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Talk:Basti division

Basti division
Basti division is an administrative division in Uttar Pradesh state. Basti city is the headquarters of this division. Basti, Siddharthnagar and Sant Kabir Nagar districts are the parts of Basti division. And Basti is not carved out from Gorakhpur division. Basti is a separate division and Gorakhpur is a separate division in Uttar Pradesh. Ayodhya-prayagraj (talk) 16:17, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Basti division


text:
Talk:The Cult of Ray

Fair use rationale for Image:Fbray.jpg
Image:Fbray.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Done. --jh51681 21:36, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Shazeb Andleeb redirection page
Could some knowledgeable Wikipedian please make a redirection page so that anyone who searches for "Shazeb Andleeb" lands here? Martin Rundkvist (talk) 16:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. The page was previously deleted as someone had set it up as a memorial page.  It should be OK as just a redirect.  In future, FYI, type Shazeb Andleeb in the search box, click go and it will come up in red with a question if you want to create the page.  Click on it, and then type #REDIRECT The Cult of Ray in the text area (not in bold and The Cult of Ray needs to be linked ) and hit save.  Done.  S'easy peasy. Tuffle (talk) 08:32, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:The Cult of Ray


text:
Proton Synchrotron

The Proton Synchrotron (PS, sometimes also referred to as CPS ) is a particle accelerator at CERN. It is CERN's first synchrotron, beginning its operation in 1959. For a brief period the PS was the world's highest energy particle accelerator. It has since served as a pre-accelerator for the Intersecting Storage Rings (ISR) and the Super Proton Synchrotron (SPS), and is currently part of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) accelerator complex. In addition to protons, PS has accelerated alpha particles, oxygen and sulfur nuclei, electrons, positrons, and antiprotons.

Today, the PS is part of CERN's accelerator complex. It accelerates protons for the LHC as well as a number of other experimental facilities at CERN. Using a negative hydrogen ion source, the ions are first accelerated to the energy of 160 MeV in the linear accelerator Linac 4. The hydrogen ion is then stripped of both electrons, leaving only the nucleus containing one proton, which is injected into the Proton Synchrotron Booster (PSB), which accelerates the protons to 2 GeV, followed by the PS, which pushes the beam to 25 GeV. The protons are then sent to the Super Proton Synchrotron, and accelerated to 450 GeV before they are injected into the LHC. The PS also accelerates heavy ions from the Low Energy Ion Ring (LEIR) at an energy of 72 MeV, for collisions in the LHC.

Background
The synchrotron (as in Proton Synchrotron) is a type of cyclic particle accelerator, descended from the cyclotron, in which the accelerating particle beam travels around a fixed path. The magnetic field which bends the particle beam into its fixed path increases with time, and is synchronized to the increasing energy of the particles. As the particles travels around the fixed circular path they will oscillate around their equilibrium orbit, a phenomenon called betatron oscillations.

In a conventional synchrotron the focusing of the circulating particles is achieved by weak focusing: the magnetic field that guides the particles around the fixed radius decreases slightly with radius, causing the orbits of the particles with slightly different positions to approximate each other. The amount of focusing in this way is not very great, and consequently the amplitudes of the betatron oscillations are large. Weak focusing requires a large vacuum chamber, and consequently big magnets. Most of the cost of a conventional synchrotron is the magnets. The PS was the first accelerator at CERN that made use of the alternating-gradient principle, also called strong focusing: quadrupole magnets are used to alternately focus horizontally and vertically many times around the circumference of the accelerator. The focusing of the particle can in theory become as strong as one wishes, and the amplitude of the betatron oscillations as small as desired. The net result is that you can reduce the cost of the magnets.

Preliminary studies
When early in the 1950s the plans for a European laboratory of particle physics began to take shape, two different accelerator projects emerged. One machine was to be of standard type, easy and relatively fast and cheap to build: the synchrocyclotron, achieving collisions at a center-of-mass energy of 600 MeV. The second device was a much more ambitious undertaking: an accelerator bigger than any other then existing, a synchrotron that could accelerate protons up to an energy of 10 GeV – the PS.

By May 1952 a design group was set up with Odd Dahl in charge. Other members of the group were among others Rolf Widerøe, Frank Kenneth Goward, and John Adams. After a visit to the Cosmotron at Brookhaven National Laboratory in the US, the group learnt of a new idea for making cheaper and higher energy machines: alternating-gradient focusing. The idea was so attractive that the study of a 10 GeV synchrotron was dropped, and a study of a machine implementing the new idea initiated. Using this principle a 30 GeV accelerator could be built for the same cost as a 10 GeV accelerator using weak focusing. However, the stronger focusing the higher a precision of alignment of magnets required. This proved a serious problem in the construction of the accelerator.

A second problem in the construction period was the machines behavior at an energy called "transition energy". At this point the relative increase in particle velocity changes from being greater to being smaller, causing the amplitude of the betatron oscillation to go to zero and loss of stability in the beam. This was solved by a jump, or a sudden shift in the acceleration, in which pulsed quadruples made the protons traverse the transition energy level much faster.

The PS was approved in October 1953, as a synchrotron of 25 GeV energy with a radius of 72 meter, and a budget of 120 million Swiss franc. The focusing strength chosen required a vacuum chamber of 12 cm width and 8 cm height, with magnets of about 4000 tonnes total mass. Dahl resigned as head of the project in October 1954 and was replaced by John Adams. By August 1959 the PS was ready for its first beam, and on 24 of November the machine reached a beam energy of 24 GeV.

1960–1976: Fixed-target and pre-accelerator to ISR

By the end of 1965 the PS was the center of a spider's web of beam lines: It supplied protons to the South Hall (Meyrin site) where an internal target produced five secondary beams, serving a neutrino experiment and a muon storage ring; the North Hall (Meyrin site) where two bubble chambers (80 cm hydrogen Saclay, heavy liquid CERN) were fed by an internal target; when the East Hall (Meyrin site) became available in 1963, protons from the PS hit an internal target producing a secondary beam filtered by electrostatic separators to the CERN 2 m bubble chamber and additional experiments.

Together with the construction of the Intersecting Storage Rings (ISR), an improvement program for the PS was decided in 1965, also making space for the Gargamelle and the Big European Bubble Chamber experiments. The injection energy of the PS was raised by constructing an 800 MeV four ring booster — the Proton Synchrotron Booster (PSB) — which became operational in 1972.

1976–1991: Pre-accelerator to SPS/Sp$\overline{p}$S and LEAR
In 1976 the Super Proton Synchrotron (SPS) became a new client of the PS. When SPS started to operate as a proton–antiproton collider — the Sp$\overline{p}$S — the PS had the double task of producing an intense 26 GeV/c proton beam for generating antiprotons at 3.5 GeV/c to be stored in the Antiproton Accumulator (AA), and then accelerating the antiprotons to 26 GeV/c for transfer to the SPS.

The linear accelerator, now serving the PSB, was replaced in 1978 by Linac 2, leading to an further increase in intensity. During this period acceleration of light ions entered the scene. Linac 1, which was replaced by Linac 2, was equipped to accelerate deuterons that were accelerated in the PS, and transferred to the ISR where they collided with protons or deuterons.

When the Low Energy Antiproton Ring (LEAR), for deceleration and storage of antiprotons, became operational in 1982, PS resumed the new role of an antiproton decelerator. It decelerated antiprotons from the AA to 180 MeV, and injected them into LEAR. During this period the PS complex truly earned its nickname of "versatile particle factory". Up to 1996, PS would regularly accelerate ions for SPS fixed-target experiments, protons for the East Hall or antiproton production at AA, decelerate protons for LEAR, and later accelerate electrons and positrons for the Large Electron–Positron Collider (LEP).

1991–2001: Pre-accelerator to LEP

To provide leptons to LEP, three more machines had to been added to the PS complex: LIL-V electron linear accelerator, the LIL-W electron and positron linear accelerator, and the EPA (Electron-Positron Accumulator) storage ring. A modest amount of additional hardware had to be added to modify PS from a 25 GeV proton synchrotron to a 3.5 GeV lepton synchrotron.

During this period the demand for heavier ions to be delivered as a primary beam to the SPS North experimental hall (Prévessin site) also increased. Both sulfur and oxygen ions were accelerated with great success.

2001–today: Pre-accelerator to LHC
After the end of operation as a LEP injector, the PS started a new period of operation in preparation as LHC injector and for new fixed-target experiments. New experiments started running in the East area, such as the CLOUD experiment. The PS complex was also remodeled when the AA area was replaced by the Antiproton Decelerator and its experimental area.

By increasing the energy of the PSB and the Linac 2, the PS achieved record intensities in 2000 and 2001. During the whole of 2005 PS was shut down: radiation damage had caused aging of the main magnets. The magnets, originally estimated to have a lifetime of less than 10 years, had exceeded the estimate by more than a factor of four, and went through a refurbishment program. The tunnel was emptied, magnets refurbished, and the machine realigned. In 2008 PS started operating as a pre-accelerator to the LHC. Simultaneously the ion operation changed: LEAR was converted into a storage ring — the Low Energy Ion Ring (LEIR) — and the PSB stopped being an ion injector.

Construction and operation
The PS is built in a tunnel, in which temperature is controlled to ± 1°. Around the circumference, 628 meters, there are 100 magnet units of 4.4 m nominal length, 80 short straight sectors of 1.6 m, and 20 straight sectors of 3 m. Sixteen long straight sections are equipped with acceleration cavities, 20 short ones with quadruple correction lenses, and 20 short ones with sets of sextuple and octuplet lenses. Other straight sections are reserved for beam observation stations and injection devices, targets, and ejection magnets.

As the alignment of the magnets is of paramount importance, the units are mounted on a free floating ring of concrete, 200 meters in diameter. As a further precaution, the concrete ring has steel pipes cast in it, where water passes through the ring to keep a constant temperature in the magnets.

