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Talk:Eastern Romance languages

Duplicate
This article is a duplicate of the Eastern Romance languages article (and it was created in 2008 as a redirect to the mentioned article: ). (Rgvis (talk) 17:17, 3 September 2019 (UTC))
 * Please read the infobox of the two articles. All Balkan Romance languages are Eastern Romance languages, but not all Eastern Romance languages are Balkan Romance languages. I would be grateful if you could read before editing. Borsoka (talk) 17:20, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Interesting - I did not find the sources used for this article to actually reference "Balkan Romance". Can any of you please help, like maybe the person who added those sources? Thank you.Cealicuca (talk) 12:09, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Name an Eastern Romance language that is not Balkan Romance. The Eastern Romance list's "Daco-Romance" (Romanian and Aromanian), Megleno-Romanian, and Istro-Romanian. The same languages are listed here as Balkan Romance. 98.15.154.13 (talk) 18:51, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Should we then redirect this and Balkan Romance languages to Eastern Romance languages? Kwékwlos (talk) 09:49, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi all,
 * Yes, I think we should. Aristeus01 (talk) 07:44, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I mean... Dalmatian is sometimes classified as Eastern Romance but not Balkan Romance, though it doesn't seem particularly frequent, nor enough to justify a split between the Eastern and Balkan Romance pages. Arctic Circle System (talk) 20:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I strongly support this, and also incite someone to WP:BOLDly effectuate the merge already. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 20:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Topic 1

 * User:Node ue wrote: "Eastern Romance and Sardinian share some features, including the mutation of Latin "ngu" to "mb" and "qua" to "ba"/"pa":"

 * So what? That is indeed true, but it's just one sound change and most likely just a coincidence and nothing more. bogdan | Talk 16:51, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Most likely a coincidence? Prove that it is not because a closer relationship? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.251.68.75 (talk • contribs) 13:27 25 December 2005 (UTC).
 * We have two similarities out of hundreds of sound changes. Which theory is easier to accept: that they are just coincidences or that the Romanians and Sardinians, who lived in different corners of the Roman Empire, somehow influenced each other. The Occam's Razor says the former must be true. bogdan 22:39, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know -- out of all descendants of Latin, only two linguistic groups, the Sardinian and the Romanian, manifested those sound changes. Many Sardinian and Romanian words look similar. --Node 06:42, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you defending your past edit or merely commenting? Alexander 007 07:02, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Defending it. I can understand skepticism on your part, but it almost seems as if you're just as anti-Sardinian as you are anti-Russian. --Node 01:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It does not surprise me that you label me anti-Russian (though I am against Russian expansionism and aggresion, not against the nationality or even the current nation), but to call me anti-Sardinian is plain childish as well as defamation. How does it "almost seem" that I am "anti-Sardinian"? Alexander 007 01:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * "Alex doesn't like my edit: WAAAAAAH! Maybe he's anti-Sardinian! Or maybe I don't even really think that, I just want to defame him a bit. Yeah! Didn't he practically accuse me of being anti-German and anti-Romanian?" It seems that Node was having one of those days today; he just vandalised User:Theresa knott's talk page:, Alexander 007 01:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * And thank you for admitting only two linguistic groups. Alexander 007 09:43, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm? --Node 01:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

 * "Hmm?" is what I'm thinking, Node. Dalmatian and Romanian share a number of sound-changes only between them, and similar words (copsa, coapsa, etc.) but the languages are very different. Alexander 007 01:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, what's the Dalmatian treatment of Latin aqua? This question is not addressed at Node (more likely @ Bogdan who has studied Dalmatian a bit) but to whoever has the datum available. Alexander 007 02:26, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, it has a quite peculiar form, I can guess it's from aquae -> acve -> vi: (here's in a sentence:)
 * E la vústra súnta búca da bar la vi dumandúa, col fiél e col acáid ve la intoscúa. (1860)
 * And your holy mouth asks water to drink; with gall and vinegar they poison it.
 * bogdan 09:47, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Most likely it is from aqua. I don't know the etymology or if such a mutation is possible in Dalmatian. At a superficial glance looking at that sentence, Dalmatian looks more like Portuguese rather than like Romanian.Alexander 007 09:57, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

 * The anonymous genius (User:24.251.68.75; edits done by this IP to User:Node ue's talk page indicate to a high degree that this is an IP used by User:Node ue, and Theresa knott has concluded that this is indeed so) should realize that in terms of Wikipedia, the burden is on him to cite references that indicate it is more than just a coincidence. Alexander 007 01:45, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Alex, see WP:AGF. You're assuming I've got some sort of bad intentions here. You could've just asked on my user talkpage if this IP belonged to me (which it does), and I would've told you straight out that it did. This is a violation of AGF... also, your message comes across as a bit brusque, was that your intention? --24.251.68.75 09:32, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Well okay, I apologize Node. You were however rather aggresive yourself in defending your idea. Alexander 007 09:42, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, those are two sound-changes (-ng->-mb; -qua-> -pa-), but I agree that it is not very relevant to mention this. If it is mentioned, it should be made clear that linguists (AFAIK) do not draw any great conclusions from these features, which do appear to be a coincidence. -Alexander 007 05:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

And FWIW, Romanian and Sardinian are part of only a small handful of languages which are not considered "Western Romance". So whether you consider Sardinian to be "Eastern Romance" or "Insular Romance", it would definitely be silly to include it in a group with Portuguese, Spanish, French, Catalan, Italian, Occitan, etc.

And a sample (in this case, Nuorese):

"Fenòmenu linguìsticu de una pessone o pòpulu chi faeddat in sa matessi manera e livellu duas limbas, ponende s'una o s'àtera sena perder informatziones colende dae una limba a s'àtera. B'at bilinguismu cando unu territòriu, in ue sa zente faeddat zai una limba, est assuzetadu e privadu dae sa soverania o colonizadu, e sa zente imparat sa limba de s'istadu dominadore. A su sòlitu, sunt pagas sas pessones chi resessint a manizare sas duas limbas in sa matessi maneras, àmbitos e usos. Su bonu de sa zente nde connoschet una mezus de s'àtera, chi est assuzetada e faeddada petzi in unas cantas ocasiones. In pràtica, una limba, s'esterna, si impreat in sas ocasiones comunicativas artas, e s'interna pro sas ocasiones bassas, familiares. In custu casu, si faeddat de diglossia."

"Linguistic phenomenon of a person or peoples who speak in the same manner and level two languages, putting the one or the other without losing information from one language to the other. Having bilingualism when a territory, in which the people already speak one language, is associated and privated by the sovereignity or colonised, and the people learn the language of the dominating state. [...] In this case, it is called diglossia."

 * Yes, the similarity can be notable, I never denied that and I'm aware of that. I have gone through Sardinian texts before, including the Sardinian Wiki. But I (and, unless I'm mistaken, most linguists) am satisfied to view this as convergent evolution. As I understand, Sardinian is more specifically included as Southern Romance, not Western or Eastern. Wikipedia is about citing references, but for the sake of discussion: I challenge you to find evidence that this is not simply a case of convergent evolution. As you said yourself, Sardinian was insular (thus, isolated, at least from Romanian), so I don't consider a connection to Eastern Romance to be worth considering.
 * Even an argument that the substratum of Eastern Romance and Sardinian was a kindred language is barely worth considering. Even if you suppose the Eastern substratum to be Illyrian, there was no sizable populations of Illyrians or kindred tribes on the island.
 * A more possible theory is that the Roman colonists who went to Sardinia were from the same stock of colonists who formed the basis of Eastern Romance. But I don't know of any proof of that, or even a compelling reason to propose that. Months ago, I searched through the online Sardinian dictionary and found numerous close parallels: Sardinian circuvoglia, circuvolla, chirchiola, circannoeu all meaning "rainbow". Compare Romanian curcubeu, also meaning "rainbow" and furthermore of unclear etymology. These forms don't seem to be common in Romance, but I'm not sure, I haven't really checked. And this is not nearly enough. It's just too unlikely a scenario. Sardinian and Eastern Romance were isolated from each other and the similarities are due to convergent evolution from Latin.Alexander 007 12:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I wonder if Latin "cucurbita", gourd, (in Romanian as "cucurbetă") can be in any way related to "curcubeu". bogdan 14:19, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't think so. I'll detail this in a few minutes. The Romanian and Sardinian words for "rainbow" have something to do with Latin circus, "a ring", etc., but the details are obscure. I am not saying they derive from circus (the Romanian word cerc and the Sardinian words circu and tzircu derive from circus, not curcubeu), but obviously there is a connection. Alexander 007 14:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Curcubeu looks like it is derived from an ancient *Cucurbius. Could it be related to Latin curvare (possibly Vulgar Latin "curbare", hence Old French "corber") ? bogdan 14:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * BTW, there's a Curcubăta Peak in Bihor Mountains, showing another example of cucur -> curcu. bogdan 14:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I still think a connection to cucurbita is unlikely. See the Sardinian words, beginning with circu-, and circu in Sardinian derives from Latin circus. It also makes excellent sense: a rainbow is an arc or ring in the sky. But who knows. I'll study this some more. In Latin there was Cercius as a variant of Circius (a wind in southern Gaul known as "the circulator"), and there was the word curculio (a corn-worm; "a curved creature"), that Perseus says is related to circulus and circus. Perhaps curcubeu derives from some unattested Vulgar Latin form (*curcubeus? *curcubeum?) brought from Italy. Alexander 007 14:32, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * The idea of a link is that, historically if I recall correctly, both colonies (Sardinia and the Balkans) were sort of "abandoned" by the Romans and became rural backwaters almost entirely neglected by the Romans, who had lost interest. I don't know about the Balkan Romance languages situation in this case (I didn't read a lot about their historical development), but I know that Sardinian people are said to have maintained for a very long time a sort of Romance language which tried to imitate "proper" Latin but failed sorely -- Dante Aligheri said that the Sardinians "mimic Latin grammar, just like the monkeys mimic humans". So, while their words sounded Latin enough, they never totally mastered the grammar, and ended up with something just a little bit more complex than most Western Romance languages but certainly not as complex as Classical Latin. Sardinian and Balkan Romance have in common, I think, that they were excluded from many of the changes that effected the Western Romance languages. Speaking of which, I saw some sources which included Italian as Eastern Romance, based on the La Spezia-Rimini line. Is it possible then to argue for a distinction between "Eastern Romance" and "Balkan Romance"? It seems confusing because in terms of the line, Romanian and Italian can indeed be grouped together, but in terms of grammar, they cannot, most likely due to influence on Balkan Romance from the surrounding languages, and perhaps those languages it supplanted.

