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Talk:Stephen John Sutton

Untitled
Please be patient with me. This is my first Wikipedia entry. I have read the FAQ and am trying to comply with the guidelines for entries. I am open to all suggestions and edits to make this page of Wikipedia calibre. Thank you, --Diana Elgar 08:02, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks to all the Wikipedians who have helped to 'Wikify' this entry. I am paying close attention to the correct formatting for Wikipedia so I can do them myself in the future. --Diana Elgar 00:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I have noted that more sources of information would be desirable for this entry. Unfortunately, getting information about Stephen and thus news coverage about him and his case is very difficult. The Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) are responsible for providing consular assistance to Australians in legal trouble overseas. Absent the family's financial ability to go to Argentina to visit him themselves, DFAT would normally be the main source of information in a case like Stephen's.

DFAT have provided very little information to Stephen's family in Australia. DFAT have also not provided adequate medical care to Stephen despite the family's knowledge that he has medical problems that require ongoing treatment. It is also very difficult to find English speaking persons in Argentina to visit Stephen. A volunteer who must travel 3 hours by bus to get to the prison has managed to visit him once. DFAT have been slow in providing the permissions necessary for anyone to visit Stephen.

This all stands in very stark contrast to the generous assistance provided by DFAT to Schapelle Corby. Corby has in fact had a DFAT provided physician on standby to visit Ms Corby on her request and has also provided significant financial legal aid to her. I won't speculate on the reasons for the differences in treatment, but Sutton clearly has needs that DFAT could meet and have met for other Australians imprisoned overseas.

The main source of information about Sutton is his sister, Ann Cluse. Ann has gone to no small amount of trouble to put up a website and has been threatened with legal action by DFAT for her publication of what she has been told by them. If there were wider press coverage of this matter, I would happily reference it, but DFAT are releasing very little and it's hard to get in touch with Stephen directly. It is hoped that this Wikipedia entry and Ann's website will generate the sort of interest necessary to get some news coverage. thanks, --Diana Elgar 01:32, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

There has been a concerted effort on the part of some people to get material about Stephen Sutton deleted from Wikipedia. The reason for this appears to be due to a dispute between Sutton's sister, Ann Cluse, a prisoner advocate named Kate Gibbons who works on Ann & Stephen's behalf, and a prisoner advocacy oorganisation from Brisbane, Australia called Foreign Prisoner Support Service (FPSS).

FPSS is operated by Tony Fox. Kay Danes is his associate. Cluse had at one time engaged the assistance of FPSS in an attempt to help Stephen while he is in prison in Argentina but discovered that FPSS had engaged in unacceptable behaviours and sought to separate herself from them. Cluse only engaged FPSS to have Stephen's case mentioned on the FPSS website. Cluse has since set up her own website for Stephen at http://stephensutton.com. Kate Gibbons was working as a volunteer for FPSS and separated herself from them for the same reasons as Ann. The only thing Cluse and Gibbons want from FPSS, Fox and Danes is to be left alone by them- and that includes the Wikipedia entry about Stephen.

You will find extensive personal attacks on Kate Gibbons in particular in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Australians_in_international_prisons page. Many of these personal attacks come from a person who identifies as "Robert Frost from OSE Prisoners Dispute Services U.K." "Robert Frost" claims to be in the UK, but is posting from IP address 144.131.198.139 (see http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=144.131.198.139). This IP is in a block assigned to Telstra in Brisbane, Australia, which also happens to be the location of FPSS. You will find that "Frost" has repeatedly spammed links for FPSS in the aforementioned entry as a harassment of Cluse and Gibbons. See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Australians_in_international_prisons&diff=24934445&oldid=24227584 for a rather grievous offence.

Cluse and Gibbons only want to help Stephen, not deal with harassment and abuse. The vandalism of Wikipedia entries and interference with the real purpose of Wikipedia by falsely motivated requests for deletion of this article is an intolerable abuse of Wikipedia and its fine users, some of whom have been sucked in to this dispute without knowing all the issues behind it. Now they know.

Now, can we please set about the business of helping Stephen live more comfortably until we can get him home? That's why I'm here. --Diana Elgar 03:50, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

AFD debate link
IN RESPONCE – the above post in the public arena on Wikpedia is suspicious in that instead of assisting & promoting Mr Suttons case, it seeks to slander the Foreign Prisoner Support Services (herein known as FPSS), Mr Fox, Mrs Danes, the FPSS Advocates and Members. Diana makes unfounded & ill-informed allegations and promotes only one side of the story without bothering to fact check her information or verify it’s content.

The FPSS has been in operation since 1995 and has assisted many hundreds of prisoners, their families and friends from all over the world. It is a self-funded group that operates with a core group of advocates and several thousands of volunteers & members around the world.

This information, and the information that follows is well documented in the public domain and has been the subject of formal legal submissions.

Ms Cluse approached the FPSS to promote the cause of her brother Stephen Sutton. In good faith the FPSS spend much time & effort promoting the case of Mr Sutton on his sisters behalf. I have been provided with date stamped email dialogues of the supposed 'conflict' which Diana mentioned above that allegedly occurred between a member of the FPSS, and Ms Cluse. The supposed 'unacceptable behaviour' which the FPSS was alleged to have undertaken was a suggestion by one of the FPSS advocates, in a private email conversation with Ms Cluse and another volunteer that the family should determine what level of compensation would be payable to authorities in order to effect the release of Mr. Sutton from custody. This comment was suggested as one of many dozens of options being discussed, and was well founded in such environments. This suggestion was at no time inappropriate and was certainly not suggested as a primary course of action nor as a bribe which is a federal offence in any country. Ms Cluse for some unknown reason took offence at this suggestion and a request was made to the FPSS to discontinue its support of Mr Sutton.

