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Talk:Hmong Americans

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:44, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down
Am I overstepping? I feel like this book is a lot of people's introduction to Hmong culture, but I may be biased. If I am, please feel free to remove it and leave a note on my Talk page telling me. Thanks. Janet13 06:17, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I've never heard of it, and I'm guessing most people who have been introduced to Hmong culture never have either. Most people's introduction comes from contact with their Hmong neighbors, not from reading books.  That said, I don't think overstepping is the word I'd use...I would say, however, that its insertion into the article could use some serious re-wording first to indicate why it's mentioned in this article and second so that it reads more smoothly.  I'd try to help out, but I (1) don't know what its relevance is and (2) don't know really what you're trying to say, so I can't reword it so it's less jarring.  Sorry. :-\  Tom e rTALK 21:34, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi Tomer, thanks for responding. I've reworded it some (and will post notification on your talk as well)... please see what you think. If it still doesn't work, please feel free to remove it. Janet13 21:57, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks good. I redid it a bit, as well as fixed up a few other things in there.  Hope you don't mind.  Tom e rTALK 22:17, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yay, wikipedia in action. :) I certainly don't mind and very much appreciate the suggestions and edits. Janet13 22:19, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Editing new population information
Is it possible to put this state-by-state population data in a table or similar format? I would also recommend limiting the table to only the first 10 states or so. Listing all 50 in this article seems excessive since the information is accessible elsewhere. (Also, I basically copied and pasted the information that had been recently been added to the Hmong/Mong people (but seemed to belong in this article) and some editing will be required to reorganize the information here.Nposs 03:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the 50 state list which was basically copied and pasted from other sources. This information is readily available on other websites and it is an inappropriate level of detail for this article. I've also tried to pare down the paragraph a little bit - but also included another source for more population data about Hmong Americans if readers want to learn more. Not every city with a Hmong community needs to be listed. Now this information should be accessible with the links provided.

article
an article on the sbuject youth gang violence in the Hmong American community.

The violence of Hmong gangs and the crime of rape FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin,The, Feb, 2003  by Richard Straka

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_2_72/ai_98253655/pg_1

List of Asian Americans and other lists nominated for deletion
List of Asian Americans and a whole bunch of other lists have been nominated for deletion. If you have an opinion, please vote at the AfD. Please see Articles for deletion/Log/2007 September 12 for all the lists that have been nominated for deletion. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 18:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/List of Asian Americans
 * Articles for deletion/List of Chinese Americans (2nd nomination)
 * Articles for deletion/List of Korean Americans
 * Articles for deletion/List of Cambodian Americans
 * Articles for deletion/List of Filipino Americans
 * Articles for deletion/List of Hmong Americans

Invitation to discussion
Active editors of this article are invited to join the discussion regarding the change in Asian American article's infobox. Specifically we are looking to get nominations for individuals who would fall under this article, nominations shall remain open until 9 November 2009. Comments are also welcomed. Thank you in advance --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 13:19, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

FYI, the nomination process is now over, and the voting period has began. Due to lack of nominations the slot for Laotian female representative is vacant, and will need further discussion sometime after voting has been concluded. The voting period will last until 4 December 2009. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 20:10, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Hunting in Their New Home
Should the article include reference to this: For Hmong Hunters, a Guiding Voice in Their New Home? --Pawyilee (talk) 10:39, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Source

