " Samera, Community Specialist" over at ddo.com.  Second (and more minorly), the section title is based on D&D terminology; an encyclopedia entry should speak plainly, "List of Enemies in the Game".  Third, the list was woefully incomplete (unsurprising given that the game hasn't been released).  "An very incomplete list of enemies in the game" isn't very useful.  Fourth, by quoting the original developers comments and strategy tips, you aren't adding factual information, you're adding the claims of one group of people.  The resulting entries had a serious Neutral point of view problem.  Finally, the entries simply aren't encyclopedic.  Unfortunately I can't clearly describe what's wrong with their presence, but if I'm going to a a reference work to look up a game, I really don't care about a list of monsters in the game.  I care about who designed it, what is noteworthy about it, if any other games were influenced by it and what it was influenced by.  Alan De Smet | Talk 22:14, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
 * well thanks i guess, stuff like this is in my opinion tricky choosing between be bold and don't bite the newbies. Boneyard 08:21, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
 * nice one. i'll remove the "attention see talk" sign from the article - you solved the problem we had. i'm sure the article will receive some attention when the game enters beta. Smautf 20:29, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
 * On the subject of the monster compendium, there is a wiki all for ddo where that would much better be placed, ther an interwiki link for something like 'list of monsters' and such, perhaps some wikifying of the article with links to definitions of things like class enhancements on the DDOwiki mught be on order - it seems pretty developed 24.237.6.216 22:54, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

More analysis
I think this article could use a section analysing the differences between the implementation of the 3.5 rules in DDO and the official 3.5 rules, as well as a comparison to other computer games that have attempted to implement the same rules (e.g., Neverwinter Nights). This would explain how this game differs from its predecessors, and how close it is to the actual "paper" version of the game. I'm not part of the beta test, and I have no idea if enough data is available to do this sort of analysis. Canonblack 19:32, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * No, it shouldn't say this. That's the place for the version 3.5 article (or whatever it is), not this article. bob rulz 02:36, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, there might be a place for commonly appearing criticism of DDO, just as there is for City of Heroes in its wikipedia entry. One commonly appearing criticism is that Dungeons and Dragons Online has moved away from many standard and traditional features of D&D, features that have appeared in other computer games based on D&D, but rather emulates those D&D games that also moved away from the normal ruleset to the detriment of the gameplay.  Also, there is criticism that it has little to do with Eberron's unique flavor and theme.

 * Of course, a place for praise would also be good. (Anonymous)

 * Already exists: http://en.ddowiki.ws/w/PnP_differences - add it as a external link if you like. 66.58.239.135 06:00, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

 * The link you suggest is on another website, and is not a Wikipedia site as far as I can tell. There is room within this article for a succinct list of apparent flaws (such as mentioning that many players who are dissatisfied with DDO express that it differs too strongly from PnP rules for their taste, others expressing that it also differs noticably from the Eberron Campaign World setting that DDO derives from).

 * ... 'A Wikipedia'? What the heck is 'A Wikipedia'? It's running on MediaWiki software if that's what you mean. And it sure is a wiki, working on the same basic principles that founded wikipedia.

Name change
Shouldn't this be Dugeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach? bob rulz 02:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Ah... hemmm... hahh... I'm not sure. My guess is that Stormreach is only the name of the initial release (like Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided) and that D&D Online will be the overreaching name.  But that's my opinion. Donovan Ravenhull 03:08, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * could be indeed, perhaps make a reveral from the complete name to here, but changing doesn't seem needed. Boneyard 09:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh, I just made a redirect from Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach since I thought it was odd that it was a red link in the upcoming video game releases list. Didn't even know there was already a discussion about the naming in the first place.  :p  --TheKoG 15:29, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

If the official title is Dungeons and Dragons: Stormreach the ":" means it's a subtitle, doesn't it? Either way that's a lot of freaking syllables. TotalTommyTerror 09:39, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
Need to adda few pictures.
 * that would indeed be nice yes. Boneyard 08:12, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * What Other pictures would be good? I added 2, but I can get more. Watersoftheoasis 21:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.145.202.137 (talk)

Solo content and PvP section is wrong
The section on solo content and PvP gives the wrong impression. Turbine announced they would add more solo content... not that you would be able to solo the entire game. Also, PvP was never said that it would not ever be implemented... only that it wouldn't be in the game at release.

http://www.ddo-europe.com/faq.php?type=About%20Game&page=15

Finally... co-operative gameplay is very possible in PvP... when you play Team vs Team.

--J-Star 10:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

While you are correct to a certain extent, the URL (and answer in it) is a bit misleading. It was made very clear during the alpha/beta periods of DDO's development that so-called "heavy PvP" would never be a part of the game. While "light PvP" was considered (and "not to be included at launch"), several times during the beta period it was made extremely clear that the community shouldn't hold their breath for even that much. The widely suggested position of the Turbine staff was that PvP of any sort had no real place in D&D or DDO and they had no plans at all on the table for its inclusion in the game -- at best it was a very distant possibility.

The following letter to the community gives an idea of the general tone that they introduced the notion of no-PvP with:

http://www.mmhell.com/news/101404/920_cp2.html

(Note that the URL to the original board post pointed to the Beta version of the forums, which no longer exists, so you can't see the original anymore as per the deletion of those forums in entirety).

Furthermore, despite a "team vs. team" situation calling for co-operation between members of the same team, that by no means fits the commonly understood definition of co-operative game play; rather, co-operative game play is defined by all human players sharing a co-operative and non-hostile game experience with one another. Team vs. Team PvP is PvP, plain and simple.

--D

Beta information in the introduction
The details on Beta testing should not be in the opening paragraph. The beta is over and done with, and while its a notable part of the game's history, it's not so important that it should be in the introduction. See WP:LEAD for the manual of style on the lead paragraph. If there's disagreement on this issue, let's discuss here and try and come to a concensus. -- MisterHand 14:00, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok, but move it higher in the article. That kind of information should either be before or after discussion of gameplay mechanics. Not right in the middle of them.

Actually, I'll move it.

TotalTommyTerror 08:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Criticism section needs ref.
The criticism section is full of POV opinions. That section needs references to show such criticism or it has to go. --J-Star 08:43, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting that the references that were there have been removed by subsequent editors
 * So put them back... or take out the section.--J-Star 08:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well you could write pages on how the game breaks with D&D rules and through that often spoil the interest of pen and paper players, you dont need many references, player's handbook, monster manual etc etc take a look at the core books, and you'll see that D&D Online is only D&D in the name.
 * This has been nagged to death on the forums... don't bring such unencyclopedic nonsense to Wikipedia. And let me just point out that you do not decide what is D&D or not. WotC owns the brand and they have given Turbine the go-ahead. Hence, DDO is D&D, whether you like it or not. --J-Star 12:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The criticism section currently consists of a header and a box indicating issues with the now non-existant text. Time to erase it?  Or does someone have relevant non-PoV criticism to post?  --Junior612 22:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Nuked. - UtherSRG (talk) 22:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

CORPG
This game seems to fall into the heading of CORPG, would it be correct to move it into this genre? The typical amount of players in a combat instance in D&D Online is 6 players, with 12 players being maximum for special instances. --Wormywyrm 22:09, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. - UtherSRG (talk) 00:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems to meet the definition in CORPG, but note that the CORPG article appears to be an unreferenced stub. There is no verfication within the article that the term has any sort of widely accepted use within the industry.  In fact, as it stands, the article admits that only two games, Fury and Guild Wars, officially use the term to describe themselves.  Therefore, with the lack of references, it's quite possible the article could fail to meet WP:V policy and might end up being deleted. Dugwiki 22:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It doesn't really seem to fit CORPG. CORPG concentrates on competition, but DDO concentrates on cooperation. If you try to compete for things such as the most kills, you usually won't make it through the dungeon, unless of course you're a few levels higher than the dungeon level. Watersoftheoasis (talk) 17:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

do you have to have a subscrition?
I was wondering whether this game needs monthly fee to play like Wow. Could you say if it does need a monthly fee or not?

 * A monthly fee is required. I don't know if that's worth mentioning in the article, however, given that a monthly fee for a game of this type is generally considered to be the norm. --Junior612 21:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I think it is worth mentioning. It's one of the first things I generally look for when I see a Wiki on yet another MMORPG. Sometimes the information can be relatively obscure on the official game sites, buried under manuals and whatnot. 202.61.229.2 15:02, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Now that Eberron Unlimited is released,Dungeons & Dragons online is now free to play. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.103.0.1 (talk) 23:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The current situation now is that in the US it is "free to play" and players have the option to subscribe to a VIP status. In Europe it still remains subscription based. One reason for this is that the game is run by Turbine in the US and Codemasters in Europe. (26, September 2009)

 * S'cos Europe's used to having their money taken from them. --86.29.123.222 (talk) 10:24, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Expanded Future updates
To include the most recent events Martinj63 21:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Characters per account?
Shouldn't there be information on how many characters a single account can have? And also more information on player accounts in general, when looking for info on an mmo, that's generally one of the first things i look for. I'd add it myself, but I don't have the game.

