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Talk:Curse and mark of Cain

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For very old discussions see: /Archive001

Mormonism/LDS
This article currently includes two sections in sequence discussing the subject from the perspective of Mormon theology. I suggest these be merged, even if there is some distinction between the larger Mormon movement and its most significant organized body. I am not qualified to write on the subject, but hope someone with a knowledge of the material can condense it sensibly.72.49.66.68 (talk) 07:45, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Why are there two sections on Mormonism/LDS on this subject? That seems to be a bit much. Even if they have unique doctrines devoting this much space to the beliefs of one sect seems to be "unbalanced." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leewsb (talk • contribs) 13:08, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I've cleaned up the LDS section somewhat. Multiple references making the same point are redundant and I've removed some of those redundancies while leaving the first reference intact. Additionally I've streamlined some of the text and added information. I know that one individual has reverted one of my previous attempts to clean up the Mormonism section which was also redundant. If we are going to talk about the details of LDS/Mormon doctrine I suggest that those finer points be moved to the article on Blacks and The LDS Church. Leewsb (talk) 13:51, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I suggest that we remove the following section as the preceding text in that section has already demonstrated that this was a belief of Mr. Smith and there is really no need to have multiple references. Again, I think that expositions on the details of LDS theology/doctrines should be moved to appropriate articles on LDS beliefs. This article is meant to be an overview of the origin and effect of this particular 19th and 20th century belief.

Further evidence that Smith believed persons of African descent were descendants of Cain is found in his translation of the Book of Abraham, published in 1842 which states:

 * The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden.

 * When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land. [...]

 * Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

--Leewsb (talk) 14:00, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the block of text above due to the reasons stated. --Leewsb (talk) 16:28, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Religioustolerance.org
This article uses the religioustolerance.org website as either a reference or a link. Please see the discussion on Wikipedia talk:Verifiability/Religioustolerance.org and Verifiability/Religioustolerance.org as to whether Wikipedia should cite the religioustolerance.org website, jguk 14:07, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Depictions of Cain and the mark in popular culture
Something that might be of some use for the article is a section on uses of Cain in pop culture. I know that he was a fairly prominent side character in The Sandman and its companion series The Dreaming, and that in those series the mark was depicted as a ring on his forehead that was either darker or more pale than his skin (depending on the story). Just a thought. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 16:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

 * A popular culture section is a wonderful idea, Willbyr. The mark of Cain played a dominant role in the series Supernatural, for example.  (Cain transfers the mark to Dean so that Dean could wield the first blade against the dæmon Abbadon, but the mark's power is too strong and it turns Dean into a dæmon.  Sam seeks the witch Rowena's help in removing the mark from Dean, and they are successful.  But, as Death tells Dean, the mark was a seal designed by God to lock away His sister, the Darkness, which he'd given to His favourite son, Lucifer.  The mark corrupted Lucifer, who then passed it on the Cain.  When Sam and Rowena remove the mark from Dean, it releases the Darkness.  (Indeed, it was this sequence of events that led God to come out of anonymity.  (God and the Darkness eventually reconcile.)))  allixpeeke (talk) 14:08, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

Horns
Does anyone else have any ideas on what the acctual mark was so far horns is the only explanation with a source

It shall be done, that no more of this rhetoric spout by thoughtless fools will be free to tarnish true knowledge within a thought process! In other words who agrees that this "unsigned coward" has obviously fallen of the rocker!

The below text was up a bit but that was some thoughtless banter that if the OP wants it back then they can debate their mind with FACTS to provide reason for such tripe to clutter thoughtful knowledge!

"look the the mark was not black its white thats what drove them north to the woods the thin hair wasnt good under the sun the white skin was getting burnt they had to think of new ways of life since life the way it was meant to be was denied to them. Think about the white race if you harm them isnt the punnishment 7 fold look at the atom bomb. come on poeple we are the descendents of cain and God allowed satan to put thoughts into our minds to create what weve created and make a home for the wicked and allow the evil to dwell amoung us.in the end of times the antichrist will come with the power to fool any who hear his words but he will be in the flesh as Jesus was when He was here so how do you think he will fool the whole world at once the satalites the t.v.s radios God made it hard on him but gave him a fighting chance with the descendents of Cain as his help mates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.110.47.81 (talk • contribs) "

Overview?
As I read this article, I get the strong impression that we are talking about specific US-centric religious interpretations of the story of Cain, which were used as support for racist practices over the last couple of centuries. Would this be a fair summary? If so, I would think it would be an improvement to put an overview in the leading paragraph to this effect.Trishm 09:28, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Modern Christian reactions against racial interpretations
This section has a number of errors in it. Under the list of "black" individuals in the Bible Job is included.Neither Jewish lore or other lore I've ever uncovered lists Job as such. His location in the land of Uz is generally believed to be eastern Israel or Jordan. This should as least have a reference to where it came from. -- Black arrow 09:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Was Neanderthal Man the descendant of Cain, as suggested on www.CreationFoundation.co.uk? Putting aside the question of chronology for the moment, Neanderthal matches well with Cain -- with the author of "In Search of Neanderthal" suggesting that Neanderthal acquired his ferocious look because "Perhaps it provided a signal, even a threat to others" -- i.e. a clear "mark" warning them that here was a violent person, one best avoided.

It seems significant that DNA studies support this theory by showing Neanderthal to be an early and separate side branch rather than a direct ancestor of modern man -- a race that developed apart, on the fringes of the mainstream, just as Genesis suggests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.78.92.184 (talk • contribs)

 * I doubt a discussion on www.CreationFoundation.co.uk is sufficient to show verifiably that this theory is notable within the community of creationism "experts". If notability can be established, it can go in the article. Without really looking into the issue, I kind of doubt whether this theory has yet passed the threshhold from crackpot theory to crackpot-theory-with-a-following, which is required for inclusion in Wikipedia.  CO GD EN  21:09, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

''According to some scholars, some early interpretations of the Bible in Syriac Christianity combined the "curse" with the "mark", and interpreted the curse of Cain as black skin. (Goldenberg, p. 180). Relying on rabbinic texts, it is argued, the Syriacs interpreted a passage in the Book of Genesis 4:5 ("And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.") as implying that Cain underwent a permanent change in skin color. (Id.) The permanent change could have been leprous or white skin as well. It is peculiar that the the mitochondrial (first woman)Eve has been archeologically proven to be black african features[citation needed], but somehow during biblical times the first people were "white" and cursed to be "black". Maybe the mark of Cain was to be turned "white" in an environment where everyone else was "black". That too would make a person stand out. '' Sounds awfully speculative there towards the end. I'm dumping the last few sentences, but I think that second viewpoint should be addressed somehow. I just don't know enough on the subject to write it myself. Sameer Kale 01:08, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Non-racial interpretations
Don't we need some material on earlier interpretations? I think I read somewhere that some ancient or medieval text said the mark of Cain was a horn, and Beowulf includes a bunch of monsters as Cain's descendants. 74.227.173.139 16:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

mormon fundimentalists
The mormon fundimentalists are not I repeate not a small branch of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They are not associated with the church in any shape,form,or fashion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.102.163.132 (talk) 18:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Which translation?
The verses from the Bible were just changed from the King James Version to a more-recent translation. We should decide on which translation should be used before someone reverts it back. — Val42 03:35, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

A thought
Is it possible that the mark of Cain speaks about an emotion rather than a physical mark on the body or color of skin. Consider the fact that no one had ever been killed before. So the mark of Cain has to be any act of aggression, anger, frustration, jealousy, envy, deceit, corruption. Which prior to Cain actions had never been seen before. This transcends race for we are all "Cain until we are Able" literally. Thus any act other than a Godly act is an act of Cain, which is immediately recognized. KiNazir (talk) 16:22, 19 December 2007 (UTC) um, no, but if you have a source of a book or some people believing that then post it up there. Rds865 (talk) 18:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Racial Themes?
While it certainly has some relevance here, why is the bulk of this article concerned with the history of racial discrimination by religious groups? Perhaps that should be given an article on its own and only brielfy mentioned, with a link, in this article, which is about the mark of Cain and not the misunderstandings of that mark in regards to race. 74.193.145.25 (talk) 13:59, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Though this article is quite interesting, it doesn't really deal with the general "Mark of Cain", just one possible version of it. And again, though very interesting, I don't see what the rascist view of the mark has to do with this article at all...this is supposed to be about the mark and curse themselves, where as this article is predominantly about the political aspects of one of the possible marks. This is like writing an article on Richard Lionheart and dedicating 3/4 of the article to his possible homosexuality. Maybe a seperate article for the political aspects of this one possible mark? Wolf 63.76.209.49 (talk) 17:34, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I concur. While brief statements on the religious implications and their social impacts is acceptable as part of the topic, it seems that this article has lost focus. Perhaps there should be a separate article detailing specifically the religious implications.--Leewsb (talk) 14:21, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

