text:
Grapes of Wrath

Grapes of Wrath may refer to:

Literature

 * A phrase in the Bible's Book of Revelation, chapter 14 verse 19: "The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath."
 * The Grapes of Wrath, a 1901 novel by Mary Harriott Norris
 * The Grapes of Wrath, a 1939 novel by John Steinbeck

Music

 * a phrase from the first stanza of the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" by Julia Ward Howe
 * The Grapes of Wrath (band), a Canadian rock band
 *  The Grapes of Wrath (album), the 1984 album by the band of the same name
 *  Grapes of Wrath (album), a 1983 album by British band Spear of Destiny
 * Grapes of Wrath, a song by The Mission on their 1990 album Carved in Sand.
 * Grapes of Wrath, a song by Weezer on their 2021 album OK Human

Military

 * Operation Grapes of Wrath, a 1996 Israeli military operation in South Lebanon

Movies, TV, theatre, opera

 * "Grapes of Wrath" (Black Books episode), third episode from series one of the 2000 sit-com Black Books
 * The Grapes of Wrath (film), a 1940 film adaptation of the Steinbeck novel directed by John Ford
 * The Grapes of Wrath (play), a 1988 play based on the Steinbeck novel
 * The Grapes of Wrath (opera), an opera based on the Steinbeck novel that premiered in 2007

title: Grapes of Wrath


license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Scyoung121


text:
Sly Bailey

Sylvia Bailey, née Grice (born 24 January 1962), is a former chief executive of Trinity Mirror, the UK's largest newspaper publisher, and a non-executive director of EMI from 2004 to 2007. She was named as one of the "50 Most Powerful Women in Britain" by Management Today. She was also named as one of the top 20 most influential figures in media by MediaGuardian and as one of the top 50 most powerful businesswomen outside the United States by Fortune. She left Trinity Mirror, six months earlier than planned, in June 2012.

Early life
She was educated at St. Saviour's and St. Olave's Grammar School for Girls, in Southwark, south-east London. In 1978 she briefly attended the Italia Conti Academy of Theatre Arts.

Career
Bailey began her career as a make-up artist for Revlon. In 1984 she joined The Guardian newspaper working in advertising sales. Bailey became advertising manager at The Independent newspaper in 1987.

Trinity Mirror
Bailey joined Trinity Mirror as chief executive in February 2003.

On 30 June 2008, Trinity Mirror issued a trading statement forecasting a 10% reduction in anticipated profits, leading to a collapse in the share price to a low of 73.5p, compared to its 12-month high of 557.5p.

The Independent's media columnist Stephen Glover pointed out that the company's market value had slumped from £1.5 bn to £250m, and commented: "... it is difficult to see how Sly Bailey, Trinity Mirror's preposterously well-rewarded chief executive, can remain much longer in her job . . . "

In July 2011 Bailey launched an investigation into editorial controls and procedures at Mirror Group newspapers following allegations of phone hacking. In October 2011, Bailey became the first serving media executive to appear at the Leveson Inquiry.

Late on 3 May 2012 it was announced that Bailey was to leave her post at Trinity Mirror by the end of the year, but she in fact left in mid June. The General Secretary of the National Union of Journalists, Michelle Stanistreet, said of her at the time: "Finally, Sly Bailey is doing the decent thing and leaving the company she has led into monumental decline." Reportedly, she received a £900,000 payoff.

In 2023, in a judgement against Trinity Mirror (now Reach PLC) and in favour of Prince Harry about the phone hacking scandal, judge Timothy Fancourt said that Bailey “knew or – what in law amounts to the same thing – turned a blind eye to it [unlawful information gathering] from about the end of 2006” whilst she was CEO.

Other activities
Sly Bailey has been on the Press Association board since 2003. She was awarded an Honorary Degree from the University of East London in 2005.

title: Sly Bailey


text:
Peter G. Torkildsen

Peter Gerard Torkildsen (born January 28, 1958) is an American Republican Party politician from Massachusetts. He represented the 13th Essex district, including his hometown of Danvers, in the Massachusetts House of Representatives from 1985 to 1991 and represented Massachusetts's 6th congressional district, covering much of Essex County, for two terms in the U.S. House from 1993 to 1997. Torkildsen also served as chair of the Massachusetts Republican Party from 2007 to 2009.

As of 2024, Torkildsen and colleague Peter Blute are the last Republicans from Massachusetts elected to the United States House of Representatives.

Life and career
Torkildsen was born into a Roman Catholic family with ten children in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on January 28, 1958. He attended high school at St. John's Preparatory School in Danvers, Massachusetts and then college at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and then went on to the prestigious John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. Before entering politics, he was a service coordinator for the Visiting Nurse Association of Boston.

Torkildsen served in the Massachusetts House of Representatives from 1985 to 1991. He had a conservative record on fiscal and social issues during his terms in the Massachusetts House and challenged State Senator Paul Cellucci for the Republican nomination for Lt. Governor of Massachusetts in 1990 as an anti-abortion candidate. From 1991 to 1992, Torklidsen was the state's Commissioner of Labor and Industries.

U.S. House of Representatives

He then went on to represent Massachusetts's 6th congressional district for two terms from 1993 until 1997. In Congress, he was conservative on defense spending and fiscal restraint, but was pro-choice on abortion, in particular voting against the 1996 Partial Birth Abortion Ban. During his campaign for Chairman of the Massachusetts Republican Party in 2007, he claimed that he had a problem with the wording of the bill as it excluded an exception for saving the mother's life, and had he been re-elected would have supported a similar bill with the exception. He also supported the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act.

He was narrowly defeated in the presidential-year election of 1996 by Democrat John F. Tierney in a state that voted overwhelmingly for Democratic President Bill Clinton in that year's Presidential election.

Tierney was part of a net eight seat Democratic gain in the House elections that year. Torkildsen challenged Tierney to a rematch in the United States House election, 1998, but Tierney won that contest as well, 55%–43%. Since Torkildsen and Peter I. Blute left Congress in 1997, there have been no Republicans elected to the House of Representatives from Massachusetts.

After political office
Since leaving the House, Torklidsen has returned to working in labor and workforce related areas. From 2001 to 2003, he served as a Commissioner on the Massachusetts Labor Relations Commission. In 2003, he was the Director of Federal, State and Local Workforce Relations for the Massachusetts Department of Workforce Development. Since 2004, he has been the Executive Director of the Massachusetts Workforce Investment Board. Desiring to lead the repair of a Massachusetts Republican Party, Torkildsen announced in December 2006 that he would run in the January 2007 election for State Party Chairman. Torkildsen left the Massachusetts Workforce Investment Board with Gov. Deval Patrick's inauguration.

On January 17, 2007, Torkildsen defeated five opponents in his first ballot election to be chair of the Massachusetts Republican State Committee. Torkildsen received 58% of the vote. In January, 2009, Torkildsen chose not to run for re-election as Chair.

After the 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, Torkildsen was one of 23 former Republican members of Congress to call for the impeachment of President Donald Trump.

title: Peter G. Torkildsen


text:
Category:Angelid dynasty

Articles related to the Angelos dynasty.

title: Category:Angelid dynasty


text:
San Cristóbal Island

San Cristóbal Island (Isla San Cristóbal), also known as Chatham Island, is the easternmost island in the Galápagos archipelago, as well as one of the oldest geologically. It is administratively part of San Cristóbal Canton, Ecuador.

Names
San Cristóbal is Spanish for Saint Christopher, reckoned in Catholicism as the patron saint of sailors.

The English pirate William Ambrosia Cowley named it Dassigney's Island in 1684, later shortened to Dassigney or Dassigny Island, in honor of Philip Dassigny, the member of Bartholomew Sharp's crew who translated the Spanish atlas that saved the captain from being hanged for piracy. The British captain James Colnett renamed it Lord Chatham Island in 1793 after John Pitt, 2nd Earl of Chatham and First Lord of the Admiralty, on the specious claim it had never been previously charted.

History
San Cristobal Island is composed of three or four fused volcanoes, all extinct. It is home to the oldest permanent settlement of the islands and is the island where Darwin first went ashore in 1835. A small lake called El Junco is the only source of fresh water in the islands. The availability of fresh water is what led to the early settlement of San Cristobal. A penal colony was built on San Cristóbal Island in 1880 for prisoners from mainland Ecuador. This later turned into a military base for Ecuador and export center for the island's products including sugar, coffee, cassava, cattle, fish and lime.

In April 1888 USS Albatross (1882), a Navy-crewed research vessel assigned to the United States Fish Commission, made landfall at an abandoned settlement on Charles Island.

Geography
San Cristóbal has an area of 558 km2 and its highest point rises to 730 m. The population is approximately 6000. San Cristóbal is the most fertile island of the archipelago and is the second most populated after Santa Cruz. The capital of the archipelago, Puerto Baquerizo Moreno, lies at the south-western tip of the island.

Air transport
The island is served by San Cristóbal Airport, with daily flights from Quito and Guayaquil.

Ecology
This island hosts frigatebirds, Galápagos sea lions, Galápagos tortoises, blue and red footed boobies, tropicbirds, marine iguanas, dolphins and swallow-tailed gulls. It has been recognised as an Important Bird Area (IBA) by BirdLife International. Its vegetation includes Calandrinia galapagosa, Lecocarpus darwinii, trees such as Lignum vitae, Matazarna. In the waters nearby are sharks, rays, and lobsters.

