text:
Talk:Mir Jafar

Untitled
do you think that this is where disney got the idea to name the bad guy in Alladin Jafar?

Just an idea, not enough confidence here to actually make an article about it.

 * No. The story of Aladin comes from Arabian Nights, which predates Mir Jafar by 900 years. --Ragib 19:22, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * @Ragib The story of Aladdin is unknown in the Middle East. Antoine Galland is the first one in whose works it appears. Also, in the original there is no Jafar. Jafar was invented by Disney. However, Disney probably directly borrowed Jafar from the Prince of Persia. --YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 10:40, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

The tale of Aladin, while definitely not in the original Arabian nights, is definitely Middle Eastern or Central Asian. Galland writes in his diaries of hearing it from a Syrian storyteller, and incorporating it in his translation of the Arabian Nights. --Shanky (talk) 11:15, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Disputed neutrality?
I noticed a "neutrality" flag in the article, but no discussion. The earlier article came down very heavily on Mir Jafar being a traitor and the only reason for British Rule in India, which I changed to a more balanced view. Some of the stories of his cowardice were somewhat exaggerated, and his plotting to gain power was hardly unusual in the fractured and vicious politics of the time. Not to say that he's an angel, but his treachery has received more notoriety because of the events involved, not because he was exceptional. The widely quoted "betrayal on the battlefield" seems grossly overstated. Mir Jafar and Siraj-Ud-Daulah were hardly on good terms well before the battle, and Siraj was already on the retreat from the resurgent British. Further, the holdback of troops by Mir Jafar happened at Katwah, not at Plassey - it enabled the British to advance to Plassey where Siraj faced them and was defeated. --Shanky 01:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your improvement. I don't know why the flag was set, but I have removed it now. -- Robert Weemeyer 11:36, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

It hardly seems neutral to me ... What constitutes neutral language?

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 00:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Edit war
There's a reversion war going on without even basic discussion on this talk page? That's ridiculous. Ragib, HumayunMirzajr, please discuss your concerns here and work out a resolution so that the page doesn't have to be protected. kmccoy (talk) 09:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't really have any issues ... if you check the history, I stumbled upon this page today after editing it last in 2005 (2 years ago), and noticed a section being removed. Since the section didn't have any references, I looked up and added one. seems to have taken offence at that particular section, and is removing it without any explanation. I've reported him for 3RR. Other than that, I have no issues or disputes regarding this page, as the page history shows. Thanks. --Ragib 09:16, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

'Descendants' is the issue I am concered. As I am doing this according to my own wishes and wishes of Major-General Iskander's Mirza's Daughters/ My aunts. The Part which I keep on deleting has caused vandalising in reality. HumayunMirzajr. and if this isn't a good enough reason I can give evidence of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HumayunMirzajr (talk • contribs) 09:26, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, please, provide a reference as to why the referenced paragraph is not true. Please provide a reference from a reliable third party source. Any reliable sources are most welcome here. Thank you. --Ragib 09:28, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/India4/murshidabad.htm The Source of The Mirza's Family Tree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HumayunMirzajr (talk • contribs) 09:31, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Can you point to the specific page please? I'll look through it tomorrow and verify. Thanks. --Ragib 09:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

http://www.4dw.net/royalark/India4/murshid14.htm Major-General Iskander Mirza's Page and background. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HumayunMirzajr (talk • contribs) 09:40, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

From what I read through the maze of ancestry records you presented, is the following correct?

Shuja ul-Mulk, Hashim ud-Daula, Nawab Ja'afar 'Ali Khan Bahadur, Mahabat Jang [Mir Muhammad Ja'afar] (i.e. Mir Jafar)
 * Mutamid ul-Mulk, Mubaraq ud-Daula, Nawab Sayyid Mubaraq 'Ali
 * Mutamid ul-Mulk, Mubaraq ud-Daula, Nawab Sayyid Mubaraq 'Ali
 * Nasir ul-Mulk, Azad ud-Daula, Nawab Sayyid Babar 'Ali Khan
 * Wala Jah, Burhan ul-Mulk, Ihtisham ud-Daula, Nawab Sayyid Ahmad 'Ali
 * Humayun Jah, Shuja-ul-Mulk, Ihtisham-ud-Daula, Nawab Sayyid Mubaraq 'Ali
 * Faridun Jah, Muntazim ul-Mulk, Mohsin ud-Daula, Nawab Sayyid Mansur 'Ali Khan Bahadur
 * Khurshid Qadr, Sahibzada Sayyid Iskander 'Ali Mirza Bahadur
 * Jafr Qadr, Sahibzada Sayyid Muhammad Fateh 'Ali Mirza [Nawab Mirza].
 * Iskander Mirza

If so, it conclusively proves that Mir Jafar was the ancestor of Iskander Mirza. Can you check and say whether the above is correct? Thanks. --Ragib 17:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

It does prove that 50 % not complete. The other 50 % I have evidence of I am not saying you're wrong 100 % only 50 %. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HumayunMirzajr (talk • contribs)

 * I don't understand what you said above, would you care to elaborate? I used the genealogy tree YOU mentioned, and followed the "Son-of" sequence from Iskander Mirza back to Mir Jafar. What is then wrong here? A person can be the son of only one person, so if your own reference supports the reference I added, what contradicts that? Please state this clearly. --Ragib 17:21, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Mutamid ul-Mulk, Mubaraq ud-Daula, Nawab Sayyid Mubaraq 'Ali Nasir ul-Mulk, Azad ud-Daula, Nawab Sayyid Babar 'Ali Khan

this part... a missing link and yes I know its my source. The missing is that Ali Nasir had a daughter not a son. So its like this : Daughter --- Son (becomes nawab) Son  Daughter  Son --- son --- son--son ---son --- Iskander Mirza  —Preceding unsigned comment added by HumayunMirzajr (talk • contribs) 17:26, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * In that case, please provide your source (which must be reliable) so that we can verify this ourselves. Also, please sign your posts with ~ --Ragib 17:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * My source sadly passed away, but to prove this we can go to murshidabad and I can show the proof. and I know how to sign my friend. HumayunMirzaJR 17:32, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Well then, until you come up with the reference, we can stick with the genealogy information we obtained from *your source* above, and also from the reference I added. Per WP:V, I'll restore the paragraph tonight along with the new genealogical information reference. If you have a verifiable information, that is also welcome. Verifiability is the core principle of Wikipedia, and we must adhere to it. Any information added must be supported by reliable sources, and unverifiable personal knowledge is not at all a source. Thank you. --Ragib 17:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Well not exactly we are not safe, and a person being grand son of mg-Iskander Mirza should be enough, but the Sir Name's is also makes it obvious... about my proof. I am sure Bibliography BK Gupta, Sirajuddaulah and the East India Company, 1756-57, Leiden, 1962; Kalikankar Datta, Sirajuddaulah, Calcutta 1971; JN Sarkar (ed), The History of Bengal, II, Dhaka, 1972; AK Maitreya, Siraj-uddaula (in Bangla), Calcutta, 1304 BS; S Chaudhury, The Prelude to Empire: Plassey Revolution of 1757, New Delhi, 2000. You can find for sure evidence from this if you get you're hands on it. HumayunMirzaJR 17:45, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

