text:
Talk:Modern Talking

Comment made by 62.31.78.228 in May 2006
It's a little bizarre to say that Modren Talking were preceived as a gay group in the United Kingdom, and I would dispute that (not that it matters, being gay myself). Whilst it is true that their early singles were played in gay clubs in the early 80s, the real reason for their lack of success in Britain, would I feel, mainly be due to the fact that Britain has a distaste for Euro Pop in general. They do not mind the 'one off' euro hit, but generally the style of Modern Talking would never have sat favourably in the UK Playlists of radio stations. Britain has always 'looked down'on the style of music that Modern Talking produced, considering it trite and without substance. Of course not all European music has had the same reception in the UK, Abba being a notable example. But then, Abba cannot possibly be compared to Modern Talking, being musically in another league to this band. But you know, I did like Modern Talking,catchy songs, although they all sounded the same!!

Neutral tone
This article reads like a fan page: "Composer Dieter Bohlen employed mood-evoking lyrics and intellectually-designed, synthesizer-based music". Putting aside the obvious and laughable hyperbole, this is unsourced original research, and this entire article should be in the tone of an encyclopedia article and not a record company press release. Also, cut down on the hyphenation, my German friends. "Intellectually-designed" is not proper English usage. Unigolyn 11:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Other Facts
The article says "Modern Talking is the only band to Score five consecutive number one singles in Germany along with Boney M." How can they be the only band to achieve this if Boney M also did it? Mrwhizzard 20:51, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Picture
Who replaced the previous picture of MT by the current one? I want to see that 80's picture again...they are an 80's group above all.

You can see this in the "history" tab...

Compliations
The Compilations are not chronological.

For user: tell the trooth
Please refrain from future non-constructive alterations to this article. Repeated alterations of similar nature will constitute vandalism to the article and will be treated as such.

I have spent many hours on this article and I'm quite familiar with a duo's history. The information that you continually keep including cannot be found within the official web site of Modern Talking/Thomas Anders. And I certainly hope you have not been drawn to this nonsense because you see Dieter Bohlen standing next to some guys which could very easily be told by anybody that the image of Dieter Bohlen is simply added on. Also, it is an unpofessionally written article with grammatical errors and cannot be used as a reliable source.

If you are still going to insist on it then you're going to have to come up with other useful sources, this will not do it. In other words, your persistant reversions basing on those sources are only going to make you end up in Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents --Harout72 (talk) 01:09, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Missing Parts
Is true here need to exist the basic info, but many important information is missing, what about the real voices of Modern Talking?. Thomas Anders and Dieter Bohlen were always who we could see in covers, posters, videos, etc, but in same way that Mini Vanilli and Boney M, Den Harrow, etc. (they had help of other singers). The real voices in chorus, the real choir were Systems In Blue (Rolf Köhler, Michael Scholz and Detlef Wiedeke), together with Birger Corleis. I know there are some interest in hide this "dark" part, for people that believe is a kind of threath to Bohlen or something like "to destroy dreams", this is just very stupid in my opinion, the truth is the truth, we have to give the right credit to all people that make this band possible, and this is not classificated or secret info, these are not rumours, these are facts, that we can't hide with a finger. The public need to read the truth, and not the so well known and manipulated story that we read by years. We do all with respect of course.

Bluesky84 (talk) 23:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC) Modern Talking biographer

 * I have never seen this coming from a reliable source. I've seen this nonsense in Fan-made pages, but not anywhere reliable. Every new statement that going to be inserted has to be supported by highly reliable sources.--Harout72 (talk) 23:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Sorry but I am making a serious investigation since years and myself I had see the proofs with my own eyes, talking with the people involved, is logic it don't appear in the normal biographies, but exist the trials, exist the documents that whoever can get if really follow this issue. I am not lying, those are just the facts. Bluesky84 (talk) 23:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC) Modern Talking biographer

I am sorry, but nothing of that kind will be allowed to be inserted unless there is a highly reliable source supporting such a thing.--Harout72 (talk) 23:55, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ok do you want a highly proof?, take the album "Let's Talk about Love" and please read the credits, I don't know who you are, and why you try to hide the real facts, what is your interest for hide this information to the public?, this is internet and we have rights, you can't change the story only because you want, what you do is a kind of crimen, let the truth to be free and respect please!!!. Give me your mail for talk in private about it if you want to continue this discussion. If this article is serious need to be objetive and not unfair like it had been until now. Bluesky84 (talk) 23:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC) Modern Talking biographer

Please familiarize yourself with WP:RS. It's quite clear that you are new at wikipedia. If no reliable source has so far published anything like what you are suggesting, well, perhaps, they are rumors. By the way, on the booklet of Let's Talk About Love, it reads: Many thanks to our friends: Birger Corleis, Rolf Koehler, Michael Scholz, Ralf Stemmann, Dieter Wiedeke, Arnie-Studio and all the fans of Modern Talking. Does this mean that we should also believe that some of the MT fans have produced vocals? I am not sure what you expected me to understand after I read it.--Harout72 (talk) 00:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * of course I am very new here, just some minutes ago I registered and wanted to make my contribution to this issue that I follow since many time ago, in this album is written the names of this people for the first time, why? coincidence?, is not the only, also get please the booklet of blue system albums, i don't remember in which exactly in this moment, but Bohlen wrote a public thanks to this people that worked in the choir of his productions, what rumour you talk?, what other proof are you searching?, at the end, where is the damage?, by the way I also read, that you think is a picture montage this picture of Bohlen together with SIB? LOL, this is a real picture from early 90's that I took in my hands. Please watch in youtube the report akte 03 about the truth of Modern Talking.  Bluesky84 (talk) 23:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC) Modern Talking biographer

What other proof am I after? Let me ask you this, did you familiarize yourself with WP:RS, did you read this here? If not please do so.--Harout72 (talk) 00:44, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * in same way, can you give me any reliable source saying that my info is fake?, what else do you want?, there are books, serious articles in respetable magazines, own texts in booklets, reports of trials, golden records with the names of this artists, documents, etc... I just write who were singing the chorus in Modern Talking and you delete it without any rights!!!, do you still believe, the picture of Dieter Bohlen with Rolf, Michael and Detlef is false or a edit trick?, please... what right have you for decide what is reliable info and what not?. You are making vandalism hidden info and only showing what you want. When will we have real serious info about this band here?. Some people still believe that Dieter bohlen sang in Modern Talking, when the own ex-producer Ralf Stemman, declared he never gave an only note!!. (I don't write that here, but we know). I ask for justice here, this article is total manipulated and don't tell the truth!!. Bluesky84 (talk) 23:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC) Modern Talking biographer

I guess this means you didn't read WP:RS, I am sorry I can't help you any further than this. We need reliable sources and end of story.--Harout72 (talk) 01:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * yes i read very well, and according to that I am able to write what I write and you in your vandalims delete, also you keep external links that are not reliable, just fansites that share illegal mp3s and make damage to this music, I think wikipedia don't allow that, but you keep only what you want, like absolute dictator, also, who are you for "end" a story?, the sacred king of the info?, I find this unfair, I also read, what you said of another user that tried to say the truth before me, my respect to this person, is a pity wikipedia couldn't give a real serious story about this band that I love and follow since long time. Bluesky84 (talk) 23:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC) Modern Talking biographer

Bluesky84, you are absolute right! I (and also other people) hase always changed on this page that dieter is no singer. The high-pitched parts are sung by Rolf Köhler, Detlef Wiedecke, Michael Scholz (alias Systems In Blue). The voices of Systems In Blue are very similar to the voices of Modern Talking Refrains. The main voice of Systems in Blue (Rolf Köhler) is the same voice as the mainvoice of Blue System Refrains. And if you listen to the song "Let's Talk about Love", you can hear very clear the voice of Rolf Köhler in the refrain of the song. In this song he sing 'normal', without high pitched voice. The mainvoice of the refrain of "Let's Talk About Love" is the same voice as the Blue System refrains, and that is the same voice as the Systems In Blue refrains. And that's Rolf Köhler. Everybody can hear with his own ears! And there are many realistic sources and references on the internet about this and it's is not fake. There is a documentary from the german tv on youtube: Akte 03 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDxvKKouTJs), there you can see that Rolf Köhler is singin and you can hear demotapes with the real voice of dieter bohlen, and dieter has a very limited voice and it's not similair to the Modern Talking chorus. It's true that SIB are not Modern Talking: Dieter and Thomas are Modern Talking, but SIB helped together with Modern Talking in the studios. SIB are a part of Modern Talking. And they sale there voices to Dieter. SIB helped Dieter with the songs of Modern Talking and that is a truth. It has been proved, we can hear it at the songs and there is enough information about it on the internet. Look to other the Modern Talking pages of the other languages from wikipedia: their names have been written, such as the german (deutsch), spanish (espanol) and especially the dutch (nederlands) wikipedia, there is very much info about the chorus of Modern Talking. And why this info must be hidden on this page? I love Modern Talking because the high pitched voices. They are very typical for Modern Talking and i know they are sung by Systems In Blue. Thats the reason i have very much respect to them. I have respect for Thomas Anders, he is a great singer and of course i have also respect to Dieter Bohlen. He is the founder, composer and creator of Modern Talking, but he is no singer!