 * That's interesting, but that's not what linguists would call a real link between Eastern Romance (as understood in this article) and Sardinian. Rather, that proves my point: convergent evolution, due to some similar historical circumstances as the languages evolved from Latin. I see many more differences between Romanian and Sardinian than similarities. If you change the terminal -u's (which at a cursory glance seem to mimic the Romanian definite article, but this is an illusion) in Sardinian to -o's or -a's, for example, Sardinian begins to look more like Italian:

 * Sard (o/u)"Fenomeno linguistico de una pessone o populo chi faeddat in sa mattesi manera e livello duas limbas..."'
 * Ital: "Fenomeno linguistico in qui una persona o un popolo chi parla in la medesima maniera e livello due lingue..."
 * Rom: "Fenomen lingvistic în care o persoană sau un popor care vorbeşte în acelaşi mod şi nivel două limbi..."

 * Close to Romanian? Not really. It totally lacks the Latin-like Romanian grammar. Sardinian and Romanian developed from Latin, but on completely separate lines that happened to converge in some areas. Regarding the La Spezia-Rimini Line, I see no evidence that contradicts the accepted theory that Proto-Romanian developed separately from Italian as well; again the similarities are most likely convergent evolutionary paths from Latin, though possibly with a dash of some other factor at work, which I'll have to look into. Alexander 007 12:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

 * And by the way, Node, if you're so interested in Sardinian, can you take some time out to clean-up Sardinian language? I cleaned up some stuff already. Alexander 007 12:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Node, both Sardinian and Romanian developed from older versions of Vulgar Latin (due to their isolation, they couldn't get the latest version :-), unlike the other Romance languages. But the grammar and vocabulary of Sardinian is far closer to Italian than to Romanian. bogdan 12:48, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Exactamento (is that Spanish? :). Alexander 007 13:08, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't think that is in any language :-) "Exactamente" would be Spanish, "Esattamente" in Italian. bogdan

 * Yes, I remember now :) Alexander 007 13:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, the o/u variation is also found within Italian dialects, probably southern dialects. Cf. Salento, dialectical Salentu. Alexander 007 17:24, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

"The Greeks have proven that the so-called Aromanian is actually a dialect of a mixed composition, containing 60% Latin and 40% Greek words and syntax" - This sounds like a very linguistically naive statement. And who exactly are "the Greeks"? Max 23:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd translate that small bit of text above a bit different in Romanian. I'd make it:

 * Sard (o/u)"Fenomeno linguistico de una pessone o populo chi faeddat in sa mattesi manera e livello duas limbas..."
 * Ital: "Fenomeno linguistico in qui una persona o un popolo chi parla in la medesima maniera e livello due lingue..."
 * Rom: "Fenomen lingvistic in care o persoana sau un popor care vorbeste in aceiasi maniera si (acelasi) nivel doua limbi"

Mirc mirc 16:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Picture caption
In addition to a lot of other problems in this article concerning writing style, I noticed the description or caption on the picture of the Thracian horseman with the Latin inscription says that this form of Latin evolved directly into Aromanian and Megleno-Romanian, while at the same time the rest of the article suggests that proto-Romanian formed north of the Jirecek line, a contradiction. I think the idea that Aromanian formed directly from any supposed Latin spoken in northern Greece (it's dubious whether it was even spoken there during the Empire) is somewhat linguistically simplistic and naive, and seemingly written by someone who doesn't have detailed experience with the study of the language. Sometimes Occam's Razor doesn't always offer the best solution. I noticed many people seem to think the only thing Aromanian and Romanian have in common is that they both came from Latin, as if they were never one language after that, and like they were part of completely different Romanization efforts and periods, which is clearly untrue from a close look at both languages. They just went in different directions, one north and one further south, and received different influences on their shared core (Slavic vs. Greek and other things). Word dewd544 (talk) 20:34, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Some issues
Regarding the classification scheme of Eastern Romance into "North Danubian" (which only has Romanian) and "South Danubian" with all the others... where is this from? I don't see sources for this. It seems like something more based on geography (by virtue of the other 3 languages occurring south of the Danube) than actual in-depth linguistic analysis and history. Aromanian and Megleno-Romanian are fine in that category of course (although Meglenitic, as stated has a few intermediate features)... but Istro-Romanian is quite likely a medieval offshoot of Transylvanian Romanian, with very heavy Slavic influence that gradually eroded its character over time. It's very hard to see it as a natural development straight from the Roman era in Istria; it just wouldn't be so close to Romanian then. Also, languages like Istriot and Dalmatian are examples of the actual continuation of Romance in that region, not Istro-Romanian. So this is misleading in the article.

Secondly, that part toward the end about the "Vlachs of the Balkans" (referring to the ones in the Bulgarian empire) disappearing or becoming entirely "slavized" is inaccurate, as obviously Aromanians and such still exist and are Balkan... You also have Vlachs of various origins in Bulgaria today. Seems to be a statement that's a bit informal and point-of-view like. Word dewd544 (talk) 19:37, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Original research
What is the source of this article? Which book contains information about the Eastern Romance languages? Borsoka (talk) 14:34, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

 * I disagree!
 * Surely the article needs to be improved (as far as I noticed, there are only two sources), but this is not done through such radical actions. Besides, the other similar articles (Western Romance languages, Italo-Dalmatian languages) are edited in similar ways, with too few inline citations.
 * On the other hand, the complete deletion of all information accumulated over time (14 years!) is totally unproductive and violates one of the basic principles of Wikipedia: WP:GF. That's why the Wikipedia policy supports continued improvement of articles, not their deletion. (Rgvis (talk) 09:34, 5 July 2019 (UTC))
 * A template message placed at the top of the article in June 2009 authorized any editors to remove unsourced material . I removed unsourced content and placed two new template messages asking for the verification of the subject of the article on 13 May 2019. The content has not been verified. Feel free to verify the content of the article, but restoring OR is vandalism. Borsoka (talk) 01:07, 6 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Here is a list showing that the term is not well-defined and rarely used: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C39&q=%22Eastern+Romance%22&btnG=. Borsoka (talk) 01:31, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

 * You did not prove anything! Did you do the same whith the Western Romance languages and Italo-Dalmatian languages articles? They are in the same situation. (Rgvis (talk) 13:15, 7 July 2019 (UTC))

 * No, I have not studied them. If you think they cannot be verified either, you should also delete them. Borsoka (talk) 14:19, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Mass deleted content
This article, along with the Western Romance languages and Italo-Dalmatian languages articles, is part of a series of three articles, developed in parallel over the last 14 years (and part of the larger project about the Romance languages). The mode of editing was similar with all sister articles, receiving too few inline citations at this time.

However, only the content of this article was deleted, while the other two were not affected.

Why was this article destroyed? Why was not the content improvement in this article encouraged? Why do editors who have contributed over the past 14 years to this article are not treated in the same way as editors of the other sister articles (as per Assume good faith)?

I am very disappointed that Wikipedia has come to work in such an arbitrary way. Thank you. (Rgvis (talk) 13:40, 7 July 2019 (UTC))

 * I am very disappointed that there are wikipedians who are unable to understand and apply the basic principles of editing, including WP:NOR. Can you refer to reliable sources verifying this article? Please remember, no editor has provided reference to a single reliable source for more than a decade. Instead of making dramatic statements, you should search for reliable sources to verify it. Please feel free to delete the other two articles if you think they purely contain OR. Borsoka (talk) 14:15, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

What is the subject of the article
, please try to read the sources before editing the article and avoid mixing different sources to come to you own conclusion. As I have mentioned several times before, the definition of "Eastern Romance" is not so clear-cut as you are trying to describe. For instance, you refer to Posner who indeed uses this expression twice in her cited work, but not in the context you are trying to use it. (She mentions that Sardinian and Dalmatian are variants of Eastern Romance along with Italian and Romanian.) You mixed her sentence with a sentence verified by other scholars' work. Borsoka (talk) 08:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * , would you please clarify what is the subject of the article based on reliable sources? We are not here to publish the results of our research. If Posner says that Italian and Sardinian are Eastern Romance languages we cannot write that these languages developed in Dacia and Moesia. Borsoka (talk) 12:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Check the other cited sources (maybe "Language Mapping" will help you understand more). (Rgvis (talk) 12:13, 15 July 2019 (UTC))
 * No, it does not help. Could you explain me why do you think Italian and Sardinian developed in Dacia and Moesia? Which reliable source contains this claim? Borsoka (talk) 14:23, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Why do I think WHAT? Have you start reading others' thoughts? (Rgvis (talk) 18:04, 15 July 2019 (UTC))
 * Because you wrote this . Borsoka (talk) 01:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Based on the cited reference (page 61 of ).
 * As for Posner, you have omitted the fact that, regarding the proposed classifications, she points out the following: "The now most widely accepted version of the Romance Stammbaum is that of another American, Robert Hall Jr, who, having split off the isolates (first Proto-Sardinian, then Proto-Eastern Romance) ..."

