text:
Talk:Chris Brown

Proposed addition to first sentence/description
I propose the following alteration:

'Christopher Maurice Brown (born May 5, 1989) is an American singer, songwriter, rapper, dancer, actor and family violence perpetrator.

A lot of people know Chris Brown as a result of his assaulting Rihanna. Further, in the case of individuals such as Harvey Weinstein, the description refers both to their profession and to their offending. It seems to me the same should be done here. To do otherwise may be to downplay the significance of Brown's offending. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.200.5.228 (talk) 07:22, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

 * 😂😂😂 Are you seriois rn? You can't conceal your hatred, huh? Joszy6 (talk) 07:25, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
 * False accusations: https://x.com/FormerEmasinm/status/1703540618616586449
 * https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hw2hU9g1ok0giyc-Lw5HngNHoiTSyHEk
 * https://x.com/callme_wat/status/1759242094944612658?s=20
 * Iyanla Vanzant who gave Karrueche an interview knew Karrueche was forming fallacies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJg6VehL8rM
 * https://x.com/yandhitlop/status/1759271534324044213?s=20 Blooey (talk) 14:38, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It's VERY well known that Rihanna started the fight. She was hitting on him for most of the relationship and was also violent towards her family members:
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96gruJQGJTY&t=48s
 * https://people.com/celebrity/chris-brown-and-rihanna-had-a-history-of-violence/
 * https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/arid-30316512.html Blooey (talk) 14:44, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

His domestic violence issues, which he is widely known for, are barely mentioned in the lead.
As the title says. This is the the main thing Chris Brown is known for and it's barely mentioned in a single sentence in the lead. It should be discussed how to implement this into the lead. TheXuitts (talk) 17:36, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It is a stretch to say that is main thing he is known for, he was widely known before the incident for his music and he still is mainly known for his music after. If you personally only know him for this, then I do believe you are in the minority. If you want to discuss adjustments to the lead feel free, but you aren't going to get many people to agree with your statement imo. WikiVirusC (talk) 17:52, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I am also uncomfortable with the way that his violence issues are treated in the article. I think the assertion that it's "the main thing he's known for" is a bit hyperbole and not really relevant to analyzing the treatment of domestic violence in the article. Hyperbolic pretention aside, I do find the treatment of the acts that he's responsible for is a bit lackluster and euphemistic.
 * In the lead:
 * > In 2009, Brown pled guilty to felony assault of his then-girlfriend, singer Rihanna.
 * Is in the middle of the second paragraph (I missed it on first read while specifically looking for it), and accounts for one sentence out of four paragraphs.
 * Furthermore, in the "Legal issues" section:
 * > At around 12:30 a.m. (PST) on February 8, 2009, Brown and his then-girlfriend, singer Rihanna, had an argument that escalated into physical violence, leaving Rihanna with visible severe facial injuries which required hospitalization.
 * So taking the same sentence, it's the "argument [... left] Rihanna with [severe injuries]", not Brown. While in fact, the physical violence and injuries were direct actions perpetrated by Brown. The second paragraph in the section will relate how Brown justified his actions are a result of his upbringing (and implicitly, not of his responsibility).
 * I understand that previous contributors have done the best that they could covering the subject, but I wish to highlight what I find lacking in the current verbiage in the hopes of finding a better way to document the topic on an important issue.
 * From an informal perusal of previous talk page comments, it seems several contributors have also expressed a level of discomfort with the way the subject is touched, without necessarily knowing precisely how to improve it as a practical matter, or how to do so in a way that makes some forms of consensus. I'm hoping we can find those ways to improve the article and to give the issue the treatment that it deserves. Bert Macklin (talk) 09:44, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
 * There’s also a lack of any reference either in legal issues or personal life to the fact that he was served a 5 year restraining order for violence and threats against his ex partner Karrueche Tran. Sarcastathon (talk) 09:32, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I just fixed the "argument beating Rihanna instead of Chris Brown" sentence DollysOnMyMind (talk) 11:01, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Why don't you add a reference to the article talking about Rihanna hitting him during the relationship: https://people.com/celebrity/chris-brown-and-rihanna-had-a-history-of-violence/ Blooey (talk) 14:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Rihanna hit him first and the other accusations were false. Read the "False accusations" section of HIS page.
 * https://people.com/celebrity/chris-brown-and-rihanna-had-a-history-of-violence/
 * https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hw2hU9g1ok0giyc-Lw5HngNHoiTSyHEk
 * https://twitter.com/zerofux_/status/1762208615744651418?t=tsg-yrH9xz4CwzHsLMQwIA&s=19
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96gruJQGJTY&t=48s
 * https://twitter.com/zerofux_/status/1759293132510998709?t=CIRQdT5uK1rz2_6XAqc_Lg&s=19
 * https://x.com/yandhitlop/status/1759271534324044213?s=20
 * https://x.com/callme_wat/status/1759242094944612658?s=20
 * https://twitter.com/FormerEmasinm/status/1703540618616586449 Blooey (talk) 20:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Jamel
Friend back with me and how to my girlfriend keep trying to break up with me if you got another dude on the sidelines and how to care attention she messing with somebody else and I miss my girlfriend can you please help me jamelwilliams@ 2601:407:8680:2E90:54D:14EC:CAA4:FB34 (talk) 17:19, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Sales data in lead is not accurate
Recently the sales data in the lead was changed from 217 million to 140 million. And then from 219 million to 140 million. All based on an albany herald source reporting an outdated certifications tally from the list of best selling music artists wiki article and the language from this article. Brown has certified up to 219 million units. Sales can't fall below that figure, if certifications confirm minimum of 219 million. Using outdated sources to challenge that is nonsensical. Here is another more recent source from Yahoo reporting a figure of 197 million, but this source is also using an outdated certifications tally from the list of best selling music artists wiki article and the language from a previous iteration of this article, similar to what the albany herald article did. It's like arguing that the artist has not released any albums after their debut because an outdated source from his debut era confirms he's in his debut era.