Sorry for my bad english, i hope that i am clear. 83.83.95.239 (talk) 10:13, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

 * thanks for you comment, many people over the world already know the facts, so there are not reason, a person here in wikipedia try to manipulate the information, he is warning me now saying that will accuse me of vandalism, when the only vandal is he!!, he has not rights for change the story, I put some facts in the biography, with the reliable source in external links, that is a link that himself took like realiable before, THE SAME BMG ADMITED ROLF, MICHAEL; DETLEF AND BIRGER WERE THE CHOIR OF MODERN TALKING, but he deletes it now and say that is unnecessary??, what is unnnecessary is his attack and vandal!!, he need to be blocked for hide information, for keep only false things, and for don't let to decent people to express and contribute to the real history of this music band. Bluesky84 (talk) 12:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC) Modern Talking biographer

Oh now we are supporting these claims by unofficial artists' sites? Even the official artists' sites are not considered third party reliable sources, see WP:RS, why are we not able to locate any third party reliable sources confirming about the vocalists? Is it that insignificant? What's astonishing that the claim is even supported by a You Tube site, see this Are IRC, MySpace, and YouTube reliable sources? please. I am removing all of them unless someone comes forward with a third party reliable source. Look for it in the Germany's google, perhaps, you might find something in German and that should be fine. --Harout72 (talk) 01:53, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Talking Forever is an OFFICIAL site of Systems In Blue, you are liying when you say is unofficial, but in your same logic why you keep references from unnofical artists sites, and from where come your references, so all what you wrote need to be deleted because all haven't reliable sources--MT SIB (talk) 21:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

do you need a source: here is a 07 article in Stern: cit.: "Rolf Köhler: Bohlens Sänger ist tot" "eine der Stimmen von Modern Talking und Blue System" translates: "Rolf Köhler: Bohlen's singer is dead" ... "one of the voices of Modern Talking and Blue System" http://www.stern.de/kultur/musik/rolf-koehler-bohlens-saenger-ist-tot-598031.html (E-Kartoffel (talk) 12:49, 19 February 2011 (UTC))

The band's sound
Rather than keeping this argument going (and probably ending up with a 3RR block) why not propose the text of a section on the band's sound. If it's obvious to all that there are more than two voices, and the other voices contribute a great deal to the 'sound', hash out a section about it here. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Modern Talking is the band, therefore the lede of the article should not include information about other artistes who regularly perform with Modern Talking. Half of the 1980s disco acts owed their success to the presence of the Tower of Power horns, but it would be equally improper to insist that TofP were members of any of those ensembles. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

About Discofox
Discofox is a dance, but also it become a music style in Germany, the music for the dance discofox is sometimes quite different to the music of the style. I think there are a misunderstanding about that. --Bluesky84 (talk) 17:11, 12 August 2009 (UTC) MTB

This article is not Neutral
I will let this discussion here for future people that maybe try to make some contributions. The situation is this, due to the polemic that this band got in the last times, since was discovered Dieter Bohlen really didn't sing in Modern Talking, and the real singers (Rolf Köhler, Detlef Wiedeke, Michael Scholz and Birger Corleis), never got the right credits, and licenses, Bohlen promised them. There are some problems with some people that take partiality with a side or other of the story, as a result we have this kind of conflicts. Here in wikipedia seems is impossible to keep a neutral position, and more impossible to keep a real serious neutral biography about this band. There are many excuses, manipulation of the rules, the reliable sources are not taking like important for personal questionable decitions, is really a pity can't exist some fair here. Who can read the history of the editions, can realize, how many times people tried to say the truth, recently I just tried to complete the information, I didn't attack, offend, or say any nosense with my contribution, but the vandalism only come from those that try to hide the truth. So we are notify, this story about Modern Talking is manipulated, and don't give enough serious information. I hope any good and fair solution can come in future. --Bluesky84 (talk) 17:28, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Find a reliable source - not someone's blog, not a page on geocities. Something in the music press.  Doesn't necessarily have to be online - could be in a print journal.   How do YOU know this is correct - how did YOU find it out? Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Aye, there's the rub. "Reliable Sources".  Also, Bluesky, read the vandalism article ... continually adding unsourced material to an article is far closer to being actual vandalism than anything else.  This is especially important in biographies of living persons - unsourced content will get you in big trouble. ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 18:43, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Bluesky, i have earlier the names of the studiomusicans written by Production and sales figures. I have written there role in the band and i have find some relieble sources. By one of the sources we can see and hear Rolf Köhler singing and we hear some demotapes from Dieter himself and we can clearly hearing that the voice of Dieter not similair is to the chorus of Modern Talking. And that is the fact. And there are more sources. I hope that the manipulation of this page is over. 83.83.95.239 (talk) 19:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I can see the sources you've added to Systems in Blue - I've asked you about one on your talkpage. I don't read German, so I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at.  We wouldn't normally view YouTube as a reliable source - this is mainly because of issues around linking to items that violate copyright. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:09, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Hello, I don't know why I can't login me in the english wikipedia, my login belong to a different wikipedia language and maybe are not compatibles. I only wanted to comment, that I am agree, this article is not being serious and had been in this way since long time. Moreover the claims about reliable sources are not clear, what are they really asking to have?, because I find many evidence and the information is also available in the net. Here a link that maybe can help, is a official Fansite of SIB  and also in this german site translated in many languages, please read --190.234.167.10 (talk) 22:15, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you need a global login.... On the sources, talkingforever.com is a fansite - English Wikipedia will accept the official site belonging to the band but not a fansite (official often has little meaning where fans are concerned). http://www.systems-in-blue.de/] I have no problems with, and I have already said that this article should include a section on the contribution over a number of years of systems in blue to the sound associated with Modern talking.  Where I'm having a problem with is the idea that Systems in Blue have been done out of anything by Modern Talking, and the article should 'set the record straight'.  While it is quite possible that there was a court case, an out of court settlement and a non-disclosure order, it shouldn't be mentioned unless there is a reliable source for it.  Has the music journalism press not said anything ever? Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:52, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for your suggestion about the global login. I had read the new contributions talking about the real choir of Modern Talking, and I find it good, finally!!. Just I want to add this little clarification, is true talkingforever.com started like a fansite (Modern Talking was over when it was released and Bohlen didn't answer the request for make it like official spanish site of Modern Talking), but then this site became a portal that is divided in different sections including official fansites, aprooved by the same artists, this is the case of C.C.Catch and Systems In Blue. So in the site of Systems In Blue, the link is www.talkingforever.com/systemsinblue, is declared like official site to the hispanic people (with an english section for non-spanish speakers fans) and the information comes with the direct order and authorization of this artists. All info there also was previous consulted to the same musicians involved, in this case, even the current backvocal singers of Dieter Bohlen made some contribution. I also have some articles in press and serious magazines in german that if is necessary I will try to scann and translate, there are evidence everywhere, but exist an interest of Dieter Bohlen for hide this facts, he is powerful inside Germany with many influence in music market and is trying to destroy to Systems In Blue and people that show this shameful true about him to the world, please consider that. Wikipedia must to keep a neutral position and don't hide this things in favour of impunity and injustice. --190.234.167.10 (talk) 23:15, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

This is strange
All my sources are deleted and this page is blocked! I'm no vandalist, i'm very serious! Many people believe that dieter is the backroundsinger of Modern Talking, because we can seeing Dieter singing next to Thomas Anders. But in fact he don't sing real. He has studiosingers to produced the vocals for Dieter. Dieter can't sing! We can hear it by the strophes of Blue System, he has a very bad voice. I have never hear that voice by Modern Talking! The refrains of Blue System are sung by Rolf Köhler, because it's the same voice as the leadvocal from Systems In Blue. But everybody know's that. But by Modern Talking did dieter the same as by Blue System. The refrains of Modern Talking are also sung by Rolf Köhler and other singers too. Dieter moves his lips without actually singing! Bohlen has always portrayed himself as a singer, but he has never been a singer. This is his business. Why is youtube no reliable source? By the first video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDxvKKouTJs&feature=related) we can hear and seeing Rolf Köhler singing and we see the Modern Talking records of Detlef Wiedeke. It's a fact that Detlef Wiedeke singer is by Modern Talking. By the second video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYmhLFk_9KA&feature=related) we can hear demotapes from bohlen and that's the same voice as the Blue System Strophes, but on the demotapes he sing in Modern Talking style and it sounds not the same as the Modern Talking choir. And here we can more demotapes hearing from Dieter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oE8jH2N2dQ&feature=related. It sounds very bad, it is not similair to the voices from the Modern Talking refrains. It is a shame as we saying that this is the same as the Modern Talking chorus. I know that wikipedia don't accept youtube videos, but this is the only manner we can hear and see the proof about it. An if you very good listening to the voice of Michael Scholz of Systems In Blue: it is the same high-pitched voice from Modern Talking. We can also hear the voice of Rolf Köhler (the voice of Blue System) at the Modern Talking chorus. Listen to the song "Let's Talk About Love". The refrainvoice of that song is similair to the leadvocal of the refrains from Blue System Songs. We can find the proofs at the Modern Talking and Systems In Blue songs there. Maybe it's not professional, but look also to this http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Talking and this http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Talking. Their names are also written on this wikipedia pages. And there are more wikipedia pages were the names from Systems In Blue are written, because it's a fact that they are the chorus of Modern Talking. 83.83.95.239 (talk) 08:17, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I am agree with you, again this article was destroyed by Harout72, maybe exist any way for dennounce this user?, I don't know how works this english version, please hold on!!, you have all my support, and all users that try to help here before. --190.234.167.10 (talk) 08:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Report to Harout72 for vandalism to this article
The user Harout72 is making strong vandalism to this article too much times, he only keeps what he wants, and report to users that correct the story like vandals, when they are not vandals. Please help to dennounce this user for make him blocked and banned from this article, and recover the deleted parts that he is trying to hide and change in his only favour.--190.234.167.10 (talk) 08:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have pointed out here that I think he is moving into dodgy editing, as he seems to be refusing any reference to the other three.   If you have sources in magazines, please cite the magazine and provide a translation of the relevant passage.  I think if you scan the whole article, it may run into difficulties with copyright, but you could try.

