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User talk:Huaiwei/Archive F

Teochew
See Talk:Teochew (dialect). -- ran (talk) July 7, 2005 03:35 (UTC)
 * Hey...will come to this later. I do need to run off soon....would prob reply to you on Sunday if I get my PC back. So sorry for the delay again!--Huaiwei 8 July 2005 17:05 (UTC)

Three revert rule
You have been blocked for 24 hours under the three revert rule. If you wish to appeal please contact another administrator or the mailing list.Geni 11:13, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
 * How will I be able to "contact" anyone if I will not be able to edit?--Huaiwei 11:24, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

 * by email.Geni 11:36, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Not that I'd be volunteering to be your meatpuppet... but if you find yourself in the position of revert warring with Instantnood you can IM or email me to see if I'd like to show some community consensus. SchmuckyTheCat 18:54, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Re : Jeez...
Hey Huaiwei,

You're right, I was on a WikiVacation for personal reasons. I'm pretty much returned from Wikipedia now, but at this time everything else I have online has basically gone dead (and probably for the upcoming months). I'll still be around at Wikipedia, occasionally taking breaks, if you need anything you can always still drop a message on my talkpage.

- Mailer Diablo 16:01, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

 * A real life meetup? Perhaps so in future, if I can actually find time to get away from having to mug away! =D - Mailer Diablo 16:13, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Shoot First Write Later
Hi Huaiwei,

I have actually shot the following photos around Singapore, they are somewhat prominent places but they don't have an article to follow up yet. =P

The following is the list of images. You know what to do. ;)

 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ShawHouseSG.JPG
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BugisJunction.JPG
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BrasBasahComplex.JPG
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lakeside-mrt.JPG
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Chinesegarden-mrt.JPG
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Commonwealth-mrt.JPG
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MRT-Stationfac.JPG

Thanks in advance!

- Cheers, Mailer Diablo 16:53, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Haha ok fine...I get your message. :D--Huaiwei 16:55, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Chingay Parade is on Main Page !
It's up on Main Page at the "Did you know ... " section, Haha... --Vsion 09:30, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Hahaha!!! And how old was that page? A few days? :D Thanks for helping in that article btw! ;)--Huaiwei 09:43, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Since other sysops haven't sent your an official notice, let me have the honour to do so! =D - Mailer Diablo 15:02, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Wakaoz....what an annoucement! :D Anyway I didnt noe someone made a request for it (or tt we can make the request)...Was it you who did the request? ;)--Huaiwei 16:23, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Hong Kong-related Articles

It's sometimes difficult to listen to foreigners about their opinions when you're talking about their stuff and quite sure that you're right and they're wrong. However, sometimes things are done that way by custom and it's hard for you to change it.

I myself had been lately in conflicts with some Americans and Australians about the significance of their governments to the entire world. However, what I found out, at last, is the fact that no matter what I do, it makes no effect. The best way to do with foreign stuff is to listen to people from that place.

Therefore, as a foreigner, I hope you can listen to we Hong Kongers' opinions about the Hong Kong relating articles and stop the edit war. To show my concern and courtesy, I'll give you this offering of peace - the peace dove.

Please reply to my talk page if there's any room for further negotiation. Thanks. Deryck C. 16:36, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Hong Kong-related Articles
Thanks so much for your sharing, though not on my talk page, on your feelings. It is always better to express and to let other people what's going around in your mind.

Over the past few months, I'd rather say, excuse me for saying in this way, that you do not know thoroughly about the situation with Hong Kong, and the psychology among Hongkongers, that have led to misunderstanding and wrong interpretations. Yes Hong Kong is now under PRC sovereignty, but that does not mean that Hong Kong is nothing more than an ordinary subnational entity like other provinces and autonomous regions. It is, and will continue to be, different from the mainland.

To my understanding Hongkongers never deny their Chinese identity. They're proud to be Chinese, its culture, its history.. They support the PRC national football team in international matches (well, except for the matches with the Hong Kong team). At the same time they treasure the uniqueness of Hong Kong, its path of history, and the differences that Hong Kong has maintained from the mainland. It was, indeed, the vision of late Deng Xiaoping to preserve such uniqueness. There is no sinophobia, but rather, phobia towards waning of such uniqueness. They wouldn't hide their Chinese identity, but they equally treasure their Hong Kong identity.. they would'nt be happy to be equated with mainland Chinese by other people. They would grumble, say, if they're denied from boarding at the Madrid Airport for having no visa for entry to the UK on their Hong Kong passports.

Hong Kong has continued to be governed on its own. Its government deals with most local affairs. It is treated on the international arena, say, trade issues, on its own, along with other countries. It is certainly wrong, in the eyes of Hongkongers or those who are familiar with Hong Kong, to undermine its status, and treat it as the same level as other provinces. The way you labelled me, and the word "sinophobia", reminded me of some officials from Beijing accusing Hongkongers as unpatriotic for requesting a faster pace of democratisation some time last year :'(.

I guess both of us are looking for a way out. Frankly, I'm tired with following your edits. But what you edit do makes me, and probably other Hong Kong wikipedians, worried and uncomfortable. (It's not a crime or a sin on Wikipedia, and warnings can't get me away. Your edits can.) If I remember correctly, we first came across each other with airline destinations, which you never agree with listing Hong Kong on its own. Please don't say what you're doing is a reaction to my scrutinising. That's not true. You insisted in your point of view before we actually went into series of edit battles.

I have the same desires for peace, as much as other wikipedians do. (But your prejudice might have told you that's not true.) Everytime I bring a matter to the talk page I do hope there would be a nice piece of third party opinion. As a matter of fact, I didn't even know there was a WikiProject Kindness Campaign. The idea of peace dove is actually very new... I would have given one to you if I knew about the drive earlier. I suppose you'd appreciate as much as I do the efforts by other wikipedians to settle the months-old disputes. Let's work together to bring peace. :-) — Instantnood 19:23, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmm....interesting read, thou nothing nothing surprising to me at all, to be honest. I still remember you "demanding" that local opinion be respected, as thou "foreigner's" views are suspect, and they will never know locals as well. Yes of coz I wont ever pretend to know about HK more then a local HKer, but that level of understanding dosent seem to be required when analysing the state of sinophobia here. And yes, try as you might in down-playing it (and I am fully aware of almost all examples you quote above), I have personally observed the level of social prejudice and contempt displayed towards Mainlanders in the most "unsual" ways. Ever tried analysing the tonnes of movies churned out by the HK media industry? You guys should be thanking someone like me who buys plenty of DVDs from HK direct. I personally own over 60 titles by now, and including the ones I have seen on TV for my entire life, I have consistently observed the way mainlanders are being portrayed in them. Not nice, to say the least, most of the time. The stereotype is obviously there. For another quick and much more recent example, when I was planning a trip to HK just last month, and when I told my local friends who have been to HK about my worries over the impending language handicap, they told me to always strike up a conversation in English first, before falling back to Mandarin should that fail. Otherwise, they are "not going to respect you", if I may quote directly.

 * What does this say on HKers in general?

 * I am not particularly alien to the idea of sinophobia between fellow ethnic Chinese. You might be delighted to know it exists right here in Singapore too, and perhaps to an even larger degree, because they are swarming into this place, and consciously or not, earning themselves a rather bad name as a whole to some extent. But the big difference here, is that Singaporeans usually dont shy away from expressing their sinophobia attitudes...obviously to fellow Singaporeans, and even on the international stage if need be. HKers, despite showing obvious signs of having the same thoughs on their northern breathren, seems to keep it to themselves, yet letting it out in obvious tell tale signs which are not difficult to catch. Your behavior is one of them.

