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Mikhail Drozdovsky

Mikhail Gordeevich Drozdovsky (Михаил Гордеевич Дроздовский; ; October 7, 1881 – January 1, 1919) was a Russian army general and one of the military leaders of the anti-Bolshevik White movement during the Russian Civil War. In early 1918 he led a regiment of volunteers from the Romanian Front on a march to southern Russia, where they joined the Volunteer Army of the White movement.

Biography
Drozdovsky was born in Kiev. His father had served in the Crimean War of 1853-1856 and became a highly-decorated general. Mikhail Gordeyevich's mother died when he was twelve, and he was largely raised by his elder sister, Yulia, who became a decorated nurse during the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905.

He started his military career early in life, entering the Polotsk Cadet Corps in 1892, and subsequently transferring to the Kiev Vladimir Cadet Corps, from which he graduated in 1899. In August 1899 he enrolled in the Pavlovsk Military School in St. Petersburg, famous for its strict discipline and considered a model in the training of officers of the Imperial Russian Army. He graduated in 1901 at the top of his class.

From 1901 Drozdovsky served in the Life Guards Regiment in Warsaw and was promoted to lieutenant in 1904. With the start of the Russo-Japanese War in 1904 he was sent to the front lines with the 1st Siberian Corps of the 2nd Russian Manchurian Army. He was wounded in the thigh during the Battle of Sandepu (January 1905), but remained on the front lines through the end of the conflict and was awarded with several decorations for heroism.

After the end of the Russo-Japanese War in September 1905, Drozdovsky completed his studies at the General Staff Academy in 1908 and was promoted to Shtabs-kapitan, and to captain in 1910. He was stationed at the Headquarters of the Amur Military District in Harbin, Manchuria. In November 1911, he was appointed Assistant to the Senior Staff of the Warsaw Military District.

With the start of the First Balkan War in October 1912 he volunteered for service with the Serbian or Bulgarian armies, but failed to gain permission to do so. Instead, he was assigned (1913) to the Sevastopol Aviation School, where he became a pilot and trained on aerial reconnaissance. He also trained with the Imperial Russian Navy, taking a dive in a submarine, and also diving using a diving suit. After this training, he returned to the Warsaw Military District.

At the start of World War I in 1914, Drozdovsky served as a staff officer for the Russian 27th Army Corps in the 2nd Army within the Northwestern Front. He made a number of reconnaissance missions using an airplane and a balloon. From December 1914 he was assigned to the headquarters of the 26th Army Corps. He was promoted to lieutenant colonel in March 1915, and became Chief of Staff of the 64th Infantry Division in May 1915.

He led his division from the front in numerous battles to the end of 1915. From October 1915 he was chief of staff of the 26th Army Corps. From the summer of 1916 he was on the General Staff as a colonel, serving within the Southwestern Front. Wounded in the hand during a battle on August 31, 1916, he was awarded the Order of St. George (4th class).

With the February Revolution of 1917, the Russian military faced the collapse of central authority. Known as a staunch monarchist, Drozdovsky refused to acknowledge the formation of committees of enlisted men which challenged the authority of (and often murdered) their superior officers. He suppressed Bolshevik elements within his command through executions, and managing to maintain discipline and order, continued combat operations against the Germans until late August 1917.

After the Bolshevik seizure of power in the October Revolution of 1917, and the signing of Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in March 1918, Drozdovsky took the initiative to support Mikhail Alekseev's Volunteer Army on the Don with volunteer units from the Romanian front. By March, this included 800 from Kishinev, and 900 from Iaşi. According to Peter Kenez, during the Iași–Don March, "The small army moved quickly through the Ukraine; at times the soldiers covered 40 to 45 miles a day." On 4 May, Drozdovsky arrived at Rostov-on-Don, then helped capture Novocherkassk on 6 May.

Drozdovsky's private notes written during the march show him as a patriotic officer who felt that he had no choice but to fight the Bolsheviks—whom he considered the destroyers of Russia. The notes often reveal a sense of doomed resignation. This, however, did not prevent him from acting with great energy and from being an inspiration to his men.

On April 21, 1918, Drozdovsky briefly captured Rostov-on-Don. While battling for Rostov's train station, Colonel Voinalovich, Drozdovsky's second-in-command and closest advisor, was killed in action. Three days later, Drozdovsky's force came to the assistance of the Don Cossacks desperately battling Red forces at Novocherkassk. The Reds were defeated and Drozdovsky's men marched into Novocherkassk. It is here, after a 900-mile march from Romania to the Don, that Drozdovsky and his men officially became part of the Volunteer Army.

In June 1918, at the start of the Second Kuban Campaign, General Anton Denikin promoted Drozdovsky to the rank of Major General, and his unit, now augmented with an influx of new volunteers, was designated as the 3rd Infantry Division. Drozdovsky's unit became one of the elite formations of the Volunteer Army (later called the Armed Forces of South Russia). Drozdovsky was one of the first among the White Army commanders to augment his forces with Red Army prisoners they captured in battle. Although the initial performance of these former Red Army troops exceeded Drozdovsky's expectations, as their numbers increased their reliability decreased.

General Drozdovsky was wounded in October 1918, during a battle near Stavropol. Although initially it was thought that the wound was not serious, he never recovered and died on January 1, 1919, in the vicinity of Rostov-on-Don. Subsequently the 3rd Infantry Division, which consisted of several regiments, became known as the Drozdovsky Rifle Division, one of the famous "colored" units of the Volunteer Army. The Drozdovsky Division was well known for its esprit de corps. In 1920, before the departure of the Volunteer Army from Crimea, General Drozdovsky's remains were secretly reburied by his men in Sevastopol, Crimea, to prevent their defilement by the Bolsheviks (as happened with the remains of General Lavr Kornilov). Their exact location remains unknown to this day.

Honors
Drozdovsky was a recipient of the following decorations:
 * Order of St. Anna 4th class, 1905
 * Order of Saint Stanislaus Ribbon.PNG Order of St. Stanislaus 3rd class, 1905
 * Order of Saint Anna ribbon bar.svg Order of St. Anna 3rd class, 1911
 * Saint vladimir (bande).png Order of St Vladimir, 4th class, 1915
 * Saint vladimir (bande).png Order of St Vladimir, 3rd class, 1917
 * Order of Glory Ribbon Bar.svg Order of St. George 4th class, 1917
 * St. George Sword, 1916

title: Mikhail Drozdovsky


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Joe Quest

Joseph L. Quest (November 16, 1852 – November 14, 1924) was an American professional baseball player from 1871 to 1892. He played 10 seasons in Major League Baseball (principally as a second baseman) for seven different major league clubs. His longest time with one team was with the Chicago White Stockings from 1879 to 1882, a stretch that included National League pennants in 1880, 1881, and 1882. He also appeared in parts of the 1883 and 1884 seasons with the St. Louis Browns and with the Detroit Wolverines in 1883 and 1885.

Although accounts vary as to the phrase's origin, Quest is perhaps most remembered for reportedly coining the phrase "Charley horse" to describe a sudden leg cramp or sprain. Quest appeared in 596 major league games and compiled a .217 batting average with 499 hits and 161 runs batted in. In 1878, he led the National League in errors at all positions, though he also led the league's second basemen in fielding percentage in both 1879 and 1881. He also led all position players with 331 assists in 1879.

Early years
Quest was born in 1852 in New Castle, Pennsylvania. His father, Jacob Quest, was a machinist in New Castle with a shop known as Quest & Shaw. Quest was an apprentice at his father's machine shop as a young man.

Cleveland Forest Citys
Quest began his major league career in 1871 at age 18 with the Cleveland Forest Citys of the National Association of Professional Baseball Players. He appeared in only three games for Cleveland, two at second base and one at shortstop, and compiled a .231 batting average.

Indianapolis
After the 1871 season, Quest did not return to the major leagues for another seven years. Though minor league records from the 1870s are incomplete, there is some record of Quest having played for the Indianapolis Blues of the League Alliance in 1877.

In 1878, the Indianapolis Blues attained major league status with admission to the National League. Quest was the team's regular second baseman in 1878, compiled a .205 batting average, and led the National League with 290 plate appearances and 221 outs made. He was also among the league leaders with 12 bases on balls (6th) and 45 runs scored (9th). Defensively, Quest led the league with 62 games played at second base, but also led all position players with 60 errors. Despite leading the league in errors, he appears to have had above average range, ranking among the league's leading second basemen with 228 putouts (2nd), 27 double plays (2nd), 196 assists (3rd), a 6.84 range factor (3rd), and an .876 fielding percentage (3rd).

Chicago
Quest joined Cap Anson's Chicago White Stockings for the 1879 season. He became the team's regular second baseman, appearing in 83 games at the position in 1879. Quest continued to under-perform offensively with a .207 batting average. His principal value remained in his defensive contributions. During the 1879 season, Quest led all position players in the National League with 331 assists and his Defensive Wins Above Replacement (Defensive WAR) rating of 1.4 was the sixth highest among all position players. He also led the league's second basemen with a .925 fielding percentage and ranked third with 263 putouts and 30 double plays. His range factor of 7.16 was a career high.

Quest remained in Chicago as the starting second baseman for the 1880 Chicago White Stockings team that compiled a 67–17 record (.798) and won the National League pennant by 15 games. Quest boosted his batting average to .237 in 1880 and contributed a career high 27 RBIs. Defensively, he continued to show his value with a 1.0 Defensive WAR that was 10th highest among all players in the National League. His 278 assists ranked fifth among all position players, though he also ranked fourth in the league with 68 errors.

Quest was again the starting second baseman for the 1881 White Stockings. The team won its second consecutive National League pennant with a 56–28 record. Quest compiled a .246 batting average with 26 RBIs and continued to rank as one of the best defensive players in the National League, as his .929 fielding percentage led the league's second basemen, and his Defensive WAR rating of 0.9 was ninth highest among all position players. In his autobiography, Cap Anson praised Quest's contributions to the White Stockings:"'Joe was a good, reliable, steady fellow, but a weak batsman. He was a conscientious player, however, and one that could always be depended upon to play the best ball that he was capable of. His strongest point was trapping an infield fly, and in this particular line he was something of a wonder.'"

