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User talk:Timeshifter

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Just another guy with a PC. See my Commons user page: commons:User:Timeshifter. The Signpost, Tech News, The Bugle, and Centralized discussion are transcluded on this page: User:Timeshifter/Newsletters.

User talk here is not archived. Old talk is deleted. '''Users are allowed to remove anything from their talk pages. See WP:TALK''' and other wikipedia guidelines/policies. Like Wikipedia articles over time, people change, and there is little point in referring to past stale arguments and discussions.

To keep the discussion in one thread some comments added here are moved to the user talk page of the author. I reply there. I also watchlist that talk page for awhile in order to note when the user there replies. Harassing comments are also sometimes moved off this talk page. Sometimes the original author is offended by their own harassing comments, and my reply, on their user talk page. They then remove both from their talk page. I guess the light from their own verbal reflection offends them. One can find removed comments by using the history link on a talk page. Inappropriately-applied warning templates, etc.. are also removed from this talk page. Sometimes I remove stuff from my talk page for no particular reason, or for many varied reasons. Removal of comments from my talk page implies nothing. Don't take it personally. Unless I have requested otherwise, feel free to leave new messages on my talk page.

Once again, help!!
I had an image from Flickr from a photographer I just dealt with. He made the mistake of changing his copyright license to a Creative Commons one--but not one we accept. I took his word for it that he removed copyright in favor of Creative Commons, but since I'd just uploaded two of his photos with a correct one we accept, it was my oversight that he made a mistake and I didn't check it. The result of this was that the photo was not accepted in Commons for upload. Fine. But now I can't get the damned thing to upload it now that the license is correct! How RUDE. I've been uploading photos for years- more than any other editor I know of on the en.wikipedia. It is for this photo:. How can I fix this? --Leahtwosaints (talk) 14:38, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

 * You have GOT to be the coolest Wikisloth with super-powers that I ever met!! For a Sloth, you sure move at a quick pace!! :) Do you wear a "super cape", I wonder? That would really complete the whole outfit and mystique.. I keep trying to think of things I could maybe do for you since you are such a blessing and a help...  Hmmm. Did you ever contact Roger Ebert before his untimely demise? Is there perhaps a photo of someone that I can search for on your behalf? Just say the words. I feel a great debt to you for your help over these years. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 12:00, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Boyd Bushman Entry Deleted
Could you believe the dark hearts won in deleting this entry? And now an article I started is also up for deletion by some nobody called LuckyLouie. --HafizHanif (talk) 21:24, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Timeshifter, would you be able to give your honest opinion regarding the deletion of Boyd's page? I think my suggestions at the discussion are fair and at least his memory as a scientist should be in wiki, regardless of the mention of any alien stuff. --HafizHanif (talk) 20:19, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Not sure if you or someone else is working on reintroducing this entry. I'm also not sure if you've come across this | list of patents referencing Bushman's 1996 patent #5542247.

The | sixth listed patent has two U.S. Airforce contracts; | F49620-98-C-0038 and | F49620-00-C-0005 with many independent source citations.

It is interesting how other deleted pages usually have a trail of information, but Boyd's has nothing. I didn't get to read what the final verdict was ( other than obvious deletion ). --HafizHanif (talk) 21:38, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Van Morrison song
I might have been buzzing through the disambig. page for the Van Morrison/Robbie Robertson song, "Caravan", seen here: Caravan (Van Morrison song) which they played during the filmed final concert "The Last Waltz" - if it's just my need for glasses please forgive me. Hopefully I'll have a computer soon. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 11:10, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

New discussion system
What you saw was Flow.
 * The WMF has been eliminating most of their talk pages (user pages and some major mainspace pages), so you're forced to use Flow if you want to contact them to discuss problems with their projects. A particular problem is that they switched over all official contacts points related to Flow itself! That is particular problem for discussing Flow bugs. (Writing about the bug *in* Flow triggers the problem!)
 * You've only seen the tip of the iceberg. The list of problems with Flow is 142 feet long. Copy-paste is broken. A simple revert destroyed my original comment. Problems with templates. History is a disaster. The reply-threading turns modest-size discussions into unreadable spaghetti. You can't delete your own comments, much less someone else's. (You "hide" it, which leaves a link for it on the board.) IMO the biggest issue is that Flow does not store an accurate stable copy of what you write! Flow can randomly rewrite your formatting codes and nowikis etc. The way Flow works is kind of like translating your text into Russian, then translating it from Russian back to English when someone views or edits it. Sometimes those bugs can mangle your entire post into garbage during the rewrite. In fact Flow preforms that round-trip translation every time you try to preview what you wrote. So you preview, return to editing your wikitext, and Flow has REWRITTEN your wikitext! It's like editing on quicksand. There's no "truetext", everything Flow shows you is an illusion created on the fly.
 * It seems the WMF still wants to eventually get Flow deployed, but the good news is that they've realized that there are serious objections here. They have been *trying* to improve their relations with the community ever since the superprotect incident, with limited success. Putting Flow on hold has been one of the successes. The current official policy is that no Flow pages will be deployed without local consensus requesting it. I think they are hoping the tiny wikis start accepting it, and that eventually all the 'obstructionist-change-averse editors' get dragged along into the wonderful future. BTW there's a doc page where "Admins" and the most "Experienced" editors are defined as the change-averse groups. Lols.
 * There used to be 7 Flow pages on EnWiki. Activity has dropped to zero on every board where Flow gets deployed. One board was the Flow testing board: it died and was never fixed after an admin tried testing admin tools on it. I had a pair of abandoned boards deleted at MFD. I have another abandoned board at MFD with unanimous deletes so far. I have an open RFC at a dead wikiproject to roll back Flow - I *think* its passing but running an RFC inside Flow is a disaster. We can't move the discussion posts down to a separate discussion area, it's almost impossible to tell who is replying to who, and it is difficult to figure out which posts are !votes. Anyway, assuming it passes, that will leave us with two dead Flow pages. It's possible that EnWiki will be Flow-free in a month or two. I need to contact some of the other language Wikis with Flow to see if they want to move forward with Flow or start rolling it back. Alsee (talk) 17:28, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

 * Thanks for all the info on Flow! I had to look up MFD. I see that it is Miscellany for deletion. Are there any wikis using LiquidThreads still? The WMF or the devs or whoever is in charge (I have no clue), take simple requests for improvement (such as watchlisting sections of talk pages) and then go crazy with complete rewrites of all the code. Same for the request for a WYSIWYG editor. I just wanted a simple WYSIWYG editor that did the simple stuff, and did it in article sections. But they went crazy and created this monster VE that edits the whole page, and tries to do everything the wikitext editor does and more. I just want VE lite for section editing. Bold, italic, links. --Timeshifter (talk) 13:01, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Invitation to chat about interactive maps
Hello, I’m Chris, a community liaison in the Discovery department at the Wikimedia Foundation. One of the projects we’re working on is to bring interactive maps to Wikipedia. If you are interested, I’d like to have an informal conversation with you about your work with WikiProject Maps, and the conventions you all have created. I'd like to learn more about your work and how that might influence the design of interactive maps.

Please let me know of some good times to chat via email and I can setup a meeting for us. I can be reached at ckoerner@wikimedia.org.

If you’re not interested, that’s fine. I would appreciate any direction to other editors that have been involved and might be interested.

Have a good day, CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 20:46, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Need your help with this missing Wikipedian-
Hi, I don't know if there is a procedure to let people know when an editor quits to place a semi-retired placard on their talk page. In the case of Catfish Jim, one of my closest editing friends from the past, his talk page is looking like he's here, when it's just Admin and other bots that deposit info on timed intervals. To my knowledge, he hasn't been working since before I went into a coma three years ago. I think it's March 2012:. I'll leave this to you as an Admin. I'm only doing little edits and am still not healed so, if you don't do something with this, I hope you'll pass it to someone who will. Thanks. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 13:09, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

"420" collaboration
As a member of WikiProject Cannabis, you are invited to help organize the project's upcoming "420" collaboration, which is scheduled for April 2017. Yes, we're a few months away, but we're hoping to get the ball rolling by getting buy-in from experienced Wikipedia editors and seek help fleshing out some goals and ideas for a successful campaign. We also plan to conduct both on-wiki and offlline outreach so non-Wikipedias can also contribute. If you are interested in participating, please sign up and contribute to the ongoing discussions. All editors are welcome! --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:55, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Wishlist Survey & cross-wiki watchlist
Hi Timeshifter, You said that you might not see my reply on Meta, so I'll talk to you here. :) I'm on the Community Tech team, and we're still working on the cross-wiki watchlist. As you saw, the cross-wiki watchlist was one of the top requests on the 2015 Community Wishlist Survey, and our team is responsible for working on it. It's still an active project for us. It's held up right now by some changes that we need to make to the database, altering the really huge and scary revision tables. We have to wait for permission and help from the database administrator to make those changes. That's a delay, which is a pain, but once we get that done, we'll keep making progress on the cross-wiki watchlist.

There's another five top wishes from last year's wishlist that we shipped last year, and we're currently working on a few top requests from this year's wishlist -- rewriting Xtools, and warning people after there have been unsuccessful login attempts. I'd be happy to tell you more about our team or the Community Wishlist, if you're interested. Let me know. -- DannyH (WMF) (talk) 23:42, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Old editing toolbar (2006 version)
Hey, Timeshifter, I noticed your thread at VPT. The old toolbar that you posted a screenshot of: ...is the 2006 editing toolbar, and within the last week or so, it was retired by the WMF. I'm working on reintroducing it as a user-made script, if you want it back; if you want it, you can install it by adding the line (without

...to your common.js page. I'm hoping to get it introduced as an official gadget soon, but in the meantime, that should restore most of the functionality you're used to, I think. HTH, Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:10, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Double ping
An edit summary mention produces a separate ping so I got two pings for [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&oldid=prev&diff=904454161]. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:48, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry. :) -- Timeshifter (talk) 09:22, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Student revision help
Hi! I am a student editing the page Incarceration of Women in the United States. I saw that you are a main contributor to the Incarceration in the United States article, so I was wondering if you might look over my article and give me any suggestions on what more I could work on? I have mostly focused my attention on the healthcare section, but I'm hoping to submit the entire thing for good article status, so I'd appreciate any feedback you have. Please feel free to post on my talk page! Thanks, Nicolekoonce (talk) 19:19, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

question re your ideas on editors and various items
hi. I just happened upon one of your own userboxes. i would like to try to help out. particularly with issues of editor responses, admin conduct. could you please let me know where I can help out? if you reply here, please ping me. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 16:07, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Updating Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates
I have created Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates/doc with instructions for updating Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates. Please advise if you notice any errors.

