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User:Deanos/temp

Mount Arapiles is a rock formation that rises 369 metres above the Wimmera plains in western Victoria, Australia. Arapiles is part of the Mount Arapiles-Tooan State Park and is a very popular destination for rock climbers. Due to the quantity and quality of climbs, it is one of the premier climbing sites in Australia, along with the nearby Grampians. The aboriginal name for Arapiles is Djurite.

Early history
A clan of aborigines known as the Djurid Balug inhabited the nearby area for thousands of years prior to the European colonisation of Australia. They used the mountain's hard sandstone for making various stone tools, and found shelter in its many gullies and small caves. Following Eurpoean settlement in the mid 1840s, the Djurid Balud were displaced from the area, leading to the breaking up of the clan. The loss of the resources that the mountain provided, the ravages of Eurpoean disease, and armed clashes with the settlers were all contributing factors. By the early 1870s, the last of the Djurid Balud had been relocated to mission stations. Some of their descendents still live in the area and there are also a number of archaeological sites nearby. Indeed, a survey of Mount Arapiles in 1992 located no less than 42 Aboriginal archaelogical sites, including "quarries" for hard stone for implements, scarred trees and rock art sites.

The European colonisation of Australia also brought with it many explorers to chart the new lands. The first recorded ascent of Arapiles was on 23 July 1836, by its European discoverer, Major Thomas Mitchell. He named the landmark after the Arapiles hills near Salamanca, Spain, which is where the Battle of Salamanca took place (in which Mitchell had seen action).

An extract from Mitchell's diary on 22 July reads: "'This certainly was a remarkable portion of the earth's suface, and rather resembled that of the moon as seen through a telecope.'"

There is a plaque commemorating his contributions to Arapiles on the aptly named "Plaque Rock", which is close to the current campgrounds.

Modern History

 * Note: the modern history of Mount Arapiles is covered in greater detail in many of the works listed in the References section.

Arapiles was first considered for climbing in a recreational manner in September 1963, when Bob and Steve Craddock travelled to Mitre Rock after seeing it in a tourist guide, and saw that their destination was dwarfed by Mount Arapiles. It was a number of weeks and visits before climbing was actually attempted at Arapiles, with the first climbs being recorded in November 1963 on what is now called "The Pinnacle Face". The pioneering group, consisting of the Craddocks, Doug Angus, Peter Jackson, and Greg Lovejoy split into two parties, with each party claiming a route on the same day. Many more climbs were put up in the following days and weeks, including the three-starred classic Tiptoe Ridge (5), and in 1964 the Craddock brothers produced the first Arapiles climbing guidebook (featuring 15 routes).

March 1965 saw the establishment of two significant climbs: The Bard (12) and Watchtower Crack (16). These climbs were done on the same day and are still regarded as three-star climbs, often seeing numerous ascents per day. Activity steadily increased at Arapiles and in August 1966, Mike Stone and Ian Speedie released the second guidebook, Mt Arapiles. It was the first hardcover guide in Australia and featured 108 climbs. The rest of the 60s saw many more new routes put up of increasing difficulty, with many including numerous aid points. The climbing community was not concerned as the focus was on "getting up the climb... and staying alive", whether free climbing or not.

The early 70s saw a lull in activity at Arapiles as attention shifted to the Grampians and Mount Buffalo. Interest in Arapiles resurfaced in late 1973 with many imposing routes being sent with few aids. These routes brought a sense of accomplishment to the climbing community as new grades were continually being created. In the mid 70s, American visitor "Hot" Henry Barber arrived and began freeing these routes with minimal protection. The 21-year-old made a significant impact at Arapiles, and his visit was a pivotal point in Australian climbing, as climbers worked on freeing their new lines instead of being content leaving in aid points.

Word of Barber’s achievements spread and attracted a number of new young climbers to Arapiles. This group was later given the name "The New Wave" and throughout the rest of the 70s and early 80s they were responsible for scores of routes in the grade 20–25 range. The likes of Kim Carrigan, Mike Law and Mark Moorhead helped introduce a number of 26+ climbs. In 1983, Carrigan established Masada (29) after an extensive siege (hence the name of the climb), which was the most difficult climb in the country at the time.

German climber Wolfgang Güllich's ascent of Punks in the Gym in April 1985 was major achievement, giving Arapiles international exposure and setting a new benchmark for difficulty. At the time it was graded 32, and was the hardest climb in the world, though it is now graded at 31 due to a chipped edge. Following Güllich's triumph, a number of routes of similar difficulty were put up, bringing the number of 30+ routes to nine. The most difficult of these is the work of Dave Jones, and combines the crux of Punks in the Gym with that of Pretty in Punk (31). The resultant climb, Punks Addiction goes at grade 32.

Quality new routes are still occasionally put up today, though the popularity of sport climbing has somewhat diminished the development at Arapiles in recent times. Arapiles is still a popular climbing destination, with some visitors staying for months at a time. The warm weather, accessibility, quantity and quality of climbs have helped to maintain the popularity of Arapiles with locals, Australians and international travellers alike.

Geology
Mount Arapiles is primarily composed of quartzite, a metamorphic rock that was originally sandstone. Tectonic compression subjected the rock to intense heating and pressure, fusing the original quartz sand grains and quartz silica cement fused into one mineral. There is a distinct red/orange tinge that is due to trace amounts of iron oxide and various other impurities.

Flora
Arapiles and its immediate vincinity are home to approximately 14% of the State's flora species, with wildflowers being particularly prominent in spring.

Fauna
The Shingleback lizard (also known as the Stumpytail) is commonly seen in the Park during spring, summer and autumn. This slow moving and sleepy reptile feeds on insects, flowers and fruit and is quite harmless to humans.

There are many kangaroos inhabiting the bush around Arapiles. In order to preserve their habitat, many intermediate tracks have been closed to allow regroth of the foliage. Now only the main tracks are used, especially close to the campgrounds.

The Peregrine Falcon, found worldwide, can often be seen around Mount Arapiles. It is one of the swiftest and deadliest birds of prey in the world, but has suffered heavily from the effects of insecticides. As a result, it is considered threatened in Victoria. Like all other plants and animals in the park, the Peregrine Falcon is fully protected. Occasionally, a pair of falcons will nest at Arapiles, and climbers usually notify the park ranger (and each other) should they be close to climbing areas.

Facilities
There are a number of camping grounds at Arapiles; the Centenary Park Campground (known as "The Pines"), the Yellow Gums (known as "The Gums"), and the North Campground. The Pines is open all year round and is by far the most popular site. It has a number of fireplaces for free use, though wood must be sourced from outside the State Park. The Gums is often used by school groups on weekend trips and has camping at peak times only, while the North Campground sees frequent use by tourists.

The park is run by the stage government funded Parks Victoria and is serviced by a toilet block, rain water tank and dish-washing facilities. There is also bore water available, though Parks Victoria advises campers to bring their own as water may not always be available, especially during the harsh, dry summers. The campsite is essentially permanently occupied by climbers, who are subjected to a fee of $2 per night (payable by an honesty system). The fees help in the maintaining of the park.

There are a number of satellite car parks around the mountain that allow for easier access to a number of areas that some might consider to be a considerable walking distance. Such car parks exist at Bushranger Bluff, Declaration Crag, and nearby Mitre Rock. There is also room for parking along the northern access road to the park near "The Pharos" and the "Watchtower Faces" climbing areas. There are two car parks in the summit area, which are used by tourists and climbers alike. The summit car parks are especially useful when accessing the northern climbing areas, provided safer access routes from above. There is a picnic shelter for day visitors, as well as a public telephone, and an information board. The board briefly documents the history of the area with history, provides information on the activities available in the area, and gives advice on the local flora, fauna. A Telstra repeater tower provides mobile phone coverage, though one must walk a few hundred metres down from the campground to the road for adequate reception.

Climbing
Although there are many hiking routes to the top (including one resembling a via ferrata), most ascentionists choose to free climb one of the thousands of vertical routes on the mountain. Since the advent of modern rock climbing, thousands of routes have been recorded.

Philosophy
Mount Arapiles is regarded as a traditional climbing area – where climbers are (usually) expected to place their own protection, and remove it after climbing. The vast majority of climbs are therefore done using passive removable protection such as nuts, cams and hexes. There are a few isolated sport climbs, but these tend to be in the higher grades and exist only where natural protection is either impractical or not readily available. As a result, some climbs may involve a mixture of clipping bolts and placing gear. In the past where climbers have placed bolts in inappropriate places they have been removed. However, despite these attitudes, Arapiles does cater somewhat for sport climbing, with the sport climbing area "Henry Bolte Wall" being developed in the 80s. Chipping the rock to 'improve' holds is regarded as vandalism and is not tolerated.

Climbing Areas

 * For a more detailed treatment of this subject, refer to the works listed in the References and External Links sections.

The following is a list of the more notable climbing areas at Arapiles, including famous climbs.

 * Declaration Crag and Bushranger Bluff
 * Popular with beginners and school groups, due to the number of easier climbs and secluded location.

 * The Atridae
 * Home of the "Flight Deck", a collection of more difficult climbs viewable from The Pines.

 * The Organ Pipes
 * Popular with beginners, school groups and regulars; due to the plentiful amount of classics and its closeness to the campgrounds.

 * Bard Buttress and Tiger Wall
 * Bard Buttress is a large pillar adjacent to Tiger Wall, which the most dominating feature of Arapiles to the passing observer. It features many multi-pitch classics and the longest climbs at Arapiles.

 * The Bluffs
 * These two great blocks rest atop Tiger Wall and offer many classic lines that end in a satisfying peak bagging experience.