For the time being I've changed the figure in the article to 197 based on the Yahoo source, although this isn't the most accurate either. But since this argument is based on using a secondary source as opposed to certifications tally then lets at least use a more recent one. The source has also been updated in the best selling music artists article. Thanks. Instantwatym (talk) 15:35, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Little improvement but still highly inflated. Look the matter in the following way: You used a reference saying he sold 219 million records, and his certifications are 219 million. It is remotely closed to the reality, if we use de facto procedures to the most artists, contemporary, newer or older than Brown. If the artist has release more records since then, remember that many of the certifications and sales are highly based on streaming. See "Breezy", in it's opening week sold 5K pure copies compared to the 72K equivalent-album units.... His other records follow similar performances, during and after the opening week. Other similar R&B/Pop artists have the same performance, or have more streaming figures than pure units... including big ones... but relies much in the era music industry is now. They count as sales, because IFPI or Billboard do, but these lists are tied more to the real physical/digital copies sold... Otherwise, I don't think you would agree Drake sold more and double than other related artists in this matter like Michael Jackson... --Apoxyomenus (talk) 17:21, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * That is a roundabout argument and not the same precedent being used for other artists. For example, Britney Spears has her sales listed as 150, the same as the certifications tally which includes physical, digital and streaming equivalents. The Albany Herald figure and the Yahoo source you included repeating also listed a certifications tally, albeit an outdated one from a previous interation of this article and the linked article. So arguing against certifications tally while including articles that report an outdated certifications tally is contradictory. 197 is an improvement, albeit it a minor improvement. Streaming equivalents tally to 219 which is neither 197 nor 140 and his US lead certifications are outdated anyways. So 219 is actually a much lower figure than what the actual is. Instantwatym (talk) 19:09, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It's evident that the landscape of music certifications has evolved, no longer directly correlating with record sales. Otherwise, we risk misrepresenting true artistic impact; imagine listing Drake as the best-selling artist instead of the Beatles. Take Britney Spears, for instance, a stalwart in the music industry since 1998. The bulk of her certifications stem from releases predating 2013, a contrast to the trajectory of Chris Brown. Consider his album "INDIGO," certified for 1 million units by RIAA in 2019, yet with only 84,000 copies sold. TheWikiholic (talk) 21:03, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not our business as Wikipedia editors to engage in original research. The argument being made is that one figure (197) is inflated and the other (140) is not when neither source goes into detail about the sales figures and what percentage is attributed to streaming equivalents. The original argument was that 140 is accurate because a secondary source said so. Now that another more recent source lists a higher figure of 197, the goalpost has been shifted to streaming equivalents and what percentage can be attributed to that, when that never came up with the 140 figure and its hard to establish the percentage for either figure. Even if we did, it would be considered OR. Also as stated previously, this precedent of ignoring certifications is not even being adhered to across other articles (e.g., Britney Spears, who has her sales reported as the certified tally which includes her streaming equivalents, the same goes for Usher and Mariah Carey), so what is actually is the standard for reporting sales on these articles because its not consistent. Streaming equivalents exist for a reason and are weighted accordingly, where you need a signficant amount of streams to log a single sale or an album sale. Every new update for claimed sales in the linked article has some percentage attributed to streaming equivalents anyways. By no means is it all pure sales. And I personally don't find it that hard to imagine that Drake has sold more than the Beatles (pure + weight streaming equivalents). Instantwatym (talk) 22:08, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Record sales are difficult to measure, and it is not a Wikipedia thing. Both are secondary sources, so the original research can be applied to both sides. Certifications for instance, are sometimes not updated by record labels for all of their artists. Take as example Michael Buble's Christmas (2011), as took their label almost 10 years certified its U.S. sales (2021), as we can see figures from Nielsen (more than 5 million pure units) vs RIAA. Some acts have almost inmediately updated their certifications. And add that in the post-2013, many are streaming-generated ones. Take the example you brought, Carey, as you might be familiar with her: firms like Nielsen give us the idea the differences between both streaming/pure sales and in her case, she didn't even have successful sales for albums since 2014 in the US, for instance, or back to 2009 if we take gold/500K sales compared to platinum. Nor millionarie sales for singles (dominant format now), as we can see by Nielsen. Streaming are counted to sales, at some extent. And this is applied for all artists by the community. Hence you're the one that made the change and more than 3 users have disputed it, per Wikipedia's guideline, you're the one that need to seek for a consensus, because your reversion could considered edit war. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 14:13, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * - The argument for changing from certified units of 217 to 140 was that a secondary source claims sales of 140. Now a secondary source, a more recent one, claims 197. Since then no argument has been presented as to why 140 is more accurate than 197. I could use the same argument to lower claim sales for any given artists, using outdated claimed sales, due to percieved inflation in the digital/streaming era.
 * - Per Wikipedia guidelines of WP:ONUS its up to the editor changing information that is status quo to present a valid argument. If we assume that claimed sales reported by any given secondary source claimed is a valid argument, then changing from 140 to 197 is also valid. I don't see any reason to reinstate 140 anymore. Doing so would be a contradiction and you have contradicted yourself with your last revert in the linked article using a edit summary that I reverted a source claim, when you revert a more recent sourced claim from a secondary source of equal quality. This is editorial bias. Instantwatym (talk) 15:37, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The source you provide for your 197M claims is nothing but a figure from the 2022 version of Wikipedia and can’t now be used as a source on Wikipedia per WP:Circular. TheWikiholic (talk) 18:22, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Your repeating what I stated originally alleged about the 197 and 140 figures being taken from Wikipedia (as can be seen by my original comment above when opening this discussion) doesn't make the 140 figure valid either. This is getting comical. Instantwatym (talk) 18:33, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm a real stickler for getting rid of CIRCULAR references, but I'm not seeing it in the cited Yahoo! News source. They don't reference Wikipedia at all.
 * I don't see any value in keeping an old reference with an old number. Chris Brown has released a bunch of music since that reference was published, and he continues to do so. His sales figures keep climbing. Binksternet (talk) 20:19, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Oops! I figured out that the 197 million figure was added without reference in July 2022. I agree that a later news item might very well be citing Wikipedia without attribution. Binksternet (talk) 20:51, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

 * I differ a bit to what is considered outdated vs the "now". Some sources with 5 years of differences can give a different and contradictory figure: an older one with a high estimation vs a newer with low estimation. Is not an user opinion, but are secondary sources. Certainly there is no problem with updates, but need to be weighted. I saw similar cases from another user with Mariah's seasonal track based on certifications-streaming, but still wonder if this is ethic. I appreciate the resonability and contributions, but certainly, doing this (another example), and adhere to that view, seems to goes against to our guidelines or push a POV, in my opinion. I might be wrong. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 03:19, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Just to let you known, various artists have secondary sources claiming higher sales to increase their current ones, ranging from the Beatles, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley to Elton John and Madonna (top current five) + plus there is evidece of various uncertified records. We can use analogies both for and against to. It is difficult. But then, we've sources, and some might contradict each other, and both sides could be considered original research. If you are convinced that your argument is the most right choose for this case, or you see a bias from other editors, might you can consider easily open a consensus. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 17:22, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Using a single source, as outlined in WP:CIRCULAR, does not authorize the use of GQ magazine as an additional WP:CIRCULAR source, especially considering it merely mirrored your unsourced addition on August 8, 2023, stating the figure as 217 million. Your repeated pattern of behavior, dating back to July 18, 2021, when you initially altered the claimed sales figure from 140 million to 160 million, then to 193 million, 197 million, 217 million, and 219 million subsequently, all without providing any sources, is concerning. TheWikiholic (talk) 06:10, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It seems fairly obvious that you use WP:CIRCULAR interchangeably with WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. As evidence by the edit history of this article where you keep reinstating the Yahoo Finance you have previously deemed to be in violation of WP:CIRCULAR. Interestingly, you keep reinstating the one Yahoo finance source with the lower sales figure despite both of them supposedly being in violation of WP:CIRCULAR (as agreed by you). Would you care to explain how this pattern of editing is not consistent with WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT because you havent done as so thus far, neither on this talk page nor in your edit summaries. Available certifications are listed with appropriate sources in the linked article and at one point the lede read that he has certified 219 million units, which you also reverted to reinstate 140 from the Yahoo finance source you have previously deemed to be in violation of WP:CIRCULAR.
 * Now youre going off an assumption that any publication, even reliable publications such as GQ, are violating WP:CIRCULAR if they arrive at any figure which reflects his available certifications at the time. Logically editors of reliable publications could arrive at the same figure by tallying his available certified units. At the very least you would concede that the source listing 217 accurately reported his available certified units at the time. Instantwatym (talk) 15:28, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * First of all nowhere in this above discussions did editiors reach a consensus that the Yahoo News article used for Chris Brown's 140 million claimed sales are WP:CIRCULAR. U|Binksternet expressed the Yahoo News article for 197 million claims are WP:CIRCULAR. Your are deliberately mixing the two articles of same publication.
 * Secondly you are copying the available certifications of Chris Brown from the List of Best selling artists. Certifications are not equal to sales and Wikipedia is not a reliable source to cite. If editors of reliable publications could end up with the same figure by tallying his available certified units on the list of best selling artist, why do they always do it after you add that figure to the Wikipedia page of Chris Brown?. TheWikiholic (talk) 18:41, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Certifications are commonly used as an indicator of unit sales. I quickly checked the Usher (musician) article, and his sales are directly supported with the RIAA website. I think that same formula should be used here DollysOnMyMind (talk) 23:41, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Certifications may not directly correlate with sales figures. For instance, the RIAA awards Platinum status to songs that achieve 1 million units, based on metrics like 150 million streams in the US, and Diamond status for those reaching 1.5 billion streams. This recognition, equivalent to 11 million units (10M for song + 1M EAS), showcases an artist's impact beyond traditional sales channels. Regarding Usher, this is another example of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument and the figure of 150M was added by an editor without providing any sources. TheWikiholic (talk) 18:35, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It was deemed that Yahoo finance as a source for sales figures concerning this artist is violating WP:CIRCULAR, which would apply to both articles. The basis for that argument was the articles were reporting certified totals previously listed in this Wikipedia article, which includes 140 and 197. So either both Yahoo finance sources are violating WP:CIRCULAR for the same reason or neither is. If its the latter, then 197 is the appropriate figure to reinstate per the Yahoo finance source. Deliberately choosing the lower figure from a source supposedly being in violation of WP:CIRCULAR is indicative of an agenda.
 * As for your point about the best selling artists article, that article is updated based on available certifications at given times. Wikipedia not being a reliable source would be a valid argument in situations where reputable sources are not being cited for claims made within articles. If it were otherwise and everything reported on Wikipedia was not reliable, then there is no point for you, me nor anyone else to update any article with reliable sources. Nor is there any reason to argue about claims made here and the sources cited. As for editors of publications arriving at the same figures, they could simply do so by researching his certified totals prior to publishing their articles. Whether someone on Wikipedia accurately reported those totals before a publication is irrelevant, so long as what is being reported is factual. For example, if someone were to list the approval date of FDA approved drug or medical device in a Wikipedia article prior to another source reporting the same date, would that source be automatically violating WP:CIRCULAR and/or reporting false information? Obviously not, they could simply search up the same database and report the same fact. The same applies here.
 * As for your comment below about certifications not correlating with sales, streaming equivalents exist for a reason and are weighted to correlate with sales. If that wasnt the case, then there would be not point of certifying anything in the streaming era or reporting updated sales figures for active artists in the streaming era. The only adjustment for inflation is the weight already applied to streaming equivalents upon certification. If someone were to apply your subjective argument about inflation (all the while ignoring certifications which already account for inflation through weighting applied to streaming equivalent) site-wide, then they could simply choose to accept or reject any sales figure for any artist and cite percieved inflation as the reason. In fact you have done this already done this with the 140 and 197 figures. Both of these figures are in fact his certified units totals at different times (which includes certifications in the streaming era) but you accept 140 and not 197 due to percieved inflation. Instantwatym (talk) 23:53, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * First and foremost, it's imperative not to simply extract certification figures from a Wikipedia page and present them as record sales elsewhere without credible sources. There are numerous independent sources supporting Chris Brown's claim of 140 million in record sales, with even Sony Music corroborating this figure. Failure to adhere to proper sourcing protocols could lead to misleading conclusions. For instance, copying certification figures from Wikipedia could inaccurately elevate artists like Drake to the status of best-selling artists of all time, while others such as Taylor Swift, Beyoncé, Justin Bieber, Kanye West, Ed Sheeran, Lil Wayne, Post Malone, and The Weeknd might rightfully claim higher sales figures than Chris Brown. TheWikiholic (talk) 18:49, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There are also numerous independent sources citing 217 million. Youve been trying to selectively label sources with figures you dislike as violating WP:CIRCULAR and now you cited a Sony Music artist page, which takes verbatim the sales excerpt from this Wikipedia article, as well as the occupations from the first line of the lede. It is more of an obvious mirror than anything else cited to date. So again its indicative of your agenda and violation of WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. 140, 197 and 217 are ALL his available certified units are different points in time. So saying that certifications dont align 1:1 with sales and then referencing his previous available certifications of 140 nullifies any argument youre trying to make here.
 * Also, whataboutism as it concerns to you perception about claimed sales of different artists is not a valid argument. You even suggested as much in response in another user above citing WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS/WP:WHATABOUT. This is why certifications exists to provide objective sales information and serve as a point of comparison. Instantwatym (talk) 20:01, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

