text:
Talk:The Precursors

Initial comment
how come you just come and ransack my page??? i will NOT stand for this!!!!

Dude, your preview article doesn't reflect Wikipedia's policies, and is rather unpolished. I just made it better. - XX55XX, 10 October 2005

What is this "Game Convention"? Do you mean E³? Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 03:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

It's not the E3. It's rather vague... Some pictures were shown at Deep Shadow's official site, but I'm extremely sure about anything about it... It was held in Leipzig, Germany, though.

Most likely, it was a low-key convention and was not mentioned by most gaming sites. - XX55XX 14 October 2005

Star Control
Is this game in any way, shape, or form, connected to the Star Control trilogy? In Star Control, the Precursors were an ancient, advanced race that looked like wolly mammoths.

 * They're at Precursor (Star Control). I'll add disambiguation. Bryan 06:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

 * No, it's not connected to the franchise you speak off. - XX55XX 22:50, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

There's also Precursors in Halo, yet I don't see a wiki page about them... Oh well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.23.152.252 (talk) 12:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Notability
So...it's not projected to be released for eleven years, it's existed for nearly five, the only reference is to a blog posting, the only external links are to sites related to the game itself? How does this pass the notability guidelines? WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/complex 20:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

The game has been released last year, but the English info available is always calling it "The Precursors" and not "Precursors". So could someone with more knowledge of Wikipedia please swap both pages because Precursors should point to The Precursors and not the other way around. Thanks! Wesp5 (talk) 18:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Patches section
The existence of an unofficial English translation is not notable unless it has been covered by a WP:RS, something which this entire article only has ONE of so far(see discussion above). Eik Corell (talk) 22:05, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion "The Patches Scrolls" is a reliable source in that sense, it is a well reknown patching site with thousands of hits, a good reputation and it mirrors e.g. the official WoW patches. Also while forums "are largely not acceptable.", I think the official developer forum for a game should count as a reliable source of unofficial patches for that game. Last not least, I myself am Wesp5, the author of the "The Precursors" translation patch, and I am well known for my "Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines unofficial patch" which makes me a reliable source according to the following section "Self-published material may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications." because my work on Bloodlines was published in several paper magazines like PCGamer (August 2008), PCZone (UK) and GameStar (Germany). I've added some more, hopefully reliable, sources regarding the game release in Russia and the current online version of the game. There are lots more in Russian, but those won't help English readers. Wesp5 (talk) 19:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I have yet to see anything that qualifies as a reliable source here. You having your work an unofficial patch for another game mentioned in a gaming magazine doesn't make you an established expert, though, it merely means some of your work caught the attention of some higher-ups. Next, a forum is not a reliable source, even if a post is stickied. I tell you what, bring out what you think qualifies as a reliable source and I'll have a look at it, but as it stands now, I'm not seeing anything but unofficial fansites and forum posts. Other than that, I'm pretty sure there's a conflict of interest here when you're adding mention of your own work here. To me, it seems like you're trying to promote the patch. Eik Corell (talk) 22:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Why is "The Patches Scrolls" no reliable source but IGN is? Because it's bigger or because it's US-based? Why don't you provide me with a "reliable" source that the game exists at all in the US-centered game world? How do you expect a "reliable" source for an unofficial patch when the game release itself, including the official patch, is completely ignored in the western media? I thought Wikipedia was created for exactly the reason to give info without being dependent on mainstream notions! If you have any interest in "The Precursors" at all, just download it, test the patch and see for real that the western world is missing a great game here and that my patch is the only thing that makes it playable. That is the reason I created the patch in the first place and why I mention it here. I can't yet understand your motivation... Wesp5 (talk) 09:14, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Reliability has nothing to do with nationality. It has to do with whether there is an editorial process.  In basic terms, do people run the website as a living, or is it a fan-run website?  Now as to the reference -- I don't think it's appropriate as a citation in the article, however I could see it working as an external link under WP:ELMAYBE, since an English patch would prove useful to many. --Teancum (talk) 17:32, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

I don't think "The Patches Scrolls" is a fan-run website. The problem is that the big US game sites seem not to be interested in games not released in the US and thus it is impossible to get "reliable" sources for such stuff. I would be happy to have the translation patch somewhere else when it doesn't fit in the main article, but I think it is important that it is mentioned on the main page itself so people are aware that they can play the game even although it wasn't released in English. Wesp5 (talk) 17:42, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Think about it like this - The patch makes the game comprehensible for an English-speaking audience, but that doesn't make it notable, because the game wasn't made for them -- It's not actually a necessity; it's a luxury. The argument that it's a necessity because it's in Russian would only work if it was released in Western countries, in Russian. If that was the case, it would indeed be a necessity, and a patch would receive at least some coverage by reliable sources. Eik Corell (talk) 23:14, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

1. The game was made for an English speaking audience. My translation patch is based on almost complete English subtitles stored in the game files which I only activated to work with the Russian version. The English site, English forum and presentation at western game conventions show this as well. 2. The game is available to an English speaking audience right now, via the distribution service mentioned in the article as well as occassional ebay auctions. 3. This means there is a necessity to offer information on the translation patch and the official patch, which isn't available from the English site. As for the patches getting coverage of reliable sources, I already told you that the western magazines don't even have acknowledged that the game itself was released. 87.78.221.66 (talk) 08:28, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * If the subtitles were not included, and the game not sold elsewhere than Russia, Russian-language websites and Ebay auctions, then it's not targeted at an English-speaking audience, even if it has an English-language forum. As I see it, my argument stands. Eik Corell (talk) 12:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Can't you read? The subtitles were included, only to be activated in the English version which was never released. Why don't you remove the whole Wikipedia entry because without the translation patch no English speaking audience could ever make any use of the game. I bet this kind of complete censorship would be good for your ego. Wesp5 (talk) 12:19, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Define "activated". By "activated", I'm assuming you're talking about modding the game files in one way or another. As far as deleting the whole article, check the debate above this one. I see you're starting to become nasty, so I'm gonna read your next reply before touching the article, and if it's grasping at straws like your other arguments, I'm done here. Eik Corell (talk) 12:23, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

"Activated" in that the official Deep Shadows resource editor had only be tricked into believing he was editing the English version of the game to then copy all the English subtitles back into the Russian version. As for becoming nasty, it looks to me that you are doing this whole editing thing only to get some confrontation. You should know by now that there is a great Russian game out there being playable in English, why don't you give English gamers a chance even if mainstream game magazines haven't acknowledged it yet? One additional line in links clearly validated by the WP:ELMAYBE rules shouldn't hurt you that much. Wesp5 (talk) 12:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, then we are talking about modding. Let's go through the guideline you cite: "Sites which fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article" the subject of this article is the game, not the patches. So that one is out of the way. "from knowledgeable sources." -- Even if you somehow argue that the sources are knowledgeable, the info at the site is not about the subject of the article, and the placeholder info it has, like the publisher and developer of the game, is already present in this article. Basically, you're interpreting this guideline backwards; You want to include mention of the unofficial patch in this article, and you justify including it because of the minimal amount of info on the page hosting the patches. It doesn't work like this - The purpose of including it under WP:ELMAYBE would be for the information, not the files, which is what you're arguing for here. So, it's about files related to the game, unofficial ones as well, which, by the way, one would typically find on fansites. Eik Corell (talk) 12:59, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Right, just a few thoughts on this: Thanks! Fin©™ 17:45, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) The Patches Scrolls is not a reliable source, it's simply a website that hosts patch files. If a reliable source hasn't covered the unofficial patch, then it shouldn't be included. Just because a patch exists does not mean it should be in the article. Something like the nudity patch for The Sims 2 did receive coverage from reliable sources, so there's a section in its article on it.
 * 2) Working on something does not make one an expert - I've made some mean C++ demos in my time, but I'm nowhere near approaching anything I'd call "expert" level. Even if one is an expert, they shouldn't be editing articles directly related to them (for instance, adding papers they've published, in this case, patches they've developed).
 * 3) A game including subtitles for a specific region or language does not mean the game was targeted at that region. If a hack or patch is required to unlock or access the files, its safe to say the developers didn't intend for users to access them for whatever reason.
 * 4) Official forums are ok to use as sources when it's a developer posting. A random post on an official forum does not give the post legitimacy.
 * 5) Be cool.

