text:
User talk:Huaiwei/Archive G

too long for my PC, try breaking into sectionss

 * It just means, time to archive your talkpage! =D =P - Mailer Diablo 15:37, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Manila MRT
Hey Huaiwei. Guess what... while several pages point at Manila Mass Rail Transit System, there's an article at Manila Metro Rail Transit System. What is it actually called? :-) — Instantnood 15:13, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * I am surprised you are the one asking me this when you are seemingly trying to demonstrate your familiarity with the terms used around the world's rail systems? There is such a thing as official internet websites to check up on. As before, I suppose you didnt check before shooting off comments and being disruptive, have you?--Huaiwei 15:20, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Fine. You start the conversation here by challenging my familiarity and saying I'm disruptive. Do you actually want to discuss on anything? — Instantnood 15:26, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Anyways let me assume you still got the willingness to discuss. As a matter of fact a search of site:gov.ph on Google shows that both Mass Rail Transit and Metro Rail Transit are used. — Instantnood 15:35, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * I am pretty sure I am perfectly capable of holding a normal conversaion or a productive discussion. But I am not so sure when it is dealing with someone who just tried to verhemently put his view across, and now suddenly turns around and claim ignorance over an issue like this, which can easily be verified online. I simply cannot see why you are asking me this question, unless you are testing waters here again?--Huaiwei 15:33, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Cool. You're accusing me, again, to have tried to "verhemently put his view across". Who's the one actually vehemently putting her/his view across? — Instantnood 15:38, August 7, 2005 (UTC) (modified at 15:46, August 7, 2005 (UTC))
 * Why do you think I am "accusing" you if you suddenly ask me who I am refering to?--Huaiwei 15:40, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * BTW instantnood, would you mind not editing your replies and changing their meaning when other have already replied to you? I just caught you doing this TWICE here.--Huaiwei 15:50, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * No. I changed it right after it is saved, but you're responding so quickly that at the time I previewed my edit you've already responded. Anyways it's fine if you feel like satisfied by "catching people" doing this and that, when she/he doesn't mean to be. — Instantnood 15:54, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Well I have to respond real fast least I get blocked at any time, you know? lol. Ok dumb jokes aside, I dont derive pleasure from doing this "catching" game, and certainly not to your level of proficiency or determination. I am seeing this because I get a big yellow banner on top everytime anyone edits my talk page, and since I see no new replies, I end up seeing edit history to see what the changes are. And no...I dont think it is possible to "preview" something and having it seen by me before you clicked "save page", so I obviously replied after you are done with your previewing.--Huaiwei 15:59, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * No. I clicked edit to change my own wordings before I saw your reply. After it's done and previewed, when I saved it there's an edit conflict warning. I.e. you responded when I wa making the minor edit. — Instantnood 16:04, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Then that is not called "previewing" your replies. That is called "editing your replies to change the meaning even when there is a warning that I have already replied based on your original comment".--Huaiwei 16:08, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I won't comment on anybody's English proficiency, but I guess it's pretty clear that I'm talking about the "show preview" function. I tried to modify my saved comment before you responded. It happened that you responded before my modification was saved. — Instantnood 16:11, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, but as I just said, if you are editing your reply, and if you click show preview, and I replied to your original post....once you click save, the edit conflict warning is going to appear exactly as you describe above. My question then, is why did you not halt your edits at this juncture, and decided to go ahead with the edit despite knowing full well that I have already replied? English proficiency? I think that is not the main issue here. Logic seems to be pretty endangered on the other hand.--Huaiwei 16:16, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * You responded to what I did not mean to say. Would you mind changing your response after recognising I've modified my comment? There are too many edit conflicts on your talk page and it's impossible to halt my edit whenever you've responded at something. Imagine the time lapse in between after seeing the edit conflict warning for two or three times. — Instantnood 16:33, August 7, 2005 (UTC) (modified 16:35, August 7, 2005, 16:45, August 7, 2005 (UTC))
 * What does the edit warring has got to do with my talk page?--Huaiwei 16:39, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh wait...so you are talking about edit conflicts eh? Misread that. Still, I dont see why this "conversation" should carry on? Its wasting too much of my time.--Huaiwei 16:48, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure. So what's your opinion with the Manila mass transit system? Both "Mass Rail Transit" and "Metro Rail Transit" are found by searching on site:gov.ph with Google. — Instantnood 16:51, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Re : Image help....
Hi Huaiwei,

So sorry to be more irregular on Wikipedia for these two weeks...I was carried away with another project my friend and I have started with during this period of time. =D You can say I'm somewhat on semi-WikiVacation now, and will be for another 1-2 weeks due to upcoming big exams.

It is not unusual to have a longer-than-usual delay in IFD processing. It just means that there is a backlog that a sysop has yet to clear up. You can try tagging the images with and see if it helps in speeding up the process. Don't worry though, it'll eventually be deleted for sure.

If you need anything or/and don't see me return by the 15th August, drop an email at my new temporary email -> ''studentssketchpad  hotmail .dot. com'' to remind me to come back. My old email is pretty much dead now, as my old website is largely shut down. (other than for the purpose of image hosting).

- Cheers & Best Regards, Mailer Diablo 17:23, 7 August 2005 (UTC) :)
 * Hoho....thanks for the reply there. ;) I suppose I will just have to be more patient then. Anyway, I tot you wanted to be on internet-vacation, and not just taking time off from wikipedia! lol! Whatever the case, good luck in your upcoming exams, a word I didnt have to use anymore since last month. Weehehe! :D--Huaiwei 17:30, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * lol, thanks for the encouragement though. :) - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 17:43, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Re: Image move
Oh you've just come in on me at the perfect right time! :-D 'Cos I've found a perfect example (Image:Hk map 18.png), which is in fact a map drawn by me and later moved by another wikiuser. You may just upload your image to the Commons, and ignore the image uploaded here. Then add a template like this: into the image page in Wikipedia, creating an interwiki link. Of course you may also delete the image in Wikipedia; that's up to you. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 17:37, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I tot of doing that, but I wont be able to upload the file with the same filename in the commons if it is already in use here, right? This is rhe reason why I didnt just upload it there. Or was I wrong in this assumption? Thanks for your help again! :D--Huaiwei 05:58, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Other tools for moving and deletion are move to Wikimedia Commons and dbc. :-D — Instantnood 18:11, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Edit summaries
I've bitched about our friend Instantnood not using edit summaries before. If you'd use more of them, life would be helpful and I'd be gracious! :) SchmuckyTheCat 08:52, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Haha....actually I did religiously used edit summaries during my earlier days in wikipedia, until I stopped doing it recently after realising someone is tailing each and every one of my edits!--Huaiwei 09:30, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

suspicious nomination on 3RR
I saw your name on WP:3RR. If this nomination was made in bad faith in order to harras you you may complain on WP:RfAr. Pavel Vozenilek 22:49, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Temasek Holdings
Hi Huaiwei. I have started a discussion of Temasek Holdings' share in SPH at SPH's talk page. Please join. Thanx. 165.21.154.115 02:36, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Hot pot
Thanks. Actually I was a bit cautious in using "Greater China", for the term is, as far as I know, rarely heard outside of economics and trade. I'm fine with it, anyways. :-) — Instantnood 06:52, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, unless you somehow consider that term inappriopriate, I would certain use it over a whole string of words when 2 is all that is neccesary.--Huaiwei 07:06, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

List of office holders
It's hard to believe that presenting of facts could be sinister, underhand and unethical, and I suppose you have been doing something similar (tho much of your accusations may not be the real side of the facts). I would like to demand an explanation for your remarks at user:Calton's talk page. Please illustrate if my remarks were sinister, and if any part of my remarks were not based on facts. Thank you. — Instantnood 07:34, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * I am clearly not talking about the presentation of facts. I am refering to your age-old habit of dropping messages to individuals who deviate from your agenda. Goodness knows how many more are being besieged by your emails and other means of communication outside the scrutinity of wikipedia. You want evidence? Its staring right back at you.--Huaiwei 07:42, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying your remarks. I have some questions in mind and I do hope you can give me some answers..: Am I dropping messages only to people disagree with my edits? What agenda am I having (if I were really having one)? Mind speaking it out if you strongly believe such an agenda exist? Is it plain speculative to say I'm contacting other users by email and other means of communication? Thanks in advance. — Instantnood 07:56, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * And may I ask...do I need to answer your questions? It appears that many of the questions you ask are fielded with a motive in mind. Like I said before, I am more than open in speaking my mind, but I do so in proper avenues, and I dont lap up to your veiled and pretentious attempts to dig up more information on your opponents. And as I said before too....have you yourself been a role model in being forthcoming and honest in your conduct and philosophies? You consider my comments speculative because I dont substaintiate them. Well, that is really non of my business. I drop these lines not merely to tell you something, but also to suggest to you something else. If you fail to grasp them, then I really could not care less. Leave my talkpage if you cannot engage in proper conversations.--Huaiwei 08:04, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I guess what you're trying to say is that you don't want to carry on this conversation. Thanks, anyways, for responding. Adieu. — Instantnood 08:21, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * Good riddance. Come back to me when you mature.--Huaiwei 08:27, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * If there's any sysop watching, please kindly stop by and comment if this is a personal attack. Thank you. (This is not the first time if I recall correctly, say.. .) — Instantnood 08:38, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, so I see you consider this a personal attack. Just curious, but do you consider excessively tracking someone else's edits as a personal attack as well? ;)--Huaiwei 08:56, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Huaiwei only knows how to communicate with personal attacks. Civility is not his/her modus operandi.  I suggest Huaiwei learn how to deal with others in a collegial manner.  Zoe 22:47, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Talk pages
If you guys want to have a conversation, please do so on your own Talk pages. Thank you. --Calton | Talk 07:27, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

