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Talk:Qizilbash

"Qazilbash"
I have removed the spelling Qazilbash from the intro, because:

 * it is unsourced
 * it is uncommon
 * it is not confluent with Turkish vowel/vocalic harmony

Tajik (talk) 17:13, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I reverted to unnecessary edits by anon IPs. Tajik (talk) 20:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I reverted and unsourced/false claim by an IP. Tajik (talk) 17:50, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

 * The Qazilbash form appears to be used primarily in Pakistan; it is attested, e.g. in Gupta, Hari Ram (editor) (1956) Panjab on the eve of first Sikh War: a documentary study of the political, social and economic conditions of the Panjab as depicted in the daily letters written chiefly from Lahore by British intelligencers during the period 30 December, 1848 to 31 October, 1844 Department of History, Panjab University, Hoshiarpur, India, page 199, OCLC 460671525; and Khan, Tahawar Ali (1985) "Imtiaz Ali-Qazilbash" Biographical encyclopedia of Pakistan Biographical Research Institute, Lahore, Pakistan, page 101, OCLC 14193680. --Bejnar (talk) 15:24, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Ghulat
I removed the term ghulat from the introduction, since ghulat specifically refers to groups who excessively rever 'Ali in the eyes of both the Ahl al-Sunnah and the Shi'a. Ghulat groups include people like the Alawiyyah and Aleviyyah.--IsaKazimi (talk) 07:50, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I have reverted your edit, because the term "ghoulat" is sourced. R. Savory writes in the Encyclopaedia of Islam:
 * "In general, it is used loosely to denote a wide variety of extremist Sh ī'ī sects [see GH ULĀT], which flourished in [V:243b] Anatolia and Kurdistān from the late 7th/13th century onwards, including such groups as the Alevis ('Alawīs ; see A. S. Tritton, Islam : belief and practices, London 1951, 83)."
 * Tajik (talk) 18:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it wasn't these people who went on to found the Safavid empire as the article claims. The Safavid Empire was founded by Shah Isma'il as i suspect you already know. Shah Isma'il was not a ghulat (i.e. Alevi or Alawi), He was a mainsteam ithna ashari shi'i.--IsaKazimi (talk) 10:38, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Ismā'il was anything but an orthodox Ithnā‘asharī - after all, he claimed to be the "son of God", the "manifestation of God". Ismā'il's claim being the "manifestation of God" was a driving force of the Qizilbash in the Battle of Chaldiran. Keeping that aside, the Encyclopaedia of Islam is authoritative. Ithnā‘asharī Shiism which is not the original Shiism but is highly influenced by traditional, pan-Arab Sunnism, gained ground in Persia after the devastating defeat of the Safavids in the Battle of Chaldiran and after Abbās the Great became Shah with the help of Arab and Persian ulamā. Tajik (talk) 15:55, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Where is your evidence that Shah Isma'il claimed to be the 'Son of God'? Indeed, he did exaggerate his importance as monarch, but that is not the same as claiming some sort of divinity. Remember that his father was a Sunni Sheykh, who converted to mainstream Ithna'ashari Shi'ism. Thus, his son followed into the same religious believes. The defeat in the Battle of Chaldiran proves nothing. The Ottoman Empire opposed all Shi'ism, not just Ghulat Shi'ism. Which is why the fued between the two empires continued after Isma'il I and Abbas the Great. Also, your claim that Twelver Shi'ism isn't the original is disputed and by no means proven on either side.--IsaKazimi (talk) 18:05, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Read this. As for Shiism: as analyzed by Iranian scholar M.A. Amir-Moezzi (who is regarded a 1st-class specialist on Shiism and Shia history), there is a conspicuously large amount of pre-Islamic (Indo-)Iranian influence on Shiism as a whole. This includes the belief in "Imams" and the line of succession from father to son (very similar to the Zoroastrian concept of "farr"), the legendary figures of Shahrbanu and Salman al-Farsi whose existence is rejected my modern scholars, the "Nahj al-Balagha", the characterization of Ali and his family, etc etc etc. All of this had started much earlier, with the proto-Shia and pro-Zoroastrian Khurramites, with the proto-Shia Firdausi, and so forth, but the Safavids were the first ones to fully legitimize this belief and establish it as an alternative Islamic view. The orthodox character of modern Iranian Shiism was formed much much later. Modern-day Alevites in Turkey are a testimony to this. They are descendants of those Safavid supporters who, after the Battle of Chaldiran, were re-located by the Ottoman sultan in order to minimize the Safavid influence on them. They have kept the original Safavid and Qizilbash belief, free of any other influence, while in Iran the religion gradually shifted toward a Sunni-influenced, pan-Arab, orthodox madhhab (which is natural, because the population of Iran was Sunni previously and the Safavid era resulted in a mix of Sunni and Shia views, keeping the overall Shia faith, but heavily influenced by the original conservative habits of the formerly Sunni population).  Tajik (talk) 20:36, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the article, it was interesting. However, I object to a few things. To say that Shi'ism has been built on the foundations of Majusi theology doesn't explain how Twelver Shi'ism prevails in Lebanon. The fact is that historically there were at least 11 Imams (even if many reject the 12th), all of whom accepted their Imamate. Yet none of them were Majusi-influenced. You make out that Twelver Shi'a Islam started in Iran, during the Safavid era. This is just not true. As I have said. The same Twelver Shi'a Islam already existed in (what is now called) Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Iraq. Also, which scholars reject the existance of Salman al-Farisi? As for the Aleviyyah, they are just a group who have blended original Turkish/Kurdish shemanic practices with some Sufi and Twelver Shi'a aspects. It is the acceptance of the former that has made them hereodox, not the later. Remember also, that the Safavid Empire invited many Shi'a ulama to come to Iran from the various parts of the Muslim world to help propagate Twelver Shi'a Islam there.--IsaKazimi (talk) 22:25, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The number of Imams is disputed among Shia groups - and has always been disputed. To make it even more complicated: the actual existence of the first Imams (including Ali and his sons) is disputed by some leading scholars, leaving aside the fact that in modern conferences on Islamic history, the entire early history of Islam is disputed (see Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World and The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Koran). However, this is off-topic. As for the Qizilbash: they were originally a "ghulat" movement, with heterodox beliefs ("son of God", etc). Their link to pre-Islamic Zoroastrian beliefs is also partially confirmed by their habits, i.e. wearing red robes, very similar to the Khurramites and Mazdakites. Tajik (talk) 16:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call the two that write that book 'leading scholars'. As you can see, most of their contemporaries have rejected it. Anyway, I am not denying that the Qizilbash are (or were) ghulat. I am denying that the Safavid Empire were Qizilbash. It is the line that states as such that I am challenging.--IsaKazimi (talk) 15:42, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The two scholars mentioned are indeed controversial, but their expertise is undisputed. Others, for example Rüdiger Puin, are regarded the most important scholars in their field of interest. Puin, for example, was the first to analyze the "Quran of Yemen" (also known as Sana'a manuscripts), the oldest Quran ever discovered. Analyzing it, he came to the conclusion that the entire modern interpretation of the Quran as well as the early history of Islam (as taught in the Muslim world) is wrong. He was the first to postulate that the original Quran was written outside of Arabia and that its original language was a dialect of Aramaic. But, again, this is off-topic. Tajik (talk) 16:55, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no doubt, that the Safavid Empire was Qizilbash when it was established in 1501. But the state was soon to become orthodox after the death of Shah Tahmasb. Shah Ismail himself was the spiritual leader (murshid-i kamil) of the Qizilbash people, and his hundreds of poems also reveal that he was a Qizilbash. It is also known that Shah Tahmasb also had strong connections to heterodoxy, even though he was more orthodox than his father. But by the time of Shah Abbas, the Safavid Empire, as a state, was "cleaned" from heterodoxy, but still making propaganda among the Qizilbash people in Anatolia. As for the people living in the Safavid Empire, you are right. They were to become orthodox Shi'ites already during the reign of Shah Isma'il. But it is also known, that there lots of heterodoxy existed (e.g. Ahl-i Haqq, Nimatullahi, Mushashaiyya, Khakhsar, Qalandar, Darvish etc.) among those people, before some of them became orthodox. (Xizilbash (talk) 15:10, 11 April 2010 (UTC))

Notable people - notability required
It seems that the list in this article of Notable people has been filled with non-notable persons, or persons whose notability has not been established. Please see Notability: Lists of People. Each entry must either link to a Wikipedia article for that person, or it must have a footnote, or footnotes, to a reliable, verifiable source that establishes notability and the individual's connection to the list. Entries that do not, are likely to be deleted. --Bejnar (talk) 18:25, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Mugul princes
There have been no sources proposed for the suggestion that the Mughal princes were Qizilbash. It is highly unlikely. I have deleted the unsourced paragraph. However, there are sources that discuss the Qizilbash in the Mughal Empire, for example, Rose, H. A. (compiler) (1997) A glossary of the tribes and castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province: Volume 3, L—Z Nirmal Publishers and Distributors, New Delhi, India, page 259, ISBN 81-85297-71-1, reprint of 1911 edition and based upon the Census Report for the Punjab, 1883, by Denzil Ibbetson, and the Census Report for the Punjab, 1892, by Edward Maclagan which says: Many of the great Mughal ministers were Qizilbash and notably Mir Jutnla, the famous minister of Aurangzeb. --Bejnar (talk) 15:47, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

RV
I have reverted a good faith edit by an IP. Although his information is sourced, the mentioned tribe was neither a founding member nor part of the politically important or influential groups. See the respective article in the Encyclopaedia of Islam. Tajik (talk) 19:34, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Cut and Paste?
Much of the history section feels to be cut-and-pasted from another work- can anyone say if this is the case?Mavigogun (talk) 16:06, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

