text:
User talk:Kattcoom

Image Tagging Image:Steve Albini.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Steve Albini.jpg. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, ie in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use .)  See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thanks so much. --Secretlondon 02:26, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Conrad keely.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Conrad keely.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that your image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If your image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why your image was deleted. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Shyam ( T / C ) 17:34, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Conrad Keely.JPG)
Thanks for uploading Image:Conrad Keely.JPG. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that your image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If your image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why your image was deleted. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Shyam ( T / C ) 17:34, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:ConradKeely trail of Dead.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:ConradKeely trail of Dead.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that your image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If your image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why your image was deleted. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Shyam ( T / C ) 17:34, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Conrad reading.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Conrad reading.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that your image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If your image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why your image was deleted. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Shyam ( T / C ) 17:34, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Conrad Trail Of Dead.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Conrad Trail Of Dead.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that your image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If your image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why your image was deleted. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Shyam ( T / C ) 17:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Conrad keely.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Conrad keely.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use GFDL-self to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. - SCEhard T 05:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Conrad Keely.JPG
Thanks for uploading Image:Conrad Keely.JPG. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use GFDL-self to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. - SCEhard T 05:25, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:Conrad reading.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Conrad reading.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use GFDL-self to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. - SCEhard T 05:26, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Image Tagging Image:ConradKeely trail of Dead.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:ConradKeely trail of Dead.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this media yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the media on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the media yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the media also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then you can use GFDL-self to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media qualifies as fair use, please read fair use, and then use a tag such as or one of the other tags listed at Image copyright tags. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other media, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. - SCEhard T 05:26, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Jason Reece.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Jason Reece.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this:.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thank you. Shyam ( T / C ) 18:24, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Kattcoom


text: User talk:68.94.23.73

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:68.94.23.73


text:
KNIX-FM

KNIX-FM (102.5 MHz) is a commercial radio station in Phoenix, Arizona, owned and operated by iHeartMedia, Inc. The station airs a country music radio format.

The studios and offices are located on East Van Buren Street in Phoenix near Sky Harbor Airport. The transmitter is in South Mountain Park, off Road B, amid other towers for Phoenix-area FM and TV stations.

Early years
The station originally signed on the air on December 25, 1961. Because there was no associated AM station, the call sign was simply KNIX. It has kept the call letters KNIX or KNIX-FM throughout its history. KNIX previously transmitted with 3,100 watts, a fraction of its current output, only heard in Phoenix and its adjacent suburbs.

KNIX aired a beautiful music format. The license was held by Aztec Radio, Inc., with owners John and Donna Karshner also serving as on-air staff and programmers. Their son, John P. Karshner II, became one of the youngest DJs in America at age 16.

Buck Owens Ownership
In May 1968, country singer Buck Owens bought KNIX. The purchase documents used his formal name, Alvis Edgar Owens, Jr. In addition to KNIX, Owens acquired KYND AM 1580 in Tempe from a different owner. The year before, Owens had purchased an AM and FM station in Bakersfield, California, KUZZ-AM-FM, which had been a profitable move.

Under Owens' ownership, the AM station in Phoenix became country music KTUF 1580, while 102.5 KNIX changed to progressive rock in August 1968. In early March 1969, KNIX-FM switched to country and the power was dramatically boosted to 100,000 watts. KTUF and KNIX-FM began simulcasting the country format, allowing listeners with FM radios to hear it in stereo, while the AM signal could be received on all other radios.

Station bumper stickers proclaimed "K-TUF/KNIX, We Stamped Out 3-Letter Radio." The bumper sticker referred to KOY AM 550, the leading radio station in Phoenix at the time, and the only one with a three-letter call sign. In 1976, the AM call letters switched to KNIX, while the FM station added the -FM suffix, creating KNIX-AM-FM. The AM station began programming classic country music, becoming the flagship station for a network called "Real Country." Meanwhile, KNIX-FM concentrated on contemporary and recent country hits. AM 1580 KNIX ended its association with the Real Country Network in 1985 and the AM-FM simulcast was restored.

KNIX-FM not only led the Phoenix radio market, but was considered one of the premier country radio stations in the United States. Under the leadership of Buck Owens' son, General Manager Michael Owens, and Programming/Operations Manager Larry Daniels, KNIX-FM was consistently number one in Phoenix. It topped the market in all but one ratings period between 1980 and 1990.

Clear Channel Acquisition
In 1998 Clear Channel Communications acquired the FM station from Owens, while the AM station was sold to The Walt Disney Company. KNIX-FM was sold for $84 million. The Disney Company used the AM station for its Radio Disney children's radio format, while KNIX-FM kept its successful country format.

On September 16, 2014, Clear Channel renamed itself iHeartMedia, Inc., to bring its corporate name in line with its iHeartRadio internet platform.

Awards
KNIX-FM has won many prestigious awards in the country music and radio industry. They include honors from the Country Music Association, the Academy of Country Music, Billboard magazine, and the Marconi Award for excellence in broadcasting. The CMA honored KNIX-FM as its "Major Market Station of the Year" in 2019, its sixth time receiving the award.

HD Radio
KNIX-FM broadcasts in the HD Radio format. The main signal is a simulcast of KNIX's country programming. On April 25, 2006, Clear Channel announced that KNIX's HD2 subchannel would carry a format focusing on music from new and up-and-coming Country artists. Several years later, the HD2 subchannel began carrying the audio of co-owned talk radio station KFYI 550 AM. The third channel carries iHeartMedia's Total Traffic Network (TTN), a data only service broadcasting real-time traffic streaming to GPS devices with HD Radio receivers, providing accident, traffic flow, and road construction information. Devices capable of receiving traffic data are available from manufactures such as Garmin and Cydle.

Former staff

 * Charlie Ochs (mornings)
 * W. Steven Martin (mornings)
 * J.D. Freeman (afternoons)
 * "Layback" Lenny Roberts (afternoons)
 * John Buchannon (evenings, midday, music director)
 * Brian McNeal (evenings)
 * Buddy Alan (music director, midday, son of Buck Owens)
 * George King
 * Steve Harmon
 * Jim West
 * Steve Wood
 * Bill Kramer
 * Brian Kelly
 * John Michaels
 * RJ Curtis
 * Susan Geary
 * Bobby Lewis
 * Steve Goddard
 * Tim & Willy (mornings)
 * Dick Leighton (traffic)
 * Bill Denny (sports)
 * Larry Clark (news)
 * Mary Ganier (news)
 * Stephan Kaufman (news)
 * Marti McNeil (news)
 * Gwen Foster
 * Scott Fisher
 * Russ Knight
 * Larry Daniels (midday)
 * Red Skyler
 * Bobby Butler
 * Mike Scott (afternoon drive & Music Director)
 * Camille Wood (traffic & voice work)
 * Robin Lee (overnights)
 * Gary Gardner (weekends)
 * Carolyn Coffey (mornings)
 * Garry D (Creative Imaging/Voice)
 * Marty McFly (Hunter) (Mornings)
 * Hawk Harrison (Mornings)

title: KNIX-FM


text: User talk:69.192.228.60

title: User talk:69.192.228.60


text:
Steve Rucker

Stephen Rucker (born 2 March 1954) is an American musician and drummer who served as a drummer with many artists. His biggest and well known act was the Bee Gees. With the Bee Gees band, he appeared on The Tonight Show, Late Night with David Letterman, Oprah Winfrey, The Rosie O'Donnell Show, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction and a Royal Variety Performance. Rucker appears on the Bee Gees' One Night Only recording and DVD. He is currently the Drumset Studies director of the University of Miami's Frost School of Music.

Early life
Originally from Charlotte, North Carolina, Rucker attended Berklee College of Music in Boston, and holds an Undergraduate Degree in Studio Music and Jazz and a master's degree in Jazz Performance from the University of Miami Frost School of Music.

From September 1974 until May 1975, Rucker toured with the Charlotte-based band Sugarcreek. During this period he became the musical arranger for the seven-piece horn band, and wrote and recorded their first single, "Runnin' Out of Time".

Florida
Rucker moved to Miami, Florida in 1976. Soon after, he was voted "Best Jazz Performer" and "Most Versatile Artist" in South Florida polls. In the early 1980s, Rucker was a member of the Ross-Levine band, a jazz fusion group. In addition to numerous appearances with them, he recorded "That Summer Something" and "Humidity".

Ocean Sound Band
While a member of Randy Bernsen's Ocean Sound Band in the late 1980s and early 1990s, he recorded tracks on "Paradise Citizens" and "Calling Me Back Home", and performed in many concerts internationally, including a billing with Miles Davis. In 1992, he recorded "Blues Hat Dances 'Round Midnight" with Randy Bernsen and Onorino Tiburzi in Italy.

In 1990, he recorded "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me" with Gloria Estefan. For many years, he performed nationwide with Ben Vereen, and appeared with Vereen with the Atlanta Symphony and the Dallas Symphony.