 * The market shifted. Physical copies and digital sales are obsolete at this point. The music industry is now a streaming based world, and unit sales are neither less or more valuable than physical copies. That's what's counted as copies sold for every artist from the mid 2010s on (on their Wikipedia articles too). DollysOnMyMind (talk) 18:47, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Streaming and sales are not the same even though certification bodies convert streaming into sales by using different parameters for their certification purposes. Streaming is free to one extent where sales are not. TheWikiholic (talk) 19:09, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Streaming and sales are not the same, but unit sales are as close as what the music industry now gets. I would say that it would be accurate to explicitly mention both sales and streaming to the number provided, but both have to be counted to give a complete information DollysOnMyMind (talk) 20:28, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2024
I would like to edit his sales as its been reduced when it originally being at 217M units sold worldwide is overall his entire statistics which his streaming does generate into units which makes his sales 217M units worldwide Ronnyron05 (talk) 14:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 16:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 9 April 2024
In the fourth paragraph it says "He's gained a cult following." It should be "He has gained a cult following.  750h+ |   Talk  07:51, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ * Pppery * it has begun... 14:08, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

A few grammatical and factual edits and changes to the false accusations section
I would like to be able to edit the top section of his page to edit the number of records Chris has sold, as it has surpassed 217 million. There are some slight grammatical errors like capitalization that I would like to correct. The false accusations section is also lacking several cases. Blooey (talk) 14:30, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

 * It is unclear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if needed. Wiiformii (talk) 20:10, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 June 2024
The artistry section says "On "Look At Me Now", "No Romeo No Juliet" and "Stranger Things" he displayed his ability of fast rapping." This is outdated and should be changed to 'On "Look at Me Now", "No Romeo No Juliet","Stranger Things", "Weakest Link" and "I Don't Die" he displayed his ability of fast-rapping.' Blooey (talk) 20:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – macaddct1984 (talk | contribs) 23:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 July 2024
A Wikipedia page listing the world's best selling artists shows that he has 220 million units of certified sales so why can't we put THAT on his official page? Let's please change the figure from 140 million to 220 million since it's sourced by Wikipedia. Blooey (talk) 03:04, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

 * I tried numerous times to update this information with the relevant sources on the basis of due weight but it kept being reverted on the grounds of WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. Ideally this information should be updated to reflect his update sales/certifications. But personally I will not be updating due to persistant edit warring over his factual sales/certifications tally. Someone else with extended confirmed access can/should update it. Instantwatym (talk) 17:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – macaddct1984 (talk | contribs) 23:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Evening Standard wrote "He has sold more than 197 million records worldwide" here. That's a reliable source, I think the number should be updated NoOneElseLovEe (talk) 11:00, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ – macaddct1984 (talk | contribs) 11:47, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chris Brown


text:
Watertown (album)

Watertown (subtitled A Love Story) is a studio album by American singer Frank Sinatra, released in March 1970 through Reprise Records. It is a concept album centered on a man from Watertown, New York. In a series of soliloquies, the nameless narrator tells his heartbreaking story of personal loss: his wife has left him and their two boys for the lure of the big city. Watertown was produced and co-written by Bob Gaudio, one of four members of the rock band the Four Seasons, with Jake Holmes also co-writing the songs. It is the only album where Sinatra ever voiced over pre-recorded orchestral tracks. The album was released to mixed critical reviews and poor sales, with it being Sinatra's only major album release not to chart in the top 100 of the Billboard 200. It has since been reevaluated and many consider it to be among his finest albums.

History and recording
In 1969, Sinatra's sales were low. To try to combat this, he agreed to record a concept album with Bob Gaudio & Frankie Valli of the Four Seasons and singer-songwriter Jake Holmes. Sinatra was no stranger to concept albums, having done them in the past, such as In the Wee Small Hours in 1955. Gaudio and Valli brought Sinatra a fully written album that told the story of a man raising his two young sons in Watertown after his wife leaves him for the city.

The album's orchestral tracks were recorded in New York at Columbia 30th Street Studio, also referred to as "The Church". Unlike previous work, Sinatra did not record with the orchestra, but he did attend the recording sessions for the music. He recorded his vocals over the pre-recorded tracks at United/Western Studios on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood. He would never again record his vocals without a live orchestra. (He overdubbed his vocals on pre-recorded tracks for "The Saddest Thing of All" as well as the songs with women's names arranged by Nelson Riddle including "Nancy", "Emily", "Linda", "Barbara", and "Sweet Lorraine". See "Put Your Dreams Away: A Frank Sinatra Discography" by Luis Carlos do Nascimento Silva)

Recording for the music took place from July 14 to 17 and October 13. Tracks 5 and 10 were recorded on July 14, tracks 1, 4, and 6 on July 15, tracks 8 and 9 on July 16, and 3,7, and 11 on July 17. "Michael and Peter", "Lady Day" and "For a While" were rerecorded October 13.

Sinatra recorded his vocals in California from August 25 to 27 and October 31. Tracks 5,9,10, and 11 were recorded on August 25, 1 and 8 on August 26 and 2 and 7 on August 27. Sinatra went back into the studio on October 31 to finish vocals for "Elizabeth", "Michael and Peter", and "For a While".

"I Would Be in Love (Anyway)" reached #77 in the Canadian pop charts, and #4 on the US Adult Contemporary charts.

Story
The album is told in two parts with an epilogue. Part 1 is tracks 1-5 and tells the story of the main character's disbelief in his wife leaving. Part 2 is tracks 6-10 and tells of the main character's desperation. A 1994 CD bonus track "Lady Day" tells the story of his wife leaving Watertown for the city.

Jake Holmes, the lyricist, explained the story of each track to Ed O'Brien for the liner notes:

Part 1
1. "Watertown": It was the set-up for everything that followed. I had in mind as a model "Lazy Afternoon". I wanted a languid feeling. If we had done the TV special, it would have opened it up, with the credits going by.

2. "Goodbye (She Quietly Says)": I had a line in my head. "There was no tempest in the tea". That's what led me there. I love the idea of those kind of goodbyes that people have where nothing is happening emotionally. It knocks me out when there is nothing on the surface. People are just sitting in a coffee shop and devastation has happened. They don't articulate their feelings. Instead, they are putting sugar in their coffee and spooning cake. They are having a quiet conversation but meanwhile a life is coming apart.

3. "For a While": I've always felt that there is that moment in your life when you forget about something that is really terrible. For five minutes the sun is shining and everything is beautiful. Then all of a sudden you realize that the person you cared about is gone, and it all comes back. It is one of those horrible things about grief – one of those little holes in grief when it becomes even more painful.

4. "Michael & Peter": I had lost a child in my first marriage. I would have had a child by myself if I could have (laughs). I desperately wanted kids. In a funny kind of way, Gaudio's kids were the models for that song. I put it in letter form, because it was the only way the guy could articulate those sentiments to her.

