text:
Talk:River Rouge (Michigan)

External link elimination
This article is rife with inappropriate inline external links that should be moved to the reference section or eliminated altogether. I don't have time to do any more at the moment but will return to the task as time permits. Julietdeltalima  (talk)  20:04, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on River Rouge (Michigan). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120127173532/http://www.henryfordestate.com/ to http://www.henryfordestate.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100609063714/http://www.miseagrant.umich.edu/greenways/greenway08-rouge-river.html to http://www.miseagrant.umich.edu/greenways/greenway08-rouge-river.html
 * Added tag to http://detroit1701.org/River

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 03:45, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:River Rouge (Michigan)


text:
Talk:River Raisin

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on River Raisin. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131015221737/http://www.freep.com/article/20101012/NEWS05/101012056/1322/Monroe-hands-over-battlefield-land-for-national-park to http://www.freep.com/article/20101012/NEWS05/101012056/1322/Monroe-hands-over-battlefield-land-for-national-park

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 21:18, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Some potential sources
jp×g 02:05, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
 * https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-09/documents/1987_river_raisin_rap_0.pdf
 * https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/SR23_542269_7.pdf

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:River Raisin


text: Talk:Rabbit River (Michigan)

title: Talk:Rabbit River (Michigan)


text: Talk:Paw Paw River

title: Talk:Paw Paw River


text:
Fred Kohlmar

Fred Kohlmar (August 10, 1905 - October 13, 1969) was a New York City-born film producer. The former agent worked as an executive assistant to Samuel Goldwyn before becoming a producer in the 1930s. He worked for 20th Century Fox, Paramount Pictures, and Columbia Pictures. Lee Kohlmar was his father.

Selected filmography

 * The Lone Wolf Strikes (1940)
 * The Lady Has Plans (1942)
 * Take a Letter, Darling (1942)
 * The Dark Corner (1946)
 * Kiss of Death (1947)
 * The Ghost and Mrs. Muir (1947)
 * My Sister Eileen (1955)
 * Picnic (1955)
 * Pal Joey
 * The Wackiest Ship in the Army (1960)
 * Bye Bye Birdie (1963)
 * How to Steal a Million (1966)

title: Fred Kohlmar


text:
Talk:Ottawa River (Lake Erie)

Estuary of the Ottawa River
The peninsula that lies between the estuary of the Ottawa River and Maumee Bay is know as 'Point Place'. It was once a summer resort but eventually was annexed into the city of Toledo. But not all of it. The northern tip (about ½ mile long) lies in Michigan and is known as 'Lost Peninsula'. GPS coordinates: +41.740583, -083.454592. Musicwriter 03:50, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Wrong river
The right column of the article links to Category:Ottawa River in the Commons, which is a completely different river in Canada (Ottawa River). Does anyone know how to remove that link from the article, because the Ottawa River (Lake Erie) article has no images within the Commons? —Notorious4life (talk) 23:04, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ottawa River (Lake Erie)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kelsey Frenk

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Speedy deleted --Doc (?) 21:36, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Kelsey Frenk
Vanity page Bob Palin 16:51, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete - as the nominator says. Rob Church Talk 17:00, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, unless there's some kind of media coverage of her invention, which seems unlikely. Kappa 17:24, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete - as A7 JoJan 18:08, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete as per WP:CSD A7 and nominator. Hall Monitor 18:19, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - A7 (no claim on notability of person) doesn't apply due to the silly claim she "... invented tissue for handicapped children". Maybe G1(nonsense) though.  Anyhow, as long as it's deleted, that's what counts.  --rob 20:33, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedied - nn-bio, per WP:CSD the only claim to notability here was patently nonsensical --Doc (?) 21:36, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text: Talk:Muskegon River

title: Talk:Muskegon River


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/4 color rebellion

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. Wikiacc (talk) 20:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

4 color rebellion
vote for deletion of 4 color rebellion

 * Delete: Personal web page, unworthy of a wiki entry -- Ritchy 4 October 2005
 * Delete - non-notable. Rob Church Talk 16:59, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * This afd nomination was orphaned. Listing now.  Delete, fails WP:WEB.  Alexa rank 134,582, no evidence of national media attention presented, 276-member forum. —Cryptic (talk) 10:15, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Masterhatch 10:48, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
David Feintuch

David Feintuch (July 21, 1944 – March 16, 2006) was a science fiction and fantasy author and attorney.

Life and career
Feintuch was the 1996 winner of the John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer in Science Fiction. He wrote one major science fiction series, the Seafort Saga, and a fantasy series, Rodrigo of Caledon. Feintuch's literary works have been recognized and highlighted at Michigan State University in their Michigan Writers Series.

The Seafort Saga is a military space opera series revolving around the character Nicholas Seafort, an officer in the UNNS. The books are set in a future human society that is largely dominated by unified Christianity. The main protagonist is a naval officer who strives always to do his duty, both to the navy and to his God, at great personal cost. The series and main character are inspired by C. S. Forester's novels about Horatio Hornblower. Shortly before his death, the author announced on his website that an eighth book, Galahad's Hope, had been completed and was in the publication stage; its current status is unknown. Books in the Seafort Saga have been translated into Russian, German, Japanese, Spanish and Czech (published by Talpress).

Seafort Saga

 * 1) Midshipman's Hope (1994)
 * 2) Challenger's Hope (1995)
 * 3) Prisoner's Hope (1995)
 * 4) Fisherman's Hope (1996)
 * 5) Voices of Hope (1996)
 * 6) Patriarch's Hope (1999)
 * 7) Children of Hope (2001)

Rodrigo of Caledon

 * 1) The Still (1997) ISBN 0-446-67285-8 (Time Warner trade paperback) ISBN 0-446-60551-4 (1998 Aspect paperback) ISBN 1-85723-597-5 (Orbit paperback)
 * 2) The King (2002) ISBN 0-441-00902-6 (Ace hardcover) ISBN 0-441-01037-7 (2003 Ace paperback)

title: David Feintuch


text:
Calomarde

Calomarde can refer to:

 * Francisco Tadeo Calomarde y Arría (1775), Spanish statesman.
 * Calomarde, Aragon, a municipality in Spain

title: Calomarde


text:
Talk:Looking Glass River

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Looking Glass River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/66gupqQDM?url=http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/ to http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:55, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Looking Glass River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101125080127/http://lookingglassriverfriends.org/watershedfacts.html to http://www.lookingglassriverfriends.org/watershedfacts.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 01:32, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Looking Glass River


text:
Talk:Huron River

Proposed article split

 * Support. This article discusses several unrelated rivers which happen to have the same (or similar) names. This is exactly why we have disambiguation. Cmadler 11:32, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Support. I think this is almost already done, if you search for Huron River, you get a disambig, but this page is not done well and the formatting is different than any other page I've ever seen on Wiki.  Dachande 02:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and completed the split into Huron River (northern Michigan) and Little Huron River, and added some content. I don't anticipate any controversy for the reasons above.  All three still need more content, some cleanup, and maybe some citations, but they're all better IMO.  I'm also considering whether to rename the current article, either to add a "(southeast Michigan)" qualifier, or to make it the main article and rename the current disambiguation page to "Huron River {disambig)".  I'll hold off though to keep everything traceable for now.  I'm also not sure if either is a good enough idea to be worth doing.  Opinions?  Esobocinski (talk) 21:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Map
I think this article would benefit greatly from a map of the watershed. Here's one that could be used as a starting point toward creating a free version. (Sorry, I have no knowledge of how to do this, so I'm just making the suggestion.) Thanks, cmadler (talk) 17:24, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Missing word in text
In the article text there is a passage which says "...maintain water levels in existing, a use that is now ..." There is a word missing there, but I don't know what it is in order to correct it. Dwight Burdette 18:10, 15 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deedeebee (talk • contribs)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Huron River (Michigan). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/66gupqQDM?url=http%3A%2F%2Fviewer.nationalmap.gov%2Fviewer%2F to http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 21:20, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Huron River (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:03, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Huron River


text:
Talk:Little Indian River (Michigan)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Little Indian River (Michigan). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/66gupqQDM?url=http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/ to http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:23, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Little Indian River (Michigan)


text: User talk:83.100.209.108

title: User talk:83.100.209.108


text:
Talk:Leland River

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Leland River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/66gupqQDM?url=http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/ to http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:07, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Leland River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20030512072156/http://info.detnews.com/greatlakesescapes/directories.cfm?host=grandrapids&id=43&topic=destinationdetails to http://info.detnews.com/greatlakesescapes/directories.cfm?host=grandrapids&id=43&topic=destinationdetails

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 12:16, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Leland River


text:
Wildwood, Georgia

Wildwood is an unincorporated community and census-designated place (CDP) located in the northeastern corner of Dade County, Georgia, United States. The 2020 census listed a population of 382.

Description
The community is close to the Tennessee state line and the Chattanooga city limits, and is considered part of the Chattanooga metropolitan area. It sits in the diagonal valley between Sand Mountain and Lookout Mountain, which runs through all of Dade County and is home to most of its population. According to the 2000 Census, the 30757 Zip Code Tabulation Area had a population of 1,923---accounting for approximately 12% of Dade County's population of 16,040. The noted Southern humorist George Washington Harris (1814–1869) is buried in the Brock Cemetery in Wildwood, GA. Although he was considered one of the seminal writers of Southern humor and greatly influenced the literary works of Mark Twain, William Faulkner, and Flannery O'Connor, his grave was not officially identified and marked with a monument until 2008. Across the street from Brock Cemetery in Wildwood is Belvedere Plantation c. 1835, the oldest of the few remaining antebellum homes in the metro-Chattanooga area.

