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Talk:Lodi (Pashtun tribe)

Families and Individuals claiming descent from the Lodi
I recently removed the unnecessary mention of the Prithimpassa family in the top of the page as (alleged) descendants of this tribe. Countless individuals and families claim descent from the Lodi tribe due to many branches of the tribe settling throughout the subcontinent in the past. I don't see the reason why one family has to be specifically singled out and that too in the top of the page. It would occupy more than 90% of the page if we were to mention all of these families and individuals who claim such descent. For such information, I have created the Claimed descend from the Lodi tribe page. It's currently in draft. For those interested in such things, please work on it and submit it for review. Once the page is in the main namespace, link to it from here in the 'see also' section.

Untitled
This statement that Lodhis are probably a sub-group of Ghilji is wrong. The Ghilzai(Ghilji/Ghalji) are the kindred tribe of the Lodhis. The Ghilji are descendants of the eldest son, of Shah Hussein of Ghor and Bibi Mato, called Ghilji. The Lodhis are the descendants of the younger son, Ibrahim Loae. The Ghilji represent the western house of Mati and the Lodhi represent the eastern house of Mati. Together, they are called by their metronymic, the Matizai, which is rare in Afghan tribal culture.

Additionally, the Ghilji are not Khilji Turks,or descended therefrom. This is supposition on the part of the author. It derives from the mystery of the Khilji, a people described as allied to the Afghans during the latter's invasion of India and of residing in the area of Ghazni during the time of Sultan Mahmud of Ghazni. Ironically, today the Ghilji reside in that same area but they spread into the area, as they are famously part-time nomads, especially before modern borders were fixed, and used to travel in the winter as far as Calcutta. Also, most tribes of Turkish or 'Turco-Mongol' descent are proud of the fact and would not deny it if it were true e.g the Turi Turco-Mongol tribe of Pakistan's tribal areas, the Karlugh Turks of Hazara division or the Qizilbash Turks of Lahore.

Both the Ghilji and the Lodhi share the tribal heritage of descent from Shah Hussein, a Ghorid prince who left the petty kingdoms of his Ghorid homeland of Ghor and Bamiyan in search of spiritual growth. Thus, they are both descended from House of Ghor. The Ghorids were the rulers of the central massif of Afghanistan for hundreds of years till their destruction during the Mongol advance of Genghis Khan and were deemed to be descended from a ruler of Iran. Neither tribe of Ghilji or Lodhi has facial markers of Turkic/Mongol descent (wide set narrow eyes, flat facial features, brachycephalic heads). Rather, they have a surprising degree of variation in features, from Aryan to Semitic, similar to many Afghan tribes.

Please do not insist on this fable of Turkish descent. It is unsupported by books and by the tribal heritage of the people themselves. At the very least, let us obtain a neutral POV on the matter. --Ahmadzai

I do not know if this is a comments page or not but I am assuming it is. The information for Lodhi needs correcting:

"Lodhi (also sometimes Lodi) is a Pashtun tribe" - it is an Afghan tribe, of the Mati sub-branch (matrilineal) of the Sheikh Beit division (one of 4 major divisions of Afghans. Patrilineal descent is from Shah Hussein of Ghor, a descendant of the Shansabani kings of Ghor (a mountainous region in central Afghanistan).

"...most likely a sub-group of the larger Ghilzai of Afghanistan" - Lodhis are not a sub-group of Ghilji - they are fraternal tribes.

There were 2 sons - the elder was Ghilji from whom a tribal nation of the same name descends, and there was the younger, Ibrahim, surnamed 'Loë' (i.e. great) on account of obtaining the blessings of his grandfather, Sheikh Beit, an Afghan patriarch and sage. Ibrahim Loë's descendants are called Lodhis (i.e. translated literally, 'the great ones').

Certain tribes have grown so big that they no longer keep the tribal name Lodhi, but rather the sub-tribal name i.e. Lohani, Marwat (basically a sub- sub- tribe of Lohani), Suri (Sher Shah's tribe), Dotani, Niazi

"Members of this tribe established the Lodi dynasty, which ruled over the Delhi Sultanate and included the prominent ruler Ibrahim Lodi." - Additionally, a Lodhi from the small sub-tribe called Suri went on to challenge and wrest the throne of India from the Mughals, so that for 25 years, the throne of India was in the hands of Afghans. This man was King Sher Shah Suri.

"The Lodhi family name is common amongst the Pashtuns." - it is not a common name; it is unique to the descendants of Ibrahim Loë.

Lodhiana (district of Indian Punjab) - named after the Lodhis who settled in large numbers in the Punjab and later shifted to Pakistan.

--

I have added more to the second section of the topic.

Mayurkirti

Reverted edits
I have reverted edits made by an IP. The IP added information related to the Lodi/Lodhi Rajputs which is totally irrelevant since the article is about the Pashtun Lodi tribe "Lodi (Pashtun tribe)". (Ketabtoon (talk) 20:40, 1 November 2009 (UTC))

Irrlevant nonsense
"Their origin is unclear. Some Pashtun tribes claim descent from Arabs, including some claiming to be descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad (referred to as Sayyids). Some groups believe to be descended from Ancient Greeks that arrived with Alexander the Great. One conflicting issue in the belief that the Pashtuns descend from the Israelites is that the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel were exiled by the ruler of Assyria, while Maghzan-e-Afghani says they were permitted by the ruler to go east to present western Pakistan and eastern Afghanistan. Pashtun Jews largely relocated to Israel."

I removed this part because it is irrelevant to the origins of the Lodi and seems like someones farfetched POV. Akmal94 (talk) 20:17, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Bettani not ghilzai
I corrected this article which stated lodhis are a subtribe of ghilzai when both are actually subtribe of bettani super tribe Ozgharzai (talk) 06:06, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

It's Tatur, not Tatar.
The Tatur (also known as Tator/Tatoor) tribe among the Lodi was erroneously mentioned as and linked to Tatar, which is a completely separate ethnic group than the Pashtuns. I have corrected it again after my previous correction was reverted back.

To avoid this confusion in the future, I have also created a separate page for the Tatur tribe but it's currently in draft. Historyandshit (talk) 02:52, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lodi (Pashtun tribe)


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User:Davewild/WIP

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Stoke Bardolph

Stoke Bardolph is a village and civil parish in the Gedling district of Nottinghamshire. The population of the civil parish taken at the 2011 census was 170, increasing to 598 residents at the 2021 census. It is to the east of Nottingham, and on the west bank of the River Trent. Nearby places include Burton Joyce and Radcliffe on Trent.

Because it has a small number of electors, the parish is presently governed by a parish meeting, and not a parish council.

Severn Trent Water's Stoke Bardolph Sewage Treatment Works are nearby. Severn Trent own most farmland in the area, using sludge from the sewage treatment works as fertiliser.

The Rivendell housing development began to be built in 2018 in the west of the parish, and the first residents of this moved in from March 2019.

History
There is no substantial evidence of occupation during early periods, but some artifacts have been found. In 1951, a Neolithic stone axehead was found in a field between the sewage treatment works and the river, while a late Bronze Age spearhead was found in the River Trent in 1928 when the channel was being dredged. It was 275 mm long, and is now at the Nottingham Castle Museum. There is some evidence of a Romano-British field system in the area, although this has been identified by aerial photography, and of the ten sites identified, none have been investigated on the ground. There is also evidence of an Iron Age  promontory camp, with a bank and ditch to the east and a bank to the west. Some Roman finds probably indicate that it was occupied during the Roman period.

Before the Norman conquest of Britain, the manor of Gedling was in the kingdom of Mercia, and was held by Thegn Otta and then passed to his son Tochi. Following the conquest, the manor was given to William Peveril, and some land passed to the Bardolph family as a result of marriage during the reign of Henry II. They built a fortified manor house or moated castle near to the ferry crossing to Shelford. Evidence from the street plan of the village and the layout of the adjacent fields shows that it was established during the Medieval period. White's Directory of Nottinghamshire, published in 1853, recorded that an ancient chapel had once existed within the village, but that no trace of it then remained.

The Bardolph family were connected with the area until the late 15th century. "'The Bardolphs, who will ever remain linked by name to the county through the village of Stoke Bardolph on the banks of the silvery Trent—the Bardolphs, who once occupied a prominent place in the front ranks of English nobility, as all readers of Shakespeare's 'Henry IV.' will well remember.'"