Active Ingredient
Rucker founded and produced the jazz ensemble Active Ingredient, a group of musicians from the University of Miami. The band debuted on Bainbridge Records in 1988 with "Building Houses," followed by "Extra Strength" in 1990.

Bee Gees
In 1997, Rucker appeared on a Bee Gees concert at the MGM Grand Las Vegas which was shown on pay-per-view television, HBO, and was released as a live album selling over 5 million copies. This led to a world tour of "One Night Only" concerts. The tour included playing to 56,000 people at London's Wembley Stadium on 5 September 1998 and concluded in the newly built Olympic Stadium in Sydney, Australia in March 1999.

Rucker also performed or recorded with Michael Jackson, Paquito D'Rivera, Barry Gibb, Jaco Pastorius, Cliff Richard, Joe Sample, Johnny Cash, Ben Vereen, Bo Diddley, Freda Payne, the Woody Herman Big Band, the Tommy Dorsey Big Band (with Warren Covington), Sam Moore and Bob James.

University of Miami
Since 1979, Rucker has been the Director of Drumset Studies at the University of Miami. He directs the Funk/Fusion Ensemble, which has won over twenty DownBeat Student Awards. In previous years has created ensembles performing the music of Tower of Power and Weather Report. RUCKER also directs the RUCK Ensemble, an original hip hop/funk group.

Late career
In 2008, Rucker created an avant garde duo with guitarist Tom Lippincott.

In 2010, Rucker recorded an album with composer Ron Miller, entitled Peacock Park the Music of Ron Miller.

Rucker completed an album in 2013 entitled Conversions with singer/pianist Hal Roland, in a live jazz quartet configuration.

In 2015, in collaboration with former student Jonathan Joseph, Rucker wrote and published Exercises in African-American Funk, which contains a set of exercises for developing a fusion of African and American funk drumming elements.

title: Steve Rucker


text:
Sibylla Budd

Sibylla Budd (born 19 September 1976) is an Australian actress perhaps best known for her roles in the television series The Secret Life of Us and Winners & Losers.

Early life
Budd grew up in Canberra, attended Canberra Girls' Grammar School and graduated from the Victorian College of the Arts with a Bachelor of Dramatic Art in 2000.

Career
In 2000 Budd appeared in the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) soap opera Something in the Air playing Sharon. In 2001 she was the leading female in The Bank as Michelle Roberts, and played Sam Cooper in the TV mini-series The Farm. That year she also began playing her break-out role of Gabrielle Kovich in The Secret Life of Us.

Budd left The Secret Life of Us in late 2003 a year before the series was cancelled. In 2005 she joined the cast of medical drama series All Saints playing Dyanna Richardson whose role was Nursing Unit Manager. In 2007 Budd appeared in Channel Nine's naval drama, Sea Patrol as marine biologist Ursula Morrell and in the feature film directorial debut of Gallipoli actor Mark Lee in The Bet, starring alongside Matthew Newton, Aden Young and Australian acting veteran Roy Billing.

Budd also had a guest role in an episode of the Australian comedy series, Kath & Kim as character Sharon Strezlecki's childhood friend.

In 2008 Budd appeared in the $40million advertising campaign to sell Australia, directed by Baz Luhrmann for Tourism Australia entitled "Come Walkabout" with Matthew Le Nevez.

In 2013 Budd appeared on Seven Network's Winners & Losers in Season 3 Episode 3 as the Head of Emergency. She also had a guest-starring role in Peter Helliar's series for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation series, It's a Date.

After the 2003 season of Secret Life, Budd joined her co-star Deborah Mailman on a journey to Tanzania with World Vision. The documentary The Secret Life of Tanzania was screened on Australian television in January 2004.

In August 2006 Budd was appointed member of the Advertising Standards Bureau, an advertising industry self-regulation body concerned with standards of advertising material in print, television and radio media.

title: Sibylla Budd


text:
User:Private Butcher/User talk archive 2

MediaSentry
Hi! I saw that you had tagged the article MediaSentry for speedy deletion. I removed your db-tagging because your reasons don't fall under the scope of WP:CSD. The criteria is very specific, and unless the article clearly falls under them, you should ship them to WP:AFD instead. I fixed it up so now it is a good enough stub I think. Anyway, good luck with patrolling! Cheers, gkhan 22:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi again, sorry to bother you..but Lemon sented murder doesn't fall under WP:CSD either. I don't wish to be a pain about this, but these things should go to WP:AFD (it doesn't meet WP:MUSIC notability criteria, so it will surely be deleted anyhow, but it has to go through the proper channels). Articles with bad spelling and formatting you should fix up insted of speedying. I'm going to do just that now, so don't worry, but please try to follow WP:CSD. gkhan 22:25, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Well look at that, it got deleted before I time to fix it. Sorry to bother you again. gkhan 22:28, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * You know, I really don't want to sound like an ass, 'cause thats really not my intention. I have huge respect for anyone going on New pages patrol. And by the way, the second example was speediable, as it doesn't assert notability. I apologise for that one :P Anyway, good on ya! Cheers gkhan 23:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

this is fun to watch actually
I'm like... watching your story unfold... I wonder how long before it get's deleted. -- NatsukiGirl \talk 22:32, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

The Butchering Bastards
"The Butchering Bastards" is not a suitable encyclopedia article because there is no assertion of notability. There are hundreds of thousands of unproduced screenplays in this world. Even the ones that are produced are often non-notable. However, please note that this is not a judgement on the screenplay, which I haven't read. It may be very fine work and I wish the writer the best of luck. Cheers, -Willmcw 23:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * No, you don't deserve to be blocked for promoting a project. Heck, half the editors on Wikipedia have somehow promoted something that they are involvd in. Best wishes for you and thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. -Willmcw 23:14, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Not to discourage you, but I know many people who struggle hard to get their screenplays optioned. They have connections, have written many screenplays, have attended classes and workshops, etc. It can be very discouraging. The luckier ones have had their scripts optioned for a few thousand bucks. Compared to the numbers of short stories and novels that are published, very few screenplays are ever produced. On the flip side, I read your biography and it sounds like you have had some intersting experiences that would be worth writing about, perhaps in another form. In any case, be well. Cheers, -Willmcw 23:30, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find the link to your screenplay in your biography here. Can you give it to me again? Thanks, -Willmcw 20:52, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Spinnaker pole
Hey, chill out. The target (Spinnaker pole) is there now; I just happened to create them out of order (plus I had a typo issue in the page name to fix). Noel (talk) 15:28, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

speedies
Please check the edit histories of pages you mark for speedying: If they are at any point not speedy candidates they should instead be reverted to that version. Thanks. --fvw *  00:22, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Your work is much appreciated, but only as long as you follow policy; anything else is merely disruptive and doesn't help anyone. (That goes for observing the no personal attacks policy too.) --fvw *  00:34, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

I didn't personal attack you. I told you to leave me alone, and my work isn't appreciated, you can try to feed me that bullshit but I eat bacon. I'm just trying to do a good job, so leave me to it. Private Butcher 00:37, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * You're not allowed to make personal attacks against anyone, not just me. Wikipedia is a community effort, if you're not willing to interact with others you might want to consider going somewhere else. --fvw *  00:40, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

I know wikipedia is a community effort, I've been working hard, and I've worked with others, and I told you I understand. I don't personal attack, I don't do anything wrong. So leave me alone. Private Butcher 00:45, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Dumbass is a personal attack. --fvw *  00:47, 25 September 2005 (UTC) Fine then block me, I broke a rule, I personally attacked. I deserve it, so go ahead. I forgot I did that, and now I feel like an asshole. So block me for doing something that idiotic. Private Butcher 00:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It's ok, we all make mistakes. Just something to keep in mind. --fvw *  00:52, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

And here's a little flower for your kindness in apologising to the anon. Happy editing! --fvw *  00:55, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

