text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/REX

Case Opened on 20:45, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Case Closed on 22:17, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Please do not edit this page directly unless you wish to become a participant in this request. (All participants are subject to Arbitration Committee decisions, and the ArbCom will consider each participant's role in the dispute.) Comments are very welcome on the Talk page, and will be read, in full. Evidence, no matter who can provide it, is very welcome at /Evidence. Evidence is more useful than comments.

Arbitrators will be working on evidence and suggesting proposed decisions at /Workshop and voting on proposed decisions at /Proposed decision.

Involved parties

 * has complained regarding the behavior of
 * with respect to articles concerning Arvanitika.

The case has beeen opened mainly to consider the behavior of REX

Statement by party 1
Please limit your statement to 500 words

Statement by party 1 (REX)
On the Wikipedia article Arvanites there has been a dispute going on for quite some time over whether the Arvanitic language is a language in its own right or a dialect of the Albanian language. I have provided the following references: These are wholly credible sources, especially UNESCO which is an agency of the United Nations and they specifically refer to Arvanitic as a diaspora dialect of Albanian. User:Theathenae utterly rejects these sources and will edit war anyone who disagrees with him, however credible his opponent’s sources may be. He has written on the article Arvanites: Their language, Arvanitic has developed separately from Tosk Albanian and has been heavily influenced by Greek over the course of the past five centuries, to the extent that it is today considered a separate language by speakers and linguists alike. This statement is utterly his POV. He has provided no evidence to support such a statement and it contradicts with what UNESCO says. He also says on Talk:Arvanites that the article sould say: Their language, Arvanitic shares a common origin with the Tosk Albanian language this statement is also wholly inaccurate because it calls Arvanitic a language which shares a common origin with Tosk Albanian, rather like English and German are separate languages which share a common origin. This statement is also influenced by his POV and contradicts with UNESCO's statement. I have pleaded with him on his Talk Page and on Talk:Arvanites for him to consider his stance carefully, but he refuses only saying that (quote from Talk:Arvanites):  I will continue to defend their right not to be labelled against their will. This statement that it is against their will is quite inaccurate. The Helsinki Report on Human Rights clearly says that some Arvanites use the term Shqiptar to describe themselves, that is the same term that Albanians use to describe themselves. Therefore, how can being called Albanians be against their will? Anyway, UNESCO, Encarta and Ethnologue wouldn't use that phrasing if it were against their will as he puts it. The UNESCO, Encarta and Ethnologue Reports were written by professionals, they knew what they were doing. I have proved all his sources to be false here but he has not indicated that he will observe Wikipedia policy. His behaviour is utterly unacceptable on Wikipedia I have told him on many occasions, but he refuses to listen. I have asked him to provide some references so that I could know that the scholarly community view Arvanitic as a separate language and not that he is not speaking off the top of his head (Verifiability and No original research). He can't, I have already demonstrated above that at least linguistically Arvanitic is a dialect of Albanian, and my sources above indicate that the scholarly establishment view it the same way (Both the UNESCO Report and the Ethnologue Report were compiled by professional linguists). If a certain phrasing is good enough for an agency of the UN (UNESCO), then it is certainly good enough for Wikipedia. We simply cannot accept User:Theathenae’s word over the word of institutions like UNESCO. This would be a violation of Wikipedia policies Verifiability and No original research. REX 11:26, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Encarta refers to Arvanitic as a variant of Albanian.
 * UNESCO RED BOOK ON ENDANGERED LANGUAGES: EUROPE refers to Arvanitic as a diaspora dialect of Tosk Albanian
 * Ethnologue calls the language Arvanitika Albanian.

Additional statement by REX, motivated by renaming of case
As I don't know what I am being accused of ("considering the behaviour of REX" is very vague and does not refer to any specific transgression), I'll do my best to defend the behaviour I suspect you are referring to. I apologise if this is too much, but the relevant evidence would have been on the preliminary statements, but for some reason the name of the dispute has changed and with it, the focal point of the statements. Firstly, and I would like to make this quite clear, my behaviour broadly reflects the behaviour of almost everyone on the relevant talk pages (mostly Talk:Arvanites and Talk:Macedonia (Slav)). I suspect you know by now that the nature of the disputes, in both cases, is in reference to content and phrasing. These disputes have been going on for about five months. They already existed before I joined in; this can be ascertained by checking the discussion on the relevant talk pages. My views, in both cases, were always backed by reliable sources in accordance with Wikipedia policies Cite sources and Verifiability. These sources were usually Official Reports or Encyclopaedia articles from other encyclopaedias (not Wikipedia).
 * In the Arvanites dispute, the questionable points can be seen at this diff. All my edits were fully compatible with Wikipedia policy and were true, as opposed to Theathenae's which were original research and lacked any verifiability whatsoever or contradicted what existing sources said. He hadn't provided any sources so that other editors could know where he got his information.
 * In detail, my sources are as follows:

 * I say that Σ̈κ̇ιπτάρε̰ Shqiptarë is another self-identifying name for this ethnic-group and Theathenae says that it isn't. According to the HHRC's report: They call themselves Arvanites (in Greek) and Arberor (in their language); but in Northwestern Greece, in their language, they use the term Shqiptar (the same used by Albanians of Albania), a term strongly disliked by the other Arvanites, who also resent being called Albanians. This is a difficult situation, because the article in question applies to both these groups but, depending on location, they use different names to refer to themselves, and the name used by one of these groups is found offensive by the other. Theathenae wishes to remove the name Shqiptar on the grounds that the Arvanites of North-western Greece are not Arvanites since they don't identify as Arvanites, but as Albanians. This claim, which may be true, has no verifiability and is original research. What I want to say is backed by the above source and according to policy my version can be used, but his cannot.
 * The and Arvanitë in Albanian is an attempt to compromise with Theathenae because it emphasises the differences between Arvanites and Albanians, given that modern Albanians don't call the Arvanites of North-western Greece Shqiptar (ie Albanians) like they call themselves, but Arvanite (ie Arvanites) means that the Albanians do NOT view the Arvanites as Albanians. Theathenae rejects this (I don't know why). The verifiability of my claim can be found in any Albanian dictionary (that Arvanit means Arvanite), but it should be noted that its verifiability has never been challenged. It has just been called redundant.
 * The a variety of as promoted by me and the closely related to modern Tosk Albanian but has evolved separately over the course of the past five centuries as promoted by Theathenae is also disputed. UNESCO calls the language Arvanitika Albanian and says that it is a diaspora dialect of Tosk Albanian (it should also be noted that Britannica calls it a dialect of Albanian and Encarta calls is a variant of Albanian, at the article Albanian language in both encyclopaedias. Given that these are not readily accessible online without payment of a fee, I have not used them as my only sources). I have been prepared to leave out Albanian from the name of the language, that is why now it is just called Arvanitika, for the sake of avoiding a massive dispute on the subject (I however fail to see why I should compromise and make all the first moves, given that I am the one with the sources) The word variety is a linguistic term and can refer to a dialect or a variety of a standard language in its own right, and is another concession from me. The diaspora dialect (which is verifiable and can be used according to Wikipedia policy) seems to be something that can provoke and edit war, so I replaced it with the rather subtle word variety. Theathenae rejects this in favour of his original research. The evolved separately over the course of the past five centuries which is promoted by Theathenae has no verifiability and is original research derived from the fact that the Arvanites have been in the area which is now Greece (when they moved it was part of the Ottoman Empire) for about five hundred years. That does not mean that it has evolved on its own. According to the HHRC report cited above, all Arvanites were called Albanians and identified as such until the establishment of a Greek state, when they were subject to hellenisation. The Greek state was established in 1830, so Arvanitika was only isolated from mainstream Albanian for about 175 years. This is of course original research on my part, but so is Theathenae's. That is why it is my argument that neither should be used. Theathenae again rejects this.
 * I say that Most Arvanites strongly dislike being called Albanians, but the Arvanites of North-Western Greece do identify as Albanians and call themselves Σ̈κ̇ιπτάρε̰ Shqiptarë. This statement is true according to the HHRC's report I have cited above and therefore is verifiable and can be used in the article. Theathenae removes it in favour of They strongly dislike their language being called "Albanian" and also resent being called Albanians. This is misleading and inaccurate and is obviously a blatant attempt to suppress he fact that the Arvanites of North-western Greece (Epirus and Western Macedonia) do identify as Albanians. I fail to see why he wants to remove such an accurate statement (which gives an accurate view of the situation in the Arvanitic Community as described by the HHRC report).

 * As I have become tired of constant edit wars and harsh arguments etc I finally gave up and violated Wikipedia's no original research policy and drew a distinction between the two groups of Arvanites: the ones who identify as Albanians and the ones who do not. I incorporated the Albanian identifying Arvanites into the Albanians article (check diff) calling them The Orthodox Christian Albanian minority, which is located in North-western Greece and has been there since the Middle Ages. Their number is estimated at about 30,000. While de facto, it is true it is still original research and lacks proper verifiability as all sources call these people Arvanites.
 * I think that my display of willingness to compromise and good faith are overwhelming. In this case, I don't have the behaviour problem, but Theathenae does (something which appears to be a popular misconception around here). When I invited him to talk so that we could resolve this dispute, he never answered; he would blank out his talk page. Check diff 1 diff 2. As you will have undoubtedly noticed by now, I have made attempts to compromise and invitations to discuss and to reach a consensus. Theathenae obviously wishes not to (I still fail to see why my behaviour is being considered here and not his) and will consider nothing less than his POV. If one were to check his entry in the Block Log, he/she would notice that he has a slightly longer record of Wikipedia policy violating than myself and in conjunction with the fact that his Swedish user Arvanítis has been banned from the Swedish Wikipedia for POV pushing, we can assume that his behaviour has been scrutinised before with unfavourable results.