I have included the VBA code of a Word macro to automate the later stages of the update. This should work just as well for Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country. I tried to create a macro to automate the whole process, but either the program or my computer does not like large macros. Dudley Miles (talk) 13:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

 * . Thanks. Looks good. I adjusted and clarified a few things. Check history for explanations. I don't have MS Word. So I can't help there. I use freeware LibreOffice. Of that free office suite I only use Calc. And I am a beginner with it. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:02, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help. The explanation in the doc is much clearer after your changes. Dudley Miles (talk) 17:06, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Separate but related questions
First I noticed that you undid the revision at Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country/styles.css however it doesn't seem you have implemented the changes from User:Timeshifter/Sandbox119 there yet so the table is now no longer scrolling with sticky headers. Are you still planning to re-add those features? If yes is there a reason you're waiting to implement them?Secondly, are you looking to create a table stylesheet that can be used to implement any of these features more generally, it seems to me this might be a good idea going forward if you are aware of any feature requests that have or are likely to recur.Apologies if this has been asked and answered elsewhere I don't really have time to read through any of those discussions in full at the moment; thanks for your help.  𝒬 𝔔  00:12, 7 September 2020 (UTC) Update: OK I just noticed the link to Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates on the help talk page; I presume then that this supersedes Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country? If so it should probably be redirected to the new table. Second question still stands; although as I mentioned earlier it will have to be a bit before I can start on it, thanks.  𝒬 𝔔  00:44, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

 * . This has been moving very fast. There are now 3 table templates and 2 style sheets.
 * 2 of the table templates are tables that are on this article page:
 * COVID-19 pandemic by country and territory
 * Those 2 tables use the same style sheet:
 * Template:COVID-19 pandemic data/styles.css

 * The CSS style sheet you were working on is this one:
 * Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country/styles.css
 * It is now only used for this table template:
 * Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country
 * That table template is in this article:
 * COVID-19 pandemic death rates by country
 * That table is not supposed to be a scrollable table.
 * I just updated some of the history here:
 * User:Timeshifter/Sandbox119
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 01:10, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Thanks for clearing that up. Well if things are moving fast I probably won't be much help. I may drop in briefly every now and then for the next 2-3 weeks but substantive projects will have to wait until towards the end of the month at least. So I'm about to log-out in a few minutes but if you hit me with a ping I'll see it sooner or later.  𝒬 𝔔  01:11, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

 * . I am assuming that the non-scrollable table template does not need the changes you made to it. Since those changes assumed it was a scrollable table. So I will revert your changes. Feel free to add back whatever you think is useful for a non-scrollable table. I haven't been working on that article and its template. Feel free to edit its CSS style sheet now that you know it is for a non-scrollable table.

 * I have been concentrating on the scrollable tables. Feel free to work on the CSS for those scrollable tables. I am a newb at CSS. I wish there was a collapse button to collapse the scrollable tables back to scrollbox size after they have been fully expanded by the "show all" button. --Timeshifter (talk) 01:27, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Belatedly ✅ please see Template:COVID-19 pandemic data. Let me know if there are any issues or if there are any other templates you would like this feature added to.Sorry for the delay, had a lot more IRL stuff to attend to than I anticipated. If I do get a bit of extra time I was planning on setting up a workspace on testWP so we can try to work on some additional css features of general applicability, but I do ask for your patience. I'm already a bit overcommitted to stuff here considering the volunteer time I have available.  𝒬 𝔔  16:16, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

(unindent). Thanks ! There is a problem though. The collapse button only works on the template page. I just noticed this concerning "Show all" too. It works fine on the template pages. But when the 3 templates are together on COVID-19 pandemic by country and territory the buttons only work on the top template. So I guess the classes below are not specific enough. I copied the wikitext below from your recent addition to Template:COVID-19 pandemic data. I added the collapse part of the above wikitext to: It works great on the template pages. But in the article with the 3 templates clicking any of the "show all" buttons in any table other than the top one does nothing. So the collapse buttons do not show up on the lower tables. Since they don't expand.
 * Template:COVID-19 pandemic death rates
 * Template:Monthly cumulative COVID-19 death totals by country

I created a sandbox just for you where you can experiment: --Timeshifter (talk) 23:31, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
 * User:Timeshifter/Sandbox126

 * I asked for help here:
 * Wikipedia talk:TemplateStyles
 * In the section currently titled: "Need help with multiple templated tables on the same page using the same styles.css"
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 06:58, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Just noting for the benefit of page watchers that I have given a more detailed explanation over at VPT.  𝒬 𝔔  23:03, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Note: See further discussion here: Template talk:Monthly cumulative COVID-19 death totals by country.

Userboxes changes
Hey, sorry you didn't like the changes to your user boxes. I was confronted with some particularly anally retentive editors when I first started editing, and they advised me that the rules and guidelines applied to all of Wikipedia, not just the articles. So, I guess that is what gave me the impression I should make the changes, but I'm just as happy to leave them the way you had them since you didn't like the changes because I'm not currently retaining my anus. LOL.😀 Huggums537 (talk) 02:22, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Global watchlist - Update 9
 Updates associated with DannyS712's Global watchlist script and the Global watchlist extension:

Hi everyone. As I noted in the last issue, I received a grant last year from the WMF to develop the global watchlist script into an extension. That extension has now been deployed on Meta. Visit m:Special:GlobalWatchlistSettings to get started.

That grant has ended, and I have requested another grant to continue development of the extension, and figured subscribers of the newsletter about the user script might be interested. You can see and comment on the grant request at m:Grants:Project/DannyS712/Continued work on GlobalWatchlist extension - if you support this, I hope you'll consider endorsing the request.

Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 00:28, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Global watchlist user script: About •  Updates •  Code Global watchlist extension: documentation

Wikitext is not ...
The use of HTML in wikitext is in fact HTML.

 * 1) Please stop edit warring over this. This is non-negotiable.
 * 2) John is in the right on this point. You must provide compliant HTML for WP:Accessibility.

Thanks. --Izno (talk) 20:09, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

