text:
Talk:Orleans, Ontario

Queensway
I reverted intothedark's edits because they are wrong. He is confusing the 417 with the Queensway. The Queensway goes from Orleans to Kanata, while the 417 is the highway that veers off. It becomes 174 though. Secondly, Orleans was on the border between Cumberland and Gloucester like the article says. Look at a map. Actually, a map will tell you about the Queensway too. -- Earl Andrew - talk 04:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

You are incorrect. The 417 runs from the split out to past Arnprior now. The Queensway is a purely arbitrary name, and is not commonly used to refer to Regional Road 174. Orleans was part of Gloucester. It was never a separate municipality. It was under the administrative control of the municipality of Gloucester, and only the Municipality of Gloucester. Orleans was never part of Cumberland, which was a separate township. You need to check your facts. I know maps clearly display Orleans as lying between Cumberland and Gloucester. But those maps do not reflect the true nature of the administrative reality. Orleans was a 'suburb' to use the term very loosely, of Gloucester. Further, many maps, including mapquest.com still use incorrect names for Regional Road 174. You should look up information about the provincial downloading that occurred, which transferred Highway 17 to the City of Ottawa, and thus resulted in the creation of Regional Road 174. It is possible to call R.R. 174 The Queensway, as that is an unofficial name. The official names are Highway 417, which runs from the Ontario/Quebec border, through the split near St. Laurent, out to roughly Arnprior now, and then becomes Highway 17. Past the split we find the 417 veers off toward South Ottawa (then on to Montreal). The other end of that split leads us to R.R. 174. Drive it, you'll see that's what the sign says. Everything that I changed can be found on other pages at wikipedia, including the information about Highway 417, which you could also get from the MTO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Intothedark (talk • contribs)

 * I'm not going to argue with you. Everything you have said is factually incorrect and can be verified in the contrary. -- Earl Andrew - talk 06:02, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Well if you insist on reverting to factually incorrect information, fine. It is sad for wikipedia. I present the proof to what I say, I challenge you to do the same.

Highway 417 is the highway that runs from arnprior through Ottawa, veering southwards at the split near St. Laurent. All provincial highways are numbered, some have been assigned names in addition to their numbering. Highway 417, and it alone is factually referred to as the Queensway, though some also extend the name to R.R. 174.

The Proof: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/engineering/417ea/ - a map nearly halfway down the page clearly shows Highway 417, and R.R. 174. One is owned and operated by the province (417) and the other by the city R.R. 174. This was the result of provincial downloading under the Harris government. Also, the 417, even through Ottawa falls under O.P.P. jurisdiction, while the 174 is under City of Ottawa police jurisdiction. However, the forces work together.

See Also:
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_417

 * http://ottawa.ca/city_services/traffic/26_1_3_2_a_en.shtml - look under 'Champlain' to see 'Champlain and 174 WB Offramp' - This is part of the interchange where Place d'Orleans is!

Now for Orleans, if you look under the archived city council minutes of the former municipality of Gloucester you will see things like:

(i) the new residential development area in Chapel Hill South; (iii) establishing all-way "Stop" controls at the Beausejour Drive/Country Walk Drive intersection in Chapel Hill (Rodney Pitchers, Head of Traffic Operations, ext. 4190).
 * By-law No. 101 of 2000; To approve of an art commission at the Orléans Recreation Complex
 * By-law No. 108 of 2000; To amend the City's Traffic and Parking By-law No.1 of 1996 with respect to the installation of traffic control measures in;
 * By-law No. 88 of 2000; To dedicate a 0.3 metre reserve described as Parts 3 and 4, Plan 5R-12710 as a public highway to form part of Carrière Street
 * By-law No. 78 of 2000; To approve the change of a street name from Cavalier Crescent, on Plan 4M-106, to Cavalier Way (Chapel Hill South) (Angela Gatto, Legislative Services, ext. 4107).
 * A. Resolution - To approve a proposal to upgrade softball facilities at Carrière and Garneau Parks for the Orléans Amateur Fastball Association (Judy Billingsley, Recreation Planner, Recreation and Culture, ext. 4134).
 * (ii) establishing a "No Parking" during the weekend time period on Apple Leaf Way and Silver Pines Crescent in Chapel Hill South and;

THis is all available in the minutes located at http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/archives/gloucester/council/council_agendas.html

I challenge you to show me the proof that what I say, and back up, is incorrect. Wikipedia is only a great source if information is correct. I am not interested in arguing at all, I am interested in ensuring factual information. I will concede that we could be more specific, and state that R.R. 174 is sometimes referred to as the Queensway by locals, that is true...-Intothedark

 * I'm not disputing the existance of Highway 174. I know where the 417 runs. However, the Queensway runs from Kanata to Orleans. The Queensway and the 417 are not one in the same. Get a copy of the MapArt Road Atlas of Ontario, look on the Ottawa page then at tile Q 63, and you will see the word "Queensway" right on Highway 174, east of the split. As for Orleans, I can tell you it includes the whole urban area in the northeast corner of Gloucester AND the northwest corner of Cumberland. Just take a look at this map on the city of Ottawa website

The area in Cumberland is known as "Orleans East" by the city. Why would they call it that if it weren't part of Orleans? -- Earl Andrew - talk 00:33, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't dispute any of what you say in your last discussion post. I will not revert the page again, but I feel it should be clarified. The MapArt Road Atlas is not a government printed map, and the map I directed you to was. You can certainly call the 174 'The Queensway'. However the official MTO position is that 'The Queensway' refers to the 417 from Boundary Road to the 416. It was on the page I posted. Nonetheless, I don't have a problem with that. But at least clarify the page so it states that the section of Queensway to which you are referring is technically known as R.R. 174.

The city map you showed is a post-amalgamation map. Further, it is a map of suburban neighborhoods, as it is titled. You will note that the communities of Mer Bleu and South March, among others, do not correspond to administrative jurisdictions, which is the change I made. You are ignoring fact.

I will concede that I am not absolutely sure that all of what has been, or is now considered Orleans, fell within the pre-amalgamation administrative jurisdiction of Gloucester. Yet, you can't deny that at least part of it did. The page to which I directed you was proof of that. Further, I lived in Orleans for quite a few years, pre, and post-amalgamation. Park signs all bore the city of Gloucester logo. Further, our tax bill was from the city of Gloucester. I think clarifications to the page are in order, but since you reject mine, I ask you or someone else to make them.

I am disappointed that you refuted evidence from government sources with "Map Art Road Map". Following that logic, I could prove that R.R. 174 doesn't exist! But rather that it is called Highway 17, as mapquest purports. You are no friend of wikipedia, or academia. It is also sad that you are unable to admit you are wrong. To those who use wikipedia, I strongly urge you to never rely on it. It's accuracy is in my opinion highly questionable. You should go back to your fantastical 'Amerada'... lol...Intothedark

 * Your personal attacks on me prove that you are nothing but a vandal. Obviously half of Orleans is in Gloucester. Of course the parks signs in that half are going to be for Gloucester. However, *part* of Orleans is also in Cumberland. This is a fact. -- Earl Andrew - talk 07:50, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I would just to add a point to this HEATED debate that some older maps mentionned about an existant Cumberland Township (embedded inside the old Cumberland) that covered the eastern part of Orleans (from Place d'Orleans or Champlain Street and east) with Cumberland east of that until Rockland, although the Pathfinder Map (from Carp, Ontario by the way) in the later pages put a figure of the Ottawa-Carleton region with just Cumberland which makes it confusing. But I find this odd that they had designated Cumberland Township for the populated portion instead of Cumberland period. I know that formally that land wasn't occupied (thus was a township before the Orleans sprawl) until the mid or late 1980's, and maybe they didn't bother changing it or it is just an error by the map company. Anyway I think the Township part was probably run by the former city of Cumberland. --JForget 03:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

 * As someone who grew up in Queenswood Heights and has lived here his entire life let me set everyone straight. Orleans west of Champlain (even after it a big part of it was removed for the expansion of Place D'Orleans in the late 80's) and following south along the Bilberry Creek Trail, south to Navan Road, north to the river, west to Youville (and up along an imaginary line drawn from where Youville meets St. Joseph) was under the administrative control of Gloucester City Council and your postal address could be either "Orleans" or "Gloucester".  East of Champlain was under the control of the Township of Cumberland.  The Township of Cumberland became the City of Cumberland in 1996 and then became part of Ottawa.  Orleans was just an area of the city that happened to have its administrative control split between two cities.  For all intents and purposes, most people considered the "Cumberland portion" of Orleans to extend from the Champlain/Ravine line in the west, north to the river, east to Trim, and south to Navan Road.  As far as the "Queensway" debate goes while RR 174 is colloquially referred to by many as being "The Queensway", the official definition for "The Queensway" is the Boundary Road to 416 interchange portion of the 417.  But that's just semantics, really.  I think what really matters is what everyone calls it.  Heck, part of me still calls it Highway 17... 206.191.52.229 (talk) 13:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

french version
I've been making links in french articles to Orléans, but it always brings to Orléans, french. I go to the disambigous to Orléans, Ontario, but it still redirects to France. Does anyone know if there is a french version to this article? I also wrote a note in the disambugous page paat 22:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * A page does not exist, I just checked and fixed the error. -- Earl Andrew - talk 23:36, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks Earl Andrew paat 23:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

East of Trim Road
Is the developping part east of Trim Road (Springridge & Valin) part of Fallingbrook or is a different community.--JForget 17:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Pic of Orléans
What should the pic include? Blv St. Joseph, Orléans main road? Or Innes maybe - since its all new?... paat 02:07, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

St-Joseph could be used as the first photo since it was the main street when it was still a village. Probably also photos of newer areas can be put in the article as well.--JForget 22:16, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I have added two historical pictures of Orleans taken on June 1, 1982 to the "History" section of this article. I found them while going through and sorting/digitizing a large collection of unsorted photographs taken by various members of my family. The pictures show Place as it existed then as well as the old Normandy Hotel and the intersection of Champlain and Highway 17. As a lifelong resident of the area I suspect I will come across many other interesting historical shots of Orleans as my photographic sorting project continues and I will contribute more as appropriate.Php man (talk) 13:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I have added a new pic that I found in the family archives. This picture shows St. Joseph Blvd. near Place D'Orleans (looking towards the Duford hill) as it appeared circa 1971 (the picture was taken by my father while looking at our future home in Queenswood Heights). At the same time I removed the picture that was basically a duplicate of the Place image (showing a zoom of the Champlain/Highway 17 intersection). I have a few other images (a reverse view looking down the Duford hill in 1971 and two images of Place shortly after construction in 1979). Is there interest in establishing a picture gallery here? I will gladly donate them. Php man (talk) 18:39, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Notting Gate
Thanks for giving a precision. I've thought it was called Millenium, considering OC Transpo has put Millenium as a future transit station probably based on the developping area near Trim Road.--JForget 22:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