The northern terminus of Interstate 59 with Interstate 24 is found in the community. Via I-24, downtown Chattanooga is 11 mi northeast, and Nashville, Tennessee is 127 mi northwest. Via I-59, Birmingham, Alabama is 138 mi southwest.

Demographics
Wildwood was first listed as a census designated place in the 2020 census.

title: Wildwood, Georgia


text:
Template:User pd

{{documentation|content= This template is a self-reference and so is part of the Wikipedia project rather than the encyclopaedic content.

title: Template:User pd


text:
Template talk:User pd

I was under the impression that we already had templates for multi-licensing by users? Rob Church Talk 16:56, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

 * There's a template for multilicencing under the public domain, which is silly - since once in the public domain you relinquish your rights over it. That template is also a big space-hog which doesn't fit in the babel.  Much like the language babels and browser babels, this cleans up what would otherwise be a mess of giant templates on some user's pages.  Janizary 17:47, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

title: Template talk:User pd


text: File:Howtostealamillion.jpg

title: File:Howtostealamillion.jpg


text: Talk:Little Rabbit River

title: Talk:Little Rabbit River


text:
Stød

Stød (, also occasionally spelled stod in English) is a suprasegmental unit of Danish phonology (represented in non-standard IPA as ⟨◌ˀ⟩), which in its most common form is a kind of creaky voice (laryngealization), but it may also be realized as a glottal stop, especially in emphatic pronunciation. Some dialects of Southern Danish realize stød in a way that is more similar to the tonal word accents of Norwegian and Swedish. In much of Zealand it is regularly realized as reminiscent of a glottal stop. A probably unrelated glottal stop, with quite different distribution rules, occurs in Western Jutland and is known as the vestjysk stød ('West Jutland stød'). The word stød itself does not have a stød.

Phonetics
The stød has sometimes been described as a glottal stop, but acoustic analyses have shown that there is seldom a full stop of the airflow involved in its production. Rather it is a form of laryngealization or creaky voice, that affects the phonation of a syllable by dividing it into two phases. The first phase has a relatively high intensity and a high pitch (measured as F0), whereas the second phase sees a drop in intensity and pitch.

Phonology
Danish linguists such as Eli Fischer-Jørgensen, Nina Grønnum and Hans Basbøll have generally considered stød to be a suprasegmental phenomenon related to phonation and accent. Basbøll defines it as a "laryngeal syllable rhyme prosody".

The phonology of the stød has been widely studied, and several different analyses have been elaborated to account for it. Most of the time the presence of stød in a word is predictable based on information about the syllable structure of the word. But there are minimal pairs where the presence or absence of stød determines meaning:

Stød-basis and alternations
Two-syllable words with accent on the first syllable do not take stød, nor do closed monosyllables ending in a non-sonorant. In Standard Danish, stød is mainly found in words that have certain phonological patterns, namely those that have a heavy stressed syllable, with a coda of a sonorant or semivowel (i.e. words ending in vowel + ) or one of the consonant phonemes. This phonological structure is called "stød-basis" (or "stødbasis" in the literature). In the stød-basis model, stød is possible only on syllables that have this basis, but secondary rules need to be formulated to account for which syllables with stød-basis actually carry the stød.

Some words alternate morphologically with stød-carrying and stød-less forms, for example gul 'yellow (singular)' and gule  'yellow (plural)'. Grønnum considers stød to be non-phonemic in monosyllables with long vowels (she analyzes the phonemic structure of the word lim 'glue' as ), whereas Basbøll considers it phonemic also in this environment (analyzing it instead as, contrasting with the structure of team  'team').

Tonal analysis
Following an earlier suggestion by Ito and Mester, analyzes stød as a surface manifestation of an underlying high–low tone pattern across two syllables. Riad traces the history of stød to a tonal system similar to that found in the contemporary Swedish dialects of Mälardalen, particularly that of Eskilstuna. The argument is based both on the phonetic similarity between the stød, characterized by a sharp drop in the F0 formant, and the same phenomenon found in some tonal systems, and also on the historical fact that tonal accents are considered to have historically existed prior to the stød system. A 2013 study by Grønnum, Vazquez-Larruscaín and Basbøll, however, found that the tonal hypothesis was unable to successfully account for the distribution of stød. The tonal analysis has also been critiqued by, who prefers a model similar to Basbøll's.

Basbøll's analysis
gives an analysis of stød based on prosody and syllable weight measured in terms of morae. He analyzes Danish as having two kinds of syllables, monomoraic and bimoraic syllables. Unstressed syllables, syllables with short vowels, and non-sonorant codas are considered monomoraic, whereas stressed syllables with long vowels, or with short vowels followed by coda sonorants are considered bimoraic. In Basbøll's analysis, stød marks the beginning of the second mora in ultimate and antepenultimate syllables, although he recognizes that phonetically the situation is more complex as phonetic experiments have shown that the effects of stød occur across the entire syllable. Stød thus can only be found in "heavy" bimoraic rhyme syllables, but never in "light" (monomoraic) syllables. In this analysis, the notion of stød-basis is unnecessary, and the only thing that needs to be accounted for are those cases where syllables that ought to carry stød according to the model, in fact do not, e.g. words like øl, 'beer', and ven, 'friend'. Basbøll accounts for these by positing that the final sonorants in these cases are extraprosodic, meaning that they are simply not counting towards the moraic weight of the syllable to which they belong. This accounts for the resurfacing of stød when such words are followed by a syllabic consonant such as the definite suffix (e.g. vennen, 'the friend' ), but not when they are followed by a syllable with a vowel (e.g. venner , 'friends'). Another set of exceptions are assumed to be lexically coded as lacking stød.

History
Danish must have had stød already in the 16th century as a speech against the Danes by a Swedish bishop, Hemming Gadh, quoted by Johannes Magnus, mentions a particular guttural cough associated with Danish. Generally it has been considered that it must have arisen sometime in the late Middle Ages, perhaps around 1300. But some scholars have suggested that it goes back to the original population groups and that the line between stød and non-stød dialects represent an ancient invasion from the south.

Stød was first mentioned in the 1743 second treatise on orthography of Jens Pedersen Høysgaard, where he described it as stop of the breath caused by the closing of the pharynx. He was also the one to propose the term stødetone, "thrust-tone", later abbreviated to stød.

The historical origin of stød is a matter of debate, but it is systematically related to the word accents of Swedish and Norwegian: It has been proposed that original Old Norse monosyllables (not counting the definite article, which was still a separate word) received the stød, while words of two or more syllables did not. This would explain why hund ('dog'), hunden  ('the dog') and finger  ('finger'; Old Norse fingr in one syllable) have the stød in modern Danish, while hunde  ('dogs'), hundene  ('the dogs') and fingre  ('fingers') do not.

It has also been proposed that it originated as a phonetic consequence of the original devoicing of Old Norse syllable-final voiced consonants in some dialect areas. This phonetic laryngealization was then phonemicized as the Scandinavian languages restructured nominal morphology introducing the definite suffixes.

Dialectal variation

Standard Danish follows the rule for stød laid out above, but there is dialectal variation. There are four main regional variants for the realization of stød:

 * In Southern Jutlandic, Southernmost Funen, Southern Langeland, and Ærø, there is no stød but a pitch accent.
 * South of a line (Stødgrænsen, 'Stød-border') that goes through central South Jutland and crosses Southern Funen and central Langeland and north of Lolland-Falster, Møn, Southern Zealand, and Bornholm, there is neither stød nor pitch accent.
 * In most of Jutland and on Zealand, there is stød.
 * In Zealandic traditional dialects and regional language there are often more stød occurrences than in the standard language. In Zealand, the stød line divides Southern Zealand (without stød), an area that used to be directly under the Crown, from the rest of Zealand, which used to be the property of various noble estates.

In the dialects with pitch accent, such as the South Jutlandic (Synnejysk) of Als, a low-level tone and a high-level tone correspond to stød and non-stød in Standard Danish:

On Zealand, some traditional dialects have a phenomenon called short vowel stød (kortvokalstød); some monosyllabic words with a short vowel and a coda consonant cluster take a stød if they are followed by the definite suffix: præst 'priest', but præsten  'the priest'.

Western Jutlandic stød
In Western Jutland, a second stød, more like a preconsonantal glottal stop, is employed in addition to the Standard Danish stød.

The Western Jutlandic stød is called Vestjysk stød or "V-stød" in literature. It occurs in different environments, particularly after stressed vowels before final consonant clusters that arise by the elision of final unstressed vowels. For example, the word trække 'to pull', which is in Standard Danish, in Western Jutlandic is, and the present tense form trækker, in Standard Danish , in Western Jutlandic is. Some scholars have proposed that the Vestjysk stød is ancient, but others consider it to be a more recent innovation.

