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User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 1

Article Bihar
My dear sir, why you are reverting my edits of Bihar? Please be considerate.

The edits of 17 April 2005 by you were reverted by me as already there was a section in the article Bihar – Bihar (disambiguation) and as such there was no justifiable reason to change the main character by the name Bihar. The edits by you shall be placed in the section Bihar (disambiguation). Here, it is also pertinent to note that though wikipedia sets its own standard, but even in Enclopaedia Britannica Bihar has been separately dealt with, and in my humble opinion the case with wikipedia should not be different. The article Bihar represents a state of India and 100 million people reside in Bihar and Bihar has a recorded history of 2500 years. In any case, the position of Bihar as a separate article was already accepted by the community of wikipedians as the legend Bihar (disambiguation) was there along with the main article of Bihar.

I trust that the position has been clarified. In case, you donot agree, you are most welcome to discuss the matter further.--Bhadani 04:32, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My appeal to you
Hello, I understand your feelings, you have again reverted my edits of Bihar. Ok, but please see the Bihar Talk Page (Discussion) and I appeal to you to please discuss the issue. Thanks and bye. By the way, I am trying to add edits to "Bihar County" of Hungary. It was nice to learn that there are other places which carry the word Bihar. Please, I request you to send me few words of reply, ok. --Bhadani 06:13, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bihar
Hello! The normal policy in Wikipedia is that the main article space should go the most prominent or best-known sue of a term. As, in the case of 'Bihar', that's clearly the Indian Bihar, it should be called 'Bihar', and the disambiguation page should be called Bihar (disambiguation). I don't in fact agree with the policy, but that's beside the point; it is the policy, and we have to follow it I'm afraid. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 11:39, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Yes, what I should call you ... I donot know your name, anyway dear, I saw your kind message on the Bihar Talk Page. Your response is very balanced. However, let the matter rest for some time, as I had appealed to some more Users ... who have been using wikipedia for a period longer than me and you. In any case, I thank you for your kind response. I am searching the materials about "Bihar County" and try to contribute positively as soon as possible. Let all should come closer and build a great wikipedia --Bhadani 07:51, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Article Bihar : Issue since resolved, thanks
Dear User:Hottentot and User:Mel Etitis User:Tony Sidaway User:Sundar User:Nichalp - Article Bihar related issue since resolved. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bihar), section Bihar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Bhadani) - Thanks to you all.--Bhadani 14:46, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Image:HH_wave.jpg
It seems to me that your use of the image in the article qualifies as fair use unless someone complains. If you're feeling ambitious you could try to contact the owners of http://www.dalailama.com/ and ask them if they'll release this image (and any other images on their site) under GFDL or CC or PD. You could even invite them to proofread or contribute articles for us. Matt 04:37, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Fair use is a vague concept that means that a copyright holder doesn't have complete control over their work. For instance if you were to go and photocopy a page out of a book (for personal use) that would be fair use, if you were to copy the entire book then that would not be fair use. If you were to put an image of a book cover in an encyclopedia article for illustrative purposes then that would be fair use, but if you were to use that same image as a cover to your own book then that would not be fair use. In wikipedia we allow fair use of some images but note that the link above states "Always use a more free alternative if one is available. Such images can often be used more readily outside the US. If you see a fair use image and know of an alternative more free equivalent, please replace it, so the Wikipedia can become as free as possible. Eventually we may have a way to identify images as more restricted than GFDL on the article pages, to make the desire for a more free image more obvious." Remember that IANAL and none of this qualifies as legal advice :) Matt 05:35, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Image Copyright
I noticed you uploaded Image:Elderpanchen.gif and Image:Bjpt0926004.jpg.I wondered if you could elaborate on the source and copyright status of the of the image. You can contact me on my talk page. Cheers. Burgundavia 07:17, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm, that makes those images pretty clear copyright violations. Unfortunately fairuse doesn't really cover us here. So I am going to go ahead an list them as such. Sorry about that. For the future, only upload images that you are certain that can be used, and try and avoid fairuse, as it is very legall y grey. Hope this clears things up, sorry about all the fuss. Burgundavia 11:05, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Tibet image
Hi Hottentot, can you tell me where you got Image:Tibet borders over time.jpg? thanks. -- ran (talk) 22:09, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

 * ... uh, but can you try to find it? If you can't, then it might have to be deleted because the source is unknown. -- ran (talk) 22:20, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't delete other people's comments from your own talk page! In any case, I've found what appears to be the source of the image... it looks like a copyright violation. Oh well... it really was a better map than before. In the future either upload images that are not copyrighted, or upload your own images. Lots of people (myself included) draw their own maps... play around a bit in Photoshop, you'll be pleasantly surprised with what you get. :) -- ran (talk) 23:32, Apr 24, 2005 (UTC)

Well... it depends on where they got it from. If they drew it themselves then they'll be able to give permission. It doesn't hurt to ask, though :) -- ran (talk) 02:53, Apr 25, 2005 (UTC) Sorry about making the new messages box light up for you... I was putting my previous reply under the right section. -- ran (talk) 18:14, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting those ugly boxes on Urgyen Trinley Dorje and Thaye Dorje. They were truly awful, but I didn't know what I could do about them. — Sandover 04:04, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Tibet Autonomous Region
Hi Hottentot, I've changed your addition to the TAR article. You're right in saying that there's a dispute over how autonomous the TAR really is, but the statement: because the TAR is mostly ruled by the Chinese, not the Tibetans themselves is a bit too vague. It's hard to say what the TAR is "mostly ruled" by without providing more information -- what's "mostly"? That's why I've linked to a debate on the extent of ethnic autonomy in China in general. -- ran (talk) 20:47, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Tibet borders over time.jpg
Hi Hottentot, This image has been listed at Copyright problems since April 24, it will soon be deleted unless a compatible copyright is identified. You can leave you comments at its entry there Copyright_problems.--Duk 02:04, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Image has been deleted. Do not upload it again without first getting permission for a compatible license. You can find more images at Commons that might make suitable replacements.--Duk 17:19, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Why that photo should not have been put back on the main L.A. page
There was a reason why that photo of the L.A. skyline was pulled. Copyright is a strict liability tort, meaning that good faith is no defense. Publishing any copy of a photo without express permission from the photographer creates liability for damages (although of course it is up to the photographer to decide to sue). It is unnecessary for the plaintiff to prove anything about state of mind. The burden is on users of copyrighted works to prove that they are not infringing on someone's copyright. Yes, this is why copyright law is so controversial nowadays.

Anyway, that is why all photos on Wikipedia must include a copyright license notice from the photographer, unless they can be demonstrated to be either public domain or the use on Wikipedia is fair use (for example, the use of a flag or logo).

Unless and until that photographer actually creates a Wikipedia account and specifically grants permission (or posts a license on his personal Web site and then duplicates it on the appropriate Wikipedia page), that photo cannot stay on Wikipedia.

--Coolcaesar 02:36, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Coolcaesar has made a fine analysis of the matter. A small detail to add is that this is apparently a professional photograph, quite possibly taken for commercial purposes. If so, our usage of it could interfere with the copyright owner's ability to profit from their property. However, all is not lost. In the fine spirit of Wikipedia we're contributing photographs that we ourselves have taken. While we can't replicate that exact photo, there are many opportunities to add content to the article with our work. For example, there are dozens of cities and neighborhoods of Los Angeles whose articles are not illustrated at all. I've added a couple. Take pictures of what's around you that is notable and encyclopedic. Cheers, -Willmcw 04:26, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

 * OK, I've finally found the original uploader, it was User:MattSal. User:Hottentot

 * In the original deletion discussion he indicated that he did not know from where he had obtained the image. However, it's worth asking again. -Willmcw 05:09, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

 * I asked him. By the way, where would I be able to view that deletion discussion? User:Hottentot

 * The archives of Images and media for deletion. However the news below may make it moot. Cheers, -Willmcw 16:59, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Regarding the issue of who is the photographer (which Hottentot asked on my talk page), I don't know, but before Wikipedia can use that image, the burden is on Wikipedia to find out. Even worse, under current copyright law, copyright vests automatically in all creative works once they are fixed in a tangible medium. Although registration of works does help with certain procedural issues (when it comes to actually suing someone), an artist is not required to register in order to get copyright protection. So even an inquiry with the Copyright Office wouldn't help with regard to figuring out where that picture came from, because it may not even be registered (but is still protected under federal copyright law).