Sun Yat-sen FAC
Just to remind you that you didn't state whether you support, object or stay neutral in the Sun Yat-sen FAC. In my opinion, according to the efforts you put into the article, your stand should be counted as a support vote... 10:44:12, 2005-09-05 (UTC)
 * Do be patient with me...I will vote in due course. Anyway why worry...it is almost an obvious shoo-in for FAC status! :D--Huaiwei 15:22, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Sin Ming Road Bus Terminal
Hello! This is about the recent interchange at Articles for deletion/Sin Ming Road Bus Terminal. Clearly public transport has a huge impact in the development of cities (see the impact of the trolley lines and their subsequent abandonment in favour of the car in development of the suburbs of Philedelphia). I guess my main complaint is that the article at Sin Ming Road Bus Terminal provides little context, and worse that that, the entry on Bishan New Town, the development/suburb that it serves, is shorter than the entry on the bus station itself. Pilatus 12:18, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Then add to the content instead of asking for things to be deleted just because they are not yet developed. Every FA starts off as a stub, so dont you think you are being a little too overboard in your deletionist progaganda?--Huaiwei 14:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * WP:CIVILITY. You are in a better position to do the job properly than I am, that is you claim to have academic credentials in the subject matter. Here's the chance to prove yourself, pass it up at your discretion.  Pilatus 14:59, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Besides, short, uninformative sub-stubs tend not to grow. Case in point: Bishan New Town and Geylang, two suburbs associated with bus stations that have come up for deletion have not improved for over nine months. As I say, I cannot improve on them as I lack familiarity with the subject. Pilatus 15:20, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yesterdays remarks of mine were way out of line. I offer apologies. Got any pointers in the literature on the demographics of Singapore, it is an intriguing subject? Pilatus 11:32, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Nah it is ok, and you do not have to apologise. I decided to ignore them, and thankfully that does help to prevent the rather tense situation from worsening. With regards to the subject matter, I think I personally tend to hold back because they are rather complicated topics which will need lots of cross-referencing often from literature in libraries, and I personaly do not have the time yet to do just that for many of them. Perhaps I should breach this personal mental block of mine and try to build them up bit by bit. All I ask is for everyone to be patient with us while we try to develop the content, and no, I dont think this effort has to be confined to locals only. Anyone can contribute! ;)--Huaiwei 16:08, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * It suddenly came to me that we shouldn't improve articles only when they are threatened to get swept off. I guess we all SGpedians need some sort of self-motivation to get going in SG-related article improvements. (Esp. the three potential FAs which are currently like sitting ducks). - Mailer Diablo 20:24, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah...but its hell alot of work, and seems like we dont have alot of contributors just yet unless the current ones do this full time. This is the reason why I held off plans to start creating too many articles whereby information is still not readily available just yet, and I have been visiting the library more often now. As for the three potential FAs...haha....looks like we somehow need a jolt of electricity some day. I am kinda tired of the way each individual tries to better the article till it now looks like a fractured piece of work!--Huaiwei 21:00, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we should have some coordinated writing, like CoTW Singapore? Perhaps that'll do us some good? - Mailer Diablo 19:03, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but judging from the way Singaporeans are contributing to wikipedia, I admit I harbour doubts over its workability. We already have the current events page constantly maintained by just two Singaporeans (and no Malaysians), with no one else coming forward to contribute should both of us fail to do so. I am not too sure if we can handle any more collaborations concurrently in the current situation....(or am I being too persimistic?)--Huaiwei 19:08, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Let's give it a shot! I've set up the page already. :) It's a trial run after all. I'll work on the templates later. - Mailer Diablo 21:03, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

WP:CIVIL. WP:NPA. Your repeated personal attacks on me will not be tolerated. I suggest you desist immediately. Zoe 22:44, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

RE: Maps of Singapore
I am actually more of a neophyte in maps; User:Vsion have more to offer. Though I used Illustrator for maps in school projects. Slivester 13:09, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Aiyah at this stage, any help is apprciated bah. :D I still use the wierdest programs to draw maps, including Powerpoint and even MS Paint! :D--Huaiwei 13:51, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, well anything will do I supposed, as long its a map that eventually be posted on the site. :) Slivester 22:51, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Muahaha....but that only happens when I know how to do it efficiently! :D Is illustrator the best option for this? Noticed you arent the first person to mention it for drawing maps. Maybe I should get my hands on a copy soon. ;)--Huaiwei 23:25, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Thats the closest software I got my hands upon for map, and its widely available in schools. In fact, thats the one of the only 3 licensed softwares I have access to in school. :x Slivester 08:17, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Chinatown
Ought not Chinatown, Singapore be a lot more extensive? I'll try to help out when I can. I thought you might be interested. Or maybe I'm overestimating the importance of Chinatown in Singapore's history. --Dpr 05:34, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Well it does require lots of work, as is also the case for tonnes of other Singapore-related articles. It is not that this article is not impt, but that most of us are concentrating our efforts elsewhere. Nonetheless, will look forward to your contributions and assistance as well!--Huaiwei 06:52, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

JE Bus Interchange Google Earth Maps
Hi Huaiwei,

That's a novel way to put your point across an VFD debate! =P Anyway, the VFD debate has just been closed, let me know if you need to leave it for a 'lag' period of time or not before I delete them.

- Cheers, Mailer Diablo 16:22, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm...feel free to delete them any time. I doubt anyone still wants to look at them now? :D Thanks for the hard work in helping to keep them viable, and yeah, lets try to work on them!--Huaiwei 06:47, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

 * No problem. All done btw! =) - Mailer Diablo 09:29, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

SIA
you are doing a good job Huaiwei:)

/Who
 * Hehe..thank you! :D--Huaiwei 06:45, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Re: Hong Kong as a country?
There's no dichotomy. But if you do really want a yes-no answer, then I'll have to say yes, as in the strict sense country and sovereign state are not synonym. (Please reply at my talk page. Thanks.) — Instantnood 10:43, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * As I've mentioned at Vsion's user talk page, it depends. Besides here and Vsion's talk page, my viewpoint has been illustrated in many talk pages and voting pages. Don't think you can create any sort of illusion or distortion to any other readers about my position. :-P — Instantnood 10:53, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Please conduct this conversation in your talk page. I dont like to shuttle between two or three pages the way you do.--Huaiwei 10:54, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

(Re: ) 國家 is not always a correct direct translation of the English word country, and sovereign state should better be translated as 主權國. Afterall please don't place an equivalence sign between 國家 and country, then argue Hong Kong is not a country by arguing Hong Kong is not a 國家. — Instantnood 11:42, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I already said. Discuss this in your talk page. Can you understand simple instructions in English? And seriously, do you think I could take your comment above seriously and declare you are politically nuetral?--Huaiwei 11:50, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Instructions? Who do you think you are? And in fact I didn't even notice that "instruction" as I've already requested you to respond at my talk page - including giving instructions. — Instantnood 12:02, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I am huaiwei. Who else? lol! Oh, and notice I did "comply" to your "instruction", but you didnt to mine at all? Whatever the case, this reads like script in some HK soap opera? Quite enough, I must say.--Huaiwei 12:06, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Categorisation
Look at most categorisation. If something is in a subcat then it is not also listed in the higher cat. That's our normal policy. Why do you think everything to do with Singapore should be categorised multiple times? -- Necrothesp 11:51, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I am more than aware of that policy. That said, it is not a hard and fast rule, especially in cases where it is not naturally apparant where a category should go under. Do we expect our readers to flip through multiple categories in the hope of finding it when the categorisation is not so clear cut? Is law enforcement always a subset of the judiciary system? Not everyone agrees with that, so it makes sense to have multiple appearances. Last but not least, do you need to mention Singapore in your little exercise here?--Huaiwei 11:55, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I think cat or sub-cat or whatever category is just not necessary when you migrate to Sgwiki to contribute, Alien2 21:38, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Welcome you to write, yes write first then shoot and I will add-to-yours if it has an audience at Sgwiki. Have fun here too! goto it now? < []> alien2 at Alien2 21:38, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Besides, the cat method rule out facts which should be considered, I mean not just facts alone, wholescale facts are deleted automatically, It call packaging out truths just like a bunch of peer group at wikipedia with arrogrant peer standing do!Alien2 21:45, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[]