It's not okay at all. I've made "mistakes" twice in the past 3 days. First I tried to advertise a project I'm working on, then I personally attacked an innocent person. I'm a failure at this. Private Butcher 00:55, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * And both times the matter was resolved, that's the nice thing about wiki's: The odd mistake doesn't matter, things can always be fixed up later. --fvw *  00:58, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Okay thanks. I just want to be a really good editor. I'd like to create big great articles, and I would like to be able to be the big hero that stop vandals and deletes tons of nonsense. But I'm not any of those things. I'm kind of an okay editor, that tries but always comes up short. I'll try to be a better and nicer editor, so then you won't have to talk to me again about anything I did wrong. I have mental conditions that make me feel extremely bad whenever I do something wrong, so you may think I'm just being weird over all this, and overreacting but its really because of that. Private Butcher 01:02, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't sweat it, you haven't been around that long, even the most prolific of editors and vandal-fighters were accident-prone in the beginning. --fvw *  01:05, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Fascism to Democracy?
If you don't mind me asking, how did you make that transition? Sam Spade 01:18, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I made that transition because I've been thinking about my whole life, when I was young I always thought I was just being brainwashed by Democracy's ideals, so I began to follow fascist ideals. But then I've been looking at the political parties of fascism in America. And they all prove to me that what my ideology was, was just completely insane, I saw for what those people were, evil bastards. Then I began to read about what democracy, and I found that it truly different than what I thought. So then I now believe in democracy. If you need me to clarify more than I will. Private Butcher 01:22, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Interesting... I study politics alot, and it was fun to think we had an openly fascist wiki. Oh well... Have you seen http://www.politicalcompass.org/ ? My results (and various other opinions) are @ User:Sam Spade/Theoretical Biases if your interested. Cheers, Sam Spade 01:42, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Well I took the test you told me, and what I found intrigued me. I put the results at my userpage, under a subpage "politics". Thanks for showing that site to me, it was very interesting. And I've seen your political beliefs, and those interest me too. Private Butcher 18:45, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Looks like we agree alot, which is fun. Even our alignments are quite close (I sometimes get lawful good, its my clear runner-up). Let me know if you feel like discussing such things sometime, the only thing I like discussing more than other peoples opinions are my own ;) Cheers, Sam Spade 19:06, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Well you like to discuss your opinions so I have a question now. Tell me about your anti-prison beliefs, I just want to know what you think on it. Private Butcher 19:21, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

 * This is one of my most central issues, actually. I think imprisonment is a human rights abuse, as well as being cruel and unusual. Man is a nomandic animal, and not ment for confinement. Also, american and 2nd and 3rd world prisons are rife with assault and degradation of the spirit.

 * I propose 2 (possibly 3) alternatives, each based on the morality of the criminal. Firstly, for those who are conclusively proven to be guilty of wicked and unforgivable crimes, I prescribe death, taking place in the manner most efficient for society. If that be organ harvesting, medical or military experimentation, or gladitorial combat, the market can decide.

 * Secondly, for the vast majority of those criminals who do something wrong, but not evil (like stealing a car, or having a fist fight at the pub), I prescribe indentured servitude, w 1/3rd of the profit going to the state to pay for their maintenance, 1/3rd to the victim, and 1/3rd going into a savings for them when they are finished, or to be given to their loved ones in the case of their death. Military service might also be an option in some cases.

 * The third category is more dubious, and involves illness or or mental defect. I'm not sure if that category is waranted, and if it is, it should be used rarely. The right response might be intensive reprogramming, or perhaps deportation.

 * Finially, I would point out that "moral" crimes, like killing someone who raped your daughter, or a woman killing an abusive husband, should not be punished at all. Sam Spade 19:48, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Re: more
I thought our original conversation was getting to long so I started another thing. '''Finially, I would point out that "moral" crimes, like killing someone who raped your daughter, or a woman killing an abusive husband, should not be punished at all. Sam Spade 19:48, 26 September 2005 (UTC)'''

 * Your other things are pretty good ideas, but a why should a government who would judge have to chose what crime is "moral" or not. No crime is moral, every crime is wrong. Even revenge, revenge or killing in anger is a horrible thing to do. I live in Washington D.C., stuff like that happens all the time, they all should be treated the same. They all deserve death for murder. If someone raped my daughter, I wouldn't "hunt them down" like some action hero and kill them. I'd hunt them down then do everything in my power to send them to hell in life, then hell after they die (as in making them suffer in prison, then they can go to hell when they die). That's just the one large flaw I saw, because anyone could commit a crime and claim it was "moral" because no one could testify against them to prove otherwise. Private Butcher 22:11, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

My primary concerns in deciding how to treat someone are altruistic, trying to treat them as well as possible, and self interest, trying to do whats best for me. If someone has an excuse, thats very different to me from someone who doesn't. Maybe their should still be some consequence (like indentured servitude), but frankly I don't understand why killing a bad person, or protecting oneself, should be be punished. Thats the altruism. Also, I don't like there being laws against stuff I, or other nice people might do, or at least not some horrible penalty. Thats the Self interest, for me at least ;). Sam Spade 22:20, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm all about self-interest, I'm kind of like, you do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't mess with me and who I care about, and what I do. But I think that they deserve punishment for breaking what I just said, even if they did something to you first, and you were doing it in revenge, the person that did the revenge, still deserves some form of punishment, it doesn't have to be death, but it can be servitude like you said. But I just think they still do deserve something. Private Butcher 22:37, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Thats a very Libertarian viewpoint. Curiously, neither of us scored as libertarian on that test, not socially, and not economically either. What I find interesting is how well I get along w libertarians, and how comfortable I would be if they were in power. If I was king, my society wouldn't be very libertarian at all. I'd have loads of benefits, and extremel;y high taxes on things I disapproved of. But since I'm not king, I tend to feel more safe w libertarian leadership. At least I know they won't interfere w my attempts to be charitable ;) Sam Spade 15:42, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

 * After you said that the view point was very libertarian, I decided to retake the test. I took almost 30 minutes thinking about all the questions, and my results came out very differently. It's at the political subpage in my userpage if you want to see. Private Butcher 19:11, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Its interesting that your views changed so much, I've taken that test maybe 10 times, and the results havn't changed much at all. You should check out political spectrum. I consider myself a Radical centrist Populist, but most people just call me unclassifiable, or right wing ;) Sam Spade 20:45, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Okay I have something to tell you that's completely in confidence. I need you to do make a page, and don't let anyone have the ability to find it, and I have to tell you something. I really don't want anyone to find out, I just think I can trust you with this information. Private Butcher 00:50, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Then don't say it here! Email me if its confidential. Theres an "email this user button" on my user and talk pages. Or you can try this: Special:Emailuser/Sam_Spade. Sam Spade 00:59, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks for reminding me, I forgot about that. I'll send you an email saying it then. Private Butcher 01:02, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

 * There I sent it, and I'm pretty sure I know what will happen next. So I guess this is probably goodbye. Private Butcher 01:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Nope, your secret didn't upset me, see your email. Sam Spade 01:16, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Cindy Sheehan
Howdy! I'm not a participant on the Cindy Sheehan article, but I recently saw an edit of yours had an edit summary of "rv TRUE pov". You were reverting vandalism, and everything was legit, but I'd like to make a friendly suggestion that you take a quick glance at WP:NPOV. A 'true POV' is not what we want here, neutral pov is the target. Again, your edit was fine, this is not a complaint, just a heads up on some tips to avoid problems in the future, the 'TRUE pov' phrase will definitely set off warning sirens in lots of people. Thanks! (PS, your 'click here to leave me a message' link seems to be busted, it still points to fascist chicken.) - C HAIRBOY (☎) 23:02, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I know about the whole Cindy Sheehan thing, and I said "True" pov, as a joke, I knew someone would take it the wrong way. But really it was just for joking purposes, so I'm sorry if you didn't like it. Also I fixed my message box thing, I forgot to do that, when my username switched. Private Butcher 23:21, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah, roger that. It's not that I 'didn't like' it, it just wasn't obvious as a joke, especially considering the heated nature of the Cindy Sheehan edit history.  Just a friendly wiki-editor trying to help out, hope you didn't take offense!  Regards, - C HAIRBOY  (☎) 23:25, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

My RfA
Butcher-- Thanks for your support on my RfA. It was surprising, since I don't believe we've had any interaction. I thank you nonetheless. Cheers. By the way, what part of Virginia did you work in? See ya. -- Lord Vold e  mort  <sup style="color:#3D9140;">(Dark Mark)  21:30, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your support of my recent nomination on RfA. Best regards, RobertG ♬ talk 10:57, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Name Change
I have been taking it easy, since I need to take more time off an look for a job, but I saw an unfamiliar name on my Watchlist, and clicked on it; Aparently you got a user name change.

Sounds cool. What does it mean? A private in the army of the Lord? A Butcher of problems?

I hope all is going well since your job change.

Thx.--GordonWatts 00:42, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Helpseeker's Essay
While I don't think that there is anything in User:Helpseeker's school essay on the Patriot Act we can use, we also need to remember to not bite the newbies. Jkelly 01:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Reverse Claustrophobia
Reverse claustrophia is a serious problem that should be taken seriously. I am personally offended that the page was removed. It's prejudice people like you who are preventing reverse claustrophobics from coming public with their problem. comment by: user:128.221.4.201

My RFA
Thank you very much for your vote on my RFA, it is now one of the most supported RFA ever, and it couldnt have happened without your vote. I look forward to serving wikipedia. Again, thanks. →Jo urna list  >>talk<<  16:31, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Your vote on OwenX's nomination.
For what it's worth, OwenX has made 1700 edits in the last three months- even though his first edit was in December 2004, he started being really active in June and July. I'm not asking you necessarily to change your vote, but note that OwenX is fairly active. Ral 315   WS  00:27, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

 * That's fine. As long as you have a valid reason for opposing- the reason that you put in gave me the belief that you were opposing because the edits were too low over the nine months since he registered.   Ral  315   WS  08:53, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Derek & the Dominos
Thank You so much for fixing that picture, i've been wanting to fix it for the longest time but I never could format it correctly. Thank you so much and you really deserve this flower for your time and effort in fixing the picture. Patman2648

Zigland
Hey i was just wondering if you knew anything about zigland? It is a relatively unknown country but i was hoping someone as knowledgeable as yourself would have information on it. I hear that santa has a holiday home there....awesome! Well let me know. I chose you because your sooooo manly breaking all those edits and all.


text:
Talk:Almquist shell

The ash included in *BSD
The ash included in *BSD as /bin/sh does include job control. There is also command line editing though it is not enabled by default.

