text:
User talk:David Fuchs

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Your GA nomination of Those Old Scientists
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Those Old Scientists you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Sammi Brie -- Sammi Brie (talk) 01:41, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Those Old Scientists
The article Those Old Scientists you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Those Old Scientists and Talk:Those Old Scientists/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Sammi Brie -- Sammi Brie (talk) 02:02, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Happy New Year, David Fuchs!

Happy New Year! David Fuchs, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

Abishe (talk) 14:58, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

Abishe (talk) 14:58, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Regarding Those Old Scientists GAN
Hey there @David Fuchs! I hope you're having a good day. I'm just a random editor and occasionally decide to help out in aiding GAR articles and stuff, and stumbled upon yours. I went ahead and I think wrapped up most, if not all the GAR edits necessary as it was mainly just a bit of CE and grammatical issues. Other than that, I'll let you check and personally see if ofc all the GAR things have been done, but hopefully I think everything should've been covered. Congrats on the imminent GA! Dcdiehardfan (talk) 18:43, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Thanks Dcdiehardfan, that was very kind of you. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 19:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @David Fuchs No worries man. I'm counting on the article to pass! :) Dcdiehardfan (talk) 19:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, make sure to check all the items that have been done just to make it easier for the reviewer. I'll go ahead and do that for you if you like or you can do that. I think there was still 1 last unresolved thing from the Source spotcheck, and that was something about a VFX, but I think you can take it from here for now. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 19:14, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Those Old Scientists
The article Those Old Scientists you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Those Old Scientists for comments about the article, and Talk:Those Old Scientists/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Sammi Brie -- Sammi Brie (talk) 00:42, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Featured article help
Hi David, I am currently working on Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas with the goal of (hopefully) getting TFA for its 20th anniversary on 26 October 2024. I saw you were on WP:FACM so I'm wondering if you would take a look over and see if there's anything missing - this is my first FA so I'm not too too sure what to look for. Thanks! RetroCosmos talk 16:07, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Hey RetroCosmos I'll be happy to take a look. I've got stuff on my plate so if you haven't heard from me in a week or two bug me so it doesn't fall off. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 18:41, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much!  RetroCosmos  talk 01:26, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

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Halo Reach
Hello again! How’re you?

I wanted to mention that I added that mention of bungie and 343 on its page because reach was the final game created by bungie before their departure. Shouldn’t it at least be added as a significant mention? Firekong1 (talk) 22:37, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

FAC mentor
Hello, I saw you were an FAC mentor that happens to be interested in video games. It's a little late for me to actually ask about being mentored since I already made my first FAC nomination a couple days ago. Luckily it's co-nominated with an editor with FAC experience, but it's their first video game FAC.

So instead of a mentor question, I was wondering if you could at the very least have a look at the article (The Dark Pictures Anthology: House of Ashes) to see if there are any notable issues while we wait for the reviews to start (hopefully). Unless you want to do a full review on the nom instead, but I just mostly want to make sure there are no big issues that we missed. You were the first mentor I saw listed with video game interest so I was hoping you had experience either reviewing or writing those kinds of FACs. -- Zoo  Blazer  02:57, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

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Welcome to the drive!
Welcome, welcome, welcome David Fuchs! I'm glad that you are joining the drive! Please, have a cup of WikiTea, and go cite some articles. CactiStaccingCrane (talk)18:45, 1 February 2024 UTC //en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:David_Fuchs&action=purge refresh via JWB and Geardona (talk to me?)

Letterpress FAC
Regarding this discussion: Where can I find your email? Thanks,  TWOrantula  TM (enter the web) 04:46, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

 * @TrademarkedTWOrantula you can use the "Email this user" function under Tools. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 15:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

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Thank you
for providing your analysis on the NPOV dispute for Margaret Sanger. I added a reply to your comment. I appreciate your independent analysis. DocZach (talk) 21:02, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

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Administrators' newsletter – March 2024
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Conflict of interest management: Case opened
Hello ,

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conflict of interest management. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conflict of interest management/Evidence. Please add your evidence by March 20, 2024, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conflict of interest management/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

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Tenebrae
I don't understand your tenebrae reference in terms of the community pushing arbcom. Arbcom received a report about the article and promptly began investigating. What am I missing? The other two are much clearer to me. Barkeep49 (talk) 03:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Barkeep49 my point was absent the Daily Dot article I see no way the case would have ended up at ArbCom, and to do that required someone to out Tenebrae, it just happened to be the press instead of a Wikipedian (and it was done in collaboration with Wikipediocracy, so fundamentally it's the same as any post there and whether someone does something about it here.) I guess you can argue ArbCom worked around it by just saying Tenebrae had a COI without actually stating who Tenebrae was, but it's splitting hairs at that point. My ultimate point is that COI investigations almost always require outing, and the real-world impact as far as Wikipedia has been is that the outing is far less egregious than the actual edits and content people have been trying to get away with. The harassment policy cannot be used as a shield against COI disclosures and investigations, or else all those editors would still be on their merry way making Wikipedia worse. So either ArbCom does it in a timely manner off-wiki, or it's still better it happens on-wiki than not at all. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 12:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this explanation and the evidence overall. I found it helpful. Barkeep49 (talk) 14:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

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Nomination of Factions of Halo for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Factions of Halo is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Factions of Halo& until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Greenish Pickle!  (🔔) 04:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – April 2024
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Mind
David Fuchs, would you be okay if I delete this? I've made quite a few unintentional mistakes on this site, and I'd rather not have this particular one archived. SN54129 reverted it. 750h+ 11:34, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You bet I did. Think before you post! I see you've been trying to clear house (also, the same here). WP:TPO is fundamental and not just a courtesy to those involved in the conversation but to the community who may wish to contextualise something at a later date and not plough through a hidden history. Be mindful!  ——Serial Number 54129  15:03, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * i deleted that one because i didn't want to annoy another FAC coord. will take that into mind though 750h+ 15:37, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * For your own education, have a look at this FAC, which will still be up for an hour or two, and compare it to yours. It's been open three months—immensely long even by FAC standards!—has gathered only two supports, received a lukewarm source review (which, to be fair to the source reviewer, seems to have been politely on the verge of failing several times), and generally has been less than enthusiastically attended to by its original nominator. And they're an admin with nearly 20 years of experience and about 500 good articles behind them! So compare what you've got.. the phrase you're looking for is "There but for the Grace of God, a decently written article, sympathetic reviewers and coords, Go I" :)   ——Serial Number 54129  15:45, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * i see. it seems like it's unfortunately been archived. thanks for this note SN54129 750h+ 15:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 750h+ I don't really see anything that needs to be archived or hidden. You're far from the only person who expects the coords to jump at their noms, I don't think you need to be deeply embarassed. Each coord has different strategies for dealing with noms and it's an ad-hoc process, but I was speaking personally that pinging coords isn't likely to get me to bump anything up top; if a nom isn't in danger of being archived it's not likely to get as much attention, that's just the nature of FAC. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 15:30, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – May 2024
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John Pulman
Hi there, I hope you're well. Just a quick query about this FAC... I don't want to get into an ugly back-and-forth on it, but I didn't see my oppose issues being addressed in the FAC, and I think it fairly unambiguously does not meet the FA criteria for the reasons outlined. I would have expected that the FAC would be archived and the nominator to add the additional material as required. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 21:01, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm doing fine, I hope you are well yourself. Your oppose was registered, but there wasn't sentiment from anyone else reviewing it that they felt similarly, and the nominator responded to your points with evidence of their own that they felt it met criteria and was a thorough presentation of the available sources. You can felt skeptical that the sources haven't been thoroughly plumbed, but without actually searching yourself and giving concrete examples of missing sources relevant to Pulman, I don't see how the oppose should trump everyone else's input. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 22:47, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

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June 2: Hacking Sunday (+preview of June 8 Wiknic)
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GA review
Hi David - re: the GA review of The Chosen (TV series), I made edits and updates based on the feedback from your initial review. I saw that you had made some edits to the article since then as well as some strikes on the notes. I was wondering if we're close to wrapping this up (either pass or fail). If there's anything additional you need from me, please let me know. Thanks! Butler Blog  (talk) 15:01, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Sat June 8: Governors Island Wiknic
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Administrators' newsletter – June 2024
News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2024).

