text:
Talk:School Reunion (Doctor Who)

Article name

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

don't move. — Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 06:44, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
I think it's the convention not to disambiguate unless necessary, or is there another "School Reunion" to avoid? Tim! (talk) 15:54, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * There isn't; I created the article originally without the disambig. I would think khaosworks put that in to avoid confusion for general 'pedia users looking for an entry about school reunions in general... Radagast 17:13, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * I can't help but think that if someone had wanted to write an article about school reunions as a whole, they would have done so by now. We must remember that School Reunion leads directly to the Doctor Who episode page (although it need not to). NP Chilla 21:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Votes

 * OPPOSE rename, turn School Reunion into a dab page instead, even if it has redlinks. (Quick search finds a few porn films with that title) 132.205.44.134 21:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose I like naming the Article School Reunion (Doctor Who) as it has (Doctor Who) in the article title, clearly referring the DW! School Reunion should be a disabiguation page or an article on School Reunions (even if it is a stub). Liyster 00:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment: I don't feel strongly about this move either way, but I do want to point out that Disambiguation says not to disambiguate if it isn't necessary. The only question should be whether a School Reunion article (disambig, stub, or whatever) is likely or useful, not an aesthetic preference for (Doctor Who) in the article's title.  In cases where there's no possible confusion, such as Shada or The Girl in the Fireplace, we don't disambiguate and we shouldn't. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:34, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose, for the reasons I've stated above. Although an actual School reunion article has not been written, my gut tells me that the likelihood that such an article will be created in future is quite high. This is just to save disambiguating later on. School Reunion is too generic a title, as opposed to the aforementioned Shada or The Girl in the Fireplace. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 04:53, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Support rename, why have a longer article name than necessary? The article about school reunions in general would be at the non-capitalised school reunion.--Keycard (talk) 06:40, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Kaboom?
The Sun is reporting that K-9 is destroyed at the end of the story. Two questions: --Jay (Histrion) 15:56, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Would a potential spoiler rumor be appropriate for this page?
 * 2) Since it's The Sun, should we care? :)
 * 3) Should we put pictures up from the trailer at the end of christmas invasion?

Well, The Sun was right about K-9 being there in the first place, and it's buzzing about OG at the moment, so we should add it, with the spoiler warning. Sean 21:56, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * in the future how bout you add a spoiler tag before giving away plot details on a talk page--172.144.204.183 01:50, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Krillitane
Can somebody wikilink the Krillitane bit to any info about them? JQF 18:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * It will probably added to List of Doctor Who monsters and aliens after the episode is broadcast. Tim! (talk) 19:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, what Tim said. Right now, though, we know so very little about them that there's not much point in adding them until we've got more info.  (We've got some likely-sounding speculation about their relationship to Anthony Head's character, but nothing concrete, really.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

"I...wanted to get school dinners in as part of an alien plot,"
I noticed, during the "Coming Soon" trailers, several prominent (and bizarre) posters, all of which read "Eat More Chips!", something which no normal school would ever say (especially after Jamie's School Dinners)! Could this be related to the RTD quote?  smurray  inch e  ster (User), (Talk) 20:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Good thinking, but Davies probably wouldn't have mentioned it if it was a major part of the plot, and furthermore, these alien teacher people might not have a perfect idea of human life (or more likely, they might have a better one than most adults), or it might be the traditional Hansel and Gretel story (although that would bring school dinners into it), but still, you certainly make a great point. ☺ -- The pathetic AP  clark   Be nice not nasty  20:32, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Hey, t'looks like I was a bit wrong - chips, brain power, wow.

 * Incidently, there's a very nice (if rather massive) "Eat More Chips" poster at http://www.deffryvaleschool.org.uk/images/chips-poster.jpg.  smurray  inch e  ster (User), (Talk) 21:30, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Jamie's School Dinners: the website for the school states "We didn't need a TV Chef to tell us what to do in our canteen". --Islomaniac 973 17:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Dark Season references
The trailers also reminded me quite a bit of Dark Season, RTD's first tv show (which scared the living daylights out of me at the time). Morwen - Talk 19:16, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Me too. If the stuff with the computers turns out in the episode to be as it seems in the trailers, it will definitely be worth a note. It's also got apparent similarities with the plot of the Demon Headmaster story The Prime Minister's Brain. —Wh o uk (talk) 19:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Website Active
The website deffryvaleschool.org.uk is now active, none of the others listed are. -- Grand Edgemaster Talk  18:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * DeffryVale.co.uk/index is working, but if you just leave it at .co.uk, it shows up as a holding page. Also, there are two websites linked from the Deffry Vale site and from the High School site to Cheapserve pages - one for the suspicious teacher Mr. Parsons, and one for somebody who's ostensibly a pupil at Deffry Vale High.  The Sarah Jane Smith site doesn't seem to exist; there's not even a holding page.

http://www.cheapserve.co.uk/members/09032/

http://www.cheapserve.co.uk/members/7974/

 * There is also a secret page, which just contains the Paradigm Stasis CGI, at http://www.cheapserve.co.uk/members/236801/ (a reference to 23 6 801). (There are also some unrelated pages, left over from when Cheapsave was a front for the infamous Jamie Kane game).  smurray  inch e  ster (User), (Talk) 20:44, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

faster than light answer
what was answer for going faster than light? I had difficulty getting the english there

 * "By a quantum tunnel with an FTL factor of 36.7 recurring." -UK-Logician-2006 20:31, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Dinnerladies?
That's a sitcom. I think the article should state 'cooks', as dinner ladies (two words, take note, Victoria Wood) are the ladies who supervise children during play time and lunch time. DavidFarmbrough 22:45, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Not in any school I went to. PeteVerdon 11:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I'll be redoing the plot once I see the actual episode, as usual. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:56, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Could I just say that you shouldn't really "redo" the plot, especially on a regular basis. People have worked hard to do it, and as you did with Tooth and Claw, you completely decimate what's been done before. Why not let other people have a go, and you just change individual sentences, like I do, for a change?--Keycard (talk) 08:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I retain as much of it as I can, and rewrite it for better flow. When recapping a story, these kinds of adjustments have to be made or it winds up a patchwork, unaesthetic piece of text, which reads badly and therefore fights with the reader for comprehension. Ultimately, what's important is the substance of it rather than the form — there is no property in my edits, or in anyone else's: you're free to add, correct, rewrite it as long as it improves the article or fits together. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 08:37, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

In the space of three edits. I rest my case.--Keycard (talk) 08:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * And you're saying that what I did wasn't an improvement over what was there before? I leave it for others to judge. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 08:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

From a casual reader's point of view, it is an improvement. From the contributors' points of view, it's not because it mutilates their hard work and effort. And I do know that you're allowed to. I simply say that it's slightly unfair.--Keycard (talk) 12:30, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I think it really puts people off contributing when their addition is changed. It often feels it is done for the sake of doing it.--RichardEast 12:54, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I understand that it may be difficult to see text you laboured over being sliced, diced and rearranged. But it's important to remember that once any of us adds text to a Wikipedia article, it is no longer "ours".  If you scroll down below the input window on any page when you're editing it, you'll see the text:
 * Please note: If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it.
 * When anything has multiple authors, as Wikipedia does, the style can quickly become wildly inconsistent, garbled or excessively wordy. Khaosworks is very good at maintaining a fairly concise "house style" on Wikipedia's Doctor Who articles, and I think most of us appreciate his work.  That doesn't mean that we don't appreciate the contributions of others — we do!  But you shouldn't take editing of your prose as an offence.  It's just the way that Wikipedia works.  Unless somebody takes on the (potentially unpopular) task of redacting articles, they'd eventually become unreadable.  Please assume good faith and don't take it personally.

 * Also, remember that if you think that any of Khaosworks' edits don't improve the prose, flow or style of an article, you can always edit them back. He's not the final authority on Doctor Who articles any more than you or I are.  He's just a valued member of the WikiProject, like many of us.  But nobody owns the article, and the important thing is consensus.  As long as we work things out civilly and don't edit war, I'm sure we can find solutions agreeable to everyone. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 02:18, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Absolutely. And I think it's worth reflecting on "From a casual reader's point of view, it is an improvement." Wikipedia exists for readers, not for editors. —Wh o uk (talk) 07:57, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Title of article violates Wikipedia guidelines
Time to re-open this disussion. From WP:DAB: "Disambiguation serves a single purpose: to let the reader choose among different pages that closely relate to various meanings of a particular term (some of which might logically utilize said term in a titular fashion). Please use them carefully and only when needed." (emphasis mine).

There is no point in specifying "Doctor Who" in the title as there are no other articles title "School Reunion." If and when those articles are written, that would be the time to disambiguate. Not now. -- MisterHand 04:42, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I quite agree, however the vote above almost unanimously said to keep it as is. God knows why!--Keycard (talk) 06:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * A three to one consensus (one of whom was an anonymous user) is not binding for all time. At the moment it is a bit silly because there is no article on school reunions. When one types School reunion one arrives here because of the redirect. Tim! 07:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * If you go to Red Dwarf (capitalised) you get an article on the sitcom. If you go to Red dwarf you get an article on the type of star, I believe.  Likewise, if we wanted an article on school reunions in general, we'd surely call it "School reunion", because it isn't a proper noun; this page can just be "School Reunion".