Similar phenomena in other languages
A similar phenomenon, known as "broken tone" (lauztā intonācija, lauztuo intonaceja) exists in several other languages spoken around the Baltic Sea: the Baltic languages Latvian, Latgalian, and the Samogitian dialect of Lithuanian, as well as the Finnic language Livonian.

title: Stød


text: User talk:194.75.128.200

title: User talk:194.75.128.200


text:
Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia's oldest articles

UuU listed for deletion at RfD on October 1, 2005

 * This is the nomination

 * UuU → Roentgenium -- This one is a bit controversial as its history apparantly contains the oldest edit on wikipedia, however I don't think it should be left to clutter up the main namespace. I'd be fine with it being moved off to some subpage of a wikipedia-namespace article on the history of wikipedia though. --fvw *  21:33, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * to stop this deletion, please go to Redirects_for_deletion. 132.205.45.148 16:58, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

ScottMoonen listed for deletion at RfD on October 2, 2005

 * This is the nomination

 * ScottMoonen → User:ScottMoonen -- Like the above, there used to be a very old article at this place (which I moved to the appropriate user subpage) and people are claiming it should be kept because of external links. It's a speedy deletion candidate, but what the hell, let's chatter about it. I'd posit that historycruft belongs in the Wikipedia and User namespaces. --fvw *  04:58, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * to stop this deletion, please go to Redirects_for_deletion. 132.205.45.148 17:05, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The page has now been history merged with the userpage, and the remaining redirect speedy deleted as a redirect to a userpage. (So the old edits remain and are now in the history of User:ScottMoonen – Gurch 15:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

User comments
Perhaps the comments by Pcb21 and others should be incorporated as copy; into what is now, I think, an article. - RoyBoy 800 17:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Anyone here got an idea of what the oldest vandalism/revert is? 219.74.22.10 07:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Blast it!
UuU's been deleted too! 68.39.174.238 16:12, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, the "oldest edit" is still preserved at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:UuU&oldid=291430. - dcljr (talk) 05:16, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

User: Eiffel
Notice that this user created the early UuU, and the first creator of TransporT links to this user page as well, could this be the first registered user, along with ScottMoonen? They appear to have made the only edits on Jan 16th, 2001. JeremyMcCracken 22:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It's difficult to tell, because history wasn't permanently kept until the software was changed in 2002, before then only the last few revisions would be stored. Several other edits were made on that day, and I imagine Wikipedia's first day too, but those are the only ones that still survive. I'd imagine Jimbo himself was the first registered user, anyway. BillyH 08:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Merging
... Would delete Wikipedia's oldest edit. So, No. Jorcoga † 23:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Another old article
This one has remained a stub and is from the 25th February 2002. Does this count?

ircII

Simply south 13:10, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Oldest town article
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=AbbevilleFrance&diff=prev&oldid=233252 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simply south (talk • contribs) 17:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Oldid=1
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/?oldid=1, which is actually not the oldest despite its name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/?curid=6 (18:12, 18 January 2001 office.bomis.com), which is the smallest curid on enwp.

Bennylin (talk) 07:31, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I think you meant to link to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=1 and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?curid=6. I just broke the latter link so I could history merge the very first edit of "AmericanSamoa" with the article American Samoa. See this diff. That now makes it the article with the oldest unbroken history, beating the West Virginia article by five days. Thanks for your help in breaking that record, even though you probably didn't intend it. :-) Graham 87 16:07, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

 * It breaks the record by six days, actually. Graham 87 16:11, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Logs
I looked through the logs mentioned here. Pretty sure I won't have been the first person to try to figure them out, but here are some things they appear to show: Cheers! --FormerIP (talk) 20:23, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The first page on the log is titled "HomePage", and was created as a list of categories.
 * The second is titled "Wikipedia" and was created with the content: WikiPedia is a wide-open encyclopedia project. Who knows where it will go? We invite everyone to contribute.  Just pick a topic, write an article.  You can do so anonymously or give yourself credit.  If you see an error, you can instantly edit an article to fix it.
 * The oldest surviving edit appears to be the 33rd edit on the log, representing the creation of Wikipedia's 11th page. User:Eiffel who did this edit appears to be the first Wikipedian not based in the Bomis offices and this was his 8th edit.
 * The first discussion appears to have been about what code to use for a Wikilink.
 * The first thing we would now think of as a policy appears to be "BeBoldInUpdatingPages", presumably an ancestor of WP:BOLD.
 * The first mainspace page of on the log was called "PhilosophyAndLogic". It consisted of a list of 5 well-known philosophers and Ayn Rand. I'd say this constitutes Wikipedia's first breach of NPOV. No complaints appear to have been raised against the editor involved, though. The very next edit may have been to blank the page (but I'm not sure - it looks more likely to have been to insert spaces between the list items).
 * The second mainspace page was "UnitedStates", presumably an ancestor of United States, which was created as a partial list of States.
 * The first page to have proper article content was "Afghanistan".
 * The first userpage looks like it was created on 16th Jan 2001 and belonged to User:ScottMoonen.
 * The oldest article that is now a Featured Article is Australia.
 * Wow! Is there any cyber-archaeological evidence to support Jimbo's recollection here? Cheers! Woz2 (talk) 12:26, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Apparently not, unfortunately. Graham 87 12:30, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I guess we'll have to hope some sleuth finds an archive of the 10 January 2001 test wiki. Cheers! Woz2 (talk) 13:10, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Move to mainspace?
I found this very interesting and I'm wondering if this article should be moved into main space, and linked to from the present shorter version at History of Wikipedia. Thoughts? Woz2 (talk) 10:57, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

 * Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! I rewrote the page to make it more readable some time ago. However I think it's a bit too self-referencial to be moved wholesale into the main namespace, but parts of it could certainly be copied there. Graham 87 12:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Nupedia listserv
Great stuff. Another source might be the Wayback When Machine's captures of the Nupedia list serv. Example. Cheers! Woz2 (talk) 12:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

I am not sure what to do with this...
So, I found this page:. It seems to be the discussion that inspired the "for other meanings of this word, see (disambiguation name)". I'm not sure if this is of use, but I'll post it anyway. TVShowFan122 (talk) 09:29, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Cool! Graham 87 15:44, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Huh. Origin of the first hanote! Interesting history. -- œ ™ 05:40, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

The oldest edits

 * I have been told in Village pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 57 that User:Tim Starling's discovery is now at https://web.archive.org/web/20110614170356/http://noc.wikimedia.org/~tstarling/wikipedia-logs-2001-08-17.7z, and that proved to be so. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 13:51, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
 * This link (which points to a directory) is more official. Graham 87 03:27, 4 January 2018 (UTC)


text:
Experimental testing of time dilation

Time dilation as predicted by special relativity is often verified by means of particle lifetime experiments. According to special relativity, the rate of a clock C traveling between two synchronized laboratory clocks A and B, as seen by a laboratory observer, is slowed relative to the laboratory clock rates. Since any periodic process can be considered a clock, the lifetimes of unstable particles such as muons must also be affected, so that moving muons should have a longer lifetime than resting ones. A variety of experiments confirming this effect have been performed both in the atmosphere and in particle accelerators. Another type of time dilation experiments is the group of Ives–Stilwell experiments measuring the relativistic Doppler effect.

Theory
The emergence of the muons is caused by the collision of cosmic rays with the upper atmosphere, after which the muons reach Earth. The probability that muons can reach the Earth depends on their half-life, which itself is modified by the relativistic corrections of two quantities: a) the mean lifetime of muons and b) the length between the upper and lower atmosphere (at Earth's surface). This allows for a direct application of length contraction upon the atmosphere at rest in inertial frame S, and time dilation upon the muons at rest in S′.

Length of the atmosphere: The contraction formula is given by $$L=L_{0}/\gamma$$, where L0 is the proper length of the atmosphere and L its contracted length. As the atmosphere is at rest in S, we have γ=1 and its proper Length L0 is measured. As it is in motion in S′, we have γ>1 and its contracted length L′ is measured.
 * Time dilation and length contraction

Decay time of muons: The time dilation formula is $$T=\gamma \ T_{0}$$, where T0 is the proper time of a clock comoving with the muon, corresponding with the mean decay time of the muon in its proper frame. As the muon is at rest in S′, we have γ=1 and its proper time T′0 is measured. As it is moving in S, we have γ>1, therefore its proper time is shorter with respect to time T. (For comparison's sake, another muon at rest on Earth can be considered, called muon-S. Therefore, its decay time in S is shorter than that of muon-S′, while it is longer in S′.)

 * In S, muon-S′ has a longer decay time than muon-S. Therefore, muon-S' has sufficient time to pass the proper length of the atmosphere in order to reach Earth.
 * In S′, muon-S has a longer decay time than muon-S′. But this is no problem, since the atmosphere is contracted with respect to its proper length. Therefore, even the faster decay time of muon-S′ suffices in order to be passed by the moving atmosphere and to be reached by Earth.

