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Talk:Rajput/Archive 9

This is Sumerendra
Khurram, your knowledge of history is disgusting. Not every Rajput bowed his head to Akbar, perhaps you have forgotten Maharana Pratap and his Rajputs who were never conquered, Chatrasal of Bundelkhand, Shivaji, Lachit Barphukan, Zorawar Singh Katoch, Bhumibol, and many others. Its easy to forget such details when you are not a Rajput and enjoy the darker chapters of Rajput history and rejoice at the defeats of Rajputs rather than our victories.

''Rejoice is a hard choice of word Surmendra, there hasn't been any sign of it in any article and your emotions seem to get carried away with you. As far as I understand Rajputs may be stubborn but always level headed to any opposition? Thats the leadership quality. Escalating uncontrollable emotion is not a Rajput trait. The darker days you talk of were of Political turmoil for them rather than Religious war because even their own Rajputs were facing them in the battle field.''

In every history bbok, Rajputs are represented as the militant force that fought the Islamic invasion, and this is also recorded by Islamic historians. Using Alexander as an example is pathetic since your knowledge base there sucks too.

''How is it pathetic? Are you saying the Ambhi and Raja Puru were not Rajputra? I dont think it's Khurram who is looking pathetic...''

Alexander is pre-Christian, pre-Islamic and is part of a Pagan pantheon religion very similar to all religions that predate semetic faiths (ie Jews, Christians and Muslims). Alexander did not conquer for religion, he conquered Persia but did not destroy the Zoroastrian religion, he conquered for the sake of an Empire, which is very different than the terrorist driven mentality of the Islamic hordes, which destroyed Persia and wiped out Zoroastrianism from Persia along with Persian culture (and thats why Iranians hate Arabs).

''Iranians hate Arabs? The massive majority are Muslims in case you didnt know. Again, a handful dont constitute a majority opinion. Be careful here. I dont feel you have read enough about Alexander at all, HE DID TRY TO WIPE OUT THE PARSI/ZOROASTRIANS and to this day they call him the Evil One! They recently objected to the new Alexander Movie having an icon of their Religion on his promotional poster, seeing as he was to them what Hitler was to the Jews. He went to Egypt and proclaimed himself the Lord Pharoah himself. He was told by an Oracle that he was the son of Zeus and he believed in his own divinity (although some question this) so how can you imply that he conquered without affecting any Religions? We need to read up on subjects before we discuss them I think Surmendra.''

Why didn't the Rajputs fight Asoka? Are you for real or what? Asoka was a Hindu, and if you used the movie by Sharukh KHan as your source of Knowledge, get real. He became a buddhist after the battle of Kalinga. However, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Zoroastrainism and Sikkhism are all a part of the Vedic faiths. They may have differences but they stem from the same ancient source, the oldest source in the world.

''That is your opinion, the Jews, Christians and Muslims equally believe that the religion of Abraham is the oldest in the world. In fact the faiths you mention are very consistent with these faiths in essence, they all have near identical or very similar mystical sides and the holy men of each of these faiths offered great love and veneration of others regardless of faith. The loose term of spiritualist 'Sufism' predates Islam and is consistent with the enlightened path of Buddhism and Vedas too. In fact Syed Haji Waris Ali Shah of Dewa, Bara Bankey, UP Bihar, a famed 19th century Saint was reverred as a 'perfect Vedant' by all his esteemed Hindu devotees and he never asked them to convert to Islam at all. In fact he requested them to pray to Brahma with more Zeal and to be honest in all their affairs. Big contrast to your implied opinion of Islam...''

About the Sikhs, don't keep opushing this argument, reading your comments on the Sikhs makes my blood boil, since you have no idea what Sikhism is about, why it started, what is believes and the fact that Sikhs honestly do not have a favorable attitude towards Islam. Whether a Sikh goes to a Hindu temple or not is irrelevent since in India and elsewhere there are Sikhs who may go to Hindu temples as well, but that is a personal issue, however when it comes to Sikhs and Muslims, there is huge animosity because the Muslims killed and mudered Sikhs throughout history. The Gurus were persecuted, children killed in front of their mothers, daughters and wives and sisters raped, this is the Islam that Sikhs have seen, and for you to constantly try to bring up the Sikh issue in an argument about Rajput identity is abbhorant. Go to a Gurudwara and see our paintings on the walls of how the Muslims persecuted the Sikhs, and then sit down and read the Shiromani Gurudwara Prabhandak Comm.'s Publication from 1947 titled "Attacks on Sikhs and Hindus by the Muslim League, 1947".

''But to blame all innocent people and tar with them with a brush tainted with anothers crime is surely against even in your faith? The Gurus were murdered but by the Empire heads, not the locals who reverred them. To call all Muslims responsible in the same vain, is like us calling every Sikh even today responsible for the murders, rapes, lynchings and torture of innocents by Ranjit Singh and his army. But we dont because we know better, unlike you. I have referred to your over emotional traits blinding your cool headedness as un Rajput like, and there you do it again.''

And for your information, this encyclopedia is not an academic reference soure since anyone can simply put up their point of view and edit.

''Yes Surmendra. Even you...''

About your concept and lack of knowledge of the times in the past and how things have changed: you aksed Shivraj why people did not convert back. Maybe you could sit down and read some history to find out that in those days once a person left the Hindu or Zoroastrian faiths they could not come back. They were not allowed to re-enter and their "Jati" was cut off. Thus they lost the status they once held and were part of something else, in this case your family became slaves to the Arabs while SHivraj's family stayed free and proud. '' We are slaves yes, to the Pious beloveds of God, regardless of their Race and Class Surmendra. As far as not being allowed back in, where does it state that you only have one chance of being a Hindu? Name me one Muslim Rajput who tried to convert back to Hinduism and wasn't allowed to and his status being lost? He would no doubt still remain a Royal so thats not THAT much of a loss of status, but name me one? If you can't name any then dont play reverse psychology. You're too blinded by your prejudiced emotions to see sense in this logic anyway. We are more than content as Muslim Rajputs of Royal blood. Our Religion doesn't cut us off from our Rajput heritage, simply puts it into perspective, then who are YOU to tell us otherwise? This is a poor point indeed.''

You stated: "My sole point is that being a Rajput is only a matter of who your father is and nothing more." In that case you father is a Muslim, thus you are a Muslim, not a Rajput.

''There you go again. We are Royal blooded Rajputs, go and do what you want. We challenge you to take our Royal blood from our veins, our honour from our hearts, our truth from our souls and our courage from our chests. If you can't, then stop throwing your toys out of the pram and say something constructive instead of insensitive illogical nonsense.''

About Rajputs not able to make India a Hindu nation, that is another discussion about Nehru, Gandhi and Sardar Patel and how they screwed the Rajputs. Also the matter of Akhalistan could be brought up here since Nehru and Gandhi screwed the Sikhs and gave the Sikh territories to Pakistan, bet you never knew that was what many Sikhs believe, I'm telling you, just come to our Gurudwaras and discuss history (ie Master Tara Singh and 1947).

In case you wish to ignore history and then act as if you are being unbiased is an old tactic used by holocaust deniers.

''I dont really care for what your democratically elected leaders did to your undeserved pensions that the British Colonialists gave you to keep your pocket money in check in exchange for acceptance of their authority over you. You people didnt do a thing for your subjects and eventually became first rate hoteliers, is that the honour you show to your ancestral land and your inherited palaces and assets. The power should be in the hands of the people not the undeserving 'resting on old ancestral laurels' lazy Rajputs that they became. They accepted the Aryan British of Christian Semetic faith wouldn't you agree Surmendra? Our Sikh brothers of West Punjab enjoy our relationships with eachother and WE take care of their Holy Shrines also, so be careful when you blame us as holocaust deniers. You seem to be a logic denier.''

In my view, Shivraj has done an excellent job at presenting the arguements, however its you who refuses to see the facts and instead propagate Pakistani verisons of a distorted history.

''By comparison yes Shivraj has discussed some points relatively well in comparison to your emotional illogical and prejudiced rantings. ''

Please don't ever use the Sikh arguement again.

''Dont need to, I have explained all relevant points already. In fact I challenge you to find one point where any of us Muslim Rajputs have blamed you and your religion for the atrocities committed by some of it's poor examples of followers? But you have tried to paint us with the same brush. It should be YOU who should't use THAT argument again Surmendra...''

Shiv and Sumerendra

It is interesting to know how much obssessed you are against Islam. It is quite interesting to me. Argument after argument and avioiding the facts all the times. Ashok converted to Budhism but it is ok since it was a pre-Islamic religion and hence Rajputs didn't fight him. Most of India did convert to Budhism but it is absolutely right. And now you might come up and say that Budhism was also Hinduism (negating all the research that scholars have done). I never said that Rajputs didn't fight Muslims but they did fight each other too. Then what is the point? Who of those were Rajputs and who were not? I never approve or support the tyranical behavior of Aurengzeb or those of his kind and it is not an Islamic behavior. But you people are just too over obssessed with the Anti Islam sentiment that you don't listen to logic. I agree that not all the Rajputs did bow to Akbar, but what about who did? How many Rajas kept on fighting Aurengzeb? Bringing up a couple of examples in a country as large as India was itself speaks about the strength of your argument. My sole point was that Rajputs did not fight for their religion. They did fight for their kingdoms and rule and I don't see anything bad with it.