 * . I believe you are mistaken. Mediawiki software converts everything it sees into what it puts on the page. The browser sees none of what is in the wikitext until Mediawiki converts it to HTML, CSS, JavaScript, etc..
 *  in the wikitext in the case of side-by-side tables and/or images contributes nothing to accessibility.
 * Side-by-side tables and/or images look exactly the same with or without  in the wikitext.
 * We can take this to Village pump (technical) if necessary for more info.
 * Screenreaders do not see wikitext. They only see what the Mediawiki software converts it too.
 * And side-by-side tables and/or images look exactly the same to the browser and screenreaders with or without  in the wikitext.
 * Your solution of using a gallery for images is fine too. --Timeshifter (talk) 20:39, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I am not mistaken. HTML text in wikitext passes straight through the parser as HTML (both Parser.php and Parsoid) in all cases (with some HTML causing additional changes to how the parser deals with the contained text; <pre> is a notable example). That is why we have an allowed list of HTML and CSS directly in the parser as part of Sanitizer.php: we do not want bad-faith actors to use HTML elements in malevolent ways.
 * Subsequently, to provide valid HTML per the HTML standard, <li> must be placed inside either <ol> or <ul>, whether in an actual HTML document or a MediaWiki wikitext document. Perhaps you did not understand the point that John was making.
 * (N.b. I am not speaking to wikitext as wikitext just to be clear e.g. * at the beginning of a line.)
 * Invalid HTML is usually, almost always, inaccessible HTML. Izno (talk) 20:51, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * If I may butt in: if y'all are talking about this edit vs. this one, then I can definitely see a difference, in both the HTML output and the rendered output of the page. Timeshifter's edit is missing the surrounding  in the browser HTML, and in the rendered output (at least in my browser), the images are placed closer to the left margin. So it seems that John and Izno are correct. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:04, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * . See my reply to Izno. Also, John like Izno was talking about inaccessibility problems, not the left margin. John and I discussed this elsewhere. And he did not show any inaccessibility problems. He just suspected there might be some. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:25, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The edit in question indeed. Izno (talk) 21:33, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * . As you said everything has to go through the parser, sanitizer, etc.. And in some cases the HTML is not allowed to be used. Some deprecated HTML for example. Some works. Some doesn't.
 * In the case of side-by-side tables I am not seeing any inaccessibility problem. See:
 * User:Timeshifter/Sandbox153
 * In this case  serves no purpose except to mess up the left margin. Someone complained about this elsewhere. Removing  fixes that problem, and it is more efficient code. Less to remember.
 * It allows tables to fit in narrower screens too. Since there is no left margin. Narrow your browser window on the sandbox page to see. The horizontal scrollbar shows up sooner on the lower set of side-by-side tables that have
 * What inaccessibility problem are you seeing? I see none when doing without  in this sandbox case.
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 21:19, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no. Bold text that indicates an argument on how your device provides you content isn't how accessibility works. "I like less code" also isn't how we make decisions where accessibility is relevant. Much less conformant HTML. If you personally cannot remember that list item elements must be inside o/ul elements, then you specifically should not revert an editor correcting that issue; if you want to fix any particular display that you do not like, you need to ask how to do that, not revert. In this case, if you want to "fix" the left margin, the way to fix that is to set  on the list item elements. Izno (talk) 21:33, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * . If you google  style=display:inline-table  you will see it used in many different ways. Many different ways without  . I already knew about
 * I also already knew how to fix the problem without it. So I fixed it. You have yet to show me why my fix is incorrect. As in how it is inaccessible. --Timeshifter (talk) 21:44, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * You are barking up a totally weird tree if you think my concern has anything remotely to do with CSS display. I am strictly concerned about outputting both valid and accessible HTML, for which you must include ol/ul elements.
 * Regarding accessibility, it's not about you. It is specifically in regard to screen readers. Izno (talk) 21:50, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * . In my first reply to you, I mentioned screenreaders. You have yet to show me a problem with accessibility. There are many cases in wikitext that don't use the same full HTML that one would use as a webmaster. Long ago I did my share of basic web pages on Tripod, Angelfire, Geocities, etc.. So I know the difference. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:00, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Indeed, What inaccessibility problem are you seeing? is precisely the wrong question when it comes to screen readers. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:55, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Some people use screenreaders even though they have perfect eyesight. Some developers for example. But I take your point, and I ask everybody: What accessibility problems are you claiming? If you don't have a screenreader how can you claim anything unless someone with a screenreader tells you something? Send them to User:Timeshifter/Sandbox153. Ask them if their screenreader detects any difference other than the left margin. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:06, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, first of all, it is not the responsibility of people who need accessibility aids to analyze a page for accessibility issues; it is our responsibility as editors (and as coders) to anticipate and address all such issues proactively. Second of all, look at this: : specifically errors 11 and 12 (further errors suppressed).  tags are invalid HTML when used the way they are. (Granted, there are a ton of other errors, too, but that doesn't mean it's okay for us to throw a bunch more onto the pile; an analogy to WP:OTHERSTUFF comes to mind.) As Izno points out, screen readers parse the HTML structure of a page to present it to their users, and any invalid HTML can cause problems for screen readers; thus, it is incumbent on us as editors to avoid invalid HTML wherever possible, because being proactive about avoiding accessibility issues is our responsibility as editors. We should not wait until a person who depends on a screen reader to complain; if they complain, we have already failed. I don't think "I like the margin padding better" is reasonable as an excuse to use invalid HTML, especially when the same effect can be accomplished with valid HTML, and "I think the HTML looks better" is certainly not a reasonable excuse. Do better. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 22:30, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I think you are making my case. There are 597 errors on that page. And additional warnings. HTML always has this problem. That is why we have transitional HTML versions, and so on. There will never be perfection.
 * Until we get someone with a screenreader to check out the sandbox (User:Timeshifter/Sandbox153), we are talking in circles. Mediawiki would be paralyzed if it held up everything until every single change in the mediawiki code was run by someone with a screenreader. And I have heard from someone with a screenreader who pointed out that a Mediawiki problem he experienced was annoying, but that the alternative was worse because it only helped him, but made things seriously worse for far more people. So everything is a balance. I find it annoying that you, John, and Izno are all going on strictly your suspicions, but without any evidence of a problem. I don't think there will be a problem. Screenreaders have no problem with basic tables with a single row of headers. As long as they have captions. That is what we have at User:Timeshifter/Sandbox153. See if you can round up someone with a screenreader. I will too. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:00, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, so this conversation is indeed going around in circles, but I think it's for different reasons than the ones you're thinking. You started out by saying there was no difference in the page between your version and JohnFromPinckney's version: Side-by-side tables and/or images look exactly the same with or without  in the wikitext. That is demonstrably false, though; there is both a visible difference and a difference in the HTML output. When this was pointed out to you, you said In this case  serves no purpose except to mess up the left margin. Someone complained about this elsewhere. Removing  fixes that problem. So, now, you're saying that you see the difference (in the left margin), and are remivng UL tags deliberately to fix that. But you see how that does not correspond with what you said forty minutes earlier and ten lines above, right? You're moving the goalposts. Now, you're demanding that a person who uses a screen reader come in and prove to you that there's an accessibility issue. But it should not take a blind person with a screenreader to tell you that you're messing up the page to convince you to stop inserting invalid HTML into a page. If there are hundreds of HTML problems with a page, we don't fix it by adding ten more. And honestly, the rules of how HTML works should be the baseline for any conversation about HTML in Wikipedia, even before we get into any questions about accessibility. The burden of proof is on you to justify why you're breaking the rules of HTML, and "I don't like the margin (which can be fixed with valid HTML)" and "it's nine bytes less code" does not cut it. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 00:42, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

(unindent). I have been clear all along that other than the left margin, the visible output is the same. Both versions are side by side tables that wrap. Someone else on the Help:Table talk page complained about the left margin. They did not like all the clutter of using    to get rid of the left margin. I experimented and noticed that getting rid of  altogether got rid of the left margin. '''This allowed side by side tables to work in narrower screens with simpler wikitext. It is all on the talk page.''' You keep thinking that HTML in wikitext has to follow all the rules of HTML elsewhere. According to this w3schools page  without   is malformed HTML. But Help:HTML in wikitext says: "Note that the closing tag is not strictly necessary for MediaWiki installations that output HTML 5 (such as Wikipedia)." There are many other examples of allowed HTML use in wikitext that does not follow the HTML rules elsewhere.--Timeshifter (talk) 02:00, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * ...Okay, I'm not sure how this isn't clear yet, but none of us are concerned about what the HTML looks like in the wikitext (i.e. in the edit box, when you're editing the page). Of course that doesn't have to be valid HTML, because it hasn't gone through the Mediawiki parser to become true HTML yet. What we're all talking about is the output HTML of the rendered page (i.e. what you see if you view the page like a reader would and right-click to view source). The edits you're making are causing errors in the output HTML, *not* the wikitext. As I explained on VPT, the example you give eith the  tag is not a relevant comparison. The reason the page says that the closing p tag is optional is because, when the wikitext containing an unclosed p tag goes through the Mediawiki parser, the parser will automatically close the p tag for you. So, while there is an unclosed p tag in the wikitext, there is no unclosed p tag in the output HTML, because the parser fixes it for you. But the parser does not fix orphaned li tags in the same way, so using li tags without an enclosing ul tag will lead to invalid HTML in the output HTML, not just the wikitext. You can see this in action here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=parse&page=User:Writ_Keeper/sandbox . Notice how, although there is an unclosed p tag in the wikitext, the p tag is properly closed, and thus valid HTML, in the HTML code that the parser outputs. They're not the same thing. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 02:20, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * There is lots of other stuff that ends up in the output HTML that is not perfect HTML. Deprecated HTML, etc.. Others in the VPT thread have pointed out various examples. As I have said several times, if it doesn't effect anything then it doesn't matter. You have yet to show that this lack of  here effects anything in a negative way. --Timeshifter (talk) 02:30, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Both JAWS and NVDA detect the version with ul as containing HTML lists but do not detect the HTML lists in the version without ul. Please do not use the latter version. Also, screen readers don't normally detect margins. Graham 87 02:42, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks Graham. I am confused though since technically there are no lists at all in either section. There are just 2 side by side tables in each of the 2 sections.
 * But no problem. We no longer need that method that uses the list HTML of li and ul.
 * isaacl found a simpler solution that only uses divs. It is elegant, legal, and simpler. I pasted it in as a third section on that sandbox page:
 * User:Timeshifter/Sandbox153
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 02:56, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Sounds good re divs. Technically there are lists in the section that contains ul ... that is exactly what the ul tag does; it creates an unordered list. Whether it's *semantically* appropriate is another thing entirely ... but a list should be marked up properly in any case. Graham 87 03:02, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

(unindent). Graham. So your screen readers read the divs option OK at sandbox 153? Or below? I pasted it below so that others reading this thread can check it out too.

Everybody: Narrow your browser screen to see the tables wrap (one drop below the other). Works in mobile view too. --Timeshifter (talk) 03:19, 16 June 2021 (UTC) --Timeshifter (talk) 03:19, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, it works fine. Graham 87 03:33, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

New link for the table section
Hi! Sorry if I'm bothering you. I am new to Wikipedia and wanted to contribute to the site. I noticed that the external links at the bottom of the table help page contains webpages that allows you to make tables only from inputting data directly into the website. I was wondering if it was Ok for me to add a link to a webpage that makes tables that allows user to upload excel files and convert it to the wiki format and vice versa. Thanks! --Rangusangus (talk) 17:12, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

 * . What is the link? I will have a look at it. It might also be posted here:
 * Commons:Chart and graph resources: Chart and graph resources at Commons
 * Commons:Convert tables and charts to wiki code or image files: includes information on converting table markup.
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 21:33, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to keep you waiting! I found the website here: http://www.excel2wiki.com/ Looks like it was originally excel2wiki.net but was changed to the current one Rangusangus (talk) 03:15, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

 * . See: Help:Table
 * It links to the:
 * Copy & Paste Excel-to-Wiki converter.
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 06:09, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

The Copy & Paste Excel-to-Wiki converter. and the other one at Help:Table are different as they only supports ctrl + c/v to paste the table and the the other (www.excel2wiki.com) supports uploading excel files directly on the website. --Rangusangus (talk) 08:57, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

 * . Have you used this converter? Does it work?
 * Also, I noticed that the page loads very slowly. And it doesn't scroll vertically. My taskbar covers up the last line of the page:
 * "For any problems, contact me at nguye586@purdue.edu"
 * I can only see it if I lower my font size.
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 18:41, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

I have used this converter before and can confirm that it works. Personally, I find it more convenient than the other converters, especially for larger tables as it requires a file upload than copy pasting. It also has options for single quote and double quote tables.
 * I managed to contact them and they said the scroll button should be fixed now.
 * For the loading problems, I don't have a problem on my end so it might be a geographical issue where the webpage is hosted.
 * --Rangusangus (talk) 14:13, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

 * It takes forever to load. Now it is cut off at the top.
 * I looked at the HTML page source.
 * I suggest you contact them, and tell them that maybe they should remove the style sheet and class="centered". Also remove the script at the bottom.
 * Then it will be a normal plain web page that fits to the screen.--Timeshifter (talk) 18:15, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Can you take a look at the website now? They said the problem should have been fixed. Loading times are still normal for me. --Rangusangus (talk) 04:43, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

 * It no longer is messed up. But it takes 20 seconds to load. Please ask them to remove as much external styling and scripting as possible. Try using inline styling instead. It is just a simple web page, and shouldn't take 20 seconds to load. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:46, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

They said there were a minimal amount of external styling and scripting and there was nothing too fancy.
 * I tried to test the website on 2 speed checking website and the average load time was 0.5 seconds. https://imgur.com/a/ilrc8Ub
 * Can you try to access the website using this link instead? https://www.excel2wiki.com/
 * If the issue still persists, could you check the speed of the website using online speed checker tools to see if its a website issue or a local issue.
 * On my end the website is working fine. I will forward an email to them again if its still not working on your end.