The max characters a single account can have is 40 per server. I am maxed out. Davidchance2000 (talk) 21:57, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Removed from article
The following content was removed from the article for a good reason, but I believe that a fair bit of it can be merged in with the other content on the page if someone has the time to do so, so I'm putting it here for now.

If you think this info needs a separate page then fine. But it needs to be easily accessible. I came here looking for this specifically and had to dig through history to find it. Bad form and laziness to just remove it and store on the talk page.

Updates and modules
Turbine releases major content updates to the game as "modules", named after the module concept in the pen-and-paper version of D&D. Additional content is release between modules as "updates"

Module 1: Dragon's Vault
On April 5 2006 Turbine released its first module, "Dragon's Vault," which included a new dungeon; this new area included additional content and quests as well as the chance for players to battle a red dragon. Also included were a number of fixes to the combat system and minor tweaks to the user interface.

Update 1.1: The Harbor
This first update include changes to the low level Harbor quests.

Update 1.2: Solo Enhancements
More changes to the Harbor area, including the addition of several solo-only quests there.

Module 2: Twilight Forge
The "Twilight Forge" module, released July 12 2006, added a new player race: the Drow (playable only if certain requirements have been met), as well as new enhancements, spells, a patron system, in-game mail, and adventures set in the Restless Isles, a new outdoor area.

Update 2.1: Litany of the Dead Part 1: The Necropolis
In August 2006, an update called "Litany of the Dead Part 1: The Necropolis" was released. This update is the first part of the Litany of the Dead series that carried into next year. The update has five full quests as part of the first part of Litany, and culminates in an encounter with a powerful vampire.

Update 2.2: Stormreach Under Siege!
This update for September 2006 introduced the first quests above level 10, other than the Twilight Forge raid, including a level 12 quest in the previously low-level only Harbor area.

Module 3: Demon Sands
This module, the largest one at the time, was released on October 25, 2006. With this update, Turbine attempted to alleviate many of the player base's most acute concerns. Primarily, it introduced some more meaningfully explorable areas to the game in order to give the world a feeling of greater breadth. It also introduced some consensual PvP (Player vs. Player) elements to the game (in the form of "Tavern Brawl" arenas and objective-based quests; Capture the Flag, Indoor and Outdoor Deathmatch), as well as an auction house, and the first level-cap raise from ten to twelve.

Update 3.1: Evil Resurgent
This December 2006 update included a rework of the social panel, many bug fixes, and six high level quests. Most of these new quests, all of which are rated at level 11, are sequels to previous quests, extending the storylines of the characters involved.

Update 3.2: Litany of the Dead Part 2
Five new monsters (phase spiders, shadows, umbral worgs, umbral gargoyles, and invisible stalkers) were released in this update, along with five quests for party level 8-9. These quests continue the storyline of The Necropolis from Litany of the Dead Part 1.

Update 3.3: Academy Training
This update completely revamped the Action Point enhancement system. Also, in celebration of DDO's one-year anniversary, all chests were at +1 level from February 28 to March 4, and all XP awarded from March 2 to March 4 was +50%.

Module 4: Reaver's Bane
Introduced in April 2007, Reaver's Bane brought the level cap up to 14 from 12 and introduced a new terrain mechanic along with many new spells and abilities for characters of all levels. Two new areas (the Cerulean Hills and Gianthold Ruins) use the new mechanic that includes entrances to traditional quests plus three new types of quests : slayer quests (where you get experience for how many monsters you or your party have killed), explorer quests (where you get experience just for visiting a new part of the area for the first time), and rare encounter quests (where you get experience for killing infrequently spawned named monsters).

Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon
The May 2007 update included, among other things, the implementation of Dragonmarks and the addition of a new encounter area: Ataraxia's Haven.

Update 4.2: Searing Heights
This July 2007 update revamped the Menechtarun desert landscape and the Waterworks adventure area. There is an added landscape for level 4 characters to battle the Sulatar firebinders, new spells, abilities, and enhancements including Holy Sword and Warchanter. Players get three more weapon set configuration slots for a total of seven. Also fixed were several bugs. Many new spells were added for all spellcasting classes. Extra enhancements were also added. One additional level 4 dungeon was added.

Module 5: The Accursed Ascension
Released in September 2007, this module includes parts 3 and 4 of the Litany of the Dead; by doing so, it doubled the amount of quests in the Necropolis area. It ends with a new high level raid. Apart from the addition of new enhancements and some minor corrections, the metamagic system went through a major revision and the item tooltips were vastly improved. Some new additions are collectable and gem bags, made to reduce the cluttering of inventory space.

Starting with this module, the development team made the decision to stop releasing interim updates. Responding to the players' feedback that the interim updates do not provide enough new content, the developers will instead focus on creating significantly larger modules.

Module 6: The Thirteenth Eclipse
The January 2008 update, the Thirteenth Eclipse, raised the level cap from 14 to 16, and opened a previously locked area that was partially accessible by players, The Twelve. Also with this area is a new set of quests and a new raid located in an area connected to The Twelve, called the Vale of Twilight. Included as well with this update is allowance for subscribers to customize the player interface as is available in Turbine's other MMO "Lord of the Rings Online".

Update 6.1 (released on 27 February 2008) introduced a new, ongoing live event, as well as a slice of anniversary cake. The anniversary cake summons a Djinni that will grant a wish (as the Wish spell)

Module 7: Way of the Monk
This update, released on 3 June 2008, introduced the Monk class to all servers. It had previously been in testing for a time on the Risia preview server. Included were various city upgrades, bounty subquests that involve collecting remains of monsters, and UI interface tweaks. The Monk class is planned to be updated in the near future.

Module 8: Prisoners Of Prophecy
This update, released 6 November 2008, introduced a new low level area called Korthos Island. It currently has replaced the starter area in the Harbor, as well as most of the low (level 1, 2, 3) quests and four new high adventure areas. They have also integrated DirectX 10 into their graphics with this update.

NPCs known as hirelings have been tested on the Risia server, and also had a preview to get more feedback on the main servers. They have been integrated into Stormreach.

–Drilnoth (T • C) 13:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

WP is not a game guide. Cover the major features of each release; the details and the minor revisions aren't notable to me. If you can't decide easily, stick to the rule of three's: pick three features to describe in detail and just name off the rest. Release dates on updates aren't notable unless it's a controversial release that the playerbase/media individually call out for attention (e.g.: Star Wars Online's "NGE" is a notable release, since mention of it elicits a broad reaction to both players and media. The other updates simply aren't.)

I'd keep it more of a primer and less of a manual. 209.180.155.12 (talk) 06:50, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

New Changes
With the game now 3 years old, I think it's time to update this article to reflect the game as it is today. I have taken the liberty to expand a paragraph on the introduction. I also want to give it a better format, so that it will be more pleasant to read. Some of the information is clumped together. I hope to give this article a breath of fresh air. Although I do not want to destroy anyone else's work.Vernash (talk) 19:08, 29 March 2009 (UTC) I added a second paragraph to the introduction detailing somewhat of an overview of the article to help with the Ambox at the top. I would like to get a approximate total subscriber number and relationship of the game in regards to the marketshare of DDO with a third paragraph.Added a table to the character class section. I feel it corresponds better to the D&D article than bulletpoint style, and reflects how the game has special paths you can follow. I do not see the reason to add every path to each class, as their names have changed more than once. Also added another paragraph there and added to the Alignments section paragraph. More to come.Vernash (talk) 19:51, 1 April 2009 (UTC)Condensed the information in Section 8 into a more readable format. It does not make sense to have subsections within subsections when they are only a couple sentences long. An update to a module does not require its own section. Deleted a couple screenshots that did not work in that section as well.Vernash (talk) 20:34, 29 May 2009 (UTC)Also added in the Feat, Skill and Enhancement section. It was much needed to inform about how characters' can be diversified. However, I do not have any references at this time. Feel free to add in any info you see fit.Vernash (talk) 22:46, 29 May 2009 (UTC) Combined Mechanic, Quests and Difficulty into 1 Gameplay section. It is much more readable.Vernash (talk) 22:08, 4 June 2009 (UTC)I will not update anything else until at least 2010, when hopefully the company that owns this property will fix the problems with the IP.Vernash (talk) 02:09, 2 August 2009 (UTC) April-August 2009: Added in Alignments, condensed the Module section, deleted a couple screenshots, added Feat, Skill and Enhancements system, combined Mechanic, Quests & Diffuculty into 1 Gameplay section. Reformatted, but still need references and I want to get an approximate total subscriber number and relationship of the game in regards to the MMO marketshare.Vernash (talk) 06:17, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Screenshots
I would like to get some screenshots in here, specifically of the different additions in each mod. I'll work on getting some, but if anyone else could help, I'd appreciate it. Watersoftheoasis (talk) 17:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC) I believe that eight pictures would be a bit much just for one article. A limit of four or less would be more appropriate.Vernash (talk) 18:49, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Crafting
Now that crafting has been added into the game, I think it would be a good idea to add a separate section in the article discussing a brief overview of crafting, or forming an entirely new article with detailed information. Watersoftheoasis (talk) 17:31, 3 April 2009 (UTC) Good idea. Still working on condensing all the information into a Gameplay section. I will add a subsection for Crafting so anyone can pick that up.Vernash (talk) 18:49, 3 April 2009 (UTC)If anyone writes a crafting overview, please put it under Gameplay section.Vernash (talk) 02:12, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