 * Bliatout, Bruce Thoupaou, Bruce T. Downing, Judy Lewis, and Dao Yang. "Handbook for Teaching Hmong-Speaking Students." Southeast Asia Community Resource Center. Folsom Cordova Unified School District, 1988. WhisperToMe (talk) 09:41, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Merge proposal
The article History of the Hmong in Merced, California seems to be an attempt by User:WhisperTome to incorporate information from Anne Fadiman's book The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down. Considering that we don't have parallel articles for Fresno or St. Paul Hmong (nor for other ethnic groups in particular cities, AFAIK), it doesn't seem like we should have a separate article. — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi] 14:16, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Discussion is at Talk:History_of_the_Hmong_in_Merced,_California - I oppose the merge proposal for the reasons stated on that page, and the existence of the article about the Hmong in Merced does not stop anyone from making a more general History of the Hmong in California or History of the Hmong in the Central Valley of California
 * While Fadiman's work has been incorporated in the body of the article, there are other sources specifically about the Hmong in Merced, such as " "The Hmong and Health Care in Merced, California." Hmong Studies Journal. v2n2. northern hemisphere Spring 1998."
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 02:47, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that this article is too specific and reads like a book report rather than an encyclopedia article. Much of the excessive detail needs to be removed and the important details should be merged into the Hmong American article. The Merced community, while significant in the context of Fadiman's book, is not sufficiently notable to warrant its own article especially in light of the more significant communities elsewhere. Nposs (talk) 04:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * When you ask the question "Should a standalone article be written about this subject?" you consider the corpus of reliable sources available. This article clearly needs to be standalone, as evidenced by the several articles that have been written specifically about that subject:
 * "The Hmong and Health Care in Merced, California." Hmong Studies Journal. v2n2. northern hemisphere Spring 1998.
 * "Hmong Language and Cultural Maintenance in Merced, California." Education Resources Information Center. Bilingual Research Journal, v28 n3 p425-461 northern hemisphere Fall 2004.
 * When you have journal articles written specifically about the subject at hand, there's no way out.
 * While it is true that the article currently relies too much on one source, it is very, very apparent that it doesn't have to be that way. Over the next few days I'll incorporate information from "The Hmong and Health Care in Merced, California," which is readily available.
 * About the "reads like a book report rather than an encyclopedia article" - That may be a legitimate editorial issue, but it doesn't answer the question "should this subject be standalone?"
 * Also you state "Much of the excessive detail" - What is excessive, and why is it excessive? I do not believe that any of the material is excessive, but I will be happy to review material that you believe to be excessive.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 05:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * As for that other article, I filed a resource request so I can get access to it: WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request WhisperToMe (talk) 05:57, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You mention a few articles about the Hmong in Merced, but have you looked up information about the Hmong elsewhere? Do we have parallel History of group x in community y articles?
 * I have a suspicion that the information at History of the Hmong in Merced, California can be shortened enough that its incorporation into this article would avoid overemphasizing Merced. Perhaps Nposs could start something in a talk page or sandbox that shows how this information can be shortened. — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]  18:14, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * "You mention a few articles about the Hmong in Merced," - In that case the indications of having enough material to make a standalone article are there
 * "but have you looked up information about the Hmong elsewhere? Do we have parallel History of group x in community y articles?" - Why not? There's nothing stopping anyone from creating them. If you can find enough sources to write "History of the Hmong in Fresno" or wherever, one is very much welcome to do so
 * By the way the idea for this largely came from History of the Jews in Galveston, Texas
 * In regards to shortening it - Before he tries that, he should consider "History of the Jews in Galveston, Texas" and think about
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 18:25, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The History of the Jews in Galveston, Texas is also a case where the article should really be merged into a larger article. Probably it should be a part of the existing article on Rabbi Cohen since the article is mainly about him. It is not a good example of what this article should be.
 * As far as what can be cut: begin with the numerous quotes, especially those of Fadiman who is not a scholar of Hmong studies, but an author on many topics. Her analysis of Hmong culture, demographics, cultural geography, etc. can not be taken at face value. Most of her comments are unsourced and seem to be opinion. There are many facts in this article are common to Hmong communities around the country and do not make this community stand out. I don't see how it became my job to cut down this article for the merge, but I'm willing to give it a try. Nposs (talk) 21:43, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Follow-up: After a first draft, I would suggest that this article be edited and included in the Merced, California article rather than the Hmong American article. The details are really more specific to it. The section on The Spirit Catches You ... could probably be expanded in the Hmong American article to include some of the detail here, though. Nposs (talk) 21:58, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * "Most of her comments are unsourced and seem to be opinion." - How do you know they are "unsourced"? Is this saying that the author is really making this up? I'll take a look at the book and see what kinds of work cited section she has.
 * Usually when content is in a book published by a major publisher (Farrar, Straus and Giroux) we do take the word of the book because the publisher vetted and fact checked the book. If this was self-published, it would be a different matter. Her analysis can be taken at face value because her publisher said so, and we use books published by reliable publishers as reliable sources.
 * In some cases, "opinion" is a legitimate aspect of a topic to cover. Why would these opinions not be worthy of being covered?
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 23:03, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The standard of reliability is not the status of the publisher. One of the worst and most factually incorrect books on the Hmong is History of a People (published by Eastern Washington University Press) and written by a university professor Keith Quincy (albeit one who taught philosophy and political science -- not Hmong studies or Southeast Asian studies or Asian American studies.) Nposs (talk) 00:46, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * As a general rule we do go by the publisher on deciding whether a source is reliable (i.e. a "self-publishing" publisher has the least value, while a university publisher/peer reviewed journal article/other academic publication usually has the highest value). There are cases where factually incorrect information is published by reliable (not infallible) sources. In those cases we use other sources to match and check material and we use editorial judgment.
 * If you want to open a request on checking how reliable the source is, then we should start a thread at Reliable sources/Noticeboard on the book
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 03:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * FWIW, there's a long series of History of the Jews in [country/region] articles. There's also quite a few History of the Jews in [city] such as History of the Jews in Vienna, History of the Jews in Laupheim, History of the Jews in Prague, History of the Jews in Pittsburgh, History of the Jews in Philadelphia, History of the Jews in Kalisz, History of the Jews in Brenham, Texas, History of the Jews in Dallas, Texas, History of the Jews in St. Louis, Missouri.  There's also a History of the Jews in Ohio and History of Jews in New York.  Other than Brenham and Galveston, the cities in question seem to be fairly prominent historically and culturally.  — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]  22:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember that Galveston at one time was a major commercial center of Texas; it was eclipsed relatively recently by Houston. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:03, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I just got "Hmong Language and Cultural Maintenance in Merced, California" and that's a large journal article. I'll incorporate material from this one as well. WhisperToMe (talk) 23:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Please do not add any more to this article. It does not make the subject more notable. If you want to add the reference, it likely belongs on the Hmong language page. The problem is that it is not notable that there are Hmong people in Merced. There are lots of Hmong people in lots of cities. There are lots of Hmong people in lots of small cities where they make up a large part of the community. Right now, the notability of Hmong people in Merced would seem to be that Fadiman wrote about it in a popular book. As for the veracity of Fadiman's statements: many of them quoted here are opinion. Example: Merced is the "most intensely Hmong place in the United States." On what basis does she make this? What would be the data to back this up? "Sometimes I felt that the other cities of the Central Valley ... were mere suburbs of Merced." Opinion.  "how extraordinary it was to hear the Hmong language spoken at the Kmart on J Street". Opinion. "the crucial distinction is that you cannot see a restructured property tax, but when you drive down almost any street on the South Side, you can certainly see the Hmong." Opinion. "treated the newcomers like exotic guests." Opinion.
 * Nposs (talk) 00:42, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 1. If I find information that will invalidate the idea that "this cannot be a functional standalone article" I will add it in a New York minute. You can make a legitimate claim that the content needs a lot of work, or that the content needs editing, but my goal right now is to make the case that the corpus reliable sources show that this topic warrants a standalone article. We can make the article/content better once that question is settled.
 * 2. "There are lots of Hmong people in lots of cities." But there are not "lots of cities" where Dang Moua promoted settlement in because Vang Pao wanted to make a fruit ranch in the area, or "lots of cities" which happened to be the center of subclan gatherings in the Central Valley of California, or "lots of cities" which have the highest concentration of Hmong in the country. I am well-aware that many Hmong are in small cities in the Central Valley, but Fadiman's work states that Merced is where a lot of the subclan meetings happen, and Merced is where the Hmong from other cities congregate to attend those meetings. Hence her comment about other places being "suburb"s of Merced.
 * Several cities were targeted for secondary Hmong migration in the US. Why is it notable that Dang Moua promoted Merced? Again, my main question is: why is the Hmong settlement in Merced notable? Nposs (talk) 14:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Notability states as a general principle (I added the underline) "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article or stand-alone list."
 * There is a section of "The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down" (titled "Why Did They Pick Merced?") discussing specifically how the Hmong came to Merced, then there are two journal articles that specifically address the Hmong community in Merced. I presume that such a topic merits its own article because we have three sources that specifically address this aspect. This number doesn't include the periodicals discussing the Hmong in Merced.
 * These sources have significant coverage of the specific subject. For instance the detailed information about Dang Moua promoting Merced would be "significant coverage."
 * "Presume" does not mean a "guarantee" as there could be circumstances where a subject has many RSes specifically addressing it, but does not merit an article (chiefly because reasons outlined in WP:NOT) - WP:N says "Editors may reach a consensus that although a topic meets this criterion, it is not appropriate for a stand-alone article. For example, such an article may violate what Wikipedia is not." - If you still feel this way, it may be best to begin an RFC so other editors can review the evidence and determine how best to handle this information.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 23:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 3. You said "This article is not really a history of Hmong people in Merced. It is several opinions about Hmong people in Merced by Fadiman along with some unrelated demographic data." - The second section states specifically how the Hmong targeted Merced, with Vang Pao's proposed farm and Dang Moua's advocacy and promotion.
 * Vang Pao's farm never materialized and Moua was not alone in promoting settlement in a specific city. These facts might be interesting in the Merced, California article, but don't warrant a separate page. Nposs (talk) 14:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm aware that Vang Pao's farm never materialized. The promise of the farm started the Hmong migration. Even when the farm proposal failed, the Hmong continued to come anyway. There may have been other Hmong leaders who promoted settlement in other American cities. The question is: Are those accounts documented in RSes? Is there enough material from these RSes to start sections of articles or whole articles on these subjects?
 * Again WP:N states that "Significant coverage" is a criterion for establishing notability, and the information about the Dang Moua/Vang Pao stuff is "significant coverage" that establishes the topic as notable
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 23:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Three sources is hardly "significant coverage." Have you compared the amount of sourcing you've found for the Hmong community in Merced to that of other places like Fresno and St. Paul? — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]  02:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:Notability says about "significant coverage":
 * ""Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, so no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material"
 * So something that would be a trivial mention would be a sentence "The Hmong in Merced gathered at the stadium to root for Mickey Mantle" in an article about something else, with that being the only sentence mentioning them.
 * The two journal articles and the section of the book address the subject directly in detail.
 * You said: "Have you compared the amount of sourcing you've found for the Hmong community in Merced to that of other places like Fresno and St. Paul?" - If you are implying that MSP and Fresno would get more sourcing... Well, that means that those articles would be longer, and that nobody's attempted to write them. That doesn't mean that "Hmong in Merced" isn't a viable standalone topic; it means that you could write a longer and/or better article about "Hmong in MSP" or "Hmong in Fresno."
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 04:23, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Now for your examples: You ask about "Example: Merced is the "most intensely Hmong place in the United States." On what basis does she make this? What would be the data to back this up?"
 * The following Wikipedia article sentences answer that question: "As of 1997 Fresno, California and the Minneapolis – Saint Paul area have larger Hmong populations than Merced, but Merced has a higher concentration of Hmong residents than those two places." - And the information comes from the book, from the same set of pages. The notion that it is "more Hmong" has to do with the density of Hmong in the City of Merced relative to the population. MSP has a larger number, but a greater percentage of the population in Merced is Hmong. Page 227 states the information that, when Fadiman first visited Merced, 1/6th of the population was Hmong. By the time her book was finished, 1/5th of the population was Hmong.
 * Also Page 24 states that Merced as of the time of the publication of the book had about 61,000 residents, including over 12,000 Hmong.
 * In Page 296 "Notes on Sources" Fadiman says "The Hmong population of Merced City is an estimate based on projections from the 1990 census. It attempts to take into account new refugees from Thailand, secondary migrants from other parts of the United States, and births (using Hmong, not American, birthrates). The Demographic Research Unit of the California Department of Finance and Rhonda Walton at the Merced Human Services Agency provided assistance."
 * Yes, but there are several small cities around the country where Hmong people make up a large portion of the population. I grew up in one such place, Eau Claire, WI. For her to say that Merced is the "most intensely Hmong place" in the US is just an opinion. What about densely populated Hmong neighborhoods in large cities? You might note that Merced has an unusually large percentage of its population that is Hmong on the Merced, California article, but it doesn't contribute to the notability for this article. Nposs (talk) 14:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * "What about densely populated Hmong neighborhoods in large cities?" - If you are referring to Minneapolis/St. Paul and Fresno, she had already addressed those places in the argument.
 * She doesn't mention Wisconsin. However I did find info about the Hmong in Wausau here: http://www.dce.k12.wi.us/srhigh/socialstudies/histday/Hmong/hmong_timeline.htm in 1996 the Hmong made up about 11% of Wausau. In 1997 Merced's percentage, based on the estimate Fadiman compiled, was slightly higher.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 23:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * ""how extraordinary it was to hear the Hmong language spoken at the Kmart on J Street". Opinion."
 * That comes from the anthropologist Eric Crystal. http://orias.berkeley.edu/summer2002/speakers_2002.html talks a bit about him; he specializes in Southeast Asia. This isn't from Fadiman herself; Fadiman quotes Crystal in her book.
 * Fine, someone else said it. It is still an opinion, not a fact related demographics or language usage. Why would it be uncommon to hear Hmong spoken in a community with many Hmong people? Nposs (talk) 14:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The point is not "There are Hmong speaking Hmong in a Hmong community" the point is "the Hmong language had a presence in, of all places, Merced, California, when 15 years ago the Hmong language had no presence whatsoever in Merced" - the point is that it all happened in Merced, which would be thought of as an unlikely destination for a Southeast Asian immigrant group WhisperToMe (talk) 03:56, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It's still an opinion. — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]  05:30, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * In many Wikipedia articles, opinions from individuals are covered and described. This is especially the case when the meaning or the significance of an incident or event is disputed, i.e. person A says that it means Y, person B says that it means Z.
 * Why not try this question: What makes the opinion insignificant? What makes it not worthy of being covered on Wikipedia?
 * I would think that the opinions of an anthropologist of Southeast Asian cultures in relation to the significance of the Hmong being in Merced would be useful in an article or section about this content.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 05:53, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you need to step back from this article for a second. It is very "unencyclopedic." Encyclopedia articles do not cite opinions and feature extensive quotes. Encyclopedias paraphrase secondary sources on important topics. That is not currently what is happening in this article. You are trying too hard to create a topic where one would not naturally occur in an encyclopedia. There are lots of improbable places in the US where Hmong is now spoken. It is not notable in Merced. The opinion of an anthropologist is not necessarily more valuable than anyone else -- it is still an opinion. There is good content here, but it more naturally belongs in other existing articles (Hmong Americans and Merced, California). You can find more sources and rephrase this article, but it does not solve the underlying problem. This is not "a history." It is a collection of unrelated data about the Hmong community in Merced, which is very similar to many other Hmong communities in the US. Nposs (talk) 17:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * 1. Does this mean that a paper encyclopedia wouldn't try to cover something this specific? If so... while it is true that Encarta may not necessarily have a topic on something this specific, Wikipedia has the advantage of not being a paper encyclopedia. Wiki_is_not_paper says "The length, depth, and breadth of articles in Wikipedia is virtually infinite." Wikipedia can, and does go into really specific topics because it has the space and ability to do that. There are topics which wouldn't be included in a paper encyclopedia which are encouraged to be included here. If the topic naturally occurs in a section of a book from a reliable publisher, two journal articles, and various periodical articles, then I believe the topic can occur and should be covered in the paper-less Wikipedia.
 * 2. "There are lots of improbable places in the US where Hmong is now spoken." Are they covered in reliable sources? Are there sources that give significant coverage to those topics? If so, then we could have many of those articles. If not, then Merced is lucky in that it has the significant coverage while other places don't. I imagine that the San Joaquin Valley can be covered as a whole region. Maybe if History of the Hmong in the San Joaquin Valley is created, it *may* be possible that "History of the Hmong in Merced" could be merged into that; but I do not support the kinds of merging that have been proposed (merge into Hmong-American and Merced, California) so far.
 * 3. About the quote "Encyclopedia articles do not cite opinions" - Wikipedia articles not only mention opinions; they talk extensively about opinions and showcase them, especially when there is a disagreement over facts, or when there is a disagreement over the significance of factors/events/ideas, etc. Disagreement/debate can come from academics, notable figures/politicians, authors of non-academic books from reliable publishers, and/or journalists.
 * 4. Encyclopedia articles can include extensive quotes, especially when it's hard to paraphrase people's opinions or what they are trying to say. Especially this is the case when disputes about factual events and/or disputes on the meaning and/or significance of events occur. We do try to paraphrase quotes and ideas whenever possible. But I am cautious on that matter because I do not want to lose the meaning in what people are saying. You could argue that quotations need to be turned into paraphrasing, but it doesn't affect the question "Can this be a standalone article?" I admit that there are times when I should paraphrase when I don't, but I am happy to let the quotes I insert be converted into paraphrasing, and I do go back and see how I can paraphrase something.
 * 5. Also I commonly see people inserting original research on what the significance is of an idea or an event, i.e. "This man bears the same relation to X as Person B does to Z" or other original ideas. If we source comparisons and assessments from reliable sources, then people won't feel the need to come up with their own original assessments of events, etc. You can see that in how the attitudes of native Merced residents towards Hmong are discussed in what I wrote. Guy X says "racism is not involved" while that book author said "sometimes racism is involved." It is encyclopedic to report on disputes like this, and it is encyclopedic to quote and/or paraphrase them.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 08:33, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * "As a result, Fadiman said that "Sometimes I felt that the other cities of the Central Valley—Fresno, Visalia, Porterville, Modesto, Stockton, Sacramento, Marysville, Yuba City—were mere suburbs of Merced.""
 * This relates to the Wikipedia sentence: "The Hmong who moved elsewhere go to Merced for subclan gatherings in a manner similar to how, in history, Hmong residents in Laos traveled to their home villages from satellite villages" - This has to do with the Hmong from other places going to Merced for the subclan gatherings.
 * So 2 of the opinions are based upon other information (density of Hmong population, and practice of subclan gatherings), and one is actually from an anthropologist specializing in Southeast Asia who is quoted in Fadiman's book.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 02:40, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, this is her opinion. Suburb would be the incorrect metaphor here anyway. Merced might be the regional clan hub for community meetings, but why does this merit a separate article? Hmong people all over the country travel and settle along clan lines. This fact could easily be incorporated in the Merced, CA article. Nposs (talk) 14:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * See, it's not one or two facts that make up a standalone article. It is a body of facts from various sources and various aspects of the subject. The Dang Moua/Vang Pao stuff AND the regional clan gathering information AND the information about the Hmong educational aspects AND the health care dilemmas (particularly Lia Lee), all coming from sources or sections of sources specifically addressing the topic "The Hmong in Merced."
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 23:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