Administrator changes
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Bureaucrat changes
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Technical news
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Arbitration
 * The arbitration case Venezuelan politics has been closed.
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A barnstar of your choice
I read your close on Talk:Donald Trump, and I'd like to start by thanking you for it. It is unfortunately rare that I see closes that both address the issue at hand but also address people who participated in it to ensure they know their views were considered even if they were not in line with policies/guidelines - but while still acknowledging their input. I couldn't find a barnstar that applied specifically to this situation, so in lieu of me inventing a new one, please take the barnstar of your choice (if you wish, and feel free to add it here) or, alternatively, my thanks for your thoughtful and very respectful close of the discussion. It is not easy to get involved in US politics on Wikipedia as a subject, as someone, somewhere will likely always have a reason to disagree with you - which makes your swift but thorough closure (less than 12 hours after the closure request) all the more deserving of thanks. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 03:23, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

 * Here to second the thanks... I appreciate the well-explained close there. 28bytes (talk) 00:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks 28bytes and Berchanhimez. I pretty much never touch US political articles so I think reading through a single RfC is a lot easier than being collaborative day-in and day-out on this stuff, so I'm always impressed by the editors who manage to do it. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 12:15, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

June 2024
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Doing this on another editor's behalf. Yes, it is about what you think it is.  Liliana UwU  (talk / contributions) 11:02, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

PowerBook 100 under FA Review
I have nominated PowerBook 100 for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. George Ho (talk) 08:31, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

June 26: ONLINE WikiWednesday Salon NYC
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iMac G3 TFA
Hi David, on the assumption that it will get promoted I am planning on running iMac G3 as the TFA for 15 August. Do you fancy having a go at a draft blurb, or would you rather I did it? Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:03, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

 * Hey @Gog the Mild I'll take a first stab at working up something on the FAC talk page. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs  talk 15:08, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

 * Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

admin assist
Apparently, adding to User:Fourthords/common.css doesn't actually tag it for deletion. Can you help me out and delete that page for me? —  Fourthords  | =Λ= | 04:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much! —  Fourthords  | =Λ= | 12:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of IMac G4
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article IMac G4 you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Vacant0 -- Vacant0 (talk) 16:25, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of IMac G4
The article IMac G4 you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:IMac G4 and Talk:IMac G4/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Vacant0 -- Vacant0 (talk) 14:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

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Administrators' newsletter – July 2024
News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2024).

Administrator changes
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title: User talk:David Fuchs


text:
Talk:Illyro-Roman Wars

Scerdilaidas
The career of Scerdilaidas lies within the purview of this article. Shopuldn't his entry be here, with a redirect? --11:23, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Dimale city

 * Was this city Greek or Illyrian?Source please.Megistias (talk) 14:17, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * According to Polybius it was a "double-hilled town, the strongest among the Illyrian places, with two citadels on two heights, connected by a wall" (Polyb. iii. 18, vii. 9). It was inside Illyrian territory not a coastal city. The next sentence of the Roman fleet moving after its capture is somewhat confusing. Aigest (talk) 11:52, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Illyrian wars no Macedonian wars

 * This is about the Illyrians wars not the Macedonian ones.The infobox needs be edited.Megistias (talk) 12:55, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Illyro-Roman Wars


text:
Talk:Chronology of warfare between the Romans and Germanic peoples

also removed http://www.royalandnoble.com/History/Ancient%20History/germanromanwars.html and http://www.ku.edu/kansas/medieval/108/lectures/germanic_invasions.html from references as they are dead now Dipa1965 (talk) 20:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

BC/AD versus BCE/CE
This article began with most commonly used dating system BC/AD. It continued to be only dating system for more or less 5 years without any problems whatsoever until. From then the article used both systems, which is unseemly and clearly goes WP:ERA which clearly states that "Use either the BC-AD or the BCE-CE notation, but be consistent within the same article" and also "Do not arbitrarily change from one style to the other on any given article". Noticing that this article used both system I checked its history first and then restored its original dating system. User:Jayjg somehow believes that this change was against WP:ERA and has de facto imposed the BCE/CE system upon this article (you went far beyond an restoration of the mixed article: compare the present form with the previous one ). So let's debate these facts. Flamarande (talk) 12:58, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * It's been using the mixed notation for over a year, which I agree is not a good idea. After your fairly arbitrary decision to change it all to BC notation, I changed it to the other, to point out that one could harmonize either way, and so that we could compare the two options. The fact that it first used BC is a point in converting to that notation, but not the only deciding factor; WP:ERA nowhere states that the earliest use is the one an article must follow forever after. Which notation was used the most before you converted it to BC notation? Jayjg (talk) 13:44, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The article's history clearly indicates that BC/AD has been used for longer amounts of time. 5 years of sole use followed by a single year of shared use. Flamarande (talk) 13:52, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That's more or less true (it has been over a year). During the period of "shared use", which notation was used more frequently or commonly? Also, is there something inherent to the topic that would indicate a preference for one use over another? Jayjg (talk) 23:31, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * During the 'shared time period' BCE appeared more often. The topic is a list historical battles which happened 'before' and 'after'. Therefore it needs a dating system and BC/AD, which is after all the most popular one as far as the English language is concerned, should be preferred over BCE/CE which is unknown in many parts of the world (eg: Europe). Flamarande (talk) 00:07, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * General arguments about whether BC/AD or BCE/CE are "better" not relevant here, since Wikipedia has determined that either is acceptable. Is there something inherent to the topic "Germanic Wars" that would indicate a preference for one use over another? For example, (though I'm not making this argument), one could make the argument that inherently Jewish topics should not use BC/AD, while inherently Christian ones should. Jayjg (talk) 00:21, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * NO, I challenge that particular reasoning. Jewish topics, Christian topics, Islamic topics, etc we are NOT going to balkanize the English wiki along religious lines. Who is going to define what is a Christian topic? Who is going to define what is a Jewish topic? What is a topic that is neither? I consider BC/AD in the same light as Thursday or bless you. It certainly has religious origins but that historical fact is simply irrelevant. Why should we censor the English language? Flamarande (talk) 00:57, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I pointed out that one might make that argument, though I wasn't making it myself. You don't have to make it either. However, you do have to provide some sort of rationale for what you are trying to do, and it has to be specifically relevant to this article. And, quite frankly, nothing is being "censored" anywhere on Wikipedia (or elsewhere). People are free to use whatever era notation they prefer, and the fact that you are so invested in this issue that you consider use of BCE/CE notation to be "censorship" is troubling. I think you need to take a step back here, and re-evaluate what you are doing and why. Jayjg (talk) 14:28, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

 * The article Germanic Wars began with BC/AD. The BCE/CE was apparently introduced by a simple accident. Two dating systems are neither needed, nor wished for, and against WP:ERA. The overwhelming majority of the related articles and battles use BC/AD (I only found two exceptions: Germanic peoples (which uses both) and Battle of the Teutoburg Forest (which uses BCE/CE) - but there might be more). This article never used BCE/CE only and there is clearly no consensus for such a change. IMHO all these facts are relevant for this article and I'm hereby insisting that the original BC/AD be restored without further delay. Thank you very much. Flamarande (talk) 22:09, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Those are relevant for this article, but I made my offer clear on your talk page. You need to step back from your war on BC/AD notation, starting here. Jayjg (talk) 22:21, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Internal contradiction
This article has gone through some recent expansion to include material which appears to be outside the scope previously denoted, in terms of the time period and in terms that some of the conflicts now listed have no Roman involvement. It is not a subject I know much about but to my eye at the very least there seems to be some internal contradiction. Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:37, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

I've done this so that you better understand the context of some battles and the reason why that happened. I'm thinking about an extra site for Chronology of Germanic Wars right now. Prophet of Hell (talk) 10:49, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Context comes from prose setting out why items are related, not by just listing them. I could put the Siege of Port Arthur into the a list of the chronology of the Pacific War but of itself it means nothing. GraemeLeggett (talk) 06:05, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

