text:
Capping Show

The Capping Show is the name given to the University of Otago student's association revue. It has run since 1894, making it the world's longest continuously running student revue show in the world. The Cambridge University Footlights are often cited as the longest running student revue, but whilst Footlights stopped for several years during the world wars, the Otago Capping Show have held a show every year since 1894. Each year the Capping Show is roughly 2 hours long and made up of comedy sketches and musical numbers. It touches on many of the current and not so current events of the past few years, satirizing people and problems in an uncommonly brash manner. Since the University of Otago is located in Dunedin, a good section of the show makes fun of the Dunedin and the university. It is currently being performed at the College Auditorium at the University of Otago. Previous locations include the Princess (later the St James) Theatre, His Majesty's Theatre (later Sammy's nightclub), the Mayfair Theatre, the Regent Theatre, the Town Hall and Castle lecture theatre.

The Capping Show also features the comic talents of the Sexytet, the traditional Capping Sextet, and the Selwyn Ballet. At the height of its popularity, the Capping Concert produced almost half the yearly income of the Otago University Students' Association. In 1909, one performance was used a fundraiser for the projected Students' Union Building (the building on the corner of Leith and Union Streets now occupied by the Allen Hall Theatre). Wes Faulkner was the musical director for the show for twenty years between 1949 and 1969. His daughter, Jane Faulkner-Beaumont, conducted the centennial performance in 1994.

Format
The show has generally followed the same format since the late-1990s, although there have been minor alterations.

Management
Capping Show is produced by an event coordinator from the Otago University Students' Association, and all other crew members are current students or recent graduates. The show writers and actors are all current students. The show is currently being produced by Dane Oates, who took over the show from producer Shannon van Rooijen after 2022 show.

Main Sketch
A main sketch was introduced by Roger Hall and Lisa Warrington in the late 1980s to introduce structure to the show. The main sketch has a central theme that is followed through its various scenes. The theme is usually either based on a pop culture movie/book (e.g Batman) or a general idea (e.g. the end of the world). The current format of the main sketch involves 4 video segments and 4 stage segments split across the show.

Sketches
A majority of the show is made up of single sketches. These sketches are unrelated from the main sketch and usually resolved by the end of the scene. In rare occasions, the sketch may link with another sketch later on. The length of the sketches can range from very short (~10 s) to quite long (4–5 min).

Video Sketches
Since 2000, video sketches have been introduced to the show. Originally used only in the main sketch, they recently expanded to stand alone sketches as a way of covering scene changes. Now they are a vital part of both the main and single sketches. They are displayed on a projector screen next to the stage.

Musical Numbers
The show usually contains a musical number at the opening and closing of the show. Both numbers are themed with the main sketch and involve the full cast. The lyrics of the songs chosen are changed to relate to the show. The music is usually played by a live band, though in some years the music and lyrics have been pre-recorded. While it does not happen every year, other musical numbers can occur throughout the show that don't relate to the main sketch.

Sextet
The Capping Sextet is a male voice ensemble consisting of six members who sing three songs during each half of the show. Early surviving records show a group called 'The Coons' appearing in 1903. Although it is not clear what they sang, the majority of material in the early concerts was topical. In 1905 the group was listed as the ‘Coon Tableau and Cake Walk’ and in 1906 they were called a ‘Character Quartette’. 1910 saw their number increase to a ‘Quintette’ and as early as 1911 the group was becoming famous for their topical songs. These were sometimes as long as 15 verses, with each verse commenting on a different local or campus-based topic. The first time the name ‘Sextette’ was used was in 1912, however the group numbered five from 1913 to 1915. With the outbreak of World War I, Capping Concerts from 1916 to 1918 were suspended. 1919 saw the return of the show and the return of a ‘Quintette’. It is in this year that we have the earliest known member of the group – Amos Robinson McKegg, who was a member from 1919 to 1921. His son Robert was a member from 1956 to 1961.

By the 1920s the responsibility of delivering topical verses during the show was now falling almost exclusively on the Sextet. From 1922 to 1925 the group always had six members, and this then fixed the name Sextet. A student at the university during this period, Arthur Porritt (later Queen's Surgeon and Governor General of New Zealand), recalled that, ‘they were always an excellent turn – topical, amusing, lively and energetic’.

Originally the Sextet appeared in dinner suits and later tailcoats and from the 1930s they sang one half of the show in clown costumes. Due to WWII, Capping Concerts were suspended from 1942 to 1944. Herbert ‘Barney’ G. Feltham was given the responsibility of resurrecting the Sextet in 1945. Among the members at this time was Bryan Drake who would go on to create various roles in world premieres of music by Benjamin Britten.

Keith Monagan, a member from 1948 to 1951, recalled in a letter that ‘To attain membership of the Sextet was the height of ‘having arrived’ at university. It was tremendous fun, very much drunken fun, but we were serious in that we practised a great deal…’ This status was reflected in the group being given the stars’ dressing room at the St James Theatre.

In the 1960s the show was so popular that three long play records of the Sextet and other musical parts of the show were made. With the inclusion of women now standard, a group of women decided it was time for a female Sextet. The ODT commented ‘year by year the male domination of the Capping Concert has been whittled away. This year comes the final blow to the tradition. The most exclusive of institutions, the all-male Varsity Sextet, has been joined by a Sextette. The girls do a good job, but their voices are not strong enough and most of their words are lost'. (ODT 3 May 1966).

The female group did not survive at this time but the involvement of women with the Sextet continued in 1969 when Jane Faulkner became the Sextet pianist. She later went on to become Music Director of the group from 1970–1972.

The Sextet and its equally long running companion Selwyn Ballet lapsed in 1973 as the Capping Committee decided to put on a play. The revue format of the show returned in 1975 and the Sextet and Selwyn Ballet resumed their traditional duties. The man given the job of resurrecting the Sextet was Simon Skinner. He contacted then music student Richard Madden. Richard and his brother Gerald, both from a musical family and members of the St Paul’s Cathedral Choir, brought in friends who also had good musical and choral backgrounds. They were given free licence to do what they wanted with the format, but knew that songs of the topical nature were part of the show’s history. It was at this time that the 4–6-part harmony developed through the arranging skills of Richard Madden and the influence of a visit to Dunedin by the Kings’ Singers in 1972. Thus, audiences began to enjoy the Sextet not only for their wit but also the arrangements that they performed. During the late 1970s, Marama Singers was also a male group run by Dr Patrick Little, and eventually repertoire from the two groups began to merge.

1975 saw the introduction of pierrot make-up. This, along with the clown costumes, immediately identifies the group to the public and continues today.

Since the late 1970s the group has continued to go from strength to strength helped by the creative wit of the members, the famous arrangements done by Prof John Drummond, and lyrics supplied to them from the late Nigel Eastgate. Never a member of the group, Nigel penned the legendary ‘Sideways,’ ‘Tight Mistress’ and ‘Tired of Muldoon’ lyrics as well as dozens of topical songs for more than 40 years for the group.

Keith Stronach, a member in the early 1930s, kept sending lyrics to the group for more than 20 years. Similarly, Bill Hilliker, a member in 1929, 1933 and 1934, maintained a lifelong interest in the Sextet, auditioning members until the early 1960s. Ian C. Robertson sang in the group in the early 1960s but continued to assist them musically until 1969. It is people such as these that, along with the dedicated members that has enabled the Sextet to survive.

Notable former members include Peter Chin, Sir William Southgate, Bryan Drake, Dr John Borrie, Geoffrey de Lautour, Roger Wilson, Piri Sciascia, Richard Madden, Martin Snell, Simon O'Neill, Jonathan Lemalu, Tecwyn Evans, and Robbie Schmidt.

Less well-known members include Mark Wigglesworth, Dominic Edmond, and Jack Fisher.

Recently, some songs have stuck with students at Otago University, becoming known as 'modern classics'. These songs include the ever-loved 'Uncle Kevin' (Slice of Heaven), 'Jerkin It' (Tragedy/Money, Money, Money), 'Vape' (Faith), and 'Pepperoni With Stuffed Crust' (Another One Bites the Dust).

Sexytet
The Sexytet is the female a cappella singing group, formed as a all-girls counterpart to the sextet. The sexytet have been widely cited as forming in 2001, but footage in the OUSA archive shows a female a capella group performing in the 2000 Capping Show, and a thesis on the Sextet in the Hocken recounts the Sexytet being part of the show as early as 1999. They perform in both the first and second half of the show. The group rewrites and arranges popular songs. Their now-traditional outfit echoes a 1950s housewife, with a new pattern every year. In the most recent survey of show participants the Sexytet were rated as the most popular part of the show.

Selwyn Ballet
The Selwyn Ballet is a traditionally all-male ballet company made up of students from the Selwyn College, Otago. Formed in 1928, they are the oldest ballet company in New Zealand. They traditionally perform a ballet number at the end of the first half. In 2023 the ballet included girls from Selwyn College for the first time in the form of an opening Drum & Bass themed sketch introducing the ballet, with the girls then joining back in towards the end of the ballet.

Other Items
Over the years Capping Concerts have included orchestral and band items, waxworks, magic acts, skating acts, haka, negro spirituals, Knox and faculty farces, modern dance (contributed by Dance Arts, the pioneering New Zealand modern dance company based at the Phys Ed school), Dunedin Sound rock groups (Sneaky Feelings and the Verlaines), a Roger Hall play ("The Quiz" in its world premiere production) and female impersonators. It was only after the Second World War that women appeared on stage in the Capping Concerts. The most artistically ambitious period of the Capping Concert's history was the early 1970s when, under the direction of Marshall Seifert, Feet (a parody version of Hair), compressed versions of Jesus Christ, Superstar and Tommy were presented along with two original rock operas, one inspired by a Colin McCahon painting and the other written by members of the successful Dunedin rock group, Mother Goose.

