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Talk:Crime in Melbourne/Archive 1

Was the attempted hit on Carl Williams before or after the murder of Gangitano? Because that's also being talked about as a cause. I wonder if there'd be a better location for this article. I wouldn't mind writing articles on some of these people though. Carl was gay.Ambivalenthysteria 12:31, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * It's certainly more than a single news story. I chose the title because of Crime in Sydney, but I agree there's probably a better title. Perhaps something like Organized Crime in Melbourne? - AJ

 * Perhaps, but it depends - is it going to focus on the history of organized crime in Melbourne, going back fifty, sixty, seventy years, or just on the latest turf war? If it's going to focus on the latter, it should probably have a different name. Ambivalenthysteria 13:08, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Why is Chopper Read thrown in there? He's probably one of the important figures in the recent history of organised crime in Melbourne, but as this article stands, it's about the gangland killings, which has nothing to do with him. It's also under that heading. Ambivalenthysteria 12:48, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * I threw Chopper Read because, even if he is not the most important figure, he's the best known. I guess it brings us back to the dillema above, which leads me to the question, do the latest turf wars justify their own article? Or do we do an article on Melbourne's organized crime over several decades (probably more insightful; with research you could build context for the latest turf wars). Or do we have two articles to cover them? I'm up for any of those options... -AJ

 * I wonder what we could use as a title for one on the latest turf wars. I think it could be better to give them their own article - as can by seen by the state of this one, there's a fair bit to write about. Then we could do a (I agree, more insightful) history of organised crime in Melbourne. in this article, and link to the one on the turf wars. Ambivalenthysteria 03:28, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)

How factual is the information in Melbourne Underworld Factions? Some of it seems like a bad crime novel. Hypernovean 13:07, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * What seems particularly wrong there? I think it needs a rewrite, and I have suspicions of copyvio from the same site as Frank Benvenuto. However, I think a lot of that could make for an interesting read. Ambivalenthysteria 07:15, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I was about to post something similar to Hypernovean. And I agree with Ambivalenthysteria; the post is interesting. But my main concern with it - aside from CopyVio - is the basis for the information there. Most of the rest of the article is based on newspaper articles; what's the source for that section? Is it anything other than mere speculation and gossip?

 * That wouldn't be as much of a problem, until I also noticed that the disclaimer I put at the top is now gone... --AmishThrasher 10:32, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * It's received a heck of a lot of press coverage. I don't think the press articles are too bad a source, and it's certainly an important issue at the moment, with the corruption debate going on. As long as there's no copyvio issues, I can't see any reason for it not to stay, with a copyedit.

 * What disclaimer was this, though? Ambivalenthysteria 11:36, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

pre-WWII crime in Melbourne
I am wondering what, if any, work is being planned for the Early History of this article?

There's certainly a lot of material available, especially given Frank Hardy's "fictional" novel Power Without Glory and similar. It's been a few years since I've read up on much of it, but it's certainly something I wouldn't mind delving into again. Particularly the roles of Jack Wren, Squizzy Taylor, Daniel Mannix and Frank Hardy (in publishing it). It also includes the time of the only ever police strike in Melbourne and all sorts of other entertainment.

BenM 07:51, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Good bloody question.... at the moment I only have informatoin form the painters and dockers onwards, so we need pre 1950s stuff there Agnte 20:40, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

--

Why is the Liberal Party of Australia a "right-wing" party and the ALP a "centre-right" party? I am not trying to create an argument here, but i think it'd be more factually accurate if these terms were edited out. Perhaps it could be pointed out that the Liberal Party is the more conservative of the two, if it is deemed necessary to demonstrate your point, because "right-wing" makes it sound like some neo-nazi group.

-lara

please cleanup article
this article is a mess, the structure is confused, history is spread out over different sections. it needs a good rewrite/restructure. if i knew more about melbourne and/or melbourne crime, i'd do it. clarkk 13:43, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is at the right place in the first place. While a history of organized crime in Melbourne may be an interesting article, this isn't that article (and even if it was, it should be renamed anyway). Anyway, I'd prefer to see it renamed ****-05 Melbourne gangland war or something along those lines. It'd be much easier then to get it into some sort of decent shape. Ambi 14:12, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I look at this article a lot and shake my head. I often wonder where to go with it. How about we rename it Operation Purana, which is what the taskforce investigating the Melbourne underworld murders is known as? We can then trim the remainder of left over information into useful stubs. Half of the guys mentioned in this article had nothing to do with the underworld war and need removing if we're taking that direction. -- Longhair | Talk 17:30, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I think this should really be split into three articles - History of organized crime in Melbourne for the earlier stuff, ****-2005 Melbourne gangland war or something similar as a timeline of events (and giving the broader picture, such as the political ramifications, and a more specific Operation Purana, on the investigation and capture of those involved. Ambi 05:00, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Attempting to do this now Agnte 17:17, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Where the heck does this 'information' come from?
I think this article suffers not from structural issues so much as from being utterly ridiculous. "Caulfield, a Jewish Suburb" - even the Herald Sun wouldn't print this vague rubbish. Someone needs to come clean and explain where their sources came from - something to the effect of "My sister's boyfriend said that his brother said that his mate's cousin read in the paper one night...", no doubt. -Colonel Mustard

Parking some completely unreferenced stuff here until someone comes up with some actual evidence to support it
The validity of the following section is not established.

Melbourne underworld factions

The Mafia (or Honored Society) Former Godfather: Frank Benvenuto

The Melbourne Mafia controls the fruit and vegetable industry and markets of Melbourne. Since the Market Wars of 60’s the headquarters have moved from Queen Victoria Market, and now operate out of the Footscray Wholesale market. The Mafia’s activities include price fixing, extortion, marijuana growing and cocaine/ heroin importing. In 1999 Joe Quadara former millionaire and market identity was shot dead by two men as he arrived for work. Then in 2000 Godfather Frank Benvenuto was shot dead outside his Beaumaris home, some believe it to be payback for the 1992 killing of brother-in-law Alfonso Muratore.

The Organatiza (or Russian Mafia) Boss: Unnamed

The Organatiza operates out of St Kilda (red light district) and Caufield (a Jewish suburb). The organisation consists of members who have an Eastern European or Former Soviet Republics background. Its main activities include abalone poaching, fraud, extortion, prostitution and immigration and mail-order bride rackets. In 2003 Istvan "Steve" Gulyas and his wife were executed; They ran a dating agency linking Victorian men with Russian woman. The agency was suspected of doubling as a brothel. In 2002 Michael Goldman had attempted to execute fellow criminal turned informer Alexander Kudryavstev with a bullet to the head.

The Painters and Dockers Most prominent figure: Graeme "The Munster" Kinniburgh

A loose coalition of Australian criminals, the Painter and Dockers control the wharves and docks of the Port of Melbourne. During the Dock Wars of the 80’s over 40 men were killed. The groups main activities include standing over drug shipments and other contraband, ghosting rackets, large scale theft and drug importing. Victor Peirce and Jason Moran both murdered have worked as painters and dockers. In 2003 Graeme "The Munster" Kinniburgh was executed outside his Kew house. He was a master safecracker with infamous Magnetic Drill Gang and fence for the UK-based shoplifting group known as the Kangaroo Gang.

The Carlton Crew Former Boss: Alphonse Gangitano Current Boss: Dominic “the Don” Gatto

A predominantly Italian group that operates out of Carlton (the little Italy of Melbourne) and surrounding areas, with links to the Mafia. The groups main activities include standing over restaurants/ night clubs/ building sites, illegal gaming and the manufacture of party drugs. In 1998 the “prince of lygon street” Alphonse Gangitano was shot dead. In 1999 Vincenzo Mannella was shot dead near his home, months later brother Gerardo Manella was shot dead. In 2004 current boss Dominic “the Don” Gatto was arrested for killing suspected hit man Andrew “Benji” Veniamen.

The Sunshine Crew Former Boss: Dino Dibra

A predominantly Italian group similar to the Carlton Crew that operates out of Sunshine and the inner western suburbs of Melbourne. The groups various activities include growing hydroponic marijuana, a stolen car racket, kidnap/ extortion and drug dealing. In 2000 mob leader Dino Dibra was blasted to death outside a home in West Sunshine. In 2002 partner in crime Rocco Arico was the main suspect in the execution of stand over man Richard "The Lionheart" Mladenich. Following this Rocco Arico and Terrence Chimirri pleaded guilty to kidnapping for ransom.

The Pettingill Clan Matriarch: Kath Pettingill

The Pettingill Clan is an extended crime family that still remains 49 strong and operates out of Richmond. The groups main activities include drugs, vice and robbery. The Matriarch Kath Pettingill used to run several brothels in the Richmond area. In 1987 Dennis “Dr D” Allen (one of Kath’s sons) died of drug-induced heart failure, he was connected to up to 15 underworld murders. Then in 2002 Victor Pierce (one of Kath’s sons) acquitted of murder over the Walsh Street police shootings, and hired muscle for Godfather Frank Benvenuto, was executed in Port Melbourne.

The Moran Family Former patriarch: Lewis “the Fly” Moran

The Moran Family has their roots with the painters and dockers and is heavily involved in the drug scene they operate out of the Pascoe Vale/ Essendon area. In 2000 Mark Moran was executed in front of his $1 million home, just like his father Leslie "Johnny" Cole who was executed near his home in the 80’s Sydney Underworld War. In 2003 Jason Moran along with bodyguard Pasquale “Little Pat” Barbaro were executed in Essendon. In 2004 Lewis “the Fly” Moran was executed in Brunswick also hit was Herbert “Bertie” Wrout. “Tuppence” Moran is now left flying the flag.

The Williams Family Boss: Carl “the Commissioner” Williams

Relative newcomers to the amphetamine industry, sometimes referred to as “Steptoe and Son”, the father and son drug team of George and Carl Williams operating out of Broadmeadows in the north western suburbs. In 1999 Carl Williams was shot in the stomach by one of the Moran brothers over unpaid debts. Defacto Brother-in-law Thomas Hentschell along with Victor “the Marathon Man” Brincat were charged over the murder of drug dealer Michael Marshall. In 2004 Andrew “Benji” Veniamen who acted as a bodyguard for Carl Williams was shot dead, he was the suspected hitman in up to 7 underworld deaths.

Other crime syndicates
 * The Radev Gang
 * The Mokbel Brothers
 * The Chinese Triads

It all sounds great, reminds me of the last Cliff Hardy novel I read. Damn good story. Is any of it true? Where are the references? Tannin 11:11, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Needs more info on other crimes e.g. "Mr Cruel"

Thoughts on Attempted Cleanup
So the bulk of the information (under history) about the tit for tat killings between 1998 (Gangitano murder) and 2004 (Veniamin murder, Carl Williams arrest) needs to go into a seperate section, called something like Melbourne gangland killings (98-04), as this bit of history should only be one section of a much more general Crime in Melbourne article  Agnte 16:37, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've done this, will do more, work in progress, still needs cleanup and a boatload of references Agnte 17:24, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Pulled out specific references to melbourne underworld - thats all going in Melbourne gangland killings, have started to index for the majoy events we have pages for. not sure if its better under a timeline or headings for each incident, or other listing suggestions....? Agnte 19:33, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

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Nathan Good

Nathan Good (born 1975) is an American musician, known for being the first drummer of indie rock band Death Cab for Cutie. He performed all drum tracks for their album Something About Airplanes. On the album We Have the Facts and We're Voting Yes, he performed on "The Employment Pages" and "Company Calls Epilogue", but left during the recording of the album to get married. In the early 2000s, Good played drums for the indie rock band The Revolutionary Hydra, appearing on two of their albums, and recorded drum tracks with engineer/producer Chris Walla of Death Cab for Cutie that were later used on the album "Make Good Choices" by Sean Nelson (formerly of the band Harvey Danger).

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User:The Loon

Hello

I'm fairly new to wikipedia so i'll keep this page nice and short.

My name is The Loon and I live in the beautiful county of Lancashire, England. I hope to write on a wide range of subjects here on wikipedia and I look forward to meeting its many members.

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1998 Lambeth London Borough Council election

Elections to Lambeth London Borough Council were held on 7 May 1998. The whole council was up for election and the Labour Party took overall control of the council.

Election result

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Trzeboń

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Aboriginal Australians

Aboriginal Australians are the various Indigenous peoples of the Australian mainland and many of its islands, excluding the ethnically distinct people of the Torres Strait Islands.

People first migrated to Australia at least 65,000 years ago, and over time formed as many as 500 language-based groups. They have a broadly shared, complex genetic history, but only in the last 200 years were they defined by others as, and started to self-identify as, a single group. Aboriginal identity has changed over time and place, with family lineage, self-identification, and community acceptance all of varying importance.

Aboriginal Australians have a wide variety of cultural practices and beliefs that make up the oldest continuous cultures in the world. At the time of European colonisation of Australia, the Aboriginal people consisted of complex cultural societies with more than 250 languages and varying degrees of technology and settlements.

Languages (or dialects) and language-associated groups of people are connected with stretches of territory known as "Country", with which they have a profound spiritual connection. Over the millennia, Aboriginal people developed complex trade networks, inter-cultural relationships, law and religions.

Contemporary Aboriginal beliefs are a complex mixture, varying by region and individual across the continent. They are shaped by traditional beliefs, the disruption of colonisation, religions brought to the continent by Europeans, and contemporary issues. Traditional cultural beliefs are passed down and shared through dancing, stories, songlines, and art that collectively weave an ontology of modern daily life and ancient creation known as Dreaming.

In the past, Aboriginal people lived over large sections of the continental shelf. They were isolated on many of the smaller offshore islands and Tasmania when the land was inundated at the start of the Holocene inter-glacial period, about 11,700 years ago. Despite this, Aboriginal people maintained extensive networks within the continent and certain groups maintained relationships with Torres Strait Islanders and the Makassar people of modern-day Indonesia. Studies of Aboriginal groups' genetic makeup are ongoing, but evidence suggests that they have genetic inheritance from ancient Asian but not more modern peoples. They share some similarities with Papuans, but have been isolated from Southeast Asia for a very long time.

In the, Indigenous Australians comprised 3.8% of Australia's population.

Most Aboriginal people today speak English and live in cities. Some may use Aboriginal phrases and words in Australian Aboriginal English (which also has a tangible influence of Aboriginal languages in the phonology and grammatical structure). Many but not all also speak the various traditional languages of their clans and peoples.

Aboriginal people, along with Torres Strait Islander people, have a number of severe health and economic deprivations in comparison with the wider Australian community.

Origins
DNA studies have confirmed that "Aboriginal Australians are one of the oldest living populations in the world, certainly the oldest outside of Africa". Their ancestors left the African continent 75,000 years ago. They may have the oldest continuous culture on earth. In Arnhem Land in the Northern Territory, oral histories comprising complex narratives have been passed down by Yolngu people through hundreds of generations. The Aboriginal rock art, dated by modern techniques, shows that their culture has continued from ancient times.

The ancestors of present-day Aboriginal Australian people migrated from Southeast Asia by sea during the Pleistocene epoch and lived over large sections of the Australian continental shelf when the sea levels were lower. At that time, Australia, Tasmania and New Guinea were part of the same landmass, known as Sahul.

As sea levels rose, the people on the Australian mainland and nearby islands became increasingly isolated, some on Tasmania and some of the smaller offshore islands when the land was inundated at the start of the Holocene, the inter-glacial period that started about 11,700 years ago. Scholars of this ancient history believe that it would have been difficult for Aboriginal people to have originated purely from mainland Asia. Not enough people would have migrated to Australia and surrounding islands to fulfill the beginning of the size of the population seen in the 19th century. Scholars believe that most Aboriginal Australians originated from Southeast Asia. If this is the case, Aboriginal Australians were among the first in the world to have completed sea voyages.

A 2017 paper in Nature evaluated artefacts in Kakadu. Its authors concluded "Human occupation began around 65,000 years ago".

A 2021 study by researchers at the Australian Research Council Centre of Excellence for Australian Biodiversity and Heritage has mapped the likely migration routes of the peoples as they moved across the Australian continent to its southern reaches and what is now Tasmania, then part of the mainland. The modelling is based on data from archaeologists, anthropologists, ecologists, geneticists, climatologists, geomorphologists and hydrologists.

It is intended to compare this data with the oral histories of Aboriginal peoples, including Dreaming stories, Australian rock art, and linguistic features of the many Aboriginal languages which reveal how the peoples developed separately. The routes, dubbed "superhighways" by the authors, are similar to current highways and stock routes in Australia.

Lynette Russell of Monash University believes that the new model is a starting point for collaboration with Aboriginal people to help reveal their history. The new models suggest that the first people may have landed in the Kimberley region in what is now Western Australia about 60,000 years ago. They migrated across the continent within 6,000 years. A 2018 study using archaeobotany dated evidence of continuous human habitation at Karnatukul (Serpent's Glen) in the Carnarvon Range in the Little Sandy Desert in WA from around 50,000 years ago.

Genetics
Genetic studies have revealed that Aboriginal Australians largely descended from an Eastern Eurasian population wave during the Initial Upper Paleolithic. They are most closely related to other Oceanians, such as Melanesians. The Aboriginal Australians also show affinity to other Australasian populations, such as Negritos, as well as to East Asian peoples. Phylogenetic data suggests that an early initial eastern lineage (ENA) trifurcated somewhere in South Asia, and gave rise to Australasians (Oceanians), Ancient Ancestral South Indian (AASI), Andamanese and the East/Southeast Asian lineage, including ancestors of the Native Americans. Papuans may have received approximately 2% of their geneflow from an earlier group (xOOA) as well, next to additional archaic admixture in the Sahul region.

Aboriginal people are genetically most similar to the indigenous populations of Papua New Guinea, and more distantly related to groups from East Indonesia. They are more distinct from the indigenous populations of Borneo and Malaysia, sharing drift with them than compared to the groups from Papua New Guinea and Indonesia. This indicates that populations in Australia were isolated for a long time from the rest of Southeast Asia. They remained untouched by migrations and population expansions into that area, which can be explained by the Wallace line.

In a 2001 study, blood samples were collected from some Warlpiri people in the Northern Territory to study their genetic makeup (which is not representative of all Aboriginal peoples in Australia). The study concluded that the Warlpiri are descended from ancient Asians whose DNA is still somewhat present in Southeastern Asian groups, although greatly diminished. The Warlpiri DNA lacks certain information found in modern Asian genomes, and carries information not found in other genomes. This reinforces the idea of ancient Aboriginal isolation.

Genetic data extracted in 2011 by Morten Rasmussen et al., who took a DNA sample from an early-20th-century lock of an Aboriginal person's hair, found that the Aboriginal ancestors probably migrated through South Asia and Maritime Southeast Asia, into Australia, where they stayed. As a result, outside of Africa, the Aboriginal peoples have occupied the same territory continuously longer than any other human populations. These findings suggest that modern Aboriginal Australians are the direct descendants of the eastern wave, who left Africa up to 75,000 years ago. This finding is compatible with earlier archaeological finds of human remains near Lake Mungo that date to approximately 40,000 years ago. The idea of the "oldest continuous culture" is based on the Aboriginal peoples' geographical isolation, with little or no interaction with outside cultures before some contact with Makassan fishermen and Dutch explorers up to 500 years ago.

The Rasmussen study also found evidence that Aboriginal peoples carry some genes associated with the Denisovans (a species of human related to but distinct from Neanderthals) of Asia; the study suggests that there is an increase in allele sharing between the Denisovan and Aboriginal Australian genomes, compared to other Eurasians or Africans. Examining DNA from a finger bone excavated in Siberia, researchers concluded that the Denisovans migrated from Siberia to tropical parts of Asia and that they interbred with modern humans in Southeast Asia 44,000 years BP, before Australia separated from New Guinea approximately 11,700 years BP. They contributed DNA to Aboriginal Australians and to present-day New Guineans and an indigenous tribe in the Philippines known as Mamanwa. This study confirms Aboriginal Australians as one of the oldest living populations in the world. They are possibly the oldest outside Africa, and they may have the oldest continuous culture on the planet.

A 2016 study at the University of Cambridge suggests that it was about 50,000 years ago that these peoples reached Sahul (the supercontinent consisting of present-day Australia and its islands and New Guinea). The sea levels rose and isolated Australia about 10,000 years ago, but Aboriginal Australians and Papuans diverged from each other genetically earlier, about 37,000 years BP, possibly because the remaining land bridge was impassable. This isolation makes the Aboriginal people the world's oldest culture. The study also found evidence of an unknown hominin group, distantly related to Denisovans, with whom the Aboriginal and Papuan ancestors must have interbred, leaving a trace of about 4% in most Aboriginal Australians' genome. There is, however, increased genetic diversity among Aboriginal Australians based on geographical distribution.

Carlhoff et al. 2021 analysed a Holocene hunter-gatherer sample ("Leang Panninge") from South Sulawesi, which shares high amounts of genetic drift with Aboriginal Australians and Papuans. This suggests that a population split from the common ancestor of Aboriginal Australians and Papuans. The sample also shows genetic affinity with East Asians and the Andamanese people of South Asia. The authors note that this hunter-gatherer sample can be modelled with ~50% Papuan-related ancestry and either with ~50% East Asian or Andamanese Onge ancestry, highlighting the deep split between Leang Panninge and Aboriginal/Papuans.

Mallick et al. 2016 and Mark Lipson et al. 2017 study found the bifurcation of Eastern Eurasians and Western Eurasians dates to least 45,000 years ago, with indigenous Australians nested inside the Eastern Eurasian clade.

Two genetic studies by Larena et al. 2021 found that Philippines Negrito people split from the common ancestor of Aboriginal Australians and Papuans before the latter two diverged from each other, but after their common ancestor diverged from the ancestor of East Asian peoples.

Changes about 4,000 years ago
The dingo reached Australia about 4,000 years ago. Near that time, there were changes in language (with the Pama-Nyungan language family spreading over most of the mainland), and in stone tool technology. Smaller tools were used. Human contact has thus been inferred, and genetic data of two kinds have been proposed to support a gene flow from India to Australia: firstly, signs of South Asian components in Aboriginal Australian genomes, reported on the basis of genome-wide SNP data; and secondly, the existence of a Y chromosome (male) lineage, designated haplogroup C∗, with the most recent common ancestor about 5,000 years ago.

The first type of evidence comes from a 2013 study by the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology using large-scale genotyping data from a pool of Aboriginal Australians, New Guineans, island Southeast Asians, and Indians. It found that the New Guinea and Mamanwa (Philippines area) groups diverged from the Aboriginal about 36,000 years ago (there is supporting evidence that these populations are descended from migrants taking an early "southern route" out of Africa, before other groups in the area). Also the Indian and Australian populations mixed long before European contact, with this gene flow occurring during the Holocene (c. 4,200 years ago). The researchers had two theories for this: either some Indians had contact with people in Indonesia who eventually transferred those Indian genes to Aboriginal Australians, or a group of Indians migrated from India to Australia and intermingled with the locals directly.

However, a 2016 study in Current Biology by Anders Bergström et al. excluded the Y chromosome as providing evidence for recent gene flow from India into Australia. The study authors sequenced 13 Aboriginal Australian Y chromosomes using recent advances in gene sequencing technology. They investigated their divergence times from Y chromosomes in other continents, including comparing the haplogroup C chromosomes. They found a divergence time of about 54,100 years between the Sahul C chromosome and its closest relative C5, as well as about 54,300 years between haplogroups K*/M and their closest haplogroups R and Q. The deep divergence time of 50,000-plus years with the South Asian chromosome and "the fact that the Aboriginal Australian Cs share a more recent common ancestor with Papuan Cs" excludes any recent genetic contact.

The 2016 study's authors concluded that, although this does not disprove the presence of any Holocene gene flow or non-genetic influences from South Asia at that time, and the appearance of the dingo does provide strong evidence for external contacts, the evidence overall is consistent with a complete lack of gene flow, and points to indigenous origins for the technological and linguistic changes. They attributed the disparity between their results and previous findings to improvements in technology; none of the other studies had utilised complete Y chromosome sequencing, which has the highest precision. For example, use of a ten Y STRs method has been shown to massively underestimate divergence times. Gene flow across the island-dotted 150 km Torres Strait, is both geographically plausible and demonstrated by the data, although at this point it could not be determined from this study when within the last 10,000 years it may have occurred—newer analytical techniques have the potential to address such questions.

Bergstrom's 2018 doctoral thesis looking at the population of Sahul suggests that other than relatively recent admixture, the populations of the region appear to have been genetically independent from the rest of the world since their divergence about 50,000 years ago. He writes "There is no evidence for South Asian gene flow to Australia .... Despite Sahul being a single connected landmass until [8,000 years ago], different groups across Australia are nearly equally related to Papuans, and vice versa, and the two appear to have separated genetically already [about 30,000 years ago]".

Environmental adaptations

Aboriginal Australians possess inherited abilities to adapt to a wide range of environmental temperatures in various ways. A study in 1958 comparing cold adaptation in the desert-dwelling Pitjantjatjara people compared with a group of European people showed that the cooling adaptation of the Aboriginal group differed from that of the white people, and that they were able to sleep more soundly through a cold desert night. A 2014 Cambridge University study found that a beneficial mutation in two genes which regulate thyroxine, a hormone involved in regulating body metabolism, helps to regulate body temperature in response to fever. The effect of this is that the desert people are able to have a higher body temperature without accelerating the activity of the whole of the body, which can be especially detrimental in childhood diseases. This helps protect people to survive the side-effects of infection.

Location and demographics
Aboriginal people have lived for tens of thousands of years on the continent of Australia, through its various changes in landmass. The area within Australia's borders today includes the islands of Tasmania, K'gari (previously Fraser Island), Hinchinbrook Island, the Tiwi Islands, Kangaroo Island and Groote Eylandt. Indigenous people of the Torres Strait Islands, however, are not Aboriginal.

In the, people who self-identified on the census form as being of Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander origin totalled 812,728 out of a total of 25,422,788 Australians, equating to 3.2% of Australia's population and an increase of 163,557 people, or 25.2%, since the previous census in 2016. Reasons for the increase were broadly as follows:

 * Demographic factors – births, deaths and migration – accounted for 43.5% of the increase (71,086 people). In turn, 76.2% of that increase was attributed to people aged 0–19 years in 2021, broken down as 52.5% for 0–4 year olds (births since 2016) and 23.7% for 5–19 year olds.
 * Non-demographic factors, which are complex to quantify, include persons identifying as Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander in a particular census, and changes in census coverage and response – such as persons completing a census form in 2021 but not in 2016. These factors accounted for 56.5% of the increase in the Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander population (92,471 people). The increase was higher than observed between 2011–2016 (39.0%) and 2006–2011 (38.7%).

Languages
Most Aboriginal people speak English, with Aboriginal phrases and words being added to create Australian Aboriginal English (which also has a tangible influence of Aboriginal languages in the phonology and grammatical structure). Some Aboriginal people, especially those living in remote areas, are multi-lingual. Many of the original 250–400 Aboriginal languages (more than 250 languages and about 800 dialectal varieties on the continent) are endangered or extinct, although some efforts are being made at language revival for some. As of 2016, only 13 traditional Indigenous languages were still being acquired by children, and about another 100 spoken by older generations only.

Groups and sub-groups
Dispersing across the Australian continent over time, the ancient people expanded and differentiated into distinct groups, each with its own language and culture. More than 400 distinct Australian Aboriginal peoples have been identified, distinguished by names designating their ancestral languages, dialects, or distinctive speech patterns. According to noted anthropologist, archaeologist and sociologist Harry Lourandos, historically, these groups lived in three main cultural areas, the Northern, Southern and Central cultural areas. The Northern and Southern areas, having richer natural marine and woodland resources, were more densely populated than the Central area.

Geographically-based names
There are various other names from Australian Aboriginal languages commonly used to identify groups based on geography, known as demonyms, including:
 * Anangu in northern South Australia, and neighbouring parts of Western Australia and Northern Territory
 * Goorie (variant pronunciation and spelling of Koori) in South East Queensland and some parts of northern New South Wales
 * Koori (or Koorie) in New South Wales and Victoria (Aboriginal Victorians)
 * Murri in Central and Northern Queensland, sometimes referring to all Aboriginal Queenslanders
 * Nunga in southern South Australia
 * Noongar in southern Western Australia
 * Palawah (or Pallawah) in Tasmania
 * Tiwi on Tiwi Islands off Arnhem Land (NT)

A few examples of sub-groups
Other group names are based on the language group or specific dialect spoken. These also coincide with geographical regions of varying sizes. A few examples are:
 * Anindilyakwa on Groote Eylandt (off Arnhem Land), NT
 * Arrernte in central Australia
 * Bininj in Western Arnhem Land (NT)
 * Gunggari in south-west Queensland
 * Muruwari people in New South Wales
 * Luritja (Kukatja), an Anangu sub-group based on language
 * Ngunnawal in the Australian Capital Territory and surrounding areas of New South Wales
 * Pitjantjatjara, an Anangu sub-group based on language
 * Wangai in the Western Australian Goldfields
 * Warlpiri (Yapa) in western central Northern Territory
 * Yamatji in central Western Australia
 * Yolngu in eastern Arnhem Land (NT)

Difficulties defining groups
However, these lists are neither exhaustive nor definitive, and there are overlaps. Different approaches have been taken by non-Aboriginal scholars in trying to understand and define Aboriginal culture and societies, some focusing on the micro-level (tribe, clan, etc.), and others on shared languages and cultural practices spread over large regions defined by ecological factors. Anthropologists have encountered many difficulties in trying to define what constitutes an Aboriginal people/community/group/tribe, let alone naming them. Knowledge of pre-colonial Aboriginal cultures and societal groupings is still largely dependent on the observers' interpretations, which were filtered through colonial ways of viewing societies.

Some Aboriginal peoples identify as one of several saltwater, freshwater, rainforest or desert peoples.

Aboriginal identity
The term Aboriginal Australians includes many distinct peoples who have developed across Australia for over 50,000 years. These peoples have a broadly shared, though complex, genetic history, but it is only in the last two hundred years that they have been defined and started to self-identify as a single group, socio-politically. While some preferred the term Aborigine to Aboriginal in the past, as the latter was seen to have more directly discriminatory legal origins, use of the term Aborigine has declined in recent decades, as many consider the term an offensive and racist hangover from Australia's colonial era.

The definition of the term Aboriginal has changed over time and place, with the importance of family lineage, self-identification and community acceptance all being of varying importance.

The term Indigenous Australians refers to Aboriginal Australians and Torres Strait Islander peoples, and the term is conventionally only used when both groups are included in the topic being addressed, or by self-identification by a person as Indigenous. (Torres Strait Islanders are ethnically and culturally distinct, despite extensive cultural exchange with some of the Aboriginal groups, and the Torres Strait Islands are mostly part of Queensland but have a separate governmental status.) Some Aboriginal people object to being labelled Indigenous, as an artificial and denialist term.

Culture and beliefs
Australian Indigenous people have beliefs unique to each mob (tribe) and have a strong connection to the land. Contemporary Indigenous Australian beliefs are a complex mixture, varying by region and individual across the continent. They are shaped by traditional beliefs, the disruption of colonisation, religions brought to the continent by Europeans, and contemporary issues. Traditional cultural beliefs are passed down and shared by dancing, stories, songlines and art—especially Papunya Tula (dot painting)—collectively telling the story of creation known as The Dreamtime. Additionally, traditional healers were also custodians of important Dreaming stories as well as their medical roles (for example the Ngangkari in the Western desert). Some core structures and themes are shared across the continent with details and additional elements varying between language and cultural groups. For example, in The Dreamtime of most regions, a spirit creates the earth then tells the humans to treat the animals and the earth in a way which is respectful to land. In Northern Territory this is commonly said to be a huge snake or snakes that weaved its way through the earth and sky making the mountains and oceans. But in other places the spirits who created the world are known as wandjina rain and water spirits. Major ancestral spirits include the Rainbow Serpent, Baiame, Dirawong and Bunjil. Similarly, the Arrernte people of central Australia believed that humanity originated from great superhuman ancestors who brought the sun, wind and rain as a result of breaking through the surface of the Earth when waking from their slumber.

Health and economic deprivations
Taken as a whole, Aboriginal Australians, along with Torres Strait Islander people, have a number of health and economic deprivations in comparison with the wider Australian community.

Due to the aforementioned disadvantage, Aboriginal Australian communities experience a higher rate of suicide, as compared to non-indigenous communities. These issues stem from a variety of different causes unique to indigenous communities, such as historical trauma, socioeconomic disadvantage, and decreased access to education and health care. Also, this problem largely affects indigenous youth, as many indigenous youth may feel disconnected from their culture.

To combat the increased suicide rate, many researchers have suggested that the inclusion of more cultural aspects into suicide prevention programs would help to combat mental health issues within the community. Past studies have found that many indigenous leaders and community members, do in fact, want more culturally-aware health care programs. Similarly, culturally-relative programs targeting indigenous youth have actively challenged suicide ideation among younger indigenous populations, with many social and emotional wellbeing programs using cultural information to provide coping mechanisms and improving mental health.

Viability of remote communities
The outstation movement of the 1970s and 1980s, when Aboriginal people moved to tiny remote settlements on traditional land, brought health benefits, but funding them proved expensive, training and employment opportunities were not provided in many cases, and support from governments dwindled in the 2000s, particularly in the era of the Howard government.

Indigenous communities in remote Australia are often small, isolated towns with basic facilities, on traditionally owned land. These communities have between 20 and 300 inhabitants and are often closed to outsiders for cultural reasons. The long-term viability and resilience of Aboriginal communities in desert areas has been discussed by scholars and policy-makers. A 2007 report by the CSIRO stressed the importance of taking a demand-driven approach to services in desert settlements, and concluded that "if top-down solutions continue to be imposed without appreciating the fundamental drivers of settlement in desert regions, then those solutions will continue to be partial, and ineffective in the long term".

title: Aboriginal Australians


text:
FSR

FSR may refer to:

Broadcasting

 * Fox Sports Radio, an American radio network
 * Fox Sports Racing, a U.S. motorsports TV channel
 * Yle FSR, a Finnish radio network

Entertainment

 * Flower, Sun, and Rain, a video game from Grasshopper Manufacture
 * Folk Soul Revival, an American country music band
 * Forces of Satan Records, a defunct Norwegian record label
 * Fresh Sound, a Spanish record label
 * Fresh Sounds Records, an defunct American record label
 * Full Surface Records, an American record label

Politics

 * Financial Services Roundtable, an American lobby group
 * Former Soviet republics
 * Friends of Soviet Russia, an American friendship organization

Science and technology

 * Fractional synthetic rate
 * Finite-state recognizer
 * Fisheye State Routing
 * Flood Studies Report, a hydrological text
 * Force-sensing resistor
 * Free spectral range
 * FidelityFX Super Resolution, part of AMD's FidelityFX toolset

Scouting

 * Federation of Scouts of Russia
 * Forestburg Scout Reservation, a Boy Scout Camp in New York, United States

Other uses

 * First ScotRail, a defunct Scottish rail company
 * First Strike Ration of the United States Army
 * Five-second rule (basketball)
 * Fleet Street Reports: Cases on Intellectual Property Law
 * Floor space ratio
 * Forest Service Road
 * Fort Smith Railroad, an American rail company
 * Full-service restaurant

title: FSR


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/CambridgeBayWeather

 * The following discussion is preserved as an archive of a successful request for adminship. Please do not modify it.

CambridgeBayWeather
Final (37/0/0) ended 14:09 23 October 2005 (UTC)'''

– I would like to nominate CambridgeBayWeather for adminship simply because I see him/ her doing so much good work that I feel Wikipedia would be a much better place if he/ she had the admin tools. Vital stats are: 4273 edits, first edit 11-June-05. If there was ever a case for a "speedy promote" then this is it! Martin 14:09, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:

Thank you very much. I would be honoured to be considered as an administrator. CambridgeBayWeather 05:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Support
 * 1) Definately.  Martin  11:10, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) Support MONGO 11:36, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) Support Excellent contribs: welcoming, wikifying, re-directing and creating. Wish I could remember edit summaries as regularly. Marskell 11:37, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 4) Support. A great editor! Worth interrupting my Wikibreak to support this candidate. Owen×  ☎  12:35, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 5) Support I constantly see this name attached to good work. I am getting sick of it :) Qaz ( talk ) 13:10, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 6) Support Have seen lots of good contribs from him! --JoanneB 14:02, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 7) Support goes without saying. For all of the above reasons and probably some below as well but wiki is not a crystal ball.   Dl yo ns 493   Ta lk  14:26, 16 October 2005 (UTC).  This was me - wiki seems to log me out randomly.     Dl yo ns 493   Ta lk   08:52, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * IP vote =Nichalp «Talk»=  06:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) S'port - you can't get too many Canadians in Wikipedia (excellent contributor) --Doc (?) 14:36, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) You amuse us, CambridgeBayWeather! The only thing funnier... is your imminent adminship! — J I P  | Talk 14:56, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) Support Privat  e   Butcher  15:25, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 4) Support seems to vote on every RFA. freestylefrappe 15:56, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 5) Support Of Course --JAranda'' | watz sup 16:57, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 6) Support Was thinking of nominating him myself. -Greg Asche (talk) 18:15, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 7) Support. Christopher Parham (talk) 20:29, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 8) Support. Yes please! Shauri  [[Image:Heart.gif|11px]]  smile!  21:18, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 9) Strong support -- Francs2000 [[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg|25px| ]] 22:29, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 10) Merovingian (t) (c) ( e ) 23:31, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 11) [Support I've seen good work etc etc Grutness...  wha?  00:20, 17 October 2005 (UTC) (It's spring! 20 lovely degrees celsius!)
 * 12) I haven't had much opportunity to interact, but I do remember a survey on which Mr. Weather was a respondent, and he was very forthright in admitting that his edit count was insufficient to participate. Despite being unable to vote, he showed thoughtfulness in the comments he made.   Ingoolemo   talk 02:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 13) Support. -Splash talk 03:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 14) Support. I see on my watchlist that he does very good work on articles related to Canada's North. Luigizanasi 03:09, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 15) Support. Seen'em, like'em. - RoyBoy 800 04:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 16) Support, as has been said above, I see this name reverting vandalism all the time.-gadfium 08:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 17) Support. Seen him during RC-patrol. Deserves his "Exceptional Newcomer" award. jni 09:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 18) Support.   [ +t, +c, +m,  +e  ] 10:58, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 19) Support The usual ITHWO (I Thought He Was One).  Ban e  s  12:49, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 20) Andre ( talk ) 16:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 21) Support Stolen off JIP, I admit it Fir  e  Fo  x  17:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 22) -- (drini's page| ☎ ) 19:23, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 23) Florida Bay Weather Support. «» Who ? ¿ ? meta  22:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 24) Support. Fine and sensible contributor. Sjakkalle  (Check!)  07:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 25) Whoa... First time for me using RFA cliche #1, but... I thought this guy was already an admin! Support. Denelson83 07:22, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 26) Support. Have noticed him around a lot recently. Will make a great admin. the wub  "?!"  16:15, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 27) Support - He often appears on my watchlist doing Goog Things. The JPS 17:02, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 28) support he is a good contributor Yuckfoo 04:14, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 29) Support - Only suprises me the 3680 article edits but only 118 article talk pages... but in the end, who cares. :) --Sebastian Kessel Talk 20:02, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 30) Speedy support, per nom. Tito xd (?!?) 21:35, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 31) Support Positive contributions to WP. Good egg. Hamster Sandwich 19:27, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 32) Support should make good admin. Alf melmac 08:30, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 33) Support. —Wayward Talk 11:40, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 34) Support V. Molotov (talk) [[Image:Flag of California.svg|25px]]  19:33, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 35) Support - I was under the illusion that I had already voted support. Never mind. Better late than never... --Cel e stianpower háblame 21:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Oppose
 * 1) --Boothy443 | comhrá 21:11, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Pikachu2.gif|35px]]. Ëvilphoenix Burn! 20:14, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Neutral

Comments
 * Due to the fact that I do some of my editing at work and that for some reason I get logged out of Wikipedia I would ask that potential voters please take a look at User talk:216.126.246.78 and User talk:216.126.246.118. The user pages for these two redirect to User:CambridgeBayWeather. The edits made from these two were not great but I feel that it's important that everyone know from what accounts I am editing and not using a sockpuppet. CambridgeBayWeather 05:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think you should probably unredirect them. It's just a matter of time before a vandal acquires the address and a stressed-out RC patroller leaves the warning messages on your talk page! -Splash talk 03:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:
 * 1. What sysop chores, if any, would you anticipate helping with? (Please read the page about administrators and the administrators' reading list.)
 * A. I would continue on with speedy deletes but more carefully. In other words, as a non-administrator it's very easy to tag articles for speedy knowing that someone else will check it over. As an administrator I would be the one checking to see if it could be changed to a redirect or brought up to a higher standard (I've already got better at doing both of these) rather than a speedy delete. I would like to try and help both with closing AfD and copyvios. Reverting of vandalism and blocking vandals where necessary. I would/do have a far bit of time for this sort of work as I have access both at home and during work. If I found that I was unsure of something then I would seek the advice of a more senior administrator.

 * 2. Of your articles or contributions to Wikipedia, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
 * A. As is obvious from my edits I am very involved in creating Canadian airports. This is being done because it's required rather than because I enjoy it. I do enjoy doing RC patrol to see what's happening. However, the thing I enjoy most is when doing RC patrol I come across articles like Harold Wagstaff and Henry Neville. The first one I found tagged as a speedy consisting of "Harold Wagstaff is a member of the Hall of Fame". A quick search on Google indicated that he was real and had some claim to notability. I made a quick save by removing the tag, giving a bit of context and saving with a edit summary indicating that I would work on the article. After a while I was able to produce a stub on the man that is now ready for editing by someone with more knowledge of Rugby League. I did this at work and due to being logged out of Wikipedia after 5-10 minutes it appears in the edit summary as User talk:216.126.246.78. The Henry Neville was a similar situation but was already a stub. I am not saying that I enjoy doing this due to the fact that I am producing great articles with wonderful prose, which I am not, but it gives me the opportunity to learn something new and the ability to provide information for others to build on.

 * 3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
 * A. So far very little. I suspect that because that this is due to the fact that the articles that are controversial are so far beyond my knowledge that I any edits I did to them (other than reverting obvious vandalism) would probably be considered vandalism anyway. There have only been a couple of people that I have had minor run in with. See User talk:70.81.117.175 who had made edits to Extremes on Earth for which I could not find a source. The nature of his edits, changing the -63 at Snag coldest in North America to -70 at Resolute and that the coldest inhabited place is Resolute at -22.8 (average) are related to my work and I felt they were incorrect. I asked for sources and he quoted the Scholastic Book of World Records for the average and two people on television for the -70. I know that depending on the way the data is handled can produce different results so I did not change that. However, I did revert the -70 back to the standard and verifiable -63. I also tried to explain that TV is not a valid source for information. It stayed at -63 until 02 October when he changed it back to -70 and I then reverted it. It happened again the next day. Since then the temperature has stood and if it happens again I would seek the assistance of someone else to see if I was being unreasonable. The only other person that I had a run in with was here: User talk:Lightbringer. Please see the section entitled "List of proposed Jack the Ripper suspects". It was not being called a Mason or a provider of Masonic propaganda (I'm not a Mason) but the fact that I would cut and paste copyright material. He has not answered my request and I doubt that I will have anything more to do with this user. In truth I come to Wikipedia to get away from the stress provided to me by my supervisor and I very much doubt that anything here could provide me with that much stress. Anyway, if I was being stressed then I would just stop for a few days rather than react to it.

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page. No further edits should be made to this page.


text: File:Biffyclyro blackenedsky.jpg

title: File:Biffyclyro blackenedsky.jpg


text:
Jane Scarpantoni

Jane Scarpantoni (born 1960) is an American classically trained cello player, who has played on a number of alternative rock albums.

She was a member of Hoboken, New Jersey's Tiny Lights in the mid-1980s, then went on to play with other musicians especially those associated with the Hoboken underground rock scene of the 1980s and early 1990s, including Silverchair, Bruce Springsteen, Sheryl Crow, Patti Smith, Richard Barone, R.E.M., Indigo Girls, 10,000 Maniacs, Throwing Muses, Kristin Hersh, Lou Reed, Chris Cacavas, Bob Mould, John Lurie's Lounge Lizards, Boo Trundle, Train and many others.

Discography

 * 10,000 Maniacs – MTV Unplugged
 * Amstrong – Lack of You
 * Richard Barone – Cool Blue Halo
 * Richard Barone – Primal Dream
 * Richard Barone – Clouds Over Eden
 * Richard Barone – Between Heaven and Cello
 * Richard Barone – Cool Blue Halo 25th Anniversary Concert
 * Beastie Boys – Hello Nasty
 * Blonde Redhead – Misery Is a Butterfly
 * Crash Test Dummies – I Don't Care That You Don't Mind
 * Crash Test Dummies – Jingle All the Way
 * Crash Test Dummies – Songs of the Unforgiven
 * Sheryl Crow – Sheryl Crow[
 * Sheryl Crow – C'mon, C'mon
 * Delerium – Chimera
 * Die Monster Die – Withdrawal Method
 * Mike Doughty – Haughty Melodic
 * Ben Folds Five – The Unauthorized Biography of Reinhold Messner
 * Fuel – Sunburn
 * The Grapes of Wrath – Now and Again
 * Adam Green – Friends of Mine
 * John S. Hall – The Body Has a Head
 * Helmet – Aftertaste
 * Peter Holsapple & Chris Stamey-Mavericks
 * Kristin Hersh – Hips and Makers
 * Ida – Lovers Prayers
 * Indigo Girls – Swamp Ophelia
 * Indigo Girls – 1200 Curfews
 * Freedy Johnston – This Perfect World
 * Freedy Johnston – Never Home
 * King Missile III – Failure
 * King Missile – Royal Lunch
 * Ben Kweller – Sha Sha
 * Ray LaMontagne – Till the Sun Turns Black
 * Mauro – Songs from a Bad Hat
 * Sarah McLachlan – Fumbling Towards Ecstasy
 * Sarah McLachlan – Rarities, B-Sides and Other Stuff
 * Bob Mould – Workbook
 * R.E.M. – Green
 * The Veils – Nux Vomica
 * Lou Reed – Ecstasy (2000)
 * Lou Reed – The Raven (2003)
 * Lou Reed - Animal Serenade (2004)
 * Lou Reed – Spanish Fly – Live in Spain (2005)
 * Lou Reed – Sweet Jane – Live in Los Angeles, 2003
 * Lou Reed - Berlin: Live at St. Ann's Warehouse (2007)
 * Luthea Salom – Out Of Without
 * Soul Asylum– Let Your Dim Light Shine
 * Silverchair – Freak Show
 * Silverchair – Neon Ballroom
 * Bruce Springsteen – The Rising
 * Throwing Muses – University
 * Ween – White Pepper
 * Suzanne Vega – Nine Objects of Desire
 * Swans – The Seer
 * The Wayfarers - World's Fare (Endless Days) (Tana)
 * Samuel Claiborne – "Hurt" on Love, Lust, and Genocide (2015)

title: Jane Scarpantoni


text:
Timberlane Regional High School

Timberlane Regional High School is located in Plaistow, New Hampshire, and serves as a regional high school for the towns of Atkinson, Danville, Plaistow, and Sandown, New Hampshire. The school was built in 1966 and is a part of the Timberlane Regional School District. Timberlane Regional High School is a co-educational school for grades 9-12. The school has won the 1996, 1997 and 2014 Excellence In Education Award. As of 2005, the school has approximately 1,400 students on roll. The school mascot is the owl. The school is regionally accredited for its award-winning wrestling team, which holds 28 NH State Wrestling Champions titles, as of 2020.

History
Timberlane was built in the vicinity of Plaistow's town dump in 1966 as a regional high school for the four towns it still serves today. The name 'Timberlane' came from the forestry industry that played a major role in the economic development of New Hampshire. Before the school was built, students attended several different high schools in the area, including Haverhill High School in nearby Haverhill, Massachusetts.

During the 1970s the school experienced a strike of nearly all its faculty, and overcrowding which necessitated double sessions (one half of the students would take classes in the morning, with the other half taking classes in the afternoon). This overcrowding was rectified in 1975 by the opening of the Timberlane Regional Middle School as a neighbor to the school.

By the early 1980s, the school needed expansion. An addition was completed in 1987, which included a second gymnasium and increased space for the athletic program. The student numbers continued to increase as families moved from Boston, Massachusetts, further out to the suburbs, and by the mid-1990s the school again became overcrowded. In the fall of 1998 several modular classrooms were installed on the property as a temporary solution, and the community demanded an extensive remodelling of the building and the six other schools in the Timberlane Regional School District.

In 1999, a $40 million renovation program was carried out district-wide, which included a complete remodeling and expansion of the high school as well as the construction of the $7 million Timberlane Regional Performing Arts Center. Several new classrooms were added, the sizes of the cafeteria and gymnasium were increased, and a ventilation system was installed. During the summer of 2007, a new roof was brought to the school after many years of leaks.

Academics
In addition to its traditional academic offerings, Timberlane allows students to take vocational classes at Salem High School and Pinkerton Academy.

Advanced Placement offerings
Timberlane offers the following AP courses:

 * AP Calculus (AB)
 * AP Statistics
 * AP Biology
 * AP Physics B
 * AP Chemistry
 * AP U.S. History
 * AP World History
 * AP English Literature and Composition
 * AP United States Government and Politics
 * AP Computer Science
 * AP European History
 * AP Human Geography
 * AP Environmental Science
 * AP Art
 * AP English Language and Composition
 * Practicing Teaching course offered through Southern New Hampshire University

Notable alumni

 * Kirk Carlsen (2005), professional cyclist
 * Lily Hevesh (2016), domino artist and YouTuber

Controversies
In 2009, saw joe student Joshua Tubbs wrote an essay entitled “Sen10rs”, where he rated and reviewed each student of the senior class. This caused a public uproar and was reported and followed by many media outlets.

In 2018, teacher Daniel Joyce was arrested on charges of assaulting a student.

On December 15, 2021, high school math teacher David Russell turned himself into authorities after a warrant was issued for his arrest for simple and sexual assault of a juvenile high school student. Russell was previously placed on administrative leave in November 2021 pending the outcome of the districts investigation.

In June 2023, a non-student juvenile entered the building intoxicated after having taken the school bus from a different home. He stayed in the bathroom challenging people to fight, until someone agreed to. After being confronted by staff, the individual fled the school causing a shelter-in-place at the high school and next door middle school. He was later taken into custody by police; no injuries or damage occurred.

title: Timberlane Regional High School


text: User talk:83.71.104.184

title: User talk:83.71.104.184


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Willmcw and SlimVirgin

Case Opened on 14:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

This case has been merged with Requests for arbitration/Rangerdude. The /Evidence, /Workshop and /Proposed decision pages linked from here redirect to that case.

Please do not edit this page directly unless you wish to become a participant in this request. (All participants are subject to Arbitration Committee decisions, and the ArbCom will consider each participant's role in the dispute.) Comments are very welcome on the Talk page, and will be read, in full. Evidence, no matter who can provide it, is very welcome at /Evidence. Evidence is more useful than comments.

Arbitrators will be working on evidence and suggesting proposed decisions at /Workshop and voting on proposed decisions at /Proposed decision.

Request

 * complaining of harassment by

Nominal defendants

The full request with responses and comments is very long and has been placed on the Talk page.

Statement by party 1
Please limit your statement to 500 words

Statement by party 2
Please limit your statement to 500 words

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (4/0/0/0)

 * Just noting that I'm waiting for a response before coming to a decision. James F. (talk) 11:14, 22 August 2005 (UTC) Accept. James F. (talk) 22:23, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept Fred Bauder 14:45, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept ➥the Epopt 03:34, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Accept Mindspillage (spill yours?) 15:45, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Temporary injunction (none)
=Final decision (none yet) = All numbering based on /Proposed decision (vote counts and comments are there as well)

Remedies
Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.


text:
GAA Interprovincial Championship

The GAA Interprovincial Championship (An Corn Idir-Chúigeach) or Railway Cup (Corn an Iarnróid) is the name of two annual Gaelic football and hurling competitions held between the provinces of Ireland. The Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Ulster GAA teams are composed of the best players from the counties in each province. The games are organised by the Gaelic Athletic Association.

The Railway Cup was a revival of the Railway Shield which ran from 1905 to 1907 (football) and from 1905 to 1908 (hurling). The first Railway Cup competitions (the name is due to the donation of the trophy by Irish Rail) were held in 1927, with Munster winning the first football title and Leinster winning the first hurling title. Presently, Ulster hold the record for the most football Railway Cup wins with 30, while Munster has won the most hurling titles with 43. The longest hurling streak was Munster's six-in-a-row from 1948 to 1953, while Ulster won a football five-in-a-row from 1991 to 1995.

The Railway Cup has gone into severe decline in recent years. Some blame the GAA for this decline due to the low level of promotion given and the lack of a fixed date to be played each year. The finals, held on Saint Patrick's Day, attracted huge crowds in the 1950s and 1960s, however, by the 1990s attendances at the once prestigious competition had reduced to only a few hundred. The All-Ireland Club Finals have superseded them in popularity and have taken over the Saint Patrick's Day fixture in Croke Park.

Covid-19 has cut down on sports but in 2020 and 2021 no plans for a possible return of it.

Hurling
The GAA Interprovincial Hurling Championship (known for sponsorship reasons as the M Donnelly Interpro and formerly referred to as the Railway Cup) was an annual inter-provincial hurling competition organised by the Gaelic Athletic Association and traditionally contested by the four historic provinces of Ireland, deciding the competition winners through a knockout format. Starting in 1927, it was contested until its abolition in 2017.

Connacht, Leinster and Munster were the first participating provinces, before being joined by Ulster in 1944 and the Combined Universities in 1972. The final, traditionally held at Croke Park on St. Patrick's Day, was the culmination of a series of knock-out games, with the winning team receiving the Railway Cup. At its peak it was one of the most prestigious competitions in Gaelic games, with players regarding it as a great honour to be included on their provincial team. Crowds of up to 50,000 regularly attended the final, however, interest waned since its heyday with only 562 attending the last final in 2016.

The title was won by three different teams, all of whom won the title more than once. The all-time record-holders are Munster, who won the championship on 47 occasions.

History
After the success of the inter-county All-Ireland Championship, which had been held since 1887, the Gaelic Athletic Association launched an inter-provincial competition in 1905. Sponsored by the Great Southern and Western Railway, the Railway Shield ran until 1908 when the competition ended after Leinster retained the title for a second successive year.

After a lapse of nearly 20 years, the idea of an inter-provincial tournament was resurrected. The Railway Cup, once again sponsored by the Great Southern Railways, was first held in 1927, with Ulster being the only province not to field a team. The very first match took place at Portlaoise on 21 November 1926, with Leinster beating Connacht by 7-06 to 3-05. Leinster went on to win the inaugural title after a 1-11 to 2-06 win over Munster in the final. The holding of the final at Croke Park on St. Patrick's Day (17 March) set a precedent that linked the competition to that date for many years to follow.

The 1944 Railway Cup was the first occasion when all four provinces took part, with Ulster fielding a team for the first time. They reached the 1945 final, after beating Leinster in the semi-final, but lost out to Munster. In late 1971 an application from the Universities' Council to enter a Combined Universities team was discussed by the Central Council of the Association. The proposal was readily accepted and the Combined Universities team was permitted to participate in the 1972 Railway Cup.

Sponsorship
Iarnród Éireann became the first title sponsor of the championship, serving in that capacity from 1991 until 1993. After a sponsor-less decade, businessman Martin Donnelly offered financial support in terms of sponsorship in 2002. He withdrew his sponsorship of the competition in 2014.

Early rounds
Fixtures in the early rounds of the Railway Cup were usually played at a neutral venue that was deemed halfway between the participating teams. On occasions, Connacht and Ulster received home advantage, hosting semi-finals at Pearse Stadium, Duggan Park, Parkmore Sportsfield, Corrigan Park and Casement Park. The midlands regularly provided venues for Leinster-Connacht and Munster-Connacht matches, with O'Moore Park, O'Connor Park, St. Brendan's Park, St. Cronan's Park and MacDonagh Park being used.

Final
The final was played at Croke Park in Dublin every year from 1927 until 1977. A decline in popularity, coupled with the All-Ireland Club Championship taking the St. Patrick's Day slot at Croke Park, led to the Railway Cup final being moved around the country for the following 25 years. Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Semple Stadium, Cusack Park, Breffni Park, Nowlan Park and a number of smaller grounds all hosted the final at various stages

In 2003, the final was held in the Giulio Onesti Sports Complex in Rome. The success of that overseas trip led GAA chiefs to look into the possibility of making the staging of the final in Europe a regular date in the calendar. The final never returned to Europe, however, the 2005 final took place at the Irish Cultural Centre in Boston, while the 2009 final was held at Ghantoot Racing and Polo Club in Abu Dhabi.

The final returned to Croke Park for one final time in 2014, while Semple Stadium hosted the very last Railway Cup final in 2016.

Managers
Managers in the Railway Cup were involved in the day-to-day running of the team, including the training, team selection, and sourcing of players. The manager was usually assisted by a team of two or three selectors and a backroom team consisting of various coaches.

Teams

 * Most wins: 47:
 * Munster (1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1934, 1935, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1976, 1978, 1981, 1984, 1985, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2013, 2016)
 * Most consecutive wins: 6:
 * Munster (1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953)
 * Most appearances in a final: 74:
 * Munster (1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932, 1933, 1934, 1935, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2013, 2016)
 * Most appearances in a final without ever winning: 4:
 * Ulster (1945, 1992, 1993, 1995)
 * Most appearances in a final without losing (streak): 6
 * Munster (1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953)
 * Most consecutive defeats: 5:
 * Munster (1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1975)
 * Most defeats: 37
 * Leinster (1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1934, 1935, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1940, 1942, 1943, 1948, 1950, 1951, 1953, 1957, 1958, 1960, 1961, 1963, 1966, 1968, 1970, 1976, 1978, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1987, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2005, 2016)

Individual

 * Most wins by a player: 18, Christy Ring (Munster) (1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1963)

By decade
The most successful team of each decade, judged by number of Railway Cup titles, is as follows:

 * 1920s: 2 for Munster (1928–29)
 * 1930s: 7 for Munster (1930-31-34-35-37-38-39)
 * 1940s: 8 for Munster (1940-42-43-44-45-46-48-49)
 * 1950s: 8 for Munster (1950-51-52-53-55-57-58-59)
 * 1960s: 6 for Munster (1960-61-63-66-68-69)
 * 1970s: 7 for Leinster (1971-72-73-74-75-77-79)
 * 1980s: 6 for Connacht (1980-82-83-86-87-89)
 * 1990s: 4 for Munster (1992-95-96-97)
 * 2000s: 5 for Leinster (2002-03-06-08-09)
 * 2010s: 2 each for Leinster (2012–14) and Munster (2013–16)

Gaps
Longest gaps between successive Railway Cup titles:
 * 33 years: Connacht (1947–1980)
 * 13 years: Leinster (1941–1954)
 * 9 years: Leinster (1979–1988)

Managers
Managers in the Railway Cup were involved in the day-to-day running of the team, including the training, team selection, and sourcing of players. The manager was usually assisted by a team of two or three selectors and a backroom team consisting of various coaches.

Teams

 * Most wins: 32:
 * Ulster (1942, 1943, 1947, 1950, 1956, 1960, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1970, 1971, 1979, 1980, 1983, 1984, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2009, 2012, 2013, 2016)
 * Most consecutive wins: 5:
 * Ulster (1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995)

Individual

 * Most wins by a player: 8, Seán O'Neill (Ulster) 1960, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1970, 1971

By decade
The most successful team of each decade, judged by number of Railway Cup titles, is as follows:

 * 1920s: 2 for Leinster (1928–29)
 * 1930s: 5 for Leinster ( 1930-32-33-35-39)
 * 1940s: 4 for Munster (1941-46-48-49)
 * 1950s: 5 for Leinster (1952-53-54-55-59)
 * 1960s: 6 for Ulster (1960-63-64-65-66-68)
 * 1970s: 5 for Munster (1972-75-76-77-78)
 * 1980s: 4 each for Ulster (1980-83-84-89) and Leinster (1985-86-87-88)
 * 1990s: 6 for Ulster (1991-92-93-94-95-98)
 * 2000s: 5 for Ulster (2000-03-04-07-09)
 * 2010s: 3 for Ulster (2012-13-16)

Gaps
Longest gaps between successive Railway Cup titles:
 * 45 years: Connacht (1969–2014)
 * 23 years: Munster (1949–1972)
 * 17 years: Munster (1982–1999)
 * 13 years: Connacht (1938–1951)
 * 12 years: Leinster (1962–1974)

History
Up to and including 1986, the Inter-pros were played in the Spring, with the semi-finals usually in February and the finals on Saint Patrick's Day. From 1987 to 1989 then were given an Autumn slot, moving back to the Spring in 1991 (there was no competition in 1990). 1993 saw the competition played again in the Autumn, but all others from 1991 until 2000 were played in the early part of the year, with the semi-finals even being played in January in 1997, 1998 and 2000. However the rescheduling of the commencement of the National Football and National Hurling Leagues to the start of the calendar year, has seen the Railway Cup moved to the latter part of the year from 2001 onwards. In an effort to combat the declining popularity of the competition, some including Ulster manager Joe Kernan have suggested playing the finals as double-headers with the respective All-Ireland Club Football and All-Ireland Club Hurling Championship finals in the early part of the year in Croke Park and Semple Stadium respectively. The 2009 hurling semi-finals were held in February, and the final took place in March in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates. Abu Dhabi joined a list of foreign cities including Boston, Paris and Rome to have hosted finals. Plans to stage the 2014 Inter-Provincial finals in Texas fell through.

Attendances at the matches have fallen. However players seem to love playing in the competition. Former Armagh player Martin McQuillan said it gave players not accustomed to success at county level, a chance to taste victory.

On 23 February 2014, Connacht defeated Ulster by 2-19 to 1-7 at Tuam Stadium to win the Inter-provincial football championship for the first time since 1969.

Combined Universities
In 1971 the Universities Council of the GAA (Comhairle na nOllscoil) applied to the Central Council of the GAA for permission to compete in the Railway Cup football and hurling series. The request had been studied by the Executive of the Central Council. The Universities Council estimated that there were about 70 inter-county players in the Sigerson and Fitzgibbon competitions studying at U.C.D, U.C.G., U.C.C., Q.U.B., T.C.D., U.U. Coleraine and St Patrick's Maynooth. At the Central Council meeting held on 23 October 1971, the proposal of Comhairle na nOllscoil was approved unanimously. While the idea was looked upon positively by some elements of the Press as a way of injecting life back into this inter-provincial tournament, other feared that the public would tire of this innovation as they had in the case of the Combined Universities v (Rest of) Ireland tests long before they lingered to an unlamented death and doubted whether the Combined Universities would revive the Railway Cup. Pat McDonnell of UCC and Cork full-back, Texaco Hurler of the Year in 1969, had the honour of captaining the first Combined Universities team to compete in the Railway Cup against Ulster at Croke Park. The University hurlers defeated Ulster in the preliminary round, but were narrowly beaten by Leinster in the semi-final, while the University footballers did not survive the preliminary round of the football Railway Cup.

In 1973 the Combined Universities footballers beat Connacht to win the Railway Cup in a final replay at Athlone. This is the only occasion in the history of the Railway Cup that it was not won by a provincial team. The hurlers again beat Ulster but were again beaten by Leinster in the semi-final. In 1974 both the University hurlers and footballers reached the semi-finals, losing to Munster and Leinster, respectively.

The Railway Cup experiment was meeting criticism from within the Universities sector because it was interfering with University League fixtures. In May 1974 Comhairle na nOllscoil decided to opt out of the Railway Cup competition.

Likely demise
The fixtures for the 2017 competition were indefinitely postponed after Connacht pulled out, citing fixture demands on players and lack of spectator interest. The Irish Times reported that the other three provinces had "indicated that they believe the end has come for the 90-year-old competition" and no dates were scheduled for the competition in 2018 and beyond.

title: GAA Interprovincial Championship


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User talk:Fealcap

Welcome to wikipedia - possibly unfree image
Hello there - welcome to wikipedia!

Image:Bueffel 10 gr.jpg has been listed as a possibly unfree image
I've actually looked at added images from Rheinmetall's website before - but if you read http://www.rheinmetall-detec.de/index.php?lang=3&impressum=1, it makes it clear that reproduction on websites is not allowed. Megapixie 14:16, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Fealcap


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Talk:Topic map

Untitled
Finally, I moved the "Topic map" site to "Topic Maps". Please do not change that. "Topic Maps" is not a plural, but the name of the technology. --Lheuer 15:55, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The following was originally on Topicmaps and should probably be merged with this article:

Topicmaps is an ISO standard for knowledge representation in xml. It is well suited as an infrastructure for the Semantic_Web, and has many similarities to Resource_Description_Framework. One of topicmaps distinct features is it's convention of using url as id's for subjects called public subject identifiers or psi. Since topicmaps is a general data model for knowledge, almost any kind of datasource can be converted to a topicmap. With the aid of public subject identifiers it is also possible merge lot's of different topicmaps so they appear to be one topicmap. At the time being several new standards are under development for querying, manipulating and defining constraints for topicmaps.

Eleusis 14:16, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

The article says: "Dubbed "the GPS of the information universe", topic maps are also destined to provide powerful new ways of navigating large and interconnected corpora." I'm curious as to Wikipedia policies: This sentence is speculation; should an encyclopedia contain forward-looking statements like this? Dirk Riehle 13:02, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No, it shouldn't. I've taken it out. -R. S. Shaw 01:33, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

The standard is explicit that the technology is called "Topic Maps", and that "topic map" means an actual instance of the model (a real topic map), and likewise that "topic maps" refers to multiple "topic map"s. So the title of the article, as well as the language throughout, should change. Lars Marius Garshol, 2006-03-09

Status?
Anybody familiar with the current status of this thing? After poking around a bit, it seems to me there was a flurry of activity on it in 1999-2001, and almost nothing has happened since. Have they ever been used in non-toy applications? -R. S. Shaw 01:33, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Having just returned from a sold-out Topic Maps conference, Emnekart Norge 2006, 29 March 2006 (program), run by the venerable Norwegian Computer Society, I'm convinced that there's quite a lot of new stuff going on, at least some of it not at all toy-like. There were new applications in municipal government (Stuttgart, DE), national government (Norwegian Directorate for Education and Training, Dutch Tax Administration, the U.S. Navy's Office of Naval Intelligence, the Danish Royal Library, etc. These newer projects are added to older, well-established non-toy applications at the U.S. Internal Revenue Service ("Tax Map"), at the U.S. Department of Energy classification of nuclear weapons secrets, and elsewhere. Steve Pepper's closing keynote in Oslo was an illuminating wrap-up. Steve Newcomb 2006-04-03.

The Oslo event was the fourth "Emnekart" conference, and there is another, perhaps more research-oriented October annual conference in Leipzig, Topic Maps Research and Applications (TMRA). In addition, many participants in the August Extreme Markup Languages Conference in Montréal have been providing leadership to the field since 1994. Topic Maps have had a slow, quiet start, but there is every reason to believe that, if the Topic Maps paradigm hasn't already crossed the chasm, it is certainly more than halfway across, and it is moving toward ubiquity with increasing speed. Steve Newcomb 2006-04-03

To R. S. Shaw: Several companies around the world are using Topic Maps activly in projects. Ontopia, Networked planet, Bouvet and Morpheus are such companies. Morpheus has projects at the Dutch tax officer, the dutch police, ministery of education and several more. The activity of Topic Maps is growing and I can recommend that you check out the Topicmaps-2008 conference. - Quixsilver (talk) 09:24, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Subsequent to TMAPI2.0 Announcement, I added this link. Also, reading down the page realised that the most important stuff - the actual links to the standards was too far down the page, so moved the Ontology/Merging stuff into a new section, further down. Utunga (talk) 23:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Context
The article should explain whether the ISO standards simply define a data interchange format, or whether the standard actually contains content which establishes a standardized ontology of topics. -- Beland (talk) 20:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

ISO Topic Maps vs. W3C RDF
This 2003 ref helps describe the analogous parts of two projects. The conclusion says "In short, it does appear that it is possible to live with both RDF and topic maps." -- Grantbow (talk) 23:12, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

 * That sort of nonsense was shot down in 2000, but it didn't become obvious to the muggles until the RDF documentation stack was redrafted in 2004. It still comes up. The RDF world is still All Just Doing It Wrong and there will always be a few HyTime / Topic Maps advocates that will maintain that. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:47, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

 * I wanted to compare the specs, not judge them. They are analogous and were built with different goals and histories. Though it is dated the 30-page ref (specifically that picture) is also one of the best comparisons I have seen of the two stacks of specs. I emailed Lars and he said ISO Topic Maps are now dead, so the market seems to have judged Topic Maps as wrong already. A few people still are making a living selling Topic Maps, and there are still a few Topic Map software installations, however the absence of any further statements from him is an indicator of where things have gone. People are well advised not to adopt Topic Maps these days. Grantbow (talk) 17:44, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The trouble is that Topic Maps in 2003 were judging RDF as "RDF-from-1999" and seeing it as "a metadata format". At that time (i.e. 1999) there was perhaps something to support their criticisms of RDF. By 2000 though, it was painfully obvious that the Topic Maps community's view of RDF was well out of date – particularly once you start looking at RDF Schema / DAML / OIL / OWL. In 2003, this well-known paper was just embarrassingly out of date. To be fair though, RDF wasn't generally well understood anywhere outside of a few buildings in Bristol and Boston until the 2004 documentation updated the W3C's public-facing explanation of what RDF was for. Ten years on and RDF still suffers from misunderstandings like it being "an XML format about metadata" etc. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:58, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, fast forward 9 years--are Topic Maps a thing or should this article all be re-written, with some sort of citations/evidence, in the past tense??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by DrKC MD (talk • contribs) 22:09, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Topic map