 * It means nothing to you because you have no clue about ancient history like I have no clue about the Pacific war. I used Archimedes as a historical anchor so that historians know where we are in history. Prophet of Hell (talk) 06:13, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

 * I think you may have just made my point for me. A classical historian would know where we are in history, a reader with some idea of history might have some idea of when the classicial period starts, most readers know Archimedes went to have a bath one day but forget to take his towel. GraemeLeggett (talk) 09:11, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Why I'm talking to you? Prophet of Hell (talk) 14:24, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Scope
The lead clearly qualifies the the scope of the article as Germanic tribes versus Romans. The Romans left Britain in the fourth century. Hence, later battles do not qualify. As far as I see, the wars of Germanic tribes against Eastern Rome in Italy are at least a borderline case. -- Zz (talk) 21:39, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Title
I don't know why this article need to rename to "Dogil jeonjaeng", can someone tell me why? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 13:00, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
 * dogileun germaneul tteuthago, jeonjaengeun wareul tteuthapnida. --Kypioys sx (talk) 00:15, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

idonge gwanhayeo
dogileun germaneul tteuthago, jeonjaengeun wareul tteuthapnida.


text: Talk:First Illyrian War

title: Talk:First Illyrian War


text:
Talk:Amory Lovins

Quack editors
There seems to be a major cancer across wikipedia with editors drinking the kool-aid and describing Amory as a physicist. Yet even here in the article it spells out rather cloakingly of course, but nonetheless, between the lines you see that "he is a college drop-out", that simply publishes advocacy pamphlets for hire, pamphlets which no actual physicist takes seriously.

I'm too busy right now to deal with this disturbing dogma-guru-man and their influence but at the least, you need to start describing Lovin's as something based in fact, such as an energy advocate. Or something like that. As even the moniker "analyst" would be too much, as for example, someone who advocates for lobotomies as a cure-all are nowadays not called a medicine analyst, now are they? When no one in the scientific literature continues with that "cure-all", now do they?

So what is Lovin's but akin to the other hugely popular homeopathy selling "Dr." mercola? [Who isn't a doctor either, who would have thought?]

By the way, this isn't me calling him this, it is actually but reputable secondary sources which describe him as a "college drop-out" etc.

Checking the archive here on this talk page, shows that this "he's a physicist" issue is not new. Yet, what do you know 9 years later and it's still an issue. With fans of theirs pushing fake "dr"/"physicist" labels.

I mean "soft energy"...wtf does that even mean? Other than the common guru-phenomenon of inventing a False-dichotomy? Is it that you'd have to be Soft-in-the-head to believe such a thing exists. What next? Fluffy-energy? Cuddle-some-energy? Boundarylayer (talk) 19:18, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

 * Other editors have been bringing this clear case of self-promoting up for close to a decade on the talk page, with the article then somehow, really who would have thought, repeatedly finding its ways back to describing Lovins as essentially, identically as his fanclub does.
 *

 * Yet anyone who does a basic search will find, Lovins' entire education history and cultivation of their 'environmental cred' is, to put it mildly, really, really not what they self-promote.

 * One of the great ironies in today’s America is that a two time college drop out and Friends of the Earth campaigner who strongly advocated for increasing coal use is often held up as a hero of the environmental movement while also making a lot of money as a consultant for the natural gas industry,

 * ...and another.

 * What it does not say is that Lovins dropped out of Harvard twice and attended just two years there. He somehow got into Oxford in 1967 and remained there long enough to be granted an MA, which is apparently not a Master of Arts, but roughly the equivalent of a certificate of enrollment. Forgive me for being an elitist, but no one should call themselves a scientist or a physicist without a piece of sheepskin to back them up.

 * An | Actual physicist Alexander DeVolpi, in an identical fashion went thru the same realization, in an exchange he had with him in a magazine, Amory is not a physicist. As much as anyone else who drops out of college is a physicist. Is this the new-age way? Especially if they then start essentially down the same path as the likewise infamous Dr. Mercola. Making prognostications about human health and in Lovins case, pontificating about energy systems that likewise are affecting government policy/human health?

 * I also hope I don't need to make it obvious that the listing of honorary degrees is genuinely not some more disturbingly transparent hand-waving, as in what world does the receiving of college campus-popularity-contest-prizes, make anyone anything else, but popular in what is the deeply ideological-crazed domain of, the college campus? What metric of expertise does that convey, other than the ability to con impressionable youth?

 * If you're still on the fence over the recognition of this person and their 'institute' as WP:FRINGE. Then perhaps this secondary source People, Politics and the Struggle by Berman, O'Connor might do it. | Citing the wisdom of Amory Lovins, Berman and O’Connor tell us that using energy is morally wrong. Amory Lovins’s wisdom: “For over 90 percent of energy uses, electricity is an indefensible luxury]

 * Ok?...Lovins wants us back in the caves, with just enough electricity to read his wikipedia article then, we take it? Yet in this article, no mention to any of these bizarre beliefs are made, nothing about how he isn't an accredited physicist, noting about how he openly advocated and advertised for increased coal usage, none of it is ever mentioned. You're told he is a physicist, a professional of high-standing, who influences the world. Wait, but isn't that just like how fans of Dr. Mercola, would describe him, then?

 * Boundarylayer (talk) 03:11, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

 * FYI an MA from Oxford is roughly equivalent to a BSc or BA elsewhere (except more than that, since it's from Oxford, which is far more prestigious). They don't just hand them to you for enrolling! A friend of mine's brother got an MA, but he was doing a PhD in Chemistry, but in the last few weeks his entire experiment detonated, and so he couldn't finish his research. He went 'fuck it', and left, and got an MA as a consolation. But you don't just get it for enrolling. ;) GliderMaven (talk) 04:25, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

 * I don't know where Rod Adams got that particular piece of information from, however the story of Lovins' education is on very shaky ground. As per his research. Moreover, there is also the possibility that in the sixties in which this is said to have occurred, 'Oxford' could very well have had a consolation enrollment policy...that let's say...could have been very different in the handing out of MAs than your modern anecdotal case, conveys. All we know is secondary sources have put a lot of question marks over this 'physicist' description that seems to be everywhere, yet no actual evidence for it exists. There also seems to be this, a quote by Lovins, himself?

 * 'My status as a Harvard and Oxford dropout with only honorary doctorates (currently 12) and an Oxford MA by Special Resolution (by virtue of being a don) should not surprise anyone, as it’s explicit in many of my shorter biographies' - Lovins, the 'physicist'?

 * in addition to physics, he studied law, linguistics, and chemistry. But when, in his junior year, he was told he would have to complete a major he dropped out and moved to England-Why specifically there, no one knows? He attended Oxford until he was once again pushed toward a prescribed course of study, at which point he quit school again. Lovins the physicist? Lovins the 'great', or Lovins 'the voice' for all those others who fail at college and take money from big oil? It's all becoming so clear now.

 * Boundarylayer (talk) 07:52, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

'Guru' and big-oil interests business man?
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/01/22/mr-green Environmentalism’s optimistic guru Amory Lovins by Elizabeth Kolbert. I don’t do problems” is how Lovins once put it to me. “I do solutions.”

Lovins makes his living as the C.E.O. of [XYZ energy advocacy company, and hey look it's located in guitarist, John Denver's old haunt, yo how 'rad' man]...it now employs more than fifty people

Employing fifty people to promote your brand of clearly nonsensical 'soft-energy', would fairly obviously mean, there is something of a major conflict of interest when say actual accredited scientists or agencies come along, as they routinely do and publish things that as a 'guru', would know, could upset the apple-cart of their business? Does it not? Something that is a little concerning.

Life as, the fossil fuel funded, 'soft-energy' guru

 * 1) In 1969 oil tycoon and largest land owner in the US Robert Orville Anderson, contributed $200,000 in personal funds to launch the self-described 'radical environmental group', Friends of the Earth.

 * 1) By 1971—Lovins had come under the influence of David Brower, the charismatic founder of Friends of the Earth, and he went to work for the organization in London.