 * So check pages 24-25 from . (Rgvis (talk) 08:23, 16 July 2019 (UTC))
 * I still do not understand why do you think that all Eastern Romance languages (Italian, Dalmatian, …) developed in Dacia and Moesia? Would you quote scholarly views verifying this strange claim? Borsoka (talk) 08:31, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * You seem confused, no reference has been made to the Italian or Dalmatian languages in the given context. This is probably because you did not check the provided references. (Rgvis (talk) 12:06, 16 July 2019 (UTC))
 * Did you state in the article that "The Eastern Romance languages are a group of Romance languages that developed in Dacia and Moesia from the local variant of Vulgar Latin."? Yes, you did . Did you agree above that Dalmatian and Italian are Eastern Romance languages? Yes, you did. Why do you think that Dalmatian and Italian developed in Moesia and Dacia? If you do not think so, why did you claim it? Furthermore, you have not answered my question: what is the subject of the article. I suggest you should read the following article: . Malkiel states that the term is "controversial" (on page 156). Borsoka (talk) 14:29, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Your assumptions are wrong, I did not say that "Dalmatian and Italian are Eastern Romance languages" (only that some classifications include Dalmatian as part of the Balkan Romance). And, of course that Balkan Romance languages developed in the area (and not only in Dacia and Moesia, but even in Illyria - see ). As for the subject of this article, it was clear from the very beginning, being consistent with the other similar articles in the given classification (yes, in terms of research, the classification is a complex topic, but among all the classification models, the one based on Hall's is the most used). (Rgvis (talk) 08:24, 18 July 2019 (UTC))
 * No, it is not an assumption. It is a fact that I proved above: you claimed that Dacia and Moesia was the homeland of the Eastern Romance languages and also wrote that Italian (and Dalmatian) are included in this group. If you want to write only of the homeland of the Balkan Romance languages, please clarify it in the article in the future. Would you verify that Hall's classification is still widely used? Please remember that I referred above to Malkiel's later article. He clearly says that the term "Eastern Romance languages" is controversial. In recent literature, the term is not widely used, according to my experiences (I can refer even to Posner's work, cited in the article. She only randomly uses this term.) Borsoka (talk) 08:57, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The "Eastern Romance" term is very contemporary: (Ethnologue). (Rgvis (talk) 11:27, 18 July 2019 (UTC))
 * I suggest you should read WP:Source. The Oxford Guide to the Romance Languages (2016) uses the term "Eastern Romance" three times, without defining it . The Cambridge HIstory of the Romance Languages (2013) also refers to "Eastern Romance languages" three times, but without defining the term . The Romance Languages: A Historical Introduction, also published by Cambridge University Press in 2010, does not use the term . The Romance Languages, first published by the Oxford University Press in 1988, does not mention the term . None of these books list the term "Eastern Romance" in their index, showing that it is not a widely used terms by specialists of Romance linguistics. The only major work defining the term is Rebecca Posner's The Romance languages, which was first published by Cambridge University Press in 1996. It defines it based on vocalic criteria in accordance with Hall's proposal. If we take into account Malkiel's above quoted text, we can conclude that the term "Eastern Romance languages" is not regarded important by most of the renowned specialists of Romance linguistics and the term is "controversial". For instance, Malkiel mentions that there are linguists who regard the shared Latin vocabulary of Albanian and Romanian as "Eastern Romanceness". So please, try to answer my simple question based on reliable sources: what is the subject of this article? Borsoka (talk) 14:58, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

 * , how do you think the above issues could be fixed? What is the subject of the article, according to you? Based on what works could we develope the article without ignoring WP:SYNTH and WP:Due? Borsoka (talk)
 * My opinion is that the article respects all Wikipedia standards in all respects and it still has great potential for development. (Rgvis (talk) 16:49, 24 July 2019 (UTC))
 * OK, I see you cannot refer to a single source based on which you could develop the article. Please do not restore unverified parts. Borsoka (talk) 01:18, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 * There are numerous sources already mentioned. (Rgvis (talk) 05:48, 25 July 2019 (UTC))
 * But you have been restoring an unverified text. Furthermore, you have not been able to verify that the subject is notable and you have not been able to refer to a single source which verifies that a full article can be developed on this subject. Borsoka (talk) 06:58, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The subject is notable (in fact, the article has been present for more than 14 years, so far) and the content of the article is supported by numerous references to reliable sources. (Rgvis (talk) 08:55, 25 July 2019 (UTC))
 * , why do you restore unverified random list of words? Borsoka (talk) 09:44, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

"Arbitrary" deletion
Anon, please read the template message which was placed at the top of the article in June 2009. It clearly says that "Unsourced material may be challenged and removed". Why do you think that the deletion of sentences that have not been verified for more than 10 years is arbitrary? Which WP policy allows editors to restore content which was not verified for more than 10 years? Borsoka (talk) 12:33, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Anon, would you please answer my above questions. Unsourced material will be removed as per WP:NOR. The table both in this article and in the article dedicated to Istro-Romanian language contains a random list of words which is not verified by a reliable source. Consequently, the table contradicts WP:Synth. Borsoka (talk) 16:19, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I have restored referenced content. (Rgvis (talk) 16:52, 1 September 2019 (UTC))
 * Which reliable source contains a similar list of words in the context of the article? Can you explain why this list of random words does not contradict WP:SYNTH? Borsoka (talk) 00:55, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The editing is according to WP:EP. Similar lists are common in the articles content dealing with language groups. (Rgvis (talk) 13:04, 2 September 2019 (UTC))
 * , could you quote the relevant text from WP:EP? Borsoka (talk) 00:09, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I initiated a discussion on this issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics. Borsoka (talk) 02:26, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Improper French
The table lists that "vivre" is the French word for "alive", yet it means "to live". The proper word would be "vivant"/"en vie"Ragazzostar (talk) 13:41, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Castelmezzano dialect
The Castelmezzano dialect in Southern Italy has a vovel system similar to Eastern Romance languages but is NOT an Eastern Romance language, in opposition to other Southern Italian dialects ! The categorisation into Eastern Romance languages depends on more than just the vovel system, for example on geographocal division. If the Castelmezzano dialect is included, many other southern Italian must be includest too, maybe all dialects south of a line La Spezia - Rimini. Metron (talk) 20:06, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * We should have a more thourough discussion about it, since the infobox and the main page's content is also relevant., would you tell what you think? Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:21, 15 March 2021 (UTC))
 * I have no knowledge about Italian dialects, so I cannot comment on this issue. Borsoka (talk) 01:56, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Balkan Romance = Daco-Romance
Hi,

I have checked some of the sources mentioned in this article as well as in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_Romance_languages article and none of them support the formula "The Balkan Romance languages, also known as Daco-Romance languages". Some of the sources (like Schulte 2009, p.230) don't even mention "Balkan Romance" at all - which is precisely the source used to support this statement (as well as the identical statement in he Balkan Romance article).Cealicuca (talk) 19:02, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Support removal. Super   Ψ   Dro  21:14, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Does vipt a real word(romanian word for food)?
I just could bot find it in use any where. Not even dictoneries... 2A02:14F:172:E50:0:0:8A48:7124 (talk) 12:59, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Eastern Romance languages


text:
Conway Berners-Lee

Conway Maurice Berners-Lee (19 September 1921 – 1 February 2019) was an English mathematician and computer scientist who worked as a member of the team that developed the Ferranti Mark 1, the world's first commercial stored program electronic computer. He was born in Birmingham in 1921 and was the father of Sir Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the World Wide Web, and Professor Mike Berners-Lee, researcher into climate change.

Early and personal life
Berners-Lee was son of Major Cecil Burford Berners-Lee (1884–1931), of the Royal Field Artillery, and Helen Lane Campbell Gray (1895–1968). His mother was from Winnipeg, Manitoba, daughter of John Sidney Gray, M.D.

Berners-Lee died on 1 February 2019 at the age of 97.

Career
Early in World War II whilst an undergraduate at Trinity College, Cambridge reading mathematics, Berners-Lee volunteered for the armed services, but was instructed to stay on to take parts I and II of the mathematical tripos as a compressed two-year course, because the government needed people trained in mathematics and electronics. In addition, he attended a series of lectures in electronics. After university, he had further training in electronic engineering and soon joined the army in the Corps of Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers (REME). He worked on Gun Laying and Searchlight Radar in England.

After the end of hostilities, Berners-Lee was posted to Egypt where he encountered Maurice Kendall's book The Advanced Theory of Statistics, which greatly impressed him. He then had a chance to join the statistics bureau in the GHQ in Cairo, known as the Number 1 Statistics Unit of the Royal Army Ordnance Corps. He was employed to close down a very large punched card installation involving about five million 65-column punched cards covering all types of vehicle and spares. This meant that they had to say goodbye to 30 women who had been punching the cards. The last job was sorting and listing the 250,000 personnel cards to get all the service people onto ships for home. There was a race with the clerks doing this job by hand—and the clerks won over the machines.

Berners-Lee was demobilised in 1947 with the rank of Major. He then worked on a punched card data processing system for the Plastics Division of Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI). He met his wife Mary Lee Woods at the Ferranti Christmas party in Manchester in 1952. She had been working as a programmer on the Ferranti Mark 1 and Mark 1 Star computers at the Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester since 1951. He joined Ferranti in 1953 working at Ferranti's London Computer Centre. They were married on 10 July 1954 at St Saviour's Church, Hampstead.

The following is an extract from Dominic Wilson's book Organizational Marketing. "In Manchester, nearly half the programmers were women, Conway Berners-Lee, who married one of them, said 'Ferranti hired intelligent girls very cheaply but this gave them a big cultural problem because, prior to that, the company had only employed women as typists or factory hands'. 'Men got more than women', Mary Lee added. 'It was grossly unfair and there was a rebellion. The personnel officer was shocked we'd even discussed our wages.' She was on £400 a year. [Her starting salary was actually £450.]