--Rangusangus (talk) 09:39, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

 * . It is the same 20 seconds in Firefox. Edge is fast. Half a second.
 * This is out of my league. Maybe ask for help at toolforge.com
 * That is the domain for this other excel2wiki tool:
 * https://excel2wiki.toolforge.org
 * toolforge.com redirects to here:
 * https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Portal:Toolforge
 * Maybe host the tool there. Or get some help from there.
 * --Timeshifter (talk) 11:49, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict...please fill out my survey?
Hello :) I am writing my MA dissertation on Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict, and I noticed that you have contributed to those pages. My dissertation will look at the process of collaborative knowledge production on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the effect it has on bias in the articles. This will involve understanding the profiles and motivations of editors, contention/controversy and dispute resolution in the talk pages, and bias in the final article. For more information, you can check out my meta-wiki research page or my user page, where I will be posting my findings when I am done. I would greatly appreciate if you could take 5 minutes to fill out this quick survey before 8 August 2021.

Participation in this survey is entirely voluntary and anonymous. There are no foreseeable risks nor benefits to you associated with this project. Thanks so much,

Sarah Sanbar

Sarabnas I'm researching Wikipedia Questions? 11:01, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Article help
Howdy Timeshifter,

I really appreciate the hard work you've out in to US drug overdose death rates and totals over time. It's a great article. One thing I would like to comment about: some passages are a bit informal.

For example: "Around 100,300 died in the 12 month period ending April 30, 2021.[4] That's 275 a day."

Would you agree that this declarative "That's 275 a day" seems a bit informal? Would it bother you if I changed the lead to something like "Around 100,300 people died in the 12 month period ending April 30, 2021, at a rate of 275 deaths per day.[4]"? I don't want to ask you to do anything because I know you're such a busy contributor.

Regardless, Happy New Year! -- Hunan201p (talk) 22:30, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

 * . Thanks. Either way sounds fine by me. Feel free to change it. Let's keep further article related discussion on the article talk page. --Timeshifter (talk) 00:20, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Template:2021 monthly cumulative COVID-19 death totals by country
Hi, Timeshifter, the template you created Template:2021 monthly cumulative COVID-19 death totals by country, is no longer being used anywhere on any article or somewhere related to COVID-19. Before I nominate it for deletion, there are two other 2021 templates that you also created, Template:2021 first half. Monthly cumulative COVID-19 death totals by country and Template:2021 2nd half. Monthly cumulative COVID-19 death totals by country. Did the first and second half templates replace the template in question and is no longer needed? Or does it still have some benefit in remaining? --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:15, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
 * . I just changed its name to User:Timeshifter/Sandbox176. It is referenced in some important technical discussions concerning scrollable tables with sticky headers. Both row and column sticky headers. Narrow your browser window to see what I mean.
 * So I moved it to user space to avoid problems. --Timeshifter (talk) 01:19, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for your efforts

 * . Thanks for the barnstars! --Timeshifter (talk) 03:43, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Timeshifter hi. Question.
I am hoping I am doing this correctly. I saw your comments on Raw Story and agree with them.I am sorry but I do not have an account and hope this is the correct place to respond. I will also answer you on the other page.

Can you PLEASE --- whenever you have time take a look at Palmer Report? There has been a Wikipedia attack from some republican editors. They are a political site -- a good one and I am a fan.

For months (years) scores of people have been pleading with the editors there to take the "hyper partisan, fake news website" out of the header. It is not accurate. It was put there by the same person who muddied up Raw story -- a republican. I along with dozens -- literally dozens of people protested. We felt it was an attack, a vicious one. The response was always send some reliable sources to counter it.

Only nobody ever used the term "hyper-partisan, fake news website" in the first place. I spent four hours trying to find a source and asked several times. There are some obscure republican sources. They never used, to the best of my knowledge any of those terms.

They also locked the page when people tried to change it and called it vandalism. But everyone I saw came in good faith. The Palmer Report is not fake news and is very much like Raw Story. I had a source -- Brian Williams from MSNBC did a segment several tears ago and used information from their site. I was told that was not interesting enough to put on the site and then they ignored me and all the others. You an easily see this through old Talk pages because there are over a dozen complaints.

I hope you are not upset that I posted such a long post but I think what is happening makes Wiki look very bad and I liked what you said on the raw story site. I do not want to name the person less it be thought of as a verbal attack but you can see all this quite easily. Please if you can do anything, please research this and please look seriously at the "hyperpartisan, fake news" entry. Because that is not neutral.

Thank you, 2600:6C65:7E7F:B93E:AD3C:1976:2DA8:EAB2 (talk) 00:33, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) Norah

 * Hi Norah. I don't have the time, health, and energy nowadays for much Wikipedia activity. You will get a lot farther if you log in with a user name. You are still anonymous. You can create an account with just a user name and password. Email address is optional, and is not public. Useful for password resets. It can be a secondary throwaway email address. Gmail can be set to forward to another email address. Even another Gmail address. --Timeshifter (talk) 00:59, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I am sorry about your health issues. I will not bore you with a long reply but I have tried in the past as have others and nothing worked. Was delighted to see how several of you fixed Raw Story who I also like. But I am completely unaware of how to edit on Wiki and also have some (minor) health issues. But thanks! At least you care and that counts for a lot. I hope your health situation improves and thank you so much for answering.
 * #### Norah 2600:6C65:7E7F:B93E:AD3C:1976:2DA8:EAB2 (talk) 04:16, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Editing news 2023 #1
Read this in another language • Subscription list for this newsletter

This newsletter includes two key updates about the Editing team's work:

 * 1) The Editing team will finish adding new features to the Talk pages project and deploy it.
 * 2) They are beginning a new project, Edit check.

Talk pages project

The Editing team is nearly finished with this first phase of the Talk pages project. Nearly all new features are available now in the Beta Feature for.

It will show information about how active a discussion is, such as the date of the most recent comment. There will soon be a new "" button. You will be able to turn them off at Special:Preferences. Please tell them what you think.

An A/B test for on the mobile site has finished. Editors were more successful with. The Editing team is enabling these features for all editors on the mobile site.

New Project: Edit Check

The Editing team is beginning a project to help new editors of Wikipedia. It will help people identify some problems before they click "". The first tool will encourage people to add references when they add new content. Please watch that page for more information. You can join a conference call on 3 March 2023 to learn more.

–Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:19, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Global xwiki watchlist
Hello! Was looking into some of the history of and proposals for a global watchlist, and saw quite a few comments on it by you in the past. Is there a current solution or commonly accepted tooling for this purpose? Thanks! Top5a (talk) 06:49, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * . I don't know. I haven't been keeping up with it. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * OK! Thank you for the rapid reply!  Cheers -- Top5a (talk) 08:05, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Some stroopwafels for you!

 * Thanks! --Timeshifter (talk) 03:10, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Scripts++ Newsletter – Issue 24
 Hello everyone, and welcome to the 24th issue of the Wikipedia Scripts++ Newsletter, covering all our favorite new and updated user scripts since. Uh-huh, we're finally covering the good ones among the rest! Aren't you excited? Remember to include a link in double brackets to the script's .js page when you install the script, so that we can see who uses the script in WhatLinksHere! The ScriptInstaller gadget automatically does this. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:00, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Got anything good? Tell us about your new, improved, old, or messed-up script here!

Cscr-featured.svg Featured script

 * Making user scripts load faster by SD0001 is this month's featured script, which caches userscripts every day to eliminate the overhead caused by force-downloading the newest version of scripts every time you open a Wikipedia page. Despite being released in April 2021, our best script scouters have failed to locate it due to its omission from the US of L. For security reasons, the script only supports loading JavaScript pages.

Farm-Fresh error go.png Newly maintained scripts
After earthly attempts at improving the original have failed...
 * Aaron Liu has created What redirects here from Guarapiranga/WhatRedirectsHere; their fork includes support for every MediaWiki wiki, corrected link positions, an access key, and some rudimentary translation.
 * Ahecht has created a fork of SiBr4/TemplateSearch, which adds the "TP:" shortcut for "Template:" in the search box, and updated it to be compatible with Vector 2022.
 * AquilaFasciata/goToTopFast is a much faster fork of the classic goToTop script that also adds compatibility for Minerva and Vector 2022.
 * Mesidast/Tidy citations is a fork of Meteor sandwich yum/Tidy citations is a fork of Waldyrious/formatcitations. It configurably harmonizes whitespace and cleans up parameters in citation templates, descriptive edit summary included.