Findings and discoveries
Using a neutrino beam produced by a proton beam from PS, the Gargamelle experiment discovered neutral currents in 1973.

title: Proton Synchrotron


text: Talk:Alfred Wallis

title: Talk:Alfred Wallis


text: User talk:195.194.74.140

title: User talk:195.194.74.140


text:
Corps de logis

In architecture, a corps de logis is the principal or main block, or central building of a mansion, country or manor house, castle, or palace. It contains the rooms of principal business, the state apartments and the ceremonial or formal entry.

The grandest and finest rooms within the corps de logis are often found not at grade level, but on the first or even the second floor above. This floor is often referred to as the Italian piano nobile, the French bel étage, or the German beletage.

The corps de logis is usually flanked by lower, secondary wings, such as the barchesse of Venetian villas. When the secondary wings form a three sided courtyard, the courtyard is known as the cour d'honneur, as opposed to a quadrangle when a fourth wing encloses it.

Examples of a corps de logis can be found in many of the most notable Renaissance, Baroque and Neoclassical civil buildings of Europe including the Palace of Versailles, Blenheim Palace, and the Palazzo Pitti.

title: Corps de logis


text:
William George Keith Elphinstone

Major-General William George Keith Elphinstone CB (26 January 1782 – 23 April 1842) was an officer of the British Army during the 19th century.

Early life and military career
He was born in Scotland in 1782, the son of William Fullerton-Elphinstone, who was a director of the East India Company, and nephew of Admiral George Keith Elphinstone, 1st Viscount Keith.

Elphinstone entered the British Army in 1804 as a lieutenant; he saw service throughout the Napoleonic Wars, rising to the rank of lieutenant-colonel by 1813, when he became commander of the 33rd Regiment of Foot, which he led at the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. For his actions at Waterloo, Elphinstone was made a Companion of the Bath, as well as a knight of the Dutch Military Order of William and of the Russian Order of Saint Anna 2nd class (6–18 August 1815). He left the regiment in 1822. After Elphinstone was promoted to colonel in 1825, he served for a time as aide-de-camp to King George IV.

In 1837 Elphinstone was effectively retired, as a long term half-pay officer who had not seen active-service since Waterloo. His increasing debts however led him to seek re-employment in the army.

First Anglo-Afghan War
Elphinstone was promoted to major-general in 1837. In 1840 he was, under the patronage of FitzRoy Somerset, Lord Raglan, appointed to command the British Army then occupying Kabul during the First Anglo-Afghan War. In Britain he had been socially acquainted with George Eden, Earl of Auckland and Governor-General of India. Eden had approved Elphinstone's appointment but was disturbed to discover that his state of health had markedly declined. In addition Elphinstone had no understanding of his new environment and appeared prejudiced against the Indian sepoys whom he was to command.

Confirmed in his appointment in December 1840, Elphinstone took command of the British garrison in Kabul, Afghanistan, numbering around 4,500 troops, of whom 690 were European and the rest Indian. The garrison also included 12,000 civilians, including soldiers' families and camp followers. He was elderly, indecisive, weak, and unwell, and proved himself utterly incompetent for the post. The leadership of Elphinstone is seen as a notorious example of how the ineptitude and indecisiveness of a senior officer could compromise the morale and effectiveness of a whole army (though already much depleted). Elphinstone completely failed to lead his soldiers, but fatally exerted enough authority to prevent any of his officers from exercising proper command in his place. His entire command was massacred during the British retreat from Kabul during January 1842.

Death
Elphinstone died as a captive in Afghanistan some months later. Present at his death was the Military Secretary George Lawrence, who while under no illusions as to Elphinstone's unsuitability for his command, commented "His kind, mild disposition and courteous detachment had made him esteemed by us all".

Elphinstone's body was dispatched with a small guard of Afghan soldiers to the British garrison at Jalalabad. Elphinstone's "faithful" batman Moore who had stayed with the General accompanied the body. En route, they were attacked by a band of tribesmen who stripped and abused the corpse until it was rescued by horsemen sent by the Afghan leader Akbar Khan. Eventually the body and Moore reached the garrison. Elphinstone was buried with military honours but in an unmarked grave, before the British finally abandoned the fortress.

title: William George Keith Elphinstone


text:
User:HighHopes/Talk Page

 Talk • AfD • CfD • TfD • RfA • VP • FAC • RC • Live RC • Signpost • Purge

  Monday, 29 July

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How this works: Post me anything you wish by clicking around about [ here ]. Or just edit this page and add your remarks near the bottom. Use headings to separate your comments and all that.

I hate it when users respond on their own talk pages (never worked out how the original correspondent is supposed to keep track of the conversation if they have left several messages with users who have adopted this irksome practice - add them all to their watchlist? Come off it...), so I'll reply on yours with the same subject heading and save you the effort of looking back here.

 ''' SPEAK TO ME! '''

title: User:HighHopes/Talk Page


text:
Talk:Wingtip device

Dr. Sighard Hoerner
ADinkelacker 16:58, 17 July 2007 (UTC) Dr. Sighard Hoerner is also a pioneer in this field. He published in 1952.  and

747 assignment
i am doing an assignment at college please can i have some information on the 747-400 i.e. surface area, controls, speeds, and altitudes
 * I should try Boeing_747 for starters. -- Solipsist 09:55, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Wingtip devices (move)
I would like to suggest renaming this article to Wingtip device and include raked wingtips and wingtip fences, which are all intended to fulfill the same purpose. —Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 17:42, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I think raked wingtip should be merged in here and the result be moved to Wingtip device. Formal CFV. —Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 18:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Winglets are not only at an upwards angle
i will try to find pictures of this as i have seen several aircraft here with winglets going in a downward direction most commonly on small high wing single engine type aircraft like small cessnas would anyone like to explain what the difference is or if this still counts as a winglet?
 * No, this will be called a wing fence, and can be found on the A320 series (A318-A321) and MD-11.
 * DeepSpace 08:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * As is now noted in the article, a wingtip fence (which is what you were referring on the A320) is not the same as a wing fence. The MD-11 uses a conventional winglet. —Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 15:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Accident
Please someone link this article to the article of the GOL Accident in Brazil, a frontal colision betwen a 737-800 and a Embraer Legacy that the winglet of one damaged the other aircraft. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.23.96.2 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 7 October 2006.
 * To be honest I don't think it would be appropriate to link from here to Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907. Whilst it looks like one of the planes lost its winglet in the collision (the pictures are interesting), this disaster doesn't appear to have anything to do with winglets directly. Its really just looks like a mid air collision in which the winglet of one was lost because, but perhaps only because it was on an extremity. If it could be shown that the Boeing plane crashed because the Embraer's wingtip cut through vital systems and this wouldn't have happened if planes didn't have winglets, then there would be a close link - but that seems unlikely. In the meantime a link from mid air collision might be relevant - ah but its already there. -- Solipsist 04:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The winglets decided the collision - the Legacy winglet tore into the 737 wing and the 737 winglet hit the Legacy horizontal stabilizer. The 737 crashed and the Legacy landed. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Awkward wording
Just noting that it might be best to re-word the second paragraph, as it is sort of awkward in its current form.

Move/example photos
Obviously, since I have moved/merged the article, much needs to be done. I will do what I can but much needs to be fleshed out. Also, anyone know where we can find a photo of the DC-10 which was used to develop winglets? —Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 17:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Try the NASA winglet article. Just saw it there the other day. ericg ✈ 10:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Merger of Wingtip Device and Wingtip articles
There has been a proposal to merge the Wingtip device article with the Wingtip article. Since wing tips are found on all fixed wing aircraft, but wing tip devices are found on very very few of them, the only way I can see of merging these articles is if the Wingtip Device article is made a sub-section of the wingtip article. Otherwise I think that they should be left as two separate articles. Ahunt 14:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a falsehood. While wingtip devices are not common on older aircraft, several manufacturers now supply devices on the majority, if not all of their product line. This includes Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier, Boeing, Gulfstream, etc. —Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 11:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

A320 blended winglet testing
A few months back, Airbus determined that blended winglets on the jetBlue A320s were a failure. I can't find a press article stating this, though I know I've seen it. Anyone know where to find it? —Joseph/N328KF (Talk) 15:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Image placement
Please leave the image placement alone for a while. I'm working on major content additions, and will be changing the images to follow the text. We can play with the window dressing when the content is stable. Dhaluza 12:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC) On top it states "MD-11... ...the first mainline airliner to feature the winglets" near the bottom "Boeing 747-400 ...the first mainline airliner to feature the winglets I removed a comment about problems with the A380 because it was irrelevant in a discussion of the A320 and it wasn't mentioned in the article cited (October 22, 2007). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.20.109.155 (talk) 04:40, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

History: connection to bird flight?
Reading this article, I was surprised not to see any connection with bird flight, specifically the slotted wing tips found on the soaring species such as the condor and eagle. Surely they provided some inspiration. --IanOsgood 19:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MMA.jpg
Image:MMA.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page. If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot (talk) 12:54, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Laminar airflow?
My understanding is that winglets and wing fences also increase efficiency by reducing vortex interference with laminar airflow near the tips of the wing, by 'moving' the confluence of low-pressure (over wing) and high-pressure (under wing) air away from the surface of the wing. My understanding is that wingtip vortices create turbulence originating at the leading edge of the wingtip, and propagating backwards and inboard. This turbulence 'delaminates' the airflow over a small triangular section of the outboard wing, thus decreasing overall lift. The fence/winglet drives the area where the vortext forms upwards away fronm the wing surface. Is my understandign correct, or is the increased efficiency solely because of the pressure effects against the winglet itself? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.192.1 (talk)