During the 1882 season, Quest shared second base with Tom Burns, with Burns appearing in 43 games at the position and Quest in 41. Between them, they helped lead the White Stockings to their third consecutive National League pennant with a 55–29 record.

1883–1886
In December 1882, the White Stockings sold Quest to the Detroit Wolverines. Over the next four seasons, Quest played for four different teams, compiling a batting average of .212 with 35 doubles, 11 triples, and 56 RBIs. He played for the Detroit Wolverines for the first part of the 1883 season, the St. Louis Browns for the last part of the 1883 season and first part of the 1884 season, the Pittsburgh Alleghenys in the last part of the 1884 season, the Detroit Wolverines in 1885, and the Philadelphia Athletics in 1886. He appeared in his last major league game as a member of the Athletics on July 13, 1886.

Minor leagues
Although his major league career ended in 1886, Quest continued to play in the minor leagues through the 1892 season. His late minor league career included stints with Eau Claire, Wisconsin, in the Northwestern League (player-manager, 1887), Lowell, Massachusetts, in the New England League (1888), Toledo, Ohio, in the International League (1889), and the Ishpeming-Nagaunee Unions in the Wisconsin–Michigan League (player-manager, 1892). He also worked as an umpire in the Illinois–Iowa League in 1891, and in the Texas League in 1895.

Later years
Quest purchased land in Los Angeles in 1887. By 1920, Quest was living at 743 West Hawthorne in San Diego, California, with his sons, Joseph and Robert, and daughter, Helen Ethel. Quest died in 1924 at age 71 in San Diego. He was buried at Mt. Hope Cemetery there.

"Charley horse"
Quest has been credited in several accounts with coining the phrase "Charley horse" to describe a sudden leg cramp or sprain. In The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, baseball historian Bill James relies on an origin story set forth in multiple accounts published in 1906, and attributed to former outfielder Hugh Nicol. According to that version, Quest and several other members of the White Stockings spent an off day at a horse race on the south side of Chicago. The players had received a tip that a horse named "Charley" was a "sure thing" in one of the races. All of the players, except Quest, placed bets on Charley. The horse took an early lead in the race but pulled up lame around the final turn. Quest, who had been teased for not betting on the horse, reportedly yelled to the other players, "Look at your Charley horse now." The next day, while running to second base, Chicago outfielder George Gore pulled up with a strain, much as the horse had done. The incident is reported to have prompted Quest to proclaim, "There's your old Charley horse." From that time, the players began using the term to refer to a sudden leg cramp or strain.

The earliest known account of the phrase's origin in reference to a sports injury was published in the Boston Globe in 1886. The Boston Globe also attributed the phrase to Quest. According to that account, Quest "gave the name of 'Charlie horse' to a peculiar contraction and hardening of the muscles and tendons of the thigh, to which base ball players are especially liable from the sudden starting and stopping in chasing balls, as well as the frequent slides in base running."

According to a third account, published in 1889, Quest coined the phrase based on his experience working in his father's machine shop, where an old horse named "Charley" walked stiffly after pulling heavy loads. When later observing ball players walk with a similar stiffness after a cramp or strain, Quest was reported to have referred to the condition as a "Charley horse". A similar account was later published in The Sporting Life in 1898.

A fourth account, published in 1937, stated that Quest developed the phrase after limping off the field and commenting, "I'm as lame as that old white horse Charley over there in the lot." According to that account, team-mates began calling Quest "Charley horse" and used the term to refer to painful body stiffness from over-strained muscles.

Other accounts have cited origin stories unrelated to Quest, though it has been noted that such accounts "can be discounted because the term was in use before the protagonist came to be." One such version attributed the phrase to Charlie Esper, a pitcher who reportedly walked "like a lame horse." However, Esper did not begin playing until 1894, by which time the phrase was already well established.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Joe Quest


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pump It

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was KEEP and MERGE. User:Premeditated Chaos 02:33, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Pump It
Apparently a charting album track from the Black Eyed Peas. Fails to establish notability (a record being a charting single does not make it inherently notable, especially since it was not a hit. I would speedy megre to the relevant album, but I wanted a consensus first. FuriousFreddy 02:47, 30 September 2005 (UTC) Keep It's notable to note singles which were available to chart without promotion. OmegaWikipedia 03:03, 30 September 2005 (UTC) I'd leave it, whats wrong with having a page for this song? 217.34.35.180 19:34, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge as per WP:ALBUM. Jkelly 03:03, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * No, it's not. Thousands of songs have charted; that does not make them inherently notable for inclusion in an encyclopedia as spereate articles. Not even the All Music Guide does that. Besides, the record charted far below number forty: are you saying that every song by every artist that ever charted deserves an article for that reason and that reason alone? Such a suggestion would be highly irrational. The article is all of about four sentence, merge it in bulk to the article on the album and discuss the fact taht the album track charted there. I'm sure the album article isn't nearly long enough to prevent such an addition.--FuriousFreddy 03:30, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Thousands of songs chart each day? Um, no they don't Freddy. The Billboard Hot 100 is only made out of 100 positions. Most of the songs that chart have been promoted. It's rare to find songs that dont chart break in. Please stop twisting the facts. OmegaWikipedia 04:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * That isn't quite how I meant to word that, and I apoligize (and edited). Reworded, it makes sense. Fact of the matter is: every charting Hot 100 song is not deserving of an article, and just because a song is promoted does not make it notable. --FuriousFreddy 04:23, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * There's more charts than just Billboard Hot 100 (outside the US for example) and all of them chart songs. So thousands may well be accurate. - Mgm|(talk) 09:30, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Monkey Business (album). --bainer (talk) 03:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, charting singles are more notable than albums. Kappa 06:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * How so? --FuriousFreddy 21:28, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Because generally albums have no individual indentity. Kappa 23:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * What albums have you been listening to? Most record companies push singles so that they can sell albums. Albums having no individual identity applies primarily to older albums and compilations. --FuriousFreddy 01:02, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Monkey Business (album). It's... Thelb4! 07:05, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge as per FuriousFreddy. -- Kjkolb 08:55, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep single. I also dislike the notion that a single must be a "hit" to get an article.  A hit from whose viewpoint?  For one thing, this song was fairly successful, and is from a major album by a major artist.  If it was a garage-band CD-R passed around by some kid in high school, my vote would obviously be different.  Andrew Lenahan - St ar bli nd  13:59, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The article is all of a few sentences long, and would fit very neatly into the album article, which is also (lists aside) very short. --FuriousFreddy 21:28, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I would say keep, except there's not enough there worth keeping (yet?). So merge unless/until a lot more information makes it worth it to have its own article. I do not, however, agree that being a single is not enough to establish notability. --Jacquelyn Marie 22:05, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * There are far too many singles for each one to be notable just because it is a single. What can be said about most songs other than providing catalogue information on release dates, chart performances, and recording studio anecdotes. A single, something that is inherently trivial in the grand scope of an encyclopedia, needs to have some sort of importance or impact other than its general existence and chart performance to warrant having its own article. --FuriousFreddy 01:00, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I can concede some of the arguments you list, but I still think a charting single would be notable because enough people noticed it for it to chart. --Jacquelyn Marie 03:18, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * ...but when an article on a song reads simply like a catalogue listing (name, release date, label, sales, chart performance) is there a reason for a seperate article? Even an article with an expanded version of this inforamton is arbitrary. Articles are required to establish notability; saying that every charting single should be listed is like saying every book that charted on the Amazon sales list needs an article as well. --FuriousFreddy 04:29, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * ...whole point of Wikipedia is to have others add stuff to it, to make it more than a catalogue, no? And... all encyclopedias are arbitrary. They often don't contain information I think is important. (They may include things you don't think are important, or not include things you think are important.) Physical ones are limited by paper. Wikipedia is not. --Jacquelyn Marie 18:36, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * But Wikipedia articles should only be on notable sunjects. What makes this song more notable than your average song. Thousands of songs have reached the Top 100, and the very idea that they all deserve articles for that reason is absolutely ridiculous. This project is going to de-evolve into a fan-gushing vehicle with no semblance of credibility as a scholalry reference. --FuriousFreddy 20:55, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge to the album, nn single. User:Zoe|(talk) 07:12, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Merge with Monkey Business (album), per nominator. Extraordinary Machine 11:47, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, do not merge—to me whether it had an official single release or not is academic. The point is it charted, indicating a significant degree of popularity. Everyking 07:37, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Not a hit, eh, FuriousFreddy? What, have you been living in a hole? The song climbed to the top-five in the United States. Winnermario 02:43, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I take back what I said about the song climbing to the top-five, as I confused the track with "My Humps". I apologize to Furious Freddy, but as the song still charted, I still vote keep. Winnermario 02:46, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, this is a notable track as it charted on the Hot 100. Even though you personally may not find it notable, many other people would.  I think the fact that a song charted or was released makes it notable enough to have its own article.  This is not just an article about some random track but one by a very popular group from one of the best selling albums of 2005 which received decent play at different radio formats and at clubs.  The song was also featured in a very popular TV commercial.  --Musicpvm 03:19, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Millions (or atl east hundreds of thosuands) of songs have been charted and/or relased over the years in various countries. There needs to be more discernemnt than that. I dont nominate articles for deletion because I personally do not find them notable; I do it when I find articles that do not meet the Wikipedia standards for notability. The album's article is very short; a simple merge would make one article better instead of keeping two stubs around. --FuriousFreddy 03:44, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pump It


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Wikipedia talk:Mid-term filling of open ArbCom positions