 * Nobody said it was a subcat of the judicial system (it's not), but it is a subcat of the legal system (it's Category:Singaporean law not Category:Judicial system of Singapore). The judicial system refers to the courts, law enforcement to the police, both are subsets of the legal system. How is the categorisation not clear cut when they both have 'law' in their title and will come next to each other on the Singapore list anyway? However, I can't be bothered to get into a revert war over such a minor issue, so I'll let it go. I don't quite get what you're referring to in your last sentence ("do you need to mention Singapore in your little exercise here?") - what do you mean? -- Necrothesp 12:29, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Got catch a rat under cat: Alien []
 * If you may look at Category:Singaporean law, it is equivalent to a category on the Judicial system in Singapore. The only reason why this is not apparant just yet is because we have yet to write articles on our Supreme Courts, Subordinate courts, etc. Classifying law enforcement as part of the judicial system, although intrinsically related (which is why are they subcats of each other anyway), relegates one aspect beneath the other, when they are seen as equals as far as the system is concerned. As for the reference to Singapore, I wonder if comments such as "Why do you think everything to do with Singapore should be categorised multiple times" or "no reason why Singapore should always be an exception to everything" are appriopriate. Singapore-related articles are subject to the same conventions and policies in wikipedia as per any other article. In what way is this comment fair?--Huaiwei 12:37, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Once again, I'm not suggesting that law enforcement should be subordinated to the judicial system. Actually take the trouble to read what I say. If Category:Singaporean law is actually about the judicial system, then it should be renamed, since the judicial system is only one aspect of the law. However, in actual fact it is not only about this, since it also includes laws, taxation, punishments etc. Therefore what I said is accurate and your statement that it "is equivalent to a category on the Judicial system in Singapore" is not. You seem to be confusing the judicial system with the law. They are not the same things at all, although naturally related. My comment stems from the fact that I have noticed with articles on law enforcement in Singapore (and Hong Kong, as well) in particular that there is a tendency to rush to add as many categories as possible instead of trying to refine. Just an observation. -- Necrothesp 12:57, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Category:Singaporean law does contain just about any article related tot he judicial system in Singapore, including that of individual laws. In fact, this is also noticeable in many other categories in Category:Law by country. I am not advocating an error to be enforced just because it is pre-existing, but I do hope you may realise we are making do with this more because there is simply not enough articles yet for two seperate categories to be created not only for Singapore, but also for many other country-related cats. Even Category:United Kingdom law is not immune from this problem, and actually lists judiciary-related articles as its sub-cats. Yes, the two are not the same thing, so shall we go about clearing this up across wikipedia? I dont mind assisting.

 * As for your personal obsevation over the creation of those categories, you are not entirely wrong. I personally do take pride in creating a comprehensive classification system for all Sg-related articles since coming to wikipedia (of coz if others emulate my efforts, I dont have any control over, nor take responsiblity for that). However, I do wonder why this should then result in the above disagreement taking place.--Huaiwei 13:14, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Hang on, you don't seem to have what I'm saying straight. Law is the main cat. The judicial system is a subcat of law. Law enforcement is also a subcat of law. So there's nothing wrong with the UK categorisation (or the other countries) whatsoever. They are not subcats of laws plural (which is itself a subcat of law), but they are subcats of law singular, which covers anything to do with legislation, law enforcement, the judicial system and the penal system. As to categorisation in general, I'm just not in favour of over-categorisation as I think it makes the larger categories (like Singapore) too large, but that's obviously just a difference of opinion. -- Necrothesp 14:27, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I see. Perhaps the slight confusion came along because Category:Singaporean law was once known as Category:Laws of Singapore, which was meant for specific laws here rather then law-related topics in general. Whatever the case, I hope to work towards building up more articles about the Singapore judiciary, having that as a subcat of Category:Singaporean law, and perhaps at that juncture, it should not be an issue to have Law enforcement as a subcat.--Huaiwei 14:45, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, my take on it is that every country should have a Category:Fooian law. Basic subcats under that should be: Category:Laws of Foo (actual legislation and case law), Category:Law enforcement of Foo (police etc), Category:Judicial system of Foo (courts) and Category:Penal system of Foo (prisons and punishments): the four basic stages of the legal system. With additional subcats depending on issues specific to the country. None of these should, however, be subcats of another. That's what I'm working towards. -- Necrothesp 15:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * That is a fair and agreeable classification. My only slight disenchantment now is over the removal of Category:Law enforcement of Foo as a top-level category in country cats. The law enforcement agencies are in a way seen in the same light as the military when it comes to natural security, and the removal of one just seems to be in its disfavour. Already, we do have people not expecting to find an article on the police in the law enforcement category...because not everyone uses that phrase as much around the world. What do you think of this mindset? Too biased?--Huaiwei 15:10, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I do understand what you mean. We don't tend to use the term 'law enforcement' in the UK, in fact. But it is a good general category title, since it also covers agencies other than the police and the definition of 'police' can be different in different countries (in some countries it is used to refer to all law enforcement personnel; in others, like the USA, it emphatically does not include agencies like the FBI). The issue of whether or not to put law enforcement as a top level cat within country cats tends to be down to my dislike of overcategorisation, as I said before. But obviously others disagree on this. -- Necrothesp 15:51, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

ntu / nu renaming
Thanks for linking up those references, it really helped clear things up! =D -Hamstersanonymous 07:47, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah...no problem at all. ;)--Huaiwei 09:45, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

THanks
THanks for ur notification and warm welcome. BUt how do I show my own pic at my own user page? Thx. And what is the part abt Sg notice board???

gd4u 14:40, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Groyn88
Please take a look at Homosexuality in Singapore, Groyn88 has been inserting crystal ball predictions of the future of Homosexuality in Singapore despite my efforts on the talkpage a long time ago. He was using the talkpage as an alternate soapbox for his unsubstantiated claims, and when I noticed and deleted them, he immediately copied them over to the main article. --Miborovsky 22:53, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Groyn88 is not the problem! He’s migrating to other sites so don’t worry too much. In fact, the problem is to face it squarely, and dead on his vulnerability with so many places. His narcissistic habits and prowling instinct is moderate as this movement die out fast by scaring people than bring them to the fold. Do you wonder so many commit suicides? From the high rise buildings not just in Hong Kong but a pathetic lot drink too much and party too and die earlier! Fact is he is there to stay? Aids that is only a part of its results of promiscuity Alien2 06:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Regarding your reply in Singapore Changi Airport passenger traffic by airline
I'm not necessarily arguing that the information isn't useful, and I wasn't aware that it was difficult-to-acquire information.

If it's not burdened by copyright or any similar laws, though, why not post it on Wikisource? Wikipedia isn't the place to post raw source data, but Wikisource is. Just because something is useful information that you can't find elsewhere doesn't mean it belongs on Wikipedia specifically; Wikisource is there for raw source info and source texts, Wikitravel is there for travel info, and Yellowikis is for phone/contact directory info. Any of those would be more appropriate places for much of this information. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 04:36, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I would think it is a copyright issue if I were to copy the data directly according to what is presented in the original publications. I had to "repackage" the data, and sieve out only the relevant information, and combine it from multiple sources to produce the data. It cant fit into wikisource because it is no carbon copy of any single source. It is not "raw information" either. I did my own sums to come up with many of those figures by using the primary figures. This information is not mean to be a travel guide. Why would a traveller need to know the number of passengers on a flight sector compared to other sectors, so why should this be a part of wikitravel? This is not a list of telephone numbers or contacts. Does it fit into Yellowikis?

 * Thanks to this rather strange litle exercise, we now have one article being deleted while the other stays. I cant help but smile at the rediculousness of it all.--Huaiwei 08:53, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your speedy help on Lingnan culture. I was about to come back and fix it. Man, you're fast. While we're on the subject, that page could use some expansion, namely more information about Singaporean culture & architecture. --Dpr 06:39, 4 October 2005 (UTC) Hi User:Dpr goto Sgwiki to read up on Singaporean culture & architecture - we have more to offer than just POV or NPOV unorthodox essays by my brother from the same Up_faith_there! 165.21.154.109 14:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[thread_link]

People's Republic in China, Republic in China
Thanks for putting them to speedy renaming. In fact I've already dropped a message to user:Who, whose bot was responsible for renaming those categories, and made that mistake. :-) (since I do not check others' replies on their talk pages regularly, please let me know at my talk page if you've replied here. Thanks.) — Instantnood 14:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Macao/Macau
I flip-flop back and forth on how I spell it. I think I've even spelt it both ways in a single sentence before. Can you give me a reason to care about o vs u? SchmuckyTheCat 18:05, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Haha...I just find it really unprofessional to have half the content in wikipedia using O, while the other half uses U, and yes, sometimes within the same article. It is not a major bug bear, but by insisting on using O, we buck the international trend in English publications around the world who are increasingly using U.--Huaiwei 18:12, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Singaporean/Lingnan Architecture
Thanks for your message. I do have a good book on Singapore's architecture, which I will attempt to filter into some articles (citing source of course), when I have time. An amazing city, and amazing architecture. I think it seems that Lingnan architecture is highly influential in creating the shophouse, but when I do in fact contribute on these topics, I'll do more research. Good luck and kudos. Best, --Dpr 01:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Huaiwei/Archive G


text:
Oleg Serebrian

Oleg Serebrian (born 13 July 1969) is a Moldovan politician, writer, diplomat and political scientist, President of the Latin Union between 2010 and 2012.

Biography
He studied law and history at the Ion Creangă State Pedagogical University in Chișinău and international relations at the European Institute of High International Studies in Nice, France. Serebrian entered the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Moldova in 1992. In 1998 he was awarded his doctorate in political sciences. In 1998-1999 he served as spokesperson of Moldova's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Between 1999 and 2003, he was Deputy Rector of the Free University of Moldova.

Between May 2001 and February 2008 Serebrian was Chairman of the Social Liberal Party. On 10 February 2008, after merging of Social Liberal Party with Democratic Party of Moldova (DPM) he was elected First Deputy Chairman of DPM. Between March 2005 and July 2010 he was Member of the Parliament of Moldova (reelected for a second term in 2009).

Between July 2010 and July 2015 he was Ambassador of Moldova to France and UNESCO. From November 2015 to January 2022 he was the Moldovan Ambassador to Germany.

He is the author of several books on international affairs and geopolitics.