"Nickname: Whorleans"?
WTF? 67.68.18.74 00:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation
The article contends that English residents typically pronounce it "orleenz", which is true. But it then goes on to say that this is similar to how english people pronounce New Orleans. In my experience, this is not true. English people typically pronounce New Orleans "new or-lee-ins" (3 syllables), which is different than the local "or-leenz" (2 syllables). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.81.255.51 (talk) 10:19, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I have fixed it, by deleting the phrase saying the pronunciations are the same. Now, it merely gives the local pronunciation. (-Belegdal)

Orléans or Orleans
The City of Ottawa refers to the neighbourhood as "Orléans", and the ward also uses the accent (City of Ottawa - Ward 1 - Orléans). Should the entire article not be consistent with this usage? If "Orléans" is simply the "native name" (not common or official name) then the article should be moved to Orleans, Ontario. -M.Nelson (talk) 04:19, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I had placed the accented name in the native_name field to follow the same format as the infobox on the article Montreal. It has since been changed, so I've moved the accented version in the official_name field accordingly. As for this article, it probably should be moved over to Orleans, Ontario considering the non-accented spelling is more common in English, which takes precedence over the official name according to WP:CANSTYLE/WP:PLACE. —  Io Katai  ᵀᵃˡᵏ  04:45, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Agreed, I'm all for the move. Po' buster (talk) 00:29, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Concerning the following edits, stating that "Orleans" is the official name is a misnomer as M.Nelson pointed out. The common anglophone spelling only takes precedence over the official spelling in the usage within the article and in article's title itself (hence why we write Beijing, rather than 北京). It does not replace the official title itself, so the infobox should remain as-is. —  Io Katai  ᵀᵃˡᵏ  02:54, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

 * But "Orléans" isn't an official name. It is simply a name referred to by "sometimes" by the City. There is no official status. I remember driving by the "Orleans" sign as a kid without the "é" and some french resident had spray painted an accent. I think it should remain Orleans as the official, which it is. Po' buster (talk) 14:10, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Actually, the spelling with the accent is the official name in both French and English. Take a look at the signs today, they'll pretty much all have an accent (example), as does Place d'Orléans, local newspapers such as Orléans Online and Orléans Star, and the City of Ottawa's website itself among others. The use of the non-accented name was challenged a little over 20 years ago (a dispute which was also noted in Paul Demers' song Notre Place in 1989), and the accent was officially adopted on July 10th, 1990. If you can read French, this article highlights that part of Orleans' history. —  Io Katai  ᵀᵃˡᵏ  17:46, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Fair enough, however it should still list english first on english wikipedia. For example the Beijing article list Beijing, and than 北京 underneath, Not the other way around. Po' buster (talk) 18:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

 * True, but neither of those two are official names, and it's ultimately the template that controls their positioning. I would suggest bringing up the matter over to their talk rather than introduce a factual error to have the names listed in reverse. —  Io Katai  ᵀᵃˡᵏ  19:34, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I remember Gloucester officially changing the spelling of the community (thanks for that source, Io). Orléans is the official English spelling.  Orleans is obviously a common English usage. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 21:54, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Considering accents don't exist in the english language it would be impossible for "Orléans" to be the official english spelling. Po' buster (talk) 21:58, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Whether diacritics are used in English is asides the point, the common spelling is still not the official spelling, i.e. the one used in all official documents, signs and whatnot. With computers, adding accents is hardly an issue, and when you're in a strongly bilingually-inclined city as Ottawa, the accent will continue to prevail even in English. —  Io Katai  ᵀᵃˡᵏ  22:24, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Go with Orleans, Ontario. This is the English-language Wikipedia, not Canadian Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 22:29, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

 * We're not arguing the title of the page, I already stated that Orleans, Ontario should be used per earlier-mentioned guidelines (someone just has to get an admin to move the page over a redirect). Wikipedia's policy does not, however, change the official spelling as used by the City and community itself (i.e. in the infobox). —  Io Katai  ᵀᵃˡᵏ  22:33, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Concerning the infobox, either delete the french version or make the english version prominant. GoodDay (talk) 22:35, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

 * There's no reason to delete the accented name, it is still used in English. That's like telling Beijing they aren't allowed to write 北京, or Malé that they're not allowed to have an accent in their infobox because that's your personal preference. Don't let your personal bias get the better of you. If you have a problem with how the official and common spellings are sorted in the infobox, then discuss the matter with the infobox people, not here. —  Io Katai  ᵀᵃˡᵏ  22:41, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * At least, make the english version prominant. Afterall, this is the English-language Wikipedia. GoodDay (talk) 22:46, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

 * The accented name is not used in english. It was adopted by the City after numerous complaints of french residents (usually former Quebecers) trying to push the french agenda. WP:CANSTYLE/WP:PLACE indicates "the title needs to be what an English speaker would most likely recognize as the usual name of the subject in actual usage" and "For geographic names, again, the current practice is to reflect actual English usage" .... Orléans is not the english usage, Orleans is, the article needs to be moved. Po' buster (talk) 22:53, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Once again, feel free to move the article anytime. I already stated that from the start, now you're just regurgitating the guidelines I provided earlier and arguing an already dead argument. —  Io Katai  ᵀᵃˡᵏ  22:57, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I've already tried, unsuccessfully. GoodDay (talk) 22:58, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I made the request and modified the infobox since everyone loves to complain but no one seems to want to actually do anything. The page should be moved in no time. —  Io Katai  ᵀᵃˡᵏ  23:35, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. GoodDay (talk) 23:37, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Orleans, Ontario


text:
Black Coffee (All Saints song)

"Black Coffee" is a song by English girl group All Saints from their second studio album, Saints & Sinners (2000). It was released on 2 October 2000 by London Records as the album's second single. The track was produced by William Orbit, and written by Tom Nichols, Alexander von Soos and Kirsty Bertarelli (credited as Kirsty Elizabeth), initially intended as a single for Kirsty under the title "I Wouldn't Wanna Be". It is a mellow electropop, acid techno and R&B song, unique for its production-laden sound featuring breathy keyboards, glitching electronics and elements of ambient music. A wistful love song, its lyrics stem from Kirsty's relationship with Swiss entrepreneur Ernesto Bertarelli, detailing feelings of love at first sight and contentment.

The track was met with general acclaim from music critics who likened it to the group's previous single "Pure Shores" for their wistful chorus delivery and Orbit's distinctive production. Its unconventional structure was also cited as influential upon the sound of later girl groups such as the Sugababes and Girls Aloud. A commercial success, "Black Coffee" marked All Saints' fifth and final number-one single in the UK. It also reached the top 10 in Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Sweden.

Bo Johan Renck directed the accompanying music video which features the group serenading an arguing couple in bullet time in a high rise apartment block. All Saints promoted "Black Coffee" with live performances on CD:UK, Children in Need, Later... with Jools Holland, Top of the Pops and at the 2000 Smash Hits Poll Winners Party. Much group in-fighting happened during the promotion of the single, prompting tense live renditions and eventually causing the group to split up in 2001, acrimoniously.

Background
"Black Coffee" was written by Tom Nichols, Alexander von Soos and Kirsty Bertarelli. It is the only All Saints original single not to be written by group member Shaznay Lewis. The song was initially recorded by Kirsty Bertarelli under the title "I Wouldn't Wanna Be". She first wrote the song, basing it on her relationship with Swiss entrepreneur Ernesto Bertarelli who she met on his yacht off the coast of Sardinia in 1997. Gary Davies, a BBC Radio 1 DJ and Kirsty's manager, passed on the track's production to Nichols who was also under his management at the time. Nichols developed "I Wouldn't Wanna Be" as a quirky pop song, something "slightly out of the ordinary" and "slightly left of centre, not completely mainstream".

Believing the track could be established as a single for Bertarelli, Davies canvassed record companies with her demo, hoping it could result in a major label deal for the singer. The song received a positive reaction from London Records where Davies played it to the label's executive Tracy Bennett. However, Bennett was unimpressed with Bertarelli's potential and wanted "I Wouldn't Wanna Be" to be recorded by his group All Saints instead which Davies, Kirsty and Nichols all agreed to.

New arrangement and recording
After much time had passed since the recording arrangement, Nichols stressed whether All Saints were going to record the song at all. Over 40 songs were written for the group's second album, Saints & Sinners, for which William Orbit was enlisted to produce, but Orbit's popularity at the time made it difficult for All Saints to meet with him in studio. It was only after the release of the album's lead single "Pure Shores" in February 2000 that they began working on a follow-up together. Orbit along with Lewis and group member Melanie Blatt gave "I Wouldn't Wanna Be" a new arrangement and renamed the song "Black Coffee".

Recording took place at Guerilla Beach and Larrabee West in Los Angeles, and at Sarm West and Olympic Studios in London. According to Blatt, their collaboration with Orbit allowed All Saints to explore more experimental genres than those of their previous releases, while Nichols viewed Orbit's production in the new arrangement completely different, and better than that of his own on the original. The "Black Coffee" sessions were more frustrating for group member Natalie Appleton who saw the song as an opportunity for fellow member Nicole Appleton and herself to sing lead vocals for a change because it was not written by Lewis. In the Appletons' 2002 autobiography Together, Natalie wrote that Lewis was "staking her claim" by arriving early for the first session because Blatt sang lead vocals on "Pure Shores" and not her. Per Natalie's suggestion, management eventually let her cut a lead vocal, but she was nervous during the recording and believed they were placating her. "Without support, it is hard to do your best," Natalie recalled in Together, adding that she felt "used and slacked off".