 * No, but it includes direct quotes from the Encyclopaedia of Islam. Tajik (talk) 18:31, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Direct quotes need to be directly quoted- otherwise, it's simple plagiarism; which answers the question.  The whole section needs be rewritten.Mavigogun (talk) 19:52, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Big lie in wikipedia about Gizilbash army - please read Iran history - cambridge - oxford university
This is big lie about gizilbash army as pan persian iranian included in wikepedia: source belong to pan persian racist writer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qizilbash:

"The non-Turkic or non-Turkish-speaking Iranian tribes among the Kizilbash were called Tājiks by the Turcomans and included"

while 500 years ago iran recreated by Gizilbash army (7 falilies from Ardebil + Shahsavan people under shah abbas) NO MORE 1- Tājiks and uzbeks were in war with gizilbah for 100 years how they could be a part of it! 2- Qizilbah is just azari word not persian or uzbek or bakhtiari or tajik 3- Gizilbah people were shia and tajiks and uzbek are sunni muslims

please correct this lie in your site

Good references about Qizilbashs
http://books.google.com/books?id=uAzGTtWlp7gC&pg=PA44&dq=qizilbash+open+membership&hl=en&ei=G3tQTf7eOMO78gbUy6zuDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=qizilbash%20open%20membership&f=false --2.203.152.182 (talk) 18:01, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Another reference (from another article): "...hundreds of thousands of Kizilbash (Shia) Turcomans from Anatolia arrived into Azerbaijan, being forced out by the Ottoman Sultan Selim I with more to follow." Azari Language

And, "Azari" or "Adhari" was close to Tat and Talish language. Thanks to Kizilbash (and to Iosif Stalin), it is called "Azerbaijani" now and it is Turkic ;( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azari_Language - nothing "racist"... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Funtick (talk • contribs) 01:34, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Kurdistan
Quote from the respective article in the Encyclopaedia of Islam (one of the most authoritative sources available; article written by Vladimir Minorsky, one of the foremost experts on the subject), Roger M. Savory, one of the most renowned experts on Safavid hostory: KIZILBĀ SH (T. “Red-head”). [...] In general, it is used loosely to denote a wide variety of extremist Sh ī'ī sects [see GHULĀT], which flourished in [V:243b] Anatolia and Kurdistān from the late 7th/13th century onwards, including such groups as the Alevis (Alawīs ; see A. S. Tritton, Islam : belief and practices, London 1951, 83). So please do not remove it! --Lysozym (talk) 01:06, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Since that was in dispute, could you properly footnote that in the article? Was Minorsky citing Tritton? --Bejnar (talk) 18:28, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * He is citing Tritton regarding the Alevis. The correct geopolitical use of "Anatolia" and "Kurdistan" (which is not part of "Anatolia") is by Minorsky Savory himself. --Lysozym (talk) 23:03, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have to correct myself regarding the author of the article: it's not Minosrky, but Roger M. Savory, perhaps the most important expert on Safavid history right now. Minorsky is being cited in the article. --Lysozym (talk) 23:15, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Fully protected for 2 days
Needs resolution by discussion. Dougweller (talk) 05:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

 * Thank you. But there is nothing to discuss here. "Qizilbash" is a name given to a political and religious movement, not to an ethnic group. It was not a united entity and for most of the time, the many fractions of the movement were in opposition to each other, especially the many powerful Turkoman tribes. --Lysozym (talk) 13:02, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

 * Then any ethnic category or template is unnecessary and misleading for this article? Zyma (talk) 13:45, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Qizilbash Turcoman
, Your original opinion about Qizilbash doesn't matter. All profile sources identify Qizilbash as Turkoman Tribesmen. Your sources ( Voices of Islam, Global Interactions in the Early Modern Age, 1400–1800.) are not specialized neither on Safavid Empire nor Qizilbash. Read the sources:

From its inception Safavid state had relied on the military power of the Qizilbash, the Turkoman tribesmen

Their main supporters were Turkmen tribal groups known as the Qezelbāš (Qizilbāš)

''As will be partly evaluated in Chapter VIII, immediately following the foundation of the Safavid state in 1501, two fundamentally different and contesting groups appeared within the Safavid realm: on the one side there was the Turcoman (tribal) qizilbash military aristocracy, which founded the state and held military ranks...

''The term Qizilbash, for this paper at least, refers to those Turkmen tribes who had inhabited eastern Anatolia, northern Syria, and the Armenian highlands and had become the backbone of the Safavid Dynasty starting with the founder, Shah Isma’il I. It has been argued that the term could also e applicable to certain non-Turkish speaking Iranian tribes such as the Talish, Kurds, or Lurs. However, the vast majority of those who had composed the main force of the Qizilbash were the Turkmen tribes. The Qizilbash tribal structure, according to Minorsky, was subdivided into eight or nine main tribal confederations, depending on the period in question, and had included some of the most prominent tribes that had once helped Shah Isma’il I to establish his empire''

So all your "arguments" are ruined. Also, why you deleted Willem Floor and Hasan Javadi's The Role of Azerbaijani Turkish in Safavid Iran? It's WP:DIS. Read this, Mr. History of Iran, and improve your knowledge in Safavid history:

''Throughout the Safavid period there were two constants to Azerbaijani Turkish as a spoken language in Iran. First, it was and remained the official language of the royal court during the entire Safavid period. Second, the language remained the spoken language of the Turkic Qizilbash tribes and was also spoken in the army.''. John Francis Templeson (talk) 11:32, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

The Kizilbash are mainly associated with the Turkomans who spoke an Oghuz-type language and it is they who have been credited with bringing the Safavids to power.. John Francis Templeson (talk) 23:05, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

 * I didn't even get a notification, you'll have to ping me some other way. The only reason I aam here is because I saw you do some editing on my Watchlist. Not even gonna argument with you, since it is simply a fact that the Qizilbash also included non-Turks, such as the Zanganeh, and even Afghans (one of the many reasons you can't call Qizilbash a 'Turkic group', which is only seen in the Russian/Azeri Wikipedia where no one is there to stop your historical revionistic edits) etc etc. Take your disruptive editing to the Russian Wikipedia as you did earlier, thanks. Also, you might wanna take a look here as well . --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:34, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK, what is this? CIV violation, ignoring arguement. Good. I guess you have no idea how Wikipedia works. You think these world-wide known historians are less educated than you and don't know about non-Turkic Qizilbash tribes? See the last source, Turcomans composed the vast majority of Qizilbash confederations, moreover in XV-XVI century Qizilbash consisted only of Turcomans. Somethimg changed after Shah Abbas, but still if 90% of Qizilbash were Turks and 10% Talish, kurd, Afghan etc. we can't deny that Qizilbash in fact was Turkic movement. Yes, how Wikipedia works. We see the source. We see that other sources don't contradict this source. We add former source. And that's all. And your personal views don't matter. Will call for 30. John Francis Templeson (talk) 10:57, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

 * More ignoring what was stated, I see.
 * Frontier Nomads of Iran: A Political and Social History of the Shahsevan, Richard Tapper, Cambridge University Press, page 44. Qizilbash tribes had an open membership.
 * "Ah, OK, what is this? CIV violation, ignoring arguement."
 * Ah, no that is what you did here.
 * "..moreover in XV-XVI century Qizilbash consisted only of Turcomans."
 * Stated by what source on what page? Sounds like original research to me.
 * "Good. I guess you have no idea how Wikipedia works."
 * Wow. Cry foul every time someone says something you don't like, then spew out a personal attack?
 * "And your personal views don't matter."
 * Neither does your personal opinion. --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:26, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

 * , I offer you to include both views. But you still don't want to add referenced information, supported by specialists above. Why we should hush up one academic view on the question and support other one? This scholars know that there were Talishis, Kurds, Afghans, but still in the first two centuries of the existence of Qizilbash they were solely Turkoman and even after the reforms of Shah Abbas Turkomans continued to compose the vast majority of Qizilbash warriors. John Francis Templeson (talk) 22:03, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

 * "..moreover in XV-XVI century Qizilbash consisted only of Turcomans."
 * Stated by what source on what page? --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:34, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Ah, will send you later. Let's talk about essence. You will continue to ignore sources that identify Qizilbash as Turkomans, or we will finally add sources mentioned by me in preamble? John Francis Templeson (talk) 23:04, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

 * "You will continue to ignore sources that identify Qizilbash as Turkomans..."
 * Excuse me? I think you have been warned more than enough about misrepresenting other editors arguments(ie. strawman arguments).
 * Either produce the source supporting this statement;
 * ""..moreover in XV-XVI century Qizilbash consisted only of Turcomans.''
 * Or you have nothing. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:18, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Please be careful with WP:CIV. Such threats as Or you have nothing shouldn't be used in Wikipedia.
 * "The point of eminence to be stressed here is that except the Shamlu, which was from northern Syria-eastern Anatolia, and the Qajar from Azerbayjan886, these tribes were all from Anatolia; and almost all were nomadic Turkomans. Among the seventeen prominent qizilbash āmirs marching on Shirvan, records Safavid sources, there were two Shamlu, two Ustaclu, two Karamanlu, one Bayburdlu, one Hınıslu, one Tekelu, one Çekirlu, one Qajar, one Dulkadirlu, and five Afshar"

- Riza Yildirim, “Turkomans between Two Empires:The Origins of the Qizilbash Identity in Anatolia (1447–1514) .
 * Now. Will you explain on what grounds you oppose the adding of 6 (6!) reliable academic sources?? John Francis Templeson (talk) 17:49, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Sigh, this 'source' of yours still doesn't support what you said about the Qizilbash. Also, he is not threatening you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:03, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Still see nothing supporting, "..moreover in XV-XVI century Qizilbash consisted only of Turcomans." Sounds like original research. So you have nothing to support said opinion. Excuse me? I think you have been warned about this as well. Take your opinion elsewhere. You do not decide policy on Wikipedia. --Kansas Bear (talk) 19:09, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * "Please be careful with WP:CIV."
 * "Such threats as Or you have nothing shouldn't be used in Wikipedia."