Since 19 January 2022, Serebrian is the Deputy Prime Minister for Reintegration of the Republic of Moldova.

Major works

 * Geopolitica spaţiului pontic (Geopolitics of the Black Sea Region, 1998)
 * Politosfera (Politosphere, 2001)
 * Dicţionar de geopolitică (Dictionary of Geopolitics, 2006)
 * Despre geopolitică (About Geopolitics, 2009)
 * Cântecul mării (Song of the Sea, 2011), novel
 * Rusia la răspântie (Russia at the crossroads, 2014)
 * Woldemar (2018), novel
 * Pe Contrasens (In the opposite direction, 2021), novel

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Oleg Serebrian


text:
Cathedral of Saint Joseph the Workman

The Cathedral of St. Joseph the Workman is the mother church of the Diocese of La Crosse. The cathedral, designed by architect Edward J. Schulte, was completed in 1962. Built of limestone, it has a tall clock tower which rises above the surrounding buildings in downtown La Crosse, Wisconsin.

In 2008, the cathedral undertook a six-week project to repair the steeple. In March 2021, the cathedral began another program to repair the steeple which began to drop stones in summer 2020. The renovations addressed several problem areas of the structure, as well as refurbish the interior of the building. The projects were complete in June, 2023, followed by a September 2023 celebration.

The following Bishops of the Diocese of La Crosse are buried in the Blessed Sacrament Chapel: Note:Bishop Michael Heiss is buried in Milwaukee and Auxiliary Bishop William Richard Griffin is buried in Chicago.
 * Kilian Caspar Flasch
 * James Schwebach
 * Alexander Joseph McGavick, founder of Aquinas High School-La Crosse, Wisconsin
 * John Patrick Treacy, the builder of the new cathedral
 * Frederick William Freking
 * John Joseph Paul

title: Cathedral of Saint Joseph the Workman


text:
Migrant Workers Convention

The International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families is a United Nations multilateral treaty governing the protection of migrant workers and families. Signed on 18 December 1990, it entered into force on 1 July 2003 after the threshold of 20 ratifying States was reached in March 2003. The Committee on Migrant Workers (CMW) monitors implementation of the convention, and is one of the seven UN-linked human rights treaty bodies. The convention applies as of September 2023 in 59 countries.

Context
In his 9 November 2002 report on strengthening the organization, United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan wrote: "It is time to take a more comprehensive look at the various dimensions of the migration issue, which now involves hundreds of millions of people, and affects countries of origin, transit and destination. We need to understand better the causes of international flows of people and their complex interrelationship with development."

Overview
The United Nations Convention constitutes a comprehensive international treaty regarding the protection of migrant workers' rights. It emphasizes the connection between migration and human rights, which is increasingly becoming a crucial policy topic worldwide. The Convention aims at protecting migrant workers and members of their families; its existence sets a moral standard, and serves as a guide and stimulus for the promotion of migrant rights in each country.

In the Preamble, the Convention recalls conventions by International Labour Organization on migrant workers: Migration for Employment Convention (Revised), 1949, Migrant Workers (Supplementary Provisions) Convention, 1975, and on forced labour; Forced Labour Convention and Abolition of Forced Labour Convention as well as international human rights treaties including Convention against Discrimination in Education.

The primary objective of the Convention is to foster respect for migrants' human rights. Migrants are not only workers, they are also human beings. The Convention does not create new rights for migrants but aims at guaranteeing equality of treatment, and the same working conditions, including in case of temporary work, for migrants and nationals. The Convention innovates because it relies on the fundamental notion that all migrants should have access to a minimum degree of protection. The Convention recognizes that regular migrants have the legitimacy to claim more rights than irregular immigrants, but it stresses that irregular migrants must see their fundamental human rights respected, like all human beings.

In the meantime, the Convention proposes that actions be taken to eradicate clandestine movements, notably through the fight against misleading information inciting people to migrate irregularly, and through sanctions against traffickers and employers of undocumented migrants.

Article 7 of this Convention protects the rights of migrant workers and their families regardless of "sex, race, colour, language, religion or conviction, political or other opinion, national, ethnic or social origin, nationality, age, economic position, property, marital status, birth, or other status". And Article 29 protects rights of child of migrant worker to name, to registration of birth and to a nationality.

This Convention is also recalled by the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities at the Preamble.

Parties and signatories
As of September 2023 countries that have ratified the Convention are primarily countries of origin of migrants (such as Mexico, Morocco, and the Philippines). For these countries, the Convention is an important vehicle to protect their citizens living abroad. In the Philippines, for example, ratification of the Convention took place in a context characterized by several cases of Filipino workers being mistreated abroad: such cases hurt the Filipino population and prompted the ratification of the Convention. However, these countries are also transit and destination countries, and the Convention delineates their responsibility to protect the rights of migrants in their territory, and they have done little to protect those at home.

No migrant-receiving state in Western Europe or North America has ratified the Convention. Other important receiving countries, such as Australia, Arab states of the Persian Gulf, India and South Africa have not ratified the Convention.

Intersessional panel discussion
In June/July 2022, at the Human Rights Council Fiftieth session, the Human Rights Council held an Intersessional panel discussion on the human rights of migrants in vulnerable situations that were previously stated under 35/17 and 47/12 resolutions. The High Commissioner pointed out concerns related to the criminalization of migration, gender-based violence, arbitrary detention, family separation, loss of lives, harmful and dehumanizing narratives, and pervasive discrimination owing to personal factors, including age, gender, or disability. The broader impact of COVID-19 was also highlighted. Statements were provided by panelists reiterating that all migrants, regardless of status, were entitled to all human rights. Concerns on situations of vulnerability that migrants encountered in transit and at borders and violence perpetrated against migrants, including by State and non-State actors were also referred. Calls were made for independent mechanisms to monitor human rights violations, increase attention to the human rights of migrants, the importance of international cooperation, and the need to translate these rights into adequate legal and regulatory provisions. Additional recommendations included the need for implementing comprehensive protection regimes to identify and address situations of vulnerability in the process of migration. Remarks were made on the need for the international community to understand the root causes of migration and the challenges associated with it, and the range of measures that are needed to respond adequately to those challenges. Annual panel discussions were suggested by the High Commissioner.

title: Migrant Workers Convention


text:
Talk:Abotani

Untitled
Did this guy definitely exist? The Donyi-Polo article makes it seem like a matter of belief rather than fact. And if he did exist, then an essential addition to the articles about Abo-Teni, Jeuhli Khorvho, Sarghai Uluianaar and Tiberius Lowang is WHEN. TheMadBaron 12:14, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree. But there is very little resource to verify whether this figure of oral traditions existed or not. If he did, then he was probably different from how he potrayed and the events probably went a bit differently(oral inheritance does get altered and exaggerated over time) Hido F (talk) 03:14, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Addition of stories
I suggest those who have collected his stories, should add them here Hido F (talk) 03:15, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Abotani


text:
Barbuda Independence Movement (political party)

The Barbuda Independence Movement was a political party in Antigua and Barbuda. The party was formed in 1988 by Arthur Nibbs. It participated in the 1989 general elections, but received only 71 votes (0.3% of the total) and failed to win a seat. It did not contest another election.


text: User talk:82.224.59.166

title: User talk:82.224.59.166


text:
Tubbataha Reef

The Tubbataha Natural Park, also known as the Tubbataha Reefs Natural Park (Bahurang Tubbataha), is a protected area of the Philippines located in the middle of the Sulu Sea. The marine and bird sanctuary consists of two huge atolls (named the North Atoll and South Atoll) and the smaller Jessie Beazley Reef covering a total area of 97030 ha. It is located 150 km southeast of Puerto Princesa, the capital of Palawan. The uninhabited islands and reefs are part of the island municipality of Cagayancillo, located roughly 130 km to the northeast of the reef.

In December 1993, the UNESCO declared the Tubbataha Reefs National Park as a World Heritage Site as a unique example of an atoll reef with a very high density of marine species; the North Islet serving as a nesting site for birds and marine turtles. The site is an excellent example of a pristine coral reef with a spectacular 100-m perpendicular wall, extensive lagoons and two coral islands. In 1999, Ramsar listed Tubbataha as one of the wetlands of international importance. In 2008, the reef was nominated at New7Wonders of Nature.

The national park and the rest of the Philippine archipelago is part of the Coral Triangle, recognized as a center of marine biodiversity containing 75% of the described coral species and 40% of the world's reef fish. The area is under a grave threat due to overfishing and destructive fishing practices. Research of scientists visiting the reefs since the 1980s revealed that the Tubbataha Reefs Natural Park contains no less than 600 fish species, 360 coral species, 11 shark species, 13 dolphin and whale species, and 100 bird species. The reefs also serve as a nesting ground for Hawksbill and Green sea turtles.

Geography
The natural park is located near the middle of Sulu Sea, 150 km southeast of Puerto Princesa, covering a total of 97030 ha. The smaller Jessie Beazley Reef is located about 20 km north of the two atolls.

Geology
Tubbataha Reef is situated on Cagayan Ridge, an extinct underwater volcano and an island arc during the Miocene. Being a true atoll structure, it is believed that the atolls of Tubbataha were formed as fringing reefs and volcanic islands. This follows the classical Charles Darwin's theory that atolls are formed around an existing volcanic island. When the volcanoes became extinct and the islands subsided over a long time, only the corals remained which then continuously grew towards the surface. The staircase-like slopes of the modern reef are now a product of the fluctuating sea levels as the crust under Cagayan Ridge cools and subsides.