I remember reading the Wikipedia Signpost recently, discussing the mid-term resignations of members of the Arbitration Committee. It noted that there was no firm policy in place with regards to replacing them, and that nobody knew what to do. I also thought about Delirium, who stated their intention to resign when such a policy was in place. The goal of this page is to discuss this problem, and the course of action we should take to correct it. Naturally, the first question is: 'what is to be done?' To this question, I think all of us will answer 'we must set up a written policy.'  Thus, we move on to the next question: 'what kind of policy should we have?'  Some possibilities:

 * 1) Jimbo appoints a replacement.
 * 2) * Advantage: quick response time (probably 3-5 days).
 * 3) * Disadvantage: puts the replacement in the hands of just one man. There's a reason why we hold elections for the ArbCom.
 * 4) The remaining Arbitrator select someone to be a replacement.
 * 5) * Advantage: process doesn't revolve around one person, but still pretty quick (probably 3-7 days).
 * 6) * Disadvantage: oligarchical process without much community involvement. Again, Arbitrators are elected for a reason.
 * 7) Appoint the runner-up in the most recent election.
 * 8) * Advantage: theoretically instantaneous, and the appointed Arbitrator has demonstrated support from the community.
 * 9) * Disadvantage: the base of community support may have disappeared. Also, they may have left the project or been disgraced in some way.
 * 10) Jimbo appoints a replacement, but gets official input from the community.
 * 11) * Advantage: probably won't slow the process much, but allows the community to voice its opinion.
 * 12) * Disadvantage: it's still Jimbo's decision.
 * 13) ArbCom appoints a replacement, but gets official input from the community.
 * 14) * Advantage: probably won't slow the process much, but allows the community to voice its opinion.
 * 15) * Disadvantage: it's still the ArbCom's decision.
 * 16) New Arbitrator is elected directly in a special election.
 * 17) * Advantage: community voices its opinion directly.
 * 18) * Disadvantage: potentially time consuming.

Please not that I am not advocating any particular one of these systems; I'm just throwing them out for y'all to think over. If you have any other ideas, please post them. Also, please note that ideas that garner no support will probably not be considered as options for the final policy.

Some other points to think about:
 * What should be the standard for the ratification of a new Arbitrator by the ArbCom?
 * What process should be used in the special election for the new Arbitrator?
 * How will we decide which policy is the final one?

Please add a new discussion heading when the next comment is posted. Thanks, Ingoolemo   talk 02:47, 30 September 2005 (UTC)


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Frank Quilici

Francis Ralph Quilici (May 11, 1939 – May 14, 2018) was an American professional baseball player, coach and manager who spent his entire Major League Baseball career with the Minnesota Twins. Quilici served the team for all or part of five years as an infielder, 1 $1⁄2$ years as a coach, and 3 $1⁄2$ years as manager, then spent six more years as a broadcaster for them. He threw and batted right-handed, stood 6 ft tall and weighed 170 lb.

Playing career
Quilici was born in Chicago, where he graduated from St. Mel High School. He attended Loras College and Western Michigan University. In 1961, he signed with the Twins during their first year in Minneapolis–Saint Paul after they transferred from Washington. Upon entering the Twins' farm system, he rose from Class D to Triple-A over the next 4 $1⁄2$ seasons and was batting .277 with the Denver Bears when the pennant-bound 1965 Twins called him to the majors in July. With veteran incumbent second baseman Jerry Kindall suffering from a chronic hamstring injury, Quilici quickly assumed a key role in the Minnesota lineup, starting 39 games at second base during the season's final ten weeks.

Then, in the 1965 World Series, Quilici started all seven games against the Los Angeles Dodgers and collected four hits (with two doubles) in 20 at bats and a run batted in. One of his doubles touched off a six-run, third inning rally against eventual Baseball Hall of Famer Don Drysdale in Game 1. When the Twins batted around in that frame, Quilici came to the plate again and chased Drysdale with a single. His two hits in one inning tied a record and sparked an 8–2 Minnesota victory. In the field, Quilici played every inning of all seven games, making two errors in 36 chances for a .944 fielding percentage. But the Twins succumbed to another future Hall of Famer, Sandy Koufax, in Game 7, 2–0, to lose the series. Quilici had a double in three at bats in that final contest against the Dodger southpaw.

The following year,, was a setback for Quilici. He spent the entire season at Triple-A Denver, as the Twins alternated Bernie Allen and César Tovar as their regular second basemen. When Quilici returned to Minnesota in it was as a utility infielder: standout rookie Rod Carew, yet another future Hall of Famer, won the Twins' second base job and would hold it for the next eight seasons. Quilici spent all of, and  on the Twins' roster, playing in an average of 109 games each year, mostly at second base, third base and shortstop, batting a career-high .245 in 1968. As a player, Quilici batted .214 in 405 games played; his 146 MLB hits included 23 doubles, six triples and with five home runs. He collected 53 runs batted in.

Coach, manager and broadcaster
During the 1970–1971 offseason, a vacancy opened on manager Bill Rigney's coaching staff when Sherry Robertson was killed in an automobile accident. Looking to save a roster spot, but retain Quilici as potential insurance in case one of their infielders were injured, the Twins named the 31-year-old to fill Robertson's slot as the club's fifth coach. While Quilici never returned to the active list, the coaching appointment lasted for all of and into.

On July 6, 1972, with team owner Calvin Griffith seeking to shake up his 36–34 Twins, then trailing the eventual World Series champion Oakland Athletics by 9 $1⁄2$ games in third place in the American League West, Quilici was promoted to replace Rigney as manager. Age 33 at the time of his appointment, he was the youngest pilot in the major leagues that season and throughout his managerial term. The Twins went 41–43 under Quilici in 1972 in the first of three straight third-place finishes, which included 81–81 in 1973 and 82–80 in 1974. When the club fell to fourth place with a 76–83 record in 1975, Quilici was fired after a season-ending 6–4 loss to the Chicago White Sox at Metropolitan Stadium on September 28. He was replaced by Gene Mauch two months later on November 24. His record as Minnesota's manager was 280–287 (.494).

He remained associated with the Twins, however, as a radio commentator on the team's broadcasts in 1976–1977, 1980–1982 and 1987. Outside of baseball he was active in business and charitable activities in the Twin Cities region.

Frank Quilici died on May 14, 2018, at the age of 79 in Burnsville, Minnesota, after suffering from kidney disease.

title: Frank Quilici


text:
Wikipedia:Mid-term filling of open ArbCom positions

No policy currently exist for replacing arbitrators who drop the position partway through their term, whether due to resignation, or, God forbid, death. Some discussion is occurring, but no formal policy is yet proposed. Please see Wikipedia talk:Mid-term filling of open ArbCom positions for more details.


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Albert Bryant Jr.

Albert Bryant Jr. (born February 22, 1952) is a retired United States Army brigadier general, best known for service as the Chief of Western Hemisphere Operations during and in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks and for his tenure as the Assistant Division Commander of the 4th Infantry Division at the time of the division's detection and capture of deposed Iraqi president Saddam Hussein. Bryant also served as the Deputy Commander of Fort Knox, Kentucky, and the United States Army's Armor School. As Chief of Staff of NATO's Kosovo Force (KFOR), Bryant was the highest ranking American general on the KFOR leadership team in the lead up to Kosovo independence.

Early life and education
Bryant was born on February 22, 1952, in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, and is of African, Chinese, and Irish-Scottish Celtic ancestry. His parents are retired U.S. Army Reserve Brigadier General and Congressional Gold Medal recipient, Albert Bryant Sr., an original Montford Point Marine, and Mable Bryant (née Lun), a nurse. The eldest of five siblings, including writer and novelist Lori Bryant-Woolridge, Bryant was reared in the San Francisco Bay Area. He attended Newark High School in Newark, California. Bryant graduated in 1970 with an appointment to the United States Military Academy at West Point.

Bryant earned an undergraduate degree in General Engineering from West Point, and holds a master's degree in Operations Analysis from Stanford University in Palo Alto, California. He holds an additional graduate degree from the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College School of Advanced Military Studies (SAMS).

Career
Bryant was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant, Armor Branch, from the U.S. Military Academy in 1974. After graduation, he attended the Armor Officer Basic Course and then assigned to 3d Squadron, 2d Armored Cavalry Regiment, Amberg, Germany as platoon leader and troop executive officer. Following the Armor Officer's Advanced Course, he was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 67th Armor, 2nd Armored Division, Fort Hood, Texas, as S3 (Air) and then as Commander, Company A.

Bryant attended graduate school at Stanford University, Palo Alto, California, receiving his Masters of Science Degree in Operations Research and Systems Analysis in 1983.

In 1986, Bryant attended the United States Army's Command and General Staff College and the Army's School of Advanced Military Studies receiving a Masters of Military Arts and Sciences. Subsequently he was assigned as Chief, Plans and Exercises G3, 5th Infantry Division, Fort Polk, Louisiana, and then as Executive Officer, 1st Battalion 70th Armor, and then as S3 for the 1st Raider Brigade.

In 1991, Bryant joined the Army Staff and the Directorate of Program Analysis and Evaluation as a Combat Systems Analyst. In 1993, he assumed command of the 4th Battalion, 67th Armor "Bandits", 1st Armored Division, Friedberg, Hesse Germany. Upon completion of command he was reassigned as Chief of Plans, G3, V Corps and served as Chief Planner for Operation Joint Endeavor, IFOR operations in Bosnia. Interviews with Bryant and a description of his planning efforts in support of Operation Joint Endeavor are featured in the 2005 book Armed Peacekeepers in Bosnia.

In 1996, Bryant returned from deployment to the United States Army War College's Operational Warfighting Fellowship at Fort Leavenworth in Kansas. In April 1998 he assumed command of 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Armored Division, Fort Riley, Kansas. Departing the "Bulldog Brigade" in 2000 he assumed duties as Chief, Western Hemisphere Operations, J3, the Joint Staff in Washington, D.C., serving as Chief of Western Hemisphere Operations during and in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks.