 * Here is another media entity by the same name.  Someone want to turn School Reunion into a dab page? Morwen - Talk 13:21, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I've created a dab at School reunion (disambiguation) (School Reunion now redirects there).  smurray  inch e  ster (User), (Talk) 13:34, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Dab pages aren't intended for situations when there's only one article. You folks need to sit down and read WP:DAB carefully and understand the guidelines. -- MisterHand 13:57, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I fixed it. School reunion is now the dab page, and it points back here and to Class reunion. I believe everything now fits the guidelines. Carry on. -- MisterHand 14:05, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

'Vanilla' DVDs
This expression has cropped up a couple of times in DW articles, but it isn't a standard expression and doesn't even feature in the 'vanilla' wiki entry. So can we stop using it? Its film-buff language. Damiancorrigan 21:03, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * It's the only short, catchy phrase I know of to refer to a DVD release that doesn't have any/many references. (Here, it distinguishes from the boxed set whole season release which does have extras/features, but takes a little longer to come out).  I quite like it as terminology - and don't  consider it particularly opaque.  Do you know a better term?  PaulHammond 21:01, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The term I'm more familiar with is "bare bones DVD". Google search for "Vanilla DVD" brings up 10,600 hits. Google search for "Bare bones DVD" brings up 24,500 hits. -- MisterHand 21:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Bare bones is better. I didn't know what vanilla meant (although I worked it out). Bare bones is more self-explanatory. Damiancorrigan 23:31, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Vanilla is wrong because the implication is that a chocolate DVD would be somehow greater rather than different. the value judgement is POV! How about 'plain' DVD or 'basic' DVD? DavidFarmbrough 16:02, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

The Last Time Lord
Another mention - can an addition be put on Time Wars.

As the Doctor is going back and forth through time, will he not on occasion temporally/temporarily be coexisting with other Time Lords (or Time Ladies)? Jackiespeel 21:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Impossible to add anything into the encyclopedia about this without venturing into original research territory. However, I would venture a guess that since these were Time Wars the time lords (save the doctor) have been wiped from space & time completely. -- MisterHand 22:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Something about this is mentioned in one of the new novels; I think it's 'Stone Rose'. It says that Time Lords have the ability to 'remember' things that have now been changed; a sort of 'meta-time' (my words). Usual caveat about novel canonicity applies. --DudeGalea 06:53, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The article on Time War (Doctor Who) ventures that any meeting with another Time Lord would potentially cause a paradox and summon the reapers.  smurray  inch e  ster (User), (Talk) 07:10, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I imagine that the intention is that the Time Lords have gone the way of the Cathedral of Chalesm in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. But any such speculation without source delves into NOR territory. --DudeGalea 07:49, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * It's likely along the lines of the the same explanation as Lance Parkin came up with in The Gallifrey Chronicles — that when Gallifrey is destroyed (as it was in The Ancestor Cell), an event horizon in relative time is created that prevents anyone from Gallifrey's past interacting with the future beyond its destruction and vice versa. But this is again, as mentioned, venturing into OR territory. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 10:15, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

There has to be some knowledge that there were other Time Lords for "a random person/alien" to know that there is only one left.

I was pointing out that there was the possibilitiy of an anomaly - and I am not a Dr Who buff. Jackiespeel 21:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't think the idea of the Time Lords' memories being different works here, as other people have remaked on his being the last of his race. It is simply an idea which hasn't been thought through by thr production team. DavidFarmbrough 12:05, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

We can deduce from this episode and S1 Dalek that Gallifrey's/Time Lords' end is prior to these two series/our present, but the Time Lords will appear from that planet's past at various points after the planet/their ending. Jack Harkness might just be more aware of his group - and as he meets Rose, who is not a Time Lord/Lady he may jump to conclusions.

I was pointing out a plot hole (for fanfic writers) rather than requesting original research (g).

Jackiespeel 22:46, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Tom Baker's face
I've removed the following from the Notes section:
 * In a few scenes when Sarah Jane is talking to the Doctor, they use -very- subtle photoshopping to transfer the impression of Tom Baker's face over the top of Tennant's. This is most obvious in the closing scene. But still hard to actually define - best to just watch the facial wrinkles if you want to see it.

We'll definitely need a source for this one. There's no mention of this in either the "Confidential" ep or the commentary. -- MisterHand 22:46, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I can't see this effect at all. --DudeGalea 14:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * To the person who added this note: what are your drugs called and where can I get some? Damiancorrigan 15:08, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I think whoever it was just can't accept that David Tennant is a good enough actor to be channeling Tom Baker (which I maintain he was, and intentionally so: there are moments where he's very Fourth Doctor-ish, in his stance, the way he spoke, and especially in the grinning). --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 16:42, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I reckon it was the guy off Dead Ringers playing them both at the same time. He's a clever bloke, you know. Damiancorrigan 19:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

If they had done this, they would have mentioned it in the commentary. IMO Tennant gives one of his best performances in this episode. DavidFarmbrough 11:59, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Torchwood
Appears to be the Bad Wolf of this series (appearing on a computer screen) - is someone doing an equivalent list. Is K-9 going to resurface? Jackiespeel 21:39, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * A list of torchwood references is being maintained here: Torchwood. -- MisterHand 21:55, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

It seems weird in the Christmas Invasion the Prime Minister wasn't even supposed to know about it, but in this episode the name pops up on the screen. Since Christmas Invasion and School Reunion has Torchwood become official? (UNIT would have been better.) --RichardEast 12:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

K-9 Mark III a Companion?
I don't think that K-9 Mark III was ever a companion of the Doctor. Unlike Mark I or Mark II, Mark III was never featured in any official Doctor Who story, with exception of "The Five Doctors" and the spin-off (pilot), K-9 and company. Therefore I think it would be appropriate to call him a companion of Sarah Jane Smith, which means that Mark III is not the fifth companion to die (BTW, I do count one story characters like Sara Kingdom and Grace Holloway as companions). What are everyone's thoughts? (Deej30 00:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC))
 * It depends on your definition of "companion", but I think you are probably right. You could stretch a point and say that he was a companion in this episode, or that because he referred to the Doctor as 'Master' this model must have interacted with the Doctor previously. It could be argued that K-9 Mark III travelled with the Doctor when he dropped him off in the crate at Sarah's Croydon residence. DavidFarmbrough 11:56, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that, as a general audience kind of thing, people don't really distinguish between K-9 Marks I, II or III, so when K-9 appears, "Oh, it's K-9 Mark III, he was never a companion," it's "K-9!!". That being said, the pedant in me agrees with Deej and will not object if the note is either modified severely or (more likely) removed. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 13:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Well I did say that I do accept one story companions, like Sara Kingdom and Grace, as official companions. I guest if you put K-9 Mark III in the context of being a companion of the Doctor for just this story, then I would say let the note stay. However, if the note is edited, then some reference would need to be made that K-9 Mark III travelled with the Doctor when he dropped him off in the crate at Sarah's Croydon residence (seeing that School Reunion now establishes this as a fact) and also include Mark III's reference of the Doctor as his "Master." I think it would be necessary to include these edits in order to to distinguish K-9 as a companion verses a regular guest star. (Deej30 12:02, 3 May 2006 (UTC))
 * I'm too young to have seen K9 before School Reunion, but it seemed that when he was rebuilt at the end he remembered Sarah, which means that at least some part of his hard drive was saved. I think K-9 is one companion, who may have a new body occasionally, but I don't think you can count him as multiple entities. Damiancorrigan 13:12, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Is K-9 regarded as being alive? If not, doesn't that make it hardware and therefore not actually a companion but a useful tool like the sonic screwdriver? Marky1981 14:10, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Johnny 5 is ALIVE, K-9 must be too. Damiancorrigan 14:28, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I think there is a lot of grounds to debate that Mark III and Mark IV are perhaps the same entity, meaning that Mark IV is a re-fit of MArk III. However, the same can not be sai of Mark I or Mark II. Mark I was created or acquired by Prof. Marinus (from 'The Invisible Enemy') long before he met the Doctor and he departed with Leela at the end of Invasion of Time. Mark II was assembled by the Fourth Doctor between the end of Invasion of Time and the beginning of The Ribos Operation and he left the series when Romana left the Doctor to remain in E-Space (another universe) at the end of 'Warrior's Gate.'

