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Ellen Sauerbrey

Ellen Richmond Sauerbrey (born September 9, 1937) is an American politician from Maryland and the former head of the United States Department of State's Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration. She was nominated to the Bureau in September 2005 by President George W. Bush. On January 4, 2006, Bush placed her in office by way of a recess appointment, bypassing the need for Senate confirmation. Her confirmation was unlikely, given strong objections by some senators. Sauerbrey's recess appointment caused some controversy; however, her experience as minority leader in the Maryland House of Delegates and managing a complex U.S. Census project helped rally others to her cause.

Life and career
Sauerbrey was born in Baltimore, Maryland, the only child of Ethel, a secretary/stenographer, and Edgar Richmond, a steelworker for Bethlehem Steel at Sparrows Point. She is a 1955 graduate of Towson High School and a 1959 graduate of Western Maryland College, and was a teacher before entering politics. In 1959, she married Wilmer J.E. Sauerbrey, who is credited with having introduced her to conservative politics.

From 1978 to 1994, she was a Republican member of the Maryland House of Delegates, and served as minority leader from 1986 to 1994. Her committee assignments included the Appropriations Committee; Subcommittee on Education and Transportation; Ways and Means and Economic Matters.

In 1990, she was elected as the national chairman of the American Legislative Exchange Council, serving in 1991 when President George H. W. Bush spoke to the organization.

Sauerbrey ran unsuccessfully for Governor of Maryland twice, in 1994 and 1998. She was defeated by Democrat Parris Glendening both times, the first time by a very narrow margin. The 1994 election was in doubt as charges of voter fraud led to a lawsuit by the Sauerbrey campaign to overturn the election, which was ultimately unsuccessful.

In 2002, George W. Bush nominated Sauerbrey to be Representative to the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women, of the Economic and Social Council of the United Nations, with the rank of Ambassador. In that post, Sauerbrey focused mostly on three issues: the need for more education for women, the importance of empowering women economically and politically, and protection of the right to life.

In January 2006, while the Senate was recessed, President Bush appointed Sauerbrey as Assistant Secretary of State for Population, Refugees, and Migration. It was reported then that this and other such appointments would end at the conclusion of the congressional session in January 2007.

In a January 15, 2007, hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Democratic lawmakers and advocates for refugees called for increased help for fleeing Iraqis. Sauerbrey said a UN-predicted wave of refugees did not occur right after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and was instead occurring at that present time.

Sauerbrey was inducted into the Maryland Women's Hall of Fame in 2013 and has written opinion articles published by The Washington Times as recently as 2017.

In November 2020, amid attempts to overturn the U.S. presidential election, Sauerbrey expressed no regrets about challenging her 1994 election outcome, saying, "I think when you have a pretty good indication that the election is rigged, you should fight". Sauerbrey also questioned the transparency, accuracy, and timeliness involved with counting mail-in ballots.

title: Ellen Sauerbrey


text:
Talk:ISU-122

I would like to merge ISU-122 with ISU-152. The latter is more of an upgrade to the former then an entirely new vehicle. Oberiko 15:44, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Discussion is at Talk:ISU-152. —Michael Z. 2005-10-19 18:02 Z

"Jagdpanzer" is a generic term
For any german tank destroyer. This line: "with rare exception (only JagdPanzers, JagdTiger, and Elefant were strong enough to resist the BR-471" is vague and inaccurate.

I assume it probably was meant to mean "JagdPanther" or perhaps Jagdpanzer IV, but since I'm not sure, I won't change it. Whoever did the original insertion should clarify/correct. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SenorBeef (talk • contribs) 19:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

The Jagpanzer IV could NOT resist a direct hit and doubt the Jagdpanther could, altough I have to look into that.
 * Firing tables of A-19 122mm gun state that armour piercing capability was 155 mm at 500 m under meeat angle 30 degrees with normal direction to the armour plane. German tests state some lesser value of 128 mm under the same conditions but this is probably due to ammunition and measurement methodics differences - Germans had not advanced APCBC projectile BR-471B (they had only standard AP BR-471) and in 1945 when it made first appearance on the battlefield, Germans had no time for writing scrupulous report about captured materiel. But it was quite enough to defeat glasis plate of Jagdpanzer IV and JagdPanther. the link to the Soviet armour penetration tests report (unfortunately in Russian). This report clearly states that front armour of Panther (with approx. same thickness and slope as JagdPanther) was punched by BR-471B at distance 2500 m with significant power to punch at much more distance. In Soviet test only full front projection of Ferdinand/Elefant and JagdTiger superstructure (not hull) was immune to A-19 fire. LostArtilleryman 06:42, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Poor anti-armour performance?
"the gun had poor armor performance" Hmmm really? Penetrating (according to battlefield.ru) 100mm at a 30 degree slope at 2 km. AKA outclassing pretty much every German gun except the monstrous ones (i.e. pak 43 etc.) Lack of sub-caliber/shaped charge rounds is a non sequitur as 1.) Zaloga says that there was a shaped charge shell for the gun and 2.) German stocks of sub-caliber were pretty minimal by the implementation of the ISU-122/ISU-152/IS-2 etc. Thus I have edited the offending section. The Sanctuary Sparrow 07:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Yuri hasn't left the building
Can somebody translate "Istrebitelnaja Samokhodnaya Ustanovka 122"? (I'm guessing fighting vehicle, 122mm gun.)  TREKphiler   hit me ♠  15:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Istrebleniye means ‘destruction’ or ‘extermination’, and istrebitel’ is a fighter aircraft or naval destroyer. In this context istrebitelnaya (feminine adjective) is sometimes translated ‘destroyer’.  Samokhodnaya = ‘self-propelled’, and ustanovka = ‘mount’ or ‘emplacement’ (referring to an artillery piece with its carriage).

 * The best conventional English synonyms are tank destroyer and self-propelled antitank gun. —Michael Z. 2008-09-16 18:10 z

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:ISU-122


text:
Talk:ISU-152

Proposed merge with ISU-122
I would like to merge ISU-122 with ISU-152. The latter is more of an upgrade to the former then an entirely new vehicle. Oberiko 15:44, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The ISU-152 was introduced first in November 1943 under plant designation "Object 241". ISU-122 was developed in December 1943 as "Object 242". The changes were only connected with replacement of primary gun from 152.4-mm ML-20S to 121.92-mm A-19S. In mass production ISU-152 was launched immediately after testing, in November 1943, but series ISU-122 were produced only in April 1944. The producing of ISU-122 has a very simple cause - there were not enough tubes of ML-20S gun-howitzer for equipping newly built hulls. But Soviet arsenals had a big stocks of A-19 cannons. So after very minor upgrade to A-19S variant they were installed in incomplete hulls of ISU vehicles.

 * Alright, but my point is still valid. It's basically the same vehicle with a different gun.  For most  other articles we lump those together (the various types of Shermans etc.) Oberiko 10:27, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Sherman Firefly has its own article ... since it has a different main gun.--Senor Freebie (talk) 15:15, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Agreed partially. These vehicles shared the same chassis, hull but differs in historical aspects, armament and combat use (although Soviet instructions for crew did make any difference between them). So the technical data, history and tactics description is better to divide into separate page for each type of the ISU vehicle.

 * Merging sounds reasonable to me, too. The article at ISU-122 is very measly right now, and a lot of material here applies to it.  In the long run, it's probably more efficient to mention the few differences in one article, rather than duplicate the commonalities in both.

 * The gun carriage and recoil were identical, only the barrel and ammunition storage differed between these vehicles, although the 122 had a minor variant with a different gun produced later. According to Zaloga, "There was no tactical distinction between the ISU-122 or ISU-152.  Both types were kept concurrently in production simply because of the availability of 122mm tubes and ammunition, even though the ISU-152 was preferred for most assault roles because of its larger, high-explosive rounds.  The better anti-tank performance and longer range of the ISU-122 were seldom taken advantage of because of the type of tactics used by these units."  Zaloga & Grandsen, Soviet Tanks and Combat Vehicles of World War Two, 1984, page 179.  These vehicles are covered in a single section in his book.  —Michael Z. 2005-10-18 16:38 Z

 * Additionally, we can always add headings which are specific about each vehicle to discuss the differences between them. What exactly does ISU stand for anyway? Oberiko 16:50, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Since there's some support, I've added the merge tags. —Michael Z. 2005-10-19 18:04 Z

 * Since LostArtilleryman has done some good work there, ISU-122 now looks more like a stand-alone article, or at least a very substantial section for this one. —Michael Z. 2005-10-22 20:35 Z

 * Even if the 152 is just an upgrade of the 122 it doesn't mean they should be in the same article, for example there are different articles for the Panzerjager 1 and the Panzer 1 even though the they are the same except for a bigger gun on the jager. You would have to merge dozens or even hundreds of articles if you follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion.  I think we should leave the articles seperate, if you have a problem with the ISU-122 article you can add to it. [unsigned by User:Julian Diamond]

 * This is a matter of judgement, and it's up for discussion here. I'm not ruling that this MUST be done.

 * I proposed this because 1) the ISU-122 article was a tiny stub (which has changed since then). 2) The material at ISU-152 mostly applied to that vehicle.  These are essentially the same vehicle with a different calibre gun barrel (not even the whole gun); they were employed by the same types of units with the same tactics and probably the only reason they had different names is because they needed different ammunition.