Music and lyrics
"Black Coffee" is composed in the time signature of common time with a moderately fast tempo of 120 beats per minute, following a chord progression of E–Bm–D–A in the chorus and Bm7–E–Bm7–E elsewhere. It is an electropop song with elements of acid techno, ambient and R&B music. The song has an unconventional structure with different sections being dislocated from one another. It is also unique for being more production-laden in comparison with other pop songs.

"Black Coffee" opens with a stark introduction sung by Lewis, accompanied only by glitching electronics with no chord progression, before going into the pre-chorus where a more mellow sequence featuring breathy keyboards begin playing. In the chorus, the song becomes wistful featuring Natalie on lead vocals singing a call and response with Blatt. A subsequent verse sung by Lewis returns to the eerie and sinister sound of her introduction. After the second chorus, the song enters into a bridge where the group hum and Lewis sings two lines from the pre-chorus, "Each moment is cool / Freeze the moment". The track later ends in an outro sung by Lewis using the same lyrics and starker sound from her introduction, but enhanced by guitar, synths and welding, clipped dance rhythms.

A sad love song, the lyrics narrate feelings of love at first sight and contentment. According to Kirsty, "Black Coffee" recalls how she met Bertarelli during a time when they did a lot of sailing near Sardinia and did not want to be elsewhere. Some of the lyrics suggest disharmony and bitterness during the relationship, chronicling more domestic scenarios such as chain smoking and drinking black coffee. The song also has a gender bender theme, encouraging women to make "the first move" instead of men.

Release
London Records serviced "Black Coffee" to UK radio on 22 August 2000 and released it physically on 2 October 2000 as the second single from Saints & Sinners. It was accompanied by the B-side "I Don't Wanna Be Alone", written by Lewis, Ali Tennant, Wayne Hector and K-Gee. Ellen von Unwerth photographed the single's cover art. Several remixes were commissioned, including one by the Wideboys, and another by the Neptunes which featured a rap by American duo Clipse. In Japan, "Black Coffee" was released as a CD single on 12 October 2000. In January 2001, a "Black Coffee" sequel was released as a B-side to the album's third single "All Hooked Up".

Critical reception
"Black Coffee" received acclaim from music critics upon release. Simon Evans writing in the Birmingham Post described the song as a "beautiful slice of haunting, hypnotic pop". John Mulvey of The Scotsman praised its "sleek, scrupulously mature sound", while AllMusic's Jon O'Brien regarded it among All Saints' most accomplished and mature work, highlighting its "lush electronics". David Brinn of The Jerusalem Post found the song wistful and radio-friendly. In the Sunday Herald, Samuel McGuire characterised the track as "a gem of a truly wonderous lustre"; the newspaper's Graeme Virtue hailed it as one of "the best pop singles ever". BBC Music's Nigel Packer chose the song as a highlight on Saints & Sinners, while Russell Baillie of The New Zealand Herald said "Black Coffee" along with "Pure Shores" and "Surrender" "put [most of the album] in the shade." The Sunday People's Sean O'Brien gave "Black Coffee" a rating of eight out of ten.

In the NME, Siobhan Grogan called the song almost perfect, writing that "it's wistful in all the right places and makes sadness sound rather alluring like only the bitterest love songs can." Grogan also compared it to "Pure Shores" saying that it "has the same mellow, glossy haziness to it, as if they recorded it lying down." Similarly, Eva Simpson of the Daily Mirror wrote that the track "brought the same high-gloss sheen" as "Pure Shores" and cited it as a curtain raiser for Saints & Sinners. A Western Mail reviewer viewed the two songs as "equally tremendous", while The Guardian's Caroline Sullivan found "Black Coffee" superior, describing it as "beguiling treatment of a domestic scenario" and "easily the most alluring depiction of a bleary-eyed morning routine ever recorded." Sullivan also said All Saints "lend radiance to [Orbit's] twinkling fairy lights." Lindsay Baker from the same newspaper deemed it Saints & Sinners' "particularly infectious" track, while R.S. Murthi of the New Straits Times called it the album's most endearing song, likening it to releases by the Cocteau Twins. In a negative review, Hot Press magazine's John Walshe dismissed the group's harmonies as "so saccharine they could have been copyrighted by NutraSweet".

"Black Coffee" appeared on Dotmusic and the NME's year-end lists at number 3 and 26 respectively. Q magazine included it in its list of 1010 Songs You Must Own. "Black Coffee" has continued to receive praise in retrospective reviews. According to the Daily Mirror's Ian Sturgess, the track "boasts one of the most infectious pop choruses of all time." Clem Bastow of The Sydney Morning Herald said the song in particular won All Saints "major critical points" over the Spice Girls and complemented their "impeccable back catalogue". In the Daily Record, Julie MacCaskill wrote that "Black Coffee" along with "Pure Shores", "Under the Bridge" and "Never Ever" are a testament to the group's "pop power". Christie Leo writing in the New Straits Times opined, "The aromatic shimmer of 'Black Coffee' alone is all the evidence you'll need to know that All Saints were truly heavenly." In 2016, Digital Spy's Lewis Corner placed the song at number three in his ranking of All Saints singles, highlighting its "euphoric" chorus and deeming it "pop-form caffeine".

Chart performance
In October 2000, "Black Coffee" debuted at number one on the UK Singles Chart with first-week sales of 60,000 copies, making All Saints only the second girl group, after the Spice Girls, to achieve five number-one singles in the UK. The song dropped to number three in its second week and spent 21 weeks on the chart in total. It was certified silver by the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) in October 2000, and sold 230,000 copies in the UK by 2008. According to the Official Charts Company, "Black Coffee" is the group's fourth best-selling single in the UK.

The song also had success across Europe, peaking at number five on the European Hot 100 Singles chart for two consecutive weeks, and reaching the top 10 in Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands (Dutch Top 40) and Sweden,   and the top 20 in Finland and Norway. In Australia, the track entered the ARIA Charts at number 29 and peaked at number 20 for two consecutive weeks. On the New Zealand Singles Chart, it debuted at number 40 and reached number seven, marking All Saints' fifth top 10 single there. The international success of "Black Coffee" helped launch both Kirsty's and Nichols' musical careers. Kirsty earned royalties of over £12,000, while Nichols stated in an interview for HitQuarters, "when that song was released, the opportunities that [I got] certainly in the UK, but also Europe-wide, [were] absolutely huge."

Music video
Directed by Bo Johan Renck, the music video for "Black Coffee" was filmed at Ealing Studios in London on 17 August 2000. Renck specially edited it as All Saints were not on speaking terms at the time and requested for their scenes to be shot separately. According to a report by the Daily Mirror, the group formed two camps with the Appletons on one side, and Lewis and Blatt on the other. Bullet time effects similar to that from the 1999 film The Matrix were used, being considered state of the art at the time. The video aired on 4 September 2000 to heavy rotation from MTV Europe. Opening with a night time view of a high rise apartment block, the music video sees the group singing from the block's rooftop. A couple are shown arguing in one of the apartments while the group appear invisible beside them. The couple throw clothes and pillows at each other, among other things. Their aggressive behaviour is frozen each time while the group serenade them. The girlfriend later sits in a corner and cries before the video ends with frozen shots of each All Saints member in the apartment after the couple have left.

Jon Stewart, author of Oh Blessed Holy Caffeine Tree: Coffee in Popular Music, wrote that the video put emphasis on the romantic disharmony of the lyrics. Stewart also noted that the video's upmarket location promoted caffeine as a beverage for the upper class. CBC Television placed "Black Coffee" at number five in its ranking of the group's music videos, praising the special effects and combination of "an angelic serenade during an argument". Digital Spy's Lewis Corner said the video portrayed when cracks within All Saints began showing; "There's a reason they don't appear alongside each other in the music video: by then, they couldn't physically stand each other."

Live performances
To promote "Black Coffee" in September and October 2000, All Saints performed it on television shows such as CD:UK, the BBC People's Awards, T4, Top of the Pops and the Pepsi Chart Show. On 18 November 2000, the group performed "Black Coffee" along with "Pure Shores" and "Whoopin' Over You" on Later... with Jools Holland. A number of All Saints' renditions of "Black Coffee" were marred by in-group tension and fighting. The group were not on speaking terms at the time of their Children in Need performance on 17 November 2000 after Nicole announced her pregnancy the night before. According to the Appleton sisters, they were completely ignored by Lewis and Blatt during their performance at the Smash Hits Poll Winners Party on 10 December 2000. The performance was later criticised by The Guardian's Betty Clarke who wrote, "Only All Saints let the side down, going through the motions..." At the Capital FM Christmas Party, Natalie and Lewis nearly came to blows backstage over who would wear a particular jacket causing an onstage rift during the performance and ultimately, All Saints splitting up the following year.

In 2014, All Saints reunited and performed "Black Coffee" as part of their setlist as special guests on the Backstreet Boys' In a World Like This Tour. The group also performed the song during their Red Flag Tour in 2016, and as an opening act for Take That's 2017 tour, Wonderland Live.

Impact and usage in media
The Scotman's Fiona Shepherd wrote that the "smart-pop attack" of "Black Coffee" paved the way for British girl groups such as Girls Aloud and Sugababes. Similarly, Irish singer Neil Hannon cited the song's unconventional production as influential; "Girls Aloud do pop like ['Black Coffee'] now: songs like 'Biology' are a bit weird, and they flout the general rules, and I admire that. But 'Black Coffee' is better." In 2007, the track was included in the competitive music video game series SingStar.

In 2004 year German musician Markus Guentner used chorus and some samples for his track with same name "Black Coffee" which was released on Detective Stories EP (Ware Recordings).

In December 2023, Center Parcs used the track in a UK TV advertising campaign.