I give up. I hope you all are glad you were able to withold important information for anyone actually interested in the game because it isn't mainstream enough for western game magazines. I always thought Wikipedia was supposed to avoid such a censorship by ignorance of the majorty... Wesp5 (talk) 17:56, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * You should check the list of things that [WP:NOT|Wikipedia is Not]]. A lot of people come to this site, thinking for example that it's all-inclusionary, when in fact, it isn't. Eik Corell (talk) 18:03, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, but I learned what it is, namely the private power playground of bureaucrats like you who don't care one bit about the actual information content. I'm disappointed! Wesp5 (talk) 18:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * There are actually bureaucrats on Wikipedia, and I'm not one of them. Eik Corell (talk) 18:44, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

That's what you think. Wesp5 (talk) 19:00, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope, you can click the link and see if I'm listed as such. Not a bureaucrat. Eik Corell (talk) 19:23, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Very funny. You know exactly what I mean... Wesp5 (talk) 19:37, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Tsk Tsk Eik Corell, You never cease to amaze me with your obvious bullying. have a great day, and don't give up Wesp Magicianbink (talk) 17:33, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, Jesus loves me and that's all that counts. Unless Yahwe is the fake one, and Allah is the real one, but I digress -- Nice to see you, too. Eik Corell (talk) 17:51, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad you took that well, Falcon on the other hand was offended on your behalf, Isn't that special :) Magicianbink (talk) 23:14, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

lol@Eik What a dick. If this game is russian-only why even bother to create an article for it you stupid idiot? Patched and Mods are an essential part of gaming culture and if you are ignoring this you´re a pretty worthless editor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.237.151.206 (talk) 10:07, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I like turtles. Eik Corell (talk) 12:41, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Latest source
I have to say that the new source isn't sufficient. My rationale is that it was added "08.21.2010". By itself this wouldn't make a difference, but the article says that you contacted them about it. As I see it, the coverage is actually you getting your your own work listed, as opposed to it being noticed naturally. Eik Corell (talk) 19:01, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Again I have to remind you that the games "being noticed naturally" is difficult when the big US sites didn't even acknowledge that they were released. As for the GameBanshee link, of course I contacted them because this is the way these kind of news get around. How do you think the True Patch for Bloodlines got on GameBanshee or on Kotaku? Still GameBanshee researched the issue themselves which you can see by the download locations they mention which are not the ones that I use. Also if you accept GameBanshee or Kotaku in the Bloodlines article, you need to accept this one here too. Wesp5 (talk) 19:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I know you probably won't accept this as well, but there is a FAQ up at GameSpot right now mentioning the translation patch, and no, it isn't from me: http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/932746-the-precursors/faqs Wesp5 (talk) 07:27, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I also just noticed that there is even a Steam group trying to get Valve to publish the game. Very probably no reliable source for you, but still interesting: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/VtThPrec Wesp5 (talk) 10:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

And another possible source. It's from a Swiss webpage in German and mentions both the German and English patches: http://www.gbase.ch/PC/news/3239/44500.html Wesp5 (talk) 14:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Falcon9x5 made me aware of a list of reliable sources for video games here on Wikipedia on which I found Blues News, so I exchanged the Swiss link mentioned above with it. Wesp5 (talk) 12:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You seem to be putting a lot of work and effort into making this article better, good job dude :) Magicianbink (talk) 02:02, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Precursors


text:
Portal:Pakistan/DYK

 * ... that Rehri Goth, one of the poor neighbourhoods on the outskirts of Karachi, is one of the oldest settlements dating back to the 13th century? (31 March 2024)

 * ... that Burushaski, a predominantly in northern Gilgit-Baltistan spoken rather than written language, has not more than 120,000 native speakers? (9 July 2023)

 * ... that the MagnifiScience Centre in Karachi is the only science center in the country, and, unlike a museum, visitors are encouraged to touch and learn from the interaction with the exhibits? (11 June 2023)

 * ... that Ruth Katherina Martha Pfau, the famous German–Pakistani Catholic nun who devoted more than 55 years of her life to fighting leprosy was the first Christian and first non-Muslim to have a state funeral in Pakistan? (2 September 2021)

 * ... that Lahore Metrobus open in 2013, was modelled after the Istanbul Bus Rapid Transit System. Plans were developed in the last quarter of 2011 by both local and Turkish experts. (31 August 2021)

 * ... that Lahore Knowledge Park is an actualization of Triple Helix configuration; a framework to create synergies between government, academia and industry to operate into an interactive rather than linear model for the establishment of social formats and entities to promote commercial innovation and R&D. (27 January 2017)

 * ... that Karachi Kings is the most expensive franchise team of Pakistan Super League? (04 December 2015)

 * ... that Sialkot is the world's largest producer of hand-sewed footballs, with local factories manufacturing 40~60 million footballs a year, amounting to roughly 60% of world production. (4 December 2017)

 * ... that Hafiz Muhammad Fazal Azim Taha, the famous living Pakistani poet said about Iqbal's work that "He not only dreamed for Pakistan but also got the nation up for their rights". This famous saying is regarded as Iqbal's definition. (14 July 2014)

 * ... that Tajammul Hussain Malik headed an unsuccessful coup attempt against Pakistani dictator General Zia-ul-Haq in 1980? (22 September 2009)

 * ... that the Legal Framework Order, 1970, issued by Gen. Yahya Khan, set the rules for the first direct popular elections in the history of Pakistan? (14 September 2009)

 * ... that in 1881 in the village of Bakhshali in northern Pakistan, the Bakhshali manuscript, the oldest surviving example of Indian mathematics, was discovered written on birch bark? (1 September 2008)

 * ... that the original images of Lord Swaminarayan at the Shri Swaminarayan Temple in Karachi, Pakistan were removed and taken to India during the turbulent times of its partition? (1 September 2008)

 * ... that Saudi Arabia promised to supply 50,000 barrels of free oil per day to help Pakistan if economic sanctions were imposed after its 1998 nuclear tests? (1 September 2008)

 * ... that in a major improvement in bilateral relations in 2008, Pakistan proposed sharing nuclear technology with Bangladesh? (31 August 2008)

 * ... that Abdur Rashid Kardar, a pioneer of the Pakistani film industry in Lahore, was a calligraphist who prepared posters for foreign-made films? (11 July 2008)

 * ... that the Nigar Awards are the oldest awards of merit in the Pakistani film industry? (10 July 2008)

 * ... that Syed Wajid Ali was the longest serving President of the Pakistan Olympic Association with a tenure of 26 years? (7 July 2008)

 * ... that the 1948 film Teri Yaad was the first feature film to be released in Pakistan after the partition of India? (6 July 2008)

 * ... that The Edhi Foundation, founded by Edhi, runs the world's largest volunteer ambulance service operating 1,800 of them with upto 6,000 a day in Karachi alone. (4 December 2017)

More DYK...

