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Piano Concerto (Ligeti)

The Concerto for Piano and Orchestra by György Ligeti is a five-movement piano concerto. Ligeti wrote:

"I present my artistic credo in the Piano Concerto: I demonstrate my independence from criteria of the traditional avantgarde, as well as the fashionable postmodernism. Musical illusions which I consider to be also so important are not a goal in itself for me, but a foundation for my aesthetical attitude. I prefer musical forms which have a more object-like than processual character. Music as "frozen" time, as an object in imaginary space evoked by music in our imagination, as a creation which really develops in time, but in imagination it exists simultaneously in all its moments. The spell of time, the enduring its passing by, closing it in a moment of the present is my main intention as a composer."

It is dedicated to the American conductor Mario di Bonaventura who premiered the work.

History
Initial sketches of the Concerto began in 1980, but it was not until 1985 that he found a way forward and the work proceeded more quickly. In his book on Ligeti, Richard Steinitz documents the composer's many attempts to begin the piece, noting that it was not until the twenty-first attempt, dated 1985–1986, that he gets the first page right.

The first three movements were premiered in Graz, Austria on October 23, 1986 by pianist Anthony di Bonaventura and the Vienna Philharmonic conducted by Mario di Bonaventura. The following year, Ligeti added another two movements, the fourth and fifth, and the final autograph of the last movement was ready in January 1988. Ligeti wrote that “[a]fter hearing the work twice [in 1986], I came to the conclusion that the third movement is not an adequate finale; my feeling of form demanded continuation, a supplement.” The five-movement concerto was premiered on February 29, 1988 with Anthony di Bonaventura and the Austrian Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Mario di Bonaventura in the Vienna Konzerthaus.

Instrumentation
The concerto is scored for solo piano and an orchestra consisting of flute (doubling piccolo), oboe, clarinet (doubling alto ocarina), bassoon, horn, trumpet, tenor trombone, percussion, and strings. For balance, Ligeti recommends the strings to be 6–8 violin I's, 6–8 violin II's, 4–6 violas, 4–6 cellos, and 3–4 double basses.

The percussion consists of triangle, crotales (in pairs), 2 suspended cymbals (small/normal size), 4 woodblocks, 5 templeblocks, tambourine, snare drum, 3 bongos, 4 tomtoms, bass drum, güiro, castanets, whip, siren whistle, signal whistle, slide whistle, flexatone, chromatic harmonica (Chromonica in C, 270 by Hohner), glockenspiel, and xylophone.

Music
The five movements of the final version are:

1. Vivace molto ritmico e preciso

2. Lento e deserto

3. Vivace cantabile

4. Allegro risoluto

5. Presto luminosoAt the time of its composition, Ligeti was working on his first book of piano études, and the superimposed African rhythms, shifting accents, and changing tempos so characteristic of those pieces can be heard in the concerto as well.

The first movement is similar to the polymetric concept used in Ligeti's first étude, Désordre. Rhythmically complex throughout, it uses two time signatures, and, simultaneously as well as complicated aksak rhythms. In addition, the left and right hands play two complementary six-note scales. The second movement, the only slow movement of the piece, begins without pause (attacca subito). It uses the lamento motif from the last movement of Ligeti's Horn Trio and his sixth piano étude, Automne à Varsovie. This motif also forms the basis of the third movement, another fast movement. According to Ligeti himself, the fourth movement, more fragmentary than the surrounding movements, is inspired by computer-generated images of fractals (like the Julia set and Mandelbrot set) that he saw. The fifth movement, similar to the first, uses three related time signatures simultaneously.

title: Piano Concerto (Ligeti)


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File:Putsthenextstep.jpg

Summary
Album cover for People Under The Stairs' first LP, The Next Step.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: File:Putsthenextstep.jpg


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Star Wars: The New Droid Army

Star Wars: The New Droid Army is a 2002 action video game developed by Helixe and published by THQ for the Game Boy Advance. The game features Anakin Skywalker prior to his fall to the dark side and transformation into Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith.

Plot
In the game, Anakin Skywalker is sent to investigate rumors of the Separatists making a new type of droid, superior to other droids and invulnerable to lightsabers. Anakin travels to Tatooine but is hunted down by Aurra Sing and eventually held in the captivity of Jabba the Hutt. Anakin breaks out and is called to Coruscant. There, Anakin chases and defeats a Dark Jedi named Trenox and uncovers Count Dooku's plot to destroy the Jedi Archives. Anakin stops him, but Dooku escapes. Anakin is next sent to Metalorn, where he is to destroy the Cortosis Droid Factory and capture Wat Tambor, the leader of the Techno Union. Anakin completes both objectives but has to face Count Dooku while leaving the factory. Anakin defeats Dooku and moves on.

The plot is an alternative argument for Revenge of the Sith, where Anakin defeats Dooku and ends up as a Jedi hero, saying the following words to Yoda: "I Will Always be here to serve the Jedi, Master Yoda, I Give you my word ... "

Gameplay
The game is presented in an isometric look, to give the feel of a unique 3-D view. There are numerous droids and aliens to fight, which makes for plenty of opportunities to use Anakin's lightsaber to attack or reflect incoming blaster shots. After passing each successive area, new force powers are earned that can aid Anakin later on. There are five such force powers in all, including the dash, jump, and push skills seen in the movies, as well as two others: the ability to heal faster and the ability to remain invisible for extended periods. Just as stamina decreases when Anakin is attacked, his force power also diminishes after every use. Since there are no health or force items to collect, the only ways to recover stamina and regain force power are to either stand still until both indicators are full again, or use the meditation power learned later in the game to recover faster. NPC's are mainly civilians, though there are some exceptions. Clone Troopers make an appearance (more specifically seven of them, in the underbelly of Coruscant) and fight alongside you to help defeat the droids and mercenaries. They don't move, and they can be killed. The only other instance of an NPC dying in this game is civilian workers on Metalorn falling into vats of molten metal.