How can Cain even be the ancestor of the black race according to some people when according to a strict reading of the text (like most of those supporters would read it as) says that all the rest of humanity came from Noah?137.118.100.224 (talk) 18:02, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Separate Mormonism and LDS sections
Is there any reason that these are two separate sections? The second (LDS) section seems to rely over strongly on quotations and largely covers the same information as the Mormon section. Im not very familiar with the subject and would prefer not to be the one to the merging, but I might if no one else is willing to do it. Black Platypus (talk) 00:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Interesting Article on the Subject
can be found here: http://www.aish.com/literacy/exploring/The_Death_of_Cain._The_Worlds_First_Murder3_Epilogue1.asp —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.112.150 (talk) 23:26, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

About that quote from Bruce R Mconkie from the talk "All Are Alike unto God" #22, I couldn't find that quote anywhere online. Could you give me a link? I searched the LDS.org website and the talk titled "All Are Alike unto God" was by Howard W Hunter and I didn't find that quote anywhere in that talk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.202.7.85 (talk) 20:06, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Sagittal keel
Has anyone heard the anthropological concept that Cain was a pre-sapien and that he bore some ancestral trait like a sagittal keel or subnasal prognathism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.45.92 (talk) 19:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I too have heard he could've been represenative of the Neanderthal race. In this theory, the mark would be the big brow ridge that was the racial trait they had or maybe their great brute strength.

Another idea is that since they didn't have refined animal skins, and they had ridges on their fingers while young like chimps, they could've been more hairy on average than modern man. This, along with the other two traits above, would cause people to think they were rough and tough and not want to mess with them.137.118.100.224 (talk) 04:23, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Include the Mormonism/LDS sections as subsections under the Protestant section
From a religious studies and anthropological point of view the Mormon/LDS sects are branches of Protestantism and should be included in the religious response of that overall section. I realise that adherents and counter cultists will both disagree, but those are statements of faith and these are intended to be NPOV articles so how about we stick with the academic classifications?--Leewsb (talk) 16:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Modern opinion on racial interpretations
The section includes a list of claimed arguments against the racist interpretation of the mark of Cain, but none of these are sourced. While it's obvious that these arguments have been made, in their current form they read like an amateur list from a drive-by editor. The individual arguments need to be sourced and attributed within the prose.99.39.88.159 (talk) 14:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Zohar "easier to read" edits' loss of accuracy
As of now, the article credits the Zohar as the source where the "mark of Cain was the letter vav" theory originated. The wording of the source is that it was one of the 22 letters of the Torah. The only place vav is singled-out on the page is by the commentary added by Berg. Also the commentator is not even sure himself if it was the letter vav at all as indicated by the question mark in his note: God inscribed the Hebrew Letter Vov ? onto the forehead of Cain. It is possible, but unlikely, that the Zohar specifically singles-out vav elsewhere but if Berg missed it, I doubt such a source exists in the Zohar's Aramaic text. The article shouldn't say the Zohar mentions something when it doesn't. I am editing the section back to its original 22 letters of the Torah wording to preserve accuracy rather than teach original theories of questionable origin. —Thelazyleo (talk) 10:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

 * It originally said 'The Zohar, a Kabbalah text, states that the mark of Cain the letter was vav and that it was was one of the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet.' The source quoted says '458. "And Hashem set a mark upon Kayin lest anyone finding him should smite him" (Beresheet 4:15). This is one of the 22 letters of the Torah, WHICH IS THE LETTER VAV that He placed upon him for his protection.'  I didn't even add the capitalization there.  It does say that it was Vav, and it is not in the commentary by Berg.  If you can find another translation of the Zohar that does not say Vav, feel free to point out that this is disputed by different translators, or perhaps we could go with something like "one of the 22 letters, some suggest vav."  Ian.thomson (talk) 12:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Wrong, the credit goes to Berg's commentary on the Zohar, not the Zohar itself as the article is mis-crediting! There is no mention of "the letter vav" in the Aramaic only that it was one of the 22 letters. Berg's translation writes "WHICH IS THE LETTER VAV" in caps to separate it from the literal translation (lowercase words). A literal translation can be obtained from Berg's translation and omitting all the capital words:

 * 458. "And Hashem set a mark upon Kayin lest anyone finding him should smite him" (Beresheet 4:15). This is one of the 22 letters of the Torah, that He placed upon him for his protection. Rabbi Yehuda asked: Why is it written, "And it came to pass, when they were in the field"? A field signifies a woman. Thus, he rose and killed. For it is from the side of woman, that he inherited his murderous tendency, which is the aspect of Samael that brought death to the whole world similarly, Kayin was jealous of Hevel because of his wife, Rabbi Chiya said: The reason was as it is written that "Kayin was very angry, and his face fell" (Ibid. 5). It was because his offering was not accepted answered, and all the reasons were before him.

 * There is no mention of "the letter vav" in the above paragraph so the Zohar cannot be credited for that theory, rather the translator is the one to be credited or another source elsewhere such as the Rashi which states that it was one of the letters of God's name however Rashi never singles out Vav. Here is another source: http://books.google.com/books?id=cc6UlrEpnS8C&lpg=PP1&pg=PA29#v=onepage&q=&f=true. It quotes the Zohar that it was one of the twenty two letters of the Torah and set it upon him to protect him. There is no mention of the letter Vav in the quote since the Zohar never states which letter.

 * Your compromise of "one of the 22 letters, some suggest vav" would be acceptable.
 * — Thelazyleo (talk) 15:27, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Regarding 76.104.33.28
I have put up a sockpuppet investigation for 76.104.33.28, because he is clearly 67.172.216.127 continuing his POV pushing with the racist bullshit verbatim outside of his ban. Just letting everyone know. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

 * I'd like to thank Shirik for quickly banning him, and he as offered to semi-protect the page if that anon finds another IP address. Ian.thomson (talk) 23:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Leading language?
Hi, folks. Been a looooooong time since I've edited at WP (2-3 years) and I'm unfamiliar with the new tagging system for OR, NPOV, citations, etc. But there are quite a few instances of leading language and weasel words in this article, such as "One must note" and "It must be remembered". Must one? Must it? Or how about we just stick to relating the facts and letting people decide what is notable?

I'm not sure what is the currently approved system for tagging and noting these concerns. Could someone please advise me on this? Thanks. Kasreyn (talk) 22:58, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

How is it Ironic?
It is asserted the "mark" was an "act of irony" by God.

In what way was it "ironic"? It is not self-evident. Justification is required. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.68.36.68 (talk) 11:46, 7 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually read the rest of the sentence: "As an act of irony, the curse by God focused strictly on neutralizing the benefits of Cain's primary skill, cultivating crops." Ian.thomson (talk) 14:52, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Recent origin of Racial Interpretation
The topic above is subjective, controversial and somewhat "weird" to be in any ecyclopedia.

Egyptians, Turks and Syrians are not black neither were they in biblical times. Wether true, this information has no relevance to the issues discussed in this article.

This passage should not be in the main article and I propose its exclusion.

Popotão (talk) 07:16, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Cain Was Not the Beginning of the Black Race, Able Was most likely the Beginning of the White Race
Now first of all I will not be so arrogant as many have to proclaim to have all of the answers but this is just a deductive theory. The most likely scenario based on biblical and scientific evidence and based on the Bibles version of the creation of man is that Able was actually the beginning of the white race rather than Cain being the beginning of the black race.