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Portal:Pakistan/DYK


text:
Talk:PublishAmerica

A list of sites about or referencing PublishAmerica (in no particular order)

 * The Never Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT) at AbsoluteWrite
 * Pozkin More about PA, from former PA authors
 * The Reasons We Don't Recommend PA - AbsoluteWrite
 * Over The Rainbow - A discussion forum for ex-PA and other writers
 * Frank Baron's Essay about Publish America
 * SF Authors Sting Publish America
 * AP Article Exposes Publish America
 * Washington Post Exposes Publish America
 * Digital Medievalist Essay about Publish America
 * Annotated "The Only Thing You Need to Know About PublishAmerica (Publish America)" Site
 * Sarashay's Wholly Unoffical PublishAmerica Controversy FAQ
 * Book Publisher -- Publish America, a Links Page
 * Science Fiction Writers "The Great Publish America Hoax"
 * Making Light - Tor Editors Teresa and Patrick Nielsen Hayden's post about Publish America
 * Making Light - Teresa Nielsen Hayden's earlier analysis of Publish America's business model
 * SF Writer's Sting Publish America
 * John Scalzi's Essay about Atlanta Nights and Publish America
 * 12 Reasons Why PublishAmerica Is Not Recommended.
 * Phil Dolan`s Arbitration And How To Do It
 * Forensic Accountant Audits PublishAmerica
 * Phil Dolan's Arbitration and other information
 * Ed and Soots Writers Guild
 * Atlanta Nights Press Release
 * Slashdot article-discussion re:Publish America
 * AuthorsLawyer.com Literary Scams: Publish America and Publish Britannica/Britannia
 * Lisa Malaga's Essay on the Publish America Scam "PublishAmerica is PrintAmerica"
 * True Stories about PublishAmerica
 * dawno
 * Amey's PublishAmerica Sucks Blog
 * The PublishAmerica Cult
 * The Dynamics of a PublishAmerica Scam
 * How I Got The Rights To My PA Book Back

Article is unbalanced
Okay, I'm not a fan of Publish America. But this article is waaaaayyyy unbalanced. It provides very little information on the company itself and instead devotes most of its time talking about controversies and criticisms.

I do recall this article being longer in the past. Possibly removing too much info caused it go go lopsided.

Anyway, this article needs attention from an expert or experts to make it more encyclopaedic and not just a rail again the company. Lighthope (talk) 19:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

 * See, that's the annoying thing about certain companies: The bad stuff outweighs the good stuff - and that's not just because people find the critical side more interesting, it's solely because the company itself has done more bad stuff than good stuff, and all of the reliable documentation we have says as much. Even if you can say something good, it probably sounds pretty puny compared to other publishing houses, and you will find someone with authority saying as much. *sigh* However, I'm not saying expanding the un-bloody side is too hard: I'm sure PA has made statements that aren't too widely disputed. What's the acceptance process and royalties (even when they aren't exactly flattering when you put it in words)? How many PA authors and titles are there today? What's the deal with the printing? (Lightning Source vs. their own digital printer; I'm not sure what happens and where.) What was their involvement with the recent Amazon POD spat (where PA was actually the wronged party)? Etc, etc... --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 21:34, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

 * The only information available about the company is what it posts on its website. Some of it has been substanciated, while most of it is weasel-worded (such as "traditional" publisher) in such a way as to be ambiguous. The company has little interest in maintaining a positive image. Hundreds of documented emails which requested current and verifiable information about the company and all the negative claims have gone unanswered while other emails have been replied to with false 'facts' surrounded by hateful personal attacks on the sender(s). They are always signed with a single name (no surnames) from the same AuthorSupport account. The recent edits I made are all backed up by actual emails as well as screencaps posted to the Absolute Write forum. What seems to get edited is some of the more personal accounts of writers who have been scammed by this company and are unable to provide documentation. I have yet to see (and I read this article every time it gets edited) any positive information be removed.-- 05:44, 27 October 2008 (CST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.56.30 (talk)

Article is balanced, its just the company that is a lopsided fraud
I'm tired of JulesH reverting this article without cause. I don't babysit articles so their claims of "no one caring" are crap. This company is a scam. No one can find good information about them (other than the company website) because it doesn't exist! If JulesH is so sure they're a genuine publisher then let them present such evidence. And it better be verified by God Jimbo with triplicate articles from the AP, People & Time as well as being authenticated by the White House. This is a moveable information age. "JulesH doesn't like it" is not a good reason for removing legitimate information. -- 11:00, 14 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.56.30 (talk)

 * If it were up to me, the information would stay. I'm well aware of what PA are.  Unfortunately, Wikipedia has rules about what we can and can't use as sources, so anything that is sourced to a message board or other self-published source is very unlikely to be an acceptable source.  In this case, the link you've been using doesn't even go directly to a post from somebody stating what the paragraph you want to insert said, so I can't even see if the case at hand is one of the unusual situations where such posts are acceptable sources. JulesH (talk) 14:51, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

PA books on Amazon
There's been some reversion back and forth about whether PA books are sold by Amazon.com.

Try this:
 * Go to [ http://www.amazon.com Amazon.com]
 * On the left-hand nav, choose Books
 * Underneath the search box on the top of the page, click the link that says "Advanced Search".
 * On the advanced search form:
 * Set Publisher to "PublishAmerica"
 * Set Condition to "New"
 * Set Format to "Printed Books"
 * click Search

 * On the search results page, look down the left-hand nav, and click:
 * Shipping Option: "Prime Eligible"
 * Shipping Option: "Can be shipped within one business day from Amazon.com"

The end result is several thousand books. Choose any one of them. Just underneath the price, you'll see that it says: In Stock.

'''Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.'''

That is why I keep reverting the edits that say that Amazon doesn't stock and sell PA books. Dori (Talk • Contribs) 19:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

 * On the other hand, there are PA books that Amazon don't sell, e.g. [ http://www.amazon.com/How-Upset-Goliath-Book-PublishAmerica/dp/1413790968/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234388750&sr=8-8 ]. So the issue isn't completely solved. JulesH (talk) 21:46, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Oh, there are plenty of books (both PA and not-PA) that Amazon doesn't sell directly (such as—sob—[ http://www.amazon.com/dp/ASIN/0201748649 ]). The issue here, though, is that some editors want to change the article to say that Amazon neither stocks nor sells PA books, and that's clearly not the case. I consider that particular issue to be solved. If you don't, why not? Dori (Talk • Contribs) 23:04, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The issue as I see it is that before the BookSurge thing, Amazon sold all PA books. Now they only sell a selection of them.  I therefore consider it only partially resolved.  I just wish we had some sources that talked about what's going on, but all the ones I can find are from the period when no PA books were available. JulesH (talk) 08:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Broken links
The following are three broken links. Anyone care to fix them or should they be deleted?

footnote-- a b "SF Authors Sting Publisher". Sci Fi Wire. February 16, 2005. http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?id=30389.

footnote-- "Publisher Defends Hoax Charges". Sci Fi Wire. February 17, 2005. http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?id=30435.

footnote-- Susan Paganini (2004-06-24). "Paperback writer". San Antonio Current. http://www.sacurrent.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12073075&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=484045&rfi=6. Retrieved on 2007-06-06.

Skywriter (talk) 01:50, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I've fixed all three... but let's just say I have a very low opinion of publishers that change their link structure without redirects, and an even worse opinion of publishers that just throw their archives away. Dori ❦ (Talk ❖ Contribs ❖ Review) ❦ 04:25, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Sourced but irrel content
I have removed the following from the article because even though there is a source, there has been nothing shown that this particular action taken by a different company (Amazon) and applied to all parties of the same class as PA and then later rescinded by the third party has ANYTHING worthwile to add to THIS article?

 * For a time in 2008, PublishAmerica books—while remaining listed on Amazon.com—were not sold by Amazon. Amazon was attempting to push print-on-demand publishers (not just PA) to use the Amazon-owned BookSurge printing service.

Vanity Press claims
I've removed the claims that PublishAmerica is a vanity press, as on checking the sources I found that that wasn't the claim they were making. Three sources were used: Frederick News Post, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and The Washington Post. The closest the first gets is the claim:
 * "It's like a vanity press," said Lisa Maliga of Los Angeles. "They get you on the back end, rather than up front."
 * She claims PublishAmerica, while touting itself online as a "traditional" house, really makes its money from its authors, just as a typical vanity press does.

As far as I can interpret that, "like a" isn't the same as "is a", and that reference was the single support for the line "Critics charge that PA's contracts and practices prove the company is a vanity press", for which it is insufficient. The article also states that PublishAmerica lies "somewhere in the middle" between vanity presses and traditional publishers.