Another major problem in these disputes was the verbal conduct of most parties. As these disputes have been going on for so long, over time all parties became frustrated and personal attacks became common on both sides. A similar conduct was observed on Talk:Macedonia (Slav). Over time, I have been called diff a far-right Albanian nationalist, diff someone with narrow-minded far-right Albanian fanaticism, and Albanau was equated with the UÇK. In this one, the personal attack was in Greek, but it still was a personal attack. Here I am being called an Albanian extremist. Here, I am (amongst others) being ridiculed because I am from a former-Communist Eastern European country. Of course these are just isolated examples taken out of context and I understand that because I have made my fair share of personal attacks, I do not have the right to complain about the ones made against me. I am just pointing out that personal attacks can be found on both sides, so it is not just my behaviour which is worthy of being considered for PA, but many other people who are in these disputes. I would also like you to take into consideration as aspect of Theathenae's behaviour which could accurately be called double standards. He professes on Talk:Arvanites that the Arvanites are being named against their will by calling a minority group of Arvanites Albanians (which is what they call themselves), but on Talk:Macedonia (Slav) he couldn't care less that the ethnic group discussed dislike being called Macedonian Slavs and call themselves Macedonians, but he insists on calling them Macedonian Slavs. In other words, the principle of calling a people a name against their will is bad in some articles, but it is allowed on others. Again, in the Talk:Macedonia (Slav) dispute his views are not backed by reliable sources nor Wikipedia policy, whereas mine are.
 * Anyway, my whole point here is to demonstrate here that it is not fair to just consider my behaviour, when the same kind of behaviour can be found on other users, especially when taking into consideration that the arguments put forward by me and my edits were fully compatible with Wikipedia policy as opposed to theirs which was not (ie they have violated more policies) and I have actually tried to solve this dispute and displayed good faith and they won't even co-operate. In other words, there is worse behaviour out there than mine, and I don't believe that it would be fair to just consider mine. A solution for all these problems in general should be found (perhaps forbidding personal attacks as it has been suggested by various users). REX 18:01, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Statement by party 2
Please limit your statement to 500 words

Statement by
I've intervened in this little brawl a couple of times, at first to deal with a page protection issue, latterly to kill an edit war-cum-shouting match with a brief block to the participants.

Against my feelings that I should be more discreet and get involved less in arbcom cases, I've been asked to intervene and put the case for dismissal, a case which believe in very strongly.

This is a piddling little dispute, mainly a matter of breakdown of good faith and communication between theathenae, REX and a third party who hasn't been mentioned here. Fred Bauder may well have a point that some Greeks find REX's description of the Arvanitic language as a dialect of albanian insulting, and I'm not a linguistics expert so I cannot say whether it has any merit.

Whatever that may be, the parties haven't even begun to explore the possibilities of dispute resolution yet. They're not well versed in Wikipedia policy and I suspect that nobody has really sat down and explained to them that they're expected to do anything other than scream and throw things at one another if they have a difference of opinion. This is abominable behavior, but doesn't appear to involve malice, but rather an unfamiliarity with the territory in which they find themselves.

I had decided to work with these people and try to bring them through this to a mutually satisfactory conclusion. I think I have had some limited success; the edit war has died down and I think they're likely to listen to advice. I need more time and it cannot work if an arbitration case is brought. Please grant me that time. The committee should not be getting involved in affairs where there are still editors of good faith and proven skills willing to try to heal the situation without the huge and potentially damaging upheaval of an investigation. The committee has also, if I may say so, taken on a huge caseload for itself in the past couple of weeks. Even though there may soon be more mid-term appointments, this case would in my opinion be an unnecessary burden on an already overloaded committee.

I ask the committee to reject this case.

Statement by party 4 -
I was trying to gather some evidence on my user page. I didn't wanted this to end in RFArb and I've tried many other ways to solve these. I've asked in the past various admins to help me regarding personal attacks by. I've also contacted. I believe he presumed bad faith for me. I want to clear my name and leave this project. I'm too frustrated to do anything - gather evidence, support my case, proove that there was indeed a census in Arvanites, etc. I believe Mr Tony Sidaway has misused his admin priviledges, when he blocked me while I wasn't even editing. I've requested for an apology. I can't find where he warned me or the other two users. Probably he should apologise to REX and Theathenae too. Someday someone will show what happened in Arvanites. I just want to clear my name. +MATIA ☎ 22:00, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

What I've gathered so far is on my userpage. +MATIA ☎ 22:02, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

I've stated many times in the past that I don't want REX to be blocked, and this haven't changed. I apologise for the lack of proper structure and good wording of my statement, but I'm unable to write an essay tonite. +MATIA ☎ 23:30, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Statement by MarkSweep (uninvolved party)
I was briefly involved as an administrator in the debate on Talk:Arvanites, instating page protection, and trying to get the three main parties to work out their dispute. As I understand it, the content debate is actually quite simple to resolve: all parties should refrain from insisting that their terminology and their version of the facts is the absolute truth. The NPOV alternative is quite simple: describe all relevant viewpoints fairly and neutrally, to the extent that they can be verifiably attributed to reliable sources. While cultural identity in the Balkans is a touchy subject, Wikipedia contributors have successfully dealt with many other subjects that are just as hard or harder.

While the content dispute would seem to be rather minor and not something the ArbCom is expected to get involved in, the fact that the debate is so drawn out and bitter indicates that there's a serious problem here with the behavior of the three main parties. Their exchanges are characterized by name-calling, abusive remarks, filibustering, accusations of lying and general lack of good faith, etc., and the whole debate seems to be going in circles while drawing in more and more pages (most recently WP:AN and WP:AN/I). Revert paroles and personal attack paroles, perhaps even as part of a preliminary injunction, may be in order. --MarkSweep ✍ 09:41, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Statement by Chronographos (tangentially involved party)
REX repeatedly engages in disruptive behavior: firstly he probably edits under at least two accounts, REX and Rexhep Bojaxhiu, and possibly a third one, GrandfatherJoe. A glance at the respective "three" editors' contributions is most revealing. I wonder how the aforementioned possible sockpuppetry should best be investigated. I could go on and on about his particular "style", but it all pales into insignificance in view of his latest transgression.
 * As you may know, there is a rather bitter dispute going on, regarding the articles about the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian Slavs ethnic group and related matters and articles. Since rivalling POV's, mainly expressing views predominant in the various Balkan countries, have been clashing without many signs of compromise, the titles of the two articles were settled by two editor polls, one in November 2003 and one in June 2005.
 * Since the June 2005 poll there has been a Request for Comments (which attracted very little outside attention), and talk about a Request for Mediation (without a firm conclusion so far). In other words, dispute resolution has not been too successful, so far.  And then came REX who, in association with Bomac, arbitrarily decided to move the Macedonian Slavs article by sequentially redirecting it to Macedonians (ethnicity), Macedonians (ethnic group) and Macedonians (nation), all within approximately 60 minutes, the title of the Macedonian Slavs article being of course at the very heart of the dispute in the first place.
 * Also, this technique of using sockpuppets and "minor edits" is one of the many that REX has used in order to evade a 3RR block, in addition to being an action that contradicts the June 2005 editor poll and the ongoing efforts at dispute resolution. He has repeatedly engaged in revert wars (using the aforementioned techniques) while challenging his "opponents" to break the 3RR rule and be blocked (he promptly reports them if they take the bait). Chronographos 15:51, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Hardly anything that Chronographos has said above is true. I admit that Rexhep Bojaxhiu is my sockpuppet and I have always done so. The sockpuppet sign has always been at the head of the user page. I have taken into consideration the policy on sockpuppets and while using a second account is not encouraged, if it is not used to double vote in polls or to violate the 3RR or to impersonate another user (I have always had the sockpuppet sign on the user page), I am not violating the policy. I reject the accusation of having anything to do with GrandfatherJoe. I would also like to say that I did not decide to move the Macedonian Slavs page and did not move it in the first place (or mastermind it), but I engaged in the edit war by chance, just like Chronographos and Miskin did. As regards to Chronographos's latest accusation, I would like to say that it is untrue and that that can be ascertained by the fact that he has not provided any supporting diffs and has taken my behaviour out of context and made wide generalisations. My behaviour on that talk page resembles the behaviour of everybody else (including Chronographos) and I would also like to point out that I have never violated the 3RR or challenged any other users to violate it using any of the tactics mentioned by Chronographos. I have only violated the rule once and have been blocked for 24 hours accordingly. As for his accusation of disruptive behaviour, I would like to point out that on Talk:Macedonian Slavs, I am the one (amongst others) who accepted and promoted the idea of mediation as a means of solving this dispute and Chronographos (amongst others) rejected the proposal for trivial reasons. I would like to condemn Chronographos's statement as grossly inaccurate, misleading, irrelevant to this case and untrue in many areas. REX 18:48, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Statement by semi-involved party GrandfatherJoe
I would like to inform the arbitration committee that this case is not as simple as it may appear to be. This request is part of a dispute that extends over many pages including Macedonian Slavs, Macedonia (region), Republic of Macedonia, Albanian language, Albanians, Albania, Kosovo and Arvanitika. This dispute seems to be ethnically motivated with people from various Balkan nationalities attempting to force their views on the intertwined issues on the pages. Firstly, I would like to make quite clear that the behaviour of all parties is unacceptable. There have been edit wars, personal attacks of a political and a racist nature from all sides. In my opinion, the problem lies in the fact that all parties are refusing to listen to each other and only think that what they want to say is right. If one was to glance at the talk pages of the aforementioned articles, they would notice a series of personal attacks and clear signs of unwillingness to listen to each other. There have been incidents of sock puppetry (I have even been accused of being a sock puppet) and flouting of Wikipedias rules regarding reverts (the 3RR). In my opinion, the arbitration committee should come up with a way to include all POVs and not simply enforce one. I also think that forbidding personal attacks wouldn't hurt. These disputes have been going on for too long and they all are motivated by nationalism. Needless to remind you that World War I was triggered by Balkan nationalism. GrandfatherJoe (talk • contribs) 07:33, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Statement by tangentially involved party FlavrSavr
I'm not directly involved in the Arvanites dispute, but I am involved in the Macedonian Slavs dispute. It is true that REX, Matia, and Theathenae were engaged in series of personal attacks, and I have discouraged them to do that. Regardless who started, they should stop it. I don't know much about the Arvanites dispute - the majority of them dislikes being called Albanians. However, according to this report (provided by REX), this does not apply to the Arvanites in Nortwestern Greece. As for their language, on the net, I really haven't found any reference to it as a language separate from Albanian. If there are such sources, they should have been presented in the talk page. There is much sensitivity in this issue that should be taken into consideration, but that won't change the fact that the vast majority of linguists refers to their tongue as a dialect/variety of Albanian. (See NPOV). That doesn't mean that they regard themselves/are as ethnic Albanians, and I don't see any attempt to label them such. The Macedonian Slavs article is another case. Wikipedia actually has a specific policy on this matter - Naming conflict. The vast majority of foreign sources and encyclopedias refers to them as "Macedonians" (their self-identifying term), while Theathenae, somewhat ironically, does not find the need to defend their right to be labeled against their will, in this case. --FlavrSavr 17:09, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Statement by tangentially involved party Bomac
As FlavrSavr, I too am not directly involved in the Arvanites dispute, but I am involved in the Macedonian Slavs dispute. About Arvanites in Northwestern Greece, it is obvious (and more than that) that many sources are referring to them as related to Albanians (Helsinki report). The same goes for their language: it is not a separate language from Albanian. So, we should trust the various experts about this issue, and not some amateur natonalists. Now, about Macedonian Slavs. I think that I, REX and some other users made signifficant steps towards ending this dispute. We've changed the first Image that was "insulting" for some (mainly Greek) users, we've let them to erase the number of Macedonians in Greece etc., and still they find smth. that doesn't serves them well. I am getting the view that only I, REX and others want to end this dispute, and other users (I must first mention Chronographos, who is extremely unpolite, then Theathenae etc.) are only there to provoke and quarrel. They are not doing anything constructive. Their weapon is only attacking and quarreling. My opinion is that this request for arbitraton for REX is really non-sence and not fair. Regards. Bomac 11:34, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Statement by semi-involved party Miskin
Regards. Miskin 15:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * About the Arvanites: What most people (especially Albanians) fail to realise is that today there's no such thing as "Arvanites", there's only Greeks of Arvanite origin. Why? Because the so-called "Arvanites" choose to believe so. In fact it would be an insult for any Greek of such origin not to be regarded as Greek, especially because Albanian nationalists would want so. Similarly, it would be an insult for a French of Brittany to be regarded as British rather than French. In other words I think of this as a rather fundamental concept that only extremist minds choose to misinterpret.
 * About Arvanitika: As wikipedia and any other encyclopedia defines it, the criteria used to draw a line between a language and a dialect are socio-linguistic and not plainly linguistic. I'm not familiar with the Arvanite language, but I'm familiar with what "Arvanite people" and I know what they think about their grandfathers' language and about themselves. In that respect I don't have a linguistic opinion on the subject but I have a social one. What is factual: The people that Albanians call Arvanites do not recognise themselves as an Albanian ethnic group, do not claim any ethnic affiliations to Albania, do not consider that their language is a dialect of Albanian, and regard themselves ethnically Greek (as they're regarded by others). In that respect, wikipedia is obliged to consider Arvanitika as a separate language, otherwise Croatian should be regarded as a dialect of Serbian, Macedonian Slavic as a dialect of Bulgarian etc, etc. Albanian POV is ridiculously trying to force an Albanian ethnic status on an ethnically Greek population.
 * About REX: I may be wrong, but I've never seen this user making edits that are not part of an ethnic edit-war in which Greek people are involved. Like I said, I may be wrong. All I know is that him and User:Bomac have been almost vandalising the article Macedonian Slavs by trying to pass ridiculous POVs and move its name to Macedonians (by force). The existence of such editors is that evidence that wikipedia can never be trusted when it comes down to ethnic articles. Anyone can edit and admins are sick of protecting, therefore the person who has the most free time to waste will win the edit-war (by being on the internet 20 hours a day).