 * Castle Crag
 * A small free standing rock opposite Tiger Wall; Castle Crag is a heavily concentrated area of climbing in the grade 20–26 range.

 * The Pharos
 * Named after the Lighthouse of Alexandria, it is large pillar of rock isolated from the main mountain. It features Punks Wall; home of Punks in the Gym (31), once the most difficult climb in the world; and the Back Wall, which has a small collection of more difficult classics.

 * The Pinnacle Face
 * Home of the first recorded climbs at Arapiles, and also to Tiptoe Ridge (5), a classic multi-pitch adventure.

 * The Watchtower Faces
 * The left and right faces are water-streaked slabs that straddle the Watchtower itself, which is a rough buttress that has separated from the mountain. Watchtower Crack (16) is an imposing line that follows the crack between the Watchtower and the Right Face.

 * The Northern Group
 * There a number of notable cliffs are in this area; including Henry Bolte Wall, a sport climbing area; and Kachoong Cliffs, which features Kachoong (21), a famous overhanging roof.

 * Mitre Rock
 * An isolated outcrop to the north of Arapiles, it has many excellent easier routes and is a popular day trip area.

Bouldering
There are a number of bouldering areas sprinkled around Arapiles that cater for all abilities. Two areas that are close to camp are the Krondorf Area and the Golden Streak Area. They are often populated in the late afternoon and early evening after the day's climbing has been done.

title: User:Deanos/temp


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User talk:Alphax/20051007-01

My talk page
Please don't revert things without checking them first. Thanks, Alphax τεχ 06:15, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It was an edit by banned user skyring, they're freely revertable. If you prefer I don't revert anything on your talk page in future I'd be happy to oblige though. --fvw *  06:17, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't blame you for what you are trying to do, but I do find fault in your methods. Molotov (talk) [[Image:Flag of California.png|25px]] 06:18, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer it if you don't, I prefer to leave comments in place (even when they blank my talk page in doing so). Alphax τεχ 06:23, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok, sure. If I could ask for a favour in return, could you not shared-threadify my talk page? I'll agree it has its charm, but it does sort of stop edit histories and archiving from working properly, not to mention the new message banner. I reply to people's talk on their talk page usually anyway, so if you make a shared thread there it'll end up in your shared threads too if you want. --fvw *  06:28, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Alrighty then. Alphax τεχ 10:50, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Alphax/20051007-01


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Talk:Hermione Cobbold, Baroness Cobbold

'Mistress of Churchill' claim
She isn't even in the index of the Roy Jenkins biography of Churchill. CalJW 06:23, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree. The original claim appeared in a very scrappy contribution from some unregistered user.  I think it's a mistake.  I haven't exhausted Google's possibilities, but I can't find any reference to this.  Also, he apparently held Hermione's mother, Pamela Plowden, in very high regard.  Surely, for him to conduct an affair with the daughter of a women he had once proposed to would have been extremely scandalous?  Not to say it couldn't happen, but I think we need a source.  Therfore, I'm removing the claim that Hermione was 'former mistress of Winston Churchill' for the present, as well as the 'uncited sources' tag.  If anyone can source this, do please restore the information. Crosbiesmith 13:37, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

I have reformatted to fit Manual of Styleand corrected title errorsAlci12 09:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hermione Cobbold, Baroness Cobbold


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Christopher Hall (sculptor)

Christopher Hall is a British sculptor, born in 1942 in Nottingham, England, and now living in Scotland.

He attended Loughborough College of Art, as well as Edinburgh College of Art, where he studied sculpture under Eric Schilsky.

Some of Hall's major public works include:
 * cloister carvings at Iona Abbey (1967–1997)
 * gravestone of John Smith, Labour Party leader, Iona (1994)
 * Eye of the Beholder (sandstone, 1998), Borders General Hospital, Melrose, Scotland
 * The Dreamer (sandstone, 1998), memorial to Dr Winifred Rushforth at the University of Edinburgh, dedicated by Prince Charles in 2002
 * Holy Trinity Carving (Doddington sandstone, 2000), Trinity Church, Embleton, Northumberland;
 * Wildlife of the Tyne (Doddington sandstone, 2002), Tyne Court, Haddington, East Lothian
 * The Fishers of Fisherrow (Doddington sandstone, 2002), Murdoch Green, Musselburgh, East Lothian
 * stone boat at the late Ian Hamilton Finlay's garden, Little Sparta, in West Lothian

title: Christopher Hall (sculptor)


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Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland

Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland (もぎたてチンクルのばら色ルッピーランド) is an adventure video game developed by Vanpool and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo DS handheld game console. It was released in Japan in September 2006, and in Europe in September 2007.

Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland stars Tingle, a character who has appeared in several games in The Legend of Zelda series starting from Majora's Mask for the Nintendo 64. It was commercially successful in Japan, selling 234,862 units by the end of 2007.

Gameplay
The objective of Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland is to continually build up a tower found under a spring to the west of Tingle's house. To do this, the player must feed Rupees into the tower. Subsequent gameplay is built upon finding as much money as possible, but also mixed with traditional The Legend of Zelda dungeon adventuring and puzzle elements. Among this, however, is a shallow bargaining system for interacting with non-player characters (NPCs), as items and information must be bought via offering what the player thinks is a suitable price. If the price is too low, the player may not receive anything, but if the price offered is too high they may be needlessly spending too much.

Dungeons within Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland are found on each of the game's three continents, and are a necessity to complete the game. By completing a dungeon, the player receives what are typically the biggest Rupee rewards and by defeating the end-of-dungeon bosses they receive one of five gems. Even if the player has successfully built the tower to its tallest height, they must have collected all the gems to access the final location. Accessing these dungeons is limited by the height of the tower, as certain areas can only be accessed once the tower is a certain height, and thus after the player has donated enough Rupees into it.

Tingle can collect items along his journey, selling them later for profit or using them to aid support characters or other NPCs. Items can be mixed together to create different variations. These are made via the boiling pot in Tingle's home, where the player uses the stylus to stir the mixture. Other items can be used to decorate the top floor of Tingle's house, and completing the game allows the player to change Tingle's clothing.

Whenever the player enters a new location within Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland, the player will receive an incomplete map. By filling in and completing the map, via circling (with the stylus) points of interest which are not shown on it, the player can then show the map to an old woman in the nearby port town and receive a fixed sum of money. By selling the completed map, however, the player loses access to the map until they buy it back from the woman.

Although completing dungeons can be likened to that in The Legend of Zelda series, the combat is very different. Instead of having a large amount of direct input into the battles, within Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland the player engages an enemy, at which point both Tingle and the enemy character turn into a ball of dust as they fight. Then the player can either tap the screen to rally support for Tingle, or use the buttons to move the fight around the screen.

Although Tingle's Rupee count depletes as he fights with an enemy, successfully defeating one results in receiving Rupees and rare items. By engaging multiple enemies in battles by moving the dust cloud over them, the amount of rewards multiply, though Tingle loses more Rupees early on in the battle.

Furthermore, to assist Tingle in battles, the player can acquire bodyguards as support characters to help him in combat and dungeons. Bodyguards are found in "Bodyguard Salons", there are thirty of these characters in all, and they must be bargained with for them to help. These characters come in small, medium and large sizes, reflecting their combat abilities.

Plot
Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland features three continents divided into eleven islands. Each island is themed differently and sometimes contains its own dungeon or else it has a central puzzle the player must complete.

The game follows an alone and lazy 35-year-old man's transformation into his green-clothed fairy persona. The story starts when one day a voice calls the main character (whose name is chosen by the player) from his home to a spring west of his house. There, Uncle Rupee, an old man with a Rupee-shaped head, appears and offers him a life in a paradise called Rupeeland if he continues to feed Rupees to the Western Pool: if enough Rupees are fed, the tower found under the pool will grow upwards towards the sky, and Tingle will be able to enter Rupeeland. He accepts the offer and Uncle Rupee transforms him so that Rupees become his source of life: in fact, if unfortunately he loses all the rupees without preserving even one, he will die; moreover, Uncle Rupee gives him the name "Tingle", making him forget his own.

As Tingle builds the tower and explores the various lands defeating enemies and bosses, it becomes increasingly clear that Uncle Rupee is motivated by a purely greedy and selfish intent, is appropriating all the money collected by Tingle and wants to have total domination on Rupeeland. After Tingle completes the last task, Uncle Rupee, now completely addicted to the power of the rupees and furious that Tingle won't give them to him anymore, engages in a fight against him.

After defeating Uncle Rupee there are two possible endings, and they depend on whether or not Tingle has collected all the Rupee Goods scattered across the various lands:
 * Bad ending: Tingle finds all the Rupee Goods and goes to Rupeeland, where he begins to live in the wildest luxury and idleness, becoming incredibly greedy and therefore not so different from Uncle Rupee.
 * Good ending: Tingle doesn't finds all the Rupee Goods. Peace finally returns to the world and Tingle returns to his former life. Also, rupees start raining from the sky to the happiness of the people who collect them.

Development
Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland was announced in October 2005 under the title Tingle RPG. It was later released on September 2, 2006 in Japan, North America on April 10, 2007, and in Europe on September 14, 2007.

Reception
Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland has received mostly positive reviews from the few outlets which have reviewed it. Official Nintendo Magazine gave the game a score of 76%, praising the game's uniqueness, humour and "fantastically stylised graphics", but criticizing it for dull dungeon design and a poor battle system. Nintendo Life praised the game as well, noting the boss battles in particular to be surprising and exciting, though they noted that the game can start to wear after a while, as some aspects were "repetitive and/or annoying".

In its first week of release, it sold more than 45,000 units in Japan. It was the 57th best-selling game of 2006 in Japan, selling 207,525 units. It was the 478th best-selling game of 2007, selling 21,295 units in that year for a total of 234,862 units as of 2007. IGN ranked the cover art the scariest cover art in gaming.