 * 1) In 1971, Lovins dropped out of college for the second time to become a full time employee of FOE. In October 1976, Foreign Affairs, a publication owned by the oil industry-linked Council on Foreign Relations, published Energy Strategy: The Road Not Taken?, which is described as a landmark essay that introduced Lovins to the world as an energy strategy guru.

 * 1) In Top 11 Reasons to Oppose Nuclear Power, Once Amory Lovins manufactured some arguments against nuclear power in the early 1970s, this tactic became the anti-nuclear power argument

Though no mention to his source of income in the seventies, work for an organization set up by an oil tycoon and beginning of Lovins as the anti-nuclear spokesman, shall be made in this article?

Boundarylayer (talk) 09:33, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

 * Nothin' like a good old c-o-n-s-p-i-r-a-c-y theory to delegitimize a person whose work you don't like. Sheesh. Anomalous+0 (talk) 06:00, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

This debacle just sucks. One thing comes to mind when mentioned waking up Sunday morning hearing the crews putting in a bike lane. If street parking was so important, how did they manage to stripe bike lanes with cars parked there? Was there even one single car parked there that day? Sounds like not. People just want their damned “just in case” parking spot. You never know how much parking you’ll need! What if I have a big party with all my multi-generational extended family and friends? Looking forward to the supposed middle ground solution that is somehow in the middle between the bare minimum (pained lines) and nothing. As Watts (I think) suggested, maybe speed bumps. Speed bumps and sharrows I bet. Or maybe just painted speed bumps. 173.164.116.25 (talk) 03:27, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Amory Lovins


text:
Talk:Trajan's Dacian Wars

Troops
The number of troops for the Dacians and Romans was put to more realistic numbers, acording to ancient sources. User:Macedon19
 * The current number don't seem to be correct though since the whole roman army throughout including auxiliaries mustered around 300,000 men. That more than half of that participated in the dacian war seems highly unlikely to me. Though it is known that Trajan relocated troops from from the east and scotland for the dacian wars, the battle descriptions like usually mentioned only 4-5 legions to be involved. That means roughly 20,000-25,000 legionaires and you can probably add the same amount for auxiliary troops. With that we are are at > 50,000 troops but that is still far from the numbers currently claimed in the infobox (120,000-150,000). Also the version claims to have changed the number according to reknowned historians, but fails to cite them. --Kmhkmh (talk) 18:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Convoluted Speech
Can we change the line which explains how Trajan was a "true and honourable" emperor? It sounds a little moralistic and anachronistic to me.

Need an reorganization of series of articles
cross-posted of To-do dropped here 8 Nov 2007 and from here
 * Dacian Wars :re: Roman conquest of Dacia has a number of articles that are repetitive and need reorganized. Moreover, appear orphaned with stubs remaining unpolished and unfinished. (I just stumbled in there!)

 * Naming of articles like First and Second Dacian Wars is non-sensical in light of origin in the actual first war before Trajan, and redundant to the Dacian Wars article itself. Some standard needs be applied and materials moved, as needed.
 * There are three separate battles of Tapae (near the village of Bucova, Banat in Romania) with two separate peace treaties with two Roman Emperors.

 * Strongly suggest renaming First and Second as second and third respectively, leaving first for the 87 AD-88 AD now as the article "First Battle of Tapae" (which covers the first two (Battles of Tapae) despite the title!).

 * Further, I surmise that "Tapae" itself was an outlying bastion as my recent wording in Dacian Wars says, but that needs confirmed, and with three Battles there, some stub of an article ought to be created for the place.
 * If First Battle of Tapae is accepted as the first war, then that needs renamed and fleshed out, with division into the respective battles. Its currently very sparse, and the whole is reliant on only a single web source.
 * I'll be glad to pitch in a bit, but the naming issues (and ignorance of the standards for such names) suggests I yell for help before acting too WP:BOLD. Unfortunately, I'm also hip deep in other projects, so... Help! (Can someone drop me a link to where this discussion goes after this to-do list post! Thanks) // Fra nkB 20:07, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Naming the conflict
At the request of fabartus, from the Oxford Classical Dictionary:
 * "Decebalus": Decebalus, king of Dacia... In 88, Domitian...concluded a generous peace by which Decebalus was established as a king friendly to Rome. Trajan...invaded Dacia (101-2) and imposed a peace settlement...In 105 Trajan went to war again, apparently in response to Decebalus' infractions of the treaty.
 * "Dacia": was situated in the loop of the lower Danube, consisting mainly of the plateau of Transylvania, but extending in a wider sense eastwards to the Sereth and north to the Vistula. ... Conquest of Dacia was effected by Trajan in the First and Second Dacian Wars (101-2, 105-6). (emph mine)
 * More to come. Her Pegship  (tis herself) 22:35, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Some citations
From The Provinces of the Roman Empire: The European Provinces, by Theodor Mommsen, c1968, University of Chicago Press, LCCN 68-16708: the author refers to the conflict from c.85-90 BC as the "Dacian war of Domitian", and the later war, from 101-2, as the "Dacian war of Trajan", then the 105-6 war as the "second Dacian war" (footnotes, p. 231-235). Admittedly this tome is 40 years old, and nomenclature may have changed. But it's a start. Her Pegship  (tis herself) 23:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Confusing labelling
This article cannot make up its mind whether it is covering the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Dacian Wars. We should always use the conventional naming. Only Trajan's wars are known conventionally as the "Dacian Wars". So Domitian's war against the Dacians should not be called the "1st Dacian War". Trajan's wars should be known as the 1st and 2nd Dacian Wars.

Therefore, I propose to rename this article Dacian Wars (i.e. merge it with the existing article with that name); and to rename Battle of Tapae, which covers Domitian's war, Domitian's Dacian War Any comments? EraNavigator (talk) 06:44, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Ethnic Cleansing and genocide
The second Dacian war appears to have been more brutal than Rome's average conquest, with the rapid extinction of Dacia's language and culture occuring with Roman colonisation. This should probably be included with the consequences of the war rather than talking about Trajan as a gaining honour. M-Henry (talk) 11:40, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The first war (ending part, peace)
The peace at the first war with Trajan does not give the correct information. Actually the peace wasn't in favor for dacians how it's says here "... since the "peace" was actually lost by the Roman Empire. According to the peace terms, Decebalus got technical and military reinforcement from the Romans in order to create a powerful allied zone against the dangerous possible expeditions from the northern and eastern territories by hostile migrating peoples. The resources were, however, used to rebuild Dacian fortresses and strengthen the army. Soon thereafter Decebalus turned against the Romans once again.". If someone can, please search again and correct the information. P.S. This peace happened in A.D. 89 under Domitian's rule. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.100.58.196 (talk) 13:26, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Copyedit
Per request, took a run through this. Comments:

 * The footnotes should be complemented by more complete citations of the works. templates help link the two.
 * A clarification about the Roman's interest would be welcome. Was it purely a reaction to the Dacian's misbehavior or was it about their gold and other resources?
 * The article's title gives too much credit to the emperor. How about "Roman/Dacian wars"?

Feedback welcome. Cheers. Lfstevens (talk) 21:21, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

IP edits
Dear IP,

I see no reason to remove the percentage, please discuss here, thank you.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:40, 9 October 2020 (UTC))

The percentage was added by you quite recently without any citation to back up such a specific claim. Why should it stand? Where do you get it from? If one takes a look at edit history, it went from "Part of..." to "14-20%" to "Most of..." and now back to "14-20%". 188.148.74.60 (talk) 02:59, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, I see too this was earlier.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:04, 9 October 2020 (UTC))

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:25, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Europe1070811.png

Typo's in footnotes and citations.
This appears to be a problem with both the Italian and English versions of the article. Footnote 4 originally cited "Cassius Dio, LVIII, 14, 4-5." However, I checked Book 58 of Roman history by Cassius Dio, and both the book and section do not cover the prisoners, or the Dacian war. However, when I checked book 68, the section does comment on the prisoners. Therefor, I have fixed the typo by replacing LVIII with LVXIII in Footnote 4.