The muon emerges at the origin (A) by collision of radiation with the upper atmosphere. The muon is at rest in S′, so its worldline is the ct′-axis. The upper atmosphere is at rest in S, so its worldline is the ct-axis. Upon the axes of x and x′, all events are present that are simultaneous with A in S and S′, respectively. The muon and Earth are meeting at D. As the Earth is at rest in S, its worldline (identical with the lower atmosphere) is drawn parallel to the ct-axis, until it intersects the axes of x′ and x.
 * Minkowski diagram

Time: The interval between two events present on the worldline of a single clock is called proper time, an important invariant of special relativity. As the origin of the muon at A and the encounter with Earth at D is on the muon's worldline, only a clock comoving with the muon and thus resting in S′ can indicate the proper time T′0=AD. Due to its invariance, also in S it is agreed that this clock is indicating exactly that time between the events, and because it is in motion here, T′0=AD is shorter than time T indicated by clocks resting in S. This can be seen at the longer intervals T=BD=AE parallel to the ct-axis.

Length: Event B, where the worldline of Earth intersects the x-axis, corresponds in S to the position of Earth simultaneous with the emergence of the muon. C, where the Earth's worldline intersects the x′-axis, corresponds in S′ to the position of Earth simultaneous with the emergence of the muon. Length L0=AB in S is longer than length L′=AC in S′.

Experiments

If no time dilation exists, then those muons should decay in the upper regions of the atmosphere, however, as a consequence of time dilation they are present in considerable amount also at much lower heights. The comparison of those amounts allows for the determination of the mean lifetime as well as the half-life of muons. $$N$$ is the number of muons measured in the upper atmosphere, $$M$$ at sea level, $$Z$$ is the travel time in the rest frame of the Earth by which the muons traverse the distance between those regions, and $$T_0$$ is the mean proper lifetime of the muons:

 * $$\begin{align}

M_{\mathrm{Newton}} & =N\exp\left[-Z/T_{0}\right]\\ M_{\mathrm{SR}} & =N\exp\left[-Z/\left(\gamma T_{0}\right)\right] \end{align}$$

Rossi–Hall experiment
In 1940 at Echo Lake (3240 m) and Denver in Colorado (1616 m), Bruno Rossi and D. B. Hall measured the relativistic decay of muons (which they thought were mesons). They measured muons in the atmosphere traveling above 0.99 c (c being the speed of light). Rossi and Hall confirmed the formulas for relativistic momentum and time dilation in a qualitative manner. Knowing the momentum and lifetime of moving muons enabled them to compute their mean proper lifetime too – they obtained ≈ 2.4 μs (modern experiments improved this result to ≈ 2.2 μs).

Frisch–Smith experiment
A much more precise experiment of this kind was conducted by David H. Frisch and Smith (1962) and documented by a film. They measured approximately 563 muons per hour in six runs on Mount Washington at 1917m above sea-level. By measuring their kinetic energy, mean muon velocities between 0.995 c and 0.9954 c were determined. Another measurement was taken in Cambridge, Massachusetts at sea-level. The time the muons need from 1917m to 0m should be about $6.4 us$. Assuming a mean lifetime of 2.2 μs, only 27 muons would reach this location if there were no time dilation. However, approximately 412 muons per hour arrived in Cambridge, resulting in a time dilation factor of $8.8$.

Frisch and Smith showed that this is in agreement with the predictions of special relativity: The time dilation factor for muons on Mount Washington traveling at 0.995 c to 0.9954 c is approximately 10.2. Their kinetic energy and thus their velocity was diminished until they reached Cambridge to 0.9881 c and 0.9897 c due to the interaction with the atmosphere, reducing the dilation factor to 6.8. So between the start (≈ 10.2) and the target (≈ 6.8) an average time dilation factor of $8.4$ was determined by them, in agreement with the measured result within the margin of errors (see the above formulas and the image for computing the decay curves).

Other experiments
Since then, many measurements of the mean lifetime of muons in the atmosphere and time dilation have been conducted in undergraduate experiments.

Time dilation and CPT symmetry
Much more precise measurements of particle decays have been made in particle accelerators using muons and different types of particles. Besides the confirmation of time dilation, also CPT symmetry was confirmed by comparing the lifetimes of positive and negative particles. This symmetry requires that the decay rates of particles and their antiparticles have to be the same. A violation of CPT invariance would also lead to violations of Lorentz invariance and thus special relativity.

Today, time dilation of particles is routinely confirmed in particle accelerators along with tests of relativistic energy and momentum, and its consideration is obligatory in the analysis of particle experiments at relativistic velocities.

Twin paradox and moving clocks
Bailey et al. (1977) measured the lifetime of positive and negative muons sent around a loop in the CERN Muon storage ring. This experiment confirmed both time dilation and the twin paradox, i.e. the hypothesis that clocks sent away and coming back to their initial position are slowed with respect to a resting clock. Other measurements of the twin paradox involve gravitational time dilation as well.

In the Hafele–Keating experiment, actual cesium-beam atomic clocks were flown around the world and the expected differences were found compared to a stationary clock.

Clock hypothesis - lack of effect of acceleration
The clock hypothesis states that the extent of acceleration does not influence the value of time dilation. In most of the former experiments mentioned above, the decaying particles were in an inertial frame, i.e. unaccelerated. However, in Bailey et al. (1977) the particles were subject to a transverse acceleration of up to ~1018 g. Since the result was the same, it was shown that acceleration has no impact on time dilation. In addition, Roos et al. (1980) measured the decay of Sigma baryons, which were subject to a longitudinal acceleration between 0.5 and 5.0 × 1015 g. Again, no deviation from ordinary time dilation was measured.

title: Experimental testing of time dilation


text:
Talk:Kalamazoo River

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Kalamazoo River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/66gupqQDM?url=http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/ to http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131202233736/http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/07/20/enbridge-to-spend-up-to-c500-million-more-on-northern-gateway-safety/ to http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2012/07/20/enbridge-to-spend-up-to-c500-million-more-on-northern-gateway-safety/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:44, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Kalamazoo River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110928160739/http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/07/27/michigan-oil-spill-840000-gallons-of-oil-leak-into-talmadge-creek/ to http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/07/27/michigan-oil-spill-840000-gallons-of-oil-leak-into-talmadge-creek/
 * Added tag to http://www.kzooriver.com/kalamazoo/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040404065346/http://www.deq.state.mi.us/erd1/k-zoo/index.jsp to http://www.deq.state.mi.us/erd1/k-zoo/index.jsp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040304032814/http://midwest.fws.gov/nrda/kalamazoo/ to http://midwest.fws.gov/nrda/kalamazoo/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 08:25, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Kalamazoo River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/article/20100730/OILSPILL/7300328/Leak+forces+evacuations+
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120320181215/http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mpsc/electric/capacity/cnf/othergen/mi_egrid_plantdata_version21.xls to http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/mpsc/electric/capacity/cnf/othergen/mi_egrid_plantdata_version21.xls

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 12:03, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kalamazoo River


text:
Talk:Jordan River (Michigan)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Jordan River (Michigan). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100611025806/http://www.friendsofthejordan.org/resource.htm to http://www.friendsofthejordan.org/resource.htm
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/66gupqQDM?url=http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/ to http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 04:05, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jordan River (Michigan)


text:
Saturday People

Saturday People is the second studio album by Canadian pop duo Prozzäk. This album was only released in Canada, on 7 November 2000. The album was nominated for "Best Pop Album" at the 2002 Juno Awards.

Track listing
The verse medley for "It's Not Me It's You" is taken from "The Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairies" in Tchaikovsky's The Nutcracker Suite.

CD-Extra section
 * 1) Video clip: "Live Footage" (Hot Show concert)
 * 2) Video clip: The Prozzäk Story
 * 3) Music video: "Strange Disease"
 * 4) Music video: "Sucks to Be You"

title: Saturday People


text: Talk:Indian River (Michigan)

title: Talk:Indian River (Michigan)


text:
User talk:InvictusNox

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Dominick 02:54, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:InvictusNox


text:
Talk:Liverpool St James railway station

Can we make sure that the "National Rail lines" boxes are only used for stations that exist at present, and not for stations which have closed? --RFBailey 17:00, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

The article seems to be well referenced, is it time to remove the request for additional citations for verification? Hagis uk (talk) 09:15, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Article split?
@Darrelljon has just suggested that the article be split so that the 21st century content goes into a new article Liverpool Baltic railway station. 10mmsocket (talk) 09:57, 23 May 2023 (UTC) Support - makes good sense to me. LicenceToCrenellate (talk) 17:13, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination. I think it's cleaner and neater to separate the two lives of the station as they are going to have different names. Where a station simply re-opens under the same name I can see that the article is kept - and there are a lot of them - see Category:Reopened railway stations in Great Britain. What I'm not sure if whether the is precedence for doing it where the name changes. 10mmsocket (talk) 09:58, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Strong support; I moved content from Dalcross railway station to Inverness Airport railway station a few months back, same should be done here (IMO, as soon as possible). A passing mention in the lead of this article is all that is required. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 15:18, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Taken the liberty of doing it because it feels blatantly obvious (even if I broke some rule somewhere...!) - not that anyone opposed it today though... Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 20:18, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

 * It's called WP:BRD. You are bold. If someone disagrees, they'll revert it and we discuss some more. That simple. 10mmsocket (talk) 21:00, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Liverpool St James railway station


text:
Cardinal Place

Cardinal Place is a retail and office development in London, near Victoria Station and opposite Westminster Cathedral. The site consists of three buildings covering over a million square feet on Victoria Street next door to Portland House, and was designed by EPR Architects and built by Sir Robert McAlpine.

