text:
User talk:Jobe6/Archive 2

WB's RfA
I said Who Are You?? about him as I don't know who he is and I don't vote for people I don't know. I know who you are though, you left me suggestions at my bands page! R e  dwolf24  (talk) 01:22, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

RE:Virginia related articles
the Virginia Historical society link has a bunch of links/resources. Mostly, I just google subjects that I am researching and find free resources that way. MPS 15:52, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Requesting comments on template alteration
Hello. I see you are using one or more of the User instruments templates in your Babel box. Inspired by some recent developments, I want to rework all the templates in there (including ones used on user pages), to make them more like the regular Babel templates. However, I thought I should hear from the people this would affect before actually doing it. Please weigh in at User:Ddawson/User instruments. Ddawson 10:03, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Admin graph
I'd be happy to add such a chart to your RfA. It'll have to wait until Thursday though. I'll have it up less than 12 hours from now. --Durin 04:14, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I've added the chart now, and it is linked from Requests_for_adminship/Jobe6. Enjoy! --Durin 15:32, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Reichstag flag photo
I think this is the original: http://www.artnet.com/artwork_images/113499/90144.jpg. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 05:26, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Sup jon. Rory Gould 05:07, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations. Raven4x4x 12:20, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Android79's RfA
Thank you for your support on my RfA and for your kind comments. android 79  22:17, September 12, 2005 (UTC)

Taunting User:24.6.59.24
I don't regret blocking User:24.6.59.24, but I would prefer if you'd refrain from taunting him. He is obviously a music enthusiast and if we can convince him to make valid contributions, I'm sure he'd be a valuable Wikipedia user. Taunting him will not help achieve this goal; please stop. Rhobite 20:15, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

The charter is here. (Relating to Esperanza)
Hello Jobe6, the Charter for Esperanza is up. Take a looksie :) R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 02:50, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Esperanza made less bureaucratic
Hello again, I have (unilatterly) taken away the 'assembly' idea, as per my reasons at that edit summary and per Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Charter. I have left the admin general, as some leadership is good. Now, all you have to do is be a member to establish consensus, the whole assembly idea is gone. Also, I have added an advisory committee, of four members, with limited power besides watching over the admin general and making sure he doesn't do anything stupid. Please look at the ammended charter, and I would love a comment. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 00:16, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

The last time I'm spamming you all with Esperanza stuff
Hello Jobe6. As you may or may not know, there have been some troubles with Esperanza. So now, as a last ditch to save the community, please vote at Esperanza/Reform on all neccisary polls. P.S. I'm very sorry for spamming you all with these messages, and this will be the last time. I recommend putting ESP on your watchlist. Cheers and please look at that, let's stop the civil war then. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 02:46, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

(Kyla 21:31, 22 September 2005 (UTC))
So other articles show stereotypes...so why not stereotypes of eurasian people. like the article Asian fetish

Now I have no page at all! You deleted it! thanks...i can't even write it anymore! Cause everytime I write it...it says it's deleted! (Kyla 01:14, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

okay thanks...(Kyla 01:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

thanks for cleaning up my history! I needed it. Now it's empty. Thank you so much! (Kyla 01:17, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

well thank you anyway! (Kyla 01:19, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

that's okay...i needed a clean. it looks so much better now! (Kyla 01:20, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

It's my fault. I didn't know I was supposed to not move my page. Sorry about the confusion. (Kyla 01:24, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

Thank you so much! (Kyla 01:25, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

I was actually going to delete the page anyway. So I'll just start a new one. (Kyla 01:27, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

So I can't move my page to Jessica Liao? (Kyla 01:29, 24 September 2005 (UTC))
 * test

Hi sorry for bothering you again..can I delete my account for wikipedia and create another one? (Kyla 01:49, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

Restoring history
Sure, no problem, glad to help. Although now I wonder if she really wanted them... I'll leave her another note. Noel (talk) 03:35, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!
You are my hero! Thank you! (Jessica Liao 03:36, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

I learned my lesson. Never move a userpage to another name or else things get complicated. I promise I won't do this again. I'm really sorry! I feel so guilty. I cause so much problems for you. But thank you again for teaching me. It was helpful. (Jessica Liao 03:47, 24 September 2005 (UTC))

Nomination
I have nominated you for Adminship here. I hope you accept because you are a great editor at this site. Type O Spud 01:59, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

User:209.178.175.191
D'oh! of course you already thanked them on their talk page. I wasn't sure what to think of the edit, they did the same thing to Jimbo's page. I appologize if you disagree with the rv. ∞ Who ? ¿ ? 05:15, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Thank you!!!! User:209.178.175.191

DreamFiend's recent additions...
I know this is hard to believe, but I think his pages aren't vandalism. Looked at his contributions and it looks like he's making articles about Thomas The Tank Engine characters. Not sure if the articles still qualify for inclusion in Wikipedia, but at the least they aren't vandalism. Cheers. --Syrthiss 14:17, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Ah, sorry. I didn't pay attention to what the edit remarks were in relation to what was being reverted. --Syrthiss 14:51, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your welcome. I'm "very new" in the english language :S but, I hope to I be useful to the wikipedia. JanusDC 00:23, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I am in the Spanish Wikipedia too. I am here because I edited some english pages, and I think that my IP is horrible (I prefer my beautiful nick) ;) JanusDC 03:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Re: C2 aaron
You and me both, man. You and me both. User:Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 00:49, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Nice Catch...
...on the Cameron/MalFunkShun thing. Cameron was in Skin Yard. That's what I get for doing my first edit while half-asleep. John Henry My Talk Page 09:27, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Sorry

 * Sorry about the all caps and the cybering.

I'm looking for an article on a subject I like. And, I'd appreciate it, if you'd wait for a response from me, about your complaint, instead of talking to everyone else about it. You didn't even know, if I would listen, and correct my mistakes. I'm still a new user.
 * Am I, allowed to make mistakes?

C2 aaron

User:Comradebrightsmile
Jobe6, when you welcomed User:Comradebrightsmile, did you happen to look at his contribution? I'm not sure that's the kind of editor we really want to welcome to Wikipedia. Jayjg (talk) 16:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you had welcomed him before he posted that. How did you know he had joined Wikipedia? Jayjg (talk) 19:06, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I hadn't realized that was one of the logs available. Jayjg (talk) 19:23, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Lyric:
It was some 80's Song by The Cardinals, It went:

Love me Love me Say that you'll love me fool me fool me Go on and fool me (Repeat above) I can't care 'bout anything but you.

reasons of blanking pages
It's like email. I delete old ones when they get too big. I need a clean up once in a while. But if I need to look back, I have my history. (Kyla 01:25, 28 September 2005 (UTC))

Type O Negative
Could you wikify the album articles as I see that you are involved in WikiProject Albums. I have to leave for school so i cannot do it right now. Gotta go. Thanks. Type O Spud 01:15, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks I can do the rest. Type O Spud 00:05, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

IRC
Try searching for mIRC, if on Windows, or Xchat, on Linux et al... I hope to see you there! +sj +  03:21, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Who's RfA
Thank you for supporting my masters RfA. He appreciates your support and comments and looks forward to better serving Wikipedia the best he can. Of course I will be doing all of the real work. He would have responded to you directly, but he is currently out of town, and wanted to thank you asap. Thanks again. --Who's mop?¿? 20:50, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Nit Picky Stuff
I was just looking around and I saw that the word barnstar was spelled wrong on your user page, but I figured not to touch it since most users don't want their user page touched at all(i've had a few people deface it in the past few days).

Also, have you gotten any problems due to the different color of your signature? Denelson83had some issues with that. Karmafist 21:56, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Figured as much, but you never know with some of the people on here, Mr. Xena ;-) BTW, I agree. Coulter is fucking nuts. Karmafist 22:00, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

RfA, arbitration
Hi, just a note regarding your vote on my RfA - I do understand how arbitration works, I only meant that I haven't been involved in arbitration on the other end. Of course, arguably this is merely because I haven't gotten in any long protracted fights with anyone, but I tend to think that people only really end up deeply involved in fights they deliberately pick. Anywho... My point was that, more generally, I've avoided doing anything other than simply editing pages. Lately I've been thinking this is a sort of abdication of responsibility, and I could do much more for Wikipedia. Graft 23:31, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Hello Spamlist!
Ah, my first ever spam mass produced and mailed to the spamlist. Well first of all let me re-state that we have an irc channel, #wp-esperanza, and its been rather empty, so I'd appreciate it if you come, even if you just idle about. Now, the evil polls have closed, and I left a justification note for running the evil polls. Nothing has really changed, but at least I have somewhat of a consensus. I hope to figure out a way to overturn my power to JCarriker somehow, I'll figure out a way :-) Meanwhile, I've been busy reforming the mediation system where I am the chairman now, er, acting chairman. Enjoy your spam, with extra vikings. R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 00:37, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

RfA
I've had several offers, and hae had 3 previous RfA's. I would accept no sooner than November 1. Thanks, though. Howabout1 Talk to me!

My RFA
Thank you very much for your vote on my RFA, it is now one of the most supported RFA ever, and it couldnt have happened without your vote. I look forward to serving wikipedia. Again, thanks. →Jo urna list  >>talk<<  16:34, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Vandalsim
Hi. I dont know, I hope I havnt made a gross mistake and hacked a user off. But, there was a rant in there about being a "wildly bisexual", among others, so, it looked like vandalism. Anyway, check it out and revert me if you think you ought to. BTW, I edit conflicted you editing an anon talk page. If someone blanks a page, do you normally assume good-faith. (I know we are supposed to.) Cheers Ban  e  s  17:13, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Oops, it looks like it was the real user. I had better apologize. Thanks for that info. Ban e  s  17:19, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Jonathan Ian Mathers
I noticed you had removed a bit about him dying as there was no source. Indeed, an official source is difficult to find, but the recent tributes on Newgrounds seem to support the theory.

This Newgrounds BBS thread may be worth checking out. I myself am not sure what to believe yet. It could be true or a horrible joke.

User:Hinklethedink
please explain Ok, thanks for the heads up on the tildes. Not sure I agree with the discussion though. I'd say there is a deliniation between discussion, vandalism and posting nonsense that should be cleared away. Particularly if its the same nonsense that constantly pops up in the wiki entry and has to be removed.

My RfA!
My dear Jobe, I simply wanted to drop by now that my RfA is closed to give you a big THANK YOU! for your kind support. It came at a very important time to me, when I felt I was being somewhat distrusted, and your confidence gave me strength. I hope that we continue to be in contact in the future, and you have in me a new friend. Hugs! Shauri Yes babe?  19:26, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Resignation
Hello spam list, look at this. Essjay is the new leader of Esperanza, and I'm interested in seeing how he runs it. I'm busy doing other work... Please comment at that talk page there. I will still probably run the spamlist though. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 22:58, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

?

 * How do I know if a page is populated or not?

I figured if I could search and find it, it's populated. C2 aaron 16:25, 3 October 2005 (UTC) P.S.- Do you know why I was blocked?

Images
Well according to 66 dot 201 dot 174 dot 92, Wikipedia's style convention is to display such images on the right-hand side of the page. It's on Mackenzie Rosman's history page. (Kyla 00:19, 4 October 2005 (UTC))

But since you said I can change the images format, I guess I'll do it. Thanks for telling me about it! (Kyla 00:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC))

User pages
Do you want to trade user pages? Howabout1 Talk to me! 02:41, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Re:NFL Wikiproject

 * When are things going to be set up?

Chien 12:57, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Block

 * I think I was temporarily blocked. Because, at

one point yeserday (Oct. 3), I tried to leave you a message, and a page came up that said, I was blocked. Later on, I left you that message. C2 aaron

Advisory Committee election deadline set
Our new admin general, Essjay, has set the date for the advisory committee elections, that date being October 7th. By UTC it is October 5th right now. So see WP:ESP/E for voting in two days, and add yourself to the list if you're interested in running. On a personal note, I'm considering running, as I only resigned as admin general because of time. I'm sure I could help out on the advisory committee... Anywho, watchlist that page, and be sure to read the voting method too. Regards, R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 01:09, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jobe6/Archive 2


text:
Category talk:Jedi

Moving around
I'm going to be moving some stuff around. Any Jedi who was actually in the Jedi order, but fell to the Dark side (but not Sith) goes both in :Jedi and :Dark Jedi. Selftaught go solely into the :Dark Jedi. And all the places, events, objects and such go into :Jedi Religion. Sound good? --Maru (talk) 01:21, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category talk:Jedi


text:
Signal velocity

The signal velocity is the speed at which a wave carries information. It describes how quickly a message can be communicated (using any particular method) between two separated parties. No signal velocity can exceed the speed of a light pulse in a vacuum (by special relativity).

Signal velocity is usually equal to group velocity (the speed of a short "pulse" or of a wave-packet's middle or "envelope"). However, in a few special cases (e.g., media designed to amplify the front-most parts of a pulse and then attenuate the back section of the pulse), group velocity can exceed the speed of light in vacuum, while the signal velocity will still be less than or equal to the speed of light in vacuum.

In electronic circuits, signal velocity is one member of a group of five closely related parameters. In these circuits, signals are usually treated as operating in TEM (Transverse ElectroMagnetic) mode. That is, the fields are perpendicular to the direction of transmission and perpendicular to each other. Given this presumption, the quantities: signal velocity, the product of dielectric constant and magnetic permeability, characteristic impedance, inductance of a structure, and capacitance of that structure, are all related such that if you know any two, you can calculate the rest. In a uniform medium if the permeability is constant, then variation of the signal velocity will be dependent only on variation of the dielectric constant.

In a transmission line, signal velocity is the reciprocal of the square root of the capacitance-inductance product, where inductance and capacitance are typically expressed as per-unit length. In circuit boards made of FR-4 material, the signal velocity is typically about six inches (15 cm) per nanosecond, or 6.562 ps/mm. In circuit boards made of Polyimide material, the signal velocity is typically about 16.3 cm per nanosecond or 6.146 ps/mm. In these boards, permeability is usually constant and dielectric constant often varies from location to location, causing variations in signal velocity. As data rates increase, these variations become a major concern for computer manufacturers.

 * $$\mathrm{v_s} = { \frac{c}{\sqrt{\varepsilon_{r} \mu_{r}}} } \approx { \frac{c}{\sqrt{\varepsilon_{r}}} } \ $$

where $$\varepsilon_{r}$$ is the relative permittivity of the medium, $$\mu_{r}$$ is the relative permeability of the medium, and $$c$$ is the speed of light in vacuum. The approximation shown is used in many practical context because for most common materials $$\mu_{r} \approx 1$$.

title: Signal velocity


text:
File:30YearsBBCover.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000002UR4/

title: File:30YearsBBCover.jpg


text:
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Miami, Florida/archive1

Miami, Florida
This page I been protecting from vandals for a while now and its mostly written by others but this is also well-written, informative, and very intresting as well. Its Intro is Very Good as well. --JAranda | yeah 01:23, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Object, see Ann Arbor, Michigan for a good article of this type, history is long and there are too many lists.--nixie 02:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Object. No references, which is a requirement for articles to be featured. Also, Image:Miami sunset.jpg has no copyright tags (which can be an issue with others) and Image:Metro cc.jpg is marked as copyrighted without fair use (articles must have GFDL-licensed images unless there is no choice. I believe someone can take a picture of the Miami Metro instead). Pentawing 03:35, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Pentawing, the article must have GFDL-compatible licences, not necessarily GFDL-licensed ones. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  05:40, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Point taken. Thanks for the clarification. Pentawing 07:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Object:
 * The images Image:Miamiflag.jpg and Image:Miamiseal.JPG are tagged as public domain, but there's no evidence that this is the case.
 * The image Image:Miami sunset.jpg has no source or copyright information. In case you missed the announcement, that's grounds for speedy deletion these days.
 * The image Image:Metro cc.jpg is tagged as CopyrightedFreeUseProvided, but no conditions are specified in the tag, indicating that the tag is probably incorrect. This needs to be cleared up.
 * --Carnildo 05:13, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Object – as nixie says, model the article as per Ann Arbor which is well written and balanced. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  05:24, 5 October 2005 (UTC)


text:
Dead River

Dead River may refer to:

Florida

 * Dead River (Lake County, Florida)
 * Dead River, tributary of the Choctawhatchee River
 * Dead River, tributary of the Hillsborough River (Florida)
 * Dead River, tributary of the Kissimmee River
 * Dead River, tributary of the Ochlockonee River

Maine

 * Dead River (Androscoggin River)
 * Dead River (Kennebec River)
 * Dead River (Narramissic River)
 * Dead River (Sabattus River)
 * Dead River (Saint George River)

Minnesota

 * Dead River (Burntside River)
 * Dead River (Otter Tail River)

Other states

 * Dead River (Michigan)
 * Dead River (New Hampshire)
 * Dead River (New Jersey)
 * Dead River (Oregon)

England

 * Dead River (River Mole), tributary of the River Mole

title: Dead River


text: Category:Astronomical observatories in Australia


text:
Salamander Dream

Salamander Dream (ISBN 0-9721794-9-6) is an original graphic novel by Hope Larson, her first, released by AdHouse Books in 2005. The story about a young girl and a magical salamander was inspired by Larson's youth playing in nature, and it was originally released as a webcomic.

Synopsis
The book covers the relationship between Hailey, a young girl, and Salamander, a magical forest-dwelling being. The character Hailey lives on the edge of a small city, frequently walking with her magical friend through the forest next to her house, listening to his stories. As Hailey grows older, her interests slowly shifts away and she eventually ceases to visit the woods. Years later, Hailey visits the woods one last time and meets Salamander again. The girl shares a story with him, before bidding farewell and moving away.

Development
Larson spent a lot of time playing around a creek as a child, imagining a "king of the salamanders" living in an underground palace with quartz walls. The original working title of Salamander Dream was "Salamander King", and Larson paid close attention to detail in how she presented nature in the comic, spotlighting specific species of plants, insects, and birds that she had encountered throughout her life.

Larson came into contact with Kean Soo in 2004 after she moved to Toronto. Soo was just planning to create Jellaby, and the two realized that their two story concepts were very similar. Larson and Soo launched the website Secret Friend Society at the start of 2005, with the goal of attracting attention from publishers. Here, Soo began posting Jellaby and Larson began posting Salamander Dream as webcomics, though Larson got contacted by Chris Pitzer of AdHouse Books quickly. Salamander Dream was published in print by AdHouse Books on September 14, 2005, as Larson's first full-length graphic novel.

Reception
Jonathan H. Liu of Wired recommended the book, in particular for children at elementary age up through the American middle grades.

Salamander Dream was named as one of the best webcomics of 2005 by both Publishers Weekly and The Webcomics Examiner. The latter praised Salamander Dream in particular for how it "captures the energy and loneliness of growing up ... while presenting a hopeful picture of a grown-up world as full of magic as any child's imagination," all with minimal usage of dialog.

title: Salamander Dream


text:
KVRX

KVRX (91.7 FM) is the student radio station at the University of Texas in Austin, Texas, with an effective radiated power of 3,000 watts. Licensed to The University of Texas, KVRX shares the 91.7 frequency with KOOP, broadcasting from 7 p.m. to 9 a.m. Monday through Friday and from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. Saturday and Sunday, with KOOP, operated by Austin Co-op Radio, broadcasting during the remaining hours. KVRX's studios are at the Hearst Student Media Building on campus, and its transmitter is located in East Austin.

kvrx.org broadcasts via the internet and through iTunes Radio, TuneIn.com and an iPhone app 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

History
In the Spring of 1986, students at the University of Texas at Austin formed a committee called the Student Radio Task Force with the intention of raising both institutional and student support for a campus radio station. Two years later, SRTF had secured the support of Texas Student Publications (now Texas Student Media, the University organization which houses all student media and publication outlets). Before receiving its broadcasting license, the fledgling station used the call sign KTSB, and began its first narrowcast via cable television in April 1988.

KTSB's call letters were changed to KVRX nearly six years later in January 1994, after the FCC approved a unique time-share agreement between KTSB and KOOP for the 91.7 FM frequency, the last remaining non-commercial frequency in Austin (the call letters "KTSB" were already in use by another station, necessitating the change). KVRX would go on to broadcast on the FM frequency in November 1994.

Programming
KVRX's slogan is "None of the Hits, All of the Time," and more recently, "Your Texas Independent Music Authority." Both refer to the station's alternative programming. KVRX's format includes music, news, sports and community programming, including the popular "Local Live" segment that airs every Sunday 10-11 p.m. CST. "Local Live" features both local and nationally touring musical acts in live, in-studio broadcast performances and interviews. KVRX only plays music that is not featured on commercial media outlets, and the varied community programs cover local, national and worldwide issues that often do not get covered in mainstream print and broadcast outlets. Notable artists that have performed on "Local Live" to later gain greater recognition include The Black Keys, Spoon, ...And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead, Death Cab For Cutie, Ratatat, Shearwater, Kinky Friedman, Acid Mothers Temple, Animal Collective, Explosions in the Sky, Mitski, and Daniel Johnston. Another program nearly as old as the station itself is "Lone Star Lullabies", which features a playlist of all-Texas music.

In addition to its radio programming, KVRX maintains an active presence in the Austin, Texas independent music scene by organizing live concerts and official shows, including during the South by Southwest music festival each Spring. The station's Music Directors produce a weekly "Topless 39" chart that tracks the 39 albums receiving the most plays that week. In 2010, the station launched its own dedicated YouTube channel. In 2019, the station hosted its very first music festival named KVRX Fest, the largest ever student-run music festival. It featured two days of live music split between Austin venues Cheer Up Charlies and Symphony Square. Notable artists include Frankie Cosmos, Fat Tony, Drab Majesty, and Video Age amongst others. KVRX has been described as a "nationally respected station and blueprint for many other college frequencies."

KVRX is part of Texas Student Media (officially Texas Student Publications), an auxiliary establishment of The University of Texas and the largest student media operation in the United States. KVRX is funded by underwriting, fundraising events, an annual pledge drive, listener contributions and sponsored public service announcements.

Notable alumni

 * Debbie Cerda, 1994-1997 (film critic and contributing photographer, Slackerwood.com, member of Austin Film Critics Association)
 * Britt Daniel, 1992-1995 (Spoon)
 * John Dial (software designer, porn music expert)
 * Thomas Fawcett (contributing writer, Austin Chronicle and Living Blues)
 * Doug Freeman (founder, www.austinsound.net; contributing writer, Austin Chronicle)
 * Jett Garrison, 1997 - 2000 (film editor/director/producer, former commercial DJ)
 * Rodney Gibbs (chief innovation officer for The Texas Tribune, board member of Austin Film Society, advisory board member of KLRU)
 * Lotic (electronic musician)
 * Rosa Madriz (talent buyer/ Transmission Events; owner, Green Potato Ventures)
 * Austin Powell (staff writer, Austin Chronicle)
 * Jonathan Toubin (professional DJ and founder of New York Night Train)
 * Luke Winkie (contributing writer, Austin Chronicle)
 * Erik Wofford (producer/engineer, Cacophony Recorders)

title: KVRX


text: Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2005 October 5


text:
Braille translator

A braille translator is a software program that translates electronic text (such as an MS-Word file) into braille and sends it to a braille peripheral, such as a braille embosser (which produces a hard copy of the newly created braille). Typically, each language needs its own braille translator. Despite the use of the word translator, there is no language translation. Even in the simplest situation, such as Dutch braille, has complex rules for capitalization, emphasis, punctuation, typographic symbols, and page formatting.

Description
For the purposes of this article, the word "inkprint" means text prepared for reading by the eye, whether printed, displayed on a screen, or stored in a computer; "braille" means text prepared for reading by the finger, whether brailled, displayed on an electronic device, or stored in a computer.

Braille translation software or embedded hardware converts inkprint into braille or braille into inkprint. Usually, someone has inkprint in a word processor file or at an URL and wants braille. The braille could be sent to a braille embosser to produce physical braille or to an braille notetaker. Another circumstance is that someone has braille in an electronic braille notetaker that they want to produce in inkprint to be shared with someone who does not read braille.

Braille translation software is usually classified as assistive technology since the action of the software provides braille for a blind person. Braille translators can be run by people with or without sight.

A braille translator can run on a smartphone, personal computer, network server, or (historically) larger mini-computers or mainframes of larger institutions.

Some languages use uncontracted braille, where each letter uses a specific braille character. Uncontracted braille requires manipulation of capitalization, emphasis, numbers, and punctuation. Some languages use contracted braille, where the rules for various braille abbreviations are quite complex. For example, in contracted English braille, the word think (5 letters) is rendered as 3 characters: (th)(in)k. The use or non-use of these contractions is related to pronunciation. For example, the "th" sign is used in think, but not pothole. Unless properly programmed, a computer might make a mistake that no person would make, such as using the contraction for mother in the word chemotherapy. The most difficult part of producing braille is making the decision of when and when not to use contractions. When people make these decisions, it is braille transcription; when computers make these decisions, it is braille translation.

History
The first practical application of computer translation and production of braille used mainframe computers at the American Printing House for the Blind of Louisville, Kentucky.

During the 1960s, there was an MIT project to automate the production of braille. Robert Mann wrote and supervised software for braille translation called DOTSYS, while another group created an embossing device which became known as the "M.I.T. Braillemboss.". Eventually, MIT outsourced the software work to Mitre Corporation. The Mitre Corporation team of Robert Gildea, Jonathan Millen, Reid Gerhart and Joseph Sullivan (now president of Duxbury Systems) developed DOTSYS III, the first braille translator written in a portable programming language. DOTSYS III was developed for the Atlanta Public Schools as a public domain program.

At the first International Workshop on Computerized Braille Production, held in Muenster, Germany, March 1973, many braille-translation projects from around the world were described.

An archive of documents on the history of braille, braille translation, and some braille devices is maintained by Duxbury Systems.

title: Braille translator


text:
Richard D. Obenshain

Richard Dudley Obenshain (October 31, 1935 – August 2, 1978) was an American politician and attorney. Obenshain had served as the chairman of the Republican Party of Virginia and was nominated in 1978 to run as the Republican nominee for the United States Senate but died prior to the election.

Biography
Obenshain was the son of Josephine (Dudley) and Samuel S. Obenshain (1904–2000), a professor at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Virginia, where he grew up. The elder Obenshain was active in Virginia's Republican Party during the era of the Byrd Organization, the Democratic machine of Harry F. Byrd.

Richard graduated from Bridgewater College in Rockingham County, Virginia, and was admitted to the Virginia Bar. He was a delegate to the Republican National Convention in 1964. In that same year, he ran for the House of Representatives in VA's 3rd congressional district based in Richmond, facing Democratic State Delegate David E. Satterfield III. Obenshain nearly ended the long run of Democratic dominance in the district, losing by only 654 votes. He nearly won on the strength of Barry Goldwater carrying the district; Goldwater won every county-level jurisdiction in the district except for the city of Richmond. However, Republicans had been making inroads among Byrd Democrats for some time before then. As early as the 1930s, several Byrd Democrats had begun splitting their tickets for national elections due to the increasingly liberal bent of the national party.

Obenshain was the unsuccessful Republican candidate for Attorney General in 1969, and in 1972, successfully defeated Warren B. French for Chairman of the Virginia Republican Party.

By this time, the Byrd Organization had lost its grip on state politics. In 1966, two longtime Byrd stalwarts Senator A. Willis Robertson and Congressman Howard W. Smith, were ousted by more liberal primary challengers, and Byrd's son, Harry Jr., barely survived a primary challenge for the right to finish out his father's sixth term. Despite this and Byrd Democrats' growing willingness to split their tickets, the GOP was still all but nonexistent at the state and local level; conservative Democrats still held most local offices and dominated the Virginia General Assembly. Under Obenshain's leadership, however, a record number of Republicans were elected to the General Assembly, the first such major gains since Reconstruction in the late 19th century following the American Civil War.

In the summer of 1978, Obenshain won his party's nomination to run for the U.S. Senate to replace retiring William L. Scott. On the night of August 2, the small twin-engine Piper PA-34 Seneca airplane carrying him home from a campaign appearance crashed in trees while attempting a night-time landing at the Chesterfield County Airport, a general aviation facility near Richmond. Killed along with the 42-year-old candidate were Richard Neal and a flight instructor. Former U.S. Secretary of the Navy John Warner was selected to replace Richard Obenshain as the party's nominee for the U.S. Senate race. He won in November, and went on to hold the seat for 30 years.

Children
In 2003, two of Richard Obenshain's children enjoyed major successes in Virginia politics. First, his daughter, Kate Obenshain of Winchester, became the first woman to head the Republican Party of Virginia. Coincidentally, her opponent was state Republican party treasurer Richard Neel Jr., an Alexandria lawyer whose father was the pilot who died in the same crash as Richard Obenshain. Then, in November, Obenshain's son, Mark Obenshain, an attorney based in Harrisonburg, was elected to the Virginia State Senate from the 26th district. He was the 2013 Republican nominee for Attorney General of Virginia.

Legacy
According to an article in the Virginian-Pilot newspaper, his political legacy was "skill at birthing an alliance of Republicans and conservative Democrats, his prescient support of Ronald Reagan and bold tax cuts, and his tireless crusade to curb Democratic dominance in the state."

In Richmond, the state headquarters of the Republican Party of Virginia is named "The Richard D. Obenshain Center" in his honor.

 * The most important goal in my life is to have some significant impact in preserving personal freedom in the life of this country.
 * Richard D. Obenshain

According to Virginia State Senator Mark Obenshain (R-26), the above statement is slightly misquoted and should read as the following:

 * The most important goal in my life is to have some significant impact in preserving and expanding the realm of personal freedom in the life of this country.
 * Richard D. Obenshain

title: Richard D. Obenshain


text: User talk:129.21.114.36

title: User talk:129.21.114.36


text:
Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation pages with links/Challenge

Using bots
I know we can't use a bot to edit articles, but can we use a preprocessing bot to detect "obvious" disambig links before manually editing an article? Or one that goes through all the disambiguation pages and presents a nice searchable list of meanings for each dab? N (t/c) 01:28, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * You know, I've been mulling this over a lot - the ultimate purpose behind this challenge is to tap into competitive spirits in order to fix a large number of links in a short period of time... maybe there should be separate categories of contestants (bot assisted and manual) kind of like there's pro and amatuer sports. What do you think? -- BD2412 talk 01:41, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I think there should be three categories:
 * Manual
 * Using solvedisambiguation.py or another existing bot
 * Using own bot (must submit source)
 * N (t/c) 02:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That sounds good, and we can customize the prizes to match the categories. I'm going to add individual sign-up categories on the project page for the above, and for judges per the discussion below. -- BD2412 talk 04:19, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Judging
I've been thinking a bit about how we make sure people meet rules 5 & 7 (inaccurate disambig's and missing obvious disambig's). Should we have neutral (non-competing) judges look over everyone's entries? (I'd feel better with two or three sets of eyes looking over things). If so, I'd volunteer to be a judge.

I think it'd be necessary to make sure everyone gets an equal amount of scrutiny. Also, you know at some point someone may pipe up with the argument that the point is to disambiguate correctly not quickly. Having a good judging process will defuse this a bit. Whitejay251 03:08, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree that judging will be important, as the ultimate goal of this project is to improve Wikipedia - I'll put a sign-up for both judges and competitors on the project page. If we have, say, 5 editors competing, they could rack up 1000 disambigs in an hour, which is a lot to check - so judging will likely have to be through some kind of fairly random sampling process, maybe with a focus on links that are typically difficult to disambiguate. We'll probably need about as many judges as we have competitors, but there's also nothing to prevent competitors from checking each others work (in a collegial way, of course). On the other hand, at least it will be easy to pick out links to check, because each user will have a lengthy stretch of disambig fixes in their contributions. -- BD2412 talk 04:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Pre-challenge preparations
I'm enthusiastic about anything to help along link repair. In the rules it seems that you can open tabs before the contest. So, depending on the performance of your computer, you could open up 500 tabs/windows, make the neccessary edits and then wait for the start of the race to then spend one hour submiting all the edits? Seems a little dodgey.--Commander Keane 09:02, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Dodgey, yes, but inevitable - part of my rationale for that rule is that there's simply no effective way to determine when a user opened a tab. Besides, I have a decent computer and DSL and I can't have more than about 50 open before my computer gets overwhelmed and turns into a slushbucket. On top of that, if we have a bunch of contestants who all try that strategy, I suspect they'll all aim for the easy fixes (e.g. "American") and edit-conflict each other out. And, of course, if we do have two or three users knock out 500 disambig links apiece over the course of an hour, that's a good thing for Wikipedia! -- BD2412 talk 13:00, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is good for Wikipedia and I don't have a problem with it if 50 is generally the technical limitation. While I'm here, I noticed that if you miss an obvious link then you get disqualifed. Does this include every current entry from Link repair and link maintainence? That could make the competition a tortoise versus hare event, interesting. --Commander Keane 03:08, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * No mere footrace, this will require strategy and attention to detail! Makes it more fun, I think. But to be clear (and I think this is what you meant) the editor does not get disqualified from the competition for missing a link, he just doesn't get the article counted in his favor. -- BD2412 talk 03:25, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I was about to point out the distinction between the participant geting disqualified and the particular edit not counting towards their total - but you caught me in a edit conflict. (Yes if someone is being a hare and misses a whole bunch of disambigs, they'll get tripped up. Like BD2412 says this is looking like it might take some forethought as how to approach the problem to win, as opposed to a mad rush.) Anyway, this reminds me, do we want to say that multiple edits to the same page count as just one edit? I can see reasons for both sides on the question. On the one hand, people can fix mistakes if the realize that they missed some obvious ones on a page. On the other hand, people can pad their number by choosing to do one at a time on single page. Whitejay251 03:39, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That's why I think it has to be one point per article, not per edit. In my experience, most articles have just one link to disambig - but some are chock full of them. I think it will balance out. -- BD2412 talk 03:42, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Guerrillafinga

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. – ABCD✉ 03:39, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Guerrillafinga
Advertise of nn band. 202.156.6.61 01:28, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. A lot of Google hits ~1300, but no evidence that they meet WP:MUSIC.  Jkelly 02:30, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Very Weak Keep. -- Under WP:MUSIC #6. Their album was described as "one of the area's best" by the Fairfield County Weekly and StarPolish.com says they're the first group to perform "rasta gangsta" . Ben D. 02:46, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * keep per Ben D. Kappa 04:03, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep as per Ben D, seems this one just makes it. Mallocks 21:58, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Advertising. Gamaliel 00:14, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Barely fails WP:MUSIC but still fails. --JAranda | yeah 02:04, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. nonnotable. Abot 190 unique google hits. Mentioned references nonnotable themselves. mikka (t) 02:24, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete nn.  Grue  12:28, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:Battle of Cape Passaro

Sense
What does this mean: On 2 August 1718 the Quadruple Alliance by the Holy Roman Empire, Kingdom of France, Kingdom of Great Britain and the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands, demanding the Spanish withdraw its invading forces from Sicily and Sardinia.? Drutt (talk) 22:44, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Poor description of the battle
Looked at this article when it was featured. The description of the actual battle is confusing, but I found, when following the link to the (also featured) article on HMS_Superb_(1710), that the description of the same battle there is much clearer! Mrnatural (talk) 20:17, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes I agree. I suggest taking much of the Superb discussion and grafting it in here. Baska436 (talk) 23:55, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Battle of Cape Passaro


text:
User:Znode/Humor/Bŷgmunní University

Bŷgmunní University is an Ivy League private university founded in 1061 in Ivyhinthint, Massachusetts, USA. Originally established to be an monopoly on education, it has been the sole-choice university for natural geniuses for nearly a millenia. It is commonly regarded as the only university to attend for those remotely desiring a future, with a strong academic emphasis on geniusdom. The main campus and its subsidary wings are originally referred to as simply "Bŷgmunní"; however, it is now known colloquially as "have a future". This idiomatic usage is demonstrated by the following quote from New Bork Times. Parent A: "Hey, is your son going to have a future? Parent B (Dejected): "No." Parent A: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

History
Bŷgmunní University was founded by Phencí Fourin-Naim Bŷgmunní (1001-1062) under the premise of blah blah blah, a philosophy inspired by Galvinicus in A.D. 273 with the raison d'être of "horizontal coherent incremental actuating conglomeration principles." In 1419, with the influence of the Renaissance upon Europe, there was a shift in business model overview with the goals of Bŷgmunní modified to "horizontal coherent incremental actuating agglomeration principles", radically shifting the future of Bŷgmunní for years to come.

Admissions
Admission to Bŷgmunní is often considered extremely fatal, for competitive reasons. Admission is determined fundamentally via five categories, or "pillars", of success. GPA is one factor; the average GPA of the Bŷgmunní 2005 undergraduate class is 6.21. A 2500+ SAT is also considered a critical pillar. The final three decisive categories consists of "Nobel Prize count", "percentage of world under reign", and "responsibility".

Bŷgmunní features a unique classification system of Nobel Prize counts not found in any other university. An undergraduate with the possession of three Nobel Prizes are awarded the honor of "Nobel Scholar". Four-Nobel winners are eligible for the title of "Nobel Scholar with Honors", while those with five can apply for "Nobel Scholar with Distinction".

Further, Bŷgmunní believes that social interaction and personal charisma are important traits in the quality of character. According to Bŷgmunní, "students with political control of a minor nation before their junior year in high school have a significant chance of attending this prestigious college."

Students are finally expected to complete homework on time.

Campus Life
The cost of attending Bŷgmunní is commonly believed to be approximately $2.3 billion US dollars per year. There are many advantages to attending Bŷgmunní, including, but not limited to:
 * Enhanced dormitories -- the dorm system at Bŷgmunní fully conform to the regulatory standards ISO 3001-1 and ANSI 472-6, "Crate Storage of Conventional Munitions."
 * Extracurricular Activities -- Contrary to popular belief, Bŷgmunní students are not fully obsessed with academia. Many extracurricular activities, such as ingestion, sleep, and movement are fully tolerated, and to an extent even encouraged, on the Bŷgmunní campus.

title: User:Znode/Humor/Bŷgmunní University


text:
Coal Creek Station

Coal Creek Station is the largest power plant in the U.S. state of North Dakota. Located near the Missouri River between Underwood, North Dakota, and Washburn, North Dakota, it burns lignite. Its two generators are each rated at 605 megawatts (Unit 1 went in service in 1979, Unit 2 came online in 1980), with a peak total production of nearly 1.2 gigawatts. Great River Energy had announced its intention to close the plant in 2022 if a new owner could not be found. On June 30, 2021, Great River Energy announced that they had reached an agreement to sell the plant to Rainbow Energy Center, LLC, who plans to continue to operate the plant. On May 2, 2022 the sale of Coal Creek Station and the high voltage direct current (HVDC) transmission system was completed.

The boiler building of Coal Creek Station is 89.91 meters high. The chimney of Coal Creek Station is 198.12 metres tall. Coal Creek Station is the third-largest producer of coal ash in the country, generating over four million pounds of surface waste stored onsite each year.

Waste heat utilization
Coal Creek Station was the testing site for Great River Energy's Lignite Enhancement System. Their project, “DryFining,” created a new technology for coal-firing power plants that improves fuel quality, decreases volatile gas emissions, and reduces a plant’s operating expenses and maintenance costs. The Great River Energy team also included fluid bed dryer engineer Heyl & Patterson Inc. of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the U.S. Department of Energy’s National Energy Technology Laboratory,  Lehigh University’s Energy Research Center, the Electric Power Research Institute and engineering construction contractor WorleyParsons. The team was awarded with Power Engineering magazine’s 2010 Coal-Fired Project of the Year.

Some of the waste heat generated by the coal combustion is also utilized by the nearby Blue Flint Ethanol plant.

title: Coal Creek Station


text:
Talk:Battle of Osan

Vandalism?
Has some bellend vandalised this article or is the first paragraph meant to refer to Mexico so frequently? 92.19.152.174 (talk) 21:13, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

LtCol Charles B. Smith
the LtCol Charles B. Smith listed redirects to a page about a completely different person (evident since the latter Smith dies 20 years before the former Smith fought in Korea) I will remove the link. BritBoy 22:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Evaluation
There are a couple of references listed. Do they and other sources consider the battle to have achieved any strategic purpose? Did the delay allow defense forces to better prepare, or was it a meaningless sacrifice? What have military historians said about the higher meaning of the battle? The article needs something in this line. Edison (talk) 00:05, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

"vastly outnumbered"
I understand that Americans who edit here want to have some excuse for the debacle, but 1:2 is not "vastly outnumbered" in the defense. It's actually a quite good ratio for the defenders. The rule of thumb is that an attacker wants a 3:1 superiority. The North Koreans had no strong artillery support and inferior rifles, so 2:1 was no promising ratio for an attack at all. Lastdingo (talk) 16:04, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

 * "Outbreak of War" lists 89,000 invading North Koreans routing 38,000 South Korean, which is the 2 invader to 1 defender ratio. Battle of Osan (subject of article) lists the strength of the opposing forces as US 540 infantry with limited antitank artillery versus North Korea 5,000 infantry with 36 tanks, which is approx 10 invader to 1 defender ratio, not even considering the advantage of the tanks. Naaman Brown (talk) 18:00, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note this info may not have been correct or as comprehensive when the original comment was posted; the article underwent drastic improvement in 2009-2010. — Ed! (talk) 20:22, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Task Force Smiths letter to President Reagan
The following is a telegram sent to President Reagan in 1985.

Dear Mr. President

28 surviving members of 406 infantrymen and the 134 artillerymen who made up Task Force Smith, the first unit sent to Korea by President Truman on June 30, 1950 have just assembled commemorate the 35th anniversary of the first ground engagement of the Korean War. We were proud then and we are proud now to have been in the vanguard of the U.S. efforts to stop the new Communist aggressions spear-headed by terrorists.

Task Force Smith was able to slow the onslaught of the North Korea's armored attack of a force 50 times its own size. It failed to halt the attack because our pitifully undersized, seven year old 2.36 antitank rocket launcher (bazooka) would not penetrate the 16 year old tank (i.e. Soviet T-34/85) we faced. It has been known by the U.S. Army throughout this weapon's life that it would not kill the tanks of its day, yet we were sent to war with it. We are sure President Truman did not know how badly we were equipped when we were committed.

We now find that the U.S. Army is again in the same situation and we are sure that you do not know how bad this is. THE INFANTRY STILL DOES NOT HAVE A WEAPON IN THE FRONT LINE RIFLE COMPANIES OF ITS LIGHT INFANTRY DIVISIONS THAT WILL KILL A MODERN TANK. We find this disgraceful and an unfitting monument for the men out regiment lost in its firsts days in Korea. We want you to know this so you will not commit forces believing, as did President Truman, that they are properly equipped for a fighting mission and that they will be anything other than a token sacrifice.

General William E. Depuy, the recently retired four star commander of the Army's training and doctrine command (TRADOC) used the June, 1985 issue of Army magazine to discuss some elements of the disaster that is awaiting the light infantry [i.e. non armored/mechanized] when it nexts confronts tanks. He quotes General Gavin, the wartime commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, "sad" comments about our own regiment, still equipped with the WWII Bazooka being overrun seven years after he knew the weapon had no value. GAVIN HIMSELF DISCUSSES THE "SAD EXPERIENCE" OF BURYING PARATROOERS WHO "HAD PIECES OF BAZOOKAS (i.e. 2.36 inch version) GROUND UP IN THEM BY TANKS AS THEY WERE CRUSHED.

General Depuy cites the heroism of one our Lts., Ollie Conners, who got 22 futile bazooka hits on the tanks that overran us. He knows that "the shame of the weapons development community" has to be "bailed out with the only currency (available) the lives of our brave troops." Unfortunately, heroism is a scarce and fleeting commodity and we would not sacrifice it merely to to keep incompetent weapons developers in business. General Depuy (and we) expect that "we will be faced, inevitably, with a rerun of Task Force Smith" if we do not "think through this problem now and move with speed to resolve."

We urge you in the name of our departed comrades to require the Army and our defense industry to correct this disgraceful situation now. We do not want other Americas soldiers to face tanks in 1985 with the equivalent of what we had in 1950, nearly bare hands, and a weapon that could only annoy the enemy's tankers by scratching their paint. This situation needs correction now, not at the leisure of the weapons developers.

Sincerely, Respectfully and Faithfully

Bill McCarthy, First Sgt., US Army

(Retired) Representing the Present and

Past members of Task Force Smith

2881 North Star Road

Columbus OH 43221

Source> Wire Guided Antitank Missiles page 8, Command Publication EAGLE February 1987. The full text of the Task Force Smith veteran's letter was published in that article due to reports and controversy then that US Army and US Marine infantry antitank weapons were ineffective against the new Russian T-72 fitted with reactive armour boxes.

Jackehammond (talk) 05:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed citation format, if you can provide the ISBN number and the issue number, the citation would look more professional. Jim101 (talk) 21:37, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Issue and volume number just added. Jim101 (talk) 20:42, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I have removed the source. Firstly, it's a telegram sent by a soldier, which is a primary source, wikipedia generally relies on secondary sources (Historians, military experts). Secondly, it's linked to this talk page, which is partly a problem with it being WP:CIRCULAR, and partly that talk pages can get edited and archived. I'm not even sure the source is required to support any of the existing text in the article.( Hohum  @ ) 13:00, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

HMS
A very impressive article! Just one minor point that might fairly be described as pedantic. Except to veterans. The correct description of a British Royal Navy warship is  "HMS [name]"  and never  "the HMS [name]" . The mis-applied  "the HMS name"  in it's full form reads as  "The Her Majesty's Ship [name]" . Clearly a grammatical nonsense. For what it's worth, the main offenders are a new, poorly trained generation of British journalists, who like most of their generation have never served their country in uniform. That's not their fault, it's just the way it is, with the reductions in British defence forces since 1945. Hope this is helpful. George.Hutchinson (talk) 10:38, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That was more of a problem of the grammatical construction of the sentence. It has been amended. — Ed! (talk) 20:21, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Citation format change.
Please don't make wholesale changes the reference format without discussion per WP:CITEVAR. (Also please don't link dates per MOS:UNLINKYEARS) ( Hohum  @ ) 07:43, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

"the nation's neighbor"?
The current introduction cites: "On the night of June 25, 1950, ten divisions of the North Korean People's Army launched a full-scale invasion of the nation's neighbor to the south, the Republic of Korea." This claims that North Korea and South Korea were separate nations, whereas at the time both north and south governments considered themselves the legitimate government of the single nation of Korea. At that time, none of the UN, U.S., Russia, or either government had agreed to divide Korea into separate nations. cf. Division of Korea -- John Kim (talk) 02:06, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Obsolete Anti Tank weapons?
How the WW2 Basooka and the 1945-1950 Era Recoiless Rifle could be considered obsolete used against WW2 Soviet Era t-34???' Its sounds more to me as a justification rather than acepting that the tanks overrun the small U.S detachment.200.48.214.19 (talk) 13:38, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, we're not talking about the early WWII-era T-34. We're talking about the T-34-85 which came into common use later, and which was significantly more armored. Also, the Recoiless had been used primarily against light armor. Third, the condition of the weapons may have been a factor. — Ed! (talk) 01:13, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The T-34-85 came into service in 1944, and was thus of the same vintage as the bazooka and RCL. It was inferior equipment rather than obsolete.Royalcourtier (talk) 05:58, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Successful outcome?
The task force was instructed to stop the North Koreans. That was of course impossible,. But to say that "Task Force Smith accomplished its mission of delaying North Korean forces from advancing for several hours" is utterly wrong too. The mission was to stop the North Koreans, not delay them for a few hours.Royalcourtier (talk) 05:56, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Battle of Osan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140203213849/http://land-warfare.com/?p=209 to http://land-warfare.com/?p=209

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 23:47, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Battle of Osan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140203204742/http://www.koreanwarmemorials.org/domestic/united-nations/monument-to-the-first-battle-of-un-forces-in-the-korean-war/ to http://www.koreanwarmemorials.org/domestic/united-nations/monument-to-the-first-battle-of-un-forces-in-the-korean-war/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 18:35, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Battle of Osan


text:
Talk:Poi (performance art)

Untitled
see: Talk:Poi_%28food%29 for discussion prior to spliting from Poi (food)

Wide popularity where?
The last paragraph needs clarification it states: "Today, poi swinging is seeing wide popularity." Is this within Maori culture which is what the first two paragraphs deals with, or within New Zealand culture or globally? Htaccess 01:30, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Globally. adamrice 20:34, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I can add some corroboration in that fire poi is quite popular at Warwick University in the UK. PeteVerdon 00:28, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Confirmation again. It's fairly popular in Sheffield, UK too. I know aeveral people that do it. --81.174.244.104 00:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Definitely globally. There are even people here in Taiwan who do poi and fire poi.--59.121.207.47 06:22, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I know nobody in the southern california area that even remotely knows what this is, or finds it interesting. sorry... really, nobody i know, whether at college, school, parties knows about this. i believe general public is an overexaggeration —Preceding unsigned comment added by Larrygoroundz (talk • contribs)

fire poi is definitely thing along the west coast of Canada — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2407:7000:8250:5941:6C01:40D9:BC7C:D83A (talk) 02:37, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

revert on 18 oct 2005
I have reverted the latest edits. Although they were clearly well-intentioned, they failed the NPOV ("beautiful" = value judgment, even if I agree) test, were too sweeping (comments not true of all poi spinners, or even a majority), and would better be discussed in the firedancing article, since the comments could equally be applied to staff, fans, etc. I'd suggest something along the lines of "firedancers often infuse their performance with techniques from various martial-arts or dance traditions, including African dance, belly dance, capoeira, tai-chi, etc." adamrice 14:10, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup
A lot of recent edits have had NPOV problems or excessively conversational tone. I am trying to clean up. This is not a how-to guide but a general introduction. If you want to write a how-to guide, we've got wikibooks for that adamrice 15:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Home of Poi link
I am going to restore the HoP link. Although it is certainly a commercial site, it also has a very lively forum and a lot of non-commercial resources.

I believe the comment above is by adamrice. Adam, in reviewing links from Wikipedia it appeared that every page remotely related to fire spinning, glowstick twirling and the like had a link to Home of Poi. Home of Poi is a commercial website with lots of resources but there are now other active communities that have just as much information and less commercial focus. e.g. Spherculism, Tribe, etc. I'm open to discussion on this point but for now I'm going to remove links to Home of Poi. Fireguy 06:04, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * With all due respect, while Home of Poi may happen to contain a shop, it's more a community oriented website. It's also the largest and (probably) most influential poi community in the world, with members there coining phrases that are now in most poi spinners' vocabulary ('Hyperloop', for instance). The commercial part of the website is more for the convenience of others (being as equipment sold elsewhere can often be flimsy and poorly constructed. Further, it has a comprehensive amount of general information (including fire safety) and seemingly the single largest collection of poi photographs available on the web. No offence, but to exclude it seems slightly foolish. Being based in New Zealand, the community is, to all intents and purposes, the home of poi. --Xanthine 09:38, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Xanthine, I agree that Home of Poi is an excellent resource and that at one point it was the primary source of information about Poi (juggling), but my point is that there are now quite a few other websites that do a great job of providing instructional, historical, or safety information without a commercial focus. As well Poi has become more popular over the years and there are quite a few reputable web based businesses that sell well made poi / twirling toys. Where do we draw the line in providing links to commercial websites? Should links be added to all the commercial vendors of poi products that have some sort of community offering? Or is it only Home of Poi that deserves this because in your opinion it is the biggest? Or because in your opinion the products they sell are better than those sold elsewhere?

 * I am reviewing the home page of Home of Poi and it is clear that the commercial part of the website is more than just a 'convenience'. The store is well integrated throughout the site, there are 11 links to the store from the home page, it offers coupon codes and affiliate programs, international conversion rates, over a hundred products, 10 payment methods including all major credit cards, it is a limited liability company, and it offers wholesale pricing, I'm fairly sure that if we asked the owner of Home of Poi what the majority of their time was spent on it would be handling the commercial part of the website, not building and developing community. I've left the link for now and I'm quite interested in your thoughts, as well as any other opinions out there Fireguy 04:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Rest assured, my friend, I fully understand your concerns. I simply feel that HoP is a noteworthy website even inspite of it's commercial content. Personally, I would draw the line at websites with no community or informational content, or where such content is minimal. Consider the websites http://www.firetoys.co.uk & http://flamesngames.co.uk/ - These sites are simply online retailers and any information therein is purely associated with the products they sell. As such, it is an inappropriate link. On the other hand, the website http://www.domorepoi.com is in the process of setting up a small store to help fund the hosting and administration costs of running a forum. What those products are is fairly irrelevant to this discussion. http://www.poipoi.info has a shop (first link in it's navigation bar). It's link is still on the wiki page and a number of people allege that their products are sub-standard.

 * This is all, of course, opinion. I just feel that HoP is influential enough that we should include it in this instance. Oh, and by the by, you may wish to consider including http://www.soton-firespinning.co.uk on the list. Or not. But I'll leave that one to your discretion. =)
 * --Xanthine 14:37, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I have to say that I have been spinning fire since 2001 and I have been an active member of the HOP community since that time. Yes, Malcolm Crawshay, who runs the site, does run the HOP store.  Yes, there are links to the store from the community site.  Malcolm is an honest businessman who does not ever require or solicit business from community members.  His main interest is the integrity of the community and the art.  His livelihood is selling safe fire gear.  In fact, I consider having a link that contains the store to be important for safety reasons.  HOP goods are well-constructed and safe.  I have never heard of a HOP product failing during proper use.  I have had products from other retailers fall apart in mid-spin showering audience and fuel dump alike with embers and sparks.  If readers are going to seek to buy goods, then I'd rather they go to HOP, which offers lots of information on safety and proper technique than other sites.  No other site, not PIP, Soton, Sphereculism, or any other has quite the collection of information on fire arts that HOP has.  The link needs to stay.  MikeGinny 05:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I relucantly agree with you. HOP has a lot of information in one place, and is the 'starting point' for a large number of people. It has notability in spades. I'll take a little issue with your suggestion that the store should be there specifically for safety reasons, I have seen HOP gear fail under use due to questionable design and assembly choices. I'm not saying HOP gear is dangerous, but there is better to be found out there. Phidauex 14:32, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

An Apology
Sorry for any lack of NPOV on my major edit of this article -- I must confess, I'm not particularly experienced in writing articles, and it's tricky when you're passionate about a subject. My intention was, and still is, to provide a more enlightening entry for Wikipedia. Previously, this acticle actually said nothing of poi in relation to juggling culture and it's place in modern society.

And incidentally, it was never intended to be a "How-to" guide. Simply a discussion of techniques employed by many people in what is generally a do-it-yourself hobby. --Xanthine 15:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

safety
Are you sure that the wording on the safety section is right? I would advise anyone to have a go on practice poi first, not encourage any novice to try fire spinning without someone more experienced there, and fire equipment in case.

 * That section was put in by a crank (User:65.165.130.1) and has slipped under the radar since. Will edit. Thanks for pointing that out. adamrice 17:33, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Merger
I think the article Fire poi should be merged into the fire poi section. The fire poi article is about the same size as the section in the poi article. Also much of the background information is relevent to both normal and fire poi, so the fire poi article will either repeat large ammounts of the poi article, or leave users uniformed if they do not then find the poi article. Poobarb 13:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. No point in that being a separate article. adamrice 15:35, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. (one place where me too posts are useful!) Htaccess 13:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. RomanSpa 01:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Raerth 01:16, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Fireguy 05:49, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Quiddity 09:36, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Bam, merged! Don't be afraid to be bold, folks. For something pretty cut and dry like this (merging a stub into a full article), I usually give the merge request about two weeks, and then I do it, we don't need to wait tooo long, unless there is major criticism of the idea. Peace. Phidauex 17:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Wraps section
Does anyone else think this section is a bit pointless? It describes three different wraps which are all variations of the same basic wrap; it doesn't even mention thru-wraps which are at least different enough to be considered almost a separate move. And the diagram is a bit pointless. If nobody else objects I'll clear it up into a single more generic paragraph... spiralx 12:35, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Frankly, I don't think this article should be a how-to at all. I'd prefer seeing that kind of thing placed under the wikibooks project. adamrice 17:06, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't think the section should be deleated entirely. There are precedents for articles about moves for a discipline e.g Skateboarding tricks, so maybe it would be appropriate to move the poi tricks section to a seperate article, and just leave a general overview in the main article. The "it doesn't even mention thru-wraps" argument is a case for adding this information, not removing what is already there. Also, it would be inappropriate to give attention to other clases of moves such as weaves and butterflies and ignore wraps. (Poobarb 23:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC))

 * Indeed I think that something on moves is appropriate, but a more generic overview of a range of moves rather than what's currently there which is very over-specific. Whether that's on its own page or not I have less of an opinion on... spiralx 16:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

 * To be perfectly honest, this article is in no way a "how-to guide". To see what one of those would look like, visit the external links. This article does, however, explain enough about the mentioned tricks and moves that someone witnessing a poi performance would have some insight into what moves are what, and as such they may glean a better appreciation of the difficulty of the move and the dexterity required.

 * I'm not disagreeing with the idea of a moves section, but just saying that the wraps bit is way too over-focused and the section needs to be general spiralx 13:09, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Actually all the moves sections are a tad lengthy... Suggest removing the sub-sections and just giving a summary of the shape of the move and a couple of it's possible variations. Perhaps reels and tangles should be given a mention too?

 * I've trimmed the wraps and butterfly sections, see what you think... and reels should definitely go in spiralx 21:57, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

 * A trim? Looks more like a shave :P
 * But yeah, much better. Nice work man. Now we just have to sort out the weave section and the Further moves section (NPOV-less as it is). --Xanthine 09:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Thus-

Butterflies

The butterfly is one of the central moves that a number of poi tricks stem from. These tricks are so named as when viewed from the front, the poi appear to be flapping horizontally like a butterfly's wings. The poi are swung in a forwards direction in phase with each other. The hands are then both moved in front of the swinger so that the poi traverse a circle in front of the spinner, the left poi spinning clockwise, the right poi anti-clockwise. One hand will be above the other one (typically the spinner's better hand) and their angles very slightly offset to prevent the poi from colliding as they cross at the top and bottom of their respective circles. Advanced variations can involve having one or both hands behind the head and hands moving through the planes in which the strings spin ("Threading the Needle").

 * Does that sound better? =) --Xanthine 22:38, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

flagging link
I have reverted the recent flagging link. While flagging is clearly related to poi and deserves mention somewhere, there's nothing in this article that leads up to it, and it's not clear to me whether the link that was provided is what flaggers would consider a primary resource. adamrice 13:18, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

history
The article leaves me wondering about how long poi have been in use by the Maori, how important/widespread use among them is, and how they spread to rave/juggling/etc culture... -- Akb4 18:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

The statement that Maori still practise poi today is slightly misleading. It suggests that it is used in a traditional context. It is not. Poi are only used to entertain tourists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.184.41.226 (talk) 00:36, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Plural
Where is 'poi' the plural of poi? In the UK/ROI we say pois. Njál 14:03, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I've never heard anyone say "pois," nor noticed anyone using it in an online discussion. I'm in the USA. adamrice 16:44, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * poi is the plural of poi in Māori, which uses definite or indefinite articles and context to distinguish plural. Increasingly, when Māori words are used in New Zealand English, no -s is added to the plural. Kahuroa 05:16, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well then in the UK/ROI you're wrong.--59.121.207.47 06:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

"(the word poi means "ball" in Māori)"
Since when? It means "to pound or hit" in Hawaiian, and last I was aware, the translation in Maori is "to hit" as well. I suppose it could also refer to poi balls, but I don't think the word in general means a generic ball. I could be wrong, though, and I don't want to remove that unless I have a good reason to, but could someone please verify the truth in that one? — K e  akealani  08:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Kia ora, Ae (Yes) poi does mean ball in Maori. Patu means to hit or strike. Nga mihi Te Whetumarama 23:19, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Impartial art?
I've never heard this phrase before, in connection with poi or anything else. Furthermore the note that attempts to define it fails to. Leading off the article with something as puzzling and obscure as this is ill-considered. adamrice 21:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Impartial Art
(Paragraph herewith retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:B9_hummingbird_hovering")

Adamrice: I know that your edits are well-intentioned, but they're also very idiosyncratic. I believe that as an introduction to the subject, they're more inclined to raise questions for readers than to answer them. adamrice 15:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Beauford's *retort*: Idiosyncratic?  Please qualify.  Where is it set in stone that Wikipedia is just to be an introduction to a subject?  It is my considered opinion that this article requires some scholarly-sexing-up.  Do you engage an Impartial Art as discipline?  The mind processes and forges new neural connectivity when it is confused which is why Zen Masters use koans amongst other methods.  Are you familiar with NLP, hypnotherapy, trance~forms and meditation?  Juggling is a study in the resolution of bodymind confusion into an 'Artful Grace'.

I look 4ward to dialogue with view to establish Common ground.

Namaste in agape

Walking my talk in beauty

B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 16:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

... I completely failed to understand any of what you just said. Could you please explain what you mean, rather than giving us a bunch of links to research to try and piece together what your actual position might be? I had the same issue with the use of "impartial art" in the basic description of the topic, as well as its description as "clever" in the footnote -- the explanation doesn't sound clever to me at all ("impartial" versus "martial" don't seem like a very reasonable dichotomy to me), and its relative cleverness is totally subjective and doesn't seem to me like it should be included. 71.222.102.73 08:35, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Twirling a poi is hardly art, and not exactly rocket science either. The statement that unlike "many physical arts, learning poi does not usually involve formal education". Formal education is not the usual wording for such things, I suggest "any instruction or training" would be better.203.184.41.226 (talk) 00:39, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Removed From "Popular Culture" Section
User 207.31.229.4 tagged this section with a tag, but I'm going to pull it altogether pending some verification:

Among the notable highly skilled poi spinners is Dae (Last name undisclosed), who is not only talented at the art, but who wields them also as a weapon through which he  is capable of channeling electricity for added damage to his enemies.

If this isn't a comic book or gaming reference, then I'm a minor deity. There's nothing wrong with such references being included, but they require a clear context: in which comic book, game, or other medium does this character appear?
 * Septegram * Talk * Contributions * 21:44, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Comets and Dragon-Poi
What´s about non-fire-Poi? There are only pictures of Firedancers an one traditional Maori-Image. No blacklight-spinning, one glowpoi and almost firepoi in various moves. Please have a look at the german article. Happy spinning...

"Impartial Art" removed
I have removed the obscure, unhelpful, and indeed duplicated references to something called "impartial art". It is not at all apparent that this term "cleverly associates juggling arts with Martial arts" nor is it clear that its "poignant point-counterpoint contrasts the inherently non-violent aspect of juggling disciplines"

The term may have appeared in a minor book published 15 years ago. But "impartial art" does not appear in this sense anywhere on Google, except of course in the Wikipedia article itself, and other articles derived from this! In other words, the only currency the term has gained has been generated by the unfortunate Wikipedia article itself. Geronimo20 01:36, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Well that was a waste of time. "B9 hummingbird hovering" has reinstalled that stuff and then added even more stuff, with no citations, which characterise Poi as primarily a martial arts discipline. Sigh. I've reverted it  -   Geronimo20 06:11, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Third opinion
I agree with the reversion. Searching for the term "impartial art" on Google, I can't find any indication that the term is anything but original research on the part of an obscure book author. A bunch of hits do come up, but many refer to this Wikipedia article and the rest don't relate to martial arts or Poi. =Axlq 03:49, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Hopefully the stub on Poier's Adjustable Knot can be merged here, or else improved. See also comments at Talk:Poier's Adjustable Knot. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 10:18, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Article title
As a New Zealander, I find the idea that poi is a form of juggling to be bizarre and mildly offensive, ditto for the use of the word "tricks". I would suggest that the article be moved to Poi (artform) or poi (performing art). Also, the article seems to have attained undue weight on the non-traditional forms that have achieved popularity outside New Zealand. I will propose the page as a candidate for a WikiProject New Zealand collaboration. Possibly it should be split to articles on traditional and non-traditional forms? dramatic (talk) 06:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It's a crock. It's not quite up there with our current Eskimo controversy, but traditional and meaningful activities are being lumped in with circus acts. Pisses me off no end. Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 08:44, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Perspective is everything; if considering number of practitioners, traditional poi forms were only the nucleus- and have long since been eclipsed by contemporary forms; while I would personally like to see traditional forms treated in greater detail, the focus on contemporary forms used world wide does not constitute undue weight.  Vitriolic proclamations of worth are counter productive to the purpose of this space- constructive discourse on the development of the article.   Comparisons to other venerated traditions as an aspersion is decidedly derisive.   This or any other Wikipedia article is not a platform for correcting social ills, attempts at social engineering, or political debate.   Attempting to work with the interest of others -instead of starting off at cross purposes- will have far greater success at achieving your aims.--Mavigogun (talk) 10:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Two things. First, the title. In no way, shape or form is poi twirling a form of juggling. I suggest moving the article to something like Poi twirling or Poi (performing art). Secondly, the comparatively small focus on Māori poi can be rectified simply by adding more information about it: a WikiProject Collaboration sounds like a great idea. Honestly though, if we get to the point where the article presents both forms in substantial detail, then we might be better off splitting it. What we'd call the two resultant articles is a different debate entirely. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 12:22, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I concur regarding the title: while strictly in keeping with meaning and etymology of the word "juggling", its common usage does not have this connotation, nor (I believe) is the term widely used to describe the practice by most practitioners ("spinning" is the word I encounter most often).  At some point, perhaps for a disambiguation page, someone felt a need to impose the classification.Mavigogun (talk) 13:55, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I've moved the article to Poi (performance art).- gadfium 01:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

TKI reference
My wife (who grew up in ruatoria) has serious doubts about some of the material in the reference TKI - she says the purpose of poi was to develop dexterity for weaving, not weaponary, and doubts if we would find any early reference or image to a male using poi. (The source TKI uses, Jump Rope for Heart has an agenda to make poi sound attractive to primary schoolboys. I'm off to the library later in search of better sources. dramatic (talk) 19:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That TKI site bothers me, especially as it is an "initiative of the Ministry of Education" and I intend to query them about it. The TKI reference does not support the article where it is stated that poi originated (partly) "as an exercise of movements central to the use of hand weapons including the taiaha, and club-like patu, mere, and kotiate". Kaiwhakahaere (talk) 03:12, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I now have Ngāmoni Huata's book, and will also try and source an academic work by the likes of Elsdon Best or similar. I agree that it should be queried. A desire to have poi as a mixed-gender school activity without opposition from boys claiming that it's "girly" is no justification for rewriting cultural history. I had thought we were beyond that sort of thing now. Mind you, giving a bunch of seven-year-old boys poi is a heck of a lot safer than giving them taiaha!dramatic (talk) 03:20, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like your suspicions were well-founded, based on Karyn Paringatai's thesis I've just linked to. Snori (talk) 11:09, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

PhD researcher Karyn Paringatai quite correctly states that 'poi' were originally balls in ancient Maori society, developed directly from the Pasifika ball implement called 'pei' which were brought to NZ by the first waka. So 'poi' really does mean ball. The traditional balls were weaved from flax and many ball games were traditionally played. Poi as balls on a string used in dance developed centuries later, perhaps even after first European contact as there are NO validated historical accounts of poi being used by Maori women in dances until first sighted and recorded by Europeans in 1814 - some 45 years after Captain Cooks first visit in 1769. It is more realistic that dance poi developed from those first used by warriors in pre-contact times, as some forms were used as weopons, attached on long ropes with rock poi heads to concuss attackers hiding below pa pallisades under rock ledges. If you ignore the warrior origins of poi (which does get a by-line in the History of Poi) you then tread on thin ice regarding poi as 'traditional'. Ripeka —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.160.127.105 (talk) 19:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Home of Poi: Round Two
I'm surprised that HOP isn't on the list here considering every poi spinner I've ever talked to has mentioned it or known about it. It's a long standing community that, yes, has a commercial aspect but so do others on the list. And since Poi Lessons is now seemingly defunct, I have added HOP and taken Poi Lessons off. - Kitanne (talk) 00:20, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree, HoP is a wealth of knowlege, Perhaps have the link linking to the Lessons/Articles section of the site rather than just the Home Page thereby removing any possible issues people may have about linking to a site that has a prominant commercial section. Moka20 01:21, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Does anyone have any objections to my suggestion for linking to the lessons/articles pages on Home of Poi? If no objections in the next month I'll add the link to those pages. Moka20 06:47, 23 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moka20 (talk • contribs)

Clarifying the introductions
I've revised the general and modern poi introductions to make them a bit clearer. In the general introduction I tried to clarify that 'poi' can refer to both the performance art and the tools used for it. In the modern poi introduction I tried to show that traditional and modern poi are both practiced today, give a high-level overview of some of the differences, suggest places where people might see it performed, and emphasize the community element.

Given that community teaching is a major feature of poi, I'd like to add links to some of the popular learning forums (under External Links). If there are no objections, I will add links to the tutorial areas of Poi and Friends, Home of Poi, and Playpoi. Are there any other community-driven poi sites that would be worth listing for readers who want more information on poi?

Wordscratch, 3 August 2011 —Preceding undated comment added 03:22, 4 August 2011 (UTC).

Extra fire content moved to fire spinning
Following up on the last revisions, I added links to some of the most active community learning sites for modern poi. I also moved some fire safety and construction material to the fire dancing topic, since it was making this article unbalanced and overly focused on fire-related poi topics. (It was all good content, but seems better suited to an article focused on fire arts.)

Wordscratch, 13 September 2011

Etymology
Needs etymology of word poi. Gordon410 (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Poi equipment image
It would be good to include a clear image of poi (equipment). Current ones are useless, nothing can be seen on them. Setenzatsu (talk) 18:42, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I found this image of traditional Māori poi equipment and have added it to the article, along with some other images that may provide a bit more context and clarity for the section topics. AtticusX (talk) 22:28, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Lady Shaka
I would love to include Lady Shaka's use of poi at her Boiler Room set because I feel like it's an interesting example of modern usage, especially one with such a large international audience. Would a "Modern Performances" or similar section be appropriate? I'm surprised that there's no mention of Poi E or Te Matatini either, so those might also be good additions. Alternatively if this section is too sparse for inclusion, I could try and find a photo with the appropriate copyright for use? AtticEdit (talk) 03:50, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Poi (performance art)


text: User talk:68.9.116.157

title: User talk:68.9.116.157