 * I think you, Bluesky and the IP editor need to avoid making this sound like a crusade. Modern Talking is Bohler and Anders - even if the other three are major contributors to the sound, they are not Modern Talking, so any attempt to stick them in the lede of the article as members of the band is doomed.  There is no reliable evidence of a dispute or a court case, and this needs not to sound like an accusation that Bohlen can't sing.

 * The article is semi protected. Post information here and I will include it in the article if it is reliable. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 10:55, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

 * More importantly Bluesky/the IP editor needs to read WP:SOCK. ( talk→  BWilkins   ←track ) 11:02, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Is 83.83 Bluesky? Bluesky, you must not edit Wikipedia as an IP and pretend to be someone else!!! However, I think that what has happened is that he has asked some editors from Wikipedia.de to come over here. Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:37, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * At least one of the 2 IP's is definitely Bluesky. I'll let you guess which it is  :-P ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 13:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Naughty, naughty! And doesn't help your case one bit.  And will get you blocked for Sockenpuppe (it will on wikipedia.de as well!!).

So, three separate issues here
 * 1) Bluesky, stop making sockenpuppen
 * 2) I believe the inclusion of some information about the contributions of Systems in Blue to the sound of Modern Talking is thoroughly relevant.  These guys worked together for years. The equivalent wikipedia.de article got featured status.  Would one of the german speaking IPs care to translate the relevant sections of that article along with any references onto the talk page here.
 * 3) The role of Wikipedia.en is to collate reported facts, not to "tell the truth", "set the record straight" or anything like that.  So any claims about how so and so can't sing, or such and such showed bad faith, or Tom, Dick and Harry were done out of royalties, or anyone at all sued anyone else, can only be allowed with cast-iron zuverlässige Publikationen Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey! I am not the other users, I don't know who is 83.83 but i suggest him to create an account for avoid problems, otherwise this people will acusse us of be same persons, that we are not!!. I have my own account since years, but in other language wikipedia, the reason I come here is because I get the reference, my site is being quotated here (and then deleted), this issue is also commented in a private forum, I am not follower of wikipedia, and I also don't know the other users, ips involved, please don't accuse me without reliable sources (LOL). I find more than evident that Harout72 is destroying this story, and it was commented before even in sites like youtube, this site don't need to be protected only because he want, the reliable sources are there!!!.--190.43.154.26 (talk) 15:26, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * For the record, it is the other IP (83.83) that I think might be Bluesky. The style of English is very similar. Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

that's maybe because I am not english speaker?, I would like to know how to login me with my nick, I guess wikipedia has a database with ips and logins for everyone, but anyway I think this is only a distractor here. I can read the whole discussion, how enough reliable sources were posted and then deleted, you write this guys are not Modern Talking, despite they were the creators of many songs included you're my heart you're my soul--190.43.154.26 (talk) 15:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * All three of you appear to be native speakers of another language, but you don't all say things the same. I don't know why BWilkins thinks some of you are socks of Bluesky, but I think it's just on the language.  Post a source for your claim about the song immediately below my post (do not just tell me you have provided references). Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I think we are more, check in historial, there are other users that were attacked by harout72 before. and why we all say the same things? OMG come on!! because is TRUE!!. why everybody say that earth is not plane???, please same logic!!. Other people tried to add same info but were ignored with false statements about not reliable sources, this article need to be free, we are not vandals, the vandal is only harout72. About the reference to this song, I think wikipedia don't need to tell that, only to include the information was posted before and then deleted, to add the contribution and names of this people is enough--190.43.154.26 (talk) 16:02, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

No i'm not Bluesky, i has just talked to him. I have no account on the english wikipdia. And i don't like the english wikipedia. I cannot talk fluencly english and i don't understand some things. But i was sad when i read that Dieter bohlen is a singer, that is not true. And the name of the real singers and the other studiomusicans are not written and thats amazing. I have written the dutch Modern Talking page on wikipedia together with other people and everyone knows that Detlef, Rolf and Michael are singers too by Modern Talking and Luis rodriques and ralf stemmann are the arrangers and co-producers and there are more people helping with Modern Talking. And it's very strange that the international (english) wikipedia page about Modern Talking isn't correct. And other people here accept that and that's a big shame. 83.83.95.239 (talk) 16:08, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

REFERENCE PEOPLE. No reference, no entry. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:11, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * check this picture please this is a kind of public confession signed by the own Bohlen in one of his records, I know is in german, but it say, "thanks to Rolf Köhler, Detlef Wiedeke, Michael Scholz, for sing the choir" (Birger Corleis ended their work with Bohlen early). They have in their homes records with their names written by BMG, we are asking only to include their names in this wikipedia.  83.83 has my same problem, we have accounts in other language wikipedias.--190.43.154.26 (talk) 16:24, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What cd is that on the back of? As I've said over at WQA, SIB's own website   (select "About Us" as the text is in a box so the url doesn't change) claims that they have worked with Bohler for years, on Blue System as well as Modern Talking.  I fancy Bohler (not to mention Sony Corp, who now own the rights) would have sued the pants off them if it wasn't true, so I see no reason to doubt that statement or, given that the squeaky voices are a major component of the sound, any reason not to give it a mention in the article.  I kind of like the way Discogs says it  - "studio line up included...."  I think any talk of lawsuits is best left out - I did find another reference  which purports to have been the english language version of the official BMG russia site ....but I have my doubts.  Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi, this picture belong to the booklet of Obsession CD of Blue System, look for yourself that there are evidence enough. I think the last version of 83.83 was the most fair and neutral, so would be enough that you can put again this version available for end the polemic, is more than clear the user harout72 is taking this personal, maybe for any special interest, who knows, but he is not being neutral in any sense and is even deleting your contributions. --MT SIB (talk) 23:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That explains it. I've found scans of all the MT covers, but it's a Blue system one.  Check out my latest edit - I don't think it will be reverted.  The problem is attempting to claim that the members of SIB were actually members of MT - they never were.  Bands are legal entities with legal documents drawn up by record labels showing who their members are, so it's no good trying to argue that they were members of the band.  For this reason, I cannot support putting their names in the lede, but I have added a fair mention lower down. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Dear Elen, of course not, they were not official members of Modern Talking, and the claims here were not to include them like members!, despite they were the 50% of the vocals together with Thomas Anders and even arrangers, (but we are not asking to write that), the claims here is only to include their complete names at least as collaborators and singers of the choir in any part of this not so neutral article, same BMG record company, now Sony admited they were the backvocal singers of this band since the beginning, this is an evident fact, they were working with Dieter Bohlen, even before this band was created and many time then with other proyects, also you can find again the reference in the LP "Let's Talk about Love" of Modern Talking, is written there again thanks to this 4 persons, for their participation in the band. Sure there are more legal documents, where is possible to see more things (maybe can be added fürther information with the time here?), but also consider with less sources, other information is admited to be published in many articles in wikipedia, (even in other wikipedia languages same information about this 4 persons was admited always without problems), so why this special exigency is demanding only here with this particular article?, why would be impossible to complete and add the fair information wich whoever has right in get from an article of wikipedia?, the answer seems was just because here an "special" user pretended to keep a questionable version and blocking who don't think like him!. You can check all articles from the whole wikipedia, be aware not all articles had the same demands for every part were added before. --MT SIB (talk) 04:20, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Myself being an uninvolved third party, here is my observations: what you (referring to MT SIB) and your friends (refering to Bluersky84 and such) had done here was nothing short of a personal attack on this so called "special" user of Wikipedia, if there ever was one. Have you ever considered looking at this from a third person perspective? It is so clear to me that you guys had repeatedly lash out at this "special' guy for stopping you guys from adding disputable facts to the article page without first citing a reliable source to let other editors verify, and because you guys didn't get your way, you guys decided to call him all sorts of name (a simple check of all your edit/contribution histories has positively confirmed that). That is not how a responsible adult would go about interacting with other people/editors here on English Wikipedia, mind you. In short, all your behaviours were no different from that of a TROLL, which is a behaviour deeply frowned upon here on English Wikipedia. Correct me if I'm wrong. PS: STOP all your nonsense personal attack (read No personal attacks!) from this moment onwards or you might find yourself getting the short end of the stick later, this is my last and final warning to you. --Dave1185 (talk) 08:18, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