Reception
The game was met with mixed reception upon release; GameRankings gave it a score of 58.92%, while Metacritic gave it 60 out of 100.

title: Star Wars: The New Droid Army


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cognac Wellerlane

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was to delete the article. --Canderson7 18:23, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Cognac Wellerlane
A classic vanity article. A bit part in an off-Broadway play (I can't help but ask how far off) and a show on a cable channel does not make one notable. Denni ☯ 19:42, 2005 August 27 (UTC)
 * Delete impressive 23 (real) google hits Groeck 19:49, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * But her "hair is a visual phenomenon"! What the heck, delete it.    Paul Klenk 21:09, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Vanity. Steve Casburn 22:47, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


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The Cute Manifesto

The Cute Manifesto is a book by James Kochalka released by Alternative Comics in 2005, containing many of his comics-format essays on the scope and impact of the comics medium, and his views on the importance of cuteness. Much of the material in The Cute Manifesto was collected from Kochalk's own minicomics and other out-of-print comics titles.

The premise of many pieces in the book is that simplicity is desirable in comics and that "craft is the enemy" (which is the title of one of the pieces in the book.) (Beginning in 1996–1997, Kochalka had spirited public debates in print and online with other cartoonists who disagreed with his position.) Kochalka's publisher coyly frames the book as Kochalka's "answer to Dianetics, calling it "a powerful mixture of philosophy and comics that can literally change your life forever. . . . Kochalka tackles all of the big issues… comics and art, birth and death, technology and joy, and everything in between."

The back cover of the book features short quotes from the artists Constantin Brâncuși, Pablo Picasso, James Ensor, Elaine de Kooning, and Odilon Redon on the importance of making art.

Contents

 * 1) “Craft is the Enemy” (text, no pictures)
 * 2) "Craft is Not a Friend" (text, no pictures)
 * 3) "Sunburn" — originally published in 2000
 * 4) "Reinventing Everything" part 1 — originally published in minicomics form
 * 5) "Reinventing Everything" part 2 — originally published in minicomics form
 * 6) "The Cute Manifesto"
 * 7) "The Horrible Truth about Comics" — originally published in 2001
 * 8) "Spelunking for Slippery Cave Fish"

title: The Cute Manifesto


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St. Paul sandwich

The St. Paul sandwich can be found in many Chinese American restaurants in St. Louis, Missouri, as well as in other cities in Missouri, including Columbia, Jefferson City, and Springfield. The sandwich consists of an egg foo young patty (made with mung bean sprouts and minced white onions) served with dill pickle slices, white onion, mayonnaise, and lettuce between two slices of white bread. The St. Paul sandwich also comes in different combinations and specials, such as chicken, pork, shrimp, beef, and other varieties.

Origin
One source has the origin of the St. Paul sandwich dating to the early 1940s, when Chinese restaurants created the sandwich as a unique dish that was in a more familiar sandwich form to appeal to the palates of Midwestern Americans, an early example of fusion cuisine. According to local legend, the St. Paul sandwich was invented by Steven Yuen at Park Chop Suey in Lafayette Square, a neighborhood near downtown St. Louis; Yuen named the sandwich after his hometown of St. Paul, Minnesota.

Food writers James Beard and Evan Jones believed that the Denver or Western sandwich was created by "the many Chinese chefs who cooked for logging camps and railroad gangs in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries" and was probably derived from egg foo young. They think that the early Denver sandwiches had the same ingredients as what were later known as St. Paul sandwiches in St. Louis and a few other Missouri cities.

This sandwich was featured in the PBS documentary Sandwiches That You Will Like in 2003. It was featured in a 2016 book by artist Kelly Pratt, called Stately Sandwiches, as the sandwich chosen to represent the state of Missouri.

Availability
It is usually only available in Chinese restaurants in the St. Louis metropolitan area as well as a select few Chinese American restaurants in outlying regions of Missouri, the owners of which are typically originally from St. Louis.

title: St. Paul sandwich


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User talk:Роман Беккер

HDCT ?
My question : Talk:ICE_(chemotherapy). --Wisdood (talk) 10:15, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

title: User talk:Роман Беккер


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Pekkle

Pekkle (Ahiru no Pekkle) is a fictional character created by Sanrio in 1990. The character is a small white duck who typically wears a blue T-shirt that has the letter P on it. Pekkle is characterized as "good-natured" and "kind," as well as being a singer and dancer. For example, the character takes tap-dancing lessons. Pekkle's birthday is on July 27.

Pekkle appeared in four OVAs in the early 1990s.

title: Pekkle


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User talk:Savvopoulos

Welcome!

Hello, Savvopoulos, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay.

Here are some tips to help you get started:
 * Try our tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
 * Keep the Five Pillars of Wikipedia in mind, and remember to write from a neutral point of view.
 * Sign your posts on talk pages using the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~, or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~.
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

If you have any questions, see the help pages, ask a question at the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome, and good luck!