"'Joan Bardolph, eldest daughter of Thomas Bardolph, was Lady Bardolph, and had a daughter, Elizabeth, who married John, Viscount Beaumont, by whom she had a son, William, Viscount Beaumont and Lord Bardolph, who was attainted by Parliament 4 November 1 Ed. IV. (1461). His sister, Jane, thus became heir and married John, Lord Lovell; their son, Francis, was killed fighting against the king at the battle of Stoke-field, 16 June 1487.'"

Their moated house near the river was used to hold the Court Baron, which managed disputes related to the feudal system, and the Court Leet, which dealt with local legal matters, until at least 1539. In the port-medieval period, the village was agricultural. Common land was divided up by an enclosure Act obtained in 1798. By 1872, the village had a population of 174, living in 38 houses, and also had a post office, a chapel of ease, and a ferry. It was described as a township within the parish of Gedling.

Sewage farm
By the 1870s, the lower parts of Nottingham were regularly affected by flooding of polluted water from the River Leen, as a consequence of six parishes adjacent to the town discharging raw sewage into the river. Marriott Ogle Tarbotton had become the Borough Engineer for Nottingham in 1859, and the Nottingham and District Sewerage Act 1872 enabled the Nottingham and Leen District Sewerage Board to be created. Tarbotton became the Sewerage Board engineer, in addition to his other duties, and set about building sewers and sewage pumping stations to convey effluent from the city to Stoke Bardolph. The Nottingham Borough Extension Act 1877 (40 & 41 Vict. c. xxxi) enabled the offending parishes to be incorporated into Nottingham, and the borough to take over the responsibilities of the sewerage board.

The corporation leased 638 acre of agricultural land from Earl Manvers at first. A deed from 1878 states that John Elliot Burnside leased the farm, now known as Stoke Farm, to the Mayor, Alderman and Burgesses of the Borough of Nottingham for a period of 60 years, at an annual rent of £135. It was situated immediately to the north of the church building, and was known to have good drainage, allowing the sewage to be spread over the land, where it seeped into the soil. The farm was subsequently purchased. Tarbotton was responsible for the construction of the sewage farm, and the first stage became operational on 17 June 1880. However, he did not see it completed, as he suffered a stroke while attending a meeting of the Sewage Farm Committee on 4 March 1887, and died two days later. Additional land adjacent to the original site was acquired, some of which was in the neighbouring parish of Bulcote. The farm produced milk from cattle kept on the land, and was also a centre for pedigree shire horses and pigs.

Plans for a new sewage treatment works were drawn up in 1928, to be situated further to the west. Work on a combined scheme for main drainage and sewage disposal works began in 1936. New piping was constructed, and a new pumping station at Sneinton was commissioned, to bring additional sewage to the farm. New buildings housed preliminary treatment facilities, before the effluent was spread on the land. During the 1950s, the works were extended to include secondary treatment, by the addition of an activated sludge plant and final settlement tanks. In 1974, responsibility for the plant was transferred from the City of Nottingham to Severn Trent Water Authority, one of ten regional water authorities established under the terms of the Water Act 1973 to manage water resources in England and Wales.

By the early 2010s, the site was the second-largest managed by Severn Trent Water, serving around 500,000 domestic customers, and the equivalent of another 200,000 due to discharges from trade customers. It was also treating waste from a local animal rendering plant, which entered the works separately. The secondary treatment facilities were reaching the end of their working life, and as a result of the Urban Waste Water Treatment Directive, the levels of phosphorus in the final effluent needed to be reduced. A conventional solution would have involved extensive reconstruction of the facilities and the addition of another activated sludge plant, but a more innovative approach was taken, which enabled much of the existing infrastructure to be reused, and the size of the activated sludge plant to be reduced. This was achieved by ammonia and phosphorus removal before the liquor entered the activated sludge plant. Removal of these substances has another beneficial effect, as it significantly reduces blockages in pipes due to the precipitation of struvite, or magnesium ammonium phosphate. The solution adopted produces half a tonne of phosphorus per day, and was £19.2 million cheaper than the cost of a conventional solution. Operational costs are also £165,000 per year lower.

The process of using anaerobic digestion to treat sewage sludge has been used on Severn Trent sites since the 1950s, and Stoke Bardolph works uses a biomethane plant to turn the gas produced by the digestion process into biomethane. This is then supplied to the national gas network. The plant runs continuously, and produces around 500 m3 of biomethane per hour from 1000 m3 of biogas. The gas is washed, compressed and an odour is added to it before it is pumped into the gas network. In 2017, the site was partially self-sufficient, producing some 38 percent of its energy needs in this way, and Severn Trent hope to increase this to 50 percent by 2020.

St Luke's Church
The village Anglican church is dedicated to St Luke. The Domesday Book, produced in 1086, mentions that there was a priest and a church building in the village at that time. The present building is a simple rectangle, 33 ft long and 21 ft wide, with a single bell housed in a turret at the western end. It was built in two stages, with the main section dating from 1844, and an extension to the chancel which was added in 1910.

title: Stoke Bardolph


text: User talk:70.30.114.96

title: User talk:70.30.114.96


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Malay Roy Choudhury

Malay Roy Choudhury (29 October 1939 – 26 October 2023) was an Indian Bengali poet, playwright, short story writer, essayist and novelist who founded the Hungryalist movement in the 1960s.

Early life and education
Malay Roy Choudhury was born in Patna, Bihar, India, into the Sabarna Roy Choudhury clan, which owned the villages that became Kolkata. He grew up in Patna's Imlitala ghetto, which was mainly inhabited by Dalit Hindus and Shia Muslims. His was the only Bengali family. His father, Ranjit Roy Choudhury (1909–1991) was a photographer in Patna; his mother, Amita (1916–1982), was from a progressive family of the 19th-century Bengali Renaissance. His grandfather, Laksmikanta Roy Choudhury, was a photographer in Kolkata who had been trained by Rudyard Kipling's father, the curator of the Lahore Museum.

At the age of three, Roy Choudhury was admitted to a local Catholic school, and later, he was sent to the Rammohan Roy Seminary Oriental Seminary. The school was administered by the Brahmo Samaj movement, a monotheistic religion founded in 1830 in Kolkata by Ram Mohun Roy, who aimed to purify Hinduism and recover the simple worship of the Vedas. There, Roy Choudhury met student-cum-librarian Namita Chakraborty, who introduced him to Sanskrit and Bengali classics. All religious activities were banned at the school, and Roy Choudhury has said that his childhood experience made him instinctively secular.

Hungryalist movement
The Hungryalist movement was initially led by Malay; his brother, Samir Roychoudhury; Shakti Chattopadhyay; and Haradhon Dhara, known by his pseudonym Debi Roy. Thirty more poets and artists subsequently joined them, the best-known being Rajkamal Chaudhary, Binoy Majumdar, Utpal Kumar Basu, Falguni Roy, Subimal Basak, Tridib Mitra, Rabindra Guha, and Anil Karanjai. The movement's English name was derived from Geoffrey Chaucer's line "in the sowre hungry tyme", and its philosophy was based on Oswald Spengler's "The Decline of the West".

Hungryalism petered out in 1965, when the West Bengal government issued arrest warrants for eleven Hungryalists, including Roy Choudhury and his brother. Some members, such as Subhash Ghosh and Saileshwar Ghosh, testified against Roy Choudhury in Kolkata's Bankshall Court. He was jailed for a month for his poem Stark Electric Jesus by Kolkata Bankshall Court in 1966. However he was exonerated by the Kolkata High Court in 1967. From the letters of Sunil Gangopadhyay written to Sandipan Chattopadhyay during 1964 published recently it is known that Sunil Gangopadhyay felt that Hungry generation literary movement was a threat to his Krittibas group of poets of 1950s.

Howard McCord, a professor of English at Washington State University and Bowling Green University who met Roy Choudhury during a visit to Kolkata, wrote in City Lights Journal Number Three: "Malay Roy Choudhury, a Bengali poet, has been a central figure in the Hungry Generation's attack on the Indian cultural establishment since the movement began in the early 1960s. ... Acid, destructive, morbid, nihilistic, outrageous, mad, hallucinatory, shrill—these characterize the terrifying and cleansing visions" that "Indian literature must endure if it is to be vital again."

Both the Bangla Academy and Northwestern University have archives of Roy Choudhury's Hungryalist publications.