In short, I don't believe in the "one K-9 companion" theory. If Leela remained on Gallifery, and Mark I stayed with her, then he was probably destroyed in the Time War. Further, Mark II as far as we know is still in E-Space with Romana (according to the official televised stories and not recognizing the spin-off media accounts), because he was severally damaged and could only be repaired and function in E-Space. Moreover, at the beginning of Full Circle, the Doctor even tells Mark II "K-9 you can meet your twin" when he thought that they had returned to Gallifrey. There is too much evidence to suggest that Mark I and Mark II are not the same as Mark III or IV. The only way that this theory could be true is if all K-9's share the same consciousness and are connected some how in a manner like the "Borg Collective" (I apologize to anyone who might be offended by me using a Star Trek term in a Doctor Who disscussion board). However, there is no detailed evidence to support the Borg theory. (Deej30 12:02, 3 May 2006 (UTC))

Why did the Krillitane call off its attack?
I added a couple of details about the abortive Krillitane attack outside the cafe. In case anyone wonders why the details are there, the exact reason why the Krillitane doesn't attack them is never explained, but isn't hard to work out once you notice that the Doctor raises his hand against it, which is the same hand that was dipped in the Krillitane oil earlier. This conclusion is too speculative, in my view, for me to be comfortable putting it in a note, so I put in those details so people can work it out for themselves. I welcome alternative suggestions. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:47, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Sarah's apparent lack of ageing
Elisabeth Sladen was twenty-seven years old when she appeared in Pyramids of Mars in 1975. However she said she was "from 1980", which would suggest a date of birth for Sarah of around 1953, which in turn suggests that the Sarah who appears in School Reunion (which we assume takes place in 2006 until someone checks the car tax discs) appears to be only about fifty-three! Unless of course Sarah gives her age at any time during the third and fourth Doctors' eras, which I don't think she does. DavidFarmbrough 14:21, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Doesn't she have 1974 car tax discs in Planet of the Spiders, though? :) --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 14:47, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * This wouldn't contradict her being from 1980, if six years had passed between Spiders and Pyramids. DavidFarmbrough 16:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, the can of worms that opens... where precisely would the six-year gap take place, considering Robot follows Spiders and begins an arc that stretches all the way up to Zygons? Sarah hitches a ride with the Doctor at the end of that, and she complains about his promise to get her back to London five minutes before they left in Planet of Evil, so no gap there either. In Pyramids of Mars, where she says 1980 they're still trying to get back to UNIT. So unless they've spent six years trying to get back to UNIT between Planet of Evil and Pyramids... but then, why would Sarah say she's from 1980 since she left Earth in 1975, tops? I have my own preferred explanation, but that would require quite massive contortions. I leave this exercise to others to figure out an explanation that satisfies them personally. :) --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 16:50, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Sladen was born in '48, so I don't think there is much of a discrepancy. She looked pretty fine in my opinion! Damiancorrigan 15:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Slight tangent, but the series—if it's being self-consistent—must now be in 2007. It started in 2005 in synch with the 'real' world. Then there was a one-year gap (when Rose went 'missing'), so they were then in 2006. Christmas Invasion was, therefore, Christmas 2006 (i.e. the xmas we're going to have this year). So they're now in 2007. But I'm not sure how seriously they're taking this. :-) --DudeGalea 17:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Unless I am mistaken, it was never officially claimed that it was in sync with the real world. On the other hand, the presence of Routefinder buses (I forget in which episode they appeared - Christmas perhaps?) and not on the special heritage routes they still run on, means that it was set earlier than present day. Damiancorrigan 18:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

 * There was no confirmation in dialogue, but posters visible in Aliens of London say that Rose was last seen March 6, 2005. Routefinder buses are visible in "Rose", even though they had been taken out of service before then.  So, in the grand Doctor Who dating tradition, the evidence is equivocal. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

 * My personal opinion, FWIW, is that physical stuff (like the Routefinder bus thing) doesn't matter, because Who is firmly in a different reality from ours anyway. What's one more little difference? But an actual date in figures is definite. However, I think the makers should also feel free to let the history 'slide' a bit where they feel it's necessary. I seem to recall that the dating of the UNIT episodes in the 70s caused a great deal of debate, as they're not self-consistent. Dramatic license, and all that. --DudeGalea 20:05, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

 * What, the UNIT dating controversy? Merely a trifle. ;) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Not going to further the can of worms, but hopefully assist - any one able to go to Sarah Jane Chronicles and get the info when she goes to see herself as a bay - think its 1954? there are definitely dates mentioned etc.

Hopefully this helps Crescent (talk) 19:46, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

"Skasis" paradigm?
I thought that the equation was the "stasis paradigm" — the implication being that anyone who had mastered the equation would be able to put the cosmos into stasis and change whatever they wanted to. A bit like the ability of the Key to Time to "stop everything". What's the source for "Skasis"? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 22:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
 * It's off the BBC website, I believe. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 00:37, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, on the photos of the episode's making, there's one caption saying filming the Skasis Paradigm. See here.--Keycard (talk) 06:35, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * So it is. Thanks.  Ah, well.  I now know how my wife felt when she found out that the thing that controlled the Autons wasn't called the "Nesting Consciousness" — the mistake sounded so much cooler! —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 06:50, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

John Smith and the Common Men
There is a reference to this quote from An Unearthly Child in this story. The Doctor says he is called John Smith and someone (I think Anthony Head) says that that is a common name for an uncommon man. Can anyone who has watched it more times than I remember the quote and who said it please? DavidFarmbrough 06:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It was the conversation between the Doctor and Sarah. From memory: the Doctor introduces himself as John Smith - Sarah says she knew someone who went by the name. The Doctor shrugs it off by saying it's a common name and she replies that he was a very uncommon man. So, not quite the same, and I think it's probably just a coincidence. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 06:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I should also note here that "John Smith" was the alias the Doctor, in his third incarnation, used while he was restricted to Earth; at that time he worked as an advisor to UNIT. "John Smith" wasn't used in An Unearthly Child; the name of the owner of the junkyard wherein the TARDIS stood was I. M. Freeman. --Joe Sewell 17:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually no. The sign reads: I. M. Foreman. ZarhanFastfire (talk) 03:11, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's possible it was a coincidence but with the school setting and the use of the words "uncommon man", I think it was intentional. Yes I did realise that Jon Pertwee's Doctor used that alias. Troughton's did too! The An Unearthly Child reference is that Ian and Susan talk about a group called John Smith And The Common Men. DavidFarmbrough 12:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Skasas Paradigm - spelling
According to Aliens and Enemies, the phrase is actually spelt as above, and not as it was on the official website (and subtitles, possibly - I don't know). Which should be featured on the page?--Keycard (talk) 18:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Did my Father do the wiring in that school?
Why were all the Computers wired into the same Electrical Plug? Did my Father do the wiring as he used to do stupid things like Wiring all the electrical in his living room into the same socket!

Because of the Krillitanes' MAGIC PLUG ABILITIES.

Sarah Jane Smith and K9 added to list of companions in summary box?
I recently added Elizabeth Sladen as Sarah Jane Smith and K9 to the companions list in the summary box, only for it to be removed. What do we think? Should they be included as companions? Personally I think that if they are not included, Mickey Smith should not be either, as although he featured prominently in this episode, he was not made an official companion until the end of the episode, and then travelled with the Doctor and Rose for the first time in the following episode, 'The Girl In The Fireplace'. Catalina 123 22:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

 * As the "remover" (grin), I based the change in part on the first paragraph, which only describes Mickey as becoming a companion. I've also never seen any reference to SJS as a companion in the context of the new series. Thoughts? --Ckatz chat spy  22:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Perhaps it is best to leave it as it is, then. I also have my doubts as to whether or not Adam can be considered a companion for the 2005 episode 'Dalek'. Catalina 123 23:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I also have removed them a time or two. They simply aren't companions as they do not travel with the Doctor in the TARDIS at the beginning or the end of the episode. It should be noted that K9 Mk III is never seen traveling in the TARDIS at anytime. The box that he is delivered to Sarah in at the start of "K9 and Company" has a note from the Doctor on it but, as we don't see him drop the box off, it could have actually been delivered by someone else. The sticky situation of "is someone a companion during the entire time if the story that they are introduced in or only at the end of it when they leave in the TARDIS with the Dr?" comes up time and again. Steven, Polly, Ben, Jamie and so on up to Adam and Mickey don't actually become companions until the end of their stories but I can understand those that feel that they should be counted since they are a major part of some or all of the episodes of the stories that they are introduced in. Dodo on the other hand is only in the last couple of minutes of The Massacre... and its hard to justify saying that she is a companion in that story. In conclusion I would agree both of the editors Ckatz and Catalina123 that Sarah should not be included as a companion (in the same way that Harry isn't a companion in The Android Invasion) in this story. MarnetteD | Talk 00:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

It is also debatable, I think, whether or not Captain Jack Harkness can be considered a companion for "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances". Whilst he plays a significant role, he doesn't actually join the TARDIS crew until the very end of "The Doctor Dances". Catalina 123 12:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Sarah Jane should be added to be a companion, since it is the same continuity and she was a companion, so she still is, regadless if she enters the TARDIS or not. As for Mickey Smith, he escaped the lair of the Nestene Conciousness by TARDIS travel in 'Rose', so is he a companion in this episode? Answer is no, because the Doctor doesn't see him as a companion. Neither other guests companions, like the family the doctor rescues in 'Fires of Pompeij'. Mickey was offered companionship in the end of 'World War III', he refuses then. But this clearly states that he is a companion from this point on, accepted by the Doctor. So, not traveling in the TARDIS should not be a reason to exclude SJS or K-9 since the Doctor sees them as companions (besindes, K-9 was most likely not manufactured in our time, so TARDIS-travel is the most likly scenario for him coming into SJS's posession, but that's just a site note).Heinrich k (talk) 14:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Companions are those that are invited by the Doctor to travel in the TARDIS, so incidental trips don't count (like Jackie in "Army of Ghosts"). Sarah Jane left the TRADIS a long time ago, so she is no longer a companion here. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 19:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Indeed, she specifically choses to not be a companion again at the end of the episode. MarnetteD | Talk 20:35, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Good article nomination on hold
This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of February 13, 2008, compares against the six good article criteria:

 * 1. Well written?: Lead section require work per WP:Lead. References are required in the lead section as well as a less ambigous plot summary
 * 2. Factually accurate?: Pass
 * 3. Broad in coverage?: Pass
 * 4. Neutral point of view?: Pass
 * 5. Article stability? Pass
 * 6. Images?: Image required fair use rationale but completed by reviwer.