Ambox important.svg Improve a script
Unfortunately, this section has remained nearly identical. Help us out here!
 * Many of our favorite scripts such as Fred Gandt/userResourceManager, Guarapiranga/search-shortcuts and Bradv/Superlinks haven't been updated for Vector 2022. You could be the one to change that!
 * Elominius/media timer works, but its UI looks alien. Someone could improve it...
 * To a lesser extent, the same goes for PrimeHunter/Search sort. I wish someone would integrate the sorts into the sort menu instead of adding 11 portlet links.
 * We want...
 * ...a mark-as-read button and watchlist notices support for Aaron Liu/Watchlyst Greybar Unsin
 * ...a tool to automatically fix CAT:BROKENREFs, preferably a fork/addition to TheJJJunk/ARA
 * ...a fix/fork of DannyS712/SectionRemover to make it work

Ambox clock yellow.svg Requested scripts

 * A simple script to second or archive proposed deletions
 * A script to auto-expand V22 ToC sections like this demo
 * A WP:3O response tool that can automatically remove the relevant request from the 3O dashboard
 * A byte filter to be split from Nux/LongTableFilters
 * ...and many more, all available at User scripts/Requests

Gnome-colors-list-add.svg New scripts

 * DannyS712/AbuseFilterMessageLinks add links to the "warn" and "disallow" messages in edit filters.
 * Diegodlh/Web2Cit/script adds an option to use Web2Cit (which WP:ProveIt also uses) instead of Citoid to generate citations in the Visual Editor.
 * Dragoniez/SuppressEnterInForm stops you from accidentally submitting anything due to pressing enter while in the smaller box, and works on almost anything... except the InputBox element itself, used in subscription lists and the Signpost Crossword! Oh, the humanity!
 * CopyVio detector, Adiutor.pngǵu/Adiutor (pictured) provides a nice, integrated interface to do some twinkley tasks such as copyvio detection, CSD tagging, and viewing the most recent diff.
 * Eejit43's redirect-helper script demo.png43 has quite the aesthetically pleasing scripts, all made in TypeScript.
 * /afcrc-helper is a replacement for the unmaintained Enterprisey/AFCRHS and processes Redirects for Creation and Categories for Creation requests.
 * /ajax-undo stops the "undo" button from taking you to another page while providing a text box to provide a reason for the revert.
 * /redirect-helper (pictured) adds a much better interface for editing and redirects, including categorization, for which valid categories are dictated by /redirect-helper.json.
 * /rmtr-helper helps process technical requested moves without being able to actually move them.
 * User Info Popup screenshot 1.jpg2/UserInfoPopup (pictured) adds a flyout after the watchlist star on userspace pages that displays the common information you might use about a user.
 * Jeeputer/editCounter, under userspace, adds a portlet link to count your edits by namespace, put them in a table, and put that table in a hardcoded subpage, all in the background.
 * Hilst/Scripts/sectionLinks converts all section links to use the § sign, which are known to be preferred over the ugly # by 99% of the devils I've met.
 * Moonythedwarf/extra-unreliable highlights phrases commonly used in spammed and POV'd paragraphs.
 * FormattedEditRequest-in-work.pngDungKhongDinhDanh/FormattedEditRequest (pictured) generates a wikitext-formatted diff view of any changes you've made that you can copy and paste anywhere.
 * PrimeHunter/Category source.js adds portlet links to tell you where a category for an article comes from and supports those from template transclusions.
 * Qwerfjkl/massCFD creates mass WP:CfD nominations.
 * Rublov/refspace highlights footnote spacing errors in red.
 * Sophivorus's MiniEdit adds some nice, li'l buttons next to paragraphs to edit their wikitext with a minimal interface.

Edit-listings

 * Dragoniez/ToollinkTweaks adds more and customizable links next to users in page history, logs, watchlist, recent changes, etc.
 * Firefly/more-block-info optimizes the display of rangeblocks in contribution pages. Doesn't work outside the English locale of any wiki, unfortunately.
 * Ingenuity/AbuseFilterContribs adds the edit filters that an edit tripped (if any) to a user's contributions page.
 * Nardog/ExamineMore makes it so the paging at Special:AbuseFilter/examine actually works, pending a fix to.
 * NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh/AjaxLoader makes paging links (e.g. older 50, 500, newest) load without refreshing and makes you realize how slow your internet actually is.

Appearance-ricing

 * Ahecht/RedirectID adds the redirect target to all redirects. For all the WP:NAVPOPS haters. (Do these exist?)
 * Dragoniez/MarkBLockedGlobal: Remember the "strike blocked usernames" gadget? Now you can use a red, dotted line to highlight rangeblocks and global locks!
 * GhostInTheMachine/GraphicReplyLink replaces the [ ] link with 💬, which is some sort of rainy cloud I guess?
 * En.WP VPP Screen Shot 2024-01-13 with custom CSS.pngey/common (pictured) has some styles to overhaul your Vector 2022 experience. It reduces padding everywhere, and makes the top bar animation faster.
 * Aaron Liu/V22 is a fork that narrows the sidebars instead of upheaving them, reverts the January 2024 dropdown changes, and restores the old page-link color for links that don't go outside the current wiki.
 * Nardog: SmartDiff is a spiritual successor to Enterprisey/fancy-diffs. It makes the page title part of links in diffs clickable, along with template and parser function calls. Unnamed parameters can be configured per template to also be linked. All links are styled based on the normal CSS classes of rendered links.
 * Phlsph7/ClassicalTOC (Vector 2022) reinserts the inline table of contents to pages under Vector 2022.
 * For the paranoid: Rublov/anonymize replaces your username at the top of the screen with the generic "User page" text. Remember, it is your duty to persuade everyone that editing is an honor.
 * Sideswipe9th/Vector 2022 Floating Tools Menu moves the Page Tools menu to the left and makes it float along with the table of contents.
 * Sm8ps/SectionEditing makes pressing Tab toggle the visibility of the tiny [ ] links next to section headings.. Not a great name, eh?
 * The wub/tocExpandAll adds a button on top of the floating ToC to expand or collapse subheadings.

Permissions required!

 * Ahecht/potd-helper: A script to post the picture of the day. A powerful upgrade for your mop.
 * Selective Rollback dialog.pngniez
 * /AjaxBlock provides a dialog box for easy input of reasons while blocking users.
 * /Selective Rollback (pictured) provides a dialog box to customize rollback edit summaries and does them without reloading the page. Seriously, why doesn't MediaWiki already do this?
 * Theleekycauldron/DYK promoter automates (nearly) all the work needed to post a DYK hook.

QOL shortcuts

 * BrandonXLF/SVGEditor lets you edit any file that is an SVG, straight from the file page.
 * DanCherek/UAABotRemover adds a portlet link to enable a removal shortcut of faulty reports from Usernames for administrator attention.
 * DreamRimmer/BlankUserPage helps you destroy webhost-ers' hopes and dreams with a user-friendly dialog box.
 * ESanders (WMF)/commentlinks.js adds a "link" button right after the "reply" button while the WMF struggles to reach feature parity with Convenient Discussions.
 * Isaacl/copy-comment-link-to-clipboard does exactly what you'd think it does, but in Wikitext.
 * FenrisAureus/SimpleStatus adds a shortcut at the top to edit your /Status subpage while providing a pre-made template.
 * Fred Gandt/addCloneClearButtonAboveScributoConsole: What a mouthful! Yet all it does (no offense) is add another button on top of the Lua module debug console.
 * Guarapiranga/GlobalWatchlistLink adds a link to metawiki:Special:GlobalWatchlist next to the normal watchlist.
 * Nardog
 * PasteToCommons adds a paste handler to upload the pasted image to Wikimedia Commons.
 * Unpipe tries to detect violations of WP:NOPIPE and fix them as much as possible.
 * Ohconfucius/tometricunits automatically adds unit conversions of imperial units in brackets after their uses per MOS:UNITS.
 * Suntooooth
 * /flickrsearch adds a portlet link to search for uploadable flickr images about the subject.
 * /randomincategory adds a portlet link when on Category pages to go to a random page in the current category.
 * Vghfr/EasyTemplates adds a portlet link to automatically insert some of the most common inline fix templates.

Yes, we're just doing 'em as we go now. Thanks for reading through this looong issue, if you did! I'm sure this'll send a record for the longest issue ev-ah. You may need to wait even longer for the last issue, as our reserve of old-y and goodie scripts have ran out... We encourage you to try and do some of the requests or improvement tasks. See you in Summer, hopefully!

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Discuss this issue MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:37, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Force line break between footnotes
Dear Timeshifter, I have seen you answered a question about line break. I have a similar problem and need help. I'm from the german Wikipedia and less familiar with the english one. Now I caused trouble: I reworked this article: Digital Cleanup Day. It was written in a very confusing and promotional way, but to save at least something of the original authors work, I wanted to keep at least his great source work. The problem: Wikipedia does not allow line break between footnotes (for example after the word „France“ in this article) Can you force it to break the line? I hope, you can help or you know someone who can. All solutions are welcome, at worst reducing the footnotes, because right now it looks like sh**t. Thank you very much! Christian Thorwest (talk) 00:51, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * . I don't understand what you are asking. I suggest asking on the talk page of the article. Also, on the Help:Desk. --Timeshifter (talk) 01:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I asked the Help:Desk. Sorry for the confusion. I meant line break between superscripts, not footnotes. Christian Thorwest (talk) 01:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – July 2024
News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2024).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Elli · HouseBlaster · Pickersgill-Cunliffe
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Brianga · De728631 · Georgewilliamherbert · Hyacinth (deceased) · ProveIt · The Night Watch

Technical news
 * Local administrators can now add new links to the bottom of the site Tools menu without using JavaScript. Documentation is available on MediaWiki.

Miscellaneous
 * The Community Wishlist is re-opening on 15 July 2024. Read more

Discuss this newsletter

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:59, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

title: User talk:Timeshifter


text:
Markkula Center for Applied Ethics

The Markkula Center for Applied Ethics is a department at Jesuit Santa Clara University. It was created by Manuel Velasquez, a faculty member in the School of Business, and funded by early Apple Inc. investor Mike Markkula and his wife, Linda Markkula.

The Center offers programs in ten major fields of ethics.

Bioethics
The Center partners with area hospitals and hospices, focusing on clinical ethics to develop policies on issues such as organ donation after cardiac death and artificial nutrition and hydration. Partner hospitals also provide internship opportunities in healthcare for undergraduates. The Center's bioethics research focuses on "Medical Decision Making for Publicly Conserved and Unrepresented Patients," "Culturally Competent Care," and "Pandemic Ethics," among other topics.