In case you're wondering why we have this crazy system, this is actually the way most countries have always structured their copyright law. The United States came into compliance with international law with the 1976 revision of the Copyright Act. Previously one had to register copyright and then renew it once, under a variety of highly technical procedures. After many artists were unable to enforce their copyrights because of their failure to register or renew properly, they lobbied Congress to get rid of those crazy procedures and to make copyright vest automatically. --Coolcaesar 23:36, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Los Angeles Image
I feel what you're saying about the image. If there's no place copyrighting it, why shouldn't it be PD? However, the administrators don't have feelings, so our opinion is worthless. However, I could promise to have an even better picture of the Los Angeles skyline up within the next week, this time with the photographer's consent. How about that? Anyways, MattSal 10:56, May 17, 2005 (UTC)

Changes to Dbus-gtsang article
Dear Sir, I wonder if you can explain what you found objectionable to my spelling, and factual corrections to the Dbus-gtsang article.--Nathan hill 09:37, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Changes to Slob-bzang-rgya-mtsho
Dear Sir, I wonder if you can explain why you moved the article I had moved, and had written this commen. "Who the hell cares about his name in Chinese translation". I personally don't know Chinese, and no where did I mention his name in Chinese. Perhaps you are confusing Tibetan and Chinese? I had moved the page to the correct spelling of the fellow's name in Tibetan. A language (unlike Chinese) which I do know. --Nathan hill 14:52, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ah, nevermind I went through the old versions, and I do agree there is no need for the Chinese. But I wonder why you moved it back to the incorrect spellnig. --Nathan hill 14:54, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Revert?
Hottentot,

May I ask for justification of the reverting of my edits in San Diego, California? In my opinion, they did not degrade the quality of the article.

In my edits, I a) replaced the location map; b) provided a templete listing San Diego County's incorporated cities; c) centered divs inside the infobox with align="center" to allow compatability with Mozilla Firefox; and d) gave the infobox a double border.

See this page, which should contain my original edits.

Best regards, Short Verses 04:31, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

 * Would it be okay with you if I reverted my edits back to my article and then post the old map instead of the new one? Short Verses 04:43, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

 * I have made the revert. If you really want the old map, edit the page, scroll down to this line:

 *  |[[image:SanDiegoCALM.JPG|250px|(San Diego Location)]]

 * and change

 * SanDiegoCALM.JPG

 * to

 * SD_in_SD_County_map.png

 * Sincerely, Short Verses 05:41, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

Lewis Wickes Hine
Hi!

I saw that you deleted all the text from Lewis Wickes Hine and copied the text into Lewis Hine. This isn't really good practice, because it destroys the page history (it also doesn't transfer the talk page, but since there isn't one, that's not an issue here). I'm going to undo the change and mention it on the talk page. I don't know which page is the better name for this photographer, so if you want to move the page, please click on the move button at the top of the page. However, I see that it was moved before (in 2003), so it may be that it should remain at Lewis Wickes Hine. Thanks. :) kmccoy (talk) 20:21, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The move page says "In those cases, you will have to move or merge the page manually if desired. You can contact an administrator if you cannot do so, but please do not just copy and paste the contents (doing that destroys the page's edit history)." I would say that if you really feel it's important to move that page, you should try to contact an administrator to help you. kmccoy (talk) 20:33, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, except that it specifically asks you not to "just copy and paste the contents". I've bolded that above to make it clear. kmccoy (talk) 20:41, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I see that you reverted the page to the copy/pasted page move. I've reverted it again.  Please go to Requested moves to get this done -- your method of copy/pasting it destroys the edit history of the page, which is a very important function of the wikipedia.  Please don't revert it back without checking into other ways of moving the page.  Thanks. kmccoy (talk) 21:22, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Article tags
You have covered the Coat of arms of Dagestan with several tags. However, you have not completed the process of applying them. You did not indicate why it is a candidate for speedy deletion (in fact, it is not - please read the speedy delete criteria for information), nor did you list your redirect for deletion on the appropriate page. I do not understand what your issue is here. The article redirect is a perfectly reasonable one, and takes someone searching for "coat of arms of Dagestan" directly to the page which provides it. I have reverted this page to its original redirect status. Please get back to me if you can provide reasonable information for deleting this page. Denni ☯ 19:27, 2005 Jun 11 (UTC)

Districts of Szatmár
Hi! As districts of the county Szatmár, I listed the present names of the district seats. You changed that to Hungarian district name + district. Although you're technically right, do you think someone is ever going to make an article about Nagybánya district? The link to Baia Mare (and other district seats) is much more informative I think. Unless you have a better idea, I will revert it to my last version.Markussep 11:07, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi, in order to make it clearer I transformed the district information into a table for Szatmár, see if you like it. Markussep 30 June 2005 08:36 (UTC)

 * I see you made it even prettier ;-) Let's use it for all Kingdom of Hungary counties. I made a list at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Historical Hungarian counties (yes there is a project page, but I think it's not so active). Markussep 30 June 2005 17:45 (UTC)

 * OK! Maybe we can work on the template again, simplify it a bit for instance. But first the districts. Markussep 30 June 2005 18:50 (UTC)

 * Let's make a to-do list on the project page. I'll make a proposal for a simple template there as well. Markussep 30 June 2005 19:10 (UTC)

 * I haven't seen any reactions on my proposed template yet. Shall I replace the template/structure on WikiProject Historical Hungarian counties with mine, like it's on the talk page? We can use Hont as a model article. Markussep 10:03, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Tibetan display issues
That is about how it looks on my computer too, and no that is not how it should look. The trouble is that in the way Tibetan was put into Unicode their are all sorts of ligatures, and although much software supports unicode they do not support these ligatures, as far as I know all that can be done is to wait. Try looking at the font section of www.thdl.org though. --Nathan hill 15:15, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Songtsen Gampo
I was a bit surprised that you moved this without responding to my question at "Requests for move". This is a Tibetan person, whose Tibetan name was given in Tibetan Romanisation (as, I'm told by my orientalist colleagues, is how it would normally be spelt in the literature). Why has it been changed to the Chinese Romanisation? Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 22:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

History of Tibet
Dear Mr. Hottentot, It is one thing if you disagree with Wylie transliteration, it is another to undo many hours of my work. My contributions on early Tibetan history are all well cited and factual, can you please explain what makes you think it was appropriate to revert the page.--Nathan hill 08:04, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi Hottentot, sorry for this slightly tardy reply... I've put up a sort of compromise proposal at Talk:Tibet. -- ran (talk) 02:03, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Tangut Empire
Dear Hottentot, Now you have really gone too far. You have undone my work on the Tangut empire eventhough it in no way concerns the Wylie question. Are you also going to undo my work on Franco-Provencal just because you hate me? Why should we use the standard english names in the case of U-tsang but use a Chinese name 'Western Xia' instead of the standard English 'Tangut Empire'. Also, why is Tangut history part of Chinese History. The Tangut Empire had its own language, was politically independent, and has as much to do with Tibetan history of Mongol history than Chinese History.--Nathan hill 09:56, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Notability and speedy deletion
You listed Benny Thurman for speedy deletion on the grounds that the article was "not notable enough". Lack of notability is not grounds for speedy deletion. Period. Please review the standards for speedy deletion and ensure that the articles you mark for speedy deletion actually qualify for speedy deletion. Thank you for editing Wikipedia. Kelly Martin 22:52, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

recognition of Tibet
For starters, Wikipedia is not a debate BBS. If you want to debate about Tibet, go to the China History Forums or something. There are plenty of people willing to debate this with you.

I'm not the expert on this, so I can only give you an analogy: millions of Taiwanese citizens travel all over the world on Taiwanese passports, yet most countries of the world do not give diplomatic recognition to the Republic of China (Taiwan). Why then would one Tibetan passport stamped with visas mean that Tibet is diplomatically recognized? -- ran (talk) 21:20, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, Foreign relations of Tibet gives a detailed account of how that passport and the stamps on it came to be. A rather interesting read I must say. -- ran (talk) 00:47, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

And here's an even more interesting read from the Tibet in Exile website:

''China today claims that "no country ever recognised Tibet." In international law, recognition can be obtained by an explicit act of recognition or by implicit act or behaviour. The conclusion of treaties, even the conduct of negotiations, and certainly the maintenance of diplomatic relations are forms of recognition. Mongolia and Tibet concluded a formal treaty of recognition in 1913; Nepal not only concluded peace treaties with Tibet, and maintained an Ambassador in Lhasa, but also formally stated to the United Nations in 1949, as part of its application for UN membership, that it maintained independent diplomatic relations with Tibet as it did with several other countries including the United Kingdom, the United States, India and Burma.''

This seems to suggest that indeed, no country except Mongolia gave explicit recognition to Tibet, but many countries gave implicit recognition to Tibet, by reaching agreements, etc. This is the same level of relationship maintained between Taiwan and other countries, and for that matter, between Taiwan and the PRC. Although we do not doubt that Taiwan today is a state de facto, it is not recognized to be one by most countries in the world.