-- Kirill Lokshin 19:45, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Savvopoulos


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Talk:ATA Martial Arts

Redirects
WTTW (this is pointing to an article on a television station) and WTTF don't go to anything realted to Taekwondo.RJFJR 19:45, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Please remove the word 'oriental' from the page. It is offensive. The correct term is "Asian". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.236.102.138 (talk) 13:22, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Should it be Taekwondo or Tae kwon do? The article uses one and the title uses the other. RJFJR 19:45, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Taekwondo is an English spelling of three Korean syllables. Tae, Kwon, and Do. In Korean, the three syllables make one word/idea. Therefore, the most correct way to spell it is taekwondo. When a Korean says Taekwondo, the emphasize the first syllable tae /teh/. Whether or not is is caplitalized, I do not know. I have very little knowledge of capitalization rules. Hope this helps. NatalieOne 21:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Cannot copyright a martial art form?
How can you copyright a martial arts form? Exactly what law says I cannot watch someone do an ATA form and then mimic the movement in demonstration for others? The closest thing I can find is a copyright on choreography, but a (for example) ballet dance is substantially different from a martial arts pattern. Have they ever brought a successful copyright claim? Mbac 21:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, we need to bring the ATA image into this article. It has A(red) T(blu) A(red) with a white figure kicking through it. P

The following is an attempt at answering the above question by Mbac 21:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC) "The American Taekwondo Association trains and certifies thousands of instructors at over two thousand schools across the United States. ATA forms are protected under US and global copyright laws, and are the traditional basis of rank promotion in Taekwondo."

The terms Songahm, American Taekwondo Association, Karate 4 Kids, Tiny Tigers, and others are all copywrited and to use them without express permission by the person who owns the copyright is breaking the laws protecting the intellectual property of the originator of these labels.

Your question is regarding the Songanm forms. The forms and the exact order of the moves they contain are copyrighted. This means that I cannot present these forms as my own intellectual property - I must credit my source, ATA. ATA has not (and cannot) copyrighted the front kick, high block, or spin kick. These are common knowledge and ATA has no claim to the origination of these moves/techniques.

In normal life terms: A seven year old girl can watch a video of a guy doing an ATA form on YouTube, immitate it, and show it to her parents and friends legally. A college art major is allowed practice his cartooning by immitating mickey mouse and his companions and show his friends and teachers his skill at cartooning. Neither is misrepresenting the works they are immitating. This is similar to making copies of a video that I bought at a local store. I am allowed to copy it for my own use only. Once I start claiming it's mine - selling it, I am going too far. If you are adult age and copy an ATA form you see on a video or at a tournament, you aren't breaking the copyright law. If you then go out and teach it to others claiming you created it, claiming it is not from ATA, or that the form is just a bunch of moves in a random order, then you are breaking copyright law.

If it doesn't make sense yet, think about a melody, your favorite melody by your favorite artist. Mine is Baby Mine from Disney's Dumbo. Now imagine that someone has taken your favorite melody and decided to call it a different name and claiming credit. They have the right to use the notes in your song. They may even use the same intervals (the difference between the notes)as the ones in your favorite song. But, they are not allowed to used the same notes, intervals, and rhythm in the same order and combination as the original composer. That song belongs to its composer until the composer decided to sell it. ATA's forms belong to only their original creator (H.U. Lee) and the people he decides to sell the right to those forms.

Regarding your question about an actual case where ATA has a successful copyright claim, I do not have access to that information and would encourage you to call ATA headquarters and ask them. They might answer the question, I don't know. I hope I have answered this question thoroughly and clearly. If not, please let me know and I will try to be more clear. NatalieOne 21:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

This reads like an ad.
This article is directly from the corporate website. Someone needs to clean this.

I will work to improve the article (less add-like) without adding too much copywrited information about the intricacies of ATA. If you can, please site any parts that sound more like an add that just usefull information. If you tell what is wrong I might be able to fix it. Thanks. NatalieOne 20:05, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

My experience with ATA
My background - My family has been involved with the ATA for several years. I am an instructor (part time) and a black belt.

As someone pointed out, the original article is the 'company line'. The ATA vigorously protects and promotes its intellectual property. The member schools and clubs (smaller, part-time schools) are really franchise operations, and that really captures the essence of my opinions of the ATA, both good and bad.

If I had more time (and skill) I would edit the article with a bit more balance. Lacking that, here are some quick notes.

Pros and cons:

Pro -

Standardized Content – 1000's of schools around the globe, and they all teach the same thing. Your martial arts training will not suffer if you need to change schools. One look at your belt and rank stripes, and your instructor will know exactly what material you are working on. And there are many schools - 3 or 4 in my small city alone.

Challenging Content – ATA rank requirements are more challenging than 'plain old' TKD. We had some non-ATA students transfer in, and they had a lot of catching up to do. Example – 'plain old' TKD white belt form has one hand technique, and no kicks. The ATA white belt for has 2 hand techniques and 2 kicks.

Complete Content – Programs for kids, adults, physically challenged people, with lesson plans, teaching strategies, weapons, etc.

Instructor Certification – Instructors must be trained as teachers, certified, and background checked, not just know the material. (When you walk into 'Joe's Karate Parlor Jujistu Emporium' how do you know what his qualifications are? A neat looking certificate from Grand Master FooFoo?)  That said, some ATA instructors will still rip you off – make you sign long term contracts, or make you retest and repay testing fees at any opportunity.