Business Ethics
The Business and Organizational Ethics Partnership brings together business executives and business ethics scholars from Santa Clara University and other Bay Area institutions. The partnership is a forum to develop the creation of ethical organizational cultures. The Markkula Center for Applied Ethics also offers programs on assessing the ethical culture of their organization for boards of directors.

Campus Ethics
Santa Clara University hosts over 70 faculty members specializing in Campus Ethics across various disciplines, from literature to engineering. The Markkula Center for Applied Ethics provides Hackworth Grants for faculty and students researching on applied ethics. Additionally, it offers Hackworth Fellowships for students keen on developing ethics programs for their peers. Through the Campus Ethics program, they arrange presentations on applied ethics in diverse fields like technology, diversity, immigration, and law.

Government Ethics
The focus on Government Ethics includes conflicts of interest, gifts and bribes, cronyism, lobbying, transparency, and the personal lives of public officials. The Center's Ethics Roundtable enables locally elected officials such as mayors, council people, county supervisors, and members of special districts to meet quarterly to discuss how these issues play out in their work.

Internet Ethics
With a special focus on privacy, Internet Ethics offers presentations and teaching modules on such topics as data, social media, the 'right to be forgotten,' cybersecurity, ethics in video games, search engines, and privacy by design.

Journalism & Media Ethics
The Journalism & Media Ethics focus area addresses the ethical implications of how journalistic 'gatekeeping' has changed in a digital era. It collaborates with journalists, editors, and technologists to help members of the public engage with journalists and journalists equip themselves with in-depth knowledge on complex issues they cover. It also assists stakeholders across the digital ecosystem in defusing the rapid spread of misinformation and disinformation that frequently disguises itself as news.

Leadership Ethics
The Leadership Ethics focus of the center collaborates with businesses, nonprofits, governments, and other organizations to analyze real-world issues in leadership ethics. Its goal is to develop programs and tools that address these issues effectively.

Religious and Catholic Ethics
The ethics center in a Jesuit university has a special interest in the role of religion in ethics and the formation of moral character. They offer dialogue, research, and curriculum across a wide range of religious traditions.

Technology Ethics
The Technology Ethics focus area examines issues in the ethics of emerging technologies, providing teaching resources for universities and corporations, and working with organizations such as the Partnership on AI. Particular areas of focus include AI ethics, space ethics, ethics of human enhancement and transhumanism, and global catastrophic and existential risk.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Markkula Center for Applied Ethics


text: User talk:69.235.33.193

title: User talk:69.235.33.193


text:
Indian Air Force ranks and insignia

The Indian Air Force (IAF), the aerial component of the Indian Armed Forces follows a certain hierarchy of rank designations and insignia derived from the erstwhile Royal Indian Air Force (RIAF).

1947-1950
Upon the establishment of establishment of India's independence in 1947, the country became a dominion within the British Commonwealth of Nations; nevertheless, the armed forces, namely, the British Indian Army (BIA), the Royal Indian Navy (RIN) and the Royal Indian Air Force (RIAF) - under the helm of King George VI as the Commander-in-Chief, retained their respective pre-independence ranks and corresponding insignia.

1950-present
In May 1949, Lord Mountbatten, the inaugural Governor-General of India and himself a naval officer, dispatched a note to Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, titled Names and Insignia of Indian Armed Forces, containing a list of suggestions regarding the nomenclature of the armed forces that were to be enforced upon the dominion's conversion to a republic.

In the note, Mountbatten proposed that the future IAF should retain its predecessor's nomenclature as much as possible - advocating the retention of the RIAF's ranks, insignia and uniforms. It was later decided that the rank braids of the officers cadre remained unchanged, whilst the three lions of Ashoka i.e., the State Emblem of India should replace the Tudor Crown on the insignia, flying badges and peak caps of airmen ranks. Additionally, busts of the State Emblem and a semi-Chakra were incorporated as the main features on the badges corresponding to Master Warrant Officers (MWO) and Warrant Officers (WO); nonetheless, the MWO's badge was decided to be superimposed on the rank braids of the Pilot Officers.

In September 1949, Nehru forwarded the proposals to the country's minister of defence, Baldev Singh, recommending Mountbatten's suggestions, which were consequently enforced upon India's emergence as a republic on 26 January 1950.

Structure
Presently, the IAF's rank hierarchy is divided into three broad categories:
 * Commissioned Officers (CO)
 * Junior Commissioned Officers (JCO)
 * Non-Commissioned Officers (NCO)

Command flags
The IAF has ten commissioned officer (CO) ranks, of which the highest is that of Marshal of the Indian Air Force (MIAF), a ceremonial five-star rank. The rank was awarded for the first, yet only time in January 2002 to then-retired Air Chief Marshal Arjan Singh, who served as the IAF's third Chief of the Air Staff (CAS) between 1964 and 1969, for his exceptional leadership of the IAF during the 1965 Indo-Pakistan War.

The highest operational rank in the IAF is the four-star rank of Air Chief Marshal, currently held exclusively by the CAS; coincidentally, the first time the rank was awarded was also to Singh in 1966, when he was then a Air Marshal. Prior to him, CAS appointees belonged to the three-star rank of Air Marshal.

Collar tabs
Sometime towards the end of Air Chief Marshal S. K. Sareen's tenure in 1998, the IAF introduced a new series gorget patches for its CO cadre - blue collar tabs embossed with white stars denoting the rank of the particular wearer; five for MIAF, four for Air Chief Marshal, three for Air Marshal, two for Air Vice Marshal and one for Air Commodore. Initially, for the rank of Air Marshal, the collar tabs did not immediately distinguish between the positions of Vice Chief of the Air Staff (VCAS), Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief (AOC-in-C) and other three-star designated positions; however, later three-star collar tabs were embossed with a wreath design to solely indicate the positions of VCAS and AOC-in-C.

Junior commissioned officer and non-commissioned ranks
The rank of Master Warrant Officer was introduced in February 1950.

Former ranks
Effective from 16 May 1977, the rank of Flight Sergeant was abolished and replaced with the rank of Junior Warrant Officer; existing warrant officer rank insignia were modified accordingly.

The rank of Pilot Officer is no longer in use; all new officers are commissioned as Flying Officers.

title: Indian Air Force ranks and insignia


text:
Pohlmeyer charge

In theoretical physics Pohlmeyer charge, named for Klaus Pohlmeyer, is a conserved charge invariant under the Virasoro algebra or its generalization. It can be obtained by expanding the holonomies (generating functions)

 * $$P\,Tr\, \exp i T_\mu\oint d\sigma A_\sigma^{(\mu)}(\sigma)$$

with respect to the constant matrices T. The gauge field $$A_\sigma^\mu$$ is defined as a combination of $$\partial X^\mu$$ and its conjugate.

According to the logic of loop quantum gravity and algebraic quantum field theory, these charges are the right physical quantities that should be used for quantization. This logic is however incompatible with the standard and well-established methods of quantum field theory based on Fock space and perturbation theory.

title: Pohlmeyer charge


text:
Builth Road railway station

Builth Road railway station is a station primarily serving the town of Builth Wells, in mid Wales. It is on the Heart of Wales Line. The station is over two miles (about 3.5 km) northwest of Builth Wells via the A470, a busy trunk road.

The hamlet of Builth Road has developed around the station.

History
The station uses one of the high level platforms of the former interchange station with the earlier Mid Wales Railway (closed 31 December 1962) which served the town of Builth Wells directly on its route from Cardiff to the North. The original (low level) station did not bear the name "Builth Road", instead being given the name "Llechryd". Builth Road was the name subsequently given to the Central Wales Extension Railway's high level station on the line from Llandrindod Wells to Llandovery that opened in 1866. The Mid-Wales Railway station was eventually renamed Builth Road Low Level in 1889. The two routes crossed immediately south of the High Level station on a girder bridge and were at one time connected by lift.

Both the High and Low Level stations had substantial buildings until the mid-1960s, with High Level also having a goods shed (still in existence) and a running loop to accommodate the banking locomotives employed to assist trains on the 1 in 74 climb up from Llandrindod Wells. The former Low Level station buildings also still stand and were used as the former Cambrian Arms public house, whilst those on the remaining active platform at High Level are now used as housing.

Facilities
The station is unmanned (like most others on the route) and has no ticket machine, so tickets must be purchased in advance or on the train. There is a standard waiting shelter on the platform, along with a digital CIS display, timetable poster board and customer help point at the station entrance. Level access is provided from the entrance to the platform, with a section raised to assist passengers boarding and alighting.

Services
All trains serving the station are operated by Transport for Wales and it is a request stop. There are five trains a day in each direction from Monday to Saturday, and two services on Sundays. During the Royal Welsh Show, Transport for Wales run special services with connecting buses to/from the showground on the northern outskirts of Builth Wells.

title: Builth Road railway station


text: User talk:82.201.222.5

title: User talk:82.201.222.5


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Citynoise

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete · Katefan0(scribble) 20:18, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Citynoise
It's either a neologism and therefore wiktionary-fodder or just non-notable, or it's an advert for a website - I can't wrok out which one just at this moment. Delete Francs2000 23:24, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That's because according to the article it means many things to many people. Delete until they come up with something encyclopædic. Tonywalton  | Talk 23:41, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete as website promotion. — brighterorange  (talk) 23:57, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as advert and attempted (self-admitted) neologism. MCB 00:51, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Q-in-Law

Q-in-Law is a 1991 science fiction novel by American writer Peter David, part of the Star Trek: The Next Generation saga. It features Lwaxana Troi and Q. The book was ignored by the Star Trek office at Paramount, and apparently published only at the insistence of Majel Barrett, the actress who played Lwaxana on the television series, and was wife to its creator Gene Roddenberry.