Mongolia is a rather interesting case. If I remember correctly, after declaring independence, signing a treaty with Tibet, etc., it actually rescinded its independence and agreed to become a part of the Republic of China. But I'll research this some more. -- ran (talk) 00:52, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, Yuje is basically right. Ladakhi, Bhutia (Sikkimese) and Dzongkha (Bhutanese) are basically variants of Tibetan, while Tawang (in Arunachal Pradesh) was in fact the home of one of the Dalai Lamas. In fact, extremist Chinese "patriot" groups online often point to the Tibetan government in exile's exclusion of these areas from Historic Tibet as evidence that Tibet in Exile is a puppet of Indian expansionism and Western imperialism, etc. Indeed, it would be unwise for Tibet in Exile to make these claims on territories now part of India (except Bhutan, which is independent), since they're being housed thanks to the hospitality of Dharamsala, India. -- ran (talk) 06:04, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

What?
What makes the Hottentot so hot? What puts the "ape" in apricot? WHAT HAVE THEY GOT THAT I AIN'T GOT???

Sorry, I saw your ID on the Empire State Building page and suddenly started channeling the Cowardly Lion. Speaking of which, would you agree that the Emerald City of Oz is an example of Art Deco, or possibly Streamline Moderne? I don't know from architecture, but the style of the 30s is very distinctive. Wahkeenah 05:46, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Aha, so an independent website asserts that it is Art Deco. Awesome. FYI, I don't think I had slipped this bit into the Empire State article, but that one book refers to the Building as "the world's largest example" of Art Deco architecture. If so, I expect the Chrysler Building would qualify as the second largest example, yes? Wahkeenah 06:30, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Map of India
Here you go Image:India-states-map-blank.png. I've uploaded the highest resolution I had. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  10:36, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for removing the lame drawing at Yin and yang. I'd been thinking about yanking it since I saw it. Cheers, Fire Star 05:08, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Dagestan
May I ask you why you moved "Administrative division of Dagestan" to "Administrative divisions of Dagestan"? The reason for the word "division" being in singular was because it basically meant "System of administrative division ", as opposed to "Unit s into which Dagestan is subdivided". I don't really have a preference of which title to use, but if you like your variant better, then, to maintain consistency, please also move the administrative division articles for the rest of Russian republics. Thanks.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 19:38, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for changing it back, but I can't help but be curious if "divisions" sounds better than "division" to an English-speaking person. To me, it really makes no difference, but then, English is my second language. The reason I am asking is because this is not the first time someone tried to change it to "divisions".—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 19:47, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

OK. Like I said, I have no problem with you changing it to plural, as long as all instances are changed. I am just too lazy to do it myself, is all :)—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) 20:12, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Province templates
Please do not delete useful info (map and links) from the province templates.--Patrick 12:13, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

Why are you blanket reverting w/o comments?
You are reverting all my changes in a variety of Asia-related articles. These include, but aren't limited to: I would appreciate it if you would provide or extend your commentary as it seems as though you are just following me around reverting things. It seems quite rude. I would appreciate a bit more professionalism. Peace and happy editing.--GrandCru 28 June 2005 03:31 (UTC)
 * Economy of Taiwan
 * Mainland China
 * History of Hong Kong

Thank you for your quick response. I can appreciate that you disagree w/ some of my edits. Can you address them individually instead of just blanket reverting all my edits? Editing takes some time and to have all that work reverted in a second is disheartening. Thank you.--GrandCru 28 June 2005 03:38 (UTC)

p.s. How did you add that box at the bottom of Ami? Pretty cool.--GrandCru 28 June 2005 03:43 (UTC)

Thanks, I guess the matter is now resolved. I've reverted back the changes you've agreed with me on and I have left your other reversions. Peace and happy editing.--GrandCru 28 June 2005 04:08 (UTC)

Khakassia
Khakassia is listed next in the Russian federal subjects WikiProject to-do list. I will re-write the article (and check which flag is correct) as time permits some time in future. Of course, if you wish to work on that article yourself, you are more than welcome to do so.—Ëzhiki (erinaceus amurensis) June 28, 2005 18:18 (UTC)

Tibet Map
Hi Hottentot, my map is based on the map at the website of the Government of Tibet in Exile, which you can see here:

-- ran (talk) June 28, 2005 20:04 (UTC)

Paiwan
It's on the Paiwan people. I'll correct the interwikis. -- ran (talk) June 28, 2005 20:10 (UTC)

Query on unfree images
Hi, I want to know the official policy on images taken from Government websites. For example, the images of Shahabuddin Ahmed, Hossain Mohammad Ershad and Badruddoza Choudhury appear to be the official photo released by Bangladesh Government. In that case, what is wikipedia's policy? Is it "fair use" or not? Thanks --Ragib 29 June 2005 07:31 (UTC)

Tibet-stub
Hello. I notice that you added Tibet-stub to the stub types page. Note that the top of the page states:

"To avoid unnecessary redirects and reverts, please discuss all new stubs at WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria prior to creation of new stubs and placement in articles or tables."

I have therefore moved the entry to the relevant location. Feel free to discuss it there.

--TheParanoidOne 29 June 2005 21:38 (UTC)

DAlai Lama
What I mean is, the mother of Tsayangyang Gyatso has two husbands, and they happen to be father and son. Mr Tan 30 June 2005 05:53 (UTC)

Image:Questionforran.jpg
Could you please confirm that you requested deletion of the image as User:24.4.227.36? - Mgm|(talk) June 30, 2005 08:35 (UTC)

11th Panchen Lama
Do you think we could just leave them the way it is right now? This is a pretty emotional issue and I think it would be good to acknowledge the claims of both sides (the same way we have People's Republic of China and Republic of China, as well as the Government of Tibet in Exile, rather than Red China, Taiwan Regime and Dalai Lama Clique.)

Not the best analogy, I know. -_- I admit that part of my motivation is laziness (moving articles around at 2am? -_-) Please tell me what you think. -- ran (talk) July 3, 2005 06:12 (UTC)

 * I went to school in Beijing, but that was such a long time ago I hardly remember it... currently I live in Canada. -- ran (talk) July 3, 2005 06:19 (UTC)

talks about HU version for Counties of RO
Hi Hottentot, the counties of ROmania are a ROmanian internal affair. IF you want to provide HU version for any RO administrative division, you can simply put it in the Magyar Wikipedia. About HU alternate names of rivers, mountains, lakes, geographical units that are shared with RO, it's normal to provide them. For HU alternate names of cities in RO that shared history with HU, it is normal to provide them. But, RO counties don't share history with HU, nor do they "flow through" HU. so best thing is leave them as RO internal affair, and put their HU "alternate name" in Magyar Wikipedia. otherwise its irredentism to provide HU version for RO administrative divisions. -- Criztu 3 July 2005 19:21 (UTC)

 * ok Hottentot, i hope i made my point understood. About administrative divisions of RO there is no "alternate name". there is the wikiarticle Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary where we can find information about administrative divisions of the Kgdom of Hungary. If Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, then the example of Mures river vs Mures county over at Britannica is good example. Providing the names of the administrative divisions of Kgdom of Hungary next to the names of administrative divisions of Romania in an english encyclopedia about Romania is not an encyclopedic thing, it's anything else -- Criztu 5 July 2005 12:41 (UTC)

hi, i put up my "reasons against" in the text of what will be the Vote on the Survey meant to solve the dispute resolution on wether to provide the names of Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary as alternates for the names of the counties of ROmania on Talk:Harghita, please present your "reasons for" providing the names, so we can submitt to voting -- Criztu 11:33, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I presented my reasons for not providing the names of the Administrative divisions of the Kingdom of Hungary as alternates for the names of the Counties of Romania in Talk:Harghita/Vote. are you intending of presenting reasons for providing them? are you intending on formulating the "for providing" otherwise ? its been a week since we started formulating the text of the Survey. I'd like to submit it to voting -- Criztu 08:56, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

BioCOTW Project
You voted for  Pope Shenouda III of Alexandria, this weeks' Biography Collaboration of the weeks. Please come and help them become a featured-standard article.