 * And you should be able to find better examples to support your argument than the Panzerjäger I self-propelled anti-tank gun, which is not an "upgrade" of the Panzer I light tank: it is a vehicle built for a different role, used by different units with different tactics. No one is proposing merging ISU-122 with IS-2 because they share the same drive train and suspension.  —Michael Z. 2005-11-3 17:32 Z

 * I would vote for merging them; the vehicles had very similar designs *and* tactical roles. An analogy would be the suggested merging of the SU-85 and SU-100 pages. DMorpheus 19:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I dont like the mergeing idea because soner or later someone will delete information from the merged article saying that there is to much information there, and therefore before anyone says there is to much info lets just keep the 2 articles apart.(Deng 06:54, 5 April 2006 (UTC))

 * On the contrary, I think a merged article helps prevent duplication of material and content forking, and makes it easier for the reader to find relevant material in one place. If it grows large, then large sections or more specific and detailed material can be split off into one or more specialized articles. —Michael Z. 2006-10-22 21:11 Z

Since the question of merging has been open for a long time, and the articles have changed since it was brought up, I'll re-propose it with a vote at the bottom of this discussion page, so we can resolve this. —Michael Z. 2006-10-22 21:11 Z

ISU abbreviation
Istrebitelnaja Samokhodnaya Ustanovka. What does "Istrebitelnaja" mean? —Michael Z. 2005-10-18 17:39 Z

 * I'm not sure. It's something I've seen associated with the vehicle and is the only expansion to ISU that I've seen which doesn't propose the I and S to be Iosef Stalin.  Oberiko 20:04, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

 * "ISU" means simply self-propelled gun based on the IS tank chassis. "SU" (Samohodnaya Ustanovka, Self-propelled gun) was already used in designations of early vehicles, such as SU-152 and SU-122. New abbreviature was introduced for better differentiation between vehicles. Istrebitelnaya means destroyer in this context. However this word is used only for mnemonic purposes such as "Save our souls" for SOS abbreviature. Primary Russian sources never use this word (I'm native Russian and have read some documents and books about ISU vehicles).
 * Lost Artilleryman

 * I got that from ISU-122. Google finds other examples. —Michael Z. 2005-10-18 20:44 Z

To all contributors in ISU-152 page
Great thank you for enhancing the article and supplying it with a photo.

There are some remarks about ISU-152 which were rejected from the article by Oberiko, but I think these are still worthy to include. Of course, my own English is quite ugly, may be someone tries to put following facts in the article in a proper manner.

1. Many people thinks that ISU-152 was a minor upgrade of SU-152. This is incorrect. ISU-152 had completely new hull with better armour protection then SU-152. The front armour thickness of ISU-152 was 90-120 mm vs 60-75 mm of SU-152. Due to better equipment layout this armour improvement did not increase the overall weight of the vehicle. Both ISU-152 and SU-152 weigh near 46 metric tons. The ISU-152 was equipped with new modification of V-2 diesel engine, V-2IS. It had reduced power to 520 hp in comparison with SU-152 V-2K engine (600 hp). This reducement improves general reliability of the V-2IS engine. ISU-152 was also equipped with completely new gearbox. This unit was quite unreliable in SU-152.

2. SU-152 and ISU-152 looks quite similarly. The distinguishive features are the idlers and the rear armour plate. ISU-152 has identical idlers and road wheels, while SU-152 has special idlers, non-compatible with road wheels. ISU-152 has rear armour of two flat plates, but SU-152 has one cylindrical-shaped plate. These features are light to recognize, other is not so viewable. Note: Presense of DShK machine-gun is not a ISU-152 unique feature. After repair some SU-152 were also equipped with it.

3. ISU-152 was the base for ISU-122 design. ISU-122 prototype had designation "Object 242" and was built in December 1943. It was launched into mass production at April 1944 due to lack of ML-20S tubes for arming ISU hulls.

4. There was another ISU-152 vehicle, called ISU-152 model 1945. This was a single prototype on the IS-3 tank base with much more strong armour and with ML-20SM gun-howitzer without muzzle break. Now it is a piece of Kubinka tank muzeum exposition.

With best wishes to all of you, Lost Artilleryman

Indirect fire capability?
I see the article mentions the ability to use the ISU-122/152 in the indirect fire role. I wasn't sure this was possible with these vehicles? Can someone confirm whether they were equipped with artillery-type sights? DMorpheus 19:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

 * ISU-122/152 had two sights: telescopic for direct fire and panoramic (so called Hertz's panorama, I don't know the right English term) for indirect fire. The left forward hatch was made specially for panoramic sight visor, not for crew members. Some photos in Russian history military magazines show ISU-152 firing with closed position, with stocks of projectiles and charges nearby the vehicle. The vehicle itself has small hatch on the left side for loading ammunition from the ground. LostArtilleryman 15:37, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Merge ISU-122 into ISU-152
Voting is closed —Michael Z. 2006-11-04 00:20 Z

Please see the discussion at the top of the page, and review the two articles since they've changed since the original proposal. Let's leave this vote open for ten days, to allow everyone to find it again, and then merge or remove the notices. —Michael Z. 2006-10-22 21:14 Z

Support

 * 1)  —Michael Z. 2006-10-22 21:48 Z
 * 2) Oberiko 02:32, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) DMorpheus
 * 4) Daniel.Bryant 00:11, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) LostArtilleryman 04:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * 2) Attilios --Attilios 23:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 3) 190.49.163.156 00:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
I'm haven't voted yet myself: I want to read through the articles again first. —Michael Z. 2006-10-22 21:14 Z

 * Voted. The two articles are largely redundant.  The differences between these two vehicles are what is important about them, and it would be much easier for the reader to compare them if it was merged.  The net result will be clearer, but require less reading. —Michael Z. 2006-10-22 21:50 Z

Results
I'm closing the vote now, since it's been longer than the proposed ten days. A two-to-one majority is in favour of merging these articles, but in light of LostArtilleryman's major contribution to ISU-122, I propose we don't merge the article's without including him in the consensus. What do you say, Lost? Would it be acceptable to go with the majority and merge these into a single good-quality article, or are you strongly opposed? —Michael Z. 2006-11-04 00:20 Z

 * Well, I'm strongly opposing the merge of ISU-152 and ISU-122 articles. My reasons are:
 * The card in upper right corner shall be ambiguous if ISU-152 & ISU-122 articles will be merged. The general data of ML-20S, A-19S and D-25S guns are not the same so table rows about caliber, ammunition, sights and so on will be cumbersome and not clear to understand what value corresponds particular vehicle.
 * Analogy with articles about M7 HMC and Sexton SPGs: they have very similar drive train from M3 Grant/Lee but differ in armament. There is no proposition to merge this articles
 * Please look to ru:ИСУ-152 (now it is a candidate to FA in ruWiki). There are information only about ISU-152 and in future I want with Bukvoed possible assistance translate it to English. As a result combined article about ISUs will be cumbersome and not easy to read.
 * Also I want to expand article about ISU-122. Do you hear about ISU-122-1 and ISU-122-2 variants? Unfortunately I have no much spare time an it must be shared between my own site and ruWiki where three articles with my participance now is a candidates to FA. Also my knowledge of English is not so great to free expression of my ideas about articles expanding.
 * ISU-152 and ISU-122 differs in some aspects of their combat use. E. g. the Russian enthusiasts about ISU-152 history dig out from the archives two facts and a photo of its indirect fire usage (along with many memoirs mention about this) but no such proves were found about ISU-122 - only direct fire usage. ISU-152s at the end of war relatively rare fought with German heavy AFVs but ISU-122s did. Once again explanations of this circumstances will make the merged article cumbersome.
 * So I'll be defend this point of view as Breat Fortress heroes :-) LostArtilleryman 08:01, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Fair enough. I suppose one of my main arguments for merging, the common employment of these vehicles, probably also applies to the earlier SU guns too, so a lot of the common information could someday find itself in articles about the Soviet Mechanized Corps, Soviet armoured doctrine, or Soviet antitank guns.  Wikipedia has a lot of technical articles about individual AFVs, but is lacking overview articles like these. —Michael Z. 2006-11-05 02:55 Z

Why isn't this considered a tank?
It's got loads of armour, an obscenely large gun, and range/speed/engine specs reminiscent of a tank. It looks like a tank, it works like a tank... what gives? Aadieu (talk) 20:58, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

A tank must have a turret. Jonathan Chin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.42.90.5 (talk) 10:18, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Technically a tank, in it's most basic form, does not have to have a turret to be considered a tank. A tank is any armored fighting vehicle that is fully enclosed in "heavy" armor ( a light tank doesn't have heavy armor but is still considered a tank, so yeah), carries a Gun, and runs on a continuous track system. However I do agree that the ISU 152 and 122 should not be considered tanks because there intended role is different from that of a tank. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.164.22 (talk) 04:14, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

ISU-152 found in Ukrainian village is started after 65 years and hauled away
Here is a video http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1e2_1365795228

B4Ctom1 (talk) 03:17, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

High-velocity variant
Experimental apparently. I don't recognize the gun. Someone not using his real name (talk) 02:57, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

"Military"
I know it's in vogue these days but is it necessary to refer to say, the Polish Army as the "Polish military" or the Red Army as the "Soviet military"? It's very clumsy. Yes, I know it is possible that some weapons were used by more than one service but this was far less likely in the period this piece was used. Flanker235 (talk) 05:38, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Lockman?
The article uses the term "lockman" several times without explanation. Any chance someone can add such, or a link to a page that explains? Graham.Fountain | Talk 13:12, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

 * I think it means a second loader who presumably operates the screw breach. Another loader would actually handle the ammunition. Honestly the entire article reads like a bad translation and I have never heard the term 'lockman' used in english for any artillery staff position. Rather than link to this nonexistent term the whole article should be copyedited. Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 14:02, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