✅ I have shortened the content of History of the Hmong in Merced, California and merged that article with Merced, California. — Æµ§œš¹  [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 03:37, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The merge had been made even though no new arguments were made after my final post on 30 November 2010. I decided to review your move and consolidation. Considering your shortening, I found that lots of encyclopedic information had been removed. Merced,_California would be a good summary of the Hmong information, but the article contained more, clearly encyclopedic information about the Hmong community - Information about the clans, Dang Moua's role, Hmong gangs, health care, etc. Now, I am not removing the section you started on Merced. That would make a great summary. So I linked the "main" article from there. To ensure a more complete discussion, I have started Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Asian_Americans and alerted the WikiProject there. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:58, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I have nominated History of the Hmong in Merced, California for deletion. Please feel free to contribute to that discussion.  — Æµ§œš¹  [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]  18:43, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Education
I deleted the sentence that read "Hmong-American children born in the United States usually have much better access to education and jobs than that which their parents had, and thus have better economic opportunities than their parents would have had in their former homes."--because it was unsourced etc. I don't see this as the worst problem with that sentence or with the section on education. There is a problem here of cultural bias. If you are talking about pre-war Hmong, it is ridiculous to claim that their children have better access to education and jobs. After all, they had perfectly adequate education and opportunity to be Hmong hill-farmers, which there is nothing in the world wrong with. If you are comparing the US-born children's situation with that of people in refugee camps, the section seems ridiculously obvious. I don't think that's what the author meant, though. Writing like this distorts Hmong history, making it seem as though the Hmong struggled in Laos so they could abandon their homes for the US. They were fierce anti-communist fighters, but if they could have they'd have chosen to stay in the hills and keep on farming. Coming to the US is a better end for them than staying in camps in Thailand, but this wasn't what they wanted to begin with. There is a cultural bias here that suggests implicitly that American jobs and American education are better than other jobs or educations. It also suggests that immigration is a step up for the Hmong from the status quo ante bellum. This is a contention that doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article, and smacks of American elitism.Brechbill123 (talk) 22:52, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

File:Vang Pao 0.jpg Nominated for Deletion

 * What are you doing today 2601:205:4800:D4F0:5CA6:C819:E7C8:E457 (talk) 09:31, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Images of politicians
At User_talk:RightCowLeftCoast I started a debate over whether to include Mee Moua's image here, but he argued it may be better to talk about this specific issue over here.