Modern genetic and scientific discovery and the Bible says that life began in Africa in a hot region so if Adam and Eve were born of God in that region most likely they were of dark skin. Because to my knowledge there have never been many caucasians that are native to Africa or the middle eastern region. Therefore it is most likely that Adam and Eve were of darker skin and following that line of logic Able was actually the first white person rather than Cain being the first black person. It has already been proven that Africa is the cradle of the birth of humanity. So if there were some curse based on skin color (which I don't believe) the curse was upon Able not Cain. Afterall think about what a curse it would be to be born with non pigmented skin in a hot region when humans were still hunter-gatherers. Even Jesus was described as having hair like wool, like Africans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.190.169.138 (talk) 07:02, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Being that much of Christianity has been spread throughout the western world primarily by Europeans and White archeologists have been the primary explorers to research these things they over time with racial bias have projected all of the characters as white when in fact most were not caucasian at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.190.169.138 (talk) 07:20, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Sources: www.wikipedia.com, Out of Africa Theory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.190.169.138 (talk • contribs)
 * You'll want to look over our reliable sourcing guidelines. Wikipedia actually is not accepted as a source for Wikipedia, because it is user-generated and not stable.  Also, we don't take original research.  We just summarize what is already published.  Traditionally, Noah's son Japheth is considered the beginning of the white race, since the names of some of his kids sound kinda like certain Eurasian tribes.  Ian.thomson (talk) 12:20, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Time to organize the article.
There are currently three sections about Mormonism; an imbalance by volume alone. This has not been fixed in four years, according to the talk page. There are many unsupported statements related to Mormons and Baptists that should be edited. I intend to merge some sections and delete unsupported statements. --Yammie2009 (talk) 04:09, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll help...  —  Jasonasosa  08:22, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Statue of Cain cover image nudity vs religious audience
Do we really need a picture of protruding gonads on the page? Most of the people looking at this article are religious folks coming here for input on holy matters. Can we keep this article safe for work in respect of our religious audience? If this was an article dedicated to the discussion of the human body, nudity is understandable like on other areas of wikipedia. But on this page, where you have people offended by the presence of porn, it is uncalled for. -- T he l azy l eo  ( talk ) 01:18, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Objection: According to the English Oxford dictionary, it defines pornography as "printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate erotic rather than aesthetic or emotional feelings." Although Vidal's statue does display gonads, I do not believe that its intention is to stimulate erotic feelings. It is more than just art, it is a historical statue that exists in the Tuileries Garden that was created by Catherine de Medicis after the French Revolution. The Cain statue was inaugurated in 1896. So, I argue that Vidal's Cain is not offensive to mainstream religious audiences and that wikipedia ought not placate to the 1% who might. Thanks,  —  Jasonasosa  12:15, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Lol, I didn't look into the context enough to understand you painted that green-skirted Neanderthal only to make a point about sculptured genitals, or I would have tried to come up with a more witty edit summary removing it. ;-) Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:25, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
 * lol... well at least someone found some humor in it. :)  —  Jasonasosa  12:37, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Henry Vidal link in picture is to an actor circa 1914 not a sculptor from 1896... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.4.68 (talk) 15:42, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Religious audiences don't have a problem with nudity, it's prudish audiences do. Since most of our audience would be from nations with at least nominal Christian majorities, I'd guess our religious audiences would be more be worried about helping the poor and oppressed and fighting exploitation by wanna-be religious authorities.  Wait, damn, I guess we're not going to have much of a religious audience after all.  Ian.thomson (talk) 14:16, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

wanderer?
This quote "Modern interpretation of the Hebrew verse 12 suggest that Cain went on to live a nomadic lifestyle as well as being excluded from the family unit.[" should probably be deleted. The fact he lived in a family unit, had kids who developed all kinds of technology & etc. kind of render this "modern interpretation" moot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weedmic (talk • contribs) 13:46, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Additional reference
I won't add this to a section that needs clean-up, but when it gets cleaned-up, you should add The Skin of Our Teeth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Skin_of_Our_Teeth TeigeRyan (talk) 11:36, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Possible meaning of the mark
As Cain's name in Hebrew means "spear", has anyone considered the possibility that the "mark of Cain" might simply have been the "mark of a spear"? That is, either the wound-mark left by a spear; or perhaps the shape of a spear drawn indelibly on the skin. This, either as a talisman of protection, or the sign whereby Cain might be recognised and not harmed, though shunned by all. Nuttyskin (talk) 18:44, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Interesting idea but I'm not sure you can get there grammatically from Genesis 4:12. Looks more like put - to/on cain - a mark — not put - mark - of cain. (See also Septuagint version.) In other words "Mark of Cain" might be a term which arose later — when? I don't know; and the answer to that question might also be germane to the article. G-Books search along these lines doesn't turn up the exact idea you're presenting. But you may be able to find more ideas about the nature of the mark, with some searching. groupuscule (talk) 19:54, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

"Priesthood ban" bias
This has clearly been edited to cast LDS, and their 150-ish years of racial segregation, in a positive light. Please fix it. 70.30.100.138 (talk) 10:59, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

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Speculation on if Cain and Abel represent early human species/subspecies
The idea goes that one meaning behind the Cain and Abel story is that Cain represents H. sapiens sapiens and Abel represents H. sapiens neanderthalensis (or maybe another group). The former appears to have been around for 300kya, before the true Neanderthalers appeared, and we apparently tampered with gardening and small scale farming 40kya, around the time Neanderthals were died out and absorbed into the larger population. Neanderthals were nomads, hunters and gatherers, and may have tended herds (no evidence yet though). Adam and Eve would be early H. sapien groups like Heidelbergensis/Rhodesiansis (don't know how to spell that) or Homo erectus. Another idea I haven't heard is that when Cain was exiled he wandered until he built a city, much like how H. sapiens sapiens wandered all over the globe and started the first known cities. Nod is east of Eden, which was in the middle east, and the garden's rivers stretched all the way to Cush, where we find the first H. sapiens sapiens. Cain could've been hanging around those regions till he moved east to southwest/central Asia, which was great for growing food (fertile crescent went from Persia to Egypt/Cush). Meanwhile, Neanderthals lived in western Eurasia, in Europe and west/central Asia. Lots of those places have mountains and steppes with goats and probably sheep to tend.

Even though I don't entirely buy this idea, it does have some interesting points.137.118.100.224 (talk) 04:18, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Mark of Cain in popular culture
would such an entry be out of place here?

two examples I can think of are: Supernatural, the mark is a plot point in one season. In Vampire: The Masquerade franchise it is the origin of vamparism, although the prominent scholar in the series believes it's simply an allegory for the shift away from hunting to agriculture.

I'm sure there are others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.73.137.196 (talk) 19:42, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

Undue weight
Having most of the article be about use of the Mark of Cain to justify discrimination is clearly WP:UNDUE. Ken Arromdee (talk) 20:29, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Curse and mark of Cain


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User talk:JohnSolsma

Welcome
Hello, , and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type   on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 17:02, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:JohnSolsma


text:
Hinthada

Hinthada (ဟင်္သာတမြို့; formerly Henzada) is a city located on the Irrawaddy River in Ayeyarwady Region, Burma (Myanmar). In the 1983 census the city itself had a population of 82,005. By 2010 it had grown to 170,312. The trade of locally grown rice and grain goes through the port of Hinthada.

History
Historically, Hinthada was occupied by the Mon people (Talaings), and was part of the Pagan Empire.

Education
The city is home to University of Computer Studies, Hinthada and Hinthada University and Technological University, Hinthada.

Notable residents

 * Mahn Ba Khaing
 * Mahn Win Khaing Than

title: Hinthada


text:
User talk:CCR

Welcome
Hello, , and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type   on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 17:03, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called CCR. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name CCR~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

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title: User talk:CCR


text: User talk:218.102.84.106

title: User talk:218.102.84.106


text:
Octene

Octene is an alkene with the formula C8H16. Several isomers of octene are known, depending on the position and the geometry of the double bond in the carbon chain.

The simplest isomer is 1-octene, an alpha-olefin used primarily as a co-monomer in production of polyethylene via the solution polymerization process. Several useful structural isomers of the octenes are obtained by dimerization of isobutene and 1-butene. These branched alkenes are used to alkylate phenols to give precursors to detergents.

title: Octene


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Free induction decay

In Fourier transform nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy, free induction decay (FID) is the observable nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) signal generated by non-equilibrium nuclear spin magnetization precessing about the magnetic field (conventionally along z). This non-equilibrium magnetization can be created generally by applying a pulse of radio-frequency close to the Larmor frequency of the nuclear spins.

If the magnetization vector has a non-zero component in the XY plane, then the precessing magnetisation will induce a corresponding oscillating voltage in a detection coil surrounding the sample. This time-domain signal (a sinusoid) is typically digitised and then Fourier transformed in order to obtain a frequency spectrum of the NMR signal i.e. the NMR spectrum.

The duration of the NMR signal is ultimately limited by T2 relaxation, but mutual interference of the different NMR frequencies present also causes the signal to be damped more quickly. When NMR frequencies are well-resolved, as is typically the case in the NMR of samples in solution, the overall decay of the FID is relaxation-limited and the FID is approximately exponential (with the time constant T2 changed, indicated by T2*). FID durations will then be of the order of seconds for nuclei such as 1H.

Particularly if a limited number of frequency components are present, the FID may be analysed directly for quantitative determinations of physical properties, such as hydrogen content in aviation fuel, solid and liquid ratio in dairy products (time-domain NMR).

Advances in the development of quantum-scale sensors, particularly NV centres, have enabled the observation of the FID of single nuclei. When measuring the precession of a single nucleus, quantum mechanical measurement back action has to be considered. In this special case, also the measurement itself contributes to the decay as predicted by quantum mechanics.

title: Free induction decay


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User talk:SantoshS

Welcome
Hello, , and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type   on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 17:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:SantoshS


text: User talk:216.23.112.181

title: User talk:216.23.112.181


text:
Cyclops Cave (Youra)

The Cyclops Cave, also called the Cave of the Cyclops, is on the uninhabited islet of Youra (or Gioura), in the Northern Sporades, (20 mile from Alonissos) off the coast of Thessaly in Greece. It is the location of an archaeological site with evidence of human occupation from the Mesolithic through the Late Neolithic periods. There is also later material, such as Roman lamps.