Image:Wing planform and winglets.svg
This newly added image has an immensely long and confused caption. This is not the purpose of captions, the text should be included in the text and properly referenced. Please see MOS for more information on this. - Ahunt (talk) 12:47, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I strongly agree so I've commented it out for the moment - Adrian Pingstone (talk) 16:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Not solely on fixed-wing aircraft
The article asserts that 'winglets' are used on fixed-wing aircraft but fails to mention their use on wind turbines. --TraceyR (talk) 22:16, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Those wouldn't be, strictly speaking, "winglets" or even "wing tip devices" but rather rotor or prop devices. I think that belongs in a different article along with P-tip propellers and helicopter rotor blade tip devices. - Ahunt (talk) 00:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I suppose that it depends on the definition of "wing". Helicopter rotor blades are also known as rotary wings. Modern wind-turbine rotor-blades also sport such wingtip devices. The fact that they are passive rather than active (the only major difference) shouldn't preclude their mention here. I'll try to find (or take) a photo of one for use here. --TraceyR (talk) 08:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

 * My preference would be for a new article on prop and rotor tip devices rather than tack it on this article. Aerodynamically, while they have some common elements, they are quite different subjects. - Ahunt (talk) 12:50, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Wright brothers "blinkers"
This device was at first a single axial blinker, then two lateral ones about mid-span. These small vertical surfaces were located within the canard planes, not at the tip and not closing the area between the planes. They were installed for adding vertical surface at the front of the plane, to get a better roll/yaw coupling, i.e. spiral stability (the plane was lacking central and front lateral area). Definitively not winglets.Plxd (talk) 15:07, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Images
At the end of the article there are two images intertwined with the references. I do not have the technical expertise to fix the problem. I'm sure one of you out there in Wikipedia land though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.187.122.1 (talk) 04:54, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

 * It looks fine to me when viewed with Google Chrome 17.0.963.83 and Firefox 11.0, with no images near the refs section at any widths up to 1440 px. Can you describe What are you seeing and also which browser are you using? - Ahunt (talk) 11:28, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Missing citation
There is no reference given for the following:

"There are several types of wingtip devices, and although they function in different manners, the intended effect is always to reduce the aircraft's drag by partial recovery of the tip vortex energy."

Could the author please give one?

Mcamp@cinci.rr.com (talk) 21:27, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Found a reference which was possibly the source. The source article made it clear that winglets reduce induced drag simply by increasing effective aspect ratio (without all of the structural penalties imposed by increasing wingspan). The original extract seemed to suggest, incorrectly, that winglets per se have some ability to "reduce vortex energy", independent of the results of simply increasing aspect ratio in a different way: vertically rather than horizontally.

Edited the text accordingly.

Mcamp@cinci.rr.com (talk) 00:32, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

 * The ref should really be added. What was it? - Ahunt (talk) 00:59, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Possible copyright issue
I just added a citation to. Then I noticed several chunks of this article are word-for-word the same as that source. Burninthruthesky (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Which chunks? And have you checked the WP article history to see when they were added, and by whom? - BilCat (talk) 20:53, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The citation I added was in Wingtip_device para 2. The text was added around January 2007, but I haven't found the exact diff yet. Burninthruthesky (talk) 21:05, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * You don't need to find the diff, you can just remove the copyright vios, or re-write them if you like. - Ahunt (talk) 21:25, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Since the journal is dated 2014, I'm unsure which may be the original. Is it possible the Literature Review of that paper sourced Wikipedia? Burninthruthesky (talk) 21:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

 * It's quite possible the paper sourced WP, or perhaps both WP and the paper. Copied the same sources. One way to help determine that is through a painstakingly long process of comparing the origin addition to WP in 2007 with the paper, and noting the differences, and then checking a diff from 2014 to see if it more closely resembles the paper than the original addition. Sometimes it's possible to see paragraphs and words added to WP that eventually made up the text in the later copy (the paper in this case). But if it is a near-verbatim copy in 2007, and the WP versions changed later, that might indicate a common source. It's sort of the WP version of the Synoptic Problem! - BilCat (talk) 22:05, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Further inspection of the history of that paragraph shows several revisions to the wording, by various users, before 2007. This leads me to the (slightly shocking) conclusion the reference is WP:CIRCULAR rather than the article WP:COPYVIO. I will remove the citation. Burninthruthesky (talk) 07:06, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

 * That is a real danger with Wikipedia, we have become so well-respected that other websites are quoting us, which would be fine if they would attribute it! Good catch! - Ahunt (talk) 12:19, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

First use of Winglets...
...weren´t on the Rutan in 1975, but on the Junkers W 33 D-1167 "Bremen" in 1927. Pic: http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acimages/w33l_kp.jpg Also Somervilles biplane had sort of "blended winglets" as early as 1911. Have a nice day. 46.114.75.188 (talk) 23:30, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Use of 'Wingtip devices' in Marine propellers' blades
Hallo!: Same as Hartzell used the blade tip additions in aircraft propellers blades, the concept arrived to some patents in the field of marine propellers, for example: ES-0444150_A1 (1976); ES-8300608_A2 (1981); ES-0293837_U (1987). Numbers are: 'Publication number', and applicant: 'Astilleros espanoles' (Astilleros españoles). All these patents have expired, can be used, and are of open and free download in www.oepm.es (No need to enter a key for download), or in www.espacenet.com. Any OCR -Optical Character Recognition- software, free versions exist, will generate a Word or other format file, that can be translated into many languages by on-line translators, as Google translate. Enjoy the day and have some fun!. Thanks, regards, + Salut--Caula (talk) 17:45, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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I have just modified 6 external links on Wingtip device. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Replaced archive link https://web.archive.org/web/20160921063132/http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/h/Heinkel/He%20162/Baubeschreibung.pdf with https://web.archive.org/web/20160804005136/http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/h/Heinkel/He%20162/Baubeschreibung.pdf on http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/h/Heinkel/He%20162/Baubeschreibung.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.londoncityairport.com/content/pdf/LCY%20Wake%20Turbulence%20Study.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/innovation/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.engr.psu.edu/newsevents/EPS/v16n3_2000summer/tip.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.hartzellpropellers.com/product_support/support_faqs.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090721184318/http://ngccommunity.nationalgeographic.com/ngcblogs/explorer/engineering/ to http://ngccommunity.nationalgeographic.com/ngcblogs/explorer/engineering/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:09, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

A-10 Lippisch ears
Aren't those Lippisch ears in the A-10 wing tips? ——Nikolas Ojala (talk) 11:42, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Help!? about Hoerner wing tips and dutch roll in He 162 planes
I am uninformed about stuff like this, but have actually been vaguely curious about winglets that I've seen on planes at an airport near to me, and I arrived at this article today to try to make sense of statements in obituaries today about death of aerospace pioneer Joe Clark (aeronautics) (new stub article). One obituary mentioned his role "perfecting and selling blended winglets" that reduce drag and improve performance of more than 9,000 private and commercial jets (per Seattle bizjournals obituary, March 31, 2020).

However I was derailed by the article having a long-standing nonsensical/ungrammatical statement, about a winglet being used during World War II production of He 162 planes: "This was done in order to counteract the dutch roll characteristic the marked three degrees of dihedral angle for each wing panel that the original He 162 design's wings possessed." I cannot parse that, I think it does not make sense as a sentence. The sentence became garbled in this 21 December 2016 edit by User:The PIPE, which unfortunately modified the original coverage of the issue for the He 162, added 18 June 2014 by The PIPE.

I added a link to the dihedral (aeronautics) article, moved the paragraph, and broke it into shorter sentences, and otherwise edited it in this diff just now to become the following:"The earliest-known implementation of a Hoerner-style downward-angled 'wingtip device' on a jet aircraft was during World War II. This was the so-called 'Lippisch-Ohren' (Lippisch-ears), allegedly attributed to the Messerschmitt Me 163's designer Alexander Lippisch, and first added to the M3 and M4 third and fourth prototypes of the Heinkel He 162A Spatz jet light fighter for evaluation. This addition was done in order to counteract the dutch roll characteristic present in the original He 162 design, related to its wings having a marked dihedral angle.  This became a standard feature of the approximately 320 completed He 162A jet fighters built, with hundreds more He 162A airframes going unfinished by V-E Day."

Is that okay now?

There was also a "citation needed" tag added September 2016 with "reason=cited source does not support claim that these act as wingtip devices", which I don't understand. I suppose a winglet might be considered a "wingtip device", right? Then the complaint is about how the source does not support the wingtip device being a wingtip device? I know that I am uninformed in this subject area, but I removed the "citation needed" tag. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could review this sourcing issue? The citation needed tag followed this sentence: "As production of the Third Reich's chosen turbojet-powered emergency fighter was of prime importance at the start of 1945, disruption of the production line to make other types of changes to correct such a problem were not likely to have been available, and the added wingtip devices became a standard feature of the approximately 320 completed He 162A jet fighters built, with hundreds more He 162A airframes going unfinished by V-E Day" which was attributed to the J. Richard Conway 1972 source. The sentence partially duplicated info in a previous sentence. And to me, the sentence appeared speculative, anyhow, and I am suspicious that it was speculation by the Wikipedia editor, so I removed the sentence entirely. (I may be wrong, i.e. if the source does talk about changes being "not likely to have been available", then my uninformed removal should probably be reversed.) --Doncram (talk) 18:21, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Different winglets and sharklets .jpg

Active wingtips
, I kinda nerded out a bit there, didn't I? This page is so bad! Anything substantive kinda stands out. But this tech is so interesting. Raynatravis (talk) 04:43, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

 * No worries, but it needs to be proportionate and neutral in scope. I'll try to read the sources tomorrow and see what can be kept, if anything. BilCat (talk) 04:48, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

 * I think the article would benefit from an explanation of “active wingtip” but the emphasis on a brand name, and the claims about extraordinary feats of performance, are inappropriate in an encyclopaedia. Dolphin ( t ) 04:56, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

First two paragraphs contain inaccuracies
I quote the inaccurate sections from the first two paragraphs of the wiki-page:

"[Wingtip devices] intended effect is always to reduce an aircraft's drag by partial recovery of the tip vortex energy."