Around this time the FPSS received information directly from Mr Sutton that he did not wish his sister, nor anyone else to speak for him, as per his direct instructions the FPSS removed his case information from it's site. The FPSS has indicated that this is not an uncommon situation and can cite several situations where inmates have found their cases being promoted by well meaning, but ill informed family members, only to ultimately make their situation more complex and difficult. Indeed in some cases the actions of family members has seen prisoners severely punished for the information which has been published in the press.

Around the time of Mr Suttons case being featured on the FPSS website the FPSS were approached by one Kate Gibbons. Many people offer their assistance to the FPSS and as such the FPSS welcomed Ms Gibbons assistance. It however quickly became apparent that Ms Gibbon’s motives were not so well meaning. It was discovered that Ms Gibbons was representing herself as the FPSS in communications with officials without any formal permission from the FPSS or its Advocates. Ms Gibbons was asked to cease her emailing people falsely representing herself as working for, and speaking for the FPSS. Ms Gibbons was never a member of the FPSS, nor was she accepted as an Advocate at any stage. In conversations with the FPSS it has become apparent that Ms Gibbons had ulterior motives for aligning herself with such an organization. Ms Gibbons very quickly became very hostile and the FPSS formally notified her of its wish to have no further contact with her whatsoever.

Much to the surprise of its advocates Ms Gibbons then launched a concerted attack upon the FPSS and its members. I have personally seen legal documentation showing that Ms Gibbons send hundreds of emails to government officials, media outlets, indeed anyone who would listen. The content of these emails were mundane in the extreme and had nothing whatsoever to do with anything other than Ms Gibbons wish to see the FPSS and its Advocates discredited, and the organization shut down. There was no evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of the FPSS, or its Advocates, no actions taken by them that harmed anyone or affected anyone’s case in a negative manner. Most all of the recipients had worked with the FPSS, had known of their service, had interviewed their advocates and could vouch for their integrity and the good work that they have done for many years. Copies of these posts by Ms Gibbons were forwarded onto the FPSS and were recorded for use by their lawyers. The FPSS instructed their legal team to contact Ms Gibbons to ask her to cease and desist with any further attempts to discredit the FPSS or its Advocates. Unfortunately Ms Gibbons continued to harass, bully and intimidate the FPSS Advocates until she was finally threatened with immediate court action. Mr Fox from the FPSS has reported to me that the FPSS made the legal request to Ms Gibbons only after several emails by himself seeking to console Ms Gibbons and ascertain what her grievances were. The irrational and mundane nature of Ms Gibbon’s attacks, time constraints and the massive workload of the Advocates of the FPSS prohibited Mr Fox from spending much more time on the matter. "Never before have we ever seen anything like it" Mr Fox related to me, "we simply could not understand what she wanted, what she thought we had done wrong, or indeed what we could do to placate her, it was simply an irrational act of unfounded personal hostility and finally we had to simply leave it to our legal people to sort out".

Ms Gibbons ulterior motives in seeking to infiltrate the FPSS became clear when she set up a website of her own and misappropriated much of the FPSS content which was copyrighted. This website operated for a period of months before it became stagnant and was not updated again. To this day the website remains a static entity and correspondences with the FPSS by people contacted by Ms Gibbons have indicated that Ms Gibbons was personally able to do little to assist them in their cases. One of the reasons Ms Gibbons was unable to assist a family member of a prisoner which was reported to the FPSS indicated that Ms Gibbons had not only sought to attack the FPSS but had been threatened with legal action by the Australian Government for defamation against its representatives, and as such had no cooperation or assistance by DFAT. Unfortunately through her agents and associates her attack on the good name of the FPSS and its Advocates continues to this day. No factual information has ever been provided regarding any 'unacceptable behaviour' by the FPSS, or its Advocates, but yet the echoes continue to resound in the public arena.

References are also made to other persons, namely Robert Frost from OSE Prisoners Dispute Services U.K. and Diana attempts to make a tentative connection between Mr Frost and the FPSS based on the fact that Mr Frost uses a Telstra account, and that the FPSS is based in Brisbane Australia. This connection is tentative at best and does not stand up to the scrutiny of anyone with even a basic knowledge of the internet. To attempt to forge a connection between the FPSS and any person solely based on the many thousands of Telstra internet users in Queensland is senseless and can only be construed as a further attempt to connect the FPSS with some conspiracy or misappropriate behaviour. I suggest that Diana Elgar seek legal advice on making such unfounded allegations prior to publishing any further material in the public domain regarding the FPSS or its members.

The FPSS continues to this day to assist prisoners, their families and friends in campaigning for their freedom, appeals, amnesties, prisoner treaties, human rights and better conditions. Through the goodwill of its core group of Advocates many prisoners are provided with much needed medical assistance, and their family members are provided with assistance to attend court cases in countries far from home. The FPSS works with many similar such organizations around the world and fosters a spirit of cooperative collaboration. Although sometimes at odds with policies and the expedient assistance of persons in trouble with the law in foreign countries the FPSS has fostered much needed working relationships with Governments and their representatives in many countries around the world and a mutual respect has grown amongst these people engaged in the fight for human rights of prisoners. The many years of it's operation, and the testimonials of the many people the FPSS has assisted speaks for itself.

In protecting the integrity and good name of the FPSS, as with other such organizations that the FPSS has worked with, it at times must speak up to 'put the record straight', and unfortunately even take the matter to the courts. The FPSS has a dispute resolution policy and does not wish to waste time & resources fighting defamation cases through the courts, however it will not hesitate to do so if unfounded allegations are made about it in the public arena.