Sumerendra you know very well about Aurengzeb but you don't know about Rai Bular Bhatti. You don't know that the same hated Akbar did visit the Gurdawaras and ate Langar. You don't know that it was Jehangir who alloted land for the Darbar Sahib Amristar. You don't know that the foundation stone of Darbar Sahib was laid by a Muslim Sufi Saint Hazrat Mian Mir. You talk about visiting a gurdawara, tell me what was the first village of Sikhism? I live near Kartar pur and have visited the Darbar Sahib Kartar pur many times. It is being maintained by the Muslims of Pakistan and I invite you to come and witness it and other Gurdawaras present in Pakistan. And one more thing, prove me wrong that Gurur Nanka Dev was against the caste system. I wrote this in response to the argument presented in this article that one needs to believe in caste system (i.e., some are superior and others are inferior by birth) in order to be Rajput. I have many Sikh and Hindu Rajput and Jatt friends and never did anyone objected my being a Rajput. May be they are not as literate as you people are.

I think I have discovered the real problem. The problem is that you hate Islam and Muslims and there is no argument that can make you come out of that haterd. One point though Sumerendra, please make one thing straight. Not all the Muslims were Arabs, and Arabs only conquered a part of India in the 8th Century AD. Indians became subjects to the armies of Centeral Asia and not to Arabs. And how do you talk about pride? You referenced that your uncle was Maharaja of Patiala happily ruling under the rule of British. That was slavery. As far as changing religion is concerned, No Sikh is Hindu. Sikhism is another religion and it is not a Vedic religion as well. If a Muslim is not a Rajput, nor can be any Sikh (as per your argument). You go and research abour your religion before start talking about it. And one thing more, if Hindu Rajputs were given the choice of either converting to Islam or die, then how come so many Rajput families did survive and not only survive but got places amongst the highest ranks? You again didn't tell me why did Rajputs marry hundreds of their daughters to Akbar? Why? Explain these points to me and I will agree to your point of views.

At least be clear about your ideas and there is a lot of things to know and learn only if you come out of your "Anti Islamic" shell.

Khurram

POV pushing and speculation
Shivraj's claims on this page cannot be proven, and don't belong here. The burden of proof in a Wikipedia article is on the one who claims something to be a fact, not on everyone else. If I write "it is proven that the moon is made of green cheese", I should be able to provide documentation that the moon is indeed made of green cheese; it is not up to everyone else to prove to me that it is not. To say that "if there were no Rajputs in India then India would be just like Iraq/Iran/Turkey/Pakistan in terms of religion" is not a "fact", it is just speculation. There are many parts of india--most of India, in fact--where there are few or no Rajputs, yet the these regions do not have a Muslim majority today; if Rajputs are the only thing keeping a country from becoming Muslim, then why is South India, with no significant Rajput presence, still Hindu? What about Spain, or Serbia, or Bulgaria, that were subject to centuries of Muslim rule, who, in the absence of Rajputs, didn't become Muslim? And what about Sind, which was ruled by Rajputs before the Muslim conquest--why did it become Muslim, despite the presence of Rajputs? If one wanted to prove one's theory that the presence of Rajputs is the only thing that prevented mass conversion to Islam, it would be necessary to prove that 1) No region with Rajputs ever became majority muslim; and that 2) all regions without Rajputs became majority muslim. The historical record doesn't support either claim; furthermore it is extremely insulting to the vast majority of Hindus who happen not to be Rajputs to claim that, but for the Rajputs, they would have given up their religion. Lots of non-Rajputs showed enormous bravery in keeping Hinduism alive during periods of Muslim rule, and it is also well documented that many Rajput leaders showed less bravery in collaborating with their Muslim rulers.

Second, to assert that "A point to note here is that lot of Muslims and some hindu historians like Romila Thapar think that Islam/Muslims did not do conversion of Hindus by sword. The argument they give is that there are so many hindus still today in India. This is completely wrong because most muslim rulers in India tried to convert as many as they could but it was the strength of rajput sword that kept hinduism alive in India." is patently absurd. What makes Shivraj the definitive authority on Indian history, able to dismiss scholars such as Romila Thapar as "completely wrong"? It is totally fair to say that scholarly opinions differ, or to avoid speculation altogether, but to state that eminent historians "are completely wrong" without offering some compelling evidence is sloppy scholarship that has no place on Wikipedia. Tom Radulovich 07:45, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

 * hands up, you are in firing range lol الثاقب (WiseSabre| talk) 16:01, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Tom,

Fundamentally you do not understand Hinduism and Rajputs. Hinduism is a religion which does not have any way of making somebody a hindu. Once you are converted to someother religion that is it. That said in last few decades some organizations in India have invented ways to make people Hindu primarily as a backlash against christian missionaries who were converting tribals.

Reason why Spain/Bulgaria/Hungary/Serbia are not like Iraq/Iran etc is very simple. These regions were conquered by christians after muslims and since christianity preaches missionary zeal this led to reconversion of muslims back to christianity. If u look at DNA data muslim serbs and other serbs are the same stock, similar thing in Hungary etc. Find out the census towards the end of muslim rule in these countries. Iraq/Iran/Turkey etc remained under muslim rule for more then thousand years and the result is that >90% of these countries are muslim. Now why did this not happen in India? It was because of rajputs. Muslims realised very early that rajput men, women and children cannot be subdued at any cost and the wars were constant between rajputs and muslims since the birth of Islam till British came in India i.e almost a 1000 years. This was the resistance which kept hinduism alive and not the benevolence of muslim rulers in India. Though muslims would want you to believe that no conversion ever happened in India on the edge of a sword. If muslims had no resistance in India, like they had none in Iraq/Iran etc India would be like these countries. I do not understand why this is speculation or POV (whatever that means).

Regarding South India the first real muslim empire building that happened in deep south was under Aurangzeb and he had his hands full with both Shivaji and Rathores in the Indian heartland. Also what you do not realise that his incursions into south India were led by Hadas of Bundi and Kotah who are still regarded as the bravest rajputs in rajasthan. Yeah Aurangzeb was the emperor but he could not order these Hada Chauhans to convert south indians into Islam and thus south remained largely hindu, though there are pockets in Karnataka (because of backstabber Haider Ali and Tipu) and elsewhere where there are large number of Muslims. (When Jodhabai died Akbar's generals said to him that every man in his empire should shave there moustache in honor of the departed soul and Akbar agreed and he passed an order to this effect. Man Singh and Akbar had just managed to befriend Hadas and some Hadas were in Delhi during this time.  The order reached Hadas that they have to cut there moustaches they laughed at the messenger and asked him to go back. Then Akbar's muslim generals sent barbers with muslim army to there palace.  Hadas decided that they are going to fight and to hell with Akbar and Jodhabai.  Realise Hadas are less then hundred in number, sitting in Delhi which is teeming with Muslims soldiers and they are defying Akbar's direct orders. Word reached Akbar that Hadas are about to start bloodshed in Delhi and Akbar was shellshocked.  He reached there  palace and bowed to them and asked for forgiveness.  Akbar understood that if Surjan Hada was alienated and if Surjan combined with Maharana Pratap that would be the end of Akbar's rule).

Afghanistan/ Sindh was ruled by Hindus/rajputs since time immeorial but after Dahir's death Sindh was largely under unbroken muslim rule and no major wars were fought in Sindh between rajputs and muslims there. After Dahir's fall his son moved himself as commander under the Mori prince of chittore and hence Dahir's progeny were uprooted from Sindh and settled in Rajasthan. As a consequence muslims did not encounter resistance in Sindh after Dahir's fall and hence the result of Sindh being largely muslim.

No Indian is insulted because rajputs helped preserve hinduism in India. Perhaps Romila thapar and her ilk might be. Yes there are a handful of non-rajputs who fought well but that was an exception rather then the rule. Fighting was only meant to be done by Kshatriyas and nobody else.

Romila thapar, has written that Prithviraj Chauhan begged Ghori after he lost. She has also written that Ghazni broke Shivalinga at Somnath not because he was against Hindus but some other bullshit.

You as a non-hindu and a non-rajput cannot comprehend how insulting these statements are. When one of us hears such untrue propaganda it makes our blood boil. These things along with a whole bunch of other lies is being taught to young Indians today in our shcools and these history books have been edited by Ms Thapar. Why does Romila behave like this? So that she can present papers in western conferences and travel abroad. Make westerners feel good yeah there was an Aryan invasion and yes Indians and everything coming out of India is inferior to the west. Porus lost, pythagoras discovered the theorem, Pi (circle area constant) invented in greece etc. If u have scientific background read Donald Knuth's(Stanford Prof) algorithm books where he has a done a better then average job in telling the world these things were known in India as common knowledge before Greeks even knew what Maths was.

Sloppy scholarship is what I saw on wikipedia a few weeks back when I first visited this site. A rajput site bashing rajputs!! Reading history from books written by biased historians does not make you a scholar. It also does not give you free ticket to spread the false propaganda to rest of the world. I will not allow this to happen and I have been editing the junk on wikipedia that existed before I looked at this site.

If you truely want to learn more and are not arguing for the sake of arguing as others on this discussion are here is a brief list of books that are in my library.

Maharana Kumbha : sovereign, soldier, scholar

Maharana Pratap

Maharaja Mansingh : the mystic monarch of Marwar

Maravara ka itihasa

The glory of Ranthambhor

Rathaura rajavamsa ke riti-rivaja : 1600-1850 I.

Maharana Hammir of Mewar : Chitor's lost freedom restored

Maharana Pratapa : eka aise vira yoddha ki jivana-gatha jisane svatantrata ke lie apani akhiri samsa taka visala Mugala samrajya se janga ki

Maharana Pratapa : aitihasika adhyayana

The genealogical survey : Royal house of Marwar and other states

Unveiling Ajitsingh's Sanskrit biography : issues in Marwar history and Sanskrit poetics

Marwar-Jodhpur

The house of Marwar

Relations between Marwar and the Marathas, A.D. 1724-1843 A.D.