Beast Killer
This content:   "  "Beast killer", a propaganda invention intended to create the idea that the Red Army had a solution to the  Ferdinand and Tiger tanks. " is exactly copied from the source, without quotes, and is thus plagiarism. I reverted. Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 20:20, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Ah now its plagiarism? How sneaky, you left no note (here and on your talk page) until today when I have reverted it, while you called it on your talk page: "This is unnecessary nonsense" on my response. Instead to remove it, how about to rewording the sentence? The statement made by historian Robert Forczyk, is highly uncontroversial. But, guess you simply wanted to get ride of it, right? Seems like you have now completely followed the same path of the IP that wanted to remove "Wehraboo tears" gotcha! GrapeJamDeluxe (talk) 20:40, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Kindly stop with the personal attacks; this is my second request.
 * I didn't post here because we were discussing it on my talk page. I posted here fr the benefit of other editors who might rightly wonder what is going on with this content.
 * Superficial language changes do not change the fact that this is plagiarism. Please see WP:PLAG DMorpheus2 (talk) 20:56, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * You keep reverting, despite it has been reworded and thus do not plagiarise anymore. GrapeJamDeluxe (talk) 21:05, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Comment -- who is Robert Forczyk and why does material cited to him needs to be in the lead? K.e.coffman (talk) 02:14, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Forczyk is alongside Zaloga a very acclaimed military historian. The lead summarize the body, previous you had nothing against it when you edited the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ISU-152&oldid=745708975 now, when the nickname finally got its recognition, we should get ride of it, because some have a different personal view of the things? GrapeJamDeluxe (talk) 05:36, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

 * I don't question Forczyk's ability; he is a former US Army armor officer; PhD, and author of multiple popular historical works. I think he easily qualifies as a RS.
 * The issue is that the original edit is plagiarized word-for-word from the citation. The minor alteration of wording now does not eliminate the plagiarism. Finally, I find the whole thing to be very POV and thus perhaps given undue weight. Weapons systems are given silly nicknames all the time. There is always an element of propaganda to it. If you doubt that, ask yourself why the brits has fighters with names like 'Spitfire' or 'Hurricane' or why the US had a 'thunderbolt'. It's all designed to evoke positive feelings on "our side". So what? Not sure why it is so damned important here and not every other article about a piece of equipment that has a silly nickname. DMorpheus2 (talk) 15:01, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * More specifically, using the term 'propaganda' is part of the problem here. 'Propaganda' is a pejorative term, thus not NPOV and thus probably not something to put into the introduction. It throws NPOV away in the second sentence of the article. The intro is already tagged as being too short. Thus there is way too much weight given to slamming the nickname.
 * In my opinion, leaving the term in, and labelling it an unofficial nickname, is a reasonable solution. I am not attempting to complete delete the content, just the commentary around it, the undue weight, and the POV. Regards, DMorpheus2 (talk) 15:15, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

 * The ISU-152 did not earn its nickname because it excelled in knocking out numerous Tiger and Ferdinands. The ISU-152 severed a big time in propaganda purposes as Forczyk pointed out and thus the nickname "Beast Killer" was created to give the ISU 152 a mythical combat reputation as an animal slayer. Or do you are still beliving those silly stories of 250 Tiger and Ferdinands were knocked out at Kursk, or that one ISU 152 knocked out 10 Tiger and Ferdinands in one attacking attempt?

 * The use of the word "propaganda" is appropriate, don't try to whitewash and fall into revisionism. I also urge you to stop making those silly semantics and comparison in order to mislead others from your personal view of the things. The nickname "Beast Killer" was a propaganda invention and served as such. To label it now as an unofficial nickname is as bad as your suggestion that "propaganda" is a filthy word for such a beautiful tank. GrapeJamDeluxe (talk) 10:33, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Here's a similar approach on another article, the wiki page on the US A-10 close-support aircraft:
 * The Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II is a single-seat, twin turbofan engine, straight wing jet aircraft developed by Fairchild-Republic for the United States Air Force (USAF). Commonly referred to by its nicknames Warthog or Hog, its official name comes from the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, a World War II fighter

 * The names are referred to as 'nicknames'. We do not call them "US propaganda". Hope this is helpful. DMorpheus2 (talk) 15:17, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Nonsense. You are comparing apples and oranges. The Thunderbolt didn't get his nickname for its well established combat reputation, instead, it refers to its appearance: ugly, slow, well armed etc. The ISU-152 nickname in contrary, (whose combat records are highly inflated by propaganda) was created, to give it an unparalleled combat reputation, which served propaganda purposes. Therfore, this is a highly dishonest comparison to a such unique and fabulous aircraft. GrapeJamDeluxe (talk) 10:33, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

 * I am comparing apples and apples. Hardware gets named or nicknamed (beast killer was never any kind of official designation). Your argument seems to be that when the USSR did it, it was propaganda, but when anyone else does the very same thing, it is just a nickname. Unless you intend to label every weapon's unofficial name as 'propaganda' (which I oppose) I suggest that word not be used here either. It is POV. I don't know what else can possibly be said on this subject. DMorpheus2 (talk) 13:45, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

 * No, you don't. You are being dishonest and making silly comparisons. Every nickname tells its own story, its qualities as a weapon, its appearance to the pilot who flew or drove them, and only a few were strictly invented to serve the propaganda narratives at time, irrespective of whether being Nazi, British or Soviet origin. None of your used examples comes in the slightest close to idea behind the creation of the ISU 152's nickname. You are simply grasping at straws and you probably know it.

 * The nickname "beast killer" as military historian Robert Forczyk pointed out, was solely a propganda invention, to underline its ability and to gave it an unparalleled combat record against Tiger and Ferdinand tanks. Forczyk also states, that some ISU-152 claims were either highly exaggerated or outright fictional. Even if its nickname was inofficial, that does not change the fact for which purpose it served. GrapeJamDeluxe (talk) 00:46, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Have others described the nickname as serving solely propaganda purposes? K.e.coffman (talk) 03:46, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Zaloga, referred to above, has referred to it in exactly the terms to which GrapeJamDeluxe now opposes (i.e., a term coined at Kursk because the SU-152 could knock out Tigers etc). I have not seen that nickname used with the ISU-152 specifically although one could argue it carries over. This discussion has gone on long past its productive value. DMorpheus2 (talk) 15:15, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Zaloga would have certaintly differentiate the term further when he could have had access to the combat records in 1984, for his work "Soviet Tanks and Combat Vehicles of World War Two" as the Soviet archives were not declassified until 1995.

 * The book is extremely aged, contains a lot of guesswork and estimates on Soviet side, he does also not support that the nickname "Zvierboy" was like any other nickname, nor does he support your argument against to label it as a propaganda term. That the ISU-152 could have knocked out German heavy tanks, is out of the equation as I never have argued against that. Instead, I said, that military historian Robert Forczyk has found that the kill claims of some ISU 152 crews against Tiger and Ferdinands were highly exaggerated or outright fictional and that the creation of the nickname origins from propaganda. However, I'm not aware that Zaloga has ever used that nickname again in his newer works such as the Red Army Handbook (2003) and Armored Champion (2015).

 * Yep, this discussion has reached its end and I'm going to restore the statement by historian Robert Forczyk soon. The only argument you could brought up against his well made examinations of the events and combat records, were you own weak personal view of the things and nothing more. If you still insist to appeal the restore, than I will find a way to report you and I will give that nickname finally that recognition which it deserve, namely being a propaganda invention.

 * At any rate, be wise, let's come to an agreement and end this. Whishing you a happy new year and see you on the other side of the calendar. GrapeJamDeluxe (talk) 20:29, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

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"Lack of turret"
Why does the description make it sound like the lack of a turret was some severe handicap which prevented it from engaging in anti-tank warfare or direct combat, when it is well-known that the Germans and others made extensive use of similarly-designed vehicles as tank destroyers, assault guns, etc. A person reading this comes off feeling like this is some especial drawback and that this was the only reason it was mostly used as SP artillery. This is obviously not the case. If this is true...and I have my doubts...it was a matter of Soviet policy. They needed SP artillery/assault guns more than they needed tank-destroyers. Although I was under the impression that the ISU 152 was used quite extensively to hunt tanks. I know the SU 152 was, another thing that gives the lie to the statement that the layout "prevented" it from serving in combat roles.

64.222.158.24 (talk) 04:50, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

This article is mediocre
This article is bad :

A) There is not even mention of the weight of the tank, and overall technical issues.

B) Do you really think that 1-3 shells per minute is an extremely low firing rate ??? Yes that is written in this article. It is just impossible : 1-3 shells per minute is an extremely HIGH firing rate, and absolutely impossible to achieve with this huge gun.

C) there is no information about real combat locations.2A02:A03F:6599:5B00:3115:A4F3:F209:D5B4 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:28, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:ISU-152


text:
User talk:Most reverted admin award

Anyone understand what's going on here? Why is this a user page rather than a Wikipedia page? What exactly are we measuring here? Is this user trying to claim some sort of official status, and if so is it justified? DJ Clayworth 15:44, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think this more on the humor side of things. It really doens't measure much (except how much vandals love you) and since it isn't that serious, why put it on wikipedia namespace? I guess the author wanted to remain anonymous, so he just created a page an userified it instead of putting it on Wikipedia: and watching the flames :) I think this needs some sort of barnstar-like award but I'm no good grpahic designer. -- (drini's page| ☎ ) 20:04, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

It would help if it made more sense. What does it mean for an admin to "hold their axiom" and why am I listed as an "inactive" admin? a ndroid 79  03:50, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm guessing that "hold their axiom" means how long the user has been an admin; most of the folks who are in the category "Admins we know how many times they have been reverted, but we dont know how long they hold their axiom" have been on Wikipedia for a long time (in my case, a peak at my Talk page will show I've been an admin for just over 2 years & 1 month). If I am correct, then there is one interesting conclusion to be drawn from this survey: if you become an Admin, then you will get your user page vandalized. Only 35 Admins on the list have had their User page vandalized once time or never. (And I can't understand why so many people have it in for Sannse -- she's been around Wikipedia as long as me, is far more patient & friendly, AFAIK doesn't get into disputes over content, & her User page has been vandalized 66 times!) -- llywrch 02:12, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Most reverted admin award


text:
Ben Ammi Ben-Israel

Ben Ammi Ben-Israel (בן עמי בן-ישראל; October 12, 1939 – December 27, 2014) was an American spiritual leader. Inspired by the Black Hebrew Israelites in the United States, he founded the African Hebrew Israelite Nation of Jerusalem, which claims that African Americans originate from the Land of Israel. The community's initial members claimed Israelite descent and undertook a major initiative to immigrate to the State of Israel during and after the 1960s. Ben Ammi stated that Black people were descended from the Twelve Tribes of Israel and thus were the "true inheritors" of Israel, and created a new religious movement that he claimed was authentically Hebrew or Israelite in theology and practice. Though he was born a Baptist Christian, he denounced Judaism and Christianity as false religions, but maintained that the Jewish Bible was still divine.