"Partial recovery of the energy" in the very least needs clarification and a source. I'd argue that is inaccurate, see McLean, Doug (2005). Wingtip Devices: What They Do and How They Do It (PDF). 2005 Boeing Performance and Flight Operations Engineering Conference.

"Such devices increase the effective aspect ratio of a wing without greatly increasing the wingspan. Extending the span would lower lift-induced drag, but would increase parasitic drag and would require boosting the strength and weight of the wing."

Wingtip devices also result in parasitic drag, it doesn't matter if the wetted area is vertical or horizontal. Wingtips also add weight and can increase the bending moment on the wing.

"...the winglet also reduces the lift-induced drag caused by wingtip vortices" - Vortices do not impact the lift-induced drag, they are a result of it. See McLean, Doug (2005). Wingtip Devices: What They Do and How They Do It (PDF). 2005 Boeing Performance and Flight Operations Engineering Conference. FropFrop (talk) 06:09, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

 * The user @Dolphin51, replied to another talk topic I started in the related page wingtip vortices, they corrected me on an inaccuracy I made in the text above, which I have copied and pasted below:
 * "I agree that some extra clarity would be desirable. However, your understanding that “induced drag causes the vortices” is immature. This style of thinking about matters of physics is highly inaccurate. When an airfoil is inclined to a flowing fluid so that it has an angle of attack, many things happen - lift occurs, drag increases, the fluid velocity around the airfoil acquires a spanwise component, a vortex sheet develops, trailing vortices develop, downwash occurs, orientation of the lift and drag vectors changes, lift-induced drag occurs, and so on! There are other changes too, that I haven’t mentioned. To select one of these (such as induced drag) and suggest that it causes one of the others (such as trailing vortices) is incorrect. All these things occur simultaneously as a consequence of changing the angle of attack on the airfoil. There is no other cause-and-effect, and there is no time lag between them as is sometimes suggested. This principle is not unique to fluid dynamic lift; it is true of most phenomena of interest in physics."
 * I believe most of what I said is still relevant when it comes to potential improvements in the page.
 * FropFrop (talk) 06:59, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

 * There is no single, correct explanation of induced drag; there are several explanations, all satisfactory. Similarly there is no single, correct explanation of the way wingtip devices reduce induced drag; there are several explanations, all satisfactory. It is inappropriate for the lead to this article to state that these devices operate by partial recovery of tip vortex energy. This might be one satisfactory explanation but it certainly isn’t the only one. Drag is a force but energy is not, so attempting to explain drag in terms of energy is not consistent with WP:Make technical articles understandable. I have erased the offending words. Dolphin ( t ) 11:02, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wingtip device


text:
Kamba language

Kamba, or Kikamba, is a Bantu language spoken by millions of Kamba people, primarily in Kenya, as well as thousands of people in Uganda, Tanzania, and elsewhere. In Kenya, Kamba is generally spoken in four counties: Machakos, Kitui, Makueni, and Kwale. The Machakos dialect is considered the standard variety and has been used in translation. The other major dialect is Kitui.

Kamba has lexical similarities to other Bantu languages such as Kikuyu, Meru, and Embu.

The Swedish National Museums of World Culture holds field recordings of kamba language made by Swedish ethnographer Gerhard Lindblom in 1911–12. Lindblom used phonograph cylinders to record songs along with other means of documentation in writing and photography. He also gathered objects, and later presented his work in The Akamba in British East Africa (1916).

Consonants

 * /tʃ/ occurs as a result of palatalization among /k/ before /j/.
 * In post-nasal positions, sounds /t, k, s, tʃ/ then become voiced as [d, ɡ, z, dʒ]. The voiced fricative /β/ then becomes a voiced stop [b] in post-nasal position.
 * The palatal glide sound /j/ is typically articulated to the front of the mouth, so that is interdental as [ð̞] or alveolo-palatal as [j̟]. When preceding a consonant however, it is always heard as a regular palatal glide [j].

title: Kamba language


text:
Matanza

Matanza or Mattanza may refer to:

Massacres

 * La Matanza, the 1932 communist-indigenous rebellion in El Salvador
 * La Matanza (1910–1920), a period of anti-Mexican violence in Texas, U.S.
 * Second Mafia War, or Mattanza, a period of conflict involving the Sicilian Mafia 1981–1984
 * La Matanza, an Indian massacre in North America, 1695

Places

 * La Matanza Partido, a district of Buenos Aires Province, Argentina
 * Matanza River, in Argentina
 * Matanza, Santander, Colombia
 * La Matanza District, Peru
 * La Matanza de Acentejo, Tenerife, Spain
 * Matanza de los Oteros, León, Spain

Other uses

 * Mattanza, a traditional tuna fishing technique
 * Matanza (band), a Brazilian rock band
 * Matanza Inc, a band formed by former members of Matanza
 * Matanza Cueto, ring name of Jeff Cobb (born 1982), Guamanian professional wrestler

title: Matanza


text:
File:Microcosm Garden.jpg

Summary
Microcosm Garden at CERN. Taken Sept 28 2005. -- SCZenz 09:08, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

title: File:Microcosm Garden.jpg


text:
Wikipedia talk:Selected anniversaries/September 29

In the news
 * 61 BC: In Rome, Pompey the Great (pictured) celebrated triumphs over pirates in the eastern Mediterranean Sea and in the war against king Mithridates VI of Pontus in Asia Minor, with enormous parades of spoils, prisoners, army and banners depicting battle scenes. It was also his 45th birthday.

the link to triumph should be changed to Roman triumph.--Panairjdde 09:08, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. -- PFHLai 18:00, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

2012 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 10:58, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: John Roberts (maintenance)
 * Omitted: Kyshtym disaster; Alouette 1; University of East Anglia
 * Included: British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument) (first appearance); Babi Yar (8th appearance, last in 2010); CERN (7th appearance, last in 2010)
 * Repeats: Metropolitan Police Service (9th consecutive appearance, 9 total); Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907 (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total)

2013 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 07:17, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: Alouette 1 (maintenance)
 * Omitted: Babi Yar; CERN; Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907 (ineligible—maintenance)
 * Included: The Sorrows of Young Werther (first appearance); Kyshtym disaster (2nd appearance, last in 2011); University of East Anglia (2nd appearance, last in 2011; 50th anniversary)
 * Repeats: Metropolitan Police Service (10th consecutive appearance, 10 total); British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument) (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total; 90th anniversary)

2014 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 05:55, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Rescued from Ineligible (unused): John Roberts
 * Omitted: Metropolitan Police Service (ineligible—maintenance); Kyshtym disaster; University of East Anglia
 * Included: Babi Yar (9th appearance, last in 2012); Alouette 1 (3rd appearance, last in 2011; rescued from Ineligible); Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907 (3rd appearance, last in 2012; rescued from Ineligible)
 * Repeats: The Sorrows of Young Werther (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total); British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument) (3rd consecutive appearance, 3 total)

2015 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 08:55, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Rescued from Ineligible (unused): Munich Agreement
 * Omitted: British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument); Babi Yar; Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907
 * Included: 1940 Brocklesby mid-air collision (first appearance; 75th anniversary); Kyshtym disaster (3rd appearance, last in 2013); John Roberts (first appearance; 10th anniversary)
 * Repeats: The Sorrows of Young Werther (3rd consecutive appearance, 3 total); Alouette 1 (2nd consecutive appearance, 4 total)

2016 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 16:01, 28 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Omitted: 1940 Brocklesby mid-air collision; Kyshtym disaster; Alouette 1; John Roberts
 * Included: British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument) (4th appearance, last in 2014); Babi Yar (10th appearance, last in 2014; 75th anniversary); University of East Anglia (3rd appearance, last in 2013); Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907 (4th appearance, last in 2014; 10th anniversary)
 * Repeats: The Sorrows of Young Werther (4th consecutive appearance, 4 total)

2017 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 01:46, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Rescued from Ineligible (unused): The Catch (baseball)
 * New articles (unused): Lockheed YF-22
 * Omitted: The Sorrows of Young Werther (ineligible—maintenance); British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument); Babi Yar; University of East Anglia; Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907
 * Included: Battle of St Quentin Canal/Hindenburg Line (both: first appearance); 1940 Brocklesby mid-air collision (2nd appearance, last in 2015); Kyshtym disaster (4th appearance, last in 2015; 60th anniversary); Alouette 1 (5th appearance, last in 2015); 1991 Haitian coup d'état (first appearance); Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson (2nd appearance, last in 2004; previously appeared on October 21); Guadalupe Victoria (first appearance); W. H. Auden (first appearance)

2018 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 16:23, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: John Roberts (maintenance)
 * Omitted: 1940 Brocklesby mid-air collision; Kyshtym disaster; Alouette 1; Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson; Guadalupe Victoria; W. H. Auden
 * Included: Munich Agreement (6th appearance, last in 2010; 80th anniversary); The Catch (baseball) (first appearance); Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907 (5th appearance, last in 2016); Ferdinand the Holy Prince (first appearance); Mercator Cooper (first appearance); Bill Shankly (first appearance)
 * Repeats: Battle of St Quentin Canal/Hindenburg Line (both: 2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total; 100th anniversary); 1991 Haitian coup d'état (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total)