Plot
The Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) is assigned to diplomatic duty to host the wedding between two houses of the Tizarin, a race that lives only in space and engages in commerce. One of the guests is Lwaxana Troi, to represent Betazed. The time setting places it after the events of "Deja Q" (third season) and before "Q-Pid" (fourth season). Kerin, heir to the house of Nistral, will marry Sehra, the daughter of the house of Graziunas.

Q puts in an appearance. Although he toys with Picard while asking to be allowed to attend the wedding festivities, he promises to behave himself. Q attracts Lwaxana's notice, and she is fascinated by Q. To Picard's horror, Q fans the flames of love. Later, Q also begins to fan the animosity between the two Tizarin houses, mainly by feeding on the occasional blowups between the bride and groom, who are themselves irritated: Sehra by her future father-in-law Nistral's comments and Kerin by his future mother-in-law Mrs. Graziunas' comments.

The two families come to battle, and a despairing Lwaxana wishes she could do something. Q gives her power, and Lwaxana stops the battle, and Kerin and Serah determine they will marry, no matter what. Meanwhile, Q has revealed his true colors: another way of annoying lower life forms. He scorns Lwaxana, who gives Q a serious thrashing.

Meanwhile, a gift of gratitude by Sehra to Wesley Crusher turns out to be anything but a joy, as Sehra gives Wesley a clumsy slave girl. After much pain and a broken rib, Wesley returns the slave girl to Sehra, who had been trying to get rid of her but is now happy to have her back.

Production
The audiobook version of the novel was read by Majel Barrett and John de Lancie, who would talk in character during the sequences with Lwaxana and Q.

title: Q-in-Law


text:
User talk:Libidomode

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! - Vsmith 23:25, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:Libidomode


text:
Guadalupe Loaeza

María Guadalupe Loaeza Tovar (born August 12, 1946 ) is a contemporary Mexican writer, author of many books including Las Niñas Bien, Las Reinas de Polanco, Debo, Luego Sufro and Compro, Luego Existo, in which she ironizes about the Mexican upper class. A participant in Elena Poniatowska's writing workshops in the mid-1980s, she has transformed her success as a chronicler, observer, and critic of the Mexican bourgeoisie and the post-1985 democratization of Mexico into a successful career. Known for her trademark pearl necklace (a family heirloom) and for her francophile tendencies, she has become an influential cultural figure. Some of her books are compilations of her articles published in newspapers such as Unomásuno and La Jornada. She was born in Mexico City. She had two children from her first marriage. In 2003, Guadalupe Loaeza received the distinction of Chevalier from the Légion d'Honneur of France.

Her short story "Miroslava" was adapted into a 1993 film of the same name, and she also wrote dialogue for the 1997 film Day and Night (1997).

As of 2008, Loaeza is a columnist for the Reforma newspaper and is married to Dr. Enrique Goldbard.

Books

 * Las niñas bien (1985)
 * Las reinas de Polanco (1986)
 * Primero las damas (1988)
 * Los grillos y otras grillas (1990)
 * Compro, luego existo (1992)
 * Obsesiones (1994)
 * Manual de la gente bien I (1995)
 * Manual de la gente bien II (1996)
 * Sin cuenta (1997)
 * Mujeres maravillosas (1997)
 * El ángel de nuestras nostalgias (1998)
 * Ellas y nosotras (1998)
 * Obsesiones de Sofía (1999)
 * La factura (1999)
 * Debo, luego sufro (2000)
 * Los de arriba (2002)
 * Las yeguas finas (2003)
 * Hombres maravillosos (2003)
 * Simplemente Martita (2004)
 * Por los de abajo (2005)
 * Terremoto (2005)
 * Siempre estará París (2005)
 * Por medio de la presente (2006)
 * Confieso que he leído...¡Hola! (2006)
 * La comedia electoral.. Diario de campaña de una ex niña bien (2009)
 * Las Niñas Bien... 25 Años Despúes (2010)
 * En el closet (2011)
 * La puerta falsa (2011)
 * El Caballero del Titanic (2012)
 * Leer o Morir (2013)
 * Oaxaca de mis amores (2016)

title: Guadalupe Loaeza


text:
Internal ribosome entry site

An internal ribosome entry site, abbreviated IRES, is an RNA element that allows for translation initiation in a cap-independent manner, as part of the greater process of protein synthesis. Initiation of eukaryotic translation nearly always occurs at and is dependent on the 5' cap of mRNA molecules, where the translation initiation complex forms and ribosomes engage the mRNA. IRES elements, however allow ribosomes to engage the mRNA and begin translation independently of the 5' cap.

History
IRES sequences were first discovered in 1988 in the poliovirus (PV) and encephalomyocarditis virus (EMCV) RNA genomes in the laboratories of Nahum Sonenberg and Eckard Wimmer, respectively. They are described as distinct regions of RNA molecules that are able to recruit the eukaryotic ribosome to the mRNA. This process is also known as cap-independent translation. It has been shown that IRES elements have a distinct secondary or even tertiary structure, but similar structural features at the levels of either primary or secondary structure that are common to all IRES segments have not been reported to date.

Use of IRES sequences in molecular biology soon became common as a tool for expressing multiple genes from a single transcriptional unit in a genetic vector. In such vectors, translation of the first cistron is initiated at the 5' cap, and translation of any downstream cistron is enabled by an IRES element appended at its 5' end.

Location
IRES elements are most commonly found in the 5' untranslated region, but may also occur elsewhere in mRNAs. The mRNA of viruses of the Dicistroviridae family possess two open reading frames (ORFs), and translation of each is directed by a distinct IRES. It has also been suggested that some mammalian cellular mRNAs also have IRESs, although this has been a matter of dispute. A number of these cellular IRES elements are located within mRNAs encoding proteins involved in stress survival, and other processes critical to survival. As of September 2009, there are 60 animal and 8 plant viruses reported to contain IRES elements and 115 mRNA sequences containing them as well.

Activation
IRESs are often used by viruses as a means to ensure that viral translation is active when host translation is inhibited. These mechanisms of host translation inhibition are varied, and can be initiated by both virus and host, depending on the type of virus. However, in the case of most picornaviruses, such as poliovirus, this is accomplished by viral proteolytic cleavage of eIF4G so that it cannot interact with the 5'cap binding protein eIF4E. Interaction between these two eukaryotic initiation factors (eIFs) of the eIF4F complex is necessary for 40S ribosomal subunit recruitment to the 5' end of mRNAs, which is further thought to occur with mRNA 5'cap to 3' poly(A) tail loop formation. The virus may even use partially-cleaved eIF4G to aid in initiation of IRES-mediated translation.

Cells may also use IRESs to increase translation of certain proteins during mitosis and programmed cell death. In mitosis, the cell dephosphorylates eIF4E so that it has little affinity for the 5'cap. As a result, the 40S ribosomal subunit, and the translational machinery is diverted to IRES within the mRNA. Many proteins involved in mitosis are encoded by IRES mRNA. In programmed cell death, cleavage of eIF-4G, such as performed by viruses, decreases translation. Lack of essential proteins contributes to the death of the cell, as does translation of IRES mRNA sequences coding proteins involved in controlling cell death.

Mechanism
To date, the mechanism of viral IRES function is better characterized than the mechanism of cellular IRES function, which is still a matter of debate. HCV-like IRESs directly bind the 40S ribosomal subunit to position their initiator codons are located in ribosomal P-site without mRNA scanning. These IRESs still use the eukaryotic initiation factors (eIFs) eIF2, eIF3, eIF5, and eIF5B, but do not require the factors eIF1, eIF1A, and the eIF4F complex. In contrast, picornavirus IRESs do not bind the 40S subunit directly, but are recruited instead through the eIF4G-binding site. Many viral IRES (and cellular IRES) require additional proteins to mediate their function, known as IRES trans-acting factors (ITAFs). The role of ITAFs in IRES function is still under investigation.

Validity of Tests for IRES function
Testing of sequences for potential IRES function has generally relied on the use of bicistronic reporter assays. In these tests, a candidate IRES segment is introduced into a plasmid between two cistrons encoding two different reporter proteins. A promoter upstream of the first cistron drives transcription of both cistrons in a single mRNA. Cells are transfected with the plasmid and assays are subsequently performed to quantitate expression of the two reporters in the cells. An increase in the ratio of expression of the downstream reporter relative to the upstream reporter is taken as evidence for IRES activity in the test sequence. However, without characterization of the mRNA species produced from such plasmids, other explanations for the increase in this ratio cannot be ruled out. For example, there are multiple known cases of suspected IRES elements that were later reported as having promoter function. Unexpected splicing activity within several reported IRES elements have also been shown to be responsible for the apparent IRES function observed in bicistronic reporter tests. A promoter or splice acceptor within a test sequence can result in the production of monocistronic mRNA from which the downstream cistron is translated by conventional cap-dependent, rather than IRES-mediated, initiation. A later study that documented a variety of unexpected aberrant mRNA species arising from reporter plasmids revealed that splice acceptor sites can mimic both IRES and promoter elements in tests employing such plasmids, further highlighting the need for caution in the interpretation of reporter assay results in the absence of careful RNA analysis.

Applications
IRES sequences are often used in molecular biology to co-express multiple genes under the control of the same promoter, thereby mimicking a polycistronic mRNA. Within the past decades, IRES sequences have been used to develop hundreds of genetically modified rodent animal models. The advantage of this technique is that molecular handling is improved. The problem about IRES is that the expression for each subsequent gene is decreased.