Dr Peter Williams Legal Advisor & Lecturer

This article has been kept following this AFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!)  08:58, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 04:35, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Stephen John Sutton


text:
Barrier Treaty

The Barrier Treaties (Barrièretraktaat/Barrièreverdrag; traités de la Barrière) were a series of agreements signed and ratified between 1709 and 1715 that created a buffer zone between the Dutch Republic and France by allowing the Dutch to occupy a number of fortresses in the Southern Netherlands, ruled by the Spanish or the Austrians. The treaties were cancelled by Austria in 1781.

Background
From 1672 to 1697, a series of wars with France demonstrated the Dutch Republic's vulnerability to invasion via the Spanish Netherlands, which led to debate on how to design fortifications effective in the flat terrain of the Netherlands and where to locate them. That resulted in the concept of forward defence or so-called Barrier Fortresses in the Spanish Netherlands to provide strategic depth.

It was accepted that no fortified place could hold out indefinitely. The Republic was nearly overrun in 1673 by the speed that the French captured major fortresses like Maastricht, and it was saved only by flooding. The Barrier was intended to slow down an attacking army to allow the Dutch time to reinforce their defences without the expense of a large standing army.

After the 1697 Treaty of Ryswick, the governor of the Spanish Netherlands, Maximilian of Bavaria, permitted the Dutch to garrison eight cities, including Namur and Mons. But in February 1701, the French quickly occupied them. Re-establishing the Barrier was the primary Dutch objective during the War of the Spanish Succession and was specified in Article 5 of the Treaty of The Hague (1701), which reformed the Grand Alliance. The Barrier also had an economic element, since the 1648 Peace of Münster gave the Dutch a monopoly over the Scheldt and made its extent a matter of debate, particularly with Britain. The Scheldt estuary was a key transportation point for European import and export. Its control was a valuable commercial asset and allowed the merchants of Amsterdam to undermine the trade of the commercial rival, Antwerp, severely.

First Treaty (1709)
The first Treaty was signed on 29 October 1709 between Great Britain and the States-General and was primarily driven by the need to keep the Dutch in the War of the Spanish Succession. In return for Dutch support of the Protestant succession and a commitment to continuing the war, Britain agreed to the Barrier, which effectively gave the Dutch permanent control of the Spanish Netherlands. It included Nieuwpoort, Ypres, Menen, Lille, Tournai, Valenciennes, Maubeuge, Charleroi, and Namur. The terms were seen as overly generous by British commercial interests since they included ports in Northern Flanders like Dendermonde and Ghent, which controlled trade along the Scheldt, rather than blocking potential invasion routes.

Second Treaty (1713)
The 1710 British general election replaced the existing Whig government with a Tory administration that derived much of its support from the powerful City of London, a merchants' guild. There were demands for the greater protection of British commercial access and the removal of Ostend and Dendermonde from the list. A revised version was signed on 29 January 1713, which reduced the number of Barrier fortresses to 15; Britain agreed to ensure compliance from the future ruler of the Spanish Netherlands.

Third Treaty (1715)
The third and final treaty confirmed terms contained in the 1714 Treaty of Rastatt between Austria and France by establishing a permanent Austro-Dutch military force of 30,000 to 35,000 men stationed in the Austrian Netherlands. The Dutch would pay 40% of the costs and Austria the other 60% and an additional lump sum to maintain the Barrier and its garrisons, which were reduced to seven, with a mixed garrison at Dendermond. The treaty also renewed the 1648 Peace of Münster over the Scheldt but promised 'equal treatment" for Dutch and British commerce. The treaty was signed on 15 November 1715 and further detailed by two Austrian-Dutch agreements of 30 and 31 January 1716.

Aftermath
The Dutch Republic ended the war in 1713 effectively bankrupt, but the Dutch goal had been achieved. The Barrier was to provide a basis for peace in Europe by perpetuating the balance of power, and was to forge a foundation for the alliance between Austria, Great Britain and the Dutch Republic. Its central role enabled the Dutch Republic to participate in European power politics after 1713. Although judged favourably by contemporaries, it has later been argued by historians that the protection the Barrier offered proved illusory. The Austrians were reluctant to pay for fortresses they did not control, and the fortresses were conquered by France during the War of the Austrian Succession. However, not all modern historians consider the barrier ineffective. Historians like Wijn and Van Nimwegen emphasise that it took 3 years of campaigning for the French to conquer all barrier fortresses during the War of Austrian Succession and that the purpose of the barrier was to give the Dutch enough time to mobilize and fortify their own borders. According to them, nobody in the Dutch Republic was under the illusion that the barrier would itself stop French armies.

However, the forts themselves were only part of the Dutch defence system; political and diplomatic treaties were more important, particularly since Britain could not allow a hostile power to control ports in Northern Flanders like Ostend. Britain's agreement to act as guarantor of the treaty and to provide the Dutch with military support against any aggressor ultimately proved to be far more effective than the Barrier itself.

After Austria allied with France in 1756, the French threat to the Austrian Netherlands vanished and the Barrier became irrelevant. In 1781 the treaty was declared void by Emperor Joseph II. During the French Revolutionary Wars, French forces invaded and overran the Dutch Republic and established the Batavian Republic. The Netherlands remained directly or indirectly under French control for nearly two decades.