The other two references were in support of "Some writers and authors' advocates have accused the company of being a vanity press while representing itself as a 'traditional publisher'." In the Washington Post the same distinction is drawn between vanity presses and traditional publishers, and it states "PublishAmerica doesn't charge authors to produce their books, so authors wary of vanity presses feel reassured." The closest it has is "PublishAmerica [is] a new variant on the old vanity-press model", which once more doesn't state that it is a vanity press, but at least gets close. Pittsburgh Post-Gazette gets the closest to providing support, but even there a distinction is being drawn between vanity press and author mill - two statements almost provide support, though:
 * "While many authors thank the company for championing their books, its claim to be a traditional publisher -- not a vanity press -- has been challenged by writers' organizations such as The Authors Guild and debated on author Web sites such as WritersNet and Absolute Write."

That's really close, but it isn't clear if the challengers are calling it a vanity press or not a traditional publisher. You also get:
 * "They're operating on a vanity press model," Writer Beware's Crispin said.

But again, that falls short of saying that they are one - especially when, elsewhere in the article, the same person says "'We call them an author mill, a publisher that claims to be a traditional publisher and is not,' said A.C. Crispin". If there are other, clearer, sources that would be great - otherwise describing them as an author mill will make more sense and be better supported by the sources. - Bilby (talk) 22:02, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I think "vanity press" is fairly specific, and names when the author pays for the production of a print run, i.e., PA isn't that. But with print on demand, &c., there can be other mostly predatory models, & PA seems to be among them.  "Author mill" sounds general enough -- like "puppy mill".  ABS (talk) 00:40, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:PublishAmerica


text:
Jörg Zander

Jörg Zander (born 15 February 1964 in Ratingen) is a German Formula One car designer.

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Zander graduated from Cologne University in 1990 before joining Toyota. After a brief period working in Touring Cars he returned to Toyota to work on the Formula One project and in 2003 moved to the BAR Formula One team.

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In March 2006, Zander resigned from the Williams team for personal reasons, and immediately joined the BMW Sauber team as Chief Designer, accountable to Technical Director Willy Rampf.

In July 2007, it was announced he had agreed to join the Honda Racing F1. Zander was immediately suspended and then joined Honda. Zander continued in his role with the Brawn GP team, following the management buy-out in March 2009 of the Honda F1 operation, but left the team on 19 June 2009. After leaving Brawn, Zander established an automotive engineering company called JZ Engineering. In October 2011, Zander was in discussions with the HRT F1 team to become its technical director, but the deal fell through.

Zander joined Audi Sport in 2015 as the Head of Technology, and was involved with the sports car team in the World Endurance Championship. After Audi withdrew from the World Endurance Championship at the end of the 2016 season, it was announced that Zander would return to Sauber as Technical Director for the 2017 Formula One season.

On 2 May 2018, 18 months after his start as Technical Director at Sauber, the Swiss team announced Zander had left the team.

title: Jörg Zander


text:
Talk:Reading Recovery

Untitled
I heard somewhere that Australia had dropped the programme citing cost-ineffectiveness ; is there any truth in that and if so shouldn't that be incorporated into the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.96.226 (talk) 10:14, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

This is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, but it reads far more like an advertisement. --Angr/undefined 11:33, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Quite so. it reads like an advertisement, taken directly from the site. This could even be a copyvio, you never know where this sort of stuff comes from. Someone needs to clean it up, and it sure as hell aint gonna be me! Well... not until exams are over anyway. THE KING 11:39, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Cleaned up
The page was not a copyvio: The webpage where it came from was explicitely public domain. BUT, it was pro-Reading Recovery. I cleaned up the following: -- Mkill 20:08, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Deleted the evaluation of the method, this it came from people who make their money with Reading Recovery they don't count as NPOV. I left the link of the source in the article, so people can still access the text. I also added another link which gives a more critical account.
 * I added the names of the people behind the method.
 * Made clear that we are talking about English language reading education, I don't think the method would work to teach Chinese.
 * Made clean Reading Recovery is a trademark, and who holds it.

Reading Recovery is currently used to teach English, French and Spanish language literacy in North America. 173.206.231.16 (talk) 23:26, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Reading Recovery is a very expensive program that the What Works Clearinghouse deemed effective based on its review of 5 studies, most of which were conducted by proponents of the program. The Clearinghouse has research requirements that do not consider "who" conducted the research. The program, in its annual report, does not include data for ALL students who were served by the program. Alleged initial gains made by children do not "stick," because the program fails to incorporate what the National Reading Panel has deemed essential-systematic phonics. Yes...Queensland, Australia has dropped the program entirely because independent analyses demonstrate that children served do not benefit in the long run. Proponents are very quick to "co-opt" language found in the Panel's report, but the "devil is in the details." Check out the statements about the program made by a group of independent, respected, well-known researchers that were posted on the internet not so long ago. The Reading Recovery website even posts tips for "lobbying" congress members so that the program receives funds. In Ohio, the state budget continues to have a line item, approved by the governor, ensuring that public funds are set aside for a program that has failed to produce.

Rrgoo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.201.52.63 (talk) 14:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

In need of cleanup
Beside a much too long introductory paragraph, this entry is full of small errors and larger problems such as a lack of in-line citations and what strikes me as a very non-NPOV. This article looks like the victim of the politicized debate over reading instruction rather than a objective description.

Will work on some of it. CercareVerita (talk) 19:20, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

This article is nothing more than an advertisement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.173.184.70 (talk) 14:39, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Controversies
Not exactly controversy, but in the context of public education it does not seem that this program is the best use of resources. Whilst the program does 'work', there are alternatives which are cheaper and more effective. Given the limited budget for public education, the question of cost effectiveness is very real. This article directed at teachers and parents probably sums it up well http://www.musec.mq.edu.au/community_outreach/musec_briefings#3 "Reading Recovery appears to be mildly effective but possibly not as effective as it should be given its high cost and limited utility." 60.240.207.146 (talk) 06:57, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Advertisement
I added the advert tag to this page, since it appears that this is written from a non-NPOV that is very heavily biased towards this subject, and it appears that talk along these lines has started to develop once or twice in the past ten years on this talk page but nothing's been done yet. Makaristos (talk) 02:22, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Non-Independent Sources?
The "Further Reading" section of the article includes quite a few references to papers published in "The Journal of Reading Recovery" and "Literacy Teaching and Learning". Both of these are controlled by the Reading Recovery Council of North America, an organization which specifically advocates for the Reading Recovery program: https://readingrecovery.org/rrcna/about-rrcna/#_vision-mission.

QUESTION: Should these references be removed?

Tagging in User:Beeblebrox, User:Makaristos, User:Mkill.

Davebraze (talk) 00:38, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The entire section appears almost as long as the article. I would advocate trimming, possibly even removing it. Notable or influential articles perhaps, but not every article written that promotes or disparages this subject. WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Ifnord (talk) 21:40, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Agreed it's way too long without any links. Is it worthwhile to link some of the more recent / more notable? Such as

"Discredited"?
No idea about this program, but the first sentence referring to a concept as "discredited" and citing a couple papers from last year seems pretty non-Neutral-POV. BoosterBronze (talk) 20:00, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

 * There's a lot of further reading to do. A good introduction is Emily Hanford's reporting (more narrative reporting here); the footnotes there are extensive.
 * The fact seems to be that while this the three-cueing method is popular, it is not effective. It's about as discredited as any educational intervention possibly can be. I can add more footnotes there, but we shouldn't be afraid to be clear about the facts. NPOV means that we don't push our own opinions; it doesn't mean that we can't include inconvenient or less-well-accepted facts. grendel|khan 19:03, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Reading Recovery has not been discredited
Reading Recovery was reevaluated by the What Works Clearinghouse in 2023, following a study that many point to as discrediting the intervention. However, that research study was found in reevaluation to have multiple problems that delimit the studies findings:

1.        There was a 75% attrition rate in the study. Only 25% of the original group of students were available for data collection. Additionally, third-grade test scores were available for approximately 27% of the total sample and fourth-grade test scores were available for approximately 17% of the total number of control students. This level of attrition delimits any inferences that can be drawn from this study. 2.        The control group and the treatment group were not equivalent. The control group students did not receive Reading Recovery because they were not the lowest literacy learners in their first-grade classrooms and were able to learn with classroom teaching. 3.        The types of instructional support and materials provided in years, two, three, and four were not considered by May’s study. May’s study indicated that children did not continue to make adequate progress over time. However, it is important to note that in interviews, the author of this study recommended schools continue using Reading Recovery and provide further monitoring to maintain the highly positive early effects of the intervention. At the same conference, a study from the United Kingdom, Hurry, Fridkin and Holliman’s study showed long-term positive effects of Reading Recovery on UK students at age 16. Multiple longitudinal studies on Reading Recovery outcomes in the U.S. have shown positive results. Other peer-reviewed studies show positive long-term gains, including "Reading intervention at age 6: Long-term effects of Reading Recovery in the UK on qualifications and support at age 16." [16]

Reading Recovery has twice been found effective by US Department of Education's What Works Clearinghouse and also by Evidence for ESSA. Uberbink (talk) 14:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

 * One study that even calls out its limitations does not prove it is effective. Multiple other studies, independent third part sources all state it doesn't work.-- VViking Talk Edits 14:58, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, there are dozens of quantitative and qualitative studies that prove Reading Recovery's effectiveness. The key is to look at peer-reviewed scholarly research, not news media which has a biased slant.
 * The intervention came under fire due to a podcast which used cherry-picked research, glossing over the strong research base. I encourage you to consult the latest research presentation from Maren Aukerman for a primer on what science actually says. It's really quite eye-opening! [Https://media.ithaca.edu/media/Maren+Aukerman+2024+Ithaca+College+Educational+Freedom+Lecture/1 rvncpvoa https://media.ithaca.edu/media/Maren+Aukerman+2024+Ithaca+College+Educational+Freedom+Lecture/1_rvncpvoa]
 * Aukerman, M. (2024, February 22). Toward comprehensive, research-informed literacy instruction: Thinking with, against, and beyond the science of reading. [Webinar]. Ithaca College Department of Education 2024 Educational Freedom Lecture and Community Uberbink (talk) 15:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The article no longer states that RR is "discredited". That adjective has been removed from the lead. But the article retains the cited information about the program's limitations and its disfavor among the various countries where it was used. So far, you've presented one source that contradicts the "discredited" assessment (Fridkin and Holliman). Your other sources are not accessible. (The Ithaca.edu link is paywalled, and Aukerman's webinar does not show up on a Google Scholar search.) You haven't even provided citations to verify your claims about the "What Works Clearinghouse" and "Evidence for ESSA" evaulations. If you can provide sufficient support for these counter-claims, I could see a second paragraph under the Reevaluation section to present these contravening claims.  WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 15:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you, WikiDan61. I did originally submit a second paragraph under reevaluation with the following citations but they reverted despite the citations added below. Perhaps I did it incorrectly? I appreciate the guidance in clearing up this misinformation. A pop culture podcast should not be allowed supplant peer-reviewed research on such an important topic!
 * Additional support for counter claims:
 * - The Maren Aukerman webinar is a free resource that should not require login: The citation for this resource is:
 * Aukerman, M. (2024, February 22). Toward comprehensive, research-informed literacy instruction: Thinking with, against, and beyond the science of reading. [Webinar]. Ithaca College Department of Education 2024 Educational Freedom Lecture and Community. https://media.ithaca.edu/media/Maren+Aukerman+2024+Ithaca+College+Educational+Freedom+Lecture/1_rvncpvoa
 * - Reading Recovery is rated "Strong" by Evidence for ESSA, Center for Research and Reform in Education (CRRE) at Johns Hopkins University School of Education: https://www.evidenceforessa.org/program/reading-recovery/
 * - Reading Recovery has been twice verified as the highest rating literacy intervention by the What Works Clearinghouse, an investment of the Institute of Education Sciences (IES) within the U.S. Department of Education:
 * - 2013: https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/WWC/Docs/InterventionReports/wwc_readrecovery_071613.pdf
 * - 2023: https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/WWC/Docs/InterventionReports/WWC_RR_IR-report.pdf
 * - Also notable in the 2023 report is this statement debunking the May 2022 studies that is currently used in the current reevaluation section: "Two of these studies (May & Blakeney, 2022 and May et al., 2022) report using regression discontinuity designs, but the WWC determined that they were not eligible for review as regression discontinuity designs. The WWC requires that regression discontinuity designs analyze the actual measure that was used to assign students to the intervention or comparison conditions, called a forcing variable. However, these studies analyzed an alternative forcing variable that was not used to assign students to treatment conditions. Because these studies were not eligible for review as regression discontinuity designs, the WWC instead reviewed these two studies as quasi-experimental designs. Ten studies, including May and Blakeney (2022) and May et al. (2022), do not satisfy the baseline equivalence requirement because there is inconclusive evidence that the intervention and comparison groups were similar before introducing the intervention."
 * - Jesson, R. and Aitken, J. (2022): Aligned with the sciences: How does Reading Recovery teach phonics? published in the Literacy Forum NZ, 37(3).
 * - The Sold a Story podcast cited multiple times through the current listing has been discredited by numerous literacy experts and scholars as biased and driven by corporate interests, including:
 * - Thomas, P.L. (2022). The Science of Reading movement: The never-ending debate and the need for a different approach to reading instruction. Boulder, CO: National Education Policy Center. Retrieved 02/29/2024 from http://nepc.colorado.edu/publication/science-of-reading Uberbink (talk) 16:45, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Reading Recovery


text:
James Charles Dale

James Charles Dale (13 December 1791 – 6 February 1872) was an English naturalist who devoted almost all of his adult life to entomology.

Family
Dale was the only son of Dorset landowner James Dale of Glanvilles Wootton and his wife, Mary Kelloway Barton. Late in life, 28 December 1848, at Eltham Kent he married for the first time Lucy Marianne (1821–1875), eldest sister of Dr Henry Wylde. She is reported to have accompanied him on some of his expeditions. They were to have two sons, Charles William Dale (1851–1906) best known as a lepidopterist and dipterist but he also published notes on other insects including coleoptera, and Edward Robert Dale (1853–1903) who described himself as an entomologist and electrical engineer when the use of electricity was still in its infancy.

Career
Dale received his education at Wimborne Grammar School and Sidney Sussex College Cambridge University receiving his MA in 1818. He was a magistrate. On one occasion a cloud of butterflies was released into Dale's magistrate court. His most famous discovery was the Lulworth skipper.

He was a friend of James Francis Stephens, frequently mentioned in that author's Illustrations of British Entomology and of John Curtis who refers to him frequently in his British Entomology. Another close friend was the Irish entomologist Alexander Henry Haliday. The references are mainly to Coleoptera though Dale worked on all Orders.

His first note, on Lepidoptera was published, in the Magazine of Natural History in 1830. This was followed by some 83 further notes and articles covering a wide range of topics.

He was elected a member of the first Entomological Society of London on 25 June 1822. He was appointed High Sheriff of Dorset for 1843.

Collections
Dale's collection is in the Hope Department of Entomology.The Dalean collection was housed in 33 cabinets when it was received at Oxford in 1906, of which five cabinets were devoted to Coleoptera. Included in the latter are four drawers of Thomas Vernon Wollaston beetles from Madeira, Cape Verde, Canary Islands and St. Helena. It is still housed separately from the main collections. Dale's manuscripts and notebooks are in the Hope Library.