The topping out ceremony was held in December 2004, and performed by Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, Lord McAlpine, and Ian J. Henderson, outgoing chief executive of the site's developers Land Securities.

The £200m development was built directly over the District & Circle line Underground tunnels which actually pass through the basement. The buildings rest on rubber shock absorbers to prevent vibrations from the passing trains. The project includes 550000 sqft of office space and 100000 sqft of retail.

Tenants include Experian.

title: Cardinal Place


text:
Talk:Little Huron River

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Little Huron River. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/66gupqQDM?url=http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/ to http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:22, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Little Huron River


text:
Kilcunda

Kilcunda is a seaside town located 117 km south east of Melbourne between Phillip Island and Wonthaggi near Dalyston via the South Gippsland Highway on the Bass Highway, in the Bass Coast Shire of Gippsland, Victoria, Australia. Known originally as a train station near Wonthaggi, it is now the location of a very popular swimming hole at the Bourne Creek Trestle Bridge and at the 2016 census, Kilcunda had a population of 578.

The name "Kilcunda" is believed to be from the Aboriginal term for 'an exclamation', and is reported by one authority to mean, 'Oh dear, the sticks!'

Trestle Bridge
The 91 m long Kilcunda Bridge was built over the Bourne Creek. It is protected by the National Trust. This trestle bridge was constructed for the Victorian Railways to carry coal from what was then known as the Powlett Coal Fields. It is a particularly significant monument because most of the steam-locomotive fuel that serviced the Victorian Railways network, from 1911 until 1978, crossed over this bridge. Since disused, the bridge is now a tourist attraction and a part of the Bass Coast Rail Trail. Bourne creek spills over Kilcunda Beach and out into the sea of Bass Strait. Seashell collecting is permitted on Kilcunda Beaches.

Bass Coast Rail Trail
Walking, cycling and horse trotting is the modern use of the old Wonthaggi railway line all year round. The Bass Coast Rail Trail is very flat and begins near Kilcunda at the roundabout to Phillip Island and ends at the Wonthaggi shopping district. You can also access it all along the way, including at Kilcunda. Victoria's only coastal rail trail, it stretches 16 kilometres from Anderson to Wonthaggi, meandering through farmland, coastal bushland, historic coal mining nature reserves and coastline with a clear view of the Wonthaggi wind turbines and remnants of coal mine buildings. The trail crosses over the Powlett River and the Bourne Creek trestle bridge at Kilcunda, which has panoramic views of the beach. Kangaroos can often be spotted as well as many bird species. An extension of the trail from Anderson to Woolamai, on Phillip Island, has not yet been made suitable for cyclists. Public toilets are situated at each town along the way. Public toilets in Anderson are situated at the bus interchange which handles connections between the San Remo and Inverloch/Wonthaggi public transport routes. The bus interchange is adjacent to the eastern side of the Anderson roundabout.

Kilcunda Lobster Festival
The Annual Kilcunda Lobster Festival began in 1984 and is held on Australia Day weekend.

Shore Fishing
Very popular surf fishing area, catching Salmon, Trout and Yellow-eyed Mullet.

Climate
Kilcunda's location on the north shore of Bass Strait gives it an oceanic climate, with the moderating effect of the ocean allowing a narrower temperature range throughout the year compared to other regions in Victoria. Average daily maximum temperatures range from 23.5 °C in the summer to 13.5 in winter. Frost is rare, occurring on average 6 mornings a year.

History
The Bunurong Aboriginal people were custodians of this stretch of coast for thousands of years prior to white settlement. The Boakoolawal clan lived in the Kilcunda area south of the Bass River. Middens containing charcoal and shellfish mark the location of their campsites along the coast.

Originally a coal mining township, The Western Port Coal Mining Company extracted black coal from 1871. The Post Office opened on 5 August 1879. Evidence of coal mining is scattered across Kilcunda, the most famous (pictured here) is the old Kilcunda Rail Bridge on the eastern side. Commissioned in 1910 and decommissioned in the 1970s, it now forms part of the Bass Coast Rail Trail. Mitchell's Black Coal Mine ruins are on Carew Road.

Education
There is a primary school in nearby San Remo, a primary school in nearby Dalyston and Wonthaggi has three primary schools and one secondary college. There is a private secondary college on nearby Phillip Island. Also Chisholm TAFE, Bass Coast Specialist School, Bass Coast Adult Education Centre, University of the Third Age (U3A) retirees education centre, and Connecting Skills Australia (CSA) specialist developmental school, support and employment services/training.

Plans are underway for a new tertiary education facility.

Facilities

 * Playground – Kilcunda Foreshore Reserve, Bass Highway
 * Community Centre – Bass Highway
 * Wonthaggi Market – every 2nd Sunday in the centre of Wonthaggi town
 * Historic mine whistle sounds 12 noon every day in the centre of town – mine shaft tower, Apex Park, Murray Street
 * Coast; The Arch, Black Head, Shelley Beach, Kilcunda Foreshore, Kilcunda Beach at trestle bridge and Bourne Creek, Cemetery Beach and Powlett River West.
 * Seashell Collecting is permitted on Kilcunda coast from San Remo, Victoria to Undertow Bay, past Safety Beach in Browns Bay Cape Paterson – Small sizes and small quantities of empty seashells, driftwood, dead fallen twigs's, sea glass and interesting rubbish
 * Bass Coast Rail Trail – Murray Street, walk/cycle or horse trot, part/all, views, toilets every town except Anderson
 * Victorian Desalination Plant – Aquasure, park, viewing platform, walking/horse riding/cycling tracks, booked tours, Lower Powlett Road in Dalyston
 * Wonthaggi Wind Farm – wind turbines, tourist attraction, Campbell Street in Wonthaggi (close the gate), next to the 1 km Baxters beach track
 * Wonthaggi Golf Course – 18 hole, par 72, ACR 70, easy walk, McKenzie Street
 * Wonthaggi railway station museum – open Saturday mornings, Murray Street
 * State Coal Mine – museum and tours, Garden Street, Wonthaggi
 * Coal mine ruins Carew Road and scattered around neighbouring towns

title: Kilcunda


text:
Talk:Grass River (Michigan)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Grass River (Michigan). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/66gupqQDM?url=http%3A%2F%2Fviewer.nationalmap.gov%2Fviewer%2F to http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:19, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Grass River (Michigan)


text:
Donald Akenson

Donald Harman Akenson (born May 22, 1941, Minneapolis, Minnesota) is an American historian and author. Notably prolific, he has written at least 24 book-length, scholarly monographs, 4 jointly-authored scholarly books, 6 works of fiction and historical fiction, and 55 scholarly articles. He is a fellow of both the Royal Society of Canada and the Royal Historical Society (UK). He is also a Molson Prize Laureate, awarded for a lifetime contribution to Canadian culture (other winners include Margaret Atwood, Marshall McLuhan, and Glenn Gould). He was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship in 1984, and in 1992 he won the prestigious Grawemeyer Award, then the richest non-fiction book prize in the world. Akenson received his B.A. from Yale University and his doctorate from Harvard University. He is Distinguished University Professor and Douglas Professor of History at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario, Canada, and was simultaneously Beamish Research Professor at the Institute of Irish Studies, University of Liverpool (2006–10), and senior editor of the McGill-Queen's University Press (1982-2012).

Irish history
Originally trained in economics and statistics at Yale, Akenson's mentor in the study of Irish history was John V. Kelleher, the founder of the Department of Celtic Languages and Literature at Harvard. All together, Akenson has written twenty-four books on the subject of Ireland. Akenson's early works in Irish history focused on the religious history of Ireland, particularly the often ignored history of the Church of Ireland, and on the history of Irish education, with an emphasis on how educational practices either tended to heal or to further engender sectarian strife. Brian Titley wrote of Akenson's efforts in the chronicling of Irish education that "until it attracted the attention of D.H. Akenson, the writing of Irish educational history was moribund, amateurish and narrow in both scope and sympathy."

Akenson then moved more exclusively to the study of the Irish diaspora, and now, having written well over a dozen books on Irish history and Irish migration, is considered "the most distinguished scholar of the history of the Irish diaspora." He became known to many Irish-American scholars in 1984 and 1985 when in his The Irish In Ontario (1984) and Being Had: Historians, Evidence, and the Irish in North America (1985) he controversially called for (1) historians of Irish immigration in North America to make use of the better-documented Canadian data on Irish immigration and (2) historians to recognize that the long practice of ignoring Irish Protestant migration, particularly in the nineteenth century, was at best a foolish mistake and at worst a case of scholarly bigotry. Having called into question many, if not all, of the most-dearly clung to assumptions of traditional scholars of Irish immigration in America, an all-out scholarly war ensued, and Akenson was persuaded to make his case once again in 1996 with The Irish Diaspora: A Primer. In this latter work, and indeed as in all of his books, Akenson pulls no punches.