Best of
Occasionally, usually every three years, a show is put on as part of the Dunedin Fringe Festival. Usually 40 minutes long, it consists of sketches from the previous three years of capping show. The most recent one was in the 2011 Fringe festival.

Controversies
In 1972, the show was criticised for being "full of naughty, behind-hand grot humor  '' and in 1974, the show took a more trippy and psychedelic turn, with attendees reported to be on acid.

In 2010, Rape Crisis Dunedin accused the Sextet of trivialising rape and sexual abuse. In response, the line within the offending Sextet song was removed. Rape Crisis Dunedin declined to be the Otago University Students Association (OUSA) official Capping Show charity for that year. Rape Crisis Dunedin was the official Capping Show charity again in 2014.

Capping Show themes

 * 2024 – Beezie
 * 2023 – Back To The Flat
 * 2022 – Campus Nine-Nine
 * 2021 – Larry Thotter And The Chambers Of The Bong
 * 2020 – Flatatouille
 * 2019 – The Lord of the Degrees
 * 2018 – Scarfie Things
 * 2017 – The Cat in the Cap
 * 2016 – Making Grad
 * 2015 – Campus Watch
 * 2014 – A Capping Carol: The Night Before Hyde Street
 * 2013 – The Wizard of Capping Show
 * 2012 – Capocalypse
 * 2011 – Let There Be Capping Show
 * 2010 – Alice in Cappingland
 * 2009 – Ghostbusters
 * 2008 – The Capping Show Begins
 * 2007 – Pirates of the Capping Show: The Curse of the Pearl Necklace
 * 2006 – 2 Crass 2 Humorous
 * 2005 – Back to the Capping Show
 * 2004 – 007: You Only Laugh Twice
 * 2003 – Scarfie Wars
 * 2002 – Harry Pothead gets the Philosopher Stoned
 * 2001 – Hannabel Lecturer
 * 2000 – Scarfies
 * 1999 – Otagotubbies
 * 1998 – Spice
 * 1997 – Up The Deep End
 * 1996 – The Y Files
 * 1995 – The Jesus Christ Not Again Capping Show
 * 1994 – Still Crazy After All These Years (Centenary show)
 * 1993 - The Valley of the Moa
 * 1992 - Aladdin & His Wonderful Lamp
 * 1991 - Scarfie Trek
 * 1990 – Hokonui Jones and the Sword of Destiny
 * 1989 – Peters Pantomime
 * 1988 - The Wozard of IZ
 * 1987 - Unknown
 * 1986 - Jack and the Beanstalk
 * 1985 - Cinderella
 * 1984 – Robin Hood
 * 1983 - Unknown
 * 1982 - Unknown
 * 1981 – The King and Di
 * 1980 - F.Alice in Wonderland
 * 1979 - Knight In Knight Out
 * 1978 - The Last Great Capping Show?
 * 1977 - Capricious Cabaret
 * 1976 - The Great White Elephant Show
 * 1975 - The End
 * 1894 to 1974 - Unknown

Notable Former Members

 * David McPhail – Actor/Writer
 * Jon Gadsby – Actor/Writer
 * Derek Payne - Television Presenter
 * Graeme Wardrop - Guitarist
 * Jeremy Elwood – Stand Up Comedian/Actor
 * Simon McKinney – Stand Up Comedian/Actor
 * Matt Gibb – Children's Television Host
 * Tom Hazledine – Director/actor
 * Chris Taine – Documentary Director
 * Josh Thomson – Stand Up Comedian/Actor/Director
 * Roger Hall – Playwright
 * Brent Hodge – Documentary Director/Producer
 * Serena Cotton – Actor
 * Samantha Jukes – Actor
 * Timothy Foley – Actor
 * Julie Noever – Theatre Director
 * Mark Neilson – Actor/Writer
 * Sam Smith – Writer/Comedian
 * Andrew Munro – Actor
 * Louise Beuvink – Comedian
 * Jesse Griffin – Comedian

title: Capping Show


text:
Châtenay, Ain

Châtenay is a commune in the Ain department in eastern France.

Geography
The Veyle flows north through the middle of the commune and forms part of its northern border.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Châtenay, Ain


text:
User talk:SeanMcG

Greetings
Regarding your question about the architecture of Iran, please explain a bit more. Im afraid I didnt quite understand what youre asking about.--Zereshk 23:14, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmmm. You mean like a western style (e.g. colonial) that can be seen in Iran today?--Zereshk 23:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

 * The colonial thing was my question to you. No one in Iran (save academics) even know what a colonial style is. The style of building is quite dependent on the geographical area. In the northern provinces, roofs are traditionally sloped. But in cities, and particularly in drier areas, roofs are flat, perhaps not unlike Albequerque. Nowadays, architecture is the least element considered in building and construction. Profit and mass production are in priority. That's why Tehran (and most other big cities in Iran) look like a bastardized Soviet city, despite its many individual gems. The urban fabric is oversaturated and isnt able to accomodate its population. That's why I tried to focus mainly on the traditional architecture of Iran, which has a rich history, style, and literature of its own. I dont know if this'll help any.--Zereshk 00:09, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

 * If residential stuff is what youre after, then see Kashan and Shiraz, Iran for some examples. See also the gallery of photos I took here. Kashan is particularly rich in traditional residential architecture.--Zereshk 00:31, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

 * (PS: if the last link doesnt work, Refresh it.)--Zereshk 00:32, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks man!
You can use any part of the formatting that you want. And also thanks for the offer for the information, I will give u a buzz if I need anything. Also I saw you were intrested in Iranian history stuff. I'm working on a large website and if you want to come on board, I'm just a message away. --( Aytakin ) | Talk 00:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah, I read it a couple of months ago. Another good book is "Shah of Shahs" by Kapuściński. I'll contact you in a few days about the website. --( Aytakin ) | Talk 00:36, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

The address for the website is and also I have a wiki for information on Iran, the website for that is. --( Aytakin ) | Talk 23:29, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Hey!!

Re: 71.131.2.251
No, I'm not an admin... I looked over the changes from 71.131.2.251 and, as I understand it, they aren't current enough to warrant a banning (which is usually only for 24 hours, and generally requires several reverts in the last few hours). Check out Vandalism, which shows some of the guidelines. For what it's worth, the IP is on my (and I'm sure several others who use 3rd-party tools to monitor changes) blacklist and he'll get shut down pretty quick if he starts vandalizing again. - Dharmabum420 06:36, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Iran Website
Hey man, Yeah, I'm following the whole nuclear program story. I'm kind of scared to see what's gonna happen. Also, I have my finals too. But they end Febuary 1st. And I wanted to tell you that I changed the address for the wiki, to. So, good luck on your exams. Bye--( Aytakin ) | Talk 12:08, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Rasmuffin Productions
Technically articles about websites generally can't be speedy deleted, and since the author contests the speedy deletion... I've removed both tags. This will need to go to AfD in my opinion. If you need help or want me to list it for AfD, just let me know. Thanks. --W.marsh 03:44, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

2003 invasion of Iraq
Hi there, when trying to go over the discussion at 2003 invasion of Iraq I saw it has become a big mess. If I see it correctly there was a conflict between an anon and others and now the page has been blocked. I think the anon had a point that an encyclopedia article about any military conflict should not be written exclusively by three members of one the conflicting parties, in this case Pookster11, Swatjester, and Dawgknot who according to this comment all belong to the US military. I therefore suggest to get more people into the boat, that should take the wind out of the sails of bias allegations. As I saw you also edited on that page, would you be willing to help out? Get-back-world-respect 22:25, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Use of welcome template
I noticed that your welcomed User:Jen99 (User talk:Jen99). When you copy the text of the welcome template make sure you copy the text in the edit window. Otherwise (as as happened on Jen99's talk page), a lot of the links/info get buggered up. I'll let you fix up User:Jen99's welcome, or just ask and I'll do it for you.--Commander Keane 21:41, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

CSA To Do list
I see you nominated the To do list for an article for speedy deletion as nonsense. While I understand, by itself, a to do list doesn't make complete sense, do you not think that's a litle too harsh? I can't take the db off myself, obviously, but I was in the process of asking for help with the article as per WP:AID, and one of the requirements was a to do list on the article. Could this be a mistake perhaps, and not knowing this wasn't a main article? MartinRe 00:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No worries, I see you're removed it, thanks! Thanks for the note as well. :) MartinRe 00:22, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

The "Arabian" Penninsula
That is home to all the semitic tribes not just the Arabs so why should it be named after them. The Akkadians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Arameans, Chaldeans all orinigated from there. That is my implication that it is NOT Arab in origin.King Legit The Arabs call the Persian gulf the Arabian gulf. In my eyes it should the Sumerian Gulf.

 * Actually Sean, The name isn't out dated. The Shiite south actually thought of reinstating the name. One of the proposed names of the southern portion of Iraq if it's to cecede is the Islamic Republic of Sumer.King Legit

 * I honestly don't care if you don't believe me. This one of the plethora of rumors that I've heard about Iraq. I here news all the time through relatives. As far as credible sources, most of the times they're right albeit exaggerated a bit. I guarantee a full scale civil war very soon. You'll see. I predicted this before the US even invaded, it would have happened once Saddam was gone regaurdless, this has been brewing since the first British occupation of the country. Turmoil has to be forever entagled in the middle east, read about the history. Every great civilization that's tryed to conquer Babylon has received it's very same fate.King Legit

My RfA
With apologies for the impersonal AWB-ness of the message... Thanks for your support on my recent request for adminship. It passed at 91/1/0, and I hope I can continue to deserve the community's trust. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you, and if I make a mistake be sure to tell me. My talk page is always open. (ESkog)(Talk) 02:31, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Mohammad Mossadegh page
hey man, I'll start working on the mossadegh page A.S.A.P. by the way, where have you been? Its been a while. --( Aytakin ) | Talk 17:55, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

responded
Responded on the Iraq War talk page. ⇒   SWAT Jester     Ready    Aim    Fire!  09:59, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi Sean
Hi Sean. --( yooni )

Happy Wikipedia's 1 MILLIONTH!!
Happy Wikipedia's 1 MILLIONTH!! --( Aytakin ) | Talk 23:13, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikiethics
Hi,

We started a proposal Wikiethics to state the existing policies coherently and make suggestions on improving the editorial standards in Wiki. I thought you might be interested in contributing to that proposal.