The site was excavated beginning in 1992 and continuing into 1996 by a team led by Adamantios Sampson, Inspector of Antiquities, during a project whose more general purpose was to clarify the prehistoric occupation sequence in the area, with an emphasis on the pre-pottery sequences from the Late Pleistocene. Ceramic fragments of painted pottery dated to 6000 BC – 5500 BC were found. Other evidence of human occupation includes the remains of sheep and goats. Excavation of layers of the Mesolithic period found ash and charcoal and an abundance of animal, bird, and fish bones, shells, scales, and a human skull. In this layer were also tools such as millstones and grinders, fish-hooks made from bone and other bone tools. There were also a small number of tools made from obsidian and siliceous rocks.

title: Cyclops Cave (Youra)


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Talk:Han Suyin

Date of birth etc.
Han Suyin was probably born not in 1917, but in 1916: http://www.asiawind.com/hakka/hansuyin.htm (in English) http://dikigoros.t35.com/frauen/hansuyin.htm (in German). 19:05, 23 August 2005 62.246.121.217

 * That evidence is not very strong: "I checked the Chinese lunar calendar and found out that it should be 1916, the year of the dragon, not as all the documents stated 1917", states one site, and the other site - besides expressing profound hatred for Wikipedia ("... deren Betreiber sich anheischig machen, ein "Universal-Lexikon" zu erstellen, indem sie möglichst viele Köche einen Brei anrühren lassen, der dann von irgendwelchen politisch-korrekten Zensoren vollends verdorben wird ..."), linking to pornography and containing racist jibes -, is just way beyond serious research. Their mathematic play with her birthday, combined with the assumption that her father must have been Yi ("Lolo"), is rather dubious.
 * Maybe fun to read as a polemic diatribe against Han Suyin (and the Chinese people and communism and university students in their first year, etc.), but many of the other "facts" presented are also plainly wrong. I don't think these are reliable sources. Even if we'd come to the conclusion that Han Suyin's statement about her date of birth are contradictory, it seems much more probable to me that she was right about the date and wrong about the circumstances. Babelfisch 01:44, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

My House Has Two Doors and Phoenix Harvest
I've just purchased a 1980 edition of My House Has Two Doors and it has Phoenix Harvest as Part Two. But you also find it as a separate book for sale on Amazon. It seems to be that they were one book in hardback and two separate books in paperback. Can anyone confirm this? --GwydionM (talk) 17:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Does Han Suyin count as Asian-American?
She was born in China, had a Belgian mother, trained and qualified as a doctor in England and her three husbands were Chinese, British and Indian. Where is the American connection? --GwydionM (talk) 19:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I know only that her work is commonly discussed by academic critics as being Chinese American. For instance, she gets a whole chapter in Asian American autobiographers: a bio-bibliographical critical sourcebook by Guiyou Huang, in Negotiating identities: an introduction to Asian American women's writing by Helena Grice, in Encyclopedia of Asian-American literature by Seiwoong Oh, etc. (all available through Google Books). Apparently she did spend some time living in the states, and even writers as cranky as Frank Chin have considered her one of the truest Asian American writers in the tradition. Good question though--and odd.... Aristophanes68 (talk) 21:56, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

 * I've read a few articles about her on the web and I can't find any evidence that she is American in any sense. I think she should be removed from all the American categories. According to this article she is British, but I don't consider it definitive: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-09/23/content_6776974.htm Tweisbach (talk) 15:27, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

 * In her chapter of Asian-American Writers, scholar Amy Ling acknowledges that Han "may not consider [herself] American and [...] may not even have lived any appreciable length of time in the United States." via Google Books Ling also claims that her books have been important to American audiences to be included under the label Asian American. Interesting. It's odd how often she comes up in Asian-American literary reference works without any discussion of her own history in/with America. Aristophanes68 (talk) 16:31, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

 * The best thing to do would be to remove those categories until there are sources that would indicate she belongs in them. He might be part of the reading list for Asian-American literature because she follows related themes, but that doesn't mean the categories apply. I'll go ahead and remove the categories. Tweisbach (talk) 11:59, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Han Suyin


text:
User talk:Davril2020

Welcome
Hello, , and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type   on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --Lord Voldemort (Dark Mark) 17:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
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Re: Jesus-Myth
Excellent recent edit. Well written & NPOV. Well done. Merry Christmas...KHM03 19:47, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

David Irving
The IP in question has been vandalizing various pages (mostly David Irving) for weeks now. I've blocked it for a week, and hoping it will come to its senses during its time off. Jayjg (talk) 20:57, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Eve Online
Darril, I refer you to eve's front page where it states: "At 20:44 this evening a new PCU milestone was reached when 22.020 EVE Players were logged in at the same time." "Record 17,000 Concurrent Gamers Pummel EVE" etc, etc. It needs to be noted that it's accounts/characters online, and not individual players as CCP and the fans like to make out. --Bastion

True, but(in my mind at least) player implies each is a specific person, and I think it should be mentioned in some way that it most definitely isnt.

For a game like WoW or DAoC where it's only possible to run 1 character at a time, it's ok but in eve running multiple accounts is the norm, rather than the exception. --Bastion 20:58, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

"Inappropriate Link"
It would be helpful if, as a responsible editor, you explained why you felt the link was inappropriate. You could have been courteous and left a message stating something so simple as "See TalkOrigins Archive talk page". As it is clear that it is associated with the discussion at TalkOrigins Archive, I will not revert your change (if at all) until that discussion has concluded, out of courtesy. Next time, however, please be more specific on what makes a change "inappropriate" unless it is clearly vandalism; several editors clearly did not feel that the link was so evidently inappropriate, as it has remained there through several edits (including reverts of POV material). This is a courtesy to others. Thank you for helping to make Wikipedia a better encyclopedia. The Jade Knight 04:54, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You are quite incorrect; if you bother looking at the talk.origins history, you'll see that I was not the one to insert the link (though I inserted it into the Archive page). As the discussion at the TalkOrigins Archive has not yet concluded, I think it's a bit premature to go around deleting things about which there is not yet consensus.  Please, however, refrain from levelling accusations unless you have done your research.  The Jade Knight 17:58, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Incomplete AfD
AfD nominations are made of three steps, which are described in Template:AfD_in_3_steps. You didn't perform the last step: adding the to the AfD page of the day. The trick is: once you have added to the page you want to nominate, the following steps are (very shortly) described at the bottom of the AfD box. (Liberatore, 2006). 10:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Email
Davril, I would like to email you but your Wiki email is not activated. JoshuaZ 03:30, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Ok, sent. JoshuaZ 18:18, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Ed Poor 2
Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Requests for arbitration/Ed Poor 2. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Ed Poor 2/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Ed Poor 2/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Tony Sidaway 00:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Intelligent Design Talk
You wrote on the talk page, Unless contradictory sources can be found and verified and I pointed out further down that the Legal Times is such a source calling John Umana a "leading proponent of Intelligent Design". Thanks for participating!Bagginator 01:24, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

 * What do you think of the others ive offered as WP:V and WP:RS? Here is my total list that meets that specific criteria. The San Francisco Chronicle, August 28 2005 calls Norris Gravlox, "a leading proponent of the intelligent design theory" the Tribeca Film Festival calls Jack Cashill, "a leading proponent of intelligent design." The Orlando Weekly from September 1st 2005 calls Mat Staver, "leading proponent of teaching intelligent design in public schools" and on May 26, 2006, the Legal Times calls John Umana, "a leading proponent of intelligent design" establishing WP:V and WP:RS.Bagginator 05:32, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Going to far one way is the same as going too far the other way. I can agree with you that using a humorist as WP:RS is not the way we should go with this. I disagree with you that we can only accept as WP:RS someone who has put in as much work as Forrest. Reporters are the perfect folks who should know who are and who are not leading proponents of an idea. Better even than teachers of Philosophy. As an aside, you didn't answer my questions about Jack Cashill. You listed him as being affiliated with Discovery Institute. Do you still hold that view and if so, why?Bagginator 05:25, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Also, i'd like to know what you think of William Harris. Is he affiliated with the Discovery Institute?Bagginator 08:57, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again for responding. To answer your concerns about reporters I have to say I emphatically disagree with your opinion on this. Reporters are uniquely situated to report on who are the leading experts in any given field. This is why so often reporters say, "Experts say" without even bothering to tell us who the experts are. And the public generally trusts that because the media tends to know who the experts are. It is also by virtue of media coverage that people become the leaders of movements. So while the media are not experts of science, or politics, or geography, they are experts on who the experts are in science, politics, or geography. So when you write
 * Bear in mind that if we accept what these reporters say then equally we must include references to ID being creationism, absurd, full of lies etc. simply because other reporters with equal experience have said so, even when the author is clearly misinformed about the subject