According to his community, Ben Ammi witnessed a divine revelation in Chicago in 1966, when the angel Gabriel told him to lead his people to Israel and establish the Kingdom of God there. He rallied other African Americans to his cause, changing his name from Ben Carter to Ben Ammi Ben-Israel, and first settled in Liberia before immigrating to Israel with his followers. The Israeli government and Israeli religious authorities recognized them as non-Jews and deported many of the community's illegal immigrants. Eventually, some of the community's members were given pathways to permanent residency and Ben Ammi himself became an Israeli citizen in 2013. A number of African Hebrew Israelites, heeding calls from Ben Ammi in the past, have also enlisted in the Israel Defense Forces.

In 2014, Ben Ammi died at a hospital in Beersheba; his African Hebrew Israelite Nation stood at about 5,000 people at this time and was mostly concentrated in Dimona. His views and statements, as well as those of his community's, have stirred controversy and are often charged with antisemitism and Black supremacy. Following Israel's deportation of many African Hebrew Israelite illegal immigrants, Ben Ammi accused the Israeli government of racism and of occupying the Holy Land through an international Jewish conspiracy. He also claimed that Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs had an erroneous tradition of descent from Isaac and Ishmael, respectively, and that they were instead descended from European Crusaders. Ben Ammi stated that African Americans had been victims of "Euro-gentile dominion" in the United States, where they were led to believe that Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were not Black people. He and his community have not identified as Jewish.

Biography
Ben Carter (later Ben Ammi Ben-Israel) was born in Chicago, Illinois, to a Baptist family. After dropping out of high school, Carter served three years in the United States Army, where he earned an equivalency degree. He married Patricia Price (later Ahdinah Carter) in 1959.

After Carter was discharged from the Army, he worked as a metallurgist at Chicago's Howard Foundry. In 1961, a co-worker introduced him to the idea that African Americans are descendants of the Biblical Israelites. Carter began to attend meetings of black Israelite groups, and was given a Hebrew name, Ben Ammi Ben-Israel. In 1964 he and several others founded the Abeta Hebrew Israel Culture Center.

According to the Hebrew Israelite community, in 1966, Ben Ammi received a vision from the angel Gabriel, who told him to lead African-Americans to Israel. In the vision, he claimed he was instructed to: "Lead the children of Israel among African Americans to the promised land, and establish the long-awaited Kingdom of God." In any case, Ben Ammi was one of four members of the Abeta Hebrew Israel Cultural Center to be chosen to travel to Liberia to explore the possibility of settlement there.

In July 1967, a number of Abeta families began to arrive in Liberia, settling in spartan conditions on land purchased by an African American citizen of Liberia on behalf of the community. According to one account, Ben Ammi began his rise to leadership within the group around Passover in 1968. In accordance with their belief that they were the descendants of ancient Israelites, community members planned to sacrifice a lamb or kid (baby goat) as part of the observance of the holiday. When the goat acquired for the occasion was found accidentally strangled, and therefore ritually impure to be used as a sacrifice, Ben Ammi made a speech declaring that the faith and observance of the Black Hebrews was the true sacrifice that God desired.

The Abeta settlers were not welcomed by the Liberian government, and suffered from economic and social difficulties. Many died from diseases, and many others returned to the USA. In May 1968, Ben Ammi visited Israel to once again explore the possibility the group's relocation, taking with him Hezekiyah Blackwell. Blackwell remained in Israel, enlisting in a kibbutz in order to become familiar with Israeli culture.

According to Ben Ammi, tickets were purchased for their move to Israel with the proceeds from the sale of two ice cream shops established for the group's benefit in Monrovia, as well as "divine intelligence." In 1970, 48 families became new immigrants under Israel's Law of Return. Ben Ammi and more of his followers arrived in the ensuing months, settling in the Negev city of Dimona. Others settled in Arad and Mitzpe Ramon The community was eventually given permanent residency in 1990, and later were entitled to become Israeli citizens by naturalization, which does not imply any Jewish status. Ben Ammi served as the community's spiritual and political leader during this time, authoring a number of books.

Ben Ammi died in a hospital in Be'er Sheva. At the time of his death, Ben Ammi had four wives—Tikvah, Yoninah, Baht Zion and Baht Ammi, as well as 25 children, 45 grandchildren, and 15 great-grandchildren. He had been granted Israeli citizenship in 2013.

Teachings
Ben Ammi claimed that he and the Black Hebrews from the original Liberian settlement were not Jews but Hebrews, the true descendants of the ancient Israelites. Ben Ammi originally believed that Moses and Abraham were black, and that the Black Hebrews were the only "true" inheritors of Israel.

While rejecting the modern religious forms of both Judaism and Christianity, he maintained the divine inspiration of the Tanakh, and perceived Yeshua as one of an ongoing line of 'messiahs' sent by God to keep the people of Israel in the ways of righteousness. The core of the group's lifestyle is the Tanakh, Ben Ammi claimed that "the Law and the Prophets...are the light; they are the essence of what is required to set man on the path and show him the way back to his Maker." However the group reject the traditions of Rabbinic Judaism including the Talmud as inauthentic to Hebrew religion.

Ben Ammi claimed that Africans are the victims of "a cruel plot to control us, an international religious plot that came about as a result of Blacks disobeying the law and commandments of God." In the attempt to overcome the history of slavery and the bondage in America, Ammi argues that it is essential to "reexamine and redefine all things...we must question every facet of existence under Euro-gentile dominion." The ability to name and classify the word and social concepts Ammi calls "The Power to Define", which in the wrong hands is "one of the greatest weapons that can be used to control men and nations," but is the key to salvation from past oppression.

Ben Ammi translated his perspective of Africa's problems being "spiritual problems" into an expansive set of socio-political, economic, agricultural and health-related positions. He emphasized the need for African Leaders to "learn from their history and the African Cultural Value System", in order to combat the "perception engineering" which is conducted by many Western institutions.

During a 2002 interview with Rob Redding of the Redding News Review, Ben Ammi expressed confidence in his community's ability to persevere even without him. When asked "What are the provisions within the community, to take care of the community, should something happen to you?" he responded "It is the word that I speak, the truth that I speak, that is deeply embedded in their souls...I am flesh, blood, and spirit - but it is the spirit I possess; the spirit the ancient prophets possess, that is of such significance to the redemption of our people." Defining himself as a "representative" of this Holy Spirit, Ben Ammi carefully distinguished the community from a sect or cult that risked social or political disintegration as a result of his absence, citing the long-term implications of Daniel 2:44 for biblical reference

Ben-Israel was revered as a messianic figure in the community, his picture adorning at least one wall in every apartment. In an interview, Ben Ammi described his status as a spiritual leader:

"My anointing did not come until after we had arrived in Israel. The Father sent a prophet to anoint me and to let me know the further off or great portion of my mission...At the time he anointed me...I received the name Nasi Hashalom [The Prince of Peace]...Later on this same prophet came again to tell me according to the word of God that at a later date someone would be sent to anoint me to sit on the throne of David in the spirit and to fulfill the prophecies of he that was to sit on the throne of David. The words of a true prophet, they certainly came to pass, and it took place just as he said. Afterwards, from Nasi Hashalom my name was changed to Rabbey and Adoni Rabbey [My Lord and Master]."

According to the Hebrew Israelite community, singer and then actress Whitney Houston claimed Ben-Israel as her spiritual father.

Ben Ammi's approach to theology has been characterized as one of "pneumatic immanence", which combines a belief in an indwelling God with the centrality of Life as a manifestation of Divinity. While God was the source of life, growth and vitality, Ammi counterposed this with satan (uncapitalized) which was the power of death, decay and destruction. Ammi taught physical immortality as the intended and eventual state of humanity, but one that could only be realized through righteous living: following the commandments given in the Torah and building a perfect society. This is the channeling of Divine power through humanity - a necessary element given that Ben Ammi's God is non-interventionist, only influencing humans through subtle convincing.

It has been argued that while Ammi's early teachings were apocalyptic and conspiratorial, as well as exclusive in their focus on African Americans, these later matured into a sophisticated universalist theology which drew upon various elements found within American Protestantism; the Black Church; Black Hebrew Israelite tradition; academic Black Theology; Black Power thought; and the teachings of Elijah Muhammad. The changes may have been impacted by the non-occurrence of the predicted apocalypse of September 1977, and the need to forge a non-antagonistic path forward with the State of Israel.

Awards and recognition
In March 2010, Ben Ammi received a Lifetime Achievement Award in Ghana, West Africa. This award is given out by the Ghanaian Country Awards Council. At the ceremony, the Country Director of CACG (Country Awards Council Ghana) stated that Ben Ammi "has helped bridged the gap between spirituality and development like no other leader before in global history, in the process creating new and progressive options for successfully building communities and projects based on enduring righteous, African cultural principles."