Legacy
Super Smash Bros. Brawl includes stickers based on artwork from the game, and the game itself is referenced in Tingle's trophy description. However, the game is referred to as "Tingle's Rupeeland". A sequel, Irodzuki Tingle no Koi no Balloon Trip, was released for the Nintendo DS in Japan.

title: Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland


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Gidgee

Gidgee may refer to any of a number of species of Acacia native to arid or semi-arid regions of Australia, or to the vegetation communities in which these species dominate:

 * Most commonly Acacia cambagei
 * Acacia argyrodendron, commonly known as "Black Gidgee"
 * Acacia anastema, commonly known as "Sanddune dometrius" or just "Gidgee"
 * Acacia crombiei, commonly known as pink gidgee.
 * Acacia pruinocarpa, commonly known as "Gidgee" or "Black Gidgee"
 * Acacia subtessarogona, commonly known as "Spreading Gidgee"
 * Acacia georginae, commonly known as "Georgina Gidgee"

Other uses

 * Gidgee Gold Mine, a gold mine in Western Australia

title: Gidgee


text: User talk:61.145.141.140

title: User talk:61.145.141.140


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Talk:Snowbelt

Untitled
could use a map like the other belt pages

-Shouldn't "Snow Belt" be two words as well? Pumpkingrrl 15:51, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Is this and Frost Belt the same thing? --75.72.161.204 01:17, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

"Deep North"??
I removed the unsupported allusion to "Deep North" as I could not find a single use of that expression as used in this article. The person who added it to the article has added other questionable alternate names and nicknames without citation from reliable sources. 147.70.242.40 17:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Map
The current map shows only the OH, PA, and NY sections of the Snowbelt. The article includes several other areas in IN, MI, WI and Canada that receive lake effect snow. The map should include those areas as well. BobDively 18:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Overhaul Needed!
This article is poorly written, sourced and has a lack of matching graphics's/visuals. It needs a major overhaul and some proper structuring using headings and sub-heads. I will do my best to bring it up to par with other articles of a similar nature. For one, Canada is largely forgotten in the article even though it has a significant number of snow belts. Secondly, this article should be strongly tied into lake effect snow since that is the major driving force for these snow belt regions. Third, there is virtually no systematic order within the article dealing with lakes or regions. Also highly localized ideas such as that of ski country are used. (Theonlysilentbob (talk) 17:27, 24 August 2008 (UTC))

A snowbelt vs. The Snowbelt
This page probably ought to be two separate pages: a) snowbelt, an area that receives significant lake-effect-type snow and which could include areas in Japan, Russia, Europe, etc.; and b) The Snowbelt - the region that Americans and Canadians associate with the areas downwind of the Great Lakes. BobDively (talk) 21:58, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

 * This article is only about the region in North America, while lake-effect snow is the general article about the weather phenomenon in all world regions. (Heroeswithmetaphors)   talk  03:23, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Trans Women of Color
This page does not show how the climate extremes in the snowbelt disproportionately affect Trans Women of Color. Please fix. 12.160.25.154 (talk) 12:09, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Possible Name Change
In order to address the current marker on the page on how US-centric this article is, I suggest adding a (North America) or (Great Lakes) to the name, so that the new name of the article would be Snowbelt (North America) or Snowbelt (Great Lakes). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Panian513 (talk • contribs) 15:41, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

The Frost Belt needs its own article, not re-direct
The Frost Belt is conceptually parallel to and contrasting with the Sun Belt. The Snow Belt and the Frost Belt are not equivalent. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 19:11, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Article is still USA-centric
I got onto this page from a link in the introduction to the, "Lake-effect snow," page, which lists a number of snowbelts in other areas of the world, and was confused to find myself being presented with a North American "local" article, on, "The Snowbelt," meaning, "The Snowbelt of the Great Lakes, North America."

The article on, "Lake Effect Snow," refers to "Snowbelts" as a phenomenon occurring in many places, not as a single region in North America. There is a lack of consistency both between this article and that link, and internally in this article, between the introduction and the other countries section.

If the article had a USA centric marker, I would argue that it really should not have been taken off. There is only a very short section on other countries which is not at all integrated into the article. The introduction only mentions the Great Lakes snowbelt in North America, and the information is arranged with everything except what deals with the North American Great Lakes Snowbelt as a short afterthought, rather than part of the article's real subject.

To rewrite this article with a truly international view would require:

1. rewriting the introduction to refer equally to all snowbelts, not just the ones around the Great Lakes in North America.

2. Altering the location information to refer to all mentioned snowbelts with a list of the countries or regions in alphabetical order, with the skiing industry information integrated into the relevant section. As geographical features do not stop at political borders, it might be most logical to arrange it by a list of the bodies of water that cause it, that is, "Baltic Sea Snowbelt," "Great Lakes Snowbelt," "Sea of Japan Snowbelt," rather than trying to do it by country.

I did consider trying to do this myself, but I do not know enough about either the subject or about accurately making the formatting changes required.

Alternatively, this article could be renamed with a location specifier (as suggested by Panian513), such as "Snowbelt, Great Lakes, North America," and separate articles started on other snowbelts, plus a summary-and-list-of-articles article.

In my opinion, this would probably be better as it is usually easier to add and find information on anything geographical in separate articles, and more attention is likely to be given to non-North American articles, than to international subsections of an article that includes a North American section, but it is a more complicated change.

I do not mean this to be critical. I may perfectly reasonably refer to the little river in my village as, "The river," when talking to another person in my village, and one North American may quite reasonably refer to the North American Great Lakes Snowbelt as, "The Snowbelt," when talking to another North American. A greater knowledge of things pertaining to our own cultures and nations is inevitable, and correctly altering references and assumptions for international reading is complicated, regardless of starting point!

FloweringOctopus (talk) 15:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Snowbelt


text: Category:United States senators from Rhode Island


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Densetsu no Stafy 4

Densetsu no Stafy 4 (伝説のスタフィー4) is a platform video game developed by Tose and published by Nintendo for the Nintendo DS. It is the fourth game in The Legendary Starfy series. As with the other games in the series, Densetsu no Stafy 4 features Stafy, known as Starfy in Western regions, as the main character. He is joined by his sister Starly and his friend Moe the clam. The three of them help out other undersea creatures and fights numerous villains.

It was also the first game to use the updated CERO rating system.

Plot
While Starfy and his family slept in the Pufftop Palace, a nearby land known as the Amy Kingdom was under attack. The heart-shaped Monamool Stone held there was stolen by an evil female snake named Degil. Mattel, a princess from Amy Castle, fled to seek Starfy's help. When Moe the clam saw Mattel and heard about her, he rushed toward Pufftop Palace, burst inside the front door, and told everyone that she would like to speak with them about the Amy Kingdom tragedy. Starfy dozed off, and Moe told him to listen, then Starly petted Moe and talked to him about his love, Ruby the zebra turkeyfish, while Starfy sat and played with his handheld game console that resembles the original Nintendo DS. Later, after their relaxation, Starfy, Starly and Moe went with Mattel to stop Degil and restore peace to the Amy Kingdom.

Gameplay
Gameplay in Densetsu no Stafy 4 is quite similar to the previous games in the series. New features were added in this game that make use of the Nintendo DS' advanced hardware. The visuals are still 2-D, albeit with completely redrawn sprites, while the backgrounds are 3-D. Densetsu no Stafy 4 takes advantage of the dual screens, using them to show both the main game and map of the level simultaneously, while it uses the touchscreen to play the bonus stages, scroll the map, interact in the title screen and navigate menus. Some costumes in the costume collections of Densetsu no Stafy 2 and Densetsu no Stafy 3 return in fully rendered 3-D, which allows the player to manipulate the 3D models of Starfy and Starly to see more of their costumes.

Development
In order to give fans a chance to contribute to the development of Densetsu no Stafy 4, Nintendo and Tose created a costume contest, and gave fans a picture of Starfy (in PDF format) to print, color, and send in. A picture of Starfy in a rocket suit was shown to the Starfy fans as an example on how to color over the coloring picture. The winning costumes also appear on the official Densetsu no Stafy 4 website. Most other artworks were featured in the first credits sequence of Densetsu no Stafy 4.

Reception
Densetsu no Stafy 4 was the fourth best-selling game in Japan during its week of release at 47,971 copies. Japanese sales totalled 167,136 copies during 2006. Famitsu scored the game a 33 out of 40 based on the opinions of four reviewers.

title: Densetsu no Stafy 4


text:
Talk:Co-option

untitled
Is Cooptation really related to Co-option at all? The former redirects here but I'm only familiar with its usage as in "the small minority's leadership was coopted by the government". (A cursory google search seems to confirm that this is the more predominant usage.) Should we move this latter definition to cooptation and leave a disambig note on each page to clarify that co-optation is sometimes spelled cooptation, or are the subjects closer related than this article currently seems to suggest? — Your server has been MC MasterChef  ::  Leave a tip — 06:26, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Disambiguation would be best. Be bold--MWAK 07:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Evolution POV
The dogmatic statement that fish evolved into reptiles, etc, is definitely POV. Mdotley 21:33, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

 * No, it is science. Should science be the sole ruler to decide what is NPOV regarding factual statements? Yes. Besides, the statement isn't dogmatic as it reflects empirical data.--MWAK 07:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Heh... Science is testable, observable, and repeatable. Evolution may be popular among scientists, but it's not science.  I'm happy to accept your modification. Mdotley 03:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Split
The Biology portion needs to be split off into it's own stub, I think. Otherwise, this really isn't a any more. Mdotley 21:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed the, since it isn't really an accurate description of this anymore. Mdotley 00:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Intelligence: Applications in Co-Opting
I am surprised there isn't a section on co-opting from a intelligence pov as it relates to complexity discourse.Twobells (talk) 22:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Cooption
Cooption redirecs here, but cooption without hypnation is a word that should go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaptation too. I don't know what to do about this, I don't have an account. I'm just a kid. Cooption is a pretty awesome word though: cOOption! 143.167.172.109 (talk) 01:12, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Semantic Cleanup
Prior text was stating that an arcane sense was the main one, although it in fact is unrelated to the well known sense. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 22:18, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup
Considering above comments about this essentially being a dictionary article, I tagged a few issues, created a DAB Co-option (disambiguation), decided there's two similar/related/same? organisational meanings so left those two as the article, moved all others to see also pending another editor coming along and agreeing and possibly removing see also (they are now covered by the DAB). As for this article, it needs to be decided if there are still two meanings left, or one. I put the stub back - please do not remove stubs without expanding. Widefox (talk) 11:09, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation required
There do appear to be two meanings, even in the political sense:
 * 1) to add members to an elected or appointed body at the discretion of members of the body (this is the sense which anyone who has ever sat on a committee will know)
 * 2) to subsume and assimilate a weaker group.