reception/success
This article lacks both a reception section (what grades did it get at release) as well as notes on its current success (or lack thereof) 78.82.29.77 (talk) 22:51, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Free 2 Play
Someone should add a section concerning the game's switch to F2P. http://content.turbine.com/pages/www.ddo.com/beta_signup/index.php —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.241.0.6 (talk) 18:26, 9 June 2009 (UTC) I'm on top of it. Most of the info will be put in the Future Updates section after I am done reviewing the press releases and forum articles within the next couple days.Vernash (talk) 23:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

- I added the relevant information, giving the difference in content between free players and subscribers as well as actually putting in the reference. --Paperbard (talk) 17:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

 * The current situation is that only in the US the game has switched to "free to play". In Europe it still remains subscription based. There is not much official information from Turbine or Codemasters concerning the future of the billing/subscription system for Europe though. (14:00, 25 September 2009)

Orc class delayed indefinitely
According to the developers on the recent DDO Cast.

http://hostedwith.cyberears.com/7404.mp3

--VertigoOne (talk) 04:39, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Limited how?
I notice that in the comparison chart it states that Chat, Auctions, Mail and Gold Storage are "limited" but doesn't expand on exactly what that means. Can someone elaborate on exactly how they are limited? 203.211.121.53 (talk) 13:30, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

System requirements
The game lists no plans for a Linux client, but many Linux players do play DDO and LotRO through a custom launcher and Wine. The official site used to have the links, which is why I mention it, but I can't access them as I am behind a firewall right now. Prince of Cats (talk) 16:49, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Reversions of removal of game guide information
Wikipedia is not a game guide, so I removed the information in this article that is not encyclopedic, but rather only suited for a game guide. In reverting that removal (of data which does not need to be revised, but should be deleted), the reverters have also lost other copy edits and clean up information, and restored external links that are not encyclopedic (WP:EL). -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:31, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

"Future updates" senseless
The paragraph named "future updates" was about vapourware from 2007. Now it's 12/2009 and either those things didn't happen or already happened, so the paragraph itself was senseless anyway. I've completely removed it, I don't think there was anything worth saving.

If you DO think there was something worth saving, then re-write it in a proper manner, because restoring it as it was would be just restoring something wrong and obsolete.

I have spoken.

--Lo'oris (talk) 01:01, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Who's the publisher? (Turbine v. Atari lawsuit)
Turbine alleged in its August 2009 lawsuit against Atari that Atari failed to hold up its side of the publishing agreement, so Turbine assumed the publishing, marketing, and distribution duties itself. See complaint pages 8 through 10. Whether Atari is the publisher appears now to be in dispute, so may be due for a fact check... I'll see if I can locate Atari's response to the allegations... Matt Fitzpatrick (talk) 01:24, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Great - let us know! 24.148.0.83 (talk) 03:45, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

"Reception" section
I must echo the person earlier who got no reply. This needs a section on its reviews and critical reception. 88.105.53.90 (talk) 18:43, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Rewrite, not copy edit
Wikipedia articles need to be comprehensible to general readers, and when that isn't possible provide helpful information to people who are experts. The article in its current form doesn't do either well. It's incomprehensible to anyone who doesn't know what D&D is, and is a collection of partly trivial, obvious and uninteresting factoids for those who are experienced players.

Also, there's a problem that editors are talking off the top of their head, without references, sometimes about things that are no longer true, or that (to my knowledge) were never true. This example sentence is among the many that are a combination of ill-defined, informal language, and misleading information: "Hard and Elite increase the XP bonus the first time the quest is run at the given level, and generally provide a much more challenging experience to the players." (E.g., higher difficulties don't "generally" provide a bigger challenge, they always do.)

Probably there needs to be two kinds of sections and paragraphs, one for people with no knowledge of D&D, and the other for people who know a great deal about DDO, and are interested in little-known information that wouldn't come to them in the course of months of game play.

Overall, the material in the DDO Wiki is better written, more focussed. The material here that's borrowed from Turbine's commercial site doesn't meet Wikipedia needs, and for that information, such as section "Eberron Unlimited" I would encourage Turbine itself to rewrite it with complete infomation, since the Wiki page gets 11,000 hits in a month. (The editors who do this should identify their contributions as being from Turbine employees here, as a courtesy.) 67.188.213.223 (talk) 15:58, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think there would be a COI problem to have employees come here and rewrite the article. Although, you are probably right in that it does need a rewrite from someone. The story/plot section was removed, so we could use a new one. 129.33.19.254 (talk) 16:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

 * The article is in pretty bad shape. I reorganized some sections and trimmed a little here and there, but it still needs a major overhaul in the gameplay and characters sections.  There is far too much detail in those sections, and it's unbalanced in terms of covering all aspects of the article evenly. —Torchiest talkedits 15:24, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

mmorpg.com quarterfinals
I'm busy with finals at school right now, but I came across  where DDO is in the quarterfinals of the competition for their best MMORPG of 2014 if someone is interested an willing to make a note on the article and watch the progress to see if they make the semi-finals and/or win. Thanks. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 18:00, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Dungeons & Dragons Online


text:
Li Yi (footballer)

Li Yi (born June 20, 1979), is a Chinese football coach and former player who is currently the head coach of China League One club Sichuan Jiuniu. He is also an Internet meme in China with a nickname Imperator Li Yi the Great. A Baidu Tieba named after him is famous for its large number of followers, who often participate in coordinated flooding of other Internet forums.

As a player, he was a striker who represented Tianjin Locomotive, Beijing Guoan, Shaanxi Chanba and Shenzhen Kingway whom he won the 2004 Chinese Super League with. He would also represent the Chinese national team in the 2003 East Asian Football Championship and 2004 AFC Asian Cup. Since retiring he moved into football coaching and was assigned his first head coaching position with Shenzhen Ruby before leaving the club on 12 April 2015.

Club career
Li Yi started his football career playing for the Tianjin Locomotive youth before he was promoted to their senior team in the 1997 league season. His performances for his club would see him attract the attentions of the Chinese U20 and Chinese U23 teams. This led to top tier club Beijing Guoan interested in his services, however they quickly found that Li Yi had already signed a pre-contract with fellow top tier side Shenzhen Pingan. Shenzhen would eventually allow a loan move to happen and Li Yi would move to Beijing throughout the 1999 league season.

At Shenzhen Pingan Li Yi would quickly establish himself with the team and at the end of the 2000 football league season he would score 9 goals from 21 appearances. During his time at Shenzhen he experienced significant success winning the Chinese Super League in 2004 as well as playing a significant role in the Shenzhen team that reached the semi-finals of the 2005 AFC Champions League by scoring two critical goals in-game and the third goal in over time, for a 3–1 win against Al-Ahli (Jeddah) of Saudi Arabia and being their top goalscorer with 5 goals. Within the tournament unconfirmed comments on the internet about Li claiming his ball shielding is similar and comparable to FIFA World Cup winner Thierry Henry, made him a target for much criticism from home fans. Viewing his off-field comments as pretentious he earned a nickname Imperator Li Yi the Great, and eventually became an Internet meme among Chinese netizens. In fact, Li never said such words. He did mention Thierry Henry after a 2005 AFC Champions League group stage match which Shenzhen beat Suwon Samsung Bluewings 1–0 at home. He said that he shielded the ball in the corner flag area in the injury time to ensure the victory, just like Thierry Henry did. The medium misrepresented his comments because they believed that saying Li's ball shielding was comparable to Thierry Henry can be more attracting.