There was another shell named "ash" (or "adsh") which was the "adventure shell", like a text adventure game (Zork or whatever). AnonMoos 18:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

OpenBSD does not use Almquist shell code. Not for nearly 20 years.

The given reference pointed to code in the OpenBSD CVS that hasn't been touched in that long. I've removed the mention. Placing this note here in case somebody unknowingly tries to put it back in the future.

for further verification: compare http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/%7echeckout%7e/src/bin/sh/ to http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/%7echeckout%7e/src/bin/ksh/ (the currently-maintained shell, derived from PDKSH, Public Domain Korn Shell) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.192.13.216 (talk) 02:04, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Comment on Merge Suggestion
The article is pretty clear that it is not describing a Linux-specific program, so merging it would damage this source of information Tedickey 14:24, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Red Hat nash?
Red Hat/Fedora Linux uses a program called nash to interpret scripts during start-up. However, despite the name it does not appear to be related to ash. I've checked the versions of nash back to summer 2001 without finding any traces of ash — but perhaps they used ash originally, and at some point decided to write their own program instead. Rune Kock (talk) 20:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

primary-sources tag
Reading the topic, it appears that the editor has the notion that anyone using the shell, whether they're modifying it or not is automatically a primary source. Some clarification is needed to retain the tag. TEDickey (talk) 18:04, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Typically people who are (re)distributing a product are not counted as independent third party sources for the purposes of wikipedia notability. Stuartyeates (talk) 20:26, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

 * Oh. Do you have a pointer to one of the guidelines supporting your opinion? TEDickey (talk) 20:57, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

License?
There is no mention how ash is licensed... --Arny (talk) 19:42, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Debian's copy (dash) lists a BSD 3-clause license. That's likely the same license in the others, barring some possible modification to use the 2-clause license. TEDickey (talk) 21:33, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Debian Almquist shell
The page on dash has major notability problems: the only reference that can be counted as third-party is the one to ubuntu.com. Also, all the significant material on the other page is in fact already present on this one: dash is a minor modification to ash and it's used in Ubuntu and Debian as the boot shell. Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 16:39, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

 * I performed the merge. Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 10:26, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Bash as default shell in Ubuntu
wants a better source for the fact that Bash is the default shell on Ubuntu. What kind of source would be appropriate? I referenced the  package's default setup file, which very clearly states

DSHELL=/bin/bash
 * 1) The DSHELL variable specifies the default login shell on your
 * 2) system.

It's a primary source, and it requires a bit of interpretation, but it's the only non-self-published (Ubuntu wiki, Debian wiki, blog, StackExchange, etc.) source that I could find so far. Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 07:49, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

 * That "bit of interpretation" is a problem. A better source for instance would point to one of the Debian policy guidelines, or corresponding mailing-list discussion of the distinctive uses of dash/bash in Debian.  (Ubuntu is perhaps harder to since their value-added part is hard to find) TEDickey (talk) 08:14, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

 * AFAICT, debian-policy only prescribes the behavior of . It mentions bash a few times but not explicitly as the default login shell. Q VVERTYVS  (hm?) 08:36, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Well, as it stands, the topic relies upon an inference from a single line of code, providing more information than could be in the given source (looks like WP:SYNTH) TEDickey (talk) 23:01, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Respectfully, I would accept this. Yes, it's a primary source and maybe there could be better sources, but so what?  It's not offered in support of notability nor is there any reason to believe it might be an unreliable source.  To the contrary, it's authoritative.  I suppose an argument could be made that reading the source and reporting what it says is WP:OR based on the need for the special expertise to interpret the source.  But I'm not persuaded.  There are millions of people with the necessary programming skill to read this; it's just not that special.  Msnicki (talk) 23:18, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

 * See my comment: the Wikipedia topic provides more information than the source given. It implies a policy; my suggestion of how to find a usable source was glossed as too difficult. TEDickey (talk) 23:58, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Again, respectively, I disagree. I do not read the claim as suggesting a policy.  I read it only as reporting what is.  And as I understand it, the statement is correct, that's what it is right now, and the claim can be verified in the source given.  Were all the rest of Wikipedia so well supported.  Msnicki (talk) 00:58, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

 * What the article says is "Bash is the default login shell for interactive use" which coincides exactly with what the comment in  says. The necessary inference is that   is Bash and that   is the command to add users.
 * The alternative is to cite the Debian and Ubuntu operating systems as such, like we do with e.g. movies for plot summaries. Both are free software (free as in freedom and beer) and thus easier to obtain than many a book, while Ubuntu does not require greater technical skills to install than it takes to read the scientific papers we happily cite in other articles. The procedure for verification boils down to firing up a terminal and checking that the shell is Bash. I don't really like this solution, since it's much more work than checking a single file. Q VVERTYVS (hm?) 10:38, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Sure: it is an inference, as noted here and here, "adduser" is a particular script used to invoke "useradd". As a reminder, nothing in your comments responds to WP:SYNTH. TEDickey (talk) 00:29, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

 * For the record, I don't think WP:SYNTH applies here: it forbids drawing "a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources", but the desired conclusion that Bash is the default login shell is explicitly stated in the file referenced. I have the "B and C" parts described in WP:SYNTH, just not "A", the proposition that  is the default command to add users. But I found a better source, so I'll add that; feel free to remove the old source if you think it's no longer necessary. Q VVERTYVS  (hm?) 12:49, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

 * It is only explictly stated by the source which you provided the other day if you gloss over the interpretation. The second source, likewise (does not mention login shell), and I don't see that in the third source.  Of course, the third alludes to the change which I pointed out should be sourced (certainly there are better sources than this).  There's no point in continuing this discussion. TEDickey (talk) 23:19, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Portability
At least dash seems to be non-portable as it depends on many GNUisms that are not guaranteed to exist on a typical UNIX platform. Schily (talk) 14:12, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Bash-specific featuers may not be so
Many features came from ksh88, and so scripts generally do run under ksh derivatives/clones with no modifications. So perhaps the article should say "ksh-specific" features --Ismael Luceno (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:55, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

 * You really have to be careful because there are so many different versions with different lineages. The final true Almquist version was a fairly barebones Bourne shell clone, for a number of years the primary development was as the NetBSD shell which is where most of the other variants seem to have forked from.  The NetBSD team made a large number of enhancements to the orginal code but for POSIX compliance rather than ksh compatibility (in fact I tend to informally consider the NetBSD /bin/sh as the reference POSIX shell, it's a lot closer than anything else I've seen).  The original POSIX shell specification looked at lot like the traditional Bourne shell, but the revised version (1997?) looked a lot more like ksh88.  While many features may have originated in ksh, once they have made it into POSIX they can hardly be regarded as ksh-specific. 3142 (talk) 12:38, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

topicality of test
A recent edit removed a see-also for test (Unix).

Perhaps someone had added that see-also after reading this page TEDickey (talk) 21:49, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Almquist shell


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User talk:Bloodwater

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --Ryan Delaney talk 02:28, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Intelligent design
Thanks for your interest in contributing to the intelligent design article. Because this is a controversial topic, it's important to discuss significant proposed changes on the talk page. In addition, it's important to remain polite per Wikipedia policy of Avoid personal remarks. Also, to help people follow the discussion on the talk pages, it can be helpful to sign your comments as described above. I look forward to your collaboration on Wikipedia! Jokestress 21:40, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Intelligent design and promoting pov
I've broken the news at Talk:Intelligent design about what I've found at the www.uncommondescent.com archives. I still want to give you a chance to explain yourself before naming you. Correlating posts there to edits here, I'm certain that you are the user "crandaddy" there. There you've participated in coordinating and conducting a pov campaign at wikipedia. Care to explain? FeloniousMonk 05:41, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Bloodwater


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Ong Hok Ham

Ong Hok Ham (1 May 1933 – 30 August 2007) was an eminent Chinese Indonesian historian considered one of the leading experts on Indonesian history during the 19th century Dutch colonial rule. His particular area of knowledge centered on events in Java during the period, and he authored a number of works dealing with the subject.