Comment: In regard to Miskin's statement on the Arvanites according to the HHRC's Report and the UNESCO as well as Britannica and Encarta (on the Albanian language article, but you can't see it without paying a fee) he is wrong. My edits can be seen at this diff and they are explained fully above and it is also explained why they are fully compatible with Wikipedia policy and should be used. He obviously didn't read it because he is accusing me of things I have never done. As for his accusation of me never having made edits that are not part of an ethnic edit-war in which Greek people are involved, I say take a look at these edits on Greece related articles (I see no signs of hate, do you?): I believe that it is perfectly clear that I am NOT waging an ethnic edit-war, as Miskin puts it, against Greeks, I have valuable and NPOV edits to Greece-related articles, and I believe that this is an indication of Good Faith against the Greeks or against any nationality. If anyone were to check my contributions they would notice that I do not focus solely on Balkan issues ar just Greece related articles. Given that Miskin's statement was a cheap mud-throwing meant to defocus the issues and try to conceal the fact that Miskin considers anyone who disagrees with his views has to be anti-Greek. I would like to remind you of my "proven" statement above. The evidence that my behaviour shouldn't be considered here, but Theathenae's is overwhelming. Actually the first personal attack came from him (check edit summary, he calls Albanau an Albanian extremist) and that lead to a chain reaction of retaliations. Before that personal attack of his there were NO personal attacks, on the talk page, or anywhere else. His disruptive behaviour has been scrutinised before. His identity on the Swedish Wikipedia, sv:Användare:Arvanítis has been banned (check Block log) for promoting what the Swedish administrators have called pro-grekisk propaganda (ie Pro-Greek Propaganda). People say that my edits are pro-Albanian POV. That is not true as I have demonstrated above, as my edits are just the truth. There is no attempt to conceal facts or promote true facts. I have just demonstrated (with evidence) that Miskin's statement is predominantly untrue and misleading. It's not fair that my behaviour is being placed under scrutiny here while there is worse behaviour going on on the same pages. It is also not fair that the accusations against me are being concealed by the arbitrators. How am I supposed to defend myself adequately against accusations I don't know? I have asked each arbitrator what I was being accused of, and NO ONE would (or could) tell me. Every other arbitration case has specific accusations against the "defendant", why not me? Why am I being subject to such unfair treatment? REX 17:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * diff: I added the phonetics infoboxes on to the Greek language article. They were highly thought of and are still there today. I also added a series of examples of Greek with full IPA pronunciation guide.
 * diff: I conformed the article Greek language to the standard language form (ie general reorganization) and added links to the phonetics infoboxes. Widely accepted and still in use today.
 * diff: I added the Greek alphabet links. Widely accepted and still in use today.
 * diff: I add a sample of the Nicene Creed in Greek. In polytonic text, very time consuming to prepare and extremely hard to write (most letters are inserted from the Symbols on Microsoft Word). Widely accepted and still in use today.

Comments on Comments: The articles you linked by Britannica and Encarta pretty much summarised what I just explained to you. Linguistically Arvanitika does undoubtly stem from Albanian, but whether it's going to be officially regarded as its dialect, depends solely to its speakers, and not to you. As the Helsinki report states, the Greeks of Arvanite origin abhor having their language called "Albanian", which pretty much settles the discussion here. Similarly the Griko-speaking community of Southern Italy would have every right to regard its speech as a separate language from Greek, but for historical reason it doesn't choose to do so. However the Arvanite-speaking community of Greece does choose to consider Arvanitika as a separate language (and your own sources verify this), therefore wikipedia is obliged to do so and there's nothing you can do about it. In fact I don't even know why we're still discussing this. Personally I regards parts of the Helsinki report heavily biased, e.g. the part where it points out how Arvanitika is never taught in Greek schools, implying that the Greek government is trying to kill the language (when in reality it has obtained a status of an endangered language). As for you attempt to camouflage all the petty-vandalism you've been occasionally causing to ethnic articles, it almost makes you sound as greasy as a real lawyer. You can fool some people some times, but you can't fool all the people all the times. Miskin 16:06, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Statement by tangentially involved party Macedonian