Since the publication of Being Had in 1985, he has remained one of the most respected but controversial scholars of Irish migration. In 1990 the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council of Canada named The Irish in Ontario (1984) "one of the most important publications in social science in the past 50 years in Canada," and in 1994 he was named the winner of the Trillium Book Award for his biography of Irish writer and politician, Conor Cruise O'Brien, Conor: The Biography of Conor Cruise O'Brien (1994). Of his latest contribution to the history of Irish Migration, Ireland, Sweden and the Great European Migration, 1815–1914 (2013), fellow Irish Diaspora historian Donald MacRaild wrote: "This monumental study clearly will have a huge impact in the field. Typically of Akenson, an original thinker of the first order, it debunks many myths, half-truths, and lazy assumptions on the part of historians. However, this isn't simply a book which debunks. It isn't a tract or a treatise. Its central contribution is in offering one of the best (perhaps the very best) comparative history of European emigration."

Religious history
While mostly noted as a scholar of Irish migration, Akenson is also an award-winning scholar of religious history. His book God's Peoples: Covenant and Land in South Africa, Israel, and Ulster was named the winner of the 1992 Grawemeyer Award for "ideas improving world order". At the time, the Grawemeyer Award was the richest non-fiction book prize in the world. Other notable winners include Mikhail Gorbachev and Aaron T. Beck (considered the father of cognitive therapy). Library Journal named God's Peoples one of the best 30 books published in the US in all genres in 1992. His other works on religious history have also been highly praised. Some Family: The Mormons and How Humanity Keeps Track of Itself (2007) was a finalist for the British Columbia Achievement Prize for Best Canadian Non-fiction Book; Saint Saul: A Skeleton Key to the Historical Jesus (2000) was short-listed for the Canadian Writers' Trust Prize; and Surpassing Wonder: The Invention of the Bible and the Talmuds (1998) was shortlisted for the Governor General's Awards for Non-fiction. A senior editor at McGill-Queen's University Press for thirty years, Akenson remains the editor of McGill-Queen's Studies in the History of Religion, series two, which includes more than seventy books by eminent scholars such as Jacob Neusner.

Editor
In addition to teaching and research, Akenson was senior editor of McGill-Queen's University Press from 1982 to 2012. He was editor or founding editor of two long-running series of histories published by McGill-Queen's University Press: (1) the McGill-Queen's Studies in the History of Religion, series two (dedicated to the memory of George A. Rawlyk); (2) McGill-Queen's Studies in Ethnic History; and independently (3) Canadian Papers in Rural History. He remains the editor of the McGill-Queen's Studies in the History of Religion series.

Academic degrees

 * Ph.D. Harvard University, 1967
 * Ed. M. Harvard University, 1963
 * B.A. Yale College, 1962

Academic degrees (honorary):

 * D. Litt (hon. causa) Victoria University, Wellington, New Zealand, 2010
 * D. Litt (hon. causa) The Queen's University of Belfast, 2008
 * D. Laws (hon causa) University of Regina, 2002
 * D. Litt (hon. causa) University of Guelph, 2000
 * D. Hum (hon. causa) Lethbridge University, 1996
 * D. Litt (hon. causa) McMaster University, 1995

title: Donald Akenson


text:
Talk:Grand River (Michigan)

Where is this River?
The problem I have with the lead is that Michigan is a big state, and knowing a river is long doesn't tell me where it is on say, a road map. A river can be wide, long, high (in elevation), low, big (waterflow), north-south or east-west; it can flow into or out of Lake Michigan; it can be well, anywhere. Reading the lead we know virtually nothing. I don't know where any of the towns therough which it flows, because I live on the west coast. But I know where Lake Michigan is. A tributary of the lake means it flows into, not out of the lake. We need to take a larger view. Sbalfour (talk) 01:08, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

I've done a little more research. The Grand is one of three principal tributaries of Lake Michigan. There are dozens to hundreds of tributaries counting streams and creeks, but they're tiny. The three significant ones mentioned everywhere are Fox-Wolf of Green Bay, Kalamazoo and Grand River. If the Fox and Wolf are considered separate, and they may well be, then the Grand River is the largest tributary of Lake Michigan by both discharge and drainage basin size. The Fox-Wolf doesn't flow directly into the Lake, but into Green Bay, and the bay's water exchange with Lake Michigan is complicated, for purposes of pesticide measurement, erosion, sedimentation, etc. Sbalfour (talk) 15:38, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Description section is a mishmash
Most of the section describes a promotional event, rather than the river. There is no clear description of the river's course, including headwaters, mouth location, which way it flows (N, S, E, W?), where in the state it is located with respect to major landmarks (landmarks are NOT cities). The whole article needs cleaned up and reorged. Sbalfour (talk) 01:53, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The "Course" section literally describes its headwaters and the counties through which it flows. Why are you so interested in this page? --Criticalthinker (talk) 06:02, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I separated the Course section from the Description section, so now it's clear. I'm an Ohio/Indiana geographer and historian, and Michigan is within my purview. Sbalfour (talk) 15:30, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Grand River (Michigan)


text: User:Stone put to sky

title: User:Stone put to sky


text:
Talk:Format wars

Ignore. I did not know another similar page already existed.

title: Talk:Format wars


text:
Talk:Flat River (Michigan)

misc fixes, bridges
I have pics, and will be doing articles for, both the covered bridges on the flat. So I've put the links back in. articles forthcoming shortly... Also I found the mouth and headwaters coords via terraserver. probably good thing for an infobox river but for now I just put them in ++Lar: t/c 21:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Whites Bridge is done, have to do Fallasburg Bridge ++Lar: t/c 03:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Flat River (Michigan)


text: Category:Lost submarines by country

title: Category:Lost submarines by country


text:
Open D tuning

Open D tuning is an open tuning for the acoustic or electric guitar. The open string notes in this tuning are (from lowest to highest): D A D F♯ A D. It uses the three notes that form the triad of a D major chord: D (the root note), F♯ (the major third) and A (the perfect fifth).

To tune a guitar from standard tuning to open D tuning, lower the 1st (high-E) string down a full step to D, 2nd (B) string down a full step to A, 3rd (G) string down a half step to F♯, and 6th (low-E) string down a full step to D.

In this tuning, when the guitar is strummed without fretting any of the strings, a D major chord is sounded. This means that any major chord can be easily created using one finger, fretting all the strings at once (also known as barring); for example, fretting all the strings at the second fret will produce an E major chord, at the third fret an F major chord, and so on up the neck.

Open D tuning is very popular with slide guitar (or 'bottleneck') players, as it allows them to play complete chords using the slide. This tuning is also used in regular (non-slide) guitar playing. The full and vibrant sound it produces - particularly on an acoustic guitar - also makes it ideal for fingerstyle playing.

Many new chord shapes and sounds are available with open D tuning. It can offer a strong compositional element that produces tonal qualities markedly different from standard tuning. The full range of major and minor chords, with all their extensions, are available to the player. Many well-known guitarists have used this tuning at some point in their career. Neil Young, Richie Havens, Joni Mitchell, Bruce Cockburn, Barry Gibb, Jim O'Rourke and Jason Swain have all released recordings featuring this tuning. Elmore James used this tuning heavily. Stone Gossard from Pearl Jam uses this tuning when playing the rhythm guitar on "Even Flow" and "Oceans", from their Ten album. Broadbay use this tuning in all their songs. Mumford & Sons also use this tuning on their tracks "The Cave", "Awake My Soul" and "Roll Away Your Stone" from their album Sigh No More. Needtobreathe used it on some of their songs, most notably "Something Beautiful" from The Outsiders. Laura Marling uses the tuning on the title track of her 2010 album, I Speak Because I Can. Kevin Shields of My Bloody Valentine uses this tuning and its variations on many songs. Also, Alessio Frusta uses this tuning on the track "Freedom Island" from his 2015 album Pen Siero. Additionally, Switchfoot uses this tuning on the track "Daisy" from its 2005 album Nothing Is Sound, albeit lowered a half step (giving an open D♭ tuning with the same intervalic relationships as open D). Mitski uses this tuning for almost all the songs, while guitarists performing with her live often use standard tuning.

F♯-A-D-F♯-A-D, Open D tuning with low F♯
Used by some Brazilian sertanejo musicians on the acoustic guitar to approximate the sound of the viola caipira, a Brazilian country guitar with ten paired strings, traditionally tuned either A-D-F#-A-D or B-E-G#-B-E.

D-A-D-F♯-A-C♯, Open Dmaj7 tuning
This variant is achieved by lowering the high D string a half step to C♯ when tuned to open D. C♯ is the major seventh of the D major scale, hence the name. It also can be used for both fingerstyle and slide guitar work.

D-A-D-F-A-D, Open Dm tuning
This variant uses an F natural, the minor third.

This tuning has been used by Niko Wenner of Oxbow on the songs "Angel," "Cat and Mouse"; by Ian Thornley of Big Wreck on "Ladylike" and "Overemphasizing" and by Owen Campbell on "Sunshine Road".

DADFAD tuning is ideal for guitarists who are accompanying instruments that are tuned to minor scales, such as the Native American flute.

D-A-D-F-A-E, Open Dmadd9 tuning
This tuning was used by the progressive metal band Opeth on their album Ghost Reveries.