Rightcow argued that it could be perceived as being POV if one includes politicians in ethnic group infoboxes. Currently the Hmong American one only has Brenda Song with no Vang Pao and no Moua

WhisperToMe (talk) 05:07, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * She is important because she is the first Hmong-American elected to state legislature. I don't know of any Republican Hmong politcal figures at that level or higher. Just reinstate the picture already. There is no political bias here. (She isn't even running for reelection.)--Nposs (talk) 16:14, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with Nposs. NPOV doesn't equate to fair and balanced.  Does anybody actually perceive including only a democratic politician's image to be a POV problem or are we speculating about hypothetical readers/editors? — Æµ§œš¹  [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]  16:38, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * To include only one side of the political spectrum, IMHO creates a bias POV that is supportive of said side. If there is a preference within a group say X to Y that can be written in a neutral manor in an appropriate section in the body of the article as not to give one political spectrum or another undue weight.
 * As for Vang Pao, I have found a non-creative commons alternative. If we want to use the image at this article one should add fair use rational to the file for use here.
 * As for Mee Moua she is notable member of the ethnic group, however my opinion is still that only having one side of the political spectrum in the infobox creates an undue balance. Now if her image were to be included in a political section in the body of the article, i would not have an objection. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:30, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Now there is Lormong Lo, if we are looking for a notable Hmong American Republican, to provide balance. He too is a historical individual due to being the "first Hmong American to be appointed to a city council in the U.S". We an use an image under fair use guidelines.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:43, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it would be fair to put Lormong Lo in alongside Mee Moua. — Æµ§œš¹  [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ]  15:26, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * About Vang Pao: Cool! Has it been uploaded yet? Where is the picture WhisperToMe (talk) 05:18, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, look at his article page, but you'll need to add a fair use rational, and seeing as how the subject is deceased it can be used as a historical image. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 02:02, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I also listed it on the NPOV noticeboard at Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard WhisperToMe (talk) 05:39, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

I see that no image of Lormong Lo has yet been provided. I have not found an image with no copyright restrictions, but under fair use since the subject is deceased an image can be used. I found this article where we can get a picture from; or if someone knows someone who runs this memorial site perhaps they can release an image to us.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 07:29, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Vang Pao image at Hmong American article
Please add a fair use rational per WP:NFC for the usage of the Vang Pao image at the Hmong American article. Otherwise image will need to be removed from the article's infobox. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:29, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Adding subsection - health disparities
I am proposing to add a subsection in the “Community and social issues” section on health disparities in the Hmong American population. There is already a subsection on mental health, but I think adding an additional subsection can call to attention the disparity in understanding ‘Western’ versus traditional medicine practices. Please let me know your thoughts! Prisci8 (talk) 22:34, 29 January 2020 (UTC) Please let me know if you have any questions/ideas on these proposed changes! For this Wikipedia page, I hope to make the following changes: 1) adding a "Health disparities" section; 2) adding citations throughout the "History" section; 3) editing the "Hmong by location" to add more depth to locations and to simplify longer sections. I hope to improve this currently C-rated class article, and welcome any feedback. Prisci8 (talk) 22:31, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

More sources
WhisperToMe (talk) 08:01, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Straka, Richard. "The violence of Hmong gangs and the crime of rape." The FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin. February 2003.

Infobox image discussion
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Asian American. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 07:34, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Asian American#Hmong American in infobox
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Asian American. Thanks. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:06, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Mental Health
I suggest that a mental health section be added under the "Community Issues" subheading. Another suggestion would be to create a completely new section on mental health. This is a particularly significant issue for the Hmong American community, which has been postulated to be resultant from PTSD, depression, and/or stress from emigration. The issue of the prevalence of sudden and unexplained deaths during sleep amongst Hmong males should be mentioned. Additional areas that should be covered should include the Hmong's specific needs as well as barriers to accessing mental health care. Mtran99 (talk) 08:22, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121214024603/http://www.hmong.org/page33422626.aspx to http://www.hmong.org/page33422626.aspx
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060620081425/http://www.cus.wayne.edu/content/publications/Asians7.pdf to http://www.cus.wayne.edu/content/publications/Asians7.pdf
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070111091459/http://www.hmongcenter.org/top50metarby.html to http://www.hmongcenter.org/top50metarby.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130911234518/http://factfinder2.census.gov/ to http://www.factfinder2.census.gov/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121129060844/http://www.hmong.org/page334122813.aspx to http://www.hmong.org/page334122813.aspx
 * Added tag to http://www.hndinc.org/aboutus.php?page=bod&mb=8
 * Added tag to http://articles.boston.com/2011-03-31/yourtown/29366687_1_hmong-population-largest-hmong-community-hmong-story-cloths
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160321215044/https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/aapi/data/critical-issues to https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/aapi/data/critical-issues
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061205012748/http://hmongtoday.com/ to http://www.hmongtoday.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061205023723/http://www.laofamily.org/ to http://www.laofamily.org/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061205012748/http://hmongtoday.com/ to http://www.hmongtoday.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120702114039/http://www.dce.k12.wi.us/srhigh/socialstudies/histday/Hmong/Modern/Hmonginthemodernworld.htm to http://www.dce.k12.wi.us/srhigh/socialstudies/histday/Hmong/Modern/Hmonginthemodernworld.htm
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Decline of Hmong language in the United States?
According to this article from about 10 years ago, use of the Hmong language had begun to decline in the US:

https://www.tcdailyplanet.net/hmong-language-endangered/

And according to this report from Education Week this year, the number of English-speakers of Hmong has declned 57% since 2006:

https://www.tcdailyplanet.net/hmong-language-endangered/

I'm not sure how to add this to the article, however.--Beneficii (talk) 15:02, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Sexuality
I don't see how it is encyclopedic or due to include two entire paragraphs on specific organaization that are not notable. I had removed it for the listed reasons but that was reverted so I thought I'd take it to the talk page. What justification is there that this content is due or encyclopedic? Spyglass1 (talk) 02:57, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

 * Thank you for opening this discussion. I have added another news source, as well as more information, since I reverted, and from my view, the content that was removed was basic and sourced information that seems to fit within the context of the section, and it does not appear to be commentary . Also, according to the notability guideline, The notability guideline does not determine the content of articles, but only whether the topic may have its own article. From my view, this small amount of content is WP:DUE within the context of the section, and I plan to continue research to help develop this part of the article to help support the inclusion. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 03:10, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not advocating for getting rid of the entire section but I don't believe the two entire paragraphs (which is a substantial bit) on various local organazations it due for the article. I'd be curious to hear the perspectives of other editors not us. Spyglass1 (talk) 03:20, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I have edited the section and other parts of the article in the meantime. Cheers, Beccaynr (talk) 05:06, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hmong Americans


text:
T. Edward Vives

T. Edward (Ted) Vives originated the FSU Seminole War Chant in 1985, a trombonist and composer, is the musical director of the Los Alamos Community Winds.

Originally from Auburn, Alabama, Dr. Vives began music studies at the age of 4, taking piano and theory lessons from Edgar and Dorothy Glyde. His musical interests changed to trombone performance and composition upon entering the public school system. Vives holds bachelor's degrees in both composition and music education from Florida State University where he studied with John Boda, Roy Johnson, and Charles Carter. He also holds a Masters of Music in Composition and a Ph.D. in Music Education from the University of Florida where he studied with Budd Udell and John D. White.

He is a member of Kappa Kappa Psi National Band Service Fraternity (Gamma Nu chapter, Florida State University) Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, (Epsilon Iota chapter, Florida State University) and Tau Beta Sigma (honorary member, Alpha Omega chapter, Florida State University) and Phi Kappa Phi Honor Society.

He has taught in the public schools in Florida and has served as a clinician at band and music camps in many states. His marching and concert band arrangements have been performed nationwide. In 2003 and 2010 he was selected as the Professional Music Teachers of New Mexico's (Music Teachers National Association State Affiliate) Commissioned Composer.