Etymology
The word tubbataha is a combination of two Sama-Bajau words: tubba and taha, which together means "a long reef exposed at low tide". Historically, Sama-Bajau peoples, who have a nomadic lifestyle, visit the reef from time to time. Although people from the islands of Cagayancillo are frequent visitors of the reef. They used the native vessel banka to sail and fish on "Gusong", their local name for the Tubbataha.

Protection

Tubbataha's isolation, located in the middle of the Sulu Sea far from inhabitants of the nearest populated islands, had preserved its marine resources from over-exploitation over the years. The two islets in Tubbataha have no source of freshwater thus preventing habitation.

In the 1980s, fishermen reaching Tubbataha increased in numbers with the advent in motorized bangkas, instead of the traditional sailboats. Fish had declined in other fishing grounds because of overfishing and soon Tubbataha became a fishing destination because of its abundant marine life. Many fishermen used destructive fishing techniques like cyanide and dynamite fishing to maximize their catch.

Scuba divers and environmentalists campaigned to make the reefs a national marine park. With the endorsement of the Provincial Government of Palawan, on August 11, 1988, President Corazon Aquino signed Proclamation no. 306 establishing the two Tubbataha Reefs as a national marine park with an area of 332 km2. This was the first time that the Philippines had declared a marine area as a national park.

In the early years of law enforcement by the Presidential Task Force, the rangers were housed in a simple canvas tent. In 1996 a wooden structure was built but shifting sand soon rendered its foundations unstable. At present, the marine park rangers are housed in a styrofoam-reinforced concrete structure on the Southeast Islet on Tubbatha's North Atoll.

The National Marine Park was enlarged in 2006 to include the Jessie Beazley Reef. President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo signed Proclamation no. 1126 on August 23, which increased the boundaries of the park by 200% to 970.30 km2. The national park was also reclassified as a natural park. It is guarded by armed rangers 24 hours/7 days a week.

In 2013, during the 25th anniversary of the Tubbataha Reef's national park declaration, the World Wildlife Fund announced plans to construct a modernized ranger station on a different site to effectively monitor and deal with illegal poaching activities. The said project would cost PHP50 million.

Recognition
It was declared a World Heritage Site by the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) in December 1993 and falls under the protective management of the Department of National Defense (DND) of the Philippines. It is currently under technical supervision by the Palawan Council for Sustainable Development (PCSD) and the Department of Environment and Natural Resources (DENR).

In 1999, Ramsar listed Tubbataha as one of the Wetlands of International Importance because of the variety of its marine life species and valuable role as a habitat for various animals.

The Tubbataha Reef Natural Park was nominated by New7Wonders Foundation in the New 7 Wonders of Nature in 2007 but lost.

In November 2015, Tubbataha was declared by the ASEAN's Centre for Biodiversity as the 35th ASEAN Heritage Park.

On July 25, 2017, the Tubbataha Reef was designated as a Particularly Sensitive Sea Area (PSSA)—and an "area to be avoided"—by the International Maritime Organization.

Management
Although the reefs are geographically part of the island municipality of Cagayancillo, Palawan, located roughly 130 km to the northeast of the reef, the park is managed by the Tubbataha Management Office (TMO) in Puerto Princesa. The islands are uninhabited except for the rotating 10 – 12 park rangers at the Ranger's Station located at the southernmost tip of the North Atoll. The combined team from the Philippine Navy, Philippine Coast Guard, Municipality of Cagayancillo and the TMO. Stationed for two months at a time, their job is to protect the park from illegal activities including fishing and collection of other marine life.

Ecology
Over 1000 species of marine life inhabit the reef with many considered endangered. Animal species found include manta rays, lionfish, sea turtles, clownfish, and sharks. Tubbataha has become a popular site for seasoned sport divers because of its coral "walls" where the shallow coral reef abruptly ends giving way to great depths. These "walls" are also habitats for many colonies of fish. Giant trevally (jacks), hammerhead sharks, barracudas, manta rays, palm-sized Moorish idols, napoleon wrasse, parrotfish, and moray eels live in the sanctuary. There also have been reported sightings of whale sharks and tiger sharks. Tubbataha is even home to cetaceans and hawksbill sea turtles (Eretmochelys imbricata) which are critically endangered species. Being a UNESCO World Heritage site, all living organisms are protected.

Vivid corals cover more than two-thirds of the area and the waters around the reef are places of refuge for numerous marine lives. The seemingly diverse ecosystem of this sanctuary rivals the Great Barrier Reef – having 350 coral species and 500 fish species. In June 2009 an outbreak of the crown-of-thorns starfish was observed, possibly affecting the ecological functioning of this relatively pristine coral reef.

Tourism
Tubbataha is considered one of the best dive sites in the world according to CNN Travel. Trips to Tubbataha National Marine Park from Puerto Princesa operate during the diving season from mid-March to mid-June, the period where the waves are calmest, skies clear and water visibility of about 30 to 45 m. The park is about ten hours by boat from the city. All trips are vessel-based or "liveaboard" as there are no accommodation facilities. Visitors stay on the yacht/boat throughout their stay in the park. During the diving season, ships dedicated for diving are usually booked years in advance especially during Easter and the Asian holidays called "Golden Week".

As of March 2011, the park entrance fee for individuals is pegged at US$75.00 or PHP3,000.00. In September 2010, Palawan governor Abraham Kahlil Mitra announced that local residents of Palawan province can enter the Tubbataha Reef without paying the conservation fee. Divers are advised to book their trips towards the middle or end of April as calm seas from April to June have a short window.

Although the sand bars around Tubbataha are considered off limits to human beings, tourists are allowed to set foot at the Ranger Station where they can purchase souvenirs and tour the facility.

₱1000 bill- The park is featured on the reverse side of the 2010 series of the Philippine one thousand peso bill.

Rainbow Warrior
On October 31, 2005, the Greenpeace ship Rainbow Warrior ran aground on Tubbataha Reef accidentally damaging approximately 100 m2 of reef for which they paid a fine of about $7,000. Greenpeace blamed the accident on inaccurate charts provided by the Philippine government. The BBC quoted Greenpeace official Red Constantino as saying "The chart indicated we were a mile and a half" from the coral reef when the ship ran aground. Greenpeace paid a fine.

USS Guardian
On January 17, 2013, the US Navy minesweeper USS Guardian ran aground at Tubbataha Reef. The U.S. Government initially blamed the grounding on faulty maps. Between 2011 and January 2013, before the grounding of the USS Guardian, there were eleven incidents involving ships, including two Philippine ships. The U.S. Navy concluded that towing the ship off the reef would cause more damage and decided to dismantle the ship in place. On March 30, the last section of the ship was removed from the reef. No evidence of fuel leakage from the grounded vessel were found.

On April 8, 2013 the U.S. Navy turned over digital navigation charts and other relevant documents and data of the Guardian to the Philippine Maritime Casualty Investigating Team (MCIT) and responded to various technical and substantive queries. The MCIT conducted its own independent investigation and made recommendations on how to avoid such incidents in the future.

The U.S. Government apologized for the incident and relieved five officers from duty. The initial investigation clearly indicated that these officers did not adhere to standard US Navy navigation procedures.

The World Wide Fund for Nature–Philippines and the Tubbataha Management Office, measured the damage area at 2345.67 m2. The U.S. Federal Government was assessed a fine of 24,000 Philippine pesos (about US$600) per square meter. On January 20, 2015, the United States Government paid to the Philippine government a total of 87 million Philippine pesos, or US$1.97 million – 59 million Philippine pesos for the damage and another 29 million pesos to reimburse for services provided by the Philippine Coast Guard.

F/V Min Long Yu
On April 8, 2013, the F/V Min Long Yu, a Chinese fishing vessel, ran aground some 1.1 nmi nautical miles east of the Tubbataha Reef ranger station. The fishing vessel had 12 crew members and was suspected of illegal fishing. On board, what was found instead were 400 boxes of frozen pangolins of unknown origin.

title: Tubbataha Reef


text:
Bike (song)

"Bike" is a song by the English rock band Pink Floyd, which is the final track featured on their 1967 debut album, The Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

Background
In the song, Syd Barrett's lyrical subject shows a girl his bike (which he borrowed); a cloak; a homeless, aging mouse that he calls Gerald; and a clan of gingerbread men, because she "fits in with [his] world". With each repetition of the chorus, a sudden percussive noise is heard similar to the firing of two gunshots. The heavy reverb from these bangs immediately cuts out when the following verse begins. Towards the end of the song, he offers to take her into a "room of musical tunes". The final verse is followed by an instrumental section that is a piece of musique concrète: a noisy collage of oscillators, clocks, gongs, bells, a violin, and other sounds edited with tape techniques, apparently the "other room" spoken of in the song and giving the impression of the turning gears of a bicycle. The ending of the song fades out with a tape loop of geese squawking. The song was written for Barrett's then girlfriend, Jenny Spires. She is also mentioned as "Jennifer Gentle" in the song "Lucifer Sam", which is also on The Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

Other album appearances
The song also appears on two Pink Floyd compilation albums: Relics (1971) and Echoes: The Best of Pink Floyd (2001); it serves as the closing track on both albums.