Discussion
Hi, colleagues! 2 years passed since we were discussing this stuff :D Sorry, couldn't manage to continue contributing English Wikipedia. So, as I remember, you were against my edit and your only argument was "There were also other elements among Qizilbash, not only Turks". Well, Wikipedia works in this way: We take academic sources (peer-reviewed, specialized on the topic) and write what they write. So, if academic source gives definition of Qizilbash as Turkic tribesmen, then we give the same definition in Wikipedia, even if the same source states, that actually there were also non-Turks; definition is definition, it has nothing to do with minor exceptions. And according to generally accepted definition of Qizilbash, they are Turkic tribesmen, so, sorry, everything beyond that is original research. I've shown several academic sources that prove my statement (and I can show literally dozens more, if the problem is quantity), so that's it. And, yes, there were Persian and Kurdish elements, but in negligible size. See, e.g. Cambridge History of Iran. On pp.357 and 629 the source clearly indicate Qizilbash as Turkic tribesmen, although pointing that in different periods and places there were other, more broad terms (We can point the latter fact, of course, but I hope we won't give the definition of Qizilbash as Persian merchants :D). On p.342-343 CHI also states that there were actually some Persians and Kurds, but their number, as I already said, was too small to consider them (so CHI still insist on Turkic nature of Qizilbash). Of course, this fact should be in article, but, again, this is not sufficient to ignore the generally accepted definition of Qizilbash as Turkic tribesmen. John Francis Templeson (talk) 14:47, 3 April 2019 (UTC) P.S. Also I would insist on the deletion of statement about referring Qizilbash as Shi'a groups, as there are no sources of sufficient quality to claim that. One of the sources actually gives the definition of Qizilbash as Turkic tribesmen (funny fact, yes? :D). I didn't manage to access other source, but it is doubtful that we can really rely on it. I don't know how it is in English Wikipedia, but in Russian Wikipedia we use only specialized sources (e.g., we use only monography about Safavids in the article on Safavids, but not some general book about Islam, unless the part about Safavids is written by expert in that field). If there is a special article concerning Qizilbash of Safavids, let it be, but if there is only a sentence or two... nope. There is also Savory, but he considers totally different group, denoted with the same name from XIII c., that is Shi'a sects, e.g. Alevis. I don't think that we can mix them with Qizilbash warriors. And yes, not just some Qizilbash contributed to the creation of the Safavid Empire, but they all and not just contributed, but created (see, Savory; there wouldn't be Safavid Empire w/out Qizilbash). Thank you. Will wait for your response. John Francis Templeson (talk) 14:59, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

RfC
Should we define Qizilbash as militant groups or Turkic tribesmen. Sources and arguments are above. John Francis Templeson (talk) 11:39, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

 * Militant groups - we have been through this a billion times, but you only hear what you like to hear. Stop spamming this article and the talk page of other users (including myself). Years have passed and you're still going on with this. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:47, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Take your concerns to the section above. I have made an extensive analysis and brought several peer-reviewed sources. And you have not explained why we cannot accept these sources. Your only argument was that there were also Iranian elements — well, CHI clearly indicates that, their number and ifluence were too small and defines Qizilbash as Turkic tribesmen. I am "spamming" your talk pages, because the procedure of conflict resolution is like this, do you think that I have some other reasons? John Francis Templeson (talk) 11:56, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * We were already through this a few years ago, I'm not going to delve into this again. Neither me nor seemingly the other users want anything to do with this issue of yours, hence why you are getting reverted on talk pages, and hence why it is indeed spamming/harrassing. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:02, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I've already suggested to give two definition, as it always done when there is no consensus among the scholars. And if you will bring sources that support your opinion, we will consider them also. " Neither me nor seemingly the other users want anything to do with this issue of yours, hence why you are getting reverted on talk pages, and hence why it is indeed spamming/harrassing." Oh, cool, if I don't notify, I will be accused in keeping other editors non-acquainted with the issue, and if I do, I will be banned for spamming. Rules in Wikipedia works pretty well, yeah. And yes, I have returned to this issue, because it was discussed only by interested editord and never unbiased comment was given by someone else. The latter is what I want. John Francis Templeson (talk) 12:11, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * P.S. I repeat, I notified you and Kansas Bear, because procedure demands it. Do not think that I want something from you or I try to troll you. John Francis Templeson (talk) 12:13, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * You claim that you know the Wikipedia rules and such, yet you just accused several users for being biased because they don't agree with your POV, lol. Clever move. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:16, 4 May 2019 (UTC)\
 * Basically, we are two interested sides, because we are engaged in the same discussion from the opposite side. Points of view sometimes can contradict each other. It is normal, otherwise there won't be 3O, RfC, DRN and etc. What wrong I said? And yes, I am persistently being accused in all sins. Yes, my conduct was not that well two years ago, but does it mean that I cannot engage in discussion of topics that interest me? John Francis Templeson (talk) 12:21, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * P.S. I know rules in Russian Wikipedia, but there everything is way more complicated and strange. Someone makes a personal attack, I appeal to the Incident noticeboard and everyone threatens me with Boomerang, because two years ago I did something. This is lol. John Francis Templeson (talk) 12:24, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Speak for yourself, it seems like you're the only "interested side" here. I'm done here. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:26, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Be less rude. Maybe I've chosen the wrong word -- OK, we are sides of the discussion. And yes, if I will have to notify you, how I'll do? John Francis Templeson (talk) 12:29, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Greetings, John Francis Templeson. The guide about notifications is in WP:NOTIFS. -The Gnome (talk) 17:03, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

 * Note: This is yet another frivolous attempt to WP:GAME the system by a "user" with a long history of WP:TENDENTIOUS conduct. He's been asked on numerous occassions to drop the stick, but clearly doesn't seem to be interested. For more information, please view this ANI case and this elaborate message- on his talk page by . - LouisAragon (talk) 12:29, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I repeat that no matter what I have done two years ago. Now, I try to be very polite, constructive, improve my conduct. What I want is just the final decision on this topic. If RfC won't support my suggestions, I will go. What do you want else for me? John Francis Templeson (talk) 12:33, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
 * , I repeat, my intention is not to troll or vandalize. Let's be more tolerant to each other. You won't loss anything if there will be comment from another editor, yes? John Francis Templeson (talk) 12:39, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

"The word Qizilbash derives from Turkish Kızılbaş"
I ask for a reliable source for such a statement in the section "Etymology". "Turkish" indicates Turkey, but there are other Oghuz languages. There is confusion about the names of languages. V.N.Ali (talk) 00:35, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * As I've just said in my edit summary, please read the end of the sentence, that bit is sourced. What confusion? What should Turkish otherwise indicate? What did the Ottomans speak? This bit is also mentioned down further below in the article; The rise of the Ottomans put a great strain on the Turkmen tribes living in the area, which eventually led them to join the Safavids, who transformed them into a militant organisation, called the Qizilbash (meaning "red heads" in Turkish), initially a pejorative label given to them by the Ottomans, but later adopted as a mark of pride.[26][27]. Consider this your last warning, if you fill articles articles or talk pages with more of your personal opinion this will be taken to WP:ANI. --HistoryofIran (talk) 00:43, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Military unit
the Qizilbash are a military unit of greater Persia and it's dynasties.

the Qizilbash are not an ethnic group!

11:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)11:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)11:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)43.242.179.18 (talk) 11:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\11:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)11:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)11:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)\\\\\

India
the Qizilbash may have been courtiers of the Great Mogul (emperor), evidence suggests that these military units fought the second and third battle of Panipat in favour of a unified "Mogul India".

12:02, 10 March 2024 (UTC)43.242.179.18 (talk) 12:02, 10 March 2024 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\\\12:02, 10 March 2024 (UTC)12:02, 10 March 2024 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\12:02, 10 March 2024 (UTC)\\\\\\\\

title: Talk:Qizilbash


text: Category:Ships of the United Kingdom

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Ships of the United Kingdom


text:
Talk:Wellesley High School

Purpose of Wellesley High School Wikipedia Entry
This wiki article was created to provide information about WHS to students, parents, and those looking into joining the WHS community. We hope that this is a valuable resource, and as always with Wiki, feel free to make productive changes and update information. Thanks, and enjoy. -Creators 10/2005 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Comp8956 (talk • contribs) 21:48, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Hatch Visit
Perhaps someone ought to write a section about Senator Hatch's visit to WHS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.106.86 (talk) 00:11, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Sylvia Plath
I just reverted a long section created by Fluffynutty with regards to Sylvia Plath. The list on this page is for historical alumni, not an indepth biographical examination of her attempted suicide. You might consider adding that info. to the Sylvia Plath article. Joshdboz 21:38, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Matt Flanagan? Remove or replace with David Rempis
I have to take issue with Matthew Flanagan being listed as one of the "famous" WHS alums. He co-wrote a script starring Jessica Simpson? In Flanagan's same class, there is an actor named Timothy Dowling who appeared in The Beautician and the Beast. That is at least the same level of fame. For another example, David Rempis, who graduted in 1993, is now considered one of the premiere jazz artists in the country (just look him up on Google and compare the number of articles you get versus the number of entires for Matt Flanagan). All due respect, I really think Mr. Flanagan should be removed; this reeks of favoritism. 24.91.122.241 01:21, 22 June 2007 (UTC)Kafka