I've edited it to mean (1) primarily, since meaning (2) is an informal process which doesn't deserve much more than a dictionary definition. It could be disambiguated, but I don't have the skills or the knowledge to do so. I've edited the definitions on the existing disambiguation page, but clearly a new page would be needed for one or other meaning.

Otherwise:
 * We should not use "co-option" for one and "co-optation" for the other. This would be tantamount to writing our own definitions.  Co-optation is (I believe) an American variant cf. transport/transportation.

 * I am deeply unhappy with using Selznick's study of TVA as a model. On this showing TVA seems to have been a corrupt and unaccountable body which would clandestinely sell its influence to interested parties. The synopsis below may of course be inaccurate.  I've removed it here, less some laudatory adjectives.

[begins] In his study of the Tennessee Valley Authority, Philip Selznick defined co-option as “absorbing new elements into the leadership or policy-determining structure of an organization as a means of averting threats to its stability or existence”. He defined two ideal types: formal and informal. Formal co-option is publicly acknowledged, and done for two reasons: when legitimacy of organization or leadership is questioned by the governed or to create reliable channels for managerial communication and direction. Formal co-option generally does not involve sharing power with the co-opted, but instead shares the responsibility for power. Selznick defined informal co-option as a response to specific individuals or groups who command necessary resources which therefore resulted in the co-opted party receiving real influence. Public acknowledgment would undermine legitimacy of authority, so the organization may refrain from explicitly recognizing this informal relationship. [ends]

It is not clear that Selznick's conclusions necessarily apply outside the TVA and similar organisations. In practice, co-option is used for other reasons than to ward off threats, and co-opted members may well share in power. Selznick's "informal co-option" arguably describes a corrupt process of clandestine influence-buying.

Chrismorey (talk) 08:37, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Split
I suggest we split this article into two: one about organizations which fill their own vacancies (call it Co-optation (election)) and one about the political manoeuver (call it Co-optation (politics)), though obviously the latter comes from the former.

As for co-optation vs. co-option, (a) the OED's principal entry is under co-optation; (b) Google ngrams finds that co-optation (or cooptation) has been more frequent except from 1920-1965 or so, and for the past couple of decades, over twice as frequent. Restricting to British English alone, co-optation is more common than co-option, though by a smaller margin than in US English. --Macrakis (talk) 22:51, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

term "in Silicon Valley"
According to Bruce Sewell, Apple’s general counsel from 2009 to 2017,

definition of co-optation (that now redirects here): brutal competition, but at the same time, necessary cooperation.

title: Talk:Co-option


text:
Roger Cowley

Roger Arthur Cowley, FRS, FRSE, FInstP (24 February 1939 – 27 January 2015) was an English physicist who specialised in the excitations of solids.

Biography
Cowley was born in Woodford Green, Essex, on 24 February 1939. His father, Cecil Arthur Cowley, was a chartered surveyor, and his mother Mildred Sarah Nash was from a farming family. During World War II, the family evacuated to Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, later moving to Shenfield and on to Gidea Park, Essex. He was educated at Brentwood School, where he had won a scholarship, and afterwards he entered Trinity Hall, Cambridge, where he read natural sciences. Cowley would remain at Cambridge to study for a PhD.

He married Sheila Joyce Wells, a teacher of mathematics, on 4 April 1964 and they had two children. On 27 January 2015 Cowley died at a care home in Oxford as a result of a head injury sustained in a bicycle accident a year earlier.

Career and research
He was appointed professor of physics at the University of Edinburgh in 1970 and Dr Lee's Professor of Experimental Philosophy at the University of Oxford in 1988 (a post that carried with it a fellowship at Wadham College, Oxford). Cowley made his name in the field of neutron scattering. This work led to the study of phase transitions.

Awards and honours
In 1972 Cowley was elected a fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh and the following year he was awarded the inaugural Max Born Prize. He was elected Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) in 1978 and awarded the Fernand Holweck Medal and Prize in 1990. In 2003 he received the Walter Hälg Prize from the European Neutron Scattering Association and the Faraday Medal and Prize from the Institute of Physics in 2008.

title: Roger Cowley


text: Talk:University of Texas at San Antonio

title: Talk:University of Texas at San Antonio


text:
Fournaise

Fournaise (fr. "furnace", "blaze" or "bonfire") may refer to:

 * Piton de la Fournaise, a volcano on the island of Reunion
 * Maison Fournaise, a restaurant and museum near Paris

title: Fournaise


text: User talk:62.243.86.27

title: User talk:62.243.86.27


text:
Parks and open spaces in the London Borough of Newham

The London Borough of Newham, in spite of being one of the more crowded areas of London, has over 20 parks within its boundaries, as well as smaller recreation grounds. The larger parks in the Borough include:
 * Beckton District Park North
 * Beckton District Park South
 * Central Park, East Ham
 * East Ham Nature Reserve
 * King George V Park, Custom House
 * Memorial Recreation Ground, one-time home of West Ham United and its predecessor Thames Ironworks
 * Stratford Park
 * The Thames Barrier Park 2005 riverside park, developed following an international competition won by a team led by the acclaimed French landscape architect, Alain Provost, best known for his work at the Parc Citroen in Paris.
 * West Ham Park
 * Lister Gardens, Plaistow
 * Plashet Park, Forest Gate

Newham is a riverside borough, and one of the largest open spaces is the Thames itself. A riverside path exists, but flood prevention works can often make river views problematic.

Other features: In 1998, the council set up a controversial new police force, the Newham Parks Constabulary, to police these parks. The force was renamed the Newham Community Constabulary and was subjected to an investigation into abuse of power and corruption, following considerable coverage in Private Eye. The force was disbanded in July 2009.
 * The Royal Docks comprise three docks—the Royal Albert Dock, the Royal Victoria Dock and the King George V Dock—built between 1880 and 1921 on riverside marshes. The three docks collectively formed the largest enclosed docks in the world with a water area of nearly 250 acres (1 km2) and an overall estate of 1100 acres (4 km2). The docks were constructed to provide berths for large vessels that could not be accommodated further upriver. The Royal Docks were finally closed for shipping in 1981.
 * The River Lea forms the western boundary of the borough. The towpath is suitable for walking and cyclists. It can be readily accessed from Three Mills and provides access to Hackney Marshes and the Lee Valley Park.
 * The Greenway is a shared footpath and cycleway running along the route of the Northern Outfall Sewer. It runs south-east from Wick Lane in Bow; through Stratford and Plaistow in Newham. The route crosses a number of roads, but is otherwise traffic free.
 * The 200 acre City of London Cemetery and Crematorium is in the north-east of the borough.


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John (R.) Sullivan

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. -Doc (?) 17:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

John (R.) Sullivan
Can't google this guy... seems kinda unverifiable. Kappa 06:30, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. If I read this article correctly, he is a solicitor in the Irish Supreme Court and not notable. Google does not assist in verifiability. Capitalistroadster 06:42, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, unverifiable. --Angr/undefined 06:59, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, per above. Eaglizard 10:54, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Talk:List of Hong Kong government agencies

Too much data
Too much data are presented here. All you need is look at the organization chart from Hong Kong goverment. Why don't you talk something more general about the departments?--218.102.224.237 06:32, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

This article is really disorganized - departments and agencies are placed under the wrong categories and even typos. I'm currently writing the agencies articles, is anyone is interested in collaborating with me, contact me via my talk page --Larryau 15:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Radical Republican (USA)

Shouldn't the words "Carpetbaggers" and "Scalawags" be in quotations, since these are not neutral words but pejorative terms used by some ex-confederates to describe northerners and pro-Union southerners, respectively? Bds yahoo 03:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

The article says that they "were viewed as outrageous in their own time", but it seems that they did manage to actually get elected in enough numbers to control Congress, so is that actually true? --Delirium 08:17, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

How "outrageous" they seemed during their day is a valid concern. Perhaps compare this with how any contemporary Congressional majorities might be similarly viewed by most people. --Anonymous (grea) 14:00, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Carpetbaggers and scalawags are the terms historians today all use, without quote marks. Rjensen 03:24, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

One might argue that the use of the term "Radical Republican" is in itself POV, since the supposed radicalism consisted of insisting on equal rights under the law for black people as well as fair treatment under said law. A historian would explain the terms "carpetbagger" and "scalawag" in context -- that they were attempts to delegitimize those who actually tried to further the "radical" goal of the majority of the people. "Radical Republican" is another pejorative employed by Southerners and taints the record by implying that they were vicious predators intent on torturing the poor, beleaguered South. Bspeakmon 01:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

US Grant the leading radical?
Huh? Grant was no radical at all in fact he was oppossed by the liberals in 1872. Who wrote this article? It's POV! YankeeRoman(24.75.194.50 18:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC))
 * Grant was a radical republican--see the biographies. It's famous how Sumner broke with the other radicals in 1872 and opposed Grant. Rjensen 21:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

No, Grant was not a radical republican. I did see the biographies. Grant ran against the liberals and Greely (who was a radical). What does Sumner have to do with it? YankeeRoman(70.187.232.85 23:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC))
 * The Liberals of 1872 OPPOSED the Radicals. Rjensen 23:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

No, they OPPOSED the Conservatives. The Radicals were IN the liberal camp. YankeeRoman(70.187.232.85 23:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC))
 * please note that the DEMOCRATS endorsed Greeley and the Liberal ticket and bitterly fought Grant's reelection. Were the Democrats radicals too??? Rjensen 00:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, the democrats had former radicals and liberals in there as well as the Redeemers. Ben Butler was a democrat who was extremly radical. YankeeRoman(24.75.194.50 13:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC))

Grant was no radical. It's that simple.