 * I know all along about the love-hate relationship HKers have with China. HKers see China as a money-milking machine, yet adopt a "not in my backyard" attitude when it comes to mainland Chinese coming to HK to seek opportunities. HKers may "not deny they are Chinese", so to speak, but they do often deny themselves as Chinese nationals. One is more of a cultural thing, the other political. And even in terms of Chinese culture, HKers pride themselves in having arrived materially, spiritually, and intellectually compared to the Mainland Chinese at large. As fellow Chinese, I am more then aware of the Chinese tendencies in using material wants as a guage of human archievements and statue. This is no exception.

 * Hence, to deny that HK is a part of the PRC does appear to fit much too nicely into the above. Its not like I dont know about the one country two systems formular. Its not like I dont know HK has much autonomy over its affairs. And its not like I dont know it often gets treated like a "country", since this was the case prior to 1997, and China has allowed this practise to largely carry on. But this does not mean the situation can then be exploited to express sinophobia. In fact, your constant contentions that the line "HK, China" is akeen to equating HK with other subdivisions of the PRC makes little sense to me, and causes me to wonder if that is just part and parcel to your sensitivites of being equated with another mainlander. HK, China just means precisely what it is. HK is a part of China. No questions asked. Whether this means it is the same as other Chinese subdivisions, that is obviously another story altogether. Is Xinjiang, China the same as Hunan, China, and is that the same as Beijing, China? No. So why should HK, China be interpreted as the same then?

 * The term Hong Kong, China does not undermine it in anyway as so described. Listing HK under China does not have any negative effect either. It simply reflects the political realities, and I dont see how this should be debatable.

 * As for that airline thingy, I suppose you did not realise, that when you came to wikipedia in January 2005, I was already embroiled in the same edit wars with an anon. Interestingly, this person did precisely the same edits as you, and I was not the only one who started having to undo his edits. For some unexplained reasons, this person suddenly dissapeared from view, and instantnood was born. Why this happens, I have no idea. If you are the same person, then that is hardly our first encounter. If not, then you deciding to join in the disputes is obviously calling for a sharp response from me when I was freshly fueding with someone else.

 * Still, I am certainly hearterned to know that some desires for "peace" is still present here, real or otherwise. I am not too concerned about whether it is an act of hypocricy or not in a way...so long that the dumb edits stop, then I would be more then happy. But whatever the case, peace dont come just be expressing a desire for it. If neither party wishes to come to a logical compromise, then I dont see how anything could be advanced here. This call for compromise isnt the first, and have failed in the past. What shall make the difference now? I await to see a miracle.--Huaiwei 20:18, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Deryck's Stand
It may surprise you if I tell you that I never intended to "back Instantnood" by any means - at least, I opposed having the HK flag coming with a "national flag status". What I'm doing is just to try asserting my own opinions and views and apply them on wikipedia.

I often thought that things on wikipedia are really too tight. People in FAC discussion cross out 80% of my comments by a reason "not conforming/applying to FAS rules". As I can see, most wikipedians are doing exactly the same, and this is what I'm afraid of.

I just really, really hope that you're not going to fall into the same trap by applying man-made rules without a room for exception.

It's seen by all of us that, despite the general rules for a "national library", the Catalonian Library went onto the list. My view is that, if there's one exception, why can't there be another? Life and rules shall all be flexible.

However your view is that, we've violate the rule once. Of course we don't want to violate it twice.

There's no absolute right or wrong between the 2 views (the believer of a flexible life and the believer of absolutely correct rules). However, should the custom "do in Rome what the Romans do" a better way to solve this problem?

Hoping for your reply. Deryck C. 07:07, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

(see User talk:Deryck Chan for related discussion.)

 * It's true that I've saw your delays in replying to our acts. In fact, recently I'm in quite a conflict with Instantnood about the "national flag" stuff. Everybody got his unique stand, but by concensus I hope all of us can work well together!!! Deryck C. 13:41, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah...I was away for duty the whole day till an hour ago when I got back. I am quite mentally drained now, a mental state which is not usually good for negotations, as my patience will tend to be particularly lacking then. :D Anyway, I am not sure why you guys "like" to use terms which seem a little too strong. "Conflict" sounds like a fight is going on, when I simply see it as a disagreement. Men do agree and disagree..., but the gentleman is born when he knows how to handle disagreements diplomatically, rationaly, maturely, and with tact, wont you agree? ;) I, too, hope for an amicable solution to all these!--Huaiwei 13:49, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * If the term "conflict" is a bit over-the-top to you, Hueiwai, which word do you think is the most suitable? Debate? Ding-dong? Or ballyhoo? Personally, I think "argument" is the best to describe the present situation. :-D -- Jerry Crimson Mann 14:46, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I did mention the prefered word above..."disagreements".--Huaiwei 14:48, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Pretty politically correct, eh? This word sounds neutral to a certain extent. :) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 15:05, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Probably. I do take the time to pick the exact words I use to convey the exact sense of intensity I would like to express. I would have tot others would too.--Huaiwei 15:11, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Find the rest of the Singapore community! Talk
Hi Huaiwei, saw you posting at my talk. Thanks for notifying me about it. By the way, you might have forgotten about adding SGpedians' notice board into the community ;) --Tohlz 19:00, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

List of companies in the People's Republic of China
I stumbled across the List of companies in the People's Republic of China article and just wanted to remind you to tread carefully, othewise you may end up violating the the three revert rule. I'm not taking sides or anything, just a gentle reminder. Also, you may want to consider dispute resolution if you an instanthood cannot come to agreement on the article. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 07:18, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for the reminder. This is not the first time I have had similar disputes with him, and so far, I think most avenues for dispute resolution has been used to no anvail. In fact, I think an arbcom is on-going against him now, although it was not initiated by me. Still, I thank you for the kind reminder once again! ;)--Huaiwei 07:40, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Electronic Road Pricing
Mind telling from where did you get the following information: " The study also included a simulation of the Singapore Area Licensing Scheme-based 12-hour manual toll collecting system "? Thanks. :-D — Instantnood 10:52, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * Transport for Urban Development in Hong Kong. Its an academic article, so I dont think it can be far wrong.--Huaiwei 10:56, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks Huaiwei. :-) — Instantnood 11:08, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
 * You are most welcome.--Huaiwei 11:11, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Nantah, Nicoll Hwy, etc
Good expand on Nantah. Guess I was too zoned out to be trying to write properly in the wee hours A.M. =b

Just to let you know, I've gone ahead and expanded a victims section for Nicoll Highway collapse. I don't think anything important is lost by omitting the Thai worker mention - other workers, too, recounted his bravery. Other sectins on causes and inquiry findings will take some time - school is in! *ack*

You're on starhub cable aren't you? I got hit by your 3RR due to shared proxy. =Þ

-- Hamstersanonymous 17:07, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Hoho....no lah its ok. I onlay managed to splash down what I can remember off my head...there might be errors too! :D

 * For the Nicoll Highway page, I shall wait for you to finish the thing and update the main page bwefore commenting? Dont want to interfer too much in your work...haha!

 * Amd yes, I am on starhub cable. So sorry that it hit you (did you inform an admin about this? They shld be able to help you), although I am a bit surprised starhubs shares IPs...always tot it was supposed to be user-specific. I myself was banned from wiki before by no fauilt of my own when others were hit! :D Once again, I apologise for the inconvenience...--Huaiwei 14:28, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Haha no prob, everyone learns to live with little inconveniences like that. Just trivia la. =Þ It did force me to spend the rest of the evening getting ready for the start of the semester! =Þ --Hamstersanonymous 03:15, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Motion joining Huaiwei to the Instantnood arbitration case
I have made a motion joining you to the Instantnood arbitration case. You may oppose or comment on the motion at Requests_for_arbitration/Instantnood_2/Workshop. Fred Bauder 14:10, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm...do I reply under the "parties" or "others" category? Thanks! :D --Huaiwei 14:31, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Others, I'd guess, until other arbitrators decide to act on the motion. SchmuckyTheCat 17:40, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Requests_for_arbitration/Instantnood_2/Workshop has passed with the support of four arbitrators. Please make any statement you wish at Requests_for_arbitration/Instantnood_2 Fred Bauder 14:57, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

About the official Language of Macau
How can I to correct that? Can I correct it directly? Or I need to back up the original information?--HeiChon~XiJun 16:07:59, 2005-07-30 (UTC)
 * hmm....I not sure what you refering to?--Huaiwei 17:14, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Do you remember the following?
 * "About Official Language
 * The official language of Macau is Chinese and Portuguese but int strickly speaking it should clearly shown that both Cantonese and Mandarin official de facto, which is the same of in Hong Kong.--HeiChon~XiJun 09:29:53, 2005-07-25 (UTC)

 * Agree. Be bold and edit the infobox~ :-D — Instantnood 08:14, July 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * Before being bold, any primary data to back this up?--Huaiwei 12:15, 27 July 2005 (UTC)"

 * Can I correct that all by myself?--HeiChon~XiJun 16:57:29, 2005-07-31 (UTC)
 * ohoh. What I meant was whether you have a third-party source to back up that edit. Thats all. ;)--Huaiwei 17:11, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

 * What kind of source would you expect? :-) — Instantnood 18:22, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Airlines talk
Hope you don't mind but, I'm splitting your comment on cargo and destinations, on the talk page to a new heading. I think your destinations and cargo discussion needs to be more noticable since it is an important topic. Vegaswikian 19:19, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh sure, that is alright. ;)--Huaiwei 05:43, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Value added tax
I won't revert your recent edit to value added tax for the time being, but I supposed there could be some better ways to present that piece of information in the footnote, to avoid creating the confusion that special administrative region are just tax exemption areas where special economic laws and policies apply. Any idea? — Instantnood 18:22, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, as I always say, revert only if you have a damn good reason for it. I seriously cannot comprehend just how paranoid you are in things related to HK's autonomy, with your hyper-sensitivity towards anything which may suggest otherwise, real or imagined. Further more, I dont see how the previous presentation makes it any more clearer to readers? I would just like you to take two steps back, see things holistically, and realise its not as "misleading" or "demeaning to HK" as you think it is.--Huaiwei 18:37, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply, and for sharing with me your own insightful observation (and imagination). I guess I'd have to consult some people who are unfamiliar with China, Hong Kong and Macao to comment on if it's confusing, and how it can be improved. Any suggestion where we can get such people? — Instantnood 18:52, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * Hah...erm...I dont know. The usual way wikipedia works is to either wait for someone to edit it saying its confusing, for dialogue to be triggered in the discussion page, or if you really want to, a request for comment even??--Huaiwei 18:58, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This is the apropriate way to do it. This kind of article isn't the apropriate place to explain the political situation of HK to the reader.  If they want more information, they'll click the links. SchmuckyTheCat 02:08, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

No personal attacks
Please refrain from engaging in personal attacks against other users (e.g ), the No personal attacks policy makes it clear that they are never apropriate and can lead to your being blocked from editing. Thryduulf 16:24, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
 * On hindsight, yeah, I do feel I have overdone it in that particular instance. I suppose I cant resist the urge to get him off my back, so pardon me for that slip of the tongue (or fingers).--Huaiwei 16:51, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Table manner
Well, just asking for some trivial thingies: do u think the way Alanmak treated with my comment, stroking away instead of putting a new subtopic, a bit offensive? >:-( -- Jerry Crimson Mann 16:07, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm...actually it is not just "a bit offensive". That was plain rudeness and even highly inflammatory on his part...almost close to the despicable act of deleting comments made by others. That said, I hope you wont loose your anger over individuals like that. Let the community deal with him. You can be sure the vast majority of people here will sympathise with you too.--Huaiwei 16:18, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your advice. I'll consider it. :) -- Jerry Crimson Mann 18:00, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I should have listened to your advice. Alanmak has made even worse personal attack, which did upset me a lot. :'-( You should know I'm a sensible discussor all the time, and I'm willing to make constructive feedback in the negotiation. Unfortunately, Alanmak has black-mouthed me, calling me master****, and my work c***. Originally I was determined to turn the other cheek, but now I think do something an eye for an eye. What should I do now? -- Jerry Crimson Mann 05:26, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I have made a small comment over there. Quite embarrasing for me to do that actually. :D But lets see how it goes (with a little of my help to steer things in the right direction). Refrain from replying to him now, as that will place you in a worse position should this erupt into an issue to be brought up to the admins. Remember....keep cool! ;)--Huaiwei 07:08, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, be cool as a cucumber. Sigh... But I'm afraid I can hardly do so, as he insisted that he's not guilty but I was. But the fact is rather the opposite. See the newest development of the discussion. -- Jerry Crimson Mann 07:23, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Instantnood said he was a newbie, but, after reading your comment, I realised that I am more of a newbie than this guy...and I understand your embarassment...I ask for help from both you and your persistent "foe" Instantnood. (Also Schmuckythecat as well whom I've asked for help) Well, you two are both my good wikifriends I suppose, abd that's why I'm asking asistance from you two. But sorry for any inconvenience caused. :-( -- Jerry Crimson Mann 07:32, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * He may have joined Wikipedia earlier than you did, but he has made much much fewer edits than you. :-) — Instantnood 10:36, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

Domestic
As I have said in the edit summary, I don't think trade, extradition, aviation agreements are domestic affairs. You may be interested to take a look at domestic policy. If the word "own" sounds unprofessional to you, let's look for a good alternative. It's not accurate to say those affairs are all domestic. — Instantnood 12:54, August 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * So why dont you bring this up in that topic's discussion page instead of marching to my talk page to do the same thing?--Huaiwei 14:15, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reminder. — Instantnood 14:32, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

User talk pages (specifically User talk:Yuhui)
Hi, it is in fact allowed to remove comments (instead of archiving) from one's user_talk pages after one has responded to them. See Talk pages. Since the images mentioned in User talk:Yuhui have been removed, it is too late for him/her to respond, so he/she can in fact remove the comments about the deletion of those images. Thanks! -- Paddu 12:59, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm...ok. I based my comments on what happened before in other people's talkpages, when admins advised them against deleting anything least they be accused of removing evidence. I suppose I mistook an advise to be a policy, so I beg your pardon for that, and thank you for bringing this up to my attention! ;)--Huaiwei 15:03, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

List of mobile operators
Hey there! We both had the same idea at the same time, which is kinda odd ;) Anyway, I removed the two extra columns you added because the data on them was incomplete, if the turnover figures can be found for all of them then it'd be good to add back in. I wasn't sure exactly what the 'local market share' actually meant, e.g. for vodafone would that just be the UK's share, or vodafone's avg. market share in all markets? Regards :) -- Joolz 17:54, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh its ok...the only thing is if we leave the columns out, others probably wont feel the itch to go research on that! I have discovered that blank spaces seems to work very well here in encouraging community contributions. :D As for "local market share", it just means the company's share in its home country (which is why there was a column for country too). So for Vodafone, it would mean only in the UK. Would you think this info is helpful? I added it on the lines that we can indicate its market position locally too, and not just globally.--Huaiwei 18:17, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support
Hi Huaiwei. Thank you for supporting my recent RfA. I was surprised and humbled by the number of positives votes. I was especially touched by your vote (as well as SchmuckyTheCat's and Instantnood's votes). I hope I'm not reading too much into it, but I feel that this is a vote of confidence, and I'd like to repay you by trying to help the three of you come to a peaceful resolution regarding the China/Taiwan-related articles. I think you all got off to a bad start earlier this year, much of which can be attributed to genuine trolls/vandals. I'll try my best to help eradicate malicious vandalism and to work with genuine contributors like yourself to establish a new consensus based on mutual respect. Cheers, --MarkSweep 02:04, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * You certainly have every reason to be proud of this, for our votes show that you deserve it. ;) It is not easy for a mediator to be able to earn the respects from all parties involved, and I am saluting you for this feat. Thank you for your attempts to resolve the matter at hand, and I believe you willbe able to exercise the same degree of impartiality and fairness in all other cases you come across as an admin. So, my congratulations on your successful nomination, and God bless! ;)--Huaiwei 05:41, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Dairy Farm
I actually wonder if anybody would be looking for dairy farming at Dairy Farm (with a capital letter F). Articles link to Dairy Farm are all about the company, none is about the class of farming. In my opinion it should be disambiguated in the same manner like jail and airplane. Please join the discussion at talk:Dairy Farm. Thanks. — Instantnood 08:45, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Category:Cantonese terms
Didn't we agree at an earlier discussion at category talk:Mandarin terms that these categories for the time being would serve words, terms, phrases, and loanwords? — Instantnood 10:12, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * Did I agree to it?--Huaiwei 10:13, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Hiya Huaiwei (In fact Huaiwei is your name, or Wei is your name :-D )! Asking for your advice: do you think the Cantonese terms category could be a subcat of the Mandarin one? -- Jerry Crimson Mann 15:22, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Walao....got a surname called "huai" meh? If there is, I hadent heard of it. :D Huaiwei is my "first name" lah. ;) As for the above, No I dont think it should be a subcat of "Mandarin" terms, but it can be one under "Chinese" terms. Why do you ask that?--Huaiwei 15:26, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, just wanna know more about the work-out of the categorization system in here. In fact, what's the difference between a subcat and "under a category"? -- Jerry Crimson Mann 15:29, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok. Hmm...I personally use both terms interchageably, with the same meaning. It just means one category is a sub-category of another? :D--Huaiwei 15:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

 * If I remember correctly somebody tried to demonstrate it was pointless to have categories for Mandarin and Cantonese terms, and categorised plenty of articles to category:Mandarin terms to try to demonstrate it's not possible. — Instantnood 15:31, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * And your point being?--Huaiwei 15:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Just to let Jerry know what had been happening. :-) — Instantnood 15:56, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * And may I know how should this be helpful information to him? ;)--Huaiwei 16:02, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't you think it's necessary to let him know that somebody's position has changed? That person once opposed having categories for Mandarin and Cantonese terms, and has edited to support his position. But now the same person agrees with having these categories as subcategories of Chinese terms. — Instantnood 16:14, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Huaiwei, would you mind explaining exactly what you do and do not consider to be terms? You've been removing food from the list of terms, arguing that food names aren't terms, but from your edits, it seems that you were the ones who added many of them in the first place.     Being that most of us aren't psychic and aren't sensitive to your thought processes, mind telling your reasons for inclusion in the first place, and then the subsequent deletions? --Yuje 16:23, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * I have the intentions of removing all the "XXX terms" categories and replacing them with "XXX words", "XXX phrases", "XXX loanwords", and etc.--Huaiwei 16:27, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 * If that's really your intention you should have done the same with all the categories alike, e.g. category:Japanese terms. You should not have removed the articles from these categories until the categories are split. — Instantnood 16:33, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
 * The simple reason why I did it to the Chinese one first, was because I am obviously far more familiar with this language. And I nominated the Korean one, because it already stood out as an oddity. And of coz, another practical reason is that there are far less terms to manage with these smaller cats. Once they are deemed feasible, it is only natural that category:Japanese terms be broken down into manageable categories too.--Huaiwei 16:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Huaiwei/Archive F


text:
Talk:Tom Green (polygamist)

Linda Kunz's date of birth
An anonymous user just changed Linda Kunz's date of birth to 1972. I changed it back because her date of birth is 1973, according to her birth certificate, her child's birth certificate was 1986. --Kewp (t) 12:07, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Linda Kunz was born in 1972, that link says it was a 1973 birth certificate but does not state that that was the year on the certificate. I happen to know that she was born in 1972 because I have been in close relationship to her for many years. i am going to verify that she was born 1972. i hapen to be one of her relatives. and shame on the person who thinks it was 1973, because that would mean she got married at 12 not 13 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.50.47.230 (talk) 15:46, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Proposed move
This person is most commonly known by the name "Tom Green". I propose a move to Tom Green (polygamist) or Tom Green (Mormon fundamentalist). Before proceeding I'll wait a few days for "votes" on if to move it, and where. –SESmith 07:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree, and "polygamist" is better for three reasons: (1) Latter-day Saints tend to resent the expression "Mormon fundamentalist" and may someday convince the world not to use it; (2) Tom Green is controversial enough that he makes most Mormon fundamentalists cringe and disassociate with him; and, most importantly, (3) "polygamist" is the term that the press most often uses in headlines about him. Cool Hand Luke 08:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above, use Tom Green (polygamist). Bearian 13:44, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Those reasons sound convincing to me. I'll move the page. –SESmith 10:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

child rape
Was he convicted of "child rape" or statutory "child rape"? Because the rape charge appears based on age and the "victim" refused to testafy or press charges. Are you ready for IPv6? (talk) 00:17, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

 * The sources I'm looking at from the article (e.g., CNN article on his release) just say he was convicted of "child rape". I don't know for sure, but it's possible that Utah law doesn't draw a distinction between child rape and statutory child rape. Some jurisdictions don't have two separate crimes. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:19, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I appreciate your insight. Also thank you for the speedy reply.  This article was small and talk page didn't seem watched so I thought maybe no one would answer.  Maybe the edit summary "child rape" made someone look.  Tom Green married her when he was 13 it looks and well I have a vague recollection that statutory rape sometimes is 14-17 and  below 14 is considered "child". Are you ready for IPv6? (talk) 01:28, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

 * I do watch the page. What you say may be so. Perhaps they just draw the line under 14 and say it can never be statutory if it is a "child". To make sure, it may require finding a more detailed source on his conviction. Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:38, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Mr. Green was convicted of "Rape of a Child", a First Degree Felony in Utah. Anyone under 14-years-old is considered a "child" in Utah, and therefor unable to consent to sex (even through marriage), thus the "rape." At the time of his conviction, this charge brought a sentence of six-, ten-, or fifteen-years-to-life. Green served the minimum, six years.GreenGlass1972 (talk) 02:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

 * My research is turning up something slightly different but arriving at the same place. 13- and 14-year olds are both considered "children". Female "children" in Utah can consent to sex if they are (1) married or (2) at least 16 years old, whether the sex occurs inside or outside of marriage. However, no one under age 14 can be married under Utah law. Thus, there was no valid marriage, and so the sex was extra-marital and therefore legally non-consensual because the female was not at least 16 years old. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:44, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

 * You can view the statute online at www.le.state.ut.us/~code/code.htm . It's 76-5-402.1. Rape of a child. A 14-year-old can consent to sex if they are married, which is why Green wasn't charged for having sex with his other wives, several of whom he married when they were 14. He married Linda in Mexico when she was 13, and later in Utah when she was 14. Her first child was conceived while she was 13, and that was the crux of the prosecution's case. He also wasn't charged for fathering other children he had with Linda once she was 14.GreenGlass1972 (talk) 03:21, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the link; very helpful. Do you know of any sources that explicitly refer to Green's prosecution under this section of the code? I suppose they say "child rape", so we can assume the section being used is "rape of a child" in the code, but I'm wondering if there is some more technical secondary source out there that might mention the code number (in a publication targeted to lawyers, for instance). Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:37, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I looked but can't find any good links. My knowledge comes first-hand (Green is a friend of mine, we've discussed the case many times and I'm very familiar with it), so unfortunately I have nothing "Cite-able". I'll keep looking, however.GreenGlass1972 (talk) 03:50, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Tom Green (polygamist)


text:
Shearing interferometer

The shearing interferometer is an extremely simple means to observe interference and to use this phenomenon to test the collimation of light beams, especially from laser sources which have a coherence length which is usually significantly longer than the thickness of the shear plate (see graphics) so that the basic condition for interference is fulfilled.

Function
The testing device consists of a high-quality optical glass, like N-BK7, with extremely flat optical surfaces that are usually at a slight angle to each other. When a plane wave is incident at an angle of 45°, which gives maximum sensitivity, it is reflected two times. The two reflections are laterally separated due to the finite thickness of the plate and by the wedge. This separation is referred to as the shear and has given the instrument its name. The shear can also be produced by gratings.

Parallel-sided shear plates are sometimes used, but the interpretation of the interference fringes of wedged plates is relatively easy and straightforward. Wedged shear plates produce a graded path difference between the front and back surface reflections; as a consequence, a parallel beam of light produces a linear fringe pattern within the overlap.

With a plane wavefront incident, the overlap of the two reflected beams shows interference fringes with a spacing of $$d_f = \frac{\lambda}{2 n \theta}$$, where $$d_f$$ is the spacing perpendicular to shear, $$\lambda$$ is the wavelength of the beam, n the refractive index, and $$\theta$$ the wedge angle. This equation makes the simplification that the distance from the wedged shear plate to the observation plane is small relative to the wavefront radius of curvature at the observation plane. The fringes are equally spaced and will be exactly perpendicular to the wedge orientation and parallel to a usually present wire cursor aligned along the beam axis in the shearing interferometer. The orientation of the fringes varies when the beam is not perfectly collimated. In the case of a noncollimated beam incident on a wedged shear plate, the path difference between the two reflected wavefronts is increased or decreased from the case of perfect collimation depending on the sign of the curvature. The pattern is then rotated and the beam's wavefront radius of curvature $$R$$ can be calculated: $$R = -\frac{s \cdot d_f}{\lambda \tan \gamma}$$, with $$s$$ the shear distance, $$d_f$$ the fringe distance, $$\lambda$$ the wavelength and $$\gamma$$ the angular deviation of the fringe alignment from that of perfect collimation. If the spacing normal to the fringes is used instead, this equation becomes $$R = -\frac{s \cdot k_f}{\lambda \sin \gamma}$$, where $$k_f$$ is the fringe spacing normal to the fringes.

title: Shearing interferometer


text:
Trading blows

Trading blows  or trading licks is an endurance test in which the participants (usually two boys or young men) take turns, alternating between administering a blow to an opponent and assuming the agreed exposed position (e.g. bending over an object or grabbing the ankles) to endure the next one, using the same implement (e.g. a fraternity paddle), until only the winner can still bring himself to endure the gradually increasing pain in the progressively tormented target part of their anatomy (usually the posterior, in which case it is a form of spanking or the cheeks), which in the interest of fairness should be covered by a common uniform. This can be anything from regular jeans or pants, underwear, and finally, bared (naked) buttocks. As the blows are not given by the same person but by the parties themselves, the strongest-armed one actually has an unfair (but not always decisive) physical advantage.

Such rather macho displays of willpower, restraining the instinct to avoid pain, can serve various purposes, including:
 * a physical punishment, especially for quarreling, possibly the origin of the practice (this ritualized alternative to a more disabling or even lethal duel should also make its participants realize the futility of physical aggression)
 * a motivation test, especially as part of an initiation process, such as hazing
 * an obedience test, as in certain paddle games (possibly really an excuse for the rather sadistic amusement of the seniors)
 * a duel, either personal or as champions representing similar, especially rivaling, groups; in certain fraternities, refusing such a challenge may result in exclusion from the membership, even for an alumnus
 * as a game, either to 'proudly' display one's tenacity (often to impress some audience) or in the pursuit of a sadist and/or masochistic, erotic or pain-addicted, kick.
 * as a sexual fetish

Another game with the same name is often played among boys or young men, where two people agree on a place to hit the other (e.g. the shoulder or chest) and the two take turns trading punches until one person cannot stand the pain any longer. The first person to give up is the loser.

title: Trading blows


text:
Sometimes You Can't Make It on Your Own

"Sometimes You Can't Make It on Your Own" is a song by Irish rock band U2. It is the third track on their eleventh studio album, How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb (2004), and was released as the album's second single worldwide except in North America on 7 February 2005. Originally titled "Tough", the song is lyrically about the relationship between the band's lead vocalist Bono and his father Bob Hewson, who died of cancer in 2001.

It debuted at number one on the UK Singles Chart becoming the band's sixth number-one single in the United Kingdom. It also topped the charts in Canada, Scotland and Spain, and reached the top 10 in Denmark, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands and Norway. The song won two Grammy Awards at the 48th Annual Grammy Awards ceremony in 2006: Best Rock Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocal and Song of the Year.

Background and writing
Lead vocalist Bono and guitarist the Edge first began working on the song during U2's 1997–1998 PopMart Tour. During the recording of U2's 2000 album All That You Can't Leave Behind, Bono was aware that his father, Bob Hewson, was in the terminal stages of a bout with cancer. At that point, the song had the working title of "Tough", as that was the impression Bono always had of his father; he called him: "A tough old boot of a guy. Irish, Dub, north side Dubliner, very cynical about the world and the people in it, but very charming and funny with it." The Edge said that when the band played the song together, "it was a bit cloying". Bassist Adam Clayton said the song in its original form "had a very traditional feel", and that the group spent extensive time trying to change "the harmonic content" while still "retaining the strong melodies". The band subsequently decided not to release the song on All That You Can't Leave Behind. After Bob died in 2001, Bono sang a version of the song at his funeral.

During the recording of U2's following album How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb, they revisited the song. The group continued to struggle with it, as the Edge felt the chord sequence was too obvious. Producer Daniel Lanois aided the band with the beginning of the song. At Bono's suggestion, the bass in the verses was dropped a tone before the relative minor, a change the band believed had been a breakthrough. After what Clayton estimated to be about the third or fourth rewrite of the song, producer Steve Lillywhite listened to it with Bono and the Edge. He critiqued the track, telling them that it did not have a chorus and that each verse simply was followed by the line "sometimes you can't make it on your own". Lillywhite thought that the track needed "a bridge to lift it to the chorus line". Bono then asked for a guitar to play and spontaneously, in falsetto, sang the lines "And it's you when I look na na na na / And it's you du du du du du du du / Sometimes you can't make it on your own". Even though Bono had not yet written the rest of the lyrics for this new segment, Lillywhite said: "all of a sudden the song was finished. That song had been around for the best part of five years and no one had ever said to them that it didn't have a chorus." Bono recorded his vocals in a single take during a visit by Interscope Records chairman Jimmy Iovine to the studio.

Release
"Sometimes You Can't Make It on Your Own" was released in the United Kingdom on 7 February 2005 and in Australia the following week. In the former country, the song was added to BBC Radio 1's C-list playlist on 29 December 2004. It moved to the B-list a week later and to the A-list a week after that. In the United States, the song was added to several radio formats between February and March. In Canada, the song was released on 22 March 2005, a month after "All Because of You" was issued there.

Chart performance
The song debuted at number one in the UK, marking the first time that a U2 album has produced two UK number 1 hits (following "Vertigo" in November 2004).

The single was also the third release in the United States. It reached number 15 on the Adult Top 40 chart, and number 29 on the Modern Rock Tracks chart in April 2005. It also reached number 97 on the Billboard Hot 100.

title: Sometimes You Can't Make It on Your Own


text:
Tahir Salahov

Tahir Salahov (Azerbaijani, in full: Tahir Teymur oğlu Salahov, Таир Теймур Салахов; 29 November 1928 – 21 May 2021) was a Soviet, Azerbaijani painter and draughtsman. He was First Secretary of the Artists' Union of the USSR (1973–1992), Vice-President of the Russian Academy of Arts, member of over 20 academies and other creative organizations throughout the world, including academies of art of France, Spain, Germany, and Austria. He was awarded the honorary titles People's Artist of the USSR (1973), and People's Artist of the Azerbaijan SSR.

Biography
Salahov was born in Baku. His father Teymur Salahov was a victim of Stalin's repressions, having been arrested in 1937 and executed shortly after. His mother Sona was left to bring up four children on her own but the family did not learn of their father's death until 1956 after Stalin's death.

Tahir Salahov studied at the Azimzade Art College in Baku in 1945–1950 and the Surikov Moscow Art Institute in 1951–1957. Salahov won an early recognition: his diploma work, The Shift is Over, was exhibited in 1957 at the Moscow All-Union Art Exhibition and received public and critical acclaim. He became one of the leading representatives of the so-called "severe style" (Russian: "суровый стиль"), a trend in Soviet art of the 1960s that aimed to set off a hard, publicist, realist view against the ceremonial "polished reality" of the Joseph Stalin era. Salahov's compositions on the life and work of the Baku oil-workers (e.g. "Repair Men", 1961, Mustafayev Azerbaijan State Museum of Art, Baku) and portraits, e.g., his portrait of Azerbaijani composer Gara Garayev (1960, Tretyakov Gallery, Moscow), and Soviet composer Dmitri Shostakovich (1976, Tretyakov Gallery, Moscow), are characterized by a forcefulness and lack of idealization. Salahov chose a sparing palette of contrasting red, black, light- and dark-grey tones and gave colored plains a decorative function.

His later works are more peaceful and lyrically contemplative, and Eastern influences are more apparent, as in Portrait of Grandson Dan (1983, Azerbaijan State Museum of Art), in which the composition and colouring are subordinate to the flowing rhythms of Eastern medieval miniatures. His lines became smoother and more melodious, his palette more sophisticated. Many of his most successful works are associated with his impressions of foreign countries (e.g., Mexican Corrida; 1969, Mustafayev Azerbaijan State Museum of Art). He also produced expressive drawings and stage designs. In 1998, Salahov was appointed an Academician of the National Academy of Arts of the Kyrgyz Republic, alongside fellow artists Durdy Bayramov, Suhrob Kurbanov, Turgunbai Sadykov, and Erbolat Tolepbai.

Awards

 * Hero of Socialist Labour (1989)
 * Orden for Service II.png Order "For Merit to the Fatherland", 2nd class (2003)
 * Orden for Service III.png Order "For Merit to the Fatherland", 3rd class (1998)
 * Order of Lenin ribbon bar.png Order of Lenin (1989)
 * Order october revolution rib.png Order of the October Revolution (1976)
 * Orderredbannerlabor rib.png Order of the Red Banner of Labour (1971)
 * Order friendship of peoples rib.png Order of Friendship of Peoples (1982)
 * People Artist of the USSR1.jpg People's Artist of the USSR (visual arts) (1973)
 * State Prize Soviet Union.JPG USSR State Prize (1968 – for the portrait of composer Gara Garayev)

title: Tahir Salahov


text:
Talk:Politechnika Warszawska PW-5

I suggested the page title for this and the PW-6 be changed to "Politechniki Warszawskiej PW-5" and "Politechniki Warszawskiej PW-6". PZL is not the design originator, only manufactures the type under license. Please have also a look at the PZL Wiki article to appreciate how the designation PZL PW-5 would look out of context there. They make a lot of other designs under license, too, keeping the originators type designator.Francisco de Almeida 12:08, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Hello! The name of the article is incorrect, because "Politechniki Warszawskiej" is genitive case from "Politechnika Warszawska", so the correct name should be maybe "Politechnika Warszawska PW-5". I'm a polish native speaker and "Politechniki Warszawskiej PW-6" sounds for me really strange. Amstell.

The several edits made in 2008.03.18 by 202.161.43.233 are in my opinion detrimental to the article: - they violate the NPOV (neutral point of view) policy of Wikipedia and constitute, in fact, advertising. - they delete all negative comment about the performance and handling of the aircraft and about the decline of interest in the type and class. - the level of detail given to the proceedings of the IGC design competition is out of place in this article (could merit a separate, well written article). - several statements introduced are debateable. - the comparison between the PW-6 and other two seaters is out of place (this article is about the PW-5), cronologically incorrect (uses the future tense for developments that have already occurred), and has unreasonable or false statements.

In view of these failings, I will revert sections of these edits within a few days if no improvement to the above points is forthcoming. Regards, Francisco de Almeida (talk) 11:44, 20 March 2008 (UTC).

External links modified (January 2018)
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title: Talk:Politechnika Warszawska PW-5


text:
Talk:Eleonora's falcon

Wrong image
The image that illustrates the species (Falco eleonorae) is not correct. That bird is, to my knowledge, a Common Kestrel (Falco tinnunculus). 89.155.163.123 (talk) 08:37, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I concur. I have removed the image, though don't have a replacement unfortunately. Arpz (talk) 18:22, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Eleonora's falcon


text:
End of the Line (Traveling Wilburys song)

"End of the Line" is a song by the British-American supergroup the Traveling Wilburys. It was the final track on their debut album Traveling Wilburys Vol. 1, released in October 1988. It was also issued in January 1989 as the band's second single. The recording features all the Wilburys except Bob Dylan as lead singers; George Harrison, Jeff Lynne and Roy Orbison sing the choruses in turn, while Tom Petty sings the verses. The song was mainly written by Harrison and was assigned to his publishing company, Umlaut Corporation. However, all five members of the group received a songwriting credit in keeping with the collaborative concept behind the Wilburys project.

In the United States, the single peaked at No. 63 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart and at No. 2 on the Album Rock Tracks chart, blocked from the top spot by both "Driven Out" by The Fixx and "Working on It" by Chris Rea. In the United Kingdom, the single peaked at No. 52 on the UK Singles Chart.

Music video
The music video for "End of the Line" was directed by Willy Smax and filmed in Los Angeles in December 1988. Set in a moving passenger car (carriage) pulled by a steam locomotive, it features Dylan playing guitar and session musician Jim Keltner (credited as Buster Sidebury on the albums) playing brushes. As Orbison died after recording his vocals but before the video was shot, a shot of a guitar sitting in a rocking chair and a photo of him are shown when his vocals are heard.

Legacy
The song was used over the end credits of the final episode of the British sitcom One Foot in the Grave and the American comedy Parks and Recreation.

A cover version sung by Dennis Waterman was used as the theme for two episodes of the BBC series New Tricks, then replaced by a close pastiche.

"End of the Line" appeared in the George Harrison-produced cult comedy Checking Out.

The song has also been included in TV spots for the 2004 film The Terminal, as well as the trailer for the 2007 hit comedy Knocked Up.

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers played this song live during their 2008 North American tour.

Harrison was honoured in the parody song "No Where Near the End of My Time" by radio on-air personality Bob Rivers.

The song was used on the end credits of the 2016 Australian family comedy film Red Dog: True Blue and for an episode of HBO's Crashing in 2018.

It was also used in the trailer for the 2023 Tom Hanks movie, A Man Called Otto.

Track listing
7" single, cassette single
 * A "End of the Line" (LP version) – 3:30
 * B "Congratulations" (LP version) – 3:30

12" single, 3" CD single
 * A "End of the Line" (extended version) – 5:34
 * B "Congratulations" (LP version) – 3:29

Personnel

 * George Harrison – lead vocals (1st, 4th, and 7th choruses), acoustic guitar, slide guitar, backing vocals
 * Tom Petty – lead vocals (verses), acoustic guitar, backing vocals
 * Jeff Lynne – lead vocals (2nd, 5th, and 6th choruses), electric guitar, bass guitar, backing vocals
 * Roy Orbison – lead vocals (3rd chorus), acoustic guitar, backing vocals
 * Bob Dylan – acoustic guitar, backing vocals
 * Jim Keltner – drums


text:
Dinas Cross

Dinas Cross (Dinas) is a village, a community and a former parish in Pembrokeshire, Wales. Located between Fishguard and Newport in the Pembrokeshire Coast National Park, it is a popular holiday destination on the A487 road. The two hamlets, Cwm-yr-Eglwys and Pwllgwaelod, are in the community. The community has an elected community council and until 2022 gave its name to an electoral ward of Pembrokeshire County Council which covered the communities of Dinas Cross, Cwm Gwaun and Puncheston.

History
The parish was in the Hundred of Cemais; as Dynas, it appeared on a 1578 parish map of Pembrokeshire.

In the early 19th century the parish had 741 inhabitants. At this time the walls of the parish church of St Brynach were washed by the sea at spring high tides. The parish extended from Dinas Head on Dinas Island into the Preseli Mountains and included several small settlements to the north and south of the turnpike from Fishguard to Newport, which is now the A487 road.

Governance
Dinas Cross has an elected community council. An electoral ward of the same name exists which includes the communities of Dinas Cross, Cwm Gwaun and Puncheston and had a population of 1,696 in 2011.

Following the recommendations of a boundary review by the Local Government Boundary Commission for Wales, effective from the 2022 local elections, the Dinas Cross county ward was merged with the neighbouring community of Newport to create a new ward of 'Newport and Dinas', electing one county councillor. The communities of Cwm Gwaun and Puncheston formed, together with Scleddau, a new ward of Bro Gwaun.

Amenities
Dinas has four pubs: The Country Club, The Ship Aground, The Freemasons Arms and The Old Sailors. At one time there was also a cafe, a school, Rhoshelyg garden centre, a garage, a petrol station, a full-time post office, two shops and a local blacksmith. Now the old school is a Community hall (Yr Hen Ysgol), the post office is part-time, and two shops, garage, petrol station and a chip shop remain, as well as the local blacksmith, now 5th generation.

Worship
The church in Dinas was founded by St Brynach, in the 5th or early 6th century.

Dinas has two chapels: Tabor (a Baptist Chapel) and Gideon (an Independent Chapel). Ramah, a disused Methodist Chapel is on the way to Pwllgwaelod beach.

Places of interest

 * Cwm-yr-Eglwys – the church of St Brynach the Abbot, the original parish church of Dinas, perhaps dating back to before the Norman Conquest, is situated on the picturesque beach of Cwm-yr-Eglwys. The chancel of the church was washed away in 1850, and the roof and north wall were destroyed during the Royal Charter Storm in 1859. In 1880,the walls were demolished and the church reduced to the present west end wall only, to allow a defensive seawall to be built. A replacement church was  built 1860–61 higher up in the village.
 * Dinas Island – A small peninsula, a popular walk and an old farm. The Pembrokeshire Coast Path passes by St. Brynach's church and around Dinas Island.
 * Hescwm Mill – an old mill now restored lying 200m inland of Hescwm cove. It is a Grade II* listed building.
 * Brynhenllan Chapel, a Grade II* listed building.
 * Pencnwc Farm was the birthplace of Sgt. William Batine James who, having emigrated to America in 1871 and joined the US Army in 1872, was the only Welshman to die at the Battle of the Little Bighorn in 1876. He was in Company E of the 7th Cavalry.

title: Dinas Cross


text:
Tommy Murphy Cup

The Tommy Murphy Cup was a Gaelic football competition, featuring senior county teams eliminated from the early stages of the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship and also Kilkenny when not fielding a team in the main All-Ireland. The series of games, organised by the Gaelic Athletic Association, were played during the summer months with the final being played in August at Croke Park. The Cup was named after Tommy Murphy, a footballer from County Laois who was, appropriately for the competition, the only member of the Team of the Millennium from a county which had not won an All-Ireland.

Later changes to the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship meant that the 2008 Tommy Murphy Cup featured the eight lowest-ranking teams in National Football League, unless the teams reached the final of their respective provincial championships. Antrim beat holders Wicklow in the final. The cup was cancelled after the 2008 tournament.

Format
The Tommy Murphy Cup is a single elimination tournament. Each team is afforded only one defeat before being eliminated from the championship. Pairings for matches are drawn at random and there is currently no seeding. Each match is played as a single leg. If a match is drawn there is a period of extra time, however, if both sides are still level at the end of extra time a replay takes place and so on until a winner is found.

Seasons in Tommy Murphy Cup
The number of years that each county has played in the Tommy Murphy Cup between 2004 and 2008. A total of 18 counties have competed in at least one season of the Tommy Murphy Cup. Antrim and London have participated in the most championships. The counties in bold participated in the 2008 Tommy Murphy Cup.

Legend

 * – Champions
 * – Runners-up
 * – Semi-Final
 * – Quarter-finals/Preliminary Round
 * AI – All-Ireland Senior Football Championship

For each year, the number of teams in each championship (in brackets) are shown.

All time table
Legend

Finishing positions

 * Most championships
 * 1, Colours_of_Clare.svg Clare (2004)
 * 1, Colours_of_Tipperary.svg Tipperary (2005)
 * 1, Colours_of_Louth.svg Louth (2006)
 * 1, Colours_of_Wicklow.svg Wicklow (2007)
 * 1, Colours_of_Antrim.svg Antrim (2008)

 * Most second-place finishes
 * 1, Colours_of_Sligo.svg Sligo (2004)
 * 1, Colours_of_Wexford.svg Wexford (2005)
 * 1, Colours_of_Leitrim.svg Leitrim (2006)
 * 1, Colours_of_Antrim.svg Antrim (2007)
 * 1, Colours_of_Wicklow.svg Wicklow (2008)

 * Most semi-final finishes
 * 2, Colours_of_Antrim.svg Antrim (2004, 2006)

 * Most quarter-final finishes
 * 4, Colours_of_London.svg London (2004, 2005, 2006, 2007)

 * Most preliminary round finishes
 * 4, Colours_of_Kilkenny.svg Kilkenny (2005, 2006, 2007, 2008)

Unbeaten sides

 * All 5 teams have won the Tommy Murphy Cup unbeaten:
 * Colours_of_Clare.svg Clare had 3 wins in 2004.
 * Colours_of_Tipperary.svg Tipperary had 4 wins in 2005.
 * Colours_of_Louth.svg Louth had 4 wins in 2006.
 * Colours_of_Wicklow.svg Wicklow had 3 wins in 2007.
 * Colours_of_Antrim.svg Antrim had 3 wins in 2008.

Beaten sides
The knockout format of the cup has resulted in 0 'back-door' Tommy Murphy Cup champions.

Final success rate
Only 3 counties have appeared in the final, being victorious on all occasions:

 * Colours_of_Clare.svg Clare (2004)
 * Colours_of_Tipperary.svg Tipperary (2005)
 * Colours_of_Louth.svg Louth (2006)

On the opposite end of the scale, only 3 counties has appeared in the final, losing on each occasion:

 * Colours_of_Sligo.svg Sligo (2004)
 * Colours_of_Wexford.svg Wexford (2005)
 * Colours_of_Leitrim.svg Leitrim (2006)

Consecutive participations

 * 5, Colours_of_Antrim.svg Antrim (2004–2008)
 * 5, Colours_of_London.svg London (2004–2008)

Antrim and London have the record number of consecutive participations in the Tommy Murphy Cup, taking part in all 5 seasons.

Winning other trophies
Although not an officially recognised achievement, one team has achieved the distinction of winning the Tommy Murphy Cup and their respective Division in the National Football League:

 * Colours_of_Louth.svg Louth in 2006 (Division 2).

Biggest wins

 * The most one sided finals:
 * 9 points – 2006: Louth 3-14 - 1-11 Leitrim
 * The most one sided matches:
 * 38 points – 2007: Kilkenny 1-00 - 3-32 Antrim

Scoring Events

 * Most goals in a match:
 * 00 – 0000: 000 vs 000
 * Most points in a match:
 * 00 – 0000: 000 vs 000
 * Most goals by one team in a match:
 * 00 – 0000: 000 vs 000
 * Most points by one team in a match:
 * 00 – 0000: 000 vs 000
 * Highest aggregate score:
 * 00 points – 0000: 000 vs 000
 * Lowest aggregate score:
 * 00 points – 0000: 000 vs 000

Successful defending
Some defending champions have a chance to retain their title. None have achieved this. These are:

 * Colours_of_Tipperary.svg Tipperary on 0 attempts out of 1 (2006)
 * Colours_of_Wicklow.svg Wicklow on 0 attempts out of 1 (2008)

Gaps

 * Longest gaps between successive Tommy Murphy Cup final appearances:
 * 1 year: Colours_of_Antrim.svg Antrim (2007–2008)
 * 1 year: Colours_of_Wicklow.svg Wicklow (2007–2008)
 * Longest gap between successive championship appearances
 * 4 years: Colours_of_Sligo.svg Sligo (2004–2008)

Provinces

 * The Tommy Murphy Cup final has never involved two teams from the same province.
 * The province providing the highest number of different winning teams is Leinster and Munster, with 2:
 * Leinster: Colours_of_Louth.svg Louth and Colours_of_Wicklow.svg Wicklow
 * Munster: Colours_of_Clare.svg Clare and Colours_of_Tipperary.svg Tipperary

Longest undefeated run
The record for the longest unbeaten run stands at 00 games held by 000 (0000–0000).

Miscellaneous

 * Best finish by a debuting team
 * Champions, Colours_of_Clare.svg Clare (2004)
 * Best finish by a debuting team (after 2004)
 * Champions, Colours_of_Tipperary.svg Tipperary (2005)
 * Highest winning record
 * 80%, Colours_of_Louth.svg Louth (4 wins in 5 matches)
 * Lowest winning record
 * 0%, Colours_of_Kilkenny.svg Kilkenny (0 wins in 4 matches)
 * 0%, Colours_of_Monaghan.svg Monaghan (0 wins in 1 match)
 * 0%, Colours_of_Offaly.svg Offaly (0 wins in 1 match)
 * Most played match
 * 00, 000 vs 000 (0000)

title: Tommy Murphy Cup


text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject Usability/Color Tabs

Proposal
As it currently stands, Wikipedia puts tabs to good use along the top of the page. A reader/editor can quickly access talk pages, edit/move/delete/view history etc.

But there is no easy access to browse around. A reader can visit Browse and move from there, but has no way to return to a Category other than the back arrow. And has no way at all to move between categories if there is no link on the currently viewed page. Relationships between parent and child categories are also not fully understood by most reader/editors.

I propose a line of color-coded tabs be placed along the left or right edge of the page. This will take up little space, and add much in the way of usability to Wikipedia.

Specifics

 * Tabs will be available for each main category.
 * Subcategories are hues of the parent category color.
 * Tabs move when selected, unselected move down, selected move to top, subcats arrive
 * Tabs may have text or Icons
 * Category pages have color highlights to enforce the color coding:
 * Line under PAGENAME will be color coded and background will be hued.

 * Other tabs can be available:
 * A-Z

Gallery of examples in paper
Most prominent example I've seen is inThe Firefly Five Language Visual Dictionary. It has different colors for each subject area, and a legend on the back cover. The exaple pictures on this site show a light blue tab on the side of the page.

Proposed color schemes
The following are examples only, and no particulare one should be thought of as the final version.

Picking a scheme
Things to keep in mind when deciding on a Color scheme:
 * Color theory - a set of basic rules for mixing color to achieve a desired result. In this case the desired result is to have each category relate logically to the color (but given a long enough time people will adjust to any scheme) and have the colors pleasing to the eye.
 * Color psychology - a field of study devoted to analyzing the effect of color on human behavior and feeling

Version 1
Culture

Geography

History

Math

People

Science

 * Pros- easy on the eyes
 * Cons - less variety (more main categories than colors)

Version 2
Pale, pleasant colors for categories, a darker hue of same color color for subcategories, for visual continuity that will assist in developing a navigational idiom.

If tabs will feature text, black text can be used for categories and white text for subcategories, for legibility:

Tab examples

 * Tab example with text

 * Tab examples with text and icons

or

or icon before caption

Vertical tab example
Sample of a vertical tab, that is displayed at the left of the page.

Some place eholder text follows so the effect can be appreciated.

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Other schemes?
If these don't work perhaps a pre-arranged palette can be chosen from Colorlovers.com

Proposed Icons
These are just a sample. The rest are at commons:Category:Icons. For an example in use see: fr:Portail:Géographie. Or Good_articles.

To Do

 * Write a semi-coherent proposal
 * Post at Wikipedia:Wikiproject Usability for comments.
 * Enlist help (developers, writers).
 * Post at other appropriate spots.

Related lnks

 * List of colors
 * Web colors
 * Crayola
 * X11 color names
 * MediaWiki talk:Common.css
 * Village pump (proposals)
 * Category:Wikipedia proposals
 * Requests for comment
 * Requests for comment/Style issues
 * Requests for comment/Policies
 * Community Portal


text: Category:Wikipedians by alma mater: Sheridan College