5. "I Would Be in Love (Anyway)": I guess it's that you can't regret where you are even if life takes you someplace where you don't want to be. In a strange kind of way, it was this guy trying to let go of this woman without being angry with her. You know, throughout the story, he was never really angry at her. He kind of understood; she had to go.

Part 2
6. "Elizabeth". It was real simple. I just love that name. Bobby was writing the song and that word just fell into the melody. I just imagined a girl named Elizabeth and wrote words that were a tribute to her.

7. "What a Funny Girl (You Used to Be)": The album could have been a little bit maudlin and dour. I was trying to put a little bit of sunlight everywhere I could. It was a retrospective song. I also wanted to indicate in the song that they had been childhood sweethearts. I wanted that kind of an idea. They were probably kids together. I wanted to give the sense that they had gone to school together. They had fallen in love and married quite young.

8. "What's Now Is Now". There is in that song an indication that she had obviously gone with somebody else. She has had a relationship, and he hadn't been able to accept it. That is partially what drove her off to the big city. There is a guilt theme in that song. It is the song that opens up the story.

9. "She Says". The song is a triple turn to me. He is suspicious of the small talk. The kids are echoing his fears. Why is she sending this letter? What is going on? It is such good news; they can't believe it and they don't trust it. The twist is her saying, "She's comin' home". They don't trust that either.

10. "The Train": ... is the story. We find out that he really didn't communicate anything to her, and she isn't coming back. Although we're getting all of this story from him, she never got any of this. If she had heard this album, she might have come home. She never saw this side of him. When I think about this in retrospect, there is so much that is not done. There is so much that is unfinished. It gives the story a very deep resonance.

Epilogue
11. "Lady Day". I saw the woman as someone who had talent. She wanted to be an artist or a singer. He was a hometown person. His whole orientation was family and business. He was the kind of guy who really lived in Watertown. She was more restless – a more contemporary woman. She wanted to do other things. She wasn't liberated enough to tell him, and she didn't think he'd understand. He was basically a good guy, but she wanted more. She abandoned her family and went for a career. The postscript was whether or not she got it and was it worth it.

Track listing
1994 CD bonus track 2022 CD bonus tracks
 * 1) "Watertown" – 3:36
 * 2) "Goodbye (She Quietly Says)" – 3:06
 * 3) "For a While" – 3:09
 * 4) "Michael & Peter" – 5:10
 * 5) "I Would Be in Love (Anyway)" – 2:31
 * 6) "Elizabeth" – 3:38
 * 7) "What a Funny Girl (You Used to Be)" – 3:00
 * 8) "What's Now Is Now" – 4:04
 * 9) "She Says" – 1:51
 * 10) "The Train" – 3:26
 * 1) "Lady Day" – 2:47
 * 1) "Lady Day" (11/7/69)*
 * 2) "Watertown" (Session Take)*
 * 3) "Goodbye (She Quietly Says) (Session Take)*
 * 4) "The Train" (Session Take)*
 * 5) "Lady Day" (11/7/69) (Session Take)*
 * 6) 1970 Reprise Radio Promo #1*
 * 7) 1970 Reprise Radio Promo #2*

All songs written by Bob Gaudio and Jake Holmes.

Personnel

 * Frank Sinatra – lead vocals
 * Bob Gaudio – producer, composer, arranger
 * Jake Holmes – lyricist
 * Charles Calello – arranger, conductor
 * Joe Scott – arranger, conductor
 * Wayne Andre, Warren Covington, Urbie Green, Jimmy Knepper – trombone
 * Tony Studd – bass trombone
 * Ray Alonge, James Buffington, Brooks Tillotson – French horn
 * Phil Bodner, Wally Kane, Romeo Penque, William Slapin – woodwinds
 * Mannie Green, Max Cahn, Julius Held, Joe Malin, George Ockner, Rocco Pesile, Raoul Poliakin, Aaron Rosand, Max Pollikoff, Tosha Samaroff, Julius Schachter, Hemi Aubert – violin
 * Alfred Brown, Harold Coletta, Richard Dickler, Cal Fleisig – viola
 * George Ricci, Harvey Shapiro – cello
 * Margaret Ross – harp
 * Dick Hyman, Moe Wechsler – piano
 * Stuart Scharf – classic guitar
 * Jay Berliner, Ralph Casale, Willard Suyker, Vincent Bell – guitar
 * Richard Davis, Russell George – bass
 * Joe Mack – electric bass
 * Alvin Rogers – drums
 * David Carey – percussion
 * James Rocco, Diane Dell – background vocals
 * Manny Green – concert master
 * Lee Herschberg – digital mastering, mixing
 * Roy Cicala – editing, remixing
 * Frank Laico – engineer
 * Don Snyder – album design
 * Ove Olsen – pen & ink cover art
 * Ed O'Brien – CD liner notes
 * Joe McEwen – reissue supervisor

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Watertown (album)


text:
Talk:Career management

Untitled
This page needs attention. Yonidebest 12:51, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. I've polished a few little things, but I also added a cleanup tag.--Mikeblas 14:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Found the Ball reference and inserted it. 16:28, 08 November 2006

Cited the Ball reference, removed clean up tag Nlaney 14:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I propose to delete the current old (1996?), short (100+ word) entry and replace it with a 2000 word entry which applies the managerial process to the development of a career model. Comments please. Dbaalex (talk) 21:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)Dbaalex

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Carlos.estevez005.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:47, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

External links modified
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Need help with getting a reference in
Here is the reference i was trying to add and got stumped when I tried to italicize the journal title.

Maybe someone can assist.

Valentich, Mary & Gripton, James (1978). "Sexism and sex differences in career management of social workers." The Social Science Journal 15(2), 101-111.

My reason for adding the material I did was because when i did my doctoral research in 1973, my late partner and I came up with these concepts. We simply did not find "career management" in the literature and had to devise our own concepts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.0.231.18 (talk) 21:19, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Educational management
Career related concept 102.88.69.165 (talk) 07:24, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Career management


text:
Push It

Push It may refer to:
 * "Push It" (Salt-n-Pepa song), 1987
 * "Push It" (Garbage song), 1998
 * "Push It" (Static-X song), 1999
 * "Push It" (Rick Ross song), 2006
 * "Push It", a song by NLE Choppa featuring Young Thug from the mixtape Me vs. Me

title: Push It


text:
NCW

NCW may refer to:
 * National Commission for Women, an Indian government organization
 * Neocatechumenal Way, a group within the Catholic Church
 * Newcastlewest, a town in County Limerick, Ireland
 * New College Worcester, England, for visually-impaired students
 * Network Centric Warfare, using information technology for battlefield advantage
 * Northern Championship Wrestling, professional wrestling promotion in Quebec
 * NCW Femmes Fatales, women's professional wrestling promotion in Quebec
 * National Chemistry Week, an annual celebration of chemistry in the United States

title: NCW


text:
Majka Jeżowska

Majka Jeżowska (born Maria Jeżowska on May 25, 1960 in Nowy Sącz, Poland ), is a Polish singer performing pop and children's music. She is also a part-time actress.

Biography
She graduated from the Karol Szymanowski Academy of Music in Katowice, supervised by Krystyna Prońko. In 1978, she won an award at the festival in Zielona Góra, and in 1979, was awarded again at the National Festival of Polish Song in Opole for the song "Nutka w nutkę". The following year, her song "Reggae o pierwszych wynalazcach" (Reggae about first inventors) took the third place at the festival in Opole. She released her debut album, Jadę w świat, in 1981, which apart from previously known songs included further hits "Od rana mam dobry humor" (I'm in good mood since morning) and "Najpiękniejsza w klasie" (Most beautiful in class). The singer subsequently emigrated to the United States, where she married in 1982. She was a member of a rock group Heat N Serve, with which she had a minor hit "Rats on a Budget" in 1984.

Jeżowska simultaneously continued musical career in Poland, where she achieved success with songs "Papierowy man" and "Mały Piccolo" in 1985. In the same year, her song "A ja wolę moją mamę", based on a children's poem by Agnieszka Osiecka, became a radio hit, and the singer released an album of the same title in 1986. It consisted entirely of children's song and was met with modest success. Her second adult pop album, Wibracje, was released in 1987. At the festival in Opole in 1988, she won the first award for the song "Odkąd zjawił się Edek", and a special award at the same festival in 1991 for "Za daleko do Chicago". In 1993, her song "Kolor serca" promoted the Great Orchestra of Christmas Charity.

In 1994, having permanently settled back in Poland, she founded her own record label, JaMajka Music, and released another album with children's music, Kolorowe dzieci, followed by an album of Polish Christmas carols Zimowe obrazki in 1995, and Kochaj czworonogi in 1997. She has been awarded with the Order of the Smile and is a Goodwill Ambassador for UNICEF.

