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Talk:Metra

Cats added
I added categories here for transportation in chicago and transportation in illinois and someone reverted them as redundant to existing category metra. Am I alone in the opinion that category metra isn't very useful and the other two supliment well? What do we gain by only using one (obscure) category? I'm not planning on an edit war so am writing this instead. Tedernst 02:36, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree completely with the above. If there are no objections in the next week, I'm going to change it back. L Glidewell 15:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Randolph street station
I was down there today and Metra is calling it Millenium station now. I would change it but I'm still not completely sure. Avalanche Knight 00:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

 * It's called Millennium Station on the time schedules and stuff, but the conductors almost always call it out as "Randolph/South Water." L Glidewell 15:40, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

There was a Board ordinance changing it to Millennium Station after the station was redeveloped. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Accidents
I broke up the News heading into News and Accidents. All of those events should be here in Wikipedia somewhere, although I don't know if they need to be on this page per se, I do know they don't all belong in News so I'm working under the assumption that none of them do (once they stop being news, of course) and that they deserve their own heading. Any thoughts? Gws57 22:30, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The size of the Accidents section is growing, and it bothers me that it's now the longest section in the article. Few other railroads have Accidents sections that take up so much article space. Not that I don't think they are important, but I wonder if the other sections should be expanded, or the Accidents shrunk down a bit -- and how?Gws57 14:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

A recent edit to the Wojtyla accident may suggest to readers that there is a citation for this statement: "A wrongful death lawsuit brought by Wojtyla's estate was dismissed in 1996". That is not true. I have not found a source for that last sentence. The rest of the (very long) paragraph is fully documented. Zzorse 12:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry if I caused any confusion. My main objective was to change the references to inline citations and attach them to the relevant bullet point, not necessarily the sentence.  As the references had no urls I could use to review the facts, I didn't know that last sentence was unsubstantiated.  Feel free to move the references as you deem fit and accurate. --Millbrooky 17:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I appreciate your edit. I moved the inline citations, see how it looks to you. The last sentence about the lawsuit doesn't really seem to fit, maybe it should be deleted? I do share Gws57's concern that the accident section is getting huge. That particular incident, however, has taken on a life of its own on the Internet, with inaccuracies. I felt it best to have Wikipedia nail it down with facts. For what it's worth, the Downer's Grove public library mailed me photocopies of the 2 citations, they are not online, at least not for free. Zzorse 17:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it's time to create a separate article for accidents so that it doesn't overwhelm the main page? Thoughts? Lonelymiesarchie (talk) 15:17, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Define "express train"
I think I speak for the general Wikipedia reader when I say, what in the world is a "BNSF 'Racetrack' express train"? — Rob (  talk  ) 12:52, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Please see the BNSF Railway Line article. The "Racetrack" is referred to express trains along the center track, traveling at high speeds. Calwatch 02:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Curious...shouldn't the section regarding the woman struck by the express train in Downers Grove be changed to reflect that, at the time of the accident, Burlington Northern owned that property? BNSF Railway did not exist in any form until 1995. -anon

Expansion
Okay... I want to see Metra service expanded as much as the next commuter. But uncited "plans" to expand to Milwaukee, Rockford, DeKalb or other places do not belong in an encylopedic article. I added citations to Metra press releases for the legitimate plans for expansion, but the others need to go away until we can come up with credible sources for them. Gws57 23:58, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I know that Racine, WI has fixed up their old C&NW station in anticipation of an extension. Has that officially been announced? --MasterA113 13:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Pictures
I happen to visit the lake bluff station just about everyday. I can get better quality pictures and you can go inside the station and get pictures as well. I'll upload them as soon as I take them. In the mean time, I'm going to put up a picture of one of the trains.

Hi, it looks to me as though there are too many pictures of Lake Bluff. I'm not saying they are not nice, and I'm not saying delete them, but maybe if anybody has some other photos, please post them up. bobsmith319.

linked full dates vs. linked years
I propose that we remove the links which point solely to years. We should retain links to full dates as long as that is how the wiki software recognizes date preferences. MKoltnow 03:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree, as it makes articles easier to read, as unnecessary links break the flow of the article. I also think that it's more or less becoming consensus throughout the Wikipedia to delink years unless necessary to establish context, which most of these aren't.Gws57 14:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Accidents current event tag
I think we should revert to keeping the current event tag in this section. It refers to the last paragraph--where police are still investigating the cause of the accident of 2006-10-25. Until we rewrite this graf with new info, it should have a current event tag. MKoltnow 19:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Are both 553 and 555 still running?
I've only seen the 553 club car recently. Is 555 still running out there? --MasterA113 13:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

New Trivia Section, Downers Grove reference
This bit of trivia is not particularly significant, and it is not really about Metra, per se. It is something about Downers Grove. I think it should go away. Trivia sections are not a good idea, in general. I will respect consensus, of course, but will endeavour to make this change by 16 April 2007. MKoltnow 19:32, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not even true, as Evanston also has three stations (Main, Central, and Davis)

Notable accident?
There is a Metra accident mentioned on this page, Rachel Barton Pine. Whether it's worth including on the Metra page I'll leave up to others to decide. Zzorse 03:23, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

humm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.13.165 (talk) 02:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Naming of Metra Articles
The titles of articles for the Metra lines with cardinal directions (e.g., North or East) in their names use a "slash" between the direction and the word preceding it. For example, the Union Pacific North line is rendered "Union Pacific/North". Why is this? The website doesn't print the line names that way. -Rrius (talk) 17:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * When the sub-articles were created, the slash was used in the name of the lines on the written public timetables. This remains the case. I understand the confusion, but tend to think that the printed timetables supercede what is published on the internet. Gws57 (talk) 16:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I can hardly see how the train schedules would be the be-all, end-all. I should think other, less utilitarian examples would shed more light. That is to say, there are reasons why the train schedules might use eccentric formatting. I fail to see why Metra's website would be other than a reliable means of judging how the names of Metra lines are formatted. If the front page is not enough, how about the press releases? In this release, Metra refers to the "Union Pacific North Line"; Wikipedia would refer to it as the "Union Pacific/North Line". Where the subject of the article uses a normal, unpunctuated form in standard text, why would we use some other form because they use a variant for the title of a small booklet? -Rrius (talk) 19:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally don't care enough about the naming rubric of the articles to stand in the way of a mass change one way or another. I was just answering the question as posed, and explaining why I thought it had been organized the way it was. Gws57 (talk) 02:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Inaccurate route-map image
This route map is WRONG. Believe me, ive been using metra for quite a while. Check out the Metra website if you dont believe me. One example is: North Central Service leaves at Union station NOT Ogilvie