 * I agree; the article is misleading and POV. It's ironic that it accuses Reconstruction governments for "governing without the consent of the governed", since the Redeemers disfranchised African Americans, but counted on their population in apportionment and of course expected them to pay taxes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parkwells (talk • contribs) 19:50, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Grant was not Radical Republican. Moderates "aligned with Grant as a way of weakening Radical influence within state parties." The Radical Republicans wanted him to run on an "outspoken radical platform", but that didn't happen. The platform was "far more conservative than expected". Foner, Reconstruction, pp.337-338. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parkwells (talk • contribs) 18:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Radical's approach
I agree with the radical republican's approach at reconstruction. They were more diciplining toward some people (like the leaders of secession), but more forgiving. Plus, they wanted freedom and equal rights for the African Americans! Loveable-Book-Worm 22:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

To the Loveable-Book-Worm
I agree with you! BTW, (that's a cute name!)

ok
i am 14 years old, doing a paper on the reconstruction plans, and which one wwould've woked the best. the 10% plan (Lincoln's plan), the radical republican's plan, or the restortion (president johnson's plan) im almost done.

Princess-of-Endor 03:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Restoration
Here is my paper! it's done;

~Social Studies Unit 6 Lesson 10~

~Reconstruction~

I find the plan of the radical republicans best for America’s reconstruction. They believe in freedom rights for African Americans, amnesty for the south and a better future for the country. The radical republicans’ view on African Americans was of sympathy and a desire to help. They ratified the 14th amendment (which grants civil rights to the African Americans) and the 15th amendment (which prohibits denial of rights to vote based on race). Another thing they saw to was the passing of the civil rights act of 1866. This act gave freedom and citizenship to African Americans. Plus, it gave the federal government the power to protect the African Americans and their rights. As well as supporters of colored people, they were supporters of reuniting the north and south halves of America. They were ready and willing to forgive and pardon the south, and 50% of the southern voters had to swear an oath of loyalty to the union. During the civil war, the southerners were starving. There was no food being imported from the north. To be back in the union, would mean a bigger, stronger country. In the near future, they would be the strongest, most flourishing nation in the world. The future of the nation as one union has come to be what the radical republicans had hoped. The problems with the other plans had a great deal to do with freedom of African Americans. The 10% plan (Lincoln’s plan) read that once 10% of the southern voters took an oath of loyalty, they would be offered amnesty and the state could adopt a new government and constitution that banned slavery. Although he offered forgiveness to the south and rights to African Americans, he wasn’t going to force the south to give freedom and rights to slaves held by white men. The restoration (President Johnson’s plan), would give most southern voters (including the ex-confederates) who swore an oath of loyalty a pardon and it refused rights and freedom to African Americans. He believed that that the south should be ‘led by white men’. The radical republicans’ plan proved to me to be the most forgiving, sympathetic, and sensible. The whole world has different opinions. Only when we come together are the right choices picked. Like the civil rights act of 1866. It took years of fighting before the people all came together, and discussed the issues. Even afterward it took years for the people of the north and south, or the white and black to finally see eye to eye. We can only hope that we see an improving nation by coming together as they did in our American history. Princess-of-Endor 03:42, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I would like to be able to read specific and direct information about the theories and beliefs of the Radical Republicans, not only examples of their stances. I suggest a category be made for this.

Lede is self-contradictory
Lede says:
 * The Radical Republicans were the remaining faction of American politicians within the Republican party during the American Civil War and Reconstruction following an 1864 exodus of pro-Lincoln Republicans  into the creation of the National Union Party. John C. Frémont was briefly the U.S. presidential candidate of the Radical Republicans.

If they did not exist until after 1864, they could not run a candidate in 1856. Radical Republican is an umbrella term (often used pejoratively) for at least 3 stages in life of the early Republican party. 1st> for those who wanted to move fastest towards abolition, 2> for those who wanted to move fastest towards voting rights for blacks, and 3rd> for those who wanted to deal harshly with ex-CSA states during Reconstruction. THe term may have been applied derogatorily to ALL Republicans at first, even the ones who wanted only a gradual elimination of slavery. Contemporaneous usage of the term will need to be cited for each of the 3 stages of its usage --JimWae 06:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Lincoln was not part of any 1864 exodus from the Republican party either. I see now there were some Republicans who formed a convention in 1864 & nominated Fremont. Frémont abandoned his political campaign in September 1864, after he brokered a political deal in which Lincoln removed U.S. Postmaster General Montgomery Blair from office - and Fremont got no votes according to election of 1864 article--JimWae 08:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, there was briefly a political party by this name - but even the article applies the term to people before the 1864 election. Also, if there was any exodus, it would seem to be by the RRs --JimWae 09:06, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, it appears the name of the political party was actually not Radical Republican. --JimWae 09:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Several hundred radical Republicans held their own convention in Cleveland, Ohio. They formed a new political party called the Radical Democracy. They nominated explorer John Fremont as their candidate for the national election. Fremont had been the Republican presidential candidate eight years earlier. Most of the radical Republicans in Congress did not take part in the convention in Cleveland. They refused to support Fremont. They felt he had no chance to win the election.
 * May 31, 1864 A small convention in Cleveland of Republican abolitionists unhappy with Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation and other things, nominates John C. Fremont for president.
 * June 7, 1864 The Republican (National Union) Convention opens in Baltimore, Maryland.
 * June 8, 1864 The Republican National Convention nominates Abraham Lincoln to run for President and Andrew Johnson to run for Vice-President Maryland. President Lincoln, nominated for a second term, calls for an amendment abolishing slavery
 * August 31, 1864 Democrats nominate George B. McClellan for President and George H. Pendleton for Vice-president. Although the party platform called for an immediate end to the war McClellan advocated continuing the conflict.
 * more at http://elections.harpweek.com/1864/Overview-1864-2.htm

Bibliography - Inaccurate Link
Under the Bibliography there is a purported link to the online edition of Hans Trefousse's biography of Thaddeus Stevens, however, the link jumps to Trefousse's bio of Andrew Johnson. The original poster/author of the entry may have the original, and correct, link. If it is not corrected then this link should be removed. LAWinans (talk) 23:55, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Did the Radical Republicans really lead the Reconstruction of the South?
Definitely no, according to the works by basically all the important historians since 1960. The influence of moderate Republicans like Trumbull or Fessenden especially in the Years 1867 and 1868 is stressed e.g. by McKitrick (1960). According to him they were responsible for the formulation of the Freedmen's Bureau Bill and the Civil Rights Bill 1866 and for the overriding of Johnsons Veto. BTW the passage "When they discovered his ambivalence on key issues by his veto of Civil Rights Act of 1866, they overrode his veto." is utter nonsense apart from that it does not say what the ambivalence was. The Radicals would have voted against the veto no matter how the veto message of Johnson looked like but it was the votes of the Moderates that helped the Republicans to override the veto of the president in that case (unlike in the case of the Freedmen's Bureau Bill a few weeks earlier when the votes of the Radicals were not enough to override Johnson's veto). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flohru (talk • contribs) 13:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Confusion between "Radical Republicans" and "Republicans"
During the Civil War and Reconstruction, Radicals were only a faction of the Republican party, as this article points out early on. But the text itself never distinguishes clearly between Radicals and the Republican party as a whole. This confusion makes it very misleading in several instances: Grant was not a Radical, nor the Radicals' choice for the Presidency; he was however supported by them when he won the nomination. Radicals were an important force in the Republican party, but they never controlled it. Nor were they ever able to pass legislation without the vote of the Moderates in the party. See M. L. Benedict's works on that. See also E. Foner's Reconstruction.