The largest fresh water lake in the archipelago, Laguna El Junco, is located in a crater in the highlands of San Cristóbal, in the southern half of the island. The lake harbors a large population of birdlife, but reaching the lake requires a short uphill walk. Nearby, La Galapaguera is a breeding station and sanctuary for giant tortoises.

Economy
Most inhabitants of San Cristóbal Island make their living in government, tourism, and fishing. The majority of the residents of San Cristóbal live in the port city of Puerto Baquerizo Moreno, which is the capital of Ecuador′s Galápagos Province. Island tourism sites nearer the town of Puerto Baquerizo Moreno include the Cerro Tijeretas, a nesting colony for frigate birds, and a statue of Charles Darwin, marking the original site where he first disembarked in the Galápagos Islands during the second voyage of HMS Beagle on 16 September 1835. La Loberia, a colony of sea lions, lies about ten minutes by bus from the town.

Local boat tours also take visitors to two popular nearby dive sites. "Kicker Rock" (the Spanish name is "León Dormido") is the remains of a lava cone, now split in two. Isla Lobos ("Sea Lion Island") is also a nesting site for blue-footed boobies.

Climate
San Cristóbal Island has a tropical climate with warm, dry winters and hot, humid summers with more precipitation than in winter.

The following table shows the variation of precipitation in different places of Santa Cruz Island:

title: San Cristóbal Island


text: Category:Laskarid dynasty

title: Category:Laskarid dynasty


text:
CYM

CYM or Cym may refer to:

Organisations

 * Choctaw Youth Movement, a Choctaw nationalist party and grassroots movement in Oklahoma
 * Connolly Youth Movement, an Irish Marxist–Leninist youth group
 * Centre for Young Musicians, London
 * Spilka Ukraïns'koï Molodi (Спілка української молоді), the Ukrainian Youth Association
 * CYM RFC, a Rugby Club in Dublin, Ireland

Standardised codes

 * Cayman Islands, by ISO 3166-1 country code
 * Welsh language or Cymraeg, by ISO 639 language code
 * .cym, an unused top-level Internet domain
 * Chatham Seaplane Base, United States, by IATA airport code

Other uses

 * Cym, the Cymbidium orchid genus
 * CYM, the CMYK color model, in printing

title: CYM


text:
Talk:Keitai Denjū Telefang

TPP
So Twitch Plays Pokemon just started this game, I'm wondering if that is something that should be mentioned in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.20.40.198 (talk) 23:27, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

NPOV
Good God, this article is NPOV as hell. I'll see about fixing that, if no one else does, within the next few days.

Banned
what has been banned telefang or pokemon jade and diamond (bootleg verison)
 * The bootlegged, misleadingly-titled versions, of course. Although, I'll admit that I've never heard of Telefang before until I found it on Wikipedia, and I got the info about the fake Pokemon games being banned from reading about it somewhere (maybe it was already on the article before I edited it...I can't remember).  However, I have personally seen the bootlegged Pokemon Diamond game. ~GMH 06:00, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but have you played it? It's superbly crap. The instances of Engrish are nothing short of hilarious, and the game, oh ho ho what game? If you ever get the chance to pick it up I recommend it for a good laugh. I still havn't worked out what all the many references to curry in the game are about... - Ferret 00:57, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It seems to have been translated from Japanese to another language (poorly) and then translated again to English from that (even more poorly). --4.154.37.52 23:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * As there is a known version of it in some Chinese language, complete with the same blue snake thing on the title screen, that is a distinct possibility. –Typhlosion 14:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd take an informed guess that the blue snake surrounded by Chaos Emerald lookalikes is a rip of Perfect Chaos from Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast. Antisora 16:33, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well i'm glad I got mine before it got banned. --Kid Sonic 19:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Sequel to Telefang
Months ago I looked up a webpage and came across a sequel of Telefang, called Telefang 2 for the GBA. I dunno what this'll be like but I'm guessing it'll just be as weird as the other one...

It's really true. I'll paste the link of this once I find it.

What do you guys think? --Datavi X 11:07, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've found some links through Gewgle that would lead me to believe that the game does indeed exist. Not to mention there's an FAQ/Walktrough on GameFAQs. I sure would looove to play it. *Goes on a ROM hunt.* - Ferret 20:45, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I can confirm that Telefang 2 does, in fact, exist. I have witnessed emulator play of it on multiple occasions and have recently bought myself a copy of it off of eBay.
 * I think that if the information is available, a separate article should be made for Telefang 2, since although it is a sequel, it is still a very different game. —Typhlosion 03:50, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Full name of Telefang 1
It would be Keitai Denjuu Telefang, as refrenced by GameFAQS. 151.204.128.19 04:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

*Puts away mop*
Well I've gone and cleaned up the article, it's no longer the emposing wall of text it once was. I also added a couple pictures. Anyone disagree with taking away the cleanup template? - Ferret 12:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, on another thing - the entire article talks about Telefang in the context of Pokemon. Considering that there is no real connection between the two, that seems unreasonable. I'll clean it myself later if I get a chance. --Calamari 01:29, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, the idea of the game is most definately inspiried by it, and the bootleg translation took on the name. The lines drawn are resonable in this respect, and useful for comparison purposes. Many people know about Pokémon, not many are able to get hold of Telefang. - Ferret 23:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Pokemon Jade redirect
I don't think Pokemon Jade should redirect here any more - there is currently a REAL game called Pokemon Jade, being developed for the Nintendo DS Cynical 22:20, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Do you mean Pokémon Diamond and Pearl? --Philo 10:56, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there's no such game as Jade. :F - Ferret 23:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Only diamond is real...

Your thinking of Pokemon Diamond. and it doesn't redirect here anymore.

Screenshot
It seems more than a little weird to have BOTH screenshots be from a pirated, Engrish-translated version--maybe move the "sedge" screenshot down with the rest of the material on the bootlegs, and add a screenshot from one of the original games (preferrably the GBA version, which is currently barely mentioned at all) in its place. 205.188.116.139 03:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The game apparently is way more popular because of the bootleged versions than because of the game itself.-- I Am Magnus talk  02:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Roms
Is it legal to get Roms of these games, cuz they were never officially released and I hear that means it's legal! Also, I have a ROM of Diamond, but only Jade in Japanese, is there even an English Jade? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.153.204.116 (talk • contribs)
 * I'm pretty sure it's still illegal even if it hasn't been released in your territory (plenty of websites will import), although, with all honesty, I doubt anyone cares at this point in time whether you download the ROM to an obscure Japanese game released on the Game Boy Color.—ウルタプ 01:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, there is an English version of Jade (Jade is the "English" version of Speed after all) but I have never seen a ROM of it online. That's strange, since obviously a ROM was made to copy onto the bootleg carts, and the physical Jade isn't impossible to find so someone could have copied it with a flash cart device but I guess nobody ever bothered. I would guess the ROMs are still considered illegal anyway, as they were pirate games to begin with and I doubt anybody involved with the making of the actual Telefang games would appreciate any kind of distribution of the fakes. RacieB 03:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * With a LOT of patching, it's possible to crudely make a ROM of Jade. It involves making an .ips file from Power to Speed and applying it to Diamond (making it go from Power to Diamond and applying it to Speed won't work for some reason). It works for the most part, though the phone menu screen has garbled text and the title screen is still the ugly Diamond title screen. Other than that, it's playable... and here are a couple of screenshots I whipped up.  TanookiMario257 16:08, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * does anyone ever care if something is illegal anymore?-- Blue-Eyes  Gold Dragon   10:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes. Copyright holders certainly care about copyright law. RacieB (talk) 06:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's very hard to find speed english version(jade). I am searching for 6 years...
 * Whoever you are, there's a way to play it with patching techniques. Read how to do it above. TanookiMario257 (talk) 20:42, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

More info on Diamond and Jade
If you would like more information on these two stupid games, you can go to Trs Rockin.com. Look under the 'Bootleg Merchandise' section once there. Spottedstripe 22:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Erm.. stupid? Also they really don't have actual information on the Diamond/Jade bootlegs besides making fun of the screenshots and complaining how long the intro is (no it's not actually ten minutes long), then a list of fanmail describing people's experiences with these "stupid" games. Honestly that page was one of the main reasons I set my site up, to provide actual information. RacieB 03:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Denjū vs Electric Monsters
After editing some stuff in last night, I was considering replacing all instances of creature/electric monster with Denjū, as that's what they're always referred to in the original games. It's more consistent plus just sounds better imo. None of the Pokémon articles go around calling them pocket monsters even though that's what Pokémon is meant to mean, and likewise Denjū probably shouldn't be referred to as electric monsters outside the bootleg. If nobody has an objection to this, I'll go ahead and do it, I just wanted to mention it here first because it involves changes to the entire article. RacieB 22:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I second the notion, as—lacking an official translation of any sort—the only official term given for them is "Denjuu" (『電獣』). This alone should be enough to merit the change. —Typhlosion 03:50, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Ruzunga?
About a year ago, the article "Ruzunga" was created. Its original revision consisted entirely of the text "RUZUNGA is part of a video game called Pokemon:JADE it was bootlegged into America and was created buy SmileSoft." Based on this initial entry, the article was quickly changed to redirect to the Telefang article. However, in a simple Google search for "Ruzunga," almost the entirety of the results refer to a location in Burundi. (In fact, the only results that don't refer to the Burundi location are the Wikipedia article and its mirrors.) I have taken the liberty of replacing the redirect with a stub about the location in Burundi, but is there any actual location in the game called "Ruzunga?" Should a disambiguation notice be created? —Typhlosion 04:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no such place in the games as far as I know, I completed the Diamond bootleg, plus own the player's guide which includes every location, and haven't come across anything like that in either case. RacieB 09:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Telefang Locations
On a similar subject to the above discussion, would it be worthwhile to make either a new article or a new section discussing the major locations in the Telefang series? —Typhlosion 04:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I suppose I could make a writeup of them later, there are 16 main locations named on the worldmap. I don't know how long would be too long to add to the article but that'd probably be preferable to making a new one, maybe just a summary for each would suffice? e.g. something like "Toronko Village - This is where the game begins and the player meets Musa and obtains their first Denjū. Shigeki must travel to the Toronko Village fountain and convince the sleepy Denjū Netaro to continue carrying water for the village, despite his brother Nejiro's objections." Just a brief description of the major locations and their main plot points, I guess? RacieB 09:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Chaos Emeralds
Do we have a source on this? -- Snip3rNife 11:21, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not whether they actually are or not, it's just what they resemble…the other cover has the Shishigami from Princess Mononoke on it, which seems to suggest they were just using random Japanese things.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 18:26, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Separate article for Telefang 2?
Shouldn't the information on the second pair of Telefang games be moved to another article? They are, after all, quite different.