2019 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 22:30, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * New articles (unused): Michael A. Monsoor
 * Omitted: Battle of St Quentin Canal/Hindenburg Line; Munich Agreement; 1991 Haitian coup d'état; Gol Transportes Aéreos Flight 1907; Ferdinand the Holy Prince; Mercator Cooper; Bill Shankly
 * Included: Mandate for Palestine (5th appearance, last in 2016; rescued from Ineligible); Babi Yar (11th appearance, last in 2016); University of East Anglia (4th appearance, last in 2016); Lockheed YF-22 (first appearance); William of Tyre (first appearance); Jim Baxter (first appearance; 80th birthday); Kevin Durant (first appearance)
 * Repeats: The Catch (baseball) (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total)

2020 notes
— howcheng  {chat} 04:12, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Moved to Ineligible: 1991 Haitian coup d'état (maintenance)
 * New articles (ineligible): Valston Hancock (TFA for 2020)
 * Omitted: Babi Yar; The Catch (baseball); William of Tyre; Jim Baxter; Kevin Durant
 * Included: 1940 Brocklesby mid-air collision (3rd appearance, last in 2017; 80th anniversary); Alouette 1 (6th appearance, last in 2017); René Goupil (first appearance); Guadalupe Victoria (2nd appearance, last in 2017); Michael A. Monsoor (first appearance)
 * Repeats: Mandate for Palestine (2nd consecutive appearance, 6 total); University of East Anglia (2nd consecutive appearance, 5 total); Lockheed YF-22 (2nd consecutive appearance, 2 total; 30th anniversary)

2021 notes

 * Deleted: Munich Agreement (moved to September 30)
 * Rescued from Ineligible (unused): Valston Hancock
 * Omitted: Mandate for Palestine; 1940 Brocklesby mid-air collision; Alouette 1; University of East Anglia; Lockheed YF-22; René Goupil; Guadalupe Victoria; Michael A. Monsoor
 * Included: Finland during the Great Northern War (first appearance); Metropolitan Police (11th appearance, last in 2013; rescued from Ineligible); Babi Yar (12th appearance, last in 2019); The Catch (baseball) (3rd appearance, last in 2019); Beauty and the Beast (1991 film) (first appearance; 30th anniversary); Arnaud Amalric (first appearance); Elizabeth Gaskell (first appearance); Bill Shankly (2nd appearance, last in 2018; 40th anniversary)


text:
Talk:Israel/Archive 7

New Topic to be called :Peace Options for the Middle East
Should there be such a topic at all?    I mean Peace who needs it! --Leonakselrad 17:13, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Remember, according to the Christians, when peace is brought between the Jews and Arabs, by the Anti-Christ, that the apocalypse is not that far down the road, so pray for no peace in the Middle East. 06:19 January 31 2006 (UTC)

War Status
"Israel is formally at war with Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon. A 1973 armistice agreement governs relations with its most immediate military adversary, Syria, and a de facto armistice persists with the other states as well. The chances for peace negotiations and/or full diplomatic relations with most Arab nations appear a more likely prospect once an independent Palestinian Entity is established."

I don't know, but is Isreal still formally at war with Iraq since the invasion and the installation of the new regime? 69.250.25.213 03:14, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * That's a good question! I don't know either, but I suspect changing the status quo between Israel and Iraq would be fairly low on the list of priorities for either country; politically, it would be hard (if not suicidal) for any Iraqi leadership to make any conciliatory gestures toward Israel right now. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

 * See here Ramallite (talk) 03:32, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 * As I said, hard, if not suicidal. Mithal al-Alusi's sons were murdered outside his home in February (the bullets were meant for him.) I hope he can succeed in his aims. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:51, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

The statement "Israel is formally at war with Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon" is wrong for two reasons. Adam 12:03, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Under the UN Charter, of which all these states are signatories, there is no such thing as a declaration of war or a state of war. All UN members have renounced war as an instrument of policy. Therefore no state has been "formally at war" with any other state since 1945
 * Since Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Lebanon have never recognised Israel, they can't be "formally" in any legal state with it.

 * I'm not sure that your first reason is a good one. States can renounce war but still do it.  However, I agree with your conclusion that there is a problem with the "formally at war" claim.  I think it would be more correct to say "informally".  They fought against each other and didn't kiss and make up yet.  Both the Jordan-Israel and Egypt-Israel peace treaties speak of ending the state of war, IIRC.  --Zero 13:39, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

My first statement is a straightforward statement of international law. There are of course plenty of de facto "states of war," but the word "formally" can only refer to a de jure state of war, which cannot exist between UN Charter signatories. Adam 14:10, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Why Is There A Military Section?
Whose idea was it for this? No other countries have information regarding their military. --MPA

Some dates and phonetics
I just RV'd some changes that 68.235.169.70 put in place, I took the liberty of changing some "gramatical" changes back to where they were. I personally don't think some of the phonetics this user used are globally accepted, such as the "Iyy" for the "Iud" sound in "Iyar". I left "Herzliyyah" unchanged, but I'd like to form some kind of consensus before undertaking the task. I was refrained of reversing all the changes from "day month" (ie: 5 Iyar) back to where they were, like "Month, Day" (Iyar, 5) more in accord with the english nomenclature. Unless somebody expresses their disconform here within a couple of days, I'll go ahead and put them back as they were. --Sebastian Kessel 21:51, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I just did it. --Sebastian Kessel 16:18, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I RV'd "Herzliyah" to "Herzliya". Although one could say there should be a double 'y' there, the general spelling should be that way. Another thing: Is it just me, or that using dates like September 01 looks ridiculis? one digit-date should appear September 1.. we are not computers .. (same goes for Tishrei 01 and etc..) --VICTOR 08:57, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Cuts
I have reduced the size of the article from 55 to 38kb by Adam 11:59, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * editing the History section, particularly the detailed accounts of the various wars, which belong in the relevant specialist articles
 * deleting all the stuff about political parties and coalitions etc, which belongs in Politics of Israel.
 * deleting some material from the Military and Geography sections which belongs in specialist articles or repeats earlier material.

Demographics
This article says that 60% of Israeli Jews were born in Israel. The CIA Factbook, however, says:

 * Jewish 80.1% (Europe/America-born 32.1%, Israel-born 20.8%, Africa-born 14.6%, Asia-born 12.6%), non-Jewish 19.9% (mostly Arab) (1996 est.)

Can someone clarify this? Adam 12:13, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

This table from the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics gives counts by age and origin for Jews and Others (the later being non-Arab non-Jews such as the non-Jewish family members of immigrant Jews). This table gives annual summaries by religion. Average values for 2003 that I can see (thousands): Total 6690, Jews 5130, Moslems 1055, Christians 141 (of which Arab Christians 115), Druze 110, Unclassified 251, Total Arabs 1283. For place of birth for Jews only: Israel 3404, Elsewhere 1726 (of which Asia 222, Africa 309, America+Europe+Oceania 1195 (of which former USSR 732, Romania 110)). So 66% of Israeli Jews were born in Israel. I guess that the CIA figures are for "country of origin", which is not the same as country of birth. --Zero 13:16, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

This page has current summary statistics. For mid-year 2005: total 6921, Jews and Others 5564 (of which Jews 5269), Arabs 1357. --Zero 13:22, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, the CIA site says clearly born, and I'd be astonished if such a wildly incorrect statement, on such a sensitive subject, could survive without challenge on such a widely-read website, and an official US government website at that. That said, I will have to take the Israeli government figures as correct unless someone can show that they are not. Adam 13:26, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * It is indeed amazing, especially as anyone personally familiar with Israel would know that 20.8% is impossibly low. --Zero 13:50, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Well actually, considering the fact that Israel was only created shortly after World War II, and that after the annexation of the area, a large proportion of the population was basically airlifted in, this is not a very surprising fact. I also have a great deal of other information (Religion vs. Ethnicity, Internal method of accounting as opposed to that of the CIA, etc.), which was cited in my earlier post, (though that seems to have been subsequently wiped-out) explaining the discrepancy between a few of the statistics given here. I personally don't want to get much further entangled in this discussion, but the proportion of Ethnically Jewish, Israeli born settlers within the bounds of the country established by the 1947 UN Partition Plan and inclusive of the areas included in the 1949-1950 armistices, is usually held at somewhere around 20%. If you have any questions about, or for me, or just need more explanation as to how I reached my conclusions, you can post your requests on my user page, or email me at Dariusthegreat88@gmail.com --Dariusthegreat88 9:52, 8 September 2005 (EST)

 * The numbers in the article are for Israel now, not in 1948. Of course figures for 1948 would also be interesting.  --Zero 11:07, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

The new edition
I'll list some problems, though I won't get far in this sitting. --Zero 13:50, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * "In fact Israel's interim constitution, the Basic Law, does not specify that Israel is a Jewish state, although this assumption underlies most Israeli law." --Calling it the interim constitution is legally dubious, but the main problem is that the Basic Law on Human Dignity and Liberty, the Basic Law of the Knesset, and the Basic Law of Freedom of Occupation all say that Israel is a Jewish state. So the sentence is simply wrong. --Zero 13:50, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I read the Basic Law some time ago with the specific intention of finding where it defines Israel as a "Jewish state" and I couldn't find any such statement. I will go and read it again. Adam 14:12, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * OK I have read the Basic Law again. The three references you refer to assume that Israel is a Jewish state, but there is no basic constitutional statement that "Israel is a Jewish state." I will modify the sentence somewhat. Adam 14:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

 * "Non-Jewish Israelis enjoy full political and civic equality" --The most well-known exception is that non-Jewish citizens do not have the right to bring their non-Jewish spouses into Israel, but Jewish citizens do have the right to bring their non-Jewish spouses into Israel. There are a large number of other exceptions, many produced by carefully crafted legislation that appears balanced on the surface.   So the claim is slightly false in theory and very false in practice.  --Zero 13:50, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * A foreign spouse is by defintion not an Israeli, so that doesn't really contradict what I said. No-one disputes that Israeli immigration law discriminates in favour of Jews. Adam 14:12, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * It is the right of Israeli citizens to live with their spouse in their own country which is alloted to citizens in a racist fashion. It is not the rights of spouses that are at issue.  Even the rabidly pro-Israeli ADL criticised this law.  --Zero 14:22, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I will modify the statement. Can we avoid words like "rabidly"? I am very tired of over-heated rhetoric on this subject. Adam 14:30, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Guys, let me humbly point out that the Israeli declaration of independence does state that Israel is a Jewish State. Quote ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT, ARE HERE ASSEMBLED ON THE DAY OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER ERETZ-ISRAEL AND, BY VIRTUE OF OUR NATURAL AND HISTORIC RIGHT AND ON THE STRENGTH OF THE RESOLUTION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY, HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL. (Caps are from the text) Please see []

A declaration of independence is neither a constitution nor a statute. I of course don't dispute that the founders of Israel intended it to be a Jewish state. All I am pointing out is that there is no actual constitutional statement to that effect. Adam 01:24, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

 * That is indeed a good point, but in this case the spirit is clear and I think it should be in the article. Nevertheless, the fact that it is not formally written is good for Israel and should make integrating other religions into the country easier, hopefully in the near future.