If you want to take this allegation about a supposed personal attack, everyone of us can make the same, since first we were treated as vandals by this user and nobody defend us; is already demostrated that our contribution always had reliable sources that were not taken like that for the decition of this user that first decided to mark us like vandals using a threat tone, and didn't accept our participation or any kind of reasonable discussion for change his article version.--MT SIB (talk) 11:29, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * MT, please go back and read all of your contribution history again and then compare it to the contribution history of that so called "special" user whom you've mentioned above. Do you see any diference now? For the record, I have observed and noted that while he has disengaged himself from the argument with you, I find that you're still stuck - knee deep in the "quagmire" of name callings (you did mentioned about someone being stupid, right?)... now if that isn't a telltale sign that you (and your other so called friends) have yet to stop your personal attack on him, I don't know what else is. In short, be CIVIL... we can all agree to disagree and disagree to agree, all at the same time but the issue of civility should not be subjected to any ambiguity of intention, including of you being rude, name calling of others and asking for a block to be place on the "special" user. Be adviced that this action of yours is no different from that of a disruptive editor and could result in you being the one to get the BLOCK instead! And if you carry on with your trollish behaviour, note that I subscribe to WP:DENY. --Dave1185 (talk) 12:13, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * you wrote that: "and your other so called friends", who are my friends???, do you think that we are friends that planned that??, what about the entry about tell the trooth and how he was censured?, how many time ago happened that? what about the constinual abuse to us?, this has not value, (we are not friends, only victims of same user). I won't consider your comment because this reason, it simply has nosense for me, and that's all.--MT SIB (talk) 00:11, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Can we DROP THE STICK AND BACK SLOWLY AWAY FROM THE HORSE CARCASS  Please. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:18, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Point proven, I rest my case. --Dave1185 (talk) 06:01, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Contribution to this article
I have here other reliable source from Stern. it say: " Von 1984 bis 2000 arbeitete Köhler für so ziemlich alles, was Dieter Bohlen produzierte: Engelbert, Al Martino, Bonnie Tyler. Sein bedeutendster Einsatz jedoch war es, Teil des Kastraten-Chors von Modern Talking gewesen zu sein; Blue System, Bohlens zweites großes Projekt, prägte er mit rauchigem Gesang. In seinem Studio im niedersächsischen Brake hatte Köhler die Goldenen Schallplatten aufgehängt, die er für seine Mitarbeit an den Erfolgen von Modern Talking und Blue System bekommen hatte. Offiziell, für die Millionen "Bravo"-Leser und Verehrer des Duos Bohlen/Anders, gab es ihn in diesen Bands nie - genau so wenig wie seine Chorkollegen Detlef Wiedeke und Michael Scholz. Vor einigen Jahren, anlässlich des Comebacks von Modern Talking, waren die drei Sänger an die Öffentlichkeit gegangen: Von Bohlen selbst, so erklärten sie, stamme kein einziger Ton auf den Schallplatten - was der bis heute bestreitet. Die Plattenfirma zahlte jedem der drei daraufhin 100.000 Mark, ein Taschengeld, verglichen mit den Einnahmen, die diese ihr beschert hatten." Translation (sorry mistakes): "From 1984 to 2000 Köhler worked on quite everything that was produced by Dieter Bohlen: Engelbert, Al Martino, Bonnie Tyler. But his most important employment was to be part of the Eunuch-Choir for Modern Talking; Blue System, Bohlens second big Project was shaped by his husky voice. In his own Studio,which is located in Brake/Lower-Saxony, Köhler had all the gold records, which he has received for his work and success on Modern Talking and Blue System. Officiall, for all the „Bravo“-Readers and Fans of the Bohlen/Anders-Duo, he and his choir-mates Detlef Wiedeke and Michael Scholz were never existing. Some years ago, during the Comeback of Modern Talking, the three singers made it public: they explained that not one single tone on his records was sung by him – which he denies 'til today. The record company paid each of the three 100.000 Marks, just pocket money compared with the incomes the company earned." --Nitendra1 (talk) 09:00, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Ugh ... new level of complexity: another short translation of above: "a bunch of guys did work on an album, got paid poorly, were pissed off, came out saying that they were the only singers and the other guy wasn't, which is denied". ( talk→   BWilkins   ←track ) 09:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I really don't want to include arguments about whether Bohler can sing in this article, otherwise it'll go the way of those white cats that I'm trying to pretend don't exist. Stern is a reliable source though.  I am guessing that any out of court settlement included a "keep your gob shut" clause, which is why there is so little substantive material out there. Elen of the Roads (talk) 09:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I should have added WP:TLDR when I first encounter the statement by the new guy. --Dave1185 (talk) 09:57, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have been asking them to bring translations, so I read it. Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:49, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

My opinion, the entry is total valid and in this is special case deserves to be exonerated of WP:TLDR for the only purpose of let the things clear, there are more than one reliable source for give to this statements the enough consideration.--MT SIB (talk) 11:29, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The question is - how to include the information without breaching WP:UNDUE. I think it can quite appropriately be used to support the already existing statement about the band's characteristic sound being due to their regular support crew.  I would even go to the extent of adding that said support sued for a proportion of royalties on these grounds, and an out of court settlement was reached.  I do not want to see anything about whether or not Deiter Bohlen can sing - if we have an article on him somewhere, maybe it could be added to that. Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:49, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, here the article (LOL), but in german, it says Bohlen never sang in Modern Talking, public declaration made by the same ex-producer of Modern Talking, Ralf Stemman. But if you consider this information don't need to be included, in my opinion is not necessary (we can deduce that), because the original claim was only include the names of the real singers and collaborators and if this was done already, finally I can say victory!!. I don't know if any other will claim something else, with me is enough. Peace and Love.--MT SIB (talk) 00:26, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think it's a very reliable source. I have seen a better version of this article, but i don't know where. I think we can write the truth about the studiosingers and that Dieter never sing in Modern Talking on the wikipedia page. This source is a good proof for that. And i can also search to other articles and sources on the internet about Dieter and the collaboration of Rolf, Detlef and Michael. But i will first waiting for reactions of the other people before i changed the page. 83.83.95.239 (talk) 12:54, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Classification
Let's discuss this, rather than throwing around accusations of nonsense. If Aqua and Barbie girl are Eurodance, I don't see that Modern talking falls into that category. If Synthpop is Kraftwerk, I don't see them fitting that one either. I await other views (of which I know there are several) Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Modern Talking's genre would be categorized best as Europop. Calling an acts' genres Electronic music is incorrect as Electronic music refers to vast majority of dance sounds. In other words, any track that is composed of synthesizers-based sound whether New Wave or Techno or Trance could be viewed as electronic music. The reason why Modern Talking's genre could be viewed either Europop or Eurodance or both is because they have covered europop in their earlier records ('85-'87) (europop could be best described as a pop genre having synthesizer-based sound to it). I would; however, call their later recordings ('98-'03) both Europop and Eurodance as they covered both the Europop as well as the Eurodance (which is a europop leaning more towards techno based genre).--Harout72 (talk) 22:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd give you Europop, I remember Europop. Perhaps I'm viewing Eurodance too narrowly as it's not something I ever listened to (other than that bloody earworm "Barbie Girl")  --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

 * So would I as Europop would be my first choice. Electronic Music; however, must go. --Harout72 (talk) 23:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

just for comment, Modern Talking music is synthpop, not electronic, not eurodance, not techno, it is also know as Disco-Fox or Dance-Fox inside Germany, a music style that has some variations in other countries in Europe (like Discopolo in Poland and Russiandisco in Russia), also in 80's it was called eurodisco or germandisco.--MT SIB (talk) 02:43, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Synthpop and Europop would work for MT. However, I'd like to point out that many of their later recordings (1998-2003) were Eurodance including "You're My Heart, You're My Soul '98", "You Are Not Alone", Sexy, Sexy Love", "Win the Race". In fact, those mentioned tracks cannot be called neither Europop nor Synthpop as they are pure Eurodance numbers. --Harout72 (talk) 06:04, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Can we say that in the article. I think it would make things clearer.Elen of the Roads (talk) 08:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Members
Hi, there's has been a very long fight about the members of the group. Dieter Bohlen NEVER sang anything on Modern Talking, so why he is listed as he has done choruses. Ok, don't put there Systems in Blue members, but, be realistic, Bohlen never sang. -- MisterWiki  talking! :-D  - 15:29, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Saying that Bohlen has never sung is incorrect. Bohlen may not have always produced vocals for choruses of "Modern Talking", but indeed he has contributed vocals this time or another. After all, why wouldn't he or why couldn't he? He was the main singer of his own project "Blue System", wasn't he? He indeed did sing at "Modern Talking's" concerts, didn't he (don't confuse this with promotions of their materials, during which they were almost always on playback). Even the sound engineer has confirmed that Bohlen has always been part of the main voices, see this here. --Harout72 (talk) 01:26, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Maybe when I learn German I would know what does it says. Yes, he did sang on Blue System, but very bad, and not on the choruses. I've heard some of the Modern Talking concerts and he did sang, but on the albums he didn't, that's for sure. -- MisterWiki  talking! :-D  - 02:13, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

You almost sound like you have been present at every Modern Talking recording-session. If you have witnessed Bohlen sing during concerts, what makes you so sure that he couldn't do the same at the recording studio? Your statement above sounds rather ludicrous, don't you think?--Harout72 (talk) 02:58, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, by example can be clearly listened Rolf Kohler's voice on the Dr. Mabuse chorus. Is possible that he could do the same but these are not his voices. -- MisterWiki  talking! :-D  - 13:41, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

You are speculating, that's not what we do here at wikipedia. You again sound like you have been working with Bohlen for years, and now you can tell whether it's his voice or not on a specific track. As I mentioned earlier, he may not have produced vocals for every studio track they've ever released, but that doesn't change the fact that Bohlen can and has sung on the choruses of Modern Talking possibly along with other vocalists but he has participated.--Harout72 (talk) 16:03, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