Formats and track listings

 * CD1 and cassette single
 * 1) "Black Coffee" – 4:49
 * 2) "I Don't Wanna Be Alone" – 4:20
 * 3) "Black Coffee" (ATFC's Freshly Ground vocal) – 7:46
 * CD2 single
 * 1) "Black Coffee" – 4:49
 * 2) "Black Coffee" (The Neptunes remix) – 4:43
 * 3) "Black Coffee" (The Wideboys Espresso mix) – 5:19
 * CD maxi-single
 * 1) "Black Coffee" – 4:49
 * 2) "I Don't Wanna Be Alone" – 4:20
 * 3) "Black Coffee" (The Wideboys Espresso mix) – 5:19
 * 4) "Black Coffee" (ATFC's Freshly Ground vocal) – 7:46

 * 7-inch single
 * 1) "Black Coffee" – 4:49
 * 2) "I Don't Wanna Be Alone" – 4:20
 * 12-inch single (The Remixes)
 * 1) "Black Coffee" (ATFC's Freshly Ground vocal) – 7:46
 * 2) "Black Coffee" (The Neptunes remix) – 4:43
 * 3) "Black Coffee" (The Wideboys Espresso mix) – 5:19
 * 4) "Black Coffee" (Shadow Snipers vocal mix) – 6:21

Personnel
Credits are adapted from the liner notes of Saints & Sinners.

 * Shaznay Lewis – new arrangement, vocals, vocal arrangement
 * Melanie Blatt – new arrangement, vocals, vocal arrangement
 * William Orbit – new arrangement, producer, vocal arrangement, guitar, keyboards, synths
 * Mark "Spike" Stent – mixing
 * Clif Norrell – engineer
 * Ren Swan – engineer
 * Sean Spuehler – engineer, Pro Tools, programming, keyboards
 * Iain Robertson – engineer
 * Tom Hannen – assistant engineer
 * Michelle Forbes – assistant engineer
 * Nicole Appleton – vocals
 * Natalie Appleton – vocals
 * Jan Kybert – Pro Tools mix engineer, assistant mix engineer

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Black Coffee (All Saints song)


text:
Talk:Nepean, Ontario

Climate????
I live in nepean, and there isnt really much of a climate here... Its cold, and then it get's hot. We arent exactly a separate region here, we have the same climate as Ottawa, toronto, Kingston, etc... however we sometimes get more lucky than toronto, because it snows there and less here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.1.206.187 (talk) 18:56, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to wonder if there is actually separate climate data for Nepean. Environment Canada does not appear to keep such data. They have data for Ottawa (Kanata - Orléans), and they can sometimes breakout downtown Ottawa from the airport. Unless a source can be shown for this climate data it should be removed. Climate data may be more appropriately included on the Ottawa page. djblackwood (talk) 15:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

2006 census
Nepean's population isn't independently reported by the Canadian Census anymore...2006 census figure is calculated by summing all of Nepean's component census tracts. Marathone 09:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Tom Bremner of Nepean
Just curious - how noteworthy is this person's supposed status as "statistician, GIS expert, and all around good guy"? --Samf-nz (talk) 08:37, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Education
I've just redesigned the Education section, updating the list to include all current schools listed in the Ottawa-Carleton School Board and Catholic School Board's respective directories. Some schools may have been wrongfully deleted (especially from the Catholic list) because their addresses are currently listed as Ottawa and not Nepean for whatever reason; this may require additional research. I also added a few internal Wikipedia links to schools that have their own pages, but there are probably more that could be added.

I also wonder what could be done with the closed section; I don't know if this is more up-to-date or not, but perhaps it could be better correlated to this list. In fact, these lists need to match for active schools as well, but all I've confirmed so far are the elementary schools.

And yes, I did accidentally replace the entire Nepean page with the education section - undo, undo! Oyster Flute (talk) 16:00, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Map ?
needs a map 70.26.2.111 (talk) 13:04, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nepean, Ontario


text: Talk:Old Ottawa East

title: Talk:Old Ottawa East


text:
Talk:New Edinburgh

Boundaries
The boundary description flies in the face of actual geography, describing features that run east-to-west as "western" and "eastern" borders, and features that run north-to-south as "northern" and "southern"border. I realize that the New Edinburgh community association website echoes these borders, but the page in question explicitly note that it is text "taken from Wikipedia", and can be traced back to an earlier, unsourced version of the article that already introduced the "Ottawa river to the north, Rideau river to the west, Beechwood to the south" nonsense. --Guillaume Hébert-Jodoin (talk) 18:26, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

 * (Note, the source in question has been moved to here). This is an itneresting case. I'd say that if they are putting it on their website, they must agree with the borders, which I'd say is good enough as a source. Of course, a neighbourhood association's definition is just one definition, as other sources could differ. Google for example includes the area northeast of Rideau Terrace as being in New Edinburgh. -- Earl Andrew - talk 14:25, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

 * The problem is not the border themselves ; the problem is the cardinal direction we give to those borders. The so-called "western" border runs along the southern edge of the neighborhood ; the "southern" border runs covers a small segment to the west-south-west, the eastern borders actually does cover part of the eastern edge, but most of the north as well, and the northern border runs along the western edge. In other words, the boundaries as written make absolutely no sense. --Guillaume Hébert-Jodoin (talk) 05:16, 4 August 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:New Edinburgh


text:
Talk:Ernest Rutherford

 * Change "as a New Zealand-born British physicist who came to be known as the father of nuclear physics" to "as a New Zealand physicist who came to be known as the father of nuclear physics" (Jan 2022)
 * "Edit war" over nationality (July 2008)

Discovery of protons and neutrons
Presently, the article states that Rutherford's discovery of the proton ("hydrogen atom") occurred during his time at Cambridge. This page, however, states that this work was performed while at Manchester. It seems to me that the research may have begun at one institution and ended at another. I'm having a hard time deliberating as to how this discrepancy may be noted concisely and whether it is significant to the validity and structure of the article. Doughbo (talk) 01:05, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

 * Edmund Whittaker starts his Vol II with a chapter called "The Age of Rutherford".
 * He says that Rutherford published his idea that the "positive electron" was the "hydrogen atom" 1913-1914 and references the original articles.
 * Indeed we can read:
 * Rutherford, Ernest. "The structure of the atom." Philosophical Magazine 27 (1914): 488-498.
 * http://www.ub.edu/hcub/hfq/sites/default/files/ruth1914%285%29.pdf
 * "It is well known from the experiments of Sir J. J. Thom- son and others, that no positively charged carrier has been observed of mass less than that of the hydrogen atom. The exceedingly small dimensions found for the hydrogen nucleus add weight to the suggestion that the hydrogen nucleus is the positive electron, and that its mass is entirely electro- magnetic in origin."
 * Therefore the concept that linked the hydrogen nucleus to the unit positive charge dates from 1914. From 1914-1918 Whittaker states that Rutherford was involved in WWI issues. In early 1919 he did a series of experiments pinning down the earlier "suggestion". In particular he showed that particles ejected by alpha particles colliding with hydrogen have unit charge and 1/4 the momentum of alpha particles.
 * The abstract of one of the key papers is available here:https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786440608635917?journalCode=tphm17
 * In Summer of 1919 he moved to Cambridge and continued the work. But these experiments were to confirm that alpha particles breakdown Nitrogen nuclei and the nature of the products.
 * Therefore my conclusion is that the article mixes up the timeline. The proton discovery was in Manchester; the naming came after he was in Cambridge.
 * HTH Johnjbarton (talk) 02:25, 13 June 2023 (UTC) Johnjbarton (talk) 02:25, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your illuminating research. I've augmented the article text and cited your sources where appropriate. Doughbo (talk) 19:22, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * NP, hit me up if you run into a similar issue in the area of history of science of light and early QM. Johnjbarton (talk) 21:27, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Dismissal of practical use of nuclear energy
Shouldn't Rutherford's famous dismissal of the practical use of nuclear energy in 1933 be included in the article? It reportedly inspired Szilard to come up with his theory of a nuclear chain reaction. 90.143.21.126 (talk) 11:27, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Alleged doctoral student supervision
Greetings.

A recurring theme on the pages of Nazir Ahmed, Daulat Singh Kothari and Rafi Muhammad Chaudhry are the claims they studied under Ernest Rutherford.

 * 1) The claim for Ahmed is definitely unsupported by what-was allegedly the reference that claimed he studied under Rutherford ("apparently at the University of Manchester").
 * 2) For Muhammed Chaudry, we are given an incredibly simple website that provides no citations and makes a similar claim. How is this proof?
 * 3) For Kothari, I could not find any evidence he was supervised by Rutherford.
 * * I did find that he had a PhD from a PRS paper, but this paper actually suggests he was supervised by Meghanad Saha (https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/epdf/10.1098/rspa.1937.0200), who communicated/vouched for his work.
 * * I encourage readers to also view this critique of one of Kothari's later papers *at the time he published it* https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.1655874
 * In my view, this type of work would not have met the expectations of Lord Rutherford.

In short, I continually find these names listed under Lord Rutherford, who is now stated as among the greatest scientists of all time, and yet each of these individuals' pages does not provide any adequate citation or evidence that they were indeed supervised by him.

To me, it seems politically motivated to keep these names on the list. There is no proof. The supplied proof is far from what we accept for other pages, why are they deemed acceptable here?

We require a very high bar to modify influences on scientists like Isaac Newton or Archimedes, so why aren't the same stringent criteria being applied to individuals allegedly supervised by Rutherford?

If this is all true, surely there's a wikipedian at Cambridge or the-likes who can provide us with the citation cards.