Roy Choudhury wrote three drama during the Hungryalism movement: Illot, Napungpung and Hibakusha, considered to be a mash-up of the Theatre of the Absurd and Transhumanism.

Poetry and translations
With his 1963 poem "Prachanda Baidyutik Chhutar" ("Stark Electric Jesus"), which prompted the government's actions against the Hungryalists, Roy Choudhury introduced Confessional poetry to Bengali literature. The poem defied traditional forms (e.g., sonnet, villanelle, minnesang, pastourelle, canzone, etc.), as well as Bengali meters (e.g., matrabritto and aksharbritto). His poem "Jakham" is better known and has been translated into multiple languages.

His best-known poetry collections are Medhar Batanukul Ghungur, Naamgandho, and Illot, and a complete collection of his poems was published in 2005. He has written about 60 books since he launched the Hungryalist movement in November 1961.

Roy Choudhury also translated into Bengali works by William Blake ("The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"), Arthur Rimbaud ("A Season in Hell"), Tristan Tzara (Dada manifestos and poems), André Breton's Surrealism manifesto and poems, Jean Cocteau ("Crucifixion"), Blaise Cendrars ("Trans-Siberian Express"), and Allen Ginsberg ("Howl" and "Kaddish"). He has also translated Paul Celan's famous poem "Death Fugue".

Roy Choudhury wrote extensively on the life and works of Allen Ginsberg, Henry Miller, James Joyce, Charles Baudelaire, Jean Arthur Rimbaud, Osip Mandelstam, Marcel Proust and Anna Akhmatova.

In 2003, he was given the Sahitya Academy award, the Indian government's highest honour in the field, for translating Dharamvir Bharati's Suraj Ka Satwan Ghora. However, he declined to accept this award and others.

Adhunantika phase
In 1995, Roy Choudhury's writings, both poetry and fiction, took a dramatic turn. A linguist, Probal Dasgupta, dubbed this the Adhunantika Phase (Bengali: অধুনান্তিক পর্ব), a portmanteau of two Bengali words: adhuna, meaning "new", "current", "contemporary", or "modern", and antika, meaning "closure", "end", "extreme", or "beyond". His poetry collections from this phase are Chitkar Samagra, Chhatrakhan, Ja Lagbey Bolben, Atmadhangser Sahasrabda, Postmodern Ahlader Kobita, and Kounaper Luchimangso. His novels from the period include Namgandho, Jalanjali, Nakhadanta, Ei Adham Oi Adham, and Arup Tomar Entokanta.

During this phase Roy Choudhury wrote several poetic dramas which were a mash-up of Postmodernism and Transhumanism.

After Roy Choudhury shifted to Mumbai from Calcutta he ventured into Magic realism and wrote novels such as Labiyar Makdi, Chashomranger Locha, Thek Shuturmurg, Jungle Romio, Necropurush and Naromangshokadhoker Halnagad.

In 2014 Roy Choudhury wrote his autobiography in his distinct style titled Rahuketu.

Personal life
Roy Choudhury lived in Mumbai with his wife, Shalila, who was a field hockey player from Nagpur. Their daughter, Anushree Prashant, lives in Dubai with her husband and two daughters; his son Jitendra lives in Riyadh with his wife Sudipta.

Roy Choudhury died on 26 October 2023, at the age of 83.

In popular culture
A 2014 film based on Roy Choudhury's poem Stark Electric Jesus was directed by Mrigankasekhar Ganguly and Hyash Tanmoy. It was an official selection at 20 international film festivals in 15 countries. The film won "Best Video Art" in Poland, "Most Promising Video Artist" in Spain, and "Best Fantasy Film" in Serbia.

Srijit Mukherji directed a film in 2011 titled Baishe Srabon, in which Roy Choudhury's poetry was used many times.

Sources and references

 * Malay Roy Choudhury-r Bitarka, edited by Madhusudan Roy. Barnik Prakashon, Bardhaman, West Bengal, India (2018).
 * Malay Roy Choudhury Compendium, edited by A.M. Murshid. Avishkar Prakashani, Kolkata, India (2002).
 * Hungryalist Interviews of Malay Roy Choudhury, edited by Ajit Ray. Mahadiganta Publishers, Kolkata (1999).
 * Postmodern Interviews of Malay Roychoudhury, edited by Arabinda Pradhan. Graffiti Publishers, Kolkata (2004).
 * Van Tulsi Ki Gandh, by Phanishwarnath Renu. Rajkamal Prakashan, Delhi, India (1984).
 * Hungry Shruti & Shastravirodhi Andolon, by Uttam Das. Mahadiganta Publishers, Kolkata (1986).
 * Shater Dashaker Kabita, by Mahmud Kamal. Shilpataru Prakashani, Dhaka, Bangladesh (1991).
 * Hungry-Adhunantik Malay, edited by Ratan Biswas. Ahabkal Publications, Kolkata (2002).
 * Salted Feathers, edited by Dick Bakken. Portland, Oregon (1967).
 * Intrepid, edited by Carl Weissner. Buffalo, New York (1968).
 * English Letters to Malay, edited by Tridib Mitra. Hungry Books, Howrah, India (1968).
 * Bangla Letters to Malay, edited by Alo Mitra. Hungry Books, Howrah (1969).
 * SWAPNA (Malay Roy Choudhury Special Issue, 15th Year, #1), edited by Bishnu Dey. Nabin Chandra College, Assam (2008).
 * Sambhar: Malay Roy Choudhury Interview, by Amitava Deb. Sambhar Publications, Silchar, Assam, India (2008).
 * Savarna Barta: Hungryalist Movement and Sabarna Roy Choudhury Clan, by Sonali Mukherjee. Tarkeshwar College, Kolkata (2008).
 * Bodh: Malay Roy Choudhury's Poetry, by Uttam Chakraborty. Rupnarayanpur, West Bengal, India (2008).
 * Stark Electric Jesus, with foreword by Howard McCord. Tribal Press (1965).

Selected works
English

Stark Electric Jesus, with introduction by Howard McCord, Tribal Press, Washington DC, 1965.

Autobiography, CAAS #14 and 215, Gale Research Inc., Ohio, 1980.

Selected Poems, with introduction by P. Lal, Writers Workshop, Kolkata, 1989.

Hattali (long poem), Mahadiganta Publishers, Kolkata, 1989.

Overview: Postmodern Bangla Poetry (non-fiction), Haowa 49 Publishers, Kolkata, 2001.

Overview: Postmodern Bangla Short Stories (non-fiction), Haowa 49 Publishers, Kolkata, 2001.

Bengali

Shoytaner Mukh (Collected Poems), Krittibas Prakashani, Kolkata, 1963.

Hungry Andoloner Kavyadarshan (Hungryalist Manifesto), Debi Ray, Howrah, 1965.

Jakham (long poem), Zebra Publications, Kolkata, 1966.

Kabita Sankalan (collection of Hungryalist poems), Mahadiganta Publishers, Kolkata, 1986.

Chitkarsamagra (postmodern poems), Kabita Pakshik, Kolkata, 1995.

Chhatrakhan (postmodern poems), Kabitirtha Publishers, Kolkata, 1995.

Allen Ginsberg's Kaddish (translation), Kabitirtha Publishers, Kolkata, 1995.

Ja Lagbey Bolben (postmodern poems), Kaurab Prakashani, Jamshedpur, 1996.

Tristan Tzara's Poems (translation), Kalimati Publishers, Jamshedpur, 1996.

Allen Ginsberg's Howl (translation), Kabita Pakshik, Kolkata, 1996.

Jean Cocteau's Cricifixion (translation), Kabita Pakshik, Kolkata, 1996.

Blaise Cendrar's Trans-Siberian Express (translation), Amritalok Prakashani, Midnapur, 1997.

A (deconstruction of 23 poems), Kabita Pakshik, Kolkata, 1998.

Autobiography of Paul Gauguin (translation), Graffiti Publishers, Kolkata, 1999.

Jean Arthur Rimbaud (critique), Kabitirtha Publishers, Kolkata, 1999.

Life of Allen Ginsberg (non-fiction), Kabitirtha Prakashani, Kolkata, 2000.

Atmadhangsher Sahasrabda (collected poems), Graffiti Publishers, Kolkata, 2000.

Bhennogalpo (collection of postmodern short stories), Dibaratrir Kavya, Kolkata, 1996.

Dubjaley Jetuku Prashwas (novel), Haowa 49 Publishers, 1994.

Jalanjali (novel), Raktakarabi Publishers, Kolkata, 1996.