Please replace the image or remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.243.244 (talk) 02:14, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Although the map is a little hard to read, it does not show North Central stopping at Ogilvie. That line, with the other two from the north and west snake around to Union. Look again. --DAW0001 (talk) 02:55, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Children Policy/Other major polices
Should the policy from Metra's website (which can be dumbed down to "No children 7 or under are permitted to board the Metra train without parental supervision") be included on the article? Of course, my dumbed down version obviously could do a little NPOV, but it is notable and should be included. 98.226.32.129 (talk) 08:48, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Foreign language versions
I have removed the es:Metra links from de:METRA and fr:Metra, (and previously removed them here) and removed links to the French, German and English versions of this page from es:Metra, as the Spanish Language article has a completely different, non-railroad, subject. Hopefully this will help prevent erroneous Bot inter-wiki additions to this article. Wuhwuzdat (talk) 13:49, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Code of Conduct
Would a mention of Metra's code of conduct be appropriate? I personally appreciate Metra's stance on language and disruptive behavior onboard and believe that this is a positive that sets it apart from the CTA. Lonelymiesarchie (talk) 15:20, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

New Metra navigation box?
I trying to tie all of the Metra pages into one easily navigable spot instead of just showing Metra lines. Anyone like this more or less than the current navbox? Suggestions? Only have one section for "lines" with two subsections (current and proposed)? Do nothing? OMGWTFBBQ? Lost on Belmont (talk) 22:41, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I am not sure South Shore Line belongs here (although I can see how that might be the case, seeing as how Metra partially funds the service and all). I would include links to rail terminals and (possibly) former lines, but other than that, I have no problem with your proposed navigation box. --Strannik (talk) 23:55, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure the accidents listed under "other" need be there, but incorporating the links to the fleet isn't a bad addition. Should try to squeeze in the gallery cars, as all Metra lines (outside the ME) use 'em, and they originated in Chicago. There's a section on them here. I agree that terminals would be a good addition. Host/provider railroads might start getting a bit crowded, and are linked through the individual line articles anyway. (And, thanks to some not so creative names, are obvious for at least some lines).oknazevad (talk) 00:06, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

2011 changes
This article has several issues - many already discussed on the talk page - so I'll be attempting to address them and rework this article. I'll try and update other things too, but the list above seemed to be the most serious issues at first glance. DR04 (talk) 14:43, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The article's prose outside of the history section has way too much focus on historical information. CURRENT service descriptions are listed as connecting to this old station or used to leave that station that no longer exists or runs on these "ex"-whatever tracks.  I'm going to try to consolidate what I can to the history section.  Also, I'm considering moving the history section down one and putting service first.
 * The lines and service descriptions are quite confusing for someone not knowledgable about Metra service. The table, while helpful, lists too much different information at once - from ridership to departing stations and dates of construction. Relevant information, for the most part, should be kept in relevant sections.  If you look at the Chicago L article the service section does a pretty good job keeping routes and their descriptions understandable and does so in an organized fashion.
 * The fare section needs work. There is little to no information on ticket options.  Zone info needs to be communicated more efficiently and exceptions to rules shouldn't comprise most of the text in this section.
 * The accident section - IMO this section needs to be removed completely. When looking at the two major commuter railroads in New York the word "accident" never even appears in their articles.  I understand we shouldn't base the structure of some articles on others, but that article provides an example of perspective.  Accidents occur frequently on all methods of transportation (rail, car, plane), but listing accidents on the main article for the transit service only serves to act as a memorial or for shock purpsoses - and Wikipedia doesn't exist as a personal memorial or shock site.  Some of these incidents were substantial and should probably have their own pages.  But listing things like the Wojtyla death and Pine injury on the MAIN page is ridiculous.  This system is inconsistent and unnecessary (a number of other deaths and suicides aren't listed here - and why list any in this fashion?)
 * My thoughts on your thoughts:

 * I think the article has a pretty good balance of history in it. Metra is fairly unique historically, due to Chicago's status as the rail hub of North America, and Metra's nature as a legacy operation that assumed the private operations. No other legacy North American commuter operation has as many predecessor companies, nor do they have the complexities of owning some lines outright, operating some lines themselves on trackage owned by the freight railroads, and operations performed by freight railroads under contract. Understanding that complexity means describing the history to some extent.
 * I think the table is quite fine as it is; it, in conjunction with the map, effectively summarizes and overviews the various lines. I could see moving above the history section, but that may lead to layout issues with the infobox.
 * I agree with fare section needing work.
 * I can see thinning out the accidents section, but not removing it entirely; while the New York area commuter systems articles may not have them, they are pretty common on these articles. The only currently listed incidents I would keep are the Wojtyla and Pine. The Pine incident became specifically notable because of the great deal of coverage the ensuing lawsuit received, while the Wojtyla footage is, as noted, widely repeated. I don't believe the incidents are capable of supporting their own articles, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be included here; it's a common result of AfDs that such articles should be merged into another article.
 * One additional thought: the bonus scandal section should be incorporated into the history section, and made significantly smaller. A bit of WP:RECENTISM to give it such a large section. oknazevad (talk) 20:05, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm forced to agree with DR04 about the lines and service section and about the bits of history interspersed throughout the article. It's all good information, but in its current state, that information is quite cluttered. Aside from it somewhat manageable for those already familiar with Metra, the whole section seems very much directed at a railfan audience. Anyone outside of that group is bound not to get most of it. The history section really should cover all of the commuter services into Chicago and then explain how many began to die off and Metra was formed. Again, this information wouldn't be deleted, just moved from lines and services into a greatly expanded history.
 * The fallen officer part also needs to go as that's clearly a memorial to that one officer. No offense to him or his family, but it isn't a notable event. Lost on Belmont (talk) 20:28, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 * We should have something about current services not lost amongst the history. Not everyone who comes to the article will want to know all the history; they wouldn't be well served by making them search the entire history. oknazevad (talk) 21:29, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Summarizing the entire history of every single commuter service in the six-county region will make the history section needlessly clutted. I agree with most of oknazevad's points save for the part about shrinking the bonus section. Don't really see the need for removing the section about a fallen officer, since it was an unusual event in Metra history and thus notable. As far accidents, listing every single accident that ever occurred would cause it to bloat beyond reason, so we should just keep it to the more notable (and newsworthy) ones. --Strannik (talk) 04:23, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