This question has been asked before Talk:Ernest_Rutherford/Archive_1 and no one had an answer. What is going on? 172.219.6.108 (talk) 19:27, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Regarding: Rafi Muhammad Chaudhry
 * "Concrete Quarks" George Zweig
 * "All told, eleven of Rutherford's students, collaborators, and members of his laboratory went on to receive the Nobel Prize in Physics or Chemistry. Many more made remarkable but less recognized contributions. Rafi Muhammad Chaudhry went on to pioneer experimental nuclear physics in Pakistan, and with his student Mustafa Yar Khan, founded Pakistan's successful nuclear weapons program."
 * Status Of Theoretical Understanding And Of Experimental Power For Lhc Physics And Beyond - 50th Anniversary Celebration Of The Quark - Proceedings Of The International School Of Subnuclear Physics. Singapore, World Scientific Publishing Company, 2016.
 * --- Johnjbarton (talk) 20:39, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Also confirmed by:
 * Mahaffey, James. Atomic Adventures. United States, Pegasus Books, 2017.
 * Here is an online link the Zweig's chapter.
 * https://www.epj-conferences.org/articles/epjconf/pdf/2014/08/epjconf_icnfp2013_00146.pdf Johnjbarton (talk) 20:42, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The critique of Daulat Singh Kothari is completely bogus. The title of the linked article is "Comments on the Paper ``Grain Growth during Sintering of Tungsten''"  It concerns a paper by NC Kothari in 1967. Johnjbarton (talk) 21:00, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Cantor, Geoffrey. “The Making of a British Theoretical Physicist: E. C. Stoner’s Early Career.” The British Journal for the History of Science, vol. 27, no. 3, 1994, pp. 277–90. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/4027599. Accessed 27 Aug. 2023.
 * Places Nazir Ahmed (physicist) in Rutherfords group. Johnjbarton (talk) 21:07, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, based on reliable sources, this claim that these eminent Pakistani nuclear scientist did not get their PhD with Rutherford is completely unfounded.
 * I am puzzled, based on the evidence that I found easily, what motivated this bogus claim?
 * Johnjbarton (talk) 21:10, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Johnjbarton (talk) 21:10, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

 * In the words of the original poster: "seems politically motivated". I'd bet this unregistered account is an experienced user seeking to mask their islamophobia. Doughbo (talk) 02:10, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A recent edit on Nazir Ahmed (physicist) from the same account has the edit summary:
 * (he wasn't pakistani either, just fyi. he ran with us for 25 years, so he's one of us. he's not one of them. pakistan's existence came at our expense and a broken promise) Johnjbarton (talk) 18:17, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 * We now have sources showing that these three people got Cambridge PhDs and worked with Rutherford. Johnjbarton (talk) 22:48, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

 * First of all, I admit error on Kothari. I didn't pay attention to the first initials.
 * Secondly, your claims about Ahmed are not supported by any WP:RS. Pegasus books? is that a joke?
 * The claim about Ahmed being supervised by Rutherford are allegedly in the "The Making of a British Theoretical Physicist: E. C. Stoner’s Early Career." is incorrect. The passage which you cunningly refer to as evidence is this:
 * "It is significant that his closest friend at the Cavendish was another outsider, a Muslim student from India named Nazir Ahmad, who likewise felt neglected by Rutherford and his inner circle."

 * However the beginning of this passage merely states the person-of-interest, Stoner, was at Cambridge. So all this does is place Ahmed at Cavendish but it does not support any claim that he was supervised by Rutherford.
 * The Zweig source merely shows that Chaudhury was apart of the research group. It is established practice in Wikipedia that being in specific individual's research group does *not* constitute supervision. So, this would be "other students"
 * So correct me if I am wrong, you have not provided any reliable sources refuting my claims. You merely provided secondary sources, none of which conclusively state they were his students. What they state is that
 * Chaudhury was a part of the same research group as Rutherford
 * Ahmed was a member of the Cavendish laboratory at the same time as Stoner
 * Kothari miraculously remains unaddressed because apparently my request for real evidence is founded by politics.
 * It is YOUR job to show they were his students. the easiest way to do that is to pull the theses from the archives. the fact no one has proves they were not SUPERVISED by rutherford.

 * edit: I have done some more reading on E.C. Stoner. The source you provided suggests he was supervised by Rutherford, but I am not sure if that was the case. I know that your source does say Rutherford and Wilson were his co-supervisors. Anyways, I did follow some of that material which lead me to this:
 * https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/epdf/10.1098/rspa.1924.0050
 * but, this merely suggests that Ahmad and E.C. Stoner worked in the laboratory together, closely.
 * This is also supported by the source you are mainly relying on for Ahmad.
 * If we are to use inference, [b]then Stoner went on to complete his thesis shortly after the publication I've shared (Early 1924), with Rutherford as his examiner (September 1924). So, we could probably add this to Stoner and Rutherford's infobox.[/b]
 * That is a nice addition on your part, but we cannot infer something similar for Nazir Ahmad. It does move the goalposts, yes, but now Ahmad is in the category as Chaudhry, where you can say they were in the research group but not directly supervised by Rutherford. Kothari also needs support.

 * edit2: Again, more digging. This time I found something by Chadwick that I thought you would try to use as a weapon. Specifically Chadwick stated
 * "We naturally speculated about the properties of the new nucleus formed in this way, and Rutherford suggested, taking up an idea he had had in Montreal, that the new nucleus might be unstable and so radioactive. This idea was tested by Shenstone, who looked for the emission of heavy particles which might produce scintillations, and by Ahmad, who looked for the emission of any radiation by an ionization method."

 * So, naturally, being who I am, I looked further.
 * I ended up at Shenstone's memoir because I figured if I can show he wasn't a student of Rutherford's, in spite of investigating an idea spitballed by Da Baron, then you could not use this as an argument to support supervision for Ahmad.
 * Indeed the memoir conclusively states that while Shenstone intended to do research under Sir J.J, it never materialised because of the war, and Sir J.J. had retired and been replaced by Da Baron.
 * so my argument is getting stronger. I am NOT disputing that Kothari, Chaudhry or Ahmad were members of Rutherford's research group. I am arguing they were NOT supervised by him. It is one thing to investigate a few phenomena under recommendation of a principal investigator, and entirely another to be supervised by such a figure. I think Stoner's case is an eye-opener into this.
 * If someone at Cambridge wasn't lazy, we'd have the answer by now. As it stands it looks like we'd have to do some digging in Stoner's archives to better understand the relationship between himself and Ahmad, hoping this secondary source verifies supervision.
 * All you have is membership of a research group for Ahmad and Chaudhry, and nothing but (correctly) stated I was wrong about the author whom I thought was Kothari. I would appreciate that you do some deep research and come back with similar sources to the ones I've provided. No pegasus book crap.

 * edit3: it is EXTREMELY likely Kothari was supervised by Meghanad Saha, MAYBE Wilson, which would not be unusual given Wilson's prominence in both the memoirs for Stoner and Shenstone.
 * found the knock-out punch. Kothari must be removed, in his own words for the Memoir for Saha:
 * "Amongst his earliest associates in research mention may be made of P. K. Kichlu (now Professor of Physics in the Delhi University), K. Majumdar and N. K. Sur. The Department attracted students from all over India. R. G. Majumdar, now Professor of Physics in the Delhi University, S. Basu, the present Director-General of the Department of Meteorology, and D. S. Kothari were Saha’s students at Allahabad"
 * what's my name Dougie? YOU KNOW MY NAME.
 * 172.219.6.108 (talk) 23:58, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

 * Thank you. I have used the reference https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/epdf/10.1098/rspa.1937.0200 to update Daulat Singh Kothari with information on his PhD. That page already points to his MS work with Saha in Allahabad University. Johnjbarton (talk) 02:09, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Regarding Nazir Amhed:
 * "University of the Punjab - Science". pu.edu.pk. Retrieved 15 September 2023. The expedition included Professor James Martin Benade (Professor of Physics at Forman Christian College Lahore) and Dr. Nazir Ahmad (a PhD student of Ernest Rutherford at Cambridge who later on became the First Chairman of Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission in 1956).
 * http://pu.edu.pk/home/department/55/Department-of-Physics Johnjbarton (talk) 22:34, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I contacted the Cambridge University Library and they provided information on the PhD year and thesis title for the three people discussed here. I have updated the corresponding pages with the now referenced material. Johnjbarton (talk) 15:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

 * none of what User:Johnjbarton states satisfies the WP criteria of evidence of supervision by Ernest Rutherford. what they do demonstrate, is that these individuals graduated from Cambridge. as i stated at the beginning i don't care, or dispute, they were members of the Cavendish Laboratory (kothari's case seems difficult to make).
 * i'm betting that ahmed and chaudry were probably supervised by Wilson or the likes, and kothari probably milne or fowler. these aren't bad names to be under, but they are not Ernest Rutherford. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.219.6.108 (talk) 20:05, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Regarding Kothari:
 * "He went to Cavendish Laboratory on a U.P. Government fellowship in 1930 and worked with Ernest Rutherford, P Kapitza, and R H Fowler"
 * Roy, A. Daulat Singh Kothari (1906–1993). Reson 25, 1179–1184 (2020). https://doi-org.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/10.1007/s12045-020-1037-4 Johnjbarton (talk) 21:43, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Regarding Chaudhri:
 * "The development of research in Physics started in 1948 with the immigration of Prof. Rafi. M. Chaudhri to Pakistan. He was a well known Atomic/Nuclear Physicist and a student of Rutherford at the Cavendish Laboratory of the University of Cambridge, U.K. He did his Ph.D under supervision in 1932."
 * Page 37:
 * Khan, H. A., Qurashi, M. M., Hussain, E. T., & Hayee, M. I. (2006). Physics in Developing Countries: Past, Present and Future. Johnjbarton (talk) 21:57, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Khan, H. A., Qurashi, M. M., Hussain, E. T., & Hayee, M. I. (2006). Physics in Developing Countries: Past, Present and Future. Johnjbarton (talk) 21:57, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

 * i'm sorry, a website from pakistan and another source (all of whom are pakistani) are not enough evidence. why not just get the info from the theses themselves and get this over with? i also find it comical that you deliberately omit the publisher of "Physics in Developing Countries: Past, Present and Future.", also pakistani. what an absolute joke.
 * so, as far as i can see, aside from your theft of my sources (you're welcome), you have provided three theses cards (my idea, you're welcome, alleged "nuclear physicist") that demonstrate they graduated from cambridge.
 * that's as far as those cards go. they do not support anything more than that. you should now provide more information.
 * for ahmad and chaudri, you rely on sources from pakistan.
 * i am sorry but that's not going to fly here. not for this calibre of supervisor. you should know better than that. they are not WP:RS, and that's what is required here. the best thing to do is to get the first few pages of each thesis to establish your claim (you're welcome, helping you out again.)
 * barton is using a source equivalent to this one: https://www.amazingpakistanis.com/dr-rafi-muhammad-chauhdry.html and claiming it's WP:RS. it's not. amazing pakistanis lol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.219.6.108 (talk) 23:19, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

new topic for readability, continuing the topic above (supervision of ahmad, chaudrhI and kothari
unlike john, i am committed to an impartial assessment of the alleged students-in-question. i have shown that, no one can question my dedication to the truth and facts. i started out with a gut feeling, yes, but then i went and consulted the sources [i]fairly[/i] and with a level of diligence far above User:Johnjbarton.

if i really had an axe to grind, why did i share additional information about Ahmad that john could not? it did not help my case at all, did it? so, why?

further to this point, if i really had an agenda, why would i share these two articles authored by chaudrhI (notice his name is spelled with an I, not a Y? big difference on google search) communicated by Da Baron?

both are communicated by Da Baron, again which do not help my case at all.