Well Policed – At ATA events, like tournaments, there is no macho posturing and no fights – unlike some 'open' tournaments. Instructors or members that get in trouble with the law can loose rank and loose schools.

Safe – Equipment and rules for sparring are safer than Olympic style TKD, and you must attain a certain rank before you can spar, and up to that part, you must complete drills that prepare you for sparring, to teach control. I have a small child who is now sparring, and I feel completely at ease. Furthermore, if someone wants to transfer to Olympic style, they usually do very well because ATA rules are more challenging. Some ATA students have performed very well in Olympic style.

Con -

Copyrighted Material – If you leave the ATA, your cannot legally teach the forms, etc.

Equipment Monopoly – To attend or compete in an ATA event, you must wear an ATA provided uniform, ATA sparring equipment.

Some in the leadership are all about making money - There is always some new program or offering from headquarters that are new ways to take money from people.

Neither Pro nor Con -

Costs – Schools are allowed to basically charge what they want. It can be expensive, like other martial arts schools, or next to nothing. Instructors set their fees (with upper end limits set by the ATA). Testing and equipment fees are fixed from that ATA, and instructors are allowed to add a percentage on that and keep the difference. (I teach as part of an after-school program. I don't make a dime, I just like helping kids.)

My personal take on the ATA
I'm an ex-member of the American Taekwondo Association and been with them for ten years (since 1992, quit 2002) earning my first degree black belt in 1996, and 2nd degree with trainee instructor status in 1999.

In response to the previous posting by an "instructor," here's what I think:

Quote: "The ATA white belt form has 2 hand techniques and 2 kicks." NOT exactly true. There are five hand techniques to the white belt form: high block, low block, punch, side block, and knifehand. There are only two kicks: front kick and side kick.

Secondly, there is no true monopoly on uniform and sparring equipment. While many schools obey this monopoly uniform policy including letting children wear uniforms with the lettering on their back, other schools choose not to pay the monopoly and find more affordable options. I've visited a few of these ATA tournaments and people use whichever brand, as long as they have headgear, hand, and foot.

Some other thoughts: I feel that the ATA is just like many other schools to be like a "McDojo" or what I call, a black belt factory. It's easy in the start, but as the ranks get higher, people (especially parents) spend more money investing in something that I feel has no real use in the real world (like who kicks above the waist and especially the head in a real fight?).

Also, why break boards? If you want a reference, watch the first season of the Showtime program called "Penn and Teller B.S." It's just science people!

Lastly... parents, don't bring your children to tournaments around the country to become "World Champion." They should be in school getting a real education with a real degree that is useful in the REAL world. Would you really put the words "World Champion" in your job resume? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Akit (talk • contribs).
 * Maybe some people enjoy it? Are you so against participation in other sports? Baseball, football etcetera are no more useful than what they teach. kaiti-sicle 05:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

 * As a physical therapist or as a personal training I find that having the ATA and the triple crown I hold to be quite powerful. I would suggest the martial arts to a number of clients, and have. Even when I was establishing the business I had write ups in the paper I made sure that the martial arts was mentioned. In general I have and would tell other absolutely list it on your resume. Why wouldn’t you? I had a rougher time getting the triple crown than writing any stinkin 75 pg thesis paper that got me a degree!!! tojac 17:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

"Songahm Taekwondo" section
This section needs some work in a different direction than it is presently heading. I see this section as being more about the philosophy behind Songahm Taekwondo, the Songahm Star, etc. Thoughts? SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Isn't that what it should be about? I am a trainee instructor in ATA and that's what Songahm is based on. That section could be expanded on the differences between the Songahm forms and WTF forms, for example, however, the philosophy is a very important part of Songahm Taekwondo. Just personal opinion, however. Other thoughts?? Progdrummer17 17:37, 12 February 2007

 * That seems to be where I'm thinking. What makes Songahm Taekwondo "Songahm"?  What makes it so?  SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Songahm basically describes the style of taekwondo developed by Eternal Grand Master H.U. Lee and his brothers. Songahm simply means "Pine Tree Temple". Songahm is important to put in this article because it describes the style of taekwondo taught by the ATA, and the ATA, along with its sister organizations (STF, WTTU, etc.), are the only organizations that teach in the Songahm style. So, everything about ATA defines Songahm taekwondo, and vice versa. You probably wouldn't have a wikipedia article about Songahm Taekwondo itself, so that information must be contained here. However, if I have the time, I'll add more information about ATA itself to the current article. Progdrummer17 23:12, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, The translation "Pine Tree Temple" describes how each belt rank, and respective poom-sae (form), represents a stage in the growth of a pine tree from a tiny seed. For example, white belt represents a lone seed without experience, orange belt represents the beginning of a day as the sun rises, etc. Progdrummer17 23:18, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Sparring segments, board breaks
It seems we need more information on these two elements of a student's training. Perhaps we could bundle this with one-steps? SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I am willing and able to add some information about sparring and boardbreaking, but I will not be able to site anything other than my own knowledge as an ATA Certified Instructor, school owner, and high rank black belt. Is that kind of information appropriate for Wikipedia? NatalieOne 20:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Korean Taekwondo Council?
I've never heard of such a phenomenon. Anyone care to explain?? Also, at the 2007 Spring Nationals Tournament in Las Vegas, there was a flag on the wall near the other organizations called the "Asian Traditional Taekwondo Union", different from the WTTU. Anyone care to explain that one??? Progdrummer17 13:26, 06 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Three links come up on Google for "Korean Taekwondo Council". There's Wikipedia, Harman's ATA, and a Yahoo listing that ultimately lists a Karate for Kids school.  No mention from ATA itself, and no good third-party mentions.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 22:21, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

If no information can be found prehaps it should be deleted Coho (talk) 04:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

4th and 5th Degree Testings
This is more for personal information, rather than necessarily to put on the page, but my instructors and I would like to know:

1. Is it true that you have to be a certain age to test for 4th degree black belt? And does anyone know if that age is 17, 18, or something different?