Naamgandho (novel), Sahana Publishers, Dhaka, 1999.

Natoksamagra (collection of plays), Kabitirtha Prakashani, Kolkata, 1998.

Hungry Kimvadanti (Hungryalist memoir), Dey Books, Kolkata, 1994.

Postmodernism (non-fiction), Haowa#49 Publishers, Kolkata, 1995.

Adhunikatar Biruddhey Kathavatra (non-fiction), Kabita Pakshik, Kolkata, 1999.

Hungryalist Interviews (edited by Ajit Ray), Mahadiganta Publishers, Kolkata, 1999.

Postmodern Kalkhando O Bangalir Patan (non-fiction), Khanan Publishers, Nagpur, 2000.

Ei Adham Oi Adham (novel), Kabitirtha Publishers, Kolkata, 2001.

Nakhadanta (postmodern novel), Haowa 49 Publishers, Kolkata, 2001.

Poems: 2004-1961 (collection of poems), Avishkar Prakashani, Kolkata, 2005.

title: Malay Roy Choudhury


text:
User talk:Mohamed A Meligy

WikiProject .NET
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title: User talk:Mohamed A Meligy


text: Template:Kentucky-geo-stub

title: Template:Kentucky-geo-stub


text:
Talk:Malay Roy Choudhury

Essay
Just as what Stefan Mallarme was for Symbolists, Ezra Pound was for Imagists, Andre Breton was for Surrealists and Allen Ginsberg was for the Beats, so is Malay Roychoudhury(1939)for the Hungryalist Movement in Bengali Literature. The movement is now known the world over as the "Hungry Generation" due to the infrequent bilingual (Bengali and English) Bulletins of the same name published by Malay which took Calcutta (renamed as Kolkatta) by storm with the appearance of its first issue in November 1961.

Initially the Movement was spearheaded by Malay,his elder brother Samir Roychowdhury, Shakti Chattopadhyay and Haradhon Dhara alias Debi Roy. Later on thirty more poets and artists joined them, famous among them being Benoy Majumdar, Utpal Kumar Basu, Falguni Ray, Subimal Basak, Tridib Mitra, Shambhu Rakshit and Anil Karanjai.

The Movement gradually petered out after 1965, but today the Hungryalist Movement is being hailed as the most important paradigm shift in postcolonial Bengali creative literature. Malay has been identified as a major Postmodern poet and novelist. Nevertheless, Malay remains the single most controversial thinker throughout these four decades. Over these periods he has experimented with all genres. Amongst his work the most discussed about are poetry collection, "MEDHAR  BATANUKUL GHUNGUR", novel, "NAAMGANDHO", drama, "ILLOT" and short story, "ALOUKIK DAMPATYA".

Malay has translated into Bengali the works of Blake (Marriage of Heaven and Hell), Rimbaud( A Season in Hell), Tristan Tzara (Dada Manifestos and poems), Cocteau (Crucifixion), Blaise Cendrars (Trans Siberian Express), as well as Ginsberg(Howl and Kaddish) who had stayed with Malay's parents in 1963.

The HAOWA 49 quaterly magazine has published in January 2001 a 300 page speacial issue exclusively devoted to Malay which discusses the works of Malay by sixty critics. Gale Research ,Ohio had published his autobiography in CAAS Vol 14. Dhaka Bangla Academy And Northwestern University, Illinois have archives on Malay/Hungry Generation.

Lakshmi Narayan Roychoudhury ,grandfather of Malay and Samir, who hailed from Savarna Choudhury clan(Job Charnok purchased Calcutta from the clan), was the pioneer photographer- artist who had established a mobile firm in 1886 and moved from one princely state to another drawing life-size oil paintings of Maharajas and their kin.Malay's father Ranjit carried on the vocation till his death in 1991. Malay's mother Amita died in 1982.

Malay now resides in a small apartment in Kolkata with his wife Shalila who was a hockey player from Nagpur when Malay first met her. Their daughter Anushree (with husband Prashant) and son Jitendra reside in Bombay.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.226.45.31 (talk • contribs) 08:49, 1 October 2005

Removed presumed Bengali from heading
"হাংরি আন্দোলন" I presume is duplicated below and is the name of the movement. Hyacinth (talk) 09:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

"Roy Choudhury's formlessness is different from Pindar and Rilke." I don't understand the relevance of this sentence to the body of the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.95.232.16 (talk) 04:35, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Crypt Publishing, Alphascript Publishing, ...
I've removed the following VDM Publishing reference: See: VDM Publishing and Amazon.com controversies. °°Playmobilonhishorse (talk) 08:15, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Malay Roy Choudhury by Hardmod Carlyle Nicolao. Crypt Publishing ( 2011 ). [ISBN - 10:613690541], [ISBN - 13:978 - 6136905419]. Amazon.com. ( $85 ).

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:36, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Bhookhi Peedhi ke manifesto.jpg

title: Talk:Malay Roy Choudhury


text: Category:London South Bank University

title: Category:London South Bank University


text:
Giovanni Aurispa

Giovanni Aurispa Piciunerio (or Piciuneri) (June/July 1376–c. 25 May 1459) was an Italian historian and savant of the 15th century. He is remembered in particular as a promoter of the revival of the study of Greek in Italy. It is to Aurispa that the world is indebted for preserving the greater part of our knowledge of the Greek classics.

Life
Aurispa was born at Noto in Sicily in 1376. A scholarship from the King of Sicily enabled him to study at Bologna from 1404 to 1410. Soon after, in 1413-4, he went to Greece as a private tutor for the sons of a Genoese merchant, Racanelli, and settled on the island of Chios. Here he learned Greek and began to collect books, including a Sophocles and a Euripides. He also obtained a number of Greek texts, including a work by Thucydides which he later sold to Niccolo Niccoli in 1417. He returned to Italy in 1414, setting in Savona, where he supported himself by teaching Greek and by selling the works he had collected in Greece.

In 1418, Aurispa visited Constantinople, where he remained for some years, perfecting his knowledge of Greek and searching for manuscripts. He worked so hard at this that he later wrote that he had been denounced to the Byzantine emperor for buying all the sacred books in the city. Upon his return from that trip he went to Florence where he entered the service of the papal court, which was then in residence in that city. He moved to Rome the following year when the court transferred there. It was there that he taught one of his most famous students, Lorenzo Valla, later himself a noted classical scholar.

In 1421 Aurispa was sent by Pope Martin V to act as the translator for the Marquis Gianfrancesco Gonzaga on a diplomatic mission to the Byzantine emperor, Manuel Paleologos. After their arrival, he gained the favor of the emperor's son and successor, John VIII Palaiologos, who took him on as his own secretary. Two years later, he accompanied his Byzantine employer on a mission to the courts of Europe. He traveled with this mission as far as Venice, where he left the imperial service.

On 15 December 1423 Aurispa arrived in Venice with the largest and finest collection of Greek texts to reach the west prior to those brought by Bessarion. In reply to a letter from the Camaldolese prior and scholar St. Ambrose Traversari, he says that he brought back 238 manuscripts. These contained all of Plato, all of Plotinus, all of Proclus, much of Iamblichus, many of the Greek poets, including Pindar, and a great deal of Greek history, including volumes of Procopius and Xenophon which had been given to him by the emperor. Also, he had the poems of Callimachus and Oppian, and the Orphic verses; and the historical works of Dio Cassius, Diodorus Siculus, and Arrian. Most of the works were hitherto unknown in the West.

Further items included the oldest manuscript of Athenaeus; a 10th-century codex containing seven plays by Sophocles and six by Aeschylus—the only manuscript in the world of these, plus the Argonautica of Apollonius of Rhodes; the Iliad, works by Demosthenes, and many more. A work by Herodotus was also among the collection; also the Geography of Strabo. The texts are all listed in the letter to Traversari.

The only patristic text Aurispa had brought from Greece was a volume containing about 200 letters of St. Gregory Nazianzen. In a letter to Traversari, he explained:

 * I have not brought any sacred volumes from Greece except the letters of Gregory, which are, I believe, 200. This book is in faultless condition, and all the pages can be read, but its beauty is hardly such as to invite the reluctant reader. Long ago I sent from Constantinople to Sicily a good number of very choice sacred volumes, for I admit frankly that they were less precious to me, and a number of malicious persons often brought charges to the Greek emperor, accusing me of pillaging the city of sacred books. With regard to the heathen books, it seemed to them not such a great crime.