 * conversely, a paper authored by Shenstone, also communicated by Da Baron, shows that being in Da Baron's laboratory does not, in itself, establish supervision.

 * Ahmad and Stoner was also communicated by Da Baron, so this does not establish anything (just using it as an example.

 * Shenstone's case is a little more obvious, however this is why i keep insisting upon the theses cover pages because it's not unreasonable (at all) to think ChaudrhI and Ahmad were members of the laboratory and supervised by someone else (my bet is Milne for Kothari, not sure about the other two, but it could easily be Lennard Jones or Fowler)

i think what's being lost here, in spite of my innumerable efforts to emphasise it: [b] i never disputed these individuals studied at cambridge or cavendish laboratory[/b]. however, as i have repeated time and time again, these two criteria:
 * 1) receiving a PhD at cambridge
 * 2) studying in the group of Da Baron

[b] do not imply [/b] they were doctoral students supervised by Da baron. why is the example of Allen Shenstone, in this particular case, being overlooked? Shenstone wou — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.219.6.108 (talk) 00:01, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2023
The section concerning the re-evaluation of the transmutation credit is factually correct in that Rutherford saw long-range protons from which he understood that there was a disintegration of the nitrogen nucleus. And it is the case that Patrick Blackett was the first to understand the details of the nuclear reaction from cloud chamber photographs. But as written, it suggests that Rutherford had no input into Blackett's finding at all. In fact, the idea to look for the reaction in cloud chambers was Rutherford's. Rutherford, as head of the Clarendon, has come up with the idea and the project has been first assigned to a Japanese physicist Shimuzu before Blackett even started work in the Clarendon. Shimuzu developed parts of the apparatus, before unexpectedly having to return to Japan. Blackett took over the project and used some of Shimuzu's apparatus.

This is well documented in Blackett's own words (Rutherford Memorial Lecture 1958 PMS Blackett Proc. Royal Society Volume 251 A (1959) 293). Blackett's publication of the cloud chamber results also indicates that it was done at Rutherford's suggestion and he assisted with help and advice in its execution (Proc. Royal Society Volume 107 A (1924) 349). Given the words that Blackett uses in his Memorial Lecture, one might guess that he would be uncomfortable with the entire credit being allocated to him.

It would therefore seem appropriate to acknowledge Rutherford's influence in this work and I recommend adding the following words in CAPITALS to this sentence:

"Beginning in 2017, many scientific institutions corrected their versions of this history to indicate that the discovery credit for the reaction belongs to Patrick Blackett - ALTHOUGH BLACKETT UNDERTOOK THIS RESEARCH AT RUTHERFORD'S SUGGESTION AND BENEFITTED FROM HIS HELP AND ADVICE." 2001:1458:204:1:0:0:101:2289 (talk) 14:55, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting comment.svg Note: All caps is not allowed per MOS:ALLCAPS.  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  16:36, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: per MOS:ALLCAPS. M.Bitton (talk) 16:45, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I suggest that what editor 2001:1458:204:1:0:0:101:2289 meant was "I recommend adding the following words WHICH I HAVE PLACED in CAPITALS to this sentence." I don't think he actually meant to use ALLCAPS in the article. The edit seems constructive if the capitals are removed. So I have gone ahead and added a slightly shortened version to the article, but NOT in capitals. Dirac66 (talk) 20:34, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 April 2024
New Zealand Physicist to Kiwi Physicist 49.207.195.125 (talk) 15:53, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

 * Nice try, not happening. Johnjbarton (talk) 16:29, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Does New Zealand have a peerage?
In the 3rd lead paragraph, it states: "Rutherford was recognised as a baron in the peerages of New Zealand and Britain." Does New Zealand have a peerage? At the time, Rutherford's peerage gave him a right to sit in the British House of Lords, but did it give him any rights in New Zealand? Note that there's nothing stopping a British peerage from having a name drawn from outside the territory, to commemorate the reason for awarding the peerage, but that doesn't mean that there is a separate peerage for that country. For example, General Byng was ennobled as Julian Byng, 1st Viscount Byng of Vimy for leading the Canadian and British troops in the Battle of Vimy in France in WWI; that didn't make him a French peer. Arthur Wellesey was given the British titles of "Viscount Wellington of Talavera, and of Wellington in the County of Somerset" and "Marquess Douro". Talavera is in Spain and River Douro is in Portugal, but these were British peerages, not Spanish or Portugese. The fact that Rutherford was given the title of "Baron Rutherford of Nelson", with Nelson being the town close to his birthplace, doesn't make it a NZ peerage, does it? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:09, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

 * I edited the article to match the refs, which is all we can do. Johnjbarton (talk) 02:46, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Personal Life - Manchester
Whilst working at Victoria University of Manchester, Rutherford lived in the Withington district of Manchester, close to many other eminent academics. Both the University building in which he worked, and his home have a Blue Plaques reflecting his presence in the area. Source https://sebastienfritsch.wixsite.com/ernestrutherford150/manchester?lang=en Philip5dw (talk) 21:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Famous quote timeline
In this edit, @TenzilKem moved a famous quote that includes "It was almost as incredible as if you fired a 15-inch shell at a piece of tissue paper and it came back and hit you." from 1921 when Rutherford reportedly said this, to 1911 when the event he was discussing occured. He didn't say it in 1911.

The detailed history of Rutherford's work for the 1911 paper says about Marsden's result:

 * "But though surprised and perhaps even puzzled, Rutherford could hardly have been as flabbergasted at the positive outcome of Marsden's enquiry as his later hyperbolical accounts of the episode implied."
 * Heilbron, John L. “The Scattering of α and β Particles and Rutherford’s Atom.” Archive for History of Exact Sciences, vol. 4, no. 4, 1968, pp. 247–307. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/41133273. Accessed 19 July 2024.

Thus the quote is not even characteristic of the time described. It was reflection.

I think the quote should be left in 1921 and context should be added to clarify that it was retrospective of the 1908 work. Johnjbarton (talk) 02:36, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

 * I left the quote in 1908 but change the context a bit. Johnjbarton (talk) 14:43, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

 * As I read your text now, it doesn't actually say when he said these words - 1908 or 1921 or some other time. If it is true that we actually don't know, then perhaps it is best not to say. Dirac66 (talk) 15:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The Andrade source says "In one of the last lectures that Rutherford ever gave,...". Heilbronn says "In retrospect..." I wrote "Years later..." Johnjbarton (talk) 15:41, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Aha! So instead of "Years later Rutherford was quoted as saying", I suggest "In one of his last lectures, Rutherford said ..." Dirac66 (talk) 18:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok I did that, but it assume the reader recognizes that his last lecture was not in 1908. Johnjbarton (talk) 21:53, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for improving my edit. TenzilKem (talk) 01:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * But the quotation has no relevance to the ideas about solving the problem of unaccounted-for mass in the 1921 section. The clarification on the timing of it covers the issue as it stands now. TenzilKem (talk) 01:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for spotting that and fixing it! Johnjbarton (talk) 02:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ernest Rutherford


text:
Mount Huckle

Mount Huckle is a mainly ice-covered mountain, 2,500 m high, near the northern end of the Douglas Range in eastern Alexander Island, Antarctica. It rises 7 mi south-southeast of Mount Spivey on the west side of Toynbee Glacier and is 9 mi inland from George VI Sound. Mount Huckle is the fourth highest mountain of Alexander Island, proceeded by Mount Cupola and succeeded by Mount Paris in the nearby Rouen Mountains.

The mountain was possibly first seen in 1909 by the French Antarctic Expedition under Jean-Baptiste Charcot, but not recognized as part of Alexander Island. It was photographed from the air in 1936–37 by the British Graham Land Expedition under John Riddoch Rymill, and surveyed from the ground in 1948 by the Falkland Islands Dependencies Survey (FIDS).

Etymology
The mountain was named after John Sydney Rodney Huckle, a general assistant at Stonington Island, who aided in the FIDS survey of the west side of George VI Sound in 1949.

title: Mount Huckle


text: Talk:Old Ottawa South

title: Talk:Old Ottawa South


text: User talk:71.69.150.41

title: User talk:71.69.150.41


text: Category:Psychological theories

title: Category:Psychological theories


text:
Darryl M. Bell

Darryl M. Bell (sometimes credited as Daryl Bell; born May 10, 1963) is an American actor best known for his role as Big Brother X-Ray Vision in the 1988 Spike Lee film School Daze and as Ron Johnson Jr. on the NBC sitcom A Different World (1987–93). Darryl Bell also starred on the short-lived UPN sitcom Homeboys in Outer Space as Morris Clay.

Bell was born as the son of Travers J. Bell Jr., the founder of the first black firm on the New York Stock Exchange. Bell graduated from Delbarton School in Morristown, New Jersey in May 1981, where he was one of four African American students, accounting for 1% of the school's enrollment. Bell also attended Syracuse University. Bell is a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, having pledged the fraternity through the Delta Zeta chapter in Spring 1982. He is in a 30 year-long committed relationship with actress Tempestt Bledsoe, who co-starred in the NBC TV comedy The Cosby Show. The couple appeared together in the Fox reality TV series Househusbands of Hollywood, that debuted in August 2009.

title: Darryl M. Bell


text: Category:Educational psychology

title: Category:Educational psychology


text:
Michael I. Sovern

Michael Ira Sovern (December 1, 1931 – January 20, 2020) was the 17th president of Columbia University. Prior to his death, he served as the Chancellor Kent Professor of Law at Columbia Law School. He was a noted legal scholar of Labor Law and an expert in employment discrimination.

Biography
Sovern was born in the Bronx to a dress businessman father and bookkeeper mother. He graduated from the Bronx High School of Science in 1949, summa cum laude, from Columbia College in New York City in 1953, and Columbia Law School in 1955, receiving the prestigious John Ordronaux prize for having the highest academic average in his graduating class. Immediately after graduation, he joined the faculty at the University of Minnesota Law School and taught there until 1957.