The 2005 season would be a turbulent time for Shenzhen as their influential manager Zhu Guanghu was appointed the new manager of the China national football team and left Shenzhen. His successor Chi Shangbin would not wield the same respect and significant infighting occurred from senior influential players which included Li Weifeng, Yang Chen and Li Leilei, which coupled with the club's financial difficulties saw a mass exit. Li Yi would eventually follow these players by transferring to fellow top tier club Shaanxi Chanba at the beginning of the 2007 season. He would remain there until the 2010 league season before he decided to retire at the end of the season.

International debut
Li Yi received his first senior international call-up in 1999 by Chinese manager Bob Houghton while playing for Beijing Guoan, however he did not make his debut under him. Li did not make his debut until after his impressive displays for Shenzhen in 2001 and the new Chinese manager Bora Milutinović called him up for a 2002 FIFA World Cup qualification – AFC first round game against Cambodia on 6 May 2001, where he came on as a substitute for Li Jinyu in a 4–0 victory. After the game Li was tried out in several further games, however he could not gain a permanent place within the squad as Milutinović stuck with established players such as Hao Haidong as China went to the 2002 FIFA World Cup. When the World Cup ended Milutinović left and Arie Haan came in as the Chinese manager, which saw Li go on to establish himself as a regular under his reign.

2003 East Asian Cup
The 2003 East Asian Football Championship game against China and Korea Republic football team opened in the face of heated political bitterness on both sides as Korea and China were bitterly embroiled over geographical claims over Goguryeo. With China having participated in the 2002 FIFA World Cup for the first time expectations for China had risen that they could end their losing streak against Korea Republic, a phenomenon termed "Koreaphobia" in China. Meanwhile, the Korean team was embittered over a previous meeting in 1998, which saw Hwang Sun-Hong severely injured, preventing him from playing in the 1998 World Cup in France.

2004 AFC Asian Cup
Li Yi was called into the national team that played in 2004 AFC Asian Cup which China were hosting and eventually finished runners-up in. During this tournament Li Yi scored his second goal against Indonesia in a 5–0 win in the group stages. He played in the final as a substitute for Hao Haidong, however, China still lost the game 3–1 to Japan. After the 2004 AFC Asian Cup Li Yi found it increasingly more difficult to be named within the national team. Despite being named for several other friendlies Li Yi could not score within any games. Li Yi was completely dropped from the squad for the 2007 AFC Asian Cup and has since not played for the national team.

Managerial career
On 22 July 2020, Li was appointed as head coach of China League One club Sichuan Jiuniu.

Honours
Shenzhen Pingan
 * Chinese Super League: 2004

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Li Yi (footballer)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Time Bomb (Angel episode)

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep both. - Mailer Diablo 17:27, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Time Bomb (Angel episode) and Five by Five (Angel episode)
These articles are essentially just a description of what happens in the show, written like someone recalling what they watched on TV last night. Such articles do not exist for all other Angel episodes, and aren't needed. Harro5 09:19, August 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment Unfortunately, we have a precedent in countless things like The Initiative (Buffy episode). Maybe we need a policy here on individual TV episodes (like 'delete' the lot), or can I start on 3,000 episodes of Coronation Street --Doc (?) 09:37, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per Wikipedia is not paper. Please begin the Coronation Street episodes, they have a very large audience. Kappa 10:13, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * There's already websites out there for this kind of fanboyism, but merging details of every episode would be unreasonable. Weak keep. Kappa, as you made the request, I think working on an article for every one of the Coronation Street episodes would be an excellent project that could really use your unique skills. I'm sure Doc would be more than happy to assist you.  You could also create a series of articles on each incarnation of that ginger cat that appears on the credits - after all, a ginger cat seen by 13 million people a week is verifiable. Perhaps you could start a Coronation Street Wikiproject.  Proto t c 10:53, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I have no interest in Coronation Street myself and very little knowledge of it, so I will employ my "unique skills" elsewhere. Kappa 14:44, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Wikipedia is not paper, TV episodes are like miniature movies. CanadianCaesar 12:38, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment As wikipedia ages and matures, this stuff will probably be pushed out into a Wikimedia project (with of course a separate Wikitrek project). For now, though, there is no basis not to include individual tv episodes since the precedent has long been established that pretty much any crap, if it was televised, meets the standard for inclusion. Dottore So 14:37, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, as above. However, I'm a little worried that the discussion seems to focus on what we like as the criteria for what should be included in terms of pop culture. Trollderella 15:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep no good reason to delete.Gateman1997 18:07, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. I don't think every single television series in the history of television deserves an entry for every single episode, but Angel is a notable series and has received a lot of academic attention (I say this as an editor of some Buffy criticism related articles.) Sdedeo 19:13, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge. An article featuring synopses of the episodes of a series of Angel might be a very worthwhile article. But I doubt the need for individual articles on every episode. Grutness...  wha?  01:30, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, and why don't we have synopses for all the other Angel episodes? --Tony Sidaway Talk 01:59, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Why not start them, Tony? Proto t c 15:14, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. There is plenty of precedent for articles based upon individual episodes of series. 23skidoo 05:18, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep plenty of precedent for TV episodes; that this is the first is no argument. Xoloz 17:57, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User:Sotomura

Hey all, and welcome to this Wikipedia user page that I haven’t touched for almost 15 years.

I mostly contribute to parts of my interests, including Pokémon and Fire Emblem. Personally, there's nothing I can enjoy more. But I'll be honest - while I'm trying to expand my interests around Wikipedia, I'm mostly stuck with the topics I like.

I'm watching more articles now to make sure I catch the new information.

Wikiwork
And with that over, here's some of my somewhat major/minor, if somewhat dated, contributions to Wikipedia.

WikiProject Pokémon
Most of my works are covered by the project itself, to cover the encyclopedic aspects of Pokémon (mostly the Pokémon (anime)-covered topics).
 * Pokémon Diamond and Pearl - It's where most of my edits literally pour into.
 * Template:Pokémon anime characters - It’s defunct now!
 * Ash Ketchum - I mostly correct some work in such an article.
 * New Pokémon articles - definitely not so much now.

Miscellany

 * Siemens Nexas. I’d taken a previous picture (gone now) and did other small contributions.
 * Comeng (train) - Having created this article with as much knowledge as I knew about the train, I've been watching it. It had to be done anyway (and it wasn't one of the deleted edits).

There’s probably more to this list worth noting, but I’m limited by my short-term memory.

title: User:Sotomura


text:
User talk:Mejin

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style
 * If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Topical index.

Boneyard 09:22, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

DDO Monster Compendium
i also posted on the talk page of the DDO article about this, it's nice you are trying to work on wiki but mainly just copy pasting information from the official forum and there by making the DDO article rather huge and not really on topic doesn't seem the way to go in my opinion. please consider creating a seperate article, monsters in DDO for example. Also keep in mind the links you provide to the forum require people to create a login. Boneyard 09:22, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

 * you just keep going on it seems, as far as i know you are breaking the copyright rules by just copy pasting information from the official forum. just notice the remarks below the edit box, specially this one "By submitting your work you promise you wrote it yourself, or copied it from public domain resources—this does not include most web pages.". and i still feel the mmo article isn't the place to just put all monster information on. Boneyard 08:21, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mejin


text:
Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Korean)/Contexts

This page is now redundant. It could either be deleted or merged with Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Korean)/Disputed names. Any thoughts? Masterhatch 19 August 2005


text:
Talk:Western Massachusetts

Steve Herrell, ice cream, and western Mass
"The concept of mixing candy, nuts, and crushed cookies, and other stuff into ice cream was invented by Steve Herrell, whose current ice cream shop, Herrell's, is in Northampton"

Seeing as how there are Herrell's ice cream stores in Cambridge and Boston as well as Northampton, what makes this a fact about Western Mass? AJD 09:25, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The statement, as written, is blattantly bogus anyway. Much as I liked Steve's Ice Cream at Porter Square, I'm pretty sure that Maple Walnut and Butter Pecan ice crema existed long before Steve invented "the concept of mixing ... nuts" into ice cream.
 * I'll take the heat for removing the statament. Atlant 12:17, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually the whole story is that Steve Herrell's first ice cream shop was Steve's Ice Cream in Boston in 1973. He sold this shop in 1977.  In 1980 he founded Herrell's Ice Cream in Northampton, which now has opened shops near Boston.  Steve Herrell was the first person to mix Heath Bars into Ice Cream and this idea spread across the Country.  It isn't clear from what is written if they started at Steve's or Herrell's.  The point being is the inventor of this idea is a Western Mass figure, as that is where his home store and office is located, in Northampton MA. Noldrin 9:25, 06 September 2005