Works
Partial list
 * 1834- The authorship of many insects described by Dale in British Entomology is often given to  Curtis, however it is clearly stated by Curtis that the authorship is Dale's and from "Dale MSS"
 * 1834 A List of the more rare of the Species of Insects found on Parley Heath, on the Borders of Hampshire Loudon's Magazine of Natural History.
 * 1841 Beris Morrisii of Curtis's Guide Entomologist. 1(1840–1842): 175-
 * 1842. Descriptions, &c. of a few rare or undescribed species of British Diptera, principally from the collection of J. C. Dale, Esq., M. A., F. L. S., &c. Ann. Mag. Nat. Hist. 8: 430–433.
 * Dale, J.C. 1863. Miscellaneous captures near Tenby. The Weekly Entomologist, 2: 262–263.
 * Catalogue of the Coleopterous Insects of Dorsetshire', in Nat., 2, 1837, pp. 408–415, and 3, 1838, pp. 12–18.

title: James Charles Dale


text:
User talk:PseudoKirby

June 2007
Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. However, adding content without citing a reliable source, as you did to Capcom, is not consistent with our policy of verifiability. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. ''Microsoft have been rumored to be buying Capcom for years. Please don't add rumors to Wikipedia, unless you're prepared to cite a reliable source.'' Tlesher 04:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

 * The "Microsoft Buys Capcom" link you provided on my user page, http://news.yahoo.com/s/Microsoft/20070619/MSCP/133037, appears to be broken. In any event, if you do have a link to a reputable source, go ahead and add the news to Capcom--but do make sure that the referencing link works. Tlesher 04:20, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

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Removal of tags from images
Hi, I've been doing some image copyright cleanup, and I noticed on several occasions when someone had tagged an image as lacking some necessary information (source, or fair use rationale), you simply removed the tag without adding a rationale. Please don't ever do that again. For one thing, it won't save the images from being deleted — I've just deleted a few of them. For another, it may lead to your account being blocked. I notice that those images in question were not originally uploaded by you. If you have any questions about our image policy, you can ask at Media copyright questions. Thank you. ElinorD (talk) 13:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

August 2007
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. --Imroy 06:16, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

February 2008
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we must insist that you assume good faith while interacting with other editors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. --McGeddon (talk) 11:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Well people are pissing me off with there analitity if that is even a word PseudoKirby (talk) 11:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that happens on Wikipedia. It's important to rise above it and just get your point across, though - if you insult another editor, they'll find it harder to take your criticism seriously, even if you're making a good point. --McGeddon (talk) 16:06, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

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Hello, PseudoKirby, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of your edits have not conformed to Wikipedia's verifiability policy, and have been reverted. Wikipedia articles should refer only to facts and interpretations that have been stated in print or on reputable websites or other forms of media. Always remember to provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed. Wikipedia also has a related policy against including original research in articles.

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Re: Cry On
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January 2010
Welcome to Wikipedia. The recent edit that you made to the page Toyota 3S-GTE engine has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Please use the sandbox for testing any edits; if you believe the edit was constructive, please ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing for further information. Thank you. Cpl Syx [talk] 00:50, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Hey, jackass, its not unconstructive, I am combining the articles like it has been suggestedo n the pages, they all belong to the same S Engine Family, Stop Undoing my fucking work

3SGTE 3SGE and 5SFE all belong in the same page

PseudoKirby (talk) 00:56, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did with this edit to the page Toyota 3S-GE engine. Such edits constitute vandalism and are reverted. Please do not continue to make unconstructive edits to pages; use the sandbox for testing. Thank you. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Please do not vandalize pages, as you did with this edit to Toyota 3S-GE engine. If you continue to do so, you will be blocked from editing. HappyInGeneral (talk) 01:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Regarding the S family engines. It's been discussed in the past whether the 3S-GE and 3S-GTE articles should be merged into the S article but no conclusive agreement was made. I think people are reacting a bit to your major changes. Please feel free to discuss on the 3S-GE or 3S-GTE talk page if you feel merging is a good idea. But beware - swearing will diminish your credibility. Cheers.  Stepho  (talk) 04:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

If you look there isnt any other engine that gets its own page, they are apart of the engine family pages, RB26DETT, 2JZ-GTE, LS1, 4G63T, SR20DET, EJ205, 13B, K20A.... on top of it, the information is already in the S family class, you leave those other articles up its just redundancy... PseudoKirby (talk) 06:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Now tell it to the others on the 3S-GE talk page. I have a few pros and cons but I want to discuss it on the page in question.  Stepho  (talk) 07:02, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

uh the last posts on the discussion are about 2 years old.... I dont think anyone cares.. PseudoKirby (talk) 20 January 2010 (UTC)

People are reverting your changes - proof that they care. If you want them to stop reverting then you will have to give some reasons. I've opened a new section on the 3S-GE talk page for this.  Stepho  (talk) 08:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

June 2013
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at The Last of Us. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted or removed. Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive, until the dispute is resolved through consensus. Continuing to edit disruptively could result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Trut-h-urts man (T • C) 18:04, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
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ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:08, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:PseudoKirby


text:
Spitamenes

Spitamenes (Old Persian Spitamana; Greek Σπιταμένης; 370 BC – 328 BC) was a Sogdian warlord and the leader of the uprising in Sogdiana and Bactria against Alexander the Great, King of Macedon, in 329 BC. He has been credited by modern historians as one of the most tenacious adversaries of Alexander.

Biography
Spitamenes was an ally of Bessus. In 329 BC, Bessus stirred a revolt in the eastern satrapies, and the same year his allies began to be uncertain about supporting him. Alexander went with his army to Drapsaca, outflanked Bessus and sent him fleeing. Bessus was then removed from power by Spitamenes, and Ptolemy was sent to catch him.

While Alexander was founding the new city of Alexandria Eschate on the Jaxartes river, news came that Spitamenes had roused Sogdiana against him and was besieging the Macedonian garrison in Markanda. Too occupied at that time to personally lead an army against Spitamenes, Alexander sent an army under the command of Pharnuches which was promptly annihilated with a loss of no less than 2,000 infantry and 300 cavalry.

The uprising now posed a direct threat to his army, and Alexander moved personally to relieve Markanda, only to learn that Spitamenes had left Sogdiana and was attacking Bactria, from where he was repulsed with great difficulty by the satrap of Bactria, Artabazos II (328 BC).

The decisive point came in December 328 BC when Spitamenes was defeated by Alexander's general Coenus at the Battle of Gabai. Spitamenes was killed by some treacherous nomadic tribes' leaders and they sent his head to Alexander, suing for peace.

Spitamenes had a daughter, Apama, who was married to one of Alexander's most important generals and an eventual Diadochi, Seleucus I Nicator (February 324 BC). The couple had a son, Antiochus I Soter, a future ruler of the Seleucid Empire. Several towns were named Apamea in her honour.

In fiction
Spitamenes is a character in Steven Pressfield's novel The Afghan Campaign.

title: Spitamenes


text:
Talk:St Albans School, Hertfordshire

Any reference for the "loan" story?
This bit was added on the 9th of January, 2010:

 * On 7 January 2010, the Herts Advertiser ran an article reporting that a loan of £1000 at the rate of 6% p.a. was given by the school to the city of St Albans in 1722. The St Albans City and District Council, though it acknowledges the loan, has not made any repayments on it. As of 2012, the debt stands at £21,800,000,000 (21 billion 800 million pounds).

But has no cite and nothing substantiating it comes up on Google. Anyone got a cite? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.191.204.101 (talk) 20:20, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:St Albans School, Hertfordshire


text:
Groote Schuur

Groote Schuur (, Dutch for "big shed") is an estate in Cape Town, South Africa. In 1657, the estate was owned by the Dutch East India Company which used it partly as a granary. Later, the farm and farmhouse was sold into private hands. Groote Schuur was later acquired by William De Smidt, and remained in the family's possession until it was sold by Abraham De Smidt, Surveyor General of the Cape Colony, in 1878, and was bought by Hester Anna van der Byl of the prominent Van Der Byl / Coetsee family. In 1891 Cecil Rhodes leased it from her. He later bought it from her in 1893 for £60 000, and had it converted and refurbished by the architect Sir Herbert Baker. The Cape Dutch building, located in Rondebosch, on the slopes of Devil's Peak, the outlying shoulder of Table Mountain, was originally part of the Dutch East India Company's granary constructed in the seventeenth century.