 * As FlavrSavr, Bomac and several others, I was not much included in the issue of Arvanites, but I am involved in the Macedonians (Macedonian Slavs) dispute and several others concerning modern Macedonia.
 * About Arvanites in Northwestern Greece, I am definitly not an expert on the field. But, I know that they are reffered to as people with clear Albanian origin who speak Albanian related language. The proofs about this are more than clear for anyone who is neutral on this issue.
 * The only family I personaly have met that identifies itself with the term "Arvanites" is a rich family from Solun (Thesaloniki), whose name I would only reveal to some administrator (if needed), who can promise me they to stay anonimous. Even the youngest member of that family, who is about 20 years old explained to me clearly that he is Greek with Albanian origin. So, all my comments on this issue will go in favor of this comment. I beleive that everybody has a right of self identification, which is actually one of the most basic human rights.
 * Here, I would like to stress something, that I think that should be strongly considered in this (and any following) case concerning the minorities in Greece (no matter are we talking about Albanians, Macedonians, Turkish, Bulgarians, Roma or anyone else).
 * Greece does not recognize any mnorities in its borders (except a Muslim religious minority). It constantly denies any basic human rights to those people, using every single chance it has to assimilate them and make them forget their origin. The worse thing is that this situation last for centuries. And, besides the constant reports which strongly criticise the Greek politics and behaviour on this issue, nothing has be done to fix this terible unjustice.
 * Greece is a place where the democracy was born, but now it is the place where democracy has died.
 * I have to appologise for my strong words, but I beleive that it is unthinkable some country, which is actually a part of EU not to give any human rights to its minorities. For anyone who want to accuse me for these strong words, I would ask him first to read something more about this issue and then to make conclusions.
 * I do not want to give you direct links towards several pages that support this claim of mine. I will give a link towards google's search of +"Human rights" +"Greece":
 * http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%2B%22Human+rights%22+%2B%22Greece%22
 * Here you can find 1000s, even millions of pages considering this topic. There you can easily find what all happened and is still happening in Greece to anyone who wants to protect his own origin.
 * I strongly beleive that this arbitration is direct product of that assimilative politics from the Greek side towards anyone who wants to reveal the truth about the terrible situation of the minorities in Greece.
 * Actually, these disputes about the 2 topics topics ("Arvanites" and "Macedonians") are both motivated with one single goal: To hide that Greece actually has numerous population of non-Greek origin. I would like to ask anyone who is included in this arbitration to pick some more knowledge on these 2 topics in order to have a clear picture of the problem.
 * I am sure that you have noticed, but I have to stress that out again... REX is only attacked by users which have clear Greek origin, which are only trying to push their own POV (despite the numerous sources which oppose it). REX's only sin is that he promotes the truth about the country that he also originates from (Greece). And his strong, but also provoced and most often justified reactions to the personal racial and nationalistic attacks from Theathenae and some other users towards him.
 * In my oppinion, this arbitration is motivated by one reason only: To throw dirt over the name of REX, to make him waste a lot of his time in deffending himself (instead of concentrating on real work of promoting on Wikipedia's NPOV) and finaly to make him shut up and let the Greek assimilative POV (no matter of how wrong it is) keep beeing promoted here on Wikipedia.
 * At the same end I would like to say a word or two about the Theathenae.
 * 1)This user was already banned on some Wikipedia's as a promotor of Greek POV.
 * 2) Just a part of the stile of comments of Theathenae:
 * And, when you already got a part in this conversation, explain why Greece runned away 300000 Macedonians and 100000 Bulgarians from Greece during the last 50 years, people that are still not alowed to enter Greece? Why did you burn my grandfathers house and shoot at him?
 * I sterbinski 17:23, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Because I didn't like his face. What are you gonna do about it?--Theathenae 18:31, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * What??? Theathenae? Is that a response??? I am calling the admin to react on this. Ivica83 19:15, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I am sure that you have noticed, but I have to stress that out again... REX is only attacked by users which have clear Greek origin, which are only trying to push their own POV (despite the numerous sources which oppose it). REX's only sin is that he promotes the truth about the country that he also originates from (Greece). And his strong, but also provoced and most often justified reactions to the personal racial and nationalistic attacks from Theathenae and some other users towards him.
 * In my oppinion, this arbitration is motivated by one reason only: To throw dirt over the name of REX, to make him waste a lot of his time in deffending himself (instead of concentrating on real work of promoting on Wikipedia's NPOV) and finaly to make him shut up and let the Greek assimilative POV (no matter of how wrong it is) keep beeing promoted here on Wikipedia.
 * At the same end I would like to say a word or two about the Theathenae.
 * 1)This user was already banned on some Wikipedia's as a promotor of Greek POV.
 * 2) Just a part of the stile of comments of Theathenae:
 * And, when you already got a part in this conversation, explain why Greece runned away 300000 Macedonians and 100000 Bulgarians from Greece during the last 50 years, people that are still not alowed to enter Greece? Why did you burn my grandfathers house and shoot at him?
 * I sterbinski 17:23, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Because I didn't like his face. What are you gonna do about it?--Theathenae 18:31, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * What??? Theathenae? Is that a response??? I am calling the admin to react on this. Ivica83 19:15, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I sterbinski 17:23, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Because I didn't like his face. What are you gonna do about it?--Theathenae 18:31, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * What??? Theathenae? Is that a response??? I am calling the admin to react on this. Ivica83 19:15, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Here is a link that proves that this is Theathenae's comment: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Macedonia&diff=prev&oldid=20711858
 * I would like to add that somewhere before I used the nickname I_sterbinski, but latter I gave it for someone else to use it. The comment mentioned above is not mine, but I completely share that oppinion and simphatise with the tragedy of 1000s of Macedonian (and other) families that were runned away from Greece just because of their non-Greek identity.
 * This arbitration is just another assimilation attempt by Theathenae. It is up to you will you support it. Macedonian 02:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I would like to add that somewhere before I used the nickname I_sterbinski, but latter I gave it for someone else to use it. The comment mentioned above is not mine, but I completely share that oppinion and simphatise with the tragedy of 1000s of Macedonian (and other) families that were runned away from Greece just because of their non-Greek identity.
 * This arbitration is just another assimilation attempt by Theathenae. It is up to you will you support it. Macedonian 02:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Clarification: The first personal attack came from User:Theathenae (check edit summary, he calls Albanau an Albanian extremist) and that lead to a chain reaction of retaliations. Before that personal attack of his there were NO personal attacks, on the talk page, or anywhere else. His disruptive behaviour has been scrutinised before. His identity on the Swedish Wikipedia, sv:Användare:Arvanítis has been banned (check Block log) for promoting what the Swedish administrators have called pro-grekisk propaganda (ie Pro-Greek Propaganda). People say that my edits are pro-Albanian POV, check my 'additional statement' above where a diff withe every point of differnce can be seem and all mine are accounted for in compliance with Wikipedia's policies. REX 12:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (4/0/0/0)

 * Reject, I might entertain a complaint against for repeatedly insisting on referring to a language used by Greeks as "Albanian" (which I know to be insulting), but in the absence of input by  making such a complaint and in consideration of our considerable docket, I will refrain. As Stephen Gaskin a spiritual teacher once said. "When you are wrong; quit" Fred Bauder 15:21, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept to consider the behavior of Fred Bauder 19:29, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept as with Fred. James F. (talk) 23:12, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept as with Fred ➥the Epopt 13:54, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept. Kelly Martin 11:17, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Temporary injunction (none)
=Final decision=

Neutral point of view
1) Neutral point of view contemplates that nationalist perspectives of both minority and majority groups should be included in Wikipedia articles.

 * Passed 6-0

No personal attacks
2) No personal attacks forbids personal attacks. As applied to this case, as editors with a nationalistic point of view are welcome to contribute that point of view, it is inappropriate to attack them for holding such views, or to bait or badger them with respect to those views.

 * Passed 6-0

Probation
3) Editors who are unable or unwilling to conform to Wikipedia policies with respect to issues which arise with respect to certain articles may be temporarily or permanently banned from editing those articles.

 * Passed 6-0

Focus of dispute
1) The nominal focus of this dispute is the articles Arvanites and Arvanitic language. The nominal dispute is over whether the Arvanitic language is to be characterized as a language in its own right or as a dialect of Albanian language.

 * Passed 6-0

Personal attacks
2) Matia.gr, Theathenae, and REX have made personal attacks regarding each other with respect to nationalistic attitudes, see Requests_for_arbitration/REX/Workshop

 * Passed 6-0

Personal attack parole
1) Matia.gr, Theathenae, and REX are placed on personal attack parole.

 * Passed 6-0

Enforcement by ban
1) The personal attack parole may be enforced by brief bans, up to a week in the case of repeat offenses.

 * Passed 6-0

title: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/REX


text:
User:Shigami

This is my user page

this is my webpage

Webpage

I like to help others

I love history

and art and computers are my passion

--Shigami 20:45, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Shigami


text: Wikipedia:Shortpages/Short pages2

title: Wikipedia:Shortpages/Short pages2


text:
Misumenops

Misumenops is a common genus of crab spider with more than 50 described species.

The majority of the species of Misumenops, more than 80, have been transferred to 13 genera: Ansiea, Demogenes, Diaea, Ebelingia, Ebrechtella, Henriksenia, Heriaeus, Mecaphesa, Micromisumenops , Misumena, Misumenoides, Misumessus, and Runcinioides.

Distribution
Most species of this genus occur in the Americas from Canada to Argentina, with only a few exceptions:
 * Sixteen species are found on Hawaii, one (M. dalmasi) on the Marquesas Islands, one M. melloloitaoi on Tahiti, and one M. rapaensis on Easter Island.
 * Two species (M. forcatus and M. zhangmuensis) occur in China, M. armatus in Central Asia, M. turanicus in Uzbekistan, M. khandalaensis in India, M. morrisi on the Philippines.
 * M. rubrodecoratus occurs in Africa, M. decolor only in Ethiopia.

Name
The genus name is derived from the related crab spider genus Misumena and the Greek ending ops "looks like". This ending is often used to denote closely related or similar looking genera.

Species
, the World Spider Catalog accepted the following species:

 * Misumenops anachoretus (Holmberg, 1876) – Argentina
 * Misumenops armatus Spassky, 1952 – Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan
 * Misumenops bellulus (Banks, 1896) – USA, Cuba, Jamaica, Virgin Is., Dominica
 * Misumenops biannulipes (Mello-Leitão, 1929) – Brazil
 * Misumenops bivittatus (Keyserling, 1880) – Brazil, Uruguay
 * Misumenops callinurus Mello-Leitão, 1929 – Brazil
 * Misumenops candidoi (Caporiacco, 1948) – Guyana
 * Misumenops carneus Mello-Leitão, 1944 – Argentina
 * Misumenops conspersus (Keyserling, 1880) – Peru
 * Misumenops consuetus (Banks, 1898) – Mexico
 * Misumenops croceus (Keyserling, 1880) – Colombia to Paraguay
 * Misumenops cruentatus (Walckenaer, 1837) – USA
 * Misumenops curadoi Soares, 1943 – Brazil
 * Misumenops decolor (Kulczyński, 1901) – Ethiopia
 * Misumenops delmasi Berland, 1927 – Marquesas Is.
 * Misumenops fluminensis Mello-Leitão, 1929 – Brazil
 * Misumenops forcatus Song & Chai, 1990 – China
 * Misumenops gibbosus (Blackwall, 1862) – Brazil
 * Misumenops gracilis (Keyserling, 1880) – Mexico
 * Misumenops guianensis (Taczanowski, 1872) – Venezuela, Brazil, French Guiana, Paraguay
 * Misumenops haemorrhous Mello-Leitão, 1949 – Brazil
 * Misumenops hunanensis Yin, Peng & Kim, 2000 – China
 * Misumenops ignobilis (Badcock, 1932) – Paraguay, Argentina
 * Misumenops khandalaensis Tikader, 1965 – India
 * Misumenops lacticeps (Mello-Leitão, 1944) – Argentina
 * Misumenops lenis (Keyserling, 1880) – Brazil
 * Misumenops longispinosus (Mello-Leitão, 1949) – Brazil
 * Misumenops maculissparsus (Keyserling, 1891) (type species) – Brazil, Argentina
 * Misumenops melloleitaoi Berland, 1942 – French Polynesia (Society Is.: Tahiti, Moorea)
 * Misumenops mexicanus (Keyserling, 1880) – Mexico
 * Misumenops morrisi Barrion & Litsinger, 1995 – Philippines
 * Misumenops ocellatus (Tullgren, 1905) – Bolivia, Argentina
 * Misumenops octoguttatus Mello-Leitão, 1941 – Argentina
 * Misumenops pallens (Keyserling, 1880) – Guatemala to Argentina
 * Misumenops pallidus (Keyserling, 1880) – Colombia to Argentina
 * Misumenops pascalis (O. Pickard-Cambridge, 1891) – Panama
 * Misumenops punctatus (Keyserling, 1880) – Peru
 * Misumenops rapaensis Berland, 1934 – Austral Is. (Rapa)
 * Misumenops robustus Simon, 1929 – Venezuela, Peru, Brazil
 * Misumenops roseofuscus Mello-Leitão, 1944 – Argentina
 * Misumenops rubrodecoratus Millot, 1942 – Sub-Saharan Africa
 * Misumenops schiapelliae Mello-Leitão, 1944 – Argentina
 * Misumenops silvarum Mello-Leitão, 1929 – Brazil
 * Misumenops spinifer (Piza, 1937) – Brazil
 * Misumenops spinitarsis Mello-Leitão, 1932 – Brazil
 * Misumenops spinulosissimus (Berland, 1936) – Cape Verde Is.
 * Misumenops splendens (Keyserling, 1880) – Mexico
 * Misumenops temibilis (Holmberg, 1876) – Chile, Argentina
 * Misumenops temihana Garb, 2007 – French Polynesia (Society Is.)
 * Misumenops turanicus Charitonov, 1946 – Uzbekistan
 * Misumenops variegatus (Keyserling, 1880) – Peru
 * Misumenops varius (Keyserling, 1880) – Colombia
 * Misumenops zeugma Mello-Leitão, 1929 – Brazil
 * Misumenops zhangmuensis (Hu & Li, 1987) – China

title: Misumenops


text:
Positive accounting

Positive accounting is the branch of academic accounting research that seeks to explain and predict actual accounting practices. This contrasts with normative accounting, that seeks to derive and prescribe "optimal" accounting standards.

Background
Positive accounting emerged with empirical studies that proliferated in accounting in the late 1960s. It was organized as an academic school of thought of discipline by the work of Ross Watts and Jerold Zimmerman (in 1978 and 1986) at the William E. Simon School of Business Administration at the University of Rochester, and by the founding of the Journal of Accounting and Economics in 1979. When published, the pioneering articles were greeted with considerable criticism.

Views
Positive accounting can be associated with the contractual view of the firm. The firm is viewed as “a nexus of contracts” and accounting one tool to facilitate the formation and performance of contracts. Under this view, accounting practices evolve to mitigate contracting costs by establishing ex ante agreement among varying parties. For example, positive accounting postulates that conservatism in accounting –in this sense defined conditionally as requiring lower (higher) standards of verifiability to recognize losses (gains)– has origins in contract markets, including managerial compensation contracts and lender debt contracts. As an example, absent conservatism, managerial compensation agreements may reward managers based on current reports that later evidence indicates were unwarranted.

The contractual view of positive accounting puts it in tension with value relevance studies in accounting: the latter contend that accounting’s primary role is to value the firm, and thus practices like conservatism are sub-optimal. The value relevance school emphasizes the usefulness of accounting information to equity investors in contrast to its usefulness in contracting exercises.

Efficiency perspective
The efficiency perspective is taken into Positive Accounting theory as researchers explain how various managers choose accounting methods that show a true representation of the firm's performance. Within this perspective, it is stated by numerous authors that accounting practices adopted by firms are often explained on the basis showing the true image of financial performance of the firm.

Opportunistic perspective
The opportunistic perspective holds the view that managers, who are agents to the principal, act to their self-interests. They only adopt accounting policies that allow them to gain, in the view that the firm also gains. Different types of hypotheses exist such as political cost, bonus plan and debt hypothesis that show what motives make the managers choose one accounting method over another.

Management compensation hypothesis (Bonus plan hypothesis)
The management compensation hypothesis states that managers who have accounting incentives, or remuneration that is tied up with the firm's accounting performance, will tend to manipulate accounting method and figures to show the accounting performance better than it should be. For example, such managers may elect to use different depreciation method allowing lower profits at the start and higher profits towards the end. Older managers will tend to ignore any research and development costs because it will lower current year profits affecting their income.

Debt-equity hypothesis
The debt/equity hypothesis states that managers will tend to show better profits (similar to the bonus plan/management compensation hypothesis) with the intention of having a better performance and liquidity position to pay the interest and principal of the debt they have accumulated in the business. The higher the debt/equity level the more likely it is that the managers will tend to use accounting methods and procedures in increasing accounting profit.

Political cost hypothesis
The political cost hypothesis asserts that firms will employ various accounting methods to show lower profits so as not to attract the attention of politicians, who have an eye on high-profit industries and will place higher regulation on high-earning firms.

Criticisms

 * 1)  It does not provide any prescription, it does not state what ought to happen, rather explains and predicts what would happen, which is the aim of positive accounting theory and this is insufficient
 * 2)  It is not value-free because it only explains and predicts what people might do, ignoring altogether on what they should do.
 * 3)  It assumes that every manager's (agent) and owner's (principal) actions have a self-interest motive, with the primary goal of maximizing their own wealth without considering any adverse effects.
 * 4)  It is impossible to avoid value judgments in the choice of research topics and the design of research studies.

title: Positive accounting


text:
Jang Joon-hwan

Jang Joon-hwan (born January 18, 1970) is a South Korean film director.

Life and career
A graduate of Sungkyunkwan University, Jang's first directing job was on the 1994 short film 2001 Imagine. His feature-length debut was the science fiction film Save the Green Planet! (2003), considered one of the most unique and original films in the history of Korean cinema. Jang won Best Director at the 4th Busan Film Critics Awards, and the Special Silver St. George for Best Director at the 25th Moscow International Film Festival.

He directed two more short films Hair (2004), and Love for Sale (2010, as part of the omnibus Camellia, about the past, present and future of the city Busan). Then in 2013, Jang's long-awaited second feature film was released, a revenge thriller titled Hwayi: A Monster Boy.

The year 2017, he directed political thriller film titled 1987: When the Day Comes. The film was a critical and commercial success, and won best director and best film in 9th KOFRA Film Awards and 39th Blue Dragon Film Awards for best film.

Personal life
Jang married actress Moon So-ri on December 24, 2006.

Filmography

 * 1987: When the Day Comes (2017) - director
 * The Running Actress (2017) - actor
 * Hwayi: A Monster Boy (화이, 2013) - director
 * Waiting for Jang Joon-hwan (장준환을 기다리며, short film, 2012) - cameo
 * Love for Sale (segment from omnibus Camellia 카멜리아, 2010) - director
 * Two or Three Things I Know about Kim Ki-young (감독들, 김기영을 말하다, documentary, 2006) - cast
 * Hair (털, short film, 2004) - director, screenplay
 * Save the Green Planet! (지구를 지켜라!, 2003) - director, screenplay
 * Phantom: the Submarine (유령, 1999) - screenplay
 * Motel Cactus (모텔 선인장, 1997) - assistant director
 * Boong-boong (short film, 1996) - cinematography
 * Transmutated Head (변질헤드, short film, 1996) - cinematography
 * The Love of a Grape Seed (포도 씨앗의 사랑, short film, 1994) - cinematography
 * Sounds from Heaven and Earth (하늘소리 땅소리, short film, 1994) - cinematography
 * 2001 Imagine (2001 이매진, short film, 1994) - director, screenplay, cast
 * Incoherence (지리멸렬, short film, 1994) - lighting
 * The Age of Success (short film, 1994) - lighting

Awards

 * 2018 55th Grand Bell Awards for Best Director
 * 2018 18th Director's Cut Awards for Best Director

title: Jang Joon-hwan


text:
Sôber

Sôber is an alternative rock band from Madrid, Spain, formed in 1994. Founded when Carlos Escobedo posted an advertisement in a local guitar store and was then contacted by Antonio Bernardini to start Sober Stoned. The band's line-up has primarily consisted of vocalist/bassist Carlos Escobedo, guitarists Jorge Escobedo and Antonio Bernardini, while going through a number of drummers. In 2002, with Alberto Madrid as drummer, the band released Paradÿsso. The album sold more than 100,000 copies. In 2004 they released Reddo, which sold more than 50,000 copies.

On 1 January 2010, the band announced their reunion with Manu Reyes as drummer.

Early years
Sôber is a band from Madrid, Spain, formed in 1994. Founded when Carlos Escobedo posted an advertisement in a local guitar store and was then contacted by Antonio Bernardini to start Sober Stoned. The band's first line-up consisted of the Escobedo brothers, Carlos and Jorge, vocals/bass and guitar, respectively. Antonio Bernardini, also guitar, and Elías Romero as the drummer. Since then the band has had a couple of drummer changes. Sôber takes its name from the literal meaning of sober, and from the song "Sober" by the band Tool, from their first album, Undertow

Torcidos
They began singing in English and in 1994 they recorded their first demo, titled Mirror’s Way, which included 5 songs. Shortly after, the band signed with their first label. The label forced them to switch from English to Spanish in the process. In 1995, ready to release their first studio album, Torcidos, the record company went bankrupt. Later in 1997, under their own label, Sober Records, they finally released Torcidos.