Bryant was then assigned to the United States Army Command and General Staff College as the Director, Center for Army Tactics and selected for promotion to brigadier general in March 2003. In June 2003, Bryant was assigned as Assistant Division Commander (Support), 4th Infantry Division (Mechanized) and Task Force Ironhorse conducting combat operations as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom. It was during this time that the 4th ID played the primary role in the location and capture of fugitive deposed Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.

In April 2004, the Division redeployed to Fort Hood, Texas, to refit in preparation for future operations, and Bryant reported to duty at Fort Knox, Kentucky, to serve as the Deputy Commanding General, U.S. Army Armor Center and Fort Knox, and head the Unit of Action Maneuver Battle Lab, or UAMBL.

The following year, Bryant was selected to represent the United States as Chief of Staff of NATO's internationally staffed Kosovo Force, KFOR, and relocated to Kosovo. He assumed his position at a NATO installation ceremony on June 27, 2005, becoming the senior American official on the KFOR HQ command leadership team.

Bryant's final military assignment was as the Director of Integration, Headquarters, Department of the Army, G8, at the Pentagon, where he supervised the planning and direction of equipment systems worldwide for the U.S. Army, synchronizing equipment deliveries with manning and training requirements, and served as chairman of the Army Reset Task Force.

Campaigns

 * Operation Joint Endeavor, assigned as Chief of Plans, G3, V Corps, serving as Chief Planner, IFOR operations in Bosnia; 1995–1996
 * Operation Iraqi Freedom, assigned as Assistant Division Commander (Support), 4th Infantry Division (Mechanized), and Task Force Ironhorse, based in Tikrit, Iraq; 2003–2004
 * NATO Operation, Kosovo Force, KFOR Chief of Staff, Kosovo; 2006–2007

Later work
Since retiring from active duty service, Bryant has served as an international civilian consultant on military, diversity, and executive management matters, primarily based alternately in the United Arab Emirates and the Washington, D.C., metropolitan area.

Personal life
Bryant has been married since 1975 to the former Renée Saxton, daughter of retired Army and Illinois National Guard Brigadier General Richard Saxton. They have four children. Their eldest son is broadcaster and writer Benjamin Bryant, who is best known in military circles as the lead editor of the 2010 DoD reports recommending the repeal of the 1993 Don't Ask, Don't Tell law.

Medals and ribbons

 * Distinguished Service Medal ribbon.svg Distinguished Service Medal
 * U.S. Defense Superior Service Medal ribbon.svg Defense Superior Service Medal
 * Legion of Merit ribbon.svg Legion of Merit (2 Oak Leaf Clusters)
 * Bronze Star ribbon.svg Bronze Star
 * Defense Meritorious Service Medal ribbon.svg Defense Meritorious Service Medal
 * Meritorious Service Medal ribbon.svg Meritorious Service Medal (7 Oak Leaf Clusters)
 * Army Commendation Medal ribbon.svg Army Commendation Medal (2 Oak Leaf Clusters)
 * Army Achievement Medal ribbon.svg Army Achievement Medal (Oak Leaf Cluster)
 * Global War on Terrorism Service ribbon.svg Global War on Terrorism Service Medal
 * Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary ribbon.svg Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal
 * National Defense Service Medal ribbon.svg National Defense Service Medal (2 Stars)
 * USA - Army Outstanding Civilian Service Award.png Meritorious Public Service Medal
 * NATO Medal Non-Article 5 - Operations in the Balkans.png NATO Non-Article 5 Medal
 * Combat Action Badge.svg Combat Action Badge
 * US Army Airborne basic parachutist badge.gif Parachutist Badge

Honors and decorations bestowed on Bryant by foreign governments include:
 * GER Bundeswehr Honour Cross Gold ribbon.svg German Cross of Honour of the Bundeswehr in Gold
 * Medaglia commemorativa operazioni di pace BAR.svg  Italian Commemorative Cross for Peace Operations

Bryant is also a 1998 recipient of the Draper Armor Leadership Award for Excellence in Leadership from the Draper Combat Leadership Trust Fund Council, and has named to the U.S. Cavalry and Armor Association's Order of St. George, in addition to various community and professional recognitions and honors.

title: Albert Bryant Jr.


text:
Komsomolskaya (Koltsevaya line)

Komsomolskaya (Комсомо́льская) is a Moscow Metro station in the Krasnoselsky District, Central Administrative Okrug, Moscow. It is on the Koltsevaya line, between Prospekt Mira and Kurskaya stations.

The station is located under the busiest Moscow transport hub, Komsomolskaya Square, which serves Leningradsky, Yaroslavsky, and Kazansky railway terminals. Because of that, the station is one of the busiest in the whole system. It opened on 30 January 1952 as a part of the second stage of the line.

Evolution of the design
Stations on the first southern segment of the Koltsevaya line were dedicated to the victory over Nazi Germany, while those on the northern segment (Belorusskaya-Koltsevaya to Komsomolskaya) were dedicated to the theme of post-war labour. Komsomolskaya was designed by Alexey Shchusev as an illustration of a historical speech given by Joseph Stalin November 7, 1941. In the speech, Stalin evoked the memories of Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy and other military leaders of the past, and all these historical figures eventually appeared on the mosaics of Komsomolskaya.

The early roots of the station's design can be traced to a 1944 draft by Shchusev implemented in pure Petrine baroque, a local adaptation of the 17th century Dutch Golden Age. However, after the end of World War II the drafts of 1944 were discarded and the stations of the Koltsevaya line were completed in the mainstream late Stalinist style of the period. Shchusev, who died in 1949, retained his baroque nonce order.

Komsomolskaya remained Shchusev's first and only metro station design. The station was initially planned as a traditional deep pylon type. Later, Shchusev replaced the heavy concrete pylons with narrow octagonal steel columns, riveted with marble tiles, creating the larger open space.

After Shchusev's death, the station was completed by Viktor Kokorin, A. Zabolotnaya, V. Varvarin and O. Velikoretsky and Pavel Korin, the creator of the mosaics.

Architecture and decoration
Beginning with the large vestibule located among the former of the two train stations, the building features a large octagonal dome topped by a cupola, and a spire crowned by a large star and imposing full-height portico with stylised Corinthian columns. Inside amid the Baroque-style ornaments, rich torchères and chandelier lights, two escalators descend, one leading to the old 1935 Komsomolskaya-Radialnaya station, and the second to this one.

On the platform level, there is a Baroque ceiling, with accompanying friezes, painted yellow. Supporting the enlarged barrel vault are 68 octagonal columns faced with white marble, and topped with baroque pilasters. The platform is lit up by chandeliers and additional concealed elements in the niches of both the central and platform halls.

The theme of the design, the Historical Russian fight for freedom and independence, is expressed in eight large ceiling mosaics by Pavel Korin. Korin said that the inspiration came from Joseph Stalin's speech at the Moscow Parade of 1941, where he inspired the soldiers amid the catastrophic losses in the early period of World War II to remember the historical heroics of their Russian forefathers. The idea to design the art as a mosaic came from the Saint Sophia Cathedral in Kiev, where Korin saw that such artforms could last for eternity. Chronologically the mosaics are as following:
 * 1242: Alexander Nevsky after the Battle on the Ice.
 * 1380: Dmitry Donskoy after the Battle of Kulikovo.
 * 1612: Kuzma Minin and Dmitry Pozharsky after the end of the Time of Troubles.
 * 1799: Alexander Suvorov after the Crossing of the Alps.
 * 1812: Mikhail Kutuzov after the Battle of Borodino.
 * 1945: The original mosaic here was of Red Army troops on Red Square receiving the Guards banner from Soviet army command, but because it contained images of some commanders whose careers and legacy would later be re-evaluated (including Joseph Stalin) most of the mosaic was replaced with that of Vladimir Lenin addressing a meeting in Red Square, thus moving the date of the artwork to a period between 1917 and 1922.
 * 1945: Soviet Troops on the Reichstag building after the Battle of Berlin (according to some, the original banner had superimposed profiles of Lenin and Stalin: the latter was removed to leave just Lenin remaining).
 * 1945: The original image was of a Victory parade with Soviet soldiers throwing captured Nazi banners in front of Lenin's mausoleum. However, for the same reason as the sixth image, this image was retouched on several occasions. When Lavrenty Beria was arrested in 1953, his glasses were erased and then the whole figure was removed. Then in 1957, after the political crisis saw the end of the careers of Vyacheslav Molotov and Lazar Kaganovich, their images followed suit. Finally, after 1961 brought the end of Stalin's personality cult, in early 1963 the whole panel was taken down, and Korin redesigned it by placing a maiden (symbolising Mother Russia) standing on the Nazi banners in front of the same mausoleum, holding a hammer and sickle in one hand and a palm branch in the other. This mosaic is made of more than 300,000 tiles, takes up 31.5 sqm and weighs more than three tonnes.

In between each of the main mosaics there are smaller ones made of gilded smalt depicting various weaponry and armour. One set is focused on ancient Russian equipment, a second on the Napoleonic era, and the third on World War II. At the end of the platform is a bust of Vladimir Lenin under an arch decorated with gilt floral designs and the Coat of arms of the Soviet Union.

In the centre of the red granite covered platform are two passageways, surrounded by marble balustrades with escalators that descend into a lobby with a main escalator tunnel upwards to the Sokolnicheskaya line's Komsomolskaya station. On the wall opposite the escalator is a large fluorescent mosaic, also of Pavel Korin, depicting the Order of Victory surrounded by red and green banners and Georgian colours.

In 1951 both Pavel Korin and Alexey Schusev were posthumously awarded the Stalin Prize for their work on the station, and on 30 January 1952 the station was opened to the public as the first on the second stage of the Koltsevaya line. In 1958 the station was awarded the Grand Prix ("Grand Prize") title of Expo '58 in Brussels.

title: Komsomolskaya (Koltsevaya line)


text:
User talk:Sensei-moo

Editing Karate Page
Sensei Moo, the edits you made to the Karate page were poorly written and out of place. Please ensure that what you write conforms to the structure and quality of the article.