My other source perhaps would be by a book by my uncle ' From Plassey to Pakistan'

List of Illustrations ix Preface  xiii Acknowledgements xix Bengal and its Nawabs 1 (20) Early European settlements 2 (2) Murshid Quli Khan and Aliverdi Khan 4 (8) Siraj-ud-doula 12 (3) The Black Hole of Calcutta 15 (6) Syed Mir Mohammed Jafar Ali Khan 21 (26) The Conspiracy 25 (6) The Battle of Plassey 31 (7) The Aftermath 38 (1) Encroachment of the English 39 (8) The Heirs of Mir Jafar 47 (26) Reigns of his Sons 49 (4) Further Encroachment of the English 53 (4) Later Nawabs 57 (16) Syed Mansur Ali Khan 73 (44) Early Life 74 (5) Problems with the British Government 79 (16) Visit to England 95 (11) Abdication 106 (11) The Meerza Family 1880-1947 117 (14) The Nawab Bahadurs of Murshidabad 117 (6) The English Relatives 123 (8) Syed Iskander Ali Mirza 131 (124) The Early Years 132 (7) The Indian Political Service 139 (11) Transition to Independence 150 (3) Creation of Pakistan's Armed Forces 153 (6) The Princely States and the Kashmir Issue 159 (5) The Army's Changing Role 164 (3) The Road to the Presidency 167 (16) The House of Musical Chairs 183 (36) The Revolution 219 (12) Exiled 231 (24) The Vanishing Breed 255 (74) Early Life in India and Pakistan 256 (9) Move to America 265 (27) General Mohammad Ayub Khan 292 (6) Zulfikar Ali Bhutto 298 (21) General Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq 319 (10) Epilogue 329 (12) Appendix I: Genealogy 341 (6) Appendix II: Rules Governing Marriages in the Nizamat Family 347 (6) Appendix III: The Royal Military College Sandhurst Records-1920 353 (2) Appendix IV: Letters of Iskander Mirza 355 (10) Appendix V: Telegram from Air-Vice Marshal Canon, C-in-C Royal Pakistan Air Force 365 (2) Appendix VI: President's Proclamation 367 (4) Appendix VII: Letter dated October 11, 1958 from President Eisenhower to President Mirza 371 (2) Appendix VIII: ``Secret'' Telegram dated September 23, 1958 from the U. S. Embassy in Pakistan to the Secretary of State in Washington D. C. 373 (2) Appendix IX: Exchange of Letters with Governor 375 (6) Thomas E. Dewey Appendix X: Estate of President Iskander Mirza 381 (4) Appendix XI: Resignation of President Iskander Mirza and General Ayub's statements upon assuming the presidency 385 (2) Appendix XII: Exchange of Letters during the October 1965 War with India 387 (2) Appendix XIII: Correspondence with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto 389 (2) Appendix XIV: Letter dated October 17, 1958 from US Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles to President Iskander Mirza 391 (2) Notes 393 (14) Bibliography 407 (6) Index 413

—Preceding unsigned comment added by HumayunMirzajr (talk • contribs) 18:06, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Your being the "Grandson of " whatever is of no relevance here. The book you mentioned here clearly refers to Mir Jafar, so I'm confused as to what you found there to refute the genealogy. Please provide exact page numbers for your references so I can verify them. Thanks. --Ragib 18:16, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The Heirs of Mir Jafar 47 (26) Reigns of his Sons 49 (4) Further Encroachment of the English 53 (4) Later Nawabs 57 (16) Syed Mansur Ali Khan 73 (44) HumayunMirzaJR 18:21, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * So, I'm trying to put this all together in my head. I did the same as Ragib and followed the first site given and traced the line straight back.  Now you're saying that your own source isn't correct?  I think there are some issues here with conflicts of interest that need to be addressed.  I feel that, at least to some extent, the motivation here is not what is best for Wikipedia, but what is best for a particular family.  I'm going to go back to an edit which includes the text, as sourced by Ragib.  I am eager for other editors without personal involvement in this matter to take a look at the relevant edits. kmccoy (talk) 07:25, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Page protection
I urge any admins who come here in response to a request for protection to look at the situation and, instead of protecting the page, consider warning or blocking editors who make continued reverts without discussion on the talk page. kmccoy (talk) 09:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Agreed. I'm not editing the article until I hear HumayunMirzajr's explanation for the removal of referenced information (he must have some reason for vehemently opposing the info ...), so waiting for his references. I've explained 3RR to the user and requested him not to remove referenced info without discussion. Thanks. --Ragib 09:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Page move
Why was this article moved from "Mir Jafar" to the title "Mir Jafar of Bengal"? --Ragib (talk) 15:09, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

lol the reason probably because the dude is against him 100% and hates him so he wants to say the Bengalis hate him probably HumayunMirzaJR (talk) 18:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether someone hates him or not, but another page, Mubarak Ali Khan II of Bengal conveys with this matter.--NAHID 19:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't see this term ("Mir Jafar of Bengal") being used anywhere (only 10 Ghits). I'm moving it back to Mir Jafar, which is the term used to refer to the subject. --Ragib (talk) 19:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Irony
Mir Jafar is one of the most controversial man in history.

There are accounts that he was once a Subedar of Orissa for the "Nawab of Bengal", who served on behalf of the "Great Moghul". Re3st567 (talk)\Re3st567 (talk) 19:43, 6 September 2019 (UTC)\\\\\~
 * For the start, newer discussions go at the end of a talk page. Also, don't understand what you are trying to get at. -- Tamra vidhir  (talk) 20:00, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Birthplace Controversy
Nawab Mir Jafar Ali Khan was come from Iran to Bengal with an emty hand and that I was read in our studybook. If creator sure about birthplace then he show his citation.Foysalur Rahman Shuvo (talk) 17:19, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mir Jafar


text:
Moyshe-Leyb Halpern

Moyshe-Leyb Halpern (משה-לײב האַלפּערן) (January 2, 1886 – August 31, 1932) was a Yiddish-language modernist poet. He was born and raised in a traditional Jewish household in Zlotshev, Galicia and brought to Vienna at the age of 12 in 1898 to study commercial art. He then began writing modernist poetry in German. Upon returning to his hometown in 1907, he switched to writing in Yiddish. One of his best-known poems is a satire about his hometown.