Maravara ke thikanom ki puralekhiya sampada

Durgadas Rathor : [national biography]

War strategy of Maharana Pratap, its evolution and implementation

Maharana Pratapa

Poems of Mewar

The johur of Padmini : the saga of Chitor's deathless heroine

Maharana Pratap : a biography

Maharana Pratap, the hero of Haldighati

Maharana Kumbha and his times : a glorious Hindu king

Maharana Pratap & his times

The luminous life of Maharana Pratap

Maharana Pratapa

Hindupati Maharana Sanga : sacitra

Rashtra-gaurava suravira Maharana Pratapa

Sirohi rajya ka itihasa

Essays on Bardic literature : Professor V.S. Bhatnagar felicitation volume

Bhati vamsa ka gauravamaya itihasa

Annals of Jaisalmer : a pre-mediaeval history

Rajput tales : adapted and abridged from Tod's Annals and antiquities of Rajasthan

Svatantrya vira Rava Candrasena : Jodhapura ka sasaka 1562-1581 I.

Maheca Rathaurom ka mula itihasa : Ravala Mallinatha ke vamsaja - Maheca, Baramera, Pokarana, Kotariya aura Khavariya Rathaurom ka sodhapurna itihasa

Amara Simha Rathaura

Folk tales of Rajasthan

Panna dhaya : prabandha kavya

Mevara jagiradaram ri vigata : Maharana Amarasimha Dvi. evam Maharana Bhimasimha

Maratha confederacy : a study in its origin and development

Vira siromani Rava Amarasimha Rathaura : Nagaura ka sasaka, 1638-1644 I.

Vira Durgadasa Rathaurha

Svatamtrata-premi Durgadasa Rathaura

Prithiraja Rathaura

Bharata ka Liyonidasa, Sonigira Virama de Cauhana, Jalaura = : Lionidas of India Sonigira Viram de Chauhan,Jalore : a history of greatest patriotic saga of Chauhan clan

Folklore of Rajasthan

Rise of the Maratha power

Studies on Maratha & Rajput history

Pranapala Durgadasa Rathaura

Rathaura rajavamsa ke riti-rivaja : 1600-1850 I.

Gogunda ki khyata

Rathaudam ri khyata

Early Chauhan dynasties : a study of Chauhan political history, Chauhan political institution, and life in the Chauhan dominions, from 800 to 1316 A.D.

Survey of Kheechi Chauhan history, with biographical notes

Folklore of Rajasthan

Maharana Pratap & his times

Rashtravira Durgadasa Rathaura

The Mertiyo Rathors of Merto, Rajasthan (2 vols.)

Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan (2 vols.)

-Shivraj

"POV" means point-of-view, and understanding the "Neutral Point of View" is official policy at Wikipedia. All wikipedia editors should be aware of the three policies regarding content: Neutral point of view, No original research and  Verifiability.

I think part of the confusion here is the distinction between the article and the article's talk page. To say "Romila Thapar is a completely wrong" on the talk page is rude and intellectually dodgy, but acceptable; to say so in the article is another thing, since it violates all three policies. It is not appropriate to rebut theories about why Hindus converted to Islam and advance your personal theory in the article, because the article doesn't advance ANY theory on why Hindus converted to Islam, and because 1) the NPOV policy would require that competing theories be presented dispassionately; and 2) it is your opinion (no original research); and 3) it cannot be proved or disproved (verifiability).

The Rajputs weren't able to prevent the conquest of most of India by either the Sultans of Delhi nor the Mughals, nor were they even able to prevent Muslim domination of most of Rajasthan at the height of Muslim power. The argument that Rajput military prowess was the only thing that prevented India from becoming Muslim is a pretty dodgy assertion, as the record shows that the Kshatriyas weren't always successful against Muslim armies (which were often led by Rajputs, as you point out). Nor were the Rajputs present everywhere in India. so some resistance (not armed resistance, but cultural resistance) on the part of non-Rajput indians was essential to preserving India's Hindu character. I agree that Rajputs played a very important role, but to say they were the ONLY reason that India isn't now Muslim is a hightly questionable assertion.

Also, your argument that "Regarding South India the first real muslim empire building that happened in deep south was under Aurangzeb" is factually incorrect; the Muslim conquest of India south of the Narmada began with Ala ud din Khilji in the early 14th century, a little over 100 years after the defeat of Prithviraj III. Rule by the Delhi Sultanate expanded over the next half decade, and was followed continuously by the Bahmani Sultanate and later by the Deccan sultanates in the region between the Narmada and the Tungabhadra, and extended further south after 1565. When Aurangzeb campaigned in southern India in the late 17th century, it was mostly Muslim-ruled kingdoms that he conquered. Tom Radulovich 22:49, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

There are bugs in your logic regarding Romila. How is it OK to spread one sided history of rajputs just because historians like Romila have written it? What is rajput history? Is it just what some westerners wrote about rajputs and then some Indian historians who towed the British line? Or is it what 99% of rajputs beleive and has been passed down to them from generation to generation? If one visits a rajput village and talk to the elders on any topic that I have written you would get much more data then I have been able to collect so far from books I mentioned. This is the history which is true and not the versions of Romila and a few scholars from Rajasthan are penning this correct history into books. Some of the books have been mentioned earlier.

It is intellectual stagnation to not point the flaws in history presented by Ms Thapar and other editors. How can we trust there research when most of there presentation is false.

Prithviraj could not beg a muslim for his life. Any historian who claims that has a bias against rajputs and it is unacceptable for us to beleive an iota coming from there pen.

It is absolutely correct on my part to point out Ms Thapar is completely wrong. (BTW this discussion is akin to the aryan invasion theory which has been completely debunked. Nobody in rajput country side beleieved Aryan invasion theory ever. It is just modern english educated Indians who were made to learn this stupid theory and sadly is still the case in our schools today thanks to Ms Thapar).

Conversion of Rajputs only happened due to a flaw in there own character where they wanted to retain there kingdom or remain an important general or the relatives of this king or general who converted. Rajput would not be converted by sword or how the ordinary hindus were converted as explained below.

Conversions of ordinary hindus in India happened:

a) After a war was lost.

b) When a principality was ruled by a muslim ruler for an extended period of time thru systematic pressure on hindu population by threats of torture/inhumane treatment/excessive taxation/women abduction/rape etc. e.g. old delhi / mysore/ hyderabad/ rampur/ golconda/ saharanpur/ kashmir/ bengal/avadh (lucknow) etc. have a very high density of muslim population. Wherever there were hindu kings ruling there own kingdom these mass conversion only happened if a war was lost on there soil. I fail to understand why it is difficult to judge the density of muslim population in muslim ruled areas as an example of conversion by the sword.

Some Islamists say that Hindus converted to Islam because of virtues in Islam. If that was the case we should still see ordinary Hindus converting to Islam today. But that is not the case.

Again you are wrong in stating that Rajputs could not stop muslim invasions. This is myth that has been created that somehow muslims were invincible and ruled India for 800 years.

How Alluddin won has been mentioned in the "Battles" section. Within 50 years of Chittore's fall Hammir regained it by capturing Tughlaq and for next 250 years or so Muslims had no real success against ranas of Mewar. Yes there were pockets where Muslims ruled unopposed in India and these regions have highest density of muslims. During Babur's time Rathores had a completely independent kingdom which almost touched borders with Delhi. During Akbar's time pretty much entire rajasthan was ruled by rajputs. Akbar taxed the ones who surrendered but his dictat did not run in rajput strongholds. During his time and later also there regions ruled by muslim generals of his and these parts have a very high density of muslims.

This is another example of how the world has been fed an incorrect assesment of history that muslims ruled India for 800 years. This again shows how less people understand rajputs, including all the non hindu/non rajput editors of wikipedia. A rajput would only conquer his paternal territories. Since Prithviraj's direct lines ceased to exist there was nobody who wanted to regain Delhi. It was not on any rajput's radar screen. World has crowned muslims as Indian rulers just because they were in delhi. Fact is Delhi was just like Mewar another Indian state in middle ages and happened to be ruled by Islam.

You talk about cultural resistance. Are you suggesting zoroastrainism is culturally weaker then Hinduism? How did Islamists convert entire Iran into a muslim state? This was done on the edge of the sword because they did not encounter a sustained resistance in these countries as they did in India. All Islamic rulers in India had experienced the might of Rajput sword and this was the ONLY reason why India remained largely a hindu country. We can keep arguing about it but there is no other reason. I agree that you have not read it in a book but it is the truth.

Regarding deep south exccursion I meant Mughal excursions. Though some were launched under Man Singh of Amber during Akbar's time but they were not sustained operations as happened during Aurang's time. -Shivraj

going to your point that rajputs gave there daughters up, that statement true to a certain point....remember alot of sikh rajputs fought there own battles....and they DID NOT GIVE THERE DAUGHTER AWAY like hindu rajput hill kings did....if sikh rajput were caught most did not convert as they would rather die by the sword.....

-Sun-

Truth and Myth
 Also what you do not realise that his incursions into south India were led by Hadas of Bundi and Kotah who are still regarded as the bravest rajputs in rajasthan

Here we are talking about Aurengzeb and the Rajupts in his army. Question is, why didn't Aurengzeb first attack Bundis and Kotahs to convert them to Islam since this is what they have been doing as per your comments? Secondly, why did Bundis and Kotahs head a Muslim ruler's army to invade a Hindu territory for him while they knew that these people have killed so many Rajputs and have forced people to convert from their faith? Will you do the same if the situation arise and cooperate with the tyrant? Shall they not be regarded as Non Rajputs since they fought for a "Malich" against the people of their own faith, the faith that they were the protectors of? And just to remind you, even the armies of Akbar who fought against Mahrana Partap were spearheaded by Hindu Rajputs since Turks/Mughals were never present in India in such great numbers to form a formidable force. What about those Rajputs as well? And one final note, I will never sit idle and watch my brother being cut down to shreds even if I had to pay the penatly with my blood. Why did Bundis and to that point all the Rajputs in the India not join Maharana Partab to save their religion from the tyranny of Akbar (If Akbar indeed was prosecuting the Rajputs for not becoming Muslims as you claim)? And above all, why did they marry their daughters to Akbar if his purpose was to alienate their religion?

