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Talk:Lakin, Kansas

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title: Talk:Lakin, Kansas


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Annie L. Gatez School

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was No consensus, I'm moving it to Annie L. Gaetz School, Red Deer, Alberta though. Rx StrangeLove 06:17, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Annie_L._Gatez_School
No context, vanity Stillnotelf 05:11, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete per nomination. - Stillnotelf 05:11, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Given the rewrite, I keep my vote: not notable. - Stillnotelf 02:32, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Move to Annie L. Gaetz School, Red Deer, Alberta and stubbify. FCYTravis 05:18, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] Spinboy 05:35, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: It is a real school. If kept, it needs to be renamed as it's spelled incorrectly, but my vote is above. --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] Spinboy 05:37, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Move per FCYTravis. Xoloz 06:20, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The content of the article is "Annie L. Gatez is the most wonderful school for it is in our hometown Red Deer Alberta. Annie L. Gatez was a very nice, humorous, edjucated girl. Annie L. Gatez is where children count!". That is not an article. Delete. Sjakkalle (Check!)  09:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rewrite acknowledged, neutral. Sjakkalle (Check!)  11:16, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Content now changed. Xoloz 11:10, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Yellow Pages. Pilatus 12:31, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Hey, at least the original version had some content and made me giggle. Now it's just non-notable. --Last Malthusian 13:56, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - nn school.--Isotope23 17:05, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and Move to Annie L. Gaetz School, Red Deer, Alberta. Verifiable school in Red Deer.--Nicodemus75 18:07, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep for the usual reasons and move as already suggested. That said, is anyone else experiencing difficulty accessing the main article?  Both Firefox and Internet Explorer are freezing up when accessing it right now.  Silensor 20:21, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn school --JAranda | yeah 21:20, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete all public schools. 207.188.29.244 21:51, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete or barring that move it to the correct name and vastly expand it.Gateman1997 22:16, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep since the rewrite, real school, useful stub. Kappa 02:51, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * keep please it has been rewritten and it is neutral and verifiable and about a school so we should not erase this Yuckfoo 03:49, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and move to Annie L. Gaetz School, Red Deer, Alberta. An article on the board should have come first, but the article is still valuable, and will hopefully grow.  Regarding Silensor's comments, I couldn't access the school article earlier for quite a while.  I couldn't figure it out, since I could access other articles in wikipedia.  But now, it seems to work fine.  It was really weird.  --rob 03:50, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Article does not establish notability. --Carnildo 05:06, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. It's that simple when not notable.  Are there more schools with this name?  If not, then why move it?  Vegaswikian 05:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yellowpagifying? --Last Malthusian 08:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Will everyone calling for 'keep and expand' please say what interesting information they would like to see included in this article. (And not the bloody ethnic makeup of the students unless it's somehow important.) --Last Malthusian 08:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep deleting the odd random school article when 20+ a day are added is pointless. CalJW 08:55, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, failing that Move per above Ryan Norton T 09:16, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete deleting schoolcruft is good for the soul.Dunc|☺ 10:12, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Generic stub. Gamaliel 11:38, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and move to Annie L. Gaetz School, Red Deer, Alberta.  ALKIVAR ™[[Image:Radioactive.svg|18px|]] 21:07, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep usual reasons. --Vsion 22:35, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, another solid school article. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:36, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia can and should have an article about every verifiable enduring public institution in history, including this one. Keep. Gene_poole 04:03, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * We delete articles on private institutions every day under WP:NOT for advertising and WP:NOT indiscriminate collection of information. What's so special about public institutions? Do we want an article on every swimming pool, every landfill, every benefits office? They're all public institutions, just less 'romantic' than schools. --Last Malthusian 08:55, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Setting fictional material aside, we also keep articles about battle ships, bridges, train stations, and other notable institutions such as schools every day. The "coffee cup argument", or swimming pool in this instance, does not hold water.  Silensor 18:00, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep the rewrite per reasoning at Schools/Arguments.  Un  focused  04:15, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per Schools/Arguments Denni ☯ 23:35, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and move as suggested. Good rewrite. If the next Prime Minister came from this school how many Deletes would change to Keeps? Musser 03:57, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete yawn. We could have all these schools redirect to one article because they're all the same.  Grue  17:53, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete primary school which noone outside the vicinity will have heard of. -- red stucco 08:18, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn school.Dottore So 12:42, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Moving would be okay but I don't see the necessity because the name is probably unique. --Tony Sidaway Talk  22:10, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete not notable Dudtz 10/12/05 8:31 PM EST
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Witz

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete --Allen3 talk 17:32, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Witz
Non-notable open source chess engine. First release was December 2004 and it is described as still being in the early stages of development, a description applies to a hundred other non-notable chess programs as well. Give it time to be reviewed in magazines or attain a notable tournament success before writing an article. Quale 05:12, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom.    Dl yo ns 493   Ta lk   05:32, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Relisting this, not much input on this one. Rx StrangeLove 06:02, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. --Angr/undefined 07:07, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Dottore So 08:55, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Witz


text:
Golden Girl and the Guardians of the Gemstones

Golden Girl and the Guardians of the Gemstones was a line of toys manufactured by Galoob in 1984-1985.

Galoob's toy line was focused on eleven 6" action figures with 5 points of articulation, bendable legs and rooted hair. The line consisted of five female heroes, Golden Girl, Saphire, Rubee, Onyx and Jade (The Guardians of the Gemstones) and four female villains, Dragon Queen, Vultura, Moth Lady and Wild One (The Forces of Evil). Additionally there were two male action figures included in the line, Prince Kroma (aligned with the heroines) and Ogra (aligned with the villains). Each figure included a cape, a comb, a diecast shield with a shiny gemstone embedded in it, a headpiece and a weapon.

An extensive fashion line was produced in conjunction with the action figure line. 3 waves were released, and each wave contained an individual fashion for each of the 9 female characters. Each wave had a specific theme: Evening Enchantment, a line of gowns; Festival Spirit, a line of shiny outfits; and Forest Fantasy, a line of rustic outfits.

Additional play elements were released including a castle playset for the heroines, The Palace of Gems. Golden Girl's unicorn Olympia, and Dragon Queen's steed Shadow were also produced. Both horses were available for purchase by themselves or in separate deluxe sets that included chariots (w/ the chariots matching each horse's color scheme). 4 Dream Tents were produced for the action figures in limited numbers. A Collector's case to store the action figures was also released.

Galoob also licensed out play items separate from the action figure line including Find Your Own Fate books, activity books, storybooks, a sticker calendar, a stamp set, jigsaw puzzles and a board game. Additionally, a 3-D Colorforms playset was produced that included all 11 characters. The ethnicities of Vultura and Onyx were swapped in the Colorforms playset.

Non-playline items included a Golden Girl Halloween costume, a Thermos brand lunchbox, drinking cups and a sleeping bag. Wearable metallic brooches representing the 5 heroines (Golden Girl, Saphire, Rubee, Onyx and Jade) were also produced.