I couldn't agree with you more. The media are not the experts to tell us what Intelligent Design is. They are, however, the ones to tell us who we should trust to tell us what Intelligent Design is. And so when newspapers and television reports call someone, "A leading proponent" this seems to me the best way to determine who is a leading proponent of anything, not just Intelligent Design. This also satisfies encyclopedic requirements for editing articles. So far I believe ive seen three methods for determining who the leading proponents are. In no particular order they are, we decide ourselves, we allow reliable sources to tell us, only those who have written a critical book of the Intelligent Design movement approximately four years ago and testified in a court of law on their findings are capable of determining for us who the leading proponents are. Am I to take it that you endorse this last view, or do you have another view of how we can go about determining who leading proponents are?Bagginator 05:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Identifying our point of disagreement
After reading your most recent response to my suggestion of changing affiliated to the more appropriate associated I think ive identified our area of disagreement. This, combined with other suggestions you've made about wanting to define what a leading proponent is. This is all original research. I'm pretty new to Wikipedia and am happy to come up with whatever we all want to come up with. I believe we need to verify everything via reliable sources. Could you explain to me what rules of Wikipedia you are using to come up with your methods of editing this particular article and why it is alright for us to insert our own opinions over the opinions of reliable sources?Bagginator 14:44, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I also feel the following is constructive in regards to reliable sources
 * In some cases, there may be controversy or debate over what constitutes a legitimate or reputable authority or source. Where no agreement can be reached about this, the article should provide an account of the controversy and of the different authorities or sources. Such an account also helps ensure the article's neutral point of view.
 * You disagree with me on what constitutes a reliable source. But what is not deniable is that there are sources out there calling people not associated or affiliated with the Discovery Institute "Leading proponents" and according to this Wikipedia policy WP:OR we should at least make a note of this in the article.Bagginator 14:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

RE: RfC at Intelligent Design
To answer your question, at this point I do intend one but i'm waiting on an advocate to help me out. Ive never been involved with an RfC before, not sure on when to properly begin one, or what form it should take. I asked for an advocate many days ago (Just after reading through the archives at Intelligent Design and realizing what a challenge it would be) and they still havn't responded. Hope that answers your question. To be clear, I actually solicited an advocate on his talk page and he helped me out briefly didn't have the time, and he referred me to their list.Bagginator 02:15, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Ed Poor 2
This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above.

Ed Poor is placed on Probation. He may be banned from any article or set of articles by an uninvolved administrator for disruptive editing, such as edit warring, original research, and POV forking. All bans are to be logged at Requests for arbitration/Ed Poor 2.

For the Arbitration Committee. Arbitration Committee Clerk, FloNight 13:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Creation-evolution controversy Proposed Section
You reverted my addition; now it's your turn to discuss it (Talk:Creation-evolution_controversy). Pbarnes 23:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Evolutionary psychology forum
I thought that you might be interested to know that there is an evolutionary psychology forum over at the Psychology Wiki. It was set up a little more than a month ago but still hasn't been used yet. I'll inform other Wikipedians who I think may be interested, as well. EPM 21:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:08, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Davril2020


text:
Wikipedia:Collaboration of the week/Clothing in Africa

Clothing in Africa

 * Nominated on 17:06, August 23, 2005 (UTC); needs 10 votes by September 6.

Many clothing-related articles are sorely lacking or inexiastant. Of all the Regional styles of clothing, this one is the only existing, and not only POV, but badly written.

Support:
 * 1) Circeus 17:06, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) Newbie222 23:33, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) Janet13 06:14, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 4) Very stubby. Mark Lewis 15:06, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 5) Darwinek 14:23, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


text: Template:Regions of Denmark

title: Template:Regions of Denmark


text:
Juniperus osteosperma

Juniperus osteosperma (Utah juniper; syn. J. utahensis) is a shrub or small tree native to the southwestern United States.

Description
The plant reaches 3–6 m, rarely to 9 m, tall. The shoots are fairly thick compared to most junipers, 1.5–2 mm in diameter. The leaves are arranged in opposite decussate pairs or whorls of three; the adult leaves are scale-like, 1–2 mm long (to 5 mm on lead shoots) and 1–1.5 mm broad. The juvenile leaves (on young seedlings only) are needle-like, 5–10 mm long. The cones are berry-like, 8 – in diameter, blue-brown with a whitish waxy bloom, and contain a single seed (rarely two); they mature in about 18 months and are eaten by birds and small mammals. The male cones are 2–4 mm long, and shed their pollen in early spring. It is largely monoecious with both sexes on the same plant, but around 10% of plants are dioecious, producing cones of only one sex.

The plants frequently bear numerous galls caused by the juniper tip midge Oligotrophus betheli (Bibionomorpha: Cecidomyiidae); these are conspicuous pale violet-purple, produced in clusters of 5–20 together, each gall 1 – in diameter, with dense modified spreading scale-leaves 6 – long and 2–3 mm broad at the base.

Distribution and habitat
The species is native to the southwestern United States, in Utah, Nevada, Arizona, western New Mexico, western Colorado, Wyoming, southern Montana, southern Idaho and eastern California. It grows at moderate altitudes of 1,300 - 2,600 m, on dry soils, often together with Pinus monophylla.

Ecology
Seeds are dispersed by a variety of mammals and birds. Mammals include jackrabbits (mostly the black-tailed jackrabbit Lepus californicus spp.) rodents and to a lesser extent by coyotes (Canis latrans). Most notable among the birds that disperse juniper berries is the Townsend's solitaire (Myadestes townsendi).

Uses
Native Americans such as the Havasupai used the bark for a variety of purposes, including beds, and ate the cones both fresh and in cakes. The Havasupai used the gum to make a protective covering over wounds. Additionally, the Yavapai gave their women a tea made from the leaves to calm their contractions after giving birth, and fumigated them with smoke from the leaves placed over hot coals. The Navajo sweep their tracks with boughs from the trees so death will not follow them.

A small quantity of ripe berries can be eaten as an emergency food or as a sage-like seasoning for meat. The dried berries can be roasted and ground into a coffee substitute.

Utah juniper is an aromatic plant. Essential oil extracted from the trunk and limb is prominent in α-pinene, δ-3-carene, and cis-thujopsene. Essential oil extracted from the leaf is prominent in camphor and bornyl acetate. The trunk of Utah juniper retains essential oil for at least 20 years after the tree dies, and is prominent in cedrol and cis-thujopsene.

title: Juniperus osteosperma


text:
Cocoa Expos

Cocoa Expos was an American soccer team, founded in 1993. The team was a member of the United Soccer Leagues Premier Development League (PDL), the fourth tier of the American Soccer Pyramid, until 2007, when the team left the league and the franchise was terminated.

The team played its home matches at the Cocoa Municipal Stadium in Cocoa, Florida, approximately 45 miles from Orlando. The team's colors were blue and white.

The team also had a sister organization, the Cocoa Expos Women, which played in the women's USL W-League, but also folded at the end of 2007.

Honors

 * USL PDL Southeast Division Champions 2005
 * USL PDL Southeast Division Champions 2003
 * USL PDL Southeast Division Champions 2001
 * USISL PDL National Championship Runner-up 1997
 * USISL PDL Southeast Division Champions 1997
 * USISL Premier League Eastern/Southern Division Champions 1996
 * USISL Premier League Eastern Division Champions 1995
 * USISL Premier League Southeast Division Champions 1994

Competition history
After joining the league in 1994, the Expos became one of the most successful and popular teams in the USL Premier Development League. In their first three seasons, from 1994 to 1997, the team lost only three regular season games and played in the Conference Championship game four times, in 1995, 1997, 2001, and 2004. During their 2001 preseason, the Expos played former the Major League Soccer franchise Tampa Bay Mutiny and lost only 1–0. In 2005, the Expos qualified for the Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup for the third time. However, their final season in 2007 proved disastrous, with the team losing 13 of 15 matches and scoring just one goal all season.

Coaches

 * 🏴 Chris Ramsey 1991–1992
 * 🏴 Alan Dicks 1994
 * Gerry Queen 2001–2006
 * 🇩🇪 Udo Schenatzky 2007

Stadia

 * Cocoa Municipal Stadium, Cocoa, Florida 2003–07

Average attendance

 * 2007: 197
 * 2006: 197
 * 2005: 209

title: Cocoa Expos


text:
Marian exiles

The Marian exiles were English Protestants who fled to continental Europe during the 1553–1558 reign of the Catholic monarchs Queen Mary I and King Philip. They settled chiefly in Protestant countries such as the Netherlands, Switzerland and Germany, and also in France, Italy and Poland.

Exile communities
According to English historian John Strype, more than 800 Protestants fled to the continent, mainly to the Low Countries, Germany, and Switzerland, and joined with Reformed Churches there or formed their own congregations. A few exiles went to Scotland, Denmark, and other Scandinavian countries.

Notable English exile communities were located in the cities of Aarau, Basel, Cologne, Duisburg, Emden, Frankfurt, Geneva, Padua, Strasbourg, Venice, Wesel, Worms, and Zürich. The exiles did not plan to remain on the continent any longer than was necessary; there was considerable controversy and anxiety among them and those who remained in England over the legitimacy of fleeing, rather than facing, religious persecution. This concern contributed to the attention and authority given to those who remained in England and were martyred, as in the writings of one of the most famous exiles, John Foxe.