Khurram

Khurram,

You are asking silly questions repeatedly. You have been told to read this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajput#Battles_between_Rajputs_and_Muslims

Have you read it? If not I do not want to waste my time answering questions which have already been described in great detail.

-Shivraj

Shiv

Ahmmm!! My "silly" questions have not been answered in that post. My questions were regarding your comment that Rajputs were saving their religion. The main theme of all the heroism of Meharana Partab was not accepting Akbar as king of India and not the religion. That same article does not prove any of your claim that Rajputs were forced to convert to Islam rather it talks about the alliance of Rajputs with Akbar and other rulers. Does this mean that you agree that Rajputs did fight for their kingdoms and not for their religion as you kept on saying? And also you didn't answer my question as what do you call those houses of Rajputs who befriended Akbar and all those Rajputs living in those states? Also Chittor did eventually come under the Mughal rule, then what will you call the Rajputs of that time and their descendants?

I think these questions can be answered in simple words without qouting any other resources. Can they?

If you choose not to answer any of them then can you please at least answer this question that I answered in the previous post?

Will you do the same if the situation arise and cooperate with the tyrant?

And please tell me why?

Khurram

Dear Khurram, Since you have read the article I will answer all your questions. Qasim in Sindh broke down certain temples which existed since the time of Pandavas. Ghazni desecrated one of the most important temples in India at Somnath and this was very painful for every hindu in India more so for rajputs because it was there duty to defend against invaders. You have to realise that rajputs were and still are extremely religious people who undertake all important things like building a palace/marriages/starting a war only at auspicious times pointed by stars thru brahmins. When muslims started breaking idols of Indian Gods and desecrating the temples rajputs did the like wise. As soon as they won there territory back they would break the mosque and cleanse it with gangajal build a new temple and throw all korans into the wells. They would also cleanse there entire palace with gangajal.

Point to note here is that for rajputs it was just a reaction to what they saw happening to there relgious sites at the hands of muslim invaders.

Also note that in hinduism it is perfectly OK for multiple religions to coexist. When followers of Zoroaster were kicked out of Iran by Islamic armies the rajput king of gujarat allowed them to practice there religion in Gujarat and hindus had no problem with it.

After a war was lost ordinary people which included Brahmins were forcibly converted to Islam or were sold as slaves. Protection of Brahmins and thus the religion was a key factor in rajput wars with muslims.

Jalore was a very small principality and was actually not on bad terms with Khilzi. But when Ulugh Khan broke the Shivalinga at Somnath, KanhadDev Songara could not bear this. Eventhough he knew that in long term he did not have resources to beat Khilji he still attacked Ulugh Khan defeated him and reinstated the broken pieces of Shiva linga in various temples around Jalore after cleaning the shivalingas with Ganga water.

Khurram you should think for a moment ask yourself that since in any war that muslims won on hindu territory, muslims broke the temple, why would rajputs not fight to uphold there religion.

Rajputs could not be converted by sword. Only ordinary hindus were converetd by sword. Rajputs converted to Islam to keep there kingdom or remain a general with high stature in Muslim army. After this happened the relative of such kings/generals also usually converted to Islam because they in some sense would become outcastes in hindu rajput society and have difficulty marrying etc.

Rajputs which went with Akbar were completely ostracised by Maharana Pratap and he banned all relationships with such rajputs.

Note Akbar killed all residents of chittor when they refused to convert. In some sense he captured just the walls of chittor. Maharana and his family were not in chittor and kept fighting. Not even a single rajput surrendered to Akbar at Chittore. Rajput women and children commited johar.

Question of co-operating with a tyrant does not arise.

-Shivraj

Interesting Article To Read...

Once Were Warriors: The History of the Rajput--Rajasthan's history is inextricably entwined with that of its self-proclaimed aristocracy: a warrior clan, calling themselves the Rajput, that emerged sometime during the 6th and 7th centuries. Given that no one too low in the social hierarchy could take the profession (like bearing arms) of a higher caste, this new clan, comprising both indigenous people and foreign invaders such as the Huns, held a special "rebirth" ceremony -- purifying themselves with fire -- at Mount Abu, where they assigned themselves a mythical descent from the sun and the moon. In calling themselves Rajputs (a corruption of the word Raj Putra, "sons of princes"), they officially segregated themselves from the rest of society. Proud and bloodthirsty, yet with a strict code of honor, they were to dominate the history of the region right up until independence, and are still treated with deference by their mostly loyal subjects.

The Rajputs offered their subjects protection in return for revenue, and together formed a kind of loose kinship in which each leader was entitled to unequal shares within the territory of his clan. The term they used for this collective sharing of power was "brotherhood," but predictably the clan did not remain a homogenous unit, and bitter internecine wars were fought. Besides these ongoing internal battles, the Hindu Rajputs had to defend their territory from repeated invasions by the Mughals and Maharashtras, but given the Rajputs' ferocity and unconquerable spirit, the most skillful invasion came in the form of diplomacy, when the great Mughal emperor Akbar married the daughter of Raja Bihar Mal, ruler of the Kachchwaha Rajputs (Jaipur region), who then bore him his first son, Jahangir.

Jahangir was to become the next Mughal emperor, and the bond between Mughal and Rajput was cemented when he in turn married another Kachchwaha princess (his mother's niece). A period of tremendous prosperity for the Kachchwaha clan followed, as their military prowess helped the Mughals conquer large swaths of India in return for booty. But many of the Rajput clans -- particularly the Mewar (in the Udaipur region) -- were dismayed by what they saw as a capitulation to Mughal imperialism. In the end it was English diplomacy that truly tamed the maharajas. Rather than waste money and men going to war with the Rajput kings, the English offered them a treaty. This gave "the Britishers" control of Rajputana, but in return the empire recognized the royal status of the Rajputs and allowed them to keep the majority of the taxes extorted from their subjects and the many travelers who still plied the trade routes in the Thar Desert.

This resulted in a period of unprecedented decadence for the Rajputs, who now spent their days hunting for tigers, playing polo, and flying to Europe to stock up on the latest Cartier jewels and Belgian crystal. Legends abound of their spectacular hedonism, but perhaps the most famous surround the Maharaja Jay Singh of Alwar (north of Jaipur), who wore black silk gloves when he shook hands with the English king and reputedly used elderly women and children as tiger bait. When Singh visited the showrooms of Rolls-Royce in London, he was affronted when the salesman implied that he couldn't afford to purchase one of the sleek new models -- he promptly purchased 10, shipped them home, tore their roofs off, and used them to collect garbage. The English tolerated his bizarre behavior until, after being thrown from his horse during a polo match, he doused the animal with fuel and set it alight. Having ignored previous reports of child molestation, the horse-loving British finally acted with outrage and exiled him from the state.

Above all, the Rajput maharajas expressed their newfound wealth and decadence by embarking on a frenzied building spree, spending vast fortunes on gilding and furnishing new palaces and forts, which reached its peak in Jodhpur, with the completion of the Umaid Bhawan Palace in the 1930s, at the time the largest private residence in the world.

When the imperialists were finally forced to withdraw, the "special relationship" that existed between the Rajputs and the British was honored for another 3 decades -- they were allowed to keep their titles and enjoyed a large government-funded "pension," but their loyalty to the British, even during the bloody 1857 uprisings, was to cost them in the long run.

In 1972 Prime Minister Indira Gandhi -- sensibly, but no doubt in a bid to win popular votes -- stripped the Rajputs of both stipends and titles. This left the former aristocracy almost destitute, unable to maintain either their lifestyles or their sprawling properties.

While many sold their properties and retired to live in middle-class comfort in Delhi or Mumbai, still others started opening their doors to paying guests like Jackie Kennedy and members of the English aristocracy, who came to recapture the romance of Raj-era India. By the dawn of a new millennium, these once-proud warriors had become first-rate hoteliers, offering people from all walks of life the opportunity to experience the princely lifestyle of Rajasthan.

Hmm, very interesting point here, is that the 'all accepted foreign Invaders namely the British' were despised and all sorts of rebellions took place against them, the Rajasthanis accepted pensioner status from them, which is an opn fact that many writers who are overly romantic with their past seem to be ignoring. Perhaps THEY are the hypocrites who pick and choose their masters but rebuke other Rajputs in earlier history who alligned with other 'Foreign Invaders'.

Regional differences:-

Can someone provide evidence to help understand this query. If all Rajputs are descendants of Aryans, then why do Punjabi Rajputs look so different to Rajastani Rajputs? By Punjab I refer to Punjab of India and Pakistan as a whole. Unbroken lineages outside of the Rajput race leave no scope or space for external blood mixing yet the Rajastani Rajputs appear much smaller and darker in appearance than their Punjabi counterparts?

Tom, I feel your points are well made. For the above writers to rubbish a reputed and accepted Scholar such as Romila Thapar and call her work 'Bullshit' when it is taught in schools (a sign that even the government accepts this popularly) then yes as you say it is a troublesome point. I feel you may be targetted here because of your non Rajput roots although I would say that you are probably in a better position to comment here seeing as you aren't biased against any faith or people.

Maybe Surmendra and Shiv to take some lessons in respect and tolerance which is the greatest quality of a human being, as preached by Hinduism, the Religion their ancestors allegedly single handidly protected when all other Indians couldn't. THAT IS AN OFFENSIVE STATEMENT PERIOD. To say that other peoples protecting Hinduism was an exception rather than the rule is pure utter nonsense and indicative of a poor, stubborn, biased, alienated, hate filled, immoral, insecure and faithless mentality. It is God who protects his faith, not us. Or are you contesting this fact? I hope not...