Discography

 * 1981: Jadę w świat (I'm going into the world)
 * 1986: A ja wolę moją mamę (I prefer my mother)
 * 1987: Wibracje (Vibrations)
 * 1990: The Best of Majka
 * 1994: Kolorowe dzieci (Colourful children)
 * 1995: Zimowe obrazki (Images of winter)
 * 1997: Kochaj czworonogi (Love four-legged creatures)
 * 1998: Królestwo zielonej polany (Kingdom of green glade)
 * 2000: Najpiękniejsza w klasie – Złota kolekcja (The most beautiful in class - golden collection)
 * 2003: Marzenia się spełniają (Dreams come true)
 * 2009: Rytm i melodia (Rhythm and melody)

title: Majka Jeżowska


text:
Peire Cardenal

Peire Cardenal (or Cardinal) (c. 1180 – c. 1278) was a troubadour (fl. 1204 – 1272) known for his satirical sirventes and his dislike of the clergy. Ninety-six pieces of his remain, a number rarely matched by other poets of the age.

Peire Cardenal was born in Le Puy-en-Velay, apparently of a noble family; the family name Cardenal appears in many documents of the region in the 13th and 14th centuries. He was educated as a canon, which education directed him to vernacular lyric poetry and he abandoned his career in the church for "the vanity of this world", according to his vida. Peire began his career at the court of Raymond VI of Toulouse—from whom he sought patronage—and a document of 1204 refers to a Petrus Cardinalis as a scribe of Raymond's chancery. At Raymond's court, however, he appears to have been known as Peire del Puoi or Puei (Pierre du Puy). Around 1238 he wrote a partimen beginning Peire del Puei, li trobador with Aimeric de Pegulhan.

At Raymond's court also perhaps, probably in 1213, Peire composed a sirventes, Las amairitz, qui encolpar las vol, which may have encouraged Peter II of Aragon to help Toulouse in the Battle of Muret, where Peter died. In this sirventes Peire alludes first perhaps to the accusations of adultery that Peter had leveled against Peter's wife Maria of Montpellier but also perhaps to the various changes in law governing women. In the second stanza Peire mentions Peter's success in the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa; in the third he alludes to the sacking of Béziers (whose count Raymond Roger Trencavel was supposed to have been Peter's vassal): at Béziers the poorer soldiers of the Inquisition were flogged by the wealthier, and this is the theme of the stanza. Peire's mention of the court of Constantine may also again evoke the divorce proceedings of Peter and Marie where Peire ultimately lost. Peire later alludes to the death of someone (perhaps a daughter or perhaps Peire's wife Marie) and then apparently to the couple's son James I of Aragon, born at Candlemas, according to James's Chronicle. It's not clear who the crois hom or "dreadful man" is in the final couplet, whose deeds are "piggish": Peire has really never addressed anyone in this verse but Peter II and those close to him. (But dualism had by then made its way into some of the local religious views of Medieval Languedoc: in dualist philosophy worldly deeds might be seen as "piggish".)

Peire subsequently travelled widely, visiting the courts of Auvergne, Les Baux, Foix, Rodez, and Vienne. He may have even ventured into Spain and met Alfonso X of Castile, and James I of Aragon, although he never mentions the latter by name in his poems. (James is however of course mentioned in Peire's vida.) During his travels Peire was accompanied by a suite of jongleurs, some of whom receive mention by name in his poetry.

Among the other troubadours Peire encountered in his travels were Aimeric de Belenoi and Raimon de Miraval. He may have met Daude de Pradas and Guiraut Riquier at Rodez. Peire was influenced by Cadenet, whom he honoured in one of his pieces. He was possibly influenced by Bernart de Venzac.

In his early days he was a vehement opponent of the French, the clergy and the Albigensian Crusade. In the sirventes, Ab votz d'angel, lengu' esperta, non bleza, dated by Hill and Bergin to around 1229 (when the tribunal of the Inquisition was established at Toulouse by the Dominican Order), Peire enjoins those who seek God to follow the example of those who "drink beer" and "eat bread of gruel and bran", rather than argue over "which wine is the best". The latter behavior Peire's verse attributes to the "Jacobins" (Hill and Bergin say this is the Dominican Order).

In Li clerc si fan pastor he condemned the "possession" of the laity by the clergy, for so long as the clergy order it, the laity will "draw their swords towards heaven and get into the saddle." This poem was written probably around 1245, after the First Council of Lyon, where the clergy took action against the Emperor Frederick II, but not against the Saracens. In Atressi cum per fargar Peire suggests that the clergy "protect their own swinish flesh from every blade", but they do not care how many knights die in battle. Peire was not an opponent of Christianity or even the Crusades. In Totz lo mons es vestitiz et abrazatz he urged Philip III of France, who had recently succeeded his father, Louis IX, who died in 1270 on the failed Eighth Crusade, to go to the aid of Edward Longshanks, then on the Ninth Crusade in Syria.

Near the end of the sirventes, Ab votz d'angel, lengu' esperta, non bleza, composed as noted probably around 1229, Peire's words, [s]'ieu fos maritz, "if I were wed", suggest that he is not yet wed. The verse which follows provides evidence in the view of some that Peire married: it first mocks the "barrenness that bears fruit" of the beguinas (beguines, who may have sometimes been associated with the Dominicans; Hill and Bergin in 1973 said this was a reference to nuns of the Dominican Order). Throughout the verse of course Peire had been poking fun at the Dominican clergy, but the comment about the nuns may have additional significance. His tone changes after this and his closing lines suggest though that all this is a miracle from the "saintly fathers", suggesting his acceptance of things: Cardenal.org says that some have interpreted these lines as suggesting that Peire married at this time.

By the end of his life he appears reconciled to the new modus vivendi in southern France. He died at an advanced age (allegedly one hundred years old) possibly either in Montpellier or Nimes, but this is only a supposition, based on where the biographer and compiler Miquel de la Tor was active.

Three of Peire's songs have surviving melodies, but two (for a canso and a sirventes) were composed by others: Guiraut de Bornelh and Raimon Jordan respectively. Like many of his contemporary troubadours, Peire merely composed contrafacta. The third, for Un sirventesc novel vuelh comensar, may be Peire's own work. It is similar to the borrowed melody of Guiraut de Bornelh, mostly syllabic with melismas at phrasal ends. The meagre number of surviving tunes (attributable to him) relative to his output of poetry is surprising considering his vida states that "he invented poetry about many beautiful subjects with beautiful tunes."

title: Peire Cardenal


text: User talk:86.136.85.133

title: User talk:86.136.85.133


text:
User:Welkinridge

Welkinridge

I am a Master Mariner still going to sea. One of the last generation to have navigated around the world before the advent of satellite navigation and electronic calculators. Still at sea, at least for the next ten years or so, I have wide interests but particularly in scientific topics.

I live in the U.K. 20 miles or so north of London.

title: User:Welkinridge


text:
User:RussBlau/monobook.css

a:visited { color: #993399; }

title: User:RussBlau/monobook.css


text:
User:AlanBarrett/Sandbox

Testing Sandbox2
If the two tables below look the same, then the User:AlanBarrett/Sandbox2 template is working.

title: User:AlanBarrett/Sandbox


text:
User talk:Lusur

Please do not add commercial links (or links to your own private websites) to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising or a mere collection of external links. You are, however, encouraged to add content instead of links to the encyclopedia. See the welcome page to learn more. Thanks. --Yamla 12:56, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Lusur


text:
Phaya Tani

Phaya Tani (พญาตานี; also Nang Phraya Tani, or  Seri Patani in Malay) is a 17th-century siege cannon from Pattani Province in southern Thailand. It is the largest cannon ever cast in what is now Thailand, measuring 2.7 m long (9 feet) and made of brass. It is on display in front of the Ministry of Defence, opposite the Grand Palace in Bangkok. The cannon still serves as the symbol of Pattani Province and it has been on the official seal of Pattani Province since 1939.

History
Various sources give differing accounts of how cannons came to be made in Pattani and who made them. According to Sejarah Kerajaan Melayu Patani ("History of the Malay Kingdom of Patani"), cannons were cast in the early-17th century in the Sultanate of Pattani by a man of Chinese descent named Tok Kayan. Raja Biru ordered the construction of powerful artillery to protect their independence from Siam. Three cannons were made – two siege guns named Seri Negara, Seri Patani, and a smaller cannon named the Maha Lela. Phongsawadan muang pattani ("Chronicle of Pattani") named the cannons as Cri Nagri, Nang Pattani, and Maha Lalo. Hikayat Patani, however, gives the name of these three cannons as Seri Negeri, Tuk (Datuk) Buk, and Nang (Lady) Liu-Liu, and suggests that these cannons were cast earlier by a man from Rum called Abdussamad. The cannons were said to have successfully repelled a number of attacks. After the fall of Ayutthaya to the Burmese in 1767, the Sultanate of Pattani renounced its tributary status to Siam and declared its independence. Eighteen years later in 1785, however, a Thai army led by King Rama I's brother, the vice-king Boworn Maha Surasinghanat, invaded and conquered Patani, and the Thais have ruled it ever since. The Phaya Patani (Seri Patani) and Phaya Negara (Seri Negara) were ordered to be sent to Bangkok as spoils of war. Some sources said that Phaya Negara came loose as it was being loaded aboard a ship and plunged into the sea, where it remains.