First off let me say I was so impressed at the number of responses! I hadn't seen much activity here on the discussion page recently and wrongly assumed no one would be responding to my comments! Now - let me clarify a few things, point out some areas where I agree, and some differences of opinion I have.
 * "I think the article has a pretty good balance of history in it. Metra is fairly unique historically, due to Chicago's status as the rail hub of North America, and Metra's nature as a legacy operation that assumed the private operations. No other legacy North American commuter operation has as many predecessor companies, nor do they have the complexities of owning some lines outright, operating some lines themselves on trackage owned by the freight railroads, and operations performed by freight railroads under contract. Understanding that complexity means describing the history to some extent."
 * Indeed Chicago rail history, pre-Metra/Amtrak and even pre 1990, is quite extensive and rich. Don't get me wrong - I never proposed that any history info should be removed - only organized better.  Chicago rail history is certainly an interest of mine.  But as I mentioned in my original comments - "CURRENT service descriptions are listed as connecting to this old station or used to leave that station that no longer exists or runs on these "ex"-whatever tracks.  I'm going to try to consolidate what I can to the history section.".  This will be my goal.  Current services shouldn't be flooded with tons of historical information.  To do so would confuse readers and complicate the prose beyond understanding.  I agree with Lost on Belmont's comments -  "Aside from it somewhat manageable for those already familiar with Metra, the whole section seems very much directed at a railfan audience. Anyone outside of that group is bound not to get most of it. The history section really should cover all of the commuter services into Chicago and then explain how many began to die off and Metra was formed. Again, this information wouldn't be deleted, just moved from lines and services into a greatly expanded history."  In other words this should be expanded, but put in the right spot.  I would even be behind having an entire article dedicated to commuter rail history in Chicago.
 * "I think the table is quite fine as it is; it, in conjunction with the map, effectively summarizes and overviews the various lines. I could see moving above the history section, but that may lead to layout issues with the infobox."
 * I think the table is a fine source of data and appreciate the effort that went into its construction. However it has some glaring issues.  The dates of construction are misleading and history too complex to list in a table.  For example - North Central Service began in 1996 - but this table implies it was setup in 1886.  I know - NCS uses part of the Soo line (a very cool and historical fact), but the table states something else.  Due to the extensive history of Chicago rail history, something that you've pointed out yourself, oknazevad, these details are best left to prose; not an oversimplified table.  Lets leave the table to do what it does best - present basic, but fairly extensive data in a concise, factual format - I'm thinking of using it, but just leaving the basics, technical details, names, termini (sp?)...  I'll try to rework the table in my sandbox when I get through with my edits, and I'll list it here as a proposed change prior to actually updating the article.  Sound fair?
 * Also, I do like having the former owner's listed, but maybe we should put it in a different table? Combining that all into one, especially one that lists service and technical details, makes it all very cumbersome.  Again, I'll propose some changes and lets look at that.
 * "I can see thinning out the accidents section, but not removing it entirely; while the New York area commuter systems articles may not have them, they are pretty common on these articles. The only currently listed incidents I would keep are the Wojtyla and Pine. The Pine incident became specifically notable because of the great deal of coverage the ensuing lawsuit received, while the Wojtyla footage is, as noted, widely repeated. I don't believe the incidents are capable of supporting their own articles, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be included here; it's a common result of AfDs that such articles should be merged into another article."
 * Listing these 1 or 2 person accidents/injuries (ie Wojtyla and Pine) is a perfect example of the article being written with a strong availability bias. Same goes for the officer down mention; I completely agree with Lost on Belmont on that point.  These are not notable events.  I understand that these were dramatic events and they received coverage - but that does not make them notable enough, IMO, to mention on the main page of an encyclopedia article covering one of the busiest commuter rail systems in the United States.  Wikipedia is not a news media and shouldn't employ a faulty availability heuristic.  People die on the expressways all the time - but they don't get mentioned (and these Metra incidents do) because of this bias.  Just because the nature of rail makes these stories seem more dramatic because we hear them less (because rail travel is safer) doesn't mean we should include them.  Should Wojtyla and Pine be mentioned here?  Absolutely not.  What about the 1995 Fox River Grove bus–train collision accident?  Sure that one makes sense - on top of the size of the tragedy (21 injuries, 7 deaths) and media coverage, this article had a significant impact on national and local rail travel safety.  This type of incident represents something I would be willing to compromise on keeping a section for.  I see there are others on this discussion page who have expressed concern over the size of this accident section.  So again, I'm willing to keep it in some form, but I'm thinking only 1 or 2 actually notable events should be listed (ie Fox River Grove).
 * And re: Strannik's comment - "Don't really see the need for removing the section about a fallen officer, since it was an unusual event in Metra history and thus notable" - unusual events in and of themselves do not qualify a mention as notable, and certainly don't qualify as having their own section.
 * "One additional thought: the bonus scandal section should be incorporated into the history section, and made significantly smaller. A bit of WP:RECENTISM to give it such a large section."
 * Yea I was thinking the exact same thing. I'll try to address this.
 * "I agree with fare section needing work."
 * Yea this will be critical to put in for me. The fare and ticketing system is a crucial component of the Metra system and this information would be very beneficial to readers if it was presented in an organized and understandable fashion.