...Oh wait. I forgot. Wikipedia is trying reduce everything back to stubs. Not much point in making a separate Telefang 2 article, since they'll both become blurbs on a "List of Smilesoft games" article soon enough. —a sarcastic Typhlosion 17:50, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd considered it, but I haven't gotten around to collecting enough information on the sequel, plus the GBC versions are more "notable" since they're mainly known outside of Japan as being "those fake Pokémon games." I was considering a Gachaste! Dino Device article too, since it's an awesome game, but who's heard of it? And the sequel Rocket Company did for that was comparatively terrible... RacieB 23:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And you know Wikipedia and notability. *groan* Toastypk 00:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Torchic was once a featured article. Now it's a stub-quality section of another article.
 * I think this latest trend is ridiculous. After all, Wikipedia is not paper. If there's enough pertinent information for a subject to get its own article, then give it one, damn it! People are going to look for "Torchic," not "List of Pokémon (241-260)." Replacing any set of articles with "List of Blah (Part X)" is a huge mistake. There should be no (Part X) articles at all. And if that makes articles too long, then split them up into separate articles like they should be.
 * ...On the other hand, talk pages tend to become long, rambling, and hard to follow, thereby often quashing attempts to speak up against policy changes.
 * If there's enough information for a Telefang 2 or Gachaste! Dino Device article, then go make it! If Wikipedia is an attempt to create a freely available and editable encyclopedia, then there is no reason to remove useful information from it.
 * Besides, notability is relative. I know little about the history of Vietnam and care little about it. Does that mean I should merge every article listed on Template:History of Vietnam into a single article because it isn't notable? No, that would be silly, wouldn't it? So why do it for other things?
 * Ah, that was good. I needed to get that off of my chest. —Typhlosion 03:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who hates this these stub Pokémon articles. There's almost no information on the Pokémon now it's not even funny. TanookiMario257 23:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You're a saint for saying this Typhlo. But unfortunately, Wikipedia is pretty thick sometimes. Toastypk 14:51, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * But I think Wikipedia thinks that detailed articles on the topic should go in other wikis related to it, for example bulbapedia, a Pokemon wiki. Besides, when people search for something, they don't know exactly which part of the article to find the info they want, or if they are even in the article. Therefore they merge articles for the sake of easier finding of info. But yeah, I agree that the merge of Pokemon into one article like that is not good at all. ~ Milniv ri  ~  13:07, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Manga Info
http://racieb.ggmedia.us/telefang/tele030.html --Kid Sonic 17:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I have info that a manga for this game has been serialized by Kodansha Publishing, Ltd.
 * Yeah, it's a three-issue manga, I haven't got any more information than that though because I haven't gotten copies yet. I really need to get around to that. I also need to add information to the site on the action figures that were made. RacieB 23:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Japanese/Engrish intro screenshot comparsions?
A couple of days ago, I added that the bootleg version has a glitched color palette in the intro in the paragraph talking about the glitches. Today, I made an animated GIF with screenshots comparing the two versions. Here it is: - So anyway, the reason why I brought this up here is because I want to ask: does this image have any place in the article? I'm just curious... TanookiMario257 02:23, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Diamond Box Art
Where did the box art for the fake Diamond go? Can someone tell me why it was gone? It's not like the people who made the box had any rights to Pokémon or Telefang. The only original thing was that stupid snake thing. TanookiMario257 (talk) 13:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

 * So what if youthink its stupid. Anyway, I don't know where it went. --Kid Sonic (talk) 16:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Denjuu name
Fanges' japanese name is supposed to be Fangusu, right? Why is it spelled wrong? Is it spelled wrong to avoid confusing it with me? 59.183.10.233 (talk) 02:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, it's Fangasu (ファンガス), not Fangusu (ファングス) like everybody thinks. I'm not entirely sure why everybody thinks it's that (especially when ガ (ga) doesn't even look like グ (gu)), but it really is Fangasu. I'm guessing the typo originated when the bootleg calls it "Fanges", which made people think it was really meant to be called "Fangs." Then what I THINK happened after that was when someone wrote an FAQ about this game on GameFAQs, in that list of all the Denjuu, he/she listed Fangasu as Fangusu by accident and everybody (including RacieB's fansite) thought it was Fangusu as a result. By the way, Fangasu gets romanized as "Fungus." And no, I didn't figure any of this out myself... I know almost no Japanese...
 * Also, here's a screenshot of it being called Fangasu (ファンガス), which is not edited in any way: - TanookiMario257 (talk) 17:56, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Telefang Power Box Art
I'm curious to why the Telefang box art (on the top right of the article) disappeared. It doesn't make sense, as all other articles for every other game out there has box art in the top right, so why should this game be any different? I don't get it. Isn't box art fair use anyway? TanookiMario257 (talk) 18:08, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The image wasn't given proper license information, so it was deleted.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 19:22, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Well is it possible to add the box art back, as long as it has the information? TanookiMario257 (talk) 03:28, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 04:06, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Publisher
I believe that the publisher was actually Smilesoft. GameFAQs credits Smilesoft as the developer and Natsume as the publisher, but GameFAQs often gets its credentials wrong, because its data is user-submitted and only briefly reviewed for its validity. In the Nintendo Space World 2000 software listing, Smilesoft is indicated as the publisher. 81.103.187.228 (talk) 16:17, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

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Eccleshill, Bradford

Eccleshill is an area, former village, and ward within the City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council in the county of West Yorkshire, England. The ward population of Eccleshill is 17,540, increasing at the 2011 Census to 17,945. Eccleshill is a more or less completely residential urban area with very little open space although there is substantial open land directly to the east.

The origins of the name Eccleshill are uncertain. At the time of the Domesday Book the area was known as Egleshill either meaning 'eagles hill' or perhaps named after a Saxon landlord called Aikel or Eckil—alternatively it could mean Ecclesiastical Hill.

History
In Roman times the Eccleshill area was crossed by two lanes. One lane was along what is now Norman Lane and the other to Apperley Bridge down the road now known as Bank.

After the Norman Conquest the lands of Eccleshill were given to William, Earl of Warren. In 1274 ownership of lands passed to the Sheffields and in 1407 to the Bolling family of Calverley then the Scargills, Saviles, Wyatts, Zouches, Stanhopes, Hirds, and then to Jeremiah Rawson.

In the Middle Ages Eccleshill was shunned by church authorities after a supposed incident in which it is said a preacher or monk was stoned to death on the main road though Eccleshill village. This supposed incident is said to be the reason behind naming the main road 'Stony Lane'. The real explanation may be that either the road was stony or that it led on to Stone Hall.

Eccleshill Hall

In 1713 Eccleshill Hall was built for Dr Stanhope, located to the east of Stony Lane at the site of previous Eccleshill Halls, on what is now Victoria Road. Eccleshill hall was demolished in 1878 and all that remains are parts of stone gateposts embedded in a roadside wall.

Church history
Initially the churches built in Eccleshill were nonconformist. Before 1775 the only place of worship in Eccleshill was The Quaker Meeting House on Tunwell Lane. In 1775 Prospect Chapel also known as Bank Top Chapel a Wesleyan Chapel was constructed on Lands Lane off Norman Lane. In 1776 Methodist John Wesley (1703-1791) preached there. On the opposite side of Norman Lane is Prospect Chapel burial ground, created in 1823. Doctrinal disagreement led to a split and the establishment in 1823 of Salem Independent Chapel. Salem Chapel and Sunday school both now demolished, were built on Dobby Row, an event that was to prompt the renaming of the street to Chapel Street. The Chapel Street chapel was eventually replaced by the Congregational Church on Victoria Road near Harrogate Road, built in 1889. Salem Chapel burial ground remains on Chapel Street. The Congregational Church was demolished in the 1960s and the United Reformed Church, a single storey building built on the site in 1967 and the Congregational Church building was demolished in 1979/80.

A further split at Prospect Chapel had led to the establishment of Eccleshill United Methodist Chapel on the corner of Workhouse fold now named Stewart Close. In 1854 the remaining worshippers of Prospect Chapel built Eccleshill Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in Stony Lane and sold Prospect Chapel. The old Prospect Chapel building had many subsequent uses including as an organ works. When congregations shrank at the Wesleyan Methodist Church on Stony Lane worshippers moved to join the Primitive Methodist Chapel built in 1911 on Norman Lane to become Eccleshill Methodist Church. The Eccleshill Methodist Church has now been demolished and there are plans to replace it with apartments. The Wesleyan Methodist Chapel was sold in 1965 then became the Ukrainian Autocephalic Orthodox Church.