The Italian version of the article appears to have this problem. By using chromes auto-translate function to translate the quotes in the article attributed to book LVIII. Some of the quotes appear to be from "LVXIII" and not "LVIII". I do not speak Italian, so I have not attempted to fix the typos there due to the language barrier. However, I suggest that these typos get fixed in the Italian article, so they cite to LVXIII and not LVIII. Randitor (talk) 23:37, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Trajan's Dacian Wars


text:
Talk:Jugurthine War

Untitled
I thought, Jughurtha died in prison, 7 days in dungeon.

Untitled
I feel it significant to note that this article seems to be written entirely (or almost entirely) from Sallust's "The Jugurthine War." While this is not necessarily a bad thing, as this is one of the most complete histories of the war that we have, I think it is important to realize that most of the information in this article comes from a single source and carries with it that source's not-so-thinly-veiled biases. A major changing of the article is perhaps unnecessary, but a disclaimer of sorts could be helpful.

-More importantly, maybe, I feel that this article is simply not very well written. It is rather unsophisticated in its approach and language, and simply doesn't read very well. I may attempt to fix the language somewhat without actually changing any of the information soon if I can find the time.

130.64.31.197 (talk) 17:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)Eilos

RE: Concerns on source bias
How do people feel about the work of Ober and Strauss in Anatomy of Error on the Jugurthine War? 99.59.128.43 (talk) 14:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC) Joseph Paul

"Filed objection" (moved here from article)
Filed Objection: The cited "Saluste" in "Jugurtinian Wars" clearly states that Jugurtha was the nephew of the King Massinissa, through his father(brother of Massinissa) and his concubine. Having a personal relationship with Jugurtha, Saluste also qualifies Jugurtha's nephewsMacipsa and his brother, as toddlers - whom Rome favored for the throne, for obvious reasons - in place of Jugurtha who in his 20s, had already won more than one war, on behalf of Rome, and was the assigned commander of the King's (Massinissa) army, by trust and merit. Your gibbrish below and elsewhere, is to be put in the same category as the rest of your "opinions", starting with the placing the Amazigh People and Heritage, in the 7th and 8th century. The rest of your account of the Amazigh heritage and culture, contradicts what you/author are obligated to consider. A 1000s of years of history and evolution, which amongst other things has produced and Alphabet and a grammar of many branches. The first written mention and relating the word Barbarians by Rome, is to be found in the Salust account of the Jugurtinian wars, and not before. For Catalania to be the "commercial partner" of the Phoenicians instead of the Numedians, you qualify as "with nothing/products to offer", one has to assume some superiority, which the Numidian Army, under Jugurtha acquired for Rome, in one battle. Your/author inconsistencies are of the same king found in the islamic stories and those of the analphabet psychopath prophet. (For IP 173.17.204.81)

Dubious
This article has a fair amount of fairly dubious information. Among other things:

71.167.7.218 (talk) 05:50, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Sallust lived in the 1st century, and so could not have written about the "Fall of the Roman Empire"
 * The historicity of the Marian reforms are disputed at best, so reference to that seems to be wrong.
 * Lynda Telfort, Sulla: A Dictator Reconsidered does not look like a reputable source -- it is written by an amateur with no formal training and a fair amount of culture war axes to grind
 * A lot of the commentary seems to parrot Sallust's analysis on events (especially regarding the putative corruption of the Roman Senate). While Sallust is a crucial source, he's also an incredibly biased one and not all his claims should be taken at face value.

title: Talk:Jugurthine War


text:
Talk:Kitos War

Chronology
The article reads, "But Turbo was himself executed upon special orders sent from Rome, and the lives of the brothers were saved." The article seems to place this around 117/8 CE. Indeed, the war lasted, according to the 1st article sentence, from 115 - 117 CE. However, the article on Turbo says he lived to at least 122 CE and was a good friend of both Trajan and Hadrian, making it unlikely they would send special orders to execute him. This does not add up.

Quintus Lucius Quietus
Is there a source for the name form "Quintus Lucius Quietus"? I found only evidence for "Lusius" or "Lucius Quietus". WolfgangRieger 21:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Changed "Palestine" to Iudaea, as the Province of Iudaea was not renamed Syria Palaestina until after 135 ad. User:Josephconklin 24 February 2006

Casualties
As per Humus_sapiens, I posted the casualty info that I could find. Anyone else that can add to either Roman, Greek, or Jewish losses, please update and post scholarly reference. Thank you. --Jtpaladin 20:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

 * The numbers you have posted are incredibly unrealistic. If those are the only ones you could find then I would suggest either not including them or including qualifiers and adding ambiguity about their accuracy.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 18:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Moshe, those numbers came from the Jewish Encyclopedia and were approved by Humus_sapiens. Is the Jewish Encyclopedia lying? No other source has been located that disputes those numbers and you've been here long enough to know that multiple citations are not needed to support a fact. Your actions are disgusting and unscholarly. If you have a problem with this matter, I suggest you speak to Humus_sapiens. Jtpaladin 14:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Those numbers do indeed seem quite unrealistic. While I will not completely discount them, I think additional source(s) would help confirm their legitimacy.  My reasoning is that by that time in history, the romans had already become quite hostile toward Judaism, and the numbers may be exaggerated as a result of this hostility. Medevilenemy (talk) 00:24, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Kitos?
Why is it called the Kitos War? What's Kitos? --AW 16:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that it is a Hebrew disruption of the name Quietus - The main enemy of them in this war.
 * Thanks --AW (talk) 18:18, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Why are people trying to Transliterate the primary Article name into English, when there is a Scholarly English name "Second Jewish Revolt" makes a lot more sense? How big would spelling tests in school be if every word in the world was transliterated into English spelling? DigDeep4Truth (talk) 04:37, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Look at the dates -- they're about 15 years apart. AnonMoos (talk) 05:14, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

 * You mean 7 years apart? Why does the time matter? How does a dividing line help? DigDeep4Truth (talk) 09:39, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

 * They started about 15 years apart. One set the stage for the other, but they were not the same. AnonMoos (talk) 13:51, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Why is an English Title not right for an English Wiki article? ` DigDeep4Truth (talk) 07:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Not sure what English has to do with it -- the choice is between Latin and Hebrew. Anyway, Wikipedia usually goes with the most commonly-used name... AnonMoos (talk) 08:18, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

The question of casualties
82.119.85.227 (talk) 01:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC) Those indicating the number of casualties in article are having for sure a quite strange attitude. Those numbers are not only seaming but sure are obviously exaggerated from the historian and senator Dio Cassius – that can be because of his hostility towards both Jewish and Greeks, and because also his works are more literary than historical and scientific. The island of Cyprus is quite small and having today population of less than 800 thousand, pointing 240 thousand dead would be making population growing only two or three times until now which view the growth of population in Europe and Mediterranean is absurd. Same can be said about Cyrenaic – mountain peninsula with few Greek colonies.

In the same time why not indicating the Jewish casualties which official Jewish sources are pointing – that is of 1,2 million of Jewish dead (they are pointed in Jewish Bible), the number is seaming quite realistic as the Jewish Diaspora was growing incredibly fast with dispersion of Jews – as free populations or as slaves, and the number of proselytes was quite high (like every Antique religion Jewish one though staying quite undeveloped was finding adepts among different populations) – as a Jewish author was saying “because every land and every sea are full of thee”. The case of revolt can be sure similar to the Sicilian revolts of slaves which were establishing their states on island for few years. It is sure anyway that the number of Jews in empire was already then very high. They were actually already pointed more from their religious and not much their unclear ethnical definitions. The hostility towards the Roman power was also caused from religious reasons. Jewish populations were reaching in empire number of few millions.

The answer of Roman armies towards a revolt of the kind was always severe and would be directed towards any Jewish populations in empire – able of supporting revolt. Roman policy was though always directed towards having also a political solution for decreasing the different tensions in the state.