 * OK. -- MisterWiki  talking! :-D  - 20:21, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Peer review
You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. -- MisterWiki  talking! :-D  - 14:22, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[?] 1
 * Per Manual of Style (headings), headings generally do not start with articles ('the', 'a(n)'). For example, if there was a section called  ==The Biography== , it should be changed to  ==Biography== .[?]
 * Per Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading  ==Magellan's journey== , use  ==Journey== .[?] == The beginning of Modern Talking ==
 * The script has spotted the following contractions: Don't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded.
 * As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2][?] </ref>.,</ref>,,
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

Wikiproject
Please visit WikiProject_Council/Proposals/Modern_Talking and show us your support for a Modern Talking wikiproject.  MisterWiki  talking! :-D   ( SIGN!!! / REVIEW)  - 19:53, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Spanish

 * If someone wants to, please translate this from Spanish language. Thanks. -- MisterWiki  talk   contribs  01:49, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

 * I believe that article is in a great mess, and whoever is fluent in Spanish and willing to put in hours of work, might want to clean up, and remove all poorly sourced statements which the article is full of, not to mention that it contains a lot the same material which the English version of our article was desputed over.--Harout72 (talk) 16:27, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

See Also Section
Please note that we are not to fill this section with names of insignificant acts. There maybe lots of unpopular acts out there covering Modern Talking's materials, that certainly does not mean we need to link them to Modern Talking in any way. --Harout72 (talk) 02:37, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The most important cover band is Talking System, they used the Systems in Blue vocals to make a similar mix to MT. That's why I linked them. -- MisterWiki  talk   contribs  13:46, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Looking at the sources that the statements are supported by at that page, one could easily tell that there is nothing important about them. Bear in mind that sources at wikipedia are to come from highly regarded establishments and that's not what's being demonstrated there at Talking System.--Harout72 (talk) 16:16, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Non-English sources
Can I draw everybody's attention to the matter of sources. I can understand that a lot of the contributors who edit the Modern Talking article will not be from english speaking countries, but the preference for the english language Wikipedia is for its sources to be in english so that they can be easily verified. If no english sources can be found, then foreign language sources have to be translated accurately, either in the main text body or as a footnote (if it is a direct quote), or as a footnote or on the talk page (if it is merely citing a source). Please see WP:NONENG for further information. 80.47.106.231 (talk) 23:09, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid but it's almost impossible to locate English language sources for Modern Talking as they have almost been unknown to the English speaking world. I will, however, try and go over the statements which are supported by German language sources and correct them if they need to be.--Harout72 (talk) 00:05, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you Harout. I can understand that English sources for Modern Talking are harder to find, but if foreign sources are going to be used it's actually the information itself that needs to be included in both German and English, not just the title of the source. For example, if a German source is used that says Modern Talking are the best-selling German music duo in the world (like the one in the current lead section), then the original German wording of that sentence from the source should be included as well as an English translation. If its too long to fit the original German wording into the main article body, then it should be included in the footnotes of the article. If an accurate translation cannot be added for a foreign source, then the source should not be used. This is the problem we face by not using English sources to begin with, as it creates extra work. Unfortunately, a few of the current sources need to be replaced because they are either dead links or they do not support the information they are being cited for - such as the claim that they have sold 120 million records worldwide (which is why it is so important to include an accurate translation). 88.104.28.108 (talk) 13:05, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I have corrected the citation to the statement which mentions about 120 million, I was working on three maybe more browsers at the same time yesterday, and accidentally I must have pasted it in a wrong place. Anyways, that's fixed. I can understand how annoying it sometimes can be when a non-English source is used, and it does take extra time when one wishes to verify the given information. I am not sure where in the article we should include footnote-translations for the key statements, I have come across so many articles at wikipedia which use foreign language sources to support statements, but I have not noticed any footnote-translations. Including footnotes within the same paragraph wherein the source is used would not immediately be correct. Would we perhaps need an entirely new section for it? Is there an article where you might have seen this and can point it out for me so I can get an idea? --Harout72 (talk) 15:25, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

System in Blue
(I'm not a english speaker, so it's possible that my english sounds bad, sorry for that)

I think it is very strange that 'Systems in Blue' removed from the 'see also' section because they have producred oncredited vocals. And 'cc catch' are not removed because it is produced by Bohlen. That is no good reason. Systems in blue are the singers of Modern Talking, they are also important to put it there. There names are not present on the albums (instead of Let's talk about love) because marketing reasons. But Modern Talking exist no longer, so i see no reason to removed there names. And Rolf Kohler, Detlef Wiedeke and Michael scholz has also, like thomas anders, golden records of Modern Talking for there collaboration with Modern Talking as singer. There names are credited on the golden records that they have.

But however, credited or not credited, they are the singers of the modern Talking chorusses, that's a fact! And i also understand that there are much people that don't believe that, because there are never presented on concerts and albums etc and Bohlen has never told about it to the media. But the last years there are more people knows that rolf kohler to be the most important singer of the high pitched chorusses. Like here in the netherlands, germany, spain it's almost known about this. And that's the reason that on the other wikipedia pages about modern talking much more info about SIB (with realible sources of course) are written.

So I don't understand why the words 'Systems in Blue' and the names of the members are not much present here on this page. Explain please. 87.212.141.181 (talk) 20:24, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Those names are briefly discussed within the section of Production and Sales Figure, and that should be enough. System in Blue has no direct relation to Modern Talking nor to any members of the duo; therefore, it's redundant to include their name under See Also. The fact is that the members of System in Blue have never officially been credited for producing vocals on Modern Talking records, and that should explain the exclusion of System in Blue from See also. On the other hand, C.C. Catch is directly related to Dieter Bohlen as all of her records were produced by Bohlen. I hope this clears things up for you.--Harout72 (talk) 20:35, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Genres
Modern Talking's earlier recordings 1984-1987 can be viewed as New Wave. Please discuss before making attempts in removing it. Also see Modern Talking's genres at Allmuic.--Harout72 (talk) 00:06, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

 * If you knew about music, you'd know that MT is not New Wave. New Wave emerged from Punk, and MT never came near PUNK, not before and not after MT, they are pure commercial, ultra-easy, anti-aggressive, conventional, POP. (E-Kartoffel (talk) 00:57, 17 February 2011 (UTC))

You'd be surprised how much I know about music. And yes, lot of MT recordings are simply Europop, but lot of them can also be viewed as New Wave. New Wave genre is not necessarily aggressive, it can also be mellow, yet be called New Wave.--Harout72 (talk) 01:10, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

 * You can't *list* MT at wikipedia as a New Wave group because "it can be viewed" as New Wave. MT are not a New Wave group, they are basically a mainstream pop group and extemely well known for that. They are not even known to be inspired by New Wave. Bohlen was already a Schlager singer, not a Punk, in the late 1970s. He is very happy making commercial easy music. Only allmusic has this list of genres and a very brief profile, with New Wave listed very late (possibly only because New Wave happened at the same time in the early eighties). Is that your only source? That does not qualify for a category entry. No wonder an edit war about the genres is going on here, really. Please only list the group in the main real genre, not the "can be also viewed" ones.(E-Kartoffel (talk) 12:21, 19 February 2011 (UTC))

Dieter Bohlen on Choruses
Removing chorus from Dieter Bohlen's name from the members-section as user E-Kartoffel in this edit has is incorrect. Note that Thomas Anders has not been officially addressed anywhere on Modern Talking's materials as the lead vocalist, yet he is, in the same vein, regardless that it's not stated anywhere on Modern Talking albums/singles that Bohlen has produced some/all vocals on choruses, he has. Please do not remove without discussing it first.--Harout72 (talk) 00:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

 * I see you claim to be interested in the music industry? How?.... First of all: there are only two *members* of Modern Talking: Anders and Bohlen, so the section must not be named *Members*, Second: the list is extremely incomplete: Rodriguez is only one of many producers MT worked with and they *are credited*, other musicians are also credited, like for example the future Systems in Blue, and lead guitarists etc.. And yes Dieter Bohlen *can occasionally be heard singing* on MT records (and additionally it is known that he mimed to voices of session musicians), if you take this as reason enough to credit him with "chorus" and leaving out at the same time the people who arranged and sung the vocals on MT records, your decision can be considered very tendentious. (E-Kartoffel (talk) 00:55, 17 February 2011 (UTC))

 * I don't mind at all if you want to call the section Member and Contributers, I simply reverted much of your edits to an older version. However, we are to include the names of those musicians and producers who have officially been credited for their specific contributions. That would leave System in Blue's musicians out for having produced vocals, if they in fact have sung on all MT records. By the way, I only see those names, Birger Corleis, Rolf Kohler, Michael Scholz, Ralf Stermman, Dieter Wideeke having been thanked along with Arnie Studio and all the fans of Modern Talking on the second album Let's Talk About Love, no specifics whatsoever as to whether they are being thanked for singing or something else. I hope you don't similarly suggest that we include the names of all the fans only because it is stated on there.--Harout72 (talk) 01:26, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Seems like we are never going to get out of this stupid problem. These guys did contribute with their vocals, despite not being credited, but that does not mean they were members of the group. Suggest adding, the box with the real, credited members, and an explained section regarding disputes as to whether those people actually were hired to do those vocals or not, and if so, adding a similar box. What do you think? Diego Grez (talk) 02:45, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay there is no satisfying credit from MT for the Systems in Blue members on the MT records (but hasn't Bohlen reverted this somehow later? can't there be references found?) Plus: I wonder if the word of Systems in Blue does not count. Is there a need to insist on the state of information of 1988? (no, I guess). There is no need to call them group members, they are session musicians who contributed to the project Modern Talking, and that always has been Anders and Bohlen. Even when Eric Singleton was a contributor, the cover still showed the duo, therefore Singleton is more a guest on vocals. It is the same with the producers involved, you don't call record producers group members, like George Martin was not a member of The Beatles. The early MT releases had very little information about, but later this changed a bit, discogs.com is quite informative for credits. In my opinion it is really important that the section should be renamed "Members and contributors" and an introduction would also be fine: noone will be hurt (E-Kartoffel (talk) 11:32, 19 February 2011 (UTC))