'The Tin Hut [where the programmers worked] marriage rate was high', her husband said. 'The Robinsons … the Bennetts … the Clarkes … us.' [ ... ] Many of these pioneers had moved on to professorships, or stock options and top executive jobs. They'd been the culmination of a measured progress from military radar work to academia to commerce, and the heroically named 'Pegasus’ computers had made Ferranti a lot of money."

In the 1950s it was not clear how computers could usefully be employed away from the field of mathematics. As well as statistics, Berners-Lee had acquired a knowledge of operations research (OR), and he showed himself to be good at devising worthwhile computer applications. He directed the development of routines for the basic data processing techniques of sorting and updating files. In 1956 he devised an application for planning the production of items from a variety of components, for example, animal feed products. In 1957 he published an article on machine loading. A report that he produced in 1964 listed 31 Ferranti projects that used OR techniques in a wide variety of businesses.

The business computing division of Ferranti was merged with International Computers and Tabulators (ICT) in 1963, and ICT was, in turn, merged with English Electric Leo Marconi (EELM) computers in 1968 to form International Computers Limited (ICL).

In 1960 Berners-Lee had evolved a technique for editing text—including hyphenation—for metal typesetting of printed material. As space in memory and backing store was a scarce and valuable resource in those days, he had also devised a procedure for compressing text, which in 1963 he sent to Bob Bemer at Univac.

In the late 1960s Berners-Lee led the Medical Development Team of ICT and then ICL. He was involved in some of the earliest developments in the applications of computers in medicine, and his text compression ideas were taken up by an early electronic patient record system.

Berners-Lee spent the 1970s developing and using a queuing network model for ICL's 'New Range' of computers (later the ICL 2900 Series) with Dr John Pinkerton who was responsible for optimising the price/performance of the new systems. It was known as FAST – standing for Football Analogy for System Throughput. The work done by each 'player' was derived from a system monitor file containing data for device and concurrency counts. He received much encouragement when Hughes and Moe at Norwegian University of Science and Technology, Trondheim, predicted the effect of increasing the memory on their Univac Installation. The model could also be used to predict throughput on a minute to minute basis – peaks being believed to be due to instability in the operating system. He retired in 1986.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Conway Berners-Lee


text:
User talk:KikeG

A welcome from Sango123
Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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title: User talk:KikeG


text:
Rolland H. Spaulding

Rolland Harty Spaulding (March 15, 1873 – March 14, 1942) was an American manufacturer and Republican politician. He was the 55th governor of New Hampshire from 1915 to 1917.

Early life and education
Rolland Harty Spaulding was the third son of Jonas Spaulding and Emeline Cummings. He was born in 1873 in Townsend Harbor, Massachusetts, where his father and uncle had a fiberboard mill. His father founded a mill at Rochester, New Hampshire and moved his family there. The young Spaulding was educated at Phillips Academy, class of 1893.

Career
With his two older brothers, Rolland Spaulding joined their father in the family business, renamed J. Spaulding and Sons, which ran mills to produce leatherboard (typically produced by pulping and compressing scrap leather and wood pulp). In addition to mills in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, that his father had founded, Rolland and his brothers Leon C. and Huntley N. Spaulding, built one in Tonawanda, New York, which became the largest.

Rolland Spaulding became a prominent businessman, working with his father and brothers in the family industry. Their family-owned company manufactured fiberboard, later adding a type of resin laminate named Spauldite® (to compete with Bakelite) and fiberglass tubing to their product lines.

Spaulding became active in Republican Party state politics. He was elected Governor in 1914, but declined to run for a second term.

Like his brothers and sister Marion, Rolland became a philanthropist. He died the day before his 69th birthday, in Rochester, New Hampshire.

Honors

 * Spaulding Turnpike was named for Rolland and his brother Huntley N. Spaulding. It connects their hometown of Rochester to I-95.

title: Rolland H. Spaulding


text:
User talk:Texasbandit13

A welcome from Sango123
Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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title: User talk:Texasbandit13


text:
User talk:Trinis finest

A welcome from Sango123
Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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title: User talk:Trinis finest


text:
Mary Lee Woods

Mary Lee Berners-Lee (née Woods; 12 March 1924 – 29 November 2017) was an English mathematician and computer scientist who worked in a team that developed programs in the Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester Mark 1, Ferranti Mark 1 and Mark 1 Star computers. She was the mother of Sir Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the World Wide Web, and Mike Berners-Lee, an English researcher and writer on greenhouse gases.

Early life and education
Woods was born on 12 March 1924, in Hall Green, Birmingham to Ida (née Burrows) and Bertie Woods. Both her parents were teachers. She had a brother who served in the Royal Air Force during World War II and was killed in action. She attended Yardley Grammar School in Yardley, Birmingham, where she developed an aptitude for mathematics. From 1942 to 1944, she took a wartime compressed two-year degree course in mathematics at the University of Birmingham. She then worked for the Telecommunications Research Establishment at Malvern until 1946 when she returned to take the third year of her degree. After completing her degree she was offered a fellowship by Richard van der Riet Woolley to work at Mount Stromlo Observatory in Canberra, Australia, from 1947 to 1951 when she joined Ferranti in Manchester as a computer programmer.

Ferranti computer programming group
On joining the UK and electrical engineering and equipment firm, Ferranti, she started working in a group led by John Makepeace Bennett.

She worked on both the Ferranti Mark 1 and the Ferranti Mark 1 Star computers. The programs for these computers were written in machine code, and there was plenty of room for error because every bit had to be right. The machines used serial 40-bit arithmetic (with a double length accumulator), which meant that there were considerable difficulties in scaling the variables in the program to maintain adequate arithmetic precision.

The Ferranti programming team members found it useful to commit the following sequence of characters to memory, which represented the numbers 0–31 in the International Telegraph Alphabet No. 1, which was a 5-bit binary code of the paper tape that was used for input and output:

Another difficulty of programming the Ferranti Mark 1 computers was the two-level storage of the computers. There were eight pages of Williams cathode ray tube (CRT) random access memory as the fast primary store, and 512 pages of the secondary store on a magnetic drum. Each page consisted of thirty-two 40-bit words, which appeared as sixty-four 20-bit lines on the CRTs. The programmer had to control all transfers between electronic and magnetic storage, and the transfers were slow and had to be reduced to a minimum. For programs dealing with large chunks of data, such as matrices, partitioning the data into page-sized chunks could be troublesome.

The Ferranti Mark 1 computer worked in integer arithmetic, and the engineers built the computer to display the lines of data on the CRTs with the most significant bit on the right due to their background in radar. This could be argued as the logically sensible choice, but was changed to the more conventional system of the most significant bit on the left for the Mark 1 Star. The Mark 1 Star worked with both fractions and integers. The Baudot teleprinter code was also abandoned for one that was in the following order:

Program errors for the Ferranti Mark 1 computers were difficult to find. Programmers would sit at the computer control desk and watch the computer perform one instruction at a time in order to see where unintended events occurred. However, computer time became more and more valuable, so Dr Bennett suggested that Woods write a diagnostic program to print out the contents of the accumulator and particular store lines at specific points in the program so that error diagnosis could take place away from the computer. The challenge of her routine, 'Stopandprint', was that it had to monitor the program under diagnosis without interfering with it, and the limited space in the fast store made this difficult. Along with Bennet and Dr D.G. Prinz, Woods was involved in writing interpretive subroutines that were used by the Ferranti group.

Errors with the programs were one problem, but errors caused by the computer were another. The computer frequently misread the binary digits it was given. The engineers thought the mathematicians could compensate for this by programming arithmetic checks, and the mathematicians would too readily assume that a wrong program result was due to a computer error when it was due to a program error. This caused inevitable friction between the mathematicians and the engineers. At the centre of this was a program that Woods had written for inverting a matrix to solve 40 simultaneous equations, which was a large number for the time. The long rows of data required by this calculation took the computer too long to process without an error. For one dispute Woods went to Tom Kilburn, who was second only to Professor Sir Frederic Calland Williams in the engineering department. Kilburn was polite but did not argue, and she felt he was ignoring her complaint. However, 50 years later when she asked him about the exchange, he said that he had not argued "because [he] knew [she was] right."

While at Ferranti, Woods discovered that the women in her department were getting less pay than the men. She presented the case to the personnel department and was able to convince them to grant equal pay and rights for women.

Cottage industry programming
Woods left Ferranti in 1955, when her first child was born. She continued to get involved in smaller programming projects, that she termed "cottage industry programming," so that she could complete jobs from home. Most notably she did some work with the London Transport Executive, to develop a simulation for bus routes that could prevent hold ups and bus bunching. She also developed a program for the RAF at Boscombe Down to track weather balloons and translate their readings. Then she came out of retirement in 1963 to work for a London-based company called K and H. While at K and H she wrote programming manuals until she retired in 1987.

Personal life
In 1954 she married Conway Berners-Lee whom she met while working in the Ferranti team, and together they had four children; Timothy (Tim), Peter, Helen and Michael (Mike). Their eldest son, Sir Tim Berners-Lee is the inventor of the World Wide Web, and their youngest son Mike is an academic.

After a period devoted to bringing up children, she became a schoolteacher of mathematics, and then a programmer using BASIC, Fortran and other languages before retiring in 1987.

She died on 29 November 2017, aged 93.

title: Mary Lee Woods


text:
Namcha Barwa

Namcha Barwa or Namchabarwa (Chinese: 南迦巴瓦峰, Pinyin: Nánjiābāwǎ Fēng) is a mountain peak lying in Tibet in the region of Pemako. The traditional definition of the Himalaya extending from the Indus River to the Brahmaputra would make it the eastern anchor of the entire mountain chain, and it is the highest peak of its own section as well as Earth's easternmost peak over 7600 m. It lies in the Nyingchi Prefecture of Tibet. It is the highest peak in the 180 km long Namcha Barwa Himal range (also called the Namjagbarwa syntaxis or Namjagbarwa Group Complex), which is considered the easternmost syntaxis/section of the Himalaya in southeastern Tibet and northeastern India where the Himalaya are said to end, although high ranges (Hengduan Mountains on the China–Myanmar border) actually continue another 300 km to the east.