Construction of St. Lukes church was ordered by the Rev William Scoresby, Vicar of Bradford and this was consecrated in 1848. It was designed in a vertical Gothic style with a spire, however, the spire was removed circa 1971 when the stonework began crumbling. The ecclesiastical parish of Eccleshill takes in Greengates, and Apperley Bridge south of the River Aire.

Industrial, commercial and transport history
The quarrying, pottery, spinning and weaving industries have been located in the area for some time but only quarrying remains today.

Wool and mills
Eccleshill has a number of mills. The Old Mill on Victoria Road was a woollen mill built in 1800 but was destroyed by fire in 1816. The present building on the site is dated 1863 although parts of it date back to the early 1800s. On the other side of Victoria Road from the Old Mill is a row of houses and street once known as Dobby Row - a dobby being a type of cloth, a type of loom or part of an early form of weaving loom taking its name from a corruption of the words 'draw boy' - a weaving assistant.

In around 1816 Union Mill on Harrogate Road was constructed for the manufacture of woollens. From 1892 to 1983 John Pilley and Sons owned and operated the mills A further three storey mill building known as Pilley's Mill was added to the south of the site. Union Mills had a serious fire in 1905. In 2019 both mills were demolished and the site cleared to make way for a retail complex.

In the 1838 White's Directory Eccleshill is described as engaged in the manufacture of white woollen cloth. In 1872 Tunwell Mill was built by Messrs Smith and Hutton as a woollen mill near Tun Well (Town Well) directly south of Stony Lane—although today's Tunwell Mills are not the original mill building.

At the north end of Stone Hall Road is a mill variously known as Stone Hall Shed and Whiteley's Mill where worsted was manufactured. Halfway down Stone Hall Road off to the west stood Victoria Mill, a worsted mill. This mill has been demolished and domestic properties now stand on the site.

Moorside Mills was built on Moorside Road in 1875 by John Moore for worsted spinning. In 1919 two floors were added and a clock tower as a war memorial to those who had died in the First World War.

Ownership of the mill changed hands many times and in 1970 the City of Bradford Metropolitan District Council bought the property from Messrs. W. & J. Whitehead to create the Bradford Industrial Museum.

Pottery
In 1837, the Manor Pottery was established by Jeremiah Rawson, lord of the manor on a site east of the Undercliffe Road-Pullan Avenue junction using beds of shale, fireclay and coal at a deep quarry near Bolton Junction at a site now partly occupied by Kents Fitness Gym. There was a rail tunnel under Leeds Road, then known as Pottery Lane, with waggons carrying clay and minerals from the quarry to the pottery on the other side of the road. Manor Pottery produced a salt glazed brown stoneware, household utensils, brown and cream crockery, ornaments, garden vases, busts, and statuettes although these did not bear any distinguishing marks. Although the product stood comparison with other local wares, the local market for pottery was eventually supplied by better and cheaper stoneware from Staffordshire, and by 1867 the pottery had been sold to William Woodhead and production switched over to house bricks, firebricks and sewer pipes. The kilns were shut down in the early 20th century, and in 1921 the chimney was demolished, however the manor house still remains.

Coal pits
There were numerous coal pits in what is now the Thorpe Edge and Ravenscliffe areas of the Eccleshill ward. This coal was required for steam powered machinery and the pottery. Unfortunately the digging of the coal pits caused many local water wells to run dry.

Eccleshill Mechanics' Institute

Eccleshill Mechanics' Institute on Stone Hall Road was built in 1868. Charles Bottomley converted the upper floor of the Eccleshill Mechanics' Institute into a 359-seat picture hall which he named Eccleshill Picture House and then opened in 1911. Shortly after this the cinema was renamed 'Picture Palace' but closed in 1931 never running any 'talkies'. Before construction of the building the institute used to meet in the now demolished school buildings at the western end of Chapel Street on a site now occupied by Eccleshill Victoria Conservative Club.

Shopping
For the last two hundred years the shopping centre for Eccleshill has been Stony Lane and it was here that Henry Sparks, founder of Sparks Bakeries, had his first shop.

Transport history
In 1804 the Dudley Hill to Killinghall turnpike was constructed. Parts of this are now Killinghall Road and Harrogate Road. In 1889 Mill Lane, Town Lane and Town Street were renamed Victoria Road to mark the Golden Jubilee of Queen Victoria that year. The tram service came from central Bradford up Bolton Road then Stone Hall Road to a terminus in front of the Eccleshill Mechanics Institute. The tram service also went along Harrogate road to Greengates but because of the low rail bridge at Eccleshill Station only low profile double decker trams and buses could get under.

The railway and Eccleshill Railway Station
In 1874 the Great Northern Railway opened its Laisterdyke - Shipley branch (the Shipley and Windhill line), a six-mile double track branch line from Quarry Gap junction in Thornbury to Shipley and Windhill railway station, passing Eccleshill, Idle and Thackley railway stations. Eccleshill railway station opened in 1875 with its sidings and coal yard. This was located just north of the rail bridge crossing over Harrogate Road. Only the embankment and abutment of one side of the rail bridge remain. The former Station Hotel on Harrogate Road took its name from its proximity to the railway station. The railway station closed to passengers in 1931 although goods traffic continued on the line until 1964. Subsequently, the line was taken up and the bridge demolished.

The Palladium/Regal cinema
In 1928 Ralph Dickinson created the purpose-built 1,000 seat Palladium Cinema on Norman Lane, opened in 1929. Later the cinema changed ownership and in 1931 the new owner John Lambert altered the name to Regal. In 1958 the cinema closed for refurbishment and updating, and reopened later that year, but closed finally in 1966. Later with the construction of an extra internal floor the building was used as a bingo hall, a snooker hall and then a fitness centre.

Schools history

The school on Fagley Lane was built in 1845. The school in Chapel Street (1875) was declared unsuitable in 1884 and to replace it the Central Board School was built on Victoria Road in 1887 on the site of the old Eccleshill Hall. In 1889 the Central Board School was renamed Hutton School after the chairman of the School Board. The school was attended by world-famous artist David Hockney. After a period as a fitness centre the building was demolished in 2016 to make way for housing.

Geography
Eccleshill is bounded in the east by Pudsey and Fagley Beck— flowing a short distance directly north under the name Carr Beck to meet the River Aire. To the north of Eccleshill is the village of Idle and to the north east is Greengates and in the City of Leeds is Calverley. To the east across Fagley Beck is Pudsey in the City of Leeds and to the south east Bradford Moor. To the south is the ward of Undercliffe and round to the south west Bolton. To the west is Swain House estate and to the north west Idle Moor and Wrose.

Fagley
Fagley is an area to the south-east of Eccleshill ward. The local economy includes a sandstone quarry, and a riding school. Most of the shops including the post office are on Fagley Road running east–west. Fagley no longer has any public houses. The local school is Fagley Primary School and in the east of Fagley is the Fagley Youth and Community Centre. Further east is Fagley Beck and the Leeds Country Way bridle path and the border with Pudsey.

Ravenscliffe
Ravenscliffe is a housing estate in the north-east of Eccleshill. In Ravenscliffe is a sub post office and The Gateway Community and Children's Centre and the Eccleshill Adventure Playground.

Landmarks

At the junction of Stony Lane and Victoria Road by the roadside was the 19th century lock-up and a public urinal, however these have been walled up for some considerable time. The lock-up and urinal are now over-topped by a section of raised stone paved pavement with railings known as 'The Monkey Bridge' overlooking a small triangular area of land at the road junction that was the site of the village stocks.

North of Stony Lane is the former Stoney Lane Quarry now a recreation ground known as The Delph, a grassed area with a fenced children's play ground and triangulation pillar. South of Stony Lane is a grassed recreation ground or common with Village Green Status. Cricket and football were played here but more suitable grounds became available. Eccleshill War Memorial is on the northern side and to the south of the Recreation Ground on Moorwell Place is a terrace of listed former weavers' houses and a bowling green.

There are many historic wells in Eccleshill, e.g. Moor Well, and Tun Well however there is a Holy Well covered by a manhole cover, located in a private garden off Harrogate Road opposite the end of Ravenscliffe Avenue, close to the site of Eccleshill Railway Station. This historic well and its associated grove dates back to Roman times.

The Eccleshill (Swimming) Pool is located on Harrogate Road towards Greengates.

To the east of Harrogate Road can be found the Eccleshill NHS Treatment Centre, and playing fields. East of the playing fields is the Eccleshill Community Hospital, Eccleshill Park—an area of grassland, and the Eccleshill Adventure Playground.

Eccleshill has four post offices, one on Harrogate Road, one in Fagley and others in Ravenscliffe and Thorpe Edge. There is also a driving test centre on Victoria Road. Eccleshill Police Station is not in Eccleshill ward but just outside in Idle.

Eccleshill has a number of public houses particularly along Victoria Road and Norman Lane, however several public houses along Harrogate Road have closed in recent years.

 * Listed buildings

Eccleshill's listed buildings include private houses on Moorside Road,Moorside Road: ,, , , , , , , and the Ukrainian Autocephalic Orthodox church, a public house and a private house on Stony Lane, private houses on Stone Hall Road and Back Stone Hall Road, Stone Hall Road:; ,, , , Back Stone Hall Road: listed farmhouses and former farmhouses on Fagley Lane and Fagley Road, listed three-storey former weavers' houses (1851–54) on Moorwell Place, and a listed former Wesleyan chapel (1775) on Lands Lane. and the Manor House off Leeds Road.