To the rest of the peaceful writers, there is a heavy anti Islamic element from the Hindu Rajputs here which is blaming any and everyone Islamic for the actions of others, and sadly they cannot fathom Muslim Rajputs either. Considering that Muslim Rajputs were a dominant force in their respective regions and today are still just as dominant, this denial by a handful of ill informed haters will never amount to much more than silly digs. We were always Royal blood, are Royal blood, always will be Royal blood, no matter what our faith. To state our glory was only with Hinduism is a poorly informed and biased opinion rather than actual fact. I will put this into upper case for you, WE DO LOVE AND RESPECT HINDUISM. We cannot do otherwise, our Religion tells us to respect it and other faiths (even though some previous other rulers didnt choose to. To each their own) and we want to. But we are of a different faith which we find virtue in (even if you dont, free world pal) we have many Hindu friends who respect us and we respect them back unconditionally. You handful of Anti Islamists cannot deny our Royal blood and our tolerance for your kind of haters. You have always been beaten and always will be beaten by truth. The insecurity is in your minds and sadly, there is a lock on your intellect for which we do not have the key...

I think that is the key fact here. Royal blood. A Royal identity. A Rajput IS NOT A HINDU FAITH PROTECTOR no matter what you anti Islamists say. Your own Pundits have stated otherwise and refer to Muslim and even some Christian Rajputs as RAJPUTS. You have the above referred articles to prove that Kshatriya dharma (Warrior path) is dynamic and a mind set i.e. nurture. Nature is secondary and DOES NOT GUARANTEE Kshatriya status. YOU ARE WRONG, FACE IT AND ACCEPT IT. YOU ARE NOT HIGHER AUTHORITIES THAN A PUNDIT, so stop throwing your toys out of the pram, stop being personal and anti. You've been proven wrong on each count that you've described but cleverly/ignorantly avoid facing these facts. Rajput blood is stubborn, yes. Blood boils when hear something you dont like. But if you steer stubborness towards the right things i.e. good character, noble endevours and respect for all, then it is a positive thing. In some respects this proves the downfall of aristocracy, if each house preaches it's superiority at the expense of fabricating and theorising the past, insisiting on the inferiority of all others. If some decided by choice to embrace another faith, that is unfathomable by you that you hate and fabricate an entire notion of a mass population following a faith they dont want to? You can put a hundred biased authored books here, the facts will never change, period.

Rathores are the Suryavanshi descendants of Raja Ram of the Ramayan Saga. Whether they become Buddhist, Jew, Muslim, Christian THEY WILL ALWAYS ENJOY THE DESCENDANCY of such a great Luminary. You and your hater friends will never be able to change their Royal blood, period. But why explain, your obviously blind to this and many other facts brought before your eyes. Keep hating, you only hurt and feed your own egos.

Raja

Raja you have no idea about history. I bet, you can claim that muslim rajputs are actually descended from Ghori/Arabs and other muslims. To say rajputs descended from Huns is preposterous. It gives you a mental comfort in falsely beleiving that rajputs are not indigenous to India and are desccendants of huns/scythians etc as this allows you to extend this theory to identify your genealogy with later day invaders like Ghori/khilji etc who are revered in Pakistan and every one there wants to connect with there lines.

Accept the fact that if your ancestors were rajputs and converted to Islam it could only happen bcause they were trying to save there kingdom/position or were relatives of such a class of people. They did not convert voluntarily.

The sooner you accept it the better it is so that we can move on. If you do not you cannot convince any one else because we all know the truth.

-Shivraj

--

I have one simple suggestion. Can somebody tell me the size of the population of Pakistani Rajputs? This probably will decide the issue. I mean if there are only a few dozen families here and there, they can be ignored as a freak phenomenon risen becuase of the long winding history of India. But if the numbers runs into lakhs, then we must include Pakistani Rajput into general Rajput community.

-Khakhan --

Back to the basics
The basic issue here is not about people claiming to be and then we take a census of the population. The basis of this arguement is that Rajput is a Hindu Jati with the Kashaktriya Caste, and this is a Caste System within the Hindu faith. If a person is not a Hindu, then the idea of claiming to be a Rajput is ridiculous. Furthermore, in Islam as far as I understand there are no castes, however even if there are, Rajput is not one of them since it is not part of the social hierarchy of Islamic society.

Furthermore, as we have repeated a thousand times on this discussion, you can loose your Jati, and thus if someone breaks the rules they can loose their Rajput desigantion, one of the main points being that if you convert than you are no longer a Rajput.

To add to this, not every Rajput is royal or from a royal family. If muslims are claiming that they are Rajputs, it is like a Nazi claiming he is a Jew, since there can be a possibility of Rajputs who were converted by force since the Islamic historians have recorded how they killed and tortured Rajputs to death. However, to claim something with complete disregard for the religion to which it belongs and the people who have maintained the history and culture is out right racist, intolerant and shows a pure hatred for things Hindu.

The person Raja, is simply on acid and needs to chill out and think for once in his life. As for Khakhan, on this basis if a million people suddenly claim to be Arabs in Pakistan, are they going to be treated as Arabs in the middle east without proof? Of course not, and Pakistanis are not treated with a lot of respect in Arab nations.

To simply claim something, hell we can all claim whatever, we could even calim to be descended from King ARthur, but that doesn't make it a fact. It just surprises me how much Pakistanis are clinging on to their Hindu roots.

As for Romilla Thapar, she has her opinions and although she is used as a standard source for most undergraduate Indian courses at the University, her claims are none the less questioned, since there is a lot of evidence against many of he claims. At the graduate level, Thapar is not considered a good source, and we were always told to read her accounts with a grain of salt since she is afterall a JNU professor, thus a University that was founded by a corrupt government for its own political agenda.

As for the claim by a lot of the loonies on this discussion board that say Pundits still refer to Muslims and Christians as Rajputs. Give me a break, first of all just because someone is a Pundit does not give the authority, nor do Rajputs always recognise the Brahmins as authorities. That in itself showed how much you know about dynamics in Hindu society. Furthermore, Non-hindus are not allowed into many sacred shrines, such Jagganath. And on that point, any ass-munch who had taken a South Asian Studies undergraduate course would have learned that Muslims are referred to as Malechas, and to claim that pundits are still calling them Rajputs is complete nonsense. And to Raja, one more thing, to simply use that ridiculous tactic of labelling the other group anti-Islamic simply because we are stating facts and truth is really pathetic. Instead you are the Anti-Hindu, Anti-Christian, Anti-Jew, Anti-Buddhist, Pro-Taliban, Pro-Al-Quaida, Pro-Terrorist type of person who would want to steal our heritage and history, thus hijacking it for your own personal agendas (just go to www.jihadwatch.org and check out all the links about how tolerant you are, yeah really tolerant). You have shown more intolerance and thus don't try to BS and play of calling us the oppressor when history itself bears witness that it was our people who were persecuted. And as Wolpert stated in his "New History of India": The Rajputs were the Vanguard of Hindu India against the Islamic onslaught.

And if any of you start throwing all the "Rajput were conquered" crap by leaving out huge sections of history, that further proves that you are not Rajputs since you rejoice in the defeat of Rajputs.

-Sumerendra

RAJPUT IS A RACIAL TERM AND HAS NOTHING TO WITH RELIGION!

Rajput is a Race not some stupid religion. If the Hun/Scythian Invasion of India did not take place between 1275 A.D to 1500 A.D. when Huns crushed all the "Great Hindu Kings" such as weak Hindu losers like Gupta, then there would be no Rajputs in India today. Rajputs are tall, strong, well-built, light-skinned/olive, fierce and technically-advanced in construction/engineering of machines, weapons and large building structures, as well as knowing how to use & implement them very well. Rajputs are a distinct Race different from the Indians, who come from the White Huns originating some place in Kazakhstan into the Caspian Sea region. They surely aren't any weak little dark Dravidians (Indians). Doesn't matter what stupid religion a Rajput is. Rajput is a RACIAL TERM, denoting anyone from the Scythian Tribes who come from Central Asia / Southern Russia. Scythian Tribes include: Huns (Rajputs), Jutes (Jatts), Parthians (Iranians), Medes (Kurds), Khazars (Jews & Gujeratis). Unless one descends from the Tall, Strong Scythian Race, they are NOT Rajputs! When you look like a Rajput and are of the Scythian Race not the Indian Race, then you have a right to comment about Rajputs. If you don't then SHUT UP! Or one day you might be laying on the cement coughing up your blood. You're all warned here. You people should go worry about your own Dravidian/Indian Race and stop making comments about White Huns (Rajputs), since you're not even their Race! Southern Afghan Nuristanis are Rajputs/Scythians too. As are many people located in Turkmenistan as well. Now you know the facts! If you are not a Tall, Strong Central Asian Hun like the Rajputs, Jatts & Afghani Pathans are then you are not any Rajput and you need to just shut up before you get shot. There was no real "war" between the Rajputs & Muslims, for these two groups have a majority of their Racial Stock from Central Asia. The only real wars between Rajputs & Muslims was over land and territorial disputes. Trust me, Rajputs don't like short, dark, little weak Indians, they don't care about you people. They just didn't want their beautiful Rajastan denigrated by a Communist-like Islamic Structure. So they fought off the Muslims. Many stupid Hindus don't even understand that it was their own Brahmin retards who engineered the Islamic Invasion of India, so that Rajputs don't get too powerful. Rajputs don't care about little dark Indians, they introduced Caste Racism to the Brahmins, which still infect India today. Rajputs never had any issues with slaughtering dark little Indians. The only battles between Rajputs & Muslims was Rajputs simply defending their Rajastan land holdings from invaders. Rajputs they themselves are recent invaders too. But Muslims needed to get past Rajastan in order to enter greater India. So Muslims had to deal with Rajputs (Huns) simply defending their Palace Cities. All the truthful history has been falsified by the Brahmin Retards in India today. If ordinary Indians found out the real Truth, they might all unite and KILL every single Brahmin they see. Just to let you regular Indians know something just so you aren't so ignorant, make no mistake about the fact that Brahmins, Muslims and Rajputs along with the British were all FRIENDS in the grand scheme of things! Through this alliance of the four came the British Raj, by which everyone else (Indians) were reduced to mere slaves and rats. Nothing had really changed since this unification of the four. The so-called "Indian Independence" was just a publicity stunt to make the world and the ordinary low-caste Indians think India became "free", lol. The best slaves are the ones who don't know they are slaves! India hasn't changed one bit since the days of the Muslims, Rajputs, Brahmins & British all uniting so they could ruin the others around them (The Indians). You ordinary Indians will never be told the truth by the officials. Unless someone comes on Wikipedia who knows something and tells you the real brutal truth, which has been suppressed from you people. The so-called "Indian Independence" was all from fraud. High-Caste Caucasian Hindus who won't even come near ordinary short & dark Indians (Dravidians) felt the need to lump them as "Hindus" too, just so they could take their 33% Hindu Count and falsely elevate it to a "55%" Hindu Count, also known as the "Fraudulent Pile". To this day, India isn't anything more than 33% Hindu. The rest are 20% Muslim, 2% Rajput, 3% Jatt, 3% Naga Orientals, the rest are the real short and dark Dravidians (Indians) or so-called "low castes" (39% to 40%). The reason why you people get laughed at, is because you will claim a cherry is a coconut. You will lay claim on something and call it what it is not! There are many different races in India and they all come from different origins and hate each other. Unless you are of Central Asian Kazakhstan / Southern Russian Racial Stock like the REAL RAJPUTS are, then you have no right to speak about them. Go worry about your own Race and stop talking about Rajputs (Huns/Scythians) unless you are a Hun Rajput, which I highly doubt, keep your mouth shut! Lastly, for you people who are Scythians & Huns (Rajputs) who decided to sell out and become lowly Hindus, you are only hurting yourself. The Brahmins have plans to get rid of you all, even today they rob your great Saka Scythian Palaces on a daily basis. If Saka Rajputs and related groups are smart, they'll all unite on Racial Grounds, then go and find every single Brahmin and kill them. Then India's problems of mass slavery, illiteracy and poverty would come to an end. You don't have to stay on the evil side which is also bent on destroying you too!