The participation of Rolf Köhler, Michael Scholz, Detlef Wiedeke and Birger Corleis is briefly discussed within the section of Production and Sales. But again, the source provided does mention that they never were credited for their work. As for Discogs.com, it's not a reliable source as it can be edited by anybody, also see WP:RSN. To wrap this up and not make it unnecessarily long, we could perhaps agree on changing Members into Members and Contributers, that, I believe, would be more of a logical title.--Harout72 (talk) 17:41, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Merger from Thomas Anders v. Dieter Bohlen
The article Thomas Anders v. Dieter Bohlen doesn't appear to be notable on its own. It would be suitable as a portion of this page—perhaps chopped down considerably from its current state, as it may have some WP:BLP issues. (The translation from German is weak, so I can't tell for sure.) Would this be amenable? // ⌘macwhiz (talk) 02:56, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

 * In my opinion that is not an article to keep and should not be merged with this. It should be listed for WP:AfD.--Harout72 (talk) 06:04, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough; I don't know Modern Talking from Look Who's Talking so I didn't want to presume. People sometimes get touchy about things like that. :) // ⌘macwhiz (talk) 19:53, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Reference by Knife Party
Knife Party's first EP is entitled, "100% No Modern Talking". Could this be a reference to this group? 7 June 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.182.29.199 (talk) 23:08, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Modern Talking


text:
Talk:Pterosaur

QN Quetzalcoatlus did not have additional control surfaces
I was involved in the design of MacCready's QN Quetzalcoatlus. The statement in the main article that extra control surfaces were added to the model is absolutely incorrect. A main point of the project was to show that the technology of that time allowed for a highly natural like flight design for the replica.

Where there was a major error is that during the mid 1980s it was widely thought that the main wing membrane did not attach to the legs, so the latter were folded up along the body like in flying birds. Hence the model lacked the elevator controls that could be obtained by having the main membrane attached to the ankles and the legs extended laterally and posteriorly.

Control was achieved by using the head for a rudder effect -- biomechanically dubious -- and varying the sweep of the wings forward and back for pitch control. It worked reasonably well and showed that a flying creatures flight could be replicated at a basic level by not resorting to extra aerodynamic surfaces.

The main article should be modified to correct the inaccurate information.

Gregory Paul — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.220.159.5 (talk) 00:19, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

 * You're correct, of course. I assume the tail used in launching gave rise to this misunderstanding.--MWAK (talk) 18:40, 7 October 2019 (UTC)

Pycnofibres in all pterosaurs
"Most or all pterosaurs had hair-like filaments known as pycnofibers on the head and torso" Is there any primary research to support the "most or all"? As far as I know there is only evidence of pycnofibres in a few select taxa (Sordes, Jeholopterus, Pterorhynchus); it seems to me that it's quite the assumption to make that ALL pterosaurs had pycnofibres given the scarcity of data. 2A02:C7F:6017:E900:98B5:946F:ACD2:EDC5 (talk) 09:56, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

New Pterosaur
I found this https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.17.879783v1.full. Joan Wiffens Pterosaur was described, they named it Parirau ataroa or something like that--Bubblesorg (talk) 15:14, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

 * We should start a new article for this new pterosaur then. I've read part of the paper, and the phylogenetic analysis is very blurred, but it's explained at the bottom of it. From what I understood, a major change is that Pteranodontidae is grouped within Ornithocheirae, and sister taxon to either Ornithocheiridae or Targaryendraconia. So, if this is true, looks like we have to do a lot of work on these pterosaur articles on their classification? But then again, we could always wait for another paper supporting this conclusion. Jurassic Classic 767  (talk | contribs) 15:39, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
 * sure--Bubblesorg (talk) 18:11, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Edit request
In the Pterosaur section, in the first sentence it currently says "by Richard Owen named as Dimorphodon,", this should be changed to "named as Dimorphodon by Richard Owen," as that makes more grammatical sense.146.112.56.112 (talk) 03:13, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ MxWondrous (talk) 15:58, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Why is there passive aggressive comments in the article? It’s unprofessional and should be reworded to be clear to the reader.

If the person who made these edits is so sure as to their fact, why not rewrite the wording instead of adding arbitrary clauses that take away from the information in the article.

The whole Evolution and Extinction part of the article seems to just be rambling on about research disagreements rather than explaining the current selected research findings that we point to.

The discussions raised aren’t specific, it’s fine to say that evolution and extinction of Pterosaurs has conflicting research but it doesn’t need that much detail and it reads like a university essay.

This is especially exacerbated when there is an entire section on the page about “History of Discovery” which is where that should go. If a user clicks on the extinction portion of the page, they don’t expect to be given a full historical rundown of different researchers who disagreed with each other. Polarctic (talk) 17:30, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Pterosaur


text:
User:Apayne

Just a beginning.

title: User:Apayne


text:
J. L. Odea

J.L. Odea (born 1884) was a male doubles tennis player.

Odea was the men's doubles champion runner-up at the inaugural Australasian Championships in 1910 with Rodney Heath.

Grand Slam Titles

 * Doubles:
 * Australian Open Runner-up: 1910 with Rodney Heath

title: J. L. Odea


text: User talk:70.180.156.136

title: User talk:70.180.156.136


text: User talk:80.6.98.187

title: User talk:80.6.98.187


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Grey (manga)

Grey (stylized as GREY) is a Japanese science fiction manga created by Yoshihisa Tagami that was published in the 1980s. It has also been adapted into an animated feature film under the title Grey: Digital Target.

Premise
The world is covered in wastelands that are dotted with numbered "Towns". All Towns are supervised by computers called "Little Mamas" (nodes connected to the world governing super-computer called "Big Mama"); the underprivileged live in the slums and are referred to as "People". One can only become one of the privileged "Citizens" by joining the army and fighting the other Towns' forces, as the Towns are continually at war with one another. Soldier Grey, on track to become a Citizen, earns the nickname "Grey Death" for his tenacity on the battlefield and ability to survive when the rest of his comrades are killed. Grey's field commander, a man that saved his life many times, is lost in the African sector. He goes looking for him, discovering who and what the resistance fighters are, why the Towns are all different in both military might and how they are run, and what the true secret of "Big Mama" is.

Reception
In the introduction to the Viz Media English adaptation, Harlan Ellison compared Grey to his own type of hard-edged speculative fiction.

Film
Where the manga stays on a downward spiral of tragedy, a few choices in the anime adaptation provide some hope to Grey and his companions.

Helen McCarthy praised the film in her book 500 Essential Anime Movies as being "intelligently written". She stated that "although the animation is dated, this is one of the most poignant and compelling anime ever made", calling it a "bleak yet uncompromisingly courageous view of the individual choices and chances against the system".

Justin Sevakis from Anime News Network commented about the film as one of the "few anime that genuinely says something original about the world and societies in which we live, and perhaps one of the better ones is Grey: Digital Target". He felt it was "incredibly rushed, relying on a combination of quick flashbacks and bland dialogue to do the sort of narrative and dramatic heavy lifting that a better show would have conveyed visually". This detriment causes the character development to be "are more or less wasted" and didn't produce "any sort of real attachment". He praised the film with its "thought provoking ideas—ideas with roots in the revolutionary ideas of a teenager, but with the understanding of the world that only an adult can bring" but admittedly, it "has too many flaws to be recommended wholeheartedly".

Influence
In 2022, Lawrence English used Grey as the basis for his album Approach.

title: Grey (manga)


text:
User talk:Hell phoenix

Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 03:00, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Hell phoenix


text:
Real-Time Messaging Protocol

Real-Time Messaging Protocol (RTMP) is a communication protocol for streaming audio, video, and data over the Internet. Originally developed as a proprietary protocol by Macromedia for streaming between Flash Player and the Flash Communication Server, Adobe (which acquired Macromedia) has released an incomplete version of the specification of the protocol for public use.

The RTMP protocol has multiple variations:
 * 1) RTMP proper, the "plain" protocol which works on top of Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) and uses port number 1935 by default.
 * 2) RTMPS, which is RTMP over a Transport Layer Security (TLS/SSL) connection.
 * 3) RTMPE, which is RTMP encrypted using Adobe's own security mechanism. While the details of the implementation are proprietary, the mechanism uses industry standard cryptographic primitives.
 * 4) RTMPT, which is encapsulated within HTTP requests to traverse firewalls. RTMPT is frequently found utilizing cleartext requests on TCP ports 80 and 443 to bypass most corporate traffic filtering. The encapsulated session may carry plain RTMP, RTMPS, or RTMPE packets within.
 * 5) RTMFP, which is RTMP over User Datagram Protocol (UDP) instead of TCP, replacing RTMP Chunk Stream. The Secure Real-Time Media Flow Protocol suite has been developed by Adobe Systems and enables end‐users to connect and communicate directly with each other (P2P).