Bradford Industrial Museum

In the south of Eccleshill off Moorside Road close to Fagley is the Bradford Industrial Museum in what was Moorside Mills. This museum houses machinery from local textile and printing industries and has a row of workers houses. It used to house the popular Horses at Work exhibition but this has now closed.

Churches
Originally built in 1854 as a Wesleyan Methodist Church, the Ukrainian Autocephalic Orthodox church is the only listed church building in Eccleshill. Tucked behind this church is a former Wesleyan Sunday School of 1885, now residential accommodation.

Governance
Eccleshill was an independent township up until 1899 when along with Thornton, Tong, Idle and North Bierley it joined with Bradford. As of 2004, Eccleshill ward includes the south-east quadrant of Greengates, Thorpe Edge housing estate, part of Five Lane Ends, Bank Top, the eponymous Eccleshill, Fagley and the Ravenscliffe housing estate.

Eccleshill electoral ward is represented on Bradford Council by three Liberal Democrat councillors, Geoff Reid, Nicola Pollard and Brendan Stubbs.
 * Councillors

indicates seat up for re-election.

Economy

Along the south-western end of Victoria Road is the Victoria Industrial Estate including The Old Mill and a variety of commercial and light industrial units. Work has begun on the creation of 589 homes on the former sandstone quarry near Fagley.

A Lidl supermarket and Starbucks have been built on an as yet unfinished retail park on the now demolished Union Mills/Pilleys Mill site.

Education

Cavendish Primary school, Saint Brendan's primary school, to the west in Swain House is the Hanson Academy. Hutton Middle school was demolished to make way of housing, although the caretakers house still remains. Also demolished was Eccleshill Upper school and a replacement school was built in Thackley called Emmanuel college.

Ashcroft Doctor's surgery, Eccleshill Hospital (not A&E) and Inspire business park was built in place on the old Eccleshill Upper school grounds. Eccleshill Public Library is on Bolton Road. In Fagley on Falsgrave Road is Fagley primary school.

Eccleshill was the first township to elect a School Board in the land, following Edward Forsters Education Act of 1871. The School Board built three schools; Greengates, Wellington and the Central Board School; later named Hutton School after John Hutton who was Chair of the School Board for over 25 years and who bought and donated the land for and contributed to the building of the Central Board School. Both Hutton School and Wellington Schools were demolished to make way for new housing developments. The Greengates school building only remains - as of 2022 it remained unlisted.

Transport
The area is served by the First Bradford 640, 641 and 645 Green Line and A2 airport bus services. The main roads through the area are the north–south A658 Harrogate Road, and the A6176 Bolton Road—Pullan Avenue.

Sport
Eccleshill United Football Club are currently members of the Northern Counties East Football League Premier Division. Other local sports teams include Eccleshill Badminton Club who use the facilities of Hanson School. Rugby team Victoria Rangers A.R.L.F.C. and Victoria Rangers A.F.C. who once used the facilities of Eccleshill Sports and Social Club. until they folded.

Culture and events
The Eccleshill Village Fair is held annually in The Delph, a grassed over former Stoney Lane Quarry north of Stony Lane. The spelling of Stoney/Stony Lane is contentious even today although older maps favour the Stoney spelling.

Notable people
See the category People from Eccleshill.

Artist David Hockney (b. 1937) grew up in Eccleshill. TV presenter, journalist, and game show host Richard Whiteley (1943–2005) was born in Eccleshill into a family of mill owners, and lived there in his youth. The company was Thomas Whiteley & Co. (1889–1963) worsted manufacturers based in mill premises off Stone Hall Road. TV presenter and journalist Christa Ackroyd (b. 1957) and actor Duncan Preston (b. 1946) were born in Eccleshill.

Popular Victorian actress and 'postcard beauty' Marie Studholme (1872–1930) was born at Stone Hall, Eccleshill. Inventor Edward Spurr (1907–1998) was brought up in Eccleshill and Yorkshire and England cricketer Don Brennan (1920–1985) was born in Eccleshill.

Arthur Wood (1898–1973), a Yorkshire and England cricketer was born in Fagley and Eric Anderson (1915–1943), a posthumous recipient of the Victoria Cross lived in Ashfield Place, Fagley.

title: Eccleshill, Bradford


text:
Talk:Robin Squire

Untitled
I've added some detail. Why does everything here get put up for deletion unless the first edit is a gargantuan essay? There are entries for current MPs with less than this...

title: Talk:Robin Squire


text:
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball

RfC on integrating non-AL & NL leagues into MLB season page infoboxes
How should non-AL & NL leagues (namely late 19th century major leagues, 1914–1915 Federal League, and seven 1920–1948 Negro Major Leagues) be integrated (as previously agreed, in regards to the Federal League) into MLB season page infoboxes? Is my attempt a good solution or should it be different? Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

 * This is far too open ended. This question assumes that the information should be integrated. Why should they be integrated? What's the harm in the status quo? How will this change serve as an improvement? Nemov (talk) 15:16, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There has been a previous agreement to integrate the Federal League into the 1914 & 1915 MLB season pages, but little specifics were actually agreed upon. The question that "information should be integrated" was already agreed on. The how has not been discussed. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:23, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It would be convenient to link to past agreements. —Bagumba (talk) 15:34, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Link referencing the past agreement added to the original question! Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That discussion didn't mention the infobox or am I missing something? Nemov (talk) 15:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * That's the exact problem! That discussion was concluded with "Consensus is to include the Federal League records in the respective MLB season articles". However, the how was never addressed. There are several changes that would need to be made to integrate the page to include the Federal League. The current format is the result of edits I've made, but these edits were never discussed before I made the changes. This was how page was formatted before I made edits to the infobox. The purpose of this RfC is to address the integration of the Federal League (and by extension, other major leagues) into the existing season page infoboxes. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:50, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I question whether we need runners-up, and I would put the 2 World Serieses at the bottom, but overall this seems like the right approach. Jhn31 (talk) 22:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * We shouldn't make the infoboxes complicated. Best to stick with listing only the AL & NL. GoodDay (talk) 22:38, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

RfC on league leaders tables
Should the League leaders tables be formatted differently? Some users have suggested changing the tables to be more compact, so I have four different ideas as to how they could be formatted. (1, 2, 3, 4). Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:13, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

 * I recommend withdrawing this RFC until there's something more concrete for editors to comment on... should they be formatted differently? I don't know. If you have two examples to compare against that would be easier to digest than searching through 4 examples. Nemov (talk) 15:18, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I didn't want to put the ideas here as they take up a lot of space (and are all on the same page), but I will put them here if that is the better option. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:24, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's usually more effective to give an overview of what you perceive as the problem and your proposed solution. And if you can't narrow down from four options, describe what is the conflict that you want input on.—Bagumba (talk) 15:30, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Previous discussions had some users commenting that the tables should be more compact, so that's where this RfC is stemming from. I've changed the original RfC question to specify why I've submitted this RfC. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:36, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This is too much, too fast. GoodDay (talk) 22:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * What's not too much, too fast? Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 17:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I like #4 for compactness, but there could be further discussion on which specific stats should be included. Jhn31 (talk) 01:34, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It may be worth it to compare the 1923 season stat table proposals. with the 2024 season stat table proposals. I'm personally feeling #4 as well, as it doesn't lead to the seasons with more than two leagues (1914–1915, 1920–1948) to have multiple tables taking up a lot of space. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 17:17, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 4 should be fine long as it doesn't become even wider. 2 as a second choice. CurryCity (talk) 23:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

 * So uh... Wikipedia's new larger standard font size may lead to some changed opinions. For 1923: (1, 2, 3, 4) and For 2024: (1, 2, 3, 4). You two  previously made your opinions, what do you think now? I still personally think #4 is preferable (there's not many season with 4 columns, only for 1923–1929, 1932, & 1937–1948). Maybe we should consider formatting the font to be at 95% or 90%?Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 14:59, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Prefer the compact table of #4 and am pretty indifferent on the font size. Jhn31 (talk) 15:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Let's go with 4 then since readers can adjust the font and other styles now. CurryCity (talk) 09:22, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

 * I think the league leaders table is just fine the way it currently is. I believe the saying “if it ain’t broke…” is appropriate here.  Leave it alone is my vote.  Pewtey (talk) 21:54, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Template:MLB standings look a bit broken now
So it seems Wikipedia is updating their default formatting again, this time by increasing the font size. Now, even less content fits horizontally. This text size increase has lead to all instances of the Template:MLB standings to be twice as tall, due to the Home and Road columns taking up two lines now. The best example of this can be seen with the current season.

This is only in regards to the current table format. There's many other formats built into this template via Module:MLB standings that would need adjusting:

There's a few ways we can go about this. We could shrink the font in the table by adding "font-size: 90%;" in the style header. We could do some minor adjustments to the columns: decrease the width for the team names (and let that be the column that may end up on two lines *cough* Los Angels Angels of Anaheim *cough*), rendering the percentage somehow so there is no leading 0 before the decimal. To avoid the two-line team, we may want to slightly increase the width of the table. Here's two examples with the 2021 NL West with the division winning 2014 Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim (it's with these teams that we see 3 digit wins and losses, a long name as a division winner, and a games back stat with "½").