During their continental sojourn, few of the exiles became well integrated economically or politically into their new communities. With the exception of the exile community in Aarau, the majority of exiles were clergy (67) or theological students (119). The next largest group was composed of gentry (166) who, with others back in England such as Sir Rowland Hill (who would be identified on the frontispiece as the publisher of the Geneva Bible), financed the exiles. This group included Elizabeth Berkeley (Countess of Ormond), Sir Peter Carew, William Cecil, Sir John Cheke, Sir Anthony Cooke, Sir Francis Knollys, Sir Richard Morrison, Dame Dorothy Stafford, and Sir Thomas Wroth. Of about 500 known English exiles, there were 40 merchants, 32 artisans, 7 printers, 3 lawyers, 3 physicians, 3 yeomen, 13 servants, and 19 men with no profession. Of the artisans 12–17 were weavers who settled in Aarau. Strype names London merchant and exile Thomas Heton (or Heyton, Eaton) as the host-general of all the exiles. Financial backers for the exiles included London merchants Richard Springham and John Abel. Support also came from the King of Denmark, the Prince Palatine of the Rhine, the Duke of Württemberg, the Duke of Bipont, and many continental leaders of the reformed movement: Heinrich Bullinger, Konrad Pelikan, Bibliander, Josias Simmler, Wolphius, and Ludwig Lavater.

The Marian exiles included many important or soon-to-be important English Protestant leaders. Former and future bishops among them included John Aylmer, Miles Coverdale, John Ponet, John Scory, Richard Cox, Edmund Grindal (future archbishop of York, then Canterbury), Edwin Sandys (future archbishop of York), John Bale, John Jewel, James Pilkington, and Thomas Bentham. The conflicts that broke out between the exiles over church organization, discipline, and forms of worship presaged the religious politics of the reign of Elizabeth I and the emergence of Puritanism and Presbyterianism.

Strasbourg
The English congregation in Strasbourg organised its services in conformity with the 1552 Book of Common Prayer. Its leaders and membership included at times the former and future bishops John Ponet, John Scory, Richard Cox, Edmund Grindal, Edwin Sandys, John Aylmer, and John Bale. Others there included Cheke, Morison, Cook, Carew, Wroth, James Haddon, John Huntington, John Geoffrey, John Pedder, Michael Renniger, Augustin Bradbridge, Thomas Steward, Humphrey Alcockson, Thomas Lakin, Thomas Crafton, Guido and Thomas Eton, Alexander Nowell, Arthur Saule, William Cole, Christopher Goodman, Richard Hilles, Richard Chambers, and one or both of the Hales brothers. Myles Coverdale apparently made several visits to the Strasbourg community.

Frankfurt
The first English exile group in Frankfurt arrived on 27 June 1554. With the help of a local magistrate, they secured the use of a vacant church building. They held their first service on 29 July using a reformed liturgy drawn up by William Whittingham. The congregation adopted a semi-Presbyterian system where deacons were expected to preach.

At the request of local authorities in this Lutheran city, the English church order had been made to conform to the newly established French reformed church in Frankfurt. The French church included a number of Walloon weavers who had been brought to England by Protector Somerset. Since then they had been under the supervision of Valerand Poullain, formerly John Calvin's successor as minister of the French congregation in Strasbourg. In England, Poullain's congregation had as much autonomy as the London Stranger churches and, like them, based their church order on the models of Zwingli and Calvin.

Following this continental reformed precedent, the English exiles in Frankfurt offered themselves as the model church for all the English in exile and put out a call for ministers from the other congregations. However, they had gone further than many of their countrymen would follow, particularly those in Strasbourg and Zürich who wanted to retain use of the second (1552) Edwardian Book of Common Prayer. For that reason the English Church at Frankfurt became preoccupied with disputes over the use of the prayer book and church order in general.

The chief members of the Frankfurt congregation during its existence were David Whitehead, Sandys, Nowell, Foxe, Bale, Horne, Whittingham, Knox, Aylmer, Bentham, Sampson, Roger Kelke, Chambers, Isaac, both Knollyses, John and Christopher Hales, Richard Hilles, Bartholomew Traheron, Robert Crowley, Thomas Cole, William Turner, Robert Wisdome. An informal university established by the congregation had Horne teaching Hebrew, John Mullins (who came from Zurich after Knox left) teaching Greek, and Traheron teaching theology. Thomas Beccon came from Strasbourg to Frankfurt; he taught at Marburg University around 1556–1559.

All records of the group were destroyed in World War II with the Frankfurt city archives, and only partial transcripts from prior scholarship remain. These records disclose that native Frankfurters distrusted the English and suspected they were being used by members of the nobility to diminish the privileges of the burghers. The English were also accused of unfair commercial practices and of competing with local artisans—accusations which led to detailed censuses of the immigrants.

Troubles at Frankfurt
The organizational and liturgical differences between the English churches in exile soon led to protracted conflicts concentrated in Frankfurt. A particular clash between Richard Cox and John Knox came in time to stand for the general struggle between the Church of England and Presbyterian views.

Geneva
Led mainly by Knox, the largest, most politically and theologically radical concentration of English exiles was at Geneva, reaching a peak of 233 people or about 140 households. (This was approximately 2% of the city's population.) Names, dates of arrival, and other information is preserved in the Livre des Anglais (facsimile edition by Alexander Ferrier Mitchell), a folio manuscript kept at the Hotel de Ville of Geneva. New members admitted to the church numbered 48 in 1555, 50 in 1556, 67 in 1557, ten in 1558, and two in 1559. Seven marriages, four baptisms, and 18 deaths are recorded.

This was the first English congregation to adopt the wholly Presbyterian form of discipline and worship that was resisted in Frankfurt. These forms and standards were printed in 1556 as the Book of Geneva which went through several editions after 1556 in Geneva and was in official use in the Church of Scotland from 1564 to 1645. Sometimes titled Book of Our Common Order, it is the basis for the modern Book of Common Order used by Presbyterian churches.

The English church in Geneva was also the scene of the Geneva Bible's production, which was to be the most popular English version of the era and the most notorious for its annotations that supported Reformed theology and resistance theory. At Geneva Knox wrote his infamous First Blast of the Trumpet Blowen Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women during the winter of 1557–58. Published in Geneva in the spring 1558, it denounced all female rulers in the most strident language. This was opposed by many other English exiles, especially those seeking favor with Elizabeth I, such as John Aylmer, who published a retort to Knox called Harborowe for Faithful and True Subjects in 1559. Christopher Goodman took a more circumspect approach in a How superior powers ought to be obeyd of their subjects & wherein they may lawfully by Gods Worde be disobeyed & resisted, for which Whittingham wrote the preface. Laurence Humphrey, working out of Strasbourg, claimed to be clarifying what Knox, Ponet, and Goodman really meant when he defended passive resistance only and supported the legitimacy of female rule in De religionis conservatione et reformatione vera (1559).

John Calvin proposed that the English exiles should hold their own services in the building where he delivered lectures, later known as the Calvin Auditory. This worship in English continues in the building to the present day, under the Church of Scotland.

Members of the English church in Geneva included Sir William Stafford, Sir John Burtwick, John Bodley and the eldest of his five sons (Laurence, Thomas, and Josias who was later knighted), James Pilkington, John Scory, Thomas Bentham, William Cole, William Kethe, Thomas Sampson, Anthony Gilby, John Pullein, Perceval Wiburne, and Robert Fills.

 * Ministers: Christopher Goodman (1555–1558), Anthony Gilby (1555), and John Knox (1556–1558)
 * Elders: William Williams (1555–1558), William Whittingham (1555–1556), Gilby (1556–1558), William Fuller (1556), Thomas Wood (1557), Miles Coverdale (1558), and John Bodley (1557–1558)
 * Deacons: John Staunton (1555–1556), Christopher Seburne (1555), Francis Withers (1556–1557), William Beauvoir (1556–1558), John Staunton (1556), John Pullein (1557), William Fuller (1557), Francis Willias (1558), Peter Willis (1558), and Whittingham (1558)

title: Marian exiles


text:
Kawésqar

The Kawésqar, also known as the Kaweskar, Alacaluf, Alacalufe or Halakwulup, are an indigenous people who live in Chilean Patagonia, specifically in the Brunswick Peninsula, and Wellington, Santa Inés, and Desolación islands northwest of the Strait of Magellan and south of the Gulf of Penas. Their traditional language is known as Kawésqar; it is endangered as few native speakers survive.

It has been proposed that the Caucahue people known from colonial-era records either are ancient Kawésqar or came to merge with the Kawésqar.