Please let me know of disagreements/comments, etc. I'll try to keep working on the proposed changes so I have something to offer more than simple criticism. I'll post a link to the sandbox here once I make some decent progress. DR04 (talk) 17:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd be interested to see what revisions to the table(s) you could come up with. And I too like the idea of a History of Chicagoland commuter rail article (to coin a proposed title).
 * I still disagree with the removal of the Pine and Wojtyla incidents. The Pine incident should be mentioned not just because its well covered, or because it had permanent affects on Pine, but because it has had lasting impression on Metra; there were changes to operating procedures that resulted from it, and the financial settlement was nearly $30 million. And the Wojtyla video is distinctly notable for it's use by Operation Lifesaver. I can see adding the Fox River Grove incident. But that's our two opinions; I would like to hear other's input about which, if any, incidents to include. oknazevad (talk) 21:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it would be great if we could get some other opinions as well - and it looks like we might already be getting closer to a solution on this point. I'd be happy to find some common ground to move forward with a consensus!
 * I was willing to compromise to leave some type of accident section in. I also would be willing to compromise to include some of these incidents IF they had a significant impact on service or safety policies as well.  I'd be willing to leave in (with heavy rewrites) some of these incidents if we have sources showing how they impacted Metra and/or safety policies and the prose is focused on its notability rather than the event itself.  I propose creating a safety section discussing safety policies of commuter rail and Metra, with an "Incidents" subsection that would include incidents with the justifications listed above.  The incident would include just a sentence or two summarizing what happened and then have a sentence or two summarizing the impact and/or changes.  Thoughts? DR04 (talk) 13:59, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry for an additional comment, but I have another proposal that might prove simple to start off with yet leaves a large opportunity for expansion. What about:
 * Renaming Railroad terminals of Chicago to "History of passenger rail transport in Chicagoland" or "History of passenger rail transport in Chicago"???
 * I noticed "Railroad terminals of Chicago" doesn't just cover the terminal stations but the railroads themselves. So this rename is probably logical anyway.
 * This rename wouldn't require a completely new article to be written but would encourage an article that already exists to be improved.
 * An article focusing on the history of commuter rail alone should probably be created after the article on the history of all passenger rail in Chicago exists...
 * oknazevad, others, thoughts? DR04 (talk) 14:30, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Both sound pretty good to me. The rename of the Railroad terminals in Chicago article seems the most logical way to have a history article without creating a duplicate article. Let me know when you've got drafts ready and I'll look em over. oknazevad (talk) 16:26, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes! This is exactly what I was thinking of in my comment about the history of commuter rail lines in Chicago for the history section. What would appear on the Metra page would be a condensed version of this to help explain why the formation of NIRC and Metra was necessary. A "main article" tag would go above this. I'm not quite sure about the Wojtyla case, but I do believe the Pine incident is notable and should stay because of the changes it brought about at Metra.
 * On a side note, there are several editors on the 'pedia who are prone to having psychotic episodes with the mere notion of using the word "Chicagoland." Just a heads up. Lost on Belmont (talk) 18:02, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds good guys. I've moved the terminal article to History of passenger rail in Chicago.  Also I'm still plugging away on the rewrite for this article over in my sandbox.  If you have any comments feel free to let me know.  So far I've made good progress on the history, service, and fare/ticketing sections.  Still have work to do on other sections and referencing, etc. DR04 (talk) 17:00, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks pretty good; I particularly like the way you handled the services section. Thinking on it, the details of who owned what, when, etc. belong onthe individual line articles, so a capsule review is suitable.
 * Looking at the draft, I was reminded of the one thing I've always hated about this article: the rolling stock charts. They railfan spotter's guide material, which runs afoul of WP:NOT big time. At the least the retired equipment should go, and I dislike the listing by numbers. I would regroup them by builder. oknazevad (talk) 01:23, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Might as well throw this out here since the article is getting a facelift. I've been (slowly) working on a List of Metra stations, but I haven't completed it due to time constraints, lack of constant internet access, and general laziness. The table is complete (it doesn't have opening dates, but this isn't required and the column can always added later) but the lead isn't. Any comments or suggestions, would be great. Lost on Belmont (talk) 20:53, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it looks great! I'd say post it to the title you used in your link! DR04 (talk) 01:06, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Couple of tweaks
Totally dig the rewrite. Made a couple of tweaks (which I explained in my edit summaries), but I have a quick thought. I don't think we need the header paragraph under "Service". It's a bit too HOWTO for my liking (that it's sourced to Metra's "how to" riders' guide reinforces that). But more importantly, the process it describes is the same for every commuter rail system I've even seen. As such, it seems too definitional, for lack of a better word, than is appropriate for this article. This article doesn't exist to define commuter rail; the already linked commuter rail article exists to describe the characteristics that make it commuter rail. So I think it can be safely removed. oknazevad (talk) 17:38, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Yea I wasn't quite done with the rewrite but based on todays events I figured I should go ahead with what was ready on the improvements.  Thanks for the tweaks.  I also agree on the service.  During my writing it was supposed to be somewhere else, got kinda rewritten and then now its just disjointed.  I'll take a deeper look at this again soon too, but I'm glad its up ready for edits.  Thanks again! DR04 (talk) 20:54, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No, thank you for the hard work! I took out the paragraph, and there's been a few more routine tweaks, which says to me the page is now at a normal state, which is good. Thanks again! oknazevad (talk) 02:01, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Rewrite of Lead
Since the majority of the article has been rewritten I also rewrote the lead to reflect the updates and (hopefully) efficiently summarize primary points of the article. I used WP:LEAD and some featured articles as a guide. I removed the mention of the Northeast Illinois Regional Commuter Railroad Corporation from the lead (it still exists in history defining its operational situation) - it is NOT Metra's official business name. Metra is officially a division of the RTA per the Metra site and RTA. The NIRCRC is a corporate front for Metra and the RTA - it manages the purchase/management/leasing of railroads and serves an "adjunct staff function". Just wanted to clear this up in case there was a question. DR04 (talk) 18:22, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * From my interpretation of this and prior understanding: the RTA is a funding agency, which only looks at the "big picture" oversight. The day to day operations are handled by the "fundee". In the case of Chicago commuter rail, the RTA's Commuter Rail Service Board oversees the operations, using the common "Metra" brand (which has become synonymous with the service board), while day to day operations are carried out by three "fundees": BNSF for the eponymous line, Union Pacific for it's three lines, and the Northeaster Illinois Regional Commuter Rail Corporation (NIRC) for the other lines. Now, NIRC is a subsidiary of the RTA, and described as it's "operating arm". So it's the official business name for the actual ooerator of the majority of Metra lines, but it's nit synonymous with the whole of "Metra" as most would understand it.
 * The take away from all this: the current descriptor in the article is pretty darn good. The only thing I might add is a phrase such as: "lines not contracted are operated by the Northeast Illinois Regional Commuter Rail Corporation (NIRC), Metra's operating subsidiary", maybe in the lead, but probably better in the lines section.
 * Also, I don't think we need to mention the CTA in the lead. That they're sister agencies isn't really defining for either, and is covered by the already extant link to the RTA article. I won't take it out yet, but would like a stronger rationale for it. oknazevad (talk) 19:55, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea that also seemed kinda messy, so I removed the CTA mention. I like your option to add that phrasing into the article itself.
 * So I still have some work to do - doing a little rewrite on incidents to prose (and cleanup) and also doing the same for the rolling stock - I'll also rename that section to a simple "Rolling stock" as that term (with my understanding) includes "motive power" as it currently reads. But yea progress seems to be coming along.  Thanks Belmont and oknazevad for staying on top of my mistakes and keeping it up to par.  Its nice to be able to just focus on writing and knowing you guys have my back so quickly!!  Thanks again! DR04 (talk) 00:47, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I put in a brief paragraph at the beginning of the routes section including the mention of NIRC. I also alphabetized the routes. While the counterclockwise by outer terminal list makes sense with a map present, for a regular list, it seemed to make more sense. oknazevad (talk) 16:50, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Rewrite of Incidents/Accidents
I've rewritten the Incidents section. I've altered the focus to a more aggregate perspective. I've included only disasters and statistics. Also I've written the section in prose - trying to move away from the lists.