Back in Venice, Aurispa is said to have been obliged to pawn his treasures for 50 gold florins to provide for the shipping costs. Traversari wrote to Lorenzo de' Medici on his behalf, who made a loan to Aurispa to redeem the manuscripts. Traversari also arranged to exchange Niccolo's transcriptions of newly discovered texts by Cicero for Aurispa's transcriptions of Aristotle's Rhetoric and Eudemian Ethics.

In 1424 Aurispa went to Bologna, where he became professor of Greek at the university, but this was not a success. At the urging of Traversari, from 1425 to 1427 he held the prestigious Chair of Greek studies in Florence. This ensured that his collection was copied widely among the humanists.

Quarrels at Florence led Aurispa to leave Florence in late 1427 or early 1428 and to move to Ferrara, where, on the recommendation of his friend, the scholar Guarino of Verona, he was appointed tutor to Meliaduse d'Este, the illegitimate son of Niccolò III d'Este, Marquis of Ferrara. He taught the classics there, took Holy Orders and obtained preferment in the Church. King Alfonso of Naples asked him through his friend Panormita to move there, but he declined.

By 1430 Aurispa had managed to recover a bundle of his manuscripts from Sicily. These included a volume of lives of the saints, including one of St. Gregory Nazianzen, as well as one of the sermons of St. John Chrysostom, a Psalter, a volume of the Gospels, and the comedies of Aristophanes. The remainder of his manuscripts seem to have never been returned to him. In 1433 he accompanied his student Meliaduse to the Council of Basel, taking a lengthy journey along the Rhine, visiting Mainz, Cologne and Aachen, in the course of which he discovered new Latin codices.

In 1438, when the Council was transferred to Ferrara, Aurispa attracted the attention of Pope Eugene IV, who appointed him an Apostolic Secretary, and so he moved to Rome. He held a similar position under Pope Nicholas V, who bestowed two lucrative commendatory abbacies on him. He seems also to have been made a papal poet laureate.

Aurispa returned to Ferrara in 1450 and died there in 1459, at the age of 83.

Legacy
Considering his long life and reputation, Aurispa produced little: Latin translations of the commentary of Hierocles on the golden verses of Pythagoras (1474) and of Philisci Consolatoria ad Ciceronem from Dio Cassius (not published until 1510); and, according to Gesner, a translation of the works of Archimedes.

Aurispa's reputation rests upon the extensive collection of manuscripts copied and distributed by him, and his persistent efforts to revive and promote the study of ancient literature.

title: Giovanni Aurispa


text:
User talk:Beerbuzz

Howdy, and welcome to Wikipedia! I'm glad to see your contribution over at Ngoyo, though I'm a bit confused by it. Can you say what part of the article you found to be inaccurate? It might be good to register your objections on the talk page for the article, and you'll certainly want to fill out the entry on the deletion page. Don't forget that if you find errors, you're welcome also to be bold and fix them--that's what Wikipedia is all about. For now, I've gone ahead and filled out the rest of the "paperwork" for the AfD, but feel free to revise what I've done if you're not sure I represented you fairly.

Here's some useful links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page (below).
 * The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing, policy, conduct, and structure tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style
 * If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Topical index.

Happy editing, and have a good time! I'll be around if you ever have any questions.--Dvyost 14:52, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Beerbuzz


text:
User talk:Mikey Way is my homeboy

Mikey way is my homeboy is cool

title: User talk:Mikey Way is my homeboy


text:
Burton Joyce

Burton Joyce is a large village and civil parish in the Gedling district of Nottinghamshire, England, 7 mi east of Nottingham, between Stoke Bardolph to the south and Bulcote to the north-east. The A612 links it to Carlton and Netherfield to the south-west and Lowdham to the north-east. Initially the site of an Iron age fort, it was occupied by Norman nobility, who founded St Helen's Church. From being a farming community, Burton Joyce grew in the early Industrial Revolution, earning repute up to the 1920s for its textile products. Many of its 3,500 inhabitants (census 2021; up from 3,443 in 2011) commute to work in Nottingham. It forms with Stoke Bardoph and Bulcote the Trent Valley ward of Gedling, with two councillors.

Early history
There is archaeological evidence such as a blade implement and arrowheads pointing to habitation in the Mesolithic and Neolithic eras. The Bronze Age finds have proved more numerous. They include a set of ring ditches, a rapier and several spearheads. The village is also notable for the site of a substantial Iron Age hillfort or bertune, later to be pronounced "Burton" in the Norman fashion (the name of the village until the early 14th-century). It was excavated in 1950–1951. The discovery of Gaulish-made samian ware and a distinctive coin, along with coarse-gritted and medieval pottery, have led archaeologists to believe that the fort was occupied by Roman soldiers sometime after their invasion of Britain in 43 AD under Vespasian. Such was not uncommon in other hill forts of the Iron Age, with Maiden Castle and Hod Hill, both in Dorset, later occupied by Romans as strategic military bases.

Middle ages
The Domesday Book of 1086 refers to "a church and a priest, sixteen acres of meadow...In the confessours time, and then at the taking the said survey, valued at one mark of silver," indicating occupancy of the then Bertune in Anglo-Saxon times. Little is known of the original church, except that reclaimed skerry stone was used to build the north aisle of the village's current St Helen's Church by Norman settlers. The aisle, unusually wide for its time, is thought to represent a much larger structure than customary in that period.

Restoration of the building in the 13th or early 14th century included a southward extension and rebuilding of the chancel, which may have been done by the aristocratic de Jorz family. Robert de Jorz as Lord of the Manor would become Sheriff of Nottingham in 1331. He was granted 20 oak trees on the King's behalf in 1307 and may have used the timber to benefit the church, which at the time was dedicated to St Oswald. Taking ownership of the Burton settlement, Robert added his surname to the village name, which became Burton Jorz and eventually Burton Joyce.

Following Roman Catholic tradition in the life of De Jorz, the church was closely associated with the nearby Shelford Priory. In 1348 Augustinian monks purchased the rights to handle many of the church's affairs for the considerable sum of £20; responsibilities included maintenance of the chancel and payment of the Vicar (the latter an obligation until the Reformation).

Early modern
Burton Joyce's history in the early modern period is largely agricultural. Evidence includes the presence of hedgerows on the bank of the River Trent, erected in the 16th century to enforce the Tudor land enclosure policy. (Wider enclosure of the area ensued from 1769.) The construction of timber farm buildings at a similar period, including barns, have proved to be some of the village's longest standing structures. Prominent landowners at the time included the Padley family, whose mansion was built in 1500 and owned by the family for some 300 years. It was demolished in the 1960s, but a street close by is named Padleys Lane. The rest of the population were mostly agricultural labourers, who numbered about 150 in the 17th century, rising to 447 according to the 1801 census.

The village church, re-dedicated to St Helen and denominated as an Anglican place of worship, fell into disrepair sometime before the 18th century. Robert Thoroton in The Antiquities of Nottinghamshire (1677) expressed distaste at various architectural features, deeming them obsolete and unattractive. Efforts by churchwardens to do repairs were reversed in 1725 when a flood inflicted damage to a cost of £1,021, with donations made by the Church of St Mary Magadalene of Newark-on-Trent later deemed to be squandered on a poor restoration attempt by the likes of Thomas Henry Wyatt and Sir Stephen Glynne. Burton Joyce's traditional Protestantism was also under threat at this time, with strong Non-conformist and Puritanical influences pervading the 17th century, as they did also in the 18th century, with the Vicar identifying a family of Anabaptists and two of Presbyterians in a report to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Herring.

Education
On 1 January 1828, lessons in English, French, Latin, writing and arithmetic were made available to boys aged 4–8 at a then substantial price of £15 per annum by Mrs and Miss Fletcher. The school in their private residence was exclusively for boarders and did not use corporal punishment. An endowment made by Henry Herbert, 4th Earl of Carnarvon in 1850 allowed a purchase of land in the centre of the village, where a small infant school was built. Construction of a larger, better equipped facility ensued in 1867, with separate classrooms for the boys and the girls. This national school came under scrutiny after the master, William Walmeley, "cruelly assaulted one of his scholars" in 1873, for which he was fined two guineas.