He returned to Columbia as a visiting professor in 1957 and then joined the permanent faculty, becoming the youngest full professor in the university's history in 1960. He mediated for New York City in transit worker contract negotiations, as well as firefighter and police disputes. From 1962 to 1966, he was the Research Director concerning Legal Restraints on Racial Discrimination in Employment for the Twentieth Century Fund. He was a law consultant for Time magazine for fifteen years (1965–1980). Sovern served as Special Counsel to Governor Brendan Thomas Byrne of New Jersey from 1974 to 1977. He was the co-chairman of the Second Circuit commission on Reduction of Burdens and Costs in Civil Litigation from 1977 to 1980, chairman of the New York City Charter Revision Commission from 1982 to 1983 and chairman of the State-City Commission on Integrity in Government in 1986.

During the 1968 strife on Columbia's campus, he served as chairman of the faculty executive committee which was credited with easing tensions. Sovern became Dean of the Law School in 1970 and was named Executive Vice President of Academic Affairs and Provost in 1979. He became President of Columbia University in 1980. While President, he quadrupled Columbia's endowment, recruited many prominent faculty and presided over the opening of the university's main undergraduate division, Columbia College, to women students. Perhaps most importantly, he greatly improved the university's financial health by balancing its budget and introducing strict budgetary controls. He stepped down as president in 1993 and returned to the faculty at Columbia Law School.

He received honorary doctorates from Tel Aviv University, the University of Southern California and Columbia. A professorship in his name has been endowed at Columbia Law School, and the American Academy in Rome has established a fellowship in his honor.

Civic activities
Outside of law and academia, Sovern was president of the Shubert Foundation and served on numerous boards, including Comcast Communications, the Shubert Organization, the Asian Cultural Council, and Atlantic Philanthropies. He served as chairman of Sotheby's Holdings, Inc. from 2000 to 2012, American Academy in Rome from 1994 to 2005, the Japan Society from 1993 to 2005, and the National Advisory Council for the Freedom Forum Media Studies Center. He was a member of the board of the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, the Kaiser Family Foundation, the Pulitzer Prizes, AT&T, Pfizer, Warner–Lambert and JP Morgan Chase, among others.

He was a member of the: American Bar Association, Council on Foreign Relations, Bar Association of the City of New York, American Philosophical Society,  American Law Institute, and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.

He was also a founding member of the board of directors of Mobilization for Youth's Legal Services Unit; the Mexican-American Legal Defense Fund; the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund; Helsinki Watch and AMFAR, the American Foundation for AIDS Research.

Personal life
Sovern was married four times: to the former Lenore Goodman in 1953, to the former Eleanor Leen in 1963, to the former Joan Rosenthal Wit in 1974, and finally to Dr. Patricia Margaret Walsh in 1995. His first and second marriages ended in divorce, and the third when Joan Sovern died of cancer in 1993. Sovern was the father of two daughters, Elizabeth and Julie, and two sons, Jeff and Douglas. Jeff Sovern is a professor of law at St. John's University and a graduate of Columbia University and Columbia Law School. Doug Sovern was an award-winning news reporter for KCBS Radio in San Francisco and maintained the sovernnation political blog. He was a graduate of Brown University. He was also a musician, playing bass in the Eyewitness Blues Band. Elizabeth Sovern, a graduate of Barnard College, teaches middle school in Westchester, New York, and Julie Sovern, also a graduate of Columbia Law School, was an Assistant General Counsel at Wells Fargo & Company, in Charlotte, NC. Sovern died on January 20, 2020, at the age of 88 from amyloid cardiomyopathy.

Honors
Sovern received numerous awards and distinctions, including the Commendatore Order of Merit from the government of Italy and the Order of the Rising Sun, Gold and Silver Star from Japan. He was a recipient of the Alexander Hamilton medal from Columbia College in 1993. That year, he also won the Citizens Union Civil Leadership Award. He has also received the Town Hall Friend of the Arts Award.
 * Order of the Rising Sun, Gold and Silver Star, 2003 (Japan).

Books authored

 * Legal Restraints on Racial Discrimination in Employment (1966)
 * Cases and Materials on Law and Poverty (1969)
 * Of Boundless Domains (1994)
 * An Improbable Life: My Sixty Years at Columbia and Other Adventures (2014)

title: Michael I. Sovern


text: Talk:Politics in Ottawa municipal government


text:
Talk:Richmond, Ontario

archived website of Richmond, Ontario school back in 1998
https://web.archive.org/web/19990225104842/http://www.cyberus.ca/~richmondps/

archived website of Richmond, Ontario school back in 1998. Might be useful for this article. 207.141.233.170 (talk) 19:11, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Richmond, Ontario


text:
Talk:Rockcliffe Park

Contributions need to be factual and supported by references. Your recent edits to this article are opinion, seeking to argue the case for commercial interests. I've posted some edits to revert to a more neutral account of the situation. If you want to discuss, please post your reply here. Anna Litickle (talk) 16:38, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

has "reason to believe that "Joan S" is an agent for this developer", this is absurd. I am a homeowner and have no commercial interests whatsoever, other than wanting to ensure that my property rights are respected. There is broad opposition to the HCD in Rockcliffe, maybe it would be worthwhile visiting home owners who have had their properties designated as Grade 1 and see if they fully understand how the HCD restricts their rights. Grade 1 properties sit on the market for longer than Grade 2 properties and have to reduce prices considerably in order to encourage someone to take it off owners' hands. The edits being made are statements of the truth; it is true that the HCD restricts alterations to or demolitions of any property in the neighbourhood, why else would you need to obtain a heritage permit and seek consultation from the Rockcliffe Heritage committee? There are concerns that a heritage designation does not respect rights of property owners and spooks potential buyers, driving down market values, which is supported by the referenced article. I would say that there is only some support for the HCD, if a survey was conducted of the residents, the Rockcliffe Heritage Committee would be surprised with how many owners do not support it, but it is not in their interests to do that... Joan S (talk) 18:24, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

To : This article is about the Village of Rockcliffe Park, not a forum for debate on the merits of Heritage designation. The arguments you are presenting would be appropriate for a newspaper article, but not an encyclopedia. Here it is perhaps appropriate to report (briefly) the fact that there is disagreement, but not to argue for one or other point of view. The second paragraph of the Heritage section gives the facts about the heritage designation, information re the disagreement should be limited to the final paragraph. The comment about restricting alterations or demolitions was removed because it is repeated in the next sentence. Are there independent sources you can reference for your claims of "broad opposition" and reduced property values? The article referenced as #10 is irrelevant to this article as it concerns only properties outside Rockcliffe Park. The article referenced as #12 predates the adoption of the Heritage Plan. Anna Litickle (talk) 19:32, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

The new material that you contributed recently has been removed because it sets out a one-sided view of the situation unsupported by any evidence. Anna Litickle (talk) 20:27, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The scope of this discussion has broadened to include the City of Ottawa's heritage register, which specifically excludes Rockcliffe Park, so it has been relocated to the "Limitations and Issues" section of the Ontario Heritage Act page.

title: Talk:Rockcliffe Park


text:
Talk:Sandy Hill, Ottawa

Language
Why does the article now pay so little attention to the large and growing Francophone community in Sandy Hill? - SimonP (talk) 03:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: CMN2160A
— Assignment last updated by 22liberty (talk) 17:03, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sandy Hill, Ottawa


text:
Talk:Stittsville

Residents
Where is the evidence that KGB head and Soviet leader Yuri Andropov ever lived here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.154.47.73 (talk) 20:40, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Why is Mr. Andropov's picture so prominently featured as well? Very odd addition. Haem0nculus (talk) 14:40, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Helping out
I'm taking on this page as a bit of a pet project, it seems to be subject to a lot of vandalism, not so much so that it needs to be locked, but it needs someone to keep tabs on it. Any suggestions as to how to improve it? Haem0nculus (talk) 20:54, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Lack of Citations
I have no idea where previous editors found all the information posted. My searches (barring going to the Goulbourn Museum itself) have proved fruitless in corroborating the vast majority of claims. Haem0nculus (talk) 21:27, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

There is a good source for the discussion of the Great Carleton County Fire of 1870 at https://www.toronto.com/news-story/4078064-carleton-county-fire-of-1870/, but it does not mention the specific size of the fire. It does mention areas that were impacted by the fire.Gourken (talk) 03:11, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Services
Many services seem to be skimmed over, while small entities are looked at in too much depth (e.g. Stittsville Elementary looked at in too much detail, and its the only primary school listed). Haem0nculus (talk) 21:27, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

List of "neighbourhoods"
Is each of these "neighbourhoods" worthy of an article? I've never been there and don't know. But given that this place is described as a "suburban community" with an area of under 8 sq km and a population of under 35 thousand, I find it hard to imagine. -- Hoary (talk) 22:23, 11 July 2019 (UTC)
 * If enough sources can be cobbled together, then yes. Neighbourhoods are notable. I'm not necessarily opposed to removing the redlinks (well, I would be, but I wouldn't put up a fuss over it), though, but I do think they deserve mention.02:06, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: CMN2160A
— Assignment last updated by Zariagibson (talk) 20:13, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

 * As my course assignment is wrapping up, my contributions to this page will be slowing/ending soon. I hope to occasionally continue improving the page, however this may be it from me for a while.
 * I am making this note to say that the page is not finished, nor a complete representation of the community; I have focused on adding the most reliable and available information about the community. When my assignment has officially finished, I will update here which sections I feel could use the most additions; I'm hoping someone else will come along soon to continue improving the page. Kclar078 (talk) 20:53, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Stittsville


text:
Talk:Westboro, Ottawa

Disambiguation

 * I removed the reference to the Citywide (Baptist) Church in the disambiguation link at the top of the article. A disambiguation link shouldn't be a paragraph long, and disambiguation is only required where there is a risk of confusion.  I find it hard to believe that anyone would mistake a reference to the "Westboro Baptist Church ... in Topeka, Kansas" to a church in Ottawa.  I also do not believe that we should be disambiguating terms that are only found in the disambiguation link itself -- the disambiguation link should relate to the article, and shouldn't constitute a quasi-article itself.  I say all this as much as I understand Citywide's desire to go to great lengths to distance itself from the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas. Frankly, it's not even clear to me that we need to disambiguate Westboro and Westboro Baptist Church in the first place.  Skeezix1000 12:24, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

move. — Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 10:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
Westboro Village → Westboro … Rationale: In a series of unilateral page moves of this article, all completed within 10 minutes of one another, the Westboro article ended up being moved to Westboro Village. Although the village monicker is sometimes used, the simple Westboro is the most commonly used name. The neighbourhood is also the largest entity to have the name, so it is appropriate for the article to simply be called Westboro. I propose moving the page back to Westboro, which is what other articles link to. Skeezix1000 13:46, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~