Cover versions

 * P-Model covered the song for their 1984 album Another Game. The lyrics were adapted by bandleader Susumu Hirasawa, who focused on Japanese lyrics that sounded similar to the English version rather than a direct translation, turning it into a parodic version. It features a toy piano sound played by a Yamaha DX7.
 * The Hotrats covered the song on their 2009 album Turn Ons.
 * Phish has performed this song at (to date, Nov. 2023) 42 of their shows, often with drummer Jon Fishman playing a baby blue Electrolux vacuum cleaner.
 * The song was played by Nick Mason's Saucerful of Secrets in 2018. "The interesting thing is how complex Syd's writing was," Mason observed. "I think we'd all agree that one of the most challenging songs is 'Bike', which has a very curious feel."

Personnel

 * Syd Barrett – electric guitars, double-tracked lead vocals, laughing, tape effects
 * Richard Wright – piano, harmonium, tack piano, celesta, violin, double-tracked backing vocals, laughing, tape effects
 * Roger Waters – bass guitar, laughing, tape effects
 * Nick Mason – drums, timpani, chimes, percussion, laughing, tape effects

title: Bike (song)


text:
User talk:Cyberprog

Notification of automated file description generation
Your upload of File:Big boy.jpg or contribution to its description is noted, and thanks (even if belatedly) for your contribution. In order to help make better use of the media, an attempt has been made by an automated process to identify and add certain information to the media's description page.

This notification is placed on your talk page because a bot has identified you either as the uploader of the file, or as a contributor to its metadata. It would be appreciated if you could carefully review the information the bot added. To opt out of these notifications, please follow the instructions here. Thanks! Message delivered by Theo's Little Bot (opt-out) 13:22, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:03, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cyberprog


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Calexico

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. Sjakkalle (Check!)  08:40, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Calexico
vanity and non-notable Gator1 12:20, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete per nomination. - Gator1 12:20, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Meets notability requirements: five albums on a large indie label (Quarterstick, distributed by Touch and Go), several world tours, and a feature article in Paste Magazine. -- keep sleep ing   say what  13:34, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Very notable band, their EP with Iron & Wine has received a lot of press. Rhobite 13:47, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Obvious keep. Meets standards easily. --badlydrawnjeff 13:56, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep per above comments... Touch and Go confers notability. I did remove the similar artist section though as that is more appropriate for Amazon or Allmusic.--Isotope23 14:39, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and expand as meeting WP:music. They have release five alums on a large independent label. They have an Allmusic.com page showing that they have made the Billboard independent charts and their 2005 album In the Reins reached #125 on the album charts. Their Allmusic.com article is here see Definitely notable within their genre. Capitalistroadster 18:22, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as it meets WP:MUSIC. Isotope23, you did the right thing so kudos to you. --Jacquelyn Marie 03:42, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep notable per definition of notable. Jessamyn 04:03, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I have expanded the article. No change of vote from Keep. Capitalistroadster 04:37, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep, I have at least two co-workers and several friends online who like this band. Andrew Levine 23:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wolf Hole, Arizona

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep. Physchim62 16:39, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Wolf Hole, Arizona
non-notable Gator1 12:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Delete per nomination. - Gator1 12:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Policy is to list genuine placenames, so keep. Pilatus 12:31, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep see e.g.. It had a post office from 1918 to 1927 - not very notable admittedly but shows there is room for expansion of article.     Dl yo ns 493   Ta lk  12:33, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Send to cleanup, and delete if not extended after 1 or 2 months. - Andre Engels 13:41, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but send to cleanup per Andre Engels.--Isotope23 17:27, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, real place. Kappa 18:06, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * keep this too please we should not erase articles about real places Yuckfoo 23:50, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep and clean up. --Jacquelyn Marie 03:41, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep according to policy.--Nicodemus75 04:06, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. -- DS1953 04:22, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep real community. I would strongly suggest never nominating a verifiable locality for deletion.  This policy is well-settled. Xoloz 15:34, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Antigua Freedom Party

The Antigua Freedom Party was a political party in Antigua and Barbuda led by George "Rick" James.

The party contested the 1999 general elections with a single candidate, George James, running in the St. Johns Rural East constituency. James got only 57 votes and failed to win the seat. After the elections AFP claimed that the Antigua Labour Party government had committed electoral fraud, as they had let non-nationals to vote.

title: Antigua Freedom Party


text:
Zagora

Zagora may refer to:

Africa

 * Zagora, Morocco
 * Zagora Province, Morocco
 * Mount Zagora, a mountain in south-eastern Morocco

Asia

 * Zagora (Paphlagonia), a town of ancient Paphlagonia

Europe

 * Zagora, Greece, a village in Thessaly, Greece
 * Dalmatian Zagora, a region in Croatia
 * Zagóra (disambiguation), several places in Poland
 * Zagore (region), an area in Bulgaria
 * Stara Zagora, a city in Bulgaria
 * Nova Zagora, a city in Bulgaria
 * Zagora, Kanal ob Soči, a village in the Municipality of Kanal ob Soči, western Slovenia
 * Zagora, Krapina-Zagorje County, a village near Krapina, Croatia
 * Zagora, Trebinje, a village near Trebinje, Bosnia and Herzegovina

Other uses

 * Zagora (horse) (born 2007), thoroughbred racehorse
 * Zagora (Loose Ends album), an album by R&B band Loose Ends

title: Zagora


text:
Category:Populous (series)

This category groups articles on topics relating to the Populous series of video games.

title: Category:Populous (series)


text:
Talk:Irish set dancing

Irish
Set dance is a irish Form of Dancing. The most teachers are irisch. The most Sets are irisch. I think it is ok that this artikel is irisch. english is not my native Language. BerndFallert (Germany) The second last paragraph of article has a word missing; the sentence " Set dances from a particular******* have similar elements" Is the missing word "region" or "county" or "area" ??

I placed the item "region" (english isn´t my native language, either) ;-)). I´ve put a pic from our Ceili 2005 into the article; have a look at the german article, Regards, Cuchullain10 13:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Bolded
Should first top and other positions be bold, italic or plain? RJFJR 21:29, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Looked it up, just regular but still capitalized seems to be the consensus on the internet. Sasquatch t|c 16:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Title
Hello, I'm fond of this dances that I've been dancing for twenty years now. I know a little about step dancing too. It would be better to name this page "set dancing" as we call the dance. In the world of irish dancing, "Set dances" refers to a kind of step dancing. It isn't the same thing at all. Kadwalan

 * I see someone changed the name of the article again since I wrote this without any comment here. Again, I'm really surprised by this title. Irish, well ok but I think "(irish) set dance" refers to some dances in solo step dancing. A set dance means only a set of dancing steps and moves. Set dancing, a kind of irish square dance, is a kind of set dance and sometime is referred to with that name . More often though, set dance refers to an irish solo step dance danced with a standard choreography, standard pieces of music, and performed to a standard speed. An Coimisiún Le Rincí Gaelacha which promote Irish stepdance has seven traditional solo set dances and contemporary sets dances as stated here by the Rising tide irish dance academy. The term "Set dancing" is used more often for the dance described in this article. If I look at the pictures on google searching for "Irish set dance" I find mostly "irish set dancing" in the legend of the pictures from english speaking countries websites wich show actual irish square dancing or quadrille. "Set dance" refers also often to solo step dancing there. The fans newspaper's name is not *Set Dance News" but Set Dancing News. The external links in the article refers to "set dancing" or "sets".--Kadwalan (talk) 00:50, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Irish set dancing


text:
Chianche

Chianche is a town and comune in province of Avellino, in the Campania region of Italy.

The town rises on the border between the provinces of Avellino and Benevento, on top of a green hill. It is surrounded by chestnut-tree woods, while the fertile countryside produces olive oil and the  DOC wine "Greco di Tufo".

The town's history dates back from c. 300, when it was named Planca. It was ruled by many different feudal families, included the Caracciolo and Carafa.

title: Chianche


text:
User talk:Arundhati bakshi

Category:Novels by Shobha De has been nominated for discussion
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Nomination of Plus Two for deletion
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WikiProject Hinduism
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Hello, Arundhati bakshi. We would like to inform you about the recent changes to the WikiProject. We would like to introduce a newsletter to Wikiproject Hinduism. A newsletter is always help to inform recent changes in the project to project members and help for effective coordination. Now we have launched a new newsletter for the Wikiproject. As a member, you are cordially invited to subscribe to the newsletter. Also do not forget to contribute to the newsletter. Thank you!

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title: User talk:Arundhati bakshi


text:
2005 Tommy Murphy Cup

The 2005 Tommy Murphy Cup was the 2nd staging of the Tommy Murphy Cup, the Gaelic Athletic Association's secondary inter-county Gaelic football tournament. The draw for the preliminary round fixtures took place on 9 July 2005. The championship began on 16 July 2005 and ended on 4 September 2005.

Clare were the defending champions but they did not enter the championship.

On 4 September 2005, Tipperary won the championship following a 3-10 to 0-15 defeat of Wexford in the final. This was their first Tommy Murphy Cup title.

Wexford's Mattie Forde was the championship's top scorer with 2-14.

Withdrawals
In July Carlow manager Liam Hayes was forced to pull his side out of the championship due to the unavailability of the majority of his first-choice squad. Hayes made the decision as 12 of his panel were injured and four dual players decided to line out for the Carlow hurlers.

In August the Antrim County Board took the decision to withdraw from the championship due to a full club hurling fixture list, injuries and players on holidays.

Preliminary round
Matches

Quarter-finals
Matches

Semi-finals
Matches

Miscellaneous

 * Tipperary win their first championship in 10 years, last winning the 1995 All-Ireland Senior B Football Championship

title: 2005 Tommy Murphy Cup


text:
Henry Willis & Sons

Henry Willis & Sons is a British firm of pipe organ builders founded in 1845. Although most of their installations have been in the UK, examples can be found in other countries.