Don't hold your breath. Adam 05:12, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

You can't expect to find a simple statement "Israel is a Jewish State" because then it would have to be defined. However, statements like "The purpose of this Basic Law if to protect freedom of occupation, in order to establish in a Basic Law the values of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state." have the same effect and are intended to have the same effect. The Law of the Knesset even has an enforcement provision: if your political party doesn't hold that Israel is a Jewish State you can't stand for election. There are also multiple references to the principles enunciated in the declaration of independence, of which "Jewish State" is central. It appears that the Israeli Supreme Court indeed holds the "Jewish State" concept as foundational even though they have trouble agreeing on what it means. Below is an extract from the Stanford Journal of International Law, Winter 2004, pp64-68. --Zero 05:39, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

 * 2. Israel: "Jewish and Democratic"
 * Common Article 1A of the Basic Laws reads, "The purpose of this Basic Law is to protect human dignity and liberty, in order to establish in a Basic Law the values of the State of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state." [FN86] This clause in the 1992 Basic Laws amplified an amendment to the 1985 Basic Law: The Knesset, which stated that political parties may be banned from participating in parliamentary elections for several reasons, including the negation of the existence of Israel as a democracy and as the "state of the Jewish people." [FN87] In 2002, this section was amended to conform with the 1992 Basic Law to read that a person or a party could not stand as a candidate for Knesset election if it could be inferred from their goals or acts that they deny the existence of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state. The amendment allows the Central Elections Committee to disqualify a party or a specific candidate from a party list. [FN88] In 1992, the Parties Law was enacted, [FN89] including similar restrictions on the registration of political parties. Although the reference to Israel as a Jewish state appears already in the 1948 Declaration of Independence, [FN90] the phrase "Jewish and democratic state" began playing a far more significant role since the enactment of these laws, and especially after these terms were included in the 1992 Basic Laws. [FN91] As a result, in current Israeli discourse, the definition of the state as Jewish (and not just democratic) may serve to justify the denial of full civic equality to non-Jews, particularly the denial of their collective rights as a national minority within Israel. It may also provide a rationale for the curtailment of democracy, especially concerning equality for Israel's Palestinian citizens. [FN92]
 * Since the 1990s, political and legal discourses in Israel have become increasingly polarized between those who emphasize the "Jewish state" aspect and those who argue that, as a democracy, Israel must consider itself the "state of all its citizens." The prevalence of the "Jewish state" idea as a constitutional principle has often served to delegitimize the idea of Israel as the "state of all its citizens."
 * The definition of Israel as the "state of the Jewish People" in the 1985 amendment to the Basic Law: The Knesset, and as a "Jewish state" in the 1992 Basic Laws, affected the thrust of the prevailing discourse and came to imply that Israel belongs to the Jewish people and is not the "state of all its citizens." [FN93] These ideas resonate in Supreme Court rulings pursuant to the statutory provisions placing limitations on political parties. In the 1988 Ben-Shalom ruling, [FN94] the Court gave the "Jewish state" concept one of its most maximalist readings. Although it may be unusual in the extent to which it expands the Jewish state at the expense of democracy, and although this ruling was issued prior to the time framework discussed in this Article, it is indicative of the tensions between Jewishness and democracy in Israeli constitutional discourse.
 * In the Ben-Shalom case, the Supreme Court heard an appeal requesting that a party with both Arab and Jewish members be disqualified from participating in elections because it had rejected the principle that Israel is the state of the Jewish people. Although the Court rejected the appeal three votes to two, one dissenting judge, Dov Levin, argued that a party calling for full equality between Jews and Arabs and stating that Israel is the "state of all its citizens" should be disqualified from participation since it thereby rejects the constitutional idea of Israel as a Jewish state. [FN95] The other dissenting judge, Menachem Elon, emphasized that Israel is the "state of the Jewish people," and only the Jewish people. [FN96] While disqualification was prevented because the majority held that the evidence submitted had been insufficient to prove that the party in question had rejected the idea of Israel as a Jewish state, the majority did not seem to strongly disagree with the minority Justices on the interpretation of the Basic Law. In any case, the dissenting opinions are an example of the broad interpretation given by some justices to the notion of the Jewish state.
 * Another ruling issued in 1996, however, adopts a different view than the one expressed by the dissenters in Ben-Shalom and tacitly supported by the majority. In Issacson, the Supreme Court was asked to overturn a decision that had allowed the registration of an Arab party under the Parties Law. [FN97] The Court rejected the appeal, and Justice Cheshin held that the party's declaration that the state of Israel is a "state of all its citizens" does not contradict the existence of Israel as a Jewish state, since equality among all citizens is a fundamental principle of democracy. [FN98]
 * In the 1999 Ehrlich ruling, the Supreme Court considered disqualifying a party on similar grounds, but ruled that it was questionable whether Azmi Bishara, the party leader, had indeed negated the idea of Israel as a Jewish state. [FN99] Finally, before the 2003 elections, the Central Elections Committee disqualified two Arab individual candidates and an entire Arab political party based, inter alia, on the same grounds, but these decisions were overturned by the Supreme Court. The Court held that the idea of the "state of all its citizens" may or may not contradict the idea of the Jewish state, depending on the specific interpretation it is given. [FN100]
 * These rulings indicate that the constitutional definition of Israel as a democracy and the state of the Jewish people was more than once interpreted in case law as an endorsement of the state's ethnic character, potentially disqualifying from participation in the political process anyone seeking a shift from an ethnic state to a liberal democracy based on civic equality. Although no party has been disqualified on these grounds since 1965, and the 2003 Central Elections Committee decisions were overturned by the Supreme Court, the interpretation in Ben-Shalom provided by the dissenting justices and tacitly endorsed by the majority represents a prevailing attitude that the definition of Israel as a Jewish state or as the state of the Jewish people denies the option of viewing it as the state of all its citizens. To fully understand the pervasiveness of this understanding of Israel as a "Jewish state," one must look not only at the symbolic level and at the question of political participation, but also at existing practices of discrimination that are connected to the identification of the state with the dominant ethnic group. These practices especially include discrimination in allocation of resources, such as land and education. [FN101]
 * That being said, in Ka'adan, [FN102] a precedent-setting ruling concerning land rights discussed in Part IV.D.3, the Supreme Court surprisingly relied on the Jewish state definition to reinforce rather than deny equality to Arab citizens. The Court's rationale was that the character and values of a Jewish state require it to ensure equal treatment of non-Jews. [FN103] In a later development, in 2002 as part of a decision stating that municipal signs in mixed Jewish-Arab cities in Israel must be written in Arabic in addition to Hebrew, the Supreme Court recognized the collective language rights of Israel's Palestinian minority. [FN104]
 * To conclude, the reinforcement of the Jewish state definition in 1992 through the new Basic Laws and the Parties Law may bolster Israel's ethnic nature at the expense of egalitarian democracy. The likelihood of this outcome will depend largely on the course the judiciary chooses, and its record has been mixed thus far. In and of itself, the constitutional definition of the state as the Jewish state did strengthen a discourse that rejects the idea of Israel as a state of all its citizens. Insofar as reconciliation within Israel proper would require acknowledging the exclusion of its Palestinian citizens from full and equal citizenship in the state, [FN105] the strengthening of the Jewish state at the expense of the democratic state or the state of all its citizens runs counter to the goal of reconciliation. From a transitional justice perspective, then, the transformations of Israeli constitutional law in the 1990s failed to encourage reconciliation and inclusiveness. In fact, the opposite may be true.
 * Finally, the 1992 Israeli Basic Laws do not include an equality clause. The right to equality was sacrificed in political compromises struck on the way to the legislation of the Basic Laws because of concerns about its potential effect on religious issues, state relationships, and relationships between Jews and Arabs. [FN106] However, after the legislation of the Basic Laws, the Supreme Court issued several rulings stating that the right to equality is protected by the Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty, as part of the right to human dignity, [FN107] and also made significant rulings concerning equality for Arabs within Israel. [FN108] The absence of an explicit equality provision in the Basic Laws, however, is significant in and of itself.
 * [FN90].   Pnina Lahav discusses how the idea of the "Jewish state" in the Declaration of Independence was first used by the Israeli Supreme Court to limit democracy when it came to electoral participation rights of Arab parties in the famous Yeredor case. E.A. 1/65, Yeredor v. Chairman of the Central Elections Commission, 19(3) P.D. 365. [1965, before the ammendment to the Basic Law of the Knesset - Zero] In this sense, this case is a precursor of the 1990s constitutional discourse about a "Jewish and democratic state." See generally Pnina Lahav, Judgment in Jerusalem: Chief Justice Simon Agranat and the Zionist Century 181-195 (1997). On the "Jewishness" discourse in Israel's Declaration of Independence, see Pnina Lahav, A" Jewish State...to Be Known as the State of Israel": Notes on Israeli Legal Historiography, 19 Law & Hist. Rev. 387 (2001).  (other footnotes on request)
 * [FN90].   Pnina Lahav discusses how the idea of the "Jewish state" in the Declaration of Independence was first used by the Israeli Supreme Court to limit democracy when it came to electoral participation rights of Arab parties in the famous Yeredor case. E.A. 1/65, Yeredor v. Chairman of the Central Elections Commission, 19(3) P.D. 365. [1965, before the ammendment to the Basic Law of the Knesset - Zero] In this sense, this case is a precursor of the 1990s constitutional discourse about a "Jewish and democratic state." See generally Pnina Lahav, Judgment in Jerusalem: Chief Justice Simon Agranat and the Zionist Century 181-195 (1997). On the "Jewishness" discourse in Israel's Declaration of Independence, see Pnina Lahav, A" Jewish State...to Be Known as the State of Israel": Notes on Israeli Legal Historiography, 19 Law & Hist. Rev. 387 (2001).  (other footnotes on request)