In order to avoid the military draft, Halpern emigrated to New York City in 1908 where he became associated with a group of Yiddish poets called Di Yunge (The Young Ones). He published his first book of poetry in 1919, In nyu york (In New York), translated to English by Kathryn Hellerstein

That same year he married Rayzele Barron. Their son Isaac (Ying) Halpern was born in 1923. His second book, Di Goldene Pave, was published in 1924. Halpern also wrote for satirical magazines and Morgen Freiheit, a communist Yiddish newspaper. After leaving the Freheit in 1928, he lived in Los Angeles for two years. He died of a heart attack in New York in 1932.

Ruth Wisse writes about him thus: "Halpern was generally less sociable than his literary colleagues and everyone who met him in the early immigrant years commented on the solitude which seemed particularly pronounced in him. His fellow poet, Mani Leib, recalled that “we, his friends, like all other Jewish immigrants, also bore the fear of this wondrous unknown called America. But somehow we . . . gave in, adapted ourselves, ‘ripened’ and gradually became . . . real Americans. Not Moishe Leib. He could never compromise or bend.” Though he contributed to the group’s many publications and little magazines, he was slightly apart from the others, the lone wolf, or, as the play on his name suggested, the brooding Lion, Moishe Leib. Almost alone among his fellow writers he failed to find steady work in the small factories, manual trades, or editorial offices where most of the others eventually made their living, and this economic precariousness, which continued practically without interruption until his death, contributed to his image as a troubling nonconformist, and to his artistic distance."Halpern's importance can be measured in the 50 poems and 400 articles written from 1932 to 1954 on him by his contemporaries, some of whom include Jacob Glatstein, Itzik Manger, and Mani Leib.

Further reading and Links

 * Ruth Wisse, A Little Love in Big Manhattan
 * Julien Levinson, Biographical Essay
 * Entry on Moyshe-Leyb Halpern at the Yiddish Leksikon
 * Video interview with his son from the Yiddish Book Center

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Moyshe-Leyb Halpern


text:
Talk:Asiento de Negros

French version
The French version says the opposite that Spain didn't do the slave trade directly but bought this "ebony" to those allowed (asiento) politicaly.

The author makes an interesting comment comparing modern patent law to the way colonial governments looked at trading monopolies. I'd like to open a discussion with the author on this but don't know how to contact him/her. WmJnHlversn WmJnHlvrsn 17:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Why are all the Portuguese names written in Spanish? Why is Coutinho spelled Couti(tilde n)o? Why is there no mention of Miller's books. Or the major work: Luiz Filipe d'Alemcastro, Trato dos Viventes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.63.200.23 (talk) 22:18, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello, the names come from a Spanish website. I had no idea who is Portugese or how names can be spelled in Portugese. I'm Dutch. What is the title of Miller's book, what is his first name? When was it published. You could add your knowledge, don't hesitate.Taksen (talk) 04:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC) I think "license" would be a better term in the first part, rather than "permission." An asiento was a license to sell slaves.98.225.109.243 (talk) 21:19, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes Joseph Miller's book on the slave trade 1730-1830 should be mentioned and also Trato dos Viventes, as well as Herbert Klein's general history. The bibliograpy is very inadequate.98.225.109.243 (talk) 21:19, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Pathetic, and probably deliberate Failure by Editors To Date to properly explore and explain this history
Up to this point, the only comment on the conditions of the enslaved people undergoing the horrors of the Asiento is this, "The best captains paid careful attention to the feeding of their slaves - primarily cornmeal mush, seasoned with peppers." It is pathetic failure of basic morality and historical accuracy that the editors of this article have so far failed to explore the history of the ethics of the Asiento. Of course I will not rule out the possibility that this failure is not accidental, but a deliberate attempt on the part of nationals whose country's of origin were involved in the slave trade to whitewash, minimize, justify and excuse this brutal chapter in history. Nor will I rule out that the editors so far have been motivated, not only by a pathetic need to defend the indefensible, but even worse, by actual contempt for their fellow human beings, based on the ill-gotten ideology of racism. And, before the perpetrators of this fraudulent article start howling in defence of its insulting nature, they should be reminded that the people enslaved by the asiento were human beings, with husbands, wives, children, brothers, sisters and friends. And, the fact that some African states, businesses and warlords were involved in a joint enterprise with their Euro-American business partners should never obscure the fact that millions of people were killed, forcibly deported and subjected to the most outrageous exploitation, humiliations and degradations as a result of the Asiento. To pretend otherwise is disgraceful and he editors up to this point should be utterly ashamed of themselves. I'll be back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ackees (talk • contribs) 09:54, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

 * It is not very nice or honest you did not sign. Besides you sound like a priest or poet, not as researcher. Byebye from Amsterdam. Taksen (talk) 11:38, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Unless I am mistaken, the SineBot signed on my behalf. Your comment indicates that you consider 'ethics' has no connection to 'research'. This is THE most fundamental error of scholarship. Research without ethics is simply aggression, lies and scandal. Any editor with the slightest sense of personal dignity would be ashamed at associating themselves with the complete ethical failures of this article. If you claim to know so much about the Asiento, why don't you tell the truth about it. Or, are you simply waiting for somebody with a more elevated sense of humanity to do what you cannot. Ackees (talk) 12:05, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Hello Mr Ackees, instead of being happy there is a lemma, you start to complain. I am one of the few who I added to this article and felt attacked. It seems other people are not exited about your comments either. I would not be surprised if you were living in one of the richest countries in the world, and not on the poorest continent. Byebye. Taksen (talk) 18:51, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The slave trade was a horrific episode of history. However, it is only with the benefit on hindsight that we recognise that, following the campaigns from the 1780s for its abolition.  WP requires WP:NPOV.  It is important that articles should not seek to whitewash the trade and its participants, but it is equally important that it should not seek to blackwash those whose participation was at most very slight (such as Thomas Guy).  I suspect that Ackees' ire has been generated by comments that I put on the talk page of that article.  I would appreciate comments on what I raised there.  Peterkingiron (talk) 17:29, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Dear Peter. It is completely untrue to suggest that nobody thought the slave trade was 'horrific' until the campaigns of the 1780s. It is disingenous to say that 'we' think so only with hindsight, because obviously 'we' - that is wikipedia editors did not exist at that time, so the concept of our hindsight is irrelevant. I think that in using the racially loaded terms 'blackwash' and 'whitewash' in this specific context you are in danger of seeming like somebody intent on fanning the flames of discord. It is not neutral to pretend that the slave trade had no consequences for the individuals concerned - it simply false.Ackees (talk) 13:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Language
Hello User:XPTO. It looks as if you changed all the Spanish names into Portuguese ones. It looks consistant. I hope this does not become an edit war with Spanish users. You could have given us an explanation of what you did, dont you think, especially as you dont have an user page, so we cannot see where you are from. If I remember well the names were changed before a few months ago.