Also, you cannot simply present things that you believe or have heard as fact. "I" should never appear in an encyclopedia article. If you wish to discuss the edits you made, please bring it up on the Talk Page for Karate. We are always happy to have another Wikipedian. Bihal 02:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Sensei-moo


text:
Luis Quiñones (baseball)

Luis Raúl Quiñones Torruellas (born April 28, 1962) is a former utility infielder in Major League Baseball and current hitting coach for the Batavia Muckdogs, Short-Season Single-A affiliate of the Miami Marlins. From 1983 through 1992, Quiñones played for the Oakland Athletics (1983), San Francisco Giants (1986), Chicago Cubs (1987), Cincinnati Reds (1988–91) and Minnesota Twins (1992). He was a switch-hitter and threw right-handed. He received National League Player of the Week honors for the week beginning September 3, 1989.

Luis was a member of the Cincinnati Reds 1990 World Series Championship team. He drove in what would be the winning run in Game 6 of the 1990 NLCS, a 2–1 Reds victory and the National League pennant.

After spending the 2009 season as the hitting coach for the Oneonta Tigers, he was promoted by the Detroit Tigers to the same position with the West Michigan Whitecaps of the Midwest League.

In an eight-season career, Quiñones posted a .226 batting average with 19 home runs and 106 RBI in 442 games played.

title: Luis Quiñones (baseball)


text: User talk:69.70.147.140

title: User talk:69.70.147.140


text:
Domingo Esteso

Domingo Esteso (1882–1937) was a luthier who trained under Manuel Ramírez. His nephews, Faustino, Mariano and Julio Conde inherited his workshop and changed the name to Conde Hermanos. Nowadays, the family tradition established by Domingo Esteso is being continued at their workshops in central Madrid by Felipe Conde at 4 Arrieta St., Mariano Conde at 1 Amnistia St. next to Opera metro station and Julio Conde's sons and granddaughter at 53 Atocha St.

Esteso concentrated almost exclusively on building flamenco-style guitars, and his instruments are world-renowned for their physical lightness, yet very strong volume and sound-projection. A crack-free and unmolested example can cost several tens of thousands, either Euros or $. Most remaining Estesos however have been somewhat, up to extensively, repaired; due to the age and fragility of the instruments and the firm, often percussive playing-style associated with flamenco.

title: Domingo Esteso


text:
Talk:Betrayal

Article construction resources
Found an article scientifically related to betrayal? List it here. No signatures.

On betrayal and its psychology
Questions:
 * How is betrayal scientifically defined? And how does this definition compare & contrast to popular ideas about betrayal?
 * What motivates a person to betray?
 * How does a person exist with that motivation before the betrayal?
 * How does a person exist with the betrayal after the betrayal?
 * What effects does betrayal have on those betrayed?

Other topics:

 * Betrayal in politics (includes treason)

Links:
 * The Arc of Deception: From Little Lies to Treachery

On betrayal trauma and betrayal trauma theory

 * What is a Betrayal Trauma? What is Betrayal Trauma Theory?
 * What is Trauma?
 * The (Un)Acceptability of Betrayal: A Study of Late Adolescents' Evaluations of Sexual Betrayal by a Romantic Partner and Betrayal of a Friend's Confidence
 * Psychology Today: Search: "betrayal"
 * Jennifer J. Freyd's book: "Betrayal Trauma: The Logic of Forgetting Childhood Abuse"
 * Jennifer J. Freyd's article: "Betrayal Trauma: Traumatic Amnesia as an Adaptive Response to Childhood Abuse"

Articles for Deletion debate
This article survived an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Splash talk 21:50, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Traitors?
Would it be a good idea to add a list of famous traitors? Like Judas Iscariot, Brutus, Benedict Arnold? User:71.115.222.77 00:05, 29 December 2005
 * If that information can be tied into the article; otherwise, I don't see the relevance. Adraeus 20:23, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Where has it gone, this text?
"Betrayal can occur between two (adult) persons as well as between single persons and a whole group. The story of Gangaji and Eli Jaxon-Bear (two spiritual teachers married to each other) has been defined by them as betrayal of the teacher-disciple-relationship, too..
 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.201.158 (talk) 22:45, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Who
Who is Michael Tammadge? This one? http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=56536592310
 * -- 88.75.217.44 (talk) 10:53, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Wiktionary
This article looks to me like two dictionary definitions not an encyclopedia article. I suggest this information be added to the relevant wiktionary pages (assuming it is all verifiable) and the dab page moved to this page. Abtract (talk) 13:57, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Agree. This page survived an AfD in 2005 on the grounds that it was brand new then and might develop into an encyclopedia article.  In 5 years it has not done so.  Looks like in addition Double cross (disambiguation) should be moved to Double cross. 64.105.65.28 (talk) 14:35, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Apparently this is a continuing saga. See Articles for deletion/Double cross and Talk:Double cross.  I think it is time for another AfD. 64.105.65.28 (talk) 17:22, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I started an AfD but I cannot complete it, except by explaining here. The article already has had and AfD and was kept simply because it was new. Now, 5 years later, it is not new but the reason for deletion remains: it is a dictionary definition plus clutter. The article Double cross also was put up for AfD and result was delete, moving the content to this article. The belongs here even less than it belonged at the original article; this is a dictionary word and the article content simply is not encyclopedic. 64.105.65.28 (talk) 19:23, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Given that betrayal is a fundamental ingredient of human interaction, I think there is more to it than a mere definition. Regardless, the betrayal trauma material should be kept somewhere. --DanielCD (talk) 15:56, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Betrayal trauma, bullying and teachers
Error in reference 4: The Link to »Freyd, Jennifer J. "What is a Betrayal Trauma? What is Betrayal Trauma Theory?". University of Oregon. Retrieved 2010-09-26 .[dead link] « is now:  http://pages.uoregon.edu/dynamic/jjf/defineBT.html    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.114.183.61 (talk) 07:01, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

What about a feeling of betrayal towards teachers who do nothing to stop bullying? I remember teachers who actually encouraged it and even thought it was "cute" when the child of a higher socioeconomic status bullied one of a lower. Kids know when favoritism is being played, but can this be traumatizing? --DanielCD (talk) 15:54, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

emotional effect
It is true that betrayal is underviewed as it can cause pain beyond belief, yet people are to busy complain about seaguls stealing chips, for example is there another way to reverse the bad emotional effects? 21:43 26 november 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.149.171 (talk) 21:44, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Treachery
The usage of Treachery is under discussion, see talk:Treachery -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:44, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Treacherous
The usage of is under discussion, see talk:Treacherous (song) -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:46, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Betrayal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100706231018/http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/%7Ejjf/defineBT.html to http://dynamic.uoregon.edu/~jjf/defineBT.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 02:54, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

river is causing depression, the saga
Book one is river causing emotional stree,

Book two is river causing mild depression

book 3 river cause absolute clinical depression, leading you to suicide!

the end

river is bad boy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.123.179.104 (talk) 21:15, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Adult Development winter 2024
— Assignment last updated by Lilasmith44 (talk) 04:37, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Betrayal


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gfxtreme

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was SPEEDY DELETED by Android79. -Splash talk 22:02, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Gfxtreme
"gfxtreme is a cool forum / website," but WP:NOT a web directory, even for cool sites. — brighterorange  (talk) 02:50, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete notability not established. Nateji77 04:39, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Blatant advertising. - Mgm|(talk) 09:27, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete as an A1, almost an A3. So tagged.  Delete it slowly if that doesn't work.  Friday (talk) 14:33, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Maianthemum trifolium

Maianthemum trifolium (Three-leaf Solomon's-seal, three-leaf Solomon's-plume, threeleaf false lily of the valley, smilacine trifoliée) is a species of flowering plant that is associated with extremely wet environments and is native to Canada and the northeastern United States as well as St. Pierre and Miquelon and Asia (Siberia).

Description
It is a herbaceous perennial plant growing erect, 10 - 25 cm tall. It grows off spreading sympodial rhizomes with roots found only at nodes. New plants produce two petiolate foliage leaves the first year, then a flowering shoot the second year with 2-4 sessile leaves.

Leaves
Fertile plants have 2-4 alternate leaves that are elliptic, 5 – long and 2.5 – broad. Leaf bases are narrowly tapered and tips pointed.

Flowering clusters
5 to 15 flowers are produced on a simple raceme 5 – long. There is only one flower per node, set on a 1 – long pedicel.

Flowers and fruits
Flowers are trimerous, that is, flower parts are in groups of three. Each flower has 6 white tepals 2 – long. Fruits are berries 4 – wide, mottled with fine red spots when young, maturing to red. Berries contain 1-3 small, rounded seeds. Flowering is May to June, berries remain on plants into September.

Distribution
Found in all Canadian provinces and territories and in the USA in some northeastern states (Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Wisconsin). Also found in St. Pierre and Miquelon and Asia (Siberia).