Rempis vs. Flanagan: A zero-sum game?
I have to take issue with your deletion of Flanagan and addition of Rempis. Ms. Simpson's acting abilities aside, it is quite an accomplishment to get a Hollywood script produced. And I don't think a Google search is a good measure of one's accomplishments. I'm sure Mr. Rempis is an excellent jazz musician, and I'm glad to hear he's doing well for himself, but certainly his more unusual surname makes it much more likely to appear on a search. Why not bring back Flanagan (and Dowling for good measure) and add to this list rather than subtract from it? 07 July 2007 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.62.248.181 (talk) 21:27, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Whslogo.jpg
Image:Whslogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Living alumni
I deleted all the unsourced notable alumni per WP:Living persons. If any of the information can be sourced and re-added, that would be great. Ashill (talk) 02:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Encyclopaedic
I was hoping someone vested in this article is willing to go through and improve it in terms of neutrality, point of view, removing unencyclopedic information. I am willing, but there is likely going to be some leak in information, someone closer to this would be better. It needs attention really bad. -- Lucas20 (talk) 02:39, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I made significant changes, please refer to School article guidelines, Neutral point of view, Citing additions before making revisions or additions. Thanks.  -- Lucas20 (talk) 00:23, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Elections
Recent elections have happened in both student congress and student government. I need the Student Congress positions and the Junior officers updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.42.102 (talk) 07:01, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

We need the Freshman results for the 2010-2011 officer school year, and can someone look over the other ones too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.42.102 (talk) 00:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Cultural Memory
— Assignment last updated by EverythingBagelGirl22 (talk) 16:00, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wellesley High School


text:
Rhodesian Light Infantry

The 1st Battalion, Rhodesian Light Infantry (1RLI), commonly The Rhodesian Light Infantry (RLI), was a regiment formed in 1961 at Brady Barracks (Bulawayo, Southern Rhodesia) as a light infantry unit within the army of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland. Barely a year after its creation, it was relocated to Cranborne Barracks (Salisbury) where its headquarters remained for the rest of its existence. The Regiment became part of the Southern Rhodesian Army when the Federation dissolved at the start of 1964 and, later that year, reformed into a commando battalion.

After Rhodesia's Unilateral Declaration of Independence on 11 November 1965, the RLI became one of the country's main counter-insurgency units during the Rhodesian Bush War, which pitted the all-white (later white-controlled) government's security forces against the rival guerrilla campaigns of Zimbabwe African National Liberation Army (ZANLA) and the Zimbabwe People's Revolutionary Army (ZIPRA).

An all-white regiment, the RLI was made up wholly of professional soldiers until 1973, when capable conscripted national servicemen were first introduced. Foreign volunteers from across the world, including many veterans of foreign conflicts, also joined and became a key part of the Regiment. The RLI was nicknamed "The Saints" or "The Incredibles."

So prominent were the airborne aspects of typical RLI operations that the battalion became a parachute regiment in 1976. The RLI served under the short-lived government of Zimbabwe Rhodesia in 1979, and the interim British government that followed. After serving under the new government of Zimbabwe for a brief period, the unit was disbanded in October 1980.

The RLI's tactics and training contributed to repeated successes in its counter-insurgency operations. "The advantage this gave them..." says United States Army Lieutenant-Colonel Dave Grossman, "...added up to nothing less than total tactical superiority." Alexandre Binda writes that the RLI "...earned for itself an enviable reputation as one of the world's foremost anti-terrorist forces," while Major Charles D. Melson, chief historian of the United States Marine Corps, calls it "The Killing Machine".

Commandos
The regiment was assembled into a headquarters and four company-sized units called commandos: One, Two, Three and Support (each commando with ± 100 men). As a premise, a commando could have five troops, of which only four troops were normally activated. However, with the arrival of Intake 150 (in May 1976), the commandos were up to full strength for the first and only time. Some of the commandos mustered five troops until the end of 1976; with the university students demobbing at the end of 1976, the commandos reverted to four troops (in 2 Commando's case 9 Troop was deactivated). The troops in each commando relayed R&R consistently one at a time, which meant that the average fighting strength of a commando in bush mode was just over 70 men. Depending on the deployment and/or purpose, troops were divided into a small headquarters and either two 'patrols' or three 'sections'. Support Commando had a history dissimilar to all the other units and had been called Support Group for the era prior to 1976.

Base group
Battalion Headquarters – Front and Rear – was called Base Group after Support Group branched out from the original Headquarters Company. Base Group imparted logistical, operational and tactical support at the Front, through specialised sub-units, and organised administrative support (regimental policing, training, store keeping, record keeping and accounting, trucking, catering, nursing, etc.) at the Rear. A sizable portion of the administrative support was performed by detachments from various military services (Services Corps, Medical Corps, etc.) stationed at Cranborne Barracks.

Signals Troop and Tracking Troop
Signals Troop and Tracking Troop were specialised sub-units that interpolated into Support Group or Base Group and worked with all the Commandos. A high percentage of Signals Troop had served in one or more Commandos before being selected and trained (in-house) as communicators; they focused on front line communications in support of special operations and airborne forces. Others were trained by the Corps of Signals and provided essential services (exchange of classified information, etc.) for the Battalion. During the early planning stages for proposed changes to Support Group, it was accepted that Base Group was more suitable as the cynosure for all signals. The troop headquarters section was relocated to the RLI Joint Operations Command (JOC), and a team of specialist operators – properly cross-trained as proficient riflemen for combat duties – was attached to and deployed with each of the Commandos. So Signals Troop was scattered but still functioned as the vital organ that connected all the detachments in the combined operations network.

Tracking Troop was also sedulous and operated out of Base Group in the same manner as Signals Troop; a number of specialist trackers would be attached to a Commando as/when required to be dropped onto spoor for follow-up work. The new Selous Scouts Regiment had requested some specialist trackers for a combative tracking unit, so Tracking Troop was disbanded and a distinct home found for everyone concerned – primarily within the Selous Scouts unit and RLI, but also the SAS (Rhodesian Special Air Service). The majority were transmigrated to Support Group where they eventually became known as Reconnaissance Troop after the change to a Commando was actualised.

Support Group/Commando
Support Commando had been called Support Group and came from the original Headquarters Company; consequently, they had some additional skills and resources.

Support Commando had a Headquarters and four cross-trained Troops: Mortar, Assault Pioneer, Anti-Tank and Reconnaissance, so every commando was a similar size (4 troops). The troops were not renamed because they maintained their capacity to provide the battalion with supporting fire and specialised resources in both conventional warfare and counter insurgency operations. During most counter-insurgency operations Support Commando fulfilled the same role as all the other commandos, which was enough to justify the change from being called Support Group.

Mortar Troop was equipped with 81mm mortars and consisted of a headquarters section and three purposeful sections (two mortars per section). Assault Pioneer Troop provided the Battalion with combat engineering capabilities through a headquarters section and three purposeful sections. Anti-Tank Troop was equipped with six 106mm recoilless rifles, and also consisted of a headquarters section and three purposeful sections (two anti-tank weapons per section, each mounted on a modified Rodef 2.5). The remnants of Tracking Troop, with additional resources for reconnoitering, were the basis for the fourth troop: Reconnaissance Troop.

Ranks
The RLI was a fledgling unit when operations started, and it needed to grow and mature; albeit a very prominent unit in the permanent forces, its size did not warrant a full Colonel. Sometimes the Officer Commanding a Commando/Group was a Captain. The ranks above Colour (Staff) Sergeant were addressed as "Sir" by the subordinate ranks. The Officers would refer to a CSM (WO2) as "Sergeant Major" and the RSM (WO1) as "R-S-M". All ranks tended to be called "troopies" by the Rhodesian media.

Operations
The RLI was at the forefront of the Rhodesian Bush War, a conflict between the internationally unrecognised government, made up mostly of the country's minority whites, and communist guerrillas attempting to overthrow it and introduce majority rule. The Bush War had started in earnest on 21 December 1972, when Zimbabwe African National Liberation Army (ZANLA) insurgents attacked Altena and Whistlefield Farms near the north-eastern town of Centenary, and lasted until the Lancaster House Agreement of 1979. The country became known as Zimbabwe the following year.

Fireforce actions
The RLI's characteristic deployment was the Fireforce rapid response operation, first created at Mount Darwin and then tested at Centenary in June 1974. This was an operational assault or reaction composed of a first wave of 32 soldiers (as a rule) carried to the scene by three helicopters and one DC-3 Dakota, called "Dak", with a command/gun helicopter and a light attack aircraft in support. The latter was a Cessna Skymaster, armed with two roof mounted .303 Browning machine-guns and normally two 37 mm SNEB rocket pods and/or two small napalm bombs called Frantans, and/or two mini-Golf bombs which were manufactured in Rhodesia. The RLI became extremely adept at the execution of this very technical type of military operation.

A Commando would be based at an airfield with usually four helicopters, one DC-3 Dakota and the Cessna (known as the "Lynx"). One of these helicopters was equipped with a MG 151/20 20mm cannon and seating arrangement for the mastermind of the engagement, usually the officer commanding of the Commando. This helicopter was called the K-car with a crew of three consisting of the pilot, a technician (gunner), and the fireforce commander. The other helicopters used in each call-out, known as G-cars, were typically Alouette Mk IIIs, though in 1979 a few Bell UH-1s were used.

The G-cars were armed with fully automatic weapons (the original FN MAG was replaced by twin Browning .303 machine-guns) and each carried one Stop – the stick leader, a machine-gunner and two riflemen – along with the pilot and his technician, who also operated the helicopter's machine-gun(s). The carrying capacity of the G-car dictated the combat organisation of the Commando: Stop-1 was assigned to the first G-car, Stop-2 to the second, and Stop-3 to the third. Stop-4 to Stop-8 were paratroopers in the Dakota.