Five generations of the Willis family served as principals of the firm, until 1997, when Henry Willis 4 appointed as Managing Director, David Wyld; who subsequently became the majority shareholder.

Founded in London, at 2 & 1/2 Foundling Terrace, Gray's Inn Road, the firm later moved to a purpose-built works, designed by Henry Willis III, at Petersfield; and after acquisition by David Wyld, to its present base and head office in Liverpool.

History
The founder of the company, the eponymous Henry Willis, was nicknamed "Father Willis" because of his contribution to the art and science of organ building and to distinguish him from his younger relatives working in the firm.

He was a friend of Samuel Sebastian Wesley whom he met at Cheltenham, and who was instrumental in gaining for Willis the contract for his first work on a cathedral organ, at Gloucester, in 1847.

The Willis firm is regarded as the leading organ builder of the Victorian era, itself a time when both civic and religious commitment led to the construction of a large number of impressive buildings and other public works. During the Industrial Revolution many towns equipped themselves with imposing town halls, preferably with a Willis instrument of the symphonic organ style, and a substantial (and similarly equipped) church. Industrialists competed to endow the most lavish halls and instruments. The result was a convergence of both a very fine and technically proficient organ builder, and a substantial number of commissions for really exceptional instruments. This heritage continues with recent new instruments in Florence (Italy) and Auckland (New Zealand).

As well as large organs, from around 1860 the firm made compact and lower-cost instruments suitable for smaller spaces such as the chancels of village churches. These were called Scudamore organs after their proponent, John Baron, who was rector of Upton Scudamore, Wiltshire.

In March 1919, Henry Willis & Sons merged with another prominent firm of organ builders, Lewis & Co, and traded under the name of Henry Willis & Sons and Lewis & Company Ltd. until 1923 when the reference to Lewis was dropped. The firm moved into Lewis's works at Brixton and remained there until it was destroyed by bombing during the London Blitz in 1941. The firm acquired A. Hunter & Son of Clapham in 1937.

Notable Willis organs
The "Father" Willis's organ won a 'Council' gold medal in the Great Exhibition of 1851 at the Crystal Palace in Hyde Park, London. With 70 speaking stops this was the largest of the organs exhibited. The organ was later installed in Winchester Cathedral by the family firm (largely due to the initiative of Samuel Sebastian Wesley, the then Cathedral organist) after being reduced to 49 speaking stops, which was felt at the time to be an appropriate size for the Cathedral. When installed at Winchester in 1854, it was the first cathedral organ in the world to have thumb pistons and a concave and radiating pedalboard, both the inventions of "Father" Willis (in collaboration with Wesley in the case of the pedalboard) and now standard features of organs throughout English-speaking countries.

Famous "Father" Willis organs subsequently installed in cathedrals include those at St Paul's Cathedral in London, Lincoln Cathedral, Salisbury Cathedral, Truro Cathedral and Glasgow Metropolitan Cathedral.

The organ in the Chapel of King's College London, designed to complete the George Gilbert Scott interior, is of "Father" Willis origin and dates back to 1866.

The Grand Organ built by Henry Willis & Sons in 1871 for the Royal Albert Hall had four manuals (keyboards) and 111 stops and was, at that time, the largest in the world.

The organ at Union Chapel, Islington, was designed and built specially for the size and acoustics of the new Chapel building in 1877 by “Father” Willis, it was fully restored from 2013-2015 and it is notable for its fully working original hydraulic blowing system.

The Grand Organ built by Henry Willis & Sons between 1923 and 1926 at the Cathedral Church of Christ in Liverpool is the largest pipe organ in the UK, with two five-manual consoles, 10,268 pipes and a trompette militaire.

Windsor Castle had a Willis until it was destroyed by a fire in November 1992, as have Blenheim Palace and the Royal Academy of Music.

In Australia, a 4,600 pipes organ was installed at the Brisbane City Hall in Brisbane. This was built in 1892, and originally installed in the Brisbane Exhibition Building, then in 1927 moved to its current location.

Although four generations of Henry Willises are mostly remembered for organs on the grand scale, they also built smaller instruments. Seven examples exist in Australia, including the last one imported, the 1881 organ (Great: 5 stops; Swell: 4 stops; Pedal: 1 stop; 3 couplers) in All Saints Church, Bodalla, New South Wales, commemorating the 'father of Australian dairying', Thomas Sutcliffe Mort.

Norfolk Island has a small Willis organ comprising one manual of four and a half octaves, seven stops and 350 pipes. The organ, donated by Charlotte Yonge of England, arrived on Norfolk in 1876 and was installed in St Barnabas' church in 1880. In 1985, Henry Willis IV, great-grandson of the founder, travelled to the island to carry out restoration work on the instrument.

Henry Willis III built and worked on many organs across Britain, the most notable examples of his work (in addition to Liverpool Cathedral) being in Westminster Cathedral and Sheffield City Hall, both built in 1932. These organs both contain stops invented by the builder: the Sylvestrina at 8 foot pitch on the Choir divisions. In 1929, he rebuilt Father Willis' notable concert instrument at Alexandra Palace. The resulting instrument was said to eclipse any other Willis concert hall organ, and to be the finest concert organ in Europe.

title: Henry Willis & Sons


text:
National Reform Movement (Antigua and Barbuda)

The National Reform Movement is a political party in Antigua and Barbuda. In the 1999 elections NRM had a single candidate, Knolly Hill, who ran in the St. Peter constituency. However, he received only 33 votes, and failed to win a seat.


text:
Talk:Dinaric Alps

Alps??
Are you nuts?? The Alps are between France, Italy, Switzerland and Austria!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.245.189.166 (talk) 00:52, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

Comment
This article exceeds its area. Sar_mountain-Pindos Alps are included in Dinaric Alps, which is not correct. That way we could include the Alps themselves into Dinaric Alps. Kopaonik mountain is questionable as the part of this mountain chain also. Kubura 12:29, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think you read that properly - the article does not say that Šar and Pindus are part of the Dinaric Alps, it merely states that the latter stretch from the Julian Alps to those two. I'll rephrase those sentences to avoid the ambiguity. --Joy [shallot]

Apparently an anonymous user had wrongly added the entire southwestern part of the Balkans to the definition - which is wrong, and evident from the text which clearly states where the mountain direction changes to north-south - this region marks the beginning of a different part of the cordillera system or what's-it-called. I don't know if there's a group name for these mountains. --Joy [shallot]   22:12, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Possibly related image found on Commons
- Leonard G. 00:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

This article was so exciting to read, the description of the geography left me feeling that I had actually experienced it first hand. One of the better written informational pieces on this website.

French Wikipedia
The extensive article in French Wikipedia, Alpes dinariques, needs to be translated and edited into this article.--Wetman (talk) 14:05, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Dinaric Alps
There is a small section of the Dinaric Alps in Italy (around 50 km). This should be cited for completeness. --Silvio1973 (talk) 06:52, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Hihgest peak is Triglav
If Julian Alps are part of Dinarides, then Triglav (2,863.65 metres (9,395 ft) in north west Slovenia is higher than Maja Jezercë in Prokletije.
 * The name Dinaric Alps is very unfortunate because it is not the Alps. Better name is Dinaric Mountains. Triglav lies in the Alps so it does not belong to the Dinaric Mountains. The highest peak will be Korab because the Šar Mountains and Korab Mountains should probably also be counted among the mountain chain Dinaric Mountains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.9.155.173 (talk) 20:15, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dinaric Alps


text:
Type A1 submarine

The Type A1 submarine (巡潜甲型潜水艦), also called I-9-class submarine (伊九型潜水艦) were a trio of aircraft-carrying cruiser submarines built for the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) during the 1930s. All three participated in the Pacific War and were lost.

Design and description
The submarines of the A1 type were versions of the preceding J3 class with superior range, improved aircraft installation. Unlike the earlier boats, they were equipped with extensive communication facilities to allow them to serve as squadron flagships. They displaced 2919 LT surfaced and 4129 LT submerged. The submarines were 113.7 m long, had a beam of 9.5 m and a draft of 5.3 m. They had a diving depth of 100 m.

For surface running, the boats were powered by two 6200 bhp diesel engines, each driving one propeller shaft. When submerged each propeller was driven by a 1200 hp electric motor. They could reach 19 kn on the surface and 8.25 kn underwater. On the surface, the A1s had a range of 16000 nmi at 16 kn; submerged, they had a range of 90 nmi at 3 kn.

The boats were armed with six internal bow 53.3 cm torpedo tubes and carried a total of 18 torpedoes. They were also armed with a single 40-caliber 140 mm deck gun and two twin 25 mm Type 96 anti-aircraft guns.

Unlike the J3 class, the aircraft hangar was integrated into the conning tower and faces forward; the positions of the deck gun and the catapult were exchanged so the aircraft could use the forward motion of the ship to supplement the speed imparted by the catapult. The hangar could be accessed from inside the pressure hull and the floatplane was stowed with its wings folded.