Increasing width from 535em to 550em, removing leading 0 from %, and adjusting width % for each column:

Status quo but simply applying 90% font size:

I'm sure there's other ways to remedy this but I at least want to get this discussion going. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 14:45, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the best approach to respect the readers' choices for font size/zoom level is to stop displaying two tables side-by-side and display them one below the other. The table can then be made a bit wider to better accommodate variation in font size. isaacl (talk) 15:09, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Upon further reflection, it should be possible to wrap the American League and National League sections with a  element that uses CSS flexbox layout so that the sections will be next to each other if there is space, and wrap below if there is not. I'll have to experiment a bit. isaacl (talk) 15:16, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I added testcases for displaying the league standings next to each other. I made changes in the sandbox to increase the width of the division standings table and adjust the column width allocations, and used CSS flexbox layout at . For me, though, they only go side-by-side with the settings set to small font, wide display, and a 100% zoom level.(Note it also depends on browser window width.) isaacl (talk) 16:13, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You guys would know better than I do, does the reduced font size version adhere to MOS:SMALLFONT? It looks less than 85% to my naked eye. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:30, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I have no clue on the size issue but we can probably remove the "of Anaheim" from the Angels since the season page doesn't use that name anymore and it was always kinda funky. Spanneraol (talk) 17:57, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It's still present on season pages when that name was in use by the franchise. I put it in the testcase so the longest name can be tested. isaacl (talk) 20:18, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
 * In terms of widest or longest, you may also want to test the templates with the seeding indicator (1) or if a team is ½ a game back. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 05:44, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Please feel free to add more testcases! I've made some updates. isaacl (talk) 07:00, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking of other options but I think the flexbox layout is the way to go! More specifically, almost exactly as you have it on this section of the testcase page. The minor adjustments I'd do are seen here in my sandbox page.
 * Those minor adjustments would involve either formatting the percentages without the leading 0 and/or widen the table just enough so "(2) Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" fits on one line in the "Standard" text size. Wikipedia's "Standard" width will (at least on a 1080p monitor) always force the tables to not be side-by-side, but at least the "Small" & "Standard" text size with the "Wide" width will keep the standings side-by-side. I've made the Home and Away columns wider so that the Win/Loss doesn't wrap around into two lines when the text is set to "Large". It should be noted that, on a 1080p monitor, the widest these tables can be so that they are side-by-side in Wikipedia's "Wide" width is 614em. Admittedly, the Home and Road columns are awkwardly wide when the text is "Small" but it needs to be so that when text is "Large" it doesn't wrap around.
 * Also, any other side-by-side formatting (that involve the col-start/2/end templates) forces the tables to go past the designated "Standard" width and overlaps the Appearance sidebar. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 14:34, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what's different on your sandbox page, so I'll walk through the changes I made to the sandbox template, and perhaps you can walkthrough what is different?
 * Division table:
 * increased width from 535em to 555em
 * reduced percentage allocated to team name from 50% to 48%
 * increased percentage allocated to home and road records from 10% to 11%
 * Win-loss only table (used for division leaders table):
 * increased width from 390em to 405em
 * Wild card table:
 * increased width from 390em to 405em
 * The "V·T·E" links bump up against the headings at larger font sizes, which is why I started testing width increases for all tables. They're still not wide enough at present; more tweaking or a different adjustment may be needed. It's possible to write code to strip the leading 0 from the percentage, but personally I'd prefer to get by without writing more code if possible.
 * Forcing a side-by-side display was always a bit of an accessibility issue (it creates left-right scrolling for me, as I browse at a slightly enlarged zoom level), so I think using flexbox layout is preferable. Changing all of the season pages, though, needs some willing volunteers (I think it should be feasible to use AWB to semi-automate the changes).
 * I'm not clear on your use case with "other side-by-side formatting". Can you add a testcase using the sandbox template with the flexbox layout to provide an example? isaacl (talk) 19:32, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Regarding "other side-by-side formatting", I'm not sure if there are other methods to have two tables side-by-side aside from the current (col-start/col-2/col-end) templates and flexbox, that's why I said "other"... so I guess ignore that.
 * I've only tested changes on the division table, not the win-loss or wild card table. I have two versions of proposed changes (which keeps percentage as "0.123"). One is so that, even in large text, everything fits on one line. The other allows team names in large text to be in two lines. Both versions resolve the issue of the Home and Road records taking up two lines.
 * Version that keeps everything on one line, even if text is set to Large:
 * increased width from 535em to 700em
 * increased percentage allocated to team name from 50% to 52%
 * decreased percentage allocated to Win, Loss, & Games Behind from 7% to 6%
 * decreased percentage allocated to Win% from 9% to 8%
 * increased percentage allocated to Home and Road records from 10% to 11%
 * Version that allows team names to fit on two lines when text is set to Large:
 * increased width from 535em to 614em
 * decreased percentage allocated to team name from 50% to 45%
 * decreased percentage allocated to Win & Loss from 7% to 6%
 * increased percentage allocated to Games Behind from 7% to 8%
 * increased percentage allocated to Home and Road records from 10% to 13%
 * In the context of Wikipedia's "Large" text appearance:
 * By making the table wide enough so everything in a row fits on one line, the table must be increased to at least 700em (this would eliminate the purpose of wrapping tables to be side-by-side, whether by flexbox or 2-column layout, even if the Width setting is set to "Wide", as the table is simply too wide to wrap).
 * By allowing the team name to be in two lines (while still being on one line when the text appearance is set to "Small" or "Standard"), the table must be increased to at most 614em to allow the table to wrap in the "Wide" width. (These tables will never fit in Wikipedia's "Standard" width side-by-side unless team names and home/road records take up multiple lines).
 * I'm focusing on the fact that if the table is only increased to 555em, the Home and Road records don't fit on one line and effectively double the height of the table. Also, making the tables as wide as I'm proposing should eliminate the V·T·E overlapping with the Division name.
 * Also, I've been (slowly) adding more information (schedule section/table of teams, stadiums, & managers/map showing team locations/etc.) to every MLB season page going back to 1901 (currently finished 1901–1936), so I'll gladly volunteer to apply the flexbox format (unless of course AWB can do the job!) I hope I've cleared any confusion! Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:55, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I've changed the sandbox version of the module to specify a width of 614em for the division table and the column percentages you listed. There is still overlap with the template navbar for the American Association and Players' League standings tables. (There's overlap too when the full American/National League division names are used, but I believe none of the current MLB standings templates use the full names.) Thus a wider size would be needed to accommodate those uses. On a side note, I don't get a side-by-side layout with any combination of font size/page width settings; I'm guessing your screen width is larger than mine. isaacl (talk) 00:16, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * My screen is 1080p (which is 1920 pixels wide). It seems anything that's at least 1440 pixels wide or smaller negates any use of the Standard or Wide widths. Formatting the standings to be side-by-side via flexbox would only benefit those with a higher screen resolution. I can't test for anything between 1440 pixels and 1600 pixels, but I know there's a difference at 1600. Regarding the current 535em tables, they'd only go side-by-side via flexbox with a display resolution of 1680 pixels or more.
 * I highly recommend that any instance of the endash "–" be replaced with the template ("") immediately. This would prevent the Home and Road columns from populating multiple lines, in the same way "& n b s p ;" (with no spaces) does. (I now need to test the width % of each column again and adjust percentages... I wish I knew about this before!)
 * It may be that the side-by-side formatting just ends up being a luxury for those with wider monitors. Much depends on whether we want team names to strictly appear on one line, or allow for the team names to appear on multiple lines.
 * Regarding the V·T·E, what if we added a line above everything for the name of the division/league? An example of what I'm talking about can be seen here (an added bonus could be color coding American League and National League with red and blue, respectively, as well). The V·T·E would fill the box where the division/league name used to be. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:24, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, perhaps we don't necessarily need the tables to be a defined em width? The tables could be formatted so instead of the table at large being defined, the columns themselves could be defined (as is the case with the NFL standings templates). That way, the changing text size doesn't create unnecessarily wide boxes. Basically, if the text is smaller, the box is narrower. If the text is larger, the box is wider. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:40, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * This is the change I'm talking about, changing the table from table defined by an overall table-width to a table where columns define the width. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 15:57, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * From an accessibility point of view, not specifying a width is best. I think it would mean forgoing a side-by-side display (I don't think it can be done with CSS alone unless a width is specified, and Javascript is overkill for this purpose and so wouldn't get approved). For that reason I hadn't floated that idea before (I didn't want to get into an argument with those who might prefer that layout). With the introduction of the readability tools to Wikipedia, though, I agree that getting rid of the fixed width should be considered. It would also mean that the division tables and the individual columns may have different overall widths when stacked on top of each other, unless the tables were set to fill the full available width. isaacl (talk) 16:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I changed the sandbox module by removing the table widths, and added a test case without any columns or flexbox layout. The flexbox layout test case still allows for side-by-side layout, but there's no attempt to avoid line breaks within the cells, as the browser will squeeze the columns narrower as needed to try to fit the tables next to each other. And it seems the squeezing still happens even if the second block of tables has to overflow to below the first block. So I think the new testcase is the better approach if removing the table widths. isaacl (talk) 16:28, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * If we allow squeezing to happen, ideally, we only want it affecting the team name column (hence my desire to replace all instances of "–" with the template . The output is the same ("") but it forces the "####" to stay on one line.
 * I'm in the middle of testing different column widths here to try and minimize table widths as much as possible without making the table needlessly wider.
 * Also! I know I wrote a lot in my previous comment but how do you feel about adding the header row on top of the table? That would resolve the V·T·E overlap. Alternatively (and I can't format it correctly), have the V·T·E in the top row with the division/league name, and have it so "Team" is the column header. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 17:06, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I think I found a near-solution to the differing column widths. This will result in tables that are only 1 or 2 pixels off in Small or Standard text and up to 4 pixels off in Large text. The GB column will be the same, regardless of if there is "½" or not. ! width="245" | Team ! width="24" | W ! width="24" | L ! width="35" | Pct. ! width="27" | GB ! width="39" | Home ! width="39" | Road ! width="245" | Team ! width="24" | W ! width="24" |  L  ! width="35" | Pct. ! width="27" | GB ! width="39" | Home ! width="39" | Road Basically, the "W" and "GB" each have an instance of  before and after it, while "L" has , since "L" is narrower than "W".