 * Mixins started at the original Steve's Ice Cream in Somerville, if the location he started it was in question. Like with the trademark issues that forced Herrell to change the name of the Northampton shop from "Steve Herrell's" to "Herrell's", he had to change the name of the technique.  Ravenswing 03:13, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

 * Perhaps a statement such as "Steve Herrell, The Inventor of Mixins, second ice cream chain was started in and is based out of Northampton" would be appropiate. Noldrin 9:53, 07 September 2005

Secession?
I think the part about Western Massachusetts residents being cynical about Boston and periodically calling for secession needs a reference. 24.60.184.196 20:24, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I reversed the removal of the Personality section. It's traditionally polite to wait a week before deleting a whole section like that.  Also, it would be good to provide contrary evidence that shows that the section is invalid, especially because the Talk discussion only referenced the first sentence, not the whole section.  Please feel free to get a no-cost membership at Wikipedia, it makes it easier for editors to communicate. :)
 * Citations:
 * Secession group in Chicopee.
 * Column in an MIT paper ([http://www-tech.mit.edu/ The Tech) talking about differences between eastern and western Massachusetts.
 * Transcript of a meeting from MassINC regarding the east/west divide in Massachusetts.
 * The "Berkshire Freedom Coalition" is referenced in many web directories as a Western Mass. secession group. Their website  appears to be defunct, though.
 * Mass Pike article from South Coast Today mentions a revolt by drivers from western Massachusetts against turnpike policies.\
 * Article in the Boston Globe talking about Alabama road signs installed in the western town of Easthampton.
 * The distrust we're talking about goes back over 300 years. In 1787, this divide led to open rebellion and bloodshed.  It's very real and flares up any time there's an economic downturn or some major project that is perceived as stealing funds from the western part of the state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dunkelza (talk • contribs) 02:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I apologize for not waiting a week. However, your assertion that MANY people take a cynical attitude toward Boston is blatantly taking a point of view.  The citations you give are from opinion pieces, not objective news pieces.  And the statement that people oppose Wal-Mart hardly seems borne out by the proliferation of both Wal-Mart and Target in places like, say, the Route 9 corridor in Hadley, Mass.  The Alabama road sign incident was a simple mistake not a statement about secession or a statement against Boston.  And, as you yourself point out the Berkshire Freedom coalition is now defunction. I have lived in Western Mass. for many years and have never heard any mention of sececssion.  There is no "revolt" by Turnpike drivers. Your reference number #5 doesn't mention this at all.  What "revolt" are you talking about?  #5 seems to imply a positive thing for Westgern Mass.  Also your reference # 1 goes nowhere.    Your characterization of the "Personality of Western Mass." is way off and not representative of a neutral point of view.  A vast region like Western Massachusetts does not have a "Personality." I believe you are expanding on stereotypes, not presenting fact.
 * I've also tagged this article for POV with the aim of getting some more people involved in the discussion. 24.60.184.196 11:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

 * No big deal. I would encourage you to get a login, it's free.
 * Considering that we are discussing the opinions of the locals, opinion pieces are a valid indicator that such an opinion exists. The opinion clearly exists so the question becomes, 'is the sentence FACTUALLY accurate'?:
 * "Many residents of Western Massachusetts take a cynical attitude towards Boston -- the state's capital and largest city -- and talk of secession appears periodically."
 * The word "many" means "a large, indefinite number" according to the American Heritage Dictionary . While the word can sometimes be interpreted as meaning a majority, that is not implied by the text of the sentence.  Clearly, an anti-Boston sentiment exists in some "large, indefinite" portion of the populace:
 * Reference #3 above involves discussions amongst academics and political leaders talking about said divide.
 * Bay State's east, west look for ways to repair the divide - AP article in South Coast Today talking about the east/west divide in Massachusetts and hopes to repair the split.
 * Reference #5 above states: "'Massachusetts' Fast Lane system, which has become a target for Turnpike critics, got off to a slow start with massive traffic jams, hefty losses in toll revenues and police overtime, and a revolt by western Massachusetts drivers that forced the Pike to provide them with more than $517,000 in free transponders.'" (Emphasis mine) Clearly, they're talking about a political backlash, not an armed uprising.
 * Berkshire Town Sends Giant Ball of Cheese to Washington A historical article reinforcing the historical origins of the divide.
 * shaysridesagain.org An anti-corporate, pro-local governance group in Western Massachusetts harkening back to the Shays Rebellion.
 * Local Reps Distrust UMass Trustees Article in the Valley Advocate talking about disempowerment on the UMass board: "What's eating at legislators like Kulik and Story is the fact that right now, there are no residents of western Massachusetts on the board..."
 * The mere existence of pro-secession websites indicates that some "talk of secession" exists, and the disappearance of one of those sites reinforces the "periodic" nature of the discussion.
 * The anti-WalMart sentiment point is neither supported nor refuted by the existence of WalMarts in the region. WalMart is infamous for moving into areas over the objection of the local residents.  This is how they got into Vermont as well.  Again, I'm not saying that EVERYONE hates WalMart... heck, I used to work at the one in Hadley, but I have been aware of the controversy.  The debate's STILL going on in Greenfield, more than a decade later, if you can believe it.
 * Anyway, my supper is ready, so I'm going to wrap up. The point is that the sentence is FACTUALLY correct.  Can it be improved and made less ambiguous?  Of course, but I don't believe that any of the facts in that section are wrong.  I agree that "personality" isn't the best title for the topics covered, maybe "political climate" would serve better?
 * Oh, just to be clear, I didn't write the article, nor even the whole section. I simply tweak it and clarify, like most editors.
 * BTW, I have also lived in the area for years. I'd really like to avoid trying to figure out whose blood is bluer.  That said, I'm not entirely sure how you could have missed all the anti-Boston sentiment. :) - Dunkelza 19:46 September 6, 2005 (EDT)

 * I remember several years ago that one of the morning DJ's on 99.3 would mention that Western Mass should split off from rest of the State on air back and at one point in 2002 asked on air Gubernatorial Candidate Shannon O'Brien what she thought of the idea. She's said something to the effect that while the idea tends gets mentioned over the years and can sound tempting, that the best realistic solution is push for a government the works for all the people, rather than going it alone.   - Noldrin 21:06 September 7, 2005 (EDT)

I also have lived in Western Mass for years, and while many people (disclaimer: including myself) DO have a distrust of Boston politics, any talk I've heard of secession (which hasn't been much) has always been clearly tongue-in-cheek ("And we can have our own currency!"). I would just word it "Many residents of Western Massachusetts take a cynical attitude towards Boston -- the state's capital and largest city." and keep it at that. Stev0 05:34, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree with Stev0; being a Boston native who lived in the Valley for 12 years, it's true that 'secession' is airy nonsense that's either tongue-in-cheek or spoken by the occasional nutcase, and not worth mentioning. It's also true that there is profound and widespread anti-Boston sentiment, possibly having something to do with the sheer indifference towards western MA in this neck of the woods, and I seriously wonder as to the bonafides of anyone claiming to be a Valley native and unaware of it.  Ravenswing 12:08, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Would anyone object if I edited the sentence in question to what I wrote above? Stev0 20:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

 * While part of me wants to mention Piss in the Quabbin Day, I agree that your sentence is probably best. Rhobite 21:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

 * It's accurate and reasonably neutral, Stev0, go for it. Ravenswing 21:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

 * OK, I took out the controversial phrase. I'd keep the Wal-Mart one in there because while there are Wal-Marts in Northampton and Hadley (and they both do good business), there are also a number of "Mall Wart" and "Wal-Mart: Your low wage leader.  Every day." bumper stickers seen locally.  Can we take out the Controversy tag now? Stev0 22:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm all for leaving in the Wal-Mart mention and removing the POV tag. Rhobite 00:00, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

 * OK, I took out the POV tag. Actually, in the sentence I'd like to say something of WHY people in Western Mass are cynical about Boston ("Bostonians think the state ends at route 495"), but can't think of a non-POV way to say it. Stev0 16:02, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