2. Is it true that to test for 5th degree, you must be a school owner who tests at least a certain number of students every 8 week testing cycle? If so, does anyone know what that number might be? Also, does that number increase for each subsequent rank (6th, 7th, 8th?)

Thanks for the help. Progdrummer17 02:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Would ANYONE like to help me out?? I asked this four months ago haha. If you know the answer, please enlighten me.

Thanks again. Progdrummer17 07:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Progdrummer17,

First, If you are an ATA student, ask your instructor - this is the official answer for most questions in ATA. If you have an interest in earning a 4th or 5th degree black belt from ATA, please go to ATAonline.com and find a school in your area. Most instructors would love to schedule a time to speak with you about your martial arts goals and questions.

Second, regarding your questions - There is an age requirement for 4th degree black belt. About 4 years ago it was changed from 21 to 18. Requirements for ranks are set as a baseline for which students may strive. Testing for any rank between Orange and 3rd degree black belt required your instructor's permission. Testing for 4th degree black belt and above require permission from ATA itself. As requirements for high rank testings are frequently being revised, this is not an appropriate place to list the most current version of which I am aware. NatalieOne 19:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your help, NatalieOne. I am currently attending and teaching at an ATA school, but due to complicated circumstances with previous instructors/studios, I am a higher rank that the studio owner and head instructor. I was interested if you had any information about my questions, more for curiosity than anything else. I appreciate your information, however. Thank you! Progdrummer17 21:41, 24 October 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.82.45.231 (talk)

The requirements for 4th & above ranks were changed a few years ago, and may change again in the future. Beyond your midterm and rank tests and holding the 3rd degree rank for at least 3 years, 4th degree previously required you to be a black collar instructor and 21; now you must have a collar of some color with black in it and be 18. 5th degree previously required you to be a school owner for a certain number of years; now there are requirements for you to be a positive influence of a certain number of people for at least 4 years. That positive influence is measured in "leadership points", which are gained by being a school owner or head instructor, judging in tournaments, going to pro-tech camps or leadership camps, guest judging at other schools, etc. Of course, the fastest way to achieve the leadership points is through being a school owner or head instructor, but it's no longer required. All of these things must be certified by headquarters and approved by Grand Master. Tonyhansen (talk) 15:52, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Criticisms Section
Someone keeps deleting the criticisms section outright. Please state what your objection to it is. If It is simply unbalanced, then please make an effort to balance it rather than delete it. There's nothing wrong with having a criticism section per se. Geoffrey Allan Plauche 21:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Note: Deletion of an entire section is not a minor edit. Do not mislabel it as such. Geoffrey Allan Plauche 17:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Now, to get things started, the last sentence in the second paragraph of the Criticisms section is WP:POV and at the very least needs to be rewritten to adhere to WP:NPOV. The first sentence in said paragraph is unsupported and needs a citation. Geoffrey Allan Plauche 17:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

So after reading the WP:POV and the WP:NPOV I would think that the comments, to a degree, do not fall under "criticism" as much as opinion or viewed assumptions. What are the thoughts around that? tojac 21:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