Within the brackets, it would look like this: "Win (baseball)| W ", "Loss (baseball)| L ", and "Games behind| GB ". (I hate trying to show examples of html text as it would look in an edit!) Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 17:41, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

 * With table markup, I think the only choices are to specify the cell width in some manner, or let the browser's layout algorithm do its work. (If something like grid or flexbox layout was used instead of the table, more control can be asserted on what is allowed to shrink/grow, but I think that would be too obscure to allow for easy maintenance.)
 * I'm not a fan of having a cell span the entire width of the table, due to semantics: it would essentially be a caption, and so I would prefer using a table caption for better accessibility. I can try mocking something up later with a table caption. (I do not like changing the default background colour, as it means viewability and colour contrast has to be considered across different skins and dark mode.) isaacl (talk) 17:52, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Regarding the last example, if the table width is going to be allowed to expand as necessary, then we shouldn't specify fixed column widths. Pixel-perfect layout isn't a goal to strive for with a responsive design. isaacl (talk) 17:56, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * But it is possible to set slight restrictions within the bounds of a responsive design, no? Here are two examples. One which features the NFL-division style header (here) and one which maintains the current MLB format (here). Regardless of the change in text size, each division table both grows with the text size, and also maintains a near-consistent column width. The cell-spanning-the-entire-width to me, is a decent solution to resolve the V·T·E overlap. Alternatively, in keeping the current table format, instead of spelling out "National League" or "American Association", their abbreviations "NL" or "AA" are simply used.
 * Also, regarding the visibility with the red and blue colored headers (not that I'm necessarily in favor of this either), the colors (as well as the colorless darker gray that outputs by using ! instead of | in the tables) don't change with dark mode. Regarding other skins? Outside of Custom CSS or Custom JavaScript skins, the color contrast remains consistent with the current Vector default skin and all other options that are selectable in Special:Preferences. However, I didn't check different browsers. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 18:25, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Specifying the width in (CSS) pixels for every column isn't a slight restriction. It locks down the widths just as much as specifying the width of the entire table and allocating percentages to each column. Using a font-related unit is also more amenable to handling changes in font size.
 * Regarding dealing with other skins and dark mode: the appearance of the cells against the main background should be considered. I'd rather just use the skin/dark mode defaults that have been tested. isaacl (talk) 21:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * <syntaxhighlight ></syntaxhighlight> is a good way to show code examples. For example:  (See mw:Extension:SyntaxHighlight for more details.) isaacl (talk) 18:17, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I was trying to get it to appear in the proofreading format I had above, but I lost my patience in trying to get it to work! Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 18:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I've changed the sandbox module to use table captions and to put zero-width joiner characters around the en-dashes in order to prevent line breaks. You can see the results on the testcases page. isaacl (talk) 21:32, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I changed the testcase using flexbox layout to provide additional guidance on how the two blocks of tables can be expanded/shrunk to fit the available space (now that the table is no longer a fixed width). It now shows a side-by-side layout at narrow window widths than before. (Note increasing the font size effectively narrows the window; with the change, a side-by-side layout appears with the text size set to large and the width set to wide.) isaacl (talk) 22:05, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

 * The headers as you have it are great, especially with the V·T·E no longer being able to overlap. I think the rest looks great, aside from Large text (at least on 1920 pixel width), but that's by virtue of teams taking multiple lines of space. It's unavoidable if the goal is to always have two columns. I adjusted the percentages slightly (the Home and Road are now 10% each and Teams 51%. Previously this was 13% each and 45%, numbers I had used before I knew there was a way to code the endash to restrict breaks).
 * Is there a way for there to be no breaks between the seeding # and team name? That's part of the problem with the large text. On 1080p at least, with Large text and Standard width, for example, the AL East looks like this (unlike here, it is centered in the table):
 * (1)
 * Baltimore
 * Orioles
 * (4)
 * Tampa
 * Bay
 * Rays
 * (6)
 * Toronto
 * Blue
 * Jays
 * If there were no break, the table could be a bit shorter and the AL & NL columns' hieght would be aligned a little better.
 * (Side note: I wish I knew what I was looking at with the module. I'd spend the extended amount of time to write the code myself to get rid of that leading 0 if it meant the Team text could have just a little more room! Maybe I'll spend some time to figure it out).
 * Aside from what I mentioned, I think this may be the way to go. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 23:59, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I changed the space to a non-breaking space, so the text should not break at that point.
 * Part of my not wanting to write more code than necessary is that I'm not sure if there are any other editors interested in baseball who know Lua, so I didn't want to make the code more complicated if it wasn't needed. However, I see I already convert the percentage to a string for formatting, so I guess what's a little more string manipulation... I've coded a change in the sandbox module. (The other part is that it doesn't seem like it should be necessary to strip out "0" to deal with a table layout that is much, much wider than a single character. :-) isaacl (talk) 00:24, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Looks like you beat me to it (by a lot... I was still trying to find what I was looking for here xD ) That's much better! I personally think this could be the version. Thanks for hearing out some of my ideas and allowing me to (basically) badger you to update the Module! Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 01:07, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Part of my not wanting to write more code than necessary is that I'm not sure if there are any other editors interested in baseball who know Lua, so I didn't want to make the code more complicated if it wasn't needed. However, I see I already convert the percentage to a string for formatting, so I guess what's a little more string manipulation... I've coded a change in the sandbox module. (The other part is that it doesn't seem like it should be necessary to strip out "0" to deal with a table layout that is much, much wider than a single character. :-) isaacl (talk) 00:24, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Looks like you beat me to it (by a lot... I was still trying to find what I was looking for here xD ) That's much better! I personally think this could be the version. Thanks for hearing out some of my ideas and allowing me to (basically) badger you to update the Module! Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 01:07, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

To summarize, the following changes are being proposed: has an example of the MLB season page layout. Feedback is welcome! If there aren't any objections, I will update the MLB standings template, and Spesh531 has volunteered to update the MLB season pages. shows how the tables will appear after the MLB standings template has been updated, but before a given MLB season page is modified as proposed. isaacl (talk) 14:17, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Table widths in MLB standing tables (division, division leaders, and wild card teams) are no longer fixed in width. The percentages allocated to the columns are tweaked based on trial-and-error testing. This allows the browser to shrink the width of the table as needed to keep it from being wider than the main content area.
 * The table title is moved out of the heading of the first column and to the table caption (along with the mini template navigation bar). This provides better accessibility for those using assistive technologies, and gives adequate space to fit the title with an adjacent template navigation bar.
 * The markup on MLB season pages used to display the standings for the American and National Leagues is modified to no longer enforce a two-column layout. Two columns will be used if the browser is able to lay them out within the available space, given the browser window width and other display choices configured by the reader (both Wikipedia settings, and browser settings). This respects the reader's configuration while still supporting a side-by-side layout if there is space.

 * As I said above, it looks good to me! Simply waiting for the MLB standings template to update and I'll make the changes on all of the season pages! Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 01:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm considering making a template for the flexbox portion of the markup, so if something needs to be adjusted, it can be done in one place rather than having to edit all the season pages again. (It would probably be something like Flexbox but with a Lua implementation similar to Flex columns to allow for an arbitrary number of blocks.) I'm still struggling with how to describe the intent of the template conceptually and how reusable the template should be, though even if it's just used on MLB season pages, that would be plenty of uses. The standings template can still be updated in the near future (I'm still waiting to see if anyone else comments). isaacl (talk) 04:12, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There were some limitations with implementing it in Lua, so I changed the usage to be similar to col-float/col-float-break/col-float-end. I've updated the test case to use the new template I created, flexbox wrap. isaacl (talk) 05:43, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I've [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module:MLB_standings&diff=prev&oldid=1232960964 updated the MLB standings template] with the proposed changes. isaacl (talk) 15:27, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm working through the seasons now. I won't have time to finish today. I do have one question: is there a reason why, such as in 1956 Major League Baseball season, the American League and National League standings are of a different width? Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 18:28, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I've noticed why it happens! Whenever a team has triple digit wins or losses, the table gets wider. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 18:47, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your diligent work! Yes, the consequence of getting rid of fixed-width tables is that when the contents of a cell gets wider, the cell and thus the whole table gets wider, provided there is enough horizontal space for the browser to lay out the table cells without needing to introduce line breaks. Using percentages for the cell widths means the Wins and Losses columns in a given table will stay the same size even if just one of them has to expand to fit their contents. Once the browser does have to shrink the cell widths to fit them in the available space, then the relationships between the column widths can change from the specified values. isaacl (talk) 03:20, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