 * It's absolutely true, but I agree it's hard. I'd go with something like this:  "The widespread belief amongst Western Massachusetts residents -- fuelled by incidents such as the former state House Speaker use of parliamentary rules to deny Northampton an election to fill a vacant House seat -- is that Bostonians little know nor care about their part of the state."  Heck, I'll put that in myself.  Ravenswing 23:46, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Two points for discussion and editing or edition by someone more knowledgeable than I on this format.
 * 1) As a longtime small business person in the Berkshires I must disagree with Western Mass being "a haven for small business".  I have numerous items that can be cited but it is not universally true and does not meet the standards I have found in the rest of this article or other areas on this website.
 * 2) The difference in dialect, accents, speech between someone from Plymouth (my dad) and someone from North Adams (me)is worth mentioning.  Once one gets past “Woostah”, spelt Worcester but known as Wooster to the rest of the country, there is a difference in many things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomsw (talk • contribs) 03:11, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Twin Cities
I am a native of Westfield, my father's family is from Hartford. In all my life I have never heard of Springfield and Hartford referred to as Twin Cities. Could someone please tell me the root of that concept? Nepal Tree — Preceding undated comment added 03:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Probably that they're the two largest cities in western New England and a half hour apart. That being said, this whole "Twin City" notion's a bit of a crock.  Ravenswing 06:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I never heard of them called Twin Cities either. The closest I've heard is Bradley Airport being called the Hartford/Springfield airport. Stev0 06:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure where that came from either. It might be something about Hartford and Springfield trying to cooperate economically, like that commuter rail thing or something.  We can take it out. --Dunkelza 17:15, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Personality section
As of this version,, on October 5, 2006 it says:

"Many residents of Western Massachusetts take a cynical attitude towards Boston, the state's capital and largest city. The widespread belief -- fueled by incidents such as the former state House Speaker's use of parliamentary rules to deny Northampton an election to fill a vacant House seat -- is that Bostonians little know nor care about their part of the state."

It's worth stating which State House speaker, and what departing representative caused the vacancy, and when this occurred. Best of all it is desirable to say why the claimed event occurred, and link it to the fact that the region contains only one-eighth of the Commonwealth's population. That's actually interesting and says something about why there is distrust of Boston. As it stands, the statement is presently unsupported story-telling.

Re-opening the "cynical attitude" discussion, I think there's more power in saying critical, instead of cynical and that term would include more than a modest grumpy fraction of the Western Massachusetts population. Once again, linking it with the fact that there's not much leverage in having 20-odd representatives in a 160-representative house for which the ruling party has a veto-overriding authority makes a difference, and generates real understanding. Yellowdesk 01:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I added a couple of the more famous events in the history of Boston saying "Screw you" to Western Massachusetts. I could have added more (I was tempted to add the resentment of Western Mass of taxing the entire state to pay for Boston's "Big Dig"). While these events are certainly critical of Boston's thinking, I think cynical better describes the mood - except for Shay's Rebellion, no one ever really did more than just say "we don't like this," to which Boston responded with either, "awww, isn't that cute?" or "did someone just say something?" Stev0 01:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * That's something. I think it's really difficult to write a section with this kind of angle, and have it responsibly represent some 650,000 people. And generate understandiing as well. It's also difficult to defend it from criticism; basically the angle or topic would merit a whole article on its own.  The section is lacking in context explaining what led up to the events, and how disaffection could not be remedied by some loyal opposition. For example, it's ahistorcal in not explaining what Shay's beef was, and what the consequences of it were (ah...a strong new Federal goverment put forward by an elite with a lot to be concerned about).  On the corporate front, some in Greenfield would be delighted if some corporations were a little more interested in the area, like the long ago absorbed Millers Falls Tool Co, or the deflated Greenfield Tap and Die, or Bendix, Kollmorgon, or General Electric, and so on.  There's a lot going on that's tough to characterize. One could call it yankee independance, if there were more yankees.  Perhaps even worse, the views are shared statewide, in kind with people from the outer Cape, and Islands, from New Bedford, or from Lowell, Lawrence,  and mid-Worcester country, or in Essex county in the northeast, and even in sections of Boston itself, which all makes it hard to distinguish from the supposedly unique Western Massachusetts sentiment. Yellowdesk 09:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * While your average Bostonian thinks the border of the state is Route 93, they all know where the Cape and the Islands are, especially on a weekend in the summer. Four out of five Bostonians could easily point to Plymouth, Lowell, or Worcester on a map; however, since Western Mass is the furthest geographically, probably one Bostonian in 10 could point to Springfield on a map, or is even aware there's such a city in their state.  In other words, Western Mass feels the brunt of Boston's self-absorbed nature the most.
 * A personal anecdote I think demonstrates this best. I live in Western Mass, and have a good friend who lives in Boston. Her job takes her to remote third-world villages in Africa and in the middle of the jungle in Central America.  These are places no roads go, or ever will go.  Yet she refuses to visit me in Western Mass because "it's too difficult to get to."  Stev0 14:16, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Link spam?
Why accept the "classifieds" but not the business directory link? - Denimadept 15:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

And why is the Western Mass Web Guide acceptable? Dragon Directories 17:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

 * You're right. I've removed those too. AJD 18:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Regarding talk of secession
I've heard of it too. It also comes up regarding the state's 5% sales tax. Which either every 2 or 3 out of the 5 cents went to the MBTA. Western Mass. persons in the past have said they have to pay the sales tax to support the MBTA and yet the MBTA doesn't goto western Mass. And yes I've heard the same arguments about the Turnpike. Stating that all the recent construction was on the Boston end of the authority and that the Western half should be all paid up by now. And there was a huge battle cry from western Mass. that even though they travel the most road they shouldn't pay for the western half of the tolls. Easy quick google search under : "western Massachusetts 5% sales tax MBTA" CaribDigita (talk) 01:01, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
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Worcester
When is Worcester ever considered to be part of Western Massachusetts? john k (talk) 16:49, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

 * By people from the Boston area, where the "real" Massachusetts stops at Rte 128, and the words "Hic draconis est" are scrawled across the Berkshires. Otherwise, no.   Ravenswing   17:37, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Puzzling first sentence in Geography section
"There are 103 towns and 11 cities in Western Massachusetts, spread throughout five counties; however, none of these (formerly active) political entities retains any government functions."

Am I misunderstanding this somehow? None of the towns and cities in Western Mass have any government functions? 'Cause we elect a mayor and city council in Northampton, and we call it "city government". Even our city government thinks it's a government: http://www.northamptonma.gov/27/City-Government If nobody objects, I'm going to wait a couple of days and then strip out "however, ... functions."

BTW and OT, nice job on the History section editors, to me it comes across very wikipedian - neutral, factual, non-POV.

Spike0xff (talk) 20:35, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Clarified. Does that help?  Massachusetts county governments were dissolved by Governor Weld.  Massachusetts has NO unincorporated land area. - Denimadept (talk) 00:03, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Mm, not quite; only eight of the county governments were abolished. Plymouth, Suffolk, Bristol, Barnstable, Dukes and Nantucket are intact. That being said, the article's still a bit of a mess.  The lede is especially aggravating; it reads like a CoC brochure.  Anyone got the time to tackle it?   Ravenswing   00:31, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Western Massachusetts. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081007134002/http://walmartwatch.com/battlemart/resources/greenfield_ma_stops_wal_mart_rezoning/ to http://walmartwatch.com/battlemart/resources/greenfield_ma_stops_wal_mart_rezoning/

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Student Editor
I am a student editor currently taking a course at Texas A&M University, so will be working on this article for the next few weeks. I will be working on fixing the encyclopedic tone and some organization within the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nellybelly19 (talk • contribs) 17:08, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Are Roadways Necessary?
As I begin looking at this page and comparing it to similar pages for regions, I notice that not all list the "major" roadways present. Is this information that's really necessary to have? If so, is there a way it could be better organized? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nellybelly19 (talk • contribs) 06:05, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Deleting the "Leisure activities and places of historical interest" section
This section creates the tone of a guidebook, which is not the purpose of Wikipedia (WP:not). I don't see the necessity for it on this page. , you reverted my original edit to delete this section, so I wanted to give you and others the chance to weigh in. Thanks, Nellybelly19 (talk) 02:36, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

 * I initially undid the edits as they appeared like unsourced deletions, and in general I err on the side of preserving information. Looking at it more closely, I agree with you Nellybelly19 about the section Western_Massachusetts that you mentioned on my talk page, and I think it could be edited to be more encyclopedic.
 * However, the section on Native inhabitants is of historical importance and I'd rather see it in a more complete form instead of being edited to the point of superficiality. It was | these edits which I undid because they appeared to be counterproductive. I can see that you went ahead and restored those edits despite them being rolled back by more than one editor. Since this is the section you keep editing, not the section on leisure activities and places of historical interest, we should focus on that first. Before deleting the information again it's usually best to ask on the talk page. Perhaps can weigh in since they also reverted those edits. Auberginandjuice (talk) 05:26, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