title: Talk:Rajput/Archive 9


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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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The Wharf (Holdings)

The Wharf (Holdings) Limited, or Wharf (九倉) in short, is a company founded in 1886 in Hong Kong. As its name suggests, the company's original business was in running wharfage and dockside warehousing, and it was originally known as The Hong Kong and Kowloon Wharf and Godown Company, Limited and founded by Sir Paul Chater. The company adopted its current name in 1986. The current major holder of the company is Wheelock & Co.

History
The company is still the owner of the Star Ferry, although this icon of Hong Kong now forms a relatively small part of the company's portfolio. The Five Flag Poles, a set of flag poles flying flags of the company, are a short walk from the Star Ferry's Tsim Sha Tsui pier and form a local landmark and meeting point.

In a more modern vein, the company owns two major flagship properties in the Harbour City and Times Square shopping centres in Hong Kong. Both owe their origins to the company's transportation heritage, as they are respectively built on the site of the company's original wharf, and on the site of the original depot of the Hong Kong Tramway (owned 1974–2009), a former subsidiary.

Other holdings in Hong Kong include i-CABLE, Cable TV and WTT, and Modern Terminals. The company also holds many properties in the Tsim Sha Tsui area of Kowloon.

On 26 July 2016, it was announced that Wharf Holdings (through Novel Colour Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary) is investing RMB 150 million to form WWE & Company, a social mobile shopping platform technology company.

In 2017, The Wharf (Holdings) spin-off its real estate portfolio as a sister listed company Wharf Real Estate Investment Company (Wharf REIC).

In February 2018, Wharf REIC replaced The Wharf (Holdings) as the component of the blue chip index Hang Seng Index.

In December 2020, the company was awarded a plot located on the Peak for $1.5 billion, marking the first sale of a parcel in the prestigious neighbourhood since 2011.

Holdings
Wharf Hotels is a subsidiary that manages 17 hotels, as of 2022, in Mainland China, Hong Kong and the Philippines. Twelve of the hotels are under the Marco Polo Hotels brand and five are flagged under Niccolo Hotels.

title: The Wharf (Holdings)


text: User talk:80.130.110.70

title: User talk:80.130.110.70


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Stanley & Iris

Stanley & Iris is a 1990 American romantic drama film directed by Martin Ritt and starring Jane Fonda and Robert De Niro. The screenplay by Harriet Frank, Jr. and Irving Ravetch is loosely based on the 1982 novel Union Street by Pat Barker.

The original music score is composed by John Williams and the cinematography is by Donald McAlpine. The film was marketed with the tagline "Some people need love spelled out for them." It was the final film for Ritt, Frank and Ravetch, as Ritt died ten months after the film's release, while Ravetch and Frank died respectively in 2010 and 2020. It was also the last film Fonda would appear in for 15 years until 2005's Monster-in-Law.

Plot
Iris King, a widow still grieving 8 months after losing her husband, lives in a high-crime area in Connecticut and works in a baked-goods factory. She lives from paycheck to paycheck as she raises her two children, Kelly and Richard. With money already tight for the family, Kelly learns she is pregnant, making matters worse.

Iris makes the acquaintance of Stanley Cox, a cook in the bakery's canteen, when he comes to her aid after her purse is snatched on a bus. But as their friendship develops, she notices peculiarities about Stanley. Witnessing his inability to pick out a specific medication, Iris finally realizes the truth: Stanley is illiterate. When she innocently mentions this to Stanley's boss, Stanley is fired the next day over food safety and lawsuit concerns. Unable to get steady work afterwards, Stanley moves into a garage to live. He is also forced to put his elderly father (who lived with him) in a shabby retirement home, where the old man dies after only a few weeks. Broken by these events, Stanley asks Iris if she could teach him to read. He explains that his traveling-salesman father moved him between dozens of schools all over the country when Stanley was a boy, resulting in his developing no reading or writing skills from this lack of educational stability. Iris agrees and starts giving him basic reading lessons, and he gradually grows close to her and her family. During one of these reading exercises, Stanley confides in her that he has wanted to be intimate with her since they first met, but Iris is hesitant.

Iris tests Stanley's developing reading skills by making a map for him to use to meet her at a nearby street corner, but Stanley gets hopelessly lost. Later, Iris visits a discouraged Stanley at his garage residence to try to get him to resume his lessons. Stanley, who invents things as a hobby, is at work on an elaborate cake cooling machine he designed that can potentially outperform similar commercial equipment. Iris is impressed by the device and Stanley says a nearby company was also and even offered him a job. He agrees to start reading again with Iris, and in time learns to write short sentences. The two of them begin to grow close again.

Stanley and Iris finally decide to consummate their relationship, but Iris is still clinging to her late husband's memory. This threatens their budding relationship further. Unwilling to give up on Iris because she never gave up on him, Stanley finally goes to see her. Iris hands him an unmailed letter she wrote him, and Stanley surprises her by reading it aloud nearly perfectly. Iris, now ready to start letting go of the past, accompanies Stanley to a fancy hotel where they order room service and spend the night together.

Stanley soon moves to Detroit for a new, well-paying job he has been offered based on his inventions. Several months later, back in Connecticut, Iris is carrying groceries home when a new car pulls up next to her, with Stanley behind the wheel. Stanley tells her he just got a raise and plans to buy a large fixer-upper house in Detroit – and that he wants the family to come live there with him, with her as his wife. Iris accepts.

Track listing
The original soundtrack was released with 12 tracks.

Deluxe Edition track listing
In 2017 Varèse Sarabande issued an expanded edition with John Williams' score for Martin Ritt's 1972 film Pete 'n' Tillie (tracks 27-36 - duration 17:51).

Production
The film was shot on location in Toronto, Ontario, and Waterbury, Connecticut. During the filming in Waterbury in the summer of 1988, local Vietnam War veterans picketed the production protesting Jane Fonda's anti-war activities of a decade and a half earlier. Fonda and De Niro were each paid $3.5 million for their performances; director Ritt received $1.65 million and the Ravetches $500,000.

Reception
Stanley & Iris received negative reviews from critics, as the film holds a 29% rating on Rotten Tomatoes from 17 reviews. It was also a commercial failure at the box office, grossing less than $6 million against its $23 million budget.

title: Stanley & Iris


text: Template:Kakhovskaya line RDT

title: Template:Kakhovskaya line RDT


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Antipope Sixtus XVI

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was speedy delete as hoax. Hall Monitor 18:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Antipope Sixtus XVI
del nonverifiable. nonnotable. mikka (t) 02:35, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Pope Sixtus has also further alienated some Catholics by declaring that Leonard Cohen was a prophet and by canonizing Jimi Hendrix and Marylin Monroe. DELETE and PURGE and BAN the Drastic SILLINESS and likely HOAX from WIKIPEDIA and its MIRRORS and FORKS. Sorry folks, got carried away. Pilatus 02:57, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. No such institution in Calgary, Canada that can be verified.--Nicodemus75 03:40, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete sillieness --rob 05:09, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment Re-thinking, I believe this is a candidate for Speedy Delete--Nicodemus75 05:46, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Abstain If we're voting on hoaxes and pranks... --Wetman 06:24, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with current Pope in the hopes we will get an interesting middle ground. Delete as hoax. Jkelly 07:04, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete nn, silly and so forth —Felix the Cassowary ( ɑe hɪː jɐ ) 10:14, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete as hoax vandalism. android  79  12:24, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy as a hoax.--Isotope23 16:46, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:Baylor School

Importance rating
I thought that Baylor school deserved to be in the High-importance category of Wikiproject schools because Baylor is clearly one of the more outstanding schools in the Southern United States. While it may not be as well-known internationally as Phillips Andover or Exeter, Baylor is a bit like Vanderbilt—one could even call it the Exeter of the South. Thus, its important on a regional level, and since the South is such a large part of the United States, it deserves to be in the High-importance category. Madking (talk) 19:21, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Assessment
I am assessing this article for WikiProject Schools following a request at WP:WPSCH/A. This article is developing well, and is clearly beyond Start-class, though I have decided not to give it B-class for reasons I will highlight, with further work needed to get beyond C-class. On importance, the standards needed for schools to be classified as high or top-importance are tough. The article does seem to have some national significance, with a good alumni list and record, although I would still say at best it was on the low end of high-importance, and at worst the high end of mid-importance. Also note that importance ratings are intentionally different across WikiProjects, and what is high-importance for WP Schools may not be for other projects tagged. For the moment I am leaving the existing importance rating of high-importance.