BBC's "Focus on Africa" magazine in the year 2000 named him "One of the Most Influential Africans of the Last Millennium".

title: Ben Ammi Ben-Israel


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Catfish show

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. — J I P | Talk 18:07, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Catfish show
Here we have a podcast with no proof that anyone actually watches it. Pilatus 15:45, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

 * If you prove that it's popular it will be kept. This is not the "Directory of random podcasts". Pilatus 16:02, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete unless verifiably assertions of notability added CLW 16:19, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Podcruft. Adam Curry's are listed because he is a pioneer of podcasting and therefore notable.  Catfish show is yet another vanity podcast of little notability.  Even if it was one of the  first ones, it doesn't predate The Daily Source Code.  Podcasts are like Blogs: inherently non-notable unless the person(s) producing them are notable or there is something that sets them apart from the thousands of other crufty casts out there.--Isotope23 16:47, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Ouch. Nice to meet some genuinely nice people online...;-) I'm new to Wikipedia & thought I'd write about something nice- I thought Wikipedia wanted to include everything it could but obviously I had the wrong idea & I must apologise if I got things wrong. I'm saddened by the hostility I've come across here  It doesn't matter if it's deleted it or not, but why pick holes in other people's entries? Feel free to delete it.  81.79.251.53 17:11, 11 October 2005 (UTC)ds81.79.251.53 17:11, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. People are welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia on any topic, but are very strongly advised not to contribute material about themselves or their own enterprises. If it's famous someone else will put it in Wikipedia. Have a look at What Wikipedia is not. The Land 18:46, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

 * It isn't about myself or my own enterprises! Comprende??Boy do you guys have fun criticising- guess it's easier than being nice! Point taken, so let's leave it for Wikkipedia to remove now, hey? 81.76.65.36 19:55, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * My intent was to lay out the reasons I don't believe Catfish show merits inclusion in wikipeida (if you were refering to my comments). I'm sorry if my comments came across as hostile.  They were in no way an attack on you personally, 81.79.251.53.  I just happen to think there is a strong case for not including most podcasts in wikipedia.  I hope you create a username and continue to edit and participate here.--Isotope23 20:03, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable podcast with Alexa rank of 3,975,632. Andrew pmk | Talk 01:16, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Maybe create a List of Podcasts? See Category:Podcasts. Zhatt  18:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Proti, Florina

Proti (Πρώτη, before 1928: Καμπάσνιτσα - Kampasnitsa; Bulgarian/Macedonian: Кладошница, Kladošnica or Кабасница, Kabasnica) is a small village in the Florina regional unit of Macedonia, northern Greece, located approximately 5 km northwest from the city of Florina, to which it belongs administratively.

History
The village first appears in two chysobulls of the Serbian Tsar Stefan Dušan preserved in the archives of Treskavec monastery near Prilep. The documents, dated to 1343-44 and 1344–45, mention the village under its Aromanian name Klbasnicu in connection with a transhumant "route of the Vlachs," a toponym (vlaški pat) preserved today for a footpath following the crest of a hill to the west of the village. An Ottoman defter of 1481 records eighty households in the village.

In the book “Ethnographie des Vilayets d'Adrianople, de Monastir et de Salonique”, published in Constantinople in 1878, that reflects the statistics of the male population in 1873, Kladochnitza was noted as a village with 40 households and 110   male Bulgarian inhabitants. According to the statistics of Geographers Dimitri Mishev and D. M. Brancoff, the village had a total Christian population of 520 in 1905, all Patriarchist Bulgarians (Grecomans). It also had 1 Greek school.

At one time a flourishing community of 500 people whose primary occupation was wheat farming, Proti today is an agricultural hamlet with 115 residents (2021 census).

There are a number of public buildings in the hamlet. The school, though unused, is in good condition. The church is impeccably maintained. In the rear of the church is the graveyard with many stones that are centuries old.

Proti was ravaged during World War II. Many residents left in the 1950s and 1960s in search of a better life and went to the U.S., Canada, and Australia.

Demographics
In fieldwork done by Riki Van Boeschoten in late 1993, Proti was populated by Slavophones. The Macedonian language was spoken in the village by people over 30 in public and private settings. Children understood the language, but mostly did not use it.

title: Proti, Florina


text: User talk:131.159.38.143

title: User talk:131.159.38.143


text:
Glenn Barr

Albert Glenn Barr OBE (19 March 1942 – 24 October 2017) was a politician from Derry, Northern Ireland, who was an advocate of Ulster nationalism. For a time during the 1970s he straddled both Unionism and Loyalism due to simultaneously holding important positions in the Vanguard Unionist Progressive Party and the Ulster Defence Association.

UDA
Initially a member of a general trade union, Barr first came to prominence at the very start of the Troubles in 1969 when he was involved in an initiative to ensure Protestant workers did not join in strikes called by the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association. He went on to join the Loyalist Association of Workers in the early 1970s and from there became involved in the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). The loose associations of shop stewards that existed in Derry and the surrounding areas formed the basis of the UDA in this area. Indeed, it was Barr who served as Brigadier of the North-West Brigade of the UDA, which would later be known as the Londonderry and North Antrim Brigade.

Politics
Around this time Barr also became involved in politics by joining the Vanguard Unionist Progressive Party (VPUP) and was elected to the Northern Ireland Assembly, which had been set up under the Sunningdale Agreement, in 1973. As a result, Barr was the only UDA member to serve in either of the two bodies elected in Northern Ireland following the collapse of the Stormont Parliament. However, according to Ian S. Wood it had been Barr's profile as a trade unionist and community worker, rather than any UDA connections, that had won him the election.

He soon became a leading figure in the opposition to Sunningdale agreement and effectively led the Ulster Workers' Council strike that brought about the collapse of the new power-sharing government. Barr was chairman of the Ulster Loyalist Central Co-ordinating Committee, a group containing Ulster Workers' Council representatives, politicians and paramilitaries that directed the strike. He would later comment that it would have been feasible to establish a provisional government for an independent Northern Ireland from this body.

Always something of a maverick within Unionist politics, Barr served a three-month suspension from the United Ulster Unionist Council (UUUC) after endorsing the candidacy of Ken Gibson of the Volunteer Political Party for West Belfast in the October 1974 general election despite the Democratic Unionist Party's John McQuade representing the UUUC. During his suspension Barr was part of a UDA delegation that made a fund-raising trip to Libya where they met with Muammar Gaddafi. Barr claimed when he returned that Gaddafi, who at the time was funding the Provisional IRA, had expressed a firm interest in providing money for an independent Northern Ireland. The trip however, on which Barr was accompanied by Tommy Lyttle, Andy Robinson and Harry Chicken, was widely condemned by unionist politicians because of the purportedly left-wing nature of the Gaddafi regime whilst the same reason was used a basis by Charles Harding Smith to launch a loyalist feud against UDA leader Andy Tyrie, whose idea the trip had been. In the course of this feud, Harding Smith placed Barr under a death threat, although nothing came of this as the pro-Tyrie forces quickly dispatched the challenge of Harding Smith.

When the VPUP split after leader William Craig suggested in the Northern Ireland Constitutional Convention that he would consider a power-sharing arrangement with the Social Democratic and Labour Party Barr was one of the few leading figures to remain loyal to Craig rather than decamping to Ernest Baird's United Ulster Unionist Party. When the UDA intimated that it did not back Craig's position either Barr tendered his resignation from the paramilitary group. Barr, who had exchanged angry words with Ian Paisley on a few occasions when both men were central to the 1974 strike, publicly distanced himself from the attempted strike organised by Paisley's United Unionist Action Council in 1977. Along with David Trimble he became deputy leader of the Vanguard and held this position until the party dissolution in 1978. He, however, did not follow Craig in joining the Ulster Unionist Party and instead returned to his UDA roots.

Return to UDA activity
Barr had been invited back into the UDA after the failure of the second strike, with a feeling within the movement that he had been proven right with his opposition to the failed initiative and so would be an asset politically to the movement. Following the collapse of Vanguard Barr returned to a leading position in the UDA, becoming involved in the New Ulster Political Research Group (NUPRG). Whilst there, Barr took a leading role in the production of Beyond the Religious Divide, a document which sought to set out a framework for a move towards eventual independence for Northern Ireland. Barr became increasingly disillusioned with what he saw as the callousness of unionist politicians towards their electorate, and the blind loyalty of that electorate. He commented: "They could have sent a donkey with a Union Jack tied to its tail up the Shankill Road, and we would have voted for it." Barr was also chosen to break the self-imposed media blackout adopted by the NUPRG in late 1978 when he gave an interview to the Irish political magazine Magill during which he put forward the case for independence.

The UDA, however, failed to recommend the proposals to its members and, as a result, Barr drifted away from the NUPRG, leaving politics altogether in 1981 to return to community work in Derry. Barr also had a somewhat fractious relationship with the NUPRG's chairman John McMichael and following Barr's retirement McMichael changed the group, abandoning Barr's pet project of establishing a cross-community Northern Ireland Negotiated Independence Association, and instead set up the Ulster Loyalist Democratic Party.

Later years
Barr set up a scheme for disadvantaged young people by which they would receive low-wage employment and training under the government ACE scheme (later called the New Deal). Both Barr and Paddy Doherty, who established a similar scheme in the Catholic Bogside area, would eventually face criticism for what became known colloquially "ACE empires" as both employed very high numbers of youths on these poorly paid training schemes.