Unfortunately, a pro-porn and pro-offense lobby is trying to make this proposal a failure. They unilaterally started an approval poll although almost no one including me believe that it is time for a vote, simply because the policy is not ready. It is not even written completely.

Editors who thinks that the policy needs to be improved rather than killed by an unfair poll at the beginning of the proposal, started another poll ('Do we really need a poll at this stage?') at the same time. The poll is vandalized for a while but it is stable now. A NO vote on this ('Do we really need a poll now?') poll will strengthen the position of the editors who are willing to improve the ethics policy further.

If you have concerns about the ethics and editorial standards in Wiki, please visit the page Wikiethics with your suggestions on the policy. We have two subpages: Arguments and Sections. You might want to consider reviewing these pages as well...

Thanks in advance. Resid Gulerdem 22:12, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Speed Demon Community
Thanks for the note. In answer to your inquiry, the SDC article is orphaned and appears to exist solely as a means of promoting an external link (which is does not appear to meet the tests of WP:EL) to an otherwise unnotable discussion forum. The article does not appear to really impart any significant information, and the only way someone would run across it is if they were specifically looking for it. Not being a pianist myself, it is certainly possible that this article could be worked into something useful, but I think it's a stretch. Twisted86 03:12, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

CPS article
Thanks for your constructiveadditions to the CPS entry. Especially seeing where you go to school... :) Her Pegship 02:42, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Old Skool Esperanzial note
Since this isn't the result of an AC meeting, I have decided to go Old Skool. This note is to remind you that the elections are taking place now and will end at 23:50 UTC on 2006-04-29. Please vote here. Thanks. --Cel es tianpower háblame 20:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

A short Esperanzial update
As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.

As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Esperanza/June 2006 elections.

Thanks and kind, Esperanzial regards, —Cel es tianpower háblame 16:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Islamic Barnstar Award
Please offer your opinion, vote, or whatever about your choice for the image to be used with the Islamic Barnstar Award at the Barnstar proposals page. Although there is consensus for the concept of an Islamic Barnstar Award, some editors would like to change the image for the award. I was just thinking you should be aware of this discussion because you have contributed to Islamic-related articles, received the Islamic Barnstar Award, or have contributed to the Islam-related Wikiprojects, etc.--JuanMuslim 1m 16:20, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Personal attack
As I'm sure you're aware, since you're supposedly part of the anti-vandalism force here on WP, the paragraph you restored to The College Preparatory School constitutes a personal attack. Not only that, but you edited it several times, showing that you were aware of the content. I would like an explanation as to why you restored the paragraph, and an apology for doing so. You may leave a message on this page, which I will be watching. Mrs. Hamilton ("fascist bitch") at 68.122.14.4 04:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Okay I was NOT the first username, and that's not my sockpuppet. Futhermore, I did not edit, rather someone using this screename on my computer did so. And I deleted it after I noticed it was there (check the edit log) so i'm absolved from this matter. --SeanMcG 01:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I see the mixup. You didn't know that my IP is 69.105.225.201, because I wasn't signed it when I got rid of it. --SeanMcG 01:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for blanking it, and you might want to change your password. And if you know who made the edit, you may refer them to speak to me personally rather than hiding behind your account. Apparently Lick students are of a higher caliber than those at CPS, at least one of them. Thanks again. Mrs. H 68.122.14.4 03:06, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

What is your rationale for making these broad judgments, Mrs. Hamilton?#REDIRECT User:Mohammedrafi
 * I don't believe that's any of your business, unless you're one of the parties involved, in which case please identify yourself. Thank you. Mrs. H 68.122.14.4 22:50, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Just a question, why was someone who was absolutely not culpable whatsoever for this ad hominum interogated today at CPS? --SeanMcG 19:35, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * A personal attack on a member of faculty by a student is a very serious offense. I support interrogation of any students at CPS who may be remotely suspected or involved. Mipchunk 00:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * First off, you're not involved. Second off, interrogation of ANY student? That's absurd. The blame should be placed off this one individual and ON to whoever therlaender is, and this can easily be found out by an ISP check. I'm sure any computer administrator at CPS can figure out how to. --69.105.225.201 02:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)--> This was SeanMcG
 * I may not be directly involved, but I too watch the CPS WP article and am a CPS student, so it is in my interest that I see this issue through. I didn't say that the blame should be placed on whoever this individual is. An interrogation implies asking students question in relation to the issue. Also, it's possible to do ISP checks on users? Hrm, I thought that only WP admins with checkuser could do that... But anyways, who was it who used your account to restore the vandalism? If you know, it would immediately place the blame off whichever individual that is being wrongfully accused. Mipchunk 02:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well the problem is there are two users involved: someone from my school who used my account, and Tharleander who is probably someone from CPS. And yes, an IP check would have to be done by an admin --SeanMcG 04:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply to Sean
I want to thank you for your comments and your defense of the person interviewed this morning. I/we never suspected for a moment that that person was responsible for the edit; the interview was primarily to mutually gather and impart information. I hope to reassure the party concerned on that account. Our inquiries are proceeding and I can't really discuss them here, but I hope for a positive resolution, or at least a stop to the abuse. Cheers, 68.122.14.4 03:06, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

November Esperanza Newsletter
For your reading pleasure, the newest Esperanza newsletter (November '06 edition) can be found at Esperanza/Newsletter. —Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, The Halo, Shreshth91 and HighwayCello, 20:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Reilly
Yeah man, it's me. -- Ci e lomobile talk / contribs 07:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Invitation
I've seen your edits to Bay Area-related topics, such as Lick-Wilmerding High School, so I was wondering if you would join WikiProject San Francisco Bay Area. It's a WikiProject that focuses on improving Wikipedia's coverage of the Bay Area. If you'd like to join, just add your name to the member list. Thanks for reading! — Emiellaiendiay 07:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Welcome
— Emiellaiendiay 01:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Jumpaclass
This is an invitation to use WP:BAY's Jumpaclass option for improving articles. If you're working on any Bay Area-related stub, start, or B-class articles, simply add their names to the list, and if any of the articles improve a class within a week, you'll be recognized for your contributions. If you have any questions about how it works, post on the talk page or on mine. Thanks for reading! — Emiellaiendiay 21:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Hello there
hey Hey hey. Julian Maestas 19:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

WP:CVU status
The Counter-Vandalism Unit project is under consideration to be moved to and/or  status. Another proposal is to delete or redirect the project. You have been identified as a project member and your input as to this matter would be welcomed at WT:CVU and at the deletion debate. Thank you! Delivered on behalf of xaosflux 16:35, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject San Francisco Bay Area roll call
Hello from WikiProject San Francisco Bay Area!

As part of a recent update to our project main page we are conducting a roll call to check which members are still active and interested in working on bay area related content. If you are still interested in participating, simply move your username from the inactive section of the participant list to the active section. I hope you will find the redesigned project pages helpful, and I wanted to welcome you back to the project. If you want you can take a look at the newly redesigned:

 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app Community Help.png|25px|]]Main Page
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app Login Manager.png|25px|]]Talk page
 * [[Image:Broom icon.svg|25px|]]Cleanup listing
 * [[Image:Template icon.svg|25px|]]Template list

As well as the existing pages:
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app clean.png|25px|]]Assessment
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app kedit.png|25px|]]Article Worklist
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear app kdict.png|25px|]]Watchlist
 * [[Image:Crystal Clear action editdelete.png|25px|]] Deletion sorting (California)

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask at the project talk page, and add it to your watchlist, if it isn't already.

Again, hi! -Optigan13 (talk) 07:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Nomination of Eugene Tsui for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Eugene Tsui is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Eugene Tsui until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Bishonen | talk 16:48, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

title: User talk:SeanMcG


text:
Category:Australian criminals

Australian criminals are Australians who have been convicted of crime of a notable nature or notable Australians who have been convicted of serious crimes.

title: Category:Australian criminals


text:
Template talk:Primary sources

Template-protected edit request on 4 October 2022
"This article relies too much on references to primary sources" is a wordy sentence—"This article relies excessively on references to primary sources" flows much better and falls in line with other similar templates. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:44, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

 * ✅ per WP:BOLD — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:48, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Failing test section + BLP=yes
, can you look at test which appears to be failing? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 10:25, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * That is why I added the tests. The code does not cope with both BLP and Section together — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 10:47, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The test now fails "correctly"!? — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 11:11, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

OK now to sync the sandbox back to live? — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 10:43, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Took me a moment to remember why I did this, but it still seems valid. It is to cope with both section and at the same time. The tests seem clean. Thanks  for the catch — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 11:02, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ * Pppery * it has begun... 20:22, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 22 November 2022
I think the wording of the template should convey the significant misuse of primary sources, as opposed to excessive. Excessive seems to imply overwhelming usage, which is not always the case even when a template might be appropriate (particularly when used for sections small enough to have used a small number of sources, and where primary sources might only be misused one or a couple of times). Perhaps it should be changed to something along the lines of "This article inappropriately relies on references to primary sources," or simply "This article relies on references to primary sources." TheGEICOgecko (talk) 00:16, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 5 December 2022
Please add "Article" between "this" and "by" Lina211 Follow your dreams  03:07, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

 * Should be clear enough from the context of the message; this ought to be a "less is more" situation IMO. —Locke Cole • t • c 03:45, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ For some reason, the template did not match the documentation. Having "this" without a word following it was grammatically awkward. I added "article" as the default, per the documentation.  – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:53, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 17 April 2023
Change "secondary or tertiary sources." to "secondary or tertiary sources to this section." if parameter 1 is section. Timothytyy (talk) 13:34, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: if this were edited, then the sentence would read: "Please improve this section by adding secondary or tertiary sources to this section," which would use the word "section" twice and sound strange.  P.I. Ellsworth  , ed.  put'er there 16:28, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Primary sources


text:
Momoko 120%

Momoko 120% (モモコ120%) is a 1986 arcade game by Jaleco released in Japan. The game was originally intended to be an Urusei Yatsura game, but for an unknown reason the license was not obtained for the arcade version—while the characters were changed, "Lum's Love Song" — the first opening theme of the first anime adaptation, still loops throughout the game. However, the Family Computer port retained the license and was titled Urusei Yatsura: Lum's Wedding Bell. The game was re-released for mobile phones in Japan on February 28, 2006. Three mobile phone sequels, Momoko 1200%, Momoko 1200% in Machigai Sagashi and Momoko no Kasei Bowling ~La Mars Cup~, were released in Japan only in 2006.