Sheikh Hasina Image
The image in the article is the official portrait as released during her term as prime minister. Why didn't you bother to discuss it in the discussion page of the article? Aren't official government images considered to be public domain? I am expecting your reply on this. Thanks. --Ragib 4 July 2005 03:38 (UTC)

Voting for other people
I reverted the votes you added to both collaborations for Lhasa. You cannot move other peoples votes. People do not vote on COTW for example, because Lhasa is not a stub anymore. You could however leave messages at their talk-pages and invite them to vote.--Fenice 4 July 2005 21:08 (UTC)

Image:Fazal Ilahi Chaudhry.jpg
You listed this as a possibly unfree image... I didn't see that you listed it on the page and unless you have a specific reason to believe that it fits that description I think that it should be listed as unknown or if you know the source at least explain why it's not fair use? gren 5 July 2005 04:26 (UTC)

 * Ok, thanks for changing it back :) gren 5 July 2005 12:37 (UTC)

current
Hello, rather than reverting back to your version, can you in future discuss any changes you make on the talk page. A number of other Wikipedians have made a edit, so instead of just reverting you should discuss why you don't like it on the talk page. Simply reverting creates factions and doesn't help at all, as both sides may have valid points but when edit warring people tend to irrationally ignore the opposing view, no matter how sensible it is. So please could you discuss why you think your version is more helpful or clearer, on the talk page. Thanks! Talrias (t | e | c) 5 July 2005 17:46 (UTC)

 * I noticed your edit summary, "I don't need to discuss on the talk page the fact that it is important to keep the info about bias and vandalism". This is a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of Wikipedia: if there is a disagreement, discuss, rather than simply reverting repeatedly. — Dan | Talk 7 July 2005 00:52 (UTC)

 * I must again request that you refrain from making edits to a highly visible template like current when people have said on the talk page that people do not agree with your changes. We should all use the talk page to discuss a wording which everyone agrees with, then implement it. If everyone changes it whenever they feel like it, not only does it annoy people who preferred their version for whatever reason, but it means that all pages which include it, over 100 different articles, have to be recreated from the server, which is a waste of processing power. By talking about the wording on the talk page, it's far better as we can discuss the wording and implement what everyone likes, rather than creating factions which just annoys people on all sides. Please, discuss when something is controversial, rather than making big changes. Thankyou, and I look forward to hearing you on the talk page. :) Talrias (t | e | c) 7 July 2005 20:42 (UTC)

Klara
A word to let you know I agree the picture of AH wasn't needed. Wyss 6 July 2005 07:33 (UTC)

Notable quotes
I believe your quotes are perfectly notable especially in comparison to some articles which contain obscure quotes. Thanks for contributing them. Falphin 7 July 2005 01:13 (UTC)

Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama
I've tweaked it a little. -- ran (talk) July 7, 2005 02:39 (UTC)

3RR
You have violated the three revert rule on Template:Current. I understand that this may be due to a misunderstanding about how the talk process works: it is customary to talk it out before a change is made. So, in this case, as there is a dispute, the right approach is to let the template stand as is was before the controversial change was introduced, and only if a consensus is reached, apply the changes. Technically, by reverting 5 times within 24 hours, you have already broken the rule, but because of the possible misunderstanding I am cutting you some slack. If you revert once again within the 24 hour period, I am afraid I shall have to block you for 24 hours. --khaosworks July 7, 2005 07:09 (UTC)

Vandalism on Autofellatio
Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 8 July 2005 02:15 (UTC)

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.. (Autofellatio). Stop it. You have been warned repeatedly. Even if you disagree with other editors, violating the 3RR is unacceptable. Ground Zero 8 July 2005 02:36 (UTC)

 * You are in danger of violating the three-revert rule on . Please cease further reverts or you may be blocked from further editing. -- Rama 8 July 2005 08:07 (UTC)

ok, sorry, but seriously what is your opinion: do you want to keep that image?? --Hottentot
 * I don't have a problem with it. It is buried in a link, so no-one is forced to look at it. If someone is reading an article on autofellatio and clicks any of the links from the article, they are probably looking for more information. If they are offended by the subject matter of the article, they will back out of the article, not dig deeper into it. That's my view, but my bigger concern is that revert wars are a waste of everybody's time and are contrary to Wikipeida policy. Ground Zero 8 July 2005 13:50 (UTC)
 * Specificly, you said in the edit summary box: "I think it is important to include this for people that don't want to see some guy sucking his dick." Umm.... why would these people click on a link that says "Photograph of a man performing autofellatio"? It seems to advertise pretty clearly what it delivers. And it is in an article about guys sucking their own dicks. Ground Zero 8 July 2005 16:32 (UTC)

I know, but it's not necessary to have a picture of the guy, for crying out loud. Why do we even have that picture anyways? Who CARES if it's under a free licence! --Hottentot
 * I think the issue has been debated both on the talk page, and, if memory serves, through a VfD, and it survived. I'm not interested in reviving the debate. It does serve the purpose of proving something that some might think is be an urban legend, and not really possible. Ground Zero 8 July 2005 17:58 (UTC)
 * _ _Different things offend different people, and different places tolerate different kinds of offense. WP firmly tolerates the photo that offends you, but it doesn't tolerate either censorship  of that photo or people singling out what offends them as needing special labelling. Your energy would be better spent letting people know how far outside your standards WP is. Those belonging to the 700 Club and the Taliban will care; my family and i, and WP's dedicated readers and editors, will not.
 * _ _You know what offends me? People who think they've discovered the central secret of the universe, and have so little respect for their peers that they want to cram that secret down their throats. I.e., you offend me.  That doesn't make me want to erase your account, nor label your user page to warn about how offensive you are. Nor is your offensiveness reason for blocking you from the unacceptably aggressive editing you have been doing; the reason for blocking you will be the effect of your behavior on our work.  But (since i am confident you are going to push things beyond the limit of WP's tolerance for disruption) when you get blocked or maybe even banned, i'm going to take pleasure in the frustrating of an offensive jerk -- in doing it myself, or seeing colleagues do it. The good news (for both you and me, actually) is that here we don't get rid of people whose offensiveness we're done tolerating by elevating a tank's main gun, that their neck is tied to.
 * --Jerzy·t 2005 July 9 08:35 (UTC)

Hawaiian language
Yes, it looks good. Zora 8 July 2005 23:05 (UTC)

Lhasa
Please explain your revert.

Lapsed Pacifist 9 July 2005 00:15 (UTC)

Which is why I qualified it with the PRC's stance.

Lapsed Pacifist 9 July 2005 00:22 (UTC)

So improve on it.

Lapsed Pacifist 9 July 2005 00:28 (UTC)

Why not? Before 1950, Lhasa was unique in this respect. Now its just the highest capital of a Chinese region.

Lapsed Pacifist 9 July 2005 01:13 (UTC)

"Ok, fine, change it back if you want." Now sup keak. What gives?

Lapsed Pacifist 01:27, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Partly a hunch, based on my perception of Chinese businessmen moving to Lhasa being more motivated and better financed than the locals, partly something I read on an official (i.e. government) tourism website which said that there were more Chinese businesses than Tibetan in Lhasa (which I cannot find right now). I'll leave it off until I can substantiate it.

Lapsed Pacifist 02:02, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Stop disrupting Template talk:Current
It was funny once, now stop. We get your point. The issue is not with shortening the template, it was removing your "bias and vandalism" comments. -- Netoholic @ 9 July 2005 05:32 (UTC)

No native language
Because I have less than native-like proficiency in my first language. — Pekinensis 9 July 2005 14:54 (UTC)

precolonial congo
hey i noticed you fixed a little of the formatting for the precolonial congo article, i hadnt noticed it was there. thanks! anyway, what did you think of the article? this is one of my first wikipedia articles and no one has given me any feedback on it, and some feedback would be greatly appreciated.--Gozar 07:03, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Tibetan Issues
I claimed that the Dalai Lama's family was moderately wealthy because, according to his memory and his biography the family relied on hired labour. A farming family that uses hired hands is obviously not poor. I think I mentioned that on the talk page. The Dalai Lama's have always claimed temporal power, but they have not exercised it. There are only two periods in which there is any evidence that they did - under the Fifth and the Thirteenth (including a little bit under the Fourteenth up to 1950). Even this was disputed. The Panchen Lamas have claimed otherwise as have other Tibetan sects. The Mongols disputed the Fifth's claims. The problem with the Dalai Lama is that he claims a lot of things and I am dubious. If you want to remove the bit about modern science I will not object, but it is questionable the degree to which he says things for a Western audience. The problem with the Dalai Lama's claims for autonomy is that the degree of pwoer exercised by China would be less than the British Royals over Canada. This is in fact independence under a different name. He does not want any PLA soldiers in Tibet. Despite the claims made in the article he insists on Tibet's right to conduct its own foreign policy. So by having its own Foreign policy and making Tibet "a zone of peace" in effect what he wants in independence as those two area would not really be under Chinese control or even influence. The Dalai Lama is, well I don't want to sound pro-Chinese, tricky with words sometimes. Read the Strassbourg Plan. Lao Wai 08:42, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Dunganstown
It could be Dún Ceanainn, which I found at Irish Wikipedia under the Contae Loch Garman (County Wexford) article, as a "non-existant" article length. I'll find out more when I get home from work. I get all the information from a number of different sources. ℬ astique▼ talk 21:17, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Lapsed Pacifist
Please come help me out in the Tibet article. Lapsed has put Physicians for Human Rights into the "neutral" section, which I originally intended for NPOV sites like Haiwei's Timeline, and apolitical organizations like the Tibetan Support Programme. The link should belong in the section critical of the PRC.