A native of Surabaya, East Java which, until the founding of Indonesia in 1945, was a part of the Dutch East Indies, Ong Hok Ham lived in the city of his birth for the first twenty-five years of his life. Ong's family was upper-middle class, but through his maternal grandmother, Han Loen Nio, Ong hailed from the patrician Han family of Lasem, part of the baba bangsawan or the Chinese gentry of colonial Indonesia, and from a long line of Chinese officers who served in the civil bureaucracy in the Dutch East Indies. Ong could, thus, trace his lineage in Java back, through Han Bwee Kong, Kapitein der Chinezen (1727–1778), to Han Siong Kong (1673–1743), a Chinese-born migrant of ancient lineage. Like others from old Peranakan Chinese families, Ong grew up between Chinese, Javanese and Dutch cultures.

In 1958, Ong moved to Bandung, West Java, where he received his schooling and began his writing career. He became increasingly well-known for the historical and cultural articles he wrote for the Jakarta-based magazine Star Weekly. In 1975, he received his Ph.D in History from Yale University with the dissertation The Residency of Madiun: Priyayi and Peasant in the Nineteenth Century.

He was a regular contributor to the Indonesian magazine Tempo and a collection of his pieces for the magazine written between 1976 and 2001, Wahyu yang Hilang, Negeri yang Guncang (A Lost Mandate, an Agitated Country) was published in 2002.

He wrote a series of other books, mostly a collection of essays and articles, including Runtuhnya Hindia Belanda (The Fall of the Netherlands Indies), Negara dan Rakyat (The State and the People), and Dari Soal Priayi sampai Nyi Blorong—Refleksi Historis Nusantara (From Priayi to Nyi Blorong—Historical Reflections on the Indonesian Archipelago).

An English-language collection of his writings, The Thugs, the Curtain Thief, and the Sugar Lord, received publication in 2003. The book chronicled power, politics and culture in colonial Java.

In 1989, he retired from his duties as professor of history at the University of Indonesia. His final responsibility was as chairman of the Lembaga Studi Sejarah Indonesia (the Indonesian Institute of Historical Studies).

Ong Hok Ham, who was a Buddhist, suffered a stroke in 2001 and died six years later at Dharmais Cancer Hospital in West Jakarta at the age of 74.

title: Ong Hok Ham


text:
Category:Disability organizations

This category relates pages dealing with organizations which advocate for or benefit disabled people.

title: Category:Disability organizations


text:
Osceola and St. Croix Valley Railway

The Osceola and St. Croix Valley Railway is a heritage railroad in Osceola, Wisconsin owned and operated by the Minnesota Transportation Museum. It operates on former Minneapolis, St. Paul and Sault Ste. Marie Railroad ("Soo Line") trackage now owned by the Canadian National Railway.

History and operations
The original Museum railway operated out of Stillwater, Minnesota, however urban crowding caused the railway to seek other areas for service. Invited to operate out of Osceola, Wisconsin, the railway moved in 1992, undergoing a name change to Osceola and St. Croix Valley Railway.

The line itself has operating rights from Withrow, Minnesota up to Dresser, Wisconsin. Due to climate conditions, the line does not operate in winter.

Under successive railroad ownership of the rail line "right-of-way" itself, Operations are currently based in the historic 1916 Soo Line depot, owned by the Osceola Historic Society and leased to the Minnesota Transportation Museum for its rail operations.

The line follows the original route of the Soo Line, running down the bluffs of the St. Croix River, and crossing into Minnesota on the 1887 iron bridge at Cedar Bend, then on to Marine on St. Croix through William O'Brien State Park.

The railway operates every weekend May through October. On alternating weekends it operates the Osceola and St. Croix Dinner Train.

Equipment

The railroad uses historic diesel locomotives from its fleet of Electro-Motive Diesel (EMD) locomotives. It uses a variety of passenger cars for historic presentation and tourist runs throughout the operational season. The railroad runs coach trains every weekend from mid-May through October to Marine on St. Croix (Saturdays and Sundays) and to Dresser (on Saturday).

All operational equipment is serviced at MTM's Jackson Street Roundhouse, a functional railway roundhouse constructed in 1907. The Museum has its headquarters and maintenance base co-located at JSR, which is open to the public for railroad history. Every fall, 2–3 locomotives and up to 5 cars are ferried to St. Paul for annual servicing before returning to Osceola in late spring. Over winter, the maintenance shop demonstrate the servicing and repairs, being one of the few such facilities open to the public.

Locomotives
These are the locomotives that are active or in restoration for service on the Osceola and St. Croix Valley Railway:

title: Osceola and St. Croix Valley Railway


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Legends Magazine

Legends Magazine was a literary and music magazine founded by writer Marcus Pan in 1990. Over a 15 year period, the magazine released 150 issues. It covers themes of dark horror, fantasy and science fiction and surrealism in its literary scope and reviews and discusses music in the gothic, punk, heavy metal, electronica and similar darker genres. It also includes book reviews, DVD reviews and issues related to the goth and punk subcultures.

History
Legends magazine began in October, 1990 under the direction of Marcus Pan who continues as editor-in-chief. Originally started as a self-serving fanzine that covered science fiction, fantasy and gaming, it was intended to be a short lived project of three issues in length. It nonetheless continued and evolved, adding more work from other writers and artists as time drew on.

Around 1996 the Legends Online site was born on the World Wide Web and eventually the text of all articles and scans of all imaging was available online. The magazine added such notable writers as Dan Century, Cameron Rodgers, Logan Russell and Sue Simpson to its staff who later went on to writing careers of their own. The musical aspect started to find its way into more mainstream sections of Legends a couple years after the website version went up.

At this time Legends struggled to embody a music magazine format while not losing its literary side, an act that may be a failure or a success depending on whom you ask. The music aspect continued to grow as interviews with such artists as Alien Sex Fiend, Distorted Reality, Nashville Pussy and Dave Smalley, to name only a few, brought more widespread readers to the magazine. Literature and fiction is still embodied in the magazine, though months can go by before a fictional feature comes up, but music has taken hold as a major aspect of the magazine's continuing format.

In addition to these main ideas, Legends also features the 'Off the Shelf' book review column, DVD and movie reviews, 'Horrorscopes' by Auntie PanPan and, until recently, political columnist and satirist the Mean Little Man. The professionalism of the magazine itself began to change in mid-2003 when editor Marcus Pan partnered with Mean Little Man productions.

Mean Little Man Productions
In mid-2003 Legends Magazine ' s editor Marcus Pan partnered with Mean Little Man Productions in an attempt to further Legends Magazine ' s reach and potential. Marcus would continue to handle the creative and writing direction of the magazine while MLM would further the marketing and promotions of same. As time wore on for a couple years it became apparent that the two parties were incompatible when it came to working together on a business scale, with MLM arguing that the direction of the magazine wasn't being taken seriously enough while Marcus argued that the direction of the magazine was fine and fulfills the goals that he had in mind since inception - promoting music, writing himself and providing a forum for new fiction writers and essayists. The partnership was almost immediately dissolved following the 150th issue party.

The partnership however began a new era for Legends Magazine as the work done by MLM provided new features to the periodical. The website was redesigned and is still in use today and the hardcopy edition of the magazine itself took on a much more professional look and feel with the same layout also still in use. While the MLM and Marcus Pan partnership may have dissolved, it did bring plenty of good things to the table that the magazine continues to use and build on.

Legends 150th Issue Party
Legends Magazine held a party surrounding their 150th issue release on June 25, 2005 at Club Rare in New York City's Manhattan district. The party featured live music by Bitter Grace, Bunker Soldier, State of Being, Amber Spyglass and Christopher Eissing, all bands except Bitter Grace having come from different states. It also featured DJ CSB running the turntables in between music and handling the stage.

Ticket sales for the event were dismally low and the magazine nearly folded after having to cover the bar guarantee that was agreed to with the club. While the party went well, it was under-attended causing havoc in the Legends Magazine ranks. The party itself was featured on Manhattan television on a show called the Vampyre Lounge and the publicity was done well, but few came out to see the results. Following the party Legends foundered for a few months before finally returning with the 151st issue months later in September, 2005.

The party, however, resulted in the splitting of Mean Little Man Productions and editor Marcus Pan's partnership as a falling out occurred during the course of the evening.

Continuing on
While the dissolving of the most prominent partnership in Legends Magazine ' s history was a heavy blow to the periodical at the time, Legends Magazine stumbled on now back under the sole direction of editor Marcus Pan. The arrival of Legends #151 proved its continuation in September, 2005 while two months was spent in hiatus to recover from the dissolving. Writers such as JHR, Sue Simpson, Jeff Franzmann, ACyD Burn and Kim Mercil, among others, continue to provide content to the issue and while expenses for the magazine were scaled back as much as possible (bands and labels receiving tear sheets of their reviews rather than a full copy of the issue) for the time being it continues to print.