The Story
Golden Girl, Saphire, Rubee, Onyx and Jade are the Guardians of precious jewels called Gemstones. The Gemstones make the Guardians strong and skillful so they can defend the Kingdom of Argonia from all enemies. One of these enemies, Dragon Queen, seeks to conquer Argonia with her band of evil warriors Vultura, Moth Lady and Wild One.

The Guardians of the Gemstones
Each member of the Guardians of the Gemstones was produced in 6" action figure form. Each action figure had 5 points of articulation, including neck, shoulders, and hips as well as bendable legs. All figures had rooted hair, female and male, and included a comb. Accessories for each figure included a fabric cape, diecast metal shield, belt, weapon and headpiece. Each diecast shield has a shiny gemstone embedded in it representing the Hero or Villain it belonged to and could also be worn by the toy owner as a brooch.
 * Golden Girl - Princess of the Gemstone Guardians. "The beautiful and strong winner of the Argonia competitions against Dragon Queen. A gentle leader, Golden Girl, along with her able Guardians, faces constant conflict with the defeated and evil Dragon Queen. Even with the amazing power from her Gemstone shield and the magical help from her magnificent steed, Olympia, she is always on guard against attack. Will she always be able to protect the good people of Argonia and the precious powerful Gemstone?" Golden girl wore a gold metallic two piece outfit. Her cape were gold and white and her boots and wrist gauntlets were gold. Golden Girl did not wear as much makeup as the other characters, her earrings were gold and her lipstick was pink. Golden Girl had golden blonde hair and a gold crown. Her shield was in the shape of a golden bird with a white gemstone in the center of it and her weapon was a silver sword. Golden Girl had a production variation in her cape: she was sometimes produced with a blue and gold cape similar to Saphire's.
 * Saphire - Poweress of the Sea and Sky. The lovely warrior whose home is with the Sea Folk of the Cluster Isles. Saphire has the amazing ability to communicate with the creatures of the sea and the sky. And from them she receives a special strength to help win against the Evil Forces of the Dragon Queen". Saphire wore a blue one-shouldered bodice with golden accents. Her cape is blue and gold, and her boots and wrist gauntlets are dark blue with gold accents. Saphire's eye makeup was blue and white, her earrings were blue and her lipstick was pink. She had light blonde hair and a gold headband. Saphire's shield white and gold, in the shape of a star with a blue gemstone in the center of it and her weapon was a bladed lance. Saphire had a few production variations in both hair and make up: her hair was produced in both light blonde or dark blonde, and her eye makeup had two variants (one much heavier than the other).
 * Rubee - Fiery Champion on the Lightning Bow. A red-headed expert archeress from the Fire Isle. Her weapons are a silver bow and flare-tipped arrows.
 * Onyx - Challenger of the Sabered Sword. From the Isle of Dunes. Her weapons are throwing stones that possess amazing accuracy and returm to her hand after being throw and a saber with a serrated edge.
 * Jade - Mystic of the Secret Jewels. From the Ermaline Island. She uses a broadsword and possesses mystical insights.
 * Prince Kroma - Brave and Daring Hero of Battle. Occasionally joining the Guardians is Prince Kroma, whose nemesis is Ogra.

Dragon Queen's Forces of Evil
Each member of the Forces of Evil was produced in 6" action figure form. Each action figure had 5 points of articulation, including neck, shoulders, and hips as well as bendable legs. All figures had rooted hair, female and male, and included a comb. Accessories for each figure included a fabric cape, diecast metal shield, belt, weapon and headpiece. Each diecast shield has a shiny gemstone embedded in it representing the Hero or Villain it belonged to and could also be worn by the toy owner as a brooch.
 * Dragon Queen - Lives on Storm Isle after being banished from Argonia. She uses dark magic and carries a samurai sword. She rides a black horse called Shadow.
 * Vultura - Practices witchcraft and is armed with long, sharp claws.
 * Moth Lady - Born from a cocoon, she now has wings and carries a trident.
 * Wild One - Armed with knowledge of the wild, she carries a battle-axe
 * Ogra - Leader of another group known as the Barbarian Forces, Ogra occasionally joins Dragon Queen in fighting the Guardians.

Unproduced Concepts
Concept drawings of additional action figures, playsets and accessories exist.

The Guardians of the Gemstones
''A very small quantity of the Dymondia figure was released in Europe. The figure appears to be a repaint of the Rubee figure rather than including any unique molding, which seems to indicate the Dymondia figures may have been prototypes that Galoob was using to sell Series 2 to retailers. The Dymondia figure was in a new blue Series 2 box as opposed to the pink Series 1 box design. None of the other Series 2 Guardians of the Gemstones characters are known to have been produced.''
 * Dymondia - Dymondia's bodice, gauntlets, skirt and boots were white with dark pink accents in a fanned shape. Instead of a cape, she had light pink wings, similar to those of a bird (as opposed to Moth Lady's insect-like wings). Dymondia's hair was white, and looks like it was designed to sparkle. She wore a golden headband with a diamond at the center near her forehead. Dymondia's diamond-shaped shield was white, dark pink and gold and contained a diamond gemstone. Her weapon was a white and gold staff, topped by a diamond.
 * Coral - Coral's bodice and boots were white, with golden shells embellished on them. Her crown and wrist gauntlets were golden, and her crown had a golden netting that cascaded over her hair. Coral's hair was pink. She carried a white shield with red embellishments and a white and gold trident.
 * Turquoise - Turquoise's bodice was white with blue details and white flowers. She wore a blue cape and her white boots have a tasseled fringe. Turquoise had black hair and wears a white crown with a flower design on it, as well as white hair ties on her pigtails. Turquoise's look seems to be inspired by a Native American motif. She carries a white shield with a blue gemstone and a white staff.
 * Pearl - Pearl's bodice, gauntlets and boots were white with embellishments of gold. She wore a dark pink skirt and sash over her bodice, along with a short cape that was dark pink and white. Pearl had blonde hair and wore a white butterfly shaped crown. Pearl carried a white shield and a white staff, both with gold embellishments.

The Forces of Evil
None of the Series 2 Forces of Evil characters are known to have been produced.
 * Spidra - Spidra had a webbed design on her green bodice, gauntlets and boots. Spidra's cape was a black weblike material and a red spider spanned across her bodice. Her eye makeup was green and white and she looked to have makeup or a tattoo on the right side of her face that spanned from her forehead down to her jawline. Spidra had fiery red hair and wore a green jeweled crown in the shape of a spiderweb. Her shield was green, with a red gemstone and she carried a sword.
 * Centaura - Centaura was a red centaur with black hair and a beard. His lower body was that of a horse, with a spiked tail and spiked hooves. He was to wear a black chestplate with silver markings. Centaura wore gauntlets, carried a shield and a black double-edged spear.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oxford Future of Humanity Institute

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. Rx StrangeLove 06:33, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Oxford Future of Humanity Institute
Looks like vanity or advertisement, and apparently incomplete and/or vandalized. Wapoo 05:14, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Copyvio from    Dl yo ns 493   Ta lk   05:34, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * the history shows it was vandalized because it was an advertisement. The vandal, 70.25.196.197, appears to spend his wiki time deleting what he considers to be NPOV violations from pages about republicans. but regardless, he was right to try to do something about this page, just wrong in his method of doing so. Delete.CastAStone 05:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Pend Oreille Valley Railroad

The Pend Oreille Valley Railroad is a shortline railroad located in Usk, in northeast Washington.