In more detail, each Stop of four soldiers (called a "Stick") had: one leader with a FN FAL and 100 rounds (also a VHF radio to communicate); one machine-gunner with a FN MAG and 400 rounds; and two riflemen, each with a FN FAL and 100 rounds (plus hand-grenades, rifle-grenades and medical supplies). All the rounds were 7.62 × 51 mm NATO. From early 1979 onward, a radio was also issued to one of the riflemen. The Dakota carried five stops of paratroopers, two on the port side and three on the starboard side. Apart from the parachutes, paratroopers equipment was tantamount to heliborne-troopers equipment; but the paratroopers had other problems akin to jumping. Every machine-gunner had to jump with his weapon strapped to his side.

Together the eight stops, 32 men in total, were described as the "First Wave". Each Fireforce took charge of huge swathes of the country (many thousands of square miles). Inherently there were only three permanent Fireforce bases. Any sighting of the enemy was reported and a siren sounded at the most convenient base. The First Wave of heliborne-troopers, already in a state of alacrity, would grab their weapon and webbing (and everything else that they needed) while rushing to the helicopters. At the same time, the paratroopers would run to a designated place where their equipment was kept ready, and dispatchers (usually assisted by off-duty comrades) would help them kit out.

Normally the Second Wave, called the Landtail, rushed to trucks, although if "jousting" or the "scene" was nearby they would wait at the airfield to be picked up by the helicopters after the First Wave had been deployed. Soldiers alternated as Heliborne troopers, Paratroopers, Landtail, and Off-duty throughout the Bush Trip. The Landtail was often an important factor as they helped with refueling the helicopters and recovering the deceased enemy (and their weapons), the parachutes and other equipment.

Sometimes a smaller Third Wave had to prepare if numbers permitted; but quite often, only the First Wave was engaged in shooting. In general, most soldiers preferred to be in the Heliborne First Wave and, although the number of operational parachute jumps was truly remarkable, the majority of soldiers were carried into action by helicopter.

The most important factors, apart from the reaction of the enemy and the terrain, in a Fireforce operation were the reliability of intelligence and the skill of the operations commander. The majority of successful engagements were enabled by the skills of the Selous Scouts (many of whom were former enemy); they had the capacity to insert observation posts into the bush without being noticed by the inhabitants. The difficulty of commanding the scene was extreme and good Fireforce commanders were highly prized by the men.

Any advance warning for the enemy of the approaching helicopters, and the anticipated reactions caused by surprise and confusion, were decisive factors in the coming engagement. Wind direction/speed, the presence of a tree covered ridge-line, or a multitude of other factors could make the difference between life or death. If the enemy was trapped in adverse terrain, such as a simple village surrounded by open ground, normally no-one escaped unless it was near nightfall.

Other actions
In addition to Fireforce, the four Commandos were often used as special forces in patrolling actions, mostly inside Rhodesia, but sometimes inside Zambia and Mozambique. During these operations troops were required to carry well over 100 lb of equipment for five to ten days on patrol. Upon their return to base for re-supply, they were often required to turnaround and patrol again in short order.

Attacks were also carried out on enemy camps within Zambia (in the case of ZIPRA) and Mozambique (against ZANLA); these attacks usually involved two or more Commandos. The Rhodesian Special Air Service, used almost exclusively for external operations, often accompanied the Rhodesian Light Infantry on these operations, as did the Selous Scouts.

Patrols
Most of the Rhodesian Light Infantry's patrol operations took place in Rhodesia, though some patrols occurred in Zambia and Mozambique. Patrolling bush trips were unpopular with the troops due to the arduous nature of the duty and the comparative lack of action to Fireforce operations. A Commando could be more exhausted from a patrolling bush trip than the most intense Fireforce period, even if the unit saw more combat in the latter.

However the nature of patrolling work greatly expanded the minds of the troops. Patrols varied from travelling by day and setting up ambushes at night, to observation post work, where a position was occupied to observe the locality. Extreme precautions were made to be clandestine on these observation posts, though it was suspected that the locals were often aware of the Observation Post's presence.

Regardless the type of patrol, a night march would normally be made to the area. Conditions could make this task most difficult, especially when it was so dark that the troopies were completely blind. Scarcity of water could present an issue to the patrol. The civilians were not regarded as hostiles by the troops. There were numerous occasions when they helped each other and process of great empathy took place. If a patrol learned of enemy presence the patrol force immediately moved to engage the enemy. On occasions the patrols were ambushed. Patrols in Mozambique were considered the most hazardous, due to the violent reaction of FRELIMO (also known as FPML).

Externals
The RLI carried out external assaults on guerrilla bases in Zambia (against ZIPRA) and Mozambique (against ZANLA); there were many of these, and also one in Botswana. The larger raids combined Fireforce teams and were similarly executed, save for the greater scale of planning and logistics. There were also several raids by individual Commandos where the presence of FRELIMO units led to greater resistance. Just like in a regular Fireforce operation, the element of surprise was most important.

Canberra and Hunter jets would bomb the target just before the Commandos arrived; and outcomes could be out of all reason, from total "lemons" to the most successful days in the Battalion's history. For example, when three Commandos of the Battalion participated in an attack on ZIPRA camps in Zambia in October 1978, there were no enemy casualties.

November 1977's Operation Dingo, a joint attack by the RLI and Rhodesian SAS on ZANLA camps in Mozambique at Chimoio and Tembue, is retrospectively described by Squadron Leader P. J. H. Petter-Bowyer as an "astounding success". "Operation Dingo cost ZANLA in excess of 3,000 trained men and something in the order of 5,000 wounded, many too seriously to be of further use," he writes. "Others lost all interest in the fighting and deserted." From the Rhodesian side, six men were wounded and two were killed.

The stop of four was used in these raids (though they were organised into larger entities). The plans for these raids varied from sudden and fairly simple operations (subject to change on the fly) to highly intricate.

Armaments
Riflemen were equipped with a 7.62×51mm NATO battle rifle, preferring the Belgian FN FAL or its variants: the British-made L1A1 Self-Loading Rifle (L1A1 SLR) and the South African R1. The Heckler & Koch G3A3, with its origins in West Germany, was also an option. All RLI members were armed with FN FALs by 1968.

The primary infantry support weapon was the 7.62×51mm belt-fed FN MAG. Soldiers also carried a variety of hand grenades including high-explosive (HE), white-phosphorus (WP), and colored smoke. To prevent accidental ignition of a grenade, the safety levers which upon release activated the fuse of the grenade, were taped down. Soldiers were issued HE and WP rifle grenades as well as anti-tank grenades or rockets. Sometimes "bunker bombs" were carried. Machine-gunners and some riflemen carried sidearms.

The 7.62×51mm round fired by the FAL and the MAG had a significant range advantage compared to the 7.62×39mm round fired by the AK-47, SKS, RPD, and RPK firearms normally carried by the ZANLA and ZIPRA forces. The 7.62×51mm NATO round has been proven effective out to 800 meters, whereas the 7.62×39mm is considered less effective (out to ± 400 meters). This disparity in effectiveness, combined with the higher training standards and experiences of the RLI, would probably be a decisive factor in engagements when the RLI forces could fire upon the enemy from a distance (less dangerous return fire). Still, the RLI favoured being close to the enemy.

Issued webbing was not used much which led to a bewildering array of webbing/packs. Often the stops stayed the night at a Fireforce scene and sometimes patrolled the area the next day, other times these operations led into the night and through the following day. On direct action missions, additional ammunition was issued to all soldiers for their personal weapons as well as for squad weapons such as mortars and machine-guns. Bergens with rations (water, batteries for the squad radio, etc.) were carried on patrols.

Riflemen were required to carry a panga, which could be used to chop down bush to create a landing zone so that helicopters could extract them. Strangely, some riflemen tried not to carry this piece of equipment, while some gunners and stop commanders (also known as stick leaders and whose rank varied from Trooper to Captain) did carry them. Only the Stop Commanders carried mini-flares. These devices were about the size and shape of a large pencil, which were used to signal positions, though never at night, and were popular with the troops. The parachute harnesses were Saviac Mk1s, of U.S. manufacture. They were extremely reliable with a reserve parachute on the chest. The parachutes were overhead static line.

From 1977 onwards the RLI was forbidden to wear shorts on operations, due to the dangerous visibility of the soldiers' white legs. This rule was strictly adhered to, but a rule which required troops to wear ankle-boots when in para-stops was often broken. The number of parachute injuries on ops was insignificant, despite (or perhaps, because of) around half of landings falling into trees. Sometimes they fell onto boulders or buildings or fences or boggy ground. Fields varied from as hard as concrete to soil so dry and diffuse that it swallowed them up. Extremely fast "ground rush" was frequently experienced, due to taking place on the sides or top of great hills.

Confusingly the stops in the Dak were dropped in "sticks", supposedly noted in entries in the parachute log books held by troops – which were filled in by themselves – as other data pertinent to the jump. This resulted in the log books often being filled with false data. The port side of the Dak was much preferable than the starboard. There were many times when exiting from G-cars was extremely dangerous due to not being able to descend close enough (because of trees, etc.). The stick then had to carefully clamber out and hold on to the side-step before jumping from a greater height, all while a mass of leaves and twigs whirled about inside the helicopter causing much more stress for the pilot and his technician. Alouettes were extremely reliable and much more capable of dropping off stops in rough terrain, although they had a tendency to sway a little as the troops jumped out, but the Bells had more carrying capacity, range and speed.

Both these vehicles were armed with twin-Browning M1919 machine-guns chambered in .303 British, which were never indiscriminately fired by the tech. The K-car Gunners had to be careful, for there was always a shortage of 20mm rounds and there were many times when troops were only yards away from the target. K-cars with four Browning .303 machine-guns (instead of the 20mm cannon) were not popular with the troops, as they were less effective. The numbers of the enemy killed by the K-car in a scene varied from zero to all (and are included in the estimate for those killed). On some Fireforce operations Hunter jets were used, and more rarely, Vampires.

Up to the second quarter of 1979, troops were required to collect and remove all deceased persons from the scene. This rule was very strictly adhered to, even if it reduced in the short term the effectiveness of the Fireforce (due to the immense effort of it). The plight of the civilians was most profoundly realised by the troops.