While the primary motivation for RTMP was to be a protocol for playing Flash video, it is also used in some other applications, such as the Adobe LiveCycle Data Services ES.

Basic operation
RTMP is a TCP-based protocol which maintains persistent connections and allows low-latency communication. To deliver streams smoothly and transmit as much information as possible, it splits streams into fragments, and their size is negotiated dynamically between the client and server. Sometimes, it is kept unchanged; the default fragment sizes are 64 bytes for audio data, and 128 bytes for video data and most other data types. Fragments from different streams may then be interleaved, and multiplexed over a single connection. With longer data chunks, the protocol thus carries only a one-byte header per fragment, so incurring very little overhead. However, in practice, individual fragments are not typically interleaved. Instead, the interleaving and multiplexing is done at the packet level, with RTMP packets across several different active channels being interleaved in such a way as to ensure that each channel meets its bandwidth, latency, and other quality-of-service requirements. Packets interleaved in this fashion are treated as indivisible, and are not interleaved on the fragment level.

The RTMP defines several virtual channels on which packets may be sent and received, and which operate independently of each other. For example, there is a channel for handling RPC requests and responses, a channel for video stream data, a channel for audio stream data, a channel for out-of-band control messages (fragment size negotiation, etc.), and so on. During a typical RTMP session, several channels may be active simultaneously at any given time. When RTMP data is encoded, a packet header is generated. The packet header specifies, amongst other matters, the ID of the channel on which it is to be sent, a timestamp of when it was generated (if necessary), and the size of the packet's payload. This header is then followed by the actual payload content of the packet, which is fragmented according to the currently agreed-upon fragment size before it is sent over the connection. The packet header itself is never fragmented, and its size does not count towards the data in the packet's first fragment. In other words, only the actual packet payload (the media data) is subject to fragmentation.

At a higher level, the RTMP encapsulates MP3 or AAC audio and FLV1 video multimedia streams, and can make remote procedure calls (RPCs) using the Action Message Format. Any RPC services required are made asynchronously, using a single client/server request/response model, such that real-time communication is not required.

Encryption
RTMP sessions may be encrypted using either of two methods:
 * Using industry standard TLS/SSL mechanisms. The underlying RTMP session is simply wrapped inside a normal TLS/SSL session.
 * Using RTMPE, which wraps the RTMP session in a lighter-weight encryption layer.

HTTP tunneling
In RTMP Tunneled (RTMPT), RTMP data is encapsulated and exchanged via HTTP, and messages from the client (the media player, in this case) are addressed to port 80 (the default for HTTP) on the server.

While the messages in RTMPT are larger than the equivalent non-tunneled RTMP messages due to HTTP headers, RTMPT may facilitate the use of RTMP in scenarios where the use of non-tunneled RTMP would otherwise not be possible, such as when the client is behind a firewall that blocks non-HTTP and non-HTTPS outbound traffic.

The protocol works by sending commands through the POST URL, and AMF messages through the POST body. An example is

POST /open/1 HTTP/1.1

for a connection to be opened.

Specification document and patent license
Adobe has released a specification for version 1.0 of the protocol, dated 21 December 2012. The web landing page leading to that specification notes that "To benefit customers who want to protect their content, the open RTMP specification does not include Adobe's unique secure RTMP measures".

A document accompanying the Adobe specification grants "non-exclusive, royalty-free, nontransferable, non-sublicensable, personal, worldwide" patent license to all implementations of the protocol, with two restrictions: one forbids use for intercepting streaming data ("any technology that intercepts streaming video, audio and/or data content for storage in any device or medium"), and another prohibits circumvention of "technological measures for the protection of audio, video and/or data content, including any of Adobe’s secure RTMP measures".

Patents and related litigation
Stefan Richter, author of some books on Flash, noted in 2008 that while Adobe is vague as to which patents apply to RTMP, appears to be one of them.

In 2011, Adobe did sue Wowza Media Systems claiming, among other things, infringement of their RTMP patents. In 2015, Adobe and Wowza announced that the lawsuits have been settled and dismissed with prejudice.

Packet structure

Packets are sent over a TCP connection, which is established first between client and server. They contain a header and a body which, in the case of connection and control commands, is encoded using the Action Message Format (AMF). The header is split into the Basic Header (shown as detached from the rest, in the diagram) and Chunk Message Header. The Basic Header is the only constant part of the packet and is usually composed of a single composite byte, where the two most significant bits are the Chunk Type (fmt in the specification) and the rest form the Stream ID. Depending on the value of the former, some fields of the Message Header can be omitted, and their value derived from previous packets while depending on the value of the latter, the Basic Header can be extended with one or two extra bytes (as in the case of the diagramme that has three bytes in total (c)). If the value of the remaining six bits of the Basic Header (BH) (least significant) is 0 then the BH is two bytes and represents from Stream ID 64 to 319 (64+255); if the value is 1, then the BH is three bytes (with last two bytes encoded as 16bit Little Endian) and represents from Stream ID 64 to 65599 (64+65535); if the value is 2, then BH is one byte and is reserved for low-level protocol control messages and commands. The Chunk Message Header contains meta-data information such as the message size (measured in bytes), the Timestamp Delta and Message Type. This last value is a single byte and defines whether the packet is an audio, video, command or "low level" RTMP packet such as an RTMP Ping.

An example is shown below as captured when a flash client executes the following code:

this will generate the following Chunk:

The packet starts with a Basic Header of a single byte (0x03) where the two most significant bits (b00000011) define a chunk header type of 0 while the rest (b00000011) define a Chunk Stream ID of 3. The four possible values of the header type and their significance are:
 * b00 = 12 byte header (full header).
 * b01 = 8 bytes - like type b00, not including message ID (4 last bytes).
 * b10 = 4 bytes - Basic Header and timestamp (3 bytes) are included.
 * b11 = 1 byte - only the Basic Header is included.

The last type (b11) is always used in the case of aggregate messages where, in the example above, the second message will start with an id of 0xC3 (b11000011) and would mean that all Message Header fields should be derived from the message with a stream Id of 3 (which would be the message right above it). The six least significant bits that form the Stream ID can take values between 3 and 63. Some values have special meaning, like 1 that stands for an extended ID format, in which case there will be two bytes following that. A value of two is for low level messages such as Ping and Set Client Bandwidth.

The next bytes of the RTMP Header (including the values in the example packet above) are decoded as follows:

 * byte #1 (0x03)  = Chunk Header Type.
 * byte #2-4 (0x000b68) = Timestamp delta.
 * byte #5-7 (0x000019) = Packet Length - in this case it is 0x000019 = 25 bytes.
 * byte #8 (0x14)  = Message Type ID - 0x14 (20) defines an AMF0 encoded command message.
 * byte #9-12 (0x00000000) = Message Stream ID. This is in little-endian order.

The Message Type ID byte defines whether the packet contains audio/video data, a remote object or a command. Some possible values for are:

 * 0x01 = Set Packet Size Message.
 * 0x02 = Abort.
 * 0x03 = Acknowledge.
 * 0x04 = Control Message.
 * 0x05 = Server Bandwidth
 * 0x06 = Client Bandwidth.
 * 0x07 = Virtual Control.
 * 0x08 = Audio Packet.
 * 0x09 = Video Packet.
 * 0x0F = Data Extended.
 * 0x10 = Container Extended.
 * 0x11 = Command Extended (An AMF3 type command).
 * 0x12 = Data (Invoke (onMetaData info is sent as such)).
 * 0x13 = Container.
 * 0x14 = Command (An AMF0 type command).
 * 0x15 = UDP
 * 0x16 = Aggregate
 * 0x17 = Present

Following the header, 0x02 denotes a string of size 0x000C and values 0x63 0x72 ... 0x6D ("createStream" command). Following that we have a 0x00 (number) which is the transaction id of value 2.0. The last byte is 0x05 (null) which means there are no arguments.

Invoke Message Structure (0x14, 0x11)
Some of the message types shown above, such as Ping and Set Client/Server Bandwidth, are considered low level RTMP protocol messages which do not use the AMF encoding format. Command messages on the other hand, whether AMF0 (Message Type of 0x14) or AMF3 (0x11), use the format and have the general form shown below:

(String)  (Number)  (Mixed)  ex. Null, String, Object: {key1:value1, key2:value2 ... }

The transaction id is used for commands that can have a reply. The value can be either a string like in the example above or one or more objects, each composed of a set of key/value pairs where the keys are always encoded as strings while the values can be any AMF data type, including complex types like arrays.

Control Message Structure (0x04)
Control messages are not AMF encoded. They start with a stream Id of 0x02 which implies a full (type 0) header and have a message type of 0x04. The header is followed by six bytes, which are interpreted as such:
 * #0-1 - Control Type.
 * #2-3 - Second Parameter (this has meaning in specific Control Types)
 * #4-5 - Third Parameter (same)

The first two bytes of the message body define the Ping Type, which can apparently take six possible values.