Route
The POVA serves the communities of Usk, Dalkena, Newport, Oldtown, Priest River, Laclede and has trackage rights from Dover-Sandpoint via the Union Pacific Railroad.

The Route from Usk to Newport is former Milwaukee Road trackage and Newport-Dover is former Great Northern RY trackage.

The line used to go to Metaline Falls but was abandoned north of Usk in 2016

History
The line was built by the Idaho and Washington Northern Railroad between 1907 and 1911. The Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad (MILW) acquired the line in 1916.

The MILW entered financial difficulty in the 1970s and the Newport - Metaline Falls section was sold to Port of Pend Oreille following the company's downsizing. The Port of Pend Oreille established the Pend Oreille Valley Railroad and contracted railroad holding company Kyle Railways to manage the POVA. Freight service began on October 1, 1979, and the Port of Pend Oreille took over the POVA's management from Kyle Railways in 1984. On March 3, 1998, the Newport - Dover section was acquired from BNSF, along with 7 miles of trackage rights between Dover and the interchange yard at North Sandpoint.

Heritage railroad
Beginning in 1981, the North Pend Oreille Valley Lions Club worked with the POVA to operate a seasonal excursion train service on several weekends in the summer and fall.

The 20 mi round trip ran from Ione to Metaline Falls along the spectacular Box Canyon, passing through several tunnels and crossing several bridges and wooden trestles. The passenger cars consisted of 3 standard coaches as well as 3 open-air cars and a caboose with some equipment borrowed from the Inland NW Railway Historical Society.

Financial issues hurt the excursion train service, as upkeep and inspections became cost prohibitive. In October 2016, the railroad operated its last excursion.

title: Pend Oreille Valley Railroad


text:
File:Atari combat2.png

Summary
Screenshot from Atari's Combat 2 game

title: File:Atari combat2.png


text:
Talk:M. Shadows

M Shadows page/ Val singing on new CD
It clearly says on both the wikipedia page for the new CD and the packet for the new CD that Val isn't the one singing in ALPOH so whoever keeps making it say that it is should stop editing it. Juliette Commagere is the person who sings on ALPOH. Val ONLY screams the very first scream in the song scream.

About MIA
The part about MIA and the military may be able to be cited. There may have been blogs posted on their Myspace about those thing. www.myspace.com/avengedsevenfold

Wow.... this is a really short article.

I thought i read more on here once...

There was, once. Some of it was bad, but some was accurate, and I'd like to find the person who raped the article of it's content before.

 * I've been keeping an eye on the article, keeping it clear of a lot of junk that people keep adding to it. If you review the kinds of things I've been removing, you'll find that it is a generally poorly-spelled mix of trivia of questionable legitimacy and other stuff that doesn't belong here. --Improv 16:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not too familiar with working this but I thought also there was a lot more to read, and didn't it say in the trivia before that he is a non - smoker? If so is this true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by B.Shadows (talk • contribs) 09:19, 20 February 2008 (UTC) It's true. There hasn't been mention or indication of whether or not he ever smoked, but he did say in an interview around Christmas 2007 that he also stopped drinking. He only drinks on occasions now (like birthday parties, etc) because he's been taking care of himself so he can perform every night. I'd assume that if he preserves his voice by not drinking on tour, he probably doesn't smoke either. I'll keep searching for the video...it was on Youtube, but I can't remember exactly which one.

Cleanup notice
The article needs a lot of work to be decent, partly because existing content is poor (bad grammar, etc), partly because people keep adding junk to it, and partly because it doesn't have enough of the basics (date/place of birth, etc). --Improv 09:11, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

you guyz really need to get more information on th is rock band not just ther ful names and about how there journey was in being a succesfull band i an stuf duh!!

image does not help the article. Removing it.
Please don't re-add the image. It has a visible copyright marker on it, and is very unattractive. --Improv 03:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

==Other appearances= Theres one missing that was on here before. M. Shadows did vocals for another band on myspace. I looked for it, but couldn't find it. if someone can find it and readd it, it'd be nice. Darkervisions (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

update
maybe there should be included something about his throat sugery?--Nytemunkey 01:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps, but remember, thats not why he doesn't scream anymore.  Boa  Drumm  er   22:41, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

possible POV?
In the first paragraph of the bio, last sentence, it says, "In fact Avenged Sevenfold's new sound is largely because of the bands ability to progress as artists since signing with major label Warner Brothers." Personally, I think this is slightly POV or just an unfounded statement. If nobody has any objections within a few days, I'll delete it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Boadrummer (talk • contribs) 22:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

Yeah, that sounds fine with me.--Tyhart87 04:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Removed
"M Shadows is HOTT as hell." took it out of the trivia section.he had a kid!!!!!!!! Nickvsshark 18:22, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MShadows.jpg
Image:MShadows.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 01:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

i think...
i think someone should make it clear to people that he has a girlfriend name Val and that he is currently engaged to her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.83.243.192 (talk) 23:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * someone apparently did but failed to cite sources. but this whole article isnt cited either way... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.104.173.73 (talk) 10:04, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Good Charlotte
Didn't he do the backing vocals to "The River" by good charlotte on the cd Good Morning Revival? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.96.63 (talk) 17:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * yeah, he & synyster did. -- justicemanlolz

Shadows' vocals
In the 'vocal style' section it says that on Sounding the Seventh Trumpet/Waking the Fallen he used screaming and 'guttural vocals'. Guttural vocals refer to the death growl, and if you have heard the death growl before, you know that's not what Shadows does. Does anyone mind if I drop the guttural vocals claim, and make it only say that he screamed? as that is a better description of his vocals... Xanthic-Ztk (talk) 03:47, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Deletion?
This article has had notices for four months now. And it does not reach the music guidelines, should it be deleted? 62.30.219.79 (talk) 22:50, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:M. Shadows