Barr briefly emerged from his political retirement in 1994 when he joined his old friend from the strike Andy Tyrie in heading up an initiative to gain funding for the Ulster Democratic Party. He appeared set for a more active return in 1998 when he took up a seat on the Parades Commission, a move roundly condemned by nationalists, given Barr's UDA past, and one that saw resignations from the board in protest. Ultimately, however, Barr himself resigned on 24 April 1998, along with loyalist Tommy Cheevers not long after the Commission had banned an Apprentice Boys parade from the nationalist lower Ormeau Road. Barr continued to work on community projects in Derry, running the Maydown Youth Training Project Ltd, which seeks to alleviate the high levels of unemployment amongst the young in the Derry. He had also worked closely with Paddy Harte, a former Irish Government minister, on promoting awareness of Irish Catholic participation in both World Wars.

Death
Barr died at Altnagelvin hospital on 24 October 2017 at the age of 75. DUP MP Gregory Campbell paid tribute to him and the hard work he carried out in the community. Sinn Féin MP Elisha McCallion described him as being "on a journey of reconciliation" and expressed her sorrow at his passing. Social Democratic and Labour Party leader Colum Eastwood praised his dedication to peace and reconciliation. He was interred in Altnagelvin cemetery after a service at Ebrington Presbyterian church in Derry.

He was married to Isa, with whom he had four children.

title: Glenn Barr


text: Category talk:Egyptian artists

title: Category talk:Egyptian artists


text:
Video Italia

Video Italia was an Italian television channel owned by Gruppo Radio Italia. With Radio Italia Solo Musica Italiana, it telecasted Italian music videos and concerts on SKY Italia channel 712. On 31 December 2012, it was closed and merged with Radio Italia TV.

title: Video Italia


text:
User:ImaginaryFriend

User Page
Hey

I'm the user formally known as 220.240.188.192 and have finally decided to start my own user page.

Currently I've only been making small changes to articles and reverting vandalism. Also I have taken an interest in wikiquote so I spend some of my time correcting and improving some of those pages.

title: User:ImaginaryFriend


text:
User:Vash01

Vash01 is my alternate nickname. My usual nickname is Vash. I am a Christian-IRC Global Operator and I like to do research on a lot of stuff such as the 29a.

title: User:Vash01


text:
LSWR O2 class

The LSWR O2 class is a class of 0-4-4T steam locomotive designed for the London and South Western Railway by William Adams. Sixty were constructed during the late nineteenth century. They were also the last steam engines to work on the Isle of Wight, with the final two being withdrawn in 1967. One has been preserved and is operational.

Background
Adams was presented with the problem of a greatly increasing volume of commuter traffic experienced with the suburbanisation of London during the 1880s. This was exacerbated by the fact that there were few locomotive classes in the LSWR stable that could undertake commuter traffic at the desired level of efficiency. The LSWR therefore required a locomotive with attributes of power and compactness, with a small wheel size to gain acceleration on intensive timetables. Adams settled upon the 0-4-4T wheel arrangement to provide the basis of what was to become the O2 Class.

Construction history
The second of William Adams' 0-4-4T designs, the O2 class was a development of his previous T1 class of 1888. The brief behind the design was to create a locomotive capable of mixed-traffic operations, a characteristic dictated by the relatively small wheel diameter and smaller cylinders, effectively to replace the obsolete Beattie 0298 Class. As a result, a compact locomotive with high route availability was produced, a factor that would be essential during the later career of the class.

Production began in 1889, with the first 20 being constructed at the LSWR's Nine Elms Locomotive Works. The success of the locomotive ensured that a second batch of 30 locomotives was ordered the next year. A final batch of ten was constructed by 1895.

1889–1922: LSWR
The class was initially used intensively on London suburban services, but began to be replaced on these as early as 1897 by the introduction of the more powerful Drummond M7 and T1 classes. As a result, the O2s were cascaded to lighter services, and became distributed throughout the LSWR system, being of particular use on restricted branch lines due to their relatively low weight and short wheelbase.

1923–1948: Southern Railway
All of the O2s survived to be taken into Southern Railway ownership after the Grouping in 1923. They continued to be used across the former LSWR network, however, electrification and the introduction of more modern types started to make them redundant. This allowed the Southern Railway to send the first 2 spare examples across to the Isle of Wight (see below). Other redundant mainland locomotives were withdrawn, with eight going in the 1930s, and four more in the 1940s. A small number (less than 10) were fitted with Push-Pull controls; One example worked the line from Lee on Solent to Fareham with a 2 coach gated push-pull set (the loco being replaced under BR with an A1X Push-Pull equipped Terrier with just the driving trailer). Another example of push pull operation working was from Guildford to Leatherhead with a 2 coach ex-LSWR Maunsell converted Lav Non-corridor Suburban Push-Pull set with initially 2 driving cabs (under BR this was reduced to the engine with a single driving trailer)

1948–1967: British Railways
Despite the early withdrawals, a number of O2s lasted well into BR days, working various branch lines until closure began to take place in the late 1950s and early 1960s. As a result, the mainland O2s became redundant and the last to go was number 30225 in 1962.

Isle of Wight
The class is usually best associated with the Isle of Wight railway system, with the Isle of Wight Central Railway making enquires as to the possibility of purchasing some class members in the early twentieth century. This plan fell through, however, and it was not until after Grouping in 1923 that the newly formed Southern Railway was forced to resolve the desperate locomotive power situation on the Isle of Wight.

The solution to this problem presented itself when electrification of the LSWR's suburban network resulted in a cascade of newer, more powerful designs (such as the M7s and T1s) into the rural strongholds of the O2 class. As a result, several O2s became surplus to mainland requirements. Two of these spare engines were modified at Eastleigh works with the addition of a Westinghouse air brakes to allow compatibility with the Isle of Wight coaching stock. These two O2s were shipped across the Solent in 1923 and trialled extensively on services across the island, particularly on the intensive Ryde–Ventnor services, which they proved highly capable of handling. Further engines were then shipped across in small batches during the 1920s and 1930s.

The final two O2s were sent to the island in 1949 after nationalisation the previous year, resulting in a total of 23 locomotives on the island's lines. Due to tunnel restrictions at Ventnor none of the final series of ten with the higher cab roofs were sent. Thanks to their compact nature, low weight and relatively high power they proved ideal for island duties, although the lack of adequate coal bunker space initially hampered the class. Thus from 1932, a much larger extended bunker was fitted to W19 (formerly 206), and this design subsequently became the standard for all the island locomotives. They handled trains of up to six bogie coaches on all the Island lines, including the 1-in-70 Apse bank from Shanklin to Wroxall.

After the withdrawal of the last LB&SCR E1 class in 1960, the O2 became the only locomotive class on the island. They survived in service until the end of steam services on the island, with an O2 operating the final train on 31 December 1966.

Two examples, numbers W24 Calbourne and W31 Chale, were retained to work engineers' trains during the electrification of the surviving Ryde–Shanklin line. Both were withdrawn on completion of the electrification project in March 1967.

LSWR
Initially outshopped in early LSWR passenger Yellow Ochre/Brown livery with the initials 'LSW' on the water tank sides. This was eventually superseded by the later LSWR Passenger Sage Green livery, with black edging and black and white lining. Numbering was in gilt, as was the 'LSWR' lettering on the water tank side.

Only a solitary mainland locomotive ever carried a name in service: Number 185 Alexandra for a short period between 1890 and 1896.

Southern Railway
In Southern Railway days, the O2s were painted in Maunsell lined Olive Green and then subsequently Bulleid Malachite Green with Sunshine lettering. The LSWR numbers were retained by the Southern Railway, with mainland locomotives allocated numbers in the series between 177 and 236.

Locomotives on the Isle of Wight were renumbered in a separate sequence with the prefix "W" and taking the next available number, or the number of the withdrawn locomotive they were sent over to replace. Eventually, those on the island occupied the entire sequence between W14 and W36. All the O2s allocated to the Isle of Wight were named after places on the island.

British Railways
The class was given the Power Classification of 0P, and initially carried the Southern livery with the addition of 'British Railways' on the water tank sides, though this was promptly changed to the BR Standard Mixed-Traffic Black livery with red and white lining.

The Isle of Wight's unique numbering system was retained on the BR examples on the island, along with the names.

The mainland complement were renumbered by the addition of 30000 to their existing Southern Railway numbers to give a new number in the 30177 to 30236 sequence.

Preservation
The two Isle of Wight locomotives, W24 and W31, were used on engineering trains survived long enough for preservation attempts to be made. However, the attempt to preserve W31 Chale failed and it was scrapped in 1967. W24 Calbourne was bought by the Wight Locomotive Society, which in 1971 moved its headquarters to Havenstreet and became the Isle of Wight Steam Railway. Calbourne was restored to operating condition, re-entering service in 1992, and had a further overhaul in 2010, hauling tourist trains over the line between Smallbrook Junction and Wootton. A further overhaul began in 2019 and was completed in 2021 for the locomotive's 130th anniversary and the railway's 50th. Calbourne is the sole survivor of the O2 locomotives; the rest of the class were scrapped.

Models
DJ Models has produced OO gauge ready-to-run models of the O2 class in both mainland and IOW variants. For O gauge, a 7mm brass kit of the O2 is produced by Connoisseur Models, both mainland and Isle of Wight versions are covered. Roxey Models have a 7mm white metal kit with nickel silver chassis; mainland and IOW versions are covered.

EFE Rail (part of Bachmann) have re-introduced the OO gauge Kernow model with five versions in 2024 viz. LSWR, two Southern and two black BR.

title: LSWR O2 class


text:
Cihuatlán

Cihuatlán is a coastal municipality in the Mexican state of Jalisco. Its main city is also named Cihuatlán.

Etymology
The word Cihuatlán is compounded of two words of Nahuatl origin, a language spoken in central Mexico since the seventh century AD and the language of the Aztecs: Zihua, woman, and Tlán place; therefore in Cihuatlán means place of women.