Boats
Two more boats were ordered under the 1942 Naval Program, but were later cancelled.
 * JAPANESE SUBMARINE I-9 was sunk by destroyer USS Frazier in the Aleutians on 11 June 1943.
 * JAPANESE SUBMARINE I-10 was sunk by destroyer USS David W. Taylor and destroyer escort USS Riddle east of Saipan on 4 July 1944.
 * JAPANESE SUBMARINE I-11 disappeared south of Funafuti after 11 January 1944. The I-11 probably struck a mine laid by USS Terror.

title: Type A1 submarine


text:
School of Military Intelligence and Security

The School of Military Intelligence and Security is the New Zealand Intelligence Corps (NZIC) school. It is currently located at Hokowhitu Campus, previously part of Massey University, Palmerston North. It is responsible for training NZIC personnel and other members of the New Zealand Defence Force in aspects of intelligence and security. The school offers courses in debriefing, tactical questioning, and human intelligence.

In 2012, there were six NZIC personnel based at SMIS.


text:
Talk:Somatic marker hypothesis

Expert opinion requested
This page has been edited (March 2006) by a graduate student who studies emotion and decision-making. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.140.203.142 (talk • contribs) 00:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

That would appear to be more expertise than most wikipedia articles have - why is the call for expert assistance still up? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.209.153.161 (talk • contribs) 12:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

 * The expert assistance is up, because some people in wikipedia are interested in real experts' opinions on real subjects and this definitely is a real subject. I am not an expert on the subject, but the claims of Rolls seem very unsubstantiated to me, more like: "I don't buy it and circular, causal feedback processes are something I don't like anyway." So if someone from that school of thought could come up with hard evidence and experiments, that would be appreciated. From complex systems theory I can tell you that reinforcement alone simply doesn't do the trick. PS: I inserted a link to a scientific paper, written by the guys who are cited in the article already, it should be a good fit. Hirsch.im.wald 10:03, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Rolls is my tutor (I'm an undergraduate Experimental Psychology student). If you want to read the other side of the argument, you could read his book: Emotion Explained (Oxford University Press, 2005). It's emphatically argued (I'm using a diplomatic choice of words here) and gives a very unfair account of alternative explanations and criticisms, but it is quite clear. His particular approach is based heavily on learning theory, which itself seems to be an evolution of behaviourist theory (i.e. one with links to neurophysiology). It all depends on what definition of 'emotion' you are working from, which in turn depends on how deeply you want to investigate decision-making. Much academic animosity seems to have grown from the confusion of one researcher's definition of emotion with another's and thus the apparent contradictions in the two working models. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.67.20.162 (talk • contribs) 23:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

 * As for the comment that Rolls seems to dislike 'circular, causal feedback processes': I assure you that he does not. It is simply that he does not believe there is enough evidence for the existence or importance of such feedback in this particular case (which may or may not be a defensible standpoint; I am not defending him). I may update these comments when I have finished this essay. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.67.20.162 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

As the one who altered the page originally, I felt it worthwhile to add the alternative viewpoint from the likes of Ed Rolls. The somatic marker hypothesis is an interesting theory, but is considered vacuous by many in the field. The problem is that a large proportion of supporting evidence is sourced from experiments using the Iowa Gambling Task and associated skin conductance findings.

Firstly, the Iowa Gambling Task has been shown to have serious issues in relation to what it is actually measuring, it involves many functions of human cognition. A recent study from Fellows & Farah has clearly shown that altering the contingency of the task allows individuals with OMPFC lesions to perform the task successfully. The original task provides a bias at the outset towards high reward decks that these individuals tend to prefer for the remainder of the task (which are ultimately bad choices). Changing this initial bias allows lesion patients to perform as well as controls. This may suggest the issue is a deficit in reversal learning rather than in using somatic-markers (i.e. the patients cannot unlearn a previously rewarded response rather than myopia for the future).

Secondly, the physiological responses found by skin conductance experiments alongside the Gambling task, suggest an anticipatory physiological response before selecting poor choices, asort of warning signal, however, there are other interpretations of this data (e.g. response to feedback, indicator of risk, post-decision emotional state).

A good review of the current status of somatic-marker studies and the hypothesis itself is provided by Dunn, Dagleish, & Lawrence (2006). The theory requires more evidence, at this moment the data is fairly tenuous and therefore I gave an alternative viewpoint.

Barney Dunn's paper is available here (don't want to link it in the main entry page as I don't know how this sits with copyright issues, remove if necessary) - http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~steve/somatic.pdf —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.133.172.72 (talk • contribs) 17:21, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Who better?
, I think you'd be perfect for this job.  E Eng  19:40, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but which job? I cannot find any other recent talk on this talk page. Is there an immediate issue? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:34, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Looking at the page history, I get the impression that the issue is that there may be problems with WP:SYNTH, with topics covered based on sources that do not actually mention somatic markers. Is that it? If so, I can certainly look at that. I imagine it would be a matter of either deleting some content, or adding some sources and/or clarification. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:45, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The topic certainly has lots of refs which do speak of somatic markers. But some parts, such as section "Evolutionary evidence", may be SYNH. Also while Damasio and followers did exploit the Iowa gambling task, the section Somatic marker hypothesis appears to be too verbose and stray way off somatic markers. (In fact, it is ridiculously larger than the article Iowa gambling task itself) Staszek Lem (talk) 23:49, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I think I meant to put this in the section below re "Clearer Language" (or something). The article's too dense, smells of OR/SYNTH, etc. It's nothing I could tackle with anything like confidence.  E Eng  23:07, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Obviously it was written by well-meaning persons with certain expertise in the field. Unfortunately these were IPs and we cannot ping the authors with questions for clarification. Ia appears that vast majority of text is referenced from primary sources. I do not exclude the possibility that some statements are based from the overview sections thereof (which would turn them into secondary sources). Therefore handling the article will require LOTS of reading. Staszek Lem (talk) 23:40, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the replies. When I get around to it, I'll try to make some fixes. I'll most likely concentrate just on sections that are pointed out to me here in talk, as Staszek Lem just did. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:54, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Also the section "Application to risky sexual behavior", written in a smooth essay style, has one intro ref, one ref describing a study and two more subsequent refs about which it is unclear whether they comment on the study described or just juxtaposed (which would be WP:SYNTH. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:37, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Also I don't see clear description how Iowa Gambling Task is connected to SMH. The text says IGT was to "adequately assess the obvious deficits in emotional processing, decision-making, and social skills of OMPFC lesioned individuals". Also "is frequently used in experiments exploring the somatic marker hypothesis." -- How? . For example there is statement: " it is helpful in testing the somatic marker hypothesis since it studies how anticipatory signals affect decision-making." -- how is that? Next, "with the somatic marker hypothesis that posits that people with "dysfunctional decision-making circuitry as reflected by poor Iowa gambling task performance and emotional distress has little influence on their decision-making capacity" -- how it that related to the hypothesis that experience creates some cumulative imprints in brain? Staszek Lem (talk) 00:49, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, what the heck is physiological affective state - how the term can be deduced by clicking links of physiological affective state ? Staszek Lem (talk) 00:49, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * And so on. May be I am stupid, but I can pick on every second statement in the article. At the first glance the whole text looks impressive,.... for a person who wants to be impressed. But IMO hardly instrumental in understanding the place of this hypothesis in the field. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:49, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Somatic(-)marker(s) hypothesis?
If I can do so without stirring up this hornets' nest again, may I ask that someone clarify why the title of the article ("Somatic markers hypothesis") doesn't match the name used in the body of the article itself ("Somatic-marker hypothesis")? Should one be brought into line with the other? EEng (talk) 01:02, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes. I've never heard it called the somatic markers hypothesis in the field. I would just have a redirect for the pluralised misnomer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.232.63 (talk) 01:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if some kind person could carry out that modification, for which I lack the mental acuity. Thanks! EEng (talk) 02:59, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I took the liberty to move the article and to remove the dash from "somatic-marker" occurences inside the article. --Kraymer (talk) 19:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Need for clearer language
EEng--I don't claim to have the expertise to know the underlying subject matter. But the language used was nearly incomprehensible to me, despite having a degree in cognitive sciences, and despite having read some of the sources that are cited. I came to this website to understand the sources a little more, and did not appreciate a general encyclopedia article being written in the same style as the scientific papers. I think the article needs more work, and I would prefer someone with more expertise revising it if you think my changes are substantive. I was trying to make minor changes without affecting the sense because I do not trust my understanding of the underlying research. Feel free to qualify the active prose to weaken it. But I point out that simply leaving it in the passive voice and strewn with unnecessary jargon will not help anyone assess the strength of this hypothesis or determine that it is unproven; it is unclear if the hypothesis is unproven or who is proposing it if we keep it in the passive voice with constructions such as "Somatic markers are proposed . . ." LostPal (talk) 22:46, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I didn't see this until today. I'm gonna have to limit my involvement to joining in encouraging someone brave taking on the task of making something comprehensible out of this over-jargoned mess. EEng (talk) 21:48, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

As the graduate student who edited the page originally an aeon ago, I'd love to spend some time getting the article in a more readily consumable format - but you know, the IGT is so last decade and I've definitely moved on. The article could also be updated with Barney Dunn's 2010 Psych Sci article (didn't notice it on a quick scan). That study perhaps provides the best current evidence for an SMH-like process (and no IGT in sight). There are some 20th anniversary review papers already appearing in Frontiers in Decision Neuroscience (mainly IGT focused), think Bechara's is already available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.135.127.206 (talk) 23:32, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Weasel words in criticism
> Some researchers believe that the use of somatic markers (i.e., afferent feedback) would be a very inefficient method of influencing behavior.

Who? Citation?

50.113.15.173 (talk) 09:45, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Somatic marker hypothesis


text: User talk:70.116.151.26

title: User talk:70.116.151.26