Gameplay
This platform game features Momoko, a young Japanese girl who ages by several years each time the player reaches the next level. The goal for each level is to quickly climb several floors by escalator, ladder, or trampoline in the building she is in before the fire that is below her reaches her. These level settings start out from grade school settings to office type buildings. While jumping over obstacles, she must shoot various alien-like enemies that come after her on each floor. She can upgrade her weapon by destroying certain enemies as well as entering special hidden doorways which feature minigames which require you to jump obstacles. These doorways can also be used as a short-cut, and sometimes they are mandatory to be used in order to climb to the next floor. When Momoko reaches the top floor of a level, she must jump onto a small blimp flying above her to beat the level. Momoko begins as a four-year-old and ages through five levels. The final level is a bonus chance in which she is a twenty-year-old bride collecting items – the game concludes with her getting married, thus giving birth to a new Momoko and starting the cycle anew.

Urusei Yatsura: Lum's Wedding Bell
In Urusei Yatsura: Lum's Wedding Bell (うる星やつら ラムのウェディングベル), the player controls Lum as she grows up and has to avoid alien invaders while trying to reach her rescue UFO. The game's storyline involves a severe earthquake striking in Tomobiki-cho (the town where the Urusei Yatsura series takes place) and tearing the space-time continuum, forcing Lum to have to travel forward through time in order to be reunited with her "darling" Ataru Moroboshi.

The player starts out at infant school, then works her way to elementary school, junior high school, high school, college, and finally the player marries a bridegroom (Ataru) in a white tie outfit. After that, the game starts over again. The game has never been released outside Japan.

Reception
In Japan, Game Machine listed Momoko 120% on their October 15, 1986 issue as being the tenth most-successful table arcade unit of the month.

title: Momoko 120%


text:
Wikipedia:Peer review/List of Salt Lake City media/archive1

List of Salt Lake City media
Please note, critique of this article should follow the standards set at Featured lists.

I have worked on this list for a long time, and was wondering, barring the profusion of redlinks (I hope to correct this in the next few days), what can I do to make this list better? It is very much a dynamic list (as radio stations seem to come and go quickly here) so the information is not always static. Any suggestions to get this up to FL standards? — [[User:JonMoore|—Jo nMo ore  20:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)]] 04:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * What about historical media...newspapers, magazines, etc. that may not exist now? Just a suggestion. Ganymead 17:25, 5 October 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Gorgons

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 August 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dholz11. Peer reviewers: BaileynNelson.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 March 2021 and 11 June 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Secotuff. Peer reviewers: Studiesin..., TheOliveGreen1234567.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Relation between Greek and Irish?
Could someone tell me how old Irish and Greek are connected? AFAIK, Old Irish has no shared linguistic roots with Greek. Can anyone defend the claim (in the Origins paragraph) that these two have anything in common? Canutethegreat (talk) 21:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I never knew of the connection. Could it be some common indo-european roots? Dr.K. (talk) 21:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Thats what I was wondering, but it seems unlikely that old Gaelic Irish would have any relationship to Old Greek, regardless of the indo european group. If that is the case then could someone cite that? My goal is to either clarify it as a fact or if it is false get rid of it all together. It also seems like a stretch to compare terrible to wild. Can the person who made that edit confirm this as a fact? Canutethegreat (talk) 22:42, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with your points. Maybe someone can clarify this. Dr.K. (talk) 22:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

 * The Celts and Greeks are connected via both Gothic tribes and Gaulish tribes which had contact with both. Also, Greek vessals did sail as far north as the british isles.  Lastly, much that is found in Irish mythology has been tainted by Roman influences. 72.185.169.135 (talk) 21:57, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Wrong information
I'm reading about Perseus in mythology class. It wasn't the gorgons who had one one tooth and one eye, it was the Graiae. ZeWrestler  Talk 04:07, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Perseus was given the reflective sheild by athena not the Graiae who actually tried to trick him into looking at Medusa. I'm also pretty sure it was Persus and also the Medusa and the Gorgon have the exact description on other websites and stuff why is this??Ageus13 13:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)Ageus13

Gorgons and Graiae
I agree with ZeWrestler. Gorgons and Graiae were different monsters (and probably, ancient peoples). IonnKorr 18:12, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * This is true- the Graiae actually rveealed the Gorgons whereabouts to Perseus when he stole their eye and held it for ransom- they were supposedly all related though. (unsigned)

Gorgons and Carians
It is possible that Gorgons or Gorgones were the "monster-mutation", through Greek mythology, of Carians and Cretans (two pirate peoples who lived at coast of south-western Asia Minor and in island of Crete ). Both were the terror of sailors who have been travelled in Eastern Meditteranian, in second half of 2nd millennium B.C. IonnKorr 15:43, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I know this comment is old, but where did you come up with that nonsense? I hope there isn't some book out there making sch a shoddy claim. Gorgons were not "the terror of sailors," and other than that totally incorrect assertion there's no reason whatsoever to make a connection to pirates. DreamGuy 21:29, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Catoblepas
Gorgon is also another name for the unrelated catoblepas, and the gorgons in modern fantasy works (like Dungeons & Dragons or various Might and Magic games) are based upon it, not on Medusa and her sisters. The question is whether this confusion was already present in classical mythology, or did not occur until the Middle Ages. Does anybody know more about this? - 82.207.213.123 18:30, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

 * The confusion was already present by the Middle Ages; many bestiaries refer to creatures much like the catoblepas as "gorgon". Edward Topsell was responsible for a later bestiary that cemented this usage, but I'm a little hazy on the details and he was writing pretty well after the period (17th Century, I believe).  I believe T. H. White's The Bestiary may have some useful information on this, and the links in the Topsell article may be useful (haven't tried them yet). 12.22.250.4 22:47, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Nanas
What is the source on male gorgon? mordicai. 16:47, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no such thing. This article is still packed with second-hand tripe absorbed from Xena Warrior Princess. --Wetman 12:16, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

that bit was added from an IP address that has been warned and blocked for repeated vandalism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gorgon&diff=next&oldid=50907851). though not blatant vandalism here, the contribution is still dubious and unsourced so I removed it. anyone with relevant sources please put it back and accept my apologies. Laurent paris 03:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Gorgon's picture
The picture adds significantly to the article. it is of high resolution and it should remain. All interested users please leave your comments here. Thanks. Dr.K. 02:52, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

 * What's the reason for wanting to delete it? What's the problem here? Now I see it, from the edit summary: " the image sucks.... even in Photoshop with the Gorgon blown up it's gritty and hard to see, let alone small and uncropped and poor contrast and poorly framed photo". Essentially, someone doesn't like the image's quality. --Wetman 05:58, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Doesn;t *like*? It's not just a question of like or dislike (other than the fact that the person who put it here and shoved it back is the photographer and so is not judging it on its true merits but on the fact that he wants his photo featured), it objectively is poorly lit, and extremely badly framed (look at all the crap at the top of the photo, most of the image doesn't even contain the part we are supposed to be interested in). And I downloaded it at full resolutions thinking I'd just go in there and crop it and adjust the contrast, but it's really unsalvageable, thanks to extremely poor lighting conditions and low resolution. If it were about four times as big as it currently is, the tonal range could be cleaned up and then reduced in size to smooth out the resulting graininess, but that's not currently an option and doesn;t fix the current version, which is just bloody awful. Wikipedia is not flikr or some other photo-sharing service, an image that's included here must be useful. This one's not. 21:26, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I cannot have an intelligent conversation with a person who uses adjectives like crappy and unsubstantiated allegations such as wanting my photo to be used out of vanity etc. But hopefully other users will not stand for a single bad mannered user to dictate their taste to them and in the process deprive them from an excellent example of an original gorgon picture from early Greek antiquity. Currently as it stands you are in the minority. Another user (Wetman) obviously does not agree with you. Does he also do it out of vanity? And how many people do you need to tell you before you let them enjoy the picture? Because your personal opinion is that you don't like it you cannot possibly impose your opinion on Wkipedia. Talking about vanity! Dr.K. 22:13, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as this nonsense about poor contrast this is exactly as it appears in real life at the Corfu museum. If you visited the museum in person like I did you would know this exact contrast and lighting conditions prevail at the museum. It has nothing to do with poor photography skills. In fact an almost identical unfree picture that was used in the past looked exactly the same. Ask Carnildo about it. We had long conversations about unfree images together. Dr.K. 23:06, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Finally this image is used in the French, Italian and Hebrew Wikipedias []. I don't think I uploaded it there also! Dr.K. 23:28, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I will not revert any further out of respect for process. I will refer this to comments from users and possibly arbitration, as I have better things to do than edit warring with deletionists without a cause. Dr.K. 18:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Dr.K. told me about this and asked me to comment. I agree, the photo is not of ideal quality.  But, it is of encyclopedic value and the quality is not so bad that it loses that value.  So, I don't really understand the reasons for removal.  Someday, someone will be able to take a better picture, or clean this one up.  Until then, why not display this one?  The article doesn't seem over-illustrated or anything.  Mango juice talk 17:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, gosh, you admit that the quality is poor, but you want to keep it? Defeats the whole purpose of having an encyclopedia. We don't put up crappy photos just to have crappy photos. We've got quality standards here -- or we should, anyway. Too bad the photographer wasn't as good at taking a good photograph as he is at running around and asking editors to come support him. Is this an encyclopedia project, or some MySpace friends list sort of thing at work?DreamGuy 21:20, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, I don't think the quality is poor. I think the quality is okay: not ideal, but not bad either.  If anything, it's a decent picture of an ugly, nondescript carving.  Also, it's the only photo that depicts more than the head of the Gorgon, which is why I think it's worth keeping.  Mango juice talk 19:18, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I quote for your benefit the paragraph above:

''As far as this nonsense about poor contrast this is exactly as it appears in real life at the Corfu museum. If you visited the museum in person like I did you would know this exact contrast and lighting conditions prevail at the museum. It has nothing to do with poor photography skills. In fact an almost identical unfree picture that was used in the past looked exactly the same. Ask Carnildo about it. We had long conversations about unfree images together.''

So sorry I did not take my film crew with me when I went to the museum, brought my studio lights and the cranes needed to perfectly illuminate the huge pediment and the exhibition hall. Maybe I should have brought David Copperfield with me to make it disappear from the Museum and then rematerialise it to the Wikimedia Foundation where you could take a technically perfect picture. Dr.K. 00:10, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't take it personally, but even without additional lighting, the white balance and f-stop settings can be adjusted, different lenses could have been used, et cetera. Not to mention that different angles would make a difference.  No photograph ever depicts something "exactly as it appears in real life."  Heck, how the pediment appears one moment may not be the same as how it appears the next, because natural light isn't the same at every moment, and our eyes adjust, our color receptors become more and less sensisitve, et cetera.  Mango juice talk 19:18, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks as always Mangojuice for your comments. I agree with you and I welcome your comments since they give me an additional opportunity to explain the details of this. If you look at the picture meta data you'll see the camera was a Kodak P850. It is a great camera but it only has a 36-430 mm zoom lens. The pediment is actually lighted by artificial light and no direct sunlight at all. This is to preserve the delicate ancient reliefs of the pediment from the corrosive effects of direct sunlight. The light is provided by the floodlights at the back of the hall and it makes for uniform but not very bright illumination. I stood at the very back wall of the hall (about 30 ft) from the pediment but the 35 mm lens setting was not wide enough to take the whole pediment even at that distance. Meanwhile the flash of the P850 at that distance didn't really make much of a difference. If you Google Corfu Gorgon and look at the images you won't get a picture of the whole pediment and the contrast doesn't look much better. Maybe a 24 mm or smaller lens could take it but I only guess. At the same time since the 35 mm lens was not taking the whole structure I made a choice to show the left wing where more reliefs were present rather than the right side where not too much action existed. That made the pediment look biased to the left and the composition looked unbalanced, but I made a conscious decision to sacrifice composition for sculptural detail since my lens at 35 mm was not wide enough. As far as better picture quality just tinkering with the f stop, shutter speed settings, exposure values etc. might do it but I think that to get better results from such a huge dimly lit object one needs Hasselblad or equivalent and studio lights. So I was actually not joking entirely. But thanks again as one of your many contributions to Wikipedia that applies most to me is that you are always a source of calm, logical and welcome advice. Take care. Dr.K. 20:17, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

For the record
I am being accused that I try to put the image of the Gorgon pediment to promote myself and out of ego. Nothing could be further from the truth. I simply replaced many unfree images with GFDL ones after long conversations with Jkelly and Carnildo and donated them to Wikipedia in order to assist the project. Here is just a sample of some of my correspondence with Jkelly about the donated pictures:. Dr.K. 20:01, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep I've heard this ego crap before and it's always ridiculous. If someone can provide a better free image then go ahead.  Until then, this one can stay.  We aim to improve, not destroy.-BillDeanCarter 00:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete And in some case, improving is best handled by removing bad quality. Like this instance. It's not "destroying" in any sense of the word, it's just having expectations of quality. DreamGuy 21:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Keep, as I think it adds something to the article. I'm not at all clear on what the "quality" problem is; there's nothing obviously wrong with either the photograph or the subject.  Jkelly 23:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Vote
For interested users please vote here to keep or not the Gorgon pediment picture from the Corfu Museum. See dicussion above. Dr.K. 19:51, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Proposed removal of the Origins Section
A user has recently attempted to remove the whole origins section as in here. I am not a linguistics expert and I don't know if the information there is good, bad or indifferent. What I object to is removing whole sections without discussion. Especially if it has happened before; see here. Please share your thoughts on the complete removal of the Origins section from this article. Thank you. Dr.K. (talk) 17:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but the discussion was in the edit comment:

 * whole section is unsourced and gives pretty bad linguistic claims. That and Gimbutas claims give WP:UNDUE weight to pretty fringe ideas when no weight is given to solid info

The undue weight problem is a major violation of the WP:NPOV policy, a fundamental building block of this encyclopedia. The other claims were completely unsourced/original research. These are pretty basic concerns that require immediate action. You are, of course, free to go out and find reliable sources for these claims, document them, and then provide additional views on origins of the mythological figure from reliable sources so that NPOV is restored, but until such time the section was in violation of Wikipedia safeguards.

Regarding the Flash Gordon page, that was removed per WP:NOT and WP:ENC, plus our style guides for articles on fictional topics. There's also specifically a template for pointing out when plot details exceed any reasonable size. If editors see something wrong they are supposed to be bold and fix it. It's just how things work here. DreamGuy (talk) 20:01, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Quote: It's just how things work here I sure hope not! Coming from someone who reverts in the middle of a discussion this comment is surely a dangerous omen, if it were true. As I said before I opened this discussion to give users a chance to discuss the merits or not of keeping this section. You chose to go right over the top of this discussion and eliminate this section as if you are in such a hurry you cannot wait for a few more users to look it over and have their say. This goes against WP:Consensus. But I have better things to do than throw WP: labels around to someone who reverts in the middle of discussions. This is plain bad manners. Dr.K. (talk) 22:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I would keep the Origins section, though it may need better documention or caveats added about the speculative nature of some of the claims. Perhaps some of it could be embedded in a major edit or rewrite by someone else? SOME discussion of the origins of the Gorgon(s) would seem germane to the subject. Winslow Shea (talk) 00:22, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

The use of tags in Wikipedia
Wikipedia has many tags to put on disputed sections and articles. The reason for the existence of these tags is to afford opportunity to users to modify, correct and clean up disputed sections. Even if a section gets ultimately removed at least it gets a fair chance to be improved before it is deemed unsalvageable and gets erased. Is it too much to ask that the Origins section be given some time tagged before it gets erased? Dr.K. 22:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Delete from the Classical Tradition section most of the paragraph on the dating of Homer?
Given the brevity of this section at present, this paragraph is too long, intrusive, too technical and off-topic. For readers who would like more info on Homer, a simple link to the "Homer" article should suffice. I would save only the last sentence of it (rewritten for coherence with the context). Winslow Shea (talk) 00:32, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

another fate of Medusa's head
In "Heros and Monsters of Greek Myth" by Evslin and Hoopes, there is a condensed story of Perseus. It said that the ultimate fate of Medusa's head was that Perseus threw it into the sea. As the head rolled around the bottom of the sea, it created coral. My copy of this book is packed away somewhere, so I can't use it to figure out where that account came from. Does anyone know a better source for this? Frotz (talk) 08:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Bronze Bull
Shouldn't there be some mention that the name Gorgon is also sometimes used to refer to the fire-breathing Brone Bulls... even if only to say that this appelation is missused. And a reference to popular usage of Medusa as a common name for all Gorgons.72.185.169.135 (talk) 22:01, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Article contradicts itself (gorgos: fast/terrible?)
Summary:
 * In Greek mythology, the Gorgon was a terrifying female creature. It derives from the Greek word gorgós, which means "fast".

Origins:
 * The name is Greek, being derived from "gorgos" and translating as terrible.

-- Estragon (talk) 15:30, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

 * On oct 29, 129.12.128.210 changed "dreadful" to "fast". I've revered that unsourced change. We should try to find a source for the meaning. Paul August ☎ 16:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Gorgos is Greek for fast, not terrible. I won't change it on the page, because it will probably be changed back, but it is Greek for fast. (I didn't write it on the page the first time, just saying). -Lordloss210 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.101.247.84 (talk) 14:21, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

About origens
I recall a tv special(might have been history channels gods series featuring a profile on medusa, i can't recall), about gorgons and they claimed the origen of the iconography of bugged out eyes,tusked teeth,protruding tounge, and serpentine hair is a result of peoples experiences with seeing the face of a bloated corpse and is why the image is multi-cultural. for example the maya have simular images such as in the center of thier calender as well as other artifacts bearing the likeness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.216.6.31 (talk) 21:21, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

- This view came from the book “Medusa: Solving the Mystery of the Gorgon” By Stephen R Wilk, who was involved with the tv show mentioned above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.74.136.102 (talk) 09:30, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Redirect variations of Gorgon stare
Gorgon stare already redirects to Gorgon Stare, which is a military surveillance tool named after the stare of a Gorgon. I created Gorgon's stare and Gorgon's Stare to redirect here, updated Gorgon (disambiguation), and added relevant hatnotes to this article and Gorgon Stare. If there is a consensus to change some of these redirects or hatnotes, that's fine by me.