Currently Legends Online, the web version and companion site to the hardcopy edition, continues strongly receiving as many as 20,000 hits a day and as many as 50,000 readers per month. The full text and electronic versions of all issues are still available and once again become available immediately (during the Mean Little Man partnership online versions were delayed a month for marketing reasons). October, 2005 marks Legends Magazine's 15th anniversary.

title: Legends Magazine


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Keikhu

Keikhu (also Keikhoo) is a village, itself consisting of two twin villages, in the Imphal East district of Manipur, India. The village in the south, known as Keikhu Kabui, is inhabited by the Kabui tribes, the early settlers of the place. The one in the north, known as Keikhu Muslim, belongs to a mixed tribe who identifies themselves as Pangal, a collective term used for Manipuri-Muslims.

Geography
The villages are located approximately 2 km ESE of Imphal, capital of the state of Manipur. The village lies along the Baruni hill, visited by Hindus as a ritual during the festival celebrating Shiva. The two villages are geographically divided by a rivulet. The village suffered from destructive flooding in 2010.

Demographics
The two villages of Keikhu belong to under-represented minorities in the state. One is inhabited by Kabuis, a Schedule Tribe, and the other by Pangals, a Scheduled Caste. The Keikhu-Kabuis speak the Kabui Naga language, while the Keikhu-Pangal speak the Pangal dialect of Meiteilon.

Ethnic conflict
There have been violent confrontations between the two communities from at least 1993 to 2023, as well as calls for peace from community groups and leaders. A camp was set up in Keikhu for displaced victims of wider ethinic conflict in the region.

Community and events
Keikhu hosts large annual Gaan-Ngai celebrations.

title: Keikhu


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Yellow Crane Tower

Yellow Crane Tower is a traditional Chinese tower located in Wuhan. The current structure was built from 1981 to 1985, but the tower has existed in various forms from as early as AD 223. The current Yellow Crane Tower is 51.4 m high and covers an area of 3219 m2. It is situated on Snake Hill (蛇山), one kilometer away from the original site, on the banks of the Yangtze River in Wuchang District.

History
The Yuanhe Maps and Records of Prefectures and Counties, written almost 600 years after the construction of the tower, notes that after Sun Quan, founder of the kingdom of Eastern Wu, built the fort of Xiakou in 223, a tower was constructed at/on the Yellow Crane Jetty, west of Xiakou, and hence its name.

The tower has been destroyed twelve times, both by warfare and by fire, in the Ming and Qing dynasties and was repaired on ten separate occasions. The last tower at the original site was built in 1868 and destroyed in 1884. In 1907, a new tower was built near the site of the Yellow Crane Tower. Zhang Zhidong proposed "Aolüe Tower" as the name of this tower and wrote an antithetical couplet for it. In 1957, the Wuhan Yangtze River Bridge was built with one trestle of the bridge on the Yellow Crane Tower's site. In 1981, the Wuhan City Government commenced reconstruction of the tower at a new location, about 1 km from the original site, and it was completed in 1985.

Relic Protection
The Sacred Stupa is 9.36 meters high and 5.68 meters wide. It is built with external stone and internal bricks, mainly stone masonry. A small amount of bricks are used in the internal tower room. It is the oldest and most complete single building preserved on the former site of the Yellow Crane Tower. The Sacred Stupa is a stupa of Tibetan Buddhism, and it is an example of the first type of stupa after Buddhism was brought from India to China. It is the only existing Lama-style white stupa in Wuhan, and it provides important physical materials for studying the history and religion of the historical and cultural significance of Wuhan in the late Yuan and early Ming Dynasties.

Legends
Notwithstanding the tower's current location on Snake Hill being unrelated to its original location one kilometre away, the two popular legends related to it invoke the hill. In the first, an Immortal (仙人) named Wang Zi'an (王子安) rode away from Snake Mountain on a yellow crane and a tower was later built in commemoration of this story. In the second legend, Fei Yi becomes immortal and rides a yellow crane, often stopping on Snake Hill to take a rest.

The tower is also a sacred site of Taoism. Lü Dongbin is said to have ascended to heaven from here. There is a small cave in the hill beneath the tower with Lü Dongbin statue. The cave has been called Lü Zu Dong, literately meaning cave of Lü Dongbin.

Poem by Cui Hao
Yellow Crane Tower was made famous by an 8th-century poem written by Cui Hao, titled "Yellow Crane Tower" (黃鶴樓). The original text of the poem is shown below:

昔人已乘黃鶴去， 此地空餘黃鶴樓. 黃鶴一去不復返， 白雲千載空悠悠. 晴川歷歷漢陽樹， 芳草萋萋鸚鵡洲. 日暮鄉關何處是， 煙波江上使人愁.

A modern English translation is:

Long ago one's gone riding the yellow crane, all that remained is the Yellow Crane Tower. Once the yellow crane left it will never return, for one thousand years the clouds wandered carelessly. The clear river reflects each Hanyang tree, fragrant grasses lushly grow on Parrot Island. At sunset, which direction leads to my hometown? One could not help feeling melancholy along the misty river.

Poem by Li Bai
There are other famous poems about the Yellow Crane Tower by Li Bai. One was written on the occasion of Li Bai parting with his friend and poetic colleague, Meng Haoran. The poem is titled "Seeing off Meng Haoran for Guangling at Yellow Crane Tower" (黃鶴樓送孟浩然之廣陵), and is shown in its original form below:

故人西辭黃鶴樓， 煙花三月下揚州. 孤帆遠影碧空盡， 唯見長江天際流.

A modern English translation is:

My old friend bids farewell to me in the west at Yellow Crane Tower. Amid March's mist and flowers he goes down to Yangzhou. The distant image of his lonely sail disappears in the blue sky, And all I see is the Long River flowing to the edge of sky.

Tourism
The tower and its surroundings have been marked as Yellow Crane Tower Park. There are tour services that can be hired for a fee at the entrance. The top of the tower has a broad view of its surroundings and the Yangtze River. Yellow Crane Tower is considered one of the Four Great Towers of China. In its modern version, it has the appearance of an ancient tower but is built of modern materials, including an elevator. Each level has its own display. To the east on the hill, a large temple bell may be rung by tourists for a small fee. There are court dances in the western yard during the week-long National Day of the People's Republic of China celebration. The tower is classified as an AAAAA scenic area by the China National Tourism Administration. At south side of the tower, there is a statue of Yue Fei because he was garrison around this area in Song Dynasty.

title: Yellow Crane Tower


text: Talk:Scott Ramsoomair

title: Talk:Scott Ramsoomair


text: File:Cellar Door cover.jpg

title: File:Cellar Door cover.jpg


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John C. Campbell

John Charles Campbell (14 September 1867 – 1919) was an American educator and reformer noted for his survey of social conditions in the southern Appalachian region of the United States during the early 1900s. He served a term as president of Piedmont College from 1904 to 1907.

Background
Campbell was born to Gavin and Anna Barbara Campbell, and grew up in Stevens Point, Wisconsin. He graduated from Williams College in 1892 and received a bachelor of divinity degree from Andover Theological Seminary in 1895.

Campbell studied education and theology in New England before traveling to the Southern United States. There he outfitted a wagon to serve as a mobile house as he interviewed working people, particularly farmers.

Campbell married first wife Grace H. Buckingham, who died in 1905. In 1907 he married folklorist Olive Dame of West Medford, Massachusetts.

After Campbell's death, his wife Olive established the John C. Campbell Folk School in 1925 in Brasstown, North Carolina.

title: John C. Campbell


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Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Archive 2

I know you're thinking what I'm thinking
Somebody just needs to say it out loud...since the dissolution of the provisional government Esparanza has lost its way! The charter does not reflect the will of the hardworking Wikipedians who most desperately need its services, and who make this encyclopedia possible. Caudillo Carriker was relieved of his leadership in what essentially amounted to a crude coup d'etat by the fatcat Wikifunctionaries who so shamelessly aspire to the Advisory Committee. The Assembly, which would have served as the arm of government most responsive to the needs of ordinary Wikipedians, has been jettisoned in favor of...nothing. Why? Bureaucracy, they tell us. The reality is that the Assembly represented the only true check on the powers of the Advisory Committee. They guaranteed this by immediately nominating the Caudillo to the position of Administrator General. Oh yes, to be sure. They publicly emasculate him and relieve him of his power, so that he understands damn well who is calling the shots. Then they essentially appoint the chastened Caudillo to the defanged Admin General position, where we can be sure that he will know full well not to cross the Advisory Committee, lest they publicly humiliate him and defrock him once again. What we've seen here is a gradual but transparent consolidation of power by those few Wikipedians who will soon man the Advisory Committe. At this point I see only one feasible option: I am forming a Provisional Esparanzian Government in Exile on my Userpage. From there we hope, one day, to restore the power and the idealism that existed for those few, beautiful days in early September when the Esparanzian Revolution had yet to be co-opted by the Cabal. Babajobu 22:38, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, now this is really getting farcical. We don't need a provisional government. We don't need an assembly. We don't need an advisory committee. We don't need an Administrator General. What it would be nice to see instead would be some actual action, instead of this pseudo-micronationalism. Ambi 22:52, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
 * There are two wings, JCarriker's wing is for bureaucracy and government. Ambi's wing is for none of this at all. I myself was trying to compromise. I see a few problem with Babajobu's comments, like "The reality is that the Assembly represented the only true check on the powers of the Advisory Committee." Well, the advisory committee and the assembly never existed at the same time, the assembly was erased in favor of the advisory committee. The group has nothing against JCarriker and we respect him as much as a wikipedian respects Jimbo. And the advisory committe did NOT appoint JCarriker, in fact, it doesn't even exist yet. JCarriker has no enemies within esperanza, and a provisional government is a dumb idea for the reason that... it was a provisional government! JCarriker planned it to be killed off when he made the charter. His only problem was how I killed off the assembly, because many people thought it was too bureaucratical. R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 23:01, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, the founder is leaving, and the association does not appear to be doing much along the lines of its stated purpose to retain him. Perhaps a break from the squabbling to leave a few "please don't leave over this" messages is in order? -- Essjay ·  Talk 23:04, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Those interested in running for advisory council
See Esperanza/2005_Advisory_Committee_Elections. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 23:17, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