text:
Talk:Link (The Legend of Zelda)/Archive 1

Misplacement
A recent revision stated that the Oracle games are generally considered to take place between a link to the past and link's awakening. I have deleted it since the revisor did not provide a verifying link. Also, the timeline of the Legend of Zelda series is very controversial, and as such there is little solid evidence onto which came first. I understand that popular opinion may be tempting to use, but it isnt canon. Until Nintendo actually releases the true legend of zelda timeline, we will not know the proper order. Crisco 1492 09:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Link + Young Link?
There's a lot of data in these two, and some seems to cross over. Now I'm not saying they should be merged, but even so should duplicate data be moved into the sole appropriate one? Please discuss. Master Thief Garrett 23:15, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the Young Link article is actually redundant. "Young Link" actually is Link; Link just happens to be a child/youth in most games. The only games an actual distinction is made is Super Smash Bros. Melee (the name "Young Link" comes from that game) and Ocarina of Time, where the player can be both the younger and the older version of Link at various points. Both games are covered in this article. If you find something that's not already here (for example, the mention of his slingshot), go ahead and merge it. Phils 05:46, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a plan... I'll look into doing that... Master Thief Garrett 11:38, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I can't stand how people are making Adult Link out to be the main Link, especially HAL. Two games as Adult Link and he becomes the main form of Link.--A Link to the Past 01:08, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I guess they don't think Young Link is "cool" enough... that, and a surprising number have only played (or only *want* to play) the 3D games, which all (excl. TWW) feature Adult Link prominently. Master Thief GarrettTalk 02:56, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Nya? I know you're agreeing with me, but still, Link isn't featured prominently. Majora's Mask doesn't feature an adult form of Link; there are no adult Link transformations. There are that Zora, Darmani, the Deku Scrub and Fierce Deity Link.--A Link to the Past 03:17, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Personally I always found the "true" Link to be a conbination of "young" Link and "mature" Link. Inbetween, adolescent. Young Link seems a little too young to me, and in earlier games he's quite distinctively younger looking than Ocarina of Time Link. He always looked in the middle, 13-14 ish.
 * Although as he seems to generally be older in the newest one, Twilight Princess, I suppose Miyamoto wants to try more things with the older Link. To me, I find Link to be Miyamotos' never ending experiment, along with the rest of the series. Continuity, Link's true age, each different generation, its all second to making a totally new atmosphere for the current game to Miyamoto I think. As such, he may be prone to doing a lot to Link to experiment, so really maybe there is no "true" Link. Generally, he's just Link...in different flavors. But its still Link. --Kiyosuki 17:58, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What about Link in the CD-I games?
why is there no mention of the cd-i zeldas? horrendous as they may be, they deserve mention.

Lockeownzj00
 * I'd add info on them, but I don't know anything about them. Andre ( talk )A| 02:09, Dec 19, 2004 (UTC)

 * You could possibly glean info from FAQs. A contact of mine owns all three, so I could possibly get him to contribute. We'll see... actually, I recently found some rips of the opening cutscenes of two of the games (Faces of Evil and... one of the others), but I doubt anything could be gleaned from them other than that this is the most embarassing depiction of Link ever! Master Thief Garrett 23:15, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Note that the original request for information about the CD-i games was made before I added the CD-i section to the article. I saw the CD-i game where you play Link (the other two feature Zelda as protagonist) and frankly, apart from the fact they add no information about Link, they are downright horrible. If you search google, you'll find a few screenshots as well as (generally poor) reviews and walkthroughs. Phils 16:55, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * ah, I see! I didn't actually check on that. You've only mentioned Faces of Evil, but he's exactly the same in each of the three (well, two) so that still applies. You should maybe add the other game name to the header (its name escapes me at the moment) so people know he's the same in both. Master Thief Garrett 22:15, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Age at beginning of WW
I have noticed editors (including myself) cannot agree over Link's age at the beginning of WW. I own the game (Europe PAL version) and I can confirm my version indicates he was 12 years old. Maybe there's a difference between US/Japan/EU versions? Can anyone offer insight on this? Phils 17:12, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * The key is NOT how old he was, but rather the age of the "coming of age" "clothed in green" ceremony thing. I can't find an age reference other than "came of age", "time certainly flies", "already old enough", etc., in the game script at GameFAQs. So I have no idea if they EVER give an age for him. So what confirmation is it that you say you found? I couldn't find "12" or "twelve" in the script... it could be the US version has a subtly altered script (like The Minish Cap did)... but then again why would they change it? (Garrett, 12:35, 13 Apr 2005, GMT)
 * I have no idea why they changed it. The modifications between localizations of Nintendo games often make little sense (ex.: Metroid Prime). The mention of the age '12' appears at the end of the starting sequence in my game (you know, that sequence with the 'ancient papyrus' look). I have no way to take screenshots from my TV but I'll try making a photo and upload it if the text is legible. Phils 09:13, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I found the source of all that confusion. EU Pal versions of Nintendo games are multilingual; I just switched the language for the game from French to English and watched the intro sequence again. It turns out that for some reason, the French localization team decided to "translate" 'coming of age' with 'douze' (twelve). If translations for localized versions are all as free as this one, I can imagine other versions might indicate ten as being Link's age at the beginning of the game. Now that the issue's cleared up, what do we put into the article? Should we mention differences between the versions? Phils 09:28, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * That's a VERY good little summary you've got there already, it'd just need padding! Of course the best thing would be to go back to the original Japanese text to see if it mentioned his age, as language scripts other than Japanese (the unadulterated original with the truest meaning) and English (the language the most time is spend on due to its enormous audience) cannot be accepted as canonical. Most real-world "coming of age" ceremonies seem to fall around twelve, but ten is also a good possibility. Actually, I found some screengrabs of the opening scenes, and I also have a Hylian Text decoding thing someone drew up, so I will check to see if the original Hylian text refers to his age. That is, of course, if the Hylian Text is localised. I'm not sure if it would change for all languages (you could perhaps check this by simply memorising one or two of the symbols on the first page and then switching languages to see if they're different) but I know for a fact that the Hylian Text in the US version is in English, just with the alphabet replaced with the Hylian symbols. I hope I can find that chart again! Master Thief Garrett 11:54, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * No, it does not change between versions. I found I had a Jap and Eng shot of the same scene and it's identical. I was mistaken about it being in English, it's actually a form of Japanese. This is a VERY exciting finding, as I can convert the entirety into phonetic characters and then run it through a translator to get a basic idea. The WW alphabet has numbers(!) so it may well contain an age reference! I will update with my findings either way. Master Thief Garrett 12:07, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"age at beginning" dialog to be translated
I've worked it out, but I can't really translate it myself. I am unsure as to where most of the spaces are to be. I've used ( — ) at the most likely gaps--this symbol is NOT representing any katakana symbol--but I really don't know if those are supposed to be spaces or not. Hopefully someone with Japanese knowledge can translate it. I have numbered each line starting with the TOP-LEFT line and going straight down to the bottom of the page, and THEN changing to the second column after that. I may have made some mistakes; if so tell me, and I can go back to the original script and you what the correct character actually is.

1. na-ga-i-to-ki-wo-he-te-i-ma-ko-no // ナガイトキヲヘテイマコノ

2. mo-no-ga-ta-ri-wo — tsu-ta-e-ki-ku // モノガタリヲ — ツタエキク

3. mo-no-ta-chi-ha-de-n-se-tsu-yu-u-shi-ya // モノタチハデンセツユウシヤ

4. ni-na-zo-ra-e-te-o-to-ko-no-ko-ga // ニナゾラエテオトコノコガ

5. ro-i-chi-yo-u-shi-ta — to-ki-so-no // ロイチヨシタ — トキソノ

6. i-wa-i-to-shi-te-mi-do-ri — no — ko-se-mo // イワイシテミドリ — ノ — コセモ

7. wo-tsu-ku-ri-te-ki-se-ru-yo-u-ni // ヲツクリテキセルヨウニ

8. na-tsu-ta-to-i-u // ナツタトイウ

9. mi-do-ri — no — ko-se-mo-ma-to-i-shi // ミドリ — ノ — コセモマトイシ

10. mo-no-hi-ka-ri-ha-na-tsu-ke-n-wo // モノヒカリハナツケンヲ

11. mo-chi-te-ji-ya-ki-wo-ke-shi-sa-ru // モチテジヤキヲケシサル

12.de-n-se-tsu — no — yu-u-shi-ya-ni-mo // デンセツ — ノ — ユウシヤニモ

13. ma-ke-na-i-ri — tsu-ba-na-hi-to-ni // マケナイリ — ツバナヒトニ

14. so-da-tsu-te-bo-shi-i-to-ne-ga-i-wo // ソダツテボシイトネガイヲ

15. ta-ku-shi-te タクシテ

So if someone could translate that, we'd know for sure if Link's age was given or not. Master Thief Garrett 00:35, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * It might be untranslatable, at least without serious decoding. Some Japanese games like to put things like that in word-puzzle form, making translation hard but a special treat to those who accomplish it.  A good example is in Final Fantasy X, where the Japanese lyrics to a song (the Hymn of the Fayth) had the syllables scrambled to make them illegible until rearranged.  --Mance