I found the term "Gorgon stare" and similar variations which referred to the stare of a Gorgon in more than one book in a "Google Book" search. I did not see a need to update this article as it already explains that looking at a Gorgon could turn you into stone, even if it does not use these exact phrases. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  15:39, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Minoan ring picture
The caption in the article for this picture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bague_de_Mochlos.png), and the in-line text says it "depicts a sea-goddess with a monstrous head in a boat." On inspection it does not. I don't have access to the reference, but here is another description: http://www.biroz.net/words/minoan-epiphany/review-part-five.htm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.172.145.175 (talk) 08:14, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

 * This image was recently removed. I have now also removed the attached paragraph:

 * Possibly related, a female figure, probably a sea-goddess is depicted on a Minoan gold ring from the island Mochlos in Crete. The goddess has a monstrous head and she is sitting in a boat. A holy tree is depicted, probably related to the Minoan cult of the tree. [Martin Nilsson (1967), Die Geschichte der Griechischen Religion Vol I. C.F. Beck Verlag, Muenchen p. 246]

 * I don't speak German, but with the help of Google Translate (I know, I know, but it's the best I've got), I've tried to investigate whether the book cited describes the goddess's head as monstrous, and I've come up with this:

 * Der Goldring aus Mochlos (Taf. 12, 6) zeigt neben zwei Heiligtürmern, von denen das eine ein Baumheiligtum ist, eine Frau in einem Boot mit einem Tierkopf, der auch als der eines Meerungeheuers gedeutet wird. ("The gold ring from Mochlos (Plates 12, 6) shows, besides two holy towers, one of which is a tree sanctuary, a woman in a boat with an animal head, which is also interpreted as that of a sea-doe.")

 * An animal head is not a monstrous head, let alone a gorgon. I'm uncertain of the fuller meaning of Meerungeheuers "sea-doe" (Meer + Ungeheuer = sea + monster?), so perhaps that's what the editor who originally placed this citation was relying on. But even so, taking this as citation for the ring depicting a gorgon seems like a step too far into original research.

 * The only other mentions I could find are these:

 * Der Goldring aus Mochlos mit einer Göttin in einem Boot (Taf. 12, 6) zeigt rechts einen Bau, der dem ersten Typus ähnlich ist, aber ohne Baum; über dem Boot erhebt sich eine Konstruktion, die einer Leiter mit zwei Stufen ähnlich sieht, und darüber ein Baum. ("The gold ring from Mochlos with a goddess in a boat (plate 12, 6) shows on the right a building similar to the first type but without a tree; above the boat rises a structure similar to a ladder with two steps, and above it a tree.")

 * Göttin in einem Boot, Goldring, Mochlos. Nach Athen. Mitt. XXXV (1910) S. 343. Zu S. 282, 300 ("Goddess in a boat, gold ring, Mochlos." This is the description of plate 12, image 6, showing the ring. The citation is to Communications of the German Archaeological Institute, Athenian Department.)

 * And to cap it off, the citation was wrong; the publisher is C.H.Beck, not C.F.Beck. So it just seems like an overall lack of care in adding this citation. -- Perey (talk) 06:18, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Gorgon
Two times the word 'Sanskrit was written. Please correct it. Wikipedia pages should be error fee. Good Videos (talk) 07:01, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Time Of The Earliest Gorgons
In the section "Depictions" first lane: "Gorgons were a popular image in Greek mythology, appearing in the earliest of written records of Ancient Greek religious beliefs such as those of Homer, which may date to as early as 1194–1184 BC.", but in the article regarding Homer: "It is thought that the poems were composed at some point around the late eighth or early seventh century BC", whereas the latter is correct — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.126.170.118 (talk) 07:54, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: HUM 202 - Introduction to Mythology
— Assignment last updated by 21RowRowRoYourBoat89 (talk) 03:00, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gorgons


text:
La Belle Otero

Agustina del Carmen Otero Iglesias (4 November 1868 – 10 April 1965), better known as Carolina Otero or La Belle Otero, was a Spanish actress, dancer and courtesan. She had a reputation for great beauty and was famous for her numerous lovers.

Early years
Agustina del Carmen Otero Iglesias was born in Valga Galicia, Spain, daughter of a Spanish single mother, Carmen Otero Iglesias (1844–1903), and a Greek army officer named Carasson. Her family was impoverished, and as a child she moved to Santiago de Compostela working as a maid. At age 10, she was raped, and at 14, she left home with her boyfriend and dancing partner Paco and began working as a singer/dancer in Lisbon.

Career as artiste and courtesan
In 1888, Otero found a sponsor named Ernest Jurgens in Barcelona who moved with her to Marseilles to promote her dancing career in France. She soon left him and created the character of La Belle Otero, portraying herself as an Andalusian Romani woman. She was pretty, confident, intelligent, with an attractive figure. It was said that her extraordinarily dark black eyes were so captivating that they were "of such intensity that it was impossible not to be detained before them". She wound up as the star of Folies Bèrgere productions in Paris. In 1892 she along with Prince Albert of Monaco and Nicholas I of Mpntenegro lived in the same apartment together. One of her more famous costumes featured her voluptuous bosom partially covered with glued-on precious gems, and the twin cupolas of the Carlton Hotel built in 1912 in Cannes are popularly said to have been modeled upon her breasts. Within a short number of years, Otero was said to be the most sought-after woman in Europe. She was serving, by this time, as a courtesan to wealthy and powerful men of the day, and she chose her lovers carefully. She associated herself with Kaiser Wilhelm II, Prince Albert I of Monaco, Prince Nicholas I of Montenegro, King Edward VII, Peter I of Serbia, and King Alfonso XIII of Spain, as well as Russian Grand Dukes Peter and Nicholas, the Duke of Westminster and writer Gabriele D'Annunzio. Her love affairs made her notorious, and the envy of many other notable female personalities of the day. Six men reportedly committed suicide after their love affairs with Otero ended, but this has never been substantiated beyond a doubt. It is a fact, however, that two men did fight a duel over her.

Early film
In August 1898, in St-Petersburg, the French film operator Félix Mesguich (an employee of the Lumière company) shot a one-minute reel of Otero performing the famous "Valse Brillante." The screening of the film at the Aquarium music-hall provoked such a scandal (because an officer of the Tsar's army appeared in this frivolous scene) that Mesguich was expelled from Russia.

Later life
Otero retired after World War I, purchasing a mansion and property at a cost of the equivalent of US$15 million. She had accumulated a massive fortune over the years, about US$25 million, but she gambled much of it away over the remainder of her lifetime, enjoying a lavish lifestyle, and visiting the casinos of Monte Carlo often. She lived out her life in a pronounced state of poverty until she died of a heart attack in 1965 in her one-room apartment at the Hotel Novelty in Nice, France.

Of her heyday and career, Otero once said "Women have one mission in life: to be beautiful. When one gets old, one must learn how to break mirrors. I am very gently expecting to die."

Notable published works

 * Les Souvenirs et la Vie Intime de la Belle Otero (1926). ISBN 9782402042819

A Jose Martí poem "El alma trémula y sola" was inspired and dedicated to Carolina Otero

In film and literature

 * A 1954 film La Belle Otero starring Mexican actress María Félix.
 * A portrait of "Madame Otero" in Colette's My Apprenticeships.

title: La Belle Otero


text:
Talk:History of measurement/Archive 7

Disputed
See User:Egil/Sandbox/rktect -- Egil 15:31, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Egil has made a list of articles which have anything to do with measurement and gone around and put a disputed tag on each. If you go to his sandbox and look there is nothing there but kitty litter. If Egil had a point to make it could be argued or debated but he doesn't. For those reasons the tag should be removed. Anyone who has further questions can check his list of user contributions. There are tags on dozens of articles and none of them have any substance.

69.164.70.243 12:24, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't believe that it's fair to say Egil does not argue or debate his point. He does: look at these talk pages.  Nor does it further you case, Rktect, to get about slinging childish dirty language like kitty litter.  Jimp 31Aug05

 * I was trying to be polite but suspect my true opinion is not well hidden from you. Also though I know that you claim Egil has had no contact with you but for what its worth I think he has, so I take your response to him into account in evaluating your POV.

 * Pseudoscientific metrology Inspired by some of the last few weeks incidents, I've collected various material on Pseudoscientific metrology. I'd appreciate it if you would review it. -- Egil 12:17, 7 August 2005 (UTC)I've also posted this request Wikipedia :AMA_Requests_for_Assistance #Pseudoscientific_attack. -- Egil 14:43, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * A pseudoscientific attack: that's exactly what seems to be happening here. I'll have a look at your page. Splitting Ancient weights and measures article was a good idea. I'd been thinking of doing that myself. Jimp 8Aug05 Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimp"

 * No, I think your true opinion, Rktect, is none too well hidden from me.

 * I don't recall ever making the claim that Egil has had no contact with me. You can see for yourself the contact he's had on my talk page.  I know you've been there for you're taking such delight in copying and pasting all about as if it proves some point or other.

 * I'm at a loss though as to what point it proves. Inspite of the fact that Egil has written me a little note, I am still able to think for myself.  What I deny is that there is this conspiracy against you.  Contact is not conspiracy.

 * No, of course, "Standards of measure are not pseudoscience, nor are they original research." However, this is not the point.  The question is whether certain contributions are pseudoscientific or are original research.

 * I think Egil has put his point across in an adequately substantive way. Don't restrict your view only to his pages but look at this talk page and its archives.  There is a dispute.