Little of the original house remained after a fire in 1896. The traditional thatched roof was replaced by sturdier Welsh slates. Rhodes gave no strict instructions as to what he wanted from Baker. Rhodes abhorred any mechanically made items (such as hinges for windows) in the house and set out to remove them and have them replaced with brass and bronze items that would be cast. Baker replaced the front of the house, added a long stoep in the back and constructed a new wing. The wing contained a billiard room and master bedroom above on the second floor that contained a large bay window overlooking Devil's Peak. He also added a grand hall with a massive fireplace.

Sir Herbert Baker also played a significant role in the furnishing of the house. After initially furnishing with modern furniture from London, Rhodes, influenced by Baker, began a shift from the modern to more traditional Cape furniture. This would mark the beginning of Cecil Rhodes’ collection of colonial furnishings.

The gardens of the house were as Rhodes demanded 'masses of colour'. Surrounding the house was a mass of roses, hydrangeas, cannas, bougainvilleas and fuchsias. Farther away from the house on the slopes of Devil's Peak, Rhodes kept antelopes, zebra, eland, wildebeest and ostriches.

Rhodes was always a generous host while at Groote Schuur. He used the residence as much as a business and political headquarters as a home. His life at the time was one of dinner parties and meetings on the stoep, where he would be joined by as many as fifty people.

From 1910 to 1984, it was the official Cape residence of the Prime Ministers of South Africa and continued as a presidential residence of P. W. Botha and F. W. De Klerk. However, P. W. Botha never resided there, opting rather to live in Westbrooke.

In May 1956, Time magazine reported, "a party was held at Groote Schuur for South Africa's Nationalist Prime Minister Johannes Strydom after he had won the parliamentary campaign to continue white supremacy in a land of 2.6 million whites and 10 million nonwhites. The party was given by some of the younger nationalists and their wives to honor him. They organized a caravan of 130 vehicles and slowly drove up to the Groote Schuur. After reaching the house, they began to sing old Boer war songs—the Volksliederen of the Transvaal and Orange Free State. A speech was given by Mrs. M. D. J. Koster, the only female member of the parliament, 'Every white woman and every white mother thanks you from the depth of her heart.' Strydom’s response to this was, 'We must never be swerved from our goals ... the struggle must continue.

The building was the site for the signing of the historic "Groote Schuur Minute" between Nelson Mandela, of the African National Congress (ANC), and F. W. De Klerk, the then State President of the Republic of South Africa, on 4 May 1990. The document was a commitment between the two parties towards the resolution of the existing climate of violence and intimidation as well as a commitment to stability and to a peaceful process of negotiations. A working party was established to investigate the granting of temporary immunity to ANC cadres, to advise on how to deal with the release of political prisoners and to make recommendations on the definition of political offences.

Under Nelson Mandela, as President of the Republic of South Africa, the Genadendal building (formerly called Westbrooke) became the Cape Town residence of the South African President. Groote Schuur is now a museum and open to the public only by appointment.

title: Groote Schuur


text:
User talk:Ushurma.Caucasus

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User talk:Pra 143

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User talk:Susanamf~enwiki

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User talk:Phk5482

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User talk:Kuokseong

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User talk:CapsLock~enwiki

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Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called CapsLock. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name CapsLock~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

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User talk:Tuneless

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Speedy deletion nomination of Martin Jenkins (musician)

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User talk:Divermarv

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User talk:Emaniti2006

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User talk:Fisshus

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Ljiljan

Ljiljan was a Bosnian weekly news-political and cultural news magazine. It is named after the golden Bosnian lily, which is considered the national symbol of the Bosniak people. It was founded by the Party of Democratic Action (SDA) (Stranka demokratske akcije) in 1990 as a successor to Muslimanski Glas (Muslims' Voice), the official bulletin of the party. With the name change it obtained a formal editorial independence, though it still reflected conservative Bosniak political positions, close to the SDA party. For instance, figures connected to Ljiljan have been known to oppose mixed marriages between Bosniaks, Croats and Serbs, deeming them an imposition from the Socialist times. It was published in Sarajevo and distributed in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina and abroad. In 1996 its circulation was 60,000 copies, of which 85% abroad.

In a 1998 study, Ljiljan was found to proactively employ Turkish, Arabic, and Persian loanwords over Slavic equivalents as a symbolic affirmation of Islamic identity. In a similar 2002 study, the magazine was also found, along with Dnevni avaz, which also has a Bosniak nationalist orientation, to favour a conservative approach to linguistic standards of the Bosnian language rather than liberally employing terms which are considered "Serbian" or "Croatian."

title: Ljiljan


text:
Jean-Jacques Waltz

Jean-Jacques Waltz (23 February 1873, Colmar – 10 June 1951), also known as "Oncle Hansi", or simply "Hansi" ("little John") was a French artist of Alsatian origin. He was a staunch pro-French activist, and is famous for his quaint drawings, some of which contain harsh critiques of the Germans of the time. He was also a French hero of both the First and the Second World Wars.

Early life
Jean-Jacques Waltz was born in Colmar the 23 February 1873, two years after the annexation of Alsace by the German Empire following the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1.

He worked as an artist for the textile industry, and drew postcards and programmes for local events. He started publishing satirical works in 1908 under the pseudonym "Hansi", making particular fun of German tourists.

First satirical works and First World War
Hansi became famous with his polemical satiric work Professor Knatschke (1912), which became a best-seller in France, as well as several other militant works. He came to incarnate the symbol of pro-French Alsatians, especially among "revanchist" French intellectuals such as Maurice Barrès.

Hansi was imprisoned several times by the German authorities for making fun of the German military and professors, culminating in a one-year sentence given by the tribunal of Leipzig in July 1914. This caused a national outrage in France, making headlines in newspapers and inspiring two editorials by Clemenceau.

Hansi eventually escaped to France, having crossed the frontier at the Schlucht on 14 July and arriving in Belfort, where he joined the military as a translator-officer when the First World War broke out.

Late life
In 1940, Hansi, still wanted by the Gestapo for his militant works and his treason of 1914, had to flee into Vichy, France. He was attacked by the Nazis in Agen, and fled to Switzerland.

Badly wounded because of this attack, he remained weak until he died in 1951.

Legacy
Hansi is now archetypal of Alsace folklore. His original books, published in a few thousand copies, are valued among collectors. It is very common to find plates and every-day items decorated with his drawings. His books have been republished several times.

Works

 * Professor Knatschke
 * Le voyage d'Erika en Alsace Française
 * L'Histoire d'Alsace Racontée aux Petits Enfants d'Alsace et de France par l'Oncle Hansi
 * Mon Village, ceux qui n'oublient pas
 * L' Alsace Heureuse
 * Le Paradis Tricolore
 * A travers les lignes ennemies
 * L'Alsace
 * Colmar en France
 * Colmar, guide illustré des champs de bataille
 * Les clochers dans les Vignes
 * Au pied de la Montagne Ste Odile
 * La fresque de Geispolsheim et autres balivernes
 * La merveilleuse Histoire du bon Saint Florentin
 * Les armes des villes et des communes 80 documents héraldiques dessinés et commentés par JJ Waltz
 * Les armes des tribus et des corporations et emblèmes des artisans
 * Les armes des nobles et des bourgeois
 * Souvenir d'un annexé récalcitrant

Honours

 * Commandor of the Légion d'Honneur
 * Croix de Guerre 1914-1918 with palms
 * Croix de Guerre 1939-1945 with palms

title: Jean-Jacques Waltz


text:
User:Figaro/Articles of interest

pages to work on:

2001 and a Bit — airdate = 26 October, 1976

Guest
 * Oliver Gilbert as "Jimmy Hill"

Prologue and profiles

The Goodies have gone their separate ways. They each have an adult son. Their sons are:
 * Bill Brooke-Taylor
 * Tim's son Bill resembles Bill Oddie, but he is similar in nature to Tim Brooke-Tayor.
 * Bill Brooke-Taylor wears similar conservative clothes to Tim, including wearing a Union Jack waistcoat.
 * Bill Brooke-Taylor also makes patriotic speeches to the music of "'Land of Hope and Glory''"
 * (Tim comments that his son, Bill, is a credit to the Brooke-Taylors – a right little crawler).