“Kitos war” and its principal reasons
Cheboksari (talk) 02:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC) As the so called “Kitos war” was concurring with time of the greatest and unprecedented spreading of Christianity in East Hellenist provinces of empire, it was representing so most probably an anti-Christian or Christian plot either a quite characteristic combination of both which would be punishing East provinces for their Christian tendencies and directions or would be proving the cruelty and inhumanity of “Old Testament” and Old Faith compared to Christian religion whose adepts were and should be always ready of suffering and of renouncing everything for their Christian faith (which seeming absurd for any "Pagans"). For the purpose Romans and Greeks would be (for a first time) using the Jewish populations, much numerous in any of provinces of empire (and defined by their religious belonging), which were principally opposing and opposed to new Christian religion (that principal opposition was started already in the 1st c. A D after the birth and deeds of the messiah – Son of God or illegitimate son of Roman soldier as the non-Christian sources pointing). Jewish were for a strange reason revolting in lands out of Palestine and this way out of their religious and political interest, where final victory was sure impossible and where revolt was not bringing much profit (except of provoking bloody answer of Roman armies). For their directed venture the Jewish were paying with 1,2 millions dead (pointed in Jewish Bible).

The forming principally later Judeo-Christian Mafia – for whom later the Jewish were becoming the “Chosen people” of the newly created and imagined Christian and Platonic God (instead of the original Jewish version of the people contracting with their tribal and "jealous" god of Jehovah – one of many as pointed in First Commandment) – was then probably still not trying of creating for Jewish a privileged economical and social situation characteristic for Middle Ages and later – when newly born bourgeoisie was wanting (without danger of being somehow bothered for that – and that’s why Jewish – first to have such positions and occupations should be there exceptionally supported and protected) following steps and example and sharing the positions of Jewish usurers, merchants and profiteers (robbing in unimaginable way common populations). The Kitos war was sure also a reason for later emp. Hadrian banishing Jewish from Palestine after local Bar-Kokhba uprising.

 * What a load of tripe. The Christian religion was miniscule at this stage and it certainly had no effect on the Kitos War. This was a Jewish uprising, simple as that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.43.227.18 (talk) 01:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

 * Before writing some nonsense like that be sure of checking some well known facts, could be even enough reading something widely known like “Quo Vadis” by Henryk Sienkiewicz. Already in Apostolic times Christianism was one of important and much principal religious and social directions of empire – quite differing any another and becoming for that principally opposed from main layers of Roman rule and society (that is making Nero accusing widely opposed and hated Christians for set from him great fire of Rome, which is so becoming the first great persecution of Christians) and also from its “Abrahamic” rivals and enemies like Jews.

 * (Christians were the rivals of Judaists in Palestine and rest of empire, but from beginning of history of Christian sect it was principally established with its followers and religious leaders in city of Rome, though spreading also in whole rest of empire.)

 * For illustrating that situation I’m proposing here a correspondence between Plinius Junior, substitute in 111-113 of emperor Traianus in northwest Anatolian province “of Bithynia and Pontus”, and emperor Traianus himself, the governor is writing: “This religion is spreading everywhere, not only in cities and villages, but also in whole country, the Temples (of Pagans) are deserted, and people are since long not making sacrifices… with them (the Christians) is existing a rite of gathering into their certain places before rising of sun and praying Christ as a God”.

 * Traian is himself much alarmed about the situation and is also pointing in his correspondence with the governor “The one that denies being Christian and virtually proves this – that is with prayers towards our Gods, let him be then reprieved because of his repentance, however would he be suspicious by his past. But the attached anonymous lists shouldn’t be reason for accusations of any kind, as that would be one too bad example and yet is not responding to the spirit of our time”, Traianus is publishing an edict against “Secret Societies” and “Superstitions”, which principally concerning Christians.

 * Christianism had sure a principal importance for Rome as principal enemy of Roman state and ideology, when Jews had never had any principal importance for Rome, the Jewish “uprising” was sure unique of its kind in history of Jews, and, like said, was having no any chances for success or interest and profit and having as only result 1,2 million of Jews dead – it is so sure that Jewish were used for their venture by different directions of Roman society and policy (for some of which they could be considered as allies or opponents as being sure among principal enemies of Christianity).
 * Cheboksari (talk) 00:53, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

 * In the early 2nd century A.D. Christianity was gaining ground among the urban lower classes in certain parts of the Roman empire, and Christians were convenient targets of persecution or scapegoating (since in the eyes of many they were "atheists -- i.e. unwilling to participate on ordinary civic rituals that involved pagan deities or the worship of the emperor's "genius" -- but insofar as Christianity was separate from Judaism, not entitled to the special permission granted to Jews to abstain from such rituals). However, Christianity was really not a major force within the Roman empire at that time. AnonMoos (talk) 05:24, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Trajan was the first from emperors trying of systematically erasing Christian „superstition“ – seeing it as an enemy of Roman state. It is for sure that Christianity was major trouble, danger and opposition for Roman power already at time of Trajan, and also continuing growing as such. The preoccupation, concern, alarm of emperor, his edicts, policy, writings are clearly pointing that.
 * Cheboksari (talk) 00:25, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Paraphrase
This article includes sections of text quoted directly from the Jewish encyclopedia. Although references are given the relevant passages should be rewritten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.177.205.224 (talk) 13:14, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Dio Cassius
Shouldn't there be something with the Dio Cassius quote that states it might come from a biased observer? His text is displayed as if it was full of facts from an objective reporter. His claims seem to be grossly exaggerated and I think it certainly plausible that he was embellishing them due to his own biases. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.240.55 (talk) 22:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

The article on the revolt by Alexander FUKS
I am surprised that no one mentioned yet the article by Alexander Fuks, that collects all available information from the papyri e.t.c.

I will have liked to create an account, read some information texts, add the reference... But I am a bit pressed for time. So..., if anyone from those that have read it agrees that it should be mentioned, here's the reference:

Aspects of the Jewish Revolt in A.D. 115-117 Alexander Fuks The Journal of Roman Studies Vol. 51, Parts 1 and 2 (1961), pp. 98-104 (article consists of 7 pages) Published by: Society for the Promotion of Roman Studies Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/298842

Regards, -. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.149.168.135 (talk) 20:25, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * A good source, thank you. Can someone insert the info?Greyshark09 (talk) 16:52, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Change of title to: "Second Jewish-Roman War"
Since the current title, "Kitos War," has very little recognition in academic circles, it is my suggestion that the title of this article be changed to "Second Jewish-Roman War." Any comments?Davidbena (talk) 23:01, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

The original 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia quote
The second sentence of the two quoted here doesn't make sense, but it could just be a question of re-punctuation. Does anyone have the original 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia to verify it? Nick Barnett (talk) 12:10, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kitos War


text:
Talk:Aengus

Caer
On November 1, Caer and the other girls would turn into a swan for one year.

What does this mean? This is very unclear phrasing. Also, when you follow the link to Caer, it has a very unclear artical that seems better suited to a disambiguation page and that has less information than the sentence(s) on Caer in this artical. -- Akako  |  ☎  19:25, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Poetic inspiration/poems?
I was going to add a section on the poems and works that have notable content that are based/inspired by Aengus in mythology. By that I mean such as William Butler Yeats's poem entitled "The Song of Wandering Aengus" which deals with the god as representing youthful love, beauty, and the search that lasts a long time for love itself. The problem I am having is not just one problem, but several. I can not seem to find any other basis for the idea that he inspired many poems than this one poem. Yet many sources portray him as a poetic inspiration god. Any ideas? Or even any other examples to help out on this issue? --Melune (talk) 20:14, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

He shows up in Stephens' The Crock of Gold. I have included this in the article. Larry Koenigsberg (talk) 22:24, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Aengus Life-Death-Life diety?
I read in the works of Irish and Scottish writers in the first decade of twentieth century (William Sharp and Alasdair MacCaba) that there are tales of Aengus sleeping during the winter and awakening in spring. If true then Aengus is an Irish Tammuz?

title: Talk:Aengus


text:
Lockheed Martin Solar and Astrophysics Laboratory

The Lockheed Martin Solar and Astrophysics Laboratory (LMSAL) is part of the Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Center (ATC) that is known primarily for its scientific work in the field of solar physics, astronomy and space weather. The LMSAL team is part of Lockheed Martin Space Systems and has close affiliations with NASA and the solar physics group at Stanford University.