Location
Namcha Barwa is in an isolated part of southeastern Tibet rarely visited by outsiders. It stands inside the Great Bend of the Yarlung Tsangpo River as the river enters its notable gorge across the Himalaya, emerging as the Siang and becoming the Brahmaputra. Namcha Barwa's sister peak Gyala Peri at 7294 m rises across the gorge 22 km to the north-north-west (NNW).

Notable features
Namcha rises 5000-6800 m above the Yarlung Tsangpo. After 7795 m Batura Sar in the Karakoram was climbed in 1976, Namcha Barwa became the highest unclimbed independent mountain in the world, until it was finally climbed in 1992.

In addition to being one of the highest mountains in the world, Namcha Barwa is the third most prominent peak in the Himalayas after Mount Everest and Nanga Parbat.

Frank Kingdon-Ward described in the 1920s "a quaint prophecy among the Kongbo Tibetans that Namche Barwa will one day fall into the Tsangpo gorge and block the river, which will then turn aside and flow over the Doshong La [pass]. This is recorded in a book by some fabulous person whose image may be seen in the little gompa [Buddhist monastery] at Payi, in Pome."(126-7) (See Beyul for the reason behind the prophecy and Padmasambhava or another Tertön for the "fabulous person whose image may be seen in the little gompa").

Climbing history
Namcha Barwa was located in 1912 by British surveyors but the area remained virtually unvisited until Chinese alpinists began attempting the peak in the 1980s. Although they scouted multiple routes, they did not reach the summit. In 1990 a Chinese-Japanese expedition reconnoitered the peak. Another joint expedition reached 7460 m in 1991 but lost member Hiroshi Onishi in an avalanche. The next year a third Chinese-Japanese expedition established six camps on the South Ridge over intermediate Nai Peng (7043 m), reaching the summit on October 30. Eleven climbers reached the summit. U.K. Alpine Club's Himalayan Index lists no further ascents.

title: Namcha Barwa


text:
Neocogniauxia

Neocogniauxia is a genus of orchids, (family Orchidaceae), consisting of two species in the Greater Antilles. The genus is named for botanist Alfred Cogniaux.

title: Neocogniauxia


text:
User talk:Asdfge

A welcome from Sango123
Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay. We're glad to have you in our community! Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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title: User talk:Asdfge


text: Category:South Korean voice actors

title: Category:South Korean voice actors


text:
Global Atmosphere Watch

The Global Atmosphere Watch (GAW) is a worldwide system established by the World Meteorological Organization – a United Nations agency – to monitor trends in the Earth's atmosphere. It arose out of concerns for the state of the atmosphere in the 1960s.

Mission
The Global Atmosphere Watch's mission is quite straightforward, consisting of three concise points:
 * 1) To make reliable, comprehensive observations of the chemical composition and selected physical characteristics of the atmosphere on global and regional scales;
 * 2) To provide the scientific community with the means to predict future atmospheric states;
 * 3) To organize assessments in support of formulating environmental policy.

Goals
The GAW program is guided by 8 strategic goals: Moreover, the programme seeks not only to understand changes in the Earth's atmosphere, but also to forecast them, and perhaps control the human activities that cause them.
 * To improve the measurements programme for better geographical and temporal coverage and for near real-time monitoring capability;
 * To complete the quality assurance/quality control system;
 * To improve availability of data and promote their use;
 * To improve communication and cooperation between all GAW components and with the scientific community;
 * To identify and clarify changing roles of GAW components;
 * To maintain present and solicit new support and collaborations for the GAW programme;
 * To intensify capacity-building in developing countries;
 * To enhance the capabilities of National Meteorological and Hydrological Services in providing urban environmental air quality services.

Genesis
The original reason for testing the atmosphere for trace chemicals was mere scientific interest, but of course, many scientists eventually wondered what effects these trace chemicals could have on the atmosphere, and on life.

The GAW's genesis began as far back as the 1950s when the World Meteorological Organization began a programme of monitoring the atmosphere for trace chemicals, and also researching air pollution from a meteorological point of view. They were also responsible for monitoring ozone, establishing the Global Ozone Observing System (GO3OS) in 1957, in the International Geophysical Year.

In 1968, the United Nations called for an international conference to address world environmental problems caused by rapid industrialization. At about this time, the World Meteorological Organization set up another environmental research body, the Background Air Pollution Monitoring Network. The conference was held in Stockholm in 1972, and addressed several environmental concerns, namely:

 * The threat posed to the atmosphere by chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs);
 * Acidification of lakes and forests in North America and Europe due to acid rain;
 * Global warming caused by build-up of greenhouse gases.

Indeed, it was the World Meteorological Organization's readings and observations that figured prominently at this conference. They had little good news to offer.

The GAW itself was eventually created in 1989 by combining the GO3OS and the Background Air Pollution Monitoring Network. The GAW consists of a worldwide system of observing stations and supporting facilities providing data for atmospheric assessments, and also serving as an early warning system for chemical or physical changes in the Earth's atmosphere which could be cause for environmental concern. Such changes might involve a change in ozone, and therefore ultraviolet, levels, levels of greenhouse gases, or precipitation chemistry, the culprit in the world's acid rain woes.

Organization
The GAW consists of a coordinated system of various components, prominent among which are:

 * measurement stations;
 * calibration and data quality centres;
 * data centres;
 * external scientific groups.

Measurement stations
More than 65 countries currently host and operate the GAW's global or regional measurement stations. There are also "contributing stations" that furnish additional data. Lately, satellite programmes have also become important to the GAW, providing atmospheric data that complement ground measurements.

Calibration and data quality centres
These have the job of ensuring that all data produced by the system measure up to international standards. This is achieved by assuring a rigorous adherence to standards established by scientific advisory groups and a strict enforcement of world calibration standards. A number of programmes such as education, workshops, calibration station visits and so on are provided within the GAW programme to enhance the performance of the human component of the GAW. This has become particularly important in recent years as quite a number of stations are now operating in developing countries where further education is often a luxury enjoyed only by a small élite.

Data centres
The Global Atmosphere Watch currently has six World Data Centres, each administered by its host nation, and each responsible for gathering and storing atmospheric data from measurement stations worldwide, and making it freely available to scientists in a number of different forms.

The six data centres are:

 * 1) The World Ozone and UV radiation Data Centre (WOUDC ), hosted by Environment Canada.
 * 2) The World Data Centre for Greenhouse Gases (WDCGG ), hosted by the Japan Meteorological Agency.
 * 3) The World Data Centre for Aerosols (WDCA), hosted by the Norwegian Institute for Air Research (NILU).
 * 4) The World Radiation Data Centre (WRDC ), hosted by the Voeikov Main Geophysical Observatory, St Petersburg
 * 5) The World Data Centre for Precipitation Chemistry (WDCPC ) hosted by the Illinois State Water Survey
 * 6) The World Data Centre for Remote Sensing of the Atmosphere (WDC-RSAT ), hosted by the German Aerospace Centre (DLR).

External scientific groups
Scientific Advisory Groups (SAGs) have the job of managing and implementing the GAW programme. This includes establishing data quality objectives and standard operating procedures, and also providing guidelines and recommendations for achieving these things. Measurement methods and procedures also fall within the SAGs' domain. They are also charged with promoting twinning and training in developing countries.

title: Global Atmosphere Watch


text:
Talk:Namcha Barwa

Elevation
As far as I am aware, all modern sources agree on 7782 m. I do not know for certain if it is more accurate than 7756 m, but in the absence of any modern information in support of 7756 m being more accurate, I do not think we should use it. Viewfinder 07:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm working on a revision of this article in my sandbox. Can you please provide sources showing 7782m? LADave (talk) 00:28, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Proposal: revert to orginial spelling
Namcha Barwa is the most commonly used English spelling. The article title was changed without discusssion by user 虞海 without previous discussion.

I propose to have the title moved back to Namcha Barwa for the following two reasons:

 * Respect of the most common English spelling according to Naming conventions (Tibetan)
 * Consistency with the spelling used in other WP pages, e.g. Namcha Barwa Himal, List of highest mountains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pseudois (talk • contribs) 17:15, 12 November 2011
 * You may do a research. Namjagbarwa, by far is well-established, well-presented, and common English term. ––虞海 ( Yú Hǎi )  ✍  17:00, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Plus, Naming conventions on Chinese territory says for places in Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, and Tibet, the name preferred by Xinhua or similarly authoritative organs may be used. ––虞海 ( Yú Hǎi )  ✍  17:06, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Namcha Barwa is the traditional English spelling since at least one century. Namjagbarwa is not common English spelling. Please read again the naming convention you have been citing: "use pinyin for place names in China unless another form is more well-established in current English usage."
 * You were mostly right but the "Namjagbarwa is not common English spelling" claim is wrong. Neither the name is more well-established than the other. ––虞海 ( Yú Hǎi )  ✍  05:39, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
 * For the same reason, Taklamakan Desert is called Taklamakan Desert in English, and not Tǎkèlāmǎgān Shāmò or Täklimakan qumluqi. We should refer to Xinhua and other sources only if there is no common spelling in English, which is not the case here, the naming covention says it clearly. And by the way, Xinhua is also using the spelling "Namcha Barwa", see here (but I wouldn't use this point as an argument, as the use of Namcha Barwa in English is clearly established). You will also notice that the same Xinhua source is using the spelling "Gang Rinpoche" and "Chogori", two other amongst your recent edits.--Pseudois (talk) 07:56, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment:
 * Following Place_names_in_China, this article should be named Namjagbarwa Peak, not Namcha Barwa.
 * Xinhua does use "Namcha Barwa" (or "Gang Rinpoche" and "Chogori"), and that's completely fine because it's no different than Vietnamese usage of Saigon. This is called a historical usage or a styled name, not a formal addressing. None of these example can prove one to be more well-established than the other. Similar case is "Seoul, Soul of Asia", where Sŏul being the McCune-Reischauer romanization of the city's name this means nothing to the official accurate name of the entity.
 * BTW, Taklamakan Desert is also often known is Taklimakan Desert, Teklimakan Desert or sometimes even Taklimakan Shamo. I'm not sure which one is more common.
 * ––虞海 ( Yú Hǎi )  ✍  05:39, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