After Napoleon I's defeat in 1815, the Netherlands united with the former Austrian Netherlands and Prince-Bishopric of Liège to become the United Kingdom of the Netherlands. A stronger and more complex Barrier was constructed along the new Netherlands/France border, supervised by the Duke of Wellington, a program that was largely complete by 1820, but the fortresses became part of Belgium after its independence in 1830.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Barrier Treaty


text:
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sinclair Research Ltd

Sinclair Research Ltd
self-nomination, I worked a lot on this article, it's very detailed and includes lots of pictures, and has a good lead paragraph (might need expanding though). It went through peer review and got some good comments. Includes references, further reading, external links and see also section. — Wackymacs 08:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * This is a good article, but it just not sufficiently comprehensive and detailed, therefore object. Also the only reference is from 1985 - I should like to know where the post-1985 stuff comes from.  Basically everything Sinclair did after 1983 was a failure (and in some cases was very dodgy), there are underlying reasons for this that need mentioning.  (Sinclair got lucky with a good design team for the Spectrum and then thought he was the one responsible for its success).  The failure of QL is attributed here due to "it's strong competition", and not the nearly total loss of confidence in Sinclair after his actions "launching" it before they even had a prototype.

There's an online exposé of the downfall of Sinclair that I'll try to find. Morwen - Talk

 * *Most of the post 1985 information is from the 'Planet Sinclair' website (linked in the external links section), a very informative website all about Sinclair himself, and all the products the company ever made. I'll see how I can improve it, if you can help it'd be very useful in getting this closer to FA status. — Wackymacs 15:37, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Object.
 * The images Image:Tv1a.jpg, Image:Sinclairblackwatch.jpg, Image:SinclairStereo25.jpg, Image:SinclairC5.jpg are claimed as "fair use", but it should be possible to create or find free-use replacements, so there's no reason to use "fair use" images here.
 * The image Image:SinclairC5.jpg is tagged as being under the Creative Commons Attribution license, but does not indicate the creator. This needs to be fixed, or the image needs to be deleted.
 * --Carnildo 19:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Image sources have been added to all the images you mentioned, and the SinclairC5.jpg image was tagged wrong, it has been replaced with the promotional tag. — Wackymacs 20:20, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Object, good work but some improvements could still be made. The lead should be longer and more than one section. There should be more descriptive section headings for the history section than simply date ranges. The long and thin financial data column needs to be better placed. I would suggest having it as a side bar to the history section. See for instance how I did this with a long thin table at voter turnout. The article also seems lacking in some areas. It needs to be more on the company today, how many employees, what it is working on etc. The article is too focused on the company's products with very little on corporate structure, leading figures, or facilities. Specific figures, such as most of the financial figures, should be sourced with footnotes. The table especially needs a source. - SimonP 01:13, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion of putting the finance table as a sidebar to the history section, this has now been done. — Wackymacs 15:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Object—Lots of prose problems. Just a FEW examples at the top:
 * 'founded Sinclair Radionics, a company developing hi-fi products'—so the company was already developing these products WHEN it was founded?
 * Is a calculator a hi-fi product?
 * 'In 1965 the "Micro-FM" debuted as "the world"s first pocket-size FM tuner-receiver", but was poorly acclaimed due to technical difficulties, though in the far-east illegal clones of the product were being produced'—many problems:
 * why 'but'? Are you contradicting the first clause in some way?
 * better to insert 'it' after 'but'
 * punctuation needs a thorough audit for clarity and ease of reading
 * 'though' (better 'although') comes after 'but', and I can't see why it's yet another contradiction of what precedes it—you need to spell out why 'poorly acclaimed' (better 'reviewed'?) somehow makes the illegal cloning surprising. Or break up the sentence to avoid these false contrasts.

How did this ever find its way straight into the FAC list? Withdraw, rewrite, possibly resubmit. Tony 05:49, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Object - A company information box should be added to the article. Cedars 09:25, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * A company information box has been added, and I'm working on the prose problems and other grammar issues. I'm also trying to add more info about the company itself, and will look into moving the financial data table to the side of the article rather than in it's own section. Some more references are going to be added too.— Wackymacs 19:07, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Good work. Though the company type field is very important and still not filled in yet. The revenue field should also be filled in but because the success of this company was largely in past years you may want to use historical data. "N/A" could also be used if you so desired. Cedars 01:11, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I put N/A in the company type entry, because it is almost impossible to find out if they are LTD, PLC or sole trader. For the revenue entry I added the data for 1984, Sinclair's best financial year, with a revenue of £77.69 million. I think the company infobox is now done. — Wackymacs 17:20, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Solution bound

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. – ABCD✉ 03:42, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Solution bound
Blatant ad. Delete with haste. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 07:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. Spam.   Dl yo ns 493   Ta lk   20:18, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete advert/nn. MCB 23:36, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete as above. --Daedalus-Prime 23:47, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Spam--Rogerd 01:27, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete spam. —Cryptic (talk) 08:30, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
User talk:Slashme

New Page Patrol newsletter October 2022
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Pro tip: Did you know that visual artists such as painters have their own SNG? The most common part of this "creative professionals" criteria that applies to artists is WP:ARTIST 4b (solo exhibition, not group exhibition, at a major museum) or 4d (being represented within the permanent collections of two museums).