If these changes are made in the next seven days article should be able to be promoted.

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be reviewed again. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work so far. Million_Moments (talk) 19:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've done some work on the lead section, but haven't put any references in as it's referenced in the article below (which is what it says in WP:LEAD). Will (talk) 20:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Good work on the lead section. I've added a reference for the original airdate as this information is not repeated and does need verifying and will now promote article. Million_Moments (talk) 22:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Successful good article nomination
I am glad to report that this article nomination for good article status has been promoted. This is how the article, as of February 13, 2008, compares against the six good article criteria:

 * 1. Well written?: Yes, appropriate length plot summary, good lead summary.
 * 2. Factually accurate?: Pass
 * 3. Broad in coverage?: Pass, outlines plot, production and reception
 * 4. Neutral point of view?: Pass
 * 5. Article stability? Pass
 * 6. Images?: Appropriate image to illustrate article

Good article. Further work could include expansion of the production section of the article should more material be availible to do so. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to Good article reassessment. Thank you to all of the editors who worked hard to bring it to this status, and congratulations. — Million_Moments (talk) 22:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Removal of part of continuity section
I added a bit in the continuity section about the Doctor's comment about having regenerated 6 times since he last met Sarah instead of 5, and the Doctor mentioning that human's weren't allowed on Gallifrey possibly being related to Romana wanting non-Gallifreyans to be allowed to enter the Academy in the Gallifrey audio series. It was removed with this comment: "speculative fancruft - this is great for blogs or fan pages but not an encyclopedia also remember that books and radio plays are not canonical for all".

How was that any more crufty than quite a lot of information on Doctor Who-related articles? It's an observation on an error or oversight in continuity. The Gallifrey reference may have been a bit speculative but why remove the mention of the contradiction in continuity?--Codenamecuckoo (talk) 21:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Fourth-1-Fifth-2-Sixth-3-Seventh-4-Eighth-5-Ninth-6-Tenth. Half a dozen times. DonQuixote (talk) 21:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes there is a lot of other fancruft that needs removing, but, that is not a reason to put more in. The whole edit also has problems of being Original Research because it is your "observation" tieing together all of these desparate elements. Other fans might take all of these and come up with a different conclusion. The books and audio plays are not considered canonical by a number of fans and the MoS for the Doctor Who wikiproject mentions this. Please be aware that there is a Doctor Who wiki that is linked at the bottom of each article where this kind of speculation can be posted without having to live up to the standards of an encyclopedia. MarnetteD | Talk 21:29, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Sarah met the Fifth Doctor in The Five Doctors. Five regenerations. Five times.--Codenamecuckoo (talk) 14:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, I've admitted that the Gallifrey link was stretching it a bit, but the one about the number of regenerations is more valid.--Codenamecuckoo (talk) 14:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

 * She didn't know it was the Fifth Doctor. — Edokter  •  Talk  • 16:58, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Mickey as Companion/Star
For this episode and his subsequent 3 appearances, Mickey is listed in the infoxes as "Companion" (which I agree with). However, this subsection is under the main section of "Starring", which Noel Clarke does not do for any of his appearances. I would remove him from that section, but I don't know how to have him as both a Companion and as a guest star. Any thoughts? Ophois (talk) 19:46, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Infobox has been changed to "Cast". — Edokter  •  Talk  • 11:39, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Thanks! Ophois (talk) 15:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Sarah Jane Smith as companion
Seeing as Rose is credited as a companion in "Turn Left" without fulfilling the role as a companion, and since Sarah Jane is credited as a companion in "The Stolen Earth" and "Journey's End" also without fulfilling the role of companion, shouldn't she be labelled as a companion in this episode? Ophois (talk) 17:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Continuity/ Editing issues
I'm just wondering if I was the only one who noticed that around the 36:20 minute mark, when all the kids are being released from the computers, there's a shot where they're all wearing headphones, and then a cut, then the next shot, they're all without headphones (and starting to move away from the desks). Now I know they've been made much smarter by the oil, but am wondering whether that adequately explains mass headphone removal? DebF —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.156.155 (talk) 18:35, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Sarah Jane and K9
So, I bought the book “Doctor Who: The Essential Guide - Twelfth Doctor Edition”, on page 167 where it lists some of the Tenth Doctor companions it explicitly states that both Sarah Jane and K9 are companions in this story. Can we reach a consensus please?--82.132.246.251 (talk) 23:26, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:School Reunion (Doctor Who)


text:
Talk:Ethan Allen Brown

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July 4, 1776
How curious that Ethan Allen Brown was born on July 4, 1776, the date that is also considered the Nation's birthday, the date that Second Continental Congress unanimously adopted the Declaration of Independence. See Independence Day (United States) MaynardClark (talk) 03:01, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Ethan Allen Brown


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keertan Adyanthaya

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete +3/-0 =Nichalp   «Talk»=  11:32, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Keertan Adyanthaya
This person appears to be the VP of marketing in an Indian television channel. The page was created by the same IP address as Adyanthaya. Delete as nn. Martg76 15:55, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. Alf 20:20, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - vanity/advert - Tεx  τ  urε  16:38, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


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Idoma people

The Idomas are people that primarily inhabit the lower western areas of Benue State, Nigeria, and some of them can be found in Taraba State, Cross Rivers State, Enugu State, Kogi State and Nasarawa State in Nigeria. The Idoma language is classified in the Akweya subgroup of the Idomoid languages of the Volta–Niger family, which include Igede, Alago, Agatu, Etulo, Ete, Akweya (Akpa) and Yala languages of Benue, Nasarawa, Kogi, Enugu, and Northern Cross River states. The Akweya subgroup is closely related to the Yatye-Akpa sub-group. The bulk of the territory is inland, south of river Benue, some seventy-two kilometres east of its confluence with River Niger. The Idoma tribe are known to be 'warriors' and 'hunters' of class, but hospitable and peace-loving. The greater part of Idoma land remained largely unknown to the West until the 1920s, leaving much of the colourful traditional culture of the Idoma intact. The population of the Idomas is estimated to be about 3.5 million. The Idoma people have a traditional ruler called the Och'Idoma who is the head of the Idoma Area Traditional Council. This was introduced by the British. Each community has its own traditional chief such as the former Ad'Ogbadibo of Orokam, Late Chief D.E Enenche. The Palace of the Och'Idoma is located at Otukpo, Benue State. The present Och'Idoma, HRM, Elaigwu Odogbo John, the 5th Och'Idoma of the Idoma People was installed on the 30th of June, 2022 following the passing of his Predecessor HRH Agabaidu Elias Ikoyi Obekpa who ruled from 1996 to October 2021. Past Och'Idomas also include: HRH, Agabaidu Edwin Ogbu, who reigned from 1996 to 1997, HRH, Abraham Ajene Okpabi of Igede descent who ruled from 1960 to 1995 and HRH, Agabaidu Ogiri Oko whose reign took place between 1948 and 1959.