Etymology
The English and other Europeans initially adopted the name that the Yahgan (also known as Yámana), a competing indigenous tribe whom they met first in central and southern Tierra del Fuego, used for these people: "Alacaluf" or "Halakwulup" (meaning "mussel eater" in the Yahgan language). Their own name for themselves (autonym) is Kawésqar.

Economy
Like the Yahgan in southern Chile and Argentina, the Kawésqar used to be a nomadic seafaring people, called canoe-people by some anthropologists. They made canoes that were eight to nine meters long and one meter wide, which would hold a family and its dog. They continued this fishing, nomadic practice until the twentieth century, when they were moved into settlements on land. Because of their maritime culture, the Kawésqar have never farmed the land.

Population
The total population of the Kawésqar was estimated not to exceed 5,000. They ranged from the area between the Gulf of Penas (Golfo de Penas) to the north and the Brecknock Peninsula (Península de Brecknock) to the south. Like other indigenous peoples, they suffered high fatalities from endemic European infectious diseases. Their environment was disrupted as Europeans began to settle in the area in the late 1880s. A 2022 estimate puts the total population of the Kawésqar before the 19th- and early 20th-century collapse at 3,700 to 3,900. The Little Ice Age, lasting from the 17th to the 19th centuries, may also have had a negative impact on the Kawésqar population.

In the 1930s many remaining Kawésqar were relocated to Wellington Island, in the town of Villa Puerto Edén, to shield them from pressures from the majority culture. Later they moved further south, to Puerto Natales and Punta Arenas.

In the 21st century, few Kawésqar remain. The 2002 census found 2,622 people identifying as Kawésqar (defined as those who still practiced their native culture or spoke their native language). In 2006, only 15 full-blooded members remained, but numerous mestizo have Kawésqar ancestry. Lessons in the Kawésqar language are part of the local curriculum, but few native speakers remain to encourage daily use of their traditional language. In 2021, Kawésqar activist Margarita Vargas López was elected to represent the nation in the Chilean Constitutional Convention.

Tribes and languages
Adwipliin, Aksánas, Alacaluf, Cálen (Cálenches, Calenes), Caucahué, Enoo, Lecheyel, Taíjataf (Tayataf), Yequinahuere (Yequinahue, Yekinauer).

By 1884 Thomas Bridges, an Anglican missionary based in Ushuaia who had been proselytising and studying the indigenous peoples of Tierra del Fuego since the late 1860s, and his son Despard compiled a 1,200-word vocabulary for the Kawésqar language in the form of a manuscript. Through the late 19th and early 20th centuries, numerous missionaries and anthropologists moved among the indigenous peoples to record, study and, in the case of the missionaries, proselytise them.

Kawéskar in human zoos
In 1881, European anthropologists took eleven Kawéskar people from Patagonia to be exhibited in the Bois de Boulogne in Paris, and in the Berlin Zoological Garden. Only four survived to return to Chile. Early in 2010, the remains of five of the seven who died in Europe were repatriated from the University of Zurich, Switzerland, where they had been held for studies. Upon the return of the remains, Chilean president Michelle Bachelet formally apologized for the state having allowed these indigenous people to be taken out of the country to be exhibited and treated like animals.

title: Kawésqar


text:
Tibor Varga (violinist)

Tibor Varga (4 July 1921 – 4 September 2003) was a Hungarian violinist, conductor, and world renowned music teacher who developed pedagogic methods for teaching string music. He was a founding member of the string department in the Detmold music conservatory.

Early life
Varga was born in Győr, Hungary, in the same region that witnessed the birth of Joseph Joachim, Leopold Auer, Carl Flesch as well as of the famous conductor Hans Richter. Young Varga took his first lessons at the age of two and a half with his father Lajos Varga, who was also a violinist. Due to an injury during the War, Lajos Varga had to abandon his projects to be a concert artist and became a violin maker.

Studies
Coming to the attention of Jenő Hubay, Varga was enrolled at the Budapest Franz Liszt Academy when only ten years old. There, he studied with, among others, Zoltán Kodály and Leó Weiner. After Hubay's death (1937), Varga was chosen to be the soloist in the memorial concert, playing the 3rd Violin Concerto op. 99 by Hubay under the direction of Ernő Dohnányi, who in 1934 had become Hubay's successor as the Rector of the Liszt Academy. On completion of his musical studies at the Liszt Music Academy, Varga devoted himself throughout the war years to studying philosophy at the Budapest University.

Career
Varga was six years old when he made his first public appearance. At ten, he took on his first solo role with an orchestra, performing the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto op. 64. At the age of 13, he made his first recordings. At 14, he took on his first concert tours abroad, until his career had abruptly been interrupted by World War II. After the War he continued his concert activities, becoming one of the most prominent soloists. Varga collaborated with eminent conductors such as Ernest Ansermet, Leonard Bernstein, Pierre Boulez, Ferenc Fricsay, Wilhelm Furtwängler, Igor Markevitch, Hans Rosbaud, Georg Solti and others. He performed with the greatest orchestras such as the Philharmonia Orchestra London and the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra and recorded for labels such as Deutsche Grammophon and EMI. A recording of the Bartok Violin Concerto no. 2 with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra under Ferenc Fricsay as well as his versions of the Violin Concertos by Max Bruch, Mozart, Carl Nielsen, Paganini, Tchaikovsky etc. have become major references of musical interpretation.

Varga's classical repertory included the great Violin Concertos as well as the important Violin Sonatas and Concert Pieces. In addition, from the beginning of his career, Tibor Varga devoted himself to contemporary music, of which he became a pioneer. In particular, his interpretations (premières) and recordings of the Violin Concertos and other compositions by Béla Bartók, Alban Berg and Arnold Schönberg have raised these works to the status of "classics" of the repertoire and given them a prime position in international musical life. Among others, Varga played the Australian Première of Alban Berg's Violin Concerto and in 1949, the Violin Concerto by Arnold Schönberg. The composer himself paid tribute to his enthusiasm by a letter which has become famous: "I wished to be younger to write more music of this kind for you." (Schönberg, Letters). The Schönberg Violin Concerto, like the Violin Concertos by Berg, Shostakovich and other works, were also interpreted by Tibor Varga at the BBC Promenade Concerts in the London Royal Albert Hall. Furthermore, he gave the Austrian Première of the Violin Concerto by Strawinsky as well as the World Premières of numerous compositions partly also dedicated to him, such as the Violin Concertos by Boris Blacher, Ernst Krenek, Gösta Nyström, Almeida Prado, Matyas Seiber and Winfried Zillig.

From the beginning of the 1950s, Varga enjoyed equal success as a conductor. His conducting career led to the establishment, in 1954, of a chamber orchestra bearing his name (Kammerorchester Tibor Varga) at Detmold, Germany, as well as to that of the Tibor Varga Festival Orchestra (1964–2001) at Sion. He was chief conductor and artistic director of these ensembles as well as – from 1989 to 1993 – of the Orchestre des Pays de Savoie (France). In addition, Tibor Varga had regularly been invited as a guest conductor to orchestras of international renown.

Pedagogic activities
After World War II, Varga in his home town Győr was co-founder and first professor of a Music Academy associated to the Budapest Franz Liszt Academy. In 1947, he established himself in London. In 1949, he became professor at the newly founded Detmold High School of Music (Hochschule für Musik Detmold). Charged to establish the String Department, for which he was asked to become the Head, Varga, with cellist André Navarra and violists Bruno Giuranna and Nobuko Imai, created a string school of world renown. Since the 1950s, Varga has equally been jury member or president in the leading international Violin and Chamber Music Competitions. Regularly he also directed master classes at Darmstadt (Internationale Ferienkurse für Neue Musik), London, Paris, Salzburg (Mozarteum), Siena (Accademia Chigiana) and other musical centres in Europe and the US, giving furthermore public lectures on musical themes.

In 1956, Tibor Varga settled in Switzerland, though maintaining his position in Detmold. In 1963, at Sion, the capital of the Canton of Valais in Switzerland, he created an International Academy of Music (Académie de Musique Tibor Varga), specializing in interpretation (or "master") classes for accomplished young players conducted by leading soloists during the summer. In a typical year, the International Academy draws around 400 students to attend about 25 master classes. In 1964, he founded the Festival Tibor Varga (1964–2001), which during nearly four decades was one of the leading international music festivals with concerts broadcast all over the world. In addition, in 1967, he added the annual International Tibor Varga Violin Competition, one of the most prestigious competitions of its genre, including prize-winners like Jean-Jacques Kantorow, Nam Yun Kim, Mirijam Contzen and Vadim Repin.

In 1988, the High School of Music (Ecole Supérieure de Musique) exclusively dedicated to the training of professional string players was born at Sion, with the founder Varga responsible as both artistic and teaching director. Within one year of the founding of the school, a leading music educator proclaimed the Varga school as "one of the three best professional violin academies in Europe", with highly gifted students of all continents. In 2002, the École Supérieure de Musique became the Conservatoire Supérieur et Académie de Musique Tibor Varga. Today, it is part of the Lausanne High School of Music (HEMU Lausanne-Fribourg-Sion). In addition, Varga was an artistic and pedagogic adviser in the services of the ministries of culture in France and Portugal. Since October 2002, he held a chair for violin at the University of Music and Performing Arts, Graz (Universität für Musik und Darstellende Kunst, Graz, Austria).