 * You say Egil is "false claims about what my articles are saying characterising them improperly." Then my question is "What lead him to these 'false  claims'?"  Might it not be your contributions?

 * Let me tell you what you actually say. You claim that "The same system of measures has been used throughout History."  Do you stick by this thesis?  Isn't this the theme of your edits?

 * You write "I say the measures of the Mesopotamians, Egyptians, Greeks Persians and Romans were related having not said that about India, China, Oceanasia, Africa and the Americas". Then what was your point when you posted this table?

 * Region ||Foot Name|| Foot Measure
 * China || che|| 333.45 mm
 * Japan || shaku || 303.02 mm
 * Korea || chok || 303.02 mm
 * Costa Rica ||tercia ||278.64 mm
 * Aztex Mexico || pie ||278.89 mm
 * Ecuador -El Salvador ||tercia || 304.8 mm
 * Paraguay ||pie || 288.8 mm
 * Tasmania||foot || 304.8 mm
 * }
 * Aztex Mexico || pie ||278.89 mm
 * Ecuador -El Salvador ||tercia || 304.8 mm
 * Paraguay ||pie || 288.8 mm
 * Tasmania||foot || 304.8 mm
 * }
 * Paraguay ||pie || 288.8 mm
 * Tasmania||foot || 304.8 mm
 * }
 * }

 * What has resistance towards metrication got to do with the price of cheese? A lot actually. That's a point of view.

 * I don't agree that Egil is attacking the articles. It seems to me that all his is doing is trying to keep them factual.  Jimp 6sep05

Metrification

 * Some people don't happen to believe metrification is our manifest destiny or that resistence is futile. That could be considered healthy skepticism rather than a POV unless you hold an opposing POV.. but there is also the fact that in many ways metrification is like the urban renewal of the sixties, tearing down neighborhoods full of beautiful old landmarks in the name of progress so there is also the historic preservation aspect to consider.

 * The way to keep them factual is to go look up the references. Many people have difficulty with that because if you don't happen to have all the relevant source material sitting on a shelf in front of you or piled up on your desk it often involves a trip to the library. If you don't happen to be near a university you may have to request sources from an inter-library loan program or go on ebay to try and buy the book just to settle a point which will be mute by the time you get what you need to make your case. I sympathise with that but perhaps a better way to handle it than to make charges of original research and cite whatever you find on the internet, whether you understand it fully or not, would  be to acknowledge that the guy that has spent 30 years accumulating the desk full of references evidences a substantive interest and might be a good person to ask. Rktect 10:38, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

 * Look, Rktect, I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone. It's just that when claims like "One and the very same system of measurement and only this system has been used by each and every civilisation since the dawn of history." alarm bells start to ring in my head.  This is simply not true.  Is this not what you're saying?  Isn't that what you set out to prove some time back?

 * I can sympathise with the "historic preservation" argument against the metric system. There are other good arguments besides this that strike a chord with me.  However, for me, none of these arguments are enough to turn me anti-metric.  No, I'm still very much for the metric system and very much for full World-wide metrification.

 * This is not to say that "metrification is our manifest destiny or that resistence is futile" nor do I think this. No, full global metrification may never be achived.  Those opposing it may indeed have some success.  Not that I wish them any luck.

 * Actually what I'd consider the best compromise would be some system of metrified traditional units. Of course, this is my POV.  I'm making not attempt to push it in the articles of this encyclopædia.

 * Resistance may not be futile but the articles are not the place for it. Note: I'm not accusing you of to fight metrification in the articles.  I'm just trying to explain what it's all got to with how much cheese costs. Jimp 8Sep05

Discussing not fighting

 * We are discussing, not fighting. I'm hearing what you are saying as an expression of cognative dissonance. "The alarm bells go off in your head because what you think you know is being challenged.
 * Lets break down your statement
 * "One - Yes
 * and the very same - No there are variations
 * system of measurement - Yes
 * and only this system - No there are variations
 * has been used - Yes
 * by each and every civilisation - No (Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, Persia, Rome, Europe)
 * mayby the Punics and India, depends on when you are talking).
 * since the dawn of history." - (written history anyway)

 * The system combines two earlier systems, body measures of length and agricultural measures of distance in a system of lengths related to areas related to volumes in integral unit fractions designed to facilitate commercial calculations that begin as sexigesimal factors in Mesopotamia and become septenary unit fractions in Egypt.

 * Its used architecturally in the Greek orders of architecture of which the first proto-doric example would be the columns of the arcade of Hatsehpsets second mortuary chaple. The same system is present in Egyptian inscription grids and the canon of ptoportions for drawing the human form. its discussed by Vitruvious, Andreas, Palladio, Rembrandt, Leonardo and many many others. Its used in terms of the sort of practical solutions to the classical problems of Greek antiquity that can be achieved if a ruler is substituted for a straightedge. Its used by Marinus and Ptolomey in a very similar manner to the way its used in the Rhind papyrus.

 * Its ok for you to have that POV, but please don't try to force it on me.

 * The reason the metric system fails is that it isn't part of the system. It doesn't have the right modules of multiplication and division (proportions) to relate to human beings needs. People relate better to fingers, thumbs, palms, hands, spans, quarters, feet, remen, cubits, long cubits nibw, yards, paces, fathoms than they do meters and mm because there are more unity fraction factors, or more ways you can relate something to the scale you actually need to work with, particularly when it comes to making an area or volume have a unit of length side such that they aproximately double the cube, square the circle or trisect the angle.

 * If you go into a bar and get a shot of scotch, if its cheap scotch it comes in a doubler and if its a malt it comes in a snifter. The doubler measures oz by fingers. (1/6 gill) Three fingers is an oz, four fingers is a double. (1.8 oz = 1 cu in, 1 shot = 1.25 oz, = 3 fingers 2 shots = 2.5 oz = 4 fingers. The snifter is designed so that if you hold it horizontal an oz won't quite splash over the rim. That's the way people like their measures.

 * That actually was the system in Mesopotamia and Egypt. 100 mm = 1 hand, 300 mm = 1 foot, 500 mm = 1 ordinary cubit, 600 mm = 1 great cubit. In Egypt where measures were septenary rather than sexigesimal they substituted palms for hands so 4 palms = 3 hands = 1 foot = 300 mm. 8 palms = 1 nibw (double foot or elle) = 600 mm.

 * Forget about metrification, its a fad, about as historically significant as the length you wore your hair in the sixties.

 * The historical preservation is the real issue. Wikipedia is a good place for people who have an interest in the historic preservation of standards of measure to do so. Probably the best way is to use the old names like fote and Myle so people looking for an article on the foot or the mile don't have to wade through a bunch of history they don't care about, and people who really want to know how the length of a perche in 1581 compared to the length of a rode in 1500 and a pole in 1593 can find out. Rktect 04:53, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

Establishing the dialectic

 * Yes, discussing not fighting, good to hear it. I'm not trying to force my POV on you.  What would the point of that be?  All I say is "Let's keep both of our points of view out of the articles."  Whether our POV is pro-metrification or pro-historic-preservation let's keep it in the Talk pages where it belongs.  I'm sure you can cop that.

 * I think my alarm bells ring because of the language you've used. In any encyclopædia wouldn't it be preferable to use clear language?  Thus refrain from calling things "the same" when there are these variations.  Refrain also from vague terms like "theme".  Put the facts in straight-forward language.

 * Go to a bar in Australia and order a scotch and you'll get 30 ml (one nip). Order a double and you'll get 60 ml.  Also the bottles are usually 750 ml so you've got 25 nips to the bottle.  All very clear and easy.  That's the way Aussies like their measures.

 * Metrification is a fad, ay? Well time will tell but I get the feeling that it'll prove you wrong.  The World has gone metric with the exception of the US.  I'd hardly call that a failure.  That the metric system isn't part of what you call "the system" isn't enough to make it fail.  It needn't be part of the system: it's its own system.

 * The odd thing is that you say it's not part of the system then go on to say that it is. You can't have it both ways.  If it's not part of the system then there is a system of units that has been used which is not that one system.

 * People relate best to whatever they're used to. I'm used to the metric system.  It serves my needs perfectly.  It's easy to use with all mutiples being powers of ten fitting in with the base ten system we use for counting (in all modern languages that I know of).  Units fit together: one mililitre equals one cubic centimetre, a litre of water has a mass of one kilogram.

 * How many cubic inches in a gallon? Easy: 231 ... if it's a wet US gallon; not so simple otherwise.  And 231 what kind of a number is that? Isn't 10x10x10 more useful than 11x7x3?  Did the ancients choose 11x3x7?  How many pounds does a gallon of water weigh?  Easy: 10 ... if it's an Imperial gallon.

 * Can you give me some examples of how to make "an area or volume have a unit of length side such that they aproximately double the cube, square the circle or trisect the angle." in the Imperial or US customary system? I'm curious.  Can America boast as useful a system of paper sizes as the one used by the rest of the World (except Canada)? Jimp 9Sep05

Classical problems

 * What makes the problems irrational is the requirement to use an unmarked straightedge, using a marked straightedge such as a ruler they are trivial. You can google some of the online java that shows mechanical constructions such as those used by Pythagoras, Plato and Eratosthenes.

 * [odometer solution]
 * [pytqagoras]
 * [rhind papyrus]
 * [circle squaring]
 * [trisecting]
 * "In the Rhind papyrus Ahmes gives a rule to construct a square of area nearly equal to that of a circle. The rule is to cut 1/9 off the circle's diameter and to construct a square on the remainder. Although this is not really a geometrical construction as such it does show that the problem of constructing a square of area equal to that of a circle goes back to the beginnings of mathematics. This is quite a good approximation, corresponding to a value of 3.1605, (256/81 expressed as unit fractions) rather than 3.14159, for pi."

 * For the doubling the cube problems try setting the sides or cubes at the standard unit measures of the various participants in the system. its not "exact" but its close enough as a "rule of thumb" to be of substantive assistance to anyone working with commercial calculations. The division of cubic feet into cubic fingers, palms, hands, spans etc; relates to board measure.

 * 1 cu ft = 1728 cu in = side 12" = 64 cubic palms of 3"
 * 1 cu remen = 3375 cu in = side 15" = 2 cu ft = 125 cubic palms of 3"
 * 1 cu Roman cubit = 5184 cu in = side 17.3" = 3 cu ft = 125 cubic hands of 3.46"
 * 1 cu Egyptian cubit = 5428.68 cu in = side 17.58 = pi cu ft
 * (nice for circular graineries, baskets, barrels,and amphorae.
 * 1 English cubit "(the diamond on the Stanley tape measure = 6912 cu in
 * 1 Biblical cubit = 5832 cu in = side 18" = 3.375 cu ft = 216 cubic palms of 3"
 * 1 English cubit = side 19.05" = 4 cu ft = 8 cubic spans of 9.52" (now 9.25")
 * 1 cu royal cubit = 8640 cu in = side 20.5" = 5 cu ft = 512 cubic palms of 2.57"
 * 1 Mesopotamian barley kus (30 Roman digits) = 10368 cu in = side 21.8" = 6 cu ft
 * 1 Mesopotamian wheat kus = 10852.6 cu in = side 22.14" = 2 pi cu ft.
 * 1 = 12096 cu in = side 23" = 7 cu ft
 * 1 nibw or elle = 13824 cu in = side 24" = 8 cu ft
 * These are still used in board measure and computing the number of cords of wood in a tree
 * [forestry]
 * The Greeks copied the problems from the Egyptians everyday math, but made them more rigorous and general (and irrational) by requiring the use of the straightegdge.Rktect 10:31, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

 * The doubling system of the British Imperial System begins with the Horus eye fractions such as the divisions of the Hekat into unit fractions ro '2,'4,'8,'16,'32,'64,'128,'256 etc; then continues with the Biblical Bath and Metrets systems, barrel measure, cloth yards, Stecchini is actually quite good at explaining this and adds in units brutto and netto, trimmed units, the artaba and quedet, profane and sacred Mina and shekle with the built in tithing, variations on the British and American System after 1816, and then there is
 * Does rktect really believe that repeated binary division is so hard that it was only invented once?!? Septentrionalis 19:27, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I doubt that a doubling system that was even integral multiples of an Egyptian system was independently invented. If you think differently see if you can explain the coincidence. Rktect 01:29, September 10, 2005 (UTC)
 * [barley mow song] (alternate words for the gill divisions include nip, niperkin, quite a few more listed in Klein)Rktect 14:07, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

 * How many cubic inches in any Imperial unit is just a matter of doubling the last cube
 * drachm fluid British .023281 cu in (24/2024 cu in)unit netto
 * drachm fluid US .024233 cu in (25/2024 cu in)unit brutto
 * noggin British 8.669 cu in
 * quartern = 1/2 Imperial gallon = 138.71 cu in cube with side 5.18"
 * bucket = 4 Imperial gallons = 1,109.7 cu in cube with side 10.35" 1/8 crc (Old English fote)
 * bushel (dry)= 2219.3 cu in = 1/4 cubic royal cubit, cube with side of 13"
 * strike 2 bushels (dry)= 4438.6 cu in = 1/2 crc cube with side of 16.43"
 * bag or sock = 3 bushels (dry)= 6657.9 cu in = 3/4 crc cube with side of 18.81"
 * coomb (cubit) = 4 bushels (dry) = 8877.2 = crc with side 20.7" = 32 Imperial gallons
 * barrel (dry = 36 Imperial gallons =9987.01704 cu in with side 21.53"
 * seam or quarter = 8 bushels (dry)=17,754.4 cu in with side 26"
 * butt = 126 Imperial gallons = 34,954.9 cu in with side 32.7"
 * chaldron = 32 bushels (dry)= 71,017.6 cu in with side 41.4"
 * wey = 40 bushels = 88,772 cu in with side 44.6"
 * puncheon = 70 imperial gallons = 155,351 cu in with side 53.76"
 * register ton = 100 cubic feet = 172,800 cu in with side 55.7"
 * last British = 80 bushels (dry) = 177,544 cubic in with side 56.2"
 * rod British = 1000 cubic feet = 1,728,000 cu in with side 120"

Interesting but ...
Rktect,

So you've shown that five cubed is approximately equal to twice four cubed. Hence if only we could find units of length in the ratio of 4:5. And so we have them. Four remen equals five feet. The problem, though, is, of course, that nobody uses remen these days.

"Can you give me some examples of how to make 'an area or volume have a unit of length side such that they aproximately double the cube ...' in the Imperial or US customary system?' I asked (emphasis added). There are no remen in either of these systems.  You mustn't over look the importance of this with respect to the issue of metrification.  It's SI verses Imperial/US customary not SI verses the Ancient Greek system.

Still, 4:5, is interesting but since remen are all but forgotten you might as well go for 4 to 5 inches, feet ... or even metres. Now they may use something of these in the US deforestation industry but these are not mainstream units. I'm sure they've got similar solutions to the same problems in the deforestation industries of metric countries.

As to doubling in of volumes well two is a factor of ten so you can halve a whole number of kilolitres, litres, millilitres, etc. and end up with a whole number of kilolitres, litres, millilitres, etc. it might not be quite as nice a number but divide pint by 25.

"How many cubic inches in any Imperial unit is just a matter of doubling the last cube ..." yeah, only problem is that there is no simple ratio between cubic inches and the volume of this "last cube" either. Whereas in the metric system cube and length unit and you get a unit of volume.

Also, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that binary division/multiplication was independently discovered. By the way, do you know what "irrational" means in mathematics? Jimp 20Sep05

Do we really require the disputed tag?
Does anyone object to removing the disputed tag from this article? So far I have seen no demonstration that there is a fact in the article which isn't demonstrably true. If there is a specific statement which needs more clarification or references lets provide them and move on. Rktect 18:12, September 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * We need to remove the unsourced conjecture that constitutes the prose of the article. We also need to have a (separate) section on Gilling's system, which explains it without advocacy. I should be able to do that by the end of the week. Septentrionalis 01:48, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe the present text leaves no room for dispute; and I would join a consensus removing the disputed tag. Septentrionalis 01:52, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Septentrionalis Pmanderson, the present text does leave no room for dispute; seeing as you've removed all text. Perhap, though, it's best this way ... maybe. Jimp 14Sep05
 * If we can keep it as it is now, there is no reason to keep the 'dispute' tag. A small introductory text would have been nice, but that may wait untill the outcome of the arbitration is clear. -- Egil 08:24, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I said If we can keep it as it is now. That didn't happen, so I am adding the tag. The unsourced claims and statements now seem to be back. -- Egil 11:17, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * What unsourced statement do you refer to? Read the discussion first, then try and be specific. Rktect 23:26, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

historic weights and measures
Historical weights and measures need at a minimum to be organized according to their historic developments. Any history book would look at any subject as having ancient, classical, medeival and modern forms, thats what having a history means, that you can track how things evolved. There is no unsourced conjecture in the article, all of it is pretty mainstream history, but if there is a fact you dispute why not mention it on the discussion page and find out more about it before reducing the whole article to nonsense. As to Gilling's, who is the author of "Mathematics in the time of the Pharoah's" and probably pretty academic and dry for most tastes, you can buy his book in paperback for $9.50 from ABE books.Rktect 19:21, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

how many?
how many furlongs are in a league? Ana

8 furlongs to a mile & 3 miles to a league makes 24. Jimp 20Sep05

title: Talk:History of measurement/Archive 7


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//This code will change ISBN links to point to the url of your choice, //instead of Special:Book_sources. // //How to use it: // //First, you must copy this code to your user javascript page. This is //at User: /monobook.js. My username is Lunchboxhero so //my javascript page is User:Lunchboxhero/monobook.js. You must be logged //in to edit your javascript page. // //Once you have copied the code and saved the page, you need to refresh your //browser's cache. For Mozilla/Safari/Konqueror: hold down Shift while clicking //Reload (or press Ctrl-Shift-R), IE: press Ctrl-F5, Opera: press F5. // //The code should now work, as long as you are logged in. // //You can change the destination URL. Go to Book sources and copy //the URL of the site you want to use (right-click the link, then click "Copy Link //Location", "Copy Target", or similar). Put the new URL between the quotes next //to magicURL, in place of the URL now there. // //The current magicURL includes Wikipedia's Amazon Referral reference. That means if you click on //the ISBN link, go to Amazon and end up buying the book, Wikipedia will earn some small amount //of money from that sale. If you don't want to support Wikipedia in this way, but do want ISBNs //to link to Amazon, replace the current magicURL with "http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/MAGICNUMBER" // //Good luck, and if you have any questions, leave a comment on the discussion //page of User:Lunchboxhero/monobook.js. Thanks to Superm401 and drrngravy for their //improvements. // //(Every line that starts with "//" is a comment and can be discarded.) function externISBN { var magicURL = "http://library.lib.asu.edu/search/i?SEARCH=MAGICNUMBER"; var magicRegex = /MAGICNUMBER/ig; if(mw.config.get('wgPageName') != "Special:Booksources" && mw.config.get('wgPageName') != "Wikipedia:Book_sources"){ for (var i = 0; i < document.links.length; i++) { if( document.links[i].href.match(/isbn=(.*)/) ) { document.links[i].href=magicURL.replace(magicRegex, RegExp.$1); }   }  } } $(externISBN);

document.write('<\/script>'); document.write('<\/link>');

title: User:Mcmillin24/monobook.js