Traditional history of Idoma people
Origin:

The history of the Idoma people precedes the history of Benue State (created 1976) and the history of the Republic of Nigeria (created 1960). Oral tradition and dance is the primary method through which history has been passed in Idomaland and is considered a central cultural institution. From a young age, Idoma children usually learn from their elder's stories of old and were brought up around extended families, which make multiple historical resources available. When prompted Idomas generally will proudly tell you where they are from, and it's not uncommon for Idoma to be able to recite at least four generations of their progenitors. Historically, being unable to answer the emblematic question “Who is your father?” disqualified one from important roles and titles in Idomaland. Quite naturally, a number of villages trace origins to single ancestors and further, several Idoma groups trace their heritage to one common ancestor, considered the “father” of the different groups. According to traditional history, Iduh, the father of the Idoma had several children who each established different areas. Hence the expression: “Iduh the father of Idoma.” “Iduh the father of Idoma Iduh who begot all the Idoma He also begot the following children: Ananawoogeno who begot the children of Igwumale; Olinaogwu who begot the people of Ugboju; Idum who begot the people of Adoka; Agabi who begot the people of Otukpo; Eje who begot the people of Oglewu; Ebeibi who begot the people of Umogidi in Adoka, Edeh who begot the people of Edumoga and Ode who begot the people of Yala ” While there may be some truth to the above, the Idoma cannot be said to have a unitary origin. Many Idoma groups and village subsets have their own histories complete with stories about how their people arrived at their current location. The Otukpa people descended from three ancestors: Owuno, Ameh-Ochagbaha and Oodo. The first two were brothers who migrated from Idah in Igalaland while Oodo migrated from Igbo land. As one can imagine, the ever-changing movement of people through time makes it difficult to study Idoma history. There are some Idomas who are originally Igbos and heavily intermarried with the Northern fringes of Igboland.

Scholarly history
Scholars have combined oral history with genealogical data and analysis of kinship totems to trace the roots of the Idoma people as a whole. One notable Idoma scholar E.O. Erim cites genealogical data, collected from most modern groups in Idoma suggesting that they derive from several ethnic groups, each with a different historical origin. Furthermore, the available genealogies indicate the existence of diverse ethnic groups who descended from ancestors other than Idu. In several of these cases, the claim of common descent is backed by both extensive genealogical connections and possession of common kinship totems. Erim contends that while Idu was certainly a migration leader—he was not the “father” of the Idoma in the sense implied in the above traditions. These two considerations make it difficult to simply accept the view that every group in Idomaland is descended from Idu.

Many Idoma kindred claims an ancestral homeland called Apa, north-east of present-day Idomaland due to pressures of Northern invaders as recently as 300 years ago. The historical Apa was part of the ancient Kwararafa Kingdom (Okolofa Kingdom), a confederacy of several peoples. Informants in other ethnic groups have corroborated the existence of this kingdom, chiefly the Jukun who also believe they once ruled a confederacy called Kwararafa. In the Hausa book Kano Chronicle it is mentioned that Zaria, under Queen Amina conquered all towns as far as Kwarafara in the 15th century. At present, there is a Local Government Area in Benue State called Apa and is said to be the home of those who made the first migration from the historical kingdom. For many Idoma nationalists today, the name Apa elicits sentiments of past glory, and some in the political sphere have gone as far as suggesting it should become the name of a new Idoma state.

Other scholars point to historical and linguistic evidence that suggests that Idoma have ties with the Igala people to the west, concluding that the two nations came from a common ancestor. Angulu(1981) note that Igala and Igbo have important historical, ancestral and cultural relationships. Eri is said to be the original legendary cultural head of the Umu-eri, a subgroup of the Igbo people. Eri migrated from the Igala area and established a community in the middle of Anambra river valley (at Eri-aka) in Aguleri where he married two wives. The first wife, Nneamakụ, bore him five children. The first was Agulu, the founder of Aguleri (The ancestral head of Eri Kingdom clans) (the Ezeora dynasty that has produced 34 kings till date in Enugwu Aguleri), the second was Menri, the founder of Umunri / Kingdom of Nri, followed by Onugu, the founder of Igbariam and Ogbodulu, the founder of Amanuke. The fifth one was a daughter called Iguedo, who is said to have borne the founders of Nteje, and Awkuzu, Ogbunike, Umuleri, Nando and Ogboli in Onitsha. As one of the children of Eri, Menri migrated from Aguleri, which was and still is, the ancestral temple of the entire Umu-Eri (Umu-Eri and Umu-Nri). His second wife Oboli begot Ọnọja, the only son who founded the Igala Kingdom in Kogi State. Among this group, there are those who believe both ethnic groups fled the same kingdom at some point in history. Many traditional Idoma spiritual chants and “secret” tongues spoken during traditional ceremonies are actually Igala dialects and there are some Idoma themselves who assert their Igala ancestry. There are yet other Idoma groups notably in the southern regions, which claim their ancestors arrived at their present location from the Northern fringes of Igboland as a result of land disputes. Scholars believe these people had most likely fled Apa too, settled and resettled.

As suggested, a number of factors make it difficult to study Idoma historical origins of the Idoma people as a whole. In any event, it could be said that despite their heterogeneous origins, trading, marriage, language and other interactions among the Idoma have cultivated traditions and shaped a rich cultural identity distinctly their own.

Outside of Benue
The popular idea is that the Idoma are an ethnolinguistic group primarily found in the western areas of Benue State, Nigeria. This is because they are the second largest group in the state and occupy 9 local government areas (L.G.A.’s) which are: Ado, Agatu, Apa, Obi, Ohimini, Ogbadibo, Oju, Okpokwu and Otukpo. Aside from the western parts of Benue, this tribe have settlements in other parts of the country, including Taraba, Nassarawa, Kogi, Enugu and the Cross River States. The men are obliged by tradition to pound yam for their wives, Unlike other cultures where the woman is expected to perform all culinary chores, the Idoma men are not always exempted.

Traditional colours

The traditional colours of the Idoma people are red and black stripes. This has only been around since the 1980s to foster a distinct Idoma identity.

Traditional dance
The most famous traditional dance of the Idoma people is known as Ogirinya dance. It is a highly energetic dance that requires jumping (at regular intervals) on the toes in short period of time, and it also requires twisting of the body at every interval. A video of the Ogirinya dance can be viewed on YouTube. Dancers putting on the Idoma attire (traditional colours) can be seen in both links.

Traditional food (Okoho soup)
The Idoma people are known for their love of food, as there is an annual food festival in Benue State to celebrate women and the various traditional cuisines. Most popular among their delicacies is the Okoho soup which is made with the peculiar Okoho plant, bush meat and many other ingredients.

Traditional religion
With the advent of Christianity, Islam, and other foreign religions, the traditional belief systems of most ethnic groups in the country has been influenced by western practices. However, a majority of the Idoma people still believe strongly in the Alekwu, which is seen as the ancestral spirits – a link between the living and the dead. They host an annual "Aje Alekwu" festival where traditional religious practitioners commune and make sacrifices in the worship of their ancestors across the land.

The Idomas have a strong attachment to the Alekwu-spirit of the ancestors which is believed to stand as an invisible watchdog of the family and communities while checkmating vices like adultery, theft and murder.

Marriage
While the marriage rites and customs of the Idoma people is not unlike that of the Igbos and some other south-eastern cultures, there are specific aspects that clearly distinguish their tradition. In some Idoma subcultures, the groom and his family have to present the bride with a rooster and some money on the marriage day after the bride price has already been paid. If she accepts, it is a sign of approval and disinterest if she rejects the gift. While there are no certain reasons to justify the need for a rooster, it remains an interesting part of the ceremony.

Notable Idoma people

 * 2baba Innocent Idibia, musician
 * Lawrence Onoja, former military governor of Plateau State and Katsina State, Nigeria and Principal Staff Officer
 * Jerry Agada, former State Minister of Education, author and essayist
 * David Mark, former Nigerian Senate President
 * Monday Riku Morgan, Air Vice Marshal, former Chief of Defense Intelligence
 * Abba Moro, former Benue state Algon Chairman, former Minister of Interior, Senator, educationist
 * Moses Ochonu, author, historian
 * Audu Ogbeh, former Minister of Communications, former National Chairman of PDP, former Minister of Agriculture & Rural Development
 * Terry G, Nigerian musician
 * Sharon Ooja, Nollywood actress
 * Susan Peters, Nollywood actress,
 * Daniel Amokachi, former Super Eagle player
 * Monica Ogah, Nigerian Singer and winner, MTN Project Fame, Season 4
 * Ada Ameh, Nigerian actress
 * Dr. Paul Enenche https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunamis_International_Gospel_Centre

title: Idoma people


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Portal:Trains/Featured picture candidates/WHR Garratt in the countryside.jpg

Welsh Highland Railway garratt
One I found at flickr. Dunc|☺ 15:56, 24 August 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:William Hayden English

Now a FA in Chinese Wikipedia
I have translated this article to Chinese Wikipedia here and promoted to FA status, and I want to thank User:Coemgenus for his effort to write this amazing article. --Jarodalien (talk) 13:50, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:William Hayden English


text:
User:Dana.powers

I'm new to Wikipedia, so this will be a simple stub for a bit. I'm a second year law student at Stanford University, and a graduate of Vanderbilt University with a Bachelor's degree in Computer Engineering. My initial plans here are to join the Wikipedia Law project and make this user page a bit more interesting and/or informative.

title: User:Dana.powers


text:
Juniperus drupacea

Juniperus drupacea, the Syrian juniper, is a species of juniper native to the eastern Mediterranean region from southern Greece (mount Parnon in the Peloponnese), southern Turkey, western Syria, and Lebanon, growing on rocky sites from 800–1700 m in altitude. The species is the sole member of Juniperus sect. Caryocedrus., which is sometimes recognised as genus Arceuthos.