IRC
Our IRC channel is up and running. It's located at #wp-esperanza. Although I've withdrawn formal membership until the association's current problems are settled, I will remain the association's contact (as changing contacts may be a bit difficult). Anyone and everyone should feel free to drop in. -- Essjay ·  Talk 22:08, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Essjay, I wasn't able to link...it came up dead...can you relink it?--MONGO 02:20, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

You have to have an IRC client (it's like an IRC browser). (If you don't have one, see List of IRC clients) If you don't, you can't get into the channel; if you do have a client and the link doesn't work (it works for me), you can join the server irc.freenode.net and then join channel #wp-esperanza. I think Firefox has a built in client, but I'm not sure about that. -- Essjay ·  Talk 14:38, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Firefox doesn't support IRC by default - I get "IRC is not a registered protocol." -- Dave C.talk 15:26, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

The Death of Esperanza
We have lost our leader due to my actions. I myself am feeling guilty, and can't now see much of a future. Meanwhile, Babajobu claims there's a cabal in the advisory committee and posts a message like this. There's a tiny civil war on government, and we haven't even had a true purpose. The users listed at WP:ESP/A haven't been getting much help from us, which is, thusfar, our only purpose. There's many other problems. I don't see how we're supposed to run this when someone said I formed a cabal to usurp JCarriker, (perhaps formerly) one of my best friends at Wikipedia, and he said to massacre our advisory committee. I want to keep what little government we have, as I know JCarriker wanted to have some, even if he preferred the assembly over the committee. Yet some people are saying government of any sort would be evil. I myself feel government promotes direction and even obligates users holding positions to work on the project. We don't agree with eachother and this fraternal organization seems to be failing. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 23:13, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
 * This is why I'm so bemused at the drive to create bureaucracy here. This is such a good idea, and it would really be helpful to the project if it got up and running. I know there's an argument that bureaucracy = direction, but it's fairly unprecedented on Wikipedia to do this, and I think you're bound to lose a lot more people than you would gain by having committees and such. Furthermore, instead of carrying out its focus, people end up spending time on elections and such and haggling over the structure of the organisation, as has already happened (where without the bureaucracy, I think people would have already gotten started). That really isn't helpful to the project.` Ambi 23:28, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Is five members in a government really that bad? I mean look at the board of trustees, five members who do anything neccisary. Its not really a bad thing. Ambi I guess my intent was that the five would feel obligated to truly work on Esperanza, whereas most of the community hasn't done too much on the project besides signing up. R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 23:40, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

 * My previous post regarding the creation of a "Provisional Esparanzian Government in Exile" was intended as satire. Like Ambi, I was rather bemused by the proliferation of bureaucratic infrastructure and political infighting in an organization that has the singularly simple goal of spreading positive feelings. I thought a claim to be forming a government in exile would highlight the silliness of it all. Apparently I was wrong; apparently things have gotten so bad that my pseudo-tirade actually seemed reasonable, if melodramatic, in the context of everything that was going on. That's a little scary. Anyway, more importantly, I think this project is needed and I think the fact that a "Good feelings" organization has so quickly devolved into a mess of bitter recriminations and bruised feelings (!!!) should make everyone take a step back here, and realize how crazy this is. It's a good, simple idea. For heaven's sakes don't make it so complicated that it undermines its own purpose. I think everyone should take a break and the first task of each member should be to identify someone who has recently made good edits, and compliment them on those edits. That would be a better use of everyone's time than organizing committees and councils and splinter groups, and so on. Babajobu 00:08, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I had typed out a reply and got an edit conflict, but I really couldn't have said it better. Hear hear. :) Ambi 00:11, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Stop this becoming a farce
Redwolf, please don't be so dramatic. Just because there are a few arguments about the administrative side of Esperanza doesn't mean there's not a huge amount of support and desire for this association. Let's take heed of what Ambi has said. This is becoming a kind of ridiculous farce. The issue of government is actually not quite that important in my opinion. What is far more important is discussion of the role of Esperanza in some detail, working out and agreeing on a "statement of principles"; something like this, which will stimulate activity and include all provisional members.

On the issue of government I tend to think that the "advisory committee" would still be a good idea but I am happy to not have any other governance for Esperanza as I think we are all smart enough to ensure it is SELF-REGULATING. Failing this, I support Ambi's approach. If there seems to become a need for more structured governance down the track then we can have it. It is necessary for Jcarriker to "lose control" of Esperanza but he'll always be remembered as the founer regardless. Lisa 00:27, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I never had any intention of staying in control as can be seen from my previous statemnets. I at least thought that Esperanza would be what I had inteded for it to be instead it has been altered into to beign nothing more than a mirror of the KC. I've left I'm not standing in anyones way with preceding foward with Esperanza, but I have no desire to be a part of it or wikipedia. I had hoped that Esperanza could be one place in Wikipedia free of mob rule, one place where people couldn't be shouted down by the mob. I thought this would be allowed, but now that idea has been crushed and have no further hope that things can be different any time soon. -JCarriker 01:14, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * You are going to leave Wikipedia altogether over this?? Everyone loved your idea! Your idea was to come up with a way of helping to persuade disillusioned Wikipedians not to leave the project. Would you not let the members of the organization you willed into being perform the function of persuading you to stay? Babajobu 01:23, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not leaving just over this, Esperanza is actually brought me back from leaving a few weeks ago. I wanted a place where people could aspire to postions that they actually could attain, rather than just be subject to the defacto rule of senior wikipedians or the mechanations of mob rule. Anyone could lead Esperanza and you had three opporunties to join the Assembly and even if you were unable to do that you still had a hand in putting them in, and because you their wer so many of them in. It was this idea of actually sharing responisbilty and pooling resources that made Esperanza different. Since the idea that kept me at wikipedia has been rejected and has become what it was meant to distinguish itself from, I have lost heart and feel it is simply best to move on to other things. I don't bare any grudges, I was just so intialy hurt and shocked by the manner in which things transpired and am still scratching my head out how this could have possibly happened in the way that it did. -JCarriker 02:08, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't know if I would say that your idea has been rejected. There have been a few complaints about it being "too bureaucratic", but I don't think anyone disagrees on the intent of Esperanza. Redwolf24 tried to somehow accomodate them, with good faith. It might have been wrong, but it was an effort to conciliate and grab even more members. So, let's stop the civil war and think for a little bit about this, ok? Let's air our opinions over a cup of hot coffee and then shake our hands in a civilized manner. Let's think about what we want to do with this. Tito xd 03:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * JCarriker, removing the assembly is far from turning it into a copy of WP:KC. The former doesn't do very much, whereas this had the potential to carry out a wide range of good ideas which would have seriously assisted the project. I really don't see why people need "positions to aspire to" on Wikipedia, and I don't see how this helps the project, but perhaps you could explain otherwise. Ambi 09:45, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Simply put most wikipedians never get the chance to serve as an arbitor, mediator, or board memeber. This leads to the false perception of a cabal. Esperanza's goverment would have offered an outlet for those who want to serve, Esperanzians are suppose to share, and frankly I find the intolerance and subsequent distructon of that idea disconcerting. However, if there is not going to be an assembly the regularly offers people a chance to join it, I am rather of your mind, the Assembly was a unique idea, the advisory committee is not. I fail to see how reducing the number of people in the government makes it more equitable. I do see the need for a leader to provide direction. -JCarriker 18:02, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * See, I don't think any of those three are necessarily something to be aspired to. Arbitration is a hellish job that burns people out very quickly. Most of the people here would be eligible to join the mediation committee. I really don't see that as being a cabal - whereas I think the format of this appeared very much that way (particularly with the advisory committee). Wikipedia is a great place for those who want to share and serve, but I just don't think a formal position is necessary to do that. I do agree, however, that having a leader could well be useful to keep things moving (as long as it isn't seen as a huge thing). Ambi 02:01, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

A New Order Proposal
This project is dying, it badly needs leadership and specific projects. Plenty of people have joined, but do not know what to do, and we need to keep them here before they just get bored with this inactive project. We need to split up into groups and get out there. Perhaps, which users we greet can be based on their name.