Notable residents
In sport, notables from Burton Joyce include Derbyshire County Cricket Club batsman John Cartledge (1855–1907). His only Test match appearance was cut short by Burton Joyce-born Alfred Shaw (1842–1907) in 1878. Shaw was an eminent cricketer known for his captaincy of England in four Test matches on an all-professional tour of Australia in 1881–1882. \ Media figures include Hollywood film producer Jack Kitchin (1901–1983), ballet critic Peter Williams (1914–1995), Sherrie Hewson (born 1950), known for frequent performances in the soap opera Coronation Street, and Matthew Horne (born 1978), best known for a leading role in the sitcom Gavin & Stacey. The comedian Sarah Keyworth (born 1993) also hails from Burton Joyce.

Other figures of note are the Oldham industrialist and philanthropist Samuel Milne (1828–1877) and author Ronald Acott Hall (1892–1966), a diplomat and unsuccessful Liberal Party parliamentary candidate for Ilford South. Rev. Theodore Hardy (1863–1918), recipient of a First World War Victoria Cross, had been licensed in 1899 as a curate to the village.

Transport
The village has regular bus links with Nottingham, Lowdham and Southwell.

East Midlands Railway serves Burton Joyce railway station in the direction of Nottingham/Derby/Matlock/Leicester and of Newark/Lincoln.

title: Burton Joyce


text:
Magdiel (school)

Magdiel (מגדיאל) is a Youth Aliyah boarding school in Hod Hasharon, Israel.

History
Magdiel was established as a home and school for children who survived the Holocaust. Its location, Magdiel, was an agricultural village founded in 1924 by Jewish immigrants from Russia, Poland and Lithuania, later joined by a group from the Netherlands.

In 1964, the village of Magdiel, along with Ramatayim, Hadar, and Ramat Hadar, merged to become Hod Hasharon.

Other schools at Magdiel include a comprehensive secondary school and a technical vocational boarding school of the ORT educational network.

Notable residents

 * Zeev Sternhell

title: Magdiel (school)


text:
Talk:Terri Schiavo case/Archive 36

Gordon's proposal
GordonWattsDotCom has proposed replacing the above paragraph with the version here:

 * In April 2000, in the midst of the guardianship challenge, Schiavo, widely described as the "brain-damaged Florida woman" at the heart of this legal battle, was admitted to a Pinellas County, Florida hospice, amid objections by her family {{ref}LibertyLink.AndersonMotion}} that this was a facility which is was prohibited by state law from admitting nonterminal patients  and prohibited by federal law from taking federal funds if it did admit nonterminal patient . The court eventually ruled A-B-and-C.

FuelWagon's proposal
FuelWagon opposes the paragraph that GordonWatts wishes to add and has proposed adding a line to one of the already existing paragraphs (the bolded text):

 * In 2000, the Schindlers again challenged Michael's guardianship. Their new evidence ostensibly reflected adversely on Michael Schiavo’s role as guardian, citing "that he had relationships with other women, that he had allegedly failed to provide appropriate care and treatment for Theresa, that he was wasting the assets within the guardianship account (according to the Schindlers, transferring Schiavo to a "hospice after it was clear that she was not “terminal” within Medicare guidelines" bullet 31), and that he was no longer competent to represent Theresa’s best interests." [24] By this time, while still legally married to Terri, Michael was in a relationship with Jodi Centonze, with whom he had fathered two children. Michael denied wrongdoing in this matter, stating that the Schindlers had actively encouraged him to "get on with his life" and date since 1991. Michael said he chose not to divorce his wife and relinquish guardianship because he wanted to ensure her final wishes (to not be kept alive in a PVS) were carried out.

FuelWagon's objections
The Schindler's challenged Michael's guardianship in 2000. Bullet 31 of the motion says that Terri's transfer to the hospice after it was clear that she was not terminal was wasting Terri's assets, and was one of their reason's for removing Michael as guardian. The court's dismissed the motion, and Michael remained guardian. The court appointed guardian ad litems never mentioned Terri's transfer to a hospice as being an issue. FuelWagon 02:56, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

What Gordon has done is create a whole new paragraph to introduce a "fact" that Florida state law says it is illegal for a hospice to admit a nonterminal patient and federal law prohibits a hospice from receiving federal funds if they admit a non-terminal patient. But the courts didn't find Terri's transfer to be illegal, the hospice was never charged and they never had their funds cut. Michael was never charged and the motion to remove him as guardian was tossed and he remained Terri's guardian. Therefore Gordon's paragraph gives undue weight to the law, hospices, and terminal patients, and leaves the implied sense that it has something to do with Terri. The only thing it has to do with Terri is that the Schindlers brought it up in a motion (as bullet 31 of 50 bullets total), and the courts dismissed the motion. Introducing an entire paragraph about an aspect of the law when the motion was tossed, no charges were filed, no one was convicted, and the hospice funds were not cut, only serves give undue weight to the law, implying the law was broken. It was not. FuelWagon 02:56, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Someone needs to point out to Gordon that this article is just not an appropriate place to reargue the case for keeping Schiavo alive.

 * Can't we just stick to saying what happened? Let's leave the obiter dicta out of it, and just stick what happened in Schiavo's case. Gordon, FW is right on this one: you're trying to bias the article by unduly weighting a discussion of hospices etc, which is not of relevance to the fact of what happened: a motion was brought and the courts dismissed it. Your (and my and anyone else's) views on whether the courts were right to do so are beyond the point (although, yes, not entirely besides it). Grace Note 03:14, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Grace N., I'm not rearguing anything. Have you even read this talk page? I'm merely suggesting reporting on the actions and events -and reactions -by the major players. Additionally, Wagon's version is very similar to mine, omitting only two elements, and I address that as well. Please read this entire page -and then give me your word that you've read it --and then I'll discuss this matter with you.-- GordonWattsDotCom 04:34, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid you are, Gordon. I don't have to read the whole talk page to see that from your proposed paragraph. I think FuelWagon's version is entirely more suitable. It's not inconceivable that I'd take your part in other disputes, but it's inconceivable that I'd agree that we should include interpretive material that is intended to sway a reader to a particular understanding of the facts. Grace Note 07:08, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

 * The proposed replacement I add only reports on what the players said; I now wonder if you did not even read my proposed edit here? ! Grace N., did you even read my proposed edit? It is like 2 sentences long, lol -- GordonWattsDotCom 07:14, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Gordon's objections
Gordon can put a couple paragraph explanation here.

Well, there are three (3) versions of the paragraph in question:

1) The existing one:
 * In April 2000, in the midst of the guardianship challenge, Schiavo, widely described as the "brain-damaged Florida woman" [25] at the heart of this legal battle, was admitted to a Pinellas County, Florida hospice [26], a facility, which in her state of Florida, is typically only legally allowed to admit terminally ill patients. [27]

2) My proposed replacement: (I fixed the small spelling typo, lol, below)
 * In April 2000, in the midst of the guardianship challenge, Schiavo, widely described as the "brain-damaged Florida woman" [12] at the heart of this legal battle, was admitted to a Pinellas County, Florida hospice [13], amid objections by her family {{ref}LibertyLink.AndersonMotion}} that this was a facility which is was prohibited by state law from admitting nonterminal patients [14] and prohibited by federal law from taking federal funds if it did admit nonterminal patient [15]. The court eventually ruled A-B-and-C.

3) Wagon's version is very similar to mine, but he omits either version of the paragraph above and interjects this sentence into an existing paragraph)
 * (according to the Schindlers, transferring Schiavo to a "hospice after it was clear that she was not “terminal” within Medicare guidelines" [16] bullet 31)

Therefore we can see that his version leaves out two important things. As Ann has pointed out, we need to tell when Terri entered into the hospice, and Wagon is leaving this out. Also, he would report only the attorney's objection on Federal grounds (financial mismanagement), not on state grounds (not allowed to even be placed in hospice).

He and Grace Note cloud the issue by bringing up "Gordon's views" (or words to that effect). Who cares about Gordon's views: Wagon has repeatedly said that we should report on what the major players said, and this is merely doing just that. If you don't believe that, please read this page -before it grows long like Pinocchio’s nose and becomes unmanageable in length to read.