 * That's a possibility. However, the Zelda 2005 trailer showed a gravestone with a Hylian inscription and within hours of the trailer's release someone had already translated it as "here lies a knight of hyrule" or some such thing.
 * But then again that doesn't necessarily mean a thing, Zelda 2005 could be written plain and simple and this complicated. Oh well, at least I made an effort. Master Thief Garrett 00:09, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've been slowly working to translate some of this. Two years of japanese classes really aren't enough, but armed with a dictionary to help out, I'm making a little progress. I can tell you that I don't think any age is mentioned though... any number between 10 and 19 will start with "juu", and there is no juu in the text there. Don't hold your breath for my translation though, I'm really not very good at this. Here's where I am: Nagai = Long, toki = time, wo (no translation, part of grammar, indicates object of sentence), heta = ???, ima = now, kono = this, monogatari = story, tsutaekiku = tell. You can get a bit of a gist there... "A long time ago, there tells a story...". It's not "Once upon a time" because that translates more specifically as "Mukashi no kashi". Fieari 14:45, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

 * COOL! Sounds fine, accuracy doesn't matter much. If I could have worked out the spaces myself I would have run it through a translator, and I'm sure your translation will be far more complete (web translators never catch all the words). So thanks for that! We might not find the exact age, but at least we'll find out once and for all if it *doesn't* cover it. Master Thief GarrettTalk 00:46, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Link's Friend
I'm sorry, but the idea that Link went off into the forest to search for someone he barely knew is a plausible concept. The only reasonable idea is that he was searching for Navi.--A Link to the Past 00:09, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, Skull Kid had one of the most minor roles in the game. Heck, I'd sooner search for the missing Cucco Lady than I would for Skull Kid...

 * on the Skull Kid evidence side, Behind the Rupees covered a convincing theory...

 * But I agree it's likely Navi. After all, where *did* Navi go? And it talked about a "dearly loved friend" or whatnot. I can't say that Skull Kid fits the bill, he was just a weird thing that didn't talk... but Navi, while annoying the heck out of players by constantly saying "HEY! LISTEN!" certainly was liked by Link if no-one else. And was with him throughout his journey. So, yes, I agree it should probably be Navi that's mentioned and not the Skull Kid. Master Thief Garrett 00:20, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Actually, the 'friend' in question is Epona, whom Skull Kid stole at the beginning of "Majora's Mask". Navi was not about in the beginning of that game. He didn't such as "go to the forest to find navi" but, was in the forest when Skull Kid jumped out and then took Epona.

 * Well, the way I understood the story, the "going to look for a friend" occurred before the encounter with Skull Kid, ruling out this possibility. Deco 07:41, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes. When you watch the cutscene it talks about Link going to find his friend and then cuts to him... riding Epona. Now if that text appeared after the Skullkid encounter, then that would make sense. You don't look for something you haven't lost--and indeed look for that thing while riding on it! Master Thief GarrettTalk 08:52, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oni Link?
It's Kishin Link, which is roughly close to how they translated it. He's only referred to as 'Oni' because the oni is 'it' in japanese 'tag' games, and the Majora child wants him to play a game.. so yeah, it's not Oni Link. That's why he doesn't have horns.
 * Two things:
 * What do you mean? Please express yourself more clearly if you want to be taken seriously.
 * "Oni Link" google hits: 4,620
 * "Kishin Link" google hits: 28
 * "Fierce Deity Link" google hits: 1,510
 * Thus, Oni Link is much more likely to be more correct.
 * Oni Link is the most popular fan name, and I've modified the article to indicate that it is the name used by fans and not an officially sanctioned name. There is no name specified in the game or manual. Deco 05:09, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The game specified the name for the mask as "fierce deity", so wouldn't it be Fierce Deity Link? Also, he's right about 'it' in 'tag' being called 'the demon' ('oni') in Japan. Anyone who watches Urusei Yatsura knows that. ;-)

Good work
I saw this on the main page and was intrigued. After reading the first few sections, I want to congratulate the writers; this is very comprehensive, accessable to the uninitiated, and well-written. This is clearly among Wikipedia's best articles. A couple things could make it even better, though: splitting the "fighting abilities and weaponry" section would make for an easier read, and more pictures would brighten things up a bit. Congratulations on your great work. Dave (talk) 03:24, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * I split the section in two in the most appropriate way — the Swords section is still a bit long though. Some weapons pictures would be great, especially art, if anyone has any. Thanks for your feedback. Deco 05:08, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks. Maybe it could be split into Swords, Sword techniques, and Other weapons?  Dave (talk) 15:34, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Good idea. Done. Deco 21:26, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot; I'm glad you appreciated it, thanks to you too for your great copyedit and damage control work yesterday, Deco. It's nice to see the article getting some attention again, as the edit rate had gone down a bit the past weeks. I hope once I'm free from school, I can do the same with another video-game related article. Phil s 05:42, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Four Swords?
Where's all the info on Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures? A lot of fans like to just ignore those games, but surely that's not the right attitude to have in this here encyclopedia is it? ^_^
 * I haven't played these games, but feel free to add any information you believe is appropriate. It may be that these games lie outside the story of the Zelda universe. Deco 23:34, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Tetris Cameo?
What cameo in tetris did link have? --ZeWrestler 01:25, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * When you win certain levels Tetris would display Nintendo characters as a reward. I'm sure someone could get a screenshot. Deco 05:38, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah I couldn't find it at tetris :( --MarSch 14:35, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * so does it exist? --ZeWrestler 14:27, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * http://www.classicgaming.com/tmk/tetris-nes.shtml he plays flute --Phred Levi 18:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Character list
To avoid redundancy and keep this article a reasonable size, I've taken the rather aggressive step of listing only characters who directly assist Link in dungeons and such, not just give him hints or items (arguably fairies don't fit this, but Navi/Tatl were involved with the control in OoT/MM.) I linked to the main series character article, which links all the other character articles - that should be a fine starting place for people interested in a more comprehensive Zelda character list. Deco 1 July 2005 02:17 (UTC)

Hero of Time
The [Legeond of Zelda Encyclopedia] at Zelda.com makes it clear that the term is relevent to all subsequent and previous games. Also, since Ocarina of Time is a prequal to the original games, the term canon and is thusly valid. The fact that it is not used in the earlier games is obviously from the fact that the term was not created for use yet, which was subsequently remedied in the prequal. Ereinion July 2, 2005 08:40 (UTC)
 * Though that site is intended to be "official", the name obviously makes no sense with reference to any other Link but that of Ocarina, since no other Link travels in time. Some titles like Wind Waker refer to the Link of Ocarina using the title, but that's different. I don't know, change it if you want, but it just seems really odd to me. Deco 2 July 2005 09:00 (UTC)
 * While I don't think all Links are the Hero of time, any more than they're all the Hero of Winds, the Oracle series Link travels in time and is called the Hero of Time in both games. -- WikidSmaht 10:42, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * Or not. I searched for the phrase in the text dumps of both games, and I guess I misremembered. -- WikidSmaht 17:39, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

The Wind Waker makes it impossible for "Hero of Time" to be a name for all Links; besides, the previous formulation in the article did not exclude interpretation, while right now we are stating something that is certainly not widely accepted as true. Nowhere in any of the games do NPCs call Link (the one controlled by the player) "The Hero of Time", so it doesn't really qualify as an honorary title. Besides, he isn't being called "The Hero of Time" because he has many incarnations, but because in OoT, he has the power to control time using his Ocarina. Arguably no one in Hyrule, not even Link himself knows that he is a reincarnation of some hero of old. Phil s 2 July 2005 10:36 (UTC)

I just want to add my voice in here. I agree with Phils... The Wind Waker made it abundantly clear that Hero of Time applied only to the Ocarina Link. And it does make sense, as he does manipulate time... using the Song of Time... during the game. In Ocarina, he jumps ahead and back 7 years. In Majora's Mask, he keeps repeating the same three days repeated. Sounds like "Hero of Time" is appropriate for such a guy. It has nothing to do with the reincarnation thingy. Fieari July 3, 2005 00:52 (UTC)
 * Agree on all points with Phils and Fieari. Deco 3 July 2005 02:56 (UTC)

It has neither been confirmed nor denied that that is the case. And just because Wind Waker refers to the original Link as the Hero of Time specifically, it doesn't necessarily remove the title from any other Link down the line. However, with protest I'll concede to the consensus. Ereinion July 3, 2005 22:32 (UTC)
 * Concede to this: Zelda.com sucks. They gave the worst timeline EVER, and Miyamoto made the webmaster take it down. That webmaster, by the way, knows less about Zelda than a lot of the fans here. They hired him for his site building skills, not his Zelda skills. The fact that he believes they're all the Hero of Time is irrelevant; the fact that he doesn't know Zelda, however, is not. -- A Link to the Past July 4, 2005 08:12 (UTC)

I've had this same argument with Erinion before about the sentence "The exact role of the Master Sword varies from game to game. In general, it acts as a weapon for the chief protagonist and Hero of Time, Link." in the opening paragraph of the Master Sword article. In the end I just gave up. The Hero of Time might have been possible to use for all Links at one point, but since The Wind Waker that is clearly no longer possible. Also, most fans (at least in my observation) use the term to refer exclusively to the Link from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. Ian Moody 4 July 2005 13:04 (UTC)

Link in other media
I'm unqualified to write it, but this article should probably have a section about Link in cartoons (there was an animated series), manga (perhaps including doujinshi), and other media. BrianSmithson 5 July 2005 13:06 (UTC)

I was just thinking the same thing about the series. I'll try to write something in. Cookiecaper 7 July 2005 08:06 (UTC)
 * Some is covered in The Legend of Zelda series, but I guess we should discuss it from the perspective of Link's role. In particular, I would mention how the animated series used a drastically different personality for Link than the games, leading many fans to reject them. What a sad chapter of our hero's life. Deco 7 July 2005 08:15 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've always appreciated the way the makers elegantly avoid revealing too much about Link to maintain the mystery around him. Cookiecaper's paragraph about the animated series Link is quite good, BTW. Phil s 7 July 2005 11:28 (UTC)
 * Agreed, good para Cookie. Deco 8 July 2005 04:35 (UTC)
 * ooooh, yes, that is good, now we just need a screengrab of him. After all we've shown, what, four different incarnations, might as well show one more since he's so different from all the others... now, which shot to take I wonder? :) Master Thief GarrettTalk 8 July 2005 09:14 (UTC)
 * There's the title screen from the series article, but something showing his personality would be better. Maybe the one from this classic shock site: Deco 9 July 2005 01:01 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's a good one! :) But maybe get an "excuuuuse me" that shows more of his body, because he did dress quite differently. But ZU has all the episodes for download so finding the right shot is no difficult task. Plus the supreme crappiness of those rips makes the "fair use" a bit stronger too :) Master Thief GarrettTalk 9 July 2005 03:37 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliments, guys. Really I stole most of it from another page here on Wikipedia, I don't remember which one. So that guy came up with most of the smart stuff there. ;) I'll see if I can find a good picture of Link soon. Cookiecaper 22:17, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

Deletion of all RPG characters from Wikipedia
I thought I would bring it to everyone's attention that it is being proposed that all RPG character articles should be deleted. If this is approved, then this article, as well as the Princess Zelda article and most other articles in the LoZ characters category will be deleted. As this has been noted as one of the best Wikipedia articles existing, I thought the people who come here may want to know that it is very possible that it will be deleted.

To vote, go to: Criteria_for_speedy_deletion/Proposal/7 (Added by User:Warpedmirror at 22:17 UTC 10 July 2005 - Cookiecaper 04:25, 11 July 2005 (UTC))

 * Thanks for the heads-up man. I'll send out an alert at WP:CVG. Cookiecaper 04:25, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Whoops, already there. I thought I had it on my watchlist, apparently not. ^_^ Cookiecaper 04:26, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Beat you too it ;) --ZeWrestler 11:55, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

But Zelda games are not really RPGs, (No stats, levelling, etc) they should not be in danger.

 * Let's please not start the Zelda RPG debate here. I don't imagine any campaign as unconditionally deletionistic as this could possibly succeed, but what the hell, might as well trample it to dust. For what it's worth, Cookiecaper and some others are somewhat misrepresenting this proposal, which was really a poorly-worded attempt to add vanity articles on fictional characters to speedy deletion. (I still disagree with it though) Deco 18:23, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Zelda.com
Zelda.com isn't really that great of a source. While it's the Nintendo approved one, they hired someone with good HTML skills, not someone with good Zelda skills. Don't you think we should remove the occasional references? -- A Link to the Past 06:51, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * Um, as long as they don't contradict anything canonical or offer any sort of misinformation. For example the Four Swords page still shows the beta Links! But then again I don't think using a superior equivalent at ZU/ZL/etc. wouldn't raise too many eyebrows. GarrettTalk 07:43, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I'd say they did. Don't you remember that hideous timeline? -- A Link to the Past 09:08, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * No they don't. What is referenced does not contradict the encyclopedia. Remove the references and this article will have o be de-featured, though. Besides I actually *did* use it as a source, so removing it would be intellectually dishonest. Phil s 10:51, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Where was Link when... (WW opening)
Refering to this paragraph:
 * The reincarnation theory is given backing in The Wind Waker, in which Hyrule is a long-gone land of myth, flooded following an attack by Ganon while Link was searching for Navi during The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, and the main protagonist may be the spirit of Link, reincarnated to save Hyrule from Ganon.

I don't think that's quite right. I was under the impression from the Aonuma quote that it wasn't that Link was in Termina at the time, but rather that "Adult Link" had gone back in time, existing in a newly split off timeline... and as such, no longer exists in the world where he, as an adult, helped banish Ganon to the sacred realm. Or am I interpreting things differently from others? Fieari 22:11, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * It's just you. The Link in legend is young, remember. And everything syncs up for him to have gone to Termina; leaving Hyrule and all, and he was going on a quest to find Navi. Since the Triforce has no involvement in this, it remained in Hyrule, and the Triforce is never mentioned in Majora's Mask, so that would indicate that he may not even have it. -- A Link to the Past 22:22, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

The Legend of Zelda series article says the following:
 * The controversy of the multiple timeline debate began when Eiji Aonuma in a speech about Kaze no Takuto (Takt of Wind) before it was released in Japan, in which he stated Ocarina of Time had two endings and two time periods. He said The Wind Waker took place 100 years after the end of the Adult Link ending.

Majora's Mask seems unequivicably to take place after the Child Link ending... or is that also disputed? Fieari 23:04, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * The 100 years idea isn't even canon. It's a mistranslation. -- A Link to the Past 23:22, July 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * That's because the japanese language has no plural form of words (any words). The translation for "One Hundred" and "Hundreds" would be more or less identical. On the other hand, it'd be pretty difficult to mistranslate "Child" and "Adult"... Fieari 01:40, July 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * What, were they going for the world record of 'youngest adult ever'? Link of Legend looks like a kid. -- A Link to the Past 02:04, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

Since The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess officially takes place several decades after OoT, but before WW, we can categorically confirm that the flooding did not occur during MM. -- WikidSmaht 13:43, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Weapons & Items
I was thinking of overhauling the "Other Weapons" section to include more comprehensive details on Link's other weapons and items. Or should I just start a whole new article and link it? -- WikidSmaht 10:42, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

 * This is just my opinion, but I think it's best to include game-specific weapons and items in the article for their respective games, and only treat recurring items such as those mentioned here in general series articles. It might be alright to have an article that treats these recurring items in greater depth, but we don't need a comprehensive list of every little item from every game — it's just not all that useful. Deco 02:19, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, what about overhauling each game page with a weapon section and linking those?  WikidSmaht 07:49, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Minish Cap (timeline)
An anon just put the following text under the Minish Cap section: According to the creators of Zelda, this game is the first in the series. Anyone have a quote? I'm commenting it out for the moment, but I'd be glad to return it with a reference. Fieari 21:35, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * It's speculation, although I certainly agree, but it is not confirmed by the developers. Many reoccuring items are created in this game, for one. -- A Link to the Past 23:10, August 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur. Over my exploration of the Zelda series, there's never been any definitive placement of the game.  Furthermore, being that it is made by a second party other than Nintendo, it makes it just as unlikely that there would be official references to it. The Missing Link 00:52, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Recurring items created? other than the Four Sword? Cite, please. On the other hand, I do consider the Capcom games canon, since they were published by Nintendo. -- WikidSmaht 17:39, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Overhaul
Obviously, not everyone's going to be satisfied by any version, but I spent a lot of time on this rewrite, and had a very specific reason for pretty much every change I made. I'd hate to see the work go to waste, so if you're going to revert any of it, I respectfully request a note here explaining why. I'll also be happy to answer any questions you have about my choices.

To nip a few complaints I anticipate in the bud:

 * I commented out the stuff in the Other Weapons section because it seemed unnecessary here, but it may be useful when I write the weapons sections for the game articles. Regarding the hammer: it only appears in 4 games, and it's not even a weapon in AoL.

 * Bad puns and sillyness in the Four Swords game sections. Well, OK, I have no excuse except being tired. Take that out if you must.

WikidSmaht 08:34, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * The only thing I really noticed was how horrible the Table of Contents looks. - A Link to the Past (talk) 09:29, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * I've been going through the changes made, and so far I haven't seen anything I didn't like. Except for the , which on my resolution looked hideous, as it did really strange things with where the text of the article was located around the first image and how headings were placed and such.  With such a large TOC, I can understand wanting to get rid of the massive amount of whitespace to the right of the TOC, but I don't think it was appropriate, and I removed the template.  If we could garauntee things like screen resolution and layout for every viewer, I wouldn't have minded a TOC aligned like that, but this isn't a print document.  However, since this isn't a print document, there's no need to conserve paper, and the large amount of whitespace shouldn't be a significant problem. Fieari 19:48, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * Resolution! I knew I forgot something. ^.^; I remembered to check it with the ToC turned off, but not at other resolutions/aspect ratios. What a shame, it worked out pretty well at 1200x800. I'm thinking a custom ToC might be in order - though that obviously has the disadvantage of not auto-updating with page changes. I'll mess around with it later. -- WikidSmaht 17:39, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

 * Is it just me, or do the headings look too big? Setokaiba 12:11, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * No, I agree, some of the headings were a little large. I've shrunk them. Fieari 18:13, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

Kafei
Now that we've had this nice overhaul, I'm removing Kafei from the allies section. All the other companions listed are major parts of their respective games, while Kafei is basically a side quest (albeit a cool and emotional one) that isn't even required to beat the game, and it's so difficult to get to the section that involves you directly having him as an ally that I know of many gamers who've never gotten that far. If you want to put him back, please explain why you think he's relevant enough to the section. Note that he's still mentioned in the article: The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask characters Fieari 20:14, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * I was thinking about that during the rewrite. The one thing is, he's the only other playable character in the whole series who isn't carrying/inhabited by Link. But he certainly isn't worth his own article. Perhaps that could be added to his description in the MM characters article, and a little blurb with a link reinserted here? -- WikidSmaht 17:39, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

Concrete connections?
Aren't some of the connections between the Links official and obvious enough that we can say "This Link is the same Link from this other game" rather than "This Link is generally considered..."? I speak particularly of aLttP/LA Link and LoZ/AoL Link. Also, isn't there strong evidence that Oracles Link is the same as aLttP Link?
 * To be blunt—no. LoZ/AoL, I could give you. But there's not enough linking ALttP to LA in the games or manuals. The NP Player's Guide does say so, but while respected, it's not considered canon by everyone. And I don't see any evidence at all suggesting that Oracle Link is the same one. He'd more likely be Link from Majora's Mask, after growing for a few more years, or a new Link altogether. The Oracle series is notoriously difficult to place. -- WikidSmaht 17:39, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * The Oracles DO give him the Triforce symbol on his left hand, and TWW heavily implies that OoT Link ceased to be the Hero of Time because he left Hyrule for his own wants, so OoS/A couldn't have been the same Link as OoT. The fact of the matter is that at the end of OoS/A, Link departs on a raft similar to the one in Link's Awakening, and LttP (or LA's) manuals say that Link, after defeating Ganon (which indicates that it could only be after LoZ, TWW, OoT, OoS/A or LttP), he set out on to improve his skills. If it's in LttP, it's undeniable. If it's in LA, it's still most likely LttP.
 * OoT - No time inbetween three months to go on a trip.
 * TWW - Goes out on a quest to find a new land, not in enlightenment.
 * LoZ - Red hair, for one, and LttP/LA Links have blonde hair.
 * LttP - OoS/A must have occured after LoZ or LttP, and LttP makes more sense.
 * OoS/A - Leaves on a raft after defeating Ganon.

 * And there's the reasoning as to why it's as good as confirmed. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:36, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * While it's almost certain that this is the case (all the logic works together) I think it might qualify as original research, since aside from the above clues, nothing is stated as linking them in interviews, manuals, or game text. I'm fine with saying that it is generally assumed that they are the same Link though.  Fieari 04:25, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry, what? I take issue with some of that, and overall I don't understand your reasoning. Actually, I don't even understand what point it is you're trying to prove. I'm just going to list off objections and things you need to clarify:
 * The Oracles DO give him the Triforce symbol on his left hand
 * What does the Triforce on his hand have to do with anything? Several Links have that. It's even considered to be a symbol of the legendary Hero.
 * TWW heavily implies that OoT Link ceased to be the Hero of Time because he left Hyrule for his own wants, so OoS/A couldn't have been the same Link as OoT.
 * I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here. I think we're all agreed that the Oracle quests are not the time at which Hyrule was flooded.
 * The fact of the matter is that at the end of OoS/A, Link departs on a raft similar to the one in Link's Awakening
 * What raft? The only raft I remember in LA is the one in the rapids ride. Actually, looking at pictures, you seem to be right in that Link does end the Oracle games by setting sail in a boat which looks similar to the one seen at the beginning of LA. The boat isn't a raft though, it definitely has a hull in both cases.
 * LttP (or LA's) manuals say that Link, after defeating Ganon (which indicates that it could only be after LoZ, TWW, OoT, OoS/A or LttP), he set out on to improve his skills.
 * That would be the LA manual.( Why would the ALttP manual mention something that happens at the end of the game? :-p) It says that after Link defeated Ganon, the people were glad the threat was gone, but worried another threat could arise, so he set out on his journey. Which means it must be after one of those games( or FSA) or an adventure we haven't heard about yet (Hereafter, Game X).
 * If it's in LttP, it's undeniable. If it's in LA, it's still most likely LttP.
 * Sorry, what is "it" in these sentences? This is the part that really confused me.
 * OoT - No time inbetween three months to go on a trip.
 * Three months? What's that mean? I think I'm forgetting something.
 * TWW - Goes out on a quest to find a new land, not in enlightenment.
 * Plus, Link was returning to Hyrule at the beginning of LA. And Marin is said to look like Zelda, but she certainly looks nothing like Tetra.
 * LoZ - Red hair, for one, and LttP/LA Links have blonde hair.
 * Um, what? LoZ Link had brown hair. ALttP Link actually has pink hair, in the game. LA(DX) Link does have reddish blond hair.
 * LttP - OoS/A must have occured after LoZ or LttP, and LttP makes more sense.
 * Sorry, why must the Oracle games ocur after LoZ or ALttP? Because the Triforce was whole, and in the Palace? That would actually place it after ALttP or AoL, or Game X. This is why I said earlier that these games are tricky to place.
 * OoS/A - Leaves on a raft after defeating Ganon.
 * As I said, it's not a raft.
 * And there's the reasoning as to why it's as good as confirmed.
 * Why what is? If you set out to confirm that LA follows the Oracle series, I'd have to agree with you. If that's the case, you made very good points.
 * In the course of my research, replaying, rereading, viewing text dumps and game ending pics, I came across a few other things to consider:
 * In OoS and OoA, when you meet Zelda in the second game, she says "You must be Link" and introduces herself. This suggests that they've never met, meaning Oracle Link is probably a new hero, who was drawn to the Triforce by a feeling or a telepathic message or something. He may not even be from Hyrule, as the other characters have to explain to him the significane of the Triforce mark on his hand.
 * As mentioned before, the Oracle games must start at a time in Hyrule's history when the Triforce is united under control of the royal family at the palace. This would probably mean: A) A few generations after ALttP or Game X, B) just before the sleeping curse was placed on AoL's ancient Zelda( which may be the same as A), C) after AoL, assuming that Link either became King or left the Triforce of Courage in Zelda's care with the other two, D) possibly a few generations after Majora's Mask—we know that there were two endings to OoT, the question is the state of the Triforce at the Child Ending, or E) an as-yet-unknown period.
 * Oracle Zelda is one Marin could be considered to resemble. To be fair, so are ALttP and LoZ's Zeldas, but not as closely.
 * Link's hair color and style are very similar in all the GB/C games.
 * As A Link to the Past said, Link sets sail after the Oracle games.
 * So, I don't know if this is what A Link to the Past was trying to say, but the evidence actually points to the Oracle games as sort of prequels to LA, and neither having a direct connection to ALttP or any other games. Accordingly, I recommend that the statement "Strong evidence supports the idea that this Link is the same Link from A Link to the Past." be removed from the article. I'm going to go ahead and delete it, but I'll be happy to put it back if someone can clearly cite the evidence to support it. The question is what note, if any, to leave in its place. Some options:
 * Nothing.
 * "Strong evidence supports the idea that this Link is Link from the Oracle series."
 * Put back "This Link is generally considered to be Link from A Link to the Past."
 * Nothing, but under the Oracle series, "Strong evidence supports the idea that these events immediately precede Link's Awakening."
 * All valid choices, in my opinion. The "strong evidence" lines are backed up by the facts I cited above, whereas popular opinion( and, most likely, the original intent of the game-makers) place it after ALttP. I thought so myself until reading A Link to the Past's comments above. Leaving no continuity note might also be appropriate if we can't agree on any of those statements as acceptable. -- WikidSmaht 07:39, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

Template
Deos anyone else think the use of the template is horribly ugly, or is it just me? -- WikidSmaht 23:20, August 28, 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't have a problem with that template, no. Fieari 16:51, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * OK then... I'm actually starting to get used to it, guess it was just a shock. -- WikidSmaht 07:39, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

Companions and allies
I suggest we get rid of that section, as all of these characters may be addressed in the plot. - A Link to the Past (talk) 02:18, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

 * The only mini write up I have any kind of attachment to is the Zelda one, due to the potential romantic interest thingy, but I could be convinced otherwise. Fieari 04:29, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * To be completely honest, the "companions and allies" section was my attempt at making the article look longer before I submitted it to FAC (back when no one but myself cared about this article). I think the section has grown somewhat too big and should be trimmed a bit; on the other hand, some of the information there doesn't belong in plot summaries. Medli, Zelda, etc... are part of the plot alright, but Epona, fairies, and Link's family deserve mention, although they are not entirely relevant to the actual plot of the different games. Phil s 10:47, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * This is an article about Link, so while I'll grudgingly( being inclusionist) agree that they weren't all appropriate here, some of these relationships give us insight into Link's background, character and actions. -- WikidSmaht 07:39, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed most of this section, leaving his family, Zelda, fairies, and Epona. Fieari 19:33, September 2, 2005 (UTC)


text: Talk:Thom Hartmann

title: Talk:Thom Hartmann