Reminders
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Audio belonging to UK or ZA
Hello, David: I have found this audio made by you: En-uk-analyses.ogg and you described it as "UK English pronunciation". However, you are South African. Did you pronounce it with a british accent? Greetings Adelpine (talk) 14:57, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

title: User talk:Slashme


text:
User:Cheese202

Cheese202 started out Cheese101 the infamous editor of Wikipedia, who changed everything from the Abraham Maslow page to the history of England. Unfortunately the jive turkey administrators blocked us and halted the creative genius that we held...Bellends. But now we're back and better than ever. Cheese202 is a collective unit of fine young gentlemen who wish to make the internet a better place. Peace.

title: User:Cheese202


text:
Kamakura-gū

Kamakura-gū (鎌倉宮) is a shrine in Kamakura, Kanagawa Prefecture, Japan. It was erected by Emperor Meiji in 1869 to enshrine the spirit of Prince Morinaga, who was imprisoned and later executed where the shrine now stands in 1335 by order of Ashikaga Tadayoshi. For this reason, the shrine is also known as Ōtōnomiya or Daitōnomiya (大塔宮) from the Prince's full name (Ōtōnomiya Morinaga).

Prince Morinaga was Ashikaga Takauji's most dangerous political rival in Kyoto, so he was arrested with a pretext by him in 1334 and first kept prisoner there, then had him sent to Kamakura. Ashikaga's younger brother Tadayoshi held Morinaga captive for nine months in a small cave at the site of the present Kamakura-gū. When Tadayoshi was forced to retreat from Kamakura after losing a battle to Hōjō Tokiyuki, before leaving he gave the order for Morinaga's execution. The Prince was beheaded on July 23, 1335. The cave still exists today in the rockface behind the shrine, and is a tourist attraction. It is four meters deep and has an area of 12 square meters.

It is one of the Fifteen Shrines of the Kenmu Restoration.

title: Kamakura-gū


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/River Bandits

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 17:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

River Bandits
Topic is non-notable and/or un-verifiable, or a hoax Clay Collier 08:10, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete - The text of this article (the 'Beliefs' section, for instance) smacks of being a joke. Google search returns no reference to any organization called the River Bandits other than a minor-league baseball team.  All links to this article within Wikipedia were created by the initial author of the article. --Clay Collier 08:10, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - as per nom. Qaz  ( talk ) 08:59, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * keep- this is a real organization. I researched it for my senior project in highschool.  The information in the belief secton comes from a pamplet the group distributed circa 2003.  It smacks of a joke, but that is what the society is about: being goofy and, to some extent, relishing in their high IQ. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.253.186.118 (talk • contribs) 2005-10-05 20:33:52 UTC
 * Do not deleteThis group is, surprising, legit. I spent the past weekend in Deland, and came across bills posted throughout Downtown promoting group events.  Many contained silly, nonsensical phrases.  Not every organization has a website...that a google search didn't return any results about the organization isn't sufficent cause to delete the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.213.111 (talk • contribs) 2005-10-05 20:41:10 UTC
 * ... but the facts that the article cites no sources, and that no sources can be found, are. This article is unverifiable.  If you want to change editors' opinions cite sources, as the edit screen asks you to.  Delete. Uncle G 21:31, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete I'm going for hoax. I find it dificult to believe that Hontoon Island has more than 3 people, even during the tourist season, who would meet the IQ requirements for this purported organization. I live on Merritt Island, south of there... any Merritt Island IQ club would have to do something extremely noteworthy (hence at least meriting an entry in Florida Today) to be noteable enough for an entry to Wikipedia. KillerChihuahua 22:42, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete unless verifiable from reliable sources (i.e. not sock puppets). --Daedalus-Prime 23:57, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete i didn't know wikipedia required sources, so, since at the time no one can produce any, delete it. the organization does, however, exist.  Killerchiuaha--1st, the organization is based in hontoon, but open to all residents in volusia county, second, hontoon has well over 500 people, so, well, do the math. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.253.186.118 (talk • contribs) 2005-10-05
 * keep This site is verifiable: the River Bandits are a registered as a not for profit organization in Volusia County. Read up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.253.117.70 (talk • contribs) 2005-10-06
 * Is there somewhere that we can verify the fact that they're listed as a non-profit org? Also, even if the org can be verified, that doesn't really speak to the notability of the organization. --Clay Collier 22:15, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
File:Dark Corner 1946.JPG

Fair use in The Dark Corner
Though this image is subject to copyright, its use is covered by the U.S. fair use laws because:
 * 1) It's a low resolution copy of a Film Poster / VHS or DVD Cover.
 * 2) It doesn't limit the copyright owner's rights to sell the film in any way, in fact, it may encourage sales.
 * 3) Because of the low resolution, copies could not be used to make illegal copies of the artwork/image.
 * 4) The image is itself a subject of discussion in the article or used in the infobox thereof.
 * 5) The image  is significant because it was used to promoted a notable film.

Source

 * 1) Derived from a digital capture (photo/scan) of the Film Poster/ VHS or DVD Cover (creator of this digital version is irrelevant as the copyright in all equivalent images is still held by the same party). Copyright held by the film company or the artist.  Claimed as fair use regardless.

title: File:Dark Corner 1946.JPG


text:
Canada Southern Railway

The Canada Southern Railway, also known as CSR, was a railway in southwestern Ontario, Canada, founded on February 28, 1868 as the Erie and Niagara Extension Railway. Its name was changed to Canada Southern Railway on December 24, 1869. The 1868 Act specified that it was to be constructed at a broad gauge of, but that requirement was repealed in the 1869 Act, thus allowing construction at the standard gauge of.

The railway was leased to the Michigan Central Railroad (MCR) for 99 years in 1883; in 1929 it was subleased to the New York Central Railroad (NYC). Its successors Penn Central (formed 1968) and Conrail (formed 1976) later exercised control before being sold to Canadian National Railway/Canadian Pacific Railway in 1985.

Background
The line was originally conceived by Kenyon Cox (brother of Jacob Dolson Cox, Governor of Ohio), Daniel Drew, Sidney Dillon and John F. Tracy to connect with the Wabash Railroad and establish a railway network extending from Lake Erie to the Mississippi River.

The Panic of 1873 was responsible for the failure of several large railroads in North America, together with their financial backers. In addition to the CSR, the Missouri, Kansas & Texas Railroad, Northern Pacific Railroad, Chesapeake and Ohio Railroad and New York and Oswego Midland Railroad were also affected.

The CSR's banker, Kenyon, Cox & Co. (of which Drew was general partner) failed, and its bonds were subsequently protested, although some observers felt that the move was unnecessary. CSR subsequently became insolvent, as it was unable to redeem the bonds. Within two years, it was taken over by the railroad magnate Cornelius Vanderbilt at essentially no cost other than taking on the guarantee of them.

When Cornelius died in 1877, his son, William Henry Vanderbilt, became head of the Vanderbilt railroad empire. The younger Vanderbilt took steps to separate the various railroad properties he controlled. On 1 January 1883, the New York Central Railroad (NYC) was able to lease the CSR to another Vanderbilt railroad company, the Michigan Central Railroad (MCR), on a 21-year renewable term. Vanderbilt, who owned all three companies, ensured that each one operated independently, through its own autonomous president and board of directors. In 1929, MCR subleased CSR to NYC, its parent company.

Development of the line
The company was originally authorized to construct a railway line between Fort Erie and Sandwich (Windsor), with a branch line to Amherstburg. A second branch line was authorized in 1869 between St. Thomas and Sombra the following year. Other significant subsequent legislation included:

There was an attempt in 1883 to amalgamate the CSR with the Credit Valley Railway, which was dropped when the CVR opted to merge with the Ontario and Quebec Railway instead.

Corporate headquarters
CSR's headquarters were located in St. Thomas, Ontario. The site was chosen because St Thomas was roughly equal-distance between Windsor and Fort Erie, Ontario and the city offered a $25,000 bonus to the railroad company as an incentive to build within city limits. CSR's main building, the Canada Southern Railway Station, included a passenger station and dining room on the ground floor with the railway's head offices on the upper floor. The extremely long, narrow building was based on Italianate architecture and is the only known train station in Canada to embody this style. The station was the design of Canadian architect Edgar Berryman (1839-1905).

Car shops and locomotive manufacturing
A large car shop, located in the yard, facilitated the manufacture of cars and allowed repairs to be made to locomotives. Steam locomotives were also manufactured for CSR in the car shop, beginning in 1882 and closed sometime after 1905. Types of locomotives made included:

 * B-82b Class - Type 0-6-0
 * B-82d Class - Type 0-6-0
 * B-84 Class - Type 0-6-0
 * B-84b Class - Type 0-6-0
 * F-81c Class - Type 4-6-0
 * F-82f Class - Type 4-6-0
 * F-82 Class - Type 4-6-0
 * F-82a Class - Type 4-6-0
 * G-80e Class - Type 2-8-0

Initially all locomotives were built for use by CASO, but some ended their career with the New York Central Railroad.

Later years
The CSR was never completely controlled by the New York Central (later part of Penn Central) or the Michigan Central, as the two together held only about 107,000 of the 150,000 shares outstanding, and the rest were publicly held. The shareholders had received dividends in every year from 1887, and an extraordinary dividend in 1976 triggered a legal dispute that was not resolved until 1983.

On April 30, 1985, the Canadian National Railway and Canadian Pacific Railway jointly purchased the former CASO from Conrail in order to acquire the Michigan Central Railway Tunnel under the Detroit River and the Michigan Central Railway Bridge at Niagara Falls.

Much of the CASO has been downgraded, abandoned or removed by CN and CP over the years. Operations through Niagara Falls (and over the MCRR bridge) were discontinued with that portion of the line through the city removed in 2001. Unlike the rest of the line, however, the Detroit River tunnel is a key part of freight movements across the Canada-US border and still sees a good number of mainline trains. The CASO rarely operated its own rolling stock after acquisition, and its reporting mark was abolished in 1977.

title: Canada Southern Railway


text:
Hypervigilance

Hypervigilance is a condition in which the nervous system is inaccurately filtering sensory information and the individual is in an enhanced state of sensory sensitivity. This appears to be linked to a dysregulated nervous system which can often be caused by traumatic events or PTSD. Normally, the nervous system releases stress signals (e.g. norepinephrine) in certain situations as a defense mechanism to protect one from perceived dangers. In some cases, the nervous system becomes chronically dysregulated, causing a release of stress signals that are inappropriate to the situation, creating inappropriate and exaggerated responses. Hypervigilance may bring about a state of increased anxiety which can cause exhaustion. Other symptoms include: a high responsiveness to stimuli, and a constant scanning of the environment.

In hypervigilance, there is a perpetual scanning of the environment to search for sights, sounds, people, behaviors, smells, or anything else that is reminiscent of activity, threat or trauma. The individual is placed on high alert in order to be certain danger is not near. Hypervigilance can lead to a variety of obsessive behavior patterns, as well as producing difficulties with social interaction and relationships.

Hypervigilance is differentiated from dysphoric hyperarousal in that the person remains cogent and aware of their surroundings. In dysphoric hyperarousal, a person with PTSD may lose contact with reality and re-experience the traumatic event verbatim. Where there have been multiple traumas, a person may become hypervigilant and suffer severe anxiety attacks intense enough to induce a delusional state where the effects of related traumas overlap. This can result in the thousand-yard stare.

Hypervigilance can be a symptom of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and various types of anxiety disorders. It is distinguished from paranoia. Paranoid diagnoses, such as those that can occur in schizophrenia, can seem superficially similar, but are characteristically different.

Symptoms
People suffering from hypervigilance may become preoccupied with scanning their environment for possible threats. They might overreact to loud and unexpected noises, exhibit an overactive startle response or become agitated in highly crowded or noisy environments. They will often have a difficult time getting to sleep or staying asleep. Sustained states of hypervigilance, lasting for a decade or more, may lead to higher sensitivity to disturbances in their local environment, and an inability to tolerate large gatherings or groups. After resolution of the situation demanding their attention, people exhibiting hypervigilance may be exhausted and require time before returning to normal activities.

title: Hypervigilance


text: User talk:145.103.248.65

title: User talk:145.103.248.65


text:
Talk:Network-attached storage

Changes II
I think that this section has been edited incorrectly. Note the last passage:

''Security when connected to Internet

NAS drives are generally safe to place on a network if connected to the internet, however there are some security concerns that need to be addressed by administrators. Some NAS drives (like the LANdrive for example) are based on a Linux operating system and are open source. There are a numerous firmware upgrades on the internet produced by various sources and NAS drive users are often tempted to No it is not. ''

--Thomo5000 03:40, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Changes
I think the following content needs more elaboration:

''NAS was developed to address problems with direct attached storage, which included the effort required to administer and maintain "server farms", and the lack of scalability, reliability, availability, and performance. They can deliver significant ease of use, provide heterogeneous data sharing and enable organizations to automate and simplify their data management. '' Sltan 08:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

A NAS is not an appliance. A NAS Server may in fact be an appliance but NAS is storage technology. The differentiation between NAS and SAN is that a SAN is block level storage and a NAS is a filesystem. [See my drawing] I think this article should focus on the technology and not applications of the technology.

mennis 14 August, 2007

NAS versus NDAS
The table in List of External NAS Devices under $1000 mentions NDAS. Googling reveals the "D" is for "Direct", and that NDAS is apparently patented technology of Ximeta Inc. But what's the difference? (I've also been informed by Freecom that their Network MediaPlayer-35 is a NDAS rather than a NAS device and I'd rather like to have an independent view of what this might mean in the real world). Ralphbk 06:54, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

SAN - LAN comparisons/differences
Hi

SAN is often emphasized as LAN-Free in technical literature. Can there please be a small note on how a SAN is different from a LAN ? would be especially relavant for those who are already on LAN but have systems using SAN. Tends to get confusing at times.

Thanks

NAS under $1000 listing
I think getting rid of the listing of small NAS devices under $1000 was a disservice. Most people know NAS as embedded devices that they can go to the local store and buy with either a hard drive attached or one that accepts an installed hard drive. Looking at the current listing you would not even know such devices exist! It was removed secondary to "not being encyclopedic" this is what the page looked like before --Raumka 02:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The list had no relavince, and would be obsolete the moment it would be posted as some companies discontinue devices and others introduce news ones almost every day. Going to any store online or otherwise you can often find more then a few NAS devices under $1,000. PPGMD 02:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * But if you are going to list companies that provide enterprise level NAS why not at least list those companies who make for SOHO/consumer applications?(far more relevant to people like me who has only just found out about NAS and would disagree that most people know that these exist--172.203.167.135 15:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC))
 * There is a huge difference between a list of vendors that make NAS products and a list of NAS's with their feature set. I would not oppose a list of SOHO NAS Vendors, but if it got too large it would have to be forked out of the article. PPGMD 16:12, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Defense of my removal of all external links - Resolved?
Unbelievably, only three of the links at the bottom of the page were to projects or companies mentioned in the article: FreeNAS, NASLite and Openfiler. Each of those three now have full Wikipedia articles themselves, so I simply replaced the in-article external links with intrawiki links. I realise it may seem somewhat drastic to remove every single external link from the article but, aside from the above, every single one was more an advertisement than an actual article. That said, it might be advisable to start a seperate list of NAS and SAN vendors if the ad cruft starts coming in again. At least then it could be moved out of the article. MrZaius talk  15:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure I understand why you are so keen on cannibalizing this article. Many articles in the wikipedia have a list of manufacturers Router is an example.  This was a very useful and informative article, admittedly a bit sprawling that now is barely even topical, better information can be found even in the Storage area network article.   Raumka 04:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The list was getting to the point where it was nearly as long as the article itself, and was a far from exhaustive list. Also, this article's manufacturer links don't compare well to those in Router, as every single link in those sections of Router were to other wikipedia articles.  To the best of my knowledge, all of the manufacturer links removed that were not duplicated elsewhere in the article were to companies that weren't covered with a wikipedia article.  MrZaius  talk  05:12, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Moot point now! Anonymous editor replaced the list of manufacturers with a list similar to that in Routers.  Looks great.  Dude/Dudette also added a chart (w/invalid https cert?) of NAS capabilities, stored in a wiki.   MrZaius  talk  01:28, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I was that dude, unintended to do it anonymously. The chart was essentially what you removed in the first place.  A bit outdated but quite comprehensive. I hope this works for everyone Raumka 03:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I've just re-removed the External Links section as it was only being used for spamvertising. Unfortunately my change comment was prematurely committed. ("You"). Ralphbk 14:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Quantum SnapServer
Wasn't this one of the first lower priced NAS product lines? The cheapest, smallest capacity, SnapServer was hardly bigger than an external 3.5" hard drive. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 09:11, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

power levels and power efficiency
The article needs a section devoted to power levels and power efficiency. A NAS typically runs 24/7. It is tempting and easy in concept to use a spare old computer as a network file server, and many small organizations do. But such a computer is consuming about 100 watts (even with the monitor turned off), and so costs about $100 in electricity a year! But an operating hard drive only needs about 3 watts, even less if it powers down on idle. So a small embedded-computer NAS should only average about 20 watts at most. So the potential electricity savings make it very important to carefully consider power consumption, and not to just use an old computer because it is available. Another option is to use an old laptop computer, which may only draw 50 watts or less. This is a particularly good use for laptops with defective LCD displays. The defective display may not matter for this application -- or an external display can be used for system administration. -69.87.203.254 21:54, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You can probably compress the above into a clean two-sentence statement at the end of Benefits. Be nice to have a source, though, if you're going to include power consumption statistics.  MrZaius  talk  22:19, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Linux file name problem?
"The unit runs a linux type operating system and uses a filing system not up to par with Windows XP and Mac OS X. Many of my files, both pc and mac format, cannot be copied because of odd characters in the title."  Many NAS are Linux-based. Does this mean that they all have problems storing some Windows files, because of name incompatibilities? Where is there a technical discussion of this potential problem? -69.87.203.254 22:01, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, more characters generally allowed in Linux filesystems than NTFS and are likely identical to Mac OS X. The filename limitations of both are dealt with in the corresponding articles.  It's actually possible that the limitations are limitations of the SMB/NMB protocols/limitations of Samba, which is used in so many SoHo NAS.  Worthy of some investigation.  MrZaius  talk  22:17, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

 * If a Linux filesystem is used to store Windows files, and no special accomodation is made at the interface, there are many potential issues. For example, Linux filenames are case sensitive, and thus allow multiples of the "same" filename, where Windows would use case-insensitive filename matching.  This alone could cause unexpected behavior for Windows users who simply want to store files, and don't want any complications!  And, what about embedded spaces in filenames, common in Windows-world?-69.87.199.70 01:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

 * There's no problem with spaces in filenames in Linux. Pelago 14:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Another linux NAS OS
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=04120 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.222.217.206 (talk) 13:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

Made Additions
added image of a snapserver, added this page to the proper cat, this things are Server appliances. --Akc9000 19:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Appliance
"NAS differs from the traditional file serving and Direct Attached Storage, they are server appliances" Is this an error in syntax? "They" seems to refer not to NAS, but to "traditional" items. Someone kindly restructure the sentence or otherwise clarify the pronoun. Jim.henderson 15:30, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Fixed --Kubanczyk 07:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

NAS Hacking Communities
I think it is essential for most of us who buy a comsumer NAS if alternative Firmwares are possible. Thats why i think the external link that i posted and which was removed again makes sense here. "Hacking" isn`t something bad. It can make the difference between buying it or not. We try to give an overview of existing NAS-hacking-communities to help users. I do not want to draw pagehits to our page in case you think i want to achieve that. List of NAS hacking communities Please comment. --mindbender —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.170.72.37 (talk) 17:20, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It wasn't a political statement, it was policy. See WP:EL and WP:LINKFARM. Might try taking it to dmoz. MrZaius  talk  06:20, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

iSCSI is really NAS?
It is not a form of SAN, like AOE? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vozesdoalem (talk • contribs) 12:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * iSCSI is a block protocol, so it is designed as a base of SAN (alternatively to FC/AOE/similar). It is not a file-level protocol, so it cannot serve as a base of NAS. But many enterprise NAS boxes (e.g. NetApp) provide additional SAN-oriented connectivity. --Kubanczyk (talk) 13:06, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Personal storage
Would something like this be suitable for personal storage? I've seen non-networked terabyte drives being sold at 1 or 2 TB now. NAS have also been sold at these sizes, as well as up to sizes like 4, 8 or 24. Could this be used where the "network" is a single home PC? Dictabeard (talk) 11:43, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Single board computer NAS
Some single board computers like the Raspberry Pi have been used as inexpensive NAS's. See
 * http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/nas/nas-howto/32053-make-your-own-raspberry-pi-nas
 * http://elinux.org/R-Pi_NAS
 * http://www.raspipress.com/2013/05/turn-a-raspberry-pi-into-a-nas-network-attached-storage-server/
 * http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/turn-your-raspberry-pi-into-a-nas-box/
 * https://blog.sleeplessbeastie.eu/2013/12/01/how-to-set-up-raspberry-pi-as-a-tiny-nas-server/

Mention in article. It makes a good NAS, just doesn't have QEMU and all that, but then again, most users wouldn't need or want that anyway. DevineDeity (talk) 12:24, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Update and expansion critical Suggestion
While still informative with regards to the basic nature of NAS, there have been so many advances, increased options and even functional crossovers with other digital media hardware/software (such as the vast array of NAS devices that include all kinds of digital media management, device connectivity, recording and playback options - NAS-DMS hybrids (which include hdmi ports and remote controls) are available in many different configurations), that I feel this article verges on being misleading by not at least outlining the scope of today's NAS. I am not expert enough to take on such a task, but to leave this page as it is is really a disservice to the Wikipedia reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PeacefulPlanet3 (talk • contribs) 21:41, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Network-attached storage. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160816184205/http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/research/pubs/articles/papers/399.pdf to http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/publications/articles/papers/399.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101017224312/http://cdrlab.pl/article_strona_9571_1.html to http://cdrlab.pl/article_strona_9571_1.html

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Misleading?
This article says:

Network-attached storage (NAS) is a file-level (as opposed to block-level storage) computer data storage server ...

while the Block level storage article says: Block-level storage is a concept (... and) a form of network-attached storage (NAS).[2]

Can we make a Venn diagram out of it? Zezen (talk) 07:45, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Network-attached storage