In my opinion, then, an article about Radical Republicans should be limited to that specific group. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.157.151.231 (talk) 16:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I think this is misleading, too, as the comments above, show. There is a similar broad brushing of Republicans as all Radical Republicans in the Reconstruction article, which at one point tried to claim Grant as a Radical Republican. This should be an article that addresses only them, and from comments, Fremont can't be considered one in 1854!--Parkwells (talk) 20:24, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Grant was ambiguous in 1868, but as soon as he became president he became the most important Radical--although of course not in Congress. The Radicals have to be contrasted with their opponents (the Radical and moderate GOP wings sometimes cooperated and sometimes disagreed. The Democrats always fought the Radicals) Many--probnably most--ex-radicals joined the "Stalwart" cause and supported Grant for president in 1880.Rjensen (talk) 09:12, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Consent and amnesty
"Consent of the governed" (from Declaration of Independence) meant that the people could vote. That was a central idea for Sumner and most abolitionists (who applied it to freedmen). The 1872 amnesty primarily restored the right to vote (and to hold office) to ex-Confederates. Rjensen (talk) 08:25, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Amnesty is not usually about voting - the sentence should include mention of voting --JimWae (talk) 08:31, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

 * "Amnesty" in 1872 meant restoring the right to vote and hold office to ex-confederates. See Robert W. Burg, "Amnesty, Civil Rights, And The Meaning Of Liberal Republicanism, 1862-1872". American Nineteenth Century History 2003 4(3): 29-60. A key Radical goal was to oust the ex-Confederates from power (otherwise maybe they would restore the Confederacy).Rjensen (talk) 08:57, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Where does the article state that - general reader should not be expected to know this --JimWae (talk) 09:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * OK I'll add the points. Rjensen (talk) 09:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Radical Republican (USA)


text:
Virginia State Route 2

State Route 2 (SR 2), formerly State Route 50 (SR 50), is a primary state highway in the U.S. state of Virginia. The state highway runs 53.08 mi from U.S. Route 1 (US 1) and US 301 in Richmond north to US 1 Business, US 17 Business, and SR 3 Business in Fredericksburg. SR 2 connects Richmond and Fredericksburg via Bowling Green. The state highway runs concurrently with US 301 from Richmond to Bowling Green and with US 17 Business in the Fredericksburg area.

Route description
SR 2 begins at an intersection with US 1 and US 301 at the northern edge of Richmond. Southbound US 1 and US 301 head south along Chamberlayne Avenue toward downtown Richmond. Northbound US 1 heads west on Azalea Avenue then turns north onto Brook Road a few blocks to the west. SR 2 and US 301 head north on Chamberlayne Avenue, a four-lane divided highway that becomes Chamberlayne Road upon entering Henrico County. A short distance north of the city limits, the carriageways split, with the southbound lanes crossing to the west of Interstate 95 (I-95). Several ramps connect the two highways with I-95 in the forested area around Upham Brook. After I-95 veers northwest and the carriageways rejoin, SR 2 and US 301 pass through the suburb of Chamberlayne. The highways meet the eastern end of Parham Road, the main east–west boulevard of Henrico County, just before crossing the Chickahominy River into Hanover County.

SR 2 and US 301 meet I-295 at a cloverleaf interchange just north of the county line. The two highways continue through a suburban area where they pass under CSX's Piedmont Subdivision. North of Hanover High School, SR 2 and US 301 was reduced to two lanes, and the road's name was changed to Hanover Courthouse Road. The highways pass the 18th century Hanover County Courthouse and meet the eastern end of SR 54 (Patrick Henry Road) in the county seat of Hanover Courthouse. SR 2 and US 301 cross the Pamunkey River into Caroline County. The road, now named Richmond Turnpike, intersects SR 30 (Dawn Boulevard) in the hamlet of Bowersville, also known as Dawn. The two highways run straight for 13 mi; near the north end of the straight, the highways cross the Mattaponi River.

At the north end of the straight, SR 2 and US 301 expand to a four-lane divided highway that lasts until the two highways pass under SR 207 (Bowling Green Bypass). US 301 leaves SR 2 on a two-way ramp to the bypass to head toward the Potomac River Bridge into Charles County, Maryland. SR 2 and US 301 Business continue into the town of Bowling Green as Main Street. At the north end of downtown, the state highway intersects Broaddus Avenue, which heads west as SR 207 Business and east as US 301 Business. SR 2 leaves town as the Fredericksburg Turnpike. On this only stretch of the state highway that does not run concurrently with another highway, the highway passes along the western edge of Fort A.P. Hill and through the hamlets of Villboro, Locks Corner, and Corbin. SR 2 becomes Sandy Lane Drive upon entering Spotsylvania County, where its solo existence ends at its intersection with US 17 (Mills Drive) at New Post.

SR 2 continues north together with US 17 Business along Tidewater Trail, which crosses Massaponax Creek and passes through a suburban area on the south side of Fredericksburg. The highways become Dixon Street and expand to a four-lane divided highway as they enter the independent city. SR 2 and US 17 Business meet SR 3 (Blue and Gray Parkway) at a partial cloverleaf interchange. At Charles Street, Dixon Street veers east, then the two highways turn north onto a one-way pair, Caroline Street northbound and Princess Anne Street southbound. The two streets pass under CSX's RF&P Subdivision at the southern end of downtown adjacent to the Fredericksburg station, which serves Amtrak and Virginia Railway Express's Fredericksburg Line. Immediately north of the railroad crossing SR 2 and US 17 Business meet US 1 Business (Lafayette Boulevard), which joins the two highways through downtown Fredericksburg. Just north of St. George's Episcopal Church, which abuts Princess Anne Street, SR 2 reaches its northern terminus at SR 3 Business (William Street). The two U.S. Highway business routes continue north through Fredericksburg to an intersection with US 1 just south of that highway's crossing of the Rappahannock River.

title: Virginia State Route 2


text:
Jed

Jed or JED may refer to:

Places

 * Jed River, New Zealand
 * Jed Water, a river in Scotland
 * Jed, West Virginia, United States, an unincorporated community

People and fictional characters

 * Jed (given name), a list of people and fictional characters with the given name or nickname
 * Jed the Fish (born 1955), radio disc jockey Edwin Fish Gould III
 * Jed Madela, stage name of Filipino recording artist and TV host John Edward Tajanlangit (born 1977)

JED

 * JED, IATA code for King Abdulaziz International Airport, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
 * JED (text editor)
 * Journal of Electronic Defense
 * Julian Ephemeris Date, i.e. Julian date

Other uses

 * HMS Jed, several Royal Navy ships
 * Jed (album), by the Goo Goo Dolls
 * Jed (wolfdog), an animal actor
 * Jed, a slang term for a member of the World War II secret Operation Jedburgh; collectively the members were known as 'The Jeds'
 * The Jed Foundation, a non-profit organization promoting emotional health and prevent suicide among college students

title: Jed


text:
Talk:Keith Hill (politician)

Streatham Labour Party
Why was the link to the Streatham Labour Party reverted? Seems pertinent enough to me. — ciphergoth 06:36, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Keith Hill (politician)


text:
Australian Sharpie

The Australian Sharpie is a 3-person sailing dinghy which has evolved from the 12-square-metre class sailed in the 1956 Olympics in Melbourne, Australia. Australian Sharpies are 19 feet, $11 3/4$ inches long, with a planing hull and a single mast. Sharpies race with a fully battened mainsail, a jib and a spinnaker. They are sailed competitively in all six Australian states. The Australian Sharpie National Titles is run as a carnival each year rotating from state to state. A National Conference is held each year during this event by officials from the Australian Sharpie Sailing Association (ASSA).

Famous Sharpie sailors include 1983 America's Cup winner John Bertrand, Sir James Hardy and John Cuneo.

Development
Development of the Australian Sharpie is strictly controlled by the Australian Sharpie Sailing Association (ASSA), which has chapters in each of the states which have Sharpie fleets. The current craft was initially referred to as a "Lightweight Sharpie". to distinguish it from an earlier design which was referred to as a "Heavyweight Sharpie"; however, at a recent national conference the name was officially changed to "Australian Sharpie". The Lightweight Sharpie was founded by the Addison brothers in Western Australia.

Because of the design, the type has limitations that prevent mass-production in fiberglass. Fiberglass, by its nature, is stronger when used for compound curves; the flat bottom and sides of a sharpie are not well suited to this building material. Some designers, including Bruce Kirby and Reuel Parker, have managed to add some curves (typically at the chine) without compromising the qualities of the type, but there are limits as to what can be done before the boat becomes something other than a sharpie.

The earlier heavyweight Sharpie is still sailed with fleets in the UK, Holland, Germany, and Portugal.

The Australian Sharpie Sailing Association
The association consists of representatives from each state with an active sailing Sharpie fleet. Office bearers in the association include an:

 * Australian Commodore
 * Australian President
 * Australian Measurer
 * Australian Secretary
 * Carnival Secretary
 * Regatta Technical Advisor
 * Australian Regatta Secretary
 * Australian Publicity Officer

Each state division (chapter) of the association also has its own office bearers, typically including a President, Measurer, Secretary, Race Officer and Publicity Officer.

The Annual Carnival and National Titles
The Carnival is held annually in consecutive states in the following order:

 * South Australia
 * Western Australia
 * New South Wales
 * Tasmania
 * Victoria
 * Queensland

The National Titles trophy consists of 7 races. These races are preceded by two invitation races.