History
The town was founded on the Marabasco River, and at the time of the Spanish conquest its population was about 500 women and only 20 men. The first Spanish expedition to the Jalisco coastal zone was led by Gonzalo de Sandoval.

By decree of the President of the Republic of Mexico, on December 16, 1825, the harbour Barra de Navidad was rebuilt in order to accommodate local and foreign trade.

Coat of arms
The Cihuatlán coat of arms is in a French style with cross-sectioning. In the upper left section is the image of a pre-Hispanic woman's head. In the upper right section is a ship sailing on the sea. In the bottom left section is a religious building and in the bottom right section, a view of a fertile valley.

Most important settlements

 * Cihuatlán, 15,697 inhabitants (2005)
 * Melaque, 6,379 inhabitants
 * Barra de Navidad, 3,386 inhabitants
 * Jaluco, 2,182 inhabitants
 * Emiliano Zapata, 1,589 inhabitants

Notable people

 * Nestor Enrique Valencia Guerrero, June 9, 1965, grandson to former municipal president of Cihuatlán, Ramon Valencia Torres, Mayor and Councilmember of the City of Bell, California, USA. First Mayor in the United States that welcomed immigrant children from Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador, in 2014. Also, his civic actions for the City of Bell changed government transparency laws.

title: Cihuatlán


text:
Talk:Salt River Bay National Historical Park and Ecological Preserve

"Historic" vs. "Historical"
FYI, the park's website call it "Salt River Bay National Historic Park...", but all other "parks" of historic character are Historical (as opposed to National Historic Sites, which do not have the "al"). I checked the Congressional record (H.R.2927 introduced 7/17/1991 - Became Public Law No: 102-247) and it labels it "Salt River Bay National Historical Park..." — Eoghanacht  talk 15:51, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Columbus picture
The image of Christopher Columbus is just a "holding" picture to give the article some visual appeal, feel free to replace with/add an image of the actual park. — Eoghanacht  talk 22:28, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

External links modified
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text:
De Lisle College

De Lisle College (formerly De Lisle Roman Catholic Comprehensive School, then De Lisle Catholic Science College and sometimes called De Lisle School) is a co-educational secondary school with academy status in Loughborough, Leicestershire, England. According to the Ofsted website, it has 1,400 pupils. It was designated as a science specialist school in 2003. It draws the majority of its pupils from seven local Catholic primary schools, including Bishop Ellis, Sacred Heart, St Mary's, St Winefride's, St. Clare's, St Francis and Holy Cross Academy. Since September 2018, it has been a part of the St Thomas Aquinas Catholic Multi-Academy Trust.

School traditions and other information
The school logo is a stag, a reference to the deer which once roamed the land the school is built on, before it was given to the county by local landowner Ambrose Lisle March Phillipps De Lisle, from whom the school also takes its name.

The school's Latin motto, "Quod justum, non quod utile" is often translated as "do what is right, not what is easy" but literally translates to "what is fair, not what is useful."

The school has four houses: Margaret Clitherow (blue), Thomas Moore (red), John Fisher (green), Ralph Sherwin (yellow), For a period, the houses were renamed after individuals with a religious legacy: Mother Teresa (blue), Oscar Romero (red), Martin Luther King Jr. (green) and St. Bernadette (yellow), though the names had reverted by sometime before September 2019.

School buildings
On site facilities include a swimming pool, a library, and a cashless vending system operated by the user's thumbprint.

The school retains all of its original 1950s structures, but renovation work has been put into the Science rooms, giving them a complete refit, the Art and Design & Technology rooms (in some cases completely remodelling them).

Addition to the building
In the early 1990s, the Modern Foreign Languages block was built separately from the other school buildings next to the swimming pool, allowing the department to have its own buildings and rooms. This was dubbed the "New Block", but has reverted to the "Languages Block" with the rooms losing the "N" prefix and was firstly replaced by the "L" prefix (e.g. L2), and now the “La” prefix (e.g. La2). In 2003/4 the Humanities block was built as an add-on to the science buildings, allowing the Science department to branch out. Four mobile classrooms have also been built, taking up small portions of what used to be the main playground. These were intended as temporary units for classroom overflow, but have since become much more permanent, with new ramps to the doors. There are two rooms in each unit. The rooms have been recently refurbished and are now the main classrooms for Year 7 students. There are now four mobiles, split in half to make eight classrooms. To non-year 7 students, the mobiles serve as classrooms for an all-round general purpose, from English to Business Studies.

In the media
In September 2019, an article was published in the Leicester Mercury about the school banning all smartphones from school grounds. The new rule had been brought in because the headteacher John Pye said the devices caused conflict among students. He also referred to a statement made by Amanda Spielman, HM Chief Inspector of Schools, who had backed the banning of phones in schools. The rule change caused significant controversy amongst students and parents.

The school again courted controversy in October 2021 when they were visited by a teacher branded the 'toughest' in the land. Ex-head Barry Smith was invited on a temporary basis to help with the smooth transition of pupils between classes. The visit sparked a backlash from parents, with several contacting LeicestershireLive expressing dismay and confusion over his role at the school. A great deal of dissatisfaction was expressed that a "new discipline regime" had been introduced along the lines of Smith's methods. Barry Smith had previously been removed from his school in January 2020 after 'restraining' a pupil.

In December 2021, Assistant Headteacher Simon McLone appeared at Loughborough Magistrates Court charged with 'sexual activity with a girl aged 13 to 17' and 'abusing a position of trust'. On the 8th April 2022 the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) decided to offer no evidence in the case, which resulted in a verdict of ‘not guilty’ against McLone.

Notable alumni

 * Dominic Reed (b. 1990) - cricketer
 * Joe Maksymiw (b. 1995) - professional rugby union player, Welsh regional side Dragons (rugby union), Irish provincial side Connacht Rugby

title: De Lisle College


text:
October incident

The October incident (十月事件), also known as the Imperial Colors incident (錦旗革命事件), was an abortive coup d'état attempt in the Empire of Japan on 21 October 1931, launched by the Sakurakai secret society within the Imperial Japanese Army, aided by civilian ultranationalist groups.

Background and history
Having failed to replace the government with a totalitarian military dictatorship in the abortive coup d'état of the March Incident of March 1931, Lt. Col. Kingoro Hashimoto of the Sakurakai and his ultra-nationalist civilian supporters, including Shūmei Ōkawa, resolved to try again in October 1931.

Soon after the Japanese invasion of Manchuria by the Kwantung Army, without prior authorization from the Imperial Japanese Army General Staff Office and over the ongoing objections of the Japanese civilian government, Capt. Isamu Chō returned secretly to Japan (without orders) from North China to lead the plot to "prevent the government from squandering the fruits of our victory in Manchuria". He was able to recruit the support of 120 members of the Sakurakai, ten companies of troops from the Imperial Guards and ten bomber aircraft from the Imperial Japanese Navy.

The main elements of the plot included:

 * Key statesmen and officials such as Prime Minister Wakatsuki Reijirō, Grand Chamberlain Saitō Makoto, Prince Saionji Kinmochi, and Lord Keeper of the Privy Seal Makino Nobuaki, and Foreign Minister Kijūrō Shidehara were to be assassinated.
 * The Imperial Palace, Tokyo Metropolitan Police Headquarters, and other key government buildings were to be seized by troops loyal to the Sakurakai
 * A new cabinet would be formed under the auspices of Gen. Sadao Araki, chief of the radical Imperial Way Faction. The new government would ban political parties, and would consolidate the recent territorial gains of Japan in Manchuria.
 * The Emperor would be forced to accept this Shōwa Restoration even if under threat of violence.

However, younger elements within the conspiracy came to doubt their leaders and seceded from the plot. In addition, there were leaks that reached War Minister Gen. Jirō Minami. He requested Gen. Sadao Araki to pacify the malcontents. Araki thereupon attempted to reason with Hashimoto and Chō, but they refused to abandon their scheme and Araki had them arrested by the Kempeitai—military police—on 17 October 1931. The punishments for this abortive coup were even milder than for the previous March Incident, as Gen. Minami publicly excused the plot as simply an excess of patriotic zeal. Hashimoto was sentenced to 20 days house arrest, Chō to 10 days and the other ringleaders were simply transferred.

Consequences
The October Incident, also known as the "Imperial Colors Incident", thus ended in apparent failure and resulted in the dissolution of the Sakurakai. However, the lightness of the punishments only encouraged more attempted military intervention in the government, cumulating with the February 26 Incident of 1936.

title: October incident


text:
Military Academy incident

The Military Academy incident (士官学校事件), also known as the November incident (十一月事件) was an attempted coup d'état that took place in the Empire of Japan in November 1934. It was one of a sequence of similar conspiracies for a "Shōwa Restoration" led by radical elements with the Imperial Japanese Army.

Background
The failed coup attempts in 1931 (the March Incident and the Imperial Colors Incident) by the Sakurakai, a secret society within the junior ranks of the Imperial Japanese Army officer corps promoting a vision of a militaristic totalitarian system as an alternative to the perceived corrupt party politics dominated democratic government, inspired similar plans by other groups within the military.

In 1934, a group of five Imperial Japanese Army Academy cadets led by two army officers belonging to the radical militarist Imperial Way Faction at the academy, troubled by the perceived loss of influence of their faction over the military following the dismissal of Army Minister Sadao Araki in January 1934, formulated their own plan for overthrowing the government. However, in early November 1934, Sato, one of the cadets, informed the government authorities about the plan and its Imperial Way Faction involvement.