King Rama I ordered a similar-sized cannon named the Narai Sanghan (นารายณ์สังหาร) to be cast to serve as a companion to the Phaya Patani, now renamed the Phraya Tani.

A replica of Phaya Tani was created and placed in front of Krue Se Mosque in Pattani in 2013, but it was damaged by separatists who saw it as 'faked' and wanted the return of the original cannon.

Cultural significance
The cannon has been used as a symbol Pattani on the official seal of Pattani Province since 1939. It is also remembered in Pattani by the locals who fired bamboo cannons during the Hari Raya festival celebrations.

title: Phaya Tani


text: Category:Novocastrians

title: Category:Novocastrians


text:
Miguel Rimba

Miguel Ángel Rimba Alvis (born November 1, 1967, in Riberalta) is a former Bolivian football defender. He played 80 international matches for the Bolivia national team.

Career
Rimba made three appearances in the 1994 FIFA World Cup and was part of the squad that reached the final of the Copa América in 1997. He made his debut on May 25, 89 in a friendly match against Paraguay in Cochabamba.

He played the majority of his club career for Bolívar where he won six Bolivian league titles (1988, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1997).

Towards the end of his career he played in Argentina with Atlético Tucumán, he then had short spells with Oriente Petrolero, Real Santa Cruz and Aurora before his retirement in 2003.

Over the course of his career he had 63 Copa Libertadores appearances and scored a goal.

Club

 * Bolívar (6)
 * Liga de Fútbol Profesional Boliviano: 1988, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1997

title: Miguel Rimba


text:
Talk:Mary Mary

Birthdates
I have fixed Tina's birthdate. The source listed mentions that their ages are two years apart, but their previous birth years were in 1972 and 1975. The next sister up from Erica is five years older than her, and she was born in 1967, making Erica's birth year correct. I have moved Tina's up to 1974 to keep the times accurate. 72.147.244.89 (talk) 06:36, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Expansion
This article seriously needs to be expanded with a fuller biography, discography, albums, singles, sales etc. Please work on it. [12:59, 8 October 2005 220.235.173.69]

 * Uh, no, you're supposed to work on it. That's the WP way.  Wasted Time R 22:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree, this needs to be expanded. I think a discography chart similar to Karen Clark-Sheard's may be nice but I dont know how to do it. Also, I started working on expanding it but somebody undid it. What gives? JGCarter 11/9/06

Awards edit
I've edited the awards section, listing specific Dove awards won, and removing the Soul Train and Lady of Soul award categories, because according to the official websites for these awards, there is no record of Mary Mary ever being a winner; Mary Mary has, though performed at the awards ceremonies and served as presenters. I've also removed the Stellar Awards category, because there is no record of them having won (not saying they didn't, but need to have verifiable info for the entry)Akradecki 23:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Disappear?
Why has this article disappeared???

Major Additions
Hi All, lately I've been working on Mary Mary's page and so now I am adding pages for each of their albums and then if I have the time, I will do singles. If you all could help me, I'd appreciate it. Jrter 20:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Citing?
How would I cite a pamphlet from a Mary Mary album? Jgcarter 15:50, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Stand Still
Yeah, I doubt there was ever a promotional CD single released, but if it got some radio airplay, it may be worth mentioning along with other chart positions. Souldier77 05:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I have yet to hear that song on the radio...if thats true, then shouldnt "Trouble Aint" be added? That song was on a lot of secular stations. For now, I vote we just list official singles. But thats just my opinion :-) Jgcarter 17:12, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I suppose so. I mean, there's always cases where gospel albums don't have singles and instead one huge song that's pushed on radio and TV even if there's no separate single released. That wouldn't be the case for Mary Mary though. Their singles tend to get official record company issues unlike say Byron Cage, Juanita Bynum or Judith Christie-McAllister. That being said, I don't think it'd be a problem to ditch "Stand Still" from the list for now. There are always various album cuts that get a little airplay. It doesn't mean they're singles. Souldier77 17:20, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I fully agree with you :-) Jgcarter 18:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Shackles (Praise You)
Hi All, Ive been working on Shackles (Praise You) lately...please tell me what you think! Jgcarter 19:47, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Vocal Profile?
I don't know much about their notes, but I think some vocal information should be mentioned. I'm pretty sure both of their highest notes can be found on the album A Mary Mary Christmas, where Tina hit a Bb5 on "Still the Lamb" and Erica did a G5 on "Call Him Jesus." It's probably impossible to find sources on that though...76.107.123.1 (talk) 21:51, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Names
Should we really be calling them the Campbell sisters? This seems weird to me since Campbell just happens to be their married names. There is no citation to support calling them that. If no one responds to this in a few days, I will change it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Really Bad Robot (talk • contribs) 22:05, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

 * You're right. I didn't really notice that before. It's not their name. There is a gospel group by that name. Thanks. I've removed it. --Musdan77 (talk) 00:23, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Mary Mary


text:
Talk:Apostles of Johane Marauke

In earlier variants several increasingly odd things are said. That's because the original version of this was made up almost entirely by me. The only thing that wasn't made up was the name. There is a group called "Apostles of Johane Marauke" and later I put in the real details of them, with one exception. That exception being "Transfiguration Day" which is something I invented.

I noticed African issues don't get much interest so I wanted to test how little attention they get. I got this idea while discuss religion coverage at Wiki somewhere. I wondered how odd I could make an article about religion in a less covered place, Africa, before it got attention. I was able to make descriptions of "Transfiguration Day" pretty darn weird before I got a "Barnstar" deal and started to feel guilty for other reasons. So I took it down. I'm thinking I might add "Transfiguration Day" to jokes and other nonsense or whatever it's called.--T. Anthony 12:59, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Apostles of Johane Marauke


text:
Talk:Quench (album)

Untitled
The original of the artwork for this album is in the Ferens Art Gallery, Hull (or was last time I was there) I was not sure whether to include a picture of the picture [] as I am not sure of copyright things! Add it if you wish.

900,000 sold copies in the UK
NOT a fan of the band

but it was remarkable that it was sold 900,000 copies as of 2004

3xPLATINUM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.247.247.123 (talk) 10:28, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Quench (album)


text:
Talk:CBBC Newsround

Untitled
How many bulletins are produced each day? One each for BBC One and CBBC Channel? 220.253.149.118 02:43, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * See this link http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_4810000/newsid_4813700/4813752.stm

This page is not NPOV. The criticisms section is anecdotal and uses emotive language. 163.1.42.251 08:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I've amended the section you mentioned. I think it's ok now Damson88 21:39, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Any other comments about the Criticism section? Damson88 13:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * OK removing the NPOV tag Damson88 17:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Ammanjordan 19:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

sorry forgotten to sign last message about the arabic newsround rpogramme.... ammanjordan

Press Pack
There is no mention in this page of the Press Pack - I believe this warrants a mention? It is the club which viewers can join. By submitting journalistic articles, they can win the chance to present reports on Newsround itself.

(Kjh888 14:36, 11 October 2007 (UTC))

Denied by the BBC's DG
Newsround altered their 9/11 text after the fuss about alleged anti-US bias. Is there a reference for the DG's denial of bias? Damson88 (talk) 12:34, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Newsround's 'birthday'
On BBC1 today, the last Newsround story began "And finally our 35th birthday ..." before a recap of the last 35 years. However the 'birth date' given on Wikipedia (and IMDB) is 4 April 1972. So there seems to be a discrepancy in the date. Damson88 18:00, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Newsround's website confirms 4 April 1972 as the correct date:
 * http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_7120000/newsid_7121200/7121296.stm
 * Damson88 20:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Other opinions requested
My revision this morning at 10.24 has been questioned as being "written in a one-sided POV way using weasel words."

''The programme has been criticized by young people, on its own CBBC message boards, as being "patronising." On diversity, some have accused Newsround of discrimination against older children and LGBT people, pointing out, for example, a reluctance to include relevant issues or stories[9].''

''Newsround's website operated an age discrimination policy from summer 2006, which meant that feedback from older kids was discarded.[10] As of 2008, this website discrimination policy has been relaxed[11]. In 2007 website coverage of 9/11 was criticised by some as biased against the USA. [12] The coverage was subsequently amended.''