I organized the links this way originally because I wanted to keep the three views separate. Now Lapsed is mixing them up. Worse, he's basically pushing his POV in, since now a "critical" link is mixed in (at the top!) as a "neutral" one. Read the link yourself, especially the tone it takes... it was written about six months after the Tiananmen Square massacre, and is pretty outdated: it talks about a curfew in Lhasa that is "still in place".... which was lifted in May 1990, another five months after the article was written.

In general, Lapsed Pacifist has been nothing but a POV pusher ever since his arrival. I know that you share his views, and I respect and appreciate this; what I appreciate even more though is your respect for NPOV. And it's Lapsed Pacifist's complete lack of respect for NPOV that annoys me greatly. What do you think should be done? -- ran (talk) 04:05, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * Well... not sure if you reverted before or after my message, but thanks nonetheless. =) -- ran (talk) 04:07, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

And now Lapsed is once again trying to sneak critical links into a neutral section by starting a new heading under "Human Rights". This way he can put critical links (i.e. his POV) under a heading that seems neutral. -- ran (talk) 17:53, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * Regarding your comments on Talk:Pinyin... I've taken a look at Lapsed edits on those pages, and they seemed OK so far. Frankly speaking, right now I'm taking a break from Tibet-related topics.... My goal has always been to ensure that the Chinese and English Wikipedias treat Tibet-related topics in the same way, especially the way they describe the different viewpoints, but this idealistic goal of "Perfect NPOV" seems to be impossible to accomplish... ah well. Maybe in a couple of days I'll try again. =) -- ran (talk) 20:47, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

 * Ran, I was blocked for the past 24 hours because of violating the 3RR rule on Schnorrer. I think I was supposed to be unblocked by now, but I'm not. Can you please help me out here? --Hottentot

 * Never mind, I've been unblocked. --Hottentot

Tara (Buddhist)
I notice all my additions to the article have been deleted. None of it was copied from other web sites. I have a Master Degree in Buddhist Studies from Naropa University 1997, and the article was written after months of research as a paper for that program. I may be a newbie to wickipedia, but I am astonished to see a whole article wiped out by someone else just on the claim that I copied it from other web sites. This is not true.

There are certain facts about Tara, that are common knowledge to anyone who had studied Tibetan Buddhism. You can say Tara is a Bodhisattva of compassion in so may ways but that does not mean you are copying from other web sites. Jlpinkme.

Hi Hottentot,

I notice all my additions to the article have been deleted. None of it was copied from other web sites. I have a Master Degree in Buddhist Studies from Naropa University 1997, and the article was written after months of research as a paper for that program. I may be a newbie to wickipedia, but I am astonished to see a whole article wiped out by someone else just on the claim that I copied it from other web sites. This is not true.

There are certain facts about Tara, that are common knowledge to anyone who had studied Tibetan Buddhism. You can say Tara is a Bodhisattva of compassion in so may ways but that does not mean you are copying from other web sites. Jlpinkme.
 * I have switched it back. Sooooo sorry about that! --Hottentot

Physicians for Human Rights
I never thought you had. There's no indication that this group is interested in anything other than human rights, not real autonomy, independence, nothing political. Anyone clicking that link right now would be doing so assuming these people are against Chinese control of Tibet and would be prejudging them on that basis.

Lapsed Pacifist 04:35, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

I suggest you open a line of communication with User: Ran. I'm finding that when I reach a compromise with one of you, the other objects.

Lapsed Pacifist 07:23, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

further notes on Tara (Buddhist)
Hi Hottentot,

Okay, I noticed all the edits are restored. Thanks.

All that was added I can verify was written by myself. I may have quoted from other sources, but they were all in quotes, and I cited the author or work also. My understanding of fair use is that in an article or review you can quote say, a paragraph, as long as you cite it, or attribute it to another author. Thus, I suppose even something that becomes a Wikipedia article might be quoted on another web site or in a published paper, but there is the understanding of fair use.

Meanwhile I saw my addition as just sort of a basic introduction to Tara, within Buddhism. In the future I suppose people will add to it, which is okay by me. The truth is there are actually only a few books just on the subject of Tara in the west.I suppose I might expand on it at some point, but I want to make sure what I add is accurate. Also my paper was read by my professor who had a Doctorate in Buddhist studies, and it passed muster with her, so I think it does give a fair introduction to the subject.

The article could use maybe 3 subheadings, but I was not sure how to do that.But again, aside from the quotes, all else is a original summation put together after much reading and study.

My flag drawings
Well, if you wish to know, every image I drew with my own hand are released into the Public Domain once I upload them. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:03, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, I guess you forgot about the one I was looking at. (Flag of Mongolia) which you labeled as PD-Flag. --Hottentot

copyvio
About the copyvio you reinserted into the Dalai-Lama-Biography: if you have contacted the copyright-holder, please add your comment here:. Also please add the permission to the description page. Thank you.--Fenice 18:06, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Houston info box and picture
I spent two hours correcting and customizing the new info box for a purpose. Why did you change it to the new format in the first place anyway? I was aware about the new format using the template, but I did not change it because I like the old customized version that I helped made and spent a lot of time figuring it out! What was wrong with the old customized info box? It had the same information with the exception of the style, color, and it had the picture included in there. I am sure you noticed it was more customized since it wasn't in template form anymore once you went back and changed some stuff so it could look like the original version from the template. It is now even a little more customized now if you bother to look at the Houston page again. There are more fields now than the template version. I don't like the template version and most people customize their own anyway. I appreciate your change and figure that you spent some time putting in the information so that is why I did not change it back to the old version. Instead, I customized it by adding more fields, changed wordings, and other small elements.

As for the Houston picture, it is PD! I got it off of this website while I searched on Yahoo for images and the user explicitly said it is free use to anyone. It didn't have a copyright and it wasn't elligibe for it. Don't even try to lecture me about what a copyright is. I know what it is and all the rules about it. Since I am an accounting major (Bachelor of Business Administration), I have learned copyright laws to the fullest extent in one of my accounting classes.

Stop giving me a hard time by uncustomizing the info box, changing its location, and changing the tag for the picture repeatedly. You never bother to edit anything with the Houston article in the past and now you jump in and give me a hard time. Also, the location of the info box you had originally and changed back broke two section lines of the article as I am using a 1024 X 768 monitor screen size.

If you are going to respond to this message, please do it on either my talk page or the Houston talk page as I do not "watch" people's talk pages and their images that they either made themselves or uploaded from a public domain. UH Collegian 11:25, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I changed it back because the current position you put the information box breakes two (2) section lines causing section number 2 of the article to have a space. Why do you care so much about the Houston article anyway? You have never edited any Texas articles and now you want to start an edit/revert war with me. Also, answer me why you got rid of the old information box. I did it that way to have a picture within the information box. UH Collegian 17:52, 13 July 2005 (UTC)3

 * Also, the information box has always been on top of the page. If you look at other cities, they have theirs at the top of the page as well. Please respond to why you got rid of the old information box that I customized with a picture in it. UH Collegian 17:58, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Mongour
The fact that the Dalai Lama is from a Mongour family is very widely known. His village was Mongour. His native language is Mongour. Consider for a moment the history of his older brother's career (i.e. a Mongolian professor at Indiana). It is rather common for Dalai Lama's to be picked from regional minorities, the fourth was a Mongol and the 6th a Mönpo.

Now, the question of whether the Dalai Lama is a Tibetan... well of course he is, he is after all the Dalai Lama.

Mongour is a divergent Mongolian dialect. The Mongours have been Tibetan buddhist since at least the 16th century.

Houston, Texas
I've asked a question of you on the article's talk page. Can you come take a gander? Thanks. · Katefan0(scribble) 18:41, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

What is your problem Hottentot? Why must you start an edit war? You never answer my questions from the above posts. If you don't stop your edit war and causing problems on the Houston page, you will be banned.

Since you have never taken interest in editing Texas articles in the past, why now? What was wrong with the old information box anyway? You can respond here on your talk page. UH Collegian 23:07, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

 * The flag and seal have been that size, even before I start editing the Houston article. You still have NOT answered my questions. Why is so important to you? Are you even from Texas? UH Collegian 23:11, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Normal size? How is your size normal and mine is not? That is subjective. There is no standard size. UH Collegian 23:12, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

 * San Antonio uses a different template. That template uses 100px for both flag and seal. You still have not answered my questions to why you changed the template in the first place. Hey, at least I kept the new version didn't I? UH Collegian 23:19, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay, Chicago's template is big as well and the seal is at 150px. Why don't you go change their template and format as well. While you are at it, change San Antonio's template to a different one as well. Can you argue over at Chicago why they should change their customized template? UH Collegian 23:29, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Do you agree that most infobox at other cities are at the top of the page with the lead section? If you have time, you should change San Antonio's infobox as well. You said "normal" size. Are you aware that there are at least 2 infobox template on here. Both have different sizes. Why do you care so much if all of the infobox are the same size? What is your objection on having both at 150px since the width of the infobox will still be the same. Setting it at 110 and 120px just leave white spaces in between. Again, I would like a response. UH Collegian 23:41, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I will not change the image size if you stop changing the Downtown Houston picture. UH Collegian 00:14, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay, I hope we won't have another transaction after this. I will put up a source when I find that picture again searching online. I only upload pics that are PD or free use. UH Collegian 00:22, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Quaggas
Why hello! I've come across that user page a few times, but I didn't know it was you. I'm glad there are other Quagga fans out there! Happy Editing and thanks for your many contributions!