Secondly Assiento with two ss's lookes stupid to me. The word is from the Spanish, and that should be shown and clear. Anyone else who has an opinion? Taksen (talk) 08:02, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

"Asiento" is the accepted form. Simply Googling "Assiento" will result in an automatic redirect to results for "Asiento". In numeric terms alone there are some 9,100,000 results for "Asiento" to a mere 59,000 for "Assiento", the most commonly reproduced of the latter being viral Internet clones of the errant Wikipedia spelling corrected this day. Wikiuser100 (talk) 07:39, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree too, I have never seen "assiento" - it should be at "asiento." TuckerResearch (talk) 06:12, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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Title?
Would it make more sense to have this titled "Asiento de Negros"? At the moment, we begin the article with an etymological description of what "asiento" in general means but then the entire article is about specifically the asiento for providing the Spanish Empire with African slaves. I guess we could keep the first paragraph of the article but put it under an etymology section, where it would probably be more useful. Torchist (talk) 10:20, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Strange
There is something in this page that does not match history. How do you explain that Spain would at the same time sell rights to trade slaves and forbid slavery ? Slavery was forbidden in the spanish colonies in all colonial times after 1535. At first sight, I would say that this page is 99% invented. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Forest Ent (talk • contribs) 11:07, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
 * It was banned to enslave Natives, so African slaves were imported.--Menah the Great (talk) 01:33, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

"Holders of the Asiento", NPOV violation and not about the holders of the asiento
The present section keeps going on absurd tangents about Danish, Swedish, Dutch enslaving companies, wars in Europe and Spanish bankruptcies that are irrelevant to the people holding the Asiento contract, plus non-neutral comments like a seemingly sarcastic reference to "infidels" in quotation marks and claims that the English "envied" the Dutch for profiting from the Asiento. A simple table with entries for dates, name, maybe nationality and other/further information (that is actually relevant to the entry in question, like the city he was established on, or the number of slaves imported) should suffice.--Menah the Great (talk) 02:40, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Asiento de Negros for Welser family
!518   Decree of Holy Roman Emperor Charles V establishing the importation of African slaves to the Americas, under monopoly of Laurent de Gouvenot, in an attempt to discourage enslavement of Native Americans. 1528 	Charles V forbids the transportation of Native Americans to Europe, even on their own will, in an effort to curtail their enslavement. Encomiendas are banned from collecting tribute in gold with the reasoning that Natives were selling their children to get it. The Welser family is granted with the Asiento monopoly in Venezuela province. 1530 	Outright slavery of Native Americans under any circumstance is banned. However, forced labor under the Encomienda continues. 1536 	The Welser family is dispossessed of the Asiento monopoly (granted in 1528) following complaints about their treatment of Native American workers in Venezuela. 1537 	New World 	Pope Paul III forbids slavery of the indigenous peoples of the Americas and any other population to be discovered, establishing their right to freedom and property (Sublimis Deus — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:586:4380:B400:F13C:BFE2:7915:8336 (talk) 22:57, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Do you have a source?Taksen (talk) 03:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Asiento de Negros


text:
Talk:Direct-shift gearbox

American POV
Uh, American reviews usually don't like CVT, but DSG is getting rave reviews here... I will dig out (links to) the two articles that gave me that impression. Both from BorgWarners investorrs web site, scanned in articles from "Auto News" (publication):-
 * and

 * Agreed. This is an odd comment and in my opinion not relevant to this article. Perhaps the author was referring to the fact that more vehicles contain CVT's? Porcupine911 02:55, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Who are the two new European OEMs?
I have scanned the internet and can find numerous references to BorgWarners recent press release but no one has named the two new car manufactureres that will be able to use the DualTronic (DSG) gearbox in their 2007 models. Mark 23:05, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

 * My understanding is that Mercedes-Benz and BMW will use DSG gearboxes under license from Borg-Warner. Meanwhile, Ford Motor Company announced their intention to build their own version of a DSG gearbox.

Isn't it VAG?
...to Volkswagen (which also owns the Audi, SEAT, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini and Škoda brands). I think technically, all those brands are held under the VAG company (Volkswagen Audi Group) so this sentence is not exactly accurate... --67.189.98.43 02:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

 * VAG does not stand for Volkswagen Audi Group, but rather Volkswagenwerk Aktiengesellschaft, or "Volkswagen Corporation." TomTheHand 12:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Wrong . . . "Volkswagenwerk Aktiengesellschaft" does NOT exist, and has not done so since 1985! -- Teutonic Tamer 10:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

It is known as Volkswagen AG, AG (as explained) is a type of German company.

 * In the UK, "VAG" initially stood for "Volkswagen Audi Group" - when just VW and Audi were under the same ownership, and both marques were sold from the same car showrooms. However, the current Volkswagen Group contains many more brands, but "VAG" is still used informally to indicate "Volkswagen Group" brands/marques. Only in Germany, does VAG now technically refer to "Volkswagen AG" - however, informally, VAG still refers to the entire stable of VW Group brands. -- Teutonic Tamer 10:22, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Veyron gearbox?
My understanding is that the Dual Clutch transmission for the Veyron was the work of Ricardo plc, the UK transmission specialist responsible for the Ford GT's transmission. That would be backed up by the fact that they won an award for it (see http://www.ricardo.com/media/pressreleases/pressrelease.aspx?page=38).

The gearbox developed by Borg-Warner is certainly a nice piece of kit, but it's a different piece of equipment than the Veyron box - which has to deal with over 900lb.ft of torque in the Veyron.

While I am on the subject of amendments - the article reads like Borg Warner invented this class of transmission (dual-clutch, pre-engaging). I know that Porsche used this design in the early 1970's on their Le Mans car of the time, and I expect the history goes back further than that. One could argue that Borg Warner "invented" DSG, but its akin to saying Ford "invented" the Mustang. They certainly make the car in question, but the point is, it's not an invention, it's a product... Craigy 217.155.94.30 19:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Per your last point, what if we were to say, "...dual-clutch gearbox designed by BorgWarner" ? That would confer that this iteration of a dual-clutch transmission is their work, but doesn't imply that they invented the concept (much like Ford designed the Mustang). Peel 19:40, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

 * The Veyron 'box was indeed done by Ricardo; a mate of mine worked on it. Mr Larrington (talk) 13:46, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

January 5
I added more to the page including operation, advantages, and disadvantages aswell as cleaned it up. KG

8 or 80 milliseconds, which is it
The page says 80 millisecond shift times, but the reference page (on about.com) says 8ms... which is it anyone? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.152.114.136 (talk) 00:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

I believe the 2008 M3 will have DSG as an option

80 I believe
The figures I see in most sources are 8/100 of a second, which is 80 ms. If it was really 8 ms, it would be shifting in less time than it takes an M60 20mm Gatling gun (6000 rounds per minute) to fire a single bullet, which is pretty unbelievable.