That is all very interesting, and what it shows is that Israel has felt increasingly compelled over the past 20 years to provide legal reinforcement for the view that Israel is a state for one and only one ethnic-religious community, the Jews, in the face of increasing rejection of this view of nationality in western liberal-democratic states. It is interesting in this context to note that the three Basic Laws which Zero refered me to date from 1986, 1992 and 1994. In other words, from 1948 to 1986 there was no reference at all in the Basic Law, the nearest thing Israel has to a constitution, to Israel being a Jewish state. Three such references have now been added to the Basic Law. But the Basic Laws are only statutes passed by the Knesset, they are not clauses of a constitution. By contrast, the Iranian Constitution (to take one example) says: "The form of government of Iran is that of an Islamic Republic, endorsed by the people of Iran on the basis of their longstanding belief in the sovereignty of truth and Qur'anic justice." So Iran's status as an Islamic republic is constitutionally entrenched in a way Israel's status as a Jewish state is not. One might suggest that the principal reason Israel does not have a constitution after 57 years of statehood is because there is no consensus on what is meant by the expression "Jewish state" and on exactly what kind of state Israel is. Adam 09:01, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Israel clearly isn't the only liberal-democracy without a constitution (except for the United Kingodm, which nonetheless exhibit a liberal-democratic tradition spanning hunderds of years) by mere coincedence. For those fluent in Hebrew, this is the site of the Constitutional Committee: knesset.gov.il/huka, and less comprehensively in English at: here. El_C 09:18, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Pages for deletion
I nominate this page as a page for deletion. Due to the fact that Israel has violated a large number of U.N. resolutions; it has demonstrated that it is not concerned with it's soveriegn status as granted by the U.N.. Therefore, it should be considered a non-soveriegn state, and as such, should be of no concern to Wikipedia. As a Wikipedia editor, you have the right to vote for or against deletion, you do not have the right to erase my nomination for deletion.

We have the right to ignore it as a silly piece of anonymous provocation. Adam 07:22, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * We have the obligation to ignore it as a silly piece of anonymous provocation. When the United Nations deems Israel non-soveriegn, then such a change can be implemented. At the event, there's the 1947 UN General Assembly Resolution 181 which was voted on accordingly:

 * El_C 08:28, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

While I agree with your general point, that vote was not a vote to recognise the State of Israel. It was a vote on the Partition Plan. Israel is quite clear that its sovereignty does not derive from a vote taken by the UN, but on the inherent right of nationhood of the Jewish people. Adam 08:58, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know; point taken though, I didn't qualify the above with great precision. El_C 09:29, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Not sure what the discussion was about, but anyway Israel's sovereignty under international law derives from their recognition by other nations and by international bodies such as the UN. Same as for everybody.  Nothing to do with how good their national myths are.  --Zero 09:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

map
Anyone notice that the map shows Israel containing Gaza and not containing the West Bank/Judea and Samaria? Seems a bit POV to me (though a mixed POV).

--23:17, 31 August 2005 (UTC) (Comment: unsigned by USer:198.203.175.175. Please use ~ in the future to auto sign & date your posts)

 * Nah, I think the pixel for Gaza is missing. I envy your eagle vision though.  ←Humus sapiens←ну? 00:47, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey, is Sheba Farms shaded in or not? And the borders seem to include Taba. Perhaps this is why eight pixel maps of countries are not used to determine international borders. --Goodoldpolonius2 01:06, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

terrorist vs. militant
It seems very strange to me that self-described terrorists cant be described as such to the point of censorship. Ive just noticed on the wikipedia entry for 'stern gang' their called 'terrorist'-so theres a form of schizophrenia in wikipedia- however if thats what you want Im not going to argue it just that reality is being denied Eric A. Warbuton 06:08, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The introduction refers to actions by groups on both sides; singling out just one group is POV, and needless detail in a summary article. As well, Wikipedia prefers the term "militant" as more neutral than "terrorist". Jayjg (talk)  06:25, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Motto
The page is protected but the motto has somehow disappeared, I think in the last edit by User:Toya. Can somebody with access put it back?
 * Israel don't have national motto! Toya 15:56, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree, but in any event, a note here before doing it would've been nice. --Sebastian Kessel Talk 15:59, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

We aren't supposed to make substantial edits while the page is protected. However, we can discuss here whether or not Israel really has a motto. Has anyone produced hard evidence in either direction? --Zero 03:15, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * no motto. just see the Hebrew version of this page. Deror 08:13, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm an Israeli and I've never heard of anything such as an Israeli motto. The removed "im tirzu, ein zo agada" was the motto of Herzl's Altneuland, it has become a popular Zionist slogan, but I've never heard it is Israel's motto.--Doron 13:13, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * So that's where I've heard it before. Unless someone can find some sort of official statement that the Altneuland motto was adopted by Israel, I think we should keep it out.  --Zero 06:43, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Look what i've found . This is curious... maybe somebody living in Israel can shed some light? --Sebastian Kessel Talk 23:04, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Haven't got a clue--Doron 06:02, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Again - no official moto. The flag anthem and symbol are set by Knesset legislation. NO legislation re moto. Deror 10:06, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

This version
Having been accused within 48 hours of being both an Israeli agent and an anti-Semite, I am fairly confident that the current version is fairly balanced. Any article that annoys fanatics on both sides is heading in the right direction. Adam 14:38, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Balanced?? The tag limitedgeographicscope is not inappropriate for this article since it presents a POV held by a narrow minority as if it was the (global) majority view. It's disgusting frankly. As a Jewish person I _know_ that what you are doing is a disservice to Jews even if you mean to do the opposite. By presenting (modern) extremist US-Israeli views on Israel and it's history as if it was factual you are turning a Wikipedia article into cheap propaganda.
 * Imagine if I would edit an article on homosexuality and would put in this sentence: 'Men and women has throughout the ages strived to become homosexuals and it is well known that every important historical person that has ever lived has been a homosexual', do you think a person reading that would say 'Interesting, I didn't know that' or do you think they would laugh and then not take the other (real, factual) claims that were in the article seriously?
 * If I was to edit an article about Israel I would probably slant it in a pro-Israeli way since I believe that we should have a homeland (and it's impossible to not be biased) but I wouldn't resort to writing a fairytale version of reality.
 * In the opening paragraph you have this sentence;
 * "In most respects, non-Jewish Israelis enjoy full political and civic equality (although some laws favour Jewish citizens), but Israel is not a secular or multicultural state in the purest sense."
 * Who do you expect would believe that? The whole article is like that and it only serves to discredit Wikipedia, and to discredit us Jews that wants and needs to live in the real world.
 * I don't think it would be much use if I were to edit/suggest edits to the article as I believe they would get reverted, even if I submitted 100 references for every edit. That's not the way it should be. --saxet 06:04, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Please be more explicit and less emotional. What would you write instead of that sentence?  You might have a good point, but so far you haven't given us the opporttunity to judge it.  --Zero 06:46, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

And if you are not prepared to take part in editing, you have no right to put dispute tags on articles. If your edits have merit, other editors will protect them from reversion. Adam 07:05, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Largest city
jerusalem is not the largest city, tel aviv is three times larger —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.27.66.67 (talk • contribs) 22:02, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The Tel Aviv metropolitan area is bigger (1.8 million), but the city itself is only 365,000. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:08, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Are they referring to largest in population or per square mile?MPA
 * Population.--Doron 09:30, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

How large is the population of West Jerusalem? Because the rest of the world doesn't consider East Jerusalem to be part of Israel, and our Jerusalem article gives 704,900 as the population of all of Jerusalem. Assuming the two halves are about the same population (they may not be), you would have a situation where the Israelis say that Jerusalem (all of it) is the largest city in Israel, but the rest of the world says that Tel Aviv is, because it is larger than the undisputedly Israeli part of Jerusalem...does that make sense? john k 22:40, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Good point. The articles I've seen use that 700K number for combined East and West Jerusalem. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 23:03, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * About 58% of the population of Jerusalem lives in the territory annexed in 1967, out of which 45% are Jewish. About 67% of all residents of Jerusalem are Jewish. Even if you consider only the Jewish residents, Jerusalem is still the most populated city in Israel. For the facts-in-a-glance box, I think this is accurate enough.--Doron 07:50, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
 * This seems fair enough, I guess... john k 15:41, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, wait. It doesn't make any difference whether they are Jewish or Shinto; it's people who make up the population of a place. I'm not at all sure of the relevance of the demography. I mean, if there were more Jews in NYC than in all of Israel, it wouldnot make NYC the largest city in Israel. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:49, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, but the Jews living in East Jerusalem behave as active citizens of Israel - they vote in Israeli elections, they serve in the Israeli army, and so forth. I think it's a tough call, but when the options are either a) listing just Jerusalem; and b) listing both Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, I'm going to go with the simpler option if a rationale can be found that's not too obviously POV. john k 18:12, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Israel/Archive 7


text:
Genetic variability

Genetic variability is either the presence of, or the generation of, genetic differences. It is defined as "the formation of individuals differing in genotype, or the presence of genotypically different individuals, in contrast to environmentally induced differences which, as a rule, cause only temporary, nonheritable changes of the phenotype." Genetic variability in a population promotes biodiversity, as it ensures that no two living things are exactly alike. While many factors can cause genetic variability, some factors can also decrease genetic variability.