Irish town information
—ℬ astique▼ talk 14:27, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) For coordinates and altitude, I go here: Falling Rain Genomics.  Be warned, it's not 100% accurate.
 * 2) This is where I get population figures: Central Statistics Office Ireland.
 * 3) This is 1975 Irish statute that deals with Irish naming. Doesn't have everything but it certainy encompasses a lot of town names:  I.R. Uimh. 133/1975: AN tORDÚ LOGAINMNEACHA (FOIRMEACHA GAEILGE)
 * 4) Convert GPS to Irish grid here: Ordnance Survey Ireland

White Dawg
Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. If there is credible evidence that White Dawg is a 45 year old rapper, please WP:CITE a valid external source. Otherwise, it will be removed as per the official policy regarding no original research. Hall Monitor 22:31, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

WP:RM
I have made some format changes to your entry on WP:RM. Please read the guidelines on WP:RM to make sure that all the steps needed for a requested move have been completed. Philip Baird Shearer 18:10, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
 * What to do on the talk page
 * What to do on this Requested moves page

Taiwan edit war
Hi, thanks for your help so far in keeping the Taiwan article NPOV. I've done a few searches on the anon user who keeps reverting back to the POV edit and confirmed that all the IP's originate from the same Australian ISP, making it likely that we're dealing with a single user using multiple sockpuppets to get around the 3 revert rule. Normally I am reluctant to report something like this as vandalism, however the anon user doesn't seem to have responded to any efforts at contact. Just wondering if you believe it is time to start issuing warnings and reporting this in? Thanks. -Loren 02:22, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I've left another message on the talk page of one of the user's sockpuppets requesting that he/she explain his/her edits and warning him/her of violation of the 3 revert rule. Now I guess we wait and see what happens, if there's no response and the reverts continue I'll report it in. -Loren 03:21, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

I see you have become involved in the whole GrandCru vandalism thing. I think it's fair to warn you that getting in his way repeatedly may cause him to start harassing you constantly. Me, I'm already on his shit list apparently so I might as well continue. ;) -Loren 06:30, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah I think it's kind of sad how it all started from an edit war that got out of control between User:GrandCru and User:Bobbybuilder. Both of them were apparently very uncompromising in their viewpoints and it got rather ugly. Some vandalism occured and someone tried to impersonate BobbyBuilder and some other guy. GrandCru got blamed and banned for it though he still denies it. Anyhow, GrandCru started going on a harassment jihad against BobbyBuilder and one of the admins who banned him. I got involved when he/she started defacing a bunch of pages that I was watching so I ended up reverting a bunch of them and documenting his sockpuppets. Tried to talk him out of doing this but obviously had no success. Now I suppose he has fixated on me as being a (to paraphrase him) "a Queerio eating commie" or something like that. Anyhow, thanks for the help. :)-Loren 06:41, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Re::
 * Just called it in . -Loren 22:25, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Odd thing is, the edits made by the anon in question are completely self contradictory. In one he makes it look as if the ROC runs all of Mainland China and Taiwan. On the Taiwan article he portrays a seperate Taiwan with no mention of the ROC but with the ROC flag and state symbols. -Loren 22:41, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Image:Saami Flag
Could you specify what exactly is inaccurate with the flag. Proportions? Colors? If it isn't correct we have to replace it with another one. --Chlämens 17:22, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes thanks
hi, I felt really nice to get a message from you. I could not keep my promise to add few words to Bihar County, but yoy are really doing a great service by creating a table for India's Bihar. I will collect the information, and try to update. Thanks for your support. --Bhadani 15:14, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Warn you for the first time
You have no right to delete my words in a discussion page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tibet. I will ask for forbiding your editing if you will do it again! --129.7.248.159 00:30, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Watch out for the 3rr
Watch out for the 3RR over at Tibet etc...I've mentioned it to the anon, but it might come in handy for you (as long as you don't overstep it yourself, of course). -Splash 00:38, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I do not have the faintest idea which is the more appropriate article for it. But I generally trust registered users over an anon. If you need to, report it either at WP:AN/3 or WP:AIAV. If one is geographically correct, I don't mind helping out but my ignorance of the topic is overwhelming. -Splash 00:45, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Please notice that both you and the anon at the IP address 129.7.248.159 have violated the 3RR at Tibet. I would also like to point out that, although the anon is trying to turn the article into a redirect, he is doing it because he apparently honestly believes that this is the right thing to do.  That being the case, his action is not vandalism technically.  I have not blocked the anon for this because of the fact that he is new to the project and only got a fair warning after he reverted the article for the 4th time.  You get the same benefit, of course.  But please, remember that edit summaries are not suited for discussing differences of opinion.  The anon has been warned not to revert the article again until the issue is resolved.  Please, do the same.  Regards, Redux 04:14, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi. The article seems to have stabilized.  You also seem to have received peer support in its talk page.  Sorry about the "warning" message, it's just that sometimes things that start off small and are seemingly easy to resolve can escalate rather quickly, and before you know it, you're caught in a revert war that could have been avoided.  Anyways, good news about the article.  Keep up the good work!  Regards, Redux 05:22, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

PLEASE VOTE
Erdini Qoigyijabu, 11th Panchen Lama is listed for deletion. The title listed as 11th Panchen Lama is incorrect and misleading. I noticed that you had made some contributions on the Tibet related articles and could use a vote. Your opinion (either way) would add some weight. Thanks.--Biff Dong 00:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

please don't delete images unless they are absolutely horrendous or unrelated to the article
hey, those images took a while to obtain. for someone who has never been to a country, they tell us about the people (who they are) and the traditional dress. please don't delete just because you think the people are ugly.Kennethtennyson 04:43, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Tamil god and others--please follow WP:CSD
Hottentot, this has been mentioned to you before: you are not applying the Speedy Delete policy correctly. Thanks, Owen× ☎  00:58, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
 * An article with contents covered elsewhere is not a candidate for CSD. Please use the "merge" template to merge with the original article, or if it is a complete duplication, change the contents to a redirect.
 * The "deletebecause" tag should be added on top of the article, not replacing it.
 * Please use the "Edit summary", especially when blanking out a whole article.

 * OwenX,
 * You don't understand. First off, there's no point in merging the article because it's COMPLETE DUPLICTE. The reason why we shouldn't merge because it has a bad title. There are many Tamil gods! This DOES meet criteria because it is vandalism by some anon. --Hottentot

 * I have no problem having these articles deleted! However, I have to insist we do this according to Wikipedia policies. Add the deletebecause tag to the article, and let the admins see the content they're about to delete. Otherwise, you're just becoming a vandal yourself. Unless you find copyright violation, don't blank out articles. Owen×  ☎  01:09, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you! That "Category:Tamil god" was especially ridiculous, I hope it's deleted soon. At least that anon joker who posted those things hasn't been around in two days... I'll keep an eye out for him in case he comes back with more nonsense. Cheers! Owen× ☎  01:25, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

CSD
Not everything that should be deleted is a candidate for speedy deletion candidate, see WP:CSD for the full list of criteria. Other redirects go to WP:RfD. --fvw *  04:24, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * That goes for Template:SouthAfricaImages too. --fvw *  00:04, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Why are you reverting my "External Links"
Hottentot, please explain your reasoning behind your reversions. It could be considered vandalism.

 * The truth the mainland Chinese government doesn't want you to know...