Graduates of Varga's school are soloists, concertmasters, professors and members of leading orchestras all over the world, including the Berlin Philharmonic, Orchestra del Teatro alla Scala, Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, Staatskapelle Dresden, Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin, New Japan Philharmonic and others. Madeleine Carruzzo, Varga's student for many years, was the first female member to be admitted to the Berlin Philharmonic.

Distinctions
Varga was an honorary citizen of different towns in France and in Switzerland. France, Germany, Hungary and Switzerland have awarded him high honours, among others the National Prize for Culture (Switzerland), the Cross of Merit (Germany), the Cross of Merit (Hungary), the medals of the Arts et Lettres and of France's Legion of Honour. The Budapest University respectively the Budapest Franz Liszt Academy appointed him honorary professor, a rare distinction awarded, for example, to Edward Elgar, Emil Gilels, Richard Strauss and Arturo Toscanini. Varga's Etude-Caprice for 4 violins composed on the occasion of the European Rector's Conference in Graz, Cultural Capital of Europe, in 2003 has been designated after his death to be the official hymn of the European University Association.

Death
Varga died at his home in Grimisuat, near Sion, Switzerland, on 4 September 2003. With his first wife Judith, he had a son, Gilbert Varga, a noted conductor. His daughter Susan Rybicki-Varga is a cellist and teacher. His second wife Dr. Angelika Varga-Behrer is a musicologist and musician.

Additional Sources

 * J. Creighton, Discopaedia of the Violin, 1889–1971, Toronto 1974
 * S. Applebaum and H. Roth, The Way They Play, Book 10, Neptune/N.J. 1981
 * W. Kiley, Ventures abroad, in: The Strad, Febr. 1987
 * R. Noltensmeier, Geiger von Beruf, Kiel 1999
 * T. Potter, A Fiery Philosopher, in: The Strad, April 2000
 * N. Hornig, Spiegel des Lebens, in: FonoForum, Sept. 2001

title: Tibor Varga (violinist)


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Category:Streets and roads

This category contains articles about streets and roads around the world.

A street is a strip of land adjoining buildings in an urban context, where people may reside, assemble and interact. Streets are part of Urban planning. See Category:Streets.

A road is a strip of land connecting two or more destinations over which people and goods are transported. Roads are part of Road transport. See Category:Roads.

When a road passes through an urban area, it may also serve as a street. Both roads and streets are part of Civil engineering.

title: Category:Streets and roads


text:
User:Karalyn

Artists Paint for Peace is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization founded in 1993 by Lynda Karanikolas (owner of Studio One Arts) and Karalyn Shimmyo. The organization provides free murals to shelters, hospitals, high-needs and thereapeutic schools, and other facilities that cannot afford the costs of facility beautification. In addition, their Art Mentor program provides multi-disciplinary workshops taught by artists, writers, and musicians throughout the New York Metro area. Notable mural projects include the Pediatric Oncology/Hematology unit at Mount Sinai Hospital, Green Chimneys Children's Services, Camp Homeward Bound, (Coalition for the Homeless run summer camp for homeless children) and My Sister's Place Domestic Violence Shelters.

The organization is volunteer operated and provides free training and apprenticeship to it's volunteer base.

title: User:Karalyn


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Poland Township, Mahoning County, Ohio

Poland Township is one of the fourteen townships of Mahoning County, Ohio, United States. The 2020 census found 14,664 people in the township.

Geography
Located in the eastern part of the county along the Pennsylvania border, it borders the following townships:
 * Coitsville Township - north
 * Pulaski Township, Lawrence County, Pennsylvania - northeast
 * Mahoning Township, Lawrence County, Pennsylvania - east
 * North Beaver Township, Pennsylvania - southeast corner
 * Springfield Township - south
 * Boardman Township - west
 * Struthers - northwest

Three municipalities are located in Poland Township:
 * The village of Lowellville, in the east
 * Part of the village of Poland, in the west
 * Part of the city of Struthers, in the northwest

Name and history
It is the only Poland Township statewide. It was established in 1796.

Government
The township is governed by a three-member board of trustees, who are elected in November of odd-numbered years to a four-year term beginning on the following January 1. Two are elected in the year after the presidential election and one is elected in the year before it. There is also an elected township fiscal officer, who serves a four-year term beginning on April 1 of the year after the election, which is held in November of the year before the presidential election. Vacancies in the fiscal officership or on the board of trustees are filled by the remaining trustees.

title: Poland Township, Mahoning County, Ohio


text:
Bertine Zetlitz

Bertine Axeliane Robberstad Zetlitz (born 9 April 1975) is a Norwegian pop singer.

Career
Bertine Zetlitz began her musical journey at a young age, penning her first numbers aged just 12. After gaining a background in classical music, Zetlitz began to experiment. Her debut album Morbid Latenight Show was released in 1998 and spawned several successful singles. In 1999 she toured in USA with Lilith Fair. It was followed by the Tore Johansson produced Beautiful So Far in 2000. Her third album, Sweet Injections, was released in 2003, helmed by electronic experts Howie B, Magnus Fiennes and Richard X (Sugababes, Rachel Stevens). Lead single "Girl Like You" signalled a change of direction for the singer.

Her fourth album Rollerskating was released in late 2006. EMI describes the release as a "fascinating and unique blend of pulsing electro, classic Disco nouveaux, twisted pop melodies and good old fashioned catchy choruses. It's Bertine as you know and love her, but with a new even more addictive sting in her tail." Lead single "Fake Your Beauty" was a radio hit and reached the top spot in the Norwegian charts. Its follow-up "Ah-Ah" was remixed on release and was a sizeable hit. Zetlitz released her fifth album My Italian Greyhound in September 2006. She described the album as "like its namesake: elegant, humorous, fit and well scented - with a charming hint of neurosis."

Zetlitz gave birth to her first child in 2007 and temporarily retired from show-business to become a full-time mother. Later that year she released the greatest hits album In My Mind 1997–2007 the Best of Bertine Zetlitz, which featured two new songs. She released her sixth studio album Electric Feet on 16 March 2012. She collaborated with Norwegian singer Samsaya on the title track.

Personal life
Bertine Zetlitz is married with two children. She is a niece of Francis Sejersted and a descendant of Jens Zetlitz.

Singles

 * Charting in VG-lista

 * Other singles
 * 1997: "Getting Out"
 * 1997: "Snow on a Hot Day"
 * 1997: "Apples and Diamonds"
 * 1998: "Abigail"
 * 1998: "Fi Fy Fo Fum" (with Marte Krogh)
 * 2000: "Adore Me"
 * 2000: "Cruel"
 * 2001: "Fate"
 * 2003: "For Fun"
 * 2003: "Twisted Little Star"
 * 2006: "Islands in the Stream" (with Thom Hell)
 * 2006: "Midnight"
 * 2007: "Bubble Bursts"
 * 2012: "Electric Feet"
 * 2012: "Starlight"
 * 2015: "Sett at vi sier det sånn" (feat. Prepple Houmb)

Awards

 * Spellemannprisen (1998): 'Newcomer of the Year' and 'Pop Artist of the Year'
 * Hitawards (1998): 'Female Artist of the Year'
 * Hitawards (2000): 'Female Artist of the Year'
 * Spellemannprisen (2000): 'Pop Artist of the Year'
 * Spellemannprisen (2003): 'Female Pop Artist of the Year'

title: Bertine Zetlitz


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Talk:Dachau liberation reprisals

Request for Protection.
We all know that there are a lot of teenagers in particular, that like to vandalize articles that are against the Nazi regime. AstroSaturn (talk) 11:20, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That might be true but page protections are not added to articles pre-emptively, in advance of possible vandalism. If you wish to ask for page proteciton of some type, the best way to do that is to go to Requests for page protection and request it. However, this page has only been protected once - that was back in 2019 plus there hasn't been any recent vandalism so I doubt this article will get protected by admins. Shearonink (talk) 15:24, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Asking for consensus on recent edit
A recent edit added a new "part of" to the infobox - Dachau Uprising. Dachau Uprising is a new unassessed article and I think an editorial consensus should be established here on 1)whether or not Dachau liberation reprisals is part of the new topic/article Dachau Uprising. In my opinion I don't think this article is a sub-article to the other but maybe I'm wrong. Let's discuss things here so we can reach an editorial consensus. Shearonink (talk) 15:20, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

 * I was the one that added "part of" to the Infobox. I am pretty sure that both articles are related in terms of history. Sorry if I misunderstood something here. AstroSaturn (talk) 17:20, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dachau liberation reprisals