National Awards
A number of perpetual trophies are presented at the end of the annual carnival. These include the following:

 * Australian Champion (Addison Brothers Trophy, Sir Dallas Brooks Trophy, Geoff Augustine Memorial Trophy)
 * Runner-up Australian Champion (Alcorso Trophy)
 * Third Place Champion (Fred Meyer Memorial Trophy)
 * Fourth Place Champion (Phil Durham Memorial Trophy)
 * Overall Consistency Champion (The O'Grady Cup)
 * Best Junior Skipper (Tomlinson Trophy)
 * Most Carnival Wins (Mark Peelgrane Memorial Trophy)
 * Best Country Representative (Red Hand Trophy)
 * First Non-State Team Competitor (Don Shields Perpetual Trophy)
 * Overall Consistency on Handicap (Westpac Bank Trophy)
 * Open Invitation Events (Ray Callard Trophy)
 * First Non-State Team Competitor Handicap (George Laurens Trophy)
 * Golden Oldies (Golden Oldies Trophy)
 * First skipper over 50 (Erky Mitton Trophy)
 * First female skipper (Graham Keys Trophy)
 * Champion Team (Bishop Teams Trophy)
 * First Handicap Champion (Bretts Handicap Trophy)
 * Chug-a-lug

title: Australian Sharpie


text:
Talk:Love Actually

reversion
Odd, I watched the film last night, and corrected some of the text to reflect what's actaually said by the characters - but ho hum, if it's preferred incorrect that's fine. I also corrected some of the Americanisations to UK English, ditto… Hmm…

quick question
did harry actually(no pun intended) have an affair —Preceding unsigned comment added by Helicopter tours (talk • contribs) 18:22, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Most viewers are left with the impression Harry and Mia didn't actually sleep together, although we're never told whether they did or not. Jess Cully (talk) 21:33, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I assumed that it was an emotional betrayal, not a physical one, but could've led to that if they hadn't been 'found out'. Sky83 (talk) 16:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Does everyone know the name of the melody in the shopping centre (it plays when Alan Rickam can buy a necklace for Mia)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.160.87.79 (talk) 18:56, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Sarah
Is the character of Sarah supposed to be an American working and living in London? Someone mentioned this in conversation, but I did not remember this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.204.199.241 (talk) 14:28, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Only a few minutes of this long film involves Sarah's story. She has an American accent; she works and lives in London. The most likely scenario, by far, is that she and her brother are American immigrants. However, I don't believe anything was stated about her life, apart from 'there are no parents now', which probably means that they are both dead; viewers never hear her brother speak. F W Nietzsche (talk) 01:32, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

 * You need to watch the film again. In the first scene of them together her brother tells her that the nurses are trying to kill him and she says that they aren't. MarnetteD | Talk 05:30, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Though I understand the film is fiction, the plotline involving Sarah requires that the viewers believe in the characters involved in order for them to appreciate her story. Can any White Americans reading this explain if it is realistic at all for a successful and attractive woman like her to devote so much of her life to her severely mentally ill brother, when there is nothing in it for her? F W Nietzsche (talk) 02:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

 * This storyline is believable in the way that it is presented which is quite brief as you say. There could be any number of backstories that would explain why she feels that she must sacrifice an outside life. I'm not quite sure what race has to do with it but it should be pointed out that not everyone in the world who is successful and attractive is selfish. MarnetteD | Talk 05:30, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Having a life of one's own is not "selfish." Sarah is not a caring sister, she is a martyr.  The problem is, the only kind of love the film seems to understand is some kind of completely over-the-top obsessive love.  That Sarah could love her brother deeply, while trusting him most of the time to institutional care as she enjoys her life, seems unacceptable to the film-maker. Slrubenstein   |  Talk 01:04, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Daniel's wife
The section Harry, Karen, and Mia states that the wife died of 'cancer'. The section Daniel and Carol; Sam and Joanna states that she died of an 'unspecifed long-term illness'. I don't remember the cause of her death, or the duration of it, ever being stated. In any case, the two sections contradict each other - either the cause was stated or it wasn't. F W Nietzsche (talk) 02:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Daniel and Sam
Why here is no storyline of Daniel and Sam? AATS (talk 09:40, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There is, see Love Actually. Garion96 (talk) 10:16, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Harry/Mia affair?
I think the line "She immediately understands Harry is having an affair" is incorrect, the film implicitly implies (though admitted doesn't overtly state) that Harry does not have an affair and thaty he buys Mia the necklace out of a combination of sexual attraction (though not sex) and bullying. I am rephrasing it as "believes" as I feel this is more reasonable. Gamma2delta (talk) 18:59, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

English ensemble cast
I don't think there's a need for putting "The ensemble cast is composed of predominantly English actors." People know the film is British. It's like writing "The ensemble cast is composed of predominantly American actors" when we're talking about an American film. Doesn't it sound ludicrous? When something isn't American it's always clarified. No need to put a sentence like that. --Agusk7 (talk) 18:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Entelechy
The title of the film is interesting, because it seems to recall Aristotle's philosophical concept of entelechy, which has been used by various philosophers to make a distinction between actual love and potential love. With regards to this, there is one medieval school of thought which posits that love is always actual, meaning that the expresions "Love Actually" and "Actually Love" are almost synonymous. ADM (talk) 05:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Films set in Wisconsin?
One minute of this two hour movie takes place in Wisconsin. Is that really all it takes to have the category, "Films set in Wisconsin?"62.150.91.20 (talk) 15:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

bullying by US Presidents
The wording is biased in the production section where it reads, "In 2009, during President Barack Obama's first visit to the UK, Chris Matthews referred to the president in Love Actually as an exemplar of George W. Bush and other former presidents' bullying of European allies."

This sounds as though it is an absolute fact that American Presidents have bullied their European allies, but it is actually the opinion of Chris Matthews. I think this wording should be corrected to reflect that it is the opinion of Chris Matthews - and perhaps others - but is not necessarily accurate from an historical standpoint. Perhaps Chris Matthews could be quoted instead which would clarify the situation and be less politically biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jcwinks (talk • contribs) 04:06, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Actors
Why state that the cast of this British film "is composed predominantly of British actors"? That is hardly surprising.203.184.41.226 (talk) 06:25, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Hardly surprisingly, but not necessarily the case. Kdammers (talk) 18:02, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Sexual harassment
I'm editing two places where the US President is described as "trying to seduce" Natalie. I find this phrasing too sugar-coated, as it is pretty clear that he was sexually harassing her.--Ibis3 (talk) 04:19, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Marseille v. Portugal
Just a small part of the movie, but still a harsh inconsistency of the filmmakers when most viewers see this proposal scene taking place in a Portuguese town and others insist it must be Marseille after this airport has been shown. IMO the scene was shot in the Provence region with a Portuguese cast to make it look like Portugal. --Pakeha (talk) 01:17, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It isn't inconsistent, it isn't in a Portuguese town and it was not shot to make it look like Portugal. It takes place in Marseilles. Many large cities have enclaves where people from another country gather to live and work and have restaurants serving clientele from that country. Take the sequences in order - After he finds his girlfriend sleeping with his brother Jamie goes to his country villa outside of Marseilles to work on his novel - a French woman introduces Aurelia as his new house keeper - each day, after her work is finished, he takes her to her home in Marseilles - when he leaves his extended family in London on Christmas Eve ("We Hate Jamie") he goes back to Marseilles. What would be inconsistent is if Jamie then flew from Marseilles to an unnamed city and neighborhood in Portugal that he has never been told of. You may not like it but the plot is entirely consistent. MarnetteD|Talk 01:35, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * @ . I have just completed my annual Christmas viewing of my DVD and would be unable to disagree with any of 's summary above. — | Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh Buzzard| — 18:51, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all the explanations. --Pakeha (talk) 21:54, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Film Nationality
So, this film is a American-British-French film, as seen by the references. There isn't a reference in the previous versions that gives it as only a British film. http://www.afi.com/members/catalog/DetailView.aspx?s=&Movie=62814 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:CA0D:8C00:4D17:BD90:7F4E:F953 (talk) 08:14, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for opening the discussion. Please wait until consensus is reached before making any changes to the article.  Onel 5969  TT me 20:21, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok. I fail to see how BRD applies here.  It's not a point of view, or disputed fact.  The article was marked for needing more citations.  I went and looked for a citation on the nationality of the movie, and it's American-French-British.  This is the same at BFI and AFI.  What we have on the article isn't necessary for consensus, as it's incorrect.  It's not a British film.  It's an American-British-French (alphabetical here) film!

Is there a citation for making this just a British film? If there was, then I could see the need for consensus. I don't see a need for consensus here, sorry.
 * I have to agree with the IP editor. I don't understand why people are reverting this.  AFI is a very reliable source.  Is there some source that disagrees with it?  BFI seems to agree with the France/UK/US categorization. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:19, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I can't find where either the BFI or the AFI site actually define what they mean by "Country". Is it possible that the field is used to list the locations of filming rather than the nationalities of the film companies involved? Meters (talk) 19:31, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * No, it's definitely country of origin. We cite BFI and AFI for this quite regularly in film articles.  If you look at this entry at BFI, you will see that Chappie is categorized as an American film.  It was short in South Africa.  Here's what I see so far:
 * AFI: UK/France/US
 * BFI: UK/France/US
 * European Audiovisual Observatory: UK/US
 * Variety: UK
 * Allmovie: UK
 * The Numbers: UK
 * I'm not sure where The Numbers gets their production info from. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:24, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I think an argument can be made for either British-French (based on the production companies), or British alone, being predominately produced by British production companies and primarily shot in Britain. While AFI and BFI are excellent sources, they are not infallible, and it looks like they included US simply because some of the scenes were set in the US. Looking deeper at both the AFI and BFI sources strengthens a British only indication, since the French and US production companies appear to be solely distribution vehicles. In fact, based on that, StudioCanal should probably be moved from production to distribution. My only point in reverting was to open a discussion until consensus is reached. As per guidelines, the original state of the article should remain until that consensus is reached.  Onel 5969  TT me 12:54, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing the US production element. It's possible the French unit was actually StudioCanal S.A. (i.e, production, rather than just distribution by StudioCanal Images S.A.), so either British or British-French. Meters (talk) 17:34, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Just go along with the sources. It doesn't matter what you see or not, Wikipedia doesn't publish WP:OR, which I'm sure many of you know by heart. Given that the sources don't agree with each other on the nationality, a better alternative would be not to cover them/it in the opening sentence, but to cover them/it later in the lead as per WP:FILMLEAD. Regarding the infobox, Template:Infobox film states preference is given to reliable databases like BFI, AFI, or Variety; has provided links to all three of them above. --  ChamithN   (talk)  13:35, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how we can make an argument for British alone, as there are no references that say that. As the article stands, it's referenced.  There are references that say it's French, British and American, but none that say it is only British.  I don't see what consensus has to do with the article in this case, as right now, the article is FACTUALLY WRONG, and changing it to be correct would be in the best interest of the encyclopedia.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.207.132.56 (talk) 19:00, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
 * As has been pointed out, the sources don't agree. Even the three best sources listed in Template:Infobox film don't agree, and one of them says just British. So, we don't know which references ire factually correct. If none of the sources are definitive we either have to remove the information entirely, or mention that the various normally reliable sources disagree and list the different sourced results. Meters (talk) 19:25, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
 * As we deal in verifiable facts here, since it's not verifiable, shouldn't we then remove the information completely? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:CA0D:8C00:EC81:88FB:22E5:8564 (talk) 20:23, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