I reverted back to not including these individual incidents (unless catastrophic, there are currently 2). Statistics paint a much better picture and are more notable. In a list format people were listing every little new incident. In reality there were 150 or so deaths - so which ones to include? Why not all? Others here have commented that those with million dollar lawsuits/settlements or those that have videos used by operation lifesaver are notable. Perhaps in a list format (ie List of Metra incidents - maybe a link to article?) - but not here. Why? Because several of these deaths have involved such lawsuits and operation lifesaver has used several of these incidents in videos. I fail to see why that makes those individual incidents notable to include on an individual basis for the primary page on of one of the busiest commuter rail networks. Again, I reassert that Wikipedia is not a memorial or shock site. Listing individual fatalities does not represent Metra's safety failures as a whole, but stats do. Several editors have mentioned their feelings that the accidents/incidents section is growing too large. I attempted to correct this and hopefully the changes encourage more appropriate updates to this topic. DR04 (talk) 20:10, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Count of Metra stations
User at 67.188.158.240 keeps changing the Metra station count to 239. Metra's FAQ page which is literally up to date (html updated as of today) shows a current station count of 241. I've updated the reference, included that reference and updated the page. If this continues to be changed this user should be reported. I've already placed a warning on the editor's talk page to not continuously revert without references. DR04 (talk) 21:52, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110213054901/http://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com:80/2010/08/metra-to-buy-1st-new-cars-for-electric-line-in-5-years.html to http://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/08/metra-to-buy-1st-new-cars-for-electric-line-in-5-years.html

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 * Did not work. --1990'sguy (talk) 18:47, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Planned routes --> Not anymore (?)
This article states that Metra is currently planning two new routes, but this information seems outdated. One of the proposed routes, the Suburban Transit Access Route, is not a serious proposal (or even a proposal at all) anymore, according to the article. The other, the SouthEast Service, has a very outdated article. I don't think that either routes are proposals anymore. I think this article (and the two other articles) should be updated to reflect this, but I would rather leave this up to an editor who is more knowledgable on this specific subject. --1990'sguy (talk) 18:46, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Metra's website - broken refs
Metra's website was recently redone, and because of that, pretty every ref sourced to Metra's website has been broken. Either a bot will archive these refs, or we could find new refs on the new website or others. Just a note. --1990'sguy (talk) 08:33, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Every ref accessed before June 29, 2016, I believe, to be more specific . --1990'sguy (talk) 21:16, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * All work! --1990'sguy (talk) 04:03, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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Corruption
Just now, I split "Corruption" off into its own section, added the Don Udstuen-Roger Stanley scandal, and added a bunch of citations. Acwilson9 (talk) 02:51, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * (BTW, I personally know, but cannot currently document, that many Metra employees, all over the organization, were unhappy about the political scandals (which got in the way of doing good work), and were happier with the more meritocratic administration of both the recent Boards and recent CEO Don Orseno. It helped that Orseno was mostly well-liked, respected, and successful in his various previous on-train and management jobs in Metra's Operations.  I myself, a former Metra bureaucrat, did not know him well, but occasionally crossed paths with him in meetings. Orseno retired in Dec. 2017, leaving "big shoes" to fill, IMO, for new CEO James M. Derwinski, who, like Orseno, is a capable veteran of Metra Operations.  Also IMO, most Metra employees took, and take, great pride in running a good efficient railroad and public service, contradicting the stereotype, if not the reality, of government bureaucracies.) Acwilson9 (talk) 03:11, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

is responsible for all stations along with the respective municipalities
most stations have been taken over by the city's they are in, metra has no money, has sold not only it's stations

and it's parking lots too. 50.254.21.211 (talk) 00:08, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Map
While the Route Map drop-down and System Map in the infbox are nice; it'd be really nice to have an embedded map with the lines colored somewhere in the article, preferably in the "Routes" section. Kind of surprised one isn't present in the article, already. Criticalthinker (talk) 01:46, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

 * That's a good idea. If I understand what you mean correctly, I would recommend reaching out to AlphaBeta135 for help with that. They created color coded maps on most of the station/line articles. I'm not sure how difficult it would be, how long it would take, or if they are even up to doing it, but that is probably your best option if they do agree to it. If I interpreted your message incorrectly, be sure to send me an article showing what you mean. Hotdog with ketchup (talk) 02:38, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I suspect CriticalThinker is referring to a map like the one in Providence and Worcester Railroad, based on OSM data. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 03:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. Literally just talking about a free graphic of the system to embed in the article so you won't have to do any drop-down viewing of a system map. Criticalthinker (talk) 07:27, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Unfortunately I don't have the proper software to make that happen, but perhaps someone else does. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 13:41, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not even talking about someone creating a map from scratch. I literally just talking about someone finding a free/fair-use image, uploading it to WikiCommons or wherever, and just embedding it in the article. I might just go ahead and look around, but would rather someone else go through that work of finding such a map. Criticalthinker (talk) 02:24, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * There's File:Metra system map.svg already. Mackensen (talk) 11:52, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That map is missing 35th Street and Romeoville stations. It was actually the very reason I put so much work into creating the route diagram. [Plus, it can be updated quicker. For example, if a station becomes accessible, all I have to do is change to .] If there is a way to update it to include the aforementioned stations, (along with possibly including Peterson Ridge and Auburn Park) then yes, that's a good alternative. But if not, it sends a bad message when we show a system map "updated as of 2010-2012" in 2023.
 * I say Yes to a free image of the system map, but No to the one that exists on Wikimedia Commons. Hotdog with ketchup (talk) 13:19, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ (check infobox). AlphaBeta135  talk 12:06, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not what the question is asking for. The point is the map shouldn't be in the infobox, but near he list of lines. That infobox map isn't all the useful, both in placement and content (zero labels). An updated version of File:Metra system map.svg is what is needed. Why it was ever removed from the article in the first place I don't know. oknazevad (talk) 14:06, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I removed the svg map as soon as the BSicon diagram was ready. (Admittedly, I should have asked around first. My apologies.) The fact that it was depicting the system ten years ago was actually one of the two main reasons I created the map despite knowing nothing about coding, but I digress. The BSicon map has the advantage of being labeled and being easily changed, with the disadvantage of being geographically inaccurate. The interactive map has the advantage of being geographically accurate but is not labeled.
 * I believe the best solution would be to use Metra's official system map, but since under-construction stations are not shown on their official maps, we should wait a few months until is completed. Hotdog with ketchup (talk) 14:49, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Highliner II builder
The disputed source doesn't say who the builder was going to be. The Highliner article is effectively unsourced. Mackensen (talk) 18:59, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

New header picture
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

would it be possible for a more up to date header picture such as one of the recently rebuilt F40PH-3s? I feel like the F59PHI isn’t so fitting now considering Metra is entirely rebuilding most of their fleet. thanks! Railfan 124 (talk) 22:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Metra


text:
Talk:Mass transit in Chicago

minor?
An article re-write is not minor. Please do not check minor unless the edit is actually minor. Tedernst | talk 18:48, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
There are too many pictures at the top- some should be moved down or deleted.

blue line accident
shouldn't there be something about the accidents, most notably the recent blue line derailment? 24.167.210.33 23:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Mass transit in Chicago


text: User talk:68.188.243.149

title: User talk:68.188.243.149


text:
Albanian Party of Democratic Reforms

Albanian Party of Democratic Reforms (in Albanian: Partia e Reformave Demokratike Shqiptare) is a political party in Albania led by Skender Halili.

PRDSH is part of the coalition Democratic Movement for Integration. Halili is the leader of the coalition.

title: Albanian Party of Democratic Reforms


text: Category:Slayers characters

title: Category:Slayers characters


text:
Mattar paneer

Mattar paneer (मटर पनीर), also known as matar paneer, muttar paneer, and mutter paneer, is a modern restaurant-style and vegetarian punjabi dish  consisting of peas and paneer in a tomato-based sauce, spiced with garam masala.

It is often served with rice and an Indian type of bread (naan, paratha, poori, or roti depending on region). Various other ingredients are often added, such as potato (aloo), corn, yogurt or cream.

title: Mattar paneer


text:
The Daredevils

The Daredevils was a comics magazine and anthology published by Marvel UK in 1983. Aimed for a more sophisticated audience than typical light superhero adventures, The Daredevils featured Captain Britain stories by Alan Moore and Alan Davis paired with reprints of Frank Miller's Daredevil stories. It has been speculated this was in response to Dez Skinn's new anthology Warrior.

Publishing history
Editor Bernie Jaye gave writer Alan Moore and artist Alan Davis, rising stars in the comics industry at the time, considerable freedom in terms of the material they produced. Aside from the occasional pull-out posters, all contents were printed in black-and-white, not colour. The magazine had a circulation of around 25,000 copies, and lasted eleven issues before merging with The Mighty World of Marvel.

Captain Britain
Always the first story in any issue, Captain Britain continued the "Jaspers' Warp" storyline from Marvel Super-Heroes, which Alan Moore had recently taken over writing with Alan Davis as artist. The strip would be continued in The Mighty World of Marvel after The Daredevils was cancelled.

Daredevil
Issues from Frank Miller's Daredevil run were reprinted in black and white, giving the series its title. The stories were originally printed in Daredevil (Vol. 1) #159-170.

The Amazing Spider-Man
Black-and-white reprints of Stan Lee and John Romita material, continued from Marvel UK's Spider-Man Pocketbook series. This feature was dropped after four issues.

"Star Death"/"4-D War"/"Black Sun Rising"
Reprints of Moore's Doctor Who Monthly strips that introduced the Special Executive, running in #5-7.

"Grit"
One-off Daredevil spoof by Moore and Mike Collins featured in #8. It was Collins' first professional work.

The Origin of the Crusader
One-off humour strip by Davis and Paul Neary featured in #9. Originally printed in Hulk reprint title Rampage Monthly #41 in 1981, this was Davis' first published professional work.

Earth 33⅓
An occasional three-panel humour strip by Tim Quinn and Dicky Howett.

Night Raven
New stories featuring the masked vigilante introduced in Hulk Comic, written by Moore and illustrated by Davis, ran from #6-11.

Text features

 * Moore penned opinion columns including an analysis of Frank Miller's Daredevil in #1, "an affectionate character assassination" of Stan Lee in #4-5 and Invisible Girls and Phantom Women, a text feature on sexism in #4-6.
 * Steve Moore contributed pieces on Asian comics in #6-8.
 * Convention reports from Hasan Yusuff
 * Fanzine Reviews: pieces on comic-related fanzines, again written by Moore.
 * Early artwork: profiles of artists including Garry Leach (#1), Jerry Paris (#2) John Higgins (#4), Dave Gibbons (#5) and Alan Davis (#8).
 * News Feature: American comic industry news column from Frank Plowright.
 * Comic Mart: where readers could post the comics they had on offer and those they wanted.
 * Letters: reader letters, including a cartoon sent in by Lew Stringer that would lead to his first professional commission.

Reception
The comic won 'Favourite U.K. Comic' at the 1984 Eagle Awards.

title: The Daredevils


text:
Consumed (band)

Consumed is an English punk rock band formed in 1992 on the outskirts of Nottingham. It was signed to Fat Wreck Chords, then moved to BYO Records and Golf Records shortly before the release of the album Pistols at Dawn. The band toured the UK, Europe, Scandinavia, the U.S., and Canada and also appeared regularly at surf and skate festivals in the mid-to late-1990s.

The band's first incarnation was called Desecrator (formed in 1989), which played death metal and released one album in 1991, titled Subconscious Release.

The track "Heavy Metal Winner" was used in the 2000 video game Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 and in the HD version, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater HD, in 2012. It was added to the 2020 remake Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1+2. It was also used in the 2002 video game Totaled!.

The band broke up in 2003 but reformed in 2015 and is currently active. Consumed released a video for the track "What Would Cliff Burton Do?" in May 2018. The band's EP A Decade of No was released in July 2018 by SBÄM Records in Europe and Umlaut Records in the UK.

Current

 * Steve Ford – guitar, vocals (1994–2003; 2015–present)
 * Will Burchell – guitar, vocals (2000–2003; 2015–present)
 * Wes Wasley – bass guitar, vocals (2000–2003; 2015–present)
 * Chris Billam – drums (1994–2003; 2015–present)

Former

 * Baz Barrett – bass guitar (1996–2000)
 * Mike Ford – guitar, vocals (1994–2001)

Touring musicians

 * Steve Watson – bass guitar (1994–1996)
 * Luke Moss – bass guitar (2003)
 * Jay Chapman – bass guitar (1994)

Albums/EPs

 * Breakfast at Pappa's EP (1998) Fat Wreck Chords
 * Hit for Six (1999) Fat Wreck Chords
 * Pistols at Dawn (2002) Golf / BYO Records
 * A Decade of No EP (2018) SBAM / Umlaut Records

Music videos

 * "Wake Up with a Smile" (1999)
 * "What Would Cliff Burton Do?" (2018)

Compilations

 * Don't Do It (1996) Spin Out Records
 * Short Music for Short People (1999) Fat Wreck Chords
 * Fat Music Vol. IV: Life in the Fat Lane (1999) Fat Wreck Chords
 * Fat Music Vol. V: Live Fat, Die Young (2001) Fat Wreck Chords
 * Greetings from the Welfare State BYO Records
 * Deck Cheese, Volume 2 Deck Cheese Records

title: Consumed (band)


text:
Southern Arizona Transportation Museum

The Southern Arizona Transportation Museum is a railroad museum in Tucson, Arizona. It is located in the former records vault building at the former Southern Pacific Depot, which was renovated by the City of Tucson in 2004.

The museum does not charge for admission. Guided tours of the facility are available for a small fee, by appointment only. The museum offers community events, downtown historic walking tours (October–March), railroad safety education, an oral history program and an active collections department preserving artifacts pertaining to transportation in southern Arizona.

Southern Pacific 1673
Southern Pacific locomotive #1673 is on display at the museum. The 2-6-0 M-4b Mogul locomotive was built for the Southern Pacific Railroad by Schenectady Locomotive Works of Schenectady, New York in November 1900. The locomotive is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

Depot
The depot lobby is currently used as a waiting room for passengers using Amtrak trains, and the rest of the depot and buildings are leased to various businesses.

Silver Spike Festival
Every year in March, the Southern Arizona Transportation Museum, located in downtown Tucson, holds the Silver Spike Festival. The festival commemorates the arrival of the train to Tucson, in March, 1880. The 2014 event, had such notable guests as Mayor Jonathan Rothschild and Arizona Daily Star newspaper columnist David Leighton. The event also included a reenactment by descendants of some of the early pioneers (i.e. Estevan Ochoa, P.R. Tully, and Robert Leatherwood) of Tucson and music from the 4th United States Cavalry Regiment Band.

title: Southern Arizona Transportation Museum


text: User talk:205.174.111.246

title: User talk:205.174.111.246


text:
Talk:Deniece Williams

Deniece Williams - "Love, Niecy Style" (2007)
Multiple Grammy-winner Deniece Williams has the voice of an angel. On "Love, Niecy Style" she delivers spine-tingling interpretations of her favorite classics as well as original compositions!!

 * That's How Heartaches Are Made (with Stevie Wonder)
 * Love's Holiday (with Philip Bailey)
 * This Time I'll Be Sweeter
 * If You Really Love Me
 * Someday We'll All Be Free
 * Cherish
 * Lady Love Me (with George Duke)
 * The Only Thing Missing (with Everette Harp)
 * Never Too Much
 * Cause You Love Me Baby

Born in 1950 or '51?
Most of the online bios I'd seen of of Miss Williams gave her birth year as 1951, but after doing a google search I've discovered that there are just as many online sources saying she was born in 1950. The clincher is an article that appeared in an issue of the UK TV/Radio listings magazine Radio Times. It was part of a series of interview/profiles of various radio personalities - and this particular profile was of Miss Williams, in which she gives her age as "53 years young!" (this was in the early weeks of 2004, before her June 3rd bitrhday). That's seems a pretty reliable source to show she was born in 1950. If anyone has more reliable sources as to her being born in 1951 then please do share. - Crisso 16:46, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Whistle Register
just out of curiosity, what songs does she access the whistle register in??? 67.181.94.96 01:44, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure of that myself. The highest note I've heard her hit was a D6 in two songs: "Black Butterfly" and "Let's Hear It For The Boy". She may have hit a higher note in some other songs, though... Anonymous

 * Deniece is noted as singing in the background on Minnie Riperton's "Every Time He Comes Around". If that is Niecy, then she is hitting some VERY high, Minnie-like notes, well above D6. FamousBobby 05:14, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

 * The highest in that song of what I heard is G6. Myke 20:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

if you all haven't heard her 1978 cover of "Until You Come Back To Me (That's What I'm Gonna Do), you will hear some very high notes. if anyone wants the mp3, just send me an email at oldschoolfreak@gmail.com Drmagic 01:19, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

If you listen to her song "If You Don't Believe", you will hear her hit an F6 note towards the end of the song. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gospoman (talk • contribs) 20:14, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

On her song Why Can't We Fall In Love? from her 1979 album When Love Comes Calling, towards the end of the song she hits an astounding and impressive G6 note. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:6CBA:4400:4C92:D1A9:7724:C3D7 (talk) 23:50, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Such debate is unwarranted
For persons to be questioning whether or not Deniece Williams is able to sing in the whistle register is a waste of time and goes to show how much time people have to waste. The texture of Deniece's voice tells that she possesses such ability. Not because you have only heard two songs that to you do not showcase her full potential should in no way make you doubt her ability. Remember that Ms. Williams has a large number of albums both in secular and gospel. I myself does not have a quarter of her recordings but from what I have heard so far I am satisfied. Songs such as 'Why can't we fall in love', 'I found love', her live version of 'God is truly amazing' and the duet with Sandi Patti, 'They say' and other outings satify me that Deniece Williams can sing in the whistle register. One must take into consideration that everyone's voice is different, therefore Mariah and Chante`s whisling ability doesn't sound the same, neither does Shanice and Minnie Riperton. From what I have been reading about this whole whistling contention, no one seems to have a set definition of what is the whistle register, whether it is in G6 or E6. All I care to know is that those singers who so far have been listed on the Whistle Register list which include Deniece Williams can do what talented singers like Anita Baker, Aretha Franklin and Celine Dion can't do; even though without any doubt these singers named are more talented and accomplished than many of those on the list.This tells me that the contention should not then be about who truly possesses this ability, but rather who can do it better - Thus the 'sheep needs to be separated from the 'goat'.

 * Thank you. TamYum 17:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

who is Chante`? Drmagic 22:31, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Chante Moore is the singer who had the hit song, 'Chante' got a man', and the duet with Kci ,'In a different light' on the latter she showcases her whistling ability and on other songs that she does live. Chante is also married to Kenny Lattimore and two or so years back they put out a duet album.

 * Dude, this shit sucks.

Jazze Pha
I'm confused about this subject. I keep reading and hearing that she is his mother, but then there are other reports that say that his mother is a singer named Denise Williams, but this is not the one. Can anyone provide evidence of this? Thanks! TamYum 02:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

'Atlanta-based Jazze Pha (born Phalon Alexander), the son of original Bar-Kays bassist James Alexander and chart-topping R&B singer Deniece Williams'......This information is taken from Artistdirect's bio of Jazze Pha. This confirms that Deniece Williams is the mother of him. You can visit All Music Guide site and read this info....June 12, 2006

I interviewed Jazze Pha for allhiphop.com this afternoon and he confirmed that his mother is not THE Deniece Williams. She is a woman of the same name. If you want to cite it, the interview should be up in a few weeks.

Deniece's Birthday
I have seen where Deniece's birth date has been questioned. well from what I have seen reported from the Grand Forks Herald and the Almanac her birthday is June 3, 1951...Making her 55 in 2006.
 * There are loads of sources online giving 1950 and 1951 as her birth year - those two don't seem to be any more reliable than all the others. Deniece saying she was 53 in a January 2004 interview seems to be the most reliable. Crisso 14:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

considering you're the only one who's apparently heard this interview, it's hearsay. not saying you're making it up but who knows? she could've been saying "54" rather than saying "53 going on 54". some people do that you know? anyway i've modified the article to reflect the fact she may have been born in either year. Drmagic 15:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea. I was thinking as 1950 and '51 have been given in equal measure the RT interview seemed to be the only source that came near to confirming one over the other. I'm sure the truth will out eventually. Crisso 16:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't get why we are now going for 1951 when there are so many other sources saying 1950 - even her official site is saying 1950! We should at the very least list both years. Crisso (talk) 19:58, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Broadcasting Career
Does anyone have any more info on her career in broadcasting? I know she did a radio show in the UK (I'm not sure if it's been on air since 2004) but I remember hearing that she's done other radio shows in other countries and was thinking they should probably be mentioned too. Crisso 16:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Misleading Information
'Williams' career began in the 1970s when she became a backup vocalist for Stevie Wonder, who was the opening act for The Rolling Stones at the time, and Minnie Riperton.'

The above quote extracted from Deniece's biography gives a clear impression that Stevie Wonder was an opening act for Minnie Riperton. This is not true. How can Stevie Wonder be an opening act for an artist that he himself is bigger than in terms of accomplishments and more importantly, an artist that at that time he had employed as a member of his backing band/group 'Wonderlove'. This would suggest that Stevie Wonder was opening for his background vocals. Information available has confirmed that Minnie after a two years sabatical in Florida returned on the scene around 72/73 and was hired by Stevie as a part of his Wonderlove group; which included Deniece Williams. Therefore, correction is needed..................June 28, 2006

Denieces re-addition to Whistle Register
I have provided some new information that I believe is sufficient to enlist Deniece Williams back on the list as it meets the criteria for entrance to the list. kudeh 10/28/06  2:43

I have seen where some anonymous editor has seen it fit to remove Deniece Williams name from off the whistle list without declaring what makes her unacceptable. there are several references in the article that speaks to Deniece's voice likeness; I do not think the word whistle has to be there to make her qualified. Especially when there are references and cross-references that in my opinion clearly indicate that she posesses the ability. I must note also that the Rolling stone magazine/site in their review of Mariah's Emotion album describes her high notes as falsetto and not whistle or superhead or coloratura soprano, or whatever term seems to be expected; this proves my point that whistle is a terminology created by wikipedians or rather after Minnie's (unfortunate) death. I would appreciate anyone seeing the need to remove Deniece's name to please SAY why s/he is doing so. Remember Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, built on research...can we help each other in this regard by pointing out errors and directing others to facts? Kudeh November 4, 2006    11:23pm

Too Much, Too Little, Too Late
Why is this song not mentioned in the article about her? Could some one please add it. The article about the song lists her as co-singer of this #1 song. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Penthrift (talk • contribs) 12:00, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Deniece Williams. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150623234321/http://www.popmatters.com/music/reviews/s/scottjill-experience.shtm/ to http://www.popmatters.com/music/reviews/s/scottjill-experience.shtm

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 19:06, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

There is more than one album in a section
Deniece Williams did sing on Roberta Flack’s 1975 album, but she did sing backup on Blue Lights In The Basement, because she is credited as an backing vocalist. Can this be added? 2601:406:4200:8E90:CDDF:AEF:831B:69D5 (talk) 20:51, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

 * I can say that this can be added, because that the page already contains that Mrs. Deniece did sing background for the album, but there is an biography of living persons policy on this article, but I will just leave it there for now.Oldschoollover24 (talk) 21:53, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Deniece Williams


text:
Princess Astrid Coast

Princess Astrid Coast (Prinsesse Astrid Kyst) is a portion of the coast of Queen Maud Land, Antarctica, lying between 5° and 20° E. The entire coast is bordered by ice shelves. The region was discovered by Capt. H. Halvorsen of the Sevilla (ship) in March 1931 and in 1932 was named for Princess Astrid of Norway. The ice of the continental glacier is up to 4,000 meters thick in the interior. These thick glaciers are held in place by coastal mountain ranges. On the Princess Astrid Coast, some of the ice does flow through the mountains, spilling onto the relatively flat land on the Princess Astrid Coast. Also, the cold air spills over the mountains, creating very strong and persistent winds, which makes the snow scour off the tops of the glaciers leaving pale blue patches of bare ice. On top of the coastal line is the ice shelf, which is much smoother. The glacial ice floats on the sea surface which is beyond the chaotic surface of the sea ice which has been solidifying all winter long.

Off the Princess Astrid Coast are the Lazarev Sea and Riiser-Larsen Sea, both marginal seas of the Southern Ocean. According to the Norwegian point of view, King Haakon VII Sea stretches in that place and along the entire coast of Queen Maud land. The central part of Princess Astrid Coast lies the Schiermacher Oasis, where the Soviet Novolazarevskaia scientific station has been operating since 1961. Previously (1959–1961) the Soviet Lazarev Station operated in the Princess Astrid Coast region. The Coast was discovered in 1931 by Norwegian whalers and was named after a Norwegian princess who was called Princess Astrid. Since 1959 the Princess Astrid Coast has been a region of systematic research by the Soviet antarctic expeditions.

title: Princess Astrid Coast


text:
Talk:List of storms named Gordon

Untitled
Now if there is a name I want retired in 2006, it is Gordon (make up for the WMO's total ignorance after 1994)... CrazyC83 16:47, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Should a Gordon in 2006 kill anybody, they would have died for the people of Haiti. :) -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 01:36, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Page issue
Both Gordon (1994) and Gordon (2000) have articles, so if Gordon (2006) is bad enough to get its name retired, this page will become unnecessary as they will all have on-page links... CrazyC83 20:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Hurricane Gordon (1994) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 14:30, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Hurricane Gordon (1994) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:32, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 31 May 2023
Tropical Storm Gordon → List of storms named Gordon – The page should be moved to said page because the title is a bit "clickbaiting" since it's a disambiguation and most of the tropical cyclones listed did not have a maximum sustained winds of a tropical storm. The new name reflects on all tropical storms and sounds more predictable on where it'll redirect when a user stumbles on it. 📖 (💬/📜)  23:38, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Done since these pages need to be consistently named. This is a Set Index Article list, not a disambiguation. When the project set these pages up, they incorrectly labeled them disambiguations but they contain way too much information to be a disambig. They are simply lists describing all storms named X. I will get around to renaming these pages when I can. Noah Talk 02:39, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your response. Since I don't want you to be so tired, I will assist in renaming some set index article lists. 📖 (💬/📜)  18:10, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I would hold off for at least a week to give people a chance to respond to the comment I left at the project page. Noah Talk 21:44, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Its fine as its something thats been ongoing for several years now and has been discussed before.Jason Rees (talk) 22:45, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of storms named Gordon