Causes
There are many sources of genetic variability in a population:
 * Homologous recombination is a significant source of variability. During meiosis in sexual organisms (sexual reproduction), two homologous chromosomes cross over one another and exchange genetic material. This random process of exchanging genetic material is known as recombination, and it is governed by its own set of genes.  Being controlled by genes means that recombination is variable in frequency. Generally, it is more common in areas on the chromosome where there are a higher number of genes. It creates more combinations of genes.  After this occurs, the chromosomes are split apart and are ready to contribute to forming an offspring.
 * Immigration, emigration, and translocation – each of these is the movement of an individual into or out of a population. When an individual enters a new population after coming from a genetically isolated one, they will increase the genetic variability of the next generation, provided that they reproduce.
 * Polyploidy – having more than two homologous chromosomes. This allows for more recombination during meiosis and more genetic variability in one's offspring. However, this phenomenon can also prove difficult for cell division.
 * Diffuse centromeres – in asexual organisms where the offspring is an exact genetic copy of the parent, there are limited sources of genetic variability. One thing that increases variability, however, is having diffused centromeres instead of localized centromeres.  Being diffused allows the chromatids to split apart in many different ways, which produces chromosome fragmentation and polyploidy.
 * Genetic mutations – contribute to the genetic variability within a population and can have positive, negative, or neutral effects on a fitness. This variability can be easily propagated throughout a population by natural selection if the mutation increases the affected individual's fitness and its effects will be minimized/hidden if the mutation is deleterious. If the individual can survive with the mutations they have, those mutations will likely be passed down to offspring. However, the smaller a population and its genetic variability are, the more likely the recessive/hidden deleterious mutations will show up causing genetic drift.

 * DNA damages are very frequent, occurring more than 60,000 times a day per cell on average in humans. This is due to metabolic or hydrolytic processes as summarized in DNA damage (naturally occurring). Most DNA damages are accurately repaired by various natural DNA repair mechanisms.  However, some DNA damages remain and give rise to mutations.
 * Additionally, not all types of mutations occur as much as others do. Some mutations might have a huge impact on the human body, and some might not. It depends on what combination of base pairs is changed.

 * Most spontaneously arising mutations result from error prone replication (translesion synthesis) past a DNA damage in the template strand. For example, in yeast more than 60% of spontaneous single-base pair substitutions and deletions are likely caused by translesion synthesis.  Another significant source of mutation is an inaccurate DNA repair process, non-homologous end joining, that is often employed in repair of DNA double-strand breaks. (Also see Mutation.)  Thus, it seems that DNA damages are the underlying cause of most spontaneous mutations, either because of error-prone replication past damages or error-prone repair of damages.

Factors that decrease genetic variability
There are many sources that decrease genetic variability in a population:
 * Habitat loss, including:
 * Habitat fragmentation produces discontinuity in an organism's habitat, so that interbreeding is limited. Fragmentation can be caused by many factors, including geological processes or a human-caused events. Fragmentation may further allow genetic drift to lower local genetic diversity.
 * Climate change is a drastic and enduring change in weather patterns. By driving species out of their fundamental niche, climate change can lower population size and consequently lower genetic variation.
 * The founder effect, which occurs when a population is founded by few individuals.

title: Genetic variability


text:
User:Bjude

Hi I'm Bjude, and I have a few things to say about a witch hunt that is running rampant through wikipedia.

Many of you will know about User:Lupo, well he's taken it upon himself to go on humour patrol and wipe many hilarious and nonoffensive edits/articles from wikipedia. He has blocked me because of this, and I find this extremely annoying as I would like to write an article on Kingston

title: User:Bjude


text:
Józef Kosacki

Józef Kosacki ( Polish pronunciation : ; born 21 April 1909 – died 26 April 1990) was a Polish professor, engineer, inventor, and an officer in the Polish Army during World War II. He is best known as the inventor of the Polish mine detector, the first portable mine detector, whose basic design has been in use with various armies for over 50 years.

Life
Before World War II, Kosacki was a technician in the Artillery Department of the Polish Ministry of National Defense. Shortly before the war, he joined the clandestine Special Signals Unit, a secret institute that worked on electronic appliances for the army. Following the 1939 invasion of Poland, he managed to get to the United Kingdom, where he continued his service in the Polish Army as a signals officer. In 1941 he devised his Polish Mine Detector. It was to be used for the first time in action on Second Battle of El Alamein. Five hundred of these detectors were issued to Eighth Army. They doubled the speed at which heavily mined sands could be cleared, from 100 to 200 meters an hour. The device was used until the 1991 Gulf War.

After the war, he returned to Poland, where he became a pioneer of electronics and nuclear machinery. For many years he held the chair in electronics at the Institute for Nuclear Research at Otwock - Świerk. He was also a professor at the Military Technical Academy in Warsaw. He died in 1990 and was buried with military honors.

Legacy
In 2005 the Wrocław-based Military Institute for Engineering Technology (WITI) was named for him. This Institute has the first prototype Polish mine detector built by Kosacki.

Name
During World War II, Kosacki's name was classified in order to protect his family, which had remained behind in German-held Poland. Therefore, most of his patents were submitted under pseudonyms, including "Józef Kos," "Kozacki" and "Kozak." As a result, his surname is often given erroneously in postwar historiography.

title: Józef Kosacki


text:
Talk:Love Profusion

Nothing Fails?!
Mmm.... the title of this article is "Love Profusion", so it starts off talking about "Nothing Fails" instead, and eventually makes some vague reference to the song mentioned in the title. WTF, and what a badly-written mess.

Song meaning, instrumentation, production??
Can someone add any of this information to the article because I do believe it needs to be expanded. Underneath-it-All 04:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

This page has weasel words and is unneutral. It claims general opinions by fans without providing any references or sources.

The article is NOT neutral. It makes sweeping generalisations of fan responses without any references, and reads heavily like a fanzine.

User Andrez removing content from article
what is your rationale for removing sourced content from the article? — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 14:40, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Per WP:SCHOLARSHIP, "Wikipedians should never interpret the content of primary sources for themselves. See No original research." We don't interpret things to place our own genre on it. If they didn't say that in the article, we don't apply a genre ourselves. Simple as that. Thoughts? Andrzejbanas (talk) 14:42, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Do not add silly tags to the article since you cannot comprehend simple English. The source clearly says it as electronica-meets-folk which is folktronica so if you are deleting it, you are actually being disruptive to the point of WP:IDONTHEARIT between potaeeetos and potaaaatos. And please I'm more than aware of WP:OR. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 14:48, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not actually. This is a low thing article, you have not addressed my point that you can't interpret things like that from an article. So unless you can point out by quoting rules like I have where I'm wrong, maybe you should consider the fact that your edit is wrong. Andrzejbanas (talk) 14:52, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not interpreting anything from any article, the source itself is present in the article recording section "According to a writer from The Arizona Republic, it is an electronica-meets-folk song and is ... It is you who started the revert in the first place without reading the article, how difficult it is to see this? — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 14:56, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * If the article doesn't actually use the word "folktronica", it can't be used as a reference for folktronica as a genre.—Kww(talk) 14:59, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
 * , it directly uses electronica and folk, can we use that then? — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 01:37, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I would think so, yes.—Kww(talk) 02:51, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Then that settles it I guess what do you think Andrz? — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 05:29, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * No, still not what the source says. Find a specific source. Madonna is a huge artist, I'm sure you can find a source for this song. Andrzejbanas (talk) 10:54, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I do not follow. Are you clearly denying the source? electronica-meetsfolk? Sorry I find this disruptive. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 11:04, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you find it distruptive. "electronica-meets folk" is fine, "Electronica, Folk" in the genre is not. It's not what the source says. As stated before, this is Madonna, I'm sure you can find a stronger genre source than that. I'm trying to make the article stronger, not cause problems, so please don't accuse me of this. Andrzejbanas (talk) 11:36, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * You need to explain why electronica-meets-folk is not the genre. WP:COMMONSENSE says so, I can drag this through RFC if you want. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 14:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, it's a vague description and not a specific genre. As it's not a known genre that has it's own article, we can only interpret to what it means. As I stated since the begining, Per WP:SCHOLARSHIP, "Wikipedians should never interpret the content of primary sources for themselves.". Since we can only assume what the author was trying to say, we can't just tag our own genres. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:50, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Andrz, I'm not advocating adding folktronica to the article, electronica and folk can both be separate gernres as Kww explained. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 16:18, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * That is interpretation because it's not what the article says. Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:11, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It indeed says that. You are misinterpreting or not understanding the meaning (not sure which one it is). — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 19:52, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Its been over a week I'm yet to hear a response from you Andrez. — Indian: BIO  · [ ChitChat ] 10:58, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://community.theolympian.com/entertainment/content/soundaffects/20031105/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080517060814/http://www.stylusmagazine.com/reviews/madonna/american-life.htm to http://www.stylusmagazine.com/reviews/madonna/american-life.htm

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:37, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Love Profusion. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131029202308/http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/music_review.asp?ID=1430 to http://www.slantmagazine.com/music/music_review.asp?ID=1430

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 14:17, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Love Profusion