See Also Section
I re-added links to the Wikipedia articles on McDojo and Bullshido. They are there to enlighten readers on what these terms mean, so that they can decide for themselves if the terms apply to the ATA or not. Personally, I earned a 1st degree Black Belt from the ATA in 1997. I have a few criticisms of it, but overall my experience was positive. I think more people should learn martial arts and ATA schools are on average decent places to do this. You largely get out of them what you put into them effort-wise. The people who earn 1st degree Black Belts in two years are the ones who display talent, dedication, and hard work. Those who don't display these traits take longer or never reach black belt. Some schools may be better, some may be worse. There are many franchises and independent schools much like it in terms of how belts are given out. There's no reason for some martial artists who don't attend this kind of school to be snobbish toward it. Geoffrey Allan Plauche 21:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm with you, but McDojo is linked above, thus removed. Bullshido I consider a bit of a stretch.  I was in the ATA from 1989-1992, and I wouldn't describe it as Bullshido.  Additionally, Bullshido is listed in the first section of McDojo.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 17:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Good points. I'm in agreement with their removal then. Geoffrey Allan Plauche 03:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I fortunately can say I have been with the ATA some 15 years now and it is a good tning. Some things are not perfect, what is. I find it interesting that if you go to any of the other martial arts styles on wiki there is no mention of McDojo or any criticisms. Just and observation! User:Tkdkidick 10:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Perhaps more of them should, but the lack isn't grounds for removing the criticism section here. Also, the ATA is not just a martial arts style, it is a franchised organization. The criticisms may not be applicable to all ATA schools, but they may be applicable to varying degrees to a significant number of them. I don't know. What I do know is if you follow those references, you'll find a number of critics. Now, it is a legitimate question to ask whether online forums are a reliable enough source to be used on Wikipedia. Any thoughts on this? Geoffrey Allan Plauche 17:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Actually ATA is NOT a franchised business. That's why it is an association, associated through the style of Songahm. I think a lot of the forums are I hate to say "bitch" forums in general. Not necessarily ATA related but just, why charge "X", why have this many belts or classes. That kind of thing. Online forums are just that people stating there beliefs. No data to back their statements up. From what I have heard. Now if you had an accredited report from some where stating some of these issues. OK, however the terms McDojo is inflammatory to any style or business. I had never even heard the term until I found wiki. I have a friend in another style and he has some of the same issues that ATA parents have. Traveling a lot that stuff. It does come down to the kids and he does it for them. They know no difference. tojac 17:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Okay, maybe not strictly franchised like a fast food chain, but correct me if I am wrong: Don't instructors of ATA schools have to be trained and certified or something? There is a central authority that governs instructor training, establishes rules, sells equipment, and so forth. There is standardization by a central authority. That's not simply a bunch of independent schools who all happen to be teaching the same style of martial arts. In any case, that is all beside the point. The question is: do the references cited for the criticisms meet Wikipedia verifiability standards (WP:Verify)? It would appear that online discussion forums do not. Any objections to this assessment? Geoffrey Allan Plauche 19:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Correct. ATA instructors must be certified to teach.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 20:14, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I understand what you are saying. Even as an associated part of the ATA you can utilize the copyrighted material and not use the ATA name. You do have that choice. However the regions govern themselves. So the seniors "watch" over the certification process for their particular region. Just like any other organization it does fall back on ATA as they are the ones that grant the actually certification. So I would guess. And NO ATA does not sell equipment of any sort. There are a couple of martial arts suppliers you can by from. However World Martial Arts is the only one permitted to use the ATA trade mark, once again, as far as I know. The fact that you say they is a standardization is almost funny, ITF and WTF are so poorly governed it is not even funny. Have you ever tried to get a hold of someone at there headquarters, good luck with that. As Far as I know ATA is the only one that even has standardization. I have been to two different ITF schools in the same town and been taught different material, or altered material. How is that?

As far as the assessment I would guess that les then lets say 2 1/2 % could be called McDojo's. They have some 1500 associated schools/clubs thru out North America. I have only heard complaints on a few. How many have been sited by the BBB? That would be a good source to back this up? I mean If I thought there was an issue I would report it. But is that an issue you can take up with them, I am not sure.tojac 20:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

 * All right, so the ATA doesn't sell equipment itself; it licenses the right to sell equipment with the ATA name to another company. This is quibbling over relatively minor details. As for standardization, you'll notice I only said the ATA was standardized. I said nothing about ITF or WTF. So I don't see what is funny. Now, if you step back from your knee-jerk reactionary defensive mode for a second, why don't you address the issue about Wikipedia references that I raised in my previous post? In case you haven't noticed (and it seems that somehow you haven't), I think my interpretation is favorable to your complaints. To repeat: Anybody have any objections to my interpretion of WP:Verify in relation to the quality of the references provided for the criticisms section? Geoffrey Allan Plauche 23:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I am not sure what to say? I did not and do not feel like it was any type of reaction, just stating what I thought to be the facts. So to the point, I am not sure what you mean by " my interpretation of WP:Verify", I just do not understand what you are trying to say. I am a layman's term kind of guy. tojac 21:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Nearly everything I write, your first and primary reaction has been to take issue with it and nitpick the details while ignoring my main point. If you haven't followed the link yet and read it, perhaps you should try that. Wikipedia has various rules and principles for adding and removing content; the one I linked to is one of them. The question I asked you and anyone else interested in editing this article is this: do the discussion forums used as sources for much of the criticisms section meet Wikipedia's quality standards? If they don't, then it is the burden of whoever wants to keep the criticisms section to find better sources, perhaps official statements by prominent martial artists or items published in newspapers, etc. By the way, to sign your name with a date stamp just type four ~ in a row after your post. Wikipedia will fill it in for you. Geoffrey Allan Plauche 02:11, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

 * “your first and primary reaction has been to take issue with it” don’t you take issue with the things you love. Any who, your point is now clear. I will think about it the fact does it or does it not meet Wiki standards. I wont jump the gun at the moment. I will calmly ponder the thought! tojac 21:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

 * True, but don't let it blind you to everything else! :o) I think eliminated the section on WP:Verify grounds is preferable to simply trying to delete it over and over again until the critics get tired of reverting it. If it can be removed on such grounds, the burden of proof is shifted to the critics who want to put it back in. They'll have to find higher quality sources. And if they do, you or someone else can work on balancing the section out. Geoffrey Allan Plauche 04:00, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

tiger/bear cubs
I was going to add a section similar to this to the belt description section. But I couldn't find a reference other than on individual school descriptions.

Tiger Cubs, Bear Cubs
Some schools separate very young students out from the Tiny Tigers with a separate program that emphasizes gross motor skills and character development. Often these schools use colored stripes on a white belt to denote progression in skills development. The colors of the stripes match the progression through the normal colored belt sequence: orange stripe, yellow stripe, camouflage stripe, etc. When a child is old enough, they will usually move into the regular Tiny Tiger program as an orange belt.

Tonyhansen (talk) 15:03, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Separate Songahm content and ATA content
It is my opinion that the content describing the Songahm Taekwondo style (philosophy, rank system, forms, sparring, ec) should be separated from the rest of the article, that focuses on the specifics of ATA organization.