Casualties
The Rhodesian Light Infantry Regimental Association maintains a Roll of Honour which lists 85 men killed in action from March 1968 to December 1979. A further 15 are listed as having died on operations from September 1961 to December 1979. Another 34 are listed as deceased from other causes, from 1961 to December 1979.

Of the 85 killed in action, 66 occurred in the last four years of the war, thirty-one in 1979 alone. These figures mirror fairly accurately the ratio of combat the Battalion was in. The number of wounded is not known. It is known that in one of the Commandos there were more than 50 wounded in action in a two-year period where it had 21 killed in action. There were of course many other casualties, from accidents and illness/disease, or bad landings on jumps. These figures are very low for a battalion that was involved in so much combat, though it must be remembered that the Commandos were both smaller than the companies of the average strength infantry battalion of modern warfare and fighting with modern weapons and tactics against a relatively untrained, though well equipped, foe.

United States Army Lt-Col Dave Grossman wrote: "Rhodesia's army during the 1970s was one of the best trained in the world, going up against a very poorly trained but well-equipped insurgent force. The security forces in Rhodesia maintained an overall kill ratio of about eight-to-one in their favour throughout the guerrilla war. And the highly trained Rhodesian Light Infantry achieved kill ratios ranging from 35-to-one to 50-to-one. The Rhodesians achieved this in an environment where they did not have close air and artillery support ... nor did they have any significant advantage over their Soviet-supported opponents. The only thing they had going for them was their superior training, and the advantage this gave them added up to nothing less than total tactical superiority."

Disbandment

Following the creation and independence of the Republic of Zimbabwe (April 1980), the ultimate military parade of the RLI, for the ceremonial laying-up of its regimental colours, took place at Cranborne Barracks on 17 October 1980. The unit's last commanding officer, J. C. W. Aust, recalled being "amazed" by the large crowd of allegiant spectators surrounding the parade square, including the former government minister P. K. van der Byl who attended unannounced. A Rhodesian Air Force Alouette III helicopter unexpectedly arrived overhead, during the final ceremony, in Aust's words "...circling, in a moving salute and farewell". Two weeks later, the Rhodesian Light Infantry was disbanded – on 31 October 1980. A nucleus of RLI officers and other personnel (instructors) became involved in training and helping to form the First Zimbabwe Commando Battalion of the Zimbabwe National Army.

Legacy
The RLI regimental statue, "The Trooper" (or "The Troopie") left Zimbabwe on 28 July 1980 on a South African Air Force C-130 Hercules, together with the regiment's documents/records, trophies and other paraphernalia. By arrangement, everything was put into storage at the South African National Museum of Military History in Johannesburg and later moved to the British Empire and Commonwealth Museum in Bristol, England. "The Trooper" statue now stands in the grounds of Hatfield House, country seat of the Marquess of Salisbury, where it was re-dedicated on 28 September 2008. A copy of the statue remains on display in Johannesburg.

Many RLI veterans wrote memoirs about their service after the Bush War. Rhodesian veterans' memoirs from across the entire army express varied views of the RLI, with some arguing that it was among the best units of the security forces, while others expressed that its members were incompetent and frequently abused drugs.

title: Rhodesian Light Infantry


text:
Vatoa

Vatoa (pronounced ) (known as Turtle Island after Cook's visit) is an outlier of Fiji's Lau Group.

History
Vatoa was the only island of present-day Fiji visited by James Cook. The island was sighted on 2 July 1774. The next day, a Sunday, the Master and some of Cook's crew went ashore: "'...thinking to speak with the people not more than 20 in number who were Arm'd with Clubs and Spears, but the moment he set foot on Shore they retired, he left ashore some Medals, Nails and a Knife ..... Near the Reef were seen several Turtle which occasioned my giving that name to the Isle.'" Cook's chart shows the name Turtle Isle.

Geography
Vatoa has varied rainfall and is usually cool because of trade winds.

The island has an area of 4.45 km2 and rises to more than 50 m above sea level. It is composed wholly of limestone (Koroqara Limestone, Tokalau Limestone Group), probably Late Miocene in age. A single village has a population around 300. Interesting old fortifications occupy the highest part of the island.

Government
Viliame Naupoto, a noted son of Vatoa, is currently Commander of the Republic of Fiji Military Forces. He once served as Director of Immigration and Deputy Commander of the Republic of Fiji Navy.

Shipwrecks of Vatoa and associated reef Vuata Vatoa
Vatoa and its associated reef, Vuata Vatoa, have a surprising number of shipwrecks, given the closest island to the north is 85 km and to the south is 105 km, but Vatoa with an elevation of only 50 m can easily be missed. Some of the wrecks are listed below:

The schooner, Lyman D. Foster, bound for Suva carrying timber, was dismasted in a hurricane, off Vatoa in April 1913.
 * 1825: Oeno, Whale ship, Vuata Vatoa
 * 1840: Shylock, Whaler, Vuata Vatoa
 * 1942: SS Thomas A. Edison, Cargo ship, Vuata Vatoa
 * 1943: USS Grebe, Minesweeper, Vuata Vatoa
 * 1962: Ragna Ringdal, Cargo ship, Vatoa

title: Vatoa


text:
Siriometer

The siriometer is an obsolete astronomical unit of length, defined to be equal to one million astronomical units (au). One siriometer is approximately 1e6 au. The distance from Earth to the star Sirius is then approximately 0.54 siriometers.

The unit was proposed in 1911 by Carl V. L. Charlier, who worked on stellar statistics. Charlier originally used the symbol 'sir' but the symbol 'Sm' has also seen use.

The siriometer never gained widespread usage. Frank Dyson (the Astronomer Royal) objected to the name siriometer, because "it suggests a machine for measuring". The first General Assembly of the International Astronomical Union in 1922 adopted the parsec as the standard unit of stellar distances, which simplified the definition of absolute magnitude. Use of the siriometer seems to have disappeared from the astronomical literature by c. 1930. Modern professional astronomers use the parsec as their primary unit for distances larger than the Solar System.

title: Siriometer


text:
1996 in birding and ornithology

 *  See also 1995 in birding and ornithology, main events of 1996 and 1997 in birding and ornithology

Worldwide

 * 41 Northern bald ibises, a fifth of the known world population, die in Morocco of unknown causes.

New species

 * See also Bird species new to science described in the 1990s

 * The cryptic warbler (Cryptosylvicola randrianasoloi) from Madagascar is first described.

Taxonomic developments
To be completed

Deaths

 * 21 May - Bobby Tulloch (born 1929)

Breeding birds

 * The only breeding pair of golden eagles in England hatch a chick for the first time in three years at Haweswater.
 * 580 singing male corncrakes are counted, up from 537 in 1995.
 * The first inland breeding of avocets in modern times takes place at a site in London. However breeding success at coastal colonies in East Anglia is poor.
 * A pair of hoopoes successfully breed in Mid Wales.

Migrant and wintering birds

 * Thousands of waxwings are seen across Britain in the first few months of the year.
 * Large numbers of little stints and curlew sandpipers pass through during the autumn.

Rare birds

 * A second-calendar year south polar skua (Stercorarius maccormicki) was at West Bexington, Dorset from 27 January to 4 February 1996. The species nests on the Antarctic continent, and during the non-breeding season covers large distances, including as far as the northern oceans. It was added to the British list in August 2021.
 * A redhead in Nottinghamshire in March is Britain's first
 * An American coot at Stodmarsh, Kent in April is Britain's first
 * An indigo bunting on Ramsey Island, Pembrokeshire in October is Britain's first
 * A cedar waxwing in Nottingham in February is Britain's second, but the first to be seen by large numbers of observers
 * A great knot on Teesside in October is Britain's second, but the first to be seen by large numbers of observers
 * A Caspian plover in Shetland in June is Britain's fourth
 * A calandra lark on the Isles of Scilly in April is Britain's fifth
 * During October, the Isles of Scilly also hosted two black-and-white warblers and Britain's sixth buff-bellied pipit
 * A Spanish sparrow arrives in Cumbria in July to begin a year-long stay; few observers had seen this species in Britain previously
 * The influx of Arctic redpolls of the race exilipes which began in late 1995 continued, and became the largest recorded invasion of this species into the country

Other events

 * Thousands of seabirds are killed by an oil spill when the Sea Empress oil tanker runs aground in Pembrokeshire in February.
 * A trial cull of ruddy ducks takes place in the Midlands.
 * At Rutland Water a project to reintroduce ospreys begins.
 * The British Birdwatching Fair the Vietnamese pheasant as its theme.

France

 * Europe's first great blue heron on Ile d'Ouessant, Finistère in April.

Ireland

 * A long-toed stint at Ballycotton, County Cork in June is the first for Ireland.

Scandinavia
To be completed

North America
To be completed

Asia

 * Four Siberian white cranes arrive at Bharatpur in India, the first records of this highly endangered species there since the 1992/1993 winter.

title: 1996 in birding and ornithology


text:
Talk:Musclebear

Articles for Deletion debate
This article was redirected to Bear community as a result of an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Splash talk 21:49, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Musclebear


text: User talk:84.4.214.211

title: User talk:84.4.214.211


text:
Talk:Core War

GFDL
My contributions to this article may have included GFDL-licensed content from The Core War FAQ by Anton Marsden. I am not the copyright holder of such content, and therefore cannot license it under terms other than those of the GFDL. I release the rest of my contributions to this article to the public domain, however, as stated on my my user page.

(I honestly don't remember if I actually used any verbatim content from the FAQ or not. I feel this disclaimer is in order regardless.  By the way, isn't there some standard template for this?) —Ilmari Karonen 14:41, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Keep User: refs out of article
The Beginner's Guide to Redcode by Ilmari Karonen provides an introduction to Redcode for programmers and nonprogrammers alike.

should not point to User: stuff.