My proposal would not harm anything -and it reports the various objections of the parties. I have no problem including the reactions of the other major players (Mike Schiavo, Court, Guardians, etc.) if they can be quoted correctly and sourced with some link.-- GordonWattsDotCom 04:23, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Break Down
Let's break this down into its component points, before trying to put it back together without bias:
 * 1) There was a guardianship challenge in April 2000.
 * 2) Media reports at the time called Terry a "brain-damaged Florida woman".
 * 3) A hospice in Pinellas County, Florida admitted Terry.
 * 4) Terry's parents (or "family"?) objected to the admission.
 * 5) The objection centered on the issue of whether Terry Schiavo was (A) terminal or (B) non-terminal
 * 6) State law said the facility could admit only terminal patients
 * 7) Federal law said that if the facility admitted a non-terminal patient, then it would be ineligible to take federal funds

Gordon, are these the points you are making?
 * Yes. The admin locking the page suggested I not interspace answers like I'm doing here, but I will respectfully disagree on this one minor point. He suggests I leave chronologically superior comments intact, but anyhow... to answer your question, yes.-- GordonWattsDotCom 18:36, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

FuelWagon, which of these points do you agree with / dispute? Uncle Ed 14:19, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

"There was a guardianship challenge in April 2000."
 * not disputed, already in the article FuelWagon 15:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

"Media reports at the time called Terry a "brain-damaged Florida woman"."
 * irrelevant. I don't know why Gordon insists on inserting this here except possibly to say that Terri was "brain damaged" rather than "terminal". The introduction says Terri was brain damaged. This is simply Gordon's way of saying, "she wasn't terminal, she was just injured", which then goes back to his bias that tries to suggest that terri wasn't terminal, that the transfer to the hospice was illegal. Except that this was brought before the courts as part of the guardianship challenge and the courts tossed it. And the guardian ad litems appointed by the courts never reported this transfer as being a problem deserving the removal of Michael as guardian, the revocation of federal funds from the hospice, or anyone's arrest. FuelWagon 15:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, if you want to strike out the "brain-damaged" description, and nothing else, I will allow it as a compromise -but she was known as this, and you are coloring the issue.-- GordonWattsDotCom 18:40, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

"A hospice in Pinellas County, Florida admitted Terry."
 * not disputed, it is in my proposed solution as well, I just put it in a short parenthetical statement. FuelWagon 15:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

"Terry's parents (or "family"?) objected to the admission."
 * not disputed. it is in my proposed solution as well.

"The objection centered on the issue of whether Terry Schiavo was (A) terminal or (B) non-terminal"
 * well, I don't know if it centered on it. the motion says that the transfer to a hospice was a misuse of assets, but terminal is part of the wording in the motion. FuelWagon 15:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * In April 2000, in the midst of the guardianship challenge, Schiavo, widely described as the "brain-damaged Florida woman" [12] at the heart of this legal battle, was admitted to a Pinellas County, Florida hospice [13], amid objections by her family {{ref}LibertyLink.AndersonMotion}} that this was a facility which is was prohibited by state law from admitting nonterminal patients [14] and prohibited by federal law from taking federal funds if it did admit nonterminal patient [15]. The court eventually ruled A-B-and-C.
 * Comments: I scratched out that one part per above comments, but the language, as shown by the court documents, indicate all else I allege was correct. I think you're stalling until the google cache of the official site is outdated, and then I think you hope to allege that Liberty site is not official, but I will not brook this, because I quoted valid sources.-- GordonWattsDotCom 18:43, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't dispute that your reporting of the law is correct. I dispute putting in a separate paragraph about the law, implying the law was broken, when the courts and guardians don't consider the transfer to have been a problem. read up on "undue weight". FuelWagon 18:55, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I imply nothing. You infer or read too much into it. I made my compromise, and it stands. I have spoken.-- GordonWattsDotCom 20:02, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It is undue weight to a topic the courts and guardians found irrelevant. FuelWagon 21:33, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

"State law said the facility could admit only terminal patients. Federal law said that if the facility admitted a non-terminal patient, then it would be ineligible to take federal funds"
 * not disputed as fact, but disputed as undue weight. This doesn't need a whole paragraph explaining the law, with the implication that the law was broken, when the rest of the facts are that the court never convicted anyone of breaking the law. FuelWagon 15:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * "Weight?" That paragraph above is not too heavy; it merely reports facts. I took out the objectionable part, but a good reporter leaves the essentials.-- GordonWattsDotCom 18:47, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

From reviewing this I don't see the need for the paragraph at all. That the facility wasn't supposed to allow a non terminal patient establishes nothing important and is an example of the extraordinary minutiae that this article suffers from. I'm willing to listen if the implications are a lot more important than I understand, but other than that the paragraph in either form is not valuable. An article should not include every single verifiable fact, but instead the most important facts, in a balanced way that portray the issue in the clearest way possible. Besides, on a practical matter, Gordon, all you have to do is agree not to add the paragraph until you have consensus to add it, and the article can be unprotected--an important goal in its own right. - Taxman Talk 14:01, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

I’m lost
i cannot follow the conversations here. i do not know what exactly the issues are at hand. what is being debated? what needs to be resolved? Kingturtle 09:12, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

 * My original proposal was here, but I compromised here by allowing a scratch out of one sentence; Wagon wants to do this, which leaves out the reporting of the Schindlers on the State law issue, and I think both cites objections of their lawyer should be reported; I source them, after all.--GordonWattsDotCom 09:25, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Gordon inserted a bunch of POV stuff, including two links to his own vanity sites, and some other stuff. I started taking the stuff out. He ran to an admin and got the page locked, and currently insists on keeping a POV paragraph in the article. It is explained here. FuelWagon 13:21, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

 * The core problem in my view has been the resistance expressed in nuisance-level tactics to suppress the mention in the article of claims which the Schindlers made unsuccessfully in court. The current editing dispute is yet another instance of this.  The meta-dispute which I thought was resolved a long time ago was that neutral point of view included a presentation of Schindler petitions to the court and not merely the winner's point of view.

 * Either the Schindler's raised an objection to Michael's guardianship over the hospice move as violating state law or regulation or they didn't. This is a fact or it's not a fact. The reader can judge if this indicates a frivolous claim on the part of the Schindlers, or if it demonstrates an abuse of the court's discretion as to what weight it would give laws to protect patient rights from an abusive guardian. patsw 14:10, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Wow. That's one way of putting it. Another way would be that instead of this being about the "winners" writing history, this is basically another example of the Schindlers crying "Witch!" and none of the evidence supports it. None of the evidence supports it. It was also bullet 31 of 50 bullets in their motion to remove michael as guardian, and if we give EVERY SINGLE ONE of those 50 bullets the same weight that Gordon wants to give this one, then we'll need an article just for this motion to remove Michael as guardian. This is why the article is already so big, because Gordon and others find one tiny bit of an accusation and they want to dedicate an entire subsection to it. If Gordon's paragraph is inserted describing the law regarding hospices, then I will have to add the countering points of view saying that the court never found the law to have been broken to remove Michael as guardian, never found enough cause to charge michael with breaking the law, and the hospice never had its funding cut for breaking that law. As it is, Gordon's paragraph only presents the Schindler's point of view around this, saying the transfer was against the law. If it goes in, all the points of view go in, and the article continues to bloat. FuelWagon 15:02, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
 * In April 2000, in the midst of the guardianship challenge, Schiavo, was admitted to a Pinellas County, Florida hospice, amid objections by her family {{ref}LibertyLink.AndersonMotion}}.
 * widely described as the "brain-damaged Florida woman" Redundant and apropos of nothing.
 * that this was a facility which is was prohibited by state law from admitting nonterminal patients [14] and prohibited by federal law from taking federal funds if it did admit nonterminal patient [15]. The court eventually ruled A-B-and-C. . Per FuelWagon. Bullet 31 of 50. Gordon unless you can show that there was something particularly vital about this one objection, or that it was the centerpiece of the petition, I must agree it doesn't belong. Marskell 18:28, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Before you take sides, please note that you misquoted me: I agree that the article should (ideally) not say this or that about the hospice, but I am not asking that re report this. See Talk:Terri_Schiavo#Gordon.27s_objections, under the second paragraph, and note that I later agreed to drops the part about "widely described as" --you as disagreeing with the 1st paragraph, and I am saying, "no," I am advocating the second one at that link, my "proposed replacement."-- GordonWattsDotCom  18:55, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
 * But you're still saying we should include information about what seems like an incredibly minor point. I've yet to see any substantiation on why that point is important enough to cover. Please read my post above, it may have gotten lost. If the issue is as Patsw says below, then simply remove some minutiae about Michael's claims, etc. The article needs to be trimmed down. The way to do that is to move material to articles on more specific topics and leave only higher level summaries here. That is the Summary style we keep telling you should be used here. - Taxman Talk 12:48, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Fuel Wagon's reply shows why I (among others) had to withdraw from editing the article.
 * He justifies his editing with his point of view regarding the sufficiency of the evidence. His point of view is irrelevant.  The Schindlers claimed that the transfer was improper and a reason to remove guardianship from Michael.  That's the fact.
 * His claim of bloat was one that was made to me back in April when the article was 1/5 its current size. Yet since then material supporting Michael's POV never seemed to trigger the bloat objection.  One can almost always predict when there will be a bloat objection - it will be in an edit presenting a claim made by the Schindlers.
 * I'm not coordinating with Gordon on this particular edit, but if I were its primary advocate of it, I would state that it is representative of many claims made by the Schindlers in which the court's discretion was abused to unduly favor Michael's side of the case. This particular one is easy to understand: most readers will know that people go to hospices to die within weeks or months from a progressive disease such as cancer (Michael's goal) while people go to long-term medical care facilities or nursing homes to live to the indefinite end of their natural life and to receive care appropriate to their medical condition. (the Schindler's goal) patsw 22:11, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