For instance, I am a Songahm student from Europe, thus belonging to WTTU, and as such, neither I or any of my mates and instructors actually wear any ATA patches on the do bohk. When we say our pledge at the begin and end of class, we don't refer to ATA, and between the Korean and National flags is the WTTU symbol. Our relationship with ATA is, AFAIK, strictly on the organizational level, and I only got to know about it through talks with my instructor, as otherwise, I wouldn't know it even existed so far.

It might also be confusing for someone searching for Songahm Taekwondo in wikipedia to not find an article with that title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.196.251 (talk • contribs)

 * While it is true that the organization treats their three brands separately, they are still the same organization, and many concepts overlap a lot. Thus I would be inclined to merge them back together (and did) with a brief description of the other brands unless it's radically different.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

 * (by the original poster) I can accept that the WTTU and STF are included in the same article as ATA's, although I do think that the separation would benefit the growth of the information available about each of the associations. This however is much more unlikely to happen because of the way the ATA article is right now, too long and too broad (IMHO), so people are less inclined to make it even longer by adding information to the WTTU and STF sub-sections.
 * As such, also for that matter, I think it would be an improvement to do what I initially suggested, which is to separate the ATA article from the Songahm TKD article, very much in the same way that the football (soccer) article is not inside FIFA's article, and so on. One of the articles is about the sport (which is rich enough to provide an article of it's own), the other is about it's ruling association. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.133.162 (talk) 16:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I have created a Songahm Taekwondo article that redirects to it's section in the ATA article. I have done the same with the WTTU and STF articles previously edited by SchuminWeb. The intention is that people are able to link and search about those topics and finding dedicated articles, that happen to redirect to the ATA article. Hopefully this will eventually lead to the separation of each article with the addition of new rich content. Jitieicreiz (talk) 17:32, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

It would brobably make sense to have one article that explains Songham Taekwondo the martial arts style, and another that describes ATA the business entity, along with its affiliates like STF and WTTU 75.182.68.150 (talk) 12:01, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Grand Master Soon Ho Lee Inauguration Date
It says in ATAOnline's page that Grand Master Soon Ho Lee's "inauguration to the esteemed position of Grand Master of Songahm Taekwondo" took place in June 2002, at ATA's World Championships. Yet, in the article, it says that he's been in that position since 2000, when Haeng Ung Lee died. Which of the dates is correct, or are both correct? Jitieicreiz (talk) 10:11, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

ATA Fees
It would be informative to include a section about ATA fees, excluding specific costs. For beginning students these include:

- noncancelleable 3-year contract - required annual ATA membership fee - testing fees (including 1/2 belt and mid-term fees) - required sparring gear - required weapons - required uniforms (White-Yellow: plain; Orange-Blue: silk-screened; Brown-Recommended Red: embroidered; Black: heavy-weight)

Embroidered black belts (with student's naem and rank) require another 6-month contract period

Unfortunately, I cannot find any information about ATA fees online, nor have I ever seen these requirements in writing. They are not included in the contract terms. They are simply a result of my own experience. Therefore, I cannot add this information to the main page, as it would be considered unverifiable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seekchat (talk • contribs) 04:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

It cost me $84 to test for my Orange belt and $50 for my son to test for his Yellow belt (as of Nov. 2013). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truid (talk • contribs) 02:20, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Individual schools and clubs set their own program costs and lengths, uniform policies, rank graduation schedules, etc. Within certain boundaries set by ATA (ATA approves uniform designs, but schools determine when types of uniforms are available or required of students of different levels. Because of this variation, its not really feasible to list a "price guide" like you want on the international website. 75.182.68.150 (talk) 11:58, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism
I have noticed that this page has been being "vandalized" by individuals who are critical of the ATA system. I have removed the recent “McDojo” comments. There are valid ways for such topics to be included, after discussion on the talk page. This, however was not done. The labels “McDojo” and “Belt Factory” are typically applied to poorly-run martial arts schools in ALL disciplines. These schools are run only to make a profit and do little or no valuable teaching. This label does not apply to the vast majority of ATA schools, and certainly no more so than in any other discipline of martial arts.

 * I was in the ATA from 1989-1992, and have a favorable opinion of the organization from that time. However, the term "McDojo" is currently under discussion (see Articles for deletion/McDojo (2nd nomination)), and so the result of that discussion will have a ripple effect on the use of the term throughout Wikipedia.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 05:30, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Grand Master Richard Reed
i edited the article to reflect upon Richard Reeds newly attained Grand Mastership, but i don't have much information on it 2602:306:374A:2C50:592F:6AD5:AAEC:C37C (talk) 04:45, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

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title: Talk:ATA Martial Arts


text:
User:Savvopoulos

Christos Savvopoulos

Birthday 18-March

WWW http://savvo.goodspace.net

title: User:Savvopoulos


text:
Stephen Butcher (Royal Marine)

Stephen Graham Butcher (2 January 1904 – December 2005) was, at age 101, one of only a few surviving veterans of the First World War in the UK. He joined the Royal Marines Band in 1917, at the age of 13, with the drum master turning "a blind eye to his height and age" (navynews 2004).