 * I also think the Native inhabitants section is of historical importance and I do not see it as unencyclopedic or biased without rejecting the idea that it might be improved. makes a good point that this section could be better improved by revising it or adding to it rather than deleting text and a source. I think that one or more additional sources would be an improvement. Perhaps some additional and pertinent information could be found in related articles which would reduce the time needed for research. Donner60 (talk) 06:12, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

 * I agree with you both, and, that this information is of historical importance, but my concern is that this sub-section is overbearing and takes up more of the article than necessary. My goal in removing some of the information was to create more of an overview. There's so much information, almost written like an essay, that I almost think it could be its own article. Nellybelly19 (talk) 06:49, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

 * I understand your concerns but this is ultimately not helpful to readers who read the Western Massachusetts article and are interested in having a reasonably broad overview of the history of the region. I think that WP:IMPROVEDONTREMOVE applies here. I do see that you rephrased parts of the article which discussed politics and contemporary attitudes in Western Mass and that was definitely an improvement. However, it would probably be best to reinstate that info on native inhabitants, and probably also the info on the Colonial and early Federal period. This did not seem overly essay-like and if parts were they would be better rephrased than not present at all. If you and agree, we might go ahead and reinclude those sections. Auberginandjuice (talk) 22:42, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

 * I agree. Donner60 (talk) 03:14, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

 * Since we seem to have a consensus, I am going to restore the info deleted by NellyBelly19 to the sections on Native Inhabitants and Colonial and early Federal period, with maybe a few minor copyedits to help with tone/wikilinking/etc. Auberginandjuice (talk) 21:18, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 January 2020 and 20 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nellybelly19.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art (Mass MOCA)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Museum_of_Contemporary_Art Thomswift1 (talk) 01:01, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

 * ... what about it?   Ravenswing     04:06, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Western Massachusetts


text:
Ksaver Šandor Gjalski

Ljubomil Tito Josip Franjo Babić, better known by his pen name Ksaver Šandor Gjalski, (also cited as Đalski, both ; 26 October 1854 – 6 February 1935) was a Croatian novelist and civil servant.

Biography
He was born in Gredice near Klanjec in Hrvatsko Zagorje into a minor aristocratic family. His father Tito was a feudal lord and lawyer who served as a representative in Sabor and was a strong supporter of the Croatian national revival. His mother Helena was the daughter of Franjo Ksaver Šandor Gjalski, also a feudal lord and lawyer, from whom Ljubomil took his pen name in 1884. His mother was also a relative of the Croatian poet Antun Mihanović. He finished gymnasium in Varaždin in 1871 and went on to study law in Zagreb between 1871 and 1873 before finishing his studies in Vienna in 1876, before finally passing the national exam in 1878. In 1880, he moved to Virovitica, where he met his future wife, Vilma Gönner, a teacher at the local girls' school. He served the royal government in Zagreb between 1891 and 1898, but, due to disagreements with the Khuen government, returned to Grenice.

Gjalski, however, remained involved in politics. In 1906, he was elected into the Sabor, aligning himself with the Croat-Serb Coalition. From 1917 to 1918, he held the post of župan of the Zagreb County. Between 1919 and 1920, he served as a member of the Provisional National Representation in the newly formed Kingdom of Yugoslavia in Belgrade, retiring at the end of 1920. He served twice as the president of the Croatian Writers' Association (1909-1918, 1926)

Gjalski wrote many novels, but his best known work is Under Old Roofs (Pod starim krovovima), a collection of short stories in which he described the economic decline of the Croatian aristocracy. His writings were heavily inspired by Turgenev and Šenoa, as well as realism and romanticism in general.

Major works

 * In the New Castle (U novom dvoru, 1885)
 * Under Old Roofs (Pod starim krovovima, 1886)
 * U noći (At Night, 1887)
 * Janko Borislavić (1887)
 * Đurđica Agićeva (1889)
 * Na rođenoj grudi (1890)
 * Dawn (Osvit, 1892)
 * Radmilović (1894)
 * For the Maternal Word (Za materinsku rieč, 1902)
 * Arrival of the Croats (Dolazak Hrvata, 1924)
 * Misappropriated Ideals (Pronevjereni ideali, 1925)

title: Ksaver Šandor Gjalski


text:
Shore power

Shore power or shore supply is the provision of shoreside electrical power to a ship at berth while its main and auxiliary engines are shut down. While the term denotes shore as opposed to off-shore, it is sometimes applied to aircraft or land-based vehicles (such as campers, heavy trucks with sleeping compartments and tour buses), which may plug into grid power when parked for idle reduction.

The source for land-based power may be grid power from an electric utility company, but also possibly an external remote generator. These generators may be powered by diesel or renewable energy sources such as wind or solar.

Shore power saves consumption of fuel that would otherwise be used to power vessels while in port, and eliminates the air pollution associated with consumption of that fuel. A port city may have anti-idling laws that require ships to use shore power. Use of shore power may facilitate maintenance of the ship's engines and generators, and reduces noise.

Oceangoing ships
"Cold ironing" is specifically a shipping industry term that came into use when all ships had coal-fired engines. When a ship tied up at port, there was no need to continue to feed the fire and the iron engines would cool down, eventually going completely cold – hence the term "cold ironing". Commercial ships can use shore-supplied power for services such as cargo handling, pumping, ventilation and lighting while in port, they need not run their own diesel engines, reducing air pollution emissions. Examples are ferries and cruise ships for hotel electric power, and a salmon feeder ship uses shore power while at the salmon farm.

Small craft
On small private boats, electrical power supply on board is usually provided by 12 or 24 volt DC batteries whilst at sea unless the vessel has a generator. When the vessel is berthed in a marina or harbourside, mains electricity is often offered via a shore power connection. This allows the vessel to use a battery charger to recharge batteries and also to run mains-powered AC devices such as TV, washing machine, cooking appliances and air conditioning. The power is usually provided from a power pedestal on the dock which is often metered or has a card payment system if electricity is not provided free of charge. The vessel connects to the supply using a suitable shore power cable.

Trucks
Shore power, as it relates to the trucking industry, is commonly referred to as "Truck Stop Electrification" (TSE). The US Environmental Protection Agency estimates that trucks plugging in versus idling on diesel fuel could save as much as $3240 annually. there were 138 truck stops in the USA that offer on-board systems (also called Shore power) or off-board systems (also called single system electrification) for an hourly fee. Auxiliary power units offer another alternative to both idling and shore power for trucks.

Aircraft
Similar to shore power for ships, a ground power unit (GPU) may be used to supply electric power for an aircraft on the ground, to sustain interior lighting, ventilation and other requirements before starting of the main engines or the aircraft auxiliary power unit (APU). It is also used by aircraft with APUs if the airport authority does not permit the usage of APUs at its docks or if the carrier wishes to save on the use of jet fuel (which APUs use). This may be a self-contained engine-generator set, or it may convert commercial power to the voltage and frequency needed for the aircraft (for example 115 V 400 Hz).

Trains and buses
Shore power may be a grid connection for passenger trains laying over between runs. Similarly buses may be connected when not in use.

title: Shore power


text:
Tarbela Dam

Tarbela Dam (د توربېلې بند, ) is an earth-filled dam along the Indus River in Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province. It is located mainly in the |Haripur Tehsil Ghazi

It is about 20 km from the city of Swabi KPK, 105 km northwest of Islamabad, and 125 km east of Peshawar. It is the largest earth-filled dam in the world. The dam is 143 m high above the riverbed and its reservoir, Tarbela Lake, has a surface area of approximately 250 km2.

The Tarbela Dam is located on the Indus River near the village of Tarbela in Bara, approximately 30 kilometers from the town of Attock. Positioned where the Indus River emerges from the foothills of the Himalayas and enters the Potwar Plateau, the dam features a reservoir for water storage. The average annual flow available is 101 billion cubic meters (3221 m3/sec). It stands 143 meters tall and covers an area of 243 square kilometers. It has a storage capacity of 11.9 billion cubic meters of water and has nine gates to control the outflow of water. The dam was completed in 1976 and was designed to utilize water from the Indus River for irrigation, flood control, and the generation of hydroelectric power by storing flows during the monsoon period while subsequently releasing stored water during the low flow period in winter. The installed capacity of the 4,888 MW Tarbela hydroelectric power stations will increase to 6,418 MW after completion of the planned fifth extension financed by Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank and the World Bank. Then, it will be the 12th largest hydroelectric dam in the world, for electricity production capacity.

Project description
The dam is at a narrow spot in the Indus River valley, named after the town of Tarbela in the Haripur District of the Hazara Division within the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan.