 * Type 0 - Clear Stream: Sent when the connection is established and carries no further data
 * Type 1 - Clear the Buffer.
 * Type 2 - Stream Dry.
 * Type 3 - The client's buffer time. The third parameter holds the value in millisecond.
 * Type 4 - Reset a stream.
 * Type 6 - Ping the client from server. The second parameter is the current time.
 * Type 7 - Pong reply from client. The second parameter is the time when the client receives the Ping.
 * Type 8 - UDP Request.
 * Type 9 - UDP Response.
 * Type 10 - Bandwidth Limit.
 * Type 11 - Bandwidth.
 * Type 12 - Throttle Bandwidth.
 * Type 13 - Stream Created.
 * Type 14 - Stream Deleted.
 * Type 15 - Set Read Access.
 * Type 16 - Set Write Access.
 * Type 17 - Stream Meta Request.
 * Type 18 - Stream Meta Response.
 * Type 19 - Get Segment Boundary.
 * Type 20 - Set Segment Boundary.
 * Type 21 - On Disconnect.
 * Type 22 - Set Critical Link.
 * Type 23 - Disconnect.
 * Type 24 - Hash Update.
 * Type 25 - Hash Timeout.
 * Type 26 - Hash Request.
 * Type 27 - Hash Response.
 * Type 28 - Check Bandwidth.
 * Type 29 - Set Audio Sample Access.
 * Type 30 - Set Video Sample Access.
 * Type 31 - Throttle Begin.
 * Type 32 - Throttle End.
 * Type 33 - DRM Notify.
 * Type 34 - RTMFP Sync.
 * Type 35 - Query IHello.
 * Type 36 - Forward IHello.
 * Type 37 - Redirect IHello.
 * Type 38 - Notify EOF.
 * Type 39 - Proxy Continue.
 * Type 40 - Proxy Remove Upstream.
 * Type 41 - RTMFP Set Keepalives.
 * Type 46 - Segment Not Found.

Pong is the name for a reply to a Ping, with the values used as seen above.

ServerBw/ClientBw Message Structure (0x05, 0x06)
This relates to messages that have to do with the client up-stream and server down-stream bit-rate. The body is composed of four bytes showing the bandwidth value, with a possible extension of one byte which sets the Limit Type. This can have one of three possible values which can be: hard, soft or dynamic (either soft or hard).

Set Chunk Size (0x01)
The value received in the four bytes of the body. A default value of 128 bytes exists, and the message is sent only when a change is wanted.

Handshake
After establishing a TCP connection, an RTMP connection is established first, performing a handshake through the exchange of three packets from each side (also referred to as Chunks in the official documentation). These are referred in the official spec as C0-2 for the client sent packets and S0-2 for the server side respectively and are not to be confused with RTMP packets that can be exchanged only after the handshake is complete. These packets have a structure of their own and C1 contains a field setting the "epoch" timestamp, but since this can be set to zero, as is done in third party implementations, the packet can be simplified. The client initialises the connection by sending the C0 packet with a constant value of 0x03 representing the current protocol version. It follows straight with C1 without waiting for S0 to be received first which contains 1536 bytes, with the first four representing the epoch timestamp, the second four all being 0, and the rest being random (and which can be set to 0 in third party implementations). C2 and S2 are an echo of S1 and C1 respectively, except with the second four bytes being the time the respective message was received (instead of 0). After C2 and S2 are received, the handshake is considered complete.

Connect
At this point, the client, and server can negotiate a connection by exchanging AMF encoded messages. These include key value pairs which relate to variables that are needed for a connection to be established. An example message from the client is:

The Flash Media Server and other implementations uses the concept of an "app" to conceptually define a container for audio/video and other content, implemented as a folder on the server root which contains the media files to be streamed. The first variable contains the name of this app as "sample" which is the name provided by the Wowza Server for their testing. The  string is the same as returned by the Action-script   function. The  and   are encoded as doubles and their meaning can be found in the original spec. The same is true for the  variable, which in this case is the self-explanatory SUPPORT_VID_CLIENT_SEEK constant. Of special interest is the  which will define whether the rest of the communication will make use of the extended AMF3 format or not. As version 3 is the current default, the flash client has to be told explicitly in Action-script code to use AMF0 if that is requested. The server then replies with a ServerBW, a ClientBW and a SetPacketSize message sequence, finally followed by an Invoke, with an example message.

Some values above are serialised into properties of a generic Action-script Object, which is then passed to the NetConnection event listener. The  will establish a number for the session to be started by the connection. Object encoding must match the value previously set.

Play video
To start a video stream, the client sends a "createStream" invocation followed by a ping message, followed by a "play" invocation with the file name as argument. The server will then reply with a series of "onStatus" commands followed by the video data as encapsulated within RTMP messages.

After a connection is established, media is sent by encapsulating the content of FLV tags into RTMP messages of type 8 and 9 for audio and video, respectively.

HTTP tunneling (RTMPT)
This refers to the HTTP tunneled version of the protocol. It communicates over port 80 and passes the AMF data inside HTTP POST request and responses. The sequence for connection is as follows:

The first request has an /fcs/ident2 path, and the correct reply is a 404 Not Found error. The client then sends an /open/1 request where the server must reply with a 200 ok appending a random number that will be used as the session identifier for the said communication. In this example, 1728724019 is returned in the response body.

From now on, the /idle/ / is a polling request where the session id has been generated and returned from the server and the sequence is just a number that increments by one for every request. The appropriate response is a 200 OK, with an integer returned in the body signifying the interval time. AMF data is sent through /send/ /

Software implementations
RTMP is implemented at these three stages:
 * Live video encoder
 * Live and on-demand media streaming server
 * Live and on-demand client

rtmpdump
The open-source RTMP client command-line tool rtmpdump is designed to play back or save to disk the full RTMP stream, including the RTMPE protocol Adobe uses for encryption. RTMPdump runs on Linux, Android, Solaris, Mac OS X, and most other Unix-derived operating systems, as well as Microsoft Windows. Originally supporting all versions of 32-bit Windows including Windows 98, from version 2.2 the software will run only on Windows XP and above (although earlier versions remain fully functional).

Packages of the rtmpdump suite of software are available in the major open-source repositories (Linux distributions). These include the front-end apps "rtmpdump", "rtmpsrv" and "rtmpsuck."

Development of RTMPdump was restarted in October 2009, outside the United States, at the MPlayer site. The current version features greatly improved functionality, and has been rewritten to take advantage of the benefits of the C programming language. In particular, the main functionality was built into a library (librtmp) which can easily be used by other applications. The RTMPdump developers have also written support for librtmp for MPlayer, FFmpeg, XBMC, cURL, VLC and a number of other open source software projects. Use of librtmp provides these projects with full support of RTMP in all its variants without any additional development effort.

FLVstreamer
FLVstreamer is a fork of RTMPdump, without the code, which Adobe claims violates the DMCA in the USA. This was developed as a response to Adobe's attempt in 2008 to suppress RTMPdump. FLVstreamer is an RTMP client that will save a stream of audio or video content from any RTMP server to disk, if encryption (RTMPE) is not enabled on the stream.

Enhanced RTMP
Flash video container in RTMP is limited to H264 codec in most implementations. For this reason, The Veovera Software Organization, including Adobe, Google and Veriskope  published the enhanced RTMP specification, which adds support for VP9, H265 and AV1 codecs in the Flash Video container FLV.

Implementations

 * ffmpeg (since 6.1)
 * OBS Studio 29.1
 * YouTube (Beta, same ingest parameters as h264)
 * Twitch

title: Real-Time Messaging Protocol


text:
RF2

RF2 may refer to:

 * Red Faction II, a 2002 video game
 * rFactor 2, a 2013 video game
 * Konami RF2 (a.k.a. Konami GT), a 1985 arcade game

title: RF2


text:
Talk:Grant Munro (footballer)

Untitled
Oops, looks like there should be a disambiguation page for Grant Munro. I was looking for the actor/animator/filmmaker Grant Munro, who acted in and co-directed the Canadian short "Neighbors" with Norman McLaren.

-- Evan, 10/10/05

External links modified
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title: Talk:Grant Munro (footballer)


text: User talk:69.240.205.46

title: User talk:69.240.205.46


text: User talk:69.113.202.59

title: User talk:69.113.202.59


text:
Ali Asad (cricketer, born 1988)

Ali Asad (born 25 December 1988) is a Pakistani cricketer. A left-handed batsman and wicket-keeper, he represents Karachi cricket teams, having played for their Whites, Blues, Zebras and Dolphins sides. He scored his maiden first-class century in only his third match, while opening the batting for Karachi Blues against Peshawar. He has also represented Pakistan Under-19s, averaging 37.20 in Under-19 Test matches, and 45.40 in Under-19 One Day Internationals.

He was the leading run-scorer for National Bank of Pakistan in the 2017–18 Quaid-e-Azam Trophy, with 487 runs in seven matches. He was also the leading run-scorer for National Bank of Pakistan in the 2018–19 Quaid-e-Azam Trophy, with 371 runs in seven matches.

In September 2019, he was named in Northern's squad for the 2019–20 Quaid-e-Azam Trophy tournament.

title: Ali Asad (cricketer, born 1988)


text:
Talk:Pursuit curve

Untitled
see Radiodrome --W!B: 03:04, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The definition given is ambiguous: "there is for every t with F′(t) ≠ 0 an x such that"

does this mean:

"for every t with F′(t) ≠ 0, there is an x, such that"

or :

"there is an x, for every t with F′(t) ≠ 0, such that" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.55.114.246 (talk) 16:39, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

radiodrome
I suppose that (a-x^2) should be (a-x)^2; moreover a should be defined. In what I feel the most usual definition the pursued moves on the line x=0 and so a-x is simply x. pietro151.29.178.90 (talk) 06:35, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pursuit curve


text:
User talk:Taber~enwiki

Hi.

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Taber. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Taber~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 02:57, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 19:26, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Taber~enwiki


text: User talk:203.125.212.68

title: User talk:203.125.212.68