You can respond on my talk page like a civilized person, please...--FT in Leeds 00:45, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

 * You never explained why you are reverting the article in every instance. Perhaps you hold another point of view?  At any rate, what you are doing is considered vandalism.  I am simply placing a link in the appropriate section, to a credible news source (The BBC) --FT in Leeds 00:51, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

 * It doesn't matter if the article is one-sided; it is still from a credible news source. Additionally, and if you would actually read the articles instead of doing a blanket revert, is that some articles have sections dilineated between sides.  If you would have paid careful attention, I placed the link in the appropriate section.--FT in Leeds 00:55, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

 * What supreme being gave you the right to decide which articles I can add the link to. I have a right to add the link to every article that it pertains to.  It's Tibet related, Buddhist related, Lama related, Panchen Lama related, Dalai Lama related, and related to the specific names given to the Panchen lamas.  Also, if you don't like the title, you are free to change it, but don't just blanket revert.  What you are doing is extremely rude.--FT in Leeds 01:00, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

 * How would you feel if I kept reverting your edits!? Take a minute to think about it. --FT in Leeds 01:03, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Ok, now I see why you have taken Communist China's point of view. Just because you disagree with BBC's portrayal of mainland China, you shouldn't just blanket revert all my edits. --FT in Leeds 02:06, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, Hottentot, if you agree with the article, I'm sure you see that it is a actually quite neutral. The article just tells the story, it doesn't criticize, insult, or paint anything except the pure truth.--FT in Leeds 02:29, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Still Reverting!?
Why are you like that!?--FT in Leeds 03:08, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Bangla/Bengali
Bengali is the traditional English spelling. In most cases, for example, in most uses by Bangladesh Government and also Bangla Academy and other insititutions, "Bangla" is preferred over "Bengali". Some international entities also are beginning to use "Bangla" (See Voice of America's Bangla service page ). So, I am not sure that the replacement of Bengali for Bangla is the correct way to go in wikipedia. Thanks. --Ragib 03:15, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Uluru /Ayers Rock
Redirection of an article that so many have worked on without discussion seems to be a dubious idea. I propose to raise the subject at the Australian Wikipedians' noticeboard. Regards--AYArktos 00:23, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Please explain why you keep moving Uluru to Ayres Rock.--nixie 01:29, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually there are more google hits for Uluru than Ayres Rock, Uluru is also the official name, and the name used most commonly in Australia. Please discuss significant page moves on the talk page of the article.--nixie 01:36, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Hottentot, the issue of the appropriate name for Australian landmarks such as Uluru/Ayers Rock and Kata Tjuta/The Olgas is a sensitive one that has been debated for a number of years. Wikipedia has no role to play in that debate. It is appropriate that Wikipedia sidestep the debate by adopting the official name. May I ask that you check the official name at the Gazetteer of Australia (link) before renaming any other articles? Snottygobble | Talk 02:04, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I beg your pardon; I am in error. A dual naming policy has been adopted.  The official name of Uluru/Ayers Rock is literally "Uluru/Ayers Rock".  Similarly, the official name of Kata Tjuta appears to be "Kata Tjuta/Mount Olga".  Snottygobble | Talk 02:19, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Parody section in Jacques Chirac's article
I reinstated the parody section in Jacques Chirac's article. This may seem weird in some foreign countries, but the French enjoy caricatures of political personalities, including the president. The Guignols have considerable impact on popular culture (there are phrases that I know weren't widely used that have become popular because they appeared repeatedly in that show, etc.). The comparison to George W. Bush's article may not be much relevant: I don't know of any major caricature of George W. Bush, except the cowboy hat in Doonesbury. David.Monniaux 06:47, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Also, please do not tag this as "minor". Sam Hocevar 16:50, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

62.252.59.89's Complaints
This is a complaint from a frequent user of Wikipedia. Please stop editing articles when it's unneccessary. I have had enough of reading the complaints. Thanks.
 * 62.252.59.89, can you try to be more specific in saying that I should not edit articles? What did I do to offend you? --Hottentot

Do not remove CD Logo.
Please do not replace Wikipedia pages with blank content. Blank pages are harmful to Wikipedia because they have a tendency to confuse readers. If it is a duplicate article, please redirect it to an appropriate existing page. If the page has been vandalised, please revert it to the last legitimate version. If you feel that the content of a page is inappropriate, please edit the page and replace it with appropriate content. If you believe there is no hope for the page, please see the deletion policy for how to proceed. Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia! .:: Imdaking ::.  Tlk 02:56:06, 2005-09-10 (UTC)

Do not remove CD Logo.
Please do not replace Wikipedia pages with blank content. Blank pages are harmful to Wikipedia because they have a tendency to confuse readers. If it is a duplicate article, please redirect it to an appropriate existing page. If the page has been vandalised, please revert it to the last legitimate version. If you feel that the content of a page is inappropriate, please edit the page and replace it with appropriate content. If you believe there is no hope for the page, please see the deletion policy for how to proceed. Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia! .:: Imdaking ::.  Tlk 02:56:46, 2005-09-10 (UTC)

Re: CD Image
I am fine where the image is at. I won't move it. I just wanted to ask, Why do you dislike it? I think this image should be there because it is a part of it,Every disc you buy (either an Album or blank)has this Logo, even if you think its stupid. .:: Imdaking ::.  Bow ]] 06:48, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:AndresBonifacio.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:AndresBonifacio.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then there needs to be an argument why we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then it needs to be specified where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the GFDL-self tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, consider reading fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, consider checking that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Thue | talk 17:16, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Nepal
Sadly, I'm currently too busy to cleanup that page. It doesn't look to bad to me though. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  08:02, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Flags of non-sovereign nations
Hello,

I explained why I want to remove Burgundy from the page. Three more are coming. Could you justify your point on the page ?

Thanks. Poppypetty 09:27, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

 * templates substituted by a bot as per Template substitution Pegasusbot 04:45, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 1


text:
Frank Steele

Harold Franklin Steele (March 9, 1905 – December 3, 1992) was a Canadian ice hockey right winger who played in one National Hockey League game for the Detroit Falcons during the 1930–31 NHL season. He played on December 25, 1930, against the Toronto Maple Leafs, recording 2 penalty minutes. The rest of his career, which lasted from 1927 to 1940, was spent in the minor leagues, primarily in the International Hockey League. Steele died in Hollywood, Florida, in 1992.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Frank Steele


text: Template:WikiProject Cycling user

title: Template:WikiProject Cycling user


text:
Bud Stefanski

Stanley Michael "Bud" Stefanski (born April 28, 1955) is a Canadian former professional ice hockey centre who played in one National Hockey League game for the New York Rangers during the 1977–78 NHL season. He is also a former head coach of the Ontario Hockey League's Barrie Colts and Toronto St. Michael's Majors. His son-in-law is Cory Stillman and his grandchildren are Riley Stillman and Chase Stillman.

title: Bud Stefanski


text:
Phil Stein

Philip John Stein (September 13, 1913 – April 4, 1987) was a professional ice hockey goaltender who played in one National Hockey League game for the Toronto Maple Leafs during the 1939–40 season, on January 18, 1940 against the Detroit Red Wings. The rest of his career, which lasted from 1933 to 1943, was spent in various minor leagues.

title: Phil Stein


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Schaus

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. --Angr/undefined 19:52, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Schaus
vanity. Not quite nn-bio as I read it, because that says a person, not several. --Trovatore 05:01, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, and because it does assert that they're "prestigous". --Trovatore 05:04, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - There is a place for serious articles about the etymology of popular surnames (i.e. Smith (surname), but I don't think this is such an article. -Eisnel 06:06, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The place for article on the etymologies of words, names or otherwise, is Wiktionary, which will take all the etymology that editors have to give. See Deletion policy/names and surnames.  Furthermore: The article at hand includes no etymology, notice.  Don't confuse etymology of a family name with the genealogy of the people who have that family name. Uncle G 13:28, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete Clever attempt to circumvent the dictates of speedy removal, but the last line qualifies it surely. Dottore So 11:03, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete Justin Bacon 00:49, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Schaus


text: User talk:69.199.242.63

title: User talk:69.199.242.63


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Awkward Squad Project

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete --Angr/undefined 19:55, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

The Awkward Squad Project
According to the results of a Google search, the "Awkward Squad Project" exists only on Wikipedia. It appears to be a politically-motivated project that belongs more properly on a web hosting service. We already have Awkward Squad. Delete. Joel7687 05:01, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Article is not about anything and claims to in fact be a "diary project". Wikipedia is not a blog. I'm almost tempted to speedy this as "patent nonsense". Sjakkalle (Check!)  10:36, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-encyclopedic and open a blogspot account...--Isotope23 15:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. MCB 06:26, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:Adam Cullen

Syntax
He portrayed the killer of the 1986 killers of Anita Cobby

He what? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PiCo (talk • contribs).

 * You should change it if you find a problem with it :) Be bold —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cfitzart (talk • contribs).

Fair use rationale for Image:Hookythecripple.jpg
Image:Hookythecripple.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hookythecripple.jpg
Image:Hookythecripple.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 22:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Adam Cullen


text: User talk:154.5.118.49

title: User talk:154.5.118.49


text:
Delta Force: Task Force Dagger

Delta Force: Task Force Dagger is a first-person shooter video game developed by Zombie Studios and published by NovaLogic. It's a stand-alone expansion pack to Delta Force: Land Warrior. It is set in Afghanistan in 2002 after United States invasion of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan in 2001.