Forewarned, Captain Tsuji Masanobu, company commander at the Army Academy, arranged the arrest of the principals by the Kempeitai on 20 November 1934, ending the possible coup d'état before it could even get started. For lack of evidence, the accused could not be convicted; but the five cadets were expelled from the academy in March 1935, and the two officers, Muranaka and Isobe were suspended for six months from duty in April 1935.

When the suspended officers Muranaka and Isobe later distributed pamphlets entitled "Remonstrance for the Restoration of Military Discipline" (otherwise known as "Views on the Housecleaning of the Army"), they were dismissed from the service outright in August 1935.

The Aizawa Incident
The Imperial Way Faction believed that Sato had been acting as a spy for Captain Tsuji all along, and that the whole affair was a trap laid by their rivals, the Tōseiha faction to discredit General Jinzaburō Masaki, the Inspector-General of Military Education, as the incident led to General Masaki's dismissal.

In retaliation, in what came to be known as the Aizawa Incident (相沢事件), an Imperial Way Faction officer, Lieutenant Colonel Saburo Aizawa, assassinated Mazaki's successor, Toseiha faction Major General Tetsuzan Nagata on 12 August 1935, cutting him down with his sword in his office. Nagata was posthumously promoted to lieutenant general, and Aizawa was executed by firing squad after a court martial held by the IJA 1st Division based in Tokyo. Army Minister Senjūrō Hayashi was also forced to resign over the affair.

Consequences
The Military Academy Incident and the Aizawa Incident were indicative of the increasing politicization and political polarization of the Japanese military, and an increasing tendency to resolve political differences through force. The lack of action within the military leadership to suppress these tendencies, and the powerlessness of the civilian elected government over the military were contributing factors that led to the subsequent February 26 Incident.

title: Military Academy incident


text: User talk:63.237.2.226

title: User talk:63.237.2.226


text:
Paul DiGaetano

Paul DiGaetano (born October 28, 1953) is the current Bergen County Republican Organization Chairman. DiGaetano also served in the New Jersey General Assembly representing the 36th Legislative District from 1986 – 1987 and again from 1992 – 2006. DiGaetano also served as a member of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Commission, the Legislative Service Commission and the New Jersey Commission on Science and Technology. DiGaetano originally represented Passaic, New Jersey, but moved to Nutley, New Jersey following his 1999 re-election (DiGaetano believed that, when the new legislative districts would be redrawn following the 2000 U.S. Census, Passaic would be split from District 36 and he wanted to ensure that he would keep his seat if it came to that). He served with John Kelly of Nutley for many years in the Assembly, but for his last two terms in office he served as part of a split ticket; Wood-Ridge, New Jersey mayor Paul Sarlo was elected to Kelly's seat in 2001 and after Sarlo moved to the State Senate Frederick Scalera of Nutley was elected in 2003 to replace him.

In 2005, DiGaetano did not run for re-election in the split 36th District, choosing instead to run for the Republican nomination for governor. DiGaetano came in a distant sixth in the primary election with 16,684 votes, well behind winner Doug Forrester who received 108,941. On Election Day, November 8, 2005, Democrat Frederick Scalera, who joined the Assembly in 2003, retained his seat and running mate Gary Schaer was victorious, picking up DiGaetano's open seat for the Democrats.

DiGaetano received a B.S. degree from the University of Notre Dame in Aerospace Engineering. He is President of J. DiGaetano and Sons Inc., a construction and development company.

New Jersey Assembly
During his legislative career, DiGaetano pushed many measures that served the public’s interest, such as the HMO right-to-sue legislation, mandatory health insurance coverage for women’s cervical cancer tests, lightening the tax burden on New Jersey’s working poor and cutting taxes more than fifty times. DiGaetano worked on legislation to create Urban Enterprise Zones, protect children from sexual predators, toughen rape penalties, reform binding arbitration, create New Jersey’s first ever cord blood resource center, secure funding to purchase enhanced testing equipment for newborn infants. As Assemblyman, he sponsored the Senior Gold Prescription Discount Program, authored the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001, sponsored the creation of a conservation trust fund to protect the New Jersey Meadowlands and Watershed, and authored the Brownfields Redevelopment Act.

Paul DiGaetano was a member of the Passaic City Council from 1981 – 1996, serving as its President from 1991 – 1993. He was the Assembly's Republican Leader from 2002 – 2003 and the Majority Leader from 1996 – 2001.

Bergen County GOP
In 2016 DiGaetano challenged incumbent Bergen County Republican Organization chairman Robert Yudin in the race for chair. DiGaetano cited recent Republican losses in county elections and popular Bergen County Sheriff Michael Saudino switching affiliation to the Bergen Democrats as major reasons for new leadership being necessary. DiGaetano also had support from the local Young Republicans chapter, with Paul offering to make several members leaders in his administration. DiGaetano won with a near landslide victory in June 2016.

2017 Senate Campaign
In February 2017 DiGaetano declared his candidacy for New Jersey Senate in the New Jersey's 40th legislative district after incumbent Senator Kevin J. O'Toole announced that he will not seek reelection. At its March 2017 convention, Bergen County Republicans selected DiGaetano as its nominee for Senate, with former District 34 Senator Norm Robertson and Christopher Phillips as nominees for General Assembly. DiGaetano's main opponent for the nomination is Kristin Corrado, the current Passaic County Clerk who is expected to receive backing from the county committee there.

DiGaetano confirmed that should he be elected he will remain as the Bergen County Republican Chairman.

District 36
Each of the forty districts in the New Jersey Legislature has one representative in the New Jersey Senate and two members in the New Jersey General Assembly. The other representatives from the 36th Legislative District for the 2004–2006 legislative session were:
 * Assemblyman Frederick Scalera, and
 * Senator Paul Sarlo

title: Paul DiGaetano


text:
Talk:List of battleships by country

combinging table cells
The british/uk section was divided into 4 for a good reason - it's too long when combined. Someone combined it and now someone else is dividing it again by using links which jump to different parts of the one list! How about we just redivide it (so it's like it was origianlly) and leave it at that? I see no point in dividing it in almost random ways. the sections are "great ships before around 1640", "ships of the line 1640-1860", metal steam ships 1860-1905" and "dreadnoughts". Each section then compares to the sections of all the other navies, and makes historical sense also. thanks. SpookyMulder 13:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

What's the point of this article? There's already a very good history section in battleship. Please not that the term "battleship" did not exist before the last decades of the 18th century, so talking about galleys and galleons though they were battleships is very misleading. If you want to get really narrow, anything before HMS Dreadnought is only a very tentative battleship.

Peter Isotalo 15:55, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The point I suppose is that there isn't any place for the names of the various battleships in the main battleship article.

As to the Swedish ships, I've got an article here somewhere that lists the names, dates, and details. It may take me a while to find it, I've got over 10,000 books and magazines in the basement. UrbanTerrorist 04:10, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Battleship term
As noted above, the term battleship is not appropriate when applied to sailing ships. Sail warships designed for battle line use should instead be referred to as ships of the line. While it is true that the term battleship derived from a shortening of the full term ship of the line of battle, it was not in use prior to the end of the 19th Century (right around when the HMS Dreadnought appeared). I propose that all appropriate articles be changed to reflect this. Joshbaumgartner 19:13, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

 * That is partially incorrect - during the late 19th century the term battleship was in general use. It usually covered a ship with 2 or 4 main guns that were turret mounted on the centerline, and an additional 8-16 medium size guns, and finally a larger number of small guns. The Dreadnought was unusual in that it was the first "All Big Gun" battleship in service, where the medium guns were suppressed in favour of more large guns. This enabled more accurate gunnery, as the ship's fire control officer only had to track splashes of two sizes of shells (the main gun shells, usually of 12" or larger, and the torpedo boat/destroyer battery, usually of 5" or 6"). It also enabled ships to fight at longer ranges, which made improvements in fire control a necessity, which made changes in armour (from side armour to deck armour to protect against plunging fire) necessary, etc. While the Dreadnought type was a tremendous improvement over the original battleship, pre-dreadnought battleships remained in service until after World War 2 in many navies. UrbanTerrorist 05:00, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Also, The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Edition defines "battleship" as "Any one of a class of warships of the largest size, carrying the greatest number of weapons and clad with the heaviest armor. Also called battlewagon." That definition seems to fit the inclusive one used on this page. --Columbia clipper (talk) 04:49, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Loath though I may be to resurrect a long-dead thread, I do have a problem with the structure of the page. How can we reasonably call ships that predated the Anglo-Dutch Wars "battleships"? It's a little hard to have a "line of battle ship" before the line of battle was devised. Parsecboy (talk) 18:45, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

 * Since it's been over a year and nobody has commented on this, I've gone ahead and cut out all of the pre-line of battle lists and done some general cleaning up. Parsecboy (talk) 18:02, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Further Divisions
The names list should be further subdivided. For example the Swedish ships listed are all "Coast Defense" battleships, or panserskip, not to be confused with the German Panzerschiffe which were a totally different concept. Some navies that used the panserskip concept were Denmark, Finland, Norway, and Sweden. UrbanTerrorist 05:00, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I wrote something related to this on Talk:Battleship. These ships aren't battleships and shouldn't be listed as such. Someone started calling them "coastal battleships", but like coastal defence ship states, that doesn't make them battleships. --Laisak 16:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * While the ships aren't classical battleships, the term "Coast Defense Battleship" was in common usage for years, and we can't ignore it, just as the term "Pocket Battleship" was in common use for years. That both terms are incorrect descriptions of the vessels and their intended combat role is mote - both types have been considered Battle Wagons of some sort for years, and that should be reflected here with a foot note explaining the difference. One considersation is that none of these "odd" vessels could have been capably fought by anything less than a battleship. UrbanTerrorist 20:32, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ha, tell that to Ajax, Exeter, and Achilles. Parsecboy (talk) 18:05, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of battleships by country