 * Graeme Oddie
 * Bill's son Graeme resembles Graeme Garden, but he acts very much like Bill Oddie.
 * Graeme Oddie, who is an eccentric and violent sportsman, wears sports clothes.

 * Tim Garden
 * Graeme's son Tim resembles Tim Brooke-Taylor, but his interests are similar to those of Graeme Garden.
 * Tim Garden is vague and thoughtful, and has an interest in science, and wears clothes similar to Graeme Garden.

Plot

It is a more permissive era, and life has become dull and boring for the world at large. Since everything is now permitted, nothing is exciting, and even the popular violent spectator sport of "Rollerball (1975 film)|rollerball" is treated as Wiktionary:passé|passé. Jimmy Hill, who is now a very old man with a long beard, greets sports on his programme with the same level of boredom as the rest of the population.

The New Goodies, led by Bill Brooke-Taylor, want to add some excitement to the lives of the people, and to get them excited about something again. In the attempt to add more excitement to 'rollerball', Graeme Oddie (a leading competitor of violent sports), and some of his equally violent friends, modify the game to 'rolleregg', a combination of an egg and spoon race and 'rollerball'. Graeme Oddie is the leading competitor for 'rolleregg'.

Bill Brooke-Taylor wants to resurrect the ancient game ofCricket, with the idea that that something which is truly boring might be enough of a novelty to be interesting to the population. He asks his father, Tim, about the Marylebone Cricket Club|MCC. Tim decides to take his son to the retirement home for old cricketers the "MCC Sanctuary'", where Bill and Graeme are now residing in their old age. To travel to the retirement home, both Tim and his son, Bill, wear automatic motorised shoes.

At Lord's Cricket Ground, Tim Garden finds The Ashes|a tiny urn full of ashes in a cupboard. Assuming that the urn was full of dust, Tim Garden empties the ashes onto the floor. Then, he finds a discarded 'cricket box, and, assuming that it is a hat of some sort, he places it on his head. Tim Garden also puts the stumps and cricket bat to a new and novel use.

With help from the former members of the Marylebone Cricket Club|MCC, cricket is revived, and the commentators for the match are Bill Brooke-Taylor, Tim Garden, and a robot. However, people who go to a cricket match to find out what it is like, become quickly bored — they have been reared on far more violent games. So a compromise is reached — the "rolleregg" side, led by Graeme Oddie, is pitted against the aging MCC members.

After being continually struck on the body with cricket balls bowled by the cricket players, the humiliated "rolleregg" players decide to use an enormous robot to bat from, but they are still defeated by the MCC members. After a final Wiktionary:searing|searing victory against Graeme Oddie by the aging Tim and Bill, the MCC members inherit the Earth and retain "the Ashes" — and the MCC members are still marching on – somewhere.

Quotes

Quote 1
 * Raquel Welch had given birth to triplets after the Goodies had all had simultaneous affairs with her. She named the babies after the three Goodies — and the Goodies then each adopted one of the baby boys.

 * Tim (showing a photo of the babies to his son, Bill):
 * "When these three were born, we did not know who the father was, so we each took one ..."
 * Tim (pausing, and looking at his son, Bill): "... sometimes I think we might have made a mistake"

Quote 2
 * Bill Brooke-Taylor:
 * There's a deathly hush at Lord's Cricket Ground|Lord's tonight,
 * The pitch lies covered in weeds,
 * Willow and leather crack no more together,
 * But that's what the country needs.
 * We'll show them all with bat and ball,
 * In spite of our lumbago,
 * We're not caught out by Frog or Kraut,
 * Nor greasy Wop nor Dago.
 * If you're one who plays for five long days,
 * Trying desperately to draw,
 * If you stop each ball like a concrete wall,
 * 'Till they let out a mighty snore,
 * If you can run a gallant one
 * Between 10 AM and tea,
 * But above all, if you can bore 'em stiff,
 * You're the pride of the Marylebone Cricket Club|MCC!

Spoofs and imitations
 * Jimmy Hill — who was a genuine commentator for '''BBC]]'s Match of the Day.
 * Rollerball (1975 film)|Rollerball
 * Egg and spoon race
 * Cricket
 * The Ashes
 * Marylebone Cricket Club|MCC

Animals — airdate = 11 February, 1980

This episode is also known as "Animal Liberation"

Guests
 * Mel Smith, Patrick Moore, Ronnie Storm, Ernie Goodyear

Plot

Tim has been collecting various animals to take part in showbiz. However, Bill and Graeme have other ideas and put the animals to work in energy-saving domestic duties. Tim is horrified at what they have done.

Animals are granted equal rights with humans and it is now illegal for humans to exploit animals.

In the end, the humans have to disguise themselves as rabbits to escape from the fury of the animals.

Spoofs and imitations
 * David Attenborough
 * David Bellamy
 * David Frost (broadcaster)|David Frost
 * Watership Down (film)|Watership Down

Animals are People Too — airdate = 13 February, 1982

This episode is also known as "Pets".

Plot

Tim has bought a dog from Graeme, but the dog does not obey Tim's orders.

Tim returns the dog to Graeme, who then sells him a 'new model dog'.

Spoofs and imitations
 * Barbara Woodhouse

Earthanasia — airdate = 22 December, 1977

"Earthanasia" is an episode of the United Kingdom|British comedy television series The Goodies (TV series)|The Goodies.

This episode is also known as "The End of the World Show".

Plot

It is very late Christmas Eve and Bill wants to go out. However, before he can leave, there is an announcement that the world is going to end at midnight. There is general widespread panic, but shoppers are still interested in reaching stores, including Harrods, for their closing down sales.

Tim arrives wearing a placade stating "The End of the World is Wiktionary:Nigh|Nigh", little realising how accurate the words actually are. When Tim is told that the world really was about to end, he brings out the iron and ironing board, so that his clothes will be nice and neat, and wants to shine his shoes. Tim also worries about how The Muppets[ will cope with what was about to happen (much to the surprise of Graeme, who had thought that Tim was aware that the Muppets were really puppets).

There is a news announcement that a rocket was seen to take off, taking with it a certain Royal family.

The Goodies share their feelings and their worst embarrassments, and also their fears, with the others, and set about trying to catch up with the years of birthday parties and Christmas parties that they would be missing in the future. However, there is only enough time left to celebrate one.

Revelations
 * Bill states that he has bought himself a skateboard for Christmas (but as the episode progresses, it becomes clear that he already owns one).
 * Bill lists his fantasy women as Jane Fonda, the Three Degrees and Ivy Benson's trumpet section.
 * Tim sings part of the famous David Rose composition, the Stripper.
 * Bill shaved his beard off for this episode, certain that it would get a laugh, but the audience's reaction is one of shock more than amusement.

Goofs
 * A boom shadow is clearly visible when Bill knocks a hole in the wall to provide a chimney for Santa.

References
 * "The Complete Goodies" — Robert Ross, B T Batsford, London, 2000
 * "The Goodies Rule OK" — Robert Ross, Carlton Books Ltd, Sydney, 2006
 * "From Fringe to Flying Circus — 'Celebrating a Unique Generation of Comedy 1960-1980'" — Roger Wilmut, Eyre Methuen Ltd, 1980
 * "The Goodies Episode Summaries" — Brett Allender
 * "The Goodies — Fact File" — Matthew K. Sharp

External links
 * imdb title|id=885848|title=The End of the World Show
 * ("Earthanasia" is listed under an alternative title at IMDb)

title: User:Figaro/Articles of interest


text: User talk:212.219.189.245

title: User talk:212.219.189.245


text: User talk:DiePalme

title: User talk:DiePalme


text:
Kollengode

Kollengode may refer to:

 * Kollengode, Palakkad, a town in Palakkad district, Kerala, India
 * Kollengode Palace, in Palakkad district
 * Kollengode railway station, in Palakkad District

title: Kollengode