Shift speed varies widely Gatling comparison is pointless, DSG is not a hydraulic-power rotating gun and there are no elevant parallels in the mechanisms. Upshifts as fast as 8ms are mentioned [|here]. Typical shift times are 0.3 to 0.4 seconds; during upshifts engine power is interrupted for only 8 milliseconds. The modeller is ex-industry (transmission engineer, FFD-Ricardo, so I credit that he he is knowledgeable about the real thing (link is for a Meccano model, but comment is about full-scale DSG gearbox). An 8ms change is not quite so unbelievable, keeping in mind that DSG shifts involve a change from clutch in use to the second clutch, with the gear to be used on the second clutch pre-selected. Centrepull (talk) 07:45, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I opened up a discussion over on the wikiproject. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles Dabbaman (talk) 20:08, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

clutch needed for first and R ?
also if downshift is anticipated, how is the (currently unused) input shaft 'sped up'? CorvetteZ51 13:42, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

→ Clearly, the open clutch is sped-up by the synchroniser, same as on a manual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.58.31.245 (talk) 00:23, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

There's one input shaft, connected by the clutches to the gearshafts. In my DSG car, when downshift is anticipated, the gearbox selects a lower gear on the unused gearshaft, which connects that gearshaft to the wheels, speeding it up to match the wheel speed; at the point the downshift happens, one clutch opens, the engine is "blipped" by the transmission to the higher revs needed to match with the lower gear, and the other clutch then closes, connecting engine to wheels with matched speed. Same basic principle as double clutching on a manual gearbox, but done by robot. TrueFarnz (talk) 12:12, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

(N) while parked?
For the VAG DSG, nothing I have read indicates that the clutchpacks are engaged while the car is stationary. In fact, if you let off the gas while it is on a hill, it will roll back while the clutches engage. This needs a citation note or explanation —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.246.185.206 (talk) 05:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

 * I cant speak for all VAG DSG's but the DL501/OB5 Gen 1 fitted in my B8 A4 does keep the Odd clutch set slightly engaged when stopped in drive, the requested pack torque depends on the brake pressure and varies from 5Nm when strongly depressed to 15Nm when lightly pressed, I assume to aid in a smooth takeoff without bogging down the engine or unnecesarily wasting fuel while stopped for long periods. They really do try and make it feel like a torque converter.
 * I've only validated this behaviour while on level ground. My car will hold in place while stopped on a hill via the brakes and then roll back after a small amount of time. Whether the clutches are fully disengaged in this state or are still engaged softly (i.e at the 15Nm takeoff target) is hard to tell due to it being a heavy car and that 15Nm of engine torque is bugger all.
 * I have VCDS (which is how I obtained that 5/15Nm torque value) however my DSG is now tuned so the behaviour is likely non standard, so someone else with an unmodified DL501 Gen 1 and VCDS would have to validate that. You could likely verify the clutch behaviour (In any DSG) by driving up on a hill and switching between drive and neutral, getting on and off brakes while watching the instantaneous fuel usage readout.
 * Regardless, for this specific transmission, while stopped (on level ground) for long periods of time, shifting to neutral will save fuel and clutch wear. 58.167.139.219 (talk) 14:24, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Removing the coasting advantage
I took out the advantage that said Because I thought that
 * Both clutches can disengage when travelling downhill, allowing the car to coast
 * 1) It is dangerous to coast down a hill, in case you need engine fcontrol
 * 2) It saves fuel to just ride the hill with the wheels keeping the engine spinning as opposed to pumping more fuel to get it to stay at idle when disengaged with the wheels.
 * 3) Manuals and autos can do it too. (Neutral anyone?) OMGsplosion 23:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

And yet the owner's manual edition 05.2014 page 167 for my 2014 Polo (7-speed DSG) indicates this:

"Coasting with the dual clutch gearbox DSG

In coasting mode, the momentum of the vehicle can be used to save fuel in conjunction with a foresighted driving style. The engine is de-clutched and no longer brakes the vehicle - the vehicle can roll out over a longer distance.

Switch-on condition: the selector must be in position D.

Triggering coasting

Remove foot from accelerator pedal. The engine will be disengaged and run in freewheel mode. The vehicle rolls without the braking effect from the engine.

Canceling coasting mode

Press the brake pedal briefly or pull the left hand paddle (-) towards the steering wheel."

Now, in practice I can't verify this actually happens as the engine rpms are very low anyway in 7th gear, but it certainly downshifts when you tap the brake pedal. 122.58.31.245 (talk) 00:43, 20 January 2015 (UTC)KiwiME122.58.31.245 (talk) 00:43, 20 January 2015 (UTC) 20/01/2015

 * Perhaps the article needs to be edited to clarify the behaviour in regards to specific transmissions. The DL501 will not disengage the clutches unless in neutral so engine brakes at all time. 58.167.139.219 (talk) 14:51, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Added another disadvantage pertaining to engine modding
Because of car/engine modding/tuning popularity today, thought it would be a worthy edition for those interested. It is even pointed out and referenced in the Audi TT review in the external links. Here's how I quoted it. "'From car/engine modding perspective, the ability of the transmission handle extra power (ex upgraded turbocharger) is very questionable'" This statement is almost guarenteed to be untrue. Companies such as HPA are now using DSG transmissions in their high performance VW projects, pushing >600hp through a nearly unmodified transmission. For example, here is a current project car, the Jetta R-GT at 550hp with a DSG transmission. http://www.hpamotorsports.com/projects_finished_rgt-jetta.htm 142.161.255.36 (talk) 21:12, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Not sure if it is worded well enough. But anyone with better way of quoting it....suggestions are welcome.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.36.254 (talk) 06:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Advantage "sporty" not a valid point as an advantage
The usage of such a wording is nothing more then an opinionated point, and does little to really describe the "mechanical" and operational advantage of DSG. Plus the usage of VW's press release cite sounds nothing more then just promotional material, which can be considered bias. And besides what type of transmission certain people consider "sporty" can vary from individual to individual. Example there are many car enthusiast whom may consider a traditional manual transmission to be very sporty due the amount of control they have over their vehicle. Such a point does not have a place in what is to be an unbias POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fsdude77 (talk • contribs) 05:47, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Re: Merge with Twin-Shift Gearbox
Against - DSG is notable on its own, and the amount of information on it is non-trivial. There's simply no point in merging it with another article, regardless of how related its subject is. 24.87.161.50 (talk) 03:15, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Agreed - DSG is a unique piece of engineering. Do NOT merge! -- Teutonic Tamer 10:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

new 'S tronic' info from Audi press release-- Q5 will be first vehicle
The following info should be added to the DSG wiki entry:

Originally developed to work with transversely mounted units, and so initially restricted to the TT and the A3, the latest generation of S tronic can now extend its reach upwards to the A4, A5, Q5 and many other Audi models whose engines are mounted ‘lengthways’.