Another viral element to establish polycistronic mRNA in eukaryotes are 2A-peptides. Here, the potential decrease in gene expression and the degree of incomplete separation of proteins is context dependent.

title: Internal ribosome entry site


text:
User:UBX/Camino

ko:틀:User browser:Camino ja:Template:User browser:Camino

title: User:UBX/Camino


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/An Entrepreneur

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Redirect -- (drini's page| ☎ ) 20:57, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

An Entrepreneur
Merged with Entrepreneur and is now extraneous keep sleep ing   say what  23:26, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and redirect then. Tonywalton | Talk 23:44, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * speedy redirect as normal to Entrepreneur to save history. — brighterorange  (talk) 23:50, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well pointed out. That's what I mant. Tonywalton | Talk 17:13, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Michel-Dimitri Calvocoressi

Michel-Dimitri Calvocoressi (2 October 1877 – 1 February 1944) was a French-born music critic and musicologist of Greek descent who was a British citizen and resident in England from 1914 onwards. He is especially noted for his writings on Russian classical music, particularly on the life and works of Modest Mussorgsky, and his close association with the French musical establishment.

Born in Marseille, Calvocoressi learned numerous languages in his youth and attempted various careers before settling on music criticism. His early career was spent as an influential music critic in Paris, where he contributed to English and French newspapers: Gil Blas, the Comoedia Illustré, The Morning Post and The Musical Times, among others. He was well acquainted with the city's musical figures, particularly Maurice Ravel. Alongside Ravel and the pianist Ricardo Viñes, Calvocoressi founded the Apaches musical society.

After serving as a cryptographer in England for World War I, he remained in London to continue criticism and musicological writing for the rest of his life. Although he wrote his later books in English and came to know English cultural figures such as Arnold Bennett and Ralph Vaughan Williams, his colleague Gerald Abraham remarked that "he never enjoyed the influence and authority in London that he had exercised in Paris". In addition to his writings on Russian music and Mussorgsky, he wrote on the music of Liszt, Glinka, Schumann, Koechlin and Debussy.

Early life and education
Michel-Dimitri Calvocoressi was born in Marseille, France on 2 October 1877 to Greek parents. In his earliest years he learned Greek, Italian, English and later German; he noted that "I read far more English books than French." At the École Monge high school of Paris, he developed a lifelong interest in geology and mineralogy. The musicologist Gerald Abraham notes that Calvocoressi had "a number of false starts at other careers: law, banking and stockbroking". At first, he studied at the Lycée Janson de Sailly, Paris, but inspiration from an Orchestre Lamoureux concert of Richard Wagner's works galvanized his interest in music.

Alongside his piano lessons with Eugène Claveau, Calvocoressi frequented the Parisian concert scene, with works by Bach, Liszt, d'Indy, Wagner, and the Romantic Russian composers in particular leaving a lasting impression. He began harmony study at the Conservatoire de Paris with Xavier Leroux, where he became friends with the composer Maurice Ravel; Ravel later dedicated "Alborada del gracioso" from the piano suite Miroirs to Calvocoressi. Ravel also harmonized a set of Greek folk songs which Calvocoressi translated, known as Cinq mélodies populaires grecques, and may have inspired the composer's piano Sonatine. Like Ravel, Calvocoressi was a member of the Apaches music society.

Career and later life

Calvocoressi's music criticism career can be divided into two: a French (1902–1914) and English (1921–1944) period. Described by Abraham as "a remarkable polyglot", Calvocoressi's career beginning in 1902 was as a music critic and correspondent for several English, American, German and Russian periodicals. Encouraged by the novelist Binet-Valmer, the latter introduced him to Octave Maus, an editor of the monthly L'Art Moderne magazine. Calvocoressi became the Paris musical correspondent for L'Art Moderne and music critic for Binet-Valmer's La Renaissance latine magazine; around then he also was music critic for the Anglo-French Weekly Critical Review. Although some of these publications became obsolete in the next few years, Calvocoressi was well established enough to be unaffected. He contributed to other publications and various time: the daily Gil Blas, the fortnightly Comoedia Illustré (part of Comœdia), the daily The Morning Post and particularly monthly Musical Times.

Calvocoressi published his first book—a study on Franz Liszt—in 1905, the year when he began writing for the English Monthly Musical Record, began both a correspondence with the Russian composer Mily Balakirev and developed a general interest in Russian music, particularly the work of Modest Mussorgsky. From 1907 to 1910 he served as an advisor for the impresario Sergei Diaghilev, who organized Russian music and ballet concerts in Paris. For his efforts, the Russian government granted him the Order of Saint Anna, while the Soviets later elected him a member of the Academy of Sciences of the Soviet Union. He visited Russia for the first and only time in 1914, meeting with musical figures such as Alexander Glazunov. Calvocoressi lectured at the École des Hautes Études Sociales from 1905 to 1914, teaching about contemporary music. He also translated song texts, opera librettos and books from Russian and Hungarian into French and English. His next books included studies on Mussorgsky (1908), Glinka (1911) and Schumann (1912).

Calvocoressi paused music criticism at the onset of World War I in 1914, but found himself unable to serve the French due to his Greek ancestry. Later that year he moved to London and served as a cryptographer. He spent the rest of his life in England; he was naturalized and married Ethel Grey, a British citizen who was the dedicatee of many of his future books. These later studies were all in English, and included studies on Koechlin (1923), music criticism (1923), musical taste (1925), recollections of his musical experiences (1933), Debussy (1944) as well on two studies each on Russian music (1936 & 1944) and Mussorgsky specifically (1946 & 1956). Although he continued music criticism in London from 1921 onwards, Abraham remarked that "he never enjoyed the influence and authority in London that he had exercised in Paris". Calvocoressi became well acquainted with "many distinguished Englishmen", including the author Arnold Bennett and the composer Ralph Vaughan Williams. He died in London on 1 February 1944.

title: Michel-Dimitri Calvocoressi


text:
Talk:Howard Thurston

Infobox on burial place
The find-a-grave website reference in the articles shows the following: Burial: Green Lawn Abbey Mausoleum City: Columbus, Ohio County: Franklin County, Ohio USA GPS (lat/lon): 39.94, -83.0158

7&6=thirteen (talk) 14:50, 25 April 2008 (UTC) Stan

Debunker?
I read at William S. Sadler that Thurston was known for being a debunker. That would be very interesting to include, if true. Rschwieb (talk) 17:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

File:Thurston the Great Magician - Strobridge Litho. Co..jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Thurston the Great Magician - Strobridge Litho. Co..jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on February 24, 2016. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2016-02-24. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 04:36, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Passing on the Mantle
The "He kept up the grind for about thirty-five years until..." he died bit does not sound very encyclopaedic. Does it mean the "Thurston show" continued to run for 35-ish years until his death, or just that he remained active as a magician until his death or even that he just did not die until 35-ish years after the retirement of Kellar and the start of the Thurston-only show? Biskitty (talk) 17:38, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Thurston on Tahra Bey
Thurston exposed the tricks of the fakir Tahra Bey. He was reported to be either an Armenian or Egyptian magician. He managed to fool a lot of western people into thinking he really had occult powers. Upon doing some research on Tahra Bey, I noticed there were two fakirs around the same time performing. Rahman Bey and Hamid Bey, both also claimed to be Egyptians. Rahman Bey entered a box and remained underwater for an hour, Harry Houdini would later replicate this feat and beat this time. HealthyGirl (talk) 18:06, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

 * The Turkish magician Zati Sungur used the name "Zati Bey" in his early career. It appears "Bey" was a common name for some stage magicians in the early 20th century. HealthyGirl (talk) 18:09, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

 * Sofie Lachapelle in her book Conjuring Science: A History of Scientific Entertainment and Stage Magic in Modern France, 2015 seems to cover Tahra Bey in depth. I will have to have a look and see if she covers Thurston as well. This looks like a fantastic book. HealthyGirl (talk) 18:13, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140318122640/http://www.all-about-magicians.com/howard-thurston.html to http://www.all-about-magicians.com/howard-thurston.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140318122640/http://www.all-about-magicians.com/howard-thurston.html to http://www.all-about-magicians.com/howard-thurston.html

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 02:45, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Howard Thurston


text:
User:Novagabe

==Image Tagging

I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, ie in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use .)  See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thanks so much. --Boothy443 | comhrá 23:26, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User:Novagabe


text: User talk:69.4.131.151

title: User talk:69.4.131.151


text:
Talk:Do You Know Where You're Going To? (Theme from Mahogany) (Mariah Carey recording)

Untitled
OmegaWikipedia, I've explained countless times why I am using a template as opposed to the raw syntax, so I'll refrain from directing you to the appropriate discussions. Extraordinary Machine 00:40, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

EM, I've also explained to you why using the template is not beneficial to the articles OmegaWikipedia 00:43, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Do these ring a bell?:
 * 1) To reduce article size.
 * 2) To increase the ease of editing pages. Wikipedia aims to be an encyclopedia article than anyone can edit. Using raw syntax in articles keeps that from happening. The infobox is much easier to use for those not overly familiar with how to use the syntax.
 * 3) To keep a consistent appearance of single articles throughout Wikipedia. If somebody decides to do something different with the syntax in a new article, it would then not match up with any other article that uses that syntax. With infoboxes, you can edit the syntax in one place, and the changes are reflected across Wikipedia.
 * 4) Closely related to the above, to make sure articles obey the WikiProject Music and Song guidelines (as well as Wikipedia's manual of style, which the version you prefer to use (and keep reverting to) does not. The album's title should be on a yellow background as with the single's title, "Director" should give a clue as to what the word means, chart positions should be in their own section and be in order of the single's position, and song years in the chronology at the bottom should be in parentheses. Extraordinary Machine 00:54, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Merge
Since Articles for deletion/Do You Know Where You're Going To? (Theme from Mahogany) (Mariah Carey song) ended in "no consensus", I've performed a "test" merge of the two pages at Talk:Theme from Mahogany (Do You Know Where You're Going To)/temp, to see what the resulting article would look like if Theme from Mahogany (Do You Know Where You're Going To) and Do You Know Where You're Going To? (Theme from Mahogany) (Mariah Carey recording) were to be merged. Extraordinary Machine 02:06, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

 * do it Tedernst 23:40, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay, I've performed the merge. Please direct any comments to Talk:Theme from Mahogany (Do You Know Where You're Going To). Extraordinary Machine 23:20, 25 November 2005 (UTC)