 * Support reversion to Namcha Barwa. Incidentally, the user who is making the changes is only making changes to the title of the articles, leaving a nasty inconsistency between the title and the main text of the article. This article is a case in point. Ericoides (talk) 16:00, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I mentioned its name in "officially: Namjag Barwa". It was my fault not to mention the exact same name in the article, but this means nothing on choosing the name. Now it's ok. ––<Span xml:lang="zh-Hant-CN" lang="zh-Hant">虞海</Span> ( Yú Hǎi ) <Big> ✍ </Big> 05:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:55, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Namcha Barwa China Animation Video.gif

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:56, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Namcha Barwa China Animation Video.gif

title: Talk:Namcha Barwa


text:
Community-acquired pneumonia

Community-acquired pneumonia (CAP) refers to pneumonia (any of several lung diseases) contracted by a person outside of the healthcare system. In contrast, hospital-acquired pneumonia (HAP) is seen in patients who have recently visited a hospital or who live in long-term care facilities. CAP is common, affecting people of all ages, and its symptoms occur as a result of oxygen-absorbing areas of the lung (alveoli) filling with fluid. This inhibits lung function, causing dyspnea, fever, chest pains and cough.

CAP, the most common type of pneumonia, is a leading cause of illness and death worldwide. Its causes include bacteria, viruses, fungi and parasites. CAP is diagnosed by assessing symptoms, performing a physical examination, by x-ray or by sputum examination. Patients with CAP sometimes require hospitalization, and it is treated primarily with antibiotics, antipyretics and cough medicine. Some forms of CAP can be prevented by vaccination and by abstaining from tobacco products.

Common symptoms

 * Coughing which produces greenish or yellow sputum
 * A high fever, accompanied by sweating, chills and shivering
 * Sharp, stabbing chest pains
 * Rapid, shallow, often painful breathing

Less-common symptoms

 * Coughing up blood (hemoptysis)
 * Headaches, including migraines
 * Loss of appetite
 * Excessive fatigue
 * Bluish skin (cyanosis)
 * Nausea
 * Vomiting
 * Diarrhea
 * Joint pain (arthralgia)
 * Muscle aches (myalgia)
 * Rapid heartbeat
 * Dizziness or lightheadedness

In the elderly

 * New or worsening confusion
 * Hypothermia
 * Poor coordination, which may lead to falls

In infants

 * Unusual sleepiness
 * Yellowing of the skin (jaundice)
 * Difficulty feeding

Complications
Major complications of CAP include:
 * Sepsis - A life-threatening reaction to infection. A common cause of sepsis is bacterial pneumonia, frequently the result of infection with streptococcus pneumoniae. Patients with sepsis require intensive care with blood pressure monitoring and support against hypotension. Sepsis can cause liver, kidney and heart damage.
 * Respiratory failure - CAP patients often have dyspnea, which may require support. Non-invasive machines (such as bilevel positive airway pressure), a tracheal tube or a ventilator may be used.
 * Pleural effusion and empyema - Microorganisms from the lung may trigger fluid collection in the pleural cavity, or empyema. Pleural fluid, if present, should be collected with a needle and examined. Depending on the results, complete drainage of the fluid with a chest tube may be necessary to prevent proliferation of the infection. Antibiotics, which do not penetrate the pleural cavity well, are less effective.
 * Abscess - A pocket of fluid and bacteria may appear on X-ray as a cavity in the lung. Abscesses, typical of aspiration pneumonia, usually contain a mixture of anaerobic bacteria. Although antibiotics can usually cure abscesses, sometimes they require drainage by a surgeon or radiologist.

Causes
Many different microorganisms can cause CAP. However, the most common cause is Streptococcus pneumoniae. Certain groups of people are more susceptible to CAP-causing pathogens - infants, adults with chronic conditions (such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease), and senior citizens. Alcoholics and others with compromised immune systems are more likely to develop CAP from Haemophilus influenzae or Pneumocystis jirovecii. A definitive cause is identified in only half the cases.

Neonates and infants
It is possible for a fetus to develop a lung infection before birth by aspirating infected amniotic fluid or through a blood-borne infection which crossed the placenta. Infants can also inhale contaminated fluid from the vagina at birth. The most prevalent pathogen causing CAP in newborns is Streptococcus agalactiae, also known as group-B streptococcus (GBS). GBS causes more than half of CAP in the first week after birth. Other bacterial causes of neonatal CAP include Listeria monocytogenes and a variety of mycobacteria. CAP-causing viruses may also be transferred from mother to child; herpes simplex virus, the most common, is life-threatening, and adenoviridae, mumps and enterovirus can also cause pneumonia. Another cause of neonatal CAP is Chlamydia trachomatis, which, though acquired at birth, does not cause pneumonia until two to four weeks later. It usually presents with no fever and a characteristic, staccato cough.

CAP in older infants reflects increased exposure to microorganisms, with common bacterial causes including Streptococcus pneumoniae, Escherichia coli, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Moraxella catarrhalis and Staphylococcus aureus. Maternally-derived syphilis is also a cause of CAP in infants. Viral causes include human respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), human metapneumovirus, adenovirus, human parainfluenza viruses, influenza and rhinovirus, and RSV is a common source of illness and hospitalization in infants. CAP caused by fungi or parasites is not usually seen in otherwise-healthy infants.

Children
Although children older than one month tend to be at risk for the same microorganisms as adults, children under five years of age are much less likely to have pneumonia caused by Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Chlamydophila pneumoniae or Legionella pneumophila than older children. In contrast, older children and teenagers are more likely to acquire Mycoplasma pneumoniae and Chlamydophila pneumoniae than adults.

Adults
A full spectrum of microorganisms is responsible for CAP in adults, and patients with certain risk factors are more susceptible to infections by certain groups of microorganisms. Identifying people at risk for infection by these organisms aids in appropriate treatment. Many less-common organisms can cause CAP in adults; these may be determined by identifying specific risk factors, or when treatment for more common causes fails.

Risk factors
Some patients have an underlying problem which increases their risk of infection. Some risk factors are:
 * Obstruction - When part of the airway (bronchus) leading to the alveoli is obstructed, the lung cannot eliminate fluid; this can lead to pneumonia. One cause of obstruction, especially in young children, is inhalation of a foreign object such as a marble or toy. The object lodges in a small airway, and pneumonia develops in the obstructed area of the lung. Another cause of obstruction is lung cancer, which can block the flow of air.
 * Lung disease - Patients with underlying lung disease are more likely to develop pneumonia. Diseases such as emphysema and habits such as smoking result in more frequent and more severe bouts of pneumonia. In children, recurrent pneumonia may indicate cystic fibrosis or pulmonary sequestration.
 * Immune problems - Immune-deficient patients, such as those with HIV/AIDS, are more likely to develop pneumonia. Other immune problems that increase the risk of developing pneumonia range from severe childhood immune deficiencies, such as Wiskott–Aldrich syndrome, to the less severe common variable immunodeficiency.

Pathophysiology
The symptoms of CAP are the result of lung infection by microorganisms and the response of the immune system to the infection. Mechanisms of infection are different for viruses and other microorganisms.

Viruses
Up to 20 percent of CAP cases can be attributed to viruses. The most common viral causes are influenza, parainfluenza, human respiratory syncytial virus, human metapneumovirus and adenovirus. Less common viruses which may cause serious illness include chickenpox, SARS, avian flu and hantavirus.

Typically, a virus enters the lungs through the inhalation of water droplets and invades the cells lining the airways and the alveoli. This leads to cell death; the cells are killed by the virus or they self-destruct. Further lung damage occurs when the immune system responds to the infection. White blood cells, particularly lymphocytes, activate chemicals known as cytokines which cause fluid to leak into the alveoli. The combination of cell destruction and fluid-filled alveoli interrupts the transportation of oxygen into the bloodstream. In addition to their effects on the lungs, many viruses affect other organs. Viral infections weaken the immune system, making the body more susceptible to bacterial infection, including bacterial pneumonia.

Bacteria and fungi
Although most cases of bacterial pneumonia are caused by Streptococcus pneumoniae, infections by atypical bacteria such as Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Chlamydophila pneumoniae, and Legionella pneumophila can also cause CAP. Enteric gram-negative bacteria, such as Escherichia coli and Klebsiella pneumoniae, are a group of bacteria that typically live in the large intestine; contamination of food and water by these bacteria can result in outbreaks of pneumonia. Pseudomonas aeruginosa, an uncommon cause of CAP, is a difficult bacteria to treat.

Bacteria and fungi typically enter the lungs by inhalation of water droplets, although they can reach the lung through the bloodstream if an infection is present. In the alveoli, bacteria and fungi travel into the spaces between cells and adjacent alveoli through connecting pores. The immune system responds by releasing neutrophil granulocytes, white blood cells responsible for attacking microorganisms, into the lungs. The neutrophils engulf and kill the microorganisms, releasing cytokines which activate the entire immune system. This response causes fever, chills and fatigue, common symptoms of CAP. The neutrophils, bacteria and fluids leaked from surrounding blood vessels fill the alveoli, impairing oxygen transport. Bacteria may travel from the lung to the bloodstream, causing septic shock (very low blood pressure which damages the brain, kidney, and heart).