In its latest form the famously quick and slick gearbox, developed exclusively by Audi, offers the existing transmission’s familiar Drive, Sport and ‘Manual’ modes, the latter upgrading from six to seven fixed ratios, and boasts a higher torque threshold of 550Nm. This impressive capacity means that it is theoretically compatible with a wide spectrum of sports models, including the majority of the V8 and V10-powered performance flagships and the high performance TDI models.

The formidable outputs produced by these cars will be handled by two multi-plate clutches – one controlling the odd gears 1, 3, 5 and 7 and the other the even 2, 4, 6 and reverse. Both transmission elements are continuously active, but only one is powered by the engine at any one time. This means that when the driver accelerates in third gear, for example, fourth is already pre-engaged by the second transmission element. The switching process takes place in mere hundredths of a second as the clutch shifts – while one is opening, the other closes, so changes are remarkably swift and the power flow is never interrupted.

The new seven-speed S tronic has also been designed to work in conjunction with the latest generation quattro four-wheel-drive system with asymmetric-dynamic distribution, so in normal conditions 40 per cent of the power is channelled from the drive shaft to the front axle differential and 60 per cent to the rear, resulting in optimum handling poise.

Twenty three years ago Audi fielded its first dual-clutch transmission in the 476PS Sport quattro S1 rally car piloted by Walter Rohrl and Christian Geistdorfer, and since its transfer to the road in 2003 as the Direct Shift Gearbox or DSG over 188,000 examples have been installed worldwide. The latest version, with its dramatically greater scope for application across the Audi range, will make its debut in UK-bound Audi models in late 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockreid (talk • contribs) 19:16, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

 * That lot looks just like an official Audi press release - so why didn't the OP post the link? -- Teutonic Tamer 10:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Porsche DoppelKupplung
I'm under the impression that the designation DSG is a Volkswagen trademark and that the PDK was developed independently of DSG. If these impressions are correct, Wikipedia should not mention PDK in this article, much less have PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplungs) redirect here. --anon.141.157.220.2 (talk) 23:34, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's an article that reports PDK was developed by Porsche and ZF. --anon. (same as above) 68.161.201.118 (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Here is another article that justifies removing the mention of PDK from this Wikipedia article. It says, "PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplung, or double clutch) [is] an automated manual seven-speed, similar in concept to Audi's DSG but developed independently during six years with transmission manufacturer ZF." --anon. (same as above) 68.161.199.41 (talk)
 * Porsche Doppelkupplung is the correct name, not kupplungs —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metallion (talk • contribs) 12:06, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've corrected the heading of this section of the talk page. Someone should redirect PDK (Porsche_Doppelkupplungs) to PDK (Porsche_Doppelkupplung) (which currently doesn't exist), if I can't figure out how to do it myself. --anon. 68.161.199.41 (talk) 17:40, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I put in a request for a redirect, and now both redirect to dual clutch transmission. However, if and when PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplung) gets an article of its own, the redirect of PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplungs) should be edited to point to that. --anon. (same as above) 141.149.54.135 (talk) 22:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

First dual clutch gearbox-equipped car?
I had intended to fill this point in the list of automotive superlatives by checking the first DSG model in this article, but it doesn't mention it anywhere. Which road car was the first to receive one of these double-clutch gearboxes? --NaBUru38 (talk) 23:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

 * I personally don't know for sure, but I would hazard a guess at either the Golf Mk4 R32 (German market only), or the original Audi TT. Hope that gives you some leads.  78.32.143.113 (talk) 20:03, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

S mode downshift
According to the 2009 TSI DSG GTI manual (USA), there is no engine braking when the transmission is in S mode. The only engine braking available is on manual mode. Roytoy (talk) 03:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

 * The English language Wikipedia covers more than just the USA, and the DSG has engine braking in ALL modes! 78.32.143.113 (talk) 20:00, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Brake auto engage
I have noticed that when the clutches are fully disengaged on a incline and the car rolls back, the brake automatically engages and then the transmission "bites" to stop the rolling. It is hard to explain without actually experiencing it. It seems to me like the natural expected thing one would to if a manual car started rolling. Of course with the DSG you don't have a clutch pedal and you can not "ease it in" on a hill so this feature is very helpful because it gives ample time to move the foot from the brake pedal to the accelerator pedal.

I wish I had more technical or on paper data than first hand experience. It is no where listed on the manual. Roytoy (talk) 03:14, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

 * It's called "Hill Hold Assist" (HHA). It is, in fact, described in the owner's manual.  VAG has since added this feature to traditional (i.e. clutch-pedal) manual transmissions as well. 74.210.23.143 (talk) 17:18, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Unfounded "disadvantages".
I removed a few of the disadvantages because they were either opinion, weren't verifiable, and/or poorly worded.

One was some nonsense about "maximal accleration uphill" and mere opinion/rant about the kickdown switch. It's very easy to argue the kickdown switch is desireable. These are both opinions however not facts for the wiki.

Another, a mention of the torque limit which has already been refuted (with evidence) on the talk page.

The other was the cost, which also had no citiation. It may be expensive to manufacture (no evidence was given though) however all the consumer knows is the price they pay for it. Given the cost of the DSG (FWD) is not much different than that of a traditional (torque converter) automatic on similar other cars, the DSG is not something that adds an extrodinary premium to the price of a vehicle. 74.210.23.143 (talk) 17:47, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Mine failed twice
Mine failed twice. 2007 Jetta. Perhaps I had an early version of course. I do not recommend. --81.164.160.148 (talk) 18:49, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I retract this statement. Turns out that the second time, 2007 Jetta popped a spark plug following an ignition coil failure. Nothing to do with the DSG box at all --81.164.160.148 (talk) 18:32, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. This was a difficult one. The last discussions seem to favor a merge which is not without problems. But there are problems with the proposed rename of this article. I think this needs to be worked out by the editors involved. Maybe a partial merge and a rewrite of this article with a move to a more VW centric name to follow? In any case more discussions here and likely some editing. Once it looks like a consensus is present, then either do the move or return to RM. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:43, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Direct-Shift Gearbox → Direct-shift gearbox – Relisted. Seems like the consensus is for a merge. Vegaswikian (talk) 07:10, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Per WP:MOSCAPS ("Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization") and WP:TITLE, this is a generic, common term, not a propriety or commercial term, so the article title should be downcased. In addition, WP:MOSCAPS says that a compound item should not be upper-cased just because it is abbreviated with caps. Lowercase will match the formatting of related article titles. Tony  (talk)  14:04, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 *  Support – commonly lowercase in sources, so should be in WP. Dicklyon (talk) 06:50, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. Obvious case. Jenks24 (talk) 18:27, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose: this article appears to be specifically about VW Group dual-clutch transmissions. I believe VW Group coined the term "Direct Shift Gearbox" (DSG) (see, for instance here), though I'm not sure if they have registered it as a trademark. I'm not aware of any other manufacturers using the same name. There is another article about dual-clutch transmissions in general, so it would be confusing to have two different articles apparently dealing with the same general topic, IMHO. Regards, Letdorf (talk) 21:16, 5 March 2012 (UTC).