Please could I request other opinions on my wording.Damson88 (talk) 11:14, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, my reasons for reverting were;
 * a) for the use of weasel words ("some have accused", "criticised by some"). It needs to say exactly who has made the accusation and thus show how representative that viewpoint is.
 * b) the lack of suitable verifiable evidence - e.g. only citing the contents of (what appears to be) a POV blog) and presenting opinion as fact. (The results of an age distribution summary of comments posted to the website does not prove an active policy of discrimination against the inclusion of comments made by teenagers - e.g. it could simply demonstrate that older children do not identify with the programme (whch is amed at 6-12 year olds.) And if such a policy existed it could be explained by a desire to only include comments received from the target audience - e.g. would it be controversial to exclude comments posted by adults?)
 * c) not presenting a neutral point of view. I would guess if there is evidence of a widely-held viewpoint that Newsround is biased against LGBT issues, there would be evidence of an opposite viewpoint. (Even if that viewpoint is purely from people who think it is not appropriate for a news programme aimed at 6-12 year olds to cover issues of sexuality and sexual identity.)
 * It's very easy to include one-sided criticism - but as an encylopaedia, Wikipedia articles must be balanced - and the onus is on the person adding content to ensure that the cntent is balanced, verifiable and free of weasel words. DrFrench (talk) 12:37, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your message, and for helping to clarify your reasoning.
 * I will reply in detail in a few days but in the meantime could you let me know why, on 27 July 2008, you took out the reference to a deleted post by MzKiedis (U6934819) on Newsround's message board? Thanks Damson88 (talk) 15:28, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I've considered what you say, and think that you are right about the weasel words remark. I disagree with some of your other comments. For example, you say that there is a lack of evidence of discrimination against teens. Whilst I agree that this could not be proved with absolute certainty, the evidence is statistically significant to a high degree, and therefore could be characterised as 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. As a children's programme Newsround could reasonably refuse posts from adults, but I don't think under the particular circumstances that it is reasonable to refuse older children, and certainly not without a warning.

 * Taking into account what you said, I redrafted the section, and would appreciate your views - or those of a 3rd party - if you are still concerned in any way:-

 * The programme has been criticized by young people on its message boards as being "patronising". Messages of concern about the the handling of LGBT issues have appeared on Newsround's website, and there is a suspicion on the boards of a reluctance to allow coverage. The suspicion was confirmed, for example, by MzKiedis' message and its peremptory removal by the BBC.

 * Newsround's website operated an age discrimination policy from summer 2006, which meant that feedback from older kids was discarded. As of 2008, this website policy has been relaxed. In 2007 arguments arose over a perceived anti-American bias in website coverage of 9/11. The coverage was subsequently amended.

 * Damson88 (talk) 08:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Well firstly, thanks for taking the time to review the text - but I don't feel you have adequately addressed the issues. Wikipedia is not an outlet for original research; so reliable, verifiable seondary sources are required. POV blogs do not meet that criteria.
 * A news programme for 6-12 year olds with an approx 8 minute running time is not going to cover every story. It will have an editorial policy about the kind of stories it will cover if that is available online, it could be refernced and quoted to give some context to the article. I think many parents would expect that certain 'controversial' subjects are handled with extreme aution or avoided altogether. Whatever your (or my) personal opinion is, I think you'd have to agree that sex, sexuality and sexual identity are amongst those topics. For example I can quite believe that many parents would be uncomfortable (at the very least) if Newsround covered isses such as abortion or date-rape - and similarly many parents would not feel that LGBT issues are a suitable topic for the programme.  Any criticism must - to be fair - be placed in that context. As for the age discrimination policy - again there is only supposition and not fact. DrFrench (talk) 21:25, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your reply.

 * Kids' remarks about reluctance to cover LGBT issues were on the message boards for the whole world to see, so there's no original research involved. I didn't include any links in the proposed wording for brevity.

 * Your point about adult issues is interesting, but we're not discussing date rape or abortion here. Don't you think it's reasonable to report and tackle the topic of homophobic bullying? And is it reasonable to report celebrity marriages, but only when the partners are not lesbian or gay? Am I right in thinking that you personally believe LGBT issues simply should not be covered on Newsround?

 * What are you disputing on the age discrimination point? Even the BBC seems to have accepted it should not have happened, and accordingly relaxed the policy in January this year.

 * Look forward to your further comments. Thanks Damson88 (talk) 23:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Mark Easton
Current BBC Home affairs editor Mark Easton eventually took over from John Craven after being the regular stand-in towards the end of John's stint. Hes hould be added to the list of presenters —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.123.135.235 (talk) 14:43, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

John Watson
Any reason why John Watson was removed from the list of presenters? Damson88 (talk) 15:55, 29 October 2011 ( UTC)

When did "Newsround" "begin?
This article says that "Newsround" began in April 1972. On Front Row tonight, it was said that the programme had ran continuously for seventeen years, but the article implies that it has run for nineteen years as of November 24 2011. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 19:35, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

List of presenters
The link to Paul McDowell may be slightly off... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.176.224.68 (talk) 22:35, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Logo
The logo was changed last week and thus needs replacing on the page. Digifiend (talk) 17:30, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Newsround "firsts"?
The article states that "The programme was also first in Britain to report an assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II in Vatican City in 1981 and provided the first reports from the Windsor Castle fire of November 1992." I have a clear recollection of the first report of the 1981 shooting. The Pope's photo appeared on screen, followed by a brief "official" newsflash from BBC News. Newsround followed immediately afterwards, so strictly speaking it didn't break the story, although it was certainly in the reporting frontline on that occasion. (I seem to remember news of President Sadat's 1981 assassination breaking as Newsround came on air, but can't find any references to confirm this). News of the 1992 Windsor Castle fire broke around lunchtime - it was on Radio 4's The World at One - so how can Newsround have "provided the first reports" of that story? 85.255.233.92 (talk) 01:29, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Newsround Specials
The list of NR Specials is getting quite long, and they are to be increased now the programme only has one bulletin a day - would it be worth creating a new page to list the episodes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.76.75 (talk) 20:27, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

More about creation
Seeing social media coverage of today being the 50th anniversary of the show, I came to look up how the show first came about, but we don't have any real detail there.

I'm downgrading the article to C-class as a result. —  OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk; please {{ping}} me in replies) 14:29, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:CBBC Newsround


text:
Göran Gillinger

Anders Göran Gillinger (born 13 February 1973) is a Swedish actor and former model. He has a broad background in classical theatre, television and film.

Career
Gillinger was born in Vaxholm, Stockholms län in 1973. In 1993, at the age of 19, he was cast as Robert "Raspen" Thorstensson in the Swedish TV soap opera Rederiet. He left the role during the fourth season in 1994.

His first film role was a young beach boy in the Swedish comedy film Sune's Summer in 1994.

In 1995, he played the male lead, Adam, in the Swedish movie 30:e november. In 1996, he played Tobias in the Swedish sitcom En fyra för tre, with Björn Gustafson and Birgitta Andersson.

In 1999 he was accepted to The Royal Academy of Acting in Stockholm and graduated in June 2003 with a bachelor's degree. In 2001, he spent a semester at the Stella Adler Studio of Acting in Los Angeles. In 2005 he played one of the leads in the Swedish National Television series Kommissionen (The Commission). In 2006 he played Horace in Molière’s play The School for Wives at the National Theatre of Stockholm. He also does voice-over work for Disney and DreamWorks among others, and is an approved Disney Director for dubbing.

In 2007 he performed at the Capital Fringe Festival in Washington, DC, in a one-man play A Swedish Tiger at the Woolly Mammoth Theatre. In 2008 he appeared in Alexander Burns' production of Hamlet at Carter Barron in Washington DC. In 2009 he played the neighbour in Ray Cooney's farce Run for your Wife at Mariebergskogen in Karlstad. In 2010 Gillinger was cast opposite Tate Donovan in the movie Below the Beltway directed by Dave Fraunces. He also returned to Sweden to appear as Erik, the male lead in the short Att bli med barn, which premiered at the Gothenburg Film Festival.

Filmography

 * 1992: Kl:k
 * 1993: Sune's Summer
 * 1993: Rederiet (TV series)
 * 1995: 30:e november
 * 1996: En fyra för tre (TV series)
 * 1996: Cluedo – en mordgåta (TV series; guest role)
 * 1997: Emma åklagare (TV series; guest role)
 * 1997: OP7 (TV series)
 * 2001: Blå måndag
 * 2005: Kommissionen

title: Göran Gillinger


text:
Jai Chiranjeeva

Jai Chiranjeeva is a 2005 Indian Telugu-language action comedy film directed by K. Vijaya Bhaskar and produced by Vyjayanthi Movies. The movie stars Chiranjeevi, Arbaaz Khan, Sameera Reddy and Bhumika Chawla. The film's music was composed by Mani Sharma with editing by Kotagiri Venkateswara Rao and cinematography by Venu. The film released on 22 December 2005. The film was remade into Bengali Bangladesh as Ziddi Mama (2012) starring Shakib Khan, Apu Biswas and Rumana.