Morfología
The band continued working on new songs, and one of them, "La Prisión del Placer", was included in a compilation for the magazine Heavy Rock. The band started to get many calls and letters and they decided to start recording again. They ended up in Rocksoul Studios, with production done by themselves and Alberto Seara. They recorded 3 songs and send the samples to many record companies. Zero Records signed them in 1998. The band changed its name from Sober Stoned to Sôber and Luis Miguel Planelló replaced Elías Romero as drummer. Towards the end of September, they released an EP titled Condenado. In 1999, they released their second studio album, Morfología, which included songs like "Abstinencia", "Loco", "Predicador" and "La Prisión del Placer". After the recording of the album, Alberto Madrid replaced Luis Miguel Planelló as drummer.

Synthesis
In the year 2000 they released the EP Oxígeno (Ô₂), which contained songs that would later be included in their third studio album, titled Synthesis. It was produced by Oscar Clavel and recorded at Kirios and Eurosonic studios. Some of the songs include "Versus (Vs.)", "Si Me Marcho" and "Vacío". Synthesis is one of the best Pop rock albums of Spain and sold more than 30,000 copies. Shortly after, the band left Zero Records and signed with Muxxic (Gran Vía Musical).

Paradÿsso
Sôber began to become known among the rock scene and played alongside bands like Deftones, HIM, and Dover. They became the revelation group after their performance in a well-known rock festival, Festimad. In 2002, after an intense tour, they released their fourth studio album, Paradÿsso. Songs like "Diez Años" and "Paradysso" rapidly become hit songs in Spain. The album was recorded in Cube Studios by Alberto Seara and was self-produced entirely by the band, giving them the opportunity to develop their own personal ideas. The album has been the band's best, and was certified Gold and Platinum for selling more than 100,000 copies. They set off on a 2-year tour performing over 100 concerts.

Reddo
After releasing Backstage 02/03, which included 3 songs from their concert in Salamanca in 2003, the band released their fifth studio album, Reddo, which translates into "reflection" in Latin. It was again recorded and self-produced by the band in Cube Studios. It was mixed in Los Angeles by Scott Humphrey, who has worked with artists and bands like Bon Jovi and Metallica, among many others. The album went on sale in February 2004. The lyrics and the majority of the songs were composed by vocalist and bassist, Carlos Escobedo.

Separation in 2005
After more than ten years of working together, the band decided to separate for some time and take on other projects, with two new groups: Savia, (Carlos Escobedo's project with the collaboration of Alberto Madrid) and Skizoo (formed by Sôber's two guitarists, Antonio Bernandini and Jorge Escobedo). On 31 October 2005, Universal released a compilation of their greatest hits, titled Grandes Éxitos 1994–2004.

Death of Alberto Madrid
On 30 November 2006, Alberto Madrid was involved in a fatal traffic accident along the M-40 road in Madrid, Spain.

Return in 2010
After almost six years working on side projects, on 1 January 2010, the band officially announced on their website their return and the addition of Manu Reyes as drummer. The band also confirmed a tour in Spain, Mexico, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Argentina, and Chile.

Band members

 * Carlos Escobedo – Vocals / Bass
 * Jorge Escobedo – Guitar
 * Antonio Bernardini – Guitar
 * Manu Reyes – Drums

Former members

 * Elías Romero -Drums (1994–1998)
 * Luis Miguel Planelló – Drums (1998–1999)
 * Alberto Madrid (deceased) – Drums (1999–2005)

Appearance in movies and video games

 * The songs "Versus (Vs.)" and "Esfera", from the album "Synthesis", are part of the soundtrack for the Spanish film "School Killer" (2001).
 * The song "Paradÿsso", from the album of the same name, is part of the soundtrack for the Spanish film "Cosa de brujas" (2003).
 * The song "Cientos de preguntas", from the album "Reddo", is part of the soundtrack for the FIFA 2005 video game.

title: Sôber


text: Wikipedia:Shortpages/Short pages3

title: Wikipedia:Shortpages/Short pages3


text:
There's No Tomorrow

"There's No Tomorrow", written by Al Hoffman, Leo Corday and Leon Carr, is one of two popular songs based on the Italian song, "'O sole mio" (music by Eduardo di Capua). (The other was "It's Now or Never", popularized by Elvis Presley.)

The biggest hit version of the song was recorded by Tony Martin, which charted in 1949. The recording was released by RCA Victor Records as a 78rpm record (catalog number 20-3582) and a 45rpm record (catalog number 47-3078). The record first reached the Billboard chart on November 4, 1949 and lasted 27 weeks on the chart, peaking at number two.

Martin was attending a Friars Club of Beverly Hills roast for Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz on November 24, 1958, in Los Angeles. Right after comedian Harry Einstein (alias "Parkyarkarkus") brought the house down with his amusing testimonial, Einstein suddenly suffered a heart attack, slumping into Milton Berle's lap. Emcee Art Linkletter then directed Martin to sing a song to divert the crowd's attention; the singer's unfortunate choice was "There's No Tomorrow". Einstein's heart attack proved fatal, and Martin was a pallbearer at the comedian's funeral.

title: There's No Tomorrow


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/REX/Evidence

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.

As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form:.

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.

Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs, a much shorter, concise presentation is more likely to be effective. Please focus on the issues raised in the complaint and answer and on diffs which illustrate behavior which relates to the issues.

If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please cite the evidence in your own section and provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Do not edit within the evidence section of any other user.

Be aware that the Arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent. If you are a participant in the case or a third party, please don't try to refactor the page, let the Arbitrators do it. If you object to evidence which is inserted by other participants or third parties please cite the evidence and voice your objections within your own section of the page. It is especially important to not remove evidence presented by others. If something is put in the wrong place, please leave it for the arbitrators to move.

The Arbitrators may analyze evidence and other assertions at /Workshop. /Workshop provides for comment by parties and others as well as arbitrators. After arriving at proposed principles, findings of fact or remedies voting by Arbitrators takes place at /Proposed decision. Only Arbitrators may edit /Proposed decision.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

 * What happened.
 * What happened.

against me

 * stating I don't want to be called far-right-anything
 * 17:14, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 19:09, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 13:48, 11 September 2005 (UTC)
 * being called a far-right-something
 * 14:59, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 12:23, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 11:10, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
 * being called a nazi - plain-vanilla
 * 23:14, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

 * 18:44, 23 October 2005 (UTC) - brand new

 * variety of subjects
 * 11:26, 2 October 2005 (UTC) according to User:REX I have "anti-social behaviour", "hypocrisy" etc
 * falsely accussed of vandalism
 * 13:00, 27 September 2005 - REX had named the article Arvanitic language and I moved it to Arvanitika language. My edit summary: "Arvanitic language moved to Arvanitika language: The official name of this (AAT) language is Arvanitika"
 * while blocked 23:06, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

calumnies against other users

 * labels (mostly from his edit summaries I haven't checked yet his contribs of that period and I don't know if I can)
 * far-right
 * 09:47, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC) - talk page ("I can't help feeling that Wikipedia is being used to promote nationalism and (possibly misleading) propaganda in favour of Cornish Separatism" ... and a note on "Arbitration")
 * 15:23, 14 September 2005 (UTC) - edit summary ("He is probably a Scottish, Welsh or Irish nationalist")
 * 20:36, 22 September 2005 (UTC) edit summary and his edit (about Greeks)
 * invitations
 * 10:08, 30 September 2005 (UTC) - ("Greek extremists")
 * 10:11, 30 September 2005 (UTC) - ("Greek extremists" who "won't listen")
 * 8:42, 2 October 2005 (UTC) - his edit summary (again Greeks)
 * 10:19, 2 October 2005 (UTC) - nazi ("they are obviously one of these far-right Greek extremists who would rather see all Greece's minorities sent to Auschwitz...")

untitled

 * I've requested protection of Arvanitic language - ("I 'm afraid that User:REX will take his edit war regarding the already protected article Arvanites to Arvanitic language. See also Talk:Arvanites and Talk:Arvanitic language. Thanks.")
 * 20:10, 8 September 2005 (UTC) - ("MATIA this is your tactic. Abusing the system. Well both of us can play this game.")
 * 20:12, 8 September 2005 (UTC) - ("You don't have to worry, I won't take the edit-war to Arvanitic language as long as the POV message in at the heading. MATIA, You really shouldn't request protection of there is no edit war or vandalism going on.")
 * 20:47, 8 September 2005 (UTC) - continuing his edit war on Albanian language wiki.

Arvanites

 * 14:40, 26 July 2005 (UTC) - "can we say Arvanitic Albanians as we say Tosk Albanians or Gheg Albanians? "
 * 15:04, 27 September 2005 - REX moving Arvanitika language, to Arvanitika Albanian
 * 17:00, 5 October 2005 - edit summary: Tweak! Greek POV has no place on this page" - comment: a revert-war, ignoring Arvanitic POV (more comments later)
 * 14:05, 7 October 2005 - he told me later he removed these, because he believed I would object to the additions by that anonymous editor
 * 16:57, 7 October 2005 - are an ethnic group descendant from settlers from southern Albania ... blanking the phrase They strongly dislike for their language to be called "Albanian" and also resent being called "Albanians". etc

comment: while this is suppossed to be a matter of linguistics the edit-war is on the article about Arvanites and not on their language Arvanitika.