Parasites
A variety of parasites can affect the lungs, generally entering the body through the skin or by being swallowed. They then travel to the lungs through the blood, where the combination of cell destruction and immune response disrupts oxygen transport.

Diagnosis
Patients with symptoms of CAP require evaluation. Diagnosis of pneumonia is made clinically, rather than on the basis of a particular test. Evaluation begins with a physical examination by a health provider, which may reveal fever, an increased respiratory rate (tachypnea), low blood pressure (hypotension), a fast heart rate (tachycardia) and changes in the amount of oxygen in the blood. Palpating the chest as it expands and tapping the chest wall to identify dull, non-resonant areas can identify stiffness and fluid, signs of CAP. Listening to the lungs with a stethoscope (auscultation) can also reveal signs associated with CAP. A lack of normal breath sounds or the presence of crackles can indicate fluid consolidation. Increased vibration of the chest when speaking, known as tactile fremitus, and increased volume of whispered speech during auscultation can also indicate the presence of fluid.

Several tests can identify the cause of CAP. Blood cultures can isolate bacteria or fungi in the bloodstream. Sputum Gram staining and culture can also reveal the causative microorganism. In severe cases, bronchoscopy can collect fluid for culture. Special tests, such as urinalysis, can be performed if an uncommon microorganism is suspected.

Chest X-rays and X-ray computed tomography (CT) can reveal areas of opacity (seen as white), indicating consolidation. CAP does not always appear on x-rays, sometimes because the disease is in its initial stages or involves a part of the lung not clearly visible on x-ray. In some cases, chest CT can reveal pneumonia not seen on x-rays. However, congestive heart failure or other types of lung damage can mimic CAP on x-ray.

When signs of pneumonia are discovered during evaluation, chest X-rays and examination of the blood and sputum for infectious microorganisms may be done to support a diagnosis of CAP. The diagnostic tools employed will depend on the severity of illness, local practices and concern about complications of the infection. All patients with CAP should have their blood oxygen monitored with pulse oximetry. In some cases, arterial blood gas analysis may be required to determine the amount of oxygen in the blood. A complete blood count (CBC) may reveal extra white blood cells, indicating infection.

Prevention
CAP may be prevented by treating underlying illnesses that increases its risk, by smoking cessation, and by vaccination. Vaccination against haemophilus influenzae and streptococcus pneumoniae in the first year of life has been protective against childhood CAP. A vaccine against streptococcus pneumoniae, available for adults, is recommended for healthy individuals over 65 and all adults with COPD, heart failure, diabetes mellitus, cirrhosis, alcoholism, cerebrospinal fluid leaks or who have had a splenectomy. Re-vaccination may be required after five or ten years.

Patients who have been vaccinated against streptococcus pneumoniae, health professionals, nursing-home residents and pregnant women should be vaccinated annually against influenza. During an outbreak, drugs such as amantadine, rimantadine, zanamivir and oseltamivir have been demonstrated to prevent influenza.

Treatment
CAP is treated with an antibiotic that kills the infecting microorganism; treatment also aims at managing complications. If the causative microorganism is unidentified, which is often the case, the laboratory identifies the most effective antibiotic; this may take several days.

Health professionals consider a person's risk factors for various organisms when choosing an initial antibiotic. Additional consideration is given to the treatment setting; most patients are cured by oral medication, while others must be hospitalized for intravenous therapy or intensive care. Current treatment guidelines recommend a beta lactam, like amoxicillin and a macrolide, like azithromycin or clarithromycin, or a quinolone, such as levofloxacin. Doxycycline is the antibiotic of choice in the UK for atypical bacteria, due to increased clostridium difficile colitis in hospital patients linked to the increased use of clarithromycin.

Ceftriaxone and azithromycin are often used to treat community acquired pneumonia, which usually present with a few days of cough, fever, and shortness of breath. Chest x-ray typically reveals a lobar infiltrate (rather than diffuse).

Newborns
Most newborn infants with CAP are hospitalized, receiving IV ampicillin and gentamicin for at least ten days to treat the common causative agents streptococcus agalactiae, listeria monocytogenes and escherichia coli. To treat the herpes simplex virus, IV acyclovir is administered for 21 days.

Children
Treatment of CAP in children depends on the child's age and the severity of illness. Children under five are not usually treated for atypical bacteria. If hospitalization is not required, a seven-day course of amoxicillin is often prescribed, with co-trimaxazole as an alternative when there is allergy to penicillins. Further studies are needed to confirm the efficacy of newer antibiotics. With the increase in drug-resistant Streptococcus pneumoniae, antibiotics such as cefpodoxime may become more popular. Hospitalized children receive intravenous ampicillin, ceftriaxone or cefotaxime, and a recent study found that a three-day course of antibiotics seems sufficient for most mild-to-moderate CAP in children.

Adults
In 2001 the American Thoracic Society, drawing on the work of the British and Canadian Thoracic Societies, established guidelines for the management of adult CAP by dividing patients into four categories based on common organisms:
 * Healthy outpatients without risk factors: This group (the largest) is composed of otherwise-healthy patients without risk factors for DRSP, enteric gram-negative bacteria, pseudomonas or other, less common, causes of CAP. Primary microorganisms are viruses, atypical bacteria, penicillin-sensitive streptococcus pneumoniae and haemophilus influenzae. Recommended drugs are macrolide antibiotics, such as azithromycin or clarithromycin, for seven to ten days. A shorter course of these antibiotics has been investigated, however, there is not sufficient evidence to make recommendations.
 * Outpatients with underlying illness or risk factors: Although this group does not require hospitalization, they have underlying health problems such as emphysema or heart failure or are at risk for DRSP or enteric gram-negative bacteria. They may be treated with a quinolone active against streptococcus pneumoniae (such as levofloxacin) or a β-lactam antibiotic (such as cefpodoxime, cefuroxime, amoxicillin or amoxicillin/clavulanic acid) and a macrolide antibiotic, such as azithromycin or clarithromycin, for seven to ten days.
 * Hospitalized patients without risk for pseudomonas: This group requires intravenous antibiotics, with a quinolone active against streptococcus pneumoniae (such as levofloxacin), a β-lactam antibiotic (such as cefotaxime, ceftriaxone, ampicillin/sulbactam or high-dose ampicillin plus a macrolide antibiotic (such as azithromycin or clarithromycin) for seven to ten days.
 * Intensive-care patients at risk for pseudomonas aeruginosa: These patients require antibiotics targeting this difficult-to-eradicate bacterium. One regimen is an intravenous antipseudomonal beta-lactam such as cefepime, imipenem, meropenem or piperacillin/tazobactam, plus an IV antipseudomonal fluoroquinolone such as levofloxacin. Another is an IV antipseudomonal beta-lactam such as cefepime, imipenem, meropenem or piperacillin/tazobactam, plus an aminoglycoside such as gentamicin or tobramycin, plus a macrolide (such as azithromycin) or a nonpseudomonal fluoroquinolone such as ciprofloxacin.

For mild-to-moderate CAP, shorter courses of antibiotics (3–7 days) seem to be sufficient.

Some patients with CAP will be at increased risk of death despite antimicrobial treatment. A key reason for this is the host's exaggerated inflammatory response. There is a tension between controlling the infection on one hand and minimizing damage to other tissues on the other. Some recent research focuses on immunomodulatory therapy that can modulate the immune response in order to reduce injury to the lung and other affected organs such as the heart. Although the evidence for these agents has not resulted in their routine use, their potential benefits are promising.

Hospitalization
Some CAP patients require intensive care, with clinical prediction rules such as the pneumonia severity index and CURB-65 guiding the decision whether or not to hospitalize. Factors increasing the need for hospitalization include:
 * Age greater than 65
 * Underlying chronic illnesses
 * Respiratory rate greater than 30 per minute
 * Systolic blood pressure less than 90 mmHg
 * Heart rate greater than 125 per minute
 * Temperature below 35 or over 40 °C
 * Confusion
 * Evidence of infection outside the lung

Laboratory results indicating hospitalization include:
 * Arterial oxygen tension less than 60 mm Hg
 * Carbon dioxide over 50 mmHg or pH under 7.35 while breathing room air
 * Hematocrit under 30 percent
 * Creatinine over 1.2 mg/dl or blood urea nitrogen over 20 mg/dl
 * White-blood-cell count under 4 × 10^9/L or over 30 × 10^9/L
 * Neutrophil count under 1 x 10^9/L

X-ray findings indicating hospitalization include:
 * Involvement of more than one lobe of the lung
 * Presence of a cavity
 * Pleural effusion

Prognosis
The CAP outpatient mortality rate is less than one percent, with fever typically responding within the first two days of therapy, and other symptoms abating in the first week. However, X-rays may remain abnormal for at least a month. Hospitalized patients have an average mortality rate of 12 percent, with the rate rising to 40 percent for patients with bloodstream infections or those who require intensive care. Factors increasing mortality are identical to those indicating hospitalization.

When CAP does not respond to treatment, this may indicate a previously unknown health problem, a treatment complication, inappropriate antibiotics for the causative organism, a previously unsuspected microorganism (such as tuberculosis) or a condition mimicking CAP (such as granuloma with polyangiitis). Additional tests include X-ray computed tomography, bronchoscopy or lung biopsy.

Epidemiology
CAP is common worldwide, and is a major cause of death in all age groups. In children, most deaths (over two million a year) occur in the newborn period. According to a World Health Organization estimate, one in three newborn deaths result from pneumonia. Mortality decreases with age until late adulthood, with the elderly at risk for CAP and its associated mortality.