No. It is a British film. Please sign and datestamp your Talk page contributions. — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard | 15:57, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, you are likely correct, but do you have a definitive source for that statement? If so then please tell us what it is. In this case we have normally reliable sources that disagree. We don't report false information when we know a reliable source made a mistake, but we need more than editors' opinions to decide which sources are wrong. Meters (talk) 16:51, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Gareth Griffith-Jones, what makes it a British Film? Do we have any sources? This has been a question for other films as well, if we have conflicting sources, what do we trust? Do we have any sources that list it as a British-only film? Here we do, so what do we say? I'd personally take British out of the lead paragraph, and then add the production countries to the infobox.
 * In light of conflicting information from the sources, I went with the British Film Institute, who, probably has the most vested interest in keeping track of British Films. I removed the term "british film" and replaced with "film" in the lead paragraph.  I can't see how this violates any wikipedia policy, and is verifiable, properly sourced, and NPOV.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:CA36:5800:C905:15E1:961B:F5A9 (talk) 07:00, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The reference would seem to be sound. I have corrected your revision of the Info' box. — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard | 10:34, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Both Sides Now - multiple 2000 Joni recordings

 * "Both Sides, Now" (4:32) Released 1967 * Song by Joni Mitchell from the album Clouds

There are at least two different "2000" recordings of Joni singing BSN:
 * studio recording version on BSN album (recorded 1999) released Feb/Mar 2000 - track 12, 5:45
 * single released 2000 (exact same as album track?)
 * "Both Sides Now" will also be the first single serviced from the project. It goes to triple-A, jazz, adult standards, and NPR stations Feb. 15. (jonimitchell.com/library/print.cfm?id=633)

 * live performance April 6, 2000 version:
 * "In tribute to Mitchell, the TNT network presented an all-star celebration at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City on April 6, 2000. Mitchell's songs were sung by many performers... Mitchell herself ended the evening with a rendition of "Both Sides Now" with a 70-piece orchestra.[94] The version was featured on the soundtrack to the movie Love Actually."

 * The last part of this article lede sentence therefore may be mistaken:
 * "She re-recorded the song in a lusher, orchestrated version for her 2000 album Both Sides Now; this version was subsequently featured on the soundtrack to the 2003 film Love Actually."

There are at least three appearances of BSN song associated with the movie Love Actually (2003): the inclusion within the movie (1:25); featured within a bonus extra on the movie DVD (about 2min); on the movie soundtrack album (track 9, 5:46).
 * movie inclusion:
 * Both Sides Now * Joni Mitchell
 * 1:25  Karen gets the CD as a present. She puts on this song and cries in her room. Meanwhile Mia tries on the necklace in her room.

These three may or may not be identical. Do they all actually derive from the TNT April 6, 2000 performance, not the BSN album studio track?-71.174.190.122 (talk) 16:47, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Long plot and the need to reorganize article
The plot section of this film article is excessively long. It is far in excess of the 400-700 words recommended by the WP:FILMPLOT guidelines. It is close to 2000 words depending on how you count. The plot section contains excessive details that are not even related to the plot, such as the "Story association" section. I tagged the Plot section using Template:long plot. My effort to tag this article has been reverted more than once by editors who have not followed the simple rules and explained their revert with an edit summary or any explanation as to why this film article is not following the film plot guidelines.

The WP:MOSFILM guidelines give examples of very complicated films such as Memento (film) and an anthology film Pulp Fiction both of which went from having very very long plot sections to eventually following the guidelines. Those examples include a section called "Story structure" which is similar to the "Story association" section used in this article. It would be a good first step to make that into a separate section not part of the Plot section. The background information about the character Rufus having being originally intended as an angel is not plot, it is background production information. I attempted to make this change too, and I made it in as a small edit separate edit with a clear edit summary about what I was doing.

The guidelines don't make it clear but there is wiggle room for anthology films and some film articles have much longer than usual plot summaries but there doesn't seem to have been any attempt to keep the plot length of this article concise. In a more generous counting of the plot length, excluding the "Story association" section, and the Rufus section, not including the words to make the subheadings, and removing the actor names, the plot length still comes in at a hefty 1,475 words. If an an anthology film with a non linear structure like Pulp Fiction can follow the guidelines there's no reason why this article can't at least try. It isn't unreasonable to suggest this article should be able to more than adequately summarize the plot in under 1000 words.

There are great many things that could be trimmed. The first paragraph of prologue could go almost entirely. It is enough to explain that the featured song is a Christmas variation of "Love Is All Around", the detail that it was originally by "The Troggs" is can be explained elsewhere or left to the wikilink. [There s too much ... skipping ahead.] It is as if this article is trying to have the longest plot section possible, the detail "Karen's brother, David (Hugh Grant)," is a not an essential plot detail, and it is a detail that most other film articles would quickly mention in the Cast/Characters section. Natalie could more succinctly be described as "part of the household staff" her newness and lack of seniority are not essential details either, and if the previous sentence absolutely needs to point out that David (Hugh Grant) is only recently elected then it is already implicit that all the household staff are new to him. These are only a few examples.

I think this article could be a much much better. I reiterate my suggestions to not merely shorten the plot but more importantly reorganizing the article to move non plot information to other sections (which can be expanded so long as they are properly sources). -- 109.76.146.164 (talk) 01:23, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

 * No comments? I understand people are busy this time of year but I gave it two weeks and not one single comment. It only took minutes for the tag to be removed from the article, but after all this time still no one has made any effort to explain why this article is not following the WP:FILMPLOT rules, or why the plot section includes so much information that is not even plot. I will tag the plot section as too long again unless there is some discussion. -- 109.78.238.236 (talk) 15:32, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

 * As was stated here Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film the plot length for this article is acceptable. You can take the lack of response as a WP:CONSENSUS for the current plot section. WP:IAR also applies. MarnetteD|Talk 19:24, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

That was wrong then and still wrong now. Maybe you can argue LOCAL CONSENSUS but you need to build consensus. Wikipedia doesn't allow you to use the lack of engagement as consensus. This article was and still is is disorganized and the plot is excessively long. At least show some good faith and move the non-plot details out of the plot section (Christmas angel specifically). -- 89.101.195.102 (talk) 18:02, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Pulp Fiction has a plot summary within the guidelines and it is is a cop-out that this article doesn't even trying to improve the bloated plot section of this article. -- 89.101.195.102 (talk) 18:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Guidelines have been linked to. If you don't like them you are free to try and change them but WP:CONSENSUS holds that they are not "wrong" until they are changed. As to your second post see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. MarnetteD|Talk 18:09, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * This is absurd, you are one ignoring the WP:FILMPLOT guidelines on the weakest grounds, but claiming your exceptionalism has to be disproved, but not bothering to even show local consensus for ignoring the larger consensus that decided the rules and successfully applied them to films longer and more complex than this.
 * You aren't even making the smallest effort to show good faith by moving the unsourced alternative "Christmas angel" plotline out of the plot section to Production. This article could be much better. -- 89.101.195.102 (talk) 18:19, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Your lack of AGF is apparent with each post you make and your statements show a WP:IDONTLIKEIT mentality. WP:CONSENSUS already exists for this article. MarnetteD|Talk 18:23, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The lack of improvement to this article disappointed me before and still disappoints me now. This C Class article is ossified by inaction and you keep asserting everything is fine. -- 89.101.195.102 (talk) 18:28, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Claudia Schiffer cameo
Why did you undo the edit about the Claudia Schiffer cameo? By what criteria do you establish that some content is "(not needed)"? --MirelesJ (talk) 20:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

 * Your ping did not work because you did not sign your post. The item is not sourced so it is WP:OR as it stands. It is cute but not really part of the plot. You might mention it with a source in the production/cast section. MarnetteD|Talk 22:33, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Additional sources
WhisperToMe (talk) 19:46, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Is there a better term?
Regarding this edit has a point that, since they aren't seen filming the scenes, body doubles isn't the right description to use. OTOH I'm not sure that stand ins is the right term either. They aren't going to replace the main actors if they get sick or can't film for some other reason. I think there is a term for this kind of job but I can't think of it at the moment. If anyone else can think of it then we can update the page. If not I'm okay with leaving it as it is as well. MarnetteD|Talk 21:22, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

 * This is exactly what they were doing. From stand-in, "a person who substitutes for the actor before filming, for technical purposes such as lighting and camera setup". Stand-ins usually don't replace the actual actors on camera. --Shivertimbers433 (talk) 22:27, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah - my mistake - I was only thinking of stand in in relation to stage acting. Thanks for pointing this out . Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 23:27, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
 * 'Stand-in' is the term used in the 'Interconnections between the Love Actually characters' graphic. -- Jmc (talk) 03:36, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Controversy
On the NPR radio program on Christmas Eve 2023, it was mentioned that the film has become controversial due to, i.a., stereotypes. Should this be added (with examples cited by second sources) to the reception section? Kdammers (talk) 18:04, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Love Actually