 * User:Ninio
 * 18:42, 7 October 2005 - REX reverting Ninio, misleading edit summary and removal of accurate phrases (check wiki's history for more similar examples)
 * 12:19, 7 October 2005 (UTC) - Ninio explaining to REX the problem with the figure of 180.000 Slavic speakers in Greece (I had given him links maybe 5 more times in the past)
 * 14:41, 7 October 2005 (UTC) - REX reporting Ninio for 3RR, and my comment

Arvanitika or Arvanitic language
During the last days the edit-war or whatever it should be called, has passed to Arvanitic language. +MATIA ☎ 14:19, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

more to come
I'll have to try to parse what I've gathered and post them here. I apologise again for the time I'll need. +MATIA ☎ 22:34, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I haven't gathered the needed diffs but please check Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/REX/Evidence. +MATIA ☎ 14:51, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Taxidrivers in Prague

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Merge — 3 votes merge, 1 vote keep/merge, 2 votes delete, 1 vote keep — I shall merge all suitable content into Prague and delete the article (there is no point keeping it as a redirect). --Gareth Hughes 13:42, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Taxidrivers in Prague
Non-notable, non-encylopaedic, no hard facts, nothing useful to say on the subject, WP not a manual for tourists Flapdragon 20:49, 14 October 2005 (UTC) Been watching this one for a fair while to see if it would (could) attain any value, but although subsequent edits have cleaned up the abysmal English to a large extent, it still has very little to offer. Reads like a rant combined with a manual ("Advice given to tourists") and despite the very specific title, documents nothing much more specific than a dislike of dishonest taxi-drivers, which are doubtless to be found anywhere there are tourists. No hard facts, figures or names, just unsubstantiated allegations. Very unencyclopaedic and, though I'm sorry to say it and don't want to offend a hardworking contributor, essentially worthless. Flapdragon 20:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, lots of verifiable stuff in here. Could maybe use a better title though.  JYolkowski // talk 00:18, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as informative link, or merge with Prague listing. Jtmichcock 01:29, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per Flapdragon Denni ☯ 03:44, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * This isn't very NPOV, but maybe there are a few interesting modicums that could be merged to Prague. --Jacquelyn Marie 03:55, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge into Prague after it's trimmed down to a neutral paragraph. -- Kjkolb 08:04, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge into Prague, or a new Transport in Prague article, or maybe even weak keep if more material can be found. Generally, I have deletionist tendencies, but I actually found this article interesting. Also, to me this article doesn't come across to me as a rant or as a tourist manual - the "Advice given to tourists" section provides reference material. There probably isn't enough here to justify a full article and should be pruned, but I do think some things here are worth keeping somewhere. --A bit iffy 11:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge - per Kjkolb. -- Cactus.man  ✍  09:40, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Kádár

Kádár (Hungarian, 'cooper', ) is a Hungarian surname which may refer to:

 * Ján Kadár, Slovak-Hungarian film director
 * János Kádár (1912–1989), Hungarian politician, top leader during the communist era
 * Flóra Kádár (1928–2002), Hungarian actress
 * Kálmán Kádár, Romanian water polo player of Hungarian descent
 * Matthias Kadar, a composer of German-Hungarian descent
 * Tamás Kádár, Hungarian footballer
 * Zoltán Kádár, Romanian footballer of Hungarian descent
 * Gyula Kadar, Hungarian military officer during world war two

title: Kádár


text:
Albio Sires

Albio B. Sires (born January 26, 1951) is a Cuban-born American businessman and politician serving as the mayor of West New York, New Jersey, since 2023 and previously from 1995 to 2006. He is a member of the Democratic Party.

Sires represented district 33 in the New Jersey General Assembly from 2000 to 2006, serving as Speaker of the New Jersey House from 2002 to 2006. He then served as the U.S. representative for NJ's 8th congressional district from 2006 to 2023. The district, numbered as the NJ's 13th congressional district from 2006 to 2013, included most of northern and eastern Jersey City, as well as most of Newark's Latino neighborhoods. He did not seek reelection in 2022.

Early life
Sires was born on January 26, 1951, in Bejucal, Cuba. He immigrated to the United States with his family at age 11 with the help of relatives in the U.S. He eventually settled in West New York, New Jersey; he still lives there, in a town that was 78.08% Hispanic according to the 2010 census. He attended Public School 4, where he and his brother were two of only three Latinos in the school. Sires learned English from a teacher who used flashcards and phonetics, and subsequently attended Memorial High School, where he was a star basketball player, whose skills on the court helped him obtain a basketball scholarship to Saint Peter's College. He received a B.A. in 1974 in Spanish and marketing. He received an M.A. in Spanish from Middlebury College in 1985.

Teaching and business
Sires worked at Memorial High School as a teacher and coach. He is the owner of A.M. Title Agency Inc.

New Jersey government
Sires first ran for office as the Republican nominee for New Jersey's 14th congressional district.

Sires was the first Hispanic mayor of West New York and in 2004 was elected mayor of the year by his fellow mayors.

Sires served as the Speaker of the Assembly from 2002 to 2006 and was the first Hispanic person to serve as New Jersey's Assembly Speaker. He was considered a surprise pick for speaker, since he had only served one term in the Assembly before taking the position. It has been reported that he was elected as speaker after Governor-elect Jim McGreevey decided he did not want then Assembly Minority Leader Joseph Doria, a former speaker, to serve as speaker during his governorship.

Sires was an active Democrat in the 1970s and 1980s. He switched to the Republican Party in 1985 and ran for Congress in 1986 against Frank Guarini. Sires lost that election, 71% to 26%. Sires left the Republican Party in 1994 and became a registered independent. Sires rejoined the Democratic Party in 1998. Three years later, he became speaker.

During his tenure as speaker, Sires served as acting governor of New Jersey on several occasions, when McGreevey and Richard Codey left the state. He was the first Hispanic person to serve as an acting governor of New Jersey. As acting governor, Sires signed several bills into law and performed routine duties of the office.

For the 2006–08 legislative session, Sires was given the largely honorary title of Speaker Emeritus. He is a former chair of the Legislative Services Commission. Sires stepped down from his seat in the Assembly, and was replaced by Silverio Vega, whom the Democratic district committee chose to replace Sires. Vega was sworn into office on December 11, 2006.

Sires was the mayor of West New York, New Jersey, from 1995 to 2006. He was succeeded by Vega, who will retain his mayoral seat while he simultaneously serves in the Assembly, joining three fellow Hudson County mayors—Brian Stack of Union City in the Assembly and Nicholas Sacco of North Bergen and Joseph Doria of Bayonne in the New Jersey Senate—who serve as both mayors and in the New Jersey Legislature. For many years, it was common for New Jersey mayors to serve in the legislature; this practice of "double dipping" was abolished in 2006, but who had been in both positions before the February 1, 2008, cutoff date were grandfathered in and could retain both jobs. During the time that Sires served in the Assembly, he was paid $49,000 for his state legislative position and $15,000 annually as mayor.

Tenure
Sires had voted with the Democratic Party 93% of the time since joining Congress.

Sires was a member of the Congressional Cuba Democracy Caucus.

Sires is seen as a "champion of mass transit". He supports federal funding for public transportation projects, believing they will help his constituents. He was an advocate for a $9 billion "federal, state and locally-funded public transit tunnel from New Jersey to New York that broke ground in June 2009." The project was expected to employ thousands of people.
 * Mass transit

In March 2012, Sires pushed for a two-year bill that would help by funding highways and mass transit. He also pushed to extend the surface transportation bill so the House and Senate could reconcile the differences between the House bill and the Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act (MAP-21).

Sires has made affordable housing one of his priorities. Residents of his district pay more for housing—including rent and home prices—than most places in the country. He has supported legislation focused on making housing more affordable.
 * Housing

Sires opposed the nuclear deal with Iran, saying, "I do not feel the agreement will prevent them from acquiring a nuclear weapon."
 * Iran deal

On October 1, 2020, Sires co-signed a letter to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo that condemned Azerbaijan’s offensive operations against the Armenian-occupied enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh and denounced Turkey’s role in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.
 * Nagorno-Karabakh conflict

Committee assignments

 * Committee on Foreign Affairs
 * Subcommittee on Europe and Eurasia
 * Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere (Chair)
 * Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure
 * Subcommittee on Highways and Transit
 * Subcommittee on Railroads, Pipelines, and Hazardous Materials
 * Committee on the Budget

Caucus memberships

 * Congressional Arts Caucus
 * Congressional Hispanic Caucus

Political campaigns

 * 2006

In 2006, 13-year incumbent Democrat Bob Menendez moved to the United States Senate to fill the seat vacated by Governor of New Jersey Jon Corzine. Sires then entered the race to succeed him. He ran in two Democratic primary elections on June 6, 2006—a special primary for the last two months of Menendez's seventh term, and a regular primary for a full two-year term.

In the special primary to fill the remaining two months, Sires won about 90% of the vote, defeating James Geron. This all but assured Sires of being the next congressman from this heavily Democratic, Latino-majority district. Sires beat Assemblyman and Perth Amboy Mayor Joseph Vas in a bitter primary with 68% of the vote, winning in Union, Hudson and Essex Counties, while Vas won Middlesex County. No Republican even filed, assuring Sires of a full term. The 13th was so heavily Democratic that any Republican candidate would have faced nearly impossible odds.

Sires faced Republican John Guarini—a salesman and second cousin of former Congressman Frank J. Guarini—who was unopposed for the GOP nomination. Vas did not seek the unexpired term seat. After winning the election with 78% of the vote, Sires was sworn into the House on November 13, 2006, to fill the remainder of Menendez's term.

CQPolitics wrote, "Sires’ likely November victories would cap off his ambitions for a House seat, which he first expressed exactly 20 years ago under very different circumstances. He ran that year as the Republican challenger to entrenched incumbent Guarini, but managed only 27 percent of the vote."

Sires is part of a handful of Cuban lawmakers serving in the House, though, other than during the lone term served by Florida's Joe Garcia from 2013 to 2015, he has been the only Democrat.

 * 2010

The New York Times rated the 13th district "solid Democratic" in 2010. Sires was challenged by Republican nominee Henrietta Dwyer; he defeated her with 74% of the vote.

 * 2012

After New Jersey lost a district in the 2010 census, Sires ran for reelection in the 8th district, essentially a reconfigured version of the old 13th. In the primary election, he faced 25-year-old candidate Michael J. Shurin, whose campaign largely focused on the legalization of marijuana.

Electoral history
Write-in and minor candidate notes: In 2006, Dick Hester (Pro-life Conservative) and Esmat Zaklama (American Party) received 586 and 475 votes respectively. In 2014, independent candidate Robert Thorne received 653 votes.