He is the winner of the 2011 American Prize in Composition (Choral Division);

Dr. Vives’ compositions and arrangements are published by Manduca Music Publications and Survives Music. He performs as principal trombone with both the Los Alamos Symphony and the Santa Fe Community Orchestra. Additionally, he teaches low brass instruments privately.

Orchestra

 * Introduction and Overture (From Palms to Poplars) (2002)
 * Symphony No. 1 (2005)
 * Tombeé de la Nuit (2005
 * Absence (2005)
 * Wedding Suite (2006)
 * Children's Suite (2007)
 * Fanfare de melodías populares de Nuevo México (2009)
 * Kilmartin Glen - A Sculpture in Stones (2009)

Concert band

 * Hilltopper Zia March (2000)
 * ...and they pealed more loud and deep. (2003) Winner of the 2003 North Cheshire Concert Band Composition Competition;
 * For the Fair and the Brave (2004)
 * The Los Alamos Firefighters March (2011)
 * N.B.I. (2012)
 * ...and they named it Trinity (2013)

Vocal, Choral, and Opera

 * Riddles (1993) Opera based on J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit
 * Borean Visions (1995) for Concert Band and Chorus
 * Verbum Continuum (1997) for Soprano, Alto Saxophone, and Piano
 * Reflections of '63 (1997) for Tenor, Trumpet, Violoncello, Guitar, and Percussion
 * Circaré (1998)
 * Vigil Mass for the Risen Lord (2002, rev. 2012)
 * Lux Aeterna (2008) Runner-up in the 2009 Sacra Profana Choral Composition Competition
 * Castrovalva (2009)
 * The Soldier (2011)
 * elegy (2012)
 * Nursery Rhymes (2012)
 * Premonition (2012)

Chamber music

 * Woodwind Quintet No. 1 (Four for Five) (1994)
 * Delineations (1998) for Trombone and Piano
 * Brass Quintet (2002)
 * Elan con Brio (2003) for Bassoon, Trombone, and Piano Duo
 * Undisonus Praeconare (2003) for Brass Ensemble
 * Episode an Ailes (2006) for Flute Choir
 * Fete (2009) for Piano Duo
 * The Music Lesson (2010) for Soprano, 2 Trombones, and Piano
 * Bittersweet Covenant (2011) for Alto Saxophone, String Quartet, and Piano

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: T. Edward Vives


text: User talk:68.7.23.161

title: User talk:68.7.23.161


text:
User:Drdr1989

I guess it would be time to update this page sometime in the near future. Don't know when, but soon. So stay tuned - and watch your edits. Drdr1989 05:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

title: User:Drdr1989


text:
Talk:Environmental vegetarianism

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Emmamde. Peer reviewers: IvanaPorcic, Carolynweekes, Jesssicagarnett, D.steel, Veronicag123, Donchingerzz.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 08:48, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Environmental vegetarianism


text: Talk:Radius gauge

title: Talk:Radius gauge


text:
Pumwaree Yodkamol

Pumwaree Yodkamol (ภุมวารี ยอดกมล; ; born February 9, 1982, in Bangkok) is a Thai film and television actress. She co-starred in Ong-Bak: Muay Thai Warrior, portraying Muay Lek alongside Tony Jaa. Other roles include The Bodyguard, where she played Pok, and Pisaj, in the role of Oui.

Yodkamol appears on the Channel 3 (Thailand) variety show In the Dark and other shows.

Selected filmography

 * Ong-Bak: Muay Thai Warrior (2003) -Muay Lek
 * The Bodyguard (2004)-Pok
 * Pisaj (2004) as Oui
 * Tom-Yum-Goong (2005) (girl on the street)

title: Pumwaree Yodkamol


text:
Omega Boötis

Omega Boötis, its name Latinized from ω Boötis, is a solitary, orange-hued star in the northern constellation of Boötes. It is a dim star but visible to the naked eye with an apparent visual magnitude of +4.82. Based upon an annual parallax shift of $12.76$ as seen from the Earth, it is located about 373 light years from the Sun. The star is drifting further away with a radial velocity of +13 km/s.

This star is three billion years old with a stellar classification of K4 III, matching an evolved K-type giant star that has consume the supply of hydrogen at its core. It has an estimated 1.65 times the mass of the Sun and has expanded to 39 times the Sun's radius. The star is radiating 355 times the Sun's luminosity from its photosphere at an effective temperature of about 3,962 K.

title: Omega Boötis


text:
Media in Melbourne

Relative to most other Australian cities, Melbourne media is unusual in its size and diversity.

Newspapers
Melbourne has two major daily newspapers, the compact format The Age owned by Nine Entertainment, and the News Corp Australia owned tabloid format Herald Sun. The Herald Sun was created from the merger of the morning tabloid newspaper The Sun and the afternoon broadsheet newspaper The Herald in 1990. A third major paper, The Argus was discontinued in 1957. The weekly Melbourne Observer newspaper was established in 1969. It is available free in print, and online at www.MelbourneObserver.com.au. The Local Paper group has locailised editions across all suburbs of Melbourne, the Mornington Peninsula, and per-urban areas.They are available free in print, and online at www.LocalPaper.com.au

Melbourne is served by various newspapers published in languages other than English. These include newspapers published in Melbourne and those published elsewhere. There is also a wide variety of street press available in Melbourne. There are a variety of free, weekly newspapers focused on local suburban regions. These are usually distributed to households without subscription. The free afternoon tabloid format mX was a brief attempt at reviving the afternoon newspaper in Melbourne.

Television
Melbourne is served by six free-to-air television networks. The three commercial television providers, the Seven Network, the Nine Network and Network 10 have commenced broadcasting new sub-channels including 7HD, 7two, 7mate, 7flix, 7Bravo, 9HD, 9Gem, 9Go!, 9Life, 9Rush, 10 HD, 10 Peach, 10 Bold, Nickelodeon. The Australian Broadcasting Corporation provides five channels, ABC (also available in High Definition), ABC TV Plus, ABC Kids, ABC Me and ABC News from their Southbank studios. The Special Broadcasting Service television also provides six television channels, SBS (also available in High Definition), SBS Viceland, SBS World Movies, SBS WorldWatch, SBS Food and NITV. C31 Melbourne is a public access community television station which screens mostly foreign-language television for migrant communities, and amateur lifestyle programs.

Melbourne has a large and thriving television industry that along with Sydney, produces most of the Australian prime-time television content. Melbourne produced television series include Neighbours, Kath & Kim, Hey Hey It's Saturday, The Footy Show (AFL), Blue Heelers, Dancing with the Stars, Steven Spielberg's The Pacific, Rush, Underbelly, Thank God You're Here, Rove Live, Summer Heights High, The Project, The Marngrook Footy Show, Millionaire Hot Seat, Deal Or No Deal, The Chase Australia, Family Feud, Offspring, The Panel, The Real Housewives of Melbourne, Winners & Losers and House Husbands.

The ABC has a large headquarters and production facility in the inner-city suburb of Southbank, SBS studios at Federation Square, C31 at Melbourne city, Nine at Docklands (previously Richmond), Ten at South Yarra (previously Nunawading) and Seven at Docklands (previously South Melbourne).

Melbourne is also served by paid subscription television services Foxtel, Optus TV and UBI World TV.

Radio
Melbourne has a wide range of radio stations. For 2010, the Nielsen Company estimates the Melbourne radio market has 3,840,000 listeners.

Sports radio
Melbourne has several radio stations dedicated to sports broadcasting. One such station is 1116 SEN, which took over 3AK's old radio licence and replaced it with a 24-hour sports format.

RSN Racing & Sport (formerly known as 3UZ) covers all sports but specialises in total coverage of Horse Racing, Harness Racing and Greyhounds.

Triple M, while generally focused on music broadcasting, is noted for its sports coverage (with hourly sports updates from personalities including Brett Phillips). Since the 2017 season, Triple M broadcasts every Australian Football League (AFL) game, every week. In October 2005 there were four Victorian radio stations that had the rights to broadcast AFL matches: Triple M, 3AW, ABC and K-Rock.

3AW's sport coverage consists of the show Sports Today with Dwayne Russell and Gerard Healy, as well as its AFL coverage.