The main dam wall, built of earth and rock fill, stretches 2743 m from the island to river right, standing 148 m high. A pair of concrete auxiliary dams spans the river from the island to river left. The dam's two spillways are on the auxiliary dams rather than the main dam. The main spillway has a discharge capacity of 18406 m3/s and the auxiliary spillway, 24070 m3/s. Annually, over 70% of water discharged at Tarbela passes over the spillways and is not used for hydropower generation.

Five large tunnels were constructed as part of the outlet works. Hydroelectricity is generated from turbines in tunnel 1 through 3, while tunnels 4 and 5 were designed for irrigation use. Both tunnels are to be converted to hydropower tunnels to increase Tarbela's electricity-generating capacity. These tunnels were originally used to divert the Indus River while the dam was being constructed.

MA hydroelectric power plant on the right side of the main dam houses 14 generators fed with water from outlet tunnels 1, 2, and 3. There are four 175 MW generators on tunnel 1, six 175 MW generators on tunnel 2, and four 432 MW generators on tunnel 3, for a total generating capacity of 3,478 MW.

Tarbela Reservoir is 80.5 km long, with a surface area of 250 km2. The reservoir initially stored 11600000 acre.ft of water, with a live storage of 9700000 acre.ft, though this figure has been reduced over the subsequent 35 years of operation to 6800000 acre.ft due to silting. The maximum elevation of the reservoir is 1550 ft above MSL and the minimum operating elevation is 1392 ft above MSL. The catchment area upriver of the Tarbela Dam is spread over 168000 km2 of land largely supplemented by snow and glacier melt from the southern slopes of the Himalayas. There are two main Indus River tributaries upstream of the Tarbela Dam. These are the Shyok River, joining near Skardu, and the Siran River near Tarbela.

Background
Tarbela Dam was constructed as part of the Indus Basin Project after signing of the 1960 Indus Waters Treaty between India and Pakistan. The purpose was to compensate for the loss of water supplies of the eastern rivers (Ravi, Sutlej and Beas) that were designated for exclusive use by India per terms of the treaty. By the mid-1970s, power generation capacity was added in three subsequent hydro-electrical project extensions which were completed in 1992, installing a total of 3,478 MW generating capacity.

Construction
Construction of Tarbela Dam was carried out in three stages to meet the diversion requirements of the river. Construction was undertaken by the Italian firm Salini Impregilo.

Stage 1
In the first stage, the Indus River was allowed to flow in its natural channel, while construction works commenced on the right bank where a 1500 ft long and 694.8 ft wide diversion channel was being excavated along with a 105 ft high buttress dam that was also being constructed. Stage 1 construction lasted approximately 2½ years.

Stage 2
The main embankment dam and the upstream blanket were constructed across the main valley of the river Indus as part of the second stage of construction. During this time, water from the Indus river remained diverted through the diversion channel. By the end of construction works in stage 2, tunnels had been built for diversion purposes. Stage 2 construction took 3 years to complete.

Stage 3
Under the third stage of construction, works were carried out on the closure of the diversion channel and construction of the dam in that portion while the river was made to flow through diversion tunnels. The remaining portion of upstream blanket and the main dam at higher levels was also completed as part of stage 3 works, which were concluded in 1976.

Re-settlement of people affected by Tarbela Dam
An area of about 260 square kilometers and about 82,000 acre of land was acquired for construction. The large reservoir of the dam submerged 135 villages, which resulted in the displacement of a population of about 96,000 people, many of whom were relocated to townships surrounding the Tarbela Reservoir or in adjacent higher valleys.

For the land and built-up property acquired under the Land Acquisition Act of 1984, a cash compensation of Rs 469.65 million was paid to those affected. In the absence of a national policy, the resettlement concerns of the people displaced by the Tarbela Dam were addressed on an ad hoc basis. In 2011, many such people had still not been resettled or given land in compensation for their losses by the government of Pakistan, in accordance with its contractual obligations with the World Bank.

Lifespan
Because the source of the Indus River is glacial meltwater from the Himalayas, the river carries huge amounts of sediment, with an annual suspended sediment load of 200 million tons. Live storage capacity of Tarbela reservoir had declined more than 33.5 per cent to 6.434 million acre feet (MAF) against its original capacity of 9.679 MAF because of sedimentation over the past 38 years. The useful life of the dam and reservoir was estimated to be approximately 50 years. However, sedimentation has been much lower than predicted, and it is now estimated that the useful lifespan of the dam will be 85 years, to about 2060.

Pakistan plans to construct several large dams upstream of Tarbela, including the Diamer-Bhasha Dam. Upon completion of the Diamer-Bhasha dam, sediment loads into Tarbela will be decreased by 69%.

Project benefits
In addition to fulfilling the primary purpose of the dam, i.e., supplying water for irrigation, Tarbela Power Station has generated 341.139 billion kWh of hydro-electric energy since commissioning. A record annual generation of 16.463 billion kWh was recorded during 1998–99. Annual generation during 2007–08 was 14.959 billion kWh while the station shared peak load of 3702 MW during the year, which was 23.057% of total WAPDA system peak.

Tarbela-IV Extension Project
Tarbela dam extension-IV was planned in June, 2012, and PC-1 was developed for the project. US ambassador Richard Olson offered aid for construction of this project during his visit to Pakistan, in March, 2013. In September 2013, Pakistan's Water and Power Development Authority signed a Rs. 26.053 billion contract with Chinese firm Sinohydro and Germany's Voith Hydro for executing civil works on the 1,410 MW Tarbela-IV Extension Project. Construction commenced in February 2014, and was completed in February 2018.

This project was constructed on Tunnel No. 4 of Tarbela Dam. It consists of three turbine-generator units, each with a capacity of 470 MW. The project is expected to provide an average of 3.84 billion units of electricity annually to the National Grid. It is intended to help supplement electricity supply during the high-demand summer months.

Annual benefits of the project were estimated at Rs. 30.7 billion. On an annual basis, over 70% of water passing through Tarbela is discharged over spillways, while only a portion of the remaining 30% is used for hydropower generation.

The Water and Power Development Authority in Pakistan says the third and last unit at its 1,410-MW Tarbela 4th Extension Hydropower Project has been synchronized with the National Grid. With this extension, the installed capacity of the Tarbela Hydel Power Station has increased to 4,888 MW.

Financing
The project's cost was initially estimated to be $928 million, but the cost was revised downwards to $651 million. The World Bank had agreed to provide an $840 million loan for the project in June 2013.

The loan had two components: The first is a $400 million International Development Association loan, which will be lent as a concessional loan at low interest rates. The second portion consists of a $440 million from the World Bank's International Bank for Reconstruction and Development. Pakistan's Water and Power Development Authority was to provide the remaining $74 million required for construction, before the project's cost was downwardly revised by $277 million. Interest costs for the loans are estimated to cost $83.5 million.

Because of revised lower costs to $651 million from $928 million, the World Bank permitted Pakistani officials to expedite completion of the project by 8 months at a cost of an additional $51 million. Pakistani officials were also permitted to divert $126 million towards the Tarbela-V Extension Project.

Tarbela-V Extension Project
The Tarbela Dam was built with five original tunnels, with the first three dedicated to hydropower generation, and the remaining two slated for irrigation use. The fourth phase extension project uses the first of the two irrigation tunnels, while the fifth phase extension will use the second irrigation tunnel. Pakistan's Water and Power Development Authority sought expressions of interest for the Tarbela-V Extension Project in August 2014, and was given final consent for construction in September 2015.

The hydropower project of tunnel 5 has two major components: power generation facilities and power evacuation facilities. The major works included under the project are modifications to tunnel 5 and building a new power house and its ancillaries to generate about 1,800GWh of power annually, a new 50 km of 500kV double-circuit transmission line from Tarbela to the Islamabad West Grid Station for power evacuation, and a new 500kV Islamabad West Grid Station.

Construction commenced in August 2021 and will require an estimated 3.5 years for completion. The project will require the installation of three turbines with a capacity of 510 MW each in Tarbela's fifth tunnel which was previously dedicated to agricultural use. Upon completion, the total power generating capacity of Tarbela Dam will increase to 6,418 MW.

Financing
In November 2015, the World Bank affirmed that it would finance at least $326 million of the project's estimated $796 million cost which includes $126 million of funding that was diverted from the $840 million fourth phase extension project after costs for that project were revised downwards. In September 2016, the World Bank approved an additional financing of $390 million for the fifth extension hydropower project of Tarbela dam that will support the scaling up of the power generation capacity by adding 1,530 megawatts to the existing tunnel 5.

The project will be financed by the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD), with a variable spread and 20-year maturity, including a six-year grace period. This will be the first World Bank-supported project in South Asia to be jointly financed with the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) which will be providing $300m and the Government of Pakistan $133.5m. The total cost of the project is $823.5m.

title: Tarbela Dam