Located in Palo Alto, California, LMSAL is involved in many ground- and space-based missions that study the Sun, with a sharp focus on basic research into understanding and predicting space weather and the behavior of the Sun, including its impacts on Earth and climate.

Space weather
Enormous storms on the Sun driven by electromagnetic activity generate space weather that propagates outward across the Solar System and can cause severe disturbances of Earth's upper atmosphere and of the near-Earth space environment, with potential catastrophic impacts on ground- and space-based technological infrastructure.

In October 2011 the ATC co-sponsored a workshop entitled "Space Weather Risks and Society" that brought together a broad international spectrum of experts in solar and space weather, industry, economics, regulatory bodies, and emergency management to discuss the societal impacts of space weather, how to avoid or mitigate such impacts, and how to respond to them. An understanding of space weather and – in particular – its impacts on society are in their infancy, but there is broad agreement that societal sensitivity to high-impact, low-frequency events is obviously substantial. Equally important is the need to thoroughly investigate how space weather impacts various components of our high-tech society, and identify the mechanisms by which it does so.

Solar missions
LMSAL has a 49-year-long heritage of spaceborne solar instruments including:
 * 1962 to 1985 – At least 20 NASA sounding rocket flights carrying LMSAL solar and astrophysics payloads were launched.
 * 1975 – The Mapping X-Ray Heliometer (MXRH) on NASA's Orbiting Solar Observatory 8 satellite
 * 1980 – The X-ray polarimeter (XRP) on NASA's Solar Maximum Mission satellite
 * 1985 – The Solar Optical Universal Polarimeter on STS-51F Space Shuttle mission. Dr. Loren Acton of LMSAL served as a payload specialist/astronaut on the mission and operated the instrument during two weeks in space.
 * 1991 – The Soft X-ray Telescope on the Japanese Yohkoh satellite
 * 1995 – The Michelson Doppler Imager on the ESA/NASA SOHO
 * 1998 – The solar telescope on NASA's Transition Region and Coronal Explorer (TRACE)
 * 2006 – The extreme-ultraviolet imager instruments on NASA's twin Solar Terrestrial Relations (STEREO) spacecraft
 * 2006, 2009, 2010 – The Solar X-ray Imagers SXI on GOES-N, -O and –P spacecraft
 * 2006 – The focal-plane package on the Japanese Hinode (Solar-B) satellite
 * 2010 – The atmospheric imaging assembly and the helioseismic and magnetic imager on NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO)
 * Two of the instruments for the next generation GOES-R satellites – the Geostationary Lightning Mapper (GLM) and the Solar Ultraviolet Imager (SUVI) – are currently under construction.
 * 2013 – The spacecraft and the science instrument for NASA's Interface Region Imaging Spectrograph (IRIS), a Small Explorer Mission.


text:
Arriva Scotland West

Arriva Scotland West was a bus company based in Inchinnan, near Paisley, Scotland. It was formed in 1997 as a rebranding of the former Clydeside 2000 company when purchased by Arriva. On 26 March 2012, the business was sold to McGill's Bus Services.

History
Clydeside was formed as Clydeside Scottish in June 1985 from the northern operations of Western SMT to prepare the state-owned parent company, the Scottish Bus Group, for deregulation.

At the time, Clydeside's operating area was much larger, covering Inverclyde (including the towns of Gourock and Greenock), the Isle of Bute and much of the south side of Glasgow. Clydeside was re-merged with Western Scottish (Western SMT's successor company) in 1989 in an attempt to make it more financially viable. However, on the privatisation of Western Scottish the Clydeside operations were sold in a management buyout as Clydeside 2000 plc with Luton & District taking a 23% stake. Clydeside began rationalising some of its operations, and depots at Largs, Paisley and Thornliebank were closed, the latter as a result of a reduction in operations within Glasgow.

In November 1994, Clydeside 2000 was sold to British Bus, who had just completed the take over of shareholder Luton & District. The new parent company began investing heavily in the ageing fleet. A more vibrant red, white and yellow livery was introduced, and new "Flagship" routes were created to raise quality levels. Clydeside Buses was included in the 1 August 1996 sale of British Bus to the Cowie Group, which in November 1997 was rebranded as Arriva.

The main competitor in Greenock, Ashton Coaches, was purchased along with 62 buses in July 1997. The Greenock operations were re-branded GMS Greenock Motor Services, using Ashton's white, green and gold livery, in order to more effectively combat the plethora of small operators in the town. Long established independent operator McGill's Bus Services of Barrhead was also purchased in the same month, and initially continued to operate under its own identity. A stake was also taken in Dart Buses of Paisley, another competitor, though this operator would soon go out of business.

Shortly after being launched as Arriva Scotland West in 1998, the company flirted with operations outside its traditional operating area, successfully securing tenders to operate services in Cumbernauld (where a depot was established for a few years) and south east Glasgow, though these were short-lived. It is said that Cumbernauld prompted "the look east". Arriva tried to expand further in Scotland by purchasing Xplore Dundee but they went to National Express instead. It was also interested in purchasing Midland Bluebird and a Strathclyde Buses depot if they were sold following the OFT's requirements for First to sell them but Stagecoach's increased attempts at competing for the Greater Glasgow bus market put paid to that. Later that year, Arriva tried to run contracted services in Edinburgh. Lothian Buses had run the services for a while but when it was time to renew said contracts, the council considered Lothian's new tender prices to be too expensive. So then it invited other operators the opportunity to participate instead and was pleasantly surprised to see bids from Arriva using new low floor buses, for a substantially cheaper price than Lothian! The tenders were accepted but shortly before they were due to commence, the council was advised that Arriva had withdrawn their bids. In a move that some might consider to be of a dubious nature, Lothian also stated later that day that they could run the contracts for free when previously it couldn't. Exactly how that is still remains a mystery to this day.

Further rationalisation took place in 2001, with the Inverclyde operations being sold to local management. Confusingly, the new operation was branded as McGill's Bus Services - the company name and operating licence having been purchased with McGill's of Barrhead - based in Port Glasgow, and employing a livery of blue, white and gold in the same styles as both Arriva and the GMS division, depending on what type of vehicle it was applied to. At the same time, the Barrhead depot, originally belonging to the initial McGill's Bus Service, was closed and operations concentrated on the two remaining depots.

In 2007, BAA awarded the new Glasgow Flyer 500 service to Arriva, which bought eleven specially liveried Wright Eclipse bodied Volvo B7RLEs for the service. As a result, the 905 Airlink service, jointly operated with Fairline Coaches under contract to Scottish Citylink, ended; however Fairline have since started an independent service numbered 905.

In August 2010 the company, along with First Glasgow, were banned by the area Traffic Commissioner from registering any new services into Glasgow city centre for six months after being found guilty of breaching regulations by picking up and dropping off passengers at locations other than their designated bus stops. One other operator was also banned.

In December 2011, Arriva announced it had agreed to sell the business to McGill's Bus Services. The transaction was referred to the Competition Commission, before being approved in 2012.

Fleet
Below is a list of each depot fleet before the sale to McGill's. Most buses were transferred over to McGill's as part of the deal when the assets of Arriva Scotland West were sold to McGill's.