D-A-D-A-D-D, Open D5 tuning
This variant is used most notably by Mark Tremonti of Alter Bridge and Creed. Eight of the songs in which it is used are "Are You Ready?", "Faceless Man", "My Sacrifice", "Weathered", "Open Your Eyes", "Ghost of Days Gone By" (half-step down), "Life Must Go On", and “Fortress” (half-step down). It is also used on "Rain", "Brains", and "New Way Out", all tuned down 1 and a half steps (BF♯BF♯BB). Mark has mentioned in his instructional DVD that this tuning is one of his favorites because of its simplicity. It is also used by the Goo Goo Dolls in their song "Black Balloon", which was tuned down a half step on the album but played live in Open D5. "Without You", "Emotion Sickness" and "Paint Pastel Princess" by Australian band Silverchair also uses the Open D5 tuning, but down half a step. Fair to Midland use this tuning tuned down 1 full step (CGCGCC) and 1 1/2 steps (BF♯BF♯BB).

D-A-D-D-A-D
A variation on the above Open D5 tuning, is occasionally used by folk guitarists, such as Stephen Stills on the song "4+20". It has the advantage of a ringing pair of identical Ds on the third and fourth strings, which can be used to carry a melody line above a bed of D5 created by the other strings.

D-A-D-A-A-D
This tuning has been used by:
 * Dave Wakeling of The Beat (known in North America as The English Beat) on the track "Save It For Later" from Special Beat Service as well as "Click Click" from the band's debut.
 * Alex Lifeson of Canadian rock band Rush on the track "Hope" from Snakes & Arrows as well as Stone Gossard of American Rock Band Pearl Jam on the track "Let the Records Play".
 * Allen Maslen, guitarist and multi-instrumentalist with the British folk-rock band Meet On The Ledge. Tracks with this tuning include Only Angels, Gas Street Shuffle, Freeze, The Litten Tree and One For His Nob.
 * Ben Howard for the EP Old Pine.
 * American rock band Rival Sons use this tuning on their 2019 song "Look Away".
 * Owl City in his project Sky Sailing.
 * Philip Toshio Sudo, who wrote the book "Zen Guitar".

D-D-D-A-D-F♯
Nicknamed the "Wind of Change," this tuning was used by Peter Frampton on his song of the same name. Frampton discovered this tuning while browsing guitars at the home of George Harrison, who had a large collection of guitars in various tunings. When speaking of the tuning in an interview, Frampton said, "The low E and A strings drop down to D, the fourth string remains unchanged, the third string goes up to A, the second string up to D, and the first string up to F♯, so there's a D triad on top and three Ds on the bottom. It's a very strange tuning, but oh my God, it sounds huge."

title: Open D tuning


text:
User talk:BenBurch

I'm Baaack
--BenBurch (talk)
 * Yabba yabba, we accept you, we accept you: one of us! -- Orange Mike |  Talk  01:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Thanks so much! Remembering the editing argot isn't easy after this much time!  --BenBurch (talk)

Hippo, birdie, two ewes!
Sorry I missed the actual date. -- Orange Mike |  Talk  00:41, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Thank you, my friend! --BenBurch (talk) 09:36, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Death of Carol Leigh
Do you have a reliable source as we define it here? Orange Mike |  Talk  16:14, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Working on that. --BenBurch (talk) 17:01, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

title: User talk:BenBurch


text:
Talk:Opus Dei and politics

I have written an introduction summarizing the content of this page and I have renewed the link in the main page -as it was wrong and did not send anywhere. --Uncertain 17:06, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Franco
I reverted Lafem's reversion because it was not explained enough. He, as anyone else in Wikipedia, should discuss his insights before he changes anything in a topic as controversial as this one. Most of history schoolbooks in Spain, both in the highschool and in the university, explain the strong relationships Opus Dei had with the Franco's dictatorship. This is not fair to dismiss it saying it is "new research". Maybe OD does not want to have such an involvement with any government now. But this is part of its history which cannot deny. Which cannot hide. --Uncertain 20:15, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Thank you, Uncertain, and welcome to Wikipedia! I am happy that you explain your intervention. I am sorry I felt I had to revert your contribution because it is a policy in Wikipedia that contributions without attributions, i.e. seemingly original research cannot be allowed in the encyclopedia: No Original Research Many other Wikipedians are on the lookout for such contributions as has been shown in other articles and in the Opus Dei article where non-attributed interventions were routinely removed until the contributor gives references.

 * I am not going to revert your contribution but I will await a few days, let's say 3 days, to wait for references, books or titles that you are using for your contribution.

 * I would also like to disagree that many history books connect Opus Dei with Franco. John Allen who wrote the latest book on Opus Dei confirms the political freedom of Opus Dei members and what Opus Dei spokespersons have been saying: "Opus Dei is filed under F for Franco," concedes Jack Valero, the organisation's spokesman in Britain."Some members worked in Franco's Spain, became ministers of his. But Opus Dei people are free to do whatever they wish politically. Other members were against Franco." He cites the dissident Rafael Calvo Serer, who was driven into exile in the early 70s and saw the newspaper he published closed by the government. Allen confirms that by the latter stages of the Franco era, Opus Dei in Spain was divided "50/50" over the regime.  There are also a number of books which confirm this. Books by Crozier, Preston and of course, Berglar, a member. The first two are not.

 * So your contribution could be said to be not NPOV (neutral point of view) and even not accurate, non-verifiable: "However, Opus Dei was not only linked but also tightly interwoven with the power structures of the Francoist dictatorship soon after the Spanish Civil War, although its stronger involvement in the government came in the late 1950s. Spanish history textbooks agree that the Opus Dei had a strong influence in the regime."

 * I will gladly collaborate with you in a scholarly way on this one, and based on the policies of this encyclopedia. While I await your references, I have placed a tag on neutrality and factual accuracy. A ver si podemos colaborar bien. Muchas gracias. Un saludo. Lafem 03:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Dear Lafem, I find that you has arrogated yourself an authority you have not: to impose deadlines. You claim my editing is NPOV and "original research". I can claim that your intervention is vandalism. Intellectual vandalism, if you prefer.
 * I will give you my answer in less than three days, although I am not in my ow university and it is very difficult to me to take some time to make bibliographical investigation--that at home would be very easy. So, please, Lafem, do not press me. You are not the landlord of this page.

 * Let me explain my will and my concern with this article: as I will explain later, when I have time, I want to separate allegations and implicit accusations in the actual article of the Opus Dei being related with today's political involvement. I think this article should focus on historical well proven facts. It is proven enoguh that Opus Dei HAD strong links with the Franco's dictadorship. The point is to separate individual involvement of some member or from organizational or ideological involvement of the Opus itself, if it is posible.
 * My will, when I started editing the article with good faith and little of Wikiskills, was to highlight that even if it is proven that Opus Dei, as an organisation, had some links with Francoism in the past, it does not mean that it is now involved with neo-fascism, conservatism or any other -ism. Or that indivisual involvement of members does not mean that this is the policy of the organization--althought this involvement have implied direct advantages to the organization, perhaps unwanted. Those are different issues.
 * Conversely, if it is proven beyond any doubt that Opus Dei has no current political involvements or that it tried to avoid them in the past, it does not mean that it did not had.
 * This is what I feel it lacks in the article, that is much to biased to accusation of surrent involvement and veiled denyings of past facts.

 * I would like to put all these concerns in the main discussion, because this one is hidden--to the deep sinful happiness of Opus Dei hard line supporters. Majorities cannot deny truth.

 * Finally, I will plea for interventions in the main discussions about the current state of the Opus Dei article's section "Freedom and pluralism vs. far-right politics": I think this is the most neglected part of the article and it is, to me, extremely biased. However, I am not going to give you three days before I put the sign of "Accuracy dispute". See you around. --130.88.40.197 17:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Removed disputed sign
I removed the disputed sign. I think the solution to this problem is easy. I just moved Uncertain's contributions on Franco to the Franco section and kept his excellent introduction. And then I added what should be added to make this piece neutral: the other side. Please keep the following guideline in mind and hopefully there won't be any further problems: Wikiquette ;-) Rabadur 08:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I accept your edition, Rabadur, although it removes from the introduction the fact that prominent members of the Opus Dei were within higher ranks of the government before it began to change, in the late 50s. I'll try to explain it (adding the references, of course!) whithin the body of the article.
 * Moreover, it should be highlighted that, although the Opus Dei never explicitly opposed the dictatorship's ideology or crimes, its action in government helped to open Spanish politics of this time and to modernise the economy--and as a result it helpd to develop the country after fifteen years of stagnation. I'll add this later on. --Uncertain 10:05, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

A (necessarily short) bibliography--after Lafem's suggestion
Some of the books that cite Opus Dei's involvement in Franco's politics. Most of them portray OD as a secretive organization deeply involved in francoism from its very beggining--One of the so-called "families" of the Regime's "Movement". On the positive side, most of them portray OD ministers after 1956 as some of the builders of economic development. Most of those books have been written for prominent international scholars [Preston, Payne, carr, etc.] or have been published by well-known international presses or universitites [Longman, Prentice-Hall, HarperCollins, etc.]. I have found both old and new prints. I have just added one from an Spanish printing house, one of the largest and more reputable [Planeta]. I hope this will be usefull for all the students of Spain, Francoism, Fascism, and Opus Dei. --Uncertain 18:53, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Arango, E. Ramón. 1995 (1985). Spain. Democracy Regained (Second Edition). Boulder, CO: Westview.

 * Carr, Raymond, and Juan Pablo Fusi. 1991 (1979). Spain: Dictatorship to democracy. London: Routledge.