ABC Radio Melbourne's sports coverage includes the Coodabeen Champions who are an AFL-comedy-music group (made up of Ian Cover, Billy Baxter, Torch McGee, Geoff Richardson and Greg Champion) that broadcast from 10 AM to midday each Saturday during the AFL Premiership season. They also cover a wide variety of sporting events, including taking BBC Sport's Test Match Special, the Australian Open, and international and domestic cricket.

Talk radio
The most notable locally produced talk radio stations are ABC Radio Melbourne (part of the ABC Local Radio network), and 3AW which often achieves the highest ratings. Both stations feature extensive local news coverage and talkback. 1116 SEN is also a talk station focused on sports. Melbourne is also served by SBS Radio which broadcasts in a variety of languages, aimed at migrant communities.

Community radio
Australia's most successful community radio station, 3RRR, is a Melbourne institution. SYN FM, at 90.7 FM, another community station, is staffed and presented entirely by youth up to age 26. Other community stations in Melbourne include 3PBS, which plays mostly specialist music programming, and 3CR, an AM radio station run by a broad coalition of left-wing activists. Melbourne is also home to Australia's first and only gay and lesbian community radio station, JOY 94.9.

In addition to the major players in Melbourne, there are many smaller radio stations catering to particular community interests. 3CR caters to a diverse range of community groups and community languages, 3XY 1422AM provides Greek language programming, 1593AM (Rete Italia) presents 24 hr/day Italian, 3CW 1341AM Chinese, and Pacific Islanders are now catered to on 3XX 1611AM which is better known for its 80s and 90s music during the day, and 3KND presents indigenous community programming. The FM band also features smaller suburban stations, and low powered services in various suburbs featuring programming ranging from dance music to English radio, Arabic programming and more. Light FM on 89.9 FM is Melbourne's community Christian station with the slogan of "Good friends, great music and a message of hope".

Music radio
Melbourne has eight analogue music formatted radio stations. There are eight commercial (six on FM and two on AM) music stations, and the ABC's national music station, Triple J. Fox FM and Nova 100 compete directly with a Contemporary Hit format targeting the under 40s. Triple M has an adult oriented rock format and features live AFL coverage on the weekends during winter. KIIS 101.1 (previously Mix 101.1) is more female oriented with a hot adult contemporary format that is aimed at 25-54. Smooth 91.5 (previously, Vega and Classic Rock) is Melbourne's newest commercial station and is now broadcasting a middle of the road/adult contemporary format that largely appeals to those aged 35+. Gold 104.3 is also aimed 40+, with adult contemporary/gold formats with music primarily from the 80s and 90s. Magic 1278 is a music station playing a format targeting 35+ audiences with music from the 80s, 90s and 2000s. 3MP also targets the 55+ with an easy listening Format.

Digital radio
Digital radio commenced in Melbourne on the 11 May 2009 and uses the DAB+ standard. Melbourne currently has 55 digital stations. DAB+ reception is good in most of the metropolitan area but it is still patchy in fringe areas (in particular Geelong and the Mornington Peninsula). Digital stations have the advantage of a translator in the Melbourne CBD that provides better signal quality than analogue services in some Inner East and central suburbs.

All of Melbourne's commercial, ABC, SBS stations, as well as Melbourne-wide community stations, simulcast their analogue broadcast on digital. The ABC, SBS and commercial networks also run additional digital only programmes. Digital stations include pop-up seasonal or festival formats, additional news, sport and specialist music genres such as dance, indie, jazz, chillout, country, love songs, Australian music, unsigned artists, Asian, Arabic as well as eighties and nineties only formats. Many of the digital stations are national formats and even those run by commercial stations are largely free from advertising at this stage.

Melbourne-based online news outlets
Crikey, The New Daily and New Matilda are online general news publications each with a small staff of journalists.

While not as big as any of the major outlets some of Melbourne's online specialist news media continue to grow. Due to the city's enthusiasm for events and food many successful outlets tend to cover these topics. The most widely read being Broadsheet.

Property and art/design are also a popular topics, serviced by Domain, RealEstate.com.au, ArtsHub and The Design Files.

title: Media in Melbourne


text:
User talk:Dhochron

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --Ryan Delaney talk 06:24, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:Dhochron


text:
Talk:Straightedge

Untitled
what is the difference between a sraightedge and a ruler —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.213.24.184 (talk) 23:06, 10 September 2009 (UTC) A sraightedge may not necessarily have divisions marked on it and a ruler may not be truly straight in its edge.198.2.5.101 (talk)

According to my old DT teacher way back at school, a Straight edge is for drawing, a ruler is for measuring. A straight edge doesn't have to have measurements on it.(Morcus (talk) 18:53, 30 December 2010 (UTC))

why is this named in wikipedia as a single word?
Until today i had never seen the term written as a single word, but always as straight edge. Some google searches tell me, that in drawing the two-word term is at least 10x more popular than its use as a single word. And it's almost three times as popular as the meaning promoted by hard core punks. Why do you let them own it, in wikipedia? -- 99.233.186.4 (talk) 19:44, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Please supply some links to your searches and we'd be more than glad to change it. Wizard191 (talk) 23:02, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Methods for making accurate straight edge
There's a link but it's broken. How is it accomplished? Are there ancient methods to produce such a tool?

title: Talk:Straightedge


text: User talk:68.63.174.249

title: User talk:68.63.174.249


text:
The Tigers (Japanese band)

The Tigers were a Japanese rock band formed in 1967, during the Group Sounds era. The group featured Kenji Sawada as their lead singer, and were signed by Watanabe Productions.

The group was first named "The Funnies", and was formed in 1966. Their first TV performance was on November 15, 1966 on The Hit Parade. The band was renamed to "The Tigers" by recommendation of the show's director Koichi Sugiyama, who would later go on to compose many of their songs. They appeared in several Japanese movies in the late 1960s.

The Tigers recorded "Smile for Me", composed by Barry and Maurice Gibb of The Bee Gees, which was released as a single in July 1969 in the UK and Japan. Also in March 1969, the group was featured on the cover of the US magazine Rolling Stone, the cover story was about rock music in Japan.

On 24 January 1971, The Tigers held their last concert, The Tigers Beautiful Concert, at the Nippon Budokan. After The Tigers broke up, Sawada formed the first Japanese supergroup, Pyg, in 1971.

In 1981, they reunited.

Movies

 * Dorifutazu desu yo! Zenshin zenshin matazenshin (1967, Toho)
 * The Tigers: The World Is Waiting For Us (1968, Toho)
 * The Tigers: Gorgeous Invitation (1968, Toho)
 * The Tigers: Hi! London (1969, Toho)
 * Kigeki migimuke hidari! (1970, Toho)

title: The Tigers (Japanese band)


text:
46 Boötis

46 Boötis is a binary star system in the northern constellation of Boötes, located mid-way between α Coronae Borealis and ε Boötis. It has the Bayer designation b Boötis; 46 Boötis is the Flamsteed designation. The system lies 478 light-years away from the Sun based on parallax, and is visible to the naked eye as a faint, orange-hued star with a combined apparent visual magnitude of 5.67. It is moving away from the Earth with a heliocentric radial velocity of +19 km/s. The light from this system displays an unusually high level of polarization due to interstellar dust.

This is a single-lined spectroscopic binary with an orbital period of 2567.1 d and a large eccentricity of 0.83. The primary member, designated component A, is an aging giant star with a stellar classification of K2 III. As a consequence of exhausting the hydrogen at its core, it has expanded to 23 times the Sun's radius. It is radiating 176 times the luminosity of the Sun from its enlarged photosphere at an effective temperature of $1.24$. The companion star, component B, is most likely a lower main-sequence star with 0.6–0.8 times the Sun's mass.

title: 46 Boötis


text:
The Franchise (novel)

The Franchise is a 1983 novel written by former Dallas Cowboys wide receiver/tight end Peter Gent.

The book follows a cynical college football quarterback's rise to superstardom in the professional ranks with a corrupt expansion team, whom he leads to a championship. While it shared some of the themes of Gent's 1973 novel, North Dallas Forty, The Franchise adds political corruption and murder.

Plot summary
Taylor Rusk is a star college quarterback and a can't-miss prospect in The League. Through various illegal means, North Texas is awarded an expansion franchise. As expected, the expansion Texas Pistols draft Rusk number one. The Pistols have a five-year plan to turn the team into champions, and getting Taylor Rusk ready is the key. But Rusk is on to the corruption and refuses to be a victim. With his college coach at the helm and "old league" legends mentoring him, Taylor Rusk plays The League's game until it's time for him to make his most daring move to bring it down.