One major issue which stood out immediately when reviewing the article was the overly liberal use of non-free material - I have taken the liberty of raising my concerns on an image by image basis. The general layout of the article appears okay as per WP:WPSCH/AG, although there are some issues in places. The article should be primarily in prose with lists, bullet points, and tables only being used where necessary. The programs and campus section should be converted into prose, with the excessive amount of bold removed per WP:MOSBOLD.

There are a good number of references, though there are still enough gaps in places such as in the traditions section, to justify failing the B-class criteria on referencing alone. The reference list does seem to be dominated with primary sources closely connected to the school e.g. the school website. Wikipedia articles should primarily consist of secondary sources, particularly those from third parties, per WP:SECONDARY. The citing of other Wikipedia article is never appropriate as Wikipedia itself is not a reliable source - unsourced article content should not be trusted, and sourced content should be used by simply re-citing the sources directly. Also, I would suggest using citation templates universally rather than having bare URLs, with as many fields as possible in templates such as filled in.

While I have seen much worse, the article does have neutrality and tone issues in a few places, which may be compounded by over use of primary sources. To start, the lead should introduce the topic and summarize the entire article rather than simply note the best things about the school - see WP:LEAD for guidance. The article should not introduce rivalry or otherwise have commentary comparing the school with other educational institutions, which the finances section appears to do in places, unless reliable third-party sources make such a comparison per WP:WPSCH/AG. "Baylor School's mission is to foster in its students both the desire and the ability to make a positive difference in the world" in the academics section tells readers very little and mission statements are also disallowed per WP:WPSCH/AG#WNTI. In any case, content which quotes from a source should have quote tags. There are unfortunately many examples of an inappropriate tone with use of peacock terms in other sections including "Baylor's 1973 football team was tabbed mythical national champions" in athletics, "state-of-the-art wrestling arena" in campus, and "Baylor alumni excel in a multiplicity of fields" in alumni. To start off with, I would suggest trimming the campus section down and sticking to the key parts of the campus, which will remove both trivia and promotional content.

Feel free to ask for further feedback when needed on my user talk page or at WP:WPSCH/A. CT Cooper ·  talk 20:04, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the interesting assessment. One factual note: the phrase "mythical national champion" isn't a peacock term at all, but it's what the selection of a national champion was called in those days. It's jargon, or a term of art, but not a term of showing off.67.86.3.161 (talk) 02:38, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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UT/Chatta
Section 1.3 states that a headmaster left Baylor to serve UTC, and then U of the South at Suwanee. Very impressive.

I am inclined to change the name of UTC to Univ of Chatta, though it may have had an earlier name. Within living memory the name was changed from UC to UTC, say 1960's or 1970's. I'm old, but I'm not that old. rags (talk) 21:25, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Baylor School


text:
Talk:Tanza

can u please post a brief introduction of amaya tanza, cavite? i need it badly for my school project. please? thanks!

Fair use rationale for Image:Juedralriegodedios.jpg
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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:07, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The Flag of Tanza.png

title: Talk:Tanza


text:
Sumpter Valley Railway

The Sumpter Valley Railway, or Sumpter Valley Railroad, is a narrow gauge heritage railroad located in Baker County, in the U.S. state of Oregon. Built on a right-of-way used by the original railway of the same name, it carries excursion trains on a roughly 5 mi route between McEwen and Sumpter. The railroad has two steam locomotives and several other pieces of rolling stock. Passenger excursion trains operate on weekends and holidays from Memorial Day through the end of September.

History
The railway was incorporated in 1890 by David Eccles. The narrow gauge railway's purpose was to haul logs to the Oregon Lumber Company sawmill in South Baker City. The sawmill and railroad remained separate corporations of the same owners for the life of the railroad. The builders of the railway also owned the Grande Ronde Lumber Company in Perry, Oregon, and the railway was financed by Mormons in Utah. The line was built over terrain originally considered as part of a railway from Denver, Colorado to the Pacific coast; but the Union Pacific Railroad opted for a different route to avoid bypassing growing communities which might provide an attractive opportunity for competition by the rapidly growing Oregon Railroad and Navigation Company.

Much of the original equipment came from the Utah & Northern Railway in Idaho and Montana. The Union Pacific owned the line and began converting it to standard gauge around 1887. Eccles owned a significant amount of Union Pacific stock, exerting enough influence to acquire the now-unneeded narrow gauge equipment. The first locomotive to arrive was a small numbered 285; the Sumpter Valley also purchased a number of the U&N's Brooks  locomotives, along with a large number of boxcars and flatcars. In 1906, the railroad also acquired four locomotives from the Tonopah Railway (later the Tonopah & Goldfield Railroad).

By 1891, the line had reached McEwen, 22 mi west of Baker City, and the railroad began offering passenger and freight service. To reach uncut forests further west, the company extended the line in stages. It reached Sumpter in 1896 and continued southwestward to Whitney, Tipton, Austin and Bates. By 1910, it arrived in Prairie City, a ranching and mining community along the John Day River in Grant County. The railroad continued to use wood fuel for their locomotives until converting to oil fuel in June, 1940. Diamond-shaped smokestacks were replaced by cabbage-shaped Rushton stacks after 1916.

Ten years later, the railway began losing business to automobiles and trucks, and in 1933 the 20 mi of track between Prairie City and Bates were abandoned. Scheduled passenger service on the remaining line ended in 1937. Freight service remained, however, and in 1939 the railway purchased two Mallet locomotives from the Uintah Railway in Colorado. These engines were converted from coal to oil burners and given tenders from two locomotives. As traffic declined, the railway sold off the other, unneeded locomotives. In 1947, the railroad ceased all operations except for 1.5 mi of track in the Oregon Lumber Company yard in South Baker City. This last section was abandoned and removed in 1961.

Heritage operation
In 1971, a group of volunteers set out to rebuild the Sumpter Valley Railway. Locomotive No. 3, a 1915 Heisler steam locomotive, was restored to operation in 1976, and the new railway opened for business on July 4, 1976, over a track of less than 1 mi. The Sumpter Valley Railroad Restoration Inc. was created and 6 miles of track were reinstalled by hand over the next 15 years, to connect the McEwen, Oregon station with Sumpter, Oregon. SVR No. 19, a steam locomotive built in 1920, was restored to operating condition in 1996. Sister locomotive 20 is also located at the railroad. In 2018, #720 was added to the railroad operating fleet after an overhaul. It previously was used by the Chiquita Banana company.

In 2007, the railway opened its reproduction of the original Sumpter Depot, within sight of the Sumpter Valley Dredge State Heritage Area operated by the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department. The railway operates a number of historic Sumpter Valley Railroad and adjoining narrow gauge logging railroad steam locomotives and equipment on the line every summer.

In Prairie City at the western end of the original line, the Sumpter Valley Depot Restoration Committee renovated the Sumpter Valley Railway Passenger Station in the 1970s. The City of Prairie City has used it to house the DeWitt Museum since 1984. Its collections include lanterns, lights, and other railway artifacts, and photographs of train wrecks and of life along the rail line.

title: Sumpter Valley Railway


text:
Longannet power station

Longannet power station was a large coal-fired power station in Fife, and the last coal-fired power station in Scotland. It was capable of co-firing biomass, natural gas and sludge. The station stood on the north bank of the Firth of Forth, near Kincardine on Forth.

Its generating capacity of 2,400 megawatts was the highest of any power station in Scotland. The station began generating electricity in 1970, and when it became fully operational it was the largest coal-fired station in Europe. At the time of closure it was the third largest, after Bełchatów in Poland and Drax in England, and the 21st most polluting.

Longannet was operated by the South of Scotland Electricity Board until 1990, when its operation was handed over to Scottish Power following privatisation. After failing to win a contract from National Grid, the station closed on 24 March 2016.

The station was a regional landmark, dominating the Forth skyline with its 183 m chimney stack. Longannet lacked cooling towers, having instead used water from the River Forth for cooling. On 4 February 2021, the boiler house, turbine hall and control room were demolished in a controlled explosion. On 9 December 2021, the chimney stack was demolished.

History
The station was designed by Scottish architects Robert Matthew, Johnson Marshall & Partners. Consulting Engineers were Merz and McLellan. Construction began in 1964, 4 km downstream of the existing Kincardine power station. The station was constructed on 30 ha of land reclaimed from the Firth of Forth using ash from the Kincardine station. It began generating electricity in 1970, with a design lifetime of 30 years, and was in full operation by 1973. At the time of its completion, the station was the largest in Europe.

The facility was operated by the South of Scotland Electricity Board until 1990 when the electricity industry in the UK was privatised. After that it was operated by Scottish Power, a subsidiary of Iberdrola. It paid £40M per year in connection charges to National Grid due to its distance from South England.

The plant opted in to the UK Transitional National Plan, placing limits on its sulphur dioxide, nitrous oxides and particulates emissions. The plant tested additional technologies that could have permitted it to operate beyond 2020 under the EU Industrial Emissions Directive. The station closed on 24 March 2016.