 * De Blaye, Edouard. 1976 (1974). Franco and the Politics of Spain. Middlessex: Penguin. [original title Franco ou la monarchie sans roi, Editions Stock]

 * Ellwood, Sheelagh. 1994. Franco. Harlow, UK: Longman.

 * Garriga, Ramón. 1977. El Cardenal Segura y el Nacional-Catolicismo. Barcelona: Planeta.

 * Graham, Robert. 1984. Spain. Change of a Nation. London: Michael Joseph.

 * Gunther. Richard. 1980. Public Policy in a No-Party State. Spanish Planning and Budgeting in the Twilight of the Franquist Era. Berkeley: University of California.

 * Herr, Richard. 1971. Spain. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall.

 * Hills, George. 1970. Spain. London:

 * Payne, Stanley G. 1999. Fascism in Spain. 1923-1977. Madison, WI: Wisconsin University.

 * Preston, Paul. 1990. The Politics of Revenge. Fascism and the Military in Twentieth-Century Spain. London. Unwin Hyman.

 * Preston, Paul. 1993. Franco. A Biography. London: HarperCollins. --Uncertain 18:53, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Some evidence...
...on the idea that Historians of Spanish twentieth century agree that Opus Dei was part of thre regime, although a minority within it.

 * In his history of Francoism, Franco, Preston writes very balancedly (1993:669):

 * "The arrival of the technocrats has been interpreted variously as a planned take-over by Opus Dei and a clever move by Franco to 'fill vacant seats in the latest round of musical chairs' [he quotes Ynfante's Santa mafia]. In fact, the arrival of the technocrats was neither sinister nor cunning but rather a piecemeal and pragmatic response to a specific set of problems. By the beggining of 1957, the regime faced political and economic bankrupcy. Franco and Carrero Blanco were looking for new blood and fresh ideas. To be acceptable, new men had to come from within the Movimiento, be catholic, accepted the idea of an eventual return to the monarchy and be, in Francoist terms, apolitical. López Rodó, Navarro Rubio and Ullastres [members of OD] were ideal. López Rodó was the nominee of Carrero Blanco. [He quotes López Rodó's Memories]. The dynamic Navarro Rubio was the Caudillo's choice. Franco had known him since 1949. He was a Procurador en Cortes for the Sindicatos and had been highly recommended by the outgoing Minister of Agriculture, Rafael Cavestany. Preston quotes Navarro Rubio's memories]. Both López Rodó and Navarro Rubio suggested Ullastres. [López Rodó's memories]. Without being a monolitic unit, López Rodó, Navarro Rubio and Ullastres worked together as a team, despite occasional frictions, to push for the administrative and economic modernization of the regime". --Uncertain 10:19, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Obviously biased
This page has yet to be unified & his obviously biased. It is undeniable that Catholic Church and, of course, Opus Dei which is widely considered (ask catholics people !) as a right-wing organization inside the Church (opposed to the Second Vatican Council), supported Franco. I have difficulties to understand why a supporter of Opus Dei would even think to deny this, since mainstream Church wouldn't even think in such attempt of Historical revisionism. I wonder why a conservative movement would try to deny its link to conservative Franco's Spain? Is someone here trying to insinuate Opus Dei supported Republicans during Spanish Civil War ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kaliz (talk • contribs) 02:48, 19 November 2005

Good point, Kaliz. I understand your point. In fact I proposed something similar in the talk page of the main article. I quote my own proposal:

 * an expert --Allen-- states that Opus Dei members (sociologically speaking and not institutionally speaking) acted towards Franco as Spanish Catholics would. Sociologically at the beginning of Franco's regime, they hailed him as a savior who liberated them from communism and anarchism; this attitude evolve through time and in the end, like most Catholics, they were 50-50 for Franco. And generally at present many Opus Dei members are politically conservative.

With what you have written here, I will now post this specific paragraph.

We are about to wrap up a long discussion on specific issues related to Franco and Opus Dei. We had to analyze the credentials of the experts.

I also saw the new category on Christianity and controversy and the Books critical of Christianity which is one of its sub-categories. The one book there is "Fascists in Christian Clothing : The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" by Richard Weisman. I suppose you placed all these. I'm not sure if what you wrote here is based on that book. You know that Wikipedia policy states that:

 * If we are to represent the dispute fairly, we should present competing views in proportion to their representation among experts on the subject, or among the concerned parties. From Jimbo Wales, September 2003, on the mailing
 * If a viewpoint is in the majority, then it should be easy to substantiate it with reference to commonly accepted reference texts;
 * If a viewpoint is held by a significant minority, then it should be easy to name prominent adherents;

So may ask the credentials of Richard Weisman (if he is your basis for your contributions); or are there other experts you want to put forward. Thanks. Thomas S. Major 05:46, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I edited out all original research and non-factual statements. Please keep in mind that facts in Wikipedia are facts of attribution.

 * Wikipedia itself does not analyze. It reports. The more credible the expert the more space should be given to him. Lafem 04:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

What a mess!
This article is a mess guys! So much repetition and then contradiction, sometimes within a single paragraph. The article needs a major clean-up! - 62.158.79.130 15:14, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Agree This article is a work of apologetics, not of history. It doesn't even attempt to give two sides of the story. There are also massive inconsistencies in it. The fact that it seems some words to avoid were removed from it doesn't make it any more balanced if the "wrong" side of the argument is either omitted or misrepresented. Jaimehy (talk) 16:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

 * To Jaimehy: Take a look before you leap. You have to take a look at the the messy version 62.158.79.130 was describing here when he wrote his comment April 14. That has been fixed since I made these edits. Your comments are not on the same page as his comments. Rabadur (talk) 08:28, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

 * The page is neutral and historical enough. It does have two sides of the story: criticism and response. Arturo Cruz (talk) 08:59, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

This article...
... seems more aimed at giving extra credibility to the theories denying Opus Dei's ultraconservatism than to paying attention to the facts proper. There is a gap between academics might say and the truth, and this gap is given by the fact that the few "non-Fascist" Opus representatives who are given credit in this article (Fontán among them) actually supported the Civil War in the first place, even if they delved into political subtleties later on while trying to pass for democrats. The gap is also given by the fact that someone with an excellent academic record and a proficient performance in his job (be it journalism in the case of Fontán, architecture in the case of Miguel Fisac or law in the case of López Rodó) is by no means representative of the vast majority of Opus members.

It only takes a visit with a hidden camera to an Opus-run elementary school, to see what all the students have to say on feminism, homosexuality, democracy or immigration.

Synecdoche is a very ugly thing to bring into such a debate. Saying that Opus was not formed by people who despised culture, progress and at times even intelligence, only because there sporadically were intelligent or educated members among them, is as false and disingenuous, and perhaps as stupid, as saying that ALL Nazis were as intelligent and creative as Josef Goebbels.

Even a fool could understand that.

Walter Sobchak0 (talk) 13:46, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't know enough about Opus Dei to rewrite this all but I wish someone would
I have to agree wholeheartedly with the past critiques of this article. Each section begins with vague references to "critics" with valid connections between Opus Dei and Nazi/fascist groups and then goes on to enumerate responses from members of the group intended to debunk these connections. This is not information, it's pure bias. 140.177.245.169 (talk) 04:15, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Update: I've reworded some of the very biased content in the "Hitler and Nazism" section. Changing phrases like the allegations being "negated" to "disputed" as little to none of the evidence refuting Escriva's opinions on the Holocaust have been provided by individuals outside the Opus Dei organization. Furthermore, I'll be keeping a very close eye on this page as I suspect it's the subject of targeted editing by Opus Dei members. 140.177.245.169 (talk) 04:59, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Allen overuse
I think Allen is overused in this article, we should pick two or three places to use him and can the rest. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:42, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

This page is a quality disaster
Many experts are of the opinion that this article contains Weasel Words. It also suffers from very poor formatting, for instance there are APA-like citations, some references in the bibliography occur twice, the bibliography is not generated using Template:Reflist. Not to mention the incessant political apologia. Overall this reads like a college paper written at a secondary school level by an uninterested sophomore concerned with things more important than whatever seminary class this might have been written for. How this has managed to exist since 2005, and how it has not been marked for deletion as a result of being so obviously deficient for so long boggles the mind. HighPriestDuncan (talk) 07:10, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

 * I should add that if this topic is of any importance to anyone, it can go live in draft space until it is ready to grow up and not mislead the casual reader. HighPriestDuncan (talk) 07:11, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Absolutely - this page is not even close to ready; it should go back to draft. Harmlesshumanist (talk) 18:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Opus Dei and politics


text: User talk:207.155.229.163

title: User talk:207.155.229.163


text:
User talk:Evilcaptpirate

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks.--Vertigo200 17:06, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Evilcaptpirate


text:
User:Oceanm

About me
Hi! My name is Murat ALKAN

Computers, Software, Programming, Linux, Movies, Physics v.s.

tr:User:Ocean simple:User:Ocean fr:User:Ocean

title: User:Oceanm


text:
Talk:Eagle River (Michigan)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Eagle River (Michigan). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/66gupqQDM?url=http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/ to http://viewer.nationalmap.gov/viewer/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:19, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Eagle River (Michigan)