FWIW - Would adding a GP (games played) column, be unnecessary? GoodDay (talk) 21:01, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Strike zone and Base on balls opening image crop request
Was going to create and redirect "Low and away" to Strike zone ( 'Strike Zone' probably should be uppercased, no?, which is now taken by the name of a Star Trek novel and, come to think of it, I'm going to boldly go and change the name and redirect uppercase to the now lowercase Strike zone to see if it sticks). A request, can someone here who is good at cropping images tackle the opening image at Strike zone and Base on balls and separate the strike zone data from the advertisement for Goodyear? Thanks. This would also enlarge the important page-pertinent details. Randy Kryn (talk) 02:58, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Also created 'High and inside' and redirected it to 'Strike zone'. Moved the uppercased page to Strike Zone (book) and redirected Strike Zone to Strike zone. Randy Kryn (talk) 03:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Disruptive IP
Just a heads up: there is a disruptive IP address editor who is reformatting pages of Hall of Famers in a way which is unhelpful at best. They give no explanation for their edits either and have been at it for a few weeks now. Just keep a lookout and report them if possible. Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:54, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Tony Kemp (baseball)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Tony Kemp (baseball) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 20:38, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Merge proposal: Dalton Rogers
I have proposed that article Dalton Rogers be merged into Boston Red Sox minor league players. I initially made a WP:BOLD merger, but another editor objected. Editors are welcome to offer comment here. Dmoore5556 (talk) 21:08, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Cumulative win-loss record for head-to-head rivals
I have started a discussion at Talk:Major League Baseball rivalries regarding a recent set of changes that introduced the cumulative head-to-head win-loss records for pairs of rivals, over the entire history of the teams. Feedback is welcome. isaacl (talk) 00:31, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

 * I had previously added them to each section due to it already existing on the Angels-Athletics section, and I was trying to keep some consistency from section to section, though I'm indifferent regarding keeping or removing the head-to-head records. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 16:56, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
 * To briefly summarize what I said on the Major League Baseball rivalries talk page, I think fans talk about pennant races and playoff series wins when they talk about rivalries. I don't think cumulative head-to-head win-loss records for the regular season and for the playoffs really captures what fans are thinking about with rivalries, even if these are numbers that broadcasters like to trot out. Thus I think the records should be removed from the rivalries article. isaacl (talk) 02:11, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Adding (or removing?) stats to League leaders sections in season pages
Currently, hitting and pitching leaders tables each have 6 stats each. I'm of the belief that OPS should be added to hitting leaders and less so adamant that WHIP be added to pitching leaders. Why OPS? It seems that most of the league at this point focuses more on OPS than AVG. Why WHIP? Though not as focused on compared to ERA, it portrays a pitchers effectiveness against batters and is typically on even smaller pitching stats tables (such as CBS Sports, which for pitching stats, shows Wins, ERA, Saves, Strikeouts, and WHIP). Plus, adding WHIP would keep both hitting and pitching leaders to show 7 stats each.

I know I read somewhere in the talk page someone had suggested reducing the stats listed. I personally disagree but I wanted to mention it.

Regarding an addition or removal, I'm willing to go through all 124 season pages to update them. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 17:11, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Creating pages for Milwaukee Braves, Kansas City Athletics, and Washington Senators (1961–1971)
In my sandbox, I have created pages for the Milwaukee Braves, Kansas City Athletics, and Washington Senators (1961–1971). I'd like to copy/paste the content to the redirect pages or move the sandbox page itself to proper articles (with admin support, as I cannot do that myself), but I wanted input from other WikiProject Baseball users before doing any sort of implementation. I've modeled these pages mostly after the Boston Braves article, but most mentioned below follow a similar format.

Mind you, there is heavy precedent for having separate pages for the same franchise but of different locations, such as: Some of these teams existed longer in previous locations (Braves, Giants, Dodgers, Expos) and some existed for only one season (Seattle Pilots).
 * Baltimore Orioles with franchise pages Milwaukee Brewers (1894–1901) and St. Louis Browns
 * Atlanta Braves with franchise page Boston Braves
 * Oakland Athletics with franchise page Philadelphia Athletics
 * San Francisco Giants with franchise page New York Giants (baseball)
 * Los Angeles Dodgers with franchise page Brooklyn Dodgers
 * Minnesota Twins with franchise page Washington Senators (1901–1960)
 * Milwaukee Brewers with franchise page Seattle Pilots
 * Washington Nationals with franchise page Montreal Expos

These three pages would simply complete the set of prior locations of current MLB franchises. Much of the content is largely taken from existing articles (as are stated at the top of each of the three sandbox articles at the moment), but each have been expanded with Infoboxes, and "Legacy", "Notable [Team Name players]", "Uniforms", and "List of [Team Name] seasons" sections. Some areas of the articles have been expanded within the already existing-from-other-articles sections. Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 16:04, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

 * For the Milwaukee Braves I believe the History of the Atlanta Braves article is the best place for covering the franchise history in Milwaukee, especially since the franchise wasn't in Milwaukee for very long. This probably opens up a can of worms but the Boston Braves article pretty much covers the exact same information that's already included in the Atlanta Braves article what's left could be put in the "History of..." article as well. Nemov (talk) 16:49, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I believe there already was an RFC held a few years ago, on how to handle relocated MLB franchises. GoodDay (talk) 17:00, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yep, here's the RFC. Nemov (talk) 17:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * A 2022 request for comments discussion resulted in being modified to state that if there is sufficient content, keep an article at the old franchise name. Otherwise, the old name is redirected to either the appropriate section in the new franchise article or the "History of new franchise" article. So it's up to editorial judgement if these former franchises have enough content for an independent article. isaacl (talk) 17:16, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm definitely new to the discussion history regarding this topic, but my understanding from reading through the past discussions on this talk page, mainly Archive 41 from 2015 and Archive 47 from 2022 (in which the next section was to the RfC related to sports team names), I get the sense that the initial solution to this reoccurring question was to split each teams history in a previous location to its own (for example) "History of the Boston Braves" page, though in some cases, there weren't any splits (such as with the Milwaukee Braves, as the history was not long/detailed enough to warrant its own page).
 * Then, that decade-ish long consensus had the rug swept out from underneath when the RfC on naming conventions took all of these dedicated "History of [FORMER LOCATION TEAM NAME]" articles and removed the "History of", making it so the 9 of the 12 previous-locations-of-current-franchise pages (excluding the three team iterations that sparked this section) now all had separate articles, when before that wasn't the case. The "history of..." seemed to be a compromise between keeping all team history in the current franchise "History of..." pages and simply breaking off each previous-locations-of-current-franchise pages.
 * I'm coming into this only now (and just read the archives while typing this comment). I made these three sandbox pages because my thinking was "well if these 9 articles mentioned above can exist, why not the other 3? Especially considering a page like Seattle Pilots only covers one season".
 * Personally, I'm of the belief that while the franchises are technically the same, I'd argue simply being in different cities (especially of considerable distance as Boston>Milwaukee>Atlanta or Philadelphia>Kansas City>Oakland) is enough to warrant their own articles (again, see Seattle Pilots). For example, the Milwaukee Brewers and Philadelphia Phillies celebrate other franchises' histories, with the Milwaukee Braves Wall of Honor and Philadelphia Phillies Wall of Fame (which includes many Philadelphia Athletics players), respectively. There's a history of baseball in that location. Though of course, at the same time, these histories are celebrated by the Atlanta Braves and Oakland Athletics franchises, respectively. These two simultaneous views on how to look at these now-relocated teams, to me, warrants their own articles.
 * Spesh531(talk, contrib., ext.) 18:02, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Based on the RFC, Milwaukee squarely falls into the "not enough history to justify an article" camp. The Atlanta Braves and History of the Atlanta Braves covers that period well. Nemov (talk) 18:28, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think there should be enough history in thirteen seasons to have a separate article. If editors like Spesh531 are interested in developing more coverage of the Milwaukee Braves, then I think it's reasonable to have a standalone article. (If there is no interest at the moment in expanding coverage, then I'm less opinionated about spinning out the Milwaukee history.) isaacl (talk) 18:41, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I too fail to see how one season of the Seattle Pilots and eight seasons in the late 1800s of the early-era Milwaukee Brewers (1894–1901) are both worthy of articles, but thirteen seasons of the Milwaukee Braves, thirteen seasons of the Kansas City Athletics, and eleven seasons of the Washington Senators (1961–1971) somehow are not. If editors are eager and willing to work on developing articles for those three teams, I say go ahead and do it. After all, the history of those three franchises in those three cities would most definitely meet WP:GNG. Ejgreen77 (talk) 22:53, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I do agree if new content laser focused on the Milwaukee Braves is created I wouldn't object. However, a new article simply covering the same exact content found elsewhere it's not necessary. The Boston Braves article could be improved a lot in this regard. Nemov (talk) 13:35, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

The RfC didn't address whether or not an article should exist -- it only covered if it did exist what the title should be. Basically, you shouldn't have a "History of the Brooklyn Dodgers" unless you first have a "Brooklyn Dodgers" article. IMO, Spesh531 could have created these articles per WP:BRD. I always figured someone would eventually fill in the blanks and turn the redirects into articles one of these days. It looks like the 3 redirects all meet the "minor history" requirement so you can probably tag all 3 with Db-g6 and an admin can complete the page move. (You can't copy/paste your Milwaukee article because more than one user has edited the page.) Also since you copied content from the old History article, be sure to give proper attribution by putting copied on the talk pages (see Talk:St. Louis Stars (baseball) & Talk:St. Louis Stars (1937) for copied examples). Rgrds. --BX (talk) 04:52, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball