text:
George Tierney

George Tierney PC (20 March 1761 – 25 January 1830) was an Irish Whig politician. For much of his career he was in opposition to the governments of William Pitt and Lord Liverpool. From 1818 to 1821 he was Leader of the Opposition in the House of Commons.

Background and education
Born in Gibraltar, Tierney was the son of Thomas Tierney, a wealthy Irish merchant of London, who was living in Gibraltar as prize agent. He was sent to Eton and Peterhouse, Cambridge, where he took the degree of Law in 1784. He was called to the bar from Lincoln's Inn in the same year, but abandoned law and plunged into politics. On 10 July 1789 he married Anna Maria Miller of Stapleton in Gloucestershire; she died in 1844.

Early career
Tierney contested Colchester in 1788, when both candidates received the same number of votes, but Tierney was declared elected. He was, however, defeated in the 1790 general election.

He returned to Parliament in 1796 for Southwark and sat for that seat until 1806, and then represented in turn Athlone (1806–1807), Bandon (1807–1812), Appleby (1812–1818), and Knaresborough (1818–1830). During his early years in Parliament he was known for his radical views and was a supporter of Charles James Fox. The French Revolution of 1789 was a polarising force in British Whig politics with some supporting the revolution, and others such as Edmund Burke strongly opposed to it. Because of his radical views, Tierney was often portrayed in caricatures in the costume of a French revolutionary.

Duel
When Charles James Fox seceded from the House of Commons, Tierney emerged as one of the most prominent opponents of William Pitt's foreign policy. In May 1798, Pitt accused him of want of patriotism. A duel ensued at Putney Heath on Sunday, 27 May 1798; but neither combatant was injured.

Office
In 1803, Tierney, partly because peace had been ratified with France at Amiens, and partly because Pitt was out of office, joined the ministry of Henry Addington as Treasurer of the Navy, and was created a Privy Councillor; but this alienated many of his supporters among the middle classes, and offended most of the influential Whigs. On the death of Fox in 1806 he joined William Grenville's Ministry of All the Talents as President of the Board of Control, with a seat in the cabinet, and thus brought himself once more into line with the Whigs. He left office the following year when Grenville's government fell and was replaced by the Tories, who were to dominate office for the next generation. Tierney was in opposition for the following twenty years.

Opposition
About a year after the death of George Ponsonby in 1817, Tierney reluctantly became the recognised leader of the opposition in the House of Commons. At first he was successful, with Whig gains being made at the 1818 general election. On 18 May 1819, Tierney moved a motion in the House of Commons for a committee on the state of the nation. This motion was defeated by 357 to 178, which was a division involving the largest number of MPs until the debates over the Reform bill in the early 1830s. Foord comments that "this defeat put an effective end to Tierney's leadership... Tierney did not disclaim the leadership until 23 Jan. 1821 ..., but he had ceased to exercise its functions since the great defeat".

Final years
In George Canning's ministry, he was Master of the Mint, and when Lord Goderich succeeded to the lead Tierney was admitted to the cabinet; but he was already suffering from ill-health and died suddenly at Savile Row, London.

title: George Tierney


text:
LMR 600 Gordon

Longmoor Military Railway number 600 Gordon is a preserved British steam locomotive. It was built during World War II to the War Department "Austerity" 2-10-0 design and was the last steam locomotive owned by the British Army. It had the same power output as the Austerity 2-8-0 but a lighter axle load, making it suitable for secondary lines. The middle driving wheels of the class have no flange, to ease turning on tighter tracks.

Service
Gordon was the second of 150 2-10-0 locomotives built for the War Department by the North British Locomotive Co. at its Hyde Park Works in Glasgow. The locomotive entered service in December 1943 as No. 3651, shortly afterward becoming No. 73651 when the instruction was given during 1944 to increase WD numbers by 70,000. Although most of the first batch of 100 saw service overseas, Gordon remained in the UK throughout the War.

After the War, the locomotive was used by the Royal Engineers on the Longmoor Military Railway in Hampshire, UK. It was renumbered 600 in 1952 and given the name Gordon in honour of the Royal Engineers' most famous General, Charles Gordon ("Gordon of Khartoum").

While at the LMR, Gordon was used both on general duties and for instructional use. During the Suez Crisis in 1956, it was reputed to have worked secret nightly trains carrying Government materials between Longmoor and Southampton Docks.

By the 1960s, Gordon was the last steam locomotive still in use at the LMR and had become a popular attraction at enthusiasts' specials, including working on BR metals between Woking and Liss on 30 April 1966.

Preservation
When the LMR closed in October 1969, Gordon was offered a home on the Severn Valley Railway, arriving there in 1972 and operating from 29 July of that year. In July 1975, it took part in the Stockton and Darlington 150 celebrations at Shildon, being steamed in the cavalcade. In May 1980, it took part in the Locomotive Parade at Rocket 150, the 150th Anniversary of the opening of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway at Rainhill. Gordon also served as Gordon the Big Engine from Thomas the Tank Engine & Friends as part of SVR's former Day Out with Thomas events.

Gordon was withdrawn from service in 1999 after a boiler tube blew. The engine was deemed not cost-effective to repair at that time. After being stored outside for many years, it was given a cosmetic repaint and was one of the first locomotives placed in The Engine House museum adjoining Highley in March 2008. On 25 July 2008, the locomotive was formally handed over by the Army to the Severn Valley Railway, who had been looking after it in a caretaker capacity. , it remains on display while awaiting an overhaul.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: LMR 600 Gordon


text:
Talk:Canadian Medical Association Journal

Top five journals
Is the Canadian Medical Association Journal really in the top five journal category? Its impact factor is 5.941, whereas the impact factor of Annals of Internal Medicine is 13.114. I would imagine that the Annals would be in the top 5, not CMAJ! Andrew73 21:40, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Perhaps this involves web statistics rather than impact factor. The Annals is not free (alas, because I like it). JFW | T@lk  00:06, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Good point about the web statistics, though I think the impact factor is probably a better reflection of the journal ranking. I'll take this up with  Nephron.  Andrew73 00:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The article says:
 * "[The CMAJ] is considered to be one of the top five general medical journals..." [emphasis added]
 * See the about CMAJ link. Annals of Internal Medicine isn't a general medical journal. It is a journal of internal medicine. Nephron 01:02, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Interestingly, if you go to the ISI Web of Knowledge, Journal Citation Reports, where the impact factors are calculated and the journals are ranked, the category is "medicine, general & internal," so general medical and internal medicine journals are actually lumped together! Andrew73 12:55, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Annals is internal medicine- which is the main body of general medicine. You guys are also all forgetting Nature Medicine (the general medicine sister journal of Nature), which has a much high impact factor than BMJ or JAMA. Thus, we should not say CMAJ is in the top 5. 71.243.38.143

 * Nature Medicine is a basic sciences journal (i.e. it is about "tomorrow's medicine"). Unlike the other journals mentioned above (BMJ, JAMA etc.), it is not a journal directed at clinicans (i.e. physicians that manage patients) for clinical management. Nephron  T|C 06:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Would the CMAJ not have been in the top five? I can not fathom how it could remain to be, having lost almost its entire long-term editorial staff; nor how it could remain to be, having practiced odious censorship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.157.112.20 (talk) 05:06, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Top six
The impact factor for CMAJ is 7.402, putting it behind the Archives of Internal Medicine at 8.016, which is ranked number 5. I'm pulling this information from a recent BMJ article that discusses impact factor,. I've made this change in the main article. Andrew73 20:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, but that BMJ article was about how people are taking Science Citation Index impact factors too seriously :) Are you comfortable with taking them out to 3 decimal places?

 * I've always heard of NEJM, JAMA, BMJ and Lancet were the "big four", and either Annals of Internal Medicine or CMAJ in fifth place. And that was before Hoey was fired. They may not be meeting that standard any more, sadly. I don't feel too strongly about this one way or the other, but I would lean towards a citation, rather than "It is considered". I was taught never to use passive voice. Nbauman 23:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

 * BTW, more important than citation analysis, I'd like to mention some good articles the CMAJ has published. Nbauman 23:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Broken Link
Hi, I found a broken link inside the reference, CMAJ Editorial Fellowship, since I'm not sure the exact link, can anybody correct it? Thanks! Jesslynn lee86 (talk) 07:20, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Canadian Medical Association Journal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060303001746/http://www.cbc.ca:80/story/science/national/2006/03/01/cmaj-editors060301.html to http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2006/03/01/cmaj-editors060301.html

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text:
Arthur K. Cebrowski

Vice Admiral (ret.) Arthur Karl Cebrowski (August 13, 1942 – November 12, 2005) was a United States Navy admiral. He also who served from October 2001 to January 2005 as Director of the Office of Force Transformation in the U.S. Department of Defense. In this position, he was responsible for serving as an advocate, focal point, and catalyst for the transformation of the United States military.

Early life and naval career
Cebrowski was born in Passaic, New Jersey to a Polish American family. He was a 1964 graduate of Villanova University, held a master's degree in computer systems management from the Naval Postgraduate School and attended the Naval War College.

He entered the navy through the Reserve Officers Training Corps in 1964.

Cebrowski was a naval aviator and commanded Fighter Squadron 41 (VF-41) and Carrier Air Wing 8. He commanded the assault ship USS Guam, the aircraft carrier USS Midway, and, as a Rear Admiral (Lower Half) in December 1993, Carrier Group 6, whose flagship was the USS America (CV-66).

He had combat experience in Vietnam and during Desert Storm. His joint assignments included service as the Director, Command, Control, Communications and Computers (J-6), Joint Staff.

In October 1993, after several weeks supporting United Nations peacekeeping efforts in Bosnia, orders came on four hours notice for Carrier Group Six, under Rear Admiral (lower half) Arthur Cebrowski, to move quickly. The group was to transit the Suez Canal and relieve USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) on Groundhog Station, 90 miles north of the equator in the Indian Ocean, supporting UNOSOM II in Somalia. The flagship USS America (CV-66) transited the Suez Canal on 29 October 1993. She was followed, on 1 November, by members of her battle group, USS Simpson (FFG-56) and the replenished oiler USS Savannah (AOR-4). The transit took America over 2,500 miles in a week. The turnover from Abraham Lincoln permitted the west-coast carrier to return to Alameda, California, thereby ending a scheduled six-month deployment on time. Upon arrival, Rear Adm. Cebrowski, as carrier group commander, took command of Naval Battle Force Somalia (CTF 156). The I Marine Expeditionary Force (I MEF)-led "Unified Task Force" had turned over control a few months before to UNOSOM II. There were Marine forces from I MEF (referred to as MARFOR Somalia) and Army forces from the 10th Mountain Division as well as Air Force and Navy; and personnel and units from other Member States of the United Nations. Other U.S. naval and Marine Corps forces included USS Simpson (FFG-56), USS New Orleans (LPH-11), USS Denver (LPD-9), USS Comstock (LSD-45), USS Cayuga (LST-1186), and the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit.

Admiral Cebrowski retired from the Navy on October 1, 2001, with over 37 years of service, after serving as the President of the Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island.

Office of Force Transformation
The Secretary of Defense called for the creation of the Office of Force Transformation in support of President George W. Bush's broad mandate to transform the nation's military capabilities. The transformation was intended to challenge the status quo with new concepts for American defense to ensure an overwhelming and continuing competitive advantage for America's military for decades to come. Cebrowski was appointed by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, effective October 29, 2001, reporting directly to the Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Defense.

As Director of Force Transformation, Admiral Cebrowski worked to link transformation to strategic functions, evaluated the transformation efforts of the military departments, and promoted synergy by recommending steps to integrate ongoing transformation activities. Among his primary responsibilities, Admiral Cebrowski monitored service and joint experimentation programs and made policy recommendations to the Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Defense.

Vice Admiral Cebrowski died on November 12, 2005, aged 63. He was buried in Arlington National Cemetery on January 9, 2006.

title: Arthur K. Cebrowski


text:
Talk:C. J. Muere

Started an article about CJ
I started my original work on CJ Muere/Temp --Jojit fb 02:20, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Temp page has replaced the main article. RedWolf 02:50, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:C. J. Muere


text: User:JonMoore/Salt Lake City infobox

title: User:JonMoore/Salt Lake City infobox


text:
Roulette (DC Comics)

Roulette (Veronica Sinclair) is a supervillainess in the DC Comics universe.

Publication history
Roulette first appeared in JSA Secret Files #2 (September 2001) and was created by Geoff Johns and Derec Aucoin.

Fictional character biography
Roulette's grandfather was a Golden Age villain of the same name, who ran a conventional casino and fought Terry Sloane. The current Roulette believes Terry Sloane to be her grandfather, but it is indicated that her grandfather was actually Terry’s brother Ned. Both Roulette and Ned have been added into Mr. Terrific's history, and do not appear in the original stories. Having encountered the second Mister Terrific during one of her schemes, she has come to view him as an unworthy successor to Sloane.

Her casino ("The House") is a superhuman gladiatorial arena, capturing heroes with teleporter technology similar to Holt's T-Spheres, and pitting them against each other, while various supervillains bet on the outcome.

In her debut, Roulette captured most of the current Justice Society of America and forced them to fight each other; Mr. Terrific and Doctor Mid-Nite were forced to play a chess game where the loser would be electrocuted. Sand and Hawkman had to reach Hawkgirl while infected with a fast-acting lethal virus (for which Kendra had a single dose of the cure) while Black Adam clashed with Atom Smasher.

However, all managed to escape their traps; Black Adam and Atom Smasher's fight lasted so long that the mind-controlling drugs used on them to heighten their hostility towards each other wore off, Sand remained in his earth form to slow the spread of the virus until Dr. Mid-Nite could find another cure, and Mr. Terrific and Dr. Mid-Nite managed to reach a draw in their chess game, destroying the board while the game reset itself. Roulette teleported them away before they could capture her.

A wall of fallen heroes was the only indication of the many heroes who had been killed in battle in "The House". The names include Firebrand, Impala, Maxi-Man, Ram of the New Guardians, Flyboy and the Hybrid (minus Pteradon).

Roulette and the House reappear in Formerly Known as The Justice League, in which she captures the Super Buddies. The subliminal programming which prevented heroes escaping fails to work on Fire because her native language is Portuguese, and she releases the others. When this is followed by Mary Marvel shorting out her aggressor chip due to extreme stress, Roulette decides they have won and orders them teleported away.

One Year Later, Dr. Mid-Nite had infiltrated her current fight club location in search of information regarding purported organ-napping. She agreed to give him information only if he beat her bodyguard in a game of arm wrestling. He did so, using his knowledge of nerves and their debilitation, and though she felt he had "cheated" she gave him the name of a model who had surgically implanted wings. After Dr. Mid-Nite left, she called the owner of the surgical clinic, who later proved to be Delores Winters, and told her of the hero's investigation into the implants and operations.

Roulette is later shown to have obtained Firebug's gauntlets where she is attempting to destroy the fabled Book of Destiny, until an alien villain with a probability-based weapon steals it from her. It transpires she had been dating the thief of the book, and that she had read the book. This took a serious blow to her sanity, as she saw too much of the future to withstand the information.

Roulette later has a game going with Amos Fortune. They each play with cards that represent the JLA and the Royal Flush Gang. In turn, they each bet that one can beat the other, respectively. Eventually though, it is revealed that Roulette was merely gathering data on the JLA, Fortune, and his Gang. She is shown to be working (perhaps against her will) under the Key and his as-yet-unknown master.

Powers and abilities
Roulette has no apparent superhuman abilities, but is a genius when calculating odds and gambling winnings. Roulette has robot security dogs (designed like the guard dogs of Apokolips) automated security devices, a series of death traps and at least one metahuman on staff who can negate super-powers.

The pins she uses to tie her hair up in a bun also double as daggers for close combat.

In other media

 * Roulette appears in Justice League Unlimited, voiced by Virginia Madsen. Introduced in the episode "The Cat and the Canary", this version runs an underground fight club called "Meta-Brawl" that highlights distrust towards metahumans and includes participants such as Wildcat, Sportsmaster, Bloodsport, Electrocutioner, Atomic Skull, Hellgrammite, Gork, Tracer, and Evil Star. However, she faces opposition from Green Arrow and Black Canary. In the episode "Grudge Match", Roulette reworks Meta-Brawl into "Glamour Slam" due to declining profits and utilizes Lex Luthor's Secret Society, Sonar, and mind control technology to brainwash several female Justice Leaguers, such as Vixen, Fire, Shayera Hol, Wonder Woman, and Black Canary. However, Huntress frees Black Canary and joins forces with her to free the other Leaguers and dismantle Roulette's operation before seeing her arrested by the authorities.
 * Victoria Sinclair / Roulette appears in Smallville, portrayed by Steph Song. This version is a mercenary and actress with a reputation for always completing her contracts. In her self-titled episode, she is hired by Chloe Sullivan to put Oliver Queen through a series of challenges to convince him to re-embrace his secret identity as the Green Arrow. As of the episode "Prophecy", Roulette has joined Toyman's organization Marionette Ventures.
 * Roulette appears in the second season of Supergirl, portrayed by Dichen Lachman. Introduced in the episode "Survivors", this version is a wealthy socialite who secretly makes money holding illegal alien fight clubs, in which she forces the alien participants, such as her best fighter M'gann M'orzz, to fight for their freedom. Roulette continues to operate undetected until a series of violent alien-on-alien acts involving innocents draws the attention of Supergirl, Alex Danvers, Maggie Sawyer, and the Martian Manhunter, with Supergirl and Manhunter convincing the fighters to live better lives and end their involvement with Roulette, who vows revenge after her fight clubs are shut down. As of the episode "Supergirl Lives", Roulette has moved to the planet Maaldoria and established a human slave trade until Supergirl and Mon-El learn of her operation and instigate a revolution among the slaves before the Department of Extranormal Operations (DEO) trap Roulette and the slavers on Maaldoria.

title: Roulette (DC Comics)


text: User talk:68.60.168.138

title: User talk:68.60.168.138


text:
Another Night (song)

"Another Night" is a song by German Eurodance and pop music project Real McCoy (also known as M.C. Sar & The Real McCoy). The single is featured on their hit album Another Night (1995), which was the American release of the project's second album, Space Invaders. The song was written and produced in Germany by Juergen Wind (J. Wind) and Frank Hassas (Quickmix) in 1993 under the producer team name Freshline. It was released in Europe on 12 July 1993 by Hansa Records and two music videos were produced, directed by Nigel Dick (US version) and Angel Garcia (European version).

Initially a sleeper hit in Germany in 1993, it would go on to reach the top three in the United Kingdom and United States in late 1994. It also peaked at number one in Australia, Scotland, and Zimbabwe, as well as on the Canadian and US dance charts. In 2008, "Another Night" was ranked at number 91 in Billboard Magazine's Top 100 Songs of the First 50 Years of the Hot 100. Ten years later, commemorating the 60th anniversary of the Hot 100, "Another Night" ranked at position 117.

Background and release
"Another Night" was originally released in Europe in the Summer of 1993 through Hansa Records (BMG Berlin). At first the single was only a minor hit in Europe. It had peaked at No.18 in Germany but had barely managed to make the Top 100 in other countries in Europe. Thanks to the promotional efforts of BMG Canada, the single suddenly reached No.1 on the Canadian charts in the Spring of 1994. The success of the single in Canada caught the attention of Arista Records CEO Clive Davis who at the time had become interested in bringing another European music project to the US market after becoming successful with the Swedish pop group Ace of Base. Once a new deal was finalized between Arista and BMG, the project name was shortened to Real McCoy and an all new release of the single was quickly planned for Summer 1994. Thanks to the promotional efforts of Arista in 1994, "Another Night" quickly reached No.3 on the US charts and remained on the US chart for over 45 weeks. It was also certified Platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America. The single also achieved Platinum sales in Australia and Silver status in the United Kingdom.

Composition, vocals and lyrics
While singer Patricia "Patsy" Petersen stars in the music videos for the single, the actual vocals on the track were recorded with studio singer Karin Kasar. German rapper Olaf Jeglitza (O-Jay) wrote and performed the rap vocals on the single. "Another Night" was originally inspired by Roni Griffith's 1981 song "Desire", the Coca-Cola theme tune and Captain Hollywood Project's 1992 song "More and More." The song lyrics tell the story of a woman who longs to be with the anonymous individual she encounters every night in her dreams. The rap vocals represent the man's voice in the woman's head, saying the things she wants to hear and promising to fulfill her desires and cover her with his love. However, each dawn brings pain to the vocalist, as she realizes "when the night is gone, I'll be alone."

Chart performance
"Another Night" debuted on the US Billboard Hot 100 at number 77 on the week ending 27 August 1994. On the week ending 12 November 1994, the single reached its peak position of number three. The song also brought the group the distinction of having the longest run at number three, or any place that is not number one on the Billboard Hot 100 (11 non-consecutive weeks). It stayed on the chart for 45 weeks. By the end of 1994, the single had sold approximately 700,000 copies in the US according to Nielsen Soundscan.

In Europe, "Another Night" was a number-one hit in Scotland (1 week), and entered the top 10 in Belgium (4), Denmark (10), Finland (3), Ireland (6), Norway (6), and the United Kingdom, as well as on the Eurochart Hot 100, where it peaked at number ten on 26 November 1994. It debuted on the chart at number 87 on 2 October 1993, after charting in Germany and Switzerland. On the European Dance Radio Chart, it peaked at number five the same week. In the United Kingdom, it reached number two in its fourth week at the UK Singles Chart, on 13 November 1994. It was held off the top spot by Pato Banton's "Baby Come Back" and stayed within the UK Top 100 for a total of nineteen weeks. Additionally, "Another Night" was a top 20 hit in France (20), Germany (18), Iceland (13) and the Netherlands (13). In Australia and Zimbabwe, it peaked at number-one for six and two weeks, as well as on the Canadian RPM Dance/Urban chart and the US Billboard Dance Club Songs chart. "Another Night" earned a gold record in New Zealand (5,000), a silver record in the UK (200,000), and a platinum record in both Australia (70,000) and the US (1,000,000).

In 2017, to mark the 25th anniversary of the Mainstream Top 40/Pop Songs chart, Billboard magazine released a list of the 100 best-performing pop airplay songs since the chart's beginning in 1992. "Another Night" topped the list.

Critical reception
Upon the release, Larry Flick from Billboard described the song as a "instantly infectious and jaunty li'l rave/NRG jumper that may initially remind some of "What Is Love" by Haddaway. A close spin, however, reveals a frothy confection that stands on its own pop merits. Nicely contrasted male/female duet vocals kick lovely, as do peppy remixes [...]. Already wooing folks aboard, single has the strength to keep the glow of summer parties lingering for a long time to come." David Browne from Entertainment Weekly said it is "a swooshing glop of diva-on-a-downer voice, Eurotrash synths, and rapping." Dave Sholin from the Gavin Report wrote that "those of you into catchy, high-energy, pop creations from groups like the Captain Hollywood Project or Culture Beat will love this track." Rachel Cohen from The Heights named it the best dance track of the album, along with "Run Away". She described it as "fast-paced and energetic". noting that it has "a distinct beat and sound". Howard Cohen from Herald-Journal called it an "infectious tune, bubbling with strobe-like keyboards and melody".

Dennis Hunt from Los Angeles Times felt it is "awfully catchy". In his weekly UK chart commentary, James Masterton said, "It stands out in many ways owing to the strange billing the act has." Alan Jones from Music Week gave the song five out of five, declaring it "a fiendish continental creation that's laid siege to Europe and is climbing the US Top 10." He added further, "A hugely commercial pop/dance confection with the usual male rap verse/female sung chorus combination that has proved so popular. File next to Whigfield." Wendi Cermak from The Network Forty viewed it as a "great dance record". The magazine also compared it to "Rhythm Is a Dancer" by Snap!. Stephen Yang from The Rice Thresher noted the "sugary catchy beats and glitzy synthesizers". James Hamilton from the Record Mirror Dance Update described it as an "ultra cheesy German galloper, with 'put your hands up in the air' rather than the title as its hook line" and a "deadly catchy chugging German pop lurcher". Milo Miles from Salon Magazine felt that the song "incorporate swank Philly-soul melodies in the manner of M People."

Retrospective response
Retrospectively, Bradley Torreano from AllMusic wrote that the song "is the biggest thing they have ever done; with its charming hooks, instantly recognizable keyboard part, and infectious rhythm, it might be one of the best dance songs to emerge out of the techno-pop explosion." Stopera and Galindo from BuzzFeed remarked that "this song is everything great about '90s dance songs combined into one song. So good." They ranked it number four in their list of "The 101 Greatest Dance Songs Of the '90s" in 2017. David Balls from Digital Spy named it "some of the finest Eurodance of the 1990s." Robbie Daw from Idolator described "Another Night" as a "marriage of memorable pop choruses sung by a charismatic female and gruff rhymes delivered by a tough-guy rapper, all laid over a thumping beat." In 2018, Stacker ranked it number-one in their list of "Best Pop Songs of the Last 25 Years", noting "Another Night" as "the #1 pop song of the modern era." In 2023, Billboard ranked it number 484 in their list of "Best Pop Songs of All Time", saying, "'Another Night' is essentially the midpoint between two other still-sparkling ’90s radio mix show fixtures: The dancefloor propaganda of Snap!'s 'Rhythm Is a Dancer' and the romantic delirium of Amber's 'This Is Your Night'."

Music video
Two music videos were filmed for the single's release. In the US version for the single, Jeglitza is Real McCoy, the disc jockey of a pirate radio station powered by four men with handcycle-mounted generators. Petersen (lip-syncing Karin Kasar's vocals) is driving around town on her moped, mounting posters promoting McCoy's radio broadcasts while listening to the broadcast on a boombox. She is attracted to McCoy's voice and image, but has apparently never met him. As McCoy leaves his hidden studio after another night's broadcast, he walks by Petersen on her moped; recognizing him, she turns for a quick moment, and then rides on. This version was directed by British director Nigel Dick and filmed in London. Renee Graham of Boston Globe rated this version two and a half stars, saying that the band would become "consigned to cut-out bins." The video was later made available on YouTube in 2009 and had generated more than 155 million views as of April 2024.

The European music video was directed by Angel Garcia, featuring two alien robot characters: one male and one female. They communicate with each other via videophone, their conversation intercut with dance sequences from black-and-white movies of the 1920s and 1930s, as well as color snippets of Jeglitza and Petersen performing the lyrics to the song. The robots are also able to view each other directly, the male with a binocular headset and the female with a telescope. As the song progresses, the stiff movements of the robots become more fluid and dance-like. At the end of the video, the two robots meet, dance, and walk away together, arm in arm.

title: Another Night (song)


text:
User:Sticksoft

Hi, I'm Sticksoft, also known as :---stick---:, or offline as Stick.

I've only started using Wikipedia recently, so I've not got round to setting this page up properly yet... bear with me.

Some quick info: I am male, aged 18 years old, and a student. I have lived in the UK all my life and, though I am a native English speaker, speak some French and know some words of German, Greek and Hebrew. I like Tricking, Gymnastics, Computer Games programming, coffee, and Amiga games.

I have programmed in BASIC, AMOS, AmiGUI, Blitz BASIC, Java, DIV/DIV2, C programming language, C++, DarkBASIC...

I can do a Handstand, Front Handspring, Cartwheel,  One-handed Cartwheel, Wallrun, Au Batido, and more...

You can visit my out-of-date website here: http://www.sticksoft.co.uk

title: User:Sticksoft


text:
Beyond the Poseidon Adventure

Beyond the Poseidon Adventure is a 1979 American disaster film and a sequel to The Poseidon Adventure (1972) directed by Irwin Allen and starring Michael Caine and Sally Field. It was a critical and commercial failure, and was the only Allen disaster film to receive no Academy Award nominations. Its box office receipts were only 20% of its estimated $10 million budget.

Plot
The capsized luxury liner S.S. Poseidon is still afloat after six survivors have been rescued by the French Coast Guard. Tugboat captain Mike Turner spots the rescue helicopter and finds the shipwreck. Accompanied by second mate Wilbur and passenger Celeste Whitman, he heads out to claim salvage rights, as the tugboat Jenny lost her cargo in the same tsunami that capsized the Poseidon.

They are soon followed by Dr. Stefan Svevo and his crew, who claim to be Greek Orthodox medics who received the ship's SOS. They board the vessel through the bottom hull opening by the French rescue team, they soon come across the fires still raging in the engine room, the red valve wheel (which Reverend Scott grabbed to shut down the steam) and they also see the body of Linda Rogo, who fell to her death in The Poseidon Adventure. Suddenly there is an explosion deep inside Poseidon, Wilbur tells Mike Turner the ship is a floating time bomb, however Turner is determined to carry on, the group with Turner soon encounters some more survivors, the ship's nurse, Gina Rowe and two passengers, elegantly dressed Suzanne Constantine and war veteran Frank Mazzetti, who is searching for his missing daughter Theresa. Theresa is found, as are elevator operator Larry Simpson and a "billionaire" called "Tex" who clings to a valuable bottle of wine. They also find the blind Harold Meredith and his wife Hannah, who were waiting to be rescued.

Water continues to submerge decks, and more explosions occur. Turner's group find the purser's office, where Svevo decides he and his men will search for other survivors, parting ways with the rest. Another explosion causes the safe in the purser's office to fall and open, revealing gold coins, diamonds and cash. Turner and Wilbur gather the coins.

Unknown to Turner and the survivors, Suzanne is actually working with Svevo. She takes a list containing information about a cargo of crates from the office. Going off on her own, she gives Svevo the document but decides to rejoin Turner's group. Svevo orders Doyle, one of his men, to kill Suzanne. After being shot, a dying Suzanne strikes Doyle with an axe, killing him. While making their way up through the decks, Turner and the others find Suzanne's corpse and realize a murderer is on board.

Hannah dislocates her shoulder while helping her husband. Svevo and his men are found gathering a cargo of plutonium. Svevo reveals that his real intention for boarding the Poseidon was to retrieve his lost shipment of plutonium, adding that he cannot let Turner and his group go now. However, before anyone is killed, another explosion occurs, allowing Turner's group to escape.

Turner, Mazzetti and Simpson find guns. In the ensuing shoot-out, Mazzetti and Castrop, another of Svevo's men, are killed. Water floods the room as Turner's group proceeds up to the next deck. An injured Hannah, unable to climb a ladder, falls into the rising water and drowns. While trying to rescue her, Turner loses all of his salvaged gold. Svevo and his one remaining gunman head back up to the ship's stern, where the rest of Svevo's team attempt to use a crane to raise the plutonium up to the hull, which is slowly sinking.

In another section of the ship, Turner and the survivors exit the ship through an underwater side door, but due to shortage of scuba tanks, Wilbur sacrifices himself by swimming underwater and disappearing. Turner and Celeste swim to the tugboat and move it closer to the Poseidon as the remaining survivors swim towards it. Svevo's men see them and open fire. Tex, who in reality was not a wealthy passenger but a sommelier (part of the Poseidon's crew), holds onto his wine bottle as he is gunned down and perishes. The rest of Turner's group makes it to the tugboat and sail away. Water continues to flood the Poseidon, causing the boilers and then the plutonium cargo to erupt, exploding the ship's hull and sinking it stern first. As it sinks, Svevo and his men are killed.

En route, Turner accepts that his tugboat will be taken from him when they get to port, but Celeste reveals a diamond she salvaged from the Poseidon. The two kiss, and the tugboat sails away into the sunset, bringing the total survivors of the disaster to ten.

Salvage team

 * Michael Caine as Captain Mike Turner
 * Karl Malden as Wilbur Hubbard
 * Sally Field as Celeste Whitman

Greek medical rescue team

 * Telly Savalas as Dr. Stefan Svevo
 * Paul Picerni as Kurt
 * Patrick Culliton as Doyle
 * Dean Raphael Ferrandini as Castorp

Poseidon passengers

 * Peter Boyle as Frank Mazzetti
 * Angela Cartwright as Theresa Mazzetti
 * Jack Warden as Harold Meredith
 * Shirley Knight as Hannah Meredith
 * Veronica Hamel as Suzanne Constantine

Poseidon crew

 * Shirley Jones as Nurse Gina Rowe
 * Slim Pickens as Dewey "Tex" Hopkins
 * Mark Harmon as Elevator Operator Larry Simpson

Production
In 1973, soon after the first film came out, producer Irwin Allen proposed a sequel that would have had the survivors testifying in a hearing on the disaster in Austria, the country of the Poseidon's parent company. While on a train to the hearing, a miles-long mountain tunnel would collapse, leaving the survivors of the train trapped inside, struggling to make their way out. The film was planned to be released at Christmas 1974 from 20th Century Fox. Most of the main cast was initially intended to reprise their roles from the first film. This premise was eventually used in the Rob Cohen film Daylight (1996) with Sylvester Stallone.

Originally planned with the first film's distributor 20th Century Fox, the film ended up moving to Warner Bros. Pictures after they signed a three picture deal with Allen in 1975.

Relationship of Gallico's novels to the films
Paul Gallico's novel The Poseidon Adventure had ended with the ship's sinking. The original film changed much of the novel's plot and ended with the ship still afloat. After the huge success of the film, Gallico was asked to write a novel that would be a sequel not to his first novel, but to the film. It would feature a new group of people entering the still capsized ship and could be made into a second film. In response, Gallico started writing Beyond the Poseidon Adventure, but he died on July 15, 1976, before completing the book. The book was published on January 1, 1978. Once again the film that followed ended up bearing little resemblance to his book. Instead of sinking, the ship explodes, along with Svevo and his men.

Filming
Filming started in September 1978 at Burbank Studios with location shooting off the California coast and Catalina Island. For the year prior, the ship interior set was designed and built, based on the RMS Queen Mary.

Reception
On Rotten Tomatoes the film has an approval rating of 0% based on reviews from 8 critics, with an average rating of 3.50/10. On Metacritic the film has a weighted average score of 22 out of 100, based on 6 critics, indicating "generally unfavorable reviews".

Roger Ebert gave the film one star out of four. Janet Maslin of The New York Times wrote that Irwin Allen "is so obviously ill-equipped to stage action scenes in cramped quarters that his audience winds up wishing as fervently as his characters for a chance to see the light of day". Variety wrote that the film "comes off as a virtual remake of the 1972 original, without that film's mounting suspense and excitement". Gene Siskel gave the film one star out of four and slammed it as "virtually the same story as the original disaster film", with "shoddily painted sets; tiny studio-created fires all of the same size; and dialog that could be written by a 1st-grader". Kevin Thomas of the Los Angeles Times called the film "an instance of too little too late. The sequel is painstakingly crafted and pleasant to watch but seems routine and even tedious at times, mainly because there has been so much razzle-dazzle on the screen since the S.S. Poseidon capsized—including, of course, Allen's own Towering Inferno". Clyde Jeavons of The Monthly Film Bulletin wrote that the film "is not so much a sequel as a remake, and a fairly dismal, cut-price one at that, its shoddiness being risibly exemplified from the start by the almost Python-esque studio-tank storm which assails Michael Caine's see-sawing salvage tug".

Home media
A region one DVD version was released on August 22, 2006. A digital version is available for rental and purchase on the PlayStation Network for the PlayStation 3, and it is also up for purchase and rental on the iTunes Store. Warner Home Video re-released the DVD via their Warner Archive Collection on June 23, 2014. On September 12, 2023, Shout! Factory re-released Beyond the Poseidon Adventure on Blu-Ray, as part of the Irwin Allen: Master of Disaster Collection which additionally included the original extended cut which aired on television.

title: Beyond the Poseidon Adventure


text:
A Pain That I'm Used To

"A Pain That I'm Used To" is a song by English electronic music band Depeche Mode. It is the opening track on their eleventh studio album, Playing the Angel (2005). It was released as the album's second single on 12 December 2005 through Mute Records.

Background
The single contains remixes by UK Mute label mates Goldfrapp, and Jacques Lu Cont (Stuart Price). There are also two radio versions. The first one is only a slight remix, whereas the second contains a completely different, more electronic introduction and instrumentation.

Although "Better Days" was mentioned to be the B-side for the single in its press release, it ended up being a track called "Newborn" when the track lists were released. "Better Days" went on to be the B-side to the following single, "Suffer Well". "Newborn" is a slow song that transforms into a harder song during the chorus. It is a fan-favourite in terms of B-sides.

The single was only physically released in the UK. The US only had a digital release (i.e., iTunes). The song reached number 15 upon UK release. In the US, the song debuted at number 45 on the Hot Dance Music/Club Play chart on 14 January 2006. It eventually reached number 6.

The track is one of the few Depeche Mode songs to feature a real bass, which is played by Andy Fletcher.

Track listing
7-inch: Picture disc / Bong36 (EU)
 * 1) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Goldfrapp remix) – 4:39
 * 2) "Newborn" (Foster remix by Kettel) – 5:26

12-inch: Mute / 12Bong36 (EU)
 * 1) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Jacques Lu Cont remix) – 7:51
 * 2) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Jacques Lu Cont dub) – 8:00

12-inch: Mute / L12Bong36 (EU)
 * 1) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Bitstream Threshold mix) – 6:07
 * 2) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Bitstream Spansule mix) – 7:21

CD: Mute / CDBong36 (EU)
 * 1) "A Pain That I'm Used To" – 4:11
 * 2) "Newborn" – 5:34

CD: Mute / LCDBong36 (EU)
 * 1) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Jacques Lu Cont remix) – 7:51
 * 2) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Jacques Lu Cont dub) – 8:00
 * 3) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Goldfrapp remix) – 4:39
 * 4) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Bitstream Spansule mix) – 7:22
 * 5) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Telex remix) – 3:28

DVD: Mute / DVDBong36 (EU)
 * 1) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (video) – 3:49
 * 2) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (exclusive behind the scenes footage) – 3:52
 * 3) "Newborn" (Foster remix by Kettel) – 5:26

Digital downloads
 * 1) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Telex club mix) – 5:49
 * 2) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Telex remix 2) – 3:26
 * 3) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Bitstream Spansule mix edit) – 4:15
 * 4) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Bitstream Threshold mix edit) – 4:04
 * 5) "A Pain That I'm Used To" (Jacques Lu Cont remix edit) – 4:47

title: A Pain That I'm Used To


text: User talk:216.70.249.10

title: User talk:216.70.249.10


text:
User talk:Mgreenbe/Archive

Hookah
Hey man, good edit on the hookah page. some of the wording in the part about the illegal drugs was bothering me. hopefully we can find a source. how is israel right now? I would love to come visit sometime. do jewish people smoke hookah much? I pretty much have the same feelings as you about wikipedia—so fun, informative and interesting but in need of a lot of work. I am really hoping to become a much bigger part....as soon as I finish my finals haha. take care.NPPyzixBlan 19:04, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Falafel
You think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict doesn't extend to falafel? I envy you your optimism ;)

Welcome to Wikipedia, in any case! Palmiro | Talk 21:44, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Glad to be here!

 * I think I'm batting for the wrong team, as the best falafel I've ever had came from East Jerusalem. Uh oh, don't tell my relatives! --Mgreenbe 00:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

My vote goes for Aleppo, with a second preference for Mezze Jebel (a suburb of Damascus). Unfortunately I don't have any experience of Israeli falafel. Nice one on fixing up the article. Palmiro | Talk 18:20, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Good work on Italy and the added ME stuff. The pastries you describe sound a lot like burekas, which is an Eastern European word (I think).  We need a good, pan-ME word for them, but none of the Arabic words ring a Hebrew bell.  Maybe I'll just start using them, and see what the locals think.  Your description of the food makes me want to go to Syria: time to get a new passport, I guess. --16:27, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, the infamous passport two-step. Syria's fruit in particular is amazing, in the summer piles of apricots, then cherries (for a dollar a kilo!) plums, peaches, nectarines, something weird that looks like a squashed appple and tastes like a peach, figs, grapes, and all fresh. For some reason, only the poorer areas seem to have good fruit and vegetable markets though. When I was living in Muhajirin, a middle-class area in the north of Damascus, there was nothing there, then I moved to Shaghour, quite a popular area, and there was a fabulous fruit market there (just outside the old Jewish quarter, actually). Mind you, eating in restaurants can be a bit less exciting for those not used to it, because while the food is good pretty much every restaurant has exactly the same menu (the main differences often being in the imaginative English, my favourites so far are "plack oliver" and "Unnatural juice").
 * As for the pastries, I think Turkish "börek" is something similar to the filled ones, but I can't even think of a common Arabic word for all the different kinds (well actually, "mu`ajjanat" is used, meaning roughly "things made with dough", but it's not very colloquial and could also apply to other things).
 * Am I right in thinking that kvass is sold from tankers, or is that something from ancient Soviet history? If it's true, it's probably worth a mention. Palmiro | Talk 16:49, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Do you mean tanker (ship) or tank truck? The former would be impressive, but not beyond the Russian imagination.  A sort of Battleship Potemkin drinking game?  :) I've seen the latter in Russia, but only as big as an oil drum on a cart; had a nozzle at the back and some paper cups.  Dirt cheap: about 25 cents (8-10 rubles) a (300ml?) drink.  My grandmother told me that in Soviet Russia (50s and 60s), there was a water fountain near the kvass with a single glass cup, to be washed after each use!

 * The drink is also sold from blin stands, at shawarma places, and in bottles all over. So I'm not sure of how to mention it...I'll add "sold out of tanks or barrels". --Mgreenbe 17:23, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Ah, I've never been in Russia, and had imagined tank trucks like the ones used for home heating oil... though the ship is an even more striking image! In Syria, there are drinking fountains everywhere - providing them is considered a meritorious act in Islam, which makes a lot of sense given the climate - and very often there's one metal cup chained to it, which everybody uses (without washing it). Palmiro | Talk 17:52, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

An atheist huh? Guess you still had enough religion to go to another man's country and take it as yours. posted 10:50, 5 November 2005 by 207.255.174.254

 * I don't think you'll be going to Nablus any time soon, unfortunately (although that said, if you really wanted to, you almost certainly could, reasonably safely, but while it might be very informative it wouldn't be a pleasure trip). It's one place that has really suffered. Palmiro | Talk 19:19, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I've heard about some of the problems; mostly the internal strife, as that's what gets play on the news at home and in Israel. I thought it would be possible until I read the article -- must you really go in by foot?  Even if there's a bus stop on either side, that's outrageous.  I'll have to look for knafeh in the Nablus style if nothing else.  Or, pending a visit from a more knowledgable/Arabic-speaking friend from the states, actually go.  Either way, I'll take a picture and put it up on the page. :) --Mgreenbe 21:45, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, if you really are thinking about going, you should arrange, or at least discuss, it in advance with some local group or well-organised body used to dealing with this sort of thing, as there are a couple of issues to be taken into account. For one thing, Isra eli citizens are forbidden from travelling into Area A - that's the areas theoretically under the fullest level of Palestinian control, and includes all the major West Bank cities except Hebron. If you are an American citizen, no problem with your passport. For another, if you are a resident where you are, people there could be suspicious of your motives. An organisation like the Alternative Tourism Group could advise you and possible fit you on an arranged visit, so they might be worth checking out whatever you might feel about their politics and activities in general. Palmiro | Talk 13:36, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think either of those are a problem (not an Israeli citizen, not worried about suspicion). Thanks for the tip on ATG!  I try to avoid going on tours, but this might be a good exception. --14:49, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

The eXile
Hi there

thanks for your comments, but to be honest I am not in the slightest interested in getting involved in another bad-tempered dispute and will probably withdraw from the English-language Wikipedia entirely once I have done some work on one article I have made a start on and that urgently needs further attention. Good luck with it, and I hope you keep your patience! Palmiro | Talk 11:01, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I completely understand; the whole affair is seriously reducing my respect for Wikipedia and its processes. Shame though, it looks like we'll be losing a good editor.  --Mgreenbe 11:07, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, I was actually thinking of folllowing my withdrawal from here with putting more effort into ga.wikipedia.org, so it's as much a redeployment as a tactical retreat ;) Palmiro | Talk 14:31, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Shawarma proposed merge
You might wish to comment on this at Talk:Shawarma. Basically I agree that shawarma, doner kebab and gyros should be merged but all three are substantial articles, so I'm hoping someone else will do the work! Palmiro | Talk 10:18, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I marked myself down as agreeing with you, barely resisting the urge to say "not it!". But it's a slippery slope: what next, merging hummus and peanut butter? --Mgreenbe 17:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

A special funny posture while walking
Are you acquainted with the work of Monty Python's Flying Circus? It looks like here we have an Antichrist for Funny Walks.

Anyway, a lot of his edits look like the problem is with the English and the lack of cited sources rather than the content - in some cases it seems to come down to him giving a Sunni POV on articles that were suffering from severe Shia POV. Not sure what the best way to deal with it is, as I am no expert in theology. I might ask someone else. Palmiro | Talk 14:47, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Partly true, but look at one of his edits to Mahdi:
 * The Barbarians increase in building high.
 * Birds will throw brim stones from the sky that destroys buildings and leave tents intact.
 * A huge storm of metal locusts crosses the desert. Their tails throw out brim stones.
 * People could see and talk to each other even if they are on two ends of the earth in a wink of time.
 * While it betrays a modicum of bad faith on my part, this seems like a hoax. This can't be the widely held belief, and I have difficulty believing that a hadith (is that the right word?) predicts "a huge storm of metal locusts" with "tails throw[ing] out brim stones".  --Mgreenbe 15:05, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * While it betrays a modicum of bad faith on my part, this seems like a hoax. This can't be the widely held belief, and I have difficulty believing that a hadith (is that the right word?) predicts "a huge storm of metal locusts" with "tails throw[ing] out brim stones".  --Mgreenbe 15:05, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

peer review
You damn humanist athiest!... Hey could you help with the Peer Review of my article on Rapping? Thanks! --Urthogie 12:58, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Dreams
Would you mind if I archived the page there? Go crazy. It's long past the point of diminishing returns (the old expression about wrestling with pigs comes to mind), and leaving the thread just gives him a place to post more nonsense: insulting me is one thing I don't much care about, but insulting my intelligence is quite another and pretty much guaranteed to tick me off.

As it says at the top of my Talk Page, I'm not big on the dishonest, incompetent, and fanatical: combining at least two out of three definitely gets my dander up. --Calton | Talk 15:13, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Update: I've taken the liberty of creating an archive of all but the very last set of comments. I admit I didn't take the bother of pulling together all of the anon's stuff scattered hither and yon on the page nor did I try to work out which unsigned posting was done by which IP number or at what time. Life's too short.

Also, I finally looked at your User Page and I noticed a falafel reference. In that spirit, here's a movie tangentially about falafel (or as the Australians insist on spelling it, felafel) -->

(Yes, it's real: that's a scan of my copy of the DVD, which I had to send away to Australia for.) --Calton | Talk 04:05, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Some articles that could use your knowledge
Your egyptology experience could be helpful at Controversy over race of Ancient Egyptians.--Urthogie 21:33, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Lorenzo Gabanizza
Hey Mgreenbe, thanks for the message. I'm afraid I don't have any sources for information on this person -- I just tagged the article as part of clearing a previous copyright violation. Thanks! --Nick Boalch?!? 23:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

your vote
Could you please give your opinion and vote at Talk:Islamist_terrorism. Islamic terrorism is the more common phrase, and the current counterpart articles are christian terrorism and jewish terrorism.--Urthogie 18:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Islamist is considered a synonym for Islamic by oxford, webster, and chambers dictionaries, and only american heritage gives a seperate definition for it. So it doesn't make sense to call something an Islamist organization.--Urthogie 19:41, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * We would make the content appropriate to it. Thats exactly why we're trying to change the name, so edit wars dont occur over such content(page name is used as a silent consensus, I've found).  In addition, I think that you'll find that newer oxford, chambers, and websters dictionaries do identify Islamism as synonymous(but thats somewhat besides my above point).  Thx, --Urthogie 20:10, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Specifically, this part of the discussion explains how the title makes content editing erroneous and difficult: --Urthogie 20:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Regardless, I'm gonna start putting my weight behind Modulatum's idea, as its the most pragmatic at this point.--Urthogie 20:20, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It seems like we're starting to develop a consensus for Modulatum(ivan's) idea. I usually avoid political shit as you can see from my to do list but this article name just seemed like complete crap, because Islamic terrorism actually redirects to it-- the editors held that it was always Islamist in nature.  Yeah, most of my work is on hip-hop articles, especially on Rapping.  Anything you want me to check out or collaborate on, by the way?--Urthogie 22:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

2 Kings 1:8
I do think this article could be really expanded. There is no discussion of the meaning and symbolism of Elijah's garb, a topic which has been much discussed. For all of these verses there is quite a bit to say about translation issues. - SimonP 20:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Anchor Bible is a good, but somewhat introductory source. There are a number of different verse by verse analyses, and I have found that the best option is to consult a number of them as they all have somewhat different opinions and interpretations. For translation issues I only really find them interesting when different translations lead to very different interpretations of a verse, or when the translation itself gives insight into the thinking of the translator. However I'm more interested in theological and historical issues, than language ones. To a Hebrew scholar, however, a belt versus girdle debate might be fascinating. - SimonP 21:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is much of a precedent, and certainly no policy. I've been working away on some of the verses in the Gospel of Matthew, so something like Matthew 3:4 could be considered a precedent. However, a number of people do not like these articles, considering them as overly obscure. - SimonP 22:11, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Lollipop offer
Many thanks for your offer. Your virtual lollipop is much appreciated. I am thinking about an article on Mr Whippy vans after other Australian editors comments. Regards--A Y  Arktos 11:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry - I didn't express myself well - a virtual lollipop is very much appreciated and will suffice :-) Thank you. --A  Y  Arktos 11:26, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understood the tone of your "What about them indeed?" comment. I can't work out if you were criticising me for my suggestion of Mr Whippy vans or not. Cnwb 22:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I skipped over the unnecessary discussion and jumped in to add some info on sausage sizzles to the Street food article. Now about that lollipop... 8) Garglebutt / (talk) 00:11, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Encapsulation issue.
Thanks for your recent edit regarding my note to both the information hiding and separation of concerns articles. I only asked because I just created the interface inheritance stub, and I wanted to make sure that the information I submitted was accurate. Could you please review the stub and let me know what you think? I would really appreciate that. Cheers. Folajimi(talk)

 * Thank you for the timely response! It is greatly appreciated.
 * My intent is to have the stub be as flexible as possible, so I am glad that the stub was even coherent. It's really nice to know that you could broaden the concept of the stub. However, is the content also applicable to C++? Folajimi(talk)

Request for references on interface inheritance
Hi! Am I glad that you left information in interface inheritance on your talk page; I was trying to remember who helped clarify the stub (even though your last reply was posted more than a year ago!) The "What links here" was very helpful in this regard.

A pair of fact challenges have been made against the stub; do you know of any good reference material to address the challenges?

Also, in your previous reply, you had mentioned the need for concrete examples; do you know of any reputable sources for such information? --Cheers, Folajimi (leave a note) 13:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:RM
I was under the impression that you were to merge Oneiromancy and Dream interpretation? — Nightstallion (?) 09:25, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Re;Dhimmi
Привет! An interesting thing I noticed about Wikipedia is that it helps develop thick skin and not be easily intimidated even if you feel someone is trying to abuse you; I usually just say and do what I feel is appropriate. I have noticed you speak basic Russian. Did you learn it in college?--Pecher 12:59, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I may write something on the term "dhimmitude" sometime later, but that's indeed just a term, although quite useful.--Pecher 13:11, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * My nick also resembles the name of a posh district in downtown Kiev, which derives its name from the Ukrainian "печера" (pechEra, not palatalized as opposed to Russian), meaning "cave".
 * It's interesting that you too call all Russian-speaking Israeli Jews "Russians"; actually, those who hail from Russia are a minority, as about a half of olim come from Ukraine and many are from Belarus, Moldova, Latvia, or whatever. Probably, some Russians think you have ancestors from this part of the world when they first learn you speak some Russian.--Pecher 13:51, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

LSU and corndogs
I don't know exactly where it came from but it's been going around among LSU opponents for a while now seemingly born from an email or chatroom post claiming LSU fans smell like corndogs. Google 'LSU corndog' and you'll probably find it. I find it pretty stupid and hate that some Auburn fans use it or may have even originated it. AU Tiger ʃ talk /work 23:38, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Brown professional schools ref
Took your advice and added brief paragraph to Brown entry. Thanks. GO WHARTON 17:54, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I'll give your new paragraph mod suggestion a go. Mighty fray of Brunonia, as in the plant? I'd prefer to avoid any sort of tussle in which there's the possibility (however remote) of the involvement of one Martha Stewart. GO WHARTON 18:31, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to WikiProject CS
Hi! Just wanted to welcome you to WikiProject Computer science. Having seen the contributions you've made so far, I was wondering when you'd officially join :-) Anyway, glad to have you onboard! Looking forward to collaborating with you in the future. --Allan McInnes (talk) 20:09, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

feel free
Anything like that gives me a break from getting mad about the rash of bigotry currently breaking out in a number of areas (and I'm talking about Wikipedia, not Denmark). Have you read my current favourite? Eurabia:_The_Euro-Arab_Axis. As I remarked to someone else, it's just as well I live in Syria, because if I lived in Europe, I'd be in danger of becoming a dhimmi due to the evil conspiracies being plotted by our governments, who apparently have nothing better to do than work out how to enslave themselves and their citizens... And somebody has now rewritten an entire article on a related matter taking the author of this piece of fantasy as his/her main source... Right, I better shut up about this, coz I'm just getting mad again. Palmiro | Talk 14:17, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome
Thanks for the warm welcome, and yes, I've been a bit addicted to RC Patrol recently (what was it, fourteen hours straight yesterday?). Anyway, in honor of your gratitude, I was inspired to sit down and write the Pork (instant messenger) stub, which would have never been done since I would still be on RC patrol. Coincidentally, I just had a pork dinner last night; it was fantastic. Anyway, thanks again, and happy Sunday! ~ PseudoSudo 18:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks and hello
Thanks for your welcome and helpful links. Very new to this. Did you notice (or know) that we both hail from Ithaca? Lived there all my life, and was born there in '88. I lived with a jewish family all last year, ate falafels constantly, and we were all naturally liberal (its Ithaca!- what else could i be?). In my book Gimme Coffee is the place to be. Again, thanks for the welcome. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hellycopper (talk • contribs) 04:34, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

February 2005 [sic]
Thanks for catching my inane mistakes! I'm living in the past. Nice cleanup on Yorkshire pudding, too. Why not make an account and stay a while? --Mgreenbe 13:22, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Not a problem (I still catch myself writing 2005 quite often. I actually do have an account (with well over 10,000 edits, actually ;)), but I'm on a public computer at the moment and prefer not to log in using it. -- 128.197.249.61 13:30, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Compiler Feb 2006
I take your point about links being important. However, some of the meterial was too detailed to be appearing in the open paragraphs (eg, .exe and .com). Some of the other material was just plain wrong (or very product specific). For instance, I have been in the compiler/tranlator/static analysis business for 26 years and have never heard of a transpiler (it seems to be a trademark of this company www.sector7.com/OPENVMS%20MIGRATION/VX%20Tools) or a cascader.

The object code stuff is covered later on and is just too much information at this point.

What a weird way to communicate (derekATknosofDTcoDTuk)

Discussion Request from Gold Cross 12 Feb 2006
Mr/Ms greenbe Pleased to have discussion with you about 666_numerlogy "First Interpretation" which reflects my opinion after lot of studies for many years now (same as other participations including yours). I respect other people with different opinions and even opposed participations with fully open mind, also I know that "wikipedia" is an open environment which can hold all opinions from all people without any hostility or bad feelings among them and from that point of view I would like to know your objection(s) on my participation and who give you the right to clean it? I hope your answers to be objective keeping in mind that no one can ever monopolize the whole truth alone.
 * Mister, thanks. :)
 * Wikipedia is not the place for your opinion; there is a ban on original research. My request is for citation of a reliable source giving the numerological argument you would like to include.  Part of my objection is that Wikipedia is also not a collection of random trivia — this is why I am in favor of removing much of section 6 "Culture and psychology", perhaps creating a separate article Number of the Beast in popular culture.  Thanks for understanding (cross posted on your talkpage to make it easier for you). --Mgreenbe 21:38, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Hookah Origin
Point taken. My source is, but honestly I am not sure if it is sufficiently authorative...Bertilvidet 14:59, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Coleslaw seeds
Was it not an obvious piss-take? The idea of the "traditional Irish doner kebab" struck me as so ludicrous I couldn't let it pass. (I seem to like that word too much, ludicrous. Though maybe that's just the effect of Wikipedia.) Palmiro | Talk 17:54, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Had I checked my facts, I would have been able to get around your query by explaining that the chilis had probably been introduced by Saint Brendan the Navigator. Unfortunately, I had some idea in my head that he had gone to America (insofar as he went to America) in the tenth century. It's so easy to be wise after the event... Palmiro | Talk 18:38, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Hah! Palmiro | Talk 23:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

your two cents
On Articles for deletion/Futuristic Sex Robotz? Thanks--Urthogie 12:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Egyptians
Heh, it looks like I reverted your edit because you sort of squeezed in there right at the last minute. ;) --Khoikhoi 21:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Image:Hediedwithafelafelinhishhand.JPG
Hello, Mgreenbe. An automated process has found and removed an image or media file tagged as nonfree media, and thus is being used under fair use that was in your userspace. The image (Image:Hediedwithafelafelinhishhand.JPG) was found at the following location: User talk:Mgreenbe. This image or media was attempted to be removed per criterion number 9 of our non-free content policy. The image or media was replaced with Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg, so your formatting of your userpage should be fine. Please find a free image or    media to replace it with, and or remove the image from your userspace. User:Gnome (Bot)-talk 07:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mgreenbe/Archive


text:
Talk:Maoism/Archive 1

'''DO NOT EDIT OR POST REPLIES TO THIS PAGE. THIS PAGE IS AN ARCHIVE.'''

This archive page covers approximately the dates between March 29, 2002 - October 13, 2005.

Post replies to the main talk page, copying or summarizing the section you are replying to if necessary.

Please add new archivals to Talk:Maoism/Archive2. (See How to archive a talk page.) Thank you.  Sasquatch  t|c 21:44, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Something very odd about this article In the tiny section about Cambodia, it said Pol Pot and his Khmer Rough were described as "Maoist". How can that be accurate when Pol Pot hated the Vietnamese and Chinese? In his reign, he was known to have rounded up and killed tens of thousands of Vietnamese and Chinese who lived in Cambodia. I just feel that section of the article is too contradictory.--Secret Agent Man 01:51, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This isn't true

 * A significant feature of Maoism relative to other forms of communism is that it tolerates significant corruption unless and until this proves to be contrary to "the people's will" - as assessed by a powerful leader as in Stalinism.

Now one could argue that Maoism generates a great deal of corruption, but that's different from ideologically tolerating it.
 * It would be more true to say that Chinese society accepts that corruption is an inevitable side effect of authority - that is, that those in power are able to steal, and will steal, from those they rule. This is however very much to be preferred to clandestine stealing, by parties one never sees, and also much to be preferred to open theft and slaughter by simply taking stuff in the old fashioned ways.  At least, if a mandarin steals from you, you can shame him.  This is not possible for a thief in the night, or a conqueror.

--

This also isn't true (or at least it needs to be NPOV'ized).

 * These seem to ignore the degree of respect for traditional Chinese social norms that Mao relied upon during his rise - suggesting that Maoism as such may be a doctrine specific to China and its Confucian ancestor cult.
 * Mao's mother was a Buddhist. This makes it more credible that he would simply 'exploit' the Confucian beliefs, and also more credible that he didn't respect traditional norms, since Mao was very openly anti-Buddhist, and did what he could to destroy Tibetan Buddhism.

Most Chinese people (and in fact most Chinese Maoists) don't think Mao had much respect for traditional Chinese social norms. Chinese Maoists consider this a good thing.

Now I have read some Western authors argue that Maoism had deep traditional Chinese roots, but this point of view (along with the view that a lot of people think that this notion is ridiculous) needs to presented in a NPOV manner.
 * yup. And the difference between Confucian, Buddhist and Daoist ideas of 'traditional Chinese' also needs to be explained.  Probably with a link to Three Vinegar Tasters or something.

-

Needs to be rewritten to conform to NPOV.

 * As the only version of communism to have successfully laid the educational and infrastructural foundations of a modern industrial capitalist economy, Maoism is of more current interest than other 20th-century branches of communism.

There is a significant body of opinion (including the official ideology of the PRC) that argues that first part of the sentence is not correct.
 * infrastructural yes, educational no, there's a split on this issue.

- Also, it would be nice to identify specifically the scholars who think the opinions in the last paragraph
 * if the views are so controversial that they require attribution, and if they can't be attributed to a whole school of scholars (too many to list), they probably shouldn't be here. Also many consider it out of line to ask for attribution on opinions that are widely held by any group of people, as it allows for ad hominem attack on the scholars quoted, who may or may not really be representative of those accepting the argument.

Could we have an explanation of where, in doctrinal terms, Maoism differs from Marxism-Leninism? I've read the page and I still don't know what it actually is. For example - "in contrast to Leninism, Maoism holds that..." Mswake 12:33 Aug 31, 2002 (PDT)
 * Mao's mass line theory. Constant indoctrinication in writing via Little Red Book.  Returning urban professionals to peasant farming (taken to extremes by Pol Pot.  Trying to decentralize industrial activities to the villages, as in the infamous 'iron casting exercise'.

Removed this. Name the scholars....

 * Some Western scholars argue that China's rapid industrialization and relatively quick recovery from the brutal period of civil wars 1911-1949 was a positive impact of Maoism, and contrast its development specifically to that of Southeast Asia, Russia and India. One argument is that Mao's strong personality and doctrine served the same purpose as American executive and military leadership, and the Marshall Plan, in Europe - an extremely simple theory of the origin of modern continental trading blocs: NAFTA, EU, and China itself.
 * this should go back. It is so widely held an opinion that it requires no attribution.  The fact is, obviously, the military control of the entire subcontinent of China did aid in rapid development, as did the military control of the entire subcontinent of Western Europe under the USA and Britain.  There are however other theories of the origin of the trading blocs, back to Orwell etc.

_________________________________________________________

This entry would be much better with bullets on the tenents of Maoism. It had aims, and goals and methods. It had success and failure. It produced disaster, catastrophy and crimes against humanity on scales almost  unimaginable. Just imagining one billion poeple is all most unimaginable. ;-|
 * Yup, most everything about China is unimaginable to us barbarians. ;-)

How could something like the Cultural Revolution happen ? The answer is Maoism. Two16 21:54 Jan 12, 2003 (UTC)
 * Yup, most everything about China is unjustifiable to us barbarians.

-- There is a lot of asking for sources and scholars here. This is probably not the right question. The real question is, what are the counter-arguments to the controversial points of view that are presented? -- Mswake noted that one could read the page and still not know what Maoism "is". Using bullets one could list the tenants of Maoism and provide explanation of  what Maoiam "is". Compare and contrast is fine. But a positive definition is better.( That means a definition which which answers the question "What is Maoim? ) Its skeleton might look like this:

""Tenents of Maoism"" Maoist believed

 * point
 * point
 * point

This wouldn't require much research. I shall do it. I couldn't trust myself to write  definitive bullets off the top of my head. :-(

If I read harsh on Mao, its probably to compensate for the awe I have at his accomplishments. In fact I like him, but I 'm never going to apologize for his actions.

I would really like to have Mao over for tea with Buckminster Fuller, Thomas Paine, and Thomas Jefferson. We would drink out Lamsang Souchong out of tin camp mugs. Stomping Tom Conners would play and  he'd write songs about us.

Two16 - This article is very basic. Colipon 18:42, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC) -

Tried to explain the current governments attitude toward Maoism. Essentially, the idea is that China has "outgrown" Maoism. Also the idea that Maoism was an excuse for Mao to gain power is not a very strong idea among Chinese historians. There are some Chinese historians who think this, but they seem to be in the minority. Roadrunner

Raodrunner I don't have any problem with the edits you have made, but I think it is naive to say what some or most Chinese historians think, if you are referring to historians resident in the PRC. Chinese historians are not free to say what they think. Any Chinese historian who said that Mao was a cruel, debauched, treacherous old megalomaniac (which he was) would at the very least lose their post, and might well be sent off for some re-education. Adam 07:54, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Actually you are incorrect here. The idea that Mao in his later years was a cruel, debauched, treacherous old megalomaniac is consistent with the official PRC history of Mao.  Within the official ideology the fact that Mao abused his powers in his later years is taken as a warning against the cult of personality and for the importance of maintain the rule of institutions of the Communist Party.

 * The reason why it is important to say what historians within the PRC think is that most people in the West really don't have a clear idea of what people in China really do think. The idea that Mao invented Maoism to justify his personal power is not common.  The idea that Mao used (or rather misused) Maoism to justify his personal power is part of the official history, and is in fact used to justify the rule of the Communist Party.

 * Similiarly, I wouldn't say that Maoism is in practice irrelevant.

Roadrunner 18:26, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

________

Mao's roots in Chinese thought came from anti-Confucian thinkers like Mo Tzu and the Legalists, who were already out of the mainstream by the Han period. He wrote a poem presenting an admiring view of the emperor Shih Huang Ti, who backed the Legalists and conducted the burning of the books. Perhaps a precedent for the cultural revolution?

I don't think Roadrunner quite grasps the point that the PRC is a communist dictatorship, and that neither historians nor anyone else are free to say what they think.

 * It's an authoritarian dictatorship, but its not particularly communist. There are limits as to what can be written, but these are somewhat broad.  There really are no limits as to what can be said in private conversations, and people will tend to tell you what they think if you ask nicely.    You'll generally find a huge range in what people in China think about Mao.  Also you can usually tell that you are not getting the "party line" because people will say that they hate aspect X about the Communist Party, they like aspect Y, and they are ambivalent about Z.

I of course have no objection to quoting Chinese historians, provided it is made clear that what they write cannot be equated with what western historians (a term which includes Chinese historians living in the west) write in a climate of intellectual freedom.

 * The problem is here is because the West has more intellectual freedom doesn't make what a Chinese historian has to say necessarily more invalid. Sure Chinese historians are under political constraints that Western historians aren't, but at the same time a Chinese historian is "closer to the action" and has some knowledge and perspectives that most Western historians just don't have.  In many cases, this outweighs (and in some cases far outweighs) the political constraints.

 * Actually, my own impression is that the main problem with Chinese historians is that they are so used to thinking in a Marxist framework, that even anti-Communist Chinese historians in the West have a difficult time thinking outside of a Marxist framework of history. At the same time, the intellectual blind spots that Chinese historians have aren't more serious than the ones that Western historians of China have.  They are just different.

 * One thing that you do find in talking with most Chinese who have lived for a long period in the West is that they find the faith that Westerners have in their political systems to be rather naive. There is a wonderful quote "the difference between Chinese and Americans is that the Chinese know that their government is lying to them."  Roadrunner 00:29, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Having said that, I don't have any problems with Roadrunner's edits. Adam 23:55, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Roadrunner's points are all fair enough. I should have said that "China is a capitalist dictatorship run by people who call themselves communists." I certainly agree that Marxist thought-categories can be just as inhibiting to historical writing as fear of the state. Adam 00:39, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Just as a stark example. A Maoist in Cambridge, Massachusetts would have little problem publishing a history that said that the Gang of Four were wonderful people, that the Cultural Revolution was also a wonderful worker's paradise in which no one died except for evil capitalists, and that Deng Xiaoping was a horrible person that ruined China.  Such a book would almost certainly be banned in China.

 * This doesn't mean that the points in the book are correct, that someone who believed that the points in the book were incorrect didn't really believe it, and that someone in China who argued that the book was nonsense was just parroting official ideology. One could point out that despite the political constraints involved, that someone who lived through the Cultural Revolution would at least have some useful information that might even be more "valid" than someone who spent that period in Cambridge.

Roadrunner 01:24, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

How is "Maoist groups outside China have usually called themselves "Marxist-Leninist" rather than Maoist" not a duplicate of "These parties usually rejected the term Maoism, preferring to call themselves Marxist-Leninists", especially when the latter is in a paragraph starting with "Outside China ..." and we've already established that the term "Mao Zedong Thought" is used within China?

But hey, if you want to keep extra verbiage in your article and make it less useful to readers, no biggie.

Shouldn't there be some mention of the Maoist International Movement in the article? There is already a link to their website.

 * It's a very small group, maybe too small to warrant a mention in a general article on Maoism. Would certainly qualify for an article of its own, though, and inclusion on a list of communist or Maoist parties. My understanding is that it diverges from more conventional Maoist groups like the RCP on certain points. An explanation of these views might make it worth noting in this article, as an example of hostility and ideological opposition between Maoist parties. Everyking 21:55, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * You seem to have an axe to grind against the Maoist Internationalist Movement, which you labelled "a petty cult" and moved to a position of less "prominence" (second on a list of two, against the standard practice of using alphabetical order to avoid the impression of favouritism). Care to explain why you have singled out this party for attention among the ten or so that are mentioned in the article?

 * If they are unconventional or divergent, that should be explained (not merely stated) in an appropriate article, either this one or (better yet) an article on the group itself. But your changes smell strongly of POV. Please find a more neutral approach. Shorne 16:40, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * We conventionally order ext. links based on importance and usefulness to the reader. Not only is MIM a very small group, it holds unusual views that don't reflect mainstream Maoism (and there was a note that its views are unconventional, until you removed it). I would be all in favor of a brief mention of MIM's positions in the article, for the reasons I outlined in my earlier response above; I would also love to see an article specifically on Maoism in the U.S., and an individual article on the group would be just fine, too. However, it makes sense to me that Maoist groups that are actually engaging in armed warfare, and therefore make international headlines, should be placed most prominently in the external links list, followed by groups like RCP that do have some degree of actual influence in the radical left in their respective countries, and finally by a group like MIM, which I maintain is indeed essentially a petty cult. I think this logic should also apply within the body text of the article as well, which is why I moved the mention of MIM after the RCP. Everyking 17:37, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I removed the comment about unconventional views for reasons of NPOV. It said something like "This group is NOT representative" and no reason was given. I still do not believe that it is appropriate to single out one group for this treatment. Even if it is true that MIM's views are unconventional within contemporary Maoism, the complete lack of discussion of their positions anywhere on Wikipedia makes the note about unconventional views inappropriate. It amounts to dismissing them as fringe kooks and leaving it at that.

 * As for whether MIM is small or petty, I have not found any information on the subject. Their Web site indicates a fundamental disagreement with the RCP, which they evidently consider non-Maoist. Labelling one party unconventional but not the other smacks of bias, especially in light of the ideological dispute.

 * You still haven't said what is unconventional about MIM. If you wish to pursue this tack, I suggest either writing an article on MIM, in which you can compare their positions to those of the mainstream, or adding a section to this article (something like "Contemporary Western Maoism") for a fair discussion of the major rifts among those calling themselves Maoists. In any case, I consider it inappropriate to make judgements on Wikipedia. Provide factual information and appropriate references. Readers can decide for themselves. Shorne 20:14, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Quit telling me to do everything; you're an editor just as much as I am. Certainly I wasn't making a judgement in the article, except that I noted that they are unusual on some points, and I moved the position in which they were mentioned a little bit below that of another party because it is less notable, which is a fair and objective judgement to make. Who would disagree with me on the first point? They say that it is rape to have sex under capitalism; women must be spelled "wimmin", "person" as "persyn" and "human" as "humyn"; white workers in the first world can't actually be a revolutionary class because they are living off the exploitation of the third world, and so they are actually exploiters themselves (this has been argued to be racism); and so on, I'm probably forgetting some stuff. So it seems to me that a note about their views being regarded as unconventional is only fair. Everyking 20:58, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Whether or not those views are unconventional, they do not appear to clash with Maoism. I have reworked one paragraph to include a sample of a doctrinal dispute between MIM and the RCP, to the best of my ability. I wasn't able to determine the RCP's beef with MIM, as only one article on the RCP's Web site (according to the search engine) even mentions MIM, and it doesn't go into specifics. MIM, on the other hand, openly calls the RCP Trotskyite (thus non-Maoist) and extensively presents its side of the dispute.

 * Instead, I mentioned the two groups' positions on white workers, which seem to provide a good example of a fundamental rift between two Western parties that call themselves Maoist. If the information is inaccurate, please correct it. I have done my best with the literature that I could find.

 * I have also categorised the links, for the convenience of readers, and restored alphabetical order. Unless you can show that your judgement about the relative size or pettiness of various parties is "fair and objective", I cannot accept any allocation of "prominence" to any particular party. Shorne 22:10, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Maoism, MLM and MLMTT
Maoism, Marxism-Leninism-Maoism and Marxism-Leninism-Mao Tse-Tung Thought are different concepts, and should not be confused. The article needs a rewrite.--Soman 13:15, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I rewrote it somewhat. I added some information that people wanted about the main precepts of Maoism, although not in the form of a bulleted list. I also supplied more background information in general and aimed for a more neutral tone.

 * I left that last paragraph alone, not really knowing what to do with it. Anyone else care to have a go? It certainly seems bizarre to claim that Maoism is the only communist ideology to have laid the groundwork for capitalism. All twentieth-century socialist governments culminated in a restoration of capitalism. And Maoism certainly would not consider that a glorious outcome, so it's rather hard to see what the author of that sentence intended.

 * I also don't understand what distinction Soman has in mind between Maoism and Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. The two seem to be equivalent. As for Marxism-Leninism–Mao Zedong Thought, I think that the article discusses this distinction adequately, though of course more could always be said. Shorne 03:24, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Good changes
Deleting that last paragraph was a good idea. I also like the new section "Maoist Military Strategy". Thanks to those who made these changes. Shorne 06:22, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

As with Khmer Rouge, Shorne's attempts to wreck this article will be resisted. Adam 02:31, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I am not attempting to wreck anything. Your accusation is outrageous. Shorne 02:39, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Censorship by Mr Adam Carr
User:Adam Carr has been persistently reverting entire batches of changes in spiteful response to some alleged "whitewashing" by me of the page Khmer Rouge. Readers are invited to consult the talk page for Khmer Rouge to see this person's wretched behaviour. In addition, Mr Carr promised on User talk:Shorne to revert future changes by me to this and many other articles. Readers are welcome to judge for themselves his sense of fair play and integrity.

In the meantime, I have had to call for this article to be protected from Mr Carr's stubborn attempts to suppress anything—rather, anyone—that he happens not to like. Shorne 06:44, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * The only real difference I see in the edits is the assortment of some external links and a mention of MIM ideology. I don't feel very strongly about either version, and I'm not sure why Adam objects so strongly to Shorne's version. It worries me that the reverts may be based on Adam's dislike of Shorne and isn't taking into account the merits of individual edits. Everyking 12:24, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Anyone with any integrity would give a valid reason for reverting edits. Carr's reversion seems to be based wholly on spite, as with his similar interference with the article Khmer Rouge, which culminated in the protection of that article.

 * The changes to Maoism were worked out over a period of days and represent a reasonable compromise. I am glad to discuss particular changes with anyone and consider other possibilities, but I cannot accept personal grudges as a basis for the wholesale destruction and censorship of text. Shorne 19:25, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

An Addition on Maoism in China
I added the following to the paragraph about nostalgia for the Mao era, because I thought it was important to have an illustrative example of exactly what people were talking about. Additionally, I added a link towards the bottom with the full text of the mentioned leaflet and analysis thereof. I've never made a big Wiki edit, soooo... I hope this is OK?

"On December 24, 2004, four Chinese protesters were sentenced to prison terms for distributing leaflets entitled "Mao Forever Our Leader" at a gathering in Zhengzhou honoring Mao Zedong on the anniversary of his death. Attacking the current leadership as "imperialist revisionists", the leaflets called on lower-level cadre to "change (The Party's) current line and to revert to the socialist road." The Zhengzhou incident is one of the first manifestations of public nostalgia for the Mao era to make it to the international press, although it is far from clear whether these feelings are isolated or widespread."

The New Zealand Red Flag group has been defunt for a very long time now, thus has been removed. The Communist Party of Aotearoa is the present representive of Maoism in New Zealand, but are so small that they don't warrant being mentioned.

Your edits will be much more acceptable if you become a registered User and sign your edits. Adam 09:40, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Removed link to the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan. They are not Maoist, though often called Maoist by those opposed to them. I know many of these women of RAWA personally, and thus am not speculating.

title: Talk:Maoism/Archive 1