Description
Juniperus drupacea is the tallest species of juniper, forming a conical tree 10–25 m tall, exceptionally up to 40 m, and with a trunk up to 1–2 m thick. It has needle-like leaves in whorls of three; the leaves are green, 5–25 mm long and 2–3 mm broad, with a double white stomatal band (split by a green midrib) on the inner surface. It is usually dioecious, with separate male and female plants.

The seed cones are the largest of any juniper, berry-like but hard and dry, green ripening in about 25 months to dark purple-brown with a pale blue waxy coating; they are ovoid to spherical, 20–27 mm long and 20–25 mm diameter, and have six or nine fused scales in 2–3 whorls, each scale with a slightly raised apex. The three apical scales each bear a single seed, but with the three seeds fused together into a single nut-like shell. The male cones are produced in clusters (unlike any other juniper) of 5–20 cones together, yellow, 3–4 mm long, and fall soon after shedding their pollen in early spring.

Taxonomy
Because of its distinct cones with the seeds fused three together and the clustered male cones, it has sometimes been treated in a distinct genus of its own as Arceuthos drupacea (Labill.) Antoine & Kotschy, but genetic studies have shown it is fairly closely related to J. macrocarpa and J. oxycedrus.

title: Juniperus drupacea


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Alexandre Martin

Alexandre Martin (27 April 1815 – 28 May 1895), nicknamed Albert l'Ouvrier ("Albert the Worker"), was a French socialist statesman of the French Second Republic. He was the first member of the industrial working class to be in French government.

Early life
Albert was born in Bury, in the Oise département to a peasant family. As a young man he moved to Paris, where he served as an apprentice in his uncle's machine shop; later, he worked as a machinist in a button factory.

He participated in the July Revolution of 1830. Throughout his public life, he was known simply as "Albert the Worker," and was closely associated with the socialist Louis Blanc. He was a member of a variety of secret revolutionary societies in the 1830s and 1840s. He was made leader of the revolutionary Nouvelles Saisons society in 1839, and editor of the l'Atelier the following year.

1848
He fought on the barricades in the revolution of 1848, and was a member of the socialist government that formed at the Hôtel de Ville. When the socialists were included into the provisional government, Louis Blanc made Albert – by this time a popular figure among the workers – a secretary. He was sent to the Luxembourg Commission – the provisional government's labor commission – as Louis Blanc's vice-president, a position he held until the 15 May riots.

Albert and Blanc were two of the six members of the Luxembourg Commission to be elected in the April elections. The socialists – who, through the Luxembourg Commission ran a virtual state-within-a-state – clashed with the Assembly. Blanc's proposal for a fully fledged ministry of labor in keeping with his ideal for "national workshops" was rejected on 10 May. By this time, Albert had lost faith in the provisional government, and, together with Louis Auguste Blanqui and Armand Barbès, attempted an insurrection of his own. On 15 May, they led a crowd, demonstrating against the government; the riot was bloodily suppressed by the bourgeois National Guards, and Albert and Barbès were captured at the Hôtel de Ville.

Trial, prison, and later life
Albert did not defend himself at the subsequent trial at Bourges, in 1849. He was thus found guilty of treason and an attempt to incite revolution, and sent to prison on Belle Île for four years. When he became ill in 1854, he was transferred to Tours, where he remained until he was released by the general amnesty of 16 August 1859. He returned to Paris as a working man, taking a job for the gas company. In 1870, during the Franco-Prussian War, became a member of the Commission des Barricades in the Government of National Defense, and stood for election twice in the Third Republic – but lost both attempts.

He retired to Mello in his home département of Oise. Upon his death in 1895, he was given a national funeral, and his tombstone was given by the government.

title: Alexandre Martin


text:
History of Seoul

The history of Seoul can be traced back as far as 18 BC, although humans have occupied the area now known as Seoul since the Paleolithic Age. It has been the capital of numerous kingdoms on the Korean Peninsula since it was established.

Prehistoric
It is believed that humans were living in the area that is now Seoul along the lower reaches of the Han River during the Paleolithic Age and archaeological research shows that people began to lead settled lives starting in the Neolithic Age. Prehistoric remains that are unearthed in the Amsa-dong Prehistoric Settlement Site, located in Gangdong District, date back to about 3,000 to 7,000 years ago. With the introduction of bronze ware from about 700 BC, settlements gradually began to spread from the river basin toward inland areas.

Three Kingdoms and Unified Silla period
In 18 BC, the kingdom of Baekje founded its capital city, Wiryeseong, which is believed to be inside modern-day Seoul. Baekje subsequently developed from a member state of the Mahan confederacy into one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea. There are several city wall remains in the Seoul area dating from this time. Among them, Pungnap Toseong, an earthen wall in the southeastern part of modern-day Seoul (in Pungnap-dong, just near Jamsil-dong area), is widely believed to be the main Wiryeseong site. Yet another earthen wall, Mongchon Toseong, located nearby, is also dated from the early Baekje era.

All of these sites are in the south of the Han River, and do not belong to the historic Seoul district (centered in modern-day Jongno District), which is well in the north of the river.

In 554, Baekje and Gaya attempted to retake the region, but the Silla army led by Sin Province Lord (신주군주; 新州軍主) Kim Mu-ryeok (김무력; 金武力) defeated the combined force and killed the Seong of Baekje.

Silla soon gained full control of the city and then the peninsula, and during the Unified Silla period, Hanyang (한양; 漢陽) first referred to a district in the city, and later the city itself.

Goryeo period
It was thought that the kingdom that controlled the Han River valley would also have strategic control of the whole peninsula, because it was a center of transportation.

In 1104, King Sukjong of the Goryeo Dynasty built a palace near present-day Gyeongbokgung, which was then referred to as Namgyeong (남경; 南京) or "Southern Capital". Seoul grew into a full-scale city with political significance during this time.

Joseon period

At the beginning of the Joseon Dynasty in 1394, the capital was moved to Seoul, also known as Hanyang and later as Hanseong (한성, 漢城 Fortress city [on] the Han [River]), where it remained until the fall of the dynasty.

Originally entirely surrounded by a massive circular wall (a 20 ft-high circular stone fortress) to provide its citizens security from wild animals such as the tigers as well as thieves and attacks. The city has grown beyond those walls and although the wall no longer stands (outside of the mountains north of the downtown area), the gates remain near the downtown district of Seoul, including most notably Sungnyemun (commonly known as Namdaemun South Gate) and Heunginjimun (commonly known as Dongdaemun East Gate) but also Sukjeongmun (commonly known as Bukdaemun North Gate) and four smaller gates included Changuimun and Hyehwamun. During the Joseon Dynasty, the gates were opened and closed each day, accompanied by the ringing of large bells. A capital prefecture, Hanseong, consisted of inner districts (i.e. 사대문안) and outer districts (성저십리; approximately 4 km off the city wall). The Jungnangcheon River, the Han River, Mount Bukhan, and Hongjecheon formed the administrative prefectural boundary.

Korean Empire period
In the late 19th century, after hundreds of years of isolation, Seoul opened its gates to foreigners and began to modernize. Seoul became the first city in East Asia to have electricity, trolley cars, water, telephone, and telegraph systems all at the same time. Much of this was due to trade with foreign countries like France and United States. For example, the Seoul Electric Company, Seoul Electric Trolley Company, and Seoul Fresh Spring Water Company were all joint Korean-American owned enterprises. In 1904, an American by the name of Angus Hamilton visited the city and said, "The streets of Seoul are magnificent, spacious, clean, admirably made and well-drained. The narrow, dirty lanes have been widened, gutters have been covered, roadways broadened. Seoul is within measurable distance of becoming the highest, most interesting and cleanest city in the East".

Japanese colonial period

When the Empire of Japan annexed the Korean Empire, it made Seoul the colonial capital. While under colonial rule (1910–1945), the city was called Keijō (京城); (경성 or Kyongsong, literally meaning "capital city" in Hanja.). Keijō was an urban city (부/府) that had 2 wards: Keijō itself and Ryusan-ku (龍山區, 용산구, りゅうさんく). Gyeongseong was part of Gyeonggi Province, instead of being an independent city or prefecture as in Joseon and present days. In 1914, several outer districts of the prefecture were annexed to neighboring Goyang County (now Goyang City), reducing the administrative size of the prefecture. In 1936, Gyeongseong expanded itself as it annexed Yeongdeungpo from Siehung County (Now Siehung City) and recombined some parts of former Gyeongseong districts (Sungin, Yeonghee, etc.) from Goyang County. The Government-General Building served as the seat of the colonial government of Colonial Korea but was torn down in 1995.

Modern history

After World War II and Korea's liberation, the city took its present name of Seoul. When the Republic of Korea (South Korea) was declared, the new state adopted the city as its capital. In 1949, Seoul administrative area expanded to Ui-dong to the north, and Guro-dong and Daerim-dong to the south, recombining some areas which were annexed from original Seoul to Goyang County in 1914.