 * Weak oppose, per Letdorf
 * If this is to be renamed, and to be renamed away from a proprietary brandname (which probably implies capitalisation) then a better target would be Double clutch transmission or similar. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:20, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It was "initially licensed" to Volkswagen. I presume "dual clutch" and "multiple-shaft manual gearbox" were proprietary, too, but they're (correctly) downcased in the article (well, inconsistently for the first, I see), and our article on the topic is downcased, too, despite the fact that it was licenced to/from Porsche (language is unclear). The direct-shift gearbox. We could go the full way and upcase "clutch pedal" and even "clutch", since they were proprietary when first developed. Where would it stop? Tony   (talk)  06:50, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Comment: I've just checked the European OHIM trademark database, and a trademark registration for "Direct Shift Gearbox" was applied for by Volkswagen AG in 2002, although its current status is "application withdrawn". MOS:TM states that trademarks should be capitalized as per proper names. I very much doubt anyone has tried to trademark "Clutch Pedal"! Regards, Letdorf (talk) 19:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC).
 * Thank you for confirming that they withdrew their attempt to trademark this generic term. I copyeditted per your suggest, that and the Clutch and other stuff.  Dicklyon (talk) 20:32, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I think you misunderstood - the common generic term in use appears to be "dual-clutch transmission". Is there any evidence that DSG is used generically outside of VW Group? Letdorf (talk) 21:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC).
 * If the topic really is the same as dual-clutch transmission, then I agree a merge is in order. Dicklyon (talk) 20:37, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Dick's/Andy's suggestion to merge sounds good. Can anyone confirm the proposed basis for this? Tony   (talk)  07:46, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there any significant technical difference between the two?
 * If not, then I suggest merging both to Dual clutch transmission, with Dual clutch transmission as a section within that, solely on Volks' development and commercial use of it. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:11, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem with merging this article with Dual clutch transmission is that unless the content of this article is edited down massively in the merge, then there will be undue weight on VW Group's DSG systems in the Dual clutch transmission article. Letdorf (talk) 21:42, 7 March 2012 (UTC).
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Singapore recall
In the Malaysia section, the page says '13 days after the Singapore recall', but there is no mention anywhere of a Singapore recall! Either describe it or remove the mention please.

Move or delete the "Operational introduction" section
The section Direct-shift gearbox has two major problems:

 * It is not specific to DSG, but is a general overview of how all dual-clutch transmissions work
 * Some of it doesn't make any sense. At the start of the subsection for "D", it says:
 * The transmission's reverse gear is selected on the first shaft K1, and the outer clutch K2 engages at the start of the 'bite point'. At the same time, on the alternate gear shaft, the reverse gear clutch K1 is also selected (pre-selected), as the gearbox doesn't know whether the driver wants to go forward or reverse.
 * That's nonsense. If you just put the car in "D", how can it not know if you want to go forwards or reverse?
 * It also says that it accelerates in second gear unless you accelerate hard in which case it decides to downshift to first. I'm not sure this is correct, and in any case it contradicts statements later that talk about deciding when/whether to shift into second gear.

 * that is, the DSG will "learn" how the user drives the car, and will progressively tailor the shift points accordingly to suit the habits of the driver.

 * It's marked as citation-needed, but it's just outright wrong. There's no learning behaviour, especially with the aforementioned fuzzy logic. - Bananu7 (talk) 14:20, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Gonna take some guesses as to what it meant if OP wanted to clarify,
 * On the issue of kickdown, I cant see how this is any different to most transmissions. The stock shift points for many DSGs does lead to very early 1-->2 shifts (for the DL501 its somewhere around 15kmh) but this obviously is not DSG specific and is done for smoothness. "If you mash the throttle it will pick the lowest gear possible" is just obvious.
 * Maybe what it is refering to is how the 2-->1 shift only occurs at 2-3kmh so if you come to an almost (but not quite) complete stop, the transmission will stay in 2nd to avoid the rough 2-->1-->2 shift (it really tries to go into 2nd as early as possible and not go back into 1st unless required, it doesnt seem to like 1st gear), and if you mash the throttle while in a clutch slip condition in 2nd (starting from a crawl) ~<15kmh it will slam you very ungracefully into 1st. Perhaps this reluctance to shift back into 1st except for complete stops is what the comment refers too.
 * And perhaps the remark about "learning" is refering to the continual adaptation as the clutches wear and the required pressure for the bite point changes. I guess this can be seen as "tailoring" as the bite point adapation can become higher than required after a lot of hard driving leading to more agressive shifting and can require re-learning, this however has nothing to do with the shift points. Over the years ive driven my DSG A4, being on my 3rd set of clutch packs (Thanks mech unit problems) before I tuned the box it would always shift at the exact same speed into every gear, every time, despite me thrashing it.
 * All of my info is pertaining to the Gen 1 DL501 that I own so the particular behaviour may not be relevant to all DSG's however ive driven a few DSGs and they all seem to behave like this, furthermore if the behaviour is model specific that requires clarification. 58.167.139.219 (talk) 14:47, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

I suggest moving move of this section to Dual-clutch transmission, which is lacking such a description. Whatever remains on this page should be pared down to Volkswagen-specific info, such as "S" and manual modes. --Bigpeteb (talk) 20:34, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

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Pto
Can the part about the power take off be changed to something a bit more in line with what it is. A PTO is not what that output does as such. A PTO is used to power external power tools such as bench saws found on some older land rovers for example.