Demolition
Demolition at the site commenced in November 2018 with the 'blow down' of the coal stock towers. The eastern boiler annexe was demolished on 11 April 2019. The boiler house, turbine hall and control room were all demolished on 4 February 2021.

On 9 December 2021, the chimney stack was demolished. Three days before this, Scottish Power had illuminated a slogan onto the chimney that read "Make Coal History". The explosives were triggered by the First Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon.

Design and specification
Longannet had an installed capacity of 2,400 MW and a declared net capacity of 2,304 MW due to plant overheads. The station produced 9,525 GWh of electricity in 2012, an increase on the 9,139 GWh produced in 2011.

Electricity generation
The station consumed up to 4500000 tonnes of coal each year. Coal was delivered either by road or rail to the station's coal store, which had the capacity to hold up to 2,000,000 tonnes. It was then fed from the coal store to the boiler house by a conveyor belt capable of carrying 3,500 tonnes of coal per hour.

Each of the four boilers was serviced by eight pulverising units, each capable of processing 40 tonnes of coal an hour. The front-wall-fired Foster Wheeler boilers could each burn around 250 tonnes of coal an hour at full load. There were two forced draft and two induced draft fans on each boiler. Each boiler provided around 1,800 tonnes per hour of steam at a pressure of 168 bar and a temperature of 568 C to two 300 MW General Electric Company turbo generators. The thermal efficiency of the plant was around 37%.

Coal supply
Coal was originally supplied directly by conveyor belt from the neighbouring Longannet Colliery, until it closed in 2002 after a flood. Around half of the coal used was Scottish, and the rest had to be imported, the majority via the former British Steel plc ore loading facility at Hunterston Terminal in Ayrshire. Onward transport was by rail and the level of traffic required to supply Longannet's fuel demand caused congestion on the Scottish rail network. An alternative route, the Stirling-Alloa-Kincardine rail link, at the mouth of the river Forth was reopened in 2008, and was also used to deliver coal.

Cooling system
The chimney was 183 m tall; the station did not have cooling towers, instead using water drawn from the Firth of Forth at a rate of 327000 m3 per hour for the station's cooling condensers. The water was passed through coarse screens and then circulated by four electrically driven pumps. Once circulated through the station's condensers, the water was discharged into a mile long cooling channel, where heat was dissipated before the water reached a wide part of the Forth. Water used by the boilers was on a different cycle, and had to be deionised. Losses from this supply were made up by a plant capable of treating 218 m3 of water per hour.

Electrostatic precipitators and sulphur trioxide conditioning
The station was fitted with electrostatic precipitators (ESP) to reduce the station's particulate emissions. In the late 1980s, the station's units were fitted with sulphur trioxide (SO3) conditioning equipment to lower the fly ash's electrical resistivity. This was to ensure the station maintained allowable particulate emissions. Between 1989 and 1994, the station's ESPs were given a major refurbishment. This meant that the SO3 conditioning equipment did not need to be operated as frequently to maintain the allowed level of particulate emissions. This was beneficial as SO3 is hazardous.

NOx reduction
In 1994, the station was awarded funding from the European Commission under the THERMIE Demonstration Programme. With this money, Unit 2 at the station was retrofitted with gas-reburn equipment. This was the largest scale application of this technology in the world. In this process, natural gas is injected into the boiler. This cut NOx emissions from Unit 2 by 50%, as well as giving a reduction in CO2 and SO2 emissions. In 1996, all the station's boilers were fitted with Low NOx burners. This reduced the station's NOx emissions by 40%.

The blend of coal fed to each unit was intended to minimise emissions of sulphur.

Carbon capture and storage
The UK's first carbon capture and storage (CCS) unit was commissioned at the station in 2009. It closed in 2011 after it became clear that it was not financially viable. Plans for a UK Government funded project to convert Longannet to CCS were abandoned in 2011 and no further plans for CCS at Longannet were announced.

Environmental and health impact
In 2003, Longannet was named as Scotland's biggest polluter in a report by the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (SEPA). The station produced up to 4,350 tonnes of ash per day. This was piped to ash lagoons surrounding the nearby Preston Island. This was then landscaped and used to claim land from the Firth of Forth.

To improve environmental emissions, Longannet was fitted with 'Low-NOx' burners to limit the formation of oxides of nitrogen and a 'gas reburn system' that used natural gas to convert NOx into nitrogen and water vapour. Longannet used to burn up to 65,000 tonnes of treated and dried sewage sludge per year, which has a similar calorific value to low-quality brown coal. In 2005, a judge ruled the burning of sludge as illegal, but the SEPA continued to allow Scottish Power to burn the sludge illegally as part of an agreement which originally required Scottish Power to construct, and have in operation, a biomass plant in 2010. All burning of biomass at Longannet – including waste-derived fuel and sawdust pellets – ceased in April 2012.

In 2007, the WWF named Europe's 30 most climate polluting power stations in absolute terms; of these, Longannet was the most polluting in the UK (relative to power output). It was the 21st most polluting power station in Europe.

According to a Greenpeace-commissioned report by Stuttgart University on the health impacts of the biggest coal-burning power plants in Europe, Longannet was responsible for 4,210 lost 'life years' in 2010.

title: Longannet power station


text:
User talk:PokerMania6

Indefinitely blocked for elaborate Bush vandalism (including the gay photo which is also a copyright infringement) Wikipedia does not want your gay porn, please keep it to yourself. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 02:39, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Get your gay porno out of here. R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 02:43, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:PokerMania6


text: Category:Terrorism in Indonesia

title: Category:Terrorism in Indonesia


text: Category:Science and technology in Slovakia


text:
Face to Face (The Angels album)

Face to Face is the second studio album by Australian hard rock band, the Angels, which was released in June 1978. It was co-produced by the band with Mark Opitz, which peaked at No. 18 on the Kent Music Report Albums Chart. For shipment of 280,000 copies, it was accredited as 4× platinum.

The international version was released in March 1980 under the band name, Angel City, as a compilation of tracks from both the Australian version of Face to Face and from their third studio album, No Exit (June 1979). It also included a re-recorded version of "Am I Ever Gonna See Your Face Again", which had been issued as their debut single in March 1976 from their first album, The Angels.

The album cover was designed by Peter Ledger and won the King of Pop award for 'Best Album Cover Design' in 1978. In October 2010, Face to Face was listed in the book, 100 Best Australian Albums. The international version of album was reissued on CD by Rock Candy Records in 2011.

Reception
Australian musicologist, Ian McFarlane, described Face to Face as a "watershed" release for both the group and Mark Opitz. Ed Nimmervoll of Howlspace website opined that it "delivered a tough blend of punk and metal. The band brought it home on stage behind their theatrical lead singer, jumping and gesturing maniacally, highlighting the drama in the lyrics. In every way they were one of the most exciting bands in the country, and exhaustive touring brought the band a generation of loyal fans." John Floyd of AllMusic declared of the international version, "This roaring Australian combo displays their AC/DC-cum-punk hearts on a powerful US debut." Canadian journalist Martin Popoff described the band as "a more new-wavey, more intelligent and busier version" of AC/DC and praised the 1980s version of the album for being "a solid barroom collection of unassuming yet infectious roots rockers, riding the line between stiff hard rock and base metal".

Track listings
Credits adapted from the original LP releases.

Personnel

 * Doc Neeson – lead vocals
 * Rick Brewster – lead guitar
 * John Brewster – rhythm guitar
 * Chris Bailey – bass guitar
 * Graham "Buzz" Bidstrup – drums

 * Production
 * Producer – The Angels, Mark Opitz
 * Cover artwork – Peter Ledger

title: Face to Face (The Angels album)


text:
Vassar College Observatory

The Vassar College Observatory is an astronomical observatory of the private Vassar College, located near the eastern edge of the Poughkeepsie, New York college's campus. Finished in 1865, it was the first building on the college's campus, older even than the Main Building, with which it shares the status of National Historic Landmark. The observatory's significance is due to its association with Maria Mitchell, the first widely known female astronomer in the United States.

As the college has built a new observatory on a hill near the edge of campus, the building is no longer used for astronomy. In 2008 it underwent a large restoration and renovation and now houses the offices of the education department and classrooms.

History
Mitchell, the first manager of the observatory, focused primarily on observing planets and their satellites. She was an avid advocate for using the observatory as part of courses of study. Students could frequently be found using both the main telescope and any number of smaller instruments. In addition to serving as an educational and research facility, the original observatory also served as a home for Maria and her father during and after her tenure as professor.

Professor Mary W. Whitney assumed the directorship in 1888. She had been a student of Mitchell's. Whitney focused on comets and published in 1890, 1892 and 1895 in the Astronomical Journal.

It was noted in Popular Astronomy in 1904, "In general the work done at Vassar is similar to that done at several of the smaller German and Italian observatories."

The building was declared a National Historic Landmark in 1991.

The old observatory is no longer used for research. While the building still stands, the telescope has been removed and most of the building is used as office space. In the late 1990s, a new observatory was built on the Vassar College campus. The Class of '51 Observatory houses two telescopes; one 20-inch reflector used primarily for public outreach, and a 32-inch reflector used for teaching and research. It is tied with the Austin-Fellows telescope of the Stull Observatory at Alfred University for being the 2nd-largest optical telescope in the state of New York, the largest being the 40-inch reflector at SUNY Oneonta College Observatory.

List of directors

 * Maria Mitchell (1865–1888)
 * Mary W. Whitney (1888–1895)
 * Caroline Furness (1895–1936)
 * Maud Worcester Makemson (1936-1957)
 * Henry Albers (1958–1990)
 * Fred Chromey (1990–2016)
 * Colette Salyk (2016–present)

title: Vassar College Observatory