Inchinnan Depot
Location: Inchinnan (Greenock Road)
 * 2 Volvo B7RLE / Wright Eclipse
 * 29 Dennis Dart SLF / Plaxton Pointer
 * 3 DAF SB120 / Wright Cadet
 * 2 VDL SB120 / Wright Cadet
 * 10 VDL SB200/ Wright Pulsar 2
 * 4 VDL SB200/ Wright Commander
 * 6 Scania OmniLink

Johnstone Depot
Location: Johnstone (Cochranemill Road)
 * 1 Dennis Dart / Northern Counties Paladin
 * 16 Dennis Dart / Plaxton Pointer 1
 * 54 Dennis Dart SLF / Alexander ALX200
 * 23 Dennis Dart SLF / Plaxton Pointer
 * 3 Mercedes-Benz Citaro
 * 9 Volvo B7RLE / Wright Eclipse
 * 2 DAF SB3000 / Van Hool Alizee
 * 5 Scania N113 / East Lancs
 * 2 Volvo B6 / Plaxton Pointer (Trainer vehicles)
 * 3 Mercedes-Benz Vario / Plaxton Beaver
 * 1 Optare MetroRider (Staff vehicle)
 * 5 Volvo B10B / Wright Endurance
 * 2 Volvo B6LE / Wright Crusader
 * 2 Dennis Dart SLF / Wright Crusader
 * 2 Dennis Dart SLF / East Lancs Spryte

title: Arriva Scotland West


text:
Damaged Justice

Damaged Justice was the fourth concert tour by the American heavy metal band Metallica. It began on September 11, 1988, and ended on October 8, 1989. The name is believed to be inspired either by the cover of its fourth studio album ...And Justice for All, or by the song "Damage, Inc." from the group's previous album, Master of Puppets. The single "One" was released during the tour.

Itinerary
The Damaged Justice tour began in Europe on September 11, 1988, and Royal Air Force were the supporting act on the tour's first few dates. Metallica then played two Monsters of Rock shows in Spain with Iron Maiden, Anthrax and Helloween, and played a few headlining shows with Anthrax, before heading to the UK, where Danzig served as the opening act. Queensrÿche replaced Danzig for the remainder of the European leg and also served as the supporting act for the tour's first North American leg. Following this was Metallica's first tour of Australia, which included support by Mortal Sin. The Cult were the opening act for the second North American leg of the tour from May 31 to September 1, 1989, and were replaced by Faith No More for remaining tour dates. The Damaged Justice tour concluded with three shows in Brazil in October 1989.

The tour marked the first and, to date, only time that Metallica has played in the U.S. state of Delaware. On August 7, 1989, the band headlined a special and very drunken gig at Newark's Stone Balloon, with Wrathchild America as the supporting act.

Recordings
The Damaged Justice tour was the first time the band had used live recordings of their concerts in single B-Sides and EP's (Those used on the Jump in the Fire single from 1984 were demos with faked audience noise dubbed over). The concert of February 5, 1989 was recorded and "For Whom the Bell Tolls", "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)", "Seek and Destroy" and "Creeping Death" were used as B-Sides for the "One" single in Europe and Japan, as well as the majority of the concert being re-released as part of Fan Can 4.

Both of the August 29 and 30, 1989, shows in Seattle were also recorded and "Harvester of Sorrow", "One", "Breadfan" and "Last Caress" were used for The Good, The Bad and The Live. The same mix of these shows used here was used on the digital re-masters of the band's first four albums when uploaded to digital retailers, though a different set of songs were used in this case, two from the respective album. In 1993, these concerts were re-mixed and released as video in the box set Live Shit: Binge & Purge.

In 2020, Metallica released a live concert video of the Irvine show.

First typical setlist
(Taken from the Madison, Wisconsin, Dane County Coliseum show on November 21, 1988)

 * 1) "Blackened"
 * 2) "For Whom the Bell Tolls"
 * 3) "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)"
 * 4) "Leper Messiah"
 * 5) "Harvester of Sorrow"
 * 6) "Eye of the Beholder"
 * 7) Bass Solo
 * 8) "Master of Puppets"
 * 9) "One"
 * 10) "Seek & Destroy"
 * 11) "...And Justice for All"
 * 12) "Creeping Death"
 * 13) "Fade to Black"
 * 14) Guitar Solo
 * 15) "Battery"
 * 16) "Last Caress" (Originally performed by the Misfits)
 * 17) "Am I Evil?" (Originally performed by Diamond Head)
 * 18) "Whiplash"

Second typical setlist
(Taken from the San Francisco Cow Palace show on December 10, 1988)

 * 1) "Blackened"
 * 2) "For Whom the Bell Tolls"
 * 3) "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)"
 * 4) "The Four Horsemen"
 * 5) "Harvester of Sorrow"
 * 6) "Eye of the Beholder"
 * 7) Bass Solo
 * 8) "Master of Puppets"
 * 9) "One"
 * 10) "Seek & Destroy"
 * 11) "...And Justice for All"
 * 12) "Creeping Death"
 * 13) "Fade to Black"
 * 14) Guitar Solo
 * 15) "Battery"
 * 16) "Last Caress" (Originally performed by the Misfits)
 * 17) "Am I Evil?" (Originally performed by Diamond Head)
 * 18) "Whiplash"
 * 19) "Breadfan" (Originally performed by Budgie)

Third typical setlist
(Taken from the Odessa, Texas, Ector County Coliseum show on January 18, 1989)

 * 1) "Blackened"
 * 2) "For Whom the Bell Tolls"
 * 3) "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)"
 * 4) "The Four Horsemen"
 * 5) "Harvester of Sorrow"
 * 6) "Eye of the Beholder"
 * 7) Bass Solo
 * 8) "Master of Puppets"
 * 9) "One"
 * 10) "Seek & Destroy"
 * 11) "...And Justice for All"
 * 12) "Creeping Death"
 * 13) "Fade to Black"
 * 14) Guitar Solo
 * 15) "Battery"
 * 16) "Last Caress" (Originally performed by the Misfits)
 * 17) "Am I Evil?" (Originally performed by Diamond Head)
 * 18) "Whiplash"

Fourth typical setlist
(Taken from the Seattle Center Coliseum show on August 29, 1989)

 * 1) "Blackened"
 * 2) "For Whom the Bell Tolls"
 * 3) "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)"
 * 4) "Harvester of Sorrow"
 * 5) "The Four Horsemen"
 * 6) "The Thing That Should Not Be"
 * 7) Bass Solo
 * 8) "Master of Puppets"
 * 9) "Fade to Black"
 * 10) "Seek & Destroy"
 * 11) "...And Justice for All"
 * 12) "One"
 * 13) "Creeping Death"
 * 14) Guitar Solo
 * 15) "Battery"
 * 16) "Last Caress" (Originally performed by the Misfits)
 * 17) "Am I Evil?" (Originally performed by Diamond Head)
 * 18) "Whiplash"
 * 19) "Breadfan" (Originally performed by Budgie)

Alternate songs
The setlist remained fairly consistent over the course of the tour. "Blackened" opened every performance with the exception of "Creeping Death" at some concerts in the summer of 1989. "The Wait" was teased as part of the second encore beginning with the spring 1989 Pacific Rim tour. Other covers teased included "Prowler" (originally performed by Iron Maiden), "Helpless", "How Many More Times" by Led Zeppelin and "Black Night" by Deep Purple. "Eye of the Beholder" was often played as the fifth or sixth song, immediately following "Harvester of Sorrow"; it was switched out fairly regularly with "The Four Horsemen". "Leper Messiah" made infrequent appearances in this position as well. "Damage, Inc." followed the bass solo initially (this can be heard on various bootlegs from the fall '88 European tour) but was for the most part phased out by the end of the year and used as an encore when at all. The encores changed almost every night but almost always consisted of the covers "Breadfan" and "Blitzkrieg" (rare) among them as well as the aforementioned "Damage, Inc." and "Motorbreath", from Kill 'Em All. The band also started switching instruments during "Am I Evil?" at certain dates starting in 1989. Lars Ulrich would be on lead vocals, Jason Newsted on guitar, Kirk Hammett on bass and James Hetfield on drums. The group performed it at these shows: Nagoya, Japan, on May 18; Newark, Delaware, on August 7; Irvine, California, on September 23; and São Paulo on October 7.

Around halfway through the tour as the "One" single and video became more successful, it moved further down the setlist to the first encore, and "Fade to Black" would take its spot between "Master of Puppets" and "Seek & Destroy".

Personnel

 * James Hetfield – lead vocals, rhythm guitar
 * Kirk Hammett – lead guitar, backing vocals
 * Lars Ulrich – drums
 * Jason Newsted – bass, backing vocals

title: Damaged Justice


text: User talk:202.77.190.17

title: User talk:202.77.190.17