Habitat and ecology
Maianthemum trifolium often forms dense patches in wet forests, sphagnum bogs and other wetlands and is sometimes considered to be aquatic.

title: Maianthemum trifolium


text:
Fairy Meadow

Fairy Meadow may refer to:

 * Fairy Meadow, New South Wales, a suburb of Wollongong
 * Fairy Meadow railway station, a railway station there
 * Fairy Meadows, a scenic location in Gilgit-Baltistan, Pakistan
 * Bill Putnam hut, an alpine hut in Canada also known as the Fairy Meadow hut

title: Fairy Meadow


text: User talk:209.179.168.50

title: User talk:209.179.168.50


text:
Talk:Paramount Airlines

Merge
Suggest moving this page to Paramount Airways as that is the actual name of the airline. I have moved the content to that page. This page only really needs to be replaced with a redirect. I thought it bbest to leave it here for a few days to allow people to update their watchlists. -- Adz 07:05, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose Paramount Airways is an article about an airline in India. This is an article about an airline in Sierra Leone.  If the name is wrong, the appropriate action would be to move the article to Paramount Airways (Sierra Leone).  --Lineagegeek (talk) 15:56, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Fleet info
After this page is moved, the fleet info should be updated. The article says that there are 3xEMB175 and 5xEMB170s in the fleet. According to the November 2005 edition of Airliner World Magazine, there was an order placed for a total of 5 aircraft, the first of which was delivered in September 2005. At most there would be five aircraft in the fleet (although not all would have been delivered yet), not eight as the article suggests. -- Adz 07:05, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Paramount Airlines


text:
Talk:Oldowan

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 6 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): The Cheeze It.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Origin of Oldowan ?
If "Nuts and bones are cracked by hitting them with hammer stones on a stone used as an anvil", then perhaps the first Oldowan stone tool, was an anvil stone accidentally fractured, during the attempted crushing of nuts or bones ? 24.143.92.97 (talk) 17:31, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

I would like to change the 2.6 million years to 3.3 based on the Lomekwi 3 find in 2011 on. http://africanfossils.org http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-32804177 "Oldest stone tools found at Lomekwi3 Kenyan in 2011 and by 2012 a total of 149 tools had been found" I will look into the results of the 2014 field trip too. SamiAEH (talk) 07:51, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

"Flint Jack?"
"The tools" - "Manufacture of the tools" makes reference to a British swindler named Edward Simpson or "Flint Jack". I can't find any other information about such a character. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jdz (talk • contribs) 11:38, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

ALLCAPS
Heading added MaxEnt (talk) 03:23, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

NO ONE USES THE SPELLING "OLDUWAN". EVERY ARCHAEOLOGISTS, TEXTBOOK, AND PEER-REVIEWED JOURNAL USES OLDOWAN.with love, Pre-ski1888 03:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello! I changed the name to Olduwan as the primary name, even though you sometimes see the other spellings in older literature. The Leakey Foundation, which you can look up on the Internet, uses Olduwan. It makes sense: Olduvai/Olduwan, as opposed to Oldoway/Oldowan. It is better not to mix systems, I think. Agreed? To tell you the truth, I've never seen Oldawan, but I take the author's word that it was used.Botteville 02:51, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi, I've never red Olduwan before and it sounds unusual, even if Leakey foundation uses it. Just check searching Olduwan and Oldowan with Google : you will get 691 results with the former and... more than 50 000 with the latter ! I20 00:05, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, I have notice that Louis Leakey used Oldowan (not Olduwan) in his first outstanding publication: Leakey, L. S. B. (1936): Stone Age in Africa. Oxford. --Locutus Borg [[Image:Logo-Borg.gif|17px]], Talk to me 12:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
 * And who the heck ever used OldAwan??? When did that variation get added.  Poor Oldowan culture, always going back in time instead of forward.Levalley (talk) 20:28, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

photos?
If anyone has some photographs, it would help distinguish this technology from other stone tools (e.g. Acheulean). Istvan 05:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Ilustrations of tools
First, sorry for my very bad english, I am an spanish archaeologist and need to tell you about some mistakes. I hope you understand my language, characteristic of Tarzan.

Some lithic attribution of tools illustrated in the article are wrong. For instance:

Really is a typicall biface acheulean with retouches, but its support es a flake. For this reason no need more knapping. It is the law of minimum effort and maximum efectivity.
 * Your heart makes up for your English. Thanks for your pointers and pictures.Dave 03:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

It is a lithic core very evolved, never an arcaic artifact. This is not a tool, but a remainder of knapping with the objet of obtain flakes, probably near of the Levallois recurrent method. So, it is an Acheulean artifact, not a tool, but a trashed piece of raw material, after her profit.

If you need some really archaic tools, tell me and I look it for, as soon as possible.

sorry and thanks --Locutus Borg 16:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Our dear Spanish poster is correct- those are not Olduwan tools.Levalley (talk) 20:29, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Merging of Chopper and Chopping tool with Oldowan
I strongly oppose these merges, one of which has already taken place, as my understanding is that choppers and chopper tools are not exclusively Oldowan artefacts but are also used to describe the tools made by homo erectus in Eastern Asia (Source: Oxford Dictionary of Archaeology). Also we have not previously conflated articles on early prehistoric cultures with their characteristic cultural material, ie Acheulean and handaxe. adamsan 09:08, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Oppose for the same reasons as above  - I can see no overwhelming arguement for these merges. :: Kevinalewis  :  (Talk Page)  09:44, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I have now reverted the Chopper/Oldowan merge as it became clear that the editor was not aware that choppers are found in East Asia and not considered Oldowan. These tools are part of the East Asian Flake and Chopper Tradition (Scarre, C. The Human Past, Thames and Hudson, London, 2005, p86). The current Oldowan article implies that the East Asian sites belong to the industry which is not correct. The Zhoukoudian assemblage...probably represents a totally distinct, contemporaneous artefact tradition that was widespread in East Asia (ibid, p 100). These finds also post-date the Oldowan technology by quite some degree. adamsan 09:53, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

 * to Adamsan: I don't think you're understanding the basic nature of the use of the term Oldowan.  It's like saying that a computer is not an electric appliance and that "Electric appliance" was a term invented before computers and refers only to blenders and mixers.  It's true that computers come along later, also true that that they can be used alongside blenders and mixers, but is also true that they're not usually called "electric appliances" in the ordinary use of the term, just as Oldowan tool culture continues to exist after new innovations come along.  They are for different things.  The phasing in and out of the two different two cultures (Oldowan and Acheulian) is of real importance in understanding prehistory.  The fact is:  NO one adopts the Acheulian without first having had...the Oldowan.  The Acheulian is not invented, is not used, in places where there is no tradition at all of flintknapping at a more primitive level.  Once it is invented, it can appear in sites where it's "new" because people migrate with their tools, but the fact remains, one came first - the Oldowan, it does not die out when the Acheulian arrives, the Acheulian is a distinctly different "appliance," Oldowan is exclusively for the kitchen, Acheulian does a lot of other things.Levalley (talk) 22:58, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

regarding tool use, Olduwan
There is a lot of material in this article that espouses points of view that are controversial at worst, or at least not universally accepted.

There should be more cites, especially under The tool users section. Terms such as "In truth...", "...the seemingly self-evident, but fallacious, idea..." etc need to be properly attributed as they take a ridged stance, and this POV is not always one that everyone within the field would agree with.
 * You or someone must have taken out those horrible phrases. They really amount to vandalism so they should have been fixed right away. Your sentence "there is a lot in this article ..." gives me a bad feeling. Who is to say what is controversial and what not, you? If we start cutting out the non-universally accepted you can junk the whole article. The goal of anthropology is not universal acceptance. That is what gives me misgivings about you. Be that as it may, instead of junking the article, why don't you present other points of view? If there is an issue, present the issue! That is the right way to do it. What it smells like you are saying is, "I don't like something in anthropology." Put up or shut up.Dave 03:48, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, under the same section there is a fallacy that chimpanzees are sophisticated tool users. (in reality chimpanzees use very basic tools, and rely on individual to individual transmission of specific use rather that a wide culture transmission). Just because we can train a dog to catch a Frisbee, for example, does not indicate that the dog will then teach other dogs to catch frisbees. Chimpanzees tool use in general is much more nuanced then the section attributes, and should perhaps be removed completely from this article as is bears only tangentially to the topic at all.

Edgeways 00:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, edgeways, it is hard to read your last sentence as actual English. I mean, it is grammatical but its content seems to be missing. I suspected as much in your previous comment.Dave 03:48, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm starting to work at this section. Someone needs to cite which Toth article is being talked about for the tool use. I don't have access to Pan the Toolmaker or its follow up article, so I can't tell which study the original editor was talking about. Also, I strongly suspect a good deal of this was "googlepedia" because various people don't have their names ascribed to them, as is common for articles edited from online materials that cite by initials. EG JWK Harris is Dr. John Harris of Rutgers etc.

There is more to do.

Stirling Newberry 07:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello Stirling I'm seeing some of your changes. You might have a tendency to go a little too far there. Social animals clearly outnumber solitary ones. Do you actually have any solitary mammals in mind? And what do mean, "lower anmimals" is obsolete? Since when, buddy? And what do YOU think replaced it? For the paucity of sources you are right, there are not enough of them. This was an earlier effort. But, it's an ongoing effort. I meant to get back to it and now I am. We can do it together, you and I. Do you contribute or just criticise? But for the time I don't plan to change any changes until the article takes more shape. One of my problems was, there was not too muuch anthropology on Wikipedia, but it is getting better. NOW there are some pictures, and I'm totally impressed with the hominin/hominid distinctions, which weren't there before. In all this however don't think I've accepted your quibbling "lower animal" trashing. Later.Dave 03:48, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your efforts on this. Of course, there is always more to do. I put in a few notes on your notes but I'm still building the subject Wikiwide. Oh, those who may have said that this or that person needs an article, go right ahead and do one. This is a self-help type of thing. Help yourself!Dave 03:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Copy edit and citation tags
There seems to be an issue over what goes in the tagged subsection. The other current main editor of it cannot agree and he seems to feel there is a question of attack ad hominem. As we are not able to work this out I recuse myself from the subsection. However, I feel that the article, which is slated for the CD at some point, should maintain as high standards as we can get. The paragraphs that have been inserted below the templates in that section need attention from an English point of view. They need to made grammatical, readable, and generally comprehensible, which currently they do not seem to be. Furthermore the current other editor keeps removing my efforts to organize and clean it up; moreover, he does not give any citations or references for the issues, debates and conclusions he cites. Therefore I am recusing my self fom that part of it and am suggesting that other Wikipedians with the required skills and knowledge pay attention to the section. Thank you very much.Dave 18:08, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Dave, I looked at it again today. I made more comments under headings at the bottom for less confusion as to chronology. I added 2 messsages, related to need to find an expert to help with the verification and references, and general cleanup. I also deleted the three pictures of young captive apes as being unrelated to the article. I wish I could spend the time to help but this isn't my area of primary interest/expertise and I don't have library access to the articles needed for wikiverification. Good luck.Trilobitealive (talk) 21:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

¿Acheulian equivocation?
Why Dave says «The pictures in the introduction to this article are mainly labeled Acheulian, but this is the now false Acheulian, which also includes Abbevilian.».

The pictures have been taken from several researches about the Acheulian in Spain. The investigated sites are definitively acheulians, not oldowayans neither abbevilians. I don't understand the expression false Acheulian. What means? The pre-acheulian sites in Spain are very unusual and the Abbevilian nature it is not proved in the Iberian peninsula (only, perhaps, an early Acheulian).

The lithic typology or technology can't be a chronological or cultural rule: that attitude only lead to mistakes. For instance, the choppers appears in Spain until the Middle Ages and the French prehistorian Pierre Biberson notice that the Moroccan fishers used choppers in 20th century for open shells.

I want say that it is scientifically demonstrated that the pictures of Spanish artifacs are really Acheulian, not Abbevilian. Abbevilian it is only an archaic style of knapping that can appear even in the Mousterian sites. I know that very well, I personally investigated about that, I am an specialist (not in English, obviously ). See, for instance: Thanks--Locutus Borg, Talk to me 10:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Benito del Rey, Luis y Benito Álvarez, José Manuel (myself): "La Salamanca Paleolítica", in Congreso de Historia de Salamanca 1989, Tomo 1.- Gráficas Ortega, S. A., Salamanca, 1992.- ISBN 84-604-3130-4.
 * Benito Álvarez, José Manuel (2002), Aportaciones al conocimiento del Achelense en la Meseta Norte, University of Salamanca (Doctoral Thesis degree —maxima cum laude—, unpublished, sorry)
 * Benito del Rey, Luis y Benito Álvarez, José Manuel (myself), 2000: "Secuencias inferopaleolíticas en la cuenca del Duero", in SPAL n# 9 (Seville University), ISSN 1133-4525.
 * Etc.

Will someone please change the name to Oldowan????
NO ONE USES THE SPELLING "OLDUWAN". EVERY ARCHAEOLOGISTS, TEXTBOOK, AND PEER-REVIEWED JOURNAL USES OLDOWAN. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pre-ski18888 (talk • contribs) 02:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

 * Either one is acceptable and probably the least of this article's concerns. It is taught with both spellings at various universities around the U.S.  The comprehension of this article should be the foremost priority.  Every archeologist, textbook, and journal does not use the "Oldowan" spelling but thanks for the trivial concern...  Stevenmitchell 06:44, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Using correct terminology is not a trivial concern in an encyclopedia. While both spellings are indeed used, a simple search in google scholar will reveal that "Olduwan" is indeed the much rarer spelling. Yahewe 16:09, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know that satire was permitted in Wikipedia
A quote from the article: "One should also remember that a neo-Oldowan, of a far different culture than the originals, has been created in educational circles." This seems like it is purely satirical in its nature. While I agree that in the US the educational community approaches the ossification of intellectual ability seen for tens of thousands of years in pre-human hominid cultures there is no place for satire in Wikipedia. If this isn't satire I'd like someone to point out one single reference to this that isn't a mirror site. I'm going to check back in a few days and delete the references to neo-Oldowan unless someone can prove it isn't a satirical fabrication. Regards Trilobitealive 21:21, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Brief revisit
Hi there everyone. By now everyone knows Dave worked on the original article. Then I got into it with Stirling Newberry and decided I should step back until I had more experience. What was happening is, I was not putting in the in-line citations because I believed they clutter the article. This happened to me on a few other articles and I see it happening to others as well.

Well, you should always put your citations in! Without any authority to back you up you invite everyone to make any sort of comment wise or foolish and to do so in the article itself! Shortly after the article becomes a target then a total mess and that seem to be what is happening here. It is my fault. I should have put the citations in and I have said this in other articles I have had to fix and I am saying this now. I'm a convinced man. Nothing recent of mine lacks citations, and I make sure they are in the right format; not only that, but I go around fixing the sloppy citations of others.

Trilobite has got me back here by a clever ruse. He sent me a message saying he thought some insertions of mine were brilliant and I should take a look at his discussion on it. I get back here and he has provoking things to say about neo-Olduwan. He doesn't think I am brilliant at all! You lied, Trilobitealive! Are you trying to provoke me? But I forgive you. It is after all my fault.

But still, my dear man, you went to a lot of trouble to hook me back here. Why? Did you want to talk to me? Did you want me to fix the article? What did you step into the wilderness to see, anyway? What am I supposed to do? How did you hope I would react? Are you looking for approval or disapproval? Do you want my opinion? What?

Since I am back here I will give it. First of all the article needs to be worked through again this time putting in the in-line citations. Just because I left them out does not mean I made it up. And, the format is terrible at the moment. Right now it is a formidable task. Whoever does it must go through it line by line. And another thing, when I did this there were less than 1 mill articles on Wikipedia and almost no anthropology. Today I find a host of ready articles on every supporting concept I can think of so all I have to do is link. This article might be shortened by finding the new articles and putting in the links. There are over 2 mill articles now so more and more the job is getting to be clean-up and detailing rather than creation from scratch. Third, I see there are many concept questions. Should the name be Olduwan or Oldowan? Who is telling the truth, me who did not put in citations, or the fellow who is loudly demanding the name be changed now? I don't see anyone stepping up to change it! So issues like this need to be revisited. And, regarding the name, don't believe him when he says Olduwan is not is use at all. It is in use. That is why we need citations. I dare say since Google Books got going we now have access to books we couldn't even think about getting last year, thanks to the generosity, the total magnanimity and concern for the common good, of Harvard University, who is having Google photocopy their books for public access! And others are doing it too.

So that is what needs to be done, but who is going to do it? I would say, if you don't believe in footnotes and you don't enjoy research, don't even bother. We need a detailer. And, it is going to take you a while. It took me a while to get that much and I see now it is probably too much. Perhaps it should be broken up. As to whether I should do it - well, you can't get me right now. I don't feel like it. I'm going to reflect for a while and maybe do some simpler anthropology articles and then when I think I have a better feel take a good look, when the moment seems right. If I'm still the only working editor on it then I guess I will have to undertake it.

And now for you, Mr. trilobite. Is that satire? No I never meant it as satire and to tell you the truth I cannot see how you or anyone would interpret that as such. All across the country universities and experts by the hundreds are chipping out these tools. Are they Olduwan? What do we call them? In a few decades they are going to be mistaken for ancient ones, mark my words, perhaps already are. Forgers are getting so good now that forgeries often do not get discovered for decades and then only with difficulty. In this article I was pointing out the existence of such a class of art! It is not deliberate forgery but it is forgery and in the wrong hands can be sold as genuine. So it is not a satirical issue.

As for your sarcasm- for that is what it is - you must mean you think the statement is the opposite of brilliant. Well unless you change your mind we seem to be having a genuine disagreement. I still fail to see why you drag me back in to tell me that. You or any editor can change anything you like; you just have to make it stick. Is it my approval you want or my anger? I'm afraid you are on your own here. If you are a new editor you have to realize you are an agent, an active force, like the wind or the water. Edit like the wind, amigo!

I'm going now, but I have spoken on this article. Trouble me no further with it. Work it out among yourselves, do the research, add the citations, use your talents, do what you're good at. When I come back whenever that is, when the feeling is right, if you still have done nothing with it, and I have to rework it, then I will do so authoritatively with the full critical apparatus and will not permit any more of this nonsense to go on outside of Wikipedia channels.Dave 04:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Thank you. It wasn't sarcasm. If the references to neo-olduwan had been a satire they would have been brilliant, though still not appropriate. I would classify neologism as 'original research' or 'unsubstantiated opinion' so will delete it. Regards.Trilobitealive 03:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If I have mistaken you I am sorry. I'm still gunshy from my encounter with Homo sapiens, which classified man as a great ape without references and not only ignored the uproar but arbitrarily deleted any attempts to flag or fix it. The deleters used their authority as being on the committee for the topic. In that case thank you for calling me brilliant. Flattery will get you everywhere. I never thought about whether it was original but then I was not thinking about line-by-line documentation. I can see why you are deleting it. I am sure that careful research can turn up that opinion in someone else's writing but as I am not working on this article now it will have to wait. My thinking on the article was simply definition. How did the concept originate, what are the tools, where and when were they manufactured, who used them and why? So even if someone proposed to delete the whole article as unsourced the next article would have to include the same topics and deal with the same issues and probably would end up saying about the same thing. Why bother? We have collected the opinions and critiques of others on this article. Why reinvent the wheel and ask them to do it again? But I have certain areas I want to cover and I keep changing areas so right now I am on other neglected things. If you like anthropology and want to see a nice, informative article, I suggest you take a hand at improvement. The critical apparatus is now critical. All through Wikipedia I see wonderful articles without line-item notes being tagged for that. You can find book- and journal-citing templates in the Wikipedia help under templates. I keep a few links to the help at my site. There is cite book, cite journal, cite web Citation and the like which once you can remember the parameters prove very useful and achieve a standard format. I grow windy but give me the freedom to discuss above all. Good luck.Dave 11:42, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually I just stumbled on it. I don't edit much since I had a major run-in with a predatory editor of another subject who seeks to establish her fringe POV as NPOV on a key issue of political importance. Sorry about the edit but I would have saved it if I could have found any other reference which wasn't self referential.Trilobitealive 02:53, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Pyroculture is a neologism
Word appears in this article. Appears to be a very rare word. No other occurrence in Wikipedia. Just 29 hits on Google, most of these involve Oregon, and the author of those pages confesses he coined pyroculture as a neologism. MaxEnt (talk) 03:22, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's pretty compelling reason to change to a more transparent word. I changed the wording to make the article easier for general readers to understand. RegardsTrilobitealive (talk) 05:42, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Cute chimp photos
The photos of young chimpanzees are cute, especially the one playing with the manual typewriter. (HE kind of reminds me of my 9th grade English teacher.) The group photo from the wildlife sanctuary is rather pitiful once you realize it is a pack of babies orphaned by poachers. But what do they have to do with the subject matter of the article? Chimps can learn to mimic very simple tool use (nut cracking and termite fishing come to mind) but you don't see them setting up Oldowan chopper factories. Regards.Trilobitealive (talk) 05:37, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
 * At this point I'm going to recommend that three pictures be removed as not related to the subject. These are the photo of the baby chimp playing with the typewriter, the row of zoo baboons and the group of rescued baby chimps.Trilobitealive (talk) 03:35, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the photos today. They are not related to the subject and detract from the article.Trilobitealive (talk) 21:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup and expert help needed
I don't have time to do a cleanup of this article at this time as it would involve a good bit of rewriting and chasing down references. What I see as its problems are that it doesn't have sufficient references for most of its statements of fact, has unsubstantiated opinion, some sections are written in the style of an undergraduate term paper and the reflist is full of what appears to be just continuation of the article. Probably it is best to find someone who's conversant in both the style of wikipedia writing and expert in the subject.Trilobitealive (talk) 21:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