Gameplay
Task Force Dagger is based on the same engine as the previous Delta Force title, Land Warrior, and retains all of its gameplay mechanics. The largest difference is that the player can now choose to control a character from either one of ten available special operation units, including SEAL Team Six, the Green Berets and the Special Air Service. All of these have individual advantages and disadvantages, such as some operatives being formidable snipers while others are able to sustain larger amounts of damage. However, mechanically these factions are identical to the different playable Delta Force operatives available in Land Warrior. Unlike the earlier games, Task Force Dagger usually sends the player on missions alone, without any support from AI-controlled friendly soldiers.

Like all earlier Delta Force titles, Task Force Dagger has a larger focus on realism than is common in the first person shooter genre. Most of the gameplay takes place in large outdoor environments with combat distances of up to several hundred meters, and bullet ballistics have to be taken into account when aiming at distant targets. Typically for the series, characters usually die from a single hit. Like Land Warrior, Task Force Dagger also prominently features combat in narrow tunnels.

As before, the missions are comparably open-ended, only requiring the player to fulfill specific objectives while allowing him to maneuver freely on the maps. Objectives usually involve eliminating all hostile presence in an area or destroying military equipment such as SCUD launchers and ammunition depots. Before each mission the player is able to customise their weapon loadout but can later replace weapons with ones dropped by killed characters or access weapons caches to re-equip himself on-mission. Despite being a stand-alone expansion, the game almost features just as many levels as its parent game, Land Warrior, with 25 missions in total, not counting the introductory tutorial.

Map editor
The game package includes a Mission Editor that gives the player the ability to create their own singleplayer or multiplayer maps for other users to play in.

Reception
The game received "mixed" reviews according to video game review aggregator Metacritic.

Daniel Morris for PC Gamer reviewed Task Force Dagger, remarking on the dull AI, dated graphics, and ended his review stating, "But I just don’t understand how you can plop down the money for Task Force Dagger when there are so many better games in this niche of the genre."

title: Delta Force: Task Force Dagger


text:
Talk:Union suit

Origin?
what is the origin of the union suit? does anyone have any idea why a union suit is called such? My roommate and i have had a somewhat major fight over the issue. I have aruged the Union suit is called such because it unites both the top and the bottom, it is both a shirt and pants. My roommate who owns a union suit and champions wearing is properly, not undergarment necessary or even desired, argues that the union army in the civil war began the tradition and that is where the name comes from. If anyone has any informaion it would be greatly appreciated and will bring much needed peace to my home. In all reality, we both made up or theories for the naming of the suit and are involved in a pride war for who is right.

"In 1891, the Northwestern Knitting Company introduced another breakthrough product, the one-piece, full-length union suit seen in thousands of period films and photos. The union suit, also known as long johns, enjoyed great success for many years and later became standard issue for U.S. soldiers in World War I." from - http://www.premiumwear.com/content.m/about/history

AND

"The Industrial Revolution with the invention of water-powered spinning machines and the ¹cotton gin¹ made cotton fabrics widely available and saw the beginning of mass-produced underwear. For the first time, people began buying undergarments in stores rather than making them at home. The standard undergarment of this period for men, women, and children was the Œunion suit¹, which provided coverage from the wrists to the ankles. The union suits of the era were usually made of knitted material and included a drop flap in the back to ease visits to the toilet. Because the top and bottom were united as a one-piece garment it received the name Œunion suit¹. Hanes opened several mills producing 'union suits'. Originally made with ankle length legs and long sleeves, later versions were available in knee length versions with or without sleeves.

The name 'Long Johns', long skin-tight underpants, was actually first used for the long underwear issued to American soldiers during World War Two. The name is derived from the old boxing gear worn by John L. Sullivan, who was a boxer in the late 1880s, the height of his career being 1882-92." from - http://manstouch.com/mensunderwear/historyofmensunderwear.html

I've a certain amount trouble believing that the same underwear was worn all winter. Underwear starts to smell really bad after a few days--after months it would be truly disgusting.

 * Well actually.. Sears, Roebuck and Company advertised its union suits for "year-round wear". This is according to Esquire's Encyclopedia of 20th century Men's Fashions, McGraw-Hill, 1973, Page 372, ISBN 0070554803 -- œ ™ 07:38, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * :) Neither "all winter" nor "year-round wear" mean you shouldn't take it off and wash it. Are we being silly, or what? OK, some people never washed anything at all, including themselves. Milkunderwood (talk) 02:30, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

The color red
Does anyone know when and why union suits were made in red? Mrsdoodlepunk 11:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

One plausible answer for the choice of red fabric is that, given the strong Christian culture of the mid-19th century, the original manufacturer may have looked to Proverbs 31. That chapter is a paean to the industrious wife, and in particular, verse 21 reads: "She is not afraid of the snow for her household, for all her household are clothed with scarlet." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wsparkman (talk • contribs) 10:39, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Red is actually the most popular color for union suits. Finding other colors has become difficult after Fruit of the Loom stopped making union suits about two years ago, as they were the only major manufacturer that had been creative with different color patterns over the past few years.

The general principle behind the Red union suit is quite simple. Typically when a person gets stuck out in the woods stripped down to nothing but their skivvies, it's obvious that they are in a bind of some sort. Producing union suits in red helps make this situation a little more obvious.

After all, the only thing that could catch more attention than a person running frantically through the woods in long underwear would be a person running frantically through the woods in bright red long underwear.

So basically it makes you more likely to be noticed by passersby in the event that you should wind up in some kind of jam.

Personally, I prefer grey and oatmeal colored union suits. Unfortunately, the only colors I can find these days are red, white, and black.

[Poster appears to be: Revision as of 07:59, 1 October 2007; 24.13.244.119 (talk). Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 18:44, 22 October 2014 (UTC)]

 * Perhaps the first manufacturer had a surplus of red fabric to use up? Perhaps red showed soiling less prominently than white? So, Anonymous Poster, without a citation for your comment, we can speculate endlessly. Please provide your reference. Thank You, Wordreader (talk) 18:34, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Short Sleeve/Short Leg Version?
Has anyone else heard of this style? I remember hearing about when I was a kid, but i haven't see or heard of them since.

70.88.213.74 (talk) 20:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

 * There are several images of short-sleeve/short-leg union suits in different styles online. I had a relative who throughout the first half of the 20th C always wore an unusual style of union suit that, at least in later years, he had to order from Brooks Brothers as the only supplier. This was a thin lightweight cotton broadcloth garment, sleeveless rather than short-sleeved, but not ribbed like an old-fashioned knitted "wife-beater". The legs came to about mid-thigh. It had no waist, but fit loosely in a straight line from armpits to where the legs started and flared slightly like standard boxer shorts. The neckline was curved and low, roughly at the level of the wearer's armpits. The whole thing buttoned from neckline to crotch, with buttons somewhat farther apart than on a dress shirt, and the flap in back buttoned at the corners. Apparently Brooks Brothers removed this style from their catalog around 1950. Milkunderwood (talk) 05:39, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

That sounds more like they were wearing a 1930s men's one piece bathing suit as underwear than a traditional union suit.--Mr. 123453334 (talk) 08:17, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Wear all winter without removing?
Regarding the citation needed tag for the sentence:

"It was not uncommon until the mid-1900s for rural men to wear the same union suit continuously all week, or even all winter.[citation needed]"

I found this very interesting mention in a book called Life Is But a Dream by Holly Irons where two characters discuss union suits, but unfortunately it's fiction so it cannot be used as a reference. Page 372 is a really fun read how these characters react to the union suit, you can read it a this link. -- œ ™ 07:38, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Rather unappealing illustration
The image at the top of the article looks like the suit is stained around the private areas ... yuck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.79.35.227 (talk) 20:42, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes, it does! Yours, Wordreader (talk) 18:36, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

((Citations needed))
Authors, you have neglected to add your references. Please do so. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 18:47, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Question about... that part
Okay, so it has a handy dump-flap at the back, but... don't most people also urinate when they defecate? It seems like there's no provision for either gender to do this. And since we pee more often than we crap, wouldn't access for the former be more useful? How would one wear the suit while using the toilet?

And more importantly, why has it taken over a century for somebody to ask this question? Surely somebody noticed! Is there some system?

188.29.164.197 (talk) 04:03, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

As a regular union suit wearer I can tell you, when you sit to take care of your business your rear extends out of the union suit bringing your front with it, occasionally requiring a little push of the hand depending on the cut. I imagine women would have as easy or easier time urinating & defecating, considering the equipment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:8017:1F00:8D18:900B:45D0:D0DC (talk) 21:23, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

The front is button down all the way to the crotch so you just unbutton the lower buttons when you have to stand up and go.--Mr. 123453334 (talk) 08:21, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Union suit