Fplay 01:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, you're absolutely correct. Back when I added the link, I didn't know that yet.  Thanks for spotting it.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 01:29, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Date of initial SciAm article
William R. Buckley recently changed the date of Dewdney's first SciAm article on Core War from May to March 1984. I got the May 1984 date from the Core War FAQ, so if the change is correct, we should probably let Anton know so he can change the FAQ. I'll try to verify this at the local library as soon as possible. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 09:59, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Ummm... that link you've given (which I believe to be the master copy) says March, as does the most recent copy posted to r.g.cw. With respect to the original edit summary, I'll give pointers to Assume Good Faith and No Personal Attacks for reasons which I think are obvious :-( Cheers --Pak21 10:45, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think I see the problem: the FAQ gives March 1984 as the publication date of the Core War Guidelines, but May as the date of the first SciAm article. It seems A Brief History of Corewar agrees with this.  My impression (please correct me if I'm wrong), from reading the May 1984 article, is that the Guidelines enjoyed only limited circulation prior to the publication of the SciAm article, and so May 1984 can be considered the date when Core War was introduced to the public.  In any case, I suppose the paragraph ought to be reworded for clarity.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 12:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

 * References to the first article being published in the May 1984 Scientific American include Dewdney's CV, Dewdney's third article and Dewdney's original Core War Guidelines. Once I've looked into this, I will correct A Brief History of Corewar if necessary.

 * Thanks, and no hard feelings. Nice to see this issue settled. (Bzzzzzz.....)  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 13:19, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Instruction Set Descriptions.
It has been a very long time since I worked with Core War, so the material I've added is a bit halting. My notes are now buried in storage, so it will take me some time to get to updates. William R. Buckley 19:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

However, the complaint of Dbabbitt though sophomoric, does point up some deficiency in the article. The instruction sets should be fully described in the article. William R. Buckley 19:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

One point not made in the article is the first standard; ICWS 86. For instance, MICE is written to ICWS 86, not ICWS 88. William R. Buckley 19:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Dang.  Relative addressing ONLY?   I'd have thought that at least 2 memory addresses could be absolute, with a very large memory range between them, say, 256 bits worth of addressing between them.   Two absolute memory addresses could be distinguished by a single bit, for that matter.    But relative addressing is exactly what made modern microprocessors miserable to program.   Anyway, the main page of this article could be improved by discussing or pointing to descendants of Core War.  And for what it's worth, yes, a table of instructions would make the main page a lot more readable.   Dexter Nextnumber (talk) 22:27, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Historical Records
For editors having interest in such things, please know that I have in my possession all of the mail received by the ICWS during the years of my tenure as director. This means that material of historical value is available. William R. Buckley 18:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Is there a record of who has participated in Core War tournaments, and who has won or lost?  The main page of this article could be improved with a link to a list of tournament outcomes, and how long it took for the results to be realized.   216.99.198.33 (talk) 02:50, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Regarding Source Materials
The ICWS and AMRAN published The Core War Newsletter. This publication has been followed by many other web-based news reporting mechanisms, many of which remain available via web browsing. It is therefore disingenuous for others to complain about lacking citations, instead of providing same. William R. Buckley (talk) 14:32, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Creeper/Reaper
I do not agree that Core War is founded upon the Creeper/Reaper programs of Shoch and Hupp. Clearly, I was aware of the Early Experience with Worms from CACM, having been a subscriber at the time. I was also aware of the paper by Vyssotsky et al., when I read the SciAm article in May of 1985. For anybody who has read both papers, Darwin is clearly the origin of Core War. William R. Buckley (talk) 23:53, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

N to the nth participants
The main page of this article could be improved with observations as to what happens in a playing field that is very crowded with participants. In my opinion, crowded means 1 cell open after loading the entire available array with participants, say, 256 participants or more. I would guess that there would be a magnificent shakeout during the first few turns, followed either by an unusual oscillating pattern, or a general annihilation till one participant alone remains.

Have there been any Core War tournaments? Which programmer or team has won the most tournaments? Dexter Nextnumber (talk) 22:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Merge from Redcode
Since Redcode has no other use than to play Core War, I suggest that article be merged into this one. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Two examples showing Redcode used for something other than Core War: Forth Interpreter in Redcode Happy Numbers in Redcode 87.115.83.45 (talk) 21:57, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

 * These are amazing and heartening applications of the Redcode language. Well done, indeed!  William R. Buckley (talk) 16:25, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Since Redcode has no significant uses other than to play Core War, I still think that article should be merged into this one. Yeah, it's a Turing-complete langauge and can solve any problem..but why would you want to? --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:31, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Not very interactive, is it? --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:36, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * At least two dialects of Redcode include I/O. Redcode is used in some schools / colleges to teach assembly programming. The Redcode and Core War articles should not be merged. 87.115.83.45 (talk) 22:05, 18 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia has a disambiguation page for Redcode, and it currently redirects back to Core War.  If there are really two dialects for this language, and at least one of them has support for I/O, however limited, then the disambiguation page should be fixed with a direct to a page on Redcode.   As it stands now, the disambiguation page is doing a disservice to people wanting to learn more about it.   Somebody should go there and fix it.   216.99.198.33 (talk) 02:56, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You're somebody. If there's more than a line or two that can be referenced about using Redcode for other than Core War, then write it up! --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:06, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Softwar
I had heard mention to this kind of "games" as Softwar (with no final e). Anyone can vote for that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.241.45.151 (talk) 22:46, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Core War


text: User talk:148.243.201.29

title: User talk:148.243.201.29


text:
Talk:Western Australian English

early comment
I say "bee-ar" for beer and I'm South Australian. I also think that useage of "crosswalk" might have something to do with the pedestrian lights in all directions at intersections all going off at the same time and allowing pedestrians to cross the road diagonally. What I can gather, it is a WA phenomenon (I first saw it in Perth) and it is only now starting to be picked up in other states - Frances 7/10/05

WA Only Schoolyard?
At my (WA) primary school, some words with a short 'e' vowel were pronounced as though it was an 'a'. Eg. the thing that was rung to get us back into class was a bell, pronounced to rhyme with "shall". This seems very persistent - I've noticed it among nieces and nephews in their primary years. Anyone know this from other places? Callophylla 11:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I have to say, as a born-and-bred Sandgroper, that I've never noticed in WA. But I also hadn't noticed the "beer/bir/bee-ah" thing until it was mentioned here, so who knows? To avoid people people putting all kinds of whimsical stuff here, we really seen an academic-type reference.Grant65 | Talk 01:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Fair comment, Grant65, but (1) this is the discussion page, not the article, so we can surely explore possible items for the article. And (2) we are searching for distinctive WA speech usages; any academic-type work will depend totally on information from "native speakers" such as ourselves. Schoolyard English is distinctive in many places, and this one might just be part of distinctive WA speech. Callophylla 12:50, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

WA Only?
I do wonder as to if some of those words are really only in WA. As I'm a NZer (never been to WA, or even oz!) and lots of those words are familiar to me & I recognise them straight away as I would use them. For instance verge, bathers, & munted etc.... Mathmo Talk 14:13, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the NZer above, I grew up in NSW and have never been to WA. I heard verge (probably more used by women) and bathers used in the '70's, while middy has been the name of a 10 oz glass of beer in NSW for as long as I've been alive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.18.90.151 (talk) 15:21, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Dent and Dint
We (WA) use "dent" as short for indentation;l people in the east say "dint" and even sometimes spell it with the i. Why is this most common difference between the western variant not mentioned here? I'd add it if I could find a source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.112.32.222 (talk) 14:55, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Reference for l-vocalisation?
No reference is given and in my experience it isn't prominent in WA English. It isn't mentioned in Australian English. 130.60.71.123 (talk) 14:19, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Munted?
I've removed this:
 * "...or munted, referring to an object which is misshaped or unsightly"

because the Oxford Dictionary says the word is used similarly in New Zealand. --Meticulo (talk) 10:36, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Coogee pronunciation
I've been naughty and added yet more original research. Does anyone have access to the ABC publication A guide to the pronunciation of Australian place names to substantiate my claim about the different pronunciations of 'Coogee' in Sydney and Perth? Thanks -- Meticulo (talk) 10:36, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Glendalough pronunciation
I remember a news report when the Joondalup line opened about the train announcements pronouncing it as Glenda(lock) versus Glenda(low) -- Mtearle (talk) 11:57, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Boondy
Sounds a lot like bundle to me. Splićanin (talk) 16:11, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Image request
You have added the image request template to this article but I'm struggling to imagine what sort of an image would be applicable here, given that the article is on a language and not a physical thing. Could you please elaborate as to what kind of image you have in mind to help the Western Australian members here potentially take or produce one? Calistemon (talk) 04:06, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Other articles on English dialects include photographs of sings and other sample texts written in the dialect. Dimadick (talk) 09:38, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Never seen one (that I recognised as such), never even knew there was such a thing as Western Australian English until you added it to the WA picture request category. I will ask some "true" Western Australians for help and see if they can come up with something. Access to the book Words from the West: A Glossary of Western Australian Terms could potentially help. Anyway, thanks for explaining, maybe we can find something that fits. Calistemon (talk) 10:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Western Australian English


text:
D tour 1997 Live at Southampton

d:tour 1997 Live at Southampton, or simply d:tour, is a live album by the English band Delirious?.

History
The album was released in 1998 and was the second live offering from Delirious? after Live & In the Can, which was released a few years prior. It was recorded on a leg of the band's legendary first full UK tour, at the Southampton Guildhall venue. Originally d:tour 1997 Live @ Southampton on first publication, the title was later shortened to d:tour 1997 Live on reprints. It is now known simply as d:tour in fan circles. As with Live and in the Can, special packaging was produced for the album, this time in the form of a cardboard slip case with internal artwork.