I think it should be more in line to use a term such as output pinion/shaft for the rear wheels on a four wheel drive car. Tanis8472 (talk) 14:32, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Direct-shift gearbox


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User talk:CTanguy~enwiki

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title: User talk:CTanguy~enwiki


text:
Talk:Yokohama

Move from Yokohama, Kanagawa to Yokohama
Please do not discuss here. The issue involves many cities and should be discussed in a central location, Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). Fg2 20:47, August 30, 2005 (UTC)
 * This page has been moved by Francs2000 --Lox (t,c) 20:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

largest incorporated city?
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.161.33.117 (talk) 17:05, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Pop culture
What? No mention of the popular 1941 song "Goodbye Mama, I'm Off to Yokohama"? Brutannica 19:07, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The largest port is not Yokohama Harbor in Japan
The largest port is Chiba Harbor in Japan. The port which is the busiest in Japan is Nagoya Harbor. By before 1995, Kobe Harbor was the port which was the largest and the busiest in Japan. In any case it is not Yokohama Harbor.--Dosorz 02:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Japanese city article naming debate
Please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). --Polaron | Talk 08:25, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Don't add conference information
Recently, details on an upcoming "Esperanto" conference have been persistently added to the Yokohama article, due to the fact that the event will take place in Yokohama. While possibly interesting to Esperanto hobbyists, this is irrelevant to an article about Yokohama proper. Anyone interested in Esperanto conferences can find the information easily on the Esperanto page. Please don't add it again. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hkstar (talk • contribs) 13:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Firestorm?
I have read that the 1923 eartquake generated a firestorm. I will check my sources and if I can find confirmation I will add to both Firestorm and Yokohama. Seniorsag 18:07, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Someone shoved the whole article under a section titled HI SAORI! 71.226.81.249 20:21, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

pls
i have a project i nead general information about yokohama and china and japan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.198.28.36 (talk) 09:06, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 13:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "g2008" :
 * Adisa, Banji. "Japan to promote Africa's growth at Tokyo confab," Guardian  (Lagos). March 25, 2008.
 * [see above]

Diversity of population

 * Yokohama is also one of the very few cities in Japan with a diverse population

I flagged that with "dubious."

I think most if not all the cities have diverse populations, although it's quite possible that the percentage who'd normally be considered Japanese varies considerably among the cities. Tama1988 (talk) 11:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree completely. Yokohama does, however, have the image or reputation of being a very diverse city, due probably in large part to its history as a treaty port and the prominence of Chinatown and Motomachi/Yamate. I have to say, in my experience living there, I found Yokohama to feel far more Japanese, i.e. far less overrun with foreigners than many parts of Tokyo. But as for actual demographic numbers of what percentage of the population is of what ethnic/national background, I have no idea. LordAmeth (talk) 12:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

TICAD info removed to talk page
I'd feel bad deleting this interesting and cited information entirely, so I'm moving it here. While it was quite an experience to be in Yokohama, and in the Pacifico Center where the conference was held, during TICAD IV, it's not that important to the overall topic of all that is Yokohama.

LordAmeth (talk) 12:36, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Wiki Paragraph
This article states: "Yokohama's foreign population of nearly 75,000 includes Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, and Brazilians.[3] Among the attractions are festivals and events.[4]" While no doubt the 75,000 Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, and Brazilians make for a festive and eventful atmosphere in Yokohama (although one has to believe that these aren't the only foreign nationalities in the city), it is unlikely that is what the author of this paragraph had in mind. Generally a paragraph has some sort of unifying theme, something that its constituent sentences are trying to collectively say. That is, at least, what writers of US English strive to do, but maybe things are different in UK English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.61.141 (talk) 17:47, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Grammar?
This is in the opening paragraphs, the second:

 * excluding Mainland China as cities there are nonstandard

I do not understand this sentence. There+are+(adjective)? Please clarify or rewrite this sentence (or several) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.91.136 (talk • contribs) 04:29, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

 * Apart from a missing comma, the grammar of the sentence was not particularly problematic, but I have removed it as a rather vague and unsourced claim. --DAJF (talk) 01:47, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

 * I still don't understand. "There are nonstandard...."? Nonstandard what? Surely this is problematic grammar, unless I'm missing the meaning here. There are red, there are blue, there are big, there are small---what does that possibly mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.91.136 (talk • contribs) 05:00, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

 * The missing comma may be causing you confusion, but it should read: "...excluding Mainland China, as cities there are nonstandard". "There" means "in China". Anyway, it's moot now, as the sentence has been removed. --DAJF (talk) 05:13, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

 * I finally understand. It strikes me as informal phrasing, which may have added to my confusion. Thanks.

Timeline of Yokohama
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content! Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 12:19, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Yokohama. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131217070238/http://www.welcome.city.yokohama.jp:80/eng/tourism/mame/a1000.html to http://www.welcome.city.yokohama.jp/eng/tourism/mame/a1000.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090106153156/http://www.learnjapaneselanguage.co.uk:80/articles/15/things-to-do-in-the-city-of-yokohama.php to http://www.learnjapaneselanguage.co.uk/articles/15/things-to-do-in-the-city-of-yokohama.php

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Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 02:30, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Yokohama. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20081028195429/http://jpimg.digital.archives.go.jp:80/jpg_prg/jgmWeb.dll?TmpFileDisp4?si=0&md=0&ql=10&env=jpeg2k_images/ezu/kaigan_jissokuzu/028_yokohama_e.env&l=9&cy=5581&cx=8091&dy=400&dx=600&i=lossy/kouseisai/ezu/kaigan_jissokuzu/t77o_1_1_28.jp2&file=temp_kuniezu_e.html to http://jpimg.digital.archives.go.jp/jpg_prg/jgmWeb.dll?TmpFileDisp4?si=0&md=0&ql=10&env=jpeg2k_images/ezu/kaigan_jissokuzu/028_yokohama_e.env&l=9&cy=5581&cx=8091&dy=400&dx=600&i=lossy/kouseisai/ezu/kaigan_jissokuzu/t77o_1_1_28.jp2&file=temp_kuniezu_e.html

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Vaccines in Yokohama
According to this: https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/to-vaccinate-or-not-to-vaccinate-searching-for-a-verdict-in-the-vaccination-debate/

"A (mandatory) MMR vaccine hasn't been administered in Yokohama since 1993."

Is that possible accurate? If so, is that worth including in the cities page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.217.110.84 (talk) 23:52, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

 * I checked the source provided for that, Honda, H, et al. “No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study.” via J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2005. In the city of Yokohama, children are vaccinated for measles, mumps, and rubella in three separate vaccines a few days apart. I had to read the entire article to understand what was being conveyed by that statement, as I was curious too! Prior to 1993, children received the combined M(easles)M(umps)R(ubella) MMR vaccine as in most other parts of the world. So this isn't a big distinction, as they ARE vaccinated for all three childhood diseases, but not on the same day. I don't think that warrants mention in the article.--FeralOink (talk) 20:12, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Economy of Yokohama
Hello, just a question for those able to read Japanese. In the 'economy' section, it's said that Yokohama produces 13 billion ¥. I find it really low, Yokohama is not really a small city, and it's compared to Hungary and New Zealand. Would it be 13 trillion? I can't do better than go Google Translate on the source and I'm not sure if I want to trust it with numbers. Thanks. Touhara (talk) 13:17, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Yokohama