In 1950, the Korean War broke out and Seoul changed hands between the North Korean forces and South Korean forces four times, leaving the city largely destroyed at the end of the war. One estimate of the extensive damage states that at least 191,000 buildings, 55,000 houses, and 1,000 factories lay in ruins. In addition, there were a flood of refugees from the North, swelling the city's population to an estimated 2.5 million persons. More than half of them were homeless.

The government considered moving its capital city to Yeongdeungpo and Bupyeong, which are south of the Han River.

Following the war, Seoul became the focus of an immense reconstruction and modernization effort. Rapid economic growth achieved during the industrialization of the 1960s and 1970s raised living standards of residents considerably in Seoul.

In 1963, Seoul greatly expanded in size by annexing a number of towns and villages from several surrounding counties in Gyeonggi Province, such as Bucheon, Siheung, Gwangju, Yangju, and Gimpo. However, many newly annexed districts were still rural until Gangnam area began to be developed into urban neighborhoods from the late 1970s. At the same time, Gwacheon Township (today's Gwacheon city) and the northern part of West Township (today's Gwangmyeong city) in Siheung County, parts of Ojeong Township in Bucheon County, and Sindo Township in Goyang County were also annexed to the Seoul Metropolitan Urban Planning Districts (서울특별시 도시계획구역), taking these areas as provisional districts for further official municipal annexation to Seoul in the future. In 1973, some parts of Sindo Township in Goyang County (today's Jingwan-dong in the Eunpyeong District) were officially annexed to Seoul. The remaining parts of Sindo Township, Goyang and the northern part of West Township, Siheung (today's Gwangmyeong City) were provisionally planned to be annexed to Seoul, but the municipal annexation plan foundered in the end, in which the symbolic event for this was the establishment of Gwangmyeong City (other than annexation to Guro-gu) in 1981, as the rapid growth of Seoul City was a great concern for governmental officials.

High-rise office buildings and apartments began sprouting throughout the city during the construction boom of the 1980s. Pollution and traffic jams became major issues as urbanization in the country accelerated and more and more people began moving to Seoul and its surrounding areas. Despite a green belt established around the city to prevent urban sprawl, the Seoul metropolitan area soon became the third largest in the world in terms of population and one of the most crowded.

Seoul was the host city of the 1988 Summer Olympics as well as one of the venues of the 2002 FIFA World Cup.

Today, the population of the Seoul area comprises 20% of the total population of South Korea.

During the 1990s, the city began to attract many workers from other countries, changing demographics. Previously, nearly all of Seoul's residents were Korean. Today, there are an estimated 200,000 foreign nationals living in Seoul. These include tens of thousands of English teachers from the United States, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and other English-speaking countries, as well as laborers from Bangladesh, China, India, Indonesia, Mongolia, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Philippines, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam.

In 1995, the boundary between Seoul and Gwangmyeong rearrangement was implemented, merging parts of Cheolsan 3-dong, Gwangmyeong in the Geumcheon District of Seoul. Around the time of the 1995 municipal annexation in South Korea, the government once seriously considered a division of Seoul into several municipal or metropolitan cities, but the division plan foundered as it would be expected to cause serious problems in aspects of metropolitan governance in Seoul.

In the same year, a building collapse killed over 500 people in Seoul, mainly due to rushed construction, lack of evacuation, and selfish management by the owners. The collapse caused outrage across the country, and it was almost entirely preventable.

In addition, there are many language instructors from English-speaking countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, United States, and the UK. As a major business and financial center, Seoul also has many executives and analysts from North America, Europe, and Japan. Seoul ranks seventh in the world in terms of the number of Fortune 500 transnational companies headquartered there. It is also the world's second most expensive city, ahead of Tokyo and Hong Kong (ranked 3rd and 4th, respectively).

On 29 October 2022, a crowd crush ended up killing at least 156 people, including at least 19 foreign nationals.

Failed relocation of the capital
On 11 August 2004, the South Korean government announced they would relocate the capital city from Seoul to the Gongju area as of 2007, to ease population pressure on Seoul and to get the government to a safer distance from North Korea in case of a Northern military invasion. Gongju is approximately 120 km south of Seoul. The Government estimated that the move would probably not be completed before 2012. Although part of the election manifesto, this plan ignited nationwide controversy. On 21 October 2004, the Constitutional Court of Korea ruled that mostly based on custom law, the special law for the relocation of the capital is unconstitutional since the relocation is a serious national matter requiring national referendum or revision of the constitution, thus effectively ending the dispute.

In late 2004, however, the South Korean government announced plans to move most of the national government branches, except the Executive Branch, to Gongju, thus evading violation of the Constitutional Court ruling and still allow Seoul to be a National Capital. Since this plan was supported by the late president Roh Moo-hyun and bitterly opposed by the current ruling party and the former president (Lee Myung-bak – the former mayor of Seoul) the planned move was scaled back dramatically when Lee Myung-bak took office. As of 2011, some preliminary work has begun on construction of new government buildings in the Gongju area. No government agencies want to move away from the center of power in Seoul, so which agencies will be forced to move is the subject of intense behind-the-scenes debate.

Sejong City was founded in 2007 as part of efforts to relocate the national capital. It was created from territory of South Chungcheong and North Chungcheong provinces to ease congestion in Seoul and encourage investment in the country's central region. Since 2012, the Government of South Korea has relocated numerous ministries and agencies to Sejong, but many still reside in other cities - namely Seoul where the National Assembly, the Blue House and many important government bodies remain.

title: History of Seoul


text:
Hyæna

Hyæna is the sixth studio album by English rock band Siouxsie and the Banshees, released on 8 June 1984 by Polydor Records. The opening track, "Dazzle", featured strings played by musicians of the London Symphonic Orchestra (LSO), a 27-piece orchestra called the "Chandos Players"; it was scored from a tune that Siouxsie Sioux had composed on piano. Hyæna is the only studio album that guitarist Robert Smith of the Cure composed and recorded with Siouxsie and the Banshees.

In the United States, Hyæna was the first Banshees studio album to be released on Geffen Records, which also signed to reissue the rest of the band's catalog. Prior to that, "Dear Prudence" had become the band's highest-peaking single in the UK, reaching number 3 in September of the previous year. The song initially released as a stand-alone single in Europe, was issued in North America in May 1984. Consequently, it was finally added to the track listing of the US album version. Hyæna was the first Siouxsie and the Banshees album to enter the Billboard 200 in the US.

Hyæna was reissued on CD in a remastered, expanded edition in 2009. A 180 gram vinyl reissue of the album, remastered from the original ¼" tapes and cut half-speed at Abbey Road Studios by Miles Showell, was released in December 2018.

Critical reception and legacy
Upon release, Melody Maker wrote a favourable review: "Parts of it are so wistfully carefree that it's impossible not to credit Robert Smith as the talisman – his irreverence seems to course through everything. 'Take Me Back' is the Banshees rollicking like some primitive jazz combo drunk on the Good Lord's wine. On 'Belladonna', Smith's liquid guitar relaxes Sioux to the extent that she drops a few masks to reveal her vulnerability. When the siren sings 'daylight devours your unguarded hours', she's illuminating her own predicament so acutely it surely can't be coincidence. 'Dazzle', too, is naively daring: Siouxsie's voice, framed alone against the firmament of strings.... You can get impressed, wrapped up and lost in this'".

In his retrospective review for AllMusic, Stephen Cook gave Hyæna a 4.5 out of 5-star rating and wrote: "The emphasis here is on layered arrangements and pop tunes disguised as art-house production numbers ("Dazzle"); tasteful horn and keyboard parts expand the group's guitar-dominated sound and provide Siouxsie with an airy and dreamlike backdrop in which to fully display her considerable vocal talents". The Rolling Stone Album Guide gave a 3 out of 5 rating saying that Smith brought a "surprisingly disciplined influence" to the band, which they recognised in the album's "best cuts: the liquid-mercury 'Dazzle', the sparse 'Swimming Horses', and a lushly appointed cover of the Beatles' 'Dear Prudence'".

When the album was reissued, The Quietus praised it saying: "[It was] their most experimental work, Smith's presence is keenly felt on the disciplined execution of the grandiose 'Dazzle' or the starkly seductive 'Swimming Horses'. But the real treasures were buried deep within the album. The lysergic Spaghetti Western twang of 'Bring Me the Head of the Preacher Man' is evocative in its execution while the densely epic 'Blow the House Down' finds Smith indelibly stamping his mark on the track courtesy of some his finest guitar work".

Hyæna was namechecked by Brett Anderson, the singer of Suede. James Dean Bradfield of Manic Street Preachers hired producer Hedges because he loved the sound on lead single "Swimming Horses". Bradfield stated: "Swimming Horses' by the Banshees – what a fucking record that is!... I remember thinking 'You really care about that record. I'm gonna have to chase that record down." He also mentioned the importance of the drums: "I loved... Banshees records... where everything starts with the drums".