The tour featured the songs of the band's first full studio album, King of Fools, several of which are featured here. Other songs on the album include "Come Like You Promise", which was originally found on a long out of print solo album by guitarist Stu G, Have You Heard? It also appeared on Live & In the Can, was later rerecorded as a b-side for the single "It's OK", and now appears on the compilation album Deeper. "Summer of Love" also appears, having only previously been released as a b-side on the DeEPer EP.

Reception
It was released to critical acclaim, "The Phantom Tollbooth", gave the album four out of five stars. Cross Rhythms gave the album a 10/10 grade in a review by renowned Christian music journalist and radio producer Mike Rimmer who said, "This little beaut of an album is a stark, raw, powerful snatch of the heady atmosphere."

Current status
In the modern day, whilst still revered by many fans, d:tour is now difficult to find, after having been out of print for several years. Delirious? have since removed all traces of its existence from its official website, not mentioning it in the discography and not supplying it to sellers. However, it is still mentioned in the slip notes for their 2002 compilation album Deeper. Live footage of the gig is available on the DVD release Archive:D, which contains the video version of the gig, previously released on VHS as A View From The Terraces. The album is now only purchasable from specialist sellers and on public auction websites such as eBay and Amazon Marketplace.

Track listing

 * 1) "Game Over?"
 * 2) "Sanctify" – (Martin Smith)
 * 3) "Come Like You Promise" – (Stuart Garrard)
 * 4) "Promise" – (Smith)
 * 5) "Summer of Love" – (Smith/Garrard)
 * 6) "Hands of Kindness" – (Smith)
 * 7) "King or Cripple" – (Smith)
 * 8) "I'm Not Ashamed" – (Smith)
 * 9) "King of Fools" – (Smith)
 * 10) "Obsession" – (Smith)
 * 11) "History Maker" – (Smith)
 * 12) "All the Way" – (Smith)
 * 13) "Deeper" – (Smith)

Personnel

 * Martin Smith – vocals, guitar
 * Stuart "Stu G" Garrard – lead guitar, backing vocals
 * Stewart Smith – drums, percussion, backing vocals
 * Jon Thatcher – bass, keyboard, upright bass, theremin
 * Tim Jupp – piano, keyboards

title: D tour 1997 Live at Southampton


text:
Category:Merchant ships of the United Kingdom

Merchant ships of the United Kingdom include merchant ships built, designed, or operated in or by the United Kingdom.


text:
Massillon Washington High School

Washington High School, commonly referred to as Massillon High School or Massillon Washington High School, is a 9th to 12th grade secondary school within the Massillon City School District in the city of Massillon, Ohio.

The school colors are orange and black, and the school's athletic teams are known as the Massillon Tigers.

History
The original Washington High School was constructed in 1913 and used to sit on the corner of Oak and 1st street southeast in downtown Massillon. The current Washington High School was constructed in 1992 adjacent to Paul Brown Tiger Stadium.

Academics
Washington High School provides programs including college readiness and vocational technical careers. Developing Resources for Education and Athletics in Massillon (D.R.E.A.M) is a collaborative effort through the Paul & Carol David Foundation, Massillon schools, Walsh University and the Aultman Health Foundation and provides students interested in a career in sports medicine to earn college credits in high school. Rated an "Excellent" school district by the Ohio Department of Education.

Football
Football came to the Massillon in 1894 with the first high school football game between Massillon High School and Canton Central High School. In the early years, the players consisted of working boys because most boys did not attend high school. By 1904 more boys began attending school past 8th grade. 1909 was Massillon's first undefeated football team. From 1910 to 1920 high school football in Massillon grew and improved, and by 1916 they were named the Scholastic Champions of Ohio. The school mascot, the Tiger, was adopted from the city's former professional football team known as the Massillon Tigers.

Paul Brown, a 1925 graduate of Washington High School, returned to Massillon in 1932 to begin his renowned coaching career. In his nine years at Massillon, Brown posted an 80–8–2 record which included a 35-game winning streak and six state championships. The school's football stadium was named in Brown's honor.

The Tigers play their home games at Paul Brown Tiger Stadium. The stadium currently holds 16,600 people and is named after former Tiger player and head coach Paul Brown. Besides being the regular season home of the Massillon Tiger Football team, the stadium hosts Ohio High School Athletic Association state football playoff games, divisional championship games, as well as numerous other activities such as band shows and other sports including soccer.

Every fall, the booster club provides a live tiger cub named "Obie" who is on the sidelines for each home football game. So strong is the tradition and history, the booster club provides each baby boy born in Massillon a miniature football.

In summer 2008, due to the success of the Tigers' athletic programs, ESPN nominated the city of Massillon as a candidate for Titletown USA. The final results ended with Massillon finishing in the top 4.

Prior to the implementation of the playoff system in 1972, Massillon won 0 State Championships. In 2023, the Tigers ended a 53-year drought winning their 1st -- and the first in OHSAA Playoff era -- defeating Archbishop Hoban by a final score of 7-2. The Tigers had previously been playoff runners-up in 1980, 1982, 2005, 2018, 2019 and 2020.

Massillon has been recognized as the AP High School Football National Champions nine times - 1935, 1936, 1939, 1940, 1950, 1952, 1953, 1959, 1961.

Rivals
McKinley Bulldogs The rivalry between these schools has been ongoing for over a century. Massillon leads the series 76-53-5. Rivalry is known as one of the first rivalries in high school football history. The rivalry between them is one of the most popular rivalries in the country and the state of Ohio. One of the most notable people part of the rivalry is former Massillon alumni and Cleveland Browns coach Paul Brown.

Massillon Tiger Swing Band
The Massillon Tiger Swing Band was created by George "Red" Bird in 1938 during the Paul Brown era of Massillon football. The band became known as "The Greatest Show in High School Football" and is still a very important part of the Massillon football tradition. The band's swing style includes moving formations and musicians marching with a swing step. The Tiger Swing band begins every home football game with the traditional hometown songs of "Massillon Will Shine", "Stand Up and Cheer" (to acknowledge the other team), “Eye of the Tiger”, “Seven Nation Army”, The W.H.S. Alma Mater, and The Star Spangled Banner/ The National Anthem. At the beginning of each half time show, they perform what is known as "Opening Routine". This is a tradition that goes back for decades and consists of the band's entrance ("Turn Arounds") followed by "Fanfare", "Tiger Rag" and "Carry On". This entire routine is marched at 180 beats per minute and is practiced from the beginning of the rehearsals through the entire season. Each home game the Swing Band performs a new halftime show for the crowd, always with a theme. The 2020 edition of the band includes two Drum Majors, four Majorettes, and the mascot, Obie.

The Swing Band is currently directed by Jason Neel, who has been the head director since 2005. The 2020 edition of the Massillon Tiger Swing Band had an enrollment of 135.

Notable alumni

 * Andy Alleman, former Kansas City Chiefs player
 * Robert Arter (class of 1946), U.S. Army lieutenant general
 * Paul Brown, former National Football League coach and executive. Co-founder of the Cincinnati Bengals and Cleveland Browns
 * Earle Bruce, former college football coach
 * David Canary, television actor
 * Zion Clark (class of 2016), amateur wrestler, MMA fighter, and wheelchair racer
 * Gareon Conley, former cornerback for the Houston Texans and Oakland Raiders
 * Shawn Crable, former linebacker for the New England Patriots
 * Bill Edwards, former college and Detroit Lions head coach
 * Homer Floyd, former halfback for the Edmonton Eskimos
 * Dennis Franklin, former wide receiver for the Detroit Lions and first African American starting quarterback for the Michigan Wolverines
 * Horace Gillom, former punter and offensive end for the Cleveland Browns
 * Tommy Hannon, former safety for the Minnesota Vikings
 * Lin Houston, former guard for the Cleveland Browns
 * Don James, former coach of Kent State
 * Tommy James, former defensive halfback for the Cleveland Browns
 * Mark Kozelek (class of 1984), lead singer of Red House Painters and Sun Kil Moon; actor
 * Lori Lightfoot (class of 1980), attorney, 56th Mayor of Chicago, and former president of Chicago Police Board
 * Ed Molinski, 1939 Consensus All-American guard for Tennessee Volunteers
 * Jack Oliver, geophysicist who studied earthquakes and ultimately provided seismic evidence supporting plate tectonics
 * Devin Smith, former wide receiver drafted by the New York Jets
 * Chris Spielman (class of 1984), former player for Detroit Lions, Buffalo Bills and Cleveland Browns
 * Stalley, born Kyle Myricks, musician and rapper
 * Harry Stuhldreher, quarterback, later one of the Four Horsemen of Notre Dame
 * Jeff Timmons (Class of 1991), singer-songwriter/musician, founder/member of 98 Degrees
 * Stanfield Wells, tight end at the Michigan Wolverines
 * Erik White, Quarterback at Bowling Green and 1991 & 1992 Mid-American Conference MVP
 * George Whitfield Jr., former Arena Football League player
 * Alex Wood (Class of 1974), college football and NFL coach
 * Justin Zwick, former Ohio State quarterback

title: Massillon Washington High School


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Punicalagin

Punicalagin (Pyuni-cala-jen) is an ellagitannin, a type of phenolic compound. It is found as alpha and beta isomers in pomegranates (Punica granatum), Terminalia catappa, Terminalia myriocarpa, and in Combretum molle, the velvet bushwillow, a plant species found in South Africa. These three genera are all Myrtales and the last two are both Combretaceae.

Research
Punicalagins are water-soluble and hydrolyze into smaller phenolic compounds, such as ellagic acid. There were no toxic effects in rats on a 6% diet of punicalagins for 37 days. In laboratory research, punicalagins had carbonic anhydrase inhibitor activity.

title: Punicalagin