European sites
Some of the sites listed in Europe are now thought by the majority of practitioners not to represent residues of human activities, but to consist mostly of geofacts selected from river gravels. This is for example the case with the early artefacts from Karlich, Prezletice, Stranska Skala and Le Vallonet. For other sites, the dates have been revised upwards. Dates of 5 mya. are simply not tenable. All the sites that are said to date to this time on the page should actually be dated to the early Pleistocene, so they are all certainly younger than 2 mya. The dating of the french sites is also incorrect. The date of Abbeville is far too old, as far as I know it is from the Middle Pleistocene, so younger than 700.000 years old.

I suggest that at least the German and Chzechoslovakian sites are removed from this page. The section on French sites might be rewritten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keilmesser (talk • --Keilmesser (talk) 12:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC)contribs) 12:30, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

See for a discussion on these sites: Roebroeks, W./T. van Kolfschoten, 1994: The earliest occupation of Europe: A short chronology, Antiquity, 68: 489-503--Keilmesser (talk) 12:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup: removed this section pending citations
As this disagrees with the citations I have on hand, I'd like to see the citation for this sentence: Oldowan tools are not necessarily cores, pebbles, or bifaces, and comprise more than hand-axes; moreover, those terms could apply equally to Acheulean tools, whereas "Oldowan" is more specific.

The terms are still in use (Johanson, who is on a lecture tour with 13 other biological anthropologists) still uses them. I've never heard anyone suggest that there were handaxes in the Olduwan toolkit (and most textbooks still spell it OldUwan, since it's named after OldUvai Gorge).Levalley (talk) 22:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

This article seems to have serious errors
I teach a class on this topic, and keep up with the field. The citations I have on hand and the recent articles on finds in Ethiopia seem to contradict much of what this article says. Tool use for australopithecines? I want to see the cites. I'm off to investigate this (may have a chance to ask some people who are prominent in the field, next week), but it seems to me that articles like this one: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/11/031105065322.htm  flatly contradict what is said in this article (insofar as no australopiths are mentioned.). Either say the toolmaker is unknown (there were no fossil bones found nearby) or go with what most people say in their texts: Homo habilis is the toolmaker. Also, clear up what's actually in this toolkit and give a better rationale for the spelling change.Levalley (talk) 22:39, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

There is a serious mis-referencing of the Clark et al. article. It does NOT say that Oldowan tools were used by Homo erectus (or egaster), but that in the lower levels of a cite that in the upper levels contained H.E. bones, Oldowan tools were found. (As expected). No bones of any hominid species were clearly associated at that Awash cite with the Oldowan tools. Read the article, it's quite clear. That's why the article is titled Oldowan AND Homo tools. There are two different groups of tools found. The "homo" set of tools is distinct from the Oldowan. The current article also misses another major point, which is that, when the Acheulian arrived, people didn't just give up their basic tools. To get into the whole thing about Mode One of the Acheulian (further technical nomenclature) before resolving the simplest issues about the toolkit is to put hte cart before the horse. I'd like to see that there is plain understanding of what the Oldowan is, as it is usually described. Levalley (talk) 22:48, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Oldowan vs. Olduwan. A cursory exploration of JSTOR reveals both in use. I found lots of citations from 1960s through 1990s using OldUwan.Levalley (talk) 23:01, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Recommendation: Use various articles from the 80s through 00s reassessing what Olduwan/Oldowan means, and the general importance of the term in archaeology. Avoid overly specific articles on detailed excavations of the Olduwan at one archaeological site. Go for an overview.Levalley (talk) 23:04, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right, it ain't too good. I did some minimal work on it, of which I am not too proud. But, it has never been in good shape. There's never been a unified and accurate article here. I didn't have the patience so I just left it, but there have been a few developments since then. First of all, more people have turned their hand to the stone age on WP and second of all there has been a run of good books from the last few years, which there was not before, which are mainly accessible between Google and Amazon. Or, you can get them in the library systems. Here is what I propose. Except for the founders of the concepts, I propose we junk everything from the '70's and '80's and before. Most of it has been outdated. The issues are not the issues of today. I would not trust any books before, say, 1996, except, as I say, the founding fathers of the main concepts. It needs a major rewrite with proper references to the current books. YOU are the most qualified to do that. I know, this is where you back off. You don't have the time. I don't either. Moreover, the constant carping turns off people who might have the time. I do have a little time, but I've changed my mode. Instead of going for the scatter gun I'm going to aim at one article at a time. I'm not on this right now but I probably will be. Don't wait for me. Dig in. The discussion is right, someone in the field and cognizant of WP structures should do it, but where are they to be found? If you're in the field you don't have time or patience for this, and if you're on WP you don't know your front from your back and are only interested in stable articles written by administrators. Oh by the way, you are right, there are far too many sites for the complex for this article to consider them all. That was my idea, but it was ill-advised. I didn't know what to do so I left it. My tendency now would be to include only sites of major evidence and offload those with "main." Thank you for your evaluation. I got a certain toleration for nagging if you care to involve yourself further. I evaluate your credibility by the maturity of what you say. OK so far. I've had screaming, confrontational administrators at the teen-age level claiming to be PhD's and how dare, how DARE I question that. What can I say. Nothing further I guess. So don't wave your credentials around, wave your knowledge around. I look forward to being corrected by you if and when it happens as I plan.Dave (talk) 04:31, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Acheulian equivocation
I am a reasonably educated person, and the old paragraph was thoroughly confusing. I think that the few sentences I copied from the article on Abbevillain are all that are needed here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Werseuch (talk • contribs) 07:45, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal
The stub article for Chopper (archaeology) could easily, and usefully be merged into this more sophisticated discussion of the Oldowan. Their rare appearance in later stone tool assemblages is never diagnostic and therefore a fairly moot point. PatHadley (talk) 16:42, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
 * A chopper is a major tool in prehistoric technology, and it's own article is likely as important as having articles on any other form of prehistoric tool. And since this hasn't been discussed since last August, and then only by the editor suggesting the merge, I'll remove the merger request template from the page for now. Randy Kryn 17:58 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Controlling fire Image

 * Really? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.221.71.160 (talk) 00:07, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with it? I found the file on the article for fire and since I couldn't find any other image on Wikipedia of humans making fire I decided to go with this one. 104.35.41.35 (talk) 04:13, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Not the oldest anymore
"is the archaeological term used to refer to the earliest stone tool archaeological industry in prehistory."

Lomekwi is now the oldest

Kate Wong (April 15, 2015). "Archaeologists Take Wrong Turn, Find World’s Oldest Stone Tools". Scientific American. Retrieved April 18, 2015.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Oldowan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20160106134303/http://www.hf.uio.no/iakh/forskning/sarc/iakh/lithic/sarc.html to http://www.hf.uio.no/iakh/forskning/sarc/iakh/lithic/sarc.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at Sourcecheck).

Cheers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyberbot II (talk • contribs) 10:28, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Elsewhere Subsection
We are thinking of removing the Elsewhere subsection entirely, as it does add much to the overall article. There is a lack of information on the cites mentioned in the sections. What evidence there is for the cite is minimal and controversial at best, the time frame for these discoveries also do not mesh well with the agreed-upon time frame of 2.6 mya - 1.7 mya. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyle Rinehimer (talk • contribs) 21:51, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Asia Section Modification
I intend to expand the Asia section and modify it's organization to include a sub-sections for China,Iran,and Pakistan. I also intend to add citations for the information already mentioned. The Cheeze It (talk) 22:11, 9 November 2019 (UTC)The Cheese It

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:55, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
 * A.afarensis.jpg

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Tools and tool users
Howdy,

I'm looking to seek citations for the Tools and tool users subcategories of the entry. What would be the best advice you can offer me regarding my research on the specifics of tool types and original users? What details can make these sections more complete regarding sources? Thank you. H3R05 D1A2 (Hydra) (talk) 04:11, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Section: Oldowan tool manufacturing
Howdy Again,

I'm looking into finding and adding a source or two in the Manufacture section, as there isn't one. What should I be looking for, and what do you all recommend me to do for this edit? Thank you. H3R05 D1A2 (Hydra) (talk) 06:04, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

 * This statement in the text:
 * "Early Homo erectus appears to inherit Oldowan technology and refines it into the Acheulean industry beginning 1.7 million years ago."
 * ... is 'supported' by citation 16, an article on nutrition! Surely there is a better source than that?! 201.244.41.18 (talk) 16:42, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Oldowan