More CAP cases occur during the winter than at other times of the year. CAP is more common in males than females, and more common in black people than Caucasians. Patients with underlying illnesses (such as Alzheimer's disease, cystic fibrosis, COPD, tobacco smoking, alcoholism or immune-system problems) have an increased risk of developing pneumonia.

title: Community-acquired pneumonia


text:
User talk:TrueSkeptic

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title: User talk:TrueSkeptic


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User talk:Daylightdemon~enwiki

A welcome from Sango123
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User:ScottDavis/plain town names/Victoria

This list was created from the Victorian postcode list and removing the piped link, leaving an unqualified placename. It is the first step in discovering badly-named Australian town articles without a category.

According to the Wikipedia naming policy, every Australian town article should be named with a comma and the state after the town name.

Every blue link on this page should be to either:
 * 1) a redirect to a fully-named article,
 * 2) a disambiguation page with a link to the Australian place, or
 * 3) an article about someone or something else with a link to the disambiguation page that points to the fully-named article.

Over time, I intend to check the blue links, and when they meet the above criteria, remove the blue links to make it easier to check any new pages. If you wish to help, please remove blue links that point to a page as described above. Do not insert disambiguation links into this page.

A
Abeckett Street, Appin Park, Ardmona, Armadale North,

B
Bailieston, Ballarat West, Balmattum, Balook, Bamawm, Bambra, Banyena, Banyule, Baranduda, Baringhup, Barkers Creek, Barkstead, Barnadown, Barongarook, Barrabool, Barramunga, Barunah Park, Barwon Downs, Bayindeen, Bealiba, Bedford Road, Bellarine, Belvedere Park, Benarch, Benayeo, Bendoc, Bengworden, Bennison, Berrimal, Berringama, Berriwillock, Berrybank, Berrys Creek, Bet Bet, Betley, Biggara, Binginwarri, Blakeville, Blowhard, Bogong, Boho South, Bolwarra, Bolwarrah, Bonang, Boorcan, Boorhaman, Boorhaman North, Borung, Bowmans Forest, Boxwood, Branditt, Brentford Square, Brighton Road, Broadwater, Broomfield, Browns Plains, Buangor, Buckley, Buffalo River, Bullarook, Bunbartha, Bundalaguah, Bungador, Bungeet, Burrowye, Burwood Heights, Butchers Ridge, Bylands, Byrneside,

C
Cabbage Tree Creek, Calivil, Calulu, Camberwell East, Camberwell North, Camberwell South, Camberwell West, Cambrian Hill, Campbells Bridge, Campbells Forest, Campbelltown, Caniambo, Cannie, Carapook, Carlisle River, Carlton South, Carngham, Carrajung South, Carranballac, Caulfield Junction, Central Park, Chapple Vale, Charleroi, Chatsworth, Cheltenham East, Chepstowe, Chetwynd, Childers, Clarendon, Clarkes Hill, Club Terrace, Coalville, Coatesville, Coghills Creek, Coimadai, Colliver, Combienbar, Comet Hill, Connewirricoo, Cooma, Coomboona, Corack, Coragulac, Coronet Bay, Cororooke, Corunnun, Cosgrove, Costerfield, Craigie, Creek Junction, Creighton, Cromer, Cudgee, Cundare North, Curdie Vale, Curdies River,

D
Dalyston, Dandongadale, Darlimurla, Darling, Darlington, Darriman, Deer Park East, Dendy, Derby, Dergholm, Devon North, Dhurringile, Doncaster Heights, Dookie College, Douglas, Dreeite, Drummond, Dundonnell, Dunkirk, Durham Lead, Duverney,

E
Eagle Point, East Sale Raaf, Eastern View, Ebden, Elliminyt, Elmhurst, Emu, Eppalock, Epping DC, Eurobin, Evansford,

F
Fairhaven, Fern Hill, Fernihurst, Flinders Lane, Flynn, Fosterville, Fountain Gate, Freeburgh, Freshwater Creek,

G
Gapsted, Garden City, Garvoc, Gatum, Geelong, Gelantipy, Gellibrand, Gellibrand Lower, Gelliondale, Gerang Gerung, Gerangamete, Gillieston, Gippsland Mc, Gipsy Point, Glen Alvie, Glen Creek, Glen Forbes, Glenfyne, Glenmore, Gnarwarre, Gnotuk, Gobur, Goldsborough, Gooram, Gooramadda, Goornong, Gorae, Gormandale, Goughs Bay, Goulburn Weir, Gowangardie, Granya, Grassmere, Graytown, Gredgwin, Gundowring, Guthridge, Guys Forest,

H
Hallston, Hampton North, Harston, Hawksburn, Hedley, Hernes Oak, Hidden Valley, Highpoint City, Hillcrest, Hmas Cerberus, Holmesglen, Homewood, Hopetoun Gardens, Hordern Vale, Hotham Heights, Hotham Hill, Houston, Hume Weir, Hunter, Huntly, Huon,

I
Illabarook, Illowa, Inkerman, Invergordon South, Invermay, Irrewarra,

J
Jam Jerrup, Jancourt, Jancourt East, Jarklin, Jeetho, Jumbuk, Jung, Junortoun,

K
Kalimna, Kanumbra, Kanyapella, Kardella, Karnak, Katandra, Katunga, Kawarren, Kennedys Creek, Keon Park, Kernot, Kerrisdale, Kialla East, Kialla West, Kiata, Kiewa, Kithbrook, Knowsley, Knox City Centre, Koetong, Kolora, Koonda, Koornalla, Koriella, Korweinguboora, Kotta, Koyuga, Koyuga South, Krowera, Kunyung,

L
Labertouche, Lake Mundi, Lake Tyers, Lake Tyers Beach, Landsborough, Langkoop, Larpent, Lawloit, Leichardt, Leigh Creek, Leneva, Lerderderg, Lillimur, Lima, Lindenow South, Litchfield, Llanelly, Locksley, Lockwood South, Lone Pine, Longlea, Lubeck, Lucknow, Lucyvale,

M
Macks Creek, Magpie, Mailer Flat, Mandurang, Marong, Maroona, Meerlieu, Melville Forest, Mepunga, Merlynston, Mid Valley, Middle Camberwell, Mildura Centre Plaza, Milloo, Mincha, Mincha West, Miners Rest, Minhamite, Mininera, Miram, Mirimbah, Mitchell Park, Mitchell Park, Mitre, Modewarre, Moggs Creek, Mollongghip, Moonambel, Moondarra, Moorabbin East, Moreland, Morrisons, Mossiface, Mount Alfred, Mount Best, Mount Buffalo, Mount Helen, Mount Hotham, Mount Lonarch, Mount Moriac, Mount Rowan, Mount Taylor, Mount Wallace, Mountain Gate, Moutajup, Muckleford South, Murgheboluc, Murmungee, Murroon, Myers Flat, Myrtlebank,

N
Nalangil, Nambrok, Nanneella, Nareen, Nariel Valley, Naringal, Natte Yallock, Navigators, Neerim, Neerim Junction, Neerim South, Nerrena, Nerrin Nerrin, Nerrina, Neuarpurr, Newbury, Newlands Arm, Nirranda, Noorinbee, Noradjuha, Norong, North Bendigo, North Road, Northland Centre, Nullawarre, Nullawil, Nyora,

O
Ondit, Ozenkadnook,

P
Paradise Beach, Patho, Peronne, Piangil, Piavella, Pine Lodge, Pines Forest, Pirron Yallock, Pomborneit, Poolaijelo, Pootilla, Prairie, Prentice North, Preston South, Puckapunyal Milpo, Pura Pura,

Q
Quambatook, Quantong,

R
Rangeview, Rathscar, Ravenswood, Raymond Island, Red Bluff, Redbank, Reedy Creek, Regent West, Robinson, Rocklands, Rocklyn, Rokewood Junction, Rosebrook, Ross Creek, Rubicon, Russells Bridge,

S
Salisbury West, Sandhurst East, Sandown Village, Sandy Creek, Sarsfield, Sassafras Gully, Scotts Creek, Seaspray, Sebastian, Seddon West, She Oaks, Sheep Hills, Shelbourne, Shelley, Shepparton East, Simmie, Simson, Skenes Creek, Smythes Creek, South Dudley, Southern Cross, Southland Centre, Sovereign Hill, Spring Gully, Springbank, St Helens, St Kilda Road Central, St Kilda South, Stavely, Stonehaven, Stonyford, Strathallan, Strathdale, Strathdownie, Strathkellar, Strathmerton, Studfield, Swan Marsh,

T
Tabilk, Taggerty, Talgarno, Tallygaroopna, Tambo Upper, Tamleugh, Tamleugh West, Tandarra, Tanjil South, Tankerton, Tarranyurk, Tarraville, Tarwin, Tatyoon, Tawonga South, Telangatuk East, Tenby Point, The Gurdies, Thornton, Thorpdale South, Thowgla Valley, Tidal River, Toolondo, Toolong, Tower Hill, Tubbut, Tunstall Square Po, Tysons Reef,

U
Ullina, Upper Plenty,

V
Vasey, Victoria Valley,

W
Waaia, Wahring, Wairewa, Walkerville South, Wallup, Walpa, Wanalta, Wando Vale, Wangoom, Wareek, Warncoort, Warrak, Warrenbayne, Wattle Park, Weatherboard, Weering, Wendouree Village, Werneth, Westmere, Whitlands, Whorouly, Willung, Willung South, Windermere, Winnap, Winslow, Wiseleigh, Wishart, Wodonga Plaza, Wombelano, Won Wron, Wongarra, Woodfield, Woodleigh, Woodstock West, Wool Wool, Woolamai, Wooragee, Wulgulmerang, Wunghnu, Wurdiboluc, Wurruk, Wy Yung, Wycheproof, Wychitella, Wyuna,

 * World Trade Centre: Perhaps an exception? See World Trade Centre (Melbourne)

Y
Yaapeet, Yambuna, Yanac, Yandoit, Yarraville West, Yarrawalla, Yarrunga, Yendon, Yeo, Yeodene, Youanmite,