WHAT THE (deleted)
I got to this entry through a second entry, and when reading I had NO IDEA WHO SHE REALLY IS?! I mean. Can someone please make this article less of bullshit? I now have (thanks to shitty editors) an idea that you can actually write 900 lines of some random sick person and post every plight and awful moment of one. Pleeeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 * Thanks, LOL! I must admit I had a good laugh to that one :). Userfied :). Ryan Norton T 10:59, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * May I remind you about WP:NPA (no personal attacks) however :) Ryan Norton T 11:07, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Other than the poor phrasing, it's a good point and one that was raised in the FAC nomination. The article never really establishes why the whole issue is important nor eases a reader into the issue. See Wikipedia:Lead section. The lead should discuss why it became such a big issue and that it was an incredible media frenzy with impassioned pleas, protests, and court appeals. That, in the first paragraph or so, would do a lot to improve the lead section. - Taxman Talk 12:52, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

This is the point raised twice above by myself and twice side-tracked by debates over tiny details. The lead sentence or at least paragraph has to establish notability. I take the first sentence of the third para, mention of pronounced government involvement, as the first point of notability. Older versions had an expanded first sentence that was no doubt subject to edit warring. Marskell 12:59, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * There's a dispute over the answer to this very question: What is significant about the life of Terri Schiavo after February 25, 1990 when she collapsed in her apartment?
 * To Michael Schiavo and George Felos, it's about privacy, protecting guardianship from outside interference, and Terri's wishes.
 * To the Schindler's it's a manipulation of the legal process to kill her daughter.
 * To me, it is the first case in the U.S. where a dispute over substituted judgment ended with a court order to remove nutrition and hydration from a human being and directly cause her death, not otherwise at risk of death. patsw 13:49, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I hate to say that I am agreeing with about every editor above. I was about to write a paragraph identical to Marskell but see that he already wrote it.  Patsw's points were certainly issues, but they are common issues of almost every court in America.  These issues have been going on for centuries, see Robert Todd Lincoln using the courts to force medical care on his former first-Lady mother.  But what made her notable was the level of interest created by the media that resulted in special interest group and political involvement in medical decisions. --Noitall 14:12, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. And I can see we're going to have some fun coming up with an NPOV lead. What that also leads to is the article is improperly focused the same way. It has incredible minutiae of the day to day events, but only the very last sub-section even attempts to give an overview stating that the issue was controversial and why, and what the implications were. That's more important that the content of the 32 court briefs and the play by play of the court battles. - Taxman Talk 14:22, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * If readers must be told why the person is notable by the first sentence or first paragraph (and assuming they can't possibly wait until the third paragraph of the intro), then the simplest solution would be to put the third paragraph first and do some copyediting to splice it in. This would then mention the four trips to the supreme court, the state laws passed in her name, federal involvement, etc. I question the insistence that an article must report notability in sentence 1, but if that really is the case, then moving paragraph 3 to the beginning would be the solution. FuelWagon 15:07, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * It doesn't have to be in the first sentence, but first paragraph is ideal. Also that third paragraph--after the first sentence--is little more than another play by play. It needs to discuss the media firestorm and the implications. State the importance (yes I reallize that is hard to do in an NPOV way), don't just list events. - Taxman Talk 16:41, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * 4 trips to the supreme court, state legislation, congressional subpoena, etc is more than a play by play, it reports the notability. If media and public involvement needs to be reported to make it "notable", then we could add this to the third paragraph:

 * ...and four denials from the United States Supreme Court, among others. [1] The last few months of Shiavo's life saw widespread media attention and public protests outside her hospice that resulted in 47 arrests. On March 18, Schiavo's feeding tube....

 * Meanwhile, the page is still locked because Gordon still insists on adding another paragraph to the article about the legality of Terri's transfer to the hospice. I proposed adding language from the Schindlers motion in parenthesis of the existing text. Gordon wants a whole paragraph, which would also need to add all the other points of view. If we can get some consensus around that paragraph, then we can get the page unlocked and fix the intro too. FuelWagon 17:27, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

notability
On second thought, I retract my suggestion of putting the third paragraph first. It makes no sense to list the court battles, legislation, and other reasons for notability with no context for why they happened. The reason the Schiavo case went to the supreme court four different times is because the Schindlers disagreed with Michael's decisions. Paragraph 1 and 2 show the dispute between the Schindlers and Michael and how it evolved into the Supreme Court visits, florida legislation, and everything else. Simply saying "Terri's story went to the supreme court four times" and listing all the other legal battles has no context as to who the battles were between or what the battles were about. I would like to see a policy rule that says notability must be explained in the first sentence. Otherwise, I'll stand by the intro in its currently locked state that explains Terri's history and establishes notability in paragraph 3. FuelWagon 16:11, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Start your article with a concise paragraph defining the topic at hand and mentioning the most important points. The reader should be able to get a good overview by only reading this first paragraph. [] This is an obvious point about any descriptive prose you learn in grade eight. Topic sentences should describe topics and all the first sentence tells us now is that she was a woman from Florida.

 * This is, I believe, an older first sentence (I actually grabbed it off a user page): "Theresa Marie "Terri" Schiavo(December 3, 1963–March 31, 2005), was a St. Petersburg, Florida woman whose medical circumstances and attendant legal battles led to several high-profile court decisions and legislative initiatives and was the object of intense media attention."

 * Works for me. Marskell 17:28, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Alright. I don't have a problem with the first sentence being swapped out for that one.
 * Can some folks now weigh in on the article RFC here so that some sort of consensus can be reached so we can unlock the page? FuelWagon 17:34, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

 * How about this: woman whose peculiar medical and family circumstances and attendant legal battles fueled intense media attention and led to several high-profile court decisions and involvement by prominent politicians and interest groups. --Noitall 22:45, September 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah, sure. I'd go with that one too. I think the word "peculiar" could be dropped and/or replaced with something else. It doesn't sound right. the rest of it is fine by me. FuelWagon 03:48, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Terri Schiavo case/Archive 36


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Prussian Blue (band)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!)  11:53, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Prussian Blue (band)
Two for one! Two different bands named Prussian blue, both apparent vanity, both crappy articles. The first one is an english band, with an empty entry on AMG but no other hint to WP:MUSIC. The second I'm not sure about. It's an "aryan pride" duo of young twin girls, who do claim to have done a national tour. I've tried, but can't verify this (nor do I know what counts as a tour, since they seem to be tied up with the National Vanguard organization). No AMG entry, hard to google. Because of this I'm only a weak delete. — brighterorange  (talk) 14:56, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, at least the white power band. I've heard them on CBC; they're very creepy, but definitely verifiable, and, I think, notable. Pburka 16:55, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete both. The creepy little girls have no allmusic entry, and their single CD does not appear to have any distribution (one fan page says, "You can buy the Fragment of the Future CD from the Prussian Blue E-Store. The CD also appears on eBay from time to time.").  They therefore do not meet WP:MUSIC.  Thank god.  Bikeable 23:06, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep per Pburka, being on CBC is media coverage and passes WP:MUSIC. Kappa 00:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, the white power twins seem to pass WP:MUSIC and it would be unfair to the British band if we didn't make it clear that they were different. --Apyule 05:42, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak keep both bands in the article; per Apyule, these identically named bands need to be disambiguated. --Metropolitan90 06:56, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.