Track listing
All music is composed by Siouxsie and the Banshees (Siouxsie Sioux, Steven Severin, Budgie and Robert Smith) except "Belladonna" (Siouxsie, Severin and Budgie).

The two "Baby Piano" instrumental tracks are, respectively, a short piano demo of "Dazzle" and the string backing to the album version of the song.

Personnel

 * Siouxsie and the Banshees
 * Siouxsie Sioux – vocals
 * Steven Severin – electric bass, keyboards
 * Budgie – drums, percussion, marimba
 * Robert Smith – guitars, keyboards

Additional personnel
 * Robin Canter – woodwind
 * The Chandos Players – strings
 * Mike Hedges – production, engineering
 * David Kemp – engineering assistance
 * Frank Barretta – engineering assistance
 * Siouxsie and the Banshees – production

title: Hyæna


text:
National Rifle Association (United Kingdom)

The National Rifle Association (NRA) is the governing body for full bore rifle and pistol shooting sports in the United Kingdom. The Association was founded in 1859 with the founding aim of raising funds for an annual national rifle meeting to improve standards of marksmanship. Today the NRA continues this objective as well as organising civilian target shooting and selecting British teams to contest the ICFRA World Championships. The National Shooting Centre at Bisley is a wholly owned subsidiary of the association.

History
The National Rifle Association was founded in 1859, 12 years before its (unconnected) American namesake. Registered as a United Kingdom charity, its objectives are to "promote and encourage marksmanship throughout the King’s dominions in the interest of defence and the permanence of the volunteer and auxiliary forces, naval, military and air." In pursuit of this, its founding aim was to raise the funds for an annual national rifle meeting (now known as the Imperial Meeting). The Association was originally based on Wimbledon Common, where the Imperial Meeting was held for its first 20 years.

In 1860, Queen Victoria fired the opening shot of the first Imperial Meeting. The Whitworth rifle used and the target can be seen in the Museum of the NRA at Bisley. The Queen also sponsored the Queen's Prize match with a £250 cash prize - worth around £38,000 at 2024 prices. The first winner was 17 year old Edward Ross of the 7th North Yorkshire Volunteers.

The Imperial Meeting quickly gained significance in high society. In 1878 Edward Walford wrote "These annual gatherings are attended by the élite of fashion, and always include a large number of ladies, who generally evince the greatest interest in the target practice of the various competitors, whether it be for the honour of carrying off the Elcho Shield, the Queen's or the Prince of Wales's Prize, or the shield shot for by our great Public Schools, or the Annual Rifle Match between the Houses of Lords and Commons." Key matches such as the Elcho were significant social occasions on par with The Boat Race. Shooters and officials were often household names, and featured or even caricatured in society publications such as Vanity Fair.

The Association moved from Wimbledon to Bisley Camp in 1890 after encroaching housing development around Wimbledon caused concerns about the ongoing ability to safely operate the ranges. In the same year, Queen Victoria granted the National Rifle Association a royal charter of incorporation.

The NRA had a strong influence on the development of shooting sports around the world, particularly within the British Empire. The formation of the NRA of Australia in 1888 was prompted in part by the desire of regional associations to put together an Australian team to compete at Wimbledon.

As a skill-based sport, target shooting became open to women from an early point. Participation was in open competition alongside men rather than separate events, although in practice many clubs refused to accept female members. In 1891, Winifred Leale of the Guernsey Rifle Club became the first woman to compete in an NRA Competition. In 1930, Marjorie Foster became the first woman to win the Sovereign's Prize. A road on Bisley Camp is named in her honour. Female participation was not restricted to the UK - in Australia, the North Queensland Rifle Association is documented as holding ladies' competitions as early as May 1899 (although Australian women were controversially excluded when the Army took control of fullbore rifle clubs in 1903).

1990s–present
Through the 1990s and 2000s, the NRA experienced falling membership and financial difficulties. Although the 2002 Commonwealth Games saw some capital investment to the Bisley facilities, other facilities including the accommodation and camping ablutions declined, with the NRA making significant redundancies in 2011 and 2012.

In 2013, new management within the NRA saw a wholesale change in approach to estate management and membership. Controversially, leases for clubhouses on Bisley Camp were increased significantly. One tenant fought a high profile battle in the media - having rejected the outcome of arbitration. This episode was misreported in national press as involving the "Regimental Clubhouse" of the Artists Rifles Regiment, but the Artists Rifle Club had in fact vacated the building in 1967 and had no connection with the new tenant.

As a result of lease controversies, Conservative MP Adam Holloway referred the NRA to the Charity Commission in 2019. The Commission had no concerns with the NRA's seeking market rates for rents and leases, but issued formal regulatory advice when it found the NRA had more generally acted outside its charitable objects by promoting civilian recreational shooting.

In 2020 the Charity Commission stated that the association had made progress and withdrew the decision in April 2022.

The National Shooting Centre
The National Shooting Centre (NSC) is a wholly-owned trading subsidiary of the National Rifle Association. Through the NSC, the Association owns the freehold on "Bisley Camp", which covers the built areas including Club Row, other buildings and clubhouses as well as the extensive caravan and camping sites. The Camp area also includes some smaller, self-contained ranges such as Cheylesmore. The larger ranges (Century, Stickledown and Short Siberia) are held on a 99-year lease from the Ministry of Defence. Although these are operated directly by the NSC and are not strictly military ranges, they do utilise the MoD Danger Area (which serves the adjacent Pirbright Camp military ranges). Consequently, they remain subject to some MoD rules for civilian use of military ranges.

The original ranges for the NRA's Imperial Meeting were at Wimbledon, but in the late 1880s the National Rifle Association began searching for a new site. In early 1888 it seemed that Cannock Chase was to be selected from several locations under consideration. However, that plan fell through a few months later, and the other potential venues again put their cases, with the Middlesex Chronicle newspaper suggesting that a large site at Staines was a likely home for "The New Wimbledon". Eventually though, Bisley was selected. The principal ranges used at Bisley today are as originally laid out in 1890 to accommodate modern full-bore rifle shooting.

Museum of the National Rifle Association
The Museum of the NRA opened in 1997, some 90 years after it was first proposed. Located on the first floor of the NRA Headquarters on Bisley Camp, it occupies the former stats offices - which became available after the introduction of computers greatly reduced the desk and filing space required for collating competition results.

A working group of volunteers was formed in 1991. The decision was quickly taken to focus on Association history, rather than being a general firearms museum. As well as housing some of the Association's largest and most unwieldy trophies, the museum contains a reference library and picture gallery, along with exhibits of historic firearms, medals, memorabilia and shooting equipment. A further study-collection of historic rifles is maintained which are not on display but available to researchers.


text:
Talk:Robert Dale Owen

Untitled
His father Robert Owen was not a socialist. He was a mill owner and a capitalist. He believed in kindness and believed this was the way to get the best from his workers, but they were still his workers. I suspect the US threshold for defining something as "socialist" is quite low. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.112.58 (talk) 21:00, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Robert Owen is considered a socialist not because he "believed in kindness," but because of his criticisms of capitalism combined with his proposals to reorganize society (and eventually the world) on new lines going far beyond anything he did at his mills. In fact Friedrich Engels (himself the manager of a textile business) wrote in Anti-Dühring that Owen's Book of the New Moral World contained "the most clear-cut communism possible." Robert Dale Owen, on the other hand, ended up a supporter of private property in no small part due to the failure of his father's experiment at New Harmony. --Ismail (talk) 09:51, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

indiana bill of rights
i was under the impression - and i coud be wrong - that owen was a major payer in the 1851 constitutional revision of the bill of rights, section 1 of the indiana constitution. no mention of that in the article, just mentions a different article of the revised constitution.

2601:48:C601:50E0:BD01:F58C:480F:8E48 (talk) 21:40, 21 April 2021 (UTC)arbitraryaardvark gtbear at gmail.

title: Talk:Robert Dale Owen


text:
Torpo

Torpo is a small village in Ål municipality, in Buskerud County, Norway, and can be reached by using highway 7.

The name Torpo was adopted July 1, 1935 from the old name Torpe. At this date the train station and local post office started using the new adopted name.

Torpo is located in Hallingdal between the municipal centers of Ål and Gol. It is adjacent to the villages of Lien and Opheim. The village has 405 inhabitants per 1 January 2009. Previously Torpo was a stopover on the Bergen Railway. Torpo Railway Station, which is in Art Nouveau style, is closed but still standing.

Torpo is the site of two notable churches. Torpo Church (Torpo kirke) was built in 1880 using plans by architect A. Keitel Moss based on a design by Conrad Fredrik von der Lippe (1833–1901). It was constructed of wood and has 200 seats. In the 1960s it was restored with plans drawn up by architect Peter Helland-Hansen.

Torpo Stave Church is the biggest attraction in the village. Torpo Stave Church was built around 1190–1200. It has a steady stream of visiting tourists during the summer.

title: Torpo