But along the way, Rusk is betrayed. One teammate, a chronic con man, becomes the Pistols' general manager and ultimately betrays him. Another teammate suffers a devastating knee injury and the subsequent surgery is botched. Rusk sees him get tossed aside and, due largely to steroid abuse, he murders his family and commits suicide.

Five years later, the Texas Pistols are world champions, but Taylor Rusk has little time to celebrate. He's got to save the life of another victim: the woman he's fallen in love with — who's also the mother of his son. They ultimately take control of the Texas Pistols for him.

Critical reception
Kirkus Reviews called the "overlong" novel "a noisy, messy, unconvincing mixture of black comedy, shrill soap opera, and violent, bloody mystery-melodrama." The Washington Post wrote that "underlying the good-ol'-boy humor and Ludlum-like violence, there is a seriousness, a feeling that Gent, as he did in North Dallas Forty, could be revealing something that the National Football League would rather we did not know."

title: The Franchise (novel)


text:
45 Boötis

45 Boötis is a single star located 63 light years away from the Sun in the northern constellation of Boötes. It has the Bayer designation c Boötis; 45 Boötis is the Flamsteed designation. This body is visible to the naked eye as a faint, yellow-white hued star with an apparent visual magnitude of 4.93. It has a relatively high proper motion, traversing the celestial sphere at the rate of $1.21$ per year. The star is moving closer to the Earth with a heliocentric radial velocity of −11 km/s, and is a stream member of the Ursa Major Moving Group.

This is an F-type main-sequence star with a stellar classification of F5 V. It is around 1.6 billion years old and is spinning with a projected rotational velocity of 40 km/s. The star has 1.2 times the mass of the Sun and 1.46 times the Sun's radius. It is radiating 3.3 times the luminosity of the Sun from its photosphere at an effective temperature of 6,435 K. 45 Boötis is a source of X-ray emission.

There is a magnitude 11.53 visual companion at an angular separation of $1.461$ along a position angle (PA) of 40°, as of 2012. A magnitude 10.23 star can be found at a separation of $3.3$ with a PA of 358°, as of 2015.

title: 45 Boötis


text:
User:NathanB~enwiki

My name is Nathan, I am an undergraduate student at Drury University in Springfield, Mo, USA.

My interests are math, physics, music, and some other stuff. Yup.

I am also an avid listener of chip music, and sometimes try tracking some of my own.

Articles I've worked on

 * Benjamin Finkel - Professor at my school many moons ago.
 * American Mathematical Monthly

title: User:NathanB~enwiki


text:
12 Boötis

12 Boötis is a spectroscopic binary in the constellation Boötes. It is approximately 122 light years from Earth.

12 Boötis is a yellow-white F-type subgiant with an apparent magnitude of +4.82. It is a spectroscopic binary pair which orbit around its centre of mass once every 9.6045 days, with an estimated separation of 0.0035". The two stars have similar masses around, both are slightly hotter than the Sun and about twice as large.

A further companion, 12 Boötis B, was reported with a separation of approximately one arcsecond in 1989, but subsequent surveys have repeatedly failed to detect this companion.

title: 12 Boötis


text:
Loknayak (film)

Loknayak is a 2004 biographical film based on the life of Jayaprakash Narayan. It was directed by Prakash Jha. Chetan Pandit played the role of Jayaprakash Narayan and Tisca Chopra played role of Prabhavati Devi, wife of JP Narayan.

Cast

 * Chetan Pandit as Jayaprakash Narayan
 * Tisca Chopra as Prabhavati Devi
 * Tom Alter as Abul Kalam Azad
 * Gyan Dev Singh as Vinoba Bhave
 * Ashok Chauhan as Mahatma Gandhi
 * Meenakshi Thakur as Kasturba
 * Ashok Banthia as Ram Manohar Lohia
 * Atul Srivastava as Lal Bahadur Shastri

Filming
Loknayak was shot in Hazaribag, Patna, Sitab Diara, Chhapra (birthplace of JP), Mumbai and Satara. The film was made at the budget of ₹90 lakh for the Ministry of Culture. Prakash Jha made the story on the basis of in-depth research along with interviews of eminent personalities like Sachchidananda Sinha, Chandra Shekhar, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, L. K. Advani and Bimal Prasad.

Prakash Jha shot a scene in Jayaprakash Narayan Central Jail (earlier named Hazaribagh Central jail) to re-create the incident when JP, with Shaligram Singh, Suraj Nayaran Singh, Ramanandan Mishra, Yogendra Shukla and Gulab Chand Gupta (Gulabi Sonar) escaped from the jail on 9 November 1942.

title: Loknayak (film)


text:
6 Boötis

6 Boötis is a binary star system in the northern constellation of Boötes, located around 460 light years away from the Sun. It has the Bayer designation e Boötis; 6 Boötis is the Flamsteed designation. The system is visible to the naked eye as a faint, orange-hued star with an apparent visual magnitude of 4.92. It is moving closer to the Earth with a heliocentric radial velocity of −3 km/s.

This is a single-lined spectroscopic binary system with an orbital period of 944 days and an eccentricity of 0.4. The visible component is an evolved giant star with a stellar classification of K4 III. Its measured angular diameter is $1.432$. At the estimated distance of the star, this yields a physical size of about 38 times the radius of the Sun. The star is radiating 430 times the luminosity of the Sun from its enlarged photosphere at an effective temperature of 4,050 K. Its companion is probably a low mass red dwarf of around class M8 V.

title: 6 Boötis


text:
Kenji Sawada

Kenji Sawada (沢田 研二) is a Japanese singer, composer, lyricist and actor, best known for being the vocalist for the Japanese rock band The Tigers. Nicknamed "Julie" (ジュリー) because of his self-professed adoration of Julie Andrews, he was born in Tsunoi, Iwami (now part of Tottori), Tottori Prefecture, Japan, and raised in Sakyo-ku, Kyoto at age 3.

As a singer, songwriter, and actor, Sawada prospered greatly on Japanese popular culture in the last three decades of the Shōwa era. At the end of the 1960s, he had great success as the lead singer of the band The Tigers. After the breakup of The Tigers and another project Pyg, he began his own solo career.

Music career
Sawada was the lead singer of the best-known J-pop music act of the late 1960s Group Sounds era band The Tigers. A national teen idol, his nickname is Julie. Japanese pop stars of that era often adopted nicknames, particularly often English-language girls' names. His nickname is derived from the actress Julie Andrews as he is a fan of hers. The group was signed by Watanabe Productions.

In 1968, Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees was commissioned to compose two songs for the band in an attempt at international success. One of the songs was a hit in Japan, titled "Smile for Me" and sung by Sawada. In spite of his clear English pronunciation, the record did not make the pop charts in foreign markets as the Watanabe Productions management team had hoped. The band disbanded shortly after its release.

In 1970, after The Tigers broke up, Sawada formed the supergroup, Pyg. Kenichi Hagiwara, Sawada's main rival in the Group Sounds era, was a co-lead vocalist. When Pyg disbanded, Sawada went solo, but acting was to be his main form of artistic expression after that. Sawada started to wear trendy clothes and make-up in the 1970s, and became regarded as an influential fashion innovator.

In the 1980s he was in Co-Colo with Hideki Ishima.

Sawada also plays the shamisen. He appeared on the cover of Rolling Stone in March 1969 (No. 28), and is the only Japanese as a cover person of this magazine other than Yoko Ono.

Film career
Sawada's best-known roles include playing in Paul Schrader's biographical film movie about Yukio Mishima, Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters and playing in Takashi Miike's horror-comedy musical The Happiness of the Katakuris.

Personal life
He married Emi Ito, a member of the 1960s pop duo The Peanuts, in 1975, but they divorced in 1987. He has been married to Oshin star Yūko Tanaka since 1989, whom he met on the set of Tora-san, the Expert.