 * Support. --Skeezix1000 13:48, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. I've never heard it called Westboro Village, then again I don't live in Westboro. --Curlingstub.png Earl Andrew - talk 18:45, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. Westboro is the name of the neighbourhood. Westboro Village is a commercial moniker used by certain businesses along Richmond Road. Martinp 14:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Comment. If the move does 'not' take place, should edit the disambiguation page to include "Westboro 'village'". Martinp 14:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Another comment. I dropped a note on the talk page of the person doing the original sequence of moves but have not heard back. Poking through his contributions, I think he is most interested in Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas, and moved this article away from Westboro since there are other Westboros in Missouri and Wisconsin. I think there is something to that - no reason this Westboro should be pre-eminent. So I could live with his penultimate move, which was to Westboro, Ottawa . Martinp 03:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

moved. enochlau (talk) 15:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Westboro → Westboro, Ottawa Westboro (Ottawa) — I've proposed a move of this page to Westboro, Ottawa Westboro (Ottawa). There are other Westboro cities of importance, and indeed, Westboro Baptist Church is very notable in the news, and it's quite likely someone will type in "westboro" looking for this church; the page Westboro sould be a disambiguation. Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 03:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC) Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 03:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Survey
Skeezix1000 12:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)====Support====
 * Support as nominator. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 03:15, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Support -Darkdan 03:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Note minor technical change to Westboro (Ottawa), which already exists as a redirect to this page. -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs)  03:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. -Phoenixrod 05:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Support. I disagree for the rationale for the move: it is clear from Westboro (disambiguation) that there are not, in fact, any other Westboros of any significance on Wikipedia, and the disambiguation statement is more than sufficient for the occasional time someone is looking for article on the Baptist Church.  That said, there is nothing wrong with adding Ottawa to the title in brackets. Skeezix1000 12:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Perhaps not any other significant ones, but the most significant doesn't always get the page. Try George Bush - "W" is probably a much more common topic being search for. But yeah, the church is pretty significant. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 18:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * George Bush is not a particularly relevant example, given that the was another George Bush who was President of the United States -- there is no primary topic in that instance. As for the church, yes it is notable, but most searches would likely include the words church or baptist (Westboro Baptist and Westboro Church both redirect to that page).  For those few who would simply type in Westboro, the existing disambiguation statement more than suffices.  The strongest argument in favour of the move is simply consistency with other Ottawa neighbourhoods.Skeezix1000 12:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Support but I think Vegaswikian makes a good point below - I wonder whether an addition to the Naming convention for Canada would be useful to the effect that neighbourhoods follow a Neighbourhood (City) pattern as the Ottawa neighbourhoods currently do. Favouritesnail 14:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Seeing VegasWikin's already present annoyance with the policy, I would be totally for just going in and making the change to the policy if he agrees to it. I don't think anyone would have a problem with it and move it. As long as we checked up on policies to similar places (e.g., the US; please don't take that as chauvinist but the countries are very similar) and it doesn't have a conflicting policy. Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 20:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The naming conventions generate a lot of discussion, and I don't think it is a good idea to simply go in and make a unilateral change. First, I would determine what the practice appears to be for neighbourhoods across Canada -- is it similar to what appears to be the general convention for Ottawa, or does it differ?  How is it done for neighbourhoods in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, etc.? (U.S. neighbourhoods might not be the greatest example, as the U.S. and Canadian naming conventions differ, and the doctrinal issues that characterize discussions over the U.S. convention are largely absent on the Canadian side)   Then, I would propose any change to the policy on the Canadian Wikipedians' notice board, where other proposed changes to the Canadian naming convention have been discussed.  Hope that helps.Skeezix1000 12:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Oppose

 * Oppose. The proposal does not follow the Naming convention for Canada.  Westboro, Ontario which follows the naming convention would be OK. Vegaswikian 22:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I must respectfully disagree; you'll notice that Westboro is actually not a city but a neighborhood, so the said naming convention does not apply. However, if it's a big deal, I wouldn't have a problem with it. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 23:49, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Response. Vegaswikian, you're probably thinking that Westboro is a city; it's not.  The proposed name already exists as a redirect: Westboro (Ottawa) and is consistent with the other Ottawa neighborhoods listed in List of Ottawa neighbourhoods, including Manor Park (Ottawa), Overbrook (Ottawa), Alta Vista (Ottawa), Riverview (Ottawa), Britannia (Ottawa), Lincoln Heights (Ottawa), Mechanicsville (Ottawa), Whitehaven (Ottawa), and so on. -- Jim Douglas (talk)  (contribs)  23:58, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yea, I'm becoming more opposed to the entire place naming convention since it is so confusingin my opinion. I understand that this proposal will pass and that's fine.  Vegaswikian 06:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * ''Add any additional comments:

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Demographics
The entire Demographics section of this page is incorrect. They are taken from a source outlining the demographics of Westboro in Jefferson County, Ohio, not Westboro in Ottawa, Ontario. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:182:CD01:73D4:FC72:2508:7F86:9062 (talk) 23:43, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Westboro, Ottawa


text:
Talk:Vanier, Ontario

Vanier, Ontario

If you want it in those categories, then start a separate article at List of mayors of Vanier, Ontario; the title Vanier, Ontario does not contain the word "mayor", and thus does not belong in a "mayors" category. Bearcat 08:12, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

 * The article title is marginally relevant to the categorization. The question is: "Is there a list of mayors in this article?". If the answer is yes, then add Category:Lists of mayors. -- User:Docu

"Drugs and prostitution are common on many of the side streets." -- Shouldn't this need a reference? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.147.54.3 (talk) 05:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The population of 16,609 is, I think, wrong. There is no source provided for that number. The STATSCAN link below cites a population of 111,508 for the Vanier, ON federal electoral district. This is quite a bit larger than the proper neighbourhood of Vanier. Does anyone have a reliable source for the neighbourhood population of Vanier? How do we define those boundaries? Google Map defines it roughly between the Rideau River and St. Laurent east to west, and Beachwood to McArthur North to South. The Kanata, ON page computes it by combining census tracts, but I don't know how to find out the census tracts for Vanier. Any suggestions would be great.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=FED&Code1=35078&Geo2=PR&Code2=35&Data=Count&SearchText=K1L7X7&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&TABID=2

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Vanier,+Ottawa,+ON/@45.4380662,-75.6706451,15.16z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x4cce0514d8d31d0f:0x14261a217814f503!2sVanier,+Ottawa,+ON!3b1!8m2!3d45.4370851!4d-75.658968!3m4!1s0x4cce0514d8d31d0f:0x14261a217814f503!8m2!3d45.4370851!4d-75.658968

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanata%2C_Ontario#cite_note-3 Thehungrylumberjack (talk) 20:48, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

 * It is most certainly correct, but it does need a source, so I will provide one. The Census Tracts follow the former municipal boundaries, which should be used to calculate the population rather than what Google thinks. -- Earl Andrew - talk 22:27, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Vanier, Ontario


text:
Civil flag

A civil flag is a version of the national flag that is flown by civilians on nongovernmental installations or craft. The use of civil flags was more common in the past to denote buildings or ships not crewed by the military.

In some countries, the civil flag is the same as the state flag but without the coat of arms, such as in the case of flags from Peru, Serbia and Spain. In others, it is an alteration of the war flag.

In Scandinavia, state and war flags can be double and triple-tailed variants of the Nordic Cross flag. Many countries, particularly those with a British heritage, still have distinctive civil flags (technically civil ensigns) for use at sea, many based on the Red Ensign.

title: Civil flag


text: Template:Antarctic territorial claims

title: Template:Antarctic territorial claims


text:
Talk:Riverview, Ottawa

This is not a city.
The template being used for this area is not a city. Please make and use another template. furthermore, the naming of the article may not be appropriate. The request is based on the principal that the common denominator, per the new category UTC-5 demonstrates that cities generally have the state or province name. Take for example Ottawa which should redirect to Ottawa, Ontario and not vis-versa. Since the template you are using will soon be used only for cities and to automatically add those regions within the appropriate subcategory (cities). Thank you for your cooperation in finding and using another template. This will help when categorizing cities. --CyclePat 00:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Riverview, Ottawa


text:
Talk:Volhynians

A town of "Volyn"
Please, explain what is the town of "Volyn" mentioned next to Volodymyr-Volynskyi. I am not denying the Volyn-town. I just want to know what this is. Thanks, --Irpen

That's a good question. I have another one, about this part: "They are mentioned in the Primary Chronicle as well as by the Bavarian Geographer. According to the latter, the Volhynians had seventy "cities" (fortresses) in the last half of the tenth century." The Bavarian is cited on Wolin: "An mediæval document of ca. 850, called Bavarian Geographer after its anonymous creator, mentions the Slavic tribe of Volinians who then had 70 strongholds (Uelunzani civitates LXX)." This is a place at the Baltic Sea and not a place where East Slavs are supposed to be found. Is there a reference for a town of Volyn in or near present Volynia and for the identity of the Bavarian's Uelunzani and the East Slav tribe? Fransvannes (talk) 13:51, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Next thing: it appears that not Volhynians, but Dulebes were mentioned in the Primary Chronicle. When was the first mention of "Volhynians", if not in the Primary Chronicle and the Bavarian Geographer's list? Fransvannes (talk) 14:37, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * See Wikidata:Q4124479 for the town of Volyn. Joostik (talk) 09:44, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: The Middle Ages
— Assignment last updated by Dwlehm1 (talk) 00:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Volhynians


text: Talk:Mount Bassie

title: Talk:Mount Bassie


text:
TC Huo

TC Huo is a Laotian American author, of Chinese descent, who emigrated from Laos to the United States in 1980 and now lives in Oakland, California. He has written the novels A Thousand Wings and Land of Smiles. In 2001, he received the award for adult fiction from the Asian/Pacific American Librarians Association.

title: TC Huo