Awards and honors
On October 4, 2013, Sires's hometown of West New York, New Jersey, honored him by renaming its Public School No. 4 the Albio Sires Elementary School. The school, at 6300 Palisade Avenue, is the elementary school Sires attended as a child. In attendance at the ceremony were West New York Mayor Felix Roque and U.S. Senator Robert Menendez.

Return to local politics
Sires ran for and won the 2023 election for mayor of West New York, an office he held before being elected to Congress.

Personal life
Sires and his wife, Adrienne, live in West New York, New Jersey.

title: Albio Sires


text:
Area code 928

Area code 928 is a telephone area code in the North American Numbering Plan for the U.S. state of Arizona. The numbering plan area comprises the northern, eastern, and western portions of the state. It includes Beaver Dam, the Grand Canyon, Flagstaff, Holbrook, Lake Havasu City, Littlefield, Kingman, Prescott, Sedona, Wickenburg, Winslow and Yuma, and also serves most of Greenlee County, some areas on the western and northern fringes of the Phoenix metropolitan area, such as Lake Pleasant Regional Park in Peoria, and the Arizona portion of the Navajo Nation.

The numbering plan area was created in a split of area code 520 on June 23, 2001, due mainly to population gains in Tucson, Yuma, and Flagstaff.

Prior to October 2021, area code 928 had telephone numbers assigned for the central office code 988. In 2020, 988 was designated nationwide as a dialing code for the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, which created a conflict for exchanges that permit seven-digit dialing. This area code was therefore scheduled to transition to ten-digit dialing by October 24, 2021.

title: Area code 928


text:
Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Federalist No. 10

Federalist No. 10
This is one of 85 articles on the Federalist Papers. Let me know of any problems and I will try to address them forthwith. The article was peer reviewed, and you can find the archive here; I think the points made there have been addressed. Thanks in advance for taking a look. Christopher Parham (talk) 20:51, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * You have to explain what faction is in an article about Federalist 10! Superm401 | Talk 23:53, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Really good article, but I agree with Superm401. The article needs to define 'faction' as Madison used the word.  Jkelly 00:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * In response to these points, the article already specifically quotes Madison's definition of faction from Federalist No. 10: "He defines a faction as 'a number of citizens, whether amounting to a minority or majority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adverse to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community.'" Is more than this needed? Christopher Parham (talk) 01:20, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I've pipelined the first instance to Political faction. That should do it. BD2412  talk 04:25, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It does for me. Jkelly 04:43, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Me too. I'm sorry I missed the inline quote of Madison's definition.  To be fair, though, it's much better to have it defined (or at least linked to a definition) at the first mention.  I'm satisifed now, at any rate. Superm401 | Talk 00:34, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Can the redlinks be fixed or unlinked? OmegaWikipedia 12:47, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * If by fixing you mean stubbifying them, I'd be happy to but all I could write would be "X was a newspaper/publisher in New York in the late 18th century." This really doesn't seem worth it. On the other hand, most of the redlinks probably do deserve articles, and hopefully their presence will convince someone more expert in the area to add knowledge. Christopher Parham (talk) 00:11, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah I see. I still think a redlink would look bad for a featured article. Maybe you could move them to the talk page so that people who want to fix them could and remove them from the main article? OmegaWikipedia 06:48, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I've removed 6 wikilinks from the article and created stubs for 2. A couple of redlinks remain, but only as the names of works in the references section, none in the article body. Is this satisfactory? It should be noted that many featured articles contain redlinks (indeed, quite likely a majority). Redlinks do, after all, help Wikipedia grow. Christopher Parham (talk) 08:32, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Great job on fixing the redlinks! It looks much better (you too BD2412) OmegaWikipedia 22:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I have created stub articles for the three Supreme Court decisions cited, and will expand those later. BD2412  talk 21:53, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Support. Succint but a very informative and enjoyable article. Johnleemk | Talk 17:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Great article. OmegaWikipedia 22:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Have I mentioned, support? BD2412  talk 00:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Support, this is the best article I've read today. Falphin 01:55, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Object. User-unfriendly. Here, I've listed a small, representative example of what needs to be addressed throughout. It will take many hours.
 * Can you hit us with a more functional description right at the top? At the moment, the poor readers have to wade through several sentences to learn what the topic is about. It was a high-profile political commentary in the lead-up to the debate about the US Consitution, was it? How, very briefly, did it influence the consitutional debate? You need to engage the reader by painting the big picture at the start. It's kind of ... boring, as is.
 * What is 'faction' in this context? Without an article, it's an unusual usage; we shouldn't have to hit the link to learn about it—briefly gloss it in a phrase or two here.
 * Any reason for initial caps in 'Anti-Federalist'?
 * Again, in 'Circumstances', the reader first gets bogged down in matters of process; why not start with the larger meaning and then move to process.
 * Are you a lawyer? You write like one. Someone needs to go through the entire text and simplify expressions such as 'Madison comes to the conclusion' (Madison concludes).
 * 'Madison takes the position that there are two ways to limit the damage caused by faction. The first, removing the causes that provoke the development of factions, he contends can be accomplished in two ways. One, the elimination of liberty, he rejects as unacceptable, and the other, creating a society homogenous in opinion and interest, he sees as impractical because causes of faction, among them variant economic interests, are inherent in a free society.'
 * Unclear whether 'the first' refers back to 'position', 'way', 'damage', or 'faction', until you read further and then reread.
 * Rather long sentences, with multilevel nestings in one. We have 'The ffirst', then we have 'One ...'. Perhaps you might consider the judicious use of bullet points, for ease of reading, and to make the grey mass less daunting.
 * 'because causes'—avoid such jingles.
 * 'the majority can always enforce its will'—remove 'always'.
 * 'the number of citizens to a representative'—better wording required.
 * 'Each representative being chosen from a larger constituency also, in Madison's view, means that "vicious arts" of electioneering will be less effective.'—Clumsy word order. 'Each representative being chosen'—not strictly grammatical.
 * 'The larger populations and areas a republic is able to cover also motivate in favor of that form of government.' Huh?
 * 'This is a general application of the principle of checks and balances central to the American constitutional system.' Comma needed.

We want an interesting, enlightening text. This is boring, and you're asking the readers to work too hard. Tony 04:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * In most cases, I've altered the article to reflect your suggestions. Regarding two of your specific points: (1) "Anti-Federalist" is almost universally capitalized as the name of a movement or party. (2) Your first point was also difficult, as Federalist No. 10 did not especially influence the constitutional debate (hopefully the article did not imply that it did). I've tried to improve the lead in terms of placing motivating material nearer the beginning, however. If you could take another look, that would be excellent. Christopher Parham (talk) 06:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

 * It's a lot better now, but can you find someone else to have a run through? And leave it yourself for a few days and run through it again. There's still a considerable amount that needs to be fixed. My eyes picked out a few more things at random:
 * 'The fact that a republic can encompass larger areas and populations also motivates in favor of that form of government.' 'Motivates' is the wrong word.
 * A sentence like: 'This is a general application of the checks and balances principle central to the American constitutional system.' reads poorly without a comma after 'principle'. Go through the whole text looking for such places. Here's another example: 'differing economic interests had created dispute even when the Constitution was being written'. There are lots more.
 * 'Madison's argument that restraining liberty in order to limit faction is an unacceptable solution has been used by opponents of campaign finance limits. This is a convoluted sentence. 'In order to'—PLEASE just 'to'.
 * Sift through for redundant words: 'compromise ideas like this one' (remove 'one'); 'In making their arguments, the Anti-Federalists appealed to both historical and theoretic evidence in making their case.' (we don't need both first AND last phrases).
 * Numbers over ten, use numerals (36, etc).

So you see that there's still work to be done to bring it up to standard. HINT: Read through each sentence in reverse order, starting at the end. It often helps you to see faults. Tony 13:26, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

PS Should the title 'The question' be 'The faction question'? Tony 13:29, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Tony, I'm afraid that going through the article myself will not be very productive in producing the sort of changes you seek. This is because most of the things you see as needing to be fixed I would say are fine as is; after all the way the article is written more or less represents my style of choice. For instance, I could read the article 10000 times and never add commas in the two places you suggest above, or change thirty-six to 36. If you want me to make changes to the style of the article to reflect your standards, I'm more than happy to do this, but the changes will have to be suggested by you. I have, however, made the specific changes you requested. "The question" refers to the question the essay answers. I have changed it to "the question of faction" to clarify this. Christopher Parham (talk) 18:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the article is fine stylistically - people looking up an article on an edition of the Federalist Papers should expect some erudition, just as those looking up an article on a math topic would expect to see some formulae. In any event, any reviewer who disagrees with the turn of a phrase or the lack of a comma can make that change to the article in less time than it takes to point out this shortcoming. Cheers! BD2412  talk 19:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The changes I propose are to make the text easier to read. They don't arise from a personal preference on my part, unless that's for easy reading. For example, without the commas in my examples, and in many other instances in the text, nominal items jostle against each other, and initial adverbial phrases are not as clear as they need to be. Suit yourself: I'm only thinking of your readers. No matter how 'erudite' you intend the article to be, it makes no difference to these matters. Tony 01:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to imply that they are personal preferences in the sense of being arbitrary or capricious, they are personal in the sense that they are not universal or fundamental rules of English. People can reasonably differ on whether to include a comma in a certain place, surely. My point as far as this FAC nomination goes is that while you say that there are lots more places where the text reads poorly without a comma, this isn't an actionable request unless you can indicate where such places are for me to fix. I hope I'm not coming off as rude, but our obviously differing interpretations of what's unclear means it will be difficult/impossible for me to imply your general advice. (By the way, I've refactored these comments in with your previous ones; feel free to reverse this if you want). Christopher Parham (talk) 01:38, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Someone looking this up on Wikipedia will find exactly what they wanted. If that doesn't qualify the article for featured status, I don't know what would. -- ⟳ ausa کui × 20:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


text:
User talk:ConCuu

Welcome
Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:ConCuu


text:
User talk:Pisomojado101

This is your last warning. The next time you vandalize a page, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. --fvw *  20:52, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Pisomojado101


text: User talk:24.81.74.254

title: User talk:24.81.74.254