Awards

 * 1972, 14th Japan Record Awards, Vocal Award
 * 1973, 15th Japan Record Awards, Popular prize
 * 1974, 16th Japan Record Awards, Vocal Award
 * 1977, 19th Japan Record Awards, Grand Prix
 * 1978, 20th Japan Record Awards, Best Award & Gold Award
 * 1979, 21st Japan Record Awards, Gold Award
 * 1980, 22nd Japan Record Awards, Gold Award
 * 1981, 23rd Japan Record Awards, Gold Award
 * 1982, 24th Japan Record Awards, Gold Award & Planing Award
 * 1982, 25th Japan Record Awards, Special Gold Award
 * 2023, 77th Mainichi Film Awards, Best Actor

Film

 * Statue in Fire (1974)
 * Que C'est Triste Paris (1976)
 * Taiyō o Nusunda Otoko (1979)
 * Samurai Reincarnation (1981), Amakusa Shirō
 * Tora-san, the Expert (1982)
 * Capone Cries a Lot (1985)
 * Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters (1985)
 * Hiruko the Goblin (1990)
 * Boku to, bokura no natsu (1990)
 * Yumeji (1991, Yumeji Takehisa
 * Osaka Story (1999)
 * Pistol Opera (2001)
 * The Happiness of the Katakuris (2002)
 * It's a Flickering Life (2021), Satonao "Gō" Maruyama
 * The Zen Diary (2022), Tsutomu

Television

 * Sanga Moyu (1984), Charlie Tamiya
 * Hanekonma (1986), Takeshi Matsunami

Japanese dub

 * West Side Story (1979, TBS dub), Bernardo Nuñez (George Chakiris)

title: Kenji Sawada


text:
22 Boötis

22 Boötis is a single star in the northern constellation of Boötes, located 319 light years away from the Sun. It has the Bayer designation f Boötis; 22 Boötis is the Flamsteed designation. This object is visible to the naked eye as a dim, white-hued star with an apparent visual magnitude of 5.40. It is moving closer to the Earth with a heliocentric radial velocity of −27 km/s.

This is an Am star with a stellar classification of kA7 hA8 mF2 (III) ((Sr II)), showing the calcium K line of an A7 star, the hydrogen lines of an A8 star, and the metal lines of an F2 star. It has the luminosity class of a giant star and does not appear to be variable. The star has twice the mass of the Sun and four times the Sun's radius. It is spinning with a projected rotational velocity of 38 km/s. 22 Boötis is radiating 52 times the Sun's luminosity from its photosphere at an effective temperature of 7,528 K.

title: 22 Boötis


text:
24 Boötis

24 Boötis or g Boötis is a single, yellow-hued star in the constellation Boötes. It is faintly visible to the naked eye with an apparent visual magnitude of +5.59. Based upon an annual parallax shift of 10.00 mas, it is located around 326 light years from the Sun. The star is moving closer to the Sun with a radial velocity of −8 km/s. It is a thick disk star with a high galactic space velocity and an orbital eccentricity of $0.85$ that carries it as close as $−8.116$ to the Galactic Center, and as far away as $0.97$. An extrasolar planet was discovered orbiting this star in 2018.

This is an evolving red giant star with a stellar classification of G4 III-IV Fe-1, with the notation indicating the spectrum shows blended characteristics of a subgiant and giant star with an underabundance of iron. At the age of around 7 billion years old, it has 0.97 times the mass of the Sun but has expanded to 12 times the Sun's radius. The star is radiating 61.7 times the Sun's luminosity from its enlarged photosphere at an effective temperature of 4,863 K.

Planetary system
24 Boötis b was discovered by Takuya Takarada and collaborators using the Doppler Spectroscopy method, during the Okayama Planet Search radial velocity survey of G and K giants at Okayama Astrophysical Observatory. The preprint announcing the discovery was published on the arXiv eprint repository on April 11, 2018

title: 24 Boötis


text:
NER Class C1

The North Eastern Railway (NER) Class C1, was a class of 0-6-0 freight locomotives designed by T.W. Worsdell. They were used throughout the NER system, although particularly in Teesside between 1886 and 1962.

History
Thirty examples were built at Gateshead between 1886 and 1894, but after 1900 171 examples of the similar Class C compound locomotives were converted to simple operation and added to the class. The whole class was then re-designated as Class C and were numbered between 16 and 1820.

All 201 of the class passed into the London and North Eastern Railway ownership in 1923, and they were classified J21 but without any sub-classes to reflect the different backgrounds or dimensions. The class retained their original North Eastern Railway numbers under the 1924 renumbering scheme. Withdrawal of the class began in 1929, but proceeded relatively slowly and there were still substantial numbers in service in 1943 when the survivors were renumbered between 5025 and 5123' (with gaps). Eighty-two surviving examples passed into British Railways (BR) ownership in 1948, and renumbered by adding 60000 to their exiting numbers. These were gradually withdrawn from service over the next fourteen years.

Rebuilding
The mechanical history of the class is very complex, and both Wilson Worsdell and Vincent Raven made changes to the class. All the Class C compounds were rebuilt as Class C1 simple. Many examples were later rebuilt with a superheater and others had the original Joy valve gear replaced with piston valves and Stephenson valve gear. Some locos were further rebuilt with superheaters, 19 inch bore cylinders, piston valves and Stephenson valve gear. The superheaters were later removed from some of these locomotives.

Preservation
One example, (then numbered 876) was withdrawn in November 1939, but as a result of the onset of war was subsequently repaired and re-instated. It survived as BR 65033 until 1962. The locomotive was then purchased in 1972 for use at the newly established Beamish Museum.

It was used from 1975, pulling the restored NER Coach and the restored NER wagons between the Colliery Sidings and Station, until 1984 when it was declared unfit to run due to the boiler certificate running out. It then languished in the station yard, with No 14 (Hawthorn Leslie) or the Diesel shunter moving it to keep the motion from seizing up on occasion. It was on static display until 2004/2005 when it was removed to the North Norfolk Railway for restoration to steam in 2007.

It is currently at the National Railway Museum Shildon preserved by the Locomotive Conservation & Learning Trust who have owned it since 2011 pending restoration to working order at Kirkby Stephen East station, home of the Stainmore Railway Company. It was announced in July 2017 that the Heritage Lottery Fund bid between the Stainmore Railway Company and the Locomotive Conservation and Learning Trust, to restore both LNER J21 65033 and an ex. North Eastern Railway stores van, no. 5523, as an interpretation vehicle to travel with the locomotive, had been successful. The locomotives overhaul has begun, and after completion it shall move to the Stainmore Railway Company's headquarters.

65099 was a candidate for preservation, but it was scrapped in 1961.

title: NER Class C1


text:
44 Boötis

44 Boötis or i Boötis is a triple star system in the constellation Boötes. It is approximately 41.6 light years from Earth.

44 Boötis can be resolved into two stars, of 5th and 6th magnitudes respectively. They were separated by $209.8$ when the pair were confirmed in 1819, but were only $3.666$ by 2020 as the two orbit every 210 years.

The primary component, 44 Boötis A, is a yellow-white G-type main sequence dwarf with a mean apparent magnitude of +4.83. The companion component, 44 Boötis B, is a W Ursae Majoris variable spectroscopic binary. The variability of this star system was discovered by English astronomer William Herschel. The brightness of the eclipsing binary varies from magnitude +5.8 to +6.40 with a period of 6.43 hours. The two eclipsing components of the system are close enough to allow their stellar envelopes to overlap, or at least nearly so. In 1948, flare behavior was measured from this system based on data from O. J. Eggen.

The 44 Boötis system is 13 pc from Earth. It also may show signs of an infrared excess, implying the existence of a dust disk that absorbs visible light and re-emits it as infrared light. The dust would have a blackbody temperature of about 23 K, situated up to 182 au from the parent star.

title: 44 Boötis


text: User talk:66.245.250.109

title: User talk:66.245.250.109


text: User talk:64.106.61.27

title: User talk:64.106.61.27


text:
47 Boötis

47 Boötis is a binary star system in the northern constellation of Boötes, located 261 light years away from the Sun. It has the Bayer designation k Boötis; 47 Boötis is the Flamsteed designation. The system is visible to the naked eye as a faint, white-hued star with a combined apparent visual magnitude of 5.58. It is moving closer to the Earth with a heliocentric radial velocity of −13 km/s.

The primary member of the system, designated component A, is an A-type main-sequence star with a stellar classification of A0 Vs. The 's' indicates sharp lines as it has a moderate rotation rate with a projected rotational velocity of 55 km/s. It is a suspected variable star of unknown type. The star has 2.46 times the mass of the Sun and is radiating 46 times the Sun's luminosity from its photosphere at an effective temperature of 10,130 K.

The companion, component B, is a magnitude 13.3 star located at an angular separation of $−0.005$ away from the primary.

title: 47 Boötis