On his 100th birthday in January 2004, a party was given for Butcher at the RM Museum in Eastney, Portsmouth. He died at the end of the following year, aged 101.

title: Stephen Butcher (Royal Marine)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bob Style

 This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was to delete the article. --Canderson7 18:40, September 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * The result was changed to no consensus; kept upon appeal by User:Pburka. --Canderson7 01:57, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Bob Style
nn vanity; only a few Google hits found Groeck 19:46, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Sounds like an America Idol wanna-be.    "I won a contest -- look at me!!"  Paul Klenk 19:53, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. His top forty hit means that he satisfies the first WP:MUSIC criterion. Pburka 03:42, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Canal ring

A canal ring is the name given to a series of canals that make a complete loop.

Etymology
There have been canals which formed a ring for more than 200 years, but the term was unknown before the 1960s, when the Inland Waterways Association coined Cheshire Ring as part of its campaign to save the Ashton Canal and Peak Forest Canal from closure.

Working boatmen were concerned with getting from A to B as fast as possible, or for the lowest toll, rather than in visiting more of the system, and what are now known as rings were simply alternative routes to them, but circular routes allow leisure boaters to see twice as much of the system as is possible with an "out and back" cruise. Hire companies are keen to promote their proximity to popular cruising rings.

Since the Cheshire Ring was born, more rings (and variants of them) have been named. The best-known are those that can be completed in one or two weeks, although some three-week rings (such as the Outer Pennine Ring) have been given names, but there are many other unnamed rings.

The Netherlands

 * Ringvaart

England
See also Canals of Great Britain
 * Avon Ring
 * River Avon, River Severn, Worcester and Birmingham Canal and Stratford-upon-Avon Canal
 * Black country ring
 * Staffordshire and Worcestershire Canal, Trent and Mersey Canal, Coventry Canal (Isolated Section), Birmingham and Fazeley Canal, BCN Main Line
 * Cheshire Ring
 * Rochdale Canal, Ashton Canal, Peak Forest Canal, Macclesfield Canal, Trent and Mersey Canal, Bridgewater Canal
 * Droitwich Ring
 * Droitwich Barge Canal, Droitwich Junction Canal, Worcester and Birmingham Canal, River Severn
 * Four Counties Ring
 * Trent and Mersey Canal, Staffordshire and Worcestershire Canal, Shropshire Union Canal, Middlewich Branch, (Wardle Canal)
 * Leicestershire Ring
 * Trent and Mersey Canal, River Soar, Grand Union Canal, Oxford Canal, Coventry Canal, Birmingham and Fazeley Canal, Coventry Canal (isolated section)
 * South Pennine Ring
 * Rochdale Canal, Calder and Hebble Navigation, Huddersfield Broad Canal, Huddersfield Narrow Canal, Ashton Canal
 * North Pennine Ring
 * Rochdale Canal, Calder and Hebble Navigation, Aire and Calder Navigation, Leeds and Liverpool Canal, Bridgewater Canal
 * Outer Pennine Ring (Combines the North and South Pennine rings, omitting the section of the Rochdale canal that they share)
 * Calder and Hebble Navigation, Aire and Calder Navigation, Leeds and Liverpool Canal, Bridgewater Canal, Rochdale Canal, Ashton Canal, Huddersfield Narrow Canal, Huddersfield Broad Canal
 * Stourport Ring
 * River Severn, Staffordshire and Worcestershire Canal, Stourbridge Canal, Dudley Canals, Birmingham Canal Navigations (Netherton Tunnel Branch Canal and Birmingham New Main Line), Worcester and Birmingham Canal
 * The Thames Ring / Great Ring
 * River Thames, Oxford Canal, Grand Union Canal
 * Warwickshire ring
 * Coventry Canal, Oxford Canal, Grand Union Canal, Birmingham and Fazeley Canal

Incompletely navigable: This ring is only possible when the Wilts and Berks Canal is fully restored. This ring is only possible when the Thames and Severn Canal, North Wilts Canal and Wilts and Berks Canal are fully restored. This ring is only possible when the Thames and Severn Canal and the Stroudwater Navigation are fully restored. This ring is only possible when the Montgomery Canal and River Severn are fully restored. This ring is possible only when the Barnsley and Dearne and Dove Canals are fully restored.
 * Wessex Ring
 * River Thames, Kennet and Avon Canal, Wilts and Berks Canal
 * North Thames Ring
 * River Thames, Thames and Severn Canal, North Wilts Canal, Wilts and Berks Canal
 * Cotswolds Ring
 * Thames and Severn Canal, Stroudwater Navigation, Gloucester and Sharpness Canal, River Severn, River Avon (Warwickshire), Stratford-upon-Avon Canal, Grand Union Canal, Oxford Canal, River Thames
 * Severn Ring
 * Montgomery Canal, Llangollen Canal, Shropshire Union Canal, Staffordshire and Worcestershire Canal, River Severn
 * Yorkshire Ring (Currently incomplete)
 * Aire and Calder Navigation, Dearne and Dove Canal, Barnsley Canal, River Don Navigation, New Junction Canal

title: Canal ring


text:
Ellé

The Ellé (Ele) is a river in the region of Brittany, western France. Its source is south of the town Rostrenen, in the south-west of the department Côtes-d'Armor. The Ellé flows southwest through the following départements and towns:

 * Côtes-d'Armor
 * Morbihan: Le Faouët
 * Finistère: Quimperlé

At the town of Quimperlé it is joined by the Isole to form the Laïta that flows into the Atlantic Ocean at Le Pouldu. Combined with the Laïta, the river is 76 km long.

title: Ellé