Plot
Sathyanarayana Murthy is a rough but kind man who lives in Amalapuram who lives with his niece Lavanya, mother, sister, and brother-in-law. Sathya and Lavanya share a special bond and are the best of friends. One day, Lavanya falls off a swing in a park and dies. Sathya discovers that she has been murdered by arms dealer Pasupathi, who resides in Los Angeles. Driven by the desire for revenge, Sathya wants to travel to the US but faces an obstacle as he is uneducated and unable to obtain a travel visa. However, he meets and falls in love with Shailaja along the way. Despite his feelings for Shailaja, Sathya ends up marrying Neelima, who holds a US green card, with the intention of using her status to gain entry into LA. The story continues to unfold as Sathya and Neelima travel to LA, where Sathya plans to carry out his mission of killing Pasupathi. The remaining plot develops around this premise.

Cast

 * Chiranjeevi as Sathyanarayana Murthy alias Sattipandu
 * Arbaaz Khan as Pasupathi (Voiced by P. Ravi Shankar)
 * Bhumika Chawla as Neelima "Neelu"
 * Sameera Reddy as Sailaja "Sailu"
 * Bramhanandam as Neelima's uncle
 * Jaya Prakash Reddy as Ramakoti
 * Rahul Dev as Asghar, Pasupathi's henchman (Voiced by P. Ravi Shankar)
 * Sunil as Dhanushkoti, Ramakoti's son
 * Sumithra as Sathya's mother
 * Shriya Sharma as Lavanya, Sathya's niece
 * Sujitha as Sathya's sister
 * Sameer as Sathya's brother-in-law
 * Dharmavarapu Subramanyam as Sailaja's father
 * Sudha as Sailaja's mother
 * Vizag Prasad as Neelima's father
 * Venu Madhav as Venu, Sathya's friend
 * M. S. Narayana as Customs Officer
 * Tanikella Bharani as Visa Agent
 * AVS as Church Father
 * Uttej as Sathya's family friend
 * Naramalli Sivaprasad as Ramakoti's assistant
 * Ping Pong Surya as Rasool
 * Rajitha

Production
The film was launched on Ramanaidu Studios at 9 April 2005. the team has erected a 60 feet idol of Hanuman designed by art director Anand Sai near Gachibowli specifically for the film which took 20 days to be completed. The film's climax and one of the songs were shot in Los Angeles and on the Las Vegas strip, respectively.

Soundtrack
Soundtrack was composed by Mani Sharma. The audio was launched at Shilpa Kala Vedika on 14 November 2005.

Home media
The DVD of Jai Chiranjeeva was released by KAD Entertainment on February 7, 2006

Reception
Sify wrote "Jai Chiranjeeva offers very little by way of surprise and it is the one-man entertainment troupe called Chiranjeevi that salvages this uneven film". Idlebrain wrote "First half of the film is satisfactory with entertainment. There is lag in the second half. [..] Climax should have been handled better. The plus points of the film are Chiranjeevi and comedy dialogues by Trivikram. On the flipside, the main revenge objective of hero was not efficiently projected".

Awards

 * Nandi Award for Best Audiographer - Madhusudhan Reddy

title: Jai Chiranjeeva


text:
William B. McKinley

William Brown McKinley (September 5, 1856 – December 7, 1926) was an American banker and Republican politician who represented the state of Illinois in the United States House of Representatives for seven terms (1905–1913, 1915–1921) and in the United States Senate for one term from 1921 to 1926.

He also served as national campaign manager for President William Howard Taft's re-election bid in 1912, securing Taft's nomination by the Republican National Convention.

Biography
William Brown McKinley was born on September 5, 1856, near Petersburg, Illinois.

After attending the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign for two years, in around 1875 McKinley worked as a drug-store clerk in Springfield. He soon returned to Champaign to become a banker, specializing in farm mortgages. He entered politics in 1902, being elected a trustee of the University of Illinois. McKinley ran for the U.S. House of Representatives in 1904, winning his first of four consecutive terms. He lost re-election to the House in 1912. His re-election loss coincided with his service as national campaign manager for incumbent President William H. Taft, who also lost in 1912.

Voters in 1914 returned McKinley to the U.S. House, where he served from 1915 until 1921. In 1920, McKinley was elected to the U.S. Senate, taking office in 1921. In 1926, he ran for re-election and lost to Frank L. Smith (who ultimately was denied the seat by the Senate on the grounds of fraud and corruption in his campaign).

McKinley also was chief executive of the Illinois Traction System, an interurban electric railway. The McKinley Bridge between Venice, Illinois and St. Louis, Missouri was named for him. The McKinley Health Center at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is also named for him. McKinley died aged 70 in Martinsville, Indiana.

title: William B. McKinley


text:
Billericay railway station

Billericay railway station is a stop on the Shenfield to Southend Line in the east of England, serving the town of Billericay in the Basildon district of the county of Essex. The vast majority of services on the line connect to the Great Eastern Main Line, linking station in Southend-on-Sea to Liverpool Street station in London. The Engineer's Line Reference for the line is SSV and the station's three-letter station code is BIC. The platforms have an operational length for 12 carriages.

Billericay station is located in close proximity to the town's centre and industrial areas, sunk into a cutting in which the railway line is situated. It is located 24 mi from Liverpool Street and is placed between and  stations. The station and trains serving it are currently operated by Greater Anglia.

History

The line from Shenfield to Wickford, together with Billericay station, was opened for goods on 19 November 1888 and for passengers on 1 January 1889 by the Great Eastern Railway.[1]

There was a goods yard on the 'down' (eastbound) side of the running lines to the north-west of the station, including a goods shed, cattle pens and a crane. There was a signal box on the 'up' side to the north-west of the station. Goods traffic ceased on 15 June 1967 and the goods shed was demolished soon after. The Shenfield to Southend Victoria line was originally electrified using 1.5 kV DC overhead line electrification (OLE) on 31 December 1956. This was changed to 6.25 kV AC in November 1960 and to 25 kV AC on 25 January 1979.

There were two sidings at Ramsden Bellhouse, 2.75 miles east of Billericay station on the 'down' (north) side of the line. The sidings closed on 22 August 1960.

As part of the National Station Improvements scheme, the station underwent works costing around £1.7 million, which were completed in January 2012. These changes have completely altered the aspect of the station from the road side. A less changed 'twin' of Billericay station is Buckhurst Hill tube station, another Great Eastern Railway station, which was built in 1892.

Services
The station, and all trains serving it, are operated by Greater Anglia. The typical off-peak service is three trains per hour between Liverpool Street and Southend Victoria. During peak hours, additional trains also run between Liverpool Street, Shenfield and Southminster along the Crouch Valley Line.

title: Billericay railway station


text:
Juan Peña

Juan Peña may refer to:

 * Juan Peña (baseball) (born 1977), Dominican major league baseball player
 * Juan Manuel Peña (born 1973), Bolivian soccer player
 * Juan Peña (weightlifter) (born 1992), Dominican Republic weightlifter
 * Juan Felipe Peña, designer of the Peña Adobe at Peña Adobe Park

title: Juan Peña


text:
Before Jerusalem Fell

Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating The Book of Revelation is a 1989 book written by Kenneth Gentry based on his PhD dissertation from Whitefield Theological Seminary. The book is currently in its third edition and is published by American Vision in Atlanta, Georgia.

Content
The book presents a sustained argument from biblical hermeneutics, ancient history, textual criticism, archaeology, and Christian theology for why the Book of Revelation must have been written before the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, during the reign of Roman emperor Nero. Gentry argues that Nero Caesar is the "sixth king" presently ruling who functions in Revelation as the Beast.

Gentry focuses on the foundation of most external evidence for the late-date hypothesis of the Book of Revelation, which is a statement by Irenaeus that 'the Apocalyptic vision was seen during Domitian's reign'. The original statement is ambiguous, and Gentry proposes that it could also be translated to mean 'apostle John, who wrote the vision, was seen during Domitian's reign,' hence it is not relevant to the late date argument. Iraneaus is also considered prone to historical error as, for example, he wrote that Jesus lived until almost fifty years of age, after fifteen years of earthly ministry. These build reasons for Gentry to claim that Irenaeus' statement cannot be conclusive.

Controversy
The book is controversial, because it goes against majority evangelical and Dispensational opinion that Revelation was written in the reign of Domitian in AD 95, though the pre-AD 70 date for Revelation was the dominant view of scholars in the 19th century and first two decades of the 20th century.

title: Before Jerusalem Fell


text: User talk:80.168.134.190

title: User talk:80.168.134.190