We need a new leader, I say Refwolf24 should do, or we can all just vote for the permanent leader if that is the consensus.

We will also need to decide what consitures a modest edit history (30 or so). This would be a level at which new users would be able to receive Esperanza greetings, mediation links and help. We could intervene to mediate disputes and conflicts along with keeping up on "modest" users, so that they might want to stay.

We can all vote to have 4 other editors, for 6 months(unless they resign), to join the leader, so that they form a 5 person administration. The only thing special about the leader would be that: A)He can brake ties if people don't show up or abstain B)He has a permanent position on the administration, unless he resigns or becomes inactive. Then anyone can nominate themselves to replace him.

Anyone can propose to have one of the "big 5" removed from the administration and replaced as long as a 3/4 majority supports it. This would be the only way to vote out the group's main leader.

Anyone can propose and vote to change the charter, but only the administration(5 people) can actually change it, as long as they are upholding the 2/3+ opinion. If there are three options, and only plurality exits, the 5 leaders will have a separate vote and make the decision, off course, the leader could break any ties that might happen there.

This way is not too beauracratic, as the top 5 only come into play to break ties or enforce concensus. Also they will have 6 month terms, so we dont waste time with elections every month. Voice of  All   @ ''' 00:34, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Since I am leaving Wikipedia, Redwolf is the Admin Gen, his position should be respected until an election can be held. -JCarriker 01:22, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not that in favor of elections...but think you should be "first member" and have a notation that you are the founder...otherwise, everyone (including you) should be a member on equal footing...how does that sound?--MONGO 02:18, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Reform?
Okay, Esperanza is desperately in need of reform. I think we can put a lot of this behind us, but esperanzians, let us vote on some things, I'll make a subsection on the main page discussing it. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 02:19, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, I was trying to move my comment about a possible outreach program, which is on the project page, to the talk page and I couldn't edit it...maybe something is wrong with my system...or user error on my part.--MONGO 02:22, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

This was only a test, had this been a real emergency …
Ok It took me awhile, but I think I've figured it out. Obvious really, when you think about it. This "dispute" was all just a guerilla theater experiment cooked up by JC and the wolf, and the rest of the inner Esperanzain secret and all powerful cabal, to confront us with our very own Esperanzian Psychodrama, as a sort of test case, to see how we might handle a real dispute elsewhere. Very clever. But you can't fool me. I didn't just fall off the cabbage truck. Our founder and his best wikifriend fighting? Not likely! Our founder leaving Wikipedia? Get real!

So now that I've exposed this little hoax, it is now time for the post action debriefing. When the alarm bells sounded, did we all rush to splash the flames of feeling with biuckets of wikilove? Did we organize into teams, some racing, to pass out the stores of encouragements, and others to break open the boxes of support? Did we grab quickly for our good humor? Did we dash madly into the inferno to save our founder hanging from a burning bacony far above? How'd we do? Did we pass the test? Paul August ☎ 19:40, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Blasphemer! We have no Founder but Jimbo! 8^ ) But yeah, I am smelling a little something with this whole thing. Stay tuned for the results. -- Lord Vold e  mort  (Dark Mark)  19:50, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmmm interesting theory... I can only hope! ;-) Maltmomma  (chat)  [[Image:Flag_of_Texas.svg|18px]] 20:06, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, that's certainly much easier to believe than the alternative...that this has all been real. Babajobu 22:50, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Well its not interesting if you expose us! Way to explain a joke! R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 01:40, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Identity
Is it "Esperanzian", "Esperantist", "Esperanzer", "Esperanist", et cetera...?? --HappyCamper 23:25, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * It is "Esperanzian", Lisa coined it and created a phrase before anyone else. -JCarriker 00:55, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Welcoming
Is welcoming new users part of Esperanza's duties? I am aware of the Welcoming Commitee but when I check the new users log I see hundreds of unwelcomed users. I welcome the odd one now and then but there are simply so many of them! Anyway, I was just wondering also what became of the birthday wikipedian idea? (And thanks Redwolf for helping out with my signature.) Ban  e  s  11:43, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh, never mind about the birthday, I see there is a calendar up. Perhaps birthday, and first edit anniversary seperate celebrations? Ban e  s  08:40, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

 * If you think not enough users are welcomed, you can post the problem at WP:WC. Oh, and a lot of new users never edit Wikipedia. Those users don't need to be welcomed.--Exir KamalabadiEsperanza 09:12, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

IRC?
Hello fellow Esperanzians. Redwolf's last post to the "spamlist" mentions an irc channel: #wp-esperanza (by the way that link doesn't work for me!?). But I wanted to share with everyone a concern I have about using IRC for wiki-matters. I know IRC is convenient, and can be quite a fun, and sociable experience, and it allows people to get know one another better — all good things. But unfortunately, I think there is a downside as well. Since there will always be users who won't use it (for various reasons — some of which may surprise you!), it will tend inevitably, I think, to create an "inner circle", with the obvious problems that that entails. I also like the fact that there is a public record of all wiki conversations. Does anyone else share these concerns? Or am I just being an old stick in the mud ;-) ? Paul August ☎ 01:52, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm unable to access it either and I'm apt to agree with you for the potential of being left out of the loop. Maltmomma (chat) [[Image:Flag_of_Texas.svg|18px]] 02:07, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Me too. For some reason, I am unable to access it either. I have even tried on multiple computers and multiple browser types. I don't get it. Makes it kind of hard to get into the IRCabal if you cannot access IRC. 8^) -- Lord Vold e  mort  (Dark Mark) 02:11, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I got "IRC is not a registered protocal" error message. I am running FireFox. Voice of  All   @  |  E  |Merit  03:10, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I was able to log on through Mozilla, but the channel was abandoned. I was the only person in there and the only name listed after I logged in. I don't really think that there have been any critical decisions, but then again I'm not exactly in the loop either. -JCarriker 02:49, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

 * We aren't getting a lot of people to idle there; my idea for the channel was more to be a community chat space, rather than to really make any definate decisions there. (I think important discussions should be retained onsite, where there is a record.) Those of you who use Firefox can get the Chatzilla plugin (run a Yahoo! search on chatzilla), others, there are a number of clients availble, see our list at List of IRC clients. Worry not, however, there is not any cabal action going on in the channel, just users chatting or idling in case anyone needs us. -- Essjay ·  Talk 04:25, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Well first of all I hope you all have an IRC client! And then join the server Freenode and then type /join #wp-esperanza    in your IRC window, you should see me and Essjay and possibly Ambi, AceticAcid, Exir, Pureblade, and some others who show up onc ein a while, there idling.  R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 04:27, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

I think it's the "outer circle" for me, not as bad as you might think, when you consider some of the alternatives. ;-) Paul August ☎ 04:45, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, let's not go into Tartarus, OK? Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | WS 14:39, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Will JCarriker accept Red's leader ship offer?- the definitive answer
Since Red Wolf has continually and generously brought up an offer to to return me to adim gen, I have answered definitively in the only way I feel—for now—I can. -JCarriker 04:19, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

The following is from user talk pages:

News

''See WP:ESP/R, WP:ESP/S, WP:RFM, and WP:MC. I'm the acting chair of the medcom now and I've cleaned it up a lot and been trying to get it active again, it seems to be working. I've never seen you mediate and I'd like to observe some time... Also I've been working on a ploy to make you admingen again :P Its a lot of work, plus with the medcom work its too much to handle... Well, see ya around the pedia. R e  dwolf24  (talk) 03:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * ''Matt, Esperanza has soundly rejected my ideas, in other words they don't want to go in the direction I would lead them. Your concern is appreciated, but please remember that we are talking about an organization that rejected my orginal idea and subequently my proposed compromise. Leaders are chosen for their ideas; my ideas have been rejected, not once by Esperanza, but twice and in so doing rejected me as its leader. Its is simply not pratical, and possibly even unethical for me to take the lead of an organization that has twice sidelined my agenda. Besides Esperanza needs a leader that is upbeat and optimisic about its prospects, I'm still recovering from seeing a tolerant community crush a cherished idea; and while that is already forgiven, it will never be forgotten and subsequently be sometime before I trust the community as a whole again. If you are overburdened, might I suggest you try you entice Essjay, I believe he would meet the qualifications for the job perfectly. Thanks. -JCarriker 03:30, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * ''Do you think Washington or Lincoln always had the country agree with them? I'm sure there were times when they feared the country was gonna crash altogether. Regardless, both were elected to second terms, and were we to run an election, you would win by a landslide. R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 03:33, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * ''If I were Admin Gen, the first thing I would do would be make the ESP main page more navigable. The second would be to reinstate the provisional government. Do you really think that would be accepted? I don't. -JCarriker 03:51, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * ''...err I guess you have a point :-/ R  e  dwolf24  (talk) 03:54, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

End of excerpt

title: Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Archive 2